"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229add71c2bfe7406a9d4395b6b8c1c5a6\u0022\u003EWednesday, 22 August 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022612b214ad58d449eab0bb0d8cbbde62e\u0022\u003EWednesday, 22 August 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002207c9bca8929f4a819bfda9fd3db82e8a\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022453161c905a846cab92d0b9d3bb2d368\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bceeb55d319b4b4eaf2cbfa45fca334e\u0022\u003EWater\u2014Drinking Water\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cbd27c8f7e84344986b79d50563c519\u0022\u003E1. ANN HARTLEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Has he received any recent reports on the cost of providing healthy drinking-water?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u002258dd0307aee04223b1e9379d7dc3ec2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258dd0307aee04223b1e9379d7dc3ec2a\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I have. I have seen a copy of a speech by the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Key, to the AGM of Local Government New Zealand, in which he said that the cost of providing healthy water to the community of \u014Cwaka in the Catlins would be $500,000. He is wrong; the highest estimated cost is about $50,000. I doubt whether Mr Key would have added the extra zero by mistake, given his career as a global money trader. Therefore, I invite him not to deal in irresponsible scaremongering around publicly funded essential services. Mr Key should try to stick with the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb5f92d8c3494c4791355d95de083889\u0022\u003EAnn Hartley\u003C/span\u003E: Is there agreement on the policies for the provision of healthy drinking-water?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206be6d9aecab4a6380fe945a439b063b\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: No; there is not agreement across the parties in this House on that matter. The reason for that is that there is not agreement within the National Party. One view is that no action is required at all in this area, as it is \u201Ca totally non-existent problem\u201D. Another view is that 24 percent of our water fails to meet bacteriological standards, and \u201Ca coordinated plan with local government is required to progressively upgrade water supplies\u201D. The first statement is from Jonathan Coleman from the National Party; the second statement is from the National Party\u2019s Nick Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6072447aef84744b5ec2be71d7dd56e\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that the growth of irrigated dairy farming in Canterbury is posing a risk to water quality and to public health, in light of the warning from the Canterbury medical officer of health about the potential for significant health effects from the proposed Central Plains Water irrigation scheme to irrigate 60,000 hectares of farmland in Canterbury?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cccf47d9dc940aeb32cc90a90d8a62f\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: There are many causes of poor quality, or insufficient quality, in New Zealand\u2019s drinking-water\u2014dairying being amongst them, but by no means the only one. New Zealanders enjoy good drinking-water standards in cities and often nowhere near good enough standards out in the countryside. We have a lot of water-borne illnesses as a result of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d489e29667b54877816a7f8c32dd7b3e\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: In that case, can the Minister tell the House what he makes of a report from the Institute of Environmental Science and Research that proves a link between intensive dairying and drinking-water contamination by campylobacter, cryptosporidium, and E. coli; and is that the result of a 4-year Government sustainable water programme of inaction?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1ce7c522e8f4cc4a233a368f91e5e35\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure where the member is coming from. I thought we were on roughly the same page, with the only difference being that I thought not all substandard water was due to dairying, and some of it was due to other causes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002227f6858f72af44a7aa584a8fb347a9fc\u0022\u003EJustice, Minister\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0d839fb1e864a8faa80ee23bc1a6055\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in the Minister of Justice; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u002251727df4fb2b455085409bf4940458a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251727df4fb2b455085409bf4940458a7\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; because he is a hard-working and conscientious Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7632f28456543879fc4cf89020ebad9\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Minister\u2019s statement in the House in relation to the Electoral Finance Bill that \u201Cthe third-party provisions in the bill do not unjustifiably restrict freedom of expression\u201D; if so, are all the interest groups that are making submissions to the select committee to protect their democratic rights, simply wasting their time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7713aeafff44a7b6de58e9d958da4d\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, no one making a submission is wasting his or her time. Indeed, I note that the Coalition for Open Government states it believes that the problems it sees with the third-party rules in the Electoral Finance Bill can be fairly easily fixed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022872e1957a878482f8784e7e90f97de92\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Electoral Finance Bill been designed with any overseas precedents in mind?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250c672b8ebcb4818adf8e09d75db7009\u0022\u003ERt Hon Helen Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, it has. One could instance the United Kingdom where the electoral finance period extends for a year prior to a general election, and also in respect of the role of third parties in election campaigns, in the United Kingdom they must register if they wish to spend more than a certain amount on campaigns. They may not receive anonymous donations; nor may they receive donations from trusts where those contributing to the trust cannot be reasonably identified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022445e4891f72e4591a2c4d8072ff9c52e\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Prime Minister have confidence in the Minister when, despite constant questioning, he cannot even answer questions on things as simple as the definition of election advertising?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022044de6b1dfff41229d355294212549a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Having seen and heard a number of those questions, they are clearly trying to seek legal opinions from the Minister, which would not normally be given at question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a08d05a1e242d1a7a4ac480b741f96\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the motivation for this bill to remove the negative, unfair, and malignant influences of certain businesses from electoral campaigns, and if the answer is yes, then what is the evidence for there to be public concern on this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298bf8a4ae22c445fa9c9adf84b866fea\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly the motivation for the bill is to deal with the most regrettable influence of very big money on New Zealand election campaigns. I note in this respect that Mr Key\u2019s speech today said that organisations should not be allowed to spend unlimited sums of money trying to influence an election\u2014an interesting statement from someone who clearly was one of the bagmen for the National Party campaign. We can go through The Hollow Men and find all sorts of references, like the one in Mr Key\u2019s diary of August 2005, which stated he was scheduled to be \u201CMeeting with loads of big donors in Northland with John Carter (full day and night).\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268cf612fdc334bb085c7be53fe37a202\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: If the purposes of the changes to the proposed Electoral Finance Bill were not to advantage the Government, why did the Labour Party not consult the National Party, the M\u0101ori Party, and the ACT party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222161ec5a28cf49bfa79dd010ce4667fc\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: To the best of my recollection, the National Party has been consistently pretty hostile to trying to rein in the role of big money, because it has had so much of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4930c8f7398486aac31d55b8eb7bd43\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Just a cheat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b512d9e6f7e4c6abfe15abf088ccaa7\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I take exception to the allegation that Dr Smith just made, and I would ask him to withdraw and apologise for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260767ee193494138a440a26659a7bca5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has been asked to withdraw and apologise for his comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ea4ad4370ab4813a3412c638b87482a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. What do we call spending $800,000 illegally on a pledge card, if it is not cheating?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268554e50719e463a9cb1ba507e3ef1be\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order, as the member knows. Please be seated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e2958f636d14451a0c583be998ace2d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Given that fund-raising up north all day and night may be just a temporary apparition, surely the Prime Minister has more evidence than that for making the allegation that Mr Key was the bagman, in respect of fund-raising for the National Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227768fcb44c3f48129f026c4b13fc039d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not within the Prime Minister\u2019s responsibility for the activities of other parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e46384335124645bdd0465375c14166\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. With respect, this issue concerns the involvement of big business in campaigns. That requires there to be a relationship and communication between political parties and big business. If we cannot even ask that question, then how can we even discuss the issue\u2014that is, by the Prime Minister\u2019s admission, the motivation behind the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228663a9f5b899492c885a6bdc8b58e9ac\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member; please be seated. The member is perfectly entitled to ask a question that relates to those matters, but that question must be within the terms of the Standing Orders; in other words, that there is ministerial responsibility for it. Is there another point of order? I was not encouraging one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb66c8d649f7495ca5c9129cc8879393\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You have encouraged it, because you allowed the Prime Minster to make a statement regarding evidence in The Hollow Men, uncontested or disputed by anyone in this House, so if the Prime Minister could refer to that, why can I not ask questions as to whether there were other examples in The Hollow Men of such activity? That was the nature of my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0f9096592594813beaf55533a3bd859\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but the whole purpose of your question did not relate to any ministerial responsibility. I think it was Mr Key\u2019s question that did relate to ministerial responsibility and the Prime Minister was responding accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228156189be00a4242b7f55c276cd61903\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Prime Minister received that justify the claims that she has just made to the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331dcd03c32e40679cf844fb089a041f\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, The Hollow Men is full of such references\u2014for example, Rob McLeod of the Business Roundtable approaching Dr Brash and Mr Key to help arrange a donation to National from heirs to the Spencer family fortunes; for example, the dinner Mr Key apparently attended on his birthday, which was hosted by Bill Birnie, formerly of Fay Richwhite; and another one hosted by Rod Deane, at which Mr Key is said to have been present. That is why I made the statement about Mr Key being a bagman for collecting very big money, and I am sure it is still going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c5bb6e238bd4f47bfe5b88cf9de026d\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: What responsibility does the Prime Minister take for the Electoral Law Reform Bill, given she chaired Cabinet and was responsible for the provisions of the bill, as introduced into the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca0466173e354834bd5c8b67fa25654c\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Of course I chair Cabinet; that is the role of being Prime Minister. I am also a Prime Minister who is always open to intelligent and informed contributions; I am waiting to hear one from the Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238e3796610e344edbb0daf66a93a5a56\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Prime Minister telling the House that she has no responsibility for the provisions in the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c9d88eea7e4a6c81bbe85b47be06f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: For the rather new parliamentarian opposite, I just set out that, of course, I chair Cabinet. It goes with the job!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a325aea6cdc34d7c84d7b591c3227d8c\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason the Prime Minister will not answer the question, despite this being the third time I have asked it, that she is quite simply embarrassed by a piece of legislation she knows should be ripped up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022780ab16a933d43fa90b82028949dce8d\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Over here, we accept collective responsibility. There is little evidence of it over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcf213246fa1459886d9a9e2364a0c93\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with the editorial in the latest New Zealand Law Journal regarding the Electoral Finance Bill that states: \u201CThis Bill is fundamentally obnoxious and should be scrapped. It will penalise private citizens who have the temerity to interfere in politics while doing nothing to deal with the major electoral funding issue we face: the misuse of taxpayers\u2019 money on a huge scale to ensure the re-election of the incumbent government.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e60f9d0371f34134bfb46164c222e905\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to name the editor of the New Zealand Law Journal, a certain Bernard Robertson, a well-known, right-wing commentator, and guaranteed to take a position against the Labour Party anytime, anywhere. I prefer the judgment of the Coalition for Open Government, which states that the problems with the rules that it sees can be fairly easily fixed, in the bill before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a6678185c44d03996cdb24ef671484\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm for New Zealanders that that is exactly the sort of opinion she is trying to close down with the provisions of the Electoral Finance Bill, because she does not like it when people publicly say they disagree with her?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288fff40fd843421e89b41a18593bd848\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Most certainly not. Unlike the Leader of the Opposition, I have never been to the editor of the Sunday Star-Times asking that Rod Oram be shut down\u2014or was it the business editor of the Sunday Star-Times?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022249e5a12c1d746ae96e4d0de65a9916b\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister appreciate that our democracy is a precious thing, owned by the people of New Zealand, and that, in light of the damning report of the Auditor-General and the implications of our electoral law reform, in actual fact taking cheap shots across the House is not the best way to get the best law and the best outcome on this most important issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022069c32ceaadd4f7da37789665ec4bca9\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely agree with the first contention of the member that democracy is a precious thing. The second point I want to make is that The Hollow Men showed how exposed our democracy is to big money in politics. Had the Leader of the Opposition come in here today and tried to make good on what he said in his speech about discussions around multiparty approaches, he may have been taken seriously, but his approach in the House today has been completely inconsistent with the speech he gave barely 2 hours ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7d4bee6b428456080e1fb3c6ccf6140\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Government received any reports from the Campaign for Better Government\u2014which she will recall had so much to say about the 1993 elections, when the elections were overt\u2014comprised Peter Shirtcliffe, his wife, and his daughter, who spent millions to try to skew the MMP choice in that election; is that the kind of business involvement we do want in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246809706f34a4fdab826a717b62943f9\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is clear that New Zealand law on big money in politics has been far too open for too long. That is what there needs to be some genuine discussion about, in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd4194b2ab4a4968bf3cd316410a0157\u0022\u003EAustralia\u2014Migration Patterns\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264fcff0b95144220be4882c76d7a40c8\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: What was the number of permanent and long-term departures of New Zealanders to Australia in the year to July 2007, and what was the number of permanent and long-term arrivals to New Zealand in the same period?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00226bd4ef4ec50b4cb69421c51f80d5bccf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bd4ef4ec50b4cb69421c51f80d5bccf\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Associate Minister of Immigration)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister of Immigration: I am advised that the Minister has no portfolio responsibility for the departure of New Zealanders to Australia. I am, however, able to advise the member that figures from the Statistics New Zealand website show that the net permanent long-term outflow to Australia of New Zealand citizens departing for 12 months or more was 25,500 in July 2007, and that in the year ended July 2007 there were 82,500 permanent long-term arrivals, up 1,800, or 2 percent, from the July 2006 year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275371626b5c348319d60f0f56a6d5a6f\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister satisfied that 25,500 Kiwis\u2014roughly 500 per week\u2014are departing for Australia, and is he aware that that is about 5,000 more than last year; and does he share the concern that those departing to Australia are being replaced by a mishmash of migrants, some of whom make little or no commitment to this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211b47df26b9740b099d90903ef70468a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm the figures I have just stated from the Statistics New Zealand website. We all know that there is a global exchange of skills. Kiwis have travelled for many, many years, and many come back to New Zealand. I also remind the member that since the New Zealand Residence Programme has been in place, 60 percent of migrants approved have been skilled. This policy requires a number of factors, including the establishment of considerable specialist, technical, or management skills, and work experience or recognised qualifications, to name just some of the criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263366a0f8e014a9395e1630c4c93f2f1\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that answer, does the Minister agree that rather than operating an immigration policy, his Government and previous Governments have operated what is more like a replacement policy, replacing our best and brightest with whomever we can find; if not, how would he describe the current policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259400d289cdf4de59165b89ac67ba14f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: No. The Government has operated a policy that is aimed at attracting skilled migrants, as I have said, to New Zealand. I repeat for the member\u2019s benefit that since the New Zealand Residence Programme was put in place, 60 percent of migrants approved have been skilled. I say for the benefit of the member that the other criteria are a relevant job offer that requires the use of those skills and qualifications, a good level of English, an acceptable standard of health, and a good character. In addition, I note for the member\u2019s benefit that our top source of migrants wanting to settle in New Zealand is the United Kingdom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225911a4b155bd4bc0bb50186a06969d93\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: What number of the 25,500 going from New Zealand to Australia, as at the last count, were short-term residency holders from abroad who had come to New Zealand and have now relocated to Australia; and if the Minister does not know, why on earth would the department not be collecting those figures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273dc1996ce434595b6848b05bf6a58ec\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have those figures in front of me at this point, but I will endeavour to get them for the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0d1526db2b6459a8414e8086e91afa7\u0022\u003EElectoral Finance Bill\u2014Neutral Referees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec75fd18cedf40dc9f535e73d9122f8b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he stand by his statement in relation to matters of election campaigning in the Electoral Finance Bill that \u201CA neutral referee is provided for in this legislation to exercise judgment on those matters.\u201D; if so, who is that neutral referee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u002266e93b5082cb44d69097d0c536433256\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266e93b5082cb44d69097d0c536433256\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I do. The quote refers to the role of the Chief Electoral Officer in relation to determining whether publications by third parties and candidates fall within the definition of election activity. The Chief Electoral Officer will also be in a position to generally provide advice and guidance on what is and is not included in the bill\u2019s definitions. In some cases that advice would be very straightforward, such as in the case of publications by the news media. There is an exemption for the news media, and it includes material that the news media disseminates on the Internet, such as an online newspaper or a journalist\u2019s blog.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022605fea826c81420bb6b00cb5fde29241\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the role of the Chief Electoral Officer is absolutely unchanged by this legislation, that the Chief Electoral Officer has always been available to offer that guidance and advice, and that, contrary to his statement to the House, this legislation does not provide a new, neutral referee; so why did he say it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aea29483110d495491520f7a45501c39\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: The member should be careful to be accurate. I did not say \u201Ca new, neutral referee\u201D. I said it provides a neutral referee; it does, and it provides an extended role and responsibilities for the Chief Electoral Officer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220808abc6327143a89314d480cb0f5112\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that whenever this Minister is asked a question about this legislation, he either does not know the answer or thinks he does and gets it wrong, and occasionally just makes it up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a3d1f53ece24f058663491622222af5\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: That has got to be the ultimate case of the pot attempting to call the kettle black. I have answered each question factually and correctly, but, frankly, I say to Mr English, the making-up is something we have seen as recently as in the last question the member asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022504d98272f774e198e563aaa45204799\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell us whether he knows the answer to this question, and if he does not know can he please not attempt to answer it. Can he confirm that unincorporated societies, such as churches, can qualify as third parties under this bill and therefore be allowed to spend over $5,000 in election year only if all their members are registered electors, and that, therefore, any church that has a member who is aged 17 or under is thereby excluded from participating?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022459ed687107448a992101a362a38235a\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: The question the member raises is a matter of interpretation of one of the clauses in the bill. It is a matter that I have asked officials to look at, because I think it is important that the intent of the bill is clear in all matters. That is, of course, why we have a select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022661d705102c14661914ee7b3f077e173\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Now that the Minister has had 24 hours since I asked him about whether blogs on newspaper websites count as election advertisements, can he now inform the House what his best advice is on that matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279fee59ec6434aec8632af4c4e69826b\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: The member clearly did not listen to the answer I gave to his principal question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7432875bc62458cb7ce6e3e883d2a3e\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can I give the Minister 24 hours\u2019 notice of an answer to this question: is it correct, under this legislation, that, regarding the Labour Party pledge card and the spending of $800,000, which exceeded the expenditure limits at the last election, the Labour Party would not be liable for anything if it did the same again, and that the only person who would be is the party\u2019s financial agent, who would have to pay a $40,000 fine, but that Labour would be able to run the pledge card and not have to repay the money if it did it illegally?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f785eb2ac3364816af1a277cd91d271b\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: That matter is not covered by this legislation, as the member should well know. This legislation covers the activities of candidates in election campaigns, not parliamentary activity. But if the member does want to put a question down for 24 hours, of course he is eligible to do so. I have to say to the member that what this bill will not allow, which happened at the last election, is the $1 million rort that the National Party, and Mr Key in particular, actively knew about and encouraged\u2014that $1 million rort at absolute odds with the sentiments of the speech that that member gave just 2 hours ago in this building.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7ecd9cada55442b91974ba03940c066\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the member confirm that under this law, he, as the member for Taupo, will be able to spend $65,000 of public money next year promoting himself, and anyone who tries to challenge him will be limited to $20,000 expenditure for the whole year; and does he agree that even with a three to one advantage he will get trashed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ef1582f09074f1c87ce810a581ab275\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yet again the member is factually incorrect on every point. As a member of Parliament, like that member\u2014although I do visit my electorate on a frequent basis\u2014I will be entitled to continue to meet my responsibilities, and expenditure related to those, as a member of Parliament. I will not be entitled to spend any of that money in my capacity as a candidate in winning a sixth term to the Taupo electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002210d27f34058741248360efcf2d05455c\u0022\u003EFormaldehyde\u2014Safety of Textiles and Clothing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ad0f99245f148468bc0c6b6de2c2213\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Consumer Affairs: Will the Government issue legally binding standards on formaldehyde in textiles and conduct an extensive investigation into the safety of clothing sold in New Zealand, in the wake of TV3\u2019s Target programme last night?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9ca3ae4669a46e6bc9aa5111975a29b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9ca3ae4669a46e6bc9aa5111975a29b\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E The Ministry of Consumer Affairs has opened an urgent investigation into formaldehyde levels in imported clothing, and a swift, comprehensive, and appropriate response will be made once the results of the investigation are received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b0ab149b8140a1936c5db7b1a1ecf6\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: How wideranging will the investigation be, how many clothes will be tested, and will she use her powers to recall any clothes and textiles that exceed the World Health Organization safety limit\u2014and are therefore unsafe\u2014and initiate the random testing of imported textiles and clothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fec8451337f74366a9d965322ee3223e\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I understand from the Ministry of Consumer Affairs that it is looking at making a reasonably wide range of clothing available for testing. It has been talking with the Ministry of Health and the Environmental Risk Management Authority. It is also in contact with our Australian counterparts. I would like to point out that neither New Zealand nor Australia has a standard for formaldehyde levels in textiles, and that the international levels vary wildly from those of Japan, which has a level of about 30 parts per million, through to those of some European countries, which allow up to 10,000 parts per million. So what we are also doing is looking for appropriate levels and appropriate testing procedures, but we will do that as quickly as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226101ec2b52be4894a4d40768bcbb8a37\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that the European Union has had standards on formaldehyde in children\u2019s clothing since 1999, the US has standards on formaldehyde in clothing, and clearly the issue was raised in Australia in the middle of the year, yet the ministry that she has been in charge of for 5 years has done nothing about this issue until this week, when the TV cameras turned up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022782bdcbe75b9456fb6aeb843ab064bb3\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand has overarching requirements in the Consumer Guarantees Act, which requires all goods to be safe and fit for the purpose for which they are sold. If any consumers have any concerns, then they should complain first to the retailer and refer the complaint to the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, or go to their general practitioner. We also recognise that formaldehyde is quite a common chemical. It is used in textiles to fix dyes and for the permanent pressing process. It is also used as a biocide and an anti-mildew process for goods that come here by sea. This is not a new issue, and it is constantly reviewed. I believe that all New Zealanders should be assured that the Government does have very good processes, but they also need to read labels and follow them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2d4ee58b2814af4a095ec13cc957768\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: How can New Zealanders have any confidence that the pyjamas and T-shirts their children are wearing are safe, when on the one hand this Government encourages a flood of cheap imports into New Zealand from countries with poor consumer protection and safety regulations, and on the other hand it fails to set standards, conduct random tests, and issue recalls of unsafe products, leading to New Zealanders being exposed to toys with lead paint in them, to toothpaste with industrial chemicals in it, and to clothing and now blankets today that are contaminated with alarmingly high levels of formaldehyde, which, despite what the Minister has said, is a known human carcinogen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293f706bb531a4a6ca4408d9047b285ee\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand is a relatively small market, so it is very difficult for us to dictate to the whole world how its manufacturers should work and what the standards should be. Indeed, there are conflicting, or different, standards in different areas. What I can say is that New Zealand does have standards. The standard is absolute: every good must be safe, every good must be properly labelled, and every good must be suitable for the purpose for which it is intended. Every consumer has that assurance, and anyone who is concerned about any good should go back to the retailer. There is a chain of responsibility from the manufacturer to the importer, to the retailer, and to the consumer. The Government has very good laws and very good standards, which should be good protection for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b71004891c3a49d0a3850d0b889985d5\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: What standards do exist to protect New Zealand consumers from imported products?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227280c102ac4a4b28b53ba243b0b548c3\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: We have absolute standards. Under the Consumer Guarantees Act, all goods must be safe and fit for their purpose. That Act is, in the first instance, self-enforcing, and the test is reasonableness. Under the Fair Trading Act, goods must be adequately labelled as to fibre content, care instructions, and, for clothing, the country of origin\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d28654f386684d25910b7c9b49d773b7\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. How is it that a member can ask a question from a sheet, give that same sheet to the Minister with the answer on it, and then the Minister gives the answer? For goodness\u2019 sake!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022341ad7e561e6433cadecbd9b10617e52\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please be seated. That is not a point of order. We will hear the answer in silence, but the answer will be succinct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022022463e130944e7080880755f08f8acb\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: Under the Consumer Guarantees Act and under the Fair Trading Act a number of standards are set out, but they are overarching standards and specifics where we know that products have been unsafe. We are concerned about goods from all countries, but what we cannot do, and what I do not want to do, is to add massive costs to New Zealand consumers by assuming that all imported goods are unsafe. The vast majority of them are perfectly safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022430e860630574662bbc4064c8f8758b1\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It would help the House enormously in its judgment on that answer if Mr Jones could explain whether he wrote the answer or the Minister wrote the question on the piece of paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224adcf750f71947ac94f01b39ab29f795\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. We are starting to be show ponies again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc3ae32f914e47e6a867c2a91bb1605c\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Ministry of Consumer Affairs\u2019 roles, which show the Minister can make mandatory standards, ban unsafe products, and recall\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221793e627fd92426693ec68d21533feb3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. Does the member have several documents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251161ff6c131422c972e7f8dec351e3b\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Just a couple; that is all. I seek leave to table a release today showing that Superlux blankets are now being recalled after tests that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5f077d3ae084fabafe5fec3068b1d12\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236f77d0ee06345b6aba5a0a8c4c2fda4\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document outlining the string of consumer complaints, from Wednesday, 22 August this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237424f7fe2394116b57da2ba9828fef9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead56fd96caf46e1be6850ddc55ef0e6\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the release from the Ministry of Consumer Affairs labelled \u201CInvestigation into Formaldehyde in Clothing\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ecae0725a104fc2a8095fba1f837a62\u0022\u003EState Services, Minister\u2014Records of Environment Ministry\u0027s Discussions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22388eb40584006beeea1d5568cbb2f\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of State Services: Do the \u201CMinister\u2019s records\u201D referred to in answers to question for oral answer No. 7 yesterday confirm she first learnt of David Benson-Pope\u2019s discussion with Hugh Logan regarding the employment of Madeleine Setchell on 3 July 2007; if so, who told her?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00229247ba5a556d4c4695a77a5953d363d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229247ba5a556d4c4695a77a5953d363d3\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of State Services):\u003C/span\u003E No, I did not hear of the discussion between Mr Benson-Pope and Mr Hugh Logan on 3 July, as I have told this House before. At that time, 3 July, I was advised by Mr Rennie that an employment problem existed. To make it crystal clear to the member asking the question, I repeat what I said in response to his question No. 3 on 9 August, which is that I was first advised of the comments of Mr Benson-Pope to Mr Hugh Logan on 25 July.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af33d6f02c5a40c19c2a5c24b3de52c2\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: On what date did the Minister learn that Steve Hurring from David Benson-Pope\u2019s office had phoned Hugh Logan to express concern about the appointment of Madeleine Setchell?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1a7ff0d25f64054b0ce538c4911c555\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I will have to come back to the member. I do not have all the times and dates in front of me, but I am happy to come back very shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d42f4152bd14739bae3943aded387d5\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Has she received any reports on file notes that were made by the State Services Commissioner, Dr Prebble?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f964362fe0234d6b96a22522b909c0f9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I told this House on 16 August that I have not asked Dr Prebble whether he kept file notes on his discussion or interactions with Hugh Logan regarding the Setchell affair. Such matters are now before the independent investigation by Mr Don Hunn. Yesterday Mr Brownlee tried to mislead the House by implying that I had seen a file note and that I knew about the issue of whether the file notes existed. I repeat that I had no idea whether such notes existed, and that is a matter for Mr Hunn to investigate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c50d70ec3e24f698752a16abef24824\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the first she had heard of this matter was in the discussion she held with the Acting State Services Commissioner on 3 July, despite the fact that the ninth floor of the Beehive knew, the Ministry for the Environment knew, the State Services Commissioner knew, the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s office knew, and numerous journalists knew and had known of the matter for some 5 weeks; and will she further assure the House that none of her ministerial office staff knew of this matter before that date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223048f5948c1643b3a086fdfc4a747fd9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd7068bfa3734056a359fb4e94bc47a6\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister then agree that although from 30 May the ninth floor of the Beehive knew about this matter, the State Services Commissioner knew about this matter, the Ministry for the Environment knew about this matter, David Benson-Pope and his office knew about this matter, the Leader of the Opposition and his office knew about this matter, and numerous journalists knew about the matter and were beginning to write about it, she apparently did not know anything for 5 weeks and would have us believe that she did not know anything about David Benson-Pope\u2019s intervention for some 8 weeks; and does not this make it look very much as if she is part of a \u201Ccover up until you are caught\u201D deal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d2b2458d8844521a59a7018067ec36f\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I can do no more than say that those are the facts. I was not informed about this issue until Mr Rennie told me, in a routine meeting, and he told me about an employment matter problem with the ministry. It was not a matter of going into issues about Mr Benson-Pope or Mr Logan, as this member is trying to imply, and I take exception to the idea that there was a cover-up. In fact, I think that most people have had enough of that member trying to make out that the Public Service and senior public servants have been trying to cover up anything. I believe that that member does not have a feather to fly on but that he is trying to find one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d333708b21a240908475b898eec4e876\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: If there was\u2014[Interruption] What was that? Madam Speaker, the paint is starting to peel off the walls; it is unfortunate that Mrs Pettis is back to her old tricks again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a841d006910d400594843b1b24a9e5d0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member have a question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c95ffbe846242d2969eafb71c262f74\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I do, Madam Speaker. If there was no cover-up, if there was no problem, and if the State Services Commissioner is beyond reproach, why is Don Hunn investigating this matter; and will his eventual report be just another part of the whitewash of this whole issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da75e84920164481b876321f6b3eb353\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Hunn is investigating so that we can stop the sort of kangaroo court and innuendoes that have been coming from the National Party for weeks over this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227819684437c942e1bc0a81c5b308e762\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Just tell the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1301ead73964f5a9c133d990abd4a85\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I take exception to the comment just made by Gerry Brownlee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f044d59710f2453db786ed64153f17ee\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Exception has been taken. Would the member withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022615f7ffa36d74eeb9ce1cc1594f2a136\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. On no fewer than eight occasions last week the Government screamed across to members on this side of the House: \u201CTell the truth.\u201D , and no offence was taken. In fact, there was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022334a64c314c64136ab817c41507346bd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand what the member is saying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f5c8d62c44b4328a83de0b8e0700364\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, it is important\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca311ec0838e46fe809e63602827c983\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please would the member be seated. The point is that if members do take exception, it is the convention in this House that the member withdraws and apologises. There is nothing to stop members from taking exception or not taking exception, but when they do, that is the procedure we follow. Would the member please withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022871514657fa044fe9a5e811a9eb73223\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder whether you could convey that convention to your assistant, Mrs Hartley, who did not follow that through numerous Committee stages last week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b29767fdafa7435a85963a409971b82a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The member knows that he cannot raise that in this context. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1a179c033164344864c80a195c95af2\u0022\u003EWaitangi Tribunal\u2014Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa; Wai 1298\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f67c49ca14940b79fd6bb4735172559\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education: He aha nga mahi kua kawea e ia hei tautuku i nga tutohutanga a te Taraipiunara o Waitangi mo Te Wananga o Aotearoa, ara, a (Wai 1298) i panuitia i te rua tekau ma toru o Hakihea, i te tau rua mano ma rima, a, ahea te Kawanatanga tuku ai i te katoa o tana urupare whai tikanga mo ia tutohutanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[What action has he taken to comply with the recommendations of the Waitangi Tribunal concerning Te Wananga o Aotearoa\u2014Wai 1298\u2014released on 23 December 2005, and when does the Government expect to release a full formal response to each recommendation?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022345543fbc5f744d68100ed0241b12ce3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022345543fbc5f744d68100ed0241b12ce3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E Discussion on a partnership agreement with the three w\u0101nanga has been proceeding for some time. I also expect to take a full formal response to the tribunal\u2019s recommendations to Cabinet in the near future for approval.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022317ed6b493df452bb68cabd42c188fbb\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: What strategies have been developed to ensure that consultation and negotiation with Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa take place between the w\u0101nanga and the Crown at the level of the council, the Minister for Tertiary Education, and the Secretary for Education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022774cc492203547869ad0bc053c14ef94\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: There have been intense and ongoing relationships between the Crown and Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa over the last 2 years or more, with the involvement, obviously, of the Crown manager and the commissioner. We have had frequent reports and engagement between the Tertiary Education Commission and the w\u0101nanga. I am confident that the w\u0101nanga is now on a very much more secure basis for future growth and development than it was some 2 years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e500e2632ebe4d55b8e6b0ba710480fe\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that the aggressive growth strategies pursued by the previous chief executive officer of Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa went way beyond the defined purpose of w\u0101nanga and placed that institution at long-term risk; and can he confirm that the current administration recognises this and has set in place policies that will strengthen the institution into the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de1448a1de80448699fcf6c1c6802107\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is a very fair comment. I think it also has to be said, and it was sometimes forgotten in the commentary on the w\u0101nanga a few years ago, that any tertiary institution that grew at the rate that that institution did over such a very short period of time would have run into major governance and management problems. It went from well under 3,000 equivalent full-time students to something like 32,000 equivalent full-time students in the space of about 4 or 5 years. It is very doubtful whether any tertiary education institution could grow at that rate without creating very significant difficulties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3c54f376b54e29814c34d7e0e8de5d\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: What administrative and financial assistance will the Minister provide to assist Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa in meeting the costs in carrying out the reviews, audits, and inquiries undergone by that institution, as recommended by the tribunal in Wai 1298?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232078bc8ab9746d1950c16d758a9ff37\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The w\u0101nanga has already had an extremely large settlement in relation to its Waitangi Tribunal claim, in terms of the capital funding of w\u0101nanga. We are, of course, still in negotiations with Raukawa, but we are approaching the completion of those in relation to its capital claim. Awanui\u0101rangi has already had its payment in terms of the capital claim. The Government will not be funding the claims to the tribunal itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f1af78e91444e6b9cf14933f2363ab6\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the cost of having Mr Brian Roche and his team at Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa has exceeded $3.2 million for the 2 years to 31 March 2007, is it likely to cost another $2,400 per day plus GST for each day they are on site for the rest of the year, and does he think that this is an acceptable cost to continue to be met by Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d89db562c01491f8e2c38bdb0eb6c2c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do, because that cost and that activity have turned around the w\u0101nanga from a position where it was not so much collapsing as exploding and had entered into all kinds of strange activities to one that is now on a secure and safe basis for the future. The progress that has been made, in conjunction with the council headed by Craig Coxhead and the chief executive of the w\u0101nanga, means that we have some reasonable confidence that, in fact, Mr Roche should be able to be withdrawn before the end of the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cd5a6ad82864a898a8e126b9846c958\u0022\u003ENorth Shore Hospital\u2014Emergency Department Services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229162ca33163946f49ae7ce285325f93b\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Was the first time he became aware that the North Shore Hospital emergency department is \u201C[not] providing an adequate service\u201D when the Prime Minister told him after her recent visit; if not, when did he first become aware?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022783ce24406994a4dac21b2d11682f37e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022783ce24406994a4dac21b2d11682f37e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I first became aware of problems at North Shore Hospital just over 12 years ago, on 30 May 1995. On that day, Parliament was advised that an elderly woman who had been taken to hospital by ambulance after breaking her arm was left to find her own way home in her nightie, after staff ejected her at 1 o\u2019clock in the morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cfa831c19a846b5b55015176306c8aa\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Given that at that time the current Prime Minister, Helen Clark, promised she would fix that situation, why, after spending $5 billion and after 8 long years in office, has the Government not fixed it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022824945a6feed48ca8879abe88496106e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member may not be aware that since the change of Government the people of Waitemat\u0101 have moved from a situation where they had one hospital to a situation where they have two. An entire new hospital has been built in the Waitakere area. There used to not be a hospital, under the National Government, in west Auckland, at all\u2014no hospital for quarter of a million people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284d289ea27a44735a69978f355594b4e\u0022\u003EAnn Hartley\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has the Minister received about the health workforce of the Waitemata District Health Board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d88d6c8508248c2978e4eac3a65b7ae\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I mentioned to the House yesterday, 6 years ago the number of doctors totalled 320, and since then that number has increased to 570. That is a 78 percent increase in that district health board\u2019s doctors\u2014an increase of 250 doctors\u2014in 6 years. As for nurses, the increases are even higher. An extra 253 nursing positions have been created, not in the past 6 years but in the past 3 years. That is what one can do when one does not have only tax cuts on one\u2019s mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246842e2d33eb438bbc4cae1b09f3e7f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the situation with the North Shore Hospital emergency department occasioned by the huge drain on resources caused by that hospital having whole wards filled with people with Third World diseases, and how on earth did that get to happen in our country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3e777b6168d4f84b54c6c87b710e786\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The health status of the people of North Shore City, which is part of the Waitemata District Health Board area, happens to be the highest in the land. But what is happening on the North Shore is that it is a very popular area to live, it has very large population increases, and it has even larger increases in the growth of its elderly population. That is why the funding increases for the Waitemata District Health Board are higher than those for any other district health board in the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa523d8f1594b8dab43bc95477e920f\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Which other emergency departments are not providing an adequate service, or is the Minister waiting for the Prime Minister to visit those ones first, as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226403b318e4fd4e719ce766728f0b35da\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: At this time of year, every year, a number of emergency departments struggle. The Capital and Coast District Health Board said about 3 weeks ago that it had had difficulty and had moved into a sort of red zone. The Canterbury District Health Board moved into a red zone for several hours a few days ago. There are difficulties in Timaru. There were\u2014but I do not think there are any now\u2014difficulties in Waikato; they may recur. This is what happens when the flu takes hold and reduces the numbers of nurses and doctors available to go to work, at the same time as it increases the number of patients who need to go to hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d1def6414be473a9882e16f84129ae5\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: In blaming the flu for the gridlock in our nation\u2019s hospitals, is the Minister aware of the comment of the current Prime Minister when in Opposition: \u201CWe know that winter brings an increase in health problems. It happens every year\u2014some years earlier in the season, some years later. But our hospitals must be ready to cope with the problems. It just isn\u2019t good enough to have basic services break down as they have.\u201D; and why, after $5 billion and 8 years of endless rhetoric, do we still have an 83-year-old woman lying on a trolley under bright lights at North Shore Hospital for 4 days on end, and a woman with a broken shin and on a drip lying in the emergency department waiting room for 12 hours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b44f7e72e4294d6db649d80c8456fad2\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Let me remind the House, yet again, that since the change of Government in December 1999, this country has been on a hospital rebuilding programme of a kind that has never been seen in living memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022373aa84033f948179a37062cf72771ba\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member gave his question in silence. Would members please give the Minister the courtesy of giving his reply in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a45bb521537c49eebbf644e03ac818c7\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: New hospitals have been built from Kait\u0101ia to Invercargill inclusive. Only a few kilometres from here an entire new regional hospital is going up in Wellington. If we go to Waitemat\u0101, we find that an expanded emergency department at North Shore Hospital was opened by my colleague Annette King, and that an entire new hospital was opened in west Auckland. That is the sort of thing one can do when one is intent on getting the rebuild under way, and intent on addressing the infrastructure deficit that the current Prime Minister mentioned when in Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e859b8b7d84aca9a1e876f6faa0136\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that patients at Palmerston North Hospital are getting an adequate service from their emergency department, when an elderly man spent nearly an hour bleeding into a garden bucket before he was treated at that emergency department; and does he agree with the current Prime Minister\u2019s pledge that a Labour Government would make sure that when someone needs a hospital bed, that person gets it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246fb9cd218db4c9685009aad89bcbada\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I will repeat this for the member. The member wants to know where the money has gone. He seems to regret the fact that we have invested heavily in health, so he decides he will say that nothing has changed. I tell him that we are on to our 28th hospital rebuild, and we will continue that rebuild. When we are elected for a fourth term we will continue that rebuild until it is done. When it is done, New Zealanders will have the hospital services that we need, and we will not have to put up with the dereliction that was created right through the 1990s when all that that member could do was get out of bed and work out how to cut taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291a35967c60a4f76b236b6d96a9109d8\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s answers to the previous questions, is he concerned that despite all of that building and despite spending an extra $5 billion per year, the public\u2019s confidence that they will get treated in an emergency department is at the lowest level that it has ever been, and the horror stories are more frightening than ever?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c52d7601b0e3474390cee8ab0f14e87b\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the member that I am not satisfied with the quality of treatment at the North Shore Hospital emergency department as it stands at the moment; neither is the Prime Minister, and neither is the board of Waitemata District Health Board. It is not satisfactory. However, if the member is going to get up in the House and say that public confidence in our health system is at the lowest level that it has ever been, I shall introduce some facts into her prejudices. I am sorry to disturb the member\u2019s prejudices, but the truth is that we measure patient satisfaction with our hospitals, and it runs at a high 80 percent approval rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3768b390eb74ab99e46a1b9ff4eebf8\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any reports that the last time Mr Ryall was a member of the Government of New Zealand, the Government he was part of closed down 88 hospitals in this country, and how did those closures help the New Zealand health system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228705a9b2f4924f89beb08144c8f5594d\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Not only can I confirm there were hospital closures under the National Government; I can confirm that the National Government sought to reduce demand by charging people to go to hospital. I remember those days, and I do not want to ever see them come back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225629e09dfa614356915592ed002642c2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question? We have a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a995bf62673457f941af228d5e2e3aa\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022187042e3e8db423e9c0a0b66be195e7d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. I had called for a supplementary question, and a member wants to ask one. The normal procedure is that we try to get through supplementary questions before members introduce points of order relating to the tabling of documents. I call the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220df266b16ec34903a9865cb6e83d9719\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister to tell me whether I have the score right: the National Government closed 88 hospitals\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201dd3926d8cf4cc5b4ae08ddee9d32dc\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f9b57b51f7b419f8b84582fdf4aa372\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014was it more\u2014the fourth Labour Government closed 29 hospitals, but the fifth Labour Government has opened 28 hospitals, so we are one behind on the Government side, and 88 behind on the Opposition side where National is concerned?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcde77c907bb450c8005e3209be5b63a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think that requires an answer. [Interruption] Please be seated. I will take the member\u2019s point of order. Would members please keep the level of noise down. It is really difficult to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9cb95096b554637a5e2996df2d4ca5a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do not know why on earth you ruled out that question, because it simply asked for a statement of fact from the Minister. It seemed that, because of the help of Mr Jim Anderton, he had most of the figures at his disposal\u2014first, from Jim Anderton, and, now, from myself. All I wanted to know was whether it was true or not true. The question should not be ruled out because those members cannot stand the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dd33647a05e4ff4a54ca25c4b9fa1a2\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: The member has asked for a factual answer to his particular question. Perhaps he himself should have used some facts in the first place, because there have never been 88 hospitals in this country, let alone 88 closed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291a1f226208d4c8cb2f30520fe993b11\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We are now moving into debate, not points of order. [Interruption] Please be silent; would you please be seated when I am on my feet. I will address the Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2019 point of order. He did ask a question, it was in terms of the Standing Orders, so would the Minister please respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b725fd1bd72c4b15817d6eb5c0289102\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: With pleasure. The fact of the matter is that I could not keep count of how many hospitals National closed, so I am not able to confirm that there were 88. But I am able to confirm afresh that the current building programme, in dollars, in number of hospitals, in number of beds, in tonnes of concrete\u2014by whatever measure one would like to take\u2014is the largest in this country in living memory, and this Government will be back in a year\u2019s time to continue it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293acd430408c47da80634ddc098371e3\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article on Christchurch Hospital\u2019s \u201CWorst \u2018red gridlock\u2019 in hospital\u2019s history.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214de2caf2b3246dba0aff8c3e7a5fadb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022680908c93dc846bb8746dae7328f80ba\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a report showing that although 250 doctors have been employed by the Waitemata District Health Board, well over 200 extra managers and administrators have also been employed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022065b42bdad394327aa258f0a3a3beed3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae608f67af046c885c824c485b96522\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing that in the last year, although dozens of nurses, dozens of doctors, and dozens of ancillary health professionals were employed by the Waitemata District Health Board, the number of support workers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e39a16b340846e78f6e0c2e6c6e279b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fb608bf4efe4c5184fc2a0f5ed43f2e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: For the benefit of Mr Jim Anderton, I seek leave to table a list of the 23 hospitals closed by Helen Clark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223660d5a9248e4b488e7aed68a0fbf4cd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002283316bcf3a5b4f7ca4aae0af96ba56f4\u0022\u003EEnergy\u2014Alternative Sources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8d08172224a4d7b92be77fc229630cd\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: What reports, if any, has he received on the establishment of a new contestable fund to help bring forward the use of alternative energy sources?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00225f683cb72e7445aa95374a140fc6727a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f683cb72e7445aa95374a140fc6727a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Last night the Prime Minister launched a Low Carbon Energy Technologies Fund of $4 million per year. This will help bring forward the use of further renewable energy sources such as bio-diesel from algae and sewage, biomass, and deep geothermal. There is no doubt that this Government is taking many significant steps towards carbon neutrality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264d228d451094b69821e11e3276a8c06\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister able to confirm that the Low Carbon Energy Technologies Fund is additional to the marine energy fund launched with the Government\u2019s draft energy policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fca9c4044bde409fa0a9c458bbe73983\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can. The low carbon fund is additional to the $8 million marine energy contestable fund. The $800 million worth of sustainability initiatives foreshadowed in the Budget are making a real difference. Yesterday\u2019s announcement also added $2.5 million for dealing with the impacts of climate change on our primary sector and infrastructure\u2014yet more progress towards carbon neutrality\u2014and there are more announcements to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec6abfaef220448894ebdf8f50e24c29\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the Government is months behind on its work in developing an emissions trading system, and that, far from introducing legislation in October as promised, we are again going to get another discussion document; and is not his reason for manufacturing these minor announcements to try to hide the nakedness of any comprehensive policy around climate change after 8 years in Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b4729be6f12456abb109cc45aac0cb1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot confirm the tenor of those comments. I can confirm, in response to the concern expressed by some, including the Greens, that what is going to be produced in respect of emissions trading was only going to be a shell, that the Prime Minister quipped that if it is a shell, then it is the heaviest shell she has ever seen. There are complex technical papers that lie behind it that would weigh down a truck.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226962867174684d59862aebbd9d817dda\u0022\u003EHousing\u2014Affordability\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7274660c2e8429694afd2e8608cf7eb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: What, if anything, is the Department of Building and Housing doing to improve housing affordability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00222da1f8b0497b449bbb5bc22cca04b689\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222da1f8b0497b449bbb5bc22cca04b689\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E As I advised the member last week in answer to the same question, the Department of Building and Housing is working in partnership with a number of agencies in developing a range of housing affordability proposals, including the investigation of shared equity. This is part of the Government\u2019s wider work programme on housing affordability. Specifically, the department has introduced changes to the building code, as I said last week, on energy efficiency, to save families in new homes between $760 and $1,800 per year on their energy bill. The department is also progressing a suite of reforms to transform the sector that include occupational licensing for building practitioners, a review of the building code, and the accreditation of building consent authorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e27c0881784e88a74e3c7cfd7938a0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the analysis by the Registered Master Builders Federation of New Zealand that the single biggest cost difference between building a house in New Zealand and in Australia is the cost of consents, fees, and levies, and its analysis that these have risen 900 percent under his Government; if so, will he endorse John Key\u2019s call for reform to get these costs down and make houses more affordable? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c13ce08c63043d5abdfeb7967d63964\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of the chief executive of the Registered Master Builders Federation, Mr Pieter Burghout, claiming that 30 percent of the increase in the cost of a basic house represents regulatory costs, plus 20 percent labour and material costs. The other 50 percent is the increase in land costs. I am advised that of the 30 percent I have quoted, 15 percent are local authority infrastructure levies and fees\u2014for example, development levies that local authorities choose the quantum of to charge, not the Government\u2014and 15 percent are other local authority charges, Resource Management Act and building consent charges, and costs of delays in variability in the consenting process. The auditing and consenting of local authorities we are undergoing now will alleviate this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b292aea63df44c3e80fa641fd8a927d8\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the evidence submitted to the Commerce Committee by the Registered Master Builders Federation is that the time taken to obtain consents has quadrupled, and that the average construction time to build a new house has gone from 12 to 22 weeks since the new Building Act came into force\u2014a prime example of bureaucratic overkill\u2014and does he intend to do something about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d72be18abc544e718c5e2b20d6107ebe\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the last point, we are. I am aware of delays in the building consent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022701d4d98481b4a1d846db0793a1f795d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s getting worse!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cde4f6a89a0e4ebab51ad64c791a0b5e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I tell the member to just breathe quietly. I am aware of delays in the building consent process. The way to address organisational failure in any entity is to go through and organisationally audit the entity to find out whether it has enough staff, whether it has enough resource, and whether its processes are adequate and efficient. That is what one does. One does not do what the member opposite wanted to do in the legislation he tried to put through this House, in which if a council did not meet the 20-day mark, the person who wanted the consent got the consent for free, and the ratepayer took on all the sunk costs. That bill, which that member proposed, was not endorsed by the National Party East Coast branch chairperson\u2014I think her name was Seymour\u2014who called it \u201Cdaft\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0f2e45333ec4e4eb6f3ec2ebf38402b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister reconcile the self-congratulatory statement by Lianne Dalziel yesterday in the House that the Government has led \u201Cthe most effective review of red tape that this country has ever seen\u201D with the statement by the Wellington City Council last week: \u201CA typical house plan 4 years ago was three A3-sized plans and 30 supplementary pages. Now builders are required to file 12 A3-sized plans and up to 300 pages of supplementary documentation.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad258f4c39444377b824821bbb20a53e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I remind the member that the 1991 building code, which his Government passed\u2014the national building code\u2014sets permissive performance standards for buildings. The code leaves it up to local consenting authorities\u2014that is, local councils\u2014to determine the actual rules and requirements for compliance with the code and the set of relevant charges attached to it. In essence, the code leaves it to the local authorities to set those rules. That is why this Government is in the process of reviewing the building code, in the first review since 1991. The second discussion document is out now, and I invite the member to submit on it as other learned entities are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b174a8fc42794f75af90f6c867dc9090\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that according to the Registered Master Builders Federation, drafting and specification work for a new house has quadrupled since the Building Act came into force, and that builders are now drawing plans for the local authority rather than for the builder; and does he agree that in moving to regulation from deregulation we have swung the pendulum too far, thus putting the cost of new houses out of reach for many young New Zealand families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227b7ba2cc1c545329833a53bbf5711e8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: For the member\u2019s benefit I will quote again. I am advised that of the 30 percent Mr Burghout quoted before the committee, only 15 percent of those costs were local authority charges, Resource Management Act charges, and building consent fees and charges. If we move back, as John Key said he wanted us to do, in his speech to the New Zealand Contractors Federation of 20 August\u2014where he effectively said he would deregulate the industry again, as the previous National Government did so that there were no rules, anybody could pick up a tool belt and call themselves a builder, and apprenticeships were done away with, which this Government has brought back\u2014then I say to that member: be it on his own head, because that is how we got the leaky buildings scenario we are charged with fixing up now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b1714b27e4d42d086cdbc66beea3e0e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What action did the Minister take in response to the letter from the Registered Master Builders Federation to him on 20 October last year that states: \u201CAbout $30,000 of the cost of the average new home is attributable to unnecessary regulatory red tape\u201D, and does his failure to address these issues after more than a year not show that this Government is part of the problem of home affordability and not part of the solution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1783a4b3aab4001969f6d5dee466c14\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Like all dutiful Ministers on this side, I reply to letters. I say again to the member that these issues are why we are embarked on the first review of the building code since 1991. Under his Government in 1991 that member put in place a permissive performance set of standards for buildings that effectively said, for the benefit of the House: \u201CYou must build a house that does not blow over in the wind. How you achieve that, local councils, is up to you. You local councils set the rules, and we will set the performance standards.\u201D That is why we are embarked on a review of the building code, and if the member would like, I am happy to send him a copy of the discussion documents so that he can put forward his view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214560e7517fd410c9fbfb7634af86be1\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document that will make an utter nonsense of the claims by Clayton Cosgrove, that document being the speech made by John Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0c0b23a2936403da69b0aebb9af527a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table this document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5aac8294cb44c48ad0ede5da46ace7f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table the speech made by the Hon George Hawkins saying that only Labour could claim credit for the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c858c98f997e4266919de58e01a03610\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b142e24142d74b888461c5f3f9c690f9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the letter of the Registered Master Builders Federation to the Minister on 20 October last year, saying that unnecessary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3b0d6a79a8640098f971bbe7200b964\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EQuestion time interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9971d7e1edd42ee96e647238bc610d6\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5a3c4f0602040ada67f75d30a0664fb\u0022\u003ESignage in the Chamber\u2014New Zealand Labour Party\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3188013d3d244bd951baa57c24e0208\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3188013d3d244bd951baa57c24e0208\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You will recall yesterday that the Business Committee indicated that the use of the boxes with the Labour Party display on them was permissible in the short term. I refer you to the Speaker\u2019s ruling on visual aids on page 53. There is a ruling here that basically makes it very clear that such a visual aid cannot obscure a member from the view of the Speaker. I notice looking down at the back of the House that there is a member, Ms Mackey, who is completely invisible because of the box in front of her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aa22c9d24c740eb97d143743962a7ee\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, that is not a valid point of order. The member knows that that matter has already been dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002272398677563d4e2d8c942c4410eae3b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272398677563d4e2d8c942c4410eae3b1\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My real reason for raising that point of order was the assurance that unattended boxes would be removed from the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3d5256030214c4e8de21251b9cb0627\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It would be very helpful if the member would make his point of order clearly instead of trying to score points. As with all rules, members have to be informed of that through their caucus, and after the break the rule will be strictly enforced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EQuestion time resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222047fd47e21c484f8a4f02639400e2ee\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225392d6bc4f7349fa932174d0f04a7495\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022799a7c07dc754db8a71899af05c2aa8e\u0022\u003EPrisons\u2014Cellphones\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4231afb83cc4f5f961410dfb37d42ed\u0022\u003E11. JILL PETTIS (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: What steps is the Government taking to restrict the use of cellphones in prisons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022117b45fdf18548fa9e1403ab9c6b0955\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022117b45fdf18548fa9e1403ab9c6b0955\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Today the Department of Corrections has signed a formal agreement that provides the department with the ability to block the use of cellphones in prisons. The deal is a world first. Technology solutions will roll out nationwide, starting within 6 weeks at Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Prison. Between 20 and 30 available technologies have been tested, and we now have a range of solutions that can be implemented across the prison system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226014ddd5d0174bffa6da64fa47d94d5d\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: What other measures have been introduced to prevent cellphones from getting into prisons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bcc93e932ac4cd296200b8351b6c161\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am glad that question was asked. Preventing cellphones and other contraband items from entering prisons, and apprehending those who do attempt to smuggle them in, have been amongst my highest priorities. I am about to introduce amendments to the Corrections Act that will boost search powers and stiffen penalties for anyone who is foolish enough to bring communications devices, drugs, or weapons into prisons. We already have intelligence-gathering systems in each and every prison. We have doubled the number of drug-dog teams. We have 17 kilometres of new security fencing around our prisons. We have shifted towards a single point of entry at all our prison sites. We are moving on this international challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce1159461eba486d86d4fd4be75f245f\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Will this new technology work at Mount Eden Prison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221074f74d88e48ba983a8cc610a9ece0\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The Department of Corrections will be working with the telecommunications companies to ensure that cellphone jamming technology will be used as long as it does not interfere with legitimate cellphone users. It is possible to use it at Mount Eden Prison, I am told, and the Department of Corrections will work with the companies to ensure that that can happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3f6d3c16b004e01b8fd52e7b790c609\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister not agree with New Zealand First\u2019s view that part of the problem we have with cellphone usage in prisons and the smuggling of them into prisons has been the \u201Cwet bus ticket\u201D approach that has been taken towards inmates who have been found to be in possession of cellphones; if he does agree that past approaches have been of the \u201Cwet bus ticket\u201D types\u2014that is, no extra sentencing; no extra prison term\u2014what will he do about that in the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022284db294af424693be5a223d2c9781e5\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: We are moving to amend the Corrections Act to ensure that anyone who is in possession of a cellphone on a cell site without full authorisation will be prosecuted, be that person a staff member, a visitor, or a prisoner, and that such a prisoner will receive an extended prison term if he or she is prosecuted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022570ce944b2fe414dbd93bc9ae6ab0949\u0022\u003EConsumer Affairs, Ministry\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022234e881b532f487c9ad996cc5e8cbc15\u0022\u003EKATE WILKINSON (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Consumer Affairs: Does she have confidence in the Ministry of Consumer Affairs; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u002209b7c622302447e6b3751fa201cca4ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209b7c622302447e6b3751fa201cca4ba\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; because it is a small but hard-working ministry. But I am sure there is always room for improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b64cdc3bc9984d8dbd3960126aba82d9\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: Why should we believe that the Minister is concerned about consumer safety when she has not recommended a single product safety standard for 2 years, when only six have been recommended in the last 6 years, and when the formaldehyde content in textiles was raised as a concern in the Australian media 3 months ago yet nothing has been done about it until this week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214b3b4135f7746a3b12c2677f59f8277\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: Because the legislation under which our consumer law operates\u2014which was described by David Russell, the former chief executive officer of the Consumers Institute, as a fine, elegant standard, which is much admired internationally\u2014has absolute standards. Every good must be safe and fit for the purpose for which it is intended. We have good standards, and those standards are very well managed. However, what we cannot do is stand by every consumer and tell them what to buy and what not to buy. We have to be active, intelligent, well-informed consumers. We have done a great deal. We have had mandatory recalls for hot-water bottles. We have had mandatory recalls for tongue studs. We have had many voluntary recalls, including, I have to say, in the last 2 hours a voluntary recall of blankets by Spotlight Stores (NZ) Ltd, when high levels of formaldehyde were found after voluntary testing undertaken in Australia. That affects 850 blankets. The system is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224ca25bb07f644ffb39f40c9accf7778\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: Why should we believe that she is concerned about consumer safety when she has not recalled a single product in the last 12 months, or that voluntary recalling of products is working well, when in the last 12 months only 17 product recalls have been made, compared with over 200 for the same period in Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca7a3ce671f54ac0aaf2e39771b225c5\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: Wherever goods are found to be unsafe they are subject either to a voluntary recall or to a mandatory recall. The system is working very well in New Zealand, and this Government has properly funded the Commerce Commission to investigate the Fair Trading Act. We have increased the number of staff in the Ministry of Consumer Affairs. We are working closely with other ministries and other countries, and the absolutely independent former chief executive officer of the Consumers Institute say that our system is both efficient and widely admired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faf9863892e0498ebf9e4c3cc0870460\u0022\u003EDianne Yates\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister remind the House when and why the Ministry of Consumer Affairs was established and what its role is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec32eedcb4d4473cb25f377381844eae\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hope the question is answered in a succinct manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fff14ad63f446d8b1bdbd0dc538aaa6\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, Madam Speaker. Since it was established by the fourth Labour Government the Ministry of Consumer Affairs has effectively maintained safety standards. For example, its work covers the development of consumer policy, consumer protection, product safety, and weights and measures. It provides appropriate, accurate, and accessible information, education, and advice to consumers and to businesses on consumer laws and issues. What is more, the New Zealand market overwhelmingly works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6d508ad37dc4a288aa80f3a2bc689a6\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that we have a product safety standard for toys relating to small parts, yet we have nothing from the Minister on the hazardous chemical residues on children\u2019s clothing and nothing on the lead content of paint used to paint those toys?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d894860e17184243be1e0b74b3e1f2c2\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: All goods sold in New Zealand must be safe and fit for the purpose for which they are intended. We have very good standards, and we see them enforced. The recalls are an example of the system working. I am astonished that the Opposition, which despises all consumer support, is trying to attack us and the Ministry of Consumer Affairs for an excellent system that works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002241499bab3147405c92d33d0f190d0d43\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002263a399816f53466faa503d43308f349a\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002247493780b70a4db58053bfa7c1db26e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247493780b70a4db58053bfa7c1db26e3\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. Well, it really has been a bad week for the Government, has it not? What a shocker! It is only Wednesday and it has been a bad week for the Government, and I say that it will take more than all the formaldehyde in China to preserve that Government beyond 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EOne did not have to read about it in the Dominion Post, but, as it turns out, I did. I thought the front page was quite interesting: \u201CLabour support crumbling\u201D. The interesting bit in the story was from Michael Cullen, who said: \u201CI don\u2019t comment too much on polls,\u201D and he believed that John Key\u2019s honeymoon was over. Well, if it is over when I am 20 percent ahead, that is quite an interesting observation really, is it not! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EIt has been a bad week for a Government that has forgotten who put it in office. The Government does not care about the people of New Zealand any more. Last week when the financial markets were in crisis the Minister of Finance did not even know that the banks in New Zealand were having meetings to try to prop up liquidity. He did not know\u2014which was my guess\u2014that Nathans Finance was going to fall over on Monday, because that Government is so out of touch with New Zealand. The Government is so out of touch with New Zealand and everyday New Zealanders that it does not care about the big issues any more. It is prepared to trade 10 years of a relationship with Australia over a simple attack job here domestically on me. The Government thinks that that is more important. It is no wonder that New Zealanders are looking at the Government and saying: \u201CWe don\u2019t want them any more.\u201D Because when one starts being prepared to trade one\u2019s relationship, then it tells one that things are going terribly wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is going terribly wrong is the right of New Zealanders who want to have a chance to stand up and say what they think about politics in New Zealand. I tell members that the Labour members may not know much about the Electoral Finance Bill, but they know more than Mark Burton, the Minister who is actually running it, does. My colleague Bill English has been asking Mark Burton questions, and Mr Burton cannot answer any of them. It has got so bad that Bill English now has to give 24 hours\u2019 notice so Mark Burton can scurry back to his office and try to get an answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWhen we asked Helen Clark today what role she had played in this, she thought that was a silly question and did not want to answer it, because she knows that that bill will not last. New Zealanders are not going to support an assault on their democracy such as we are seeing from Labour. I am not surprised that Labour members are silent, because they know that it is wrong. They know that New Zealanders are entitled to have their say, and that that bill will stop them having their say. They will become second-class citizens with that legislation, which does not even deserve to be called a bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EI will make this prediction: Mark Burton will be gone before that bill has gone, but both of them are going, pretty soon. That is what we know. Judith Tizard and Rick Barker will also be gone\u2014actually, anybody in the Labour Government with a name starting with a \u201CB\u201D is gone\u2014Benson-Pope, Barker, and Burton are gone, and quite a few others are going as well. They deserve to go if they are going to treat New Zealanders with disrespect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EEarlier on this year my colleague Bill English made it quite clear that the National Party was prepared to be in consultation about electoral law reform. That is the way it happens. We do not have an Upper House in this country, and we do not have a written constitution. New Zealanders rely on electoral law that is passed, not with the intention of keeping the ruling party in power, not with the intention of screwing the scrum, and not with the intention of being the only bastion that will stop them from electoral oblivion. The reason we have electoral reform on a bipartisan basis is that we rely on that basis to pass good legislation. What is the intent of this legislation? It is to get the Exclusive Brethren, and anybody else who wants to speak out against Labour, and they did not consult us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EQuite interestingly, they did not consult the M\u0101ori Party or ACT, either. On Saturday morning, anybody watching Agenda would have seen Guyon Espiner say that Helen Clark counts the M\u0101ori Party on her side of the ledger. So they are good enough to have, maybe, in a future Government with Labour, but they are not good enough to consult on this legislation!   \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u002299214a137509433b95a8626e4c0e34c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299214a137509433b95a8626e4c0e34c8\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker; kia ora t\u0101tou. I have some awesome questions for my M\u0101ori Party colleagues, because I suspect they will know some of the answers, but there may well be others in the House who have the answers to these questions. I ask members to put up their hands if they have heard of the United Nations. Very good; well done. I ask them to put up their hands if they believe that New Zealand places a high value on our relationship with the United Nations. Well done; excellent. Last year New Zealand gave $7.7 million to the 2007 United Nations budget and, on top of that, we contributed $15.3 million to 14 UN peacekeeping operations and nearly $1 million to the international criminal tribunals for Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia. And it is not just about money; we have contributed largely, in terms of personnel and services, to many UN missions over the years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHas this high-value relationship just happened overnight, I ask my M\u0101ori Party colleagues? No, no\u2014hell, no. Some 62 years ago New Zealand took the plunge, and we put up our hands to become a foundation member of the UN. Our Prime Minister at the time, Sir Peter Fraser, chaired the committee that wrote the trusteeship chapter of the United Nations Charter. We have been a member from time to time of a number of the key UN committees since 1945, including the General Assembly and the Security Council. Indeed, New Zealanders have held some top jobs there. The Unesco World Heritage Committee is currently chaired by the Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa paramount chief Tumu te Heuheu, Sir Lesley Munro was President of the UN General Assembly in 1957, we have been elected to membership of the Security Council three times, Sir Kenneth Keith is a judge on the International Court of Justice, and Mr Paul Hunt is the special rapporteur on the right to health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHow seriously do we take UN calls to action? Let us take just one area. New Zealand has been a staunch supporter of the international campaign against terrorism, responding rapidly and substantively to United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 through contributions to political, diplomatic, legal, intelligence, and military initiatives. We have also signed up to Operation Enduring Freedom through the deployment of ground, naval, and air troops, and we are now party to all 12 UN anti-terrorism conventions. So the big question is, what will we do with the latest UN report on New Zealand from the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, also known as \u201CCERD\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWhat are we talking about here? It is racial discrimination. Perhaps a definition we could start off with might be something like this: racism occurs when one group of people is perceived to be inferior and deviant, and another group is perceived to be superior and normal. Well, the UN committee identified that the New Zealand Government\u2019s actions \u201Ctend to diminish the importance and relevance of the Treaty and to create a context unfavourable to the rights of Maori.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d581f74e6d474302b06d8622348d2259\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Whom did they talk to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022637f51b3b33842338cec5ac1a3507fbb\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: I will get to that. The committee was concerned that only a small percentage of the Waitangi Tribunal\u2019s recommendations are followed by the Government, depriving claimants of a right to an effective remedy. The committee was concerned by the discrepancy between the assessment made by the Crown and that made by non-governmental organisations on the foreshore and seabed issue. There are six pages of straight-to-the-point discussion and recommendations. The committee came up with 16 ideas for action, such as renewed dialogue and consultation, of which one part is our effort to have the repeal bill that is in our name put in front of this House. The committee talks about giving status to the implementation of the Treaty of Waitangi and granting the tribunal legally binding powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFinally, I ask the class of the mighty M\u0101ori Party, how do members think the Government responded? Well, it is interesting that the Rt Hon Winston Peters, in addressing the UN committee, stated: \u201CNew Zealand remains unwavering in its support for the United Nations.\u201D That is what he said. But in talking about this report, he said that it is meddlesome and that its authors were not experts on the issues they were dealing with. Dr Cullen, thankfully, had some supportive statements to make when he said that the report put the Government on notice to consider and consult carefully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWell, we have been there before. Two years ago the same committee released its findings on the Foreshore and Seabed Act, and our Prime Minister derided its work as being that of a \u201Ccommittee that sits on the outer edge of the UN\u201D. That sort of response is pretty disappointing, considering that people like Mark Solomon, the Treaty Tribes Coalition, and Joris de Bres, amongst others, also put a number of statements in front of the committee. They gave statements and supporting evidence. Some of those people are appointed by the Government, so there we go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe longer-term effects of racism short-change everybody. Racism sets groups of people against each other and makes it difficult for us to perceive our common interests, so we hope that this report will be taken very seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022b94dbbec93324af299f337eb77dfc0f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b94dbbec93324af299f337eb77dfc0f3\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I have two issues to raise with the House today. First of all, I have something that is not new; it is to do with Mr Key\u2019s inability to hold to one line of a story\u2014any story\u2014for any length of time. However, the second is new, and I will come to it. Both issues involve Mr Key\u2019s interaction with the electoral enrolment process and Mr Key\u2019s public statements about where he lived at any point in time. The second issue involves, additionally, Mr Key\u2019s interaction with the Companies Act and with the New Zealand Companies Office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EFive years ago, in June and again in July 2002, Mr Key stated publicly that he was building a house in Parnell, central Auckland, and that he was building \u201Can electorate home in Helensville\u201D, which is in west Auckland. At the time Mr Key was living in neither home, but in a third home in Remuera, in east Auckland. Clearly, Mr Key was on the move. The electorate home in Helensville clearly became more important for Mr Key, because a few months later, in October, he was enrolled in the Helensville area and he voted in Helensville where his electorate home was situated\u2014so far, so good. By 2005, however, Mr Key had changed his mind. He said publicly that he had intended to live in Helensville but that it had proved too difficult, and he did not want to vote there any more but in Parnell, where he then lived, which is where he presumably votes now. So far, all we have is a flip-flop\u2014just another flip-flop. He said he would live in Helensville, he enrolled in Helensville, and he voted in Helensville, but he then changed his mind. He may have broken the Electoral Act, but he may not have; I do not know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EBut, then, after the flip-flop came the denial. A week ago, on 15 August, it was stated: \u201CMr Key said that when he first stood for Helensville, the fact that he lived elsewhere had been front-page news,\u201D. Well, it was not front-page news that he lived elsewhere; it was front-page news that he intended to live in Helensville. That is what he told the public in June and July 2002. So he told the Electoral Enrolment Centre that he lived in Helensville, he told the public that he would live in Helensville, and he told the returning officer that he lived in Helensville when he filed his expenses, but he now denies that he ever said that. So we have a flip-flop followed by a denial. And that is Iraq all over again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EBut then things become a little more serious, because the Companies Act comes into play. In March 2002 Mr Key told the Companies Office that he lived in Remuera. That was a statutory declaration. In October 2002, 7 months later, he made another statutory declaration to the electoral enrolment people that he lived in Helensville. In March 2003, 6 months after that, he made a third statutory declaration to the Companies Office that he lived in Remuera\u2014again. In 2004 he confirmed for the Electoral Enrolment Centre that he lived in Helensville. So questions arise. I ask whether Mr Key really shifted from Remuera to Helensville to Remuera to Helensville during each of those periods, and I ask whether that is somehow possible. Quite when did Mr Key live neither in Remuera or Helensville but in Parnell, where he lives now? When did he shift to this third address? I ask whether Mr Key is aware of the provisions of the Electoral Act 1993. Did he breach the Act; if so, was it by accident or design?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EMuch more important, I ask whether Mr Key is aware of the provisions of the Companies Act. No one may mislead the Companies Act. The law is strict. Section 377 of the Companies Act states that an offence is committed if anyone makes a false or misleading statement knowing it to be false or misleading. The offence is a serious one in our law. It attracts a fine of up to $200,000 or a prison term of up to 5 years. If Mr Key were ever convicted of such an offence, he would be asked\u2014required\u2014to leave this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003ESo serious questions arise: did he live in Remuera in March 2002, and did he live in Remuera in April 2003? If he did not, in both cases or in either case has he approached the Companies Office to offer an explanation? Does the Companies Office prosecute someone who has a false address, or does it prosecute only sometimes and, if so, under what circumstances? Let me remind the House that my colleague the Hon David Parker, when confronted with a similar issue under exactly the same Act, stood down. He resumed his ministerial role only when he was able to show that the error he was accused of did not happen. There are some questions to answer, I say to Mr Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef5db1c002f043c899abb65ec34c4b6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef5db1c002f043c899abb65ec34c4b6f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E So, in our changing world, with the globalised economy, the highest interest rates in the developed world, and financial instability from here to London, here is the big question: did John Key live in Remuera in March 2002? That is it! That is it! Did John Key live in Remuera in March 2002?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e84a2042f4a4229b0c1668ac4aa6bc5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Is he telling the truth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc9bd30c9927422e8a84620a60992f01\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I want to tell Mr Mallard what the good voters of Wainui\u014Dmata have as an answer. It is: \u201CWho cares?\u201D. Their other question is: \u201CTrevor, why do you care, when you always said you cared about \u2018me\u2019?\u201D. And that is the problem for the Labour Government. That speech tells everyone who voted Labour that Labour has stopped caring about the voters and cares only, and obsessively now, about the survival of the Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe reason we had Mr Hodgson today is that Phil Goff\u2019s performance in the last 10 days has resembled a dog that goes off to chase the traffic and hits a parked car. So today we had the next best shot from the Labour Party, Darren Hughes. He was the man who got up in question time and made the big hit. When Labour voters realise that the person Helen Clark is putting into the front line on behalf of low and middle income New Zealanders\u2014people who face 18 months of going backwards between now and the next election\u2014is Darren Hughes, then those voters, too, will start leaving the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EYou see, my colleague and our leader, John Key, is absolutely right. When everyone else thought that the Labour Government was trawling through the policy options to improve the lot of New Zealanders, who are now going to pay the price of mismanaged growth, it was, in fact, trawling through the rubbish bins and the Companies Register to try to find another way to trip up a politician whom they simply cannot deal with. That is why it is getting personal and nasty, and Trevor Mallard needs to understand that whenever he or his colleagues are on TV attacking John Key, our support goes up not down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe voters want to see a positive, forward-looking vision of New Zealand, what potential it has, and where it can go, rather than see a tired, fag-end, worn-out bunch of Labour elitists who are only ever worried about where they have been and what jobs they might get between now and the election. That is all summed up by the Electoral Finance Bill. Helen Clark has done nothing more self-serving\u2014more for the Labour Party and against the people\u2014than to bring in that legislation. She has written a piece of legislation that makes sure that her useless Minister\u2014what is his name?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297f96362eca0448d922ab5321728d22e\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Burton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4af2aef703f465da9929bb14af589c1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that he and Trevor Mallard will get to spend $65,000 of public money in their electorates next year, advertising themselves; and the National candidate will be allowed to spend only $20,000. In fact, those members will get to spend $85,000, $65,000 of which is public money. In the electorate of Taup\u014D, the National candidate will win. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government has become totally self-serving and totally inward-looking. I feel sorry for the voters it has deserted, because the people who have loyally voted for Labour and expected some kind of reward for it after 8 years have been deserted. Back in 2000 people on the average wage\u2014loyal Labour voters for three elections\u2014were paying 19 percent of their income in tax; now they are paying 23 percent of their income in tax. Their interest rates are going up and their purchasing power is dropping. And if Mr Mallard is worried about the polling now, well the bite has not even come yet. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002208d7c2f9f2c34ce69d0f0acece0b8ebd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208d7c2f9f2c34ce69d0f0acece0b8ebd\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Hughes made a good point. I listened to Mr English very carefully. Amongst the things he talked about he alleged that we were a self-serving Government and that it is \u201Call about us\u201D\u2014apparently. Then he spent 2\u00BD minutes talking about what the National Party may get to spend and what the Labour Party may get to spend. He talked about National wanting to get into power and about not liking the fact that we are in power. Well, if that is not self-serving, I do not know what is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr English made another interesting point. He tried to illustrate what the voters want to see. Here is what I think the voters want to see. If John Key wants to become the Prime Minister, then the voters will want to see truth, consistency, and credibility. It does not matter how many speeches that member makes over there, whilst every 5 seconds looking up at the press gallery, grinning, and trying to drag out a bit of adoration, because he knows that the New Zealand Herald, for instance, on the topic of therapeutic goods, sliced him open. He had four dictaphones under his nose, and he still could not come out and give a consistent position on that. The New Zealand people want a bit of credible, consistent, truthful leadership, and they ain\u2019t getting it out of that man. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe should take a look at Mr Key\u2019s past. Of course, it is all right for Bill English and the mob over there to have a go at us on election spending and on all sorts of other issues, but when we have a go at them and challenge their leader to be consistent on Iraq, on therapeutic goods, on where he lives, and on climate change, which are all pretty simple questions, they cannot hack it. They send in the man who is deputy leader, who is himself inconsistent. For 8 years, on superannuation, for instance, he said he was not going to cut it, then a couple of months ago he said it was too generous and told the old folk that the votes of the 20-year-olds were not won by telling them they would be secure in their retirement and that, by the way, National might have to cut it and to means test it. So, as I said in another speech, he is about as consistent, about as solid, as a jelly on a hotplate; it sort of oozes out from all sides. I say to those members that if they want to show real leadership, then they should stand up today\u2014not even bothering to give us some policies; we know that is too difficult for them\u2014and tell us what their position is on Iraq, on climate change, on measures relating to therapeutic goods, on where John Key lives, and on the other issues Mr Hodgson raised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThose members talk about accountability and they throw arrows across here demanding accountability, but when we say: \u201CHang on a minute, you\u2019re inconsistent. The member\u2019s not credible.\u201D\u2014I cannot use the \u201Ct\u201D word, but their leader is fast and loose with a number of points in his history\u2014they do not like it, do they. They cannot hack the pace. But if our democracy is so precious\u2014to quote another member\u2014then the people are owed explanations by all members of this House, by all political parties, whether they be Government or Opposition parties. We do not ask today for the impossible. We do not ask today for a policy on climate change, a policy on housing affordability, a policy on therapeutic goods, or any of that. That height-bar is just too high for that new member and his deputy. We simply ask, on behalf of the New Zealand people, that he comes clean on a series of issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr English challenged us to say what we have done for our core constituency. Well, I say to Mr English that there have been 350,000 new jobs since 1999 and we have the lowest M\u0101ori unemployment figures on the record of counting. Under the Working for Families programme, 350,000 families are getting their own money back in tax credits of, on average, 110 bucks a week. That can be compared with yet another inconsistent point, which is that he wants to gut Working for Families and pull out 50 or 80 bucks a week from that average sum. Opposition members have all gone a bit quiet\u2014the old bantam hens over there\u2014have they not. To quote from Dad\u2019s Army, they do not like the old cold steel. Well, I say that if they are going to get in the ring, throw it about, and exercise their democratic right to call individuals in this House to account, then they should look in the mirror and be prepared to stand up\u2014especially the Cheshire cat in the back row\u2014and answer some basic questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022 data-id=\u00224b409114e79d473998a7df7fd093e758\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b409114e79d473998a7df7fd093e758\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E These are indeed troubled times for many New Zealanders, because they look at the state of the financial markets, at the difficulties confronting many as they try to tackle the maintenance of their homeownership, and at the fact that something like 750 New Zealanders a week are leaving to live in Australia, according to statistics released for the year to the end of July. They look to the people who hold ministerial warrants, the people with flash houses, and the people with chauffeur-driven limousines, and they ask what the Ministers of the Crown in this Government are doing to make their lives more secure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EWhat those Ministers are doing is trawling through the wastepaper baskets behind John Key. That is what the Ministers of the Crown in this Government are doing. That is all they are doing, and New Zealanders are entitled to draw the most uncharitable conclusions about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EI have a simple message for the Labour Government today, which is that it should stop playing petty politics over New Zealand\u2019s international relationships. In the last week we have seen that playing petty politics with New Zealand\u2019s international relationships comes at a price. It comes at a price for New Zealanders and it has come, in particular, at a price for New Zealand\u2019s national airline. It is indeed ironic that we should see such outbursts of partisanship at a time when we have the most bipartisan Opposition leader on international relations to sit in this Parliament in over 30 years\u2014the most bipartisan Leader of the Opposition on international relations this Parliament has seen in over 30 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EI would have thought that the Labour Government would embrace such a moment. I would have thought that Labour members would say it is great that they can take international relations off the domestic political agenda. But in the last week, and in previous months, we have seen that it does not really matter what it costs New Zealand, as long as Labour members can find some cheap line to throw at the political juggernaut that is bowling over the lot of them. I want to remind the House of the cost the national airline will pay, and I would ask the Ministers opposite whether they will give us information on this, because New Zealanders deserve to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EMr Goff and other Ministers decided to drag Mr Key\u2019s name through debates in this Chamber by trying to bring international relations, unnecessarily, into the political debate. They were prepared to put almost anything at risk. We have seen as a consequence that the Minister\u2019s relationship with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade has been put at risk, that the relationship with the national flag carrier has been put at risk, and, most important, that our most important international relationship\u2014that with Australia\u2014has been put at risk. At the end of last week we would have thought that they had learnt their lesson, that they would draw a line under this and move on, but just yesterday we saw the Minister of Defence\u2014the former Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2014yet again taking another cheap shot in the direction of the Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs. I say that it is time that that tactic stopped. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EI want the Ministers opposite to tell this House today just what the cost will be for Air New Zealand. We know that $18 million worth of charters are now at risk, but what New Zealanders have yet to grasp is that Air New Zealand conducts a great deal of work for the Australian Defence Force. It does a great deal of mechanical engineering work for the Royal Australian Air Force, and I want Ministers to tell us just how many of those contracts have been put at risk. What will the Australian Government\u2019s position mean for those contracts? What will it mean for new contracts? New contracts are coming up for tender in the coming weeks. Will New Zealand be able to tender for those contracts? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EWe know that the Royal Australian Navy uses Air New Zealand\u2019s workshops for significant work on the gas turbines on their frigates. Are those contracts at risk? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea959aa8a6a142f391dc268c7aaa86b7\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: John Key agrees with Helen Clark on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c85a917b717f47928eea8419acd3f013\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think that New Zealanders are entitled to know what the cost is. We know that Air New Zealand derives in total some tens of millions of dollars of revenue from those contracts, and we want an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002262c3c5bbfa6d44588d0875122aac12e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262c3c5bbfa6d44588d0875122aac12e8\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealanders are entitled to know National\u2019s policy on anything that its members have raised in this House today. It is a very interesting debate when we hear members of the Opposition getting up and saying a whole lot of things, but not being prepared to put some substance behind those things. It is a typical Opposition strategy to create a doom and gloom image, say anything, bring in the marketing guru, and then say anything again. That has been the strategy adopted by National members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ETo put it quite simply, National is not reflecting the real concerns of people on the ground. In fact, what we are hearing out there is something to this effect: \u201CYou know, John Key says all the right things, but we\u2019re not sure about the detail. You get the feeling he\u2019s going to say what he thinks you want to hear, but not what he really believes in. When are we really going to hear the detail? We know the policy, but what are they really going to do? We have had enough of the marketing strategy.\u201D That is what New Zealanders out on the ground are saying, but National wants us to believe otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ELabour has been listening to the real issues out there that people care about, the real issues that they believe this Government is addressing, the real issues that they know make a difference to the lives of families\u2014families with children, the elderly, and people who are disadvantaged within our communities. When we get that feeling that there is a bit of a movement and a swelling on the ground that John Key says all the right things but that people are not sure about the detail\u2014they get the feeling he will say what he thinks they want to hear but not what he believes\u2014we know that there is a marketing strategy there that is just for TV, and just for Parliament, that has nothing to do with people out there on the ground, in the community. I can tell by the way National members are looking down at the floor that they know it, too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EDealing with real issues is about affecting the lives of people in our communities, for example through establishing low-cost visits to general practitioners and low-cost prescriptions. Those affect real people, real lives. Income-related rentals affect real people, real lives, so does ensuring that in our communities we have more skilled and trained people. Just last night I was in the south Waikato district at a ceremony to celebrate the increased number of Modern Apprentices who are now coming through in Tokoroa. It was fantastic. The mayor himself said that never before had they had such commitment from the Government, from industry training organisations, and from local businesses, to say that the trade sector was a priority. Small communities like Tokoroa are growing their own apprentices and now those apprentices have the ability to contribute back to their communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThat is what real people are feeling on the ground. They are quite excited, actually, about the level of investment that this Government is making, alongside communities, to improve the lives of a lot of people. More important, my colleague Clayton Cosgrove pointed to the issue of employment and to the increased number of jobs we have had out there. We know that affecting the real lives of people, and families with children, is done through giving people the ability to have a job, put kai on the table, and look after their own. That is what people want, and that is what they have seen under this Government. There are also rates rebates for low-income homeowners. Again, that is a policy that affects the real lives of real people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EBut what would National have us believe? They would have us believe that all that does not matter, and that it is not making a difference. We can go into any small community and its people will tell us that Government policies have gone quite a bit towards helping them meet their annual costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E What is most important is that we are investing in families with children through tax credits, not through tax cuts that would benefit only a few. Investing in families with children through the Working for Families package has continued to make a difference. We can always do more there, and we intend to. National is very light on detail, but what it is not telling people is that that investment would go under a National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ESo although the marketing strategy may work for Parliament and for TV, those people out on the ground, real families with real commitments who have a real sense of wanting to do better for themselves, know that if National gets in, all that will go. Out on the ground people know that although National members are so hungry to get on to the Treasury benches that they will say what people want right up until the election, after the election, bang, they will do something else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThat is at the core of the question asked by my colleague Pete Hodgson. We have to be able to believe what someone says, and we want to have a sense that at the very top of the Opposition leadership the Leader of the Opposition is able to tell the truth and to say what he believes, not what he thinks people want to hear. That is the kind of difference that I think in time will reveal itself and will really show a lot of New Zealanders that that leadership is all style, no substance, and no detail whatsoever. New Zealanders deserve better than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba4da65ea4e64d82a9df0ce6c9c0a556\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba4da65ea4e64d82a9df0ce6c9c0a556\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kiwi cancer patients are suffering needlessly because the technology that could streamline their treatment is not available publicly here in New Zealand, and it is not likely to be for quite some time. It is not fair, it is not just, and it is blatantly wrong. The Ministry of Health has been dithering around about the purchase of a publicly funded PET scanner, which is a positron emission tomography scanner, since mid-2005 and we are still no closer. A recent TV3 news report stated that we are about 3 years away from that\u20143 long years. It is a totally unbelievable wait for cancer sufferers and for cancer doctors, who are also pushing for one of these publicly funded PET scanners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIt is a fact that these scanners have been available in Australia since 1992. The patient is injected with a very small amount of radioactive glucose, which provides a very clear image of cancer sites and gives doctors a very clear indication of the stage of the tumour and what treatment is required, and, of course, it is used for monitoring after the therapy to see whether the tumour is still alive. PET scanning has become a benchmark for staging cancer and New Zealanders have great difficulty accessing it. An 84 percent accuracy in the diagnosis of cancer is as important as an 86 percent specificity of the rate of cancer. Basically a PET scanner ensures the best treatment option for that particular patient. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EOver in Australia\u2014and I am definitely not one to push the boat of Australia\u2014they work on a ratio of having one to 1.5 publicly funded PET scanners for every 1 million of their population. They currently have 16 scanners in 13 locations, seven contracted facilities, and one cyclotron to produce the radioactive material for every four scanners. So the Australians have at least four cyclotrons and they are actually looking at increasing their PET facilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand we do not have a publicly funded scanner. We would love to have one. We would like to have one cyclotron, as well. It would be very beneficial. Two would be beyond belief. What do we have here in New Zealand? We have patients travelling to Australia at their own expense. Last year 43 patients paid their own way to Australia for a scan, and 53 patients were funded by district health boards. I would imagine that not one of those patients came from the far north or the East Coast. There is a facility at Wakefield Hospital, and some private patients, and some very fortunate people from Capital and Coast, actually get to use it. The glucose solution is flown in from Australia pretty regularly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe need our own facility in New Zealand. We know that it could cost up to $20 million to set one up, but one surgeon estimated that the savings on lung cancer alone could be up to $600,000 per year. Overall it has been estimated that at least $3.5 million is wasted on unnecessary surgery for cancer patients. We know that cancer causes 29 percent of all deaths in this country, and it is estimated that by 2011 this will increase to 47 percent, which is estimated to be 22,000 cancer patients. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EResearch that could save lives and expedite treatment should be a priority for the Ministry of Health. But what has happened? The bureaucracy is spinning into action and committees have been formed\u2014a real committee-fest. The Cancer Treatment Working Party presented a report to the Ministry of Health in mid-2005. The National Service and Technology Review Advisory Committee provided an update to the Minister of Health in November 2006. We have a Service Planning and New Health Intervention Assessment committee looking at new health interventions. That committee is somehow involved. Then the business case was considered by the national District Health Boards chief executive group in June 2007 and it was turned down. The chief executive officer group decided that it was too costly without adequate justification of additional patient benefit, which is ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u0022b857a75dae4f405c8657dfae6d94799c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b857a75dae4f405c8657dfae6d94799c\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Dysfunction, disorganisation\u2014these are the hallmarks of a disintegrating Government. I have to ask the Government speakers: who knew what happened in the Air New Zealand situation? The strangest aspect of the whole issue about Air New Zealand and charter flights is who in the Government actually knew the truth. According to the Prime Minister, the Minister of Defence, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, they knew only last week when the story broke. But, in fact, most of the senior Government officials\u2014the senior public servants\u2014knew and had known for months. Simon Murdoch had been specifically advised by Rob Fyfe, the Chief Executive Officer of Air New Zealand, that the flights were to take place. Air New Zealand did the right thing. It knew that the flights were sensitive so it sought advice and spoke to the most senior foreign affairs official in the country\u2014actually, chief executive officer to chief executive officer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe information did not remain just with Mr Murdoch. There is a special committee\u2014the Officials Committee for Domestic and External Security Coordination\u2014of which Mr Murdoch is a member. The committee is chaired by Mr Maartin Wevers, who is the head of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and it includes the Secretary of Defence, Mr John McKinnon. These three people are all former or current diplomats of the highest experience. One would think they knew how to spot a sensitive issue. Other members on the committee include the head of defence, the head of SIS, the police commissioner, and the chief executive of Treasury. They all knew, yet apparently no one spoke to a Minister or even to anyone in a Minister\u2019s office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ENow we have to take a member\u2019s word in this House\u2014or, as the Prime Minister says, until it is proven otherwise. That is the formula she used to get rid of Mr Benson-Pope. So we have to ask this simple question: why was it that these experienced public servants thought that they did not have to speak to a single Minister, even though Air New Zealand could see there was a potential problem? It is the case that this Government seems to have two foreign policies\u2014one for external consumption and one for local consumption. We saw the local consumption version last week. The Government always attacks the United States\u2014the bogeyman of the left. It happened at the last election. We saw Phil Goff give one of his vein-popping speeches. The Government thinks there is mileage in all of that, but Colin James said this week in the New Zealand Herald that the Government should forget Iraq; the country is simply not interested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E The Government also has a different foreign policy\u2014the external one. It is usually a bit of a different message: we like to get on with friendly Governments, smoothing over differences and putting them off to the margins\u2014although that was somewhat forgotten by the Prime Minister in reference to Australia this week. One has to ask oneself this question: is this why the officials thought that the flights were OK? Had the Government somehow given an indication that they should be helpful to our friends, that all the Government Ministers needed was some form of plausible deniability? On the face of it that is exactly what they had. They came down here and denied. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI reckon the public have worked this one out. They can see hypocrisy. They can sense shallow politics. This time the tired old tactic of bashing the United States, of bashing our closest friend, Australia, simply has not worked. I wonder whether any of the members on the other side of the House have actually taken the time and trouble to look at the New Zealand Herald blogsite. There are about 30 pages on this issue, and almost 95 percent are saying that they actually do not care, that it does not really matter, that it is probably a good thing that we help out our old mate Australia when it asks for it, and that Australia is entitled to a bit of respect and support. The public simply do not care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3de871b9b58459f99ee5ce45d05ffe5\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: Off over to Iraq are you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb45fb3f0dce4996a932550fdeef72af\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: That is the point that Mr Fairbrother does not work out. The public have moved on. I must make this point to Mr Fairbrother. Mr James was absolutely right. I say to the Government to forget about Iraq, because the public are actually looking forward. They are not interested in disputes of the past. They want change, and come November 2008 they will have their chance to get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022 data-id=\u0022b758605fdb3a4584b42ae2c4b378bf94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b758605fdb3a4584b42ae2c4b378bf94\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E That member Wayne Mapp wants everybody to forget Iraq. So do all the Governments that have sent troops there who have died. The National Party wants to sweep it under the carpet. We can understand that; its members do not want the words of their leader coming back to haunt them. They would prefer it to be forgotten, it is sad that it will not be forgotten, and it should not be forgotten by New Zealanders. If that lot were the Government, they would have sent young New Zealand men and women there to die, and Air New Zealand would have been bringing them back in body bags. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a1e7a2df65747de82f6181ed7cfcffe\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262e18992494f45aaafb28823ccdc6889\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is what it would have been doing. Poor old Dr Mapp wants the public to forget it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EBut let us get back to some of the earlier comments and speeches about the poor personal attacks on Mr Key, and about how sad it is that the Government wants to remind the public about his shallowness. I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago of about 400 factory workers in South Auckland. National says we are not in touch and that we do not listen to those people. Well, I was there and we were talking about housing. Of course, we have had the National members lately pronouncing on housing. What have they been saying? They have said that they want to sell State houses to the tenants, yet all of this year National\u2019s housing spokesperson, Mr Heatley, has been railing about the properties in \u014Cr\u0101kei in the eastern suburbs of Auckland. It is a place where many people, particularly Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, have lived for years and years despite Governments doing their very best to shove them out, and he is saying that we should sell those properties. Will he sell them to the tenants? Will they have the $1 million to buy them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5fcf098667a47deab0a84ec939f280f\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261b7f073b98743679c306b0911900b64\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: No! National will be selling them to its mates, yet again. Let us get back to Mr Key\u2019s words. He is afraid of the effects on the underclass. He believes that it is unaffordable for many people to have a house. So what is this Government doing about it? We will actually do something about it up in Hobsonville. We will have affordable housing for people to buy. We will have State housing, we will have schools, and we will have shops. We will make a community where not everybody in that community is rich or poor, because we know the failed policies of the past and what they delivered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EWhat does the man who went up to Waitangi with a young M\u0101ori girl, saying that he was there for the underclass, say about Hobsonville State housing? What does he say about this Government\u2019s desire to have affordable housing in his electorate? He says: \u201COh no! We don\u2019t want those poor people anywhere near us. Get them out of here. And, by the way, do not let them live in \u014Cr\u0101kei either.\u201D This is the man who would have us believe that he is there for the underclass, for all of those people I was talking to at that meeting in South Auckland who work in the factories, who work in manufacturing jobs, and who are trying to bring up families on low or modest incomes. What does Mr Key have in store for them? He says that we cannot have affordable housing anywhere near his electorate, that we cannot have low-income people living in $1 million properties up in \u014Cr\u0101kei\u2014they have to be sold\u2014and he pretends that he will sell State houses to low-income people who are in State houses right now, because they are so low-income that they cannot afford to buy a house. Where is the logic in that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EBut we should not get personal. We should not get in there and test his theories and policies. Oh no, it is terrible if the Government dares to do that to the Leader of the Opposition. The same people Mr Key says he is concerned about\u2014the people I was talking to a couple of weeks ago\u2014were saying how great KiwiSaver is. They asked me what the National Party would do to it. We know what it will do to it, because it has already said that this Government is spending too much on retirement. What that means is that National will either cut KiwiSaver or cut the pension, or both. Those members over there know that. They know that the party, led by John Key, voted against increasing the minimum wage, voted against KiwiSaver, voted against increased holidays for average working families, and voted against lower doctor fees. It voted against prescription fees of three bucks. This is the man who says that he is worried about the underclass yet he voted against lowering doctor fees, lowering prescription costs, better wages, and better holidays. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EOf course, we are not supposed to remind him about his desire to send troops to Iraq so that they could be killed. It would not be a bunch of Tories\u2019 sons and daughters who went over there and fought in Iraq; that is not the way it works anywhere in the world. Oh no, the poor underclass would provide the bodies to go over there. [Interruption] Dr Mapp does not want to be reminded about Iraq; he wants to read his New Zealand Herald blog so that he can forget his leader\u2019s idiotic statements, which he made 3 or 4 years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022463789d3723f489b802e9cb7006a81f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022463789d3723f489b802e9cb7006a81f2\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E There has been much criticism of the Minister of Justice, Mark Burton, in recent weeks, and all of it is deserved. He is simply not up to the job. His performance in question time when trying to answer Bill English\u2019s incisive questions has been nothing short of incompetent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed8b03b65bae420fad906b8e674dbc4c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You can tell which side this one\u2019s on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272fd102d1f5b4c5f962a787aded8b740\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: But, for the benefit of Mr Mallard, I say that I am in a charitable mood this afternoon. To borrow the words of Denis Healey\u2014who was a real Labour person, as opposed to Mr Mallard\u2014I want to concentrate on the real Mephistopheles behind this shabby and discredited Faust. I want to talk about the Attorney-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThere is one matter in the debate on the Electoral Finance Bill that has to be addressed, and that is the failure of the Attorney-General to provide this House with a report under section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dea2ab62bd224f9ca09c8dd27c92133b\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s in touch with the people!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1a35a75f7f84fa79c9904cd5d983665\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The former member for Whanganui is hiding behind two boxes. I wonder whether it is in order for her to do that and to yell and to scream like a fishwife. She should come out from behind those boxes if she wants to interject properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Crown Law Office provided a legal opinion to assist the Attorney-General to determine whether a report should be made to Parliament. The Crown Law Office concluded by a fine margin that the bill is a justifiable limitation on the right of freedom of expression. This was a very poor opinion; it failed to address fundamental issues about this legislation\u2014that it impairs the ability of private citizens to criticise public institutions and political candidates, and that it stops private citizens from debating matters of public interest during an election year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThose are the sorts of restrictions that are worthy of Boy Assad of Syria; they are Draconian, and they are totally unacceptable. The Attorney-General should have provided a report under section 7. In fact, I agree with former Labour MP Richard Northey, who said in this House in August 1990 that the Attorney-General has an individual, independent responsibility to act in a judicial way and to report on matters even when there may be political pressures not to notice them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAny Attorney-General conscious of his or her responsibilities would have provided a section 7 report in this case, notwithstanding the Crown Law Office opinion. I agree with one of the Attorney-General\u2019s predecessors, the Hon Margaret Wilson, when she said that as Attorney-General she considered she should err on the side of caution in advising the House of any possible inconsistency with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. It is for that reason that she provided a section 7 report on the Electoral (Public Opinion Polls) Amendment Bill 2000 and the Electoral Amendment Bill (No 2) 2001. In both those cases she concluded that the bills were inconsistent with section 14 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and did not appear to be justified under section 5. In both those cases the House was dealing with members\u2019 bills, but that is beside the point. She was conscious of her responsibilities and took the time and trouble to write such a report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EWhen the New Zealand Bill of Rights legislation was being debated in 1990, some National MPs criticised the reporting duty of the Attorney-General and said it was ridiculous to expect the Attorney-General, who is bound by the principle of collective responsibility, to write a report contrary to Government policy. Labour MPs, however, emphasised the independence of the Attorney-General and said that he or she could. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThis Attorney-General is a disgrace. He has put party before Parliament, and the Labour Party\u2019s interests before the public interest. The Attorney-General is the person who should show his strength by critically analysing this rotten legislation, in New Zealand Bill of Rights Act terms, but he has instead decided to remain silent. Being the Attorney-General is about more than appointing the occasional judge and overseeing the work of the Crown Law Office. The Attorney-General must be an independent officer, placing the interests of the law and the fundamental rights of New Zealanders above party. This Attorney-General has failed to do so, and stands condemned for his failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EIt is very interesting that the Labour Party benches have fallen silent on this issue, because it is a major constitutional issue. I would be very interested to hear from the one lawyer in the Labour Party caucus for whom I have respect, namely Mr Fairbrother. What does Mr Fairbrother say about this issue? Why did the Attorney-General not provide a report at the time of introduction of this legislation? This was, as the Crown Law Office said, even putting it most generously, a finely balanced matter. It deserved a report. The Attorney-General failed in his responsibilities in failing to provide one. This Attorney-General is a Labour Party hack and, as I said, he stands condemned because he has put his loyalty to the Labour Party, to the tribe, above his public responsibilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u00225f17b55ad7174e79a1eb904bc4e685c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f17b55ad7174e79a1eb904bc4e685c0\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour): \u003C/span\u003EThat member, Christopher Finlayson, is the man who styles himself as the Attorney-General in waiting\u2014waiting being the operative word. That man will be waiting when Charles Chauvel becomes the Attorney-General. That man will be waiting when Charles Chauvel turns 50. That man will never make Attorney-General, because he will never be on the Treasury benches. That man will leave this House as frustrated and bitter as he entered it. But what that man does represent is the moneyed right. He is the man who aspires to be Attorney-General, who featured in the book The Hollow Men, and who held high-priced fund-raising dinners so that the wealthy right wing in this country could buy their way into power. He is the man who criticises our Attorney-General, claiming a lack of independence. The facts speak for themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at the credibility issue. This is not an attack on John Key. He does not need an attack from me; he attacks himself every time he opens his mouth. This is an attack on his credibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis is a debate. The debate was set off by a lacklustre speech made by the Leader of the Opposition, John Key. The only thing he told the House was that he is presently ahead in the polls. He dwelled upon that as though it were a matter of great moment of State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe reply to that was led by our Minister of Health, Pete Hodgson. He brought facts and figures into the debate. He outlined the inconsistency of statutory declarations by the Leader of the Opposition. That man who wants to be Attorney-General knows how important statutory declarations are. If we trifle with them we are committing a serious moral offence, at least, and perhaps a serious legal offence. Pete Hodgson outlined, chapter and verse, the impossibility for all those statutory declarations to be honest, to be straightforward, and to be taken at face value. And we have a motive for them to be misleading. At the time those declarations were made, John Key was standing for the first time in the seat of Helensville. He was styling himself as a man of the people of that electorate. Of course, it is quite clear now that he had no intention of delivering on his promise that he would live in the area. The statutory declarations outlined by Pete Hodgson today show quite clearly the total lack of credibility that man has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EBut John Key has a remedy. At any time during the speech made by the Minister of Health or after\u2014or even now\u2014he could stand in this House and invoke Standing Order 133(g) to interrupt the debate and make a personal statement to clarify the position. His credibility, having been put on the line in this House this afternoon in this debate, has not been restored by him. Why? Because he cannot advance a statement that will repair the damage of those inconsistent statutory declarations. Therefore, as we stand in the House right now, the debating speech of Pete Hodgson has to be taken as accurate and accepted by the Leader of the Opposition. It has to tell us that he filed conflicting statutory declarations when he should have been consistent, forthright, and honest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EWhat does that tell us about the man who comes here and gives a lacklustre speech, gloating that he is ahead in the polls at this moment? It tells us that he is a very good marketer. What is a marketer? A marketer is someone who creates a need in someone\u2019s mind, when that person does not want the product for which the need is created. What is the product they are creating? They are creating a myth of beneficence. I sat on a select committee this morning with some of the members sitting on the other side of the House, and those members must really have been churning in their stomachs at the evidence we heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EMy friend Mr Gosche spoke about an underclass. The underclass in this country are not the people whom John Key wants to highlight. The underclass in this country is truly a category of people who are marginalised by a system that fails to recognise their personal needs and their view of the world. I hate to use that term \u201Cunderclass\u201D, but it is the only term by which we can describe people who are marginalised and discriminated against in such a way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis is the world of the disabled. [Interruption] The member can interrupt about the disabled; he certainly can. He wants to forget them, just as he wants to forget about his party\u2019s promise to go to Iraq. He wants to forget about the disabled, and he certainly will if he ever gets to the Treasury benches. The world of the disabled is a very, very marginalised and sad world. Their complaint, of course, is that the money available to the disability sector is not getting to them. But they should wait until we have tax cuts, and wait until we have members on the other side of the Chamber on the Treasury benches. Then there will be no money for the marginalised and discriminated against disabled sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc8e4f22624c41f7b09fcaba97ee8844\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022146584c05ab647fda5f488234cbf4bad\u0022\u003ESignage in the Chamber\u2014New Zealand Labour Party\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002213ad4e35a57f45cda1af7aa970d5e919\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213ad4e35a57f45cda1af7aa970d5e919\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is my understanding that at the Business Committee this week it was ruled that the red boxes that Labour Party members have on their benches need to be with the member, or taken with the member when that member moves. I look across the House now and I raise the point with you, Madam Speaker, that there are three of these silly red boxes on the other side of the Chamber but only one member is sitting there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229c061041d56e4d68b7d10f021db31961\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c061041d56e4d68b7d10f021db31961\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I say to you, Madam Temporary Speaker, that Madam Speaker did rule on this today. She indicated that members would be informed of the Business Committee\u2019s ruling in the appropriate way, and after that it would be enforced. If the member had been listening at the time and if he had been awake at the time\u2014I know it is unusual in the afternoon, for the member\u2014he would have heard that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u0022f271d9bb785e4d6a84562647a22f78f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f271d9bb785e4d6a84562647a22f78f8\u0022\u003EThe TEMPORARY SPEAKER (Jill Pettis)\u003C/span\u003E: When Madam Speaker was in the Chair during question time she said precisely that. She will be reporting to the Business Committee at the first available opportunity as to the ongoing action regarding the presentation of boxes in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u0022e13ea68d1230448386d4fab513fd7c25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e13ea68d1230448386d4fab513fd7c25\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E The only point I would make is that the boxes actually belong to the junior whip, and he attends the Business Committee so he can hardly claim ignorance of this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u00225d8c70ae0ca74125a235f462378273e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d8c70ae0ca74125a235f462378273e8\u0022\u003EThe TEMPORARY SPEAKER (Jill Pettis)\u003C/span\u003E: Communication can be made in a variety of ways around here. Madam Speaker has indicated that she will do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a40714cd54f64860908ebf59656ba966\u0022\u003EMajor Events Management Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f348a81b04446b5a1d1c4c1e67b3695\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b88a1f85039d4dc399acd5908a2f530b\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u002210664801daab482cb43710b055573933\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210664801daab482cb43710b055573933\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014Tamaki):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party is, of course, supporting this legislation. National members have been very happy to work with the Government and with other parties in the Commerce Committee to make sure that the Major Events Management Bill is tidy legislation, and legislation that reflects the balance that will be needed to make sure it works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EIt is quite a significant step for New Zealand to move forward and think about our ability as a country to actually host major events, and the 2011 Rugby World Cup is, I understand, the third-largest sporting event in the world. So it is a great credit to the New Zealand Rugby Union and to those who work with the Rugby Union to secure that. But it means that we have to do it right, because if we do not do it right, other sporting organisations will not entrust similar responsibilities to New Zealand. That is what this bill is pretty much about. It sets up the right regulatory framework and puts in place the right sort of legislation so that, when the opportunity arises, we can bid for and secure these events, and do them well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EThere is a high test on the definition of \u201Cmajor event\u201D, and that is how it should be. There will be a temptation for various groups and organisations that are hosting events to want to elevate their event to the major event level. This bill\u2014passed in its present form\u2014should prevent that from happening. The test of what is a major event must be very high, because balanced against that are some definitions of restrictions on what individual New Zealanders and business interests can do when this Act is applied\u2014so we want to get that right. A lot of the work in the select committee was centred on making sure that the balance was right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EWhen I considered the purpose of the bill, I reflected on some of the arguments that have been put up against the restriction on ambush marketing, and the suggestions that this sort of legislation is in actual fact anti-entrepreneurial. That is absolute nonsense, of course, and I ask members who have run that argument, and who decide this afternoon to run it again, to just reflect on something. That something is that we will not get events of the size of the 2011 Rugby World Cup in New Zealand if we are not prepared to put in place some protections for those who invest in the venture. In my mind, it is no different at all from the protections that we give to, for example, science or medical research companies that have the opportunity, having invested, sometimes, hundreds\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5ba79a4dd974108b905b7417eaa4352\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5637b9a304449d6bde266bd97d1f1e8\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member for New Zealand First may think it is funny, but I suggest he reflect on what I am about to say. The incentive for companies to invest heavily in that sort of research lies in the opportunities they have to maximise the returns from the product once the research is completed, the product is tested, and the product goes on the market. That is how it should be, and investment in something like the Rugby World Cup needs to be seen in a similar context. Businesses are not going to make thoughtful, carefully thought-out decisions, in terms of putting up the millions of dollars that are required to underwrite events like this, if they are not going to have a fair opportunity to get a fair return from their investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003ESo instead of talking about this bill being in some way anti-entrepreneurial, members need to see it in the wider context of the motivation for business to invest in a venture. Frankly, it does not really matter whether the venture is the 2011 Rugby World Cup, or one of the two or three other major events that New Zealand is hoping to host in the next 10 years or so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00223346172feee6432b9ca3823279abf7d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223346172feee6432b9ca3823279abf7d5\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is rather strange to hear the National Party backing up the Government in this Chamber, and in this case supporting the force of the State being used to prevent businesses from operating, and to prevent competition. That is what this bill is all about. It is about the heavy hand of the State, and supporting it is hardly something I would expect from parties that claim they are in favour of the free market, free competition, and all the rest of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWhen one actually looks at the definitions in this part, one sees that in clause 3, \u201CPurposes\u201D, a purpose is to \u201Cobtain maximum benefits from the major event for New Zealanders;\u201D. I do not see how it gets maximum benefit for New Zealanders to, say, prevent Air New Zealand from advertising 5 kilometres out along a clean transport route, as declared under this bill, because, say, Emirates Airline is the official sponsor of the 2011 Rugby World Cup\u2014as Emirates Airline is the sponsor of the Rugby World Cup soon to take place in France. How does it help New Zealand businesses if we stop them from advertising 5 kilometres away from an event venue\u2014be it Air New Zealand against Emirates Airline, or Lemon and Paeroa against Coca-Cola, which is the sponsor of the Rugby World Cup this year and maybe in 2011? I think that is a bit strange. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe clause further states, in subclause (2)(ca), that the legislation \u201Cprohibits activities that might compromise the smooth running of a major event, such as ticket scalping and pitch invasion;\u201D. At first sight, I wonder how ticket scalping\u2014whether or not we like it\u2014affects the smooth running of an event. I understood that ticket scalping was the selling of tickets, and that is a bit different from what happens on a rugby field or in the stands. Again, the anti-competitive streak in the National Party and in Labour seems to be motivating that provision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EOf course we do not like people to make huge fortunes out of onselling tickets, but do we really want to put in a whole bureaucratic procedure to stop what is, effectively, a trade in second-hand goods? Any decent organiser of a major event will distribute the tickets quite widely, and some people may end up with one or two extra and may make a bit of a profit out of them, but is that really such a huge problem in society? With regard to the Rugby Sevens to be held in Wellington next year, the tickets go on sale next month. People can get them on the Internet, and there will be a lot of competition for tickets. I do not think anyone is going to end up with a huge number of tickets to onsell, so how will that affect the running of the event? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAnd how will inventing a whole new offence of pitch invasion help with the smooth running of the event? Disorderly behaviour is already an offence on the law books. So far, anyone who has disrupted a sporting event by running on the field has been charged with disorderly behaviour; we do not need that new offence in order to allow the smooth running of events. I think that this bill is completely unnecessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe bill also defines what a major event is. The previous speaker said it would have to meet a high test, but as I understand it, the event\u2014and there is flexibility about this, in terms of the views of the Government of the day\u2014has to have international visitors of some substance and have international advertising associated with it. That would apply to the Bledisloe Cup, and to a Super 14 final if it had a foreign team and a lot of Aussies coming across the Tasman, say. It would certainly apply to the Rugby Sevens, which comes up next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI turn to the definition in the bill of a clean transport route. Why do we need clean transport routes? That is the heavy hand of the State, and I will be moving a Supplementary Order Paper to remove that. I hope to get support for it from other parties. I know several other parties will be supporting the Greens on that, and I just hope that either Labour or National will, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u002255d7a2f3e464409f9bb21c7c110d59c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255d7a2f3e464409f9bb21c7c110d59c5\u0022\u003EMARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to this Major Events Management Bill in the Committee stage, noting that we are talking about the purposes, the interpretation, the status of examples, and the fact that the Act binds the Crown, as set out in Part 1 of the bill. I wish to keep my comments to those matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis bill is quite straightforward in its aims and purposes. It states quite clearly that its purposes are to obtain the maximum benefit for New Zealanders from major events held in New Zealand, to prevent unauthorised commercial exploitation of major events through ambush marketing activity, and to ensure the smooth running of major events. I think the comments that we heard from the previous speaker, Keith Locke, absolutely underscore the purpose of this bill. In respect of the example of pitch invasion, yes, there has been a move from using laws around disorderly behaviour to using a particular offence of pitch invasion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ENotwithstanding the comments from Mr Mark in a previous reading of this bill about those of us who may have worn such activities as badges in our past, it is important when a country is running and hosting a major event of the nature that is defined in this bill that the purpose of it is maintained and the running of it is orderly. This is in order that the event may proceed, first of all, without damage to the event itself; secondly, without damage by ambush marketing to the integrity of the sponsorship that has allowed the event to be held in the first place; and, thirdly, without bringing our own reputation into international disrepute at events that are major international fixtures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI think the purposes of this bill are admirable. I am pleased with the way the Commerce Committee members from across the parties have supported the purposes and the interpretations of this bill. There is one further comment I make. I may be wrong in this, but it seems to me that inserting examples into legislation is novel. I find it an extremely helpful practice. When we are talking about such things as ambush marketing by association or intrusion, it is extremely elucidating to be able to point to an illustration or example in the text of the legislation that makes it patently obvious what is intended by those terms. Although I consider the interpretations to be adequate in themselves, the fact that there are examples included within the body of this bill makes it eminently accessible. I think that is a very desirable trait, particularly as this Committee moves to try to introduce legislation in plain English. I commend the drafters and the Minister for the introduction of such examples into the text, because they make the bill very, very accessible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis is legislation that will not only facilitate the running of events but, as it says in the purpose clause, facilitate the benefits for New Zealanders and, in fact, allow for some integrity to be maintained around commercial sponsorship and therefore increase the attractiveness to sponsors of events such as the Rugby World Cup. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002278c8186769414659b9bb6a64157a14a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278c8186769414659b9bb6a64157a14a8\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to make a contribution on the purpose part of the Major Events Management Bill. The speaker before me, Maryan Street, outlined what the purpose is, and I do not want to reiterate those words, but in essence the purpose is also to advance New Zealand\u2019s wider interests by hosting events in areas where we are particularly prominent. The Rugby World Cup, of course, is one of those events, the Cricket World Cup will follow, and I am sure there will be other big international events that will be able to avail themselves of the provisions of this particular law and these particular arrangements for their events to be equally successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAnyone who looks at the effect that the Rugby World Cup can have on our economy, not only in the year or the month that the event is held but in the years leading up to it and the years subsequent to it, would agree that it is appropriate that we make arrangements to ensure the event\u2019s success. It is interesting to note that much of New Zealand\u2019s economy in the last couple of years has been somewhat insulated from the decline in the rest of the world\u2019s tourism markets, and that this is apparently attributable to the success of the Lord of the Rings films. I do not doubt that that is a fact, and I congratulate all those people who were involved in those films. But it needs to be recognised that the number of people who will watch any one or all three of the Lord of the Rings trilogy pales into insignificance compared with the number of people who will watch one or more games during the Rugby World Cup.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI recall last year going to an office not too far from here where a large number of people had gathered to watch the Tour de France, the bike race that happens in France each year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292d1644fed6146be923942493083fbf6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m surprised you got up that early, Gerry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cf916370b604aa99f03b0202f067e38\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, it was a replay. The Minister has said that he is surprised I got up as early as that. In fact, I was up as early as that; I work very long hours. In the small part of the day that I normally reserve for sleep I was watching a replay with a group of people who, interestingly, were not making comments about the race itself but were constantly commenting about the beautiful background and the scenery through which the race was happening. A similar thing will happen with the Rugby World Cup. More eyes will look at this country, more eyes will see what we are about, and more people will make a decision to come here and, effectively, bring their import dollars into this country. Given that we have such a big reliance\u2014around 40 percent of our domestic economy\u2014on tourism, it is an appropriate focus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI want to pick up on a couple of remarks made by Keith Locke. The first thing is that things like the Rugby Sevens will not be affected by this bill, at all. The Rugby Sevens event is not a major event, and is unlikely to be declared so. It is a very major event for this part of the world, but it is not a nationwide event, and therefore would not be caught by this legislation. Secondly, I want to send a bit of a message in that regard to the organisers of the Rugby World Cup. It is pretty depressing for me, standing here today, supporting this bill and wanting it to be successful, to have read in my local newspaper that my city of Christchurch is unlikely to get to host a semi-final of the Rugby World Cup. I think that this is serious, because the promotion around this thing has been that 4 million fans\u2014in other words, the whole country\u2014are getting in behind this. It is unacceptable to simply say: \u201CWell, you know, for the sake of 20,000 seats we are going to move the semi-finals and the final to Auckland.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1e45c45b30144079d27107ce336c975\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s logistics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221618eb017d6c4bb5be6c4bf645c8eb4d\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Do not give me the logistics argument. This is a small country. Auckland is an hour away from Christchurch by plane, and I am sure it not too hard to organise that. Given that Christchurch is the largest centre in the South Island, the reality is that the stadium could easily have been filled by locals anyway. So some of the thinking there needs to change if people expect this event to still be considered New Zealand\u2019s Rugby World Cup rather than Auckland\u2019s Rugby World Cup. So there is a small message there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAround the issue of pitch invasion, Mr Locke appeared to make the case that this should be perfectly acceptable. I recall Mr Locke walking down Queen Street in his underwear, and I would hate to see him repeat that sort of activity at any one of the Rugby World Cup games, because that would be the wrong image for New Zealand. Similarly, having the pitch invaded by anyone creates a poor impression of this country. We had a very interesting submission at the Commerce Committee from a young woman called Lisa Lewis. She was a very intelligent young woman, and she advanced the view that we should enable some form of pitch invasion. She went on to say that Wikipedia attributes the invention of the art of bikini streaking to her; therefore, it is a New Zealand first\u2014no pun on the party, of course, I say to Mr Mark, but a bit of that may help with the votes. She was saying that this sort of thing should be allowed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBut as the conversation progressed it became evident that what she was really saying was that at the start of a match, the conclusion of a match, and half-time there needed to be some form of entertainment, and that maybe this form of entertainment could be considered. Under this provision, if the event organisers chose to have those sorts of promotions, that would be their prerogative, provided that whatever they were doing was within the law and was, I suppose, tastefully presented, if I could put it that way. The reality is that all these games these days have pre-match entertainment, they have entertainment at half-time, and I suspect that they will have something at the conclusion of these games, as well. Pitch invasion, though, is the opportunity for people to impinge on the activity that other people have paid a lot of money to see. No one has a right to do that. We should just simply codify that so the whole world knows where we stand on that particular issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to clean transport zones, I think there is a whole lot of misunderstanding about what is actually meant. Essentially, they are about trying to protect the interests of sponsors, who put up a lot of money to make these events fly in the first place. I do not think it is appropriate that people should be able to engage in ambush marketing activities that, effectively, see them get the credit for the sponsorship. At the select committee we were given a very good example of how this works. The example involved Germany, where the football world cup was played. The major sponsor for that event was an airline. It put up a very, very significant amount of money to make it work. It tied up its own promotion around the event. But a competing airline carried out the simple exercise of putting on its aeroplanes a decoration that conveyed the clear message that it was the sponsor of that event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAt the conclusion of the event a large number of people who had participated as spectators or otherwise were of the view that the competing airline had been the main sponsor. So the poor old airline that had put all the money in and made the event happen was robbed of some of the benefit. I think we have to be realistic about this. It really did fascinate us to see the breadth of creativity that people can engage in in order to ambush the marketing around one of these events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo in response to Mr Locke, I say we need to be very relaxed about the provisions in this bill. They are not about destroying business in this country. This entire bill is about giving business in this country an enormous opportunity to grow its activities and to do so for the benefit of the whole country. I am sure that at some stage the Minister will want to share with the Committee the value that New Zealand got out of the recent yachting event at Seville. Was it Seville?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acd947529de640088b38eb7347942018\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Valencia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297925eae3e4f45acb4e4c8f76c75f1de\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I knew it was the name of an orange, so I was halfway there. The America\u2019s Cup was very successful for New Zealand businesses. They were able to spin off the back of that. We should not be frightened about the Government actually backing New Zealand. In many ways, anyone who argues against this bill argues against that premise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. I think the Committee will make very few changes to it, because of the way in which it was dealt with by the Commerce Committee. The committee dealt with the bill on a very, very positive basis in order to try to get a bill that was fair to all those who were likely to be affected, and to ensure that when it was put in place there would not be too much of a need to go back second-guessing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI conclude by saying that at some point New Zealand might want to consider whether some of our very good local events, like the Rugby Sevens, should come under these provisions or provisions like them. Perhaps there could be a lesser test. Perhaps it is something that might be devolved to local authorities. Good evidence was put in front of us that there is some need for this, particularly around the issue of scalping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00221ab1af7d65d94ecf83a363eeae5be3f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ab1af7d65d94ecf83a363eeae5be3f3\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a short call. I want to make it very, very clear that New Zealand First supports this legislation. We have spoken on this bill, and although we have noted with interest the rather curious situation we see unfolding in front of us here as we reflect on the past and on the history of this nation, we support the legislation. We told the Minister, Trevor Mallard, that quite some time ago. He has our absolute and whole support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWe believe that the arguments Mr Brownlee has just concluded making are all valid, but it would be remiss of this Committee not to pass comment on some rather curious developments, would it not? To not pass those comments would leave the people of the mind that we had totally ignored history and ignored reality, and that we were not considering in full what we were doing\u2014and we have. I ask the Committee to consider this. Let us take Mr Brownlee\u2019s last comment about what we may consider as major events in the future. His suggestion that the Rugby Sevens could be classed a major event is, I think, a very valid sort of observation to make at this point in time. It might well be that should there be a grand soccer match\u2014just one game\u2014there could be an argument that that could be a major event. Let us suppose, for example, that New Zealand was to meet England in a match to be played here in Wellington at the Westpac Stadium. There could be an argument, given the huge popularity and the huge viewing audience internationally, that that one game could be considered a major event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EImagine an event, such as the Rugby Sevens or even the Rugby World Cup, where Zimbabwe entered a team. What might be the reaction amongst normal New Zealanders? It might well be that a bunch of former Zimbabwean citizens, now New Zealand citizens, might decide to protest and picket that match because of their hatred and loathing of the dictatorship led by Robert Mugabe. What this legislation brings to mind is that any pitch invasion of a Zimbabwe versus New Zealand game would be breaking the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c075002f63a341a79d6a84e8413814b2\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: As it is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3255ef309674e29a91923ea3b4b9fb6\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: That is what we are saying. Right now that is illegal, and we are seeking to close the loophole so it is absolutely possible to control that, contain that, and deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ESome of us would say it is a good thing that those people should not be allowed to disrupt a match or to impinge on people\u2019s rights to freely associate with whom they wish, and that their rights to protest should be constrained, contained and protected as much as other people\u2019s rights to associate with other rugby teams and other rugby playing nations. In fact, Judge Thurgood Marshall, the pre-eminent black American who became the most senior member of the judiciary in the United States, and who was widely regarded as a leader and a campaigner for civil liberties and for the rights of black Americans, argued that when he dealt with the case involving those who protested against the Springbok American tour in 1981 and wanted it stopped. He made sure that the rights of those who protested were looked after. They could protest near the venue but not in the venue. He made sure that the rights of those players to play whomever they wanted to play were not interrupted. No one was permitted to invade those pitches, as he had seen, from the television footage, had happened here in New Zealand in the months prior to the Springboks tour of the United States. Of course, the Eagles got hammered, but the games were played.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI think that is the fundamental thing we need to recognise. Everybody has their rights\u2014the right to associate and the right to express a contrary opinion. It is a question of striking that balance through the middle, to ensure that nobody\u2019s rights are impinged on and that everybody is given the opportunity to do what they should be entitled to do but without adversely impacting on others. I think that is what New Zealand First likes about this legislation. We seek to protect the interests of both. The people who wish to protest can do so, but not on the pitch, not at the expense of people who have bought tickets and paid good money to go to see those games, and not at the expense of the investors who are bringing the event to this nation. That is why we support the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EBut we notice the delicious irony when one looks at these things as they have been presented right now. Mr Mallard, the Minister, I know on many occasions has told the nation that he was one of the protesters during 1981. I actually recall that time as being quite a difficult time, because our family was split right through the middle between those of us who just wanted to watch the two best rugby playing nations in the world compete, and those who wanted to stand and champion the cause against apartheid. Obviously some of us still feel to this day that the fact that matches were not played was a direct impingement on our right to see those matches played.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u002235d3e9ce904f493d92b0720af4ffe0f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235d3e9ce904f493d92b0720af4ffe0f6\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E \u201CInnovative\u201D and \u201Cinsightful\u201D would be epithets that can appropriately be applied to the workings of the Commerce Committee under the skilled chairmanship of Mr Brownlee. I can illustrate that in a number of ways, but let me just content myself with one illustration\u2014it reflects badly on the Minister and that is why I have chosen it\u2014and that is the use in this Major Events Management Bill of examples. I completely agree with what an earlier speaker has said: that it is wholly consistent with the new drafting style that this Parliament has adopted to use examples and diagrams. We have done it in tax legislation in the past. Here we see through this legislation examples of examples. It should be noted, in dealing with this particular part, that the status of examples is made clear in clause 4A. An example, it is said, is only illustrative of the provisions to which it relates. It does not limit those provisions. If there is an example and an inconsistent provision, then it is the provision that prevails. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe background to this legislation is reasonably simple. It is a matter of history that, in association with New Zealand\u2019s bids to host the 2011 Rugby World Cup and co-host the 2015 Cricket World Cup, the Government has given assurances to the International Rugby Board and the International Cricket Council that certain protections will be put in place for those fixtures. Those protections include ambush marketing protections. More events, of course, are contemplated. New Zealand is to host the World Rowing Championships in 2010, and my understanding is that we will host the Under-17 Women\u2019s Football World Cup in 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EIn Part 1 of the bill\u2014which, as others have commented, contains preliminary provisions including purpose provisions\u2014there are a raft of definitions in clause 4, \u201CInterpretation\u201D. I just pick up on a couple of those definitions for the purpose of developing an argument around ambush marketing. There are definitions of \u201Cclean period\u201D, \u201Cclean transport route\u201D, and \u201Cclean zone\u201D. A very substantial part of this legislation is around the concept of ambush marketing. It is quite a sophisticated phrase and quite a sophisticated concept that describes the actions of companies or advertisers who seek to associate themselves with major events, or to draw a connection in the public\u2019s mind between themselves and major events, without the authorisation of the event organisers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThere are a number of things that ambush marketers do. The types of things would range from arranging aerial advertising over a major event venue immediately before the event or during the event, so as to suggest sponsorship or association, to the placement of billboards displaying the ambush marketer\u2019s name near the venue\u2014or, if there are several venues, near the venues\u2014or on key routes to the venue. Within the realm of ambush marketing there are other issues, such as the unauthorised sale of goods or services at the event. There are issues associated with the registration and the exploitation of domain names. The aspect of scalping is also within ambush marketing. Scalping is the unauthorised on-sale of tickets\u2014and I know we will look at it in some detail when we get to Part 2\u2014but it is also all about the circumstance where tickets are packaged with travel and hospitality offerings. The subtlety of ambush marketing extends to the circumstance of giving away free merchandise such as caps or T-shirts bearing the advertiser\u2019s logo, with the aim that large groups of spectators will wear that gear and the television cameras will pan on to them or perhaps still photographs will be taken that hint at that association. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThere are\u2014and this is picked up in the legislation and starts in this particular part\u2014two main varieties of ambush marketing currently recognised in the context of major international events. I will return to that issue later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022d54d26a18f964ff3a8f0805cbc6c3ad7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d54d26a18f964ff3a8f0805cbc6c3ad7\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think Ron Mark was right to bring in the honourable tradition of political protest in New Zealand sometimes involving a presence on sports fields. He mentioned the possible situation of people protesting the situation in Zimbabwe, and we had the 1981 anti - Springbok tour demonstrations. Generally, the people taking part in this civil disobedience, as it were, do not expect not to be prosecuted; no one is saying that. But one does not need to put in a whole big penalty on it. Up to date it has fallen under the offence of disorderly behaviour. Sure, disorderly behaviour has a maximum penalty of 3 months in jail, but there has never been any thought by judges of imposing a prison sentence on streakers or people involved in this activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWhat happened to the political protestors was that they actually got a lower penalty in the courts in 1981, or more recently in Britain they have completely got off for their civil disobedience around the Trident programme. The judges said: \u201CWell, because you were well motivated and you weren\u2019t doing it for selfish reasons, we\u2019ll reduce the penalty.\u201D That is effectively what has happened. But this bill is going totally in the opposite direction, and saying that this is such a bad offence that we have to get beyond just a small fine under the heading of disorderly behaviour, and put in a whole new offence with a maximum penalty of 3 months in prison, and get all hot and bothered about it. That is completely the wrong way to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI reject what Gerry Brownlee says, that somehow I am encouraging pitch invasions. That is not the case at all. But let us face it\u2014if someone does a little streak on a field, that may not disrupt the game more than the average injury stoppage. Historically, a lot of the time, streakers have been a welcome extra element for many spectators. I am not encouraging streakers, but I am just saying that we do not need to think that we, the Parliament, have to bring in a whole new offence to get around a problem that really does not exist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee went on to say we were encouraging New Zealand business. In fact, if members look at the sponsors of the Rugby World Cup in France this year, I do not think they will see any French firms amongst the major sponsors\u2014there may be sponsors, but the major sponsors are not French. I do not expect that a single New Zealand firm will be a major sponsor in 2011 at the Rugby World Cup. The sponsors will be the same as at the present time\u2014McDonald\u2019s and Coca-Cola, etc., who are the sponsors at the Rugby World Cup in France. New Zealand businesses will be out of the picture, and this law will be used against them if they advertise even several kilometres from the venue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIn terms of the definition of a major event, I think under the definition here it could apply to a number of events in addition to the 2011 Rugby World Cup, because one needs, in terms of the definition as printed, a large number of international participants or spectators, therefore generating significant tourism opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E We could interpret that as a Bledisloe Cup match, or possibly a Waratahs versus Auckland Sevens final, or the International Sevens, if it gets the tourist traffic that the Hong Kong Sevens gets. That could apply to those events. They attract significant sponsorship and media coverage. I think that would already apply to a number of the events I have mentioned, and it would raise New Zealand\u2019s international profile. It could apply to a number of events, including the Rugby Sevens. Most of the action is actually in the stands, at the Rugby Sevens. There is good action on the field too, but it is quite conceivable that, come early next year, the odd dressed-up spectator will wander on to the field. That could happen in future similar tournaments, including the Rugby World Cup. But I would ask why we really want to jump all over such people with a heavier penalty. Do we not have better things to do? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003ESure, The Lord of the Rings attracted a lot of international attention to New Zealand, but the difference between that and the Rugby World Cup is not just the number of people who might watch the TV feed of the Rugby World Cup\u2014and I agree with Gerry Brownlee that it may be greater than the number of people who watched The Lord of the Rings\u2014but is also that The Lord of the Rings did not impinge on the human rights of New Zealanders. This bill does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in the name of Keith Locke to clause 4, to omit and substitute words, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002253e771372326406cb72d6b1677f2b6fe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000406\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in the name of Keith Locke to clause 4, to omit a definition, be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a5f05f65611d4bfe8ebe9bbaa6cbde5c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 2; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022caa374c602004da982a13918a784fbc5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022408f33f8d3ef4ebd9746ab4a9b67243e\u0022\u003EPart 2  Declaration of major event and the protections for major events\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u00223847278a69ef425b8de5b7ca0f30dd50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223847278a69ef425b8de5b7ca0f30dd50\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014Tamaki):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate having the opportunity to speak also to Part 2, and I just note with a little irony that most of what the representatives of the Green Party and New Zealand First have been talking about is probably more relevant to Part 2 than it was to Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI will take the opportunity to share with Mr Mark his love of American history. Twice in this debate he has mentioned Justice Thurgood Marshall. I think that if he checks his history, he will find that Justice Marshall, although appointed to the Supreme Court by Lyndon Johnson in, I think, 1965, never actually reached the top echelons of the Supreme Court. He was simply an associate and never a Chief Justice. It pays to get one\u2019s history right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EPrevious speakers have traversed a range of views and interpretations of this legislation, and I wonder what those very fine people at the New Zealand Rugby Union and their business interests must be thinking. Here we are, with a fair degree of unanimity in the Committee, debating very, very important legislation that will lay out the environment for New Zealand to host the Rugby World Cup 2011 very, very well. It is important we do it well, because this sort of activity will be more and more important to our future, not only in hosting the event itself and getting that right but also in enjoying the downstream advantages that come from that, with New Zealand being seen as a destination for doing business, tourism, and that sort of thing. Yet here members are finding themselves almost degenerating into irrelevancies about the way that people might conduct themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI want to make one thing very clear to the Committee: New Zealanders are sick and tired of having their enjoyment of major events spoilt by one or two self-important, indulgent people who think that making an exhibition of themselves is far more important than the game that is under way. I think that many New Zealanders feel a sense of embarrassment that when we are on the world stage, and when so many people are working so hard to make the event go off well, attention is distracted by some clowns who seem to think they are free to make fools of themselves and forget the consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b5d90f2cc8642cc9298916809e9b562\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re normally drunk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d998bca96168488ba959ac0cf4c4ed55\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: They are normally drunk. We do not want that; New Zealand wants to move forward beyond that. New Zealand wants to see itself now as a serious destination for world-class major events. A lot of things go with that, and part of it is ensuring that the standard of behaviour in the crowd is up to scratch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI also want to put on record my very, very strong support for the anti-scalping provisions. Already now in New Zealand when big major sports events are held, it is too hard for ordinary New Zealanders\u2014the men and women who are out on the paddock on a Saturday, coaching children\u2014to get tickets to the big events. As I said, I think, in speaking to the introduction\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbd179bfe5b148428f397dbe44a5216f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No trouble getting tickets for North Harbour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0a03358069048f2ab2ae6e9482ae5de\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I have said a couple of times before in this debate, I am the principal who hired a hospitality box at North Harbour Stadium, so that teachers, the people who were fronting up week after week, had an opportunity to experience what people who were often making no positive contribution to sport at all were experiencing week after week. I note the irony that the Minister behind this bill had some strong views on my actions at that time. Hopefully, with a little time having passed, he might have reflected on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E It is really important that we protect\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e6616440c034257ac8c19e6d957ddf0\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Who used it the most?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc34df582dcb4580bf6df5028de8c16c\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the music teachers actually had it the day we got caught, I say to Mr Mark, but that is another story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EIt is not right that ordinary New Zealanders who front up on Saturday after Saturday, on a Thursday night, or whenever it is, to coach teams, to play in teams, or to support teams do not have a fair crack, at a reasonable price, at seeing the really big games. The reality is, of course, that there will always be a limited number of tickets when a ground is going to be sold out, and I accept that and fully understand it. But I am anxious to ensure that ordinary New Zealanders who have a love of sport get a fair crack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EThe last comment I want to make at this stage, in speaking to Part 2, is just to reinforce the importance of the high test being put in place in terms of the declaration of a major event. If the Committee takes a moment to look at that test, it will become apparent just how important this legislation is to us and just how important these major events are. There has to be significant international participation and a significant number of international spectators. I am bound to say that although I saw the Minister shake his head, I find it very hard to see the New Zealand soccer team playing England or our team as being in that category. Perhaps if Manchester United were to play England in New Zealand it might be a different matter. The event has significantly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a849af60f85c457ebe7ad4087a2911ca\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Part of a tour. Comes from Australia\u2014you know, 30,000 Poms watching. That would be a major event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253c58f5443994eb4a978c842896da10a\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha; yes, they will be mostly Poms. The event must significantly raise New Zealand\u2019s international profile and, associated with it, have an appropriate level of professional management and professional coordination. It must attract significant sponsorship and international media coverage. That is probably the significant test: is the event that is to be held in New Zealand big enough to attract international media coverage and international sponsorship? It is a pretty rigorous test. There also have to be substantial sporting, cultural, social, economic, or other benefits to New Zealand and to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EReally, this bill marks the movement into a new era of events being hosted by New Zealand. This is not the Rugby World Cup of 1987, however much those of us who experienced that look back at it with huge pleasure and satisfaction. We are not talking about an equivalent event any longer; we are talking about what I understand to be the third most significant sporting event in the world\u2014the third. It is huge. Its possibilities for New Zealand are huge. It is vital that we get it right, and it is good to see that the two major parties are able to come together, work together through the select committee process, and put in place the framework that will ensure we get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00224100160d3e4a4ad289357bf6eb66b559\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224100160d3e4a4ad289357bf6eb66b559\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chairperson. It is a pleasure to stand to take a brief call on this Major Events Management Bill. During the course of our Commerce Committee proceedings it was good to have a great deal of support and input from the majority Opposition party. There are a few concerns, which our friend from the Green Party referred to, but they will pass as relatively trivial matters in the greater scheme of things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI make this small contribution on the eve of a departure for great athletic responsibilities, following in the footsteps of the Minister in the chair, the Hon Trevor Mallard, and I look across the Chamber with some sadness that I will not be joined by the heavyweight of the Opposition front bench, Mr Brownlee. Unfortunately, the pugnacious Mr Foss is wandering around spraying apples in Hawke\u2019s Bay. However, other matters require my attention. There is a famous M\u0101ori saying in the world of the Ng\u0101puhi: \u201CThe first punch that\u2019s landed had better knock out the opposition, because utu has a very, very strong kickback.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe legislation, in my view, improves our credentials. The declaration of a major event enables us, and especially the Minister and the Government, to promote our credentials in terms of New Zealand being a safe and secure environment for investors, advertisers, and promoters who will come here knowing that the significant amounts of money they are going to sink into the event will not be frittered away either by weak law or by the inability of the judiciary to arrive at the right decision because of vagueness in the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIn terms of declaring a major event, and also ensuring that people put their money on the line, those people look with a great deal of anxiety not only at the Minister but also at the relevant ministry to ensure that their proposals and their applications are adequately appraised. I agree with Mr Peachey\u2014a man whom, prior to meeting him, I had formed quite a favourable view of in relation to his contribution to education at Rangitoto College\u2014when he said that lots of families struggle to find the opportunity to see these events at an affordable level. However, these sorts of events will engender a greater level of enthusiasm and may actually shake loose from the corporate world more sponsorship to assist those less fortunate New Zealanders to get their tamariki, their kids, into sport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThis particular event relates to rugby, but there are other events. Unfortunately, the forces of nature and the politics of yachting conspired against us, and the Minister was unable to bring Grant Dalton and other mariners home so we could stage that particular event. However, this event, given that it is focused on rugby\u2014which is very close to a national religion\u2014will have a positive impact on our families and on our young people. I know there are those who might say that rugby eclipses arts, culture, and various other pursuits, but the reality is that it is a major money earner and a major source of attraction for people wanting to come to our country. So why not pass this bill without a great deal of procrastination and put it on to the face of the law, to ensure that our friends in Australia, despite their best efforts to hobble us in recent times, will actually look at us a bit more admiringly come 2011? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOught this bill give the proposed level of protection to intellectual property or other legal rights? Of course it should. People are not going to invest considerable amounts of money in events, in symbols, or in signs unless they are confident they will get a return on their investment. And, yes, there is now a fusion between commerce and sport, so they have every right to expect that in our country the rule of contract will be observed and that the judiciary will deliver a speedy result in the event of fly-by-nighters and rorters trying to undermine the rights of investors when we host this highly successful event. All going well, our major team, our national All Black team, will emulate the feat that I am sure the parliamentary team will achieve\u2014that is, success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EBefore making a recommendation, the Minister for Economic Development must take into account a number of issues. Is it likely that a large number of international participants and spectators will be attracted? That goes without being said, because our greatest brand in the area of sport and recreation is undisputedly the brand of our All Blacks. All around the world young people have been encouraged to identify heroes and icons in the sporting area, and this is an area in which all New Zealanders can take pride. The members of our team will be an additional attraction\u2014something like a cultural rainbow, in the sense that they represent the major groupings that occupy the fields in our urban and provincial areas. They are the tangata whenua, our friends from the Pacific, and the hearty descendants of the original colonists, otherwise known as P\u0101keh\u0101s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWill this event generate significant tourism opportunities beyond cavil? Of course it will. Tourism continues to provide an ongoing source of overseas revenue. That is good, because it enables us to broaden the base of our GDP, and to broaden the base of our international earnings, so we do not rely on just our traded commodities from the pastoral sector and leave everything to the whims of the traders of the dollar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIs the event likely to boost our international profile? Well, we pride ourselves on punching above our weight. We enjoy seeing our young men and women don our uniforms and represent our country\u2019s interests in relation to international obligations in areas such as the Sinai peninsula and throughout the Pacific. This is another way in which our international profile can be both maintained and extended. Of course, it has ongoing spin-offs for younger people, and we should think about that in this House because not every young person is going to listen to a parliamentarian telling them to go to university or polytech, especially those who are endowed with physical prowess. This provides them with an opportunity to enter networks whereby they can go overseas, to Europe and other places, earn a living, and actually broaden their own life experience by applying their skills on the sports field, and in particular on the rugby field. All of these can be spin-offs of this successful event. But the event will not be successful if the people putting their dough on the line are not confident they will be able to get a return or protect their investment\u2014Economics 101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWill this event require a high level of professional management and coordination? That is without doubt. We had a host of people from the Rugby Union come and address us\u2014indeed, if my memory serves me correctly, we had an English lawyer arrive who came, if not from the Rugby World Cup company, then certainly from the International Rugby Board. He gave us a clear sense of confidence that our own rugby administrative infrastructure is up to the task. However, the levers of the State had to be applied in a reasonable manner to ensure that the administration could go and provide ongoing confidence to the people who have the rights to the Rugby World Cup. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIs the event likely to attract sponsorship and international media coverage? That is also without a doubt. The media will be in New Zealand in their droves, and the fact that they are here means they will go to places beyond the rugby field. That is good for the provinces, and that is good for all the shades and colours of New Zealand, because we need at all times to boost the desirability of our country and to ensure that the attractiveness of not only our nature but also our people and our landscape eclipses some of the blighted commentary that comes our way over internal problems to do with wh\u0101nau violence, etc. Let us accentuate the positive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWill the event attract large numbers of Kiwis as participants or spectators? Well, I have already said, without offending the bishop that Mr Barnett took to a strip club, that rugby is akin to New Zealand\u2019s religion. So I have no doubt that people will flock from the Bluff\u2014from the tail of the fish\u2014and that some will even come from Magpie country, and they will be great participants and spectators. But as my fellow parliamentarian the former principal of Rangitoto College said, unfortunately not enough of them will have an opportunity to actually grace the stands. But I look forward to our Rugby Union being able to come up with some sort of innovative proposition to enable more of our young people to go and watch Piri Weepu, who hopefully will not have abandoned Aotearoa for rugby league in distant climes, grace the field in the place where he ought to be at the moment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae1f9f4bc53640ebad18d9088143ec84\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, Wainui\u014Dmata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be1b10a0d029429ca02ba4e01e1074c1\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, OK, I accept that the Minister, as the \u201Cmember for Wainui\u014Dmata\u201D, had a large degree of input into Piri\u2019s\u2014no, I will not say form\u2014development. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022c58ea2027aad44d8b4185e37d81199b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c58ea2027aad44d8b4185e37d81199b3\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I do not think that anyone in this Chamber wants the Rugby World Cup and major events like that not to be very successful. But the Green Party viewpoint is that this over-the-top, heavy-handed legislation will not help us to have successful international events like the Rugby World Cup. In fact, it will put off New Zealanders if this Parliament seems to be just dancing to the tune of the big multinationals that are sponsoring events like this. In France that is Heineken, Coca-Cola, McDonald\u2019s, and, I think, Adidas. Are we serving them or are we serving the New Zealand people? It is true, and I take what Allan Peachey says, that we want to be true to those who go along, play sport, and coach sport\u2014the ordinary people\u2014but I do not think that this legislation will help. This is not the Kiwi way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIn relation to what the member said about ticket scalping, I agree that the requirement is for a proper distribution of tickets. I think that it is the case, pretty much, that tickets will go out through rugby clubs, through the Internet, and through various ways. That spreads the tickets out. If people get sick, want to onsell tickets, or get one or two extra tickets, then why should we abandon the normal procedure of having a second-hand market and come down with the heavy hand of the State? The San Francisco Giants, a baseball team in the United States, accepts that there will be a second-hand market and that there will be onselling, so it provides a whole Internet site for that to happen under its own auspices. It is just so strange that we have parties in this Parliament trying to clamp down on a second-hand market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI have two lots of amendments to Part 2 on my Supplementary Order Paper 138. Most of them are related to the clean transport route, and the theme of one of the amendments is to knock out the provision for a clean transport route up to 5 kilometres from a stadium. I think that that is one of the most silly, over-the-top bits of the legislation\u2014that somehow some New Zealand firms cannot advertise 5 kilometres out. That area would cover virtually the whole of Wellington, down the routes that would be defined. The distance is a long way out from, say, the Westpac Stadium, or whatever, and a long way out from Eden Park in the case of Auckland. So I would ask members to support my amendments, in order to knock out the reference to clean transport routes in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe other amendment is to knock out the provision about the new offence of pitch invasion. As I explained previously, there is no need for that. Any people wandering on to pitches for whatever reason they may have are covered already by offences listed in the Summary Offences Act or the Crimes Act\u2014that is, by provisions about disorderly behaviour. Do we really need to get so hot and bothered as to bring in a new offence for that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EBut I take the point, and in some ways Shane Jones is quite correct, that rugby needs all the support it can get at the present time. I went along to a league game a couple of weekends ago, and the Warriors actually had more people along at that game then there were people at the Auckland-Waikato game. So I think that rugby is in a bit of trouble, but I do not think that this bill will help. Piri Weepu may well go to league if those spectator figures continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt is just stupid and impractical to try to control ticket scalping in the way that this bill proposes. If people have spare tickets, then they will rustle around and find someone to buy them if it is a big international event, and they will generally sell them for more than the cover price. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAt the Commerce Committee representatives of TradeMe came along and said: \u201CLook, this is going to be a bit hard for us to work out how to stop this. We will do our best, of course, as we do to implement any law that Parliament passes.\u201D But that company and others have pointed out that people can go on to eBay or somewhere else and still make ticket transactions. We cannot suppress a free market in second-hand goods just by passing a law, and no argument has been raised in this Parliament as to why we should do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u002265d44de4438e43a5a723a63071c85d82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265d44de4438e43a5a723a63071c85d82\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is in Part 2 that the substance of this Committee debate is to be found, and as Madam Chairperson herself commented when she started the debate on this part, there are five subparts. I just observe that it is a legislative drafting strategy sometimes to seek to constrain Committee debate by including a number of subparts in a particular part. Certainly, the issues in this part are discrete issues in themselves, and could well have been the subject of separate parts. Why do I say that? Because the subparts are about declarations of major events, they are about ambush marketing by association protections, they are about ambush marketing by intrusion protections, they are about ticket-scalping protections, and they are about pitch invasions. They are all discrete topics in themselves, and I hope there is an opportunity to contribute separately to at least some of those separate issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI want to pick up an issue that has been referred to only fleetingly in this ambush-marketing concept, which finds its place in Subparts 2 and 3, and to make some short observations in the time available. Two main varieties of ambush marketing are currently recognised in the context of major international events. The first is ambush marketing by association, and we have a subpart on that. It involves an advertiser misleading the public into thinking that the ambush marketer is an authorised partner or is somehow associated with the event. Often the association can be quite subtle. The other type of ambush marketing is ambush marketing by intrusion. Mr Locke has made some comment on that. I judge it not to be informed comment, but he has commented on it. Ambush marketing by intrusion occurs when an event is used to provide the ambush marketer\u2019s brand with exposure or publicity to which it is not entitled, by intruding on the attention of the audience gathered for the event. In such instances there may be no claim of association with the event, but it is a commercial reality, as Mr Jones has said, that sponsors make huge financial commitments, and both types of ambush marketing focus on commercial activity that free rides on the publicity surrounding a major event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ESo, what is the consequence? The value of the official sponsorship is undermined, and that has an impact on the viability of obtaining sponsorship for events in the future. That is why this argument is so critical, and it is why I would very much like the Green Party to understand the importance of this legislation. Ambush marketing can affect the financial viability of major events, the building of event brands, and goodwill for the future. It can also affect the ability of event organisers to fulfil contractual obligations to sponsors. That is why it is, and I explained this in my first call, that many major sponsors now insist that there be protection against ambush marketing before they will commit to sponsorship contracts for major events. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Locke that there is nothing new in this legislation, because legislation containing ambush-marketing protections has been introduced in a large number of overseas jurisdictions\u2014for example, in Australia for the 2000 Olympic Games, the 2006 Commonwealth Games in Melbourne, and the Australian Formula One Grand Prix. Those are Australian examples. Other examples are in the UK for the 2012 London Olympic Games; in China for the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games; in South Africa for the 2010 FIFA World Cup; and in the nine nations of the West Indies for the 2007 Cricket World Cup. I urge Mr Locke to contemplate whether he should consider withdrawing the amendments he apparently seeks to advance at this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EFinally in this call, I would like to say something about ambush marketing by intrusion, in the context of what has already been briefly adverted to, and it is that in connection with clean zones, the Minister for Economic Development may declare tightly geographically limited clean zones consisting of the venue and the area directly approximate to the venue. The clean zones cannot include private land, with one exception. In essence, the clean zones represent those areas where spectators will be gathered solely for the purpose of attending or gaining access to the major event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI also wish to comment on a provision in the bill that relates to clean transport routes during a defined clean period. The Minister may declare motorways, State highways, and railway lines within 5 kilometres of a clean zone, and the areas directly approximate, to be clean transport routes. Quite clearly, some submitters to the Commerce Committee wished that this legislation went further. Other submitters wished us to draw back. All of that material was the subject of evidence and evaluation by the Commerce Committee. We have had to strike a balance. We believe that the balance we have struck in respect of clean zones, clean transport routes, and matters of that nature is a balance that has been appropriately struck in the context of the arguments we heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002240b0aec0c02149f1bad31da39c8acf0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240b0aec0c02149f1bad31da39c8acf0e\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E No argument has yet been raised to justify the anti-scalping provision in this bill. I ask Parliament to think about the precedent that it sets. Essentially, it sets a precedent that the State can control second-hand markets, and that it can control people who are making a profit in a second-hand market. Why do we need to go down that track? I ask someone in this Chamber to explain whether there is such a huge problem with the distribution of tickets by the organisers of sporting events that, say, 1,000 tickets end up in the hands of one person, and that person makes a huge profit out of them. If that is the case, surely the organisers would improve the distribution of tickets the next time around. There is no problem that really needs to be addressed here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Committee added a provision, which is the heavy-handed thing that Richard Worth talked about. The select committee was worried that at the edge of the clean zones, someone may stand on private property and trade a few items from a competing provider\u2014that is, a provider who is competing with the goods of an official sponsor may trade off his or her own front lawn\u2014and said that a provision needed to be brought in to control that. Why do we need to get as heavy-handed as that? Why can the major event organisers not just control things in their own stadium? They are quite entitled to do that. Why do we need this legislation? Why do we have to have a 5 kilometre clean transport route? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EEmirates Airline, which is an official sponsor of the Rugby World Cup in France, is of course backed by the same people who are trying to take over Auckland International Airport, our key transport hub. The same outfit that is behind Emirates Airline is behind the Dubai firm that is trying to take over our international airport. If Emirates Airline sponsors the Rugby World Cup again in 2011, do we really want Air New Zealand to pay a fine of $150,000 if it happens to have a sign 4.5 kilometres out from Eden Park, along the declared clean transport route? Why do we need to go down that track? New Zealanders will think it is stupid. In fact, the Kiwi spirit is that if we are ordered around, we come back in a satirical way. So all kinds of people, in their Tui T-shirts or whatever else they may be wearing, will try to stick it up the bureaucrats. This Parliament is giving powers to those bureaucrats to jump on the rights of people to do what they want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI do not think the argument for that measure has been made. Someone is just saying that because the big overseas advertisers say we must do this, therefore we must. It was not a requirement in order to get the right to host the Rugby World Cup. When we got that right, nothing came to this Parliament to say that if we got that right, we would have to pass this legislation. It was only a year later that we were told we needed to do this. Obviously, some of the big advertisers tapped someone on the shoulder and said we had to do this, or our future might be in doubt. I do not think we want to bow down to those advertisers in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe bill contains a number of onerous provisions. As I said, there is the anti-scalping provision. I do not have a particular amendment on that, but I think we should be against that provision. I do have two specific sets of amendments on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in my name. One is to knock out the clean transport routes, and the other one is to knock out pitch invasion. Again, no one has really answered me as to why we need to have a whole new offence for pitch invasion and why it could not be handled, as it has been in the past, by imprisonment under the disorderly behaviour offence. It is very bad lawmaking to bring a whole new offence, when it is unnecessary. Exactly the same behaviour can be caught under an existing offence with, in practice, the application of a lower penalty. Sure, both the offences of pitch invasion and of disorderly behaviour have a maximum penalty of a 3-month prison sentence. But when one looks back through the cases at the application of prison sentences for disorderly behaviour, one sees that what was behind the crime was often very serious and involved provoking violence or being involved in violence or another crime. Simply wandering on to a football field is not covered, and it has never been even thought of as being covered, by the disorderly behaviour offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u00229e80e56ebbb74834963098c8a4b8ab74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e80e56ebbb74834963098c8a4b8ab74\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will take up the challenge that Mr Locke has thrown down and explain why the Commerce Committee was influenced to include the anti-scalping provisions. I do not think that his argument gains any greater merit just by being repeated, as he has done on three occasions now. We are talking about Subpart 4 of Part 2, and it is entitled \u201CTicket-scalping protections\u201D. Clause 24(1) states: \u201CNo person may, without the authorisation of the major event organiser, sell or trade a ticket to a major event activity for a value greater than the original sale price of that ticket.\u201D There is an offence-creating provision in the next clause, which Mr Locke has already referred to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI would just say this. The bill has a number of purposes. The two that are most relevant in the context of the anti-scalping argument relate to the provision for declared events\u2014that is, major events\u2014to \u201Cobtain the maximum benefit from the major event for New Zealanders;\u201D and to \u201Cprevent unauthorised commercial exploitation\u201D of events \u201Cat the expense of either a major event organiser or a major event sponsor;\u201D. If one looks at what has gone on overseas, one will see some really egregious examples of cases where scalping has actively worked against the interests of consumers\u2014and the bill aims to deal with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI will give the Committee an example of that. Probably one of the worst examples was in 2004 at the Glastonbury Festival in the UK. It was a case where tickets were initially offered for sale online and were sold out within the first few hours of availability. However, afterwards large numbers of tickets started to appear on eBay and other online market places. Not only were professional ticket sellers involved but many ordinary concert-goers had apparently purchased twice the number of tickets that they required and then sold the unused tickets at double the original price, thus effectively getting their own tickets for free and further clouding the already fine line between ticket reseller and concert-goer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ETicket scalping\u2014as Mr Locke may know\u2014is very much a business in a number of overseas jurisdictions. We actually use the word \u201Cscalper\u201D in this legislation, which is an American English term. In the UK such people are generally called touts. But there are also established companies called ticket brokers in the business of reselling tickets. If one looks around the world, one finds a lot of literature on criticisms relating to reselling. It is the case that individuals who genuinely wish to attend a popular event may find themselves unable to get tickets, as they have already been sold to ticket resellers in the way that I have just described. That means, of course, that ticket resellers can sell the tickets at market value with no effective loss, because they had no intention of attending the event in the first place. Although one can say\u2014and I am surprised that Mr Locke would espouse this view\u2014that the practice of reselling tickets may be defended on free market principles, most countries have actually outlawed the unauthorised resale of tickets, usually with the exception of situations where the reseller does not profit from the transaction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThat is what we have endeavoured to do in this legislation. I think, if we are to go into the area of anti-scalping protections, that the way that the committee has set the balance is the way that best meets the interests of New Zealand consumers. I do not believe it is appropriate that one should look at the opportunity to purchase tickets for major events as a way for the ticket purchaser to secure gain. That is not what it is about; it is about providing an opportunity for as many New Zealanders as possible to attend particular events at a reasonable cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u00222058832c39d14063b9dc2d6241c4d642\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222058832c39d14063b9dc2d6241c4d642\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014Tamaki):\u003C/span\u003E I commend my colleague Dr Worth for the analytical legal mind that he brings to the issue of scalping. Everything he said is, of course, quite correct, and I endorse it. But I am a little surprised at the line the Green Party is running. I want to bring a little bit of passion to the subject. It is my view that millions of New Zealanders love their sport; they love it passionately; it brings purpose, direction, and enjoyment to their lives. Those New Zealanders would see any suggestion at all of scalping as a most un - New Zealand type of thing to do. There is one thing about scalping that we need to be very, very clear about. One can only scalp tickets if one can secure access\u2014through good luck, good fortune, using the system, one\u2019s mates, or whatever it is\u2014to more tickets than one needs for one\u2019s use. The more tickets that fall into the hands of the sorts of individuals who do not plan to use them for themselves, the more difficult it is for the millions of New Zealanders\u2014those people with the passion and the love for sport\u2014to get their hands on those tickets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI will make one other comment about that, also with a degree of passion. It does not matter whether it is Rugby World Cup 2011, the Commonwealth Games, or an age-grade world championship; I ask members to remember that a lot of the work to make it happen will have been done by volunteers: ordinary men and women who love their sport, and who have a concept of service to their community. We have a responsibility to see that those people are not insulted by those who would take unfair commercial advantage of their efforts, which is what scalping amounts to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Dr Worth said, scalping is now widely unaccepted in many countries of the world. It is unaccepted for the reason that I mentioned before, when I said that it is a most un - New Zealand thing to do: it is an ungenerous act, it is a selfish act, and it is actually an act that demonstrates qualities and attributes that we do not associate with the great New Zealand commitment to serving the community, serving one\u2019s sport, and serving the activity that one loves. Frankly, to me, any defence of scalping is an insult to that type of New Zealander.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in the name of Keith Locke to clause 15 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022564c2cac35fe4aa5aa5767c2b5281280\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 2; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland; Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000466\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in the name of Keith Locke to clause 15(1) be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223a0c5927fbf040c09ddaf6d7a42a8425\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 2; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland; Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000467\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in the name of Keith Locke to clause 15(2) be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d8ca39d18bf74fd393637251c84ad999\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 2; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland; Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022403eec72f97a46a38664f31de9545d17\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. It is 3 minutes past 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022759137ea749d4c98ac185c13fcc3c134\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is right. We can actually interrupt the voting, members. There was no closure; it is only when there is a closure that the voting must continue. I shall resume the Chair at 7.30 p.m., and we will continue with the voting then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.03 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in the name of Keith Locke to omit clause 15(4) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a13899f8408044c790c85cd01fbaa516\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 13\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 2; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000472\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in the name of Keith Locke to omit \u201Cor a clean transport route\u201D from clause 15(5) be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f2b163879ab446a288dc1c8f854e3552\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 13\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 2; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000473\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in the name of Keith Locke to omit Example 2 from clause 15(5) be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223005e06f0b54494a92ebcd993c56f623\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 13\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 2; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022841a1396fcb44daf848a904aeb5d9c3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022841a1396fcb44daf848a904aeb5d9c3f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I notice that there has been a pattern to the voting, and the amendments to clauses 18, 19, and 21 are all on the same issue. I ask for the leave of the Committee for those three questions to be put as one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232abb73ad2104fae9e4f4131d44361d2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action? There is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in the name of Keith Locke to clauses 18, 19, and 21 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cebd1e19c0a64eafb59d97aa1cd0cd1b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 13\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 2; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000477\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 138 in the name of Keith Locke to omit the Subpart 5 heading and clause 25A be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f509b0a74a5e4d53bf7ed2cae86533c7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 13\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 2; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002268539b38ae0f4ff688f7c0c93fb2868f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e5ab1eb77e4418b9ebc54ba16315085\u0022\u003EPart 3  Permanently protected emblems and words\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022 data-id=\u0022c11019249c4d4e60ae73efd9f756e125\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c11019249c4d4e60ae73efd9f756e125\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate on this part, clauses 26 to 32, includes debate on the schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u0022391823173a67456a8cdb45bf84c2526a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022391823173a67456a8cdb45bf84c2526a\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014Tamaki):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take what I expect will be a brief call to speak in support of Part 3 of the Major Events Management Bill. Madam Chair, I crave your patience and that of the Committee for a moment if I appear to wander off in terms of relevance. I assure you that I will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI would like to reflect for just a moment. Last Friday night I had the great privilege to attend a dinner of an outfit called the Carbine Club, in Ellerslie. This is a group of noted former and current sportspeople who get together from time to time to enjoy each others\u2019 company and to assist a charity. It is the sort of organisation in which somebody has to pass on before a new member is admitted. We observed the passing of Ron McGregor, that great man of rugby league. I had the very great privilege to have as my dinner companion that night a man whose name I hope members in the Chamber will recognise\u2014Joe McManemin. He was the manager of the New Zealand athletics team at the Rome Olympics, way back in 1960. I had a delightful night talking to him\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3261ca187f24e598e14952c9c42f229\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Didn\u2019t have this legislation then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dff373bb8ef415f9f345b79b5c23e85\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, not in those days. We did not need it in those days, I say to the Minister. We had this marvellous conversation about Snell and Halberg, winning those two gold medals, and subsequently going on to Perth, and Doreen Porter winning that silver\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe5a6832456f46b1bdbca09cc191771b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No, Perth was before then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270836cb0c9e74f7d90c22c009ad17188\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, Perth was 1962, I assure the Minister\u2014I am old enough to remember. The point I want to make is that men like Joe McManemin have given their lives to athletics, and to organisations like the former Olympic and Commonwealth Games Association. The symbols that this bill seeks to protect are the result, in the case of Mr McManemin, of over 40 years\u2019 work. I think it is important that the Committee acknowledges that, in a way, those men and women own the symbol. They made no financial gain at all from their voluntary effort over 40 or 50 years. Cynics can say: \u201CYes, but look at the trips they had.\u201D, but let me tell people from my own experience that those trips are hard work. They are not junkets. They are hard work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI reflect on another member of the Carbine Club, a good friend of mine, Murray McKinnon, who is currently in Osaka with the New Zealand athletics team at the World Championships in Athletics. To the best of my knowledge, he is the only New Zealand journalist there who will be reporting back to New Zealand on the efforts of our athletes. He has paid his own way, and that is the sort of commitment that, in Part 3, we talk about protecting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI do not believe any organisation, any smart, clever business person, or anybody seeking to make a financial gain for themselves has any right to be able to do that using things like the symbol of the Olympic Committee. I am pleased that this House is protecting that, because we are saying that we acknowledge and respect the years and years of voluntary effort that has gone into this brand, this symbol, and what it represents. So much of what it represents is the very, very best of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI am honoured to speak in support of Part 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223a6a3784ede347a09358466e26d2b970\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a6a3784ede347a09358466e26d2b970\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E This is a relatively simple part of the bill, and I am sure there will not be any objection to it. When I was in Opposition I took part in the original work that amended the Flags, Emblems and Names Protection Act 1981 by way of, I think, two statutes amendment bills. There was unanimity that these emblems should be protected at the time. I think at the time it was a little bit of a rort to put them in with flags, names, and emblems, because they were designed for things that were not, effectively, privately owned in the way that the Olympic and Commonwealth symbols are. I see no reason why the Committee should not just tick this and move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022e33faf9df0794ec4840c8ab888ff0fd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e33faf9df0794ec4840c8ab888ff0fd4\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to join in the words that have been offered by the previous National speaker, Mr Peachey, the MP for Tamaki, in saying that the contribution that Joe McManemin has made should not go unremarked. After all, I well recall, as a young schoolboy and a quarter-miler, having my involvement in team racing run under his direction, and his contribution, which continued across a range of fronts, was truly remarkable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EBut I just pause to say that the Flags, Emblems and Names Protection Act 1981, to which the Minister in the chair, the Hon Trevor Mallard, has referred, is much-amended legislation, and this may not be the most tidy amendment that is being proposed. It is curious legislation, because the principal Act is in four parts. It deals with the New Zealand flag and ensigns, it deals with royal, vice-regal, State, and heralded emblems and names. There is protection of the Girl Guides Association in Part 3, and then a raft of miscellaneous provisions. If one looks at the amendments that have been made to the legislation over time, one sees that a schedule was introduced and a number of particular entities and emblems were protected: the New Zealand Commonwealth Games symbol, the New Zealand Commonwealth Youth Games emblem, the New Zealand Youth Olympic Festival emblem, and the Commonwealth Games Federation emblem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e63e92310a874cbd9db869e1e896cac3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: That was my fault.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265eaf5aef45e4fea9a117cd422e018d7\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: It might well be the fault of the Minister, and I suppose that in the context of the egregious offences he has committed in his lifetime, this would not be seen to be a particularly significant one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EBut we come to Part 3, which is the topic of this legislation. I think it is no more complicated than this. Part 3 is basically a re-enactment of sections 20A to 21 of this particular principal Act, and the schedule of this bill is a re-enactment of schedule 2A of the Act. For some reason, the draftsman considered that it was appropriate to include this provision in the Major Events Management Bill, and that was probably unnecessary. [Interruption] The Minister is making a contribution that I cannot hear; he needs to repeat it so I can respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9f111274a2b445c8ac6a14327e87290\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister asked him to include it because he thought that the old system was a rort.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f45cf263d0346159894a88e522a53ca\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes; that may well be. But I think the reality is that little has actually happened in terms of the change from that legislation to this bill. Probably two things have happened, and those things are that the test in clause 26 has been changed to use the word \u201Cconfused\u201D instead of \u201Cmislead\u201D, as it was used in section 20A, and the penalty provisions in clause 29 have been changed quite significantly. In fact, the penalty is very substantial. The penalty is now $150,000 for breach of these provisions. I think that what is being thrown up in any discussion on that sort of change is how these penalty provisions\u2014fixed through a stream of legislation\u2014are consistent or inconstant, and I am not sure, at all, that it is appropriate the penalty should sit at that level in the context of other penalty provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022814db20d64b941a282df0f38ac328570\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Too high or too low?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ad12b82de034d1a8881b02580c3bda9\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: It is hard to say, really. It seems a very significant amount, at $150,000, when one is looking at what is involved here, but more particularly because significant civil remedies are now to be given, and the criminal consequences of breach are, obviously, less significant for the affected organisation. So I would say, with some reluctance in endorsing Part 3, that it may appropriately be included, but I would not wish that Mr Peachey\u2019s words, in connection with the encomium he offered Joe McManemin, should ever be forgotten.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EPart 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002209fa800888f04434aa11242f6f307e25\u0022\u003EPart 4  Enforcement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u0022634cdcc2a0aa467988c0565ff25720fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022634cdcc2a0aa467988c0565ff25720fd\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014Tamaki):\u003C/span\u003E Again, I would like to take just a brief call on Part 4, because I do not imagine there will be too much division in the Committee over this. The first comment I want to make is that\u2014and again, if I seem to be straying a little bit in relevance, Madam Chair, I ask for your patience\u2014frequently, members of Parliament moving around the country will hear any number of people telling us how useless we are, what a non-job we have, and that sort of thing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b415a19b2354145bdba578aacfe433f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t do that to me!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221617c236166948c6810d43be9928db19\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: I mean those members over there, not me. Every so often they throw a name up at us. Let us not be specific about that, but often one finds oneself in the position of actually being able to say: \u201CNow wait a minute, their name may not always be in the newspapers, and they may not be getting kicked out of the House periodically\u2014all that sort of thing\u2014but the work they are doing down in the engine room in their select committees is very, very sound.\u201D I think there are a couple of examples in Part 4 of work that was done in the select committee, where\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022548850767a0141a590d4f5496fbd2b1c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Maryan Street is great, isn\u2019t she?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a6049e56cba4b0fa05f96b15ce3fdd3\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the Minister that I suspect that the National members probably had somewhat more influence on deciding the shape of these amendments. Both of these amendments\u2014subclause (1A) in clause 65, and clause 51A\u2014reflect very much our point of view, and they temper the harsher intentions of the bill in its original form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E I think it is very important to realise that when something like this is being enforced and there is a requirement for a police officer to be involved, as there is in clause 65(1A), New Zealanders by their nature are much more likely to accept that enforcement and to acknowledge that that is an appropriate action that should be taken. For that reason alone it is good that the work of the select committee has just tempered the harshness of this. I do not believe that New Zealanders want this Parliament to be giving a range of enforcement officials greater power. Where that power is necessary to be given\u2014and I do not question that in this case it is\u2014it is important, I think, that it be tempered in the way provided for in clause 65(1A).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00228310ceb9ea3a4c4c8c5a1adde564a67f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228310ceb9ea3a4c4c8c5a1adde564a67f\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think that this part illustrates the problem with the bill as a whole, in that when one imposes such restrictions on people over such a big area, one has problems in enforcement, which one would not have if one were not so heavy-handed as the State is. Under this provision there is the set-up of enforcement officers, who are not police officers and do not have the normal statutory powers for search and seizure. As Alan Peachey has just said, that is a problem, and the select committee did put in a provision that when a search warrant is issued in relation to the bill, the enforcement officer is to be accompanied by a police officer. As Alan Peachey said, that is a good restraint in the situation and makes it more acceptable to most New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EOther powers and functions of the enforcement officer are detailed in clause 39, \u201CEnforcement officer\u2019s entry to premises restricted\u201D, and clause 40, \u201CPower of enforcement officers to seize or cover things\u201D. A lot of what is in those provisions relating to enforcement officers is not covered by the need to have an accompanying police officer. For example, in relation to clause 9, only in clause 39(c): \u201Cwhen the entry is authorised by a search warrant issued under section 64.\u201D is there the need for the accompaniment of a police officer. The other two subclauses in clause 39\u2014\u201C(a) when the place is part of a clean zone; or (b) when the place is outside a clean zone and it is a place that the enforcement officer may lawfully enter without a search warrant;\u201D\u2014clearly refer to somebody who is not a police officer conducting entry and\u2014to follow up with the next clause\u2014seizure outside of the functions of a police officer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWhen we get to clause 40 we see that it is also about seizing or covering things\u2014the bill talks about covering things. Presumably it refers to, for example, covering adverts. If Air New Zealand is advertising when Emirates Airline is the official sponsor, as is the case in the Rugby World Cup in France, the enforcement officer would have the power to cover the Air New Zealand logo. An enforcement officer may seize or cover anything believed to breach the legislation that is either within the clean zone or, as clause 40(1)(b) states, \u201Coutside a clean zone and it is in a place that the enforcement officer may lawfully be without a search warrant.\u201D Then we get into the sticky area added by the select committee. Consider this example. The clean zone extends to the road around the stadium, and across the road there is private property and someone is trading off that private property. As I understand clause 40(1)(b), an enforcement officer\u2014not a police officer\u2014could come over on to that property and cover something up or seize something. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI might be mistaken there in my interpretation. I am happy to be corrected. But it just shows the problems when we extend powers unnecessarily, as has been done in this bill, when there is no gigantic problem we need the heavy hand of the State to solve here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022383f9a73ece0442ca12ba84701daf1d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022383f9a73ece0442ca12ba84701daf1d2\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E In a crowded gallery and a hushed Chamber I just express concern that the Minister the Hon Trevor Mallard has not seen fit to offer comment on Part 4 of the Major Events Management Bill. I express the wish that he will do so, because there are a number of important aspects that I am sure his officials would have drawn to his attention. The bill is another example, of course, of the type of legislative drafting technique where there are a whole lot of subparts, which might inappropriately limit debate on the substantive part itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EPart 4\u2014and National supports the Major Events Management Bill\u2014is all about enforcement, and the subparts deal with matters of general application, with border protection measures, which I am sure the Minister has thoughtfully considered in subpart 2, provisions relating to enforcement officers in Subpart 3, and provisions relating to civil proceedings in Subpart 4. Subpart 5 is concerned with criminal offences, and Subpart 6 with search warrants. Then, of course, the legislation moves on to the next part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI would like to make some brief comments about enforcement in the context of this legislation, because this is an area that occupied some time in the Commerce Committee and is the subject of some change. A combination of enforcement measures is provided for in the bill to ensure the effective and efficient enforcement of ambush marketing protections. The plan of the drafters, which the select committee accepted was appropriate, was that criminal and civil remedies would ensure deterrents and redress, whilst the extra provisions that were included for administrative remedies would expedite the enforcement of ambush marketing protections, limiting the protection for harm by stopping ambush marketing at crucial times. It is quite right to say, as others have said in this debate today, that in the context of ambush marketing, timeliness of response may often be critical to advancing the interests of sponsors and others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI start by talking about civil remedies. Ambush marketing occurs where the ambush marketer perceives that he or she will gain some benefit from his or her activities. Both as a form of deterrence and, I think, to ensure that ambush marketers do not get paid from their activities, event organisers and\u2014subject to the event organiser\u2019s discretion\u2014official sponsors that have suffered damages or loss will be able to bring civil actions. That is as it should be. The civil remedies available include an account of profits, which is stripping the ambush marketers of the benefit they gain from ambush marketing activities; damages, which as we all know is making good any loss suffered by event organisers; and also corrective advertising, to correct public misapprehension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThat is all I would seek to say on civil remedies, but in addition, of course, to those remedies provided by the legislation there are criminal penalties. The possibility of criminal prosecution for ambush marketing activities I believe will act as a significant deterrent to those considering the possibility of undertaking that type of activity. There are analogies to be drawn in the context of the Trade Marks Act 2002. As Mr Hughes has reminded me, key provisions in section 124 of that Act prohibit a person from knowingly applying a mark to the goods and services that he or she knows is likely to be mistaken for a registered trademark. So much for the civil and criminal remedies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThere is this further area, of administrative remedies. It is usually only possible\u2014as my colleagues on this side of the Chamber have reminded me\u2014to bring criminal and civil proceedings after an event has occurred. There are some exceptions, but the process is complicated and it can be time consuming and expensive. Administrative remedies may very well be an effective enforcement process in this legislation. What is possible? Well, enforcement officers, who are appointed by the Ministry of Economic Development, can do a number of things. They can issue formal warnings to ambush marketers. They can seize offending material, they can obscure offending material, and they can enter premises under limited circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f697ace397114697a2ada26af58b8b62\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Can the member say something to wake us up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f713399e188a48e6aa7e756fbaa1958d\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: One of the issues\u2014and I say this to wake the Minister up from his generally somnolent state\u2014is the police involvement in the enforcement process. The Minister should listen to this, because this was a change. This was not something the officials wanted; this was something they told the Minister they did not want. But the select committee said this is what we would have, and we do\u2014in the context of exercising these enforcement powers on private land, the police are to be involved. It was suggested that the police would not be much interested in that, but the reality is that we need to be hugely careful, as Keith Locke has said tonight, in arming officials with enforcement powers. It is appropriate that when those powers are exercised they be exercised in the presence of the constabulary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI now await the Minister\u2019s comments on what he thinks of these administrative remedies. It is a test for him, I would say, as to his knowledge of the legislation and the approach that has been taken in philosophical terms to provide effective remedies in the case of a breach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00226296608d0e364722afb5591545203600\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226296608d0e364722afb5591545203600\u0022\u003EMARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call on this issue, because I think some things have been lost sight of in the course of some of the recent contributions. During the select committee deliberation on the whole of this bill, great care was taken to balance rights, and to balance those few occasions when rights were being infringed or curtailed in any way. That balance was set against the advantages that might accrue to New Zealand from being able to hold major events of the sort that this Major Events Management Bill envisages and provides for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIt is true that the select committee unanimously decided to amend one of the enforcement provisions in clause 65, \u201CPowers conferred by warrant\u201D, in Subpart 6. This is where we agreed that in order to perpetuate the kind of balance that New Zealanders would tolerate and expect under this legislation, any search warrant should be exercised by an enforcement officer only when that officer was accompanied by a member of the police. The powers conferred by a search warrant, under Subpart 6, are quite extensive. They are, as we would expect, the ability to enter and search the place, vehicle, or thing specified; to use any assistance that is reasonable in the circumstances; to use any force for gaining entry; to search for and seize any thing that the warrant authorises the person to search for and seize; to take copies of documents; and to require somebody to reproduce information recorded or stored in a document. Those search warrant provisions are quite far-reaching, and the committee decided it was a step too far to have those powers only in the hands of enforcement officers who were recruited for the purpose of an event. But enabling those provisions to be exercised under the auspices and the close observation of a police officer simply makes them consistent with other, similar provisions in the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAt every turn in this bill, we were at pains to ensure that individual rights were balanced and that any curtailment of those rights was in fact prescribed and limited, and that is what has happened in this subpart as well. So before people go sounding off about infringement of individual liberty and the extension of the coercive power of the State, they need to understand that the police coverage provisions in clause 65 simply allow for the police to be able to accompany any enforcement officer, whether it be an officer of a city council, for example, or an enforcement officer appointed for the purpose, such as a security guard. Those people must be accompanied by police in order to exercise the search warrant provisions in the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis is sensible legislation. It is not extreme, one way or another. What it does, in fact, is limit powers that are given specifically under this legislation to particular circumstances, at particular times, and in particular places in respect of other provisions in this bill. It is perfectly clear that a good deal of thought has been given to the enforcement part of this bill. Across the select committee, it was unanimously decided that the additional provision of observation and accompaniment by a police officer was sufficient to give comfort to the public of New Zealand that no excessive rights or powers were being granted indiscriminately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022491f30fe6eb84eb1a17189f4afd54b07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022491f30fe6eb84eb1a17189f4afd54b07\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I do thank the select committee for putting in the amendment that both Dr Worth and Maryan Street have mentioned, which makes sure that a police officer accompanies an enforcement officer when a search warrant is executed. That is a good step forward, but it does not get away from subclauses (a) and (b) of clause 39, which relate largely to the action of enforcement officers immediately around the event. They have powers to cover over things and seize things without any police officer being present if the place is part of a clean zone or outside a clean zone. When the place is outside a clean zone, presumably the bill means that, without a police officer by the enforcement officer\u2019s side, the officer will be able to cover over a sign or whatever along a declared clean transport route up to 5 kilometres away, and will be able to seize something from a person if that person is trading from his or her lawn across the road from the clean zone, as covered in another clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThat can actually be for quite a long period, too, because the protection period\u2014and this has not really come out in the debate yet\u2014is not just for the day of the event. Under clause 8, it can be for up to 30 days after the completion or termination of the major event. So one can imagine a situation where, for instance, Air New Zealand could have an advert 4.5 kilometres away and the enforcement officer, without a police officer present, could cover over that advert up to 30 days after the event if, say, Emirates Airline is the major sponsor, as it is at the current World Cup. Similarly, Lemon and Paeroa ads could be covered over if Coca-Cola were the major sponsor, as it is at the coming World Cup in France, or if a Canterbury clothing manufacturer has a \u201CBuy Kiwi Made\u201D ad, that ad could be covered over, because Adidas is the official sponsor at this coming World Cup and maybe at the following one. Heineken is the official sponsor at the World Cup in France; Steinlager might be advertising 4.5 kilometres out, and that ad could be covered over by an enforcement officer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThat could happen under this bill, and I do not think we need to go to that extent to achieve what most of us want to achieve\u2014a successful tournament for the 2011 Rugby World Cup and other major international events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b464e057db85454086dda9fe5936935b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c625cba161734961bce9657ddd82c278\u0022\u003EPart 5  Miscellaneous\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u0022111a8b5c700b461cbd9314412b0ab7a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022111a8b5c700b461cbd9314412b0ab7a0\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014Tamaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c1a6dadcf8c40fbb4e45b52e28dd929\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll have trouble being relevant on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e4d35dcb3e6452a813c95019a0ac17e\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the Minister should watch this. I can handle this. [Interruption] I was going to say that I will take a very short and final call on this bill and speak to Part 5, but if I am going to be taunted and aggravated by the other side I might choose to speak for 15 minutes on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EPart 5, under the glorious title of \u201CMiscellaneous\u201D, covers clauses 76 to 80. It deals with emblems and words protected under other Acts, and necessary amendments to the Flags, Emblems, and Names Protection Act 1981. It also contains provisions for the making of regulations to make the legislation work. I am bound to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022900ee0c063184cdfa206e337189d1ddb\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Read it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280fc81249c604e4189a02fb5b2c5a0d7\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: If the junior Labour whip would like to take a call, he will have the opportunity after I have finished speaking. I do have to say that it is somewhat of a challenge, even for myself, to hold the attention of the gallery, let alone members opposite\u2014not to mention those watching on television and listening to the radio\u2014on what really is just a very, very practical catch-all to draw this legislation to a close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EBut I do want to conclude my comments, since the challenge on the other side to continue has not been that great, by saying that what we have in the five parts that we have been debating, and progressively passing, tonight is the pulling together of a large number of interests, ambitions, and efforts of a large number of voluntary people, business interests, sporting organisations, and the Government to create legislation that is not only workable but will give New Zealand the opportunity to host the Rugby World Cup 2011. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI will make just one last comment while listening to the squawking from the other side\u2014and it has taken them a while to come alive; they normally get into me a bit earlier than they have done. Every New Zealander will be taking a lot of reassurance from the knowledge that come 2011, the Minister who will be acting under this legislation will be a Minister representing a National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4b4bad6df854d0f90dfae0e952dbee9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4b4bad6df854d0f90dfae0e952dbee9\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E So often one is put off by a heading like \u201CMiscellaneous\u201D, and that is what Part 5 is headed. I would just like to explore an angle that probably has not been sufficiently considered by the Committee, and until a few moments ago I had not fully reflected on its significance either. It stems from clause 78. The Minister in the chair, the Hon Trevor Mallard, has opened the bill to look at this. Clause 78 is headed \u201CApplication of Regulations (Disallowance) Act 1989 and Acts and Regulations Publication Act 1989\u201D, and the key part is in subclause (1): \u201CAn Order in Council made under section 6 or 7 is a regulation for the purposes of the Regulations (Disallowance) Act\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ENow, I am reasonably sure that the Minister has no comprehension of the significance of that. So let me tell him what it is. If one goes to the Standing Orders of Parliament, one finds in Standing Order 3 a definition of regulation: \u201Cregulation means a regulation within the meaning of the Regulations (Disallowance) Act 1989\u201D. I sense that the Minister may be on the trail, but not quite there. So I draw his attention to this. These Orders in Council are made under clauses 6 or 7. If he turns back and looks at those clauses, he will see that those are the very clauses where declarations of major events are made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EWhat does all this mean in legal terms? Well, it is something quite simple, actually. What it means is that the Regulations Review Committee will have a jurisdiction to determine whether what the Governor-General asserts is a major event is or is not a major event. That is a hugely extended jurisdiction that this legislation confers. It is actually quite unusual. The jurisdiction is not only in respect of clause 6 but also in connection with clause 7, which is about major event emblems and words. So we have this very interesting situation. Let us say that the America\u2019s Cup is declared by the Governor-General to be a major event. The Regulations Review Committee will have the jurisdiction to say \u201Cnot so\u201D. That will open up these provisions that are to be found around Standing Orders 314 and 315 where the Regulations Review Committee, which comprises eminent, respected, and competent people, will be looking to see whether there are Standing Orders grounds that are breached by what the Governor-General and his advisers have done. So I just offer a view for those who follow me in the future that when one comes to provisions headed \u201CMiscellaneous, such as Part 5, little jewels are often tucked away, and this is one such jewel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002216e9a758334e40f599d5400df6e8b14a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216e9a758334e40f599d5400df6e8b14a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I think there are two points that should be made here. The first is in response to Mr Peachey. I give him an absolute assurance that the recommendations under clauses 6 and 7 will be made by a Labour Minister and not by a National Minister. I am prepared to wager $1,000 on it, now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279053def6fe54fd4ad34050b92d350e7\u0022\u003EDr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House for that wager to be recorded in the Journals of the House, as distinct from Hansard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284b67fc3e3f049d2b8cc2cfd816507a9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: That is not necessary, but if we could have an acceptance from Mr Peachey right now, then we will go for it. Is he prepared to put his money where his mouth is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022467a630a6a79468892265f872e1ae2d7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Part 5\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229365b7b0e9bc4233ae8648cb687fc7b2\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: I would be delighted to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1692ec2a0944becb6351fbb23fbbd0a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: What did he say? I am sorry, I missed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285ece377d8dd4501b1bfb99c31f83eb0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, this is out of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a96cfc47023c4ccba6a5c453573c4700\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He said yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddbec299dcb94b8da2d996ff4f0c3388\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: OK, that is good. I am still going, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022441568e0c0b24f7c9c475048f93a5727\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member just come back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a4144ad4e3840c193e633cef3622f9c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to come back to the bill in the way that this works in, but I think I should give the member a chance to say that this does not happen in the year of the event. This happens, in this case, quite a long time beforehand and might even happen over the next few weeks, so if he wants to\u2014[Interruption] No, no, we are talking about the Rugby World Cup, and if the member wants to withdraw in his ignorance I am prepared to let him do it, because it will be a bit of an unfair bet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f0cf959aab04a55a5ec8872bc5d59ce\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. Could somebody tell me what the hell the Minister is talking about, because I have absolutely no idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff7fb593fd4449d5900f005d84914266\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is the wager that he just bet $1,000 on\u2014in ignorance, I think. I am prepared to let him withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaea316534634ed68e763954e2f3e428\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I thought the Gambling Bill was the next item on the Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dea4339083324e30b20bfd69d2e48631\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: That is a good point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287bf79b62f95407f8f079afd515f7ae0\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I will leave it to the member to decide later on. The other point, which I think is an important point, that Dr Worth has raised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c16d3002ae654a67890dc0c0fd40366c\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: A doctor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e408b82d5f9e442e9cbd07f4226fbde5\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: He is a doctor\u2014a part-time doctor, but he is a doctor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce66a0535a8e41c0b2dea1b4cae8fb00\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Really, a quack?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bf64b05398142929b4ada039fcbe9fd\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, not one of them. He is one of the doctors who makes one sick, not one that makes one well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E The point to make to that member is that the regulations disallowance area was something that was very, very deliberate on the part of the Government. We have a very high test here, and we want to make sure there is a degree of unanimity about it in Parliament before it is applied. I accept that some of the powers are along the lines of what Keith Locke has said, and that they are somewhat draconian. There is some loss of civil liberties and some balances occurring here, and we wanted to make sure that through the Regulations Review Committee and Parliament there was a wide basis of support for the application of this legislation in each and every case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EPart 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002239c459f910c24010ab6401184dcb3856\u0022\u003ESchedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aac0e8c45ff24b63936a3610ac96008b\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022b909318a5170460ab5e61ab0adda7a6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b909318a5170460ab5e61ab0adda7a6d\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the title of the Major Events Management Bill. As has been clearly pointed out in the course of this wide-ranging debate in the Committee stage, the aim of this bill is to prevent unauthorised commercial exploitation at the expense of major sponsors. We are talking about some key events here. We are talking about the Netball World Championships in 2007, the World Rowing Championships in 2010\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212700bf03d6f4372a236312119c3eef9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Not the netball.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c810275095d447ee886db9d26f88c6fb\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: We are not talking about the netball; I apologise. We are certainly talking about the World Rowing Championships, the Rugby World Cup in 2011, and the Cricket World Cup in 2015. These are key events that we need to focus on. They are particularly poignant for me in that I can look back on the events that my father was involved in as an All Black throughout the halcyon days of the late 1950s and 1960s. We had the likes of Waka Nathan, Colin Meads, and Sir Brian Lochore playing then. It is poignant because, if we look back to those days, we see that what those men had on their jerseys was the silver fern. Advertising and sponsorship were second degree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267269f8c2dc341acad4bc51245c7e99c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No TV.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e3c1b82a74741ef9c0c9362278c281e\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: There was very little TV\u2014they were different days. Since then, time has moved on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIt is also poignant for me because Tom Johnson, my own electorate chair back in Napier in Hawke\u2019s Bay, was on the council that went to Canada and that took up the original proposal for the initial Rugby World Cup.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d5a452e7f8a474da75d29609b7a2a64\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Before the member was born.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc9771b283240c7bd480cade2944de5\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was not before the member was born, though it was close to it\u2014it was back in about 1985, if I recall correctly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIt is poignant, because if we look back on those old days, there was limited sponsorship. Now, however, the sponsorship is totally different. Companies have realised the potential of these events. Let us look at the Nike example that occurred at the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games. Nike had probably one of the most amazing ambush marketing campaigns that has ever been seen at an Olympic Games. It cost $50 million for sponsors just to be on the starting list at that particular games, but Nike did not step up to the game there. It refused to be a sponsor. However, behind the scenes it plastered the city with billboards, it handed out Swoosh flags all around the stadium, and it erected an enormous Nike centre within the city. It was a huge ambush marketing campaign. At the end of the games, some surveys were done and people in the city actually thought that Nike was the No. 1 sponsor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe reality is that to hold major events in this country, or in any nation for that matter, we need sponsors. It is a reality of life. If we cannot provide a return on the investment made by those sponsors, then they will not be there. I think that the Greens need to understand this. New Zealand is poised in the fantastic position of being able to host many, many events of a world standard, and if we cannot provide clean stadiums, then we will not get those events. These events have the ability to bring significant revenue into this country, and unless we can provide clean stadiums, we will not be able to provide those events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d41615af6824b6e95e8f92fc22201b9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Stadia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227020c396218d41b6b17e741d077c3648\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Stadia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI would like to finish my contribution tonight by going back to the types of things that this bill will provide. It will retain memories in this nation of Rugby World Cups and of our key sporting heroes. They are memories of events that I can talk about after listening to my own father, such as one that happened at Athletic Park in 1961. Many members will recall that test, when the All Blacks sneaked home at 5-3 in a nail-biter. Members will recall an 80-mile-per-hour gale that whipped off the Southern Ocean and straight down Athletic Park. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a053d139fe41f7a239881bb93a7254\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Was the member born?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bd5b65c52a740389749521b8e9876c0\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: It does not matter; we still need to recall the memory. With 15 minutes to play the game was tied at nil all. A try finally came\u2014not to New Zealand but to France. A pass from Connor had missed Wolfe 30 yards from the French line and, before Wolfe could recover the loose ball, Piqu\u00E9 had grabbed it and was making upfield. Bearing left, he drew McKay infield before tossing a pass to the now unmarked Dupuy, who bolted the last 40 yards to the line, scoring 8 yards in from the left corner. Albaladejo failed at the almost impossible task of converting into the teeth of the gale. From the restart McKay narrowly missed scoring, but from a scrum on the French line, Lacroix passed to Lacaze to clear. The fullback\u2019s kick was charged down by Tremain, who fell on the ball 10 yards in from the corner. Don Clarke took the conversion attempt back to the 25 and kicked almost parallel to the goal line in time for the wind to catch the ball and miraculously carry it over the bar to give New Zealand the lead and to cruelly dash the French hopes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIt is events like these\u2014memories like these\u2014that this bill will help. We must ensure that we in this country continue to hold events like this. They are why I, for one, certainly support this bill. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002204b365ccffa9440f921bae82c3772a67\u0022\u003EGambling Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8cc4f52dcca421984c5f70a0c05f702\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e80052618db94f1f9ca71d79cfabb7ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e80052618db94f1f9ca71d79cfabb7ab\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Gambling Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be referred to the Government Administration Committee. This bill amends the Gambling Act 2003. The Gambling Act is large and complex, and, as is common with new legislation of this nature, a number of issues were identified as requiring improvement during its implementation. The Gambling Amendment Bill (No 2) contains many technical amendments and some minor policy enhancements to clarify the law and remove any uncertainties. On balance, I think that the Gambling Act is working pretty well, so there is no intention of making any significant policy changes. The Act is relatively new and needs to be given a chance to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThis bill is designed to address the technical changes that need to be made in order to assist the department and the gambling sector to engage with more clarity. Work on the bigger issues identified in the reports into allegations about the Christchurch Casino is under way. It would be premature at this stage to address those issues through what is largely a technical bill. We are focused on finding solutions to the issues raised in these reports\u2014issues that the Department of Internal Affairs has been aware of for some time. Once we have developed a more comprehensive understanding of the issues, I will invite officials from across the Government to come together and map out appropriate solutions. This process will allow both the Government and the sector to build a solid platform on which to help reduce the opportunities for problem gambling and criminality in the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI will now summarise some of the minor policy enhancements in the bill. One of the Gambling Act\u2019s objectives is to ensure the fairness and integrity of games. To further assist with the achievement of this object, the bill introduces minimum disclosure requirements for non-cash prizes. The Act already contains a prize disclosure regime, but it is only partially achieved and in a fragmented way. Introducing a statutory requirement for accurate disclosure of non-cash prizes would both provide more certainty and remove any inconsistencies between requirements for different types of gambling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe bill contains a number of measures intended to assist its community funding objectives. These include clauses requiring venues that host gaming machines to bank community profits directly into the society\u2019s dedicated account. This amendment responds to the practice whereby some venues have been banking society money into their own accounts for a few days and occasionally have not been able to account for it when it is time to bank the money into the society\u2019s bank account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EAlso included are explicit obligations on community grant recipients to use grants from gaming machine proceeds appropriately, including it being an offence for non-compliance. This measure reduces the risk of a grant recipient misappropriating gaming machine proceeds. The conflict of interest safeguards are extended to apply to all persons who make decisions on gaming machine grants. Currently, they apply only to those key roles in the management of the society. The bill specifies in more detail the circumstances in which a gaming machine society, such as a club, can apply gaming machine proceeds for its own purposes, as opposed to when it can make grants to community groups. At present, the Gambling Act does not provide sufficient clarity on this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe bill provides added flexibility for clubs wishing to merge to address financial viability issues. The Act currently allows two or more clubs to apply for ministerial approval to operate up to 30 gaming machines at the venue on which they merge. However, they may merge into an existing 18-machine venue only if the number of the 18-machine venues is limited. So the bill will allow clubs to apply for ministerial approval to operate additional machines at any venue, even if that venue would not otherwise be an 18-machine venue. Access to this facility would still be subject to territorial authority consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EA number of measures are intended to assist with the achievement of the Act\u2019s harm prevention and minimisation objectives. One clause reflects the recent experience with the Dunedin Casino\u2014the suspension case. This clause clarifies that gaming machines and casino operators have an ongoing duty to take all reasonable steps to assist a person they have identified as a potential problem gambler. Essentially, this means that it will not be enough for an operator to just approach a person on one occasion, provide information to that person about problem gambling, and do nothing further if the person\u2019s gambling behaviour continues to be of concern. The bill also provides that the gambling venue staff do not have to issue a venue exclusion order to persons who approach them and identify themselves as being problem gamblers if those persons do not provide a reasonable means of identification, such as a recent photo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EAnother clause requires casinos and gambling machine operators to keep records of problem gambler exclusion orders that they have issued, and to provide a report on those records to the Secretary for Internal Affairs, if requested to do so. The bill modifies the Act\u2019s harm prevention and minimisation regulation-making powers to include regulating the means of payment to participate in gaming, prescribing content and training standards for problem gambling awareness training\u2014currently, only very general requirements can be prescribed\u2014and restricting or prohibiting eftpos and other means of accessing money for gambling at the venue. Currently, only ATMs can be regulated, but the harm potential of, say, a mobile eftpos device might be similar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EAnother clause is designed to make it easier to conduct research on gambling in real-life gambling environments. The clause authorises the Secretary for Internal Affairs to temporarily approve gambling equipment for operation in a gambling venue for the purpose of testing whether the equipment\u2019s introduction will facilitate the attainment of the Gambling Act\u2019s objectives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EA number of clauses in the bill are designed to assist the Gambling Commission with the performance of its functions. One clause enhances the Gambling Commission\u2019s protection from liability along similar lines to the immunities provided to statutory entities out of the Crown Entities Act 2004. Another clause provides the commission with the flexibility to determine when it sits as a division and to decide whether division includes the Chief Gambling Commissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill ensures that the Gambling Act binds the Crown. The Act was introduced prior to the requirement that all policy decisions on proposed legislation seek a decision on whether to bind the Crown. The general principle is that the Act should bind the Crown unless the application of an Act to the Crown would impair the efficient running of the Government. There are no such factors at work here. The introduction of this bill is designed to address the technical changes that need to be made, in order to assist the department and the gambling sector to engage with more clarity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EWork on bigger-picture issues identified in the reports into allegations at Christchurch Casino is under way, and I would say to the House that it is premature to address those through what is largely a technical bill. Officials are currently working on having a better understanding of the issues identified, but once this work is complete we will be in a position to address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThis bill is important, as it introduces a number of initiatives that are designed to ensure that the Gambling Act continues to work as originally intended. The bill provides the opportunity to implement these measures without leading to a premature review of such fundamental approaches taken by the Act. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002254812e1a4467428280c9e745b27d4f72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254812e1a4467428280c9e745b27d4f72\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I may well have missed it, but according to Standing Order 284 the Minister should indicate which select committee the bill is going to. I did not hear whether he said that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fcd7627e2e14deb83964138b575d305\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u00226be68397b0e1429d8b62e8674ac34f5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226be68397b0e1429d8b62e8674ac34f5b\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I say to Mr Roy that the second sentence I uttered was that at the appropriate time I intended to move that the bill be referred to the Government Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf98e295e7ef404996d9c8a844317443\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022220f60ed1bb4472998ba0224178e7802\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022220f60ed1bb4472998ba0224178e7802\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E As the Minister said, the Gambling Amendment Bill (No 2) is a technical bill, and in the first instance I want to draw the House\u2019s attention to page 19 of the explanatory note, where it states: \u201CCasino and class 4 venues are required to exclude self-identified problem gamblers from the gambling area of the venue for up to 2 years, and to remove them from the venue if they return in that time.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EIf we look at the Act, we see there is a conflict, because section 310(1) states that a venue manager or a casino operator must \u201Cissue an exclusion order to a person that prohibits the person from entering the gambling area of a class 4 venue or casino venue (as the case may be) \u2026\u201D. If we were to then look further at section 311(1) of the Act, we would see that it states: \u201Ca person acting on behalf of \u2026\u201D a venue manager or a casino operator \u201Cmust remove any person who enters the gambling area \u2026\u201D. So here we have a conflict. In one part of the Act it states that the venue manager or casino operator must \u201Cprohibit the person\u201D and in the other part it states that the venue manager or casino operator must \u201Cremove the person\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EDuring this debate I will highlight the inconsistencies that are in the Act and what this amendment is actually portraying it will do. Section 312(4)(b) of the Act imposes a $10,000 fine on the venue manager if he or she knowingly fails to remove a self-excluded problem gambler who has entered the gambling area. But there is no fine\u2014no fine at all\u2014for knowingly failing to remove a venue-excluded gambler who has entered the gambling area. So here again is a major discrepancy in this interpretation. If a voluntarily self-excluded person defaults, that person is penalised, but if a venue operator excludes a problem gambler and that person defaults, then there is no penalty. That is a discrepancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESimilarly, a self-excluded gambler cannot stay in hotel accommodation at the venue, because, as I mentioned, on page 19 of the explanatory note of the bill it states: \u201CCasino and class 4 venues are required to exclude self-identified problem gamblers from the gambling area of the venue for up to 2 years,\u201D. We understand that; that is very clear. But it goes on to state: \u201Cand to remove them from the venue \u2026\u201D. The venue in this case is not just the gaming area; it is the whole complex. It includes the accommodation as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EClause 84 of this amendment bill amends section 312 of the Gambling Act, and substantially changes the onus of proof for a charge relating to a \u201Cbreach of exclusion order\u201D. If an excluded person enters the gambling area, whether or not the operator knows that person has entered, then it is an offence. The current provision in the Act states that the venue manager, the holder of the casino operating licence, or a person acting on behalf of those persons, are liable only if they knowingly allow the person to enter the gaming area or knowingly fail to remove a person who enters those areas. The current procedures are based on identification and removal after entry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EHowever, under the proposed changes in the bill, allowing the person to enter will be a strict liability offence. What is the case if the person uses a disguise, or changes his or her appearance? It will be difficult to identify an excluded person in this case, unlike the identification of a youth in the context of the Sale of Liquor Act due to age limitations. The question will be whether this new section will in any way minimise and prevent harm as envisaged under the Gambling Act, or whether it will just work against venue operators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EClause 85, which inserts new section 312A, needs close attention. The proposal there is that a self-excluded gambler will be required to register with a third party, if the secretary\u2014which presumably refers to the Secretary for Internal Affairs\u2014requests. That is quite inappropriate. The self-excluded gambler\u2019s requirements for privacy should be paramount. Otherwise, for many the act of self-exclusion may not be forthcoming. Demographic information, including age and gender, could be recorded without personal information. Nowhere in the Gambling Act are there any requirements for a self-excluded problem gambler to be registered in any way with a third party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe Department of Internal Affairs\u2019 Gambits publication, dated 2005, shows how many gamblers were excluded over a 12-month period. I quote from that publication. Those excluded by casinos in that period numbered 188, and those who were self-excluded\u2014they took it upon themselves to exclude themselves\u2014numbered 593, which was a total of 781. So that was a 12-month period for which those exclusion orders were applied. In the Gambits publication of June of this year, June 2007, it states that casinos across New Zealand exclude between 50 and 60 patrons per month. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EClause 86 amends section 313 of the principal Act. This is an empowering provision, which extends the Department of Internal Affairs\u2019 regulatory powers. There is no definition, at all, for what constitutes \u201Cinducements to gamble\u201D. What does it mean? The Department of Internal Affairs, under the Act, is responsible for everything. It is responsible for gaming policy, for enforcement, for licensing, and for regulation. The Department of Internal Affairs is judge and jury, and this clause 86 delegates to it the power to create, implement, and enforce regulation without the scrutiny of this House or of a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ENational members have some reservations about certain clauses in this bill, which I have outlined, and we will want answers during the select committee process. However, we are happy to support the first reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb9672388966490b963da9ba95ca128b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb9672388966490b963da9ba95ca128b\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak in the first reading debate on the Gambling Amendment Bill (No 2). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226986f119e73441b3888323ed888e5d60\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What do you know about gambling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d33210efc34f432aa7f302ac9d5fc825\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I know quite a lot, and I tell the member that if he listens he will hear. Many people believe that gambling is a scourge on our society, and I do not disagree with that. We could all wish that gambling did not exist in New Zealand at all, but people have always gambled in one way or another, and some to excess. There is no doubt that gambling brings with it a whole lot of problems, and that is why the Labour-led Government introduced world-leading legislation in 2003 after the growth of casino and pokie-machine gambling during the 1990s. Can members guess who was in Government then? Only National! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the Gambling Act 2003 was to control the growth of gambling, to prevent and minimise the harm caused by gambling\u2014including problem gambling\u2014to authorise some gambling and prohibit the rest, to facilitate responsible gambling, to ensure the integrity and fairness of games, to limit the opportunities for crime and dishonesty associated with gambling, to ensure that the money from gambling benefited the community, and to facilitate community involvement in decisions about the provisions of gambling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe legislation we are debating tonight at its first reading is designed to build on that work by clarifying the law and removing any uncertainties. My wonderful colleague Sue Moroney, that well-known horse racing expert from the Waikato, gave me a really good tip about gambling. She said that I should never gamble more than I could afford to lose, and I have taken that advice very seriously. Apart from having the odd punt on a horse, I am not a gambler. But I do know a little about casinos, and I have had quite a lot to do with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWhen our largest casino opened in 1996 in Auckland, there was much commotion from the National Government about growth in the local economy and local jobs. I went to the jobs expo held for interested workers in 1995, where 18,000 people turned up hoping for a job in what they then saw as a glamorous industry. What they did not know was that Harrah\u2019s, which was building the casino, intended to take full advantage of the then National Government\u2019s anti-worker employment law that empowered employers to dictate pay and conditions in an environment with high unemployment and a climate of fear. So those poor workers who came to work at the casino turned up bright-eyed and keen, but low pay, long hours, and the anti-union management culture soon led to a lot of disaffection and a high turnover among staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EHarrah\u2019s, and then Skycity, flourished under National\u2019s totally supportive gambling regulatory regime, with a focus on profits for the tourism and entertainment industries. Regulation was light-handed. So were other things like health and safety, workers\u2019 rights, and gambling restrictions. In my former job I spent a lot of time at Skycity Casino\u2014for my sins\u2014or at least outside it, because the employer would not let unions into the place until Labour became the Government. But the workers did want to talk. They wanted to talk about some of the poor conditions, the lousy pay\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cf623166cc949e289e0603c8f4ca7e0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but I say to members that the rules permitting interjections are predicated on the assumption that the person being interjected upon has the call. A number of interjections have been going across the House and neither of the parties involved has the call. Interjections are not permitted at all if they are directed at a member who does not have the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1d51f203d2646c79ba915766bc29784\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: The workers wanted to talk about the poor conditions, the lousy pay, the forced 12-hour shifts in some departments, and the unjustified sackings. The bright shiny casino of those times had not only a growth in problem gambling but an exploited workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EMy first real dialogue with management came as the Employment Relations Bill was going through Parliament, and the key person in charge of human resources at Skycity Casino then was an ex \u2013 Red Squad member from the 1981 Springbok Tour\u2014funny that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c29d5b7efe664317b35e3ba594edb8a8\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t Ross Meurant, was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8f69e5d12e6477cbe868a719f13c1f3\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was not Ross Meurant; it was someone like him, though. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThree things changed at Skycity Casino when Labour became the Government. Firstly, we brought in fairer labour laws, which meant that Skycity had to engage with union members in collective bargaining. The first collective agreement was signed in 2001, and that took quite a struggle. One of the great victories all those years ago was to achieve a $10 an hour minimum pay rate, which just goes to show how hopeless the National Party was at getting wages up. Of course, since then wages have continued to rise and conditions have improved enormously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe second thing that happened was that the Gambling Act 2003 came into being, the purpose of which I have already mentioned. That changed casino and other gambling in New Zealand. Out went the focus on economic imperatives and the huge profits at the expense of the local population, and in came harm minimisation and keeping the lid on gambling. We were delighted that the explosion in casino building came to an end with that Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe third big change\u2014and I pay tribute to Steve Chadwick for her contribution to this\u2014came with Labour\u2019s legislation to ban smoking in workplaces. Casino workers were right behind that legislation because they were sick and tired of working with second-hand smoke. It was yet more foresighted legislation by this Labour-led Government, and it is today widely supported by the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe legislation before the House today for its first reading is a tidy-up of the Gambling Act 2003. Inevitably, with a large Act of Parliament like the one of 2003, changes need to be made to make this very tight regulation of New Zealand\u2019s gambling industry as effective as it possibly can be. The Gambling Amendment Bill (No 2) contains technical amendments and some minor policy enhancements to clarify the law and make it work as it was intended to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe aim of the bill is to make grant recipients use pokie grants appropriately, to extend the conflict of interest safeguards to all persons making decisions on gaming-machine grants, to strengthen the requirements on venues banking gaming-machine profits, to widen offences and regulations for gaming-machine operators and licensed promoters, to introduce requirements for the accurate disclosure of non-cash prizes, and to provide more flexibility for clubs wanting to merge gaming-machine operations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe recent reports about loan sharking and money-laundering in casinos are very alarming, and these are issues that do need addressing. However, this largely technical bill may not be the right vehicle to do so. I am confident that the work under way to deal with these issues will result in Government action. The loan sharking revelation of last week showed that the Department of Internal Affairs was already hot on the tail of that odious person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the very real concern about pokie machines. As an MP working in South Auckland, I share the worry of those communities about the impact they are having on family lives. Therefore, I am particularly interested in the proposed amendments that will assist with the Act\u2019s harm prevention and harm minimisation objectives. However, I can only imagine how bad the situation would be today if Labour had not introduced its world-leading legislation to allow local authorities to restrict the growth of gambling in their communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWe need to continue to work together with the community to ensure that local authorities use the tools in the Act as effectively as possible. The Gambling Act specifically allows councils to consider their overall numbers and density as well as neighbouring land uses and the characteristics of neighbourhoods. Communities are becoming more actively involved in these processes, as we recently saw with the 7,000 submissions that were handed to the Manukau City Council calling for tighter restrictions on pokie machines. A campaign is now under way to cap the number of pokie machines in Manukau. Other local authorities have already acted to put limits in place, and some have sinking-lid policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that the submissions on this bill will be very wide-ranging, and that the passionate concerns communities have about problem gambling, and the crime that is inevitably associated with it, will be reflected in many submissions. This will inform the debate about the things we need to do in the future to ensure we continue to minimise the harm that gambling can cause, and limit any growth in gambling. I look forward to participating as a member of the select committee in the process, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1b5735f0a934543a74a7ac252bc0332\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1b5735f0a934543a74a7ac252bc0332\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I too take a call on the Gambling Amendment Bill (No 2). As our first speaker, Lindsay Tisch, said, National will be supporting this legislation going to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EIt is important that we get the rules right on issues like gambling. This bill is largely a complex and prescriptive piece of legislation. It is rather difficult to make headway through it unless one has the principal Act in one hand, because lots of snippets are inserted here and there to clarify and help the understanding of the principal Act. So the bill in itself does not make sense without applying it to the principal Act. I mentioned that it is a complex and prescriptive bill; I am always a bit mystified when a bill is tabled in the House and the explanatory note exceeds the bill itself, and that is very much the case here. There are some 33 pages of explanation and a similar number of pages to the actual bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EGambling is an issue that we have to legislate for. It is certainly a significant part of the New Zealand psyche. It is not unique to New Zealanders, and it is not unique to Anglo-Saxons. At this time I think that various members might confess their involvement or participation. I have to say that I am not a gambler. Only once or twice in my life have I been encouraged or tempted to have a bet; it is just not something I do. But I have an interest in observing what happens. I am so perplexed as to why people should want to use their time on gambling as entertainment that I get some enjoyment out of watching them, even though I am kind of mystified by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EAbout 18 months ago I was at a convention in Reno\u2014it was in January, the year prior to last\u2014and in the evening in winter in Reno there are really only two activities. One is the strip club and the other is the gambling machines and the casinos. It should be recorded that I went to watch what happened in the casino. I was fascinated to watch Texas hold\u2019em, which is a game that has currently got quite a bit of media attention. The dealer was setting up the table and I wandered over to see how it all worked. She said: \u201CAre you going to join the table?\u201D, and I said: \u201CNo, I don\u2019t think so.\u201D, and she asked: \u201CWhat\u2019s with you, mister, are you religious or something?\u201D. I was trying to figure out what sort of response to give to that kind of question when she said to me: \u201CWhat\u2019s the difference between someone praying in church and someone praying at my table?\u201D. I said: \u201CWell, it beats me.\u201D, and she said: \u201CWell, here they really mean it.\u201D I think that says quite a bit, and there is real truth in it, and I can see that members appreciate the sentiment behind it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EBut as I mentioned, this is not just an Anglo-Saxon pastime. I have been in casinos in West Africa, in the Gulf, and in Europe. Certainly, there is something in the make-up of people that makes them want to get involved in gambling, and so it is that we need to control that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI want to relate to the House a conversation I overheard on talkback radio about 3 or 4 weeks ago, when there was quite some discussion about pokie machines. It showed why we need to have some very prescriptive and precise rules on them. There was some debate about how they operate and where they work. A gentleman called Francis Wevers came on air. I cannot recall his association, but he was chief executive of some sort of gaming-machine association\u2014and no doubt he is probably listening and will correct me in his submission to the select committee. He commented that in New Zealand, pokie machines alone, if I recall correctly, have a throughput of $9.5 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a1fbc10c493453b83d2073c51787b38\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cbb6b0cdfcf4949a3444879a4a36bc1\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: It is $9.5 billion. About $7.5 billion of that goes back to be recycled at different stages in winnings, about half of the remainder of $2 billion goes to the owner of the machines, and the rest goes on tax and various other administrative costs. That is just pokie machines. If we look at Lotto, at dogs, at racehorses, and at casinos per se, we see that the money spent is huge. That is what actually happens in New Zealand. We need to get our heads around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThis bill does not lower the bar on any of the controls. What it does is clarify them. I believe that it is essential to clarify them and that they need to be tidied, and that is why we are supporting this bill going to a select committee. We need some discussion about the accuracy and the intent of the principal Act. That is what this bill does. It actually clears up these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThis bill is very much about definitions and about how the various entities work. It includes definitions about venues. For example, what is a gambling venue and how should it work? It is about licensees. It is about who should be a licensee of a gambling establishment\u2014who those people are, what they should do, and how they should conduct themselves. It is about classes of gamblers. I do not know what the relevance of that is, because I have not had time to go right through the principal Act. It also talks about prizes and what they can be used for. It talks about the banking that is associated with gambling. There are a whole lot of definitions in the bill that help clarify all these issues. As I say, one needs to read the principal Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI have been reading this bill for about half an hour, and I am perhaps a little surprised that given that there have recently been some issues about inappropriate behaviour around casinos, with loan sharking, with a range of people making a living out of what we would all agree was extortion\u2014living off rorting interest rates\u2014I cannot see where in this bill that area has been tidied up. Clearly, there is a problem. It has been identified and has had a lot of media attention. I hope it is in here\u2014sometimes one misses things on a cursory glance\u2014but going through the headings and the explanatory note I cannot see where it tightens up those provisions. I believe that that is an area this bill should actually address. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWe acknowledge that gambling happens. We are not going to change that. Essentially, what we need in gambling is fairness and integrity in the process. There also need to be some very clear provisions on harm minimisation and addressing the issue of problem gamblers. Part 3 of the bill tightens up those provisions a little bit more. I certainly hope they are able to deliver in situations where there is a problem with gamblers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that is complex, it is quite prescriptive, and it needs to be read in conjunction with the principal Act. I just hope that New Zealand has a close look at this, and that the submission process is well contributed to. One sees that the significance of gambling in New Zealand is simply huge, when one looks at the amount of money involved and the number of people who participate in it. That is not to say it is something we should eliminate. That is simply not practical. But it is something that we need to control and manage. We certainly need to have a focus on problem gamblers and those areas where there are elements of extortion or inappropriate behaviour. I trust this bill will do that\u2014if not in its original draft, then after it has gone through the submission process. I commend the bill to the select committee, and I look forward to its report back and to seeing its deliberations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a17fbe0563594dcaa01393a053018eba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a17fbe0563594dcaa01393a053018eba\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I think I should confess that in my younger days I was a gambler\u2014I was a gambler. As a merchant navy officer it was an activity I got well involved in, and I have to say that from time to time I am tempted now. I was tempted at the weekend, Mr Assistant Speaker\u2014and I am sure you will understand this\u2014but Arsenal let me down. I felt certain, and I would have had a bob on it, that they would have beaten Blackburn Rovers. I know that you, personally, know a little bit about Blackburn Rovers, Mr Assistant Speaker\u2014a knowledge that probably others in the House do not share.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ca07aaeea7b4e90b899c301014d1182\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Haven\u2019t got a clue what you\u2019re talking about!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2f9edbce60648a79fa0ba5488e64cb4\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The member over there does not have a clue about what we are talking about or what he is listening to. In shipboard activities we used to play cards quite frequently. If one takes a successful measure of gambling as being the amount of money one wins, then I was quite good at it, because I usually won. We used to play poker and pontoon. I even won a cribbage tournament and a significant amount of money. Indeed, on one ship I won money on Monopoly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233b072babf6f45e2a8b4742878f2d2cd\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: That would be right\u2014funny paper money!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b28e3884e8e4d2a88233132e34df006\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I say to that member that I won real money on Monopoly. One never knows what merchant seafarers used to get up to. As I walked through the lobbies yesterday\u2014and this is true\u2014a young reporter came up to me and asked me whether I had ever been to a strip club. I spent a significant amount of my time as a merchant navy officer, yet I was asked whether I had ever been to a strip club! I am not confessing to going to a strip club, but I am confessing to having gambled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI have seen the downside of gambling. I have won money\u2014luckily, I guess\u2014but I have seen the downside of gambling. If I cast my mind back I remember that I have seen crew members, when their gambling was mixed with alcohol, attack one another with knives, with weapons. I have been the officer who has had to intervene to calm those crew members down. I have seen seafarers go ashore and lose\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa6ec465650542359fb3a8274d2022ff\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Now he\u2019s talking about the New Zealand First caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271ed2232914543888f3fe1ee412e6512\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The member thinks that this is a joke. He thinks that the bill is a joke. [Interruption] The member at the back is a joke; Tau Henare is the biggest joke I have met when it comes to politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe downside of gambling is very significant. I have seen seafarers in particular go to clubs and sit behind pokie machines, sometimes operating two or three at a time. I have seen that happen in this country with shore-based people. I have seen them lose almost the shirt off their back\u2014I am talking about some of the fellow seafarers I have sailed with. There is a downside to gambling. I am fortunate that I was not addicted to it; I enjoyed the fun of it. I enjoyed a day at the races\u2014I have not been there for quite some time\u2014I could put the odd dollar on here or the odd dollar on there, and I could walk away. But I could not really understand why everyone did not have the same attitude. I have seen people who continued to bet, to invest their money, and to almost lose their shirts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe Gambling Act that was passed in 2003 was a step in the right direction. This legislation is an amendment to tidy up the flaws and to address the shortcomings in that Act. I listened to Eric Roy; I thought he made some very good salient points, and he did it with a degree of humour, on which I congratulate him. I listened to Lindsay Tisch, the National member, before him, who also made some points about how the Act is not gelling together correctly. But those issues will be taken care of at the select committee. This is an important bill. It is exceedingly important that the gambling industry operates corruption-free. It is an industry that must have integrity, as Eric Roy said before me. It is an industry that is important to New Zealand but it must be well run\u2014it must be run fairly, and it must be run straightforwardly, as everybody understands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe have in this country an expanding horse racing industry, and it is a large credit to the Rt Hon Winston Peters that the taxation regime around that industry has been improved no end. There is potential for it to develop and to become a major industry\u2014a major tourism industry, may I suggest. That is the importance of gambling-type industries to this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe area of problem gamblers, though, is significant. If an individual does not have the control of self-discipline, then society has the obligation to impose discipline. We cannot allow the activity of gambling to undermine the lifestyle of any\u2014the lifestyle of families or the commitment of one member of a family to another\u2014as it has the capabilities of doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E It is very important that this House sends this bill to the select committee. It is pleasing to note that what is a Government bill, obviously, has the support of both the Government and the National Party, and that for once they are not playing politics. They are going to send the bill to the select committee and make an honest endeavour to get it right. I think it is well understood by MPs that if this sort of legislation is not handled correctly, then somebody will suffer. It will not be MPs, but somebody will suffer. There must be controls on gambling to protect society from itself, if you like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will support this bill to go to the select committee. We do not have a member on the select committee, so we are putting our faith and our trust in Government and National members to apply themselves to this bill in a conscientious and diligent manner. I know that Mr Tau Henare will not have a clue what I mean when I say that, but his colleagues will tell him that this is an issue that has to be addressed comprehensively by the select committee. [Interruption] Do members hear the ramblings in the background?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257a98e66ecdc4e35aab05ca28c0968f8\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Hear the ramblings in the background.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022267aa96ccaab41c5b477661f8d2b524e\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, hear the ramblings!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bb9820ee4c74b2c92ae1912439d2add\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Hear the ramblings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d211b067bf45442b8b36b2574072e6ae\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! The member should have been a comedian. Oh, he is a comedian.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI hope that the select committee will address this bill in the manner it should, and that the bill comes back to the House in a correct form. I take the points that Lindsay Tisch made. I hope that the bill comes back in a correct form that will advance the legislation of this country, so that gambling legislation will be all the better for it. New Zealand First will support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u00221193b4c5d019486bb6ce9da511578cca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221193b4c5d019486bb6ce9da511578cca\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Three years ago, in 2003, the Gambling Bill passed through this Parliament without Green Party support. At the time, we believed that bill was a woefully inadequate response to the proliferation of harmful gambling opportunities in this country. I believe that the past 3 years have proved our analysis to be, sadly, correct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIn that time pokies have continued to flourish, particularly in our poorer communities. There are still over 21,000 pokie machines operating in New Zealand, and in some places their impact is particularly dire. For example, recent figures show that Kawerau, the district with the country\u2019s lowest median income of just over $17,000 a year, has the dubious honour of spending the most on pokies per head of population. In just 3 months, between April and June this year, the 72 pokies in the Kawerau district took in $111 for each of the district\u2019s nearly 7,000 people\u2014that is men, women, and children. If we take babies and children out of the equation, and all those who do not gamble, just imagine how much some people in Kawerau are pouring into those machines. Nearby Rotorua, also a low-income area, has the third-highest spend on pokies in the country. In Northland there are almost three times more pokie machines per person than the national average. Kait\u0101ia, for example, has 158 pokie machines per 10,000 people, which is way above the national average of 59. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIn districts like these, and many others of a similar demographic, a very few people are losing an enormous amount of money, which is contributing hugely to the eternal cycle of debt and despair in which so many affected individuals and families subsist. Pokies continue to be the predominant source of gambling harm in New Zealand. That is no surprise, given that these machines are deliberately designed by psychologists to addict people, and that they are conveniently placed in our poorest districts to catch the most desperate amongst our population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EAt the same time, it is clear we also have serious issues around what is happening in our casinos. News reports over the last few months have started to reveal the unexpected extent of criminality associated with life in at least two, if not more, of our major casinos, particularly those in Christchurch and Auckland. Although the Green Party has welcomed belated recognition by the Department of Internal Affairs, in two recent reports, that organised crime, money-laundering, and loan sharking have a firm foothold inside our casinos, we are really unhappy with the way the Minister of Internal Affairs seems so relaxed about what is happening, and does not seem to realise the serious nature of what is going on there. He does not seem even to understand the illegal nature of some of the activity, or that ongoing harm is being done to individuals, their friends, their families, their employers, and their communities, for as long as he so calmly tolerates it. I wish that Mr Barker could open his ears and his eyes to some of the stories from the problem gamblers whose lives and whose families\u2019 lives have been completely wrecked, and that he could begin to comprehend the seriousness of the situation in which this country finds itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe Green Party continues to call for a full public inquiry into the state of gambling in Aotearoa New Zealand, as we believe that this is the only way victims of harmful casino and pokie-related activity can have the confidence to come forward confidentially and reveal what they know, and be taken seriously, without fear of reprisal. At the same time, the Green Party believes that it is imperative that the scope of the Gambling Amendment Bill (No 2) before us today is substantially broadened. This bill could have been a heroic effort by the Government to deliver major reform to overcome some of the worst impacts of the gambling sector. Instead, it is a series of what the Minister, the Hon Rick Barker, himself calls \u201Ctechnical amendments and \u2026 minor policy enhancements\u201D and nothing else. Because on the face of it these new minor amendments are in themselves useful, the Green Party will not be opposing the new bill at its first reading, but we may well change our position to one of opposition to the bill if it is not subject to major changes during consideration by the select committee and the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThis bill provides us, as responsible members of Parliament, with an opportunity to institute major reform of the gambling industry in this country, rather than just continuing to tinker around the edges. I do not accept the statements made by the Minister and Darien Fenton earlier in this debate tonight that a bill like this is not an appropriate vehicle for major reform. There is nothing to stop this Parliament from using it in this way, if we have the will. I am sure we are going to see a large number of submissions encouraging us to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThere are a number of additions and changes that the Green Party would like to see made to the Gambling Act through this amending bill. First of all, the loophole regarding the requirement for territorial authorities to consult when reviewing policies needs to be closed. Currently, local bodies can roll over their gambling policies indefinitely, without any public consultation. This needs to be stopped. Second, I believe we should be considering whether class 4 consents\u2014that is, consents for pokies\u2014should last for an infinite period, or whether they should have a set time period, similar to liquor licences. Third, councils should have the ability to place conditions on consents, and not be limited as they are at present. Ultimately, the Green Party believes that councils should have the power to determine whether there are any pokies in their district, at all, and not have to live with the current situation in which they are gravely restricted in the limits they can place on numbers and siting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EFourth, the Gambling Act should promote the adoption of best practice in terms of harm prevention strategies. For example, currently the Act does not allow the use of, or even the trial use of, new strategies such as pre-commit cards or player tracking systems. Consumer protection requirements, including host responsibility, should also be enhanced. Fifth, we believe there should be disincentives against the gambling industry benefiting from problem gambling. Problem gamblers account for a disproportionate share of gambling revenue: over 25 percent of it comes from 1.2 percent of people\u2014those gambling problems. Sixth, distribution processes for gaming-machine funding should maximise community benefit and transparency, and ensure equity in terms of its distribution. Although the Gambling Act made some reforms in this area, we still have a long way to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe Green Party believes that if we are going to allow the blight of pokie machines to exist in our communities, the proceeds that go to community purposes should, ideally, be distributed through publicly accountable mechanisms like the Community Organisations Grants Scheme and the national and regional lotteries distribution committees, rather than being allocated by the private pokie trusts. At the moment many community groups are held hostage by the fact that they receive funds from the pokie trusts to keep going. On top of this, such groups are often trucked in to, for example, local body hearings in places like Kaikohe and Rotorua, and many others, to explain that pokies must continue in that district so that the local hospice, rescue helicopter, or sports club can be adequately funded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E This is a sad indictment on the way in which parts of the community sector have themselves become addicted to pokies, just as the individual players are. Even councils can fall prey to this addiction. For example, it is ironic that the council in Rotorua has itself benefited from over $900,000 in pokie grants\u2014income derived from losses made by some of its poorest residents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EAs well, the ability to prohibit and restrict Internet gambling needs to be revisited by this bill in the light of current international decisions and the existence of sites like RaceO NZ, about which the Government seems unable or unwilling to take action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EOn 1 August this year the first set of figures from the Government\u2019s electronic monitoring of gambling machines showed that spending on pokies increased by just under 5 percent between 2005-06 and 2006-07. This means that either the new electronic monitoring systems are spelling the end of scams and rorts that saw a portion of takings hidden by pokie providers, or the gambling trusts have perhaps been less than fully honest in their recent lobbying of MPs and community organisations about their supposed decrease in takings, and hence their reduced ability to fund community and sporting organisations. What is really going on with those trusts, when in fact the proceeds are going up by 5 percent, not declining?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIt is high time that the Government and this Parliament took a much stronger position on reducing the harm being done by gambling in this country. Ordinary people understand the problem. Just a few weeks ago around 7,000 people in Manukau City made submissions to their council, calling on it to adopt a sinking-lid policy on pokies in their district. They understand what is going on in South Auckland. They care. It is way past time that MPs and parties in this House\u2014from all sides of the House\u2014caught up with those people in South Auckland and took serious action to reverse the unacceptable social and economic costs that are being inflicted. This bill gives us an opportunity to do just that, and I call on other parties and MPs here to join me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u00227a597a22db274535836b90dc69e54496\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a597a22db274535836b90dc69e54496\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E Ten\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I would like to take a call on this bill, as one who enjoys a game of blackjack, and pontoon, and craps, and one or two others. However, I do want to highlight the danger of problem gaming. The biggest-ever sales promotion leading up to Lotto\u2019s 20th birthday this Saturday, 25 August, is full of expressions of joy. We are told that: \u201CSince Lotto was launched in 1987, New Zealanders have won over $3.6 billion in prizes, there have been thousands of happy winners and thousands of happy stories of positive changes in people\u2019s lives.\u201D Well, I hate to be a killjoy, but the story of gambling in Aotearoa is not exactly happy, happy, happy, joy, joy, joy. Sure, there have been changes in people\u2019s lives\u2014massive changes. Some researchers estimate that between 1 and 3 percent of New Zealand adults have experienced problems with gambling at some stage in their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EOf course, it is not just an individual problem. On average, 10 to 17 people are affected by the problem gaming of one person. It is also estimated that only 15 percent of those with problems associated with gambling seek help. There will be many more affected people who are not receiving assistance. Gambling affects families and communities, to tragic ends. In monetary terms, $35 million is gambled every day here in Aotearoa\u2014$35 million\u2014and $5.5 million is lost every day. It is money lost by people, many of whom can least afford to lose it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EIt is not just about some harmless fun with an armless bandit, a shuffle of cards, and a roll of the dice to see whether Lady Luck will strike. Gambling creates enormous harm, especially in communities identified as high-deprivation or low-income. Dr Lorna Dyall describes this as an environmental hazard due to the placement of gaming machines in areas that are predominantly decile 1 on the deprivation scale. Consequently, the M\u0101ori Party has always said that we should manage gambling as a social hazard rather than as a harmless leisure pursuit. Just as people in communities are protected through management of chemical and biological hazards, so too should there be protections in place to safeguard our well-being from gambling, which we know is hazardous to health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EIn this context, obviously the fact that the Gambling Act 2003 has not been all plain sailing concerns us. The Act is a large, complex, and very prescriptive piece of legislation, so it is not surprising that there have been difficulties with its implementation. The purpose of that legislation includes both controlling the growth of gambling, and minimising the harm caused by problem gaming. Those are worthwhile goals\u2014goals that we will support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EI turn to controlling the growth of gambling. As the first aim is to reduce the activity of gambling, it is a major problem that so little progress has been achieved since the Act was introduced in 2003. The Department of Internal Affairs released figures on 1 August, showing that the spending on pokies in bars and clubs has increased by just under 5 percent in the last year. The department installed an electronic monitoring system in April, so we are able to produce accurate figures on pokie expenditure for the first time. We have to wonder what is going on when despite the legislation and despite the regulations, the spending has still shot up by 5 percent. It is disappointing, but obviously necessary, that 4 years later we have to revisit some technical amendments, to clarify the definitions sections and the various provisions relating to gambling venues and their enforcement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe heed the advice of the Problem Gaming Foundation that this review provides us with a great opportunity for all parties to get in behind substantial reform of the gambling industry. We in the M\u0101ori Party have been calling for investigations into loan sharking and money-laundering at casinos, and we have been consistently advocating for M\u0101ori to have a clear role in deciding the place of gambling in Aotearoa. This bill may provide us with the opportunity to do that. But we are pleased that the bill introduces some new provisions to identify and assist problem gamblers, which we absolutely support. Gambling is a huge problem for M\u0101ori. Ethnicity, and in particular identifying as M\u0101ori, is now described as a key indicator of the likely risk of problem or pathological gambling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EDr W\u012Bremu Manaia of the Problem Gambling Research Initiative has reported that for many M\u0101ori people, their low socio-economic status makes them particularly vulnerable to gambling problems. What concerns us is that although one in three people who are utilising gambling treatment services identify as M\u0101ori, reports indicate that M\u0101ori underuse the gambling treatment services in relation to need. There are a lot more M\u0101ori out there who are experiencing gambling-related harm than perhaps the figures tell us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ESo what does this mean in real terms? Well, in 2003 the Salvation Army surveyed people accessing food banks in South Auckland. Over one-third of the people applying for food parcels had a problem gambler in their household, and, of that third, 80 percent had two or more children. The legislation now requires venue managers and licence holders to take all reasonable steps to assist a person identified as a problem gambler. It includes prescribing the content and training standards for problem-gaming awareness training. The legislation also introduces statutory requirements for casinos, class 4 operators, to record problem-gambler exclusions, and provides relevant information on request. Those are positive interventions, which we are pleased to support. They demand greater attention to detail, and care to identify and record individuals at risk, and all of that has to add to greater awareness and a commitment to change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EI want to draw the attention of the House to the courage and commitment of communities in fighting the hazards of gambling. Last week I heard some great news coming out of my electorate in Tamaki Makaurau. South Auckland is heavily targeted by the pokie trusts, because they know that low-income people are more likely to develop problem-gaming behaviour than other sections of the population. Gaming machines are in fact five times more likely to be concentrated in the two most deprived deciles, along with 50 percent of the TAB outlets. So it is hardly surprising that M\u0101ori and Pasifika peoples in South Auckland are over-represented in the statistics of people affected by problem gaming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EEven worse, there is a false illusion painted that gambling returns funds to the local community. The legislation requires that a minimum of 30 percent of gambling profits must benefit the local community, but that is the community at large, not necessarily the local community from where the money was gained. The Problem Gambling Foundation estimates that the local economy is losing 17 times more money than what the community groups are receiving back. Against that context it was really wonderful to hear last week that nearly 7,500 submission have been received urging tighter restrictions on the number of pokie machines in Manukau. These 7,500 submissions were from people standing up to take control of their community, challenging the armless bandits to release their grip on the people of South Auckland. There are also many strong advocates, such as Dr Lorna Dyall, who have been calling for changes to the Gambling Act to empower communities to have the authority to remove gambling venues and pokie machines from outside of their area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe should expect there to be more cultural content in the existing services and that there should be increased cultural competence on the part of clinicians. We should expect a role in developing policy and legislation to deal with the problems, alongside the Crown. That would involve tangata whenua membership, as of right, on the bodies that regulate gambling. The elimination of gambling harm must be an outright priority for this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party members will support this bill. We look forward to hearing in the select committee process the ideas and advice about how best to facilitate community involvement in decisions about the provision of responsible gambling activities, and which sections of our communities benefit from those activities. We support the first reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022c608ca408ffa4a659dc55d891f587ee6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c608ca408ffa4a659dc55d891f587ee6\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I stand on behalf of United Future to speak on the first reading of the Gambling Amendment Bill (No 2) 2007. As the Minister of Internal Affairs, Rick Barker, stated, this amendment bill is both technical and policy driven and responds to implementation difficulties arising out of the 2003 principal Act. Part 1 of the bill makes about 14 changes to definitions, Part 2 has about 64 clauses that are devoted to amending provisions relating to classes of gambling and classes of gambling institutions, Part 3 relates to harm minimisation, and Part 4 has some technical details.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EOverall, the bill intends to widen the suitability criteria for gaming machine operators and licensed promoters, to cover a wide range of offences and management provisions. For instance, if a person has been the director of a company in receivership, or a company that has been placed in receivership in a 7-year period, that person is not suitable. If a person has been disqualified to act as a director of a company under the Companies Act, that person is unsuitable. If a person is prohibited under the Insolvency Act from acting as a director, that person is also considered unsuitable. Interestingly, though, the bill narrows the time frame under which a person is considered historically unsuitable from 10 years down to 7 years. I will be interested to see what submitters have to say about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EOne of the second purposes of this bill is to introduce explicit obligations on grant recipients to use pokie grants appropriately, including an offence for non-compliance. This is a particularly interesting area, because many community groups, in greater numbers, are refusing in principle to apply for grants from pokie machines, feeling that it would be perverse to have their services funded by the proceeds of gambling. The same organisations have expressed to us in United Future their huge pleasure in our ability to have negotiated with the Labour-led Government for a lifting of the cap on rebates on charitable donations, so that community and charitable organisations are able to receive funding from a source that is more legitimate and that ethically measures up to the work they do. However, it is even more tragic to think that those who do apply for a grant could actually at times be doing so under false pretences, and we welcome the tightening-up of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThis bill also extends conflict of interest safeguards to all persons making decisions on gaming machine grants\u2014not just those with key roles in the management of societies. It also strengthens the requirements on venues to bank gaming machine profits. That is an attempt to make sure there is much greater transparency regarding how much money has been taken from gambling activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe bill also seeks to enhance regulation-making powers to better deal with problem gambling. This is largely about exclusion orders. Where a person has self-identified as a problem gambler, the legislation seeks to make sure that those venues the person has requested to be excluded from follow through on that commitment. The bill widens the class of person required to use the policy to identify actual or potential problem gamblers to include people like venue managers, so that more people are being very watchful. The interesting thing, though, in this particular part of the bill that I think needs further scrutiny by the select committee is the fact that the penalties for breaching that requirement have been reduced from\u2014I think, from memory\u2014$10,000 down to $5,000. That is quite a substantial reduction in penalty. I would like to hear that reduction justified, and I would like to hear what people have to say about it during the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces requirements for the accurate disclosure of non-cash prizes, as a consumer protection measure. I think that is a very wise inclusion. It provides more flexibility for clubs that wish to merge their club and gaming machine operations, to address financial viability issues. This particular part of the bill is something I also signal some concerns about and interests in. In the commentary on the bill it states that it is expected, as a result of this amendment bill, that there will be an increase in funding for the activities of clubs that operate gaming machines in order to raise money for their own community purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI am not sure whether it is still true today, but I remember some years ago discovering that organisations like St John Ambulance survived and were only financially viable because they owned pokie machines. At the time I considered that quite a bizarre set of circumstances. I am not sure whether St John Ambulance is still funded in that way, but it certainly concerned me then. This provision says that the Government wants to be able to increase the opportunity for community groups and non-profit groups like St John Ambulance to increase the funding they receive from those investments they have in gambling machines. I have some concerns about that, and I share the sentiments that have been expressed by others in the House tonight. Pokie machines are the cocaine of the gambling industry\u2014that is very, very clear. Surely, we should be making sure that the number of pokie machines is determined by regional considerations, not by the funding needs of local community organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E United Future is hugely hopeful about the next financial year, when non-profit charities register with the Charities Commission and those who give to those organisations recognise the huge advantages they now have in their ability to give more of their income and receive a much better return in their tax return. We are hopeful that we will see a decreased reliance by charitable organisations and community bodies on the proceeds of gambling, as New Zealanders step up to the mark and start to put their hands in their pockets, knowing that there is a much more generous response by the tax department to their willingness to support community activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe are happy to support this first reading of the bill, but we signal that we are keen to see some of these issues clarified at the select committee. We are very keen to hear what submitters have to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad74239529f244f89d3fc75b53955e9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad74239529f244f89d3fc75b53955e9c\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Tonight we have listened to various speeches, all basically in support of the first reading of the Gambling Amendment Bill (No 2) and its referral to the select committee. It is interesting that it is also a time of confession. We heard about Eric Roy\u2019s dilemma over whether to go to the gambling parlour or the strip club. Obviously, he chose correctly. We heard about Peter Brown and his days of being a sailor and gambling. We heard about Dr Sharples playing cards. Well, I can tell members that when Parliament used to have all-night sittings, plenty of gambling was going on around the offices here\u2014and maybe the odd drop or two of whisky\u2014and people used to play cards until the early hours of the morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a15e2626888f45b5ba07e32f1a2723e9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Bring it back!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228477dfa2b6304fff89b6c3a20c87e796\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, perhaps we could bring it back. It might be more interesting. Since it is time for confessions, I tell the House that I was the Minister who took the original Gambling Bill through the House, but people should not forget that gambling did not start in the year 2003. It has been going for a long time, and, of course, we have tried to make sure that things are better than they were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EI agree with Dr Sharples that the effect of pokie machines is very devastating in South Auckland. It is something that I believe is impacting on that community. On the other side of the coin, of course, are the sports clubs, schools, and cultural groups. I think Judy Turner mentioned St John Ambulance. All those groups have, over the years, become dependent on the income they receive from pokie trusts. I think it is quite good that they get money, but, of course, becoming dependent on that money is something else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EThis bill is welcomed, I think, because we will look at some technical amendments. I imagine that those who submit on the bill will not make terribly many technical submissions. They will be either for or against gaming of any kind. It was not that long ago that Lotto started\u201420 years. Since it is time for confession, I must say I have my tickets in my back pocket. I will probably be back here working next week, because I will not win, like lots of other people. That is what gambling is about. People have a little bit of hope. They think they will strike it big, and it is worth, maybe, 20 bucks to have a go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aafb33489f164759a153a0c0b03ab1d6\u0022\u003EBob Clarkson\u003C/span\u003E: A bit like the Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220a458b3e55e473abdf12e03f3b7349d\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It is a bit like the National Government\u2014a pack of gamblers from way back. They gamble against the ordinary taxpayer in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EI am pleased that the Minister is also taking up the much bigger issue, which is the allegations about the Christchurch Casino. I think that is very, very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EWe have many people who are addicted to gambling. We feel sorry for those people who are addicted to alcohol, and we do something about it. We spend almost $50 million a year on those with gaming addictions. That all comes out of the big pool of money, and, of course, with that we are probably only scraping the surface. A lot of people do not know where to turn for help, or they keep it from their families. When they hide it from their families, there is a problem. In the Counties-Manukau area there are people who are still too scared to come forward for help. Sandra Goudie mentioned that a lot of money was available, but people were not using it. That is one of the problems. It is an education problem\u2014to get people to realise that if they have a mental health problem, an addiction problem, they can go for help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EI am quite pleased that this bill will go to the select committee, and, as I said earlier, people will make submissions. I doubt whether many of them will stick to the technical amendments. They will try to open the debate up again. I do not mind if people do that, because I think talking about it is important. The publicity it will gain will help with the gaming issues in New Zealand. I support this bill\u2019s referral to the select committee, and I am sure people will welcome the opportunity to make submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Government Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dbf53dec1dac47f6bbf5e9c8f225e577\u0022\u003EWills Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022081b91b835e24942b9d2b9600d86da9a\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f73bdb6f4654459fba8e4b340e3eff3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f73bdb6f4654459fba8e4b340e3eff3e\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Commerce)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Associate Minister of Justice: I move, That the Wills Bill be now read a third time. At the outset can I acknowledge my colleague the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, who is not with us tonight because of a bereavement in his electorate, which he has rushed back to attend to. That is probably with a degree of poignancy, given the fact that we are dealing with the Wills Bill, so I would like to place that on record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Wills Bill is of significance to all New Zealanders. Anyone who wishes to make provision for one\u2019s family and the disposition of one\u2019s property when he or she dies has an interest in this legislation. Wills allow a person to protect the interests of future generations. They give the will-maker the peace of mind of knowing that loved ones will be looked after when he or she has gone. Accessible and well-functioning wills legislation is therefore of vital importance to society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhen the Law Commission reviewed the existing legislation in 1997, it concluded that the current law generally worked well and there was no call for dramatic change. However, the commission did recommend consolidating the existing legislation into a single, plain-language statute and modernising certain elements of the existing law. The Law Commission\u2019s work on the original report, and its subsequent contribution to readying the Wills Bill for introduction, have made this revision of the law relating to wills possible. The Government has demonstrated its commitment to implementing a number of Law Commission proposals. These bills, all of which arise from Law Commission reports, update key statutes and make the law more accessible. I am very grateful to the Law Commission and also to the Justice and Electoral Committee and, in particular, to certain members of this House for their valuable contributions to the development of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Wills Bill will improve the standard of legislation on our statute book and make the law more user-friendly for the average New Zealander. The intention of the Wills Bill is to make the law clearer, ensure that better effect can be given to will-makers\u2019 intentions, and make it easier for certain people to make wills. The key purposes of the Wills Bill are, first, to create a single, plain-language statute, and, second, to modernise key aspects of the existing law. The legislation governing wills is currently contained in a series of separate enactments. The main Act comes from the United Kingdom and dates back to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022473010f457af413cb6aa24d2b3738bba\u0022\u003EDr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: 1837.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e18007136f45e8a98fa311bf2e9f15\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well done, Mr Worth. It is wonderful that Mr Worth is paying such attention on this occasion. It has been substantially amended by, and must be read together with, a number of amending Acts. When combined with the archaic language used, the current legislation is very difficult for most people to read\u2014except for Mr Worth and Mr Finlayson, of course. Therefore, the Wills Bill restates the law in a single statute in plain, modern language. The process of modernising and improving the language of the bill has also been substantially contributed to by the Justice and Electoral Committee, which made a number of sensible changes to the drafting and language of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ETo the extent that the bill modernises the substantive law relating to wills, it essentially follows the Law Commission\u2019s proposals. These changes improve the legal framework for will-making. They make it easier for certain people to make wills and mitigate the risk of a will-maker\u2019s wishes being undermined by a poorly drafted or executed will. Overall, they allow better effect to be given to will-makers\u2019 intentions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWills speak for people who are no longer able to speak for themselves. Legislation that makes it clear what is required for an effective will eases the burden on the will-maker. Legislation that also offers avenues for overcoming defects in the will, when the will-maker is no longer able to do so for himself or herself, eases the burden on those who are left behind. In that regard this is a bill that is worthy of commendation to this House, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00220487c615386044e8a7341b64b7dac741\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220487c615386044e8a7341b64b7dac741\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Minister for her kind and generous words about the work of the Justice and Electoral Committee. I endorse what she said about the good work of the Law Commission, and I would also mention the Ministry of Justice officials who, I think, made a great contribution to the work of the select committee as it reviewed this bill. Given the Minister\u2019s excellent summation of the legislation, I will not attempt to go over that material again. I endorse what she said; that can all be taken as read. I simply want to say that I am very pleased we are at the third reading stage of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI am also pleased that this is one of three law reform projects that will shortly become law. I would say this about law reform: I believe that law reform is a subject that should transcend party politics. I think it is very good that in the dying days of this Labour Government, the Prime Minister has discovered law reform. But a display of energy after 8 years of laziness is, quite frankly, disappointing. It behoves National-led and Labour-led Governments to pay attention to law reform. I certainly endorse what Sir Geoffrey Palmer of the Law Commission said a few years ago: \u201CKeeping the law up to date is important for the commercial life of the country and for the better functioning of society.\u201D That statement is nowhere more applicable than it is to this legislation, which, as the Minister has said, will replace the Wills Act of 1837 of the United Kingdom Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EIt is simply not good enough that some law reform projects languish. As I said, the wills project is almost completed. But let us look, for example, at the law of limitation. We should consider the very poor performance of the legislature on that issue. The Law Commission in 1986 was asked by the then Minister of Justice, Geoffrey Palmer, to look at limitation defences in civil proceedings. It came up with a report on 31 October 1988, and nothing happened to that report. In 2000 the Law Commission published another paper on limitation law. Nothing has happened, yet time and time again the courts of this country have been asking the legislature to act on that important area of the law. Most recently, the Supreme Court commented that New Zealand law concerning limitations was long overdue for consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI say this in a bipartisan way: Parliament has to lift its game, as it is currently failing the public. The Wills Bill is a good start. In the last 12 months we have already dealt with the law relating to evidence. Shortly we will be dealing with arbitration, homicide succession, and property law reform, and the select committee is currently dealing with sedition. But many other reports of the Law Commission need to become the subject of legislative action, and it is high time that Parliament lifted its game.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff6f942425864e3ca44b9e848571c19a\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Name them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd361cf8287447bdb783de99b9f6a7b1\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The last time the member asked me to name them, I started to name them, and that caused groans from the Labour benches. So I will not accede to his request but, rather, I will continue with my speech. I will name them afterwards to the member if that really interests him, although I suspect that it does not do so. Before I was rudely interrupted, I was saying that Parliament has to lift its game. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI refer to an outstanding speech, which was just recently handed to me by Dr Richard Worth, that he gave in 2004 on the subject of law reform. One of the things Dr Worth mentioned was the possibility of our introducing to the New Zealand Parliament a Main Committee, or a second but parallel Chamber, which is basically a large select committee to which business can be referred and where decisions have to proceed with unanimity. The Main Committee was established in 1994 in the Australian Parliament to minimise business overload in the House and increase opportunities for all members to participate. So legislation like the wills legislation, homicide succession law reform, and matters such as that would be referred to the Main Committee, comprising about 40 members of the Australian House of Representatives. In a non-adversarial and cooperative environment, devoid of some of the petty points-scoring we sometimes see in this Chamber, there can be substantive debate in the House of Representatives on non - party-political, but none the less very important, legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI think it is time that the New Zealand Parliament considered that, because even now it takes too long for non - party-political, but none the less important, legislation to get through this House. Much of the work of the Law Commission could be brought into force a lot more quickly if we had something like a Main Committee. I commend that outstanding address by my friend Dr Worth to all members of Parliament. They should read it, they should understand it, and they should implement that proposal as quickly as possible. So, in a John Fitzgerald Kennedy kind of way, I exhort all members of Parliament to work together as parliamentarians to ensure that important law reform projects do not languish for as long as the wills project has, and certainly for as long as the limitation project has. In fact, limitation is an important area that still has not been looked at by this lazy Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Wills Bill is good law. It replaces ancient legislation and is generally expressed in clear and accessible language. But may I close by warning laypersons of the desirability of continuing to have the legal profession draft their wills. In my first reading speech I spoke about certain testators whose wills had resulted in litigation. Generally, those wills were drafted by the testators themselves, so for the benefit of Mr Hughes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c328616a33b4461b74c4fe8b8a99e5e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Young Mr Hughes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0c762d59b7c45b483a872fdd49ddf71\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014young Mr Hughes\u2014I will mention this excellent poem:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EYe lawyers who live\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003Eupon litigants\u2019 fees,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAnd who need a good many \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003Eto live at your ease,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EGrave, wise or witty,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003Ewhate\u2019er your degree,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EPlain stuff or Queen\u2019s Counsel,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003Elisten carefully to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EWhen a festive occasion\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003Eyour spirit unbends,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EYou should never forget the profession\u2019s best friends;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ll send round the wine\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003Eand bright bumper fill,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ETo the jolly testator\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003Ewho makes his own will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAnd I do think it is an important point, notwithstanding that we have renovated the law on wills, that it is expressed in clear and unequivocal language, and that concepts are made much simpler and easier to understand, that I still exhort laypersons not to try to draft their own wills but to ensure that the legal profession drafts them. If one reads my first reading speech, one will see many examples of cases where wills have come to grief because people have tried to draft their own wills, be it on eggshells, as I told the House, or in some other peculiar way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo this is a good bill, and I am pleased that it will shortly become law. But I really do think that in recent times that has been the exception rather than the rule, and that too many law reform projects have stalled because of a lack of attention by this Parliament. I really do endorse what Dr Worth said in that address in 2004: that law reform is too important to be left to party politics, and that we should contemplate having something like the Main Committee, which can consider this sort of legislation very effectively indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022800a3e7a019c4f17995faf767348d02c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022800a3e7a019c4f17995faf767348d02c\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a speech that has been described by third parties as outstanding, delivered to the Australasian Law Reform Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200708225327876166514e5a9722cbda309dccc0000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"