"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b80ba153d294447691fd16595323e463\u0022\u003EThursday, 21 June 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bece3de57864491aac9ea05f445b114b\u0022\u003EThursday, 21 June 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9c689b717e84761a629d7721aef0165\u0022\u003E Business Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221cf9ff9b3f234c73978532f9115ed0b1\u0022\u003E Business Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002250eacc658c8f4ec788f21d3945e19251\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250eacc658c8f4ec788f21d3945e19251\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next Tuesday, the first item of business will be the Appropriation (2006/07 Supplementary Estimates) Bill, which is along with the Imprest Supply Bill, and is a 3-hour debate. Wednesday, of course, is a members\u2019 day. The priority for Government business for the remainder of the week will be the remaining stages of the Criminal Justice Reform Bill and the Te Roroa Claims Settlement Bill. A message has gone to all parties today seeking their support for leave to take all remaining stages of the Evidence Amendment Bill on Thursday during normal sitting time, subject, of course, to a favourable report from the select committee on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002294de3a6fd5d74768892d32836c6448ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294de3a6fd5d74768892d32836c6448ce\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Can the Leader of the House confirm that the president of the Labour Party indicated to a conference last week on electoral accountability that there would be an electoral spending bill in the House this week? Are we to assume that the progress on completing such a bill is now stalled due to numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3e8487b70ea4334b77bc27cecd867ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3e8487b70ea4334b77bc27cecd867ea\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E The president of the Labour Party must have been referring to some deep, dark secret that I am not aware of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022570e337633094c2f9f9cf7069f610bf4\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002243eae8a3323748b8af6a3857b4d125af\u0022\u003ESupplementary Questions\u2014Principles\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00229310f0c9255247788522b09f3460e2ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229310f0c9255247788522b09f3460e2ce\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I promised yesterday to tell the House of the principles followed by the Chair in allowing supplementary questions. The calling of members to ask supplementary questions is a matter that the Standing Orders leave entirely to the discretion of the Speaker\u2014see Standing Order 378(1). Members, to receive the call, must stand and call to the Speaker\u2014see Speaker\u2019s Ruling 24/5. But rising and calling to the Speaker is not a race. The Speaker calls whomever the Speaker determines that it is appropriate to call, regardless of who rises first. In allocating supplementary questions, the Speaker, after giving the first supplementary question to the member who asked the primary question, generally prefers members in order of size of party. When all parties that wish to do so have asked a question, parties can come for a second round of questions, and so on, again generally in order of size of party. This was the practice that I followed yesterday, and the one that I will follow in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022640410adbe064308a3636f68c1ab61dd\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002215c1a30952464f00b9eefd4623808a4c\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b131ef2b5d4a47a7bdc670859764877c\u0022\u003ETaxation\u2014Property Investment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022435d1dac199f43a1bd603d5a69a62e57\u0022\u003E1. Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Is it Government policy to introduce the ring-fencing of losses on investment property?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022918b38341206477f91789190a4f617ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022918b38341206477f91789190a4f617ee\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223707d168fb5347f0873d5b6c23d34a25\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he suggest ring-fencing losses on investment property when, on 25 July 2005, he told the Wellington Property Investors Association seminar that \u201Cour position on the taxation of property is that the status quo is quite adequate, \u2026 change does not promise significant overall benefits \u2026 In other words, any new form of property tax is off our agenda.\u201D; or is that just the sort of thing he says before an election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edb35baf245947cba2eff8a7b0e5675d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Since that time we have had 2 years of continuous increases in the heat in the property market, increasing interest rates, a high dollar, and, more important, the publication by the Reserve Bank and the Treasury of their suggestions around supplementary stabilisation instruments, including, of course, suggestions around changes of this sort. I am not afraid to discuss ideas when they enter the public arena.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c93d3ae1254e918af2811ea543855e\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government interested in options to take the heat out of the housing market?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224228429f5791456c80a6ac8212ba3314\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is concerned about the long-term impact of the high dollar on the productive sector of the economy. I agree with the Canterbury Manufacturers Association that we need to have a debate on these issues. That is why Treasury and the Reserve Bank produced their supplementary stabilisation instruments report, and why, I assume, there is a select committee inquiry. What I cannot accept is Mr English\u2019s approach of turning a blind eye to the problems of exporters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb2ee15d4a9c46feb7377fbc46ae64a6\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: What was the effect of the tax changes surrounding investment properties made in 1991 by Ruth Richardson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8e93cb3c79a4fa6ba24b98d422cfce3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: We moved from a position where net taxable income on rental property was about 80 percent of the gross income on rental property to one where over the last few years the net taxable income has averaged about 10 percent of the gross income on rental property. That suggests an interaction between the taxation regime and the ability to gear on property that is causing significant over-investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acd6aff91b524739b3b75736795c251a\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: If ring-fencing tax losses and biasing the tax system against housing is not Government policy, does the Minister intend to advocate it until it is Government policy, or does he agree with the position of a spokesman from the Prime Minister\u2019s office that that is a matter that will be dealt with by the Finance and Expenditure Committee inquiry, which increasingly seems to be where economic policy is meant to be made under Labour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edb664f0ecc64b1da0633160d8c3ff4f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I get the impression\u2014perhaps I am misled\u2014that there is a discussion going on in a range of fora at the present time around these possibilities, but I am surprised to see an Opposition spokesperson suggesting that it is wrong that a select committee should be able to discuss what policy should be for either the short or the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be43e8f4695b4d3d902518963d959566\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister see any of the proposals currently being discussed as a silver bullet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208d9f44a936b448baedeccda83de68b2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No. Unfortunately, there are no silver bullets in economic policy, but I am open to exploring options to address what is a serious issue facing this economy. All I have heard from Mr English is that he thinks interest rates should have been raised higher earlier and Government spending should be slashed. He is not prepared to engage in any intelligent discussion of other options, even those proposed by Treasury and the Reserve Bank.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238b6769a68704a5db7fca78afccf4455\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister\u2019s investigation of supplementary measures look at individual measures such as ring-fencing and isolation, or will he explore the effect of a holistic package that could combine ring-fencing with a capital gains tax on all investments except the family home, and more Government investment in low-cost rental housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228079ffa51d144257b95d14666a240837\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is fair to say that, if one was looking at a capital gains tax, which I am certainly not, it would apply to all asset classes. I think the arguments in favour of such a tax, which probably 20 years ago were quite strong, become much, much less strong in the intervening period of time, for a whole host of reasons. So I think that that is actually not a very worthwhile avenue to explore, not least because it comes, in effect, at the end of a process, rather than trying to address the over-investment at the start of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aa97f419c1248cd802571a97febe50f\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Now that the Minister sees his main political role to be criticising Opposition propositions to reduce taxes, will he also be criticising the statements made by the Associate Minister of Finance Trevor Mallard, who announced in the Melbourne Age today that Labour will be cutting personal taxes in the next election, probably by increasing thresholds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f985f513e2f84aada4f201c61adf58cf\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: On the second point, I have already announced that it is likely we will be making announcements\u2014I did so before the Budget\u2014around changes to personal tax rates. Mr Mallard expressed a preference for one option. There are many, many options around how one can address the issue of personal taxation. On the former matter, it is a rare event when the Opposition expresses a clear view on policy. It will have to get used to being kicked around that for the remainder of this term of Parliament, as it comes up with the remaining three ideas between now and the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0e22d9849c04507a702ceee865cdbc2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Minister of Finance not considered four silver bullets over the last 20 years\u2014or now, so belatedly\u2014such as: a national savings strategy, a wise immigration policy, an export-sympathetic series of policies that have been adopted by other First World countries, and, last of all, a respectable investment regime safeguarding investors in this country, thereby removing our obsession with housing over these last 20 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9fe5e91b74b4db78da631670a879d8f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is certainly correct that in the last few weeks we have moved significantly on the savings regime, with bold moves that I think people are beginning to really understand how significant they are and how much they will benefit a very wide range of the public. We made announcements this week around the regulation of non-banking financial providers. We are looking at further ways to underpin exporting. I think what underlines a number of these moves is that there is no such thing as the Holy Grail of a perfectly level playing field. A perfectly level playing field in taxation often results in quite different outcomes in different parts of the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b7b952969b54e70a9c5b706f941da39\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Which Minister of Finance should we listen to: the actual Minister of Finance, who has now floated two disastrous proposals to try to cool down the housing market, being the interest rate levy and the ring-fencing of losses on investment, or the Associate Minister of Finance, who is announcing policy that the Labour caucus actually supports and that everyone believes will happen in the next Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc01d5174e6547e6a4b712fcbd22ed82\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I advise the member always to listen to the once and future Minister of Finance in that regard, and the member is talking to him at this precise moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a204459b6e440b7afd32fe92648cedf\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that Labour Prime Minister Helen Clark would keep Dr Cullen in the finance portfolio, when Trevor Mallard has now taken over next year\u2019s Budget, Winston Peters is running the savings policy, a select committee of Parliament is running monetary policy, and, according to Morning Report this morning, Russel Norman is doing his media?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022402d0605dab244c9a491174339a15777\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I would never be reduced to the last state of affairs; I am sure of that particular matter. I am actually running the process for next year\u2019s Budget. What the member might care to explain on such a matter is why his leader went to Sydney and told the trans-Tasman leadership forum he was totally in favour of the Australian relationship and the single economic market, and Bill English told the mood of the boardroom in Auckland he did not care much about the Australian relationship and he disagrees with Mr Key on so many issues we are running out of paper to write them down on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226ea59f08c024f47b01517ba87ad9358\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that in fact he has already moved into Opposition, because he spends most of his time as Minister of Finance criticising the policies of the Opposition at the same time as miscueing and failing to execute all his own proposals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc4dc908c0164513a307e571114b06b0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: In an average 14-hour day I probably devote about 5 minutes to the Opposition. I find it difficult sometimes to stretch it out that far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022030742200c8a49128f540bb13b1b1b3a\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: With regard to stabilising an overheated market, who does he think he is accountable to as Minister of Finance: 200,000 property investors, or 3.9 million New Zealanders who need an affordable roof over their heads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222abb34bc028e4a8d91bb25f2d0a97dae\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: In the first instance, I am accountable to the Prime Minister. In the second instance, I am accountable to this House. In the third instance, I am accountable to New Zealand as a whole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022080c6a3274c44edba94d2c59ba3a595e\u0022\u003EPaid Parental Leave\u2014Eligibility\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b77424f7843b4298b47dd64c9364e4e6\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: Has she received any reports on changes to eligibility for paid parental leave?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00226060afe20c9140d2a74d1fc6cf84ebc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226060afe20c9140d2a74d1fc6cf84ebc0\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I have. Last year the Labour-led Government opened up eligibility to the paid parental leave scheme to the self-employed. A recent evaluation of the scheme showed that with this change, the scheme is now available to nearly 90 percent of all women in paid work. Paid parental leave is widely embraced by New Zealanders, despite being consistently opposed by the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022581ef18088694442bc42521d3bfbb40a\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Has she received any other proposals for changes to eligibility?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297191ec7ec884de79e2abc266edf7120\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have received a rather confused proposal that eligibility for paid parental leave should apply only to those who are out of the home. That proposal, to give paid parental leave to those who are out of the home, actually seems to contradict the whole philosophy of paid parental leave, but nevertheless it was made by Kate Wilkinson in the House on Tuesday. I look forward to that fantastic proposal being adopted as National policy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e0e0f23275c4769a27e3b34ef083ea6\u0022\u003EEarly Childhood Education\u2014Free Hours in Kindergartens\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252cb06bb483d4db08e7e7c561f8d8b83\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Is he expecting a rise in the number of kindergartens that shift from traditional 3 and 4-hour sessions to all-day licences as a result of \u201C20 hours free\u201D, and how will he monitor the provision of \u201C20 hours free\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbdff8f1be0549c8b0991509c09f36a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbdff8f1be0549c8b0991509c09f36a9\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E A number of kindergartens have been moving from sessional to all-day licences, because they consider that this allows them to better respond to the needs of working parents. However, only a small number of kindergartens have indicated that they are changing their licences as a result of the 20 hours free policy. Indeed, most kindergartens are moving into providing the 20 free hours as sessional services. On the second question, the ministry will be actively monitoring the roll-out of free early childhood education and will investigate any complaints raised by parents, or the member. The Education Review Office will also undertake its usual 3-year cycle of reviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e21e335b737c421f823728cd080905e8\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm reports from his own officials that the monitoring of the 20 hours free policy will be primarily through complaints received from parents, but that, even then, the Ministry of Education, and I quote, \u201Cdoes not necessarily have the ability to enforce funding rules in a way that helps achieve good outcomes for parents.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246779c3e449f4213985e9dd61b62b107\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As usual, the member tries to cast things in a way that she would like them to be, rather than as they are. The Ministry of Education has made it clear that it will carry out the normal monitoring of these processes, and that the Education Review Office will do the usual 3-yearly cycle of reviews. That will include handling complaints from the member, or any other parent who may wish to raise complaints. Of course, the basis of all of this policy is to ensure that the spirit\u2014or the practice, in fact\u2014of the 20 hours free policy is carried out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e77e13cc4d4b4f2bb3a16748cb5181e8\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: How much difference will 20 free hours make to families in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f803c94b89f4c118ddaa894f34f7ea9\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: It will be a significant change. A family paying a typical fee of $4.50 an hour for 20 hours will save around $90 a week in fees. That is about $4,500 a year. Even if a family is already getting the standard childcare subsidy of $1.31, or volunteers to pay a $20 a week optional charge, it still will be more than $50 a week better off. So parents around this country are very much looking forward to the introduction of this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221107bc7c48e147379850c7936baeba41\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In the interests of public debate, can the Minister tell us what reports he has received in respect of other views on this policy, including those of political parties, and are there political parties that have no policy at all in respect of this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226238e181d0c5440fa9f2b9ff9c3f467d\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a number of reports on that matter, and I thank the member for his party\u2019s endorsement of the principle of 20 free hours. But one major party in Parliament does have a policy, and it is called scrapping the 20 hours free policy completely. So not one single parent would benefit from that policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282619f56ece84932b5dcecb2762433a5\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm Ministry of Education reports that state that in the event of overcharging there are \u201Climitations of the sanctions at their disposal\u201D; that in many situations \u201Cthe ministry would be unable to prove that a service had broken the rules about fee charging\u201D; and that the risk is \u201Cthe Ministry of Education may not be able to enforce the funding rule about fee charging.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022610d23948bc94bdea498b96312c5b8cf\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The rules are clear: the 20 free hours must be delivered free of charge to parents, but optional charges can be established. The ministry has made it clear to the member, and to many other people around the country\u2014and she smiles because she knows that it is true\u2014that the ministry will carry out its normal monitoring, and the Education Review Office will follow up with the 3-yearly cycle of reviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287be2b7d39044ee7979eb2fb952a7f5f\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying that there are rules but they cannot be enforced, that the ministry is relying on parent complaints to be the primary method of monitoring this policy, and that his own officials admit that even in the event that they get complaints, they will not be able to prove them or do anything about them so that there are good outcomes for parents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a163ecf88df54886af127806e7800a65\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As usual, the member would love for that to be the policy, because then she could kick it to death as she is trying to do now. Unfortunately for her, the policy is not that. She is saying those things; no one else is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022123683c1fff5457ebd85bf800afa48b0\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that children form attachments with the staff and the other children in a centre, and that these stable relationships are critical to the well-being of a child; if so, how does this fit with centres turning away children who will not sign up for all-day sessions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4df9f0cfcaa4627932c6e10d10176c0\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree that attachment theory is part of any stage I psychology class. I imagine that the member has taken that class, and that is why she knows about it. We look forward to young people being even more attached to their centres, because of the 20 free hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac582b392d7646f1aab0bdfaef313426\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister respond to the mother in Dannemore who was told that if she did not sign a form stating that her child would now be enrolled full-time, there would no longer be a part-time place for her child, as the 20 free hours policy had forced the centre to now offer only full days?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c46f225e4dab418db594de3f16fb2651\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, I would feel sorry for the mother that her case was being advocated by Paula Bennett, and, secondly, I would say that if there is a case to answer, as we have already said, complaints can be directed to the Ministry of Education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cba7361db7094260a5d72b803785f278\u0022\u003ESchools\u2014Local Schools Access\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255945c1c9ddd4fdfad6361eec33addab\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by the statement made by the Minister of Education in June 2005 that \u201CUnder current legislation every child is entitled to attend his or her local school.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c70ef563ac964529b19fe0f88f591e22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c70ef563ac964529b19fe0f88f591e22\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do stand by my predecessor\u2019s comment. The legislation is designed to ensure that all students can attend what is known as a \u201Creasonably convenient school\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1c58416e404434899074e329ec5056a\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, is the Minister kicking out a quarter of the bay people from their local school, Island Bay School, and could he tell the House which suburb those living in Severn Street and Moselle Street actually live in if it is not Island Bay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f2e31e8d10b42afbe9293d97ffba7ea\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised by the ministry that the decisions on that have not yet been made. I am further advised that the ministry\u2019s proposals enable the few addresses of such parents to be part of the enrolment zone as a transition until the younger siblings of current pupils have been through the school. When the legislation was debated in the House, the House decided that siblings of current pupils should not have preference over others, but this is a caring Government that does not like splitting up families, so we will work with local communities and schools to find solutions that ensure we are not splitting up siblings where that can be avoided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d076371c10c447c68f705e57eca0bc80\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: When were the school zones reintroduced for New Zealand schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244f3074bc0df415facaac5a97bc09f8c\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: That sticks in my mind well. It was when National was in Government in late 1998, when schools were in danger of being overcrowded and there was space at other \u201Creasonably convenient schools\u201D, as the saying goes. The previous National Government realised that open slather in the provision of extra buildings to accommodate roll growth at some schools, while there was spare capacity at others, was an inefficient and a wasteful use of taxpayers\u2019 money and it could not be afforded. Of course, both sides of the House have continued with that practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa1a8275f4cd465681fb5474022e7491\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister confirm that when geographical school zoning was reintroduced in November 1998 by the National Government of the time, with the support of ACT, that the only person who registered any concern with regard to that legislation at the time was Labour\u2019s education spokesperson, Trevor Mallard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed891ea2c504c1e89c25266fd83e602\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I can recall that it was National, supported by ACT, that introduced that legislation at that time. I do recall that in an appropriate way Mr Mallard did raise the usual debate about this kind of issue, to make sure it was aired as it should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bc02c49084740bf97986fee9b58768f\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Does he not agree that the Minister of Education should be a paragon of clear English, so that \u201Cfree\u201D means \u201Cfree\u201D, and \u201Clocal school\u201D means \u201Clocal school\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022288209bec5494748af138a33b1a71a06\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The term I used before is quite an important one and is, of course, set down in case law. The term \u201Creasonably convenient\u201D is one that ensures people can go to their local school. Those words were agreed to by Bill English during his time in this particular role. It is, I think, a very useful term, because it recognises that there is a network of schools, and that we should make use of those schools. In the case of Island Bay, it is worth knowing that this school has had two classrooms, and subsequently three classrooms, placed on its land to assist it. I think that the steps being taken now are to try to sensibly work out what to do, given that there are reasonably convenient schools nearby and they are all good schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ceace4831724c3a9351905fed8f8c1a\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Minister was being very misleading in that last answer. The primary question asked whether he stood by the statement made in 2005 about a local school. He has conveniently changed his wording now to say \u201Creasonably convenient\u201D school. Which one is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022234c85bbd31d4916bd6bc8e35ae52e30\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not a point of order. The Minister did actually address that in his answer. But the Minister may speak to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef0925b01269407e813b0f82de58f77b\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: It sometimes helps if people listen. I will read out the answer again. It is: \u201CYes \u2026 The legislation is designed to ensure that all students can attend what is known as\u201D\u2014I repeat\u2014\u201Ca \u2018reasonably convenient school.\u2019 \u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec5a418c010c4c9287df72b6ef351016\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the 1998 legislation put up by Wyatt Creech and supported by the ACT party, which first used the term \u201Creasonably convenient\u201D; and is there a word for that that starts with \u201Ch\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224360fa4b889c432c9392d8bd1f71eba1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That last comment is inappropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd7c3fbc1b904e0eae0daea8081bf05b\u0022\u003ENursing\u2014Public Service Code of Conduct\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba99817d68834c2eb59e48d47f820801\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What reports, if any, has he received on a speech given by chief nursing adviser Mark Jones in Nelson recently, and does he consider it to be consistent with the Public Service Code of Conduct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u002217668abbc60a450b9be9fea00d48710a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217668abbc60a450b9be9fea00d48710a\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Associate Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: Compliance with the Public Service Code of Conduct by individual public servants is, of course, an employment matter, and therefore the responsibility of the Director-General of Health as the chief executive officer of the Ministry of Health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022079400bf95094d838142d3785fb23f29\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Is it consistent with the Public Service ethos that after a left-wing diatribe about the benefits of collectivism and the immorality of profit, the chief nursing adviser, Mark Jones, should tell a large group of nurses that they were \u201Cvote maximisers\u201D, who should spend the next 6 to 8 weeks highlighting the benefits of the Government\u2019s policies; and is it his attitude that the Ministry of Health and its officials are now an extension of the Labour Party\u2019s propaganda arm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e7190c651e54bcc888225e50d10d8e9\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that the article is based on a reporter\u2019s notes of a large group discussion. I am unable to comment on the reliability of any of the assertions made. I am advised, however, that Tony Ryall spoke at the same conference and said nothing of any substance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a50bd564a5b747289e33e12fbe53c906\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister agree with Mr Jones\u2019 remarks in his speech that primary health organisations had been provided with a big chunk of public money, but some had an immoral ethic, and money flowed through to general practitioners\u2019 back pockets; and is it part of the Government\u2019s health strategy to pit nurses against doctors and use them as vote maximisers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022113d0c22e58a4fddb83c21ee7b7c2850\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware that a recent Waikato business school survey has indicated that general practitioner incomes have risen\u2014and I am not opposed to people\u2019s incomes rising. I am also advised, however, that the Labour-Progressive Government has put a significant sum of money\u2014in excess of $2 billion\u2014into the primary health care system, and by 1 July this year will have cut in half the price of going to the doctor, for all New Zealanders. I think the House would like to know whether the National Party actually supports that achievement or opposes it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022108a674748254150a3daee70c16c5677\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Is it surprising that we have a climate of continual industrial unrest in the health sector, when we have a senior public servant out there urging health workers to become politicised, and promoting the Government\u2019s political strategy of using health care workers as \u201Cvote maximisers\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ffa70aaac1f435488a1591a2e2bc49d\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that under the Public Service Code of Conduct, public servants should fulfil their lawful obligations to the Government with professionalism and integrity. My understanding is that Mr Jones is a hard-working, well-regarded member of the health sector and a dedicated public servant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243f3993e111248e299f3996513d64467\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Does this Minister these days regard Minister Hodgson as a \u201Cvote maximiser\u201D or a \u201Cvote minimiser\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226df4b0224e3d4f09a32f54ea0ef1a8e7\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: If I had a choice between Mr Hodgson and the member asking the question in this House at this moment, then it would be a no-brainer as to who I would choose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229284dadc16904e55bab8c4489f1ee34c\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister think nurses feel when the Government and its apparatchiks view them as vote\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fdcf4ec9a43462c8471e78f68a45d17\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbbf35cac6e441b89af4e948646c2e7d\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: They can laugh, but one of your highly paid public servants is doing your propaganda at nurses, at the taxpayers\u2019 expense, and is telling nurses that the Government\u2019s attitude is that nurses are \u201Cvote maximisers\u201D who will spend the next 6 to 8 months doing the Government\u2019s business; that should be stopped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a0cba2184d34583a711ce05697bfe47\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am not totally au fait with your vote, but I do not think you have any highly paid officials called apparatchiks working for you. Therefore, that member should follow the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022733161f6c7684947af7d9be1529bbf40\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I agree. The member has been in this House long enough to know not to pull the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b603eec5ef649f998fdcabd3f5dc8e9\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: In the matter of health, there are two \u201Cvote maximisers\u201D for this Government. The first is its policies and the amount of funding it has put into the health system. The second is Mr Tony Ryall, who is the biggest \u201Cvote maximiser\u201D for this Government that I could ever imagine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022800da2fe0bae459c8fa7333ec85189b1\u0022\u003ESecurities Commission\u2014Insider Trading, Tranz Rail\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ad7708b2bf349ee90749258c6b8c314\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce: Who were the \u201Cpowerful interests\u201D who attempted to stop the Securities Commission insider trading case involving David Richwhite and Sir Michael Fay, she reportedly referred to in her speech to the House on 19 June 2007?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00229532ec912662488699333d30a4b28dd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229532ec912662488699333d30a4b28dd4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Attorney-General)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister of Commerce: What the Minister actually said was: \u201CThere were interests out there who did not want the defendants pursued.\u201D The Minister was referring to those who attacked the Securities Commission for taking and continuing to pursue the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b43ce0607adb488e9e2071373077cf71\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of people involved in this case threatening those on the Securities Commission and those assisting the Securities Commission, in respect of their future contracts and employment; if so, who would those parties be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022247022d6904a4b159d1e70eb3943160d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have information in relation to that in front of me. I think that would be a very serious matter indeed, which would be worthy of further investigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022182f49cb608e4f5c93ce125e4c59cda2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister of Commerce, having seen that her officials in their first proper investigation of these two gentlemen achieved a strike rate of one out of one, had any reports prepared for the head of the Serious Fraud Office and the head of the Inland Revenue Department as to what their proper action should have been, which they did not take and therefore enable themselves to be accused of being grossly negligent of their duty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb944f03bffa43978cee027d3bedf74b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have no such information in front of me. I am not aware that any such reports were prepared. The Serious Fraud Office has close to a 90 percent success rate in its prosecutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b7ddd8d71619490f85729b3fae5715eb\u0022\u003EOffice of Treaty Settlements\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b30d7bd59874af4bb789e8dabbf6f34\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: Does he have confidence in the Office of Treaty Settlements; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca59c1ef36f247e8b00e111b4a6097cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca59c1ef36f247e8b00e111b4a6097cb\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In my experience, it has dedicated and diligent officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ac31974702645acbdcf388b3f06efe5\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the Office of Treaty Settlements official responsible for determining there were no cross-claim issues in T\u0101maki-makau-rau that the Crown needed to be cognisant of was a graduate who was less than 1 year out of university, with no training or experience in M\u0101ori land claims, and who did not consult any of the claimant groups in the area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276aad21f9e594a4daaa823fdc0fa37e2\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that the process of cross-claim consultation is still very much under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294237ebe27da424fab3c4f9f7dc403cd\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Office of Treaty Settlements tell the Waitangi Tribunal that Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua was the only Auckland iwi willing to enter into direct negotiations with the Crown, when the Office of Treaty Settlements itself had earlier refused to enter into negotiation with any of the six other claimant groups in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c60a43eac93c41869b3617d6770ffad0\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: To the best of my knowledge, as at this date there are no other mandated groups ready to enter into negotiation in that area. The member is incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022799108eb36974c329f6466794aa88c1f\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: What recent comment has the Minister heard on the Treaty settlement process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224072404108334d199af9ff1e1ab86981\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard extensive comments. Yesterday in this House Mr Finlayson talked about what he claims was the record of the National Government on Treaty settlements. The facts are that of the 21 settlements negotiated to date, National can claim only three settlements of substantial size: on fisheries, on the Waikato raupatu, and with Ng\u0101i Tahu. The rest are smaller\u2014five with a value of less than $1 million\u2014and most left substantial issues to be settled. He also ignores the settlements that National tried to rush through, and failed. The people of Whakat\u014Dhea rejected outright the deal that National tried to cook up, and agreements with Te \u0100tiawa and Rangit\u0101ne o Manawat\u016B fell apart almost as soon as they were reached. This Government has negotiated two large settlements from start to finish. [Interruption] I say to Mr Henare that he should listen. It has done most of the substantive work on three more settlements. Some of those have been very complex. This Government has also brought a further five settlements to a successful conclusion, and has brought more groups than ever before into negotiations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dcd228efccf4a00bf4285d0a58fc0ca\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Does the Minister agree with his colleague the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, who said that the recent reports of the Waitangi Tribunal into the Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua ki \u014Cr\u0101kei and Te Arawa claims may or may not affect the timeliness of those and other claims being settled; and, noting that both those claimants entered into direct negotiation with the Crown, does he agree with the Waitangi Tribunal that direct negotiations should stop; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c72bca07ce64e60bf81e05b6ab3a376\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: There are several questions there. To take the first part of the question first, I think my colleague was noting that there were a number of recommendations that the Government should give careful consideration to, and it will. I have also made the same indication. I think the notion of bringing the settlement process to a halt raises other questions of good faith, not only with those claimants with whom good-faith negotiations have proceeded but also with many others around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e69ed92dc934b2296ab8a5ab438a1f9\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. How does the Minister respond to the tribunal\u2019s findings that: \u201CDuring the implementation of the Crown\u2019s policies in Te Arawa, OTS failed to act as an honest broker in the negotiation process, OTS failed to discharge its Treaty and fiduciary duties to all M\u0101ori, and OTS did not act honourably and with the utmost good faith.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2357c17d7a4495bd64cd31d444b75b\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, the role of the Office of Treaty Settlements is not to be a broker; it is to act on behalf of the Crown as a negotiator. As I indicated, I think, in my answer to the substantive question, my experience of the officials of the Office of Treaty Settlements is that they are honourable people who act in good faith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7e5ff58096a4a14b9c37d400647c52f\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the officials or Government policy that is to blame for the negligent manner in which the Office of Treaty Settlements treats claimants, as highlighted by the Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua o \u014Cr\u0101kei report and the Te Arawa report, and specifically, what will happen to officials responsible for the failure to interact with cross-claimants as promised, for the failure to provide accurate information about their status in negotiations, for the failure to involve cross-claimants in the deliberations of officials, for the failure to respond to claimants unless they had persistent lawyers, and finally, for the provision of misleading information to the Waitangi Tribunal, as highlighted by the Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua o \u014Cr\u0101kei hearings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022602b0e2586b541dd87bc4002d5474bc6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before the Minister addresses the question, I remind members that normally a supplementary question is one question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203f96f744e754975be54ead127c11b66\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps the most important question of the many the member asks is the first one. I do not accept the assertion on which that question is based.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7b00dabd5ac4e838752c27b027ad935\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know that at the Standing Orders Committee we have been discussing the question of simultaneous translation, but I think that that answer needs translation into English. Is the Minister saying that absolutely nothing will happen to anyone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af835bbaed8b49dbb606229990b7abcc\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Minister addressed your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022368637963d1f4bca8816ac26b33ebc84\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that there is a problem with the Crown\u2019s approach in the T\u0101maki-makau-rau negotiating process, when the Waitangi Tribunal has labelled the behaviour of the Office of Treaty Settlements as \u201Ccavalier, unfair, generally uncooperative, providing only partial answers to questions, and being less than open in its dealings with the tribunal\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022568e92fc98334a2c8f11eb2e445a93ab\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I have indicated on a number of occasions, I will look very carefully at the critique of the tribunal. However, I do not accept that the attitude or the conduct of the officials was cavalier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022438a2f10a21f41dd8404baeadcd247c9\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s answer to my previous question, is he saying that no action will be taken over officials misleading a judicial tribunal, as highlighted by Judge Wainwright in her report, and should we now refer to his office as the \u201COffice of Perjury\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220132868437654101aa8bba749049b526\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the judge has been moved to clarify her position since issuing that report, by saying that she was not implying that anyone acted intentionally to mislead. I think it is important that the member takes note of that fact. Secondly, if officials have made any good-faith mistake, that is one matter. I do not accept, and I see no evidence to suggest, that any official has intentionally misled any tribunal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e0741bcb4b54e90a748601870d32326\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Is it not ironic that the tribunal reports that the Crown, through the actions of the Office of Treaty Settlements, has \u201Ccrossed over and usurped the rangatiratanga of iwi and hap\u016B, thereby committing grave breaches of the Treaty\u201D, and does that not provide a perfect reason to implement the tribunal\u2019s recommendation that annual audits of the Office of Treaty Settlements be commissioned to ensure that its management and policy operations are aligned to the Crown\u2019s Treaty obligations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fb0eb26fe6c419a9641010758314c67\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not agree with the assertion in the first part of the question. As to the recommendation, as I said before, we will be looking carefully at a number of recommendations. I am not sure that having another agency try to do an annual audit of this agency would add value, but certainly the idea of looking to maximise the quality of work undertaken is something we are constantly seeking to realise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e6632a944a241ce81e10d2fc1e2d476\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that after the tribunal criticised the Office of Treaty Settlement\u2019s non-disclosure of relevant material, several staff from Crown Law had to visit the Office of Treaty Settlements to explain exactly what \u201Crelevant\u201D meant and to go through all of that office\u2019s T\u0101maki-makau-rau files to find relevant material to supply to the tribunal, because Office of Treaty Settlements staff lacked the ability to determine what was or was not relevant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5eaeb7383dc4977bfae4944eea27c9e\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot confirm that because, as usual, the member is misrepresenting the facts. However, I can confirm to the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022929b7bb40a9846d3aee2f3fd7e934eab\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: You are a lazy Minister; that\u2019s why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248dc84adc7384e309c46e0566a6639e7\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: If Mr Henare would like to stop yelling, I will answer the question. I can confirm that Crown Law officials were invited to go and assist the office and, in effect, to do an independent overview of those records. I can also confirm that the tribunal found that the additional documents provided added no new information to that available to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b5577341b084532918e5643a0cbc3d2\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the flagship of the Government\u2019s Treaty negotiations Budget last year\u2014a fourth negotiating team\u2014has not been created, that there are currently no plans to create a fourth negotiating team, and that this is just another broken promise, like \u201Cchewing gum tax cuts\u201D and 20 free hours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600ce8ee46d5437a9ebf7165df1ecdad\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s policy was to ensure the capacity of the Office of Treaty Settlements to engage with, pre-mandate, negotiate with, and provide legal advice to groups was increased. It has been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221772e9f5-5379-4bfe-9d9b-eaffb4c61b02\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7444825995a47e8abf3807e77140141\u0022\u003EHon Harry Duynhoven\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can you inform the House as to whether there has been a rearrangement of the seating order opposite. If there has not been, could you ask Mr Henare to abide by the normal convention of interjecting from his own place, instead of moving closer to the Minister who is answering the question in order to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caa31649ba2547819ae7d4517f842de1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members do from time to time shift their positions in the Chamber. It appears, by the chair he is sitting in, that Mr Henare is now an Opposition whip, so I presume that is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223221eb7cf6fd4363a15df8663ac00382\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that was funny. Hilarious!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022404df2f639204924b93f6e84eddd35dd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would you please leave the Chamber. You are sitting in a whip\u2019s chair, so that is actually the assumption that is made. Those are the conventions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022706986e7ddf8461d830d81954734e54d\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing the dates of the various stages of the settlement process, dated 21 June 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e86b7604fbb64e019cda44a140711ffa\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any feedback yet from M\u0101ori interests expressing concern at the notion that direct negotiations cannot occur until a full Waitangi Tribunal hearing has occurred, causing much greater delays and much greater expense to claimants; if so, what is the Government expected to do in relation to groups that are ready to negotiate, are mandated, and wish to proceed to direct negotiations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ea16fbcae194782afa9b55c77b8f5d5\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm indeed that in the last 24 hours I have had a meeting with one group who have come specifically to express that concern. I have a meeting with another gentleman this afternoon: the senior kaum\u0101tua from another iwi, who, having entered into good-faith discussions with the Crown, now wonders whether that is being undermined. So yes, that has created considerable disquiet. I want to assure all those whom we have engaged with that we will continue to engage in good faith whilst considering carefully the recommendations of the tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecd12eb4f1b74a0b9dec34e49040de67\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is just a point of clarification. When the Attorney-General belatedly leapt to his feet, I could not hear whether my request to table a document had been rejected or accepted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25ce3df18214939b53279bdf0194500\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not hear any objection to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209cdb90f5e65403f9866bcbce5ff8215\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I will now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8e2e1f607144e148678ab6dc2a00831\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you will. [Interruption] It is too late now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f3b081eb000947628a6a5eada030561f\u0022\u003EAfter-school Care\u2014Government Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216c9ff1772394cb59c5591d297f7f41c\u0022\u003ELESLEY SOPER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What is the Government doing to invest further in the provision of out-of-school care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022db8fe2fba95446ae9ea8cf3e514d5cb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db8fe2fba95446ae9ea8cf3e514d5cb6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The Government in Budget 2007 has committed a further $17.4 million over the next 5 years to improve the quality, affordability, and availability of out-of-school services. There are currently 667 out-of-school care and recreation, or \u201COSCAR\u201D, providers delivering 1,100 approved programmes for 5 to 14-year-olds. The average weekly out-of-school care subsidy payment for parents has more than doubled since 1999, increasing from $17 per week, per child, to just over $36 per week now. A strong out-of-school sector, of course, gives parents much more choice in terms of how they combine the responsibilities of work and parenting. It also provides opportunities for children and young people to spend their out-of-school time in more challenging activities, which can, of course, further improve their academic and physical well-being.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b09c5cd01c842c4abdde086e78fba65\u0022\u003ELesley Soper\u003C/span\u003E: What will the extra funding do in terms of improving out-of-school services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282ccd22f09c24635b2eaa25474c4ea6a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The extra funding will be used to increase the pool of funding available to providers to assist with the establishment and development of programmes, to raise the average grant to each provider for such purposes\u2014currently $11,000 but increasing to $13,500\u2014to strengthen the approval process for providers, to establish a quality review group to safeguard and improve the standards and the quality of care, and to establish 12 leading activity-based extended service programmes in low-decile schools. We are working closely with the sector over the implementation of these initiatives to assist them to continue to improve the quality, affordability, and availability of out-of-school services to New Zealand families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022268bc1e605be444c9bfb80c28532087c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In the interests of healthy comparison, I seek to table that provision of the 1998 Budget showing that New Zealand First gave $38 million to out-of-school care for the first year, which somewhat puts this figure of 4 years into\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222733dc78b8e14271805f1c0c85292959\u0022\u003EPolice\u2014Management\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242585d11a79046e0a06a98df80d24193\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Is she satisfied with the performance of police management; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u00222eedbe9f78f34ecaa2c7ed8a61b9918e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222eedbe9f78f34ecaa2c7ed8a61b9918e\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Police: In general, yes, because, if I can borrow words from the member, they are, in the main, a bunch of \u201Cgood roosters\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a8008159aa04e14801b9a74ad50b4a0\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that after an initial trial of stab-proof vests that lasted several months, there was an 18-month delay in their distribution because they were the wrong colour, the wrong fabric, the wrong design, and the wrong size; and why has it only now been discovered that the vests cannot be worn with existing uniform shirts, tunics, and duty jackets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287c85814a88349efbaf99088edb86edd\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Police management acknowledged yesterday at the select committee hearing that there had been a number of problems with this project. It is now on track. The vests will be rolled out by the end of December 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d76a836c8bd486291eaf5cd63715d1e\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Have the police management asked the Minister for additional resources in view of their extra workload, as from today, in policing the new criminalisation of a parent who smacks his or her child even for the purpose of loving correction; or does she expect the police to cope by diverting time and resources from their fight against real crime in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216a1bfc70ac648459d2e43f4daa4ddff\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: No, the police have not asked for extra resources to police the guidelines around the disciplining of children, because they will not need them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d790976f2ea04552a3c7d48f0bc6a2cb\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the police have called for tenders for 35,000 breathable, moisture-wicking shirts, with their expected distribution in March 2008, although police management confirmed to the select committee yesterday that they have no idea how much these shirts will cost, what they will look like, or who will make them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e54f40e23625413fa968fbe8ec02f577\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said before, all of these issues were aired yesterday in the select committee. The police confirmed that there had been problems, they confirmed that everything is on track, and they confirmed that everything will be delivered by December this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b222e738ad314e24b6e564aecd9fba75\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Why has there been no report from the $10,111 concept investigation by Macpac into the design of a new duty jacket, 6 months after the investigation is over; when can we expect to see a report, and how many more millions of dollars will the new duty jackets cost, or does the Minister have no idea of that, either?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c65e11cd2c490d8584128fd748f369\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, of course, one that is a little hypothetical because the police are still working their way through to final delivery of those vests in December this year. I urge the member to put down those precise questions about costs, and I am sure the Minister of Police will reply to them at the appropriate time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212382a4713e84f699b1154b0149cf594\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that this is hardly a parallel roll-out of a new uniform that the police have been planning for some time, as the select committee was told yesterday; and when will we see a compatible uniform and stab-proof vest configuration fully implemented, or has the Minister no idea of that, either?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa9fe64878724bfc8e7f0f2bd6546346\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: At the risk of repeating myself, I would remind the member that I have now said three times that everything is on track for delivery in December 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207959a9873cd4207877d2ba539b8c00e\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: On a more positive note, has the Minister had any reports on the performance of police management in respect of recruiting the extra 1,000 front-line police and 250 support staff agreed under the confidence and supply agreement with New Zealand First?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aa710c36deb4f50a94dfc78c6d5eb0c\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I just happen to have that information. Yes, the New Zealand Police are 53 ahead of the target for the end of the first year of the recruitment of the additional 1,250 staff members. The current attrition rate for sworn members of 3.7 percent is the lowest in more than 10 years. That rate compares favourably with State sector turnover of 21.5 percent, and I think it reflects the very, very good partnership between New Zealand First and the Labour-led Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022800395ffbbaa461ebe359ff48dbcec9f\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm, now that we are getting some idea of the scale and ongoing nature of the stab-proof vest debacle, that she has no idea of the final cost; and how can this mess happen, when the safety of police officers on the front line should be the primary concern of the police and the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c08cac5ad0804348b0f9b71315d95da8\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Let me take a stab at an answer and say that I think one has to go through the tender round before one knows all of those answers. As I said to the member, if he puts down his questions, I am sure that at the appropriate time the Minister of Police will reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274b5db4f13b24ebba196708c9af731b4\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a page from the police response to the Law and Order Committee estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d01b90a42b9430084e643bf4f9097e0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f67ae3dcce7940beb5dacd4b7b6a4422\u0022\u003ERespite Care\u2014Funding and Services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c67ebc8004541c69c277022eddf4b4d\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Disability Issues: Is she confident that having funded 28 days\u2019 respite care for clients with high and complex needs, there are adequate services available in every region and for every age group, and if she has identified gaps, what is she doing about them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002226d1243fb3704eaeafb1c36aa46be6c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226d1243fb3704eaeafb1c36aa46be6c8\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister for Disability Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Funding for services for clients with high and complex needs is actually a matter for the Minister of Health. However, I am informed that there is no longer a 28-day maximum, and that respite care is allocated on the basis of assessed need. On average, clients receive around 31 days\u2019 support. Last year our Government increased residential respite care funding by $2 million, and I understand that a further increase will occur this year. Even so, shortages of service providers do occur from time to time, and they are managed as they arise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242f578f8ecf24cfd81c2e0c09e6e6d86\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the current rate of $64 a night for respite care is about the same amount that used to be allocated for MPs\u2019 daily meal allowance, and does she agree that such a comparison reflects very badly on the respite daily allowance, when caregivers are both feeding and managing clients with high and complex needs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259689e355cac4422b8e007c391770d69\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member is referring to the carer support payment, which is not actually a wage. But this fact, combined with the tight labour market, will certainly contribute to the difficulty in attracting people to this role. My understanding is that announcements on the level of the carer support payments will be made shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ce1712d3f8429a96e77e149a5169ec\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: What has been done recently to improve services to clients with high and complex needs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b6e084fcf634cceb417a4f13877b135\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I mentioned earlier, the increased funding for residential respite care will help to ensure that those families who are entitled to it will receive it. Our Government is also committed to developing and implementing a carer support strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e47a31cdd4624a49931a13feac5404b7\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Why have some parents of high and complex needs children found that the only option available for their children for respite care is totally unsuitable rest homes, as happened last Christmas, and can she assure the House that this will not happen next Christmas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289e63d9e4a9445fa88113c669276355c\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I mentioned in the answer to the primary question, shortages of service providers do occur from time to time; this is more likely to occur around peak times of need for families, such as Christmas, and they are managed in the best way possible at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b81a87d119349aa9bb99d54d6221c40\u0022\u003ETreaty Settlements\u2014Te Puni K\u014Dkiri Advice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cde2777cd3345829a7326d60159b3f8\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: What advice, if any, has Te Puni K\u014Dkiri provided to him on how Treaty settlements can help Maori realise their potential?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u002282e3810063a34f9b95227078d7647988\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282e3810063a34f9b95227078d7647988\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Te Puni K\u014Dkiri recognises the importance of reaching durable Treaty settlements, which significantly contribute to returning economic and other resources for development and self-determination. This is the M\u0101ori Potential Approach for the betterment of iwi, hap\u016B, and wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f4e11e7eb0c46ab83fdb031cac36ff0\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: What advice did he give the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations on whether the Crown should negotiate with just Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua and T\u0101maki-makau-rau, to the exclusion of six other claimant groups?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d794bf86341d48e7a674a5208aa5d9fd\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I, along with my ministry, supported the mandating process, and it is interesting to know that Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, as a whole, accepted that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022107f31704ee449718229119f1efa5ed8\u0022\u003EDave Hereora\u003C/span\u003E: What is Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s role in the Treaty settlement process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f62d0f1b7aa4f60a1fcaf01bd96c72f\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Did you see this one coming?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207786ec4349642a7a56a324c524619c8\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: The sniggering continues. They are an uncultured lot over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265797e8254874c618406697dc308d3ab\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228301d22af8214605abdb728cb65f6642\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: That is the problem. They have got no culture. Te Puni K\u014Dkiri advises on settlement policy, claimant representation and mandate ratification, and the protection mechanism. It also advises on, and in some cases leads, the negotiation of contemporary claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4602acf2bc24ce2b99b619380bdd984\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: What advice did he give the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations on the validity of the Crown\u2019s approach of only negotiating with about half of the Te Arawa confederation of tribes, when it was obvious\u2014and should have been obvious to him, at least\u2014that this would cause tension and conflict?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ecdeea1b85b4d13b24b8c7a9c92c3db\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty-four thousand Te Arawa people made a decision to proceed to settlement negotiations with the Government. There was advice and ongoing connectivity with my colleague. As a former member of the Waitangi Tribunal, Mrs te Heuheu should be well aware that unfortunately most settlements have, at some point, created raruraru\u2014which, for those uncultured people, is differences\u2014within iwi and hap\u016B. It is something I do not think they want to admit happens in their culture: the issue of how to settle what is naturally a challenging process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f414cccf7fa541bca4b2ae193ff7806b\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I did ask the Minister what advice he gave the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations. He rambled on about what was happening in Te Arawa but he did not address that question: \u201CWhat advice did he give?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228954d42e2a714c6ba2071700a550da5d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think he did. I do not know whether the Minister wishes to add anything, but I thought he had addressed the question\u2014that which I could hear over the comments of other members in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022767204c8c1754441934afb18633237cf\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: If Treaty settlements can play such an important role in helping Maori realised their potential, why has the Minister not once complied with his non-discretionary legal obligation under section 8I of the Treaty of Waitangi Act, to lay before the House an annual report on the progress being made in implementing recommendations of the Waitangi Tribunal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb8f7f1c56f3458bbc6832f5331851fb\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: The last report was tabled in 1995\u2014in 1995! A further report for the period of 1996-97 was lodged in the Parliamentary Library, but was not tabled in the House. Next month, I expect to table an updated report that we have been working on for the last 6 months, for the period through to 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022586f79e556cf44fe88bd36f9d8acff6e\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I asked the Minister why he has not complied with his non-discretionary legal obligation to report. He has gone back to years when he was not even in Parliament, and commented on what happened then. He cannot have addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d277c1f18ec46d7b54a2e1e056d0c6d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, he did address the question, I am sorry. He addressed it in terms of what now is happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ba96e0bd98a428ca1109bf11d69e6f5\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri prepared a report for him on the Crown\u2019s progress in implementing Waitangi Tribunal recommendations in the current financial year, but that he refused to accept the report from his own ministry, so that he would not have to inform the House and the people of New Zealand about the Government\u2019s failure to implement those recommendations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022865ae27fc2ed4056b47bb0f59a9ce216\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: That is totally incorrect. I have told that member that I am waiting for a review, and if she did not hear the response before, that is rubbish\u2014utter rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022887dd86fbbc141efb15f4b21c9f40892\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister not agree with the Waitangi Tribunal\u2019s finding, that Te Arawa is now in a state of turmoil; hap\u016B are in contest with other hap\u016B, the preservation of tribal relations has been adversely affected, and they are left fearing for the customary future of Te Arawa waka as a result; it is a very serious state of affairs, and how will Te Puni K\u014Dkiri help Te Arawa M\u0101ori realise their potential under such duress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dc195da7eb04fec831135599f4ff640\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: That member was there at the day of the signing with me, and there was tension, and he was part of that, and I respect him for that, as a Te Arawa person. But that is something for Te Arawa to sort out, not the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9adbce83b6b42abb5eafa5bbaf81c5b\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister concede that the reason he has not once complied with his compulsory statutory obligations and tabled a report is that there is no progress to report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de416bd26f0843008d4321959a11e554\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: That member said yesterday that there were 19 settlements. There are 21\u201411 at the front end, and 10 at the other end. The talk that is coming out of her mouth should be coming out of the other end. What a load of rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8a0fbe0a77246ffab6129f2a4019f67\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an extract from the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975, provision 8I titled \u201CAnnual Report on Implementation of Recommendations\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcf39b3229104e29aed3f56e03c21eaf\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f2e7f929074625ba163303c318345e\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a report by the Parliamentary Library, showing that the Minister has never\u2014never\u2014tabled a report on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c9738facaad4b1bb7dc26d4797345f2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc9574d3651d4235ab4c05c6af64b4e1\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a Parliamentary Library extract that shows a list of dates that negotiations started and finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e8d3d4eaa0840baba8a8ca7a29f3ac9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f881e58a25e4a80b4d80eec82d4a82b\u0022\u003EMedical Services\u2014Rural Areas\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293eb12e472954d76b1b7c61060c63826\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Rural Affairs: Has he received any reports on improving recruitment and retention of medical staff in rural areas? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00223c15619340c64cd8a142ed0a4a9b1f3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c15619340c64cd8a142ed0a4a9b1f3e\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Minister for Rural Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. The Government has announced that from next February the number of fully funded places for general practice training will rise from 69 a year to 104. Also, from February 2008 up to 20 fifth-year medical students from Auckland University will have the opportunity to spend a year working and studying at Whangarei Hospital and smaller hospitals in Northland. Thirdly, the University of Otago has been given $300,000 to develop a curriculum for a rural medical immersion programme at two rural district health boards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e40846ff564434ca2dde40ef536dbb3\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he received on initiatives for rural New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228649942c19e64de39de201abe0bc4598\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Last week I saw a report that fully supports the initiatives this Government is implementing in the rural sector, including improvements to rural health. It includes recommendations to expand the number of medical student places, as well as increasing training in rural and provincial areas. I refer, of course, to National\u2019s rural issues policy paper, which is nothing more than a cut and paste of current Labour policies. That paper does two things: firstly, it endorses current Government initiatives; and, secondly, it marks a return to the failed policies of the 1990s, including the desire to sell Landcorp, privatise the Accident Compensation Corporation, and undercut labour laws so that farm workers become seasonal workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc6dd6a786c34701994a169f446e0404\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister realise that the greatest threat to the rural workforce is the way this Government fails to understand them, value them, and respect them, as recorded in the IPAC 2006 General Practice Business Study, and then has senior public servants refer to nurses as \u201Cvote maximisers\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b5d5b2d6f0440b696d0ad751ca32e0e\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am very aware of the 2006 study by the Independent Practitioners Association Council. In fact, it was a study of 36 general practitioners out of a total of 1,100. I accept that some of those recommendations have some validity, but I do not accept that the study was a wide-ranging study of the rural health sector across the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258bde6389ee54764b176887e534cfb67\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022f19d34b9c17b4e319bd8aab514ba1abd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f19d34b9c17b4e319bd8aab514ba1abd\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table this code of conduct\u2014the one for MPs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d50deb2962bc4ddfac9a286efa22990e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table the code of conduct. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002241524453af784c2ba55304eb9d30a6a7\u0022\u003ESocial Security Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228886127dcc13412184092cef754ccdb4\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022058bad83fc1248e1a2fa3b79fdc0c084\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022058bad83fc1248e1a2fa3b79fdc0c084\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Security Amendment Bill be now read a third time. The Government introduced this bill to signal our commitment to providing the right services and support for people to retain, find, or move towards employment. We consider it to be an integral part of the Working New Zealand initiatives and a move towards aligning or removing outdated provisions in the Social Security Act. The work focus of this bill is a very positive objective. It supports the basic purpose of the Social Security Act in relation to providing social and financial support to people for whom work is not appropriate or who are, for some reason, not able to work for a time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces a number of significant new provisions. It introduces, first of all, new planning requirements for people who are receiving sickness or invalids benefits. This does not mean that people will be pressured into taking up or returning to work. I have been very concerned about inaccurate and irresponsible statements in this regard that have been made in the media. Those statements have also clearly concerned other members of this House, and members of the community. Taito Phillip Field, in particular, has discussed his concerns with me, and it is at his request that I stress, a further time, that no undue pressure of any kind will be put on non work-tested beneficiaries, as a result of this legislation, to take up work or return to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EI have also introduced further steps in respect of staff training, and implementation will be taken to ensure that this is so. Extra monitoring regimes will also be implemented to ensure that my expectations in that respect are met. Planning, though, is about enabling people to reach their full potential. Through sitting down and talking to people, we can better understand their needs and aspirations. Working more actively with people will mean that we can better provide them with the services and support they need. Planning takes account also of individual circumstances, and can address issues such as training, housing, finance, health, transport, work aspirations, and ability. It provides the opportunity for a case manager to build a rapport with the person concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003ETo take a flexible approach to planning based on a person\u2019s circumstances recognises that a one-size-fits-all approach does not work and is not appropriate, especially for disabled people or people with ill health. Rather than having a preconceived idea of a person\u2019s capabilities, the focus of the planning work will be on working with individuals to set realistic goals and supporting them, of course, to achieve agreed goals. People who are clearly unable to plan will not be required to do so. There are now, and will be in the future, people receiving sickness or invalids benefits for whom planning is not appropriate. For example, if a person has a very serious illness or impairment that requires a high level of support for everyday living, it would obviously be most unreasonable to expect that person to plan for a future that could potentially involve a return to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EChanges to the current requirement for other benefits are also introduced, including the introduction of a pre-benefit activity requirement for those on the unemployment benefit. New requirements for 16 and 17-year-olds that will encourage them to be actively involved in educational training are part of this legislation, as is a correction power so that a benefit can commence at an earlier date than the date of application, where a person has failed to complete an application because of an error on the part of the ministry. Also, the bill includes a legislative framework for the application process for benefits, to ensure that there is a robust transfer of information and that the process is clear and transparent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003ESo for the sake of the absence of all doubt, let me again repeat that I have asked the Ministry of Social Development to issue clear operational instructions to reinforce the procedures for the implementation of the bill. This will stress that non-work-tested beneficiaries are not to be subjected to pressure to take up or return to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe bill will be beneficial in a number of further ways. It reduces the maximum income stand-down period from 10 weeks to 2 weeks; it aligns the residence criteria at 2 years for all benefits except the emergency unemployment benefit; and it extends the definition of hospital care to include residential care of an equivalent kind, so that more people will be able to access the domestic purposes benefit for the care at home of the sick or infirm. The bill also removes the qualifying child criteria for domestic purposes and widows benefits, so that access to those benefits will be based on the residence of the caregiver and the dependent child.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe bill extends the exemption to the stand-down period to any person entering a refuge, not just sole parents; it extends the continuation of benefits for 8 weeks to all sole parents, not just those receiving a domestic purposes benefit when they lose the care of a child in circumstances outside their control; and it allows young people leaving the care of Child, Youth and Family to access the independent youth benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EI am pleased to compliment the Social Services Committee, and I would like to thank it for the result of its deliberations, which resulted in a number of amendments to the bill. These amendments have improved the clarity of the bill and put the policy intent beyond doubt, especially in relation to the application process and \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D. The select committee identified an issue that the Government has also followed up on immediately. As a result of submissions to the select committee, and the representations of my colleague Lynne Pillay in particular, the Government agreed to introduce a Supplementary Order Paper to the bill. Supplementary Order Paper 114 inserted a further amendment into the bill that extends the provision currently available for the blind to travel overseas for vocational training for up to 2 years without loss of entitlement to benefit to any person on an invalids benefit as a result of disability, ill health, or injury. This change has been welcomed by the community. It is a very positive change, I am sure members will agree, that will assist people with disabilities to undertake vocational training where that training is, for whatever reason, not available in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the members of the Social Services Committee who supported and improved this bill. I acknowledge Sue Mackwell and her team from the Ministry of Social Development for their hard work and commitment in making improvements to legislation for which they should be justifiably proud. In closing, let me also pass my appreciation to those members of the House who have dealt with this legislation as a matter of principle, in particular New Zealand First, United Future, Gordon Copeland, and Taito Phillip Field. I am delighted to have the honour of commending the Social Security Amendment Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00224e8c2123a88a466aac01f1df3191791f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e8c2123a88a466aac01f1df3191791f\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E This Social Security Amendment Bill is a very interesting bill, which came before the Social Services Committee. As was commented on the other day by Sue Bradford in the House, this is yet another amendment to the Social Security Act. One of the points that Mrs Bradford made\u2014and, I thought, made very well\u2014is that this is just another part of the huge matrix that is social security legislation. We have a bill that although we who are on the select committee know what it is about to do, and we know what it is all about, most New Zealanders, if they are trying to search for some change, or amendment, or for what this bill does, will very soon have real difficulty in finding out what the rules are. That is because the bill refers to sections in other Acts and does not just deal with what is in front of it. I think it is incredibly important\u2014and this is a point that Mrs Bradford made that I think was absolutely right\u2014that we should always try to create legislation that is not only in plain English, as much as possible, but that is able to be accessed readily by the people who are meant to be able to access it. This bill simply does not meet that requirement. It is just another piece of legislation in this area that could, in fact, have been put together in one big piece of legislation to have this whole area looked at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that could really have been called the \u201CSingle Core Benefit (Phase One) Bill\u201D. That is because this is phase one of the single core benefit that the Government has been promising in its various forms really since 2000, and even before that in 1989 when Michael Cullen was the Minister of Social Welfare\u2014before \u201Cwelfare\u201D was turned into \u201Cdevelopment\u201D under this Government. So this is a bill that is just a little step along the way. It does not really put a lot in the way of sanctions for people who simply do not want to cooperate. It does have sanctions for people who do not want to have personal development plans, it does have sanctions for people who do not want to carry out the personal development plans, but for those who simply want to put together a plan that they will agree to, where they do not plan to do very much, it does not do a lot about them. I suggest to this House that the people who will be sanctioned are those who are genuinely trying to improve their lot and to contribute to the community, the people who really do put together a plan and then find that it has been a bit ambitious for them and they cannot comply with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think it is a shame when we have to ask sickness and invalid beneficiaries to plan to work whether or not they really can be expected to. I think that is a shame. If only we had a system that said that those who really cannot work because of sickness or a disability do not have to be classed in with those who can work but wish not to. It is a real shame that we have this current situation. We have it, of course, because there are now over 125,000 working-age New Zealanders who, according to this Government, are too sick to work. That is a 50 percent increase since Labour came into power, despite the now $4 billion extra spent on health every year. So we are trying to deal with a situation here where a lot of people have been shifted off the unemployment benefit and put into a sickness or an invalids benefit category and now we will be asking them whether they would like to work. Well, the answer, in some cases, will pretty much be no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe other thing is the question of why we are doing this for people who are genuinely too sick to work and should not have to be asked to work. I think that is a real shame. One of the things that the Minister has never really been very good at is being gracious. He needs to understand that some of the sensible amendments in the bill came about because of the good work done by National Party members on the select committee and also, I should say, by members from the ACT party, the Greens, and United Future\u2014those people who were actually there. All the Minister wants to do is take credit for those who support him on everything he does, which, frankly, is a bit difficult. I understand he has one or two votes in this one. In a major piece of legislation, that is all he can scrape together. To hear him today praising Taito Phillip Field after all the other things he and his party have said about him is pretty interesting, to say the least.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bff77f06122b42d8b6528498a8bd4f7b\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: Generous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dcf1622b00f49e1a13d54bc2a0f5ae4\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I would not say it was generous; I would say it was interesting. Of course, we are not allowed to use the word that it actually is. So I think that is incredibly interesting. This Government is now relying on the votes of Gordon Copeland and Taito Phillip Field for one of its major pieces of legislation, because it does not have enough sense to come along and talk sensibly to people in this Parliament and ask them about their concerns. Instead, it needs to actually go to Taito Phillip Field and Gordon Copeland. Well, I will not say anything about dogs lying down and getting fleas, but some people might use that term. If people lie down with dogs, they get up with fleas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis is legislation on which we received so many submissions, and hardly any of them supported the bill. The people who came to talk to us about it were people from the disability sector, like those from IHC New Zealand. They also are concerned that people who are genuinely ill will be expected to plan to work. I have no problem with saying that those who are malingering and do not really need to be on a sickness benefit should be working. We in the National Party think it is incredibly important that those who are genuinely ill and unable to work are assured that they will not be pressured into it by somebody in a Work and Income office with a quota, or feel they are being bullied\u2014bullied by this Minister and his cronies\u2014into getting a job or trying to find one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe only other interesting things we heard were from a very good submission by the Rotorua People\u2019s Advocacy Centre. Its submission was an incredibly good one. Its representatives said that at the behest of the Families Commission the centre had looked at just how good these personal development employment plans were. They found a very interesting fact, which was that most of the people who fill out these plans do not do anything with them. One of the reasons is that the people do not even get a copy when they leave the office. In other words, people go along, do their plan, then 1 year later go along and do another plan. When the Ministry of Social Development person was asked about why this was, the answer was that nobody expects them to do anything with it. This is just another cynical attempt to look as though something is being done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe fact is that some people are going to be in work as a result of being asked to plan for this to happen, and that is a good thing. Some people are not. At the end of the day a lot of this could be avoided if only we had proper medical criteria around the sickness benefit and invalids benefit. If only this Minister would stop saying that everyone who is on a sickness benefit should be there. If only he would work in with the doctors\u2019 group to get better requirements around the sickness benefit in particular. If only he would make sure that doctors were not subject to intimidation; and if only he would make sure that doctors were not bullied by Work and Income people sending them hundreds of people to sign off on a sickness benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI noticed, the other day, that a doctor had signed off 300 people on a sickness benefit in the matter of a month. These are huge numbers. We worked out that this doctor was making about $600 a day out of the sickness benefit, and that was three visits a day. Unbelievable amounts of money are going through under this system. Yet every time doctors stand up and say that they are being bullied, that they do not have to be bullied on this, and that they would like to be able to sign off things properly, what happens? What happens is that this Government then accuses them of being part of some fraudulent activity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bb8dd2a2f674586bcc31c8a267cbc79\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: What happens?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022275248e3780948b7997bcef77e5879d6\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: If that member would like to take a call, he should stand up and take one, instead of just yapping from the sidelines with his little puppy-mate next door to him. That is what he should do; he should just take a call. What that member Mr Fairbrother over there should really do is contribute in a more positive way and talk about the good things that can be done in this area, rather than constantly yapping from the sidelines with his little mate. That is what he should do instead of yapping from over there. This is one of the problems. This is why Mr Fairbrother is on his way out. But never mind; he is a nice enough bloke, and I like the fact that he upsets Michael Cullen. That is a good thing. He is not a bad bloke at all, actually, and he did chair the committee very well, even though I notice he has not been generous in his praise for the other parties that assisted the committee at all stages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis bill is not one we feel we can support. We think it is unfortunate that people who are severely disabled will in fact feel under pressure to find paid employment when they really should not have to. We think it is wrong that the \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D component has been taken out of any sanction activities so that, in effect, those who really could be getting some work experience will not have any incentive to get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5f987daa26f4801a5d9517beac9ac27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5f987daa26f4801a5d9517beac9ac27\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a huge pleasure to follow on from the deputy chair of the Social Services Committee after that stunningly, stunningly empty speech. When I was listening to her, I thought that, gosh, all I could really say about that speech is that she is taking a long time to dance on the head of a pin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EFirst of all, she attacked the style of the bill\u2014the wording. Nothing was said about that in the select committee. She went on to say that it would help beneficiaries who want to malinger. But then the real agenda of her party came out of her pursed lips\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259b587a6754d479fb00a0e77a602752c\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Pursed!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f21c3cd2f2048879edffbc8bd1ba7b9\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they stuck out. She was trying to avoid the word \u201Csanctions\u201D, but she deviated from the script given to her by her whips, because she is like that; deviation is one of the things she specialises in, especially when the whips give her an instruction. In the course of her deviation, the word \u201Csanctions\u201D slipped out. She said there are no sanctions in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EEvery beneficiary should be worried about those words. Every New Zealander should be worried about those words, because very few families in New Zealand are not touched by disability, mental health issues, or disadvantage. Whilst we are in good form and strong of our own mind and body, it is easy to categorise those who depend on the State as requiring sanctions. We heard from the National Party\u2019s representative today that National members want more sanctions in the provision of social welfare. Perhaps that is why it is estimated that, under National, about 160 families would lose about $50 a week because of National\u2019s sanction-ridden policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EBut I want to get to this Social Security Amendment Bill in the short time that is available to me today. I will just comment on the point made by the previous speaker when she laboured over new section 1B(d), to be inserted into the Social Security Act by clause 23 of the bill. It provides: \u201Cpeople for whom work is not appropriate should be supported in accordance with this Act.\u201D What National members are avoiding doing is speaking about the purpose and principles sections. They have spread the fear among the community that this is a punitive bill, yet they come here and speak about it not having sanctions; they have spread the hype that they have a concern for the disadvantaged, yet they speak about the bill not having sanctions; and they refuse to speak about clause 23, which introduces sections 1A and 1B to the primary Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI want to take the House to the new section 1A, which is the purpose section: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is\u2014(a) to enable the provision of financial and other support as appropriate\u2014\u2026\u201D. Who can object to that? This is a country that looks after its own. This is a country that encourages excellence, achievement, and attainment, and assists those for whom those are not possible. Then paragraph (b) states: \u201Cto enable in certain circumstances the provision of financial support to people to help alleviate hardship:\u201D. That is exactly what everyone in New Zealand wishes we were like, and, under this Government, that is what we are like. Section 1A(c) states: \u201Cto ensure that the financial support referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b) is provided to people \u2026\u201D, taking into account two basic steps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EOf course, those are directions not to beneficiaries, as has been promoted by the opponents of the bill, but to the Ministry of Social Development, which administers the legislation. It is the ministry that must enable the provision of financial and other support. It is the ministry that is to enable in certain circumstances the provision of financial support. It is the ministry that must ensure that the financial support is provided. All that is asked in return is some administrative and, where appropriate, work-related requirements on people seeking or receiving financial support under the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EEven that is qualified in the principles clause. First of all, the basic principle in section 1B(a) is one that every Kiwi aspires to: \u201Cwork in paid employment offers the best opportunity for people to achieve social and economic well-being:\u201D. I repeat: work in paid employment offers the best opportunity for people to achieve social and economic well-being. What could be more clear than that? What could we contest about that? I wait to hear a speaker from the other side of the House say what is wrong with that as a basic principle in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe second principle is: \u201C(b) the priority for people of working age should be to find and retain work:\u201D. This is the key to the programme that this bill reflects. It is not just about making work out of nothing; it is about finding work that is sustainable, because this Government aims for full employment and worthwhile employment. So we will help people who have been unemployed to find work, but it is to be work that is sustainable. This is the key to the bill: sustainability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EOf course, there are some people for whom work, much as they want it, is inappropriate. Most beneficiaries, to my knowledge, would like to have work, but there are some people who currently cannot work. But they are not sidelined because of that, because there is an onus on the ministry to assist such people to plan for work in the future and to develop employment-focused skills. So those who can work will be assisted into sustainable work, and those who may be able to work in the future will be prepared for the day when they can enter into the workforce and undertake sustainable work. Then there is the third category, which contains the people who, probably, most want to work, and they are the people for whom work is not appropriate. This legislation provides that they should be supported by having financial assistance to relieve their hardship. This third category of people genuinely want to work but, because of circumstances beyond their control, cannot. They will welcome the passing of this Social Security Amendment Bill into law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis bill is a very good change to our social security policy. This change highlights the difference between Labour members and the National members opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7ba3918b1ff4affa2b4001dd2e0ecfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7ba3918b1ff4affa2b4001dd2e0ecfd\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E National is opposing the Social Security Amendment Bill at its third reading in the House today, and people may ask why. Well, we think this bill is another piece of political puffery from a Government that has run out of ideas, and from a Minister for Social Development and Employment who has few ideas about how to manage a significant portfolio that has a profound effect on the lives of many of the most vulnerable New Zealanders\u2014those who are reliant on the State for financial support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EPeople may ask what this bill will do. It does what most New Zealanders thought the Government was already doing: getting New Zealanders into the workforce, giving them a step up for themselves and their families, giving them a step up towards self-esteem, self-sufficiency, and satisfaction. More important, it gives them a step towards active participation in their communities. We all thought that was what Work and Income was doing, anyway, so why do we need this bill? Why do we need this bill, and all the puffery that preceded its passage through this House? The Minister announced it was the biggest reform to the welfare system in 50 years. Yes, the Minister actually said that, when all it does is tidy up a few loose ends and essentially changes very little. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill talks about sickness and invalids benefits, whose numbers have risen 50 percent under this Minister and this Government. There are now over 125,000 New Zealanders getting either a sickness or invalids benefit. That is a quarter of a million working-age people, out of a country of 4 million in total. Come on, Minister! That just cannot be right. Who would believe that so many working-age New Zealanders are too sick to work? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EEvery time we raise this with the Minister, and my colleague Judith Collins does this regularly at question time, the Minister babbles on about what is happening in other countries, under other Governments, and under other Ministers\u2014as if that makes it OK. Well, it is not OK, and I know, from the people in my own electorate who have sat in my office and told me, that some Work and Income staff are encouraging, and have encouraged, people from the unemployment register to move on to a sickness benefit in order to make the figures look better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9aed101eefa4488944e73e3692d441f\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: The member should stop telling lies. Give me the names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022752991e35905472b9a0991d718e32ffa\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the Minister that it cannot be denied; it happens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221520f21f4bea410bbce84dc854f9ba34\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member cannot say that. Please withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286889509d7314234b2786e1ef41f4958\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea52ead258e4483ca257d54a17d983c5\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I know of a chap in \u014Cp\u014Dtiki who was on a temporary benefit for well over a year. Work and Income wanted to put him on to a sickness benefit, and he did not want a bar of it. He sat in my office in Whakat\u0101ne and said to me: \u201CI\u2019m a good worker. I have been sick, but now I\u2019m well, I\u2019m fit, and I want a job. Why won\u2019t they help me find a job?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ETo the shame of this Minister and this Labour Government, in the last 7 years about 30,000 people have switched from the unemployment benefit to a sickness benefit. The Government is rorting the figures to make them look better, but, worse, it is denying good people the opportunity to get out in the community, and to work to support themselves and their family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65e183d4ac4469c8577e47e2baa12c3\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am rather surprised but I think I did hear the member accuse me and the ministry of rorting the figures. I take offence at that and I would ask her to withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260fb40520e4f4af49903acb616c10364\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I will ask the member to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f35f602443a044ca818e68586ade060c\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. This Government is manipulating the figures so that it makes them look better. Thirty thousand people have moved from the unemployment benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b48428135d3743999ee6c235d0c5f782\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Government does not produce the figures. The figures are produced by the Ministry of Social Development. They cannot in any way be manipulated by the Government. That is a totally inappropriate and outrageous statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca74be1e0cdd48098e0c6105f4cccea8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has raised a debating point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213dc646965954612a10faaf8f262f752\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The worst thing about the manipulation of figures is that it is covering up the manipulation of people. People have a right to get the appropriate benefit and the appropriate assistance to help them find a job. The Minister has himself admitted that one out of five potential sickness or invalids beneficiaries who have been signed up by a doctor is fit for work. We might have expected that this amendment bill that we are debating today would address that issue, but it does not. We thought maybe there would be a change in the assessment criteria, because people who are being signed up on the sickness benefit may not be sick and should not be there. Surely this bill was the place for the Minister to tidy this up. But, no, we have no changes in the amendment bill to catch that 20 percent who should not be receiving a sickness benefit. So we can only assume that this Labour Government does not care that a fifth of the people claiming the benefit are not actually sick, and are not being assisted to find their way back into the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker talked a lot about sanctions as if they were a dirty word. There are sanctions in this bill for those who will not put a plan together in order to get back into work. But there are not sufficient sanctions for people who refuse to work, and who insist upon relying on the State to support them. Yesterday, during the Committee stage, I questioned the Minister about the existing provisions for sanctions and how often they were applied. I gathered from his answers that they were not applied very often. He has repeated comments about sanctions in the House today, but this bill should have addressed some better sanctions on people who consistently refuse to turn up and take part in the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EI talked last night, and I want to talk again, about some records that were provided to me by a pack-house in my electorate. They were kept to show the work records of 21 people provided through Work and Income. In one gang of 21 people, over the 18 weeks they were working the number dwindled to three people showing up for work in the last week. One of those worked a total of 18\u00BD hours over 18 weeks, and the other two worked a total of 8\u00BD hours. Two people did not show up on the first day. Over the next 6 weeks, one worked 67 hours in total. That is an average of 11 hours a week. The other worked 100 hours. That is an average of just 16 hours a week. But it got worse, because they never turned up again for the following 12 weeks. They never ever showed their faces again. The guys managing the pack-house were tearing their hair out. They had work to be done. They had provided a bus to collect the workers. They had provided training and management, tools, and safety gear. All they wanted was the workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThis is a good industry\u2014the kiwifruit industry. They were offering these workers the important job of pruning. It is essential that the pruning is done immediately after the crop is picked, so that there is a crop in the next year. A career path was set out for those workers that they could eventually make their way through, perhaps to become part of a workforce that had work for 9 months of the year. All the pack-house wanted was for the workers to come to work. What they got was a phone call every day from Work and Income, with an ever-increasing list of who was not coming to work that day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ESo Work and Income knew that those workers were not showing up. By week 7, 12 were no-shows, two turned up and worked 4 days, two worked 3 days, three worked 2 days, and two worked 1 day in the week. And that was just week 7. By the end\u2014by week 18\u201418 out of the original 21 people were not turning up for work. After all that work, effort, and expense, only three people took advantage of the job offer put in front of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThat is just not good enough. It is not good enough for them or for the community that has to support them. The pack-house itself employed someone to go round and knock on the doors of those people, to wake them up and get them turned out for work, and that worked spasmodically. But it should not have been the job of the people from the pack-house to do that; that should have been the job of Work and Income. With all the talk about assisting people into work, and making sure there are provisions to do so, anyone would have expected Work and Income to do that follow-up. We can only hope that this bill turns out to be more than mere puffery from this Minister and this deadbeat Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002221f2b93f6bc642c680c90a7b2a045854\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221f2b93f6bc642c680c90a7b2a045854\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support the third reading of the Social Security Amendment Bill. In New Zealand First we believe that the employment of New Zealanders is a priority and that we cannot afford to limit the labour-market capacity in any way if the economy is to grow. We all want the economy to grow, and we hear about that daily in this House. People who are able to work should be given the right services and support so that they can retain, find, or move towards employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe focus on work is a very positive feature of this bill, and it is one we would expect any Government to have, particularly a National Government. When we hear from National members that they are very reluctant to support this initiative, yet daily they bring the issue of unemployment to the House\u2014whether it be the household labour force survey figures or the unemployment figures\u2014this is indeed surprising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe welfare system can never be a lifestyle choice for people who are able to work. In New Zealand First we recognise too that there is a small group of people for whom work is not an appropriate choice, as they have high health needs. We also know that some people need help at times, and we believe that the welfare system should provide a helping hand, particularly when people need it most. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand First we like the emphasis that this bill has on planning requirements for a working future for those who are able to do so. If people do not know what they want to achieve or to do with their life, then they will never ever achieve it. One of the hardest things for people who are looking for work is to work out the direction in which they wish to go. We are very pleased to see that some assistance will be given in this area and that people\u2019s circumstances, like transport, training, education, and ability will be taken into account. We know that people often need to be helped to set realistic goals, then helped to achieve them. I remember some years ago that quite a number of the people who went to the Work and Income New Zealand office wanted to be acrobats, astronauts, or clowns. Although for some people those goals might be achievable, I would say that for most people they definitely are not. In the main, they are unrealistic career choices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe encouragement for 16 and 17-year-olds to be actively involved in education and training is extremely positive. We applaud that. New Zealand First believes in the concept of mutual obligations. When a person is unable to get paid employment, the State will pay that person on the understanding that he or she is involved in making some contribution back to the community. Of course, that contribution can be training or some pre-employment programme. We believe that that type of programme helps people to understand what is required in a job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWork experience is a valuable training ground for employment. We believe that work experience should be for only a limited time as young people need to be actively engaged in the workforce and to receive the right payment for what they are doing. We do not want to see unfair advantage taken of any beneficiary. We can only commend the very many employers in the retail sector and the fast-food industry who put so much effort into hiring and training young people. All of the aspects of the world of work that we take for granted have to be taught to most young people, such as getting to work on time; focusing on one task for 8 hours or so; working the required length of time in the day; keeping their uniform tidy; working as part of a team; and working safely\u2014the list just goes on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EEnsuring that young people have these skills is not easy. As a parent, I know that it is a challenge. My son had some challenges initially when he went to work as a trolley assistant at a supermarket. It was quite a challenge to have to focus on that job for 8 hours, but I am pleased to say that he has achieved it and he is very happy to be there. It is essential that young people learn these skills and learn for themselves that they can achieve greater heights on money they have actually earned than if they are dependent on a benefit and basically having the State dictate the level of their living. Everyone needs to feel that he or she matters and makes a contribution in some way. The focus on work is one of the ways we can do this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand First we are very pleased that the number of young people on a benefit is steadily reducing. The negative outcomes that result from unemployment\u2014the mental health issues, the substance abuse issues, and criminal activities\u2014are all aspects of life that we do not want young people involved in or with. Success in employment, training, and education are definitely the most important ways out of poverty, and all the research shows this. Dr Muriel Newman, a former ACT MP, always emphasised that families and people cannot succeed when they are living on a benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe are pleased to see too that the work focus has been extended to people on other benefits, as well, particularly the sickness benefit and the invalids benefit. We have been concerned at the growing trend of those on the unemployment benefit being moved on to the sickness benefit, but the reality for some people is that being out of work and on the unemployment benefit makes them ill and basically unable to work. The hardest thing in life is often to take the first step, and it is a good initiative to provide support and services for people so that this step can be successful and so that they can have a future they are looking forward to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe were interested and pleased to see that the stand-down period for benefits has been reduced from 10 weeks to 2 weeks. I always wondered how people affected by unemployment could look after themselves and their families for 10 weeks without any form of assistance. A large percentage of these people would not have been highly paid, and, like most people, would have been waiting for pay day, and to survive for a long period of time without money must be extremely challenging. I know that Sue Bradford would agree with me on this particular issue\u2014she is nodding. This change to the stand-down period is a positive change. We want to encourage people to be involved. We do not want to encourage people to be involved with loan sharks or with any questionable activities in order to get the money they need to survive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe select committee\u2019s change to extend the provision for the blind to travel overseas for vocational training is positive and must be commended. It is paramount that people with disabilities can undertake training overseas when that training is not available here in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand First we know that working adults are the basis of a successful society, and we are very pleased to see the constructive measures that are outlined in this bill. People today face a far more complex and challenging environment than ever before, and gaining full-time employment can be extremely difficult, partially as a result of economic conditions. So assistance such as that outlined in this bill is a very positive change. We want people to participate in the workforce, and we want them to be able to do so. The benefits of working outweigh the benefits of not working. The reality is that all jobs matter. They are all essential; otherwise they would not be created. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe direction in this bill is sound, and it is sound for any Government to take. We would be very critical of this bill if such measures were not being followed. We like the philosophy that is fundamental to this bill. Everyone should be encouraged to work if they possibly can do so. New Zealand First supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f078d4400b3c49f3b9295c89e0ba9b17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f078d4400b3c49f3b9295c89e0ba9b17\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Once again we have a social security amendment bill going through its third reading debate in the House, and marking yet another attempt to patch up the incredibly fragmented jumble that constitutes the Social Security Act 1964 as amended many dozens of times. On 29 May this year in the Supreme Court, Justice Blanchard made a statement in the Owens case. He said that Ministry of Social Development staff present in court should register his concern about the serious patchwork mess that the Social Security Act had grown into, and he said that something needed to be done. He went on to say that the court had given similar advice to the Government previously around the Immigration Act and now the Social Security Act warranted the same sort of advice\u2014that is, that it needed to be totally reorganised. He expressed the hope that day that those Ministry of Social Development officials in court might relay that message onwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI do not know whether the Minister is aware of Justice Blanchard\u2019s recent comments, but I urge him to heed these words. I realise he is probably utterly sick of the Green Party calling for a new Social Security Act, but I sincerely hope that the justice\u2019s statement, made so recently, might carry a little more weight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe Government should not continue amending, in this ad hoc manner, the original Act, which is, after all, well over 40 years old. Instead, all the manifest expertise available at the Ministry of Social Development should be called upon to put together new legislation that is fit for the 21st century. What we need is clear new law designed to make our welfare system fair, accountable, simple, and responsive to the real needs of those dependent upon it in any way. Behind that, of course, we need a Work and Income department that is ready, willing, and able to administer the detail of the system in as equitable and respectful a way as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe particular bill in front of us this afternoon is a little classic of its type, in terms of its piecemeal approach. Some of it contains beneficial changes, including things like the reduction of the maximum stand-down period to 2 weeks, the development of consistent residential qualifications across the benefit system, and some constructive changes to details of the administration of the domestic purposes benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI also welcomed, during the Committee deliberation, the amendment put forward by the honourable Minister, David Benson-Pope, that gives the Ministry of Social Development the discretion to pay an invalids benefit to a person who is overseas for a period of not more than 2 years for the purpose of receiving vocational or guide-dog training, providing he or she cannot receive the same training here. I had put forward my own more limited Supplementary Order Paper to this effect, and I was delighted that the Government went further with its own amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI was also pleased that the Government saw fit to make it very clear, during the process of dealing with this bill, that the Scoble principle will continue to apply, and that when someone applies for one type of benefit or is given one type of benefit when they first apply, that will be taken as a valid application for any benefit, should the department subsequently work out that another one is more appropriate. It is good, too, that during the select committee process the bill was amended to make it clear that beneficiaries on a sickness or invalids benefit will not be sanctioned if they do not take up \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D as part of their job-seeker agreements. Along with many submitters on the bill, I had a real worry that this could have been a gentle but nevertheless very real way of reintroducing a form of required work for the dole through the back door. I am relieved that the Government has chosen to make it very clear that this is not the direction in which it wishes to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHowever, despite these changes made during the course of the bill\u2019s passage through the House, the Green Party continues to oppose this bill, overall, on several grounds. First of all, there were several matters that we tried to amend in the House, including issues around pre-benefit activity for people on the unemployment benefit and the definition of \u201Cincome\u201D. Although these are quite technical matters, they are fundamental in terms of providing a fair and reasonable administration of the benefit system. It was really disappointing that only M\u0101ori Party members saw fit to support our amendments, and I thank them very much for that support and for the understanding they bring to this Parliament of the realities that beneficiaries face in their daily lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003ESecondly, and more critically, our fundamental opposition to this bill, which I realise the Government does not quite understand, is based around the changes it makes to the purposes and principles of the Social Security Act. The Minister himself, in a presentation to the Social Services Committee last week, said the changes represented by this bill were the biggest reform to welfare since the original 1938 Act. He is absolutely right; it was just that that was the first time I had seen the Government acknowledge it. Without the kind of consultative process one might expect for such a major change of direction, and without the support of most of the submitters to the bill at the select committee, the Government has put up a new principles and purposes section that basically alters our country\u2019s whole approach to social security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWhat is being enshrined there is a \u201Cwork first\u201D approach. Work is seen as the ultimate goal for all working-age citizens and residents. This completely devalues the work of caring for children and/or the elderly, the sick, and the disabled, or the other essential contributions that so many beneficiaries make on a daily basis to their local communities. Although I welcome the fact that all beneficiaries will have access to work and training assistance from the department, should they want it, this bill goes way too far in reinforcing the attitude that those on a benefit are intrinsically worth less than those in paid work, in that the work they do\u2014even that most essential task of caring for others\u2014is not seen as something to be valued and respected in itself. I am also concerned that people who suffer or are recovering from mental illness, injury, sickness, and physical or intellectual disability will come under increased pressure to go out into the workforce in a way that could, at times, make their personal situation even worse and more stressful than it is already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe purposes and principles section of the new bill also promotes a rigid interpretation and administration of our welfare system. It entrenches the moves begun most significantly with the shift from the special benefit to the temporary additional support, with the whole system becoming more rigid, less discretionary, and less able to meet people\u2019s actual needs. I continue to hear stories of beneficiaries being forced to rely on impossibly low amounts of money to survive, because the discretion of the special benefit is no longer available. The objective of our social welfare system should be to enable people to participate fully in our society and clothe, house, and feed their children and themselves with dignity and adequacy, not simply to alleviate hardship only to the extent provided by the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWe should go back to the 1938 Act, to the recommendations of the two royal commissions on social policy, to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and to the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act in order to find purposes and principles that would do justice to a truly fair and progressive welfare system. I also have a fundamental fear that the nature of this bill will in fact possibly lay the groundwork for much more regressive reforms to welfare legislation, should we end up with a National-led Government at some point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI am not surprised, but I am sorry, that the Government showed no interest in amending the purposes and principles sections of this bill as per my proposed amendments during the Committee stage. This debate on the nature and purpose of the welfare system will, however, continue, and the Green Party will not shy away from continuing to put forward a very different vision than that proposed by either the Labour or the National Parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EA final matter I would briefly like to touch on before I finish today concerns the report done by the Rotorua People\u2019s Advocacy Centre, some conclusions of which were put forward as part of its submission on this bill. This research dealing with improved work-life balance for people on the domestic purposes benefit had been commissioned, paid for, and signed off by the Families Commission before the Rotorua People\u2019s Advocacy Centre\u2019s submission was made. The report was totally relevant to the bill before us. The implementation of the personal development and employment plan system, which constitutes the major focus of the report, is going to be widened out through this bill. However, 2 days after the Rotorua People\u2019s Advocacy Centre\u2019s submission to the select committee on 28 March, its final report was suddenly renamed by the Families Commission, retrospectively becoming a \u201Cdraft final report\u201D, and eight pages of new demands were submitted to the authors. Before 28 March everything had been on track to publication, but after the submission was made, suddenly the Families Commission withdrew its support. I find the political implications of this very disturbing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EOn top of that, I have since discovered that the Ministry of Social Development had, on 20 March, made a report that said the publication of this research would make a risk to the social development portfolio. This risk was, firstly, because some of the matters contained in the report were relevant to the Child Poverty Action Group case against the in-work payment, and, secondly, because the Ministry of Social Development believed that: \u201CThe report created a misleading impression about the provisions contained in the Social Security Amendment Bill affecting sole parents.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI find it incredible that publication of a report could be halted because of these so-called risk factors, especially in the context of its relevance to a bill currently before the House. I hope we do not see the muzzling of this type of research, commissioned by a Government body, happening again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u00223bad636f283e43ffa5a62501c3230368\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bad636f283e43ffa5a62501c3230368\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E The term \u201Cwelfare\u201D means many things to many people. Its origins emerged in responding to the needs of those in poverty. But over the years as material living standards have fallen, as income inequality has increased, and significant ethnic differences have arisen, we have witnessed the emergence of a disturbing new way of thinking around welfare. Ironically, at a time when compassion is most needed, we have seen the development of a new era where blaming the poor is seen in the idea of welfare dependency, and perceptions that the sick, the disabled, the poor are somehow the result of a moral turpitude, a laxity of values, and personal sloppiness. Instead of welfare being seen as the foundation of our modern State, it has become fashionable to speak disparagingly about those on income support. \u201CWelfare\u201D is becoming another pejorative term for describing the difference between the haves and the have-nots. \u201CBeneficiary\u201D has become the latest term of abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe Social Security Amendment Bill is motivated by this force of public hostility towards those of our citizens who require the support of social security. It is based not on the attainment of inclusive citizenship but on the relentless drive of welfare-to-work. Let me say from the outset that the M\u0101ori Party also shares a deep concern about the dependency mindset that is associated with modern-day welfare, but our concern is levelled not at the individuals and communities requiring protection from hardship; our concern is about the system that presumes it knows best about how people should live their lives, a system that appears to revel in removing hope, then victimising those from whom the hope has been removed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe think of the reforms of the 1980s, which promised much but have subsequently seen, in this decade, an increase in the incarceration rates, and plans to build more jails to incarcerate more people. Is that genuine progress? I think not. We will never shirk from the responsibility of caring for those whom the great poet James K Baxter referred to as \u201Cng\u0101 m\u014Dkai\u201D. In his poem \u201CHe Waiata m\u014D taku Tangi\u201D, he describes those who cling to our social periphery: the young, the alienated, the ostracised, the underprivileged, the long-term unemployed, those who have done a lag inside, people with mental illness, and M\u0101ori. We must not leave ng\u0101 m\u014Dkai in our trail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EIn the 16th century, the Protestant reformer John Bradford was burnt at the stake as a heretic. There is one particular incident involving Bradford that has passed down through the centuries. Whilst either seeing a beggar in his rags walking down the streets on a stormy night, or watching a criminal go to execution for his crimes, Bradford gave utterance to a humble observation that I think has bearing on this bill. He said: \u201CThere but for the grace of God go I.\u201D Whether the person he saw was a prisoner or a pauper is irrelevant; the philosophy of compassion, of support, of humility, remains. I absolutely identify with such an utterance, for as I reflect on my own youth, and as I see what has happened, and is still happening, to my people, I, like Bradford, would also be saying: \u201CThere but for the grace of God go I.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is absolutely convinced of the need to reform the social support system. We also endorse the vision of being able to reduce the number of people on a benefit, the numbers of people applying for a benefit, and the duration of the benefit received. But we must never forget that no one is immune from sickness or disability, from the trauma of divorce or death, and from the insecurity of a volatile labour market. We must never forget the effects of colonisation, of land, language, and the cultural deprivation that being in this Parliament reminds me of every day. These effects are played out on a regular basis at the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee as we listen to the experiences of our people as they attempt to get justice through the Treaty of Waitangi claims process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWhen I listened to the debate on the Te Roroa Claims Settlement Bill, I experienced, at the same moment, both anger and grief, and I wonder how much of what we are discussing today is really about a discussion of the whakapapa of deprivation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EMy co-leader, Tariana, was pilloried in some quarters for daring to mention the trauma suffered by our people as a result of colonisation\u2014trauma identified graphically by the Waitangi Tribunal in its Taranaki reports. Yet just this week I read an article by an Australian psychologist who stated that it was time Australia acknowledged the trauma suffered by its indigenous people, the results of which are vividly seen today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ESo we come to this day when we must not overlook the everyday reality of overcrowded and poor housing, longstanding difficulties in accessing health care, and the fact that people are being excluded from the full range of economic and social opportunities because of the grip of poverty. The M\u0101ori Party will safeguard the rights of New Zealanders to participate equitably in their own society\u2014to belong, no matter what. We believe in the rights of all citizens to be able to benefit from meaningful employment. We support, therefore, the commitment in the bill that people will be assisted to plan for work in the future and develop work-related skills. But we know also that people are more likely to stay in jobs that are meaningful, adequately paid, and are not inhibited by the constraints of institutional racism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe do not subscribe to the point of view that any work, however menial, is better than no paid work. We challenge any notion that forcing people into work in which the conditions and rates of pay leave a worker vulnerable is a good thing. We will, for example, be supporting Sue Bradford\u2019s age-discrimination bill, where 16 and 17-year-olds will receive the adult minimum wage. The Dunedin Community Law Centre described this bill as a shuffling of beneficiaries into low-paid, insecure work, which does not benefit individuals or society but simply allows employers to continue offering low wages and poor working conditions to those who have few alternatives. Well-being must not be compromised by the pressure of work at any cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe also oppose any situation by which the value of the vital unpaid work that underpins our society is denigrated. This is the work that our communities depend upon\u2014voluntary work, looking after our children, our sick, our elderly, our needy. The submission from the Child Poverty Action Group highlighted that this bill further entrenches the divide between deserving and undeserving children\u2014a surprising key feature of the Working for Families package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe noted also the views of Dr Susan St John and Dr Louise Humpage that this bill \u201Cpunishes those who can\u2019t find work.\u201D, and requires a new pre-benefit activity to be completed before anyone is even eligible for the unemployment benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThese concerns are also raised by the ordinary New Zealanders who have contacted our offices, fearing that the distinction between the ill, the impaired, and the healthy is becoming increasingly blurred in order to categorise more people as fit for work. They have shared their anxieties that people are being forced to seek work who are not well enough to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe issue of social security and participation is fundamental to the advancement of our nation. We know too well that social cohesion is being seriously undermined by the oppression of poverty. We know too well the marginalisation of ng\u0101 m\u014Dkai\u2014New Zealanders who are prevented from being able to participate equitably in their own society. We worry also about the stories we have heard of sole parents being harassed into paid work to the detriment of their tamariki and their wh\u0101nau well-being. We know that M\u0101ori are targeted in such an approach, and that sickness and invalids beneficiaries are suffering inordinate stress to comply with new requirements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe serious challenge before this House must be to alleviate the poverty of our poorest families. We must urgently address the unacceptably low family incomes. We must also invest in quality care for the children of working parents. The problems facing our nation are not wrapped up in an exclusive package called \u201Cbenefit dependency\u201D. We in the M\u0101ori Party do not want to end in a policy cul-de-sac\u2014a no-end street in which society has run out of options. We must address the low incomes and low wages, the pervasive racism of welfare reform demonstrated by specifically targeting M\u0101ori beneficiaries, the folly of targeting sickness and invalids beneficiaries\u2014pushing them into work when they are not well or ready\u2014and the failure of the certainty that meaningful, adequately paid, secure employment is available. We cannot support this bill, and we will continue to place pressure on the Government that it is essential that the whole sum of issues situated around the tribe of ng\u0101 m\u014Dkai must be seen as of the highest order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u002241f91bd2f7b846229786e96574e29be4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241f91bd2f7b846229786e96574e29be4\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I find it very hard to believe that the old Opposition will not be supporting a bill that introduces a strong work focus for beneficiaries who are fit and able to be engaged. If this was a blanket provision that required all beneficiaries to be work focused, then objections would be fair, but, as I have signalled in earlier speeches, this bill creates three very separate sets of expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe first is work support, and it is geared towards those on the unemployment benefit; it requires them to be actively engaged in finding work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe second set of expectations\u2014separate from the first\u2014is for those who cannot work now, but who are likely in the future to be able to work. Therefore, this set of expectations accepts the limitations of the moment, but it acknowledges that work is a possibility for the future, and that consideration could be given to that now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe third, and separate, set of expectations articulated in this bill is of community support for those for whom there are no expectations of their ever being in paid employment, but for whom the Government recognises that Work and Income has responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThese three sets of expectations are able to be tailored to the clients\u2014to the clients\u2019 needs and to the clients\u2019 potential\u2014without demanding unfair or unrealistic outcomes from clients who have high and complex needs. In regard to those with high health needs or severe limitations, the expectations of this bill are actually placed at the feet of the Government. This amendment requires the Government to proactively work to make sure that clients are resourced to participate as fully as possible in community activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EBeneficiaries, like all New Zealanders, should receive their income because they meet expectations. If people are unemployed, then we expect them to be doing all that they can to secure employment. If people are unwell, then we expect them to pursue recovery. If people are disabled, then we expect them to discover their potential and to seek support, so that that potential is realised. If people are receiving income as a parent in order to parent, we expect that they are focused on the well-being of their children, and we expect them to actively consider their future employment options so that at the appropriate time they can transition into paid employment. Work and Income can no longer leave this expectation to chance. Are these expectations unfair? Are these expectations onerous? Are these expectations achievable? And how does the political right justify to their voters their opposition to improving expectations that underpin the work ethic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003ECrucial to the success of this bill is the front-line role of Work and Income case managers. This bill places huge responsibility on them. I have particular concerns for those working in the provincial centres with more limited work, training, and community options to offer their clients. There are stories floating around of clients with disabilities being asked to consider employment and training options that are completely unrealistic and, therefore, extremely stressful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003ESo the professional training and supervision of front-line staff is what this bill relies on. They are both the strength and the potential weakness of its implementation. United Future supports the third reading, but we do want to signal to the Labour-led Government that we will take an active interest in the role of case managers, and the ongoing training that they must receive, so that expectations expressed to clients are done so in a positive, rather than in a punitive, tone. We believe that this bill moves in the right direction, and we are happy to support its third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba2597b3d1e64f65a1461b74330cd48c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba2597b3d1e64f65a1461b74330cd48c\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the third reading of the Social Security Amendment Bill. Yesterday, when we were in the Committee stage, I looked at the history of the bill, which originates from the Social Security Act 1938. In 1938 they used such phrases as: \u201Cbenefit designed to safeguard the people of New Zealand from disabilities\u201D and \u201Cprovide a system where medical and hospital treatment will be made available.\u201D The intention of the 1938 Act was to provide all those New Zealanders who were unable to look after themselves with a safety net to help with disabilities, such as ageing, sickness, widowhood, and unemployment. Its intended use was for those New Zealanders who were vulnerable or down on their luck. This is still relevant in 2007. It is important that there is always a safety net available for those people who need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe 2007 Social Security Amendment Bill is legislating for what most New Zealanders presumed Work and Income was already doing; that is, helping their fellow New Zealanders into work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E The general policy statement at the beginning of the explanatory note of this bill states: \u201CIt puts into effect the Working New Zealand: Work-Focused Support package of proposals to reform the social security support system.\u201D It has such objectives as to \u201Cincrease opportunities for people to participate in the labour market, where work is an appropriate outcome;\u201D. The fact that we now use phrases like \u201Cincrease opportunities\u201D and \u201Cwhere work is an appropriate outcome\u201D, I think, waters down what social security is actually about. Now we have an acceptance that some of the people on a benefit are there through their own choice. They choose not to work, because they know that the Government will continue to pay them to stay at home and to do what they want to do with their time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EMy colleague Anne Tolley talked yesterday about a packing house in her electorate that employed people from Work and Income to do seasonal work. Many of these workers, after the novelty of working wore off, made the decision that they no longer needed to go to work every day\u2014in fact, for many days in a row. Did they just wake up one day and decide they did not want to go to work, and wake up the next day and decide they did not want to go to work? The packing house then became short-staffed. It could not meet its deadlines and deliverables. The business was then put at risk because of the limited workforce\u2014if there was a workforce at all\u2014and because people decided they did not want to come to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EBut what is the consequence for the workers of their decisions, and what does this bill do in terms of consequences for those decisions? I would say it does very little. If we look at the 45 grants, allowances, and benefits that are available to those people, we will see, I am sure, that their families will not be put at risk for making the decision not to work. When we look at what they could be entitled to, we see that under the costs of the working category the beneficiary could be entitled to the new employment transition grant, the recoverable assistance grant, the work start grant, temporary additional support, the Pathways payment, the seasonal work assistance payment, a childcare subsidy, and an out-of-school care and recreation subsidy. That is eight grants and subsidies\u2014support payments\u2014to get them to go to work. If those people leave their jobs, they could be entitled to special-needs grants, temporary additional support, a recoverable assistance payment, or advance payment of benefit. Apparently, the status of people in that situation is that of an emergency, and they need immediate assistance because they have decided not to go to work. All in all, they can be entitled to 12 grants. I wonder what assistance such employers get, given that their orders are cancelled and their produce rots.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EIs this bill really about work first, as it claims to be? Is this bill about safeguarding New Zealanders from disability, or has it gone too far? In many cases now, we have intergenerational beneficiaries. People have made the choice not to work, and the Government just keeps on supporting them. This bill, through its weak objectives and expectations, is taking away from some New Zealanders their independence of the State and their ability to stand on their own two feet. The legislation will no longer provide the invaluable safety net that it once did, or that it once intended to. It is now a level of interference in people\u2019s lives. It is even an excuse. Instead of just getting on and living, people are now justifying to a Government agency what they are doing, how they are doing it, and where they are doing it. We need to let these people take responsibility for themselves. We oppose this bill because it is legislating for what most New Zealanders presumed Work and Income already did: to help get New Zealanders into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EStatistics show that sickness and invalids benefits have risen under Labour. There is a distinct switch from the unemployment benefit on to the sickness benefit and invalids benefit\u201430,000 in the last 7 years. According to the Minister David Benson-Pope, 20 percent of people signing up to the sickness and invalids benefits should not be there. What are we doing for that 20 percent who should be in work? They are able-bodied people, who should be entering the labour force. The labour force is screaming out for workers. There is no better time than now to go and get work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThis morning I was talking to somebody in the hospitality industry who is currently lobbying the Government to bring immigrants in to take up jobs that the industry is trying to fill, such as bar and waitress jobs, cleaning jobs, and jobs that are not highly skilled. It is not highly paid work, but it is still work. These jobs need to be filled. They could be filled by those New Zealanders who are happy to stay at home and receive a benefit, when we know they are able-bodied. The Minister said that 20 percent of those who sign up to sickness and invalids benefits should not be doing so, and that they can actually work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EOne of the main flaws of the subsequent changes made to the bill is to remove from the sanctions provision the requirement for a person to undertake \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D. In fact, these changes will lessen the ability of the bill to remove barriers to employment. The requirement for a person in terms of a personal development and employment plan should have to be fulfilled, regardless of the source of that activity. I will give a typical example of how this is flawed. A beneficiary states in the personal development plan that he or she wishes to be a social worker. The only provider of social workers in the town is a church. The beneficiary therefore puts this provider in the development plan. Because that provider is a not-for-profit organisation, it falls under the definition of \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D. The beneficiary does not have to turn up or even explain why he or she does not fulfil that part of the personal development plan. There is absolutely no consequence for the beneficiary not taking those actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWhat has the personal development plan achieved and what does the beneficiary take away from this process? There is no need to fulfil the requirement of a plan, and there are no consequences for not fulfilling the plan. It is possible to beat the system, because there is a flaw in this bill. People think they do not have to do what they are told to do in order to receive something. So what job satisfaction is there for Work and Income staff who are developing and implementing these personal development plans? There is none. They cannot be enforced, so why do they do them? In the eyes of those staff this must be frustrating, and it must reduce their job satisfaction, which is fundamental to keeping qualified staff. If this legislation is to be effective in any way whatsoever, it comes down to implementation of the staff. We need to ensure that the staff have good job satisfaction and have \u201Cteethy\u201D things they can work with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWe oppose this bill because we know that the legislation is still flawed. I will give members another example. The introduction of a pre-benefit requirement to undertake a work-related activity, if directed to do so by the chief executive, will apparently strengthen the job search service. It should mean that Work and Income will be able to direct a person to a work-related activity, immediately. Unfortunately, the flaw lies in the fact that it is not compulsory to do so. The beneficiary has to do this only if he or she is requested to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThis legislation focuses more on work first. Most New Zealanders would assume that work first was always the mentality of Work and Income, but unfortunately that is not the case. We acknowledge that this legislation is making steps in the right direction, but let us get those steps right, and, where there are obvious flaws, let us fix them now. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e691fa2b530c480fa8733c3e8fe5a15e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Security Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cafd5ea43499422d8c8181e8c5456964\u0022\u003EState-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a5259c6d52304a9798f94a6d7d86eb68\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00223d1b74096b7b4f43b0d1f3471ad82bf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d1b74096b7b4f43b0d1f3471ad82bf5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill be now read a third time. The purpose of this bill is twofold: firstly, to permit a merger of AgriQuality and Asure, provided that shareholding Ministers are satisfied that it makes commercial and strategic sense for New Zealand; and, secondly, to allow shareholding Ministers to direct the board of AgriQuality not to provide examination services as defined in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EFirst, I would like to get a few facts straight following some interesting and slightly misguided comments made in the Committee last night. They related to when the bill was before the Commerce Committee and the undertaking by Trevor Mallard, the Minister for State Owned Enterprises, to provide Gordon Copeland with a draft Supplementary Order Paper for his consideration. After the necessary advice was received from officials on Mr Copeland\u2019s suggested wording, the draft Supplementary Order Paper was provided to him for consideration. Mr Copeland was promised a copy of the draft Supplementary Order Paper for his consideration and this was indeed done. It is unfortunate that Mr Copeland considered that the provisions in the Supplementary Order Paper did not meet his expectations. However, the provisions clearly met the expectations of Mr Copeland\u2019s former party, United Future, which voted for the bill last night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI am pleased to report that good progress has been made in developing the business case for the merger. A working-group established to assess the potential merger of AgriQuality and Asure recently concluded that there is a robust, strategic rationale for the merger. Significant, quantifiable gains are expected from a merger, derived mainly from scale and scope economies and enhanced biosecurity capability. Although the merger is still subject to Cabinet approval and the passage of the bill into law, a strong prima facie case has been established for the merger to proceed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe second objective permits shareholding Ministers to direct AgriQuality not to provide examination services, and a number of concerns were raised in the select committee. The most significant concern raised in submissions was that by reducing the prospect of competition in the provision of export red meat inspection services, the bill could result in higher prices and lower service levels than would otherwise be the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper adopted last night addresses these concerns. The first addition to the bill, Subpart 3 of Part 2, requires the Commerce Commission to investigate and report on the prices charged for examination services, within 3 years of the commencement of the Act. The second addition, Subpart 4 of Part 2, provides for the Crown to continue its negotiation with international trading partners to permit examination services to be undertaken by agencies other than the Crown. Further, in future, if more than two-thirds, by value, of New Zealand\u2019s red meat exports are made to international trading partners that accept international guidelines on meat hygiene, as set out in the Codex code of hygienic practice for meat, then the Government will permit private provision of examination services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I am confident that these common-sense amendments have gone a long way to addressing any concerns raised about the bill. This bill is critical for maintaining and enhancing shareholder value in AgriQuality and Asure, companies owned by the Crown on behalf of all New Zealanders. It has the added benefit of improving New Zealand\u2019s biosecurity response capability at a time when New Zealand is becoming increasingly at risk from incursions. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb7a4a2cf1ce4c2c8ab6d0e086812d71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb7a4a2cf1ce4c2c8ab6d0e086812d71\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E The State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill is another kick in the guts for New Zealand farmers. I am surprised that, for a bill that is so important to New Zealand agriculture, a junior Minister, Clayton Cosgrove, has been sent to the House to do the third reading speech on behalf of the Government. I do not think I can recall a contribution at all on this legislation, through the first reading, the second reading, or the Committee stage, by our current Minister of Agriculture, the Hon Jim Anderton. I do not think he has made a contribution at all on this important legislation, which, again, will land heavy costs on our meat producers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIf one had to describe the bill correctly, one would say it was a bill designed by the unions for the unions\u2014a bill designed by the unions for the unions. I said last night in the House, during the Committee stage, that I found it ironic, to say the least, that in the very week the legislation had been originally introduced into Parliament, coincidentally, the Labour Party suddenly found the $850,000 that it had taken from taxpayers in the last election. I raised that point, and Maryan Street accused me of being very improper even to suggest it. So I went back through the submission process and found a very close linkage between the Public Service Association (PSA) and this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ELet me start with a submission from the Meat Industry Association. I guess the first point I should note is the comments made by Bill Falconer, the chair of the Meat Industry Association and a person who has a reputation in New Zealand and overseas as having championed the interests of New Zealand meat producers. Mr Falconer had this to say to the select committee: \u201CI have to say that in 47 years I\u2019ve been in and around Government, I have never seen a major trade organisation be treated so shabbily.\u201D The background to those very strong comments from Mr Falconer is the fact that this legislation, or the concept of this legislation, was first made known to the Meat Industry Association, not by the Minister of Agriculture\u2014not in fact by any Minister of the Crown\u2014but by none other than the PSA when it requested a meeting with the Meat Industry Association. At that meeting, which took place in July last year, the PSA told the industry that a merger between Asure and AgriQuality would take place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe PSA then confirmed that stance in an email sent to all PSA members in Asure, dated 22 June 2006, and signed by Keith Gutsell and Ian Baldick, who I presume are senior executives of the PSA. In that email they stated: \u201CIn recent meetings between the PSA and Government Ministers, the Prime Minister, and the NZFSA, the PSA has been informed that the Government will promulgate Government policy stating meat inspection is to be done only by the Government and delivered by one Government agency, Asure.\u201D The email goes on to state: \u201CMake no mistake, this is a major turn-round of direction and delivers far better professional and secure meat inspection services for the future.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe industry, on hearing these comments and receiving a copy of that email, then wrote to the Minister of Agriculture and requested a meeting. The Minister of Agriculture refused to meet with the Meat Industry Association, because he was not prepared to face its members and discuss the implications of the legislation. So what we find is that, coincidental with the sudden payment by the Labour Party of the $850,000, in comes this legislation, which in effect removes any potential\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222de26447cb214c348c8b8584345820b6\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek your guidance on this, but I consider that implication to be improper. I look to you to tell me some Standing Order under which I might claim that, because that comment should not be repeated in this House. It is improper, it is unworthy, and it is untrue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279e397a4f0a54f37a4dcdd72bd1ba4b7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has made a clear implication, and he will stand, withdraw, and apologise. It is not acceptable to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e25a514af6ba4220b505ed964fd4f4fa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8dec10a50564c8c92bd4de221844139\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have ruled on it. A member has raised a point of order, an implication was made, and I ask the member to stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222063b018d66141e4b459466b5cee5b4b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022862362e1086e49ada4c5d4bb155f1f12\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: And apologise. I asked you to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aca1376cb20f4e56ac6e49a8eaa07dd0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022523fddb78f0d401ba64f65a928a810cb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a39ddd1cafe4df789664cd4f0c97a26\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I was saying before I was interrupted by the point of order that there is a clear association and a clear track from the PSA announcing this legislation to the industry and, subsequent to that, the legislation coming before the House almost 12 months later. That, I think, has been a very, very sad state of affairs; this very important industry has been treated as though it were almost irrelevant. There is no paper trail as to why the PSA demanded this legislation. Suffice it to say, it had demanded it for a long period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIn the debate yesterday in the House, Maryan Street made the point that there had not been any competition because AgriQuality had not entered into meat inspection services, and therefore there were no complaints before the select committee about the current cost charged by Asure, which, of course, is on-charged to the farming industry. I say to Ms Street that there has not been any difficulty around the fees because there has been the potential for that competition. But this legislation completely removes the potential for competition, and, mark my words, cost increases will follow. That is the very reason that the PSA has campaigned very, very successfully, for reasons unknown to me, and has achieved its desired result with the passing of this legislation today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI want to pick up on the process at the select committee. Initially, Gordon Copeland was supportive of the National Party\u2019s position of opposing outright this legislation. But United Future\u2014of which he was a member at the time\u2014took a degree of comfort from the promise of a Supplementary Order Paper being delivered to the House that would satisfy some of the concerns around the potential for offering alternative meat inspection services into the future. Supplementary Order Paper 120 was finally presented by the Minister for State Owned Enterprises, Mr Mallard, and in it we saw nothing but a sop. There is no way at all that that Supplementary Order Paper will deliver contestable meat inspection services within the next 50 years, unless the legislation is changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWhat the Supplementary Order Paper does contain is an instruction that the Commerce Commission must, within 3 years, investigate the cost of meat inspection services to ascertain whether they are fair and reasonable. What I find incredible is that the Government, having kicked the farming community in the guts, delivers yet another huge kick and says that the farmers must pay for the cost of work done by the Commerce Commission. If ever a Labour Government wanted to fall foul of the farming industry, then this one is doing a superb job of that today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EA Supplementary Order Paper put forward in my name gave the Animal Health Board the ability to cancel contracts it had already assigned, if a merger occurred. The board has successfully been able to get very competitive pricing under the arrangement whereby two State-owned enterprises provide that service\u2014namely, AgriQuality and Asure. What happens now is that the contracts the Animal Health Board has entered into are not allowed to be completed, because the Minister specifically removes that requirement today, in the legislation. That, again, will mean the immediate passing of about $2 million of costs on to the farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EFinally, there was a very small glimmer of hope of an amendment put forward by Eric Roy to involve Meat and Wool New Zealand in that consultation process being successful. Again, I understood that there had been agreement. I accept that there is some confusion about whether there had been; I accept Darren Hughes\u2019 word on that. That amendment offered a little chance to achieve some fairness in this dreadful legislation, but, again, Trevor Mallard used his numbers to make sure that we got no satisfaction with that amendment, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIt is a sad day to see the Government forcing through the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill. I am surprised that New Zealand First has not taken a more genuine interest in this legislation and acknowledged the effect that it will have on our farming community, but, mark my words, as we campaign towards the 2008 election I will take every opportunity to point this matter out to our farming friends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e376023f4ab046f1a099b8044103049a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e376023f4ab046f1a099b8044103049a\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First supports the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill. We have taken a very close interest in this bill. In supporting it, we believe that rather than supporting an illusory prospect of competition, we are supporting a real move to bring down the cost of the delivery of a service by amalgamating two companies, thus making them more efficient, in what is proposed to be one unit shortly. If true competition does not exist, then we must look at the costs of the monopoly provider, if we want to call it that, and make sure that those costs are as low as possible. That is what is being done here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EMr Carter and the National Party say, because of some conspiracy theory they have about the Public Service Association, that costs will increase and that the usual\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f16b2567b92d4cea98a9baeca4a0c154\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the Brethren.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae5c27a50404901b4413aab95f8ef30\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not the Exclusive Brethren in this case, actually. The Exclusive Brethren come along at election time to help out; they are not interested in this sort of stuff. This is the grunt end of the business. Mr Carter said that costs will rise. Well, I think that he and everybody else know\u2014I certainly know\u2014that the cost of building will rise, too, as will the cost of registering a motorcar and a whole lot of other things. But that is not because of a secret deal that has been done with the Public Service Association. Unions have always been a big part of the meat industry, just as they have been a big part of the shipping industry and of other major industries around New Zealand. There is nothing unique in that, nothing new in it, and nothing untoward in it, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EMr Carter also said that at the election he will go around and talk to farmers about New Zealand First\u2019s part in this legislation, and I hope that he does that. I hope that he talks to farmers a lot about New Zealand First. I hope he talks about New Zealand First\u2019s support for a tax reduction in the last Budget\u2014a tax reduction that was voted against by the National Party. In fact, I could not believe this myself at the time of the last election, but I am told it is true that the last time the National Party actually had a tax reduction rather than just talking about it\u2014and it ran the whole election campaign about this issue last time and was assisted by the Exclusive Brethren in doing so\u2014was back in 1966. A young man like Minister Cosgrove would not even be able to remember 1966; he would have been interested in other things then. He would have had the hormones running hot in those days, and the last thing on his mind would have been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed20c281e74c47d5a3f833eb363ddd61\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a very good speech and I do not want to interrupt the member\u2019s flow, but I have to say that I was not born in 1966. The hormones were not flowing at that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223656dc1d774a462d89fb3a31a7ea1e4f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member taking exception?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231bc4f7207d44e048876f8131ecfa020\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: No, not at all. I just thought I would help the member out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022444636c7950f43ad8ffe7ccf89359429\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022474920dc77f94c9e8d214ae06eb600d0\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister just wanted to point out a few things, such as that a rush of blood to the head of a young man is accepted by most of us as being possible, I am sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EThe matters provided for in this bill are serious issues. We take them seriously in New Zealand First, and we will not run around casting aspersions on other parties when it comes to these things. In this programme we are talking about farmers. New Zealand First is conscious of the costs that are placed on farming. We are conscious that farming is always a difficult business. It is at the sharp end of exporting. Farmers cannot pass their costs on to anybody else. They have to compete against subsidised products in our overseas markets. They do it, and they do it well\u2014we understand that. I can tell the House and anybody who cares to listen that I have farmed and my brothers have farmed, all three of them, under various regimes and under various Governments. Some of the hardest times in farming in New Zealand have been under a National Government. That is a fact; it is an absolute fact. So I think that the National Party speakers should get off that bandwagon and get on to something that I know they are capable of, which is addressing the issue and talking about things in a non-partisan manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EWhat the National members do not tell us in their speeches is that the Governments of the countries that we export to insist on a sign-off for meat inspections by a Government or a Government agency. They do not want to know about a private operator doing the job. In fact, Minister Mallard has said that if two-thirds of those countries are prepared to accept a private operator, then that can be made to happen. But those countries do not accept it. The Chinese do not want it. There are a billion people right there. The Americans do not want it. How many is that? Is it 250 million or more? The Australians do not want it. [Interruption] There are 300 million people in America. The Europeans do not want it. So who wants it? I will tell members who wants it. The National Party wants some sort of illusory competition. Do members know why that is? So that the National members can satisfy themselves\u2014and never mind about the farmers. The National members like to talk big to farmers, but they do not want to deliver to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EWe are happy to support this bill, and we are happy to see that at least an attempt is being made by the Government to lower the costs to the industry through this merger. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002286d68c3291794a54a1ef2727ddcd0a66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286d68c3291794a54a1ef2727ddcd0a66\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E The debate we are having today is the third reading of the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill. This is a bill that, if passed after the conclusion of its third reading, will eliminate the competition element from the assurance that we give our meat products in the international market, and it will also eliminate the competition out of certain elements of pest and vector control in New Zealand. The National Party has, through the course of the process of this bill\u2014its first reading, the select committee consideration, and the Committee stage in this House last evening\u2014expressed a number of serious concerns. The principal question we have asked in each case is why it is necessary to have this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI note that the explanatory note states: \u201CThe Government wishes to prevent this competition from occurring as it considers that it would result in a net cost to the Crown \u2026\u201D. There are two elements of that that I wish to explore. When delving into why that was the case, I found that the concern was that there could be a contingent liability about redundancy if one of these agencies took over some of the work from the other. We have been informed that in actual fact there is a contingency fund, should this occur. I understand there is $12 million in that fund. [Interruption] That is correct, and I thank Mr Guy. So why does the Government see a liability, when it has already acknowledged that there could be some inter-movement between two agencies in this area? I have to say that that has proven to be quite a nebulous issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EBut does the Government have any concern about where the costs might fall if competition is removed? They fall squarely on the shoulders of the producer. At a time when the sheep industry is under some stress about the prices it is receiving, should we load on to that industry another element of cost compliance by removing competition from what is a very important part of the process? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThat is the first point about this legislation. The case was not proven. The case to do this, the necessity to wipe out the competition, was not proven. I want to extend that a little. This legislation came into the House and has been processed but we have not been told, and were not told, of the process of the development of this legislation. Normally when the Government wants to do something that will advance a cause, it will put out a consultation paper. It will confer with the various players in the industry. My colleague the Hon David Carter related to the House the element of surprise of the major players, in terms of: \u201CHello? We were not consulted. We did not know.\u201D Again, it is the element of the fact that the case was not proven\u2014that, in fact, it was not necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI am delighted that during the Committee stage last night our concerns about the competition element were listened to, to some degree. I am not very happy about the solution the Minister put up in terms of requiring, after 3 years, a consideration of the competition element and having a trigger that can be effected by either the Minister of Commerce or the Meat Industry Association. That process completely eliminates the producers; they are not represented. I made the case last night that it was a little bit like the Boston Tea Party. The agency that pays for this is the producer, because the cost comes off the product at the end of the line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThere are a number of issues here that we believe are quite fundamental to the way in which we need to do business. It is interesting that a number of State-owned enterprises work in a competition model. This is really a debate about philosophy. We have a Labour-led Government that believes in regulation and we have a National Party, representing the farmers, which says that it believes in a competitive model. Every single element of the production, the selling, and the competition with other forms of protein is, in itself, a very, very intense competition. Then we are having a regulatory approach to quite a high cost in the whole chain of processing, validation, and assurance of that product. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EIt is of considerable concern to us in the National Party that this is going to increase costs. As I said earlier, those who will be paying do not have a mechanism by which they can force the Commerce Commission to have a look at this. Why would we set up a Commerce Commission to oversee and ensure quality of spending, and the best possible economic process by which these things can be done, if it is eliminated from giving this some scrutiny unless there is a trigger point? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWe are concerned about the absence of consultation. We are concerned about the fact that the case that this actually needed to be done was not proven. We believe, in principle, in competition giving us the best possible price. Right now we have a situation in the rural community where there is a significant shift in land use because it is perceived\u2014and at the moment it is real\u2014that there is a much higher return from other forms of pastoral farming: namely, dairying. I would have thought that this Government would have some consideration for dealing with the issues that improve the viability of an industry that is under some stress at the moment, instead of loading another cost on to it. I relate to the House that although Fonterra has been reasonably coy about the number of conversions in the pipeline, I am reliably informed that there will be 32 new conversions in the Southland province in this coming year, and another eight considerable extensions to existing property\u2014so some 40 properties have been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab0d04680f6d4aaab1ebaa05e9ed5368\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Who told you that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ab9f4f6deeb4bf790d38d8a8c5324c9\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: I can tell Mr Hughes that it is common knowledge, amongst those who know, that there is a significant shift. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI just want to say that that is for this year. I was informed last night that there are 86 inquiries for the following year. If this Government is espousing concern about increased dairying in relation to greenhouse gas management, climate change, or whatever its notions are, then it is important that there is some kind of competing tension in where land use might be, because it is too late to turn back the clock at a later stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI now want to address some comments made by Doug Woolerton in regard to who performs the assurance process. He claimed that no one in the world would accept anything other than a Government assurance in meat quality. But then we saw in the explanatory note of the Supplementary Order Paper that the Minister presented to the Committee last night that new Subpart 4 provides for the Crown to continue to negotiate with its international trading partners in order to allow animal material and animal products examination services to be provided by agencies other than the Crown. I repeat that the Government is negotiating to have that happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ESo then we have to ask why it would eliminate a competitive model where others can perform, while at the same time wiping out the opportunity. It is simply nonsensical. It is absolutely nonsensical that on the one hand the Government says that it will continue to chat to its trading partners about where it thinks this should go, but then, on the other hand, it locks in by statute a nil opportunity for that to take place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI conclude by saying that the assurance of the products we sell is important. That has not been a question raised in this process. The question is simply the most effective and cost-efficient way that this process can be achieved. This bill is a serious cost to the producer. Therefore, National will be voting against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u002272e998f969a44730af12430ef29479e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e998f969a44730af12430ef29479e9\u0022\u003EMARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise to speak in this debate, and, hopefully, to inject a few facts into some of the discussion. It seems to me that, in terms of the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill, the National Party is bent on defending the idea of competition, even though currently there is no competition in the area of meat inspection services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWhy is there no, or little, competition in this area? It is because our major trading partners who receive our meat products require the Government guarantee of quality and standards that is provided by the Food Safety Authority\u2019s accreditation of Asure New Zealand. That is how the process works. Our major trading contracts\u2014and I cite the United Kingdom and the United States in particular\u2014absolutely require a Government guarantee of quality. That guarantee has been vested in the Food Safety Authority, which is the accreditation body for Asure New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI want to make two points about the fact that the shareholding Ministers wish to prevent competition from occurring between two State-owned enterprises\u2014two State-owned enterprises that may merge at some point in the future, if that is considered to be the most efficient thing to do. First of all, as the previous speaker said, there was concern about a net cost to the Crown. An earlier speaker said that this liability was already provided for, and therefore should not be of concern to the shareholding Ministers. This side of the House takes a different view on how taxpayers\u2019 money ought to be spent. Because there may be provision for liability does not mean that that provision should be squandered or expended where such expenditure might be avoided. I would have thought that most taxpayers would get some kind of relief from the fact that the Government was behaving responsibly with their money and was not incurring additional cost if it could be avoided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EA second issue arises in respect of the admission of competition in this area. In the explanatory note that the previous speaker, Eric Roy, referred to, he will see that one of the reasons given was that it could result in a weakening of New Zealand\u2019s overall biosecurity response capability. What does that mean? Well, let me put it really simply for the Opposition. In the last decade or so we have seen outbreaks of such things as mad cow disease. There have been concerns about how nation States might best protect their biosecurity arrangements and make sure their response to biosecurity threats could be as swift and effective as possible. If that capability and that response are to be spread across two organisations rather than one, then there is a further risk of complication, which will slow down a response\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8726b9bbde14443ae5dd77ecc877a7f\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5cc82db951c4b20a38a6f78885b08f2\u0022\u003EMARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: Because, I say to that member opposite, if we have two systems operating, it stands to reason that it is likely to take twice as long to respond adequately, and to ensure that the processes surrounding the inspection of our meat products are as pristine and as comprehensive as they possibly can be. Why would a country have two ways of doing things, if it could have one way of doing things? Why would we have two ways of protecting our biosecurity and the quality of our export product, if we could have one? That one way of doing things has been proven to be perfectly efficient and more than acceptable. In fact, it is in the higher ranks of these kinds of provisions and protections in the world, and, therefore, New Zealand\u2019s reputation in producing meat products of this kind has been second to none. It has been extremely high, because the quality of our inspection services is high and is not threatened by the idea that competition will produce a better result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EQuite frequently, we have seen in other areas of endeavour examples of competition producing the cutting of corners; competition in order to drive down the price of something causes corners to be cut. This is one area where New Zealand cannot afford to have that happen. So, on two counts, the introduction of competition between two State-owned enterprises does not stack up. It does not stack up and it makes no sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ESecondly, I want to address the issue of consultation with the New Zealand Meat Industry Association. Certainly, as the Hon David Carter said earlier, the Meat Industry Association spoke in very strong terms to the select committee. I was present. I am not sure that that member was, but I certainly was present at the select committee when the Meat Industry Association appeared before us, and the issue was certainly spoken of in very strong terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EBut I draw the attention of the members opposite to Supplementary Order Paper 120 in the name of Trevor Mallard, which was passed by the Committee last night. It specifically allows for consultation between the Minister of Commerce and the Meat Industry Association on the examination of services provided by meat inspection services\u2014currently provided by Asure New Zealand. That is now written into the legislation. So the Meat Industry Association now has a legislative function, in agreement with the Minister of Commerce, in the provisions that allow the Commerce Commission to investigate and report on examination services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe Hon David Carter has been throwing wild assertions around, and I think we need to come back to the facts and the words on the pages of this legislation, which obviously provides a role for the Meat Industry Association. The National Opposition has been opposing this legislation on the absolute slimmest of pretexts. I would love to be in front of an audience where the Hon David Carter tries to explain why the National Party opposed providing the most efficient and the most secure system for the retention of quality meat inspection services and the maintenance of New Zealand\u2019s reputation among its trading partners in the supply of meat product.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00225277514b85894e929e12af68fab70297\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225277514b85894e929e12af68fab70297\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party has had somewhat mixed feelings about this bill, but we do agree with the previous speaker, and with Doug Woolerton, that competition in the area of meat inspection is not necessarily beneficial. It can easily drive down the quality of the product and make it difficult to ensure that there is not some damage to, or disease in, the meat that is sent to market. When the previous speaker spoke on the question of whether competition is always good, my friend Doug Woolerton yelled out \u201CAir New Zealand\u201D, and I think that is a case in point. The wages and conditions of workers at Air New Zealand were driven down as a response by Air New Zealand to competition, and I am scared that there will be a driving down of quality and a driving down of the conditions of workers if competition is allowed in this case, even though it would be between two State-owned enterprises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIf we look at the meat industry, we see that that has happened a lot in the past. I used to work in the meat industry for a few years, and the workers were pretty regularly under attack as there was competition between the meat companies for product\u2014beef, mutton, and lamb\u2014coming in from the farmers. The competition was often based on driving down the wages of workers. I think the Public Service Association, which covers many of the workers in meat inspection, is worried as well that that will happen if there is competition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EEric Roy talked about the problems the meat industry is having at the present time. That is true; meat prices have been down. We read articles in the papers about PPCS being in a difficult position, in debt, and things like that. We can see that that is a situation where, if there is a competitive environment in meat inspection, the meat companies might put pressure on these competing meat inspection services to come forward with a lower price. How would that be achieved? It would be achieved by putting the meat through more quickly, with less quality in inspection, and perhaps with lower wages for the staff involved. The lower the wages go, the less skilled the workers are, and then there are problems. As indicated before, it is quite important, if we are to provide guarantees and to coordinate with others around the world in terms of preserving safety in food standards and preventing diseases from going around the world and perhaps taking hold in New Zealand, to have a real quality inspection system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe reason why the Greens have mixed feelings on this legislation is that one of the problems in merging these two State-owned enterprises is that we then have a monopoly State-owned enterprise and we do not necessarily think that that is the best form of organisation for a monopoly. We would favour a Crown-owned entity where, at least, there is more openness, more ability for the Government to step in, and where there will not be purely commercial criteria operating. We have seen the problem with some State-owned enterprises recently. For example, the Solid Energy State-owned enterprise has gone really over the top in spying on protesters. The Minister Trevor Mallard had to criticise Solid Energy for putting spies in protest groups. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe have had other cases where State-owned enterprises have got a little bit out of control; New Zealand Post went a little bit funny for a while. The Green Party position is that a Crown-owned entity would be a better model. Quality can be preserved with a publicly owned service; we saw that for years when the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry inspectors were running the show. The ministry was, in essence, a monopoly. We had very good meat inspection through that service. That is the background we are working from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI know how easy it is to lower quality; I have worked on the chain and I have worked as a meat grader, and I know that meat can be pushed through a bit too fast. The meat might not be graded properly or the meat inspectors might let certain diseases through by not paying sufficient attention. So I think it is important that we have the quality guaranteed by a transparent public body and, as was indicated, public bodies are recognised around the world, too. People want a Government sign-off internationally when we export our meat and do not want to be reliant on a private agency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt is good that there was that Supplementary Order Paper to add in a role for the Commerce Commission; that gives some control over the situation. But the Green Party would certainly prefer a Crown-owned entity. Therefore, rather than vote for the bill, the party has decided to abstain to make the point that it thinks there is not enough openness in the system when it is a State-owned enterprise. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1dc081170604e3d998c0db40bc6d2e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1dc081170604e3d998c0db40bc6d2e6\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker, kia ora t\u0101tou e te Whare. Me moe t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei w\u0101!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Deputy Speaker, and greetings to us in the House. We should go to sleep now!]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to hear what some of the other parties think about this bill. Some have called it pandering to the Public Service Association (PSA), hush money for supporting political power, and a reward to the unions for helping to pay off Labour\u2019s overspending, and others say all it will do is to destroy competition. All of that seems to be worlds away from the reality of meat inspection and from the working lives of\u2014there used to be thousands; I do not know whether there still are\u2014people who work in the meat industry, and from major iwi interests in many successful sheep and cattle farming enterprises. Today the M\u0101ori Party would like to focus on the impact this bill will have on the M\u0101ori farming sector, on the implications of a possible merger of AgriQuality and Asure New Zealand, and on whether opening up the meat inspection services to competition will actually enhance their quality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWe know that only people employed by the Crown can be meat inspectors, and we have to ask what is wrong with that. Does is really matter if there is no competition for meat inspection services? There is a suggestion to open up tendering for the inspection services to the private sector. I have to ask why we would do that, when nearly all of our trading partners insist\u2014for obvious reasons\u2014that any of our meat is Government-approved, and when the inspection services are set up in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWe are happy that the Commerce Commission is to review the cost of those services and that the commission will report on whether their prices are in line with the Commerce Act. But I would signal a note of caution about that, because last week we saw an excellent example of what happens when independent bodies report back to the Government on things that it may not want to hear. I am talking here, of course, of the Waitangi Tribunal. It tabled two reports that were critical of the Government\u2019s flawed processes, incompetent officials, and divisive tactics, to which the Minister responded with typical ministerial non-enthusiasm. That was hardly the proactive response the tribunal was looking for, so we are not holding out very much hope that the reaction will be any different here. That is not to take anything away from the quality of the work being done by the Commerce Commission, chaired by the excellent Paula Rebstock, the New Zealand Herald\u2019s 2006 New Zealander of the Year. We have no doubt that the commission will not shirk from the challenge of reviewing the cost of the services. But, as with the tribunal, the issue is not about how good its reporting is, how sound its recommendations are, or how substantial its findings are, but about whether the Government wants to hear the message.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E We also note a submission from the chairman of the Meat Industry Association, which stated that it was stunned that the Government could take such a profound decision without consultation with it, and that the PSA should have been given or assumed the task of briefing the industry. So we are happy to see that the association will have a say as to whether the investigation and review procedures will take place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis is an important bill, and this is an important industry, which markets more than $5 billion of meat exports each year\u2014fully 17 percent of all our exports. M\u0101ori are key players in this industry, and we believe that it is in their interests, and in the best interests of the nation, that key quality controls, assurance processes, and standards are adhered to in the meat inspection services. On those grounds, the M\u0101ori Party will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00222dd9c89573014dd9bd11bf99f5695bef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dd9c89573014dd9bd11bf99f5695bef\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill. It is a complete nonsense bill\u2014complete nonsense! I was here for the first and second readings, and I sat here and listened throughout the Committee stage, and I have heard all of the excuses from the other side of the House. Those excuses do not sit easily with us on this side of the House. When one thinks about it, one realises that competition is a good thing. We should not be scared of competition; we should embrace it. I cannot see how this bill will actually achieve very much at all. Costs are going to go up at the farm gate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a9b4505f1ce445b9dfe6792302c69f5\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248a1940c3f224e91a541a29bb548e399\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aec293ac4dbd4bfcbef3541ec5a73b41\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0f825efcb1e4df5b20e01b74d747343\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: They absolutely are. For the Minister to sit here and gibe at me yesterday that any potential redundancies will cause $10 million\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f381c1e9ece7404db4eb5443490df14b\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I wasn\u2019t here yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249be1d5cc4644c1295ff1eb7f7f108ce\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister for State Owned Enterprises. The contingency of $12 million is already sitting on Asure\u2019s books, so what a feeble excuse that is. I remind the House that the contribution of agriculture to this economy is huge. It is forecast to be over $9 billion next year, yet red meat producers will cop the backlash of this bill\u2014the dairy farmers, the beef farmers, and the sheep farmers, who right now are really struggling. They are struggling against the high, soaring Kiwi dollar, and against costs imposed in this House that often affect their business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to see that one of the big Budget bids of the Minister of Agriculture is a $1 million talkfest summit. I wonder whether that will solve the problems we have in the rural community. I will wait and see. When sheep farmers are up against it, the big-spending Minister of Agriculture, Jim Anderton, is out there proposing a $1 million talkfest summit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIn thinking about this bill, I say it is interesting that the Hon David Carter produced a document yesterday in the Committee stage that showed that the deal on this bill was done with the biggest union, the New Zealand Public Service Association (PSA), back in July 2006. It makes a mockery of the submission process, does it not, when the deal on this bill was done with that union back in July 2006.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThis bill has also been a real rush job. There were nine submitters, and most of them were against the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022043417beb7364a69a09e0442b1cffb3a\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: You just said that the deal was done in 2006. That\u2019s almost a year ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229956f5d5a9424c7da8f1e0b09f7c07dd\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Bill Falconer, the chair of the Meat Industry Association, has been around this place for a long time\u2014about as long as Mr Woolerton from New Zealand First has. He said that never before had the association been treated so shabbily by a Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad8954e4e87d41d3a985e9e47df7acef\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f316c40b3fe4d8384813cba0335f3a3\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: The Meat Industry Association, which will cop the backlash on this bill. It is absolutely hopeless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e1dddba18014ab08589850c2ec37f30\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: You gave this speech last night. This is the same speech as last night\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022322eba1de49148be8502129ab083a1cc\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b4f284c69db40789f8a29ace2cf2a32\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022648ce2753955404cbd01bb56a2626703\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Not at all. What I want to highlight to that member, who probably does not understand the true meaning of competition, and may not have been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1307345018548e2b63c1a2a3bb8d831\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I do, and I beat you! That\u2019s when I worked out competition\u2014when I kicked your butt!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221af9ec50e15a4e45bd88d755d34c282f\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yeah, yeah. Around the next election Darren Hughes will be giving an \u201CElections 101\u201D lesson to all the new Labour candidates\u2019 at their candidates\u2019 college on how he lost a safe Labour seat\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb23e339d3c146f1ae02772eba91ba89\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a third reading debate, as the member may or may not know. This is a rather serious issue, and although there can be a bit of humorous banter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265534db5fae94193b6927a58fe08dffa\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Your point of order, please, without the speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275df8307e6e54747ba92aa9fdc359c42\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014for about the last third of the time he has spent talking I have failed to see any relevance to the third reading. I request, Mr Deputy Speaker, that you think about calling him back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254b3cdc2d4bf4b158ba01296b446d2cc\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: I just wish to point out to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, that the member on his feet, Nathan Guy, responded to an interjector saying some competitive things in respect of Nathan Guy\u2019s own patch. It would be only rational and reasonable for Mr Guy to respond in the way that he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6d63d34f58d4206b736db23b2e4110a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ed272728fd046a9917cc68d81d2f677\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: I was talking about competition. This bill is supposedly all about reducing competition. We heard from Maryan Street the same speech that she gave last night\u2014that competition is all about cutting corners. Well, let us think back a little bit, because fewer than about 12 months ago the Minister for State Owned Enterprises wrote to all the chief executives of the State-owned enterprises that he wanted them to go out there, diversify, and make a greater return to the shareholders, the Crown. He wanted them to diversify away from their core business. Now, with the bill in front of us, on the other hand, he says he wants to reduce competition. Will the Minister for State Owned Enterprises be out there trying to create a merger between Genesis and Meridian Energy? I do not see any bill before the House about that, if we are to talk specifically about reducing competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThis bill is all about red meat inspections, and, actually, all about caving into the wishes of the PSA, and we can prove that the deal was done back in July 2006. When we think about consultation on this bill, we expect that the industry would have been consulted. The Meat Industry Association asked Jim Anderton for a meeting so that it could try to understand where he was coming from in respect of the bill. The Minister of Agriculture did not accept that offer, and I thought that was absolutely pathetic. The Minister of Agriculture was not even in touch with the people at the coalface who will bear the brunt of this bill if it goes through this evening. National members will be voting against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E It is also interesting to see that there has been no business case economic analysis. That will be done later. One would presume that the Government would do all the numbers and see how they stack up before putting the bill into the House, but, oh no, this Government gets it into the House, makes it a rushed job, and rams it through, and will do the numbers on it later. How daft is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe most important thing around this bill is that with this merger, if it ever goes through, the costs of the Animal Health Board, which now is able to go out and competitively pitch its products for TB testing to Asure and AgriQuality, will go up by about $2 million. Who is going to pay those costs? It will be those people at the farm gate paying for the TB testing. We need to carry on with TB testing, under the current strategy, until 2013. Mrs Street mentioned mad cow disease. I could not quite understand her, but I think she was saying that that if there was an outbreak, we would be better off with just one State-owned enterprise. I cannot understand why she would even be suggesting that, because we would need all the people on the ground, if there was ever an outbreak\u2014and let us hope there is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI want to speak to new clause 14, which is inserted into Part 2 by the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 120. What is really interesting in this provision is that in the event of the merger of Asure and AgriQuality, the new company will have to pay the Crown the levy prescribed\u2014the Crown will prescribe it. And who will pay that levy? The industry will cop the levy on any sort of merger through the Commerce Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo, to sum up, the National Party feels that this bill has been a rushed bill. We feel it has been a rushed bill. We think there has been very poor consultation. Those people on the other side of the House have caved in to the wishes of the biggest union in the country, and that is proved by a document showing that the deal was done in July 2006. Up will go the costs, and who will pay the costs? You can bet that it will be those at the farm gate. That is why National is opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228384d099f42d47fa868aea3d407a81f0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the State-Owned Enterprises (AgriQuality Limited and Asure New Zealand Limited) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 2; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 2; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002223adc608f30940e581359c5c2bd0ab02\u0022\u003EWeathertight Homes Resolution Services (Remedies) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022899a0497ebcb4e3fa09459e34df6c57c\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00225213b742396a4276b3918455a94f5d25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225213b742396a4276b3918455a94f5d25\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services (Remedies) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. I thank the Social Services Committee for the efficiency and focus with which it has dealt with this bill within a very short time frame. I agree with and wholeheartedly support the committee\u2019s amendments. The changes, I believe, improve the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI also thank the New Zealand Law Society for its accurate and expert guidance, which has been of great value. All members will be aware of the valuable public service the Law Society provides in reviewing and commenting on bills of general public interest. This occasion is no exception. The thrust of the Law Society submission is that the amendment proposed by the bill is needed. The High Court\u2019s decision in Hartley v Balemi and Ors is, as the Law Society states: \u201Cat odds with what practitioners working in this area thought the legislation did and should provide for.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI take this opportunity to remind the House briefly of how this bill came about and of what it contains, and to summarise the select committee\u2019s recommended amendments. The bill confirms and clarifies Parliament\u2019s intention that general damages for mental anxiety or distress can be awarded under the current Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Act 2006 and the repealed Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Act 2002. The decision in Hartley v Balemi held that such damages could not be awarded under the 2002 Act. The judgment also has implications for the 2006 Act. The effect of the judgment, if allowed to stand, is that claimants might secure general damages for mental anxiety and distress from the courts but not from the Weathertight Homes Tribunal. This consequence could not have been foreseen when Parliament enacted the 2006 Act, as two appeal decisions of the District Court made in 2005, in examining the same matters in contention, had held that general damages could be awarded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAn added complication is that the 2006 Act enables the transfer of a claim from the courts to the tribunal, and vice versa. Already, since the tribunal commenced operations on 1 April 2007, it has received claims transferred from the courts: one from the High Court and seven from the District Court. Clearly, the effect of the High Court decision in the Hartley case was contrary to Parliament\u2019s intention of having a specialist one-stop shop for dealing with leaky home claims. Urgent action was needed. The response had to be swift, but it had to be well crafted and lasting. It also had to be widely considered to be the right thing to do, and not only by owners of leaky homes. Therefore, it is pleasing that the New Zealand Law Society, drawing on the insights of lawyers operating in this field, has agreed that this is a necessary amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill makes it clear that general damages for mental anxiety or distress can be awarded. I emphasise that this bill does not require that such damages must be awarded. Indeed, prior to the High Court judgment, such damages have been awarded in only a minority of determinations\u2014that is, 21 percent. Moreover, when there has been an award the amounts have been modest, averaging just $9,450. This is consistent with the longstanding judicial precedent that when the courts award such general damages, the awards are modest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThere will be those who comment that the possibility of general damages for mental anxiety and distress will not add an extra dollar to the compensation received, and is therefore of no relevance. I do not agree. Claimants value these awards as an acknowledgment of the stress they have suffered. The committee wanted the bill to be as simple as possible, so that lay people could understand it. I strongly endorse this aim, and I accept the committee\u2019s amendments. Subclauses (4) and (5) of clause 5 have been deleted; the reference to the Hartley decision was not legally essential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn passing, I note that this bill, if enacted, will not apply to the parties to the Hartley decision. New subclauses (4) and (5) have been inserted in clause 5. These clarify how the bill\u2019s amendment applies to appeals. Subclause (4) clarifies that even if a claim that has been determined is under appeal or review, it will still be deemed \u201Cdisposed of through resolution\u201D for the purposes of working out whether the proposed Act applies to that claim. New subclause (5) provides that if the amendment applies in a claim, the amendment remedies may be included both when the claim is adjudicated and when there is any appeal, rehearing, or review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe converse is also true. If the amendment did not apply to a claim when adjudicated, it also cannot apply when there is an appeal, even if the appeal is made after the amendment has come into force. Clauses 6 to 8 have been deleted. They stated that the affected claims could be amended to include the remedies in question. Certain transition provisions in the principal Act would be unaffected by the proposed Act, and determinations made before the proposed Act commenced would not be affected by it. The technical amendment in clause 9, repeated in the schedule, clarifies that the relevant mental stress relates to the claim, not the claimants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ETo conclude, the bill as reported back achieves what is needed. It clarifies and confirms Parliament\u2019s original intent. It restores to the adjudicators and the tribunal deciding these claims the ability to award general damages for mental anxiety or distress in the same way as the courts. I thank John Gray and the Leaky Homes Action Group members for their strong support for this amendment. I acknowledge the Law Society for its authoritative and helpful contribution. I again thank the Social Services Committee for its thorough and quick examination and sound recommendations, which improve the bill. It is my hope that the House will see it as in no one\u2019s interest to delay this bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268245dd173cc480cbc0d5201d655afb5\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call will be shared, 5 minutes each, by Judith Collins and Bob Clarkson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002263a691808fe645a9bb1536559e2bc1d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263a691808fe645a9bb1536559e2bc1d2\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to be able to speak on the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services (Remedies) Amendment Bill, although it is never a pleasure to follow Mr Cosgrove. What Mr Cosgrove could have mentioned is that if only he had listened to the National Party last year, this bill would not have been necessary. I say to him: \u201CFrankly, we told you so.\u201D We told him back then that the legislation needed to be fixed, but he did not bother to do anything about it. Instead, what we had to do was to deal with the situation as it was pointed out by Justice Lynton Stevens, whom, as I noted the other day, Mr Cosgrove knew so well that he referred to him in the feminine sense, whereas Mr Stevens is actually a male judge. Mr Cosgrove might like to get these things right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the issues with the bill is that it is trying to remedy an error in the law, and the National Party was very pleased to assist in doing that. What we were not pleased to do was to just rush the bill through without there being any consultation with anybody at all outside of Parliament and the Minister\u2019s own department. So on the Social Services Committee we made it very plain that we wanted to get the New Zealand Law Society in to submit on this. I was very pleased that the committee agreed with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIt is a good thing that we insisted on that, because, at the end of the day, the Law Society, which obviously has a lot of people who are very, very experienced in this area, came along with some sensible suggestions. The Law Society said that despite the very good drafting by the Parliamentary Counsel Office, the fact that it was without practical experience in this area meant that it had perhaps missed the point that in trying to make the bill more user-friendly for the public, it was, unfortunately, creating more opportunities for there to be disagreements in court over what the meaning was. So that is one of the issues that the New Zealand Law Society was able to point out. Those on the select committee were particularly grateful for that. Again, if we had not insisted on it, it would not have happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Social Services Committee met at various times outside normal hours to assist the Government, but did we get a word of thanks? No, there was not a word of thanks. But we would not be thanked by the Government, because we did not do this for the Government; we did it for the people of New Zealand. We did it because we cared more about them than we cared about making politics out of this issue, and that is what the Government did not do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhen I look at the Minister Clayton Cosgrove, who consistently indulges in personal abuse, except when he wants us to do something for him\u2014then suddenly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad88cf3a04c1415fb737ab8698548e56\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That is rich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022120b0ccaf5084797bd4c07c7af27fb15\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, of course, my abuse was all correct. When the Minister does not want us to do something for him, he suddenly does not want to have a bar of it and simply refers to the work of the select committee as though it was a Labour select committee. But what about the members on it? What about all the parties? Let us look at them. The Greens, the ACT party, the National Party, and the Labour Party all agreed to meet outside the normal hours. Also, United Future should not be forgotten. It would be nice for the Minister to say to those other parties, particularly to United Future and to the Greens, that the Government actually appreciated the effort that they put into the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002268e0a58ed1194448a3462dbc2add1d38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268e0a58ed1194448a3462dbc2add1d38\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E I know I have just made a speech, and in that speech I think I said four times that I thanked the Social Services Committee. I seek leave to table my speech, so that the member can see that I did thank the select committee members on at least three occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ef1830f555e4dbd8d9e7c387f8c8160\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course to be followed. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022 data-id=\u0022093026a140554e51b069112a23ebdddf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022093026a140554e51b069112a23ebdddf\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for this chance to speak on the subject of leaky homes. It is quite interesting that it says at the top of the bill \u201C(Remedies)\u201D. That is a bit of a joke. I really want to go through the whole thing about the leaky homes issue, but let us go through some of these\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5f77d69c6874c549436964c84029c26\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Give it a whirl, Bob.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c348243dcde444d792d3983fc3a55c98\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that will do; good. If I solved some of my business problems the way the Government does, I would be broke in a very short time. One cannot wake up in the morning and change the rules just because one has a good feeling in the middle of the night. It is as simple as that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f459a436edfc4d1ba3cfee8bc891f7e0\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Define that, Bob! How many good feelings have you had in the middle of the night?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d74da0e884964b40a85a5f87344a4e6a\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot remember. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270f71723bb5d40d7bd176ddfd57164eb\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: But plenty of people went to a resolution service about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022864b54fc45ba48fe882095c81e8b6cd4\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Would members please keep quiet, eh\u2014I am trying. The Government is a bit lucky. It just keeps spending more taxpayers\u2019 dollars and hoping that the problem will go away. I have news for the Minister, Clayton Cosgrove: this bill will not make the problem of leaky homes disappear. Labour\u2019s policy is quite simple. If dollars do not fix a problem, then Labour changes the Minister in charge of it. There have been seven Ministers so far since this problem started. Six have failed to solve the problem, and the seventh is about to fail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EIf changing the Minister fails, try changing the law! That is the next move. This law came out of a bad dream, and it will not help. Laws should be made after careful studies are done on how to solve a problem. Debates should be had with people who understand the problem\u2014it is as simple as that\u2014and who can give good advice on how to rectify the problem. One should not make laws on the run, as seems to be happening at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EThis will be a total failure, because it was rushed through with very little thought by people who do not fully understand the full problem. The Government protected itself through the courts by letting the Department of Building and Housing off the hook, and this has caused a lot of mental stress for thousands of homeowners. Now we have a Minister bringing a bill into the House to allow people to claim for mental stress. How strange is that? The Government causes a stress by not dealing with the situation and by protecting one of its departments, the Department of Building and Housing, so that it cannot be sued for damages. That in itself causes more mental stress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EThis bill is a waste of time. The mental stress will be fixed, by fixing the problem. In this case, the Minister has lost sight of the problem. The problem is that we have leaky homes\u2014leaky homes that are taking too long to fix. We have people who cannot face a hearing in the Weathertight Homes Tribunal, because they do not know anything about building a house. That is what got them into the problem in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EThere is a major problem with people getting stressed, in that they cannot afford to pay a lawyer to assist them. They have to take a lawyer along to the hearing at the Weathertight Homes Tribunal\u2014even though the Minister says they do not\u2014because the other side has top lawyers defending it. The Minister has the cheek to say that people do not need lawyers to defend themselves at the Weathertight Homes Tribunal hearings. If there is a lawyer on one side, it is only fair that there is a lawyer on the other side. I say to the Minister that he should wake up and get to the real world. It could be a situation where there are no lawyers allowed, such as in small claims courts. I am not recommending that, but I would like to debate it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EThe Minister quoted in a select committee on Wednesday that some person\u2014I think he was a reverend\u2014was sorting out his own house, and had handled the complete Weathertight Homes Tribunal hearing himself, without a lawyer, and won the case. The Minister stuttered a little on the percentage of the claim the man won. Also, he did not say whether the person who won actually got the dollars paid to him. It is a funny thing that he quoted only one case. Was there only one case? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI had better move on fast here. I will just quickly say that the National Party has two top people to deal with the leaky homes situation in the future when we are in Government next time: Nick Smith and myself. I assure members that we will not fluff around the edges with a half-baked policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u00226b2052e1dd434a46907eb4dfcc8e34ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b2052e1dd434a46907eb4dfcc8e34ea\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I do admire that man\u2019s optimism. We thought that he came to the House as a retiree, but he will have to leave it as a centenarian if he wants to get a chance to be around the housing and building ministries. His continued life in Opposition is certainly destined by that speech. We cannot, of course, fix leaky buildings by legislation, but we can provide remedies by legislation. That is what this Weathertight Homes Resolution Services (Remedies) Amendment Bill is all about. It is interesting that the Weathertight Homes Tribunal has now been going for 10 weeks, and already a layperson has obtained a settlement as a result of taking a matter right through the process to a stage where he describes himself as being 100 percent happy. He has obtained a confidential settlement and has emerged from the process saying he is totally happy. So already we are seeing the fruits of an efficient piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EAnother example of efficiency is the Social Services Committee, which I have the pleasure of chairing and whose membership comprises the most happy and agreeable collection of individuals that is possible. We progressed this bill through the committee with all speed, because we appreciated that it corrected an aberration in a point of law taken in the High Court, and accepted by the judge as perhaps having some validity. The judge, Justice Stevens, was no doubt supported by an opinion of a retired High Court judge, the Hon Sir Robert Smellie, who postulated in the New Zealand Lawyer\u2014not a conservative publication\u2014that perhaps the new law did not allow for general damages. But that was a tentative conclusion, and it was in the face of several District Court decisions that the Act did allow for general damages. In fact, after the article was written Judge McElrea of the District Court very carefully analysed the Act, comparing it with the existing Act, and held that the retired High Court judge was wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EAll that this bill does is to save litigants further costs. That includes the costs of the applicants and the respondents, because it was always the intention\u2014and that is reflected in the National Party\u2019s minority report in the commentary on the original legislation\u2014that the legislation should include the right to general damages. When the High Court decision came out that argued that general damages were not available, it did not say there could be no general damages; it said that if a litigant wished to claim general damages, then he or she had to follow that issue through the general courts. So we had the farcical situation of a specialist tribunal\u2014the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service\u2014being able to decide everything except the quantum of general damages, which the litigant would then need to follow up on through the general court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EHow would that save anybody money? How would that save the country money? How would that go towards the speedy resolution of disputes? Well, it simply would not. So this bill amends the earlier Act, which is a sound Act that has withstood judicial scrutiny on several occasions. But to be cautious, we are meeting the challenge laid down by Justice Stevens and making it crystal clear that general damages are the entitlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI want to refer to a letter dated 15 June that I received earlier this week from Wellington City Council, lamenting the passage of this bill. Its understanding of the bill seems to be entirely amiss. I will deal with the points it makes about it. The council claims that this legislation will open a Pandora\u2019s box. It seems to have failed to read the National Party\u2019s minority report in the commentary on the original bill, in which National pointed out that it felt general damages should be included but was concerned that a decision such as the one made by Justice Stevens might become apparent. However, the National Party was too timid to take that matter further by voting against the bill or by putting forward any substantial amendments. It was a \u201Cstraw in the wind\u201D sort of approach. When this amending bill came back before the select committee, the cooperation in getting it dealt with expeditiously was splendid. In fact, the deliberation took all of 46 seconds. That was possible only with the splendid cooperation of the venerable National Party, which realised that this was a bill of short order that made crystal clear a legal right that does exist, whether it be through the Weathertight Homes Tribunal or through the general courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E Wellington City Council is wrong when it says this bill opens a Pandora\u2019s box, because general damages is not a goldmine that people are entitled to have access to. General damages is the award of a sum of money intended to put a person back in the position that he or she was in before suffering a harm. That is not a Pandora\u2019s box; that is justice. If that council is not concerned about its citizens achieving justice, then it clearly needs to look carefully at what it is there for and at what its elected representatives are seeking to achieve. So this bill does not deliver a Pandora\u2019s box to be opened by litigants; it is merely a bill to sort out what everyone believed was the law. It is as simple as that. It brings the resolution of weathertight homes issues into a specialist tribunal, which has already proven that it can deal with them expeditiously and efficiently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker, the member for Tauranga, Bob Clarkson, who was a member of the committee, lamented that somehow legislation should be able to solve the problem of leaky buildings. He opined that if ever National got near the Treasury benches, then Dr Nick Smith would become the Minister for Building Issues. That in itself is a strong argument for National members not to be made members of a Government, because the same Dr Nick Smith ushered in the Building Act, which gave rise to this fiasco. Until the Building Act came in, people who bought houses knew that the houses were properly built, because there were sets of specifications and requirements that everybody understood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d72edfffe3714d49a56ec0a56d1b1668\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: And he abolished apprenticeships, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f957841624c54a6d934636676607b7d5\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes, of course. Abolishing the apprenticeships left us with untrained builders. All that one needed, when Dr Nick Smith had finished, was a ute, a dog, and a radio, and one could call oneself a builder. So if we have Dr Nick Smith back on the Treasury benches, assisted by the octogenarian Bob Clarkson, then we will return to the chaotic days that gave rise to the leaky buildings syndrome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EIt is not a good thing to have a leaky building. It is one of the most traumatic things that could happen to any individual. Resolution of such a problem is not to play games within our courts\u2019 processes. All that the owners of leaky buildings want is justice. Every person who buys a house expects to get a valid deal, and if that deal proves to be invalid, then he or she does not have to be driven to the wall financially or mentally in trying to litigate a way through the minefield of court processes that are littered with the antics of high-paid lawyers employed by people such as the protesting Wellington City Council. Instead, through the Weathertight Homes Tribunal and through the work of my good friend the Minister, Clayton Cosgrove, who has steered this legislation through and given real leadership to this whole issue, we have a New Zealand that can handle the leaky buildings crisis and put it behind us. My thoughts are with the owners of leaky buildings. It is to my regret that the neo-liberal policies of the previous National Government brought in a situation of open slather, where people could build anything, put a paint job on it, and sell it at an overpriced value. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis Government does not support ripping off householders. Perhaps National\u2019s lament is that that right has gone. This Government supports people\u2019s major investment in homes as being a long-term, sound investment. This bill puts right what the previous National Government put wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022274295230a574307ad55180d7ccbdf29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022274295230a574307ad55180d7ccbdf29\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. I just want to acknowledge at this time all those people who are on the motorway, listening to this debate, particularly in terms of some of the comments that have been made about the intent of this Weathertight Homes Resolution Services (Remedies) Amendment Bill. Although there have been those who have expressed some disquiet about this bill, we know that they will support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThis bill is timely. I take this opportunity to acknowledge the Minister responsible for this bill, Clayton Cosgrove, for reacting in a timely manner, because there are a number of families whose homes are affected by the weathertight homes issue. It is only fair that this Government should introduce a bill to provide a remedy for the problems that those families have. I know that in Manukau City, where I live, there are a number of families who are concerned about whether they will get some form of compensation, be it for the distress and anxiety caused by the problem their home has or for other reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070621ed6878bc78db4f5caf9816915ddae63f000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"