"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022af9690ee53654f2c8dcdd1c650fa2907\u0022\u003EWednesday, 14 May 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4967ecadb504e938f9d277c17a4816e\u0022\u003EWednesday, 14 May 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d01d5dece544a049ab75aa796a331b6\u0022\u003ECommittees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee715c31b4c3487d97ad043e076122fa\u0022\u003EBusiness of Select Committees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227dc1ef81d99948b5a611f05586045912\u0022\u003EMeetings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd39abbecb004544a6fa619d0b2d3939\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd39abbecb004544a6fa619d0b2d3939\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Pursuant to an agreement in the Business Committee yesterday, I seek leave for the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to have authority to meet in Australia, and with committees of the Australian Parliament, from 26 to 30 May 2008, and to adopt such practices and procedures as are suitable for the conduct of the business of the meetings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e37b11f6d48e4b239cf7dd2a7dc93660\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e63bb6045c634ee1897f1da7f4e07399\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e63bb6045c634ee1897f1da7f4e07399\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Further to another agreement in the Business Committee, I seek leave for the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee to have authority to meet on the evenings of 15 and 22 May 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022892873ece69e4abc8338cbdd32d220ca\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e073f62fcdd748e4a19990896168f417\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229ae08d5bc8de4c4eab2446e62a2631ed\u0022\u003EEarthquake\u2014Sichuan, China\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002299bbd14c12d04f73aa635b4b03340242\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299bbd14c12d04f73aa635b4b03340242\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this Parliament extend its heartfelt sympathy to the Chinese Government and people following the catastrophic earthquake centred in Sichuan province, which has killed at least 12,000 people and destroyed the homes of hundreds of thousands of people; and is impressed by the large-scale mobilisation of relief teams to rescue those trapped in the rubble and to assist those in need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb4a9954158f4661ba067050705d3a5f\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e63dd22ac3f4dc1b247974cd871b632\u0022\u003EYasus Afari\u2014Presentation of Book\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0af28dd559447b39ca452e3d1165b30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0af28dd559447b39ca452e3d1165b30\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I beg your indulgence of my drawing the attention of the House to the fact that noted Rastafarian philosopher Yasus Afari is in the gallery. He has today presented a book on Rastafarian philosophy to this Parliament through you, Madam Speaker. I wanted to bring the House\u2019s attention to that fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228509b5d552434f2caa99033b1a01178b\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223fe73140334c412cac900de0581c7d52\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226175a37b65804adc99a328a300b7dfc2\u0022\u003EInnovation and Regional Economic Development\u2014Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf81283de42d44c3a8f23a3f4467569b\u0022\u003E1. SUE MORONEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: What action has the Government taken to support innovation and regional economic development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u002263415c4712f3469f996b2af918cd5199\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263415c4712f3469f996b2af918cd5199\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has moved from the 1990s policy of treating innovation with disdain and ignoring it as something that only the market could provide, to a point where innovation is now a vital part of this country\u2019s economic transformation. In recent weeks, for example, I have announced up to $4 million for the Enterprising Partnerships Fund to the Waikato Innovation Park in Hamilton, which is aimed at helping innovative business in agricultural technology, agricultural engineering, and the food-related sectors to become established and to grow in the Waikato, and similarly, up to $1.9 million for the Otago institute of design, aimed at establishing an applied design research centre to provide design services, research, and education to business in that region and across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b33679112893422f93a54444f59c580b\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: How will the $4 million for the Waikato Innovation Park be used to help the Waikato and the nation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f1bc6f2b842414d829b7de46a2e1a64\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Up to $2 million of it will be available to support the construction of a new purpose-built building for the park, and a further $2 million will be available for Innovation Waikato\u2019s business development services. This funding will be matched by $2.4 million of cash contribution from the Hamilton City Council. It is an excellent example of how Government can work together in partnership with local communities, even though the National Party, by its interjections, clearly does not like it. I would like to thank the member for her ongoing support and good efforts in bringing this partnership to fruition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d920194afff413789744635f131bb83\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned at the steady stream of manufacturers and processing plants closing their New Zealand operations, particularly in rural communities, and has he looked at the influence of our high interest rates and high dollar on these closures; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d74161456a434740a6e635871a7afe84\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: For the past 20 years or so the number of New Zealanders employed in manufacturing has vacillated between 250,000 and 300,000 jobs. It is currently at about 270,000, I think. That is a level of activity that, although lower than most economies, means that New Zealand has not been subjected to the hollowing out in commodity manufacture that has afflicted the various rust belts around other Western economies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002251fe0d8362224b8bb40c01ce1966502f\u0022\u003EImmigration, Minister\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221481f599c00240ed9aef269bcdc6c3c9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in the Minister of Immigration; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00225e6142d2941e47c9a0207c5e55f506f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e6142d2941e47c9a0207c5e55f506f7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, because he is a hard-working and conscientious Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7befd9f9fa54fcc9870dd8a06364e99\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister stand by her \u201Cno surprises\u201D policy, which expects public servants \u201Cto advise Ministers in advance of issues likely to impinge on the Government\u2019s responsibilities or likely to attract political comment\u201D; if so, is it not likely that the chief executive of the Department of Labour advised her Minister of Immigration well before April 2007 that the Prime Minister\u2019s former chief policy adviser and head of the Immigration Service was under investigation for improper behaviour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229293b2f649314f42bf236315d882bc4b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If I follow that somewhat contorted question fully, I think the answer is yes and no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6be926ccd7b43b99d10c3f0227d24dc\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why does she have confidence in a Minister of Immigration who certainly knew about the investigation of the head of the Immigration Service in July 2007, who almost certainly must have known\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286f25c905070484aade8d6f6e9d31e3d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think we have to be clear about which Minister we are talking about here. I was asked whether I had confidence in the Minister of Immigration, who is, of course, the Hon Clayton Cosgrove. I suggest that the member cannot then build upon that any supplementary questions relating to a Minister who may have held that office before the Hon Clayton Cosgrove did, otherwise that opens up the ability, for example, to ask the Prime Minister a question about confidence in the Minister of Finance, then to ask me as Acting Prime Minister about Mr English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f97fefa1c1614bdaa796639ea8face1d\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Notwithstanding the example Dr Cullen gave, the reality is that the Minister of Immigration in this case would always be presumed to be the Minister of Immigration in the current Government, and there should be no separation of the role of Minister of Immigration even if the personalities holding that particular portfolio change. There is one Minister of Immigration. To suggest that suddenly a new Minister will not be responsible for, or accountable for, actions in that department prior to that time is, I think, a little bit of a stretch for the House to accept. In any case, does that mean that the Prime Minister is unable to express confidence in the work of the Hon David Cunliffe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022122cd88f105042fd8a4505555f8afbc0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think the last point is totally irrelevant. The point is that I cannot be asked questions in my prime ministerial role about the actions of the Minister of Immigration previously who is not the current Minister, when the primary question asked me for confidence in the Minister of Immigration who is the current Minister of Immigration, not all those people who have held office as Minister of Immigration in this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af493803cf64b9ca7bc0b862611c415\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: This is a problem, Madam Speaker. I am sure the Hon Dr Michael Cullen will agree that we have to be able to ask questions about decisions made by a previous Minister, because if we cannot, then obviously the Government could just rotate Ministers through and there would be no responsibility. I think the difficulty we have is with the wording. I suggest, Madam Speaker, that you allow this question to proceed but give us some advice, because how to actually phrase the wording has been an ongoing problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1acf573fd5d4450aaca190c6e6e1456\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank members for their contribution. Ministers are responsible for their portfolio areas, so a question relating to confidence in the Minister of Immigration\u2014although it would be to the current Minister of Immigration\u2014about issues relating to immigration outside the scope of the current Minister\u2019s time in office, would be relevant to be asked. I think the issue is about the naming of specific Ministers, as opposed to about the responsibilities relating to the Minister of Immigration. So it is more, I think, Mr English, about the way in which you phrase your question, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222beea9abac7842ae9300f5597ff50277\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: How can the public have confidence in the operation of her Government, when it appears that the Minister of Immigration knew about the investigation in July 2007 but sat on it until media attention in May 2008; and that previous Ministers of Immigration almost certainly knew about these events when they occurred in 2005?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0dd4b7581644481b965344153227f0f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am still not quite sure what bit of non-existent dirt the member is trying to dig up, but if he is trying to imply that any Minister knew about the latest allegation surrounding the previous head of the Immigration Service, then I can assure him that he is completely wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248e78bc1f4d240a9be85e390908bc9e8\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement: \u201CIt is a bit surprising that the matter was dealt with in the way it was.\u201D, when it would be a surprise if we were expected to believe that the chief executive of the Department of Labour investigated improper conduct by the head of the Immigration Service in 2005 and never told anybody; that the stand-in chief executive commissioned a report by Mr Oughton and never told anybody; and that Ministers did not find out until November 2007?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b64dd5e2fbb947f190d6c9de86fa3416\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I must say I do have a PhD in history but I am having real trouble following what the member is trying to get at in terms of time lines. The chronology seems to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238446d68f74b40fd8f05077c9ec5ac71\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is covering up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cbe2dbddcf84ed18468dcddae034efd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Not at all. The previous question implied that Ministers were trying to say they knew nothing about something until May 2008; now the member is trying to say \u201CNovember 2007\u201D. The fact that there was an inquiry undertaken by Mr Oughton is a well-known fact. There is no dispute about that, and that was in relation to matters of employment issues and certain actions by Miss Thompson. The member seems still to be trying, in some way, to link this to some much more recent accusations, which are the subject of police investigations, which Ministers knew nothing about until other people did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c842688f67e74893a3b25644790f81c7\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the activities of the head of the Immigration Service, which were investigated by the Department of Labour, occurred in 2004-05, about the same time as Taito Phillip Field was obtaining large numbers of discretionary approvals from the Associate Minister of Immigration; and is it not possible that the behaviour of Ministers and MPs around immigration matters created an environment where officials felt they too could break the rules with impunity, because her only standard for behaviour is \u201CDon\u2019t get caught.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f643dc94f2244bbbc3876c88deda811\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228efc5bf82a084d0992388aaa3ccf5c87\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is not merely rubbish; it is very close to being paranoid rubbish. There is no linkage between those events, at all. I point out to the member that investigations have occurred. In one of those cases those investigations led to police investigations, and deposition hearings are being carried out. In the second case, matters have now been referred by the State Services Commission to the police. The other matters are employment matters, which came to an end, obviously, with Miss Thompson\u2019s resignation. But there are now other matters under police investigation, and I have no intention of satisfying the member\u2019s desire to try to prejudge the outcome of those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dc0332e8d3b43318184dd5cae972a6e\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain why these events are following a particularly similar road to those surrounding Taito Phillip Field\u2014namely, that the Minister of Immigration at the time, David Cunliffe, knew about it and did nothing, that the Government then attempted to cover up the activity, then denied that anything happened, then denied the need for an investigation, then, under media\u2014[Interruption] I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can I start again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6595fae0efe4413ae66ae6afc19c4a0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, just continue, please, because there were interruptions all the time. It was very difficult to hear the answer to the following questions, so would you please just continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228991b85f73f448b8a5d05fb19ad71317\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My colleagues are telling me they could not hear the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022646d9ab094eb413baee929d0ef0721b0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In which case, then, we will\u2014but we will have the answer in silence, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a89ec012a2f4adf8aa66fb3073282a1\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister tell the House why the Government is going down the same road as it did with Taito Phillip Field, namely that the Minister of Immigration at the time, David Cunliffe, knew about these activities and did nothing, that the Government then tried to cover that up, denied anything happened, then denied any need for investigation, then under media pressure caved in and shoved the matter off to the police to try to avoid any further political damage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25b4e3032e849cf8be1856974a47299\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That question makes Mr Ian Wishart look like a raving rationalist compared with that member. What actually happened in this case was that certain events came to light, an investigation was undertaken by Mr Oughton, and those related in the end to employment matters\u2014the responsibility of the chief executive\u2014were dealt with. The chief executive subsequently, after further questioning by the current Minister, sought legal advice as to whether he was able to re-open the initial investigation about employment matters and was advised that he was not. Subsequent to that it was determined the State Services Commission could investigate the investigation itself, which is what the State Services Commission has been doing. In the course of that investigation, matters have emerged, previously unknown to Ministers, questioning Miss Thompson\u2019s credentials that she claimed in applying for appointments both in 1990 and in 1998 in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and because of the nature of that evidence, that evidence has been referred to the police for investigation. That is not some kind of conspiracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279fb3734f9e0469da75263f45f3d0e2e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Three separate National members interjected after a clear direction to all members of the House not to interject on questions or answers. I ask you to reflect on whether reminding them three times as you did during that question, by calling order, is enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d10a60e2e2334687b965a64478bef1c5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member and I also noticed there was an interjection from members on the Government side of the House as well. However, I will say to members we now have zero tolerance. I will be asking members to leave if they do not observe the rulings of the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd68ff042df24afb903350408efdf2d0\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Prime Minister now expecting the public and the Parliament to believe that everything is fine, and was fine, when, in respect of the Immigration Service in the period 2004-05, the department was caught lying in unison by the Ombudsman, a member of the Labour Government was caught indulging in activities that have now landed him in a corruption trial in court, and the head of the Immigration Service was caught influencing officials on behalf of family members and apparently David Cunliffe knew nothing about it, the Prime Minister knew nothing about any of this, and the public is expected to think that high standards of public behaviour have been imposed by her?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d474daf22e564f299548326011d9301a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly not. How Mr Cunliffe could be accused of knowing nothing when an investigation was under way while he was the Minister, even that member\u2019s strange, contorted mind cannot possibly arrive at. I remind the member yet again that both the case of Mr Field, where charges were laid and the matter is now in front of the court, and the case of Miss Thompson, where the police are undertaking investigations, would scarcely suggest the Government does not take the matters seriously. But these are now matters that are outside the ability of this House to start making comment on, and if we show respect for the legal process, then we should actually maintain some silence about those processes now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002273b55c6dfdfd46a1967d021634d7e9de\u0022\u003EEmissions Trading Scheme\u2014Transport Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a356da5c51141e7b2a83a1d2b80abf2\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: Why has the Government delayed the inclusion of the transport sector into its proposed emissions trading scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u00220549804376db477988177ad6d9712be8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220549804376db477988177ad6d9712be8\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister for Economic Development) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: In short, because the rapid and significant rise in the price of world oil is doing the job for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ab9a6a76fe0447483e2d12a0f935806\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: If inclusion in the emissions trading scheme is dictated by consumer affordability\u2014in this case, the price of oil\u2014why on earth has the Government further delayed, rather than brought forward, the obligation of the agriculture and energy sectors, when the dairy payout is up 60 percent on last year\u2019s and export coal prices have recently tripled, leading to rapidly increasing emissions from cows and coal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6ac4e4442a5450098cb0f049770d79f\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues has said on many occasions, the emissions trading legislation is a matter of striking a balance between many competing interests. The Government thinks that the balance that has been expressed in recent days is at about the right point, and I look forward to the support, I hope, of all the members of this House for the passage of the legislation on its return from the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d9de84a64f04f258271d7c15daea96e\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Does the changed entry date for certain sectors alter the fundamentals of the emissions trading scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205836a3906e546e582b8537aa0067694\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, it does not. The fundamentals remain intact. Let us remind ourselves of what they are. The fundamentals are all gases and all sectors, and\u2014in some respects, a more important fundamental\u2014participants will face the full price of their emissions at the margin. In other words, the marginal signal comes into effect from the outset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bef788ea8404a408328e4bff2854902\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How will the emissions trading system now work, when officials advise that the originally designed scheme carefully balanced the market of 100 million tonnes of buyers and 100 million tonnes of sellers of credits from forestry, but now, with the deferral of the transport fuels, there is 40 million fewer tonnes of buyers, leaving foresters with no one to buy their credits, and does not this illustrate that the decision to defer the transport fuels was a knee-jerk reaction made outside of a proper policy process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da3315f892c54d539d7561d2ddf3ff18\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, there has been no knee-jerk reaction. But the answer to the essence of the member\u2019s question is that the emissions trading scheme is not a domestic scheme but an international one, and the world is a big place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299306dfbc4384edb9360274fbac29d4a\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister think it will be easier to bring in transport fuels in 2011\u2014which is another election year\u2014when oil prices will be much higher than they are now; or does he think that because emissions are not rising, it is OK to stabilise transport emissions at their current level of 60 percent above our 1990 target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd45feded83349bb83887591b048964e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for acknowledging that transport emissions have at last stabilised. I think the member and I in earlier years were wondering whether that would ever happen; well, it has. But I think the member raises a good point, and I suspect that the best way to answer it is to remind the member that behaviour is driven by not just the level of oil prices but also the pace of change, and the pace of change has been dramatic. The price of oil 3 or 4 years ago was about one-quarter of what it is now. It has been a really dramatic change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022793fca9f0a004e8f9951084e177556c0\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Noting the Minister\u2019s plea for support for the bill when it comes back to the House, is he aware of the concerns of the New Zealand Shipping Federation that failing to exempt local shipping companies from the emissions trading scheme will hand international ship operators a substantial cost advantage at a time when there is a clear environmental and transport need to grow our domestic shipping industry; if he is aware of that, can he advise how the issue will be rectified?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1e87434f24447549c9512a9fdb97c47\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am afraid I am not able to give the member a thorough answer to his question at this point, in my role as an acting Minister. But I will say that the member raises one of many different points of view about who should be excluded, included, exempted, given a special deal, or not given a special deal, and that is the debate before us. The question is whether this House believes we have struck the right balance and will support the legislation on its return from the select committee. It is now 11 years since the Kyoto Protocol was signed. It is now 6 years since the Kyoto Protocol was ratified. It is time\u2014sooner or later\u2014to move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ebb0c3032db46fb849a674ca1669b57\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the statement of the Nobel Peace Prize - winning scientist and chair of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Rajendra Pachauri\u2014who, incidentally, will be the feature guest of the Government next month, when the world spotlight will be on New Zealand hosting World Environment Day\u2014that \u201CIf there\u2019s no action before 2012, that\u2019s too late. What we do in the next two to three years will determine our future. This is the defining moment.\u201D; and what are the implications of that statement for the half of our emissions that are totally exempt until 2013?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220967fbd29c1646c1919c566db2ee5043\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think that Dr Pachauri has put his finger on it, and I think that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, as a body of knowledge, has done this globe an amazing service. However, the member overlooks the fact that there is the idea of a full charge and there is the idea of a marginal charge for additional emissions. The marginal cost\u2014the marginal price signals\u2014is something that will come into play in this country ahead of its coming into play in most countries. If we can get it through, we can say that we have shown some degree of leadership in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216074181f12a461cb43b45ba48896f43\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Can I outline a few facts to the Minister: New Zealand coastal vessels already face costs that foreign vessels do not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2b1dd95ccf64ffc89b01ae663eff30c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the question, please? Would the member just ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022786c409a2dd2478e89a6c59ea7c77550\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of these concerns: New Zealand coastal vessels already face costs that foreign vessels do not, fuel costs represent a significant proportion of a vessel\u2019s operating costs, and a coal-burning vessel would be exempt while a liquid-fuel vessel would not be exempt? Does the Minister agree that that does not make sense and something must be done about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccf0d587d21c434f9c9d456022f64813\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of the first two facts that the member posits; I was unaware of the third. But, then again, I do not know of a coal-fired vessel. Maybe we still have them; I am not sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002231432c1919cf4837bf99984db2986cf2\u0022\u003EImmigration Service\u2014Mary Anne Thompson\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c8987496ef34fe38b728c8f554b9e04\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of State Services: When will the State Services Commissioner complete his investigation into concerns about the handling by the Department of Labour of matters relating to family members of the former head of the Immigration Service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002291c4e126cac4446ab8e1f5759b090c0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291c4e126cac4446ab8e1f5759b090c0f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of State Services: The State Services Commissioner advises that his investigation is making good progress but he is not yet in a position to provide a date for the completion of the investigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204f5242a635b4713ad144a2a86092ab8\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: When did the Minister of State Services become aware of allegations of inappropriate behaviour relating to the head of the Immigration Service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221779164f8721435aa0971426ba9b19d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure I can answer that question. I am not quite sure what the member is referring to. If it is the matter in relation to family members, then I have no information on that matter. If it is in relation to the more recent accusations, that would be within the last couple of days or so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c988b81b139c4bb5afef33c708a04444\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why cannot the Minister give a straight answer to the very important question of when the Minister of State Services first found out about allegations relating to Mary Anne Thompson and the advantage that may or may not have been given to her family; and why is his memory so unreliable when there are public statements from Clayton Cosgrove, David Cunliffe, and the Prime Minister on this matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e4c067538034d29b553d5049e7ac791\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: One of my colleagues has helped me by advising that probably the Minister found out when he became the Minister in November last year, and when he was presumably briefed on matters concerning the State services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022740698ed40e94e66b2c4de8613b1375d\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister of State Services not then launch an immediate investigation into the allegations and how they were dealt with, rather than waiting for Television New Zealand (TVNZ) to uncover the wrongdoing and for the Prime Minister to indicate that an inquiry should be undertaken, in an obvious effort to avoid further embarrassment around the Public Service in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f0ffbd283c41c3864f71e7e9486274\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I will try to run through the chronology again. Some matters were raised, as I understand it, which led to the Chief Executive of the Department of Labour commissioning an inquiry. That was appropriate, because the chief executive was the person responsible for employment matters in relation to Mary Anne Thompson. That investigation was carried out, and reported to the chief executive. The report was his property. He took the action he deemed appropriate. In the light of subsequent information coming to light\u2014the other information coming to light\u2014there was obviously significant further concern. Eventually the State Services Commission decided to investigate the investigation itself\u2014that is, whether the chief executive had carried out his functions properly. It is not a matter for the Minister; it is a matter for the State Services Commissioner, because the commissioner is the responsible person for the employment of chief executives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa43012339ce4f2181b06842edb0ad1b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the Chief Executive of the Department of Labour, Dr Buwalda, became aware of these allegations sometime towards the end of 2006 or in 2005; that he subsequently required Mr Oughton to undertake an inquiry; that, first, Mr Oughton reported on an interim inquiry to the Minister in May 2007 and, second, he gave a final report in July 2007; that the Minister decided to sit on that report until it was handed over to the new Minister in December 2007 and the new Minister also decided to sit on that report; and that it was not until investigative journalism by Television New Zealand uncovered the full extent of the potential for corruption that the Prime Minister finally decided to give up the cover-up and undertake a further investigation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e885a0e29a4f7c90b0ef77bb027a4e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think there are roughly about two yeses at the start and the rest of the answers are noes, because the member made one significant change during the course of his question. The chief executive ordered the inquiry. The inquiry was carried out by Mr Oughton. Mr Oughton reported to the chief executive, not to the Minister. The Minister did not receive the report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d38371899ad2462e81b7cea8384e27a4\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister asking the House to accept that very serious allegations about the head of the Immigration Service were investigated by Mr Oughton at the behest of the Chief Executive of the Department of Labour, that at no point did the Chief Executive of the Department of Labour tell the Minister of Immigration, the Minister responsible for the Department of Labour, the State Services Commissioner, or the Minister of State Services, and that when the Minister finally got the report in July he saw no particular reason to be surprised or concerned or to ask a few more questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cecb65ba00154c91aea5950dfa38987f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The then Minister of Immigration did not receive that report. I find it extraordinary that a party that for the last 2 years has been chasing any number of stories, partially true or completely untrue, about ministerial interference in the employment of staff should suddenly turn round and say that the Minister of Immigration should have had his fingers all over an issue relating to the employment of staff within the Department of Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3bc5db9f2d54929a0ee6b9fc2ff087c\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister not see the position that we are trying to get to here and, perhaps, the double standard that his Government operates under: we have serious allegations of corruption against a senior public servant, and Ministers want to dismiss that as being an operational matter and nothing to do with them, but just last year a person working in a ministry had Ministers meddling all over the top of it, not because she had done anything wrong but simply because she knew a person the Government did not like?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b5666b3bf8f45168065fa946d97d488\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think that the double standard was actually brought right into that question, if I understood the question correctly. The member needs to understand that this was entirely a matter for the chief executive. It was not a matter for the Minister\u2014not a matter for the Minister\u2014who did not receive the report. If one does not receive a report, then it is very hard to cover it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250bb299b8e69455da14e9f51d1e25c4c\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister of State Services explain why the Prime Minister said that the Hon Clayton Cosgrove had received the report, that that report was handed to him by the Hon David Cunliffe, and that the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, like the Hon David Cunliffe, was keeping his colleagues informed, or was the Prime Minister simply desperately saying anything she could say to avoid the allegations of a cover-up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225db8e955e09a44a390e0f15a69647a82\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: There is no cover-up. There is no report handed by\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229acd33ff459e4edca130c1908db0faf8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did it take TVNZ to open it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022990fdbbc69b34829b20f057584aad772\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: One has to make special allowances for that member. There is no report handed by the previous Minister of Immigration to the incoming Minister of Immigration. When new facts became available, the State Services Commission launched an inquiry into whether the former chief executive had carried out his investigation properly. The chief executive, in Mr Cosgrove\u2019s understanding, tried to see whether, in fact, he could reopen the original investigation and was advised by Crown Law that he could not do so because of employment law matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af38ff9e1afb44e585926ef3c86393ee\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think it is appropriate that all that now appears to be on the record as Government action in this case is the ordering of an investigation into an investigation, and no particular investigation into the validity of the allegations that are being made and as to whether there is widespread corruption inside the Immigration Service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269ba618a3d4d4a66bf8f0677c69dd6dd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: We have moved from one set of allegations about actions by Ms Thompson to, I assume, another set of allegations about Ms Thompson, and to a much wider set of allegations about the entire department. At this point, of course, like all conspiracies, it is feeding off itself. However, I am sure the member is aware\u2014he ought to be\u2014that in fact the current chief executive has ordered a full review of the operation of the Pacific branch of the Immigration Service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f5cbab80db048ae86bc8fab9b907f97\u0022\u003ERoading\u2014Waterview Connection\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270b32ea396a643f88435dfd328bb25a7\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Transport: Is Transit going to ensure that the fumes from the venting stacks of the proposed motorway tunnels project through Waterview in Auckland are filtered; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u0022a01d251ffa9640baaa2bceec4cd2f159\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a01d251ffa9640baaa2bceec4cd2f159\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Associate Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Transit\u2019s proposal to build twin tunnels to connect State Highway 20 at Mount Roskill with the north-western motorway at Waterview is only at a preliminary design stage. The community has recently been consulted on Transit\u2019s preferred option. The final design of any proposed ventilation system will be subject to international best practice and local consent processes, including compliance with the New Zealand air quality standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eac22f8aa94944d2a462393860163478\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that there is a school in close proximity to the proposed tunnel, and that that school, as well as others, is prohibited from incinerating rubbish in order to reduce emissions of tiny particles, yet Transit is considering building a chimney stack that is unfiltered; is that acceptable to the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fca59aed43fe4e919d1c48b16cdd3795\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed, I am. In fact, I met with Waterview School principal, Brett Skeen, and the board of trustees, together with Transit officials, about a fortnight ago to consider a range of issues around community consultation over this project. I was delighted at the agreement that was reached, that the local community will be consulted on all stages of design, and I expect that to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223813f92bfdcc4c11829b07e2ef8980d0\u0022\u003EDave Hereora\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to reduce vehicle emissions and improve air quality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022527155233e7b4dd3af9fde99258a3c6a\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has undertaken an extensive range of work to improve air quality from vehicles. This includes the 2007 vehicle emissions rule improving fuel qualities\u2014especially for diesel\u2014which introduces a visible smoke check at warrant of fitness level, and public education campaigns. The Government is also exploring further measures to reduce the level of harmful emissions, especially those from diesel vehicles. I make the point on this specific, that having the motorway at surface level would certainly not result in better air quality than having the tunnels. All of these issues are being investigated as this project proceeds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022844bf7215698407e9f1cc7e838730bd2\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister give a straight answer; is it satisfactory to her that billions of dollars can be spent on a tunnel, yet consideration can be given to building a chimney without a system for filtering air particles?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c8c641750e6498e843767ab7dfc589c\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: This project is at the design stage. Transit New Zealand works to the best international levels that it can find. Transit is aware of many tunnels around the world that have unfiltered systems and it is aware of one filtered tunnel system in Japan, but the filtering is actually to remove soot to improve the air quality within the tunnel, rather than to improve the air quality above the tunnel. All of these issues are being considered. Transit will work with the local authorities, including the Auckland Regional Council, which is responsible for air quality, and we will do our best to provide Auckland with a good motorway system and the people of Waterview with the cleanest air possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cda9784fe664157b0395aa2fe371239\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that the Minister has already met with the school, is she aware that there is huge public concern about this issue, and will she front up to a public meeting and explain what she has just explained to us in this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223085c0faff6540c5a1a14bb1e339b6a8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: Transit New Zealand reports that 75 percent of the people who responded to its proposal favoured the Waterview Connection tunnel proposal, 8 percent were neutral, and about 17 percent opposed the proposal. Transit New Zealand\u2019s board intends to have an open meeting in Auckland early next month to consider the submissions and the proposals. All of that will be in public. I am very happy to front at any stage, but I suggest that the best process is for the Transit New Zealand board to be open in its discussions as the design proceeds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242fdf25138074be3a4e18d44fc0209fb\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Following the admission of the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues during question No. 3 that transport emissions have stabilised and will presumably decline as the petrol price rises, at what point does the Government think that spending $2 billion on 4.5 kilometres of a motorway to Waterview is not cost-effective or of net benefit to the community, including the local school?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3daa5120c44ca6a336dc328815bb86\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is determined to provide Auckland with a decent public system of roading that will include busways, walkways, and cycleways. For the first time we have put social and environmental concerns into the road building process. Buses could well use these tunnels and, given that the vast majority of people consulted prefer the tunnel option because it will not destroy several suburbs as most of the National Party\u2019s motorway projects have, I think it is a great step forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002286133264d237466da0c993771c2731c4\u0022\u003EClimate Change\u2014Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb01cf6ed5a14907bb62ae2553a0fa54\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: Does he stand by his statement regarding climate change on Radio New Zealand\u2019s Checkpoint that \u201CI am absolutely clear, in my own mind, that I could make mistakes in a lot of my portfolio areas\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd250fa80b1c4c9da71693902126d8eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd250fa80b1c4c9da71693902126d8eb\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister for Economic Development)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: The Minister\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022524a1870f546417982595c5c65255728\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question has been asked; members are entitled to hear the reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b1895f133d45618177df0d8d6a2eef\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues has always known that he has feet of clay, unlike the member opposite, who believes he can walk on water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b9e6b40817a4a64a1eeb6b4eb0d498a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245a8ed5ecb3145e3bf0295787ba60019\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, we are back to silence. The question will be heard in silence, as will the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022604c09ab1d994038b68a194fd40e3d5c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Was it a mistake or the intent of the emissions trading legislation that the Government would get a windfall gain, as advised by officials, of between $6 billion and $22 billion from the sale of permits, at the expense of consumers and businesses, over the design period of the scheme; and of what benefit will any tax relief in the Budget be if it will be taken back through the emissions trading scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed29ac7e3536471790092998ce2126f0\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to the second part of the question is that the member will need to wait until next week. The answer to the first part of the question, I regret to advise, is that I do not know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a26dd9ee3944725b95f48e062b62777\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The issue of whether the Government makes a profit of between $6 billion and $22 billion was included in the Cabinet papers around the design of the emissions trading scheme. The member concerned is a member of the Cabinet, and I find it extraordinary for a Minister to say he simply does not know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281dbe64e227849199f1ebca77e99863c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister did address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229960ac0530354b9a99e2e45f53c8e82b\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Do the mistakes the Minister referred to include yesterday giving the House information on increased household costs arising from the emissions trading scheme that was based on a carbon price of around $25 per tonne, when the current secondary price is already around $35 a tonne and rising; and will he now concede that the figures he gave the House were less than half the actual increased costs that households are likely to bear, and that the real figure is nearer $25 to $30 a week rather than the $2 to $4 a week he told the House yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225adb29d3ed242e984c9effa818a568c\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I doubt that the figure will be anywhere near as high as that. But in respect of the future price of carbon, I would simply offer that at the moment there is more than one price around the world for carbon. This Government prefers to rely on Treasury advice in respect of the price of the carbon, and $35 is higher than that advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e700ae0ebdc345ad80d431f2b685c4f0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Was it a mistake, or was it intended that the emissions trading scheme require domestic refrigeration and heat pump manufacturers to have to pay for the considerable cost of synthetic refrigerants, but importers of overseas manufacturers\u2019 fridges and heat pumps with exactly the same synthetic refrigerants do not have to pay, which is a policy that will put at risk thousands of New Zealand jobs in companies like Temperzone, Fisher and Paykel, and Skope Industries; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a41da49fb3d496298d5822018335603\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The legislation is before the select committee. The member is on the select committee. The member may wish to take up that argument with other members of the select committee. That would be the best way for him to earn his salary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a3c643eb23346f2aa20e7a1968f9902\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister received regarding support for action on climate change in the form of an emissions trading scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e0d8db499a043709408f4ae8aa813f8\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Support for emissions trading continues to grow in New Zealand, and, in fact, continues to grow around the world. Only a day or two ago I was pleasantly surprised to learn that the likely Republican presidential candidate, John McCain, proposes a \u201Ccap and trade\u201D system, and wants to take it\u2014should he be elected to the presidency\u2014to the American political apparatus. And, of course, the recent change of Government in Australia means that Australia is now moving to an emissions trading scheme, which is scheduled to start in about 2 years\u2019 time. Federated Farmers, who are long-time opponents of many aspects of climate change policy, are now firmly of the view that they will support an \u201Call gases, all sectors\u201D approach to emissions trading. It is the National Party members who have not yet made the shift. They say they want to, but they always say that it is not perfect yet and more time is needed. They have been doing that since 1997, and it is time they stopped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccfaf582d37d433e83838ba44f6ccb02\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Was it an error, or was it intended that Holcim, a cement company that operates 27 cement plants within the European emissions trading system and one in New Zealand\u2019s emission trading system, would have to pay 16 times as much per tonne of carbon in New Zealand than it does under the European system; and what does he think the impact of this detailed design issue of the emissions trading scheme will do to that company\u2019s proposed half-billion-dollar investment in a far more efficient cement manufacturing facility in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240baa7f4a3ef4b55ad78fd5d764653e2\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: There they go again. The National Party members say they want to do something about climate change, only there is this problem that they say we need to fix, so that they can come up with the next problem for us to fix, and actually we never get anything done! Let me answer the question. The cement industry will face a reduction in its allotment of, if you will, freedom to emit emissions from 2019. That is 11 years from now. I suggest that members opposite, if they were fair in their thinking, would agree with me that by then we are almost certain to have a sector by sector approach globally in areas such as cement, because unless we do it that way, we almost certainly will never be able to bring in enough of the Third World in time. Only a week ago we pushed it out a further 5 years, to give more certainty to companies such as the one the member has just mentioned, but still he cannot stop bitching and grizzling about it, because in his heart he does not want anything to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbddded9b8c24dbda95433fcb50419c6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain how the global environment would benefit from the closure of the Bluff smelter, when 100 percent of the electricity used there is renewable, and if the plant was relocated to an area like South-east Asia, where the electricity is most likely to come from the burning of coal, we would have the scenario of New Zealand losing 1,000 jobs and an increase in global emissions\u2014how is that going to help things?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e66068ac8dd4490d84ca93e2da5db7fe\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have pretty much the same answer. I agree with the member that carbon leakage does not do anybody any good. I agree with the member; I understand that. But, you see, that is why the attempt has been made to strike a balance, so that the smelter does not begin\u2014begin\u2014a reduction in its free allocation until 2019. The smelter has been improving its efficiency for some years now, and it is doing a really good job of it. If it cannot make further efficiencies between now and 2019, I would be surprised. But, almost certainly, by then the aluminium smelters of the world will be subjected to some form of agreed regulatory world best-practice. One can smell it coming. So we can move ahead with the emissions trading regime now, wait until it starts to bite in 2019, and around about 2017 check back on the 2008 comments I have just made to see whether they were right. I reckon they will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be20fce8578c40beac98e37d1571a907\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Noting the Minister\u2019s earlier answer that John McCain, if he became President, would look favourably at an emissions trading scheme, that Kevin Rudd in Australia\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022506fb7318c3d4f669f42a22371785c0d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please just ask a question. You are prefacing it with statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c1cc4d958c24f1cbfe00373f40d00a2\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Noting the Minister\u2019s earlier answer along those lines, does it not make sense that New Zealand work in tandem with some of these countries, rather than try to lead the field; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f2500092d4641fe8514c7d0719df8b6\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have just been invited to work in tandem with Australia and the US. Here is a fact: only three Western countries have signed but not ratified. They are Monaco, Australia, and the US. They are the laggards. We were the 102nd country to ratify\u2014hardly leaders of the pack\u2014yet the member invites us to delay our progress still further. It is time we came to a decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8762bc6b4cc4e20800d6f2c2367e086\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the analysis by the Federation of M\u0101ori Authorities that the emissions trading scheme will provide a hit on the balance sheet of M\u0101ori of $2 billion; if not, what does he suggest the hit on the balance sheet of M\u0101ori will be, given that it has to be a positive number?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba86e05166c4466f8f954e48ae09e9fd\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I regret I do not have an answer to the member\u2019s question, but it is clear that M\u0101ori are big players, and getting to be bigger players, in the forestry sector, and, depending on the age of their trees, they can benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228795d33d761449b799e63c1acdec07bc\u0022\u003ECompetition Law\u2014Crown Companies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201bfae7d99bf49768dd02c3730a632f1\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN (Labour\u2014Rimutaka)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce: How is the Government changing competition law to promote effective use of public investment in Crown companies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00226a7c6f0137a048059d7e79c5e842eb72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a7c6f0137a048059d7e79c5e842eb72\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Commerce):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is announcing today our intention to amend the Commerce Act to allow State-owned enterprises and Crown research institutes to cooperate for mutual benefit under ministerial direction without being subject to the competition requirements in the Commerce Act. Although the Government recognises the general benefits of competition, this proposal was targeted at areas where a collaborative approach would be in the public interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c19a5b44454a4f5f8884796f5c6b99a8\u0022\u003EHon Paul Swain\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister advise how the Commerce Act currently provides for interconnected companies to collaborate without breaching the competition provisions of the Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb3992270bbe4d398fcd78ec792db530\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: The Act already allows interconnected private sector companies to work together, as they are treated as a single entity under the Act. This essentially exempts them from the prohibitions against anti-competitive behaviour. The Government\u2019s decision will see State-owned enterprises and Crown research institutes other than Meridian Energy, Mighty River Power, and Genesis Energy treated as interconnected bodies in terms of the Act. This is a very positive announcement in terms of the potential benefits of maximising cooperation within the public sector as currently occurs in the private sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002253d84ce2a8b84c21ae70e697ee9fc790\u0022\u003EBlue Lake Track\u2014Logging\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc78e76d7eb04c1ba125a49453a4d5c4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What will be the impact on the Department of Conservation\u2019s Blue Lake Track in Rotorua of the proposed logging of the 90-year-old Douglas Firs on the side of the lake?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u00224664ed6a8e5949558d295974bc052678\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224664ed6a8e5949558d295974bc052678\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E There is a track on the scenic reserve near the logging area and there will be some restrictions on public access during the logging for safety reasons. However, public access will be maintained during the evenings and the weekends and the scenic reserve itself will not be affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265a2b9fce24a4cc89dd9fecbe533fe49\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why, after the National Party candidate in Rotorua, Todd McClay, raised the issue publicly did the Minister issue a Government press release stating that she had been working for some time to resolve the issues, when in fact she had told constituents there was little that she could do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6794a22b40c4e03b58a3e217b21543a\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I have been working on this issue for some considerable time\u2014long before the National candidate was selected. I meet regularly with the district council, and on this issue we have been working to preserve access for recreational use of this beautiful iconic forest. That is my role as the MP for Rotorua, and I will continue to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265889b5a684e4e9683543aa579116161\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What did the Minister mean when she emailed a constituent, in response to devastating photos of the logging: \u201CGod, Ray, get the tree huggers there. There is little more that I can do.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022585ccc7c4a8d45e9bf460fdcd9d40c51\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that Nick Smith has been in the region just recently hugging a tree, so it is good to know he was there to support us on this issue, which is incredibly important to us in Rotorua. On this issue, that gentleman, as a recreational cyclist, works with me to try to ensure that we preserve access for walkers and mountain bikers into our beautiful Blue Lake, Green Lake, and Whakarewarewa Forest. That is my job as the MP for Rotorua and I will carry on doing it\u2014and I will be a tree hugger, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022941e724420384fadad184202a5b5b535\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What faith can New Zealanders have in their Minister of Conservation when confronted with the logging of 100-year-old trees on the Department of Conservation\u2019s very popular Blue Lake track at one of the most iconic tourism spots in New Zealand, and in her own electorate, when her response is: \u201CGod, Ray, get the tree huggers there. There is little more that I can do.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbca7b6932574958938d25bf025ec15c\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: This forest is managed by Timberlands forestry. It is interesting to see an Opposition member now saying that the Government should interfere in relation to forestry farmers felling trees selectively in our area that have grown around Rotorua for as long as I have been there. We are not in the business of telling an industry how to manage itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aed42140dfe4e1883e01154cac0a739\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think she has her ministerial priorities right when the very day she sent the email saying to get the tree huggers and that there was nothing she could do was the Friday prior to the Labour congress, when she was putting together the ditty for the congress attacking National leader, John Key; and does she think that if she were perhaps a little more focused on her electorate and ministerial duties we might have saved some of those trees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f6278b5d5294bedaab6e34630850919\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: I wish I could sing, as an MP, about the values of our fantastic community, which is working on preserving the values of the trees in our area, and also our pathways and recreational reserves. This logging is not happening on Department of Conservation land, let me correct the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bb2c31f64d64d3b807f7892b3400905\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the Conservation Act provides an advocacy role for the Minister, that Professor Hamilton from Waikato University has said that this pristine, iconic lake may die as a consequence of the runoff from the logging, and that the covenants, held by the Crown on the forest, state: \u201Cshall promote the natural and intrinsic values and landscape amenity of the forest\u201D; and, noting that, what specifically will she and her department do to ensure that these great trees are not lost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220868e5b83194488bb86e9739d63300c7\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: These trees are Douglas firs, and we need to be very clear on that issue. These Douglas firs have been grown for the purpose of forestry farming. We love these trees\u2014absolutely. I am not the Minister responsible for the covenant but I am the member for Rotorua, and am very much responsible for ensuring ongoing access to these cycleways and walkways, while at the same time working with the forestry company to know its forward-forestry management plans and making sure we can adjust our tracks. That is what I have done in respect of the mountain track users in our community. In terms of the water quality of the lake, I met last week with the chief executive of Environment Bay of Plenty, who assured me that the organisation is regularly monitoring the runoff into the water, as is its responsibility for monitoring lake-water quality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f9cb7b0cc284ea88e99234aea8fefd1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I have in my hand the email stating: \u201CGod, Ray, get the tree huggers there. There is little more that I can do. Cheers, Steve.\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea5a5629da2843a19622760908d9984e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member wish to table this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd996884185f4c7bb947ff446ed1a79d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table that email.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4a34d3e699d469b9d4b56d8ad8e0761\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a51217fe810b493696e55c83eecf5208\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the harvesting operation plan, which shows that this operation is not on Department of Conservation land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229bed9291b12c4a378a6a4ac937f8a2c6\u0022\u003EHome-based Support Workers\u2014Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221830d4989dc744079c4cac76a8f660a5\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: What recent announcements has she made regarding funding for home-based support workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00229f854514220443a899c1ade41d803f47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f854514220443a899c1ade41d803f47\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to have recently announced that in Budget \u201808 this Labour-led Government will allocate an additional $46.5 million over 4 years to support injured New Zealanders, affecting some 14,000 claims a year. This additional money will fund non-agency providers of home-based support, who are predominantly friends and family members of injured people who have given up parts of their own lives in order to care for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d118519be0e64bc3b5b7ca291d542873\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: How does this additional funding build on previous increases in funding for the home-based support sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4aba1d9f3814587ab02db0c7e2235f8\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: In February, contracted home-support workers received a funding boost of an additional $25 million a year. Both of these increases ensure that carers\u2019 pay rates are fair, and they will also encourage more stability in the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022005b482630f448b99bec642417d94a75\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister not aware of many complaints that home-based support workers are opting to exit the sector, despite the so-called extra funding, due to many of them not being able to comprehend the changes that were introduced to make them independent contractors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290d719be813f4d32a3456f7062c19bba\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: The increase for non-contracted caregivers represents a substantial improvement on their rates of pay. It is designed particularly to improve low pay, and to improve the retention of those workers in that sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002217496144fbe948daaee9a4fa69c285a7\u0022\u003EImmigration Service\u2014Policy Breaches\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229443a6d40d34f3aadb2e6afc183abdb\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Are breaches of Government immigration policy by his own department a matter of responsibility for the Minister of Immigration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002240ae0c28554345c8bf8a15d16230bb75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240ae0c28554345c8bf8a15d16230bb75\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E As the Minister of Immigration I am responsible for determining policy direction. Where immigration policy is incorrectly applied by staff\u2014for example, when an immigration officer approves an application that does not meet policy\u2014it is not the policy that is wrong; rather, the officer\u2019s actions exceed his or her authority. This is a performance matter, which is the responsibility of the chief executive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227781972b6bd4d71a7127991f45d4d9f\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. In asking this next question, I wish to quote a wee bit of the Oughton report, and because bits of it have been deleted, I have to make reference to missing bits. I will use the words \u201Cblanked out\u201D, so that my question makes sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224850eeef902f494cbf9fd078e2e71593\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271055f42805c470d99989c66faf189e5\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that the Oughton report, as released, states: \u201CThe [blanked out] and a national office [blanked out] were directly involved in instructing staff at the PAC branch to override the policy.\u201D; if so, what action did the Minister take to ensure that his Government\u2019s policy was being implemented appropriately?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221583f54ed0af4072a4a6a80895185a5f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The Oughton report speaks for itself. What action did I take? As Minister, I was briefed on 14 December 2007 by the chief executive, for the first time. I expressed my concerns to him, but I also noted, quite properly, that these were employment matters, which pertain to his responsibility. The chief executive\u2014new at the time\u2014took my concern seriously. He advised me that he was looking into the matter himself, and that he had informed the State Services Commissioner of the issues. Therefore, at the time there was no need to engage the State Services Commissioner\u2014he was already on to it. The chief executive subsequently advised me that he had taken legal advice from Crown Law as to whether, if he was of a mind to reopen the matter, he had the ability to do so. As a result, the chief executive was advised that the matter had occurred, been dealt with, and been closed by previous chief executives, and in the absence of new information he was legally precluded from reopening the matter. I finally ask the member to note that section 33 of the State Sector Act requires chief executives to act independently on individual employment matters, and, explicitly, that chief executives are \u201Cnot \u2026 responsible to the appropriate Minister\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b550794cdf24c74aa9428db63c4009f\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that under the Immigration Act only the Minister of Immigration can grant residence to people who do not meet Government policy requirements; if so, why did he do nothing when confronted with clear evidence that his department was usurping his ministerial authority, as detailed in the Oughton report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e621831238354a779b12d700cb989a2c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: In danger of being shrill, I will repeat what I said before and add to it. When advised of the matters on 14 December, I expressed concern to the chief executive, but I noted that these were explicit employment matters, and were for him to deal with. He was in contact with the State Services Commissioner at that point. He then engaged Crown Law to advise him whether he could reopen the matter; he could not. Subsequently, when the Oughton report was released\u2014again, under section 33 of the State Services Act it could not be demanded by me or released to me\u2014there were wider issues. At that point I asked\u2014through the Minister\u2014the State Services Commissioner to look at both the Thompson issue and the wider issues around it. Subsequent to that, the chief executive on 17 April initiated a review of the full Pacific branch, and, subsequent to that, we now have the State Services Commissioner referring to the police matters that it is not appropriate for me to comment on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225092cba99cfd4be89a150ae226faf9e6\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister expect this House to believe his claim that this is just an employment matter, when the department was totally ignoring Government policy in terms of immigration policy requirements, and when his department was making illegal decisions; is the Minister claiming that he is not in any way accountable for his department ignoring Government policy and making illegal decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7783a5a4ae24f0fb2c20444270225ba\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The beliefs of that member are his and his alone. He quotes the whole of the department, as if there is some sort of clandestine conspiracy. We now know that one individual acted, and has resigned. We also know that the Oughton report identified that perhaps there were other issues, and we know that I at that point, having first seen the Oughton report at that point, engaged the State Services Commissioner, which is the appropriate course of action. If the member is saying that I, as Minister, should break the law\u2014breach section 33 of the State Sector Act\u2014and place my fingers firmly within employment and individual matters, then I say this to him: I will not break the law, but we know what he would do if he ever had the chance to become Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245341d12c1054b0f8c28180aa3aba3bd\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that had the matter of Mary Anne Thompson\u2019s immigration assistance to her family members not been made public by Television New Zealand (TVNZ), he would have taken no further action to deal with key officials in his department breaching Government policy and making illegal decisions on immigration matters? In other words, he would have supported a cover-up, and the only reason why anything has happened is TVNZ made it public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280b55bbdca6248d09cae47a36a8b44f1\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I will do it more slowly this time. When I first was privileged enough to see the Oughton report, which I could not demand to see\u2014and which the member has demanded that I release, in breach of the law\u2014at that point, given the wider issues contained within it, I asked the State Services Commissioner to become involved and investigate the matter. The member knows this as I have told him that legal advice was sought as to whether the matter could be reopened by the chief executive. That legal advice clearly told the chief executive he could not reopen it. The report was released, and I engaged the State Services Commissioner. I cannot see how anything could be covered up when we have a number of inquiries going on, and when I was first informed of the issue at a time when the new chief executive had already been in touch with the State Services Commissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d4a94e98a634a93ac6ac634be5f05bf\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, did the Minister allow his department to fight so hard against the public release of the Oughton report, and why did his department, instead of releasing that Oughton report, contract a private consultancy public relations firm to try to spin this issue to the public?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022def2d0ae340f492b946897e7ac15dd84\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: My advice is that the department did not fight against releasing the Oughton report. The advice I have from the chief executive, because\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fff7e7d918ac43e9a0db75b0bcc06c6a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members wish to hear the answer. Please continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa5661898144eaf8f61e94942385b48\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022010d6e15bea34cfeb823ccbf9463aaeb\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: We want some honest answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdad02906f9d4a18a726c908265d1119\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Members either want the answer or not. The advice I have is that the Official Information Act request was to the department, not to the Minister, because it was about employment matters. The new chief executive, Mr Blake, took due time to look at it, took due time to examine it, and it was subsequently released in a form that was correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229710fa269f034115b75535754c9da8e9\u0022\u003ECarers\u2014Tax Changes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f19bfa9769ec4495b033c4cf7d219450\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: What feedback has she received from clients and caregivers on the decision to withhold tax on attendant care, home help, and childcare payments made by the Accident Compensation Corporation, which will come into effect on 1 July 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00225bf65877d23d41488ca24da55a0178d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bf65877d23d41488ca24da55a0178d1\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E I have had some concerns raised with me. However, the previous tax situation was inequitable and uncertain, and this administrative change should ensure that all carers are being treated equally while at the same time making it easier for them to fulfil their tax obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248135afa3aeb4f2baee77b27227c9cb2\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: Were all caregivers and clients involved in attendant care relationships personally advised that their status has changed to that of being self-employed, and will the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) increase the payments to cover all the additional costs imposed, such as GST, fringe benefit tax, PAYE, accountants\u2019 fees, and administration, or is this another attempt by the Government to increase the tax take?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f444b25e6a72479da898a962e11a6512\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: The truth of the matter is that informal carers have always been obliged, as is everyone, to pay tax on their income. The administrative change that has happened has ensured that this will occur via ACC. It is an administrative change brought about by the Inland Revenue Department legislation. However, at the same time, this Government has seen fit, quite separately, to increase the rates of pay to carers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9874659b27042d3bf10b94ff83d92eb\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: What support is the Labour-led Government providing to the sector to ensure caregivers such as those cited in the primary question are paid adequately?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022346424356272415d806c820756506313\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: As I informed the House a moment ago, Budget 2008 will allocate an additional $46.5 million over 4 years to fund non-agency providers of home-based care. This, in fact, moves the hourly rates from $11.28 to $13.82 for level 1 care, and from $13.54 to 16.59 for level 2 care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f15a4896a90c45929e3d4f6da8b6d627\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: What action will the ACC take to ensure that accident compensation clients and caregivers will not be faced with retrospective tax deductions on ACC attendant care payments made prior to the tax changes being introduced, which now treat all ACC attendant care payments as income rather than compensation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b963572864324f51894418bc78ced70d\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: It is not the ACC\u2019s job to gather taxation or to pursue any tax that has not been paid previously. The administrative process in place now is to require the ACC to withhold tax at source and thereafter remit it to the Inland Revenue Department. That is the only change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022522c24a959b9465094dccf1332ab89ba\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: What response will the Minister make to a client who has written to the M\u0101ori Party, advising us that she receives ACC payments to enable her to care for her son whose disability was caused by an adverse medical event, that she receives these payments not as income earned from being employed to do a job, and that the potential threat of being required to register for GST in order to meet provisional tax obligations and other requirements may, in fact, jeopardise her ability to take care of her son?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e69579ef6a54d5b8490d4d0e824e3bc\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: I would be very happy to respond to that particular case if the member referred it to me. The truth, again, of the matter is that informal carers are paid; they are paid via the person who is the injured person. They are paid to provide that service, and there are ordinary taxation rules that apply accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284ab59740b1f41648b2fa864e844556b\u0022\u003EHospitals\u2014Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e56f6853b9c844e49b45aec433ea9d4c\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he have any concerns about the safety of provincial hospitals; if so, which ones?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00229cd221f872064d598b68dcff53aef3d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cd221f872064d598b68dcff53aef3d9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I always treat allegations about patient safety seriously. All complex systems are capable of improvement, but I am satisfied that our hospitals are among the safest in the world. However, for example, I am aware of allegations that have recently been made at the West Coast District Health Board. The district health board and, at my request, the Ministry of Health are investigating this as a matter of urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5fb102e5df24bf3ad1dc34e7826f1da\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the health system so failed that a senior doctor at Grey Base Hospital was forced to advise her board that the hospital cannot guarantee patient safety as most systems have broken down, and that patient care is at times dangerous?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3dd38ab97c2429492499dbe516aa197\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: While we take all complaints of this nature very seriously, the fact that a clinician has laid a complaint in a hospital does not amount to any sort of system failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222d1c50a2da7474ca085d4036a459fda\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister advise the House what he is doing to ensure quality and safety in our hospitals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c816392e77014ad4b3389fb57ddbd7b9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has moved the health system from the previous Government\u2019s obsession with the financial bottom line to one where quality and safety matter most. Since becoming Minister I have sent strong messages to the district health boards to this effect and introduced a mechanism whereby district health board funding is tied to quality performance. I have accelerated work on system safety through the regional collaboration in clinical networks across district health board boundaries, have strengthened the work of the quality improvement committee, and have facilitated an agreement with senior doctors that allows us to engage them in the quality and safety agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e7ea01b770c4b639c806dbc489884ab\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that Palmerston North Hospital is facing financial problems because of strikes, staff shortages, and a sewerage leak, and is he concerned about the impact of these on patient safety at this provincial hospital; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b1a7d2da6a4e8798b9f06e9d74b956\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware that senior clinicians at Palmerston North Hospital have categorically rejected claims by the Resident Doctors Association that the hospital was in danger of closure around the time of the previous strike. I would add, however, that the situation of strikes in the health system is far from ideal, and any disruption to patient safety or scheduling is a matter of some concern. However, in the case of the junior doctors it would be of equal concern to see a settlement in the order of 40 percent, which would only set off a further round of wage claims across the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221de6364cebf74bf7b12175efeb7912c1\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: What assurances can he give to the people of the West Coast when Dr Forbes says that waiting lists for operations have been taken off doctors and nurses and been given to the information technology department without any clinical supervision, resulting in patients being put on the waiting list for the wrong operation with the wrong anaesthetic, patients prepped for the wrong operation, and a man needing a knee replacement was booked for a dental procedure; how can that be safe care for the patients of the West Coast?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b534aa190c543deb36ec6f20efc0bdb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: It is normally the member who has foot and mouth problems. But the assurance I can give West Coast constituents is that we are taking these claims seriously, and that an urgent review has been mounted. I suggest that the member opposite, rather than get hysterical, should wait for the outcome of that report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ee2d167bbc74c5191c50fd5829ae2a4\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What assurance is the Minister able to give the people of the West Coast now, that our hospital in Greymouth is in fact safe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1f88a9b96f04e3291f67b60828866cf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: It is very nice to hear from that member. The assurances I can give him are that all the proper processes are in place to treat Dr Forbes\u2019 allegations very seriously, that an urgent review is under way, that contact has already commenced between the chief medical adviser of the Ministry of Health, Dr Forbes, and the district health board, and that my chief medical adviser will very shortly be travelling to Greymouth to further that inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206da8614f02f4ebd91e5ac4bcb3d49b3\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister consider it satisfactory that hospitals need to constantly upgrade contingency plans in order to cope with possible strikes, including deferring non-urgent surgery and discharging patients early, and that under these circumstances patient safety will eventually be compromised in every hospital in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229683de42325d43dc8cdc0413be33a6b8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in response to the member\u2019s previous question, any event, such as a strike, that disrupts patient scheduling or potentially impacts on safety is of significant concern. However, I am not aware of any particular safety crises that have arisen during the course of the last two strikes. I would reiterate, however, that of equal or greater concern would be a settlement in the order of 40 percent. That would set off a whole new round of claims throughout the sector, and I call upon both sides to take a long-term view of the good of the health system as they progress those negotiations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239306dacc5774d93b4c88cf75603a196\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not an indictment of Labour that after its 8 years in office the West Coast health infrastructure is still being run down by bureaucrats who keep pushing doctors and nurses aside?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af72d836fbda4383baad9a51822e82f6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: No. This is a Government that has doubled public investment in the health system, including that on the West Coast. The member may have some aversion to \u201Cbureaucrats\u201D, but I can assure him that both the managers and the clinicians in the health system give of their very best to ensure that patients are treated well, in the interests of all people\u2019s health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002229943bacd65d4f96a66f23b0cf8fc9d3\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002288885050bf274ac5b4042d7a3e78f8e5\u0022\u003EClimate Change (Emissions Trading and Renewable Preference) Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d6e1cdddecf4ae3a68822879d8e991f\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee: How many submissions has the Finance and Expenditure Committee heard in the last week on the Climate Change (Emissions Trading and Renewable Preference) Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d495aca4df9f4f3b98be944b8626215f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d495aca4df9f4f3b98be944b8626215f\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The Finance and Expenditure Committee has sat on four occasions in the last week: once in Auckland and three times in Wellington, including this morning\u2019s meeting. We have heard 93 submissions during that week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ab303c50da94541a4332823171d9e1b\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What consultation was there with the select committee over the Government\u2019s decision to defer liquid fuels for 2 years and to change the phase-out of timing for allocations because of competitiveness issues; if none, what steps did the member take as chair to ensure the work of the select committee was not being reduced to a farce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226564c23abbea47cc81ff8d2dc7e186d1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The member knows that questions to members should relate to procedure, not to matters of substance or policy. I am quite happy for the member to rephrase the question, but the chair is not responsible for the work of the committee; he is responsible for the process. That is very clear in Speakers\u2019 rulings and the Standing Orders. Please rephrase the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292d81f9ce4a643c7a1c710b4f4d41dae\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Part of the process of the committee was actually a discussion and decisions around how that process would be conducted, given that the Government was still involved in policy considerations around emissions trading. The committee decided that in fact the process would mean that the committee would be kept absolutely informed of Government decisions that affected the committee\u2019s process. That is what I am asking the chair about\u2014was the committee informed, because our process was very much affected\u2014and that is what I was interested in having an answer to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022532aa3811dfc49f1800d88940eb4905c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have ruled on the matter. I am happy to take it under consideration and to look at it further. And I invite the member, if he has another supplementary question, to ask it. If not, we have come to the end of the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208ce2078a42748b694dcf6eac2c6ceb7\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: OK, Madam Speaker. With your indulgence I will try my luck with a further supplementary question, then. How can the Government, noting that Dr Cullen said yesterday that this was a massively complicated piece of legislation, expect Parliament to get it right, when major submitters, with over a hundred pages of written evidence to the select committee and evidence involving tens of thousands of jobs for New Zealanders, were scheduled only 15 minutes in which to make detailed submissions and receive the questions of the committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022828b66ad8efb4654b7d51ec6d4d70f3b\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: The overwhelming view reported to me as chair from submitters is that they feel they have had good hearings in front of the committee. By way of example, I tell the House that of the 93 submitters I mentioned in the answer to the primary question, only 15 received a hearing time of 10 minutes or less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d28d5b69f6d14a8ca3ffb869c574c280\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002264fa3c1c9c7a430f9002b92eb63a86ee\u0022\u003EGrey Base Hospital\u2014Patient Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce7d907c77cf4a31a62b51a8da516a35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce7d907c77cf4a31a62b51a8da516a35\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Hon Tony Ryall seeking to debate under Standing Order 380 the safety of and risks to patients at the Grey Base Hospital, and the decision to send a senior doctor from Middlemore Hospital to investigate patient safety. For there to be a particular case of recent occurrence there must be a new situation of importance or a new development in the existing situation of sufficient importance in itself to warrant the debate being held. The decision to send a senior doctor from Middlemore Hospital to investigate patient safety is a particular case of recent occurrence involving the administrative responsibility of the Government. However, this is merely the announcement of a decision to conduct an investigation, and I do not believe that it requires the immediate attention of the House today. There will be other opportunities to debate the matter, especially as the House is about to debate the financial reviews of Crown entities, public organisations, and State-owned enterprises this afternoon. The application is therefore declined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022815ce718f999426184102b9529448e49\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022600a02af4a6b4b32bc3c20e38945f75c\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022558b16a8d67049e4bd7e4894b3dacc95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022558b16a8d67049e4bd7e4894b3dacc95\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. I want to take members through some of the highlights of the Labour Government last week. It started with the shock announcement of 29,000 job losses and an even more shocking statement by Ruth Dyson, the Minister of Social Development and Employment, that 29,000 shock job losses was \u201Cnot bad news\u201D. I suppose it was not, except for the 29,000 people who lost their jobs. Then there was the knee-jerk back-down on the emissions trading scheme. The Labour Government gave away its main sustainability platform just last week, amid anger from its core support base in M\u0101oridom that the emissions trading scheme would knock hundreds of millions of dollars off the value of assets they had received as Treaty settlements. And that is in only a couple of days. Then there is the prospect that the Government is losing the support of its coalition partners, which are just busting to break ranks on unpopular legislation so that they can survive the election. And then we saw, in the last few days, the competent, best-ever, managerially brilliant politicians in the Labour Government scrambling over revelations of a cover-up of an immigration scam it has known about for 3 years that implicates three or four of its Ministers and has one of its members in front of the courts on corruption charges. And apparently everything is going fine! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe only good thing is that Helen Clark has left the country, to leave Michael Cullen to face the music on a Government in meltdown. But those are only the small details of what has gone wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb6c80fd96624a84bca563c8b5bb612d\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: The train set.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217756d89b5a741558d09811a239f03e3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I forgot. There is the revelation that it will cost taxpayers several hundred millions more to buy a train company that we did not need to buy, because the Minister of Finance either was deceitful and did not tell us the numbers or was incompetent because he did not know the numbers. But who cares? It is only a billion dollars of taxpayers\u2019 money, and what is a few hundred million dollars between Dr Cullen and his new friend Paul Little, who has walked all over us and added a quarter of a billion dollars to the Australian shareholders in the rail company because Dr Cullen says that he does not want to pay them a subsidy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222062bd9979b64f3aa7e0fe77bb279c8c\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: The cupboard will be bare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ad873dd6d0d44dea242653c4e3cc0b8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The cupboard will be bare. But the worst news is this. Last night the Australian Government racked up competition for the talent of every New Zealander with any aspiration by locking in tax cuts\u20143 more years of tax cuts after 5 years of tax cuts that have already been put in place. Do members know what else it did? It locked in 3 years of tax cuts to the value of $31 billion and then it added a fourth year of a further $15 billion to its already 3-year tax cut programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWhat has little old New Zealand been doing? It has been lying around on the beach, sunning itself, while Dr Cullen composes his brilliantly anguished speeches about why he has to give tax cuts. But the social democrat in him means that he will do it in a way that guarantees he loses the election because then he can feel morally justified about making working New Zealanders go 10 years with no tax cuts while Australian workers are getting 8 years of tax cuts and another one added on to the end of it, which is bigger than anything they have had before. That is the difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ESo it is true. Australia wants New Zealanders working in Australia more than the Labour Government wants New Zealanders working here. Dr Cullen has this bizarre analysis that somehow we solve New Zealand\u2019s literacy and numeracy problem by exporting people to Australia. He says that the ones who go are functionally innumerate. That is how he describes them. So the ones who cannot count leave the place\u2014apparently; according to Labour\u2014to go to a Government that is competing vigorously for our talent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac5963fdd92843bd9258842745415187\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac5963fdd92843bd9258842745415187\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Would the National members please tell the Government why they have voted against every tax cut this Government has put forward? Why was it, when we came up with Working for Families and all of the tax credits associated with that, that they bolted and voted against it? Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of families are benefiting\u2014against the wish of the National Party. Why, when the KiwiSaver scheme came in\u2014which now has more than half a million people belonging to it\u2014and those massive tax changes came into place, did the National Party decide to vote against it? Why, when we decided to give tax cuts to businesses, did National members vote against that? When we said that the 33c tax rate needed to come down to 30c, they voted against it. Why, when we said that we would have a research and development tax credit of 15 percent, did those members vote against that? Why, in the 8\u00BD years of this Government, every time we have decided to make it easier for savers, businesses, or families, have those members voted against it? Why do they say that this Government never changes tax rates and never goes for tax cuts, yet every time we have done it they have voted against it? Why do they continue to do that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI think I have worked out why those members are so obsessed by the buy-back of the rail carriages. I reckon that I have worked out why they did not want us to buy out Toll, and I think it is to do with John Key\u2019s history. In 1993 the then National Government sold New Zealand Rail. It sold the locomotives, it sold the wagons, and it sold the track. It was a disastrous privatisation. What we now know is that the Wellington branch of the Bankers Trust was the vendor\u2019s adviser. It clipped the ticket to the tune of probably $3 million or $4 million\u2014that is the reported estimate. What has not been made very clear is that John Key worked for the vendor\u2019s adviser. John Key worked for the Bankers Trust, the vendor\u2019s adviser, in 1993. He rose to lead its foreign exchange desk. He rose to have some position called treasurer within the Bankers Trust. He would have been in his 30s. He would have been surrounded by the purchasers. Who were they? They were Fay and Richwhite. Do members remember those names? That was where John the trader was at that time. So he probably thought it was a pretty good privatisation. He probably thought that he had done a pretty good job, whatever it was, on his part as he worked for the Bankers Trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThat is why, all these years later, when it comes full circle, everyone in New Zealand thinks that it is a good idea to have an integrated train system, to have an integrated rail network, and to have better control over our land transport system, and John Key says that is \u201Cbuying back the train set\u201D. And Bill English, in the remarks he has just made, again misquotes and misrepresents the price paid. He does it on purpose because National members do not like it. They do not like the idea of the Government owning something that John Key had a hand in selling. That is the truth of it. You see, that is because John Key is the trader. Open up John Key and what do we have underneath? We have ourselves a trader. First and foremost, he is always a trader. He comes into politics and he thinks that politics is about trading. He does not think about political philosophy, he does not think about making a stand and debating his position\u2014whatever it is\u2014in the spectrum. He thinks about trading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThat is why National has been swallowing dead rats for the last 12 months\u2014trading policy changes for votes. Those members have decided that they will not do the things they really think they would like to do, like selling assets, even though, deep down, they really want to. That is why there are splits and divisions right through the National Party caucus. Actually, I will just sit with asset sales, which will do as an example. Richard Worth wants to partially privatise everything; David Carter wants to privatise but only Landcorp; and Tony Ryall, when he last had the chance to do privatisation, privatised so quickly that his leader, the former Prime Minister Jenny Shipley, said one day, rather mischievously \u201COh, I wonder what Tony has sold today.\u201D You see, they are really privatisers at heart, but John Key, the trader, says \u201COh, the public don\u2019t like it so we will inoculate them against that particular predilection that we have. Our proclivity will remain under the radar. We will be a very small target. We will simply run the clock down to the election and see whether we can fool them.\u201D Well, we have got news for the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4dc9e599811499ba6ec7d0d152f7083\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4dc9e599811499ba6ec7d0d152f7083\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Yesterday was a down day. The Minister for Social Development and Employment warned the nation last week that employment figures were likely to go up and down over the next 18 months, and down they went. Tragically, yesterday morning the 466 staff at the \u014Cringi meatworks in Dannevirke realised the full effect of that warning when the PPCS company\u2019s \u201Cright-sizing programme\u201D resulted in the closure of the works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ELast week\u2019s downers took place in the Coromandel where Carter Holt Harvey dismantled 145 jobs on the spot at its K\u014Dp\u016B sawmill, and in Whangarei where Tenix Shipbuilding let 60 jobs go. Before that, there were down days in Mosgiel as 450 jobs disappeared from Fisher and Paykel. Another 50 jobs were lost when Tamahine Knitwear closed its doors; a possible 150 jobs were lost in Ashburton when Design Line shut up shop; and a massive 11,300 jobs were lost from the construction industry, almost 6,000 from manufacturing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EIn fact, there have been an awful lot of down days in recent times, so much so that the latest quarterly employment survey has demonstrated a decline in the number of people in jobs on a scale that has been unprecedented and unseen since 1989. If there was any doubt at all that we are experiencing some pretty dismal days in the job stakes, the economists removed any question. ASB Bank chief economist Nick Tuffley described the job figures as \u201Cvery grim\u201D. New Zealand Council of Trade Unions economist Peter Conway said he had heard of employers in Te Waipounamu who are regularly seeing close to 100 hopefuls turning up for job interviews, whereas in other years they would be lucky to get five applicants. Westpac chief economist Brendan O\u2019Donovan called the statistics an \u201Cabsolute shocker\u201D and described them as \u201Cextraordinarily weak\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EAlthough New Zealanders and all the commentators and economists are worried about the loss of some 29,000 jobs, the Minister in charge had the audacity to say \u201CThis is not a dramatic change if we look at the overall picture.\u201D Even worse, she said \u201CI don\u2019t think that this is bad news at all, actually.\u201D Well, try saying \u201CActually, it\u2019s not bad news.\u201D to the workers of Dannevirke\u2014the families who are now struck by another blow in the wake of last year\u2019s closure of Norsewear and the closure of the Feltex Carpets plant in 2006. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThese figures are all down and no up. But where things begin to get really grim is when we look at the differences and the disparities between groups of New Zealanders. I refer to New Zealanders whose unemployment rates shot up to 8.6 percent and 8.2 percent respectively\u2014M\u0101ori and Pasifika New Zealanders. It is a pretty significant contrast to other groups of New Zealanders\u2014Europeans sit at a rate of 3 percent compared with 8.6 percent for M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party has sat in this House for 2\u00BD years and it has been reminded every day of the gigantic gaps that still exist after this Parliament decided it was no longer fashionable to talk about closing the gaps. We have sat witness to report after report that shows little or no progress in the alleviation of social and economic deprivation for certain groups of New Zealanders. We wonder when they will enjoy the fruits of the economic growth that the Minister alludes to as \u201Cthe ups of the cycle\u201D. When will we see the equitable distribution of wealth that will raise the standard of living of all individuals in this country, especially those on lower incomes? How long does this nation have to wait before the gross disparity between the employment prospects of M\u0101ori and Pasifika peoples and other New Zealanders is removed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe good news we are all waiting for is the announcement of a Government that cares and will take up the urgent social, legal, and constitutional imperative of fundamental change in order to end these injustices. Until that day comes, we will be forever relegated to the status of a nation in a position that is extraordinarily weak, an utter shocker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229d652cde95344da4bfaa9cc2c6710db5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d652cde95344da4bfaa9cc2c6710db5\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E It was sad to observe in the House this afternoon the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, on behalf of the Minister of State Services, defending what has to be the indefensible. The circumstances surrounding the resignation of Dr Mary Anne Thompson from the Immigration Service are backgrounded by not only the Government\u2019s knowledge of what was going wrong in that department, but its deliberate attempts to cover it up and to keep it from the people of New Zealand. Let us just go back for a minute and look at what happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EFirstly, the allegations that Dr Thompson had been putting pressure on staff inside her department to give approvals to her relatives and friends to gain residence in this country date back to late 2005. The then head of the Department of Labour, which is the over-body for the Immigration Service, called in those people who were making the allegations and concluded that there had to be some further investigation. He instructed Mr David Oughton to conduct that investigation and received an interim report on the matter in May of 2007. He received the final report on that matter in July of 2007. We are told, through the press and through comments made by other Ministers, that the Minister of Immigration saw that report in July of 2007. The Minister at the time was the Hon David Cunliffe and he chose to do nothing. When he was replaced, moved on, the Hon Clayton Cosgrove picked up that report in December. Still there was nothing done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt was not until the Television New Zealand journalists started getting the information themselves from people who had been affected by these activities and did the investigations both here and in Kiribati that the full extent of what had been going on and, more important, what had been covered up by the Government were laid as the bare facts before the public. At that point the Prime Minister, going into panic mode almost, decided that it probably was a good idea to have a further investigation. She noted that the Hon Clayton Cosgrove was making investigations in that regard and that he was keeping his colleagues informed. She very skilfully also said that she was \u201Csimply an onlooker\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ELet us just step back a little bit to work out how this all should come together. Firstly, when a chief of a department comes to a Minister and says \u201CI am getting an investigation conducted on a senior civil servant in my department.\u201D, what would we expect that Minister to do? We would expect that Minister at least to notify the State Services Commission. But apparently we are supposed to believe that that never happened. When the final report is received, we would expect that the Minister, on being told that the investigations had been concluded, that there were some problems, and that there was some action being taken, might then want to have a closer look at the entire division in which those activities had been taking place, that Cabinet might have been informed, that the Minister of State Services might have been informed, and that the State Services Commissioner might have been informed. But apparently that did not happen because all the time the Minister was wanting us to accept that this was an operational matter, not a matter of policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI would like to recall for the House the fact that this is the department that not so long ago offered the advice to its various employees that if they were all to lie in unison, then they would never be caught.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe Government knows this, and the flags should have been up. It would appear we now have a number of people in the country who are here quite illegally, yet no further action has been taken by the Government. The worst of it is that the Hon Clayton Cosgrove came into the House today and tried to make out that there had been total transparency in this all the way through. Here is the question for him and the next Labour speaker: if this Government has handled this all so well and in a way that is totally honest, then why did it take an appeal to the Ombudsman to get the Oughton report released in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u00229419b4ef05364f0b9bd6c7be9d0c16c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229419b4ef05364f0b9bd6c7be9d0c16c4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, 13 May, was a significant date for National Party members of Parliament. The National Party was formed 72 years ago, in 1936. One would think that a party that was 72 years old would know what it was doing and would have a consistent policy. I am privileged to be the education Minister in a Labour-led Government\u2014a Government that has endowed education over the last 8 years as it has never been supported before. We in Labour believe that education is the pathway to maximising the potential of individuals and to building a strong economy and a strong society. We have had an enormous number of initiatives in education during the time of the Labour-led Government. I come back to my opening comment that one would think that the National Party\u201472 years old yesterday, and approaching an election in about 6\u00BD or 7 months\u2019 time\u2014would have a consistent policy. It is a party that is 72 years old. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003ELet me share with the House some of the conflicting and confusing positions of the National Party. Let us take the 20 free hours policy, which the Labour Government introduced for all 3 and 4-year-olds in New Zealand. It was a revolution in early childhood education. We believe that setting a child as early as possible on an education path that has quality, safe early childhood education boosts that child\u2019s chances of a successful education for life. What was the National Party\u2019s position on the 20 free hours policy? It was a very confused position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EWe had Mr Key\u2014\u201DMr Flip-flop\u201D\u2014addressing a gathering of people in west Auckland, which is in the area he represents but of course does not live in. We all know in this House that Mr Key lives in a multimillion-dollar house in Parnell but represents people on the far western fringes of Auckland. In one of the rare visits he made to his electorate he visited a group of parents concerned about early childhood education in Massey, and he said that he was for the 20 free hours policy. However, later, within weeks of that statement, he said \u201COnce again, the Government\u2019s own documents show the \u201820 hours free\u2019 promise is nothing more than a cruel hoax played out on unsuspecting New Zealand parents.\u201D Mr English, his sidekick\u2014although, I think, not his friend\u2014said that in National they oppose the 20 free hours. I have to say that Katherine Rich, who was at that time National\u2019s education spokesperson, had a different view altogether and came out in support of the policy. Paula Bennett, who sometimes speaks on this issue, has of course flip-flopped from one position to another. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EBulk funding is another very interesting and controversial education issue. Mr Peachey, who is a relatively new National MP representing the Tamaki electorate, and former principal from the North Shore of Auckland, is a great advocate of bulk funding. He said in this House that the abolition of bulk funding was a tragedy. He went on further to attest and witness that he was personally very solidly committed to it. The official National Party spokesperson on education at that time, Ms Rich, said that bulk funding was not on National\u2019s agenda. Mr English, on the other hand, said \u201CNo ifs, no buts, and no fighting in school communities over whether to have it. Everyone is going to bulk funding.\u201D Early childhood education is a policy and a programme that was rejected by National, then supported by National, then rejected, then supported again. Just like bulk funding, there were two different positions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EWhat was the position of members of the women\u2019s caucus of the National Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261ecfd61122141918e50837c0b2d6526\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: They haven\u2019t got one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c292210b9b934a94b1aee5f568fc4cc0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I think they have a small one\u2014much smaller than Labour\u2019s, of course. National list MP Paula Bennett, one of my constituents, I think, in west Auckland, called the 20 free hours policy a cruel hoax and said it was in ruins. Funnily enough, 79 percent of eligible children have now signed up for early childhood\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f047c999fd74ab49712202d1213bd32\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a32c3c9207411494ca833277f246ad\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, but I suggest that Paula looks at the stats. Seventy-nine percent of eligible children are now signed up\u2014almost 80 percent of the early childhood education sector is signed up. This is a great success for Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022b19414629675493d8dd26e309455c883\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b19414629675493d8dd26e309455c883\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E If Television New Zealand (TVNZ) had not made public the issues surrounding the assistance given to family members by the head of Immigration New Zealand, Mary Anne Thompson, nothing would have changed. Ministers in this Labour Government were content to have what David Oughton in his report calls an \u201CUnlawful Immigration Decision\u201D\u2014that is, at best\u2014and what some people might call corruption in Immigration New Zealand. Ministers were happy to simply cover that up. If TVNZ had not made the issue public, and if questions had not been asked in this Parliament, would Mary Anne Thompson still be head of Immigration New Zealand? Of course she would. Were Ministers happy for that to be the case? Of course they were. Ministers were prepared to simply hide unlawful decision-making in Immigration New Zealand from the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThat is outrageous. Whichever way we look at it, it is absolutely outrageous that it takes our media or television\u2014and in this case Television New Zealand\u2014to actually put information in front of the public, after a battle with the department to get this information, which involved the Ombudsmen. And the information was finally released on Thursday evening just before Easter, just before Good Friday. Is that an example of a Government that wants to be open and transparent about this information, when it dumps it out on the evening of the Thursday just before Good Friday, just before Easter? What hypocrisy! What absolute hypocrisy it is to claim\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222588aeb6a55d484a94764220defda2b8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202512220d781437191c3a862e70d67b3\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Assistant Speaker, I am not accusing any member of that; I am referring to this Government. How else do you view that, Mr Assistant Speaker? Oh, I cannot bring you into the debate\u2014forgive me. What is so appalling is that if this had not been made public, Ministers David Cunliffe and Clayton Cosgrove would have been perfectly happy for nothing to happen. If they could have kept it secret, they would have. That is why Ministers are accountable here. Dr Michael Cullen and Clayton Cosgrove have claimed that it is just an employment matter, but Ministers are responsible for Government policy and for the outcomes of Government policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EIn this case, the Government policy is that there is a Pacific residual quota available for people from Kiribati and other Pacific nations. That policy has some constraints on it. People have to make an application within a certain time frame, and a certain number of places are available. That was the policy. The outcome, following the unlawful decision-making within Immigration New Zealand, was that people who applied legally within the time frame, and people who would have fallen within the 75 places available, missed out on those places. Some people who qualified under Government policy missed out on getting residence, and people who did not qualify under Government policy got residence. That is clearly the outcome of Government policy being applied wrongly, and the Minister is accountable for that. Whatever way Dr Michael Cullen tries to wiggle on this matter\u2014and members know how Dr Cullen tries to\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274999a2548f54656beaaa4f9c09d8769\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Slippery!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d46bc99f20f34564860cb90f0390bbe3\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Is that what they say? I do not care what term is used; whatever way Dr Cullen tries to weasel his way out of this, the fact is that Government policy was one set of principles and the outcome following unlawful decisions in Immigration New Zealand was another set of results that were at odds with Government policy, and the Minister is accountable for that. It is all spelt out in the Oughton report, called, I might say, Review of Apparently Unlawful Immigration Decision. That is what David Oughton called it\u2014an unlawful immigration decision. This Oughton report shows not just inappropriate behaviour by Mary Anne Thompson. OK, she has stepped down now and there are all sorts of clouds around that; I do not want to address that today. This report shows that a number of senior officials in Immigration New Zealand were involved in this unlawful decision-making producing outcomes that are wrong and not Government policy. The Minister is accountable for that, but nothing has happened to these people. Although the names are blanked out in the report, it is clear who these people are. And Ministers will be held to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e007a090804340a6ab804410ae86f6c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e007a090804340a6ab804410ae86f6c6\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113na ko\u0113, Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113na t\u0101tou katoa. For an awful moment there I feared that our House and the television cameras might capture Dr Lockwood Smith performing something of a wiggle or a wriggle. He went on to refer to the weasel, and, of course, we feared he might strike that pose, which is more suited to his leader\u2014that of the weasel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOver the last several months the country has witnessed National members frothing up and down the country, and their leader and the front bench foaming about the fact that they have already won the benches of Treasury. They are acting like the proverbial magpie, waiting until a silver trinket or a golden gleam flows from the policies and the ideas that our party has laid before the country. They wait and they test whether there is a constituency for those ideas, and they eagerly gobble them up, fly away, and regurgitate them as their own ideas, thinking that that is the recipe to win the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWhat sorts of ideas have National members tried this form of alchemy on? At every opportunity we see Mr John Key endeavouring to cuddle up to my whanaunga from the M\u0101ori Party. Of course, they are too drowsy to realise that the man\u2019s real agenda, and the party\u2019s real agenda, is to destroy the M\u0101ori seats. For fear of being outdone, Rodney Hide, in a flight of fancy and a fit of rhetoric that will defy all sorts of psychologists, has wandered around our country trying to find suitable M\u0101ori candidates to represent the ACT colours in the M\u0101ori seats. No doubt, of course, a number of ne\u2019er-do-wells might be attracted to that cause. Both the National Party and the ACT party say something to an audience in order to capture its attention, but deep down they propose to do something quite different in the unlikely event that they capture the benches of Treasury. Of course, that remains a fantasy, and all the froth and all the shenanigans up and down the country will not trick the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ELet us also study what has been the response from those parties in relation to Dr Cullen\u2019s brilliant decision to bring back rail into public ownership. Not only has he presided over a handsome level of investment in terms of ONTRACK and the infrastructure but he wisely concluded that those sunk costs would release better value by the State re-acquiring that asset after it had been rorted and destroyed by the Fay Richwhite cabal\u2014and, fortunately, some of them faced virtual charges from the Securities Commission. Secondly, as Toll has suffered all sorts of financial woes in the sharemarket of Australia, Dr Cullen had the opportunity to engage in a set of negotiations, and now Toll is firmly in the grip of the Crown\u2019s commercial route.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe public love the decision to bring back rail into public ownership, despite the best efforts of John Key to complain and show that he actually is not possessed of the facts but is just stirring things up. Bill English has been secretly threatening to sell it at the moment National has an opportunity to occupy this side of the House. Of course, he will get the superannuation before that happens. So those members have to overcome the difficulty that the public approve of these investments. Has a backward step emerged in terms of international travel since we acquired Air New Zealand? No. It was a fantastic commercial intervention. Are we not going to create a great opportunity for a more efficient transportation system with vessels plying their trade around the coast of Aotearoa, and trains travelling smoothly and efficiently, serving both the private and the public good? And, of course, planes, largely owned by the State, will be trading and moving people around from our country to the next country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe reason those members do not like that is that at a deeper level they do not want the public to continue to own these assets. Sooner or later we will have the debate as to whom New Zealand wants to back\u2014those who want to treat the system of Government and our society at large as if it were one large firm, or those who see the balance, the leadership amidst considerable adversity, taken by our side of the House, and who realise that firms do serve private purposes very well but that they also must fulfil a public function.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022e52ac748df574874876db91f1cdf1a2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e52ac748df574874876db91f1cdf1a2e\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Today I want to concentrate on only one thing, and that is the performance of the Minister the Hon David Cunliffe. I want to concentrate on him for a number of reasons, the first of which is that he already has form. I say that because, as members will have witnessed, he is the Minister who, week after week in this House, got up and defended over and over again the actions of the honourable Taito Phillip Field. David Cunliffe said that nothing was going on and that the Opposition was making something out of nothing. Taito Phillip Field, according to the Prime Minister\u2014this is the better one\u2014was guilty only of trying to help his constituents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EOK; so David Cunliffe has form. We know that from the very fact that Taito Phillip Field is now gone from the Labour Party. He is sitting in the courts in Auckland facing charges of corruption and of perverting the course of justice. David Cunliffe has to answer as to how come the weak, lily-livered report that the Government had done\u2014which was done specifically to hide everything in that case\u2014got it off the hook, except that, finally, the police moved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ELet us move on to this particular case. The case of Mary Anne Thompson getting her family and so on approved for immigration dates back to 2005, so it has been running for a long time. The head of the Department of Labour, James Buwalda, had an investigation done by David Oughton. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EHere is the first question I want to raise. Has there ever been a Minister in the history of this Parliament who, after being told by his or her chief executive: \u201CI have a major issue at the department. I am bringing in an external investigator to investigate corruption.\u201D, did not take any further action? I can tell members that every Minister I have ever known, including some Ministers on that side of the House, would have immediately briefed the Prime Minister and the Minister of State Services if he or she had had that put to them by the chief executive and would have said: \u201CI will let you know the moment we get the findings on this independent investigation.\u201D That is what any Minister would do. One would not leave oneself exposed. One would want to make sure that everybody knew. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister prides herself on running a no-surprises campaign. That is what she says. Well, if I was a Minister\u2014and in David Cunliffe\u2019s case back then, a very junior Minister\u2014I would be protecting the old backside. I would be saying: \u201CThis is what I have heard from my department, and an investigation is going on.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe final report was presented in July of 2007, and David Cunliffe was the Minister of Immigration for another 6 months. No one can tell me\u2014I simply will not believe it and neither will New Zealanders\u2014that for another 6 months he sat on the findings of that report, said nothing, did nothing, and told nobody anything. He already has form. We know that, and he has proved it yet again. As my colleague Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith said, if it had not been for the tenacity of Television New Zealand journalists digging and digging, trying under the Official Information Act but being declined\u2014[Interruption] No, the department would not release it under the Official Information Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EFinally the Ombudsman forced the department\u2019s hand to release the report, and when did it release it? Now here is the interest of transparency: it was released on the Thursday night before Easter, as Parliament was lifting for 3 weeks and everyone was gone. Does anyone believe that? Seriously, again, does anyone believe that a report done in July of last year had to be waited for, kept, and released on the Thursday night before a 3-week adjournment and the Easter break? I do not, and I do not think any fair-minded New Zealander does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWhat New Zealanders know is that the Minister sat on this report, he tried to hide it, he was exposed, and he used the argument that he had been transparent and up front. \u201COh yes, you have!\u201D, I say to the Minister. The Minister has been up front since Television New Zealand outed him. The Minister had no choice once Television New Zealand got the Ombudsman\u2019s ruling and it was found out that the Minister knew about the report, had kept it, and had even handed it on to another Minister who had had it since December and did nothing. Oh, finally! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThen the Government came to the last of the lamest of excuses: it said it is an employment issue. If someone is stealing the coffee or taking ballpoint pens home, then those are employment issues; this is about corruption. It goes to the heart of proper Government and those Ministers did nothing. They should go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022 data-id=\u002269559d83bb534bcca69d9b460485fd5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269559d83bb534bcca69d9b460485fd5b\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E For the few moments I have, I want to talk about New Zealand ownership, and as I am a member of New Zealand First, people will not be surprised about that. We intend to keep on talking about New Zealand ownership, and we will be applauding those who have come around to our point of view\u2014that is, the Labour Party. The National Party on the other side of the House still has a way to go as far as we are concerned in this regard. We in New Zealand First believe that ownership of the assets of this country does make a difference\u2014it matters who owns them. If that were not so, why would people seek to own anything in any part of the world, let alone their own house or car, or anything like that? I do not think I need to go much further down that track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EBefore I start to talk about what the Chinese are going to do, I say upfront that we applaud what the Chinese Government is attempting to do, because it is looking after its country and its people. In yesterday\u2019s paper we saw that Rio Tinto Aluminium and Broken Hill Pty Co. Ltd will increase the price of steel, or parts of the steel process, to their customers to the tune of about 70 percent, and the Chinese have said: \u201CYeah, right!\u201D. China is attempting to buy into Rio Tinto and Broken Hill and is worried that those two companies may indeed become one. We applaud China for that, because we believe it is looking after its best interests. We believe that that is what we should be doing in this country, because it is a model for success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EThe Chinese clearly have no intention of being at the end of some supply chain. In other words, they want a piece of the action upfront. They will not be dictated to on price or anything else by corporations in which they have no say, and they are moving to rectify that situation. I saw a report the other day\u2014and this is where we must be very careful in this country\u2014that stated that China was also looking for land around the world, including in New Zealand, that it could either buy or lease so that, again, it does not have to pay world prices for products but can have some say in the manufacturing of products and get a supply chain from the paddock to the plate, as we like to call it in New Zealand, or, in Australia\u2019s case, from the mine to the end product in China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI noticed that a gentleman who came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014one Dr Grenville\u2014was speaking out about the dangers to Australia of China buying into its companies. Clearly, China is looking to protect its interests, not Australia\u2019s interests. Dr Grenville says\u2014and quite rightly so\u2014that it is in Australians\u2019 and Australian politicians\u2019 interests to protect Australia. That is our issue in this country. Whom are we acting for? We in this House should, in every hour of every day, be acting for New Zealanders, not for some foreign company and not to advantage some sort of notion of free trade in the world. We\u2014all of us\u2014are elected to act in the interests of New Zealanders, and that is what we should be doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EIt is great that the Labour Government has bought back the railways. Clearly, more investment is needed. We understand that, and I think that everybody in New Zealand understands it. The Labour Government has said that this purchase will not be a huge income earner. Rather, it is part of a transport system, and we certainly understand that and applaud that. Likewise, we applauded when Air New Zealand was bought back, and we believe that that is a model for the railway enterprise going forward. Likewise, I have pleaded that the Labour Government protect our dairy industry to the extent that it can and not approve the buying up of smaller dairy companies by the likes of Nutritek, and so on and so forth. That industry must be protected, as well, because it is vital to our future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6a90ad71d6f450e80252946f7413046\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6a90ad71d6f450e80252946f7413046\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great privilege to be able to participate in the first general debate in the sitting after a parliamentary adjournment, because it is always a very interesting time in terms of the political landscape. Looking across the Chamber, I ask what the political landscape is in the National Party. It seems very divided, I must say. There seems to be division at every single level within National. National does not have much policy, but its members seem to be at complete odds with each other over what little policy they have that they are prepared to talk about. Let us look at some of the policy divisions that exist over there in the National Party. John Key seems to be the main swallower of dead rats. He has been swallowing so many dead rats that, as Dr Cullen rightly pointed out earlier this week, he is starting to resemble a dead rat cemetery as he walks around the country. He is swallowing dead rats while the other National members are saying: \u201CHang on there, Mr Key, we\u2019re not so sure we want to just simply regurgitate Labour Party policy, because, yes, although we know all the ideas are over on that side, with Labour setting the agenda, we don\u2019t think the National Party should necessarily just follow along in its footsteps.\u201D However, there is great division on that, because John Key just wants to say what he thinks people want to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThere is great disagreement within National. Let us just get into what the detail of that is. John Key and Bill English disagree on a number of aspects. They disagree on the future of rail in this country, on the future of broadband in this country, on the issue of asset sales, and on the issue of the level of what sort of Government debt this country should carry. They disagree on superannuation, on how much of it we should have, and at what age people should qualify for it. They also disagree on early childhood education. These are not small side issues here in this country of Aotearoa; these are major issues about the future of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe leader and the deputy leader of the National Party disagree with each other. But it does not finish there. John Key and Tony Ryall disagree on whether the cap should be removed on doctors\u2019 fees. Again, it is not a small issue for New Zealanders. This is about how much we will pay when we go to the doctors. John Key agrees with Labour that it should be as low as possible. In fact, Labour has halved the fees people pay to go to see their general practitioners these days. John Key thinks that is a pretty good policy, but Tony Ryall thinks that doctors should be able to continue to charge as much as they like, irrespective of how much the taxpayer puts into subsidising those doctors\u2019 fees. Tony Ryall says that we should just let them charge as much as they like. So John Key and Tony Ryall disagree with each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EJohn Key also disagrees with Wayne Mapp and Tony Ryall on whether market rents should be returned to State housing tenants. Mr Key disagrees with Georgina te Heuheu about abolishing M\u0101ori seats. John Key, Maurice Williamson, and Lockwood Smith disagree completely about climate change\u2014or do they? It is a pretty hard one to track. John Key once said that he thought it was a hoax but now he says he completely believes in it. However, Maurice Williamson and Lockwood Smith clearly have not got to that point yet. They are climate change deniers. Also, John Key disagrees with Allan Peachey on the issue of bulk funding of our schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThere is great division, and it is at every level. That division is starting to split the National Party apart, and it goes like this: there are those people who strongly believe in the National Party philosophy, and then there is John Key. I have here a direct quote from John Key: \u201CMy goal in leadership is to win the next election, and everything I do will be about achieving that.\u201D What sort of leadership is that? John Key is stating that he will do whatever it takes and say whatever he thinks people want to believe, in order to get elected. Goodness knows what he would do if the country was foolish enough to give him that opportunity and to actually go about electing him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI also want to talk a little more about the division that is there. This is what John Key had to say about rail in May of this year. He said that the rolling stock would \u201Cremain state-owned for at least the first term of a National-led Government which is consistent with our SOE policy.\u201D But in March 2008 Bill English said: \u201CWe certainly wouldn\u2019t be buying Toll. \u2026 We need to look after taxpayers\u2019 interests and the network and the best way to do that is to have a competent operator.\u201D He went on to say that if the purchase was completed under Labour, then a National Government would get out of the business as quickly as possible. Possibly what he wanted to say was \u201Cbefore lunchtime\u201D. If it was gone by lunchtime it would complete the sale of infrastructure in which Labour wants to invest for this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7f818b25a1e4596892e6ee80fc06cd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7f818b25a1e4596892e6ee80fc06cd8\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E We are seeing a Government that is in meltdown. We are seeing a Government that is simply out of touch. That is a little sad, because this is my first term and when I sat in this House for the first couple of years, in a general debate we got to hear Labour members stand and talk about what was important to New Zealanders. They talked about education, health, and the economy, things that were important to New Zealanders and that made a difference in the day-to-day lives of families. Now, of course, instead they stand up and squirm and try to find little examples. We should be flattered because instead they get up and talk about us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3152ec963c1408ba0e52ef1d329b58b\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: All the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252bd93f0586249ba96a133f3782da654\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: They talk about us all of the time, but I suppose when they are trying to hide from their cover-up\u2014so they are hiding the hiding they are doing through their cover-up\u2014it is a simple case of talking about anything except what is actually going on on the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWhat is going on on the day is actually quite frightening. New Zealanders expect to see a bit of responsibility from their Government. I am going to use a word that is not used often in this House\u2014and I hope Mr Assistant Speaker does not pull me up\u2014but it is called \u201Cintegrity\u201D. The head of a Government department resigned yesterday. She has been pulled up for corruption and for doing things that, under investigation, have proven to be quite disgraceful. But let us look at the example that that department has had. This is the department that was told to \u201Clie in unison\u201D by its very own Minister. This is the department that last year dealt with an MP who is now up in court on charges. Those are the examples that this department has had. So when the head of that department was telling her officials to let her family through and was putting out those requests for that corrupt practice to happen, can we really blame her when we see the sort of example that has been passed down by Ministers and members? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe saw the Hon David Cunliffe stand up in this House day after day last year and justify the actions of his then colleague Taito Phillip Field. When day after day he referred to a whitewash of a report and said that that was acceptable, how can it be a surprise to this Labour Government that the public now questions its honesty when it comes to the report about Mary Anne Thompson? There can be absolutely no doubt that the public and this Opposition party will continue to ask questions, because the public simply no longer believes this Government when it says that a report is being done, that an independent inquiry is being held, and that someone will be held to account. When no one holds anyone to be responsible, how can we see accountability? When a Minister will not stand up and say \u201CThis is my department, and I take responsibility for what happens within it.\u201D, how on earth can we have accountability to taxpayers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EHow on earth can we have accountability to taxpayers when the Minister of Finance will not tell taxpayers how much of their money has been spent on the railways, when that number changes day to day, and when as recently as yesterday in this House the Minister would not tell taxpayers how much of their money is being spent on buying back the railways? Let us debate whether it is the right thing to do. Bring it on! Let it be a topic for this election campaign. I am more than happy to go there. But let us do it with the facts. Let us do it with the facts and let us do it with some honesty, because that is what New Zealanders want and expect. The out-of-touch Labour members should remember that it is not their money. Taxpayers\u2019 money is being squandered daily, and they deserve accountability and their Ministers to stand up and take some responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThat is the example we are being shown throughout the country. We have heard a few reporters say that the phone is off the hook. I say that the phone has fallen into the water and it has gone. They will not find the phone being answered, let alone find people willing to listen to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e24afec1121e40e783250ca4227f97b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e24afec1121e40e783250ca4227f97b5\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I begin by acknowledging the presence in the gallery of members of the public who are here for the Mauao Historic Reserve Vesting Bill. When that bill is read it will be a historic and solemn moment in this Parliament\u2019s history\u2014perhaps a bit more historic and solemn than the matters that have been bandied about in this debate so far. It is good to know that Parliament will be getting on to doing its proper job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI would like to take up the challenge laid down by the previous member and debate an important issue before the public at the moment, and that is climate change. Members will know that another historic bill is before Parliament\u2014it is actually before the Finance and Expenditure Committee at the moment\u2014and that is the Climate Change (Emissions Trading and Renewable Preference) Bill. It is a very, very important bill that will allow New Zealand to fulfil its Kyoto Protocol obligations. I take this opportunity to urge members all around the House to express their support for what is very, very good legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI also want to ask National members in particular what position that party takes on climate change. We seem to have lots of different indications from lots of different spokespeople. In October 2007 John Key said what I think is a very responsible thing. He said: \u201CI think you need to balance your economic opportunities with your environmental responsibilities. If you get those things out of whack what you are likely to do is just export a whole lot of industries \u2026 On the other side of the coin, I think you have got to take climate change seriously.\u201D That is a responsible statement that tries to reflect the policy being striven for in the emissions trading legislation, and I hope that the National Party will stick to that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, we have had inconsistent statements, even from Mr Key himself. In May 2005 he said that Kyoto \u201Cis a complete and utter hoax, if I may say so \u2026 even if one believes in global warming\u2014and I am somewhat suspicious of it \u2026\u201D. That is a worrying inconsistency. We really need to see consistency from members opposite on this important issue\u2014like the responsible position taken by Mr Key\u2019s deputy when he said in February 2007: \u201Cwe are open to the science \u2026\u201D. That is very similar to the position taken by Nick Smith. He has taken a responsible public stance on the Climate Change (Emissions Trading and Renewable Preference) Bill, which I hope members opposite will follow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EBut we heard Maurice Williamson speaking earlier in this debate in praise of Television One and its investigative abilities. I would like to join him in doing that, because we owe Television One for that famous interview where Maurice Williamson was asked: \u201CI understand that you said to the AA conference that you didn\u2019t believe [climate change] was happening.\u201D Williamson responded: \u201CThat\u2019s not true. What I said at the AA conference is I wasn\u2019t going to comment on any other member\u2019s policy. I was there to talk about roading.\u201D Television One asked: \u201CDo you believe in climate change?\u201D. Williamson replied: \u201CI believe in the National Party\u2019s policy.\u201D Television One then asked: \u201CBut do you, yourself, believe in it?\u201D. The reply was \u201CI believe in the National Party\u2019s policy\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237e6095bb859473fb76c627e87b45042\u0022\u003EHon Paul Swain\u003C/span\u003E: Whatever that is!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274f0189b092f413daa0b45e4922fdda9\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Paul Swain makes a good point. What is the National Party\u2019s policy on climate change in general? What is its policy on this emissions trading legislation in particular? The public has a right to know, and it is time we heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EMembers will remember that other famous interview by Television One, with Lockwood Smith, who said: \u201CI don\u2019t know what this is about. My position is totally consistent with National\u2019s position.\u201D Television One: \u201CWhat I\u2019m asking you is whether you believe in global warming.\u201D The reply: \u201CMy position is totally consistent with National\u2019s position.\u201D Television One: \u201CLockwood, I\u2019m asking you whether you believe in global warming.\u201D Lockwood Smith: \u201CI\u2019m telling you what my answer is.\u201D Television One: \u201CWhat is it?\u201D. Lockwood Smith: \u201CThat I totally support National\u2019s position.\u201D Television One: \u201CDo you believe in global warming?\u201D. Lockwood Smith: \u201CI totally support National\u2019s position.\u201D Television One: \u201CWhy can\u2019t you tell us yes or no?\u201D. Lockwood Smith: \u201CBecause the important thing is what I support.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWhen John Key was asked about this apparent conflict, he said: \u201CWell, I mean in the case of Maurice and Lockwood, I mean, they, they simply are, they look, they nat, they back the National Party position, which is on climate change. Since I\u2019ve been the leader I\u2019ve made it very clear that National is going to take climate change seriously. We\u2019ve got a target of reducing our emissions by 50 percent by 2050. We\u2019ll be backing the emissions trading scheme, albeit that the system is complex and that; and we\u2019ll need to take a good look at it. We back Kyoto. So, ah, you know, we\u2019re bound by collective responsibility, and I think, in that regard, Lockwood and Maurice have made that quite clear; and that\u2019s totally fine.\u201D Well, let us hope that is the position and that the National Party will support this important legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e943ec4866c47e2a7cdb32a830e799b\u0022\u003EMauao Historic Reserve Vesting Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c23d0d754cd74fbbb6b379d516878e65\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u00223ef418b00c1b4be396b10c9fa6ac43af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ef418b00c1b4be396b10c9fa6ac43af\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Mauao Historic Reserve Vesting Bill be now read a third time. E te Kaiwhakahaere o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o te Whare P\u0101remata, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Ka huri ahau ki ng\u0101 iwi o Tauranga Moana e tau nei. Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga me koutou o Waitaha, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, nau mai, hara mai ki te Whare P\u0101remata. Haere mai ki te whakaturetanga o te mana pupuri o Mauao ki a koutou, me t\u0101 m\u0101tou harikoa kua tae \u0101-tinana mai koutou ki t\u0113nei r\u0101 whakahirahira m\u014D t\u0101tou katoa, m\u014D koutou katoa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E[Mr Assistant Speaker of the House, greetings to you. I turn now to acknowledge the people of Tauranga Harbour seated here. To you Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, and Waitaha, welcome. Welcome to Parliament and to the process of legislating the vesting of Mauao to you and our joy at your presence here on this significant day for all of us and for you, greetings.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge and welcome the kuia, koroua, and wh\u0101nui of Tauranga Moana iwi and Waitaha, who are present among us in Parliament today. They have made the journey from Tauranga Moana to witness the final passage of this bill, which will transfer the ownership of the Mauao historic reserve to the three iwi of Tauranga Moana, Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, and Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga. I would also like to extend a special mihi to the members of Te R\u016Bnanganui o Tauranga Moana executive committee. They have patiently steered the proposal from its inception, through the negotiations and ratification, to its introduction into the House late last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThe bill is entitled Mauao Historic Reserve Vesting Bill. The bill will make the iwi of Tauranga Moana the legal owners of Mauao. The title is significant because it reflects that the bill will vest the fee simple estate of the Mauao historic reserve in iwi. On registration, iwi will become the registered proprietors of Mauao. I also welcome Waitaha to the House, whose relationship with Mauao is recorded as a schedule of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThis bill implements the vesting agreement signed by the parties. It retains Mauao\u2019s status as a historic reserve. This will ensure a high level of protection from alienation and commercialisation, and continue to provide the public with access to this sacred taonga. These were some of the key principles that iwi requested, when considering the scope of the proposal that underpins this bill, to have Mauao returned. More obviously perhaps, the title of the bill restores the original name of the mountain\u2014Mauao\u2014as it is known to the tangata whenua. Of course, the bill\u2019s title also reflects the historic importance of Mauao, whose face is deeply etched with the marks of those who resided on the mountain for many hundreds of years. The trustees, who are the kaum\u0101tua, emphasised to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that iwi never ceded the mauri or the mana of Mauao. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThis bill achieves several things. It recognises the mana of Mauao and the great significance of the Mauao tapu to the tangata whenua of Tauranga Moana. It does so by vesting the fee simple estate of the Mauao historic reserve in the trustees of the Mauao Trust, to hold on behalf of the people of Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, and Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga. The bill concerns the three parcels of land that comprise the historic reserve, but the status of the recreation reserve at the base of Mauao will remain unchanged. The vesting preserves the current arrangements as far as public access to, and third-party use of, Mauao are concerned. This involves the arrangements for the management, ownership, and access to the encumbrances, such as the water reservoir, and the navigational beacon for the Port of Tauranga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EIwi asked for a provision in the bill prohibiting alienation of, or dealing with, Mauao by the representative body of Tauranga Moana iwi. This was due to the concern that the trustees may, one day, come under pressure to agree to develop Mauao commercially, which they have consistently opposed. The vesting legislation also removes the offer-back rights in the public works legislation, existing in relation to any of the three parcels of land that make up Mauao. This is evidenced in the memorandum of understanding between the Crown and M\u0101ori partnership, and the relationship generally has been building between the tangata whenua and the Tauranga City Council during this process. I understand that it is a healthy relationship that they have generated, and they should be congratulated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThe bill also acknowledges the value accorded by the New Zealand public generally to this prominent landmark. Mauao stands at the mouth of the dynamic landscape and waterways that comprise Tauranga Moana\u2019s unique geography, and the iwi takiw\u0101 of Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, and Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga. In this respect Mauao provides a place of definition in Tauranga Moana. The Mauao park ranger estimated that 850,000 visitors enjoyed Mauao\u2019s walking tracks in 2007, and that will continue. It epitomises that M\u0101ori do know how to manage general and public access. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThis bill passed through its second reading on 17 April 2008 with overwhelming support, and all who spoke were enthusiastic in favour of progressing the bill through its final stages. Some people have queried the nature of the bill and the implications of the wording of some of the clauses. I am convinced that the bill achieves the wishes of the kaum\u0101tua by transferring ownership of Mauao to iwi and leaving open the possibility of iwi managing Mauao in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003ESince 2005 we have collectively been progressing the proposal to vest the fee simple estate in the Mauao Historic Reserve in Tauranga Moana iwi under the terms and conditions agreed by the parties. The vesting preserves the Tauranga City Council\u2019s legal responsibility as the administering body of the Mauao Historic Reserve, and the Minister of Conservation has rights in relation to the Reserves Act 1977. The Tauranga City Council and iwi have also been involved in discussions to enhance the role of iwi in the management of Mauao. This has resulted in the Mauao Advisory Group Committee being upgraded to a Mauao Project Steering Group with iwi representation. It has also produced a memorandum of understanding between Tauranga Moana iwi and the council that records the aspirations of iwi to manage Mauao in the future. However, the bill does not make any management arrangements a condition of the vesting title in Tauranga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI think back to 2005 when Te R\u016Bnanganui formally accepted the Crown\u2019s offer on behalf of Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, and Waitaha. The only concern expressed at the time was that the proposed legislation would lock ongoing management of Mauao under the Tauranga City Council in perpetuity. In accepting the offer Te R\u016Bnanganui expressed confidence from their discussions with officials in the Tauranga City Council that the legislation would not preclude iwi from assuming total management of Mauao, should they develop the financial and infrastructural ability. I can assure members that the bill does not lock Tauranga City Council\u2019s management in perpetuity, and the bill achieves everything negotiated by the parties in 2005. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThis lofty mountain is certainly perceived as a navigational beacon by Tauranga Airport, not by Whangarei Airport. It has also been a navigational beacon for the culture and tikanga of these people who have lived on this land and managed it and understood it over generations\u2014hundreds of years. Most certainly it is a navigational beacon for the history of these people. The iwi of Tauranga Moana have watched this over generations. If we are serious about nationhood and not into the gabble of hypocritical statements in relation to better race relations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdbc7940177945b29a2cda0c0e66dab9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022435339e76310474cb96ce032493eac61\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014then let us serve to ensure that we bring cognisance to nationhood and make sure that M\u0101ori can manage it and can look after it. It should be understood that that mountain has been there before that member who has been interjecting, it has been there before me, it will be there after that member has gone\u2014and it will not be long, the way National is performing\u2014and it certainly will be there after them to watch the mokopuna of the people who have brought this to fruition. Again I want to commend the members of Tauranga Moana iwi and Waitaha to the House. I salute them for remaining resolute in the desire of some people to upset the process. I welcome their attendance here today, and I most certainly want to ensure that this is a great day for M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022 data-id=\u00220e21b8d15eb54a338d7da5b9ef75d5f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e21b8d15eb54a338d7da5b9ef75d5f1\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi ki a koutou ng\u0101 iwi o Tauranga Moana, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to you, the people of Tauranga Harbour. Greetings, greetings, and greetings to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThere was such a lot of unseemly shouting towards the end of that speech, which surprised me given that this Mauao Historic Reserve Vesting Bill is historic legislation, and very important legislation for the iwi of Tauranga Moana. I will start by congratulating them on their patience, on their hard work, and on their mahi over several years to achieve what we are about to do today, which is to legally vest the Mauao Historic Reserve in the iwi to whom it once belonged and to whom it will rightly belong again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe Minister has probably gone through some of the aspects of this bill, but I want just to recap on some parts of it as well. First of all, the bill does not form any part of a Treaty settlement. I commented yesterday during the Committee stage that I found this to be an interesting aspect, but in the end I bowed to the wisdom of the iwi, who have obviously seen that this is the best way to achieve and secure something that they have been wishing to have for some time now. But what is important about activities under the Treaty process is that we actually get to learn more about the history of any particular land and features that are important to iwi. So in time, although I congratulate Tauranga Moana on what they have achieved here, I also look forward to the day when their Treaty settlements are completed and we are in a position to see some of the history behind the way that this reserve came into the ownership of the Crown in the first place. Obviously if we are now legally vesting it back into the iwi, it suggests that the Crown ownership of it up until this time has been marginal\u2014to put it in a nice way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe background is that Mauao was acquired by the Crown in the 1880s. It has been administered as a historic reserve since 1981, and as far back as the late 1990s we were told in a briefing by the Minister that representatives of Tauranga Moana iwi sought to have Mauao returned to them. Subsequently, Te Runanga o Tauranga Moana Incorporated was mandated by Tauranga Moana iwi to negotiate the transfer proposal with the Crown. In August 2007 an agreement was reached and signed between the Crown, the iwi, and the trustees of the Mauao Trust. The bill provides for the fee simple estate in the Mauao Historic Reserve to be held in trust by trustees on behalf of Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, and Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga. There is also provision to ensure that the reserve is never disposed of, transferred, or any charge put on to it. Knowing the way iwi feel about their taonga\u2014and this is clearly a taonga to Tauranga Moana iwi\u2014we would almost say that that is probably not necessary in regard to them, because, having sought so long to get this back in their title, it would hardly be that they would sell it or dispose of it at some future date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThere was an interesting conundrum or dilemma for the select committee when we went to Tauranga to hear the submissions. Although the bill as it was introduced into the House provided for the vesting of the reserve in the trust, there was a clause that gave members of the trust much pain, and that made us look at it. On the one hand, the reserve was being returned to their ownership but, on the other hand, there was a gloss on it that meant it was regarded as remaining with the Crown. Some of us in our Committee stage speeches yesterday discussed this at some length in terms of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee and the way we tend to work when we can see an obvious injustice. We are prepared to leave politics to one side and work in the best interests of the kaupapa or of the issue itself. The issue was to find a form of words that made the transfer real, or maybe more truthful, and therefore acceptable to the iwi. We were able to do that, and I have to say that when one is on a select committee and finds an opportunity to work in consensus with all members of the committee to reach an outcome that is acceptable to all concerned, then that is one of the satisfying parts of this job. It does not happen very often, and I think Tauranga Moana can take some credit for the way\u2014the very humble way\u2014that they put their take forward for us to reconsider and to see whether there was something we could do to rectify what in their mind was only a Clayton\u2019s return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EIt may be that this is the first time that some members of the iwi have seen the final version of the bill. All members on the committee, Government and Opposition members alike, feel that we, with the help of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri of course, have come up with a form of words that better reflects the intention to have the ownership of this reserve returned to allow public access to continue as it has in the past, and to make sure that the obligations and responsibilities that have been incumbent on the Crown and the Tauranga District Council remain with those organisations, which is only fair. It is still a public utility, but as I say it achieves that hugely important symbolic and legal undertaking that the maunga is back where it belongs with the iwi concerned. It is a very good result, I should say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI just come back to the issue of this transfer not being a part of Treaty settlements. I am not sure where the Treaty negotiations for Tauranga are, but I hope that when this legislation passes into law today it gives real impetus to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, and to the Labour Government, to see whether they can now move in a more speedy fashion to make sure that these people, like all other iwi who have been waiting for decades, have past injustices corrected, because that is what Treaty settlements are all about. It is about reparation, sure, but it is also about bringing justice to iwi\u2014to this iwi, in particular, who for so many years while a wrong has remained on its books might very well have felt justified in saying: \u201CThere may be justice in this world, but we won\u2019t see it until we have all our claims resolved.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI wish Tauranga Moana iwi well\u2014and I include Waitaha in that as well. As I say, maybe this gives an additional push for the iwi to hold the Government to account in order to make sure that the resolution of its Treaty claims happens sooner rather than later. Again, I want to congratulate Tauranga Moana iwi on this legislation and on giving us the privilege, as parliamentarians, to do something worthwhile in this House. I wish the iwi well as it goes forward into the future. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022 data-id=\u00228a39e5c78f204f29961031826095adda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a39e5c78f204f29961031826095adda\u0022\u003EDAVE HEREORA (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Te mea tuatahi, kei te mihi atu ki \u014Dku wh\u0101nau, whanaunga kei roto i te Whare i n\u0101ianei. N\u014D reira, ki a t\u0101tou t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, \u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E[The first thing is to acknowledge my families and relatives present in the House at this time. So greetings to us, greetings.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EToday for me represents nearing the end of a journey, and that journey for me started some time ago when I was a younger lad at the age of 17\u2014about 10 years ago\u2014when I used to run up that hill. I can still hear the domineering voice of Bruce Matuska saying \u201CHereora, come on, get up there.\u201D So the journey that I am now on is a journey where I have worn the hat of chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee in dealing with the process. I stand humbled today, having been given that opportunity and privilege to be able to speak in this House with my whanau present. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe Mauao Historic Reserve Vesting Bill was referred to the select committee for consideration in December last year. The committee heard the public submissions on the bill in Tauranga Moana, and we considered the views expressed by submitters, and it should come as no surprise that the submissions were overwhelmingly in support of the return of Mauao to Tauranga Moana iwi. Of the 27 submissions we received, 17 of those submitters appeared before us. They included kaum\u0101tua who are also the trustees, the iwi r\u016Bnanga of Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, and Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, representatives of Waitaha, individual members of Tauranga Moana iwi, the Mayor of Tauranga City Council, Stuart Crosby, and the New Zealand Historic Places Trust. We were especially grateful to hear the views from kaum\u0101tua on the bill given their lead role in this initiative and their responsibility on behalf of the iwi as holders of fee simple estate once the bill is passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe key issues raised by submitters were in relation to ownership rights and obligations as reflected in the then clause 7 and 8 of the bill as introduced. The committee considered submitters\u2019 concerns that clause 7 did not provide for the return of full ownership of Mauao to the iwi, and that the wording was of concern because it stated that the reserve must be treated as if a fee simple estate in the reserve was still vested in the Crown. It was felt by some that the land was being returned in name only with all rights remaining with the Crown. We therefore recommended that clauses 7 and 8 of the bill be deleted and that drafting changes be made to a new clause 8 to incorporate the intent of clause 7. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EMauao has a status of a historic reserve under the Reserves Act 1977. Mauao comprises three parcels of land that are Crown land over which the Minister of Conservation has certain powers, duties, and obligations. The Minister\u2019s powers include a power to appoint an administrating body to manage and control the reserve subject to the provisions of the Reserves Act 1977. A clause is required in the bill to ensure, as the agreement to introduce vesting legislation provides, that all general law will continue to apply to Mauao after the vesting takes place. The intention of the clause is for the rights and obligations under, for example, occupational health and safety, building, and rating liability legislation to continue to be the responsibilities of the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EHowever, the Crown cannot know what laws may be passed in the future that could affect the owners of Mauao as further rights and obligations could be created under laws that are yet to be made. Under the current provision in the bill the Mauao trustees will not bear any of these present or future ownership obligations. If clause 7 is removed entirely, significant legal uncertainty would arise concerning what obligations the trustees may bear and what rights they may have as owners of Mauao. We recognised the offence caused by the original wording of the clause, and have recommended that the intent of the clause be reworded in clause 8 to address this concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003ESeveral submitters recommended excluding Waitaha from the bill. We did not agree with the recommendation, and it was very clear to us that Waitaha has a relationship with Mauao, having resided on Mauao for several hundred years and because the agreement to introduce vesting legislation provides for Waitaha\u2019s relationship with Mauao to be recognised. We do note, however, that Waitaha was originally included equally in the proposal, and Waitaha supported the final agreement on the basis of Waitaha\u2019s statement of recognition and its ongoing representation at that management level. The mayor has indicated that Waitaha\u2019s status in the management of Mauao Historic Reserve remains unresolved. Waitaha is represented on the council\u2019s Mauao steering group, and has been there for some time, but the recent memorandum of understanding reached between the council and the three Moana iwi and r\u016Bnanga does not currently recognise Waitaha\u2019s relationship with Mauao. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EClearly some issues need to be ironed out around the management in the future, including the involvement of the trustees. We do not, however, consider that any further changes to the bill such as attaching the memorandum of understanding is the appropriate way of addressing those issues. As we considered the submissions I believe that the committee finally came to a consensus, and it is not often that one gets a group on a committee that is able to come to consensus in relation to a bill. I think that in this case it was a good opportunity for us to promote together those recommendations that were successful in making those changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EIn finishing, I thank the committee members for their participation. I acknowledge and thank the iwi of Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, Waitaha, and all those who contributed to the submission hearing. I also acknowledge the efforts of our Speaker, Margaret Wilson, who originally, I understand, as Minister, was responsible for bringing this bill forward. I acknowledge Mita Ririnui and his work and involvement in the process, and I also acknowledge the fosterer of the bill, the Hon Parekura Horomia. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022 data-id=\u002261210ddfe7a14460a1d1a1d67e211f4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261210ddfe7a14460a1d1a1d67e211f4b\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to talk on this bill because I am the MP for the area, of course. From my house I overlook the Mount, which is quite a sight. The people of Tauranga will be happy about the transfer of ownership of the Mount to the various M\u0101ori groups. They will be happy to hear that we will be able to walk or run on this landmark at no cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI myself will explain to the people of Tauranga that this is not a Treaty settlement. There will be no commercial enterprises in the area, and therefore the M\u0101ori groups will have no income. Because of that situation the Tauranga City Council will meet all maintenance costs and will cooperate with the different groups at different times on what needs to be done on the Mount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI need to mention something here, which I do not really want to do but I will. Yesterday a member of New Zealand First congratulated me on participating in sorting out this bill. I thank him for that. I hope that his following remark\u2014that this is the only thing I have done in this House\u2014was not a clever remark and an attempt to take a swipe at me. I tell him to beware. His party leader has a bad record of getting into the sewer with smart-arse remarks, as he did in the last election. If he gets dirty in the 2008 election in Tauranga, I will be returning the compliment with remarks about undeclared money from Western Bay Finance and various amounts of money in brown paper bags from fishing people. In time New Zealand First will find out what I have been doing on the matters of leaky homes, first-home buyers, and building construction. Anyway, back to the Mount deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4d55042e55f42009da66bc7bd51f6d1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: Please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e840e27b0f6464fabc4a2849d39df93\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy\u2014[Interruption] The remarks were justified because of a swipe at me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003ELet us go back to the Mount deal. I am happy that I was involved with this deal. It is unusual for members on all sides of this House to be heading in the same direction. It was obvious at the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that all committee members were trying to get a lasting agreement. I applaud them for doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003ETauranga and the Bay of Plenty have a wonderful history but there have been some wrongs in that history. These wrongs are gradually being rectified. I thank the various M\u0101ori groups in the Bay of Plenty for being patient. I look forward to more settlements ending with the satisfaction that we, the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee and the M\u0101ori groups, have achieved in this deal. This satisfaction has been achieved by all parties listening and debating in a progressive manner. I claim a small credit for getting a good result. All participating people deserve some credit for what they did in getting a good end result. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI will not be an MP in that area after the next election, but I will still go to the top of the Mount on Waitangi Day. I will continue to ask to be buried on the top, and I want permission from the M\u0101ori owners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd1bce925e5249a2bb74a7e939e51db5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd1bce925e5249a2bb74a7e939e51db5\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Assistant Speaker. Engari te mea tuatahi, koutou o Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, me Waitaha hoki, koutou i tae mai i roto o te Whare nei, koutou i are taringa mai, koutou hoki e m\u0101takitaki mai, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, \u0101, kia ora mai an\u014D t\u0101tou. \u0100, ko t\u0113nei te m\u0101ngai ki t\u0113nei kaupapa mai i te R\u014Dp\u016B a Aotearoa Tuatahi kia hakatautoko te pire nei, kia turengia. N\u0101 reira, i roto i te \u0101huatanga o w\u0113n\u0101 t\u016B momo k\u014Drero, kei te tautoko ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i puta mai, mai i ng\u0101 kaik\u014Drero i t\u016B ake i mua i a au.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[Greetings indeed to you, Madam Assistant Speaker. The first thing for me is to acknowledge you of Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, and Waitaha also, who have arrived in this House, those of you listening in and those of you watching; greetings to you, greetings to you, and greetings to us once again. I represent the interests of New Zealand First, and support the passing of this bill into law. Therefore, I endorse what speakers who rose before me have expressed relating to that.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThis bill is about the transfer of the fee simple estate of Mauao\u2014or, as it was commonly known, Mount Maunganui, situated on Tauranga Harbour\u2019s eastern entrance\u2014from the Crown to Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, and Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga. The bill also provides for a statement of recognition to the iwi of Waitaha, which ensures its links to this historic site are recorded in this legislation. This bill is not a Treaty settlement, as has been alluded to by previous speakers, and nor should it be considered as such. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EIwi history has it that Mauao was once a hill without a name. According to that history, this hill was a pononga, a slave, to a mountain called \u014Ct\u0101newainuku. The pononga was in love with a hill called P\u016Bwhenua, but she had already fallen for his captor. In despair, the nameless hill decided to drown himself, and he called upon the patupaiarehe, the fairy people, to assist with that. The patupaiarehe began dragging the nameless hill towards the sea. However, those nocturnal people lost track of time, and as they neared the ocean the rising sun signalled their disappearance. The nameless one was left in the very place where he still stands and became known as Mauao, which means \u201Ccaught by the dawn\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EIt is important to make reference to that history, in that with the passing of this legislation, Mauao may no longer feel deserted by the people of the area\u2014not that I am suggesting it has been, but at least it returns to the care and protection of the people of Tauranga Moana. This bill signals a new dawn for both this well-known landmark and the local iwi. I should say that this new dawn has not been easily forthcoming, as it has taken almost 7 years for it to reach the stage it has reached today. I say that as it was back in August 2001 when representatives acting on behalf of Te R\u016Bnanganui o Tauranga Moana first approached the then constituent member for Waiariki with a proposal for consideration by the Crown for the return of Mauao to the ownership of the tangata whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EOngoing discussions between the Crown, te r\u016Bnanganui, and the Tauranga City Council were had over the years, until finally on 20 July 2004 the Government agreed in principle to transfer ownership of the Mauao historic reserve to the tangata whenua. As part of that process, the r\u016Bnanganui was given the mandate to negotiate the proposal for Te Hokinga Mai o Mauao\u2014in other words, the return of Mauao on behalf of the iwi of Tauranga Moana. That culminated in an agreement between the Crown and iwi being signed in August of last year. With the bill\u2019s introduction on 21 November 2007, the first reading on 11 December last year, the second reading on 17 April of this year, and the Committee stage yesterday, the journey for the iwi of Tauranga Moana has taken some time to reach this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAs I have mentioned, this bill vests the fee simple estate of the Mauao historic reserve in the trustees of the Mauao Trust, to hold on behalf of Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, and Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga. The bill also provides that the Mauao historic reserve continues to be subject to the Reserves Act 1977. The significance of this is that it provides protection for Mauao from commercialisation or alienation. Just as significant is the fact that the bill preserves the existing management arrangements for Mauao. To this end I acknowledge the Tauranga City Council, which has held some responsibility for the management of Mauao over the years, for its agreement to the bill and its undertaking that it will continue to have some input into the management of Mauao. This continued involvement is given further regard by the bill in schedule 2, which I am sure the citizens of Tauranga will appreciate, given that it assures some protection against fire hazards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAs has already been alluded to, the original bill contained a clause that gave rise to the assertion that the return of Mauao to the iwi of Tauranga Moana was, in fact, a Clayton\u2019s deal\u2014that is, it is returned but it is not returned. With the collegiality of the members of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee and the contribution from officials, we are now able to have a bill that meets the requirements of all parties. I ought to say that even though I was a member of that select committee, its members ought to be congratulated. This bill provides an example of a situation where, if there is a willingness to find a way to satisfy the needs of all parties, then satisfaction can be obtained, irrespective of what one\u2019s political philosophies might be. I think for that reason this particular bill will have its place in history as part of the process of this institution.\t\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira, e kui m\u0101, e kara m\u0101, koutou ng\u0101 iwi o Tauranga Moana, ahakoa kua tino roa rawa atu i tatari i a koutou m\u014D t\u0113nei w\u0101 ko te mea nui, kua tau ki w\u0101 koutou wawata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[So to you, the elderly women and menfolk of the people of Tauranga Harbour, even though you have waited a very long time for this moment, the most important thing is that it has been settled to your satisfaction.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI also thank Te R\u016Bnanganui o Tauranga Moana, first, for their tenacity, and, second\u2014and just as important\u2014for their recognition of the wishes of their kuia and kaum\u0101tua beneficiaries, who wanted this issue to be finalised without too much fuss. In spite of the thinking of some of the principals of te r\u016Bnanganui, they carried out the wishes of their kaum\u0101tua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, koutou m\u0101 te iwi o Tauranga Moana, haere mai, haere, haere i runga i te rangim\u0101ria, haere hoki i raro i ng\u0101 manaakitanga \u014D t\u0101tou Kaihanga. N\u0101 reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, huri noa i t\u0113nei \u014D t\u0101tou whare, kia ora mai an\u014D t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[So to you, the people of Tauranga Harbour, welcome and return. Return peacefully and under the protection of our Creator as well, greetings, greetings. Greetings also to us throughout this of our buildings. Thank you all once again.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u002228b6412daadf495dba13fd9c8f678a84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228b6412daadf495dba13fd9c8f678a84\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a very brief call on the third reading of this important Mauao Historic Reserve Vesting Bill. United Future does not enjoy representation on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that has helped this bill through its passage to its third reading today, so we have not been actively involved in a hands-on way. But we do appreciate what the bill accomplishes in securing into the future a resource that is well loved by all those who live near it. I have two children who live alongside the mountain and who have regularly taken on the physical challenges it provides for them to go to the top. One of the things about this landmark is that we can underestimate it. It looks an easy climb from the bottom, but many a person has broken into a painful sweat trying to get to the top of it, and it is always much more fun coming down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI say that because I think that, when I talk about the opportunity to underestimate this land feature, from here on in it would be unwise of people to underestimate the importance it has to local iwi. We congratulate them on what they have gained today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWhat happens now is that those who are charged with its administration will do that with the understanding that it is not theirs to own, but, for now anyway, it is theirs to look after in a way that reflects the new obligations they have to those who will be trustees. It is a very good thing to be answerable to others on how we discharge these kinds of responsibilities. United Future congratulates iwi on the passage of this bill, acknowledging that they are best placed to oversee this important taonga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00220849396ff4f448debce6f61568081a6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220849396ff4f448debce6f61568081a6c\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, Waitaha, me k\u012B, Tauranga Moana, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou nau mai, haere mai. Haere mai koutou me \u014D t\u0101tou mate tuatini e takoto mai n\u0101 i runga i \u014D koutou marae. N\u014D reira, me p\u0113nei te k\u014Drero, tukuna r\u0101tou kia okioki i runga i te moenga roa. \u0100piti hono, t\u0101tai hono, ko te akaaka o te rangi ki a r\u0101tou; \u0101piti hono, t\u0101tai hono, ko te akaaka o te whenua ki a t\u0101tou te hunga ora. Kai aku rangatira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKia m\u014Dhio mai koutou ka \u0101hua wehewehe nei taku k\u014Drero kia m\u0101rama mai ai te katoa o te Whare i t\u0113nei k\u014Drero engari, ko te w\u0101hanga tuatahi he reo M\u0101ori katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101 t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei rangi kei aku rangatira, ko te whakanui i a Mauao e t\u016B rangatira, e t\u016B toka n\u0101, e rongo nei i te tai e timu ana, e pari ana i \u014Dna tahataha. Koia t\u0113r\u0101 e t\u016B mai r\u0101 i waenganui i a \u014Ct\u0101newainuku r\u0101ua ko P\u016Bwhenua. Hei te whitinga mai o te r\u0101, ar\u0101, a Mauao. Kua mau i a ia ko te ao. Ka t\u016B m\u014D ake nei hei tohu rangatira \u014D koutou o Ng\u0101i te Rangi, o Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, o Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo te hokinga mai o te mana o Mauao, he ara t\u0101pokopoko, he ara roa. Kua hipa noa atu i te kotahi rau tau, mai i ng\u0101 tau kotahi mano, waru rau, waru tekau. I taua w\u0101 me k\u012B, i riro ki te Karauna, ko te maunga nei. I riro, ka mutu me k\u012B, i whiwhi i a ia ko te Karauna. Me k\u012B ake au, ki t\u0101ku titiro, he wh\u0101iti noa iho te m\u014Dhio o te Karauna m\u014D te h\u012Btori o Mauao. E ai ki t\u0101 ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata mahi huakanga, i puta mai te maunga nei i ng\u0101 wh\u0101 miriona tau kua hipa atu. I hangaia n\u0101 te pah\u016Btanga o te whenua. N\u014D n\u0101 tata nei me k\u012B, i ng\u0101 ono tekau m\u0101 rima tau kua hipa, ko te pungarehu i puta i \u014Ckataina, i Taup\u014D, i M\u0101roa, i Tuhua, \u0101, n\u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga i hangaia ng\u0101 pari o Mauao. N\u0101, ka tae mai ki t\u0113nei w\u0101, kei te m\u014Dhio koutou, i nohoia a Mauao i waenga i te tau, kotahi mano, rua rau, waru tekau ki te kotahi mano, rima rau, W\u0101 o te Matua Tapu. Ar\u0101 noa ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, otir\u0101, ko ng\u0101 taonga n\u014D ng\u0101 p\u0101 tawhito e toru. Ko te Tihi, ko Ranginui t\u0113r\u0101. Ko t\u0113r\u0101 i te uru, ko Kinonui, \u0101, ko te p\u0101 o Maunganui an\u014D hoki. Kai t\u0113nei whakatupuranga ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e p\u016Btake mai ana i ng\u0101 tau kotahi mano, ono rau, rua tekau m\u0101 rima, ki te tau kotahi mano whitu rau, rima tekau tau, tae atu ki te pakanga o Kokowai. N\u0101, me k\u012B kua kitea he rua kai, he patu par\u0101oa, he mat\u0101 i ng\u0101 taha o Mauao e tohu nei i te noho o te tangata i reira. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKua k\u014Drerohia \u0113nei k\u014Drero ruarua nei e au, hei kupu whakam\u0101rama m\u014D te whakapapa o Mauao. He taonga a ia i konei i Aotearoa nei, i te ao tonu n\u0101 t\u014Dna \u0101huatanga, \u0101-huakanga nei. He aha i p\u0113r\u0101 ai? I te mea ko ia te kaitiaki o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, ng\u0101 h\u012Btori o ng\u0101 rau tau kua hipa, \u0101, ka noho ng\u0101 k\u014Drero ki a ia \u0101 ng\u0101 tau kei mua i te aroaro. N\u014D reira, ko ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki te whiwhinga o Mauao i ng\u0101 tau kotahi mano, waru rau, waru tekau, he k\u014Drero pakupaku noa iho, ki \u0113r\u0101 o te whakapapa roa nei \u0113 k\u014Drerohia ake nei e au i n\u0101 tatanei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKoia te mate.  Anei te maunga, anei te taonga o ng\u0101 iwi o Tauranga Moana. N\u014D r\u0101tou t\u0113r\u0101 maunga, kaua n\u014D Ng\u0101puhi, kaua n\u014D Te Arawa, kaua n\u014D te Karauna, n\u014D reira, he aha t\u0101 r\u0101tou e p\u012Brangi nei? Ko Mauao. He maunga n\u014D ng\u0101 iwi o Tauranga Moana. Madam Speaker, i te ao M\u0101ori, ko ng\u0101 maunga, ko ng\u0101 awa, ko ng\u0101 wai tuku kiri, he tohu rangatira o te iwi. E tohu nei \u0113r\u0101 i te rohe p\u014Dtae, i ng\u0101 taonga, i te mana o te iwi. Ka whakaae t\u0113tahi iwi ki te tuku i t\u014Dna mana ki tangata k\u0113? E K\u0101o! Kore rawa! Koia te p\u016Btake o t\u0113nei kupu o te raupatu, ar\u0101, he whenua i pakangatia e te tangata. Ki te kore, kua murua, \u0101, ehara i te mea he tauhou a ng\u0101i M\u0101ori ki t\u0113nei mea te muru whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHoi an\u014D, me hoki mai au ki a Mauao. Ahakoa p\u0113hea ng\u0101 hiahia me ng\u0101 t\u016Bmanako o te tangata whenua, ahakoa ko te h\u012Btori, ahakoa he taonga a Mauao ki te tangata whenua, e ai ki t\u0101 te pire nei, ka noho tonu a Mauao an\u014D nei, n\u014D te Karauna te mana. P\u0113nei t\u0101 \u0113tahi kaik\u014Drero i k\u012B ai, m\u0101 t\u0113nei pire ka riro ko te taitara o te whenua o Mauao ki ng\u0101 kaitiaki o te Mauao Trust, kia puritia tonutia m\u014D Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui me Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga engari, ko t\u014Dna mana, ka noho tonu te mana ki te Karauna. Hoi an\u014D, he aha te p\u016Btake o ng\u0101 \u0101wangawanga o Tauranga Moana? Ar\u0101, koia t\u0113r\u0101, ko te mana o Mauao i ng\u0101 ringaringa o te karauna. He kawa tonu te k\u014Drero o te w\u0101hanga tuawhitu ki ng\u0101 kaituku k\u014Dorero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHe aha i te p\u016Btake o t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hanga? Ko taua k\u014Drero r\u0101 m\u014D te mana o Mauao engari, me mihi au ki te komiti wh\u0101iti n\u0101 r\u0101tou tonu i \u016Bkua t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hanga ka mutu, i hangaia t\u0113tahi w\u0101hanga hou, ar\u0101, te mea tuawaru. He kawa tonu te k\u014Drero te w\u0101hanga tuawhitu ki ng\u0101 kaituku k\u014Drero. He aha te p\u016Btake o t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hanga? Ko taua k\u014Drero r\u0101, ko te mana o Mauao. Engari me mihi au ki te komiti wh\u0101iti n\u0101 r\u0101tou tonu i \u016Bkui t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hanga i hangai i t\u0113tahi w\u0101hanga hou. He painga an\u014D r\u0101 o t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hanga? Hoi an\u014D, \u0101e. Ehara i te mea i eke ki te taumata i wawatatia mai engari, kei te pai. Ka noho a Mauao hei whenua r\u0101hui, he whenua ka tiakina e te Minita Take Tiaki Whenua. M\u0101 tana tari tonu e tiaki. Engari, kua tukuna e te Minita t\u014Dna mana ki te Kaunihera o T\u0101one o Tauranga Moana. Koi nei te take kua karangahia nei t\u0113nei pire, he Claytons bill. E ai ki t\u0101 w\u0113tahi, ko te \u0101t\u0101rangi o te maunga ka noho i ng\u0101 ringaringa o te iwi engari, ka noho te p\u016Btake ki te Karauna. Koia nei m\u0101tou o te t\u014Drangap\u016B M\u0101ori e p\u0101tai nei, he aha i kore ai ng\u0101 iwi e toru o Tauranga Moana i riro i te mana me te tikanga whakahaere, ko te tikanga whakahaere takirua r\u0101nei, ki t\u014D r\u0101tou ake maunga? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u0100e, ko te t\u016Bmanako ka mahi tahi, mahi takirua r\u0101nei engari, ko wai ka m\u014Dhio, ko wai ka hua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMe mihi r\u0101 ki ng\u0101 iwi e k\u014Drerohia ake nei, i kaha akiaki nei i t\u0113nei take. Ahakoa ko ng\u0101 uauatanga, kua ngana nei koutou ki te kimi i te huarahi pai, huarahi ng\u0101wari m\u014D Tauranga Moana. Me mihi au ki a koutou o Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui me Waitaha m\u014D \u014D koutou w\u0101nanga tahi me te kaunihera o te t\u0101one o Tauranga. Kua kite nei koutou, ko t\u0113r\u0101 i whakaaetia e te Karauna he mea whakaiti ko t\u0101 koutou noho hei kaitiaki m\u014D Mauao. He pai k\u0113 ake te whakatau o Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga i t\u0101 koutou tuhinga i te marama o Here-turi-k\u014Dk\u0101 i te tau kua hipa ki te Minita. Anei te k\u014Drero: \u201CThe process thus far has been seriously flawed and our people have been alienated because the mana of our iwi has not been respected. Even so, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga has risen above those difficulties as a sign of goodwill and in an effort to be part of a solution that will work well for Tauranga Moana.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMe k\u012B an\u014D au, ko te mana o Mauao kei te p\u016Btake o t\u0113nei k\u014Drero. Ki t\u0101 te Kaunihera M\u0101ori o Aotearoa me whakahoki kore here te Maunga Tapu o Tauranga Moana ki nga iwi o Tauranga Moana. Ko te Poari nei o Mauao tonu me k\u012B, ko t\u014D r\u0101tou waha k\u014Drero a Kihi Ng\u0101tai n\u0101na i whakatakoto \u014D r\u0101tou whakaaro m\u014D te pire nei. Hei t\u0101na, k\u0101ore te mana me te mauri o Mauao i tukuna e te iwi ki te Karauna. N\u014D reira hei t\u0101na, whakahokia te mana whakahaere ki te iwi, m\u0101 r\u0101tou tonu e whakatinana i ng\u0101 moemoe\u0101 a kui m\u0101, a koro m\u0101. Engari ka turi tonu mai te Karauna. Ar\u0101 n\u014D te K\u014Dmihana for Social Justice n\u014D te h\u0101hi Katorika i Kirikiriroa. Ko t\u0101na, whakahokia tika tonu atu te mana o Mauao ki ng\u0101 kaitiaki o Tauranga Moana. N\u014D reira, ko ng\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B e toru, he r\u014Dp\u016B M\u0101ori, he r\u014Dp\u016B h\u0101hi, M\u0101ori hoki, e whakaaro nui nei m\u014D te h\u0101pori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHoi an\u014D e te Whare, hei whakak\u014Dpani i taku k\u014Drero, me p\u0113nei rawa te k\u014Drero, ka tautoko te T\u014Drangap\u016B M\u0101ori \u012B t\u0113nei pire n\u0101 runga i te whakaaetanga o ng\u0101 iwi e toru. Kai a r\u0101tou te kupu k\u014Drero whakamutunga, ko t\u0101 matou ko Te T\u014Drangap\u016B M\u0101ori he tautoko, he tautoko, he tautoko engari, he w\u0101 t\u014Dna pea tonoa mai ng\u0101 whakatipuranga ki te whakatutuki i te moemoe\u0101 kia hoki mai te mana o Mauao ki a koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u201CKoia r\u0101 e rongo, whakairia ki runga t\u016Bturu o whiti whakamaua kia t\u012Bna,  hui e.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to us, the House, and to you, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, and Waitaha; indeed, Tauranga Harbour, greetings. Welcome, welcome. Welcome to you with your many deaths lying there on your marae. Let me express it this way: allow them to slumber there in the long sleep and united in the heavens, while we, the living, remain bonded here to each other. So, greetings, greetings, and greetings to you all, my leaders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMembers should note that my address will take a somewhat different form, so that the whole House understands it, but the first part will be totally in M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMy leaders, we are here today to honour Mauao, standing majestically and rocklike, which hears the tides ebbing and flowing upon its sides as it stands fixed there between \u014Ctanewainuku and P\u016Bwhenua. My leaders, today we pay homage to the unique place of Mauao as it stands majestically like a sentinel and hears the ebbs and flows of the tide on its sides, fixed by the morning light as a significant marker of yours, Ng\u0101i te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, and Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, between \u014Ctanewainuku and P\u016Bwhenua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe return of the ownership of Mauao has been a long and difficult one that has been in progress for well over a century, dating back to the 1880s when this sacred mountain was acquired by the Crown. \u201CAcquired\u201D means \u201Ccame to possess it\u201D. From what I can see, the Crown has little knowledge about the greater history of Mauao\u2014a history that archaeologists tell us can be dated back to about 4 million years ago, which came about as the result of a volcanic explosion. More recently, about 65,000 years ago, volcanic ash deposits from \u014Ckataina, Taup\u014D, M\u0101roa, and T\u016Bhua helped to form the lower slopes of Mauao. So into the modern day, with  evidence of occupation on Mauao between 1280 and 1500 AD. There are recorded histories and archaeological artifacts from the three defended p\u0101: the summit p\u0101 of Ranginui, the western one of Kinonui, and Maunganui P\u0101. This generation retains stories sourced back to between 1625 and 1750, right up to the battle of Kokowai. Storage pits, whalebone clubs found on the northern coast, and obsidian core sourced from within the flanks of Mauao, show that people lived here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWhat I have just said is but a glimpse into the extraordinary whakapapa associated with Mauao. It is known nationally and internationally for its significance as an archaeological landscape. Why is that? It is because Mauao is the guardian of the history, and the stories will stay with him in the future. So in the midst of this context, then, the date of 1880, pales into insignificance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAnd that is the problem. Here is the mountain. It is the mountain of the tribes of Tauranga Harbour\u2014not of Ng\u0101puhi, Te Arawa, and the Crown. So why would the Crown want to own it? This is Mauao, for sure, the mountain of Tauranga Harbour. In M\u0101oridom, mountains, rivers, and waterways are chiefly symbols of the people. They symbolise the tribal boundaries, treasures, and autonomy of the people. Would one allow one\u2019s authority to pass to another? No, never. This is the reason for this word \u201Craupatu\u201D [confiscation], land fought over by man. If it is not fought over, it is confiscated. And M\u0101ori are not strangers to confiscation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo let me return to Mauao now. Despite the wishes and aspirations of the people of the land\u2014the history, the sacred significance of Mauao to them\u2014according to this bill, Mauao remains in Crown ownership.  As other speakers have noted, the bill vests the fee simple estate of Mauao historic reserve in the trustees of the Mauao Trust to hold on behalf of Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui and Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo what is causing concern in Tauranga Harbour? It is the ownership of Mauao in Crown hands. The transfer of Mauao is stated as being \u201Cto assist the Crown\u2019s objective of building healthy relationships with Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga and Waitaha\u201D. So we supported the recommendation from the select committee that clause 7 of this bill should be deleted. This is the statement, you will recall,  that the Mauao historic reserve must be treated as if the fee simple estate in the reserve were still vested in the Crown. Submitters found clause 7 distasteful. In what respect? It was the part that refers to ownership of Mauao. But we commend the select committee, which deleted that clause and inserted a new one. Was that beneficial? To some extent, yes. Even if it did not achieve quite what was being sought, it is fine. Mauao remains a reserve land under the Minister of Conservation for his department to adminster. But the Minister has given his powers to the Tauranga City Council. That is the reason this bill has been referred to as a Clayton\u2019s bill. To some, only the shadow of the maunga is retained in iwi hands, while the substance remains with the Crown. So we in the M\u0101ori Party will continue to ask why it is that the three iwi of Tauranga Harbour have not transferred any ownership rights, including the right to administer or at least co-administer their own mountain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EYes, the hope is that they will work as one or alongside each other. Who knows what the outcome will be, who will benefit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge and truly pay tribute to the integrity of the iwi involved, who have persevered with a less than perfect process, determined always to work out a solution that will work for Tauranga Moana. You particularly, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, and Waitaha in your negotiations with the Tauranga City Council. You have recognised all along that what the Crown has agreed to undermines your role as guardians for Mauao. Your views summed up in a letter to the Minister in August last year are commendable: \u201CThe process thus far has been seriously flawed and our people have been alienated because the mana of our iwi has not been respected. Even so, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga has risen above those difficulties as a sign of goodwill and in an effort to be part of a solution that will work well for Tauranga Moana.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI say again that ownership of Mauao is at the core of this address. The New Zealand M\u0101ori Council urges that the sacred mountain of Tauranga Harbour be returned unconditionally.  The Mauao Trust itself, represented by Kihi Ng\u0101tai, put the case in a most forceful simplicity. The standing and life force of Mauao were never ceded by iwi to the Crown, and, accordingly, the Crown should return the management to iwi so that the dreams of elders could be realised. But the Crown remained deaf. The Commission for Social Justice of the Catholic Diocese of Hamilton urged that ownership of Mauao be returned to the guardians of Tauranga Harbour. So the three organisations, one pan-tribal, another a trust one, and the third religious, all have the best interests of the community at heart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo in ending this address, I want to assure the House that the M\u0101ori Party supports this bill, because the three iwi groups agree to it. The final word is with them. All we, the M\u0101ori Party, can do is to support it and support it, but there will come a time perhaps when they will send us the next generation to fulfil the dream of ownership of Mauao returning to you. [Closing incantation] Thank you to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad025bdeace34a0f8614e0b057f1236b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad025bdeace34a0f8614e0b057f1236b\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E Nei an\u014D te mihi maioha ki ng\u0101 iwi o Tauranga Moana kua uru mai ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare. N\u014D reira, Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, me Waitaha, tenei te mihi atu ki a koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[A fond greeting to the people of Tauranga Harbour who have entered this House; so to you, Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranginui, Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga, and Waitaha, my greetings to you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThey say that there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come. Time has certainly played its part in this particular issue. It gives me great pleasure to be able to speak to the Mauao Historic Reserve Vesting Bill. At times like this members of Parliament feel a level of trepidation. It is a time when people will bring their collective understanding of New Zealand\u2019s history, and will have to put themselves in a place to ask whether the pursuance and reaching of agreements such as this is in the best interests of this country. Madam Assistant Speaker, as a teacher you would know\u2014as many in this House would know\u2014that we have a very imperfect history, and that over time it has been a very difficult task to try to rectify the historical injustices that have occurred. But as I said previously, time has played its part in this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI commend the people of Tauranga Moana, who have long sought the resolution of a number of difficult issues in their region. I acknowledge those who are no longer with us, and also those who are currently with us, for their determination to ensure that the outstanding matters for Tauranga Moana can be resolved. This is a way of moving forward. However, we should not pass over lightly the severity of the history that has been experienced by the people of Tauranga Moana. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI do not want to tell the history of Tauranga Moana\u2014I am not from that area\u2014but what I do share is a sense of commonality with the people from that area at a tribal level. The confiscations in Tauranga Moana in the 1860s affected them, just as they affected the people of Waikato, Taranaki, and Te Whakat\u014Dhea. A number of outstanding matters must be resolved within this generation, and we see in this bill a small step. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe point was made by the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs that this is not a Treaty settlement. One has to ask oneself why this is not a Treaty settlement. It is for this very simple reason: it is a step towards trying to resolve something bigger that must be done and will be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI am proud to be a part of a Government that has unequivocally tried to resolve historical injustices, from the establishment of the Waitangi Tribunal and making claims able to be heard at the Waitangi Tribunal retrospectively to 1840, to pursuing with unequivocal vigour the continuance of the Treaty settlement programme. So I foreshadow that although this is one step towards that resolution for the people of Tauranga Moana, they are also confronting broader outstanding issues that they must see resolved in this generation, and soon, we may hope, that will be done with the absolute vigour, determination, and commitment of all the parties involved. That is what is required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EPeople can make politics about this particular bill and what it does not achieve, but every parliamentarian in this House knows, and most certainly the Government knows, that it is no use promising the world if one cannot deliver. The important thing to recognise here, taking into account all the concerns that have been brought before of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, is that this bill is a step towards seeing those broader issues resolved. I commend the members of the select committee, because they put a lot of hard work and effort into ensuring that the intent of this agreement was reflected in the wording of the legislation, and previous speakers have made that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI would highlight the comment made by the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs that the door is still open on the future management of Mauao as a historic reserve. He said that very clearly in this House, so anyone who walks away thinking otherwise should not be confused, because that statement was made by the Minister himself. That signals that there is every opportunity in the ongoing management of Mauao to ensure that those interest rights are protected absolutely, not just for the iwi of Tauranga Moana but also for other people in that region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EBob Clarkson made a very interesting comment to his constituents of Tauranga Moana. I am sure that, notwithstanding his views about what is not being achieved in this bill, his children and their children will recognise that reclaiming the name of that historical maunga will itself fundamentally transform the way people see the history of Tauranga and how that city will be shaped into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThis is a forward step. It might raise a bit of tension in a number of areas, but the common thing that must be understood from this debate is that it is a necessary step to be able to resolve injustices and to say: \u201CWe need a lot of people at the table to be able to go forward, albeit it is difficult.\u201D Is it not an ideal situation to have the council and the iwi sitting at the table to determine what is happening in their rohe so that iwi are at the front end of the decision making and are not waiting for someone else to make the decision about what is happening on their maunga? Is that not a good step forward? Would we not want to try to support that kind of thing? Would we not want to try to support iwi being able to not only have a say but also make a decision about the fundamental landmarks within their rohe? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMy contribution is only short: he iti t\u0113nei n\u0101ku ki te kaupapa; but the main thing I wanted to ensure, really, is that some of the rhetoric offered in this debate does not lose sight of the real intent, which is that this bill is a step towards something that I believe will be much bigger, that it will require effort, and that it will not be easy for the Crown or the people of Tauranga Moana, but it is a necessary larger step that we must take. It foreshadows that in the future development of Tauranga City people will have to work together. We cannot get away from that, whether or not people like it. People will have to understand each other\u2019s priorities, whether they are in regard to the management of this maunga or to other things happening in that rohe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EBut, more fundamentally, there is a reclaiming of history in that region that will not deny to any young person in that rohe\u2014M\u0101ori, P\u0101keh\u0101, or otherwise\u2014the strong, proud tradition of the people of that rohe. People will better understand it, know it, and talk about it in their classrooms as part of re-growing a sense of pride in not only their traditional heritage in that area but also their future opportunities for how things can go forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAs I said, one always stands with great trepidation around issues like this, but I am proud, again, to say that a Labour-led Government continues with a programme like this, knowing that it will build a future, that it is about taking people forward, and that we all have our part to play to be able to reach that end. I am often disheartened by the fact that many parties in this House do not support, for example, a Treaty settlements programme in the same way that others do, and that those parties have demonstrated it in this House many times when they have not voted for a number of critical bills, like this bill, that can take people forward. It is a bit disheartening, but that is on their conscience, not mine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to be able to support this small step forward. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002284bd5f79349e40dabdf22258ecc12b7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284bd5f79349e40dabdf22258ecc12b7b\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will be very brief because I know it is the desire of the House that we vote on this bill before the dinner break. On behalf of the National Party I send very warm greetings to the people of Ng\u0101i Te Rangi, Ng\u0101ti Ranganui, and Ng\u0101ti P\u016Bkenga who have travelled from Tauranga to be with us today. I think they have seen a House that is basically bipartisan on this issue. They have witnessed some very dignified and statesmanlike oratory from people like my friend from the M\u0101ori Party, and a very fine contribution, albeit somewhat discursive and, toward the end, somewhat partisan, from the previous speaker. A bipartisan approach is the kind of approach we have had to this legislation, and the Minister\u2019s oafish and incoherent outburst a few minutes ago does not really reflect the good team effort by all members of the House on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee and during the Committee stage in trying to deal with this interesting issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThere are only a couple of points I want to make. The first is to note how fortunate we are as members of Parliament to be able to look at these sorts of issues. We all know the Mount, as it is known in P\u0101keh\u0101 parlance, but those of us who were on the select committee were truly privileged to get an insight into its history and to begin to understand something of what this issue was all about. Secondly, I pay tribute to the member for Tauranga, Bob Clarkson, who was effective and caring on this issue. He is actually the one who, in his practical way, pushed changes to the wording. I can hear the New Zealand First members complaining about that because they do not always like the reality when it comes to Bob Clarkson. What we see is what we get, and what we got in this case was very good indeed. He is the one who was interested and helped forge the changes to what is now clause 8(3) so that the language was less offensive. I think he is to be congratulated on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThat is really all I want to say. Amid the very partisan mentality we have in the House this year, largely because the Government knows it is on the way out, we have had a period when we have been able to be bipartisan and work well on this legislation. I enjoy working with the Labour members of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. They are good blokes. They are atypical when it comes to the Labour Party because they know the difference between acting in the public good and the national interest, and in the partisan interests of the Labour Party. I say to the good people of Tauranga Moana who are here today that they have not got a Treaty settlement. We are not debating that at the moment, largely because for 8 years this Government sat on its hands and did nothing in terms of Treaty settlements. But I promise them that an incoming National Government will deal with their Treaty settlement with zeal, with idealism, and with the same enthusiasm that has been exhibited in the way the House has dealt with the Mauao Historic Reserve Vesting Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c06f397c34454750b0b9d40e07005a1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c06f397c34454750b0b9d40e07005a1e\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I too want to say welcome to the folks from Tauranga Moana. What they are seeing tonight is something we do not see every day in this House, and that is a bipartisan approach to an issue. I am happy to say I have enjoyed the process that the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee has worked through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI am of the generation outside of Tauranga Moana who did not even know the name of the Mount. I was brought up in South Auckland knowing that there was a place down in Tauranga called the Mount. Earlier on the very day we went to the select committee hearing in Tauranga, my wife and I took a ride out to the Mount for the first time ever. [Interruption] No, I was not allowed in. It cost too much. I got a feel for the place for the first time, and I think everybody in New Zealand should, at least once in their short life, visit that place called Mauao. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThe select committee process was an easy one. It was easy because of the bipartisan approach we take on most things in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. It has never been easier to find a way through to some common ground than I think happened in respect of this bill. So I want to praise all the members of the select committee, including our chairperson, who, from day one, said he had a conflict of interest. He pointed out he was from that area and used to run up and down the Mount in his very, very, very young days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThis is not a Treaty settlement. It is obvious it is not a Treaty settlement, because it was done very, very quickly indeed. If it had been a Treaty settlement, it might have taken quite some more time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ECan I say to the people of Tauranga Moana that this is not the end of the matter. Obviously there is a lot more work to be done, and we on this side of the House expect them to be knocking on our door some time after the next election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ESo thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. As I have been asked by the former member for the area to sit down, I will take my seat. But once again I congratulate the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on its good and hardy work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u0022adee2c443f7348688ed3d886d71566c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adee2c443f7348688ed3d886d71566c3\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Minister of State):\u003C/span\u003E Otir\u0101 kei te Kaihaut\u016B m\u0113 p\u0113nei r\u0101 te k\u014Drero m\u0101ku: \u201CPapaki t\u016B ana ng\u0101 tai ki Mauao, whakanukuhia, whakanekenekehia. I whiua reretia a T\u016B\u0101wahinerua ki te wai, ki tai wiw\u012B, ki tai waw\u0101, ki te whaiao ki te ao m\u0101rama, \u0101, tihei mauria or\u0101.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EMe te huri au ki \u0101ku iwi mai r\u0101 i a Tauranga Moana, n\u0101 r\u0101tou te kaupapa i k\u014Drerohia e t\u0101tou i roto i te Whare i t\u0113nei p\u014D. \u0100, kua tau nei ng\u0101 mihi ki a koutou, ehara m\u0101 t\u014D koutou p\u014Dtiki pononga koutou hei whakatau. N\u014D reira, kai aku hoa P\u0101remata, Parekura koutou r\u0101 i ng\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B t\u014Drangap\u016B katoa o te Whare nei, n\u0101 koutou nei ng\u0101 iwi o Tauranga Moana i whakatau, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EHei k\u014Drero an\u014D m\u0101ku kei te Kaihaut\u016B, e p\u0113nei ana, m\u0101 Tauranga Moana tonu hei k\u014Drero i \u0101na k\u014Drero, ehara m\u0101 t\u0113tahi atu. N\u014D reira, n\u0101 runga i t\u0113n\u0101 ka huri au ki te reo o tauiwi kia m\u0101rama ai te Whare i ng\u0101 t\u016B \u0101huatanga, ng\u0101 t\u016Bmomo k\u014Drero kei roto i t\u0113nei kaupapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E[Indeed, Madam Assistant Speaker, there is a saying that I would like to quote, and it goes like this: \u201CThe surging tides rise up, beating and crashing upon Mauao to shift and move it. T\u016B\u0101wahinerua was cast upon the tides from near and far and to the world of light and understanding; and behold there was life.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E I turn to my people from Tauranga Harbour, whose proposal is the focus of our debate tonight. You have been acknowledged and welcomed\u2014something that a humble servant of yours is not entitled to do. So to you my fellow parliamentarians, Parekura and all other parties of this House, you welcomed the people from Tauranga, and I gratefully acknowledge you three times over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThere is something else I would like to say, Madam Assistant Speaker, and it is this: Tauranga Moana is the only one that can speak for itself and relate its stories\u2014no one else. On that basis, I will turn to English so that all aspects relating to this bill are clear to the House.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EIt is obvious that we are in an election year, given the level of campaigning that is going on in the House this evening in relation to this bill. Is it not incredible that something that should be so easy to vote on in this House took so long to be brought here? We have heard stories of journeys, of experiences, and of the technical aspects relating to this particular piece of legislation. I want to talk about a journey, as well. I will talk about a journey of a great mountain, who once stood in the midst of many great mountains. It is the story of a journey of the mountain down through the landscape of Tauranga\u2014the reshaping of landscape, the forming of rivers, and eventually the forming of what is commonly known as Te Awanui, or Tauranga Moana, coming to rest at the mouth of the Tauranga Harbour\u2014and the journeys of the patupaiarehe, who guided the mountain on his journey. When he arrived at the final point I am sure he thought his journey was over. So he thought, but it was not to be that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EMauao has had very many experiences and has witnessed many events. He has seen the coming of the great migration or settlement, subsequent migrations, and conflicts with people from other lands\u2014from other corners of the world. He has experienced love and joy, happiness and sadness. But the most recent of his experiences has been the one of alienation, and that point has been discussed in considerable detail in the House this evening. I know that some people are hugely familiar with the history of Mauao, but the people of Mauao, the people of Tauranga Moana, have an intimate relationship with this maunga. I have heard statements that kua ngaro te mana o te iwi o Tauranga Moana ki t\u014D r\u0101tou maunga. [the Tauranga Harbour people have lost ownership of their mountain.] That is not the case. Mauao is our maunga iringa k\u014Drero. We relate to it in our oratory; we relate to him in our oratory. Our mana on our maunga is there in perpetuity, regardless of the actions of the Crown and its attempts to sever our relationship with our historic iconic landmarks. I want to make that point clear in the House this evening. This vesting of Mauao in the people of Mauao is considered nothing more, and it should not be considered anything more, than an attempt by the Crown to develop positive relationships with the iwi of Tauranga Moana, and I believe that to some degree that has been achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the contributions made by very many people within this House. I acknowledge the contribution made by the Speaker of the House, the Hon Margaret Wilson, at the time she was the Attorney-General and the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, in acknowledging the requests of Tauranga Moana kaum\u0101tua and kuia for the return of this great, majestic mountain to them, and also in her subsequent instruction to officials to make this transfer happen. At that point it became very obvious that the Crown was committed to the transfer. The detail about how that happened created a bit of angst amongst many, including Crown officials and iwi representatives, but I believe that through a robust process of debate and consultation we have managed to resolve many of those concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EIt was mentioned earlier in the House this evening that clause 7 basically did not acknowledge the true relationship that Tauranga Moana iwi had with Mauao, and that the Crown refused to hear the request for either the deletion or the rewording of the particular clause. It is important in this House that Hansard record the truth, and it is my obligation and my responsibility to make sure that the truth is heard. That is not the truth. The Crown did listen to requests and approaches from iwi to reconsider the wording of clause 7, because iwi found it offensive. To that end, Crown Law offered a draft statement on how the wording could be amended to accommodate the concerns of the iwi. However, when that statement was presented to the people of Tauranga, the iwi of Tauranga, at the last hui I attended when I was in Tauranga, it was rejected. Along with the proposed rewording, Crown Law also sent a warning that any attempt to water down clause 7 would only subject the trustees of the Mauao Trust to possible litigation in terms of public safety. I know that Hansard will record this accurate statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the kaum\u0101ta and kuia of Tauranga Moana who have come a long way this evening to experience and witness the final journey of this very, very long-standing and outstanding issue, with regard to the return of Mauao to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003ENg\u0101 iwi o Tauranga Moana kua pau te w\u0101 ki ahau n\u0101 Te T\u014Drangap\u016B M\u0101ori te h\u0113. Kai te pai, kai a r\u0101tou t\u0113n\u0101. N\u014D reira n\u0101 runga i t\u0113n\u0101 me k\u012B, hoki pai atu ki te hau k\u0101inga i runga i te m\u014Dhio kua tutuki r\u0101 \u0101 r\u0101tou h\u012Bkoitanga o t\u014D t\u0101tou maunga ki a t\u0101tou an\u014D. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E[To you, the people of Tauranga, the time given to me has expired. The M\u0101ori Party is responsible for that. But that is fine. They can sort that out. Let me wish you instead a safe return home, knowing that the journey that was made to ensure that our mountain is back with us again has been achieved. Greetings.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EKia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EWaiata\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.01 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223b9354acae7b4aad96ad02f951352c0d\u0022\u003EDebate on Crown Entities, Public Organisations, and State Enterprises\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002252a8f4923f924f2896324aea450d9366\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224ee59cb63b00491aa6b29e2c92bab9ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000447\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 15 April.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u00223624c793c1e549acabebba18526d2414\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223624c793c1e549acabebba18526d2414\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: When the Committee was last considering this matter it had completed 1 of the 3 hours allocated for the debate. Two hours therefore remain. The debate on the performance of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises is a series of debates on individual financial reviews of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises as reported by select committees. The debates on the individual financial reviews should be relevant to their performance in the 2006-07 financial year and their current operations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EA member may have no more than two calls on each financial review. A list of the financial reviews available for debate is appended to the Order Paper. Reports on entities yet to be reported, or those debated earlier, cannot be debated. I understand that members have indicated the Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises they wish to debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002240175c2f868943939476c1b1342d77d4\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000451\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002200922a0708794cb0b7694e25c13f6448\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Teachers Council\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00223669713004e44eb4a53d18de8afe9629\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223669713004e44eb4a53d18de8afe9629\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity to stand up and speak about the financial review of the New Zealand Teachers Council for 2006-07. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe first thing I wish to raise in terms of the review by the Finance and Expenditure Committee and the report back to the Committee is that it is incredibly unusual\u2014certainly in my relatively short time in this Parliament, and from what I have heard from my colleagues who have been here a lot longer than I have\u2014to have in a report back to the Committee such a statement as: \u201CSome of us are dissatisfied with the quality of the responses by the New Zealand Teachers Council, and consider that they were evasive in their responses.\u201D It was generally the consensus among the select committee members that the Teachers Council was evasive in its responses with regard to a number of issues of utmost importance, which are of relevance to this Committee and which I wish to raise in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe issue of serious misconduct must be of vital importance to all New Zealanders, because at the end of the day we are talking about our teachers. There have been many instances of misconduct that have concerned the House and indeed the general public during the 2006-07 financial year. During the financial review, the select committee asked when the Teachers Council is contacted about misconduct; what action it takes when it is contacted; whether the police are involved after there has been some sort of incident involving a teacher; and why the Teachers Council is not notified immediately and the teacher stood down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Teachers Council that immediate notification is usually the way things go, but we were certainly of the opinion\u2014and we discussed this with the Teachers Council\u2014that it should flag that a teacher is under investigation. That is not currently occurring when there may have been misconduct by a teacher\u2014serious conduct in some regards\u2014and that is of huge concern to schools across the board. We have heard in the last 12 months about teachers who have continued teaching even though they have been under investigation and some pretty hideous stuff has been going on. Fortunately, this is not happening too often\u2014not very often at all. I do not wish to be alarmist and say that misconduct is rampant out there, but a few examples have come up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EAlso of concern is the process around registration. The Teachers Council says it is awaiting legislation, so this is an opportunity for the Government to step up and do something relatively quickly\u2014even though it has had 8\u00BD years to do so. Here is the Minister of Education, Chris Carter, now. He will know that the council is awaiting legislation that will give it access to the Ministry of Education\u2019s payroll database so that it can determine which teachers do not have practising certificates. The Government really needs to remove the barriers so that the database can be much more easily accessed and we can know who is registered and who is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe process for overseas-trained teachers seeking New Zealand registration has been of some considerable concern to the select committee throughout the financial review process, and it is something that the committee will certainly be taking a bit more time over. The committee has talked about the process and its costs. Many, many instances have been mentioned. In fact, I have lost count of the amount of correspondence I have received with regard to early childhood, primary, and secondary school teachers who have come from the UK or Australia, for example, and who want to teach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EJust the other day I spoke to a woman from Whangarei. We are missing out on some good teachers because the Teachers Council is taking so long to register overseas-trained teachers, and because it has not worked with the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to come up with some simple guidelines about what is and is not acceptable. The woman I spoke to the other day had moved from teaching into recruitment because it paid her something more worthwhile\u2014and she was not even on a full teacher\u2019s salary, because she was not registered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EIt amuses me that the UK and Australia take our trained teachers in a heartbeat\u2014particularly early childhood teachers, which is my area of interest. In fact, schools in the UK and Australia are actively recruiting our teachers, because they are clever enough to know that our teachers are smart and have been well trained. Our teachers can move to the UK or Australia and start teaching really quickly, but we in New Zealand are not in a situation where we can take any of those overseas-trained teachers, and we are not looking at what we can do about it. We have not come up with a solution, and that is a challenge that the Teachers Council has raised. It has said it has not been able to fix those problems. That is something for the Minister, and he has indicated recently that he is looking at the registration process for international teachers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022 data-id=\u0022f527dd69077a4fef82ca143b4cecefeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f527dd69077a4fef82ca143b4cecefeb\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the financial review of the New Zealand Teachers Council, I take the initial point made by Paula Bennett of the National Party about the quotation in the report back, which New Zealand First supports: \u201CSome of us are dissatisfied with the quality of the responses by the New Zealand Teachers Council, and consider that they were evasive in their responses.\u201D I have never heard a more surprising answer, and a more evasive response, than the answer to the question asked by Allan Peachey for the National Party. I made a note of what he asked the officials. He asked to whom they were responsible, and we could not seem to get a reply. It was quite extraordinary. There was a sort of dumbfounded silence, as if to say: \u201CHow dare you ask that question.\u201D; \u201CHow dare you, as members of Parliament, ask us\u2014officials, bureaucrats\u2014to whom we are responsible.\u201D I made a special note of that, and I was most concerned at their attitude. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EI was also concerned, initially, that staffing levels at the New Zealand Teachers Council had increased from 17 staff to 40 fulltime-equivalents, but, to be fair, the council is virtually self-funded, as I understand it. So it must be employing staff in response to the requests that are being made for registration. We cannot be too critical of the council for having a bigger staff, if we require the council to have a quick turn-round rate in so far as registering teachers is concerned. Looking at the council\u2019s responses in its report, I see that it has registered 10,537 new teachers, approved 16,769 renewals, processed 20,000-odd police vetting applications, and\u2014I especially note this next point\u2014consulted with the profession on the amendment of key policies: \u201Cgood character and fit to be a teacher; limited authority to teach; and language proficiency.\u201D I have been concerned about the need to improve the quality of the teaching profession, to get new people into the profession, and to encourage people to come in and be part of what is one of the most important sectors of our community\u2014the teaching profession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThere has been a report issued about becoming a teacher in the 21st century that proposes that the New Zealand Teachers Council and key stakeholders in the sector work together to determine the process for assuring the quality of graduates and those teachers admitted to the profession, through provisional registration. It also proposes that employers\u2019 and other stakeholders\u2019 needs are reflected in these processes. There was some criticism in that report about concerns being expressed that many newly qualified primary and secondary school teachers lack knowledge about the curriculum, pedagogical content, up-to-date assessment and evaluation methodology, and management or guidance skills. It states that initial teacher education providers \u201Care in a difficult position, because there has been no explicit statement of what newly qualified teachers are expected to know and to be able to do.\u201D So in considering that, and looking at the answer that came through on \u201Cproposition 4\u201D, there seemed to be support for that proposal\u2014there were 37 in favour and only two opposed to the proposal. In considering that question, the first thing that the stakeholders will need to do is address the notion of quality. There seems to be some concern about that, and I heard Mr Peachey being slightly critical of Paula Bennett about the quality of teachers and suchlike. I quote again from the report: \u201CThe role of the Teachers Council and its relationship with providers was mentioned by a number of submitters. The Teachers Council was seen by some to be under-resourced\u201D\u2014which seems rather strange\u2014\u201Dnot representative or responsive to providers, or not accountable enough. Some submitters agreed that there needed to be more robust \u2018entry to profession\u2019 standards at full registration.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThere was also a \u201Cproposition 7\u201D, and I should make the point that the people who responded to it said that there needed to be more research into teachers\u2019 status, better sharing of information and findings between sectors, and increasing pay. The issue of pay is always a problem for the profession at all levels, and our teachers go overseas because, on the face of it, they can get paid better. I repeat the view that perhaps those with student loans should be allowed to work off their loans over 3 years, or so, to keep those people in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8d5dd164b0848c4b77485681d3d8300\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8d5dd164b0848c4b77485681d3d8300\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the issues raised around the Teachers Council and around teaching in general. I begin my remarks by noting that yesterday in Parliament we had a very interesting education lunch where 20 teachers were recognised for their outstanding contribution to education in New Zealand, in receiving the excellence in education award, which is done annually. I spoke, as education Minister, at that lunch and I noted that New Zealand teachers generally are among the world\u2019s best. That is very much evidenced by the fact that New Zealand 15-year-olds score very highly in the OECD Programme for International Student Assessment. We are the top-scoring country in the English-speaking world in literacy, numeracy, and science; and only Finland, Korea, and Singapore beat us overall. But we are in the top layer of achievers, or, at least, should I say, some of our 15-year-olds are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003ESo we have some real quality teaching and learning going on in our schools, and, of course, even if one is the best, one still wants to do better still. We are talking about educating the next generation of New Zealanders, both for their own potential and for the potential of our nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EThe Teachers Council is an important component in ensuring that teacher standards in New Zealand are the very best. The Teachers Council has been dealing with quite a range of issues such as disciplinary matters involving teachers who contravene regulations around their work in schools, and although it is a very small number, nevertheless it does happen; and also competency issues, and the registration of beginning teachers in New Zealand, and overseas-trained teachers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EAs the previous speaker, Mr Jones, just noted, there were about 8,858 applications for the various categories of teacher registration during the last quarter. The speed of processing of teacher applications has increased considerably, which is a very heartening sign. About 90 percent of applicants are processed within 6 weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EA number of speakers mentioned the delays, sometimes, around the registration of overseas-trained teachers. Generally there is not a problem, but where there is a problem of equivalency, often in the training process, then there are some difficulties around getting a speedy resolution as to whether that teacher is competent to teach in a New Zealand school. I am sure no member of this House would want to see any child in New Zealand being taught by somebody who did not have the competent pedagogical skills to be able to teach properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EI know that Madam Chair, like me, was a teacher for many years before coming into Parliament, and I see a number of other ex-teachers sitting in the Chamber. We all know that the best possible resource in education is a skilled teacher. No matter how much is put in by way of equipment\u2014information and communications technology infrastructure, reading materials, equipment for teachers\u2014still the most effective learning outcomes are created by effective teachers. So we want the very best teachers teaching in front of New Zealand students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EThe Teachers Council has a very important role to make sure that any overseas-trained teacher has sufficient skills to be registered in New Zealand. To make that process flow more easily, we have ability for a temporary teaching registration to be in place. The individuals are given those, and they are able to upskill themselves to reach equivalency and to be able to be effective teachers in the New Zealand teaching environment. So that is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EWe also have a little bit of an obstacle, sometimes, where we have overseas-trained teachers, getting overseas institutions to respond, to send verification of qualifications. I have been working very closely with the Teachers Council to try to make sure that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, the body that deals with registration of equivalency in qualifications, is working more closely. We have been having very regular meetings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EI have been getting regular reports, too, as I move around schools, particularly those in rural areas where there are shortages in areas like technology and second-language teaching and they are unable to get sufficient specialists in those areas. Often overseas-trained teachers are keen for a lifestyle change in New Zealand, so rural areas, particularly the more remote ones in New Zealand, are often very attractive destinations for those teachers to live in. We need to make sure those teachers are registered and able to teach in our classrooms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EWe have also used the council to try to give greater guidance for beginning teachers, so a code has been developed so that teacher training providers\u2014the universities mostly, but not always\u2014have a greater clarity about the skills that a beginning teacher needs to take to the classroom. That has been a very important function of the New Zealand Teachers Council and I think it has done some excellent work there about making sure that our young beginning teachers have sufficient focus and sufficient skills to be able to be the most effective teachers they can be for young learners in our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EI would like to say that I feel the Teachers Council is going well, but, as we all know, every organisation can do better. I am working closely with it and I am working closely with the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to streamline these processes so that we can maximise the use of our migrant teacher community, give greater guidance to beginning teachers, and to make sure we have in place the structures to ensure that we have a quality teaching profession in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4124d3961e646a6b3508e1e602b4a25\u0022\u003ECanterbury District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec550594a472438389576ffea0872e0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec550594a472438389576ffea0872e0f\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (National\u2014Aoraki):\u003C/span\u003E I am grateful for this opportunity to debate the performance and current operations of the Canterbury District Health Board in its most recent financial year. To put this in context, the importance of this health board is that it is New Zealand\u2019s largest, it serves a wide geographical area and a large number of people, and it employs some 8,000\u2014I am not mistaken\u2014employees. So it is a very large provider\u2014and funder as well. It is a very important district health board in the context of the South Island\u2019s provision of health services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EThe audit report to the select committee noted two aspects of this district health board review where the grade for the district health board was \u201Cgood\u201D. Now \u201Cgood\u201D may sound OK but in fact \u201Cgood\u201D means that we recommend that improvements would be beneficial and that the entity addresses these. One aspect that I particularly want to make note of tonight is that our review of the board\u2019s procurement policy indicated that although there are areas of strength, it does not cover all the areas we would expect. Quite chillingly we recommend the inclusion of greater detail in a number of areas including fraud, conflict of interest, whole-of-life costs, risk management, and procurement planning and methods. Additionally, recommendations for improvement being beneficial to the entity were also around financial information systems and controls. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EThat was the gutsy audit side of things but in fact when we reviewed this district health board there was another picture. That particularly dry picture is not really the picture for the people of Canterbury\u2014the people who rely on this district health board for health services. The picture that they have had over the period under review is what they often read in the headlines and see in the devastating photographs in the media. And what is that picture? It is a picture of repeated headlines about gridlock\u2014the worst gridlock in the hospital\u2019s history. It is a picture that is also about problems with the emergency department, and of course they are both quite closely linked. The worst hospital gridlock is not only about patients but about staff. There may be 8,000 staff, but at the time that they were experiencing red gridlock there were 50 nursing vacancies. So serious was it that the district health board was trying to recruit some 60 British nurses to Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EIn fact the whole picture around New Zealand is very similar. We have 7,700 foreign-born nurses working here and a matching 7,500 New Zealand - born nurses living and working overseas. One nurse contacted the media and said that she and her colleagues were frightened for the services within Christchurch Hospital because she knew of times where the most senior nurse in charge on the ward was a bureau nurse\u2014a qualified nurse, yes, but with no experience of the ward\u2019s speciality, be it surgical or, in some cases, coronary care. There are 1,500 nursing graduates each year and about half of them are leaving to go overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EAlthough the Minister of Health in this Parliament is telling us there is no crisis, that is not quite the way staff see it. In fact Alan Pithie, the Canterbury District Health Board chief of medicine for medical and surgical services, said that this red gridlock is a crisis. This is exactly the symptom we have seen over and over again. This Government says there is no crisis. It does not listen to the doctors and nurses and it does not see them as part of the solution; it sees them just as part of the problem, and we repeatedly hear about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EHospital treatment figures were also in the headlines during the year under review. We found that when it came to triage levels, happily this hospital is not one of the two that are not meeting the most serious triage levels\u2014that is, patients who need to be dealt with immediately. In fact it is meeting that target 100 percent. But when we come to triage level 2\u2014that is, patients who should be seen within 10 minutes\u2014there is abject failure. Only 48 percent of those patients\u2014and in March they numbered 2,228\u2014were seen, so 1,114 were not seen within the required time frame. If we go to triage level 3 we see the same happening again\u2014only 49 percent were seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab08f6aad4ee4547b4c9aacf51477320\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab08f6aad4ee4547b4c9aacf51477320\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for the opportunity to briefly comment on the Canterbury District Health Board. The member is indeed correct; it is one of the largest health boards in the country and I think, overall, one of the better run health boards. It has a very competent board and, as far as I can tell, a competent management and clinical team. It has been the beneficiary, as have many other health boards, of the largest capital building programme in New Zealand\u2019s history, which has been mounted by this Government over the last 7 or 8 years, and it has, like the rest of the system, seen a significant increase in its baseline budget through the objective funding formula that is rolled out nationwide, which provides for an increment based on demographic change and forecasted costs. It is called FFT/Demo and is rolled out to all district health boards around the country, including Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe district health board has also been the beneficiary of a more sustainable workforce position, which has resulted from considerable investment in the health workforce under this Government. Indeed, 60 percent of costs in our district health boards arise from the payroll of doctors, nurses, orderlies, and those support staff who are in the back office, including those few in management positions. One wonders where this health system would be if it had not had the kind of investment that the Government has ploughed into it, and whether the occasional complaints that we hear, which by no means indicate any kind of system crisis, would have swollen to some kind of avalanche without the investment that has been made. I think the Opposition needs to be a little clearer about whether it is suggesting that the Government has been in some way profligate with this investment, or whether it is suggesting that it is not enough, because occasionally I hear both sides of that argument being raised by the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn any complex system there will always be areas for improvement. In any hospital system there is always a juggle between acute admissions and elective procedures, and the constant process of triage\u2014and I am pleased that the Canterbury District Health Board has had a 100 percent success rate in meeting its triage 1 targets. Like the member, I am not pleased that the board\u2019s percent success rate for triage 2 is only in the 40s; it is not at a level that the Government expects, and the ministry will be working with the district health board to get those numbers up. But, again, I think if we see this in perspective\u2014if we see it against the reputation that the Canterbury District Health Board has in many ways for being a centre of medical excellence\u2014then we will see a picture that overall is robust, healthy, and positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThere is a bit of a tendency for the Opposition members to perhaps run down a little the efforts of clinicians. I want to acknowledge that clinicians are the backbone of our system, and that they go to work every day to try to make the lives of their patients better. I remember the words of Heather Roy, who is not a member of the National Party\u2014and on this occasion they will be very thankful of that\u2014when she described a Capital and Coast District Health Board\u2019s Wellington hospital as a \u201Ckiller hospital\u201D. If I had a dollar for every email or letter I had from distraught clinicians and that community in response to that kind of cheap political name-calling, I would be a wealthy man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWe have to work together to search out the improvement opportunities and make the system better and stronger than it is. It is certainly a lot better than it was when this Government took office, when it was funded at about half of what it currently is. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002216928b3208c54caf86eccb8e0984abc6\u0022\u003EWaitemata District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1d153ca806a458d9627c7fcf23ac234\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1d153ca806a458d9627c7fcf23ac234\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It is very pleasing to be following on from that rather patronising lecture from the Minister of Health telling us all is actually well in health in New Zealand. It is rather apt that we are now going to be debating the Waitemata District Health Board, because, of course, the poor people of New Lynn whom the Minister represents actually have to go to that health board to get their care. Of course, the Minister himself does not go there, because he chooses to domicile himself in the rather more grandiose area of Herne Bay. So he really does not have to suffer the privations that his own constituents suffer when they have to go to Waitakere Hospital or North Shore Hospital for their own health care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI am really looking forward to another dose of condescension and maybe a little more patronising patter from the Minister as he gets up and tells us about the wonderful things he has done for the people of west Auckland, for the people north of the bridge, in terms of health care. Because when we are looking at what has gone wrong with this Government in terms of its performance in health we do not have to look any further than the Waitemata District Health Board. It is amazing; the Waitemata District Health Board has the worst patient satisfaction level of any district health board in New Zealand\u2014the worst\u2014yet that hospital should be performing as one of the best. In terms of triage times it is right down at the bottom. It is in the bottom quartile of district health boards on every single measure. There are problems right through that district health board, and I can tell members what the problems are. They come down to a failure of planning and a failure of management by this Government, and this Minister is responsible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EDo members know all that this Government has actually done at the Waitemata District Health Board? Do members know what the response to the problem has been? The response to the problem has been for Helen Clark to turn up on the lawn of North Shore Hospital and erect a great sculpture on the front lawn that is meant to represent the giving of light in places where despair reigns supreme\u2014rather like the Labour Party caucus room. That is the only contribution this Government has come up with constructively to try to solve the problems of the Waitemata District Health Board. I can tell members that I am being inundated in my electorate office in Northcote with complaint after complaint about what goes on at that hospital. If this Minister says that we get only an occasional complaint about the health service in New Zealand, I tell members that I think he is spending too long in restaurants in Herne Bay. He needs to get out to New Lynn and actually talk to some of those constituents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EIf the Minister goes out and talks to those blue collar, decent New Zealanders whom he is meant to represent, rather than hang around on Jervois Road, they will tell him what the reality is, and I will give him a taste of this. This is what I got just recently from one of my constituents. He tells me about Waitemata District Health Board: \u201CSome weeks ago I was admitted through the A \u0026amp; E department and I thought then that this was a shambles with all the corridors and aisles full of beds. I saw elderly men and women, middle-aged, and young children lying there without any dignity, respect, or privacy. I saw these patients having their observations taken and questions asked of them regarding their illnesses and injuries sometimes with absolutely no privacy. They were bodily examined, bloods taken, samples taken etc. The place was filthy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EFor this Minister to get up and give us a lecture about the state of health care in New Zealand is beyond a joke. I would invite him to come out to North Shore Hospital and see what it is really like. In fact, I walked into the accident and emergency department the other day with the Hon Tony Ryall. We went up to the reception desk, and do members know what was sitting there between ourselves and the receptionist at the counter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a807a4e577e04c2686ff8bcb182e29a1\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: A box of cigars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295675527b5b546da9eda5cd83450370b\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was a patient. That guy from Waimakariri wants to joke. I tell members that if that member were 6 inches taller, he would have a totally different personality and approach in Parliament. There is no question about it. He should be taking this a lot more seriously than he is, because this is a serious issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003ELabour has failed in health. Labour members have failed abjectly and it will cost them. They will get kicked at the polls on this. If they think they are performing, and if they think they have done a good job in health in New Zealand when elderly former Labour voters are lying on trolleys in the corridor at North Shore Hospital, well, they are in la-la land. This Minister gets up and talks about the investment in health, about the money that the Government has put into it. If members opposite come out of their ivory towers and ask any person in the street, they will find that people do not think this health system is any better than when Labour took over 9 years ago. The spending has gone from $6 billion to $12 billion and less elective surgery is actually being done. Is that not incredible? Less elective surgery is being done and there are fewer operations. There is no question that Labour has failed in health and it will pay the price at the ballot box.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002256d0537e25a04c928ad17b794331da1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256d0537e25a04c928ad17b794331da1e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E What a well-timed intervention from that new member! As it happens, only a week or so ago I did a full tour of the Waitemata District Health Board, not wearing my hat as a local MP, but wearing a ministerial hat. I can tell that member that I saw plenty of evidence of the investment that this Government has made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIf that member cared to get his hands dirty, to go back and see the Mason Clinic in its new form, to go and see the splendid new Waiatarau mental health care facility on the Lincoln Road campus, to spend some time in the new high-dependency unit at North Shore Hospital, and to look at the investment now going into the emergency centre at that hospital, where a new station is being built to take the overflow, and if he bothered to read the new data on vacancy rates that show that the district health board consistently managed down vacancies over the last 3 years, he would not be making the kind of prattle that is, frankly, indicting him as the same kind of lightweight MP as Ann Hartley was, about whom the people of Northcote are now asking: \u201CWhere the hell is Ann Hartley when you need a decent MP?\u201D. That is what they are saying. So that member is going to have a very interesting time in the polls, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe best he could do was to try to throw personal insults about where people live, as if he is not part of a party whose leader was registered to vote in Helensville but lived in St Stephens Avenue, Parnell. At least I am only 10 minutes from my electorate office; he has to virtually catch an international flight to get to his. He is all the way across the other side of the harbour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220680a68d44ba42a482da735bc2f18b09\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: He is not a Chardonnay socialist!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ea836c6891c40c99498f989ce99f539\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Would this by chance be the same John Key who, on his DVD\u2014which is not authorised, anyway\u2014over the sound of violin music playing, tells us about how he was a poor kid from nowhere who grew up in a State house, then devoted his professional life to making it harder for other poor kids to get a State house?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228346bbd27bf84347ae33e27f54ce6285\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I cannot see what this has to do with the financial review of the Waitemata District Health Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247a9aac8042547a19fb12cd845defee6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I think a rebuttal is fair when the member himself raised the issue of the Minister\u2019s domicile. The pot cannot be calling the kettle black.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298a47214fc194225a2bcc754fb7fd076\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs)\u003C/span\u003E: In actual fact a number of people on both sides have gone off the topic, in both the first speech and in reply. I would ask the Minister now to come back to the topic. This is about the Waitemata District Health Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f176361f31240d099fbfa7b46b27a85\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Fair enough. To take account of the pressure on the emergency centre at North Shore Hospital, some 70 additional beds are in the process of being put together through a combination of an expansion of a ward on the Waitakere campus and additional beds on the North Shore campus. I am confident that that is going to alleviate the kind of problem we had last winter with very high presentation rates. The new cardiac unit at North Shore Hospital and the new high-dependency unit will make a significant contribution to that. I think it is fair to say that the Ministry of Health has given the district health board a clear message that we expect the winter flow to be well managed, and that we look forward to seeing proposals from it as to what further measures it can take that will ensure it is well positioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EBut I would remind the member that I am advised by the member for New Lynn, formerly the member for Titirangi, that before 1999, which is when this Government came to office, all that existed on the Lincoln Road campus was the run-down building known as the Snelgar Building and a few prefabs. It was this Government that invested some $70 million in upgrading Waitakere\u2019s hospital facilities. There are new facilities there\u2014the new maternity unit, the new out-patients unit, the new general unit, and of course the new mental health units. So I think the member should visit the area and acquaint himself more thoroughly with the district health board before he makes speeches in the House that are without foundation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThis district health board\u2019s area has one of the fastest-growing populations in the country. It has a higher than average rate of high-needs individuals from both the Pasifika and the migrant communities, as well as an about average rate of M\u0101ori participants in its boundaries. It has a very high rate of primary health organisation enrolment, with some very competent primary health organisations. It is fortunate to draw upon a community that has extensive and well-integrated community networks, and therefore has a strong array of non-governmental organisations that provide community support. For that reason, it was the site of the Government\u2019s Wellbeing Summit conference, and has in many respects provided a leadership role in sharing best practice around the country in relation to primary health care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI should say that the Mason Clinic in west Auckland, which is administered by that district health board, is a world leader in forensic mental health care, and of its first 100 patients, I am told, there was no recidivism on discharge. That is a truly astounding\u2014astounding\u2014achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dba6038e43764084b9c6a382d287eb8a\u0022\u003ETranspower New Zealand Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u002285374f3842c442af9ad1d4b1b6ee140c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285374f3842c442af9ad1d4b1b6ee140c\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to congratulate you, Madam Chair, on your appointment as Assistant Speaker. I think it is the first opportunity I have had to speak during one of your sittings since your appointment. In company with my caucus colleagues, I am sure it will be a pleasure working with you, and I expect to enjoy your sense of correctness, fairness, good order, and sense of humour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ETranspower keeps New Zealand\u2019s energy flowing. It takes bulk electricity from where it is generated, by companies such as Meridian Energy and Mighty River Power, to 35 lines companies and directly to 10 big users. Electricity is delivered whenever and wherever it is needed, 24/7, through 11,806 kilometres of high voltage transmission lines, with 41,195 towers and poles, 173 substations, and 1,122 transformers. Transpower does not buy or sell electricity; it just ships it and owns the assets of the national grid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ESo what point in particular do we wish to raise on the performance and current operations for the Minister to respond to? There are a number. We could start with Pole 1. The Pole 1 high-voltage direct current electricity cable, which links the North and South Island, was shut down suddenly late last year after a report was commissioned by Transpower, the Marsh report. The report found that there was a serious risk of catastrophic failure in the pole, which would lead to mercury vapours and fires in the facility. The Government said it found out that Pole 1 was being shut down only the night before, when the Minister got a phone call from the then chief executive officer. The pole is an ageing, creaking piece of equipment that was built in the 1960s. It desperately needs replacing, but Transpower has only just lodged an application with the Electricity Commission to build a replacement. Assuming that that is approved, it is still likely to kick into service only, at the quickest, in 5 years\u2019 time; it should have been replaced years ago. Pole 1 is currently in partial service, running in one direction only, because without it we could not get enough power between the islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EIn relation to transmission generally, I say to members that as New Zealand moves towards renewable generation of electricity, the need for new and upgraded transmission will increase. New and renewable generation sites, such as wind farms, will increasingly be located in more remote places. With regard to negotiations with rural communities, I say that Transpower has not had a happy recent history in its dealing with landowners. One of the prices of upgraded transmission capacity is increased use of private land, which is frequently extremely valuable. Transpower has on some occasions not been willing to negotiate in good faith with local communities, and has managed to attract the ire of those communities. This is not good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3df85e33a7d4925be27fd83c8f17354\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: What about the public interest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a84433ec0bce41a981501cb413ffc3bf\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister really going to interject while I am speaking? That is unusual, but perhaps he does not know he is not supposed to do that. He will have his turn, and I hope he will have a lot to say about these points. But he should wait, because there is more. Good examples are the farmers in the Waikato, where Transpower wants to put in new pylons to boost transmission to Auckland, and the farmers who are on the new Roxburgh to Islington line in the South Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ede238929889455497e731162b70cba7\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Rigor mortis has set in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f5f08599bf849e2bbfcd05fd46e38b3\u0022\u003EBob Clarkson\u003C/span\u003E: Better than being a motormouth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8cc731f248046aa8496f3da24fc5cc7\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThen there was the land lease deal. In 2003 Transpower set up a complex tax deal where the Wachovia bank in the US transferred ownership of the South Island grid to a company registered in the Cayman Islands and leased it back. This is very, very serious, and it should occupy the mind of the Minister, because he is well exposed to, and well familiar with, financial transactions. Transpower says it retains the legal title to all transmission assets in the South Island. US newspapers reported in April that Wachovia had been hard hit by the financial crisis related to the mortgage market. It had to raise extra money, its share prices plummeted to less than half they were at this time last year, and it posted a first quarter loss of US$393 million. This raised fears in some quarters that the South Island grid was in danger. These are very serious issues, and the Minister should respond and address each one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ETranspower has a huge strategic responsibility and is regulated by the Commerce Commission and the Electricity Commission. The expectancy of the New Zealand public towards the results of Transpower is now tinged with considerable apprehension. Is it overly restricted? Is the Resource Management Act a problem? Is there a good fit between Transpower, the Electricity Commission, and the Commerce Commission? Standard and Poor\u2019s consider that on an international comparison we are negatively regulated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ba02b131efd54a719d57b184ade48e1f\u0022\u003ECharities Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000526\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f8a4d9105f2422a89c5196744136c86\u0022\u003EChildren\u2019s Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000528\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ffeec7020f6e4dd2873fdc9211f387b4\u0022\u003EFamilies Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022389220f7e9ec4639ab1d8adbef2a3822\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022389220f7e9ec4639ab1d8adbef2a3822\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the report of the Social Services Committee on the Families Commission. To many people, the Families Commission has been somewhat of a disappointment\u2014certainly, to many families in New Zealand who thought that it meant they would have advocates who would represent them, and, particularly, to parents. The Children\u2019s Commissioner says that she represents children, but many parents want a Families Commission that recognises the role of parents and actually values them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhat we have is a Families Commission that at the moment is spending an awful lot of money. It would be great if it were spending that money on parenting programmes such as the Home Interaction Programme for Parents and Youngsters, or Parents as First Teachers; if it were spending it on the sorts of things that parents want to know about, such as the best way to bring up their children. I do not know of any parents who do not want to be good parents. I certainly know of some parents who do not know how to be good parents, but I have never come across parents who, when their children are born, in their heart of hearts do not think they will do a better job than their own parents did. Often they do not, but certainly all parents try.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EYet we have a Families Commission that has, unfortunately, been spending an awful lot of taxpayer money on finding out how to spin its message about how valuable it is. It is spending $883,000, which is almost $1 million, on a programme called Valuing Parenting\u2014something that the commission itself has described as being pretty self-evident. The programme tells parents that we should be valuing them. Well, as a parent, let me tell the commission that it is not a mystery. We parents try to do the very best job that we can. I think that in many ways the Families Commission has been a huge disappointment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI remember that it went through all sorts of angst about what a family actually was. Well, anyone involved in a family knows exactly what a family is. It is whatever we think it is, frankly. If we have a family of mum, dad, and two kids, then that is a family. If we have a family of mum and two kids, then that is a family, too. A family is whatever we think it is. For kids, it does not really matter what we\u2014I, you, or somebody else\u2014think a family is; it is what that family thinks a family is that is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThat particular organisation has become obsessed with spin. The number of people employed in the communications department staggers belief. It is almost as bad as the situation in some of the big Government departments. For instance, why did it appoint a public relations company to \u201Creview the Families Commission\u2019s reputation and communications as part of its planning for a new approach to public relations for the Families Commission\u201D. Why did it do that? Why did it spend that sort of money? Why is it worried about that? Why is it not worried about parenting and children, and about helping parents to do the best job they can? Why has it spent tens of thousands of dollars on a website called The Couch in order to find out what families want? It got about 2,500 replies. Actually, my Celebrating Families website page has a database of about 3,000. I would have given it to the commission for nothing. But, unfortunately, the commission is spending taxpayers\u2019 money, and for many families whose taxes pay the bills of these communications experts, it is a waste of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think many people in this Chamber would think that the $9 million that the Families Commission gets each year could be better spent. By the way, it cannot spend it, because it does not have enough to spend it on; in fact, it gave some to the Children\u2019s Commissioner last year, because she has so much to do all around the world. People would like to see a lot better spend in relation to parents and to what works in helping parents to be good parents. It is not a mystery. All the commission has to do is to start to look at the really great research that is already being undertaken at Otago University and Canterbury University, and that is now being undertaken at Auckland University, as well. The longitudinal studies have shown what works for children and for families, and what they need. You know, it is not much more than good common sense. It is about parents putting their children first, about helping their children get a good education, about good health outcomes, about not being violent towards our children, and about putting them first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fefd0d48b78a439f981c64c62abba454\u0022\u003ESocial Workers Registration Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u00220c76f381fbbf4d41b15e21e8bf2aacf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c76f381fbbf4d41b15e21e8bf2aacf6\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I will comment briefly on some of the concerns that I think the Social Services Committee still has around this board. We certainly welcome the opportunity for social workers to become a registered profession, and I understand the need for the current provisions to provide for social workers to choose to register voluntarily. We are looking forward to the day when possibly that can become a mandatory requirement, because I think that we have a large number of people now who, technically, would call themselves social workers but who, I suspect, are not, and who would not meet the requirements to register with the registration board. The board does not currently require people to have a qualification in social work, but some provisions were put in that allowed people time to prove their competency. Those were people who had worked in the area of social work for years and years without qualifications but who did a very fine job, and who would have been lost to the profession if they had been required to get a qualification. Those people should be registered, so there is, I think, a 6-year period that we gave originally for the mop-up of that situation so that those people could become registered. But I think that we are fast approaching the day when we need to see that situation change, and when we need to step up with this profession and have it as a fully professional body with a real clarity around who can call themselves social workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe concern I have is that this profession, for me, can beggar belief a little bit. I will start off by saying that I am very supportive of the work social workers do, particularly those who have statutory powers and who work for Child, Youth and Family. They do an unenviable job, dealing with some extremely difficult cases, and most of us admire hugely the people who put their name forward to do that kind of work. So what I say now is not in any way denigrating that role and the need for it, but I have a real concern around the fact that the culture\u2014not just within Child, Youth and Family but also around social work\u2014seems to me at times to be characterised a lot by uncertainty and fear, where social workers are unsure of what risks there may be for them personally if they make a wrong decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EAlthough the Social Workers Registration Board also has a disciplinary function, currently very little of the money that is put aside for disciplinary purposes is used. The hope is that in future there will be a greater uptake of that as some of the complaints we hear about as MPs filter through and the board is able to deal with them. But one of the problems\u2014and I know that it is a problem that the Minister is setting about fixing\u2014is that there have not been clear processes, particularly for Government-employed social workers and social work to complain through some sort of official process. Therefore, there is not a clear path currently in place to have complaints directed through, where necessary, to the Social Workers Registration Board. That needs to be fixed. I know that the Government has contracts only with providers that can demonstrate they have a complaints process in place, but even then it seems unclear to those who work with the board that there is any flow-through of those complaints to them for professional assessment. I think that that is something that needs to be strengthened over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe talk all the time about the fact that the general public who have dealings with Child, Youth and Family particularly are currently a little hamstrung if they want to lay a complaint, but I also suspect that if social workers felt a lot safer in their job, then they would have less to fear. I think that some of the relationship falls down between the Government department and a particular client often because there is no clear process and advocacy for people who want to lay a complaint. Often those people have an ongoing relationship with Child, Youth and Family; the service has their children in care and it determines how often they get to visit their children and under what circumstances. Therefore, for people in those circumstances to go and lay a complaint is a very scary thing because of the power that social workers have over them. But, on the other side of the coin, I think that we have a profession that does not always feel clear that it is protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002218962f1873924f8991864e4fa1f92360\u0022\u003EElectricity Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u00223f6c8fe5d02f4383874902864b7a9519\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f6c8fe5d02f4383874902864b7a9519\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to see that the Minister David Parker is here for this debate. It would have been really good if he had been here for the debate on Transpower, but he may wish to field some of the questions that were asked then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe current power crisis facing us this winter brings into stark relief the failure of the Electricity Commission\u2014the grand-sounding body that was set up in 2003 by the then Minister of Energy, Pete Hodgson. He said then, as did the Prime Minister, that the commission would guarantee New Zealand\u2019s security of electricity supply into the future. Much rhetoric was engaged in by Government Ministers as to their wonderful new creation, and this is something we are getting used to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWhat a failure the commission has turned out to be. It seems that every year is now a dry year, a famous one-in-60-year event, where New Zealanders face the prospect of cold showers, brownouts, and industrial shut-downs. Already the commission is asking industrial users to use a little less electricity. Is this First World country stuff? We had an electricity crisis in 2004 and in 2006, and now we have another one in 2008. The commission was set up by this Government to try to avoid situations like this, and it has singularly failed in its goal. It has failed to meet its mandate, and the result is spiralling prices and industry cutting production. Goodness knows what it is doing in turning people off from ever coming to New Zealand to invest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ELet us not be in any doubt that the commission is very much a creation of the Labour Government. It dreamt it up. It is, and has been, filled with Labour lackeys, such as David Caygill, a former Deputy Prime Minister and a deputy leader of the party; Stan Rodger, a former Labour Cabinet Minister; and Peter Harris, a former adviser to Michael Cullen. It has been stacked. Minister Rick Barker might be hoping for a future there himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWhile the commission has failed to future-proof New Zealand\u2019s electricity infrastructure, it has also overseen massive residential price increases for consumers. It costs 48 percent more than it did 5 years ago to power the average residential home. Prices are heading upwards at the moment because of the lack of generation capacity. I do hope that the Minister, if he takes a call, will not say that they have kept the prices down. Goodness me! Prices are heading upwards at the moment because of the lack of generation capacity. Spot prices have trebled on occasions in the last few months. The ultimate insult is that the Electricity Commission, while it has watched that happening to consumers, has cost taxpayers $230 million since it came into existence\u2014$230 million. There is very little to show for this massive transfer from taxpayers\u2019 back pockets to yet another Government entity, and a stacked one at that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe commission has also been woefully slow at confirming new transmission projects. Members will know that New Zealand desperately needs more transmission capacity and investment, both because of a lack of investment in the past and because of new renewable projects coming online. However, the Government has managed to create an incredibly confusing regulatory mess around transmission upgrades, with the Electricity Commission, Transpower, and the Government all having a role to play. This is very important for the Minister. There are numerous examples of delays in necessary transmission upgrades because of this situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister why it is that Standard and Poor\u2019s says our electricity infrastructure lacks certainty of regulation. Why does it say that? These are real issues regarding the relationship between the Commerce Commission, the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority, and the Electricity Commission. This Government has been very keen on creating new statutory bodies, but it is very much less keen on making sure that their jobs are properly defined and that they carry out their duties effectively. The Electricity Commission is a perfect example of this malfunction. We ask the Minister to lift the veil, to see the reality, and to be prepared to tell us about that reality. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002296ce9059e8dd40588014ec150ee33ff0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296ce9059e8dd40588014ec150ee33ff0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E I am used to some level of ignorance on the part of the National Party spokesperson on energy, Gerry Brownlee, when it comes to the Electricity Commission and other matters of detail. But having pointed out those mistakes in a radio interview with Sean Plunket on Radio New Zealand National about a week ago, I thought that by now the speech notes that Mr Auchinvole read from would have been corrected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBefore I return to some of the misunderstandings that the National Party has in respect of the Electricity Commission, I would like to correct the power crisis myth. One would think that the lights had gone out in New Zealand under the Labour Government. When was the last time New Zealand had lights going out because of a shortage of power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce6decd3bf23426e9dabb938f69e9332\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a68311bd3f4748ba1707c888756118\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was actually way before then. It was in 1974. New Zealand has not suffered blackouts since 1974. When was the last time street lights were dimmed\u2014not residential lights, but street lights? Street lights were last dimmed because of a shortage of electricity in 1992, under a National Government. I am not blaming that Government, because in 1992 we had very, very low inflows into the hydro system. It was not the National Party\u2019s fault that the rain did not fall in 1992, but even in 1992, when we had the lowest rainfall pattern for about 60 years, the lights did not go out but we did have to dim the street lights. That is the worst it has been since that time. We have not had a repeat of that since 1992.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224574181b5c8b4cd28e63cb04940ab3a7\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What about the CBD in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e87218bd0cd44f8e90d2fdc8127ceb30\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Under a National Government the lights went out in the CBD in Auckland. It was not because there was a shortage of generation but because the transmission assets failed, under a National Government. I thank Mr Auchinvole. I understand that he is the deputy spokesperson on energy for the National Party, and he does not know that basic fact. That is so typical of the member\u2019s ignorance of these energy areas; it is second only to Mr Brownlee\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe have heard this claim that the Electricity Commission does not do anything. Well, of course, the Electricity Commission was established in 2003 because the industry could not agree on what it needed to do to regulate itself. It was the failure of the self-regulatory model that led to the commission being set up. No progress had been made on transmission investment, very limited evolution of the market arrangements had occurred, anti-competitive practices were getting worse, and there had been little development of the grid. There were stalemates on a number of issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f2903f7e73145c393c8e188f11c63a3\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s changed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022162d89f49baf47f7a66875b39eb5ac84\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will tell the member what has changed. Please listen, because a lot has changed. The commission has focused on three areas. Firstly, it is enabling transmission investments. The member says that nothing has happened. A total of $1.25 billion of grid investments was approved to March 2008\u2014$1.25 billion. The rate of expenditure on the grid has gone up, from $60 million per annum on average when that member\u2019s party was last in power, to over $300 million this year, and it will rise to about $500 million next year. Grid investment has gone up hugely, and the security of the New Zealand transmission grid is improving year by year as a consequence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESome of these reviews have saved New Zealanders hundreds of millions of dollars. The Electricity Commission has oversight of Transpower\u2019s grid investments. It did that in respect of the Waikato upgrade, and it actually knocked $150 million off the net present value\u2014a cost that would otherwise have been paid by New Zealand consumers. There was a $150 million cost saving in respect of that one proposal alone, yet Mr Auchinvole would demolish the commission; he would actually take us back to that failed system of the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe commission has also completed grid reliability standards, which New Zealand has never had before. We have transmission pricing methodology, which is absolutely fundamental to determining who pays for what\u2014[Interruption] Sandra Goudie rolls her eyes, makes a smart comment, and says that it is unimportant. Well, these are multibillion-dollar assets, and who pays for them is important\u2014critically important. This had been an unresolved issue for more than a decade under the prior, unregulated mess left by the National Government and Max Bradford. The Electricity Commission has fixed it. It was a tortuously complex issue and it has fixed it. In addition to that, it is investing in electricity efficiency and it is also overseeing different aspects of the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe total amount that the Electricity Commission costs consumers is 1 percent of their bill, not 10 percent of their bill. If we look at the bill that people pay every month, we will see that it is less than 1 percent of the bill. No one would say we have hugely vigorous competition in the electricity sector, as we have only five main players. In fact, we really have only four big players and TrustPower, which is much smaller. So we have limited competition at best. Removing the Electricity Commission would take out one of the oversights and, of course, that would have the effect of putting people\u2019s prices up by more than the 1 percent that the Electricity Commission costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9d5fb5e0c224631943ff1d865a31ba0\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: So what do they do with it? What do they use the $230 million for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244bb176aebf0421cbcde8a2988455249\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I answered that question on Radio New Zealand National the other day, and I wish that National\u2019s leading spokesperson on energy had pointed out what I had said, because I pointed out the fundamental mistake in National\u2019s logic. Most of the things that the Electricity Commission pays for have always happened, will always be necessary, and will always need to be paid for. Consumers pay for those things through the Electricity Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ee739ae5b5d4a669fb9e4e8227d2e10\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: What are they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226501934122fb41ac87701081d8846b78\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Power is dispatched. Someone has to control which hydro station or other generator is turned on and off, and which lines the power runs over. That is the system operator contract. That is how the whole system works. I am surprised Sandra Goudie and Chris Auchinvole do not know that. They asked me the question because they do not know the most basic things in respect of the electricity system. This is done through the Electricity Commission paying for these services, which it contracts to the system operator. If we were to dump the Electricity Commission tomorrow, those things would still need to be done, otherwise our lights would go out. There would be no saving of costs. That costs $28 million per annum, and it is 32 percent of the Electricity Commission\u2019s reserve. It funds reserve energy\u2014Whirinaki power station is funded by the commission. It costs $27 million per annum and is 28 percent of its cost. Again, if we did not have the Electricity Commission, we would still need that and it would still exist. If that were abolished as well, then maybe the lights would go out under a National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe commission also funds electricity efficiency programmes. We all know that we need to spend more on efficiency in New Zealand. It actually saves us all money\u2014it is cheaper to spend money on efficiency than it is to build more generating capacity. That costs the commission $18 million, which is another 19 percent of its budget. That cost would not go away unless we stopped spending money on electricity efficiency, in which case everyone\u2019s bills would go up. The commission\u2019s own operations cost $20 million, which is one-fifth of its total budget. That one-fifth of its cost is less than 0.2 percent of our power bill. That is the cost of running the Electricity Commission. Other things are paid through them. The bill for consumers would go up by far more than that. I am afraid that this sounds like the National Party\u2019s electricity policy for the next election. It will obviously come along and say it will dump the Electricity Commission. The last time National was in power Max Bradford and the National Government ruined the electricity system. National really is a risk, as shown by its members\u2019 ignorance on what is an absolutely fundamental part of the electricity system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022f01b99fcaf8243508aae9f1984e4f3af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f01b99fcaf8243508aae9f1984e4f3af\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I was not going to take a call, but I will take just a short call. Tonight we have made history in this Parliament. Tonight, as the Minister has pointed out, the level of\u2014I do not think it is ignorance, or to be charitable maybe it is\u2014commitment, research, and intelligence from the National Party about things to do with energy, especially in respect of the review of the Electricity Commission, has been exposed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr Auchinvole\u2014I think I pronounced his name right; he is rather sensitive about it\u2014who I am told is National\u2019s deputy spokesperson on energy, got up and lambasted the Minister, the Government, and the Electricity Commission. In the course of doing that\u2014and I give him credit for this, as it is a serious issue\u2014he expressed a fear about, as he would put it, the lights going out. For the benefit of those at home listening to this debate, Mr Auchinvole tried to feign concern about what would happen in the energy industry, and he then demonstrated the absolute precision of his knowledge on the issue. He decided to lambaste this Minister and this Government for a power crisis when the lights almost went out and there was almost a blackout. I can remember, and members will remember, the mobile generators down the road in Queen Street and all over the country. He decided to lambaste this Government for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I do not think there was a DNA match in the brain of that member, or perhaps his lights had gone out or somebody had pulled the wires out from somewhere. Perhaps the pacemaker had not gone off\u2014I do not know. He forgot that that event occurred under a National Government. That is the exact precision, intelligence, and grasp of the energy portfolio that the New Zealand public would be presented with if ever, God help us, that member made it to the Treasury benches as an Associate Minister, as a deputy Minister, or possibly even\u2014given Gerry Brownlee\u2019s lack of performance\u2014as an energy Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ETonight the New Zealand people have actually seen the depth of knowledge that that member and his ilk have when it comes to energy. In respect of the Electricity Commission, we would have to say that we know what that member would do if he took the Treasury benches: he would get rid of it. But he will not tell us what he would replace it with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOf course, that member, in his dissertation about what the previous National Government did\u2014he thought it was a Labour Government that blacked out New Zealand, but it was a National Government that did so\u2014forgot to remind the New Zealand people about the devastating effect that Mr Max Bradford, his former colleague and energy Minister, had on this country. We all recall the great claim that electricity costs would go down, that people would be better off, and that it would be cheaper under a Bradford regime. But he tore apart an electricity regime that I think worked pretty well. Most pensioners who remember it would agree with that, and most New Zealanders who remember it would agree with that. But, of course, when Mr Auchinvole got the time frame and the Government wrong in his dissertation, he did not have the ability or the intestinal fortitude to lay claim to that policy that was his, and that has his fingerprints all over it. He was part of it; he may not have been in Parliament then, but he was part of it and he takes the credit for us now. But I tell members that every Kiwi remembers what it used to be like, and every pensioner remembers what it used to be like before his ilk got hold of it and effectively gutted and destroyed an effective Electricity Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhat this Minister has done, and what the electricity commissioner has done, is put in some frameworks to encourage competition and to get a real market situation working. What he failed to do was to tell us anything tonight about what he would do if he were in Government\u2014not one thing. He even got critical dates and times in history wrong. I invite the New Zealand people to get on the parliamentary website, get that member\u2019s Hansard\u2014which was from about 20 minutes ago, at about half past nine\u2014and read, word for word, a silly speech from a silly member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022881981924c6045d19a933ec0a102414b\u0022\u003EHousing New Zealand Corporation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf8ca0b812324f4ba060211e145384e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf8ca0b812324f4ba060211e145384e4\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E I sat on the Social Services Committee that considered the annual review of the Housing New Zealand Corporation. By way of a backdrop, I point out that about eight or nine members of Parliament sat on that committee, and it would be fair to say that their ears were ringing after 12 months of stories about million-dollar State homes worth about the same as two or three average State homes in average streets\u2014homes that tenants would be more than happy with. Members\u2019 ears were ringing with stories of State house tenants earning $80,000, $90,000, or $100,000 after tax, and their ears were ringing with evidence of blatant vandalism in State houses by a very few State house tenants, which Housing New Zealand and the Minister have turned a blind eye to time after time. It was quite difficult in that select committee to know that one had several colleagues from across Parliament who were aware of these stories of million-dollar State houses, very high income State house tenants, vandals in State houses, and also cases of a few State house tenants\u2014nowhere near the majority; in fact a small minority\u2014who actually sublet their State homes while owning baches in Russell in the Bay of Islands and living somewhere else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EI said to colleagues on the select committee, and I said to Labour colleagues who were also concerned about this\u2014and concerned about the hush job done on this issue\u2014\u201DLet\u2019s treat Housing New Zealand objectively in front of the select committee, even though we all have this baggage of knowing of houses in lower socio-economic areas of Wellington where the carpet is mouldy, where there is plastic over the windows, and where curtains are drawn and no sunlight can come in because families are suffering in the cold. I essentially said to colleagues across the select committee that we should try to be objective, try to park that information, and have a fairly robust investigation of the Housing New Zealand Corporation and its practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EI would have to say that colleagues generally felt that Housing New Zealand provides an essential function in this country, which is to provide housing for those who are in need of housing\u2014sadly, quite often in desperate need of housing\u2014who cannot afford market rental housing, and who certainly cannot afford to buy their own homes. But it would also be fair to say that National members on that committee, and also members from other parties, said that that is not actually where our aspirations are for State house tenants. Our aspirations are not that they will remain in State houses for the rest of their lives, and that we will somehow wipe them out and tell them: \u201CWell, you know, you\u2019re stuck on an income-related rent, you can stay there for your lifetime, and your kids can inherit the house, and maybe your grandkids, as well.\u201D Our aspirations for State house tenants are that maybe one day they will have a choice about where they rent, and even, perhaps, the opportunity to buy their own homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EHousing New Zealand carries out a very important function in this country. It manages about 67,000 State houses. That stock has been building in recent years, and that is a good thing. Probably about 1,000 State houses have come online each year. About 60 percent of those have been bought or built and about 40 percent have been leased off the private sector, and that is a pretty good formula. We had the corporation before the committee, and we were concerned about a number of things when we interviewed it. That was partly to do with the whole issue of who the target people were that the commission was trying to house. Clearly, from the committee\u2019s perspective, it was generally thought that the corporation worked first with the most needy families on the waiting list, and then moved on through those to a point where it could house as many as possible with the resources it had. But, even so, we discovered that Housing New Zealand said, in respect of the Weymouth development, that it was \u201Censuring that opposing gangs\u201D\u2014patched gangs\u2014\u201Dare housed sensitively.\u201D And we must remember that this quote is from a select committee report written by and agreed on by National and Labour members, and members of other parties; it is not a statement just from the National members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5a5907ec0504a908b0cddcaddbe1f61\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s nice!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022236d5e86545048b684df3dabcf04cb5e\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is nice that Housing New Zealand is housing opposing patched gangs sensitively, but the select committee, and certainly the National Party, would like to think that the corporation is housing desperately needy families sensibly in houses that do not have ventilation or heating problems. We would like to think it is caring for those people, rather than worrying about the fighting of opposing gangs in Weymouth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EWe also talked about the housing affordability issue. It was quite amazing, really, to get the admission about the Housing New Zealand project in Hobsonville, which will build 3,000 homes. There is an economy of scale of 3,000 homes at Hobsonville, and 500 of them will be affordable for first-home buyers. When we asked how much those 500 affordable homes would cost, we were told not to worry because first-home buyers would be able to buy them for $350,000 each. A very keen, sharp-minded member of the select committee\u2014I recall this; his question is echoing even now through my mind\u2014asked how it was that Housing New Zealand and the Government expect builders to be able to build affordable homes at a cheap price when even the Government cannot do it for less than $350,000 with the economy of scale of a development of 3,000 houses. So Housing New Zealand has an economy of scale of 3,000 houses, and the cheapest home is $350,000, yet the corporation asks builders and developers to build cheap homes when even it cannot do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThat point is what I would like to rest on. Essentially, this Government has lost touch with New Zealanders if it thinks that affordable housing is cheap at $350,000, particularly when people are trying to service a mortgage at 9 or 10 percent over that value, fill up the petrol tank, buy a block of cheese, pay the electricity bill\u2014which has gone up year after year for the last 6 years\u2014and do everything else for their young families, or for themselves as individuals, all at the same time. Government members have completely lost touch with New Zealanders if they think that a $350,000 house is affordable. I tell this Government that the cost of houses might worry them but there is a bigger Indian coming over the hill, and that is that rents are going through the roof. They have been doing so for the last 12 months and they will do so for the next 12 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d507fc20b4fe48e588600c8c2aec3461\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: Are they affordable rents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d009962d1ff4d9486dcb1e662edd3dc\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: They are rents that are not affordable, and a lot of families will be under serious pressure. So the Minister should solve that one with her Hobsonville development. I remind her that about 3.5 million people do not live in Hobsonville and do not want to live in Hobsonville. Her 500 houses in Hobsonville will not help those 3.5 million people. She should keep in mind that there is a bigger issue here in housing, and that little schemes in Hobsonville and a targeted shared equity scheme to help another 1,000 lucky people are not going to solve the problem for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EIt is time that this Government took much more of a holistic approach and looked at the problems for everyone, which are essentially take-home pay, interest rates, the cost of building, the cost of subdivision, and the cost of land. The Minister should be looking at the Resource Management Act, the Building Act, and the Local Government Act. If the Minister did that, she would start solving the problem for everyone, not just those people who live in Hobsonville.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00221fb69d4bac994950aa9ce3767aeb4796\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fb69d4bac994950aa9ce3767aeb4796\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to rise to speak to the housing section of this debate. I would like to traverse a couple of points. The previous speaker touched on his usual favourites. He likes to do what Tony Ryall does in the area of health, which is to wave as many shrouds as possible without ever on any occasion providing either vision or a future-oriented policy that could address the housing needs of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI am proud of the work that Housing New Zealand Corporation has done in the last year. I am proud also of the work it is currently engaged in and will be delivering on into the future. There is no doubt that housing need strikes at the very heart of our society. I am very privileged to be the Minister of Housing. Housing is a portfolio that the Labour Party has always held very dear, and it is a privilege to have it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EState housing is an essential feature of our social make-up, and the previous speaker acknowledged that. For the first time in my hearing\u2014and perhaps for the first time ever\u2014he actually said he was pleased we were building and acquiring more State houses. That has to stand in stark contrast to the practice of the National Party when it was last in Government. National\u2019s practice when it was last in Government, however much those members hate us repeating it, was to do away with 13,500 State houses. It sold them to its developer friends, and now the spokesperson on housing for the National Party feigns compassion. He feigns concern for the people at the bottom of the socio-economic scale in New Zealand. That kind of\u2014there is a word here that I am not allowed to use\u2014approach is not enough, and it is not credible for that member to take that kind of approach now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI would like to traverse some of the things that this Government is doing and that Housing New Zealand Corporation has done in the last year in order to address the issue of housing affordability, which, of course, has become a hot issue. It has become a hot issue because in the last 5 years, between 2002 and 2007, house prices have increased by about 80 percent right across the country. That is extremely difficult even for a very progressive Labour-led Government to keep up with. It is extremely difficult for anybody to keep up with. So we have been seeing, for the first time, people who at this stage of their lives, and with their earning potential, ought to be able to buy their own houses being locked out of that over the last 5 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAt every turn, with every piece of policy and every intervention, this Government is trying to address that issue. No one item will ever solve that problem; no one policy or initiative on its own will ever do that. The lack\u2014the paucity\u2014of ideas from the Opposition just makes me shake my head. I cannot believe that those members opposite think that all the solutions are to be found in the Resource Management Act. I cannot believe the stupidity of the impoverished idea that says solutions of that kind are to be found in the Resource Management Act. [Interruption] If that member could bring some vision, some contribution, and some possibility to the debate, then everybody might be better off. However, we will box on without him, because he is clearly unable to do that\u2014as is his party\u2014apart from approving of the fact that we are adding to the State housing stock, and I welcome that contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI wish that members opposite had come to that realisation in the 1990s instead of introducing market rents. Where would we be now if the market rents policy was continuing today? Yes, rents are increasing, and how would we be dealing with our most impoverished in this country if we had the National Party policy of market rents? It does not matter how much members bleat from the other side. They absolutely know that they have never had a policy position that addresses housing need in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe Government is looking to address the issue of housing affordability across a range of fronts. [Interruption] I am sorry if that is too complex for the member who is interjecting. She will get it eventually if we say it often enough, so I will continue to say it. Housing New Zealand Corporation is engaged not only in providing social housing but in promoting some of the most expansive programmes for addressing affordable housing that this country has ever seen, and I look forward to the implementation of those policies and to opening some of those houses in the near future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002258b97714048343e8b689d2b11fd65cf0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258b97714048343e8b689d2b11fd65cf0\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We just may have overlooked Internal Affairs. The National Party would like to make a contribution on the New Zealand Fire Service Commission, and I seek the leave of the Committee to go back to that please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab7824230eee4aec970cf5d01f1c32ca\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for raising that. We have not overlooked it; we are some way off it. Would you like to do it now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bdbd0ca4ca8419a92141913d7057778\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd82bb8f5c79468cbafbd67c7427ba1c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Fire Service Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u00224e7af91249c04916b0c8c489dc12d0d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e7af91249c04916b0c8c489dc12d0d6\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the financial review of the New Zealand Fire Service Commission. A number of very serious matters were raised during the review, not the least of which was the concern around the fire appliance fleet replacement. When this concern was raised in questions to the Fire Service Commission, it responded that the responsibility for the detailed programme resided with the Chief Executive of the Fire Service but that the commission approved the capital budget annually, at the high level. The commission was cognisant of the problems associated with the capital budget, and had confidence in the chief executive that he had sound replacement programmes in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EEssentially, the Fire Service Commission was saying that it had absolute confidence in the Chief Executive of the Fire Service, and that it was passing the responsibility on to him. One could be forgiven for thinking that in actual fact the commission was abdicating that responsibility. That is a concern for a number of reasons, the first being the operational risks identified in one of the Fire Service Commission\u2019s quarterly reports. One operational risk is that the fire appliance fleet replacement programme does not meet Fire Service needs. The impact of that is seen in the increased operating costs as older vehicles are maintained for a longer period than planned, and in the increased risk of accidents through the use of appliances in excess of 25 years old. The Fire Service is also unable to take advantage of improvements to vehicle technology and safety. Those are some of the operational risks that were identified in a quarterly report of the New Zealand Fire Service Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EOther matters were raised in another audit report. One concern was that the reporting that took place to the audit committee in respect of financial and operational audits was confusing, in that it was difficult to ascertain the following: whether the issues identified were significant; the implications to the New Zealand Fire Service of the issues being raised; management\u2019s response to the issues that had been raised; and whether the issues that had been raised previously had been followed up, actioned, or cleared. When one reads that, one has to ask whether the New Zealand Fire Service Commission actually knows what is going on. Real concerns have been raised about how it is following up on some of the concerns and risks that have been brought to its attention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe concerns around the aged fire appliance fleet have consistently been brought to the attention of the New Zealand Fire Service Commission. It was noted with some concern that there were no new fire appliances in 2002, 2003, and 2004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246d77876af184413b0f5bf7c9eee932f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: What about Roger Estall? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227483e3a436864ceb8336dcd4efa97206\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is actually concerned about the New Zealand Fire Service fire appliance fleet replacement, then he should listen up. The Minister might like to answer the questions asked of the New Zealand Fire Service by the United Fire Brigades Association. They go back to 2005. The association\u2019s newsletter stated that there was growing concern over the ageing of the New Zealand Fire Service fleet. One fire service representative asked how the 20 fire appliances delivered so far could meet fleet replacement requirements when there were 148 appliances over 25 years of age, out of a fleet of 800 vehicles, and when at least 40 new appliances per year were needed to meet the 20-year age limit requirement. How is that happening? In short, it is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EIn July 2006 Paul McGill, obviously responding a year later to the United Fire Brigades Association, was quoted on the front page of one of the association\u2019s newsletters\u2014it took up most of the newsletter. He was required to respond to the growing number of questions asked and concerns expressed by the association. One of the questions he was asked was how many new appliances would be delivered to brigades over the next 12 months\u2014this was in 2006. The answer was 32. The next question was whether this number was sufficient. The answer was that the New Zealand Fire Service had around 800 appliances, and they were expected to remain in service for 25 years on average. To sustain that number, about 32 new appliances were needed per year, but for a number of years no new appliances were put into service. Paul McGill, who is a director of operations and training and responsible for new appliances, agreed that the Fire Service needed more than 32 new appliances per year. But is that happening? No, it is not happening. According to Fire Service reports, since 2004 there have been 16 type 4s, three type 5s, 13 type 3s, and 31 type 2s, plus three imports and one light response vehicle delivered. They have been delivered over 4\u00BD years, which equates to about 14 new appliances per year\u2014half of what is needed to replace the ageing Fire Service fleet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThat is a huge concern to United Fire Brigades Association personnel and has been raised time and time again. But the firefighters are not talking about it too loudly, for very good reason. So what is being done? The Fire Service Commission is saying that fleet replacement is the responsibility of the Chief Executive of the Fire Service and that it is comfortable with his plans, yet his plans are not meeting the necessary replacement quota to ensure that the service catches up with an ageing fleet. We have to wonder what the commission is doing\u2014is it doing anything much? I am sure the Minister will take a call, but when we think about it, we realise he has not been doing anything either. After a Fire Service review, two discussion documents, and years of angst, what has he done? He has done nothing. That is pretty obvious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EIn actual fact, when I asked, under the Official Information Act, what fiscal analysis had been undertaken of the proposed funding for the New Zealand Fire Service, he could not give me any information\u2014because there was none. In my view, that is a huge oversight on the part of the Minister. When I put questions to him about the concerns over the current fire appliance fleet, his replies always started with \u201CI am informed by the New Zealand Fire Service Commission\u201D. I wonder just how deeply he has looked into the concerns expressed by many, many New Zealand fire volunteers and personnel, and whether he is comfortable with the fact that the Fire Service is in no way able to meet the ageing fleet replacement requirements. In 2006 there were only 10 new appliances. Perhaps the Minister might like to take a call about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWhat has been happening to some of these new fire appliances? I will tell members what has happened to some of these new fire appliances. The Sockburn series 5 is yet to see a flame, and the Christchurch 211 was broken yet again. The Bronto HEM was broken as well. The Timaru Bronto was broken for 3 months, and the Invercargill Bronto had a cracked chassis. This is not to mention the demonstration in Blenheim using a new fire appliance whose tank had not been sealed so that the water leaked and left no water with which to do the demonstration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022562865bf8d9543dda8a78e80ef8dc127\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re kidding!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fff0624a9be746bab66b05c859737b2a\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not, that is true. The commission was asked whether it was satisfied that the fire appliance purchases were reversing an ageing trend. The commission did not actually say no, but it admitted that there would be a catch-up phase. Well, one wonders just how long that catch-up phase will take when there were no new appliances bought in 2002, 2003, and 2004. The commission is woefully behind in making the vehicle fleet replacements necessary to keep up with the required level of aged fleet replacement and to keep the age of the fleet much lower. My understanding is that the oldest vehicle was bought in 1973 and is in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI am sure the Fire Service Commission will be looking a little more closely at the issue, although it has been under quite a lot of pressure in terms of Official Information Act requests and members\u2019 questions to the Minister. Perhaps now the Minister in the chair, the Hon Rick Barker, will start to take a bit of an interest in his portfolio and what is happening about fire appliance fleet replacement. Maybe he will do something in terms of his responsibility as a Minister, because to date we have seen nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u00226e5095360144478abff040288e0fe909\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e5095360144478abff040288e0fe909\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E It is with great irony that National Party members stand in the Chamber and complain about the state of the Fire Service Commission. Let us remember it was the previous National Government that set fire to the Fire Service Commission, through the actions of Roger Estall. National set volunteer against professional; professional against volunteer. Let us remember it was the National Government that slashed and burned the budget for the Fire Service Commission. Let us remember it was the National Government that stopped the replacement programme for new fire machines in the 1990s. Let us remember that National never built or replaced another fire station in all the time it was in office, and that it had that live wire Minister responsible\u2014Jack Elder! That was the leadership National showed for the Fire Service Commission. It is absolutely galling for National members to come into the Chamber and complain about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EBut not only are National members silly about it; they are plain wrong\u2014plain wrong. We have just had it put on the Hansard record that Sandra Goudie said that no fire engines were replaced in 2002, yet in question for written answer No. 2275, I told Sandra Goudie that in 2001-02, 15 new appliances were put into the fleet. That is not none; that is 15. Sandra Goudie went on to say that in 2003 there were no fire engine replacements, yet in the same written answer I said that there were 16. She also said that in 2004 there were none, but in answer to the same written question I told her that there were 36. That is part of the written record. Sandra Goudie cannot even read the answers to her own written questions, let alone get things right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI will now make another point that has escaped Sandra Goudie, as it has escaped the National Party. The point is there is a global boom on. People are mining, digging up parts of Australia and mining all over the world, so trucks are in incredibly short supply. It is hard to buy a new truck. The Fire Service has a stack of orders out, and in question for written answer No. 3084, I told Sandra Goudie that the Fire Service Commission had advised me it has 79 appliances on order. The people cannot deliver them on time. The Fire Service Commission has put into place 22 new appliances so far this financial year. It accepts there is a lag, but if people cannot supply us with the new engines, then we cannot commission them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EWhat is driving this talk, of course, is that some people want the Fire Service to go and buy second-hand trucks out of Britain or Japan. It is really interesting; they have a deal for the Fire Service Commission! Oh, boy, they have! The service is told that it needs trucks out of Britain and that those people can supply them. The problem with that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b44dab16de347a1a46fb73dbb1d3831\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: We did that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022015d2c1989234976b4d1470ddbf7665c\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; Shane Ardern is saying they did that. It was not a good idea, because it means there is a huge variation in the fleet, maintenance costs go up, and there are all sorts of other problems. It is much better to have a standard fleet. So we have a very good model of truck and we are buying them in large numbers, and we will go ahead and do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EBut, of course, there is no point in supplying an answer to Sandra Goudie\u2019s written questions, because she does not read them. She simply does not read them. That is another very good example of why the National Party should never ever be considered for the Treasury benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI say to Sandra Goudie that I am happy to argue our record of what we have done for the Fire Service Commission and what National did. We have built numerous new fire stations all over the country. Dame Margaret Bazley has attended over 80 new openings. We have put new fire engines all over the place. I went to hand over the keys to a new fire engine in Waipukurau. It was the first time they have had a new fire engine since the 1930s\u2014the first time they have ever had a brand new machine. The volunteers turned up and they were admiring this nice, new, glossy, bright red machine with all the whizzes and stuff on it. It is a little beauty. We will go through and replace all the old buildings. We are commissioning fire trucks, building new fire stations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe National Party also failed to note that we are recruiting new people as professional firefighters. The number of professional firefighters has gone up under this Government. Under the previous National Government the number went down. We have replaced all the firefighters to make New Zealanders safer. We have done the right thing: more firefighters, more volunteers, more professionals, newer trucks, and more fire stations. The National Government slashed and burned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EMembers should remember just one name above all else\u2014Roger Estall. He was the high point of the National Government\u2019s policy on the Fire Service Commission, ably led by that intellectual genius Jack Elder! He was the best person National could get, and he demonstrated all the fine skills of a Tory Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ee97e31776c4368aa5f4de03d866688\u0022\u003EArts Council of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022 data-id=\u002239db4c2d978c4fabb6a9f94e5172967d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239db4c2d978c4fabb6a9f94e5172967d\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to be speaking to the report on the Arts Council, on behalf of New Zealand First. As we know, the council is required to comply with the collective duties and individual duties as members, and any directions made by the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage as determined by the Crown Entities Act. The Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage will be informed and engaged in discussions, as appropriate, on any proposals for significant changes in the way Creative New Zealand invests in the arts sector. So one presumes there are discussions between the Minister and Creative New Zealand when it comes to decisions made by the organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003ECreative New Zealand\u2019s strategic plan for 2007 onwards states that the three major components of its plan are vision, purpose, and values. When I look at that statement, and think about the discussions the Minister must have about the values that Creative New Zealand must consider, and look at some of the grants made in 2007, I see in particular \u201CChoreographic Fellowship for acclaimed Auckland dancemaker and choreographer Lemi Ponifasio.\u201D This gentleman was granted fellowships worth about $65,000. But I am also interested in a grant for $35,000, made so that he could invite certain people on a tour of The Tempest. Now, remember this grant was made in 2007, and I see that in the discussions with the Minister, perhaps, the \u201Cvalues of Creative New Zealand\u201D indicate that this money should be spent on Mr Tame Iti and also Mr Ahmed Zaoui\u2014the refugee. He is sharing in the $35,000 to travel around the world, as a result of the \u201Cvalues\u201D attributed by Creative New Zealand to people like Mr Tame Iti, the well-known firer of shotguns in public places. I cannot refer to any other matters that are happening at the present time, but they are well known to the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b558c077b7fc429aab785b425a2495aa\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: Art takes many forms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276bc45a4c9d348aa8c62611b88db4e40\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is not supposed to interject, either. Now, $35,000 shows that Mr Tame Iti knows how to suck on the taxpayer. That is what I say. How can he and Mr Zaoui screw $35,000 out of the taxpayer, to have a world trip on Creative New Zealand? It is quite amazing. The Minister should have discussions with Creative New Zealand, as to the way it is established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister what she does with her time. Does she have discussions with Creative New Zealand? Does it advise her that it is going to spend $35,000 on the likes of Mr Zaoui and Mr Tame Iti to travel around the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EI agree with Sandra Zaoui and I presume her criticism is related to\u2014[Interruption] It is Sandra Goudie\u2014it rhymes, it was a slip of the tongue. I agree with her concern about Mr Zaoui. I was getting ahead of myself. But we also know that Mr John Key supports Mr Tame Iti\u2019s trip around the world, and rubs noses with him whenever possible. I find it terribly, terribly disappointing that a man with the reputation of Mr Tame Iti should be encouraged by the leader of the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EAs far as New Zealand First is concerned, Creative New Zealand is not spending its money properly; it should be considering the values that are part of its charter. I say that if Mr Tame Iti does not come back it will be a great day for New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022 data-id=\u002258da1b916dba45e397bc27435ef7f149\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258da1b916dba45e397bc27435ef7f149\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member but the time for the debate has expired. The debate on the performance in 2006/2007 and current operations of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises has therefore concluded. I will report the debate to the House presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EDebate to be reported presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022580f41a989ed43de9acc2266577ec002\u0022\u003EBirths, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022408e52b211b74c80a3d7ab2c1634e126\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002217dff0408de24003af8ad113848e1551\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022 data-id=\u00220ad1b5f84a554ad99aaa4ded66402303\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ad1b5f84a554ad99aaa4ded66402303\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL (National\u2014Rakaia):\u003C/span\u003E It is the convention in this Chamber that we acknowledge the work our officials do. When I took a call in the second reading debate I omitted to do that, so I want to put the record right by acknowledging the fine work they did, and I have to say to members that it is not the officials\u2019 fault that we have before us a piece of arrant, bloody nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EThis bill should not have come to the House. There was no problem that needed fixing, but the Minister in the chair, the Hon Rick Barker, and his PC mates on the Government Administration Committee insisted on bringing it to the House despite the public outcry and the words of constructive criticism from the National Party. But would they listen? No, they would not. It is a real stretch to believe that Harry Duynhoven, who is a pretty good bloke, really thinks there is a problem around people accessing information and breaking privacy rules when they engage in historical, social history, and genealogy activities. The Minister in the chair, for goodness sake, is a West Coast boy. Does he really believe he will be upset about a few people accessing information and finding out that someone slept on the wrong side of the blanket? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EA number of renowned academics came to the select committee and said to us: \u201CThis is wrong.\u201D The Minister and his colleagues in the select committee told us that this bill has had wide consultation\u2014but it has not. That is the truth of the matter. The submitters who came to the select committee said: \u201CYou have not consulted us on this, and if you had we would have told you that there is no problem that needs fixing. You are creating a huge problem to satisfy the needs of a very few, and you are making the study of our social history nigh on impossible.\u201D People like Professor Rice\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225650456768dc4885913e7510c2c4f29d\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022626657f4cab54324944ac3d7f7847539\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL\u003C/span\u003E: Someone called out \u201CRubbish!\u201D. I do not know who the member was but it certainly could not have been Darien Fenton because she was at the select committee when Professor Rice, the head of the history faculty at Canterbury University, came to us and said that this bill will impede academic excellence. [Interruption] Now we have the Government pugilist calling out, as well. We have it on good authority that he hits like a pansy, but we will excuse that for the moment. He has nothing to contribute to this debate so I suggest that he just keeps his mouth closed, stays in his corner, and keeps his seconds with him. Otherwise he will end up on his proverbial back. Now, let us get back to the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EThe advice from Professor Rice was that we would need to change this. The National Party offered constructive criticism at the same time. In fact, in the end we were forced to include a National Party view in the report back, and I have to say it is a beautifully crafted piece of work. The persons who contributed to that, I think, are rising stars in the National Party\u2014I really do. They have a big future. I actually took the time to refer to that report last night in the House. I pointed out to the House why that report was compulsory reading. The Minister, I think, took it home for his bedtime reading and said: \u201COh my God, these guys are right.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EDo members know what will happen through the course of this debate? The Minister in the chair will introduce a Supplementary Order Paper that canvasses most of the concerns\u2014I stand corrected; it deals with about half a dozen of them. One of the Supplementary Order Papers is nearly as big as the original bill. Do members know why he is doing that? It is because he realises that from the outset the submitters and the National Party were right. But rather than listen to those arguments at the time, he decided that he would slip this Supplementary Order Paper in the back door. Do members know what the problem with that is? It perverts our democracy, because submitters do not now have an opportunity to look at what is inherent or incorporated in the Supplementary Order Paper. That is fundamentally wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EI said last night, when I took a call during the second reading debate, that the Christchurch Press, that tabloid that will do anything in pursuit of a populist theme, also came out swinging. It said that the Minister has got this wrong, that there is no problem, and that the legislation is denying people legitimate access to information. [Interruption] The Minister in the chair will get an opportunity to speak in a moment or two. He knows that I and my colleagues are right. He knows that the Supplementary Order Paper he will slip into the Chamber should have been put forward during the select committee process. If due process had been followed, we would not have been forced into the position we are in. The people of New Zealand would have had the opportunity to come to the select committee and examine what is being proposed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EThat Minister and his colleagues have denied New Zealanders that fundamental right. That tends to be the modus operandi of this Government. Whenever it is stuck and whenever it wants to sneak something in under the radar it slips in a Supplementary Order Paper at the last minute. Well, we are sick to death of it. The \u201CWaimak bantam\u201D was in the Chamber earlier. He rose to his feet\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244f69955e03c465199f4108b2969db11\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ecf6c5c6ff745969ab1307bcaee917e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014Mr Connell, would you withdraw that comment please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227668a18e40bc4a5aa4ef0e672ba5a19c\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw. That short chap\u2014what is his name? Clayton Cosgove. Mr Cosgrove was in the Chamber earlier. He rose to his feet and cast his stature across the Chamber. Fortunately, it is not quite as big as his ego, but nevertheless he stuck his chest out like a pigeon puff and started to berate members for having the audacity, in their legitimate role as representatives in this House, to criticise the Government, and we are sick to death of it. He came down to the Chamber\u2014and other members have been doing the same\u2014and criticised members on this side for taking the argument to the Government. He made demeaning statements, which I take very personally, about people being on the B team and the C team and whatever. He denies the facts on this piece of legislation. Seven Ministers debated this bill during the first and second readings. How can this matter be important when they debate it\u2014actually, they were filibustering at the time\u2014but be unimportant when we do? That is the attitude\u2014that is what is wrong with what the Minister is about to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EGovernment members treat the people of New Zealand with disdain, and it is no wonder that the National Party now has 15 clear points on this Government. Trevor Mallard will be brushing up his boxing skills. He will be thinking of going into the ring as a professional boxer, but, really, he should look for an alternative career. Rick Barker will probably be looking to get back to the West Coast where a few people love him. [Interruption] The junior Labour whip, who is yelling out\u2014I do not know what her name is\u2014is not worthy of comment, because she does not add much to the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EThe point is that people are sick to death of the modus operandi of this Government. This is the type of legislation that simply should not have been before the House. I ask the Minister to address this question when he gets the opportunity: what is the problem that Labour is trying to fix? All the submitters, bar one or two who were Labour Party ring-ins, said that there is no problem. What the Government is creating, though, is a huge problem. If the Minister tries to answer that question he will simply contradict himself, because he is going to produce a Supplementary Order Paper that actually says: \u201CYou were right in the first place and, oh my God, I should have listened to you. I should have listened to Sandra Goudie and Shane Ardern, and I should have listened to Harry Duynhoven.\u201D That is probably not doing Harry\u2019s chances of getting promoted a lot of good, but he is a man of integrity. He knows this bill is arrant nonsense, and he had the courage to say so. What he was trying to convey to his PC colleagues was that there is not a problem. There is nothing to fix here. How can it be that people of such academic renown can come to the select committee and say: \u201CYou\u2019re causing a problem.\u201D, and the Government will not listen to them? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022454ba3f0c4b448769600bf0a4d83131a\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: We did listen to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0bb58660cfb4f81a0dbc70dd2897141\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that member did not listen to them. I made a suggestion, and the member who just called out denied me the suggestion. I said we should bring some of the academics into the select committee in order to understand exactly what their concerns are. There were officials at the select committee who were spouting the Minister\u2019s or the Labour\u2019s Government\u2019s position\u2014and that is fine, I have no criticism about that; that is their job. But the academics\u2014and the men and women off the street\u2014were also expressing the same concerns. I said we should get those specialists into the same room so that we could be advised of the facts and could then produce worthwhile and constructive legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f871e0ca86eb4bbf968b43050f7d787b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f871e0ca86eb4bbf968b43050f7d787b\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E First, let me take a minor point. Brian Connell made reference to the Hon Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s contribution to the Committee earlier tonight. Clayton Cosgrove was not denying the right of the National Party to put up a position, at all. He was welcoming it. He was simply pointing out that the National Party was blaming Labour for the power crisis in Auckland, which had occurred under a National Government. He was simply highlighting the stupidity of a National member\u2019s contribution; that was all he was trying to do. The member should just accept that this is a place for robust debate, without being personal about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI come now to the member\u2019s question about what the problem is. Well, the problem is quite a simple one. Firstly, this bill is about protecting individuals\u2019 identities\u2014protecting individuals from identity theft. If one wants access to somebody\u2019s personal details, one finds that the records system in New Zealand is completely and utterly open. Anybody can walk in off the street and get anybody\u2019s personal details. People do not have to identify themselves, and they can do what they will with the information. We have seen example after example of identity theft.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe most interesting thing about that issue is that some time ago I got a letter from the member who is shouting out now, Sandra Goudie. She was raising a complaint from constituents who were outraged that someone had gone to the Births, Deaths and Marriages register, got details of their family\u2019s personal records, and had them in his or her possession, and the family had known nothing about it. Sandra Goudie wanted to know how that could happen, so that she could explain it to those constituents, who were outraged that their personal information had been obtained. Well, the same member is opposing the changes in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022599d467b98664cb5a10f3279058724d5\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f584eff78cf4fc582308f0fd3b28ac3\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will pull the correspondence out and table it for the member later. It shows that she is completely confused on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003ESo the first thing that this bill is about is protecting identities. The second thing is that up till this date the record has been a paper record, but in the future it will be a digital record. When it is a digital record it can be accessed remotely, and therefore we will have little or no control over who has access to the record. People could have access to all the historical and current data, and from that they could create an identity\u2014a false identity\u2014and use it for a range of purposes. Someone I know said to me that, using the basic details from Births, Deaths and Marriages records, they could within days accumulate tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt against an individual\u2019s name. The State requires people to give us this information; the State therefore has a corresponding obligation to ensure that it does its best to protect that information. That is one tension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EOn the other side of it, there is a legitimate case to be made that people should have access to this information in order to know that a person does exist. People should be able to identify that I, Richard John Barker, exist and am still alive. I accept that that is a legitimate purpose. I should not be able to hide that information; it is true. People should also be able to identify whether people are New Zealand citizens. I accept that, as well. The record should be able to be searched, but we should know the purpose for which people are searching it, and who is searching it, so that if there is a problem or an issue in the future, we trace backwards to find out who created the mischief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe other point I want to make is about historical research. Under the current system, if historians want to access the record, they have to name the individuals about whom they want information. There is no ability currently to search the record for all births in a particular area. One has to know the names of the people who were born in that area, and to identify them. This new legislation will give researchers the opportunity to trawl through this information by area, by region, by time, and so on. They will have a much more powerful research tool than they currently have. This bill will advance the ability of historians to research our records, and I think that is a very good thing. But we have to do it in a way that does not take away the right of individual people to have their records protected. We also have to make sure that when we have this information, we use it sensibly. So I say that there are great benefits in this legislation for genealogists, and there are great benefits in it for historians, but we also have to make sure that we protect individuals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI accept that the mood of the House was to accept the legislation as introduced. It was sent to a select committee. At that point, some members and parties had some doubts about it, so there were some discussions about it, and they were robust discussions, which is as it should be. This is a democracy; we should have these discussions. I forwarded to the select committee a proposal that would meet the concerns\u2014which I thought were legitimate\u2014of historians and genealogists, who want access to the record; that would meet the concerns of those people who want their identities to be protected; and that would ensure that there was a screen, but a not particularly tough screen and one that we could vary over time by regulation. I wanted the select committee to consider that proposal, but it was rejected. The select committee did not want to consult on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293c303819aaf4a99891995d6c2466779\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: The time had expired, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dd0b4f79c0c49658317ffeaa25dc5b2\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the select committee could have come back and asked for more time. Notwithstanding that, that proposal will be put before the Committee in the form of a Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249f6a7bcd98a413c8714f5a1e274eb3a\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: It will be? Oh, good. When will that be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222927508e4c7c4064ad31048ca1df3f26\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is on the Table tonight, and we will debate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI am confident that a majority of the House now favours this legislation. I thank all those people who have worked through this issue. It is important to find the balance between openness and allowing access to the record, and protection of individuals\u2019 identity from fraud. It is a serious issue to be discussed, and not one to be made light of. This bill is also much-needed in that it updates the way in which we manage the record, to take into account the fact that we are moving from a paper record to a digital record that can be accessed remotely. We needed to do that. The legislation also updates a number of other features.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI thank the committee and officials who worked on it. I thank the other parties who cooperated in negotiating to find an amicable agreement about it. I think the hallmark of MMP is that we can introduce legislation, we can have robust discussions about it, and we can find new consensus about it. I think that is a good thing. I think this bill makes a good point about the importance and value of MMP. I thank all those concerned who have made contributions on this bill so far, and I welcome the discussion on this bill as it goes through the Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u002214fa20b6d1b14131b615144af32214f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214fa20b6d1b14131b615144af32214f1\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki-King Country):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in opposition to this Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Amendment Bill, for a lot of the reasons that have been stated. I have been wondering for some time, until I listened to the Minister tonight and looked at the number of Supplementary Order Papers, about what was really going on, but I think I have now figured it out. We certainly could not figure it out in the Government Administration Committee. I acknowledge the officials and the work that they did to help us to find our way along a very difficult path in the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EWhat I think has happened is that Dr Michael Cullen\u2014for whom, I hesitate to admit in front of my colleagues tonight, I have a reasonable amount of admiration for his ability to manage the House process as a politician, and as someone who has survived in this place for a long time\u2014has gone through the legislative time frame looking forward for the next 3 months or 6 months. He has decided that the Order Paper is very thin, and that we need to go back and look at legislation that has a few years on it. Last night we were debating legislation that had nothing wrong with it, but it was passed in 1946. Tonight we are debating legislation that was passed in 1956, and there is nothing wrong with that. What I can see happening is that the Leader of the House has told his ministerial colleagues to get someone, maybe a PhD student, to trawl through all the legislation in Parliament and find something the Government can put up, because it needs something to go on in order to fill up the time of the House. So we have the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Amendment Bill to debate in the Chamber tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe select committee did do its work. We went through a thorough process, I say to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Rick Barker. All of the concerns raised during that process were totally overlooked or overruled until the Government members did the numbers, and, hello, they counted their fingers and toes. Rick Barker kicked one of his shoes off and, hello, he found that things were not adding up here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a82f6bac18994451bd4e86ff4d712eeb\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Six toes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022664cd062e9c144b599800a5f604562e4\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Right! Well, he asked where the Government should start, and what should happen now. He went back and started with the point of least resistance. He knew that the Nats had dug in a bit, so he went to the Greens and asked what their concerns were. He ran through their concerns and said two or three Supplementary Order Papers should be able to fix those concerns up. That was a few numbers in the bag. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThen Rick Barker went to New Zealand First, which has Peter Brown, who had quite a few concerns about the bill. He raised them legitimately in the select committee, and he did a fine job of doing that. Rick Barker thought that he had better get Peter Brown\u2019s concerns tidied, so he asked what he needed to do in order to achieve that. And, what do we know, members get here tonight with\u2014well, I do not know how many Supplementary Order Papers we are up to now. I say to the Minister that the Supplementary Order Papers are pretty good. They have on them most of what was suggested to him at the time of the select committee process. Here we are tonight, in the Committee stage of this bill, with something like what was recommended at the beginning, which might have been a bit of useful legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EBut the reality is this. We had genealogists, we had academics, and we had all sorts of people with all sorts of qualifications\u2014even journalists\u2014appear before the select committee. We had the editors of both the Dominion Post and the New Zealand Herald appear before the select committee, representing the wider journalism fraternity. They said to us in no uncertain terms\u2014in fact, I got myself into a bit of strife by taking on one or two of them\u2014that this bill would make the information that they need to report from time to time much more difficult. They said that they would not have such easy access as they do at present to accurate information for things that are important to the public if this bill was to proceed in the way that had been intended to. Some of the genealogists said that they would not be able to carry out what most people would see as being in our best interests, whether as individuals or as the public at large, if this bill was to pass in the way that it was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003ESo I am pleased that the Minister has gone back, looked at some of the submissions, and produced the Supplementary Order Papers that he has produced tonight. But at this stage the National Party\u2014now that the Government has denied those who have contributed to the legislation the opportunity to participate in the process in the select committee\u2014will not support such a shonky process. So we cannot support the passage of this legislation. National members are concerned about the lack of a clear problem definition. There was no problem. We asked about the fraudulent behaviour or activity that might take place, and we also asked about potential fraud that could take place, given that we are now moving into a more digital age of recording and computerised information. We asked at that stage about any evidence there was of fraud\u2014any evidence\u2014or where the potential for fraud might be, and we were unable to find such evidence. There was all sorts of speculation\u2014you know; if one stepped out on the road, then one might get run over, and if the moon falls, then the world will go off its apex. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the debate on the performance and current operations of Crown entities, public organisations and State enterprises; progress on the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Amendment Bill; and no progress on the Family Court Matters Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200805141cdd8af2799141a58416817da62ed26d000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"