"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e803e8630d7489a84a1b70181d5b2b8\u0022\u003ETuesday, 8 April 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228311d43e6ecc4a1eacfe4da7fdec49f9\u0022\u003ETuesday, 8 April 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d552c0c5047432cb9c1fdd0b202ca45\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a09f2d4691cd4516a96cdd1a3a668624\u0022\u003ESamoa\u2014Speaker of the Legislative Assembly\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022493142b0dda8475e98aff8a34b1c3e85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022493142b0dda8475e98aff8a34b1c3e85\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have much pleasure in informing members that the Hon Tolufuaivalelei Falemoe Leiataua, Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of the Independent State of Samoa, is within the precincts of this Chamber. I am sure that members would wish him to be welcomed and accorded a seat on the left of my Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EThe Hon Tolufuaivalelei Falemoe Leiataua, accompanied by the Deputy Speaker, entered the Chamber and took a seat on the left of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e57859f779f34e5083b1506a908a7380\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228fdf07924e004762804e34b4094932a7\u0022\u003EDerek Lovell\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5d46d31fc8141a8a9f9f63e9c27c4a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5d46d31fc8141a8a9f9f63e9c27c4a9\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this House note with deep sadness the death of a senior firefighter of 25 years, Derek Lovell, who died attending a major incident in Tamahere on Saturday afternoon, and convey both its profound sympathy to Mr Lovell\u2019s family in their bereavement, and wishes of a quick and full recovery to those other firefighters who were injured in the fire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EHonourable members stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a106b3ce3cff4d79b66cdbaa1d98fe7f\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022adbd910c9b3146f486d28a5ebecedfb4\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022677a4e8ac55649dfaf01fff5a497ae72\u0022\u003ETax Cuts\u2014Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223850ac62f8ca40b08e27bfa763b8ce5e\u0022\u003E1. JOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she agree with the Minister of Finance that \u201Ctax cuts are not self-funding. If unaccompanied by expenditure cuts they simply lead to burgeoning deficits and debt\u201D; if not, why not? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002200d74af67f07417e815a3612ba8fd982\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200d74af67f07417e815a3612ba8fd982\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E It is not often a Leader of the Opposition gets applauded just for being able to ask a question. The Minister of Finance is correct to argue that there are always opportunity costs attached to revenue reductions. The impact of these is greatly lessened if the Government has been adopting a strong fiscal stance over a period of years\u2014which this Government has been. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224027570168dd437c8dce280d45ce73d7\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the intention of the Government to stick to the spending allowances for Budget 2008 as outlined in the Budget Policy Statement, which were $3.1 billion in operating spending, including the business tax package, and a $1.5 billion revenue reduction; if not, what are the Acting Prime Minister\u2019s best estimates of the variances of those allowances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bdcb9e0150741788bd34e6639029842\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly if there are going to be any significant revenue reductions, then that cannot be accommodated within that $3.1 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eca12181249d43709decad7b6f431516\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen any reports on whether the Minister of Finance was, in his recent comments, expressing his personal views or his views as Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279cd2fb5661e474fbd4fb3b35cbc9901\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The views are expressed in the 2005 Budget speech in relation to the United States and of course are both the Minister\u2019s personal views and therefore, by definition, the Government\u2019s views as well, given it was the Budget speech. But that is quite different from the situation where Mr Key called to increase net debt to 25 percent\u2014something that Mr English said had never been one of National\u2019s policies. Presumably Mr Key does have a personal view, even if it is only on Government debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2fbf7300c47ddbb1ba3f9c5ed6b9f\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree then that if the new spending component in the Budget is to be stuck to at $3.1 billion as per the Budget Policy Statement, then the size of the tax package, if it is in excess of $1.5 billion as noted in the Budget Policy Statement, has to cut into the new Budget spending component?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022929d1e0b259b4254bbd53301b57cc2e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has set four tests for any tax cuts that are incorporated in this Budget. The Minister of Finance has noted that it is quite clear that it does not matter what the Government does, as Mr Key will promise bigger tax cuts, no matter what the impact would be on the provision of social services or the long-term debt track. The Government\u2019s basic debt anchor will be reaffirmed in this year\u2019s Budget as being at around 20 percent of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae8dbb7bdc864aa1beb30157fc361283\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I asked the Acting Prime Minister a pretty simple question, which was, if the new Budget spend is to be $3.1 billion and the revenue reduction is to be $1.5 billion, would he confirm that if the tax package is larger than that, it would cut into the new Budget spend? It is a relatively simple question to answer. Maybe he would like to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f71a67a7802e4813a98796943d818678\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Acting Prime Minister did, in fact, address the question, and, as members know, the Standing Orders do not provide that specific answers have to be given to questions. A Minister must just address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbbbb07d1b7142718cc3c028f6a06fca\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do not want to disagree with your ruling, Madam Speaker, but I do not think he did answer the question, unless the point that he was making was that allowing debt to rise to 20 percent of GDP from the 18 percent it is at today would indicate that the tax package would, in fact, be adding to his borrowing programme\u2014and I am not sure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b61687a1bd544c087da8d527bd97a49\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is all very interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296b34928c73241c5ab443159c1b7c01b\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Prime Minister clarify whether when her Minister of Finance said in the House last week that the programme of tax cuts over a 3-year period that he will announce on Budget day will in each of those years exceed indexation, he was saying that they will exceed inflation over just that forecast period or that they will exceed the cumulative inflation of 23.8 percent since 1 April 2000, plus the forecast over the next 3-year period?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db0764b6f0fe48b4a3e797a9347adbca\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is mixed up between various elements here. I think what he means by \u201Cindexation\u201D is the movement of thresholds. That translates into a certain level of tax reduction. I indicated last week that I am pretty confident at this point that the actual tax reductions will be larger than what would have followed from indexation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204d4212299ff4caeadc58bfe1c8d6f70\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Acting Prime Minister confirm what he already seems to have said today\u2014that in fact the ratio of debt to GDP will be rising from about 18 percent, where it is today, to about 20 percent, as a result of the fact that the Government\u2019s tax package, when added on to the new Budget spending component, cannot fit within the current debt profile?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022099dc1d7e38844cf82ca8725b258e983\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that the Government\u2019s debt targets remain unchanged. It was the member who suggested that the Government was too low-geared, and should increase its debt target to at least 25 percent of GDP\u2014that is, in debt servicing costs, an increase of $700 million a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273d92ad1a76f44c6aef2470328f83c41\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with her Minister of Finance when he said that tax cuts that give people more than $10 a week are affordable but economically irresponsible, but that cuts that deliver less than $10 a week are not worth having\u2014in which case, can she tell us what sorts of tax cuts we are in for in the 2008 Budget: ones that are economically irresponsible or ones that are not worth having?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227114685cded64a62a669c916ff005493\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member has lost so much money in the last few months that he might be quite pleased by the size of the tax cuts. But these tax cuts will be fair and equitable. They will not lead to a reduction in social services, and they will not place further pressure upon inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaa5f73e5b304cbd984c2e9fde65dc69\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: What would be the impact of increasing the deficit in debt to 25 percent of GDP?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0c5eb87d44b459ba85a369a42235de5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: A debt ratio of 25 percent of GDP would require an additional $700 million a year of expenditure on servicing that debt. That would have to squeeze out other opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e299d4a6d46c4620809a04d290c3d1c7\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister noted the track record of her Minister of Finance, which is that he promises tax cuts and then does not actually get to deliver them to New Zealanders; and is the reason that the first tranche of the tax cuts will probably come in before the election that even the Prime Minister does not trust the Minister of Finance to roll them out after the election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275c3562e06dc44238f3a3f22824d7fe5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister trusts the Minister of Finance both to ask and to answer questions in Parliament\u2014unlike that member\u2019s deputy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6510a25a8d94df6ae66d0e603b3a98a\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister of Finance noticed that in the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research\u2019s business survey that was out today, confidence has fallen to a 33-year low, and that one of the reasons it is at a 33-year low is that people have been talking down the economy\u2014in which case, did the Minister of Finance help that process when he talked about an oncoming recession? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282e7a979a87d4fc7be4d2b6d2e38f883\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: We have the extraordinary sight of the Leader of the Opposition being desperate to talk up the economy so that he can justify unsustainable tax cut promises. I remind him that the general business confidence survey was at its lowest in December 2005, and that after that the economy grew. It has been in negative territory for about 5 years, during which we have had the longest period of economic growth for well over a generation. There is a disconnect between these surveys and what the economy does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022150090ebb5e24e1093c011337b82e390\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister deny that tax cuts stimulate economic growth and increase tax revenues; and why does he ignore the fact that New Zealand could take the lead of any number of former Eastern European socialist countries, which with lower, flatter rates of tax experienced much higher real growth in 2006 than New Zealand did\u2014countries such as Estonia with 11.2 percent growth, Latvia with 11.9 percent growth, and Lithuania with 7.5 percent growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c459a444eca4b44aa68100f47a2bc85\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I thought almost anybody in the world had long since got away from the belief that if we keep cutting taxes, revenue keeps increasing faster. What would happen at the point when we reached a zero tax rate is not clear as a piece of logic. But if the world were full of such free rides, then ACT would not be at 1.1 percent or whatever it is at in the public opinion polls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ab779f203794b9c85e8dd137e999026\u0022\u003EHistoric Treaty Claims\u2014Resolution\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc1ac09de7474bd9bbf94d301b130683\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: What progress has been made in resolving historic treaty claims in the central North Island?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002290a3314a4eb445a4bf1d1b0ce5c24ced\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290a3314a4eb445a4bf1d1b0ce5c24ced\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E Very good progress. On Friday I received a proposal from the central North Island iwi collective that was a very positive step forward in the innovative process of settling the central North Island forest lands commercial claims. This was presented at Waih\u012B, and was supported by hundreds of leaders and people from the various involved iwi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1fa0625893945db86f598764d0a3e0a\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: In congratulating the Minister and the central North Island iwi collective, I ask whether he can tell the House what reports he has seen on reaction to this excellent progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f75bf8ecb20c4502ab406a3ad17febef\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The proposal was clearly welcomed enthusiastically by the iwi involved and I indicated that it was very much the basis on which the Government would be able to talk about a final settlement. I was very pleased particularly to see a statement of support from the M\u0101ori Party, and the presence, in support, of Te Ururoa Flavell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0f659793fb34b61865dbf22578a5ecd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: What about us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d47b3fe836db4ecb95a4b23d1af381db\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: And New Zealand First, whose support in all matters is always welcome, including in some others we have yet to come to today. I also noticed that since the terms of agreement were signed in February, Te P\u016Bmautanga o te Arawa has agreed to work with the collective to develop the settlement proposal. I would like to congratulate the iwi collective on its determination to develop a proposal that can be considered by the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222790c53e6407459080357003bf8f8a3a\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has the Minister seen on reaction to last week\u2019s excellent progress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6fee25bd7eb4644b728ab041c163faa\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I was surprised to receive a report from Mr John Key, stating that he was sceptical that the process would be successful, in which he seemed to be unaware that he was criticising a process that is, in fact, iwi-led and iwi-initiated. This seems very odd, as his own party member the Hon Georgina te Heuheu has lent her weight to the process, and it will come as a great disappointment to the other 100,000 people involved in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022481867df1cac48f08cd7b76d5c879ccb\u0022\u003EElectoral Finance Act\u2014Third Party Registration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d20c9319381c4f14b84526f952589166\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Is it Government policy that individuals involved in the administration of a political party cannot register as a third party under the Electoral Finance Act 2007, but bodies involved in the administration of a political party can; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002274766d0cde15487f8fd2fbe67a059b76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274766d0cde15487f8fd2fbe67a059b76\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The intention of Parliament is contained in the Act. Registration of third parties is the responsibility of the Electoral Commission, not the Minister of Justice. The purpose of the third-party provisions is to ensure that New Zealand\u2019s electoral system is open and transparent, and that those who participate are identifiable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d60c100d4cc41bca121acff1bb69986\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that the Electoral Commission\u2019s ruling on Friday, made under Labour\u2019s legislation, means that no matter how closely any group is linked to a political party, that group can still register as a third party and spend another $120,000 on election advertisements, on top of the party\u2019s election expenses cap?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ecf94fe913a45cf91c85ba46795ede7\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The decision that was made by the Electoral Commission on Friday came after it had got a Crown Law opinion. It is up to the Electoral Commission to decide whom it will register as a third party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0bd9b404d34b579a70d771057d5708\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen reports that criticise the Electoral Finance Act, and does she believe that Mr English sensationalised and overstated concerns with regard to the Act, and now finds that it is neither as restrictive nor as Draconian as he previously had portrayed it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022296060d58ac9473ca430691f9b7d8d22\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is fair to say that Mr English and the National Party have over-egged the whole debate for political purposes, and that is because the biggest rorter of the old system was the National Party. That party\u2019s plan to buy the 2005 election was found out, and it does not like the new systems in place, which make it more accountable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d159195d8854e9fa0ed063460f171e1\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the only egg around is the egg on Labour\u2019s face, given that it spent 2 years lecturing everyone else on keeping the law after it had broken it in the 2005 election, then was the first to breach the Electoral Finance Act, which that party itself had passed; and why does Labour deserve not to be referred to the police like every other party will be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261c14fd4c9944d38968e9c5dc4009dfc\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I think I will wait to see whether there will be any egg on anyone\u2019s face, because I have to tell the House that the National Party bumper stickers I am holding have no authorisation on them and no electoral agent on them. Any member of the public of New Zealand can pick them up right now, and they say \u201CParty vote National\u201D. They are on their way to the Electoral Commission for it to decide whether there will be some egg on the National Party\u2019s face, because its members are the ones who have been berating every other party in this House for not keeping to the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eb8a553305b4efa92aa09502b78e9d0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of the Electoral Act 2007 and the administration of political parties and democratic procedures, what reports has she received in respect of an injunction brought in the High Court in Christchurch regarding the Selwyn National Party selection\u2014a second court hearing, I might add\u2014in which the judge found that there was a case to answer that the National Party did not follow democratic procedures, but, rather, sought to prop up one of the most hopeless and useless members of Parliament, Mr David Carter, who is on the front bench of the National Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238c19dbdf0fb49038a6722a963c49991\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is outside the scope of the original question, which was quite specific to administration and those matters under that Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022675faaf1e83f42e7bc205afa6d913fea\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I could quite easily have asked whether the Electoral Commissioner could have decided this issue, because I am talking about section 71 of the Electoral Act, and she has responsibility for that. That is why I could have put the question to the Minister in terms of the Electoral Commissioner\u2019s responsibilities for democratic procedures. But in this case, ipso facto, a court judge has already made the decision. That is why it is relevant. I ask whether I can rephrase the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cec3830c685b476987dc860703346039\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have ruled on the matter, but of course the member is entitled to ask another supplementary question. But I have another supplementary question first, from the Hon Bill English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022050c13c87bda4b58b52a91a9afcaaa29\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the Electoral Commission\u2019s ruling last week to allow the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union to register as a third party means that groups such as Young Labour, Rainbow Labour, and every Labour Party electorate branch will be able to register as a third party, and every one of those groups could legally spend a further $120,000 on election advertisements, on top of Labour\u2019s allocation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c61503b3eb39433695c4fed44b569eb0\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I would say to those groups that they might like to have a go at registering, but I very much doubt that their attempts would be accepted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022656b46901c8548629257b8f1a85fa0da\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister intend to refer to the Electoral Commissioner an article\u2014and its substance\u2014from the Christchurch Press in respect of a High Court decision to do with party political, undemocratic procedures related to the Selwyn electorate, with two occasions, now, on which the nomination for the seat has been reopened; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b0d537fe615453e9ef811c407fb3f04\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder whether you would give a ruling on whether this matter is sub judice, or, in fact, is the Minister being asked to decide that it is not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e0667e5866e4364a22bae3cef9e8d14\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: That is pretty typical, is it not? The decision of the court has been published. How on earth could the case be sub judice now? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b170e0fe5874205a908d73a0b417770\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If members want to remain in this Chamber, they will hear points of order in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022137099309cae4c0b82199f2b8e878a64\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It is a long time since the Rt Hon Winston Peters practised law. It is an interim injunction, and therefore it is part of an ongoing case. The case is still substantially before the courts. It is sub judice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223164bd6f7e174f05af1015d12dc28e04\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: One should not have to repeat this point. There would have been a case for it being sub judice pending the hearing of the injunction proceedings, but that hearing is complete. Justice Panckhurst has given his decision. He said the National Party acted undemocratically, and that is why the procedure has been suspended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b640db4bf32645fcac28fb9fe2129838\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: No, he didn\u2019t; he did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205a041ec3c5048fab1cbff25e1f27a11\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265086d6ec8eb4f53bd1dbf06981b5d7c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is to be heard in silence. Dr Smith, that is your last warning. Would the member please complete his point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aa33ad2bd1d40e3851df470011bda84\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: The judge has decided that there is a substantive case to be answered that the Selwyn candidate proceedings were undemocratic. The decision has been announced. There is no court case pending at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f3616fdc9d04a30809751a1cf212b3b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but if I understood what Mr Brownlee said, it is in fact an interim injunction, and I want to check that point. I rule the question out of order at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229463ec5181244fc38a40b167f813d33a\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister heard reports that over the weekend the Labour Party deleted a page from its website that explained the close links between Labour and its trade union affiliates, and does she think that Labour\u2019s effort to remove that page from the website mean that the Government is being open and transparent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d32319cd08f4c2fb375c9cf39a5ab69\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called the Labour Party!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022556fe27d6c24436e89116821e31e4849\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so why did Labour take it off the website\u2014about the links between it, the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union, and the Service and Food Workers Union, when it deletes information from Labour\u2019s website detailing how closely tied they are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e987def4310547ccace94b800522491a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not heard any such reports. I would think that hardly any New Zealander would not know that there has been a link between the union movement and Labour for almost 90 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240bd834e0f32431aac7644dd9a7b7d17\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: If, as the Minister stated, the purpose of the legislation was to stop groups that are closely affiliated to political parties from registering as third parties and spending large amounts of money on attacking Labour\u2019s opponents, why does she endorse the Electoral Commission\u2019s view that unions that are represented on Labour\u2019s ruling council are able to register as third parties in order to attack National?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e97ce1e106774f22bd4c91db5d7a529e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I support the decision of the Electoral Commission, which was backed up by a Crown Law opinion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fbab98b1e2a479b8af24860bd682647\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a Christchurch Press article that says that last year Mr David Carter MP was declared the National Party candidate for Selwyn, every other candidate having been pressured to stand down\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261c5149acb4840e5a19b1d0014c93579\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da9914a0397b487abab00739b2bb30dd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that this matter has been the subject of an injunction, and now he is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eb45f9783ae49b9aad69ef64821cb89\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234718284554b4a2490e55b4350de56e8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014going to stand on the list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e1af24247674a9eb34681cca01ad02e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242648101abf8467da81d78d423000537\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. We note that Mr Peters was able to read at length the content of the document, which everyone has agreed he can freely table\u2014it is not unusual for people to get access to information already published in newspapers. We also notice that when National members seek leave to table documents, they do not get that same opportunity to point to the most salient matters in the documents, and that you rather quickly move to seek the leave of the House for the tabling. We would like some consistency if we could.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fe23f86c7044b0fb1305ce5566bf83a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member; I understand his point. I do not think it is specific to only one party. I am endeavouring to enforce Speakers\u2019 rulings 135/7 and 136/3. I attempt to ensure that when members seek leave to table documents they do so succinctly, and that it is not used as an opportunity to make another speech. Members need to know exactly what is in the document, and that is what I endeavour to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c08a82cdafe344e597a83619f9b05f9c\u0022\u003EElection Spending\u2014Parliamentary Service Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1acf7cc0ba64f4da7ad2a3c366b9372\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Is it Government policy that Parliamentary Service - funded materials, similar to the 2005 pledge card produced by the Labour leader\u2019s office, should not count towards a party\u2019s election expenses; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00226609503a660540429a5eb9f8ff89f6f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226609503a660540429a5eb9f8ff89f6f2\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The intention of Parliament is contained in the Electoral Finance Act. The Electoral Commission is responsible for determining what constitutes election advertising. The responsibility for Parliamentary Service\u2019s funding does not lie with the Minister of Justice; it is the responsibility of another Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217d93e98e0d44505887861e59677d846\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell us why material such as the Government\u2019s pamphlet entitled We\u2019re Making a Difference for Everyone, found to be an election advertisement for the Labour Party and paid for out of taxpayers\u2019 money that was provided by Parliamentary Service, should not count towards Labour\u2019s election spending cap?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db03665bbf294880a8ad41847f69b140\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The Electoral Commission has ruled that the pamphlet We\u2019re Making a Difference for Everyone, which was printed, published, and distributed last year\u2014one copy of which we believe was inadvertently handed out this year\u2014will have to be apportioned against Labour Party expenses. That will happen. I suspect it could be around 10 or 20c. But then, of course, this \u201CJoin the Conversation\u201D card was printed this year\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a032f5176f74425a44a66d193da99ee\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022196e00bb62a14964b371bf77f56c1269\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes, it was! It was handed out this year, and it was paid for by Parliament. Maybe it ought to be checked out as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e358d0bbb2a24670ab648a91cf305cdf\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister answer the question I asked, which was why should something that the Electoral Commission determined is an election advertisement not count towards the election expenses of the Labour Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223603e0f17a9442cda41d12075c08a202\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The National Party members surrounding the member were shouting so loud he did not hear my answer. He did not listen to the answer because he is too busy thinking of the next question. I said that the pamphlet has been ruled as an election advertisement by the Electoral Commission. Any of those pamphlets that have been distributed this year have to count against the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022881bf492dfc744e6942896e7ee799996\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does that answer mean that material referred to in an email from Kath Allen, senior communications adviser in the Prime Minister\u2019s office, where she clearly instructs Labour MPs to use a new version of a pamphlet, authorised by Labour Party Secretary Mike Smith, should also be counted as a Labour election expense; and does the email not confirm that material funded by the taxpayer and acknowledged by Labour to be an election advertisement is being organised by the Prime Minister\u2019s office and that Labour is trying to avoid its being counted as an election expense?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e494df9225de4cb98f882de2029292d7\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No; and no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223378319fdf940c8a92d057ba47182b8\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister table the 1 April pack for MPs referred to by Kath Allen, senior communications adviser in the Prime Minister\u2019s office\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022583ff1a056cb48a1bacb992fa6cd8ed9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: He cannot ask me to table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022729d613702d94177854500d3f64d0797\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member should please just continue with the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b4e6cebcdd42d791131d7490560687\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, in a question I can ask for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc2072eb796447b99d1d61418d4499ae\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You can ask. You can seek the leave of the House. Everybody knows that. Would you please continue the question. Start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeef2be68aae4d71b32f2a66e992a242\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister table the 1 April pack held by Labour MPs referred to in the email from Kath Allen, senior communications adviser in the Prime Minister\u2019s office, so we can find out for sure that Labour is using taxpayers\u2019 money to fund material it knows is an election advertisement and is trying to avoid it being counted as an election expense?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222594e48663d74cf3b7a8b5dedcd1a505\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No, I will not table it, for one simple reason: because it is not anything to do with the National Party, to begin with. Secondly, it has not been distributed to any member of the public, so it does not have to count against anything. The National Party received an email that was destined for Labour members and has decided to use it. That could have been done by other members of this House, including myself, who have received emails destined just for National members but have decided that it would be a mistake and have never used them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228be77dc0a5b8448d8ef294e9fc397ddb\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm the mess and chaos her legislation created when Labour put into the Electoral Finance Act a clause that was an attempt to exclude any publicly funded material from counting as an election expense, and that now members of Parliament are finding out that material that is funded by parliamentary funds can be an election advertisement, when she thought she had excluded it, and could be an election expense, when she thought she had excluded it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227388c968746f4070b20369af4fef8754\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: All I can say to that member is that if he is in any doubt about what he ought to do and what his party ought to do, he should get advice from the Electoral Commission. It is giving out very good advice. What the National Party wants to do is pick and choose from that advice. It accepts the Electoral Commission\u2019s decision on the Labour Party booklet but it does not accept the Electoral Commission\u2019s decision on a third party being able to register. Those members cannot pick and choose\u2014either they believe the commission is doing the job or they do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc2364d05e4744a7b870e41b3700fd21\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the Electoral Finance Act was put together by Labour as a way of punishing its critics, that it was done so badly that all parties in this House, including her own, are struggling day by day to work out how to comply with it, and that the only exception is that Labour members believe they are above the law and should not be referred to the police when they break it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be16aa48f00b464dbbf379ab3c0cac17\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, the Labour Party does not believe it is above the law. I suspect that the National Party does, because it has had this material on its website since 12 January this year; the public can get it off the website, and it is not authorised as an election advertisement. Secondly, the Labour Party did not bring in the Act to regulate other parties in this House. The Act was brought in to address the old rorters across on the other side of the House, who were busy with their fingers in the pockets of big business, trying to buy an election, and who were caught out by very good detective work by the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0e09c6c43e643ae96fa9e64a821204c\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Minister might want to correct the impression she has given the House. National has not used that kind of insignia for a long time, and the Minister has now just confirmed that she printed it off a website. It was not actually published, yet she claimed earlier it had been published and distributed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd218d9f8a18483c93aad4c87d4bfee0\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: This material is available to members of the public today. A member of the public took this off the National Party website. It says: \u201CVote National Party. Party vote National.\u201D It is not authorised in any way at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6dd1fd83f074e7c95bf29c8eadb30e1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the 1 April material referred to outlined things such as the cut in business tax, the introduction of employer contributions on KiwiSaver, the increase in the minimum wage, and the removal of the cap on charitable giving; if so, is she prepared to support amending legislation to allow the National Party to publicise to all households in the country the fact that it opposed all of those measures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e19ad31a65c42c6b9c74fe41e343282\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I do not actually think it is necessary. I think that most members of the public in New Zealand know that the National Party has opposed everything this Government has done to help working people in New Zealand. I do not think we need to tell the public that; they know it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022abed7a5f43cb4922ae708fdb9f1a171b\u0022\u003EFree-trade Agreement, New Zealand - China\u2014Primary Production\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd151297ae1e4b83bc512286f1fe7de9\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Is she concerned that the preferential trade deal with China risks New Zealand becoming little else but a producer of raw primary products again; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6b45d4e2b40452ea37100876b34f69d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6b45d4e2b40452ea37100876b34f69d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E No; in part because I think the member\u2019s question misrepresents the nature of much of our primary production, and also because our specialised manufacturers will also gain an advantage. A good number of those manufacturers are currently in China exploring opportunities. The agreement provides considerable benefits in areas such as education, environmental services, engineering, computer services, and investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243311b309ecf4f268706fba66dc0b584\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree that New Zealand\u2019s contribution to climate change will get worse if this deal, as predicted, leads to an unrestrained expansion of dairy; and is this what she had in mind when she said that New Zealand would lead the world in going carbon neutral?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b748dad67fb4bc6bd6d125a415f45e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The thing that we have to achieve in New Zealand is the ability to expand our agricultural production while reducing our carbon footprint. There is no answer to New Zealand\u2019s economic and social future in simply trying to go backwards 250 years to some kind of imagined heaven in which we danced around maypoles but unfortunately died in large numbers before the age of 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b02f3f9361ce41bd8e8fadd8c66a1f2b\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether New Zealand is \u201Clittle more than a producer of raw primary products\u201D, or are New Zealand\u2019s primary products based on enormous investment in highly advanced scientific research and development, and world-leading technology, right across the supply chain?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b67b8e471b274460bf28b7c51e544c33\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: This country has invested heavily in world-leading research and development in primary production, added-value processing, and marketing in distance markets. That investment has made us a producer of a choice of high-value food and pastoral products\u2014including wine, and other products\u2014in affluent markets, including the emerging middle-class markets in China and India. The Fast Forward programme of a $700 million investment in these areas is another sign of this Government\u2019s commitment to intensifying those processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca8f576c9f5a42beb9208c909bb90bea\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Prime Minister expect that the preferential trade agreement with China will do to New Zealand\u2019s level of debt, given that our agreement with a tiny country like Singapore has actually increased our balance of payments deficit by more than $1 billion, and now makes up about a quarter of our total trade deficit in 2007?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8741f750341453f93fe2bb96f9e7916\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Much of our oil comes through Singapore, and that is a large contributor to the trade deficit with Singapore. Once you have a free-trade agreement some trade gets routed through those countries that may be part of that free-trade agreement. What we anticipate is that there will be a much more significant expansion of New Zealand exports to China than Chinese exports to New Zealand, against the base case of maintaining current tariff levels. We should remember that most of the tariffs on current imports from China are due to be largely phased out in any case, irrespective of the Chinese free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246ede8e1948b4108a09aa91baa2ab2a5\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not true that the memorandum of understanding on labour issues is even weaker than that attached to the previous New Zealand - Thailand free-trade agreement\u2014and who would have thought that that was possible\u2014and that the new memorandum does nothing to stop Chinese manufacturers from sending us goods produced by forced prison labour, child labour, or pitifully paid sweatshop labour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271d698eede72464d9ca9b3885eaef479\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: To have any kind of agreement on labour standards with China is a major breakthrough in terms of free-trade agreements and demonstrates the value of continuing to maintain engagement. I find it very strange that a party that likes to claim to be internationalist on some matters believes that the best way of dealing with the world\u2019s emerging most important power in economic terms is to try to isolate ourselves from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5d866a0e68446ee885c00a7bd324f95\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: What impact is the extension of commitments in the area of construction in the agreement with China likely to have on the ability of New Zealand firms to participate in rebuilding and maintaining our own infrastructure here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e8d331e5b554df081ebc279321a57e9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not anticipate it to have any large impact in that regard. Indeed, there will, of course, be impacts in reverse in terms of the ability of New Zealand firms to participate in construction in China. The real underlying issue here is whether New Zealand wants to become a high-value-added, high-quality economy, in which case we are not trying to compete with what China is doing. We are trying to compete in different parts of the market. One of the reasons why New Zealand can be the first developed country to have a free-trade agreement with China is that there is a large level of complementarity rather than competition between the two economies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f2a35aea2d34d1dbe3ab73887475989\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e651fac4f5e744bf9d5c4acfcd2525c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e651fac4f5e744bf9d5c4acfcd2525c6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. In relation to the last question that I asked, I ask whether the Minister wants to clarify her answer, because it would be of interest to the House. The material she waved around is from National\u2019s 2005 policy archive. She seems to be seriously suggesting to the House and to all parties that any material from past elections\u2014in this case, 3 years old\u2014will have to be authorised according to the current law. Could she, firstly, explain where the material actually came from, so that everyone knows the truth instead of what she made up; and, secondly, whether we will all be bound by that opinion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022947a813eb8bf403d8c07a0e09580567b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister wish to comment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002224f24947fa0d422995321eb7a91a31fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224f24947fa0d422995321eb7a91a31fa\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I take exception to the member claiming that I made it up. I ask him to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af167d30419941c4816906b7b87ad42a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has asked. Please withdraw and apologise. Offence has been taken at the allegation of not telling the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022640a049e3b934491acf7e76a321e456b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022640a049e3b934491acf7e76a321e456b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00229249a88d45df463daacbe785024de338\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229249a88d45df463daacbe785024de338\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I received the material today from a member of the public who went on to the National Party website wanting to know what its party policy was on communication, broadcasting, and roading. This material is what came up for the member of the public. On the material, it says: \u201CParty Vote National\u201D. I think it should be sent to the Electoral Commission to see whether it complies with the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e484162061f445b094102c8afd248dc0\u0022\u003EEnergy Supply\u2014Thermal Generation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b13c3f9982d406395faadfb8263027c\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy: Does he stand by his statement made when launching the New Zealand Energy Strategy on 11 October last year that \u201CThe government does not believe it is in the interests of the country for the SOEs to build any more base-load thermal generation.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002255e3f5ebb05c4ba08ef35c77133d8105\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255e3f5ebb05c4ba08ef35c77133d8105\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do, because the Labour-led Government has a vision for a sustainable New Zealand, which means having more renewable electricity rather than more fossil-fuelled electricity. The Government is unlike the National Party, which does not even have a policy on energy and has members who are saying all sorts of contradictory things because they do not want to be pinned down on what they really stand for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297e3a4e2a1044e90b724e3ac6a7ebfce\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, is the Government allowing Genesis Energy to progress a proposal to build a 240 to 400 megawatt gas-fired plant at Rodney\u2014a plant that will be the biggest new project since the Huntly station itself\u2014if it is not for the fact that the Government has a very contradictory policy when it comes to energy security, particularly on the thermal ban and the idea of electricity generation being 90 percent renewable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c785e54e0f934970b30401ad158b7d35\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: As has been reported in the Dominion Post just on Monday, Genesis has already confirmed that it will, of course, comply with the Government\u2019s legislation and would not put any proposal to shareholding Ministers unless the project complied with it. I think it is more interesting that last week Gerry Brownlee was in Australia looking at coal and carbon capture and storage trials. You know, I have never seen Mr Brownlee at the launch of any renewable electricity or energy proposal\u2014not one of the many projects\u2014that we have seen in New Zealand. But there he was flying to Australia to pursue his love affair with coal, which he says he thinks is \u201Csexy\u201D. I am asking why National does not come clean and admit that when it finally releases its energy policy, it will be about favouring coal and fossil fuels and putting renewables back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fbb9a86ad0b45b6bbdfe880572ed711\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Is that a short answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5b42d442cfb44a282f4ab0f6c271548\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that answer was too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc89ee08a7904731abac5b8a08a03b2a\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government allowing Genesis to advance proposals to build a 240 to 480 megawatt gas-fired plant at Rodney at the same time as telling New Zealanders that the Government has a ban on thermal plants and that we are moving to 90 percent renewable generation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022382af084fb6f417e882ecfb3aeed998f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: We are moving to 90 percent renewables\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a54540cb39394e5ea996336fbf898d1f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: No, we\u2019re not; we\u2019re going the other way!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202b0c30f1225438182cabfd2c21c2a37\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are not; 175 megawatts of additional renewable capacity is required each year to achieve it, and 300 megawatts is being built this year. We have always made it clear that there will be a need for some more peaking plants, and perhaps the Rodney proposal may be one that is needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a52302db67344dfb68f613115fabe4c\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: Is New Zealand in step with other OECD countries in aiming to increase its proportion of renewable electricity from around 70 percent to 90 percent of the total amount by 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc52dcd97a044e8e8412c3acff986bb7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we are. I am advised that Scotland\u2019s target is to go from 16 percent to 50 percent of renewable electricity by 2020, Spain\u2019s target is to go from 19 percent to 29 percent by 2010, Austria\u2019s target is to go from 62 percent to 78 percent, and Australia\u2019s target is to go from 8 percent to 20 percent by 2020. Those are just a few of the dozens of targets around the world. Our target is in step with the targets of other countries, but we are lucky to be starting from a higher base than those countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d65c3daf280a4a25a0459c16e869a7d7\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Minister aware of the Genesis proposal when he told the Wind Energy Association conference this morning that it would take only one or two gas-fired plants to be built at the moment, to make the 90 percent renewables target unattainable in the future; if so, will he be asking Genesis Energy to back off from the Rodney proposal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcea740167ed4b6c941014dc0a34e441\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: What I said to the wind conference this morning, which I have said on a number of occasions before, is that if one or two large gas-fired baseload generation facilities were built, then that would close out renewables. That does seem to be National\u2019s ambition. At this fork in the road, we can go down the road to renewables or we can go down the road towards using more fossil fuel. The Government is pursuing a target of 90 percent coming from renewable sources. To achieve that, it is necessary to have restrictions on additional baseload fossil-fuelled generation. That is what we have, and that is what National opposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ada68cd2ef4d4bda8d8a53d45c2042ea\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that under this Government\u2019s watch 75 percent of the new electricity generation built has been thermal, that the percentage of renewable electricity generation has plummeted to only 66 percent of total capacity, and that given this sorry record the public should not be particularly surprised that the trend is continuing, despite the Government\u2019s rhetoric about a 90 percent renewables target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b472b73dce014f59a4eb71fac7a00fa2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the National member shows his confusion. There is a difference between capacity and output. Our target is for 90 percent of electricity to come from renewable sources by 2025. We are on our way towards that; National opposes it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a23b39f5241c483495ee66c8fb5e6294\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I have a document in front of me that shows that the figures I just used are for output. The Minister may be interested to know that. I seek leave to table the document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f5117ad67c94a77948f780453eefe51\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou e te Whare tae r\u0101 an\u014D ki ng\u0101 whanaunga o H\u0101moa\u2014talofa lava. He aha t\u0101 te K\u0101wanatanga hei tautoko i ng\u0101 kamupene p\u0113r\u0101 i a Tuar\u014Dpaki kei te hoko, kei te huri hiko mai i ng\u0101 ng\u0101wh\u0101 i M\u014Dkai?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Madam Speaker, and to those of us in the House, including relatives from Samoa\u2014talofa lava. What will the Government do to support companies like the Tuar\u014Dpaki power company, which generates and markets electricity from the M\u014Dkai geothermal field?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022202245b9d30e4613bbbc136dc0ea067e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: A number of M\u0101ori organisations are partnering with State-owned enterprises to bring forward geothermal electricity generation proposals. That has been of benefit to both those Maori organisations and the country. We are very lucky to have our wonderful geothermal resource, which is already affordable, which provides substantial baseload, and which operates at higher average load factors throughout a year than any other source of generation, including gas or coal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c4e596adc574cb995205abb88fd5cd0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9f5e04ea458445fa635241d62479279\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9f5e04ea458445fa635241d62479279\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder whether the Minister of Justice would like a further opportunity to correct an answer. She told the House that only one copy of the We\u2019re Making a Difference to Everyone pamphlet had been distributed. We have reports from a member of the public\u2014just one at the moment\u2014who said the pamphlets were on display, many of them, in Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s office last week, and that the person had picked up five of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5552b8685e848248afb20593bf0923e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister wish to make any comment? There is no comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f48b9900b0248b7973f2e145d89e01e\u0022\u003EFree-trade Agreement, New Zealand - China\u2014Benefits\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f70d6e37d6044fbea37fb237e6e517d9\u0022\u003EMARTIN GALLAGHER (Labour\u2014Hamilton West)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Trade: What are the benefits to New Zealand of the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002256cabe48c3a647bcb0e606f6a84419d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256cabe48c3a647bcb0e606f6a84419d4\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Acting Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E The New Zealand - China free-trade agreement signed in Beijing yesterday will result in a net benefit to New Zealanders of between $225 million and $350 million per annum for each of the next 20 years. The benefits fall in three main areas of the economy. In terms of trade and goods, the free-trade agreement will result in an annual tariff saving to our exporters of $115.5 million based on current trade. In the area of trade and services, the free-trade agreement gives New Zealand service suppliers an ability to operate in China generally on the same basis as domestic suppliers. In terms of investment, New Zealand investments in China will get the same treatment and protection that Chinese nationals investing in China get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211572a2a52d047f99e04742a15b5f301\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: What response to the free-trade agreement has the Minister seen from industry, producer, and union groups?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022090310fbd8f44a7abae144894a8fd965\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen statements welcoming the significant benefits that the free-trade agreement will provide to New Zealand for many groups including Federated Farmers, Meat and Wool New Zealand, Export New Zealand, the Employers and Manufacturers Association, and Business New Zealand. These organisations have all pointed to the benefits of securing preferential access to New Zealand\u2019s fourth-largest export market. I have also seen comments from Peter Conway, the economist with the Council of Trade Unions. He has said that the phase-down period for the remaining New Zealand tariffs was over a reasonable time period, the labour memorandum gave a channel for unions to raise labour right issues, and there were caps and controls in the case of temporary migration under the agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3e34aeaa89e40e49a01ac6130d1e4c8\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: What examples can the Minister provide of how specific sectors of the economy will benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022212436e126504a3889da29639ba13d4e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: There are many. but some of the more significant ones are that dairy has an export value of $363 million and amounts to 18 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total exports to China, and tariffs on dairy products will be phased out over a period of between 5 and 12 years; fish and other seafoods, which have an export value of $90 million and amount to 4 percent of our total exports to China, will be eliminated over 5 years; tariffs on wine, for example, are currently 14 to 30 percent and will be phased out over 5 years; and the tariff on ice cream, currently 19 percent, will be phased out over 5 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d4e984ccdd584e768fc175b8be2b2b02\u0022\u003EPublic Health Bill\u2014Risk Factors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022892442eaba7742a2aca29fcf528de30a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is food a \u201Crisk factor\u201D for non-communicable diseases, such as obesity, which could be restricted by regulations made under clause 374(x) of the Public Health Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf2b615cf304461babe862fe5fb7560f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf2b615cf304461babe862fe5fb7560f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes\u2014obviously it is difficult to be obese without eating food. However, the Government has no plans to regulate food at this time. At the same time, the current Act has been in place since 1956; it would not be responsible to undertake a once-in-a-generation rewrite without appropriately future-proofing the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f349b58d15dd4a1082b48e12a2e6c680\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the nanny State Labour Government seeking such wide powers that would even allow the Government to halt at the border any foods the \u201Cfood police\u201D object to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc29bad70b6245849a4904e2915b68ed\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I can do no better than to quote the Herald on Sunday, which said that the Opposition\u2019s position on this bill will have to do a lot better than making it up and dispensing \u201Csmart one-liners\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022226ae65f80014c92a7f18a1f885257c8\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: If the Government has no plans at this time to regulate food, why is it proposing wide regulation powers that would enable the nanny State to ban all food and alcohol sponsorship of sports teams, to tell all restaurants what food they can serve, and to ban fish and chips after 8 p.m. at night\u2014yet more typical nanny State Labour interference in the lives of New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022001b8551fc994b029c005a83ace05f29\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Again, to quote the Herald on Sunday: \u201Cthe bill provides for voluntary codes and even allows that non-voluntary codes would, for the first 3 years, be non-binding. It is hard to think of a less hard-line approach to a crisis. For a crisis it is.\u201D Forty percent of Pasifika people in South Auckland are obese. What policy does National have to solve the obesity epidemic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ba8123817b4422db410af05de189326\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government want regulation-making powers that could make it compulsory for every school in the country to stop kids from bringing a birthday cake to school because the nanny State\u2019s \u201Cfood police\u201D object?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f81e00f40b3f4282b81308525d5ca9d4\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: She flogged Gerry Brownlee\u2019s afternoon tea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c56adca721444cebb156ae8e7e6d8bb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Bummer! The logical flaw in the Opposition argument is that that birthday cake incident is in the past tense. The bill is in the future tense, and that incident therefore could not have relied upon the bill to have occurred. In other words, it is a sad waste of Gerry Brownlee\u2019s lunch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d410da3659974309a84fe93b7532ca2f\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, is the Government proposing such broad, unfettered regulation-making powers, which would allow it to ban birthday cakes in every school but could also require a picture of fat bellies or gangrenous toes on every packet of potato chips\u2014because that is exactly the powers that this Minister and this nanny-State Government want to give to themselves in the Public Health Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc3b35979b4d4f98b334d51c5647008f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: When I look at the member opposite I have no worries, at all, that the Government is going to be returned. He stands under his personal dark cloud while 60 percent of the Counties-Manukau population are at risk of having type 2 diabetes. National is bereft of policy except for putting up general practitioners\u2019 fees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc5589d4b92848c3b338501126fa515a\u0022\u003EMinimum Wage\u2014Changes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022481e5187713f441a9fc11b1ecff36c06\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: What changes to the minimum wage took effect on 1 April 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225c4eff81be6a4b4dbd11a48a91a6a7c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c4eff81be6a4b4dbd11a48a91a6a7c1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The adult minimum wage rose from $11.25 an hour to $12 an hour on 1 April. As well as that, the youth minimum rate of $9 an hour for employees aged 16 and 17 ceased from 1 April and was replaced by a new entrants minimum hourly rate of $9.60 or 80 percent of the adult minimum wage. The new entrants rate can be paid to 16 and 17-year-olds for the first 200 hours or 3 months of employment, and then the adult minimum wage applies. This is the ninth increase in the minimum wage that the Labour-led Government has delivered, with a total increase of $5 for adults since we came into office in 1999, and of $7.80 for 16 and 17-year-olds with the requisite experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289922b01409e4e95a8293484e2d91311\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen other reports on wages and labour relations in general?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f1fa4c3e694901bc8a20f5c0e0dd2e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have seen reports showing that between 1990 and 1999, under a National Government, in real terms the wage gap between Australia and New Zealand grew from 19 percent to 28 percent, an increase of 50 percent. The same report shows that between 1999 and 2007, under a Labour Government, in real terms the wage gap between Australia and New Zealand did not widen. The report also shows that the National Party has opposed every opportunity to support real wage growth to workers. Apart from opposing every increase to the minimum wage, National opposed the Employment Relations Act and the Holidays Act. After first opposing paid parental leave it looks as if National has flip-flopped, but who really knows?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e1ee7485d5248eea536a7df53f46c16\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has the Minister seen on the issue of wages?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4294a28568d48d4b26ae0b22e3a5cd2\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a slippery report from Mr Key\u2014and this is amazing from someone who cannot do an hour\u2019s work at a time in this House\u2014saying: \u201CWe would love to see wages drop.\u201D I have seen subsequent reports trying to explain away the comment as being light-hearted. Then he tried to say he was talking about Australian wages. Then he tried to say that it did not count because he said it in a caf\u00E9. Then he said that he had not finished his thought. When none of those efforts worked, efforts were made to bully the editor into sacking the reporter. Subsequently, a clarification was forced, but everyone who read it knew that John Key had said it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a89b9abc9c847b9b911c96944aaeaf4\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267a1a017a2ae454d89be2b26acff6239\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is quite right. Would the Minister please succinctly address the question and not give a political speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db62bd70ee5a4e959932cbfbbd14a418\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: More than that, I am advised that at every opportunity the National Party has\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ad84ec5b3784bbd878d147882e5db50\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. There is, as I think we all know, some acceptable standards about the length of answers. I felt you were very tolerant towards the member. When you pulled him up he then continued with a further element of his speech. We cannot all answer questions at that length, or start asking them at that length.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206770f924b734cbcacd0c167799af61b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think the member should have said \u201Cslippery\u201D, and left it at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a62849e6d8774f8ba542b0ca8b35cca4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am not sure that that is a point of order. We had this discussion in the House about the length of questions and answers. For a short period I think members were trying. That answer was far too long; the member is finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ff1058a8a8a48cea13dd462f06e38f1\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that answer, and noting that the Minister is a relatively new Minister of Labour, will he confirm that the $12 minimum wage was put in the confidence and supply agreement by New Zealand First; and will he give us the response he gave to me when I advised him, on behalf of New Zealand First, that we would be striving very, very hard to ensure that the minimum wage will go up regularly every year from now on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022793fb40d7c914d53a89f5539c4f98009\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that best endeavours were made to do that\u2014not an absolute guarantee, but best endeavours was part of that confidence and supply agreement with New Zealand First. I am glad that the member is saying that he wants to be returned to Parliament and to have a similar arrangement in the future, because there is only one party that will do it with him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228302c485264d42279e5aba2adee0cb76\u0022\u003EBiofuels\u2014Sustainable Sources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022769d73de49a84a608170b6b1d55cf6a3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy: Does he believe New Zealanders may have to accept initial volumes of biofuels from unsustainable sources, as reported in the New Zealand Herald on 3 April 2008 under the headline \u201CParker pushes biofuel agenda\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c386577c3caf45499ab34a712619b36d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c386577c3caf45499ab34a712619b36d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Like the Greens, I believe we can avoid importing unsustainable biofuels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e2370e58182490ca45435db8fce74c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why on earth is his Government so insistent on introducing biofuels this year, before any sustainable standards are in place, when the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment has said that imported biofuels will put New Zealand\u2019s clean, green image at risk and that his bill should be dropped, and when the United Kingdom House of Commons audit committee has called for a moratorium on biofuels until there are rules on their environmental integrity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d6afade3da24e948035552b367342db\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Existing biofuels produced and used in New Zealand are from sustainable sources. The member Dr Nick Smith has indeed noted that there are additional sources of biofuels, like tallow, that can also be brought forward for use sustainably. The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment is, of course, right to be concerned about sustainability issues. The bill already includes provisions around that and, as I have previously said, we are happy for the committee to tighten these provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272080d6108a04050b2f53431a9c70a20\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister share with the House the support he has seen for the Biofuel Bill to proceed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b18fc6393e1448a80d0ee368f7499e7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen reports that sustainable tallow to bio-diesel producers will be unable to proceed with their multimillion-dollar production plants without a mandatory sales obligation. A number of these are pleading for the bill to go ahead, and they assure the select committee that biofuels can be produced sustainably and in volume in New Zealand. Yet again we are seeing National wavering in its support, showing once again that it is all talk and just wants delay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022451dc9dca96a4509b4431ecf200d7b84\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How was it that the Prime Minister could cite \u201Csustainability\u201D 38 times when opening Parliament last year and the Government plasters all over billboards and publications the Government slogan \u201CEveryone can have sustainability\u201D, but its officials cannot define what it actually means until 2011?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f69669245f394633a26488406f378cb2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Despite Dr Smith\u2019s pretence at being blue-green, here we have National again being consistent, opposing every meaningful step the Government takes on sustainability\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298da5bd3fae14c44a23405e3b9b12cb4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I would be very happy to answer Labour\u2019s questions about the Bluegreens and our vision for New Zealand, but my question was about the definition of \u201Csustainability\u201D and the advice from the Minister\u2019s officials that they cannot define what it means until 2011, despite the fact that the Government has repeated the phrase over and over again. I think that the Minister should address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022496e9c6050d540ba93274c9677d76e61\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just think that the member should enable the Minister to finish his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873e95c471e240cdad12202a9cb0e63a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s question related to sustainability. We have the member criticising us for taking insufficient amounts of electricity from renewable sources, while Mr Brownlee calls for more coal. Just last week we had Dr Smith saying to the New Zealand Herald that the emissions trading scheme should be delayed\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209dcb0b1e92c45f5b6d09007b3dcf78b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Those Ministers have responsibility for Government policy. They do not\u2014thankfully\u2014have responsibility for the National Party. Every time they get a difficult question, they recite all sorts of misinformation about National and they do not address the question. I simply ask you, Madam Speaker, to ask the Minister to address the question of how the Government can recite all this sustainability rhetoric when its officials say that they cannot define what it means until 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbae2c0f7e03426a869d4a3ac3b08195\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd8e12adab5f4889b8b8ecd89a77422e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Now that we have settled that issue, there was an interjection from Mr Brownlee, which I am sure you heard and for which he should apologise and withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b66884cce84f7dba8d1a7c42cb29d2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Would the member please withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bafb07475cfc4033b90fec7624ce1c2b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Mr Parker should expect that sort of comment across the House when he makes misleading statements. I have never called for an increase in the use of coal. This is some little piece of special thinking of his own, which, as many other people in the industry have noted, he is prone to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaa5730b5f6f4826b2f0a1ad38ba497e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes quite a serious statement, when he says \u201Cyou should expect\u201D certain statements to be made when debating matter is introduced into the House. It is not for any member to take unto himself or herself the right to try to bully this House or to break the Standing Orders because that member does not like the nature of what is being said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b32e6503a7a4fdcbce8134b6046ebf4\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: If I used the term \u201Cyou\u201D, then I sincerely apologise. I meant that Mr Parker should expect it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea9b9345f02145df926485cfc8dffabe\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. The point is, however, that members know that there is a certain way in which to address issues in this House. Matters are debatable in the House. Frequently statements are made about policies or people that are not agreed with. There are ways of responding to that, and that way is consistent with the Standing Orders. So I would ask all members to do that in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c79a3c9a8bf649e9b496e87bc3e7529e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: My answer was interrupted. Last week we had Dr Smith saying to the New Zealand Herald that the emissions trading scheme should be delayed. Now he wants delays\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221350e218a4f345ff9a69d8ccffc98470\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The question that the Hon David Parker is required to answer is quite simple: why can his officials not give a definition for what \u201Csustainable\u201D means in terms of biofuels until 2011? Whatever we might have said over a range of issues will, of course, be of great interest to the public, but it is of no relevance to the answer to this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022275e2d512bb64b609692da9bd258d57f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question started by quoting the Prime Minister\u2019s record on sustainability in referencing sustainability. I am also doing that and contrasting it with the position taken by National, which says one thing and then does another.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022567952589d834650a07b91ccbfb0c1ff\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister please address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae70a2047f904df1ba4e3732c1c1c44c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: After having called for a delay in the emissions trading scheme, he now wants delays in biofuels. It is obvious that National is deeply divided on these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222168e17c58d543848e45b4a29fc47586\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question is not about the emissions trading system, and it is not about National Party policy. It is actually about Government policy. The simple question is: when the Government has given all this advertising and air time to sustainability, why cannot his officials define what it means, in respect of biofuels, until 2011? The Minister has had five goes at addressing the question. Every single time he has attempted to answer it, he has started by bagging the National Party, for which he is not responsible. I simply ask, and you should ask, that he address the question of Government policy, for which he has responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c990f4a3a15e4378906d67a6bf2ab9e6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is a habit developing from the National Party that when I have the temerity to contrast its members\u2019 rhetoric with their action, they break up my answers. These are the notes I was speaking from. They are not unduly long. I was quoting from a New Zealand Herald article, they quoted from a New Zealand Herald article in the primary question, and I see nothing out of order in my answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e713607b72748b48a397afd6a2168ec\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister claim to have prepared notes for a supplementary question? If, in fact, he does, and they are so clever and so succinct, why does he not just table them and sit down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cbeb35952a3442b921ec513969e2ae9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: That just shows how lacking in experience the front bench of the National Party is. Ministers prepare for question time and it is usually not hard to guess what kinds of supplementary questions members opposite will ask, because they lack any imagination, and therefore Ministers prepare their answers to those prepared supplementary questions, usually typed out for the Opposition by their research unit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b22b696e7b12466fbf243f9342a9f2b2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8e05e67536b4dc48f3f34ba771a47d7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: National is obviously deeply divided on these issues, and despite Dr Smith\u2019s rhetoric\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022590111b7dfab4a0dbc68c66faff77ac9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Minister is not responsible for what National\u2019s view might be. What is disturbing in his prepared answers is that it seems that question time has now deteriorated, to the point where regardless of what the supplementary question is, the Government is going to recite some sort of damning of National policy, rather than the Minister doing Parliament\u2019s proper job of answering in terms of his ministerial responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be0cbfa1a4354672b41b1162eb794e01\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I think if you took the trouble to go through the Hansard you would find that on more occasions than infrequently this member of Parliament always challenges, by way of a point of order, the answers coming from Ministers. He does it all the darn time, as though he is somebody special and someone who has a special licence in this House to carry on in that way. [Interruption] He is right about the humbug, because that is what he engages in. He cannot take it. The Minister spoke only four words the last time, and the member was on his feet, taking a point of order. I say \u201CIf you can\u2019t take it, sunshine, find a new job.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a52ee8e30b84ec8837d65194d3098d5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. I just remind members that the Minister is to address the question. The Speaker is not responsible for the answer. The Standing Orders ask for that. Normally, however, it would be useful if the Minister could finish his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da5cacc2fe7643c683a3c6702c5d43ec\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will conclude by saying that New Zealand should start, and is starting, the transition to sustainable transport fuels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227000f4b392e1413eab3fa94ba3d5bdc0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has not his biofuels policy, damned by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment and by his own admission that it is going to result in the importing of unsustainable biofuels, joined the long list of embarrassing climate change policy failures, of the billion-dollar Kyoto bungle, the \u201Cfart tax\u201D fiasco, the carbon tax debacle, the solar water heating flop, the deforestation disaster, and its thermal electricity ban being overturned by its own State-owned enterprise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa294869b4354f99b966f5c1605365e5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Not at all. In the last week, of course, we have had a release from Biodiesel New Zealand saying it can meet all of New Zealand\u2019s bio-diesel requirements by the end of the year with a product that is sustainably sourced from tallow. National is, I repeat, obviously divided on these issues. Despite Dr Nick Smith\u2019s rhetoric, the senior fossils on his front bench, like Mr Williamson and Dr Lockwood Smith, are in the ascendancy and blue-green is increasingly black and slippery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eef0d301e1c4bd28daa4b9320adc39c\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I realise you are working your way through the interests that various parties have in getting particular positions over question time, but I point you to Speakers\u2019 rulings 139/3 and 139/6. I do not think Mr Parker\u2019s answers have met those requirements at all this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e265404e8c2499cabd123ff75f27548\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I thought the member was going to raise what I think is a legitimate point of order, which is that the Minister is not responsible for National Party policy, and I just remind members of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa08059db2954b2b8e04c90a02370d62\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think I have ever done this before, but I seek leave for an additional supplementary question\u2014we have used up our allocation\u2014because I think there is an issue at the essence of this argument that is being disguised by what is happening, and I would like to try to clarify it with one additional supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9c12321538648db8f83c9294672a8e9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d45b62d35d4747948b9daff282a28f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The Secretary-General of the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon, called last month for a halt on the rush to biofuels, the British Government\u2019s chief scientific adviser says that biofuels are threatening the lives of billions of people, the G8 last month called for strict biofuel standards, the European Union has admitted its biofuel policy has caused serious environmental problems, and the German environment Minister, only last week, stopped plans to require additional biofuels, so why on earth is this Government insisting on proceeding with a policy before standards for sustainability are in place, and when, by his own admission, the policy is going to result in the importation of unsustainable biofuels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220258ccbfc7e2421d8076d10f5aa035af\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before the Minister answers, I must say that that was an example of a very long question. If members have long questions, they are likely to get long answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022050c87488e094dcf966662850e36bc10\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is because the mandatory sales obligation, far from being as extreme as the member proposes, is for a modest 0.5 percent of transport fuel in the first year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a68b516eb394b3bb18a1688fa49dfd5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the House of Commons\u2019 environmental audit report on the difficulties, and the call for a moratorium on biofuels in the United Kingdom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d77285e92a2146efb6dea4782bde807f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa9c147820664fe49c1d2beed697dfe9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the statement by the Secretary-General of the United Nations calling for a comprehensive halt on the implementation of biofuels as a consequence of the global crisis in food prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bc854f5c4f8474bbdbebf513da4a8a6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b223db30a7b46438a2efb7f38fb65d8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You have just seen a member of Parliament take almost 30 minutes, mucking around with the House and raising numerous points of order, and before the question is even answered for the satisfaction of all the House\u2014because there is a colleague here who wants to ask a question\u2014that member rises to his feet in his inimitable, arrogant way and seeks to table all the documents. That is a disgraceful set of proceedings, and he should be brought to heel by his leader rather than behaving like the clown he is. Only he gets away with it, and I would like you to tell me why that is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdb99b49542340e7be257413458f0cb9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will admit that this has been an interesting start to the week with lots of points of order, which have come back into fashion and most of which are not points of order. However, we will persevere. Are there any more questions? There are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257e0118f2d6a472da7f2f68277dd84ef\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister have any concerns, at all, about the principle of growing crops to fuel motor vehicles, knowing that it will increase the price of food and that a significant proportion of the people of this world are starving?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d5a5dce70424a10aee1f2247e47476c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do. That is one of the things that should be addressed in sustainability criteria. I point out that the existing biofuels being produced in New Zealand do not have that effect; tallow to bio-diesel would not have that effect, and neither does sugar cane to ethanol from Brazil.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c69857e85aa74aff9fd37734c8888130\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister been informed by anybody on the select committee of whether his officials informed the committee that they could not define sustainability before 2011 or did they say that that was the year when they expected the international standard to be ready, and does he agree with the Green Party that a New Zealand sustainability standard could actually be ready in a few months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203e8fcd624a94d04b0d148097bf845e5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I agree with both of those propositions. I note that it is actually Green members who have been at the forefront of their wish to see sustainability standards developed and applied for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d48eab7298a342e296e280768ad3d565\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the advice from the Ministry of Economic Development saying that sustainability standards for biofuels could not be developed until 1 January 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b010c4c396544028f4c0a3ea460ed6c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Despite the last point of order raised by New Zealand First, that member got up and did it again. There is a member of the M\u0101ori Party who is seeking to ask a question, and without any regard for him, that member gets up and raises another point of order to seek leave. He knows the convention here that when the questions are finished, a member can seek leave to table\u2014not beforehand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227bd4b18a9f44c5fa14341745421e979\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I quite agree, and I have noted this before. It is a convention, but not more than a convention, that leave is sought at the end of the time, when the supplementary questions are over. But it is only a convention. Members are perfectly entitled to do what they like in this House\u2014and normally they do\u2014as long as it is more or less within the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f86c66b04ef4a75bff532ef4b73979e\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder whether it would be worth your while pointing out to the Rt Hon Winston Peters that it also once used to be a convention for the Minister of Foreign Affairs to agree with Government policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022402b3a9b9810420da62b9280d0d83b0d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. That is a classic example of what is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a49890608f4d55b63a05d8e4f1171d\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D koe, Madam Speaker. Ki te Minita, he aha t\u0101 te K\u0101wanatanga hei tautoko i ng\u0101 kamupene peneh\u012Bni ki te hanga kaupapa kia taea ai e r\u0101tou te toha wh\u0101nui ng\u0101 paraumu hinu \u0101 ng\u0101 r\u0101 e heke iho nei?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings once again to you, Madam Speaker. To the Minister, what is the Government doing to support fuel companies establish a distribution infrastructure necessary to enable widespread use of biofuels in the future?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c545a5f33fd494fb2ef11103276bffa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: A very good question. One of the purposes of the mandatory biofuels obligation is to encourage oil companies to develop the infrastructure that is needed to deliver biofuels in the future. These percentages start low, and in later years grow higher as these industries come on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a031498e2cc497a89b61175abd4bbb0\u0022\u003ERefugee Determination Processes\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022038b90827f4a4b458fd4117c4a1d00fe\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Immigration: Does he have confidence in the Government\u2019s refugee determination processes, and whether the answer be positive or negative, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002258b021ef0caf4eb6b6a4d57362e39c9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258b021ef0caf4eb6b6a4d57362e39c9c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister of Immigration)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Associate Minister of Immigration: Yes, because the Refugee Status Appeals Authority is independent of Ministers, politicians, and officials, and its processes are well-documented, proven, and internationally respected. The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, in its presentation to the select committee on the immigration bill, recommended that \u201Cthe experience and high quality of expertise of refugee status determination, currently located in the Refugee Status Appeals Authority, be preserved in the context of any appellant structures and procedures \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202a2ace7bc764452a9f6c2fdf977ba47\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister reconcile that answer when the issue of the determination of processes concerns those who have been told they cannot stay here and who then go missing, like Bahareh Moradi, a person who came here from Iran using all sorts of fictitious passports, via her brother, who himself smuggled three people into this country, all of whom gave false reasons for being here; and, it having been determined by the appeals authority and the High Court that her case is not valid, why is she still in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffe98ec72eb24feb9ba94a1cb34bc6cc\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Because she absconded and is currently being located, with a view to removing her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c538e9cde67432fbefa709480c0a347\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the same person whose brother claimed on her behalf that she would be prejudiced by his actions and that he himself was being prejudiced by his beliefs, when in fact he is also recorded as visiting Korea 12 times between September 2002 and September 2005 and taking direct flights to Iran on five occasions between September 2003 and September 2005; how does that epitomise a man or family being persecuted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b88af9c43024add935ecf7d6ebc2da4\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It is Ms Moradi whom I assume the member refers to. I preface my comments by saying that, as the member would know himself, it would be inappropriate to make specific and detailed comments about an individual case. But as we know publicly, our procedures are as follows. This case has been to the Refugee Status Board and declined; to the Refugee Status Appeal Authority and declined; to the High Court seeking a judicial review; to the High Court seeking an interim order and declined; and as an appeal to the Associate Minister, my colleague, which he declined to intervene on. The person absconded and conditions were placed on her by the court. The person absconded and is currently in the process of being located, to be removed from the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271e00b92029d44bcac0452a3d8708b97\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How is she still here\u2014or for that matter how are her brothers still here\u2014given that this family is quoted in the court document as weaving \u201Can elaborate and meticulously crafted web of lies\u201D; and which member of Parliament thought it proper, despite this family\u2019s absolutely specious case, to petition this Parliament for us to take up her case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f33cda6dfbed47ac86f48cbb82690333\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that the family members to whom the member refers were accepted as genuine refugees. I say to the member that all cases\u2014he would know this; he has represented cases himself, as have all members of Parliament\u2014are individual, often different, and dealt with on their merits. As to the second part of the member\u2019s question, I say that all members are free to make representations and support migrants to retain their status. As to the point of judgment, I say that that has to be a matter for the member. It is always interesting to note that generally there is far more to cases than is often represented to individual members of Parliament. But it remains the judgment of a member of Parliament as to whether they choose to back an individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1b5e0838a9b4b86a39055c241e7c8ee\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know all that. I want to know which member of Parliament thought that this case was appropriate to make representations on and even petition to Parliament. It is a very specific question. There are 121 options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf58d5fa15fa46f492ff4c2a8a75bb2b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I have no responsibility for actions of individual members of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a79496ef72a449a9c8da0f2208dd0f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: It was Jonathan Coleman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e43d6422c8894725ab65abce3b21b71a\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know that the member there does not have an electorate and does not have constituents, but he will know that it is a convention that when members of Parliament are approached with a petition presented by a constituent they present that petition to Parliament. That would be the duty of a member of Parliament and that is what has taken place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0c3441cfc6244918e9d264fe45d111b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the point is taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002253e1c803105045289bf6749ba4a76a5c\u0022\u003EHousing New Zealand Corporation\u2014Referrals\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022200e2db8dc3e4419ae5e207657fc1869\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY (National\u2014Whangarei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Does the Housing New Zealand Corporation keep accurate referral records sufficient to allow her to categorically rule out corporation referrals to the \u201Csqualid\u201D Kotoku (Kiwiana) and Abiru boarding houses in M\u0101ngere; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u002274a52f84a2f74001be934fa5dd2c581b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274a52f84a2f74001be934fa5dd2c581b\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised that the Housing New Zealand Corporation does not keep referral records. I have been further advised by the corporation that the M\u0101ngere neighbourhood unit has a referral practice, and those two lodges are not on its referral list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c16ed9f678b4f0490c05233e6cb0e4a\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: How, then, can the Minister stand by her adamant statement last week that the corporation does not and did not refer clients to those lodges, given that the corporation does not keep accurate records on referrals to private accommodation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223741ab34b55442238d5794dc74a068d9\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: Because I have asked the corporation. The corporation has undertaken an investigation. The results of that investigation give me confidence that the advice I was given last week applies today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cab8f54eef34dd9a7d9b376dbdcb674\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Minister saying categorically that the Housing New Zealand Corporation has not referred people to those squalid boarding houses in the last 6 months, based on corporation advice, even though the corporation said to the Listener that it is impossible to know who has been referred and where such people have been sent, that no records are kept, and that it cannot guarantee that staff do not send clients there; which advice from the corporation should we believe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226df62fe1c86f46e8bfc9dbd26f641bcf\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: Last week a number of actions were undertaken to ensure that the practice of the neighbourhood unit of not referring people to those two lodges was, in fact, the case\u2014that staff members were not acting outside of the established practice and referring people to those lodges even though they should not be doing that. Last week I encouraged that member to get out and do some legwork around this issue. If he had been to the lodges and asked the managers about this matter, he might have received the same answers that, on investigation, the Housing New Zealand Corporation got. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261d91dfe5c3e4dc8933f1edb2082e12b\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to make a personal statement about my visiting the boarding lodges that the Minister refers to. I have visited the boarding houses and they are squalid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022507b221524df484fb773e3f7cf5b019e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed2c2b3e1fd344bcbe286a477a442b9a\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned about the growing group who are disputing her unequivocal statements about referrals\u2014the Listener, Close Up, three social workers, and the tenants themselves\u2014and if she is concerned about their disputing what she has been saying, why is she not listening to them and improving the situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af72c982e31d474293a5932868a384f3\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: I have to say that Close Up and the Listener are working off the same information, so it is a bit of a complete circle there. I further say that the point is that, in fact, the Close Up programme was simply working off the Listener article; the programme had not done any homework, either. I say to the member that the investigation has been carried out. Corporation staff visited the lodges in person and spoke with the lodge managers, to verify details such as those raised in the Listener article and by the Close Up programme, and to endeavour to find any evidence of such activity. They confirmed that they could not find any evidence to support it. If the member has any evidence, I ask him to please give it to me so that I can have a look at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4b64eeb1f2e47a48a0585160c19185b\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a statement from the Monte Cecilia Housing Trust that \u201CHousing NZ has arrived at the boarding houses with new tenants.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c1ff57bbe1b4f449a2834a9c7b02c8b\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a statement from the Listener that \u201CMany were brought here by Housing New Zealand.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022145007455f074bfea1880a1f85ebb978\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d1b53108684452d98d9ecc9a171ae08\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the statement made by a Close Up researcher and reporter that \u201CThey\u2019ve been advised to go there by Housing New Zealand.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022029e6b67c241441892b56450c6723b81\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f58b6453880a441eb080ce8bcfc12152\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the statement made by the Housing New Zealand Corporation that \u201Cno records are kept \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242b6b263cbd744a99d0d6394a821927f\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the statement made by John Key that \u201CThere is a growing underclass in New Zealand.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220c948d1dbe3450f8117298004e735d0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002238cdaf347e3f4c56b459507316f20320\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002240a8731d67194da8be6db902275e3a4f\u0022\u003EClimate Change (Emissions Trading and Renewable Preference) Bill\u2014Submitters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000298\u0022\u003E1. \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a092fe63f81d4262bb5aca663797d949\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee: How much notice was given to submitters on the Climate Change (Emissions Trading and Renewable Preference) Bill that they were scheduled to appear before the committee in Christchurch on Monday, 7 April 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u002284f2eed5de4342f2b7da65a4229b2f87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284f2eed5de4342f2b7da65a4229b2f87\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Following a refusal by the National Party to agree to commit to alternative dates, last week I called a meeting on 7 April to hear Christchurch submissions. Submitters were notified of that meeting on the previous Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022004a763ba2a7451d846d88625cc9530d\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member think it is appropriate to give Holcim (New Zealand) Ltd, a company that is considering investing half a billion dollars in this country, only 2 working days\u2019 notice to appear before that select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d51a5a40f814677b70a4bc9e54d2801\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that Holcim (New Zealand) Ltd was consulted about the timing of its submission, and was content to appear at that time. Moreover, it was given 30 minutes for its submission and questions and answers on it, which is quite a lot longer than the normal time allotted to a submissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b812da970584c2eb158255a65ee55b4\u0022\u003ECopyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002248b124fd090f4199942b3166b76d9326\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000305\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 3 April.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022 data-id=\u0022474a40ea77724dbbbf65193e95ea1576\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022474a40ea77724dbbbf65193e95ea1576\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Last Thursday at about 2 minutes to 6, I was speaking on the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227987946d93cf4e35a0b3968f72f0a8c1\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: You were making a good speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241d31ffcb7dd45439270ba8fe4b2e69d\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. This is a fresh day, and people who are extremely interested in this legislation would, I think, like to know just a little bit more about it. Of course, this debate is the third reading debate. It is the bill\u2019s final reading, and after the vote today the legislation can be passed into law after the appropriate signatures by the appropriate people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the Copyright Act 1994 to address the emergence of technologies such as the Internet. It seeks to maintain the existing balance between the interests of the owners and those of the users of copyrighted works. It also seeks to create a more technology-neutral framework for the Copyright Act. Those of us who are up to date with technological matters, such as using iPods and copying things on to discs\u2014the latter I get my son to do for me because I have not quite grasped how to do it yet, although the iPod side of things is very enjoyable\u2014will be very interested in this bill, as it brings issues like that right up to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EIf people steal something, if they re-record music without being given the right to do so by the owner, or without being given any other rights, what they are actually doing is depriving artists of the income they deserve for having created the item in the first place. Stealing of copyright is theft, and something should be done to make sure that such people are caught. Of course, a law and order party like New Zealand First wants to make sure that workers are rewarded for what they do and that those people who want to steal the work of the workers are penalised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThe bill takes into account international developments in copyright law, and it incorporates many aspects of the two treaties negotiated by the members of the World Intellectual Property Organization, or WIPO\u2014which is something very dangerous in the copyright area; the last thing people want to do is to wipe what they have just put on an iPod or whatever! Those treaties are the World Intellectual Property Organization Copyright Treaty, and the World Intellectual Property Organization Performances and Phonograms Treaty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThis bill has been fully considered by the Commerce Committee, and we have also had a good discussion of it at the Committee stage. The bill covers a number of areas of interest for people in the educational field relating to copying for educational purposes, storing for educational purposes, copying by librarians and archivists for replacement, and conditions for libraries and archives that are making and supplying digital copies. The bill covers issues such as the observing, studying, or testing of computer programs. It also looks at communication works, and various issues under that heading, such as format shifting for personal use, time shifting, free public playing or showing of a communication work that is simultaneous with reception, and reception and retransmission of broadcast in cable programme service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThe bill has looked at Internet service provider obligations, and generally, I believe, it has done its best to bring issues up to date as much as they can be at the present time. One could say that more could be done immediately, but, as always, at least something has been done, and in fact it is quite a substantial something that is contained in this legislation, which New Zealand First supports. We will be voting in favour of the bill when the appropriate time arrives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022335b82e578594de8be010e0ff3810925\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022335b82e578594de8be010e0ff3810925\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E The Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill amends the Copyright Act 1994 to address the emergence of technologies such as the Internet. During the Committee stage I dealt at length with particular matters in both Parts 1 and 2, and I do not intend to repeat those comments here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThis bill is a major piece of legislation because it deals with, among other things, technological protection measures and Internet service provider liability. Those are very important issues, and I regret to say that I think this bill is very much a patch-up job and very much what I would call third-rate law reform. It is clear that the Copyright Act is overdue for comprehensive reform. If we look at the structure of this legislation, we see that a huge number of sections in the 1994 Act are amended. In my opinion, to introduce legislation that is episodic and, as I said, a patch-up job is simply not the way to serve the commercial and creative communities. I cannot understand why the Government did not take the opportunity to undertake comprehensive reform of the Copyright Act. As I said during the Committee stage, the Act is well overdue for comprehensive reform. It was last carefully reviewed in 1993 and 1994, and since that time there have been huge changes in technology. If any legislation justifies comprehensive reform, it is this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe National Party will support the third reading, not because it considers the bill to be particularly sparkling legislation but because it is in the interests of the commercial and creative communities that some of these changes be introduced at the first available opportunity. Had National been in a position to do so, it would, however, have undertaken comprehensive reform, because many issues have been missed in the course of this particular law reform exercise. Why is it that this Government is so lacking in vision and energy that it cannot initiate a comprehensive review of what I consider to be one of the most important statutes on the statute book? This Government is so lacking in ideas and intelligence that it does not even know what questions to ask, let alone the answers, and it is well known that one always judges a person by the questions he or she asks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EWe have been told that there will be yet more reform. Further changes to the Act will be introduced some time this year, and legislation will be referred to a select committee, where, presumably, it will languish for months. Yet another patch-up job will be done on the Copyright Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe particular thing that I objected to in the whole shabby law reform exercise that constituted the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill was the way the Opposition was treated over eleventh hour Supplementary Order Papers. I made it quite clear at an early stage, when there appeared to be some very real concerns in the commercial community about some of the changes recommended by the select committee, that I would do anything I could to assist, because I regarded this bill as non - party political but none the less very important law reform. It was extremely important that all parties worked together sensibly in order to ensure that there was good law reform for the sake of the commercial and the creative communities. However, I received copies of the Supplementary Order Papers very late in the piece\u2014indeed, on the day we were debating the bill in the Committee stage\u2014and I think that that is discourteous to members of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAbove all\u2014putting aside discourtesy\u2014it is counter-productive for Opposition members to receive Supplementary Order Papers so late in the piece. If we are to do a good job with this sort of legislation, which, as I say, is non - party political but none the less very important, it behoves the Government to put aside the election-year sniping and election-year positioning, and get Supplementary Order Papers to members of Parliament so that they can have a good look at them and make sensible contributions in the Committee stage. Maybe I am old-fashioned and irrelevant, but I for one believe that debates in this place matter, and that we should approach our task as legislators with some degree of zeal and intelligence. How one can do that simply escapes me when one gets Supplementary Order Papers at the eleventh hour rammed down one\u2019s throat and one has no real opportunity to study them and give them the careful attention that is required. So there we have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe National Party will support the passage of this legislation, but we are not happy with it. We think it is poor legislation. We think the process has been very poorly executed, and, as usual, we think that we have been treated with the customary discourtesy that we have come to expect from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0053fd3b0c24df8abc2aa7f3134a166\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0053fd3b0c24df8abc2aa7f3134a166\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next speaker, I just wonder whether I could clarify something with the member. I have the official names listed down here, and I hate to call people by the wrong name. The names have you listed, sir, as Chris Finlayson. Do you wish to be known as Christopher Finlayson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f17c3486d8fc4855970306587d9181c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f17c3486d8fc4855970306587d9181c8\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I made it very clear when I came in here that out of respect to the House, not out of respect to me, I thought that I should be called by my full name. I do not see that that should be a matter of joking or smarminess in any way at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022537391b20d1042d898929f456df4051e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: No, this is not a matter of joking. It is just that I have the formal list down here, and I want to make sure that I have yours recorded correctly. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022 data-id=\u00226800eef7e27443e0b0e318d56b28b6fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226800eef7e27443e0b0e318d56b28b6fb\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I agree with the member Christopher Finlayson that the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill is complex and in need of good, positive law reform. However, I cannot agree with him on the issue to do with the timing of Supplementary Order Papers. The problem with comments like that is that most members when they are in Opposition have a very, very short memory of what happens, and they have very long memories when they are in Government, and vice versa. In fact, I remember many, many occasions in the 1990s, when in Opposition, that Supplementary Order Papers appeared on the Table just as the debate started. I think there have been occasions when Supplementary Order Papers have not actually been available when second readings have begun, and sometimes even just before the Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EOf course, it is always the right of a Government to introduce a Supplementary Order Paper at any stage of the process. In an ideal world it is always good to have sufficient time for members to be able to look into the matters in the Supplementary Order Paper. I think I would probably go along and accept what the member was saying if he was willing to make a solemn pledge to this House that if National ever got back into Government\u2014hopefully not in my lifetime\u2014he would never ever introduce a Supplementary Order Paper without giving sufficient notice to Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246a165a46f6d4f9c889c758328de8260\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll probably appoint you to something. Don\u2019t worry about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f47442e4c5724771b70c62ae17484239\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am very obliged to the member for that comment, but that was not the purpose of this speech, even though he might think it is. What I will say is that the member did make a big issue of it, and I think it is fair to say that he would not be able to make a personal pledge to this House that under no circumstances would he introduce a Supplementary Order Paper, if he was ever a Minister, without giving sufficient notice to the Opposition. It would never happen, and even if he did try to do that I am sure he would be advised and cautioned by members of his own team, because we know that sometimes these things do happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003ETo put all that aside, I think one of the things the member was alluding to was the complexity of this issue, and I agree with him on that. The reality is, of course, that technology is changing very quickly and very swiftly, and our copyright legislation is built on issues that are really to do with last century. Now that we are moving into the digital era, with the availability of much copyright information on the Internet, how are Governments supposed to be able to control and protect the copyright of the creator?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThis is one of the things we debated around the issue of parallel importing, and in particular parallel importing of films. The argument, as I recall from when I was the Minister of Commerce, went something along the lines that if the big production companies are going to put lots of money into investing in, for example, big blockbuster films, and if the DVD is able to be imported into the country virtually at the same time as the film appears in the theatres, or if it is able to be downloaded from the Internet for nothing, then how will the production company be able to get its money back and cover the cost of the significant investment it has made in that particular piece of entertainment? Of course, the same applies for rock bands, for orchestras, and for any group that comes together to try to put forward its own copyright in order to try to make money out of its own talent and ability, particularly in writing, then is not able to get a return on it. This is a very, very difficult issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EWhat we did in the parallel importing area, as far as films were concerned, was to say that in the case of a major film, it was not able to be released in a video shop for 9 months. That proposal was supported by the theatres, particularly by regional theatres and some of the new independent theatres that were being established. They said they felt that people in New Zealand wanted to go back to the theatre and that even though people had gone through, firstly, the VHS revolution, and now the DVD revolution, they wanted the opportunity to go out. The people who invest in regional theatres said that it would be almost impossible for them to get a return on their investments if people could go down to a video shop and pick up a DVD on the same day as they were showing it first time up. I note that you are nodding in agreement, Madam Assistant Speaker. I know that you had something to do with this yourself, and that we had some discussions on this issue at that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThey are very, very complicated matters, and I think that in the end we made the right decision. Some people were not happy about it, such as DVD owners. My own DVD shop owner, who is probably watching this debate, because he watches a lot of the debates in Parliament, was particularly opposed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfe08ae472bb41cfb356ac8ea0aabbad\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: I would counsel him against that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9d05a77ad774f8b80bb54c90bb26f6d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: I have tried to counsel him against it, actually. I have told him that he needs to watch a few more of the DVDs in his shop rather than this Parliament, because it is probably better for his health. But, having said that, what it shows me\u2014and I am digressing a little\u2014is that since we have televised Parliament, a lot more people are taking an interest in it, and I hope it provides better incentives for members to behave in the House. I am not sure whether that is true, but certainly a lot more people are interested in watching and hearing the debates on these matters, and they are complicated matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThis bill reinforces the parallel importing ban. It continues the ban because we were not sure how it would all pan out, and I think that is a really good thing. As I said, I know that people were upset at the time this measure came in. I think that people used to be able to go down to the DVD shop and pick up a DVD virtually straight away. As I recall, we then went through the zone 3 and zone 4 thing, whereby some DVD players would play the DVDs and some would not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThen, of course, there is still the age-old problem of straight-out piracy, which is still a crime, whereby a movie is run in some picture theatres around the world and at the same time another copy is being made instantaneously, which is then transformed into a DVD copy, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239ea4c8448cf4585a2a83afcb586af4c\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s $2 in Kuala Lumpur!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ca948337f744f4eb4d13199cc0a3678\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Mark Blumsky is right. I have seen copies of these things, and one would hardly ever\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232fa21c8343f4d1d925ae78fc4d5cfb2\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: Great value, but there\u2019s a head that pops up every so often when the person in front stands up in front of the camera.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022573d6336236641db94293bf7c32548f8\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: That is the more non-traditional view. One way of copying these things is taking one\u2019s own video camera into the picture theatre, but then when someone in front gets up to go and get some popcorn that kind of ruins it. The more modern version of this is where counterfeiters run the DVD at the same time as the film is being shown, then go out and print off that. With some of those copies one cannot tell the difference between the copy and the original.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThat is one issue, but I think the issue of copying generally is very, very difficult. We have known since the time of the Napster revolution that people are downloading CDs off the Internet. We know that there is now technology whereby people can download modern movies off the Internet. We know this. The issue for the industry is how to control that. It usually tries to build some kind of mechanism in to try to stop that from happening. How does the Government try to deal with the problem of copyright for people who deserve to be paid for their talents? This is the issue. I feel strongly about this, because I think downloading is a form of theft\u2014there is no question about that. If someone writes a good song, a good book, or a good poem, or if someone plays in an orchestra, and if that person does that for a living, he or she deserves the right to get some return on that. The Government is trying to do something about this issue in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EI think that legislation will always be a catch-up\u2014it will probably always be second best\u2014and that Parliament will always have difficulty trying to keep up with innovations in technology. We do know that the digital age will require more and more amendments to this type of legislation. I think that even if we had a major review\u2014which the member was suggesting\u2014by the time the review was over the technology would have moved on and the solutions would probably be outdated. There will have to be incremental change. On the one hand we do not want to bring in regulation that is too hefty, cannot be followed, or somehow limits and restricts the openness of the Internet, but, on the other hand, we want to try to make sure that people who have creativity are getting paid for it, and that we try to retain that principle. The bill is looking to try to balance those two things. I support the legislation, but I predict that this is not the last time we try to deal with this issue in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022 data-id=\u0022780b6d7325e8428fa13b18bfae1ea242\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022780b6d7325e8428fa13b18bfae1ea242\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Of course, this is not the last time we will be dealing with these matters, because the Minister Judith Tizard has announced that this Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill is part of a raft of measures. I think a number of issues around copyright that are not addressed in this bill need to be picked up. We in the Green Party welcome the Minister\u2019s announcement and think that it is an important continuing piece of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003ELet me begin by acknowledging that this bill is an attempt to address serious deficiencies in current legislation. There is no doubt that there is a real need to amend copyright legislation in order to make it compatible with digital technology and to protect genuine intellectual or creative property. I think it is fair to say there are some things in this bill that are deserving of support and that improve on the status quo. Some of those improvements are a result of amendments made both at the Commerce Committee and during the Committee of the whole House. However, the Green Party remains concerned enough about some of the provisions that we will continue to vote against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EI am aware that the Minister stated during the Committee stage that some of the issues we have raised\u2014both during the debate in this House and during private discussions with her\u2014will be looked at by way of a review by the Ministry of Economic Development. She specifically referred to our concerns about the lack of protection for fair use in relation to copyright infringement, particularly when used for satire and the like. The Minister has indicated that her approach is likely to be one of providing specific protection for fair comment and parody, and I understand that this approach is the same as has been taken in some other jurisdictions. The Green Party welcomes that announcement. However, it is not adequate to cause us to change our position on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EThe gestation and passage of this bill has been lengthy, and we do not see why these issues could not have been addressed before today. In any case, we feel unable to put away our concerns on the basis of a future process with an unknown outcome. As I have said before, our concern is particularly around the Internet service provider liability provisions and the opportunity for corporate bullying that they provide. Under the bill, if an Internet service provider is informed that material it stores may breach copyright held by someone else, it is liable to a penalty if it does not, as soon as possible after becoming aware of the complaint, delete the material or prevent access to it. The triggering threshold is that the material is \u201Clikely to infringe\u201D such copyright. As I have said previously, an Internet service provider will, in practice, interpret this very broadly. Internet service providers simply will not want to take any risks. Once notified of a potential breach of copyright, an Internet service provider will almost certainly take down the material\u2014if they think there is even a possibility that it breaches copyright\u2014and leave it to the courts to sort out, if, in fact, the matter ever even gets to court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EWe have seen these kinds of provisions being misused in other jurisdictions. They can be used to clamp down on satirical websites and to inhibit genuine creative innovation. In fact, the world would never even have heard of breakbeat without the assertion of fair-use rights in creating new works by way of sampling, and the like. In the United States there have been massive corporate attempts to destroy musical forms based on sampling, such as hip hop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EThe Greens would like to see, in opposition to the notice and take-down provisions in this bill, a notice and notice regime. As I have said, it would work like this: if someone makes a claim to an Internet service provider that some material that it hosts breaches copyright, the Internet service provider will notify the alleged infringer. In most cases the person would either admit guilt or just fail to respond, and in those cases the Internet service provider would simply remove or prevent access to that material. However, a small proportion of alleged infringers would contest the claim for genuine\u2014if debatable\u2014reasons, and the matter could then be adjudicated in court. We believe that this approach would provide fair protection for copyright holders while also protecting legitimate use. It would at least allow claims to be contested in an impartial forum. We believe that the current notice and take-down provisions do not provide any protection for fair use. Although the bill does provide a right to sue for unjustified proceedings, where a matter is genuinely contested that right will be of no value, because it will not be an unjustified proceeding; it will simply be a contested proceeding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EHowever, I thank the Minister for amending during the Committee stage provisions added by the select committee on how a copyright holder gives a notice to an Internet service provider of an alleged breach, because those requirements were unreasonably restrictive. I also welcome the amendments around the use of copyright materials by educational establishments and education resource providers that are not-for-profit organisations. These amendments make such materials available for legitimate educational purposes, and I think that those are important amendments that were much needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EIn relation to amendments made at the Committee stage, let me lastly state the Green Party\u2019s support for the decision made by the Committee to vote against Gordon Copeland\u2019s amendments, which would have provided satellite television providers with a right to retransmit works broadcast on a free-to-air format. That seems to us to be a simply commercial matter, and one best left to the commercial operators to sort out for themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EWe do have issues remaining around the technological protection measures and around some other areas. I have canvassed all of those things in detail in previous stages of the debate, so I will not repeat them here. However, I would like to make one final point in this debate, which is around the Minister\u2019s announcement that another copyright amendment bill is proposed. I understand that this bill will pick up any recommendations from the Ministry of Economic Development review that I discussed earlier in relation to fair use, particularly around the liability of Internet service providers. I guess that a specific exemption around fair use would have implications beyond just Internet service provider liability and would provide protection for a range of other fair-use activities. That would be a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EThe other thing that that bill is expected to pick up is work around the commissioning rule in relation to photographers, where photographers do not hold the copyright in published work by default. We understand this to be an anomaly internationally and an anomaly in relation to other forms of creative work. It is something that we believe needs to be addressed. We have discussed it with the Minister\u2014we have had fruitful discussions\u2014and although, clearly, that matter was not within the scope of this bill, it is something that needs to be picked up in future work. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u00224ae92134f6a6447bb333130bf4252c3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ae92134f6a6447bb333130bf4252c3c\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Assistant Speaker. The definition of a generation gap is when one accidentally refers to a CD as a 45, or asks whether the track is available in LP form. With this bill, I wonder whether that gap is widening even further, with the realisation that over the past 5 years CD sales have plummeted a massive 23 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe way of listening to a popular track is now commonly accessed through downloading and sharing of files. The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry in fact reports that some 20 billion tracks were downloaded illegally in 2005 alone. The Recording Industry Association told the Commerce Committee that even the legitimate digital business is expanding rapidly. Music is being made available now through lawful means via licensed services such as iTunes, digiRAMA, and Amplifier, with current projections expecting that in 2 years\u2019 time at least 25 percent of all music sales worldwide will be digital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ESo we are talking about a whirlwind industry that has relegated vinyl to the back shelf in favour of the iPod classic, the touch screen iPod touch, the video-capable iPod nano, or the screenless iPod shuffle. As of September 2007 the iPod was the best-selling digital audio player in history, having sold over 110 million units worldwide. We are in the midst of a sound revolution, and it is in that context that we in the M\u0101ori Party welcomed the amendments to the Copyright Act to address new technologies such as the Internet whilst also maintaining the existing balance between the interests of owners and those of users of copyright works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EAs a performer and a writer myself, my interests in copyright have been about not so much the profits or gains entrenched in a music economy but the threats posed to intellectual and cultural property ownership issues. I do not expect to see any of my p\u0101tere or pao that I have composed available as a mobile phone ringing tone\u2014although it would be a good idea; one could wake up to \u201CE t\u0101 maranga ake!\u201D. But I do have ongoing concerns about the need for protection around the appropriate transmission of our cultural heritage. The digital world is one of instantaneous communication, and it is absolutely vital that the cultural knowledge that has been developed over generations is protected from exploitation in a commercial age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe concept of M\u0101ori cultural and intellectual property rights is, of course, extremely relevant as Aotearoa awaits the Waitangi Tribunal findings on Wai 262, some 17 years after the claim was first lodged by Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu, Ng\u0101ti Kur\u012B, Ng\u0101ti Wai, Te Rarawa, Ng\u0101ti Porou, and Ng\u0101ti K\u014Data. Wai 262 asserts exclusive rights to cultural knowledge and property, consistent with international discussions taking place in such fora as the World Trade Organization, the World Intellectual Property Organization, or the Convention on Biological Diversity. In essence, the concerns are to do with the commercialisation of knowledge that we may consider as taonga: ng\u0101 toi M\u0101ori, or arts; whakairo, or carving; history; oral traditions; waiata; and te reo M\u0101ori. Those treasures are increasingly being targeted in the international arena.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe protection and retention of m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori, or traditional knowledge, is also to protect against the exploitation and misappropriation of cultural taonga. We have witnessed the most horrific abuse of our traditional artefacts, such as our moko m\u014Dkai, or preserved heads, being displayed hung on meat hooks, or the use of moko to promote a Halloween mask.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ETangata whenua have also been concerned about the failure of legislation and policies to protect existing M\u0101ori collective ownership of cultural taonga, and, in particular, the lack of equitable benefit sharing, and the lack of acknowledgment of the traditional knowledge protection mechanisms of indigenous peoples. Our cultural property has been created over generations, and exists far outside the realms of individual ownership. A particularly fascinating example of the complexity of copyright laws as related to M\u0101ori was described by Alistair Smith in a paper entitled Fishing with New Nets: Maori Internet Information Resources and Implications of the Internet for Indigenous Peoples. Smith traces an experience related to the works of the Bohemian artist Gottfried Lindauer. In 1996 Lindauer\u2019s portraits of M\u0101ori chiefs from the last century were scanned and placed on the web by the Auckland City Art Gallery. This generated considerable outrage from descendants of the chiefs profiled in Lindauer\u2019s portraits, who believed that the cultural property rights lay with them. Yet conventional intellectual property law applies only to Lindauer\u2019s works, and because 50 years have passed since his death, the copyright law enables these portraits to be regarded as being in the public domain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ETo assist in navigating some of these complexities, the Government has produced Te Mana Taumaru M\u0101tauranga, which gives some valuable advice with regard to intellectual property rights, laws, and international agreements. Yet, while we all take part in the waiting game for Wai 262, both that guide and the bill before the House today are inevitably of limited value in protecting the expression of m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori and associated cultural property. As such, we were fascinated at the choice of which issues were specified as requiring further review by the select committee in this Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill. We of course took note of the authorised comment from the outstanding three-time Academy Award director, producer, and writer, Peter Jackson. His comment, which was stipulated as able to be used only for the purposes of these submissions, argued that the director should be recognised as the author of audiovisual works, urging us, and I quote: \u201Cif we, as a country, profess to honour and promote our creatives then let\u2019s get behind it legislatively and ensure that they can get some financial benefit from the sales of the works that they create. \u2026 Our Copyright Act should reflect this, let\u2019s make it happen by keeping up with the rest of the world.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EAccordingly, the Ministry of Economic Development advised the select committee that it would begin work on this issue in early 2008. Yet, although concerns around intellectual and cultural property rights were raised by Te R\u014Dp\u016B Whakahau\u2014the professional association for M\u0101ori who work in libraries, archives, and information services\u2014the report back on the bill is remarkably silent on this issue. Te R\u014Dp\u016B Whakahau concluded: \u201Cwe contend that there is a need to develop a category of collective ongoing and enduring rights that will ensure that Maori retain the right to control the appropriate expression and transmission of our cultural heritage. This control is one that can\u2019t be invested in an individual and protected by conventional intellectual property mechanisms such as copyright.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThere are interesting international precedents that could have been examined. The Pacific Model Law for the Protection of Traditional Knowledge and Expressions of Culture 2002 is an intellectual property - based sui generis system that draws on copyright principles to provide protection for traditional knowledge and cultural expressions. The concept of sui generis\u2014one of its own kind\u2014has already been introduced in Aotearoa in the Trade Marks Act 2002. Amongst its provisions, the Commissioner of Trade Marks is able to refuse to register a trademark if it is considered offensive to M\u0101ori. This was a very welcome and innovative move. It is considered that the Waitangi Tribunal ruling on Wai 262 will also recommend the implementation of sui generis systems in order to protect M\u0101ori knowledge. Another interesting model is that provided by the Sami people of Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Russia. They have established S\u00E1mikopiija\u2014a reproduction rights organisation that represents the interests of Sami culture. The organisation has been set up to administer collectively their rights, and to ensure that appropriate remuneration is paid to the Sami for reproduction of intellectual property. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThis bill was in the ideal position to build on all of these developments, both domestically and internationally, and, just as it did with the recommendations around the directors, also to grab the opportunity to demonstrate leadership in requiring comprehensive protection of m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori\u2014M\u0101ori knowledge. It is a matter of great disappointment to the M\u0101ori Party that the House has not been presented with such an opportunity. It is therefore inevitable that the M\u0101ori Party will be unable to support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8cb0f5712704f3899336325a980dd74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8cb0f5712704f3899336325a980dd74\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora n\u014D t\u0101tou. I sat on the Commerce Committee, along with a host of our other colleagues from both sides of the House, and\u2014as I recall it, Mr Copeland\u2014and waded through a host of very technical submissions dealing with the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI follow Dr Sharples and share, in a moment of mirth, that he provided me with a story from the time when I went to St Stephen\u2019s School about a\u2014I think it was a 78\u2014record that had been made collecting the ancient songs of the Ng\u0101ti Porou tribe. If I am not mistaken it was a Mrs Dewes, the daughter of the Rev. Pine\u0101mine Tamah\u014Dri, who had been recorded singing ancient oriori and waiata from Cape Runaway through to Gisborne. Listening to it was hardly the most interesting thing that we wanted to do. But I am reminded that this bill shows how far we have moved on from there, because when we made a 78 record go faster than it should with a 78-year-old woman singing ancient laments from Hikurangi mountain, it sounded like something quite out of this world. That did not please the M\u0101ori language teacher, who\u2014unfortunately for my backside, because caning was still around\u2014decided that I should suffer some punishment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt is unfortunate that I heard Dr Sharples announce that the M\u0101ori Party will not be supporting this bill. It caused me to recollect that great story about a scratched record. We are hearing from members of that party far too often that they will not support innovation and modernisation. They are condemned to their view of both our people and the place of M\u0101ori people in New Zealand society as being frozen in time, like some static image incapable of moving forward in any dynamic current. However, that is another matter, and we will deal with that in November. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWhen I was on the select committee there was a great deal of angst about whether section 88 of the parent legislation should go or should remain. We took some spirited submissions from people representing the Television New Zealand board, I presume, people representing Sky, and people representing TelstraClear, which may not actually exist much longer and could be consumed by Vodafone. In the end, it seems that a compromise has been struck. There was a sense of sunk investment and that people\u2019s existing ability to access some transmissions via the TelstraClear platform, etc., in terms of the people who had already subscribed, would disappear. But I have no doubt that a future Government will return to address that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAlthough this bill talks about somewhat arcane things, there is a key public policy issue at stake here, and it is one that I questioned the submitters about very intensely. It is whether copyright infringement should apply to civic institutions, such as public libraries, school libraries, and tertiary libraries. I was clearly of the view, as an individual parliamentarian who was sitting on that committee, that although the providers of that information should be concerned that undue profit might be made at their expense, access to knowledge is a great contributor to building civic virtue amongst not only our educated class but civil society in general. I was very, very keen to see that prop be upheld, so that our institutions can access information and make information available to our students in the most efficient way possible, without the students or their long-suffering parents having to pay a penalty, or the teachers or lecturers being pinged for unwittingly breaking the law to do with copyright. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAlthough libraries are required to keep written requests and maintain a database, the fact of the matter is that provided the material is not being used for pecuniary gain, there is scope so that when material is copied digitally, it remains the lifeblood of the young people. I remember that when I was studying law and economics, we suffered pages and pages of cyclostyled or xeroxed\u2014whatever the term was in those days\u2014material. The fact that it can now be accessed over the computer does reflect the fact that although the information still has a critical role in evolving the sense of obligation, duty, and right that we look to university graduates to uphold in society, their entitlement is finely balanced with that of the people who put the books together, and who suffer the deprivations of having to give up rugby, drinking beer, and being with the family to write scholarly texts that unfortunately may be read only by students as studious as Shane Jones was for that brief point in his life\u2014something that Mr Tremain and others should, no doubt, look at in an admiring sense\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275956b7d767a4da297b55bd1fd532727\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Take a leaf out of that book, yes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd47f66676034b36a262fb5a4d0babfd\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I think it is best to describe that\u2014[Interruption] The Kiwi Tavern, unfortunately, no longer exists. It was an institution of great repute amongst the M\u0101ori boys and girls who went to Auckland University. It is actually a marae now, I understand, I say to Dr Coleman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfbdfae3b3614b5d99b334e8352b14d5\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it was a car-park.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e1d60f8785d42369080dd24078be9fd\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a car-park? I can say that if it is a marae, then it was already graced with great oratory before the university complex that now occupies that space turned it into a marae. Of course, the Kiwi Tavern was known as the brother hotel to the Globe Tavern, the \u201Cbig eye\u201D. Those matters have long since passed me by; we are on to far more important matters as parliamentarians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EHowever, the key point remains that the key public policy issue in this bill seeks to draw the right kind of balance. In relation to format shifting, Dr Sharples talked about the need for us to use modern technology to capture the remnants of not only our M\u0101ori history but the history of pioneer New Zealand, the history of families, and the histories of communities. One thing that we should dwell on when we are talking about such dry and prolix topics as technology is that unless this technology is used by our young people so they become more familiar with and express a greater degree of owning their own history, then our own sense of where we have come from as a country is, in my view, distorted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EA lot of people ask why we M\u0101ori are so hard out on giving our genealogy, and so insistent on reciting the names of our awas, our wakas, our maungas, etc. I think that is an unfair challenge to us, because that opportunity lies with every New Zealand family. All families should teach their children that their family came on the Ladybird, or whatever boat they came on. They should teach their children to be knowledgable about their history and to value their history, and not wait until an earlier generation has all but died off, then suddenly suffer an attack of anxiety and try to put the history together. Fortunately we are still a young country, and many families are in a position to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EBut I will say that modern technology has helped a lot of our M\u0101ori families who have gone back and are now able to copy from master databases material such as the great speeches of the 1930s and 1940s that were collected by either Sir Apirana Ngata and his ilk or by Sir Apirana Ngata\u2019s son, a great ethnologist. Those speeches lie in a memory bank somewhere in the State broadcasting system, but from time to time they are copied. They are copied in such a way that we can be driving down an electorate road, a pathway\u2014of course some, like my friends from the M\u0101ori Party will not be on roads; they will be up the creek\u2014and we can put on an iPod and listen to material that was recorded 40, 50, or 60 years ago. That makes it accessible to a generation who, in my view, spend too much time on the iPod anyhow and need to spend more time kanohi ki te kanohi talking, speaking, and debating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe material covered in this bill allows for format shifting, downloading, etc. It does not all have to be Snoop Dogg and the wretched type of music that, unfortunately, blights too many of the rooms of my house. More for me are the Doobie Brothers, Stevie Wonder, Joe Cocker, and so on. However, that list, unfortunately, is used as an example of why my kids will not travel with me in the car. But they are able to help matua Shane Jones to download material and put it on to a system that then plugs into a radio. I can then drive knowing not only that I am generating great taxpayer value in the electorate of Northland but that I am also rehearsing my childhood memories and singing, etc., which will come in handy one day in the unlikely event that the rugby team enjoys a surge this year. But we will hear more about those matters from those on the other side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI commend this bill. Although the topic is somewhat dry, its application is exciting. I am disappointed that my whanaunga from the M\u0101ori Party will not support the bill, but such is life\u2014more on that in November. Kia t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022a188d71638f741919f30c3537e99c695\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a188d71638f741919f30c3537e99c695\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Due to the wide public interest in this interesting bill, I have received a phone call from a member of the public who would like to tell Mr Jones that the record in question was a long-playing 33, not a 78. So it is no wonder he got the speed wrong, and he probably deserved the caning he got. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214c60596d6494412ac48153abd119883\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: Strictly, that is a point of information and debate, not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee5c1bff8810451184e3f5255f439115\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee5c1bff8810451184e3f5255f439115\u0022\u003EDAVE HEREORA (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I take this opportunity as a member of the Commerce Committee to take this call in relation to the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill. I took a couple of areas as being of particular interest in this bill, which were to do with educational establishments and library provisions, particularly in regard to ensuring that, at the very least, students had the opportunity to gain information for their learning, and that they were protected in being given that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003ECurrently, for educational establishments, archives, and libraries, there are a number of exceptions for copies of works, so I suppose it was necessary for the bill to clarify how these exceptions will work in a digital environment. There are some minor amendments to the educational establishment provisions that are designed to overcome practical difficulties with the provisions, such as problems identifying the author of a work, particularly in regard to courses that a work would be used for but also in regard to the requirement for libraries to look at written requests and to make and retain declarations when they are copying digital material. These requirements were removed because they would have been administratively difficult for libraries to comply with, and there is no evidence that libraries have abused or would abuse provisions to infringe that copyright.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003ESome of the interest and concerns from the public were around the risk that works would be copied and transmitted by or to the general public, and that an educational establishment or library could effectively substitute for the role of commercial distributors or publishers. I suppose that the committee\u2019s consideration was that the amended clauses did not condone copying or that the transmission of digital works in these actions continued to be an infringement of copyright; rather, they provide practical mechanisms for educational establishments and libraries to copy digital material in a way that is consistent with the current exceptions in the Act, with completely complex and unnecessary compliance requirements. So I suppose our consideration was aimed to ensure, at the very least, that there was the opportunity still for libraries and those establishments to be able to provide that material when necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe other area that I took interest in, and my colleague speaking previously raised the matter, was format shifting\u2014trying to deal with the fact, for example, of someone using an MP3 player whether in public or at home, and clarifying with that the existing position under the law: how an owner can contract out of a format shifting provision, and the requirement for a person to obtain the original sound recording in their possession if the format had shifted. So there was a real need for the deletion of a clause in the provision that would have meant it expired after 2 years. This was to avoid uncertainty about whether people who purchased older sound recordings would be able to continue to format shift in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EA further area was that of Internet service provider liability, where the provision that the limit of the Internet service provider liability for copyright infringement had to be applied in specific circumstances. Some amendments were made to these provisions as a result of our consideration of the bill, largely on the recommendation of specialist advisers\u2014and I have to say that their advice was very handy in giving us some tuition and direction. The requirement in the bill was that an Internet service provider would have a limitation on liability only if they had adopted a policy around termination of accounts or repeat infringers. Some people were really concerned that this was unnecessary, as the standard of Internet service provider terms and conditions generally already allow for this, and that its scope and application were unclear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EIn relation to changes to the notice and take-down procedure in the bill, the provision had specified that an Internet service provider is not infringing unless it knows or has reason to believe that the material is infringing, and also that it does not delete or prevent access to the material as soon as possible so they can become aware of it. As a result of that concern\u2014that is, that it did not provide sufficient certainty for Internet service providers about when they would be required to take material down, and that it did not diverge from tests in other jurisdictions\u2014the following change, we thought, was necessary. That was that a test was altered to clarify that the Internet service provider must either know, or have received a notice, that the material was infringing, and that there is a new requirement that notices must be properly completed, signed, and written in the prescribed form. There is a new offence for knowing or recklessly providing a notice that is materially false or misleading, and the requirement for an Internet service provider policy for termination of accounts of repeat infringers was removed because it was unclear in its scope and application and Internet service providers already generally have terms and conditions that cover that. There was a particular concern from Internet service providers that it would be difficult to determine whether they complied with the provision, which could leave them exposed to that liability. Of course, the new provision relating to this obligation is to remove material that provides that Internet service providers will not be shielded from liability if they have knowledge of infringing material. Therefore, notice would be required in this situation. We also looked at posing that the drafting of this provision could be clarified through a Supplementary Order Paper later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe new offences apply only where a person knowingly or recklessly provides a false or misleading notice, and where those notices are false or misleading in a material way. An inadvertent or minor error in a notice would not give rise to that liability. So the provisions relating to the preservation of the injunctive relief in the bill were amended as a result of recommendations from the specialist advisers to the select committee. These amendments were to give effect to that clear policy and intent, which was to preserve the ability for rights holders to seek injunctive relief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe last area I want to make note of is that of protection measures, and in the second reading debate quite a lot of speakers from the Commerce Committee raised this issue. It was in relation to extending the current technical protection measure provisions so that the technical protection measures, which protect all exclusive rights under copyright, were protected, to ensure that there was some form of penalty in relation to an offence for commercial dealing in technical protection measure circumvention devices, means, and information, and also to contain provisions to enable users to seek assistance from such trusted institutions as libraries and educational establishments to break technical protection measures to exercise permitted acts under Part 3 of the Copyright Act. I suppose key changes that we determined were the clarification of the technical protection measures to be designed for purposes other than the protection of copyright, and also the enabling of users to seek assistance from trusted institutions; it was simplified so that a user no longer needs to apply to a copyright owner before he or she seeks assistance from a trusted institution. There is also a new ability for the class of trusted institutions to be extended by Order in Council, as the amendments were made on the recommendation of those advisers who, as I said earlier, were really good in giving advice to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThose were the four areas that I thought were of particular interest, and I reiterate that although we are dealing with new technology everyday, I support this bill and recommend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d372d0c0a0bb44c5a26d87a3f87e02c8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; ACT New Zealand 2; Progressive 1; Independents: Copeland, Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3ace0afbeac40cca97f88b6ec184746\u0022\u003EHuman Tissue Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002214eaeb2fd94f4637a1e4c9adb7bec39e\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00221c93889c67844349ba2c0b4c26ec30ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c93889c67844349ba2c0b4c26ec30ff\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Human Tissue Bill be now read a third time. The bill was introduced in November 2006 to update the Human Tissue Act of 1964. The bill provides a framework for regulating the collection, storage, and use of human tissue, primarily from deceased people. It also regulates trading in tissue, the export and import of tissue, and the issue of tissue for non-therapeutic purposes\u2014for example, research, education, audit, and anatomical examination. The bill was examined by the Health Committee, which reported the bill back with some amendments, and I take the opportunity to thank the committee for its careful consideration of the bill, which I think has resulted in some improvements to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EFirstly, on the consent framework, the bill makes informed consent the fundamental principle underpinning the lawful collection and use of human tissue. It replaces the use of lack of objection in the Human Tissue Act 1964 with informed consent, which is consistent with the Code of Health and Disability Consumers\u2019 Rights. By specifying who may give consent for the collection and use of human tissue, the bill clearly provides for organ and tissue donation, and the collection and retention of tissue at a post-mortem examination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe bill specifies a hierarchy of people who may give informed consent to the collection and use of human tissue. In general, the primary consent will be that of the deceased before he or she died, or of someone nominated by the deceased person to consent on his or her behalf. In the absence of consent to donation by the individual or the nominee, the decision will be made by the immediate family. The bill provides for decision making by a close available relative of the dead individual if the immediate family is unable to reach a decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe bill as introduced provided that the immediate family could not give consent unless a majority of the immediate family agreed with the decision. The committee recommended that the need for a majority decision be removed. This amendment means that a member of the immediate family may give informed consent or raise an informed objection once it is clear that all capable family members accept\u2014or would, if consulted, accept\u2014that decision. The amendment allows family members to reach a decision in whatever way is appropriate for them, as long as they agree collectively with the decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe bill describes some situations where the consent framework operates slightly differently. The Health Committee recommended the inclusion of flowchart diagrams to aid understanding, which I agree has improved the bill. The bill provides some exceptions to the general rule that informed consent is required to collect or use human tissue\u2014for example, where tissue is collected or used under the Coroners Act 2006 or for criminal justice purposes. The bill also recognises that there are certain limited circumstances where, because appropriate safeguards are in place, the public good associated with the use of tissue outweighs informed consent requirements\u2014for example, certain research where this is approved by an ethics committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EOn the matter of informed objection, one of the key amendments recommended by the committee is the introduction of informed objection. The amendment recognises the ability of decision makers to object to the use of human tissue as well as to consent to it. Both informed consent and informed objection will now have legal standing and will prevent others from consenting or objecting. Nevertheless, there will be situations where it might be appropriate for the collection or use of tissue to not proceed, even if a valid consent has been given. The bill now provides that clinicians and researchers need not act on a valid consent, as appropriate, and that organ donor coordinators, transplant surgeons, and others should be free to decide not to act on informed consent if the information available indicates that they should not do so, without fear of prosecution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe committee had a considerable discussion about cultural issues and human tissue collection and use, and it recommended two amendments to give greater recognition to the culture of the immediate family. The first requires decision makers to take into account the cultural and spiritual needs, values, and beliefs of the immediate family. We want to encourage individuals who want to make a decision about the collection and use of tissue after their death to consider the impact of their decision on their family, but we also want individuals to retain the right to make a decision that the family does not, in the end, agree with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe second amendment requires the person collecting or using human tissue to take into account the cultural or spiritual needs, values, and beliefs of the immediate family. It is entirely appropriate for clinicians, researchers, and others collecting and using human tissue from a deceased individual to do so with the proper recognition and respect for the immediate family. In the Committee stage the M\u0101ori Party proposed that families be given the power to veto the consent given by M\u0101ori individuals while they were alive. Although it is considered appropriate that cultural issues be adequately considered during this process, it was not felt to be appropriate to give families a legal right to override an individual decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI take this opportunity to acknowledge the support this bill has received from both the major and the minor political parties. I commend this bill to the House, in order to provide clarity on the consent requirement for the collection and use of human tissue for the public, the clinicians, and others involved in the collection and use of tissue. In doing so I wish to thank members all around the House who have served on the select committee and who have been involved in the process. I wish to thank the officials and all those who have been consulted on the production of the bill, which I now commend to the House for third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00229358e1b91b1c42cca7addf3b357cf9ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229358e1b91b1c42cca7addf3b357cf9ae\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party supports the Human Tissue Bill, which is a Government bill. It replaces the Human Tissue Act 1964, which needed updating. When this bill was heard at the Health Committee it was heard alongside my member\u2019s bill, the Human Tissue (Organ Donation) Amendment Bill, which had been facilitated by Andy Tookey. Andy had for a number of years been a campaigner for increasing organ donor rates in New Zealand, and he felt that a register was the way to go. The two bills were heard together and there were a number of submissions on both bills. The member\u2019s bill allowed for a voluntary, opt-on organ donor register, where the donor\u2019s wishes were legally binding. Unfortunately, support was not found for the member\u2019s bill, but there is provision in the Human Tissue Bill\u2014the Government bill\u2014to allow a future Government to be able to regulate for a register if organ donor rates do not increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe organ donor rates in New Zealand have been appallingly low over the last few years, and there are a number of reasons for that. In particular, there is an increasing need for donated kidneys, with renal failure being the end-stage problem of diabetes renal issues, and there has also been a higher threshold. Where people are needy, they could have organs if they become sicker. This is not only New Zealand\u2019s problem; it is an international problem. Many countries have taken on organ donor registers as the way to fix the problem. Already recently this year, in March, there were some media releases reporting that Michigan was strengthening its organ donor rights, and it is joining the national momentum to bring uniformity to organ donor laws in the United States. There is also Winnipeg, which is calling for a national organ donor register, as is Wisconsin. Many countries around the world are doing the same thing, including the United Kingdom. Even Gordon Brown was recently in the news, calling for there to be a presumed consent register in that country, and that bill is being debated at present. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIt was with great sadness that I say we did not get support for the member\u2019s bill, and now we are left with the situation where a future Government can provide for a register if organ donor rates do not increase. At the present time we do not have anything. We have a driver\u2019s licence consent but that does not mean anything. It is not informed consent, so that is ignored. We really are relying on the public to tell their close relatives that they would like to donate, and hope that their close relatives will do the right thing. Otherwise, living wills are the only other way that people may dictate their wishes\u2014how they wish their organs to be used, or not, as is the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThere was much talk about a public information and public media campaign that would be needed to go alongside, to increase organ donor rates. But, quite frankly, we have heard nothing since. There has been much discussion, but there have been no hard facts, about when this organ donor information campaign might begin. The basic framework of the Human Tissue Bill is that it provides for informed consent, so that an individual\u2019s rights have primacy. Members on this side of the House find it hard to see how, without an organ donor register, we can have an informed consent process for this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ESo it is with sadness that I say the member\u2019s bill was not supported. There is provision in the Government bill for a future organ donor register, by a future Government, if organ donor rates do not increase. I guess the spotlight now is on Organ Donation New Zealand, which is the organisation seen to increase organ donations in New Zealand. I know that it has its own structure, and its own way it wishes to go about increasing donor rates, and I think the spotlight will be on that organisation. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3731315194e4579b2d5613897275a9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3731315194e4579b2d5613897275a9b\u0022\u003ELESLEY SOPER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise as deputy chair of the Health Committee to speak on the Human Tissue Bill. I thank the Minister for shepherding through this very important bill, and the Health Committee gave it very careful consideration. I intend to give the House a bit more background on the wider policy issues that led to the bill\u2019s introduction. I also wish to take a little time to speak on the issue of maximising organ and tissue donation in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EThe policy behind the bill was informed by a review, which included public consultation undertaken by the Ministry of Health on the regulation of human tissue and tissue-based therapies. The review identified concerns about the current consent framework for the collection and use of human tissue. The Minister has already discussed how these concerns have been addressed in the bill, and the amendments recommended by the select committee. The review also highlighted issues relating to the regulation of the non-therapeutic use of human tissue, import and export of tissue, and trading of tissue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EThe non-therapeutic use of tissue is currently largely unregulated, with the exception of the schools of anatomy. The review found general agreement that an overarching standard for the non-therapeutic use of tissue was needed. The reason for such a standard was the need for clarity and consistency, and to allow for monitoring of the processes around tissue use. The bill will ensure the safety and quality of the non-therapeutic use of human tissue through standards prescribed or approved by regulation. These standards will apply to the collection and use of tissue for research, education, audit, diagnosis, post-mortems, anatomical examinations, and other non-therapeutic purposes. The bill contains additional requirements for schools of anatomy, including licensing of the schools, given the invasive nature of anatomical examination and the need for public confidence in that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EThe ministry\u2019s review found general support for a more comprehensive oversight of the import and export of human tissue, to address issues such as safety and ethical concerns. Many respondents supported the import and export of tissue for quality assurance, peer review, diagnostic purposes, and transplantation purposes, where adequate safety levels can be assured. The bill provides for regulations prescribing or approving requirements and standards for the import and export of human tissue. This will, if necessary, permit rigorous monitoring of safety and quality. The bill also provides for requirements relating to informed consent for imported tissue. These provisions will enable more stringent informed consent requirements for particular types of tissue\u2014for example, human embryonic stem cell lines. The ministry\u2019s review found general support for a prohibition on the sale and purchase of human tissue, but found acknowledgement that there should be some allowance for recovery of reasonable administrative costs associated with the collection, analysis, and processing of that tissue. The bill repeals Part 3A of the Health Act 1956, which regulates trading in blood and controlled human substances, and replaces that with a similar but extended provision, covering, for example, trading in all human tissue. The sale and purchase of human tissue, including blood, will, as a general rule, be prohibited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EI will move on to the maximising of organ and tissue donation. During the select committee process a number of submitters took the opportunity to discuss organ donation and various solutions to increase the donor rate within New Zealand. Much of that comment did not relate specifically to parts of the bill, with the exception of an organ and tissue donor register. The key debate raised amongst submitters\u2014and Mr Tookey has been mentioned\u2014was whether there should be a national organ and tissue donor register in New Zealand. It is fair to say that all submitters were united in their desire, as was the committee, to see the rate of organ donation increase in New Zealand, but the views of submitters differed markedly on the best way to achieve that result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003ETo provide some context for the debate and to explain to people listening to Parliament what the select committee had to consider, as of January 2007 there were 433 people on the waiting list in New Zealand for a kidney transplant, 13 for a liver transplant, five for a heart transplant, eight for a lung transplant, and four for a pancreas / kidney transplant. Even if organs were retrieved from every potential deceased donor, the supply, particularly for kidneys, would still fall far short of the demand for them. Kidney transplants from deceased donors can only ever be a small part of the response to growing levels of kidney failure amongst New Zealanders. Only a very small number of New Zealanders die each year in circumstances that allow them to become organ donors, and this was something that surprised many of the committee members and many of the members of the public who were there during the submission process as we heard submissions. There is a belief that there are many organs that are just not being harvested in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EOrgan donation is possible when an individual is determined to be brain-dead, prior to their blood circulation ceasing, and this occurs only within an intensive care unit in a New Zealand hospital. A 2002 estimate put the number of medically suitable potential donors per year in New Zealand at approximately 100. In recent years there has been a reduction in brain death rates in intensive care units, due to a declining road toll and continuous improvements in clinical practice and survival rates from trauma. Data from Auckland City Hospital, for instance, shows an overall trend of fewer patients becoming brain-dead, with a reduction by about a third between 2000 and 2006.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EWhen the bill was introduced, the Minister encouraged members on the select committee to carefully examine the international evidence on the impact of registers on organ and tissue donation rates. The committee did that, and recommends that a register not be established at present. However, what we did recommend includes a clause that permits the establishment of an opt-on register by regulation at a later date, should it become desirable to do so. We believe that that may happen in New Zealand. It will happen when the international evidence tells us that registers are useful in increasing donor rates. That evidence was not given to the select committee. What we were given was evidence that showed that registers are currently not a significant influence on the number of deceased donors available for transplantation. Other factors such as the religious and cultural views towards death and the body, the predominant cause of death, and the number and efficiency of the transplantation coordinators make a more significant contribution to the number of organs and tissues available for transplants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EWe had a great deal of evidence, to come to the recommendation we made on organ donation. We know that Organ Donation New Zealand is developing a system of death audits in intensive cares units that, when implemented, will provide more information on processes such as identifying potential donors and requesting donations from families. Although it is reassuring to see that the number of deceased organ donors in New Zealand was higher in 2007 than in 2006, so far none of these approaches will result in a sufficient supply of organs to meet current or likely future demand. The best hope for reducing the excess demand for transplant tissue over time is to reduce the preventable causes of demand for organs such as type 2 diabetes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EThis bill is a very carefully considered bill. We believe that the recommendations we have made to the House to improve the bill are very substantial and we are very proud to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c442732a4a094c7fa68b9e0bd93c003d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c442732a4a094c7fa68b9e0bd93c003d\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (National\u2014Aoraki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a very brief call on the Human Tissue Bill, because I have been part of the debate throughout this bill and part of the Health Committee, which considered the bill. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to some of the people in my electorate, but also to the people of New Zealand who took the time and steeled themselves to make what was often an emotional plea to the committee to get it right in this bill. They were people who have, in some way, had their lives touched by organ transplants, and who felt that this bill could make a difference for New Zealanders in the future. Those people came before the committee and told us their stories. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EI think it would be fair to say that if we looked at the front covers of the women\u2019s magazines over the course of a year, we would almost always find that in the course of a few months there is a story about transplants or the incredible gift that is made when a family manages to steel itself to donate the organs of a loved one for the benefit of many other New Zealanders. On this occasion I pay tribute to those people and say that we hope that this bill will, in some way, improve organ donations. I understand my colleague Dr Jackie Blue\u2019s concerns about the lack of a register, and we thank the members on the other side of the House for their assurance that that will continue to be on the page, so to speak, and will be considered in the future. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, for this opportunity to pay tribute to those people. I was proud to be on the select committee and to hear those submissions at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u00222af17599e9114f7cb20f2fe188551ce2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222af17599e9114f7cb20f2fe188551ce2\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First supports the third reading of the Human Tissue Bill. This bill was very carefully considered by the Health Committee. It is a very important bill that has far-reaching implications for many organisations, universities, and research institutions right throughout New Zealand. The submissions we heard during the select committee process made us very aware of the research and development that is being carried out. It is vitally important that this continues. The bill also has implications for the many individuals who were hoping that it would see the establishment of an organ donor register. Unfortunately at this time the latter group is going to be very disappointed, but I remind them that there is the provision within this legislation to ensure that an organ donor register could be set up at some later stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EOne of the many issues that were extensively discussed during the process was the trading of tissue. Not one of us wants to see organs and tissues traded on an open market, but there is a very real need for researchers and medical scientists to have access to the tissues they need so that research can be carried out. Some of this tissue is currently imported from many research institutions right around the world. We know it is absolutely essential that all of the vitally important research into human cell lines continues. This type of research is absolutely essential for scientific knowledge, as well as for the wellbeing of the health and development of the population at large. We are also very aware that at this point in time there are many conditions and diseases that are difficult to diagnose in a standard laboratory analysis. Because they are difficult to treat, it makes it very important that there are research institutions able to get this tissue. For the people managing this condition, it is the best hope that we can currently offer them. This is a situation where we had to look at the needs of our society. We would not want some of the fine learning institutions around the country to be handicapped because they did not have access to those tissues and materials that they needed to carry out research.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe bill is important. It is far-reaching, covering the regulation and the use of tissues from dead human bodies. It sets up a framework for informed consent for tissue use. It is a very complex bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIt also regulates the export and import of tissue and the use of tissue for non-therapeutic purposes. When we look at the use of human tissue in a wider context, we see that it is important that researchers are aware that this bill does not make lawful any activity that is currently prohibited. As has always been the case in New Zealand, a person cannot sell their own tissue or tissue from a body that they are responsible for. I think the very last thing New Zealanders would want to occur is financial consideration for human tissue or human organs. We believe that the gift status these donations have been accorded must remain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe bill also allows for the setting up of an organ donor register at some future time, when there is sufficient evidence available to establish an opt-on register. We considered this issue at length in the select committee, and discussed it very extensively with the officials. The data that the committee received from overseas countries regarding the mandatory establishment of an organ donor register does not show that setting up an organ donor register at this point in time results in increased numbers of people donating organs. We will follow this argument with interest as the converse can also be argued: without such a register, how can people indicate their wishes to be an organ donor? Here we have to acknowledge the tireless work of Andy Tookey for promoting an organ donor register.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EMany people believe that their driver\u2019s licence wish will be honoured, but it is a sad fact that the Land Transport database system remains a separate, stand-alone system with no transfer of the data to any health information system. Often one\u2019s immediate family does not know what options are being ticked by the individual when he or she obtains or renews his or her driver\u2019s licence. I have to count myself among those people who do not know what is on their spouse\u2019s driver\u2019s licence, but I do know what is on my son\u2019s driver\u2019s licence. We are only too aware that the Land Transport database cannot work, and it makes one question why one has to give an indication on a driver\u2019s licence when it is of no value whatsoever. People advising the Land Transport system that they wish to be an organ donor is only an indication of their wishes. It is not legal consent for donation. This has often left grieving families unsure about what to do, so usually nothing is done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand First we believe that an extensive public marketing campaign is required for an opt-on organ donor register to be successful. Without this the problem of organ donation will always stay in the too-hard basket. There has basically been no public action at all since 2004 when the select committee recommended that a legally binding register be set up. We are very aware that organ donation rates are low, and aware too that clinical practice means that more people are now saved after being in car accidents or after suffering other trauma. The setting up of a register and a public information campaign need to go hand in hand, as the bottom line is that any register cannot be set up to fail. A register is expensive to set up and maintain, and it is essential that the additional resources result in an increased rate of organ donation. I think too that we have to be aware that not every organ can be used for transplant. The criteria are extremely stringent\u2014as one would expect\u2014and only a very small number of people actually meet them. Again, that is a situation we would expect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe donation of organs can sometimes be controversial for families, particularly at a very stressful time in their lives. The select committee tried very hard to clarify the consent process\u2014hence the flow charts included in the bill. In New Zealand First we believe that the bill should provide informed consent requirements and informed objection. Those must be met before any tissue collection or use. The bill has successfully set out to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThis issue will not go away. It has not been completed to the satisfaction of all New Zealanders. However, I remind people that the potential is there to develop an opt-on register. It was very interesting to hear from a few submitters over the course of submissions to the bill that some people believe that there should be mandatory harvesting of organs because the person would not need them any more and the health system would actually save millions and millions of dollars because people would not have to have the expensive treatments or medications they needed while they were waiting for an organ donor. That was a very interesting concept, we thought, but far beyond the scope of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand First we believe that the bill clearly sets out the processes that need to be followed for the collection and use of tissue from human bodies after death, and sets up a framework for informed consent for human tissue use. It also regulates trading in tissue, the exporting and importing of tissue, and the use of tissue for non-therapeutic purposes. New Zealand First supports this bill. It needed updating and reviewing and we are pleased to have been part of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u00227c8bd3ec5d8b4c56b19183e832fcb08e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c8bd3ec5d8b4c56b19183e832fcb08e\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is very pleased to support the Human Tissue Bill. I would really like to start by thanking the Health Committee for its very careful consideration of this very complex legislation. On the one hand the bill is extremely complex, dealing with a very wide range of issues; on the other hand it deals with quite an emotional subject, which touches on very sensitive cultural, spiritual, and emotional issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EI believe that on this bill we had an example of a select committee working at its best. We went in with a very open mind. We listened to the evidence. We had very conflicting evidence: on the one hand people like Andy Tookey implored us to set up a register; on the other hand the intensivists implored us not to set up a register. They said it would not work for intensivists and that, above all, it would not increase the number of organs that are donated in New Zealand. So there were widely polarised views and some very, very compelling evidence from people who had experience with organ donation. We did our very best to steer our way through it all and come up with a bill that I think is a very reasonable compromise\u2014not just a compromise but actually the right policy at the present time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EI know that when we began to consider this bill, I assumed I would favour the establishment of an organ donation register. The reason I assumed I would favour a register was that the Green Party is very keen to see an increase in the number of organs that are donated in New Zealand. Like other parties in this House, we are very, very concerned about the extremely low rate of organs that are donated, and it seemed to us that a register would be one way of increasing the number of organs that were donated. But in fact when we listened with an open mind and looked at the international evidence, we heard and saw that there was no compelling evidence that establishing a register would result in more organs becoming available. Because that was our overriding objective, it did not seem sensible to recommend the rather expensive, quite complex establishment of a register if it would not achieve the purpose of increasing the number of donated organs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EOne of the things that most surprised me during the select committee deliberations was the realisation, which previous speakers have alluded to, of how few organs can be, if you like, harvested from people in New Zealand. I just assumed the problem was that organs were available and that all we needed was for more people to give their consent to having their organs harvested at the time of their death. I assumed that ipso facto that would increase the rate of organs being donated and would solve the problem. So it was actually a great surprise to learn that it would not matter how many people had actually signed a register and said they would consent to having their organs harvested at the time of their death. It would not matter how many people had signed such a register, because there would be only an incredibly small number of people every year who would, in fact, be able to have their organs harvested. As previous speakers have said, they estimate that about 100 people in New Zealand could be suitable. First of all, those people have to be brain-dead, have to be in intensive care, and have to have organs that are in a good condition\u2014they cannot have any old organs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003ESo when one actually looks at that, one realises that simply having a register will not solve the problem. It could be a step in the right direction, but it has not proven to be so internationally. The reality is, unfortunately, that there will only ever be a very small number of people whose organs will be able to be harvested. What we have said, as others have pointed out, is that although there is not any compelling evidence yet to recommend establishing a register, should that evidence be forthcoming\u2014in other words, if, when we continue to look at the international experience, we find that in those countries that have registers it results in an increase in organ donors\u2014then without requiring further legislation, by a simple regulation a future Government can establish a register. So the provision for a register is there. It can be done relatively easily, but we require that we do it based on evidence, rather than just because it feels good and so politicians can say \u201CLook what we\u2019ve done; we\u2019ve established a register.\u201D There is not much point in doing so if we know that the register will not result in an increase in organ donation rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe other thing I will make a point about is that more and more people in New Zealand will require donated organs. In fact, some people are saying there will be an explosion in the need for donated organs in coming decades, because of the incidence of obesity and diabetes and the number of people who will need renal dialysis. Unless we do seriously get into preventive measures, such as improving our diets and the quality of the food we eat, we will have an explosion in the number of people who need donated organs. In the United States, the number of people who are waiting for kidneys has more than doubled over the past decade, and the average person waits more than 3 years for an organ. Authorities in the United States are debating whether to set up a rationing system, and are considering, for example, giving priority to young people and saying that older persons, people over the age of 70 or 79, would not be accepted for organ donation. So that sort of thing is already being debated overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EI think the real lesson for us is that we will not solve that problem with, if you like, the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. The only real solution is to reduce the number of people who are developing preventable diabetes\u2014type 2 diabetes\u2014obesity, and other diet-related chronic diseases. Only in that way will we begin to manage the issue. We will not manage it by simply setting up a register as if that is somehow a magic wand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EFinally, I would say that the Greens supported an amendment to the bill by the M\u0101ori Party to require that the whole wh\u0101nau be involved in consenting to tissue donation. Unfortunately, there was not sufficient support in this House for it, and we are disappointed in that. We felt that very compelling evidence was given that the spiritual beliefs of tangata whenua around death and dying must be respected in organ donation, and we do not think that the bill does address the concerns of M\u0101ori. We wish that that amendment had been accepted. Nevertheless, we feel that overall this bill is very good legislation. As I said, and as others have mentioned, it deals with many other complex issues that I have not even touched on, such as giving much greater oversight to the import and export of tissue, and more stringent informed consent provisions around the use of human embryos. There are complex but very important issues, such as the licensing of schools that use human tissue. The issues are very important and very complex. I really do believe that the Health Committee considered this bill very deeply and in a very wise fashion, and has come up with amendments and a bill that I believe are the most appropriate way forward at this point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u00222362f695944e4eaa9af1309bee84788d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222362f695944e4eaa9af1309bee84788d\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Kei te rere k\u0113 te wairua o t\u0113nei pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. This bill has a strange spirit about it.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EJust under 10 years ago, Te Puni K\u014Dkiri produced a guide, Hauora o te Tinana me \u014Dna Tikanga: a guide for the removal, retention, return and disposal of M\u0101ori body parts, organ donation and post mortem: M\u0101ori and their wh\u0101nau. In the course of its investigation, the reference group was told of one instance where body parts had been retained in a hospital. It appears that the M\u0101ori health services consultant had discovered a freezer full of body parts, all of them labelled with tags identifying the owners as M\u0101ori. Despite the ire of medical specialists, the consultant set about advising iwi and notifying the owners, nearly all of whom were extremely angry. They could not understand how the clear instructions they left with clinicians had been overturned. The M\u0101ori health consultant bore the full extent of their wrath. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThis case illustrates at many levels the range of contradictory and complex reactions that come with issues at the core of this bill. It demonstrates the deterioration of the relationship between M\u0101ori and the health system, and the lack of trust or confidence that their cultural beliefs would be respected. It illustrates also the reluctance of officials to actually respect what M\u0101ori had to say about such a sensitive and sacred area. It revealed a distinct lack of accountability amongst medical professionals to their clients, and it displayed the levels of discomfort M\u0101ori staff are exposed to when attempting to remedy cultural errors. All this was on top of the utter offence that was caused in the first place by the discovery of body parts \u201Cbanked\u201D by the hospital without any acknowledgment of the distress this would cause the families involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EHuman tissue and organ transplantation has become an effective way of treating serious health conditions such as heart disease, and kidney or liver failure. We in the M\u0101ori Party do not underestimate the critical importance of advancing any knowledge we can to counter the rise in chronic disease and chronic medical conditions. At the hub of this issue is the fact that transplantation usually depends on donations from people who have died in crisis, most often as a result of brain damage through stroke, or accidents. Culturally, the importance of being buried whole is absolutely central to this discussion. Concepts such as whakapapa, mauri, ira tangata, tapu, and noa are significant in our world view, as is informed consent, ensuring that information we have about organ donation is relevant and meaningful. What I continue to learn is that, for some, nothing is sacred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EInformed consent is not an individual prerogative. The application and use of human tissue requires the recognition of both individuals and collectives in the consent process. It was on this basis that we in the M\u0101ori Party brought a range of amendments to the bill, to ensure that the collective involvement of wh\u0101nau was provided for in the provisions of the legislation, and we thank the Greens for their support. The amendments we produced would have enabled an overriding objection to the collection or use of that tissue to be raised by a member and on behalf of that individual\u2019s wh\u0101nau or extended family. The effect would have been that the collection or use of the tissue was prohibited. In our world view, allowing individuals to be the sole decision-makers regarding whakapapa material is entirely contrary to our tikanga and the preference for collective involvement. Although the bill does include some consideration of the wishes of the immediate family, it is by no means sufficient to accommodate the views of wh\u0101nau decision-making processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ETangata whenua evidence was once again ignored. Dr Jessica Hutchings, the resident scholar at Te Mata o Te Tau, in Massey University, has undertaken research in the area of genetic and nanotechnologies that confronts the critical issues around the cultural, ethical, and spiritual implications of the collection and use of human tissue. It was her analysis that the issue of informed consent is critical. She has asked the question as to whether our current health system is capable of responding appropriately and sufficiently to issues of protection, informed consent, M\u0101ori control of information and medical processes, and access to information and medical care. Dr Marewa Glover from the faculty of medical and health sciences at the University of Auckland raised the concern also that M\u0101ori have not had the opportunity as wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi to hui and discuss this matter. Her challenge to Parliament was that M\u0101ori need to be engaged in a real way. Having a few M\u0101ori on a committee or writing submissions is not good enough to constitute proper engagement. M\u0101ori need good information and relevant statistics in order to discuss and make decisions of such importance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EI go back to that awful example of the freezer of tagged body parts. We believe that it is an entirely reasonable expectation that in any laws or practices involving human remains, one would acknowledge the world views of tangata whenua as the indigenous peoples of this land. In doing so, we believe that in a tikanga context, any issues relating to human body parts should be included in a discussion that enables the collective wishes of the wh\u0101nau to be taken into account alongside those of an individual. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EI want to pay particular tribute to the chair of the Health Committee, Sue Kedgley, for her commitment to really try to facilitate discussions at the table that recognised the complexities of the cultural context for the legislative agenda related to human tissue. I acknowledge also the legal advisers inside and outside of Parliament who worked hard to put forward options to widen the lens to enable wh\u0101nau to be able to decide the fate of the bodies of their loved ones upon death. We came to this bill as we do to every bill\u2014determined that all legislation can and indeed should recognise tikanga M\u0101ori as was anticipated in the signing of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. But ultimately we were disappointed in the failure of the bill to recognise important cultural values and beliefs outside of a pre-imposed, predetermined Western framework of individual rights. Is it not time for Western values and beliefs to sit alongside those of tangata whenua when making these decisions, not compromising either? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ENo doubt this bill will pass, despite our lone opposition to it. Parliament has missed out on an important opportunity to open up the consent process to recognise indigenous world views, and that is a weakness. The discussions that need to be had around the protection and preservation of whakapapa materials have not been provided for by this legislation, and that is a pity. I have to wonder how we will stimulate education and debate to face the challenge of the critical need to give life alongside our tikanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWhat will be different? Tangata whenua will know that we in the M\u0101ori Party argued passionately and proactively for solutions that could ensure M\u0101ori were informed and included in the wider debate around human tissue, organ donation, and quality health-care, access, and choices. We support live donations of organs between wh\u0101nau members, and we have discussed this matter in our constituency. We have been extremely challenged by this bill, and the life and death choices that are being debated before the House. Our vote of confidence must always be a vote for wh\u0101nau decision-making, a vote for wh\u0101nau rangatiratanga, and a vote for the safeguarding of whakapapa. We will not be supporting this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbde3a2a86ce436da6e03e979983a9bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbde3a2a86ce436da6e03e979983a9bd\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of United Future to speak in support of the third reading of the Human Tissue Bill, and like others who have spoken before, I reflect on the fact that New Zealand, like a lot of other countries, does not have a particularly high organ donor rate, and that the challenges that that provides us as a nation are not easily solved. My background with this issue goes back to the last parliamentary term when I was on the Health Committee. We had some interesting contact with people like Andy Tookey, who was a long-time campaigner for asking Parliament to find some way to improve donation rates in this country. What I remember most clearly was our discussion with medical staff who work at the coalface of this issue, on wards where people on life-support machines have been declared brain-dead, and therefore the machine will be turned off. It is at that moment, during that window of opportunity, that an approach can be made to a family to see whether there is any openness to organ donation. We were told by the medical staff that we can write whatever we like into law, but they will not remove organs from a body if the family objects, because the reality that they deal with is such that they will not comply. So whatever we feel and believe about the need for improved donor rates, we have to live with the reality of what is achievable and possible. However, I still feel that we must not drop the ball on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future believes that we must continue to think laterally and creatively around what possibilities we may not have yet explored for improving donor rates within New Zealand. What occurs to me at this stage\u2014and I have thought about it over a considerable period of time\u2014is that the obvious point, or crux of the matter, is the hearts and minds of family members at what is a very traumatic time in that family\u2019s life. They are the people who decide, and even if they know that their family member was keen to be a donor, the pressures and emotional turmoil they are facing at that time can cloud the issue. This is a stone that I believe has not been fully turned over and explored yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI agree with others that the fact that we have this silly donor provision on our driver\u2019s licence is a complete nonsense. When we sign up for a driver\u2019s licence we want a driver\u2019s licence; we are not thinking about donations. When the question is put to us at that point we make a kind of snap and fairly thoughtless decision one way or another. It is a bit of a blunt instrument and it means nothing. But it occurred to me that we have one other activity in New Zealand, which is in the area of blood donation, whereby when people go and become a blood donor they are in donation mode\u2014that is what they are there for, and that is what they are considering. I think that we miss an opportunity in those circumstances. We have people who sit in a waiting room, have a blood test, lie down and give blood for 10 minutes or so, then sit and have a cup of tea and a biscuit. People can be in the centre for at least half an hour, sometimes even longer, in donor mode, and we do not seem to take what I think is a really respectful opportunity to discuss with people\u2014who are obviously open to making a donation of human tissue\u2014what the options are, and what the ethical issues are, around being a donor, should that sort of tragedy hit them. It occurs to me that that would provide a better opportunity to sign up people or to engage with them on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI am not completely convinced yet that a register would do anything, and that is certainly what the medical staff said to us. They said that we could write diddly-squat in a book but they will not take any notice of it when they are dealing with hard family emotions. But what we could do is provide people who express a willingness to be an organ donor, at that point, with material to give to their family in advance, prior to any tragedy being even a possibility. That can help them engage with their family and have a discussion that could be helpful in the midst of a tragedy when people are making all-important decisions. I have to believe that there is a big difference between somebody ticking a box on a driver\u2019s licence application and saying that he or she is happy to be a donor, and a person who has sat down with his or her family and explained and articulated his or her wishes, the reasons why, and any reservations he or she may have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EOne of the things we learnt is that people who want to be donors may be happy to donate an internal part of their body but they may have a hang-up about donating eyes, retinas, or things like that. They may find eyes a very sacred thing, but there may be other parts of their body that they would happily be a donor of. If people have the ability to sit down and think through those issues with their family and talk about it, in a moment of tragedy there may be an increased willingness by the family to think about that discussion and make that call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI suggest to the House that we have not thoroughly examined every opportunity yet. My suggestion may not work, either, but I do think there are other options. I think that particularly in relation to cultural matters and the issues that the M\u0101ori Party has sought to address\u2014which I think are very, very real\u2014individual families, iwi, and extended families would love the opportunity to sit down and talk through what their response might be ahead of time. Whether that would make a difference at the end of the day, who knows\u2014I cannot make that call even for my own family. But certainly since the last parliamentary term and the petition by Andrew Tookey, I have sat down with my family and clearly articulated to them my wishes should anything happen, and I have clearly articulated to them my reasons behind them. We ended up having an extremely good discussion whereby they went away and thought about their wishes and we talked about it as a family. There were differing views and positions within our own immediate family, but we came out of the discussion with a really clear understanding of what we would like to happen in our family. I do not how we would react if a crisis ever befell us\u2014and God forbid that it ever should\u2014because we can never predict how we would react in those circumstances or in the situation in which we find ourselves, but I do know that the fact that we have had this discussion will be a helpful thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI wonder how it is that we as a nation, and the Government, could help to facilitate those kinds of discussions in families and in other appropriate circumstances where it really could make a difference. I suggest that blood donors would be a good place to start because we are dealing with people who are already willing to make donations of this kind. I think it would be a wasted opportunity to not start there. I do not think that people would feel at all imposed upon in those circumstances, because they are already there making a donation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future is happy to support this bill. We are glad there are some provisions in it that keep the discussion open around organ donation, but we think a lot more could be discussed and that a greater range of options could be considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u002245bed10429794accb026fb361bc5f5b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245bed10429794accb026fb361bc5f5b7\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I welcome the opportunity to speak on the third reading of the Human Tissue Bill as I was on the Health Committee at the time when submissions were heard on this bill. I know that members opposite are interested to hear from members of the select committee about how those submissions proceeded. This was a difficult bill for the select committee members to hear. I thank the members of the select committee and the chair, Sue Kedgley, who spoke before, because we were dealing with issues about untimely deaths, deaths that families were not prepared for, and there were some quite difficult discussions that went on around that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI take the opportunity, while I am on my feet, to pay my respects to our Waikato firefighter Derek Lovell in the event of his untimely death. I also pay my respects to his family, his wife Milli and his daughter Tiffany, who I have visited. Our thoughts go out to those people in the event of that untimely death. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIn the select committee we heard many such tragic tales of personal circumstances that people had found themselves in. We thought about the trauma they had gone through and considered the issue of organ donation and what that meant for them. We also had some submissions from families who had found themselves in that position and did not contemplate the issue of organ donation as it had never been raised with them. They were there to say to the select committee that as difficult as it would have been for them at the time, they wished there had been quite a standard process whereby they had been asked to consider the issue. So we did hear submissions from all aspects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThere were quite a number of aspects to this bill. People have spoken about the organ donation issue substantially in the course of this third reading debate, probably because that was the one that really touched our hearts the most, I suspect, and because it was very controversial. However, there are many controversial aspects to this bill. It covers how to deal with human tissue with regard to research and education, and it also deals with a range of other very sensitive issues. I want to speak to a couple of those issues today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWe heard from previous speakers that the bill as first introduced to the House had a number of significant amendments recommended to it by the select committee. Two of the more technical amendments concerned foetal tissue and the collection and use of gametes and embryos. I alert the House to the fact that although organ donation is controversial and emotive, we had several other equally controversial and emotive issues to deal with. I want to briefly outline those two important amendments today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWith regard to foetal tissue, the amendment recommended by the select committee clarified the consent process for use of human tissue from dead foetuses. Although the Human Tissue Act 1964 specifically excludes stillborn children from the definition of \u201Cbody\u201D, the Human Tissue Bill includes dead foetuses and stillborn children as a specific type of foetus, thereby ensuring that situations not covered by the Code of Health and Disability Consumers\u2019 Rights are in fact covered by the consent framework in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EFoetal tissue that is removed or obtained in the course of a health care procedure is covered by the code and not by the Human Tissue Bill. This includes foetal tissue removed as a result of termination or stillborn children delivered with the assistance of a health practitioner. In these situations the foetal tissue is treated as a body part of the mother, and the mother would have the right to make an informed choice about the use of that tissue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EHaving described that, I imagine that listeners to this debate can well understand the range of emotive issues and very tricky situations that the select committee considered. We were helped in the course of our deliberations by the officials, who were able to talk to us about the technical realities of the decisions we were making as a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe Human Tissue Bill covers foetal tissue that is not removed or obtained in the course of a health care procedure. So the consent framework applies to foetal tissue that is inside the body of a dead mother; to foetal tissue that has issued from the mother but not in the course of a health care procedure, for example through a miscarriage or birth of a stillborn child without assistance from a health practitioner; and to foetal tissue where the mother gave consent to collection and use of tissue under the code and where the mother has since died and someone wants to use the tissue for a purpose not covered by the original consent. Although there will be few situations where the bill rather than the code will apply, it is important that the bill makes clear who can consent in these situations. The new clause does just that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe second important amendment that I want to outline to the House today is with regard to the collection and use of gametes and embryos. This second amendment ensures that the collection and use of gametes and embryos from dead people is covered by the Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Act\u2014known as the HART Act\u2014which was passed in 2004. This bill amends that Act to provide for regulations requiring informed consent for the collection of gametes and embryos from dead people for reproductive procedures, reproductive research, or other lawful purposes. The specific form or content of the regulations will reflect the outcome of the consultation process currently being led by the Advisory Committee on Assisted Reproductive Technology. This is a sensible approach. The consent framework in the Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Act, which requires consent of the individual, is more appropriate than the consent framework in this bill, which allows consent to be given by various people other than the individual concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI return briefly to the issue of organ donation, which has been well canvassed in the course of this debate. There has been some discussion about drivers\u2019 licences and whether they are the appropriate place for an individual to indicate willingness to donate. I would argue, outside the scope of this bill, that as an educative process it is actually very useful for people when being issued their drivers\u2019 licences to think carefully about the issue of organ donation. I think the choice whether to indicate willingness to donate causes people to think seriously about the responsibility that comes with having a driver\u2019s licence issued to them. It raises that prospect of the thing that we never like to think about\u2014that is, an unexpected or untimely death. I think it is quite appropriate in the issuing of drivers\u2019 licences that people do stop and reflect on the responsibility that has been handed to them when they take up a driver\u2019s licence and get out on our roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EOf course, we know that road accidents are a major cause of unexpected and untimely deaths, so I think it is appropriate that people are called to think about that with regard to that process. However, members have quite rightly put before this House today in this debate that the option of indicating willingness to donate on drivers\u2019 licences has not resolved the issues about the consenting that goes with that. It is not a legally binding document and it does not give effect as people had perhaps, in a misguided way, thought it would when they made that decision and stated a willingness to donate on their drivers\u2019 licences. I think it is entirely appropriate that in addition to that process the consent processes are spelt out now in this bill. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u00228aa9c70e09cc4dd2b2e2cde926680ade\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228aa9c70e09cc4dd2b2e2cde926680ade\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a brief call on this Human Tissue Bill. I think the issues have been well canvassed. As members know, National will be supporting the bill. I note, though, that there would have been a great opportunity for an organ donor register to be established. I know that this bill has provision for that to happen in the future, but I listened with interest to the arguments saying that we cannot establish an organ donor register because there is no evidence that it will be effective. The very people who are making that argument will want to regulate through the Public Health Bill for fairly Draconian measures for which there is no evidence either. So there seems to be a fairly inconsistent approach there. I think maybe the Green Party and some members of the Labour Party need to look carefully at the issue of evidence to be considered before a measure is instituted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThis bill updates the previous legislation so that the cultural needs and beliefs of our nation as we are in the 21st century are taken into account. We think that is a very good thing. The committee heard a range of submissions. There were some very compelling stories, and certainly this bill was the most intellectually challenging that the Health Committee has been confronted with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe bill involved a great deal of questioning and reading, but it is good that this legislation is coming to pass and that the House will be passing it today. My only regret is that it would have been a great opportunity for the establishment of a donor register, but the door is open and I am sure a future Parliament will be called upon to consider the issue, again. Those are my concluding comments, and it is good this bill will be passed today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u00225da88e46636941d583876b09ceafca1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225da88e46636941d583876b09ceafca1b\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to come down to the Chamber to take a call on this Human Tissue Bill. It has a very interesting history. It began with a Law Commission report that prompted us about ways forward to care for human tissue. I acknowledge that we started it off really with Jackie Blue\u2019s Organ Donation Bill, which was discharged, and then this Human Tissue Bill came into being. The Human Tissue Act is 44 years out of date and this bill is really needed today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI think we have become a little bit confused about some of the issues that we all find to be very, very sensitive. In the past, I used to be in charge of a service that linked very closely with intensive care and intensivists, the collection of organs for organ donation, and Auckland hospital. Never were the wishes of family overridden. But we were lucky; we were in a hospital that set up an environment that encouraged cultural participation, with Te Whakaruruhau and the Hunga Manaaki Service walking alongside families. I knew the sensitivity of these issues and how that ought to be reflected in a bill. It was interesting when I was pursuing a member\u2019s bill and went up to Auckland to talk over these issues with the intensivists and found that they were really aware that those issues could be addressed through the training and cultural awareness of all staff who need to deal with the retrieval and management of human tissue. I believe that this bill is really just setting up the framework for regulating the collection, storage, and use of human tissue, and any health provider involved in this aspect of medical care, which is a very sensitive one, really needs to be well educated on the cultural issues. I remind the House too that those cultural issues are not the exclusive domain of M\u0101ori; they are also issues for P\u0101keh\u0101, Indian, or anybody when they are dealing with the care of the deceased and the retrieval of organs from the deceased. I want to cover off here that that is primarily what this bill is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EOrgan Donation New Zealand is well established, and it is run from Auckland. It looks after the retrieval of organs right throughout New Zealand, and it is absolutely adamant that its role is about education and raising the community\u2019s awareness. Although I know it is a sensitive issue for many families, hopefully they will look at issues like the advanced directive or what the will of parents and family are, if they were to meet with an untimely death. My family knows exactly what to do with my human tissue, and what I would want to see if there was anything useful left there to use. It is an open discussion in our family. We are a bicultural family yet it is not an issue that has really spooked us, at all. We have had the open discussions, and I know how my family will look after my remains if something happened to me. Many families in the hospital setting, when somebody comes and walks beside the family and explains, along with clinicians, about the intention and the purpose for human tissue retrieval, and when they get time to reflect, and are not pressured, are usually quite happy to make a decision. No intensivists will move, unless that environment has been set up for families. Those are the issues that intensivists take notice of. Intensivists told me, as they told Judy Turner, that they would never look at the motor vehicle licence and whether the person had ticked the donor box. Just because someone has signed the motor vehicle licence to say that he or she would like to be a human tissue donor, it is not going to cloud their decisions on diving in to retrieve organs. I understand their reasons for not doing that. They want to provide the right clinical environment, which supports families to make the right decision on behalf of their deceased loved ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EOne of the underlying principles that I like about the Human Tissue Bill is that of informed consent. I believe we have to have a clinical environment in which we trust clinicians to deal sensitively with patients to bring out the issue with wider family about what informed consent really means. That means covering off how the tissue will be stored, how it is collected, and whether they can later have access to that tissue. I think New Zealand learnt a lot when we were all horrified by the infant hearts\u2019 issue at Green Lane Hospital. We realised, absolutely, that there was no system around the collection and maintenance of those organs. That horrified us all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe have come a long way since that Green Lane Hospital infant hearts\u2019 issue. The public discussion around both Jackie Blue\u2019s bill and this Human Tissue Bill, involving very, very complex issues, has been fantastic. We can now talk openly with families about what they think about this, what they feel comfortable with, and that is what is to be applauded. We now have that environment in the clinical setting, but we need more discussions out in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThis bill is consistent with the Code of Health and Disability Services Consumers\u2019 Rights, which is a very important document in every clinical setting so that patients know their code of rights, and the bill does comply with that. I am pleased that my colleague Sue Moroney rounded off very carefully the issues that are dealt with in the Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Act, because they should not be confused with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThis bill is very sound, and I congratulate the Health Committee under the chairpersonship of Sue Kedgley. It has come up with a very sensible option, and the bill will be very well received by New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaeca9f95a1a40c4845ac14171409bf8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaeca9f95a1a40c4845ac14171409bf8\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a brief call on the Human Tissue Bill before us this evening. It is hugely important to this country, and National will be supporting it. National members on the Health Committee did a lot of good work on the original member\u2019s bill brought in by Jackie Blue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe reason this legislation is very important is that there is a shortage of vital organs for donation. It is pretty hard to talk about people\u2019s inner anatomy in detail but basically there is a shortage of organs, particularly kidneys, livers, and hearts. When people have been in an accident and are fighting for their lives, we need to ensure there are enough of those vital organs available for them. When one reads through this bill, it appears there is a shortage of them, and, unfortunately, this bill also does not capture the organ donor register issue. It is a very, very topical issue and I think that in time Parliament will have to revisit it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ENational will support the Human Tissue Bill because it is of vital importance. I acknowledge the hard work of the Health Committee. This bill is very complex. I have just had a read through of it and those listening may not realise that it comprises 70 pages. I believe that this Parliament will need to address the organ donor register. It is one of the most important parts that are missing from this bill, and that is a challenge going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e31458f34384161a889df77286899cc\u0022\u003EElectricity (Disconnection and Low Fixed Charges) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e203738692d24b9582c7f54316c49014\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000483\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 19 March.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022350e4d5f0bf947bd9aa24901549fe114\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022350e4d5f0bf947bd9aa24901549fe114\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party has been supporting this bill to, and through, the select committee. The bill ensures that the Government can regulate the content of voluntary disconnection guidelines that the Electricity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022897f957ddcd5406ea783643f76543789\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s been to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf60824463004aae80b69a3e92e383e6\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. We supported it being referred to the select committee, we supported it coming out of the select committee, and we continue to support it through this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EOne of the issues we raised during that time was what Helen Clark herself said\u2014this was all brought about, members will recall, by the Mercury Energy debacle\u2014that Mercury Energy was in breach of the social responsibilities written into the existing law under which State-owned enterprises operate. Why then was there a rush by Labour to further regulate? We knew at that time that Labour was cultivating the perception that the law is loose and needs changing, but in reality Mercury Energy and its board should not have been let off the hook that easily. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThis was a reaction that the Government took to an incident that either it should have known was going to come over the hill in a widespread way, and therefore fixed it, or it should have recognised that it was a one-off incident that does not require further onerous regulation. None of those questions were asked at the time. Essentially we had a family put in a tremendously difficult situation, and the Prime Minister had to front up and say she would pass more regulation. There was no thought put into it at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe bill went to the Commerce Committee, and members worked hard to improve it\u2014National members certainly did cooperate. The bill has now come out of select committee, and we are happy to support it. But we were anxious about the ease and speed at which this Labour Government decided that regulation and more legislation would fix the problem. That is its reaction to everything: if it moves, regulate it; if it moves again, tax it. We cannot run a country like that because it simply grinds everyone down. It grinds them down with the costs, and it grinds them down with the paperwork. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EBut the select committee members, as I say, have improved this legislation to a point where we are happy to support this bill now, and I let the House know that the National Party will be voting for it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00228bf22b9541da4d78a5eb38c1ec60e63b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bf22b9541da4d78a5eb38c1ec60e63b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the Electricity (Disconnection and Low Fixed Charges) Amendment Bill, and I thank National members for their indication that they are going to support it. The bill has two main parts. The first relates to amending the definition of \u201Clow-use consumer\u201D for the purpose of the low fixed-charge tariff option. I would not want to overstate the benefits that that tariff option confers upon low users of electricity who can opt for a lower fixed-charge option. Rather than choosing a higher fixed-charge option and lower variable costs, those electricity users can chose a low fixed-charge option and higher variable costs for the electricity that they use, where that is to their benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe rules as they are now\u2014before this bill\u2014confer additional benefits to the areas in the country that are warmer and as a consequence do not have to spend as much on heating as colder districts. The effect of that, for example, is that more Auckland consumers, on average, benefit from the low fixed-charge option than Invercargill consumers, notwithstanding the fact that in some ways the Invercargill consumers need the low fixed-charge option more because they live in a colder part of the country and therefore have to spend more, on average, on heating, and they have higher electricity bills. It is rather unfortunate that the rules as they currently stand apply the same threshold for the low fixed-charge option across the country and do not differentiate between different parts of the country based on average use that reflects how cold it is in different parts of the country and how much people have to spend on electricity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill fixes that problem by creating more than one region within New Zealand for the purposes of the low fixed-charge option. It creates a regulation-making power under the legislation, the Electricity Act 1992, which enables regulations to be promulgated that have that effect, so that we have more equity in terms of the operation of the low fixed-charge option between Auckland and Invercargill, to use the example I just referred to. This will be of benefit to low-quantity electricity consumers. The threshold is currently 8,000 kilowatt hours throughout New Zealand. That threshold will, in due course, be lifted for some parts of the South Island where the low fixed-charge option is currently unavailable to some people, because most people use more than 8,000 kilowatts an hour, which is the threshold. Most people in Invercargill would use more than that because it is colder and, as I say, they have to use more electricity to heat their houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere are some other minor alterations in the bill. There is a power for the Minister to grant exemptions from the low fixed-charge option. This provision is directed to small, isolated networks that are not connected to the national grid. For example, on some of our offshore islands where there is a very small pool of customers paying for the network, the cost of servicing those customers can be higher than is the norm for the larger grid networks in other parts. The provision enables those who are running power systems in those isolated areas to have an exemption from the low fixed-charge option, because it is not practicable or fair to apply it in those areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other change that is made under the Electricity Act is that regulations can now be made to protect vulnerable consumers from inappropriate disconnection. We had the terrible situation last year where mistakes were made that led to the disconnection of someone who was in need of electricity for medical support, and that is a situation that I do not think anyone wants to see happen again. At that time the Government found that it did not have a regulation-making power that would have entitled the Government to fix the situation; we were reliant upon voluntary efforts on the part of the electricity companies. The electricity companies, in fairness to them, have responded very well, and unnecessary disconnections have decreased as a consequence of their looking again at what their rules and procedures should be surrounding disconnection. The electricity companies have done this under the guidance of the Electricity Commission, which has developed guidelines that electricity retailers until now have adopted voluntarily. We were in the position where had that voluntary agreement not been secured, we would have lacked the legislative power to fix it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EDespite the fact that most people in New Zealand realise that it ought to be within the power of Governments to require electricity companies to do things in a certain way, we did not have the ability to require it. Now it appears that these powers will not be needed to be used in the near future, but it does seem responsible that the Government has these powers. If, in the future, regulations are necessary to protect vulnerable consumers who might need electricity to maintain electrical devices they need for their health, for example, it seems appropriate that the Act should include regulation-making powers to enable the Government to make those regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI thank the Commerce Committee for its consideration of the bill, and I thank the other parties who are going to support it. The committee was unanimous, I note, in its report back, and the only change made to the bill was a minor one. I look forward to the passage of this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00225a616cbfaf5847edb1c5589f538adf65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a616cbfaf5847edb1c5589f538adf65\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E I will take the opportunity to speak briefly on this bill, which I think is very sensible legislation and another necessary piece, I guess, in putting Humpty-Dumpty back together again. I acknowledge the efforts of my colleague the Hon David Parker in the part he has played, because the reality is that when Max Bradford deregulated the electricity industry, Humpty-Dumpty fell off the wall. Since that time we have been trying to put him back together again so that we have a fully integrated energy system, delivering reliable electricity to people up and down this country. There were investments over decades and decades to have an integrated system, but of course that was all thrown to the wind by the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EMr Heatley, who spoke just before, clearly identified the tried and disproved theory that the market will deliver to everyone. Well, the fact is that it will not, and in electricity in particular we need to protect the integration, the coordination, and the cooperation of all participants to make sure that when we turn the switch on, the lights will come on as well\u2014particularly for those consumers who rely on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis bill, as my colleague said, does two things. It strengthens the regulation-making powers, if needed, to ensure that the disconnection practices of electricity retailers adequately protect the needs of vulnerable customers\u2014people who are relying on electricity for their lives, in effect. In the tragedy last year in May\u2014where I am sure the electricity retailer had no intention of causing harm in any way, but the cold hard market reality of disconnection applied because bills were not paid\u2014we saw, unfortunately, the death of a New Zealander. We do not want that situation to continue and I think it is good that we have legislation that allows these regulations to be made. It does not impose them; it just allows them to be made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe next component of the bill is something I have some knowledge of, in coming from the West Coast. We are fortunate that although we live in a mild climate it does not get freezing cold, but there is the need for energy and many constituents have access to coal. So over those winter periods they have used relatively small amounts of energy. They are superannuitants and they are beneficiaries, for the most part, and they watch every penny because they have to\u2014and good on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe bill raises the threshold of the low fixed-charge eligibility so that it allows them to use not 8,000 kilowatt hours but up to 9,000 kilowatt hours, on average, below which they will be entitled to a low fixed-charge regime from the retailer. That means there is an incentive for them to use less power, and they will not be penalised adversely as they were in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257ee392f4af5487ab2714c1ac4c469c8\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ll get taxed for greenhouse gas emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dff42fe484b2450e920b45d52d80c0db\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Again, it identifies the need for the Government to intervene through regulation, through guidance, in a way that the National Party, I tell Mr Ardern, would not have any idea of. He still thinks that the market will deliver to him and his farming mates. But they know well that they need some guidance from time to time. They need guidance from time to time, and regulation, to ensure we have a good sound economy that will not run off the rails. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis bill is necessary to take us one step further down the path to try to reconstruct a fully coordinated energy system that provides the right incentives for energy efficiency, and that allows people to come in with new ideas, but that protects consumers and businesses from the rorts that could occur under a market model, because electricity is a vital component of both industry and private living. It is therefore important that we have guidance through the Electricity Commission. Again, I applaud the efforts of the Hon David Parker and his oversight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5f020c8519541cb9caa7350413d89e0\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s he going to do for the West Coasters who burn coal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221df60ca0ff994ee7bbc4d16c228c8e56\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014of changes that have further improved the regime to ensure that this economy can carry on, particularly in rural areas. Mr Ardern does not give a damn, because he thinks that the market will deliver to his rural constituents. No, no, we do require guidance, particularly in the area of electricity. In fact, one of the key proposals in Max Bradford\u2019s wonderful restructuring was that beyond 2013 there would be no obligation to provide electricity to rural consumers. What a ridiculous proposal! The Government has stepped in and said that that obligation will continue, as it rightfully should, but Mr Ardern and his National colleagues, led by Max Bradford some time ago in restructuring the industry, thought that they could remove the obligation for lines companies to provide for rural consumers. This is the heart and soul of the New Zealand economy; these are the people out shearing the sheep, milking the cows, and living in rural houses. These people need electricity, but Max Bradford and the National Party said that it was not necessary to supply beyond 2013. Well, we have stepped in and said that that obligation will continue. We will also continue to step in where necessary, and when the Electricity Commission comes to us seeking further guidance, to ensure that we have a fully integrated, working, operative, and fair system of delivering electricity across this country so that we can get on and develop the economy in the way that it needs to be developed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIf we reverted to the policies that drove the electricity sector under National, we would have people ripped off left, right, and centre under the market model, we would have no obligation to supply\u2014unless there was an opportunity\u2014and we would see a rundown of electricity supply to the rural sector; there is no doubt about it. Mr Ardern knows that. He knows full well that his party\u2019s restructuring of electricity was flawed. It failed, and without the passage of legislation such as this that we have in the House today, not only would we see social ruin in this country but we would have economic ruin, as well. I applaud the initiatives of my colleagues and Mr Parker in moving this legislation forward, and I look forward to Mr Ardern getting up and saying something in support of his rural constituents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EDoes Mr Ardern agree with the Government when it says that there should be an ongoing obligation on lines companies to provide electricity beyond 2013, or does he say, as his party says, there should be no obligation? I look forward to him standing up and taking the opportunity that he has in the House now. He has the opportunity to stand up and say what he is doing for his rural constituents. We need to pass this legislation to protect vulnerable New Zealanders who rely on electricity for their lives, and we need to pass it to ensure there are incentives for energy efficiency for low users of electricity in regions such as the West Coast\u2014where there are options other than electricity, but where they would otherwise, under the market model, be hammered by high lines charges and probably by high unit costs under a National Government as well, without any oversight or regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt is really important that this legislation progresses. I am very happy to have taken the call and taken the opportunity to put a few points on the table, and to challenge the National members and ask whether, in 2013, they would remove the obligation to continue to supply rural constituents and rural electricity users. That is maybe one little question that National members could answer, because they cannot answer any of the big ones, particularly around the issue of electricity. Would those members sell off Meridian Energy? Would they sell off the State-owned energy generators in this country? I put it to the House that they would have to in order to pay for their extravagant tax cut promises, although we never know. That might change tomorrow, as happens with most National Party policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022349bb38372b04ef894902d88a1fee72e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022349bb38372b04ef894902d88a1fee72e\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E This Electricity (Disconnection and Low Fixed Charges) Amendment Bill is a very unambitious little bill that will not change the status quo very much. The Greens will vote for it because it does no harm and it may do a little good, but it will not take us very far towards the further unravelling of the Bradford mess that was created a decade ago now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ENobody could disagree that vulnerable consumers with perhaps a poor command of English, with health problems, on low incomes, and with all the vulnerability that goes with that socioeconomic status ought to be protected from the terrible fate of the Muliaga family. I think that nobody would object to the fact that there will be guidelines that can be regulated and made mandatory if the industry does not play ball. I am quite sure that the industry learnt its lesson from the tragedy that occurred in Auckland and the publicity that surrounded it. I am quite sure that the industry will take a lot more care in future not to let that happen again, but, just in case, there is a power to regulate here, and we support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe other main thing the bill attempts to deal with is tweaking the low fixed charges. Low fixed charges came about initially as a compromise offered by a former Minister of Energy, the Hon Pete Hodgson, when I approached him to implement what used to be Labour\u2019s policy on energy. It is still Green policy that there should be no fixed charges. Many other industries have high overhead costs, as well. They have fixed costs, and they cover those fixed costs in their per unit charge. If I drive on to the forecourt to buy petrol, I do not have to pay $20 to get on to the forecourt before I start filling up and then get the petrol at 50c a litre. The high fixed charges the petrol station has are covered by the per unit cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ESo it should be for electricity, because having any fixed charge is a very perverse incentive. It is a perverse incentive to save electricity, because electricity at the margin is cheaper, and one is locked into this fixed cost, regardless of how much one uses. It is a perverse incentive to invest in energy efficiency, as it mitigates particularly strongly against those on low incomes who use small amounts of power, and it makes electricity proportionately cheaper for the homes with spa pools, underfloor heating, three bathrooms, air conditioning going all summer, and five heated towel rails that are never turned off. It has always been Green Party policy that there should be no fixed charges, and it was, for many years, Labour Party policy that there should be no fixed charges, but that was dropped when Labour came into Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EIn 2000 or 2001 I debated this issue with Peter Hodgson, and he offered the compromise approach whereby every company should be required to offer an optional tariff, where the fixed charge was no more than 30c a day. That would make sense if people were low users and it would not make sense if they were high users. Well, it was a very compromised, ineffective solution, as it turned out. It was probably slightly better than nothing, but not a whole lot better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Minister is now tweaking it so that the level at which that low fixed charge becomes economic for people varies, depending on the climate zone they are in, and that is a sensible thing to do, too. But it does not go any way at all towards addressing the real problem of electricity pricing, which is that electricity pricing is trying to do two things at the same time. It is trying to make electricity affordable for those who can least afford it and who still have to keep warm, cook their food, and have light. It is a social necessity, and we should make sure that it is available to all citizens. At the same time, the pricing needs to send a signal that people will save money if they save electricity, that it is worth being efficient, that it is worth putting in more efficient technology, that it is worth investing in insulating houses, and that it is worth putting in solar heating and all the other things that can be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EHow do we do both those things at once? The first one requires low charges; the second one requires high charges. There is a solution to that problem. I have put it forward many times. I put it forward in my first reading speech on this bill. The solution was considered by the Commerce Committee and discounted, and I put it forward again now. It is that people should pay a low rate for the first part of their power bill and pay a higher rate for the last part of their power bill. In other words, the price at the margin needs to go up to give the signal that it is cost-effective to be energy efficient, and the price for the baseload needs to go down to make sure that a basic amount of electricity, to keep body and soul together and warm, is at an affordable price. It has been done in other countries. It is entirely doable. We give every household a basic block of power at a relatively low tariff, and then we have ascending steps of tariffs above that, with the top tariff being quite a bit higher than it is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe intent is for the overall system to be revenue neutral. We would not be asking the power companies to subsidise anything. We would simply be following the costs of supply in that our old hydro lakes, which everybody deserves a share of, are cheap to run, and everyone should have a share of those. The power that is really expensive is the last thermal station that was built, which is much more expensive to run. We should let the people who make that necessary pay those higher prices. It is a well-established formula, and it could be achieved. But, unfortunately, there was nobody on the Commerce Committee that considered this bill who understood progressive pricing. The Greens, with only six members in the House, do not have the right to a seat on the Commerce Committee, so we were not there to argue the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe select committee report states: \u201CSome submitters said that they would prefer progressive pricing to low fixed charge tariffs. \u2026 However, we disagree with this view for the following reasons. First, designing a progressive pricing scheme is complex,\u201D\u2014well, I would ask whether anybody can point to anything in the electricity industry that is not complex these days\u2014\u201Cand raises issues such as how to prevent retailers from raising other prices to recover the loss of revenue resulting from the restriction.\u201D Well, that is exactly what retailers are meant to do. Retailers are meant to design a stepped tariff so that they recover the revenue from the top step to make up for the revenue they lose on the bottom step. That is the whole purpose of it, and it is meant to come out revenue neutral. It is a little bit like a progressive tax system, where people who earn only $15,000 a year pay a lower rate of tax than those who earn $150,000. So I do not think that the select committee\u2019s first concern stands, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe select committee report goes on to state: \u201CSecondly, a progressive pricing scheme might encourage retailers to actively seek to shed small consumers to minimise loss.\u201D That is a genuine concern, but I think that it can be managed through the regulatory system, and there is a prohibition now on just disconnecting people. The report goes on to state: \u201CThirdly, progressive pricing tends to distort marginal cost price signals, resulting in less efficient consumption and investment decisions.\u201D I am sorry, but that is absolutely what it does not do. Progressive pricing gives us a high marginal price signal, which encourages people to invest in energy efficiency and renewables, and it thereby saves the cost of the next power station, which is always more expensive than all the preceding power stations. So it is really unfortunate that nobody on the Commerce Committee was prepared to take this up, and therefore the bill remains largely unchanged in this respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022327a2cfce1974c468e792f4828405427\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022327a2cfce1974c468e792f4828405427\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to take a short call on behalf of my colleague Peter Brown, who is unable to take this call tonight. Energy is his portfolio. Having listened to the previous speaker, Jeanette Fitzsimons, the leader of the Green Party, I did a quick skim back through the membership of the Commerce Committee. I noted that not only were the Greens not there but also New Zealand First members were not there. Maybe some of these committees lack the extra peripheral vision that sometimes comes with having alternate parties represented more strongly and more forcefully on them. One of the sad realities of having a Parliament dominated by the two old-hack parties is that we tend to get the same two old-hack views. When alternate parties do not get a seat, we clearly do not get alternate views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6842c5a1c7d4d8f85a9c844872f86a8\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CMr Xenophobia\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d291e6e5a024ae2bff47c9c0d306bd4\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: We have people like John Hayes, the outgoing member for Wairarapa, sitting there and championing Max Bradford\u2019s reforms, which were going to be the solution to all of our electricity problems. Clearly they are not. I guess it is a source of embarrassment to National members every time I say \u201CMax Bradford\u201D, and Wayne Mapp has just shuddered visibly in front of me in the House. I can understand why he would do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI cannot help but notice a couple of things. Mr Hayes should not chuck such unparliamentary terms as \u201Cxenophobia\u201D across the House, and he should not accuse a member of being xenophobic. Mr Hayes entered into a rather horrible deal with a lady of Asian descent, and a figure of about $980,000 was involved. I heard on the grapevine that after some considerable pressure he has paid most of that money back to her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022628a0329280c40db9c1df0c4a8f8a092\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Narrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b785220d879f42a1924f74244213b42e\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I know that I need to narrow the debate, but xenophobia has nothing to do with the electricity legislation before us, and if Mr Hayes is able to make such interjections he does deserve a bit of a slap-down on that note. If he would just look after the Asian investors whom some people have accused him of ripping off, we would not be in these embarrassing situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI want to say, at this point in time, because it seems the entire House is in agreement, that New Zealand First will support this Electricity (Disconnection and Low Fixed Charges) Amendment Bill. Sometimes when we are passing reforms through this House, such as those of the previous National Government, under the guidance of Max Bradford\u2014who gave us the wonderful electricity reforms that were marketed as giving higher competition into the market, giving our farming community a better choice, and giving businesses a better choice, and through those choices there would be cheaper prices\u2014we get so fooled by the smoke that Cabinet Ministers put up that we fail to see the reality until it smacks us in the face. Sadly, the incident that arose that brought this legislation to the House smacked us all in the face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ESome of those people who today sit on the Opposition front bench\u2014including the three seats occupied by Nick Smith, Lockwood Smith, and Maurice Williamson, and they were all sitting there this afternoon\u2014were front-bench Cabinet members in that Government. And this is supposedly the refreshed look of the incoming Government! There ain\u2019t nothing refreshing about those faces. They are tired and old. We would have more confidence if we saw some of the younger, more enlightened members who are sitting on the Opposition backbenches, like Shane Ardern and Nathan Guy, coming to the front bench. If they came to the front benches, we might be able to have some confidence going forward that we would have a better looking Government-in-waiting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI was trying to say that all of us, as members of Parliament, spend our time trying to help low-income families, particularly those on fixed incomes such as the elderly, to make ends meet. All of us from the Canterbury area and, I assume, from down in the lower regions of the South Island where it is colder\u2014some of those marginal areas that have been discussed this evening\u2014end up dealing with people who are too afraid to turn on their heaters in their homes because of the cost of the bills. I know, from the experience of knocking on doors at 11 o\u2019clock in the morning, in Christchurch in the winter, that I have very often found elderly people sitting wrapped up in quilts because they have been too afraid to put on their electric heaters. This is complicated by the fact that Christchurch then ripped all the fireplaces out of the State homes and the council homes, in pursuit of a clean-air policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EMy only message to some parties in this House is that when they pursue particular philosophies, like market-driven forces and the idea that the \u201Cmarket will deliver\u201D, and they repeat that mantra, or when they pursue policies on the environment and advocate that at all costs we must clean up the air, we need to spread our vision a little bit and think about the consequences. The consequence of taking all the fireplaces out of the homes of the elderly and the low-income families in Christchurch was that many froze to death. They could not afford to turn on the electric fires in their homes, and they were too terrified of the consequences of doing that in peak winter consumptive periods. Unfortunately, the tragedy that occurred in Auckland, and the death in respect of that case, brought that message home loud and clear, but it is a message that came home far too late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI think New Zealand First\u2019s only plea to people, particularly to the members of the two major parties, because they tend to dominate what happens in this House, is to apply a little peripheral vision, a little less of the ideology, a little less of the mantra, and a little bit more practicality. The members of those parties should go down to the farm and talk to some of the cockies who have been living through these conditions and trying to manage businesses in the most extreme climates and in the most demanding of times. They should take a dose of reality. They should go into the low-income suburbs such as Aranui in Christchurch, and in west Auckland and South Auckland, and look at the real impacts. When those members start preaching the mantra that the market will deliver, they should please remember that the market\u2019s prime motive, and the prime motive for the electricity industry\u2014an area where we cannot afford to lose our conscience\u2014when given that free rein, is to make a profit. That is all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt is good to see this legislation here, because it does return some conscience to the operation of the electricity industry. This legislation returns a little reality, and it brings a wider view to all of us in this place that we have a wider responsibility to taxpayers, to the consumers of electricity, and to the citizens of this nation than simply to return a profit and a bottom line to our ledgers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022e202ce3168c44d0f991c84d5db00630a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e202ce3168c44d0f991c84d5db00630a\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Many people in the history of our great nation are remembered for their exploits\u2014Hone Heke for chopping down the flagpole, Sir Apirana Ngata for the work he did as a parliamentarian, Sir James H\u0113nare for leading the Maori Battalion and for his work as a statesman, Buck Shelford for his leadership in rugby, and so on. Unfortunate though it may seem, the name Folole Muliaga will now forever be associated with this Electricity (Disconnection and Low Fixed Charges) Amendment Bill. This is a bill that reminds us of the helplessness and the tragedy of daily life for far too many New Zealanders. The tragedy is not the fact that we have low-income families in our midst. There will always be those who struggle. The tragedy is how deaf we have become to the plight of an ever-increasing sector of our community, and the helplessness that poor people feel about a society that treats them like a boil on the butt rather than as people in need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe know of the Electricity Commission\u2019s guidelines on arrangements to assist low-income domestic consumers, the recognition of the special needs of those with health or disability issues, and the fact that the commission wanted the power companies to deal with low-income consumers. But we also know that the existence of such guidelines is recognition of the growing gap between the haves and have-nots in our society. We know that New Zealanders are being crippled by the massive hike in housing prices. We know that 250,000 households get Work and Income\u2019s accommodation supplement for low-income earners and beneficiaries. We know that some 230,000 kids miss out on support from the Working for Families package, simply because their parents are on a benefit. We know that far too many New Zealanders are being forced to buy cheap, nasty food because their money is being gobbled up by rents and other things. We recall with great sadness, even though the guidelines existed, that there was nothing in place to deal with the heartless response of the call centre that flat-out refused even to discuss any other payment arrangements for the Muliaga family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe welcome this bill if it helps to improve the training of the call centre staff, if it helps people threatened with disconnection, and if it helps poor people understand their rights, how to talk to power companies about what different charges mean, how often bills come along, what the penalties are if people are late in paying, how people handle any disputes, and how people find out whether there will be any power shutdowns. The challenge, of course, is how to communicate all this to the consumers. Will a pamphlet or a note on a website do? How do power companies tell who is at risk? What happens when a household is close to being cut off? How do power companies teach vulnerable consumers about their rights? How are other agencies involved, such as iwi, health and social service groups, Work and Income, and budgeting services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EI ask these questions because something else we in the M\u0101ori Party know is that putting information on websites, putting out more pamphlets, and telling people they are welcome to discuss various aspects of their power bill does not work, for the simple reason that poor people do not ask rational questions about power supply and default procedures. They do not know how to ask. They are too shy of looking dumb, so they look at the ground, they smile, they mumble a \u201Cyes\u201D when asked whether they understand, they shuffle their feet, they nod while being talked to, but most of them just want those helping them to go away, because they feel uneasy standing on their porches next to rotting rubbish bags or smelling the stink of clothes in the wash house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe know that disconnection affects a family in heaps of ways, such as no TV, no kai, not being able to flush the toilet, no hot water to wash with, no light for homework, and the heater cannot be turned on. People start blaming one another, families start bickering and fighting, and kids sneak off to their mates\u2019 places because they hate being in the dark. We also know that disconnection leads to dangerous situations like fires in unsafe places from candles being close to beds, and people trying to hot-wire their houses in the dark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ESure, none of us wants to see people get their power cut off, but in a time of rising food prices, rising petrol prices, unreachable house prices, and rising electricity prices disconnections are a fact of life that we have to deal with. Electricity price rises and disconnections affect not only poor people. The Federation of Family Budgeting Services has issued a warning that while in 2002 the average debt owed by clients was $2,500, today that debt is a staggering $6,000. The federation has also warned that more and more middle-income people are struggling with mortgages, rent, and making ends meet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWhat happened to the Muliaga family last July was a tragedy. What happened to the rest of society was a brutal wake-up call. Hopefully, this bill will lead to better things. It would be nice to think that power companies have learnt something, and we hope the new measures proposed in this bill will help consumers understand how to better manage their power costs. But I worry that our response will look great on paper but still go right over the heads of the people it is intended to serve. Having good information is meaningless if those who need it never see it. We urge Parliament and the electricity industry to put more energy into working with people who know their communities, and engaging with them to ensure that the people of those communities genuinely understand the issues and how they affect them and their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d227b1cf6f344f46bcae5d7c4e777835\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d227b1cf6f344f46bcae5d7c4e777835\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN (Minister of Pacific Island Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, talofa lava, and warm Pacific greetings. I rise to support this second reading of the Electricity (Disconnection and Low Fixed Charges) Amendment Bill. I rise with sadness, as I remember Folole Muliaga and the tragedy of her death, which should never have happened. We hope that something like that never happens again. The tragic circumstances surrounding Mrs Muliaga\u2019s death shocked our nation. I personally will never forget the sorrow of visiting her husband, her children, her extended family, and her community knowing that her death was so unnecessary. The way the Muliaga family dealt with losing their mother, wife, auntie, daughter, sister, and friend provided all New Zealanders with a glimpse of how the generosity of spirit and the humanity of the Pacific people can deal with a horrific event, leading to reconciliation and healing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EElectricity is an essential service. Following the Muliaga tragedy, the Electricity Commission began working with electricity retailers, Government departments, and our community organisations to develop guidelines understood by all dealing with disconnections. These strengthened guidelines require a sense of social responsibility from electricity retailers in protecting some of our most vulnerable whether it is for reasons of age, health, disability, financial difficulty, or, if I may add, culture and language. The guidelines make it clear that electricity providers must advise consumers having difficulty paying their bills of the avenues of assistance or help available to them from Government agencies and community service providers. Electricity retailers must take steps to identify vulnerable consumers and consult with the Ministry of Social Development before disconnecting. They must also identify and ensure that those reliant on electricity for medical equipment to maintain life are protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to enable regulation should compliance with the guidelines be unsatisfactory. This bill amends the Electricity Act 1992 to strengthen the regulation-making powers in relation to the disconnection of electricity and the low fixed-charge tariff options for domestic consumers. I strongly support the bill\u2019s amendments to improve the ability to regulate regarding disconnection. This provides electricity retailers with terms and conditions for billing and payment options, overdue accounts and disconnection processes, the supply of services, and a process for identifying consumers who would be at risk if their electricity was disconnected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EThe bill also amends the low fixed-charge tariff options for domestic consumers. Low fixed-charge regulations were introduced in 2004 to assist low-use electricity consumers and encourage greater energy efficiency. Currently, over half of the households in the north of Auckland are on the low fixed-charge tariff, as opposed to only 9 percent of households in and south of Christchurch. The amendment to increase the eligibility threshold from 8,000 kilowatts to 9,000 kilowatts for the low fixed-charge tariff will allow more households in Christchurch and the deep south, excluding Westland, to take advantage of the rate for low electricity as the higher threshold of 9,000 kilowatts is closer to the average consumption of those living in that beautiful but colder part of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EAs already stated, electricity retailers have been given the opportunity to follow the guidelines for electricity disconnections and this bill will allow for the guidelines to be implemented if they are not adhered to voluntarily. When announcing that the Electricity Commission was preparing guidelines, Prime Minister Helen Clark said it was very important that electricity retailers had a clear idea of the Government\u2019s and the public\u2019s expectations. At a community forum in south Auckland a few weeks ago, I was encouraged to hear from a budget adviser based in M\u0101ngere who used to have large numbers of people coming into his office because their power had been disconnected. He was pleased to report to the forum that this no longer happens. It should not have taken the death of Folole Muliaga for these changes to be implemented. However, I am happy and pleased that the electricity retailers have taken notice following this tragic event and have taken the opportunity to follow the voluntary guidelines. I am also advised that companies have made overdue bills, credit letters, and automated phone calls clearer. Written information has also been provided in a number of languages, including Samoan, Tongan, M\u0101ori, and Japanese. I am confident that the industry will continue to follow the guidelines and act in a socially responsible manner, with this bill providing the regulating power, if necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EIn my maiden speech I said I would pursue a permanent interest in advocating and promoting the interests of women, Pacific people, M\u0101ori, the elderly, ethnic minorities, and all New Zealanders who are struggling to live a life of dignity. At the time of Mrs Muliaga\u2019s death I assured the Pacific community that our Government was taking this issue very, very seriously. I am pleased to be part of a Government that is bringing this bill to the House, protecting our disadvantaged consumers, and ensuring the safety and well-being of all of our families in New Zealand. The Commerce Committee has cross-party support for this bill and I strongly commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u0022387d9e0fb67442dfbd52c44218a0323c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022387d9e0fb67442dfbd52c44218a0323c\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014Tamaki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the National Party to support the second reading of the Electricity (Disconnection and Low Fixed Charges) Amendment Bill. I compliment the Minister who spoke before me, Luamanuvao Winnie Laban, on the sensitivity of her remarks. I know that none of us who serve electorates in this country and who have a concern for the people we represent would like this to have happened to any of those people. I pay my respects to the Minister. However, I want to reflect for a moment on the comments on this bill from the New Zealand First member Ron Mark. His speech brought to the realisation of this House just how irrelevant that pathetic little rump of a party and its seriously diminished members have become. This is a highly serious matter. The only consolation I take from that is that the electorate itself will have figured that out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EYou know, when we look at this bill we see another attempt by the Government to regulate. That is what we have come to expect from that crowd over there. One has to come back\u2014[Interruption] Let us listen to the Labour members. The rest of us have meetings in caucus rooms; they meet in the commissariat room. That sort of thinking leads the Government to believe that if it regulates, regulates, and regulates, then it can control the lives of all New Zealanders. We must not lose sight of something the Prime Minister herself said. The Prime Minister\u2014now in the dying, gasping days of her administration\u2014made the point that Mercury Energy was in breach of the social responsibilities written into the existing law under which State-owned enterprises operate. The Prime Minister made that point. So we need to ask why we are rushing into enacting legislation. What is the rush? This legislation is rushed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the efforts of the National Party members of the Commerce Committee who considered this bill for their common sense and for the tidying-up that has occurred as a result of their work. This country is fortunate that in this House there is an Opposition that does its job properly, scrutinises proposed Government legislation with rigour, and makes sure that we bring back to this House the very best legislation that can come out of a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243af28f53cac4fb3a0804fe1784baee2\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: And then they normally vote against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022278a2389021e471bb8c25347acb89657\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well! We can hear the Government members over there; they are on their way out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI have to express some reservations about the bill. Is it really absolutely necessary to once again regulate, particularly in light of what the Prime Minister, who is now in her dying days as leader of the Government, shared about Mercury Energy? But we have this legislation before us, and we have to deal with it. The National Party is seeking to contribute positively and helpfully to the debate, unlike the New Zealand First member who spoke earlier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI do not think there is a New Zealander\u2014I certainly do not know of a New Zealander\u2014who would not want to protect people who require electricity for something like critical medical care. There would not be a person in New Zealand, I suspect, who would not want that to be done. There would not be a person in New Zealand who was not upset and concerned about what happened. But members should just remember that Governments can regulate as much as they like, but at the end of the day, when all the chickens are in, it is the conduct of individual people and the decisions they make that will determine outcomes. You see, one of the reasons why this country is losing its direction relates to the silly interjections that come from the Government side of the House. Government members do not understand that by regulation, making more rules, meeting in their commissariat room, and deciding what is best for the rest of us, they fail to figure it out. But we know\u2014this House knows\u2014that very shortly those members will be gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022 data-id=\u00222a7ad8c45e7e40a1a0d7349d32574860\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a7ad8c45e7e40a1a0d7349d32574860\u0022\u003EDAVE HEREORA (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. I take this opportunity to stand in support of the Electricity (Disconnection and Low Fixed Charges) Amendment Bill. I will start with a couple of comments particularly to the previous speaker, Allan Peachey, around his question of whether it is necessary to regulate. I honestly think that in the absence of, in this case, the electricity retailers observing a sense of social responsibility it is our responsibility to give serious consideration to regulation. My colleague Luamanuvao Winnie Laban spoke previously of the loss of the Muliaga family. None of us wanted to witness or experience that situation. But at the end of the day, we needed to ask ourselves the question of who was responsible\u2014who would take that responsibility. Is it the responsibility of the electricity retailers? Or is it indeed our responsibility, in our role as members of Parliament, to ensure that we have some protections in place, particularly for those families that are in need? So I think the answer to my friend\u2019s question is \u201CYes, it is necessary to regulate, particularly for that reason.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EI have also learnt when working in the community of M\u0101ngere, which now has Su\u2019a William Sio, of the difficulties surrounding some of the families in that community over this issue. I can assure them that we will continue to monitor and offer assistance wherever we can. But there is another scam\u2014well, I do not know whether it is a scam but there is another situation\u2014occurring within the industry. I refer to the meter-powered boxes in some of these houses. It is a \u201Cpay as you use\u201D card top-up system. I do not know whether members have heard of it. People roll up to the garages or retailers that have these boxes and top up their cards. It can be guaranteed that on benefit night there are queues of people trying to top up their cards. It is that group of people, the beneficiaries, who are using these cards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EI understand that the system has changed to being a top-up on the telephone. That is nice and easy. That is all very well; people do not have to queue up. But if they top up on the telephone then they have to pay an extra $5 levy, on top of what they are applying for, for their power. People can go on to the Internet, which costs nothing, but how many within that group of people have a computer? So there are ongoing issues within that industry that we need to be mindful of, to ensure that we are at least giving the right consideration in the right places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EI do think that this bill strengthens the regulation-making powers in the Act, and, as I said earlier, it responds to recent concerns about the disconnection practices of electricity retailers. It also ensures that we as the Government have the opportunity to regulate the content of the disconnection guidelines that have recently been developed. We heard from the Minister earlier that the voluntary aspect within the industry is working and working well, but there is a need for the Government to be associated with ensuring that we regulate the content of those guidelines if necessary. The bill also raises the threshold of lower fixed charges under the Act, from 8,000 kilowatts per year to 9,000 kilowatts per year for domestic consumers, particularly in Christchurch and south of that city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EI want to reflect on two parts of the bill. The first is the low fixed charges, where we are targeting around the regulations for the low fixed-charge tariff options for domestic consumers. The low fixed-charge regulations that were introduced had the purpose of assisting low-use domestic consumers and encouraging energy efficiency. Prior to their introduction, low-use consumers in many areas faced unreasonably high fixed daily charges for their limited or low electricity usage. The introduction of the regulations provided these low-use consumers with a tariff option that was more equitable for low-energy usage and more compatible with the Government\u2019s energy efficiency objectives. At present, these regulations require networks and retailers to make available a low fixed-charge tariff option to all domestic consumers that they service who have consumption at their primary dwelling of less than 8,000 kilowatts per annum. The same 8,000 kilowatt threshold is used across the entire country, despite the reality that in colder parts of the South Island average power use is higher in large part, because of the climate\u2014it is colder\u2014and there is little gas in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe second change in the bill that I want to refer to is the extension to the Minister\u2019s powers to grant exemptions from the application of the regulations to electricity distributors and retailers. We must have that opportunity to ensure that there is some monitoring and therefore disciplines applicable to those regulations. In particular, in some small isolated networks the cost of servicing consumers can be far higher than is normal for grid-connected networks, particularly in circumstances where the compliance requirements and business costs of administering the low fixed-charge tariff can be excessive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003ESo those are the two aspects of the bill that I wanted to raise, but in particular I wanted to reiterate the moral argument surrounding the purpose of this bill, particularly in relation to the question raised by the previous speaker. Yes, I do think it is absolutely necessary, particularly with regard to an industry that had lost its way in terms of the problem at hand. So bearing in mind that the changes in the bill will require electricity retailers to observe a sense of social responsibility in respect of those in financial difficulty, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022701a123ef0394a309e60245473dadadd\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222dbf7d4d8de843c5924c765e8797c05e\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc65491525c344d2abff8479fee80093\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc65491525c344d2abff8479fee80093\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the New Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Bill be now read a second time. It is with pleasure that I move the second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill repeals and replaces the New Zealand Geographic Board Act 1946. After 60 years of good service, the Act needs to be modernised. This bill being read again in the House today is the result of a comprehensive review that has taken place, and of consultation processes that have involved the public, iwi, central and local government, and sectoral groups. I know that the official naming of geographic places and features is taken very seriously by communities. From my role in some of the place names that the New Zealand Geographic Board deals with, I know the strength of feeling that names can generate. We identify with the names of mountains, rivers, settlements, and localities, because they reflect our culture and heritage as New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EKnowing the correct names for places and their location is also important for businesses in their transactions. It is important to enable emergency services to respond quickly to incidents, and it is important for New Zealanders generally in all manner of everyday communications and activities. This bill provides for the continuation of the board and its work in a modern context, and it provides for public input. New Zealanders want a say over their place names and place naming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAnother piece of the modern context is that New Zealand extends beyond the land we see on everyday maps. Our legal continental shelf is 24 times the size of New Zealand\u2019s land area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e77f8f13847e47a4a4b44c0fb81299c2\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: So what? What are you going to call it\u2014the continental shelf?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277a298c031494db896432171a399bb1a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: We hear \u201CSo what?\u201D from the former Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade diplomat. Well, the \u201Cso what\u201D is that the continental shelf, which is 24 times the size of New Zealand\u2019s land area, is of high strategic importance, and it is the subject of increasing research and exploration activity. It is important that New Zealand exercise its sovereign rights in respect of it. That is the \u201Cso what\u201D\u2014it is important that New Zealand exercise its sovereign rights in respect of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill extends the Geographic Board\u2019s jurisdiction to include the naming of features on the continental shelf, because currently the board does not have that power. The member should read the bill and understand what it is about before he spouts off, dismissing it as irrelevant. It is important that New Zealand exercise naming rights as part of our sovereign rights in respect of the continental shelf. Place naming plays a part in New Zealand\u2019s effective management of the undersea resources within that area. The exercising of naming rights in these areas is another demonstration of our sovereign rights to them, and it further secures our rights to those valuable parts of New Zealand for the future. So I would suggest to members of the National Party that they not make light of the issue but actually understand it, and that they support the extension of the legislation to include naming rights in respect of our part of the continental shelf. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill refines public consultation processes for proposed names by enabling any person or organisation to submit a proposal. It has more flexible arrangements for public input, which should be welcomed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259d70527c31844efb58c5256401d0572\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s wrong with the current legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251bad0389020417790c22e8d60bfd5eb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The current legislation, which is over 60 years old, includes only land and not the continental shelf. I have said that three or four times now. If the member has not picked it up, I suggest he read the bill or talk to one of his colleagues who can explain that simple principle to him. It has obviously gone over his head the three times I have explained it so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill requires Land Information New Zealand to provide public access to a record of official geographic names by publishing and maintaining an online gazetteer of official names. Again, this is what happens when we update legislation. There has been a change in technology in that we have the Internet now. We can provide this information via the Internet in a way that is convenient to people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230e4ae81b2d2468492e7e46538a76497\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: So?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022758d27777fd44ed091701d96da99579c\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: So what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279e59c6effe74138a9c6636acab1d3f7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The members opposite seem to think that is unnecessary bureaucracy. I happen to think it is a way we can save costs for the New Zealand taxpayer and make information more readily available for the benefit of New Zealanders. This record will contain location and historic information for these names. An easily accessible online gazetteer is needed for both official and public purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill gives the board a concurrent role in determining names for protected areas managed by the Department of Conservation. The bill does this formally by involving the board in the naming processes for Department of Conservation land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EUnder the bill, the addition of two new positions on the board ensures it better represents a wide range of constituents, and fulfils additional responsibility. One new position is an ex officio position for the official who has primary responsibility for hydrographic standards in New Zealand. That is an important step, given the vast area of ocean that New Zealand has jurisdiction over. This new member is required because of the significant extension of the board\u2019s functions to include the naming of undersea features on the continental shelf. The other new board member is from local government and is nominated by Local Government New Zealand. This is because the bill proposes to devolve responsibility for official suburb and locality naming to local authorities. At the same time, it is necessary to ensure that that naming is consistent with the need for standardised but not duplicated address information across the country. So rather than our making more centralised bureaucracy, this measure is an example of our devolving some of these rights to local government, and it agrees that that is a sensible course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for more transparent board accountability. Accountability provisions relating to the Geographic Board are improved under the bill by a requirement for the board to submit an annual report to the Minister on its performance. The board will also be subject to the Ombudsmen Act 1975. The board is already subject to the Official Information Act 1982, and that will continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI thank the Government Administration Committee for its work in examining the bill and considering the public submissions. It discussed various amendments to the bill but was unable to reach agreement, so the bill is being reported back to Parliament unchanged. As a result of this, I now wish to introduce a Supplementary Order Paper to make relatively minor changes to the bill. The proposals in the Supplementary Order Paper include an amendment to the bill\u2019s commencement date from 1 July 2008 to a date to be appointed by the Governor-General by Order in Council. The Supplementary Order Paper also includes amendments to various Antarctic-related provisions in clause 8 of the bill, to allow the board to assign Antarctic geographic names outside the Ross Dependency in consultation with other relevant place-naming authorities. In addition, a new definition and several corrections are proposed to specify the scope of the jurisdiction of the board in terms of the Antarctica Act 1960, and to specify a definition of \u201CAntarctica\u201D in clause 4. Proposals are also included to clarify in clause 25 the scope of the consultation required about features outside of the territorial limits of New Zealand, and to clarify that the board must appoint the chair of any committee that is established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe proposal to amend the bill\u2019s commencement date is to ensure proper coordination and timing around the implementation of the new function. The proposal to amend various Antarctic-related provisions of the bill will allow the board to assign Antarctic geographic names outside the Ross Dependency\u2014New Zealand\u2019s Antarctic territory. Land Information New Zealand is working on mapping areas outside the Ross Dependency. These areas are of scientific interest to New Zealand. Any naming of features in areas outside New Zealand territory will be undertaken only in consultation with the place-naming authorities of other countries that have an interest in the area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI commend the New Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Bill, and the associated Supplementary Order Paper, to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u00228e33096109544a36a0738cfa71cc5448\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e33096109544a36a0738cfa71cc5448\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki-King Country):\u003C/span\u003E I respect your sound judgment in giving me the call, Mr Assistant Speaker. I acknowledge some of the work that the Minister of Land Information, David Parker, spoke of that went on in the Government Administration Committee. I think that to some extent his Supplementary Order Paper covers some of the issues that were described in the submission process and also by the officials in discussion. But having said that, I point out that the National members could not come to the conclusion that this legislation was of benefit to New Zealand. Therefore, I rise in opposition to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI shall outline to the House a number of reasons why the National members on the select committee came to that conclusion. Probably the most important one was concern about the impact that clauses 32 and 33 may have on private entities\u2014that is, the changing of the terminology around an official document and an official place name. For example, any tourism operators who may be using a place name as part of their promotional material could find themselves in a completely compromised position and potentially unable to continue that commercial activity. We saw that as not only a risk to one of our largest industries but also an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy when it came to amending the New Zealand Geographic Board Act 1946. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe Act itself has worked absolutely fine for all of that time\u201462 years, I say to the Hon David Parker\u2014and no evidence to the contrary was brought to the Government Administration Committee. There seemed to be no real urgency to this amendment. The overall approach taken by the select committee was to look at how the bill will enhance the grand scheme of things going forward in terms of place names. I gave the example of the coast of Taranaki, where one can start in South Taranaki at Manaia or H\u0101wera, then go along the road to \u014Ceo, P\u012Bhama, \u014Cpunake, R\u0101hotu, W\u0101rea, \u014Ckato, and \u014C\u0101kura. Every single one of those names is a M\u0101ori name. We used to have a mountain called Mount Egmont because Captain Cook had sailed past and said it looked like Egmont. There was enough local concern about that for the mountain now to be officially known as Mount Taranaki, which, of course, it was traditionally known as by the local Taranaki iwi. Based on all of the evidence presented to us, there was no conclusion that the 1946 Act would benefit from these moves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI think that the Minister does make a point in regard to the continental shelf, and given that the Minister has the numbers for this bill to pass, that issue could be a potential advantage. I wonder why the rest of the provisions had to be included in the bill at the same time. In fact, if that were the purpose of the bill, then cluttering it up with the other areas of concern was, in our view, unnecessary and outweighed any advantage that may come from the proposal the Minister outlined earlier on. That is equally so with the Ross Dependency and Antarctic naming rights, which New Zealand has always enjoyed. I understand that those types of decisions are made by consensus through an international forum, and that has been happening. New Zealand has had the ability to influence those decisions up till now. There is no issue in regard to New Zealand being overruled or not having a fair say in those issues. So even in that regard, where there may have been some select committee sympathy for the amendments, there was nothing to suggest to us that the amendments are necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI am sure there are other speakers who want to elaborate on some of the comments I have made. The National Party found that it could not support the passage of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7754d93d3f34ab680c22e8cd4e9414b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7754d93d3f34ab680c22e8cd4e9414b\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, kia ora t\u0101tou. I did not want to interrupt the member Mr Ardern in the delivery of his speech, but I am wondering whether members, when they are debating this particular bill, could attempt to take a little bit of care in respect of their pronunciation of M\u0101ori names. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EOnce upon a time, about a year ago, I brought this matter to the attention of another member, not out of disrespect but to make the point that as we debate place names, and M\u0101ori place names at that, members might like to think about proper pronunciation. I am available, sitting right here, for any members who want to take any lessons before they deliver their speech, to help them out. Louisa Wall and Dr Pita Sharples are here, as well. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022 data-id=\u002297d6bfc7e0d1440ebaf8a17c65e81823\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297d6bfc7e0d1440ebaf8a17c65e81823\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for raising that point. I am sure that members will ponder on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00229b08adad73474a4088759992010df5c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b08adad73474a4088759992010df5c2\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thank our M\u0101ori Party colleague Te Ururoa Flavell for those comments. They fill me with great confidence as I take a call in the second reading debate on the New Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Bill. Despite this bill seeming on the surface to be fairly simple, I found it extremely interesting. Particularly interesting was the history of legislative provisions for place naming in New Zealand. These provisions were initially administered under the auspices of the Royal Geographical Society in London until the Designation of Districts Act in 1894 gave the Governor of New Zealand authority to alter or assign place names in the colony.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7ec04e193a740a9bedfe8c73c4696df\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: I can read that too. It\u2019s in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e78ac269c7c44bfb979c5bb46c57618e\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: I will get there, if the member would be patient. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons for a place names authority was to avoid confusion in the naming of post offices, railway stations, and so on. In 1924 the Minister of Lands approved the formation of a board to adjudicate on questions generally concerning place and feature names in New Zealand. The first board was known as the Honorary Geographic Board of New Zealand. However, this board lacked the legislative power to enforce its decisions and acted only in an advisory capacity until the New Zealand Geographic Board Act was passed in 1946 and the present New Zealand Geographic Board was established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIn 1959 a United Nations resolution paved the way for the establishment of the United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names, in recognition that: \u201CConsistent use of accurate place names is an essential element of effective communication worldwide and supports socio-economic development, conservation and national infrastructure.\u201D New Zealand has supported the principles underlying the UN group\u2019s programme, with, for example, the move towards dual M\u0101ori-English place names in some circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs the Minister has said, this bill came about after a comprehensive review and public consultation process involving the public, iwi, central and local government, and sector groups. It is part of Labour\u2019s plan for the future, and it will help keep and preserve our unique national identity in the future. It provides a sound framework for New Zealand\u2019s official geographical naming in the 21st century, and it will also help ensure that place naming reflects who we are as a nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe bill repeals and replaces the New Zealand Geographic Board Act 1946, as other speakers have said. It modernises the official naming process of New Zealand\u2019s geographic features. The bill also extends the jurisdiction of the board to the naming of undersea features on New Zealand\u2019s continental shelf, and it revises procedures for public participation in the place naming process. Finally, it aligns the provisions of the Act more clearly with the Treaty of Waitangi, and it updates administrative provisions including the composition of the board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EDuring the first reading debate, National members indicated their support for the bill, but they went to great lengths to disparage it as a lightweight bill that could have been dealt with more effectively in a Statutes Amendment Bill. Jacqui Dean said she wondered about the time spent debating a bill of such lightness. She said she regretted that she could not give a weighty speech on such a lightweight bill. Mark Blumsky said he did not think the bill warranted the status of being a bill in its own right, although he did warn about the consultation procedures being passed on to local government, and he expressed concern about the implications of extensive consultation. Lindsay Tisch said this bill was not important enough to take up the House\u2019s time and that it could be covered in a Statutes Amendment Bill. Nick Smith called the changes in the bill very minor, tinkering changes and said the House should not be wasting its time on such minor bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIf the bill is so minor, tinkering, and such a waste of time, why, then, is National not supporting it tonight? I can agree that the bill is small and not overly significant in the scheme of things. It should have been very easy to get through the select committee process. But even simple bills like this one seem too complex for some members of the National Party, particularly those on the Government Administration Committee. If we are talking about wasting time, I have to say that the select committee wasted a huge amount of time while one of the National members tried to show her scholarly skills by arguing with officials, making mountains out of molehills, and seeing phantom traps in every clause of the bill. Can members guess who I am talking about? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe changes that Labour will propose by way of Supplementary Order Paper are sensible and reasonable. The objections that National members are raising are not. Let us take the first one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227189a6a2560d43849c59dd6aede7ee5a\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Why are they being done by Supplementary Order Paper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b30e08e3efa4e909cf4f01e67f3fc89\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t that member, was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a1db02cf2c843ddaca144d690978537\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: I could not possibly answer that question. I will leave members to guess that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ENational objects to the fact that clause 24 gives a new discretion on whether to consult the public before a place name is changed. The National Party minority report on the bill states: \u201CNational members believe it is a fundamental right for all New Zealanders to be involved in this decision-making process\u201D. Well, that is not what National members said during the first reading debate. Lindsay Tisch, as I have already said, warned about the compliance costs of consultation. Jacqui Dean asked where the consultation would end, and where the cost would end, in the simple naming of a place. Actually, the bill does not hinder public consultation. It does nothing of the sort. It gets rid of bureaucracy by allowing the board to make changes quickly on non-controversial proposals, such as when everyone agrees. [Interruption] I would have thought National members would be keen on getting rid of bureaucracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EClause 24, which National objects to, applies only to recorded names and discontinued official geographic names, not to new name proposals or the alteration of a name. Despite the legal advice that the committee received that that discretion is judicially reviewable, National members persisted in their bizarre objection to clause 24. I see this as typical slippery National under John Key\u2019s leadership. In their first attack on this bill National members claimed it is too bureaucratic. In the second attack they claimed it is not bureaucratic enough. Well, which is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287cf95dfd52e44779f4a89af0a5d5385\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: Very slippery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a5e006744a8433892613e0f1e42a406\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is slippery, of course, and we cannot expect any clear answers from National under John Key\u2019s leadership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ENational members also derided the board in the first reading debate, despite the information available to them that although the board may meet only for two 1-day meetings a year plus teleconferences and other tasks, this very productive board makes an average of 100 decisions per meeting on New Zealand names and 60 on Antarctic geographic names. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Geographic Board is an important institution. It is through this board that any name changes need to be applied for. For example, recent proposals to rename land features after Sir Edmund Hillary will need to go to this board. I note that John Key, the leader of the National Party, was very quick to jump on to that idea. It is important, of course, to wait for a respectful period after the death of that great man, and the right feature needs to be found before the board pursues these proposals. However, I am advised that the board has already approved two names in Antarctica: the Hillary Coast and the undersea Hillary Canyon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ENames of places we know and identify with, such as mountains and rivers, as well as settlements and localities, reflect in a very real way our culture and shared heritage as New Zealanders. So although National has decided to treat this bill with disdain, the Labour-led Government knows that the official naming of geographic features is important to communities and needs to be taken very seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI take this opportunity to thank the officials for their patient advice. Boy, did they need to be patient in that select committee! I also thank the other parties that see that this bill is sensible and very necessary. I am very, very pleased to support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u002294eaca4e2d56447c8f6305645a1feaa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294eaca4e2d56447c8f6305645a1feaa9\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I think it is appropriate that I follow the previous speaker so that I can outline some of the process issues around introducing bills into Parliament. A party will go through the first part of whether it will support a bill going to a select committee for the simple reason that it needs to scrutinise the bill, in the first instance, to see exactly why there was a bill in the first place\u2014what is the problem to be fixed\u2014and, in the second place, to find out any other untoward features of the legislation proposed so that it can determine whether it wants to support it going any further than the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EClearly, this New Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Bill seemed innocuous at first glance, but on closer inspection, as it came under the scrutiny of the Government Administration Committee, it was quite clear that it was not as open and transparent as it could have been. National has major concerns with the two key parts to this bill, and our concerns have been totally ignored. In the first instance there is no real definition of a problem. There is nothing wrong with the previous Act; no problems have been identified. That is the first point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe second point is that there is a new provision in the bill that gives the New Zealand Geographic Board the discretion about whether to publicly notify name changes. That discretion is quite extensive, and National feels that that is wrong, particularly when even the Minister has said that place names are important to people. Whether it is Diggers Gulch, Mount Taranaki, or whatever, place names are important to people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI give the example of Simpsons Beach in my neck of the woods, where a group of people came in and said they wanted to call it Wharekaho. Well, there was a huge bunfight over that. It is now called Wharekaho and underneath, in brackets, is Simpsons Beach. What does everybody still call it? They call it Simpsons Beach. If there are to be name changes, even if they are dual names or whatever, and there is no opportunity for public consultation, then that just embeds antipathy in a community where people with opposing points of view argue ad infinitum about a place name, and nothing is settled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThis bill, which I am very proud to say National is opposing, has a provision that allows the board not to consult the public on a range of matters, if the board so deems. Those matters are the alteration of a name of a district or region, the assignment of names to geographic features outside territorial limits, the adoption of existing names for undersea features, the process for review, and the validation of certain names. National has concerns about those sorts of issues. The board now has the discretion not to notify the public or to go through a public consultation process. National is not happy about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EAnother issue relates to clause 32, \u201COfficial geographic names must be used\u201D, which my most excellent colleague Shane Ardern referred to earlier. The official geographic name for a geographic feature or area, if one exists, must be used in all official documents. One description in the definition of \u201Cofficial document\u201D is a publication intended for travellers or tourists. That clearly affects every single tourism operation in the country, because generally they include place names in all their brochures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe tourism industry is based on offering opportunities for tourists to see our places and spaces. Place names are a big part of that, and if there is an official geographic name, then tourism operators must use it in all their documents. They cannot use a colloquial name like Simpsons Beach; they have to use Wharekaho. But if they already have Simpsons Beach on all their paperwork, then they have to state that Simpsons Beach is not the official geographic name. If they want to retain the colloquial name of Simpsons Beach on their paperwork, then they have to change all their brochures to state that it is not the official geographic name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI do not think that anybody gave any thought to the cost involved for all the tourism ventures up and down this country. They either have to state the official geographic name or a make a statement saying that it is not the official geographic name. I have never heard of anything more stupid and ignorant. It ignores the effect on, and cost to, all the tourism venture operations throughout this country. I really do not see how this issue was conveyed to the tourism sector. National opposes this bill for those two very fundamental reasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab56201e13b84beda714de0967a25ef1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab56201e13b84beda714de0967a25ef1\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E It was with some interest that I sat and listened to the dull, dour, head-down monotones of Labour Ministers David Parker and Damien O\u2019Connor earlier in the evening. It is quite clear to me that they are in a tunnel of despair and depression, and they can see a light quite some distance away. What they do not realise is that it is a large locomotive with a big blue sign with a big \u201CN\u201D on the front, and it says \u201CNational\u201D. It is racing through that tunnel and, within a matter of months, it will hit them and move them from those Treasury benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThis bill is one of the reasons why we will remove them from the Treasury benches. This bill is absolutely unnecessary. It simply adds to bureaucracy, red tape, complication, and cost. Sure, the New Zealand Geographic Board Act has been in place since 1946, but it has stood the test of time. No reason has been given so far this evening as to why the Act is unnecessary or unsatisfactory. Clearly, there is a board that is associated with naming these places and it has met eight times in the past 3 years. That is hardly a huge workload. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EIf there is nothing wrong with the current Act and the way it is operating, then what are the compelling reasons why this bill needs to be passed? It is just another example of time-wasting, bad government by Labour. This is bad legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EClause 24 gives the board discretion on whether to consult the public before a place name is changed. It was interesting to listen to the speech made by Darien Fenton who said, on the one hand, that she had noticed that John Key wanted to involve Sir Edmund Hillary\u2019s name in some places and said \u201Cbut we must wait a discreet distance for that to happen\u201D, but, on the other hand, she started talking about the \u201CHillary Shelf\u201D and other features in the Antarctic. Where was the process of public consultation with the community? This Government is about cutting the community out of government in any sense or form. We see that in the Electoral Finance Act and in this bill. I think we need a strong Opposition to stand up against this and to vote against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EAnother reason that I think the bill is very bad legislation is that we are duplicating effort. Fewer than 18 months ago in this House we passed the Geographical Indications (Wine and Spirits) Registration Act. We set up a new bureaucracy to meet, discuss, and decide on areas that will be provided with names for wine and spirit regions. Why is this bill necessary, when duplicate legislation has set up a completely different place-name arrangement and bureaucracy to deal with only wines and spirits? The fact is that if we had a Government that was on the boil, if we had a Government that had a coherent legislative programme, these areas of naming would have been amalgamated into one simple authority. That is a fair enough change to the 1946 legislation, but this bill is totally unnecessary and it represents totally inefficient, bad government. It is simply creating more bureaucracy and giving jobs to the boys. Mr Barnett shakes his head, but he will have seen it in the list of bills, and his party forgot about it. His party has forgotten about it and has prepared new and unnecessary legislation. Labour could have easily amalgamated these two bills into the one measure and had one cohesive agency in this country dealing with all place names. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EClauses 32 and 33 will potentially have a significant, negative impact on commercial tourism ventures that rely on colloquial themes or place names. We are talking about Simpsons Beach, or Wharekaho, up in Thames. Well, I can say there is a Wharekauhau in the Wairarapa. It is a significant part of the Wairarapa\u2019s growth industry and it is a luxury lodge. The clauses require the use of official names for geographic features, and, if people fail to comply with the legislation, it could result in a court action by the board. Many tourist attractions hold their appeal because of their name and it is commercially unattractive or impractical to start suddenly using only the official name. I think this is simply an unnecessary bureaucratic cost being imposed on a tourist industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EOverall, the bill takes an impractical approach towards private entities. More consultation is needed to address the commercial viability of a number of clauses in the bill and to ensure that a more practical approach is adopted. This is why I come back to the point I was making earlier: if we had a cohesive, coherent, strong, well-thought-out legislative programme, we would have amalgamated the changes that are being proposed in this legislation with the Geographical Indications (Wine and Spirits) Registration Act. The fact is there was nothing wrong with the legislation that has served this country for 62 years. Nobody has identified one problem with it. It seems to me this legislation is totally unnecessary and I will be joining my colleagues in the National Party to vote against it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00220ebf99ef7f294df482c75ba6b1bf1241\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ebf99ef7f294df482c75ba6b1bf1241\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou e te Whare. On 13 September 2007, 143 countries of the world united in an inspirational act of solidarity\u2014they signed up to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples as a standard of achievement to be pursued in the spirit of kotahitanga or partnership and mutual respect. One of those standards, article 13 of that declaration, gives us an important global perspective from which to understand this new bill, the New Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Bill. Article 13 states: \u201CIndigenous peoples have the right to revitalize, use, develop and transmit to future generations their histories, languages, oral traditions, philosophies, writing systems, and literatures, and to designate and retain their own names for communities, places and persons. States shall take effective measures to ensure that this right is protected.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis bill, then, in repealing and replacing the New Zealand Geographic Board Act 1946, is the ideal opportunity to enable a systematic and standardised approach to the official naming of geographic features with particular respect to indigenous place names. The resurgence and revitalisation of te reo rangatira, te reo M\u0101ori, including original place names, is arguably one of the most significant features of the M\u0101ori renaissance in Aotearoa. The M\u0101ori Party is pleased that this bill is consistent with the aspirations of M\u0101ori as recognised through the provision of clause 6, which is inserted to recognise and respect the Crown\u2019s responsibility to take appropriate account of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFar from being symbolic, Treaty justice will be seen through three specific provisions. They are, first, to collect original M\u0101ori names for recording on official charts and official maps; second, to encourage the use of original M\u0101ori names on official charts and maps; and third, to seek advice from Te Taura Whiri i te Reo M\u0101ori on the correct orthography\u2014that is, the spelling and macrons\u2014of any M\u0101ori name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs well as these specific functions, schedule 1 of this bill has been extended with an additional two persons to be appointed to the board on the recommendation of the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs. The M\u0101ori Party is very pleased to see such provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe designated responsibilities outlined in the new functions of the board give clear emphasis to the kaupapa of mana tupuna\u2014whakapapa\u2014that connection that links us to our ancestors and to our heritage. And importantly, the recognition of the importance of mana whenua representation on the board demonstrates the significance that has been placed on the kaupapa of kotahitanga\u2014moving together as one in pursuit of nationhood. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EJust how vital this issue of respect for M\u0101ori geographical names is, has been powerfully demonstrated in recent weeks by the unfortunate marketing gimmick that caused enormous offence through the association of M\u0101ori place names with an English term of abuse. The gimmick, members may recall, involved a gross obscenity being placed alongside three place names, namely Whakamaru, Whakat\u0101ne, and Whakamoa. Although the dignity of this House requires that I avoid identifying the exact profanity used, the word\u2019s literal meaning takes its source in a highly offensive term denoting that the subject engages in sexual intercourse with his or her mother. It was a classic play on words. Yet, in linking three indigenous place names with one of the most offensive profanities in the English language, it is difficult to think where anyone in the world would find some sort of humour in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn fact, a study published in 2002 found that British people considered this term of abuse second in severity only to a term identifying a female\u2019s anatomy. I repeat that British people found this term of abuse distasteful. What was even more horrifying was that this gimmick, which the M\u0101ori Language Commission described as demeaning M\u0101ori people, the M\u0101ori language, and indeed, the reputation of our nation, was treated as light-hearted and funny by a political party that supposedly takes some interest in family policies. The comments from Mr Peter Dunne stating: \u201COnly when we can laugh together will we be able to move on.\u201D strike me as simply distasteful when thinking about the issue of incest, as indeed a letter to the Whakatane Beacon pointed out. The letter to the editor from \u201CNg\u0101ti Awa female of Whakat\u0101ne\u201D concluded: \u201CGentlemen, some jokes depending on their use and context applied are simply over the top, therefore deeming them to be offensive\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI have gone into quite some detail about this issue as I am hoping that the point will be taken that the placement of obscene profanities alongside M\u0101ori geographical names could not have been more offensive than in this instance. Dunedin, Dunsandel, Dunstan, \u201CDunn-e\u201D? Is that still funny? No, not really. Due respect for the whakapapa denoted in the place name, as well as for the revitalisation and status of te reo M\u0101ori, will, however, be greatly assisted through the provisions of this bill we are debating tonight, and perhaps may see us avoiding being in such a situation again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere are, however, three points of particular interest to us in the M\u0101ori Party that we will be interested in monitoring in the subsequent stages before the House. The first is that pertaining to the proposal to devolve the official naming of suburbs to territorial authorities, and the official naming of protected areas to the Department of Conservation. Although we understand the rationale behind supporting the move towards the autonomy of the local authorities to best know their own communities, we are, of course, worried by the precedent set by the Wanganui District Council 2 years ago in overthrowing the correct name of the area as recommended by iwi\u2014that is, Whanganui with an \u201Ch\u201D\u2014for a made-up word. This was an issue I conveyed in depth in my k\u014Drero, my speech, at the first reading but, suffice to say, it is a real worry for most tangata whenua to see how the regime of \u201Cmajority rule\u201D is used against M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe in the M\u0101ori Party believe that although there must be sufficient consultation with territorial authorities to ensure their advice about naming decisions is taken to heart, there must also be the meaningful consultation with M\u0101ori, free of political or commercial influence at the local level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe second major issue we will be watching out for is the proposal to align place name changes in future Treaty settlement processes more closely with the board\u2019s standard consultation procedures. This again raises some difficulties for us. It would be our view that claimants need to negotiate directly with the Crown as Treaty partner, and final settlement decisions, including place names, need to be made by those parties, otherwise the process could be compromised and seen as less durable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFinally, the issue that we note the National Party has indicated particular concern around is the new discretionary element set out in clause 24, detailing whether the public should be consulted before a place name is changed. It would appear from analysis of submissions that most groups considered that the existing consultation processes are generally working well. We did note, of course, that there was a strong preference for the board to undertake direct consultation with iwi rather than use the present arrangements of a proxy consultation process with Te Puni K\u014Dkiri. The support for a more robust and culturally appropriate consultation process was strongly supported, as I understand it, where a place name proposal occurs in the rohe of the iwi concerned. Submissions also identified the need for an adequate level of funding to ensure appropriate consultation takes place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere was also some advice from some local government submissions that the consultation principles in the Local Government Act of 2002 could be used as a guide for board consultation processes. As we well know in this House, the M\u0101ori Party has always taken a keen interest in the adequacy of consultation processes initiated by the Crown. For the purposes of this bill, we are keen to ensure that the maintenance and protection of culturally appropriate place names remain a priority across all levels of local and central government. We have borne witness to the cultural offence taken by mana whenua when tupuna names are misappropriated, misspelt, and mispronounced, or are shortened, for the benefit of the English-speaking population. Every iwi has experiences of names that have been treated with such contempt over generations. In some areas, such as was the case in the correcting of the spelling of Mount Parihaka in Whangarei, the mana has been able to be restored through respectful and meaningful consultation. We have a particular and enduring interest in ensuring that geographic place names are respected and protected, and we will continue to support this bill on that basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022 data-id=\u002229cb5b778be9475ca69317ab4750bd50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229cb5b778be9475ca69317ab4750bd50\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E I want to talk about the New Zealand Geographic Board Act of 1946, which this new bill will replace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226efe408d225a457b8042f590f27e7d40\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: You can remember when it was passed, George?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e47182ab6f64ab8aec37b93c250d409\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, I was born in 1946, and as people here will know, the Labour Party is going through a renewal process. As I was born in 1946, people have suggested that perhaps it is time for renewal for me. But of course it is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EI am pleased to be able to speak about this bill, because I think it underlines a change in New Zealand culture. When I went to school as a 5-year-old, the national anthem was \u201CGod Save the Queen\u201D, and we all sang that heartily as 5-year-olds. When I was a teacher, we were singing \u201CGod Defend New Zealand\u201D in English. Now kids very proudly sing our national anthem in M\u0101ori. So things change. For Sandra Goudie to talk about a beach changing its name as causing serious harm to the industry of tourism is a nonsense. We have to change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EI am in an electorate where I have a large M\u0101ori population. Most of them vote for me, even though Pita Sharples wishes they would vote for him. Of course, we have to respect the indigenous people of New Zealand. It is interesting. I went down to Egmont in January for a holiday. In days gone by I would have said I went to Mount Egmont. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226589537cd7f44c79aa4a3d86dd99ea73\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: You would, but now it\u2019s Taranaki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b56c0d8884343769c53a3f0919986f2\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: But now it is Taranaki, and New Zealanders accept the change. Everyone welcomes it, of course, apart from the members of the National Party. Those members have their heads in the sand, and when their heads are in the sand, they deserve a kick in the rear end. They have to change. It is all right being conservative; it is all right grabbing hold of those things that are of value to New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2ca9b57ae4546f2967fe1143c5aa9c3\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: What about Mount Cook?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb32250d2c3641409632efcae2ed6a53\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: We are all proud of the name change to Aorangi / Mount Cook. We have accepted the change. I did not know where Aorangi was when I was at school. I learnt about Mount Cook, and I think it was 12,349 feet, or something like that\u2014I probably have that wrong. Those were the things we learnt about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EThis bill went to the Government Administration Committee. It is not often that a select committee cannot agree; committee members work together to try to get agreement. I think Shane Ardern is a good chairman, but it is a pity that the select committee did not come together more on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EYou see, it is very important that we look to see how things are changing. We have to change. We have identified the names of our mountains and our rivers, and for most of the time people do not worry about it. In respect of the Waikato River, everyone talks about the Waikato, and it does not worry people because it is not an issue. However, when people like Sandra Goudie get up in this House and say that changing the name of a beach will cause all sorts of problems\u2014you know, it will cause the tourism industry great concern\u2014I say that is a load of rubbish. But what do we expect from Sandra Goudie but a load of rubbish? And we got it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EIt is interesting. We had some Japanese visitors at home the week before last, and we were having a look at the map of New Zealand. It is really good to see so many changes from the old maps of the 1970s compared with the latest maps. We do change. People have talked about the changes in names to recognise the life of Sir Edmund Hillary, and people accept that changes will come for one reason or another. It is important that we also have jurisdiction over naming features on the continental shelf. This is very, very important; if we want effective management of undersea resources in that area, then we should be looking more seriously at it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EWhen I was mayor of Papakura, one of the great debates we always had was on the names of new streets. People used to get very passionate about the names of new streets. Well, in Auckland there are new suburbs practically every month, and the naming of them is important. It is great to see so many people lobbying over naming rights. They want to name a street after their great-grandfather, their grandmother, or someone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276ef0dd9ce1244c399cf34b4b4e5d3e1\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s Hawkins Boulevard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497564a4c1c8492287c4ce327ed9f3d5\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: They never named a street after me, unfortunately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b15f4a13f1e347c780b39f856a86692e\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: I mean a whole suburb\u2014Hawkinsville!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227b6e02b6cee47ff899e2aafcd8021d1\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: There should be a Hawkinsville\u2014yes, that is right. Street naming is something that people are keenly interested in, and it is important that we show people that we recognise the indigenous people of New Zealand more and more in this country. For many years we just went along naming things after European settlers\u2014for example, Dannevirke. Dannevirke is in Hawke\u2019s Bay, I think. Of course we have other places named after early settlers, and some of that is good, because it is right that we understand our history. It is right that we understand our origins, but it is also right that we recognise indigenous names, as well. Sometimes, a dual name is quite appropriate and at other times we go a bit further. But having listened to the speakers on the other side, I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2d9b55f08647ceb14cd766113b1355\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: What about passing Martians? Do they get a say, or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287b49a89a7fe4a58a6bf3e3d6b8530d6\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Talking about margins, I remember John Hayes. I was going to talk about him, because he is in a marginal seat. They will not be naming his seat after him once he goes later this year. We do have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022417601404c754c22a1811974b4a805c4\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: Dream on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7caadd33f474913966117e4df5c5fd0\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Dream on? I daresay that John Hayes never dreamt he would be here, and he will probably get his wish later this year, when he goes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EWith this bill we had a situation where people could not agree in a select committee, and where people just could not come together to talk this through. Any legislation that is as old as I am has been around a long time, and when we have been around a long time, we get a bit of knowledge. I am very willingly going to support the second reading of this bill, and I am pleased to see that my colleagues from the M\u0101ori Party will support it, as well. I think it is important that Oppositions act as Oppositions, but that they do not always carry on in the way they are acting, in a very narrow manner, over this particular legislation. In a few years\u2019 time this will not be an issue, at all. People will have accepted it. They will have moved on, and this bill will be legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d5bf4b79ad64b10ba45a2a14ab7032a\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: You commenced your speech talking about renewal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de379fc245d0495cba7b3f978e001b08\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: There we have the member for Napier\u2014the temporary member for Napier\u2014who is sounding off. I ask whether the member knows the M\u0101ori name for Napier. No, he does not know the M\u0101ori name for Napier. He has not thought about it. I do not know what it is, but if I lived there, I would most certainly find out. But that member has not. He has not bothered to learn what Napier\u2019s M\u0101ori name is\u2014what the indigenous people called it originally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie has just walked back into the Chamber. I hope that she will be able to find her beach and spend her time lying in the sun, thinking about what it was like in Parliament when she was there, because she will be going at the end of this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u002264534ad72224434cb41426535196161b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264534ad72224434cb41426535196161b\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That member was out of order when he referred to one of my colleagues returning to the Chamber. That comment should be withdrawn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221514a3859d11410497bb388eaa6ebcab\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think that the member was so much remiss in the reference to the member\u2019s return; it was rather the inference that the member was absent that would put him at odds with the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d07c5936bcd4a33ad6830672ea4fbc1\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Correct; those references should not be made. I thank Mr Hayes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022e81a51fa9acb4c198795953636426677\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e81a51fa9acb4c198795953636426677\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Labour\u2014Taupo):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to pick up, in a sense, what my colleague the Hon George Hawkins started.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd12ae1f01d348238459635334ff2bfd\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Why bother?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225747498539d44df28c4df63bf3a4118e\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, because for once we had some useful contribution to the debate. I must say that I thought I had lived a long time and that the day would never come that I would have cause to stand up and have something to say in response to Sandra Goudie, because that in itself is quite a remarkable thing. But I have to ask this question\u2014and I did ask the member by way of interjection; I was serious at the time. She was lamenting the renaming of one Simpsons Beach. The questions I pose to the member are simply these: when was it named Simpsons Beach, and did it have a name before that? I really do not know the answers to those. I suspect there were some people around before those people who called it Simpsons Beach, and I suspect they probably had a name for it. But apparently it has not occurred to that member that that might be the case and, you see, I think that just denotes the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EWe have heard so much from members opposite as to why this New Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Bill is unnecessary. They seem to think that time is locked not only for once and for all but also for a very narrow band, which began, apparently, at some point about 100 years ago and is frozen there for the rest of time. Well, that may be the Tory view of the world but, I am sorry, it is not the way it really works, because culture and life is a dynamic thing. It is a living, breathing, moving thing. Things do change and evolve\u2014yes, they do, and there will be controversy and debate from time to time. The power to name is one of the most profoundly powerful things that human beings can do. To give a name, an identity, and a reality to something is a very powerful thing. Of course it is. To be able to identify and name a mountain, a river, or a place is a profoundly important thing. But for the members opposite to suggest that somehow we are now locked in for all time and that the New Zealand Geographic Board Act 1946\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e8bc92a4e794580859e422e9f7429c9\u0022\u003EHon George Hawkins\u003C/span\u003E: A good year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228228b8b5f3154a45813c977c25c8198b\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a good year as it may have been\u2014is also locked in time is unrealistic. As we witness tonight, just as that member, who was born small and perfectly formed in 1946, has evolved and changed, with some rough changes along the way and with some improvements\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276a0bf0000f04ed6a194c2261fd3d0be\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: Where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022539d88f2fd8c4563847be02830cf5aa0\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014damn! I should not have gone down that track; I am sure there are some good improvements in that member\u2014similarly, there has been a need for change in this area of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EI will just cite for the members opposite, who seem unaware of it, the research that was done. [Interruption] This is a novel idea. I know that Mr Hayes is relatively new, but he might find it useful. If he goes over to the Table, there are several pieces of paper there. One of them will be called by the name of this bill. If he is to read it, he will see that on the first two pages there is an explanatory note. That is something the member may not have encountered before, but an explanatory note tells us a bit about the bill. It tells us its purpose for being. That bill identifies in a mere 1\u2154 pages why the historical background justifies this legislation and why we need to update the 1946 Act, which had its genesis even further back in the Designation of Districts Act 1894. I am sure members opposite will think that that Act should have stayed just as it was, giving, as it did, the Governor of New Zealand the authority to alter and assign place names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EOf course, by 1946 it was clear there was a need for modernisation and change; the same situation applies now. For instance, there is the use of geographic names for identifying correct emergency incident locations. The need for that in the modern technological environment in which we now live and operate is simply and fundamentally different. On the matter of naming in relation to the continental shelf and the Ross Dependency\u2014again, these are large extensions of the role and function. The legislation needs to reflect that, and there needs to be change in order to enable that to occur. There is research underpinning this bill. It has led to and identified some of these areas of required change. This bill creates a more flexible environment that is more suited to the 21st century.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d0af1ec5a834bd992baeb844de5e9fc\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: What about the effect on tourism operations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263f09af58b2641da9d7e2f0b9b08d78a\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I know that Sandra Goudie is locked in the early part of the 20th century and is barely dragging herself out of the 19th century, but I tell the member that for the rest of us, life has moved on. The world has moved on; it is the 21st century. Even my good friend George Hawkins has accepted that we have moved from 1946 into the 21st century. Things change; things are required in order for us to effect that change in an appropriate way. This bill gives the board a concurrence role in determining names for the protected areas that are managed, for instance, by the Department of Conservation. That is a refining of its function and role, and it does this by formally involving the board in the naming process on conservation land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EI also want to identify who is involved in making decisions, because one of the criticisms that members opposite have made is about representation. Of course, had the members read the bill they would know that two new positions have been created on this board. The reason for that is the widening of the functions of the board. Therefore, because of the range of constituents it represents and the additional responsibilities it carries, those additional persons are needed to better reflect the range of constituencies that the board must consider in its decision making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EAll in all, I say to members opposite that it is the 21st century, and that they have to get with the programme. It is time to change this legislation. It has served us well, but it does need to better reflect the needs of 21st century New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022 data-id=\u00221cf86aa98255437d88a6c71667016753\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cf86aa98255437d88a6c71667016753\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL (National\u2014Rakaia):\u003C/span\u003E About a month ago a journalist for the Sunday Star-Times wrote an article lamenting that my dulcet tones had not been heard in Parliament for some time, so by popular demand I am back. I suppose the fact that I am speaking tonight is also evidence that global warming really is happening. Let us think about that for a moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EThe most significant thing I want to say on the New Zealand Geographic Board (Ng\u0101 Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Bill is that the National Party opposes it, and opposes it for very good reasons. I was a member of the select committee that wrote the commentary on the bill, and I want to commend it to the House by reading the last paragraph of that commentary, which summarises National\u2019s position on the bill very well. Members opposite should have taken the time to read it, because when they get out into their constituencies\u2014if they have them\u2014their constituents will be raising this issue with them. The paragraph states: \u201CNational members hold strongly to the view that consultation is not only important but necessary, and that a more practical and commercial approach towards private entities should be adopted. In the absence of any changes to address our concerns, National opposes the bill.\u201D, and our position certainly has not changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022 data-id=\u002217048da44ee44440b32b77ae7178c126\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217048da44ee44440b32b77ae7178c126\u0022\u003ETIM BARNETT (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very proud to speak in the second reading stage of the New Zealand Geographic Board (Nga Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) Bill. I am just checking with my colleague Mr Flavell that my pronunciation is adequate for this moment. I would like to begin by acknowledging what in springtime would be like the appearance of the cuckoo: the appearance of Brian Connell, in a rare and very important peroration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EHe provided a very useful service to the House by pointing out to Mr Hayes that not only was there an explanatory note to the bill but also something called a report of the Government Administration Committee. Mr Hayes, in all of his wonderful 7 minutes of speaking on the bill, did not make any reference to the arguments that his National colleagues put forward in the commentary. But anyway I shall ignore that just for a moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that the quality of any democracy is best measured by the effectiveness of the Opposition. I have to say that sitting here as somebody who has had, up to this stage, a casual interest in this legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218b5b9d4e5ca4bb18671de172f1026e5\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Standing Orders make it very clear that a member is not entitled to shift his or her seat for the purpose of interjecting. There has been a stream of interjections from Mr Hayes. I am prepared to accept that maybe it is only the end of his interjections, but I feel that if Mr Hayes is going to interject in this manner he should be required to go back to his designated seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205198a7946d2400d84e740bb4bdf4df8\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: This House is robust and I do not think that Mr Hayes\u2019 interjections were over the top; I think they were reasonable. In fact, I found them quite funny. I think it would be a shame if the House were to sit here in stony silence. I think he was making a significant contribution. I note that he has been sitting there all night. I have been watching the debate with some interest from my office, and I can assure the House that he has not moved seats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239ad617d88964eecb79b34af5da63a1b\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I do not need any further assistance. It is my view that John Hayes did not move his seat for the purpose of interjecting. That should be obvious to anyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d2c963dbb2f42038369b22bd34c7efd\u0022\u003ETIM BARNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I was actually imagining that Mr Hayes\u2019 involuntary shouts in the Chamber were just a reflection of the fact that since the beginning of this debate he now understands both what a commentary is and what an explanatory note is. Maybe we are moving on in the course of this matter this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EAs I was saying, it seems to me that the quality of any democracy really is measured by the effectiveness of the Opposition. As someone who has had only a casual interest in this legislation up until now, I listened very carefully to try to understand why the National Party is opposing this legislation. In doing that I listened most carefully to Sandra Goudie, who seems to me to be the sharp end of the National Party\u2019s opposition to this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie started by offering to explain how bills are introduced to Parliament, which was very useful. She then offered the very useful reflection that we had to look at any bill to work out what was in the legislation. Then she suddenly said that the bill was innocuous. That is very strange, because she said that the bill was innocuous in its first reading at the same time as her colleague Lindsay Tisch said it was very bureaucratic. We can explain that by saying it is a bit slippery. But let us move on from there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EWe have now heard from Shane Ardern that the bill is not bureaucratic enough. We have a bill that is innocuous, not bureaucratic enough, and too bureaucratic. That is fine. Then I listened to Sandra Goudie\u2019s two particular issues around the legislation. One was that she said there was no definition of a problem. I will come to that afterwards, but it seems to me that this legislation has a forward-looking and very important element at its core. Secondly, she mentioned the problem with discretion over public notification, which none of her colleagues even bothered to mention, so I can really ignore that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EThen there was a fascinating little byway that Sandra Goudie took us on, in talking about a place that she regards as having been called Simpsons Beach from the beginning of time. She called that the real name of the beach. But it was given its original M\u0101ori place name again and that, according to Sandra Goudie, is its colloquial name. So we go from having had a nation with a colloquial naming policy to real names\u2014from M\u0101ori to English. That is an extraordinary statement about values, the importance of language, and, as my colleague Mark Burton was saying, the importance of naming and the importance of history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EI realised at that point that whatever this legislation is about, it is about something pretty important. When I started to look at it in more detail and to listen to the wise words of my colleagues here I thought to myself that the key part of this legislation, which is so important, is that it is extending the ability of the board to grant naming rights to an area 25 times the size of the current land area of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EThis legislation recognises that one of the places in the world that contains wealth and that will be particularly important in our future is the seabed. This legislation is extending the area of the geographic board from the land area of our country to a sea area 25 times that size, over which Sovereign rights can be exercised. New Zealand needs to show that it has an interest in naming it. As Mark Burton said, that is fundamental to a nation expressing an interest in a place and is a recognition of the characteristics of that place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EAsserting naming and mapping rights is at the heart of this legislation. That is recognising that the seabed, in our extraordinary position as a developed nation in a massive expanse of sea, is actually a strength for our nation and not a weakness. I commend both the Minister and the Labour members of the select committee for recognising the strengths of this legislation. I am very proud to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b30c656ad1834506a511c5b42c6f0db5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b30c656ad1834506a511c5b42c6f0db5\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E I have been listening to this debate with some interest, as my name has come up a couple of times. It is always reassuring to know that we had an impact during the first reading of a bill. I notice that one of the speakers, George Hawkins, talked about the name of a significant mountain in the North Island, always known as Mount Egmont, having been changed to Mount Taranaki. I have a particular interest in that area, because my mother came from Egmont Village and went to school there. With this legislation, I wonder whether the name of that village will now have to change to Taranaki Village. The village is synonymous with the mountain; that is why it had the name Egmont Village. Now that the mountain is named Mount Taranaki\u2014and we accept that\u2014the point is that if this legislation goes ahead, do we have to change the name of the village that lies under the mountain? It could well be that people in the future will refer to that little hamlet as Taranaki Village. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EI am sure that the people who live there or who went to school there, like my family did, are going to say that that is absolute nonsense. They were brought up knowing that those places were Mount Egmont and Egmont Village, only to find that the names are to change because a few people are to sit on a board and decide that that is how it will be in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EWe said right in the first reading of this bill that this was going to be a bureaucratic nightmare. There will be a compliance cost associated with having a board constituted to make decisions about what names should be. My colleague to my left, John Hayes, talked about the regulatory impact. In this legislation, there is not one mention of a regulatory impact statement or that there will be a compliance cost for businesses. Tourism has been mentioned on a number of occasions, especially by Sandra Goudie. Should names be changed at a whim\u2014hopefully there will be a consultative process, but that is probably unlikely\u2014there will be a huge compliance cost to be met by the sorts of businesses that will have to comply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ELet us remember that tourism is New Zealand\u2019s number one export earner\u2014worth $18.6 billion\u2014and this legislation will put a huge compliance cost on those areas. I doubt whether tourism operators know that this legislation is before the House. They will soon know about it, because I will tell them. So if we were to look\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad39b3becd874b09a4288ae85fe6550d\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: Read the commentary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c533bcf5962b45f48e347d54fa8ff9d6\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: It is in the commentary; Brian Connell has made a good point. The thing about it is that I am sure that if it were not for the National members putting their views in there, then the industry at large\u2014and New Zealanders at large\u2014would not know the significance of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESo I support my colleagues here in saying that this bill is not necessary. I ask where the mischief is. Why, after all these years, do we have to make changes? Where is the mischief that means that this legislation should proceed? National has opposed this bill, and I am happy to be taking a call to oppose it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f605c09d2ab645d19b0a6efbfa50606e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 2; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Independent: Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002224cfda94d4734ca58c4daf6622189516\u0022\u003EBirths, Deaths, Marriages, and RelationshipsRegistration Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227fb7d8d02c564c97b5e5be22940150a1\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u00225a0e0369ccd249e98e28d1aa2351bd64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a0e0369ccd249e98e28d1aa2351bd64\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Amendment Bill be now read a second time. All of us are required to give our personal information to the Births, Deaths and Marriages registry whenever we have a child, get married, or enter into a civil union. Our personal information will again be collected when we die. This information is used as part of the basis of our country\u2019s official population statistics and provides an invaluable source of information for demographic, historical, and health research. It also provides official evidence that an event has occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThere are therefore two key concepts underlying the main provisions of this bill: first, that people must be able to access and obtain evidence of the information that supports their identity and family history; and, second, that it is vital that the public trust the Government to be a responsible steward of their personal information. Those concepts are especially important in light of the fact that today the world\u2019s social and technological conditions have changed since the registers were first established here in the mid-1800s. In particular, the ability to gather and search across large amounts of personal identity information now that the registers have shifted from a paper-based environment to a computerised environment, and a public concern about the prevalence of identity fraud have meant that the traditional position of having virtually all registered information publicly available, practically without any controls, is no longer appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe bill as introduced proposed a robust regime for gaining access to the registered information relating to births, deaths, marriages, and civil unions. Access was to be granted for legitimate purposes that were consistent with the reason why the information was collected from individuals. A great deal of misinformation about the bill\u2019s effects was reported in various media sources, which was unfortunate. Despite that, I have said in this House, in the media, and to people who have written to me and approached me personally that I would consider any workable suggestion that achieved a balance in the law between ensuring that individuals and families have their personal information protected from abuse, and ensuring that members of the public can access other people\u2019s records for legitimate purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EOn 10 October 2007 I wrote to the Government Administration Committee to suggest an alternative approach that could be taken to achieve an appropriate balance. I express my gratitude to the Labour members of the committee and to Mr Keith Locke, a non-voting member of the committee, who adopted and developed the suggestions I made to the committee to amend the access provisions. Although the contribution of Mr Peter Brown, another non-voting member of the committee, is not reflected in the committee\u2019s report, I am also grateful to him for working with the Labour and Green members to develop a workable amendment that could be accommodated by the Government, including addressing some of the technical issues raised in some of the 151 public submissions made on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EAlthough it is disappointing that the committee could not agree on the amendments to the bill, I intend to put forward a Supplementary Order Paper in the Committee stage to incorporate the suggestions made by those select committee members. The changes set out on the Supplementary Order Paper will mean that any member of the public could still generally access another person\u2019s registered information. However, there would be a new mechanism that increases the individual\u2019s ability to know and control when his or her personal information is released to other people. When applying to access a record\u2014for example, in the form of a birth certificate\u2014an applicant will have to present adequate identification. People will be able to check an access register in order to find out who has applied to access their records, and public sector agencies will be able to search the access register for maintenance of law purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EPeople will be able to request on certain grounds that their records not be disclosed to the public for a certain period. The grounds for and duration of those non-disclosure directions will be prescribed by regulation. I would not expect the regulations to provide that everyone will be able to apply to a non-disclosure direction for any reason, but instead that they will require applicants to point to some substantive reason for needing protection. Setting the grounds and the time period in regulations will mean that the Government can respond more quickly and efficiently to changing societal conditions and expectations, by making the mechanism narrower or wider as appropriate. Where a non-disclosure direction is in force, a person who wants to access the record could get authorisation from the subject of the record. Otherwise, a person who wants such access would just receive confirmation that the record existed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EIf the subject of the record has publicly disclosed personal information about himself or herself, any person could apply for that information to be verified against that person\u2019s records. That would meet concerns about fraudsters attempting to mislead the public and conceal relevant information where there is a public interest in the correct information being known. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EA review of the operation of the access provisions 5 years after their commencement will ensure they will provide an effective and efficient process that balances our interests, as the subjects of the records, in the protection of our own personal information with our interests, as members of the public, in being able to access other people\u2019s records for legitimate purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper will also address a number of technical issues that arose during the select committee process, including delaying the commencement of the bill by 6 months to ensure that the bill\u2019s provisions can be implemented in the most effective manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI also intend to put forward a second Supplementary Order Paper in the Committee stage to address a technical issue that has arisen from a recent Family Court decision declaring that under the Act\u2019s current provisions, an overseas-born transgender applicant\u2019s birth certificate should be now changed to show the applicant\u2019s nominated sex. The Supplementary Order Paper will clarify the ability of overseas-born applicants to seek similar declarations for the future, although it will ensure that the Births, Deaths and Marriages registry is not necessarily involved in applications that relate to people whose details are not registered in New Zealand, and that the Family Court\u2019s processes are not abused by applicants who do not have a genuine connection with New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EA third Supplementary Order Paper will update the bill in the light of the Human Tissue Bill, which has just passed its third reading. This is a technical amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EBefore closing, I will make some brief comments about another aspect of the bill where some confusion arose during the first reading debate. This is in respect of the new requirement that both parents sign the notification form when registering the birth of their child. The bill provides an exemption to allow only one parent to sign in cases where the other parent is missing, is unknown, is unable to sign the form because of a medical condition, or has died, or where unwarranted distress would result from trying to get the second parent\u2019s signature. In those cases, although only one parent would be required to sign the form, the details of both parents can be registered. Therefore the child would not miss out on learning about both parents, as some members had feared. In cases where there is only one parent at law\u2014for example, where a child was conceived as a result of an assisted reproductive procedure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20080408bbbcb9e4689c4969ac68e3775ee4c23f000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"