"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226fd69f7382bd4248b0ccfe55785f9ecf\u0022\u003EWednesday, 12 March 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022891b70eefb9149018b55f8a6b416723f\u0022\u003EWednesday, 12 March 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f13e699f6e6c48d4b85d947c51486a99\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022774784b6bb7143a1816dd316be9bf3f3\u0022\u003EMember\u2019s Bill\u2014Leave to Introduce\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca784ad1e7c4402e9268fb9a359165af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca784ad1e7c4402e9268fb9a359165af\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek leave to introduce a member\u2019s bill in my name that incorporates Dr Cullen\u2019s recent Order in Council into the Overseas Investment Act, and lists Auckland International Airport Ltd as a strategic New Zealand asset that cannot be sold into foreign control. I ask for this bill to be set down for a first reading on the next available day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ea4e1aad7014c6a869802a4fd125e2f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is no objection. [Interruption] Leave is sought to put that. There is no objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u0022810339974bb5463c98663a4f37479feb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022810339974bb5463c98663a4f37479feb\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My understanding is that you had already accepted the leave, and that therefore the bill should be introduced. It was only after the leave had been accepted that Rodney Hide raised an objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de611a92603e485694786b334c80415b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Frequently, unfortunately, because of the level of noise in the House, it is difficult to hear. Because I did hear something, I put the question again, and it was clarified. A member objected, and those are the rules, so the bill will not proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b6f7ad36cf64517ac68375c0d0de2cf\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223bf29cd9b56b4bc2b9e6e7c40a5e11e1\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be354f68422240999ff691dcec5b67c7\u0022\u003EPublic Service\u2014Ideas\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022df6ddaa1e3134383a4f04152c237e4b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df6ddaa1e3134383a4f04152c237e4b0\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her response, when asked whether her Government got many of its ideas from the New Zealand Public Service, \u201CNo. It is a very blunt answer but it is true. We generate the ideas.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u0022567601028f934a9287e2ba144d87de37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022567601028f934a9287e2ba144d87de37\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207bb4c6d7f824209b5f5a4c962620667\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: If the Government does not get its ideas from the Public Service, why has the biggest-growing sector of the New Zealand economy since 2000 been Government administration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edf2ef91597743c68cda3bd8804056d0\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, someone has to work up and develop the brilliant ideas of the Labour Government, like KiwiSaver, Working for Families, the emissions trading scheme, the Energy Strategy, 20 hours\u2019 free early childhood education, and many others I could name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdfd9e62bd504aeea1920190c06bcfe8\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister received any reports on extravagance in the New Zealand Public Service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4350735ae1847c6adc45e3ff5ca2d70\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As a matter of fact, I have. I did see reports about videos having been made for the Department of Work and Income in which the then chief executive, Christine Rankin, appeared on one occasion as the mother-in-law at a mock wedding, and on another dressed in a full length fur-trimmed silvery coat, climbing on to a wharf. The mind boggles. That was in 1999. The employees who saw the video were warned by Mrs Rankin not to talk to the media. She is of course now a very prominent member of the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3a5c7f6cf584b3a9745c10196e0aa1c\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c10630a377a420db63d03eb840aa62c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question will be heard in silence. Anyone who interrupts will be asked to leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bfffce4d1354212bf141f1e9e34ade0\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think that all of the reports and strategies being produced by the Public Service are of good value, important, and necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5734426af034e4bb578db5f50dfcae2\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: They surely are an awful lot better than having no ideas, no policy, no strategy, and not even being able to understand a simple statement made yesterday about an upfront $700 million investment in innovation in the primary sectors, which is totally supported by those sectors and opposed by Her Majesty\u2019s Opposition leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcd93927347740deb00487969972de4a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Prime Minister as to whether on the question of the acquisition of ideas she intends to avail herself of a supplier of ideas as set out in this complaint made to the chief executive officer of APN, which is the owner of the New Zealand Herald, which states: \u201CHowever, the potential effect is to portray all New Zealand newspapers owned by APN as subservient to political interference. The risk is that the readers will perceive the Herald \u2026 as open to National Party influence.\u201D; will she avail herself of that outlet of ideas\u2014namely, APN, which runs so much of this country\u2019s print media, as everybody knows, and as I have told people for a long time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3fedb61cc9d4b86b50b1aca80ea0577\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It would be very difficult to borrow ideas from the National Party, because there are not any. I hope that on this side of the House we never go down the low road that those members went down in their bullying of a junior journalist and an editor of a regional paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fecacf5f2cf4976a5ba28b740366754\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen any reports of extravagant conference expenditure by Government departments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214820f26f014949979296001598eee3\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As a matter of fact, I did. A quarter of a million dollars was spent by the Department of Work and Income on a conference for staff at a resort hotel in Taup\u014D in 1999. Of that, $168,000 was spent on chartering planes, and the Audit Office found the travel arrangements for the course had a \u201Csecretive flavour\u201D, which was \u201Cinappropriate\u201D. The chief executive who organised those arrangements was none other than Mrs Christine Rankin, who is now a prominent member of the National Party, and if someone can enlighten us as to where she is on its list, we will be all ears.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b6fe5ef11e41b18cfb016c4495025f\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think that the report produced today by the Families Commission, which is to spend around $500,000 on telling people that they should value parents, is of good value, necessary, and worthwhile, when Dr Prasad stated: \u201CSuch messages might be self-evident, but they are still worth repeating.\u201D; and would the Prime Minister like to tell New Zealand families who are struggling to make ends meet that it is far more important that things like that report are produced than that they have an opportunity to make their mortgage payments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225731293a61b4409bb5d385b786f727ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps the Leader of the Opposition is the only member in the House who does not think that good parenting is important. Better parenting might save us all a lot of money on the criminal justice system down the track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228f6ef8fe23e4f3eba76841f89792eb0\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that in the quarterly employment survey the number of core bureaucrats has risen from 26,200 to 36,000, which is an average of about 3,300 per parliamentary term under Labour, and will she tell the House whether that number will increase; can she confirm that under a National Government, where there will not be an increase in core bureaucrats, the savings will be over half a billion dollars, and what does she think New Zealanders would prefer: more money to be spent on front-line services and tax cuts, or more money to be spent on core bureaucrats?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222661b63ceb574e2e93645e3c9e87416e\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Of course I cannot confirm any of the member\u2019s figures. I can say that of the total growth in Public Service numbers, 15 percent occurred in policy departments and 85 percent was in the front-line departments and agencies. I can say, furthermore, that the slippery figures I have read about in a certain speech today do not own up to the fact that the Ministry of Education, for example, grew because the whole of the Special Education Service was brought into it, and that the Ministry of Health grew because National\u2019s wasteful health bureaucracy, the Health Funding Authority, was done away with. Further, and finally, I can confirm that yes, the numbers in Statistics New Zealand were greater in 2006 than in 2000, because it was a census year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3ba4fa33e7944d082e83904c03f49e3\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: If the Prime Minister values the Public Service so much, why did she blame Treasury for not letting her Cabinet and caucus know there was room for tax cuts, when her own Minister of Finance got exactly that advice in an incoming briefing, described it as ideological burp, and did not want a bar of it; is it not a situation where, under a Labour Government, if one works for the core bureaucracy, \u201CYou\u2019re damned if you do, and you\u2019re damned if you don\u2019t.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e633f39cec2c4d85b27cd8e88f3997b0\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: My recollection is that Treasury said tax cuts could be afforded if we were prepared to cut expenditure in other places. That is the National Party\u2019s policy, not ours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220260212f97a24536b8f99c6f2a6f4cdb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: On the question of the acquisition of ideas, does the Government intend to adopt the latest stance of the National Party on KiwiSaver\u2014namely, to abolish it, despite this country\u2019s serious personal debt problem, a move that every journalist is saying National has just announced today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8a4376fb53743d9a545ca2da7c174be\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is inappropriate that Mr Peters raises spurious and, frankly, wildly inaccurate assertions in a question, and it is particularly inappropriate to do so in this question, where there is no resemblance between his question and the primary question asked by Mr Key or the questions subsequently answered by the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b45637c58284eb8add3897a9de91b78\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: The second line of the primary question reads: \u201Cgot many of its ideas from\u201D. That puts into question where the Government acquired its ideas\u2014[Interruption] I know it would not have acquired them from Mr Carter. He is bereft of any ideas. In fact, he is a standing joke where he comes from. But my point refers to the line \u201Cgot many of its ideas from\u201D. That is where the issue was put into question, and it is no use being embarrassed by the consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e085f5916c2a40fdad0207d2b39b0677\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The primary question was very broad, and therefore it is likely to attract supplementary questions that are broad. I ask the Prime Minister to address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7502118e444449ca1487fc9934410c6\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I take you to Standing Order 371(1)(b) and ask you for your ruling on that in relation to Mr Peters\u2019 question, which makes inference, offers imputation, and is, to say the very least, an ironical expression.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2543f1087014965b0d73deefb377490\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That would probably rule out most of the supplementary questions. I ask Mr Peters to perhaps\u2014as some of us may have forgotten what his original question was\u2014rephrase his question in a manner that is consistent with the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7d3ee8ba46d497b9c4990d4c90ffff5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I would be delighted to do so. On the issue of where\u2014and I quote the primary question\u2014\u201Cher Government got many of its ideas from\u201D, does the Government intend to abolish the KiwiSaver scheme, a move that today every journalist is telling me is the National Party\u2019s latest pronouncement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226143968b7fa14cb7b5259f4341578f1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: With the uptake of KiwiSaver fast approaching half a million New Zealanders, the Labour-led Government will be backing KiwiSaver all the way, not trying to scuttle it, undermine it, and eliminate it as the National Party would do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243242e91d8d44d25807ba28011e7c254\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is it still her Government\u2019s No. 1 priority that the fastest-growing part of the economy should be Government administration; if so, how does she reconcile that with the facts that New Zealand families today are paying very high prices at the petrol pump, have not had a tax cut for 8 or 9 years, are struggling to make ends meet, and are struggling to get by in life\u2014do they not deserve a bit of a break after 9 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e458b07b7bf4657ae2ea1012fdd7dbe\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: In case the Leader of the Opposition has not noticed this, I tell him 70 percent of Kiwi families have had substantial tax relief under Working for Families. The Government\u2019s highest priority is to grow the economy and to give a charge to the huge food and pastoral sector, which generates more than half our export earnings. The Leader of the Opposition now says he totally opposes the fund we announced yesterday and he would disband it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293f17092cec645cc9479b87a17d68bf1\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of the uptake of ideas, does the Prime Minister believe that a Government should accept good ideas wherever they come from if they are good, and that is why this Government supported ACT\u2019s anti - red tape bill, the Regulatory Responsibility Bill, at least as far as its referral to the Commerce Committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d22085bc65364e58b747b9ec3521a072\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: For once, I agree with the member. If there are good ideas, we should not be embarrassed about taking them up. Good ideas are not something the Government says it has a monopoly on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b140da088fa64fb1b3b1b2db09581b02\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from the New Zealand Herald\u2019s journalists chapel to APN\u2019s chief executive officer, Martin Simons, complaining about political interference by the ownership in the New Zealand Herald\u2019s reporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0a930a5e2bd45369b170413d2a36cb5\u0022\u003EFast Forward Programme\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022 data-id=\u00225746b48c8e354160890ce10e4d622590\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225746b48c8e354160890ce10e4d622590\u0022\u003EDr ASHRAF CHOUDHARY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: What reports has he received on reaction to the Government\u2019s Fast Forward programme announced yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022f29067e2e27e4c3fa9790be2e4a3f53b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f29067e2e27e4c3fa9790be2e4a3f53b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture: Business New Zealand said \u201CThe Government and partnership industries involved are to be congratulated for this bold move.\u201D DairyNZ\u2019s chairman, former National MP John Luxton, said it represented a significant commitment to maintaining the profitability, competitiveness, and sustainability of New Zealand\u2019s pastoral and food industries. The investment has also been welcomed by Zespri, Fonterra, the Meat Industry Association, Meat and Wool New Zealand, PGG Wrightson, Horticulture New Zealand, and Crop and Food Research, amongst others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280a3c5c299984200b1cd1d9436d4c55a\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: What calls has the Minister seen for further investment in agriculture research and development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249d345a7843d4597bdc0386bd103dd0f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a report concerning a National Party policy paper that called to \u201Cboost research and development, especially in agriculture.\u201D I have also seen a call to scrap the Fast Forward fund, which came from the leader of the National Party, Mr John Key. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ac0300d3ab40dd90e9815a7c202414\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that AgResearch is New Zealand\u2019s largest agricultural research centre and that it received more money under National in 1999 than it currently receives under Labour in 2007-08, and is this not just another case of rhetoric around this issue because it is driven by desperation around the polls?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c47eed13084718a9dd4062d0e64ea8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You would have heard a complaint by a National Party member on that side with regard to the phrasing of questions. The money that was given to AgResearch in 1999 was in the 1998 Budget. It was not a National Party measure, but a New Zealand First measure. I ask the member to get his facts right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a1ce9d61a4943f39df4447639e24560\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was a point of information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a155401fc804427a65d7e9c34109354\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that for many years Governments have tended to switch the priorities in research and development funding out of the agriculture area. What is now clear is that we need a vast boost in funding into agriculture research, not least for sustainability reasons given the pressures that agriculture faces. How can National Party members get up and say that this is a bad thing and then call for increased funding for agriculture research and development? How can National members get up and say that we should have public-private partnerships and then oppose the biggest public-private partnership in research ever announced in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f80fd96bb2aa4738bcc621fb3a7277d3\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any further reports in support or in opposition to further investment in agricultural research and development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257af7f27031a44529f3e0c964e7f908f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen continued reports of growing support for these moves. I have also seen various reports that the Leader of the Opposition is now avoiding answering questions on this issue, and refusing to admit the obvious\u2014that he got it wrong. Capital will be used, as well as interest; the so-called great financial trader cannot work out the difference between capital and interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226baea8ac1e9046f694abb0a1cbd5b3ba\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister thought of suggesting to the Minister of Forestry\u2014in fact, himself wearing a different cap\u2014that thought be given to the creation of a research fund, based on the Fast Forward model, for the forestry sector, given the fact that we continue to export thousands of tonnes of unprocessed logs and in spite of talking for more than 20 years now about the importance of processing in this country, and thereby moving those exports up the value-added chain?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c82c088d7f4b1c97cbf35b2a71f7cf\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is not under survey at the present time, but it is true to say that part of the reason we export so many of our logs in an unprocessed form is that we face very high tariff barriers for processed wood products in a number of key markets. It is therefore crucial to negotiate trade deals that will deal with that kind of issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f7c28de35a94f7c848eebb60577015c\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any reports about funding more research by selling State assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022790d127385c34380ab198826299748d6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed. The Opposition, I understand, announced that it would fund increased investment in research and development in agriculture by simply selling off Landcorp. Of course, again, that is interesting, because in selling off a State asset the only thing that makes sense is to devote that result to paying off debt\u2014as I am sure Mr English appreciates, and as he himself has said on a number of occasions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c919a13471e146789777867684a2a5c7\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: How many Landcorp farms have been sold under Labour in the last 9 long years; and why is it OK for Labour to sell such Landcorp farms and not OK for National to do so?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5c660c20d8741e7a3e83914e06a7e35\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The problem for the member is that National at one point was saying that it would sell Landcorp. What Landcorp has been doing is selling and buying\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b391a33d76342ff8940234f62256535\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please repeat his answer. It is impossible to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b57d717366a145d3886c1ddce3bde483\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Landcorp has been selling and buying in order to consolidate its resources in the land area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233e9f39903ab4c06a29cf8670e0295ea\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I quite specifically asked the Minister how many Landcorp farms had been sold under Labour, over the last 9 long years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f9b128b831f4a9895a616621d7c572f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It may seem like 9 long years to the member; it is actually less than 8\u00BD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aa386c4322243a1b730988b6cd9132b\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022368518743a9642d6ab535f769da48a10\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Minister, I thought, originally addressed the question. I asked him to further elucidate. He did so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e361a7f103704c668997f24502daeeba\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article from New Zealand Farmers\u2019 Weekly, dated 10 March, which quotes Mr Carter, when Minister of Agriculture stating: \u201CI would sell Landcorp \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229917048dc4bf4975810d4d57a6f759e1\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. For the sake of clarity, I just point out that I rang Mr Alan Emerson, the author of that article. That is not a direct quote of mine, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb78b1edfc0b440db67ed16ce388ddba\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as members know, that is not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ada3713d4d948279ae0d5c5ff9eef79\u0022\u003EHawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board\u2014Conflicts of Interest Report\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc0b8647c96640a68826ad9165e11934\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc0b8647c96640a68826ad9165e11934\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Will he undertake to ensure the release of version 1 of the director-general\u2019s report into conflict of interest allegations at the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022820d4074f45540b0a7516daafa15d4f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022820d4074f45540b0a7516daafa15d4f7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E No, I cannot give the member that assurance; the release of any draft copies of the report is entirely a matter for the director-general and the review panel, acting on advice from Crown Law. The member is clearly attempting to discredit a time-honoured natural justice process. There is no version 1 of the report. There are draft copies of the report, as are required of any such inquiry process. I repeat for the record: I have neither seen the draft copies, nor been briefed on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264951587c7cd4045b32be1f5e053c3e9\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister understand that unless he can give an assurance that this information will be released, it will be in the public interest for this information to be made available so that the public can draw its own conclusions from this sorry mess of an inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022490998423f3246cb8e925f7bb375a6b1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: It is very difficult to understand how the member could leap to judgment about an inquiry, the results of which he says he has not seen and he cannot legally have access to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e75094790b146fb84c08cf88c7a4dd4\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of claims that a draft copy of the report \u201Clargely exonerates the board\u201D, as the member claimed yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220c96ba8828c439aaf643f7afeddb0c6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014by the member Mr Ryall. But, of course, that begs the question of how he would know and why he will not repeat the claims outside the House. It is very clear to me that the member opposite is trying to undermine and discredit an independent review process, and he is also undermining the integrity of the neutral public servants who are responsible for that process. I repeat that there is nothing unusual or secretive about a review process such as the one being followed. For example, I draw the member\u2019s attention to the report of the Ombudsman Mel Smith, into aerial spraying in west Auckland, which followed exactly the same process of circulating an initial draft for correction of any factual errors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fda9271bec1048c5afd217462330d81f\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister say to the allegations that the director-general\u2019s review is one big cover-up, and that the draft copy of the report is being suppressed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dd2ce6ad26440949358571e5056abb2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat categorically that there is no cover-up. Those allegations impugn the integrity of the public servants conducting the review. This is an independent report to the Director-General of Health by an independent panel, and I draw the attention of the member opposite to the statement made in 2001 by Chief Ombudsman Sir Brian Elwood. In commenting on draft reports such as this one, he said: \u201Cit must be remembered that decision-makers are accountable for the advice they act upon and not for early drafts generated \u2026\u201D, which they have not seen. He went on to say: \u201CHowever, if the end result of disclosure of drafts is to prejudice the quality of the reports \u2026 then the wider public interests of effective government administration would not be served.\u201D Mr Ryall should reflect on Sir Brian\u2019s words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022067877a39dd84f168142ca239f5d9391\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister consider it an independent inquiry when the Director-General of Health investigated these matters in 2006 and concluded that there was nothing remarkable in Mr Hausmann\u2019s behaviour; and given that the director-general would look a complete idiot if the facts in version 1 were set out publicly, can the Minister see why the director-general is himself so keen to suppress this version?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243d874ae80a141baa56759668c9a152c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I have confidence in the director-general, and I have confidence in the independence of this review process. The member might care to take notice of the comments of his colleagues who have been banging on at the Labour Government for the last few months about preserving the neutrality of the public service\u2014something that the member is doing his best to undermine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248917e27d7994d3295e7863a80f4c6c6\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How can it be an independent inquiry when this is the same director-general whose ministry, according to Annette King, said it was OK to appoint Mr Hausmann when he was already working on a $50 million deal with the very district health board he was being appointed to; and can the Minister see why the Ministry of Health is using a suppression order to prevent the release of information that will further demonstrate that his ministry was stupid or incompetent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227959ea6e3de04e3d82006682cb43acae\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I draw the member\u2019s attention to the following brief quotes: \u201CPublic service neutrality must be fiercely guarded.\u201D That was said by Gerry Brownlee. John Key said: \u201CDemocracy can only suffer when appointments are made for political reasons rather than the person\u2019s ability to do a good job.\u201D What a shame it is that the National Party does not apply the same standards to junior journalists or to a director-general\u2019s independent review panel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022643f23dd38ad4d71970216a19a9a3550\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why on earth did Annette King appoint Mr Hausmann to the board when there was clearly a massive conflict of interest that should have alerted Mrs King, the director-general, and everyone else that this was a bad idea?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296aaf192d84c438d82e5e2fe36dd01b3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot have it both ways. He is freely admitting that any potential conflicts were disclosed, that mechanisms were put in place to deal with them, that the appropriate independent advice confirmed that that was satisfactory, and that Minister King has publicly released to the National Party and the news media all the relevant Cabinet documents. How much more transparent can one get? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b119a3447ca74568b4d69a0ddc781cef\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How can it be an independent inquiry when at the core of the inquiry is the appointment of Mr Hausmann to the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board on the recommendation of Annette King and the Ministry of Health, which is apparently leading this inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ac4aa8519054a4998c4f698c1b3d23b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said before in the House, the member seems to be labouring under the impression that I carry some kind of torch for Mr Hausmann, which I do not. My decision around the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board was that there was a board squabbling amongst itself and with its own management team\u2014a situation of chaos that could not continue. But I will judge the members of the board without fear or favour, on the basis of the evidence that is produced by an independent process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d04fdb2af3c4eb983b8f42611fe2b5b\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister expect the review panel report to comment on the role of management and the chief executive in the conflict of interest issues at the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board; if not, was it not management conduct, which allowed Peter Hausmann to get away with what he did, that was the very reason for the review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262a069e023c44fa6b7481d0f9ec44697\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Although the draft review and the final review are, I am told, a matter of governance, the relationship between a board and its senior management team is no doubt relevant. The member sorely, sorely tempts me to disclose some of the many pieces of information that the good people of Hawke\u2019s Bay have sent to me since I made my decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f1ab60ff39d4f0b9c80e21201d4e20d\u0022\u003EFree-trade Agreement\u2014New Zealand - China\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022aea13c91e5a94e7c864d60a35b62d23e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aea13c91e5a94e7c864d60a35b62d23e\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Trade: How can he give an assurance that the proposed free-trade deal between New Zealand and China will not \u201Cprovide a threat to the wages and conditions of New Zealand workers\u201D when wage rates in China are so much lower than they are here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00226f525ee9d1444e36bb0461668622f65b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f525ee9d1444e36bb0461668622f65b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand jobs and living standards depend on the exports of our goods and services. By removing impediments to our exports, which the proposed China free-trade agreement will do quite dramatically, we increase the volume and value of those exports. That will clearly be good for growth and employment, and it will be good for wages. That is a benefit, not a threat to New Zealand workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022512bf92475824b0c83f041dbfaede5ef\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Why are we giving preferential treatment to a country that abuses the rights of its citizens, lacks basic environmental standards, and has children working in sweatshops for a few cents an hour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf52fe9b7a0a42108adf381a6d1edc24\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: If I look at the member\u2019s first question, the clear implication is that we should not be trading with countries where the wage rates of workers are lower than ours. That would eliminate our taking of exports from any developing country. I understood that the Green position was to try to close the gap between the developed and the developing world. If we were not to trade with those countries where wages are lower, and lock them out of the markets of the affluent countries, that relegates those developing countries to being poor forever and unable ever to develop. That does not make sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221311ccc6734447db1717f6e040e913f\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question was not about all trade agreements and whether anyone is for or against trade agreements as such; it was about a free-trade agreement with China eliminating tariffs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8ed05570afc42759851cfb1944cebbb\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The question, as set down in the Order Paper, clearly talks about why will it be good for us, when wage rates in China are so much lower than they are here. The implication of that is clearly that we are endangering our country if we ever trade with countries that have wage rates lower than our own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235032ad6cd9c49678549757a8014f29a\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I will just ask for your assistance, Madam Speaker, because it seems to me that the implication of what the Minister just said is that he can continue to answer the first question put to him when other questions are asked. So we ask a supplementary question and he just re-answers the first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262f629f7fc9042fcb027c23eb5e463cd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly the supplementary question was a continuation of the theme in the first. I addressed that theme, and I am happy to answer any further questions from the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c99e1c2edd0e480fb7cc5b1ce01cb9ce\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was consistent. The supplementary questions have to relate\u2014or should relate\u2014to the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dafbcd091db7464fabe79f7df2867e3f\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. Has the Minister seen comments by the New Zealand Chinese Association president, who says there will be little benefit for China in a free-trade arrangement with New Zealand, which would remove any remaining tariffs on Chinese clothing and footwear coming here; and, given the history of M\u0101ori workers suffering severe impacts from the removal of tariff protections in the 1980s and 1990s in textiles, clothing, footwear, car assembly, meatworks, forestry, and railways, can he tell the House exactly which sector of M\u0101oridom in this country will benefit from a free-trade deal with China?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229966313100ba40deb938714aef81170c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: If I can just pick up a couple of examples from the member. He mentions forestry, fisheries, and farming. There are a great many M\u0101ori business interests and workers in those areas. Those are exactly the areas that will be the key beneficiaries of a free-trade agreement with China. As the member himself pointed out in quoting the president of the New Zealand Chinese Association, at the moment 95 percent of the goods coming into New Zealand, by value, come in duty-free. That is not the case with our exports to China, where most of our major exports are covered by tariffs of between 10 percent and 20 percent. There will be huge benefit to New Zealand industries by the removal of those tariffs, and a prime beneficiary will in fact be M\u0101ori businesses and M\u0101ori workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b2effe79e9f4a42a1e732f480f469e8\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Is it part of the Government\u2019s climate change strategy to encourage New Zealand manufacturers to outsource their manufacturing, and its jobs, to China, where products will be made with inefficient and dirty coal-fired power stations rather than with New Zealand\u2019s mainly renewable electricity; if so, how will that help reduce global emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d09f6014b9545eab0db2f39e8589e08\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to the problem of greenhouse gas warming of the world has to be a multilateral answer. That is why we have the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change and why all countries, including big developing countries like China, have to play their part in that. The solution to that problem is through that mechanism, not by putting up artificial impediments to trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d22e3e4e9d2847eeab208099c207ebaf\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister, given the inevitable increase in food that will come in from China as a result of this so-called free-trade agreement with China, ensure that New Zealand consumers can avoid buying Chinese food if they so wish and support local growers instead by introducing mandatory country of origin labelling of fresh food, as supported by 37,000 New Zealanders in a petition to this House; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ea9433cae28428a89d4f7bb12f7261f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: To correct the member, I point out that actually the big flow of trade in food that will occur after this free-trade agreement is likely to be in the opposite direction\u2014from New Zealand to China, not from China to New Zealand. In regard to food standards, a free-trade agreement makes no difference at all to the stringent requirements that are placed on the importation of food into New Zealand. Whether we have a free-trade agreement or not, those standards are in place and those standards will be upheld. In regard to mandatory labelling, if that were to be brought in universally the key loser in that would be New Zealand. For example, mandatory labelling in the United States of our beef, when mixed with products from within the United States, would hugely increase the cost to our industry, lowering the value of those exports to New Zealand, and therefore impacting negatively on jobs and incomes, which Keith Locke said before he was concerned about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f9fe89e4118441aa1c45c0e6aeae867\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his commendable statement in the House last Thursday that this Parliament will get to vote on the free-trade agreement as a whole, or is he reverting to earlier statements that Parliament\u2019s involvement will be narrower and cover only implementing legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c5dcb0ce8544c9c8ab20ead79eb0979\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The member is well aware of the procedures that occur in this House. There will be tabled in this House, at the time of signing, the free-trade agreement and the national interest analysis. That will go to the Foreign Affairs, Trade and Defence Committee. That committee will then hold hearings on submissions, and look at what the implications of that agreement will be, but, of course, before any free-trade agreement comes into effect there has to be enabling legislation for the tariff changes. That will be under the umbrella of a New Zealand - China free-trade agreement bill, and unless, and until, that bill is passed by the House, the free-trade agreement cannot come into effect. So what Mrs King said on my behalf last week is exactly right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f16a3726209f49b9ac45da2dfd8db331\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a US National Labor Committee document about children getting 55c an hour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f25232fc95124026abd3ec266c798e9c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002226783c29583147e79b6d554ba93673d1\u0022\u003EHawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board\u2014Conflicts of Interest\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe1754f464c64819b834a694e93777b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe1754f464c64819b834a694e93777b0\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Why did the Director-General of Health join Peter Hausmann\u2019s Healthcare New Zealand in seeking to renew a suppression order relating to the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022296d59d985504838aee0ab3f12da5fa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022296d59d985504838aee0ab3f12da5fa7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E That is a matter for the director-general, and it would be as improper for me as Minister as it would be for the member opposite to politicise a senior independent public servant in this way. However, I am advised there are two separate proceedings seeking an injunction. I repeat that the review process being followed by the director-general, assisted by the Crown Law Office, is a proper process in the interests of natural justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022583e925e2e9e4023b9ed13d0fa5ca836\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister understand that the High Court has made it clear that the order of suppression does not apply to fair and accurate reporting of statements made in the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221913eb826f014c7996051397fb0e9b21\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The High Court\u2019s judgment is a matter of record, and the member should try reading it, for a change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298c1c42f28504781881d68dbbf5a27cb\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister realise that if I quote from material from version one of the report, then that will not be a breach of any suppression order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da1d66c6f99c4fd299d7eeced546824e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s relationship with the judicial process is one for the member, and not one for which I am responsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022934ec4c6af4f4fddb4cbda2235f3c634\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government agree to one of its political appointees, someone who is beholden to the Minister for his job, investigating this matter, rather than involving the independent Auditor-General, especially given that the allegations involve conflicts of interest and various political links\u2014a Labour Party appointee, associates of the previous health Minister, and the chief executive of the health board, who used to work for the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d57d28ebe9b342c8a95ab2e234c1f2ee\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm to the House that I did not appoint any member of the independent review panel. The members were independently appointed by the director-general, acting in his capacity as a senior and neutral public servant. I have not even been told by the director-general what is in the draft, so I am at some disadvantage compared with the member, who seems to have obtained some kind of leak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229522ad43afef4696a105c04125ed7c71\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister see the parallels with the \u201Clying in unison\u201D inquiry, whereby an inquiry by the Department of Labour found nothing wrong but an independent inquiry discovered the full sorry mess, for which people were held accountable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273b1f1ffe6b244df886c4e668ed2d083\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: No, and if the member is going to so desperately clutch at straws, he should make sure they are not crooked before he clutches them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223593954c86bc4c688902dbbc8fd7fdf3\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister see the parallels with the Ingram inquiry, where for weeks on end he defended a report that was found to be completely inadequate despite his repeated assurances, and can he confirm that as a result of that independent investigation Mr Field now faces legal charges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e2578dcfe8445849ab92335a9490e10\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I am no more responsible for Mr Field than I am for Mr Hausmann. I well recall answering a number of futile, confused questions from the Opposition that wasted precious House time and got the Opposition nowhere. I must say there is a slight sense of d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b74311bd8b8a40c88fa55afd8c97eb7b\u0022\u003ECapital and Coast District Health Board\u2014Kenepuru Hospital Emergency Services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a07c9e55881640c1a97b1bef29f6d517\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a07c9e55881640c1a97b1bef29f6d517\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b36a92cd1f3f4de2acd3c4f647cc01b8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is the duty of a party leader to control his or her troops. The National Party cannot go on with 12 or 13 people every day shouting out when they feel like it. Nobody in this Parliament\u2014least of all me\u2014objects to the rare humorous interjection, in particular, but this constant barrage is not what this Parliament is used to. Mr Key has a duty to bring them into line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ae4ff5cf98f4bde902eba0dbf2df7a7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The chipping across the Chamber when Barbara Stewart was trying to ask her question was unacceptable. If the member had not got to his feet, I was about to. We will now hear Barbara Stewart\u2019s question in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9a560bbc348457cbdb2deba0ef1adb1\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: Does he support the decision by the Capital and Coast District Health Board to terminate Kenepuru Hospital\u2019s 24-hour emergency coverage; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2716a13d29a4dba950cfd15c5b829d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2716a13d29a4dba950cfd15c5b829d2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E No, I do not. I am advised by the board, however, that it did not decide to terminate emergency coverage; it reduced the hours as a response to a short-term staff shortage, in order to guarantee patient safety. I have received a number of representations from local members\u2014in particular, the member for Mana, the Hon Luamanuvao Winnie Laban. I have reflected those concerns to the district health board. I have been advised that the district health board is urgently investigating options to reopen the 24-hour service on a permanent basis. I look forward to urgent progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022569145ea332f4731ac3f65521e850669\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the new regional hospital is likely to be too small to cope with future demand, even before its completion; if so, will consideration be given to further developing Kenepuru Hospital; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4ab5862e1e4457f8262dc7d5ccc25ba\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that with the excellent progress that has resulted from the Government\u2019s primary and preventive health care strategy, the hospital on the Newtown site will be adequate when completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225315f8c646624c86baa5ef0b4b9fc037\u0022\u003ELouisa Wall\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Is there any provision for people who attend Kenepuru Hospital at night for emergency services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238fa14a6a3f94df9ad973c2f4ca1069a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I should make it clear that all people presenting to the department between the hours of 11 p.m. and 8 a.m. are assessed by the duty manager, who is a registered nurse, and, if appropriate, a paramedic. If any person needs emergency attention, he or she will be immediately taken to Wellington Hospital. To date, the services of the paramedic have not been needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d0b19bf14f54f31b5ce29e8ed3d62fc\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that project plans for the Capital and Coast District Health Board\u2019s medical services have always included \u201Crefurbishing, increasing and maximising use\u201D of Kenepuru Hospital; will the Government be providing additional funding for that; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228eb26a629fb4d679a6654eaa6525b0c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The allocation of the district health board\u2019s resources is a matter for the board to decide. It is certainly my view that the Kenepuru site will continue to play an important role in the network run by the Capital and Coast District Health Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293dfbfa85b3442a9993287382258845c\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Will any funds raised by the sale of excess land at the Kenepuru site be used specifically for the redevelopment of Kenepuru Hospital; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219db7318bcb54c39b002952cbb00c9f1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: There are certain protocols around the use of the proceeds of capital sales, which the Capital and Coast District Health Board is cognisant of\u2014rather more, I might add, than it appears the Hawke\u2019s Bay board was in its similar case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0ce6b14e8d74be29cd051d1573d2423\u0022\u003EFinance, Government\u2014Actual and Forecast Costs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00227b5f9b27222d420496cc74d45e427990\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b5f9b27222d420496cc74d45e427990\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What are the forecast finance costs for the Government in 2008, and what were the actual finance costs in 2007?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002209c94890f7a34e2f90e842624909e63b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209c94890f7a34e2f90e842624909e63b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Economic and fiscal forecasts, including finance costs, are based on financial years, not calendar years. Therefore, there are no actual figures for 2007 or forecast figures for 2008. But to assist the member and the House, I shall give figures that are at a point in time: the gross sovereign issue debt at 30 June 2007 was $30.9 billion, and it is forecast to be $33.3 billion at 30 June 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc50b2846e44cf7b00c72d5e89c12c2\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the cost of servicing the Government\u2019s debt will be about half a billion dollars more for the fiscal year 2008 than it was for 2007, and does not this confirm the facts elucidated yesterday that the Government is borrowing more money when he is giving speeches saying that borrowing is a very bad idea?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229206b2a148804564914f5cdb274374e7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes and no. I shall explain the \u201Cno\u201D for the member\u2014but I am sure he could find it out if he looked a bit harder. The Government for some years has been following a very consistent and constant bond issuance programme of about $2.5 billion per year. The reason for that is to smooth it over the forecast period in order to avoid market disruption, and to avoid variable maturation dates, and so to achieve, actually, reduced long-term borrowing costs by a constant programme. But, of course, the repayments reflecting past borrowings come in lumps. In the current year there is practically no bond repayment, and therefore the gross sovereign issue debt rises. On the other hand, the Government has more cash on hand, so the net position is not affected. So gross finance costs rise, but on the other hand the Government\u2019s finance income also increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228da2f544d6744631b83ba92029735afb\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does not that simply underline the fact that the Government is borrowing $2.7 billion this year, and it is spending an extra half a billion dollars of taxpayers\u2019 money on servicing that debt; why does he not put that in his speeches, instead of carrying on as if he has never borrowed a cent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227854a25fc61545a681a0b81c85715b1c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have just explained to the member that the Government, in order to actually reduce its long-term borrowing costs, has a constant borrowing programme. Repayments are variable. On the current forecast, for example, in a couple of years\u2019 time the outstanding gross sovereign issue debt will be significantly lower than it is forecast to be at 30 June this year. The money we hold in cash is not actually being kept underneath the mattress where it is not earning any interest; it is actually earning interest at the same time. It is put into the short-term money market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e68982d04afd46309f2c532fc1235d72\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Government is borrowing $2.7 billion this financial year, what is it borrowing it for: its proposed tax cuts, its spending increases, infrastructure spending, or investing on the money market\u2014which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220656f9e9404845beb1bdef725d81e3bd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am tempted to say it is so that we can build a brick wall that that member can keep hitting his head against. I have just explained that we are borrowing a constant amount each year, because that reduces our long-term debt-servicing costs. We are borrowing because we have, apart from anything else, debt repayments to make from time to time, and, secondly, it has never been the Government\u2019s policy to fund all expenditure, in terms of investment, out of current income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209ef4d743a2d45d4987463950760319c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: A new announcement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200f7c655c0814f7caf940835d499e6f6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a new announcement. If the member looks at every Budget I have presented, he will see that, over the forecast period, we have projected going into cash deficits. There is nothing new. It is just that he has never bothered reading the Budget documentation before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276431eed238042058e1875a8c7b84aca\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If we are borrowing to roll over debt\u2014adduced debt at that\u2014over a period of years, then are we, in fact, increasing our borrowings or reducing them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228300659f9ee3436ab0c300706d275535\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Reducing them. Indeed, we have reduced the Government\u2019s gross debt from over 30 percent of GDP to under 19 percent of GDP at the present time. We have moved into a net asset positive position for the first time in New Zealand\u2019s history. Had we put out $11.5 billion of tax cuts, as Mr Key called for less than 18 months ago, Mr English would be asking how come the Government\u2019s borrowing position had gone up by $15 billion during the current year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a447301d54b441f0b7fc97623446baf8\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Minister could not answer the question about what he is borrowing for, why does he not read page 40 of his half-year update, where Treasury states that he is \u201Cincreasing borrowings to meet the cash shortfall\u201D; and does that cash shortfall arise from promising too much spending, from infrastructure spending, or from trying to store up cash for his tax cuts next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3e72ecc65fa412b8d0f0a0a197221a5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to read page 40 again. It applies over the 4-year period. Every 4-year forecast has shown movement into cash deficit and, therefore, borrowing. The Government, I repeat, has never argued that we should in a normal year cover all expenditure, including capital investment, out of current income. What National has argued is that we should be borrowing for the Superannuation Fund and borrowing for tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c848a40eba3445b69a80d634b0e39884\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister say in his speech that any reference to borrowing is always associated with tax cuts when someone else says it, but when he talks about borrowing it is, apparently, normal management of the Government\u2019s books?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263a3841a3f9a420eb9801e14f7da26e5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Because although the member thinks he is very clever, right next to him sits the man\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226419718eb052436c85a9d9a81e2579cb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is impossible to hear. Members say \u201CAnswer the question.\u201D We will hear the answer in silence so that we can all hear the answer. [Interruption] The member will leave the Chamber if he interrupts when the question is being answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d590dbd27a1447239ef51a7cf545063a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Because Mr Key has argued that gross debt should be lifted to 25 percent of GDP, with an increase long term of borrowing costs of $700 million a year\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and he has yet to mention any major item of spending, other than tax cuts, to explain the need for an increase in borrowing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a0abf72f06b4f8a8d43187dfd113882\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Mr English, but you heard me explicitly say that courtesy would be shown\u2014that the answer would be heard in silence so that all could hear it. You deliberately interrupted when the Minister was speaking. I am very sorry to say it, but I gave my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d643d553fd27466d8bcaf120e4e28926\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Mr English was responding to material that Dr Cullen was putting to Parliament under the veil of absolute silence, and with apparently no contest, that was totally wrong. You cannot expect us to sit here quietly in any circumstances and allow the Minister of Finance, the Deputy Prime Minister, free range to say something completely false about us and a position taken by members on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef14cf798b86408eba4c495826e504c6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am sorry, Mr Brownlee. I very rarely ask members to hear questions and/or answers in silence. That comes only after a period when it has been very difficult for members to hear. All members in the Chamber are entitled to hear the answers and the questions. I made that ruling because it was impossible to hear the particular answer, because of the shouting that was taking place. Members are entitled to hear that answer. If they do not agree with it, there are other supplementary questions\u2014there are other ways to make the interventions. My ruling was done in that context, and therefore I stand by it as a warning to members that all members are entitled to hear questions and answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022762f1d16f6c542928c43b195fa508920\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I accept your ruling and I will leave the Chamber, but I just want to say that I think we are getting into a bit of difficulty here with the arbitrary selection of particular exchanges that have to be heard in silence. It was the method in this House under previous Speakers that questions were asked in silence, and answers were subject to reasonable interjection. That has now changed to the situation where barracking is allowed during questions. Every time I ask a question I get consistent barracking from a noisy group of members opposite. Madam Speaker, you have this practice now of intervening in particular exchanges. There was no particular tension to the exchange between me and Dr Cullen. Other exchanges today have been so noisy that members could not hear the answer. My suggestion would be that we revert to a predictable and simple rule such as the one we used to have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b0f307963ec4335b4bcf4cdd558e9bd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, the problem with that suggestion, Madam Speaker, is that you have\u2014quite rightly, in my view\u2014reverted to the former rulings, which obtained for many, many years in this House. The difficulty was, of course, that it was a one-sided exchange. The members opposite got to ask their questions in complete silence, then Ministers were greeted by a barrage of noise the moment they rose to their feet. That is not exactly fighting on a level playing field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cb5ae830f254ecfb283a4796dd1514e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that was actually the difficulty with that rule. The other thing is that members on the front benches face each. I also look at the members at the back who are about to leap to their feet to say they cannot hear what is being said. As Speaker, I have to take account of the interests of all members in the House, not only those who sit on the two front benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EHon Bill English withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f82a442abde849798113a011b2ef79bc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Mr Key\u2019s statement that National supports \u201Ca notional debt of GDP to around about 25 percent, so that\u2019s gross debt.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7f98d519ea24a77ab7b90de91a8754b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The deputy leader of the National Party has, obviously, accepted your ruling and has left the House. I note, though, that immediately following question time we have the Budget Policy Statement. Mr English is also our finance spokesperson. It would be appreciated if you could consider allowing his reintroduction to the House in time to participate in that debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022239da8aa00654f9eb4af4d6cfc30e4df\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The normal practice is that if members who have been asked to withdraw from the Chamber accept the ruling of the Chair, they come back at the end of question time. Certainly, Mr English can return at that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002286be5fa1154242afb1da3cc334fd8ff7\u0022\u003EEducation, Ministry\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5923d30f35741278b2b0870d1fde87e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5923d30f35741278b2b0870d1fde87e\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY (National\u2014East Coast)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he have confidence in the Ministry of Education; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u002292eb726d577641c5a4e6bd39f85d9361\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292eb726d577641c5a4e6bd39f85d9361\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, but I am sure the Ministry of Education, like all of us, can always do better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e692450cbd224c668b4d07eaaec5be30\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the ministry\u2019s non-attendance prosecution trial, launched in 2004, see just four prosecutions last year and only 24 in total over the last 4 years, when it released truancy figures last year showing that under a Labour Government truancy had increased by 20 percent since the beginning of that trial, which sees 31,000 truants absent in any one week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247ddc6a9c8194e2fa475b63f98a4babd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Once again, the House is presented with some statements by the member that, under scrutiny, do not bear up to the facts. The fact is that boards of trustees choose to prosecute parents, and there have been approximately 24 cases where parents have been prosecuted on the decisions of boards of trustees. As for the truancy figures the member quotes, they have been disputed and addressed in this House on a number of occasions by me. She has simply made the figure up. In fact, we cannot possibly know how many students were truanting, because it was not until this year that we established an electronic enrolment scheme that would finally tell us, for the first time ever, how many students were missing from New Zealand schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d0e5c9b810b4010adc4ae5316b49b2a\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Labour-led Government, through the Ministry of Education, delivered for all New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022750d9fd9358c40638025a6127090aabd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour-led Government has increased funding for education by a whopping 72 percent since it has been in Government. This huge additional investment has enabled us, since 1999, to introduce 20 free hours of early childhood education for all 3 and 4-year-olds and increase teachers\u2019 pay by 40 percent. We have employed more than 5,000 additional teachers above raw growth, built 34 new schools and 1,500 new classrooms, tripled funding for industry training, and introduced Modern Apprenticeships and no-interest student loans. We have invested an amazing $4 billion extra a year into the education system. This is a very solid record of achievement that stands in stark contrast to National\u2019s dismal and mean record in the 1990s of bulk funding, demoralised teachers, and grossly indebted students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ac6cb24509b40c18b5f98fe3f871c80\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is serous about cracking down on truancy, why does his ministry not know how many truancy prosecutions were taken by schools last year or how many district truancy workers there are on the ground throughout New Zealand; and why has the ministry\u2019s crackdown on truancy in problem regions resulted in only 24 prosecutions in the last 4 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220be238e0547c417ca10f27ddd3d4c2bb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: On the one hand, the member says that we do not know how many prosecutions there are, but then, on the other hand, she quotes the figure of 24, which I gave just a couple of minutes ago. I remind the House that boards of trustees make the decision to prosecute parents. Prosecution is the final stage of a very long process of trying to get kids back to school. Of course, boards would be reluctant to reach that point without trying other things like mediation and intervention. In the end, though, that is a decision for the boards, not for the Ministry of Education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cfbd973221b435f90c669ba3a9e5edb\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that a Government that talks tough on truancy does not know how many prosecutions there are, does not know how many truancy officers there are, and itself prosecutes only 24 cases in 4 years on its new streamlined process, yet it watches over a 20 percent increase in truancy, which is climbing to 31,000 truants in any one week here in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce803e6bbba04defa16611ccd9044d27\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Where does the member get the figure of 31,000 from? Does she simply make it up? I remind the House again that for the very first time ever at the end of this year we will be able to tell how many students have been truanting in New Zealand. We have never been able to know that before. Why will we be able to know it? Because this Government has invested in an electronic enrolment system that every school in New Zealand is now on. We have invested in education. We have not bulk funded; we have not cut funding for education. We believe that education is the key to lifting all New Zealanders to their full potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251fb7a570c594768a8f56b8bb3cdc15b\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister asks where I get my information from. I seek leave to table the report from the ministry showing that 31,000 truants in any one week\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed8286a3a81045e28b926af5e16442cc\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b076f35685b42579f94b22b367b1e7b\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Minister\u2019s answer to written question No. 1434, which shows that the ministry does not collect any data on how many front-line truancy officers there are in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f031a8d032b64ffcad0b2ea43e29b99b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230997c49735b4923b7e0c9043a3fa49c\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the answer to written question No. 1436, which shows that the ministry does not collect any numbers of the prosecutions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d15c87b9b7e5412cba022de2c6099781\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abddd08ec84c4c5ea5460cc1c1d549a0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing that of the figure the member has given the House, 51 percent of those children were actually found to be at school and another 25 percent were found to be the children of people who had migrated from New Zealand, and that actually we had less than 1,000\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022afa0ae1ca44146e78eeaeeb20f0bbf0a\u0022\u003ESuperannuation\u2014Rate Changes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u002279530027b884472cb4f602bffa9a89d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279530027b884472cb4f602bffa9a89d7\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What reports has she received on changes to rates for New Zealand superannuation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac163852fdf44752b97d0e213f0b0380\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac163852fdf44752b97d0e213f0b0380\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I have recently announced new rates for New Zealand superannuation that come into effect on 1 April and show that a married couple receiving superannuation or the veterans pension will be better off by $700 a year. Around 510,000 older New Zealanders will benefit from these increases. Under our Government, superannuation has increased by 8.5 percent over and above the cost of living increases. I am delighted to say that senior citizens really are better off under a Labour-led Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022477a840869164a37a5a63007a6597965\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Has the Minister read the advice released yesterday by the Child Poverty Action Group, which suggests that although New Zealand\u2019s superannuation is a great success story in preventing hardship amongst the elderly, many poor children have been left out of the bulk of the Working for Families package by being denied the in-work tax credit\u2014230,000 of them\u2014and when will her Government pay as much attention to the needs of its youngest citizens as to those of its oldest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a66d7ad6981469f8ea8c12aa19c312d\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have read the report the member refers to. It is not true that those on benefits with children do not benefit from the Working for Families package. They benefit from two of the three components. They do not benefit from the in-work tax credit, because they are not in work. That payment was to ensure that work did genuinely pay. The number of families who are dependent on the benefit system has now substantially reduced since the living standards report to which the Child Poverty Action Group report referred to. I just remind the House of my earlier point that under Labour the difference for a married couple on superannuation is $34 a week more than it would have been under a National Government. There is the difference between Labour and National on superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9d18d6678e648e085d368ab70d75763\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister tell the House how New Zealand superannuation compares with the average wage in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022431510c040dd46149983add96079d2f6\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly can. Under the legislation, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act, Labour committed to ensuring that New Zealand superannuation for a married couple never dropped below 65 percent of the average wage. Under the confidence and supply agreement with New Zealand First that percentage has been increased to 66 percent. This year the newly adjusted rate of superannuation will be 66.23 percent, compared with what it would have been under National, where it would have been 61 percent of the average wage. That is a huge difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfd7cda7f993441a8da1b262fcad6989\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a release from the Child Poverty Action Group, \u201CChildren need to share a poverty prevention success story\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246e1e14485c3447cb3dbfc846e3799a6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there nay objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c65a01737fa5481c90c66c7926cb728e\u0022\u003EInland Revenue Department\u2014Child Support Debt\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1aa6f1c4a444b49bea06a58f53d2942\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1aa6f1c4a444b49bea06a58f53d2942\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: Is he satisfied with the way that the Inland Revenue Department responds to notifications from custodial parents when their former partners with child support debt are either entering or leaving New Zealand; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022361bc2310b8a461fb5876f7b4072d6d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022361bc2310b8a461fb5876f7b4072d6d7\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E In general, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aebf385f668463bbdadcbe3ba3a533b\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister think the Inland Revenue Department should have responded in the case of a mother who, in January this year, provided the department with the flight details of her Australian-based former husband and father of her two children who has ignored his child support obligations for 10 years, owes over $20,000 in child support, earns A$86,000 a year, and comes and goes from New Zealand as he pleases; why, despite being handed all the information on a plate, did the Inland Revenue Department do no more than meekly ask this man as he was about the leave the country whether he would like to make a voluntary payment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f32b86e07cf45a68bd39f7ff5958582\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: It depends on the quality of the information provided. In reality, the legislation that was passed in Parliament last year, which the member\u2019s party opposed, will make it easier for us to make those collections in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b8fcc986504456d9bafef248225dda0\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: What are the benefits of the changes to allow a partial write-off of late payment penalties, and how successful have they been?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ef7d102f62a45949cdbccba1f63687e\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: The measures I referred to in the earlier answer that the member\u2019s question seeks information on have been extremely successful. In fact, as a result of that legislation, around 80 percent of liable parents whom we wrote off some debt for in the year to 31 December, had actually had a debt that was more than 1 year outstanding. Of those parents, a further 70 percent have subsequently reduced their debt levels. What that means is that more child support is being paid and getting through to more children. That has to be successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244a85c5f57964f83b9e6685dbb6666b8\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Inland Revenue Department inform the woman on 14 January that it was going to take action and that the father of her children \u201Cwill be in for a big surprise on the 23rd of January when he tries to leave the country\u201D, only to do no more than ask him whether he would like to pay off his debt, and why did the Inland Revenue Department not do more when it had exact details of when and where he would be, and for weeks in advance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227488b3f3427d41e9a31db49a6a9e3ba7\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: As the member well knows, I am by law not permitted to discuss individual cases, but if she cares to raise it with me privately I am happy to have that followed through by officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022850825f9d99e4b549f8b27ef04944944\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that a huge number of parents who are categorised as \u201Cliable\u201D by the Family Court are just parents who want to be involved in the day-to-day care of their children, but cannot because current Family Court law results in denoting one parent as a part-time carer and the other as having full-time financial obligations; does he believe that a presumption for shared parenting\u2014a policy promoted by United Future\u2014would dramatically reduce the number of parents in the child support system, as well as ensure that children had more meaningful relationships with both parents after separations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295b23a57ece3439696b30d6effe3220b\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I am not responsible for the Family Court aspect of childcare policy, but I do agree very strongly with the member\u2019s contention that most parents do want to be involved in the care of their children, and that shared parenting is in fact a very positive step forward. I congratulate her on the work she has done in promoting this, and hope that it will be possible to make greater allowance for shared parenting arrangements in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a267a85258e49d4b1771ac91f253a96\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister not instruct the Inland Revenue Department to make greater use of its existing power to apply for arrest warrants in order to prevent these deadbeat dads from walking away from their financial obligations to their very own children; and why does this particular Government he supports put so-called freedom of movement rights above the rights of good custodial mums and their children\u2014why are those rights more important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022168371e5ce904e9890ee4fc50b807f34\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, since I have been Minister, the department has made greater use of its powers to seek arrest warrants. One of the interesting consequences has been that whenever that has occurred, in all but four cases we have been able to get repayments made. Only in four cases have we had to resort to arrests. So the complaint the member makes has actually been overtaken by events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7544b11c0ba44f5a9ee4b0ee6c7a397\u0022\u003EEnergy\u2014Supply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022 data-id=\u00227d93bbe250e34894a73b6e34376d049d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d93bbe250e34894a73b6e34376d049d\u0022\u003ELESLEY SOPER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy: What recent reports has he received on energy security?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00223954929c802d40f0b2b756dd2600841c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223954929c802d40f0b2b756dd2600841c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Transpower has today announced that Pole 1 of the high voltage direct current interisland electricity grid link will be available for service, for northward flows, at times of peak demand this winter if it is needed. This restores yet another layer of protection in the unlikely event, for example, that the other Cook Strait link fails. There are many other substantial grid improvements occurring through the country. Capital expenditure on the grid this year is approximately $400 million, up from $60 million per annum in the 1990s. This sixfold increase is very substantial, and the power system\u2019s resilience is improving substantially year by year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288f7e526f46348e981b1739784b66add\u0022\u003ELesley Soper\u003C/span\u003E: What other recent changes have been made to improve energy security?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf0b921bb5f49b294aa9920da2fcb0c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: This week the Minister for the Environment released, under the Resource Management Act, the new national policy statement on electricity transmission, and this adopted recommendations by the board of inquiry chaired by Justice Salmon. I have today released a revised Government policy statement on electricity governance to the Electricity Commission, to implement the New Zealand Energy Strategy as we head towards 90 percent renewable electricity. Of course, last week Mighty River Power\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ff50344497e434c95fe73a30f520a7d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s going down\u2014it\u2019s gone down every year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e53ebc8258874d0f91a1558700834967\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not\u2014rubbish! Of course, last week Mighty River Power announced it has resource consent for, and is proceeding with, another 130 megawatt, renewable, geothermal power station. The Government\u2019s clear, sensible transformation of the energy sector to a sustainable and affordable future really is proceeding apace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251c591896ab34335bdeb23bf7782073f\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen the Marsh report of last September, commissioned by Transpower, which led to Transpower shutting down the Pole 1 link, and in that report has he seen the risks that were outlined of recommissioning Pole 1\u2014those being a major fire in the station with a high chance of spreading mercury vapour into the atmosphere, and the contamination of land from oil or mercury spills, with a suggestion that it was not a case of if, but when, those might happen; if so, what can he say to the House to assure New Zealanders that should the link be required this winter, everything has been done to mitigate against those prospects that were so real last September?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ce3939355d540c09d8a73290500a023\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Here we have it again\u2014scaremongering from Mr Brownlee. Last month he was telling us that the lights were going out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2b507b115d44dca8fe9c26ed2b57f32\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is unusual, I know, but the Minister is off on the wrong track so I will help him. I have in my possession here a document: Risk Analysis: Pole 1 HVDC Line, with the words \u201CTranspower Limited\u201D, \u201CMarsh\u201D, \u201CFinal Report\u201D, dated September, which does outline the risks I have suggested. It does talk, for example, of the release of free mercury following earthquake or fire that will cause vapour to be released to other parts of the substation building and the external atmosphere. This is the reason why the pole was closed down. I have asked the Minister what has changed. I now seek leave to table this document, in order that he may answer factually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fef01306ccb4f9688923c9c9d11f428\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection. Would the Minister please give his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873c6dc660a743f3a01ee1c37c3574d7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have read the report, and here we have Mr Brownlee scaremongering again. Last month he told the country that the lights were going out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a03c4d2d2d14c5cbe5cf5bc8295e1c4\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You have asked that we do not interject too unreasonably when a Minister speaks, so I intend not to do that. But it is appropriate, Madam Speaker, that you keep his answer to a factual basis related to the question. I asked him what has changed. There is no scaremongering in that. I did not write this report; I simply read it. The Minister claims that he has read it, so what has changed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202af1a58cebb4529b63a687b4a863a66\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think we should just let the Minister give his answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022714e9c6ff4794cbf8ddf5a01914d81bf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have read the report, and here we have Mr Brownlee scaremongering again. Last month\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c34916de60b4463e954b2dc5f2eb415d\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3ec37de751b43bd98b001bde6cf763c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Points of order are heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d33ea84a7054d9ca7a099b7941ab60c\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: You have asked that we respect the question and answer process; I am doing that. For the Minister to stand up and say that because I am reading a report that has been provided to him\u2014a report that did see the entire operation of Pole 1 shut down last September, a report that indicates the huge risks around the operation of this pole\u2014I have asked him, simply, what has changed. That is not scaremongering; it is unreasonable for you to allow the Minister to answer the question in that light.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef61904ffbc34f198bd310e7f1492ab9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Can I suggest that the member himself is now starting to become disorderly. He raised this point of order in exactly the same way he raised the point of order on exactly the same introduction to the answer previously given. To do that, therefore, is in fact questioning your previous ruling, Madam Speaker, that the Minister should be allowed to answer. This is a robust exchange, and if the member cannot take it he should not ask robust questions or try to give his Budget Policy Statement speech by way of a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204682f4306434ddaa6478a2535ec879e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I think if we allowed the Minister to continue\u2014the Minister is allowed to give opinions under the Standing Orders\u2014I am sure he will factually address the question if he is given an opportunity to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ffb7547b2d14ad7a0f6898283fd461d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, as I said, I have read the report, and I repeat that the last lot of scaremongering from Mr Brownlee said that the lights were going to go out and that cold showers were imminent. His scaremongering was as erroneous then as it is now, as were his embarrassing mistakes about Whirinaki. Of course, Mr Brownlee\u2019s answer to security of supply\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe0fc8460b224528a410ee4df728a426\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Minister is addressing a question, and he is going into all sorts of stray ground. The reality is that the security of New Zealand\u2019s electricity supply is still precarious. No one other than the Minister would argue otherwise. The fact is that Whirinaki did burn a million litres of oil, and he is not answering the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4123788ae7f4ea4ad337bae9f0addbe\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. I want the Minister to finish his answer, and then I will judge whether it was an answer in terms of the Standing Orders. If there is one more interruption by way of a point of order on matters I have already ruled on, the member will be leaving the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244273e67887f4bf5854bec90485e435c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, Mr Brownlee\u2019s prescription in respect of security of supply as being coal is shown in his Web video podcast entitled: \u201CSexy coal\u201D\u2014I kid members not. If members look at the National Party website, they will see the \u201CSexy coal\u201D podcast. It is unbelievable and it just shows how out of touch National members are. They do not know what they believe in. Nick Smith is calling for decreases in electricity emissions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218fc1409a98d43eebe200c3c58cd5350\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My colleague Gerry Brownlee asked a very serious question. The Cook Strait cable is one of the most important pieces of infrastructure that New Zealand has. We know that a failure in another country led to significant mercury poisoning for a significant portion of the population, and that, because of the insurance risk associated with that, the Cook Strait cable, Pole 1, was closed down last year. My colleague Gerry Brownlee has repeatedly sought an answer from the Minister as to whether those safety issues have been addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224fda861d91b438a80f9d8c43a2c7a77\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. The member is repeating the former point of order. I have given the member a lot of latitude on this. It is essentially the same point of order. Obviously, the Speaker is not the judge of the quality of the answers. However, I would ask members to allow the Minister to finish answering the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225762f15a94bf476791b55959959514d4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289dc4ada2190415a9494e44b9815254e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker, as I said, does not judge the quality of the answer. The Minister, as I hear him\u2014as much as I can\u2014is addressing the question. It may not be to the satisfaction of the members, and I will not take another point of order on the ruling I have already made. I think this was the third or fourth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c17bf4d36d74093ae6ae4954a19f0e7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. A very clear Standing Order states that Ministers are to answer questions within their ministerial responsibility. I have listened very carefully to the Minister\u2019s answer. He has recited all sorts of things that Mr Brownlee did or did not say. Can you explain to the House\u2014and exactly the same issues arose when you asked Mr Bill English to leave\u2014that Ministers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a28d0cd02fd2419bb8484522e3143f98\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated, Dr Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a52d1e5ebb47169824278b635a23df\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I am just asking you to enforce the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7efe448ddac43e1899adb34f78d48cf\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot do what the member asks until I hear the answer. If there is one more intervention I will ask the member to leave the House. Before I can rule I need to hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022467daf081b88490a9010d578ace651a5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, Mr Brownlee\u2019s answer in respect of security of supply is more coal. We have Nick Smith calling for decreases in electricity emissions while National\u2019s spokesperson on energy, Mr \u201CSexy Coal\u201D Brownlee, is calling for more. It really is amateur hour on the Opposition benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef7508ba14144ae0b4636cca0b5da165\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That did not address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227264069a1f6d457fb9e4ec1d085e2b5e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251a4e8a98d2f4e4b8b3f4a4e39eb459c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister please address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f6e049531644111bf371e0d1d6ad4a1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The issues as to the safety of the high-voltage direct current link are well addressed by the detail of the material that has been released by Transpower. If the situation was as dire as Mr Brownlee says it is, of course Transpower would not be able to insure against the risk. It can insure against the risk, which proves that that risk is not too high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289f98f18ecec4311ba68dba809e797d1\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I have not suggested there was any risk; the Government\u2019s own report has said there is a risk. I seek leave again to table that report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022427a7b79f6bc4c53adf911a1b95072ff\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that report. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695833b73ab045e4a8c6a6fa709b94b6\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister read any recent reports by Dieter Helm, an Oxford University economist and British Government adviser, where, putting it briefly, he suggests that the effect of rising oil and gas prices is leading to big increases in coal burn in China, India, and the USA; knowing that and accepting his answer of positive security of supply, can the Minister tell the House that there will be, in the future, energy prices at a reasonable and affordable cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269277efc79c04247b040abc4e59d1077\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have not read the exact report that the member refers to, but I have read similar reports, and I agree that one of the impacts of higher oil and gas prices has been to cause more coal to be burned internationally. That reinforces one of the points I previously made in this House, which is that although carbon capture and storage is not yet here, and although it is a very expensive technology and therefore is not central to New Zealand\u2019s interests, it is important for the world, and we wish that technology development well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022970bd2ec3cac4d2e853cebe278f461be\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u002291f3af5703884fa7abbc61c8dc3931f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291f3af5703884fa7abbc61c8dc3931f0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a document that clarifies answers to a question in which an Opposition member sought leave to table a document from the Ministry of Education, alleging that 30,000 students were absent from school in any one day. This document clarifies that, actually, it was a snapshot of that day, taken morning and afternoon. It included students who were late for school and who may have been at the doctor or the dentist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ea5a454ffd7409ca055e92878317f72\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022325a6ac486624dec91852d6f7f7f46de\u0022\u003EHousing New Zealand Corporation\u2014Waiting List\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9cfdd1020244ea4b37d675d10000165\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9cfdd1020244ea4b37d675d10000165\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY (National\u2014Whangarei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: How many applicants are currently on the Housing New Zealand Corporation waiting list?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022873fcbffd28e441282b0a19afac5c865\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022873fcbffd28e441282b0a19afac5c865\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Housing New Zealand Corporation advises me that as at 29 February 2008 the number of applicants on the waiting list was 9,875. This figure includes 2,435 applicants already living in Housing New Zealand houses who are seeking a transfer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209609ba9aedb4485bd813e158d03ca8d\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: How many of these thousands of needy families are locked out of a home by an official, written corporation policy where 6,000 market-rent tenants \u201Chave no legal responsibility to advise the corporation of the purchase of an investment property\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262e1fed31f1e40c197c5fdbbe4728fe2\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: I would be keen to hear, if that member has any details of cases that he would like to furnish me with, how that is being applied, and to whose disadvantage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252b591694e33409badc7429be5657466\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: What initiatives is the Labour-led Government taking to reduce the waiting list? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022888ea7b9e1b04c6191ce7798c1aeda43\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: We have a targeted acquisitions programme. We are making better use of the State houses that we do have. We are providing housing through the Housing Innovation Fund. In fact, there are many initiatives\u2014too numerous to mention here\u2014but it does have to be said that it takes a lot longer to build and acquire Housing New Zealand Corporation properties than it does to sell them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277633a25c6134dd78788fc8e45cf6f9b\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that if any of the 6,000 State house tenants paying a market rent buys an investment property or a holiday home, that tenant has no legal responsibility to Housing New Zealand Corporation; or does the Minister think that State house tenants should be able to own rental properties and holiday homes while thousands languish on the waiting list?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022504f042228b3420392323c4b5e9dd9c1\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: I am absolutely clear that the priority for this Government and Housing New Zealand Corporation is to house the most vulnerable in our society. There is no difference to that policy from this Government. If there are occasions that can be called fraud that are to do with subletting\u2014where there are instances of people abusing the privilege that a Housing New Zealand Corporation house provides them\u2014then I would like to know about that so the appropriate steps can be taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d253564c36904ca0b871fccfeab02a8b\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question was about the policy that tenants can have investment properties. It was nothing about fraud. This is actually legal practice, according to the Minister. Could I please have an answer about the legal practice of people being able to have investment properties when they are State house tenants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a37dd6c0233448f8c2238961c25bee6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d28c50b367844eb596becc94a72f8895\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that this policy, which states: \u201CThere is no requirement for the tenants who are paying market rent to declare investments such as interest in properties.\u201D, means that up to 6,000 State house tenants can quite legally be landlords themselves under the Labour Government rules; if not, what does this policy mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd88a86793ce4a4f9f8a494bef255a63\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: I draw to the attention of this House the fact that some 94 or 95 percent of State house tenants are on income-related rentals. The remaining few percent, who are on market rentals, have been tenants for a very long time. They have probably been Housing New Zealand tenants since long before this Government came into power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd2e2e31cfea4d3892d46aa1f026df8b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister please address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265f174817e454ef8aec23ffd1c4c543c\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: I can talk about the policy of this Government, which is to house the most vulnerable. If the policy to which the member refers exists within the corporation, then I will do my best to address that when I have the appropriate information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d99d93478c7415a92be91fd40ef7102\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You asked the Minister to address the question. Should I repeat the question so that the Minister can address it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272a0aad0d53248a7a6dfc5b1a6918aff\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Minister did address the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202e2f4d931e14aaea51f983d5e679dcc\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the reply to written question 10585, which includes \u201C6,000 tenants pay market rent\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022073f37b0de254f16a0ec1fdf4996af91\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e1cf515ff554c228a699c5a34bb5f85\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the financial review containing \u201CMarket rent tenants have no legal responsibility to advise of an investment property.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241c2ea90f9544809c6a98cf48831d33\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022552391f46fb2478bbfa59b36d6c60b98\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. What are we to make of a member of Parliament rising to his feet and seeking to table a page of Hansard? In respect of the question that member has just asked, the first publication was to do with a written question, which becomes part of the record. The member is grossly wasting Parliament\u2019s time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022468b18a7ca1b463d82c62730bd777425\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What members can do is agree or not agree, and they did not agree. It is a matter that is before the Standing Orders Committee as to documents that members ask to table in this House. I personally think it is time we looked at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3999bccca8644cfa312cce426755556\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c885fa6ba8914c6e965919e79908c012\u0022\u003EProtected Disclosures Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aad3337bdf341f3a2e0f1eba328f0fa\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Government Administration Committee: How many submissions have been received on the Protected Disclosures Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u002206789be0d14d4f8491fd822daebd7c2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206789be0d14d4f8491fd822daebd7c2c\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (Chairperson of the Government Administration Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The Government Administration Committee is considering the Protected Disclosures Amendment Bill in the name of the Hon Annette King. Submissions were called for and advertised in the major daily newspapers on 3 November 2007, with the closing date for submissions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022125149905aff4682bb6f39130033caaf\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. This is a very, very narrow question, which asks \u201CHow many \u2026\u201D. The answer is a number; it is not a description of other activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229afdd085841f4c51a043d4748d6a64f1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: One cannot insist on a particular type of answer to the question. I am sure the member will get to how many submissions there are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296a6fb9f238f4d6792971483baafa3ea\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to help the Minister. I am sure he is anxious to hear the answer. The committee received four submissions: one oral, and three written.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257e3b0038cda4573a231f9f2a4045c8d\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What reasons for amending the Protected Disclosures Act 2000 did the person known as the whistleblower in the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board case\u2014a person who had sought protection under that Act\u2014provide in her submission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c4ae4dfb284b2b99d5443e672e71f8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think there are two reasons why that question should be ruled out: firstly, the supplementary question does not relate to the primary question, which asked about a number; and, secondly, it asked for the disclosure of material that has not yet been reported to the House. Therefore, it would be inappropriate for it to be reported in this way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cb6e91abcde46eab36defc43aaf2f1b\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, the primary question related specifically to the Protected Disclosures Amendment Bill, which is a subject that was being addressed by the chairperson of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb725a9224f840928fcbb39bc7f5709e\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The reference was to the whistleblower, who gave an oral submission in public to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ae0966d100c4f7e938048ed948d8189\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The chairperson of the committee is not responsible for the views of submitters to the committee. The chairperson is responsible only for the process. Any question relating to the process is in order, but any question that relates to the substance of the submission is out of order. So that supplementary question was out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022606c4ff21eb24c30b90469ac1f0a9c83\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document from the person known as the whistleblower in order to background her issues in relation to the district health board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022515d1cd6c1cd4607b04e65b91cac7048\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221dd40bbd5b0141f591cdb3eae1640ace\u0022\u003EDebate on Budget Policy Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223247634c8e954b82bd24fe427077bf89\u0022\u003EDebate on Budget Policy Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00221d58528e8a864f8c834629e58e1d5d91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d58528e8a864f8c834629e58e1d5d91\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (Deputy Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget policy Statement. The Budget Policy Statement is published with the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update and outlines the Government\u2019s intentions for the 2008 Budget and also for future years. The best thing I can say about this Budget Policy Statement is that Labour will not be involved with it in future years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe people of New Zealand are sick of the controlling tentacles of this Labour Government reaching into every aspect of their lives. They are sick of the burgeoning bureaucratic regulation under this Labour Government. They are sick of this Government getting bigger and bigger at the expense of ordinary New Zealanders, whose financial position is getting worse as this Government takes more and more tax off them. If members doubt what I have just been saying, the submissions to the Finance and Expenditure Committee covered a number of these issues, and I will outline a few of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWe at the select committee heard from business and farming interests in New Zealand. They were quite clear when they told the community that they were alarmed\u2014that was the language they used\u2014at the rate at which government spending has been increasing, leading to higher inflation, higher interest rates, and a higher exchange rate. That was their language\u2014they were \u201Calarmed\u201D by it. They said that the higher overall taxation levels we have under this Labour Government are simply crippling the productive sector of this country. But, worst of all, they said that collapsing productivity growth has got them really worried, because that is leading to higher inflation and higher interest rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWhat we see is a lost opportunity. We have had probably the best international environment for economic growth since the 1950s and 1960s, and this Government has squandered it. It had a chance to do something to really raise New Zealand\u2019s productivity levels. The submitters to the select committee pointed out that productivity since Labour came into office in 2000 has collapsed. That was their language\u2014productivity has \u201Ccollapsed\u201D. When productivity collapses we cannot get growth without inflation, and we therefore get high interest rates hitting every mum and dad with a home mortgage in this country, and, of course, those high interest rates push up the exchange rate, hitting all of our exporters as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EInterestingly, though, it was not just the business and farming organisations that made submissions. So too did social interest organisations. There was a submission from one group called the Child Poverty Action Group, which is actually an interesting name for a bunch of researchers from Auckland University. This group is based at Auckland University and is made up of academic researchers. They told the select committee that the Working for Families package, which is the Government\u2019s flagship policy, has failed New Zealand\u2019s poorest families. They went on to say that KiwiSaver benefits the better-off, interestingly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EIn their evidence on the Working for Families package, they told the committee that 185,000 children from families at the bottom of New Zealand\u2019s income levels get little out of it. In fact, they pointed out in their submission\u2014and it is covered in the committee\u2019s report to the House\u2014that if the mums and dads of those 185,000 children try to earn more for their families, this Government taxes them on any dollar they earn by over 90 percent\u201490 percent! And if they try to get off the benefit and try to stand on their own feet the Government taxes them at 100 percent\u2014100 percent! If they dare to earn another dollar under this Labour Government, the Labour Government takes it all off them\u2014and Government members say they care about the poorer people of this country! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWhat is interesting is that we asked Dr Cullen\u2014because Dr Cullen came to the select committee\u2014whether the Budget will do anything for those 185,000 children whom the Child Poverty Action Group identified. Dr Cullen said no. He said there would not be anything in this Budget to help those 185,000 children from our poorer families who were identified by the Child Poverty Action Group from Auckland University. [Interruption] And Steve Chadwick says Labour cares! We know when Labour members care. They care when they are 15 points behind in the polls. That is the only time they care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThis Budget Policy Statement covers the vexed issue for Labour of tax cuts. I think poor old Dr Cullen is allergic to the words \u201Ctax cuts\u201D. I think Dr Cullen genuinely believes that New Zealanders are too stupid to know how to spend their own money. Dr Cullen believes he knows far better how to spend people\u2019s money, and he goes quite septic at the thought of tax cuts. In his Budget Policy Statement he outlines four conditions for tax cuts. He says the Government will cut taxes without increasing borrowing, without cutting public services, and in a way that does not exacerbate inflationary pressure. He says the Government will cut taxes in a way that does not lead to greater inequalities in our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI think that Dr Cullen forgot two conditions for tax cuts. I am sure he would have included them had he remembered. The first condition is that we have to be in an election year. We know that Labour considers cutting personal taxes only in an election year. The second point Dr Cullen forgot is that Labour will cut taxes in an election year only if it is more than 15 points behind in the polls. Do members remember the last election? Dr Cullen promised the \u201Cchewing gum tax cut\u201D. Do members remember that? Well, of course, that final condition was not met because Labour was not more than 15 points behind in the polls. So Dr Cullen just said: \u201CNo. We won\u2019t cut taxes, because that final condition was not met. We weren\u2019t 15 points behind in the polls.\u201D So even though it was an election year, after the election Labour broke its promise and did not cut taxes. New Zealanders should remember that. New Zealanders should remember that although Labour might talk the language of tax cuts before an election, it will find every excuse in the book after an election to cut back on them or cut them out altogether. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThis Budget Policy Statement has a big headline on page 8: \u201CRevenue forecasts are being revised upwards,\u201D. That is why Labour promised tax cuts. But, of course, since this Budget Policy Statement was published in December things have turned to custard a bit. We have had the international financial markets continuing to gyrate. We have had the housing market hitting a thicker wall than people had actually expected. We have had droughts hitting a crucial part of New Zealand\u2019s economy\u2014the agricultural sector. And what do we see? The Government\u2019s latest financial statements to the end of January\u2014the latest financial statements\u2014show that revenue is down. Whoops! The Budget Policy Statement forecast revenue to be up, but the latest financial statements show that revenue is down $700 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EAlready the Labour Government is having to borrow money. The Budget Policy Statement makes that very clear\u2014members should look at the tables on page 57. Already the Government is having to borrow money to fund its operations. Now, with revenue down by $700 million, it will have to borrow more money to fund the tax cuts, and that will breach Dr Cullen\u2019s test about no borrowing for tax cuts. Which will go? That will be the test. Will Dr Cullen breach that test, or will he scrap the tax cuts the way he did before? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe people of New Zealand should be very suspicious of this Labour Government when it comes to tax cuts. New Zealanders right now, under this Labour Government, are facing climbing house mortgage and rental costs, spiralling food and petrol costs, and rising electricity prices because of a rushed emissions trading scheme. They are facing an exchange rate that is crippling our exporters. The only thing that is likely to grow under this Labour Government is more bureaucratic regulation. This will be Dr Cullen\u2019s last Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022 data-id=\u00221e37878a89e7415e872dceba97cf6eb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e37878a89e7415e872dceba97cf6eb4\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I put a simple question to that member Lockwood Smith, or to any member from the National Party: will National keep Working for Families, or will it scrap it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022911cafa8d8424c0b9965b14800add988\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not telling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d27c450920644eea193d4316ae4e84a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, National members are not telling us. You see, this is the problem. National has said it will not tell us. Do members know what that is called? It is called being slippery. The leader of the National Opposition is saying he will not tell us what he thinks, because he knows that people do not want to hear the things he thinks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThe Budget Policy Statement sets out the guidelines for the Government\u2019s Budget decisions and the priorities going forward. Although the Government is coming up with ideas on taking the country forward\u2014for example, the fabulous New Zealand Fast Forward programme launched yesterday, which I will talk about in a minute\u2014some very, very slippery things are going on in the National Party. The problem is that the party is stuck. It has had to agree with things it does not support, it supports things it does not agree with, and it is being slippery about things it wants to support but knows the public does not support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThis is precisely the problem the National Party has, and it was summed up beautifully in a cartoon in a recent New Zealand Herald, entitled \u201CFlight of the bumble-key\u201D. In this cartoon we see the Leader of the Opposition as a lovely bumblebee, buzzing round and round in circles and not able to make up his mind whether to fly off to the left sign, \u201CExpediency\u201D, or to the right sign, \u201CPrinciple\u201D. He buzzes round and round in circles and cannot decide what to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003ELet us look at all the things the National Party does not like but has had to agree with. Mr Key said New Zealand was missing in action in Iraq, but then went on to say National would not have sent troops there. He said climate change was a complete hoax, and a little later on he said he firmly believed in climate change and always had. His comments about student loans were a beauty. He said interest-free student loans were unaffordable and an irresponsible cost to the country. Then in January this year he said National would keep interest-free student loans for tertiary students. He said being nuclear-free was bad news for economic growth, but then said National would stick with anti-nuclear legislation. When commenting on State housing he said the public housing planned for Hobsonville was economic vandalism, and that National was committed to cancelling it, but in February this year he said: \u201CI\u2019m in favour of the affordable housing they might be building there.\u201D When KiwiSaver was set up he said it was fundamentally flawed and a glorified Christmas club, but last August he said it was probably going to be successful and not too bad. In terms of Auckland airport and strategic asset sales, he said National would not have changed the rules as the Government did, but 1 day later he said: \u201CWe\u2019d put a new one in that says that there must be majority ownership held in New Zealand.\u201D On Treaty settlements he said National had no firm date for a deadline but would like to see them cleared up by a certain time. Then just 12 hours later he said: \u201CI gave the impression that National did not have a date. That was wrong.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThe National Party is being found out, and that is why the answer to the question I asked earlier about whether National would keep Working for Families was so good. The member down the back said: \u201CWe aren\u2019t going to tell you.\u201D That is part of the problem. We know what that statement actually means. It means that National members know they cannot tell us the answer, because the public do not want to hear it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThere is a whole litany of things that the Leader of the Opposition has said about Auckland International Airport, but regrettably I do not have time to talk about that. Another classic example is Mr Key\u2019s comment yesterday about the New Zealand Fast Forward programme. The programme is an investment of $700 million, which with interest will probably go up to a billion dollars. With dollar for dollar from the private sector it will probably go up to $2 billion investment in research and development in pastoral and food industries. What did the National leader call the programme? He called it a \u201Cgimmick\u201D. He was the only one who opposed it. Everyone else said it was a good idea. Then a little bit later he said: \u201CNational will be rolling out a comprehensive research and development policy closer to the election. We will make long-term funding commitments that provide certainty to the sector because we see it as a way of lifting productivity and helping to make New Zealand a smarter nation.\u201D Pray tell me, what is New Zealand Fast Forward all about? That is precisely what it is about. So Mr Key opposes a good idea that was announced yesterday, and then waffles on and tells people that National is serious about research and development funding. That is simply not believable, and that is a problem for the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EWhat about the fiasco over Treaty settlements and M\u0101ori seats? The problem here is that Mr Key is trying to placate two groups at once. He is trying to placate the M\u0101ori Party by saying that the M\u0101ori seats could go at some stage but not just yet. This is because he wants to go into coalition with the M\u0101ori Party. But then again he wants to placate the rednecks in the National Party who want to get rid of the M\u0101ori seats. The problem is that he cannot say both things at the same time, because someone will catch him out. That is the rule of politics. It is much better to be principled, much better to say what one believes, and then take the consequences. The public will honour and respect a person for that but they will not respect people who slip and slide and say things they think the public want to hear. It is exactly the same with Treaty settlements. Mr Key did not say there was a date\u2014I think he had forgotten. He said he could not remember he did have a date. Once again, he did not want to offend the M\u0101ori Party by saying National would sort this out and get it over with quickly, but also he wanted to placate the rednecks in the party who do not think there should be Treaty settlements full stop. The problem is that one cannot say different things to different audiences when everybody is listening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EOf course, we know what will happen if the National Party should ever get into Government\u2014not in my lifetime, mercifully. If it ever did, we know what it would do. National would scrap the 20 free hours\u2019 early childhood education. We know this because it argued against it. We know that National wants to privatise the health system. Members opposite got in a mess when they were asked about this, because they really did not want to say they want to privatise health, so they tried to say something else and got caught out saying both things. KiwiSaver would be gone, but National members cannot bring themselves to say that. As someone down the back said: \u201CWe\u2019re not going to say; we\u2019re not going to tell you.\u201D I think this comment that National is not going to tell us what it would do about Working for Families is a code for saying that would be gone, too. We remember that a previous National Government cut national superannuation, so we can say that New Zealand superannuation will be cut again, if the National Party ever gets near the Treasury benches. Lord knows what National ultimately thinks about transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThe Listener has a beautiful cartoon showing John Key saying: \u201CWould we sell airports? \u2026 We would love to see wages drop. Want a $200m meat subsidy? State housing will lower property values. I want to lead the Labour Party.\u201D; and two people in the corner saying: \u201CIt\u2019s the pressure of saying only what people want to hear.\u201D I say: \u201CWhen the cartoons are having a go at you, when the cartoons are pillorying you, you know that your time is up.\u201D National members thought they would sleepwalk to victory, but we now have a decent fight on our hands. Suddenly people are working out that those members are trying to say two things to two different groups, and those members have been caught out. Thank goodness that slippery, slipping National Party has no show of getting into Government at the end of the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002257da95f5d9384e309683f0c98e41da1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257da95f5d9384e309683f0c98e41da1f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a bit rich for that member to be quoting a cartoon when the Prime Minister of New Zealand blames the problems of the Labour Party on Minhinnick, the cartoonist who I think left the New Zealand Herald 30 years ago. That shows just how out of touch she is with the public mood. That is the contrast we are seeing here. Labour plays all these fancy little political games. Dr Cullen sets trapdoors, makes traps, and dreams up clever little moves, like how he is against the Auckland airport deal when he is for it. But the public are facing the reality of 8 years of mismanagement of economic growth. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI invite the member Jill Pettis to turn up in Wanganui and take responsibility for the fact that she is part of the problem that has caused 10 percent interest rates. She should explain why that is to people in Wanganui with mortgages. I think that is why she is retiring. She has figured out that there is no way she could get voted in in that seat. The member sitting beside her, Steve Chadwick, knows she will not be representing Rotorua for the very good reason that people in Rotorua are facing 10 percent mortgage rates, their morning tea discussion is about the price of butter and cheese in our supermarkets, their tax rates have not changed for 9 years, and they see Dr Cullen on the TV saying \u201CDon\u2019t worry, folks. My borrowing is low. My bank account is in surplus. But your borrowing is way up. It has never been higher. Your interest rates have never been worse. One of the reasons is because I took much more tax than I needed.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EEvery time Dr Cullen is on TV, Labour loses support. People know that when he is boasting about what good shape the Government\u2019s books are in, it is at the expense of their overdraft and now their house price. If Labour thinks that will work when people\u2019s house prices are starting to drop and when even if the Reserve Bank drops interest rates it may not drop mortgage rates, then it is mistaken. It is not all Dr Cullen\u2019s fault, but that is the reality that people are facing. What is happening is that the events of the last 8 years are starting to look a bit different from how they looked even 12 months ago. Dr Cullen used to portray himself as the magical manager of the economy over that 8-year period. Now that it is starting to look a bit gloomy, I think we will find him arguing that he was not really there; it was someone else\u2019s fault. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI want to raise just one example with the Labour members. They have claimed relentlessly that they are totally responsible for the drop in unemployment. They have claimed that relentlessly. Well, the Reserve Bank forecasts that over the next 3 years, unemployment will go up by 60 percent\u2014from 3.4 percent to well over 5 percent. Who takes credit for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022610442d1ae37468996267a44e39098b9\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: Cullen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255f350cb10184da88bb6f64bcb165e17\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not see Michael Cullen getting up and saying: \u201CI\u2019m responsible for the rise as much as I was for the fall.\u201D\u2014no, not at all. That rise in unemployment is a direct result of his management of the economy. It is likely to be the case that if National has the privilege of becoming the Government we will have to deal with that mess\u2014with sharply rising unemployment that is partly a result of 9 years of mismanagement of the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe problem now is that the public do not believe anything Dr Cullen says. We have had a few questions in the House over the last couple of days about debt. Dr Cullen has been obsessing about debt for the last 6 or 7 years. As we know, he has been looking for any excuse to make sure he keeps up his punishing rates of taxation of middle New Zealand, whereby people on $39,000 pay what used to be the wealthy tax rate of 33c in the dollar. We know that is a problem, because after Kevin Rudd\u2019s tax cuts in Australia, someone on the average wage in Australia will pay half the tax rates that someone in New Zealand pays. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EDr Cullen has kept pretending that there is a big problem with debt. Just a couple of days ago he gave a speech in which he said: \u201CAnyone who talks about borrowing money talks about it only because they want it to finance tax cuts we cannot afford.\u201D A little light bulb went off in my head. I thought \u201CI wonder whether Dr Cullen is borrowing money.\u201D And he is. This year, Dr Cullen is borrowing $2.7 billion. I will ask Labour members to answer the question that he has asked us: \u201CWhat is he borrowing $2.7 billion for?\u201D. Is he borrowing it to finance the increase in the number of teachers in our schools? Is he borrowing it to finance the army of useless policy analysts who served up the analysis behind the Fast Forward fund? It was 10 pages of Cabinet paper waffle that we will absolutely not put up with. Is he borrowing it to finance his tax cuts? I will tell members how tricky Dr Cullen has been. One of his tests for tax cuts is that he says: \u201CI\u2019m not going to borrow for tax cuts.\u201D So what he has done is borrow this year, before 1 July, so that after 1 July, in the run-up to the election, he can then say: \u201CI\u2019m not borrowing for tax cuts.\u201D He is borrowing $3 billion this year but none in the next financial year. He is hoarding the cash now; borrowing now, for the cash he needs next year. He will go on TV and say: \u201CI\u2019m not borrowing for tax cuts.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EFortunately, our public accounting system is transparent enough that Dr Cullen has been uncovered. One of his tests is that he said: \u201CI\u2019m not borrowing for tax cuts.\u201D We can confirm that Treasury has put in the accounts that he is borrowing for tax cuts. Not only that but also Treasury has said\u2014and I will quote, because journalists do not believe me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca4c543ef62c4896b9c144cf447d140b\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What do they say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d139b91d8aa49ec8f92367b75e787d6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Treasury says: \u201CThe Government is increasing borrowings to meet the cash shortfall.\u201D How could it be any more blunt? Cash surpluses become deficits because of the tax cuts, and those deficits are going to be \u201Cmet by borrowings\u201D. Dr Cullen is working on the principle that if he shouts loud enough that someone else is burning down the house, someone else might burn down the house but no one will notice that he is burning down the house across the road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe man has no credibility. He has gone on for months about how he is not borrowing, and he is. Then today he claimed that he has reduced gross debt. Actually, he has not. I will quote from the financial statements of the New Zealand Government, which show that in the time he has been in office\u20142000-06\u2014gross debt has not dropped a dollar. He has not repaid a cent of debt but he has spent 7 years saying that he has done nothing else. Sure, as a proportion of the economy it has dropped, because the economy has grown; it is not because he has paid it off. He has told taxpayers he needed all that extra revenue to pay off debt, and he has not paid off a cent. This year, after 8 years, debt will go up by $2.7 billion. The man is a fraud. He has given up any pretence to competent economic management, because only one thing matters to him: the re-election of the Labour Government. At any cost to anyone at any time, the Labour Government must be re-elected. The very heartening thing is that out on the street they know that. It will not matter if he throws the kitchen sink at them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn fact, after the announcement yesterday, which tried to make the numbers look big, my constituents have been ringing up and saying: \u201CWhy is he spending $750 million to get my vote?\u201D. In fact, one of them said: \u201CHe could have got it for $1 million; why is he spending $750 million?\u201D. The bigger that Labour members try to make the numbers, the more cynical the public will be. The New Zealand public know what is going on. They do not actually need us to lay it all out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022652501bd97504c7cadba5031aab308fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022652501bd97504c7cadba5031aab308fd\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E For those who are not aware who that last speech was from, it was from the desiccated coconut of the National Party. What I am told happens to the desiccated coconut is that the insides are torn out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252e662863e2740688d49799d26259b81\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member cannot\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290cc252c91574095be7b03f66d0e40aa\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I know what the member\u2019s point of order is about. It is a personal reflection. The member will withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22c944ed0014235ac701d002a83caf8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw. Mr Key is not the only slippery political version of a conger eel on that side of the House. Mr English is in a very, very difficult position. He has to stand up and try to articulate some sort of National Party policy, when his leader cannot even get it straight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut, in fairness, we should not focus just on Mr Key. I am going to talk about asset sales. I am not going to talk about the particular sale of Auckland International Airport Ltd because I have some responsibility for it. I will confine my comments to State-owned assets. Mr Key is not the only slippery individual in the National Party. I find it ironic that Mr English finished the last part of his speech by accusing us of saying that we will say anything to win. Well, we have had a litany from Paul Swain today of the flip-flops, the greasiness, the slipperiness, and the movements. \u201CWe do not believe in climate change.\u201D, Mr Key said. Then he changed his mind. \u201CWe do have a date for Treaty settlements.\u201D, then it was \u201CNo, we do not.\u201D And on it goes. But these issues are not confined just to Mr Key. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will read, as we talk about State asset sales, from a transcript of the Agenda programme on 23 September 2007. Guyon Espiner asked: \u201CAre there any state assets that National thinks should be sold?\u201D. The response from Mr English was, and this is a cracker: \u201CWell if the nation says we want to retain control of these state assets then we can\u2019t expect to be a government and say we\u2019re going to go and head off in the opposite direction, \u2026\u201D. Now, not a day later, not an hour later, not a minute later, but about three paragraphs into the transcript later, Mr Espiner asked: \u201CWhat about the electricity companies, they\u2019re big assets, and what about giving Kiwi mums and dads a shot at owning some shares in those?\u201D. Mr English said in response, four paragraphs later: \u201CWell I mean I wouldn\u2019t exclude any,\u201D\u2014he was talking about the electricity companies\u2014\u201Cclearly those kind of assets are very topical at the moment, \u2026\u201D. Then we go to a day later, I think it is, 24 September on National Radio, Mr English said: \u201CSo partial sell-downs of SOEs is one way the Government can build this savings culture.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo what we do know is that the conger eel of the National Party, \u201Cold slippery\u201D over there, is but only one. Mr English has flip-flopped more times on asset sales than anyone can count. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we fast forward to last week\u2019s proceedings on another particular issue concerning an asset, which I will not talk about. We know what the National Party\u2019s position is on that. Mr English\u2014and people ought to be reminded of this\u2014is the man who tried to have it both ways. He said \u201CWell, we will not sell the country\u2019s assets because we got in the poo last time, and it is unpopular.\u201D Then he said \u201CWell, actually we do believe in a partial sale of State assets.\u201D We asked what that meant, and he said \u201CWell, this KiwiSaver, the superannuation fund, and these funds are trawling around, looking for assets, so here is an opportunity for good old Kiwi mums and dads to buy those assets and have them invested.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr Swain said that there is one problem with that, though\u2014and he is right. Kiwi mums and dads, through the ownership stake that the Crown has in those SOEs, have already purchased them through their tax. Mr Key and Mr English would then have them sold off and recycled through the system, regardless of whether there is a Crown stake, to generously\u2014says the National Party\u2014give these Kiwi mums and dads the wonderful opportunity to spend their own money for a second time, buying back, through the superannuation fund or whatever, what they already own. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI would ask members how many ways we can slice the State-owned assets onion. How many storylines do those members think people will or will not believe? I think it was Mr Swain, or another speaker, who made this point. We cannot go down to one end of the public bar and say one thing to a group of folk, then go down to the other end of the public bar, or the workingmen\u2019s club, and say the opposite, and not be stupid enough not to realise that those two groups will probably get together over a beer and have a chat and compare notes. The communities are not silly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe ought to remind the communities of what this Government inherited when we came into office in 1999. That crew over there left behind a moribund, inward-looking, industrial graveyard when it came to the New Zealand economy. There was high unemployment, low growth, and low investment. Then they say to us, desperately looking for doom and gloom, that they believe employment rates will go up. We know, of course, that Mr Key got caught\u2014ankle tapped or crash-tackled\u2014by the Whangarei Bay Report newspaper when he admitted he would like to see wages go down. The facts are that he said it, it was proved, and then in that petroleum jelly, slippery kind of way he tried to back out of it. He tried to get around it. He tried to say that it did not happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279e2c720ef6f42ebac05cb40c9faf528\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Like your hairdo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cb61c0be1824d6cb606a790a628aa4b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: There is the low-altitude flyer of the National Party, Mr Finlayson. He is the man who came here as a superstar. He is a barrister, of course, who was denied being appointed a Queen\u2019s Counsel and has never got over it. He has never come anywhere closer to the front bench than he is today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut National left this country an industrial graveyard\u2014industrial archaeology. We now have the lowest unemployment rate in over 20 years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65366cac14347dfb64e7fa52008c3cd\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Here we go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297a06df591cd4b438ad9e2257c403ec6\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they do not like it. \u201CPoppa Smurf\u201D from the West Coast does not like it, and old \u201CAlbert Tatlock\u201D does not like it either. But we are going to say it anyway. We have the highest and longest period of sustained economic growth since the Second World War, and some of the lowest M\u0101ori unemployment we have seen for years. Then those members stand up and say they are for families. The National Party stands up as if its members know something about families that no one else knows. They say they are for families, but what they are against is having any support for those families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhat National is for is an $11.5 billion tax cut, and I could not believe my luck when Bill English started talking about borrowing. In the last election Mr Key, as Opposition finance spokesperson, admitted on the record on the radio that half of the $11 billion for the tax cuts was to be borrowed. We know that last week Newstalk ZB got Mr English on the record, admitting that he would borrow for a tax cut. He would not borrow to build a hospital. He would not borrow to build a school. He would not borrow to build a road or a public transport system. [Interruption] Let them go, Mr Speaker. They make fools of themselves every time they open their mouths. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr English would not borrow for infrastructure. But, oh no, he would borrow for a tax cut. That is National\u2019s stated policy. That is what its members said last time. That is what they will go with this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ELet us compare the record. National abolished the Apprenticeship Act\u2014I think it was in 1995. Apprenticeships were denied. Every young person was denied a chance at trade training. What is our record? There are 14,000 young people in Modern Apprenticeships now\u2014a year ahead of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBill English talked about pensions. I forgot to read out one quote on asset sales. Of course, the National Party would like to hoodwink the pensioners and ensure they forget about the three cuts that National made. Graham Stairmand, the national president of Grey Power, when quoted on 27 September 2007 about Mr English\u2019s admission that he would sell assets, said: \u201CThis will seal the fate of the National Party \u2026 Nobody will be naive enough to believe that this is not going to be a step to full privatisation.\u201D I do not know what Mr Stairmand\u2019s politics are, but I think he has summed it up. Of course, it was National that cut the pension three times. It is Labour that has restored it, and increased it. It was National that pulled the rug out from under every elderly person in the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo we know today that the low-altitude flyers are over there. Mr English squirms every time Mr Key opens his mouth, because Mr Key does not know in which direction of policy he should go next. Mr Key thinks that he can say anything to anybody, and that they will not know that he talks out of both sides of his mouth. But the point today is that he has a deputy leader who is on the record, off the record, and all over the record on one primary issue that is central to the hearts of Kiwis\u2014that is, asset sales. We now know what the agenda is. He does not want to admit it, but he would sell the family silver and sell out every New Zealander, like he did last time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022 data-id=\u002262eff9c090374bcf8b1244a1996fe5a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262eff9c090374bcf8b1244a1996fe5a3\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First is in favour of the Budget Policy Statement, and when the Budget comes around, we will be voting in favour of that as well. But I will take the unusual step of pleading with Dr Cullen and Mr Parker, who are the Ministers in charge of the Overseas Investment Office. I will plead with them publicly on behalf of the farmers down in South Canterbury who are about to lose a dairy company called New Zealand Dairies Ltd. They are to lose that company to a group of Russians who want to increase their investment beyond what they already have. They will do that under the auspices of a so-called rescue package, with which they say they had to put money into the company a wee while ago to save it. In fact, the farmers and shareholders in that area have the money to ensure that the company lives and prospers. It is appropriate that the previous couple of speeches in this debate have been about asset sales, as we would ask Dr Cullen and Mr Parker to please, please, please turn down the application to the Overseas Investment Office from Nutritek for it to take a major shareholding in this company, because we do not want to see any part of the great New Zealand dairying industry going to overseas owners. It is not just the fact that these people are Russians; it would be the same situation if they were Americans, English, Chinese, or anybody else. New Zealand belongs to New Zealanders. The sweat of those farmers\u2019 brows should earn them a return, and if it is their intent to set up a dairy company to enhance that return, then so be it. We do not want to see the Russians coming into this country in an overseas ownership situation that ensures that this company, New Zealand Dairies Ltd, continues to produce commodity products that are then shifted to Nutritek, the Russian-owned company in Singapore, for further processing into baby food, thus enhancing its value throughout Asia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI will just take a minute here to correct some noddy who wrote in a newspaper that the processing of New Zealand dairy products could not be taken over by overseas owners because we would have to put in a pipeline for the milk, or we needed something else. The people who make those sorts of statements have not a clue. The first process is to reduce the water from the milk, producing powder. It is that unrefined powder we are talking about. It goes off our shores and is further refined in other countries. We want that to be done here. That is what New Zealand Dairies Ltd was set up to do: to take the product to its final stage, and thereby reap the benefit, in a vertically integrated fashion, to the farmers in that area. They have the money to take this company back. It was a vote of their board, which, unfortunately, got the majority to take the money from the Russians, instead of taking the money from the bank. It was a dumb decision. I cannot in any way excuse it, but that decision was taken, and this company should be bought back by the farmers in that area. They want to do it, and for that to be able to happen we need Dr Cullen and Mr Parker to turn down the application made by Nutritek to the Overseas Investment Office. We in New Zealand First take these things seriously. This is a precedent-setting decision. I ask what we will see going to overseas owners next. Will we see Synlait, AFFCO, and companies like that going to overseas owners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI will just reply to a letter that I received today\u2014I will reply formally, but I want to reply publicly\u2014from Mr Peter Lavery, the chairman of New Zealand Dairies Ltd. He said that he wants to give me a briefing on how the company was formed and how it operates. I would just tell Mr Lavery\u2014and members must excuse me if I do not pronounce the name correctly\u2014that it is not the way the company is run that New Zealand First has concerns about. It is not about any of that. It is about ownership, and only ownership. Furthermore, it is about New Zealand ownership. It is not about whether this group of farmers or that group of farmers owns this company; it is about New Zealanders owning this company. Those are the concerns we have regarding this issue, and I want to make that absolutely clear. I am not involving New Zealand First in the running of the company or criticising those who are running it in any way for that. If I was to do that, then I could criticise the previous board for letting the issue get into this state. But the matter is in the Government\u2019s hands now, and we plead with the Government to protect New Zealand\u2019s interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EExporting is what this country is about. The success of our exports decides our standard of living. The New Zealand dairy industry, as we all know, contributes in excess of 20 percent of those exports. So to set a precedent by selling off a little bit of it to another country is a bad precedent, indeed, and it should not and cannot happen, in our view. I made these statements again when Fonterra was talking about listing that company on the stock market, and we said then\u2014publicly, as well\u2014that there was no way we could hold that company in New Zealand ownership if it was to be listed on the stock market. It appears that Fonterra has backed away from that ridiculous proposal, and I say \u201CThank heavens!\u201D for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EIn talking about asset sales, I say that only one party in this Parliament has an unbroken record of opposing asset sales, and it is great to see that other parties are now coming on board with that stance. New Zealand First has been talking about the need for us to hold the wealth of our companies in New Zealand hands. Previous speakers have talked about Auckland airport today, so I do not need to go on about that, but that is just another case in question. With New Zealand Dairies Ltd, we appeal for reason and we appeal to our Ministers to keep this company in New Zealand hands. The local farmers have the money and they need to buy this company back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EJust in the last couple of minutes I have remaining and on the same sort of subject, I will address an editorial in the New Zealand Herald of 11 March, in which we had a most amazing diatribe from the editor, who said, in effect, that even if a policy of asset sales into private hands failed, it was still a success. That is absolute nonsense, and it is just absolutely outrageous and sad that a newspaper, especially one with the coverage the New Zealand Herald has, is joining in an argument that has been proven to be wrong by successive Governments. We are going to the expense of buying Air New Zealand back, we have gone to the expense of buying New Zealand\u2019s rail network, ONTRACK, back, and it seems that it will be the same situation with the railways themselves, the rolling stock. But for this newspaper to set out, as I said to my leader, a form 6 diatribe\u2014and he said that it was more like standard 6\u2014is upsetting in the extreme. If the New Zealand Herald staff think that they are helping the National Party in some way with that sort of editorial, then I have to say to them that the opposite is true. There is no will in this country for us, and whichever Government of the day, to be selling assets, and it should stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022165e0b940f3a4486b628978747b9e43a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022165e0b940f3a4486b628978747b9e43a\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am going to do something a bit radical\u2014and I hope it is within the Standing Orders\u2014in that I will actually speak about the Budget Policy Statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ae3ecef4d1f4d77b8933c26f44430e9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: It is in the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff71dd59b2434d21ae27fc4a24abf867\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Just last December the Budget Policy Statement forecast an increase in tax revenue this year. Now we know, just 3 months later, that tax revenue is actually $4 billion less than predicted. That figure of $4 billion is from the end of January, before the drought had even properly kicked in. The Budget Policy Statement forecast, once again, falling oil prices, and this week we note that oil prices are nudging $110 a barrel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWe are facing a year of significantly reduced Government revenue, with the likelihood of a US recession affecting our markets, with worse numbers still to come in when the effects of the drought work their way through, and with steeply rising oil prices, and the No. 1 priority for both of the old parties is tax cuts. Are we debating today the impacts of the Budget Policy Statement and the policy responses to it? Not really; no. I have listened to name-calling and personal denigrations from both sides of the House, and to some robust debate about who did what, when, and what they said they would do instead, but there has been nothing in the debate that takes us forward into how the country will respond to these very considerable risks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EIs this a good time to reduce Government revenue through further tax cuts, on top of the $4 billion reduction already noted, another $1.5 billion from tax cuts, and probably worse to come? Is this a good time for such a policy? Nobody is really addressing that question, either. Labour tells us that we will have tax cuts only if certain criteria are satisfied: the tax cuts will not be funded from borrowing, there will be no service cuts to fund them, and they will not be inflationary. We would sign up to that; we think those are good criteria. We say \u201CGood on you!\u201D to Michael Cullen. But it does not look as if the criteria will be met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Reserve Bank, in its Monetary Policy Statement from just last week, has already made allowances for an extra 0.3 percent inflation because of the likelihood of the generosity of the tax cuts putting more money into the economy. It says that the likelihood of tax cuts is delaying the time at which it can reduce the official cash rate and therefore interest rates, and, therefore\u2014what will follow from that\u2014the exchange rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI want the Government to tell us where that reduced $4 billion revenue and the $1.5 billion of tax cuts will come from. Just how will it be funded? Will anybody tell the House that? We desperately need capital investment in our rail system; we desperately need more investment in public transport. The Child Poverty Action Group came to the Finance and Expenditure Committee when we were looking at the Budget Policy Statement and said there are still 185,000 children living in poverty in this country because they are children from beneficiary families who do not get the in-work tax credit. Those families are facing higher food prices, higher energy prices, and higher transport costs, and the Government cannot think of anything better to spend this money on than tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Budget, which is due in a couple of months, will be interesting. Will the Government borrow, or will the sustainability deficit and the social deficit remain unfunded? National, on the other hand, has no criteria at all. It will just give tax cuts regardless. For National, tax cuts are a higher priority than public services, and it will borrow if necessary. Well, that is a clear position; at least we know where National stands. That is what National has said for a long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ELet us look at the other forecasts made in the Budget Policy Statement. One thing is becoming a really regular pattern. Every time the Budget Policy Statement comes I just flip through until I find the appropriate graph, and, sure enough, the graph does exactly the same as it did last time: it notes that oil prices have increased. They have increased throughout the whole year, in fact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263817e4ffa094902b46a3cbd03cd369a\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re absolutely right on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d39bc880c14146a9840c11fdd066f5af\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS\u003C/span\u003E: Once again, the Budget Policy Statement predicts that oil prices will fall sharply, and it is absolutely wrong on that, I say to Mr Woolerton. It notes that oil prices are around $90 and predicts they will fall to below $75. Today oil prices are nudging $110. This has been going on for at least 4 years, and during the whole of that time oil prices have been rising and Treasury has not noticed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EFour years ago the Budget Policy Statement forecast that by now oil would have fallen to $19 a barrel. Whoopee! Three years ago Treasury reckoned that by this time oil would be $40 a barrel, 2 years ago it reckoned that right now oil would be $50 a barrel, and 1 year ago it reckoned that right now oil would be $67 a barrel. Members can see that the Government is gradually adjusting to reality, but it is a long, long way behind. How long will it take it to catch up? When will it get a grip and put some resources into planning an economy that has to not only withstand climate change but become much less dependent upon oil, and when will it involve business and the public at large in that planning? Surely that is the most important economic issue facing this country. It is completely ignored by both sides of the House. Neither of the old parties shows an interest in dealing with this issue. It will be left to the Green Party\u2014and, I have to say, to the M\u0101ori Party, which has also shown interest in this issue\u2014to lead the country when we return from the next election in much larger numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022d29ea4694d684d7c998fb6b5d8fd05a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d29ea4694d684d7c998fb6b5d8fd05a4\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I have been wondering whether this Budget Policy Statement 2008 will be top of the pops on the 6 o\u2019clock news bulletin or will the really pressing issue for New Zealand be naming the MPs who are travelling on the so-called taxpayer junket to Eastern Europe\u2014and good luck to them. Meanwhile, across the world all eyes are on the controversial list published in L\u2019Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper. After 1,500 years the Vatican has added seven new sins as having appeared on the horizon of humanity. Alongside lust, gluttony, avarice, sloth, anger, envy, and pride we now have ruining the environment, carrying out morally debatable scientific experiments, social injustice that causes poverty, and the excessive accumulation of wealth by a few. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWhen I looked at this report on the Budget Policy Statement for 2008 I wondered whether Pope Benedict XVI had received an advance copy, for there are certain areas within the small print that make us query whether this Budget Policy Statement has the balance right. The M\u0101ori Party is particularly concerned at the information in the report relating to the supposed growth in household incomes. Earlier this morning the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, the Hon Parekura Horomia, issued a press release in which he said: \u201CWhat we need to do is get out into Maori communities and show whanau the real benefits of saving.\u201D In the interests of cross-party communication I would like to suggest some pointers to the Minister about this critical issue of savings. There is absolutely no point in going out there and scolding M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau, telling them what to do and how to save for a rainy day, if there is nothing in the piggy bank to start with. The reality is that the income levels for M\u0101ori come nowhere near the new deadly sin of excessive accumulation of wealth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Income Survey shows that M\u0101ori aged over 15 years earn just 73 percent of what P\u0101keh\u0101 earn. In dollar terms M\u0101ori earn $197 less a week. Although this Labour Government may crow about the participation rates for M\u0101ori growing to 68 percent, we always have to ask for the fine print\u2014what does that mean in terms of putting bread on the table? The fine print means, for example, that when on another day Labour puts out its policy on affordable housing that requires homeowners to earn at least $70,000 a year to service a mortgage in an \u201Caffordable home\u201D, the constituents in my electorate laugh\u2014or maybe they just cry. What it comes down to is who is being factored into the average. Which New Zealanders comprise low and modest-income earners? The 2006 income data for my Tamaki Makaurau electorate counts us out. Median family incomes in my electorate are just $60,000\u2014$10,000 short of meeting the grade for low and modest-income earners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWhy does all this matter? Remember the Pope\u2019s new sin: social injustice that causes poverty. A month ago the Early Childhood Council came out and agreed with the Salvation Army that the availability of early childhood education is heavily biased against poorer urban communities, adding that it was \u201Cmadness that we are not targeting more substantial resources at these children.\u201D The council\u2019s chief executive, Sue Thorne, was outraged by what she described as \u201Cpathetically little\u201D of the money given to early childhood education being targeted at the most needy of children, making the clear link between low access to early childhood education in the most needy areas with M\u0101ori children being 2.7 times more likely than P\u0101keh\u0101 children to be stood down from school for disciplinary problems, and that there were wide achievement gaps between low and high-decile schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EA fortnight after those comments, the Canterbury District Health Board\u2019s Executive Director of M\u0101ori and Pacific Health, Hector Matthews, declared that the gross disparity between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori health was largely due to socio-economic conditions. It was his analysis that more than half of all M\u0101ori are located in the poorest three deciles in Aotearoa, meaning that the cost of their primary health care for conditions like asthma could be out of their reach. M\u0101ori children were also more likely to live in cold, damp, houses and as a consequence hospital admissions for very young M\u0101ori asthmatic children were a horrific 60 percent higher than for non-M\u0101ori. So when it comes to the Minister\u2019s wisdom in showing M\u0101ori families the benefit of saving, he may like to tread a bit more carefully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EI return to the comments in the Budget Policy Statement that outline three different scenarios in just one paragraph related to the growth of household incomes. First we have the Prime Minister\u2019s promise that household incomes will increase by 25 percent over the next 4 years. The Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update indicates a real increase in wages of 2 percent over the same period. Then we have the Salvation Army forecast of 5 percent growth over 10 years. What is it: pick and choose, or the best offer on the day? There is a world of difference between 2 percent, 5 percent, and 25 percent when people are looking at whether they can afford to get the car registered or to stay living in a house where the rent has dramatically increased. It is exactly these types of questions that we, the M\u0101ori Party, will continue to raise in differentiating between the fiscal priorities of how much total income we seek from taxation and the expenditure. We have always argued that the pattern of expenditure and the allocation of moneys should be fair and determined by both signatories to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EIn determining whether we have a surplus or a deficit, it is incumbent on both parties to take account of the methodology we have promoted within the genuine progress index. Such an approach would question the scope of negative expenditure, say, on monitoring, punishing, and constraining youth as opposed to investing in their development prospects. It would throw open the question of establishing a new entity, M\u0101ori Business Aotearoa New Zealand, financed out of the wallets of M\u0101ori Trustee beneficiaries but for the benefit of Government ratings. It would ask why the Government is exerting considerable efforts into offering iwi assets such as forests to top up funding in line with the relativity clause of settlements, or making a huge deal out of new arrangements for foreshore and seabed territorial deals when in the first instance the basic foundations of either policy are fundamentally flawed. The fact that iwi have made the best of the current legal situation and have negotiated agreements under the law does not alter the fact that the law is unjust and should be repealed. It is quite consistent to support iwi agreements under the Foreshore and Seabed Act, while at the same time seeking the repeal of that Act. The M\u0101ori Party already supports iwi to get the best deal they can from the Treaty settlements process, even though it believes that the process itself breaches the Treaty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EBudgets are times for weighing up both sides of the ledger, for attaining a true and accurate record of the state of the nation, a genuine indicator of the health and well-being of people. We cannot escape the irony that the Budget Policy Statement gives lip-service to the concept of our unique national identity, and states a commitment to foster a cohesive society when, in reality, in the lives of tangata whenua the inequities are painfully apparent and ongoing. It is not acceptable, it is unjust, and it is unfair. We know that the incomes of low-income families have been allowed to erode, and that our youngest and most vulnerable citizens are continuing to live in severe or significant hardship. We agree with the Child Poverty Action Group that what we need most is a poverty prevention success story. This Budget Policy Statement is not that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4924f5d4f5c4bf497580fab72ec557c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4924f5d4f5c4bf497580fab72ec557c\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I begin by responding to some comments made by an earlier speaker about the recent forecast figures in terms of overall revenue. It is not correct to say that the most recent set of statements indicated a $4 billion shortfall in tax revenue. What those statements indicated was that the largest contributor to the shortfall was a drop-off in earnings on some of the equities that we have invested in internationally through bodies like the Earthquake Commission, the Accident Compensation Corporation, etc. The actual tax component of those figures was approximately between $400 million to $700 million dollars. To put that into its correct context in terms of overall forecasting, that is within the general margin of error. As far as we are concerned, the good news is that the tax cut programme that the Government has committed itself to, as announced in this year\u2019s Budget, can proceed, and can proceed on a staged basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EAs someone who was the Minister of Revenue the last time this country had personal tax cuts, which was over 12 years ago, I am particularly keen to see personal tax cuts advance now over a 3-year period in order to build on the business tax cuts that were introduced in last year\u2019s Budget. They will give New Zealanders a dividend for a number of the costs that they have borne over the years of economic restructuring, and they are the fruits of the progress of that restructuring that we have seen in the last few years. I am looking forward to what the Minister of Finance may outline in that regard, because the case is overwhelming. New Zealanders are increasingly saying: \u201CWe cannot carry on paying more and more and getting less and less in return, and we expect some dividend from the Government for the contribution that we have made.\u201D On a rolling basis, tax cuts would be a very powerful signal in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThere is another lesson to be learnt from our recent experience. What New Zealand tends to periodically do is go through a process of reducing taxes, and then put them aside as having done that, to be forgotten for a time in the future. A moment ago I said that the last time we had personal tax cuts was 1996; it is not good enough to have to wait over a decade for the next round. The business tax cuts, which take effect in just a few weeks\u2019 time, are the first business tax cuts in nearly two decades. It is not good enough to have to wait 20 years between business tax cuts; rather, we need to be embarking on a programme of smaller and more regular cuts so that New Zealanders can keep in touch with the rest of the international community. That is certainly something United Future is keen to focus on and will be looking to see achieved in this year\u2019s Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI will talk about a couple of other issues that are important to New Zealanders as a whole, on which there is the scope, this year, to make some significant change if the political will is there. Every day we hear stories of waiting lists for elective surgery in the public hospital sector. We have various scandals in some of our smaller district health boards. Yet at the moment around 150,000\u2014over half of all\u2014elective surgical procedures are carried out each year in the private sector and only about 2 percent of the total of those procedures are funded by public hospitals. We have the absurd situation of waiting lists in the public sector and underutilisation of capacity in the private sector. A country like New Zealand, with just over 4 million people, is simply not big enough to run and sustain two competing health systems in the way we do at the moment. There needs to be integration; there needs to be far more cooperation. What we ought to be doing\u2014and the only thing stopping us at the moment is ideology\u2014is utilising the overcapacity in the private sector to fund some of those shortages and reduce those waiting lists in the public sector. That is not an ideological statement; it is actually a statement of fact and common sense and, through astute utilisation of management and planning, it can be attained. We see that as being a far more productive way ahead than the continuation of this artificial division we have got into in recent years. The upshot of that is that the public sector would then be enabled to focus on the high-end medical procedures\u2014the very specialist acute surgery, the breakthrough research, and so on and so forth that keep us at the top end. But we cannot do that while we have the problems we have at the moment. So we want to see significant steps taken this year to allow for greater integration of the public and private health sectors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThis is not about privatising the health system or any of that sort of rhetoric; it is simply about ensuring that New Zealanders get access to the operations they need at the time they need them. You know, if we look at the statements from the Ministry of Health about its expectations, and about what a New Zealander can look forward to in terms of elective surgical procedures, we see that those are not bold, ringing, or inspiring; it is simply a statement that it will endeavour to get a person the surgery he or she requires within a 6-month period, or if it cannot do that it will explain to that person when he or she might be getting that surgery. If people are hanging out there for serious operations\u2014if they have painful hip or knee joints requiring replacement\u2014and are being told that hospitals will try to do them within 6 months, and if they cannot then be told when that might be happening, it is hardly a ringing endorsement. United Future says that New Zealanders deserve better than that, particularly elderly and vulnerable New Zealanders who do not have the luxury of saying they will queue-jump by going private. We ought to be enabling them to get access to their surgery in a timely manner, and we ought to be doing that by utilising that overcapacity in the private sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022745d59c76e104a5e80bb5e6abbd55073\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t look at us; look at them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e48ec7fa8b464656a29504135308e230\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a matter of looking at either side of the House. I know that I have support on the Opposition side of the House for this policy, but it is certainly something that can be achieved, and ought to be achieved, regardless of party lines. This is simply common sense, not ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI will say a couple of other things, because they come into the same category. Earlier today there was some criticism of the Families Commission because it announced its intention to undertake a $500,000 programme\u2014and I get very angry with our total fixation always on dollars rather than on quality\u2014about promoting parenting. Parenting is the most important task any one of us can take on. It does need to be affirmed, and it needs to be affirmed loud and clear and often and clear. Parents will tell us\u2014they have told the commission, they have told the Government, and they have told every single one of us\u2014that they feel undervalued, they feel under-appreciated. The best way we can strengthen and enhance families in New Zealand, and break down the cycle of dysfunction that so many are suffering from, is to enhance parenting, to boost parents and give them a pat on the back for what they do, and to make it clear that we, as a Parliament and a Government, stand alongside them in that important responsibility. So I applaud the commission for the work that it is doing, and I hope that as a result of this year\u2019s Budget it will be in a position to carry on with that programme, rolling out support and encouragement to New Zealand parents and giving to the parents of today and the parents of tomorrow confidence that they will be supported in the difficult task they undertake. A number of parents feel that their ability to be effective parents is compromised by the student debt their children incur. United Future is looking forward to this Budget, and to the achievement of one of our confidence and supply agreement objectives about a better deal for students through lowering the age at which the parental income test applies for student allowances. That will be a very positive step, also, that we will look forward to seeing come through as part of this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI will raise one other issue as time runs out on me, and that is the issue relating to our overall approach to climate change policy. There is general agreement around this House and around this country that we need to develop a clear and coherent response, and it is generally accepted that an emissions trading regime is the best way of achieving that response. But the difficulty we have is that the headlong rush to put that into place may get in the way of resolving a lot of the individual complexities about the particular industry sectors, be they forestry, agriculture, transport, or the household sector. I made the point when the bill was introduced\u2014and it has been borne out by subsequent events\u2014that unless we get the buy-in of those sectors for the achievement of those policy goals, the real fear is that we will end up in a situation where, firstly, the objectives cannot be obtained so there is uncertainty, and, secondly, where the only certainty is that there is ongoing uncertainty and the need for further amendment. The consequence of both of those leaves us exposed, unprotected, and not in a position as a country to make forward progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI am looking forward to this Budget giving some strategy and some direction in terms of how we will face these issues in a reasonable and coherent way, and not simply to rush headlong to put in place a regime before this Parliament rises, because it suits the Government of the day\u2019s political advantage to do so. Climate change is not a partisan political issue; it affects every single one of us, it is long term, and it will outlast us as individuals and outlast Parliaments. It needs to be approached on that basis. A strategy on climate change will not work in this country if it is simply seen as the property of the Government of the day to introduce and pass as it sees fit, and then to be amended by the next Government when it sees that what was put in place has not been working. So it will be important, as this legislation goes through, and as this Budget takes effect, that that strategy is produced in a coherent and clear manner. With those thoughts I conclude; if the Budget reflects those, New Zealand will continue down the path of reasonably steady growth that it has enjoyed over the last decade or so. But what is increasingly important now for people is that the quality of life they enjoy is recognised and becomes a greater part of the consideration of those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u00221aec7df3330f4587903d40a0dab2879b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221aec7df3330f4587903d40a0dab2879b\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I for one thought it was great that John Key has announced policy today, and says we should cap the number of bureaucrats in this country. I say that that is a great start, because when I go around the country talking to New Zealanders, I ask them what they want: \u201CDo you want extra dollars spent on your health? Do you want an extra bed, or an extra desk?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229349e9575727436aadfca23cbca683ee\u0022\u003ETim Groser\u003C/span\u003E: They want desks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225380eac1eb714fc2938720ef0bbdc7fe\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Labour Party appears to want desks, and defends desks, but New Zealanders want beds. They find it a bit ironic that sick people are piled up in hospital corridors, unable to get a bed, yet there are extra desks in the bureaucracy counting how many are waiting for a bed. That is the problem we have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EHere is the other thing: I ask people what they would like\u2014an extra doctor for their health dollar or a spin doctor? Do members know what they want? They actually want a doctor\u2014a doctor who makes them well, not one who makes them sick. When I ask whether, for their health dollars, they would like some dialysis or some policy analysis, do members know what the answer is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d882e8dff45641a39fe01e5f8fc716e6\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What is the answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022469c0cb692284238bc46633a6d497d9b\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: It is dialysis; that is what New Zealanders want for their health dollar. So I think that John Key is knocking it on the head when he says that we have had a bit too much growth in bureaucracy, and not enough growth in productivity. We have seen the dollars go in; we have not seen anything come out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E I feel that John Key has not gone quite far enough with his policy, and I guess that will be ACT\u2019s role, happy role that it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8ac21ea407241e18bd0e82763acf32f\u0022\u003ETim Groser\u003C/span\u003E: Astonishing!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ecde10cf6ca42679301044dc7edcd08\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I know that seems astonishing to the National Party, but I think we can set our sights a bit higher. When we look at the bureaucracy, our interest is not just in the number of bureaucrats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d9a23bb67ed45778c4165e5ed24622f\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Or what they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb9b61000ab4832b00755a3aafc1565\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Or what they do not do. Our interest is also in the total spending of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EWhen Labour came to office 9 years ago it said it would fix the problems of the health waiting lists. Labour members said they would put up the tax on the rich fellas\u2014knock them a bit harder. But we were not to worry because they were only 5 percent of taxpayers\u2014it turns out they are now 15 percent\u2014and Labour would then get on top of the health waiting lists. We saw a couple of billion dollars poured into the health system. We saw the billions poured in at the top, but what we have not seen is anything out the other end. When we look at the spending, we see that it has been rather poor quality. I think we have learnt from this experiment, that pouring more money into the bureaucracy does not guarantee a better result. So I think we should be going further than just capping the number of bureaucrats. What we should be doing is putting a cap on taxes and total Government spending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EI think I would also observe, as we head into this election\u2014and under the regulated period, we are in an election period right now\u2014that New Zealanders want to have a greater say over the direction of their country. They do not want to live in a world where a few people turn up to this place each week and tell them what they can say and cannot say, how they should bring up their kids, how much money they will have to pay to the Government, and how it will be spent. They want to have a say over it. They also want us as politicians to exercise the same discipline in spending the dollars we take off them in tax as they have to apply in their businesses, at their places of work, and to their weekly budgets. The way to do that is to cap total Government spending in real terms. That means, as John Key says, that we would not cut one bureaucrat, cut any budget, or cut one dollar out of the current Budget. What we would do is hold it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EWhat would happen, if we held the current Government Budget in real terms, is that we would actually have to have, as politicians, as a Parliament, as a Government, a discipline on our overall budget. What happens now is that as New Zealanders work harder and harder and produce more, we take more. We do not just take more as a dollar amount; we take more proportionately, because as they earn more they go upwards in the tax brackets. The harder New Zealanders work, the fatter and richer the Government becomes. So there is an automatic escalator, if you like, that increases Government revenue to the advantage of politicians and to the disadvantage of taxpayers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003ETaxpayers have another problem in that every now and then we come along with a new tax or a new charge, and very seldom do we eliminate them, because Governments, particularly this Government, like getting hold of the money and spending it rather than returning it to taxpayers. In fact, to hear politicians talk in this House one gets the sense that the money is the Government\u2019s and does not belong to the people who earned it. It is Government money that the Government might think to return to taxpayers, rather than money that is taken from taxpayers through the tax system and held in trust to spend to their benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003ESo if we cap Government expenditure in real terms it would put a discipline on us, because if we came up with a new bright idea for spending money, we would actually have to find out where we would get the money from, rather than just enjoy the surpluses of Kiwis working ever harder and paying ever more tax. I say that if a Government wants to spend above that cap, that is OK. I think Governments should be allowed to do that, with a simple proviso, and that is that they get taxpayers\u2019 permission and consent, because it is taxpayers\u2019 money, after all, that we are spending. So we fix the Budget as it is now, adjust it for inflation, and if we want to go above that we need a referendum to explain why and to get permission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EIf we had done that and had held Government spending in real terms since 1999, when Labour came to office, Government spending would be $9 billion less than it is now. That is a whopping sum. The budgets would be exactly what they were in 1999, adjusted for inflation and population growth. We have to cast our minds back to 1999 and ask ourselves some questions. Was our health system really that bad? Was our education system really that bad? Have we got an extra $9 billion a year worth of extra benefit? I do not believe we have. I think the money has gone in but the service has not come out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EI ask members to think of this: if we had that $9 billion and had not spent it, it would be sufficient to drop, for example, the top rate of personal tax to 20c and to drop the company rate of tax from 33c to 20c. If we had done that over 9 years we would not be looking now at a 2 percent rate of growth; we would be looking at a 5 percent rate of growth. People would have more money in their pockets because taxes would be lower, and they would have higher productivity, higher wages, and more prosperity. And picture this: a Government also has an interest in a stronger and more profitable economy because ultimately that is where our tax dollars come from. That is what we need\u2014ACT\u2019s Taxpayer Rights Bill. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u0022064de35259ba4eaea523b7adc94ff926\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022064de35259ba4eaea523b7adc94ff926\u0022\u003ETIM GROSER (National):\u003C/span\u003E For a little over 8 years now we have had to live with a political fiction this Government has been promulgating to New Zealanders. That political fiction could, I guess, be expressed in different ways, but it generally takes the form of arguments that we have never had it so good and that the Government has a coherent strategy for dealing with New Zealand\u2019s long-term structural issues. I think it is apparent, and not just to people who spend their entire lives in this Chamber watching politics 24/7, that this is becoming a bit threadbare. I think it is abundantly clear that other New Zealanders are also regarding it as threadbare. If the members of the Labour Government cannot sense there is a mood for change out there, I think they are living in a parallel universe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIt is not hard to understand why there is a mood for change. Let us just survey briefly some of the principal internal and economic factors bearing down on the state of the country and on what should be shaping the Budget in the next few weeks. I mention first of all the growth picture. We now have anaemic growth. The Reserve Bank is saying that it will be 2 percent but the risks will be on the downside. Translated from the jargon, that means, essentially, 2 percent at best. On the inflation side it is the other way around. It is above the band, with the risks on the upside, meaning, in plain language, that it is already outside the band of acceptable behaviour, and it is likely to be worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EWe have falling productivity. I think that this is the single largest issue facing New Zealand. Paul Krugman, the great American economist, said: \u201CProductivity isn\u2019t everything, you know.\u201D Then he corrected himself and said: \u201CIt is almost everything.\u201D We have falling productivity, which is a crucial issue facing this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EWe have the highest interest rates in the developed world. That is not some minor academic point; it feeds through into the actual pockets of New Zealanders. When this Government took over in 1999, it took 41 percent of the average wage to buy the average house on the median New Zealand income, using standard mortgage tables. That was a pretty hefty amount, but just manageable. We now have the second least affordable housing in the developed world. It takes 81 percent of the median wage to service the average price, on a standard table mortgage basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EOn top of all this is the statistic of real concern about the outflow of New Zealanders\u201475,000 of them last year, 80 percent of whom were under the age of 40. We have about half a million New Zealanders in Australia and 1 million New Zealanders in the South Island. About 50,000 of them have gone to Australia. If we do not arrest this departure, it will mean that more New Zealanders will be living in Australia than in the South Island in about 10 years\u2019 time. We should just think about the implications of that politically for the sustainability of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIn external terms\u2014well, we had excellent weather economically in the first 5 years of this 3-term Government, but the picture is becoming uncertain, to say the least. There is division of opinion amongst experts internationally on this, but quite clearly we are in a very difficult situation as the subprime crisis feeds its way through the world economy, and as the possibility of a US recession sits out there. Talk about the end of the golden weather! This is a very much less benign environment for New Zealand, with those internal statistics to be looked into. So it is not hard to understand why the public senses that a change is needed. If the Labour members of the House cannot sense that, they are living in a parallel universe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EI know it is very unfashionable to use rugby clich\u00E9s this year, but I will go ahead and use one anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204d296f0391449d9b00faae8a7de49d9\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Go on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022336cb696f6d444ea840a5f8868be5e69\u0022\u003ETIM GROSER\u003C/span\u003E: I will; thank you, colleague. I think when the history of this 3-term Labour Government is written, it will literally be a tale of two halves. The first half is the period from late 1999 to\u2014well, we could argue about this\u2014probably late 2004, when the Labour Government was playing with a stiff and favourable breeze behind its back. Labour inherited power and had an arrogant, cocky, \u201Cwe won, you lost\u201D attitude, with the ideological disposition to deny the reasons why so much wind was in the sails of the New Zealand economy that it inherited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e924cd05aeb84918b3bcae4333581993\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It was all their good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022222aba83743d436b8d425e9747b714e6\u0022\u003ETIM GROSER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014apparently New Zealand woke up one day with a Labour Government in power, and everything turned rosy! That is unbelievable political fiction, when we know, for example\u2014off the top of my head and going back to my favourite point about productivity\u2014that the average rate of labour productivity growth in the 3 years from 1997 to 2000 was 3.5 percent. That was absolutely stellar, and had we been able to maintain that type of labour productivity growth, particularly with rising participation rates coming through in the labour input side, this country would indeed be moving back into the first half of the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003ESo we had the first half with the wind behind the Labour Government\u2019s back, but the second half has not been so rosy. The Government has sat there and milked the economy for everything it could, with essentially mediocre policy frameworks and nothing, I would argue, that was absolutely disastrous or catastrophic. I do not use adjectives like that to describe Labour Government policies, which are much more akin to \u201Cdeath by a thousand cuts\u201D material. The chickens, economically, are starting to come home to roost, and politically, I believe, they will well and truly come home to roost in a little over 6 months\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EAll of this has, of course, been masked by forward-looking rhetoric. Those members who have followed the debates over the last 9 years will remember that, firstly, we had the knowledge wave economy. What could be better than the knowledge wave economy? We then lost track of that, so we got into the growth in innovation framework\u2014the \u201CGIF\u201D framework. I remember that inside the bureaucracy we could get any type of expenditure through the system as long as we said it was part of the \u201CGIF\u201D framework. Then that fell by the wayside, and we had economic transformation as the latest clothing we were asked to wear. And now we have sustainability. We cannot have a statement from the Prime Minister that does not have sustainability mentioned any less than 24 times in a 10-minute speech. I do not have any problem at all with any of that rhetoric\u2014it all sounds like the right stuff\u2014but what is it backed with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EI was pleased to hear Rodney Hide refer to our leader John Key\u2019s speech today. In the middle of John Key\u2019s speech there was a statistic that I think is truly awesome: in the 8\u00BD years of this Government there have been 250 strategy documents. All of them are beautifully written, with polished pictures of happy Kiwis riding bikes through the pine tree forest\u2014you name it, it is all there\u2014but it is absolute rhetoric. They are not worth the dust now covering them on the bookshelves of Government departments throughout Wellington. I must say that Wellington is having a golden time in terms of rentals, if one happens to be lucky enough to own a commercial property here. But I am afraid that the first half of the summer is well and truly over. The summer of very favourable external and internal economic conditions\u2014we had stellar productivity growth just at the point of political change, and high economic growth from 1992 onwards, with inflation falling dramatically and unemployment falling dramatically\u2014is all turning a little bit darker now in its second half, which I would argue started in late 2004 or perhaps in early 2005. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EI have to worry a little bit about a couple of things that happened last week in our political debate. I thought that the happiest man in New Zealand politics last week was Michael Cullen. He was partly happy because he discovered a deficit for the first time. Given the restructuring of the New Zealand financial accounts, it would be easier to find a yeti in the Himalayas than to find a deficit in the New Zealand fiscal envelope. But Michael Cullen finally found his yeti last week\u2014he found a deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222184ea663c8d4691a9a447f62ad97dfe\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: A hairy monster!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274b1a4544e2b4282b90152352b81f5a4\u0022\u003ETIM GROSER\u003C/span\u003E: It was quite a hairy monster, really. It was called \u201COBERGAL\u201D. Just when we were getting used to \u201COBERAC\u201D, along comes \u201COBERGAL\u201D. They sound a little bit like the names of Viking maidens, but then we know that the Labour Party likes Scandinavian myths. In fact, these are accounting identities. I was very pleased that Peter Dunne understands how irrelevant this mythical deficit is, when it is to be used as a metric for the fiscal envelope for tax cuts. Actually, Peter Dunne understands perfectly how irrelevant it is, because when we strip out the revaluations as a consequence of the collapse in world equity markets through this subprime crisis, we find there is not a deficit at all and there is still scope for proper, comprehensive reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022 data-id=\u0022c56c58f8485f49c3978e8e1427e6c8be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c56c58f8485f49c3978e8e1427e6c8be\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E This is an interesting debate, following on from question time earlier when I watched the Leader of the Opposition questioning the Prime Minister as if he cared about low-paid families and worried about them being able to buy butter and cheese. He is the man who said on 20 December: \u201CWe would like to see wages drop.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EUnfortunately for the Leader of the Opposition\u2014the man who would be the Prime Minister\u2014that statement was recorded by a young man, with a tape-recorder, who was sitting in his vicinity. The young man who recorded Mr Key\u2019s comments is called a journalist, and journalists are inclined to write things down and print them in newspapers. Of course, Mr Key said he was only joking\u2014that was his excuse\u2014and that he actually wanted to bring down wages in Australia. We are still waiting for the National Party\u2019s policy on how it will lower wages in Australia. We are very interested in hearing what that is, because it was Mr Key\u2019s second excuse. He said that it was a joke; it was about bringing down wages in Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EThat same man, Mr Key, expressed concern in the House today on behalf of average families and asked how they cope with the cost of living. When we read the list of flip-flops and changes we can understand why this man is saying these sorts of things. Members should contrast that with this Labour Government\u2019s actual record. Let us look at the graphs that show what real household incomes have grown by, and let us look at the 7 years that this graph I am holding deals with. It is a real household income graph that shows that real household income has increased by 25 percent under this Government\u2019s policies. You see, we have policies for the future. One need only look at the record of the last 7 or 8 years to see that they have worked. One need only look at that statistic alone\u2014real household incomes have increased by 25 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EThe National Party leader said: \u201CWe would like to see wages drop.\u201D Well, I can understand that. He does not like the fact that we have got wages up. He would like to drop wages. When that got reported\u2014and he did not like it being reported\u2014and he could not get the media to go away, he had to contact the publishers of the newspaper to get them to tell the journalists to retract it. What we have now is a letter from the workers\u2014the journalists\u2014who work for the New Zealand Herald to their boss, to the owner, saying that this is unacceptable. I agree with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EI was a journalist, and you, Madam Speaker, have family members who were journalists and who were proud of their craft and proud of their principles. One of those principles, which is longstanding in a free and open democracy, is that the owner or the publisher does not interfere in editorial freedom. That is exactly what the New Zealand Herald journalists are telling the paper\u2019s owners right now, because of John Key and the National Party standing over the owners to get his words retracted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EWell, John Key might like to retract a whole lot of words, because there are a few here. In July 2007 John Key said: \u201CWe wouldn\u2019t have sent troops to Iraq.\u201D, and many people reading those words, which I have written down in front of me, would say: \u201CThat bloke has the right ideas.\u201D He said he would not send troops to Iraq. Who could disagree with that? This Government made that decision and New Zealanders are proud of it. It has proved to be the absolutely correct decision, as we see Governments in the UK, the US, and Australia struggling with their decisions around that issue. So one would have to say that that was an excellent statement made by John Key. He said in July 2007 that he would not have sent troops to Iraq. But whoops! In September 2003 Mr Key said that New Zealand was missing in action during the invasion of Iraq. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EHe changed his views, conveniently. Was that a joke, or was he talking about somebody else? Was he talking about the Australians, as he was with the wage gaffe he made? Then he said we should have had New Zealand troops in Iraq\u2014or maybe he was talking about the Australians. Maybe it was really a joke and he did not know that somebody was next to him with a microphone and a tape-recorder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EIt is the same when we look at the words he spoke on 6 November. He said he firmly believed in climate change and always had. Well, that is a sound statement. That is decisive leadership from a man who would be the Prime Minister. But whoops! Somebody was there with a tape-recorder in May 2005 when John Key said that climate change is a complete and utter hoax. Can this man make up his mind? Is he joking? Is he talking about New Zealand or Australia? We have just heard Tim Groser talking about a parallel universe. Well, he described his leader very well, because in May 2005 John Key said climate change is a complete and utter hoax, but in November 2006 he said he is and always has been a firm believer in climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EThe list goes on. This is a very good statement: \u201CWe will keep interest-free student loans for tertiary students.\u201D, said John Key just a month or two ago. But in 2005 he said that interest-free loans were an unaffordable and irresponsible cost to the country. That was the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s opinion just 3 years ago. He said in October 2003 that the anti-nuclear legislation is bad news for economic growth and for our job market. But by September 2007 he said that National will stick with the anti-nuclear legislation. That was said by Mr Key, whom we are allowed to call slippery because everybody in the country is calling him slippery. Every piece in every paper I have read in the last few weeks has called him \u201CSlippery Mr Key\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b887c519d1344cafa1afd0b89d80419a\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Why do they call him slippery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288b2cf8fe00741f8bd024f34f1b2c275\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, because one hears about those sorts of things. And it is a real problem when, as a local member of Parliament, he comes in here and asks question after question\u2014and he gets his man down the back from Whangarei to ask them if he has not got the energy himself\u2014about affordable housing. We have just heard about that from the previous National speaker too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EWhen we made sure that the land in Hobsonville was retained so that we could in fact have affordable housing\u2014at the time, I was Minister of Housing\u2014it was outside the urban limit, so we could not immediately start building on it. We had to wait for the proper processes. It was described by John Key as economic vandalism. He said National was committed to cancelling it. That was said in June 2006 by the local member for Hobsonville, one John Key. But then \u201CSlippery John Key\u201D said in February 2008 that he is in favour of the affordable housing that might be built there. In fact, I heard the interview where he was criticising the Labour Government for not getting on and doing it quickly enough. It was economic vandalism back in June 2006, and now we are being criticised for not doing it fast enough! Well, it is no wonder they call him slippery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EJohn Key cannot actually hold a position on some things for more than 12 hours. He told the media at 7 o\u2019clock one morning that National had no firm date for Treaty settlements\u2014absolutely no firm date. He was on national television telling everybody that National did not have a firm date on Treaty settlements, but by 5 p.m. that night he had gone back, talked to the people in his office, and they had said: \u201CBut John, we do have a policy. We do have a date.\u201D At least on that occasion he was big enough to say he got it wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EHow much more does he need to get wrong before people realise that he is a person who, if put in charge of a Government, could not keep the same opinion for 12 hours? He could not understand a brief from the people who work in his office and tell him what to say. He could not get out of the fact that someone had a microphone next to him when he said he wanted New Zealand workers\u2019 wages to drop, so he went and heavied the owners of the newspaper\u2014who have been running a campaign about freedom of speech and who use their paper every month and every week to have freedom of speech\u2014and the owners of that newspaper stood over the journalists and told them they had to retract what they wrote. The owners were at the beck and call of the National Party. I want to know what self-respecting journalist in this country would put up with that and sit back and accept it. Thank goodness the New Zealand Herald journalists have said: \u201CEnough.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EIn my last comments I will talk about the latest announcement by the National Party on public servants. National has said it will take an \u201Cenough is enough\u201D approach. It sounds a bit like the Destiny Church\u2014it was the Exclusive Brethren last time, now it is the Destiny Church. National says that enough is enough, and John will take the axe to them. Oh, but not really. National will just go and have a look and see whether there are too many public servants doing too little. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022279899e602b54f6f84e26fb43b4238f4\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: They won\u2019t tell us which ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c96bb6bd0fa4f9fb84465c1e33dc9bb\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: National will not take one out, it said. But it will look and see whether it can have a sinking-lid policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EWhen we became Ministers in a new Government, we found that there was no capacity to do the work that was required to figure out how we could overcome an infrastructure problem in New Zealand because National had not built any roads in Auckland for a whole 9 years. National had not spent any money on public transport, and it did not have policies on anything that would in fact make our economy grow. So \u201Cslippery\u201D is probably too polite a term for the nonsense we hear coming out of the mouths of Opposition members, and particularly from their leader, John Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab9a4791f3054884934f581bdc8f6723\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next speaker I advise the House that this speaking slot, the twelfth slot, is split into two speeches of 5 minutes. I will ring the bell at 4 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdcca2fc85aa4c90bed8d37bcf0a1b89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdcca2fc85aa4c90bed8d37bcf0a1b89\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Members of the public will be highly interested to know that that was Mark Gosche, a senior member of the Labour Party, who spoke then. He is not only a senior member of the Labour Party but a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. The reason I know that is not only that I am on the select committee myself but also that Mr Gosche\u2019s name is in Appendix A of the Budget Policy Statement, which is in fact the reason for this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThis debate is to discuss the Budget Policy Statement, and one would have thought that Mr Gosche, being a senior member, would focus on the Budget Policy Statement and on the wonderful accolades he would be giving on behalf of the Labour Government. But did he talk about the Budget Policy Statement once? Did he discuss the amazing things it is doing? Not once. Why would one not take that opportunity to discuss one of the Government\u2019s key documents\u2014to advocate for the wonderful things the Government is doing? Why would one not take that opportunity? Whom did Mr Gosche spend the entire time focusing on? He spent it focusing on National\u2019s leader. You know, when a senior Government politician spends his entire 10-minute speech focusing on the Leader of the Opposition instead of on a document that should be a key document for the entire Labour Government, setting the vision for it, then we know the Government is in trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E Why did Government members not focus on that document? Here are a few questions that show the key reasons for that. Why, after 8 years of a Labour Government, are we paying the second-highest interest rates in the developed world? Later on I will explain why that is the case, when I focus on some of the expenditure listed in this document. Why is the wages gap between New Zealand and Australia and other parts of the world getting bigger and bigger? Mr Gosche did not focus on that issue. Why does Labour give tax cuts only in election year? Tax cuts are budgeted for in these accounts, but Mr Gosche did not want to focus on that. He focused on the National Party leader. Why are grocery and petrol prices going through the roof? Mr Gosche did not want to talk very much about that, either. Why, as Mr Groser asked, are hard-working Kiwis unable to afford to buy their own home? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b937df166fb74d82bc9b0e25ec0960ab\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d0a82be015c4aa4bb791e7b6ba087ae\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Because the cost has moved from 41 percent of the average take-home pay to 81 percent. In no way did Labour speakers want to focus on that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EWhy, when Labour has an aspiration that New Zealand will become carbon neutral, are our greenhouse gas emissions continuing to rise at an alarming rate? Government members did not want to focus on that, but the Budget Policy Statement has key issues around the cost of Kyoto now and going forward, and around what needs to be budgeted for. And why has the health system not improved, despite billions of dollars extra being poured in? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe answers to those key questions are revealed in this Budget Policy Statement seriously, and if we look at page 36 and go forward to the summary of financial indicators, we see costs going up and up. That is why that senior Government member did not want to focus on the Budget Policy Statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister of Finance, Michael Cullen, came into office in 1999 he had high aspirations about putting a lid on spending. He made a virtue of declaring that the Labour Government would achieve the lowest level of spending, as a proportion of GDP, since 1978. Yet by 2005 the ratio of spending to GDP was higher than in 1999-2000, when the Government came into office. Although Dr Cullen had good intentions at the start, core Crown expenses have risen significantly under this Government and have continued to rise. The Budget Policy Statement shows a $53 billion spend for 2007, projected to be $70 billion in 2012. On top of that, core Crown expenses are expected to increase by almost another percentage point of GDP. Expenditure is going through the roof. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn the remaining minutes I want to focus on another set of accounts that were obtained in January. They show how much expenditure the Government has taken on. This is a year-on-year perspective; it is a comparison with last year. The January 2008 accounts, a full year on from those for January 2007, show total core Crown expenses have gone up from $29 billion last year to $32 million\u2014a 9.7 percent increase. Inflation is floating at around 4 percent a year. The key expenses, like those for core Government services, are up from $1.2 billion to $1.7 billion\u2014up by 33 percent in just 1 year. This Government is incurring massive increases in spending, and it is no wonder that Mr Gosche did not want to focus on this Budget Policy Statement but spent his entire speech focusing on John Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022702b8b013bfc4a809087f360194e0797\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022702b8b013bfc4a809087f360194e0797\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What a typical Tory speech that was from Chris Tremain. There was no policy, and not a single thing about what he might do if he ever got a whiff of the Treasury benches. There was nothing. I say to that member that if ever National manages to grab the Treasury benches, he may well learn how easy it is to pick holes in everything and how much harder it is to be a serious Government planning for the future of one\u2019s country and planning to make sure that all citizens are looked after\u2014in their youth, middle age, and old age. That is the challenge of a real Government, and that is what this Government is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI put my support behind the announcement made yesterday of $700 million up front\u2014and with interest added to it, it will be nearly a billion dollars\u2014being put up by this Government for research in pastoral and food sciences. That is the single biggest investment we have had in this area. It is an area that we know we have to get smarter in. It is a risk area for New Zealand in the future. As other countries come on with high-volume low-cost products, we need to be doing things better than everyone else and we need the science to back it up. This money will go a long way, and not just that; it will be matched\u2014dollar for dollar\u2014by industry. Two billion dollars over the next 10 to 15 years is an extraordinary investment in the science capability of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Food and Beverage Sector Taskforce that New Zealand needed to do better in this area. We heard from the Pastoral 21 research consortium that we needed to do better in this area, and last year, at the Primary Industries 2020 Summit run by the Hon Jim Anderton in Christchurch, we heard again that this was an area that industry felt we really needed to get serious about. That is a forum, by the way, that the National Party opposed. National asked why money was being spent on the forum, because, of course, National does not think it needs to talk to anyone else about these issues. National thinks it knows everything; it knows best, and it does not need to listen to the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThat is extremely evident when we see that the National Party is opposing this funding. Every single other industry group in the sector supports the funding; every single other industry group in the sector says it is long overdue. In the words of Dr Andrew West, the head of AgResearch, it is a paradigm shift in the way we fund science. I welcome that. I want the people of New Zealand to know that the National Party has said it will scrap this fund. John Key said, on Radio New Zealand: \u201CNew Zealand does not need such a fund.\u201D I suggest that National might want to go out and talk to the rest of the industry\u2014the agricultural, pastoral, and food sector\u2014and to the people on the ground about what they think they need. I know what the answer will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ENational has announced another policy, which my colleague Mark Gosche touched on briefly. National has said it will cut the number of public servants. We have been hearing for a long time\u2014about 9 years\u2014that National will fund tax cuts by cutting the fat out of the public sector. It will cut the number of public servants. We heard a speech made by John Key today, who stood up intending to be forceful. He was asked whether he would cut the number of public servants, and he said: \u201CAh, we don\u2019t know. Maybe not; we\u2019re not sure. We\u2019re going to review it, then we might look at it, then we might focus-group it a little bit, and see kind of where the public wind is shifting to. Then we might keep numbers exactly the same, but then we might cap them.\u201D That was interesting, given that every single member of the National Party caucus is currently travelling around the country telling people that their projects will be picked up and paid for by Government departments. I do not know who National thinks does that work. I think, like Mr Tim Groser said, they think it happens in some parallel universe where they put an idea up and somehow, magically, the policy forms itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAlso it is important to point out what the Prime Minister mentioned in question time today. National talks about the growth of public servants under this Labour-led Government, but 85 percent of them are front-line public servants. We are talking about doctors, teachers, nurses, police, and social workers. If the New Zealand public think that those jobs are not under threat, then they need to think again. History tells us that this slippery National Party will say anything to get into Government and then do exactly the opposite once it gets there. I ask members opposite to name the types of public servants that they think are useless and do not need to be there. They should name those who are sucking off the public teat, not doing any work, and not providing any benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222480b1a9802e412fa4cbac6df2197357\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: We said we\u2019d cap them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f73ac1be116c4b8cba04df18a705be74\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Tremain should name which ones. He should get beyond the rhetoric, stop being slippery, and name the public servants that National thinks do not need to be there and are completely superfluous. Maybe they are the people in our public hospitals who are booking operations so that the doctors and nurses can get on with being doctors and nurses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI am proud of this Budget Policy Statement. I am proud of the work Michael Cullen has done. This country is in fine hands and it will continue to be, beyond this election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226265382f9ac34f04852f318729db389f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the House take note of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 2; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220739f1f38a794db9991d9ea81216de81\u0022\u003EWaitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e67d3ce7d13a4c2ea7aeb07a7abd21e2\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000462\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 20 February 2008.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002263dadd00dd9c4c5a877b8e33b093b6ed\u0022\u003EPart 3  Miscellaneous provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u002206eeb95b4456472d8dd475ae07f88b92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206eeb95b4456472d8dd475ae07f88b92\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on Part 3 of the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill, which discusses, amongst other things, local authorities having to monitor and report on certain matters relating to the heritage area. I will speak a bit more about that monitoring and about how that reporting can happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EOne of the concerns that National wants to raise at this time is around local area plans, local area management plans, and long-term council community plans. Just so everyone is clear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eb47b7865d24e6580a6e8b593466eb8\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s too confusing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222af7f3ab2cfc4bc499f637f716f9b2c6\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is a little bit confusing, as my colleague says. When it comes to reporting, one of the important things for the community is that it has spent a lot of time on long-term council community plans. Those plans have been done independently and under huge consultation. I commend the councils for the work they have done with the community to come to some sort of agreement as to what it wants in a long-term plan and how it can be achieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWhen this bill was first introduced it stated that the councils would have local area management plans, which were then changed to local area plans. Now we have local area plans instead of local area management plans\u2014just so we are all clear. How the local area plans will be reported on and how they fit in with the long-term council community plans is what I think should be of importance to the region. What is of most concern is that the community has already worked out what it wants in a 10-year plan. Members of the community have already set down what direction they want. They have voted in an appropriate council, and their concern is how what they want will actually be achieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EIt is quite interesting; I was reading a press release from the Waitakere City Council on 10 March\u2014just 2 days ago. The council is quite clearly talking about its budget deliberations. Councillor Janet Clews is quoted throughout the press release. She is a councillor whom I have a lot of respect for, and she has earned a lot of respect throughout the community. She is chair of Waitakere City Council\u2019s long-term council community plan and annual plan special committee. She talks about budget deliberations and about what needs to be done over a period of time. The press statement quite clearly states: \u201CWhile the Annual Plan sets the council\u2019s budget for the coming financial year the long-term council community plan (LTTCP) outlines the direction and spending intentions for the next 10 years.\u201D She then says: \u201CIt is important that the public know this is the third year of the LTCCP \u2026 We are reviewing work and projects that have already been consulted on and agreed, so we can\u2019t deviate a long way from that plan.\u201D The council cannot deviate a long way from the plan that was decided on in 2006. Yet it now wants to introduce a law that will deviate from the plan. It is so concerned about this issue that it will deviate from the long-term council community plan, which it spent so much time consulting its community on. That seems absolutely ludicrous, and National certainly has questions around how it can be possible and how it can make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ELooking at how the councils will report back\u2014under Part 3\u2014I found it ironic to be reading an email from our mayor, Bob Harvey. He is a good man and a gutsy man, and always puts a smile on someone\u2019s face, even though he is a former president of the party on the other side of the House\u2014but good on him. He says point-blank in the email that ONTRACK owns this land, that it tends to be a law unto itself, and that there is nothing we can do. The council is trying in this bill to have legislation that will state point-blank what people can do with private land, but, in another breath, the mayor is turning round and saying about ONTRACK, with which the community has a huge issue with regards to the proposed railway maintenance depot: \u201CSorry, we cannot do anything. It\u2019s private land. It\u2019s not owned by us.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221664432101e54266af63a3e361b17cd7\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a double standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3689a5b5d684e969a784f35790fcc82\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is; it is a complete and utter double standard. It is hypocrisy at its best when the council turns round and says it cannot do anything about something that the community does not want, that will actually disturb residents in a local area, because it is on private land owned by ONTRACK, yet in the other breath\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022094b4d0d3bee44d4a545b887d63ddd31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022094b4d0d3bee44d4a545b887d63ddd31\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a brief call. The first thing I will do is acknowledge Janet Clews, as Paula Bennett did. I quite agree that she is a very well-respected councillor, as indeed are all councillors in Waitakere. I point out to the Committee that all of the councillors were returned at the last election, and there was overwhelming support from those councillors for the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EIn Part 3 the clauses are actually quite clear and simple. It is a little annoying that Paula Bennett tries to confuse matters in this Committee, but that seems to be her strategy. The first clause is about local authorities having to monitor and report on certain matters relating to the heritage area. That is about accountability. It is saying that we want a report on the state of the environment in the heritage area, we want accountability across the councils, and we want to make sure that the reporting is done every 5 years. I think that is a very sensible, common-sense thing to do. Why are they doing it? Because they are committed to ensuring that the ranges and the heritage area are preserved now and for generations to come. They will make a commitment to checking that progress every 5 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe second clause of Part 3 is about reassurance. Clause 29 is about the preservation of existing rights. We have heard many, many people from the National Party\u2014and I am sorry, I know that Dail Jones has just recently joined the House, but unfortunately Dail seemed to be quite confused as well\u2014banging on and talking a load of rubbish. It is quite clear that the bill does not limit or affect any title or right to ownership. That makes a mockery of the claims made by Nick Smith and Paula Bennett that the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill was confiscation by stealth. As I was driving through the beautiful ranges of Waitakere, the electorate I live in and am very happy to represent, I saw\u2014very overgrown by bush, I have to say\u2014one of those \u201Cconfiscation by stealth\u201D notices, to use the Nick Smith line, still sitting on one of the fences. I think this preservation of existing rights definitely gives reassurance to the people of Waitakere who, like me, are fortunate enough to own land in the ranges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EClause 30, \u201CTransitional provisions\u201D, is about consistency. The clause says quite clearly that any applications for resource consent for an activity in the area that have been lodged and not yet determined will continue to be considered as if the heritage area legislation had not been enacted. People in Waitakere can be assured that they are not going to be gazumped. Unlike what Opposition members have said, nothing is going to be imposed on them, and if they are part way through a process, that process will continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EPart 3 is made up of a number of simple clauses, but those clauses add up to accountability, reassurance, and consistency. I commend those clauses to the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022 data-id=\u002290cf57bf0ae0492fa6f980aae8d9a5c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290cf57bf0ae0492fa6f980aae8d9a5c6\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This bill is about the Waitakere Ranges of some 17,000 hectares. The land is currently owned by the people of Auckland, and it cannot be dealt with in any way, regardless of a single word that is contained in this bill. But as we are owners of that land, we will preserve it. We do not need Wellington interfering in our affairs. I have to congratulate Lynne Pillay on ably trying to carry out the work of the Waitakere City Council, as any local member must, but we do not need the Waitakere City Council coming to Wellington to get Wellington\u2019s authority to do things in the city. In Auckland we own the Waitakere Ranges Regional Park and we do not want Wellington interfering in our business. That is No. 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThis bill is really about the remaining 10,000 hectares that are owned by private people. As I said last time, this bill is socialism by stealth. This bill is the Waitakere City Council stealing the property rights of those people in that area. If we ever want to see confused legislation, Part 3 sums it all up. In Parts 1 and 2, various rights were taken from the owners of the 10,000 hectares. What does Part 3 do? Clause 28A(2) states that the local authorities must jointly produce a report. The local authorities are the Auckland Regional Council, the Rodney District Council, and the Waitakere City Council. What happens if they cannot agree? They have to produce a report in 5 years. What happens if they cannot agree in 5 years and there is no report? What happens? Nothing will happen. What penalty is on them to produce a report? There is nothing. Clause 28A(2) is absolutely meaningless. Can members believe that all the members of the Auckland Regional Council, all the members of the Rodney District Council, and all the members of the Waitakere City Council can ever be unanimous and agree on an issue? Clause 28A(2) is doomed. It is meaningless. It is not worth the paper it is written on. It cannot happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EClause 29, \u201CPreservation of existing rights\u201D,\u2014what does that mean? It is a meaningless clause. We know that anyone who has rights now, has those rights preserved by law. We do not need it in this bill. We are just stating the obvious. The clause is superfluous. Everyone who has a right now, continues to have that right. However, that right is now subject to whatever is in this bill. This bill, in a resource management consent, restricts those people\u2019s rights to, for example, put on a garage, to extend their home, or do anything like that, because this bill restricts development. That is what this bill is all about. [Interruption] The member agrees with me. She agrees with me that this bill restricts development. From the way I look at it, that does restrict our rights as such but it does not restrict our title to the land. We still own the land. We all know that. That is why we do not need clause 29. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EAs far as clause 30 is concerned, unfortunately if anyone had a real feel for the area and wanted to do what Lynne Pillay wants to do, clause 30 destroys that. I believe that people who are true developers, who want to rip into the lower lands, will have lodged their applications with the council by now. I say to Lynne Pillay not to shake her head. She should be nodding her head. They will be advised by their lawyers to get in there, to lodge their applications\u2014to make sure they lodge any kind of application they can\u2014so that they can get stuck into the lowlands and do whatever is possible. In that sense, clause 30 gives the game away. It will not protect the lowlands, if that is what this bill intends to do. Clause 30, as the member Lynne Pillay has indicated, will not affect anyone who has lodged a current application. She is nodding her head in agreement now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EAs a lawyer myself, I say that if I had been acting for people who wanted to develop the area\u2014and I am not, so I have no personal interest whatsoever\u2014and who can still now, before this bill is passed, want to put on a garage or want to cut land up into 1,000-metre or 1,500-metre blocks, I would be telling them to get stuck in and lodge their application now. The transitional provisions say they are protected and they can go ahead and do everything they like, because once they lodge their application they are saved. This bill and the transitional provisions protect them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EIt is confused legislation. New Zealand First opposes it\u2014not only because it is socialism by stealth, but it has been badly drafted; it is contradictory drafting. There are clauses in it, even these three clauses we have here, that are contradictory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4d33484c4954098b7aac790a1dd8632\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4d33484c4954098b7aac790a1dd8632\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY (National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chairperson, what a delight it was to bow to you as I walked into the Chamber. It is a small world, and can I say well done. [Interruption] I am looking forward to it. I want to be the first person she chucks out of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faba46981e0c4bc3a62844c27d2fe247\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll second that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c309df4da84b16924084be94d3611e\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure the member will. I want to comment on clauses 28 to 30 and in particular focus on clause 28. A word was used by the member beside you, Madam Chairperson, and I think it was \u201Csimple\u201D. Lynne Pillay said the clauses in Part 3 are simple. We have to watch out for the danger in the simple words. I quote from clause 28A: \u201C(1) The local authorities must jointly monitor\u2014(b) the progress \u2026\u201D. Then it states: \u201C(2) The local authorities must jointly produce, and each adopt, a report on the monitoring \u2026\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EI suppose the concern I have is that if we are to monitor and produce reports in 5 years\u2019 time, then we actually have to have a starting point. We have to have a benchmark. We have to have a report already done that sets out all of the conditions, the status, and the how to and where to of all of the objectives that the councils will have to monitor. I have not heard of, seen, or heard talk of those reports being done. We are asking these councils to fund and do these reports. They have a monitor. Have they had that discussion? Have the councils had a talk about how they will do this? Have they measured how many trees are there now? Will there be more trees or fewer trees? What is it that they are monitoring? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the words\u2014and the previous speaker talked about them\u2014they are very big and bold statements. How do we monitor the protection of a \u201Clandscape of \u2026 local significance\u201D? What is the starting point? How do we monitor \u201Crestoring and enhancing degraded landscapes\u201D? Now, does that mean that if a landscape that only has 52 trees on it has 42 trees on it in 5 years\u2019 time, that is really bad, but if it has 110 trees on it in 5 years\u2019 time, that is really great? We do not have a benchmark\u2014the key performance indicators. The concern I have is that I do not know where all that goes, because there is so much in this bill that is very broad, all-encompassing, and very much able to be read by lawyers in 25 different ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we have to cost the effect of this bill. Somewhere along the line these councils involved have to put in their annual plans what this impact will be on the ratepayer. I have seen no figures so I do not know. I know that the cost to the ratepayer of bringing this bill into the House must be phenomenal. There have been some lawyers involved, big time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133d8412adb44432b8778e13eb3907d1\u0022\u003EDail Jones\u003C/span\u003E: $2 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022990435bed56a42088770c4ee32625c93\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY\u003C/span\u003E: It would not surprise me. Was that taken through an annual plan? I do not know. I suppose where I am going with this, relating to clause 28, is: has this work been put out in front of the ratepayers? Is it in the annual plan? Is it in the LTCCP, the long-term council community plan\u2014just to chuck in some letters, like my colleague Paula Bennett did? We have to watch the simple pieces of legislation. The MP Lynne Pillay says the bill is simple. It is simple, but it could be bloody expensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u00226d8ba976b1594c7b8b5d088301712a55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d8ba976b1594c7b8b5d088301712a55\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (Independent):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to Part 3, but before I do, Madam Chairperson, I offer my congratulations to you on assuming the position of Assistant Speaker. I know that you will do a great job, and I must say it is very nice to have a Wellingtonian in the Chair for the first time since I came into Parliament in 2002. I offer my congratulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ELet me say at the outset that I am pleased to be able to make a speech on this part of the bill, because my parliamentary duties prevented me from speaking when the Committee stage of this bill was last debated in Parliament a few weeks ago. I have taken a deep interest in this bill, including accepting an invitation to address a public meeting in Waitakere City on the issues it raises. I strongly oppose the bill. I have voted against it and will continue to vote against it at every stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EClause 29, \u201CPreservation of existing rights\u201D, in Part 3 refers to \u201Cany title or right to ownership of any land or natural resources within the heritage area, whether conferred by enactment, [of Parliament or] at common law, \u2026\u201D. If I were to ask the proponents of this bill why it is necessary to include such a clause, they would tell me that it is to protect private property rights. Their answer, however, is wrong. The provisions of this bill, as set out extensively and in the lofty words in Parts 1 and 2, apply equally and without distinction to both public and private land within the heritage area. As Dail Jones has outlined, 58 percent of the land in this area, which is now the Waitakere Ranges heritage area, is private land. The majority of it is private land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThat central issue is the major defect in this entire bill\u2014the fact that it applies not just to public land, which would be perfectly acceptable, but also to private land. All of the lofty sounding words contained in the bill refer not just to public land, but, as clause 29 reveals, they also refer to private land, and that is entirely inappropriate. The preservation of heritage areas for the common good of all people is great. If this bill referred just to public land, as I mentioned, it would have my support. As it is, clause 29 does not strip title and ownership entirely from the people who now own the land, but it is still entirely inappropriate to have private land of this sort in the bill, because Kiwis in Waitakere will now be subject to the public land impositions in the bill, even on their private land. Private homes, gardens, lawns, backyards, or front paddocks should not be included in a heritage area unless we are prepared to fully and justly compensate those private owners. Instead, in this bill, we strip their rights to the use and enjoyment of their homes and then tell them not to worry because they will retain ownership. That misses the point and it is wrong. That is unjust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ETo treat private and public lands as if they are one and the same thing simply will not do. This bill creates a wedge in the door. If it applies to private land in Waitakere today, then why not to my private land in Wellington tomorrow, to another person\u2019s land in Christchurch the day after, or to somebody\u2019s private land on the West Coast the day after that? This bill sets a very, very unfortunate precedent in terms of New Zealand law. By all means, we should protect the Waitakere Ranges. That will be great for the people of Waitakere, of Auckland, of the nation, and internationally. But let us decide, as a principle, that this measure should be limited to publicly owned land, or we must decide to do the decent thing and pay compensation to protect and safeguard the rights of the private landowners involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u0022551beeb85156448b98f5327021455495\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022551beeb85156448b98f5327021455495\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with great pride to support the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill. I feel well qualified to comment on the bill, because I think I am correct in saying that I am the longest-serving constituent MP in the House from west Auckland. I am a proud westie. I owned a property in the Waitakere Ranges for many years. In 1983 my partner and I bought 10 acres on Bethells Road, right in the heart of the area we are seeking to protect, and 3 years later we bought a larger block of 28 acres. We lived there for many years, and in recent times we moved into Te Atat\u016B south. So I see this from a local resident\u2019s point of view, as a proud westie and a person passionate about west Auckland and about protecting our unique natural environment in west Auckland, and as a former Minister of Conservation. For 5 years I was privileged and lucky enough to serve as Minister of Conservation for New Zealand. Just recently, about 3\u00BD months ago, my portfolio was changed to education. During my time as the Minister of Conservation this legislation was drafted by my colleague Lynne Pillay, who is in the chair tonight. She is also a proud westie who lives in Titirangi and is passionate about this legislation, as is our friend and fellow colleague David Cunliffe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EPart 3, which we are discussing now, is about accountability around local authorities monitoring heritage areas. There could be no more important heritage area for west Aucklanders than our iconic Waitakere Ranges. They are ranges that have seen great land-use change. When European settlers arrived in New Zealand, the Waitakere Ranges were clothed in some of the greatest kauri trees that grew anywhere in New Zealand. Te H\u0113nga Valley, where I had a farm for many years, had what were recorded as the largest kauris ever found in concentration in New Zealand. These were ripped out by the early settlers. True, they were seeking to create a new life. True, they were dedicated to their families and used the timber for building and for farming. They did not realise what they were doing to the natural environment. Luckily, through the foresight of some of the early administrations in Auckland, the Auckland Regional Council now administers a large area of parkland. I say to Gordon Copeland that by far the greatest area of the Waitakere Ranges is an Auckland Regional Council park, and thank goodness that it is now protected. But, nibbling away at the edges, there is still inappropriate land use taking place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EThis bill is about protecting that heritage area. Mayor Bob Harvey and his team, particularly our former deputy mayor, Caroline Stone, and our current deputy mayor, Penny Hulse, and others on the council, have been fantastic in pushing for this legislation. Like Lynne, David, and I, they are passionate about protecting the ranges. Graham Campbell and his team of officials at Waitakere City have done a great job in making sure that this legislation not only achieves its aim, which is to elevate the status of the Waitakere Ranges and to give them greater protection, but also gives reassurance to landowners in the Waitakere Ranges\u2014the people whom Gordon Copeland was just making reference to\u2014which I believe the bill does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EThis bill does not take away property rights. When I was privileged to hold the job of Minister of Conservation I visited many heritage areas outside New Zealand, in the UK and elsewhere. What happens to property in those heritage areas is that it becomes more valuable, because it has a greater status and a greater protection on it. People want to live there. I say to landowners in the Waitakere Ranges that this bill will actually increase their land values. Sure, they will not be able to carry out any inappropriate subdivisions, and nor should they be able to, but the value of their land will be increased by this legislation. It will elevate the whole status of the ranges themselves and make them an even more special place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EYou know, the Waitakere Ranges Protection Society\u2014John Edgar and his team\u2014has done a fantastic job. It polled Auckland, and over 75 percent of Aucklanders wanted this bill, including well over 80 percent of the residents of Waitakere City. It is a great bill, and I thank Lynne Pillay for the excellent work she has done in protecting a unique place in our city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002242edc2ff9af343a4b1159b52a18ddc0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242edc2ff9af343a4b1159b52a18ddc0b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E John Key gave a keynote speech today outlining the mushy nonsense that is driving Government. We are seeing an extra 10,000 policy advisers and bureaucrats, and over 250 mushy strategies with which bureaucrats run round and round in circles achieving very little. The problem with this Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill and with Part 3 is that it is more of this mushy, bureaucratic, Labour nonsense. People cannot explain what the bill means. Repeatedly through the select committee and the Committee stage of this bill we have sought to hear from the sponsor and its supporters an answer to the question of what this bill means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhen the member opposite, Chris Carter, said in his speech that the bill would stop inappropriate subdivision, I peered through the clauses. I went all the way through Part 1. Did it say that there? I went all the way through Part 2. Did Part 2 tell me that the bill would stop inappropriate subdivision? I have been all the way through Part 3, and I cannot find a clause that says the bill will remove inappropriate subdivision. You see, the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022152dd79fca614d809994a2ed9d4d5da7\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Wait for the jurisprudence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022240685d086eb43558bd9debafdbbeee3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is it. Mr Jones just sums it up. Mr Shane Jones says we should wait for the jurisprudence. So we will do exactly what that Government has done with the Resource Management Act: pass fuzzy amendments, with no idea what they will do; pass the ball from this Parliament to the courts; then wait years, after millions have been spent on lawyers, to establish what the heck Parliament meant. Members on this side of the Chamber say that is not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker, Chris Carter, said that the Waitakere Ranges Protection Society had polled Auckland, and that the majority of people wanted the Waitakere Ranges protected. Of course they do. Who would answer that question by saying: \u201CWell, I don\u2019t want it protected.\u201D? That is not the argument. The argument is between Lynne Pillay\u2019s mushy bill, which will achieve very little, and the very sensible proposition that has been put forward by National\u2019s Paula Bennett saying that the public lands of the Waitakere Ranges should be a national park. It would be the first national park in Auckland, and it would be an excellent choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to focus specifically on this part. The parallel legislation of this Parliament is the Hauraki Gulf Marine Park Act. I challenge this Parliament, 7 years after that legislation was passed, to tell me one thing that Act has done to improve the protection of the Hauraki Gulf\u2014just one. Has it protected an extra jetty, or a species\u2014anything?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240cf322bc7274eeda9d80e32037beaeb\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: One fish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aa958092741439eaba86c2e89cf3f2d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Not a fish; not a bird. It was just more bureaucratic mush.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI read in clause 28A of the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill that we will have to have a monitor report. I refer members opposite to the monitoring report that is required under the Hauraki Gulf legislation. Yes, it is a big, heavy document. Again, has it saved a bush? Has it saved a beetle? Has it saved a fish? Has it created an extra blade of parkland anywhere? The answer is no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want Lynne Pillay to explain something to the Committee. The transitional provisions in clause 30 of this bill parallel those of the Hauraki Gulf legislation, which got us into an awful mess in Whitianga. I know that my colleague Sandra Goudie from the Coromandel electorate\u2014[Interruption] No, I refer to the mess that this legislation caused for her community. We have in the transitional provisions of this bill exactly the same problems. I will ask the member a simple question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211be0f71686940a585db206f2ef6e853\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Is this confiscation by stealth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c475174025af41e5bc3ec77d3ad90fd1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: What I said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cab8763f2ee48d5871d8ba76b380047\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: That is what you said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d80b6f86d20428ea5ac21c9f0bd5f6b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I want the member to answer some questions for us. We will have local area plans, we will have district plans, we will have regional plans, and we will have national policy statements. Of those four sets of wordy strategies, which overrides which? I ask the member in the chair, because lawyers and landowners want to know. There are four strategies. I would love to know from the member in the chair what the priority of that mesh of documents is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4e00c7f46974bc187e1bfcab0dbc6fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4e00c7f46974bc187e1bfcab0dbc6fa\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E The member Nick Smith knows full well that the priority is that this bill does not override any of the strategies he mentioned. Rather, the bill works within that framework. The member is quite aware of that. This is the member who rode into town, stood before a meeting, and said: \u201CThis is confiscation by stealth.\u201D He had never even seen the bill\u2014never even seen it. Dail Jones has taken this up even further. He says the bill is socialism by stealth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EAll this silly nonsense is about scaring the people. I have met with a number of people who live in the Waitakere Ranges who said they felt much more reassured after seeing the bill and the report, because they had been told by the National Party that someone would take their land and rights away. I say for the benefit of Dr Nick Smith, because it is difficult for him to comprehend this stuff, that the reality is that within the Waitakere Ranges, under the Waitakere City Council, most activity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f82aae4c732a401f9aecdc2c3870e197\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Be more condescending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a0ff9794dc24731b40636d2058e7b6e\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: The member asks me to be more condescending. No, I will try to explain\u2014as I have many times, and as the Local Government and Environment Committee had explained to it\u2014that this bill sits over the Resource Management Act. It does not undermine it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea067b2087084f60b6509088008712ff\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Sits over! I thought you said under?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220227b10250384d01b48df9811fa3bc2c\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Over, under\u2014members can have it whatever way they want. This bill does not supersede the Resource Management Act; it gives guidance to councils in decision making. I will repeat that: this bill gives guidance to councils in decision making. When there is a district plan, where there are resource consents going, this bill gives guidance to the council to look at the big picture and the unintended consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b59fb7978e84a1288319f2282e935da\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: More mush.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2e75bb07b974c2d980b58f7ec1d8468\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Nick Smith would rather just have gay abandon, because that is the National Party style. The slippery National Party in one breath says residents will lose every property right they have, and in the next breath says the bill is waffle and has no teeth. National members should make up their minds. They are slippery\u2014that is the theme of the National Party. It slips around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2d0f90d5b7847c78e64be6e2025fa58\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Is that your word of the week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deb881360e2d4442832a4b5f4ed7019e\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: It is my word, because National members slip around. They put fear into the local people, good landowners who are committed to the land, by telling them they will lose their rights\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee86b647b1f04bf59a627d28e0e3e3f0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what the judge said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1fd452dff8546d58b783edd8ea32186\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and then they say the legislation is waffly and means nothing. The judge now endorses this bill. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00223ccbaf46ad8148328444d482d9c89fc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ccbaf46ad8148328444d482d9c89fc2\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I have to say that if ever there was a muddled contribution, it had to be that. I am sitting here listening, and the member in the chair, Lynne Pillay, says that this bill does not override anything but it sits over the top. Well, hang on a minute. If the bill does not do anything, and it does not affect anything, but it sits over the top, what is it sitting over the top of? In the next breath, she says: \u201CNo, no\u2014hang on a minute. It is not over the top; it is underneath.\u201D I got confused at that stage, and I was not sure whether I should be standing up on my feet or on my head to see which is up and which is under. I did not understand it. Then I thought I must be on the rugby paddock trying to catch an up-and-under so I could be over and under it\u2014that is what it would have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EWhat an absolute mess. The problem with the member who is sponsoring this bill is that she does not understand what the bill means. That is the first problem. The second problem with this bill has been concerning me all the way through its passage through the House. Right from the very start I asked why we need this bill, what it will do, and why we cannot do what this bill will do within the confines or the powers of the Resource Management Act and the other legislation. We were told that we could. So the next question asks why we need the bill. If we can do it within the Resource Management Act as it is now, and within the district scheme, the fact is that we then have to ask ourselves why we need these parts and schedules that we are debating here. The officials said the bill does not do anything. They said: \u201CIt has to be here because we need it.\u201D So I asked myself why we need this bill\u2014especially Part 3\u2014if it will not be doing anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E Finally\u2014and this is what really upset me, and it is one of the reasons I am more determined than ever not to see this bill pass\u2014we got a concession out of the local authority officials that they wanted the bill, as it was presented to us, to be wider than the Resource Management Act and to give the local authority more powers. Quite honestly, in my view they lied to the select committee\u2014not just misled but deliberately lied. That really upset me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EEven worse, I was at the local government conference and I was talking to the mayor, Bob Harvey. I explained to him what had happened. I said: \u201CBob, I had asked and asked\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022354bf120e8db4c00b473940c03efab8f\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: What did Bob say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de800125afbd4114aab2303a78bafcfb\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014hang on a minute and I will tell the member\u2014\u201Cwhether this had any wider ramifications. We were told that, no, it did not. Then, finally, your officials said that, yes, it did.\u201D Bob said he did not believe that they would have done that. I saw a couple of officials nearby and said that we should go and ask them. Bob went over to them and said: \u201CJohn Carter tells me that initially you were saying it doesn\u2019t go any wider, but now it does. What is the answer?\u201D. The officials said: \u201CYes, your worship. Actually, the bill as intended did go wider, but that is not what we told the select committee at the beginning.\u201D Bob was horrified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc39e2eeafcb4e4c83d3cb9e971bfd26\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293a74741eb274d3f811bfb2165be28ec\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Bob Harvey is an honourable man. He will tell you that that is exactly what happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe Local Government and Environment Committee had to go back and put clauses in to make sure that the bill did not override various Acts. I know that it is not in Part 3, but I refer members to, for example, page 32, where we had to put in a clause to make sure that the bill did not have authority over the Resource Management Act and the Local Government Act. We had to bring it back. Then we ask ourselves the question: if we have to restrict the bill\u2019s powers, why do we need it? The member in the chair says it is because it allows the local authority to look after the Waitakere Ranges. I ask why in the world the local authority could not do this under the Resource Management Act anyway. Nobody has been able to tell me why it could not do so\u2014not one official, not the mayor, not the councillors, and not the member in the chair. She has not been able to tell us that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022331d0cd2afee42409c7535c4b4c85720\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022331d0cd2afee42409c7535c4b4c85720\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. It is a pleasure to follow my fellow Northlander, who realises, as I do when I look at Kerikeri, what can take place when planning is not well conceived and when we do not have a scheme or a strategy for our heritage that gathers momentum amongst the people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EFirst, I must acknowledge the unstinting efforts of Lynne Pillay, supported by Mr Cunliffe, Mr Chris Carter, and Darien Fenton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff39ca4d710f441197e806e7aaef913e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s gone, too!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d22958a2efa64c5a9fea646fe0f2e819\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Dr Smith that the full value of this legislation lies in the future. In the future our mokopuna will remember the efforts that our MPs, supported by the three councils, have put in to produce a vision and a plan that protects the valleys, the gullies, the trees, and the creatures throughout the Waitakere Ranges. We will not see creeping, encroaching, ill-conceived developments into areas that are irreplaceable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI wait to hear from my whanaunga\u2014and possibly my tuakana, I do not know; thousands of genealogists will debate that point\u2014Tau Henare on why he will not support the tangata whenua of that area in ensuring that the w\u0101hi tapu of the tangata whenua are looked after, and that my ancestry and heritage from the Tarar\u0101s\u2014the Dalmatians scattered through all those areas\u2014are not forgotten, turned to dust, and eaten by the creatures, the moths, and the butterflies, etc. [Interruption] I also wait to hear from Hone Harawira; he needs to stand up and be counted. On every street corner he will find that our wh\u0101nau in the west are happy that the k\u016Bkupa, the ruru, and various other creatures in the ngahere in Waitakere will sleep soundly, knowing that this bill is about to find a place, as reflected in Part 3, where the state of the environment and the heritage area must be regularly monitored by not only the elected representatives but also the professional advisers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EDr Smith does have his point in terms of oratory in the House\u2014unfortunately, it is inversely related to accuracy. He does have a point that it is easy to exaggerate potential problems. I say to Dr Smith that there is no great problem with small legislation that has the simple but admirable purpose of enhancing the ability of the current legislation to care for a specifically valuable area. I say to Dr Smith that we do that with national areas such as our national parks. We do that with areas of the marine environment, and that is why this legislation will put a duty on the council to care for the heritage and the taonga of Waitakere. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c03ac6eb55c4db1aac0c40945264bbf\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next member, I want to remind members that the last three speakers have very broadly attempted to discuss Part 3. At the end we have a summing up discussion on the first two clauses. If members are going to make these wide-sweeping generic statements, can they please stay on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc181d5f86e84072bcb7df55a2340b79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc181d5f86e84072bcb7df55a2340b79\u0022\u003ETAITO PHILLIP FIELD (Independent\u2014Mangere):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge the last speaker because I think he is very well qualified to speak, particularly with his M\u0101ori and Dalmatian ancestry. They are the people who used to be up north digging kauri gum, and they have come back and bought large blocks of land in the foothills of the heritage area we are talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EI will take a short call because I do not want to bore listeners with the repetition that has been going on in this Chamber in respect of this bill. Last year the opportunity arose for me to visit the foothills. We have talked about the mountainous terrain and the bush area, but I will mention the foothills because that is where the real concern is, particularly in relation to the quality of soil, which I inspected with the council officials. It was clear that the area was not suitable for high-density housing. Those foothills require some protection because they are absolutely not suitable for tiny subdivisions that will carve up the land and create all sorts of environmental issues. I was surprised to hear Nick Smith rambling on about private rights. I would have expected him, as an environmentalist and a conservationist, to be giving a different message this evening about the need to protect important heritage areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003ETo the Committee I say that what we are doing tonight shows absolute common sense. It ensures the rights of landowners, and it does not take away from the Resource Management Act. It ensures that those areas that need to be protected are protected, and that those who apply for resource consents have their proposals properly evaluated in relation both to those important environmental issues and to sustainable development. I am talking about opportunities where I can see people making millions of dollars by carving up their land into little bits and pieces, with no regard for the sustainability of that subdivision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EI think Part 3 is important not only for the people of Waitakere but also for the people of Auckland and New Zealand. I am very pleased to support this bill and to ensure that it passes through the Chamber this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022633e7ff724774f8ca85977eebb28665c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022633e7ff724774f8ca85977eebb28665c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I respond to the contribution from Mr Phillip Field about protecting the soils in the Waitakere Ranges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f49abf9970c944d7867a2a9372bfd85c\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chair. I ask the member to address me correctly by my name as registered in this Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6a6347f3e9b4aa6bf9766df67bd8e76\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I wonder whether Dr Smith could do that. It is Taito Phillip Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da334b899029485ba7c58ab9cf0f6e49\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. Mr Taito Phillip Field. He raised the issue of the soils in the lower Waitakere Ranges. He is under the misconception that somehow this bill is going to protect those soils. Well, if we actually look at those soils, we see that over a hundred areas of New Zealand have similar soil types. Are we to have a special bill of Parliament for every one of those areas? Is not the very purpose of the Resource Management Act to protect them? If the member genuinely believes that the current Resource Management Act framework does not provide the mechanism for the protection of those soils, but provides for inappropriate subdivision, as he called it, let us fix the general Act; let us not have these sorts of piecemeal bills that are more about politics than they are about substance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhen I look at Part 3, I ask this question: how many times do I hear people say that we need to simplify the Resource Management Act? How many times do I hear that the Resource Management Act is too complicated? How many times do I hear that there are too many word games around the Resource Management Act? I genuinely ask the question of this Committee: do we think this bill will address those very legitimate concerns about the statutes as they are now, without these extras? Do I hear anyone saying: \u201CWhat we need with the Resource Management Act is more plans.\u201D? I never hear that, yet I see in this Part 3 of this bill the creation of even more plans and more complexity as we try to work out how national plans, regional plans, district plans, and local plans\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa6bd41f38104610ba512bca3220e6bc\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: LTCCPs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218e9806ffa7345fcaf5dfc768501f2e2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: LTCCPs!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bae6c03303e497989872d4a4f6d60a3\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: LAMPs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ac27d7c482f4563b5863710ff28b2c3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, LAMPs\u2014but the rhetoric is just killing this country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecc14ea7d786438d8bf73c266132fb1b\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: The member can\u2019t keep up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022782fc8def55e4bccad50bc2353ebac5d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not a matter of keeping up. I tell you what\u2014the people of New Zealand have had enough of the wishy-mush law that those members are proposing with this bill, which takes New Zealand nowhere. I do not think that the member in the chair, Lynne Pillay, actually understands, at all, what this will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235ad46c61066427a813fddd99b00cce0\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: The member in the chair does understand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad62529c65884d31aebbe5d7513537b4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I ask the member whether this bill will allow the erection of farm implement sheds. That is a fair question. I have heard from people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221185c6a3b42743c1bc2b3eb1c4f8f7b3\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re being pathetic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022513f71c4f1df47f1b3e60f12df84d3aa\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. She says I am being pathetic; I have to tell her that I have met with people in the Waitakere Ranges who want to know, under the transitional provisions of this bill, whether they will be able to build a farm implement shed. Will they be able to build granny flats on their sections? Will they be able to plant vineyards on their properties?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3aeef114f0644baa90518292907c7e7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: Part 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ddcb1cadf004799a048736a8d17ddd5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member is not able to answer any of those practical questions. She does not know, and this law creates even more fuzziness. One of the constant arguments we hear in this Chamber is to do with the increased costs we impose on ratepayers and local government, for no good. In fact, that is the very reason that John Key\u2019s speech really struck a chord with New Zealanders today in talking about excessive bureaucracy. In clause 28A, we see even more bureaucratic reporting requirements on councils. If councils want to, and if they support this sort of idea, there is absolutely no reason why, right now, they cannot produce a 5-yearly report on the state of the Waitakere Ranges. Why do we need an Act of Parliament to do that? Can the person in the chair tell me that? She has no idea as to why we have to put this into law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill is about everything that Labour is doing, and there is nothing about good environmental policy. It is not about good government; it is all about crude politics. And Lynne Pillay believes that the people of west Auckland are so stupid that if she can somehow run around the patch and say \u201COh, I protected the Waitakere ranges.\u201D, somehow they will be fooled, whereas this bill takes us backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u002224d8b34c3e154887aaf83c7ecf9096da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224d8b34c3e154887aaf83c7ecf9096da\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will concentrate on a couple of things in Part 3. One, under clause 28A, is that \u201CLocal authorities must monitor and report on certain matters relating to heritage area\u201D. Under anybody\u2019s district plan\u2014under the Auckland Regional Council\u2019s district plan, and under the Waitakere City Council\u2019s district plan\u2014local authorities already have to monitor the state of the environment. They already have to make progress towards achieving the objectives. They have to take account of a whole range of issues that are already in district plans, and that are already in other pieces of legislation. So I suppose that this bill really should be called the \u201CWaitakere Mana-munching Bill\u201D, because that is really all it is. It is all about someone\u2019s mana. Most of the stuff in this bill, including Part 3, which we are talking about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9583a860ba5414cb501d9031c14621f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ffefc1787884f569444043fb76cfd28\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022285bdb36b0fb499a92cecac09972b075\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we are talking about Part 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc7b6757c3244b0ba4a227e5134c3c20\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely\u2014and I do not believe that I have strayed off Part 3, Madam Chairperson. Thank you for keeping me on track. I also say that it is absolutely ridiculous to have all these clauses in Part 3, when every clause and every meaning of every clause in Part 3 is actually in the district plan. They are actually in the Auckland Regional Council\u2019s plan of what it has to do\u2014what it has to look after. So why are we doing this again? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EMr Key was right this afternoon when he talked about bureaucracy running wild. This is nothing more than an addition to that bureaucracy. There is a new paragraph (c) in clause 29, and it states: \u201Cthe ability of any person to bring a claim (or continue to bring a claim) or seek a remedy in any court or tribunal\u2014(i) arising from the Treaty of Waitangi, an Act, the common law, or in any other manner;\u201D. But what it does not set out or state is that people cannot bring a claim against the city council in terms of a Treaty of Waitangi claim. They just cannot, but this paragraph sort of gives the impression they can. So I think there needs to be a bit of work done on that clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThis is nothing more than somebody standing up and saying \u201CLook what I have done for Waitakere.\u201D Really, when we look at Part 3, all we can say is that it is about: \u201CLook what I have done; I have now copied in Part 3 what we already do.\u201D That is all this bill is about. It is all about standing there, and saying, in relation to Part 3: \u201CLook at what I have done. I have copied what is in the Resource Management Act, I have copied what is in the local district plan, and I have copied what is in the 5-year and 10-year plans of the Auckland Regional Council.\u201D We do not need a repeat of what has already been done. It is nothing more, nothing less, than a mana-munch by some people who want to get re-elected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac0a79b428e0400186f8c7351386bfce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac0a79b428e0400186f8c7351386bfce\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf33f707471b404ca66999ce92d53831\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf33f707471b404ca66999ce92d53831\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will stick with Part 3. I wish to speak about the monitoring and reporting on certain matters relating to the heritage area, and I think there is a good chance that I will not take the full 5 minutes. The monitoring and reporting is about working towards achieving the objectives set out in the bill. So it is about the progress made towards achieving the objectives, and it is that I would like to stress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe question I have for Lynne Pillay, the member in the chair, concerns how we will monitor and report on the natural and historic resources in respect of their intrinsic worth and their benefit for, use by, and enjoyment by people. How will we report and monitor when we are talking about such things as the quietness and the darkness of the ranges? Will council officials sit out in the ranges with a decibel rating machine, deciding how loud it is and whether it is acceptable? If we are going to have that\u2014because the objective is about the quietness and the darkness of the ranges\u2014then the question is whether the council has already done that. We must have something to report against. So are we in a situation where the natural landscape; the intrinsic value, worth, and benefit; and the quietness and darkness of the ranges will be reported and monitored by councillors or council officials who go out and measure it? How will they do that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe simply cannot have a provision that says we will monitor and report certain matters relating to the objectives when the objectives are stated in such waffly language that means nothing, and when the matters are something we cannot actually monitor and report against. I am just taking three examples, and they are quite easy ones: the quietness of the ranges, the darkness of the ranges, and their intrinsic worth and value, which are terms used in the objectives of the bill. How will we report and monitor progress on these objectives, and how have we reported and monitored on the area to date so we can say what we are monitoring against? That is my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022 data-id=\u0022cba7703c3a3e4ee6b632a80160de34cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cba7703c3a3e4ee6b632a80160de34cd\u0022\u003EMARTIN GALLAGHER (Labour\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022167f4fe23004486595d1d500f12280f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229f19260798964c758f299b0aa53af20e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e48615635ac04916b22d2c7159374dd7\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002220e56120a9ba445183fd65cfb7114c11\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221305508871ab4a919b0f0408af1441c1\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002283863af21a714088843cd34aae8ab8da\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002255fce80afd3d4633bdd3f2e822cf9b3b\u0022\u003ESchedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002296bec942998e46d89165fcf62f3820f0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a2d4ed9666342af8618393bf97460f7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call for speakers on clauses 1 and 2, I remind members that although we vote separately on clauses 1 and 2\u2014and there are amendments, I think, in the name of Paula Bennett, to clause 2\u2014this is a summary debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab20d0f86931434b8db9202722edc11f\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c52a658261ac46f2a1f9fda3f8c5b542\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c52a658261ac46f2a1f9fda3f8c5b542\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E National vigorously opposes this bill for four key reasons. The first is that it is about more bureaucracy when New Zealand desperately needs less. This bill creates more fuzzy law in the area of resource management when there is a pleading from New Zealanders and those who work in this area for Parliament to provide greater clarity. We already have three tiers of wordy documents, plus dozens and dozens of pages of law. We do not need another 40 pages of wordy mush as well as another tier of planning documents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI put it simply: when a person in the Waitakere Ranges applies for resource consent, the decision makers currently have to take into account the Resource Management Act. They have to take into account national policy plans, like the national Coastal Policy Statement. They have to take into account regional policy statements from the Auckland Regional Council. They have to take into account district policy statements. Do they also need to take into account local plans and this additional bill? National argues that everything one would want to achieve in terms of protection of the Waitakere Ranges can be done by using those other instruments, not creating more law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI go back to the introductory speech made by Sir Geoffrey Palmer in relation to the Resource Management Act. The legislation repealed 84 messy little statutes just of this sort. He argued very passionately for the Labour Party that it was time we had good-quality, single-statute law, and not piecemeal law. The Labour Party has gone backwards from that sort of view. I ask the Labour Party whether it believes that the Waitakere Ranges are somehow different, in relation to the need to protect them, from the beautiful coastline of Golden Bay, from the issues in Queenstown and that magnificent area of the lakes district, from the beautiful area of the Bay of Islands represented by John Carter, or any of the other areas in New Zealand that we feel passionate about protecting. If Labour really does believe that the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill is the key to protecting the Waitakere Ranges, and that the Resource Management Act cannot do it, then it should be introducing bills just like this bill in every one of those areas, unless it genuinely believes that those areas are not worthy of protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe third problem with this bill is that it treats councils as idiots. The member in the chair, Lynne Pillay, says that we need this bill to provide guidance for the councils. This is like the Government telling our schools what to have in their tuck shops. It is like the Government telling parents how to raise their kids. Why does the member in the chair think we have so much wisdom in this Parliament, that our councils are so dumb and that their elected representatives are so stupid, that they have to have another 40 pages of law for them to be able to do their job and to make the right calls about what is, and what is not, inappropriate and appropriate development in the Waitakere Ranges? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe fourth thing about this bill is just so typical of where this Government has got to. During the last 18 months we have seen that this Government\u2019s agenda is that everything is about the Labour Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022083c3b04f28f443b8f17c97e0b56bd1f\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. We do not expect a political speech on a campaign trail at this point of the debate. The member is wide of the mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4ad3a98b06c42fbad3284868332e254\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Taito Phillip Field, but clauses 1 and 2 are summary clauses in a sense. A debate on this is a summary of the legislation. It is a slight change in the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b87e3e16eb2447f992d8725060c698a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: What I say to that member and to other members opposite is that the problem is that this is all about politics and not about good law for New Zealand. We know\u2014and I am sure that the Labour Party\u2019s polling says the same as ours\u2014that Labour is in serious trouble in west Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a8b1c71fe64e978aad3f33219c7de2\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022880fce6c8325466a95217c4980940ff0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It is not just Hawke\u2019s Bay. I will show the Minister our poll results if he will show us theirs. The problem with Labour is that everything it is doing today\u2014from sacking the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board to the Auckland airport fiasco, or in terms of the Electoral Finance Bill\u2014is all about protecting Labour\u2019s interests, not New Zealand\u2019s interests. I say to members opposite that they have made a mess of the environment. In relation to climate change, and whether it is water quality or soil quality, this Government has not performed. So it believes that with a mushy bill of this sort it can somehow save its bacon. It is mistaken. This sort of mushy law will do nothing for the environment, and it will do even less for its electoral prospects. As John Key so effectively communicated today, mush is out, certainty is in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022005c0937bb9647a98ae5143462bbe3de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022005c0937bb9647a98ae5143462bbe3de\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a short call to support the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill. In doing so, I think it is appropriate to offer some thanks for the work that has been done by a large number of people, both inside and outside the House, to bring the bill to the place it is today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn my earlier contribution on the bill, I spent some time discussing the concept of the cumulative effects of subdivision and development. I went through the arguments about why, although every consent individually might seem appropriate, when added together the cumulative effect is that one loses this magnificent natural heritage, and that process is irreversible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f76748d39d4517a8effda3dfb4ce77\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Like if it had been done to your house in Herne Bay, eh?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264248eed3dcf411eae6763f270326263\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: At least I know where I live and I have never denied it\u2014unlike the leader of the National Party, who seems to have a memory lapse when it comes to making declarations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fef35dec55a548a1a7c793ee6d192e51\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Amnesia!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b41a3cdb7a644f95b8eebff9ce9f7d0f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: It is amnesia\u2014exactly. If we do not act now and seize this opportunity, we will never get the opportunity again. It has taken about 30 years to get this bill to where it is today. It started off with some people like Justice Tony Randerson, the former Speaker of the House Jonathan Hunt, and Gary Taylor sitting down one day and thinking about the long-term future of the ranges. The current chair of the Waitakere Ranges Protection Society, John Edgar, pioneered this and gathered the support of many constituents in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThere are other people in the Chamber who also need mentioning. Obviously there is the member who is carrying the weight of this bill through the House, Lynne Pillay, the MP for Waitakere, who deserves our special and collective thanks. Lynne has followed this bill from the beginning of the community consultation. I know that she has been at every meeting. She has spent interminable hours with community groups, the Waitakere City Council and other councils, the Clerk\u2019s Office, and the Bills Office getting the draft prepared. She is here today not to take credit for herself, but to shepherd through a bill with a narrow majority\u2014we recognise that\u2014but it is one that will make a very positive and lasting change in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI recognise the Prime Minister\u2019s efforts. The Prime Minister has listened to the voices of west Auckland; she said that on this bill what the west wants, the west needs to get. She has backed this bill through our caucus and supported it to Parliament today. It would be difficult to conceive the bill without it having received that support. I thank Darien Fenton MP, who is a Waitakere resident. She has made a valuable contribution to our team and has been a strong local supporter. The MP for Te Atatu, the Hon Chris Carter, has been a rock-solid supporter right through the process, particularly working closely with Waitakere City Council. I acknowledge Taito Phillip Field. Taito Field had his reservations about the bill but he has at least done the hard yards of coming out west and meeting with the Pacific Islands Advisory Board and the landowners in Or\u0101tia. He sat down and listened to them and worked in a reasonable way through their objections, then crafted amendments that members could vote for to perhaps moderate some of the rough edges of the earlier draft, so that we now have a bill that he supports. With his support this bill will, hopefully, pass into law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI thank the leaders around the table at the Waitakere City Council. It is easy to take people for granted, but Bob Harvey has been a visionary out west and has lifted it from \u201CBoganville\u201D to the \u201Ceco-city\u201D. He needs to be recognised as he has been a tireless supporter of this bill. He was able to swing some of the majorities in behind it that enabled it to come to the House. Deputy Mayor Penny Hulse was very keen to have a full consultation process, and I think that in the end it has probably assisted the durability of the consensus, even if it did take a bit longer. Councillor Judy Lawley has been a rock-solid supporter through the process. Former councillors Greg Presland and Denise Yates made an important contribution earlier on they have carried that through. These are the kinds of people whose mana is tied up in bringing this bill to the House. Although we as MPs are doing our bit to carry the bill forward that next step, we are actually standing on the shoulders of a whole lot of giants who have put their vision, hopes, and dreams into this fairly modest bill. I thank the M\u0101ori Party, the Greens, and all who support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022532349852a1d4d32882e9b17507bc821\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022532349852a1d4d32882e9b17507bc821\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E First, I want to speak on my amendment to clause 2. I felt that by pushing the commencement date out to 1 April 2009\u2014no, 1 January\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d04e2a819bbe43cca41f08b1644582dc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: 1 April would have been pretty good, actually!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c93b2bcdebce4fcaaf4d1df3e076bd9e\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, 1 April would have been a bit better, but we thought that 1 January was fair. We think it is reasonable to ask members opposite to give that opportunity to people who live in the Waitakere Ranges and who want to do simple things like complete a granny flat on their property that they are halfway through building, or to build another shed on their vineyard or orchard in the foothills. We heard about those things throughout the submission process. I think we need to go back to some of the basics. The reality is that no one wants to see the foothills carved up into a tight-fitting, medium or high-density housing suburban area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E No one wants to see that\u2014certainly, not anyone on this side of Chamber, and, from what I am hearing, not anyone on the other side\u2014and there can be no question about that. Doing a survey that asks whether people want to protect the ranges\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae7abc31966b48e2b492fc572ac0060b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d88988990f034e62acf81b686c01f019\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014quite frankly gets a \u201CYeah, right!\u201D. If I had been called I would have said \u201CYes\u201D, because we all want the ranges to be protected, and there is no doubt about that. What National members say is that this legislation simply will not protect the ranges. To protect the ranges, one would give them the highest status in the land and make them a national park. To protect the ranges, one would actually put them under a caveat that means they cannot ever be touched. That is what one would do for the public land that is in the ranges. But if one simply wants to take away the rights of individuals who live there and love it, and who have seen the area be refurbished and grow more in the last 100 years, since people have lived there, than it ever did previously, then one puts up legislation that will benefit only the lawyers. The only people who will benefit from this legislation are lawyers, who are left to try to determine what such phrases as \u201Cthe quietness and the darkness\u201D of the ranges mean. Does it mean people should not drive through the ranges if their car has a decibel rating of more than 2,000? Does it mean people should not drive through the ranges with the lights on, because it might affect the darkness? That is how utterly ridiculous this legislation is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ENo one debates that the ranges should be protected. No one debates that their protection is important, that they are important for Auckland, and that they are certainly important for Waitakere. The debate, quite simply, is that this bill will do nothing to protect the ranges. The Government has come up with this legislation, but no one actually knows what it means, and that is where it gets dangerous. People cannot understand how our viewing the land as a fish will help us to protect the ranges. The Government is overriding long-term council community plans that the locals have spent years developing, and that the council has been part of. At one stage we were told that this legislation would not overrule the Resource Management Act, then we were told that it would\u2014that it would not be worth having this legislation if it did not overrule the national legislation. It is as simple as that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ELet us talk about \u201Crural character\u201D and what that can mean. I go back to the title of the bill. A correct title of the bill would be quite simple: it is not the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill; it is the \u201CWaitakere Foothills Heritage Area Bill\u201D, for it is the foothills that will be most affected, and it will be the people living there who have caveats placed over their private land that mean they cannot do what they are already doing within the law. Members on the other side of the Chamber make it sound like there is willy-nilly building going on, that people are building monstrosities of houses, and that hideous developments are going on. The reality is quite different. Already people work within district plans. Already people work within long-term council community plans. Already the people of Waitakere have what they want and what they need, and they do not need this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022 data-id=\u002287ac226d5f32416eaa0836477d783100\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287ac226d5f32416eaa0836477d783100\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First opposes this legislation. We have heard from National members, who have set out grounds for opposing the bill that are very valid and that New Zealand First agrees with. The Hon David Cunliffe made a very good point. He said that this bill is \u201Cstanding on the shoulders of a whole lot of giants\u201D. Well, that is true\u2014they were the giants of the 19th century and the early 20th century, who put their hands in their pockets and bought the land that is now the 17,000 hectares of the Waitakere Centennial Park. They were the giants. But what are the people today who are not willing to put their hands in their pockets but who are prepared to take by stealth\u2014like the good socialists they are\u2014the rights of those who live in the 10,000 acres? They are certainly not giants. I know who they are, but I will not use the antonym because they must know that themselves. The giants have long gone. It is a sad fact that now in New Zealand we do not have the type of person any more who is willing to pay for the land, and who is willing to get out there, work it, and give it to society. Seventeen thousand hectares was given to the people of Auckland in that way; why can we not do that any more? This bill of the Waitakere City Council will prevent that from happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EDuring the course of the debate various comments have been made about the name, the area, and suchlike, that are quite wrong. The preamble to the bill itself is also quite deficient. I will read from one of the books I have collected, entitled West Auckland Remembers, which is edited by James Northcote-Bade, and which talks about Waitakere and what it means. It also talks about the M\u0101ori background for the area, which is actually contradicted in this bill. The name Waitakere, according to this book, is strictly the name of the large, flat rock in the small bay between Ihumoana Island and K\u014Dtau Point. The book states: \u201CHere the name refers to the action of the sea in sweeping over this rock. Originally this was not a name of great significance, but after the death of a Kawerau chieftain during \u2018Te Raupatu Tihore\u2019, and the display of his remains on the rock, the place took on immense significance.\u201D So Shane Jones\u2019 effort was really not to the point. The book goes on: \u201CThe small bay itself also became known as Waitakere, as did the river that in times past flowed into it, instead of to the south of Ihumoana as it does today. The outlet of the Waitakere River became known as \u2018Te Puaha o Waitakere\u2019, or literally \u2018the mouth of the Waitakere River\u2019.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThere has also been comment made in the preamble about the quotation. The preamble is defective and does not do tribute to the M\u0101ori history of the area, which is another reason for opposing the bill. I am disappointed in the M\u0101ori Party for not researching this. In the preamble there is a quote, but that quote is wrongly attributed. The correct name of the person is Te Waatarauihi Tawhiao\u2014[Interruption] If the member of the M\u0101ori Party wants to make a mockery of the M\u0101ori language, that is his affair. If he wants to insult the M\u0101ori people, that is up to him, but I am doing my very best. Te Waatarauihi Tawhiao was the Kawerau rangatira. He was not a Waitakere chieftain; he was a member of the Makaurau tribe. Once again, the preamble is wrong, but if the M\u0101ori Party member just wants to make a ridiculous semi-racist joke of it, that is his affair. The quotation, of course, is accurate, and the people who prepared the bill should be congratulated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EBut the important point is that reference is made to the tangata whenua of the Waitakere area as being people of an iwi, or tribal group, known as Te Kawerau-a-Maki. The west Auckland report on the Waitakere Ranges area says that although they are no longer in permanent occupation of their ancestral domain, they are regarded in M\u0101ori terms as still holding mana whenua, or traditional ownership, of the land. I make that point because I ask why Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua were brought into this bill, when they were the natural enemies of Te Kawerau-a-Maki through the centuries. I ask Lynne Pillay, the member who introduced this bill, what rights Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua have to this land, when traditionally\u2014and for centuries\u2014they were the blood-sworn enemies of Te Kawerau-a-Maki. I question, again, whether the M\u0101ori Party has done its homework. Here I am, just recently arrived in New Zealand, off the boat, yet I can go and do some research on the area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022033fdfb496994feda8b6fe5d62d5e3be\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: It shows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022317a22ece3134a7ebb0c6afacaee8650\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly, it shows because I have studied and tried to do something about it rather than live off a vote obtained by misleading people on things like the foreshore and seabed legislation, as the member did. So New Zealand First opposes this legislation, and I hope that I have now set the record straight on its historical background.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d689e91388ce4a808eec8ae37192ef43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d689e91388ce4a808eec8ae37192ef43\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E I will talk briefly about the title of this bill, the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill. The Local Government and Environment Committee, when we sat as a group and talked about this bill and its drafting, talked about the title. A decision was made to call it the \u201CHeritage Area\u201D. The reason we did not call it a park was that we did not want to presume in any way that the area included area within the park itself; we wanted to differentiate between the regional park and the area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EBut in terms of heritage we felt that it was a really important name, in order to recognise the heritage of the area and its people\u2014the tangata whenua, the Croatian settlers, the P\u0101keh\u0101 settlers, and all of the cultures that today celebrate the absolute wondrous beauty of the Waitakere Ranges. This history is part of the heritage\u2014the tangata whenua, the Croatian settlers, gumdiggers, farmers, winemakers, fisher people, and so on. If we look at the culture that is associated with heritage, we see that this extraordinary landscape has been such an inspiration to the many artists who live in, and absolutely love, the area and who produce so much amazing art. People have done amazingly beautiful carvings that celebrate the area. Those things make the area so special. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003ENick Smith asked what is so special about the Waitakere Ranges, and what about Queenstown. I had a great conversation with Sam Neill, who had a battle in Queenstown about inappropriate development, and Sam Neill said we were doing wonderful things in the Waitakere Ranges. I say \u201Cwe\u201D collectively. I would ask Nick Smith where else in the world we would find such wondrous nature as the Waitakere Ranges, right on a city\u2019s doorstep, just 20 minutes\u2019 drive from the centre of a city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EIt has been said that this bill will make lawyers happy, but I tell Paula Bennett, Nick Smith, and Dail Jones to talk to the residents of Henderson Valley who had to gather together $50,000 to fight an inappropriate decision and go to the Environment Court. They won their case, but it cost them. We do not want our people to have to fight those sorts of cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI acknowledge my good friend David Cunliffe and all the people whom he acknowledged today. The third reading will be the next stage of the bill and that is the time to really celebrate all the people who have worked so hard to bring this bill to fruition. I want to mention one person today\u2014Jack Colmar. Jack Colmar is a resident of Bethells Beach. He went throughout New Zealand and talked to almost every celebrity and hero, and got them to sign the petition to ask for protection for the Waitakere Ranges. I guess the most wonderful hero who put his name to those petitions was Sir Edmund Hillary, and I know that Sir Edmund Hillary would feel very proud to know that the bill was at this stage in the Committee today and would warmly welcome this move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI have heard the Opposition criticise the bill, and fuddle people, but I have never heard the member opposite who lives in the west, the leader of the National Party, take one call on this bill\u2014not one. He knows that it is not a popular thing to do. He leaves those other poor members opposite to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThis is a local bill. It was arrived at after so much consultation, commitment, and a common vision for a fantastic future for this generation and for generations to come. I acknowledge the Waitakere City Council, the Rodney District Council, and the Auckland Regional Council for promoting this bill. This is not the Labour Party\u2019s bill. I say to Nick Smith: \u201CRead my lips: this is not a Labour Party bill.\u201D This bill was promoted by those councils with a mandate from the people. It has been brought to the House so as to protect what I know is a most beautiful, if not the most beautiful, part of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d12615284b5d492e97d16a7cee1ae7e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d12615284b5d492e97d16a7cee1ae7e8\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I agree with some parts of the previous speech. I think the Waitakere Ranges are among the most beautiful ranges that the country owns, but I intensely dislike the use of the old tactic of name-dropping. It is a tactic of the union that when one is in trouble, one name-drops. One would use names like Sam Neill\u2014who flies in and says blah-blah-blah, and flies out again. Labour uses Sir Edmund Hillary\u2019s name\u2014God rest his soul\u2014as if he were some sort of guru, just for the Labour Party to trot out when it likes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI heard Ms Moroney yelling out and accusing John Key of not living in that area. What a snide remark that was, because none other than David Cunliffe does not live in his electorate. He lives in the CBD, in Westmere. It is OK for Labour members to do that, but it is a heinous crime if National does it! This bill will encourage people around the country to say to themselves: \u201CI think I can put my name in lights. I\u2019ll introduce the \u2018Motatau Ranges Heritage Area Bill.\u2019 \u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6cef21386894ee9b5880321e46b767b\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Come on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef190b003661443c9ab0cab94cc8084f\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely! The member for Te Tai Tokerau will have nothing else to do but support that bill. He stands for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274343a5e1cd9457d9d17a8c13d57c72e\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a8735ddc565478c87affaff13154ab4\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: There we go! He would support anything that goes past these days. Like I said before, this is nothing more than mana-munching. It is nothing more and nothing less than somebody getting up and mana-munching. A person who puts up such a bill could leave this place and have his or her name in lights and be able to say: \u201CWell, I was the member for Waitakere, and I put forward this bill to save the ranges from those horrible people out there who want to put a tool shed on their 20 acres.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7b478a1c81649518d3434d23f53d3dc\u0022\u003EDail Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Or a long drop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca71ad6a6054d76bd7863420eac38d5\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Or a long drop. For goodness\u2019 sake! This is the reason why this Government will not last very long. It is gone, it is dog tucker: \u201CGoodbye, see you later, ka kite.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI want to finish by saying that everything in this bill can be done with the present law\u2014the Resource Management Act, the Auckland Regional Council 5 and 10-year plan, and also the Waitakere City Council district plan. There is nothing in the bill that cannot be done by the organisations that rule the roost at the moment. This is why we have to stop this bill in its tracks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI am disappointed in the M\u0101ori Party, not for the reasons that Mr Jones put forward but purely and simply because the bill does nothing. It does nothing for local M\u0101ori, it does nothing for local landowners, and it does nothing for the local community. All it does is pin\u2014[Interruption] At least I recognise and accept that I have gone bald, not like some other people. I say in conclusion that this is a nothing bill and we have to do better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022 data-id=\u002274a249f164af43d2b53ed0bd6fbc3f35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274a249f164af43d2b53ed0bd6fbc3f35\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY (National):\u003C/span\u003E When we take the Government benches, which I hope for the sake of this country is in the not too distant future, and when we as the Government draw up a list of those bills that were passed in the Labour Government\u2019s time that really were not good law and did not meet the requirements of the community, I hope we have the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill at the top of our list of bills to repeal. I say that quite sincerely, because I have sat through the entire process, unlike many of the other speakers from the Government side, and I have heard every submission and read every bit of paper that has come out on this particular local bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EThis local bill did not have the local community support it should have had or deserved. For that reason, it needs to be right at the top of our list of those bills we will repeal. Local bills need to have full community support. I sat through the submissions and heard the conflicting stories of neighbours. They did not understand; they were confused. I heard people, who were the loveliest people and who had never submitted in their lives, being painted as developers. They were painted as being bad, evil persons who might be developers because they did not like this bill. I thought it was incredibly sad that we had a local bill that was being driven through the process by the council, using things like polls with \u201CDo you love your mum?\u201D sorts of questions. I thought that if ever there was a \u201Cconstructed\u201D local bill that was being driven through, this was it. It will not deserve to stay on the statute book\u2014it will not deserve to stay on the book.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EMany good community people came before the Local Government and Environment Committee who were passionate about the ranges\u2014and rightly so. They were all passionate actually, and rightly so; that is not in argument. But they did not understand, and they were very, very confused. I thought that was wrong. I felt that Bob Harvey should have had the courage to pull back and say: \u201CI really should look at how I bring this back again in a way that people understand, in a way that meets the requirements, and in a way that actually delivers on the promise but maybe in a different way. Maybe I could do it in the way a national park should be, or some other way, because this is not working. My community is not comfortable with this.\u201D To call it a local bill I think is a big misnomer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EOne of the most interesting things that struck me through the submission process was that the bill does not actually address one of the biggest issues in the ranges, the biggest threat the ranges have in regard to their surviving the centuries as they should, which is the fact that the bill at no stage talks about visitors. I do not know whether members realise that 2.5 million visitors go through the ranges annually. There is no discussion in this bill about these people going through the ranges and about what harm they can do. They are not the people who live within the ranges\u2019 boundary, who love the place to bits, and who would hate to see anything happen to it\u2014not those people; they are the nice ones\u2014but they are the people who come through, have things in their car, chuck cigarettes out of the window, and have the music up far too loud, or whatever. It is a huge issue for me that this bill does not address that quite significant impact on the ranges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EI stress that this bill is a local bill but does not have community support. I suppose I challenge the M\u0101ori Party a little bit, because they talk about the power of the consultation process and about how Bob Harvey will involve them. I just want to raise with them a letter I received, which was given to me. It is a letter between the representative of Ng\u0101puhi and Bob Harvey, where he talks about his relationship with M\u0101ori. I will quote from the letter: \u201CThose f\u2026king black faces don\u2019t f\u2026king vote. They are f\u2026king lazy and do nothing for themselves, and if you don\u2019t help me your organisation is finished in this town.\u201D That is Mayor Bob Harvey talking to a Ng\u0101puhi representative about the relationship he has with M\u0101ori in his community. I have quoted directly from a correspondence from the mayor to those people, stating that black faces do not vote, that they are lazy and do nothing for themselves, and that if Ng\u0101puhi does not help him, then they are finished. That is a direct quote. M\u0101ori Party members can say that the Mayor of Waitakere will consult; I think that is a farce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6f7362c015f4a8a872175fbbb745bc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6f7362c015f4a8a872175fbbb745bc1\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022be349f47f7474bc48778dcbb5f4b41f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be349f47f7474bc48778dcbb5f4b41f5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I will cut to the chase and ask the members opposite to answer a question, as if they were consents officials for Rodney District Council or maybe Waitakere District Council and a person comes up with a resource consent for maybe a farm shed, new section, or granny flat. When the consents official turns to clause 1 of the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill, where it states that the land is a fish\u2014and the law states that this is the law they need to take into account when making the decision as to whether people will be able to build their granny flats, approve their subdivisions, or have their farm sheds\u2014my simple question to the member opposite Clayton Cosgrove, and to the lawyer amongst the Government benches, Russell Fairbrother, is how that consents official for the council is to make a decision that must take into account the new law that \u201Cthis land is a fish\u201D. Does it mean that Mr Cosgrove is more likely to give a consent for the farm shed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b0cdbcc3ba44aba666b8762fb4eb2a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve gone troppo, Nick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8fccd5a74074b0cbec9c24026fc63ca\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite can throw insults, but can he answer the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0fa2b768aa64801a56eeac18da7420d\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I just said you\u2019d gone troppo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286102f1ff85e4713bc9a67201ce4107c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am actually just asking the member a question. Perhaps as a Minister in this Government he might be able to answer it. If the member were a consent official for the Waitakere District Council and were considering a consent application, how would a law that states that \u201Cthis land is a fish\u201D\u2014that is what we are proposing to pass\u2014help his decision as to whether to grant a consent? That is what we are deciding; we are deciding what the instructions are that Parliament gives to the council official when he or she is making a resource consent decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI have to say, I do not think there is a member in this Committee who has the foggiest idea about how the new law in clause 1 that states that \u201Cthis land is a fish\u201D will help. I do not know any member of this Chamber who can explain how it will help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c2e75cc0286476697415a819f10935b\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bb5395e0bb14c1b8a24018b4afb9edb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am honoured to hear that. I would be happy to yield to Mr Harawira if he can explain to me, when the council official sits down to make a consent decision on a farm shed, granny flat, or new section\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fd6a76d408c4c4dbb058ed98199046c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t take too much more of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226346eb6852aa4b418b0a8079b3d89db6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Clayton Cosgrove does not like it. He does not like an honest question. I know that Dail Jones is a lawyer, and I am not sure whether he would be able to tell me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad368d65e4744d43a1b61c02a4790cad\u0022\u003EDail Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Lovely jubbly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1fd1a009d9d490aa8b7dd7fa5dfc135\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I think he is rubbing his hands with glee because he knows that the legal fraternity would be able to have a field day arguing what Parliament meant when it passed clause 1 stating that \u201Cthis land is a fish\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a12cc350150a4222848a0f05f66354ec\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Dail\u2019s taking your medication.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac5c93f1adc54d96a579ecd103bf0830\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member Clayton Cosgrove again decides to turn nasty and to make insulting remarks. He is the nastiest member in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a35d30103cc04c35b60b88653f2a2d75\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t have a sense of humour, Nick. Lighten up. Take some happy pills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022851701b177f34c15b106b2f088c01864\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am asking the member to explain to the Committee why passing a law that states that \u201Cthis land is a fish\u201D will somehow magically save the Waitakere Ranges. Is there any member in this Committee who would put up his or her hand and say \u201CYes, passing a law that states in clause 1 that \u2018this land is a fish\u2019 will protect the Waitakere Ranges.\u201D? Does the member in the chair really, truly believe that passing a law that states in clause 1 that \u201Cthis land is a fish\u201D will suddenly protect the Waitakere Ranges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022332a0b3ce2b24f6193579feae8a4b454\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, she does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022591cf6acd5044f43b1ce73bb38e079f4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: She does?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EParliament is making a joke of itself tonight. Parliament cannot be expected to take seriously passing loopy law that states things like \u201Cthis land is a fish\u201D. The truth is that this bill is just spin. This bill is pure spin over substance. This bill will do absolutely nothing to protect the Waitakere Ranges. This bill will just add to the army of bureaucrats, to the pile of paper, and to all the frustrations that ordinary New Zealanders have about the bureaucracy that this Government has created, and continues to create, for absolutely no good. I simply challenge again any member opposite to really cut to the chase and explain how passing a law stating that \u201Cthis land is a fish\u201D will protect the Waitakere Ranges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022faa9149159ca437d85b5ad37ec2a59e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022faa9149159ca437d85b5ad37ec2a59e5\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chairman. By way of explanation to Mr Smith, I think I had better clarify a couple of things. First of all, I think he needs to be careful about accusing this bill or the people associated with this bill as being loopy. Those sorts of things come back to bite people later on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EBut in terms of clause 1, I would like to give the context to the comments that have been made. There are two parts. The first part will be in M\u0101ori, and the second part in English. \u201CWhakarongo mai e ng\u0101 iwi ki t\u0101 te k\u014Drero i mua, he ika t\u0113nei whenua. Ko te tangata n\u0101na i huti, ko M\u0101ui. Kei konei tonu ahau, \u0101, mate noa. Listen all of the assembled tribes, to this the talk of olden times, this land is a fish. The person who fished it up was M\u0101ui. I will remain here on it, indeed until I die:\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThat was a comment from Waitakere Chief Te Waatarauihi in his opening speech at the Kohim\u0101rama Conference in 1860. I just wanted to give a bit of context to the k\u014Drero. I think Dr Smith belittled the statement by trying to draw something out of it and make fun of the whole bill, simply by doing that. He asked me to take the opportunity to speak to that issue, and I have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EOn another note, I want to pick up on some of the comments made by Mr Dail Jones. I note also that he often makes reference to the fact that he is no relation to Shane Jones, and Shane would agree. I do not know of any of Shane\u2019s relations who speak M\u0101ori as badly as Dail Jones does. It is constantly, consistently, and continuously bad, bad M\u0101ori. To make the assumption that he has made about Te Kawerau-a-Maki and to repeat those assumptions in this Chamber as if they were gospel and as if he is the person who wrote the gospel really does validate what he said earlier, that he has only just gotten off the plane. He is fresh off the boat and he does not understand a lot of the things he is talking about. It does not really matter what he has read; neither does it matter what he may have heard. The fact of the matter is that he talked about Te Kawerau-a-Maki and Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua as if they were unable even to sit in the same room\u2014as if they were destined to be enemies for all time. He is absolutely wrong, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef04a8967cda4a3fbde41eb39d98c31d\u0022\u003EDail Jones\u003C/span\u003E: They were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a84169130a749f7b67b7aba8d4dbe6b\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: The member did not say \u201Cwere\u201D; he said \u201Care\u201D. Te Kawerau-a-Maki and Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua have both signed up to this bill. The reason why the M\u0101ori Party is supporting this bill\u2014and we were a bit wary of it in the early stages\u2014is that we went back, right through the whole of the Waitakere area, and we consulted all of those M\u0101ori groups. We consulted Te Taumata R\u016Bnanga, who are a M\u0101ori representative group within the council, we spoke to the representatives of Te Kawerau-a-Maki, and we spoke to the representatives of ng\u0101 marae e rima o Kaipara, the Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua representatives, as well as to the chairperson of Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, Naida Glavish. On the basis of their support for this particular legislation, the M\u0101ori Party was happy to come in behind it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI have heard the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s name get raised quite a bit, and I will just note too that that the comment referred to in the preamble, \u201CKei konei tonu ahau, a mate noa.\u201D, is a comment that has been raised by a member of the National Party, Mr Chris Tremain, on a couple of occasions. I have heard him mention that statement. It is a very important statement and I did not realise that it came out of the Kohim\u0101rama Conference of 1860 and that it was referred to in the bill. It was a very, very important conference in terms of the status of M\u0101ori tribes right throughout the nation, and in particular in and around the Auckland isthmus. It was an important statement in terms of the relationship of the speaker to the lands in and around the Waitemat\u0101 and the Waitakere Ranges, as well as further south into Manukau. It is important to hear that k\u014Drero. I am glad to see it included in this bill, right at the top of the preamble, because it gives a sense of recognition of the importance of the M\u0101ori history to Waitakere and the importance of that statement in bringing together the various iwi of that area to support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is happy to support this bill on that basis. When it comes to the opportunity to vote for it, we certainly will be. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022 data-id=\u00224662b55eba244ab9833e18fffdfbdab2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224662b55eba244ab9833e18fffdfbdab2\u0022\u003EMARTIN GALLAGHER (Labour\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee5a312cd4534efda856345d41e88ec3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee5a312cd4534efda856345d41e88ec3\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaikoura):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to get the opportunity to speak on this bill, because although I do not live near the Waitakeres I do recognise the name and their significance, for reasons other than those that the members on the other side of the Chamber would have us remember them for. It is around the statement that my capable colleague the member Nick Smith made\u2014it is the fish. Earlier, when we were having this debate around Part 2, it was said that when M\u0101ui pulled up the fish he had his foot firmly placed upon Kaik\u014Dura, and that is what gave him the leverage to be able to pull up what we know as the fish, the North Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EBut the point I want to make is that there is a considerable interest in what is being done in the Chamber tonight. It is with great interest that I heard one of my colleagues, Mark Blumsky, say that he would like to see this bill repealed when National becomes the Government. That is because there are many authorities throughout the country that will be looking at this bill when it is put into law, if that is the case, as being best practice and a good example of what should be done. They will not be able to be part of the process that has dragged out and split the community whereby a local bill has come to this House with barely fifty-fifty support, yet it has been sold as being the best-practice perfect model. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EIt is hugely concerning. We see, when we look back through all the debates on this side of the House, that it has been well argued that this is nothing more than notional and is not going to do something remarkable. It is full of platitudes and is quite condescending to the rest of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWe look at this Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area as being made up of something that started 110 years ago. The preamble states: \u201CThe Park, protected at local, regional, and national levels, is an area of some 17 000 ha,\u201D. I have heard my colleague Paula Bennett say that if there were some real courage and strength to people\u2019s convictions, they would set this up as a national park. In actual fact, that would be more consistent because when we look at the Resource Management Act and at what it means, it does not achieve anything over and beyond that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EBanks Peninsula in Christchurch is a beautiful spot. However, it is also a large area of pastoral farming. Those farmers live in fear of this bill becoming law and impacting on them in such a way that they can no longer farm. There is every possibility that somebody in future Christchurch councils will have this notional idea that we should set up a heritage park on Banks Peninsula. For that matter, someone might have a view that we should set up a heritage park on the Kaik\u014Dura peninsula. I am sure that all the dialogue that is possible to be had will not satisfy the M\u0101ori people in Kaik\u014Dura.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E What we are looking at here is a very, very sad case. The Waitakere Ranges in my day were recognised as being a great place, where Arthur Lydiard, Peter Snell, Murray Halberg, and those sorts of people went for their Sunday run. I used to go for a Sunday run on Banks Peninsula. We would go from the Sign of the Takah\u0113, up over Governors Bay, Evans Pass, and then back around. There is every opportunity in the future for local authorities to impose this so-called best practice\u2014which is like an illegitimate child that nobody wants to own\u2014called the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area. It is of concern to New Zealanders and it is of concern to the very economy of this country. I am comfortable that members on this side of the Chamber have got it right. It is a clear example to all New Zealanders as to why this Labour Government must be voted out at the next election\u2014the sooner the better. Then we can get some sensible laws that will take this country forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00224514c44a67db4c7e9ef4c5c2d4238c9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224514c44a67db4c7e9ef4c5c2d4238c9f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I firstly thank Hone Harawira for his contribution to the debate, in which he reflected on the historic M\u0101ori words spoken in 1860 that included the reference to \u201Cthis land is a fish.\u201D I want to make it plain to the member that I am quite respectful of those comments and their appropriateness. What I challenge the member on is whether the phrase is good law. There are many, many proverbs. For instance, I come from the Christian faith, and often these words are recited in church, and, indeed, they go right back to Jesus Christ: \u201CThis bread is my body.\u201D Would I support a bill going through this Parliament that stated: \u201CThis bread is my body.\u201D? No, I would not. Is that being disrespectful of the Christian faith? No, it is not. It is about having the good sense to know what is good law and what is bad law. The National Party is arguing tonight that such a reference in a history book about what was said at the time and references at public occasions to those historic words are all quite appropriate, but to put them in resource management law, from which people have to make decisions about whether to grant a consent, is a nonsense. It does not add value to the protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI challenge the M\u0101ori Party on this point. If the bill set up some clear specifics around what M\u0101ori want protected in the Waitakere Ranges, then it might make some sense, and the National Party might be able to support it. If the bill had a reference to a particular part of coastline, or a burial ground or urup\u0101 that people want protected, then, yes, that would make some sense. We would then understand what the law means. The problem is that the sorts of vague phrases that are in the bill make the law of this country a nonsense. They do not provide for clear decision-making and, what is worse, they actually lead to poor race relations in the sense that both M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 New Zealanders do not know the meaning of the law. There are fights in court, with nobody knowing what is meant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to reflect on the comments from David Cunliffe. He spent his entire speech thanking everybody, but he said one other set of words. He said that the reason we need this bill is that the Resource Management Act does not do a good job of dealing with cumulative effects. My question for Mr Cunliffe is this: if the Resource Management Act does not do a good job of dealing with cumulative effects\u2014an extra section here, an extra section there, an extra house there, and an extra building there in the Waitakere Ranges\u2014then why would the Resource Management Act work with cumulative effects in Canterbury, Banks Peninsula, the beautiful Marlborough Sounds, the beautiful Bay of Islands, an area like Hawke\u2019s Bay, or an area like Golden Bay? I ask whether the member in the chair, Lynne Pillay, can explain it to me. If it is indeed the flaws in the Resource Management Act that do not allow the cumulative effects in the Waitakere Ranges to be managed properly, then why are we choosing only an area of less than 1 percent of New Zealand in which to fix the problem? If there is a problem with the cumulative effects and the way they are treated under the Resource Management Act, then surely we should fix it for all of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI ask the member in the chair whether she agrees with Mr Cunliffe that the reason for this bill is that the Resource Management Act does not deal well with cumulative effects. The member is absolutely silent. She has no idea. Well, either she agrees with him or she does not. Oh, she does not agree with him. She nods her head and she does not agree that that is the reason. Well, now we have the members of the Labour Government from the Waitakeres all over the paddock. Here, at the end of the Committee stage of the bill, they cannot even agree on why we need the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI have to say that that is absolutely consistent with the position taken through the Committee stage and in the Local Government and Environment Committee. There is total confusion within the Government as to why we need this bill. Those members do not know why. It is solely an exercise in politics. They want to be able to run around during the election campaign and say that they saved the Waitakere Ranges, when those people who have any knowledge of this area of law know that it is a load of codswallop. This bill is solely about politics; it is not about providing good law. I think that the real problem for Labour is this: its environmental record is a dog. In the key areas it has not performed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022d34c1d9b23494045be1b9f90e4d90144\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d34c1d9b23494045be1b9f90e4d90144\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da79be14a7ea498cb71b70dccf7c5f39\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: John Carter has showed great interest in other clauses, so on clauses 1 and 2 he might like to take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00223f510d2324c44a1bb0b5ee2c0e8fc49b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f510d2324c44a1bb0b5ee2c0e8fc49b\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate having the opportunity to comment on this part of the bill. I wanted to take a call\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7059336ca3c472aa7225dea509b7fe4\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s your mum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9dba49206bd4e898dfc0fe95f74a109\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Mum is fine. She has been listening to this debate intently. The thing that worries me with the fact that my mum is listening to this debate on the radio\u2014and she listens intently to all the speakers in the House\u2014is that she is absolutely confused by the message that has come from the Labour speakers. She is one of those people who think that Waitakere is important and should be looked after. She is absolutely confused, as is just about anyone else who has been listening to this debate and to the explanation for the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EYou know, if there is one disappointment\u2014and there are a number\u2014above all else that we have found in this debate, it is that we have not had a lucid explanation from the proponent of this bill and from the members opposite who support it as to why we should have it. There has not been one good, lucid reason. If those members could say to us that the Resource Management Act does not work properly and, therefore, they will allow this, this, and this to happen, then we would have to listen to that debate\u2014because one would. Everybody agrees that the Waitakere Ranges are important and should be looked after, but not one lucid reason has been put forward by members opposite to say that we need to have this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EIndeed, when we asked why we needed this bill in the first place and whether its purpose was to allow something else to happen that the Resource Management Act, the Local Government Act, or the Conservation Act could not do\u2014all those questions were asked\u2014we were told that, no, this bill did nothing, absolutely nothing, outside what was already in legislation. So I kept asking that question until, finally, it was confessed that the proponents of the bill, the officers from the local council, wanted it to be broader and that they had misled the Local Government and Environment Committee. I find that to be seriously worrying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we had to go through various sections in the bill, and, with the agreement of the proponents of the bill and the Labour members, we all had to say\u2014and we made sure\u2014that the section does not override the Local Government Act, for example. That is now written in the bill. It is also stated that it does not supersede the Resource Management Act. That is written in the bill. It is so clear that everywhere we went we had to put in a clause to say that it was not outside the scope of the existing Acts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003ETherefore, I come back to the question I started with: if this bill does not do anything special, if it does not do anything more, and if it does not allow anything to happen, then why do we have it? I know that my mother is sitting at home asking exactly the same question. She will be sitting there wondering why we are spending taxpayers\u2019 dollars\u2014her money\u2014having this debate. She will be wondering why we are spending her money on a bill that does nothing. You know, the one thing my mum has always done is make sure, listening to her crystal set at home\u2014[Interruption] Absolutely\u2014she will be tuning it in. There will be a bit of static, but she will have it going. She will know how to fine-tune it. [Interruption] The point is that she will be seriously wondering why Lynne Pillay and other members of the Labour Party have bothered to waste the time of the House, her taxpayer\u2019s money, and the money of her friends. Why on earth would we pass a bill that, at the end of the day, does nothing? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003ELet me tell my mum the reason. This bill is all about politics. It has absolutely nothing to do with achieving anything. It is all about Lynne Pillay and the other Labour members from west Auckland trying to get re-elected. They will be able to go out there and say: \u201CLook what we did! Look at this!\u201D. That is entirely what this bill is about. Actually, one of the things we should do\u2014[Interruption] Of course those members are worried about our very good colleague Paula Bennett. They know she is a real challenge to them. One of the things we should do is to refer this bill to the Electoral Commission to see whether it fits in with the Electoral Finance Act. If we think about it we will see that it probably does breach that Act, because it is all about politicking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Tau Henare said, this bill is all about mana-munching. It is all about members trying to get their names in lights so they can go and say to the people of west Auckland: \u201CLook at me! I\u2019ve got my name on a bill!\u201D. Well, it will not work, and they ain\u2019t going to get re-elected. This bill will not save them. This bill will not help the people out in west Auckland. My good friend and colleague Nick Smith made a very good point when we said we would expect a local bill to have a very, very huge degree of support within the community. We would imagine that it would have at least 80 percent to 90 percent support. Sadly, this bill probably has the support of less than\u2014but certainly not much more than\u201450 percent of the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003ECertainly, the weight of the submissions told us that this bill is not supported. More people submitted against the bill than for it. We sat in the select committee, day after day, listening to all the good people. Every submitter came along and said they supported the Waitakere Ranges. They want the ranges to be there; the ranges are their home. They said the ranges are in the pristine state they are in because they live there and they protect them. They said they are the guardians of the ranges and that they did not need the Labour Party members coming along on their big white horses and saying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022964e871d51c74907b4d3fa9d731df28f\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Their big silver BMWs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022953367558a784b299c208a3e94eaa5fc\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, maybe\u2014whatever the Labour Party members run around in out in west Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ac97115d2674e1db313d5a1ad9aa761\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bbd33de723544c69c4af96cc7597ce5\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it? OK. That is something we do not have in the far north. Anyway, the point is that, unfortunately, the people in west Auckland said they do not need to have this Government\u2014Lynne Pillay, and the other Labour members out there\u2014writing law to protect them from themselves. That is because they are already protecting the ranges. They are very proud of that fact. Indeed, some of them showed us photos of the Waitakere Ranges 20, 50, and 100 years ago. The photos were of burnt-out fields of scrub, where trees had been chopped down, burnt out, or milled. Today the ranges are replanted with native trees. The investment that must have been put into that place by the locals is something they are all proud of. We can all be proud of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9794b82fd9e4ffdb836ce9e55ea67e3\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Your mum would be proud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ad2e012ea04556b99ed1cc10b10900\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I know my mother is seriously proud of that. She knows how proud the people are; that is the sort of thing my mum grew up with. The point is that she does not need to have this bill to fulfil her need to have the ranges protected. The fact is that, unfortunately, people will now be more and more sceptical as to what this is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9f2158d385a4a6fab96c5e796e39d06\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member\u2019s mother have an amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220c9ff4a160544298ed9f50154276463\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: If my mum was here, she would want to put an amendment forward. It would be an amendment to do away with the bill. My mum reflects what a good number of the community out there are thinking. We would expect a local bill to have overwhelming support in the community, but one of the sad things is that that is not the case here. Mayor Bob Harvey knows that. The officers who supported this bill know that. The member in the chair knows that. She will answer this by saying that they did a survey across Auckland\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224436e1141bd645a2873e3e26c6b9f2c6\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Who paid?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4e71b334706485abc827055af5153dc\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a matter of who paid for it. The question in the survey was: \u201CDo you want to preserve the Waitakere Ranges?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022603b2fb87e2549ddb3df983a1d3ec446\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I said yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022930707e1082f4895afc74fce70cc415d\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Who would not say yes? Who would say: \u201CNo, let\u2019s mow them down and bulldoze them.\u201D You\u2019ve got to be kidding! Of course people will say they want to preserve the ranges. The fact is that the survey should have also asked: \u201CDo you want a bill that interferes with people\u2019s rights?\u201D. If that had been asked, we may well have had a totally different answer. In fact, I know we would have. That is what this bill does\u2014it interferes with people\u2019s rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI remind the Committee that the member in the chair, when asked about the scope of this bill by my colleague Nick Smith, said that it sits over the Resource Management Act and the Local Government Act. We said: \u201COver? Does that mean it is bigger than the Resource Management Act\u2014that is has more authority?\u201D. She said she did not mean over it; she meant under it. We got to the stage where we did not know whether it was over it or under it. We could have been upside down. In fact, as I said before, I started to wonder whether I had to stand on my head to look at this bill to see whether I was over or under it, because I was not sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe sad fact is that this muddle reflects what this member thinks of the bill. It reflects the confusion, and it reflects the reason why my mother will be sitting beside her crystal set, listening through the static, and wondering why we are passing a bill when the member in the chair\u2014who supports the bill and whose name it is in\u2014does not even know whether it is over the Resource Management Act or under it. We seriously have to ask ourselves whether this Committee, on this bill, knows whether it is over it or under it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0577e476ee045e9875b355bc005b7cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0577e476ee045e9875b355bc005b7cc\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdd493ae782f4cea98e3af5119687703\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: We have had 16 calls, but it is a members\u2019 day. It is entirely over to the members at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022704e8e33c6d944279fd644880f949f44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022704e8e33c6d944279fd644880f949f44\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Otago):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman, for allowing me to take a late call, and it will be a short call. I just want to make a couple of points. During the course of this debate\u2014which I have been following very closely in my office while doing some reading on what I thought was an unrelated matter\u2014it has become increasingly clear to me that the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill has been brought to the House and sponsored by a member who has no faith in the Resource Management Act. I think that is a great shame, and it is a very dangerous precedent for resource management and any kind of planning activity throughout New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAlthough the member sponsoring this bill can argue that it is merely a local bill relating to the Waitakere Ranges\u2014and I know that the matter of Queenstown has been raised in the Committee already this evening, and for good reason; it is a very special area also\u2014I can see coming to this House in the future a \u201CRemarkables Ranges Heritage Area Bill\u201D or a \u201CManiatoto Ranges Heritage Area Bill\u201D. What then for the integrity for the Resource Management Act? I too heard the arguments in the Local Government and Environment Committee. The question was raised as to where this so-called local bill sits in relation to the Resource Management Act, and whether it sits on top of or alongside the district plan. I do not believe we heard a straight answer then, and I do not believe I have heard a straight answer tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ETo come to the main point of my short contribution tonight, I was sitting in my office reading about what I thought was an unrelated topic to do with South Island high country pastoral leases, and I came across some eerie and disturbing similarities. When I go to the commentary at the beginning for the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill, it states: \u201CThis bill has originated from the promoters\u2019 view that a unique situation has developed in the Auckland area in that a nationally significant area of ecological, historical, and cultural value sits in close proximity to an expanding international city.\u201D Then I go to a communication from a Mr Brian Usherwood, General Manager Business Support for the Minister for Land Information, the Hon David Parker, who wrote to a high country lessee: \u201CThe Government has announced changes to tenure review processes designed to protect significant lakeside landscape biodiversity and other values on pastoral lease properties.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EHang on a minute, what happened to the Resource Management Act? What happened to the protections that are provided under the district planning processes of the Resource Management Act? Or is this Government so arrogant that it thinks it can just override the normal processes that have been consulted on and are part of district planning processes and long-term council community plans? Can the Government then, as with the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill, ride roughshod over those processes, just as it is doing with the South Island pastoral leases? It is exactly the same principle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe point I make in this debate is that this Government has no faith in the Resource Management Act; thank goodness the National Party does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e46054ab83c647f4a70cd7391bcc4830\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000712\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Paula Bennett to clause 2 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000713\u0022\u003Eto omit the words \u201Con the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent\u201D, and substitute \u201Con 1 January 2009\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c1f4db68b2de42ae89ad916b4c996c21\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222204cd79cacf490882cf29e05e02a1c4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000714\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f6001a201bc4c2dab094f3203d0c8ad\u0022\u003EManukau City Council (Control of Graffiti) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fbccfc90d7ef4f538ebd5f3090ba0b5a\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022946ca22e8dcb44d09e7faf4d677eabef\u0022\u003EPart 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3a7d8ea48664d49affcaf9b2177702a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3a7d8ea48664d49affcaf9b2177702a\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I acknowledge the work Sir Barry Curtis has done on this. Sir Barry worked extremely hard to try to get some control on graffiti in the city of Manukau, where there are over 300,000 tags a year. That is a huge amount. I have to acknowledge Sir Barry, and also the councillors in Manukau\u2014in particular Daniel Newman, who has worked closely with me on this. I acknowledge my colleague Ross Robertson for all the hard work he has been doing. It is also true that all the members of Parliament from Manukau, I think without exception, have supported this bill and their council. This is a cry from the Manukau City Council for some help. I also acknowledge people like the Reverend Mark Beale, who worked very hard with the Manukau Beautification Charitable Trust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E I must say, though, that I was surprised to read on the front page of the Dominion Post today, about Mayor Kerry Prendergast of Wellington doing a moan about moves to actually help the graffiti problem. She did not come up with one suggestion\u2014not one suggestion\u2014and I would have thought that she would have. The former mayor of Wellington has been very supportive of this bill, and I think it is interesting that the mood has changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EA young tagger was killed in Manurewa, and the mood changed. People are looking to this Parliament for some moves. Obviously, everyone knows that the Government has its own bill at the select committee, but I do not want to get into that too much, other than to say that Manukau City, as a council, has asked that this bill be passed as quickly as possible. There are amendments, and I am making some amendments, so that when the bill is passed, its wording will be more in line with the Government bill. Of course, it will also give shopkeepers time to get their spray-paint under lock and key. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EManukau is spending a million dollars a year\u2014a million dollars of ratepayers\u2019 money a year\u2014on getting rid of graffiti. The Mayor, Len Brown, wrote to us on 4 February, and said he believes that the enactment of this Manukau bill will provide an interim solution until the Government bill is passed. I think that is very important. It also means that the Government, I am sure, will make sure that its bill is dealt with speedily. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EHow people react to graffiti is interesting. Some people see it as art; I do not. I have been an art teacher and head of an art department in a secondary school, but I have to say I do not believe that people using someone else\u2019s property for their canvases has anything to do with art, at all. It is young people rebelling against society, and of course the Manukau bill does not have answers for that. People get to the stage where they are so frustrated that they just want to have some power to do things, and I think that that is where Manukau is at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EMy colleagues Ross Robertson and Judith Collins have both been very supportive of the council over this bill progressing. In relation to the last bill, we saw how an Opposition can draw things out for quite some time\u2014by even talking about their mothers, those members can take up time. But in reality I hope that all people in this Parliament will work quickly to help this bill progress, because it is a cry from Manukau City to do something. I think we need to do more, of course. We have to look at the causes of tagging, and why young people are out on the streets of Manukau at 2 and 3 in the morning, spraying paint on someone\u2019s fence, on his or her house, and on other buildings. I believe we have to act fast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a035f7ddbe224e3aa9e066c32e89e69a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a035f7ddbe224e3aa9e066c32e89e69a\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E I am a Manukau City ratepayer, and as such I completely support the Manukau City Council in its attempts to try to deal with this absolute vandalism that goes on in Manukau and other areas of New Zealand. I think it is a real irony that today we have not only the National Party supporting this bill\u2014which, of course, we have always had all the way through\u2014but also the Labour Party, I understand, may now change its mind and support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhen George Hawkins brought this matter to the House and it was sent off to the Local Government and Environment Committee, this is what Labour said about the bill. It said that it would not work. It stated: \u201CWe also believe Manukau City Council could develop and expand its urban design initiatives to minimise opportunities for graffiti.\u201D So in other words, it is Manukau City\u2019s fault\u2014blame the victim\u2014that is what Labour said to the Manukau City Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut, my goodness, what a difference a poll makes, or, in this case, several polls. People in this country are absolutely sick of the PC nonsense that has been given out by former Attorney-General David Parker in his advice on this bill that says we cannot have that because young people should be able to buy spray-cans, for some reason. Why? Is it a human need? No! In fact, we now have a Government that is so concerned about the fact that so many other people are concerned about this issue, it is saying that we will have this legislation right throughout the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EHowever, I do despair of the fact that whatever bills we put through this House, we will still have people who break the law. And that is the difference. There is a huge difference between making the law and keeping the law\u2014enforcing the law. It is already illegal to vandalise, it is already illegal to be a graffiti tagger, it is already illegal. Yet what happens? Nothing happens, other than the good ratepayers of Manukau City, the good people who live there, have to clean up the mess that these vandals leave behind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ENowadays it is not just a matter of spray-can painting; the main thing being done now is etching. But unfortunately that will not be covered by this bill. People etch with pieces of glass or pieces of steel. They etch into glass so that the storefronts of properties are absolutely covered in etching. I can see that my colleague from down south does not understand why that would happen. Well, that is because etching cannot be removed as easily as spray-paint can. So I think we have to deal with some tremendous problems in relation to property rights and respect for other people\u2019s property. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, we have had about 30 years of being told that property is not important and that it is owned only by capitalists. Actually, the people of Manukau can say to this Government that it is not about that; this is about people\u2019s homes, their sense of security, and their ability to be able to come home and have some peace in their own home, and to be part of the community without having to live in fear. When I say \u201Clive in fear\u201D I am not exaggerating. This is not just about spray-cans. This is actually about intrusion on to people\u2019s property. It is intrusion by people who adopt a gangster-type persona and think they are part of some Los Angeles gang. Those sorts of people bring fear to the good people of Manukau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI congratulate George Hawkins on having the courage to put this bill forward. I think he is a person who cares about his constituents in Manurewa, and I congratulate him on it. I also know that Ross Robertson feels the same and I feel the same. The people of Manukau have had a gutsful of graffiti taggers. We have had a gutsful of being told it is art. We have had a gutsful of cleaning up their mess, and it is about time they took some responsibility. I think it would really good to give some of these people a nice stay in a good fresh start camp in a nice place like Wai\u014Duru, where there are fewer opportunities for graffiti art. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut I tell some of those members who do not come from places where this happens that now graffiti taggers even tag the trees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2541acf19544147bd3aea51e9e50924\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Tag the trees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7b11b36204443b8b9f3a6c020e84d67\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: They do\u2014they really do. They tag trees. We have an entire bush just covered in tags. They tag the footpaths and they tag the roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhat reaction did we have from the media when the first law was announced, when the Government suddenly decided that it did care about graffiti and it did not worry about Mr Parker\u2019s opinion? What did the media do? They went along and made these little vandals heroes. They gave them publicity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI despair of the fact that someone has been killed in Manurewa over this tagging. But I also say to people that this is the sort of thing that most people cannot stop, and the people who are the most affected are the people without the resources to move away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7d7cc99acfd41408e467daa8328d3dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7d7cc99acfd41408e467daa8328d3dc\u0022\u003EH V ROSS ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Manukau East):\u003C/span\u003E Let me say at the outset in connection with the issue of graffiti that rather than lay blame, let us accept that there are faults on all sides when it comes to the issue of dealing with graffiti. Let us also accept that we need to work together as a Parliament in order to do something about trying to eradicate it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EI want to speak in particular to clause 3, the purpose clause, which states that the purpose of the legislation is to control the sale of spray-paint and to control graffiti in Manukau City. Why do we want to do that? Tagging is not only a crime against the conscience of our nation; it is also a crime against everything that is good and wholesome in our society. It is all about a culture of indulgence, where what is right and wrong is what one can get away with. There is no sense of responsibility and no thought for others. Whatever happened to the golden rule: \u201CDo unto others as you would have them do unto you.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003ESpeaking as a longstanding member of Parliament for Manukau, along with my colleague the Hon George Hawkins, I acknowledge, and pay tribute to, Sir Barry Curtis, who, as Mayor of Manukau City\u2014he is now retired\u2014led the charge to make Manukau proud, progressive, and positive. When everyone else complained and did nothing, he was the one who decided that enough was enough. I want to refer to recent criticism by Wellington mayor, Kerry Prendergast. She attacked the Government for what she considers inadequate funding arrangements to defeat the scourge of tagging. There is such a thing as \u201Ct\u0101tou, t\u0101tou\u201D or \u201Cwe together\u201D. Together we serve and together we prosper, and central government and local government can certainly work together on the issue of tagging and graffiti. I say: \u201CWell done, Sir Barry. Your leadership is acknowledged this evening as we debate this bill, your bill, the Manukau City Council (Control of Graffiti) Bill.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003ETagging and etching with a sharp instrument cost this country millions of dollars every year. Anguish, heartache, and untold misery and stress are caused to those affected by the antics of those who want to leave their mark for others to see. Of course, I am reminded of dogs, who do a similar thing, except that they have to relieve themselves. If artistic taggers want to relieve themselves they should use their talents in other areas rather than on street furniture, statutory undertakers, and educational establishments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003ESir Barry is without equal in leading the anti-graffiti campaign, and maybe we should make him an ambassador to promote awareness of the ugly side of graffiti and why it should be eradicated. His immense talent in building Manukau to New Zealand\u2019s most progressive city should see him continuing to serve our community. He has much to offer this country and he displays all the attributes needed. He is a man still willing and able to serve. He has the intellect, and can get his head around the subject. He has the heart and the courage of his convictions. He has the guts to know what the reality of the situation is, and he has the spiritual side of it in wanting to provide a service to our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003ETagging requires the strong arm of the law and the willingness to enforce it. We need to ensure that this Parliament passes legislation that will enable us to contain graffiti. Some countries have much harsher penalties than we have in New Zealand. I do not want to go into that at this stage, because there other issues to debate when it comes to the whole issue of Part 1. Mr Hawkins might like to speak about the commencement of the bill because he has been a forerunner in promoting this issue in Parliament. He is to be commended for the work he has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022 data-id=\u00220c8b5cbbdc3d4010929218563526b934\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c8b5cbbdc3d4010929218563526b934\u0022\u003ETAITO PHILLIP FIELD (Independent\u2014Mangere):\u003C/span\u003E I thought that as I spoke earlier on the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill, it would be rather remiss of me not to speak on the Manukau City Council (Control of Graffiti) Bill. Graffiti is not a problem that is unique to Manukau; it is a problem throughout New Zealand. It is a problem that has been within our community for a long time. I think that we should rightfully be concerned about people who damage the property of others. We view burglary as a very serious offence, and damaging other people\u2019s property\u2014incurring great costs to clean the damage up\u2014is an offence. The consequences of doing that should be serious enough to warrant our support for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E One of the things we have seen in Manukau in recent times\u2014and one can see this particularly when using the airport\u2014is graffiti painted all over the latest factories that have been put up along the road from the airport to M\u0101ngere. It is an ugly sight; it not a pretty image for a gateway to this nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EI think this bill goes some way towards recognising the seriousness of the problem of graffiti and the level of that problem today. There has been a perception over many years that graffiti is acceptable, particularly in relation to the hip-hop culture, which is associated with graffiti, depicted on television programmes from the United States and elsewhere. I think that this bill will help to turn the minds of young people away from that sort of perception. I am not sure how effective it will be, but at least it is an attempt to do something about a serious problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EI am not certain about the degree of effectiveness of this bill\u2014and I think that has been mentioned by a previous speaker\u2014but given the problem we have had and the level of ugly graffiti around the place, it is about time that this Parliament recognised the need for something to be done. So I support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EI support those people in the Mangere electorate, and also those in Manukau, who work very hard to try to deal with the graffiti problem. I want to recognise a former Manukau city councillor from M\u0101ngere Bridge, Mr Bill Kirk, who is well known in the M\u0101ngere area and who has worked very hard to try to deal with graffiti over many years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill with amendment and progress on the Manukau City Council (Control of Graffiti) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080312c0ea2d41b3f646dc8ed58e55996bc36f000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"