"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022259a5e2f1cad4b92bd7ebe539b0ec925\u0022\u003ETuesday, 15 May 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dcd15fe842e74d52becbe4e1ab5ed793\u0022\u003ETuesday, 15 May 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7e854219c364134b39e780b9a59ee7a\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225209b679267b4bccb6beabea22dcf4e3\u0022\u003EBougainville, Autonomous Region\u2014Speaker of the House of Representatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00221eac2da1e8a2497fa829c907637bdbd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221eac2da1e8a2497fa829c907637bdbd4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have much pleasure in informing members that the Hon Nick Peniai, Speaker of the House of Representatives of the Autonomous Region of Bougainville, accompanied by the Deputy Speaker, is within the precincts of this Chamber. I am sure that members would wish he be welcomed and accorded a seat to the left of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EHon Nick Peniai, accompanied by the Deputy Speaker, entered the Chamber and took a seat on the left of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226848e3f8217b4eb8bdb6c66153fdf1c8\u0022\u003E Obituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b138597139ad4b9a87939616cb5685ef\u0022\u003EHis Highness Malietoa Tanumafili II\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002205a102fab13c4e5292b377ea33e19729\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205a102fab13c4e5292b377ea33e19729\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: I move, That this House notes with sadness the death of His Highness Malietoa Tanumafili II, Head of State of the Independent State of Samoa, that it extends its condolences to his family and the people of Samoa at this time, and looks forward to continuing good relations with Samoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EHis Highness Malietoa Tanumafili was elected to the Malietoa title in 1940, and has been one of Samoa\u2019s four tama-a-aiga\u2014paramount chiefs\u2014since that time. His career of service to his people began in 1940 as one of the two fautua\u2014leading high chiefs\u2014who served as the official Samoan advisers to the successive New Zealand administrators, and then as a member of the pre-independence Council of State in 1949. He played a leading role in guiding his country to independence in 1962, and on independence he assumed the office of head of State jointly with Tupua Tamasese Mea\u2019ola. On the death of Tupua Tamasese in 1963, Malietoa Tanumafili became the sole head of State for life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284ba5126a55c40e9845b7352c539095d\u0022\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000014\u0022\u003EThroughout his long reign as head of State, His Highness represented Samoa with wisdom, humour, and insight. He defined his post through gracious dignity and sincere warmth of character. He was a man of great humility and a nationalist. He was immensely proud of his country, but an intelligent leader and well aware of the need to offer a guiding hand rather than an oppressive one. He was regarded as the traditional father of both Samoas\u2014not only independent Samoa but also the United States territory of American Samoa. He was regarded throughout the region as an excellent role model and an outstanding leader. Malietoa Tanumafili II was deeply respected throughout his life for the great service he carried out for his people in Samoa. He will be greatly missed\u2014not only within Samoa but here in New Zealand and in the wider Pacific region. E ua malie toa! E ua malie tau!\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00229fa3e6797bc446c391c92d410667b2e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fa3e6797bc446c391c92d410667b2e0\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party wholeheartedly supports this resolution and pays tribute to His Highness Malietoa Tanumafili II, the father of Samoa. Malietoa Tanumafili, as the head of State of Samoa, played a very special role in the bond that ties our two countries. At the time of his death at age 94 he was the world\u2019s longest-serving head of State. His links with New Zealand mirror his nation\u2019s links to New Zealand, and his special attachment to New Zealand mirrors Samoa\u2019s special attachment to this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EHe was educated in New Zealand at St Stephen\u2019s College in Auckland and at Wesley College in Pukekohe. Like many of his people who are now one of the essential ingredients that make up the people called Kiwis, he made a special contribution to this country. He visited New Zealand many times, including at the invitation of the late M\u0101ori Queen, Dame Te Atairangikaahu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EBut Malietoa Tanumafili was not just a figurehead to his people; he also provided them with real leadership. He is credited with preserving Samoa\u2019s stability when some of its newly independent Pacific neighbours were suffering violence and unrest. Through those testing times he provided calm and strength. For that, his people will be eternally grateful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ETo the Samoan people in Samoa, and to the Samoan people who have made New Zealand their home, we extend our deepest condolences at his passing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9b38dece8af4f1584b070974477c7a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9b38dece8af4f1584b070974477c7a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The death of His Highness Malietoa Tanumafili II last Friday night is indeed an event of great sadness not only in Samoa but here in New Zealand and the wider Pacific region. His Highness was a great and valued friend of New Zealand. As has been said, his secondary education was in New Zealand. He was well known to successive New Zealand Governments, both as an official Samoan adviser and in the important role he played in leading his country to independence in 1962. It is significant that New Zealand has a treaty of friendship with only one country, Samoa, and our shared unique relationship is due in no small part to Malietoa Tanumafili\u2019s influence as a founding father of modern Samoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EHis Highness was one of the world\u2019s longest-serving heads of State, and one of the most respected and admired statesmen of the South Pacific region. He has always been held in the greatest respect in Samoan society, as well as within New Zealand and the wider Pacific region. New Zealand First joins the Deputy Prime Minister and other members of this House in offering our sincere condolences and sympathies to the people of Samoa at the great loss of their esteemed head of State, His Highness Malietoa Tanumafili II.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00223707ab33fb5041589e2659361fe2ee5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223707ab33fb5041589e2659361fe2ee5b\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party fully endorses the comments made by Dr Cullen, Mr Key, and Mr Peters, in mourning the death of His Highness Malietoa Tanumafili, the revered head of State of Samoa. It reminds us of the very close relationship\u2014the warmth and friendship\u2014that New Zealand has with the Samoan people. We extend to the people in Samoa and to the Samoan community in New Zealand our greatest sympathy, and we stand with them on this day. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee625212901d4ca8a28ddb445d6bbe38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee625212901d4ca8a28ddb445d6bbe38\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E Kai te Rangatira kaiwhiriwhiri o t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare nei huri noa ki ng\u0101 kai\u0101rahi o ng\u0101 p\u0101ti, me ng\u0101 mema katoa o te Whare P\u0101remata, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[To you Madam Speaker, adjudicator of this House of ours, and party leaders and all members of Parliament, greetings to you all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ESusuga Malietoa Tanumafili was born in 1913, and at the young age of 26 he inherited the title of Malietoa on the death of his father. In 1962, when Samoa gained its independence, he was made joint head of State, along with Tupua Tamasese Mea\u2019ole. Unfortunately, Tamasese died the following year, but from that time right until this week Malietoa Tanumafili remained head of State or O le Ao o le Malo\u2014king\u2014of Samoa. It has already been said that he was long serving. In fact, he was the longest-serving monarch ever. He was ahead of Queen Elizabeth II and the King of Thailand in the length of time spent as head of State. Therefore, it is fitting that we here in Aotearoa should join the people of Samoa, and the Samoans in New Zealand, in mourning this king. He was educated in New Zealand at St Stephen\u2019s College and Wesley College.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira, kai te ariki, takoto i te waka whakamutunga. N\u0101u te karanga, \u0101kuanei ka tae atu m\u0101tou ki a koe. Kai te ariki, kai te tipua, kai te rangatira, takoto i te waka whakamutunga kia \u016Bhia ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kai runga i a koe. Ka tae atu m\u0101tou ki te mau atu ki a koe ng\u0101 taonga m\u014D koutou te mate, ar\u0101, ko ng\u0101 roimata me ng\u0101 h\u016Bpe kia ringihia kai runga i a koe N\u0101 reira i te mutunga ake, haere i t\u014D waka, ki \u014D t\u012Bpuna m\u0101tua, n\u0101 ki t\u014D p\u0101pa, \u0101, ki a r\u0101tou. Haere ki te k\u0101punipunitanga o ng\u0101 wairua, ki te pae \u014D mahara, okioki pai mai. Kai te rangatira, kai te ariki, haere, haere, haere atu r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[And so the monarch, lie there in the vessel of finality. Yours is the call, and in time we will come to you. Oh monarch, celestial being, and chief of all chiefs, rest there in the vessel of finality to be enveloped by tributes to you. We will come and bring with us treasures for you, the departed, in the form of tears and mucus to shed upon you. And so at the end of it all, depart in your vessel to your ancestors, your father and others. Go to the gathering place of the spirits, to the horizon of memories; rest there well. So to the chief of all chiefs, the monarch, depart, depart, farewell.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00220a2a6f3c13cb4640a61010732d3aeb78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a2a6f3c13cb4640a61010732d3aeb78\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E United Future joins with other members in expressing our condolences to the family and people of Samoa on the death of His Highness Malietoa Tanumafili II, the revered long-serving head of State of that country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EOther members have spoken about Malietoa\u2019s length of service. I want to put another context to it. This man is an extraordinary link with all of Samoa\u2019s contemporary history. When we consider that he is the descendant of one of four main princely families, that he succeeded to the title Malietoa in 1940, and that he became a head of State jointly in 1962 and the sole head of State a year later, we see that that period of time really reflects the total modern development of Samoa post the German colonial experience. I think the loss for his people is not just the loss of a revered, respected, and deeply loved leader but a loss of that continuity of history. The challenge for Malietoa\u2019s successor, whoever that may be, will be to bring those strands back together. So our thoughts are very much with the members of his family at their time of grief, but also of the people whom he loved so much, who will be contemplating, literally, life after Malietoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWe stand by the people of Samoa in their moment of grief. We wish them well for the future and we salute a great leader, who has left us and them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f49cca11c75849529dad2ed3925fb0d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f49cca11c75849529dad2ed3925fb0d4\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The ACT party rises with the entire New Zealand Parliament to send this Parliament\u2019s condolences to the people of Samoa and to the family of His Highness Malietoa Tanumafili II. It is amazing to think that he took over as king\u2014as leader of his country\u2014at a time in our history that was the darkest days of World War II. That seems to us like a wholly different era from today. This man was king and has been king for all of that time. This is a sad time, but we should also celebrate what a tremendous life this man led, what he achieved in his life, and what the people of Samoa have achieved. I think that Malietoa can stand as an inspiration for all of us who feel as though we are just reaching our stride in our lives, too, because he shows that we can have a very, very long life and a very, very productive life indeed. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022 data-id=\u0022c93727d333234503b2b7e7e8b3d79836\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c93727d333234503b2b7e7e8b3d79836\u0022\u003ETAITO PHILLIP FIELD (Independent\u2014Mangere):\u003C/span\u003E I lau Afioga le Fonofetalai, Afio sui o tagata mauli o tagata fenua o Aotearoa. I le mamalu, male p\u00E4ia o le Maota nei. Oute tautala atu ma le agaga faanoanoa aua le \u201Ctuu malo\u201D, pe ole valaau p\u00E4ia a le Atua, i le, Ao mamalu, ole Malo o Samoa lona afioga mamalu ile tapaau Faasisina, e afio, i lona nofoa vaevaeloloa, i lona tala na atoatoa, ma lona fala folaloa, e faalogo iai Samoa, i le susuga i le Malietoa Tanumafili, le lua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E[Madam Speaker, representatives of tangata whenua of Aotearoa, to the dignitaries and representatives of this Parliament, I speak with a spirit of sadness in regard to the passing of Samoa\u2019s head of State Susuga Malietoa Tanumafili II.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EIt is indeed a sad time for all Samoans to hear of the passing of His Highness Susuga Malietoa Tanumafili II, head of State of Samoa. I pay tribute, as other colleagues have this afternoon, and honour to his life\u2019s work and to his memory and legacy. It is a proud legacy to add to his forefathers\u2019 and their ancestral history, from the Tongan era to receiving the gospel and the conversion of Samoans to Christianity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EMalietoa has served his people and his country well from before independence in 1962, and for 45 years as Samoa\u2019s head of State. He gave committed service with humility and dignity as the father of the nation, and he gained deep affection, love, and respect from his people, which helped to forge stability and harmony for 45 years in Samoa. He encouraged and took pride in the achievements of his people, both inside and outside Samoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the Samoan community in New Zealand, I extend our deepest sympathies and condolences to Susuga Malietoa\u2019s children and family and to Aiga Sa-Malietoa. Also, to the Council of Deputies, the Prime Minister and Cabinet, Parliament, and the people of Samoa, I ask that God may comfort them during this time of sadness. We give thanks, praise, and honour to God for Malietoa\u2019s life and service to the Government, nation, and the people of Samoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u201CUa pauu toa, ua maimau ai aupega o le taua.\u201D Ia pau se toa, ae tulai mai se toa aua Samoa ma lona malo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EIa manuia le malagi i le susuga i le Malietoa Tanumafili le lua. Faatofa, ma ia Soifua, i lau Afioga, i le Tapaau Faasisina, le tama ole t\u00E4tou Atunuu - Soifua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E[\u201CGreat warriors have fallen, effective weapons of war are wasted.\u201D A great warrior has fallen, another great warrior needs to stand for Samoa and its Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EAll the best for the journey of Malietoa Tanumafili II. Goodbye and farewell to Tapaau Faasisina, the father of the Samoan nation\u2014farewell.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u002227e0c44d0a3d4b60b691110afa955167\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227e0c44d0a3d4b60b691110afa955167\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask all members to stand and observe a moment\u2019s silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EHonourable members stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002275f9921d94c942818fb3b7fc272d0c62\u0022\u003E Standing Orders\u2014Sessional\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e45a75fa65a3470a97c2d2d3ce50bcb8\u0022\u003E Standing Orders\u2014Sessional\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002221b7eec7aa064192b5ae33f0fd02b01d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221b7eec7aa064192b5ae33f0fd02b01d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave, That, notwithstanding Standing Order 277(1), if\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Ewhenever the Clerk is to conduct a ballot under Standing Order 277(2), or \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E(ii) on a Wednesday on which Government orders of the day take precedence, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Eit appears that there will not be four orders of the day for the first readings of members\u2019 bills available for consideration at the next Wednesday\u2019s sitting at which members\u2019 orders of the day take precedence, the Clerk may accept notices for the introduction of members\u2019 bills so as to bring the number of orders available that day up to four. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EJust to explain that briefly, it will continue to the end of this parliamentary session the experimental procedure that we have followed over the last year or so to ensure that we do not have an unnecessarily low number of members\u2019 bills on the Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e40e25c165004e7282f51c811a88f2fe\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a9f14ef87f344cab4efbd24d81f78e8\u0022\u003EQuestions for Written Answer\u2014Overdue Replies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00223cde620187644d22978b27a424a97178\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cde620187644d22978b27a424a97178\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is an issue in relation to unanswered written questions, and I have raised this issue before. There are now 82 overdue questions that the Minister for Social Development and Employment needs to reply to me on. Fifty-six of those have since been answered with a non-answer, which simply stated that they would be responded to shortly. This matter is now becoming quite ridiculous. We have had weeks and weeks of this. I have written twice to the Leader of the House, and he has acknowledged that. I would ask you, Madam Speaker, whether you could do anything to assist with this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfcbeae8872e40279d0c7b0249172813\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfcbeae8872e40279d0c7b0249172813\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. Yes, I will be discussing the matter with the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f28c6c9875e147128573fd0790b5218a\u0022\u003E Questions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b7fdcae0dcb4b7e986f40b0f1939af9\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226c531abc9f9242b1a42cbdf3918b3a4c\u0022\u003EFinance, Minister\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220337b8022e4045dd9df0116d95bd5d4b\u0022\u003E1. JOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in the Minister of Finance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002208ac0d26a9984f22ac0f718eb3235533\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208ac0d26a9984f22ac0f718eb3235533\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a796a06364404e809e1fcf7c2357feeb\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the majority of New Zealanders who, according to the latest TV3 poll, want Michael Cullen to deliver a personal tax cut in this week\u2019s Budget, and if there are no personal tax cuts, want him sacked; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298a74c2948d94465a92e5421e3607d56\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No; I agree with the National Party spokesperson on finance that this is not the time for substantial personal tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1e5f29b9e8444c8ba6c8e4eab71d3b7\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister concerned that 44 percent of Labour\u2019s own voters want Dr Cullen sacked if he does not stump up with personal tax cuts in this week\u2019s Budget, while only 41 percent of voters want him to stay; and, if Labour\u2019s own supporters want Dr Cullen sacked\u2014let alone the rest of the country\u2014how long will it take her to come to that realisation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a1745ac518b45d09092b6df31fd70a8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member might do well to read the latest Australian opinion poll. Australians, by a large majority, said that the most important part of the Budget for them was tax cuts, and promptly increased the lead of Labor in the opinion polls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb19e4dbab5247dba727cbd7bce0aac3\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: If inflation concerns are the only reason Dr Cullen\u2019s Budget will not include personal tax cuts this year, why does she think Dr Cullen said yesterday that the election year Budget in 2008 will include personal tax cuts, even though he currently has no idea what the environment will be like then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d20a4d11bb47a996cd0fa7cf88eedd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: By sheer chance I happen to know what Dr Cullen actually said, which was that he hopes in next year\u2019s Budget to outline the Government\u2019s long-term plans in respect of personal taxation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022202d4400519149e2a0d7cb26c4f26c26\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: What is the magic that makes a tax cut under Labour a possibility in election year but totally unaffordable and inflationary the rest of the time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cfc465d17c54cafa6699d52a89478c2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I just answered that question, but if the member would care to even look at the latest economic data put out yesterday, he will find that retail sales rose by 3.8 percent in one quarter. If that is not showing excess demand in the economy, then I do not know what is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022709dae9d6adc497d8d4a03e0c9090ce1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the two great tax cuts in the past occurred in the late 1980s, when National was not occupying the role of Minister of Finance or Treasurer, and in 1998, when, again, National was not occupying the role of Treasurer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de195ef7d23d4b88977cc3f366ec4cdc\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Aw!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220384ae57c3e4482a92151724af2bbe45\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is a fact, actually, is it not, boys? The last big cut in this country was $1.1 billion, when I was Treasurer. Can the Prime Minister confirm that, and could she give us any idea why, given that track record, National should be trusted on this matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d5487ec855f43bfa5e83854697081d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is certainly true to say that the largest change to the taxation system, including the biggest cuts in the top tax rate and in the business tax rate, occurred in 1988, and that there were further substantial cuts in taxation in 1997-98. It is also true that both incumbent Governments lost the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fe78bdadc2e414dbc94b42d33b3faec\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister saying that Dr Cullen has confirmed in the House this afternoon that tax cuts are not necessarily on Labour\u2019s agenda for election 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022373e4299473d4b269a2445606f1e819d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I said yesterday that I hope to outline in next year\u2019s Budget what the long-term plans will be in respect of any changes around personal taxation. What I do notice is that if we had had $2.5 billion worth of tax cuts in the last year, as proposed by the member, then the figures for yesterday\u2019s retail sales would be much higher than they were, inflationary pressures would be higher, and the current account deficit would be even worse. But this member said that we should borrow more, as the answer to economic management in New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7372c3e5cfa43c4927600f396ad6fd5\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with what, in effect, Michael Cullen has been telling the people of New Zealand for the last 8 years, which is that \u201Cyou can\u2019t have a tax cut when the surplus is small, because you can\u2019t afford it; you can\u2019t have a tax cut when the surplus is big, because\u2014by the way\u2014there\u2019s no correlation between the two; and you can\u2019t have a tax cut when there\u2019s a threat of inflation, and so, in fact\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7104100bcae4a6cae3c798a87a28fab\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote this rubbish?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9376d3f7f7a43adaff82b91acfa09b6\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the only time one can have a tax cut, I say to Trevor, is obviously when one is behind in the polls. That is what he said yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022354a280130884129ba89ba79e2e7d29c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is certainly true in any simple understanding of macroeconomic management that if a large surplus is due to demand-led economic growth, feeding that demand is the most stupid thing one could do. That is why Bill English has been saying that we should not do it. So Opposition members disagree with one another\u2014even on their core policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ee7d60653bb404590da1e533c77d832\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware of the statement made by Lester Brown in his book Plan B that the overriding challenge is to restructure taxes to get the market to tell the ecological truth; if so, how can she have confidence in a Minister of Finance who developed a billion dollar - plus tax-cut package for business without any consideration of using it to promote sustainability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228881fb0a1ed841a9b05af4fcb78dcab8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Officials are indeed working on whether the tax system can be used in that respect, but I prefer to do the work\u2014and I am somewhat sceptical about the possibilities\u2014rather than picking a billion dollars out of the air for supposed tax incentives for sustainability without any detail about what they might be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf95c67d36b94fc69547e9e63333086b\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept that the ACT party has always said that it is a good time for a tax cut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a5215e3a1aa485380032f4277f092b0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, even when it was the Minister of Finance it used to argue that, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6e962e5b43a41ddad28a2e8c2d372db\u0022\u003EEarly Childhood Education\u2014Free Hours Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bc702257afd4f069759a67129822001\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What indications does he have of parents and early childhood education services being aware and supportive of the Labour-led Government\u2019s 20 hours free early childhood education policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022b470d008bb65469a88e628db54818bee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b470d008bb65469a88e628db54818bee\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I am informed that 40 orders a day are being rushed out to meet the growing demand from the early childhood sector for attestation forms to sign parents up for 20 hours free. That means we now have orders for 259,000 forms; we have 107,000 parent information booklets on order; and we have had 4,200 calls to the information line. We have heard from the member\u2019s electorate of Gisborne that that region will be celebrating the arrival of early childhood 20 hours free. I think the indications are positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b322cf5e289499284cd4a3a539f7b6f\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of any opposition in principle to 20 hours free early childhood education for 3 and 4-year-olds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f97e0bfd218a4355b82606a5bb8d0f22\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The answer is almost none. Virtually no one in the early childhood sector disagrees in principle with this policy. But I have heard that National\u2019s Paula Bennett made it clear on Close Up last Thursday that the National Party\u2019s opposition to the policy was not based on money, it was based on the fact that the National Party simply does not want all parents to have access to 20 hours free.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228483ad1a3e1646498e81b5f8e16d97e1\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister have any idea how many 3 and 4-year-olds will actually receive 20 free hours come 1 July; if so, what are his latest estimates, because it seems he has no idea actually how many 3 and 4-year-olds will get it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224468e7a3043744f29a2b0a4b6bd03daf\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As I have frequently told the member in answer to her many, many insightful questions on this matter, up to 92,000 3 to 4-year-olds will have access. I am optimistic that on 1 July we will have a good muster of centres. I am equally optimistic that over a period of time, just as in the case of the primary health organisations, we will see more and more centres take up this kind offer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ff4a277d0d44c4f979af105f0c6740e\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member agree that the level of resistance to the 20 hours free policy has been greater than initially predicted, and to what factors does he attribute the level of resistance countenanced thus far?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b19d95ad15bb4cfd9cc053f93819bf11\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first question, no. In answer to the second question, there are people on the other side of the House who are paid to get up every day and oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d17af765a2c9494fb85b81a51793062c\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver\u2014Average Wage and Default Contribution\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226afaa3effff245e58a502d1b6a6cd6f7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What will a person on the average individual wage, working full-time, who starts a job after 1 July 2007, pay into KiwiSaver per week if they are automatically enrolled in the scheme at the default rate of 4 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002232160b13bf8c4e7b8076465d5c9974f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232160b13bf8c4e7b8076465d5c9974f8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Approximately $34 a week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262261d3664f84746b4d15e5c89b8abd3\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that to get a tax incentive of about $11 a week, a person on the average wage of $45,000 will need to put $34 per week into KiwiSaver?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273435228193a478f9236aada0a5906ca\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very interesting question. I rely upon the member\u2019s answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e8d4f0e67446649b4fc21487d2aeb6\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that Australia has in excess of $750 billion in its superannuation fund, with compulsory contributions having started at 6 percent of people\u2019s salaries and now being 9 percent; if so, what would the total amount of New Zealand savings be if we had decided to commence compulsory savings of that proportion in 1997, as proposed by New Zealand First?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c7d034f1d0466b91a64c732e1c01fa\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Off the top of my head I find it fairly difficult to answer that question, given the number of variables that would come into play. But I think something approximately in the order of $100 billion\u2014or getting towards that figure\u2014would be about right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc82d4ebc257461b9a31e8654feecc1d\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on support for the KiwiSaver scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a96ce8b0474580a6e86377073e272d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have received reports of support from a wide range of sectors, including business, the unions, and overseas experts. I am also surprised to see a recent report from Mr English stating that his party now supported this scheme, which his leader had slated as being a cheque book that we had used to pay for the pool boy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f476b50474604e57a90673b6285a8f39\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell us what proportion of people on the average wage who are facing significant increases in interest rates are likely to be able to afford to lock away $34 a week in extra savings until they turn 65, in order to reduce their taxes by $11 per week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9c36b5020b34d8f988eb1932261e6d2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member is making a number of assumptions in that question, which I think he should be encouraged not to do. Let me go further than that and say that the assumption when the KiwiSaver scheme was introduced in 2005 was that 25 percent of the workforce would join up within 5 years of the scheme starting. Some recent opinion surveys suggest a considerably higher figure than that may be likely, and, indeed, a report out sometime today, I think, will show that propensity to join is actually largest amongst households in the income range of $30,000 to $69,000 a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c10f6cc2ebc47588292f10dbe1fd967\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports on the impact of KiwiSaver on the sustainability of New Zealand superannuation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e13b2802d9c4e2c9eac8926e34374c8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have seen a report from Standard and Poor\u2019s saying that New Zealand is one of the best-prepared nations for dealing with the challenges of an ageing population. I have seen a rather strange report from Mr English questioning whether the political consensus on superannuation still holds. After reports from Business New Zealand calling for cuts in New Zealand superannuation, this suggests that National is now really moving towards suggesting that New Zealand superannuation should be cut by means of income and asset testing in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222682eca1b119496c9d5deee1f845458b\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that for KiwiSaver to make a significant difference to national savings, he would need to use the traditional tax incentive that works for higher-income people who can afford to save, or who will shift savings from bank accounts or shares into KiwiSaver in order to get the tax benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a63fa231a52432abbc7b28af150ce89\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot confirm that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af8f7a3981db41dd9ea98f4c0933e61b\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: What advice would he give to middle-income New Zealand households facing increases in interest rates: should they pay off debt in order to avoid the higher interest rates that he has partly caused, or should they opt to stay in KiwiSaver and lock up a weekly amount until they are 65 in return for either a tax benefit or some kind of donation from the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eec794a5b7764f6aa4897d2828676767\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: What I would advise those people to do, first of all, is not to vote National. They should not vote National, because a $2.5 billion a year across-the-board tax cut would place more pressure on interest rates. They should not vote National, because Mr English has said the only problem with monetary policy is that the Reserve Bank governor has not put interest rates up enough. They should not vote National, because if there is a National Government, when they get to 65 they will find that their superannuation is less than it otherwise would have been. That is what he did the last time he was Minister of Finance; he cut New Zealand superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef05451572e6424d8dd1acab19dae9d4\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell the House why he is including in his Budget a reduction in company tax rates, which he has always argued against, and savings incentives, which he has always argued against; is it because economic policy is now run by Winston Peters, who forced him into tax incentives, and Peter Dunne, who forced him into a company tax cut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222272b4b8623d445eafe3d4ec3b7fe012\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have to wait until Thursday afternoon to find out what is in the Budget. Unfortunately for him, what is in the Budget is neither a cock-up nor a conspiracy\u2014his two favourite explanations of life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f72e37b3b1ed4e4c8ab199e613afde88\u0022\u003EJustice\u2014Miscarriages of Justice and Imprisonment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213869cae02c7470fbf7689cbcd771273\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he agree with Sir Thomas Thorp, who warns in his report into miscarriages of justice that up to 20 people could be wrongfully incarcerated in New Zealand\u2019s jails; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u00225b38fba54b474b34aee60cd812143553\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b38fba54b474b34aee60cd812143553\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Sir Thomas Thorp\u2019s report is a valuable study of the United Kingdom\u2019s experience of miscarriages of justice, but, as Sir Thomas himself acknowledges, there is no definitive New Zealand data on the potential number of miscarriages of justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8e6f21e232d4439a1ef4f7ee6fb3f52\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that following the Privy Council decision in the Bain case there are a number of other cases, such as that of Scott Watson, Peter Ellis, John Barlow, and others, that cause considerable disquiet in the public\u2019s mind and among legal professionals, and that until this country has a process such as that outlined by Justice Thorp\u2014that is, a criminal appeals review office of some kind\u2014that disquiet will not be laid to rest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238ea7595d80c48c0a748977a8aceb7bf\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: The option proposed by Justice Thorp is clearly a credible one for some jurisdictions, and the work we are doing right now is really examining that, alongside other options. But, without commenting on specific cases, I would point out that a number of the cases the member cited have resulted in referral back to the court by way of the current royal prerogative system. So clearly it is not the case that the process has failed many of those who have made use of it in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b7644404bc8402684ff7d8d5d82d622\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Government done in relation to the issues raised by the Thorp report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224df014582ed64770baf1e4d3ab2f1d09\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: We have moved to adopt a simple three-stage case-management system for considering applications, to ensure there is a straightforward process, and have expanded the pool of legal advisers, and added additional support from external lawyers. Also, it is fair to say that at the front end the Evidence Act 2002 will have a significant and positive impact on how the courts operate, as it brings greater clarity to the way in which information is offered to courts as evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c8d77af49e242b49d7405bd88024bc7\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: What explanation does he have for the finding, in the 2006 report of Sir Thomas Thorp, that M\u0101ori and Pasifika peoples use the existing processes for reporting miscarriages of justice much less than P\u0101keh\u0101?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7b6a9973da44d3a980dba0babc78276\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot offer the member an off-the-cuff explanation, but certainly it sits inside the work being done now in terms of the overrepresentation of M\u0101ori in the criminal justice system. I think that question, and many others, must be addressed in terms of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022005b6b2856ed4aa8899d7ea39c2d9c83\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what you were saying 9 years ago. What have you been doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221004c3175f5d47d1bdcd53e9fd2007ed\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: With respect, the member\u2019s party was in Government 9 years ago. He really should focus on the facts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e3125540d2649b79bc30c6deb2b567b\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister acknowledge that public concern about the way in which evidence was gathered and presented to the court in cases like the Bain case and the Watson case, raises strong doubts that the amendments to the Evidence Act, which he referred to, will overcome the suspicion that in such controversial cases the determination of the police to \u201Cget their man\u201D often gets in the way of ensuring that all the relevant facts, regardless of their impact on the Crown case, are presented to the court, so that juries can reach a fair and balanced verdict; if so, what is he going to do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a10bedee4c144ae9441be32bcbb243d\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member understands that it is absolutely improper for me to comment, at this time, on the case that is currently before the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d4cdaa77bf04aea823e743f362dff81\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do not normally raise points of order about Minister\u2019s answers, but my question was a general one using two specific examples. I think the Minister can be invited to comment on the general proposition I raised, if not referring to the specific cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287bd732b96794c79a7a1dac2563509a2\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to expand. Frankly, it is too soon to reach the sort of conclusion that the member\u2019s question implies in relation to the changes to the Evidence Act. It was enacted in November last year, and I think it is simply too soon to reach that sort of conclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ba8878542604b66ac62ff9522fc00e3\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the explanations of Sir Thomas Thorp that the reason M\u0101ori and Pasifika peoples do not report miscarriages of justice is that they feel they are not understood by the justice system; if so, what is he doing to particularly improve M\u0101ori and Pasifika confidence in the integrity of the justice system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022004d03acdef24580be5593fceda1c5f7\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I think Justice Thorp\u2019s comments have some merit. The work that is in progress now is specifically addressing that issue both through ongoing policy and specific programmes that are already working. In particular, the work is looking at proven programmes and how they can be better resourced, particularly programmes working with M\u0101ori and Pacific communities that have a proven track record. We are looking right now at how the better resourcing of those programmes might expand the effectiveness of their work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221142dbf8bb9e476d876d51c05ce27182\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s previous answer, when he talked about the satisfactory nature of the way petitions to the Governor-General are dealt with, does he agree that justice should be transparent, accountable, and consistent in process; if so, what does he make of the opinion of senior Queen\u2019s Counsel Judith Ablett-Kerr, who describes the current way of handling petitions to the Governor-General as \u201Cterribly arbitrary, with no consistency of approach, no transparency, and little accountability\u201D, and does he not agree that an independent office, as outlined by Justice Thorp, would provide a transparent, consistent, and fair process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8c618dd296141aabe0ac261fe26af2d\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first question, I disagree with the Queen\u2019s Counsel, who has a particular view on these matters as an active defence lawyer. I draw to the member\u2019s attention Sir Thomas\u2019 view, after examining the 53 files that he had asked for the opportunity to access, that he had few disagreements with the conclusions reached. That suggests that the current process is a robust one. That is not to say that the alternative model he has raised is not worthy of consideration; it is under current active consideration, along with other possibilities. As the member knows, I think, that policy work is due for report later this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f76f5dda20a4a5e8bc362c9dff82c4f\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister be satisfied with the current process in light of the fact that it took Rex Haig taking a prison officer hostage before he got a fair hearing, and does it require taking someone captive to get a fair trial in the New Zealand system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215f07baafc6f4645b2d54fb30c6e4582\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I simply do not agree with the member\u2019s assertion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baf731ea690e4f3481fdbda0637374db\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I ask the Minister to clarify whether he is disputing that Rex Haig had to take someone hostage, or whether he is disputing that that is what it takes to get a fair deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225e0cd7309e64422844a6b5dbe68773d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member asking another supplementary question\u2014because the Minister did address the question? There are no more supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc14d435a1c5480d88b162d4d6032ce4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u002275a5e855db4341e3badc537f3106a968\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275a5e855db4341e3badc537f3106a968\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wish to raise a matter in respect of Standing Order 399. Prior to question time my office, and also the office of Judith Collins, received calls from Shane Wenzel, who is linked to the company I will be asking questions about in the House today. He issued personal threats about what would happen should I pursue my question in the House. I seek your advice on what steps to take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ebd172dbbbe4c849efc737addeb91e0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. That is a matter of privilege, so the member will raise the issue with me in the appropriate way under the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002252e72a029f3c404ba50e2cd078509c08\u0022\u003ECase Boreham Associates\u2014Teacher-aide Training\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c6d3e42153d4e2eb7710569e0e802fd\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education: Has he, NZQA, or the Ministry of Education received any complaints about Case Boreham Associates, a private training establishment training teacher-aides for schools; if so, what steps have been taken as a result of any such complaints?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00223d9969d76793498aa259a73e62afa5d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d9969d76793498aa259a73e62afa5d9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Since February 2005 the New Zealand Qualifications Authority has received several related complaints regarding Case Boreham Associates Ltd. That led subsequently to a range of actions relating particularly to the auditing process. In 2007, following, obviously, legal action against the company, its registration was cancelled by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority and the Tertiary Education Commission ceased its funding. The commission is now applying for a refund of the money paid out early in this current calendar year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5b849c3c70b423a9ab29c4026aa0cdf\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: On what date did the Minister of Education pass on to him serious complaints he received in June 2005 about the tertiary provider that the courses were so bad students had to \u201Cteach themselves\u201D and that the tutors were so hopeless that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority reports noted that they did not know any course content and had \u201Clittle or no idea what to teach\u201D, plus tip-offs about potential fraud\u2014that is, taxpayers\u2019 money being siphoned off into dodgy property deals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8d4ddac64044b74bcb4517bed9bb648\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member will appreciate that at that point I was not the Minister of Tertiary Education. The then Minister of Education dealt with the matter himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238423ecc02bd43368388f52baabfcd59\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any other correspondence related to Case Boreham Associates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a5bca83d184474fb14385e3b32be608\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. National MP Judith Collins wrote to my colleague the Minister of Education last month, requesting information on why Case Boreham Associates\u2019 registration had been cancelled. The accompanying letter from Case Boreham Associates thanked Judith Collins for her support. I quote: \u201CDear Judith, Thank you for your support.\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228488c96af9954f758d231c889bdbd344\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table my letter to the Hon Steve Maharey, including the answer I received from Mr Maharey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b9fdf227fe04ed8abfa1390473f2e0c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the letter from Case Boreham Associates to Judith Collins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022731a94c6b07c40bea9fd006c0f5c52ea\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister says that the Minister of Education dealt with the issue himself, would he not expect that when one of his colleagues\u2014in this case the Minister of Education\u2014receives serious complaints about a tertiary provider, namely problems with appalling course quality and the potential misuse of tertiary funds by their being siphoned off into dodgy property deals, that Minister would pass that on to the Minister of Tertiary Education; and what discussions were had?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235591ddcd3a94766acbe1f0ac7f23dd3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: At the time my colleague was the Minister responsible for both porfolios. Therefore there was no point in passing it on to himself. He did refer the matter to the New Zealand Qualifications Authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c92402f2f7284e43af9a643ae5e3cd27\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: With reference to my colleague Judith Collins, is the Minister trying to create the impression that even though this tertiary provider failed three New Zealand Qualifications Authority audits, had tutors who could not teach, was the subject of serious allegations of siphoning taxpayers\u2019 money into dodgy property deals, and received $1.2 million worth of taxpayer funding, somehow my learned colleague Judith Collins is responsible for that, when she was only writing a letter on behalf of a constituent asking that Minister to explain matters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022603a7f2180bd427eb5c8809e0c91a157\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If all those facts were known to the Opposition, it seems strange that Judith Collins should write to the Minister asking him to explain his actions in that particular respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283d57005a5224761a27142b71cd20cea\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Which is worse: the Government dishing out money for courses of questionable academic merit, such as twilight golf, homeopathy for pets, and radio singalongs, or dishing out money to a training organisation that is under investigation for diverting taxpayers\u2019 money\u2014which was supposed to be used to train teacher-aides\u2014into property deals; and what does it take for something to be done about these kinds of disasters? Do they have to be of w\u0101nanga proportions before the Government actually does anything about them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208cb1bbec44e44f3ab7d922b5acdfbe8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That was a good try, but in fact the Government has saved something like $200 million by cancelling low-quality courses, which is why I have been able to redirect money into the polytechnics and universities. In this case, the Tertiary Education Commission has to continue funding while the organisation has New Zealand Qualifications Authority registration. Its student component funding started in 1999. Its funding from the Government started in 1993.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cd159e6588749b7968de3644ee8b75b\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: When this Government received continued serious complaints and tip-offs and three damning New Zealand Qualifications Authority audit reports, and was aware that liquidation papers were filed back in July 2006, why did it take until after the beginning of February, when the company had gone into liquidation, for the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to finally scrub it off its registration list?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022447d40a1dfb14fb99b7ac2f55594eb4e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If we were to respond to every complaint I receive about every organisation by deregistering them, then even Auckland University would not be receiving Government funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b555be96305d49bdb60fe70842b5c94d\u0022\u003EEmployment\u2014Support into Work\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb27293c56d6433c92b43af9461de789\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What reports has he received on the Labour-led Government\u2019s success at supporting people into work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u00227af27176524647e5a011a9cbdce11f62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227af27176524647e5a011a9cbdce11f62\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The household labour force survey figures released last Thursday show that employment in New Zealand was at a record high of 2,143,000 people in the March 2007 quarter. That means we have 347,000 more people in work than we did in December 1999, which is an increase equivalent to the entire population of the beautiful city of Christchurch. The unemployment rate is at 3.8 percent, remaining at historically low levels. It was the 11th consecutive quarter for which the unemployment rate was below 4 percent in New Zealand. The household labour force survey results also supported a continued reduction in the number of people on the unemployment benefit in the country. There are now only 26,678 New Zealanders reliant on that benefit. That is an 83 percent reduction since this Government took office, and the lowest figure since the middle of the 1980s\u201427 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f313b2df70e54ac78615c5da839685f8\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister received about the numbers of youth on an unemployment benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb1b950376164bffb220ebda1480828a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I can report that in December 1999, 17,514 18 and 19-year-olds received the unemployment benefit. As at the end of April this year, that number was 1,424.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3d82d0bbd8749b4b13c6257851ee629\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022618a52701cf14313b039b4c8e636a92c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: It is 1,424. That is a reduction of 92 percent since this Government took office. There are now 28 Work and Income service centres in this country where at the end of April there were no youth in receipt of unemployment benefit, and a further 66 service centres where the number was less than 10. That success is also reflected in the numbers of M\u0101ori youth aged 18 to 19 in receipt of the unemployment benefit, which stands at 572 in April, and Pacific youth aged 18 to 19 in receipt of the unemployment benefit, which was only 162 in April\u2014an extraordinary achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ab91200fe25485b98abc933790b95f9\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou te Whare. Is it true that one of the reasons for the success of the Government\u2019s programme to support people into work is that the Government is paying employers $280 a week to take on workers; if so, can the Minister please explain to the House why, for all of that subsidising of private enterprise, M\u0101ori still make up 36.5 percent of all those receiving the unemployment benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227981493fd1284aafabee7a671067a4ef\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: No. It is true, however, that the number of M\u0101ori on an unemployment benefit is now below 9,000. It is actually 8,927, which is 77 percent less than it was in December 1999. I seek leave of the House to table a schedule of the 28 Work and Income service centres with nil unemployed youth, and the 66 centres with fewer than 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f34577d1eaba4061b695aeab502bf427\u0022\u003EDistrict Health Boards, Auckland\u2014House Officer Vacancies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238c3e749055f4030942adf21b3946764\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What is the estimated house officer vacancy rate for each of the three Auckland district health boards for the third quarter, which starts later this month, and does he expect the vacancy rates to worsen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u00228648a792c4054527a91ae7f081e22986\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228648a792c4054527a91ae7f081e22986\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Acting Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I am informed that the three Auckland district health boards have house officer vacancies\u2014interpreted by most people as meaning a shortage of doctors\u2014estimated at less than 2 percent, which represents seven doctors over three district health boards. I am also advised that it is not expected that the overall shortage will worsen in the next quarter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8323702520e4f1bbb0f6b42f147778e\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How seriously is the Government taking this issue, when senior clinicians from hospitals in Auckland are talking about a 21 percent shortage in Auckland and a 28 percent shortage in Waitemat\u0101, when the country is facing a worsening shortage of hospital doctors, and when the New Zealand Minister of Health, Pete Hodgson, is in Wales, advising the Labour Party there on how to form a new Government\u2014just as his own is falling apart?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fb00629380448c080db134d2249280f\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is the first Government since 1981 to increase the number of doctors trained\u2014an increase of 40 since 2004. Also\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bcf455e82c44404bc5026512126fac2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is becoming difficult to hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f2cb52be1a44a83bb77378ad16034af\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Ryall does not seem to understand that the doctors are there. In many cases, they are taking up locum positions so they can be employed on better pay and with better conditions\u2014and why would they not? So there is not actually a shortage of doctors. Dr Stephen Child, the director of clinical training at the Auckland District Health Board, said on Morning Report this morning: \u201CMost importantly is we need to look at how we currently staff our hospitals. We have what is called fixed staffing ratios, which means we have to have so many doctors on during the daytime rather than being able to roster doctors when we need them. And I think we need to look at the way we do the whole system and try to do things a bit smarter.\u201D I would say \u201Camen\u201D to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0d53bc81ef0481fa36a1c1eaf38ff81\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister heard any reports of compromise to patient safety in respect of junior doctors in the Auckland area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b2ae155d24840978ab7170122479da8\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I heard that, not unusually, Mr Ryall on the radio this morning was luxuriating in some unnecessarily worrying and scaremongering statements. He said: \u201CThe real worry for Aucklanders is that unless these shortages can be fixed, their services will be affected.\u201D But in the same news item two senior clinicians in Auckland agreed that there will be no compromise in patient safety. I am also informed that there are no plans to cut back on elective surgical services as a result of any potential house officer shortages. I advise Mr Ryall to stop being an ambulance chaser in this House and around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243b087efc4734617b4c244fea96cb509\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that the increased rate of locum use at Auckland hospitals is exacerbating doctor shortages, as more are opting out of regular positions to take up better-paying locum work; if so, what is he doing to improve the situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d852d7977494d7383e9264d972f66fa\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, that does not equate with doctor shortages; it means that many of these positions are being filled by locums on better pay and conditions. I note that the medical education and training report, launched last week by Dr Cullen and Mr Hodgson, states that following the first post-graduate year there is no specific clinical requirement for the second post-graduate year, and many doctors decide to make what amount to lifestyle choices and become locums. This is clearly an area of the training system that needs further consideration; I understand that it is being done as a matter of urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a4197ed7f454e9ab8b4631b69d80cd7\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Minister of Health, Mr Hodgson, return from Wales, where he is giving the Government there advice on how to form a new Government; and does the shortage of doctors mean that services in the greater Auckland area will have to be changed in the way they are configured\u2014for example, will women in the Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board area have to deliver their babies at Auckland City Hospital because of the shortage of obstetric registrars on the North Shore?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022709f18e6daad4b81bd40aa2daad2db7d\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think that Mr Hodgson will be returning any time soon in answer to any pressure that Mr Ryall puts on him. I do not know exactly what the situation will be for obstetrics. If the member wants a specific answer to that question, he can submit it to me and I will see that he gets it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275202dbb37e842979deb8bdc7ccc8cea\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think that Dr Pat Alley, the training director of Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board, was lying when he said that hospitals in the Auckland region are facing the highest staff shortages ever seen; and does it not show that after 8 years, 43 reports, and numerous committees on the health workforce, this Government has absolutely no idea of what is going on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e8ae8d37349470a9b63246d8f83456e\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: What I do know is that Dr Pat Alley said on the radio this morning that he is absolutely convinced there is no compromise in patient safety because of so-called staff shortages. Dr Stephen Child, the clinical director, agrees. He says Aucklanders should be reassured that there are still a large number of doctors who are able to fill the gaps. However, Dr Child says that in the long term, staff retention and recruitment processes must be addressed, and he concedes that a better approach is needed. It would be much better for the confidence that anyone might have in an absent National Party health strategy for Mr Ryall to start dealing objectively with these matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fff96ee5d5d418f9c0ea8d8d2f7c18b\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think it is an acceptable quality of care for New Zealand patients when even Dr Child from the Auckland District Health Board admits that patients see one locum doctor one night and then another locum doctor the next night, and is it little wonder that there are so many problems in the public health system when doctors change more frequently than the bed linen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cba48689d5345abaec39db583841cc9\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I think that members of the House might just reflect on that description. It goes to the heart of the credibility of the member who said it. In fact, the reality is that, as I said, the medical education and training report launched last week by Mr Hodgson and Mr Cullen indicates that there are necessary changes to be made in the system\u2014not that there are shortages of doctors, as Mr Ryall shouted out on breakfast radio this morning, but that the way in which the doctors are actually used and resourced needs to be improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022544cfecf4abc49ec93ee01868ef45052\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a report that shows Pete Hodgson in Wales\u2014while hospitals are facing record doctor shortages\u2014advising the Labour Party there on how to form a new Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221acaf624cf294fdc8235f3f6836ab7f9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022af459bc21aa2499893aabc5c1f294804\u0022\u003EPacific Nations\u2014Trade with New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2e383cad8f148fcbc38ea599481b963\u0022\u003ETAITO PHILLIP FIELD (Independent\u2014Mangere)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Trade: What is the Government doing to promote and assist improvement in trade between the Pacific nations and New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00224cafd36840aa4ffa868f84a5d5227108\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cafd36840aa4ffa868f84a5d5227108\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Trade: The Government funds the Pacific Islands Trade and Investment Commission in Auckland to promote exports from Pacific Island countries and investment from New Zealand in those countries. It supports efforts by the business community, through the New Zealand Pacific Business Council, to promote two-way trade, and organises periodic trade missions into the Pacific. Offices of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise in Suva, Noumea, and Papeete act as links for Pacific clients. Through New Zealand aid the Government supports capacity building in the areas linked to trade, and, of course, my ministerial colleague does an enormous amount of work for Pacific countries in that way, and I thank her for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b087ac96ee844d0db4e52069eb138ebd\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u003C/span\u003E: Given the imbalance in the trade figures recently released for trade between the Pacific nations and New Zealand\u2014for example, New Zealand exports to Samoa are worth around $73 million a year, although New Zealand imports just $2.8 million of Samoan products; the figure for New Zealand trade to Tonga is around $45.4 million a year, and for Tongan products to New Zealand it is $2.3 million; the figure for New Zealand trade to the Cook Islands is around $66.5 million, and for Cook Islands produce to New Zealand it is just $1.3 million; and the figure for New Zealand trade to Fiji is $284 million, and for Fijian trade to New Zealand it is $56 million\u2014what will the New Zealand Government be doing to improve that trade imbalance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022736e58bf55c940d4b43a680300c5c911\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to explain to the House that for most of those countries New Zealand is the route for their international trade. Often their trade comes through Auckland\u2014that includes, for example, oil and other things. I think members have to take some care when taking those figures at their face value. They are gross, not net, figures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fd78c2ac0824fa9921bde538a8f506a\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u003C/span\u003E: Given the reliance of Pacific nations on agricultural exports and New Zealand\u2019s problem with fruit fly, what progress is being made to help the Pacific nations to meet the biosecurity requirements in order to improve their exports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022312831beb6e842b5b87a9f486d68f92b\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have a specific answer on the fruit fly question, but I am sure if the member puts down a question to the Minister responsible, he will be happy to answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002282808654814640b996ce67b1fee8858a\u0022\u003EOverseas Aid\u2014Announcements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226373933959a9463bb47a4c5f5c861426\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: What recent announcements has he made with respect to New Zealand\u2019s level of overseas aid?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00222a206a4e0fe94a209ed2b1961c4df97e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a206a4e0fe94a209ed2b1961c4df97e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday I announced the most significant ever increase in dollar terms to New Zealand\u2019s aid spending. As a result of this year\u2019s Budget, New Zealand\u2019s aid and development programmes will increase by 21 percent, or $70 million, in the next financial year, and by a total of 69 percent over the next 4 years. This is by far the largest commitment for decades to increase official development assistance spending. The increase will take our official development assistance spending to $429 million in 2007 and 2008, representing 0.30 percent of gross national income. Further funding increases over the following 3 years commit us to reaching the gross national income figure of 0.35 percent by 2010\u2019s Budget. On current figures that will see our aid budget reach over $601 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de63df678d184dabb5f04597d154267e\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Where will the majority of the aid increase be directed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ca14220466e4bee84a32b6b2172df97\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The increased funding will go where it is most urgently needed in the Pacific and in Asia. Over half of the new money will be spent in the Pacific, particularly in the Melanesian countries of Papua New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, and Vanuatu where the need is greatest. Pacific-wide programmes targeting education, health, livelihoods, good governance, and economic growth will all increase. New Zealand\u2019s capacity to respond to humanitarian crises will also be bolstered in a region as vulnerable to natural disasters as the Pacific. This is an obvious priority. In conclusion, funding for this work will increase significantly and will continue our long history of working closely with key multilateral partners such as UN agencies during times of humanitarian crises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d043655df0b44e28a8e27bd13877163c\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What is going on when you increase the aid budget by $70 million against the background that $40.6 million spent last year on the Cook Islands, Tokelau, and Niue resulted in depopulation of those countries; $26.7 million spent in Tonga and the Solomons resulted in riots, and the capitals of Honiara and Nuku\u2019alofa being razed; and $8 million spent in Fiji resulted in a coup\u2014and now you plan to spend\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d085ad328134ee4a3c4ce428d9f201b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That member has been here for a number of months now. Three times, I think, in the supplementary question he has mixed you up with the Minister, and all of us can tell the difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242274aa2e4314bee90af0574486830f0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I agree. I let the member go because he does not often ask questions. But would the member please observe the normal rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218006a46e86841f5a32eed72b415b792\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I assume that you would like me to start again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276ce75a1267b470f9fca9752695993bc\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. I would also remind members, both those who ask questions and those who answer them, that they should be succinct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fece9ee814a4c528124c766d9857ffd\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: And why will we be spending more money in Viet Nam, where Viet Nam\u2019s aid will be the same as the aid going to Samoa plus the Cook Islands, which is to be doubled, and are you satisfied with the quality of the spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef42c9f3537b448e96a8d3828f3b6b03\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca40e57da2734333b67188f68df4703a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. We have got to the end of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273d0d71b83b44d59aec7ac0b34fa2198\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: This country has had a long, recognised special relationship with Niue, with the Cook Islands, and with Tokelau. It is one that has had bipartisan support over many decades and is a responsibility that we have undertaken with the UN. I would hate to think that that comment means that the National Party intends to abandon its support for those three special countries, which has enlarged massively our footprint in the Pacific. The second thing is that depopulation is a priority, in terms of the policy to rectify that, and it is critical that the right policies be applied to those three countries\u2014and that is our intention. The third thing is, with regard to Tonga and the Solomons, the riots there surely cannot be attributed to the aid that New Zealand has been giving in those countries, but the issue requires us to better understand how we might act within the community to ensure that those sorts of reactions to the Governments of those countries are not to be repeated. On the issue of the coup in Fiji, I do not recall the Governments of the day in 1987 or in 2000 being accused of initiating the coup in Fiji. So I am astonished that this member, Mr Hayes, seeks to follow some policy of recrimination against his former employers\u2014namely, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs\u2014in this House, and I would like to know whether Mr McCully endorses his approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dab46840cbe46068f0dbd96514e6368\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was a very good example of a very long question with lots of issues getting a very long answer. So I would ask members to please restrain themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d54d5e5a00b4ef3b065263f3583cb49\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain the attention being given to what could be called climate-friendly aid projects in the Pacific\u2014renewable energy and the like\u2014and the potential for using some of the commendable increase in aid that he has just announced for this purpose?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc5472ab21bd4f4987bd90aaa3faee87\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: For some time NZAID has been looking at the possibility of expanding, for example, biofuel alternatives in the Pacific and ensuring that we can facilitate, if possible, the technology in those remote islands to be put in place and used, thereby saving substantially on the cost of fuel in those islands. With the rise in petrol costs, that has become more and more imperative. So it is within the programmed extension of aid, and increase in funding, that we look seriously at those possibilities. I thank the Greens for their support for this policy and this increase, and I just would hope that the ACT party and the National Party would get with the programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241cc5e507ac45e6a6abb2c305b3a5e1\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D koe, Madam Speaker. How has the proportion of overseas aid spent on the Pacific changed since the incoming Minister pledged an aid focus on the Pacific in 2005?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a50fad86d5b4bccb2f38eefe607cd0a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, can I just say\u2014[Interruption] I just want to say that this is very interesting. Mr Hayes is a member of the New Zealand parliamentary Pacific group, and has himself argued for an increase in aid within that parliamentary group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a58710690d944762a3ddd452e3e75280\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You can probably anticipate my point of order. That was a most inappropriate way for Mr Peters to begin answering his question. We have noticed that he is struggling today, but he should not be relying on notes from Brian Donnelly to get him through things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb88dd3d19dc44e1a3556359f96c5968\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member, but it is also an example that when there are interjections, they tend to provoke a response. So would the Minister please just address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fa4fbb764ee4451a49a6494884d5e6f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the complaint of the woodwork teacher\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d03bb8d6972d4e17be3aad31de0081ef\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022833a91fd069048bdacb102d0b65b5bf5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The answer is\u2014[Interruption] But that is his background and training for this place\u2014No. 3 in his party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222938acaa44c342a5be0c0124102f5c5b\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s lost his mojo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed25b8c1b8f948ebbfc0b137f4d03e7a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: A number of members are in the same boat, actually. The proportion of overseas development assistance spent directly on the Pacific has increased\u2014[Interruption]\u2014Madam Speaker, could I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2c729dc5a4d4100a0ec2de16ca49562\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister please just get on and answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022442d2f5c59d644299f19253287ee5996\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I am trying to, and I am on the first line, and all I am getting is a barracking act from my right, which is what the National Party is wont to do. With respect, if those members want to make those sorts of comments, surely I am\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d3a1dfa8b84d968184dbfff4d44bf4\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7334602f61b4d678b0e36193a4233da\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: There he is now\u2014on a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d8a1a40f91c4ab8a8bda5be4be0be34\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. We are getting close to having to hear this answer in silence. I will have one more go. The Minister will please address the question, so I would ask members to please let us hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a21062a593a4d36aa613542b8d74e27\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The change in aid focus that we pledged is seeing overseas development assistance spent directly in the Pacific increasing from an average of 41 percent to over 50 percent. These figures represent an increased focus on our neighbours in the Pacific, as I have said, as signalled by me as incoming Minister post the election 2005. I am also very pleased to see that people as eminent as President Bush have now declared that 2007 is to be the Year of the Pacific. At last we are getting our message away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252d1e91297ae4663803026eb2e9e9246\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u003C/span\u003E: I know I have exhausted my allotment of questions for this week, but could I just seek leave of the House to ask a question in relation to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b849bc85aca4efd8a02e58c2680d847\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to ask an additional supplementary question. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220adacbfddfae4209881295c938d3588e\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u003C/span\u003E: Given the announcement of the increase of aid money to the Pacific, should more independence for Pacific nations be promoted by way of trade, rather than by continued dependency on aid money into the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228278e2405f954232aaf9c654b37dc491\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That is an excellent question, and the answer is, of course, yes. Our aid budget should be designed to ensure that people who are currently dependent will be able to conduct their economic and social lives with as great a degree of independence as they are able to sustain, given that in some parts of the Pacific the average age in society is under 18 years. That is pretty dramatic in terms of what the needs are, if one is a Minister of Finance in that country. But I agree with the sentiment, and our policies are focused towards that being the final outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da0b0913f71a4d06990b196c67a86879\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D koe, Madam Speaker. Why has the overseas aid budget increased by such a significant amount?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226688f480f6c64299a6c35ec425f01795\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Because I made a serious request to an enlightened Minister of Finance, and he said yes. Tackling poverty and encouraging sustainable development in partnership with our neighbours is a central part of New Zealand\u2019s national identity as a responsible international citizen. The substantial increase has resulted from a full assessment of future needs of our overseas development assistance programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb69f1ec5c90409abb72cb78ad9b5df0\u0022\u003EEnergy\u2014Renewable Energy Projects\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c881ec4250bb406d844463890cf5c2b6\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Does he stand by his statement that consents for renewable energy projects should be considered on \u201Ca case by case basis\u201D by courts and councils and \u201Cthat\u2019s how it should be.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u00221c8efec1e6d74d1aa08e74149172c05d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c8efec1e6d74d1aa08e74149172c05d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. All projects need to be evaluated on their merits, and that includes evaluating them on a case by case basis. This can be achieved through a normal consent process run by local government, or through the call-in options available to the Government. What it does not mean is taking a completely one-sided approach to large energy projects that would completely disempower local communities. To show the successfulness of this process, I am pleased to advise the House today that following consideration of the views of all interested parties, the Environment Court has approved 66 of the 70 turbines on the Project West Wind wind farm at M\u0101kara.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cae137931cfa4f4bad8b545da5fac192\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he rest his hopes on the \u201Csuccessfulness\u201D of that particular approach, when in New Zealand today it is much easier to build a thermal electricity generation plant than it is to build a renewable one; when so many of the renewable projects are stalled through their spending months, if not years, in the court\u20143 years in the case of Project West Wind\u2014and when costs, which in the case of Project West Wind amount to $120 million, are escalating at an enormous rate? Why, then, does the Minister not take some action to give a bit of teeth to his Prime Minister\u2019s call for carbon neutrality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225903dc46eb1841938ce8387afa686ba4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I do apologise to the member for the invention of that word; \u201Csuccess\u201D would do. I do not believe there is an issue here. I think this Government takes the appropriate attitude towards the Resource Management Act. We have no intent\u2014unlike that party\u2014to tear the guts out of the Resource Management Act, to quote Mr Williamson. The fact is six wind farms have already been commissioned in New Zealand, a further six currently have consents but have not yet been commissioned, and a further 25 are in the planning process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200f4110350d746fbaa29d9804dee031b\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government not call in Project Hayes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a795f8abd480488aaa074f9f18d763c8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Early in the process, both the territorial local authority and Meridian Energy expressed confidence in the normal consenting process. Therefore, the Government decided not to call in the consent but, instead, to make a whole-of-Government submission in support of the project. I can advise the member that it was not until a matter of days before the consent process was about to begin that Meridian Energy wrote asking the Government to call in the project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229399d15a8a0947a9a7ff4009c68fb9f1\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that under the current arrangements it would be many, many years before those 25 proposed wind farms were adding to New Zealand\u2019s electricity generation, but that in just the short time of 7 years that his Government has been in power coal use has increased tenfold; and how does that sit with the Prime Minister\u2019s goal of New Zealand being carbon neutral?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e7ba1976c5149b7b15056f7ee9fccee\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fea146275e4423cb71386f258fd764a\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister noted that the approval process under the Resource Management Act sees thermal energy power stations consented to much more rapidly than renewable energy projects, and that when they are appealed to the Environment Court, the hearings take an average of 18 months to resolve, and usually the project goes ahead; if so, why will he not move to call in renewable energy projects, or can he not see the urgency here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209b7d4cf82914db0af6147ea7bfb4d24\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do concede that many of these issues are urgent. I will not hesitate to consider and advise Cabinet accordingly if I think the local councils are not capable of running a robust process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f207fc4ac82b443c947d9dfb52c1b874\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why has he vaguely talked about developing a national policy on wind power that would give weight to national interest in the longer term, when in the shorter term\u2014from next year, in fact\u2014we start incurring a liability under the Kyoto Protocol for our sky-rocketing growth in carbon dioxide emissions, most of which have come from greater reliance on thermal electricity generation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295fa6fbe5ca14e678f9bb56ccad1213d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Because this Government is intent on working with parties, including local government, for good outcomes, unlike National members, who members will recall forced my local authority in Dunedin to sell the Waipori dam. But I am open, as I have said publicly, to developing a national policy statement around renewable energy, should the need for it be identified as a result of the draft New Zealand energy strategy currently under preparation. I remind the member that I recently appointed an independent board of inquiry to hear public views on a proposed national policy statement on electricity transmission. I expect that board to notify the national policy statement shortly. That proposed national policy statement recognises the benefits of, and the need for, a robust transmission network, and reflects the Government\u2019s strong commitment to the development of clean and renewable energy sources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c12f81e0427a48a68320d4b529c4f661\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister persist in saying that everything is OK when last year the Huntly station operated at record levels, those records will be broken this year, and the overall amount of energy produced from thermal electricity and used will be at record levels, and what does that say about his Prime Minister\u2019s determination to make us carbon neutral?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282266e257a934e13b52533ada08ae7bb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: My responsibilities, as the member is only too aware, exist around the consent process under the Resource Management Act. I believe that that process is a robust mechanism for balancing conflicting imperatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002262f4195a92934cf68792939abee5b5f1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022da1437ff90424c89a493ec14d07f8241\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da1437ff90424c89a493ec14d07f8241\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E For the benefit of the Speaker of the Bougainville Parliament, who is sitting over there, I seek leave to table yesterday\u2019s official development assistance speech, and to confirm for him that the views expressed by Mr Hayes are not the views of this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022458e3bba6ac84607875880cab64f7354\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7c676d7124c4890818e9c634a095284\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Was that appropriate\u2014to address somebody else in this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b5680766b7a4ee7b3d5925dabbe4249\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was not appropriate. The member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9f1a67d39ec49b9904c7956333b2e7f\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, why was the leave put, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022178a78b70ee045c2a2c706f1474688ba\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is quite right. Because I normally let people finish their sentences! I have been reminded by that member in the past that that is the way this House should be conducted, so I do not interfere when people are halfway through their statements. But it was inappropriate. Members know that when they are tabling documents they do it succinctly; they identify the document, and they do not give any other interpretation to it. Leave has been sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022348359e42dce4a57abaaf93f215ba388\u0022\u003EClimate Change\u2014Government Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dddf614dd66348d59809056867e79244\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: What reports, if any, has he received on support for the Government\u2019s climate change policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00227d4f94a1e203426b9e730e14ac215baa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d4f94a1e203426b9e730e14ac215baa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E I have received a report that a senior member of this House called Kyoto \u201Ca failure of a document\u201D, and a second report in which the same member says he would now honour Kyoto. Of course, the member responsible for yet another climate change flip-flop is John Key. New Zealanders will judge whether his comments are as sincere as they were consistent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c21bd56efd44b6cb696ad9b6bea88c3\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: What recent reports has the Minister seen regarding progress towards carbon neutrality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6e1c39d816641a2a34d5f0883fee095\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a report that the InterCity group aims to operate the world\u2019s first carbon-neutral national transport system. It recognises the business and environmental benefits of carbon neutrality. Despite National\u2019s wish to the contrary, carbon neutrality continues to break out all over the place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290ec267fff7a4afd8b061aad197acf5b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government adopt John Key\u2019s very realistic and credible policy target of a 50 percent reduction\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcd80c493aec4b9587db17f95b0f329d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member please continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b5b396dd448468b918a9175c4432481\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I will ask it again, Madam Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299a85bb792f6437f8ae785bcb731232a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We will hear this question in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf7adfb52dc44cf18a7ccf1164a086de\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government adopt John Key\u2019s very realistic and credible policy target of a 50 percent reduction in 1990 emissions by 2050, as announced at the weekend, noting today\u2019s announcement by Japan that it will propose this exact same target at the June G8 summit in Germany, and that Japan has indicated the United States\u2019 support for that target; and does that not show that John Key is right on the button in terms of where the international community is at on this critical issue of climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec7911398e6a42078de38436ea0039bd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am gratified that the National Party seems to be getting in behind when it comes to climate change policy. It is now coming out in favour of emissions trading, having recently supported us on the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative. I would say that advancing towards carbon neutrality can be achieved through steady pursuit of sensible\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a6317e46c3d49cbb545e2da50adf0a1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We will now hear the answer in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259fd56a50cd443f59ef15081ff2369b5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would say that advancing towards carbon neutrality can be achieved through steady pursuit of sensible climate change policy\u2014ensuring houses are adequately insulated, rewarding those who plant forests on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a4febe367ce4a078e8757725343b2c4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question was straightforward: will the Government adopt the minus 50 by 2050 target? I seek that the Minister, rather than giving us a generic speech, addresses the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226674eea26fbb4578a287b365f6588260\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is addressing the question. If he had been able to finish, I might be able to make a better judgment on that basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efa9206410e4471d82e9f00fe6f778e0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to those sectoral efforts, the Government is proposing other policy and, of course, this other policy will enable the Government to properly calculate what is an appropriate target for our emissions reductions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8271648d76f484eb987eb1fd02e3a65\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister, having stated on 6 November 2006: \u201CYou ask me what date would New Zealand be carbon neutral. We haven\u2019t picked a date yet. You\u2019ll find it becomes clear in 6 months.\u201D, now make the situation clear, given that 6 months have passed, or was this just another example of climate change policy from him of promising answers in the never-never and never delivering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a95df18b04de4b8c942414a114244ea6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members who have had an opportunity to review the United Nations report on climate change, and the different mitigation options that are open to countries to reduce their emissions, will be pleased to see that the measures that have been proposed by this Government, and that are being considered pursuant to the documents released prior to Christmas, cover the ambit of mitigation potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd900e7f7778478099f780ec9ddc9f72\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question asked on what date New Zealand would be carbon neutral. The Minister said 6 months ago that we would know now. He made no attempt to answer that at all. He gave a generic answer about what might be happening around mitigation. No attempt was made to address the question of what date the Government would achieve carbon neutrality by.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceceb9f9911c41139094405cf1aa95b1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member, but, as members know, they cannot specify the particular answer they want to the question. The Minister did address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a416eb1a340644c78826bfd8ef207a81\u0022\u003EClimate Change\u2014Sink Credits\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269d4893674fc47258882cdde626a9361\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Does the Government stand by the advice of Cabinet Paper POL (00)26 from the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade on climate change that \u201CWe also seek to maintain a high level of environmental discipline by allowing owners of sink credits to trade them freely on the international market.\u201D, and that \u201CNew Zealand made it clear during the Kyoto negotiations that we do not intend to use sink credits to\u2014in effect\u2014cross-subsidise our emitting sectors, allowing them to avoid taking action.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00225e3c150ff1ab4129b5671bd4ed4d3b50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e3c150ff1ab4129b5671bd4ed4d3b50\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E The advice referred to\u2014by the Hon Phil Goff in 2000\u2014needs to be seen in the context within which it was set. That was the international position for New Zealand in the negotiations that were taking place in 2000 on the rules of the Kyoto Protocol, and in particular on whether any limits should be placed around the use of forest sinks to meet emission reduction targets. New Zealand\u2019s position was that there should not be limits on the international trading of sink credits and that emitting sectors also had responsibility for taking action to reduce emissions. The outcome of the international negotiations was that the sink credits were able to be traded internationally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a500c5018b046f5a7a5929e30dac15b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What explanation is he giving, as Minister of Foreign Affairs, on why the Government reversed its policy of allocating Kyoto forest owners carbon credits; and does he support the Government\u2019s decision to nationalise those credits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227978ae269b0c40d5946b846775d4cb77\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The member should really direct his question to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues. Let me tell the member, for his edification, that the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative constitutes a sinks trading mechanism. It allows landowners to receive sink credits. Each credit is expected to be tradable on the international market. The Government\u2019s recent discussion paper on sustainable land management and climate change included options to encourage afforestation. The Government is considering public submissions on this issue. No policy decisions have been made. The Government has announced its intention to investigate options for a broad-based emissions trading scheme for New Zealand. New Zealand expects all sectors of its economy to contribute to climate change mitigation in the long term. The question of the international linkages of such a scheme is under consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8deba6a3f944013985c4a612ade7582\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has he had any difficulties in explaining the policy on nationalising Kyoto forest owners\u2019 credits, noting that in the last Parliament his spokesperson Jim Peters said of that Government decision: \u201CNew Zealand First is flabbergasted at this back-door socialism.\u201D or is he now an apologist internationally for that back-door socialism?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b49db412d62d44829c9739e50cc7b3cc\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: As per usual, if the member is given two questions he gets his facts wrong again. What we said back then was in respect of the policy back then, and there have been some changes. There are future decisions to be made, as I said in my last answer. If Dr Smith wishes to make this an issue on the question of climate change, I ask him to refer his questions to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues. If he wants advice on foreign policy, he has come to the right man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022248c98f3dca54c0aa8c740fce176380a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has he had any difficulty, as Minister of Foreign Affairs, in explaining that in the 18 months since New Zealand First formed a confidence and supply agreement with the Government, 8 million trees have been felled and not replanted, given that with much fanfare he announced on 24 July \u201CNew Zealand First proposes an extra 10 million trees a year be planted over the next 10 years\u2014as a minimum.\u201D\u2014or was that a typo and \u201Cplanted\u201D should have been \u201Ccut\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ada1238d9314ed9aefd6a311b8c2a24\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: There are two parts to that question. First of all, I have had no difficulty whatsoever internationally on this issue\u2014that is a fact. If members ask my officials, they will confirm that. But on the second part\u2014the enlightened, visionary policy that I announced on 24 July up at Russell, one of our oldest settlements in this country\u2014we still stand by the planting of 10 million - plus trees a year. That will change this country dramatically and better enable us, as a country, to meet some of our future obligations. It also gives us options. But when the Minister says it is not happening, that does not mean we have abandoned our desire to persuade the Government to one day bring it to reality. We will not give up, because getting the right policies implemented into Government programmes is what we are famous for. Some talk; some do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022289a6d9c980341aab643fe55a8874136\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table the official Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry reports that show that 8 million trees per year have been cut down since New Zealand First announced its policy on planting 10 million trees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a11c51cc9ade4b3b8ceca61f48481992\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection to that? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220bb7d1fab8a14590bd4d1884ec84581b\u0022\u003E Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4ef853ab17b4896b1c10c7b79b3f8e4\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022170f5c93105842c28e2c581bd81d9008\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022170f5c93105842c28e2c581bd81d9008\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Associate Minister for Senior Citizens):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. The third reading of this bill marks one of the final stages in paving the way for the SuperGold card to be launched in August this year. New Zealand First campaigned on a dedicated seniors card at the last election. We made such a card a cornerstone of our supply and confidence agreement, and we have worked since that time to bring it to fruition. The SuperGold card recognises the immeasurable contribution our seniors and veterans have made and continue to make to New Zealand society. From August this year the SuperGold card will be available to approximately 540,000 New Zealand residents who are aged 65 or over or who are aged under 65 and receive New Zealand superannuation or a veteran\u2019s pension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe benefits of the card are many and, moreover, they can be expected to grow over time. Some members may know that seniors cards have been available in Australia for some 15 years now. We know from the experience there that the seniors card system over there has improved dramatically over time. As well as enabling senior citizens to access commercial discounts from SuperGold card business partners, the card will help them to access the wide range of central and local government entitlement services and concessions already available to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe card and the information services that support it will be a focal point for ensuring that seniors know all about the assistance currently available, and to be available, to them, and ensuring that they can go about getting it. There are a host of benefits so legion that I cannot possibly list them all now. [Interruption] For the benefit of the member for Coromandel, who goes around disabusing people of the truth on this matter and says all sorts of things that are fictional when she knows from this House and from the law\u2014if she only understood a part of it\u2014that what she is foreboding as being likely to happen is not a fact, is not the law, and is not going to happen, I ask her to forget about the mangroves and try to focus on something serious for a while in her political life, as brief as that will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIn this way, the card will be a platform\u2014a vehicle providing our seniors with the help and information they need to live healthy and independent lives now and in the years ahead. It will replace the community services card for eligible cardholders aged 65 and over, and the superannuation card. Cardholders will be offered the option of a photo\u2014I ask members to notice the words \u201Coption of a photo\u201D\u2014on their card. That will be useful for those who do not have a driver\u2019s licence or other form of photo ID. Veterans with war and emergency service may opt to receive a specially branded veterans\u2019 version of the card. There will also be a dedicated SuperGold card website, 0800 phone number, and printed directory promoting the range of entitlements, concessions, and discounts available to cardholders across the country from central government, local authorities, and businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ELet us consider the provisions of the bill and clear up some of the confusion, wanton and egregious as it has been, that was apparent during the second reading debate. As members will be aware, the bill makes two amendments to section 132A of the Social Security Act 1964, which is an existing provision that enables regulations to be made for the issue and use of entitlement cards. I repeat: it is an existing provision. The first amendment in Part 1 will allow regulations to be made allowing for cardholder photographs to be placed on entitlement cards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224720ddcec5a4ccbb7be9da237c6a954\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t say optional.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e77551ef039447ea386dc0cfe6fe57e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It is optional. Section 132A provides a generic regulation-making power for the issue and use of entitlement cards. Although the amendment has been promoted by the probable desire to provide for an optional photograph on the SuperGold card, the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill appropriately amends this generic regulation-making power. Now there you have it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b058037383d4d74aab361390d3852b2\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: No word \u201Coption\u201D in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262297eb8ba904106b8bbebc25f54f38f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It is not too difficult, and I hope that member has finally got it, instead of being some doomsaying Cassandra, as Ron Mark says. But she does not know what the word \u201CCassandra\u201D means or where it comes from, and never will know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Law Society\u2019s submission to the Social Services Committee asked that the committee satisfies itself that it is appropriate for a power of this scope to be conferred by the proposed clause. The select committee did consider that issue but did not believe it appropriate, so therefore recommended no changes to the bill. The regulations relating to the issue and use of the SuperGold card to be made under the amended section 132A(1) will reflect the decision that the photograph will be optional. There are issues to do with accountability oversight processes and the Regulation Review Committee\u2019s ability, in the future, to look at this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe second amendment provides for barcodes on entitlement cards in time as technology changes, as it will, and for microchip technology to be used in relation to entitlement cards. Now, let us deal, once and for all, with the misleading and vexatious claims made by some in this House who have sought to sully this great development for our seniors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fee7660498a41ea8940ce633601e3b2\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: They hate old people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ed91370448e4122a3212c3324b06998\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know whether they hate old people, or what it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EMicrochip technology will not be part of the card when it is launched in August, but we must face reality. In the not too distant future banks and retailers will be moving to chip technology, as it is more secure, as a medium, for storing information. Here in Parliament these members\u2014all of them\u2014are using microchip technology for their security. They have it on their person all of the time. I wish that some of them had it on their person between their lips, actually, and horizontally. So we would be very negligent if we did not future-proof this card against these developments. We are getting ready for the future. This is the 21st century. It is now 2007, for goodness\u2019 sake. The Luddite National Party should wake up. There is a huge change coming in the world, and we should ensure that one of the biggest consumer forces in this country\u2014the elderly\u2014can be part of this great change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe amendment allows for the potential use of a card containing a microchip, only if all the safeguards are met. The safeguards are already in place to ensure that the Privacy Commissioner and the State Services Commission will be consulted before any future use of microchip technology. I have given all the assurances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIt is coming up to the end of my time, and I want to close by saying that the SuperGold card is an important initiative that will provide real, tangible benefits that will make a difference to the lives of senior citizens. The benefits that are capable of being negotiated\u2014business by business, service by service\u2014are huge. All the new passports today carry microchipping. Maurice Williamson wanted to microchip all of our cars; I recall that National\u2019s spokesman on transport wanted to microchip every car. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI say to National Party members that they should cut out this drivel and nonsense. They are trying to scare some good, wonderful old country folk, who, after all, know who can be relied upon here. Between the National Party and New Zealand First there is only one option. The National Party\u2019s record is disastrous. It promised to get rid of the surtax and when it came into office in 1990, instead of getting rid of it, it put it up! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229acec9d437524c3b8c2eb738325f9b31\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: You were part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d17bbba119534f9fbc4251fe090c9ca0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I was in Cabinet and I was sacked on 1 October 1991 for spelling out the tragedy of the National Party\u2019s betrayal to its constituency. What happened in 1993? Within 18 months National had gone from having the biggest ever win in an election to a hung Parliament\u2014within 3 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis card will honour the wonderful contribution that the elderly have made, are currently making, and will go on making to New Zealand society. The SuperGold card will be a physical reminder that the cardholder is a valued member of our society with the right to be treated with dignity and respect. I am glad that my colleagues in New Zealand First and other members of Parliament in the present Government, including Labour, United Future, and others, had the prescience of mind to support this great initiative, the benefits of which are infinite and will be legion over time. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002206480d4dc0354b889d3d4e865d5da35d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206480d4dc0354b889d3d4e865d5da35d\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E Unlike the Minister who has just sat down, I do not intend to indulge in 10 minutes\u2019 worth of personal abuse, because that is certainly about all we got from the Minister of Foreign Affairs. We got an awful lot of talk about the veterans card and the SuperGold card, neither of which, by the way, is mentioned in this legislation. The legislation is called the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022667f5fd946e24dea89d7a5a7c64be462\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How do you know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249b1258e94f044eb99c1a7bcdc979abf\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister asks how I know. I know because I was the deputy chair of the Social Services Committee, and I also know because I can read. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the things we can say about this bill is that it does not apply just to those two aforementioned cards\u2014we have never seen those cards, for a start. It applies to all social security entitlement cards, should any be issued, and that is something the public needed to know about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI thought it was actually quite lacking in generosity for the Minister not to acknowledge the fact that the National Party has supported this bill all the way through, yet all we got was a whole lot of abuse. He should note that this bill does not deliver exactly what he says it does. What he does not understand is that this bill will entitle a social welfare Minister or an equivalent Minister to put out a card containing the microchipped details of all unemployment beneficiaries or all domestic purposes beneficiaries. If the State is to do that, then I think it is probably something the public should know about. I am not saying that we oppose it; I am saying that we think the public should have known about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThat is why last week National members worked with other members of this Parliament, including the M\u0101ori Party, United Future, Taito Phillip Field, the Greens, and the ACT party, to make sure that Taito Phillip Field\u2019s amendment came through. We wanted to make sure there was some overview from the Privacy Commissioner and the State Services Commission. It was an instance of some of the parties in this House working together to deal with an issue National members had raised legitimately in the select committee. The issue is that when we are to have microchips inserted into cards, we need to know what it is all about, who will be affected, what information will be on those cards, and also how the privacy of people will be protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EMost members in this House felt that point was legitimate. By working together, they were able to make the Government and New Zealand First sit up, take notice, and go along with that, because they had the numbers. I notice that the member Russell Fairbrother chortles hugely, but it is true\u201461 happens to be more than 60 by anyone\u2019s count, I say to Mr Fairbrother, and members worked together to make sure that happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhat did members get for the hours they spent on this bill? They got abuse from the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who is very, very angry because, quite clearly, the man does not understand that this bill does not relate just to a veterans card or to a SuperGold card. Neither of those cards is mentioned; the bill actually relates to any entitlement card for social security beneficiaries. As I said before, we do not necessarily have a problem with that. It is something we would always have to look at, take back to caucus, and discuss. The problem is that this had not been known to the public until the media put it on the front page of the New Zealand Herald last week. The point was picked up by the media because they suddenly realised that the SuperGold card was, in fact, a microchipping ID card by stealth. That was the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI take the Minister\u2019s assurances that this bill will be meant only for the veterans card and the SuperGold card, but I would ask the House why that is not actually stated in this bill. Why has this bill been allowed to be open slather in terms of those entitlement cards, with no restrictions at all, until we got that amendment through last week to make sure that there was some overview? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe would like to see veterans be able to have some acknowledgment for their service through this bill. Although many veterans simply said to me that the SuperGold card is a Clayton\u2019s card, I think they should probably wait and see what actually comes from it, because apparently they will be able to get discounts from some commercial entities, and possibly even discounts on rates. Many other national superannuitants have said that for them it is just like the old-age pension card, and that they can get a bus pass. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EMany people feel that the card will not actually deliver what it has been promoted as delivering. Also, the veterans and old-age pensioners will be asking whether this card will get them their hip operations, their knee operations, and their cataract operations done in time. Will they get preference? They feel, after many, many years, that they probably deserve a bit of preference in the hospital system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIf one looks at the National Party policy on veterans, one will certainly see that in 2005 we said we believed that that was exactly what should happen for our veterans, and that they deserved to be acknowledged for the work they did for their country and for the fact that they risked their lives for us. As I have said, we will support this bill. We have supported it through its passage, but we have had concerns. I am glad that those concerns have been listened to in the House, and I am glad that we have been able to come to a reasonable amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u002212882674ec9f48a3af6aa2865a18132c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212882674ec9f48a3af6aa2865a18132c\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have just listened to the speech of the previous speaker, Judith Collins, who busily danced on the head of a pin. She tried to make fatuous comments so she could put out yet another press release on the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill to take the credit for its passing\u2014knowing that the bill would be very popular with the senior members of our society. She will want to obfuscate the fact that in her last speech in the House she said that it was bad legislation, and that National members voted for the bill in the Social Services Committee only for some spurious reason of support and to get the matter through the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe last time Judith Collins spoke about the bill in the Chamber she noted that National always reserved its objection to the bill. But now, of course, as the legislation becomes a reality, she rushes off to issue her next press statement and take unto herself the credit for work she has not done. She does not quite fully mention that this bill has gone through, over her vigorous rhetoric and opposition, and that there has been no constructive input into the process from either her or her party. If she omits that from her press statement, that will perhaps be in keeping with the continued contribution\u2014and I use that word in a very ironic way\u2014of the National Party to the progress of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EWhat the National Party does not like about this bill is that it recognises the valued members of this society, as the Minister said. The National Party, being an entity that recognises value in terms of dollars, is unable to see that a gold entitlement card is a statement to each and every senior citizen that the work those senior citizens have contributed to build up New Zealand to what it is today is valued, even if each individual senior citizen with a card has no great material wealth. It is itself a statement of recognition and a statement that, finally, this country recognises the very many ways that it is a good country because of the work of our senior citizens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EWe heard again in the previous speech from that member, who sought to dance on the head of a pin, that she tried to suggest that there was some untoward conspiracy here\u2014perhaps she should become a sub-editor on Investigate magazine\u2014and that there was an attack on recipients of social security benefits generally. I have to say that this matter was not raised at the Social Services Committee by her or by the National Party at any stage, otherwise it would have been explicitly dealt with in the report, and I would have voted against the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI repeat, at this stage of the third reading, that the purpose of this bill is simply to make amendments to the Social Security Act 1964 and the Births, Deaths, and Marriages Registration Act 1995 to enable full effect to be given to the Government\u2019s intention in regard to the SuperGold card. We are talking here about the SuperGold card. That is what this bill is about, and that is the bill that has gone before Parliament and will be passed today, in the fullness of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EJust as National members, as they prepare for their press releases, are trying to take credit where it is not due unto themselves, they have also tried to take from Taito Phillip Field the credit for his amendment, which reinforced the steps that are handy but not necessary to ensure the sanctity of privacy of information\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022077836c274544c288ddbfea049bed5a7\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There has been a continuous barrage from across the Chamber each time somebody from the Government benches has spoken. It has been very irritating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa529cedae534df88d0e8034f005fb1c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for her point of order. I just say that I do not believe the interjections were bothering the member who was addressing the House. Had the interjections done so, then I would have pointed out Speakers\u2019 rulings 58/4 and 59/1 to the member on my left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229919c3bf6db944c48ebc3b5701e087ea\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not want to challenge your ruling, Mr Assistant Speaker, but the point that the honourable Tariana Turia is making is not that the interjections are interfering with Mr Fairbrother\u2019s speech, but that she is trying to listen to the speech and cannot do so because members sitting close to her on the National benches are making too much noise. I do not think she is objecting on behalf of Mr Fairbrother; she is saying she cannot hear the speech that is under way. I think that is a reasonable request that is in her right to make as the co-leader of a party in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231f4c70c8a904736905a28c489c62684\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I am prepared to start again if that would assist\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e09867471b547be91e39bd533d63a45\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not think we need to start again. But I have taken on board what the honourable member has mentioned, and I will keep a watch on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e8d433fcbfc47d1a4cefe772020a67b\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: I am reminded of the saying that empty vessels make the most noise. Perhaps the honourable Tariana Turia would have drawn that conclusion too, as she listened to the barrage that has now subdued\u2014which is an obvious admission from the barrackers on the other side of the House that they were making extensive noise in an effort to hide themselves away from the facts of the handiness of this card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis SuperGold card recognises, as I have already said, the contribution that senior citizens make to New Zealand. That is something the National Party cannot stomach. If people measure their success by the size of their bank balance, then they will fail to recognise the contribution of those who measure their success in other ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe other thing that sticks in the gall of the National Party is that this SuperGold card fulfils a commitment, and fulfilling a commitment to our senior citizens is a matter that the National Party has struggled with in the past. I take just one example of that. On 1 April 1999 the floor used to set New Zealand superannuation and veterans pension rates was cut from 65 percent to 60 percent by the previous National Government. A cut was brought in to reduce the floor level of payment, then Jenny Shipley explained to veterans in a letter of October 1998 that doing this\u2014in some weird way\u2014would be of benefit to the superannuitants and the recipients of veterans pensions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003ESo this bill upsets National members because it fulfils a commitment made to New Zealand First as part of its confidence and supply agreement with the Labour-led Government. Of course, that confidence and supply agreement is well entitled, because this country has confidence that this Labour-led Government will honour its commitments to its coalition partner and its confidence and supply partners, and, in doing so, it will honour its commitments to the people of New Zealand and, in this case, to senior citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E So what does the card offer? It offers discounts from participating businesses for senior citizens. Here is the rub, and the point, that the Opposition has tried to exploit with its fear-based argument. Participating businesses are moving from the swipe card\u2014the barcode access\u2014to microchipping, and it is becoming an increasingly regular form of commerce to move from a barcode to a microchip-type of database. To enable participating businesses to offer easy access to concessions to senior citizens, the card needs to be framed legally so that the improvements in technology can be absorbed therein. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis is not to suggest that this measure is any invasion of privacy. This is not intended to open the floodgates of rampant State intrusion into people\u2019s lives. This is simply a logical and clear step whereby this Parliament and its laws can keep up with developing activities in the business world. Concessions on Government and local authority services and business concessions can be obtained by the use of the entitlement card\u2014the SuperGold card\u2014that this bill is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe card will be sent automatically to people receiving New Zealand superannuation or a veterans pension, with a special version going to war and emergency service veterans. But that is not to say that recipients of the card have to have their photograph on it. There was an interjection during the Minister\u2019s speech with a suggestion from the National Party that photographs would be compulsory. The interjection was to the effect of: \u201CWhere does it say it is optional?\u201D. If I direct the interjector, Sandra Goudie, to clause 5, she will see that it provides merely \u201Cfor cardholders\u2019 photographs to be affixed\u201D. It does not make it mandatory. It does not state that if people receive a card, they have to have their photograph on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f4c756a2e96473f99cbcfc7bb931558\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t say \u201Coptional\u201D, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5f0159d77e5417f9bbf946233151cec\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: I suggest that that member takes her time to look at the dictionary and see what the word \u201Cprovide\u201D means. When the bill states \u201Cproviding for cardholders\u2019 photographs\u201D, it means it allows a cardholder to opt in and have the convenience of a photograph. If that is too obscure for the member, then I suggest she goes back to English 101\u2014or perhaps she should aspire to English 101\u2014and get an understanding of the language used in everyday life as well as in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe card will carry the holder\u2019s name, a number, and whether the holder receives New Zealand superannuation, a veterans pension, or has a community services card. If the cardholder chooses to have a photograph for ID purposes, then that will be done pursuant to clause 5. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EWhat the National Party does not like is that about 540,000 people will be eligible to receive the card\u2014over half a million people will be eligible to receive the card\u2014and cardholders\u2019 spouses who are under 65 will also be able to access the commercial discounts. What National members do not like is that these benefits will be available in less than 3 months. They will be available from August of this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThere is the rub for the National Party\u2014this card\u2019s basic premise is that of common sense. This card offers benefits, it offers convenience, and it keeps up with modern technology, with the protections that surround that technology. This bill is a very good bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4dd226d86a848e9a0832d0ad0bee1c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4dd226d86a848e9a0832d0ad0bee1c3\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. In doing so I acknowledge that National is supporting this bill, in spite of the rhetoric from the member who has just spoken and from the Minister in charge of this bill. This bill has been dubbed the \u201CSuperGold Card Discount Bill\u201D, and we do have to ask ourselves why. All the rhetoric is about the SuperGold discount card, yet the bill does not mention the SuperGold card once. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003ENational members have no problem with what has been achieved through this SuperGold card\u2014well, we think something will be achieved but nobody actually knows what will accrue to this card. We would be delighted if some real benefits could come out of this for our senior citizens, and we acknowledge the great work that Grey Power has done. It is to be congratulated on all its efforts with regard to the SuperGold card. We recognise the importance of the advocacy role of Grey Power and we are pleased to support the recognition of that and its contribution, and the contribution our senior citizens have made and continue to make to our society. We cannot overstate that in any way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EBut I do take issue with the Rt Hon Winston Peters and the Minister, Rick Barker, over the wording of the bill. At no time did they make much reference to the bill. It was all about the SuperGold discount card. Yet the bill has only two parts to it, and not once in the bill are the words \u201CSuperGold discount card\u201D mentioned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe purpose of Part 1 is to provide regulation-making powers. What is that for? The regulation-making powers are to provide for photographs and to provide for microchipping. But the regulations will actually constrain what is going to happen around those two provisions. Not once is the word \u201Coptional\u201D mentioned. The explanatory note of the bill goes on about the photograph being optional. Well, given that that is written in the explanatory note, I guess the Government can be held to account\u2014if it is still there at any future date\u2014to ensure that that provision is indeed optional. But there is absolutely nothing that says \u201Coptional\u201D in this bill\u2014we only have to read the wording. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThat was something that was made quite clear by the New Zealand Law Society. In fact, the Rt Hon Winston Peters actually rubbished the New Zealand Law Society\u2019s submission, which pointed out that the wording is quite specific. Paragraph (ba), inserted by clause 5(1), states: \u201Cproviding for cardholders\u2019 photographs to be affixed to or imaged into a category of entitlement cards and prescribing procedures, requirements, and other matters in relation to those photographs:\u201D. Clause 5(2) also amends section 132A(2) by inserting the words \u201Cor a microchip embedded in them.\u2019 \u201D So regulations allow for those two activities to take place with regard to entitlement cards, not with regard to the SuperGold card. The bill does not mention the SuperGold discount card. The bill talks about entitlement cards\u2014any entitlement card. That means any card issued by this Government that gives people an entitlement to something. The SuperGold card itself is not actually mentioned at all. I just cannot understand why there is so much rhetoric around the SuperGold card when the bill is actually quite clear, quite simple, and quite specific around a number of issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EHowever, the one thing that is needed with regard to the SuperGold card is for the Government to be able to access the information in order to provide that SuperGold card to the 540,000 senior citizens who are entitled to it, who I am sure would include the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228959d264071742c3a9b51e65aa04dce2\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Not yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8965314a2664c60b698d4d2e86a91ec\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, not yet! A dead giveaway! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe Government has to legislatively provide for itself to be able to access the information about the 540,000-odd senior citizens who want to have access to the SuperGold card. But the bill is quite clear that it allows the Government just to access the information from the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths and Marriages, and it amends the Births, Deaths, and Marriages Registration Act 1995 to that effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EClause 8(1) amends schedule 1A of that Act by omitting the words \u201CDepartment of Work and Income\u201D and substituting \u201CMinistry of Social Development\u201D. That allows the ministry to have access to that information. But if we look at clause 8(2) we see that it states: \u201CParagraph (b) of the item relating to the Department of Work and Income in Schedule 1A is amended by adding \u2018or a card the availability of which is based principally on the age and residence of a person, or of his or her spouse or civil union partner, or former spouse or civil union partner.\u201D So, basically, the bill is about accessing information from the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths and Marriages on any entitlement card relating to those specific matters. It does not state: \u201Caccessing information only on information for the purposes of the SuperGold card\u201D. It is for any entitlement card, based on those particular issues in the bill that I have outlined. It is important that when we are talking about matters to do with our senior citizens, we do not mislead them in any way and that we give them the facts of the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the bill, those are the facts of the matter. There are only two parts to the bill. They are quite specific and quite clear, and relate only in a generalist way to the SuperGold card by the mere fact that the bill is about entitlement cards per se. We do not know anything very much at all about the SuperGold card, other than the rhetoric that has been espoused in this Chamber. We cannot say for certain what the discounts are. We cannot say for certain who might miss out and who might be those persons who are fully entitled to the SuperGold card.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ba02ee8cd1f48d3a6f3da8e693fea62\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What would the member like to see on the card?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b11d4e9247864210ac90b0ac48750f75\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: We have no idea what the intention is for the SuperGold card. All we know is that we have a bill in front of us right now, and there has been very little from the two Government members who have spoken thus far about the actual content of the bill. It has largely been rhetoric about the SuperGold card itself. We are in a position of waiting to see, when that SuperGold card is revealed in the time to come, whether the trumpeting has been warranted. We hope that our senior citizens will not be disappointed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWe do not know what will be on that SuperGold card, but we do know that in order to issue the SuperGold card, access to information from the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths and Marriages is needed. This is fascinating, really, because here we have a Government wanting to access that information, while at the same time closing down the public\u2019s access to the same information. I find that ironic in the extreme. It is to be hoped that in the future, that will not occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EIn essence, the bill is quite simple. It is all about entitlement cards per se\u2014any entitlement card\u2014and the regulation-making powers in regard to those entitlement cards. National supports the sorts of benefits that may possibly accrue to our senior citizens. We absolutely agree that senior citizens have done their time and deserve some recognition for their huge contribution to our society. We also would like to support the acknowledgment of that. We have consistently done so, which is why we have also consistently supported the passing of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022148100ec94b9445fadc512738266144e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022148100ec94b9445fadc512738266144e\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to rise on behalf of New Zealand First to take a call in the third reading of the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. We in New Zealand First are very pleased to see this card becoming a reality. It has been very sad to hear in this debate the cynicism of the National Party speakers. They do not really like to see anybody receiving discounts or anything that they cannot get or have not initiated. I seem to recall that it was no hassle for the National Party to get information on superannuitants at the last election. I remember some letters were sent out. So how the National members can get up and say it is shameful to have knowledge of people\u2019s superannuation details is really beyond me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EI find it very surprising, too, that the National Party\u2019s support for this bill has been quite reluctant, particularly when we know that senior citizens and veterans are looking forward to the SuperGold card and to receiving some discounts from participating business, so that their pensions can go a little bit further than they do at present. At last, New Zealand\u2019s senior citizens will be able to enjoy some of the benefits that their Australian counterparts enjoy\u2014and have done so for some time. That is basically how it should be here in New Zealand. If it can be done in Australia, it can definitely be done here in New Zealand. This type of approach is long overdue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIt has been a very great shame that this card has been caught up in the general hysteria over microchipping. Seniors have nothing to fear over the SuperGold card. A card like this is used safely by Australian senior citizens, and the same will apply here in New Zealand. As the Rt Hon Winston Peters said in question time last Thursday, the SuperGold card will not be issued with a microchip but will have a magnetic strip and barcode. The information contained on them will be limited. It is quite interesting to see that the legislation has a clause that deals with microchips, but that is basically aimed at future-proofing the card. We know that magnetic strips and barcode technology are rapidly going to become redundant. We are also very aware that banks and retailers are already moving towards the use of microchip technology. When it comes to this particular card, it would be totally negligent for us not to at least think of trying to future-proof the legislation. If that clause had not been in the legislation, New Zealand First would be castigated for a lack of vision or forward planning. Really, in this particular case it is a bit like being the meat in the sandwich. The scaremongering directed at our seniors has been quite scandalous. If the SuperGold card is to be functional in the future, it will require that technology. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EBut, again, we emphasise that the SuperGold card will not be issued with a microchip when it is launched in August. Like all other MPs here in this House, the New Zealand First members know that any move towards microchip technology will require a thorough review by both the Privacy Commissioner and the State Services Commission. That will always be the case, despite the scaremongering we have heard. Microchip technology is not being slipped on to the SuperGold card secretly in the dead of night. We on this side of the House have no desire to see any information related to our seniors be abused or misused. The checks are already in place to provide the strongest possible protection against the misuse of information. Our seniors and veterans\u2014and we know there are over 540,000 of them\u2014deserve far better than to have this sort of fear put into them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EI believe that the SuperGold card is an excellent example of what can occur in the MMP environment and of how MMP actually works in practice. We must acknowledge the Hon Ruth Dyson, the Minister for Senior Citizens, for her support and work to ensure that the SuperGold card becomes a reality. At the last election New Zealand First campaigned on a dedicated seniors card, and we have worked since that time to ensure that it has become a reality. We are very aware in New Zealand First that those with goodwill can work together in the best interests of all New Zealanders. With this particular card, New Zealand First did not promise the moon and deliver dust\u2014as many others have often done at election time. We followed through on the policy, and we will continue to do so with regard to every one of the items in our confidence and supply agreement with the Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe are very pleased to hear that a website is to be set up when the card is launched, to keep seniors informed of developments. I accessed the Australian Seniors Card website and was very interested to see the competitions, discount directories, short-term offers, latest discounts, and travel discounts\u2014the list just goes on. I am sure that if all of that information is included on the New Zealand SuperGold card website, then our seniors will be absolutely delighted. For those people who do not use the Internet\u2014and we know there are some\u2014there is a freephone number. We must also remind them that a published, printed directory will also be available to promote the range of entitlements, concessions, and discounts that are available to cardholders from central government, local authorities, and businesses. Really, seniors will have all of that information available to assist them to make the best possible use of the benefits available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe in New Zealand First see the SuperGold card and the benefits that will be available as being complementary to the Grey Power card. Both of those cards will have the common objective of ensuring the best and most extensive use of the purchasing power of every senior\u2019s income. We believe and we know, particularly from the Australian experience, that those cards\u2014both of them\u2014will provide tangible benefits that will make a real difference to the lives of our senior citizens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand First we have always maintained that the treatment of our seniors sends a clear signal of our status as a developed nation. This card recognises the contribution that our seniors and veterans have made, and continue to make, in our society. We know for a fact that the voluntary sector, in particular, is helped hugely by our senior citizens\u2014St John Ambulance, Meals on Wheels, SeniorNet, and the many other organisations that our seniors belong to. There are far too many to list here. Our seniors make a really great contribution, and it is timely to ensure there is recognition of that. I think that all of us here in this House have to recognise that many of our seniors\u2014our parents\u2014are busy looking after their grandchildren after school so that those children do not have to go into after-school care, and caring for sick children on the days that parents have to go to work. Seniors do make a huge contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EOur senior citizens can choose to use their SuperGold card as a form of photo ID if they so wish, and that will be entirely at their own discretion\u2014it is optional. I know that many of us use our drivers\u2019 licences as ID for that particular purpose. Some of the senior citizens I have spoken to are actually looking forward to having their photos on their SuperGold card, because they believe that it will actually safeguard their card.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe can assure people that the benefits of the SuperGold card cannot be discussed prior to its launch, because they are commercially sensitive. Nobody can say which businesses are participating in the SuperGold card before the card is actually launched. I know we have heard criticism of that from National members over the past few weeks, but they should just wait\u2014help is on the way, the discounts are coming, the directories will come, and people will be able to find out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is very pleased that this bill has now reached this stage in the process. We support this bill, and we look forward to the launch of the card in August. We believe that our seniors have earned the SuperGold card, and we look forward to receiving their feedback on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb506920c97e40469558545663b90f9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb506920c97e40469558545663b90f9c\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will be supporting this bill, on the grounds that it will enable pensioners to get better access to services, and to discounts from various agencies\u2014both Government and private agencies. We hope it will give an impetus to various firms, and to those in the local body and Government sectors, to provide greater discounts. If we travel to Australia, for example, or to Ireland, we find that pensioners there, or people getting superannuation, often get considerably greater discounts on a greater range of things than is the case here in New Zealand. Hopefully, this SuperGold card will be an advance for pensioners and beneficiaries on superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThis legislation has been controversial, beyond the basic nature of the card, in terms of the legislative provision for microchips to be added to the cards. There was an argument from the various parties in the House that were rather cautious about putting microchips on the cards at this stage\u2014or about giving legislative provision for that at this stage\u2014and they wanted much more investigation into privacy issues before that took place. So there was a difference between the Government side where members said they wanted this legislated in advance, and the rest of us on this side of the House who thought: \u201CWhy not inquire first and, if need be, legislate later?\u201D. If we did have a proper inquiry or investigation into microchips and all their implications, there might well be consensus in the House and it would not be difficult to put through legislation for that\u2014possibly even in statutes amendment legislation. I think all the scaremongering about how difficult that would be is quite wrong. It is much better to err on the cautious side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe did make some progress during the debate. Taito Phillip Field\u2019s amendment, for example, talked about the State Services Commission, the Privacy Commissioner, and other State agencies being consulted before an Order in Council was enacted to put microchips on cards. That goes a little way towards satisfying our concerns, but not the full distance. It is good that the Privacy Commissioner is to be involved there, and perhaps the fact that the Social Services Committee recommended a review of the principles governing the use of such technology could lead to a fairly urgent review, of some form\u2014one involving public input. Whether that is another select committee review or some broader review, I think that a review is required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe concerns of those who were worried about what the Privacy Commissioner called function creep\u2014it could also be called mission creep in another circumstance\u2014were that there are dangers there. It is said that the card will be voluntary, but we can easily see how in practice a voluntary card can become a compulsory card, either through reward or punishment, if the use of the card is extended to other categories of the population\u2014other beneficiaries, or whatever\u2014or if people are denied access to certain services without the card. That could take place in either public or private institutions. It could also become more obligatory if there are extra rewards, or if people are being told that if they want extra rewards they have to have their cards on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe other problem is that once we have a microchip system\u2014and if the microchip has sufficient capacity, if it is a fairly modern microchip\u2014all sorts of other things can be added to it. We know that the microchips in our passports have facial recognition systems digitalised on the chips, which are used particularly when we pass through the United States immigration service, and when officials take photographs and compare those with the digitalised versions of our faces on the microchips in our passports. Of course, when we go through US border control we have our fingerprints taken, which are digitalised and kept in the records there. Those sorts of recognition biometrics can be added to a microchip at any time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe other thing about microchips that we really have to go into is the way in which the information on them can be easily transferred to databases and be the basis for a more general ID card in the community. We have to move very cautiously so that we do not go as quickly down the road as some other countries in Europe, and Australia, are going, towards generalised ID cards. There are huge privacy problems involved when generalised ID cards are used for virtually everything in society\u2014for what we are doing, our preferences, where we are moving, and all sorts of things. Those can be so easily kept track of, if we have a generalised ID card, of course, and we know that that ability exists to some degree already in the various cards we have. But if everything is wrapped up in one card, it can be even more intrusive in a privacy sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAlthough we live in a fairly tolerant society now, I think we always have to work out our privacy legislation, and what we do with things like ID cards, on the basis that at some future time we might have a less democratic Government or in some ways a more repressive Government. We do not want to set up a system to enable a more responsive Government to control the population to a large degree. Someone said to me that if we think back to Nazi Germany, if they had had all this really modern surveillance technology with universal ID cards, we know that none of the Jews would ever have escaped from being sent off to concentration camps. They would have been so easy to track down. So we have to think of the use of this technology not in terms of the liberal form of society we have now, but in terms of a more repressive society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThat is not to say that we are against microchips on various cards. There is nothing wrong with bus cards, debit cards, cards for convenience, and all those sorts of cards, some of which have photo ID and some of which do not. No one is against the use of modern technology in terms of cards and in terms of microchips, but we have to be careful how that is implemented, particularly on State-provided cards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI also take up the point Judith Collins made that it is rather strange that on the one hand we have this legislation that enables people to in effect have access to birth dates and other information from the Births, Deaths, and Marriages register on the card, but on the other hand we have a Births, Deaths, and Marriages bill before the House in which the Government is trying to reduce all public access to information in that register, information that has been open since 1848 and that is so critical for historians, biographers, genealogists\u2014anyone doing research of a historical nature. It is so stupid for access to the register to be closed to these people under that bill. There is no reason for it to be closed. It is so stupid to have provisions where one has to wait for 50, 80, or 100 years to get access to information, or one has to get the agreement of the immediate family one is trying to access information about. It is a rather confining sort of bill, and it is in contradiction to the information being provided on the SuperGold card under this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAs I say, the Greens will be voting for this bill because of the advances it will make for pensioners. We will be looking forward to the inquiry into whether microchips should be put in the card, and we will put a serious focus on the privacy issues involved. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u0022d82394a929c340bc9a6b56780a8b0431\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d82394a929c340bc9a6b56780a8b0431\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Today is an auspicious day to be debating the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. May 15 was proclaimed by the United Nations General Assembly in 1993 as the International Day of Families. So as we mark this international day of wh\u0101nau, we turn to thoughts of our kaum\u0101tua, who are at the very heart and core of wh\u0101nau. In thinking about elders and in farewelling the late head of State of Samoa, the M\u0101ori Party takes this moment to express our sympathies at the sad passing of another revered elder, kuia Maera Moekau Couch, who gave her life to the communities of her beloved Pae-o-Hauraki and R\u0101paki. It was not very long ago that this 92-year-old kuia was honoured with an award that recognised the distinctive contribution she had made in encouraging other seniors to play an active role in society. Moe mai e te whaea rangatira ki t\u014D moengaroa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E[Slumber there in your sleep without end, matriarch.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EAny proposals that come into this House to improve the standard of living of our elders, to enhance their access to Government services and entitlements, and to improve the provision of information to them will earn the support of the M\u0101ori Party, particularly because only 4.1 percent of our old people actually live long enough to ever receive superannuation. Our elders are those who provide us with the leadership and the vision to guide our future directions. We in the M\u0101ori Party are very conscious of wanting to protect the special place that they have in our communities, to value their contribution, and to put strategies in place by which we can ensure the continued participation of older people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWe believe that the SuperGold card recognises the contribution our pakeke have made and currently make to Aotearoa, and we are happy to support it. We thank New Zealand First for negotiating such a great opportunity for the elderly in its coalition arrangements, and we thank the Hon Ruth Dyson, the Minister for Senior Citizens, for her support of the card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWe have debated the pros and cons of this bill. We have been aware that in improving the standard of living for seniors, we must also be mindful of the need to ensure that wh\u0101nau members and caregivers are informed of the purpose of the entitlement card and the opportunities that it represents. Far too often, individual entitlements are not promoted to the degree of attracting universal understanding. We do not want the eligibility for particular services to be granted only to those in the know. The well-being of all senior citizens must be guaranteed, and if this card brings with it commercial concessions, thereby reducing the cost of goods and services, we must ensure wh\u0101nau are supported to take up those rights. So we hope that when the first tranche of the SuperGold cards comes off the production line in August, our senior citizens aged 65 and over\u2014or aged under 65 and receiving the veterans pension in their own right\u2014will be well informed of exactly what their entitlements are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EBut we have one very significant concern with regard to this bill. It is the hidden danger behind the honourable intentions of supporting our pakeke, which is of course the element of intrusion and surveillance piloted in this bill: the microchipping proposal. The M\u0101ori Party supported the amendment by Heather Roy to have the microchipping clause removed from the bill, and we did so on the grounds that this bill, as the Law Society advised, was the first occasion on which legislation has authorised the use of microchips on cards. We have heard all the arguments, including those of the Minister, that it would be irresponsible to introduce a discount card without ensuring it could apply the technology of the future, and, of course, we know the future use of radio frequency identification tagging, known as RFID, is not very far off. The microchips introduced under this legislation are just one step along the way towards the global surveillance society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe concern for the M\u0101ori Party has been the way that such a significant proposal has been slipped in the back door, riding on the coat-tails of a proposal designed to support our pakeke and enhance their golden years. I remember when George Orwell\u2019s Nineteen Eighty-Four seemed fanciful fiction, and in that novel \u201Cthought crime\u201D was monitored by the thought police, who had \u201Ctelescreens\u201D in every home and hidden microphones and informers in order to catch the potential \u201Cthought criminals\u201D. The \u201CMinistry of Truth\u201D exercised complete control, subjecting the nation to a re-education to the newspeak of the totalitarian Government. At one point the key player\u2014ironically also with the name of Winston\u2014Winston Smith is told: \u201CBut always\u2014do not forget this, Winston\u2014always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on the enemy who is helpless.\u201D But, of course, the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill is set in 2007, not 1984, and we are given every assurance by the Rt Hon Winston Peters that under this legislation microchip technology will not be introduced without the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s and the State Services Commissioner\u2019s agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe tension for us is in allowing microchips to be introduced. None of us really know what else lies in store. Which other Government social service card will be next? Twenty years after Nineteen Eighty-Four, the 25 privacy commissioners of the European Union adopted an initial position on the use of radio frequency ID technology. In their statement on 19 January 2005, they expressed their concern about the possibility of radio frequency ID technology being able to \u201Cviolate human dignity as well as data protection rights\u201D. The questions we raised at the second reading of this bill reiterated the concerns of New Zealand\u2019s Privacy Commissioner, Marie Shroff: concerns such as who controls the access to the information, what sort of technological protections should be mandated to guarantee privacy, and how to avoid function creep, with the information from the microchipped cards being used for wider purposes than were originally intended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe concerns around microchipping are influenced by a paper from Dr Paul Roth, a professor of law at the University of Otago. In his paper Workplace Privacy Issues Raised by RFID Technology, he describes a case in 2004 where a Mexican Attorney-General and 160 of his employees had rice grain - sized radio frequency ID tags implanted in their arms to regulate access to restricted areas of the headquarters. Then there is the VeriChip, the very first Food and Drug Administration - approved human implantable radio frequency ID microchip. It was approved in 2002 in the United States and is typically implanted in the arm. It is code named by privacy advocates as a \u201Cspy chip\u201D. The primary concern, of course, is that like Big Brother in the Orwellian tale, the movements of a person can be traced without his or her will. These new types of electronic bloodhounds\u2014the bio-chip implants and the biometric fingerprints\u2014may indeed be part of a future that we must all be prepared for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ESo in the context of the SuperGold card, we cannot be oblivious to the risks inherent in the microchipping device. It may not be a case of the \u201CMinistry of Truth\u201D or the thought police, but there are certainly sufficient grounds for concern to have the members of the M\u0101ori Party worried. We welcome the amendment put forward by Taito Phillip Field to provide that the microchipping will go ahead only after consultation with the Privacy Commissioner, the State Services Commissioner, and any other relevant body. We will be following that process with great interest, to ensure that every concern is explored. We remain convinced that the jury is out as to whether the use of microchip technology is of such critical importance to the senior citizen discount cards that one could not have been voted on without the other. But we will not stand in the way of our elders, and it is with their interests at heart that we vote in support of this bill. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u00222bf17690c10940f98e36a24292710eda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bf17690c10940f98e36a24292710eda\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of United Future to speak to the third reading of the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. One of the interesting things happening around the progress of this bill is the number of businesses and organisations that are sending very clear signals that they will be offering discounts for SuperGold cardholders. In fact, one of the reasons why the bill needed to be amended to address the fact that barcoding provisions had been overlooked was that large retail chains have indicated their willingness to honour senior citizens with credible discounts, and they wanted to manage that opportunity from head office rather than to have staff do that at the point of sale. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe passing of this legislation is the beginning of a huge challenge to recruit as much buy-in as is possible to ensure that the potential this policy offers is fully realised. The cost of the card is justified only if there is an allocation of funding to promote it to the business and community sectors. The question remains for me as to whether Government departments will match the private sector in using this mechanism to provide improved and affordable access to health, education, and local government and social services for the over 65s. The tensions that exist between providing fair income rates for superannuitants and the maintenance of a sustainable superannuation scheme into the future mean that it is more than helpful if, underpinning our system for seniors who are on low fixed incomes, we have a system of community support that effectively reduces living costs while encouraging community participation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EPerhaps the other potential for the SuperGold card that most excites to United Future is the opportunity it provides us to tangibly honour our over 65s. Honouring our elders is usually dished up\u2014or neglected\u2014at a family level. Where families do this well, this card will merely supplement their efforts. However, for those who live without significant appreciation and support, this card could make affordable the chance for them to participate in community activities, to belong to community clubs and organisations, and to attend community events. I believe there is huge community goodwill that can be tapped into. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003ECommercial advantages are great; social advantages are priceless. I hope that as this card is promoted, as much effort is put into securing the support of the community sector as is put into gaining buy-in from the retail sector. Australian veterans are a classic example of people who revel in the status that their gold card provides them with. It is a simple mechanism\u2014a simple card\u2014but with the potential to deliver recognition, status, goodwill, and advantage to our 540,000 deserving older New Zealanders. United Future is happy to support this third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u00220434e03cdf5742569f909d3ec462784e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220434e03cdf5742569f909d3ec462784e\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to this third reading of the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill on behalf of ACT New Zealand. I would like to be standing today and saying that ACT proudly supports this bill, because I think it has some very good initiatives in it, particularly with regard to the SuperGold card\u2014although it should be remembered that this bill is not specifically about the SuperGold card but is an amendment to the Social Security Act to cover all entitlement cards that fall under that broad heading\u2014but, sadly, that is not the case. ACT will not be supporting this bill, for the very reason that it does contain a provision for the use of embedded microchips in cards that are covered under this amendment bill. Sadly, the work has not been done to support the safe use of these cards, particularly with regard to privacy issues\u2014and I will come to that issue in a moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWhen the New Zealand First member talked about this bill, she spoke about a good deal of hysteria and said that that was scandalous. In fact, the issues raised last week during the Committee stage of this bill were not hysterical. They were not about hysteria. They were very real concerns that I had about privacy issues, and those concerns were supported by 59 members in the Committee\u2014almost half of the members that we have in Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThere were concerns around the use of microchips. This work has not been done. Overseas countries, such as the United States and the countries comprising the European Union, have all signalled their discomfort with the use of microchips, particularly the use of radio frequency identification tags, when some microchips are able to act in this capacity. Those countries have decided within the last 6 months to stall any decision-making around the use of these microchips for the purpose of the verification of human identification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWhen they are signalling such strong concerns, I think it is pertinent that we take a moment to stand back and look at what the issues might be, to look at the prospect of adding these microchips without the background work having been done either internationally or here in New Zealand, and to look to the very good advice that we have in New Zealand around the use of such technology. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand First member said that it is scandalous, and I would like to ask her just what exactly is scandalous. She talked about hysteria, which to my mind does not exist at all. Very real concerns were raised, and they were raised by a large number of people\u2014not only by me in my amendment, and other Opposition members in this Chamber, but also by the Privacy Commissioner, who is not normally a woman referred to as someone who suffers from hysteria. She normally gives very good, respected advice. For the member to say that she is dealing in the area of hysteria I think is, quite rightly, wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe Law Society gave a very strong submission. Its recommendation to the Social Services Committee was that there should be a general review of the principles governing the use of highly functional technology, such as microchip technology, on Government-issued cards generally, and that the matter should be referred to the office of the Privacy Commissioner. The Privacy Commissioner had made some comments on this bill, but had made no public statements until last week, because she had not been asked to do so. The Privacy Commissioner said that this SuperGold card has some far-reaching implications that need to be explored thoroughly before a final decision is made. She went on to say that a microchipped card may mean many things, especially if it is also used as an identity card for commercial purposes, perhaps with a unique identifying number for each person. She said that security is a real issue, both for the data stored on the cards and for the risk of identity theft. She also talked about the very real issue of the potential for function creep, where the card ends up being used for far more than was originally intended. I think that, far from being hysteria, both of those comments, from the Law Society and the Privacy Commissioner, are very measured responses to a very real issue of privacy that exists in our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E The other support for my amendment came from Grey Power, and I think it would be very odd for New Zealand First to start saying that Grey Power is suffering from hysteria. I can see that the New Zealand First member Barbara Stewart is protesting at this very moment, but when she uses words such as \u201Chysteria\u201D she should use them with a great deal of caution, because I think that these people will take exception to the use of such words. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003ESo what is scandalous? It is not that people raise valid concerns about privacy with the use of microchips on these entitlement cards\u2014and it is not just the SuperGold card. Of course, we now know that that card will not come out with a microchip. The advice we were given by the Ministry of Social Development at the select committee was that if clause 5(2) had been deleted from the bill, then there would have been no implications for the introduction of the SuperGold card. So my question relates to why we are racing this measure through in our legislation when, in fact, it is not needed for the SuperGold card, at all\u2014despite the fact that last week Mr Peters\u2019 office told the New Zealand Herald that the card would not be functional without the microchip. So there is a good deal of confusion within the New Zealand First office itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWhat is scandalous is not that these concerns have been raised but that New Zealand First and Labour have a complete disregard for the privacy concerns of Kiwis\u2014and, in this case, those people are some of New Zealand\u2019s most vulnerable citizens. I regret that I am not able to stand here today and support the bill. We had fully intended to, until the issue of embedded microchips\u2014or the potential for such\u2014came to the fore. Until then, we had certainly intended to support the bill. Identity theft is also something we have not talked a great deal about, but it is a danger, particularly with microchips that can act as radio-frequency identification tags. It could well be that cards with these tags in them could make it to somebody\u2019s letterbox and the information on them read. This is actually the electronic version of steaming open an envelope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI do not for one minute mean to suggest that all microchips have this capability; they do not. But if we read clause 5(2) very carefully, we see that it talks just about embedded microchips. It does not talk about the type of microchip and it does not specify the function that these microchips will have. So by passing this measure into law today, this House is actually allowing a free-for-all in the use of microchips of any type or nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWhen we consider our veterans\u2014veterans who are also entitled to the SuperGold card and who have fought so proudly for our freedoms in this country\u2014it is wrong that today we are putting in place legislation that could see their private details being stolen, in many cases without their knowledge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI come back for a moment to the comments made by the Law Society in its submission. The general review of principles governing the use of highly functional technology\u2014and the matter being referred to and looked at thoroughly by the Privacy Commissioner\u2014is very important. This is exactly what should have happened with this bill at its very outset. Sadly, it did not, and, as we are seeing today, measures are being rushed through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe process that the Law Society outlined would have been absolutely the right process to follow. The Privacy Commissioner made some very important comments last week that are being disregarded here in the Chamber today as people vote in favour of this bill. She should have been involved. She should have been involved very thoroughly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIn putting forward this bill as a Government bill, Mr Peters and the Labour Government have neglected the security of some of our most vulnerable citizens. They have done this by by-passing basic privacy principles. We are seeing the potential for the playing of privacy poker with other people\u2019s chips. ACT will not stand in this Parliament and condone this. For that reason, we will be opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022afa9d9c7c1ae4d13a89bb36ef17d598a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afa9d9c7c1ae4d13a89bb36ef17d598a\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister for Senior Citizens):\u003C/span\u003E As the Rt Hon Winston Peters said in his introductory comments, the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill is the next step in making the SuperGold card a reality. Its purpose is to enable the full effect to be given to our Government\u2019s intentions in regard to the delivery of this card. Specifically, the amendments contained in the bill will allow regulations to be made under the Social Security Act 1964, providing for implementation of a SuperGold card offering an optional cardholder photograph that will be useful for those who do not have a driver\u2019s licence or any other form of photo ID, and containing a bar code that will help streamline the process by which businesses apply SuperGold card discounts to cardholders when they present their card at the point of sale. In order to future-proof the card, the bill will also allow regulations to be made providing for an imbedded microchip in the card if and when this proves useful to cardholders at some stage in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe card as originally\u2014and, in fact, always\u2014intended will be launched without a microchip in August this year. Again as was always intended\u2014and the bill now makes it explicit because of the amendment moved by Taito Phillip Field\u2014any move to use microchip technology in relation to the SuperGold card, or in relation to any other entitlement card, will not occur without consultation with the Privacy Commissioner and the State Services Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe bill will allow a bar code or a microchip to contain only information that can already be stored on a magnetic strip. I know that some people have raised concerns about the information to be stored, but I say that those concerns have been misunderstood and misrepresented for political point-scoring\u2014and senior citizens will know this to be the case, because the legislation makes it very clear what information can be stored on the card. It does not allow anything in addition to what can already be stored on a magnetic strip. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ELet me outline to the House exactly what can be stored. First, is the cardholder\u2019s name. A photograph, if it is included\u2014and it is voluntary, as the Rt Hon Winston Peters outlined\u2014will provide additional security. The strip can include an identifying number assigned by the department to the cardholder\u2014the superannuation number. It can have a number or code indicating the cardholder\u2019s class of eligibility for the card. An identifying number can be assigned to the card. The commencement and expiry dates of the card, and a code number for mailing purposes, can be on the card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIf members had bothered to read section 132A(2) of the Social Security Act, they would have seen that that is the limit in law of the information that can be stored without any further legislative amendment. So in order to merit the concerns raised by the \u201Cbordering on hysteria\u201D member for the ACT party, the law would have to be changed. There is no issue about breach of privacy. The legislation ensures that as future opportunities for discounts and concessions for senior citizens become available, and if they are available only through the use of a microchip, we do not have to spend hours of time in this Parliament using up legislative opportunity to do something the law will already allow us to do. This concern is political point-scoring by both National and ACT to the detriment of over 550,000 New Zealanders, who are interested in seeing the outcome of this legislation, rather than being scared by deliberate misrepresentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI think the progress of this bill through the House will be welcome news to all those senior citizens throughout the country. I know that having heard the entire debate they will understand that their private information is not under threat. It is the sole intention of this measure to ensure that senior citizens are able to access smart technology as it advances, at the earliest possible opportunity so that more concessions and discounts can be added to the SuperGold card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EFinally, this bill will also allow the Ministry of Social Development to obtain and use information from theRegistrar-General of Births, Deaths and Marriages for the purposes of verifying a person\u2019s eligibility, or continuing eligibility, for the card. The Labour-Progressive coalition Government and New Zealand First are proud to have worked together to establish the SuperGold card. As well as providing access to discounts on goods and services from businesses around the country, the SuperGold card and the information services that support it\u2014a website directory and 0800 number\u2014will help ensure that seniors are easily able to access the range of services, entitlements, and concessions available to them from central and local government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe SuperGold card is the last in a long list of policies and initiatives that our Government has enacted to ensure that seniors have more support to help them to live independent and healthy lives. As the SuperGold card is part of Labour\u2019s confidence and supply agreement with New Zealand First, we have committed to adjust New Zealand\u2019s superannuation annually to a minimum of 66 percent of the average ordinary wage for a married couple\u20141 percent higher than required by legislation. We first fulfilled this commitment on 1 April last year. On 1 April this year we adjusted the New Zealand superannuation and veterans pension rates yet again, raising them by 5 percent. More than 508,000 New Zealanders have been benefiting from extra money in their pockets since that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESince 1 July 2004, New Zealanders aged 65 and over have been eligible for lower-cost general practitioner visits and prescription charges through their local primary health organisation. Two-thirds of SuperGold card holders will have an identifier on their card that also indicates their entitlement to income-tested community service card benefits. That means they will have to carry only one card instead of two. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn July of last year we increased income thresholds for the rates rebate scheme to $20,000 per annum\u2014up from $7,500\u2014meaning that more people than ever are eligible for this assistance. Couples whose only income is New Zealand superannuation will now receive some level of rebate if their annual rates bill is more than $1,150. As an example, a couple in that situation who have a rates bill of $1,900 are now eligible for the maximum rebate of $500. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe are also developing a code of practice for home equity conversion schemes in order to ensure that the financial interests of older people are protected. Financial protection of older New Zealanders is also a focus of our work to amend the Protection of Personal and Property Rights Act 1988 to ensure that older New Zealanders and others have greater legal protection when setting up an enduring power of attorney. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOf course, we have recently made a number of changes to the licensing requirements for older drivers, doing away with mandatory age-based road tests. For those older people who no longer drive, other forms of transport can provide the means for their independence. For example, the total mobility scheme provides a subsidised taxi service to people with serious mobility constraints. People who qualify receive taxi discount vouchers, usually of 50 percent off the normal taxi fare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ELast but certainly not least, in 2001 we launched the New Zealand Positive Ageing Strategy. That strategy provides a framework for integrating policies and programmes across the whole of government at central, regional, and local level and ensures that our Government departments and agencies consider older people before making decisions. The new SuperGold card sits alongside and compliments these Labour-led Government initiatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EImportantly, it encourages the private sector to get involved in improving the lot of older New Zealanders. Businesses around the country are able to sign up as a SuperGold card business partner. People may have tuned in to listen to, or they may have watched, Parliament this afternoon. I encourage all businesses that have not already done so to pick up the phone and call the SuperGold business partner freephone 0508 650 000. Not only will they be giving something back to senior citizens, they will be doing themselves a favour. Older people are loyal customers. They value word-of-mouth recommendations, especially from their peers, and they are a growing group. There is also a contact phone number for cardholders\u20140800 254 565. By August a website will also provide a wealth of information on the entitlements available to older New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe SuperGold card honours the contribution older New Zealanders have made, and continue to make, to New Zealand society. It is an acknowledgment of the respect they deserve. It will be a physical reminder of the Government\u2019s commitment to seniors and to veterans and will improve their standard of living through the commercial discounts available through the card and by helping them access the range of services, entitlements, and concessions available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis bill is a fine example of how a modern-day Government works. Cooperation and delivering on promises and arrangements made\u2014in this instance a confidence and supply arrangement with New Zealand First\u2014leads to something of this kind: the SuperGold card for our senior citizens, the first-ever card of its kind in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI commend the perseverance of my colleague my Associate Minister for Senior Citizens, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, for making this bill and the SuperGold card a reality. I conclude by also acknowledging the officials and the select committee for their work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u002297767b06b7774ebf871527139932f5d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297767b06b7774ebf871527139932f5d2\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. I have listened to hours of debate on this bill before Parliament in the last couple of weeks, I have read the Hansard of the debates, and I have pretty much absorbed what everybody has been saying. The discussions have ranged over a huge topic, from Russell Fairbrother talking about homophobes to discussions about passports being microchipped in order to allow Americans to track us, to my fellow National colleagues being called bizarre\u2014often quite absurd\u2014names. And so the debate has gone on. But the intention of the bill is that this amending legislation be used as a vehicle for the SuperGold card to allow concessions and discounts for New Zealand residents who are aged 65 years and older. The intention of the card is to provide commercial discounts to cardholders from participating businesses, and it will help to facilitate seniors\u2019 access to concessions on central government and local authority services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThere really is no debate that senior citizens have contributed significantly to our community and deserve to be treated with respect and, where possible, given concessions in their retirement, in recognition of the great contribution they have made to our society. It is important that we recognise the efforts of Grey Power, which has lobbied hard and efficaciously for this card. Whether the card can deliver commercial discounts and concessions from central government and local authorities, we will have to see. Many are touting this card as a failed attempt at Fly Buys. We have not been told yet whether anybody has signed up to the card, or how committed central government is to giving more discounts to senior citizens than those that they already receive. But I am sure that people will be lining up for the card, and that sooner or later we will hear from those who are committed to helping our senior citizens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThere are only two parts to this bill. Both are quite simple. The first part relates to an optional photo on a card and the ability to microchip the card at some time in the future. The second part relates to the Births, Deaths, and Marriages register database being used to collate the necessary information. When this bill was first introduced only three submissions were received, so it is not a very contentious bill. The submission from the Law Society was the biggest submission received. It made a submission on the entitlement card in which it stated that the prospect of microchips being embedded on cards issued by the Government did raise a more general concern, due to the functionality that microchips can possess, including the ability to operate as radio frequency ID tags. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe society went on to say that as far it was aware, this bill would represent the first occasion when legislation has authorised the use of microchips on cards. At least it is the first time that such use has been authorised on such a large scale. This provision impacts on 540,000 senior citizens. We are talking about a massive scale of use, and one whereby the cards will be reissued with a microchip whenever the Government decides to do so. The Law Society recommended that the Social Services Committee call for a general review of the principles governing the use of highly functional technology on Government-issued cards generally, and that the matter be referred to the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EStrong views were voiced at the select committee that a more general inquiry, particularly around the use of microchips, is necessary before legislation allowing microchips is enacted. There was debate at the select committee, raised by the National Party initially, concerning microchips. So National was concerned from day one about these microchips and what could be recorded on them. The officials came in many times to tell us exactly how the microchips would work, even though at the time they could not give us a figure as to how much the cards would cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe debate in the House on this bill has related mainly to microchipping. Microchipping is something that I do not believe this country or this Parliament has had an opportunity to speak on. I believe that the people of this country need to have a discussion about it, so that they can make a decision themselves about whether microchipping on the scale of this measure is a path that New Zealand really wants to go down, or even whether we are ready to go down that path now. I believe it is wrong that we are passing this legislation without hearing the opinions of New Zealanders on that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003ELast week one of my colleagues spoke about the bill being a Trojan Horse, saying the legislation is not about the gold card at all but about developing legislation that allows all cards to be microchipped in the future by only a change in regulation. National is very concerned about the information that may be stored on the microchip, and we believe that the provision regarding microchipping should be deleted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWe believe that senior citizens deserve something\u2014and something good\u2014but that the way to really help them is by truly raising their standard of living and the only way we will do that is by raising the average income in New Zealand. National is committed to raising the average income, which will then have a flow-on effect on to the superannuation that our senior citizens receive. We believe that this card is a good thing, in general, and say we are committed totally to the senior citizens of New Zealand. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u002265b56c1ee90343a3a0a7a84ad4524de6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265b56c1ee90343a3a0a7a84ad4524de6\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Labour\u2014Otaki):\u003C/span\u003E I am really pleased to take a call on the third reading of the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill, which we are debating here today in Parliament. I think it is very important legislation for older New Zealanders, and it is not only a good sign from a policy point of view of what we are doing for people over the age of 65 but it is also another reminder of how Government works under MMP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI would like to start off by congratulating the Minister in charge of the bill, the Rt Hon Winston Peters. The card is not a new idea from Winston Peters\u2014he has been in favour of it for a very long time. It was one of the things that New Zealand First brought to the table as Labour worked with New Zealand First after the last election to put together the governing arrangements for New Zealand. We have now been able to put the idea into legislation and make it happen. It is a good reminder of the way our governing system works under MMP. A Government is formed and other parties that support that Government bring their ideas to the table, and we are able to turn those ideas into legislation. So I welcome this legislation not only for the policy and what it does but for what it represents as well\u2014yet another contribution to the great MMP system that our country voted to have at the referendum in 1993. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003ESpeaking as the member of Parliament for Otaki, I remind members that that electorate has a higher number of people over the age of 65 than any other electorate in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220959572252104ab8a6b0cdf4365c21b2\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: They deserve a decent member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225961e3eacb4f46fdb3a506e50dbd9725\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Carter that they have a decent member. I can assure him that they look at the candidates and make the right decision, and that is what they did at the last election. It was a privilege and an honour to be elected, and I hope they do it again. But I will not be taking any electorate advice from David Carter. I will not be going to David Carter and asking him for any advice on elections at all. Seeing that he lost three times on the trot I do not think I will be asking him for any advice\u2014but I hope he dishes it out to his colleagues, so effective has he been. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI return to the point I was making about my constituents in the Otaki electorate. There are a lot of people over 65 who look to see what the Government is doing to make life a little easier. I think this Government\u2019s record since 1999 shows that at every step we have tried to make a whole lot of improvements for people. This bill is just the latest in a whole series of attempts by the Government to assist those who have served our country in many spheres and who are now in retirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe third reading of this bill will set up what we will call the SuperGold card. Opposition members have got themselves into a twist about the fact that the bill does not actually mention that name. We had a long dissertation from Sandra Goudie about that. What Sandra Goudie needs to understand\u2014if possible\u2014is that we are setting up a legislative framework here from which the card will be derived and will have its own name. We are trying to bring together, in an easy and simple way for older people, all the services that are available to them from the Government. There are a lot of those services\u2014and Mr Carter will be experiencing them shortly\u2014and there are also services and benefits that the business sector and the community and voluntary sector want to offer people over the age of 65. I am convinced that if we can have those all in one place\u2014all with the SuperGold card\u2014that will be a great advance for older people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EOne of the things the card will be able to achieve for us is a much more coordinated approach\u2014not necessarily from the Government, because I think the Government is very focused on having policies and frameworks for older people. We have an excellent Minister for Senior Citizens in the Hon Ruth Dyson. For a long time we have been trying to coordinate things better, with such things as our Positive Ageing Strategy, and all the different work we have been doing. But for the private sector there has probably not been a mechanism for businesses to be able to put forward the services and discounts they might want to offer in order to get more market share. That has not been easy for them to do. So the Government is introducing this provision, which is a very business-friendly approach in terms of getting access to the market of senior citizens who, of course, are a growing number in New Zealand. There are already 540,000 people over the age of 65, and, clearly, that figure will continue to grow. So we will need to come up with continually fresh policies like this to make sure we are delivering for that group of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI was interested to listen to the Hon Ruth Dyson earlier. She reminded me that on 1 April this year\u2014and this is another example of Labour\u2019s working agreement with New Zealand First\u2014the rate of New Zealand superannuation went up quite significantly. I have very good feedback in my electorate about this. The fortnightly payment has gone up by $26 for married couples and $13 for single pensioners. That is actually significant money. I sat down and worked out that for some married couples, when that increase every fortnight is added up over the course of a year, the Government, through that increase alone, is basically paying the power bill in their home. The Government has put in place something whereby pensioners can save that money specifically as a contribution towards the power bill. [Interruption] Clayton Cosgrove has just interjected to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad5fc35a8263437d9690e8f444f43175\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: He shouldn\u2019t have done that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abc3a5649b604b9e974de655c8d0e35e\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Doug Woolerton said he should not have done that, but it was quite helpful. While I was talking about the pension going up Mr Cosgrove said: \u201CHang on. Haven\u2019t there been times in New Zealand when the pension has gone down?\u201D, and in fact the Minister is quite right. Do members know what the National Government did in 1990? National came into office and said it was going to get rid of the surtax. Did it do that? The surtax did not go down. It did not get wiped; it went up. National campaigned on getting rid of the surtax and then put it up. Later on, when it wanted to give tax cuts, guess how the tax cuts were funded? Did National put the pension up to fund the tax cuts? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210ef368c0c3441e2954fc4a5e836e9ce\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aef827a41f24ed39eb48bd308279c36\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no. National put the pension down to fund the tax cuts. In order to make sure it could give tax cuts to people when it had the choice, it cut the pension. Nobody would want to put that on a SuperGold card, and the Labour-led Government, with the support of many parties, would not do that. But the National Party in Government, when it was faced with a choice about cutting taxes, went ahead and did that and paid for it by cutting the pension. It also paid for it by putting up university fees for young people trying to get ahead in life. That is what the National Party did for older people. It did not inflation-adjust the pension\u2014something that Labour does every single year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe SuperGold card might also be able to build on some of the improvements we have been able to make in health-care services for older people. Every pensioner now has every pharmacy item subsidised and pays no more than $3 per item. It used to be $15 per item, so for pensioners that is a huge improvement. The cost of going to the doctor has fallen as a result of the primary health organisation money that has gone into that provision. It was voted against by National. National members now say they support it. Who would know? Do members remember what National members told us in 1990 and 1999? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI am also thinking of the rates rebate scheme, which is proving to be very popular. It was opposed by National members, though goodness knows what their view is now. They want to tell everybody anything they want to hear. So I suppose that because the rates rebate is popular they are now in favour of it even though they voted against it. It is just as well there is no electoral integrity legislation in front of Parliament any more, because people who get elected on one platform by saying they are against things and then get into Parliament and say they are for those things disenfranchise the people who voted for them. That behaviour from National members was a good example of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe rates rebate scheme, which we have to try to administer more efficiently for older people, has to go into that category as well. I think also that the KiwiSaver scheme, which will be a saving scheme lasting over a person\u2019s whole working life, might be something that can be tied in with the SuperGold card. [Interruption] I hear my friend from New Zealand First say it is a great scheme. I think it is a great scheme. We have to address the problem of people not saving enough in New Zealand. For every dollar a household earns, it is spending $1.18. We have to come up with some smart policies to try to turn that round for New Zealand. That is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI remember the last election campaign when I campaigned on the KiwiSaver scheme. I said that for every person who joined the scheme the Government would kick in a thousand bucks to help that person get started on his or her savings. I remember members of the National Party at that election campaign saying they were against KiwiSaver. I remember debating on it with John Key in the House. He said it was so silly because it meant that one\u2019s pool boy could get a KiwiSaver scheme. I thought that not many New Zealanders I know have a pool boy, but that remark tells members about the Parnell side of things. But the link with the KiwSaver and the SuperGold card is quite important in terms of the savings people are able to make over their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThis bill delivers actual benefits to older people. It is a very good thing. The reason a card is needed is as a means to keep all the data so that one can be sure of what is being said. With the flip-flops coming out of the National Party on every single policy, I think every citizen should have one of these cards to keep track of where National is on all these sorts of things\u2014so ridiculous are they in what they are doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E What the Government is saying is that it will guarantee that people will retire at 65, and it will guarantee that people will get at least 65 percent of the average wage going forward\u2014and I acknowledge the fact that it is 66 percent at the moment with the confidence and supply agreement. It is important that these things are guaranteed for older people. Unfortunately, members such as David Carter vote to cut the pension. I am afraid it is pretty hard to take him seriously when it comes to dealing with older people. I know about that bunch over there; any time they have the chance they will vote to sock it to older people. I am not saying that because I am being unkind or ungenerous about them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c3dc9a9f43548d48ff1ea40e3f3bae9\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s their record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085f4152e7834569a51818472f3d2492\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but because that is their record. I am sorry that so many new National MPs know so little about National Party history, but the reality is that whenever they are confronted with that choice that is what they do. By voting for the third reading and putting into legislation the SuperGold card, we are protecting that entitlement for older people and making sure that no Tory can ever do the old people in again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e6b74f4a7e1d40ad8598978f17b61197\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 119\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 2; \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ebd07fd5ed9949ed995f84be67ff9992\u0022\u003E State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225aee64bc93ea47baa7890bd7d74ffe53\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00225842c93132554c01848f71389f642139\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225842c93132554c01848f71389f642139\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building and Construction)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for State Owned Enterprises: I move, That the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill be now read a second time. In speaking to the second reading of this bill, I first wish to thank the Commerce Committee for reporting this bill to the House in a short period of time, although giving full consideration to the public submissions it received. I am pleased to see a majority report back recommending the bill be passed, subject to the incorporation of two additional clauses proposed at the select committee. I will come back to those clauses after briefly reviewing the two key objectives of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESubpart 1 of Part 2 concerns directions to AgriQuality. This part permits shareholding Ministers to direct the board of AgriQuality not to provide certain services under the Animal Products Act 1999 without risking a breach of Part 2 of the Commerce Act 1986. AgriQuality indicated, in late 2006, that it wished to enter the export red meat inspection market. Currently, Asure is the sole player in that market. As the owner of both companies, the Government wishes to prevent AgriQuality\u2019s entry to the export red meat inspection market, because that would erode shareholder value\u2014in particular, due to the potentially large redundancy costs involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI wish to clarify one point in the Commerce Committee report, which states: \u201CIf the Government issued a direction under the State-Owned Enterprises Act 1986 to prevent AgriQuality from providing export red meat inspection services without merging the two entities, the Crown might run the risk of breaching Part 2 of the Commerce Act 1986 \u2026\u201D. Inclusion of the words \u201Cwithout merging the two entities\u201D is not strictly correct, as such a direction risks breaching the Commerce Act irrespective of whether the companies merge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESubpart 2 of Part 2 concerns the merger. This part of the bill enables a merger of AgriQuality and Asure to occur, provided the shareholding Ministers are satisfied that a merger is viable. To enable a possible future merger, legislation is required to remove one or both companies from schedules 1 and 2 of the State-Owned Enterprises Act 1986 and consequentially amend a number of other enactments. The bill enables that to occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EPublic submissions raised concerns that by reducing the prospect of competition in the export red meat inspection market, the bill could result in higher prices and lower service levels than would otherwise be the case. The Government has worked closely with United Future to develop a Supplementary Order Paper that incorporates two new clauses to address those concerns. These clauses provide that, firstly, export red meat inspection prices will be subject to Commerce Commission scrutiny within 3 years of the enactment of the bill; and, secondly, should overseas regulatory authorities in countries responsible for importing a significant majority of our red meat exports change their policy to recognise the private provision of export red meat inspection services, the Crown will review its policy in relation to those services. These amendments, combined with the ongoing constraints imposed by the Commerce Act and Asure\u2019s relatively transparent pricing model for export red meat inspection services, go a long way towards addressing the key concerns raised during the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAnother concern raised during public submissions relating specifically to the prospect of a merger is that if a merger of AgriQuality and Asure takes place, it will reduce the amount of competition in the provision of TB testing services until such time as the current contracts expire in 2009, potentially resulting in reduced service levels and higher prices after the expiry of the current contracts. Those concerns are mitigated by the fact that any merged company would be obliged to honour its existing contracts, which, I understand, specify price and quality parameters, and by the fact there are other actual and potential providers of TB testing services that are likely to show great interest in the next tender round, due in 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAlthough the benefits of the merger are still being assessed, preliminary indications suggest that the bill will, firstly, protect and enhance shareholder value through economies of scale and scope, and through reduced risk of costly redundancy; and, secondly, enable a more effective and efficient biosecurity response capability. In short, the bill, by enabling a merger of the two companies should this be viable, will have significant benefits for shareholders and the New Zealand economy as a whole. This bill is critical to maintain and enhance shareholder value in AgriQuality and Asure\u2014companies owned by the Crown on behalf of all New Zealanders. It also enables a more effective national biosecurity response capability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe main principles of the bill are designed to, firstly, enable shareholding Ministers to direct AgriQuality not to provide export red meat inspection services in competition with Asure; and, secondly, to enable a merger of AgriQuality Ltd and Asure New Zealand Ltd, provided shareholding Ministers are satisfied that that is viable. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a189e4b61f9f48349b349c64c4e95015\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a189e4b61f9f48349b349c64c4e95015\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E National will oppose the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill for the following reasons. This has to be one of the strangest pieces of legislation that Mr Mallard has ever advanced before Parliament. I guess that is not surprising, when one considers his track record on any matter concerning finance. This legislation promotes the merger of two State-owned enterprises, Asure New Zealand Ltd and AgriQuality Ltd, but it does so on very, very spurious grounds. What Mr Mallard is suggesting to Parliament today, through his junior Minister, Clayton Cosgrove, is that this legislation will allow the merger of these two enterprises but that before they decide to merge these enterprises, Mr Mallard will rush away and do a financial analysis to see whether there really is any benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI suggest that that is a real case of putting the cart before the horse. Surely any Minister in touch with his or her portfolio would do the economic analysis first, then, if there were merit in merging the two enterprises, come forward with the enabling legislation. But that is not the way the Government has worked. For those who sat through the select committee process, what has become painfully obvious to all of us is that it has nothing to do with economic benefit to the New Zealand taxpayer by enhancing shareholder value in these two enterprises. It is totally about delivering to the wishes of the Public Service Association (PSA), which is New Zealand\u2019s largest trade union. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E At this stage I want to thank Gordon Copeland for the constructive role he played in the Commerce Committee hearings. I am not normally a member of that particular select committee, but I sat through the very hastily arranged submission process, and Gordon Copeland asked some very good questions. In fact, I initially gathered from his questioning that he would be on the side of the angels, would see that there was no merit in this legislation at all, and would support the National Party in voting against it. However, I do understand the closeness between United Future and the current Labour Government, and Mr Copeland has apparently come up with a number of amendments that certainly soften the thrust of this legislation. I was hopeful of seeing those amendments today, but Mr Copeland has just informed me that he has not seen the amendments either, so obviously they have been written by the Government, not by Mr Copeland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESuffice to say, though, what was really interesting was that the Meat Industry Association received absolutely no consultation at all from the Government on this legislation. The association was told that that would happen by none other than a visitor from the trade union, the PSA, back in the middle of last year. I will quote something that Mr Bill Falconer, Chairman of the Meat Industry Association, and a well-regarded international figure within our meat industry, said to the select committee: \u201CI have to say that in the 47 years I have been in and around Government, I have never seen a major trade organisation\u201D\u2014the Meat Industry Association\u2014\u201Cbe treated so shabbily,\u201D. I say to all on that side of the House that it is a shame that that is the way they treat this major export market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo why does the argument occur that these two State-owned enterprises should be merged? Opposition to the move goes right back to the PSA representing all of the meat inspectors. I say that if this legislation finally proceeds to allow the merger, we will see our meat industry again being held to ransom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI will refer specifically to clause 10, and signal today in the House that I will be moving an amendment in the Committee stage to delete clause 10 in its entirety. I take the opportunity to explain this to the House today. The Animal Health Board is charged by the New Zealand Government with ensuring that we succeed in obtaining TB-free status by the year 2013. I think the board is doing a very credible job in that area. That therefore requires that it is involved with setting up a TB testing regime for all cattle in New Zealand. Quite recently, the Animal Health Board has been able to competitively tender its TB rounds between both Asure and AgriQuality, thereby achieving significant savings of costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EBecause the board was concerned that the PSA would finally win the day within the Labour Government, when it signed contracts with AgriQuality and Asure it specifically said that it would reserve the right, in the event of a merger taking place, to immediately cancel those contracts and seek more competitive tendering. Clause 10 cancels the Animal Health Board\u2019s ability to do that. Clause 10 states that any contract  must then be maintained, because Mr Mallard and the Labour Government have overridden the sanctity of the contract that the Animal Health Board quite independently negotiated some time ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThat means we have removed the ability for competitive tendering for TB testing. It means we are now back to having a significant monopoly, in the short term, in administering TB testing. That then means that the costs will go up, and those costs will be borne by the New Zealand farmer. So I will be moving an amendment in the Committee stage. I understand that Gordon Copeland is aware of this issue. I certainly hope he will support my amendment, and I certainly hope that other smaller parties\u2014cognisant of the value of New Zealand agriculture to the economy, cognisant of the value of achieving TB-free status by 2013, and cognisant of the fact that at the end of the day beef and dairy farmers in New Zealand are paying for this service\u2014will also take the opportunity of making sure that we at least, within this legislation, ensure the ability of the Animal Health Board to contract as it likes to the providers of these TB testing services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EAs we went through the submissions, we found that they were fulsome, and there were very, very few submissions in favour of the legislation\u2014one of which was quite a substantial one from the PSA, but given the fact that it had announced this move to the Meat Industry Association last year, I suppose that it is not surprising that the industry submissions were totally opposed to the bill. The Meat Industry Association was very disappointed, upon hearing rumours of this legislative change being proposed by the Labour Government and taking the opportunity of writing to the Minister of Agriculture and asking whether it could have a meeting to discuss the issue, that Jim Anderton refused even to meet with the industry. This is something we are seeing happen quite often with Mr Anderton in his other portfolios. He was not prepared to meet with the industry association and try to explain the rationale for rushing the legislation through the House with indecent haste. So I say to Mr Anderton that if he is genuine about working with the industry, then he has to be prepared to front up to it and justify a move such as this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo overall, National has wholehearted opposition to this bill before Parliament today. National will oppose the legislation. We will certainly support the good work of Gordon Copeland through his amendments, but we stand to vote against the legislation at the end of the day. I will take the opportunity of seeking again the support of particularly Doug Woolerton\u2019s party in making sure that we at least get rid of clause 10, which defies the ability of the Animal Health Board to stick to the sanctity of the contract based on good faith with both these providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce96a5e8f99f42f9bf6fdb28c911b4b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce96a5e8f99f42f9bf6fdb28c911b4b1\u0022\u003EMARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill, particularly in the wake of the previous contribution, which was more a form objection than anything else. It was really difficult to discern what the key objections of the National Party are to this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ETo give a bit of background, I say that the two State-owned enterprises were created in November 1998 out of the corporatisation of MAF Quality Management\u2019s business units. For the benefit of people listening outside of this Chamber, I say that AgriQuality\u2019s core business is the provision of food safety and biosecurity services, while Asure\u2019s is the provision of export red meat inspection services. The two State-owned enterprises also overlap in their work\u2014for example, in TB-testing services, which the Minister Clayton Cosgrove referred to in his second reading speech, and in biosecurity response services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAgriQuality advised the shareholding Ministers in November 2006 that it intended to provide export red meat inspection services in competition with Asure. Shareholding Ministers wish to prevent competition in the export meat inspection market, as they consider that competition between the two State-owned enterprises in that area is undesirable and would result in a net cost to the Crown\u2014and I will develop that point a wee bit further in a moment. Therefore, legislation was required: firstly, to mitigate the possible Commerce Act implications of the AgriQuality board\u2019s decision to withdraw its intention to enter the export meat inspection market\u2014and that is the argument around section 2 of the Commerce Act\u2014and, secondly, to enable the possible merger of the two companies at some time further down the track. This legislation does not create that merger, but it creates the possibility of the merger should Ministers decide that this makes sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe shareholding Ministers had written to AgriQuality and Asure informing them of decisions taken and inviting them to collaborate to develop a business case for a proposal to merge the two organisations, and they agreed to do that. Let me just explore some of the rationale behind this, because it is important. The Labour-led Government prefers to see State-owned enterprises collaborating and coordinating their activities to provide a quality service rather than competing at a cost to the taxpayer. There was no particular purpose in having two State-owned enterprises competing with each other to provide the same service, and we have not heard any argument from the Opposition to gainsay that. There was no overt or even covert purpose in having these two State-owned enterprises compete with each other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe issue about the reduction of cost is one I will come back to in a moment, because one of the key premises of the National Party\u2019s opposition was that the prevention of any competition would keep costs high and not allow costs to reduce as one would normally expect to be the case in the event of a competitive market. In considering that point, I put it to the House that competition frequently does two things. Frequently it does indeed lower the cost of services or goods, and a competitive market can ensure a better price for services. But in this instance it was not only meaningless to have two State-owned enterprises compete with each other to deliver price reductions but, I would suggest, also dangerous. It is also dangerous in this instance because competition in the pursuit of lower prices frequently means lower standards and corners being cut. This is an area that is far too important for the export industries of New Zealand, far too important for consumer protection, and far too important for New Zealand\u2019s reputation overseas to allow meaningless competition for the sake of competition only. That is the critical point, and that is the key difference between our position on this side of the House and that of the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s reputation around the delivery of food standards and the safety of our produce overseas is intimately bound up with this legislation. If we have one State-owned enterprise and the possibility of a merger to make it even more sensible as to how we deliver the standards required to maintain the treaties, agreements, and contracts we have, particularly with the United Kingdom and the United States, then I am very much in favour of ensuring that this remains within the domain of one State-owned enterprise and that competition does not reduce the quality of product we deliver to the international market. It is important to note that the contracts we have, particularly with the United Kingdom and the United States, recognise Government-guaranteed standards. It is the New Zealand Food Safety Authority that verifies the inspection services on our red meat exports. The New Zealand Food Safety Authority is the one that guarantees to our international contract partners the standard and the quality of the produce we sell to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EClearly, we do not object in any way to the two amendments Mr Copeland is introducing. The first amendment simply asks that there be a review within 3 years of the passage of this bill. It is always good to make sure that legislation is doing what it was meant to do. The second allows the possibility of competitive tendering should overseas regulatory authorities change their policies to recognise the private provision of export red meat. Should that happen, then, indeed, let us see whether competitive tendering will cut the mustard. At the moment it is not a relevant consideration, because the overseas regulatory authorities require a Government guarantee of quality for the product being sold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI have one further comment to make. I want to respond to some of the points made about the New Zealand Public Service Association (PSA) by the speaker who resumed his seat a moment ago. The PSA does have an agreement with this Labour-led Government\u2014it is true. It is called Partnership for Quality. The PSA is an independent union. It is the biggest union in the country, as the member who spoke a moment ago said, but it is absolutely committed to quality services within the public sector in New Zealand. Its support of this legislation is based not on any sycophantic kowtowing to a Labour-led Government but on a long-held commitment to the delivery of quality services in the public sector. That is the nature of this Labour-led Government\u2019s agreement with the PSA in the signed Partnership for Quality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis bill allows for the consideration of a merger at some time in the future. That may be a good thing. I for one, if I were to express a personal opinion, would be very happy to see such a merger occur, because I consider the extent of corporatisation that resulted in these two organisations in the first place to have been something of an atomising process. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002276112651a97a44b381134992640982e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276112651a97a44b381134992640982e0\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on this very important State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill. We have just heard from one of the former trade unionists, who had a real slant on why this bill is good for the unions. What that member failed to mention is what is good for primary production. What is good for the farmer\u2014for the people at the coalface who are actually growing lamb and beef? This merger will surely hike up the costs that will roll on through to those people who are producing a very valuable product for our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that these two State-owned enterprises have been split for 10 years now and we have not had a problem at all with any of our quality meat standards around the world. I was fortunate enough in 2000 to go on a Winston Churchill Fellowship to America. I have been through their plants, and our standards in our meat plants here in New Zealand are fantastic compared with America. Our products meet the United States Department of Agriculture standards to a brilliant condition. Our meat processing plants and meat quality standards are at a very, very high level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo I struggle to see how merging these two identities will be beneficial when we have not had a problem for 10 years. If we were to amalgamate Meridian Energy and Genesis Energy, would we do that in a month? The answer would be no. Here we have a bill that the Government was trying to ram through in about a month, although that has been extended out to 6 weeks. I think that is absolutely shocking. As we have heard from the Hon David Carter, the submitters are really concerned about the panic with this bill. Would we merge Genesis Energy and Meridian Energy without a full economic analysis or a business case? This bill says to me that we will not amalgamate now but that we want to have the provisions to amalgamate. We have not even seen the business case yet. No one has done the numbers to see how they stack up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo what is the real panic about the bill? I believe\u2014and it has become apparent through the submission process\u2014that when AgriQuality signalled its intention to move into red meat inspection at the end of last year, Mr Mallard came down with a heavy hand and said: \u201CYou dare. You dare do that.\u201D He warned AgriQuality and, as a consequence, he may well have breached a Commerce Commission law. Now we have a mad panic to try to get this bill through, because Mr Mallard has come down with a heavy hand on AgriQuality right in the area where he should not be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt interesting that in 2006 Mr Mallard wrote to all the State-owned enterprise chairs saying: \u201CI think you should diversify and get into a few other areas\u2014so long as it is within your area of business.\u201D On one hand Mr Mallard is saying that they should diversify. Would we want to see Landcorp actually setting up a milk plant with taxpayers\u2019 money and competing against Fonterra? The answer would surely be no. Mr Mallard is out there saying: \u201CHave a go, have a go. Diversify.\u201D Then on the other hand he wants to see State-owned enterprises merged into one identity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe real concern we have with this bill is that it has been rushed through. It will affect farmers\u2019 bottom lines. I do not think that has been talked about today. We have heard from the trade unionist from the Labour Party movement that it will be wonderful for its people. But it will not be wonderful for the people who are producing the product and who will have to pay higher fees for meat inspections and higher amounts for TB testing. That will roll on and mean that the people buying meat in the supermarket will have to pay higher prices for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EOne of the things I also want to raise is the weather bombs we have had recently in Northland. When we think about and analyse a State-owned enterprise and a Crown research institute that should be working closer together, the example that springs to mind is the Meteorological Service and the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research. The National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research has a multimillion-dollar supercomputer model that can predict weather bombs\u2014particularly flooding events\u201412 to 36 hours ahead of the Meteorological Service. But, hello, the Meteorological Service has the contract for weather forecasting, so the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd is hamstrung from putting out this information to the people who really value it in our provincial rural communities. We have there a State-owned enterprise and a Crown research institute. We have Mr Maharey on one and Mr Mallard on the other. There is tremendous infighting there. We do not have that coming into Parliament to be sorted out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIn Asure and AgriQuality, we have two State-owned enterprises that are performing extremely well, and the National Party has a real concern that this legislation is being rammed through at a great rate of knots with very poor consultation. The Minister of Agriculture, Mr Jim Anderton, should be appalled that he would not meet some of the key industry people to even hear their position. National has real concerns with this bill and that is why we are opposing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f36288acf6e6476b9b124b50ef703f0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f36288acf6e6476b9b124b50ef703f0e\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First supports the proposal to amalgamate AgriQuality and Asure either now or in the future. As the speakers do their stuff, we are starting to hear a few of the underlying problems coming out. I want to reiterate some of the things that Maryan Street said. One of them is that these demands are those of other countries. These demands are those of other Governments that will not deal with private enterprise. They will not deal with private contractors. They will deal with Government agencies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e8f9fe0f40843859ec489be8f2171b5\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: These are two State-owned enterprises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c246dbec0cb044fa939ab1b4343ba302\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they are State-owned enterprises. We have spent a lot of time making sure that these countries overseas understand that these State-owned enterprises are actually Government organisations. That is what they are, no matter what point one makes about them. They are controlled by the Government to one degree or another, and their shareholders are Government Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EMr Gordon Copeland\u2019s amendment, which New Zealand First intends to support, is along the lines of: \u201CIf these countries overseas agree to private contractors or other agencies taking up meat inspection, then they will be allowed.\u201D Now, there is negotiation on a continuing basis to try to convince overseas countries that we should be allowed to have private contractors or non-Government agencies carrying out these tasks. But they have not been approved as yet. The Chinese, the Americans, and the English demand that these things be done by a Government agency\u2014be it a State-owned enterprise or other. That is the fact of the matter. Even Mr Gordon Copeland\u2019s excellent amendment accepts and recognises that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EThe other thing that people should know is that there is not real competition between these agencies, especially in the red meat business, as the Meat Industry Association would have everybody believe. There is the potential for competition. When the Meat Industry Association talks about its submission it says it is concerned that the potential for competition is being removed. It is not competition that is being removed; it is the potential for competition that is being removed. I say as an ex-farmer and a person who advocates for farmers that that is not good enough. The potential for competition is not good enough\u2014either there is competition or there is not. That is the honest way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EIf there is not real competition, if there is only the potential for competition, then it is in the Government\u2019s and the farmers\u2019 interest to do everything they can to drive down the cost on the enterprise that is supplying that service. That is precisely and exactly what this bill is about. Instead of having two organisations with some sort of phoney competition, let us have one organisation. There will not be competition, because the overseas Governments will not allow that to happen. Let us get the price down and let us get on with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI get a little bit cheesed off, quite frankly, when people talk to farmers about phoney competition, because farmers know what competition is. Farmers understand what competition is. This is certainly not competition as we all should understand it. I think that, rather than what the National Party is saying, this will be good for the farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb544e60ffb04c54a34acfab94be0e2e\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: You go out and tell them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c4b0ea00989462685f2c7484f7cf40c\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I will tell them. When the National Party fronts up to farmers and starts telling them the whole issue instead of part of the issue, then we may get somewhere. I thought it was interesting that Nathan Guy, just because it occurred to him, thought that the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd should combine with another State-owned enterprise and that somehow or other that would give him better information regarding weather bombs. It is not the information regarding weather bombs that is lacking; it is the ability to do something about them. Again, the National Party is holding out hope when there is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226658626b93b4497da68e1cd70fd12413\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Before the House broke I was talking about the perceived competition that the Meat Industry Association is worried it will be missing out on, and the perceived competition that the National Party is making such an issue of. Mr David Carter mentioned that he will be moving an amendment to clause 10. The Minister has evidently said that where the contract with the Animal Health Board for tuberculosis testing is able to be cancelled at the moment, clause 10 makes sure that the Animal Health Board cannot cancel that contract, even under a differently constituted State-owned enterprise, which we are talking about here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI presume that everybody knows\u2014but in case they do not I will tell them\u2014that here we are dealing with another Government agency, the Animal Health Board. So National is worried about competition between Asure and AgriQuality, which are two State-owned enterprises dealing with a third State-owned enterprise, and the Meat Industry Association is worried about the lack of competition. Well, I tell members that there is very little competition in this area and, as I said before, where there is no real competition one has to make these enterprises as efficient as they can be in order to deliver a low-cost service\u2014which is what is being attempted. Obviously, it will be up to the managers to ensure that that happens, and it will be up to us in Parliament to keep an eye on that. I am sure that between us and the farmers, that will certainly happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI will use the last minute or two I have remaining to talk about the people who are involved in this industry, the people Mr Carter attempted to\u2014not demonise, but he did start to go down that track, and to talk about them in terms of their being unionists. Let me tell members that these people are in a highly specialised field. They have to learn to identify shadows in a carcass. They have to learn to identify things that are not immediately obvious to us. In fact, Mr Assistant Speaker, people like you\u2014and I say \u201Cyou\u201D advisedly\u2014and I could not detect those things. However, these people can, and, most certainly, if they did not the inspectors in our overseas markets absolutely certainly would. They would reject our cattle and they would reject our meat, and there would be horrendous cost to us, as a country, downstream of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003ESo I want to give these people\u2014unionists or not\u2014a little bit of praise for what they do. They work in bloody\u2014and I am not using that as a swear word\u2014conditions. They work often in cold conditions, and they work in conditions where they simply cannot afford to make a mistake. So I give credit to them, and I do that on behalf of the many farmers I know personally who appreciate what they do. I give that credit to them on behalf of myself and my party, New Zealand First. These people are at the cutting edge of what we do in this country\u2014that is, produce extremely high-quality produce and extremely high-quality consumables for the world markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EWe are right at the top end of world markets. We are not producing cheap cuts. Maybe once we did, and maybe we were proud of that once, but we do not do that any more. We produce high-end consumables for the most sophisticated markets in the world, and I close by saying to those people\u2014the meat inspectors and the people who are at the coalface of this industry\u2014that we understand what they do and we appreciate what they do. New Zealand is the beneficiary of what they do, and long may they continue to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u0022fce02bd6a4b44a01b0af9036ea13b226\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fce02bd6a4b44a01b0af9036ea13b226\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E On the first reading of this bill\u2014the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill, which United Future supports\u2014I proceeded on the assumption that Asure New Zealand Ltd was undertaking red meat inspection services, on behalf of New Zealand meat exporters, in a manner akin to what the Customs Service undertakes for imports. I was probably misled by the name \u201CAsure\u201D into thinking it provided assurance to exporters that our vitally important meat exports meet all relevant health, safety, and quality standards as set by the regulators within those markets\u2014the main markets being the European Union, China, and the USA. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EHowever, that has proved not to be the case. The New Zealand regulator is actually the New Zealand Food Safety Authority. That agency sets the quality standards and other standards for our red meat exports. The inspection services themselves are carried out by Asure, and are audited by the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry. Importantly, the costs involved in providing the services of the New Zealand Food Safety Authority and the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry are met by the taxpayers of New Zealand, but\u2014and this is an important point\u2014the cost of the actual meat inspections are met by the meat growers themselves. It is Government policy\u2014and this was actually reaffirmed by the Minister in charge of the New Zealand Food Safety Authority, the Hon Annette King, a couple of years ago\u2014that such red meat inspection services can be undertaken only by the Crown. So when those realities became clear to me, it likewise became clear that the effect of this bill will be the deliberate formation of a State-owned monopoly for red meat inspection services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe bill enables that by overriding the Commerce Act by forbidding AgriQuality Ltd, also a State-owned enterprise, to compete with its fellow State-owned enterprise, Asure, in the provision of meat inspection services. That in itself is contrary to the provisions of the Commerce Act. So in forming this monopoly it is necessary to override the provisions of the Commerce Act. That is unacceptable to United Future. We believe in free and competitive markets, which is why we voted, for example, to bring an end to Telecom\u2019s monopoly over the local loop for telecommunications services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EIt is obvious, I think, to anyone who has studied competition law that a monopoly always carries with it the risk that price gouging will follow, and also that quality will drop. In the absence of a competitor, why should a company not try to get from the market the maximum possible price, and why should it care too much about quality? In this particular case, quality will not be an issue. I have no doubt about that, because as I have mentioned we have the New Zealand Food Standards Authority and the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry auditing the quality of red meat inspections. Nevertheless, the creation of a monopoly, in terms of the price that can be charged, along with the possibility of price gouging, put New Zealand farmers\u2014the producers of our multibillion-dollar meat exports\u2014in an untenable position. They cannot sell meat until it has been inspected, so a monopoly in those services means that they are forced to pay whatever Asure chooses to charge. Asure, in the absence of competition, has no incentive to minimise costs and no incentive to be efficient. That, in our view, is completely unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EAccordingly, United Future has made its support for the bill subject to two conditions. The first of those is that 3 years from the enactment date, the Commerce Commission will review the position to ensure that the prices being charged conform with the general principles of the Commerce Act. The second is that the New Zealand Food Safety Authority will be authorised to continue to negotiate with New Zealand\u0027s trading partners for the competitive supply of export red meat inspection services by private sector organisations. Should those negotiations be successful, the Government will then permit competitive tendering to occur for those services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI need to give some background as to what has been happening. The Meat Industry Association, in association with the New Zealand Food Safety Authority, has been in negotiations and discussions with our major export markets\u2014the European Union, China, and the United States of America\u2014for some time. The association has been saying that, because of the quality assurance that is already in place through the New Zealand Food Safety Authority and through the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, it would make sense to open up red meat inspections themselves to private sector operators. The association is gradually convincing those markets that that could go ahead. If that happens, then of course the association wants competition to come in, for the reasons I have mentioned, so that farmers prices remain reasonable. So we were delighted when the Government saw fit to agree to those conditions, and I will move an amendment to that effect in the Committee stage of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI am grateful that both New Zealand First and National have signalled that they will give their support to the amendment, ensuring it they will be accepted with wide, cross-party support in this Parliament. This kind of initiative is becoming a bit of a habit for United Future, in bringing some much-needed rationality to the polarisation that sometimes occurs when the two old parties fail to address issues in a reasonable way, and instead go back into their ideological bolt-holes. It is very good from that point of view to be working with people like those from the Greens and the M\u0101ori Party, who are also prepared to come to things with somewhat more of an open mind. That is a good initiative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe net result of this is that subject to those conditions that I have outlined, which will be in my amendment, it will ensure that costs to farmers are minimised, through competition between Government and private sector providers, to the benefit of New Zealand\u2019s vital multibillion-dollar meat exports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI thank in particular the Meat Industry Association, and also Federated Farmers, Business New Zealand, and the Deer Farmers Association for the very sound submissions they made to the Commerce Committee on this issue. Their arguments were well presented, logical, and reasonable, and I am very pleased that the House seems now to be on track to accept those arguments, which will enable the bill to proceed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe bill also provides for a merger between AgriQuality Ltd and Asure. The bill does not mandate it; it simply says if a feasibility study, a cost and benefit study, and so forth, support a merger going ahead, then the legal authority will be there for those two State-owned enterprises to become one. United Future has no particular view about that. We would be guided, as the bill provides, by those preconditions being met. It may be that merging these two State-owned enterprises is a move in the right direction. Our position is one of neutrality in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ESo really, having addressed the issue regarding the important meat inspections aspect, having assured ourselves that the pathway is there to at least open up the possibility of competitive services for red meat producers\u2014thus ensuring that we continue to maintain our competitive advantage in respect of our meat exports\u2014we are, generally speaking, very satisfied indeed with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI mentioned earlier that our three main export markets for red meat are the European Union, China, and the USA. It may be, for example, that China is the first major market to agree to the provision of red meat inspections by private companies, something that the Chinese Government\u2014amazingly, given it is still officially a communist government\u2014is now very open to. Should that occur, and when it occurs, those plants that are producing meat exclusively for the Chinese market, for example, with Government support will be able to seek competitive tenders for red meat inspections in those plants. On the other hand, a plant that is producing red meat for, let us say, both the Chinese and the European Union markets may or may not be able to avail itself of those competitive tendering processes at that point in time. One can foresee a situation where China may agree in a year\u2019 s time, but the European Union might be 5 years away, and the USA might be 7 years away. But eventually, I think, because of the logic of the case, it should happen. When it does happen, our red meat producers will be assured of the best possible prices and the most efficient delivery of red meat inspection services, whilst continuing to adhere to the high standards now demanded by those markets\u2014standards that today mean that those markets basically want traceability from the farm paddock right to the plate of the consumer. We will be able to deliver that kind of assurance to our important overseas customers. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdd58c33d32543dfa3a80d7604213343\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdd58c33d32543dfa3a80d7604213343\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. In preparation for this bill, the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill, our caucus had a deep and meaningful discussion, with all the members wanting to make this speech. We usually farm out our speeches, but in this case everyone except Mrs Turia came at it like a bull at a gate. When I asked Dr Sharples why he wanted to make the speech, he admitted that they had not \u201Cherd\u201D much about the topic. Hone Harawira said that he needed to take some stock, and decided that he was a fence-sitter and would leave it. Mrs Turia suggested that I am a cow because I get to deliver all the good speeches. So here I am to ram home some specific points. In the end, my declaring that I would make the speech myself was really putting the lambs to the slaughter. All I can say to my colleagues is \u201Cgrass-ias\u201D. Actually, I made no race of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is interested in considering the implications of a possible merger between AgriQuality Ltd and Asure New Zealand Ltd. Last week, in our lead-up to Budget week, we released our Treaty settlement package, which included the proposal to consider joint ventures with State-owned enterprises along with innovative approaches to other forms of development. \u201CShearing\u201D resources is a good idea. The Maori Party is interested in \u201Cmoooving\u201D to investigate the full range of approaches to respond to settlement priorities, and a joint venture with a State-owned enterprise is an idea that many of our iwi are interested in. It is not about pulling the wool over your eyes\u2014not at all, Mr Assistant Speaker. What we are interested in is the best interest of the nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u201CEwe\u201D know, Mr Assistant Speaker, that what we see in the case of AgriQuality and Asure New Zealand is their commitment to succeed as commercial trading enterprises. Clearly, they are committed to making hay while the sun shines. They are required under the State-owned enterprise model to operate as successful businesses, and although they return a dividend to the Crown as a shareholder, they nevertheless operate on a commercial basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn the case of AgriQuality and Asure New Zealand we indeed see ample evidence of commercial success and it would be \u201Cudderly\u201D silly not to support this. The New Zealand meat industry is, by anyone\u2019s estimations, more than an essential part of our economy. The industry has beefed itself up over time. Anyone who would deny the reliance of our economy on the $5 billion in export revenue earned by the New Zealand meat industry, or the $1.22 billion earned from domestic meat sales over the last year, would have to be more than a lamb sausage short in the great \u201Cbah-bah-que\u201D of life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EOf course, Maori feature as the master chefs, the producers, the marketers, the exporters, the meat processors, and, of course, the consumers. There would not be a marae or a M\u0101ori home in which the classic cuisine, the all-time favourite boil up, has not appeared on the menu. Surely most have \u201CHereford\u201D of it before! We know that the annual contribution of M\u0101ori primary sector producers to the GDP is now very significant, \u201Cpaddickularly\u201D when M\u0101ori agribusinesses are demonstrating considerable commercial success. There is also significant involvement of M\u0101ori working in the plants. Some would estimate it at about 80 percent of the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe come to this bill, then, aware of the undeniable profits that accrue to the economy from the meat supply chain. The sheer volume\u2014some 24 million lambs, 4.4 million sheep, and 4.2 million cattle and calves are processed and slaughtered every year\u2014is phenomenal. Since the first sheep landed in Aotearoa in 1773, courtesy of Captain Cook, and settlers flocked to this land, we have developed a reputation as a land of milk and honey, primarily due to the export meat industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWhen we spoke during the first reading debate on this bill a mere month ago, we spoke in favour of the possibilities of achieving economies of scale. There was \u201Cfarm\u201D more here than \u201Cmeats\u201D the eye! We considered the possibilities that a merger could yield\u2014benefits such as lower operational costs and higher profits. As the Commerce Committee report noted, bringing the two key entities of the meat industry together under one stand shepherds in the distinct possibility of a strengthened link between meat inspection services and other components of the meat supply chain. Now, this is really cutting to the chase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party anticipates that with such a high level of expertise and cooperation we should expect to see improved information flow, innovations, and use of resources; better coordination of skills, experience, technology, and infrastructure across the food and agriculture markets; scale-related efficiencies from having a single national service provider; and additional revenue opportunities from offering integrated quality assurance services to the wider food industry, amongst other factors. We supported the first reading knowing that AgriQuality and Asure New Zealand are currently the only entities that are able to, in practical terms, provide export red meat inspection services. Competitors get slaughtered or left cast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIt would seem from all probabilities that a merger could maximise the commercial and non-commercial ownership benefits of both. With the market success of these two State-owned enterprises, then, how major will be the impact of this bill in preventing the State-owned enterprise AgriQuality from providing export red meat inspection services? What provisions might be needed to ensure that AgriQuality will not be in competition with Asure prior to any merger, or are we just flogging a dead horse? What precisely will be the ramifications of the net cost incurred to the Crown as the owner of both AgriQuality and Asure if some competition were to occur? Would we be milking the system or creaming off the profits? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThose are the sorts of questions we have fielded. Although it would appear to be very good business sense for the business case of AgriQuality to not be in competition with Asure New Zealand, we know that there are some concerns associated with the ante and post-mortem meat inspection services, the downstream impacts for the global food safety regulatory environment, the implications of virtually creating a Government-sanctioned monopoly on the provision of meat inspection services, the risk of rising costs for purchasing such services, and wider precedents attached to the management of State-owned enterprises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe also note with frustration the all-too-familiar concern about what the Meat Industry Association described as the \u201Cextraordinary haste\u201D of the process of receiving and hearing submissions and reporting back to the House, and the lack of involvement in a process spanning some 4 years. Well, welcome to our world. We note that such concerns have led United Future to submit additional clauses to guarantee, by way of review, that the prices charged will conform with the general principles of the Commerce Act. We are also aware that a number of the submissions received described concerns that the bill did not contain either a business compliance cost statement or a regulatory impact statement. The submitters views were that they had not been given sufficient information on the impact of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe in the M\u0101ori Party are among the list of groups who were not offered the opportunity for consultation on this bill\u2014a process that began in 2003, yet raced through the House in a timetable of a month. We bring to this bill a prevailing interest in a genuine progress index, which weighs up the costs, measures the benefits against the deficits, and leads us to consider other questions. Although we recognise that primary beef and sheep production are key features of our wealth, we also know that that wealth is dependent on the exploitation of our natural capital\u2014our soil, our water, and our air. We will continue to support this bill at its second reading, but we intend to carry out our own consultation within the sector in order to consider our final position, and to shed some light on the concerns before this bill comes back to the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d171da0c3cb649d4a0af6b806216ead1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d171da0c3cb649d4a0af6b806216ead1\u0022\u003EDAVE HEREORA (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. I take this opportunity to stand and take a call in the second reading debate of the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill. Before I go on to my comments, I want to thank the previous speaker for his rendition and his attempt to pull the wool over our eyes by shearing the M\u0101ori Party policy on the hoof. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe Labour Government prefers to see State-owned enterprises collaborating and coordinating their activities to provide a quality service rather than competing at a cost to the taxpayer. The bill will prevent direct competition between the two State-owned enterprises in delivering export red meat inspection services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EI think it might be good sense to talk about the issue of competition and the fear of a monopoly. I think back and recall that in the late 1960s and throughout the 1970s, particularly within the meat industry, we were seriously faced with being locked out of the European market. To be phased out of that international market in terms of our red meat exports would have been a huge blow to us as a country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EI recall vividly that at that time the meat companies gathered together, along with the freezing workers, to analyse the problem and ensure we maintained the opportunity to export to the European market. Both groups set up a committee that was tasked with ensuring that we were able to meet the various standards required, particularly by the European market. The conditions that the committee placed on upgrading the entire export plant were huge. The conditions not only referred to ensuring confidence in the inspection of our red meat but also to the handling of meat, the manner in which it was stored, and to the whole plant in terms of cleanliness and standards that were required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EIt took about 3 years during the 1970s for us to get those plants up to a standard that was acceptable to the European market. I recall very clearly travelling to the Moerewa freezing works, Hellabys in Auckland, the Southdown freezing works, and the freezing works in Horotiu and Rangiuru as a part of our own internal inspection to ensure that we were meeting those standards, and to make sure that those workers, particularly the freezing workers, were up to the level and standard of meat handling required by the European market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EWe managed to do that, and as part of the ongoing inspections from the European market they came regularly, like clockwork, every 3 weeks to every plant to ensure that the plants were delivering those standards to their requirements. I use the chillers as an example. In those days chillers were buried in concrete. If a chiller buried in concrete was not covered by any white substance, then it would be shut down. Hence the plant would be shut down. That was a real threat at the time, and there had to be some genuine attempt to ensure we gave the European inspectors confidence that we were able to deliver on the standards they wanted. We went through that process in the 1970s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EAlso, as a part of the strategy, I suppose, with the meat companies, we lifted our standard beyond their standards. We had to, to ensure we delivered. We found that there was a subtle change to the second tier of the meat inspection criteria through the State-owned enterprises being formed\u2014I think that was in 1998\u2014to perform separate functions. Asure was set up to deliver meat inspection to the meat industry, and AgriQuality was established to provide auditing of food production systems, laboratory testing\u2014including TB testing\u2014and stock movement control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EWe viewed that as a second tier to implementing our own standards, but the importance of that second-tier introduction was to ensure that our meat inspection was maintaining that standard and quality required by those markets. To do that, Governments had to have some management and a watchful eye and control over that process. We heard earlier from other speakers that that is done through the New Zealand Food Safety Authority, and we are now enjoying the safety of our red meat exports and the confidence of European and international markets. There is safety and confidence\u2014we have no problem dealing with them, because they have confidence we are delivering to their standards. The fear with the creation of competition and the issue surrounding a monopoly is that it may damage that standard. It may lower that standard, thus putting us back into the awful situation where we may be faced with having to lose that export market. That is the last situation, obviously, that we want to find ourselves in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003ESo this bill is designed to ensure we prevent direct competition between the two State-owned companies in delivering export red meat inspection services. The bill also authorises the shareholding Ministers to issue a direction to AgriQuality preventing it from providing export meat inspection services. It enables more effective and efficient biosecurity response capabilities, which is a must, and it enables a merger of the two companies should that be viable to benefit shareholders and the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EIn the very short time I have participated in the Commerce Committee\u2019s hearing of evidence from submitters, I took note of the concern, particularly from the Public Service Association, that a change could bring about a reduction to meat inspectors\u2019 terms and conditions of employment. I do think we need to be conscious that we maintain\u2014particularly if there is a transfer of undertaking\u2014the opportunity for those meat inspectors to enjoy the same terms and conditions of employment. This bill is designed to ensure that they stay within those ramifications\u2014those limits\u2014and that they enjoy the confidence of being assured that their terms and conditions stay in place. Also, I do not think we should put ourselves into a situation where we become vulnerable and might be faced with redundancies that may cause an extra cost if we were to look at another opportunity or option. Without specific legislation, the Minister cannot order a direction to AgriQuality to prevent it from providing export red meat inspection services. The competition between both companies may erode shareholder value through potentially high redundancy costs, as I mentioned. The legislation is required to allow for a possible merger, providing that shareholder Ministers are satisfied that such a merger is viable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EI also want to talk about the position taken by United Future, as noted in the report of the Commerce Committee. United Future made two points in the amendments it put forward. The first is: \u201CThat three years from the enactment date the Commerce Commission will review the provision of meat inspection services to ensure that the prices charged conform with the general principles of the Commerce Act 1986.\u201D It appears that we do not have a major problem with that. I think we should have an opportunity to review it, and I am sure there should not be any problem supporting that. The second point is: \u201CNotwithstanding this Act, the New Zealand Food Safety Authority is authorised to continue to negotiate with New Zealand\u2019s trading partner or partners for the recognition of the competitive supply of export red meat inspection services by organisations other than the Crown. Should such negotiations be successful, the Crown shall permit competitive tendering to occur for those services.\u201D That primarily relates to the option that the bill provides, as time progresses, of merging, if that is the case. I think the bill before us is a good bill. It provides some confidence and some security in our red meat inspection. I commend it to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00220b7d25d852394ebc84e2aeb3ada02c1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b7d25d852394ebc84e2aeb3ada02c1a\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E National\u2019s position is well known. We will be voting against the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill, as previous speakers have said. However, we will be supporting Gordon Copeland\u2019s amendments. We think they are a desirable move, and we will be supporting them during the Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe bill provides a mechanism to prevent two State-owned enterprises\u2014AgriQuality Ltd and Asure New Zealand Ltd\u2014from competing against one another in the provision of red meat inspection services. It is interesting that in June last year the Minister for State Owned Enterprises talked of flexibility and of how there needs to be competition. Yet AgriQuality Ltd did exactly what the Minister said last year should happen\u2014it signalled its intention to move into the field of meat inspection\u2014and now this bill comes along to prevent that from happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe Government is also considering in the bill the possibility of merging AgriQuality and Asure to maximise both their commercial and their non-commercial ownership benefits. The business case for a merger still has to be established. The economic benefits from a merger are expected to come from the establishment of a single, integrated provider of services related to primary sector food safety and biosecurity. That provision of the bill expires 2 years after the date of assent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ENational opposes the bill. We believe in competition. We oppose the bill but will support, as I mentioned, Gordon Copeland\u2019s amendments on behalf of United Future. I mentioned earlier that last year the Minister for State Owned Enterprises wanted to move away from Asure\u2019s monopoly on red meat inspection, and said that there should be the flexibility for State-owned enterprises to be able to compete. Already, in the energy sector, we have State-owned enterprises that compete. In the North Island we have Genesis Energy and Mighty River Power on the Waikato River, and in the South Island we have Meridian Energy. These three State-owned enterprises are State generators that compete in the energy market. So why can we not have competition within the meat inspection area? It is about providing meat inspection services to the meat industry, which is a $5 billion a year export market and is very important to New Zealand\u2019s economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EAgriQuality took up that challenge last year to move into the market of meat inspection. Unfortunately, this bill will stifle that initiative and not allow it to happen. Clearly, the Minister thinks that competition is duplication. That is not something we subscribe to. National considers that the loss of competition is not in the primary sector\u2019s best interests\u2014that it could lead to lack of innovation and an increase in the costs of red meat inspection\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b25b722467d413b9d1fb585c87d83a9\u0022\u003EDianne Yates\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t have innovative meat inspection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d3c71284b44441bb553013d770d9f10\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: We do. Technology and science are innovative around the world, and we have to keep up with those sorts of technologies. That is why we are leaders in the field. Fancy saying that! So we could have a lack of innovation and a fall in the quality of services. We need competition to keep them on their toes\u2014to keep the costs down. Of course, the submitters who came forward\u2014there were only nine of them, because of the short time frame during which submitters were allowed input into this bill\u2014all talked about the importance of competition, the importance of keeping costs down, and the importance of accountability, which they believe this bill does not cater for. In fact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222377d4eb13c7491bb66f7f66f1ab14b5\u0022\u003EDianne Yates\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213a613bf92754c6b8a492da6f1939dcd\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that member says \u201Crubbish\u201D, but a person who probably knows more about meat and meat inspection is the Chairman of the Meat Industry Association, Bill Falconer, who comes from the Waikato. He said that the competition between AgriQuality and Asure was a key driver in improving cost efficiency within the industry, without which costs would inevitably rise. He is a person who understands what this is all about. He is a person who is recognised in the commercial sector and in the industry as a very prominent director and as somebody who knows what makes the world go round. He made the statement, which I think is significant, that in 47 years of being in and around Government he had never seen a major trade organisation treated so shabbily. That is what he said. The Government should be absolutely ashamed of what it is trying to do here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022996d0d65eb2e4fbaa42b573e8fbf98fc\u0022\u003EDianne Yates\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, stop it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022921fa2cc359b4c2fa4511e0d54e86291\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: What would the member know about meat inspection services? This is a very important industry to New Zealand\u2019s economy. Here is the chairman of the Meat Industry Association telling it how it should be. He goes on to say that the possibility of competition is an important check against the abuse of market power, and he cannot believe that the Government is indifferent to that reality and wants to take away that check without putting something equally effective in its place. That is what he said, and I would put his word and his understanding of the meat industry well ahead of what any member on the Government side would have to say about this. He goes on to say how ironic it is that this is the year designated as Export Year, yet the Government is trying to stifle initiative and stifle innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf3cb19fa1684bf3bde433be8407f8a1\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, don\u2019t be ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022911187f1046f41c8be4a967387c6d657\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: This is the reason why you are languishing in the polls. It is because you have lost touch with the reality of what is happening in the marketplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce497174f54423b9fcc37e3a114733f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022002384296a7a42bb8c7ccd57b7ecf4a9\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry for bringing you into it, Mr Assistant Speaker, but you know where I am coming from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EAn important point, as I mentioned before, is that within the short time frame this bill was before the Commerce Committee there were only nine submitters, and another thing that was brought up was that no cost-benefit analysis had been done and that there was no regulatory impact statement. One would have thought that if the bill was so important, we would be able to look at what the compliance cost regime would be, but that is not there. It is absolutely not there, and that is an indictment on this Government. It is trying to push through legislation that has absolutely no merit at all. One of the important things about scrutinising legislation is that there is a compliance cost statement and a regulatory impact statement so that we can assess and look at the compliance costs and what they actually mean. But, no, because this legislation is being rushed through and there has not been a chance for other submitters to have input, we find that that has been done away with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221d295e7a5a74d2c827bef0a9088248b\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: You can tell how enthusiastic the National Party is because there are only two of you in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269e401daba134f009468407ee0d9632a\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is about quality. We have had a number of speakers who actually understand these issues. It is about getting through the important message that this Government is trying to rush through legislation that does not have the support of the industry at all. The Government allowed only a month for submissions. It does not want competition in the marketplace. National wants competition and we are asking this Government where the regulatory impact statement is, and where the accountability is for an industry that is bringing in $5 billion a year. The Government does not want competition; it thinks that competition is wrong. I say to the Government members opposite that we believe in accountability. We believe in a very robust, transparent system and the only way we can have that is to have competition in the marketplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EI say again that National is not prepared to support this legislation. We will support the amendments in the name of Gordon Copeland. I take solace from the fact that Bill Falconer, who is from the Waikato and is the Chairman of the Meat Industry Association, has said that this is absolutely shabby. This is important legislation; we cannot let it go through as it is because it impacts on New Zealand\u2019s standing internationally. Our reputation is at stake here. Competition is important. It is not a monopoly position. We want competition and having AgriQuality and Asure providing red meat inspection is important for the scrutiny, transparency, and robustness of a very important export industry. That is why National opposes this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u00225ad0ce254f844719b279455f6a575478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ad0ce254f844719b279455f6a575478\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on the second reading of the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill. I agree with the previous speaker, Lindsay Tisch, that the Meat Industry Association Chairman, Mr Bill Falconer, is indeed a highly regarded individual. I was most pleased to read his comments about the amendments to the bill, which he says take away the bulk of the industry\u2019s concerns. That is very good news and I thank Gordon Copeland for the amendments he brought to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThis is a very important bill. I was not a member of the Commerce Committee, but I am a member of the Primary Production Committee, which has dealt with the financial reviews of AgriQuality Ltd and Asure New Zealand Ltd over a number of years. Asure has come before the select committee on a number of occasions. I think AgriQuality has come before the select committee every year for about the last 5 years, at least. They are certainly two organisations that we on the Primary Production Committee know very well. Of course, I also used to work for AgriQuality Ltd. It is an organisation that I have quite a bit of knowledge about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ECertainly one of the concerns that has been raised over a number of years is the idea of two State-owned enterprises coming into the same market together. I do not believe that this ensures real competition in that area, and let us not forget that this is a unique area. It is not really an open market. A lot of what we can and cannot do in this area is dictated by international agreements and international regulatory authorities that prefer to recognise Government authorisation schemes. It is also true, though, that the Government is not in any way opposed to the private sector being involved in this, but it would need to be accepted by the overseas international regulatory authorities that decide whether our processes are good enough to allow our products to be imported into their countries. That is the most important thing. The last thing that anyone in this House, across the board, wants is for our export markets to be affected. So we do need to tread very carefully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EBut let us be quite clear that this is not open slather in the open market right now, anyway. What we are asking is where is the sense, the logic, and the value for taxpayers\u2019 money in having two State-owned enterprises\u2015two taxpayer-owned enterprises\u2015going into the same area. This is not an uncommon problem in the sector. Great changes happened in this sector in 1998. AgriQuality split away from MAF Quality Management into its own company. One might have thought that at that stage people would anticipate some of these problems arising. My understanding is that at that stage, the meat inspectors all worked under one ministry. What we have seen since then, with the splitting off and the corporatisation of this area, is big problems when contracts are lost by one company and picked up by another, with workers potentially being laid off, and redundancies being paid out of that taxpayer investment, only to be then picked up by the other State-owned enterprise and re-employed. I do not think there are many people out there who would think that is a good investment of taxpayer money at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EOf course, this legislation also deals with a possible merger of AgriQuality and Asure. It is by no means certain and a lot of water will go under the bridge before that happens. It is certainly not a new idea. It has been kicking around for a long time. AgriQuality, through its annual reports and statements of intent, has made no bones about the fact that it has been very keen on a merger with Asure for a long time. It sees a lot of strategic value in that because, after all, AgriQuality works on the premise of \u201Cfrom the farm to the fork\u201D. It has a fantastic network across all the farms of New Zealand\u2015a great database. I am sure the services provided by Asure could be greatly enhanced by the intellectual property that AgriQuality already owns. I think that over time we have seen a continuing overlap of the services that these two organisations provide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ELast year, the select committee visited Asure in the process of its financial review. I have to say that it is an enormously impressive organisation. The service that it provides really is first class. Of course it is not just the inspection of the meat that is carried out. There is also inspection of the plants in order to ensure that we never face barriers into overseas markets because of the quality of the product and the quality of the plants that the meat is going through. When one goes there to see the work that is carried out, one realises, as the staff in the plants go over thousands and thousands of carcasses looking for a single speck of dust, just how efficient and just how careful they have to be in carrying out that work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWhen we visited the plant, we talked to meat inspectors who were on the floor while they were having their break. They told us that it is a constant concern to them that they may be shifted from one organisation to another with very little notice. Often these contracts are handed over quite abruptly. It is a very work-intensive area. When they have a lot of work going through they work very, very long hours. Certainly, they relayed their concerns that, in terms of their job security, they were constantly worried about contracts being handed over. They accepted that that was an important part of that process and that those services needed to be tendered out, but they felt that this was made even harder in the knowledge of the fact that it was another State-owned enterprise that was tendering against them. The question about whether that was appropriate was being asked even back then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EComing back to the United Future amendments, I think they are very sensible. It is important that, if we come down to one organisation and if Asure is the only organisation carrying this out, we can have an assurance from it that the prices are not going to spiral because we now have this enormous monopoly. I have seen Asure staff come before our select committee; I have seen their work ethic and the work they carry out in their business, and how seriously they take their commitment to the primary production sector. They really do see themselves as a very important part of that sector. They hold enormous respect for it, as the rest of us do. They appreciate, as the rest of us do, the importance of that sector to the New Zealand economy. I think it is unfair to suggest that they are suddenly going to want to strip\u2014to gorge\u2014the sector of cash and to damage the sector in any way. Any one who has visited Asure and who has talked to its board and its management team would be able to say that the commitment of Asure staff to this sector is undeniable, and that they are not out to rort the sector for every cent they can get. But I still think it is wise to have prices subject to Commerce Commission scrutiny, and I am sure that that will be welcomed by many members in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe second amendment just reiterates that the Crown will permit competitive tendering for services if those overseas authorities that we talked about recognise the private provision of export meat inspection services. I think it is important not to put the cart before the horse here. It is important that we continue to get our product into overseas markets. If overseas regulatory authorities are not going to accept private provision of these services for any reason, then that has to be the guiding factor in any decision by the New Zealand Food Safety Authority to allow private provision in that area. As we know, the New Zealand Food Safety Authority is negotiating with overseas authorities to gain acceptance of these private sector operations. I think that would be a good step forward and I welcome the amendment that makes it explicit that there is nothing precluding that from happening. It is important also to point out that it has been questioned that the quality of this meat inspection might suffer if there is a monopoly\u2014if Asure New Zealand only is carrying it out. Of course, this is audited by the New Zealand Food Safety Authority and by the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, and the quality will not drop in relation to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EOne final thing is TB testing, which is one of the concerns that has been raised again if there is to be a merger of AgriQuality and Asure. There is a lot of water to go under the bridge before that happens, but a lot of the contracts to 2009 are set. The conditions in those will remain the same, and there are already actual and other potential private providers of this service who could come into the TB industry. So it is not really comparing apples with oranges to compare the meat inspection industry with the TB testing industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI reiterate that I think these were inevitable pitfalls in the corporatisation of this sector. They should have been thought of at the time and we are working through them now. Both AgriQuality New Zealand Ltd and Asure New Zealand Ltd definitely view themselves as an integral part of the primary production sector. They both work very much as a cog in that wheel, and I think any suggestion that they would be out to sabotage the sector is grossly unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cfd625d5d67144a49474f383b8be3358\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a42eccae943d4a88a07e72913f21ae5d\u0022\u003E Social Security Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227f7ce11a4b7e4495865108996ce333a7\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000570\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 9 May.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c9e67a8659a464d89ae450f775a6db8\u0022\u003EPart 1  Provisions coming into force on 28 May or 2 July 2007 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u002244ce80f8bb2b4a5a970039a392840a70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244ce80f8bb2b4a5a970039a392840a70\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E When I was speaking last week about this matter, I was talking about the extraordinary performance of this Government, or, more accurately, the extraordinary performance of Work and Income front-line staff and their dedication to the delivery of the wonderful results we have seen recently in New Zealand in relation to reduced youth unemployment. Most New Zealanders are already only too well aware of the delivery of this Government in terms of its policy around supporting people into work. But, for most New Zealanders, the most rewarding of Work and Income\u2019s successes is the breaking of a cycle we inherited from our political predecessors in terms of unemployment, work expectations, and the proper work ethic for young people. That is, perhaps, the most rewarding of the initiatives of Work and Income, and I compliment it on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EI would like to finish this call by reinforcing the contents of the document I was fortunate to be able to table in Parliament with the leave of members of the House earlier today. The fact is that at the end of last month, April 2007, there were 28 Work and Income service centres with nil\u2014zero\u2014unemployed youth aged 18 and 19 receiving the unemployment benefit, and there were a further 66 Work and Income service centres with fewer than 10 such unemployed youth on their books. That is an extraordinary achievement and a very serious compliment to the efforts of the policy analysts who designed the Working New Zealand policy, which is so successful, and the people on the front line who are already delivering what are, in fact, the effects of this legislation, on a voluntary basis. A number of calls were taken by myself and my colleagues last week about this issue. This legislation is about the legal mandating of an approach that is already delivering results for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EI guess that is why I and my colleagues find it so inconceivable and illogical that the Opposition\u2014despite its support of these amendments in the select committee process and its voting for them at deliberation time\u2014continues to oppose this legislation in the House. I just say to members opposite that they need to consider the fact that the residents of Alexandra, Ashburton, Blenheim, Christchurch City, Hastings East, Hastings West, H\u0101wera, Helensville, Hornby, Kamo, Kilbirnie, Linwood, Matamata, Mount Maunganui, New Brighton, \u014Cp\u014Dtiki, \u014Ctaki, Papanui, Point Chevalier, Queenstown, Riccarton, Richmond, Sydenham, Tauranga, Te K\u016Biti, Thames, T\u016Brangi, and Warkworth are the lucky centres where Work and Income offices have no unemployed 18 and 19-year-olds on their books. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244105a7dc87147e5aab96d6c34fdc478\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: None?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022431a5916907e45d183fe70dd02e50380\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: None\u2014zero. And the Opposition is opposing the legislation! I will not dwell on this matter further, but that was a list of 28 Work and Income service centres. There is a further list of 66, which I am happy to dwell on if the member asks. I will now dwell on that. There is a list of 66 service centres where there are fewer than 10 unemployed people in that 18 and 19-year-old cohort on the books. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EWhen one considers that there are only 135 Work and Income service centres, the fact that 28 have zero unemployed 18 and 19-year-olds on their rolls, and the fact that that 66 have fewer than 10 unemployed 18 and 19-year-olds, one can see an extraordinary record of policy delivery to New Zealanders and real support for them by our Work and Income front-line people. For the benefit of those National Party members who find this so hard to take, I will detail those. The real high count starts with Cambridge. It has nine unemployed 18 and 19-year-olds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eeb5864d9f9407387e178cb451ef2cf\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Nine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be16bd2d27934b5fa6392cacde15b68a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: It has nine on the roll, as do Ponsonby / Grey Lynn and Wairoa. They are the only three with nine 18 and 19-year-olds on the unemployment roll. The fortunate front-line centres with only eight are Lower Hutt, Onehunga, and Tokoroa. The three centres with seven are Huntly, \u014Ct\u0101huhu, and Takapuna. There is a very long list of centres with six 18 and 19-year-olds receiving the unemployment benefit. I will detail these for the National members who have asked. They are Avondale, Greymouth, Highland Park, Horowhenua, Masterton, Mount Albert, Mount Eden, Queen Street, Three Kings, Waitara, Waiuku, Westport, and Whakat\u0101ne. Those with five\u2014a group about the same size\u2014are Feilding, Johnsonville, Kait\u0101ia, Kawakawa, Kawerau, \u014Crewa, Papatoetoe, Ruat\u014Dria, and Waih\u012B. The group with four is Glenfield, Gore, Kaiapoi, Kaiti, New Lynn, Palmerston North Terrace End, and Rangiora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EI reinforce that these achievements are the result of the policy that this bill mandates. It is operating currently on a completely voluntary basis, and it is being extraordinarily successful, despite the opposition of the National Party members, who clearly do not want to see Work and Income supporting people into work. Before I get to the centres with zero 18 and 19-year-olds on their register, I have a long list of areas with only three or two. That list starts with Birkinhead District, Foxton, Kaikohe, Marton, Mosgiel, Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia, \u014C\u0101maru, Stratford, and Waiheke. The centres with only two are Albany, Dargaville, Napier, Paeroa, Stanmore Road, Taihape, Taup\u014D, and Waipukurau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EJust before we get to the big zeros\u2014and I am happy to repeat all 28 of them again for Opposition members when I get the opportunity\u2014let me tell them that in Balclutha there is only one 18 or 19-year-old. Only one! I am sure we do know the person\u2019s name and he or she will not be on the register, receiving the unemployment benefit, for very long. Similarly, there is only one person on the list in Browns Bay, Greerton, Kerikeri, Morrinsville, Motueka, Nelson, Shirley, Taradale, Taumarunui, and Te Awamutu. So in all those areas only one 18 or 19-year-old is receiving the unemployment benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EIt must be incredibly frustrating for Mrs Tolley to sit over there bleating about these figures, but the fact of the matter is that when those members, appropriately located on the Opposition benches, were in Government there were 161,000 New Zealanders on the National Party\u2019s scrap heap\u2014like the National Party members\u2014unemployed. One of the most impressive achievements of many impressive achievements of this Government, which will sit on the Treasury benches for many years henceforth, is the fact that that number went to 30,000 6 weeks ago and to 28,000 a month ago, and last month it dropped to 26,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003ENow, that is too many people unemployed\u2014of course it is. But the policies of this Government and the amazing front-line work of Work and Income has moved hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders from a position where they were parked by the previous Government\u2014which used economic settings, including unemployment, as a tool to balance its books\u2014to a situation where tens of thousands of them have been assisted into productive work. That is what this legislation is about, and that is why I find it so absolutely incomprehensible, so indefensible, and, frankly, so despicable that the very people who are bleating now and constantly beat on sickness and invalids beneficiaries, who need support from this community, are not supporting this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022eacc7287695844898782810e077dfc19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eacc7287695844898782810e077dfc19\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this bill, and in particular to Part 1. I found those figures from the Minister very fascinating, because what I would like him to explain to us is why the household labour force survey does not come up with the same sorts of figures. In fact, in March 2000 there were 24,200 unemployed 15 to 19-year-olds, yet the March 2007 household labour force survey states that there are 27,800 unemployed 15 to 19-year-olds. Now, that is an increase, not a decrease. So what is happening? The answer is probably that, apart from the fact that these people are being shoved from one benefit to another and are being put on to dopey training schemes, which will give them absolutely nothing, except, probably, student loans that they have to pay off\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237ca3eeabba5457b88cd04af4f155d09\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Name the dopey schemes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220036fb113414453da35f816dd2d9ef75\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Twilight golf. Did Labour have that? That was one of Labour\u2019s, was it not? Yes, it was. Unfortunately, what we have is figures that nobody actually believes. We have a situation where the household labour force survey, which most people think is a pretty impressive survey and is accepted everywhere, keeps showing there are all these 15 to 19-year-old unemployed people. If the household labour force survey is so wrong, then we should know why it is so wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EObviously, there is not enough work. The Minister is very quick to take credit for getting all these people into work, but how many jobs has he created? I can tell the Committee that the answer is lots of jobs in the Ministry of Social Development, and given that he is always so keen to talk about the fact that the number of beneficiaries is coming down at the moment, he might like to explain why it is that the budget for the welfare system keeps going up, far surpassing the modest increases in the national superannuation payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E Why is it that we have more bureaucrats in the Ministry of Social Development, when according to his records there are two people in some places and no people in others? Well, obviously the staff there are not needed to do anything. Clearly, there is nothing to do. The mayors who got together and said they needed to do something to get youth off the street and into work\u2014those 27,800 youth\u2014have given themselves an extension until 2009. The reason they have done that is that they know there is not a lot of point in shifting a young person from an unemployment benefit on to a sickness benefit and telling them that that is the way to go, just so that these numbers can look better. Unfortunately, that is, in fact, what is happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c5f9b73210480ea0eb2a0e7903c702\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not right; you know that\u2019s not right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227b3a6ffa9354da28c59530bc2cd7390\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Fairbrother that we know it is right. According to the Minister\u2019s own figures 8,500 people just last year were shifted from the unemployment benefit on to the sickness benefit. Doctors are saying they want better criteria, because the criteria they have been given are simply not working. Instead, the Minister says: \u201COh, you\u2019re blaming doctors.\u201D Not me. I am not blaming doctors. The doctors are saying the criteria are wrong. This Government loosened up the criteria, and now everybody is supposedly stressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWell, I find that to be something we should take very seriously. It is an absolutely chronic situation when we have young people being told they should be on a sickness benefit because that would make the figures look better. It is a cynical manipulation of the welfare system, and it is one of the reasons that the welfare budget keeps going up, despite the supposed fall in beneficiary numbers. When we, in fact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022270d11ba572343439bf84a3d7cd54234\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: But you support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282bed38e08b14f918d93fbd038e347f2\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not support the bill. The reason we cannot support the bill is that some of its parts are so contrary to our views. Some of the parts are good, and I have tried to list as many good points as I can. But it is hard to do so when I am being abused so much from the Labour side. That must be because that is the way Labour members behave when the polls are so bad that everybody has turned off their phones and no one wants to take their calls any more. Everybody does this because Labour members get very, very nasty and trot out these figures that nobody believes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI saw a notice the other day from Rick Barker, who used to be the MP for Tukituki until he got beaten by Craig Foss. Well, he is now no longer there. He put out a notice saying no one was unemployed in Flaxmere. Unfortunately, some of the locals got together and said that 20 unemployed people were actually on the court list and were about to be tried for criminal activities\u2014and they were supposedly unemployed. So we have to wonder what we are talking about. Have members ever wondered about magical numbers? This Government has them. It magically twists around numbers. One of the other funny little things that this Minister does is that he has 82 questions he is not answering at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022c372a4be102c4d72acb6a0efe59ec540\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c372a4be102c4d72acb6a0efe59ec540\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chairperson, for the opportunity to speak on the Social Security Amendment Bill. It seems that there is a bit of an irony when we have the Minister, David Benson-Pope, going through a long, long list of figures\u2014a very, very long list, I might say\u2014then bringing in such complicated, bureaucratic legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EOne of the things he has just accused the previous Government of doing\u2014and he finds it, in his words, \u201Cdespicable\u201D\u2014is the use of economic tools to get people off work. Well, I think it is important to look at the explanatory note of this Government bill, when it was brought into the House. Mr Benson-Pope was quite happy to talk about sanctions then. The explanatory note states: \u201CWhen people fail to meet their requirements without good and sufficient reason, a sanction will be imposed.\u201D That is what Mr Benson-Pope\u2019s bill stated, and the explanatory note actually goes into the details of it: \u201CThe sanction regime for people on domestic purposes or widow\u2019s benefits is unchanged. Failure to meet their PDEP requirements\u201D\u2014that is the personal development plan, and, of course, it is one of Labour\u2019s pieces of bureaucracy, which one does not actually have to keep to any more\u2014\u201Cresults in a 20% reduction in the benefit for the first 4 weeks and a further 30% reduction after that \u2026\u201D\u2014to a maximum of 50 percent\u2014\u201Cuntil they comply.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThat is the true Mr Benson-Pope, who was using economic tools. It was not until he finally went out and was browbeaten by fellow members of the union he belonged to and by others who supported him\u2014and those numbers are crumbling, after all\u2014that he relented and said he would not have the sanction regimes any more. So Mr Benson-Pope had better take a call and explain to the Committee why, in the explanatory note, there are details of sanctions and economic tools, and comments about how successful they would be in moving people into work from the unemployment benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EMr Benson-Pope has also gone through a very wearying list of centres where there are offices with very little to do, because of the low number of unemployed youth. We are happy about that. It follows a trend that started from 1990, when the last National Government came into office and gradually inflation came down, interest rates came down, employment came up, and unemployment came down. That is all that is happening. It has occurred despite the Labour Government, not because of it. I was interested that Mr Benson-Pope said only five youths were still on the unemployment register in Waiuku, but he has not talked about all the problems in that town. It is the same in T\u016Brangi\u2014he said no one was unemployed in T\u016Brangi. I wonder whether he has been to those towns and had a real look at the youth crime that is going on\u2014the youth crime that this Labour Government has failed to do anything whatsoever about. In fact, it has become much, much worse during Labour\u2019s tenure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EOf course, the major problem is the absolute way that this Labour Government has reconfigured the figures regarding sickness and invalids benefits\u2014the 50 percent increase over the last 7 years. That is a contortionist act of the same magnitude as Mr Benson-Pope saying that this Government does not want to use economic tools. Of course it does, but he has been browbeaten by his supporters into not doing so. When it comes to sickness and invalids benefits, Mr Benson-Pope cannot hide. He has been protecting large numbers of New Zealanders, without making any changes at all to the eligibility criteria in terms of getting on to those benefits. As my colleague Judith Collins said, doctors want a better system of criteria for eligibility, and the Labour Government has, time and time again, failed to address that very important question. We have had no major epidemics in New Zealand over the last 7 years. A 50 percent increase in invalids and sickness benefits during that time is just a figment of the reality of what is happening. The reality is that Labour has not adjusted the criteria so that they are realistic, and it has shifted people from the unemployment benefit on to an invalids or a sickness benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u002234b745d2718e45b2bdfc2de925cd9732\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234b745d2718e45b2bdfc2de925cd9732\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Committee stage of the Social Security Amendment Bill. The National Party is opposing this bill, but it does recognise that a handful of good amendments are contained in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe most important changes in this bill are that it introduces a new pre-benefit activity requirement for applicants, and that the unemployment benefit will enhance the current requirements for people who are work tested. The bill introduces planning requirements for sickness and invalids benefits, it introduces an activity requirement for young people receiving an independent youth benefit, and it updates the maximum stand-down period to 2 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThis bill is meant to change the focus from a \u201Cbenefit first\u201D mentality, which Work and Income had adopted, to a \u201Cwork first\u201D mentality. Unfortunately, this amendment is not inspirational enough for either Work and Income or its clients. Work and Income and its clients can still think of their unemployment entitlements first, as opposed to considering what work they should be looking for, what work they can do, and how they can get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E Even though Labour claims that the number receiving the unemployment benefit has dropped, it is a fact that the numbers on the sickness benefit and the invalids benefit have risen. It is also a fact that there has been a movement of people from the unemployment benefit to the sickness and invalids benefits. Can this be interpreted as those beneficiaries actually getting sick as a result of decreased personal expectations, the stress of not being employed, or the lack of social interaction that results from unemployment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003ERecently I spoke to a constituent who was on a domestic purposes benefit. She stated that she had been on the benefit for a number of years. She had not once been asked whether she would like to go back to work. She had not once been asked by Work and Income what type of work she would like. She had not been once been asked how Work and Income could help her to find work. The sad thing was that she wanted to work, she wanted to improve her standard of living, she wanted to improve her life, and she wanted to improve her children\u2019s lives. She wanted to retrain; she wanted a good job. She has done this now, all on her own. She has had no help. This legislation, this change for her, will not help her at all. It will not improve her life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a31919b4d9e4735aa53cc82d5df16b5\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: Why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d01d78d7e732429181252e4af61b0406\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS\u003C/span\u003E: Because there was not a \u201Cwork first\u201D mentality; it was a \u201Cbenefit first\u201D mentality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThis bill also talks about children\u201416, 17, and 18-year-olds\u2014who can go on to the domestic purposes benefit to look after those who are invalids or sick, and those who could be hospitalised. This is a good thing, but do we really want to trap these young people into being on the domestic purposes benefit to provide for relatives and others in need? Surely the Government itself can provide for these people in need. Surely we can provide a safety net for them without 17 and 18-year-olds doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe sanctions in this bill make interesting reading. It is clear that when people fail to meet requirements without good reason, a sanction will be imposed. However, activity in the community is exempt from that sanction. We do not support this bill, but we do recognise that there is the odd thing in it that will help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u00222213df32a91742cb969a84c9a05c5bb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222213df32a91742cb969a84c9a05c5bb9\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002226b08324a46042269ffe0c8b824090e5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000610\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 113 in the name of Sue Bradford to clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022200383db35124556910887c72cf989fe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000611\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 113 in the name of Sue Bradford to clause 9 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000612\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000613\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 113 in the name of Sue Bradford to clause 15 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000614\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000615\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 114 in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope to clause 20 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222475ce143c6945f49b2f39522e6b995b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ea240f2e58044ce6935058178dcef4aa\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022341960338e4c4900a27e1a28bbb8e0b8\u0022\u003EPart 2  Provisions coming into force on 24 September 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00221353b186eb7b49cdbdeb44bece15e3fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221353b186eb7b49cdbdeb44bece15e3fc\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E In speaking on Part 2, I will try to find something nice to say, and I think I have found it. What I can say is that National is very pleased that there will now be a section 33A, to enable a person in receipt of an invalids benefit granted on the grounds of his or her sickness, injury, disability, or total blindness to be absent from New Zealand in order to receive vocational training or disability assistance training if the chief executive is satisfied that the training is particularly good for the person. We think that that is a reasonable provision and something that actually looks at the fact that sometimes people will need to travel overseas, and it would be extraordinarily counterproductive for people to suddenly not be entitled to receive their benefit because they are overseas for a short period of time in order to increase their ability to find work when they come back to New Zealand. We think that is a good move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the things we do not like about Part 2 is the provision in relation, particularly, to clause 30. It follows on from clause 29, which is all about personal development and employment plans. We heard quite a bit about personal development and employment plans in the submissions to the select committee. One of the things we heard, which deeply disturbed many of us, was that a recent study for the Families Commission\u2014presumably paid for by the commission, which certainly contracted for the study and apparently peer reviewed it\u2014by the Rotorua Peoples Advocacy Centre, found that personal development and employment plans were all very well and good, except that most of the people whom the centre came across had never actually received a copy of their plan. According to the submitter from the Rotorua Peoples Advocacy Centre, when the Work and Income person was asked why beneficiaries do not get a copy of their plan, the answer was: \u201CBecause nobody expects them to do anything with it.\u201D\u2014or words to that effect. We thought that was quite disturbing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the things I see in the bill is that there are significant sanctions in relation to some of these personal development plans. But I do not think I can see anywhere here a requirement that the beneficiary be given a copy of his or her plan. I would have thought that that was a pretty basic requirement for a plan that is supposed to be an annual plan, a plan that should be able to be looked at and worked on, but also a plan that has some sanctions with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EPerhaps I am missing the point here in terms of the actual section where it should state that, but I do not see any obligation in the bill. I am particularly concerned when there are going to be sanctions relating to these plans that they be treated seriously. There is an ability here, for instance, for the chief executive\u2014in other words, the person working at Work and Income\u2014to decide that the beneficiary has not demonstrated commitment to the goals in his or her plan. I am just a little bit concerned about that, because I think that that quite blanket discretion gives a huge amount of power to a Work and Income staff member. That power might be well exercised\u2014in most cases, no doubt it will be\u2014but there does not seem to be much in the way of ability for the beneficiary to actually say: \u201CWell, look, I have been doing my very best according to this plan, but I am going to be sanctioned because I am being told that I am not doing my best.\u201D We think that that is something that should be looked at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIn particular, I note the quite interesting new amendment that the Government wanted in, clause 30(3A), which inserts section 60S(5A), relating to the chief executive not being able to take into account a refusal or failure to undertake activity in the community. What we are saying to beneficiaries with this bill is that they have to undertake all sorts of plans and training\u2014everything except work experience. So the one thing that is most likely to be able to get them into a work situation where they can start working alongside other people, in order to get the idea of what to do and to get their confidence going, is not going to be part of the plan\u2014certainly not part of the sanction parts of the plan. What is really the point of these sanctions, when we are actually saying to beneficiaries: \u201CWell, you don\u2019t have to do the work experience bit. You don\u2019t actually have to get out there and do anything. You just have to go to endless seminars.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u00228627b27ebeb24160ba1200c4d4f5a117\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228627b27ebeb24160ba1200c4d4f5a117\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and speak in support of Part 2 of the Social Security Amendment Bill. In doing so, I once again commend Russell Fairbrother for his very good chairing of the Social Services Committee. I also acknowledge the many submitters who came along and told their stories. I believe that at the end of it the majority of the select committee members had listened very hard and taken on board the issues that had been raised, and I believe that we brought back to the House a really good report. I think the bill is the better for the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI am proud that the purpose of this bill is to enable the provision of financial and other support, as appropriate. The bill is to help people to support themselves and their dependants while they are not in paid employment. But the bill\u2019s real focus is to help people find or retain paid employment. It will help people for whom work may not currently be appropriate\u2014because of sickness, injury, disability, or perhaps caring for a young child\u2014to prepare for a future career in the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe bill accepts that there are certainly circumstances in our society whereby it is not appropriate for people to be in paid work. Indeed, it is the role of a good society, of a caring society, to care for and support those people\u2014whether they be mothers or people who are impaired in some way through sickness or injury. We will have a richer, better, more benevolent society if our citizens are supported in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the basic principles. Working with people to assist them into paid employment means offering the best opportunity possible for them to achieve their full potential. Indeed, the best way that we can do that is by offering job opportunities, by offering training, by considering what is the best training for that person, by having a department that does not treat people as just a mass but whose staff sit down with them, talk realistically about their aspirations and goals, and steer and support them in the right direction. Clearly, that is happening. Clearly, we see our unemployment statistics going down dramatically. That can only be because we are supporting people into work. We are actually working with people\u2019s strengths rather than focusing on their weaknesses, which the Opposition members are very much into. In the past, through the 1980s and 1990s, we saw very much a blame mentality; if someone was not in work, he or she was somehow lazy or deficient in some way. That is often not the case. It is frequently not the case. It is most often not the case. We need to work on giving people a hand up rather than a handout. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EGovernment members believe that the Social Security Amendment Bill actually enhances the opportunities that we already have in place for people. Those opportunities are seeing our people in work, thriving, providing for their families, and having the dignity of having a job. When it comes to self-esteem and to people feeling they have reached their full potential, the dignity that comes from their having a job where they are contributing, where they feel they are valued, and that is not tokenism cannot be measured. Of course, it also economically is more beneficial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that there are many times when it is not appropriate for people to be in the workforce. It may be that because\u2014as I said before\u2014they have an impairment or an illness, be it a physical disability or a mental illness, it is not appropriate or in their interests for them to be at work at that time. I acknowledge the submitters who came to the select committee and spoke very openly about such situations to us. I also want to acknowledge single parents\u2014especially women\u2014who contribute much to this society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u002230f4f407077b4a72b69d3433ecaa4d15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230f4f407077b4a72b69d3433ecaa4d15\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am proposing to amend clause 23, which will insert purpose and principles sections into the Social Security Act, by way of Supplementary Order Paper 113 that is on the Table in my name. The Green Party fully supports legislation having purpose and principles sections to aid in its interpretation. In that context, given the plethora of amendments that this Parliament has made over the years since the 1964 Act was passed, I find it strange that only now are we considering inserting purpose and principles sections into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHowever, many of the submissions to the Social Services Committee on this bill were highly critical of the particular purpose and principles sections that the bill proposes. I agree with most of the criticisms raised by those submitters. The first problem is that the purpose and principles sections proposed in this bill advocate a \u201Cwork first\u201D approach to welfare. There is no statement in the purpose and principles sections of any significant role for the welfare system that does not have an underlying focus on paid work. Work is seen as the ultimate goal, no matter what the conditions or the pay are. No recognition is given to the value of the unpaid work that beneficiaries undertake in caring for children, for the elderly, or for people with impairments, or to the valuable voluntary contribution many beneficiaries make to their communities. These purpose and principles sections treat people as nothing more than economic units, thereby reinforcing the attitude that people on the benefit system are somehow less worthy of dignity and respect than anyone else, and that they are not fully realised and recognised members of our community unless they are part of the paid workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe other substantial criticism raised by submitters is that the purpose and principles sections contained in this bill provide for an interpretation of the Act that promotes rigidity and parsimony. They provide for an Act that is regulated, inflexible, and mean-spirited, and designed not to help eliminate poverty\u2014which is what the Green Party believes should be the objective of the social security system\u2014but to alleviate hardship, and to do so only to the extent provided for by the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe Treaty of Waitangi is our country\u2019s fundamental constitutional document, and any legislation concerned with the welfare of this country\u2019s citizens, be they tangata whenua or tauiwi, should be based upon it. My amendment also recognises this. The two royal commissions on social security provided the basis for a valuable vision for our society\u2014one in which all people could participate and feel part of their local community, promote and maintain the well-being of their families, and be actively involved in meeting their potential and creating fulfilling lives for themselves and their families. My amendment also proposes to incorporate the vision of those two royal commissions into these purpose and principles sections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EOur children are our taonga and our future, and that vision is already acknowledged in the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act 1989 principle that their interests should be paramount. I am also proposing that this principle should be a principle of the Social Security Act. It is no more acceptable for children to grow up in poverty and to be denied a healthy upbringing than it is for them to be beaten or sexually abused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI am also proposing to add a principle expounding the paramount nature of the provision of full and correct entitlements. That is already, supposedly, the policy of the Ministry of Social Development, but the anecdotal evidence I hear on a weekly and almost daily basis indicates that it is a policy that is often not followed. I hope that to insert a principle around that, as part of this legislation, will go some way towards rectifying that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EFinally, I am proposing to amend the principles to provide that although seeking suitable and sustainable employment should be a priority activity for people who are unemployed, the priority activities for people receiving financial assistance for reasons other than unemployment should be determined in consultation with them, and in accordance with their individual circumstances. This reflects the reality that the personal and family circumstances of many people means that paid work is simply not the most important activity for them to be undertaking at that particular time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdd00b17bcb948f5a8a69ac4e85f742f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdd00b17bcb948f5a8a69ac4e85f742f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take just a brief call to discuss three matters. The first of them is in response to the previous speaker, and I say to her that I have absolutely no doubt that the information she hears anecdotally about policies not being followed is passed to her in the best of faith. I have absolutely no doubt of her integrity and commitment, from her historical commitment to people who are less advantaged in this sector of our New Zealand community, but I say to her that I, the Government, and those who work in a very efficient\u2014I have found\u2014Ministry of Social Development are unable to help individuals who have issues unless they can be identified. So I make an appeal to that member that if she has particular instances where she believes that the policy I am articulating, and the policy that is clearly articulated by the ministry, is not being followed, then I think she has a responsibility to pass that to me or to appropriate people in the ministry, so that those issues can be corrected. I repeat my appeal to her to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe second issue I want to raise is in relation to the comments of Ms Collins about so-called research that, as such, was presented to the Social Services Committee by Mr Paul Blair from Rotorua. It is true that Mr Blair\u2019s research\u2014oh, sorry, Mr Blair\u2019s work is probably a better description\u2014was commissioned by the Families Commission. It is not true to suggest that the Families Commission had completed a full peer review of the work, or indeed had authorised its release. In fact, that work has not subsequently been released because the Families Commission found it\u2014shall I say, charitably\u2014\u201Cseriously wanting\u201D. The fact of the matter is that that work covered a sample of, we believe, fewer than 15 people. Given that the cohort we are talking about, sole parents receiving a benefit, is around 90,000\u2014it has reduced, but it is still too many, I know, but these are people who need that support\u2014then 15 out of 90,000 is not what one, even in National Party circles, would describe as a very robust or credible basis for any research. I guess I am therefore not surprised to hear Ms Collins basing her specious arguments on that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe most important thing I want to say to the Committee is that for me the important thing about this legislation is what it means in reality for New Zealanders. I cannot better characterise that than by using the words of Leanne Keep. Leanne is a young woman who lives in Christchurch. She is a beneficiary of this policy, actually\u2014the policy that the National Party is continuing to object to, and that the Green Party is continuing to oppose. I would like to tell the Committee her story. Leanne\u2019s situation is very different now from the one in which she found herself last year. Leanne has authorised me to use her name and circumstances to talk about the effects of the changes that are now operating on a voluntary basis. She first visited a case manager about a year ago, seeking help. She was struggling with a small child\u2014she had a 3-year-old with health and behavioural issues\u2014and she was referred, by her case manager, for advice and support on parenting skills. As she put that advice into action, she has been able to begin planning for her and her child\u2019s future. The first of those steps was a course at the Next Step Centre for Women in communications skills, goal setting and self-esteem, job search, and computer skills. I quote Leanne: \u201CWhen I was struggling I felt supported by Work and Income. I am grateful for the help I have received to study, to have my son in childcare, to help with disability costs, and to have a referral for parenting support. All of this has contributed to me being able to work.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EWith her support systems in place Leanne was able to take the next step into full-time employment. Now she works full-time at a local primary school. Leanne has a good reason for celebrating her success in finding a job that interests her, as well for providing a better lifestyle for herself and her son. Leanne, of course, also gets substantial support from the Working for Families package. She cancelled her domestic purposes benefit from 23 April this year. She is working full-time at the Allenvale Special School and PreSchool. She gets per week from Working for Families $372 worth of support\u2014$82 of that is the family tax credit, $60 is the in-work credit, she gets a $75 accommodation supplement, and she gets $155 of childcare assistance. That gives a total of $372 a week. Starting a full-time job, therefore, has meant that Leanne is better off by $127 a week. That is what this legislation is about, and that is what National is opposing. This legislation is about supporting real New Zealanders with real issues, to go back into the workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u002236debce5a22d4973a7df3d4c1e64706a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236debce5a22d4973a7df3d4c1e64706a\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take a brief call on Part 2 of the Social Security Amendment Bill, and I particularly want to address the concerns that the Green member Sue Bradford raised, because I am on the Social Services Committee, obviously, and heard the submissions and the concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI also met with several groups of concerned people in my office privately and listened very closely to their concerns. I agreed with them that if the work focus, which is now being built into the principles of this Act, was such that it meant that everybody was assumed to be able to work, then I would be unhappy with that. But I have checked and rechecked very, very carefully what is written, and I do not believe that the work focus being introduced into the principles of the Act in any way disadvantages people for whom work is not a reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe bill says very clearly in clause 23 that \u201Cpeople for whom work may not currently be an appropriate outcome should be assisted to plan for work in the future and develop employment-focus skills:\u201D. This is talking about people like mums and dads on the domestic purposes benefit. This is about people who are currently committed to parenting their children but who see this as a season in their lives at a time when they require some support, and who also see that in the middle of this season they are well able to start focusing on their futures and what employment may be round the corner for them. No one is saying that they must drop their kids immediately into day care and take any job that comes along; that is not what the principles state, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EAnother thing that is stated in the principles is the acknowledgment that there are \u201Cpeople for whom work is not appropriate\u201D and who \u201Cshould be supported in accordance with this Act.\u201D Therefore, the work focus is a new provision that is layered into the legislation and focused on people who are already able to take up work, should they be willing. Because of the type of benefit that these people are entitled to, they are required to be willing and ready to take advantage of all the opportunities that Work and Income may put their way in order for them to become further work-ready, to hone their skills towards achieving specific employment opportunities, and to take advantage of all additional help that may come along.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future welcomes the work focus being put into the principles. I think it is something that has been missing from this Act for a long, long time, and that has created a lot of angst for taxpayers who worry about benefit dependency, and who worry that it is too easy to get a benefit and stay on it when one is well capable of employment. The new wording of the principles makes it really explicit that this department is focused on finding suitable work for all people who are capable of doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I think is really important to note is that the work focus creates an understanding that there are people for whom work expectations are not appropriate but who actually have some dreams and ambitions. These people could never hold down a 40-hour-a-week job. It is beyond their capability because of the challenges they live with. But they would really love the chance\u2014I have met a number of these people, and they would just love the chance\u2014to find some productive areas of employment that may take them an hour or two a week, and for which there is some remuneration. I accept that where these people would like some employment, even if it is on a limited basis, Work and Income should try to facilitate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EA lot of people, particularly those on disability benefits, really would like to participate in the workforce at a level that is suited to the challenges they live with. A work focus requires the department, rather than disregarding them because of the small amount of work they are capable of doing, to actually take them seriously and look for opportunities. One of the things I have experienced with people in this category is that often they start out with a couple of hours\u2019 work, they kind of get their heads around it, they organise their life around it, and over time they surprise themselves that they can take on a few more hours\u2014not because anyone is pressuring them or putting their benefit under threat, but because they want and enjoy the contact and the reward that employment offers to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI think that the member proposing the amendment, Sue Bradford, is well-intentioned in this regard, but that she has really misunderstood the fact that there is nothing oppressive in the new wording in the principles of the Act. The wording really just makes sure that work focus is available to all those who are able to work under that focus and who want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00227b9ada6da9224e3890927bd3c8aeb67a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b9ada6da9224e3890927bd3c8aeb67a\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on Part 2 of the Social Security Amendment Bill. Like my colleague Judith Collins, I too would like to find something nice to say about this bill. Indeed, if I look at the purpose, I think there are some sensible and supportive things to be said about the purpose \u201Cto help people to support themselves and their dependants while not in paid employment;\u201D. Surely, that is very much common sense. We like common sense. Unfortunately the Labour Government tends to depart from common sense very rapidly and far too often. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EAnother purpose is \u201Cto help people to find or retain paid employment;\u201D, which we agree with entirely. Another is \u201Cto help people for whom work may not currently be appropriate because of sickness, injury, disability, or caring responsibilities, to support themselves and their dependants:\u201D. That is where we depart from Sue Bradford, who said, I think, that work is seen as the ultimate goal no matter what the circumstances of the individual are. Well, that is not the case in that purpose, in section 1A(a), in clause 23. It is explicit that those for whom work may not currently be appropriate because of sickness are indeed catered for, and I think that is right and proper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI did notice, though, that Sue said it would be appropriate to make reference to our children being our taonga and our future. I must say that all too often we do forget that the implications of this sort of legislation absolutely fall heavily on our children. I think we have groups in this country, such as the Every Child Counts group, who would very much like to see child-impact reporting in this sort of legislation. It is absent from the bill; the Labour Government has not taken any notice of it. I agree with Sue that this is something that should have been thought of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI note that Mr Benson-Pope cited the paper from Paul Blair from Rotorua. In fact, he belittled the figures from Paul Blair in Rotorua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258ec8618498c4ed68ef0ae36ef48a5f2\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278ec6db331e542a2b74140ae1da42601\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: He says it is rubbish, in fact. I just wonder why he says it is rubbish. Is it because Paul Blair actually has the temerity to criticise the Labour Government? I think that might be the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EPaul Blair states: \u201CThe first set of key findings of this research related to the nature of work-life balance for the sole parent DPB family. The participants in this study experienced a work-life imbalance due to the particular exigencies of sole parenting, most notably lack of support and an inadequate income. The nature of the imbalance was not due to insufficient paid employment,\u201D\u2014which is quite interesting; it was not due to insufficient paid employment\u2014\u201Cas the dominant discourse around the needs of sole parent beneficiary families would suppose, but rather to the simple fact that the parent had sole responsibility for meeting all of the needs of his/her children. It was found that the sole parent faced several challenges, including stigmatisation from Work and Income \u2026\u201D\u2014from Work and Income, after 7 years of a Labour Government. I repeat that: \u201CIt was found that the sole parent faced several challenges, including stigmatisation from Work and Income and society in general\u2026\u201D. So why is Mr Benson-Pope smiling away there? His Government has been trying to do something about this for years and it has dismally failed. That is why he is so critical of Mr Blair from Rotorua, and his submission, which was given in good faith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EMr Blair\u2019s paper goes on to state: \u201COverall, the participants wanted recognition and support for the work of sole parenting and felt that any consideration of work-life balance must prioritise their children\u2019s needs.\u201D It goes on to state: \u201CThe second set of key findings related to the sole parent DPB recipient\u2019s relationship with their financial provider, MSD\u2019s Work and Income service,\u201D\u2014again, this is a criticism of Mr Benson-Pope\u2019s department, which has miserably failed\u2014\u201Cand how the statutory PDEP process\u201D\u2014that is, the personal development employment process\u2014\u201Chelped or hindered striking the \u2018right\u2019 work-life balance.\u201D I think Mr Blair has very legitimate reason for criticism here in that the infamous plan is just useless. It is ignored by this Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u00229d2b44c3695049ab8561346d3fd07de6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d2b44c3695049ab8561346d3fd07de6\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The reason this Government will be returned to the Treasury benches after the next election is contained in the bill before the Committee that we are addressing right now. The reason the National Party will be returned to the Opposition benches in a much depleted state is because of the bill we are talking about right now. What does the bill tell us? It tells us that this Government is committed to ensuring that all people who are on a benefit get the right services right from the start. Who can argue with that? There is not a voice from the National Party. Beneficiaries will get the right services right from the start. One cannot complain about that, can one? That is what Part 2 of this bill delivers, and that is why this good Government will return to the Treasury benches after the next election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EWorking New Zealand, which this bill is really about, is a substantial reform package that will stand the test of time for future generations, and it should be read along with the Working for Families package, which is the first part of this dramatic policy of putting people back into a working environment. For once, our beneficiaries will be assessed because of who they are and their potential, rather than by the type of benefit they receive. As soon as that happens, every speech made by Judith Collins will no longer have any substance at all, because she has repetitively gone on about sickness benefits and invalids benefits, and she has classified people by their ailments rather than by their potential. What the National Party has failed to grasp is that this is a bill that recognises potential. This is a bill that says to people: \u201CWe will assist you to get the work that you\u2019re capable of doing.\u201D And those in the rare circumstance of being totally unable to work will be given assistance to make them feel, and become, valid members of the community, albeit not in the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EMr Clarkson should listen to this because his companies will be direct beneficiaries of this bill. He knows, as I know, that he would have many more workers if they were encouraged back to the workforce, which this bill does. His private business interests would profit from that, and he must know that. He should get up and explain that, and explain why he will be crossing the floor to support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EIn Napier there is a teen parent centre. If one chooses to visit the teen parent centre none of the teenage parents there\u2014the young women who gave birth at a relatively early age\u2014say they want to go ahead and study to become doctors of philosophy, or learn about Greek literature or Greek history. Each one of them says that they are delighted for the chance to have another go at education so that they can enter the workforce. Their sole aim of returning to the teen parent centre is to get the training to return to the workforce, and that is what this delivers. Who can argue with that? There is not a murmur or a voice from the Opposition, because this bill delivers that very thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI am fortunate enough to be married to the lovely Mrs Fairbrother, who has a very busy family law practice. She has noticed already among her clients the change in expression and the change in attitude to life of those people who are benefiting from Working for Families. She knows very well that when this bill becomes law and people are judged on their potential, not on their benefit label, the people who attend her family law practice will do so with an attitude of hope and a belief that they have a valid place in society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EIt is against that background that we should read the principles in clause 23 of Part 2. Clause 23 brings in new section 1B, \u201CPrinciples\u201D. Paragraph (a) states: \u201Cwork in paid employment offers the best opportunity for people to achieve social and economic well-being:\u201D. Who can argue with that? Dr Hutchison could not argue with that. The National Party does not argue with that. There is stunning silence on that one, because everybody in this Chamber understands that to be valued one needs some work that reflects one\u2019s ability and one\u2019s skills. People who had been out of the workforce because of the previous economically ruinous policies of the National Government during the 1990s when they had no hope of getting employment, and who were then categorised because they were in receipt of a State benefit, were permanently on the heap of disappointment. If people are now encouraged back into work, then the principle of paid employment as being the best opportunity for people to achieve social and economic well-being will be seen as a fundamental tapping into the vein of hope and prosperity to which this country is heading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis is a very good bill, for those very reasons. It is a good bill because the philosophy of the bill is one of encouragement, hope, and support. The philosophy of the bill is not the philosophy of the National Party of damning people by labels and sticking them away so they cannot be seen, and not talking about them again except to be critical of those fellow human beings. Anybody who falls upon hard times will be delighted that the Social Security Amendment Bill went through this House this year. They will be delighted because when they approach the Work and Income office or the Ministry of Social Development they will immediately receive assistance. No longer will there be a bureaucratic stand-down while the paperwork is done, because as soon as a person who needs assistance fronts up to the counter he or she will be directed into the appropriate avenue to take on successful employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EWe can offer that because the economic boom times that this Labour Government has brought about over the last 6 or 7 years mean that there is work for everybody out there. What we really need now is to have everybody working, so that in a positive environment the benefit system is now there as a fall-back provision and as a step-up to employment. There is work there even for those who are not keen to get it, and those who are not keen to get it will be identified by the very good staff in the department. They will be given assistance to work through the expectation bred into them in the 1990s by the National Government, which was that we had to have a permanent pool of unemployed, and they will come to realise that that is one of the mean, terrible myths of the neo-liberals who are sitting opposite and listening spellbound to this dissertation on the future well-being of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003ESo I commend the bill to the Committee, and I am delighted that the National Party has not come up with one serious riposte or response to the many aspects of the bill. I take, for example, Dr Hutchison\u2019s speech of just a few minutes ago. He was long on rhetoric but gave no analysis whatsoever. He accepted that the principles clause was a sound ideal. He accepted that. He then made some vague criticism that the bill fell short of something, without giving any analysis whatsoever\u2014and this is a man who has had the benefit of a high degree of sophisticated analytical training in his academic life. This is a man whom we expect should be easily employable if he went to a Work and Income office, because he would get the assistance to refine those skills of analysis and to refine the ability to apply his mind to the task in hand, and, hopefully, he would be ushered once again into gainful employment after his last 9 years of resting on his previous academic laurels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003ESo I commend this bill to the Committee. It is a bill of hope, opportunity, and aspiration, and it is a statement to our fellow New Zealanders that we care for them, that we want to work with them, and that there is a place for them in our society. This bill is one of the reasons why we are becoming a knowledge-based economy, and why we are punching above our weight on the world economic stage. I say to members opposite that they should wait until Thursday afternoon, which is when they will get their comeuppance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u00223f89666c742142e185c90773f378e087\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f89666c742142e185c90773f378e087\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chairperson, for this second opportunity to speak in this part of the debate, as I have a further Supplementary Order Paper\u2014Supplementary Order Paper 113\u2014in my name that deals with the section that relates to pre-benefit activity requirements for applicants for the unemployment benefit. The Green Party has no difficulty with unemployment benefit applicants being required to undertake certain activities while they are waiting for their benefit. The combination of a stand-down and delayed entitlements due to holiday pay and similar payments that may have been received often means that it will be several weeks before an unemployment beneficiary becomes entitled to payment of his or her benefit. I agree that it is incongruous that people should be expected to do nothing during that period, when they are expected to take reasonable steps to obtain suitable employment once the benefit comes on stream. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe difficulty with clause 36 as it currently reads is that it is an administrative shambles that is likely to result in instances of quite unnecessary hardship. It provides that a requirement by the Ministry of Social Development that an unemployed beneficiary undertake a pre-benefit activity may be given orally or in writing. That has the potential to cause misunderstandings regarding the precise nature of the activity required of the applicant. That in turn can result in benefit applications being inappropriately declined, or their investigation and eventual granting being inappropriately deferred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe substituted subsection (3) of section 96A of the principal Act proposed by my Supplementary Order Paper provides that a requirement for an unemployed benefit applicant to undertake a pre-benefit activity must be given in writing, and is a decision subject to review and appeal rights under sections 10A and 12J of the principal Act. Beneficiaries deserve to be advised of their obligations in a written form, so that if they do not understand them they can take them to someone who does and have them explained to them. We had a number of submissions on that matter. Beneficiaries also deserve to have the right to challenge obligations placed on them that they may consider to be inappropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI am also very concerned about the implications of the new subsection (5) of section 96A of the principal Act proposed in clause 36 of this bill. Under that subsection, the Ministry of Social Development will have no obligation to investigate a claim for an unemployment benefit until the pre-benefit activity has been completed. In some circumstances, eligibility for the benefit will occur before the pre-benefit activity is finished. The new subsection (5) will inevitably cause unnecessary administrative delays in the granting of a benefit, which may well cause consequent hardship. Although the benefit will eventually be backdated, that is no comfort to a beneficiary who has been evicted from his or her accommodation in the interim solely because of the delay inherent in section 96A(5), or to one who incurs other financial difficulties. We are talking here about people who often have nothing at all, or less than nothing. I am proposing to omit subsection (5), thereby ensuring that claims for the unemployment benefit, like claims for other benefits, are investigated as expeditiously as is practicable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe new subsections (6) to (8) of section 96A of the principal Act relate to benefit applications lapsing in the event of pre-benefit activities not being completed. Those subsections become redundant if the ministry is required to investigate unemployment benefit applications as promptly as practicable, without deferring investigation until a pre-benefit activity has been completed. The ministry will still have the proposed power under new section 96A(10) to refuse to grant an unemployment benefit, or to terminate one that has already been granted, in the event of a pre-benefit activity not having been completed satisfactorily. That, I think, is sufficient to adequately sanction beneficiaries who do not meet their statutory obligations. I call on parties in the Committee who have understood what I have just said to support the amendments in my Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EFinally, I will take just a moment to respond to the Minister\u2019s response to my earlier comments about people not receiving their full and correct entitlements. The reason I do not take every case I hear about off to the Minister is that those are mainly cases that have already been dealt with in my own out-of-Parliament office in Auckland, by other MPs\u2019 out-of-Parliament offices, or by information provided from beneficiary advocacy groups. They deal with those kinds of cases every day. In fact, beneficiary advocacy groups would go out of existence if they were not dealing on a daily and weekly basis with people who do not receive their full and correct entitlements. I think the Minister and the department would be the first to acknowledge that that happens every day. I certainly respect the department\u2019s efforts to do better\u2014and it is doing better. But it is just simply a fact of life, as I think every MP in this Committee knows, that many people are still not getting what they are entitled to receive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd135642f5ae499d902556d98e6fb752\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd135642f5ae499d902556d98e6fb752\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a very short call on behalf of New Zealand First. We welcome new sections 1A and 1B in clause 23 of the Social Security Amendment Bill. We believe that the purpose of the bill and its principles should be clearly set out. We believe that New Zealanders as a whole would find it very difficult to argue with this part. We totally approve of the work focus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EPeople are far better off when they work, even if it is only for a few hours each week. My son goes to school. He also has a part-time job for a few hours a week pushing trolleys at the local supermarket. The change in that boy has been quite phenomenal. We believe that it is absolutely essential to interact with people in the workplace. The growth in people\u2019s self-esteem from being part of a team is absolutely phenomenal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe also want to see the number of people on the sickness benefit and the invalids benefit decrease. We are pleased to support any efforts to assist this group to work if they possibly can. We acknowledge too that there are times when people, for whatever reasons, just cannot participate in the workforce. The bill signals the commitment the Government has to work with people to assist them in moving into work that is appropriate for them. We cannot argue with that. We believe that any Government should have this focus. It is something we would criticise any Government for not having. All of the research shows that it is imperative for people to get into work if it is appropriate. Benefits are not the best lifestyle for long-term living. We want people to have more money than they can get on a benefit and to get all the other benefits they do not have when they are on a handout. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe believe that the hardest thing when one is on a benefit is to take the first step and determine what area one wants to work in. If people have been out of work for a long time, that gets harder and harder. So we believe that the personal development and employment plans are essential to help this come about. What is the point, though, in having a plan, or in being told that one has a plan, if one is not a part of it? We believe that people should have some time to reflect on their plans so that they can get behind them and push them. Most people have dreams and ambitions that they want to fulfil, and those dreams and ambitions are far greater than being on a benefit. We really support the work focus that the Government is showing in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u002221f294a509034014b17e585018097a71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221f294a509034014b17e585018097a71\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the Committee stage to Part 2 of the Social Security Amendment Bill. Parts of the bill were showing promise that it was moving towards a \u201Cwork first\u201D mentality. Let me highlight a part of the bill that makes interesting reading\u2014the sanctions part. It is clear that when people fail to meet requirements without good reason a sanction will be imposed. However, \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D is exempt from the sanction. For those who do not understand what \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D means, let me explain. The definition in clause 4 states: \u201Cactivity in the community means an activity associated with a community project under the supervision of a sponsor who is contracted by the chief executive to provide the activity\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe National Party is disappointed with subsequent changes to the bill that remove the requirement for a person to undertake \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D from sanction provisions. In our opinion these changes will lessen the ability of the bill to remove barriers to employment. We believe that the requirement on a person in his or her personal development and employment plan should have to be fulfilled regardless of the source of that activity. The consequence of not meeting the requirement of his or her personal development and employment plan provisions in regard to undertaking \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D cannot be sanctioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe National Party is pleased that beneficiaries will be expected to engage in activities such as training to prepare them for work, but we are disappointed that the opportunity has not been taken to enable part-time, non-commercial work to gain work experience. We are concerned that some beneficiaries who engage in a number of training courses without work experience will find employment opportunities closed to them. We believe that people who work in the community have a lot to offer the community they work in. We believe they have valuable skills, good work ethics, and the ability to offer good work experience. In not recognising this workforce, which can contribute to the training and transfer of skills, we are not doing that workforce any justice. We are not even recognising them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EMany of the people who work in the community have come from professional backgrounds\u2014backgrounds of relevance to the sector that they are working in. They are highly skilled, and they bring a lot of skills that they transfer quite easily. They are invaluable to the organisation that they work in, and they can easily pass on these things to others. We are talking about caregivers, administration clerks, event organisers, people with information technology skills, people with good communication skills, social workers\u2014a huge number of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThis legislation is closing a door to employment opportunities. In fact, the National Party felt so strongly about this that it submitted a minority view, which I will share with members. It was not only our view; three other parties on the Social Services Committee also attached minority reports based on \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D. \u201CWhile generally agreeing with the stated purpose and aims of the bill, the National and ACT parties are disappointed with subsequent changes to the bill that remove the requirement for a person to undertake \u2018activity in the community\u2019 from sanction provisions. In our opinion, these changes will lessen the ability of the bill to remove barriers to employment. We believe that the requirements of a person in their personal development and employment plan should have to be fulfilled regardless of the source of that activity. The consequence of not meeting the requirements of his or her personal development and employment plan provisions in regard to undertaking \u2018activity in the community\u2019 could be sanctioned. The National and ACT parties are pleased that beneficiaries will be expected to engage in activities such as training to prepare them for work but are disappointed that the opportunity has not been taken to enable part-time non-commercial work to gain work experience. We are concerned that some beneficiaries might engage in a number of training courses but without work experience, will find employment opportunity closed to them.\u201D Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u00226ce15415d5924d4ba2c5706b9f50e7e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ce15415d5924d4ba2c5706b9f50e7e3\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224028db27db3d4608b43ad7736a471820\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000681\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 113 in the name of Sue Bradford to clause 23 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e3b1f472349e4959837112ea01388449\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000682\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 114 in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope to insert new clause 33A be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000683\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000684\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 113 in the name of Sue Bradford to section 96A(3) in clause 36, to omit and substitute the subsection, be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000685\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000686\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 113 in the name of Sue Bradford to section 96A(5) to (8) in clause 36, to omit the subsections, be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000687\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to. \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000688\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 113 in the name of Sue Bradford to section 96A(11) in clause 36, to omit and substitute the subsection, be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224cffeca630674ebba9cb8421558b8a18\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e7738886441741a78d124200ae4528b9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000689\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000690\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported progress on the Social Security Amendment Bill, no progress on the Arbitration Amendment Bill, no progress on the Succession (Homicide) Bill, and no progress on the Wills Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000691\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070515c18195dc45e94798bb2150eb75ec0261000692\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.59 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"