"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e20b54de25104123aae553c565bb6186\u0022\u003ETuesday, 9 December 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220350e20406b5471a94178ad192a90264\u0022\u003ETuesday, 9 December 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 11 a.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223060473cff96484aae91e6fa117ae8b1\u0022\u003EElection of Speaker\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ea57f64b4012a35747b5207330ab\u0022\u003EElection of Speaker\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a233f0dc8b954ab9bafe544588d802bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a233f0dc8b954ab9bafe544588d802bf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have to report that, accompanied by members, I waited upon His Excellency the Governor-General at Parliament House yesterday, when I addressed His Excellency as follows:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMay it please Your Excellency: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn obedience to Your Excellency\u2019s request, the Members of the House of Representatives, in the exercise of their undoubted rights and privileges, have proceeded to the election of a Speaker, and, as the subject of their choice, I now present myself to you and submit myself for Your Excellency\u2019s confirmation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003ETo which His Excellency replied as follows:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, it is with much pleasure that I approve the choice by the House of Representatives of you as its Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EI congratulate you on your election to this distinguished office, marking as it does the appreciation of the House of Representatives of your impartiality and ability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EI have further to report that I also addressed His Excellency as follows:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EI humbly thank Your Excellency for your confirmation of the choice made by the Members of the House of Representatives of me to be their Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EI have now, on their behalf, to lay claim to all their privileges, and especially to freedom of speech in debate, to free access to Your Excellency whenever occasion may require it, and to the most favourable construction being put on all their proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003ETo which His Excellency replied as follows:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, I confirm all the rights and privileges of the House of Representatives which have ever been granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EI assure you that the House of Representatives shall always have ready access to me, and that I will at all times place the most favourable construction upon its proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EI desire to repeat my respectful acknowledgment to the House of the high honour it has done me in electing me to be its Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229fa88487912a4c0c9d27517ff9645209\u0022\u003EAuthority to Administer Oath\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022312e32c6001c4e10ab5ea7c6630a7a15\u0022\u003EAuthority to Administer Oath\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022 data-id=\u00221715a02f589e4229a47aa12052fc9008\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221715a02f589e4229a47aa12052fc9008\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received the following authorisation from His Excellency the Governor-General to administer the oath or affirmation prescribed by law to be taken or made by members of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EPursuant to section 11 of the Constitution Act 1986, I, The Honourable Anand Satyanand, Governor-General of New Zealand, hereby authorise you,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe Honourable Dr Alexander Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003ESpeaker of the House of Representatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003Eto administer to members of Parliament the Oath or Affirmation of Allegiance to Her Majesty The Queen required to be taken or made by every such member before that member shall be permitted to sit or vote in the House of Representatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY, Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EAnand Satyanand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EGovernor-General\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E1 December 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224cfa226794334895b5fe9ad2798ddc8e\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f17073646ae54151988ce3a49871deb7\u0022\u003EMichael John Minogue QSO\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d78795bab3924d16b6fe5d89f99b4f47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d78795bab3924d16b6fe5d89f99b4f47\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I regret to inform the House of the death on 27 November 2008 of Michael John Minogue QSO, who represented the electorate of Hamilton West from 1975 to 1984. I desire, on behalf of this House, to express our sense of the loss we have sustained, and our sympathy with the relatives of the late former member. I now ask members to stand with me and observe a period of silence as a mark of respect to his memory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EHonourable members stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002288d3d907c1be4ac5bfc9c6c48a32bee7\u0022\u003EMihi\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b2152b7e5924451a9f691343b4ca557\u0022\u003EMihi\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022532d4f74b89a4ae7a7130a0a1378e7c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022532d4f74b89a4ae7a7130a0a1378e7c3\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-Rawhiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. Ki a t\u0101tou katoa ng\u0101 kanohi M\u0101ori i konei, e mihi kau ana. Ki a r\u0101tou e mau ana i te korowai o te mana whenua, o te hau k\u0101inga nei, e mihi kau ana. Ki a koe te Kaiwhakahaere o te Whare nei, e t\u016B atu m\u0101tou katoa, e mihi kau ana ki a koe. \u014C t\u0101tou o ng\u0101i M\u0101ori mai i Aotearoa me w\u0113tahi o t\u0101tou e t\u016B kaha, e mau i te manaaki atu ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, ng\u0101 awhi o \u014D t\u0101tou o Aotearoa, e mihi kau ana t\u0113nei m\u014D t\u0101tou katoa ng\u0101i M\u0101ori mai i Aotearoa. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E[Greetings, one and all. I extend my greetings to all the M\u0101ori members gathered here, as well as to local iwi, our guardians of the region. To all of you who wear the cloaks of your various tribes staunchly, I greet you. Mr Speaker, we acknowledge you. M\u0101ori throughout New Zealand stand with me as I extend blessings and support to you and all of us here. Greetings to us all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222d380296fe7d4236a3159f15d40ff4c3\u0022\u003EState Opening\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e59ef605e654c90ba32fcfdfa60596a\u0022\u003EState Opening\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000040\u0022\u003EA message from His Excellency the Governor-General desiring the immediate attendance of honourable members in the Legislative Council Chamber was delivered by the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000042\u0022\u003EAccordingly, Mr Speaker and honourable members, preceded by the Serjeant-at-Arms, proceeded to the Legislative Council Chamber, and, after a short absence, returned.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022201470f8995248858fc3575281248d9e\u0022\u003EGovernor-General\u2019s Speech\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002249a51385933743a4aa8eda040a9cdf4e\u0022\u003EGovernor-General\u2019s Speech\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d98dd1271ea24815a8ab45bec820fd59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d98dd1271ea24815a8ab45bec820fd59\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I desire to report that when the House did attend His Excellency the Governor-General this day in the Legislative Council Chamber, His Excellency was pleased to make a speech, the text of which was handed to me by His Excellency, and I now lay such text on the Table of the House. The text of the speech is: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EHonourable Members of the House of Representatives. It is a privilege for me to exercise the prerogative of Her Majesty the Queen and open the 49th Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EE nga mana, e nga reo, e nga rangatira ma, tena koutou, tena koutou, tena koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EJust over four weeks ago New Zealanders elected a new Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe outcome of the election clearly demonstrated New Zealanders\u2019 desire for a new government and, in the view of my Government, a desire for a fresh approach to our country\u2019s challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EWithin two weeks of that election, negotiations between political parties enabled the formation of a new National-led Government that commands the votes of 69 members of this Parliament on confidence and supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThose confidence and supply agreements are held with the ACT Party, the M\u0101ori Party and the United Future Party. These agreements will form the basis of constructive and mana-enhancing working relationships and will enable my Government to govern in an effective, stable and inclusive manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EBeyond these agreements, my Government anticipates co-operating with other parties in Parliament on issues of mutual interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EHonourable members. The driving goal of the new Government will be to grow the New Zealand economy in order to deliver greater prosperity, security and opportunities to all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt will be going for growth because it believes in the power of economic growth to deliver higher incomes, better living conditions and, ultimately, a stronger society for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government knows that only a strong economy will guarantee financial security for families, well paid jobs in New Zealand for our young people, and larger superannuation payments for our older people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn pursuing this goal of economic growth my Government will be guided by the principle of individual freedom and a belief in the capacity and right of individuals to shape and improve their own lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government believes that building a stronger economy in the term of this Parliament will not be without considerable challenges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThese are extraordinarily difficult times for the country and the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe world is experiencing what is now being described as the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s. Global credit flows have dried up, financial institutions have fallen over, sharemarkets have plunged and economies worldwide are falling into recession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand economy has been in recession this year and economic growth in 2009 is forecast to be low. Asset values are falling and unemployment is predicted to rise. The Government will run an operating deficit this year and is likely to do so for some years to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government believes that in such challenging times our country can not afford its Parliament to be distracted from the issues that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003ESo my Government will not seek to involve itself in decisions that are best made by New Zealanders within their own homes and their own communities. The new Government\u2019s vision is not to dictate the way in which New Zealanders should live their lives, but instead to ensure they have the opportunities they need to make the best choices for themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government will therefore, in representing the will of New Zealanders, remain resolutely focused on the issues that matter, pre-eminent of which will be the need to strengthen the economy to ensure future economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EHonourable members. My Government is concerned that in recent years, New Zealand\u2019s productivity growth has been poor, our after-tax wages have slipped further and further behind those in Australia, and record numbers of people have departed our shores to live permanently overseas. New Zealand\u2019s economy has slipped further behind those of other OECD countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt is the view of my Government that if New Zealand\u2019s past ten years were to be described as the decade of missed opportunities, then the next ten years must be the decade of maximized opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government intends to embrace New Zealand\u2019s clear opportunities for improved economic performance and to use them to deliver better wages and living conditions for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt commits to, amongst other steps, an ongoing programme of personal tax reductions; a step-up in infrastructure investment; a reduction in government bureaucracy in favour of frontline services; an across-the-board commitment to lifting productivity growth and a renewed effort to lift education standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn recognition of the current financial crisis, my Government will move quickly to provide much-needed fiscal stimulus to the flagging economy, in the form of personal tax reductions and a step-up in infrastructure investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government is today tabling a Bill to reduce personal taxes from 1 April 2009. Its intention is to pass this new tax legislation by Christmas and it believes this tax reduction will equip New Zealanders with some much needed extra cash in tough economic times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EPersonal taxes will be further reduced from 1 April 2010 and from 1 April 2011. As a result, by 1 April 2011 around 80% of New Zealand taxpayers will end up paying no more than 20c in tax for every additional dollar that they earn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThis programme of tax reduction is a central part of the economic plan of my Government, because it believes in encouraging New Zealanders to get ahead under their own steam, and it views personal tax reductions as an essential step in ensuring that can happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn addition to this tax programme, my Government will urgently set about tackling the infrastructure blockages evident in New Zealand\u2019s economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThis will involve a stepped-up programme of Crown infrastructure investment, with many overdue projects brought forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThis infrastructure programme will in the short-term create much-needed jobs and economic stimulus, while in the medium-term it will help unclog the arteries of the New Zealand economy and improve economic productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EOf particular focus will be the development of new roading and public transport projects, the improvement and expansion of school property in a 21st Century school-building programme and the accelerated roll-out of an ultra-fast broadband network across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe development of this ultra-fast broadband network will be critically important to New Zealand\u2019s growth prospects, as it will provide New Zealanders with high-speed, real-time Internet connections to the world, and will give rise to new enterprise and innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn this area of infrastructure investment, as in others, my Government will work constructively with the private sector in order to maximize the impact of public investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn parallel with this commitment to infrastructure investment, my Government will undertake a two-step reform of the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe first stage of this reform will be focused on improving the consent process and will include amendments to streamline and simplify the Act, including priority consenting for projects of national significance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe second stage of this reform will focus on improving decision-making around infrastructure, water and urban design.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe goal of both stages of reforms will be to reduce the costs, delays and uncertainties in current law that my Government believes are holding back development and job creation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government is acutely aware that despite the measures I have just outlined, the enormity of the economic challenges that New Zealand faces today are such that unemployment is forecast to rise in the months ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt believes that the economic crisis will not be averted by cutting government spending and social support, but rather by backing the everyday New Zealanders who, through their hard work and resilience, will power New Zealand through this recession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn what may be particularly tough times, my Government is determined to \u2018stay the course\u2019 with New Zealanders, by giving those who have lost their jobs the support they need to get back on their feet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EBefore Christmas my Government will announce the details of its transitional relief, \u2018Re-Start\u2019, package to help those New Zealanders worst hit by redundancy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThis package will be carefully targeted and designed to help people who have worked hard and who have big aspirations for the future but who will be, through no fault of their own, coping with a big financial blow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn this area, as in all others, my Government intends that its actions reflect the belief that New Zealand is a country built on a sense of fairness and a sense of our obligations to each other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt is confident that as the steps I have just outlined are taken, the country will be able to push through this downturn and onto a longer-term pathway to stronger growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn the short-term, my Government is committed to shoring-up the liquidity of the financial system. It will continue to support the retail deposit and wholesale banking government guarantees currently backing our financial sector. Its intention is to continue those guarantees for as long as - but no longer than - they are needed to ensure the effective operation of our banking system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe new Government notes that of the $14 billion of assets in the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, less than 25% is currently invested in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt believes this Fund should be used to invest in our country\u2019s future growth and to underwrite our future prosperity. My Government will therefore set a target of at least 40% of the Super Fund to be invested in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn addition, it will take steps to ensure that saving is a more affordable choice for more New Zealanders by reducing the minimum employee contributions to Kiwisaver to 2% of an employee\u2019s gross salary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government also wishes to address the issue of New Zealand\u2019s low productivity growth and intends to lead by example, by carefully examining public spending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt will require that public agencies focus taxpayers\u2019 money on the frontline services they have a right to expect and that public spending is scrutinized to ensure sure it is deployed to good effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government is concerned that for the past several years the number of people employed in the public service has grown at a rate that has not been matched by a commensurate increase in the level of services provided to the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIts focus therefore will be on improving services to the public and not on increasing the number of public servants engaged in government administration. To that end, it will halt the growth in government bureaucracy and ensure that resources are focused on the provision of frontline services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government recognises that the public accounts leave little room for new spending over the next few years. It will work hard to make the most out of every dollar, so as to deliver high-quality public services and to protect the vulnerable from the sharp edge of a recession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EFurthermore, in order to help businesses and employers through this downturn and onto a stronger growth pathway, it will focus on reducing the regulatory and compliance demands that get in the way of productivity growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn addition to the reforms to the Resource Management Act I outlined earlier, my Government will undertake a regulatory review programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThis review will identify and remove inefficient and superfluous regulation and it will ensure that regulations are used sparingly and effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EAs signalled in its confidence and supply agreement with the ACT Party, the Government will undertake a review of the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government believes that New Zealand as a responsible international citizen, and as a country that values our clean, green environment, must act to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and to confront global climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn this area, as in others, it will pursue an appropriate balance between meeting our environmental responsibilities and taking up our economic opportunities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the ETS review will therefore be to ensure the reduction of emissions in ways that result in the least cost to New Zealand\u2019s society and economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government acknowledges that efforts to reduce emissions at home must be matched by efforts to reduce emissions abroad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt will honour its Kyoto Protocol obligations and it will work to achieve further global alliances that build on the goals agreed to at Kyoto. In approaching future international climate change negotiations it will work with fellow countries on finding a pragmatic way to include large emitters like China, the United States, India and Brazil. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government will also advocate firmly in international negotiations for the appropriate recognition of New Zealand\u2019s unique agricultural-emissions-profile. This push will be buttressed by increased public investment in research and development to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from livestock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EHonourable members. An unwavering focus on lifting education standards will be a critical aspect of the Government\u2019s plans for strengthening New Zealand\u2019s economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt will work to modernise New Zealand\u2019s school system to ensure it responds to the varied needs of our young people and that it prepares them for the demands of tomorrow\u2019s employers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EOf particular concern to my Government is the long tail of underachievement that it sees in our schools, with as many as one in five young New Zealanders leaving school without the skills and qualifications they need to succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003ESteps will be taken across the board to confront this problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn early childhood education particular focus will be given to ensuring early childhood providers respond to the needs of New Zealand families and that children from less privileged homes are better engaged in pre-school education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn primary schools, the introduction of National Standards in literacy and numeracy and the new requirement that every pupil\u2019s progress be assessed against these standards will ensure that problems are identified early and confronted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn addition, parents will be better informed about their children\u2019s literacy and numeracy progress through a new requirement that National Standards results be reported in Plain English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThese steps will be critical parts of my Government\u2019s intended crusade to improve literacy and numeracy standards throughout New Zealand\u2019s school system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn secondary schools, many students will get more out of their education as a result of my Government\u2019s \u2018Trades in Schools\u2019 policy. This will include the development of specialised Trades Academies, expanded opportunities for school-based apprenticeships and enhanced trades and technology-based learning opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EAt the senior end of secondary school the newly elected Government will introduce a Youth Guarantee. This will provide 16 and 17 year olds with an entitlement to free school-level education at a wider range of institutions including polytechnics, wananga and private training establishments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn tertiary education, my Government will work to streamline the bureaucracy, ensure course quality, and to respond better to employers\u2019 and students needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn recognition of chronic workforce shortages, it will introduce voluntary bonding schemes, based on student-loan write-offs, for graduates in hard-to staff areas across a range of professions, including doctors, nurses, midwives, vets, and teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EHonourable members. I have outlined today a number of steps my Government will take to strengthen the New Zealand economy both for today and for the years ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government has made it clear that its plans for the economy set the foundation for a wider set of aspirations. The new Government is committed to improving the lives of New Zealanders across a range of fronts, and its policies will reflect this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn particular, it will address the frustrations shared by many New Zealanders who have conveyed to my Government their concerns at the high and climbing levels of violent crime throughout the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government has a number of policies and approaches for reducing violent crime and making our communities safer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003ECriminal gangs and the \u201CP\u201D trade they support will not be tolerated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EYouth offenders will be targeted earlier and more effectively through a new and expanded range of interventions and Youth Court sentences, including \u2018Fresh Start\u2019 programmes incorporating military-style training and intensive mentoring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003ESentencing, parole and bail laws will be strengthened to ensure that sentencing decisions reflect my Government\u2019s view that public safety should be paramount and that parole is a privilege, not a right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EAdditional police officers will be recruited and a greater proportion will be deployed to South Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EPolice will be given new and enhanced powers. These will include the ability to issue on-the-spot protection orders to protect victims of domestic violence and the ability to take DNA from offenders at time of arrest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EVictims of crime will be provided with enhanced rights, support and follow-up services from the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003ENew focus will be brought to rehabilitation within prisons, with enhanced provision of drug and alcohol services and the introduction of compulsory work programmes for prisoners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EHonourable members. My Government is also committed to improving the efficiency and effectiveness of the public health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt observes that in recent years a significant increase in public health spending has not been matched by improved or increased health services to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government intends to reduce surgery waiting lists, to cut wasteful bureaucracy, and to address the health workforce crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EAs highlighted in its agreement with United Future, my Government will make better use of the private sector to deliver public health services, including reducing elective surgery waiting lists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt will also give health professionals a greater say in the running of the health system and it will require District Health Boards to work more collaboratively to improve patients care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s welfare policies, like all its policies, will help people to help themselves. They will reflect its belief that paid work is the route to independence and well-being for most people, and that it is the best way to reduce child poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn this area, as in all areas of social policy, my Government will establish new relationships with the non-government and voluntary groups that are so important to the functioning of a healthy society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EBy working more closely with these groups and turbo-charging their efforts, my Government will tap into the resources, ideas and collective goodwill of New Zealand communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EHonourable members. My Government is impatient to see M\u0101ori standing strong, economically independent and fulfilling the complete promise of their potential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EFor New Zealand to move forward as a nation, the settlement of historical Treaty grievances will be vitally important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government is committed to the expeditious completion of final, durable settlements of historical grievances. Accordingly it will devote fresh energy to this important area. This will be essential to reaching its medium-term goal of achieving just and durable settlement of all historical Treaty claims by 2014. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn addition to these ongoing settlement negotiations, and in accordance with the confidence and supply agreement with the M\u0101ori Party, my Government will undertake a review of the Seabed and Foreshore legislation to ascertain whether it adequately maintains and enhances mana whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIf repeal is necessary it will ensure there is appropriate protection in place to ensure all New Zealanders enjoy access to the foreshore and seabed, through existing and potentially new legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government\u2019s confidence and supply agreement with the M\u0101ori Party further sets out its intention to establish a group to consider constitutional issues including M\u0101ori representation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn addition to a consideration of these issues, it will give New Zealanders the chance to have their say on the Mixed Member Proportional representation system that has formed the basis of this country\u2019s parliamentary elections since 1996. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThis will take the form of a binding referendum, and if a majority of voters decide they want to consider other electoral systems, the new Government will offer them a choice of a range of systems to replace it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government will repeal the Electoral Finance Act. This reflects a concern on the part of my Government that this piece of legislation can be viewed as placing a yoke on free speech and thereby eroding the democratic principles that underpin our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EAs an interim measure it will return to the Electoral Act 1993, with the parts of the Electoral Finance Act dealing with donations added in. It will then work across the Parliament to create durable and effective electoral law that enjoys the support of the New Zealand public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EHonourable members. My Government will ensure that New Zealand exercises a free, independent foreign policy that reflects the best interests of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt will have a bipartisan approach to foreign policy and it will be driven by a considered evaluation of New Zealand\u2019s evolving international interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThis will include an ongoing commitment to trade liberalization and the pursuit of bilateral, regional and world-wide free trade agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIn the course of this Parliamentary term other matters, and other measures, will be laid before you. That is as it should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EWhile I do not seek to lay out all aspects of the new Government\u2019s proposals today, it has made it very clear that at all times strengthening the economy will be front and centre of its priorities. For it is this growth agenda upon which my Government\u2019s vision for New Zealand rests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt aspires to see New Zealanders becoming more prosperous, to see them taxed less and paid more. It wishes to see our people living in safer communities, and to ensure that they have access to world-class educational opportunities and improved health services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EWithout economic growth my Government\u2019s objectives will be compromised, with stronger economic growth, its objectives will be realized more fully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government will aim to raise New Zealander\u2019s sights, and encourage them to set their aspirations higher - for themselves and for their country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EHonourable members. In going for growth my Government will be acutely conscious of the fact that it is in the interests of no New Zealanders, and to the detriment of us all, to allow an underclass to develop in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt will take seriously its duty to protect our most vulnerable citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt will take seriously the importance of the obligations and ties we each, as citizens and as communities, have to each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMost importantly, it will seek to give all New Zealanders the confidence that this is a country where you can get ahead - and that the State, through its agencies and through this Parliament, should reward rather than discourage effort.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EMy Government views economic growth as the platform upon which a stronger New Zealand will be built. It views political leadership from this Parliament as essential to achieving that goal. But it is under no illusion about who the real builders of a stronger economic future will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe true builders of that future are not sitting in this Chamber today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EThe true builders of that future are the millions of New Zealanders working in the homes, the businesses, the industries of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt is they who make this country strong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EIt is they who have placed their trust in us their Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EAnd it is they, our fellow New Zealanders, that my Government will ever seek to serve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bbbde921b0d44fa8353afd463e798b9\u0022\u003EAppointments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aed86c1f36934b4ab2c5d9bd5a6e7dc5\u0022\u003EDeputy Speaker and Assistant Speakers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1f241bb5cc649c5b34cb0fb181875f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1f241bb5cc649c5b34cb0fb181875f3\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Further to an agreement reached by the Business Committee last night, I seek leave for the motions appointing the Deputy Speaker and Assistant Speakers to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3e917bb3c944cc786bb6854665547d8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00222601d606e4614062b9878b51249a22fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222601d606e4614062b9878b51249a22fb\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That William Lindsay Tisch be appointed Deputy Speaker, and that Richard John Barker and Eric Wilbur Roy be appointed Assistant Speakers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289983b2df3ad41859c5def630c2a3066\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238bd0aed8712406ebe4da337920ed692\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002298d4ce8cd7164a02b3de5fcf9d57d958\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298d4ce8cd7164a02b3de5fcf9d57d958\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am at the very start of my apprenticeship in this job, you will understand, and I think I have procedurally misled you. I thank my colleague across the road for recognising that. Might I move again notices of motion Nos 1 to 3 in my name appointing the Deputy Speaker and Assistant Speakers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022b423bb951a534042b3e547ff7640418d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b423bb951a534042b3e547ff7640418d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The member moved and sat down. He moved, presumably, a debatable motion, which is now able to be debated. He cannot now say: \u201CWell, sorry, I made yet another mistake, following my failure yesterday to tell Mr Key to get up and speak after your appointment, Mr Speaker; can I carry on from here?\u201D. I think I did my hardest yesterday, in the Business Committee, to sort things out for the gentleman opposite, who did not know what to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225513db0f0ba47da91c5e356d79e268a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f946190c64fd40c7b553e559e1253f57\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is a bit rich for him now to expect to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c1fe210bf5a42ef887607c4018a8bd5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When I am on my feet the member will sit down. Points of order are meant to be quite brief. The member made his point well. The Hon Gerry Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022c885fae761d24f46b9eff3b0bf2a51a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c885fae761d24f46b9eff3b0bf2a51a3\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to move this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2924390ec694c95b53f5581c0ce0747\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sure that points of order should be made briefly, but also it is normal for the Speaker to give a ruling on them, not just to pass on as though the point of order had not been made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221cfa55623624a698b5af7cc4090e3a0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thought that I had made clear to the member that his point was well made. His point was correct. I come back to the Hon Gerry Brownlee to speak to the Government motion that he has moved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbab5238015b4765b1cf05a6f8e2e52e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If the point was well made, then presumably I now have the call to speak to the previous motion, which was that these matters should be taken immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c489730d19b46bd8ac1009d8245ea87\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is correct that Dr Cullen rose to take the call, but the call was not granted. It is actually up to the Speaker to grant a call. I think Dr Cullen would agree with me that if the call had been given, he would have it, but, in fact, the call was not given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227adbefd9c69e41c98cd6dbb0070deaa2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that point of order, Madam Speaker\u2014sorry, Mr Speaker; the wig confused me\u2014I think the point needs to be made at this stage, rather obviously, that if a person has called for the call, it is not sufficient for somebody else on the other side of the House to stand up and move another motion; something has to happen at that stage. If Mr Brownlee was seeking a call to speak to the actual motion, he could do so, but having moved a motion and sat down, he cannot then stand up and take the call. He either moves the motion and speaks, or moves the motion and sits down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201acabdfa3f64b62a65ca5166f8f70d9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Dr Cullen. Your point is well made. You are correct. The honourable member has forfeited his ability to speak to the motion he moved. Is any other member seeking to take that call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022448396a5f44649238ae68d6f06904fde\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022448396a5f44649238ae68d6f06904fde\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I now seek leave\u2014without losing my right to speak\u2014for Mr Brownlee to speak. I would hate this Parliament to start off without the chance for the Leader of the House to actually move a motion and speak to it as he was supposed to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bedafd698df4987ad2fdcee867d359e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002210f7cdbe509a40d9b5d64abf58f8afe6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210f7cdbe509a40d9b5d64abf58f8afe6\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank goodness for Methusaleh on the other side of the House knowing so much about these procedural things! I think it is fascinating that although I can admit a mistake, the reason why those members are sitting on that side of the Chamber is that they never did. Anyway, having dug myself out of a small amount of difficulty, with the assistance of the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, it is my honour to move the appointment of a Deputy Speaker and two Assistant Speakers. I will mention those people in order: firstly, the nomination for Deputy Speaker is Mr Lindsay Tisch, who is a member of the National Party of long standing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2faa07e451a436c9fc64eb58fbfe5b7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Short standing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224747857f110847bb849c7015d2d29f48\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014no, long standing\u2014and the nominations for the positions of Assistant Speaker are Mr Eric Roy of the National Party and Mr Richard Barker of the Labour Party. The idea, Mr Speaker, is that these people support you in your effort to maintain order in this House. Might I take this opportunity, at a somewhat disjointed point, to congratulate you on your success in being elected Speaker of this House, and to pledge my support to you in that role, given that your role is, in fact, to support the best interests of the House, on behalf of the nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECollectively, these gentlemen have about 39 years of service in this House. More important, each of them has been a party whip and therefore is very, very familiar with the processes that guide the way in which Parliament operates. I am sure that they will bring not only those long years of service but also that very tangible experience of the parliamentary process to the work that they do. Each of them has, I think, the strongest possible support from his own party, and I am confident that each will receive that support from the other members inside the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EI take the opportunity at this point to recognise H V Ross Robertson, a gentleman who was an Assistant Speaker for the 9 years prior to this Parliament, and who made a significant contribution in that regard. I know that Mr Robertson, by his own choice, was not available for appointment to that office in this Parliament, and we respect that, but I do want to record the Government\u2019s considerable respect for the dignity that he brought to the job, and to express the view that those who take up the role that he is exiting are able to do exactly the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, Mr Speaker, I say that we strongly support the appointment of Lindsay Tisch as your deputy, and the appointment of Eric Roy and Richard John Barker to the Assistant Speaker positions, to also support your work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u00222d7e06959abb421b810b259ca4779a76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d7e06959abb421b810b259ca4779a76\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party will be supporting this motion. We recognise the right of the new Government, with a clear majority, to move the motions regarding these appointments in the fashion it sees fit. I do want to make a few comments. The first, obviously, is to join with Mr Brownlee in congratulating you, Mr Speaker, on your appointment. We look forward to working cooperatively with you on many occasions and to assisting you from time to time with points of order, as they may prove to be either necessary or desirable\u2014the two, of course, not always being the same thing within Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to make is that the House has just seen an example of what we have already become familiar with previously from the members opposite\u2014in the Business Committee and elsewhere\u2014which is that the new Government has not yet actually learnt how to run its own business. Indeed, as at 8.30 this morning, it was still unable to tell us what business it was taking under urgency this week, but one could hear the stress in the voice of Mr Brownlee as he conveyed that news to the senior Opposition whip. We look forward to helping him further on these matters, as we have with these appointments today. It had been originally intended to move these appointments during urgency rather than before urgency, which would have invited the Opposition to debate each of these motions down to closure, which, I believe, would not have been in the best interests of good order in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThere are one or two additional points I would like to make. It is unfortunate, I believe\u2014but perhaps inevitable, given certain changes\u2014that for the first time for many years there is no woman amongst the four presiding officers within the House. I hope that that situation can be changed as expeditiously as possible\u2014without suggesting that anybody should undergo any drastic changes in that particular regard. Secondly, I think it is slightly unfortunate that the Government did not decide to follow the precedent set following the last election, whereby the two most senior positions were shared between the two major parties within the House. But I understand that the Government has the right to move in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EI should also say, without wanting to cast any aspersions upon Mr Tisch, who is a person I greatly respect in terms of his performance within the House over many years, that I personally would have preferred to see Mr Roy as the Deputy Speaker, because he has had long experience in the Assistant Speaker\u2019s role. He has very large respect on this side of the House in terms of his abilities, his breadth of knowledge, and, indeed, his very wide experience in terms of reading and other matters. But that is not to be the case, and, Mr Speaker, it is good to see that you have both a small hand and a large hand to help you in the two presiding officers from the National Party. The Hon Rick Barker will be happy to assist in those matters, as well, as we move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWith those few remarks, I say I am very happy that we are supporting these motions. We look forward to working with the new presiding officers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022 data-id=\u00224dcf86155b3e464ba60f3c9403d9479c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dcf86155b3e464ba60f3c9403d9479c\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I rise to speak on behalf of the ACT Party to support the appointment motion, and I join other members of this House in congratulating you on your appointment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EAs I said, we support the motions. We look forward to the appointments of the Deputy Speaker and Assistant Speakers and their helping and assisting you to keep a fair and balanced overview of the proceedings of this House. We look forward to each of you allowing within these walls the freedom of speech that we have become accustomed to and that is fair and proper in a democratic society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party also acknowledges the huge contribution that H V Ross Robertson made to this House. We think he did a fine job as Assistant Speaker over the last 9 years, and we always found him to be very fair in his rulings during proceedings and also during points of order. In this short call I acknowledge the contribution he made; I congratulate you, Mr Speaker, on your appointment; and I say that we look forward to the appointment of the Deputy Speaker and Assistant Speakers to assist you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022 data-id=\u00226fdd8010609c4dab9f7730026edf721e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fdd8010609c4dab9f7730026edf721e\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I would like to congratulate you, Mr Speaker, on your appointment, and I made reference to that yesterday, in M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EI stand on behalf of the M\u0101ori Party to support the motion to appoint Lindsay Tisch as the Deputy Speaker, and Rick Barker and Eric Roy as Assistant Speakers. These roles are crucial to the House and enable the Speaker to carry out the role with great distinction. We require those in the Chair to be absolutely clear in their judgment, impartial, and fair, and to uphold the dignity of the House. In this respect, I would like to acknowledge the honourable Ross Robertson for his care in the House as an Assistant Speaker, particularly with regard to M\u0101ori language\u2014his coming forward and using it openly and consistently. I hope that practice might be followed by the new Speaker, Deputy Speaker, and Assistant Speakers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is proud to have been a signatory to the code of conduct pioneered by four parties in this House\u2014United Future, ACT, the M\u0101ori Party, and the Greens. We believe that the code of conduct actually assists MPs to carry out their duties, and helps the public to have confidence in their parliamentary representatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EI would just like to acknowledge the Speaker, the Deputy Speaker, and the Assistant Speakers. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e12b7a572f284eb7aca183ff3f8d2d83\u0022\u003ECommittees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f84d5d6943645db83456d5194297be2\u0022\u003EBusiness of Select Committees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002253ca3a0a609c44318e3a307b686e22ac\u0022\u003EReporting Dates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00227d6dc0ba79d84648914e987378f78da1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d6dc0ba79d84648914e987378f78da1\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all bills reinstated in this Parliament to be reported back to the House by 30 June 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225737225fabcb4989bf8778b56fb81962\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5cfe871e56541738c4d44911a8ec2fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5cfe871e56541738c4d44911a8ec2fd\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the time by which each select committee must finally report the 2007-08 financial reviews of the performance and current operations of departments and Offices of Parliament, the annual financial statements of the Government for the year ending 2008, and the 2007-08 reports of non-departmental appropriations to be extended to 31 March 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220946bc8c60cd45339ae2e2ace1f28b1e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12.18 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ec447b6377d449cbd432a15caba1918\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002204aa68dc33854445944eb1c28146e187\u0022\u003EAir New Zealand\u2014Airbus Crash, France\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022 data-id=\u00228666d9379ca849acaed0b8fad15ab699\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228666d9379ca849acaed0b8fad15ab699\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move two motions without notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bec5f137debd4eea9c6e1a1da9d92901\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206e36e3cecb44bdd8cd5298c820cc2d2\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That Parliament expresses its sorrow at the tragic death of five New Zealanders in the Airbus A320 crash in Perpignan, France, that it extends its condolences to the family and friends of Brian Horrell, Murray White, Michael Gyles, Noel Marsh, and Jeremy Cook, and that it acknowledges the excellent work undertaken by Air New Zealand and the French authorities in the post-crash investigation and recovery process. The tragedy off the coast of France came as a massive shock to the new Government and to all New Zealanders. Since then our thoughts have been with the families and friends who have lost loved ones. We can do nothing to lessen the grief, but we deeply feel their loss, and on behalf of the Government and all members I extend our sympathies to them. The deaths of senior staff of Air New Zealand and the Civil Aviation Authority have been significant losses to those organisations. This tragic accident came 29 years to the day after the Mount Erebus disaster and is a harrowing reminder of that earlier tragedy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EI would like to briefly acknowledge the leadership of Rob Fyfe, who, I think, has done an outstanding job given the very, very difficult conditions. I spoke to Rob late on Saturday night, and say that he was obviously physically exhausted. He has done everything possible that he can do. I would also like to acknowledge all the staff of Air New Zealand who have rallied around in these difficult circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003ETo New Zealanders, Air New Zealand and its koru symbol are more than just an airline. They are part of who we are; they are symbols of this country that fly far beyond our shores. The men and women who work for Air New Zealand are, in many ways, our ambassadors. They greet and care for thousands of travellers and show them a touch of the great Kiwi spirit of adventure. This tragedy has been a real blow, but we trust, with the good work of Air New Zealand and the Civil Aviation Authority, the Kiwi spirit of adventure will live on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0ea5286957f4081a1fd0de2ccdec8a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0ea5286957f4081a1fd0de2ccdec8a0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the New Zealand Labour Party, I would like to express our sympathy and condolences to the family and friends of all those who died in the Air New Zealand Airbus A320 crash off the coast of southern France. Our hearts go out to the families of the Air New Zealand crew, of the Civil Aviation Authority representative on the plane, and of the two German pilots. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI think that the sense of tragedy was highlighted to me by the grief expressed by the expectant wife of one of those who was killed, and by the parents who, against the whole natural course of events, had to go to France to recover and bury the body of their son. As New Zealanders, all of us would have been affected by seeing the picture of the tail fin of the Airbus, with the koru emblem on it, floating in the ocean. It brought back the memory of a crash, 29 years earlier, of an Air New Zealand plane on Mount Erebus, in Antarctica, where we saw the very sad picture of the koru on the tail fin embedded in the snow. Some years later I had the opportunity to fly over the site, and see the koru, still on the mountain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI would like to pay a tribute to the actions of Air New Zealand, its chief executive officer, Rob Fyfe, and the Civil Aviation Authority, who, I believe, responded in an open and a concerned manner. I also pay tribute to the French authorities who have worked in cooperation with New Zealanders in the recovery operation and the investigation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EAgain, I offer our deepest condolences to all those who suffered the loss of family and friends in this tragedy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022 data-id=\u00222c1545de532547598634075c63736416\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c1545de532547598634075c63736416\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the Green Party I express our sympathy and condolences to the families and friends of those who died. On a personal note I say that I understand what it is like because I had a family member who was killed in a flying accident and it is the most shocking and tragic of events. On behalf of the Greens I say that our hearts are with those people and we have been thinking of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI also hope that something comes out of this accident and we learn something about what caused it, so that flying can be made safe. All of us rely on safe flying, and if we learn what caused this accident, at least something positive will come out of it. Once again, on behalf of the Greens I express sympathy and condolences to the families and friends of those who were killed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022dec21ec66db7409083779901f58a397f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dec21ec66db7409083779901f58a397f\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the ACT Party I join the other parties in this Parliament in paying our respects, and in recognising the grief of families, friends, workmates, and, indeed, people right around New Zealand. When Kiwis lose their lives overseas in tragic circumstances we all feel it, and we realise what a small country we are, because we have a connection to the families or the friends at times such as this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EFive New Zealanders died: pilot Captain Brian Horrell, engineers Murray White, Michael Gyles, and Noel Marsh, and Civil Aviation Authority inspector Jeremy Cook. Along with them died two German pilots, whose families and friends we should also pay our respects to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EI think that it is proper, with the other parties, to say that the leadership of Air New Zealand, and in particular of chief executive Rob Fyfe, has been outstanding. The colleagues and the crew at Air New Zealand have had to continue on in their jobs, and they have done so. As tragic as this accident is, it actually reminds us how safe Air New Zealand has proved to be over the years for all who fly with that company. Indeed, it was a check on the safety of a plane that led to this accident. I think, too, that we should also acknowledge the international help that has been provided to Air New Zealand in this accident\u2014in particular, that of the French authorities, who have done everything that one could ever expect. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cccb25e476024878aebf3932af4d7ea3\u0022 data-id=\u00222f1e5e6e760e4e66b339d7a56b68d359\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cccb25e476024878aebf3932af4d7ea3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f1e5e6e760e4e66b339d7a56b68d359\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. The 28th of November will be etched in our memories forever and a day, and a very sad day in the life of our nation, when we take into account an Air New Zealand flight crash on Mount Erebus 29 years ago, killing 257 people on board, and now this fatal crash of the Airbus in the Mediterranean Sea. It is a tragedy that has touched us all. It moved us last Friday as we travelled around New Zealand, noting that staff were wearing black ribbons to mark their grief. Airports had come to a standstill to observe a minute\u2019s silence, flags flew at half mast at nearby hangars, and tears were shed; hei mau maharatanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cccb25e476024878aebf3932af4d7ea3\u0022\u003EToday we pay our respects to those who lost their lives: senior pilot Captain Brian Horrell, engineers Murray White, Michael Gyles, and Noel Marsh, and Civil Aviation Authority inspector Jeremy Cook. While we at home mourned, on the beach at Perpignan near where the plane crashed Andrew Baker, cultural ambassador, performed the haka as the ultimate and unique national tribute to those who were lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cccb25e476024878aebf3932af4d7ea3\u0022\u003EWe remember them, and we express our sympathies today to their families in Tuat\u0101pere, Christchurch, Pakuranga, Auckland, and Wellington. We hope that in days to come the families and the friends of those who have suffered will remember them with pride, and remember the high esteem with which New Zealanders have regarded these people, who have given so much to the aviation industry and who have paid the ultimate price for their distinguished careers. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022 data-id=\u00228403711496e740c5ae1d47f03b510fe7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228403711496e740c5ae1d47f03b510fe7\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E United Future joins with others in expressing deep sympathy to the families, the friends, and the work colleagues of all who died in the tragic Air New Zealand crash just offshore from Perpignan. I am loath to draw too many comparisons with events at Erebus 29 years ago, not because both are not huge and significant events in New Zealand\u2019s aviation history that we should respect but because each is unique, each saw a significant loss of life, each left families deprived of loved ones, and each left people suffering in its wake, and I think the dignity of each of those events should be respected separately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI want to say a special word about the families and the loved ones who have had to endure the public gaze\u2014inevitably, in a situation like this\u2014as they go through their private grief. I guess for them the hardest part at the moment is coming to grips not just with the loss of a very special person in their lives but also with the fact that uncertainty still remains as to what caused the event. My hope is that the authorities, who I think are doing a superb job, are able to come to some relatively clear conclusions within a defined period of time in order to give those people the certainty and the comfort of knowing what happened, so that they can get on with their grieving process and the next stage of their lives as they adjust to the loss of that special person. My thoughts are with them today, and I am sure that all New Zealanders would wish them every comfort as they resume their lives with these enormous gaps, which have now been thrust upon them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d006fb2d8b347f695534c9985a6eaf2\u0022\u003EBarack Obama\u2014Election as President of the United States\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022 data-id=\u0022127c8f1c4db14828b7a293d21a08700b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022127c8f1c4db14828b7a293d21a08700b\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House convey its sincere congratulations and warmest regards to President-Elect Barack Obama on his historic election win as the next President of the United States, and to Vice-President - Elect Joe Biden on his election win, and in doing so expresses its desire to work with the Obama administration to continue building on New Zealand\u2019s already strong relationship with the United States. The election last month of a new President of the United States came at a very challenging time for us all. The world faces an economic crisis and growing threats to the security and well-being of people in many nations. President-Elect Obama and his running-mate campaigned on a message of hope and change. This message was embraced by the American people, who elected Mr Obama as their first African-American President.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243bc3aeb1f824576ab1282ef0b9530f2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What does Bill think?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d2fa151d214ede863791a00ac617af\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member will get over it. We congratulate him, wish him well, and look forward to working with his administration. No President has come into office, arguably, with greater challenges and greater expectations than President-Elect Barack Obama does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003ENew Zealand and the United States are indeed very, very good friends. We have a strong relationship and share many common values. The new Government will seek to build on this relationship in order to further our mutual interests and to promote peace and prosperity throughout the Pacific. In particular, we believe that strengthening trade between our two nations and within the region will have significant benefits for all of our people, and will help our economies recover from the current crisis. With this in mind, we have welcomed the desire of the US to join the P4 free-trade agreement between New Zealand and other Pacific nations, which has extended to become the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership. We encourage the new President and his administration to give added momentum to this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5ee3ed6c43c437fa07b0e50c3bab54e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5ee3ed6c43c437fa07b0e50c3bab54e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E The New Zealand Labour Party also congratulates Barack Obama on his election as the President of the United States, and looks forward to the new era in United States\u2019 politics that his election will open up. I also acknowledge the unsuccessful candidate, Senator John McCain. John McCain is a person who I believe is a very decent person, a person of real integrity, and a person who has been a good friend of New Zealand, and he who will continue to be, as a member of the United States Senate. We should acknowledge his contribution to New Zealand - American relations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWhat happens in the United States, being the world\u2019s pre-eminent economic and military power, is clearly very important to us, and for New Zealand. A positive relationship with that country is also very critical. There have been some clear areas of disagreement between New Zealand and the Bush administration. Notwithstanding that, the relationship between the two countries has actually moved in a very positive direction over recent years. To quote our ambassador from the United States, Bill McCormick, the relationship is probably the best it has ever been. We have certainly sought to maximise our cooperation in areas of mutual agreement. John Key mentioned the P4 agreement, the trade agreement that I was involved with helping to negotiate. That will be very important to New Zealand, and we have worked closely together where we have perceived common areas of genuine security threat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWhat the Obama administration does in coming months to counter the economic downturn is clearly vital to us, and we need to maintain a close relationship and discussion with that country. But I also believe that we will find new areas of cooperation. Barack Obama, of course, was much closer to the Labour Government in terms of Iraq than the current US administration was. We will also, I think, more readily be able to cooperate in areas of disarmament, human rights, and climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI note Barack Obama\u2019s very strong speech promoting a \u201Ccap and trade\u201D system for carbon emissions, which I guess is roughly similar to New Zealand\u2019s emissions trading scheme. About climate change Barack Obama said, and I quote: \u201CDelay is no longer an option. Denial is no longer an acceptable response.\u201D What a pity it is that when we have this new administration with its progressive view on climate change, here in New Zealand the National-ACT agreement is offering, in fact, nothing other than delay and denial. I hope Mr Key saw the little note on the front page of the Dominion Post: \u201CJohn\u2014Obama called looking for allies on climate change. Realised he\u2019d got the wrong number! \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e54fe14c04a94f5e991c8a8217b83d67\u0022 data-id=\u002263d7e4f5dd544ddb8ba740dae4d91522\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e54fe14c04a94f5e991c8a8217b83d67\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263d7e4f5dd544ddb8ba740dae4d91522\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will join with the other parties in this House in offering its congratulations to the new Obama administration. We think that this Obama presidency will open up a new and better chapter for American and world politics, and we are all looking forward to change we can believe in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e54fe14c04a94f5e991c8a8217b83d67\u0022\u003EHopefully, the Obama presidency will provide a broader basis for cooperation with New Zealand on vital global issues like climate change, as Phil Goff has just mentioned, where Obama has promised a \u201Ccap and trade\u201D system; on human rights, where he said he will be closing down the Guantanamo Bay hellhole; and in the area of conflict resolution, where Mr Obama is putting talking to countries ahead of dropping bombs on them. Hopefully, in such foreign policy the new administration will go further and accept and embrace New Zealand\u2019s nuclear-free policies, which are a beacon to the world and should not be seen as a restriction on good relations with anyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e54fe14c04a94f5e991c8a8217b83d67\u0022\u003EExactly how far this progressive change under the new administration will go is yet to be determined, because it is a reality that there are also strong conservative forces within the American body politic, and the Green Party does not necessarily agree with the comments of Mr Key and Mr Goff that the response to the global downturn means just opening up channels for global trade and investment. Even more, I think the crisis from the Green point of view is a crisis of under-regulation, not over-regulation. But that said, there is a challenge for our new Government not to get left behind by the Obama administration in making changes for the better. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcf136832c034926b35c815d7e74a8f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcf136832c034926b35c815d7e74a8f9\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to also congratulate Barack Obama on his election as the 44th President of the United States of America. I think that whatever members\u2019 political views are, they could not help but be excited and impressed by that election result in the United States of America. I also pass on our respects to Senator John McCain, who ran a fantastic campaign. Also, I share the hope\u2014I think, of all members of this Parliament\u2014that we have success in the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement and that President Obama does actually keep to a commitment to free trade all around the world, particularly with the pressures that are upon Governments and economies now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EI hope that the new President of the United States will follow the approach, given his campaign of \u201CChange we can believe in\u201D, that we have seen from Prime Minister John Key here in New Zealand, which is very different from what we are used to here. It is one that accepts that people can have differing points of view, that a person is not necessarily always right, and that it is as well to have regard to differing points of view and to hear them. That is what Prime Minister John Key has done with the ACT Party and on the emissions trading scheme, in contrast to what we have seen from the previous Government, under which anyone who had a different point of view from its view was to be shut down, abused, and not heard from. I am proud to be part of a Government that is prepared to hear the arguments, is prepared to hear from the scientists, and does not say that politicians decide everything, but actually has a debate on the issues. I hope the new President of the United States of America will likewise be open-minded, because what we saw here in New Zealand for 9 years had a very chilling effect on the proper debate that should occur about policy. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4e0b5651a084355a2f4aa4618890fc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4e0b5651a084355a2f4aa4618890fc8\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. When one enters the Barack Obama website, there is a simple statement that says it all. I quote Barack Obama\u2019s words: \u201CI\u2019m asking you to believe not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington. I\u2019m asking you to believe in yours.\u201D It is a profound affirmation of faith: faith in a future that saw millions of Americans stand up to proclaim \u201CYes I can\u201D. It is an action of celebration and pride, which has had its ripple effects right throughout the world, including here in Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EThe motion describes the Obama election win as historic, and it is historic on many levels. Obama will, of course, become the first African-American President of the United States\u2014a fact recognised by the Kenyan President Mwai Kibaki, who immediately declared a national holiday to acknowledge his Kenyan whakapapa. Indeed, the African-American President-Elect inspires the whole world to celebrate as we collectively reflect on the shame of a history of slavery, segregation, racism, and discrimination\u2014a history we must never forget. Obama has broken through the highest ceiling in the land. What greater statement is that? But he is also the first person of colour to govern a country with a white majority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EFor indigenous peoples across the world, the election of Barack Obama has heralded a new dawn of hope that we can find our own solutions. The man named by the Crow Nation as Barack Black Eagle has told American Indians: \u201CYou will be on my mind every day I am in the White House\u201D. But his commitment goes further, and, again, I quote: \u201CMy Indian policy starts with honoring the unique government to government relationship between tribes and the federal government and ensuring that our treaty obligations are met and ensuring that Native Americans have a voice in the White House. Indian nations have never asked much of the United States, only for what was promised by the treaty obligations made by their forebears. So let me be clear: I believe that treaty commitments are paramount law, I\u2019ll fulfil those commitments as president of the United States.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EI wanted to honour the new President\u2019s commitment to the American Indians as just one of the many attributes that are based on the ideal of creating a better future; transforming the political culture so that it is responsive to the people and not what he describes as the corporate fat cats. Variously described as this generation\u2019s political rock star, there is no denying that Barack Obama is a transformational figure. And although his campaign inspired people like Oprah Winfrey, Bruce Springsteen, and even Colin Powell to publicly endorse him, his greatest wealth, quite literally, lay in the millions of Americans who opened their hearts to come together to heal the divides that have hurt their nation; opened their minds to the possibility of change; and opened their wallets to invest in his campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is proud to stand with the House and convey our congratulations and our best wishes for the Obama administration, and we can do no better than end with the vision articulated in the election night address of the man himself: \u201CThe true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals: democracy, liberty, opportunity and unyielding hope.\u201D Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022 data-id=\u0022304ff78eda0440dd8ce24f605b2a24a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022304ff78eda0440dd8ce24f605b2a24a5\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I want to join with others who have spoken in this debate in congratulating the United States President-Elect Barack Obama on his historic achievement, and in wishing him well as he embarks upon his tenure of office from next January. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EAlthough it does not behove any one of us in this House to lecture the new President and his administration about what their priorities ought to be, lest the burden of expectation that New Zealand places upon them becomes just that much too great to bear, it is nevertheless important to note that this new administration takes office at a time of unprecedented international instability, and, I suspect, at a time when America\u2019s reputation in the world has probably not been as controversial as it is at present. President-Elect Obama faces the challenge not only of healing the United States internally\u2014the political geography of that country is extremely divided\u2014but also of restoring the United States\u2019 reputation in the world and showing that the country, which for long times has prided itself on being the world\u2019s greatest democracy, is, in fact, able to live up to that challenge. I think it is significant that the President-Elect has drawn from his mentor Abraham Lincoln. There is a delicious irony in that, but in terms of Lincoln\u2019s commitment to democracy, to freedom, and to emancipation, the same words and virtues that we see represented in President-Elect Obama give us encouragement about the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EAlthough New Zealand will be a side player at the very best, it is important that we enjoy a good and strong relationship with the new United States administration, that we embrace the values that the President-Elect will advance, that we work constructively on the relationship with the United States\u2014politically, economically, and socially\u2014and that we remember he has based his campaign upon the fact that the greatest strength each of us has is the commitment of our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI join with others in congratulating President-Elect Obama, Vice President - Elect Biden, Michelle Obama, and the two girls on the challenges that lie ahead. I wish them every success in their roles, and I look forward to the day when the President comes to New Zealand to enjoy the hospitality that I know this country would love to shower upon him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022de9724cd38854e64b8a2d91c0c8bfb4d\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Sports Teams\u2014Successes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022 data-id=\u00222bf4173a6e1b4ed2bb1756659f6d8155\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bf4173a6e1b4ed2bb1756659f6d8155\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a brief non-debatable, non-controversial motion noting two sporting successes by New Zealand teams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f035e79d288426aa5714cfbfdb3090e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ab21d419fc2405ab8b2d67cfc4dfadb\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House congratulates the Kiwi rugby league team on the outstanding achievement of winning the Rugby League World Cup tournament in Australia, and the All Blacks on successfully completing the Grand Slam of test victories over Scotland, England, Wales, and Ireland on their recent tour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e380eb5d703646d1a5a1678c158d7e59\u0022\u003EAddress in Reply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002233896214574744d1bf38a38a82b98dcf\u0022\u003EAddress in Reply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7657de5da61438da14891c9c56aaa7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7657de5da61438da14891c9c56aaa7c\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That a respectful Address be presented to His Excellency the Governor-General in reply to His Excellency\u2019s speech. I offer my congratulations to you first, Mr Speaker, on your election to the prestigious role of Speaker of this Parliament. Your years of service in Parliament have been rewarded well. I state how proud I am of becoming a foot soldier in a strong caucus team led so capably, so practically, and so effectively by our new Prime Minister, the Hon John Key. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u0027E mua ia ona o\u0060u taia, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Ele tu tafa\u2019itoa, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Ei paia o le as\u2019o, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Ema o\u2019u faatulou atu , \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Ei le\u00A0mamalu o le saofaiga a le Palemene, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Ele paia faa-tafafa o le Maota Fono, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Ema lau tapuaiga Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EUa mata-lupe le se-uga o le as\u2019o, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Eaua o lea ua fesila-fai, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Esega ula o le faamoemoe, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Ei le alofa o le Atua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003ETulou ia, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Etulou, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003Etulouna lava. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EIn Samoan I greeted everyone by requesting your indulgence, Mr Speaker, so that I can acknowledge the sacredness of today. I asked for everyone\u2019s grace so that I can acknowledge this sitting of Parliament and the sacredness of the four corners of this parliamentary Chamber, and pay tribute to those in attendance, as well as acknowledge the prayers and thoughts of all New Zealanders. I say that this day is rich, plentiful, and climactic. The day is also important because of the sega ula or beautiful birds\u2014a reference to important or ceremonial people or groups\u2014are now meeting under the banner of God\u2019s love. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, e ng\u0101 rangatira, e ng\u0101 waka, e ng\u0101 karanga maha, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou i runga i te painga o t\u014D t\u0101tou Matua Nui i te Rangi. Ahakoa he tangata H\u0101moa k\u0113 ahau, he mihi tonu atu ki a koutou, ar\u0101, te R\u014Dp\u016B M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E[So greetings to you leaders, canoes, and the many callings. Greetings under the goodness of our Great Father in Heaven. Even though I am a Samoan person I acknowledge you, the M\u0101ori Party, with great respect. Greetings.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EI stand before members today as the member of Parliament for Maungakiekie. I am humbled by an enormous debt of gratitude to the people of my community who have put their faith and trust in me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EI stand before members today because of the love, support, and encouragement of my family. To my father, Lotu; my mother, Usuga; siblings, Kenneth, Oleta, and Brigitta; and my wider family, I say fa\u2019afetai and thank you. To my wife, Jules, for allowing my dream to become our dream, I say fakaue lahi and thank you. Finally, to our late daughter, Samaria, although you are not here with us today, I know that you hear my voice, and I say that I miss you and I love you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EI stand before members today because of the hard work of my campaign team under the disciplined leadership of Mark Thomas, the shrewd counsel of Simon Lusk, and the industry of Josh Beddell, and with the support of many, many supporters, many of whom are here today to be with us. Finally, to the National Party president Judy Kirk, regional manager Alastair Bell, and their respective teams, I say thank you for putting your confidence and trust in me as a candidate in this year\u2019s general election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EThe Maungakiekie electorate forms the geographic heart of Auckland. Literally, it means the hill of the kiekie vine. Of course, that is the M\u0101ori name for One Tree Hill, which is a symbol of great importance for both M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101. In pre-colonial times Maungakiekie was one of the most important of M\u0101ori pas. Its strategic placement within the isthmus of T\u0101maki-makau-rau afforded the people the rich variety of seafood from two harbours. For European New Zealanders, One Tree Hill and the surrounding Cornwall Park is an important legacy left by Sir John Logan Campbell. The adjoining parklands provide about 540 acres of some of the most idyllic urban public green space in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EIn Maungakiekie 149 different ethnic groups are represented. Over one-third of our residents were born overseas and a third speak foreign languages, 70 percent have a religious faith, and our schools range from decile 1 to decile 9. The Maungakiekie electorate is at the heart of Auckland\u2019s diversity, with the iconic Maungakiekie as its jewel. It spans the Auckland isthmus from the Manukau Harbour in the west to the T\u0101maki River in the east. In Auckland City, outside the central business district, the largest number of people employed in any single area is within Maungakiekie. Maungakiekie is middle New Zealand. Its roots are further reflected in the sports we play and host. We provide a home to Oceania Football, the New Zealand Warriors, and, of course, the world-champion New Zealand rugby league team.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EMaungakiekie represents the emerging, bustling change of metropolitan Auckland, and it is a pointer to the diverse influences that are sweeping across our country. Yet despite its very individualistic diversities, many of the social and economic issues facing our people are shared by our fellow countrywomen and men across this nation. Everyone is concerned about our economic future and prosperity. All people desire first-class educational services, safe and secure neighbourhoods, and bountiful employment opportunities. Some of these goals are under pressure at this time of recession; others have still not been achieved, despite our coming through one of the longest sustained periods of growth in a generation. This country needs the changes that National campaigned on, and of course part of these changes will be appropriately diverse policy responses to take account of our more diverse peoples. I believe that the minority-led, increasingly diverse National Party and Government, together with our range of support partners, are very well placed to effect these changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EMy personal story is borne of the fabric of the community I represent. Born in Samoa, I migrated to New Zealand when I was a child and I lived in M\u0101ngere with my family. We lived in a three-bedroom home with a double garage, where our custom to care for our extended family sometimes meant that we had up to 16 people living in our home at any one time. My father, in particular, made huge sacrifices. The stories he told of shifting from the warm climes of Apia to the snow and sleet of Bluff move me. The stories he told of having to walk from Ponsonby to Parnell to save the bus fare in order to have some lunch humble me. My parents suffered and endured a great deal just so that we children could live better lives. We were not a wealthy family but we were rich in spirit, resourceful, and determined to succeed in this country. My family continues to be the cornerstone of my life. My parents instilled in us strong family values, Christian principles, and a diligent work ethic. The values are of honouring our elders, respecting others\u2019 opinions, and treating others as we ourselves would like to be treated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EI was taught at a young age that education was a key to a successful future, not only for me but also for my wider family. I am grateful to my parents, who sacrificed and saved in order for my sibling and me to attend reputable State schools and universities. For me, education was the key to unlocking so many of the opportunities that I have enjoyed in life. Education allowed me to travel, meet new people, and experience different cultures. Those cultures also taught me that the best teachers in the world can\u2014and should\u2014be our parents. Our parents should encourage aspiration, and teach core values and an honourable way of life. I was taught that success is ultimately defined by doing our best in the area of our choice. If we set out to be the best that we can be in any role, and apply ourselves diligently and honestly, then success will be the fruits of that labour. A solid education gave me employment opportunities in finance, law and commerce, and a chance to enjoy these varied experiences. Education blessed me with the many lifestyle choices that I have today. I was taught that my success will not be based on my bank balances, assets or looks; success will be based on the breadth and the depth of relationships, and the ability to positively impact on and love others. I am proud and humbled to live in a country that has offered me so many opportunities; I want to apply all my effort so that future generations of New Zealanders get those same opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EThroughout my life I have taken the notion of aspiration into my work endeavours, within both the private and public sectors. As an Auckland City councillor I have seen how local government works, and how it strives to improve the lives of its citizens. In critical times like these, it is crucial that the Government proceeds with caution. This implies the notion that fiscal prudence and accountability will be prioritised, and that bureaucracies are to be challenged to produce the desired outcomes for our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EI am also acutely aware of the importance of the private sector in building the future of this country. Of the jobs in my electorate, 70 percent are provided by the private sector. Its health is their lifeline. The aspirations of business people and entrepreneurs are critical to the success of our economy and our country. Creating employment opportunities and improving productivity can arise only from having an educated workforce, with an attitude of being the best. This attitude is not only that we can be the best in our neighbourhoods, our cities, our region, or our country, but also that we can, and will, be the best in the world. Fundamental to the health of the private sector in these difficult times are lower taxes, less bureaucratic red tape, and legislation that encourages fruitful investment into our productive assets and industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EAspiration has also driven my desire to understand the views and opinions of my community. My involvement in various community organisations stems from a passion to serve the interests of both individuals and groups within our communities. As the Government, we must stay in touch with all New Zealanders who aspire to get ahead, and encourage those whose motivation falters. Building communities must not be solely left to the Government, though; the voluntary sector plays a huge role in addressing our communities\u2019 issues. I am proud to be involved in the social services organisation Great Potentials, and the impact that its parenting and mentoring programmes have on the lives of parents and their children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EThe private or philanthropic sectors can also contribute to the advancement of communities. I am proud to be involved in one such organisation, the I Have A Dream Charitable Trust. This trust motivates and empowers children from low-income communities to reach their education and career goals. I believe that solutions to many of our problems lie within the communities that combine to make up our society. This Government will promote front-line services over back-office administration. Bigger Governments do not produce better solutions. It is bold leadership that usually produces a brighter future. Governments may build taller buildings, stronger bridges, and safer roads, but ultimately the state of a nation\u2019s wellbeing is based on the nature and the depth of relationships between individuals and groups. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EFinally, I would like to mention my personal belief in the notion of public service. We have a Samoan proverb that says \u201CO le ala i le pule o le tautua.\u201D Loosely translated, the proverb means \u201CThe path to leadership is through service.\u201D To serve means to listen, respect, engage, and sometimes even disagree. It is a verb, and therefore one should always act. I look forward to implementing change in Maungakiekie, and within this Parliament, through service to its people and its institutions. Yesterday I pledged my loyalty through God to Queen and country. Today I affirm my loyalty to the leadership of this Government. To the best of my abilities, I will also serve my fellow Parliamentarians in select committees, meetings, and other fora within which we will congregate. I am here to serve the people of Maungakiekie and, through them, the people of New Zealand. It is their best interests that I will have at the top of my mind when I serve in my role as a member of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EI leave you, Mr Speaker, as I began. Although I arrived here as a migrant 35 years ago from Samoa, carrying with me rich pride in my culture, my language and my values, today I stand here as a New Zealander to carry this pride, and all I have learned since, to serve the needs of all New Zealanders. I salute you all. I am honoured to serve in this, the forty-ninth Parliament of New Zealand. I thank you for the opportunity to deliver this, my maiden speech. May God bless you, this Parliament and the people of Aotearoa New Zealand. Soifoa, and good day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EPese, \u201CFaafetai i le Atua\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022 data-id=\u00225456368e9249444f93afb0b489b9cd71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225456368e9249444f93afb0b489b9cd71\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I second the motion that a respectful Address be presented to His Excellency the Governor-General in his reply to His Excellency\u2019s speech. I begin my maiden speech by congratulating you, Mr Speaker, on your election to the Chair. I wish you, your deputy, and the Assistant Speakers my very best. From a journalist\u2019s point of view of how this House has operated in the past, your job is one that requires the patience of a saint. If the little time I have spent speaking with you in the past few weeks is any indication, I have no doubt we will benefit greatly from your vast experience in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EI take this opportunity to acknowledge the Hon Anand Satyanand, our Governor-General. It is an honour to be giving my maiden speech under his watch. I pay tribute to our Prime Minister, the Hon John Key, for delivering such a fabulous election result for the National Party and New Zealand. He is indeed the fresh leadership the country has demanded, and I am privileged to be a part of the future he envisions. I acknowledge the members of the National caucus and other parliamentary colleagues; it is indeed my great honour to be here with them all and to call them my colleagues. I particularly acknowledge our very first Asian member, and now the first Cabinet Minister of Asian origin, the Hon Pansy Wong, who has encouraged and supported me. She has my gratitude.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EI pay tribute to our National Party President, Judy Kirk, who has shown me that a powerful woman need not lack grace or style. I say thank you for her guidance and love. I also thank the National Party northern region\u2019s Alistair Bell, Alan Towers, Kate Graham, and Peter Kiely, who were there to help me with a friendly ear and ready advice whenever I needed it. I also acknowledge the former Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Helen Clark, who has been a great supporter of the television programme Asia Down Under and the Korean Cinerama Trust over the years\u2014thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EIt is with great honour that I deliver my maiden speech, not only as the first MP of Korean descent in New Zealand but also as the first woman of Korean descent to become an MP outside of Korea. It is indeed humbling. It is truly a sign that the world has come of age in a global sense. It is also a step towards realising our Prime Minister\u2019s, and the National Party\u2019s, vision to make our Parliament more diverse, and truly representative of the population that now makes up our country. I am also very pleased to be giving my maiden speech in this House at a time when New Zealand has chosen to say no to a particular party whose policy gained support from people who dislike me simply because of my ethnic heritage. Call it irony or just a fortunate turn of events, but with the exit of that particular party comes the first Minister of Asian origin in Cabinet! New Zealand has come of age, it seems, by saying we have no room at this particular inn for racists. It is the dawning of a new era, and it is my privilege to be a part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EKa mihi atu ki te tangata whenua, otir\u0101, ki ng\u0101 waka huhua katoa i whiti mai i Te Moana-nui-a-Kiwa, mai i Hawaiki nui ki Aotearoa. N\u0101 r\u0101tou te ara i whakatakoto, otir\u0101, n\u0101 r\u0101tou te \u014Dhaki i ea ai te k\u014Drero, he iwi kotahi t\u0101tou. P\u0113r\u0101 i a r\u0101tou, i haere mai au ki konei m\u0101 runga i t\u0113tahi waka i te tau waru tekau m\u0101 waru. Engari, ko ng\u0101 hoe o t\u014Dku waka he parirau k\u0113, \u0101, i tere ake te haere ki t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 waka o ng\u0101 t\u016Bpuna. Ka awhi au i a Aotearoa, ka awhi mai a Aotearoa i au, i t\u0113nei r\u0101 ko au t\u0113nei kua pu\u0101wai. I t\u0113nei r\u0101, ka minamina au ki te k\u012B n\u014Dku an\u014D hoki t\u0113nei whenua, n\u014Dku hoki t\u0113nei t\u016Brangawaewae. N\u014D reira, kua tae mai te w\u0101 hei whakahoki ki te motu i t\u0101na i h\u014Dmai ai ki a au.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E[I pay homage to the tangata whenua, and indeed to all the canoes that crossed the Pacific Ocean from Hawaiki to New Zealand. They paved the way, and they initiated a unity that has made us who we are today. We are one people. Like them, I too arrived on a waka, in 1988. The only difference was that my oars were replaced with wings, and it travelled much faster than that of the ancestors. But as I embraced New Zealand, it embraced me back, and nurtured me into what I have become. Today I can honestly identify myself as being a New Zealander, and Aotearoa as my home. Therefore, the opportunity to give back to New Zealand what it has given to me has come to hand.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is indeed a land of many people of diverse cultures and heritage, and I am proud to be representing the third-largest Asian population in New Zealand\u2014the Koreans. It was reported before the election that only 2 percent of the 40,000 Korean population had voted in previous elections. If the support I received during the campaign is any indication, I would say that 100 percent of Korean Kiwis\u2014also known as \u201CKowis\u201D\u2014voted on 8 November. I would like to thank them, regardless of which party they voted for, because voting is the ultimate realisation that we live in a democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EKorean settlement in New Zealand has not been for long, and often I am confronted by people\u2019s misconception of Korea formed out of ignorance, and by television programmes like MASH. When people have preconceived ideas about what others are like, settlement into New Zealand can be paved with tears. I remember a Korean migrant who had a visit from the police when the stench from dried cuttlefish\u2014a Korean delicacy\u2014raised the curiosity of her neighbours, who jumped to the conclusion that she must have killed her P\u0101keh\u0101 husband to have produced such a foul stench. But now when I look around New Zealand\u2014our cities\u2014I am pleased to see restaurants offering food from different cultures. And it is not just we black-haired people who frequent these premises; I have even been told our Prime Minister likes kimchi, which is literally fermented bok choy full of chilli and garlic, and according to one of my European friends smells like sewage. That is rather strange to me as it smells comforting to me. I am grateful New Zealand\u2019s taste buds and sense of smell are evolving. The variety we have now makes us more interesting than in the era of big boil-ups. Thankfully it is not only our taste buds that have evolved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EWhen my parents first left Korea more than 30 years ago to provide my brother John and me a brighter future, it took a lot of courage\u2014the pioneering spirit New Zealanders value. Courage was what ultimately brought them to Aotearoa. Through failed businesses and lost opportunities, my parents worked harder than anyone I know to provide a good life for my brother and me. Never once did they complain about not getting a handout, nor did they ask for one from the Government or anyone else. They took personal responsibility for our family. It is something we learned from our childhood, and are in turn instilling in our own children to value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EI still remember my early days in Auckland. My day at the Sunday News as a young reporter would finish around 5 p.m. and, while others went to the pub, I would head for my parents\u2019 dairy in Grafton. We would all work as a family until the shop closed at 11 p.m. and then have supper together and drive home. A strong family bond was always fostered and maintained through my mother\u2019s strong leadership. My story is not unique; it is the story of thousands of Asian migrants who have come before me and who will also come in the future, and who now make up about 10 percent of New Zealand\u2019s population. Family is also the foundation on which New Zealand was built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EAs a mother raising a 10-year-old boy, I have become frightened for all children growing up in New Zealand in recent times. I wish there were more parents like mine who would go the extra distance. But New Zealand has had a shameful record when it comes to our children, and there have been some pitiful examples of parents and caregivers. I was overjoyed to hear of the convictions of W\u012Bremu and Michael Curtis at the Rotorua High Court recently, for the murder of 3-year-old Nia Glassie, and of the conviction of Nia\u2019s mother, Lisa Kuka. No child should have gone through what Nia did, and no child should ever do so in the future. More shocking to me than the abuse and the murder of Nia was the fact that the neighbours, friends, and family who knew what was going on turned a blind eye to the horrific abuse this innocent child suffered at the hands of these monsters. It is indeed a sad indictment on our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EIt is also very pleasing to read about the arrest made for the killing of octogenarian Madam Yang, who died in her home earlier this year. What she must have gone through\u2014the fear, the violence, and the eventual death\u2014I can only imagine. As a victim of a home invasion myself, who was confronted by two men wearing balaclavas, with a gun and a hammer, I do not feel safe in my own home, let alone in the streets. More than 10,000 people took to the streets to march against violence in South Auckland earlier this year. It is my hope that their voices are heard and repaid with a tougher stance against criminals in this country. It is not right that Madam Yang had to die in her own home, where she should have had her safety guaranteed. It is not right that little Nia Glassie died at the hands of people who should have protected and cared for her. It is our duty as a nation to provide safety in our homes and in our communities. It is a priority that we must deliver as lawmakers, in my view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EOur children are our future but instead of teaching them to become achievers, we are teaching them that it is OK to become losers. Instead of teaching them the values of hard work and the satisfaction that comes with it, we are teaching them not to bother because the Government is always there with an open purse, promoting a Government-funded dependence. Instead of reporting unspeakable crimes like that inflicted upon Nia Glassie, people are cowering behind closed curtains for fear they will be accused of meddling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EInstead of celebrating our New Zealand identity, our children are growing up lost between American, British, and Australian television programmes, which dominate our airwaves because we are too frightened to put a stake in the ground to say \u201CThis is who we are.\u201D As a child, when I needed to find some information I turned to the Encyclopaedia Britannica; now children turn to Google. We must use technology to foster the New Zealand identity our children so lack and need. We must use television, radio, and the Internet to empower them, and to make them understand who they are and where they stand in the world, in order to make them stand proud to be Kiwis, regardless of what their ethnic heritage may be. There must be a mandate to provide and support local programming to foster these identity issues, because without it our children will never be empowered. Take a look at South Auckland\u2014it seems absurd to me that people who should feel proud of their Pasifika and M\u0101ori cultures feel proud to display the ghetto cultures of America. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is a young country compared with the country I was born in. Korea has a 5,000-year-old history, but that does not mean that New Zealanders cannot feel proud of their heritage. I may not have been born here, I may not even have been brought up here, but I made a commitment to become a New Zealander and I am a proud carrier of a New Zealand passport. This is a privilege, and I am proud to call myself a Kiwi. But not all New Zealanders would accept that I am a Kiwi; because of my skin colour, I will forever be a foreigner. This must change. We are far too small a nation to be divisive. We must work together to decide who we are as a nation, and work together to achieve where we want to be in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EWe have had some brilliant moments in history, when we have led the world. New Zealand was the first country to give women the vote. It was a New Zealander, Ernest Rutherford, who split the atom, and there was the late Sir Edmund Hillary. We have also produced bands and actors over the years, some of whom Australians insist are theirs. There are many others\u2014far too many to name them all\u2014who are placing New Zealand on the map. We should not only applaud their successes; we should celebrate them, and build a nation these global Kiwis would feel proud to come home to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EMany people have asked me why I put my name forward to be selected by the National Party. As a journalist over 20 years, it was not possible for me to show my true colours. Although close friends and family have known for a long time, I decided to \u201Ccome out\u201D, so to speak, because I felt the need to have a say in the shaping of the future of New Zealand. With my 20-year career in journalism and business, I feel I come equipped with just a little life experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003ETo close, I would like to thank some very special people in my life: my mother, Min-ja\u2014thank you. Thank you for always\u2014I always do this when I talk about her\u2014encouraging me that there is nothing I cannot do; my dad, Peter, for his hard work to give John and me the very best opportunity in life; and my son, Ethan. Your campaign impressed me, boy; I did not ask you to do that. I love the \u201CI\u2019m a Key person!\u201D T-shirt that you took to school every day. I want to work hard so that I can become a good role model for you; I hope I make you proud. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\uB274\uC9C8\uB79C\uB4DC \uD55C\uAD6D \uAD50\uBBFC \uC5EC\uB7EC\uBD84 \uADF8\uB9AC\uACE0 \uC804 \uC138\uACC4\uC5D0 \uACC4\uC2DC\uB294 \uB3D9\uD3EC \uC5EC\uB7EC\uBD84 - \uADF8\uB3D9\uC548 \uC800\uC5D0\uAC8C \uBCF4\uB0B4\uC8FC\uC2E0 \uC131\uC6D0 \uAC10\uC0AC\uB4DC\uB9BD\uB2C8\uB2E4.\u00A0 \uADF8\uB3D9\uC548 \uC800\uC5D0\uAC8C \uBCF4\uB0B4\uC8FC\uC2E0 \uACA9\uB824\uB294 \uC800\uC5D0\uAC8C \uD53C\uB294    \uBB3C\uBCF4\uB2E4 \uC9C4\uD558\uB2E4\uB294 \uAC83\uC744 \uC0C8\uC0BC \uB290\uB07C\uAC8C \uD574\uC8FC\uC168\uC2B5\uB2C8\uB2E4.\u00A0 \uC774\uC81C \uCD5C\uCD08\uC758 \uD55C\uAD6D\uACC4 \uB274\uC9C8\uB79C\uB4DC \uAD6D\uD68C\uC758\uC6D0\uC73C\uB85C\uC11C \uC870\uC2EC\uC2A4\uB7FD\uAC8C \uCCAB \uBC1C\uC744 \uB0B4\uB51B\uC73C\uBA74\uC11C, \uC81C\uAC00 5,000\uB144\uC758 \uC5ED\uC0AC\uB97C \uAC00\uC9C4 \uB300\uD55C\uBBFC\uAD6D\uC758 \uB538\uC774\uB77C\uB294 \uC0AC\uC2E4\uACFC \uD55C\uAD6D \uAD50\uBBFC \uACF5\uB3D9\uCCB4\uAC00 \uC81C \uB4A4\uC5D0\uC11C \uC800\uB97C \uC751\uC6D0\uD574 \uC8FC\uC2DC\uACE0 \uACC4\uC2E0\uB2E4\uB294 \uAC83\uC744 \uD56D\uC0C1 \uAE30\uC5B5\uD560 \uAC83\uC785\uB2C8\uB2E4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003ETo the Korean community in New Zealand, and to Koreans all around the globe, thank you for your support and encouragement. Your emails and phone calls of support came simply by virtue of the shared culture and heritage. I am truly humbled. I am grateful that the Korean community is always behind me to support me as I take my baby steps as the very first New Zealand member of Parliament of Korean heritage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003ELast but not least, to my God: I know You are always beside me to guide me. It is a great honour and a privilege to be in this House as a member of Parliament, and I pledge to do my very best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u00224affc31197484db0951712dbcc573153\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224affc31197484db0951712dbcc573153\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the following words be added to the Address: \u201Cand expects, over the next 3 years, to see a closing of the wage gap with Australia; reduced serious crime, including family violence; reduced waiting time for elective surgery, with twenty new dedicated elective surgery theatres; fewer people on working-age benefits; lower greenhouse gas emissions; increased investment in infrastructure, including rail and public transport; the extension of the fibre network to nearly all homes; all sixteen and seventeen year olds in education, training, or employment; no cuts to public services; expanded availability of subsidised medicines; a police to population ratio of 1:500, with all new sworn police officers committed to general duty roles; a doubling of the number of prisoners receiving drug and alcohol treatment; and the settling of half of the remaining historic Treaty of Waitangi settlement claims\u201D. I moved that motion because those were the expectations raised by the National Party when in Opposition. I say to Mr Key that we on this side of the House will be holding him to account to deliver on the promises that formed his mandate for Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThere was a time in this country when successive Governments could get away with making promises in order to be elected, and later disavowing those promises. One of the things about the fifth Labour Government of which I am the most proud is that we honoured the promises on which we were elected. We not only honoured those promises but we, in fact, after each election, over-delivered on promises that were made. We under-promised and over-delivered. The challenge to this new National Government is to do likewise. I say to Mr Key that he will be judged on his ability to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI congratulate the new Government on its election, and I take a moment to congratulate the two new members of Parliament who moved and seconded the Address in Reply. I acknowledge the quality of their contributions, and I wish them well in this House. I tell the new Government that Labour has left National an economy that is well-placed to deal with the impact of the international financial crisis. Members opposite can laugh at that statement, but that is not a statement that was made by this Opposition; that was a statement made last week by Fitch Ratings, the international credit-rating agency. It gave this country a AAA credit rating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThis is what Fitch Ratings told New Zealanders about the record of the outgoing Government: \u201Cthe longstanding record of fiscal prudence, marked by reductions in the general government debt and net public external debt, will leave us well-placed to weather the economic downturn.\u201D That is the legacy that the Labour Government has left for the incoming National Government. Under the fifth Labour Government we did not squander the good years by simply spending the surpluses. I utterly reject the empty political rhetoric that Mr Key put in the Speech from the Throne that talked about missed opportunities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI will tell members about some of the missed opportunities. The Labour Government, under Michael Cullen, reduced Government debt from 35 percent of the GDP down to 17 percent. As Mr English borrows heavily to deal with the downturn, he will be very grateful for the sound fiscal management of Michael Cullen, the former Minister of Finance. The same former Minister of Finance put into the Cullen superannuation fund $14 billion, which the National Party is now so keen to invest. That was what the Labour Government did. It was opposed by the National Party, but National is very grateful for the legacy it has received. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThen we had the lie in the Speech from the Throne that talked about the fact that we did not achieve the same growth rates as other countries. Mr Key, I refer you to the document presented to your Government and your Minister of Finance by Treasury\u2014the briefing document for the incoming Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231905709f4ae414c9ade7f6816b1b90c\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member is an experienced member and knows he cannot address the Chair in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e76128f10ded444e826fa43de97f7d4e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Goff, I just mention that you did use language that is not very helpful a few moments ago, but I let it pass. I just warn you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4826c773f0b48faa9a511441ab544d4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Key will see from reading the document presented by Treasury\u2014unless, as Judith Collins says about the police, Treasury is a Labour-loaded organisation; and that would take some imagination\u2014that, in terms of growth rates, over the period of time measured, New Zealand was in fact ahead of Australia, ahead of the United States, ahead of Japan, and ahead of the average of the OECD countries. The legacy we have left to the National Government\u2014but, more important, to our country\u2014is a country well placed to deal with the international economic difficulties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWe have left other legacies that may be under threat from this new Government. One is KiwiSaver. It is the single most effective saving programme in New Zealand\u2019s history, with 827,000 New Zealanders having signed up to it. It is a programme that has been more successful than any action by any Government over 30 years in ensuring that New Zealand acquires a savings record, which enables and motivates New Zealanders to save, and ensures that we have the money to invest in the future of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe incoming National Government talks about investment in infrastructure. I remind that Government that we increased the investment in infrastructure by 190 percent\u2014190 percent in the rail networks, the electricity generation, and the roads, and that can be seen all over New Zealand. What is more, we promoted the creation of a 21st century economy with lower corporate tax rates. [Interruption] I say to Mr English that we were the only Government in 30 years to lower corporate tax rates, and to create tax incentives for research and development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EOne of the threats we see from this incoming Government is the threat to demolish the 15 percent tax credit for research and development. At a time when we want to create an economy that is innovative, creative, and can compete in the world, research and development is essential. Yet the incoming National Government is promising to slash the basis on which we can achieve that innovative and creative economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we are all proud of on this side of the House is the fact that Working for Families\u2014the programme that Mr Key said was communism by stealth\u2014has lifted out of poverty tens of thousands of New Zealanders and children. What I expect from the incoming National Government is all the rhetoric in McGehan Close, all the rhetoric in the Speech from the Throne about the underclass to be translated into action that does even a fraction of what the outgoing Labour Government did, which was to lift our children out of poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI noticed that Melissa Lee, in her speech, talked about the appalling rate of child abuse in this country. It is appalling, but to stop that abuse from happening we will have to do a lot more than simply double the prison sentences for abusers. One way we can stop abuse from happening is to create an environment in which each and every child in our country can grow up in a family that has the economic means and the social skills to provide that child with a stable, secure, caring, and loving environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Key that among the other missed opportunities must have been, of course, the rescuing of our national airline. Air New Zealand was bankrupted by the private sector board that National put in charge of it. It is now a thriving and viable national carrier for New Zealand. I could mention, too, Kiwibank. The bank that was opposed by every National member is now providing lower mortgage interest rates, and performing better than its Australian-based competitors. We gave New Zealanders the choice to go to that bank instead of a foreign multinational. I could add, of course, bringing back KiwiRail to ensure a sound and properly integrated national transport system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EOne thing that the National Party did give credit for\u2014although not explicitly to the outgoing Labour Government\u2014was, this year, the achieving of the basis of market access to our key international markets: the signing and bringing into effect of a free-trade agreement with China, the fastest-growing market in the world; the conclusion of a free-trade agreement with the ASEAN countries, a $4.6 billion market for New Zealand; and, just a couple of months ago, the initiation of negotiations for a free-trade agreement involving the United States and New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI say that there were no missed opportunities. We are very proud of what the Labour Government, under Helen Clark\u2019s leadership, created for this country. The record is clear, and no amount of obfuscation by National in the Speech from the Throne will deny that record\u2014independently commented on by Treasury and by credit-rating agencies\u2014as leaving New Zealand in a strong position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dba54c15bad418fab3f3528f444e064\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about the Electoral Finance Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221404da6280d747d59af00f8d33cb2771\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Labour left a positive legacy for the incoming Government and one, I say to Dr Smith, that the National Government should not squander. Labour\u2019s commitment in Opposition is absolute in terms of working to protect and promote the jobs, the living standards, the social services, and the well-being of everyday Kiwis in this country. We will work to preserve the legacy of a fair and inclusive society that provides opportunity for all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWe reject the ideological Treasury prescriptions for New Zealand, which were put out in its recent document. It is totally unacceptable for a Government agency to talk about slashing the tax rates of the wealthy and the most affluent at the same time as it advocates the undermining of minimum wages and working conditions in this country and promotes a \u201Cfire at will\u201D legislative provision, which the National Party has picked up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EMy challenge to Mr Key is this. He talks about opportunity for all, and he talks about the underclass. Will this National Government do better than its predecessor National Government, which over 9 years raised the statutory minimum wage by 73c? It was raised by 73c, I say to Mr Key. I would like an indication from the Prime Minister and his Minister of Finance as to whether the rhetoric is empty and meaningless. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWill the National Government continue to protect those hard-working New Zealanders who go to work every week in our factories, our hospitals, and our offices, or will it again leave those people to languish on a wage that they cannot possibly live on? I think we know the answer. I say congratulations to Mr Key on his Christmas present to New Zealand workers who are under stress and in fear of losing their jobs\u2014he is saying to New Zealanders that in the first 3 months of their employment they can be sacked and that they have no redress to challenge the validity, the legitimacy, the fairness of that sacking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThat policy was not outlined by the National Party as a priority for its first 100 days. It did not even find its way into the Speech from the Throne. It was not mentioned by National Party members as they campaigned on television during the election period. It was hidden away. That longstanding and fundamental right of New Zealanders will now be repealed under urgency by this Government, without notice and without ordinary New Zealanders having the ability to come to a select committee at Parliament to say what they think about the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, you will know that there is scarcely a bill that comes before this Parliament that does not go to a select committee. Every member of this House knows the value of putting legislation before a select committee. It is to find out the flaws in rushed legislation, and by God we have seen flaws from this Government in just 2 weeks\u2014flaws that cost it $700 million over KiwiSaver, and flaws that left New Zealanders stranded in Bangkok. We could go on and on. I believe that this is an ominous sign for the future direction of the National-ACT Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThose National and ACT members opposite when in Opposition talked so much about the right of people to be consulted and the right of New Zealanders to come to their Parliament to make submissions on vital legislation. This National Government is denying the right of every New Zealander to have his or her voice heard on legislation that takes away the rights of every New Zealander. That is what Geoffrey Palmer would once have said was a constitutional outrage. It is a sign of how quickly that Government has become arrogant. It is a sign of the future direction of the National Party, which, when campaigning, was keen to persuade New Zealanders that it was benign and that it would do what Labour was doing, but rather more nicely. The real face and the secret agenda of the National Party, I say to Mr Key, is being revealed in this House over these last 2 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThat legislation will be strongly opposed by the Labour Opposition, and I suspect by other Opposition parties in this House, because it denies New Zealanders the rights that they properly deserve. In this last week we have seen the case of two New Zealand women who were sacked because they were pregnant. They had the chance, under existing law, to put in a claim for unfair dismissal, and they won. They will in future not have that right in the first 90 days of their employment, and that is simply a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe other legislation that will be rammed through Parliament is the tax bill. From what I have seen of the intent of that legislation, it is legislation that will benefit some people in our society. People like Mr Key will get $120 a week out of it\u2014I am sure it is needed. The chief executive of Telecom New Zealand will get $500 a week out of it. But if we do the figures, we will see that a person who is on a low income will be worse off under that legislation. Let me give an example of the sort of person who will be hurt by it. I will mention the person by name. His name is Hada Robadi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EHe works in a factory in Porirua. His income is $35,000 a year. His wife works as a hospital cleaner. She earns $22,000 a year. They have three grandchildren. They have custody of them and responsibility to care for them. Under National\u2019s tax plan, that family will lose $14 a week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb4a52c510aa4f19b132d1e52396f11e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022898d1997ca0d4da18428e0be4084cf25\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: They will be $14 a week worse off. I do not care that John Key gets $120 a week more under this plan. That does not worry me too much. I do care that this family\u2014on a low income, with both people working and contributing to New Zealand through their work and through their care of their grandchildren\u2014will be worse off under this tax bill, which is meant to make New Zealanders better off. That, frankly, is unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EEvery one of the people who have joined KiwiSaver will be worse off, because National wanted to rip $3 billion out of savers\u2019 accounts\u2014which would in the long term and medium term be good for New Zealanders\u2014to meet short-term tax cuts. I cannot believe that the ACT Party\u2019s Sir Roger Douglas would support that programme. Everything I thought that member stood for was about long-term planning, not short-term electoral bribes. Yet we see, in this legislation, a short-term electoral bribe at the expense of the long-term need of this country\u2014that is, for savings. This is absolutely unacceptable. A low-income family with a child, earning $50,000 a year and saving with KiwiSaver will, under the National Party\u2019s tax plan, lose up to $70 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b7b799c84854208b13e3a5f852c67f2\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223330e9e5ee654505b30857b9c30309b3\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: A low-income family on $50,000 will lose $70 across that family. How is that equitable for the everyday New Zealander? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI hear today that National has a new plan, and that is to transfer the cost of the KiwiSaver plan\u2014which the Government is meeting as an incentive for people to save\u2014and load that on to the saver. That means a further $200 million will be ripped out of the savers\u2019 accounts to meet the Government\u2019s costs. That is a case of robbing Peter to pay Bill English, and it is simply not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ELabour members when in Government worked, over the last 9 years, to advance positively the interests of Kiwis and a fairer society. In Opposition we will continue to do so. We will hold this National Government to account, expose its inadequacies, and oppose any secret agenda\u2014which we have already seen emerging over the last couple of days. Mr Key, the Prime Minister, might have had a plan for being elected, but the Speech from the Throne offered no vision, no plan, and no carefully developed mechanism for dealing with the challenges facing New Zealand or for seizing the opportunities ahead. The Speech from the Throne indicates that there is no plan to protect everyday Kiwis from the potential risks they face, caused by the international economic situation. To the contrary, all we have seen out of this Government to date has been backward steps. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ELet me direct this comment to the Minister of Housing, Mr Heatley. When he was the Opposition spokesperson on housing he stood on this side of the House and condemned Housing New Zealand for failing to meet the housing needs of 10,000 New Zealanders on the waiting list. We did point out that that may have been because 13,000 State houses had been sold, and not replaced, under the last National Government. Yet Mr Heatley, in his first pronouncement as Minister of Housing, now says that National is going to stop adding to State housing stock. What about the 10,000 New Zealanders about whom he was crying crocodile tears just a matter of months ago in this very Chamber? At a time when the building industry is at the lowest point in housing construction in 16 years, surely one would take advantage of that unutilised labour and resource to build the houses that children and needy families require. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EMr Key talked about infrastructure, but I tell him to start by making sure that New Zealanders can be housed at a time when, at last, we have the unutilised capacity to house them. If that were not enough, the big announcement made by the National Government on being elected was that it would scrap the $1 billion investment in retrofitting houses so that New Zealanders could have more comfortable, safer, and healthier homes. They have scrapped that programme\u2014in the very week when the Business Council for Sustainable Development said that such a programme would save $4.75 billion in wasted energy over the next decade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281106e3f20b84c6abf92a4c363e38304\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Where is the money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdb9eb28ad3841c3b251ff967c91feb5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith asks where the money is. That is the cost accountancy approach of the National Party\u2014it knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe Business Council for Sustainable Development said that that programme by Labour and the Greens would, each year, have kept out of hospital 18,000 people suffering from respiratory illnesses caused by damp and unhealthy homes. That would have stopped 180,000 absentee workdays each year because people were living in unhealthy homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcdc4876d6a54da7a7f76b28fbc193d9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Where is the money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f1a5a10227f49d4b1f15d43c3ce6a66\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: That would have saved $4.7 billion over a decade, and Dr Smith keeps prattling on about the money. Not only would that measure cut ordinary New Zealanders\u2019 power bills, and keep them healthier, out of hospital, and in work but it would also be an investment in a job-rich scheme. That is the very sort of scheme that is needed at a time when the international economy poses that challenge to New Zealand. There are two examples. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe last example I want to give is about the Government\u2019s suspension of the emissions trading scheme. I remember\u2014and every New Zealander remembers it\u2014Shane Ardern driving his tractor up the steps of Parliament because the National Party was fundamentally opposed to a carbon tax. The National Party went into the election campaign promising New Zealanders that it would have an emissions trading scheme but with a few alterations. Within days, and because of the ACT-National agreement, National has dishonoured its promise about the emissions trading scheme and started talking about the carbon tax, which it told the country it was fundamentally opposed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee might know about the Kyoto Forestry Association. He used to talk about that in very high terms of regard. I tell Mr Brownlee that the Kyoto Forestry Association said the move by the National-ACT Government cost\u2014immediately\u2014$125 million in investment and scores of jobs across provincial New Zealand. The National Government talks the rhetoric about stimulating the economy, and has, so far, done exactly the reverse. Its Housing New Zealand policy, its insulation policy, and its emissions trading scheme policy have cost this country the investment and the jobs that we need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI wind up by saying that the Government has been elected on expectations of what it promised to deliver to New Zealanders. We will hold this Government to account for delivery of those things. Where it acts in a positive way on behalf of ordinary New Zealanders and their well-being, you will see constructive support from the Opposition. Where, on the other hand, you break your promises, you have hidden agendas, and you work contrary to the needs and well-being of New Zealand, you can expect this Opposition to absolutely hold you to account for what you do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022 data-id=\u002274fc06b55bc54527a582e3d9ac847b75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274fc06b55bc54527a582e3d9ac847b75\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, I just remind members that robust debate is healthy and to be expected, but things run off the rails when the words \u201Cyou\u201D and \u201Cyour\u201D are used, and experienced members should know that that brings the Speaker into the debate. I did not want to interrupt the honourable member because when one loses momentum in a speech, it is most unfortunate. But I do remind members that \u201Cyou\u201D and \u201Cyour\u201D are not to be used in debate. and I want to establish that at the outset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022 data-id=\u0022dffe02c6db484c15913d918e88a2d0e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dffe02c6db484c15913d918e88a2d0e5\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Can I be the first in this House to congratulate Mr Goff on his position as Leader of the Opposition, but I say what a lethargic speech that was, I think, as a starting point. If there were any take-away points from it, I guess one of them was that Mr Goff seems to think that the 90-day trial period for small to medium sized enterprises was part of a secret agenda. You see, the only minor problem with that was that not only was that trial period in National\u2019s manifesto but it was in every newspaper in the country. The problem was that it was not in the Melbourne Age, which is where most of the Labour caucus were actually reading the news!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EMr Goff tried to talk about tax cuts. The problem for Mr Goff was that to his right was the previous Minister of Finance, who is a man not known for being a serial tax cutter. No one should have believed that Michael Cullen would ever have delivered on those promised tax cuts\u2014they would not have happened. Michael Cullen was not a man to deliver on his promise of tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EElection 2008 was an election where New Zealanders voted for change. The country elected a new Government, a vibrant Government, an ambitious Government, a young Government, and, I might say, a very determined Government. But Labour also had change. Phil Goff replaced Helen Clark. It was a case of out with the old and in with the old. Poor old Mr Goff has been waiting, waiting, and waiting for 9 years to get the top job, and what is he doing now? He is waiting, waiting, and waiting for Shane Jones and David Cunliffe to stab him in the back. I understand that the talk around the Labour Party caucus is that the leadership of Phil Goff is so transitional that he is known as \u201CPhil-in\u201D. But enough of the tired Labour Opposition!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EI acknowledge you, Mr Speaker, for your 24 years of dedicated commitment to this institution. I acknowledge your intellect, and your respect for this institution. You will make a fine Speaker of this Parliament, and we all wish you the very best. I also offer my congratulations to Deputy Speaker Lindsay Tisch, who will also make a great contribution to this House. We have borrowed him from the racing industry. I congratulate Assistant Speakers Eric Roy and, of course, Rick Barker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EI take this moment to congratulate the mover and seconder of the Address in Reply debate\u2014in particular the mover, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, a young man who is indeed a real mover, and who I thought gave a very moving speech in the House this afternoon. He is a man who talked about the diversity of our Parliament, a man who believes very deeply in family values, and a man who I thought had a great line this afternoon when he said that bigger Government does not always produce better solutions. I acknowledge Melissa Lee, the first Korean member of Parliament. I confirm that she was correct: I am a kimchi lover, and if she is going to brew up a batch in her flat, I will come over and try a little bit of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EI congratulate all of the new MPs in the House, and I wish them the best for their maiden statements, which are, of course, a window into their journey of why they are here, and their beliefs. My thanks go to the National Party MPs\u2014a fine group of individuals, all 58 of them. I particularly thank the new MPs: Steven Joyce; Amy Adams; Hekia Parata; Kanwaljit Bakshi, the first Indian member of Parliament\u2014my congratulations to him\u2014Paul Quinn, a man who will be making a significant contribution to the parliamentary rugby team; Michael Woodhouse; Simon Bridges, who showed us that a massive win in Tauranga was always on the cards and possible; Louise Upston; Todd McClay, who along with Jonathan Young comes to this House with a family pedigree in history; Tim Macindoe; Aaron Gilmore; and, lest we forget, Nikki Kaye, who delivered Auckland Central for National, which is something that had never been achieved in our party\u2019s history. With each Parliament our Chamber becomes more diverse and more reflective of modern New Zealand, and the forty-ninth Parliament has not disappointed in any way, shape, or form. We have a new-look Parliament, a more diverse Parliament, and one that will reflect, I believe, modern New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EWe are, of course, a minority Government supported in confidence and supply by three parties. I acknowledge, firstly, the ACT Party, its five MPs, and Rodney Hide. It will bring to the Government a serious focus on economic development, economic growth, and solutions to the problems that our economy will need at a time when our economy is desperately in need of that. I congratulate Rodney Hide and Heather Roy for their promotions to their portfolios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the United Future leader, Peter Dunne, who once again will make a tremendous contribution to this Parliament, as he has done in previous Parliaments. He is the man known as \u201CMr Common Sense\u201D, and he will need to bring all of that common sense to the select committee he will be chairing on climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003ELast, but by no means least, I acknowledge the historic and special relationship with the M\u0101ori Party. In particular I thank Pita Sharples and Tariana Turia for their courage, their leadership, and their belief that this was a relationship worth investing in. I know that this relationship will benefit not only M\u0101ori Party supporters but indeed all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EThe ninth of November 2008 was a new dawn for New Zealand. It was the day after the country rejected the tired old policies of the Labour Government, its lack of direction, its years of distractions and sideshows, and its decade of missed opportunities. It was a Government that had forgotten who put it there, and, frankly, after a period of time it had forgotten why it was there. On 8 November 2008 the New Zealand public elected a Government they wanted to be focused on the issues that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EBut we have assumed the mantle of Government in arguably some of the most difficult economic conditions seen in a generation\u2014maybe in the lifetime of New Zealanders. This is a global financial crisis that threatens to put the world in recession. It is a global financial crisis that has seen the global banking system put on life support\u2014a system that has required an injection of capital right around the world. We have seen a pretty extraordinary situation, where a bank such as Citigroup, worth just under US$300 billion, collapsed into a value of around US$28 billion before it was bailed out by the United States Government. So the challenges that my Government faces are very different and very difficult ones. They are certainly very different challenges from the ones that the Labour Government of the last 9 years faced, when the hardest decision for Labour was how to spend New Zealand taxpayers\u2019 money. That was it\u2014how to spend taxpayers\u2019 money was the hardest decision\u2014but that will not be a luxury our Government will have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EPeople can imagine how we reacted, when, knowing conditions would be immensely tough, we then found the ticking time bomb called the Accident Compensation Corporation\u2014a $2.3 billion hole that Phil Goff did not talk about in his speech. I simply say this: for a party that campaigned on trust, to leave a $2.3 billion hole in the accounts is nothing short of a disgrace. But I guess that is why that party was thrown out of office: the New Zealand public did not trust it. We will be undertaking a ministerial inquiry. I cannot tell the House whether that inquiry will find that Labour Ministers broke the fiscal responsibility Act and broke the law. But I do not need a ministerial inquiry to tell me this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278dac075352449c88bf4e33924a23ba2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: There is no such Act!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281d5f7337c104593997946015ea937f4\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: They do not want to hear about it. They are very chipper and very chirpy, but that was not the case when they were writing to each other about the $300 million yearly ticking time bomb. They were not quite so vocal at that point. You see, I do not need a whole ministerial inquiry to know that the Labour Government defeated the spirit of the fiscal responsibility Act. Those members knew there was a billion dollars required for the non-earners account alone, and they were as quiet as little church mice. They were busy making lots of noise out there, but they were very quiet when it came to accident compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EWe have assumed the Government benches in very difficult economic times. In the middle of December Mr English will release the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, and I think New Zealanders know that that update will contain a lot of red ink. Well, my message for New Zealanders is that they should not take this as a time when their Government should overreact. We have a plan for this economic problem; we will reach through the recession. This is not a time for slash-and-burn; this is a time for the Government to show some strength, and it is time for the Government to look beyond what are some pretty short-term difficult numbers, because we know we can take New Zealanders out of this and make New Zealand stronger. But we should be under no illusion: the only hope for the finances of the Government, the only hope for our young people, and the only hope for our country is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298bc94f607154fc5b5006b3b87e3c4f2\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: A new Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e41b3ad18324e538d900b77c838e9b0\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014not a Labour Government, as Chris Carter would say; we all know that. The only hope is economic growth. That is the only hope to get us through. If there was a decade of deficits when Dr Cullen had not even taken into consideration the worsening 6 weeks, or the billion dollars of the Accident Compensation Corporation\u2019s non-earners account, it is fair to assume that the deficits of the decade will be considerably larger in the way that Treasury is forecasting them. The Government actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220309c4d3be0d4027b04a11c06e0b5a60\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a speech, or is it stream of consciousness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022748973fd18af448dbfd26dadf3576b34\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you see, the difference between our Government and Mr Carter when he was in Government is that we are actually going to have to do things. We are going to have to actually get out there and not just spend money, not just create more inter-departmental Government working groups, and not just have more strategies and more sessions; we are actually going to have to do more with less. That is what we are going to have to do as a Government. We are going to have to eliminate waste. We are going to have to get on top of the huge growth in bureaucracy we have seen in the State sector. Again we picked up the paper today to read about the Government Shared Network\u2014yet another experiment that the Labour Party commissioned. That has failed. There was no mention of that in Labour\u2019s speech. There was no mention of the fact that there were no tax cuts for 9 long years under a Labour Government until it was staring down the barrel of defeat. It was much keener on lifting the bureaucracy and much keener on spending other people\u2019s money. It was only in the dying days of a dying Government that there was any commitment on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EOur Government will lift the cloak of red tape and compliance costs on the suffering small businesses in New Zealand. I can tell members of the House that out there amongst small businesses there is a real sense of excitement and encouragement that help is on its way. But we will not be passing a new law or a new regulation, or finding a new way to slow them down; we will be backing them. There was Mr Goff, in his speech, back again on the politics of envy. We stand for the politics of aspiration. We believe in New Zealanders doing well and supporting themselves. There are tens of thousands of those small to medium sized enterprises out there, and I know they welcome the change of Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EOne of the big challenges for the Government over the next 3 years\u2014and then in the terms beyond\u2014will be to build infrastructure in this country, because we have a major infrastructure deficit. That is why my Government has appointed not just any Minister as the Minister of Infrastructure but the second most senior Minister in Cabinet\u2014if I can say that\u2014Mr English. He will be the guiding force as we look to build infrastructure across the country in roading, in energy, in public transport, and in broadband. My good colleague here, Mr Brownlee, sent me a fascinating stack of information about the increase in electricity prices overseen by that Labour Government over the last 9 years. I think it was a rate of 86 percent, was it not, Mr Brownlee\u201483 percent? There was an 83 percent increase in power prices over the last 9 years because that previous Government failed to invest in our national grid, failed to reform the Resource Management Act, and failed to bring enough new generation on stream.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EAs I go around the country, I see the excitement in the eyes of New Zealanders when they know they will have ultra-fast broadband delivered to their homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022454f026878ba406ab8d37a086e081646\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022974c79398a044d998912bcd76991af86\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: They are the sorts of people that David Cunliffe hangs around with in the weekend, the sorts of people who are actively encouraging Shane Jones to challenge for the leadership so early on, and the sorts of people that Stuart Nash knew in his former career as a business person\u2014they are out there; they want ultra-fast broadband. That will be delivered under our Government, and New Zealanders will be in the 21st century with ultra-fast broadband. But it will not happen with a bit of pixie dust or by snapping our fingers; it will happen because this Government is committed to reforming the Resource Management Act. That is a top priority for this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EAnd, yes, we have a high-level task force to assist the Minister in that regard. That is actually a very interesting point. The difference between our Government and the previous Government is that when we get advice from people who know what they are talking about we listen to it. OK, that is a big difference. Can I say, by the way, that while I was listening to Mr Goff\u2019s 30-minute speech, never once did I hear the very first words I heard out of his mouth when he became the leader: \u201CI\u2019m so sorry about the Electoral Finance Act. I didn\u2019t really believe in it. Helen made me sign up to it, and I\u2019m really sorry. OK? I\u2019m really sorry.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc21e71bc66543dd985b71e5074b182b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And what did Annette say about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223abc831c38bd440a98769dd51b2197ef\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Annette said: \u201CI\u2019m really sorry, too.\u201D She is really sorry that as Minister of Justice day after day, week after week, she had to be pulverised by Bill English in the House when she said that the law of common sense would resolve it all. Even the Law Commission could not understand the law of common sense. I want Mr Goff, in his temporary leadership role, to know that we will reach out to the Labour Party and consult on the new legislation that will repeal and replace the Electoral Finance Act. I cannot remember whether it was in the Otago Daily Times\u2014it may have been in the Dominion Post\u2014but in one of the editorials in the last couple of days a very good point was made. It said the new National Government should leave that legislation in place for 3 more years so that Labour could suffer even longer under its own legislation. But on this side of the House we are not so cruel; we are an inclusive Government, we are reaching out, and we will be doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EIn relation to the Resource Management Act, I say there will be more money and more capital expenditure going into infrastructure. Public-private partnerships are something Labour talked about but under Labour they were like white rhinos\u2014we never saw them. We heard about them, but we never saw them. Members will see some public-private partnerships under our Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EOne of the very, very important things our Government will be doing is lifting education standards in New Zealand. What a fine job Anne Tolley is going to do in leading that charge, and what a contribution Pita Sharples is going to make to that tail of underachievement\u2014of lifting up that tail to opportunities. Today we heard the story of two young people who have come into this House. Both of them mentioned the value of education, the difference education made to their lives, and how education was a liberator. Every one of the 122 members of this Parliament, we can assume, has enjoyed the benefits of a good education, while one in five young New Zealanders do not enjoy the benefits of a good education. Their literacy and numeracy skills are so poor that they have no future\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccef62a675da4e078da17ccdc17f6d79\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What are you actually going to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255e59bbc7d5a4bd2a722a964173467e8\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Carter that I recall that when one of the major school principals was sitting next to me on a plane a few months before the election, he told me: \u201CI\u2019m going to do something I have never done in my life. I\u2019m going to vote National.\u201D I said: \u201CWhy is that?\u201D. He said: \u201CBecause Mr Carter has been the worst Minister of Education in this Parliament\u2019s history and he has failed to lift education standards.\u201D Labour had 9 years and they squandered that opportunity; that will not be lost on our Government. Our Government will be legislating for national standards. We will be legislating for national standards, and we will be ensuring that youngsters have literacy and numeracy skills. We will be ensuring that that benchmark is there. We will be making sure that parents can understand exactly where their child is, in terms of literacy and numeracy, against the national standard. Most important, we will make sure there is an action plan to resolve those issues. That is how a Government makes a difference to a country. It is when everyone has equality of opportunity, and that comes through education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EBut it will not start and finish with national standards; trades and skills will be a very important part of the agenda for our Government. There will be world-class trade academies built in our schools across the country to give young New Zealanders an opportunity\u2014a pathway to trades and skills. There will be the Youth Guarantee for 16 and 17-year-olds. Mr Goff was kind enough to talk about it in his opening remarks. [Interruption] That is right\u2014for 16 and 17-year-olds. Not all of them will want to stay at school. They will be there enjoying the opportunity of free fees so they can go to the w\u0101nanga, the private training establishment, or the polytech to get those foundation skills and to go on those courses, to ensure that they can achieve in life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EThe fact has already been mentioned in the House today that law and order is not at a level where New Zealanders feel comfortable, or feel it is acceptable. My Government is going to have a real focus on lifting law and order and ensuring our communities are safer once again. That will involve quite a lot of legislative changes. They will include changes to the bail laws, they will include changes to parole laws, and they will include tougher sentences for those who commit crimes against young people. Why did it take 9 years of failure for the previous Government to address the issue of young people? There was not a peep, not a squeak, and not a word. Those members were like church mice; they were very busy changing the Electoral Finance Act or worrying about Winston Peters. They were too busy worrying about those things to get on with the core basics such as national standards or crimes against young people. Our Government will change that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EA very important issue for our Government is making sure that we crack down on the serious end of crime. Something that will not be going under a National Government is the Serious Fraud Office. It will stay, and it will investigate some very interesting crimes\u2014I would suggest white collar crimes\u2014over the next few years in New Zealand. Those who have broken the law\u2014mainly those who have defrauded New Zealanders out of their retirement savings with all sorts of dodgy schemes\u2014will know that the Serious Fraud Office will be there with all of its powers to investigate them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EWe will be dealing with the issue of gangs. Again, Phil Goff was 9 years in Government and there was not a peep, not a squeak, not a word, about gangs. On the campaign trail 4 weeks before the election he was despatched to say, all of a sudden, that he was going to do something, and that he might outlaw gangs, or that he might ban gangs. I can understand why he might want to ban Shane Jones\u2019 gang\u2014but, no, in 9 years there was no change. We will be changing that. And we will be delivering 600 police. It was great to see George Hawkins today when I was walking over the Parliament House bridge going into the reception, and I said to Mr Hawkins that, yes, 300 police would be coming to his community, to Counties Manukau, and to Judith Collins\u2019 and Pansy Wong\u2019s electorates, and we will be making those streets safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EWe will be dealing with the issue of climate change. I guess if there was one change in Mr Goff\u2019s speech it was this: it took him 29 minutes to debate the issue of climate change. It certainly was not the world-leading carbon neutrality\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221fb78439d104704b4f42b7b032c1de2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Same with you!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5845ad919fc4c5788c96ba8778392c4\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you see, we have always taken a balanced view to climate change, our environmental responsibilities, and our economic opportunities. We are not prepared to wave goodbye to New Zealand businesses; we are going to do something, and this Parliament, in a proper and mature way, will be debating that. When we despatch our Minister of Trade and Associate Minister for Climate Change Issues (International Negotiations) to Pozn\u00E1n in Poland in the next few days, he will be fighting for our corner when it comes to agriculture and land-use change and the ability to keep our economy strong, and we will be investing in technological solutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EMy Government will be focused on fixing the health system\u2014and what a mess Mr Cunliffe left in his short period of time there! There are stories of district health boards with exploding budget deficits. One of the very first moves\u2014and we will be making an announcement on it this week\u2014will be to take the financial stress off those New Zealand women who are currently paying for Herceptin. We are standing up as a Government and paying for 12 months\u2019 treatment. Mr Cunliffe said it could not be done; Mr Ryall has been in the job for fewer than 3 weeks and it will be done. That is what an action-focused Government is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003EThirty minutes is just not long enough when there is so much to talk about as a new Government\u2014whether it is the investment of 40 percent of the superannuation fund in New Zealand, whether it is the fact that we will be holding a referendum on MMP, whether it is the fact that we will be setting new standards for Government, or whether we will be in a situation where we are prepared to tackle the hard issues. We could spend so much time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214b8fbb3334d4666a63d1111bb5959c8\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: Move an extension of time, John, if you want to say more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861e5f12722443738e335d38e078018d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275e8c952209f4aaca17a25686fa1511b\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am more than happy to take more time, I say to Pete Hodgson, if he likes. I am more than happy to take more time. But, you see, in the end we really left that to the people of New Zealand who, on 8 November 2008 said very clearly through the ballot box that it was time for a change. And that change is about to be delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022 data-id=\u00221307b54f2a1a4da098ea841aa594e0dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221307b54f2a1a4da098ea841aa594e0dd\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I offer my congratulations on your election. The Green Party will support you in your efforts to raise the standard of debate and behaviour in the House. It is time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the Greens, I extend a welcome to new MPs. I hope they succeed in making the difference that they came here to make. I offer our congratulations to all returning MPs on their re-election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThe Greens are proud to be the third-largest party in the House and to welcome three new members\u2014a 50 percent increase in our numbers. We look forward to serving on more select committees, asking more questions, and covering more issues. So I am happy today to introduce to the House Kevin Hague, Catherine Delahunty\u2014who yesterday became a grandmother\u2014and Kennedy Graham. We have no backbenchers in the Greens. They all received a raft of portfolios on the day they arrived, and we know that all of them will make a big contribution to Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EAs the third voice in Parliament, the Greens are neither in Government nor Opposition; we are an independent voice for those who have no other voice here\u2014for the natural environment, for sustainability, for children born and for children to be born in the future, for those who suffer discrimination, poverty, and violence, and for all the creatures that we share this beautiful planet with. We are not part of any voting bloc. We have no agreement or defined relationship with the Government, but we do not see ourselves as a professional Opposition whose job is just to oppose. We will vote for good legislation. We will seek to amend bad legislation, and we will vote against it if we cannot amend it sufficiently. We are not opposed to any people or any parties, but we are opposed to poor policies, wherever they come from, and to bad legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EWe made it clear before the election that we would not give our confidence and supply votes to National, as its stated policies and programmes are just too different from ours. But we said that if it became the Government we would seek to work with it wherever we had common ground. Where that common ground might be is still to be established, but we will be talking before Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EI offer my congratulations again to John Key on becoming Prime Minister. It is a time of huge challenge, and he must be feeling the burden of that. I also acknowledge Helen Clark, who has made a big contribution to the history of this country. I say to Helen that her Government made a difference to many families who were struggling. She kept us out of an illegal war in Iraq. She embraced sustainability too late in her 9 years to deliver on it, but she may have eased that path for the future. We hope she finds another role in which to further the causes she believes in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EIt is commonplace now to say that this is the worst crash of the financial markets since the Great Depression. Last year\u2019s panic over inflation and an unsustainable bubble in the housing market has given way to a different panic, with nearly a year of economic contraction, lower commodity prices, people losing their savings with the collapses in the financial sector, people losing their jobs, and people losing their homes through mortgagee sales. The path out of this scary situation will not be quick or easy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EWe are in this mess because of greed, because of speculation, and because of individuals, corporates, and nations living beyond their means. Compulsive consumerism combined with a lack of regulation and safeguards around financial markets have been an explosive mixture. It is unrealistic to expect that the same behaviour will get us out of that mess. The invisible hand of the free market has shown what it can do, and it is not pretty. The freedom to sell what one does not own, and to lend what one does not have, results in the freedom for others to lose their homes, their jobs, and their families\u2019 security. What will get us out of the mess is a return to the values of cooperation, sharing, and sustainability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThe financial markets create no real wealth; they just move around the wealth created by others. They trade in what they call products, which are really just shadows of the real economy\u2014they have no intrinsic value. It is a zero-sum game: no one can make money in the financial markets without someone else losing it. That is not a recipe for social progress. But we are in a bind: if there is no credit, the modern economy cannot function, yet the more we bail out those who are failing, the more we use the savings of the prudent to reward the reckless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EOf course, it is mainly not those who caused the mess who are suffering from it\u2014it never is. Even the high-flyers who go bankrupt have very comfortable lives stashed away in trusts. The chief executive officers of companies announcing mass lay-offs still arrive for talks in their individual jets. Those with money do very well out of snapping up forced sales of companies, shares, and houses. So for every action we try to take to deal with the mess, we must ask who is paying for this, who will benefit from this, and what kind of behaviour this is encouraging for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EWe now have as Prime Minister a man who has come out of those same financial markets that have overreached themselves and crashed. I say to John that I guess we are all hoping that after spending all that time among them, he has some insights about how the international community could control them and ensure that this never happens again. Most of all, we are hoping that he will not allow this financial mess to disguise the much more fundamental mess that underlies it. Professor Peter Barrett, one of our most distinguished scientists, put it very clearly in the Dominion Post on Friday: \u201CMarkets recover in a few years\u2014climate takes millennia.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EOur society is now so divorced from its relationship with the natural world that many people cannot see that our economy and our markets are totally reliant on the environment, which provides resources and absorbs wastes. We cannot balance environmental responsibilities and economic opportunities, as the Speech from the Throne suggests. The economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. If the parent company collapses, so does the subsidiary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EWe note with disappointment that the only mention of the environment, even obliquely, in the speech was as an obstacle to development, requiring the weakening of the Resource Management Act. We hope this will not become known as the generation that saved the banks but let the biosphere collapse. It is not just climate. Demand for oil, gas, fresh water, food, and some minerals is outstripping supply, thus causing price rises that have contributed to financial collapses, at least for homeowners who could no longer afford to pay their mortgage as well as fill their tank and their pantry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThe world economy has grown so fast that environmental processes are breaking down. That tells us that unless we make radical changes in the way we do business and live, more growth will mean more pollution, more resource shortages and rising prices, more inflation, and, eventually, more ecological collapse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThere is a very direct relationship between oil prices and the recession. Oil prices of over US$150 a barrel have stretched household budgets and pushed people further into debt. World recession has seen oil drop to a 4-year low, because demand can now be met from the old onshore fields, where it costs US$5 to US$10 a barrel to extract and process it. Growing demand requires tapping the new fields in deep water or in the Arctic, where it costs US$70 to US$90 a barrel to extract and process. The surest sign that the recession is not yet easing is that fuel prices are still so low. If demand starts growing again, they will be back up to US$150, but a lack of refining capacity will mean scarcity and price rises. This will show up in food prices and in the inability of our markets to afford our exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003ENations are right now in the middle of a life or death negotiation in Poland on whether to act collectively to preserve a liveable climate for all of the world or to hold out for our individual, short-term interests\u2014and so all go down together, because we are all on the same ship. It is sad and embarrassing that New Zealand is not on the side of those arguing for clear, binding targets for all OECD countries and financial instruments to enable developing countries to cut their emissions, too. Instead we are arguing for taking food production out of the Kyoto Protocol. We are seeking an exemption for 50 percent of our greenhouse gas emissions before we even start trying to reduce them at all. The climate will respond to what we put into the atmosphere. The climate does not care whether we are food producers. After all, the world needs more cars, but Japan is not arguing for steel and coal in vehicle production to be outside the climate change agreement. We have to be realistic here: all emissions change the climate, and all emissions must come into the agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EIt is significant that New Zealand has sent its Minister of Trade to the talks to fight our corner. Trade negotiations are never about the collective good; they are always about individual country interests. They stall for years over trivia. They demand special exemptions for demanding political constituencies. We cannot afford to let Kyoto become another Doha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EA few months ago we passed legislation\u2014many years too late\u2014that put a price on carbon emissions. It was a weak economic signal to clean up, but at least it was a signal. Part-way through, the Government got cold feet and delayed the entry of transport for another 2 years. I ask Labour members, when they look at fuel prices now, whether they wish they had held their nerve on transport. Next January would have been the perfect time to bring transport in while fuel prices were so low\u2014as originally planned\u2014to keep up the momentum towards lower fuel consumption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThe emissions trading scheme has many loopholes, exemptions, and delays, but it was a start. Now, no one can figure out what is happening, and that is a recipe for a loss of business confidence and a loss of investment\u2014and it is already happening. The Prime Minister tells us that he will put the emissions trading scheme on hold. I ask him how. Energy, transport, and agriculture have had no obligations for ages, anyway. But foresters who planted over the winter of 2008 are legally entitled to credits in January 2009. Is this Government of property rights and business telling them that there will not be any credits in January 2009? Is a bill coming before the House during this urgency session to wipe out forestry credits and obligations? We hope not, because that would usher in a new season of clear-felling forests and converting to dairying with no penalty. I would have to drag out Nick Smith\u2019s old speeches that went on for months and months, blaming the Government week after week for creating just that situation in 2007. That would also see an enraged Roger Dickie climbing the steps of Parliament, and I would be supporting him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EPerhaps putting the legislation on hold is just a figure of speech, and nothing will actually happen. But business does not know, and business is worried. We already have a number of investors having second thoughts about investing in New Zealand. Now we have ACT\u2014the party that believes that climate science is wrong and that human-induced climate change is a myth\u2014trying to delay and confuse for another year by demanding a carbon tax. That is one more year of business offloading the costs of its emissions on to the taxpayer. The select committee will be instructed to consider that, and even to consider the bizarre suggestion that politicians should review whether the international science community has it wrong. That is still in the terms of reference, in code. I say to John that he cannot afford to waste public funds educating Rodney on 20-year-old science, and he cannot afford to let Rodney pull the National-led Government into fantasy land. It is time to take serious action to reduce our emissions and to join the global effort to reach an effective agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThe Government is proposing an infrastructure investment package to stimulate the economy. The Greens proposed such a package early in the election campaign, before other parties did. However, the packages are not the same. It is vital that the infrastructure we build prepares us for the very different world of oil depletion, climate change, and resource scarcity. We need more and better public transport and a rebuilt rail system, not new motorways. We need more affordable housing built to high standards of energy efficiency, and close to public transport and workplaces. We need the Greens\u2019 billion-dollar home insulation programme that this Government is going to axe. The programme would be the fastest source of new jobs in a recession, and would reduce people\u2019s power bills and keep people with asthma out of hospital. If John wants value for health dollars then he should insulate cold, damp houses. The Greens would be happy to work with him on that, and the money for it is already there in the dividends the energy companies will pay under the emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EI now hand over to my co-leader, Dr Norman, for the rest of our time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1aafdeed4c246f7a5368bedec304b80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204b98019e34f4c75aaf33f216d3a498a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I remind new members that they must refer to their colleagues by their full names rather than by just their first names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022 data-id=\u00229a00a7e723114614ad5e2a98e822564e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a00a7e723114614ad5e2a98e822564e\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party has a vision for Aotearoa New Zealand as a place where people respect each other and the natural world that we share. It is a vision for our country as a healthy, peaceful, and diverse place. We aspire to build an Aotearoa New Zealand in which we know our different histories and we are secure in our identity\u2014an Aotearoa New Zealand that honours Te Tiriti o Waitangi. The Greens are seeking to build a country in which our children, our elders, our families, and our communities are at the centre of national life, and where each person\u2019s unique contribution is valued. The Greens come to this Parliament to strive for a future in which participation, justice, and quality of life for all are valued over the individual attainment of wealth. We come here to transform our economic system into one that enables people to meet their needs from the bounty of the earth, within nature\u2019s limits. We are here because we have seen the damage that is being done to our beautiful country, and we believe that indigenous ecosystems need to be restored and replenished. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWe are here to support all New Zealanders, so that life in our country is a celebration of diversity and creativity. We have a vision of a future in which all are able to participate meaningfully in the decisions that affect both them and future generations. In coming to this House, we recognise the rights and interests of those who cannot speak or vote for themselves, and we will continue to be the voice for those who have no voice. The Green Party exists so that we can play our role in making these islands a shining light in the world for peace, justice, sustainability and democracy. That is our vision, and that is the vision we will promote in this Parliament over the next 3 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has a tradition in this place of listening to the arguments of others. We have a tradition of working constructively where we find common ground with others, in order to make progress towards our vision. These are traditions that we will hold on to in this new Parliament. We also have a tradition of being vigorous advocates for our vision, and staunch opponents of those who seek to take our country and our planet in the wrong direction. We will continue to be a staunch voice, and those who have come here to oppose sustainability, peace, justice, and democracy will find us formidable opponents. We represent 160,000 New Zealanders\u2014about 7 percent of the votes cast\u2014who expect us to behave respectfully in this House. But they also expect us to tell the truth about the state of the world. If that means upsetting some of those in the old, grey parties, then so be it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThis Parliament is, of course, significantly different from the last: the old, grey parties have swapped sides. To National, I say congratulations on forming the new Government. National received the votes of 45 percent of New Zealanders; it is an awesome responsibility. We are fortunate to live in a democracy where we can change Governments peacefully, based on the will of the majority. With our hearts we hope, for the sake of the future of our country, that National will use its new-found power wisely and judiciously. With our heads, we have doubts as to whether it will have that wisdom. But if National puts up sensible proposals, then we will happily work with National to improve them, just as we promised to do before the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003ETo Labour, I say congratulations on getting 34 percent of the votes. We had a difficult, but sometimes productive, relationship with Labour while it was in Government. The negotiations were often ruthless, the Government sometimes lacked vision, and, truth be told, many Labour MPs are in awe of the new right. But many Labour MPs are fine people, trapped in what seems to us to be an old grey suit. Perhaps we should ask which party the young idealist Michael Joseph Savage would have joined, if he had turned up here today. I hope the relationship with Labour can be productive, but let Labour make no mistake; the Greens are an independent party of principle, and we will not be participating in any shadow Cabinet, unlike the Progressive Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003ETo the M\u0101ori Party, I say congratulations on winning five of the M\u0101ori seats. I know those members wanted to win more seats, and the Greens did our best to help them. But that is still a strong foundation. We have a disagreement about tactics with the M\u0101ori Party, as those members have decided to hitch themselves to the National Government, or what should now be called the National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party - United Future Government. Every time this Government does something stupid, like opposing progress at the climate change talks in Poland, its support parties will wear some of that. Time will tell whether the decision to go with the Nats was the right one. We hope the decision will help the land and the people of the land, and we wish the M\u0101ori Party well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWe have worked with ACT cooperatively and respectfully as an MMP party, and I hope we can continue to do so. However, the ACT ideology does really seem to represent the right wing of the US Republican Party in New Zealand, as far as I can tell. The climate change denial, the opposition to science, the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D policy, the taxpayers\u2019 rights bill, and the war for oil are all Republican Party policies that have failed in the United States, and ACT is now trying to import them into our country. The US Republicans have just been ousted after the most disastrous presidency in memory\u2014a long, long dark night. They left that country staggering from a financial crisis due to financial deregulation, a massive prison problem, a massive crime problem, an unresolved, illegal foreign war, a massive debt, and so much more. Surely it is time to move on from the policies of the Republican Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI give greetings to the Hon Jim Anderton and the Hon Peter Dunne, and I hope that we can have a constructive relationship with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EIn the election campaign the Greens campaigned for our children\u2019s future. The Greens come to this place to be a voice for generations to come, and for those who do not have a voice\u2014those who are yet to be born, but who will bear the consequences of our actions. To paraphrase Shakespeare from Henry V: \u201CAnd some are yet ungotten and unborn that may have cause to curse the Government\u2019s scorn.\u201D Unborn New Zealanders will live to curse this Government if it decides to go into climate change denial. We have already had one ineffective Government on climate change\u2014emissions increased by over 10 percent over the course of the last Government\u2014and we cannot afford to have another one. So New Zealanders as yet ungotten and unborn will curse this Government\u2019s scorn if it continues to stand by, as the last one did, while our rivers, lakes, and beaches are polluted. The Resource Management Act is so weak that it provides little protection. Yet this Government so far bleats the mantra of industrial agriculture that it says we must weaken the Resource Management Act and cut out community participation in decision making. The weakening of environmental protection is not in the interests of our society or our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe Greens are the voice for the brand of New Zealand\u2014clean and green, 100 percent pure. It is a brand that is worth upwards of $1 billion a year in export earnings, according to a study commissioned by the Government in 2001. Let us think of the millions of dollars spent on promoting \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D, and of the generations of New Zealanders who fought to achieve a nuclear-free New Zealand\u2014our nuclear-free status being the underpinning of the clean and green branding. Why are we trying to throw it all away? It will not work as a tourism strategy to say: \u201CWelcome to New Zealand, but don\u2019t swim at our beaches or you\u2019ll get a case of diarrhoea, or a skin, ear, or eye infection.\u201D How can it possibly be in our long-term economic interests to lose our clean and green brand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe problem with the last Government was that it was too scared to take on Federated Farmers and industrial agriculture in order to clean up our rivers and lakes and constrain greenhouse emissions. Is this Government similarly scared? Will this Government sit on its hands while things get worse? Economics and the environment are joined at the hip. To paraphrase Bill Clinton: \u201CIt is the environment, Stupid.\u201D When we think about where the next wave of innovation and jobs will come from, we realise New Zealanders will either lead the world in developing innovative ways to protect the environment or find themselves once again being technology takers\u2014paying for technology developed overseas to reduce greenhouse emissions and clean up rivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe Republican \u201CGovernator\u201D of California talks about the green revolution\u2014the economic transformation that is creating millions of green-collar jobs around the world. New Zealand can be part of the green revolution, or we can once again fall prey to the laissez-faire anti-science brigade who say that the market knows best. Well, the \u201Cmarket knows best\u201D brigade has just collapsed the global financial system. Smart green solutions that face the science honestly and use innovation and the creativity of ordinary New Zealanders will be our future if the Green Party has anything to do with it. Bright, green ideas that deal with the environmental challenges, while building new businesses that employ New Zealanders in worthwhile occupations, will be the future that the Greens offer to our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThere are those who say that the Greens should speak only about what they call environmental issues, but there is no simple division between social and environmental issues. Climate change is the biggest social-justice emergency that this country faces. Millions and millions of inhabitants of planet Earth will die if we do not act. It is an environmental issue; it is a social-justice issue. Protecting our children from violence has been a Green priority from the beginning, and it will continue to be so. We make no apologies for that. Sadly, the referendum that is coming up on so-called parental discipline will add little to the debate. Poverty will continue to preoccupy the Greens. Even the Treasury briefing to the incoming Government acknowledged that poverty is an obstacle to economic development, because the abilities of poor children are never utilised as they never get the chance to do so. Our Prime Minister got a hand up through the welfare State and State housing, and now he says he wants to cap that opportunity for others. We need more social housing, not a cap on social housing. A society that is divided on itself, a society that treats people as a means to an end for the sake of someone else\u2019s profit, and an unequal society where the rich eat the future of the poor is not a society that will be able to deal with the challenges of environmental sustainability. By dealing with the environmental challenges we can have a more prosperous society, with a better quality of life. That is the virtuous circle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWe will also continue to campaign in this Parliament for safe food and country-of-origin labelling, just like that of our trading partners. If we do not know where our food comes from, how will we avoid a Chinese melamine scandal? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003ELastly, I want to talk about our democracy. The Greens are now firmly established as the third party in our democracy. There are those who would silence the voice of the Greens. During the campaign we saw a shameful collaboration between Labour and National to keep the Greens out of the televised leaders\u2019 debates. The result was a rather uninspiring debate. There are those who are frightened by what the Greens have to say, and there are those who are threatened by our truth-telling about the state of the planet and the state of Aotearoa, but we will not be silenced. There are those who want to try to silence the Greens by abolishing our proportional voting system and replacing it with some form of undemocratic elected dictatorship, like the supplementary-member representation system. If the last election had been run under that system, then the Greens would have one seat, or possibly two seats, in Parliament instead of nine, and that is exactly what the enemies of proportional voting want. It is not very different in that sense from first past the post. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EMMP brings not only a diversity of views but a diversity of people into Parliament. We have more women, more members from a M\u0101ori background, more Pacific Islanders, and more Asians in this Parliament as a result of MMP. The enemies of MMP and proportionality want to return us to a time when Parliament was made up of white men in suits. But I warn those with aspirations to silence dissent and diversity that their attempt to get rid of proportional representation will fail. Enough people remember what happened last time. We had an elected dictatorship. Our economy was wrecked and our society was ripped asunder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe Greens have come to this place to progress our vision of an Aotearoa New Zealand that is peaceful, just, democratic, and sustainable. We will be both constructive and staunch, as we need to be in order to achieve those goals. It is indeed, as Shakespeare would say, a case of \u201COnce more unto the breach, dear friends, once more\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022131542eaebdb40ed93c2f748522f1e2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022131542eaebdb40ed93c2f748522f1e2b\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Let me begin by paying my respects to the Rt Hon Helen Clark, who led this country for 9 years. I disagreed with many of the policies of her Government\u2014I am not a socialist\u2014but I do not think any of us can doubt that Helen Clark worked hard, was committed to New Zealand, and is a ferociously intelligent politician. I believe that Phil Goff has big shoes to fill in taking over from Helen Clark, but I believe that he and Annette King will be up to the task. Let me also congratulate John Key and Bill English on their success and say how much I have enjoyed\u2014already\u2014working with John Key, particularly in negotiating ACT\u2019s supply and confidence agreement with National. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EI want to thank the people of Epsom for putting their trust and their vote with me. I will continue to work hard each and every day to be the best MP that I can be for Epsom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EI want to thank the loyal ACT workers who have worked for many, many years to hold our party together, to build our support, and to deliver a better New Zealand. On election night we increased our vote to go from two MPs to five MPs. I think it is fantastic to have Heather Roy back, and to have Heather Roy as a Minister. I am so pleased that Sir Roger Douglas is back with us in Parliament. I am proud that we have John Boscawen, who led such a fantastic campaign against the Electoral Finance Act. If he had been a bit more successful, maybe the police would not be investigating me for my yellow jacket, but hopefully we can deal with that. I am also so pleased to have with us David Garrett, who will work to make New Zealand a safer country for everyone, which is something we all want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EOn election night 2008, clearly, New Zealanders voted for a change. They voted for an end to the nanny State, to the idea of politicians and bureaucrats telling us what we can do, when we can do it, and how we can do it, to the extent of making our showers dribbly and telling us what light bulbs we can have. I believe they also voted for an end to the politics of envy. They wanted an economy that was growing, and a tax system that rewards success rather than punishes it. John Key did an amazing job of putting together in 8 days the support that he has for his Government in this Parliament. That was unprecedented, and I have to say that if his ability at doing that is anything to go by, John Key is going to make a fine Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EFor our part, we concentrated on the big picture. The ACT Party is not a party that is there just to get a few extra policemen or extra spending on this or that\u2014what we were concerned about was all of New Zealand. We saw, and we continue to see, the key task to be building a stronger economy. That is why we have in the agreement the commitment to catching and matching Australia in the income stakes by 2025. That is a big, ambitious goal. We have set that goal in our agreement with the new Government. We realise that it is not enough to just set the goal, we actually have to measure it and adjust our policies on the basis of our achievement. To achieve that parity would require a lift in productivity of 3 percent a year. That does not mean Kiwis working harder. In fact, as we increase productivity, we can afford to work less. What it does mean is working smarter, with more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EWe have in the agreement the establishment of an advisory group to advise the Government and measure our performance annually on that goal. We are proud of that. It was made possible only by John Key\u2019s commitment to the relationship, and by the shared vision and philosophy that National and the ACT Party have. Indeed, if members saw the piece on the news last night about a poor family living in a garage, they would realise that our economy is underperforming and the costs of housing are too high. The answer to that is not for the Government to spend more money, it is actually to build a stronger economy, and get the costs of building and renting a house under control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EWe achieved other successes with National on behalf of New Zealand. The first was to get ACT\u2019s \u201Cthree strikes and you\u2019re out\u201D policy to a select committee for consideration. I heard other parties pooh-pooh that legislation, but those parties need to answer the question of what is wrong with having a law on the statute book that would see 78 New Zealanders who were murdered\u2014viciously cut down\u2014still alive today. What is wrong with such a law? Do those parties value innocent lives so poorly that they would rather let their ideological blinkers say that law does not work? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EOur review of the emissions trading scheme has come up for discussion here. It is very clear that ACT\u2019s position is that we should not have an emissions trading scheme. National campaigned on keeping one. We managed to negotiate, in the best interests of the country, a proper review of New Zealand\u2019s response at a high level. I have to say it would have been a lot better if the previous Government had done that at the start, rather than never doing it. I see those members of the previous Government continue to say they are in favour of diversity, but anyone who disagrees with them has to be shut down and shut out, and we cannot have the proper debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EWe also have a commitment to reviews on spending, and the medium-term goal of reducing the top rate of tax to 30 cents. It is clear to us and to New Zealanders that over the last 10 years spending has got out of control. We are pleased that we have a commitment to send ACT\u2019s Taxpayer Rights Bill to a committee. We are pleased that we have a new position of Minister for Regulatory Reform, a commitment to look at the Regulatory Responsibility Bill, and, indeed, to look at a productivity commission in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EWe are pleased about the taskforce on the Resource Management Act, because even if one was a committed greenie one would have to say that that Act is disappointing. It is certainly disappointing for the frustrations that it causes over silly things. I think everyone should agree in the House that we can do better. On education, I say that I look forward to working with the National Party, the M\u0101ori Party, the Green Party, and the Labour Party on an inter-party working group looking at what is wrong with having greater choice and diversity in education, and why we have such a monolithic, one-size-fits-all view on education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EBut, most important, on election night the people voted for a change. With John Key and the National Party, with the support of Peter Dunne and the United Party, with Tariana Turia and Pita Sharples and the M\u0101ori Party, and the ACT Party, change will be delivered. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022 data-id=\u00225daea06f9fde464e828c8a4f587401e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225daea06f9fde464e828c8a4f587401e1\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. The M\u0101ori Party stands to congratulate the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith on his election to the prestigious role of Speaker of the House of Representatives. I would also like to acknowledge the magnificent job done by the past Prime Minister Helen Clark over the last 9 years, and her achievements over that period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EIn his first words to the House as Speaker-Elect, Dr Lockwood Smith drew our attention to those who have taken the call of duty offshore\u2014the place names are up here on the Chamber walls\u2014and fought in the battlefields of North Africa, Egypt, Greece, Crete, Europe, and Asia; those who died in honour for Aotearoa. We remember them, and we think of that proverb: \u201CHe toa taumata rau\u201D\u2014bravery has many resting places. Bravery is found in the actions of a man who fled persecution in Afghanistan, who survived a disaster at sea, and who sought refuge in New Zealand to build a home for himself and his five children. But bravery is also found in the homes of some 16,000 New Zealanders who are the new unemployed, in the homes of 230,000 children who did not benefit from the in-work tax credit of Working for Families, and in the homes of the 23 percent of M\u0101ori children who are living in poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EIt is a brave nation that tackles the crime of poverty, the injustice of inequality, and the offence of violence. We in the M\u0101ori Party are proud to rise to the challenge, to be part of the solution, and to take up the opportunity to contribute to a better future for all. The Speech from the Throne is a road map ahead to guide us to that future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is honoured to be taking a turn in the driving seat, advancing our kaupapa, articulating a strong and independent M\u0101ori voice in the best interests of the entire nation. We are profoundly aware that just because someone is in the driving seat, that person does not have to run people over. That is why we welcome the opening statement in the Relationship and Confidence and Supply Agreement between the National Party and the M\u0101ori Party. It is a statement that recognises that mana maintenance and enhancement are important for both parties to the agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EThe word \u201Cmana\u201D is variously described as leadership, influence, prestige, power, authority, and control\u2014many things. This type of arrangement did not need the numbers to happen. The arrangement was one that transcended voting power to recognise the importance of acting in accordance with Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the Treaty of Waitangi. The M\u0101ori Party has spoken freely of its desire to act as an instrument for the Treaty partner\u2014not as the Treaty partner but as the link to bring the voices of the signatory to Te Tiriti o Waitangi into this Chamber. I make that distinction. The opportunity given in this arrangement is an opportunity that was endorsed by our people in the fast, full, and frank consultations schedule that we entered into some 3 weeks ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251711d967ba64712bcace9cbf9edda72\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: How many turned up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ad41f19c6824a49a6d08fa08eacacaf\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: My smallest meeting was 50. My largest was 250. We must ensure that we all use this time wisely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party brings to the arrangement with National a clear focus on Te Tiriti o Waitangi, wh\u0101nau ora, and investing in the economy to lead the productivity on a grander scale. We will be working hard to ensure that in all developments the impact on our people is clearly recognised. Our ministerial responsibilities in health, education, justice, social development, M\u0101ori affairs, and the community and voluntary sector emphasise our priorities for the next term. We seek significant outcomes in wh\u0101nau ora through working to eliminate poverty, advocating for social justice, and advancing M\u0101ori social, cultural, economic, and community development in the best interests of the entire nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003ENone of us can ignore the warning given in the Speech from the Throne that we are entering into very difficult times that have not been seen since the days of the Great Depression. But there are other tensions that we must address. Treasury\u2019s advice to the Minister of Finance described these medium-term economic challenges as globalisation, international integration, technological change, natural resource pressures, demographic changes, and increasing expectations on the State. As Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, my concern will be to ensure that there are policy levers in place that advance M\u0101ori economic development in areas such as aquaculture, energy, forestry, tourism, M\u0101ori land, and agribusiness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori agribusiness on its own already contributes over $1 billion to our economy, with another 450,000 hectares of M\u0101ori land to be further developed. Michael Ahie, chief executive of Shirlaws has challenged us to: \u201Crelease the economic potential of M\u0101ori, particularly on the land, where most of the assets are held.\u201D He described this as the M\u0101ori edge, the resilience and flexibility with an inherent, acquired trading ability. We might call this mana M\u0101ori, derived from the strength of our relationship with the land, and the legacy of our ancestors who adapted to, and adapted, the natural resources handed down to them, to sustain themselves and future generations. Such factors\u2014mana\u2014are not only of value in M\u0101ori commercial and economic development. We must stay focused on the pivotal goal of wh\u0101nau well-being and cultural resilience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EWe are pleased to hear the Speech from the Throne give weight to vulnerable New Zealanders, to those who work hard but who may suffer redundancy or add to the unemployment queues. This House must take as a starting point the fact that 22 percent of young M\u0101ori aged between 15 and 19 are currently unemployed, compared with the national average of 14 percent. We must hold that 22 percent in our vision; we must look into their faces and make a promise to their future that they will not be left behind. Our future growth and prosperity depends on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EMy colleague Tariana Turia will be dedicating her efforts across health and social services towards achieving wh\u0101nau ora. We know that the solutions are far more likely to be successful when owned and determined by the people themselves. We know, too, that M\u0101ori cannot afford to be spectators. We must actively engage with all our wh\u0101nau to revitalise our time-honoured traditions that have held us in good stead until now. We must live by kaupapa that enable us to restore good health and well-being to all of us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EThe Speech from the Throne identified a host of areas in which the M\u0101ori Party has an active interest. We will be participating in the review of the emissions trading scheme to ensure that we encourage environmentally responsible choices, including encouraging the biggest emitters to change the way they do business. We have a strong interest in ensuring the relevant sections of the Resource Management Act that recognise and provide for the relationships of M\u0101ori and our culture and traditions with our ancestral lands, water, sites, w\u0101hi tapu, and other taonga are taken into account in giving effect to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003ETangata whenua have a vital interest in water\u2014the rivers, the lakes, the springs\u2014the mahinga kai that are an integral part of their tribal mana. We are delighted to hear that the Government will demonstrate fresh energy in resolving and achieving durable Treaty settlements, as well as having the courage to review the Foreshore and Seabed Act and to initiate a constitutional review to critically examine M\u0101ori electoral participation. We are all desperate to curb the so-called long tail of underachievement that stigmatises many of our schools, and in particular the underwhelming outcomes that have featured as an indictment on M\u0101ori education for far too long. As Associate Minister of Education and Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs I will be channelling considerable energy into the literacy and numeracy programmes that have proven to be so successful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EIt is time to be brave on many fronts. The M\u0101ori Party is prepared to step up and do the work necessary to ensure that a strong and independent M\u0101ori voice is heard in every debate, on every issue, and in every home as we, as a nation, unite in our resolve to invest in a brighter future for all. T\u0113n\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb5006e36a8f46fd9599f9e27d7c6617\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb5006e36a8f46fd9599f9e27d7c6617\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to begin by congratulating the Government on its achievement in winning the general election and the confidence and trust of many New Zealanders. The responsibility that the public has handed to it is enormous, and though I strongly oppose some of the plans it has made for New Zealand, as a loyal New Zealander, the Government has my very best wishes for success in its stewardship of the economy and our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EI hope that its promises come true. National promised to make significant reductions in crime; it promised that New Zealanders would stop leaving New Zealand to live in other countries; it promised that our wages would equal or surpass the wages of Australians; it promised that it would radically cut taxes on ordinary working families, and that it would increase spending on all of our social services\u2014all at the same time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EIt promised that a National Government would not overtax New Zealanders with fiscal surpluses nor project deficits into the future, but it would, instead, berth the fiscal super-tanker precisely on a low-tax, high-spending button every single Budget. The Prime Minister, when in Opposition, travelled to many disadvantaged streets and promised that we would no longer have pockets of deprivation in our cities where some kids are left behind in poverty. He promised that all our children will be able to read and write, because the testing that National would introduce to the education system will make all the difference in the world. He promised us world-class infrastructure, the fastest broadband in the world, an end to disputes over water allocation, instant resource management decisions, and new motorways where today there are only broken dirt tracks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister spent the election campaign travelling to many marginal seats, and making solemn pledges of unbudgeted \u201Cthink big\u201D spend-ups totalling hundreds of millions of dollars. In all those towns and cities they are now waiting patiently, expecting him to deliver. I wish the Government good luck with all of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThere was not a single item on that list that I would not wish the Government to succeed in delivering. As promises go, they are slightly more ambitious than I would have been, however. I would have recommended that promising absolutely everything to absolutely everybody risked disappointing someone, sooner or later. However, I will be the first to congratulate the Government if it pulls off a significant portion of its stunningly immodest programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThe Government will start its term this week with a swag of legislation. It will not send those new laws to select committees, however, as democracy and good government would require. This is a Government whose members campaigned in Opposition against what they said then was the end of democracy. In Opposition, those members promised a fresh new standard of good government, and the Government\u2019s very first act was to throw out those democratic standards it supported in Opposition, such as select committee hearings on its proposals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThe Government is entitled, of course, to put in place the policy it has a mandate for. But the Government makes a mistake if it thinks every bill it drafts will be perfect at the outset. Many Governments have done that. So it has started with a defining combination of mediocrity, weakness, and arrogance. It is too weak to hold public hearings on its laws, too insecure in the strength of its ideas to truly believe that they will hold up under scrutiny, too arrogant to admit its ideas could be improved, and too mediocre to deliver on the promises it has made to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EAlready in the short month since the election, we have seen one example of a weak, arrogant Government in action\u2014its reaction to the potential Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) budget blowout. I have listened to Ministers bumble through this issue, with growing amazement that anyone could enter Government so little prepared for its challenges. Confronted with a change in the actuarial calculations facing ACC, Ministers panicked. This is an inexperienced Government that has yet to understand that officials will come to it every month, perhaps every week, and even on most days, demanding more money for something they say faces a crisis. This week it is ACC; next week it will be the hospital system. Will they panic again when district health boards report their annual deficits? They had been reporting them to the Government I was a member of for 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003ELet me make some predictions. Some defence and information technology projects will suddenly develop cost overruns worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Some State-owned enterprises will reduce their profit projections from rosy to deficit levels. They will demand huge capital injections to remain viable. The new biosecurity scare will need tens of millions of dollars to eradicate or control something. The previous Government had plenty of ammunition fired at it by the National Party about that. Every week other mundane crises will come before Cabinet Ministers. Ministers need to be strong enough to deal with them. But what did we get in this ACC episode? Did we get strength? Did we get sophistication? Did we get wisdom that says, yes, ACC actuarial calculations go up and down? No, we saw the sort of arrogance that is already beginning to look like the colour of this Government. There was a massive overreaction. We are to have a ministerial inquiry. We will be having a lot of those if every time there is an overrun in someone\u2019s budget, there is a ministerial inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThe Government needs to toughen up, even at this stage. It needs to toughen up because it cannot have a free lunch, with the policy it has promised. It will have to make some hard choices. In 1999 the previous Government was elected with a Crown net debt of over 20 percent of GDP. By last year, the net debt had gone. We had positive net financial assets. This National Government wants to blow that again. Treasury will not report its current set of forecasts for Crown debt until after the Government\u2019s new laws have been passed under urgency. In other words, the Government will spend the money before it knows whether it has it. That is what National Governments seem to me to always do. They take from the future, for the short-term advantage of today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s rushed increase in overseas borrowing is not to strengthen our economy. National is not going to fund more research and development. It is going to cut those things. National is not increasing borrowing to invest in higher education standards, and it is not increasing borrowing to promote exports as a proportion of GDP. Actually, I did not hear the words \u201Cexports\u201D, \u201Cscience\u201D, or \u201Cagriculture\u201D mentioned once in the Speech from the Throne today. That is extraordinary for a National Government. The Government is not increasing overseas borrowing to strengthen our regions or to create more jobs. The increased borrowing is to fund additional personal tax cuts. Those cuts are more generous to the most affluent, rather than to those people who are the most vulnerable in a global economic downturn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003ESomeone in the future will have to pay for National\u2019s irresponsibility. When we borrow from overseas to splurge on tax cuts for people who need them the least, someone has to pay for it. Someone in the future will pay more tax. Someone in the future will have his or her services cut. The problem is being compounded because National is reducing the ability of Kiwis to create their own nest eggs. The party that used to say it was all about personal responsibility is slashing KiwiSaver to pieces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EAt the very same time that we need most to strengthen New Zealand for the future, the National Government is doing the opposite. It is a mediocre Government with mediocre ideas about how we will meet the challenges that New Zealand faces. How mediocre is it? Well, the very first bill the Government announced today is a tax bill. At the centre of that bill is the largest-ever increase in tax on businesses in New Zealand. The very first thing this Government has done is increase tax on innovation. The very first thing it has done is to say that we have too much innovation in New Zealand and we are going to kill it off by taxing it. If I had more time, I would expand on that, but there will be time during the course of the next week or two. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I say that there is one area where we have much to do, and it is poverty, both here in New Zealand and globally. I heard the Government\u2019s pledges, in the Speech from the Throne, to end the cycle of disadvantage. That is a worthy ambition, and I support it. But I listened hard to how it will do it. The cupboard of ideas is as bare as the food cupboards in some of our most disadvantaged homes. I have watched with fascination the speed with which Governments around the world have been able to act to bail out huge companies and banks when they have been in desperate need. They have shown that, with goodwill, action is possible to help in an emergency. Governments can act to help when it is needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThat leaves a question for all of us in this Parliament. If that can be done for big companies and big banks in times of crisis, why cannot we do it for people in crisis? Why cannot we do it for the hundreds of millions of people who do not have enough food to eat, who do not have clean water, and who cannot have basic medicine? Why cannot we bail them out? New Zealand should be a voice for them internationally, and a voice of compelling new ideas that are emerging internationally to solve these global problems. At a time when the global crisis threatens to deepen global poverty and darken even further the skies over the lives of the world\u2019s least privileged, we should be saying that if the world could offer crisis help to the strong, then we must also offer emergency bail-out to the weakest and the poorest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EI call on our Government to work constructively across party lines to see how New Zealand can use our almost unique position in the world as an efficient food producer to make a difference. I will pledge my support for any efforts the Government makes to do just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022 data-id=\u0022641fe49ec7ab489bafc10a4fb4bde2f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022641fe49ec7ab489bafc10a4fb4bde2f9\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, may I begin by congratulating you on your elevation to the Speaker\u2019s Chair, and also the Deputy Speaker and the Assistant Speakers on their appointments. I wish them success in the roles they are about to undertake. I want also to pay my respects to our Governor-General, the Hon Anand Satyanand, and his wife Susan, for the tremendous job they do as our vice-regal representatives. They bring a dignity and a style to the role that befits the modern face of New Zealand. I look forward to the day in this House when we can pay tribute to our head of State as the head of the republic of New Zealand, not still as a British dominion and colony. But that is for another time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the contributions made by the mover and the seconder of this debate. What struck me during their speeches was not just their experiences and their tone, but the fact that they represented very much a new face of New Zealand. All of us in this House and across this country will have to come to grips with what that new face means and what its implications are for the development of policy, for the delivery of government, and for the expectations of our people over not just this 3 years, but 3 years and beyond, many times after that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI express my congratulations to the Prime Minister on his election victory, the stunning nature of it, the way in which he has smoothly and seamlessly put his Government together so quickly afterwards, the confidence that he brings to the role, and the assurance that demonstrates that he will be a Prime Minister who will make New Zealanders feel proud of their country once more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI also want to join with other members in paying a huge tribute to the previous Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Helen Clark. I think she has served New Zealand with extraordinary capacity, passion, and commitment over the last 9 years. She is widely regarded in international circles, and she has a huge contribution still to make. I for one fully support her in whatever her next endeavour might be, because she has been a great and loyal servant of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI also pay tribute to the previous Deputy Prime Minister, the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, with whom it was my privilege to work closely over a number of years. I just want to say to Dr Cullen that although we had some disagreements at times, we actually had a very robust relationship\u2014a good working relationship\u2014and I value what we were able to achieve during those years. I wish him well for whatever the future may bring for him, in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the Hon Phil Goff as the new Leader of the Opposition. It has been said many times that he \u201Cfits big shoes\u201D, and all those sorts of clich\u00E9s. I just simply know that Phil will bring a commitment and a dedication to the role, and one will never be left wondering where he stands on issues. I wish him well in whatever he carries forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EThe election that just passed was not a particularly good one for United Future. I would be the first to acknowledge that. I lament the loss of my colleague Judy Turner, and I acknowledge those members who have said kind things to me about her performance over the last little while, but I am confident there is a future for her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EThere is also a future for a party like United Future, with a strong and explicit commitment to all of the freedoms and the principles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to promoting human dignity and freedom, to respecting the role of parents and families\u2014a party that says that the National Party is too conservative but the Labour Party is too socialistic, and all the others are simply too dogmatic or extreme, and a party that is fundamentally committed to making New Zealand the best multicultural nation it can be. While that flame flickers, I will be here to fan it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EIn the agreement that United Future concluded with the Government after the election, there are a number of significant points I want to go over, because they are beneficial for a wide category of New Zealanders. I am delighted that our policy of income splitting for parents with dependent children, which we were able to advance during the course of the previous Government, will now be given legislative form and sent to a select committee where the whole issue of household income and the way in which second-income earners in households, in particular, are acknowledged by the tax system, can be carefully and thoroughly examined. I look forward to that legislation in about 18 months\u2019 time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI am also pleased that we were able to conclude in our agreement greater use of the private sector in the provision of surgery, particularly elective surgery, to help reduce those waiting lists in the public sector. It is simply crazy to have large waiting lists in the public sector while we have surplus private sector surgical capacity. I will be looking forward to working with the Minister of Health, and others, on a formula by which that balance can be redressed and that surgery provided in a more even way to the vast number of New Zealanders who currently miss out. I would like to see us, ultimately, moving to the objective of guaranteeing everyone over the age of 65, as a first instance, access to elective surgery within 6 months of diagnosis. I think that is an attainable objective. I think it is one that would give people a sense of hope and a sense of commitment that is currently lacking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI am pleased also that we will be advancing further the work on Medicines New Zealand, the National Medicines Strategy, which was developed during the previous term of Government to give us a better balance between cost of medicines, access to medicines, and the supply of those medicines to the New Zealanders who need them. In particular, there are some immediate priorities that I want to focus on, in that regard. The first is the issue of funding for Pharmac. At the moment, Pharmac\u2019s funding is determined in a very ad hoc manner\u2014basically what is left over in the health budget after everyone else has had their say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bf9fd305fb344ccb0c2134c9b90abf2\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: That member knows better; he was an Associate Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6613dafeff14b609bb7938366dc1eb9\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: One of the things that Medicines New Zealand focuses on is moving to a principles-based approach to funding, which is something Mr Cunliffe will know all about, because he agreed with it when he was Minister of Health. In fact, that will be delivered during the course of this year and it will ensure that we have a better balance in how funding is determined, so that issues such as the Herceptin argument, for argument\u2019s sake, will not have to be addressed in the way that they are at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003ELooking forward, beyond that, there is the issue of the much greater involvement of the pharmacy sector in the provision of medicines and pharmaceutical care, and work is already under way in terms of discussions with the Pharmacy Council, the Pharmacy Guild, and others, about how that better integration can occur. I am looking forward to significant progress in that area over the next term of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI want to say a word about the issue of public-private partnerships, and I am pleased that in the agreement the question of Transmission Gully has been addressed and its eligibility for a public-private partnership acknowledged. I am not at all convinced that that is necessarily the way to go, at this stage, but I am convinced\u2014and I see that Mr Hughes nods and agrees with me\u2014that the highway needs to be built and that we need to make some decisions during these 3 years about the way in which this is funded and the way in which that development occurs, and I see a public-private partnership as a potential option. I am pleased that, in the agreement, we have provision for that occurring, and I am certain that, as a result of discussions that are about to get under way, we will see progress and we will see some certainty delivered on what has been a festering sore in Wellington\u2019s transport regime for many, many years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI want to make a few comments about the issue of the emissions trading scheme. What is important is that the review that is being proposed to be carried out by a select committee is seen as being a way in which we ensure that this country meets its responsibilities in a proper way. This is not the time to try to reinvent the wheel in terms of some of the science. I certainly do not see it as appropriate or competent for a select committee to try to second-guess a lot of the international evidence that has been available, but it is a time to look at whether the regime that has been put in place for New Zealand is, in fact, a workable one, is, in fact, constructive, and does not impose too many costs on New Zealanders and New Zealand households. I believe that the review that has been announced, and the terms of reference that have been foreshadowed, will enable a select committee to come to grips with that work in a relatively coherent and quick way, and to recommend a way forward, so that this country puts in place a regime that is sustainable in the environmental sense, sustainable in the economic sense, and sustainable in the political sense as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EThis Parliament has a very large workload ahead of it, and I say to the new members who have joined us that they are coming to Parliament at an extraordinarily challenging time in our country\u2019s history, because, as I indicated in response to the speeches from the mover and the seconder of the debate, we are seeing a new tide here, and I am sure it will be reflected in the speeches of other members. A new generation, effectively, has come to this House and they expect their requirements to be met. They expect their interests in terms of the broad sweep of policy to be addressed, and I am sure that within the various parties they will be urging all of their leaderships to reflect their interests to a much greater extent. So I think the next 3 years will be exciting. I think they will be challenging, I think they will be stimulating, and, overall, I think they will be positive for New Zealand\u2014and it will be the members of this House who will contribute to making that so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002201632577efc54ec2bf0c9124d532a3c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201632577efc54ec2bf0c9124d532a3c8\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the debate be now adjourned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f43b4f6adb1548c5b005684d03b18102\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the debate be now adjourned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022914748a01c5942839ae6222e9416644d\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e6be4c4d0ba4aeb9a7be6c7ea8543a7\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002254b54194cce74b7b965da5b15cbdcc6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254b54194cce74b7b965da5b15cbdcc6c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E As agreed in the Business Committee last night, I seek leave for the time allocated by the Business Committee to maiden statements to be deducted from the 19 hours of the Address in Reply debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022 data-id=\u0022202e11bcc3ad4e6a8e7513b63063c3c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022202e11bcc3ad4e6a8e7513b63063c3c2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022633446da91ae49f1a4b41d1f6bdc37c5\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223555aca52922448da9414497c81e6045\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022702d24132db34432a2bb280458aaa39b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022702d24132db34432a2bb280458aaa39b\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the introduction and passing of Government bills dealing with taxation, employment relations, bail, education, and sentencing; Government notices of motion Nos 4 and 5; and any maiden statements to be made at times determined by the Business Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u002233c97bd100dd44ec926be75ef0681ef2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233c97bd100dd44ec926be75ef0681ef2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I raise just two issues. Firstly, the Business Committee was informed yesterday that there would be separate bills for taxation and for KiwiSaver\u2014both of them to be taken through all stages. I assume from that motion that since yesterday evening at 5.30, the Government has amalgamated those two bills into one. The second point I would raise is that there was a general reference to bills dealing with certain subjects. Do I take from that that some of those bills have yet to be drafted, and therefore their titles are not yet known?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00223d66ff301bd7469481abce72974ca7e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d66ff301bd7469481abce72974ca7e4\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E The indication from me yesterday was that there would be two bills; there now is just the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. There also is the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. Matters relating to changes to KiwiSaver are contained in both those bills; there is no separate bill. Further to that, the Opposition has been supplied with a list of the names of the bills that the Government intends to advance. The motion does not need to specify them, as the honourable member well knows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226e561158d58940f48083de54e1649eef\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002268a25a6b031946089743577bc4421c00\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c45c097b52d040249123a83bdfcbc894\u0022\u003EQuestion Time\u2014Leave to Hold in Urgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u00225a21fecaec9e4edab0ad458e61a07d1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a21fecaec9e4edab0ad458e61a07d1d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave for question time to be held according to the standard rules at 2 p.m. tomorrow and at 2 p.m. on Thursday, so that the Ministers of the new Government can be held to account, as they should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5b1eeb5344e424ca96fd44c3df534b6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022853b4a38b5884e45b7808c8e673aabba\u0022\u003EReinstatement of Business\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022079f8fd1f3b84a69b48efd080156ecb9\u0022\u003EReinstatement of Business\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0d0ba66dabf4c0f99fb51a89b4df6ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0d0ba66dabf4c0f99fb51a89b4df6ad\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the following business be reinstated: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAlcohol Advisory Council Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAquaculture Legislation Amendment Bill (No 2) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EArms Amendment Bill (No 3) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EBuilding Amendment Bill (No 2) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EChildren, Young Persons, and Their Families Amendment Bill (No 6) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EClimate Change (Transport Funding) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECommerce Commission (International Co-operation, and Fees) Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EConservation (Protection of Trout as a Non-commercial Species) Amendment \tBill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECopyright (Artists\u2019 Resale Right) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECopyright (Commissioning Rule) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECorrections Amendment Bill (No 2) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECriminal Proceeds (Recovery) Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECultural Property (Protection in Armed Conflict) Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EDog Control Amendment Bill (No 2) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EDomestic Violence Reform Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEducation (Establishment of Universities) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEducation (Establishment of Universities of Technology) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEducation (National Standards of Literacy and Numeracy) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EElectoral Finance Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EElectoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EElectricity (Continuance of Supply) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Amendment Bill (No 3) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEnergy Efficiency and Conservation Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EFamily Proceedings (Paternity Orders and Parentage Tests) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EFranklin District Council (Contribution to Funding of Museums) Amendment \tBill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EForeshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EGambling Amendment Bill (No 2) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EGovernment Superannuation Fund Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHealth and Safety in Employment Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EImmigration Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EInquiries Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EJudicial Matters Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELand Transport Amendment Bill (No 4) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Driver Licensing) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELegal Services Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELiquor Advertising (Television and Radio) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Trustee Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Trustee and M\u0101ori Development Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMarine Reserves Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMarine Reserves (Consultation with Stakeholders) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinimum Wage and Remuneration Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMisuse of Drugs (Medicinal Cannabis) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENga Rohe Moana o Nga Hapu o Ngati Porou Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOaths Modernisation Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOrganised Crime (Penalties and Sentencing) Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOverseas Investment (Queen\u2019s Chain Extension) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPalmerston North Showgrounds Act Repeal Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPatents Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPort Nicholson Block (Taranaki Wh\u0101nui ki Te Upoko o Te Ika) Claims \tSettlement Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPrivacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPrivate Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EProtected Disclosures Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPublic Health Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPublic Works (Offer Back of and Compensation for Acquired Land) \tAmendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ERail Network Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ERegulatory Improvement Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ERegulatory Responsibility Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReserves and Other Lands Disposal Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EResidential Tenancies Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EResource Management (Climate Protection) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESale of Liquor (Objections to Applications) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESale of Liquor (Youth Alcohol Harm Reduction) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Liquor and Liquor Enforcement Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESearch and Surveillance Powers Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESerious Fraud Office (Abolition and Transitional Provisions) Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESettlement Systems, Futures, and Emissions Units Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESocial Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans \tPension Overseas) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EStandards and Accreditation Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETaxation (International Taxation, Life Insurance, and Remedial Matters) Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETherapeutic Products and Medicines Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETrade Marks (International Treaties and Enforcement) Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETrade (Safeguard Measures) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETrustee Amendment Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EUnit Titles Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWaikato-Tainui Raupatu Claims (Waikato River) Settlement Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWaka Umanga (M\u0101ori Corporations) Bill \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWanganui District Council (Prohibition of Gang Insignia) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWhakarewarewa and Roto-a-Tamaheke Vesting Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAllocation of 2008/09 financial reviews\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECommerce\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAccounting Standards Review Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EBroadcasting Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EBroadcasting Standards Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECommerce Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEarthquake Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EElectricity Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EElectricity Corporation of New Zealand Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EGenesis Power Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EGuardians of New Zealand Superannuation \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EGovernment Superannuation Fund Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EKordia Group \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMeridian Energy Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMeteorological Service of New Zealand Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Economic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMighty River Power Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Post Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Trade and Enterprise\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Tourism Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Venture Investment Fund Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPublic Trust\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ERadio New Zealand Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESecurities Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESolid Energy New Zealand Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EStandards Council\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETakeovers Panel \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETelevision New Zealand Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETesting Laboratory Registration Council of New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETranspower New Zealand Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEducation and Science\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAgResearch Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECareer Services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEducation Review Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EFoundation for Research Science and Technology\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EIndustrial Research Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EInstitute of Environmental Science and Research Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EInstitute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELandcare Research New Zealand Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELearning Media Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Research Science and Technology\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENational Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENational Library of New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Forest Research Institute Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Institute for Crop and Food Research Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Qualifications Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Teachers Council\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETertiary Education Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EThe Horticulture and Food Research Institute of New Zealand Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EFinance and Expenditure:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAir New Zealand Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EDepartment of Building and Housing \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EDepartment of the Prime Minister and Cabinet \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EInland Revenue Department\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Food Safety Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Railways Corporation \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOffice of the Controller and Auditor-General\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EThe Treasury \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EForeign Affairs, Defence and Trade:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Defence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Antarctic Institute \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Customs Service \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Defence Force \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EGovernment Administration:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EArchives New Zealand Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EArts Council of New Zealand Toi Aotearoa\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EDepartment of Internal Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EDrug Free Sport New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOffice of Film and Literature Classification\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOffice of the Clerk of the House of Representatives \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOffice of the Ombudsmen\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry for Culture and Heritage\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Pacific Island Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Women\u2019s Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMuseum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Film Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Fire Service Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Historic Places Trust (Pouhere Taonga)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Lotteries Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Symphony Orchestra\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EParliamentary Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESport and Recreation New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EState Services Commission \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EStatistics New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHealth:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAlcohol Advisory Council of New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAuckland District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EBay of Plenty District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECanterbury District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECapital and Coast District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECounties Manukau District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECrown Health Financing Agency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHealth and Disability Commissioner \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHealth Research Council of New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHealth Sponsorship Council\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHutt District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELakes District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMental Health Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMidCentral District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENelson Marlborough District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Blood Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENorthland District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOtago District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPharmaceutical Management Agency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESouth Canterbury District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESouthland District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETairawhiti District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETaranaki District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWaikato District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWairarapa District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWaitemata District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWest Coast District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWhanganui District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EJustice and Electoral:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAbortion Supervisory Committee \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECrown Law Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EElectoral Commission \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHuman Rights Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELaw Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELegal Services Agency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EParliamentary Counsel Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPrivacy Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELaw and Order:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EDepartment of Corrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EIndependent Police Conduct Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Police \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESerious Fraud Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELocal Government and Environment:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EDepartment of Conservation \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEnergy Efficiency and Conservation Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEnvironmental Risk Management Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry for the Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EParliamentary Commissioner for the Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of M\u0101ori Development (Te Puni K\u014Dkiri)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETe Reo Whakapuaki Irirangi (M\u0101ori Broadcasting Funding Agency)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETe Taura Whiri I Te Reo M\u0101ori (M\u0101ori Language Commission)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPrimary Production:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAnimal Control Products Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAsureQuality Limit\u00ED\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELandcorp Farming Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELand Information New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Agriculture and Forestry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Fisheries \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EQuotable Value Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETimberland West Coast Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESocial Services:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECharities Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EChildren\u2019s Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EFamilies Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHousing New Zealand Corporation \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Artificial Limb Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ERetirement Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ESocial Workers Registration Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETransport and Industrial Relations:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Corporation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAirways Corporation of New Zealand Limited \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECivil Aviation Authority of New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EDepartment of Labour\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELand Transport New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMaritime Safety Authority of New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EMinistry of Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETransit New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETransport Accident Investigation Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetitions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ECommerce Committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/78 of John Andrew Dickson\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EEducation and Science Committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/176 of Erin Roe and 287 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/188 of Ngahuia Nuri and 3,043 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EFinance and Expenditure Committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/183 of Edith McIndoe \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/190 of Grant Morgan \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EForeign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/87 of Poutama Tsoi and 965 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/88 of Poutama Tsoi and 1,794 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/89 of Poutama Tsoi and 2,572 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/90 of Poutama Tsoi and 270 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/91 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/92 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/93 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/94 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/95 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/96 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/97 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/98 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/99 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/100 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/101 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/102 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/103 of Homeira Madani and 1,346 others \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/117 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/118 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/119 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/120 of Poutama Tsoi and 862 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/121 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/122 of Poutama Tsoi \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/146 of Malcolm Ball and 22 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/149 of Poutama Tsoi and 2,050 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/151 of Geoff White on behalf of Trade Aid\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/161 of Robert Ritchie and 2,780 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/164 of Hamid Moradi and 182 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/185 of Morgan Davie and 86 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EHealth Committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/68 of Tui Kay Fazakerley and 2,735 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/84 of Chris Fowlie, President, on behalf of NORML New \tZealand Inc and 2,991 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/148 of Mandy Carter and 27,464 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/163 of Maxine Cook for The Herceptin Riders \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/170 of Nicola Grace for Health Freedom New Zealand and \t7,000 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/177 of Ngaitia Nagel and 11,370 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/186 of Vee Bryce\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/187 of John Gregory Shennan and 6,096 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EJustice and Electoral Committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/178 of Heinz Rosenberg\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELaw and Order Committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/156 of Te Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ELocal Government and Environment Committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2002/122 of Len Harvey and 1,196 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/162 of Pat Van Alstyne\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/168 of Metiria Turei MP\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/175 of Todd McClay and 1,074 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/179 of Sarah Allen and 3,100 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPrimary Production Committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/182 of Riki Harris\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003ETransport and Industrial Relations Committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/181 Hon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EPetition 2005/189 Nicky Wagner and 435 others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOther matters referred to committees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EInternational treaty examination of the Final Acts of the Plenipotentiary \tConference, Antalya 2006 (International Telecommunications Union)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EInternational treaty examination of the Final Acts of the World \tRadiocommunication Union Conference, Geneva 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EInternational treaty examination of the Revised Constitution of the Asia-\tPacific Telecommunity\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EQuestion of privilege relating to the exercise of the privilege of freedom of \tspeech by members in the context of court orders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReview of Standing Orders relating to pecuniary interests\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOther business\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EOrders of the day for the consideration of the following:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EGovernment Notice of Motion No 1 and report of the Local Government and \tEnvironment Committee on the Dog Control (Perro de Presa Canario) \tOrder 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on whole of government \tdirection regarding all-of-government shared authentication services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Commerce Committee on the Inquiry into housing affordability \tin New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Health Committee on a Briefing on aspartame and petition \t2005/167 of Alison White and 7,886 others \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee on the \tinternational treaty examination of the Protocol of 1996 to amend the \tConvention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims 1976 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee on the \tinternational treaty examination of the Protocol Relating to Intervention \ton the High Seas in Cases of Pollution by Substances other than Oil, \t1973 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee on the \tinternational treaty examination of the International Convention on Civil \tLiability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the \tinternational treaty examination of the protocol amending the Agreement \ton Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) 2005 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the \tinternational treaty examination of the International Tropical Timber \tAgreement 2006 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Primary Production Committee on the international treaty \texamination of the International Convention for the Control and \tManagement of Ships\u2019 Ballast Water and Sediments 2004 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Commerce Committee on the Inquiry into the valuation methodology for State-owned enterprises \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Law and Order Committee on the international treaty \texamination of the Agreement between the Government of Australia and \tthe Government of New Zealand on Trans-Tasman Court Proceedings \tand Regulatory Enforcement \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Social Services Committee on the inquiry into the quality of \tcare and service provision for people with disabilities and petition \t2005/47 of Kate Moulson on behalf of the Canterbury Branch of the \tMotor Neuron Disease Association of New Zealand and 124 others, \tpetition 2005/49 of Averil Wooton, and petition 2005/26 of Sue \tRobinson and 533 others \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on the inquiry into M\u0101ori \tparticipation in early childhood education \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Regulations Review Committee on the Further inquiry into \tmaterial incorporated by reference \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Social Services Committee on the inquiry into the care and \trehabilitation of youth sex offenders \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the inquiry into the \tfuture monetary policy framework \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on the visit of the M\u0101ori Affairs \tCommittee to Australia, 26 to 30 May 2008 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on proposed change to \tformat of Estimates and other information presented with Appropriation \tbills \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Reserve Bank of \tNew Zealand\u2019s Monetary Policy Statement, September 2008 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Health Committee on a Briefing on meningococcal B \tvaccination programme \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Regulations Review Committee on a Complaint regarding the \tOverseas Investment Amendment Regulations 2008 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Regulations Review Committee on the inquiry into the use of \tinstruments of exemption in primary legislation \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Regulations Review Committee on Activities of the \tRegulations Review Committee in 2008 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EInterim report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the \tinquiry into New Zealand\u2019s relationships with South Pacific countries \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the \tinternational treaty examination of the Amendments to the Convention \tEstablishing a Customs Co-operation Council \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EReport of the Primary Production Committee on Briefings on declining \tnumbers in agriculture education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EIn doing so I simply say that it has become somewhat of a tradition in this House that most\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed2fab6cdefe46d79fb2b040fa1eeec2\u0022\u003E Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The notice of motion is laid out on the Order Paper. I know that it is somewhat lengthy, but it should actually be read in full, because that is the motion that is being moved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d5abea579a141f0bc0f21ea6b60ff20\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the point of order is a little unnecessary at this stage, Dr Cullen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cae58ce9b2a04f2fab1d4d5aa5ea93d0\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Dr Michael Cullen does make an interesting point, and that is that a significant amount of business is being carried over from the last Parliament to this one. Of course, a significant amount of business was carried over between the end of the Parliament before that, in 2005, and the start of the new Parliament in 2005. Interestingly, a number of the bills from that pre-2005 Parliament are still here, and, even more interestingly, some bills that were around in the 1999-2002 Parliament are also still here. It will not surprise people who know how this place works that at least one bill was here pre-1999.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EThe convention has always been that most business does carry over, so that the new Parliament can make its own determination. For the last two Parliaments there has actually been a Standing Order that requires that, rather than this debate being held at the end of a Parliament\u2019s life, at the beginning of a Parliament\u2019s life consideration is given to what should be carried over. There is also a provision that means that new Ministers who do not wish to progress a bill have an opportunity to ensure that the bill takes no further steps. None the less, bills in progress do get dealt with by the House, which is right and proper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWe consider that three things on the previous Order Paper should not progress. Two of those were interim reports on bills that have already been passed, so they were totally superfluous, and the other was the Education Amendment Bill (No 3), which we have decided not to progress, and therefore it has been omitted from the notice of motion. By and large, the Government is happy for this body of work to carry over, but I signal that Ministers will be terminating much of the business mentioned here, when they start to deal with the Order Paper in a more formal manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u00229d358d7a058b4fc98881b97fcf32ad13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d358d7a058b4fc98881b97fcf32ad13\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Could I begin by congratulating the Leader of the House on successfully moving a motion and speaking to it, which in the short life of this Parliament is a first for the Leader of the House. That is not to say, of course, that there were not a great deal of disasters along the way, because we have seen already in the motion on urgency that the Government has had to change its mind\u2014it has bills not yet drafted, with titles not yet known and content yet unknown, which are still being negotiated between the members of the various factions within the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EI want to say also that, with the Standing Orders having changed some little time ago, this is an important motion because it is constitutionally important. It is the incoming Parliament that determines whether to pick up the business of the outgoing Parliament, not the outgoing Parliament that tries to determine for the incoming Parliament what is done. I have no objection to the matters that have been deleted from the outgoing Order Paper. The Leader of the House is quite correct that those matters do not need to be concluded any longer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut could I ask a few questions, perhaps\u2014and some of my colleagues might want to take part in this debate. We did offer the Government the opportunity to have the motion taken before lunch time. There would have been one very brief speech, if that, on it and it could have been passed. But for some reason the Government decided to move this motion in urgency, as the first and most important item of business in urgency on the first real sitting day of the Parliament of this new National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government. This particular motion could have flown through the House at about 12.15 this afternoon with nobody even noticing. But that, of course, is the result of the rather strange way the National Party manages its business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EFirst of all, could I ask, since the member who moved this motion asked me so many times about the Conservation (Protection of Trout as a Non-commercial Species) Amendment Bill, what the Government\u2019s position is. Will it be passing this bill? For week after week, month after month, I dangled this bill in front of the National Party Opposition. Almost every week those members bit. The little fly-fisher Dr Cullen pulled out his little rod and Mr Brownlee bit almost every week, and I thought: \u201CMy God, how am I going to hang on to this rod with Mr Brownlee on the other end of it?\u201D Luckily he lacked the energy and very quickly let go again, and he went into a sort of a quiescent state. So I would like to know whether the Government will be passing the Conservation (Protection of Trout as a Non-commercial Species) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe second question is: what is the intention of the National Party\u2019s coalition partners the M\u0101ori Party in respect of the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill\u2014a bill that the M\u0101ori Party consistently avoided putting to the House week after week, month after month as a member\u2019s bill, even though it was the sole reason for the formation of that party? But when it came to the Order Paper, it ran away, so far inland, indeed, that it had to scale mountains to avoid the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill. I am told that Mrs Turia was on television on Sunday saying that M\u0101ori own the foreshore and seabed\u2014news, I am sure, to Mr Colin King. I can see his intelligent mien showing a great deal of interest in that prospect. It will be very interesting for him in the Kaik\u014Dura electorate explaining to people that M\u0101ori own the foreshore and seabed, particularly because the relevant M\u0101ori disagree about where the boundary is between the various iwi within his particular electorate. That is going to cause a particular problem in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cccb25e476024878aebf3932af4d7ea3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208365ec7341b4fe784331c3c1a2c6a2f\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, how shocking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a911f1c3044dd482af08a2d8733443\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is absolutely true, I have to tell the member, that there is a conflict over the rohe between Ng\u0101i Tahu and the north of the South Island iwi in terms of those boundaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EIndeed, what the member was reported as saying was that the only real issue now is what the conditions of access for P\u0101keh\u0101 to the foreshore and seabed will be. So is that what this review is going to be about, and will this bill be passed in this form with only relatively minor amendments? Is that what the brave National Party, after all its talk on the Foreshore and Seabed Act, is going to do, or will it allow the processes that I have secured for Ng\u0101ti Porou\u2014a very significant recognition of rights\u2014to proceed? Mr Flavell thinks they are not significant recognitions of rights. If they are more than what is in that bill, there will have to be something like freehold ownership, and if that is what National is saying the outcome of this review will be, it is going to be a very, very short-term Government indeed because that is not what middle New Zealand thought it was getting when it voted for a change of Government but no change in policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EFinally, there is the Education (National Standards of Literacy and Numeracy) Amendment Bill. What is going to happen to that? We are told that as long as parents are told by teachers how little Johnny is doing, even if little Johnny is failing\u2014all they have to do is tell them little Johnny is failing\u2014productivity is going to magically rise in the New Zealand economy within a matter of months, or at least in a very few number of years. So this bill is going to be crucial, and I want to know whether this bill is going to be passed in the form moved by Mrs Tolley, who, at one of her first briefings with officials, had to ask them: \u201CWhat does a vice-chancellor do?\u201D She asked this of education officials. She thought it had something to do with vice. She thought the vice-chancellor was the moral supervisor within a university. She asked what he or she does. We want to know whether this bill is going to be passed, and, if so, in what form. On that note we are happy to support the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022b51d66ac00fa49da8aad863ad2ae54cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b51d66ac00fa49da8aad863ad2ae54cb\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Musterer\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to make a short call on the motion concerning the reinstatement of business. In particular I want to raise an issue referred to by Mr Cullen\u2014that is, one of the pieces of legislation tabled in the House after the House rose. It did not have its first reading. It was the Ng\u0101 Rohe Moana o Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Ng\u0101ti Porou Bill\u2014a bill that concerns the negotiations that arise out of the foreshore and seabed legislation between the Crown and Ng\u0101ti Porou. A number of other iwi are intrinsically affected by this legislation. One is Te Aitanga-a-Hauiti. I remember them coming to the Fisheries and Other Sea-related Legislation Committee in 2004 where they talked about their mana moana being taken over by Ng\u0101ti Porou, how they were struggling to get any recognition of their mana whenua and their mana moana in negotiations with Ng\u0101ti Porou in the settlement legislation that was already under way, and how they were being locked out of any right to have a say over what was their rohe and their mana. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThat was one of the major issues that continued throughout the debate on the foreshore and seabed legislation: that those smaller iwi, those smaller hap\u016B, would continue to be locked out because the Government would negotiate with the big boys, like Ng\u0101ti Porou, and continue to lock out those smaller ones. Those larger iwi who were negotiating were themselves not respecting the rohe of these smaller and less well-resourced iwi and hap\u016B. Therefore, the situation was going to be exacerbated not only by the foreshore and seabed legislation, which would strip away their rights to take action in the court, but also because of the ability for those big iwi to negotiate directly with the Government. We have seen that exact result. That exactly has played out, as was feared at the time by those smaller iwi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThis legislation should be taken out of the reinstatement motion. It should not be continued with in this way, at least until after the review is done. The Green Party believes that it should be taken out because it is unfair legislation, and that the foreshore and seabed legislation should be repealed. What should be here instead is the repeal of that legislation. It should also be taken out, at least until the review is completed, because there is no concept yet as to what is likely to happen as a result of the review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI have made no secret about my extreme disappointment that the M\u0101ori Party failed to get the foreshore and seabed legislation repealed as part of its negotiations, and that it took ministerial positions in those negotiations, even though it failed to get the foreshore and seabed legislation repealed. I would have thought that that would be an absolute priority, and I am very disappointed it was not, as are the 4,000-odd people who wrote submissions on that legislation and who wanted it repealed, the 2,000 who wanted to be heard by the select committee but could not be heard, the majority of the 200 who were able to be heard\u2014and Tariana Turia was on that select committee; she heard those submissions and knows the strength of that\u2014and, as we saw, the 20,000 people at the front of Parliament on the day that that legislation was passed. So it is extremely disappointing that that has not happened so that this issue would itself be resolved, because then this legislation would not be necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI do not believe that the foreshore and seabed legislation gives hap\u016B or iwi any greater right to negotiate with Government. The settlement legislation is there to make that happen. But in this case, given that there is an apparent review of that legislation, there still remains the remote possibility of its being repealed. The continuance of this legislation is inappropriate at this time, and we continue to support those small iwi directly affected by this bill and all other iwi and other M\u0101ori who support the repeal of the foreshore legislation and the elimination of the confiscation of property rights that the foreshore and seabed legislation was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022 data-id=\u0022d28bdc8b124944c6b0b69954340715d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d28bdc8b124944c6b0b69954340715d2\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to address a couple of questions to the Leader of the House in respect of the Government motion under debate. In particular, I would like to ask why the Government has decided to carry forward the Education (Establishment of Universities) Amendment Bill, which, as I recall, is in the name of a former New Zealand First member of Parliament. I recall that it was voted against by all members of the Education and Science Committee, except for the New Zealand First member of that committee. Noting that New Zealand First is no longer able to be with us, it seems to me that there is not really a case for proceeding with that bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EI note also that the purpose of the legislation is to allow for the possibility of there being more than eight vice-chancellors in the country. I let the Minister of Education know\u2014because the language is, of course, a little confusing\u2014that \u201Cchancellor\u201D actually means Minister of Finance, the \u201Cpro-chancellor\u201D is the private sector helper who is to come in to do a line by line analysis of all of the budget of the Government, the \u201Cvice-chancellor\u201D is the Associate Minister of Finance, and the \u201Cpro vice-chancellor\u201D is the little private sector helper whom the Associate Minister of Finance may want to bring in. I hope that makes it clearer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EOver the page I notice that the Serious Fraud Office (Abolition and Transitional Provisions) Bill has been carried forward. Only 2 hours ago the Prime Minister of the land told us that the Serious Fraud Office would continue, yet the Serious Fraud Office abolition bill has been allowed to go forward. Why would the Government take that decision? I note the Leader of the House\u2019s comments that Ministers may take a fresh look at legislation and decide not to proceed with it on a case by case basis. But here is a case that is very straightforward, because the Prime Minister has told this House that there will be a Serious Fraud Office and therefore to abolish it will not be necessary. But we have a Serious Fraud Office abolition bill in front of us, which tells me that either the Government did not look very carefully at this list or the Prime Minister of the land got it wrong. I would like some assistance on that, if the Leader of the House can help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a297104b49564f8c9ef91e5f7e005863\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a297104b49564f8c9ef91e5f7e005863\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002257d1e9f6d2be411bb9f62a9b967f47ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257d1e9f6d2be411bb9f62a9b967f47ac\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I am very rarely speechless on occasions like this\u2014very, very rarely speechless. But the idea that a Government, when serious questions have been asked\u2014some of them are very serious questions\u2014has not made a single attempt to reply and has then moved the closure motion, is a continuation of the ineptness that we have seen right from the beginning, especially from the Leader of the House. We have seen today the opportunity to pass this motion in, probably, 30 seconds, and I think the Opposition could have got some criticism for not properly scrutinising it in the way that is occurring now, but we certainly want to do that over the next 2 or 3 hours as we work our way through it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003ESome bills in this motion are particularly important, and I am very surprised that the Government is continuing them in their current form. Without wanting to bring you into the debate, Mr Speaker, I would have thought that the Government would be better briefed in the immigration area\u2014around the Immigration Bill and its intentions with regard to that\u2014and that it would be able to give us a clear steer on its views. That is something National was previously able to do, with a very able spokesperson in the immigration area, but the new Minister is clearly, clearly not up to speed and prepared to comment at this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EAs for the Electoral Finance Amendment Bill, I thought the Government had signalled an intention to introduce legislation in this area. I think the Prime Minister, somewhere in his speech, or maybe the Speech from the Throne\u2014both of them were rambling, badly written affairs, but on one of those two occasions\u2014indicated the intention of the Government to bring in electoral finance repeal legislation. So why are we being asked here by Mr Brownlee to put on the Order Paper something that he knows is not going to progress, that he does not want to progress, and on which there would not have been any opposition from this side of the House if it had been left out of the list? If it had been left out, no one on this side of the House would have been too concerned about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI am interested in the position of the member for Taup\u014D. Does the new member for Taup\u014D support the Conservation (Protection of Trout as a Non-commercial Species) Amendment Bill? Yes or no\u2014we will take a yes or no answer. The member would not lose her virginity by saying yes or no; she would still be a maiden. No, the member for Taup\u014D has no view on the trout issue, and the Taup\u014D newspapers will be very interested in that. The Taup\u014D newspapers will be very interested in the fact that that member, who is somewhat of a fraud given the photos she put on her billboards, has no view on that issue at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThere are some other issues\u2014for example, the Franklin District Council (Contribution to Funding of Museums) Amendment Bill. I understand there is a new member in that area as well, and we would like to be told that member\u2019s opinion. We would like to know the member\u2019s opinion as to\u2014[Interruption]\u2014No, no, it is Franklin, I say to Mr Brownlee, not Frankton. There is a difference between the two places: one is in Auckland, and one is in Hamilton. Mr Brownlee may be a Christchurch member, but there is no reason for him to be ignorant in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThere are two bills relating to marine reserves\u2014very, very contentious legislation. My friend the previous Minister of Conservation found that marine reserves were not the easiest thing to progress; they required a lot of consultation and a lot of discussion. But are these the bills that the Government wants to be put on the Order Paper to progress? Mr Brownlee says they are, but my understanding is that quite a few of his fellow Ministers do not think they should be there at all, and that they certainly think the time of the House should not be spent on debating this motion, which is something that could have been sorted out before the House went into urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe Protected Disclosures Amendment Bill addresses the question of whistleblowers. Again it is important legislation and will be controversial, with a lot of debate. But is that the stuff that is core to the Government\u2019s business and vital in terms of its 100-day agenda, or even something that needs to be on its agenda at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfce2eec827e4dcbb9f0fe2e84773eb9\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a lot of whistleblowing going on now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae12f44a1cd548e38bc0b58b0e7b372c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: There is a lot of whistleblowing. We had the whistle being blown on the Minister of Education, who asked what a vice-chancellor was. For goodness\u2019 sake\u2014a Minister of Education who asked what a vice-chancellor did! It is just unbelievable that the Governor-General would give a warrant to a person who is so ignorant in that area. I would have thought that was a case where the Governor-General could send the advice back for another opinion. I am sure former Ministers of Education\u2014there are at least three of us in this corner, and four of us if we count the tertiary education area\u2014would never have contemplated having to ask a question like that, which is very relevant, of course, to the bill that was formerly in the name of Mr Donnelly and that no one appears to want other than Mr Brownlee, who, under urgency that is heading into days and nights, wants us to debate whether the Education (Establishment of Universities of Technology) Amendment Bill should be something that we focus on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThere are some other important bills. I am sure my friend Mr Cosgrove will be very interested in the view of the National Party on the Building Amendment Bill (No 2). The members of that party made a lot of noise about it when they were in Opposition. It would be good to hear Rodney Hide say whether he thinks it is a proper vehicle for his reforms in that regulatory area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7cfe4374eb0400a905505cf3855b7bd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: The problem is, they\u2019re all dwangs and no studs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248f06717b85748b5838d62f614dc3a21\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think the comment Dr Cullen has made, which will get into the record, is something I could not possibly say, but I am sure that he will. Do we have an opinion from Rodney Hide or Tariana Turia on these matters? They are Ministers, they should be on top of these issues, and they are clearly not. Clearly those people were consulted. I am absolutely certain that if there had been proper consultation on this issue with the M\u0101ori Party, this list would be considerably different. And that is just another example of the M\u0101ori Party being stepped on, walked over\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbd4b516744f4f288fa30ff42c5cafe4\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Mana-enhancing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264b46ca189ea43f7a42d25da8610e861\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is hardly mana-enhancing not to be consulted in this area\u2014not mana-enhancing, at all. But then, a lot of things that this Government is proposing to do with the support of the M\u0101ori Party are designed to hurt M\u0101ori\u2014to hurt people at the bottom of the heap. Those members were just so keen to get into Government, and so keen to get the big cars to drive them back and forth between Wellington and Wanganui that they did not care what they were signing up to. The generous approach would be to say they did not know what they were signing up to. The less generous approach would be to say they knew what they were signing up to, but did not care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u00227d2612ff4ce247569a5072ed0d246770\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d2612ff4ce247569a5072ed0d246770\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E This motion is important because it proposes to carry over a wide range of bills that were before the House, some of which are extremely important. The Opposition would like clarification from the Government on several of them that appear to have been impinged upon by matters announced in the Speech from the Throne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EOne bill\u2014and I will relate it to another part of the motion on the Order Paper\u2014is the Climate Change (Transport Funding) Bill. We seek clarification as to whether that bill will proceed, given the proposal to set up a separate select committee to revisit, I understand\u2014contrary to the motion that appears on the Order Paper\u2014the science of climate change in order to establish whether it is really happening. Commentators around the world will be waiting with bated breath to hear the conclusions that Mr Hide and others come to about whether the planet is actually warming. But, pending that outcome, will that bill proceed? It is a very important question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe Energy Efficiency and Conservation Amendment Bill is a bill integrally related to the proposal of the previous Government, along with our colleagues from the Green Party, to invest a billion dollars in improving the energy efficiency of our homes. Very interestingly, the Business Council for Sustainable Development analysed that idea and said there was about a 4:1 return on that investment. If I recall correctly, around $4.3 billion of return could be accounted for from the $1 billion of investment in improving the thermal dynamics of our homes. So will that bill proceed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe Immigration Bill, Mr Speaker, is one that I know you have supported in your past roles and know well, and, as you know, it is very important legislation that commands bipartisan support and has been in gestation for some while. We hope that that bill will proceed apace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EOf some interest to me in my former role was the Public Health Bill. It is landmark legislation, a once-in-30-years rewrite, and it has been the subject of extensive consultation. It really is important that the new Government comes clean here. There was much debate on the non-communicable diseases provisions and the ability, over time and subject to due process, to set standards for non-communicable diseases and, in particular, to target the obesity epidemic, which is rife in our communities. What is the new Government going to do with that bill? Will it carry it over? Is it going to amend it? What price has been paid for the support of the fast-food and big-sugar industries? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b3314b28661454bb2e894dcc4658bc4\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Gerry will know about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226406405ba95f46ebbf3f924d726936bc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure Gerry will know about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThere is the Therapeutic Products and Medicines Bill. When National was in Opposition it was responsible for one of the greatest double-crosses in my time in Parliament. Having at one point indicated that it would support a trans-Tasman approach to the regulation of therapeutic goods, it finally said that it would not. So we have a bill in the motion on the Order Paper whose future needs clarifying. The existing legislative base is some 30 years old, and is in dire need of an update. If that bill is not to proceed, what, then, will happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThere is the Regulatory Improvement Bill. This really gives a very clear picture to the public of the very busy agenda that was being run by the former Government. It was a surprise to some to hear in the Speech from the Throne that regulatory improvement, or cutting unnecessary red tape, is somehow a new idea that just arose in a road to Damascus sort of way. I acknowledge the work of the member for Epsom in co-sponsoring and contributing to that bill. It was worked out across this House and contains many provisions that all members would agree to. There are times when we need strong regulations, but there is no point in having regulation for its own sake, and unnecessary red tape would be opposed by members across the House. If this bill is to proceed, what, then, was the content of the Speech from the Throne on this issue about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe Minimum Wage and Remuneration Amendment Bill will be of interest to working New Zealanders. In the previous decade of a National-led Government, the minimum wage was raised by some 70c. That was about 7c per annum. It was an insult to working New Zealanders and far less than the rate of inflation. Will the Government carry over this latest increase to the minimum wage? One hopes that it will, because we know that, even on $12.75 an hour, many New Zealanders are struggling. Will Government members continue the record of the current Opposition in continuing to increase minimum wages by a substantial margin, year on year? These are important questions to which New Zealanders deserve answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI could go on, but I will not, in view of the time. I think this small sample of the bills that are in the motion on the Order Paper is sufficient\u2014[Interruption]\u2014well, it will be rather a long conclusion, then\u2014to show New Zealanders that life did not start on 8 November, and that good ideas in Government did not just come down as manna from heaven, albeit they have been put forward this morning by our highly esteemed Governor-General. Much good work was going on, which brings us to the point that the platform that the current Government inherited from the outgoing Government was one of the soundest in the Western World. I particularly wish to acknowledge the outgoing Minister of Finance, the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, who left New Zealand with roughly half the gross debt per GDP that we had inherited from the previous Government\u2014from 35 percent down to 17 percent. Of course, that will come up after the dinner break, when we consider the scurrilous taxation bill. What exactly are the projections for that debt going forward? Will they go all the way back to 35 percent, where they were the last time we hauled those members\u2019 collective butts out of the mire? That is what New Zealanders want to know. Will those members turbocharge debt levels? Will it be mana-enhancing for New Zealanders to be so far in the shtook? That is what we want to know, ladies and gentlemen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWhat will happen to this minimum wage bill, what will happen to this taxation bill, and how can the new Government, in the face of this comprehensive panoply of work, create the impression that somehow all things begin anew, that somehow all good things came along on the campaign trail, like some road to Damascus experience? What did those members promise New Zealanders? They promised New Zealanders that every good thing in the motion on the Order Paper will continue; that everything from the previous Government that they want will remain in place, just with a new face hopping from cloud to cloud, as I believe some people described it. Well, it will not take long for New Zealanders to realise that that hope is a faint one. It will not take long for the sheep\u2019s clothing to slip from the wolf\u2014I would say about 5 minutes after the dinner break. It will not take long before we get the first hints of the true agenda. Was it not interesting that the Speech from the Throne did not mention the 90-day sacking bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277d5d21489db4803a197137234458d66\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Why was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220424ff2652bb48fdaa80e13ec06cdedc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Why was that bill not front and centre? Why was the issue of employment relations not on the list? I am sure that Rodney Hide proposed it. Why did it get dropped from the Speech from the Throne? I ask why it is not on the 100-day agenda, but somehow it has occupied the first day of business in this House. Is it a case of favours to be repaid? Is it constituencies to be recognised? Is it a forewarning of things to come from this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ELadies and gentlemen, I commend the motion on the Order Paper to public attention for two reasons. It shows the solid programme of work that this incoming Government has inherited. It shows the strong state of the economy, which has been able to fund the minimum wage increase, the business tax reductions, and the investment in home rebuilding and insulation\u2014all of those good things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022 data-id=\u0022d79a1c8555264b7aba619f513839049b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d79a1c8555264b7aba619f513839049b\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (Whip\u2014M\u0101ori Party:\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker, \u0101, kia ora t\u0101tou e te Whare. Ko t\u0101ku noa ake he tautoko i ng\u0101 mihi ki a koe e te Kaihaut\u016B o te Whare. I mihia koe e t\u014D m\u0101tou kaihaut\u016B a Pita Sharples, ko t\u0101ku he tautoko ake. Ka mutu, ka huri ng\u0101 whakaaro ki te hunga kua ngaro. Waiho r\u0101tou kia moe. Anei te hunga ora e hui nei i t\u0113nei p\u014D, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora tatou. Ko t\u0101ku paku w\u0101hanga nei e te Kaihaut\u016B he mihi ki ng\u0101 mema M\u0101ori hou kua tae mai ki roto i ng\u0101 pakitara o te Whare. Ka mihi ki ng\u0101 maunga, ka mihi ki ng\u0101 awa. Kai mahue ake t\u0113tahi me p\u0113nei rawa te k\u014Drero, e te iti, e te rahi kua tau mai, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker, and to us, the House. I want to simply endorse the tributes to you, Mr Speaker of the House. Our leader Dr Pita Sharples acknowledged you, and I support it. Further to that, thoughts turn to those who have passed away. Let them rest there. Gathered here tonight are the living, so greetings to you and to us. A small part for me is to acknowledge the presence of new M\u0101ori members within the confines of the House. I acknowledge the mountains and rivers. In case someone is left out, let me say to the meek and the mighty who have arrived here, greetings to you, greetings to you, and greetings to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is pleased to support Government motion No. 4 to reinstate an enormous amount of work\u2014a huge programme of legislation to be carried over to this Parliament. We are genuinely pleased that the work programme is crammed full of important issues to occupy this House of Representatives. There are a number of significant matters that we seek to advance and progress during this term of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EWithin the M\u0101ori Affairs portfolio there are four M\u0101ori Affairs bills for consideration. The bills of immediate priority are the M\u0101ori Trustee Amendment Bill and the Whakarewarewa and Roto-a-Tamaheke Vesting Bill. These are both areas that are of great interest to my constituency. The M\u0101ori Trustee Amendment Bill is designed with the aim of creating a stand-alone entity, and we think that is a pretty good idea. However, there is still more work to be done. The other priority is the intention to progress the legislation vesting Whakarewarewa Valley land and the Roto-a-Tamaheke reserve. These are issues of considerable interest to T\u016Bhourangi Ng\u0101ti W\u0101hiao and Ng\u0101ti Whakaue tribal nations of the Te Arawa confederation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EWe are obviously keen to advance the legislation to progress the Port Nicholson Block (Taranaki Wh\u0101nui ki Te Upoko o Te Ika) Claims Settlement Bill. There is considerable interest, of course, in progressing the Waikato-Tainui Raupatu Claims (Waikato River) Settlement Bill, particularly in view of the interest this legislation will have in regard to the wider issues of water ownership and claims by various iwi. To that end, I acknowledge Dr Cullen for his work as the previous Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations and the work he did in advancing claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EI want to make particular reference to the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill and the Nga Rohe Moana o Nga Hapu o Ngati Porou Bill. We came under attack from the Opposition prior to the dinner break, so I want to make a few things clear. The Foreshore and Seabed Act of 2004\u2014if members did not know\u2014remains a festering sore in the hearts and minds of tangata whenua throughout the motu. Indeed, it was the issue on which our party was established, and the issue on which 40,000 New Zealanders marched to Parliament only to be greeted by a Government that treated these people with an element of disdain. It is an issue that still continues to motivate our artists and our writers to speak out about the injustice dealt to M\u0101ori on that day; injustices that kapahaka teams in competition throughout the country still immortalise on stage; injustices that our young generation is speaking out about in the Ng\u0101 Manu K\u014Drero Speech Competitions to those who will listen. E hoa m\u0101, do not worry, it is not going away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003ESome members of the Opposition seem to want to chuckle and criticise this notion of mana enhancement. For the benefit of members, mana enhancement is recognising that another party has a valid point of view\u2014a different point of view. M\u0101ori Marsden described three broad interpretations of the notion of mana: mana atua, God-given power; mana t\u016Bpuna, power from the ancestors; and mana t\u0101ngata, the authority derived from personal attributes. When mana whenua took the initiative to h\u012Bkoi in opposition to the Foreshore and Seabed Bill, there was much at stake. The least that the Government could have done was to listen. Instead, and unfortunately to their shame, their leader chose Shrek and the rest is history, as you know. That is not a concept of mana enhancement that the M\u0101ori Party wishes to be a part of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EI want to put on record that the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill is still, very much, significant legislation on the Order Paper. This bill is about a due process for M\u0101ori to verify ownership of the foreshore and seabed, the principal of equality before the law, and righting injustice. It is also about principle, leadership and property rights. It is a bill that arose out of a decision made on 20 June 2003, when the Labour Government announced that steps would be taken to ensure absolute Crown ownership of sea and land not privately owned. It claimed to do this in the interests of all New Zealanders, yet \u201CNew Zealanders\u201D excluded tangata whenua. Our bill\u2014the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill\u2014provides us with the desperately needed space in our nation to truly open up the debate, to listen to each other, and to recreate equitable access to justice. Talking together is vital to our progress as a nation. Hearing our different views is the way forward in leading us to a better nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThat, e hoa m\u0101, is precisely what happened in negotiating the relationship in the confidence and supply arrangements; that is, a commitment to review the Foreshore and Seabed Act. As a previous speaker, Dr Cullen, made an allegation that the M\u0101ori Party had failed to progress the repeal bill in the last Parliament, I want to set the record straight. The Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill was selected for debate on 12 October 2006. Towards the end of 2006 my colleague Tariana Turia was invited to speak at an international conference on the day that the bill was scheduled to come up for its first reading. A request was made for leave to reschedule the bill at the next available appointment. That timeslot was never to appear. Each fortnight we would watch with amazing regularity as somehow our bill would slip further down the Order Paper, and who ran the Order Paper? The Labour Government. Who slowed the bill down? The Labour Government. One has to wonder why the control of graffiti in Manukau, the vesting of Lancaster Park in Christchurch, the Bishop Suter Art Gallery in Nelson and the Auckland Domain tennis courts were accorded greater importance than the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill, as the bill kept getting shafted to the bottom of the pile. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThat is not to say by any means that these matters I just mentioned were not important. Every issue that comes to Parliament has a special relevance to its community, but our curiosity as a nation must surely be adjusted and we have to wonder why it is that the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill kept being relegated to low priority. In the light of this experience can I say how positive it has been to be invited to participate in a Government that has not been afraid to face the tough issues. Mana enhancement allows us to work together through differences, rather than shut the door. As part of working through differences, we welcome the opportunity to review the application of the legislation to ascertain whether it adequately maintains and enhances mana whenua. It is a rather dramatic turnaround of events that no one could have predicted; from continually sliding down the Order Paper and priorities in one Government to now working together with the Government to prepare agreed terms of reference for review by 28 February 2009. That is mana-enhancing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EIf repeal is necessary, the Government will ensure that there is appropriate protection in place to ensure that all New Zealanders enjoy access to the foreshore and seabed through existing and potentially new legislation. That is mana-enhancing. I want to assure the member for the Greens Metiria Turei that the repeal of the Foreshore and Seabed Act is still a very firm fixture in an ongoing number of our priorities, and we look forward to their support as we work through the review. The policies of injustice do not fade away over time. They exist, they persist, and they remain until rectified, and we intend to follow that through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EWe are seeking the goodwill and courage of Parliament to open up an opportunity for the nation to debate a fundamental issue of human rights, property rights, and access to justice. We celebrate the significant achievement we have made in negotiating an agreement in which the review of the Foreshore and Seabed Act is up front\u2014an absolute priority. Our people have shown in the past 168 years that they respect the courts of this land, because they have taken, and continue to take, their land rights issues through this process. It is a sad day for this country when our property rights\u2019 access to justice through due process is denied by Parliament. We have the chance to right the wrongs. We sincerely and genuinely believe that the agreement we have achieved with the National Government will allow us to succeed in the outcomes that we seek as a nation. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022 data-id=\u00225a65b10d2bae4105a7771d5f58e35dd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a65b10d2bae4105a7771d5f58e35dd7\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I too take this opportunity to congratulate you on your appointment to your position in this House, and to congratulate your deputy and assistants. We look forward to your impartiality in navigating through the debates yet to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EIn taking a brief call on this carry-over motion in relation to the business of the House, I make a number of comments. Firstly, I am pleased that the carry-over motion includes a number of Treaty settlement bills, because I know that the progress made by Dr Michael Cullen in that regard has received widespread support amongst iwi throughout the country and that they would like to see those bills progressed. I am also pleased that that was referred to by Mr Key in the Speech from the Throne. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EI also wish to highlight an area that may need some clarification by the Government in regard to the Waka Umanga (M\u0101ori Corporations) Bill. When that bill was going through the House, it was objected to by both National and the M\u0101ori Party. I think it would be of interest to a number of members in the House for those parties to clarify their position on the bill, because if the fund that was proposed to be set up as a development fund to aid and assist M\u0101ori, going forward, was to be clawed back by, perhaps, M\u0101ori affairs or by National Government interests for other purposes, that would be a matter of great interest to members, and certainly to members of the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EI will briefly allude to the comments made on the foreshore and seabed issue. We have learnt from minority parties that no amount of dancing on a pinhead can get away from the fact that the reason why the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill was deferred in the last Parliament was that it was at the request of the M\u0101ori Party. No amount of posturing in the House and setting some history to that matter can get away from the fact that at the request of the M\u0101ori Party, the bill was deferred. Indeed, the bill was not supported by National in Opposition at the time. It will be very interesting in Parliament, going forward, to see whether the Government intends to pick up that bill, or whether it intends to implement the Nga Rohe Moana o Nga Hapu o Ngati Porou Bill, which represents an agreement reached with iwi under the existing legislation aimed at protecting the interests and rights of iwi in the foreshore and seabed. Ng\u0101ti Porou too would be very interested if the Government intended to pull away from that. So although points have been made by the M\u0101ori Party that it is the independent voice of M\u0101ori in this House, that is contrary to the position put by iwi on that bill that they are the Treaty partner, that they see some gains in protecting and preserving their customary interests under the bill, and that the bill must go forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003ELet us also be really clear, as the M\u0101ori Party has made a point of stating its position on the bill, that it has the ability, under this ACT, National, and M\u0101ori Party agreement, to negotiate some support for its repeal bill if it believes so strongly in it. The Maori Party is obviously unable to do that, so no amount of posturing in the House can get away from the fact that there is no support for the repeal of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EWe too would support a review of the foreshore and seabed legislation, because we see iwi taking up the opportunity to reach agreements that protect their customary rights under the existing legislation, and only time will tell whether the positive implementation of legislation in this area will assert rights for M\u0101ori. So although the M\u0101ori Party may dance on a pinhead on the issue of the foreshore and seabed, quite clearly it is up to this National Government to state where it is putting its stake in the sand on that issue. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce292e4a5a314e5bb71bb99f61511984\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce292e4a5a314e5bb71bb99f61511984\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has chosen to put the reinstatement motion into the urgency motion, thereby inviting a much higher level of scrutiny by the Opposition parties than would ordinarily be the case on a procedural motion such as this. The point the Labour Party has been making is that we are looking for some rationale for how these bills have been chosen to be part of a reinstatement motion. I think it is important that we have the opportunity to go through that, and to make sure that the work of this Parliament, when it is set out by way of this motion, is appropriately done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EBefore I get on to the substance of my contribution, I want to pick up on some of the points made by the M\u0101ori Party whip, Te Ururoa Flavell. He made a number of assertions\u2014many of them derogatory towards the Labour Party\u2014and I think it is important that we set the record straight. The most important thing about the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill that sits as part of this reinstatement motion is that it is a member\u2019s bill in the name of the Hon Tariana Turia, who now of course is a National Government Minister\u2014the bill will have to pass into the name of a non-member of the executive. But the bill is a member\u2019s bill. It sat on the Order Paper as a members\u2019 order of the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003ESo when Te Ururoa Flavell said that the Labour Government controlled when that bill came up he was absolutely 100 percent wrong. Every second Wednesday the members\u2019 orders of the day are entirely within the purview of members of the House. Every single bill that he mentioned as coming in above Tariana Turia\u2019s bill came in as a members\u2019 order of the day. It was not within the purview of the Government, and I think it was very unfair of him to imply that somehow Labour played a role in the priority given to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EThe reason the bill kept being pushed down the Order Paper was that the member in charge of the bill, the Hon Tariana Turia, continually deferred the bill from coming up for debate. Once the bill had been deferred, other bills went in front of it on that day, which is how parliamentary procedure works. Te Ururoa Flavell shakes his head, but the records of the Business Committee will show that the reason that bill was never voted for by the previous Parliament was that the M\u0101ori Party chose not to have it debated on the floor of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EI understand why the M\u0101ori Party chose that. The reason the M\u0101ori Party chose not to have the bill debated on the floor of the House and brought to a vote was that it knew it would have lost that vote. The reason it would have lost the vote is that John Key, when he became the Leader of the Opposition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022059ca444b0724611a80238e89509aad7\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: But you would have voted against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278afdbea4cec480b9236164042c357e8\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014gave the Hon Pita Sharples and the Hon Tariana Turia the impression that as the new leader, after Don Brash had gone, he was prepared to support the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill. The M\u0101ori Party co-leaders acted on that premise, and it was not until the last minute, when John Key flip-flopped on that and refused to support the bill, that the M\u0101ori Party then decided to deny it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EI heard the member for Te Tai Tokerau, Hone Harawira, call out defiantly that Labour was going to vote against the bill, anyway. He misses one important point: Labour was a minority Government. If National had supported the M\u0101ori Party along with the Green Party, and if other parties like ACT had supported the repeal, it would have got the vote in the last Parliament. The reason the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill was never passed was that the National Party double-dealt the M\u0101ori Party. That is why I wanted to raise that matter in rebuttal to Te Ururoa Flavell, because when he talks about the mana-enhancing agreement, let me be clear. The Labour Party believes that there can be mana-enhancing agreements, but we find it a little bit rich to be told about mana atua, mana t\u016Bpuna, and mana t\u0101ngata, and then be told that the evidence of this mana enhancement is to abstain from voting in Parliament. I find it hard to believe that it is a mana atua arrangement when one\u2019s vote is to abstain behind the National Party, so let us not have that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EWhen that was going on, the National members were all in support of what Te Ururoa Flavell was saying. I called out earlier to the Attorney-General, the Hon Chris Finlayson, and I asked: \u201CWhat about one standard of citizenship?\u201D, because that used to be how most of the existing National MPs were elected. They were elected on the back of one standard of citizenship, which was an anti-M\u0101ori position. Chris Finlayson smiled and said: \u201CThat was ages ago.\u201D Only 2 weeks with a ministerial warrant, and the National MPs have already forgotten why they are there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EBut I want to come to the reinstatement motion, because a lot of bills have been chosen to go into this motion but we cannot see the rationale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EWe were told today in the Speech from the Throne that the past 10 years was a decade of missed opportunities, yet everything on the Order Paper is going to be what the Labour-led Government was proposing in office. The National Government is picking up every single bill that Labour had, even though National has said it was a decade of missed opportunities\u2014and that, of course, misses the point that every party policy on which it campaigned on November 8 was a Labour policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003ELet us go through some of the bills for which we are asking for a rationale from the Leader of the House and his key supporters sitting over there. The first is the Climate Change (Transport Funding) Bill. This bill does not need to be picked up by the Government, because the New Zealand Government is going to have a committee to decide whether climate change exists, and the whole world is going to stop and wait while the New Zealand Parliament, and the 3 percent ACT Party that is driving this, decides whether the world is going to learn whether there is global warming induced by humans. I cannot see why this bill is needed when the world is waiting for the bright lights of the National-led Government in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EThen there is the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill. I cannot understand why the Government is picking this bill up, because we were always told that the Electoral Integrity Act was a terrible control mechanism by political parties. The only reason I can think that the Government is picking this up is that it does not believe it can hold all the members inside the National caucus during this term of Parliament. I believe that is why the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill is getting a second wave of life out of the National Party. When we start to go through some of the disappointed people, we can understand why that might be. Tau Henare is in the House tonight purely to make sure the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill is not picked up, because he is ready to walk. He is ready to make the big h\u012Bkoi over to the M\u0101ori Party, where he believes his enormous talents\u2014self-described\u2014will be recognised as a consequence of the Government formation. He will cross the floor tonight against this reinstatement motion to make sure the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill is not picked up. I ask who else will not be in the caucus. Well, I see David Bennett in the House. Now, how David Bennett is not on the front bench\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d40526793714aa4a205066d3d584d48\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f32704155d34f5a9103aab5f7781ad6\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Members ask who, but that is very unfair. He is a very distinguished member who should have been included in the executive, because he made big promises about transport in the Waikato area. In fact, he got his figures wrong by $400 million, but that will not bother the Minister of Finance\u2014he is constantly getting the numbers wrong in this respect. He should have been included, and I think the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill is aimed at him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EIt is hard to believe that Allan Peachey was not included as a member of the executive. He wrote a book about education, and whether Anne Tolley has even read a book about education remains to be debated. Allan Peachey wrote one, and that shows that he may be looking for this bill. We want a rationale from Government members about why this should be. And the Government whips\u2014I ask why the Government whips were not put into LTDs and driven around Wellington at the present time. They are constantly telling us what talented parliamentarians they are. I ask why they were left out of the executive. I think this bill is a control mechanism by the Government to try to make sure it can keep control of its parties. I want to know why that bill is being introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EI want to know why the Oaths Modernisation Bill is part of this reinstatement motion. We heard Hone Harawira\u2019s oath that he authored yesterday, and I think this bill is being put in here to make sure that he can give effect to what he was saying in regard to his swearing in yesterday. There are other bills on which I want to know whether local members of Parliament have been consulted. I see the member of Parliament for Palmerston North in the Chamber tonight, my friend Iain Lees-Galloway. I ask whether he was consulted on the Palmerston North Showgrounds Act Repeal Bill. I suspect he was not consulted on this bill, and he is the person with the local knowledge to know whether the new Parliament should cover that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EThen there is the Public Health Bill. This is of enormous interest to the Government, because this is a bill that Jackie Blue\u2014I believe\u2014and Jo Goodhew raised all sorts of matters about in the last Parliament, because they were concerned about hairdressers. If I remember, that was the big issue for them before the election, and covered by the Public Health Bill. That was obviously a confidence motion for the Government in its caucus, and that should be covered by that point. I know that the Public Health Bill with regard to hairdressers will be of enormous interest to the Minister of Defence at the present time, because Dr Wayne Mapp is sporting a slightly different appearance than he had before the election. He may well want to take an interest in that provision; it could be the real issue he wants to take care of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EThe Rail Network Bill is of enormous interest to the Labour Party, because of its commitment to public transport, and making sure that we get those issues and, particularly, the State-owned assets requirement of the rail network that we need to make sure New Zealand has a 21st century rail network. We have had no view from the National Government as to whether it is supporting KiwiRail. We have not heard a rationale for why that bill should be coming in. The previous Government was told by Bill English, now Minister of Finance and Deputy Prime Minister, that if we bought the railways back, a National Government would immediately sell it. So we are waiting to see whether the \u201Cfor sale\u201D sign will go up now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EThere are two other reports of select committees that I want to mention. The first is the report of the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation\u2014the Cullen fund. Of course, that was one of the missed opportunities of the decade\u2014apparently! However, that report formed a key part of the Speech from the Throne today in terms of the economic stimulus that the Government was mentioning it wanted to undertake. Secondly, I am very surprised the Government has picked up the report of the Commerce Committee in respect of New Zealand Post Ltd, because that report mentions in glowing terms the contribution of Kiwibank to the New Zealand Post Group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003ENow, Kiwibank is something that the Labour Party is very proud of having introduced, with Jim Anderton\u2019s Progressive party, to make sure that there was a banking option for all New Zealanders. Not one single branch of any bank anywhere in New Zealand has closed since Kiwibank started up, because we have made sure that we have been able to put together real choice for New Zealanders in the banking system, and that is part of the report of the Commerce Committee. I want to know from the National Party why it is picking that up, because we want to see those issues debated fully before we get onto the work of the forty-ninth Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u00220a503fe6ac8540d1b8e3ea0252fe77d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a503fe6ac8540d1b8e3ea0252fe77d1\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228726ede4f2ae4192b4bb08e133fff2de\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000970\u0022\u003EMotion to reinstate business agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022a42f6c748ea74608bb754aa7b32679d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a42f6c748ea74608bb754aa7b32679d1\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Look, I realise that the Hon Shane Jones is still grieving for not turning off all of our showers, but I think you should send a very clear message\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f054f8652a0d4d9795ef7e874d3212e6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. Points of order are meant to be terse and to do with order in this House. The member has not made it clear what the point of order is, and I am not sure his opening words had much to do with order. I will invite the honourable member to make it clear what his point of order is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d50c53c816674279be316ac0b2e13524\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I would like you to make it very clear to the Hon Shane Jones that we do not call out against another party when they are calling their vote, as happened. The votes are to be taken in silence, and certainly the sort of abuse that we heard from Shane Jones is totally unacceptable in this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248475b433f2a402890ba2b38bf8db7ae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What the honourable member has just said in his point of order is of course correct. I did not hear what transpired. If the Hon Shane Jones said anything for which he should withdraw and apologise, I invite him to do so, but not having heard it, it is difficult for me to rule that he should do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u0022630b88c8fb964311bd25433216c6edb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022630b88c8fb964311bd25433216c6edb5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think it was less to do with whether it was unparliamentary\u2014the language was not offensive in that way\u2014I think the member is drawing attention to the fact that votes are taken in silence, and critical remarks shouted across the Chamber are not part of the voting procedure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002218b181576e124524aab700040ed42496\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218b181576e124524aab700040ed42496\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E It is a very basic point of order. You had ruled on the point of order, and therefore my question to you is whether you should have heard the Hon Bill English after you had ruled. That was disputing your ruling, and not a good way for the Government to start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b0b3b389a9249e6935ad6f79f97b15d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is sufficient. I think the point that was originally raised by the Hon Rodney Hide was a perfectly valid point, even though I criticised the manner in which Mr Hide originally raised it, and it is an indisputable part of our Standing Orders that votes, when they are being taken by the Clerk, must be taken in silence. I ask all members to respect that Standing Order, and I am sure the Hon Shane Jones will do so in the future, as will all other members. I think we should leave the matter there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e506717aebba49f78c39e57be828b5b4\u0022\u003ETaxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a3bfb4ecaca54d7fa65a8c1608360f76\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u002227d6a982c2af45f2b42fd741131c07cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227d6a982c2af45f2b42fd741131c07cf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill be now read a first time. This is crucial legislation at a time when New Zealand has elected a new Government, the world economy is in turmoil, and New Zealand\u2019s economic outlook is more uncertain than it has been for several decades. There has been an extensive debate in New Zealand about taxes, tax levels, tax rates, and tax cuts. What has been clear in election year is that, essentially, the argument for lower taxes has been won, and won to the extent that the former Government introduced its own tax-cut package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThis bill will outline the changes in income tax rates and thresholds. The new independent earner credit for low and middle income New Zealanders is aimed at people earning between $24,000 and $44,000. The bill also includes changes to KiwiSaver, which National campaigned on, to make KiwiSaver more affordable, fair, and more durable, and I will come back to that. The bill also includes the repeal of the research and development tax credit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EI want to deal with one issue regarding the fiscal cost of this package. In the 2008 Budget the previous Government outlined a set of tax cuts. This package, including the recent change to KiwiSaver that was announced today, is fiscally neutral compared with the 2008 Budget. The cost of extra tax cuts has been offset by the other changes that are included in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EI want to pick out a couple of the features of the bill that will be important. The first is the independent earner tax credit. As anyone who has dealt with tax scales will know, lower income earners in New Zealand already pay quite a low rate of tax, and any shift in those low thresholds costs a lot, because a shift in a threshold that is $9,500 or $10,000 applies to taxpayers who earn $100,000 as much as it does to those who earn $20,000. The independent earner tax credit is a method by which individuals who earn lower incomes\u2014that is, from about the minimum wage of about $24,000 to about $44,000\u2014will receive an increment to their income equivalent to quite a significant shift in the tax thresholds, but in a way that targets the assistance to that group rather than passing it on to income earners at the high end of the income scale. About 630,000 people will qualify for this credit in the first year. It covers a group of people who, in 9 long and wasted years under Labour, received no tax reductions whatsoever, primarily because they did not have children. That is what happened in the last decade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe independent earner tax credit will not be paid to people who are receiving benefits, pensions, Working for Families tax credits, or national superannuation. I would point out that as a result of the tax changes national superannuitants will have quite a significant uplift in their income, and it will take some time for that particular message to filter through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe other significant change in this bill, apart from the tax cuts themselves, is related to KiwiSaver. It has been the view of the National Party that a long-term savings programme ought to have broad political support. It needs to be durable, it needs to be affordable, and it needs to be fair. The reality is that over the next 5 years or so, the fiscal capacity of the Government will be significantly less. KiwiSaver and its extensive range of subsidies were introduced when the Government was probably at the peak of the fiscal surpluses that it will see for maybe another decade, and certainly for the two decades before that. So those significant incentives were introduced at, probably, the highest point in Government finances that will be seen in a generation. It was National\u2019s view that they may prove not to be sustainable, and I think events in the last 6 months have borne out that judgment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003ESo we have made some changes to KiwiSaver that preserve the incentives that are paid into the savers\u2019 accounts and that make a number of other changes such as the abolition of the employer tax credit and the abolition of the member fee subsidy. The main change has been to reduce the minimum member contribution rate to 2 percent. We believe this will allow a good deal more New Zealanders to be able to stay in the scheme for a start when times are tough, and for many others to be able to enter the scheme because of the lower contribution rate. [Interruption] Well, Labour members had their chance in the election campaign; as far as I know they made no coherent case in respect of KiwiSaver, and that is one of the reasons they lost the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EWe are also abolishing the research and development tax credit. This is a decision that has been greeted with a little bit of commentary. The fact is that it was an expensive scheme that in our view was not well targeted, because many businesses that are already able to deduct 100 percent of their research and development expenditure were spending a great deal of time reclassifying existing expenditure so that they could get the deduction. [Interruption] I say to Dr Cullen that when he sees the mess that the previous Government has left in our fiscal track this will look like one of the more obvious and simpler decisions that the current Government will make. That is the backdrop against which this tax cut package ought to be seen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the fiscal outlook is showing at least a decade of ever-rising deficits and consistently rising public debt, and there is a number of reasons for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a371394c3dbf4957b0b8364edac7b29b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: So why cut taxes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270cec2939da044a7be9d11051481cb25\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: So the Opposition is now against the stimulus package? Opposition members are against it. They will have to make up their minds, because this is part of National\u2019s plan to get New Zealand through a recession and to lift our long-term economic prospects. The combination of the tax cuts that were passed by the previous Government, and these tax cuts, will over the next 2 years put about $7 billion into the economy. That will certainly help save some jobs, it will certainly help to create some more jobs to replace the thousands that are likely to be lost, and in combination with our plan to bring forward infrastructure, we believe we can protect New Zealanders from the sharpest edge of recession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EDespite this plan we cannot avoid the effects of recession, but we can make sure that our short-term decisions are consistent with the need to raise our economic prospects in the long term, and lower taxes certainly do that. This bill will help to put cash in peoples\u2019 pockets when they need it, when they can make their own choices about their own money, instead of being told what to do by the Government as to how to spend every dollar they have. It will, in the longer term, improve incentives, productivity, investment, and job creation in the New Zealand economy. That is why this legislation has such widespread public support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a10cbcbb7189496096ac4176351d716c\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228696f2db880746abbdf1fc93159e7492\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It does. People want to see these tax cuts. Of course there is the challenge to the previous Government to now vote against its own policy, because this is a tax package that incorporates significant amounts of the previous Government\u2019s policy. But we made a series of further decisions that take account of the reality of the economic outlook, because they are prudent and responsible but give New Zealanders the kind of hand-up they need when they face the most challenging economic outlook in a generation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd7b4edc10cc43b583ede10c1776d161\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd7b4edc10cc43b583ede10c1776d161\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Quite clearly the honeymoon is already over for those New Zealanders who thought they had voted for a kinder, gentler kind of National Government. This morning the Governor-General graciously read the Government\u2019s agenda-setting Speech from the Throne. The Government\u2019s overriding goal is to go for growth by turbocharging productivity, while at the same time protecting the most vulnerable! That, of course, reflected the lines recited by the National Party during the recent election campaign: \u201CVote for us\u2014none of the good stuff will change, but you will all be better off.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EAs a loyal Opposition we see our role as being to encourage that which is good for New Zealanders, and to oppose robustly that which is not. Today, on this first business day of this new House of the forty-ninth Parliament, New Zealand already has the opportunity to test whether National\u2019s rhetoric matches its reality. Patently and sadly, it does not. Badly designed tax cuts benefit upper and middle-income earners, while the losers are low-income families. National is undermining KiwiSaver at a time when the world is facing an unprecedented credit squeeze. Go figure! While targeting productivity and, supposedly, innovation, National guts the research and development tax credit that has almost universal support by people who actually design things, build things, and export things. Go figure! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe problem with this bill is essentially twofold. Firstly, equity: who gets what? This is Robin Hood in reverse\u2014taking from the poor to give to Bill English. But, perhaps even more important, it is design. There is no logical link between the measures contained in this rushed bill and the Government\u2019s own self-described priorities. It will not work. It will not contribute to growth and productivity. It is the wrong tool at the wrong time, for the wrong problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWhat will it cost? National\u2019s tax plan will cost about $12.3 billion, once we take into account the October tax cuts from Labour\u2019s plan that have already been instituted over 5 years. It is about the entire health or education budgets. Of course it is partly offset by the $3.5 billion that is being sucked away from KiwiSaver, or the $1.5 billion from our innovative firms. But, even so, due to the Government\u2019s self-confessed snafu around the contribution to KiwiSaver, it is not fiscally neutral. The extra $700 million has tipped it into the red. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThat is despite Treasury\u2019s advice that there is no problem to solve\u2014that the level of fiscal stimulus in Labour\u2019s earlier package was sufficient, given the level of borrowing and the international environment. It is timely, therefore, to consider Labour\u2019s economic legacy to New Zealand: the longest postwar expansion; real incomes up a quarter after inflation, over the decade; gross Government debt cut in half, from 35 percent to 17 percent; net debt in surplus for the first time since Sir Julius Vogel borrowed to build the railway system in the first place; $14 billion contributed to the Cullen fund; inflation at moderate levels and falling, allowing an official cash rate cut of 1.5 percent last week; and huge investment in infrastructure, roading, and rail, around ten times that invested by the previous National Government. That is not to mention the buy-backs of corporate failure, like Air New Zealand and KiwiRail, or promoting a New Zealand - owned Kiwibank. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ENational knows that things do not look good internationally. Last week Bill English issued a press release to announce that 2009\u2014shock, horror, probe!\u2014would be \u201Cchallenging\u201D. Yesterday John Key took time away from directing money markets on where the exchange rate should be to say that the forecasts do not look great. But that has not stopped the Government from launching tax cuts that are badly designed and a profligate waste of money that will only build up debt by borrowing to fund household consumption, rather than contributing to the drivers of productivity, which the Government says it is espousing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESo how far into debt is this going to drive us? The answer is that we simply do not know. The Government has not yet published the forward debt track projections. The Government knows what they are. My bet is they will take us all the way back to what we inherited in 1999. I would be surprised if they do not clip 35 percent again. The decade of prudence under Labour was gone on the first day of the new Government\u2019s profligacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESo who gets what? What about the equity of this package? National\u2019s tax plans state its true priorities. Rewarded are the highest paid, by getting the top marginal tax rate dropped from 39c to 37c in the dollar. But almost as important is the fact that someone on three quarters of a million gets $240 a week, whereas the average income earner gets about $2 a week. Even more important than that is the disadvantage to working families who are caught by the threshold changes that they do not get, which were in Labour\u2019s package. By 2011 anyone earning from $14,000 to $20,000 will be paying 21c in the dollar under National, but they would have been paying 12.5c under Labour. Those are hard-working families who are not being compensated in any way in this package. They are the real New Zealanders who are bringing up kids, in a recession, and are worried about their jobs, but they are being hit by this tax package. It is Robin Hood in reverse\u2014giving to the top income earners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EIt is a scandal. But more important, it is the truth of what National stands for. Forget the election rhetoric, forget the flimflam. On the first business day of the House the real agenda has surfaced. I thought the Government would have had a more decent pause, but on the first business day we see what it is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EJust to put into practical terms what this means for families, let us take under the Labour and National packages the two families who were mentioned in the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s briefs. Under the Labour plan, Meg and Jack, who are both 35, have two kids. Jack earns $45,000 and Meg earns $20,000. By 11 April they would have been $85 a week better off. This is an average family with two kids. Under National, its poster couple Dave and Diane have three kids. They are earning $30,000 and $50,000, around the same, and are receiving Working for Families. They are $26 a week better off, or roughly $60 worse off than they would have been under Labour. These are official Inland Revenue Department figures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESo let us be really clear about who is getting what. Ordinary working families are not getting anything, and top income earners are. Why are we not surprised? Does it help the economy? I am afraid not. It is a huge spend-up that will do nothing to address the underlying drivers of growth and innovation. It does not boost productivity. It guts the research and development tax credit. It is no wonder the manufacturers and exporters associations say that that credit was essential to level the playing field with Australia. This is from a Government that criticised us for the fact that people were crossing the ditch. In its first day the Government has gutted the competitive advantage of our most innovative firms that employ more, export more, and earn more on average, and grow faster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWhat is the sense in that? Will it boost savings or increase liquidity in the banking system? It will do quite the reverse. Stunning logic, is it not? When international banking is under threat and is having to give guarantees to get wholesale deposits into the system, the Government is undermining the best savings scheme ever designed in New Zealand\u2019s history. Are we surprised? No, we are not surprised, because the last time we free-funded superannuation, Muldoon came and took it away in his first year in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThis is d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu, ladies and gentlemen. I hate to say: \u201CWe told you so.\u201D, but we did tell you so. Unfortunately, we are all going to have to live with the consequences. It does not matter to us\u2014we are happy to serve as Her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition\u2014but it sure as hell matters to New Zealand families who are struggling and worrying about their jobs and about the household budget. Those are the people most at risk from this ill-conceived, inequitable, hurried, wolf-in-sheep\u2019s clothing, Robin Hood in reverse shambles of a tax plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022 data-id=\u00223892df8b2ded469bb11b71ebb3579bb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223892df8b2ded469bb11b71ebb3579bb4\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E From the time that the Business Tax Review announced in 2007 a cut in the corporate rate, effective from 1 April this year, to 30c in the dollar, it was inevitable that there would have to be substantial movement in the structure of the personal income tax scales. The measures that were contained in the Budget this year started us down that path. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EThe Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill does two things in that regard. Firstly, it takes us a step further along that path, by introducing a second set of changes with effect from 1 April next year; and, secondly, it also starts to address some of the issues raised in the briefing paper from the Inland Revenue Department, which noted that one of the consequences of the structure of our taxation system over the last few years had been, because of the high top marginal rate, an increasing tendency by high and upper middle income earners to seek to shelter their income through various devices, in order to limit their liability. It is important to see the types of changes that this bill makes to the personal income tax scales, because that starts the process of lessening the attractiveness to those income earners of the types of sheltering schemes that they have been involved in over the years. I say it starts the process, because it is by no means an end in itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EIn that regard, the objective is stated in the coalition agreement between the National Party and ACT that United Future\u2019s long-term goal is a 30c in the dollar corporate rate, a 30c in the dollar trust rate, and a 30c in the dollar top personal rate. That has to be what we now aspire to, in order to completely remove the anomalies that are currently within our taxation system. At that point we would probably need to look to an intermediate rate of 10 percent, and a rate of 20 percent at lesser levels of income, to make a top rate of 30 percent work. But that objective is not inconsistent with the approach contained in this bill, and it has to be where our tax structure is headed in the long term. The issue is not just about the integrity of the system in New Zealand, and already we have seen the example of our system starting to lack integrity. It is becoming complicated; it is becoming a disincentive for people. But the reality of getting a flat top rate of 30 percent actually starts to make it a much more internationally competitive system. That has to be the goal that we work to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EThe other part of this bill that is less attractive, and which I will not be supporting when it comes to a vote in the Committee stage, is Part 2, relating to the research and development tax credit. I think that the removal of that provision is a mistake, for all the sorts of reasons that I have heard various groups state. I think they are absolutely correct. It is important to note that the scheme actually took effect only from 1 April this year, so a massive claim against it is not likely until the end of the current revenue year, and that is actually protected by the provisions of this bill. So I do not see much point, long term, in the elimination of that scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EI also make the point that one of the incentives behind reducing our corporate tax rate, which, as I say, set off this process of taxation reform, was the need for competitiveness with Australia. One of the areas where Australia has a huge competitive advantage over New Zealand is the area of research and development. The tax credit that was introduced at least brought us to parity in that respect. In these days of a single trans-Tasman market and all of the initiatives that have been talked about in respect of that, I think it is a retrograde step to be getting rid of that credit at this stage. I think a far better step would be for all the Government\u2019s research and development, innovation, and enterprise policies to be subject to a significant review, to make sure that they meet the objectives that have been set for them. But when we look at that matter alongside the changes being made to personal taxes, I think we see that the bill, overall, does deserve support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EThis bill also brings in the confirmation of the annual tax rates for this year. It introduces the new independent earner rebate, and that deals with an issue that has been of concern for some time. It is available for those people who do not benefit from Working for Families or equivalent packages, but who see themselves as being in a disproportionately unfair position in respect of other taxpayers. It is the same sort of argument for single people that I might, in another forum, advance in respect of income splitting. There will be some complexities around the independent earner tax credit scheme, but I think they can be addressed, and we have had advice that that can be done adequately in the context of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EThe question of KiwiSaver is, I think, one that will be controversial in some areas, but I have never seen the changes that are being proposed as gutting the scheme or reducing its effectiveness. The fact that over 800,000 New Zealanders have already signed up for KiwiSaver, and the fact that compared with other saving schemes on the market at the moment, even in its revised form it still remains competitive and attractive, I think will ensure its future for a long time ahead. We are starting to see now the development of a voluntary savings culture in New Zealand\u2014something we have sought to achieve for the last 30 years, without success. I do not see the changes in this bill, given the momentum that there is in place already, as detrimentally affecting that to any great extent. I think we will need to address in due course the issue of whether KiwiSaver at some point should be converted from the currently voluntary savings scheme into a compulsory scheme, but that is another debate, for another day. I do not see these changes as affecting that issue one way or the other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283aff861022a47748fd1793f96deb39a\u0022\u003EThis bill is timely. I think it is appropriate that it be passed before Christmas, so that the changes that it intends with regard to personal tax changes can take effect from 1 April next year. That would then give us a three-stage package\u2014a four-stage package if we include the 1 October tax cuts this year\u2014coming in on 1 April 2009, 1 April 2010, and 1 April 2011. But even at that point, when the top marginal rate has come down to only 37 percent, a further reform programme will still be needed to make more substantial change, in order to continue to ensure the robustness of our taxation system. As I said when the previous Government\u2019s measures were introduced on Budget day this year, they were, in my view, a transitional step towards the type of change that I have spoken of. I see these changes tonight in a similar regard. They are good for New Zealanders. They will be welcomed by those who will benefit from them, and I am very happy to give them my support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022508c72904f004e019c2b51307e9c9651\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022508c72904f004e019c2b51307e9c9651\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill enacts the policy that the National Party released then tried to bury\u2014in terms of the details\u2014as fast as possible. National\u2019s tracking polling would have shown exactly the same result as ours showed. The one point in the campaign when National Party support started to fall was straight after it released its tax policy, and that was because the details were so unpopular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThis policy is a tax increase for low-income earners and low-income families. It is a reduction, in terms of incentives, for many people. It is a destruction, in terms of savings, for many people. It is an undermining of private sector research and development. It is a policy for a dumber society, with lower growth, lower productivity, and marginally lower tax rates\u2014and even those by not very much. It increases tax compared with the current law\u2014not current policy, but the current law. It increases tax on all low-income earners earning between $14,000 and $24,000 a year. I hope ACT votes for those tax increases. It means second-income earners in families. It means all beneficiaries with some additional work income. It means all superannuitants with some additional income, whether from savings or from employment. They will all face higher taxes under this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ESecondly, this policy increases tax for all low-income families with children that earn up to $44,000 a year, and for many middle-income families that earn up to as much as $80,000 or more a year. Why? Because they do not qualify for the independent tax credit. The example that Mr Goff gave this afternoon is absolutely right: a two-income family on $55,000\u2014one income of $33,000, one income of $22,000\u2014will lose $14 a week, or $730 a year, compared with the current tax scales for the next 3 years, which have already been legislated for. Indeed, a family with a combined income of up to close to $90,000 a year may lose under this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EIt reduces incentives. Economists tell us that what is important in terms of incentives is the marginal tax rate\u2014not the average tax rate, but the marginal tax rate. I have never agreed with them completely. But what does this bill do? It increases the marginal tax rate for people on between $14,000 and $20,000 a year, and for people on between $20,000 and $42,500 a year, it lowers it by 1 percent. That is going to cause a mass outbreak of productivity increases across the country! For those on between $42,500 and $44,000, this bill lowers the marginal tax rate by 13 percent. Crafty Kiwi workers will strenuously work hard until they are on between $42,500 and $44,000, so that they get a 13 percent marginal lower tax rate; then they will suddenly stop working hard. It will have to be very carefully judged to achieve that kind of success. Those on between $44,000 and $70,000 have the same marginal tax rate, those on between $70,000 and $80,000 have a 4 percent higher marginal tax rate, and for those on $80,000 - plus it is 2 percent lower. Will Gerry Brownlee suddenly burst into a sweat, sprinting to work, because his tax rate goes down from 39 percent to 37 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EIt is stupidly complex, with the new independent tax credit. Why? Because National members promised the average wage worker that it would be 50 bucks a week on top of\u2014but then they said it would include\u2014what Labour was promising, and the only way that they could do that and make it affordable was to invent a new, clumsy independent tax credit that was abated out. That daft thing will cost the best part of $10 million a year to administer. And who will do that? Bureaucrats\u2014the very people whose numbers are going to be cut! Some bureaucrats somewhere will get chopped to pay for people to administer the independent tax credit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWhat happens to KiwiSaver? Well, I tell Mr Dunne that this policy does gut that scheme. It cuts the employee contribution from 4 percent to 2 percent, and National has not budgeted for any increased uptake. National says that that cut will lead to more people taking up the scheme, but it has not budgeted for anybody taking it up. It does not believe that more people will take it up. Why? Because National members are also going to legislate to allow the employers to shift their 2 percent on to the employees. The employers will end up paying 4 percent to get 4 percent, instead of paying 4 percent to get 8 percent as they would have done under the current scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut it is worse than that, because National is also lowering the cap on the employer superannuation contribution tax exemption, which I am sure Ms Bennett has never heard of. Contributions up to 4 percent are tax exempt, and that is the current KiwiSaver contribution rate by employers. It goes down to 2 percent. If employers choose to pay 4 percent, they will be taxed on the remaining 2 percent, and that will be a reduction of what goes into the employee\u2019s account. Anybody in this House who is on the post-1993 member superannuation scheme knows about that particular aspect of the scheme. Instead of 4 percent, it becomes 3.4 percent, but, more than that, it is a direct incentive to employers to cut their contribution to 2 percent, if they are giving 4 percent at the present time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe next point is what is going to happen to portability with Australia. We negotiated it on the basis that the two schemes were comparable. In Australia the employer pays 9 percent and the employee pays nothing. The employer pays 9 percent of a wage or salary into a scheme on behalf of the employee. Our scheme\u2014\u201D4 plus 4\u201D plus the tax credit\u2014equates to about the same level overall. It was on that basis that we were able to negotiate portability between the Australian mandatory scheme and KiwiSaver. Have Government members checked with the Australians? No, judging from the smiles on their faces. Are they checking that the Australians are happy to proceed with portability on the basis of a 9 percent scheme versus a 4 percent scheme? I think not. I do not think they will be. I think that portability is running out the window. It was a major policy to encourage high-value Australians in the professional and managerial areas to come here for a period of time, because they would not lose their Australian superannuation entitlements and the ability to contribute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe have the abolition of the research and development tax credit\u2014dumber companies. Who welcomed this policy? Briscoes, the well-known exporter, producer, manufacturer, and icon of New Zealand business! This is a policy\u2014a bill\u2014about consumption. If the member opposite wants to encourage consumption purely to stimulate the economy, then why has he got a new structural tax change, which he himself admits will lead to ever-increasing deficits being forecast into the future? He would have been better to follow something like the M\u0101ori Party policy, and, indeed, what the Australian Government has done, in terms of one-off payments to stimulate the economy in the short term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EHe knows he is in a huge budgetary hole now with no way out. The Speech from the Throne today was simply his throwing in the towel. It basically said \u201CWell, as long as we\u2019re the Government there are going to be huge deficits. Somehow or other this policy will stimulate sustainable growth and growth in productivity.\u201D It may stimulate consumption, but because the Government will be borrowing more and more, it will lead to a structural increase in New Zealand interest rates, which will be a cost upon New Zealand business. Companies that want to expand research and development will not be encouraged, and productivity will not grow. What is the National Government\u2019s answer to all of this? A tax cut of a maximum of $15 a week for anybody on an ordinary income. That is all it is at its maximum\u2014$15, the value of the famous block of cheese at the time of the Budget this year. Parents will be told by teachers that Johnny may be failing, and somehow that is meant to increase productivity in the New Zealand economy. On top of that, there are some minor changes or something or other to the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThis is an economic programme? This is about a brighter future? No wonder Anne Tolley is the Minister of Education. She is the personification of the National Party\u2019s brighter future. No wonder Paula Bennett is the Minister of Social Development and Employment, and no wonder poor Gerry Brownlee, whom I have already had to help hour after hour in this Parliament, is the Leader of the House. This policy is not about a brighter future. This is about an obsession with one issue and sacrificing everything else\u2014savings, investment, research and development, incentives\u2014on that one crucible, that one anvil of an obsession with trying to lower tax slightly at the margin. If that is an economic policy, God help us. This Government, we are told, is still in the honeymoon period; well, as far as I am concerned it is looking like nascent necrophilia over there, and I look forward to burying the body sometime in the next 3 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0acbd98fa5a4cb1afb7236791d62599\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0acbd98fa5a4cb1afb7236791d62599\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party believes that we in this country need to look at who we are taxing and why. Does our tax system really provide the incentive framework to encourage a civilised, fair, and sustainable society? Taxes are used both ways\u2014they are revenue for important Government activities, but they also create economic signals that encourage some activities and discourage others. We in the Green Party generally believe in taxing the bad things, like pollution and waste, but not the good things, like people\u2019s efforts at work. We also believe in progressive taxation. Those who can afford to pay should pay. We believe that that is a fundamental principle in a decent society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party will be opposing this bill because we believe it makes our current tax system worse, not better, and I would like to explain a bit about the background to the Green Party\u2019s approach to tax policy. We would like to shift some tax off wages and enterprise and make up the difference by taxing pollution and waste. New Zealand needs a tax shift. We need to tax incomes less and tax polluters more. This bill is not about an ecological tax shift, sadly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWe urgently need, for example, a resource levy on commercial water-use. If we want to use resources more efficiently, then resource levies make sense. This would reward those commercial water-users who use water well and put the heat on those who waste water. It would set up the right kind of incentive to use the resource efficiently and, in fact, increase productivity in the way we use natural resources\u2014a word that was used often in the Speech from the Throne this morning. We think we have to use these kinds of tax signals to create market mechanisms to achieve environmental goals and economic goals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003ETax shifting takes taxes off incomes, which we support, but it puts them on to resource use. There has been a big growth in commercial water-use over the last decade, and there should be a resource levy around that. About three-quarters of fresh water is used for irrigation for intensive agriculture and about 10 percent is used by large industrial users. As a general rule, no price is paid for that. We are not proposing that there should be the privatising of water or tradable water rights, but there should be a charge. That is the kind of tax shifting that the Green Party subscribes to. If we want to use a public resource for commercial profit, then the public should be paid a rental on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EA resource levy is not an extra tax. It is fiscally neutral, and we believe in a fiscally responsible approach to tax. It is not an approach to tax that cuts the money available to health and education; nor does it lead to more Government borrowing, as it seems National\u2019s and Labour\u2019s tax cuts inevitably will. We believe that a fiscally neutral approach is actually much more responsible. That is our approach to tax shifting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EContrary to what is often said, New Zealand is not a high-tax country. It has tax rates that are below the OECD average, and there is not a huge pressing need right now, when we look at the international tax situation, to immediately cut New Zealand\u2019s tax rates. There is a lot of talk in the regulatory impact assessment about the international situation, but internationally New Zealand does not do too badly in terms of taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI would also like to say that tax gets a bad rap. Nobody likes paying taxes, yet, if we are honest we will say we all need and want the things that taxes pay for: decent hospitals, public schools, and the ability to look after the environment. These are the building blocks of a civilised, fair society. There is no shame in taxes. \u201CTax\u201D should not always be seen as a bad word. Even though nobody wants to pay taxes, we all want what they deliver. In fact, we wonder whether the people of New Zealand really value a tax cut ahead of improving our schools, cutting our hospital waiting lists, and cleaning up our environment. We challenge any party that advocates a tax cut for the rich to first prove that our public services are adequately funded and provide a fair go for all Kiwis. The Green Party did not bribe its way back into Parliament off the back of tax cuts that our nation cannot afford. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EKiwis pay their tax in the expectation that it will be used to deliver a decent society. People out there want a society in which there is safe housing for all those who need it, but it costs money. We cannot keep making spending promises without telling people where we are going to get the money from. People want a society where their kids and other people\u2019s kids get a chance at a decent education and where rivers are cleaned up so they are safe for swimming in. When people get sick they want a hospital with enough resources to provide them with a bed if they need it, doctors, nurses, and all the rest of the staff, and even bureaucrats\u2014those evil bureaucrats who book the appointments, answer phones, and give doctors and nurses time so they can actually treat patients. That is why people pay taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EIn general, cutting taxes means having less for spending. This Government has already announced a pretty expensive programme of spending, and it seems it is being added to all the time. We have to assume either that there will be cuts somewhere else, aimed perhaps at those who are least able to speak in their own defence, such as the poor, the old, the young or\u2014or, perhaps, and/or\u2014that our national debt will increase very significantly. That, of course, means that future generations will have to pay interest on whatever money we borrow today for our tax cuts. So if we borrow to pay for tax cuts today, the next generation will have to pay taxes to pay the interest on the debt we build up to pay for our tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EIt is also true that many of our social services need more funding. Look at residential aged-care. Surely one of the marks of a civilised society is how we look after our vulnerable elderly when they can no longer fight so well for their own rights. I do not know that we can say we are a truly civilised nation unless we fund aged care properly. The horror stories that come out of our rest homes are too tragic and too unacceptable and should make one pause before suggesting that the first thing this country needs is a tax cut. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EDo our vulnerable families need less support? Do those kids who get moved from crowded, damp household to crowded, damp household\u2014sometimes deadly households\u2014often having to change schools and having their education disrupted, need less support than the rest of us? I think that, actually, they need more. I think they deserve more. The challenge to this Parliament is to actually deliver more, and that costs money. Kids with asthma and glue ear from damp houses never get a chance to participate in the greatness this country has to offer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to KiwiSaver, the Green Party has supported a policy that supports an increased level of savings, both to control inflation and to improve our balance of payments account, and also to strengthen investment in local communities. It was for that reason that we supported KiwiSaver. We had some doubts about KiwiSaver. KiwiSaver is far from perfect. We were dubious to some extent as to whether it would really increase overall savings or simply move some private savings into KiwiSaver, which would happen anyway. We were worried about the impact of KiwiSaver on Government savings due to the cost of funding the scheme. We were also worried that basically we were using taxes to subsidise inequality in retirement income between those who could save and those who could not afford to save and therefore never got any of the tax benefits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003ENone the less, in spite of our reservations about KiwiSaver it seemed a sensible approach to try to increase savings. We did want a 2 percent rate as an option, and, actually, we are pleased that the 2 percent rate is coming in. We are also pleased that the Government has ensured that low-income earners get the full $20 a week. But, overall, the problem with the bill is that it reduces incentives to save. So we do have tax shifting. We move taxes off income and put them on to savings. I am not sure that this is really a very wise long-term strategy for a nation with a chronic account deficit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI also question whether this is really the best way to deliver an economic stimulus package. These tax cuts will either be spent or be saved. If they are spent a good proportion of them will be spent on imported goods\u2014that is, we will borrow money from overseas in order to stimulate someone else\u2019s economy, because we will be purchasing their goods. If the tax cuts are saved they will not have a stimulatory effect on the economy. It is not a very good way to stimulate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EInfrastructure spending makes a much better stimulus package, especially if it is infrastructure that can be built using local goods and services. Housing and home insulation are a much better option if we want to have an infrastructure spending programme to stimulate the economy. They can be sourced locally, so we do not, effectively, stimulate someone else\u2019s economy. Sustainable infrastructure is a much better stimulus package. Public transport, sewerage schemes, trees on eroding land\u2014there is so much more we could do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI would like to mention that the Buy Kiwi Made campaign would make a significant impact on protecting Kiwis\u2019 jobs. I would also like to touch on the regulatory impact assessment, which, according to the bill itself, is completely inadequate. The Government has made a great deal about regulatory impact assessments, so there is a tremendous hypocrisy in the fact that the first bill this Government introduces states that it has an inadequate regulatory impact assessment because of inadequate time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI hope that the Government will bring up in much more detail the regulatory impact assessment as the bill goes through the House over the next day or so, so that it can stand by its election promise to make sure that all regulation it introduces has a proper impact assessment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcbe0de61517403e949d8cb44d713744\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcbe0de61517403e949d8cb44d713744\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E ACT welcomes this Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill as a small step in the right direction. This bill is in marked contrast to what we saw from the Labour Government over the last 9 years\u2014a Labour Government that refused to adjust the tax brackets or to index them. As a result of that we saw a marked increase in the average amount of tax paid by average wage earners, so much so that low-income workers did not receive a real increase in wages during those 9 years after taking tax into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003EThis bill restores the tax threshold position of 10 years ago for those who are on 21c in the dollar or those who are on low to middle incomes. It does not restore the relative position of those on the 33c or 39c index. In other words, those on the higher income are still in a relatively poorer, or worse, position than they were 10 years ago. The arguments that have been put forward by the Labour speakers in relation to the bottom tax rate of 12.5c simply do not hold water. If we analyse the people who pay only 12.5c we find that around 90 percent of that group actually come from high-income families. They are the wives or the husbands of high-income earners. They are the children of high-income earners. What the Labour Government did in its tax legislation of last year was to encourage income splitting so high-income earners who had the capacity to do that said \u201CThank you very much Labour\u201D and the poor suffered, and the low-income and disadvantaged paid for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003EA real negative of this bill, however, is its failure to flatten the tax scale and, thereby, its failure to gain the opportunity to promote growth in this country. But when we talk about tax we are really talking about Government expenditure because taxation, in the end, is all about expenditure. What a Government spends, a Government must take from the public to pay for that expenditure. If the Government takes $50 billion, it has to tax $50 billion. If it takes $100 billion, it needs to tax $100 billion. We need to recognise that, and we need to pay a lot more attention to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003EThe Government is, in fact, no different in that respect from any household in New Zealand. It is therefore important and vital that any dollar the Government takes from taxpayers is spent effectively and that a dollar spent by a Government returns to the nation at least as much as it would have returned had it been left with individual New Zealanders. We know with absolute certainty that that did not occur under a Labour Government over the last 9 years. The fact is that over the past 9 years core Government expenditure increased by $18.2 billion, over and above inflation. This increased level of expenditure cost every New Zealander on average $1,000 per month or $12,000 a year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003EI have listened to the speakers from Labour cry wolf about how they want to help the poor and the disadvantaged, but over the last 9 years they took $18.2 billion in extra taxation from average New Zealanders or $1,000 a month. The fact is that had we left that extra $1,000 a month with low-income families in particular, they would be a whole lot better off than they are at the moment. The fact is that Labour spent that extra tax, that extra $1,000 per family, on dubious programmes and failed social experiments that have not benefited New Zealand households by anywhere near the $1,000 a month it took from them. Labour would have been far better to leave the money with them. For families, that $1,000 per month represented books for children, meals in restaurants, carpets, clothes, and extra savings. For the economy it represented lost jobs in shops, factories, and service industries right across the country. That $1,000 that a Labour Government took from, on average, every household in New Zealand over the last 9 years was in large part redistributed via, as I said, dubious programmes. A large percentage was spent on extra bureaucrats and the bureaucracy. New Zealand\u2019s living standards over the last 50 years have slipped from third to 38th and in no small part has that been because over the last 50 years much of the money that we have taken from individual New Zealanders has been largely wasted on poor programmes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003EOne of the things we need to do if we are to get through the recession we are in, and if we are to grow and to catch Australia over the next 20 years, is ensure that Government expenditure bears fruit and returns to the nation at least as much as it would have had the money remained with individuals. In these circumstances, it is a nonsense to pretend, as Labour speakers have, that reducing waste, for example, is somehow seeking heartless efficiency at the expense of equity. The fact is that waste consumes resources that would otherwise be available to improve equity levels throughout the community. The fact is that every dollar of waste\u2014and we saw billions of dollars wasted by the previous Labour Government\u2014that can be eliminated is a dollar that is available for another programme, in particular to help the disadvantaged, rather than there being a cost imposed on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003ESo how should we mark this particular legislation? At best I believe it is a work in progress. Having said that, it is not bad, given that the Government has been in office only 1 month and the fact that it inherited a pretty damned awful fiscal situation. But the fact is that marginal tax rates in this country are too high, particularly for families. Although I support the aims of the Working for Families package, it was delivered in a terrible way and the marginal tax rates that it imposed are creating a situation where growth will not occur. We have too much wasteful private sector effort once again being devoted to devising ways around New Zealand tax laws. Mind you, the Labour Government in its last Budget helped the affluent to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003EThe system, I am afraid, is seen to be increasingly unfair. This particular legislation will help that but it will not overcome that problem. The tax scale is far too progressive, which is a disincentive for people to work harder and increase their income. If we are to create a structure for growth we will have to do a lot more than we are doing at the present time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003EI will finish by saying that in a global economy New Zealand\u2019s tax system needs to be as competitive as possible. If it is not, we will continue to slide as we did for the last 9 years under a Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022 data-id=\u00224275043f198241d2872bc789c1a2818a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224275043f198241d2872bc789c1a2818a\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I was not going to take a call in this debate but a few things have occasioned me to. The first is that there has been a very long gap between National speakers; they are not showing up to defend this legislation and I am not sure why. That will not stop this Opposition laying out why we think this package is wrong, in the wrong time, and designed in the wrong way. The second reason I got to my feet is that I have just heard the speech from the ACT member Sir Roger Douglas, and that is a speech I have heard for 20 years. That is a speech I have heard for 20 years\u2014where the member says that he cares for the low paid, and then votes to put up the taxes compared with what they would be in law already on our law books. This is a man who says he cares about the working classes, and when he was Minister of Finance and was followed on by Ruth Richardson this country saw the biggest rate of increase in inequality in the Western World. As measured by the Gini coefficient we became the second most unequal country in the world, behind the United States. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003ESo when the member for the ACT Party gets up to say he is going to vote down more progressive legislation\u2014as far as low-paid people are concerned\u2014and vote for something that does low-paid people in the eye, and he is going to justify that by saying that low-paid people are actually very rich, and that they are part-time spouses of very rich people, then I think that that is a bewildered analysis and it needs to be laid to rest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EGenerally speaking, people who receive small amounts of money are poor, and people who receive large amounts of money are not. That is roughly how it goes. No matter how many times over how many decades some sort of bewildered analysis says the opposite, it does not make it true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EI have another reason for getting to my feet, and that is that we have a global downturn coming, it would seem, and the question is how it will be distributed in this land. How will the downturn be distributed? Who will be taking it in the neck? Here is the beginning of the answer, and later this week we will have more of the answer. We will be going after the low paid. There will be a lower tax cut for the low paid under the National Government\u2019s plan between now and 2011 than there would have been under the Labour Government\u2019s plan that is already on the statute book; that is already in law. So we are about to strike down law this week that would give low-paid people a better deal, and high-paid people not such a good deal, and put in legislation this week that will give low-paid people a worse deal, and high-paid people like me a better deal\u2014and that is wrong. It is wrong because it means that the distribution of the forthcoming recession will be meted unequally on those who can least afford to stand that decrease in their living standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EBut I have another reason for getting to my feet. This legislation removes the research and development tax credit that came into force on 1 April this year. It does not reduce it; it removes the research and development tax credit that came into force on 1 April this year\u2014and that is really, really dumb. That is a very, very dumb thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003ELet us look at what the tax credit did. It said to folk that if they spent money on research and development attributable to the tax credit, they would receive a 15 percent tax credit, whether or not they were loss-making. If they were loss-making, the Inland Revenue Department would actually send them a cheque if they undertook research and development that qualified. The reasons the tax credit was put in place are several-fold. One reason, which the economic purists have to acknowledge, is that research and development is risky, and, therefore, having a 100 percent deductibility does not cut it. The second reason is that even if the research and development succeeds, it tends to be taken up by firms other than just the firm that undertook the research and development. In other words, it is not entirely appropriable to the firm that undertook the research and development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EThat is the basic economic theory behind having a tax break for research and development. That is why nearly every Western nation, in some form or another, has some sort of contribution by the State to a research and development investment undertaken privately. That is why nearly every Western nation does that, and I am sad that the previous Government took so long to get a research and development tax credit in. We were opposed by Treasury; we were opposed by the Inland Revenue Department. Time and time again they came up with their view that the rest of the Western World had it wrong, and that somehow New Zealand had it right. Finally we prevailed, and I acknowledge the work of Dr Michael Cullen in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EThe tax credit goes to those businesses that, I assert, are more likely than businesses in general to pull us through this downturn. Let us look at companies that undertake research and development. They are more likely to be high-growth companies; not always, but as a group\u2014there are about 3,000 of them\u2014they are more likely to be fast-growing companies. As a group, they are nearly all involved in the real economy. We do not find appropriable research and development undertaken by money traders; we find it undertaken by people who are involved in information and communications technology, in engineering, in biotechnology, or in whatever it is to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EWe find that those people who work in companies that undertake research and development are more likely to be well paid. Do we not want a high-wage economy? And what is more, we find that companies that undertake research and development are much more likely to be exporters. So here we have it: a rapidly growing cohort of businesses, a cohort of businesses that is inclined to employ people at higher wages, and a cohort of businesses that is inclined to export. These businesses\u2014and only these businesses\u2014are to get a tax increase as a result of this legislation, and that is dumb. It is really dumb. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EWhat is more, these businesses as a group\u2014roughly, generally\u2014are more inclined to want to reinvest into their company, and less inclined, on average, to want to take the earnings out of the company. Generally speaking, they are on a high growth because they have a high level of reinvestment, and that level of reinvestment can go up with a tax credit, which means that the growth will slow if the tax credit is removed. That is just simply the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EBut wait, there is more. Research and development travels. Research and development moves across borders. Research and development moves freely across borders, and research and development will move freely across our border. It will go substantially to Australia\u2014not so much in the engineering sector, and to a lesser extent also in biotechnology, but certainly in information and communications technology. It will go to Australia. But wait, there is more. The research and development tax credit that came in on 1 April of this year was actually a little better than the one that was in Australia already, so research and development was moving from Australia to New Zealand until National announced its policies. We had some movement of high-wage, high-tech, high-growth personnel from Australia to New Zealand, and from Britain to New Zealand, but no more\u2014no more. They have stopped coming, they will start leaving, and we will become dumber. And what is more, because our economy will grow more slowly as a result of the tax credit being removed, National will have a lower economic base to tax in the first place. So this is a dumb policy. If Australasia is to ever become a smart part of the world, New Zealand will become a dumb part of Australasia. It is a dumb policy. It is a stupid policy, and the Government\u2019s excuse for saying it is that it cannot afford it. Well, I tell members what: when it is fully in place it will cost $332 million a year. If we divide that by 4 million people, it works out at $1.60 per citizen, per week, available for tax cuts somewhere\u2014$1.60 per person per week. That is what we give New Zealanders, and the price we pay is a dumb economy. This bill is a bad bill for that reason alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022 data-id=\u00222f87a6231b794124bd92fd5711bbe880\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f87a6231b794124bd92fd5711bbe880\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E First, let me acknowledge the election of the Speaker, the Deputy Speaker, and the Assistant Speakers\u2014including you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I also acknowledge my returning colleagues and new members. I look forward to hearing maiden statements from new members on all sides of the House, and if what we heard today from the two members who made maiden statements is anything to go by, then I say we are in for a great period. I look forward to hearing those statements. I also thank and acknowledge the 20,103 people of Tukituki who re-elected me to represent them in Parliament, the 17,904 people who voted with their party vote for National in Tukituki in Hawke\u2019s Bay, and the more than 1 million New Zealand voters who voted for National\u2019s 100-day plan. It is a plan of tax cuts\u2014simple tax cuts. It is a 100-day plan of commitments\u2014an economic plan for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EOne of the first things the previous Labour Government did when it came into office was to raise taxes. One of the first things the Labour members did was to take the top personal tax rate from 33c in the dollar to 39c in the dollar. It was 3,231 days later when they decided to cut taxes, in the face of lower poll ratings, and to try to rescue themselves from absolute oblivion. The first measure of this incoming National Government, 21 days after being elected, is to introduce on the Table, in front of members now, the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. It is an absolute pleasure to be speaking and voting for this bill, and to be part of the finance team of this National-led Government, which is committed to putting on the Table an ongoing programme of personal tax cuts. We have waited for 9 long, wasted years to get an ongoing programme, a committed programme, of personal tax cuts back into New Zealand, so as to back New Zealanders. We will not really take as much in personal taxes in the first place; we will leave the money there with people. After 9 long, wasted years we finally have some certainty with regard to personal incomes. After-tax incomes are going up; personal tax cuts are coming in. National members are committed to National\u2019s core policy, and it is an absolute pleasure to be committed to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThe members opposite who spoke earlier seem to have forgotten what happened a few weeks ago, and why this programme of tax cuts was core, open, public policy. Over 1 million New Zealanders voted for this policy. It is very tempting to repeat the words of the previous finance Minister after the 1999 election. It is very tempting to do so, but I will not. The anger will dissipate after a while\u2014perhaps after the next 2 weeks. I did note the applause the new finance spokesperson for the Labour Party got; I think one person was clapping. The previous finance Minister had rousing applause from his colleagues on that side. I thought that was quite interesting, even though it was a somewhat angry speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EIt is such a pleasure to speak to this bill. After 9 years this bill shows a massive investment in the best part of the infrastructure of New Zealand, which is the people of New Zealand. We want to reward them. We want them to stay here and have a viable future in New Zealand, and we want the young people at varsity who are coming out with student loans to have the ability to pay for those loans. This measure makes it very much easier to give them a chance and an opportunity to choose a viable future in New Zealand. The members on the other side of the House seem to have forgotten\u2014I did not hear this in any of their speeches\u2014that over the past 9 years 70,000 to 80,000 Kiwis have been leaving per annum to go to other countries. Of those, 40,000 have been leaving for Australia because, quite simply, they could enjoy higher personal after-tax incomes there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EHouseholds are suffering and under stress. Household balance sheets are suffering; they are under stress and strain. Many people are suffering from the effects of the higher fixed mortgages that rolled over in the past 18 months to a year, when interest rates effectively doubled under the previous regime. People are struggling, and that is why we need them to enjoy a higher after-tax income. Then at least when they are negotiating with their bank, as they are suffering from the effects of the higher fixed mortgages costs they have had for the last few years, the bank will see that they have a forward track and an ability to fund their mortgage through this tough recession time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI did note that at the last Budget the previous finance Minister said, I think, \u201CWe\u2019ve spent the lot. It\u2019s out. The cupboard\u2019s bare.\u201D, or something like that. What he failed to mention is that not only did he think he had spent the lot but also he had dug a few holes and put a few ticking time bombs in the back of the closet. One of the terms he used, which may have been in the media, was about some kind of \u201Chospital pass\u201D to the incoming National Government. It was actually a hospital pass to Labour\u2019s new finance spokesperson. After his speech\u2014written by whom I do not know\u2014half his colleagues were nodding off to sleep. We are in for a fun time with that new spokesperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EWe talk about Australia and its 7-year programme, I think, of ongoing personal tax cuts. After-tax incomes in Australia are one-third higher than those in New Zealand. There are 500,000-odd Kiwis now living in Australia and enjoying that, and we wonder why they left New Zealand. We have speeches from members on the other side of the House that are static, boring, and stuck in the past. To use the previous speaker\u2019s term, those members are dumb. They lack the vision we are trying to show them here: a commitment by an incoming Government. Twenty-one days after being elected, the first legislation on our timetable is right here. We are rewarding New Zealanders, and we are trying to offer them a better, viable future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022517a627d99e145c6bac521c138251fb8\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: So why are you cutting KiwiSaver?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205ecb205c0994214878e8dc8b552dcaf\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: I will just touch on KiwiSaver for a minute. The previous speaker from the Greens mentioned it. This legislation brings in \u201C2 plus 2\u201D. I was on the Finance and Expenditure Committee when Business New Zealand and the combined trade unions both argued for \u201C2 plus 2\u201D. Both argued for \u201C2 plus 2\u201D. The Labour members on that committee also asked for and agreed with most of what they were saying. The Green member, as was previously acknowledged, said that the Greens also wanted \u201C2 plus 2\u201D. Yet the word came down from Dr Cullen\u2019s office upstairs that there was no way it was going to happen. The unions wanted it, business wanted it, and the Green Party wanted it. The Minister drove the present scheme through, for whatever reason we do not know. The change is right here, and this bill will make KiwiSaver more affordable and more robust. It will make it last for longer, and will give people certainty. As we know, many New Zealanders cannot afford to save. When we are No. 22 in the OECD, our ability to afford our expectations of 2008 is very, very limited. This only starts to go some way towards moving us back up the OECD, by trying to recover some of the opportunities that were lost over the last 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThis bill also deals with the research and development tax credits that previous members have spoken about, as well as KiwiSaver\u2014which we will be talking about in the coming hours\u2014and, of course, the changes in the personal tax rates, which we will get into more detail on. One thing I will mention, because it seems to be forgotten, is that we hear the term \u201Cborrowing from overseas\u201D from members over there on the other side of the House. Over 70 percent of Government debt is owned by overseas-registered institutions. The previous Government borrowed an awful lot from overseas. In the last Budget, $6.7 billion of extra borrowing was announced by the previous finance Minister. When that party over there was in Government, $6.7 billion of sales of financial assets were also announced in the same Budget. Those members cannot come into this House and rave on about overseas borrowing and debt blowing out, because the people responsible for that are right there on the other side of the House. In the June 2008 Budget there was extra borrowing. In October 2008 a decade of deficits was announced in the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update. In November 2008 the Accident Compensation Corporation\u2019s blowout was revealed; it is about $2.3 billion at the moment, and rising. In terms of the Government Shared Network, the Labour members say it is only $25 million, but it is $25 million of money that is not theirs to be wasted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI look forward to speaking further on this bill as we go through it, and I say it is about time, after 9 years of waiting, for us to finally have a constant, consistent, ongoing programme of personal tax cuts for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u0022433a37e91d0c4d48a31af83ae73c1f26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022433a37e91d0c4d48a31af83ae73c1f26\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Before I get into the cut and thrust of the bill, I recall the member said that people had forgotten what happened a few weeks ago in the election. I recall in this Chamber, some weeks before the election, putting it to Mr English that if he was re-elected\u2014and he was\u2014he would engage in Muldoonism, as Muldoon did by pulling the rug out from under every Kiwi who was saving at the time, in the 1970s. I looked up Hansard and I termed it would be the second-biggest example of economic vandalism that would ever come into this Chamber. I was heckled, even by old hothead over there. He was a hothead in Opposition, and is a hothead in Government. I was heckled by him and his ilk that it would never happen. They said I was telling porkies. Tonight this legislation was confirmed by old tumbleweed and by Mr Foss, whose greatest claim on the Finance and Expenditure Committee was to go before it\u2014as committee members do\u2014and get tax advice from officials. The only problem was that in his case he was asking specific questions about his own personal tax returns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ETonight is a very, very serious evening for this country. It is a pity that Mr Hide did not take a call, because I will pick up on a comment that was made before. I read page 10 of the explanatory note of the bill, which states: \u201CHowever, due to the timeframes involved, the RIA consultation requirements have not been met.\u201D I looked over, in front of Sir Roger Douglas, and I saw something akin to a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232863c65b9164ac6ae4172e3ba6252cd\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: A dried arrangement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2b6b274414b4092a1935a951a64cfad\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I would not say that, but something that had a tan was sitting in front of him. It was the \u201CMinister for Regulatory Busting\u201D, or whatever he is called today. Mr Hide is the man who went on Close Up and said \u201CSend me your problems. Send me all your regulatory problems. Here is my address, care of Parliament.\u201D Rodney Hide said that he would fix them. There was not a whimper or a comment. This is the first piece of legislation to come into the House today and it does not meet the regulatory impact statement threshold. I say that if that is Mr Hide\u2019s work ethic, if that is how he is going to fix things, then goodness only knows what will come in, in further legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe people have judged, they made the call on 8 November, and as of tonight the people will make the call again. I look forward to Mr Hide and his robust ways. He is the man who will fix everything. He will get rid of the red tape, and get rid of regulation. But he could not even read up to page 10 of the explanatory note of the bill. Was he not consulted? Who knows. Maybe he is not worth consulting. Maybe he has become just a sort of lapdog of the National Party and he is just not worth it. Maybe Rodney Hide will sign it off and it does not matter what is in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI say to the National Party tonight that the truth about this bill is that when Labour was elected in 1999 it inherited economic archaeology from National. Labour inherited an economic graveyard from National. Labour has left National with an economy where debt is slashed, where debt is halved, and where we are one of the best placed countries in the world to deal with an economic crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we had the Speech from the Throne. As Dr Cullen said tonight, we had the admission from Mr Key that fiscal prudence is surrendered and debt, borrow, and hope are on. The Speech from the Throne stated: \u201CThe Government will run an operating deficit this year and is likely to do so for some years to come.\u201D For how many years? As my colleague Mr Cunliffe said, where are the debt track documents? Where are the projections?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c3361023e454ed1ab3e7c5eec959899\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about your projections on ACC!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228153c745da7f44bdb8c22e8982af0091\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I will get to accident compensation with that member in a little while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022912c892552774152b9e145772bb86b98\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, good!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022794aa67ca5ec4250b3d08bbab24f0c51\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: We will get to the member, do not worry. Where are the debt tracks? Where are the projections for when the deficit will end? Government members do not have them. They have not done the work. They have presented a bill to the House that is the old-fashioned Tory ethos on life. It is a bill that Mr Foss would do well to read because if he read it he would know that those at the bottom are worse off. Those at the bottom will have a tax increase, and those like Mr Key and his lofty crew over there\u2014the million dollar men and women\u2014are 120 bucks a week better off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EAs a small scholar of history, that to me is just the usual Tory legislation. Before the election we heard the slogans. If one reads National\u2019s tax policy, which is an interesting document, it says this: \u201CNational also knows that New Zealanders want a tax system that is fair.\u201D What is fair about a mum and dad, with three kids, on 55 grand, losing $14 a week? But National said: \u201CChoose a brighter future\u201D. Members will remember the slogans\u2014the warm fuzzies\u2014\u201CChoose a brighter future\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThen the tax policy goes on: \u201CNational\u2019s tax package will give households confidence and some cash back in their pockets.\u201D Well, it will for Mr Key. It will for the chief executive of Telecom, to the tune of 500 bucks a week, but a family on 50 grand that is in KiwiSaver, with one child, loses $70 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad3f49f178b04737bf07fed43441948b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Back to the politics of envy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f52f7f20ff14877a886703fd60989ef\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I say that the politics of envy is this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b50903c311654cf38fe10a8dd3a3f2cd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The politics of envy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb63aadf22c94085874d2b599710978f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Is it envious then for a family with one child to lose, because of that member, $70 a week because of his policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022405628b9fbb04b8c868af7b3a87cf378\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the politics of envy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d72bc1b90ee242ab8aa5ffeeee82bca7\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: He says that is envy. He says that when a family on $50,000, with one child, loses $70 a week, thanks to his Government, that is the politics of envy. No, I say that is the politics of despair for that family. That arrogant puffball over there who now sits in his ministerial car, and is paid a huge salary, will not lose $70 a week, but he says that when a family with one child, earning 50 grand, loses $70 a week it is the politics of envy. Does that not show the typical Tory at his best? It is envious to get upset about a family that loses $70 a week\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6ec3535be7c4719b3ce05a9e8b67b60\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Get over it, Clayton!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022756d751cb4b64f2e8f129700dabc91a9\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Like hell I will get over it. I will bring that back to the member every day in this Parliament for 3 years. We should get the family in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f65857950d34ce9b7fba1953edf17ed\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m terrified!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dfe82c1174446de8f2a60ef61476e93\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The member might be terrified if the family comes to Parliament. He can explain to them why they lose $70 a week. He can explain why he took it. He can explain why he calls that the politics of envy. What will the member say to the family that loses $70 a week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6554c22f2b741b6b025e0aea3b0f0d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll say the politics of envy is dead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e12517cff5234065b694a6aac40f243e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I did not think this could get any better. I hope the Hansard people got that verbatim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis is the plan to deal with the recession. The plan to deal with the recession is to give tax cuts to those at the top end, to give tax increases to those at the bottom end, and to gut KiwiSaver completely. I am no expert but I would have thought that in a recession, if there was ever a time that we wanted people to save and to incentivise them to do so it is now. The Government has gutted research and development tax credits. We know that business people flew from all over the country to Auckland to work over Mr English before the election when he made that announcement. We know what he said to them. He said: \u201COh, we\u2019ll deal with it some other way. We\u2019ll make it go away. We\u2019ll deal with it some other way.\u201D I would have thought in a recession that if there was ever a time to have research and development tax credits where we incentivise businesses to produce new and innovative products and services, thereby creating new and innovative jobs, it is now. But that is gone, or it will be under National. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ETonight we have had what I and every other colleague on this side the House predicted would happen if National got in. We predicted that the rug would be pulled out from under every saver\u2014800,000 of them. Mr Foss says that people do not want to save. Dr Cullen\u2019s package\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022375f742b79914421b23afae3c12ff219\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: They can\u2019t afford to save.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c94d1b5f83f4e8f98a2d946488d4418\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: If they cannot afford it, why are 800,000 - plus people in it, you plonker? That is not the politics of envy, it is the politics of common sense. People are very smart and that is why 800,000 of them are in KiwiSaver. I say to the member opposite, Nick Smith, that his words tonight have been very helpful and I thank him, because they will hang like a noose around his neck for the next 3 years. When we go and talk to families and we listen to them, and they explain to us why they are losing money and that the Government is now taking money from them, we will point them in the direction of the Hon Nick Smith and he will say that it is the politics of envy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u0022043a4932c5d34c8480a8051ea0ce0b4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022043a4932c5d34c8480a8051ea0ce0b4f\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Tihei mauri ora. Whakataka te hau ki te uru, whakataka te hau ki te tonga. Kia m\u0101kinakina ki uta, kia m\u0101taratara ki tai. E h\u012B ake ana te ata kura, he tio, he huka, he hauhunga. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou. E te Kaik\u014Drero o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Kei te mihi ahau ki a koe. Ki ng\u0101 mema P\u0101remata, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E[Behold the sneeze of life. Cease the wind from the west, cease the wind from the south. Let the breezes blow over the land, let the breezes blow over the ocean. Let the red-tipped dawn come with a sharpened air, a touch of frost, and a promise of a glorious day. Greetings to you collectively, and to you, Mr Assistant Speaker of the House. Greetings. To members of Parliament, greetings to you, greetings to you, and greetings to us all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EWe have just heard a speech from the ex-honourable Clayton Cosgrove. It was an angry speech. He started his speech by saying that this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee0eefe74b3f425cb01543448d99ea19\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Cosgrove is the Hon Clayton Cosgrove. To describe him in the way the member did is an insult to the House and to the Prime Minister, who has written to Mr Cosgrove to indicate that that title continues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2f5c5e3909246c4bc91fe12f680c38b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I just point out to the Labour Opposition that continuously during Mr Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s speech he referred to members on this side of the House as plonkers and called them all sorts of other derogatory names. For Opposition members now to get all precious because the member did not use the term \u201Cthe Hon Clayton Cosgrove\u201D is rather rich and unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261e538d521a942acae4097a3b9def0d7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: No, if the member took umbrage he should have raised a point of order at the time and had the matter clarified then. It is far too late now. The point of order has been well made and I ask the member to keep that in mind when he addresses the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220655a89ad8504a0480ca446975049fc4\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Members of the public will be interested to hear the speech made by the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, who stood up and said that this bill was the second-biggest example, in his small scholarly history, of economic vandalism that he had seen. He said that the KiwiSaver changes would be economic vandalism. I want to understand what part Mr Cosgrove does not understand about taking the entry level from 4 percent to 2 percent. Taking the entry level from 4 percent to 2 percent is what the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions representatives stood in front of the Finance and Expenditure Committee and asked for, right from the word go. What will happen is that it will promote more people into KiwiSaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EIt should be understood that of the 800,000 people Clayton Cosgrove so diligently referred to, only one in five are employees. In fact, a heck of a lot\u2014over 120,000\u2014are under the age of 18. This Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill will get more Kiwis, more hard-working New Zealanders, into KiwiSaver, and it will actually promote saving. Perhaps members might want to reflect on the claim that this is the second-biggest example of economic vandalism in the world. I think it will promote saving in this country and take this nation forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EAs I commence this speech on the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, I acknowledge and congratulate you on your role as Assistant Speaker. I also acknowledge the election of the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith, and I am sure he will take this House forward. I also acknowledge the election of Assistant Speaker Eric Roy and Deputy Speaker Lindsay Tisch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EIn my opening whakatauk\u012B I used a proverb that sets the scene for this first legislation under this new National Government to hit the floor. The proverb, as translated, says: \u201CCease the winds from the west, cease the winds from the south, let the breezes blow over the land with a sharpened air, a touch of frost, and a promise of a glorious new day.\u201D Just over 4 weeks ago, New Zealanders elected a new Parliament and a new Prime Minister. Interestingly, the Opposition has not quite got the hang of that yet. John Key brings a fresh, aspirational approach to this country for which many people have been looking for 9 long years. Even people who were misguided by Labour\u2019s \u201Cyou can\u2019t trust them\u201D message are waking up to the fact that this is a leader who will really drive our country forward. Here we see legislation on the floor within 4 weeks of our entering into Government, taking this nation forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EI take the opportunity to thank the people of Napier and Wairoa for placing their trust in me for another 3 years. It is indeed a privilege and an honour to be representing the people of Napier, and to be here tonight introducing legislation to the House that we committed to over the election. It is about building trust. It is about doing what we say we will do. I stood on platforms throughout the Napier seat, and in other seats, talking about introducing tax cuts, and this is what we are doing. Within a short period of entering this Parliament, we have brought tax cuts to the table, and we are building trust, and it is going forward\u2014fantastic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EIt is not the first example of our getting on with the job quickly, because we have been doing it from day one. Within 2 weeks of the election, we held negotiations with three other coalition parties, and put together a historic agreement with the M\u0101ori Party\u2014an excellent start. We delivered a new Cabinet, with six women\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ca185947778481cb8cd44e2969155ea\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is the first reading debate of a tax bill. I know that it has been slightly wider than that occasionally, but this member now, for about the last 2 minutes of his speech, has not mentioned the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, and appears to have borrowed someone\u2019s notes for the Address in Reply debate. I ask you to bring him back to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223784ab2f5fd74d03a688cb51d21afbb5\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: This is a wide-ranging debate, a first reading speech, and I believe I have the scope. I have been referring to the bill throughout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286c94493c13a4fdd999704ec038d414e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: It is a wide-ranging debate, but it is about the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, and I think the member could speak a little bit more about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299f43520ab6542f194741e95d2a56e33\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: This is the first tranche of a range of legislation that we are bringing to the House. The Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill delivers on the first part of our plan. It totally contradicts the campaign run by the Opposition, which said that a new National Government could not be trusted. Well, here we are building that trust, delivering quickly upon what we said we would. We will continue to build that trust, delivering upon a package of commitments through our 100-day plan, further building trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EThis bill is critical legislation at a time when the world economy is in turmoil. It is the first step of many to bring New Zealand back on track to a high-growth economy. I cannot overstate the importance of a tax regime that is functional, fair, and that encourages growth. Coming back to the Hon Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s point about being fair, here we are with tax legislation for 600,000 hard-working Kiwis in the engine room of this nation, who have not had a tax cut until the last few months, who over the last 9 years have gone through bracket creep, and who have crept into higher tax brackets and paid more and more tax. This is fair legislation. This is delivering tax cuts to the engine room of this country. I cannot overstate the importance of this legislation going forward. Taxes affect people\u2019s decisions to work, to save, to spend, to invest, to migrate, or to immigrate. There is no doubt in my mind that taxes have a huge impact on economic growth and future prosperity. Here we are today, once again in short time bringing together new tax legislation to the House. In my province of Napier, we are really feeling the pinch at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d2edc7bb1c243378d4d7dd5184a487f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a province.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ae9f7b2d79e42e689395ce62ea2758d\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: In my province of Hawke\u2019s Bay and in the city of Napier, we are really feeling the pinch at the moment. Did you guys actually go around during the election and talk to businesses and people in your electorates? Clearly, you did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220605eabef64145679d37b70803d019e9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know that you did visit businesses, but I think that that should not be brought into debate by that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbc8a7dc496742a1b710d9419b912589\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The point is made. Mr Speaker spoke about the use of \u201Cyou\u201D during debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5627a74137c4d75894dcbd40ed8bebf\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: In the city of Napier, we are really feeling the pinch. Businesses are hurting. When I walk down the main street of Napier, businesses and retailers are 8 to 12 percent back, and really hurting. Our exporters out there have had orders cancelled and even orders sent back. It is hurting. We have a choice in life. We can take a defeatist attitude and say that everything is outside our control, or we can take a proactive attitude and start doing a range of things that address the financial crisis we currently face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EThe bill takes a proactive approach in four key ways. Firstly, it adjusts the income tax threshold. It delivers on our promise to hard-working Kiwis to allow them to keep more of their hard-earned money. That is what we stood for at the election and promised, and what we have talked about for the last 9 years. And here we are, within 4 weeks of being elected as the Government, delivering on our promises. What the Opposition does not like is that we are building more and more trust as we go on, and delivering upon our promises. The Opposition is really struggling with that. The effect of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill will be to reduce personal taxes from April 2009. This new legislation will be passed by Christmas, and it will equip New Zealanders with some much-needed extra cash in tough economic times. I certainly know that in my city of Napier, and in my province of Hawke\u2019s Bay, these tax cuts will provide some extra fiscal stimulation. It will not be the silver bullet, but it will be a step in the right direction. Personal taxes will be reduced on 1 April 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae46ca1d01ed4e0b935619769ead0b7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae46ca1d01ed4e0b935619769ead0b7c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I do not intend to spend much time dealing with that speech from Chris Tremain. It was the typical bumbling incompetence that we have seen from the National Party. I would like to refer to an earlier speech, one which I found much more disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EAs much as Sir Roger Douglas and I have, over the years, grown to disagree on many issues, I have always thought that he was a person of principle. I thought he would have carefully examined this tax package, but if he had done that, he could not possibly vote for it. I will soon refer to Hone Harawira, and the fact that I am getting a call because the M\u0101ori Party has chosen not to take one, but the very people whom he says he cares about\u2014those people who are on not much more than the minimum wage, those people who have got kids\u2014are the people whose taxes are increased as a result of this package. It is unfair. It is inequitable. At a time when some people get a $500-a-week tax cut, there are other families that, when the KiwiSaver changes and the tax changes are combined, will get a $60 or $70 tax increase\u2014when the packages are compared\u2014in 2011. That Sir Roger Douglas, who says he cares about marginal tax rates, can vote for a package that puts them up by as much as that shocks me, because it goes against everything that he has said over the years about fairness and equity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7d566b279324fd1b9424f706d26e14b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Over 42 years!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3c91b34b89d478f904f720665a1c14a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Over many, many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe other point that I want to make is that I also do not understand how the person who was the architect of the Norman Kirk superannuation scheme can vote to gut the closest thing we have had to it since then. I ask Dr Cullen to excuse me for saying this, but I think the scheme that Sir Roger Douglas designed was better than KiwiSaver. I think it was a better scheme, I think we should have kept it, and I think the country would have been better off. It probably is not politically acceptable in current times, but it certainly is one of the two best arrangements, yet Sir Roger Douglas is taking his troops\u2014like lackeys\u2014into the lobby to support something that cuts New Zealanders\u2019 savings, that cuts investment of New Zealanders in New Zealand firms and, for that matter, overseas firms. That will mean that we own less and less of our own country, and are subject more and more to balance of payment deficits as the profits of the overseas-owned companies are stripped out of New Zealand and we have nothing coming back in the opposite direction. So it is not fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI say to Hone Harawira that I am gravely disappointed that the M\u0101ori Party has chosen not to stand up and say why it is voting for legislation that disproportionately hurts M\u0101ori. If one thinks of the families who are in the $20,000 to $30,000 bracket, the families whose combined incomes are around $50,000 and include kids, one finds that they are disproportionately M\u0101ori families. And he is voting to put their tax up, if they are in KiwiSaver, by about $60 a week. What is mana-enhancing about a tax increase of $60 a week for a low-income family? What good does it do those people? How do they feed their kids? How do they get the clothes they need? How do they give their kids Christmas presents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022437ac229d3aa41c6a036e68e7f25f3e2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: They can own the foreshore and seabed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dd6876d319b40ffaa25896e999ccafc\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: They might own the seabed and the foreshore, as Dr Cullen says, but if they cannot put food on the table, they cannot buy the occasional treat for the kids, they cannot occasionally buy them some new clothes or even some second-hand clothes, what is mana-enhancing about that? It is absolutely shocking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI want to make a comment or two about KiwiSaver. Every single person who is in KiwiSaver\u2014800,000 New Zealanders\u2014is worse off as a result of the legislation we are debating today. Bill English says that more people will go in the scheme. If he were telling the truth, he would have budgeted for $1,000 for every person who enters the scheme\u2014the increase in numbers. Has he done that? No, he has not. He knows that it is likely that, as a result of this measure, fewer people will join KiwiSaver or stay in KiwiSaver. It is a much less attractive scheme as a result of the changes that are proposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThere is another point. Some of us have been sick to death of John Key talking about the brain drain to Australia. Well, one of the things that Dr Cullen negotiated with the Australians, in an attempt to reverse that brain drain, was portability of superannuation. It meant that people in Australia who were later on in their careers could come back to New Zealand and have a leadership role over here. He did a lot of work on it. It was not easy. He had to convince the Australians that the schemes were near compatible. To be fair, \u201C4 plus 4\u201D plus the tax credit gets to 9 percent, but the sources are different. Of course, in Australia the 9 percent is paid by the employers. But the schemes were pretty close. That was the basis of the negotiations to have two-way portability. What is the story now? The National Government has walked away from it. National has walked away from something that makes it easier for high-achieving Kiwis to come home to work in New Zealand. I think that is disgraceful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EWhat is worse is that National did not have the courtesy to pick up the phone and tell the Australians that it was doing it. National did not pick up the phone and say that it was walking away from the portability deal. Well, the Australian Government might be a Government of a different hue; there is a Labor Government over there and there is a National Government over here. But in the past it did not matter. It did not stop Michael Cullen from talking to Peter Costello. It did not stop Helen Clark from picking up the phone and saying to John Howard: \u201CWell, we\u2019re planning to do something that might affect you. What do you think?\u201D, or at least informing him of the direction we were taking. I think that it is a sad indictment on the National Government and its arrogance, and that it shows a lack of coherence in its policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI come back to the point that so often we have heard of the brain drain to Australia. We work hard to get something to reverse that, especially for people who have some assets, who are likely to have higher incomes, and who are likely to make a leadership contribution in New Zealand, and what does the National Government do? For reasons of ideology that none of us can work out, it decides to cut it out. I ask Hone Harawira about the M\u0101ori who are currently in Australian superannuation schemes and want to spend some of their later years here at home with the wh\u0101nau. What will they do? It will be a lot harder, as a result of this measure, for people to come back to New Zealand and for families to be together. I want to know whether that was explained to Mr Harawira. Will he come with me back to the National Distribution Union? He and I had a very good session with the Northern Distribution Union. He made a pile of commitments. He did not commit to put up the taxes of nearly everyone in that room. He did not commit to cut their KiwiSaver, to cut their ability to save a bit for their old age. I say to him that they treated him with respect, they treated him as someone who had integrity, and he is failing them now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u002214f64c4d3ffe437c8e415148bac6dddf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214f64c4d3ffe437c8e415148bac6dddf\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Assistant Speaker, congratulations on your appointment to the role and welcome to a new Parliament. I also thank the people of Hamilton East for re-electing me to this role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s tax cut legislation was one of the strong points of the National Party campaign, and it is essential to rebuilding this economy. The New Zealand economy is in a state such that it needs some serious help. The serious help is on its way, through the National Government and through the 100-day plan that we will bring into play over the next little while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe key part is the tax cut programme. It is important because it will give the right signals and incentive to hard-working New Zealanders. It will give hard-working New Zealand families some relief. It will give individuals some relief. That is just part of what this Government and this country need to see happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThis Government intends to go out there and look after the New Zealanders who are in work and who see the right things and the good things they need to do to make their country and their families stronger. This programme of tax cuts is the first step that this Government will introduce in order to send that signal and provide that incentive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EIt is tough out there. New Zealanders are in a tough situation. The previous Labour Government has left us the legacy of an economy that is down the tubes. This Government will have to turn round that situation, and this package is the first part of that turn-round. [Interruption] The Labour members sitting over there are all so prim and proper. They have all come out to fight, have they not? Well, it is too late. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EIn a few days\u2019 time, on Thursday night, the new members of this House will see only four or five Labour Party members in the House, because they will have given up the ghost. They know it is all over. I see Michael Cullen over there\u2014the sight of his face! It is not as red as it used to be before the election campaign, but he will not be in the Chamber on Thursday night. Most of those members will not be sitting there and fighting on Thursday night. This is the last fight of the Labour Party, and they know it. This is the old guard who have come out to show what they are made of. Well, it is too little, too late. It will not work, because there is a new plan, a new agenda, and a new direction for New Zealand. That is what the public wanted. The public of this country voted for that, and the public of this country will get that. I say to New Zealanders that we will deliver, not what you did for 9 years, sitting there looking at yourselves, trying to make yourselves look better, and going\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c6e27bdc79dc4857a3e420c3d8059fee\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbf8fdd59f0b4d789b790ee2fd0a59b4\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know that the member has been in the House for just a short time but he again referred to you, and he cannot do that. Using the word \u201Cyou\u201D refers to the Chair. I think you should ask the member to remember that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229342ef2e4af34a2f8e05b44c791f690f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is correct. The matter was spoken of by Mr Speaker earlier today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db4a4965f80e48bea1a571cd47c08d27\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: If we look at the Labour Party members we see that this is their last fight. This is the last we will see of those Labour Party members, because they know that it is over for them. The New Zealand public will see a new direction, and it will be something they like and something that delivers for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ELet us look at the economic legacy of the Labour Government. The leader of the Labour Party said today that Labour left New Zealand in a good financial condition. Well, what was the rate of inflation? It was one of the highest in the OECD. What were interest rates? They were some of the highest in the OECD. Why does New Zealand now face a decade of deficits? He said he left this country in great shape! No, he left it in a recession. The American and Australian economies are trying to avoid a recession, and we have been in a recession because of the attitude of the Labour Government over the last 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EToday we heard from the new Opposition spokesperson on finance, David Cunliffe. His line of the day was \u201Cthe wrong tool for the wrong time\u201D. I tell new members that they will soon come to understand that the Labour Party has one line a day, and all its members are told to come into the Chamber and use that one line all day long. Well, Mr Hodgson could not even remember his finance spokesperson\u2019s line for the day, and he had to stop halfway through his speech and ask what it was and what they were talking about today. They do not know what is going on on their side of the agenda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ELet us look at what Labour members have been saying today. They say that tax cuts are bad for working New Zealanders. They say that tax cuts are hitting ordinary New Zealanders and hurting them. But Labour introduced major tax cuts this year, so how can tax cuts be bad now but be fine 3 weeks ago? How can tax cuts suddenly change, within a month, from being in the best interests of New Zealanders to not being in the best interests of New Zealanders? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EHow can the Labour Party suddenly change from being in favour of tax cuts to being against them? What is the difference? So did Labour\u2019s tax cuts not affect ordinary, hard-working New Zealanders? Is that what they are saying\u2014that their tax cuts were somewhat different from other people\u2019s tax cuts and this party\u2019s tax cuts? Well, they are not, because they are tax cuts, and tax cuts are good for all workers, especially the people the Labour Party should be looking after. Labour members were voted out because they were not looking after those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EHard-working New Zealanders knew who was going to look after them. They knew what the right approach was and they voted it in\u2014and it was the National Party\u2019s approach. One cannot say yes to tax cuts before an election and then say no to them after an election, as the Labour Party has done over the last month. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EOne of the previous leaders of the financial sector in this Parliament, Sir Roger Douglas, made a very good speech, I thought. It was quite insightful into the possibilities of the tax realm. He made a very good point about economic management and about the fact that the Labour Government frittered away the good years of New Zealand growth. It would be quite interesting to add up how much the Labour Government lost in the last month. I wonder how much it lost through investments\u2014money that was not invested in New Zealand. I am referring to those superannuation fund investments on the US stock exchange, those Accident Compensation Corporation investments on the US stock exchange, and the investment in buying the rail network. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EIf we added all that up we would probably be looking at a Labour Government that lost $4 billion or $5 billion worth of New Zealand\u2019s great growth over the last 9 years. It flushed down the toilet what this economy needed to get it through this time of economic dependency. That is not the kind of economic management that one would expect, and the New Zealand people have better economic management now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe final issue we need to touch on is the research and development issue. The Labour Party went through the election campaign talking about research and development and saying that it is the party for research and development. Well, let us look at it this way. What was it doing for AgResearch, which was going to lay off staff just before the election? It did nothing. Labour members were going to let people in AgResearch lose their jobs at the same time as they were saying how rich Labour was about research and development. The people in the industry who need help with research and development are looking for venture capital. They are not looking for Labour Party tax credits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThis measure is the first of a programme that will deliver the economic growth that New Zealand needs. The National Party will do it. We support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022da7690cfd8d04687b2157dcdee7b7f3c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb9247fa06d84306bb41ac3d0a4e0cb2\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc6d311c9a2c48d1b104d98d38f0ee3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc6d311c9a2c48d1b104d98d38f0ee3b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill be now read a second time. If we learnt anything from the first reading of this bill it is that Labour does not realise it lost the election. I think that is the real problem in this debate; that somehow it does not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289bf615a7b424c62a24ba3c7e491f8d0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but the time has come for me to leave the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812097d7e51c778434827a7d7244976c11f8b001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225882716921b64231a9fd51f1c3c389cd\u0022\u003ETuesday, 9 December 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b2c037360cd45a484ba198b0dd0017b\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 10 December 2008)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002243b28f294cee4a8cbe7c68428ef418a6\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b924f9359dc248b5898f0412a8976fff\u0022\u003EBills\u2014Availability in Urgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022a54c2437065d442db484b166039374d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a54c2437065d442db484b166039374d8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I draw your attention to the fact that although the Government has taken urgency on a number of bills, only the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill is on the Table at this stage. You may recall, Mr Deputy Speaker, that when urgency was taken under the previous Government, the bills for which any urgency had been taken were made available on the Table as soon as they had been printed. I listened this morning to an interview with the Minister of Labour, Kate Wilkinson, who made it clear that the details of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill had been finalised, so I presume that it has been printed. I believe it is good practice for the Government to get those bills on the Table as soon as they are possibly available, so that members of the House can actually be informed of those details before debate is entered into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a2c8cea543c4483b9c2f06308b2ae55\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Dr Cullen. We will look into that for you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022659a77f005fc4a4b97cd15ff0de8b69b\u0022\u003ETaxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022200d2aeed611493c8afed31cc5b582d4\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000009\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u00225f92b2602c8446eb99c24334850b6573\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f92b2602c8446eb99c24334850b6573\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E When I rose last night and spoke very briefly, I moved that this bill be read a second time, and I pointed out that the one thing that was obvious from the first reading debate was that Labour still does not realise it has lost the election. With the attitudes on display, I see that that is a realisation that will take some time to sink in, but I will come back to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EI remind members of the context in which this legislation has come before the House. New Zealand has already been in recession for a year, and of course there are questions about how we managed to get into recession before other countries did. The 2008 calendar year will show virtually zero growth\u2014the much-vaunted legacy of the previous Government, I presume. During this debate I expect that Labour members will be able to explain to us just why the economy was in such apparent great shape when it had zero growth. We have been in recession for longer than any comparable economy, and that was before the international events that are now concerning us. So we are introducing this legislation in the context of an economy that already had quite significant problems because of 9 years of complacency about what it takes to grow an economy and allow people to have all the benefits that go with a growing economy. That is the first point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EWe are introducing this legislation in the context of a country that was already in recession well before the international events that have created so much uncertainty. Of course, we have seen those events occur in the last couple of months, and we are surprised that in its dying days the Labour Government did not make much of them. The reason is that Labour was doing all of its dirty tricks, and that is a very obvious and high-profile legacy of this Government in the public mind; at a time when it should have been going through our proposals in detail, which are embodied in this legislation, and outlining its own ones in detail, it was chasing dirt files in Australia on the current Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EIf those members do not understand the detail of the legislation that is laid out now, that is why. They were too busy being focused on continuing their legacy of personal denigration and continuous scandal, and on issues that did not matter to the people who trusted them. That is why those members are on that side of the Chamber. Instead of looking at the detail of our economic policy and debating it in the election campaign in a way that would reflect the interests of the people who trusted them, Labour members were too busy chasing their strategy of personal denigration. The dirty, complacent Labour Party let its own people down because it did not focus on the issues that mattered to its own people. We did, and that is one of the reasons why Labour lost the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003ELooking ahead, we see that the New Zealand economy faces very significant uncertainty, and that uncertainty is\u2014at the moment, anyway\u2014largely to do with the state of the economies of our trading partners. In the last couple of months the economies of our trading partners, with the exception of China as a significant partner, are almost all headed into recession. That has happened quite quickly, even in Australia, which as recently as 2 months ago was forecast to grow at 2 percent per annum, but is now looking at a couple of quarters of negative growth despite the Government over there saying that it would not happen. So this legislation is part of a fiscal stimulus of around $7 billion over the next 2 years. That is not all of it; this will add to the stimulus created by a fairly big-spending Budget in 2008\u2014well, another big-spending Budget from a Government that has tried all sorts of tricks to hide some of the impacts of its worst decisions\u2014then the tax cuts on 1 October 2008. Those tax cuts were made somewhat reluctantly by the previous Government. Having spent 9 years saying it would never do that, it did. Having spent 9 years saying it would never borrow for tax cuts, in its dying days it turned round and borrowed for tax cuts. That is another reason Labour lost the election: it ended up doing the opposite of what it said after 9 years, which was \u201CWe will never cut personal taxes.\u201D Then because National won that argument the Government was forced to cut them, and it lost the election anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThere is nothing worse than giving way on one\u2019s principle and then regretting that one did it; that is what those members are sitting there doing. Would they not love to be able to say \u201CWe stood firm; we never gave in; we never cut personal taxes.\u201D? They cannot; at the last moment, along with the blowout in Treaty settlements, endless promises on rail, and the big hole in the Accident Compensation Corporation accounts, they caved in and made tax cuts. Well, we are happy to claim those tax cuts as part of our stimulus package because, in Dr Cullen\u2019s immortal words, \u201CHe lost\u201D\u2014he lost the tax cut argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EWhen we add those three things together\u2014the big-spending Budget in 2008, the 1 October tax cuts, and this tax package\u2014the economy over the next 2 years will benefit from $7 billion of stimulus. Why does that matter? Well, it matters because it will put cash in people\u2019s pockets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d7650cbcad5458595cee45fe275d06e\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Not all people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc853facb51d48c4a678af5b5eaef3db\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, just about everybody. I want to pay attention to one particular issue that has been raised, and that is the issue around Working for Families. Over the last 3 or 4 years there have been substantial increases in the net incomes\u2014the after-tax incomes\u2014of people with children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b14cdb08714b7b9d1e693cdfede8fb\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Opposed by the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224308233b862e4e1f909d6881aacdcaf5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, actually we support it. Many other New Zealanders who were not part of Labour\u2019s political strategy got nothing, so in this package people who got nothing for 9 years\u2014loyal Labour voters who were meant to be looked after by the previous Government, which spent all its time on a campaign of personal denigration and incompetent scandal\u2014will get something. It is true that there are no increases in Working for Families here. That is simply for this reason: families with children have had big increases over the last 2 or 3 years; people without children have had nothing. This tax package will give them some cash in their pockets, which will help to keep this economy ticking over and will protect people from the sharpest edge of recession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EAs it happens, this is a decision consistent with our long-term goals, which are to improve incentives in the economy to encourage people to get ahead, and to let them make their own decisions with their own money, instead of being told what to do by a Government that takes too much tax off them. So the decisions that will help the economy in the short term to cushion the effects of a recession will also help the economy in the long term to achieve our objectives of raising our long-term growth performance. Of course, who would know where Opposition members start from? They are against tax cuts; they are for them. They are against borrowing; they did it. They think the economy matters, but when it matters they never talk about it, such as in an election campaign. They talked about everything else. I suspect that it will take, probably, another 12 months for Opposition members to figure out that Labour is no longer the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u00229e899e99122846e48007eb20d9ca62b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e899e99122846e48007eb20d9ca62b4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E That has to be one of the singularly worst speeches I have heard from a Minister of Finance in my entire time in Parliament\u2014it is the worst, in fact. There is Bill English, saying we do not realise we have lost the election; I do not think he realises he has won. That was one of the bitterest, meanest, most angry speeches I have heard. We are in a better mood than he is, and we lost the election. I ask New Zealand what that was about. Was that the happy, friendly face of the modern National Party, or was that some warmed-over dipstick from Dipton? Look, I do not know about his mana-enhancing Treaty blowouts, and his carping and whining about the election campaign, but can members just imagine the situation if National had lost? How bad would Bill English\u2019s mood have been then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022debd52327c9f468dbffc2afab2d1cf24\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he\u2019d be happy then. He\u2019d be leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9dd138d44db4a0d842f73010c3a69f2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! That is terrific\u2014that is terrific. He would have been happy then, because he would be leader\u2014\u201CEt tu, Bill!\u201D It is a wonderful thing to watch the body language on the front bench of the Government\u2014absolutely wonderful. Every time the poll ratings go up, Bill English\u2019s face goes down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThree things are wrong with this bill: it is bad process, it is bad economics, and it is bad for working Kiwis. The bad process stuff is obvious, is it not? The Government did not even put the bill on the Table before the debate started. It is not sending it to a select committee. What has happened to the flowering of democracy, the \u201CKey spring\u201D, in New Zealand? We cannot see that today. All I can see is a bill the National members must be ashamed of, because they are rushing it through all stages, with no opportunity for affected New Zealanders to comment and no opportunity for the detail of the bill to be tested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EYou know, this bill is so shoddy that even the commentary on it says it is rubbish. It does not meet the Government standards for a regulatory impact assessment, according to page 10. The Government has not quantified the effects of the bill. It does not know whether the removal of the research and development tax credit will push innovation up or down. It does not know the net effect of the KiwiSaver changes, but we established yesterday\u2014thanks to Dr Cullen\u2014that it is not allowing for any growth in enrolments. So that move to make it easier for New Zealanders to enrol\u2014that minimum 2 percent\u2014is something we know the truth about, ladies and gentlemen: it is a cap. It is a maximum, because that is the default level that people will enrol at. That is all an employer will be allowed to subsidise, and that is bad for workers. It is bad for Kiwis, who need to save. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EYou know, the macro effects of this legislation are rubbish. If there is a short-term recession problem and the pump needs to be primed, the last thing to do is to have a long-term tax cut. Why is that? Well, there are two things. Firstly, any economist knows that the multiplier on Government spending is bigger than the multiplier on a tax cut. Why is that? Because if investment is directed well, it flows through the economy. If there is a tax cut, people spend part of it on stupid consumption items, they spend some on investment goods, and they save some away. That does not ricochet through the economy, so the multiplier on a tax cut is lower than the multiplier on good investment. That is why this measure is bad economics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that this is a long-term measure to address a short-term problem. It is a bill that does not work. The idea is to match a short-term problem with a short-term measure. So one does a temporary stimulus package, and does not lock in a structural tax cut that will blow out the debt track. But, hey, if National is confident about that debt track, I say it should show it to us. Why does it not tell New Zealanders the truth about where gross sovereign debt will get to in 20 years\u2019 time? National has not told New Zealand that, because it is deeply, deeply ashamed about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EEven Treasury, in its briefing to incoming Ministers\u2014I tell Bill English that it is on about page 10, if he has not got that far\u2014tells us that this fiscal stimulus is not required. That is because there is $13 billion of pump priming, of which $9 billion came in October with Labour\u2019s package. Two-thirds of it has already been done, and we spent\u2014as Dr Cullen said\u2014right up to the maximum of where we felt that we could go, based on the information that we had, up to the point where we were borrowing to fund a tax cut, which is bad policy and bad economics. Ignoring Treasury advice and, like Rip Van Winkle, ignoring the entire meltdown of the global financial market, Mr English has done the politically populist thing. He says we should have a tax cut. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EA tax cut sounds wonderful, until one works out who gets what. I say to members and to those who are listening that the answer is that if a person earns less than the average wage, less than $44,000, that person will lose, because National will have taken off the KiwiSaver enrolment subsidy. National is to cut $3.5 billion from KiwiSaver funding. That has to come from somewhere, and it will come from the workers\u2014from the poor, as usual. And who gets what? Well, someone on $750,000 a year, a nice income for a good National Party supporter, will get $200 a week in tax cuts, which that person does not need. A person on the average wage of $45,000 will get $1.92 a week. Whoopee! That will really help at Christmas, will it not, even if one has not lost one\u2019s job because of the 90-day sacking bill. I thank Mr English very much for the kinder, gentler, National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe smiley face of National is hopping from cloud to cloud, forgetting to tell people the truth about what was in its policy. What about that superannuation tax credit that National just forgot to mention\u2014that it was cutting the net rate from 4 percent to 3.4 percent. That would not really have pleased the oldies if they had been told about it ahead of time, so National did not tell them. The reason that we do not get to test these things is that there is no select committee process. This bill is being rammed through. National knows this bill is not well-thought-out. It is bad economics; it is bad for people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThis bill will make a lot of our old structural problems worse. Those problems were that people were spending a bit too much because their house valuations were going up, and they figured that they could take afford to take on a bit more debt. People did spend beyond their means; there is good evidence of that. But this bill makes that problem worse. It says National will cushion the effects of a short-term recession with a tax cut. The money will not go into investments; it will not do anything for productivity. That was National\u2019s theme in the Speech from the Throne, just yesterday, when it said it would go for growth and productivity. Nothing in this bill will go into growth; it will go into wasteful spending and into things that will not help our innovators. The bill will not help our exporters, will not help our dynamic companies, and will not help families who are in need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI ask what the bill was supposed to be about. What was it supposed to do, and what was the point of this bill? Was it to deliver on an election promise? What did National campaign on? It campaigned on the promise of good, open Government, and a fresh start for New Zealand. Do members remember those words? Well, they lasted about a day into the business of the House. The fresh start for Government meant doing away with the select committee process. It meant doing away with giving the Opposition adequate notice, in order for it to prepare a defence. It meant doing away with the constitutional safeguards that New Zealanders hold dear. If the process around this bill is anything to go by, let alone the 90-day Employment Relations Act amendment bill outrage that is coming later this week, New Zealanders are in for a very, very tough time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EHey, members should not feel sorry for us. We are professionals. We understand that we are here to serve the public. We know that when the public wants us to serve them, we will be ready. Members should not feel sorry for us because we are in Opposition; that is another form of service. Members should feel sorry for New Zealanders who are going to suffer from the excesses of a Tory Government that is reverting to type on day one of holding office. They should feel sorry for New Zealanders who will suffer from the abuse of process and get bad economics delivered to them, with proposals that are ill-defined and badly quantified, do not meet regulatory impact standards, have effects that have not been quantified, and have loose and shoddy details. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThis bill is a nonsense. It is about who gets what\u2014and those who get it are the rich, and those who lose it are everyone with kids and an income of $44,000 a year or less. That is the truth of it, and that is why we strenuously oppose this bill. This Government has started the slide to 2011 on day one. This will be a one-term Government, because New Zealanders hate people saying one thing and doing another. They do not mind hardship if they have voted for it, but they really resent being sold something and getting something different from that. This bill is bad economics, it is bad for New Zealand, and it represents bad process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022 data-id=\u0022be4ccbf0aa80478b8780848b0546828c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be4ccbf0aa80478b8780848b0546828c\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E In speaking to the second reading of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, I want to say that given the speech of the previous speaker, the Hon David Cunliffe, he may well not last quite as long as the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board did. I think his colleagues were all murmuring as he spoke, and what happened last night was very indicative of the support they have for him. Earlier speakers\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and I think we are hearing them again\u2014are still fighting the battles of yesterday. They are still fighting the battles of yesteryear. I half expect something about the Viet Nam War and the Springbok Tour to come out, and maybe it will in speeches to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThe comments about process and select committees were interesting. I think almost every bill, amendment bill, and budgetary announcement on KiwiSaver was passed under urgency\u2014all bar one, the first bill. They were all passed under urgency. They did not go to a select committee, etc. The difference between this bill not going to a select committee and the various changes, Supplementary Order Papers, and amendments that were rammed through under the previous administration without their going to a select committee is a thing called the general election. The thrust of this bill went to the select committee of New Zealand in the general election. Part of our 100-day plan, part of our core philosophy, and part of our ongoing plan for New Zealand is, quite simply, an ongoing programme of sustainable tax cuts leading to growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThe previous speech was very revealing. The member spoke about people reverting to their true colours, or something along those lines. I could not believe my ears when he said that everybody knows that the multiplier on a tax gain is bigger than the multiplier on a tax cut. We now see the justification for Labour taking the top marginal rate from 33c to 39c. And I will concede that it was in its programme that it put before the public\u2014fair enough. But if we take what the finance spokesman said to its logical extreme, we find that he is saying, basically, that we should hike taxes. He spent about 3 minutes talking about the multiplier on tax cuts versus the multiplier on tax hikes. I ask whether Labour is revealing its hidden agenda, now that the election is over. Is it revealing what would have been in the mini-Budget of the previous Minister of Finance? Presumably that would have been in December if Labour had got in. I ask whether Labour would have actually hiked taxes, because the logic of the previous speaker\u2019s speech was about increasing taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221244bb3bd0d540f5966d5d38e09b6adb\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Why are taxes going up for people in Flaxmere?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cdb5eb92b9e4d50904184fbc871fe38\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: The gentleman who was the previous electorate member for \u014Ctaki asks why taxes are going up. He should turn to his left and ask that question of the gentleman who, over the last 9 years, was responsible for the greatest tax increase in New Zealand\u2019s history. If he wants to make some further comment, he should take a call later on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI still cannot understand the logic. If the previous member had actually said something along the lines that conditions are such-and-such and we need to maintain the status quo, perhaps I would have found it logical. But when that spokesperson talks about multipliers, I ask whether he is talking about hiking taxes. I ask what his policy is. Is his policy to hike taxes now? The logic of what that member just said totally contradicts what the previous Minister of Finance, who is sitting behind him, said in his Budget of May 2008 when he announced his first series of tax cuts. Dr Cullen himself is on record talking about ongoing personal tax cuts, and now you are contradicting him. The factions and splits within the defeated Labour Party are starting to come to the fore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022736a9849f4214d9db170e50d66993104\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sure you did not contradict Dr Cullen, as this member has indicated. Mr Speaker, the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith, has indicated that he will be very strict on the incorrect use of \u201Cyou\u201D, and I hope it will apply to the Government as well as the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d94f2df639b4ad89583f35724fc2426\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for bringing that to my attention. I apologise to you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EWe are starting to see some of the splits in the defeated Opposition come through. The Opposition members are contradicting each other on core policy, contradicting each other on their vision of what may be needed to take New Zealand forward. This proposal, the core policy in the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, went before the public of New Zealand, and 3 or 4 weeks ago over 1 million New Zealanders voted for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI will make a couple of other points about something someone spoke about yesterday, during the first reading. Opposition members talk about the debt to GDP ratio, and someone made fair play of that yesterday. I would like to note that in the 1990s, which the Opposition often talks about, the previous Prime Minister, Helen Clark, would often talk about a debt to GDP ratio of 40 percent, or even 45 percent at some stages, as being prudent. Yes, good global economic conditions took New Zealand\u2019s debt to GDP ratio down to about 17 or 18 percent. In the Budget of 2008, it was around those levels. Of course, as the skeletons started to come out of the closet, and as the ticking time bomb started to tick louder, we saw in the Pre-election Fiscal and Economic Update that it was forecast to nudge 30 percent, I think, with a decade of deficits. Of course, those deficits have to be funded in some way. It is interesting that when I point that out, the Opposition goes very quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI will raise two other points. Opposition members constantly talk about low-income earners. Well, I will make just a couple of points. There are many low-income earners in New Zealand\u2014the Opposition is quite right\u2014and that is because of the last 9 years of a Labour Government. Incomes have come down somewhat compared with those of comparable economies around the world. That is why there are a lot more lower-income people in New Zealand than in comparable economies, and that is why many of those people voted the National Party into Government, and threw the Labour Party out. I would like the member opposite, the Hon Darren Hughes, who is interjecting, to note that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EEveryone needs a doctor at some stage. We all want police, we all want chippies, we all want plumbers, and we all want good teachers. We want all those people, and, funnily enough, all those people are on the highest marginal tax rate in New Zealand, 39c. It is those people who have been leaving this country in droves for a brighter future elsewhere, after the last 9 years of a Labour Government. That is why they have been going across to Australia. We all have friends, family, and wh\u0101nau over there who are getting a higher after-tax income than they could get here after 9 years of the previous administration. Low-income earners in New Zealand have to pay more for their plumber, chippie, truckdriver\u2014you name it\u2014because they have all gone to Australia. We are trying to build an economy that is attractive enough to bring them home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI will make one other point. It has not been mentioned, but it needs to be mentioned, because there has been talk of debt funding, etc. Somebody was talking about debt projections, etc. Well, I ask what the total quantum of the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) mess is. The people over there in Opposition must have a fair bit of knowledge of it. I ask them for the total quantum. I ask them to give it to us to the nearest $50 million. The Government accounts are not narrowed down to the nearest cent; they are approximate, and there are contingent liabilities in there. You ask us for a debt projection; I ask you to put on the table all your knowledge about all the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b27b8b742b9f4036964d1be31b1e8ce9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278921f5613144e49bf8f76bd45801374\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know what the Hon Trevor Mallard is going to say. Members cannot use the word \u201Cyou\u201D. It brings the Speaker into the debate, and that is not allowed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8824608df77499db67092f4656d56ed\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise again, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI ask members opposite who have any knowledge of any other black holes, of any other ticking time bombs, to put them on the table. They should put them on the table so that we have full knowledge of them. Then, and only then, will you see the forward projections that you are demanding right now. I suspect that the reason you want those projections so badly is that you know there are more ticking time bombs to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThere are two questions left hanging. The ACC annual report did not have anything in it about this nonsense. Under the New Zealand International Financial Reporting Standards there is an obligation to put\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d3fa4487b50430bbac25d36d6f96314\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is not your report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0795e294e0048d699a4f6e60ca2074f\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: I did not say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa437d7f89be4043881ff83071ebc5dd\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s exactly what you said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c1d384d05243ed951c2bd31d6d4967\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot use the word \u201Cyou\u201D or \u201Cyour\u201D. Please confine your debate to the subject and do not use those terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022569a64978cc445448363adc60b6692aa\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I did not mean to use that word, and if I did I apologise. I meant to say \u201Cthe report\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EUnder New Zealand International Financial Reporting Standards, which the ACC\u2019s accounts and annual reports are prepared under, this mess should have been noted. The Government accounts are prepared under those standards, so the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update should have noted this mess\u2014at least in the contingent liabilities. Where was any mention of the ACC mess? Where was anything about the Government Shared Network mess? What other messes have we got coming?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders should be very, very fearful of the legacy of the previous administration. We are discovering more and more by the day, and it is not a pretty picture. Members opposite are fighting old battles, because they do not want to talk about the future, and they do not want to talk about the appalling state they left the books in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022b360029788a649adb6a5d84ab2647575\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b360029788a649adb6a5d84ab2647575\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The reason we are fighting old battles all over again is that the National Party is fighting its old positions all over again. This is 1990 all over again. What was the key phrase in yesterday\u2019s Speech from the Throne? It was \u201CWe\u2019re going for growth.\u201D Well, who made that slogan up? Ruth Richardson said in 1990 \u201CWe\u2019re going for growth.\u201D, and frightened the hell out of everybody as soon as she said it. What were the first two things that that Government did? It abolished employment equity and it started cutting the incomes of the poorest New Zealanders. What are this Government\u2019s first two measures? It is introducing fire-at-will provisions and it is cutting the incomes of many of the lowest-paid New Zealanders. This is 1990 all over again from the National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut the most extraordinary thing today was that Mr English, the Minister of Finance, gave a second reading speech in which he failed to answer a single question that was raised in the first reading debate, because he had no answers. All he did was say \u201COh, somebody in the Labour Party had some dirty tricks in the election campaign.\u201D Well, that is pretty rich, coming from the man who organised the leak of emails about Don Brash in 2005. That is pretty rich coming from that particular member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut he put up the most extraordinary argument, and I want to go over it again. He said that the Labour Party lost the election because it failed to put the National Party\u2019s policies under sufficient scrutiny. In other words, Mr English said that his policies were so weak in detail that if we had debated those policies in detail, National would have lost the election. That shows real confidence in what it went to the country on in 2008. That argument says \u201COur policies were rubbish, and why didn\u2019t you rubbish them and save me, the Minister of Finance, from having to move this rubbish policy through Parliament under urgency?\u201D. That, I think, is the most extraordinary argument I have ever heard from a Minister of Finance. Indeed, it went further. He said that because we did not do so, that was a justification for passing this rubbish policy. Goodness knows what else is going to be \u201Cjustified\u201D by us in being passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe attitude in Mr Foss\u2019s argument was that if something were in the National Party manifesto, it need not go to a select committee. Well, that is going to leave select committees free from the rest of the work for the next year or two, since presumably most of the work coming through is somewhere within the National Party manifesto.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThese questions were not answered by Mr English. Why is National increasing taxes on low-paid workers? Why is it increasing taxes on low and middle income families compared with what is now in the law\u2014not some announced policy by the previous Government but in the law\u2014to take place in 2010 and beyond? We have the ACT Party, which stands for cutting taxes no matter what, voting for increases in taxes in the House today. Why is the Government cutting research and development in the private sector? Why is it cutting savings? Why is it not costing its claim of an increased take-up with the lowering of 4 percent to 2 percent, and has it considered the issue of portability with Australia? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe are told that the whole point of National\u2019s policy is to stop people going to Australia, yet what is one of the main attractions of Australia for workers? Workers in Australia get a 9 percent payment into superannuation funds paid by their employers. Under KiwiSaver, workers are still going to pay 4 percent, but they can expect 9 or 10 percent to go into their superannuation fund. This bill will cut that back to 4 percent or 5 percent, and the worker could end up paying the full 4 percent contribution thanks to other changes that will come through later this week or sometime on Saturday. That is the reality. That is a real disincentive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut it is worse than that. If, as I believe is likely to be the case, the Australian Government says the superannuation portability is off the table because there is no longer a match between KiwiSaver and that Government\u2019s compulsory scheme, then Kiwis in Australia now will be locked into Australia. They will not be able to come back to New Zealand because they will not be able to get portability from their Australian scheme into KiwiSaver. Under portability they were going to be able to transfer their Australian funds into KiwiSaver; they were going to have the option of moving back. High-quality Australian professionals and managers were going to be able to come to New Zealand and continue a scheme, and be able to move back to Australia if they wanted to later in life, and that option, that choice, was important to attract people over here from Australia. So what is the purpose of doing this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EIt is clear that National has never thought through that issue. It is clear that National members have not talked to the Australian Government. It is clear from the stunned mullet looks on their faces that their caucus has never discussed this issue. It is clear they still do not know what it is they are doing in that particular respect. The member, Shane Ardern, can drive his own personal tractor up the stairs of Parliament as often as he likes; that is not going to bring anybody back from Australia. But having a proper superannuation scheme with portability will bring people back from Australia, despite a National Government within New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EOf course, the other thing we learnt from Mr English\u2014and I tell Mr Flavell that I hope M\u0101ori Party members were listening\u2014was that there has been a blow-out on Treaty settlements. Did Mr Flavell hear that? No, he did not hear that. He, as usual, whenever the National Party is talking, now puts his ear plugs in so he cannot hear what is being said, because he does not want to know. He has been parading around the marae, and at those huge hui with 10 or 12 people, with M\u0101ori activists, because the public was not supposed to know where the meetings were being held, saying: \u201CWe\u2019re going to deliver everything to you. We\u2019re going to deliver the ownership of the foreshore and seabed. We\u2019re going to deliver mana-enhancing measures all over the place.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWell, let us go through the mana-enhancing measures in this bill. There are increases in tax for those earning $14,000 to $24,000 a year. Does that sound like a group that might have a disproportionate M\u0101ori content within it? There are increases in taxes on families\u2014all families with kids\u2014earning under $44,000 a year. Does that sound disproportionately like M\u0101ori families? Has this member enhanced the mana of those families in voting for those increases in taxes? He voted for it yesterday. He will vote for it today, and he will vote again and again and again. I tell Mr Flavell that the cock will not crow just three times; it will crow many times during this day today. He will not be such a big man on the marae now when he goes back. He is going to have to explain, with Mita Ririnui present, why he voted to increase taxes on his constituents. Why will he be voting for a measure that enables lower-income workers with very little bargaining power to have the employer contribution to KiwiSaver transferred to the employee? Does that sound like a group of workers who are disproportionately M\u0101ori? It sounds like it to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe five M\u0101ori Party MPs have sold their souls for not even a mess of pottage\u2014for not even a spoonful of pottage. They have sold their souls for an empty promise to enhance not the mana of M\u0101ori but their own mana. That is what that agreement was about, and they are launching down the same track as the New Zealand First M\u0101ori MPs from 1996 to 1999. They will be dog tucker at the 2011 election, because their mana is not going to be enhanced. Mrs Turia can drive up with the entire wh\u0101nau in the VIP car to the 2011 election campaign, and Mr Sharples can drive up to his marae in the VIP car in 2011, but they will find silence on the marae, which is the bit that will tell them they are in the most trouble. That is what they will find in that particular regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThis bill cuts private sector research and development investment. It is a dumber economy. It increases taxes on low-paid individuals. and it increases taxes on superannuitants and beneficiaries who are earning a bit more and working a bit more, trying to make their way in the world; it cuts taxes for the chief executive of Telecom. It produces a dumber society with slightly lower taxes, lower growth rates, lower productivity, and greater inequality, and more people will stay in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd700b3c341743b7a1660d404a73343b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd700b3c341743b7a1660d404a73343b\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the second reading of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. The Green Party will be voting against this bill for a number of reasons. The first reason is that we think we can use the tax system to incentivise activities or to disincentivise, and in the first instance this bill decreases incentives to save. Green Party members in general have supported the KiwiSaver scheme. The scheme has always had some problems; it was a far from perfect scheme. We were dubious about whether it would increase the overall savings rates or whether it would simply transfer them. We were worried about the impact on Government savings, due to the cost of the scheme. We were also worried that we were using taxes to subsidise inequality in retirement income between those who could afford to save and those who could not. Nonetheless, it seemed to us that the KiwiSaver scheme was a sensible approach to try to increase savings. We think that the good part of this bill is that it introduces the 2 percent option, which the Green Party always supported, and there was a lot of support in the select committee for that. We also think that allowing low-income earners to get the full $20 a week is a positive thing. But overall the bill decreases incentives to save.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party supports tax shifting. We support taking taxes off incomes and putting it on resource use and pollution. However, this bill does a different kind of tax shifting. It takes tax incentives off savings to give income tax cuts. In terms of a long-term strategy for a nation with a chronic current account deficit, we think that it does not make any sense to reduce incentives to save. From our point of view, we think that we need to increase incentives to save. Having a bill\u2014one of the first bills that the Government has brought into the House\u2014that actually decreases incentives to save does not make any sense to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe second reason concerns the stimulus package. Is this the best way to deliver a stimulus package? When we pass on these income tax cuts, they are going to be either spent or saved, in one form or another. If they are spent, then a good proportion of that spending will be on imported goods\u2014that is, the Government will borrow money from overseas in order to pass on income tax cuts so that people can then purchase goods from overseas. Effectively, we are borrowing money from overseas in order to stimulate someone else\u2019s economy. A large part of the income tax cuts will simply be used to stimulate someone else\u2019s economy, as people purchase goods and services from overseas. It seems to us that this is not the most sensible way to set up a stimulus package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe other thing that will happen is that if people save, that will not have any stimulatory effect, at all. That is not necessarily a bad thing, in order to increase savings and to reduce household debt, but it is certainly not a good way to stimulate economic activity. It seems to us that if we were to put together a sensible economic stimulus package to save New Zealanders\u2019 jobs, and to keep the economy ticking over at a time of recession, then it would be much better to invest in infrastructure than to have tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWe think that the infrastructure we should be focusing on should be infrastructure that does not produce demand for imported goods. One of the best ways to have that, of course, is to build houses, and to have home insulation. This country desperately needs affordable housing. There is a tremendous shortage of affordable housing. If people could have affordable housing, they would be far less in need of income tax cuts. What better way is there to build affordable housing than to build the kinds of houses that the Prime Minister grew up in? The Prime Minister got a hand up so that he could get ahead in the world, because he had access to State housing. But now the Government has decided to cap State housing so that other people cannot get a hand up. It seems to me that we should give a hand up to people so that they can have affordable housing. Building infrastructure is a much better way to have a stimulus package than simply giving out income tax cuts. It is a much better way to stimulate an economy, and it means we get something that is worthwhile, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EBuilding sustainable infrastructure not only is a much more sensible stimulus package but means we get long-term investment in our society and our economy. If we invest in public transport, for example, we can prepare ourselves for the future in which climate emissions will be constrained, because, unlike the ACT Party, the world has understood science. The world is getting its head around climate change, and we need to invest in public transport. In the long term, also, oil prices will continue to go up, and we need a world in which we have the capacity to get around. With public transport we would be producing fewer greenhouse emissions and using less oil, so actually having a stimulus package that invests in sustainable transport is a much better option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EA much better option, also, is to invest in sewerage schemes. It is a disgrace that right around this country we have very poor-quality sewerage schemes that are pouring sewage into our harbours, and people are unwilling or ashamed to eat the food from those harbours because it is contaminated. It is not very good for our tourism industry, either. If I were the Minister of Tourism, I would be very interested in a stimulus package that improved the sewerage schemes around our country, so that tourists would not come here and discover that the beaches make them sick. That seems to me a much better stimulus package than giving income tax cuts, which will simply result in a very short-term stimulus to someone else\u2019s economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWe should also be investing in trees. Planting trees on eroding land would be a much better stimulus package than these tax cuts. We have a major problem across this country of eroding land and land eroding into rivers, and the best thing to do about it is to plant trees, which is good for our greenhouse emissions. One of the problems we will have is that our greenhouse emissions will go through the roof, and that will be incredibly expensive for us as a nation and it will be a major problem for our taxpayers. Taxpayers will have to foot the bill, because this Government wants to weaken the emissions trading scheme so that taxpayers pick up more of the debt. If we plant trees on eroding lands, not only will we reduce erosion into our rivers and lakes but we will also sequester carbon, which will mean that we have fewer greenhouse emissions, less debt, and less of an impact on the taxpayer. It seems to me that a much more sensible stimulus package is to employ people to plant trees on eroding land. We should be focused on the long-term future of our economy. Making the investments in infrastructure that we will need for the long term is a much more sensible way to deliver a stimulus package than having a set of tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThen we come to the process issue about this bill. It is with sadness, really, that I see that the explanatory note says \u201CHowever, due to the time frames involved, the RIA consultation requirements have not been met.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022616b4c6d6c5941f1858578b72ae62cc2\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s the Minister in charge of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a4382a314bc4f4ba4530c17cd8c5536\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister in charge, the new regulatory responsibility Minister, or whatever he is called, is of course the ACT member, the Hon Rodney Hide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EIt seems to me extraordinary that the very first bill that this new Government brings in does not have a proper regulatory impact assessment. There has not been sufficient time for the very first bill to have a regulatory impact assessment. So all that talk was bunkum\u2014it does not mean anything. When it comes down to it, it is a case of just ramming the bill through. Who cares about a proper regulatory impact assessment? After all, the Government members will just ram the bill through so they can deliver tax cuts to their mates. So that is an incredible act of hypocrisy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThen we come to the idea of a broad-based tax rate. This bill talks a lot about how we need low tax rates and a broad-based tax system. One of the ways to do that\u2014and it says this in the notes on the bill\u2014is to tax investment gains. I notice that even though there is support for a low-rate, broad-based tax bill, what we are really getting are just lower rates that are not broad-based. There is no move within this bill to actually broaden the tax base to cover capital gains, which is something that is missing in the New Zealand tax system\u2014unlike the systems of pretty much every other OECD country. The Green Party supports a capital gains tax\u2014excluding the primary family home\u2014to broaden the tax base, which is, supposedly, one of the objectives of this bill. But the bill does not actually broaden the tax base. We also think it should broaden the tax base by taxing resources. We would like to see some of those elements in the bill, but unfortunately they are not there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI will not touch on the issue of research and development, because I think that has been covered extensively in this discussion, but I will note the inequity of all this. I asked the Parliamentary Library to do some work about it. I asked how much less in tax someone earning $30,000 a year will pay after 1 April 2011. They say that under this bill that person will pay $160 less per year. Someone earning $250,000 will pay $5,160 less income tax per year. So that does not seem to me to be a very fair or progressive way to run the tax system, and it looks as if the Government is just passing a bill that will benefit rich people at the expense of poor people. Why would it support a system whereby someone on $30,000 gets only $160 less tax while someone earning a quarter of a million dollars pays $5,000 less tax? That does not seem to me to be a very fair system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThis bill has not been well thought out. It is being rammed through. It is not a good bill. It gives bad incentives. Why does the Government not go and have a think about it, and come up with a better bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022abe8d24cd0674de49d5fa4d4e826fff3\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcd64e8f6ebf4ee1a551949ce562c0a8\u0022\u003EBills\u2014Availability in Urgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u002292ac59ad99184b60836b6177e4a5635d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292ac59ad99184b60836b6177e4a5635d\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Over three-quarters of an hour ago the Opposition raised with you the point that subsequent bills in the urgency motion were not on the Table of the House and the Opposition was not being given the opportunity to read the bills before we were due to debate them. You undertook to get that situation resolved for us, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I see that the bills are still not present for us to look at. We have some substantial pieces of legislation coming before us that we have not had a chance to read before the debate on them. I would like to know what progress you have made since you undertook to do that for the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022aee0d246a47b40a692a3e412b024200a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aee0d246a47b40a692a3e412b024200a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have sought advice. Standing Order 263 sets out the general rule, but it does not deal specifically with bills introduced under urgency. There is no requirement to table a bill prior to its introduction, but bills must be tabled at their introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u002218e5be17e1e9428e92b9581f82ca5228\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218e5be17e1e9428e92b9581f82ca5228\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know you said that under urgency the situation is a little less clear than what it would normally be. In the normal course of events a bill is introduced, and it sits on the Table for 3 days before it is available for a first reading, thereby giving everybody the chance to read it before the debate. Urgency does change those rules slightly, and you have informed the House of that. But I wonder whether the junior Government whip could give the House an indication as to when members of Parliament might have the chance to look over legislation that we are soon to be debating. We had an understanding from the Government that it will make that information available, but nothing seems to be happening. We need to get some sense of clarity on that, because we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a6b233c8f7044c6928690a1570120d9\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s on the phone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294347466c32148d18820ca1dee2ad0b5\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I see he is on the phone now. He may well be on the phone to the Leader of the House to get that information. But it has now been quite some time since the House took urgency, and in terms of decency and fairness we need the chance to be able to read bills that will be coming up for debate directly after this one. It is just not right to be doing things in this way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022fde2ad83667f4aa3834c18bd57023438\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fde2ad83667f4aa3834c18bd57023438\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the point you raise. There is, however, no requirement for a bill to be tabled prior to its introduction, but it must be tabled at the time of its introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab071116885148b4b4d877f9e366ac89\u0022\u003ETaxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221bb8c4ddcfcb4943811e13f8217e63dd\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000099\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022f65a7b4d00b844338a63e6ccf677924f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f65a7b4d00b844338a63e6ccf677924f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254e9408cc6fe41449de4d821687e1e7b\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dcc4b48043243b69ef2008d404021ac\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member seeking the call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aca47399ed5c4d45a13f2df243611a11\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b3e8ba296644044aa5f88ac92e532ec\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You have not given your maiden speech. If you were to speak now, it would be deemed to be your maiden speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228264151b3e9547a2862c932f9d6a7087\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e0308dd6d534ccf8c7cab43d49d9140\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is? I take it that the member is seeking the call. If the member speaks now, his speech will be regarded as his maiden speech. He will not get another chance to make a maiden speech if he speaks now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250036b5e840548dba4534984129bd494\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: I pass the call, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u0022547c3bcc75384bf78c064642c0e5b7d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022547c3bcc75384bf78c064642c0e5b7d9\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Kiwis are breathing a sign of relief at the speed with which this new Government is addressing the work order that we took to the electorate over the election period. We have put our new bill on the Table, and we are making progress already. You know, this is what New Zealanders have been wanting for the last 9 years\u2014a Government that is focused on its agenda, focused on the issues that matter, and making progress. Even just in the last few weeks I have been out in my electorate of Napier, talking to my constituents. Do members know what they are saying? They are saying \u201CThank God we have a Government in there now that is focused on the issues and on taking this country forward.\u201D That is what they have seen, have they not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EOur constituents have seen a Government put together within 7 or 8 days\u2014quick-smart action. They then saw a Cabinet put together within a couple of weeks\u2014action again. Then our Prime Minister\u2014an aspirational Prime Minister\u2014quickly went to APEC, then to London, to get a feel for the world financial crisis and an understanding of what global leaders were doing with that crisis. Then he came back here and made sure that the promises we took to the electorate were being delivered today. So here we are in the second reading of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, which delivers on that agenda. That is why constituents out there are saying \u201CThank goodness we are seeing a Government that is focused on the issues and taking the game forward for us.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EThe second reading of this bill includes changes to personal tax rates and thresholds, and I will talk to that in some detail as we go through it. It also includes the introduction of a new independent earner credit for middle-income New Zealanders. Those are the Kiwis out there, the battlers, who have continued to be pushed into higher tax brackets\u2014the teachers, the policemen, and the wharfies. They have been the traditional constituency of the Labour Party, but they have been forgotten about by that party over there and they have been pushed into continually higher and higher brackets. That is why those members are sitting on that side of the House today and we are sitting on this side. We are focused on the issues and on addressing those tax thresholds. We are bringing those hard-working Kiwis back to a level of taxation that is affordable for them, and where they can ensure they can put bread on the table for their families. Those families do not have access to the support that has been delivered over the last 3 years. They have continued to be pushed into higher and higher tax brackets, and that has hurt them, so we are unashamedly focused on those taxpayers in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EThe third area I will focus on is the changes being made to KiwiSaver, making it more affordable and sustainable. I will also touch on the repeal of the research and development tax credit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EIt is important that this bill be passed into law and passed into law quickly. We made that commitment to the New Zealand electorate. Today we have heard speeches from the other side of the House saying that there is no regulatory statement, or that the bill is not going to a select committee. But we made it clear to the electorate that we had a 100-day agenda. There is no confusion out there among the public about that. We told them on countless occasions, in every newspaper in the country\u2014except for the Melbourne Age newspaper, which was where, as my leader pointed out the other day, many members of the Labour Party were flicking around in the underground and trying to dig up dirt on our leader. No, it was not in the headlines of that paper, so they probably missed it. But our 100-day agenda was in the Dominion Post and the New Zealand Herald, and in just about every major daily, so Kiwis knew we had a big agenda, and they are proud to see a Government standing up there now and delivering on that agenda. I think it is absolutely fantastic; I am proud of that, and it is great to see us taking this forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EI will also talk about the repeal of the research and development tax credit, which is a tough decision we had to make when we laid out our tax cut agenda. We knew that that would cost some money, and we had to make some hard calls going into the election. Again, we stood on the platform and said that these were the things we would address. When Labour rolled out their one or two policies that had any innovation at the election, there was no costing around those. There was no \u201COh, we\u2019ll actually change this and pull that back.\u201D. There was absolutely no costing whatsoever above the pre-election fiscal update; it was an absolute joke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EAnyway, I will focus on the tax changes we are talking about and look at the provisions of the bill. As members have heard, there are reductions to personal tax rates, and particularly to thresholds. As I said earlier, the hard workers of our community\u2014the social workers, the teachers, the wharfies\u2014who have got into higher and higher tax brackets will actually have those thresholds brought backwards. That will not increase tax. I do not know what papers the Government is looking at, but if we look at tables for 1 April 2009 we see that that middle-income tax threshold is coming back to $48,000, so people will pay only 21c in the dollar on an income of under $48,000. By 1 April 2010 that threshold will increase to $50,000, so again we are focusing on those in that middle-income bracket, and they will still pay only 21c in the dollar. Then from 1 April 2011 the rate for that threshold will actually move down to 20 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022994819cf1a6d4a109d165aad3e6767d6\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Why are you putting taxes up for poor people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292483d1555fe44deaa766f373095faf5\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: So I say to Moana Mackey that everybody benefits from that: if they are earning anything between $14,000 and $50,000 they will benefit from a reduction from 21 percent to 20 percent. I ask Moana Mackey to tell me how they would not benefit from that. How would they not benefit from that? That is a reduction from 21 percent to 20 percent. Those lower-income earners\u2014we are not talking only about middle-income earners here; we are talking about lower-income earners\u2014will benefit not only from the increase in the threshold level but also from the reduction of the rate from 21 percent to 20 percent. Hold on, I will say that again: we are taking the tax level from 21 percent to 20 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022adaebfc758ea491dabe21a1f6b437a9f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07e3e0a81e64faa98eb6f0d62bab7ef\u0022\u003EHon Phil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Is that up or down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293292cda8db341b6be91e8d3b55a8ba9\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Hold on\u2014that is down! That is for a threshold of between $14,000 and $50,000. I would have thought that that covered a fair chunk of middle-income New Zealand, and probably an even bigger chunk of lower-income New Zealand. I ask those members to tell me how people will not benefit from that. Oh, it has all gone quiet over there now! This tax bill will actually deliver the changes we need, and I think it is fantastic. The cuts will be delivered through the PAYE system, which will be good for employees, and if someone is an independent contractor, that person will be able to have that delivered through his or her tax return at the end of the year. There will be no immediate changes to the tax rate structure that applies to portfolio investments, but that will be addressed by 1 April 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EI just want to talk about the independent earner tax credit. This tax credit really hits those battlers out there who have had no benefit from the Working for Families tax credits. There are 600,000 people who qualify for this\u2014600,000 of the hardest-working New Zealanders who go out there, day in, day out, paying tax and allowing our Government to make tough decisions about how we allocate that money. Let us understand that it is not our money; it is theirs, and 600,000 Kiwis have totally missed out on that. They have been part of threshold rises the whole way, and they have just been taxed and taxed, more and more. It is time we were dealing with that through the independent earner tax credit, which will ensure that we start to deliver\u2014and I say \u201Cstart\u201D to deliver\u2014some rebate back to those middle-income earners. So from next year the credit will be worth $10 a week, rising to $15 per week from 2010. It will be abated at 13c for every dollar of income earned over $44,000 and, as I have said, 630,000 people will qualify. Again, I ask how that is not addressing a big chunk of the electorate. That 630,000 is a huge proportion of our workforce being addressed. They have not had even one iota of tax reduction in 9 long years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EI think this bill is a massive step in the right direction. We have gone out to the electorate and told them that we will deliver tax cuts, and here we are, within 32 days, out there actually doing that\u2014delivering on our promises, building trust, and delivering on what John Key said he would do. This is a good bill, and in the second reading I recommend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022 data-id=\u002231fb47769b474e749fca23c3bfa96941\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231fb47769b474e749fca23c3bfa96941\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have looked through the Standing Orders and the Speakers\u2019 rulings, and I can find no rule that precludes a new MP from speaking under urgency because if he or she did so, then he or she would have to forgo his or her maiden speech. The ACT Party agreed to the Address in Reply debate being broken into to do this urgency on the basis that we would be able to contribute to the debate. Mr Deputy Speaker, what you have done, I think, is make a new ruling\u2014which is your right as Deputy Speaker\u2014which essentially precludes the ACT Party from contributing to this important debate. I have two MPs here who are willing and ready to contribute, and I would like you either to point out to me the Standing Order or Speaker\u2019s ruling that says that if John Boscawen or David Garrett speaks under urgency, he therefore cannot give a maiden speech in the Address in Reply debate when Parliament resumes it, or to tell the House that you are making a new ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002234187af5442846909be3db03b39073c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234187af5442846909be3db03b39073c3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E It might seem somewhat unusual for me to come to the aid of Mr Hide, but I think the position that he has outlined is correct. There is an expectation that maiden speeches are made as part of the Address in Reply debate. That does not necessarily have to be the case, but as far as the Standing Orders are concerned, and given the times available and the approach we are taking, there is certainly that expectation. I am going a long way back in my memory, but I have vague memories of members back in the 1980s speaking on Committee stages of bills, or in fact on estimates, before they made their maiden speeches. They certainly asked questions before they made their maiden speeches. So the idea that people cannot get on their feet before their maiden speech, or that by getting on their feet they lose their right to a maiden speech, I think is incorrect. Mr Deputy Speaker, if it would help you, I indicate that the Labour Opposition would not object to a leave-type arrangement in order to protect you, but I think your ruling was wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u00229d4977bcf0b841a99b7634a272071c24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d4977bcf0b841a99b7634a272071c24\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Mallard. The Standing Orders allow maiden speeches to be made during the Address in Reply debate\u2014that is Standing Order 350\u2014and provide for additional time to be made available for members to make maiden statements. The Address in Reply debate takes precedence over other business, and therefore in normal circumstances new members would make their maiden speeches before speaking in any other debate. One of the consequences of our adjourning the Address in Reply debate is that the opportunity for maiden speeches has been delayed. I take on board the point that Mr Mallard just made, and I am prepared to allow the member John Boscawen to seek leave to speak, if that is the wish of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002260225551162e4cb7bc6c6381d0c860f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260225551162e4cb7bc6c6381d0c860f3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think I would prefer you to go further than that, to start with, and to rule that the speech he shall give is not a maiden speech, because it is not part of the Address in Reply debate. I think we should not have to seek leave to deviate from a ruling that appears to be wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa25b6bd4ffd4f30941efea789816018\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I will seek some advice from the Clerk. I am prepared to allow John Boscawen to take the call. I make it clear that his speech is not his maiden speech. He will speak for 10 minutes, with a warning bell at 8 minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u00228efddd4a293741d49de3cc7d824609b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228efddd4a293741d49de3cc7d824609b2\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have a question: if this speech is allowed to occur, what precedent does that set for the rest of the debate on the items in the urgency motion in terms of allowing new members to take calls in the Committee stage and other stages of debate? I need to have that question answered first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022118c6511f2824d0293b976d979f3df8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022118c6511f2824d0293b976d979f3df8c\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The point is that it is not a precedent. The point that Mr Mallard and I are making is that it is perfectly within an MP\u2019s right to stand up and take a call to speak in Parliament, and then, when we go back into the Address in Reply debate, to give his or her maiden speech. The Deputy Speaker is not making a precedent with this ruling; the precedent would be to say that new MPs cannot speak under urgency unless they forgo making their maiden speeches. This is not a precedent ruling; it is simply the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c55719ad9c094893bd52bc691fdcab02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c55719ad9c094893bd52bc691fdcab02\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I would go one step further than Rodney Hide has gone. It is not a precedent, because it is not new, in my understanding. But to answer the question the junior Government whip asked, I say that it is clear that other new members will also be able to speak in the first readings of bills, the Committee stages, and the second and third readings and not lose their maiden status. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u0022df6235d7ca7f49f195202021290a0430\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df6235d7ca7f49f195202021290a0430\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I want to indicate to ACT that if that is the case, then there is not a clear ruling, and that we would deny leave for that request.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228610d7998a564c038922dd4c70835030\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We do not need to ask for leave. There is no precedent being set. I shall seek further advice, if members will wait for just one moment. Yes, I can confirm that allowing a new member to speak now does not curtail his or her opportunity to make a maiden speech of 15 minutes during the Address in Reply debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022 data-id=\u0022930d1ce840e74bb6b6e81bd7516036ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022930d1ce840e74bb6b6e81bd7516036ae\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Deputy Speaker, and I thank Mr Mallard\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9b47b1cdc7844c3b9224fe0877da962\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour Opposition is here to help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e91bceb214af4f31aa5c2399e72a9fcf\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Labour Opposition, and I say long may it remain the Labour Opposition. I am proud to be part of the new National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government, and to speak in support\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b671310046e74673816edcb5b1581795\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Say it again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fece7641c0be406ab604dcb87a9d50d4\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I will say it again. I am proud to be part of the new National - M\u0101ori Party - ACT Government, and to speak in support of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EI will start by referring back to yesterday\u2019s Speech from the Throne. I quote: \u201CThe driving goal of the new Government will be to grow the New Zealand economy in order to deliver greater prosperity, security and opportunities to all New Zealanders.\u201D The driving goal will be to grow the New Zealand economy in order to deliver greater prosperity, security, and opportunities for all New Zealanders, and nothing is more fundamental to driving prosperity than a taxation system that encourages thrift, enterprise, and hard work. How appropriate it is that one of the first moves by the new National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government is the introduction of this tax bill, which makes a number of significant changes to our taxation system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EFirst of all, the bill introduces a regime where, by 1 April 2011, 80 percent of taxpayers will be paying 20c or less in every dollar in tax. Secondly, it introduces a reduction in the top marginal tax rate\u2014initially from 39 percent to 38 percent, and then to 37 percent. I say that that is the first step, because I believe that the top marginal tax rate should be a lot lower than 37 percent. I thought it was very appropriate that the Hon Michael Cullen asked a question of the House a few minutes ago, when he asked what the main attraction was of going to Australia. What is the main attraction of going to Australia? Let me tell Dr Cullen that the main attraction of going to Australia is the standard of living in Australia, where net wages after tax are a full 25 percent higher than in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EWhat a contrast there has been between the first move of the National Government and the first move of the previous Labour Government. When the Labour Government first came to power in 1999, it moved to increase the top marginal tax rate from 33c in the dollar to 39c in the dollar. Since that time we have had the Labour Government\u2019s 2001 McLeod Tax Review, which recommended that the top marginal tax rate should drop back from 39c in the dollar to 33c in the dollar. Did the previous Labour Government listen to the advice of its own advisers on the McLeod Tax Review? No, it did not. I say that this is the first move of the National Government in this area, because we in the ACT Party believe that the top marginal tax rate should be a lot lower than 37c in the dollar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EWhen Dr Cullen introduced the bill in 1999 to increase the top marginal tax rate, he said that 95 percent of people would not be asked to pay more tax; instead, only the top 5 percent of income earners would pay more. That has never been the case, and over the last 9 years more and more New Zealanders have moved into the top income threshold of $60,000. More and more New Zealanders have been penalised for working hard and making sacrifices in order to get on and improve their lives. They have been penalised for doing that with the \u201Cenvy tax\u201D of 39c in the dollar. That overtaxation has cost New Zealand families hundreds of millions of dollars. It has cost New Zealanders jobs, growth, and lost opportunities. Why is that the case? It is because the taxation system has sent a message to all New Zealanders that we do not recognise hard work. It tells them we do not recognise hard work, thrift, and enterprise. It says we want to have a regime in New Zealand that penalises people who want to study, go into higher paying jobs, work hard, and try to provide a higher standard of living for their families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EMy colleague the Hon Sir Roger Douglas commented on Government expenditure in his speech to the House yesterday. He talked about how the rate of Government expenditure had increased over and above the rate of inflation by $18 billion over the term of the last Labour Government\u2014by $1,000 a month, or $12,000 a year, per capita. In order to have lower taxes, one has to first get Government expenditure under control. By allowing Government expenditure to grow by more than the rate of inflation on a per capita basis, Labour has cost the average income earner in New Zealand over $12,000 a year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Cullen\u2014who asked what the main attraction was for people to go to Australia\u2014that the main attraction is for people to enjoy a higher standard of living, with a top marginal tax rate that does not cut well into incomes in excess of $100,000. What has the regime been under Mr Cullen\u2019s Government? It has been a top marginal tax rate of 39c in the dollar on income over $60,000 a year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party, as the party that encourages individual responsibility, enterprise, and thrift, has always opposed Labour\u2019s tax hikes. ACT has been the only party in this House that has been consistent in its approach to tax. We have advocated tax cuts since the party\u2019s inception in the mid-1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224767028e13394db084046b91ab8d555a\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the member voting for increases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022107f598e0d61499cbafd17d2f953ed10\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am voting for a reduction in the top marginal tax rate from 39c in the dollar to 37c in the dollar, and I am saying that it is far too high at 37c in the dollar. I say to the member that if his Government had managed to control Government expenditure and keep increases to the rate of inflation, the average New Zealander on the average income in this country would be $1,000 a month, or $12,000 a year, better off. I campaigned at the last election on a policy that would hold increases in Government expenditure, going forward from 2009, at no more than the rate of inflation. We are five MPs, and by 2011 we expect to be a lot more than five MPS. Our forecasts show that if we can maintain increases in Government expenditure at a rate of no more than the rate of inflation, by 2018 we can have a flat marginal tax rate of 20c in the dollar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EIn 2005, the Labour Party had the opportunity to reduce the tax burden on hard-working New Zealanders. If the Labour Government had implemented the tax rates that the ACT Party suggested at that time, the previous Government could have added 1 to 1.5 percent growth in the economy, which would have put New Zealand in a much better position to cope with the recession that we are now in. We have now led the OECD countries into the recession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EThis bill talks about tax rates, changes to KiwiSaver, and a number of other tax-related issues. Let us talk about KiwiSaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262ebbfae34ea469c8365bcb34d257ba5\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, let\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aa3e5c31e2b43c19e7e3aa973df7a11\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s talk about KiwiSaver, and let us talk about the people that you purport to represent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226de032e23f2445c79a0686a41af34f77\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot use the word \u201Cyou\u201D. That word brings the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255bb9aeaeb004824bde6e076236dcd79\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker. We have 800,000 people enrolled with KiwiSaver, and, without doubt, KiwiSaver has been a tremendous success\u2014far in excess of what the Labour Government expected. But we have to look at who those 800,000 people are. Are they ordinary working men and women on the average ordinary wage? Can those people afford 4 percent, or are they people who have been attracted by the massive incentives, and particularly parents who have encouraged their children\u2014and infant children in some instances\u2014to take advantage of the very generous incentives? As the Hon Bill English said when introducing this bill, the recession is now upon us, and we have reached the stage where we can no longer afford those incentives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EIf we are to improve the livelihoods and living standards of ordinary New Zealanders, we have to increase productivity in this country. There is more to it than reducing taxes. There is more to it than the changes to the KiwiSaver scheme. There is a need to reform the Resource Management Act. There is a need to build infrastructure. There is a need to improve the roading system, and to complete the roading system in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EThank you for the opportunity to speak. I say the ACT Party will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u00223346fc9a452f43d59f5fadd2ab08a80b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223346fc9a452f43d59f5fadd2ab08a80b\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I congratulate the previous speaker, John Boscawen, on taking the opportunity to make a speech on this occasion, and I say that that is about all I agree with him on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI repeat one of the comments I made to Sir Roger Douglas last night\u2014that is, that I am very, very surprised that the ACT Party is supporting a bill that increases tax for quite a large group of people. More than that, it introduces a big area of inefficiency and bureaucracy, in the sense that the credits involved will require an army of bureaucrats to implement. It complicates the tax system much more than is necessary, and it increases the top marginal tax rate for a very large group of people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe very thing that Sir Roger Douglas told us was most important as far as tax rates are concerned was the top marginal tax rate, and here we have ACT making the top marginal rate higher for a large group of New Zealanders. ACT members are removing or reducing the very incentives that they tell us are so important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI will also make a comment or two to the M\u0101ori Party. I thank those members for not taking their call, and for giving the Labour Party an extra call again. I say to Mr Flavell that we remember. We remember seeing M\u0101ori Party MPs going around the country and saying that they wanted a tax-free area up to $25,000. That was their policy: nil tax to $25,000. You know, one would think that if that was their policy, then their minimum position would be that every tax change heads in that direction. But what do they do? They vote for a bill that puts tax up for low-income people. And who are those people? They are much, much more likely to be M\u0101ori, proportionately, than P\u0101keh\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party members are putting tax up especially for people who have families, people who have a couple of low incomes and have kids, and people who are struggling on incomes in the $20,000s and the low $30,000s. They are the group of people whom the M\u0101ori Party was kind enough to support in terms of Working for Families, and now they are the ones who are being punished by the M\u0101ori Party because it is following blindly behind National. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EWhat is Mr Flavell going to say to that family whose dad earns $33,000 and whose mum earns $22,000 in a bit more than a part-time job, who have a couple of kids, and who are in KiwiSaver? Does the member know how much their net income will go down? Between $60 and $70 a week. Those people will have $60 or $70 a week less under the National-Act-M\u0101ori Government, as it was described. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Flavell that I want to come on to the marae with him, as well. Not only does Mr Ririnui want to do that but I want to be there, as well. I want to hear him explain how it is mana-enhancing to take $60 or $70 a week off some of the poorest M\u0101ori families in New Zealand\u2014$60 or $70 a week from some of the poorer families, compared with what the law says they would get now, in 2011. [Interruption] What is now clear is that the junior Government whip also does not understand the difference between what is in the law now and what is being worked through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff31cb68332b426dba405d82f192bd4b\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: You detail it for me, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6cc7522702342cea3be340c23ad732d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: We will. We will work throughout today, we will work throughout tomorrow, and for the next 3 years we will work our way around the poorer communities of New Zealand. We will show them what will happen because of the rise in the thresholds between the package that has already been legislated for by the previous Labour Government and this Government\u2019s legislation. Although some of the marginal rates are coming down, the lift in the threshold hits the poorest people in New Zealand. It hits the poorest workers in New Zealand, and it hits not only those who are working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI give members the example of the older family\u2014a couple on superannuation. They have done the right thing, they have saved up, and they have a small income that is coming in as a result of their savings. What happens to them? Their tax goes up. Their tax goes up under the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI know that National appealed heavily to superannuitants, but what will happen under this legislation is that the tax on people who have an income of $20,000 as a result of the amounts they have saved, over and above their superannuation, will go up. They might have that income coming from another superannuation plan, but as a result of this legislation their tax will go up. Notwithstanding the small increase those people will get in their national superannuation, their total income will go down. And the National members sound like they are proud of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI will tell members something\u2014Paul Quinn did not go and tell people at the Grey Power meetings that if they had some savings, then their net income would go down. He did not tell them that. I am not sure whether he knew. He did know; he is putting up his hand to indicate that he did know. Well, in that case, it is very, very sad that he misled the Grey Power people at the meetings he went to in Lower Hutt and Wainui\u014Dmata. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI will get back to the M\u0101ori Party, in particular, and to something that those members and John Key had in common during the election campaign. That was around the relative attractiveness of New Zealand and Australia. One of the very good things that the previous Government negotiated was an arrangement for portability of superannuation back and forth. One of the reasons for that, I say to Mr Flavell, was so that wh\u0101nau could bring their superannuation from Australia back to New Zealand, and so that some of the higher-income earners who were living in Australia and wanted to come back to New Zealand would not lose their superannuation as a result of coming back. It was something to bring families together, to bring wh\u0101nau back, to bring leadership back into communities in New Zealand, and to allow some of the older people to get a piece of the pie by keeping the superannuation that they had earned in Australia. What has Mr Flavell has done? He is voting for the gutting of the KiwiSaver arrangements, which will result in that portability being lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EWere Government members polite enough to ring the Australian Government, to get on the phone to Mr Rudd\u2014John to Kevin\u2014and tell the Australian Government that they were walking away from the superannuation portability? Did they do that? No. They did not even think of it. So what do we have here? We have legislation that removes the incentives to do research and wrecks the portability of superannuation. We have legislation that increases the marginal tax rate for some poor and middle-income people and increases the taxes paid by a significant group of people who have kids and have joined KiwiSaver. It is just not fair, and we are going to fight it right through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d59f02f9f50a497b8bc0c93399896d82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d59f02f9f50a497b8bc0c93399896d82\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I congratulate you, Mr Deputy Speaker, on your election to your new role. It is great to see somebody from the Waikato in such an esteemed role, and I say well done. I am sure you will follow in the footsteps of other great people in that role, such as Margaret Wilson before you, who also had Waikato links. I say well done and congratulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EWhen we look at what we are passing today, we see that the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill is very important legislation. It is legislation that goes to the heart of many New Zealand individuals and families who are struggling, who know there is a world economy out there that is very tight, who know they need some help from their Government in their time of need, and who want to see a Government that listens and is aware of the issues that are involved in the way they have to live their lives at the moment. They want a country and a Government that will deliver something to help them through this tough time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe National Party has listened to the people. The National Party went out to the people during the election campaign and said we understand the dilemma they are in, we understand they want a better future, and we understand they need a Government that will understand and work in their best interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThis is what we are seeing here today. This bill is the first step in building a better future for New Zealanders, and building a stronger economy that will actually deliver that future for our people. Our people know it is going to be tough out there. They know there are going to be some major economic issues that we have to deal with as a country. They also know they want a Government that will make decisions; a Government that will go out there and not just look around the world and try to say we are leading on social and environmental issues but not actually do anything. They want a Government that will do things, and that is what they will get from the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe National Party will deliver constructive solutions, and we will deliver them now to the people of New Zealand. We have a 100-day plan, we have a plan of action, and we know what is needed for the New Zealand economy to turn it around. The New Zealand economy is in recession. I invite anyone who does not believe that to look at what is happening around the world. The US and the Australian economies are teetering on the edge of recession, and those countries are looking at ways of avoiding going into that situation. New Zealand has been in recession under the Labour Government that was in power before the election, and now it is time to turn that around. Now it is time for the Government to make some constructive changes that will deliver a stronger economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThis bill is the first step. It is the first legislation the National Party has put through in Government, and it will deliver some relief for hard-working New Zealanders. Hard-working New Zealanders want to see a reduction in the taxes they pay to the Government. They need to see a reduction in taxes because they are struggling out there. They are struggling to pay their bills and meet their mortgage payments at the high interest rates that have been inflicted on them for many years under the previous Labour Government. They are struggling to pay the high expenses that have been inflicted upon them by the previous Government through the high inflation it controlled in this economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EIt is time now for a change of approach. It is time now for relief for hard-working New Zealanders. It is time now for these tax cut packages to come forward, and for New Zealanders to see a Government that cares, acts, and delivers something constructive to hard-working Kiwis. That is what they are going to get under the National Party. They will get a Government that delivers, that looks forward, and that promotes solutions. That is what this bill is about today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ELet us look at the personal tax cuts. They are significant tax cuts. They are the first step, but they are significant. When we look at those percentage and rate decreases, we see it is in the best interests of New Zealanders to give them that money so they can deliver to their families the future they want. Those cuts will deliver the right signals and incentives for New Zealanders to go out there and get a good education, take risks, and progress their lives and the lives of their families. That is the whole point of a tax regime. It is to provide those signals and incentives, at the same time as providing the Government with the revenue to deliver its social services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThis is a robust tax regime that takes into account the need for New Zealand families and individuals to have some tax relief at this point in time, and the National Party will deliver that tax relief over the next week or so. The independent earner tax credit is an initiative for many New Zealanders who have missed out, who want to get into the home ownership market, who are struggling through getting an education and into the workforce, and who want to build up a future for themselves so they can have a family and deliver what we need in New Zealand\u2014strong and sustained growth for our economy. It is good to see the National Party coming out and delivering for those people and giving them the independent earner tax credit, an initiative that will deliver much-needed finances to individuals who are working hard, doing the right things, making the right decisions, and need to get that support from the Government as they make those investments in their future and the future of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ELet us look at other parts of this bill, which are very important for New Zealanders. The KiwiSaver changes enable a lot more New Zealanders to get into the KiwiSaver regime. At the moment it is a regime that is dominated by people who are putting their families into it and taking advantage of a system. We need to let more New Zealanders have the ability to get into KiwiSaver and into the savings regime. The Labour Party\u2019s attitude is that it knows what is best for New Zealanders. That is not the case. New Zealanders can make their own decisions. They need to have the opportunity to make those decisions, and by lowering that percentage this bill gives more New Zealanders the chance to get into a regime where they can save for their future and deliver what they need to deliver for themselves and their families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe research and development tax credit is another important part of this legislation. We have to look at what is important for the research and development industry, and that tax credit was not delivering what was needed. That was never going to be what was needed. Let us look at what was happening. The Labour Government members just sat there while AgResearch laid off staff. They were not interested in research and development. It was all about the mantra of what they thought sounded good, and the reality is we need to do constructive work in the research and development industry and deliver real solutions. The biggest solution we can deliver for research and development in New Zealand is to have a stronger economy. Without a stronger economy companies will not engage in research and development, and, if we are in a recession, like the Labour Party has delivered us, then it does not matter how many tax credits are given, people will not go into research and development. If they do, they will be using it only to project something that is different from what they are doing in their business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe National Party understands what is good for the New Zealand economy. We understand what would benefit research and development. It is to give a strong, vibrant economy. That is what this tax cut package is part of. It is part of delivering that strong economy. We need the economy to function and grow, and in order to deliver that we must take some important steps. This is the first step in that process, and a very good step it is. We are looking at an approach that is constructive, well meaning, and in the best interests of New Zealand. We will not take the approach the Labour Party is taking this morning of coming to the House and trying to use fear and scare tactics and saying that this is not in the best interests of hard-working New Zealanders. No, we will actually go out there and deliver constructive solutions for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EPeople in the street have come up to us and said that they are confident and very supportive of the National Government because they see a Government that is making decisions, a Government that is actually willing to go out there and build a better future for New Zealanders, a Government that is not trying to project fear, to put people down, and to say that it knows best, which is what the Labour Party does in this House time after time. It is time for a different direction in New Zealand. It is time for a direction that actually delivers solutions. It is time for a direction that looks at what economic fundamentals are required in the country to deliver the growth we need. That is what we will get under the National Government. We see the previous Minister over there laughing away. He does not care about growth; he never has. He never delivered it. He just waited for somebody, or for some other world economies, to deliver him economic growth. He was not taking the steps, but National, through this bill, has taken the first steps towards delivering that stronger growth economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00222dd4cc112d1b46a99e197855c6c0e4da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dd4cc112d1b46a99e197855c6c0e4da\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a report in the Waikato Times of 28 October, in which one Mr David Bennett stated: \u201CI don\u2019t think that our\u201D\u2014that is, the National Party\u2019s\u2014\u201C(R \u0026amp; D) policy is as good as it could be, but we need to invest in our infrastructure to boost the economy.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db73f7d20af742e9b7288576f90059f9\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought to table that document. Is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u002287ce1a11dc514d1ca4424c679b107e19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287ce1a11dc514d1ca4424c679b107e19\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The one thing clear from that speech from David Bennett is that he has not read the legislation before him, because it does none of the things he says it does. It does not deliver for all hard-working New Zealanders. In fact, it penalises some of the poorest families in this country, and it comes off the back of a campaign during which National members went around the electorates smiling at everyone, saying: \u201CIt\u2019s OK. We\u2019ve changed. We\u2019re different. We know that people don\u2019t want cuts. We know that people want support for their families. We know that people don\u2019t want the same old tired policies and failed arguments of the 1990s all over again.\u201D And what do we see? On this first day of business in this new Parliament, with this new National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government, what do we see? We see the putting up of taxes on the poorest New Zealand families, compared with the tax cuts they would have got\u2014and were already legislated for\u2014under the previous Labour-led Government\u2019s tax policy. I say to the National Government \u201CShame!\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EIf the Government thinks for a second that this Labour Opposition will roll over and let it destroy the economy and destroy the finances of some of our poorest families, then it has another think coming. Its members think that we do not know we have lost the election. We know it when we stand here and see legislation that once again attacks some of our most vulnerable families. The difference is that\u2014unlike that party\u2014it will not take us 6 years in Opposition to get stuck in. We are getting stuck in from day one. We will be here today, tomorrow, and\u2014as Mr Mallard said\u2014for the next 3 years holding this Government to account on every promise to the electorate that it breaks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282a5abc99bb54db5921627504f429389\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: This is actually delivering the promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273abbe6d7ecd4ab1bb028859154554cb\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mapp need not worry; I will get to him soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003ELet us remember the context in which this bill comes to the House. The outgoing Labour Government left the economy in a very good position for the incoming Government. We had halved debt from 35 percent to 17 percent of GDP. We left this National Government with a very good position in which to move. The previous National Party leader, Don Brash, agrees. He said New Zealand is in a very good position to weather this storm. We have seen international credit agencies agree. New Zealand is in a very good position to weather this storm, because of the fiscal prudence shown by the previous Minister of Finance, the Hon Dr Michael Cullen. And what is the first thing we see on day one of this Government? We see legislation\u2014if those members opposite will ever show it to us\u2014that puts us on a track back to the 35 percent debt we inherited when we became Government in 1999. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI refer to the Speech from the Throne in relation to this bill. There were lots of nice words in that speech. We heard that the Government is going to look after people, we heard about turbocharging, about protecting, about enforcing, about innovation, about aspiration, and about individual responsibility, but nothing in this bill will assist vulnerable New Zealand families through the recession, nothing in this bill will help our most innovative businesses bring us through the recession, and nothing in this bill will help bring liquidity into our capital markets through our savings in this country. In fact, not only does this bill not do those things; it destroys them. It undermines the gains we have made as a country over the last 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little about the research and development tax credit. I am very glad that the Minister of Research, Science and Technology, the Hon Dr Wayne Mapp, is in the House now, because he has made a big deal about how great he will be for research and development. I wonder whether Mr Mapp is aware that with this bill New Zealand will go straight to the bottom of the OECD when it comes to research and development. In one go this legislation puts New Zealand straight to the bottom of the OECD when it comes to research and development, and this is at a time when one would think it would be sensible, prudent, and common sense to provide incentives for our most innovative companies\u2014those that are most likely to bring New Zealand through the recession faster, those that are most likely to be exporters, and those that are most likely to employ people on higher salaries and therefore provide higher take-home incomes for families. One would think that a Government would want to provide incentives for those companies to invest in more research and development. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EDr Mapp says it is a tax rort. The Australian Government thought that. A year later it had to bring the research and development tax credit back because it realised that getting rid of it did much more damage than these kinds of tax rorts that people talk about and never prove. Of course, Australia is meant to be the nirvana that we are following, so why, with one stroke of a pen in this legislation, are we putting ourselves at a competitive disadvantage to Australia? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI want a guarantee from Dr Wayne Mapp. He promised that a third of the money that would have gone towards this research and development tax credit would go to our Crown research institutes. He promised. Will that continue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a782e4022a5b4512975d3c7cb2317eec\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s broader than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dabbc42270a47b9a79afcd8ee91043e\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it is broader than that. No, Dr Mapp promised in the election campaign, as did Dr Hutchison, that a third of the money saved by scrapping the research and development tax credit would go straight to funding science directly. I think that is what he called it; he said it would be a third. Will they get that money? Will the Crown research institutes get that money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b52f474c12b43f0afe10c44a5814526\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: You haven\u2019t read the policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ed4ff85ae554c849d9b474058420c81\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I say to Dr Mapp that we will be getting out the policy; he need not worry. The policy was very clearly that the Crown research institutes would be directly funded with a third of this money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea0869e17aa740ecbb9e7c556c9afc3a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t say that at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff01115e30f34139ad333a04f5f62b38\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, what a great day for science! Not only are we scrapping the research and development tax credit, but we have just heard here on the floor of the House that the $330 million promised to the Crown research institutes by Dr Paul Hutchison and by the new Minister, Wayne Mapp, will not be given to them\u2014they will not get it. What is it going towards? It is going towards paying for tax cuts that disadvantage some of our most vulnerable families and do nothing for our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EResearch and development tax credits are a common tool around the world for lifting rates of private sector research and development investment. Just about every country has them. All the countries the National Party compares us with have them, yet we are getting rid of them at the one time in history when we need them more than anything else. Well, I am sure the scientists and the manufacturers around New Zealand are saying: \u201CThank you for a very merry Christmas, the National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government. Thank you for a very merry Christmas, Dr Wayne Mapp, our new Minister.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWe know that the research and development tax credit was supported by all of National\u2019s mates. Business New Zealand\u2019s Phil O\u2019Reilly pointed out that many companies had made long-term investment plans based on that research and development tax credit, and they will be out of pocket now that the National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government is getting rid of it. They are going to be out of pocket. We know that when National announced its tax policy, different groups, such as manufacturers\u2019 organisations, flew all over the country to meet with Bill English to try to convince him to back down on the research and development tax credit abolition, because they knew how important that single policy was for our economy, especially going into a recession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003ESo I say to Mr David Bennett, who said before that the National Party does not want to lead on anything in the world\u2014he does not think it is important to be a world leader on anything\u2014that his mission is accomplished. We are now, with one stroke of the pen on this legislation, last in the OECD on research and development. The member might not think that that is particularly important. He thought it was important during the election campaign, when he was in his own home area, because, of course, there are lots of manufacturers in the Waikato. There are Crown research institutes and lots of scientists. It is a fabulous area for science innovation\u2014it is a hub. He got up during the election campaign and said that he did not agree with abolishing the research and development tax credit. He has obviously realised that that has got him seated somewhere further back in the Chamber than he was during the last term, so he has come down here with a mea culpa, road to Damascus speech. He has suddenly realised the error of his ways, and that getting rid of the tax credits is a really fabulous idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWe have just heard from Wayne Mapp that the money he was promising the Crown research institutes was, kind of, so that they would not feel so bad about his getting rid of the research and development tax credit\u2014which they may have got money from through contracts they have in the private sector\u2014because he will give them $330 million to tide them over. Of course, they were very happy with that. Well, that has gone. That has gone out the window as well, and what for? To pay for cuts to KiwiSaver that will limit the level of liquidity we have in our venture capital markets, which is important for our research and development. National will cut KiwiSaver. It will cut taxes for the people who need it the least. It will raise taxes on some of our most vulnerable families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI genuinely want the M\u0101ori Party to think very seriously about its support for that legislation, which raises taxes on some of our most vulnerable families. Thirty-five percent of families in the East Coast electorate earn under $40,000 and they will get nothing\u2014they will get absolutely nothing. In fact, for some of them their taxes will go up. Well, I say merry, merry Christmas from a National Government, which from day one is showing its true colours\u2014a National Government that campaigned on being softer, campaigned on being friendlier, and campaigned on being smiley\u2014their smiley selves. Well, once again we are seeing the cold face of reality behind the friendly mask of John Key and this National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022 data-id=\u002250261ee7c332484287e1db04abd3ea84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250261ee7c332484287e1db04abd3ea84\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Congratulations, Mr Deputy Speaker, on your elevation. One of the disappointing things when listening to Opposition members is that apparently they cannot read. If they had read our policies they would know that the statements they are making are simply not correct. I could actually say something else but I will not, because it would be unparliamentary. But I remind members that if they are going to make assertions about another party\u2019s policy, they at least should take the trouble to read it before doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EExtraordinary things we have been finding in Government are all the problems the previous Government left for us. For instance, one of the very first briefings I received related to the issues around AgResearch\u2014all its redundancies. Did the previous Government tell the public that\u2014did it tell the scientists that? No, it did not. It was actually a great relief\u2014and I know that my colleague Mr Bennett knows this particularly well because he comes from the area\u2014that that, in fact, has been ameliorated quite substantially. I know that that has been a substantial relief to the people in AgResearch. One would not hear that from Labour members, would one? One would not hear that Labour\u2019s legacy was going to be redundancies rolling out for ever. That was Labour\u2019s policy when it was in Government. That is what it was going to do about protecting New Zealand\u2019s science, research, and technology bases. So it was a good result to see that the effects of that were being ameliorated substantially. I know that that was appreciated within AgResearch itself and within that community. So let us not hear from the other side about all the work it did for science, research, and technology. When one measures the facts against Labour\u2019s rhetoric\u2014actually, that was a feature of the previous Government: rhetoric on the one hand was always noble, grand, and highfalutin; reality on the other hand, well, that was a bit different, was it not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bf6b59f7a66416781467a29feca9961\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: How about the whales, Wayne? How are the whales getting on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224370c326dae34f5881636aeebca7ff3f\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Let me just remind the senior whip on the other side to look at the Defence Force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022188f5264d2544401b7136a28610171e0\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s the frigate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022337f3b740e3a4b2c87a51bc9589c702a\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: That member should ask the former Minister of Defence about all the problems in defence that he has left with the current Minister of Defence. I tell that person that he had better be quiet on that particular issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EI just want to bring the Opposition to a reality check. We explicitly campaigned on this bill. The public knew exactly the nature of the tax programme that National is offering not just in terms of personal income taxes but also in terms of KiwiSaver itself. The public made a judgment on Labour\u2019s programme and made a judgment on National\u2019s programme. That is why we are on this side of the House today and that is why we are moving this bill. We told the public that this was part of our 100-day programme, and that is why we are implementing it in this way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbe6f1cad38647e2a095d1d83bc69c06\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t want it to go to select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6009d135514464a9aa03c09f6a89578\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: The former Minister knows full well that tax rate issues never go to select committees. They are always dealt with by this House. I remind that member that that is what happened in December 1999. There is a good reason for that, in fact. It is because the public have actually made a judgment. They voted for specific tax rates. We have a specific promise and there is no point putting that specific promise to a select committee, because the issue has already been judged, and that is why we are implementing it in the way we are doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EI just want to go through some aspects of the detail. Labour always goes on about its tax package being better than ours. Well, the first point of which I need to remind Labour is that the public has made that judgment already, and Labour was not on the winning side of that. But the second point I make to the Opposition is this: the major difference is that we put our priority into middle New Zealand families and their aspirations. So our focus was shifting the 21 percent rate up from $40,000 through, ultimately, to $50,000. That is where the vast majority of hard-working, aspirational New Zealand families actually fit. We are not talking, obviously, about people who have just entered the workforce, we are talking about people who have built experience and are going into careers and looking at opportunities for the future, and looking at opportunities in other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EThis is the key point in the New Zealand tax system. One only has to look at the whole group of people that Labour often talks about\u2014teachers, nurses, and so forth. This tax rate affects them more than any other tax rate. So we have aimed this package right at aspirational New Zealanders who are building skills and building careers. We are saying to them that our tax package will make it easier for them and their families. Our tax package will make it easier for them to decide that \u201CYes, perhaps I should stay in New Zealand.\u201D I also remind the Opposition of this: at this point in time, with the economy in the situation that it is, right now stimulus is exactly what is needed on 1 April 2009. What would the public have got from the other side? Zero! Actually, zero was Labour\u2019s tax package for 1 April 2009. That is one of the reasons Labour lost the election. The public understood that in this difficult financial situation, which not just New Zealand but much of the rest of the world is involved in as well, stimulus is what is required. Every country, in fact, is undergoing that process, and this bill is part of the National Government package to deliver stimulus to the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003ELabour members might talk about savings and all of that. That is not the core issue right now in the New Zealand economy. The core issue is getting money into the economy by 1 April next year to keep demand up, keep aspirations up, keep jobs going, and keep hope going. That is the difference between us and them. Their package for 1 April next year was zero. Our package will stimulate the New Zealand economy at a time when it will count. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EDovetailed to that is that it is pitched at those New Zealanders who have been crying out for some relief in the tax system. In 9 years under Labour they got zero. National is delivering. That really sums it up. National in Government is delivering, we are honouring our promises, and we will deliver this in the next day or so when the bill comes into effect. That fundamentally pitches the difference between this side, a Government of action, and that side, an Opposition of failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00225464c1dd0a2849c5987acbcfb53fee55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225464c1dd0a2849c5987acbcfb53fee55\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E As I reflect on the debate of the last 24 hours, a question comes to mind and it is simply this: in that speech, Mr Tremain\u2019s speech, Mr Bennett\u2019s speech, and all the speeches we have heard from the Government in defence of this bill, which increases taxes for the bottom end, why have we not heard any rebuttal of the allegations the Opposition has put on front of them? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWhen Phil Goff used the example of a family on $50,000, with one child, and investing in KiwiSaver, losing $70 a week\u2014that is seven-zero, for Mr Bennett\u2019s benefit\u2014as a result of this package, did we hear one denial from Bill English, or Mr Tremain, or Mr Bennett, or that tax expert Mr Foss? Did they deny it? I remember that last night Mr English grinned as if he had been caught like a kid with his hand in the cookie jar. Did any of them get up, deny it, and say: \u201CNo, that is not true. The facts are other than what is being put forward by the Opposition.\u201D? No, they did not deny it, because they cannot deny it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ELast night we saw the M\u0101ori Party members look as if they could have leapt into the desks in front of their seats as they stuck their hands up and gave their party vote in support of this bill. Every one of their constituents earning under $40,000 will be getting either zip from this or an increase in tax. A couple on $55,000 a year with three kids will have to pay $14 extra a week because, in effect, they get a tax increase. If Hone Harawira could have shrunk himself and dived into his desk or under it to get away from this debate, he would have. Mr Flavell is piling the computer and the boxes higher and higher on his desk because he knows he has to answer his constituents, probably in a couple of months when they rock into his office and say: \u201CMr Flavell, we voted for you. Why are we paying more? You never told us about this.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EHere comes the man himself, Bill English. He is the architect of this bill. Not once in any of his contributions in the last 24 hours did he say: \u201CNo, the Opposition is wrong. As the National Party promised in the campaign, everybody will do better out of our tax policy.\u201D That is what National said. They talk about aspiration. I ask Mr Bennett, that learned gentleman on the other side of the House, how it is aspirational if a family that is on $50,000, is in KiwiSaver, and has one child, loses $70 a week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe only National Party response last night was from that genius Nick Smith, who, when he decided to stop holding his breath, said that that is the politics of envy. That is what he said. I have the Hansard, and I am going to blow it up. I, along with Maryan Street and the troops on this side, will come to Nelson and find all the families on $50,000 a year who are in KiwiSaver, who have one child, and who lose $70 a week. We will line them up in front of that genius\u2019 electorate office and let him say, on behalf of National: \u201COh, you $50,000 parents with one child losing $70 a week\u2014that is the politics of envy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EAs I said last night to Mr Bennett and Mr Tremain, that is the politics of betrayal, not envy. Where is the aspiration when dad is on $35,000 and mum is on $22,000, they have three kids, and they have to pay $14 a week extra in tax? Where is the aspiration in that? Or does aspiration and the so-called choosing a brighter future apply only if one is at the top end? We know that Mr Bennett and Mr Foss, wherever he is, and Mr Mapp\u2014and I now know the anatomical impact of peroxide on the cranium\u2014will get a big tax rebate of around $100 a week. Apparently, aspiration applies only to those who are pretty far north of $40,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI looked at the Dominion Post this morning. It said that those on $42,000 a year will get $4.62. Those members criticised us for the so-called block of cheese tax cuts. Well, that is one slice of Chesdale without the plastic wrapping. Apparently, aspiration and choosing a brighter future applies only to their mates at the top end. I do not think it is the politics of envy to stand up, as we are in this House, do our duty, and point out that this bill was not signalled in its entirety before the election campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EDr Mapp got up and said: \u201CYou don\u2019t need to send this bill to a select committee. You don\u2019t send tax bills to a select committee.\u201D I say to Dr Mapp: \u201CWake up!\u201D I used to chair the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and we did tax bills\u2014we did a lot of them. We can send this bill to a select committee, and why? Because it comes into effect in April. That is plenty of time to send it to a select committee for a week or a couple of weeks. But, oh no, Dr Mapp does not want to do that, because, then, the tax experts and the venerable social services agencies such as the Salvation Army and others would come in and point out the things that we are pointing out today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c4d2b81851d43d1a27b029951ad39b3\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: And the manufacturers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe38a7b550274b298231b58fec6461f3\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: And the manufacturers, of course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EMy colleague Moana Mackey talked about the research and development tax credit. She made reference to a meeting that happened with Mr English. I know for a fact that manufacturers flew from all around the country to have a meeting with that member in Auckland, and they worked him over. They got the blowtorch out and did the rotisserie on him. Do members know what he said to them? He said: \u201CAh look, do not worry, we will fix it some other way.\u201D They did not believe him, and they do not believe him now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe justification for doing away with the research and development tax credit was this, which appeared in the New Zealand Herald: \u201CNational leader John Key, in announcing the move to drop the scheme yesterday as part of the party\u2019s tax policy, said\u2026\u2018It\u2019s clear that the tax credit has created a lot of business for tax accountants and tax advisers, but evidence of real increases in R and D is harder to find.\u2019 \u201D Hang on; there is a problem with that. That sound business person and good guy, the chief executive officer of the Canterbury Manufacturers Association in my area, John Walley, said that Mr Key\u2019s comment was \u201Cdaft\u201D. Another member of the House was called daft\u2014the electorate chairman of the National Party for Gisborne called Anne Tolley daft, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9eed6cc8be1480ca1c6f96d0cfa4480\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: No, Nick Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5985c63832d4481a9c7f54497595de5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Nick Smith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ESo Mr Walley, of the Canterbury Manufacturers Association, said that Mr Key was daft because the research and development tax credit applied for the first time in the 2008 income tax year. Unless Mr Key is a clairvoyant\u2014and he portrays that he has the powers of a miracle worker\u2014or unless Mr English is a clairvoyant and can see into the future and into the mists of time, they cannot predict what will happen. Of course, the Aussies do not agree with Mr Key. He said it all has to be a rort, but it is a rort that has not happened. So National will get rid of it, although it actually has no evidence. That is the truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThen we had the great betrayal of Dr Mapp. As my colleague pointed out, $330 million was to be the compensatory factor to go to the Crown research institutes. That is up in the air. That is disappearing really quickly. One would think that members of a new Government would be so proud of their tax policy, the benchmark document that they say they campaigned on, that they would get up and say: \u201CNo, the Opposition is wrong. Dr Cullen is wrong, Mr Cosgrove is wrong, Ms Mackey is wrong. You and all the examples you have used are all wrong.\u201D But that has not happened once. Even the great guru, Mr English, has not once got up and admitted it. Even the Dominion Post worked it out on the front page today. A large number of people in our community will get nothing from this or, worse still, they will be grossly disadvantaged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI again say to the M\u0101ori Party members that there is still time for them to get themselves out of the pickle they have got themselves into. There is still time to come down to the House and oppose this bill, as there are a lot of votes to go and a lot of water to go under the bridge. I would love the M\u0101ori Party to do that. We know that National Party does not care what its constituents think when they rock up and ask why they are paying more when National said during the campaign that people would gain out of this measure. But there is still time before the M\u0101ori Party constituents rock up and ask: \u201CWhy are you supporting the National Party in this?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EOn every marae, and at every k\u014Dhanga reo when the parents come to pick up their kids, the explanations will have to be given. I do not think the M\u0101ori Party members will have their research people write them a word for word speech, as they do, and then come down to the House and read out an explanation and a justification for supporting the National Party in this. Even the research unit will not be able to come up with that one. The M\u0101ori Party members did not campaign on it. They were against it. They should be against it, because they represent some of the poorest people in the community, who will be hit hard by this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI invite one of the geniuses over there to get up and negate what the Dominion Post has said, what Dr Cullen has said, and the examples that I, Phil Goff, and others have given. There are large groups in our community that are disadvantaged. [Interruption] Mr Bennett can shake his head, but why in that great oratory he gave us did he not say \u201CThat is wrong, and here is why.\u201D, and give us the proof? It is because the member does not have the proof. Well, there could be another explanation\u2014it was not in big print. But the member does not have the proof, nor does he have the evidence. It is now apparent to us that it is aspirational if one is at the top end. If one is the chief executive officer of Telecom, my word, that person is brimming with aspiration. It is just pouring out of every pore. But if someone is at the bottom end, that person is in trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002268a73eb0c2564c219fbb6cc58f3d18ae\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; M\u0101ori Party 5; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002257b887fa26f74c4893c5a1bb0a007de9\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002297ff7ecdb5314cfc9f834d1f6de3f95c\u0022\u003EPart 1  Personal tax cuts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u00224b0e4c34ba7041248b62df2783ac0ceb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b0e4c34ba7041248b62df2783ac0ceb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to have an opportunity to discuss some of the detail of this bill, after what has been a very rushed process to date. I hope that some of the political rhetoric may subside for a while, and that we and New Zealanders can get our heads around some of the measures that are embedded in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ELet us start, if we can, by going through exactly what will change for average New Zealanders with regard to the KiwiSaver component of this bill. Firstly, they will not get the $40-odd down payment for their registration fee. Secondly, although National has tried to fill in part of the gap, if someone is a low-income earner\u2014by which we mean anyone earning less than around the average income of about $44,000 a year\u2014and that person has kids, he or she will be worse off, despite the fact that National has, late in the piece, restored some of the Government\u2019s contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244bce8b084f14c3db5445b7a55e6e1be\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We are considering Part 1, which deals with personal tax rates. The speaker, who is a learned member of the House, is talking about KiwiSaver. I ask you to bring him closer to the part, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faa9343de21643bba52cf2c4c38703cf\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is a fair call. Members can refer to something else, but they need to draw what is said back to the part, for comparative purposes or whatever other purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f44581d72c2d4d6eb218495c02e83b7d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, the tax rates are funded largely by the changes to KiwiSaver, and I had thought it was appropriate to cover both the funding and the expenditure side of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EHowever, let us go directly to the tax component. The principal difference here is twofold. The first difference concerns where the rates and thresholds are set, and the second is in the top rate. Let us turn first to the thresholds. Under Labour\u2019s package some $8 billion has already been invested in the changes that came through on 1 October. They were designed to lift the thresholds, thereby providing all New Zealanders with approximately equal improvements in the tax actually paid. It was a very, very fair set of tax changes, and it would have carried on in that way. By 1 April 2011 people earning up to $20,000 a year would have been paying 12.5 percent, those earning $20,000 to $42,500 a year would have been paying 21 percent, those earning $42,000 to $80,000 a year would have been paying 33 percent, and those earning above $80,000 a year would have been paying 39 percent, in tax. What has happened, of course, under this bill from National is that people who are earning between $14,000 and $20,000 a year will now pay 21 percent, not 12.5 percent. That is a very, very significant difference. It means that many below average income earners, second earners, and families will face a higher tax threshold, a higher tax rate, at that level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWhy has that been done? This is a very artificially constructed tax cut. It appears to be built around the promise that National made during the election campaign to try to engineer a $50-a-week cut for the average income earner. So in fact the tax remission spikes around that part of the band, and then on either side of that it drops down. The real change occurs for those in the top bracket\u2014over $70,000 a year. Why this Government thinks that people who earn over $70,000 a year deserve to be the biggest beneficiaries from this tax cut escapes me. Someone who is earning three-quarters of a million dollars gets $200 a week, and someone who is on the average wage gets $2 a week. Why is that? There is no economic justification for that. People who are very wealthy, of course, do not spend the tax cut that they get. They can afford to save it or invest it, and therefore it is taken out of circulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022044cfa646cdf4efb8058046daa97082e\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: So you admit that some people actually save it. Some actually save their tax cuts. That\u2019s good to hear from you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229be5753e5e964350b6cf44f5af30223b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Tremain that that can be useful, but one has to be very careful about why one is doing it. The Government has said that the principal reason for this tax cut is to restore demand in an economy that is facing recession. It simply will not do that if the money is saved away. We have to start with $3.5 billion more in savings, because that has just been sucked out of KiwiSaver. Then we have to offset the $1.5 billion of innovation that we are not going to get\u2014or more; probably $3 billion or $4 billion\u2014because the research and development tax credit has been axed. I think we need to be very clear about the arguments for this tax change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ETo summarise, we know we have a threshold problem for people who are on lower and middle incomes. We know we have a skew of benefits to people who are at the upper end of the income range, and we know that we have some perverse effects in terms of whether this tax change will help to offset the recession, as a result. There is a lower multiplier on tax cuts than on Government spending if it is well directed, and a very low multiplier on high-income individuals who are squirrelling the money away because, frankly, they do not need the tax cuts. Those are some of the economic arguments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe next questions that we come to, around the tax rates, are what the actual fiscal impacts be will be and what the outlying debt track will be. Most New Zealanders by now understand that under the previous Labour-led Government, under Dr Cullen\u2019s leadership, the gross debt to GDP ratio, the amount of Government debt that we owe other countries, was cut in half, from 35 percent to 17 percent. With the recession it is up to about 18 percent, but it is still very low by world standards. Why does that matter? It matters hugely because it means the incoming Government has the wiggle room to spend and invest in infrastructure or take other measures to offset the recession. The Government has the fiscal headroom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe question is what has happened to that headroom, as a result of this package. Treasury\u2019s briefing to incoming Ministers made clear that in Treasury\u2019s view it was unnecessary to pursue further tax cuts on top of the close to $9 billion of stimulus that came in on 1 October. The reason for that was that it considered that stimulus to be sufficient, and that there were real risks about driving us deeper into debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EHow deep into debt are we getting as a result of this tax cut? The answer is that we do not know. We do not know because the new Government is not telling us. It has taken the unprecedented step of ramming a major piece of tax legislation through the House under urgency, with no select committee process, with no ability to interrogate it on the detail, and with no reliable statement of the macroeconomic implications of what it has done. This bill is a balancing act. Of course, we would all like to give tax cuts\u2014and we want to give fair tax cuts\u2014but we have to be constrained by the ability of the Government\u2019s books to support them. There is no information provided to the public, let alone to the Opposition, about the state of those books as a result of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ELet us now turn to some of the anomalies that arise. Some of those are deliberate; others may be unwitting. As Dr Cullen has said, there is an anomaly around pension portability. Australia has a 9 percent robust employer-funded superannuation savings scheme. We had a roughly equivalent scheme under Labour\u2019s KiwiSaver scheme, and the previous Government had sought and received the approval of the Australian Government to allow people to move backwards and forwards between the two countries\u2014something that was especially important, one would have thought, from a National Party point of view, because National members spent most of the election campaign grousing about people who cross the Ditch. So what is the implication? The implication, now that our tax package has resulted in a change to the KiwiSaver benefits, is that that portability could be eroded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ERegarding superannuation savings, the employer contribution for those who were seeking part-time work or who were close to superannuation age was at 4 percent on a net basis after tax credits. Now, that comes down to, I believe, about 3.2 or 3.4 percent net under this bill, undermining further the ability of New Zealanders to save for their superannuation, especially if they are doing so from a secondary income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESo a number of technical anomalies, alongside the headline rate and threshold changes, are built into this bill, and they deserve very significant consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EOn the question of process, we have already discussed the lack of a select committee hearing. We have not really gone into the fact that the commentary on the bill admits up front\u2014and I have never seen this before\u2014that due to the haste with which the bill has been prepared, the Government has not been able to do a regulatory impact statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022523b8eca918f42bb97f22a17f6887f71\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Amazing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5d6747726484584ba14b47bf1f82d0a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: That is amazing, given that the new Government campaigned on regulatory integrity and has a confidence and supply agreement with the ACT Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5b2d38ba6db4a4bb9a3ad21f4735fa3\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve got a new Minister for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e855922b9be047dd8b43a12b3e0fbda2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Government even has a Minister, and on its first bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b57eff76505242a39ef841f24fb1b988\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Once again, we are straying right off the subject. That is a matter for a speech on the title of the bill, and this debate is about Part 1. We are dealing with personal tax cuts and the thresholds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233af0984a352486a9d9c8088e77bcbd6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly respected the member\u2019s earlier point of order, but I think, respectfully, Mr Chairman, that on this one he is mistaken. The regulatory impact statement applies to the whole bill, including the rate changes, which are the subject of this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d84ee63f4964bcfa43d3f0f683bfc95\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am not going to uphold the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2bbba78bf7e41b783d1e5b20400d104\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. So we know that the proper processes for regulatory scrutiny have not been gone through on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe next problem is that the economic effects of this bill, as the commentary on the bill states, have not been fully analysed. We do not know those effects, not only because the Government has failed to publish the debt track but also because, according to the commentary on the bill, the analysis has not been done even by the Government\u2019s officials. We do not know what the flow-on effects of the funding mechanisms of this tax change will be. We do not know the net impact on innovation. We do not know the net impact on savings. We do not even know the net impact of the spending multipliers from the tax change. I say to those who have not been in Government for a while that one normally does the work before one puts a bill on the Table. Otherwise there might be an unintended consequence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EOne of the unintended consequences of this bill, from a Government point of view, is that a whole lot of New Zealanders are waking up and realising that this is not what they voted for. What they voted for, they thought, was a kinder, gentler kind of National Party that would leave in place the good things that Labour had done, and maybe offer a fresh face, such as it was. But that is not what they got on day one. Besides this bill, they have a very harsh piece of industrial relations law, which we will come to shortly, and they can see that some people have joined the flat earth society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022 data-id=\u00224f450a343828462398a47f3f16d59c87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f450a343828462398a47f3f16d59c87\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I will take the liberties that the previous speaker took around a wide range of topics, although he did eventually come back to Part 1. In speaking to Part 1, which is clauses 3 to 17 inclusive, I draw the Committee\u2019s attention to the title of Part 1, which is \u201CPersonal tax cuts\u201D. Does that not sound great? Personal tax cuts\u2014right here in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d381bd388eaa41a9bd1847c29941bd33\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Oh God! Don\u2019t slobber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fd3836d6f9c47f1810b0590921ebaad\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: I will say it again for the member over there\u2014personal tax cuts. I imagine that his first taxation bill said \u201Cpersonal tax hikes\u201D. Is that what the member\u2019s first tax bill said? Actually, all the way through the last 9 years the member\u2019s bills have probably said various things about threshold and fiscal drag, etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of points in this part. OK, the micro staff, which members on the other side of the Chamber keep talking about\u2014$2 here and $3 there\u2014is relevant, but what they keep missing and do not talk about, which says much about the head space they are still in, is the macro, the vision, the investment that this makes in New Zealand. The threshold changes in Part 1 actually are all about the biggest investment in the infrastructure of New Zealand\u2014the people. It is saying to them: \u201CWe value your hard work. We value your staying, hopefully, in New Zealand, and we value your investment in your education, with your student loan, and these tax threshold changes will enable you to pay your student loan off earlier and will offer you a higher, more viable after-tax income.\u201D I am yet to hear anything of that nature from members opposite rather the myopic vision they have of trying to justify things to each other, in spite of their somewhat diminished majorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EPart 1 contains a pro-rata provision and explanations of it. As all members will acknowledge, there are many complicated issues around all things related to taxation, and this policy that the Government has introduced here was flagged very, very early on. So there is much certainty out there, and, in fact, members will see as they go through some of the detail in the bill, how, with the top marginal rate going down to 37 percent, the banks can start to use resident withholding tax at 38c from 1 April next year, because over the year the pro-rata will catch up. Most things will come out in the wash. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EPrevious speakers have mentioned that these changes will mean that 80 percent of New Zealand taxpayers will be at or under the 20 percent rate. That is not too bad, but why stop there? I was very interested in the speech made by the previous speaker, who this morning was basically arguing for higher taxes. He started to refrain a bit and tried to justify that a bit further, but his multiplier arguments were all over the show this morning. I guess he has gone out and googled the stuff in between speeches and realised what he was saying. What he was saying was that if this was his bill, the rates would all be going up, and the bill would be called the \u201CPersonal Tax Hikes Bill\u201D\u2014or at least this part of it would be. I look forward to debating and discussing further points in this bill. There will be some good and robust questions, I am sure, and the Minister in the chair is more than prepared to push further National\u2019s vision and our ambition for personal tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022723577e3f9be4e22a94cadcac75c7d06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022723577e3f9be4e22a94cadcac75c7d06\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The various parts of this bill are either unfair, incompetent, dishonest, or stupid. Part 1 is the unfair and incompetent and dishonest part. Part 1 is entitled \u201CPersonal tax cuts\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8d5c86fa94142649bc42ae2306e3cc6\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Yes!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022802f43c5a0714093b2f5eb7b5c7b19ae\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member may be able to afford a brand-new four-wheel drive to park out at Napier airport even further into the future, because he actually is not in the electorate; he needs the four-wheel drive at the airport to give the impression he is somewhere around. But in fact for many New Zealanders Part 1 is a personal tax rate increase. For many people it is a personal tax rate increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EIn the debate on Part 3 I will move an amendment\u2014and I foreshadow this now because it relates to this part\u2014that will provide an opportunity for the M\u0101ori Party in particular and the National Government. In the case of the M\u0101ori Party the amendment will give it the chance to put its mana where its mouth is, and, in the case of National, to put its money where its mouth is\u2014that is, to move for a new tax credit that will apply where anybody under this legislation will be paying more tax than he or she would have done under the personal tax cuts legislation of 2008. Those taxpayers will be able to apply for a compensatory tax credit to make up the difference between what they would have received under the existing legislation and what they will get under this new legislation. It is very simple\u2014they will be able to apply at the end of the tax year for that compensatory tax credit. That will show whether National believes that nobody is worse off under this bill. If nobody is worse off under this bill, that amendment will cost it nothing. If the Minister in the chair, the Hon Bill English, then issues a financial veto saying that it will have more than a significant impact on the fiscal balance, we will know that it will cost money. In other words, people will be worse off under this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWho is worse off under these personal tax cuts? The answer is anybody earning $14,000 to $24,000 a year of taxable income. Why? Because the $14,000 threshold does not go up to $20,000 as it does under the existing legislation. The difference of $6,000 will be at a different marginal tax rate by 2011 of 7.5c in the dollar. That is $450 a year. That is nearly $9 a week. For a person on $20,000 a year, $9 a week is quite a lot of money. It is peanuts for the members of this Committee. It means nothing to Jackie Blue, who is looking bored over there. It means a lot to a person on $20,000 a year. Who is such a person? It is a second-income earner in the family. Maybe it is the wife going out on a part-time job. It is a cleaner\u2014a beneficiary who is putting in some effort and earning some money himself or herself. And now these people will be paying a higher tax rate on that than they otherwise would have done. It is a superannuitant with a bit of investment income, or a superannuitant who has a small part-time job, maybe delivering pamphlets. Would it not be ironic if that superannuitant had been delivering National Party pamphlets at the last election, and ended up paying a higher tax on those deliveries than he or she otherwise would? So I invite members to consider this very simple amendment; let us just see what they will do with it. The amendment protects the low-income earners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe second group who will lose under this bill are all families with kids who earn under $44,000 a year. There are quite a lot of those people\u2014that is nearly the average wage. So by 2011 a single-income family on nearly the average wage will be worse off under this bill than they will be under the current Act. But even people earning a good deal more than that are worse off, because they lose their entitlement to the new independent tax credit if they are receiving Working for Families, and that is a cunning means of trying to stop them applying for Working for Families if they get only a little bit at the end of the day. They will all be worse off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ESurprisingly, Mr English has developed an antipathy towards modest-income families on small incomes. Why that is I do not know. Maybe he supports only large families on large incomes; he does not seem to support small families on small incomes. They will be penalised as a result of National\u2019s taxation changes. So I say to Mr English that a family on 40,000 bucks a year, struggling to pay the rent and the mortgage\u2014we have heard about them for the last 3 years from the National Party\u2014will face a higher rate of tax and a lower net income as a consequence of this bill. How does that fit in with a Catholic social justice perspective? I remember asking Mr Bolger the same question in late 1990, when the National Government legislated to provide that a widow had to go to the Department of Social Welfare to apply for a widow\u2019s benefit within a week or she would lose money. How did that fit in with those kinds of precepts? It does not fit in with those kinds of precepts, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EYou see, we used to attack the National Party for the trickle-down theory\u2014the notion that as long as the people at the top got more, eventually it would trickle down to those at the bottom. What was proposed for those at the bottom was not even a 6-litre shower but a half-a-litre shower, as the margin eventually trickled down to those people. Well, this is \u201Ctrickle up\u201D; it is a new theory from National whereby the taxes on low incomes are increased, and that trickles up to those at the top. And why? In one of his previous speeches Mr English gave away that it is more expensive to give tax cuts to people on low incomes, because, as he said, people on high incomes get that tax cut, as well\u2014as if somehow that was wrong. That was a very interesting little slip there, as if to increase the bottom threshold or lower the bottom rate was somehow wrong, because everybody got it, because the rich also got it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThat was Mr English doing his usual strange reverse logic in trying to look equitable by saying that it is awful that rich people get the tax cut that poor people get. Of course, the point is that it is the other way around: poor people get the tax cut that rich people get, whereas if one does it the other way, and simply lowers the top rate, poor people do not get the tax cut that rich people get. But, of course, we were told that the important thing was the threshold. Under this bill the threshold that the top rate cuts in at is lower than under the existing legislation, because under the existing legislation it rises to $80,000 a year. Under this bill it goes up to only $70,000 a year. Do members remember when we were told that there was some kind of envy tax whereby the top tax rate would cut in at $60,000? That was in 1999 and 2000, which was 8 years ago. It is perfectly all right now to cut in at $70,000 a year some way down the track from here, and that is not some kind of envy tax! But, of course, the theory underlying this is that if marginal tax rates are lowered, people work harder. This is the capitalist version of the Stakhanovite worker\u2014much beloved of the Soviet Union. This approach says that if we kept an extra 1c or 2c in the dollar, we would all work miles harder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWell, Mr Bridges will not do so. He will get paid the same anyway; it does not matter how hard he works. Members should look at National members; most of them have not done a stroke of work for the last 3 years. That is becoming very obvious in the way they have carried on in the House in the last day or two. They have not done a stroke of work. They are pretty well paid. They received a personal tax cut on 1 October and did not even say thank you for that; it just was not big enough\u2014they want more, please! In fact, the marginal tax rate goes up on those people who earn between $14,000 and $20,000 a year\u2014the people we want to encourage into work who are on benefits, to earn a bit and to help themselves get started and move along. The superannuitants want to keep a little bit of work, to earn a bit, so their marginal tax rate goes up from $70,000 to $80,000 a year. That is a lot of senior teachers and nurses and other people, who will be paying a higher marginal tax rate than they would have done under the current legislation. It goes down to Mr Foss, who does not believe in work. He is the poor man\u2019s John Key. He went overseas and did not make a fortune, then came back to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe have one area where there is a big cut in the marginal tax rate. Where is it? Between $42,500 and $44,000 a year, the marginal tax rate goes down 13c. So we will see an extraordinary country, a country where people earning low incomes will work less, because that must be the theory\u2014the marginal tax rate goes up. People in the next range will work exactly the same amount, because their marginal tax rate has not changed. Then there will be this extraordinary group of heroes of the new sort of capitalist Soviet Union, earning from $42,500 to $44,000\u2014the turbocharged people of New Zealand\u2014who will be working incredibly hard until they get to $44,000 a year. Then, suddenly, they will stop working harder as there is no point, because their marginal tax rate would now be back to where it was going to be before, in any case. Of course, if the taxpayers are independent credit earners, then their marginal tax rate would not be 20c in the dollar but 32c in the dollar. So there is basically no change, at all. So from an economist\u2019s perspective there are no real incentives in this at all that make any difference to people working harder. So the theory then became\u2014because they have kept trying to invent new theories\u2014that the whole purpose was a stimulus for an economy in recession, which many countries have been in for some time. But, in fact, if one wants to stimulate an economy in a recession, one does something temporary to increase demand in the short term, but one does not, in a country with a chronic current account deficit and a chronic savings problem, have a structural change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u002204ee8f4dde2647c2a2a5e591bae7c3a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204ee8f4dde2647c2a2a5e591bae7c3a2\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I am following on from the man who lost about $5 billion or $6 billion in the last couple of months from the New Zealand economy, so those words were rich coming from Michael Cullen. The so-called promised tax cuts for New Zealand workers were in legislation that was never going to be delivered, because Michael Cullen would have delivered a post-election Budget that took away those tax cuts. That was Labour\u2019s real plan. Michael Cullen should be honest and tell the Committee what he really wanted to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EToday National is delivering on its promises. We are giving tax cuts to those hard-working New Zealanders who have been out there slaving away for 9 years, working hard, making all the right choices, and taking the right directions in their lives. They needed some support from the Government. They needed a Government that would stand up and deliver for them and give them the right signals and incentives to keep on that track\u2014the signals and incentives that build a strong country\u2014and that is what National is doing here today. National will give people tax cuts. We will make sure they have that reward for their hard work. We are giving them that reward for making the right decisions, and we are making them successful in the world economy. We will give them the money to help them actually go out there and survive in an economy that is difficult, an economy that is in recession as a result of the failed policies of the previous Labour Government, and we will actually give them an economy that will deliver a future for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThis bill is the first part of delivering a growth economy. Through the personal tax cuts, this bill will give the impetus needed for the New Zealand economy to grow and be successful. With a growing economy, we can deliver in all the other areas of social spending, of research and development, and also of growth in our infrastructural investment, which New Zealand desperately needs and has not had in the last 9 years. The National Government, with its coalition partners, will deliver a tax cut programme. We will not just talk about it; we will not just put legislation out that is about some time in the future. We will actually deliver that tax cut programme, and that is what we as a Government are about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EWe will deliver for the people of New Zealand. That is what the people on the street have been saying. They like what they see. They see a Government that says what it will do and then actually delivers it. That is what members are seeing here today. We will not muck around trying to tell people there is a better future sometime around the corner; we will deliver that better future now. We will give it to people in the first 100 days in Government; we will give them some constructive changes that deliver to hard-working New Zealanders. We will not lead them on a path and say we know best and they do not have choices in their lives; we will give them those choices. We will give them money in their hands so that they can make those choices; we will give them the personal tax cuts that are in this legislation. The tax cuts enable people, as individuals and as families, to make the right decisions about what they want to spend their money on, so that they can actually deliver for their families in these hard economic times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThese personal tax cuts are the first stage of delivering a brighter future for New Zealand. They are the first stage of delivering a situation where people can go out there and actually live the lifestyle that they expect to live in the First World. We need to give that impetus to the New Zealand economy, and we need to give that strength to our people who are experiencing hard-working days and reward them for their work. That is what National is about. We are here to deliver for New Zealanders\u2014to deliver for the working people of this country. That is what this legislation is here for, and we will deliver to New Zealanders through personal tax cuts as part of that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EIf we look at the personal tax cut regime, we see that a big part of it is the independent earner tax credit, which is a great initiative. It is good for those young people who are making a start out there. They want to actually get some reward for their hard work. They do not want to be just looked down on; they want to be told they are doing the right things for themselves and for their country. Through the independent earner tax credit we are giving them that support. We are going out there and saying they are doing the right thing, and we are going to help them and make them more successful, and give them the opportunities that they desire in their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThat is what this legislation is about. It is about giving the right start for New Zealanders in a tough time, because it is tough out there and the world economy will get tougher. We need to give New Zealanders the ability to get through this tough time, and in order to get through it we have to give them some money in their hand, which is what this tax cut programme is about. It is about giving some stimulation to the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u002203fd9c7b683d4713a1d14cb4c84e86da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203fd9c7b683d4713a1d14cb4c84e86da\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I want to know what David Bennett will say when he goes back to Hamilton East and talks to the folk who come into his constituency clinic\u2014presumably he has one\u2014who are earning between $14,000 and $24,000 a year. What will the member say when they say: \u201CMr Bennett, you promised us a tax cut, but under your tax changes we are paying more tax.\u201D? What answer will Mr Bennett give to the people in Hamilton East? What about when the hard-working family that Mr Bennett has just told the Committee he is representing comes in? They are earning less than $44,000 and they will come in and say: \u201CMr Bennett, you said you were going to look after the hard-working battlers in your electorate, but under your tax changes\u2014the National Government\u2019s tax changes\u2014we\u2019re paying more tax.\u201D What will Mr Bennett say to those people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe title of this part of the bill\u2014\u201CPersonal tax cuts\u201D\u2014is a lie. It is a lie for many New Zealanders because for lower-income people, the hard-working battlers of this country, these so-called tax cuts are not tax cuts, at all; they are tax increases for those people. The Labour Party will vote against this legislation because of the unfairness of it. We know that people at the bottom of the heap\u2014the people who struggle to pay the bills, the people who struggle to get their kids to school and to meet the cost of living\u2014get nothing from the National Government. But if we turn up at a decile 10 school where the children\u2019s parents are earning big money, we see that they will be getting hundreds of dollars of tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe ordinary New Zealander has a sense of fairness. The ordinary New Zealander believes that people need to be given a fair go. Sixty-six percent of Mr Bennett\u2019s electorate is earning less than $44,000\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d641e32453d4f259bf3f8468cc17384\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc3cb18604a3423e9846a6454b6692e4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Sixty-six percent. I ask Mr Bennett what he will say to the battlers to explain why they are paying more tax, while those on a good income, such as Mr Bennett himself, will probably get $100-plus in tax cuts. I ask Mr Bennett where the fairness is there. There is no fairness, and that is why we are opposed to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe rhetoric that we heard in the Speech from the Throne was about how this National Government was not going to tolerate an underclass, and how it was going to stand up for the rights of the everyday New Zealander. What about the everyday New Zealander who was promised a tax cut by the National Party in Opposition, and now finds that in fact he or she will be worse off than if there had been a Labour Government and they were receiving the tax cuts that had already been legislated for? What about a couple where the man is earning $35,000 a year? Many people in Mr Bennett\u2019s electorate are in that situation: the man is earning $35,000 a year, and probably is working in a factory; the wife may be earning somewhat less\u2014say, $22,000 a year\u2014because she is looking after the kids. They will actually be $14 a week worse off because of the so-called tax cuts that Mr Bennett has just got up in front of this Committee to defend. What will Mr Bennett say to those people? I would like to know the answer to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213203b7b198249fc9efffd53f5639d66\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CSorry.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022967d3e808a2a4374ad649c443113dd4b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CSorry.\u201D That is what he will have to say. \u201CSorry. Oh, you didn\u2019t read the fine print?\u201D\u2014as Mr English said\u2014\u201CIt was all there. We didn\u2019t say it\u2014we put it in the fine print.\u201D That couple did not read the fine print so I am sorry but, caveat emptor, they have ended up with a National Government cutting their living standards, not raising them as they had been promised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe truth is the National Government does not give a damn about the Kiwi battler. Those members do not even pay lip-service to the decent society that Jim Bolger once talked about. What happened to the decent society? What happened to that sense of fairness? The truth is that the people who will be paying more tax are the same people who are most vulnerable to job loss. As we saw, again, from the Speech from the Throne, there is no plan and there is no vision from this National Government about how it will protect people\u2019s jobs. It can talk about tax cuts till the cows come home, but if one does not have a job, then a tax cut is no use. There was a lack of planning by National. It wasted 9 years in Opposition. It had no plan to deal with a situation where jobs might be threatened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe people whom we heard about yesterday are the same people who will be denied protection against unfair dismissal. In the first 3 months of their working life they can be sacked for being pregnant, sacked for their eyes being the wrong colour, and sacked for standing up for their rights, and there is no right for them to get redress for the unfairness of those actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI tell Mr Flavell that I have a question for the M\u0101ori Party. This legislation is the first test for the M\u0101ori Party in this House. This legislation, whose first reading was voted for by the M\u0101ori Party, will damage the economic interests of almost all of that member\u2019s constituents. The M\u0101ori Party members are collaborating with the National-ACT Government in doing that. This legislation is the first test for the M\u0101ori Party members as to whether they would stand up for the interests of their electorates, and they have been found wanting. They have been found wanting, because they are supporting this legislation, which undermines the rights, the income, and the living standards of ordinary M\u0101ori working families, who will be punished by this legislation. Those families will say to you, Mr Flavell, that you will go the same way as other M\u0101ori electorate members who made promises, then joined with a National Government\u2014M\u0101ori electorate members collaborated with the last National Government\u2014and failed to deliver and to stand up for the rights of your people. You should hang your head in shame at what you are doing in the Chamber today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b170d099a1e45e5bdaed87e75de1000\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. This member seems to be unaware of the Standing Order that we cannot address members of Parliament in that fashion\u2014quite apart from the very distasteful language he is using. He was told yesterday by the Speaker not to use that terminology. He is doing it again today, and I suggest that the Chairperson advise him to become aware of the Standing Order and to practise applying it in the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e83129b1b20f4b8a82d0bd5e08d53030\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The Deputy Prime Minister has a habit of taking this point of order when Labour members are speaking. The speaker before Mr Goff, Mr Bennett, repeated exactly the same phrase all through his speech, but we did not pull him up on it. We let the debate flow. The Deputy Prime Minister has decided he will raise this point whenever a Labour member is speaking. I thought we had one standard of citizenship in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255ea878517d64da69002033482352070\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is also important that when the Deputy Prime Minister opines on these matters, he is accurate. There are Speakers\u2019 rulings on this matter; I think he will find that there is not a Standing Order. I think he should have a bit of a look at the Standing Orders, and, the next time he goes to break up a speech, at least get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d05c54c72684b1787dda06255cafd49\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I will speak to the senior Opposition whip\u2019s comment about our being the only ones today to bring up the point about incorrect use of \u201Cyou\u201D. The Hon Trevor Mallard over there has brought it up on numerous occasions. In fact, throughout the second reading debate he brought up that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252618aaa5222442ab5bb63abcf01e00b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Let me make a quick ruling. Firstly, members know that they must raise a point of order at the time\u2014that is important. Members cannot say that because they did not raise a point, it should not be raised. It is a matter of whether the institutional understanding and rules of the House are being broken. That is the first point. With regard to the point of order, I think the Committee needs to bear in mind that when it moves away from a certain standard of decorum, that does bring a degree of unrest within the Committee, which is not helpful to the debate. I ask the member to continue, and to bear in mind the points I have made. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdc17ab1e5384f6ea6cc4a6b786c66f3\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson. The first reason we have opposed this legislation is its inherent unfairness. The second reason is just as legitimate. It concerns how these tax cuts will be paid for. The first way in which they will be paid for is through cutting $1.5 billion out of research and development. At the time when New Zealand needs to be smarter than its competitors, this National Government is paying for short-term tax cuts by undermining the ability of our economy to be smart, to be innovative, to be creative, and to be competitive. One award-winning exporting company, Endace Ltd, made the comment through its chief executive, Mike Riley, that this cut flies in the face of the knowledge economy. We know that New Zealand, as a small and geographically isolated country, needs to be smarter than its competitors. That cut to research and development undermines our ability to be smarter, and undermines the ability of our industry to create the jobs we need to move forward in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe second thing that is cut, of course, is KiwiSaver. Every economist for decades has told New Zealand that New Zealanders need to be greater savers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f00a9185d588440c98940aa8c4411ec2\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We are on Part 1, which deals with tax cuts, but the member is talking about KiwiSaver and research and development tax credits, which have nothing to do with Part 1, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7d21074e1064f8f92da9af459b1bd9d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: There is a certain degree of flexibility. Members can raise issues for purposes of comparison. I do not think the Minister\u2014no, the Hon Phil Goff\u2014had strayed too far away from that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b8e7d4cc84945df9c33536efa85f1d5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Your form of address is 2 years and 10 months premature, Mr Chairman!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe second way in which the tax cuts are being paid for is by gutting KiwiSaver\u2014taking $3.5 billion out of the savings accounts of New Zealanders, who for the first time in our history have been given the opportunity and the motivation to save. This bill is a disaster from that point of view, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022b32e7870974f4ea781410c4359a1f135\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b32e7870974f4ea781410c4359a1f135\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to Part 1, but first I congratulate you, Mr Chairperson, on your appointment as Assistant Speaker of this Parliament. Secondly, I want to address a couple of the comments made by the Leader of the Opposition, who will be ankle-tapped by Shane Jones before he gets to 2 years and 11 months from now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003EThe difficulty we face in this debate, as politicians, is that the community wants more police to be on the streets. It wants better health services, it wants lots of big roads, it wants excellent welfare benefits, and it wants to pay lower taxes. People want to pay lower taxes, and that is why they voted against the last Labour Government. They knew that too many taxes were being collected, which were being spent inefficiently. We on this side of the Chamber want to avoid inefficiency, because if we did not, we would pass up the opportunity to make somebody better off at no cost to anybody else. That is what we do by increasing efficiency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003EBut taxes, by their very nature, cause some inefficiency, and most of us think we need to pay less tax. Most of us think\u2014and this is the essence of the Labour Party\u2019s argument\u2014that taxes are about only the redistribution of income, to a lesser or greater extent, from the rich to the poor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cff4471760aa464e8a1ee569542c9cb6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: This is redistribution from the poor to the rich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4078038c053451db771edbdfbb414b2\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we have two contradictory imperatives, I tell Mr Mallard. The first is to avoid needless waste\u2014and he wasted plenty, particularly through Sport and Recreation New Zealand\u2014and the second thing is that we want to decrease inefficiency and increase efficiency, while making sure that wealth is at least somewhat evenly distributed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003EThis legislation aims to make the New Zealand economy both efficient and fair\u2014both efficient and fair. If we look at the actual cuts that are being made, we see there is no change for people at the bottom of the income levels. Those who earn less than $14,000 a year will pay 12.5 percent in tax. The next step, to increase efficiency and put more money in the pockets of individual taxpayers, applies to those who earn $14,000 to $48,000 a year, who will have a 21 percent tax rate. The maximum income for that group will be moved to $48,000 a year, so those earners will be significantly better off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003EWe want to put more money in people\u2019s pockets. We want to stop them leaving, at a rate of 80,000 people a year, and going to Australia. People deserted Labour, but National is interested in keeping those people in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003EI will address the comments made by the Leader of the Opposition, when he said we were cutting research and development payments. That is completely untrue. He was arguing that there will be a huge drop in research and development in this country. That is not the case at all. Labour\u2019s policy involved borrowing $700 million, and in year 1\u2014this next financial year\u2014paying out $20 million for research and development, in year 2 paying out $30 million, and in year 3 paying out $40 million. That is not what we are doing. We are paying out $75 million a year, over each of the next 3 years. That is significantly more than what Labour was going to pay for research and development, but we are doing it in a different way from Labour. We did not have to borrow $700 million in order to kick off that fund, and that is why we are able to start from lower base borrowing than the Labour Government did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003EThis is not a 1-year programme; Mr English has been extremely ingenious in constructing this tax package. In the year from 1 April 2010, for the earners group of $14,001 to $48,000 a year, we will lift the limit to $50,000 a year and give those people a tax cut. We will increase the tax cut available to people earning from $50,000 to $70,000 a year. Again, in year 3\u2014in 2011\u2014people in the $14,000 to $50,000 a year earners group will get a significant reduction in tax. That will be the pattern in every year. Why will we do that? We need to put money into people\u2019s pockets. When I go to Kur\u012Bpuni in Masterton in my electorate, I see people who are on an average wage of $12 to $15 per hour. We need to help those people, because they have children to bring up, holidays to take, and transport to pay for. Tax cuts will pay for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u00225d0ffa5721b140ef9939cf9732fb2bcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d0ffa5721b140ef9939cf9732fb2bcc\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I think that John Hayes, who I understand comes from Wairarapa, has an incredible cheek to speak on the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, because Wairarapa, other than the electorate of Dunedin North, which mainly consists of students, is the electorate in the country with the most people aged 15 years and over who earn $40,000 or less. This is the very group that has been most attacked by this legislation. I do not know whether John Hayes is thick, whether he has not read it, or whether he is being a hypocrite. I do not know which of those things he is doing, but I will leave one out and just say that he is silly. It is one or two of the other words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497d3a93db5f41698872f4216f5e5bdf\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Why don\u2019t you just come across and punch him. That\u2019s a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e5f24c2bc3748288a08449a0cd31bce\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Next time he tries to throttle me, I will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EGetting back to the legislation, I say that John Hayes did not understand the way that thresholds interplay with rates. As a result of this, he did not understand what was in the legislation that is now being taken out. The tax changes previously legislated for the threshold rate currently at $14,000 going to $20,000. The effect of this change means a loss of almost $500 a year to some of the poorest income earners. That is without doing some other things as well that impact on them in the KiwiSaver, and other changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI ask John Hay whether, when he goes to Masterton East, to the poorer areas, and to some of those schools, he will explain to people that he is putting his hand into their pockets, taking their wallets, and taking out $9 or $10\u2014not a year, but every week. I wonder whether John Hay is prepared to act as a personal tax collector for the chief executive of Telecom, whether he is prepared to wander around 50 M\u0101ori families, to take $10 a week from out of each of their pockets, and hand it over to the chief executive of Telecom, who gets the extra $500. Is John Hayes prepared to work his way around? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8c0ac578ea64ab7951cc60fa9c51ec5\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: His true colours are being shown right there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022821134c0865440238e90957f354c8844\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I am making it very, very clear that the M\u0101ori Party is collaborating with this change, which will result in John Hay going around M\u0101ori families, and getting the tax collector to put his hand into the pocket of those M\u0101ori families\u2014not all of them, only the poor ones\u2014and taking out from their pockets $9 or $10 a week, and handing it over to the chief executive of Telecom, and his like. How many M\u0101ori families will John Hay have to go around in Masterton East? He will have to go around about 50 or 60 families to collect up the tax cut, which is being handed over to people on the highest incomes in New Zealand. As well as that, will he be prepared to tell the people in Masterton that the taxation bureaucracy in Wellington will climb enormously to handle the provisions of clause 12, which is within this part of the bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e440df5fec0f45c7a211e759e0b2f2ea\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Speakers\u2019 ruling 26/7 is quite specific about the use of the correct name. The member of Wairarapa whom you were referring to as Mr Hay is actually Mr Hayes. It is a small point, but if we do not use correct names, names can be used in a way that is inappropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c9a17de0c334db19596e7d57b51a91c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Which one is the correct one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022508cc08c69bb4eb581ae792ade23d312\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Hayes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cff0559d5f54a23aabb03fe50cb0e08\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman and I apologise to the member. He is one of a number of the back benchers who have not quite made an impression over the 6 years that they been in Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244a4292206c84bd58bfcb0b364728062\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Only for 3 years!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022535d9219c54f49a8aad7ec14decb4538\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No wonder I did not notice him in the first 3 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EReturning to the bill, I ask the Minister in the chair, Bill English, who I understand will take a call, what the extra budget is for the Inland Revenue Department to implement schedule 1 in clause 12 of this bill. Clearly this will involve a lot of extra work for the Inland Revenue Department. It will require extra staff, and I want to know whether these extra staff have been provided, and what the costs of those extra staff are to implement the schedules of the bill. I want to know from the Minister of Finance whether these staff will be regarded as front-line staff, or not. Are the people who are working out these credits, and it might be a very cunning job creation scheme on the part of the National Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff0f4cf77782474b987c88ecbab4419d\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We are wandering way off Part 1. Tax credits are in Part 3 of the bill. This is Part 1. Can you bring the member back to the part, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8bd1f881453428d83e7e2c7382fd567\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I point out that clause 12 is in Part 1, and it is the clause that puts in the schedule that implements the employers\u2019 superannuation contribution tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022064d9d30998f43e5b9bde21c38a84212\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I will not uphold the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5293582c4bc407080361e70ff95d245\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The point I was getting to is that the bureaucracy that will be involved in this could well be a cunning job creation scheme to make sure that the unemployment in the electorate of Wellington Central\u2014the electorate of Grant Robertson\u2014does not fall. I want to know whether that is a deliberate policy. And I want to know from Sir Roger Douglas whether he regards clause 12 as something that is efficient, that is pure, and that works towards a fair tax system, or whether he regards it as something that pushes up the marginal tax rate\u2014the effective tax rate\u2014for a lot of lower and middle income earners. Because that is what it does. It pushes up the marginal tax rate, and at the same time it requires a bureaucracy of tax officials in order to check probably tens of thousands\u2014and maybe hundreds of thousands\u2014of returns, to make sure that people are eligible. In fact, it puts a whole new group of people into the group who have to file returns in order to get changes in tax rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EWe have had quite a good system over the past few years in New Zealand, where fewer and fewer people have had to file tax returns because it is all done as part of the wash-up, and if people consider they have been fairly treated, then they do not have to file a return. One of the effects of this bill will be that a whole new group of people, probably hundreds of thousands of people, will have to file a return, which then has to be processed. And we have to employ people to process it. Rather than moving towards being efficient, towards being proactive, and towards chasing some of the delinquents, in the way that has been done under the previous Minister of Finance\u2014and that has had, I think it is fair to say, very good effects on the revenue\u2014we will have, as a result of clause 12 in Part 1, a new army of people who look at the forms being sent in, load them into the computer, and then check them at the end of the year\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239714280a61f4ba78e8e7eb0c7d3c33d\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Is it definite it\u2019s a wash-up yearly, or\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208b79830964a4f4ea0cdd7dee415499c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, no; it can be in the wash-up yearly, or it can be the other way. It does not matter; whichever approach is taken, there needs to be either bureaucrats at the front end or bureaucrats at the back end, if it is to be done as a wash-up. As a member of the Labour Party, and somebody who has had a lot to do with the Public Service Association (PSA), I welcome the approach of the Minister of Finance in building PSA membership. Building up PSA numbers is, I think, a good thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u00223c92240836f44437a032d300b48aa9cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c92240836f44437a032d300b48aa9cd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It is interesting hearing from a Leader of the Opposition who cannot tell the difference between a decile 1 and a decile 10 school, and I expect that reflects the kinds of dilemmas that the Labour members will have to deal with over the next few years as they try to decide who they are. Let us just\u2014[Interruption] Well the public is not listening either, to be quite frank. I think that is the difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003ELet me make a couple of points clear. This is a different tax package from the previous Labour Government\u2019s tax package. There has been ample opportunity over the last 12 months for everyone to poke and prod and discuss the details of it, and the public did that. Then there was a general election. The only reason we have this bill, with the National Party\u2019s tax package in it, is that the public of New Zealand voted in a different Government. If the public wanted the former Labour Government\u2019s tax package, they had the opportunity to vote for it, and they did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons they did not is the spin and crocodile tears that the nasty, dirty previous Labour Government had got into the habit of using. Let us just look at some of the stories Labour members are telling. The member from Hutt South\u2014I do not know how he managed to win the seat, actually\u2014talked about taking cash out of people\u2019s pockets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThat is actually just wrong. No one is going to be worse off as a result of our passing this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237efb5b7957148ccb3778223b953fa0c\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes, they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccd84db07e3d4624ba4e67301a19b52e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, they are not. The Labour Party keeps putting up some cases where if Labour had been re-elected and if it had kept its promises about taxes, which it never did before, then some people would have got more. That is bound to be the case when this is a different tax package. The thresholds and rates are different. But let us talk about some of the people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bb7dbc8fe9e4a57ab36f30b6e988b1d\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s intellectually dishonest and the member knows it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b78e087d9e374009ba0e4077644d3c21\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is just a different tax package. I know the Labour members find it very difficult to understand that if one gets elected into Government, it is to execute one\u2019s policy, and that when one gets thrown out of Government, it is because people did not want one\u2019s policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022994ecfbad94f45dc9fcdfdbc384b308e\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Arrogant!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d881f916f5424a438ebeeab67f728d16\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no; that is what the voters think. I just accept their verdict. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003ELet us take some of the people whom Labour members say they are crying about\u2014the 630,000 low-income New Zealanders who will get the independent earner rebate. They got nothing under Labour, in 9 years of low incomes in the best economic period of a generation, and they know that. Every person without children who was earning under $44,000 got nothing\u2014nothing. Full-time earners earning $24,000 to $44,000 got zero. The reason families do not get a big benefit out of this package is that in the last 2 or 3 years they have had big benefits. Their after-tax incomes have gone up very substantially. National has locked in the Working for Families package in its entirety, and now it is the turn of the 630,000 people for whom those members now cry crocodile tears, but for whom, for a decade, they did nothing to help. Now it is their turn, and National is delivering a tax package that will give 630,000 low and middle income earners\u2014yes; members of unions who voted for us because they thought Labour would give them something\u2014some benefits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThose people waited loyally for a decade and they got nothing, and Labour is telling us today that we are making a mistake in giving it to them. Well, that is what we will say, when we go back to our electorates, to people earning $35,000 who got nothing from Labour in 10 years. We will say that we promised them something and here it is, and that Phil Goff is trying to stop it\u2014630,000 people. The Labour caucus thinks that Mr \u201CPhil-in\u201D is the answer. Well, the reason he is not the answer is that he has not understood that fundamental political problem for Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThese personal tax cuts deliver substantial weekly gains to the 630,000 people who were ignored by Labour, despite the fact that in three elections in a row, a good proportion of them voted Labour. That is why those Labour members are out of touch and out of Government. Those people got tired of being told that it was the students, it was the people with families, or it was the bureaucrats who would get the next $300 million, but those hard-working, battling Kiwis who do not happen to have children would get nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThis is a balanced package, because we are locking in the gains families made, which were considerable, and we are keeping them in their entirety\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf4cbf32632f4bf2b51d1d37c65e7250\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, what a generous man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6eeb22547594b6193d7914c62bca2de\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we cannot have everything, I say to Dr Cullen, as he used to tell everybody\u2014and we have added to that a mechanism that provides increasing weekly incomes for 630,000 people who earn under $44,000. These are not the higher-income high fliers. These are Mr Cosgrove\u2019s heartland voters, which is why he lost the party vote in his electorate. I ask when Labour members are going to figure that out, and when they are going to figure out that some people hearing the crocodile tears today from Labour just will not believe it, because they know it is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EWhat about other people who earn under $20,000? Well, 300,000 of them are beneficiaries. I ask what the Labour Government did for those people through a decade of the best economic times we will see in a generation. Mr Goff did not mention them, but I bet he will now he is in Opposition. He will go on and on about what National is doing to beneficiaries, when he did nothing for them. When Labour members go on about who is affected by the changes in these tax rates, I say that a big part of that group under $20,000 are beneficiaries. The other group are superannuitants. Superannuitants are the biggest single group who earn under $20,000, and they are considerably better off as a result of these tax cuts. In our constituent clinics, we are going to say to them: \u201CWe promised you more super through lower taxes, and we have delivered you more super through lower taxes. It\u2019s that simple.\u201D They\u2019ll go: \u201CWell, that\u2019s a fair cop. I didn\u2019t vote for you, but next time I will, because you kept your word.\u201D That is the other big group under $20,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party will cry crocodile tears. There will be some people where the rates and thresholds mean that compared with what Labour would have done if it had been elected\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3a415997fb44d3eac7fd36482e29275\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s the current law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221363e1a0e7c44374b069885b2a71fadf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the 2005 \u201Cchewing gum tax cuts\u201D were the law, and we remember what happened to that. Broken promises on tax cuts meant half the people did not believe Labour would keep its promises on these tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291f0701fa4fe4d82a2070fc8ca622f04\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022566f6a0a98f540b0ab112a26bd532280\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I ask why Labour members are in Opposition if they had such a magnificent tax package. It has to be because people did not believe them, and they were right not to believe them, because the last time Labour made promises about tax cuts, it broke those promises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThis bill is a step in a direction of a broad based - low rate tax system. It delivers benefits for many people who missed out on the benefits of economic growth in the last 10 years, and we are very pleased to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbbcd38deaeb42c0bf0c01b0de1720c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbbcd38deaeb42c0bf0c01b0de1720c0\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What a collection of blatherskite we have just heard from the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Finance!. He was trying to put the Tory spin on policy that is going to hurt the most vulnerable in our society. It does not matter how Mr English cuts up the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill package here in this House: we know the truth about what is happening to vulnerable New Zealanders today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EHe had the cheek to tell this House and New Zealanders listening that if we had wanted to discuss the National Party\u2019s tax policy, we had had a whole year to do so. That is what he told us. Well, I have to say to Mr English that his nose grew an inch, because the National Party released its tax policy in October this year, and New Zealanders and this House had no opportunity to debate it. People on the hustings had to get what information they could from a website. They had to scrounge for information in order to be able to debate that policy. That is the truth of the matter. The National Party released its policy in October this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI ask why it would release it so late. It was because National did not want scrutiny of its tax policy. It did not want New Zealanders to know that it was going to pull the biggest Christmas hoax on New Zealanders that anyone has pulled since Ruth Richardson in 1991. That is what National was doing. Mr English backed up Ruth Richardson then, and he is doing it now. She was the mistress who taught him the tricks he is using now when he has the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EMr English said this bill is going to help hard-working Kiwis who had got nothing under a Labour Government for 9 long years. He referred to people who did not have families. He said the Labour Government had looked after those with families. Of course, that was \u201Ccommunism by stealth\u201D a few months ago, and National voted against it at the time; now it has adopted it. But he did say that we had looked after families. What National has bravely and courageously done is to look after people who have not got families\u2014hard-working, poor New Zealanders. Mr Bennett is shaking his head. I hope he realises that hard-working, poor New Zealanders must have a net income of $24,000 before they can access National\u2019s independent earner tax credit. So the lowest-paid New Zealanders who do not have children, the most vulnerable, who probably have a gross income of around, say, $30,000, do not get anything. I ask Mr English why they are not included. I ask why they do not get the tax credit, which he said was for the battlers, the hard-working Kiwis of New Zealand. They do not count. They do not count because they do not vote National. That is how cynical it is. This policy is not about giving something to those who have not got children; it was a smart little manoeuvre during an election campaign to try to garner a few more votes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EPerhaps Mr English will tell us what happens to the hard-working, battling Kiwi families who earn $23,500 net\u2014the husband and wife both earning $23,500\u2014and whether they get this tax credit. No, they do not qualify. They have a very low income, they are working hard, but they get diddly-squat. The words about caring about New Zealanders, the low paid, the vulnerable, and the underclass of New Zealand are nothing more than a hoax on the people of New Zealand. I ask why this tax credit does not cover all of those people, if caring about New Zealanders was the genuine intent of the National Party. We have seen through the tricks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI just have been in a taxi. We all know that taxi drivers know everything. They are already starting to wonder what this is all about. National has been in this House for 3 days, and its first attacks are on the vulnerable New Zealanders. Its first attacks are on women, children, the low paid, and the people who do not have children\u2014the very ones National said it was going to support. I can tell members that in my own constituency of Rongotai almost 30,000 people earn less than $40,000. In some way or other, they will be affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022 data-id=\u0022f60fc27145b64a94826a9ee3b9f203e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f60fc27145b64a94826a9ee3b9f203e1\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to speak on the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, Part 1, \u201CPersonal tax cuts\u201D. It is absolutely extraordinary that the Opposition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022464e163d27ea46578ade96f93f6240be\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Speak up for the common man. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa69f708530f430ababc424faa4dbce9\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: I missed that. Would Dr Cullen like to say it again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9ae25248a3f4de487d02e4f496b97fa\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Speak up for the common man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227902e4533aad4ee98aa89cc9ae9fe43c\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, because that is what Dr Cullen did not do back in 1999, when he said he would raise New Zealand to the top half of the OECD. I ask members what happened. We went down two slots, and that affected the common man very, very deeply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EMr Chairman, I personally congratulate you on your appointment as Assistant Speaker. I am sure you will do an absolutely superb job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EWhat I think is extraordinary is that this tawdry Opposition has not made any mention of the fact that we are in urgency over this bill. It is absolutely right and proper that this is going through under urgency because, after all, it has taken 9 long years of a very tawdry Labour Government before, finally, the New Zealand people are going to receive this well-deserved tax break. It is also quite extraordinary and ironical that when the Labour Government came into power back in 1999, the very first thing it did was to raise personal tax from 33c to 39c, and that was very ably pointed out by the new ACT member John Boscawen an hour or two ago this morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EThe very thing they did was to curb personal freedom and to curb incentives and signals for thrift, enterprise, and reward for effort. And it is no wonder that record numbers\u2014tens of thousands\u2014of New Zealanders have left this country for Australia. They left because the Labour Government had no understanding of the fact that New Zealanders wanted to have incentives to ensure they were indeed rewarded for effort. In the last year, 80,000 people left. New Zealanders left in huge numbers because they realised that the Labour Government was mediocre and had already caused New Zealand to go down two places on the OECD ladder. That, of course, very much affects the common person and affects his or her standard of living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EAfter all, it was Dr Cullen who mentioned Labour\u2019s legacy of 1990. Dr Cullen should remember that in 1990 New Zealand was technically bankrupt. Unemployment was at its highest level, inflation was about 7 percent, and interest rates were 22 percent. But let us shift on to 2008 after 9 years of Dr Cullen\u2019s regime. His Government came into office with a growth rate of 4.6 percent, and ever since it has gone down and down. His Government came in with a growth rate in the last quarter of 4.6 percent, and ever since then it has gone down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003ELook at it now. Look at the dire predictions of Treasury and the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update of 10 years of deficits. [Interruption] Well, I say to Dr Cullen that he is part of the fault; there is no doubt about that. That is the legacy left by Labour, and that indeed is part of the reason that so many New Zealanders have been leaving for Australia over the last 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EThe other point, of course, is that these personal tax cuts outlined in Part 1 are absolutely central to the concept of personal freedom and to the concept of reward for effort. This is something espoused by the National Party since 1936 as fundamental to getting an enterprise economy, and resisted year after year, Government after Government, by the Labour Party. That, I say to Dr Cullen, is why he is over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022848458a3dfe34ad3ae0803bb3fc94c63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022848458a3dfe34ad3ae0803bb3fc94c63\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E I think Treasury was quite clear on the platform that has been left by the well-managed Labour Government of the last 9 years. It has been quite specific about the performance and the free way forward for the Minister of Finance. The last speaker talked about 1990. I remind him about 1999, when, in relation to M\u0101ori people, the unemployment rate was tracking at 28 to 32 percent. When our term in Government finished it was tracking at 5 percent. At the end of the 9 years\u2014during the last 3 years\u2014M\u0101ori were going into the workforce at the rate of 4 to 1. That represents the very, very important effort that went not only into M\u0101ori but into all people in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EIt was really interesting to hear Mr Bennett talk about redistribution. He was quite right: it is redistribution of money from the poor and those who need it to the wealthy. He is revelling in those who are milking the till in his dairy-sodden area of Hamilton. And it is important to understand what Mr Hayes was trying to say. The National members opposite are making sure they are making hay over there, but this budget hints at what is to come in their period in office. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that this is one of the worst starts\u2014one of the most overrated starts\u2014by a financial manager in relation to a parliamentary session. This measure is disgraceful. It punishes the people who need the money, and it is being done with an attitude of arrogance. Mr Hayes will remember that in the time of the last National Government all the State houses in the Wairarapa were sold. A whole lot of hinting is going on by this Government\u2019s financial manager. There are hints that no more State houses will be built, and that landlords will have the right to manage housing issues in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EThis measure is about redistributing money that is not National\u2019s\u2014$3.5 billion out of KiwiSaver. That is outrageous. My plea to the M\u0101ori Party is not to support this bill, because it will hurt M\u0101ori people. It will hurt them badly. In terms of incomes of up to $40,000 a year, 73 percent of M\u0101ori will not get anything in this budget\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296eaecce868b4a6291600dee71dfd5f2\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ea48026cb484f08a6d1cae76db5ad9e\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: In this allocation. Last night Nick Smith said that this was the politics of envy. That was said in relation to the example we brought up of someone who was benefiting from Working for Families and KiwiSaver, and who has one child and earns $50,000 a year. He or she would lose $80 a week. What is the answer to that? It is outrageous. Bill English is pitching up the macro and making out that research and development funding is something this country does not need, when the unions, the Business Roundtable, and the Government agreed that would be the best injection to go forward on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EI ask the M\u0101ori Party what it is going to tell the 73 percent of our people who are working and who will get nothing in this budget. What are we going to do about that? Where is the improvement for our people that was promised by the National Party? M\u0101ori were hoodwinked going forward in relation to this financial statement. Mr English goes on about giving a fair go to earners who do not have children. It is fascinating when we line that up alongside the entry on KiwiSaver. He is going to take a fair bit out of research and development, but there is no mention of how much people will lose in relation to knocking KiwiSaver down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EThis measure is a disgrace. This is one of the most hurting entries in a parliamentary session for our M\u0101ori people, and the M\u0101ori Party is going to vote for it. Hone Harawira knows it is wrong. The members of that party are going to vote for this measure. They are going to support something that undermines the rights of their people, and they want to talk about other issues. But in relation to income\u2014[Interruption] What will they tell people in Flaxmere? What will Chris Tremain tell people when I see him wandering around there? What will he tell people in Camberley? He has nothing to tell them, and he knows that this issue is right on his doorstep. He knows that the people sitting in his electorate will be hard done by under this legislation. This bill is not fair, and the member knows that full well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EAt the end of the day this measure is not an improvement. It is bad for M\u0101ori people, and the M\u0101ori Party should vote against it. It still has time to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u002211be4bbabfa04900b358bb164461e2af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211be4bbabfa04900b358bb164461e2af\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00226b32220983624c1b8647b6260830098c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b32220983624c1b8647b6260830098c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to Part 1 in relation to the thresholds, and it is interesting that the Government moves so quickly to close the debate down. Again, I want to comment on a point made by Mr English. He made great play, when he got up to speak to Part 1, about the level these so-called tax cuts had dropped to. He alleged that the Labour Government had done nothing for low-income people. He talked about beneficiaries and said that the Labour Government had done nothing for these people. Of course the Labour Government did do a lot for beneficiaries. The primary thing it did was to give most of them a job. It created 350,000-plus jobs through its 9 years of Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EBut I just raise this point with Mr English, and I would be indebted if he would answer it. It is Mrs King\u2019s point in relation to the thresholds abating at the lowest level and the independent earner tax credit. I think he quoted the fact that 600,000 low-income people were going to be helped by this tax package. But I again put this scenario to him, and I would be grateful to hear his answer. A person on $23,999\u2014someone who does not breach the $24,000 threshold\u2014gets nothing. So let us say that we have a person on one side of the fence who earns $23,999 and gets nothing, and has a neighbour on the other side of the fence who earns $24,000 and kicks in and gets the tax credit. Well, what is fair about that? The so-called low-income people that Mr English\u2014late in life in his career in politics\u2014says he has decided to actually think about, and maybe do something about, will get nothing from this package. I invite Mr English to deal with that point. We are debating the tax thresholds kicking in and abating, whereby if I am on $23,999, I get nothing, but my neighbour across the fence, once this kicks in at $24,000, will get something. I am addressing the Minister\u2019s point in rebuttal, which is valid, because he got to his feet and raised that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI would like to know where that person will acquire the aspiration that National kept talking about during the election. How will that person choose a brighter future? Does a brighter future even exist for that person? Where would that person go hunting for it? That was the aspirational rhetoric used by Mr English during the campaign. One would think that everybody was sucking up aspiration through every pore. Well, a person on $23,000 who does not breach $24,000 ain\u2019t getting a lot of aspiration, ain\u2019t getting a lot of help, and ain\u2019t getting any assistance at all. These single people with no kids, the quartile that Mr English says his Government will help, will get nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ENational members did not campaign on this package, but Mr English says they went around the country, and line by line every person went through it with a microscope. He said they were all told exactly what they would get. Well, this huge group of people I referred to must have been told they would get nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaf6f2a0f0b249b789ace3bfa0fb506d\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d757457a583f406db4f18ac38ddbf1c5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, they were not told. It was never announced. There is a word for that behaviour. If members look at page 2 of the New Zealand Herald they will see that people earning less than 40K will get zip. That fact was never canvassed with the electorate at all. I invite Mr Hayes to go and find 10 or 20 of his constituents on $23,999, singles, and say to them: \u201CYou knew that we, the National Party in Government, were going to give you nothing.\u201D I invite him to find five people, or even two people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c52d852a0a70432ba51e41656832fdd8\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Did he tell them that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228057c7c39a724a64939b9edb0bf3014a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Did Mr Hayes tell that to his constituents? Oh, no. I bet he could not find one person. He should take out an advertisement in his local paper inviting all those people on $23,999, with no kids, who will get nothing from this package, to write to him and confirm that they knew all about this before they voted at the election. I doubt he would get one reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235137460089d4ae5849db06238ce3a23\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: 12.5 percent is just brilliant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220efd0b39f8f44e1d8c4d661b9d62e408\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I put a question, through the Chair, to Mr Hayes: \u201CCan you name a person in your electorate who knew about this? Did people know about this?\u201D. I bet they did not say that to the Sir Les Patterson of this Parliament. They did not know about this, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe2ffe80484f4a5f8181d1e6fd8a211a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe2ffe80484f4a5f8181d1e6fd8a211a\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E It is with great consideration that I move that the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022 data-id=\u002274407aa003ef486b8d7f693f0f9c301b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274407aa003ef486b8d7f693f0f9c301b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member is out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u002251518163a6c44bec98c56423cd969603\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251518163a6c44bec98c56423cd969603\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We have heard Government members extolling the affordability of these tax cuts, and then in the same breath saying that they have inherited a difficult set of financial cards from the Labour Government. I want to put on record the nonsense that has already been written into history by the previous National Government. It left the prior Labour Government with debt that was 35 percent of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fcb45b30f42462ead3f34ceda25e846\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8033a6252a04046a55fab0c0f80dd3b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was 35 percent of GDP. Not as bad as the National Government before that, which left the Labour Government with debt at 60 percent of GDP, but still too high. We inherited debt equal to 35 percent of GDP. We reduced it during the 9 years of wise stewardship under the Labour Government to 17 percent of GDP. The fiscal position of the Government is very, very good. We are hearing exaggerated rhetoric from the National-led Government that is now complaining that there are all sorts of hidden expenses. It is overstating things in respect of accident compensation. National members are saying that they have all sorts of problems and a difficult set of cards to play from here on. But the reality is that they have had a very good set of fiscal settings left to them\u2014debt at 17 percent of GDP, and low unemployment, amongst the lowest unemployment in the world\u2014and they still complain that they have a difficult set of cards. Over the next 3 years we will hear National members say they cannot do this, they cannot do that, and that it was the Labour Government\u2019s fault. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EBut the reality is different. National has inherited an almost unparalleled position compared with most developed countries in the world. We are in a position to help people in New Zealand get through this recession, but this bill does not do it. It does not help the people who need it most. Low-income people do not get help under this bill. In fact, money comes out of their pockets, not just out of the pockets of those in KiwiSaver, although all of those in KiwiSaver are worse off no matter what their income is. All those who are on lower incomes, even if they are not in KiwiSaver, are worse off under Part 1 of this legislation. It is disgraceful. National is saying that Labour did not do enough for low-income people who did not have children. Yet this bill ignores the lowest-income group without children and does not give them any help. The National Government is set to increase New Zealand\u2019s debt in a way that is unnecessary by giving greater tax cuts to those who are already well off, nothing to those who are worst off, and not changing the position of those families with children who have rising costs to meet and increasing debt. We will see increasing unemployment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EAt the same time the Government is gutting the research and development effort that we need to fund our growing economy. Research and development expenditure in New Zealand is quite good at the Government level and it is poor at a private sector level. The research and development tax credit, which this part of the bill abolishes through the schedule, matches New Zealand\u2019s position to Australia and, indeed, in some ways betters it. But this bill tears out that research and development tax credit in order to fund tax cuts for those who need those tax cuts less than the lowest-income people, who do not get anything under this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThe other anomaly here is that we have had 3 years, preceded by 3 years, and preceded by 3 years before that, of the National Government saying that the threshold at which the highest marginal tax rate cut in was too low. It complained that the $69,000-income level at which the highest tax rate cut in was too low a threshold. The Labour Party, in its tax package, increased the threshold for the highest marginal tax rate to cut in at $80,000. What does this bill do? It does exactly the opposite of what the National Party said should happen. It actually drags back the threshold so that the highest tax rate cuts in at $70,000. That is the exact opposite of what National said for 9 long years in Opposition should be done. Nine years in planning what National should do with tax and it dishes up this irrational piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022 data-id=\u0022800af2892b7b4b31968e65613e8d1854\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022800af2892b7b4b31968e65613e8d1854\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022 data-id=\u002270f218b8029640bb85fa8cea45d61601\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270f218b8029640bb85fa8cea45d61601\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E The M\u0101ori Party members must be hanging their heads in shame on this bill right now. They must be shaking their heads, because I am absolutely sure that when they walked into their mana-enhancing relationship they did not realise they were delivering hardship to vulnerable families\u2014or maybe they did realise that. At no point during the election campaign, when they were championing the rights of vulnerable people, of M\u0101ori families, of young people, of poor people, and of people without work, did they think that they would be supporting a measure like this, which delivers tax cuts to those who really do not need them, at the expense of the poor, the vulnerable, and the children in many of our communities. They must be hanging their heads down in shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EWe know that 74 percent of the people in Te Ururoa Flavell\u2019s electorate of Waiariki earn less than $40,000. Yes, 74 percent of families in Waiariki earn less than $40,000. So when we look at who will really benefit from this measure we see that not many families in Waiariki will benefit. Clayton Cosgrove raised the point that people earning around $23,999 will get absolutely nothing. The M\u0101ori Party members must be hanging their heads in shame. They must be thinking again about the implications of a mana-enhancing relationship that puts at the centre-front of the stage a measure benefiting those who do not need it, at the expense of the vulnerable, the poor, children, and families in many communities around Aotearoa New Zealand. Let us see that one being explained to the M\u0101ori electorates. It is no wonder that the people in those electorates voted to have the Labour Government continue its policies; they knew that at least we do what we say we are going to do. We do not say one thing so that people will support us, then deliver something totally different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EAs I said, that mana-enhancing relationship had better be explained very carefully to the 74 percent of M\u0101ori in Waiariki who earn less than $40,000, because they will be very concerned about what they are hearing today in this Chamber. They will be very concerned that the things they thought they were voting for in supporting members of the M\u0101ori Party are not being delivered. They have not been told about it. We are putting this legislation through in urgency. We are addressing the very issues that people really want to hear about, in urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EPeople have to ask themselves why, at a time of economic hardship, when there is a financial crisis, when many families just before Christmas are wondering how they are going to pull it all together over the next 2 years, the Government is doing that. What is the National Government\u2014supported by ACT and the M\u0101ori Party\u2014doing? It is delivering tax cuts at the expense of poor, vulnerable families in our community, and it needs to be accountable for that. That level of accountability has to ensure that people are not duped by the types of changes that will be bulldozed through the House over the next few days. People need to know about them. I can see Paul Hutchison looking at me quite carefully; the people of Tuakau, in his electorate, need to know the cost of this tax cut to those families in Tuakau, whom Mr Hutchison knows I represent, who will be negatively affected. They will not see a dime. They will not see any benefits from this policy. Mr Hutchison knows that and I know that. When we are at our next community meeting, I look forward to his explaining this policy to many members of my constituency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003ELet us recap. At a time when the most vulnerable in our society need more support, not less, we have tax cuts that are not delivering to them, at all. People should be very concerned. Annette King, the previous Minister of Justice, raised very good points about the implications in terms of lifting about 220,000 children out of poverty. How will this measure benefit those families? There is no explanation from the other side of the Chamber. The M\u0101ori Party must be very, very concerned at this time. Those members should be hanging their heads in shame. As I said, 74 percent of the people in the Waiariki electorate earn less than $40,000, very few of whom will see any benefit from this measure today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022 data-id=\u00228222131d327349ba9f36cf03f65d7704\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228222131d327349ba9f36cf03f65d7704\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbb514a72d97475fb50f35a7806e2f43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbb514a72d97475fb50f35a7806e2f43\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Ruth Dyson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u002292ed21ee9c014a79b603a16dff05e7cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292ed21ee9c014a79b603a16dff05e7cc\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We have had 19 speeches on this part of the bill today. That is a significant number of speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u00229b99abad1dbb420781027ca323eab71d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b99abad1dbb420781027ca323eab71d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am the sole arbiter of the time allowed for the debate. I call the Hon Ruth Dyson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022 data-id=\u002217d6f6a3e69243b4bc01cdaa24cbb184\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217d6f6a3e69243b4bc01cdaa24cbb184\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to give my first contribution in this part of the debate. I am very keen to ask the Minister of Finance some questions, and I am even keener for him to answer them. That is because I have been watching his National colleagues respond to our contribution on this Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, and it is very clear to me that National Party members, and in particular Chris Tremain and John Hayes, do not understand what is in the bill. Either they have not read it or had it explained to them, or the printed version is different from the draft they were given. We know that the taxation policy of the National Party was released in October. That was not very long ago. I would have thought that before a bill came before this Committee, the members of the party that is supporting it would have it explained to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I ask the Minister whether he has explained the bill to his colleagues. Do they know what is in it? Are they prepared to put their names to it, fully aware that they are increasing taxes for the lowest-paid and most vulnerable people in our community? [Interruption] The constituents of the Wairarapa should know that their member of Parliament, John Hayes, has confirmed that yes, he is prepared to put his name to a bill that increases the marginal tax rate for the lowest-income earners in our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EI ask Mr English, as the Minister, to respond to this next question. Under existing law, what is the 2011 marginal tax rate for a person who is earning between $14,000 and $20,000 a year? Mr English does not know the answer to that, but the Hon Dr Michael Cullen has indicated he does, so if he interjects\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2cab70e59c4ca7a6d20f1458a7ddd7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: 12.5 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c737a120f343eda041f2ae618c8b5c\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is 12.5 percent. That is the answer to that question. That is currently the 2011 marginal tax rate in the existing law. Under the legislation that we are now debating in urgency, which is a matter of critical importance because it increases the tax rate for the lowest-income earners in our country, what will be the marginal tax rate for those same people? What\u2014and it will be in force immediately upon the implementation of this legislation\u2014is it proposed to be? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EOne would think that the proposed rate might be lower than 12.5 percent, because those people are the lowest-income earners in New Zealand. Well, the answer is 21 percent. The current law is for the 2011 marginal tax rate to be 12.5 percent, and the proposal is to put it up to 21 percent. I ask Mr Hayes, which is higher: 12.5 or 21? The answer is that Bill English is proposing to this Parliament that the marginal tax rate for the lowest-income earners in New Zealand be increased from 12.5 percent to 21 percent, and all the National Party backbench members should know that before they put their names to this legislation. ACT probably thinks that that rate is getting close to being about right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party should know that its most vulnerable constituents, the people who make the most effort to work fewer hours than the full-time cut-in for the amazing new independent earner tax credit, are going to be penalised so that the chief executive of Telecom and the Prime Minister of New Zealand can get a lofty great tax cut. What is fair about that? What is progressive about that? How does that help any single individual or family, let alone the New Zealand economy? The answer is that it does not. It takes us back to the division, the poverty, and the disempowerment that we saw Bill English preside over as chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee during the bad old days, with Ruth Richardson as Minister of Finance. During the election campaign people up and down the country said that National had said it would not go back to those days, and it would not penalise the most vulnerable people in New Zealand. Less than 24 hours into the start of this Parliament, we see promise after promise being broken by the incoming National Government. The most vulnerable people in our country are paying for that, and we will make sure that they know exactly what the National members are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecbe48f2eb7c415ca9110c51b1610024\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecbe48f2eb7c415ca9110c51b1610024\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022 data-id=\u002219c51143e41c4348830569235f13a7b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219c51143e41c4348830569235f13a7b1\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for recognising the importance of debating this horrible Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. I think that this bill should be renamed the \u201CPersonal Interest Tax Cut Bill\u201D. It is for the personal interest of the National Party, and its wealthy supporters who will benefit the most from this bill. It is the redistribution of wealth from the poor, the working families, and the modest-income earners in New Zealand to the wealthy. It is from a party that campaigned on a brighter future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b43090d8abd94ee5ab20ee7b336c8716\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f9d84670e7847fdbad981af20b4cbeb\u0022\u003EBills\u2014Availability in Urgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022138b50dbd9014715aeca3d544593c936\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022138b50dbd9014715aeca3d544593c936\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Before we resume, can I raise again the issue of the absence from the Table of the House of those bills for which urgency has been taken. There is now some public concern as well as concern from members of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002297d838e17e8b41f98a6313a1ce74df60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297d838e17e8b41f98a6313a1ce74df60\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I think that is a legitimate concern, and I will make every effort to ensure that those bills are available as the afternoon progresses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c1e575337fd43b2812ca997fb727b72\u0022\u003ETaxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224bc4441831d041fd88807bba609cd65d\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000433\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cc156649295423db7b1edc0cb735d20\u0022\u003EPart 1  Personal tax cuts (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022 data-id=\u0022eff7377d8d2b490f9a1ff57c4fa24590\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eff7377d8d2b490f9a1ff57c4fa24590\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As I was saying before the lunch break, the personal tax cut part of this bill is actually a redistribution of wealth; a redistribution from working New Zealand families, from modest-income earners, and from beneficiaries to the wealthiest, who are the biggest beneficiaries of this bill. Every worker earning under $44,000, and particularly those who have families, will be worse off, yet those are the people who need tax cuts the most. Over 2 million New Zealanders\u201465 percent of New Zealanders\u2014will not benefit, and some will be disadvantaged by this bill. That shows how out of touch the National Government is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003ELet us look at the 800,000 people who have signed up to KiwiSaver. They have committed to saving 4 percent of their incomes, with fair employer contributions\u2014and 4 percent is a fair employer contribution\u2014[Interruption] Yes, this change is on top of the tax cuts. Now the employer contribution will be slashed to 2 percent, and that will have a dramatic impact on those people\u2019s ability to save for their future, on their children whom they have signed up to KiwiSaver, and also on their dream of having a sizable deposit for a new home. National members have said they will maintain Working for Families; after their calling it \u201Ccommunism by stealth\u201D and pouring vitriol over us for introducing that policy, they are going to maintain it. But, indeed, working families are going to be much worse off under National\u2019s tax policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EI think many, many Kiwis have been conned. They are expecting a sizable tax break. When Kiwi battlers get their first pay cheque in April they will realise that, oh my goodness, the future is not very bright for them, and they will wonder what they are going to do. They are on a low income, and they have not had a tax cut. Their income has been cut\u2014not their taxes. They may think that State housing can help them get ahead, but guess what? Building new State housing has ceased under the National Government, as well. They may think about compensating for the cut in their income that, effectively, the tax increases have given them. They may try to get a better-paid job, so that they can break even and be where they were before. If they get a new job, they may get an extra 50c an hour, but guess what? They will have no security of tenure in that job. Under National\u2019s policy, in the future they can be sacked any time within 3 months after being hired. That will be a big risk for them to take, if they want to better their income, to get ahead, and to get back to where they were before. Kiwis have been conned. They believed that there was going to be a brighter future. I say that if this is a brighter future, I would hate to see a gloomy future for Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EAnother implication of the tax cuts is that we will have less money in the tax take. There will be a big drain of money from the tax take, because of the big tax cuts for those on high incomes. People such as members of this House will benefit tremendously, at the cost of low and modest income earners and Kiwi families. The implications of the tax cuts will affect us all. They will affect health spending. They will affect education. They will probably affect early childhood education, tertiary education, and apprenticeships\u2014all the trade training that started under this Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022 data-id=\u00226c6f8245416a4997bd9b6eec8af9f328\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c6f8245416a4997bd9b6eec8af9f328\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220b6f453d550e4cae90a612610df17f5a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228b5ee0c829d84ed6a0612af3102ba123\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221fa35d6567da4d51b93d1c394182bed4\u0022\u003EPart 2  Research and development tax credits repeal\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u0022b88cab2b7f884e17992b1feed899f1b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b88cab2b7f884e17992b1feed899f1b6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Now we come to the heart of this bill. How is it funded? The goodies that are being handed out, apparently willy-nilly, have got to come from somewhere. They come from two substantial sources. The first is $3.5 billion from KiwiSaver, which we will be talking about in the debate on a subsequent part. The second is the cancellation of the 115 percent research and development tax credit. Through that measure, $1.5 billion will be saved. We believe that the Government will come to regret the day that it moved this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EIt is very interesting to begin with the analysis set out in the explanatory note of the bill. It recognises that there are significant externalities associated with research and development. The company undertaking the research and development can never capture all of the benefits. Innovation benefits the whole of society, the whole of our economy. It lifts the game, it improves productivity, and it drives us all forward. The data we have shows that companies that invest intensively in research and development tend, on average, to employ more people, to grow more quickly, to register more patents, to have higher productivity, and to export more products and services. Why would the Government not want to encourage such companies? Moreover, how could it begin its year with the commitment that it will do everything it can to focus on productivity and growth, then cancel one of the better growth tools in the innovation tool box\u2014the research and development tax credit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe second issue we have is one of trans-Tasman equivalence or business diversion. It is accepted that our colleagues in Australia give their Government a much more proactive role in boosting research and development, both directly\u2014historically\u2014through the magnitude of its subsidies to the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation and many other organisations, and indirectly through significant subsidies and tax concessions for innovative firms. One of the principal reasons why New Zealand\u2019s research and development tax credit was brought in in the first place was to ensure equivalence between New Zealand\u2019s innovative firms and those of their colleagues across the Tasman\u2014to make sure that the Government\u2019s footprint was not accentuating any trend towards trans-Tasman business migration. That theme was picked up by the current Government\u2014then Opposition\u2014during the election campaign. The bogey of New Zealanders moving across the Tasman was repeated at every opportunity, like a mantra. So what has happened? On the first business day of the House, the National Government attempts to repeal the research and development tax credit, which has been one of the sources of guaranteed trans-Tasman equivalence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe reaction has been completely predictable. Selwyn Pellet, the chief executive of one of the Deloitte/Unlimited Fast50 fastest-growing companies\u2014Imarda\u2014said: \u201CWe are right this minute deciding where we do R\u0026amp;D whether it\u2019s New Zealand or Australia and the removal of the tax credit here negatively incentivises the decision to bring it back to New Zealand.\u201D The Manufacturers and Exporters Association has been highly critical of this bill. It has been highly critical of the removal of the research and development tax credit\u2014which was, to be fair, signalled before the election. It has been highly critical of the environment that New Zealand manufacturers, exporters, and innovators have to cope with. This move makes it worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the ledger of what is being done and what is being undone, we have to ask why. On the one hand we have the removal of something we know is generating sound returns; on the other hand it is going in order to fund a consumption tax cut that is both highly inequitable and badly designed. It is so badly designed that the explanatory note of the bill states that neither the proper consultation nor the regulatory impact assessment has been completed, and the impacts have not been quantified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESome of the key issues, as we debated in the debate on Part 1\u2014[Interruption]\u20149 years to do it\u2014are, first, that this is a long-term fix for a short-term problem. It is a structural tax change to address a recession trend. Second, we are putting in place a consumption tax cut\u2014funded largely by borrowing and these productivity tools\u2014whereas what we need is something that will lift productivity itself. In that respect, this cut is in extremely stark relief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI think the reaction of general commentators is instructive at this point. John Armstrong from the New Zealand Herald said the winners from this package, taken on balance, are easy to identify: working singles and couples without children. The comparative losers are families or those on below the average wage. Jenny McManus from the Independent said: \u201CVoters awaiting National\u2019s grand plan for managing the effects of the global financial crisis will be disappointed at the tax and economic package \u2026\u201D. Jo Doolan from Ernst and Young said that she is \u201Cgutted\u201D at the package: \u201CThe whole thing is hurried and ill-conceived. \u2026 We need to develop a savings culture and this sort of thing doesn\u2019t help.\u201D Gordon Campbell said: \u201CPutting tax cuts ahead of science and research neatly underlines the lack of vision, or sensible strategy for growth in the National package\u2014\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI know from walking around the press gallery that journalists\u2014and, no doubt, soon the public\u2014know what is going on. They know that, despite the rhetoric of the election campaign, on this first business week of the House certain things are being done that deliver certain benefits to constituencies that have it \u201Cowing to them\u201D. Surprisingly enough, it is not our innovative exporting businesses that are getting the nod here; it is the financial sector and top-income earners who will be the general beneficiaries of the package. It is our poorest Kiwis, our struggling families, and, oddly, our innovative businesses that will pay for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ELeaving aside the equity arguments that we discussed in the debate on Part 1, the lack of logic between the negative productivity impacts of this move and Government members\u2019 stated aim\u2014even if we take them at their word\u2014is extraordinary and compelling. Mr English, in speaking to Part 1, said: \u201CWell, we poked and prodded at your plan. We campaigned on ours. Our having been elected, there is no need for our plan to be scrutinised.\u201D So there is no need for it to be scrutinised, no need for the select committee process, and no need for bills to be tabled? The bills to be debated in the rest of the week are still not on the Table. That one has gone through an election campaign is justification, apparently, for setting aside the normal process of Parliament. Of course, we have seen the lie to the proposition that \u201CNo one is worse off, because certain changes have not happened yet.\u201D This bill undermines measures that have already been passed into law, and therefore the Opposition is fully justified in showing that people are worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EIn summing up, taken as a whole, the retrenchment of this research and development tax credit will be bad for our best businesses, and bad for New Zealand. It will be bad because it is a poor source of funding for a misguided bill. But even if one takes the Government at its word and swore for a moment that these tax changes are necessary, funding them by removing the research and development tax incentive does not serve even this Government\u2019s stated ambition of lifting productivity and growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022 data-id=\u00222523b5c8bdf043d3a53fab41eed38aa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222523b5c8bdf043d3a53fab41eed38aa7\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on Part 2, \u201CResearch and development tax credits repeal\u201D. This is a very sobering part and it has been undertaken with great thought over a period of time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022145c23c24c08420cb73b5d709e5ddf10\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Minutes!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264ede1f15fbc4228a4ea797a33469e3e\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: That is quite wrong. This move was indicated quite clearly in National\u2019s pre-election policy, and the great concern was about the quality of the investment. If we look around the world, we see one of the points made in Australia\u2019s innovation policy of 2002 is that unless the basic business environment is optimal, it is very hard for research and development and innovation to thrive. This is underlined in the foreword to the policy where the point is made that it is very important to have a low, broad-based, simple tax system, that it is important to have a flexible labour market, and that it is important to have an optimal regulatory regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EAll these things will be carried out by the National Government, and the direct opposite happened, unfortunately, under the Labour Government. Nevertheless, there was a question, at one stage of events, of whether 10 percent of this tax credit would remain. However, due to the extraordinary circumstances\u2014the legacy of the Labour Government\u2014that were established in the pre-election fiscal update whereby the seriousness of the international crisis was beginning, at last, to be felt, and certainly was ignored very largely by the Labour Government, the realisation was that it was inappropriate to continue with this tax credit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EIt is important to remind the Committee that in the select committee, prior to this tax credit coming into being, it was opposed by the major accountancy firms, it was opposed by Treasury, and it was opposed by Business New Zealand. However, once it did come in, the major accountancy firms set up a travelling roadshow, around the country, to give people an opportunity to use the tax credit. The great danger was that it would not be a quality investment, research that was going to be carried out anyway would be carried out, there would be new business activities that were inappropriate to research and development, and, on balance, it was felt that, in these dire economic times\u2014times left as a legacy of the poor management of the Labour Government\u2014it was appropriate to repeal the tax credits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EI for one am absolutely committed to championing the evolution of research and development in New Zealand into the future. But we want to ensure that the spend is a quality spend, and I am quite sure that over time the National Government will achieve exactly that. I remind the Committee that in the Hon Bill English\u2019s media release of 9 December he stated: \u201CWe firmly believe in the importance of research and development to keep New Zealand internationally competitive, but the tax credits aren\u2019t the most effective way to ensure that. We will work with business to better target government expenditure on innovation.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EI am sure that Mr Hodgson must feel very disappointed, given the fact that he worked on this matter for about 9 years. I think it was back in 1988\u2014or maybe 1998\u2014when he proposed that such a thing should happen. Once again it took 9 long years and more. It was almost equivalent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6b2a4c1ba9747a58900b38c398bb922\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6b2a4c1ba9747a58900b38c398bb922\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E The really scary thing about that speech is that the member said that it had taken a long time and a lot of thought to come up with this policy. I would have been much more comforted if Government members told me they gave it no thought and had no time to spend on it. The fact that they spent a lot of time and thought on it and came up with a dog of a policy like this is almost beyond belief. But the incredible thing is that we are told that we cannot afford to have research and development tax credits at a critical time for the New Zealand\u2014let alone the world\u2014economy, but we can have, and we can afford, in the face of this enormous financial crisis around the world, personal tax cuts that deliver 132 times more for the most affluent New Zealanders compared with the poorest. We can afford that, but because of the world crisis we cannot afford to have research and development in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThen we are told that we really want a quality spend. Well there is one thing that is slightly worse than that and that is no spend at all, which is what this bill proposes. Part 2 is about destroying research and development capability in New Zealand. This part is an example of a Government that has put class warfare ahead of the need to grow our economy. We heard a lot about growing the economy yesterday\u2014going for growth! The Government is going for growth one day, but the next day it is cancelling all of the research and development credits proposed in previous legislation. On day one it is going for growth; on day two it is cancelling the possibility of growth by having no research and development credits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThe most incredible thing of all is that it is not about punishing all businesses in New Zealand, it is about punishing the most innovative and creative businesses in New Zealand\u2014the businesses we depend on for our economic growth and development. Those are the very businesses the Government is targeting with this bill. It will target those companies in a way that is almost beyond belief in that, at the same time, someone who is earning, say, $750,000 a year will be 132 times better off than someone who earns $25,000 a year. So even if the Government is going to target the most innovative businesses in the community, one would think it would help those who are the poorest, but, no, it is doing the reverse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThe National Government is clearly opposed to innovation. It can say what it likes, but it is opposed to it. The Government is opposed to business success, because the very businesses we want to succeed are the ones this bill punishes. The National Government is opposed to the agricultural backbone of our economy. I never thought I would have all the evidence to say that in this Chamber, but this bill is clear evidence of it. The bill is what it looks like when we have a Government run by sneering city financiers instead of people who understand the real productive economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252be37c459b4413a88017aa6d8589d96\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244624305fc4f4541abfd9f50f235be69\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I will prove it to the member then. Can Government members answer three questions? How many times in the Speech from the Throne was the word \u201Cagriculture\u201D used? None. There was not one mention of it in the Speech from the Throne. Where was the Minister of Agriculture in having any input into that? How many times in the Speech from the Throne was the word \u201Cexports\u201D, on which the First World standard of living of this country depends, mentioned?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242020cfc792d4fafaddf3921cfff4724\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227935c771abcb40e6a4fb88015c28f914\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: None. There was not one mention of exports. How many times were the words \u201Cscientific research\u201D mentioned in the Speech from the Throne? Scientific research is what our First World standard of living will depend on for the future in terms of the quality of the processed goods we produce and export to the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222397ccc0f080471786e77d95c2b2a1c3\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Twice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202033a70a19546d49bca02664adf718c\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210c127ef32b74b309d4eb7d5d828b322\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Once?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f12a3bfe95104d86b87d0b19ed10b169\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, none. In the Speech from the Throne there was no mention of scientific research, which will set up this ambitious, visionary Government for New Zealand. There was no mention of the most important backbone of the economy of New Zealand\u2014our agricultural production\u2014which members opposite suggest they represent. There was not a mention. I wonder what I will hear from Federated Farmers tomorrow. I got a framed certificate for putting agriculture at the top. Government members are not even putting it at the bottom. It does not get any mention whatsoever. Despite all the cant we had from Dr Hutchison, scientific research could not even get a mention in the Speech from the Throne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022 data-id=\u0022acefcc17c6214b788a8ee037e495f9d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acefcc17c6214b788a8ee037e495f9d9\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I will totally ignore the previous speech, as will most of New Zealand probably, because it was not particularly relevant. [Interruption] That has woken the Opposition members up. I am sure those members had a very good lunch. Part 2, \u201CResearch and development tax credits repeal\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ac48dfa4ff54b75a9bd9bcfc451a3cc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Tukituki\u2014farming, horticulture, viticulture?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210d0768eb5844798a76df9b0308f565b\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: If members opposite want to have a bit of a go, I can tell them that there is an interesting provision in clause 20(2) that makes a change to the Income Tax Act 2007, which came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee. The current Opposition spokesman on finance may have further advice on that, because clause 20(2) states: \u201CThe definition of district health board is repealed.\u201D He may want to speak on various other ways of doing that later on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213fba690c1544c4583e85193d8d3d329\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I think you need to focus on finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264b9f243b77944839f612a92d7c8f758\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I will focus on finance, because this is a financial bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EWhen the 2007 bill came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee there were many, many submissions on the research and development tax credits. From memory, most of the submissions were along the lines that the tax credits would create tax arbitrage and accounting arbitrage. Of course, everyone argued that he or she should be included and that perhaps someone else should not be included. In fact, I remember that an organisation that is partially funded by the Crown came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee and told us the truth. It told us what was really going on. Then I subsequently found out that the organisation had a very interesting phone call from a Minister\u2019s office not long after that, telling it that it should never appear before a committee like that without the Minister knowing, and that he did not like what it had said. But, anyway, I digress a wee bit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022760c10450e64448abcbc50953d4a3435\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: A wee bit? How about coming back to the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d8f3153470943f0b48b312447cceec1\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: I mentioned the words \u201Caccounting arbitrage\u201D before, and I will explain that term to the member later. What is going on here is that the higher the tax burden is and the more imposing the tax structure is on an economy, the greater the incentive is to find ways around it, through it, to plead for a credit, and to take something from someone else and get a credit for oneself. That is what happens, and it is what is going on with regard to the research and development tax credit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003ESome members have argued that the tax credit has only just started, so how can we say all these things? Very simply, as my colleague Mr Hutchison noted earlier, there were roadshows going around the place. Companies were going to them and they were being told: \u201CShow us your expenditure sheet, show us your models, and we will try to make them fit the new definition of research and development in order to get you a tax credit. We will try to do that. Of course, we cannot do it straight away, but we will go through your books and try to find what we can to get you some benefit out of this.\u201D So the roadshows were being entrepreneurial if one likes, but it was to the detriment of the New Zealand economy because it did not add to the quantum of research and development in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EAbout 3 months before the election I had a very interesting meeting with a company that had started to set up some research and development under the model in the existing legislation. It was looking to invest the money and to take some benefits from it with its 15 percent. That was OK, but then the company told me about the problem. The problem was that it could neither attract to New Zealand nor keep the people here to do the research and development, because of New Zealand\u2019s high personal tax structure. It was, quite simply, because of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThe finance spokesperson on the other side of the Chamber, David Cunliffe, alluded at the start of this debate to the fact that these research and development tax credits have been\u2014or at least will be\u2014repealed in order to help fund the personal tax cuts that we announced long before the election, and that were resoundingly endorsed by New Zealand. The point is that we can have all the credits we like, but if we do not have the people who are attracted to New Zealand stay here, who can be rewarded for the risk they take in being here and being involved in research and development in New Zealand, it actually does not matter. Unless we have those people here adding to our economy, we can have all the research and development tax credits we like, and it will not matter. Some of the stuff I saw going on was stuff that was being structured in New Zealand to utilise Australian people to whip over here and do the research and development, so that local companies could enjoy the research and development tax credit, and of course the individuals concerned were located in a lower tax environment\u2014that is, in Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThe research and development tax credit part of the bill\u2014the clauses here\u2014is about priority, because there are some hard choices to be made. Once the books were opened\u2014or at least partially opened\u2014in the pre-election fiscal update, and when they continued to be opened a bit more recently with all the other shenanigans going on, it actually made it even more pertinent that we repeal these credits right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u00224c5e081c62834d7a8e5c0727c0a2a115\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c5e081c62834d7a8e5c0727c0a2a115\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, we just learnt from Mr Foss in that extraordinary speech that he does not want highly qualified, skilled, educated people coming from other countries to work in New Zealand because of the research and development tax credit to help grow our economy, to grow our tax base, and to pay for all the things that New Zealanders want paid for. The research and development tax credit has, apparently, been keeping people away from New Zealand and if we get rid of it\u2014dumbing down our economy\u2014as this legislation does, that would be good for New Zealand. Well, that kind of falls in line with the Speech from the Throne from the Prime Minister that we heard yesterday. We can gather from that that the only turbocharging we will get is a turbocharging of empty slogans and empty rhetoric. For all their talk about innovation, for all their talk about turbocharging everything, nothing in this bill does that\u2014nothing. In fact, it does the complete opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI wish the Minister for Research, Science and Technology were in the Chamber so that he could speak to this issue. We asked him questions earlier because we wanted to confirm that the third of this money that is being saved from cutting this research and development tax credit will still go to Crown research institutes and universities to fund research; he refused to answer earlier on. He refused to answer, but I think that the scientific community deserves to know whether that money will still go there. I am sure if Dr Paul Hutchison were in Cabinet he would have an answer like that, because that is the kind of man he is. I am very sad that he did not get that portfolio; he worked very hard in it when he was in Opposition, but, no, it was whisked away from him and given to someone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203b480fc7bd74022aa67151028a0111a\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s his name?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8b467f4e444477bb366598a51ae4bf7\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I cannot remember. He has a lovely new haircut, though. I say to Mr Foss that it is appalling that he stands up in this Chamber and says that he will not respond to the speech made by the Hon Jim Anderton. He deliberately said he would ignore his speech. Why? That is because he has no answers to that speech. He has no answers to answer why, when we are going into a global crisis and when liquidity in the capital venture market will become more restricted, we will be penalising and raising taxes on our most innovative companies. These are the companies that we should be putting front and centre, and the companies that we should be saying are the ones that will help lift us out of this global recession, and that on average export more, pay more highly, and grow our economy more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWhat is the National Party\u2019s answer to that? The National-ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government will raise the taxes paid by those companies by getting rid of a research and development tax credit, which is supported\u2014for all that Mr Foss may say\u2014by all their friends. We know that when National announced their tax policy people were flying all over the country to meet with Mr English to say: \u201CDon\u2019t do this. This is a huge mistake.\u201D It is a mistake for the economy, it is a mistake for our exporters, it is a mistake for our manufacturers, and it will be a mistake for New Zealand when it comes to growth and coming through this recession in a positive way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWhat Dr Hutchison says is that they just rort it\u2014scientists just rort it. This is a member who went around the country campaigning on how we need to trust scientists, we need to let them do their own thing, and that there is far too much management of what they do. Then in the Chamber today he stands here and says that the scientists just rort it\u2014it is not new stuff, they just write down stuff they are already doing as new stuff, so they are just rorting it. He also, by the way, wants to get rid of the $700 million Fast Forward Fund and direct the way that that goes as well, and direct that solely to try to get out of the mess National has got itself into on the emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI refer to Jacqueline Rowarth, who is the Massey University director of agriculture. She said that she is incredibly concerned about the ramification of the removal of the research and development tax credit, and she says: \u201CAustralia removed its R and D tax credit because it thought people were fiddling the books.\u201D\u2014as Dr Hutchison thinks\u2014\u201CThen it reinstated it within a year because the downturn was worse than that fiddling.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003ESo when Dr Hutchison gets up and talks about how this is the way the world is going, he is actually not telling New Zealanders the truth. The fact is that the Labour Government brought in this tax credit to make New Zealand internationally competitive. Members on this side of the Chamber understood that these kinds of policies will assist our small and innovative businesses, our businesses that are going to lift our economy, and our businesses that do a significant amount of exporting. Even Business New Zealand chief executive Phil O\u2019Reilly, who has been quoted by Dr Hutchison as saying he was opposed to it, has said that we need to give this research and development tax credit time. John Key said that no one has taken it up yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThen we heard from the Manufacturers and Exporters Association\u2019s Mr Walley, who said that that was a daft statement, as the tax year has not even finished yet. How would John Key know unless he had the power of clairvoyance\u2014and I am not saying that he does not claim to have the power of clairvoyance\u2014how many people will take it up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d71466a5e090496b814ef82ae40b363c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d71466a5e090496b814ef82ae40b363c\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E When we talk about the research and development tax credit it is important to remember some of the history of what has happened in the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e89789cc55494b02a8739aac8d6391fb\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: You come from the Waikato, remember?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224109ba56cf7643b3808315225b51d111\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, let us talk about the Waikato and what the Labour Party has been doing there. It is pretty rich for these guys to come into this Chamber and talk about research and development tax credits, when AgResearch was laying off staff before the election and they did not do a thing. Where did we see the Labour Party in the election campaign? In Hamilton East we campaigned against the Labour Party. Labour members would come along to campaign meetings and say \u201CLook at our research and development policy.\u201D All I had to ask them was why they were laying off people at AgResearch. They would not come to the support of scientists. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe reality is that scientists have never got anything out of the Labour Party, and they never will. Scientists\u2019 incomes are about 15 percent lower than any other profession, and the Labour Party did not come and help them, did it? It had 9 years of talking about how it loves science, how it loves research and development, how that is the future of New Zealand, and how we will have a knowledge wave and a global economy. What did it do? It gave up on the knowledge wave and it did not give those increases in wages. In fact, it put AgResearch in a position where it had to lay off staff to meet its budget. That is what the Labour Party does: it says one thing and then it does another. Reality speaks, and the reality is that the National Party has come to the aid of scientists, helped out, and made sure that we do not have the degree of job losses that the Labour Party started out with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThere has been a great change in mood, because people realise that reality is more important than words. Labour members are bringing out words today\u2014look, they have all gone silent now! They know they are in trouble. They know that they cannot go out there and say what they have been saying, because it is not true. They know that they were the ones screwing the research and development budgets by making sure it was hard for AgResearch to employ people, and that is the reality of the situation. How dare the Labour Party come in here today and try to say how it is the research and development party and how it is there for agricultural research! Labour should have put its money in front of it when it was in Government; it did not, so it should not come in here and try to do it now. It had its chance and it blew it\u2014it will not get another chance to do it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe reality is that the biggest thing we can do for the research and development sector is to give it a growing economy. That is what it needs. If there is growth in the economy, businesses will invest in the future. That is the reality. These tax cuts are the first step in providing that growth economy. This is what the National Party is about. We have a programme for growth, and these tax cuts are the first step. If we really want to look at what will be best for research and development in the future, we see that it is the growing economy that the National Party will produce. We will invest in this country\u2019s infrastructure, and we will give people money in their hands so that they can spend it in this economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EWe will not invest all our money in the US stock exchange, just as Mr Cullen did, and lose it. We will look after our people in our country, and we will build a stronger country. This is what will happen. The reality is that New Zealand will be stronger, we will have a growing economy, we will have a position where businesses want to invest in research and development, and we will be able to deliver to the agricultural, the research, and the scientific sectors the vision they require. They will actually see a future ahead of themselves, because they will see corporates and enterprises making money that will be able to be invested in research and development. This is not a question about the tax credit as such; this is a question about how we provide the environment for research and development to flourish. To create that environment we need a growing economy, and the National Party is committed to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ELabour members are sitting there now and trying to attack this legislation on the basis of research and development expenditure. Well, that is not the case. The case is that the Labour Party did not come to the aid of research and development, did not come to the aid of AgResearch before the election\u2014you just let them go. You were quite happy to see those people go out of work; you went through an election campaign not actually doing that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226969b95a66314b2e994d9e482d998656\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d7173bb91941e9a29a9fca601177a1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I know what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257ca20f934f04eb288a3d7ea38f68999\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: If you are aware of it, you should be stopping it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff24e7000dc84880801e5471040d1180\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot use the word \u201Cyou\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223397841b014e493fa73203ef22c03ba0\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour Party did not come to the aid of that sector. It did not come to the aid of those people who were going to lose their jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022991f7add28a841729c93f3d7fcaa9790\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022991f7add28a841729c93f3d7fcaa9790\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Parts of this bill are either unfair, dishonest, incompetent, or plain stupid. This is the plain stupid part\u2014the abolition of the research and development tax credit. The member has just been talking about tax cuts. Let me enlighten him: this is a tax increase. This is a tax increase of $330 million a year on business. This part claws back what is getting on for half of the corporate tax rate cut. Why should we be surprised? Which Governments have ever cut corporate taxes in New Zealand? Only ever a Labour Government has, in 1998 and in 2008. Those are the only times in the last 50 years that corporate tax rates have been cut in New Zealand, and both times were by Labour Governments. National has never ever cut those rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ESo when we cut it, this was yet another one of those bitter little things for Mr English, which he had to reverse some way or another, because he was not allowed to let Labour have any credit for anything. So he is clawing it back, but is he clawing it back off everybody? He is clawing it back off the most innovative, productive, and exporting firms in the country. Let me tell Mr Bennett something else. What was he referring to as Agriculture New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab8ef2d70a77428e8399641600fe8e5e\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: AgResearch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6c7b662ab454419b8b5111ca08ef58e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014that is a Crown research institute. AgResearch is a Crown research institute that has been underperforming, actually, for some years. But that is public sector research and development. If the member knew anything, he would know that New Zealand\u2019s underperformance is in private sector research and development. Why? That is because we are about the only country in the world, up until recently, that has not been offering any inducement to private sector research and development. In an ideal world no country would offer incentives for research and development. In an ideal world we would have a level playing field, and decisions would be made by the market, and nothing would happen. But once some countries have research and development incentives, it becomes very hard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EYou see, National is still playing the early 1990s\u2019 trick. It is still Star Trek in reverse for National. Its members still want to go where no man will follow. They still want to go down a route with no research and development tax incentive, and they will be surprised that firms will shift research and development to Australia where there are research and development tax incentives. What have we heard for years from National members? \u201CEverybody who is bright has gone to Australia.\u201D And looking over the other side of the Chamber whenever they said it, I thought maybe it was true, because what was left, from what I could see, was not bright. They said: \u201CWe\u2019ve got to stop people going to Australia.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ESo what do they do? They do something to threaten portability of superannuation, and they remove the research and development tax incentive designed to get research and development in New Zealand and to keep it here, because they want it to go there. And what are they going to make it up with? They are going to put more money into the State\u2019s research and development. When they go up on the platform and slaver in front of Business New Zealand, the Chambers of Commerce, and the Business Roundtable, dripping sincerity, say, in the way only Tony Ryall and others can: \u201CIt is the private sector only that creates wealth in New Zealand, so what we will do is take money out of the private sector and put it in the public sector.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThat is what is called Logic 101 for the National Party\u2014just follow the logic: \u201COnly the private sector creates wealth, so let\u2019s take that wealth away and give it to the public sector. And if a public sector identity or entity is not performing particularly well, and not managing to live within budget, we\u2019ll just give them more money. We won\u2019t ask any questions about what they are doing. We won\u2019t say whether other CRIs, such as HortResearch, might be doing better research. We won\u2019t say whether they should work better with the private sector. No, we\u2019ll just give them some more money.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThat is what the Government has done. So that is wise, is it? That will grow the economy? I listened yesterday to the sorts of clich\u00E9s, in a kind of National Film Unit documentary for the 1950s way, that finished off the Speech from the Throne, and I heard about the turbocharging of the New Zealand economy. I now understand it. We are going to have a turbocharged 1953 Morris Oxford, and we will call it the New Zealand economy. I have to tell the Committee that a modern Japanese mini-car can outstrip a turbocharged 1953 Morris Oxford. It is no wonder that the leading agricultural scientist in the National Party was not allowed to be a Cabinet Minister. He was parked on the Speaker\u2019s bench, instead, because in fact he might know too much about some of these areas to be involved in making decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EDo we really want to grow this economy, and how do we do it? We do it in the modern world by developing human capital, by investing in research and development, and by investing in new products. In New Zealand we do that particularly in the primary sector industries, because that is where our comparative advantage lies. So what is the Government doing? It is abolishing what was going to be a $2 billion Fast Forward Fund to invest in agriculture and to invest in the primary sector, and it is giving a lick and a promise that it will increase funding for the Crown research institutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut, of course, Mr English is about to work on a Budget. He is about to work on a Budget that will project cash deficits in excess of $10 billion a year by the end of the forecast period. So do Mr Hutchison and others think they will get this extra money in large amounts for Crown research institutes? That will be a lick and a promise; it will get pushed out and squeezed, and will not look like the Fast Forward Fund. But that fund was there, it was locked in, it was provided for, and it was going to happen. The Labour Government was getting ready to do it. It is a bit like broadband, where people are lined up ready to put their stuff in. They have made the applications, but now they will have to wait 18 months or more for National to work out how actually to operationalise its funding in that area. We will wait ages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe have firms working in research and development, but we are told they are rorting the system. Well, how do we know? Nobody has had a research and development tax incentive approved by the Inland Revenue Department yet. They have yet to apply. Indeed, the only complaints that I have heard of is that it is too hard to get the incentive. It is not too easy to rort it; it is too hard to get it. Indeed, we will find that out after April when people apply, but they knew. Indeed, National members did not put lots of thought into this. It was not a well-developed policy to abolish the research and development tax incentive. National announced its policy months ago. The policy was to cut the incentive to 10 percent\u2014which is at the lower range of international comparability, whereas the 15 percent was at the higher range of international comparability\u2014to save a bit of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThen, of course, those members had the preview, and for some peculiar reason they did not think the preview was going to show a worsening situation compared with the Budget. They knew what was going on in the world. It was pretty obvious to anybody that the world was slowing down faster than we had all thought in April of this year. Then they said: \u201COh, my gosh!\u201D. We promised the average person on the average wage a $50-a-week tax cut. Well, we can pretend that it is not on top of Labour\u2019s package, so that will save us a lot of money. And now we need to squeeze and push. So what goes?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWhat goes is the remaining 10 percent of the research and development tax credit. This is called going for growth\u2014$2 per week, on average, per taxpayer to pay for the research and development tax credit. That, I tell Mr Bennett, will really turbocharge the New Zealand economy. It will be an extra couple of dollars a week of spending power in the average taxpayer\u2019s pocket, but no doubt it will be spent in large part on imported consumer goods. It might provide about the equivalent of one drop of petrol for the South Chinese economy, not for the New Zealand economy. The Government should be investing in the private sector to gear up. The private sector has been woefully inadequate in New Zealand in investing, in almost any way, in future development\u2014such as research and development, human capital, and new plant and machinery. So the Labour Government lowered the corporate tax rate. We increased depreciation rates. We brought in the research and development tax credit. We put forward an integrated Skills Strategy, and improved the investment in that Skills Strategy in the workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThose are the drivers of economic growth, not piddling little tax cuts going into consumption to buy stuff not even noticed\u2014not even a block of cheese, barely a slice of cheese, not even a half of the kind of loaf that Paul Hutchison would buy every day. He would not buy the $1 loaf at the garage; he would buy the $6.99 special loaf down at the Italian bakery. This tax cut would not even buy half of one of those loaves of bread a week, and we are somehow going to turbocharge this economy. Well, we might be slightly heavier, we might be slightly weightier, but we will not have a faster-moving economy as a result of this part of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ENational is reducing savings, and investment in research and development and human capital, and calling that turbocharging. This is National going for growth. I say this is the worst of all possible nightmares for anybody with any aesthetic sense. This is Ruth Richardson without a tracksuit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd39e8df26b349a69cb3e74bc34b1fab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd39e8df26b349a69cb3e74bc34b1fab\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, Dr Cullen is wrong about one thing. I do give him quite a bit of credit\u2014or whatever the terminology was that he used\u2014as easily the most competent member of the previous Labour Government. He did all the hard work, and he has something to show for it, but none of the rest of the members of that Government do, including the previous Prime Minister. I give Dr Cullen full credit for the huge effort he put in while he was the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThat does not mean, of course, that he was right about everything, and it does not mean that when the Government changes there will not be different priorities. That is really what this debate on the research and development tax incentive is about. It is an idea with some merit. The question is whether it has sufficient merit to be put ahead of all the other calls on the Government\u2019s resources, including what was National\u2019s top priority in Opposition, and what remains its top priority now that we are in Government, and that is to reduce personal income tax rates. In the situation that New Zealand is in, with the economic outlook that we face, we have to make choices about priorities. Opposition members think the world is always the way that they experienced it when in Government; they experienced a fiscal tsunami every year of waves of money crashing on to the Government beach, where they lazed around, deciding among themselves how to give it out to someone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb63bbe538b9424393cacf32f309d277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7cf30cee2d4ee7b4e1f38d846b5216\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Like some sort of version of From Here to Eternity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c3894a74d10467a9e07bd122455b33b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. It may well be that any Government in that situation would behave in the same way. I happen to think that Labour is more partial to enjoying giving out other peoples\u2019 money than perhaps other Governments would be. But that was the business of Government. That has now changed. Now we have to make decisions about priorities. In the case of economic growth, we did not believe that this tax incentive would be a sufficient driver of it. The Opposition believes that it would be. All I can say is the Labour Government floundered in the knowledge wave. After 7 or 8 years, and hundreds of millions of initiatives driven off the idea that the economy could be transformed, we ended up with a conversion on the road to Damascus whereby the only member of the Progressive Party suddenly decided that New Zealand was about primary production. Well, that was fantastic. It just happened to contradict all the policy that that Government had tried to implement for the previous 6 or 7 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe reality is that a National-led Government with a good understanding of, and strong representation from, the whole productive sector of the New Zealand economy is focusing on lower tax rates, less regulation, better infrastructure, and higher education standards. Certainly, we could focus on 16 other objectives. Every strategy of the previous Government that I read had about 16 other objectives\u2014all contradictory, none of them achieved, but lots of meetings that gave the impression of action. Well, we will not go down that path.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EWe have discussed the research and development tax incentive with people who are using it, and, actually, we get contradictory stories. One of the strongest advocates owned up in my presence that he had spent $70,000 on the accountant, and it turned out that the research and development tax credit was only $50,000. The deal he had was to give the accountant 40 percent of any recoverable credit, which I gather is the upper end of the going rate. Most accounting firms are pitching themselves at 20 percent to 30 percent. They turn up to a business with their Australian supervisor, go through the books, work out what the tax credit might be\u2014it is turning out to be quite a bit smaller than many companies had expected\u2014then take about one-third of it as their fee. Well, that is innovative, but it is not what we would call innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EIn Australia, it is not 3,000 highly productive companies that get this credit; banks and mining companies make up by far the largest number of claimants of this incentive. In New Zealand, the banks have their own ideas of what they regard as research and development. They now represent themselves as being essentially information technology companies, because they are based on information technology, and any development that they do in that area must count for the research and development tax credit\u2014and how would one say no to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EA research and development tax credit is not a bad idea; it is just that it is not the priority of the newly elected Government. We are focusing on basic things that will affect every organisation, company, and household, such as lower taxes and better infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022 data-id=\u00229e2e8d4f58a74ac6a4222d6a6e843c29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e2e8d4f58a74ac6a4222d6a6e843c29\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I did hear the Minister of Finance say that we have to make choices about priorities. I did hear him say that. In fact, that is what Governments do all the time; they do it all the time. I would like to suggest that the choice that the Government has made to eliminate the tax credit for research and development is simply the wrong choice. I want to adduce a little bit of evidence to that effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EMembers will be aware that New Zealand is a poor performer in the research and development stakes. The normal way of measuring research and development effort is to measure research and development expenditure as a percentage of GDP, and to look at it in the public sector and in the private sector. Compared with countries around the world, in the public sector New Zealand underperforms a little. We are around about three-quarters of the Western World average. It would be good if we could get ourselves up to 100 percent or, indeed, 120 percent of the Western World average, but we are below the Western World average in the public sector. However, in the private sector we are not at 75 percent of the Western World average; we are at 33 percent of the Western World average. New Zealand private sector investment in research and development is amongst the lowest in the world. The good news is that it used to be even lower. In 1999 it was not 33 percent of the Western World average; it was 25 percent of the Western World average. A number of things have contributed to that increase, such as the Venture Investment Fund, Technology for Business Growth, the Pre-seed Accelerator Fund, the law around venture capital, and the establishment of the Incubator system, and on and on it goes. Throughout the past 9 years a lot of private sector effort and a lot of Government effort have gone into improving private sector investment in research and development. It has gone from 25 percent of the Western World average to 33 percent. That is progress, but it ain\u2019t much progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EWhen the Labour Government decided to introduce the tax credit at 15 percent\u2014and it came in on 1 April 2008\u2014the Inland Revenue Department had to determine how much money it would forgo. It had to do the modelling. It knew that it would take a while for private sector entities to get used to the new system. It knew that it would take a while for companies to gear up their research and development. It knew that it would take a while for companies to stop oozing offshore and to start coming onshore with their research and development. It knew that it would take a little while, so it did a 4-year projection, and at the end of 4 years the amount of money forgone\u2014the amount of money going to businesses for innovation\u2014would have been $332 million a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EThe point is that if we do our sums and work out how much research and development would have to come to book in order for $332 million to be forgone, we see that New Zealand\u2019s private sector research and development would rise from 33 percent of the Western World average to almost exactly twice that\u2014to almost exactly 66 percent of the Western World average. That is still below 100 percent of the Western World average, but way better than 33 percent. Of course, we know that it would include some research and development that was under-reported. That is known, that is taken into account, and that is modelled. It is also known, to give the case cited by the Minister of Finance, that the banks might call themselves information technology companies and claim that their software development was somehow eligible for a research and development tax credit. So we put a cap on that. We said that a company could not claim more than $2 million per year for software. That was a black hole that we would not let the Inland Revenue Department fall into. So the tax credit was designed to be both generous in terms of rate and limiting in terms of rorts. It was designed that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EWe had long enough to design it. As the previous Minister of Finance, the Hon Michael Cullen, said, he wished he had done it earlier. But, you see, if the Inland Revenue Department predicts that New Zealand\u2019s reported private sector research and development expenditure will go from one-third of the Western World average to two-thirds of the Western World average over the next 3\u00BD years, then I suggest that if we are to pass this legislation, we have to be prepared to acknowledge the fact that that expenditure will stay at 33 percent over the next 3\u00BD years, that therefore the economic base of New Zealand will stay at a lesser amount than it would otherwise have been, and that therefore the taxable base will be a lesser amount than it would otherwise have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EThis is fiscal nonsense. This is, as Dr Cullen said, the stupid part of the legislation. To have the good Dr Paul Hutchison get up and try to defend it\u2014well, all I can say is that I saw him wringing his hands, and he wrung his hands for the whole 5 minutes that he spoke. I heard Mr Bennett, the member of Parliament from the Waikato\u2014I am sorry; I have forgotten his first name\u2014get up and tell Labour members to put our money where our mouth is when it comes to primary production research and development. My retort, rather obviously, is that we did\u2014$0.7 billion. It was called New Zealand Fast Forward, and this Minister of Finance swiped it. He swiped it. He got rid of private sector involvement, got rid of the fact that there would be a legacy fund, got rid of the fact that there would be certainty about the money, and replaced it with nothing. Labour members think that that will be very, very bad for New Zealand\u2019s economic development future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EThe tragedy is that 3\u00BD years from now this $330 million, if it is divided amongst 4.1 million New Zealanders, will put about $1.60 in the pocket of every man, woman, and child per week\u2014$1.60 a week. That is the price we pay for a dumb economy. Every person in New Zealand will get it, except, of course, the poor people\u2014they will get nothing. The rich people will get, let us say, $3.20 a week in their pockets, and we will have a dumb economy, a slower-growing economy, a less export-oriented economy, and a less innovative economy, and we will have a bunch of firms that will not be able to grow faster, because they do not have a tax credit and therefore cannot fund their own growth as quickly as they otherwise could have done. It is a really dumb policy. It is one that I am really sad about. And when I am not sad about it I am angry about it. I think New Zealand will be a worse place as a result of this decision, I think $1.60 per person per week is a very, very low amount of money, and I do not think the decision that this Government has taken\u2014it says that it has to make choices about priorities\u2014is the right one. I think that if it is going to prioritise an extra $1.60 per person per week for consumption over an innovative future, if that is its priority choice, then clearly it has taken the wrong choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022 data-id=\u00223ef12b189bdb4a639eddb0019d0adc0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ef12b189bdb4a639eddb0019d0adc0f\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman, for the opportunity to speak again on Part 2, \u201CResearch and development tax credits repeal\u201D. I think it is important to reaffirm that central to the Australian innovation policy was getting right the basic business framework, in order to carry out research and development innovation and in order for that country to benefit from it. Australia\u2019s priorities were clearly spelt out as getting taxes down, getting the regulatory regime right, and having a flexible labour market. There is no doubt that this Government\u2019s programme does exactly that, and in terms of the scientific field it will be helped by the improvement of the Resource Management Act and the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EI acknowledge very much the fact that the Hon Pete Hodgson put a lot of effort, thought, and time into research and development over the last 9 years. I think that some worthy programmes were brought in, such as the Incubator phenomenon, the Venture Investment Fund, the Pre-seed Accelerator Fund, and numerous others. However, this question of the quality of the tax credit has certainly played on the minds of many thinkers throughout the world for many years. The Hon Jim Anderton might say that to remain competitive we have to do what the rest of the world has done. But Finland, one of the countries that have demonstrated high economic growth year after year, and prominence in innovation, does not depend on tax credits, at all. In fact, it has targeted funding of research and development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EI emphasise once again the press release that the Hon Bill English put out the other day. It pointed out: \u201CWe firmly believe in the importance of research and development to keep New Zealand internationally competitive, but the tax credits aren\u2019t the most effective way to ensure that. We will work with business to better target government expenditure on innovation.\u201D This is one of the areas that I, for one, will make sure I keep reminding the Minister of Finance about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EBut I also think it is important to point out that it was the Hon Pete Hodgson who said that New Zealand was underfunded in terms of investment in research and development, both in the public sector and, certainly, in the private sector. Well, it is a bit rich for Labour members to talk about this. They had 9 years, and, as a percentage of GDP, investment in the public sector actually went down slightly over the last 9 years. It went down at a time when New Zealand had the greatest opportunity to grow investment in this crucial area. After all, it was Helen Clark who said in the Speech from the Throne in 2005 that research and development innovation was critical to driving New Zealand\u2019s economy, yet the next Budget spent billions of dollars on areas that will only cement in intergenerational welfare dependency, and a mere $19.4 million was put into research and development. Here they were, at the eleventh hour, setting up the Fast Forward Fund, which we will be replacing with exactly the same amount of funding but far, far less bureaucracy. We have committed to the initiatives that are of high quality, and to spending very much the same amount, but we will avoid the duplicative bureaucracy that Jim Anderton managed\u2014inevitably, with his Pavlovian, socialistic reflex\u2014to put into that fund. But we think investment is very, very important, and I accept that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EThe other point, which Moana Mackey made, was regarding the $315 million over 3 years. That $315 million is absolutely committed to go to secure funding for the Crown research institutes, something which has been recommended by the OECD and many others for many years. That was very much the point made by my colleague the good Mr Bennett from Hamilton East, who said that one of the legacies of our pre-eminent Crown research institutes, AgResearch, is the fact that it is having to make 50, 60, or 100 scientists redundant as a result of its poor performance under the watch of the Labour Government. That is a particularly important point. The other 50 percent of that $315 million will go to the Health Research Council, the Performance-based Research Fund, and the Marsden Fund. Clearly, those are funds that are very much in need of support from Government, because they will not get it from anywhere else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EIn terms of private research and development and the effect of the tax credit, there certainly has been a very mixed reaction on behalf of businesses. Many of them have said to me\u2014and I personally am involved in two businesses that carry out research and development\u2014that they are going to carry on with the investment despite the repeal. They will carry on and they will most likely increase their investment, because of the fact that a new National Government will improve the business environment so that many thousands of businesses in New Zealand, particularly innovative businesses, can indeed thrive. We will continue to decrease taxation, we will improve the regulatory regime, and we will make the labour market more flexible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EAs Bill English said, there is no doubt that this is a matter of choice, and in the circumstances where we had dire warnings in the pre-election fiscal update, this was the only wise choice to make. After all, this Labour Government has left us the legacy of 10 years of deficits, and it did not even have the honesty to disclose the huge accident compensation losses. When Dr Cullen says this particular part of the bill is dishonest, unfair, and plain stupid, I would reply to him that he is myopic, in denial, and the man responsible for taking New Zealand two steps further down the ladder of the OECD. There is no doubt that research and development are vital for New Zealand, that they absolutely will play a part in the economic growth of the future, and that National will be committed to high-quality investment in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022 data-id=\u00221511df0973014a7f9bcfa0354ca5f59f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221511df0973014a7f9bcfa0354ca5f59f\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E Unlike Mr Foss, I want to deal with some of the idiocies trumpeted by the last few speakers. If the National Party thinks that private sector investment and public sector investment are important for the future of this economy, I ask why on earth it would throw away the first and most important partnership between the Government and the private sector in our most important economic base\u2014agriculture and horticulture, and the scientific research and development that backs it up\u2014to the tune of $2,000 million, comprising $1,000 million from the Government matched dollar for dollar by the private sector. Here is the challenge: can Dr Hutchison or anyone else, Mr Bennett and all of them included, guarantee to me that the private sector will put up $1,000 million over the next 10 to 15 years without the Fast Forward scheme and without the research and development tax credit? If those members can, let us hear all about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228720b8d0f6124cd2a07bd644e18bc5b8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: They never promised that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0d1d550a48044a68603f4b2128a845c\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Here comes Mr Smith again. Mr Bennett says that science is very important to National. It is so important that in the aspirational and visionary\u2014as National members describe it\u2014Speech from the Throne it was not mentioned once. That is how important science is to National. I think it came as a surprise to Dr Hutchison and a few others over there that it was not mentioned. They could not believe it; they know how stupid that was. The agricultural sector was not mentioned, and exports were not mentioned. I ask how that fits with a Government that is \u201Cgoing for growth\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EMr Bennett says that tax cuts will lead to equal growth in science. I see. Will someone on $750,000 who gets a $264-a-week tax cut invest that money in Crown research institutes, or in research and development to support agriculture? They are more likely to go for a holiday to Bali, actually. That is the truth of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThis is a terrible indictment on a Government that claims that it wants to \u201Cgo for growth\u201D. What does this mediocre, visionless Government propose to do? The first act it takes in this Parliament is to introduce the largest tax increase on business in New Zealand\u2019s history\u2014the largest tax increase on business in New Zealand\u2019s history. Never before has any Government come into this Parliament and massively increased tax on innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d90e792bd66e4807b84ee7c6f5dce458\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not as much as the Alliance wanted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e0c0eef3f8840d9b5ee2d659a3b2996\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Smith would not know anything about it, of course. Never before has any Government come into this Parliament and carefully targeted tax increases at not just any businesses but the most innovative and creative businesses in New Zealand, the ones that we need the most for our economic development. What are the chances that this aspirational and visionary policy and leadership are going to succeed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022378fc314f1af43a39fcb85d9f9b250de\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Very good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777a4b8974844baf86e4d82fa3bf5afb\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Very good, are they? I see. The title of an earlier part of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill was \u201CPersonal tax cuts\u201D. If we are consistent, the title of this part of the bill should be \u201CBusiness tax increases\u201D. That is what the title should be, because that is the reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EBefore the election, a very creative and successful Auckland business leader took out a full page advertisement in the New Zealand Herald. Members may have forgotten it, so I will show it to them. The advertisement said: \u201CI\u2019ve voted as many times for National as for Labour. I\u2019m a founder of five successful companies selling globally to more than 30 countries.\u201D Then he went on: \u201CThe party that should get your vote is the one with the best policies for real economic growth.\u201D\u2014the one \u201Cgoing for growth\u201D. Well, I ask members to guess which party it was. It was not the party now on the Government benches. If people want to know why, they just have to look at this bill. He goes on to say: \u201CBorrowing for tax cuts\u201D\u2014which is what this Government is doing\u2014\u201Cgoing into a global recession is an attempt to drive a consumer spending recovery, and frankly that is placing our kids in debt without addressing the financial crisis in any meaningful way.\u201D I have heard today that we can afford tax cuts for the richest people in New Zealand, but we cannot afford research and development investment for companies in New Zealand to develop our economy. I ask how that squares with \u201Cgoing for growth\u201D. The truth is that it does not. I suspect that most of the members of the National Party know it. Most of its members outside Parliament know it, and most of the people here in the House know it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245a914dd50c24989bde454773e896b47\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: They voted against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253af72886d36495180ada2662747a112\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am quite sure that the National Party told people \u201CDon\u2019t worry about it; we\u2019ll fix it.\u201D I think removing tax credits on research and development undermines our manufacturers and our exporters and their ability to compete against global competition. The global competition they are competing against has tax credits. Most of them do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EMembers can say that the previous Government brought in the tax credits late in the piece. That is fine; I will accept that. I had been arguing for them for some time, to be honest, and others had been too. Anyway, we got there. We were late, sure, and we should have done it earlier, sure, but we got there. We had not only research and development tax credits but also a partnership with industry whereby industry would put in $1,000 million. What does this visionary, aspirational Government do? It cans the lot. Research and development investment and Fast Forward are gone. Where does the replacement come from? It comes from $262 a week extra for someone on a salary of $760,000. Well, that will do it! It is like that Tui ad: Yeah, right!\u201D. That will fix it. That will give us the visionary economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EBy abolishing the research and development tax credits as well as Fast Forward, National is telling New Zealand that we have enough research and development in this country already. Do we? We know that is not true. It is saying that it will work against companies that are thinking about doing more investment in this vital area. It is going to work against them. It is going to punish them for doing it. It is going to punish the most creative and innovative ones\u2014not the rest, but the ones who are actually doing the job now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EIn the last election\u2014perhaps more than in any election in recent history\u2014the economic management of this country was a critical issue. I accept that. People expect that we will make decisions for the long-term future of New Zealand. How is the long-term future of New Zealand benefited by $260 a week for, say, the richest New Zealanders versus research and development tax credits and investment in Fast Forward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EI can give the Committee one simple story. The best and brightest student at Massey University\u2014the best and brightest\u2014had a scholarship to go to the UK. When our Government announced the Fast Forward scheme, he announced, without any influence from anybody, that he was going to leave that scholarship after 6 months and come back to New Zealand because he could see a future here for scientific investment, research, and development, particularly in the agriculture and horticulture sector. What are we saying to him now? We are saying: \u201CDon\u2019t worry, it will be all right, because when you are on a salary of $760,000 a year you will get another 262 bucks a week.\u201D That is not what he said he was coming back for. He was coming back to be a part of a future for research and development industry in New Zealand, as the best and brightest student at Massey University.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThe National Government is closing the door on students like that. If it wants to see the best and brightest New Zealanders leave this country\u2014and it claims it is against that\u2014then it should just carry on with policies like this one, and it will succeed. Countries are going to the IMF for loans, and banks are closing all around the world. New Zealand, I must say, is in a much better position than most of those countries. We have a much better opportunity, particularly as the world\u2019s most efficient country in terms of food production. Our future, in my view, is much more secure than that of many countries, but it will depend on the quality of the research and development investment we make at both public and private levels. In my view, right now in Wellington, in this Parliament, the National Government is closing the door to that future, because it is saying \u201CNo\u201D to investment and it is saying \u201CNo\u201D to long-term development, in favour of a short-term return that it thinks will garner it support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EI say to the M\u0101ori Party in particular and to United Future that their constituencies did not vote for this kind of future. Many of the M\u0101ori incorporations and developing M\u0101ori companies will be hit because of this research and development close-off. The challenge for the M\u0101ori Party is to work out what it is going say to the M\u0101ori companies and corporations, which are starting to be an important element in New Zealand\u2019s economic development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that this legislation is the most short-sighted that I have seen in Parliament for a very long time. It is short-sighted in inspiration, it is short-sighted in aspiration, and it has no practical hold on the reality of what our country desperately needs. This side of the House will fight for the next 3 years to make sure that the National Government and its acolytes, if they vote for it, are held accountable for what will happen as a result of this failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u00221e7f6fbe35ba45c59fecefb3924d5a9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e7f6fbe35ba45c59fecefb3924d5a9e\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022af3b2a3a649949418d334e375fcb2751\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af3b2a3a649949418d334e375fcb2751\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Firstly, I say greetings to you, Mr Chairman, and I acknowledge the status that has been bestowed upon you. No doubt you sought something else, but your very dry and balanced approach from the deep south will balance our liveliness from the north. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. To those who have been made Ministers, I say we look forward to ensuring they earn their keep and to returning all the favours they sought to send in our direction\u2014including Mr Hide, who occupies the seat of Winston Peters and who no doubt celebrates his success in politics, such as it is, by wandering around Auckland and claiming to be the man who buried Winston. He, of course, will in good time learn that what goes around comes around, and I look forward to enjoying many lively whakataetae with him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffba33fcd38148ac8aa056ef5c2400d3\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. There are two things about the Hon Shane Jones\u2019 speech. First, he is not actually addressing the Committee stage of the bill, which he is required to speak to even at this late stage under urgency. Secondly, I have always been quite clear about it being Mr Peters who buried himself and the Labour Party. I did not do anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022638756c0ee1444ea9023aeec2001b078\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234af19fad7b24ec5b58cbbde5c6e4cc4\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: There were three points coming out of the Speech from the Throne, crafted for the Prime Minister. It stated that it is \u201Cvery clear that at all times strengthening the economy will be front and centre of \u2026 priorities. For it is this growth agenda upon which my Government\u2019s vision for New Zealand rests.\u201D Other than the mangled and worsening style of speaking\u2014obviously John Key is the worst presenter we have seen in terms of a Prime Minister\u2014the first thing we see today is the stripping away of the capital base of New Zealand\u2019s industry by this mean-spirited attempt to take away the research and development contributions, imagining that somehow the funding will materialise when it has not been there for nigh on a decade. Where is it going to go? It will go to reward the partisan interests of those who have quietly plotted away to bring John Key forward, and surely John Key will bring out his foul scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003ENot only do we see a complete absence of anything in that speech about how we are to inject greater strength in the capital base of New Zealand\u2019s economy but we see absolutely nothing to grow exports and to grow value-added industries. Rather, it is a revision, a return, back to Ruth Richardson\u2019s approach, which is, firstly, to strip people of their labour rights, and, secondly, to reward those who are doing well and in some way to make the vulnerable and the anxious more insecure, as if that will stop the flow of Kiwis going to Australia. And to ensure that the Kiwis whom the Government is supposedly apprehensive about disappearing go even more quickly, the Government says it will destroy the KiwiSaver scheme, and make it a skeletal, anaemic version of what the Aussies enjoy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003ESo it is a disappointment, Mr Chairman, that you, so early in your tenure, should be exposed to such falsehoods. First, the savings regime is being gutted. Secondly, this measure is very mean and short-sighted\u2014it fits with Mr English\u2019s Cheshire cat, Lewis Carroll style of enigmatic smile, which we have tolerated. But the reality of point number two is that these research and development tax credits are indeed business growth credits. When they are stripped away, that weakens the firms that are supposedly to grow the jobs and grow the wealth of New Zealand. National is scaring further people away from coming back here, because that reduces our competitive advantage to a dreadfully low scale. Thirdly, I note a great line here from the Speech from the Throne: \u201CHonourable members. In going for growth\u201D\u2014permanent growth\u2014\u201Cmy Government will be acutely conscious of the fact that it is \u2026 to the detriment of us all, to allow an underclass to develop in New Zealand.\u201D I say that without jobs, without ongoing investment in firms, without the creation of a flow of goods and services through excellent research, and without income within the class of those people in our society who are vulnerable and anxious, that rhetoric there will be made into a dreadful lie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003ESo it will be great over the next 3 years, as invidious as this position is proving to be personally, to remind all our iwi that the M\u0101ori Party is actually supporting a set of initiatives that not a single M\u0101ori on the M\u0101ori roll voted for. Secondly, it will be great to remind that party that it is supporting a group of people who are rewarding a very narrow, partisan group within society, without a skerrick of concern for the broad base out in the pastoral farming areas and in industry, and in the knowledge that the Aussies have double the performance in relation to research and development as a percentage of GDP that we have in our country. Without an initiative of this nature, we will never recover. Of course, National does not want us to recover. It actually wants to reward that narrow group who are doing reasonably well as it is. One does not send this type of Christmas present without being rewarded with a harsh response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u0022faa590b8554b46f1b75c7fd58d2097a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022faa590b8554b46f1b75c7fd58d2097a0\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question that the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f26542a651674d6785703664db8c78e6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I announce the result of the vote, I just remind members that votes are to be taken in silence for two reasons. The first is that it is hard for the Clerk at the Table to hear at times if he or she is computing, and, secondly, no member in this Chamber will vote under the duress of having other people speaking for whatever reason when he or she is voting. So I just remind members, and say there will be no tolerance about breaches of that rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002279d4b39c702f4f138f1b68c81696844d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd430578506d473e9cba741ccce1fa79\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the vote on Part 2, I will give a ruling on an amendment in the name of the Hon David Cunliffe. The amendment is ruled out of order because it is a direct negation of the part. The proper course of action for members who wish to support this amendment is for them to vote against the part, and if they want any confirmation of that they can look at Speaker\u2019s ruling 107/1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228d890cfdcb874d6fa99538bc10359ee0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022 data-id=\u0022b94d6ac53e984d2e888fe1cc18afbfee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b94d6ac53e984d2e888fe1cc18afbfee\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: We come now to Part 3. This part sets the rates of income tax for the 2009-10 year\u2014that is, clause 29 does. Standing Order 333 requires the Committee to take such a provision as a separately debatable question, unless the Committee, by leave, decides to do otherwise. As clause 29 sets the annual rates of income tax, we will take it first, before the other provisions of Part 3. It is, in fact, the first clause in Part 3. The question is that clause 29 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u00224a102bb549d8424ab7ea91e64613183d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a102bb549d8424ab7ea91e64613183d\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am seeking clarification. Are you saying that clause 29 is to be taken as a separate, debatable motion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f7d9e8420ce44e688703ab442252f88\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u00224c5505df1e2347d4b859c1a4df400d43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c5505df1e2347d4b859c1a4df400d43\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The member is probably not aware that this is a new provision in the Standing Orders. It actually came in with the changes made just before the election, as a result of Standing Orders Committee deliberation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022973667e92d304e389d20922aeac1c3a3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I hope that is clear. I think members ought to be cognisant of the fact that the debate should pertain particularly to the tax rates for the 2009-10 year. That is what the debate is about. It is not a wide-ranging debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f55aeb39a64e4361bf54d3b9c1ccaa5e\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: It is a wide-ranging debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aef3ac9fc1e4026a8a459cb1aea92a1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is wide ranging but it is about taxation issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206ab86677bac4507bf9ef7199db0b563\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: It should be about the rates of tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf8e1479e4c8476d817a6a2ffb8a5c73\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, exactly. Do we all understand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f872a3f504394dadbfec738b161470ff\u0022\u003EClause 29  Rates of income tax for 2009-10 tax year\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u00221fbbb72ab78d47dcb2849ea5ab8b72f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fbbb72ab78d47dcb2849ea5ab8b72f7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I will restrict my comments to one brief call on this very specific clause. It sets the rates for the 2009-10 tax year, and as such it brings us to the heart of a point formerly made by the Minister of Finance. His suggestion was that nobody would be worse off, because the progressive tax reductions that had been put in place by the previous Government had not been implemented yet. Well, if that were the case, there would be no need for this part, which changes the tax rates for the coming year. This particular clause is necessary because Labour\u2019s proposed rate reductions are already part of our law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThat takes us to why significant proportions of the New Zealand public will, in fact, lose. Before I return to the specifics of the mechanisms that mean that many New Zealanders will lose, let me clarify a very important prior point, and that is the difference between the average-income earner and the median-income earner. We know that the \u201Caverage\u201D income is $45,000. It is very interesting that in my electorate of New Lynn 66 percent of all taxpayers earn less than $40,000\u2014earn significantly less than the average income. Two-thirds of people on less than the average wage? What is that about? It is because the average is skewed by a small number of very high earners who drag the average above the median. So when we say that the average-income earner gets $1.92 out of the National Government\u2019s tax reduction, and anyone on below $44,000 with children gets nothing or loses, we are actually saying that two-thirds of all taxpayers in my electorate of New Lynn are either not affected or worse off, and only one-third gains. In Mr Tremain\u2019s electorate of Napier 71 percent of all taxpayers earn less than $40,000, so 71 percent of his taxpaying constituents\u2014if they have children\u2014potentially are worse off as a result of this tax change. Why is that? When we get into the mechanics of the bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a077574410714aadaf7b871c8d943b0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d98b8719f0549f494b76d908e3a3cc3\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Is that \u201Cnobody\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e1facbfcaf44659ea2f25346f2ea5d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: That is nobody who will be voting for Mr Tremain next time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThis issue is of particular importance to the M\u0101ori Party. The M\u0101ori Party is supporting this bill. If two-thirds or more of all taxpayers across the country earn less than the average income, and therefore are going to be losers under this bill\u2014if they have children\u2014imagine the implications for M\u0101ori communities, whose incomes are skewed below the mean. The vast majority of M\u0101ori New Zealanders will be hurt by this bill. We know, as a start-off, that most people who voted for M\u0101ori Party candidates gave Labour their party vote, so this is a sensitive matter for the M\u0101ori party members anyway, given that they have gone into coalition with National\u2014all for two seats outside Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb7c10ce12ad48ef984e3c8869864cf7\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Mana-enhancing!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3e9f6f1c5a144eb8c0d2c544358722e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Mana-enhancing for the individual M\u0101ori Party MP but not for the community. Those people will be asking their representatives why they have done this. Why have they inflicted upon them, in the first business week of the House, a tax increase?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWhat is the mechanism? I see that Mr Tremain still does not understand. If one is on an income of between $14,000 and $20,000, by April 2011\u2014following the period during which this clause applies\u2014one would, by law, have been on a marginal tax rate of 12.5 percent under Labour; under National those people will be on a rate of 21 percent. That is a big difference. That is a big, big difference. Merry Christmas to all of those people who thought that they were going to get a tax cut! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224591b773e9a4443dad661fab77b3b4e2\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: They did not tell us that before the election!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a66544b54e346539b21d69c708d9f7d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: They did not tell us that before the election. I think this measure is a symbol of a much, much deeper problem, and, of course, it is a problem that the M\u0101ori Party will have to wrestle with, and that is that National campaigned on the glossy idea that everybody would have everything that he or she would have had under Labour, but with a few fresh faces to carry it forward. It was a very palatable suggestion. It fed into that old idea that it was time for a change\u2014\u201CBut we actually quite like you guys, so we do not want too much change.\u201D Mr Key understood that, and he campaigned on not making too much change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EBut the rhetoric did not match the reality. On the first business day of the House, in comes a tax bill that gives a tax rate cut and a threshold lift to upper-income earners, and, of course\u2014supported by the financial sector\u2014penalises real businesses, our innovators and exporters, which lose their research and development tax credit, and penalises low and middle income families, the heartland of New Zealand. It disproportionately penalises M\u0101ori and Pacific Island New Zealanders. Good luck to Mrs Turia, good luck to Dr Sharples, and good luck to all the M\u0101ori Party MPs in their next round of hui as they explain what is in this bill for ordinary M\u0101ori people, who will be paying more, not less, tax during the period to which clause 29 applies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u002209a652ed60224cf5b582e1701e06f158\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209a652ed60224cf5b582e1701e06f158\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is an interesting clause\u2014and in ways a somewhat unusual one\u2014which is a kind of historical relic. We have to pass legislation to confirm the annual tax rates, even though in Part 1 of the bill we have set the annual tax rates for 2009-10. In Part 3 we have another provision to confirm that we have actually set those annual tax rates for 2009-10. One may well ask why on earth we have to do that. Well, the historical reason is quite simple: we are confirming the Sovereign power to tax, and we are not allowing the King, or in our case these days the Queen, to levy monies without the consent of Parliament. Although in one bit we have said that those are the tax rates, in this bit we confirm that it is the intention of Parliament, and we have the authority of Parliament, to levy those particular tax rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThis is interesting because this is the one year in which nobody loses\u20142009-10\u2014because the current tax law provides for a series of tax cuts in 2010-11. In 2010 the bottom threshold will move from $14,000 to $17,500, and then to $20,000 on 1 April 2011. On the other hand, the changes made in Part 1 will remove that increase to that threshold, so on incomes from $14,000 to $20,000 a year, a higher level of tax will be paid. But that change will not occur until 1 April 2010, so for this one brief year of glory the National Party will be able to parade around the country saying that nobody is worse off as a result of its tax changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut wait\u2014help is on the way from this side of the Chamber, as has so often been the case so far in this Parliament. We have had to help those members procedurally, and we are now going to help those members in terms of what they will try to tell everybody up and down the country. Very shortly we will come to an amendment when we get on to the next question. It will continue the ability to ensure that nobody is worse off as a result of this bill, by providing a mechanism where nobody will see themselves worse off than they would have been under the provisions in place before this bill is enacted and comes into force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThat is where it will be very interesting to see how people vote. I am particularly interested to see how the M\u0101ori Party votes both on this clause and on later clauses. The M\u0101ori Party has been calling, I think, for a kind of expansive policy\u2014for the first $25,000 to be tax free, for the lowering of GST, and for an enormous range of things, which add up to a vast and gob-smacking sum of money that would clearly have to be raised by an enormous number of raffles being run up and down the country, because it would run into many, many, many billions of dollars a year. What it had to do with M\u0101ori needs is by no means apparent to many of us. Those members now have the chance to decide whether they really want to vote for big tax cuts at the bottom or big tax cuts at the top, because this tax bill provides for tax cuts at the top and increases in tax at the bottom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EI do not think the M\u0101ori Party members understood that. I do not think they were properly briefed on that. I do not think that when they signed up to something that was supposed to be mana-enhancing, they thought they were signing up for the exact reverse of what they had promised their constituents. We will be happy to help their constituents, as well. We will be happy to remind them of how their members have voted, because we know that for small parties of only five members it can be very difficult communicating with their constituents and telling them what they have done. We will be very happy to assist in that and make sure the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s constituents are properly informed about how their members have voted within Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe will also be very interested to see what judgment those constituents make upon that party. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that those constituents will decide that having seen a tax increase over what they were expecting to get, that is somewhat mana-reducing from their perspective rather than mana-enhancing. It may well be goodbye to the M\u0101ori Party at the 2011 election, which will solve a lot of problems for a lot of people. But of course Mrs Turia has a way of making up the difference. She believes that M\u0101ori own the foreshore and seabed; no doubt she will be charging for entry to that at some point in the future under a National Government, and that may well make up some of the difference for some of the families involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EI think not; I do not see the National Party going down that route. The polling tells us\u2014amazingly\u2014that people believe that any change to the current law should reduce M\u0101ori rights, not increase them. So I strongly advise the M\u0101ori Party to adopt the route that Ng\u0101ti Porou has taken, and to advise people to negotiate very strong agreements that will give proper recognition of those rights rather than hold out a false impression that something more significant can be gained from a National-led Government, which will certainly not be the case when reality sets in. Like the Resource Management Act changes, it will be the reverse of what many people were hoping to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ETherefore, this small part confirms those annual tax rates. For this one brief year of glory nobody will lose, and then the losing will begin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u002292ef62da36704e6a8ba62b7564e985a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292ef62da36704e6a8ba62b7564e985a8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a brief call on this particular section of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, as well. As has been said by the previous speaker, this section of the bill sets the tax rates for the forthcoming years at the rates that have been set out earlier in the bill. In other words, this entrenches for the future a decrease in taxes that is weighted to those who already earn the most, and a tax increase for those on lower incomes. It is exactly the opposite of what M\u0101ori Party members say that they stand for, given that M\u0101ori are disproportionately among those who are low earners. Their already low socio-economic status will be hurt by the provisions in this bill that will entrench tax cuts for those who are better off and tax increases for lower-income earners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThis also entrenches the somewhat inconsistent position taken in the legislation, compared with the National Party rhetoric in prior years. Over prior years they have continually said that the price point or the income point at which the highest tax rate kicks in should be raised. The Labour Government legislated for an increase to $80,000, above which the higher tax rate kicked in. This new tax rate kicks in the highest tax rate at $70,000. This seems to me to be yet another broken promise by the National Party compared with the rhetoric of yesteryear, on what is but day two. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EHere we have a National Government doing exactly what the Labour Party predicted it would do; that is, prefer the interests of those who are already well off over those who are less well off. Far from being the friendly face, from being all things to all people as National members tried to present themselves over the last period prior to the election, they are already being exposed as preferring the interests of those who are better off over those who are less well off. It seems unimaginable at a time when we have rising unemployment, as that means that there will be more people on low incomes, as they are reliant on part-time rather than full-time work. They will fall within the low-income bands rather than the high-income bands. Against that reality that we know is real at least for a short period in New Zealand, given international events, those members are proffering a tax package that reduces the tax entitlements of people who are on lower incomes and prefers those who are on higher incomes. It is funded, of course, by the research and development tax credit cuts that were spoken of recently, and also by the gutting of KiwiSaver. So we have fewer jobs in the economy, and those on shorter hours of work as a consequence, with lower incomes, will be among those who suffer the tax consequences of a lower taxable income. It is a matter of some concern for me that the first act of National Party members is to visit the cost of their unwise tax cuts upon those least able to afford the loss of income that will accrue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00221d6ba6d1d660486da6cb1fb02da52c1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d6ba6d1d660486da6cb1fb02da52c1d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier in the debate I took out a copy of the National Party\u2019s taxation policy. In referring to this part of the bill, I note it confirms the tax rates going forward for 2009-10. I reflect on Dr Cullen\u2019s words and those of my colleagues Mr Parker and Mr Cunliffe, when they talked about fairness. I look back at the National Party\u2019s weighty document of propaganda and recall how all the National members\u2014some soon to give their maiden speeches, some from M\u0101ori constituencies as well; and now supported, aided, and abetted totally, sycophantically, by the M\u0101ori Party\u2014went around and said National knew that New Zealanders wanted a tax system that was fair. I reckon we could probably all sign up to that; we all say we want a tax system that is fair. The problem lies in the definition of fairness. If members look at the confirmation of these rates, they will see that what we would define as fair, and what most ordinary New Zealanders would define as fair, is not something that the National Party defines as fair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ENational Party members told everybody before the election, not about these rates and how they would be confirmed today, but that the tax system would be fair. The document also states: \u201CNational\u2019s tax package will give households confidence and some cash in their back pockets.\u201D I just ask, as the Government confirms these tax rates, what is fair about what we have heard today, when, for instance, a person with no children and an income of $23,999 a year will get nothing? I wonder what Mrs Turia and Ms Parata, the new member who will purport, I suspect, to represent a M\u0101ori constituency, will say to their constituents when they go back to the marae. As the National Party confirms these rates, they know that those at the very bottom will get no assistance at all, or will end up paying more tax than they currently pay. I wonder how those members will respond when somebody on the marae stands up, probably quotes this document, and asks Ms Parata or Mrs Turia: \u201CHow do you define fairness?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ETo be charitable to the M\u0101ori Party\u2014let us be a little bit charitable\u2014maybe it got sucked in by this bill. Maybe the M\u0101ori Party members did not read it or it was not explained; maybe they were hoodwinked, or maybe they were not told. Let us be as charitable as we can. But they have been told today and they were told yesterday about this measure; it has been explained over and over again. What will be etched in my memory is the face\u2014and I have some sympathy for him\u2014of poor old Hone Harawira, as he buried himself behind the desk yesterday and put up his hand to vote with the National Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7bdff14cddb4005b34eba4ae5960ed7\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Trembling!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a22a5a9a5764f2cbb377211cf764625\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014knowing that morally this is wrong. He knows that all the constituents he works for\u2014and I am told he is a damn hard-working MP and is respected, as Mr Mallard said last night\u2014will be sold out by this measure in toto. I am going to find the situation very interesting, as we deal with the confirmation of these rates, when some of the M\u0101ori members go back to their marae and their communities and somehow explain this measure to them. It is going to be an interesting course of events. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIt shows me that this is a traditional National Party move: to have an election, promise fairness, equity, aspiration, love, peace, and happiness to all, and then to do people over\u2014put the sword into them and slash at the most vulnerable part of our communities. The National members are doing that before Christmas under urgency, with no select committee scrutiny, in the vain hope that people are tired of politics. They hope people will want to get out to the barbecue and go to the beach with the family, to have a few sausages, play a bit of golf or whatever else, and be with their kids, and will not concentrate on politics. They hope and pray that our communities are thick. Well, I say our communities are not thick, and when people open their pay packets in the months and years to come, and when they try to do some good for their children and their loved ones\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022903639861f944e22826638c8f0eb7a58\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Clause 29 is a very narrow clause. The member is an experienced speaker. He is way outside the scope of clause 29, which is very narrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dff29673b6348eea21a12deb6a23d88\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I have consistently referred to the confirmation of the tax rates, and I am now explaining the consequences of confirming them. That is in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d746048e853c4650bb789bc977259dcf\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Clayton Cosgrove.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d18aeeffb03042c990d6f2c98cd65b33\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. The National members may not like that, or course. They do not like to hear that. They do not like it when Dr Cullen repeats that. A couple of them over there grin and laugh, and they do not like it when we repeat what the consequences of the actions taken in this Parliament over the next few hours will be. They can jeer and they can laugh. Mr Dunne is a straw man who blows with the breeze\u2014the great man of common sense. I suspect that deep down\u2014although he has his backside in the LTD, I have respect for the member\u2014even he knows this is wrong. Even he knows this is wrong, deep down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIt is very interesting, I say again, as we confirm these rates, that not one member in the National Party has contradicted Dr Cullen, me, David Cunliffe, Mr Mallard, or Mr Parker, when we have stood up and given case after case of situations where injustice will occur as a result of confirming these rates. Not one of them has contradicted that. I would have thought that if we were wrong, OK, we were wrong. But the National members should tell us that, give us the evidence, stand up, and justify their position. They cannot do so; they will not do so. They have no evidence. I look forward to holding up this document around the country and inviting people to say whether, in their communities, they have been treated with fairness, with dignity, and with respect. Have they had their aspirations warmed and supported, and have they chosen a brighter future, when those who need some dough and some help are being sold out by those guys over there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228501d741453a4fcdb2b70ed4546e8a4a\u0022\u003EMaiden Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bbb91959fff47528ebabdd6e0e83f54\u0022\u003EMaiden Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5c27af5cab848b886b8859b421696c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5c27af5cab848b886b8859b421696c9\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I would like to congratulate my local MP, Lockwood Smith, on his election to the role of Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003ECould I start by saying a fond greeting to Jeremy Greenbrook-Held of Oriental Bay. In the letters to the editor in the Dominion Post on 24 November, under the heading \u201CJust who is this man Joyce?\u201D, Mr Greenbrook-Held lamented that I had made it into my role without giving a single interview. This will come as a surprise to a number of journalists who had interviewed me prior to that time, but I will nevertheless attempt to fill some gaps for Mr Greenbrook-Held today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EI live north of Auckland but I am a Naki boy\u2014born and raised in New Plymouth. It is a wonderful part of the world, and I love to go back to visit the mountain, the parks and the wild west coast. However, I have to say I am a fan of pretty much all of this country; I am actually a bit of a greenie, just not the type who sits over on that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EAs it is for all of us, my family came here from lands far away. My father\u2019s family are Irish Catholics. My great-grandfather Eugene Joyce arrived as a young man on the Invercargill in 1879. He married Ellen and they settled in Taranaki, where they had seven children. One of them was my grandfather Len, a bee-keeper who lived with his wife, Eileen, in Eltham, which is where my father grew up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EOn my mother\u2019s side, my great-grandmother Granny Hooper was a Cockney. She migrated with her family in 1878, landing in Nelson after 4 months at sea. She must have liked it here because she lived to 101, and I can vaguely remember her 100th birthday party, held when I was about 5. My mother was born in Kaponga. Her father was a lawyer turned insurance salesman, and a lay preacher in the Anglican Church. Their family were staunch Anglicans, my father\u2019s family were staunch Catholics, and that was a time when those differences did matter. It tested both families when my parents married in 1961, now nearly 50 years ago. I am thrilled they are both here together in the gallery today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EMy parents scrimped and borrowed and bought a Four Square dairy in New Plymouth. They were not greatly educated\u2014they both left school at 15\u2014but they worked really hard to make a go of their business and their family. They ran a 7-day business and brought up five kids at the same time. From where I am sitting today, that seems pretty heroic. My family, then, is from a long line of small-business people. Apart from a few years managing a supermarket, my father and mother always owned their own businesses, including their own supermarket. So it is probably not a surprise that I did the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EI had my first taste of radio when I was finishing my zoology degree at Massey University in 1983. A bunch of us worked at Radio Massey. In 1984, members may recall, there was an election, so we decided to run a series of current affairs shows in the style of the political television shows of the time, with intercut interviews. With seriously inferior equipment, a fearless group of us worked 24 hours at a time to bring to air the hugely important Radio Massey election specials on political issues of the day. We interviewed luminaries like the late Bruce Beetham and the late Trevor de Cleene, and put those shows to air for audiences of roughly 50 people each night, probably 48 of whom would have preferred to hear the latest Joy Division track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003ESo I could have been a journalist, maybe. I have a brother and a sister who are members of that truly esteemed profession. Instead, it was during those late-night sessions at Radio Massey that five of us decided to start a commercial radio station of our own. We each put in $100, and Energy Enterprises\u2014which became RadioWorks\u2014was born with $500 in the bank. Energy FM ran as a summer station in New Plymouth for 3 years, which was all we were allowed to do under the law at that time, each time making a bit of money to help pay for our full-time FM licence application. We chased down shareholders and a board of directors, went to a licence hearing with the Broadcasting Tribunal, then waited 15 long months for a decision to be released. During that time we lost three of our number\u2014I think they got bored\u2014and found one more. In mid-1987 Energy FM got a licence to start broadcasting across Taranaki, and on 30 November that year we went to air.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003ERunning one\u2019s own business is hard work. It is hard work a lot of the time, and fantastic fun some of the time. Running one\u2019s own radio station is even more fun. The three of us poured all we had into that business. We continued to live like university students for years, on the grounds that if we did not become used to a more comfortable lifestyle, we would not miss it. We bought stations in Tauranga and Hamilton. We started The Edge, and Solid Gold FM, and built those two and The Rock into national, satellite-delivered networks. We added stations by growth and acquisition, until by 2000 we had offices in every major town and city in the country, and 650 staff across four networks and 18 local radio stations. It was an amazing ride. We all learnt a huge amount about growing and running companies, organisational cultures, and getting the best out of people. I met, and worked with, hundreds of fantastic people, many of whom I count as friends today. Throughout, we had mostly the same board: Norton Moller, Derek Lowe, and John Armstrong. They were my mentors commercially, and I am greatly indebted to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003ECanWest raided our share register on the stock exchange in 2000. Some of us held out for a while, but eventually we realised the dream was over, and I retired from my role as chief executive officer of RadioWorks on my 38th birthday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EIt was time to take stock, and time to give something back. I joined the gym. I started running; unfortunately, I later stopped running. And I joined the National Party. I put my name forward, and nearly stood, in 2002, but as it turned out it would have been a purely academic exercise. Instead, I got my first National Party job after the election. I was asked to join the campaign review, and then the full strategic review of the organisation. It was an absolute honour to do both, and to be trusted by a set of people who had no history by which to trust me. The party in 2002 was hurting pretty badly, and I was conscious of the need to take real care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EThe rebuilding of the National Party was a team effort, and I am very proud to have played my part. However, a lot of the credit must go to our party\u2019s president. Judy Kirk is now coming up towards 7 years in the role. In 2002, when she took over as president, an opinion poll that week rated the National Party at 18 percent. For the first time in its history it was in danger of no longer leading the centre-right in the New Zealand Parliament. In the 2008 election\u20141 month ago\u2014the National Party achieved 45 percent of the party vote, the highest vote by any political party under MMP, and the highest vote full stop since 1990. It is a fantastic turn-round, ably led from the front by our new Prime Minister, the Hon John Key, and, prior to him, our previous leaders, Don Brash and Bill English. However, any great leader needs an organisation to lead, and Judy Kirk rebuilt that organisation, without sacrificing either her decency or her principles. When all is said and done, I am confident her name will be up there as one of the National Party\u2019s great presidents, alongside the name of her mentor, Sir George Chapman, and that will be no more than she deserves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EIt is traditional to thank your electorate workers in your maiden speech for helping you get to Parliament. I am, of course, one of the lesser beasts\u2014a list MP\u2014and, worse still, one who did not stand in an electorate. But I did run a campaign of sorts. It was a little bit dire in places, according to some of my critics, but redeemed by a fine candidate who shone through despite the poor support he received from his national campaign chair! There are many people I can and do want to thank for that campaign, particularly those at campaign HQ in Wellington, and the thousands of volunteers around the country who put up with the rather dictatorial requirements of the Wellington crew. I will not mention names today. They all know who they are. Can I just say that I could not hope to work with a finer bunch of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003ESo, via a stint running another marvellous, proud, smallish New Zealand company with another great team of people, Jasons Travel Media, I arrive here in this building, this hermetically sealed vortex, which is our Parliament. So what contribution can I make to this place? Who do I represent? Well, I think I can be a voice for the people who always pay their taxes and who want to see them go to a good home. Primarily because I have been in business for most of the last 21 years, I can bring an understanding of the thinking of business people\u2014small and medium sized business people in particular, who organise most of the wealth creation that takes place in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EI understand the mentality of those who become frustrated at Government getting in the way of their doing their job, who chafe at needless regulation and the sight of wasted tax money, who become frustrated by poorly performing infrastructure. I understand the fear they have of Government organisations muscling in on their industries by spending public money to compete with them in their marketplace for no good reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EI bring a real understanding of the value of a dollar. From the time I was a little tacker, sitting at my family dining table as my parents added up the week\u2019s takings, I understood that there was no money around if you did not go out and earn it yourself. I understand those people who see Wellington as a \u201Cgreat sucking sound\u201D that hoovers up more and more of the nation\u2019s money so that politicians can look like heroes when they spend it\u2014people who are happy to pay their share but are not happy to see it wasted. I also understand what drives people: the desire to better the lot of themselves and their families under their own steam, and to not have to rely on Government handouts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EI understand that as a country we have limitless calls on our resources, and limited resources. I know that the only way we are going to progress in the manner we all hope for and provide for those less fortunate is by spending wisely the money we have, and spending most of our time working out how to grow faster to pay for all the things we need. And I think I understand what is possible in organisations that think small and nimble, where the frontline is encouraged and well resourced and the back office is pared back, and that are tuned to what the customer is seeking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EOne of the distinctive features of this country is that we are a small group of islands at the bottom of the world. There are only 4.25 million of us. Small can be tough. It means small home markets, not as many resources, and not as big a pool of talent as some bigger countries have. However, our smallness need not be a negative; it can be a strength, and it should be more often. Individuals with ambition and drive have shown throughout history that they can achieve a lot more here a lot more quickly than they can in bigger countries. One great running coach, one great rowing coach, can achieve amazing things. Our smallness means that a high proportion of us are interconnected. People used to talk a lot about the six degrees of separation; in New Zealand I am sure that half the time it is just two or three degrees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EOur smallness can translate to nimbleness: the ability to change course, move quickly, make things happen. Sadly, from a vantage point outside the Government and, now, from inside it, I can see that we get wrapped up in the fact that this new regulation or law, or entitlement, or initiative is world best-practice, that by doing it we are suddenly right up there with the EU, or the UK, or the US. Maybe a world-beating, all-singing, all-dancing, multilayered process is the correct approach for a large country. Maybe for us we can trim it down, shorten it, and, dare I say, spend less money doing it. Put it this way: if we cannot, how can we compete with much larger countries? I am all for fair and sensible rules of commerce and social interaction; we just need to scale them to our size and look for the simpler way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EI believe we have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity in this country, and a corresponding risk that goes with it. We can recapture our mojo and become the feisty, resourceful, exciting, No. 8 wire sort of place that enabled all our forebears to make a success of themselves way down here at the bottom of the world; or we can fade away and continue on the path of figuratively, and maybe one day even literally, being the smallest and poorest also-ran state of Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EI do not believe I bring any pretensions to this new role. I am honoured to be provided with the opportunity to serve, and I will work diligently to repay the confidence that has been shown in me by my party, by my leader, and by New Zealanders. When it comes to work I am a believer in doing the hard yards. In rugby terms, and I stress that my familiarity with the code has pretty much always been as a fan, I like to grind it out\u2014nothing too flashy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EI also, these days, like to have a little balance. Members may ask what I am doing here! Apparently, it is a little bit tricky in this Parliament to have balance, but I find that it helps people to keep perspective\u2014which also might be a bit tricky here. I have an inspiration, though: my wonderful wife, Suzanne; our daughter, Amelia; and Gemma the retrodoodle. I know they will insist on seeing me regularly, no more than I will insist on seeing them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, I will work diligently to help make this country a stronger, more successful, and proud place. That is why I am here\u2014for no other reason. If I can help to do that, then I will be able to hold my head high when I report back to New Zealanders when my time here is done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022 data-id=\u002298102d7a2259423898e6277653f3c5bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298102d7a2259423898e6277653f3c5bb\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National): \u003C/span\u003EE te Mana Whakaw\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. E ng\u0101 whanaunga, e ng\u0101 hoa, e te hunga k\u0101inga i haramai i t\u0113nei r\u0101 ki te tautoko i ahau, t\u0113nei te mihi aroha ki a koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker. Also to relatives, friends, and to those from home who travelled here today to support me, this heartfelt acknowledgment to you collectively.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI acknowledge my family and friends who have travelled here today to share this occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E Ko Hikurangi me Aorangi aku maunga, ko Waiapu me Waitaki aku awa, ko Ng\u0101ti Porou me Ng\u0101i Tahu aku iwi. I identify through my cultural frame of reference my mountains, Hikurangi and Aorangi; my rivers, Waiapu and Waitaki; and my iwi, Ng\u0101ti Porou and Ng\u0101i Tahu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003ET\u0113nei te mihi ki te mana whenua ki a Te \u0100ti Awa me ng\u0101 waka katoa i tau mai nei ki Te Whanga-nui-a-Tara. I acknowledge the guardians of this land, Te \u0100tiawa, and all those waka that have come ashore here in Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Pirimia John Key. Ka t\u012Bkina e ahau ng\u0101 kupu o t\u0113tahi waiata n\u0101 t\u014Dku t\u012Bpuna, n\u0101 H\u0101nara Rire, i tito m\u014D T\u0101 Apirana Ngata e p\u0101 ana ki a koe i t\u0113nei w\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E[My greetings to you, Prime Minister John Key. I reach back in time for the words of a song that my grandfather Arnold Reedy composed for Sir Apirana Ngata\u2014words that I consider apply aptly to you at this point in time:]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI greet you, Prime Minister, and recall the words of a song originally composed by my grandfather Arnold Reedy for Sir Apirana Ngata: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E \u201CTe wa-ka o Aotearoa, he tini ng\u0101 kaihaut\u016B, ko koe r\u0101 e Hone kei te kei, e koro kia \u016B.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E[\u201CThe New Zealand canoe has many captains, but you John, are at the helm, hold fast.\u201D]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E\u201CThe waka of Aotearoa has many captains, but you, John, are at the helm.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EKei te rangatira kei a Helen Clark, m\u014D t\u014D whakahaere i ng\u0101 tau kua pahure ake nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te whanaunga, Parekura. Talofa e te mema m\u014D te rohe o Mana, a Luamanuvao Winnie Laban. Otir\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa ng\u0101 kaihoe o t\u0113n\u0101 waka, o t\u0113n\u0101 waka o te P\u0101remata. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E[To you, Helen Clark, former leader, I acknowledge your stewardship over these past years. Greetings to you, my kinsman Parekura, and to the member for Mana, Luamanuvao Winnie Laban. Indeed, my acknowledgments to all oarspersons of each parliamentary canoe.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003ETo our former leader, for her stewardship over these past years, I salute you, Helen Clark. To my kinsman, Parekura Horomia, I greet you. To the member for Mana, I acknowledge you. To all the different waka that have berthed at Parliament, I greet you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EMauriora!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, I should like to congratulate you on your appointment. I also acknowledge the Governor-General, who commissioned the opening of the forty-ninth Parliament; my colleagues Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga and Melissa Lee\u2014fakafetai and ahn nyung ha se yo\u2014my colleague the Hon Steven Joyce, who opened our paepae this afternoon; and those who will follow. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EAs I stand before you today, I am at once conscious of the weight of history and expectation that press upon me and the lightness of possibilities that beckon. I am familiar with this dichotomy; I have grown up in a culture that walks through the present with the constant companions of the past and the future. This practice prepares us particularly well for this parliamentary role, I think, as we weigh actions of today against those of the past and the implications of the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EIn 1885 my great-great-grandfather Tame Parata entered Parliament as the member for Southern Maori. He served a distinguished career of 26 years, dedicating his efforts to his people in their search for quality citizenship in their own lands. Later, in 1905, another tipuna of mine\u2014ours\u2014Sir Apirana Ngata, entered Parliament as the member for Eastern M\u0101ori, and committed his public service of 38 years to seeking opportunities for, and emphasising obligations to, citizenship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EThey, along with many others, shared a profound appreciation of the birthright of this small, young nation and its potential. They also held in common an attitude that characterised those generations of the reciprocal responsibility to return in equal or greater measure that which had been given. I enter Parliament and I begin this phase of my public service journey proud to follow in the footsteps of these ancestors in the pursuit of quality citizenship for all. They provide a model that I am glad to emulate: unambiguously Ng\u0101ti Porou and Ng\u0101i Tahu, unequivocally a New Zealander.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI come to Parliament by way of an extensive Public Service career, with detours into wealth-creating and wh\u0101nau-employing business experiences, and punctuated by recalls to my home of Ruat\u014Dria, the capital of Ng\u0101ti Porou. I grew up in the central business district of Ruat\u014Dria when our area was famous for land innovation, dairy factories, cultural foreign policy, lawyers, educators, and public servants. It was a community where Ng\u0101ti Porou was the spoken language except in schools, and te reo M\u0101ori was for dealing with other distant tribes and their strange dialects and practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI grew up at the centre of a strong and dynamic web of kinship relationships, amongst orators, thinkers, debaters, and composers, where competence and whakapapa were the determinants of leadership\u2014not gender. I grew up believing that everyone was Anglican, all worshipped Sir Apirana Ngata, Hikurangi was the highest mountain in the world, and the Waiapu swept majestically to the sea. I saw no need for reality to intrude upon this set of beliefs, because they performed the very useful function of securing identity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI came from a community at a time when it was peopled by hard, hard workers, who eked out livings on infertile and soft country that, even as it was farmed, slipped away into the river and out to sea. These people suffered the boom and bust of officialdom, the capricious ideas of what next to invest in, how now we might be saved\u2014always by well-meaning yet very distant bureaucrats and politicians, and all the time oblivious to the possibility that we might actually save ourselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI come from a community where wh\u0101nau was the pivot round which life turned; where education was the magic bullet; where self-reliance and self-determination were practised, not talked about; and where humour, courage, hope, and gratitude were the hallmarks of citizenship\u2014most nobly personified in the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion, literally the most costly in lifeblood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EIn my lifetime I have seen the very kinds of communities of my upbringing succumb to the disease of dependency, where State intervention is the norm, not the exception; where caregivers, providers, facilitators, and sector workers replace aunts, uncles, neighbours, and friends; where State welfare rather than social welfare is the first resort and the basis of an intergenerational life sentence rather than a lifeline; where despair and alienation are masked by drugs, alcohol, and abuse; where displaced anger makes victims of children and their mothers; where low expectation in schools is predictably repaid with low achievement; and where fault and blame-laying have become the defence of failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003ERuat\u014Dria, I now know, was always economically challenged. But its cultural wealth and social richness, its determined self-belief and hard work kept it viable. We must find ways to lay bare all the causes of these symptoms, so that we might, with purpose and compassion, find durable solutions. I feel called to Parliament to do something about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI have spent my professional career in the Public Service informing policy with these realities, striving to create opportunities for communities to drive their own development, advocating fiercely for meaningful resourcing and realistic time lines, resisting the bureaucratising of the original flair and ingenuity that attracted funding in the first place, promoting the value of different cultural approaches, and exposing the presumptuous bias of majority culture presented as the norm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI was born and brought up in a family of eight by parents who instilled in us the importance of family, education, community service, education, hard work, education, high expectations, and an attitude of success. Our parents worked; we worked\u2014often several jobs at once. None of this was unusual or peculiar to our family. All the families we grew up with, went to school with, and continue to be in touch with lived lives like this. These are the wh\u0101nau I know and recognise. This is the model that informs my vision for the building blocks of modern Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EMy parents\u2019 very different backgrounds converged successfully in their children, I think, and gifted us with the very New Zealand legacy of mixed ancestry: Scottish, Irish, English, Ng\u0101i Tahu, and Ng\u0101ti Porou. So I come to Parliament a fully committed bicultural citizen, a descendant of both M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101, and imbued with the spirit of Sir Apirana Ngata\u2019s prescription for life: \u201CGrow up and meet the needs of your generation, master the technologies of the modern world for your material well-being, cherish the treasures of your ancestors as a plume for your head, your soul given to God, author of all things.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI come to Parliament equipped with our experience of starting our own businesses and managing them through all the highs and lows that attend such initiatives. We have faced the risks that small businesses up and down the country face. We have slogged through the mire of compliance regimes and related costs. We have encountered the impervious official at the point of export, indifferent to the effects of inexplicable bureaucracy and the costs incurred. We must liberate businesses to create employment and wealth, and bend our minds to that rather than to ever more clever ways to redistribute it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI come to Parliament by way of my residence in the greater Porirua region\u2014a microcosm of Aotearoa New Zealand. It is an area of great diversity, with a high proportion of very old people and very young people; with extremes in socio-economic status, with some of the highest average household incomes and some of the lowest; and balanced by a deep pool of potential and a crucible of cultural richness in the form of M\u0101ori, Pacific, P\u0101keh\u0101, Asian, and other ethnic minorities. It is a growing, creative community, well served by the internationally renowned P\u0101taka Museum and Art Gallery, which is to be complemented\u2014when we can secure the resources\u2014by a performing arts centre; and by the strong and innovative Whitireia Community Polytechnic, which with sufficient investment can and will design programmes that arise out of the cultural wealth of the region, creating new technologies we know to be essential to the productivity and growth and international competitiveness of our nation. And, cradling it all, there is an environment that is both beautiful and fragile, and while it looks after us, we in turn must care for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EMr Speaker and honourable members, I come to Parliament with high expectations of what is possible. I come shaped and moulded by the influences and experiences I have outlined. I come with an unshakeable belief in the potential of this country, its people, and this Parliament. My recipe has three simple ingredients from my own life story: family, identity, and education. We must restore wh\u0101nau and families as the cornerstones of our communities, invest in the cultural diversity of this country\u2014not because it is fashionable, but because it carries identity and the potential for innovation and new technologies\u2014and join the crusade for literacy and numeracy and for a good-quality education for every New Zealand student. We must adopt an uncompromising attitude that failure is not an option. All our other aspirations for economic growth, raised standards of living, and national confidence and pride will flow from getting these basics right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI come to Parliament determined to add to the legacy of those who have gone before\u2014the pursuit of quality citizenship. As I go to my office in this historic building, I pass my own panel of scrutineers, their faces challenging and supporting me. I am grateful to walk alongside them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EIn closing, I should like to acknowledge all the people who have touched my life. A small number have been able to join us here today; others watch Parliament TV at home on the Coast, down South, and around the country. I know that my mother, H\u012Bria Te Kiekie Reedy, will be watching, and I pay tribute to her constant love and support, as I do to that of my brothers and sisters and their partners and families, who together form the kind of wh\u0101nau that is so easy to have policy theories about but who everyday work hard at making it real.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EFinally, I would like to especially acknowledge my husband, Wira Gardiner, whose pragmatic approach to what is possible, encapsulated by Maggie Thatcher\u2019s instruction to her generals \u201CGo to war with what you\u2019ve got.\u201D, has become part of the language of our home, and keeps me grounded when in pursuit of perfection. And to our two wonderful, gorgeous, smart, funny, demanding, fabulous daughters, R\u0101kaitem\u0101nia and Mihimaraea, I say that you deserve the very best. Since having their bright lights shine into my life, there has been a heightened sense of urgency and a sharpened focus on the kind of society in which their aspirations and ambitions can be given loft and momentum, and through which they can walk with confidence and poise as Ng\u0101ti Porou citizens of the world, blessed\u2014as we all are\u2014to call this magnificent country, Aotearoa New Zealand, home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EMr Speaker and honourable members, I come to Parliament with high expectations of what is possible. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EWaiata; haka\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022 data-id=\u00225a9fd2efaaa84d45a88dc5b35251ae03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a9fd2efaaa84d45a88dc5b35251ae03\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E It is with a great deal of respect that I rise to present my maiden speech in this Chamber, and I offer my congratulations to you, sir, on your election. I stand before this House as the representative for the newly formed Canterbury seat of Selwyn, and I am conscious of the great debt that I owe to the people of my electorate for the faith they have shown in me. I would like to begin today by pledging to them my commitment to work in their interests and for their advancement for the time I am here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EI would also like to pay a personal tribute to the Prime Minister, the Hon John Key. Our Prime Minister is a man of great honour and real charisma, and a man with a heartfelt empathy for the people of New Zealand. He has been an inspiration to me, my electorate, and all New Zealand, and I am especially honoured to be serving in his Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EWe seem to raise strong politicians on the Canterbury plains. I come from the same part of the country as the great Sir John Hall, a farmer, and former Premier of New Zealand, who in the 1870s formed and maintained a Government in a period of great change and instability. Sir John is particularly to be remembered for one of his final acts of public life, which was to successfully shepherd the women\u2019s suffrage bill into the House in 1890. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EIn the passage of time we seem to have lost sight of the enormous contribution Sir John made, and, as a woman now representing his home area, I take a moment to acknowledge his legacy. As a farmer, he and his brothers formed one of the first large-scale sheep runs in the South Island, which later became Terrace Station. As a politician for the original Selwyn seat, he was respected for his integrity and huge contribution to the developing nation\u2019s landscape. Sir John was a staunch conservative who felt that women would bring more decorum and civilised behaviour to politics, and who would be least likely to countenance official extravagance. Women, he noted, \u201Cinstinctively possess a far keener insight into character than men, and the result of giving them a vote would be that a candidate\u2019s chance at election would depend more on his character, for trustworthiness, for ability and for straightforwardness than on mere professions made on the hustings.\u201D He said: \u201CA clever ready-tongued political adventurer may cajole a set of dull-witted men, but if he has to pose before a number of women they will see right through his real character. It will be of no use trying to get around them with blarney and humbug; they will soon discover whether he is the unselfish patriot he professes to be or a selfish hypocrite who wishes to make use of the people for his own benefit. Women\u2019s intellect would be a surer guide in cases of this kind\u201D, Sir John said, \u201Cthan that of the majority of men.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EOne hundred and fifteen years since that pivotal moment in our history, I am extremely proud to represent the new Selwyn electorate, and I wish to acknowledge the many notable members of this House from the area who have come before me, including two former Prime Ministers: the Rt Hon Sidney Holland and the Rt Hon Jenny Shipley. I come to this House as a commercial lawyer and a Canterbury sheep farmer and, based on that, just last week in Wellington someone called me a \u201Ctypical Nat\u201D. Well, I make no apology for that side of my background. I am extremely proud of what I have worked very hard to achieve. But for those who are looking to stereotype me, it is worth pointing out that I also grew up in a sole parent household, always short of money, with my mother putting herself through a degree with two preschoolers underfoot, to eventually become a psychologist bonded to the Education Department. Her job, working with some of the most unfortunate families, meant we grew up all over the place\u2014Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia, Hamilton, Wellington, and eventually Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003ECompared with many Kiwi kids, though, I was fortunate, because I came from a family of self-starters who believed that anything was possible if one worked hard enough. One of my grandfathers was an engineer and an inventor, who started a factory in his Wellington garage that employed many people for decades. My other grandfather is a well-respected accountant in Motueka, who again built his business from the ground up\u2014a business that has strong roots in the agricultural and farming communities in the Tasman region. For myself, it was while I was at Canterbury University and met my husband that I began my relationship with the farming and rural sectors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EBack in Sir John Hall\u2019s day, New Zealand was a young country, building its fortunes on the sheep\u2019s back\u2014an agricultural economy with a bright future. Today agriculture is still the backbone of our export-based economy. It was our past, and it remains our future. It is the primary sector that will help us as a country find our way through these troubled financial times. However, the farming sector is under threat from all sides, and the threats that face the rural sector in New Zealand are serious, and will need commitment and innovation to find solutions. At this time, we need the rural sector more than ever. We need to treasure our rural communities, not trash them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003ESomething that worries me is how many New Zealanders have lost touch with the land. Most Kiwi kids do not visit farms any more. They do not see lambs in the spring, and they do not grow up knowing that farmers care about their land\u2014its health and its future. It is not in farmers\u2019 interests to pillage nature. Farmers farm for future generations, and they farm for the prosperity of all New Zealand. Environmentally, we must find a workable balance between the needs of the environment and those of the rural sector and other stakeholders. But when we talk about sustainability, as we must, let us not forget the need to also be economically sustainable in the international marketplace. Although the issues we face will be challenging, and at times contentious, I am confident that if all sides can approach the issues collaboratively, solutions can be found and implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EWe must also remember that the plight of agriculture is not just about the success of our economy. The world has a massively expanding population, and UN predictions are that feeding those people will be one of the biggest challenges in years to come. We cannot afford to let our agriculture industry in New Zealand shrink, where we have the proven capability to produce some of the best, and most environmentally sound, foodstuffs in the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EThe management of water, and in particular the need for large-scale water storage facilities in Canterbury, is one of the most difficult but also most important issues facing my electorate. Water is life, and nowhere is that more true than on the farm. In rural homes throughout the country, the amount of rain that has fallen, and the forecasts from the rain radar, are not just small talk. They can make the difference each year between survival and foreclosure. To resolve the matter we must look for the optimal solution, and then ensure that the law enables it to be achieved. Decisions should not be driven by who got in first, or which option is most expedient under the Resource Management Act. Rather, a macro-analysis of long-term outcomes and community needs must be the central consideration. We as politicians must ensure that the law supports rather than hinders such an approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EThat brings me to infrastructure. For too long, politicians have dodged the issue of infrastructure development. Time and time again, infrastructure has been shunted into the too-hard basket. Infrastructure requires long-term thinking, long-term funding, and long-term commitment. I have no doubt that short-term thinking has already cost this country considerably. We have to start thinking as a nation and not just as individuals. It really is a case of doing it for the greater good. And it is not just the economic cost. Communities suffer when schools, roads, libraries, broadband services, and the like do not keep pace with population growth. The lack of community infrastructure is a major issue for many parts of Selwyn. I do not want our communities to be nothing more than a place where people go to sleep. For communities to support their people, we must first support our communities. For New Zealand to succeed, we cannot keep saying no to infrastructure projects because they involve change. The process should instead focus on fairly balancing all competing interests, including wider public needs. To build New Zealand\u2019s productivity we need to get innovative, take risks, and do it fast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EFifteen years as a commercial lawyer has taught me that there are already hugely innovative and talented people in our business communities, but we are making it very hard for them to succeed locally and on a world stage. All over the country, these business people are telling me that one of the biggest challenges is getting a straight answer from central and local government. People are generally happy to work within the rules. They just want to be told definitively what the rules are. Businesses need to have certainty, and to be able to plan ahead, confident that the playing field will not change every few years. Being told by central or local government that the system means that it will take many months or years and often cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in consultant and legal fees to work out whether something can be done is not OK. It is a huge drain on business, and it is pouring productivity down the plughole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EMaking laws that effect people\u2019s lives is a very grave responsibility. When the law does put restrictions on people, we owe it to them to make the rules clear and concise, and not open to subjective interpretation leading to wide inconsistencies of result. An example is that of a farmer in my electorate, who was building two sheds that were exactly the same, a few paddocks apart on the same farm. One council, two building applications, and two different council officers were involved. The approval for the first shed took just a few weeks, and did not require anything further. The second identical shed took months, and required the furnishing of considerable further information and reports, and, of course, extra costs. That is not right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EOf course, we must have regulations, but let us think very carefully about what any restriction on people\u2019s freedoms actually gives to society. If the benefit is minimal, and the compliance or productivity cost is high, let us not do it. Business in this country has often been demonised in recent years as large, heartless corporations making money off Kiwis for their international owners. But in reality, the face of New Zealand business is a couple of guys working in a workshop out at the back of town fixing cars, or a mum selling kids\u2019 products on the Internet from home, or builders, sparkies, cleaners, lawn-mowing contractors, and painters. The productivity of this country is in their hands. They form the bulk of New Zealand businesses, and they will be very exposed in the coming economic storm. They are the infantry of our economy, and they are fighting on the front lines right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003ESo are we sending in reinforcements, or will we abandon them? And it is the same in the social sector. We need some long-term thinking, focused on early intervention initiatives that can make a real difference. We have serious social issues to confront as a nation. While there are outstanding programmes in place, we need more. We need major attitudinal change right across this country. I believe that the key is fostering a strong sense of individual responsibility. As a parent, I can say that there is only one way to teach responsibility, and that is for there to be clear and consistent consequences for one\u2019s actions. If 3-year-olds can get it, I think other Kiwis can too. That means that to be part of the very special community that is New Zealand, we expect people to take responsibility for themselves and their families. The State is here to help, but it is not its role to run our lives, tell us what to do, or tell us how to do it. The role of Government is not to wrap us in cotton wool to save us from ourselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EI can assure people that I will stick up for the right of Kiwi kids to play on swings, see-saws, skateboards, and cycles; and to climb trees, and build tree houses without the need for a building consent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EI want to take the opportunity to publicly acknowledge my husband and my two wonderful children who are here today for their unending love and support, and for making sure that my feet stay firmly on the ground. Don, Thomas, and Lucy, you are the reason for everything I do, and I love you deeply. Thanks must also go to my wider family, my parents, my sister Belinda, particularly, and to my new Selwyn electorate family for all their tireless work supporting me over the previous year. There are simply too many of you to name, but you know who you are. My thanks also go to the National Party, its president Judy Kirk, and our regional chairman, Roger Bridge, and my caucus colleagues for your unfailing support and guidance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EI conclude by saying that in my view for most of the past decade New Zealand has been heading down a no-exit street\u2014economically, socially, and psychologically. We have been penalising hard-working families, struggling to keep their heads above water, with higher costs and higher taxes. We have been strangling business with red tape, making it harder for them to hire staff, and miring them in a field of regulatory uncertainty. We have been downgrading the education system, creating meaningless qualifications, giving kids poor work habits, and loading teachers with responsibilities that should rest with families. For too long we have had a culture where the State thinks it knows what is right for every family, and for every business; a culture where every social problem is renamed a condition that people should not be held accountable for; a culture where violent offenders seem to have greater rights than their victims. Well, that is not OK with me. I have higher aspirations for this country, and I have a strong belief that we can achieve them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EI would like to finish with the words of Sir John Hall back in 1890: \u201CWe cannot afford as a nation for [our politicians] to stand aside from the work of the nation: we need all their spirit of duty, their patience, and their energy in combating the sorrow, and sin, and want that is around us.\u201D Mr Speaker, I look forward to serving the people of Selwyn and Aotearoa, for as long as they allow me the privilege of representing them. I thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022 data-id=\u002297faa4677d0b4b6aa25a5692be9872c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297faa4677d0b4b6aa25a5692be9872c0\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I begin my maiden speech today by offering congratulations on your election as Speaker of this great institution. I also congratulate my new colleagues, the Deputy Speaker, Lindsay Tisch, and Assistant Speakers Eric Roy and Rick Barker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI pay tribute to our Prime Minister, John Key, in the way that he has led the country since the election on 8 November. Many, many people in my electorate of Rotorua have told me that this is the type of leadership they voted for, and the change they want. I also paint a glowing tribute to the National Party president, Judy Kirk. Judy is an exceptional person, and many of us were helped to be here today by her hard work and dedication. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI praise the central North Island chair of the National Party, Jo Stewart, and thank her for standing on the side of the road with me waving placards during our campaign. In the streets of London, as on the sports fields of Munster, New Zealand has a reputation for reward for hard work. I thank my campaign team for their hard work over the past year: my electoral chairman, Ian Patchell, who is here today; my campaign chairman, councillor Mike McVicker; my finance agent, Don McFarlane; Ian McLean for his great wisdom and guidance; and the many, many others who were responsible for our success in Rotorua this year. I also acknowledge the people who have travelled from Rotorua to be here today, and thank Neil for the unfettered access to his fridge during the campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI make special mention of a very special person\u2014my father-in-law, Ron Wattam. Ron and my mother-in-law, Margaret, live in Cromwell, and they came to stay with us in Rotorua for a week about 6 months ago, and they are still there. Ron worked from early in the morning until late in the evening, removing great moustaches from my hoardings. I say to the Prime Minister that the people of Whakarewarewa believe that I look better with a moustache than he does. I report that bakeries in other electorates should not bother entering the national pie contest next year, because I can vouch for the pies made in Maket\u016B. I know this for a fact, because I consumed nearly 500 of them during my campaign this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI pay tribute to the Hon Steve Chadwick, across the House\u2014a worthy opponent who dealt with the issues on the campaign trail, and fought a clean campaign. Mrs Chadwick has great affection for Rotorua; I am grateful that she has offered for us to work together over the next 3 years to advance the interests of the people of Rotorua, and I accept this offer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EIf I had forgotten it, I was certainly reminded during this year\u2019s campaign that my family is the most important thing to me in this world. My ambition as a member of Parliament, the things I want to do for my community, and the reason I want more violent criminals and drug dealers locked away for longer are all because I have an overwhelming desire to protect my family and offer my family opportunity. On issues of conscience in this House, I will be guided by what I want for my four small children, and by whether they will grow up to be proud of their father, based upon his decisions and how he voted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EMy wife Nadene and I have been have been blessed with four outstanding children: Joshua, who is 10; Samuel, who is 8; Caelen, who is 6; and my daughter, the perfect one, Ana-Kiera, who is 4. Joshua, Sam, and Caelen attend Lynmore School in Rotorua, and have told me how excited they were to see their dad on TV today. I must for a moment speak of the great love and understanding of a truly exceptional and long-suffering woman\u2014that is, my wife, Nadene. Nadene and I have been married for 14 years this year, and the last 14 years have been a joy\u2014well, at least for me! And never could I have imagined that I might complement somebody so well. Without Nadene\u2019s support, understanding, and perseverance as a wife and as a mother, my life would have been much more ordinary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EIt is important to remember one\u2019s origins. I am proud to say to this House that I was born in Rotorua, as was my mother before me, and I am the son of a school principal with a lifelong commitment to improving children\u2019s lives. When I was born my parents lived in Reporoa, and my father drove a school bus each morning before teaching children how to read and write. The school bus in Reporoa is no longer driven by a teacher, and, sadly, early next year it may no longer be based in the district\u2014and this is not right. I thank my parents, Roger and Dawn, for sharing this day with me. I had a great childhood and, against frequent demands for retribution from my siblings, do not ever remember my father raising his hand against me in anger. My two brothers, Tim and Steven, are extremely hard-working, successful New Zealanders. They are good fathers, and they are great brothers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI grew up in Taup\u014D and attended Tauhara College there, and Wesley College in Pukekohe. I am sure that the honourable Minister Paula Bennett would agree that my school in Taup\u014D was better than her school in Taup\u014D! In my younger years I had many jobs. I cleaned cars, I cut firewood in the bush, and I worked for Carter Holt in its sawmill. But, mainly, I was like many young New Zealanders: I loved fishing, I enjoyed hunting, and I played rugby with a passion. I had little interest in politics, and I am not sure that education was as important to me as it should have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EMy journey to this Chamber, as for many of us, was not without detours. I have spent much of my adult life outside of New Zealand. I have worked in one of the world\u2019s largest bureaucracies, in and around the European institutions in Belgium. At that time few, if any, New Zealanders had worked in the European Parliament politically. As a result I am no fan of bureaucracy, and to quote a former President of the European Commission, Jacques Delors: \u201CI firmly believe that governments should do less, but what they do, they must do better.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI have owned a business where, on a daily basis, we balanced the demands of finding and keeping good staff with the need to remain competitive and productive. I have great sympathy for every New Zealander who will fight to survive in the coming months and years as the world\u2019s economy struggles to change. I do not subscribe to the view that employers are bad people, yet I accept that employees must be afforded rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI have experience of diplomacy. In 2000 I travelled to Cotonou in Benin to attend the signing of a development and trade agreement between Europe and the countries of Africa, the Caribbean, and the Pacific Islands. There I met the Foreign Minister of the Cook Islands and the Premier of Niue. Over months, these two countries decided to establish diplomatic representation to the European Union in Brussels. I was honoured to be asked to represent those two beautiful countries as their ambassador to Europe. I declare an interest: in 2005 I was awarded honorary Cook Islands nationality by the Government and people of the Cook Islands. I am proud to stand here today and say to the people of New Zealand that I am a Cook Islander, and I send greetings to my friends in Rarotonga: kia orana. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EAfter many years in Europe, my wife and I were faced with an important decision\u2014a decision that would decide the very people our children would grow to become. Our choice was between living a life different from that of our childhoods or embracing the very things that make New Zealanders unique. It was not a choice between a life in Brussels, where it always rains, and a life in Wellington, where it never does. During my campaign I met a man in Rotorua while I was door-knocking who wanted to talk to me about how to keep young people out of trouble, and I was impressed by this man. He had been a gang member for much of his life; he had served time in prison. He said that he had never voted because he just did not care, but when he last came out of prison he decided to change. He wanted to change because of love for his family, and he wanted a different life for his children. He left the gang, he got a job, and he now works with the community. His children will have a brighter future, and in future when I am faced with decisions that affect New Zealanders I will think of this man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI want for a moment to reflect upon the country that we live in. Many years ago New Zealand society was based upon the structure of the family. Neighbours knew each other and they liked each other. Rural communities were strong and perhaps life was simpler. When a school needed a new swimming pool\u2014and schools used to have swimming pools\u2014or a small community needed a hall, funds were raised to buy timber and cement, and people came together to build these things. Today funds are raised for resource consent and for development levies, and many of our children no longer know how to catch a fish or climb a tree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EThe Rotorua electorate is an exceptional place and it is reflective of much of New Zealand, from our beautiful lakes\u2014and we have many in Rotorua\u2014to Mount Tarawera and Ngongotah\u0101, and to the trees of the central North Island. Indeed, Nick Smith and I were known to hug such trees during the early part of our campaign this year, on the foreshore of Lake Tikitapu. We have great beaches at Maket\u016B and Pukehina, and some of the best saltwater and freshwater fishing in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EMy electorate is truly a place of vast opportunity. We are rich in culture and M\u0101oridom is strong in this region. I believe M\u0101ori culture to be my culture, because I was born in this country. Kawerau and Murupara are communities where the people are proud, and where they have achieved together. Kawerau is the smallest council district in New Zealand, and we should learn from its commitment and emulate its successes in other parts of this land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI lay claim to the following claims on behalf of the people of the Rotorua electorate. Rotorua is the tourism capital of New Zealand. Next year the Bay of Plenty will celebrate the upgrading of the Rotorua airport to international standard. This airport will be a gateway to the Bay and will provide benefit to the many towns and cities in our region. Visitors come to Rotorua expecting the very best service. They want memorable and unique experiences, and they want to eat and drink, and go shopping. In parts of our country this is possible, but in Rotorua over Easter it is not. If we are serious about tourism in this country, if we are to embrace the benefits of increased visitor numbers, then we need to change. The message that we send from this tourism capital is \u201CDon\u2019t come to Rotorua over Easter; it is closed.\u201D We need to change this message to fully embrace the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EThe Rotorua electorate is also the forestry capital of New Zealand. Engineering, trucking, and transport innovation all play a vital role in our local economy. I believe that forestry has importance to our future; the way to meet our international environmental commitment is to plant more trees and then to process those trees in this country\u2014to add value to them here. We must send a clear signal to the forestry industry that as a Parliament we offer support. I am fully committed to working with the forestry sector and to all those whose livelihoods are dependent upon it for the future of my electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EFollowing boundary changes my electorate is also the kiwifruit capital of New Zealand. Our kiwifruit are impressive. They are large, they are sought after by international markets, and some of them are even shaved. The kiwifruit sector, like others, has suffered over recent years, but the development of infrastructure in the Bay of Plenty and an unrelenting focus on productivity will help the kiwifruit farmers of Te Matai Road. I will work closely with them to ensure that their industry is managed as they wish it to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EDuring her maiden speech yesterday my colleague Melissa Lee spoke of the horrific death of little Nia Glassie in Rotorua. It would be easier to speak of only the good things about my home and to ignore the problems as if they had not happened, but that is not my way. It concerns me that the very people who should love and cherish our young the most\u2014Nia\u2019s parents and grandparents\u2014treated her life so cheaply. The action of those found to be responsible for Nia\u2019s death was evil, and I know of no other way to describe it. Justice for Nia Glassie will be done only when horrific child abuse in all parts of New Zealand stops. Today I challenge all communities of New Zealand to care more for our children. It is a privilege to be a parent; it is not a right. It will take more than reports and inquiries to stop this cycle of violence\u2014child abusers do not read our reports\u2014it will take consequence and personal responsibility. It will take each of us, as a community, to stand up and say that violence of any type is not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003ETwo weeks ago I met a small boy who attends \u014Ctamar\u0101kau School on the edge of my electorate in the Eastern Bay of Plenty. He asked me what my job was and I explained that the job of an MP was to represent, and to be a loud, clear voice on behalf of, the people of his electorate. I also said that more than anything I believe the job of a member of Parliament is to listen, not just to talk, and, quoting a Greek philosopher, said: \u201CThis should be easy, as I have two ears and only one mouth. I will be able to listen twice as much as I talk.\u201D This small boy studied me. He looked at me and he said: \u201CSir, I think you will be a great MP. I can see two of your ears.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003ETo be a member of this House is a privilege, and I pledge to remember this each and every day I am here. It is an opportunity to work hard to help others, and to make New Zealand and my home, Rotorua, better. The day that I forget this privilege will be the day that it is time for me to leave this place. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker, and I thank the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022 data-id=\u0022545fe5844c2149aea230fa7ef708bca0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022545fe5844c2149aea230fa7ef708bca0\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EPou hirihiri, pou ramarama \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003ETiaho i roto, m\u0101rama i roto. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003ET\u0113nei te pou \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003ETe pou ka eke \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003ETe pou kai a koe n\u0101 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EKo te pou o \u0113nei k\u014Drero \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003ETihei mauri ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E[Pillar that recites spells and gleams,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EIs radiant and lucid within.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EThis pillar that controls and consumes you,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EAnd is the pillar of these utterances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u2019Tis the sneeze of life.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EI rise for the first time in this House, proud to be a Labour member of Parliament, inspired by the democratic tradition this House represents, and humbled by the great parliamentarians who have come before. I congratulate you, Mr Assistant Speaker, on your election, I acknowledge the Speech from the Throne, and I look forward to contributing to a robust Opposition that fulfils its constitutional duty for the next 3 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EAs I look around the walls of this debating chamber and reflect on the battles waged and lives lost by thousands of New Zealanders to help forge our young nation, I am moved by the simple but brilliant concept of this House. Like the countless, often nameless, people who have served and sacrificed for New Zealand in war, we too are servants of something bigger\u2014something grander; something bolder. We come from varied backgrounds, but we all are united in a goal to collectively serve. At the end of our times here, some of us will be remembered, but most of us will not. Regardless, we all will have served our nation, and for that I greet every member of this House, regardless of whichever side of the aisle he or she sits, and I look forward to working with all members, and to disagreeing strenuously with some. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EIf there is one thing that unites us all in this House, I would hope it is the belief we can make New Zealand the best it can be. It seems a minor miracle that this little collection of islands at the bottom of the Pacific with a mere 4 million people can sustain a successful, modern nation State that boasts some of the best quality of life the world can offer. What an implausible but heroic project it is, bringing together the descendants of the first settlers who, 1,000 years ago, crossed the Pacific by waka to this, the last significant land mass in the world to be settled by humans, and also the 19th century Europeans who sailed to the other side of the planet to build a new life free from class exploitation, and the 20th century Boeing arrivals who fled poverty and oppression, or who were simply seeking a better life for their children. We are all united by a desire to create a better world, and the only difference between us is when our waka touched these shores. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EThis common bond created a whakapapa of pioneering social reform: the Parihaka prophets of Te Whiti and Tohu, who offered a strategy of non-violent action to resolve previously lethal disputes; Kate Sheppard and the suffragettes, securing the vote for women; Richard Seddon and the Liberals, bringing in ground-breaking social and industrial legislation; Michael Joseph Savage, creating one of the world\u2019s most comprehensive social security systems in the 1930s; Peter Fraser, at the UN in 1945, helping to draft the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; Norm Kirk, in the 1970s, standing up for a nuclear-free Pacific; and the Treaty settlement process started by Kirk and Matiu Rata, a unique effort at post-colonial reconciliation over more than 3\u00BD decades. There is much to be proud of, and to draw inspiration from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003ELet us not forget our other nation builders: the entrepreneurs, the scientists, public servants, our artists, educators, sportspeople, the men and women who worked the land, the workers who built the roads, raised the kids, and fought the wars when we asked them to do so, and those who clean the offices, run the footy and netball teams, look after our older and frail New Zealanders, and work in the kitchens, shops, and factories. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EIn spite of our national tendency to self-doubt, we know we are capable of great things. I believe that to achieve great things there are a few things that we must do first. I believe we must unleash the talents of all of our citizens. This will take great health and education systems, and a shared belief that unemployment, incarceration, and ill health are above all a waste of human potential that we cannot afford. I believe we must recognise there are some things we do more efficiently and fairly together, rather than privately. Smart, strong Government can deliver the essentials: health care, cost-effective social insurance, education, and superannuation. These social supports mean we all get the best possible start in life, and after that it is up to each of us to apply our talent and hard work. This, to me, is modern socialism. This, to me, is what it means to be in a modern New Zealand Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EI reject the notion that Government is a burden. In a global market place, where billions of dollars can be moved across borders at the click of a mouse, it is easy for the big to get bigger, at the expense of the vulnerable. Rules are needed for fair competition and to make markets work. Government can have a role in owning strategically important enterprises. I believe we must constantly look for ways to help our firms to grow and create high-value jobs, and seize the opportunities in global markets. We have to invest more in research and development and science, based on our comparative advantages. We have to keep building the infrastructure for a 21st century economy, and we must meet head-on the challenge of sustainability. If we win, we can continue to do business in a post-carbon world, and enjoy a truly clean and green New Zealand. If we lose, it does not bear thinking about. Is there a New Zealander who does not want his or her children or grandchildren to once again be able to swim and fish at our beaches and rivers and lakes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003ENone of this will happen unless we strike a deal with each other, based on the common good: a deal that says if we work hard and play by the rules, we will have every opportunity to get ahead and enjoy the fruits of our labours, and that we pay our fair share of taxes because they are the price of a decent society and the only way to truly protect the Kiwi way of life: the fair go for all. They are the price of a decent New Zealand, where the local school provides a great education, where access to health care is not determined by the size of someone\u2019s wallet, where people who are injured at work or play are looked after, and where no one needs to live in a gated community to feel safe. That is why I am proud to stand here today as a Labour member of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EOne of the issues we need to talk about is the constitution. That conversation about our nation\u2019s destiny must be framed by the republic, and not by the constitutional trappings of our colonial past. We have been far too shy of having this debate. But as our nation rapidly changes its make-up, its ties to England will become even more strained and irrelevant. As I look around this Chamber I see the most diverse House in the history of this institution, and the last thing that I think of is the Queen on the other side of the world. It is not a debate we should leave for the Australians to have first, then, by some kind of osmosis, follow in New Zealand. We must have this discussion on our own terms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EIt is a journey that I hope to play a role in as a first generation New Zealander, the fourth child of Sam and Gillian Twyford, who arrived fresh off the plane at Whenuapai shortly before I was born in 1963, as part of the great post-war British diaspora. My mother, who will be watching this speech on television, more than anyone made me who I am. She brought love and hard work to the task of raising five children on her own. We were never what you would call poor, but to put jam on our bread she cleaned other people\u2019s houses and worked the night shift at a local rest home. In mid-life a stroke left her disabled, but she recovered amazingly and has lived independently for the last 23 years, thanks to her grit and drive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EAlthough mother is the core of my being, I trace my political awakening to a couple of important moments. As a fifth former at Westlake Boys High School, I listened on a transistor radio at lunchtime to a news broadcast of the police and army evicting Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua from Bastion Point on the orders of then Prime Minister, Rob Muldoon. It struck me as shameful that a democratic nation could send in the might of the State to evict these people from their land. The second was the visit to my school by Michael Lapsley, a New Zealand Anglican priest who was part of the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa. A parcel bomb from the South African intelligence services blinded him and blew his hands off. I wagged a class to hear him speak to a group of older students, and the story of his courageous refusal to compromise his beliefs before the unyielding power of the State changed my life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EMy moral and political compass took its bearings through the economic and social turbulence of the 1980s. Like thousands of other New Zealanders I marched against apartheid, blockaded our harbours against nuclear-armed ships, and door-knocked for the election of the fourth Labour Government. Its independent foreign policy, long overdue social and environmental reforms, and progress on the Treaty were cause for elation. But, as for many, the sweet taste of social progress turned to ashes in my mouth. An economic crisis became the pretext for an ideological blitzkrieg that tried to impose a commercial model on almost every facet of our nation\u2019s life. Change was needed, but by God we paid the price in terms of poverty, inequality, loss of productive capacity in our firms, and damaged generations. We are still paying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EIt is possible, I believe, to run an open economy that welcomes good foreign investment while also protecting what is good and valuable about our landscape, our institutions, and our way of life. It is possible to have a business-friendly environment while respecting the rights of workers and treating them with dignity. It is possible to celebrate success and wealth creation while also giving a hand up to those who need it. It is possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EDuring the dark years of the Douglas-Richardson experiments, I refocused my energies on humanitarianism and development, first as the founding executive director of Oxfam New Zealand, then as the advocacy director of Oxfam International, based in Washington DC. We gave many thousands of New Zealanders the chance to help in a practical way to make our planet a fairer place. We smuggled medical supplies into Bougainville through a military blockade, so mothers who had fled the fighting by going into the bush would not die from preventable deaths in childbirth. We funded loans to Ethiopian farmers driven from the land by famine, so they could start businesses. We provided legal support for widows who lost their husbands and children in the Guatemalan civil war, so human rights abusers would be brought to justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EI tell members these things to illustrate my view that we all need to stand up against what we see is wrong in our communities. Not to act makes us part of the problem. My latter years with Oxfam taught me that one cannot achieve lasting change without politicians who are prepared to be courageous and to take risks to do what is right. As I lobbied the UN Security Council against the invasion of Iraq, Helen Clark\u2019s stand against the Bush-Blair-Howard war made me proud to be a New Zealander. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EAs a social democrat it is hard to underline enough how important Helen Clark and Michael Cullen and their generation in Labour politics have been to our hopes for this country. They rescued our party and rebuilt it. They brought our nation\u2019s politics back to a better, more sensible place. They reconstructed a working model of social democracy anchored in Labour values. For that, I say thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EI want to conclude by thanking those who have travelled with me so far on this journey: my colleagues in journalism, my fellow members of the Service and Food Workers Union and the wider labour movement, my Oxfam mates both here and abroad, and numerous party colleagues. I want to single out my campaign manager, Barbara Ward, and the members of the North Shore Labour Electorate Committee who have campaigned alongside me for two elections, particularly Frances and Bill Bell. And most of all today, for my partner, Joanna, and our son, Harry, I say this: this land is our land, and nothing is too good for the future generations we will pass it on to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, e ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e ng\u0101 rangatira maha kua r\u016Bpeke mai nei ki raro i te tuanui o t\u0113nei o t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora mai an\u014D t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E[So to the powers, languages, and the many leaders gathered beneath the roof of this House of ours, greetings to you, greetings to you, and greetings once again to all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022 data-id=\u00229a603a0c458a47c3b7f7bf720646ae46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a603a0c458a47c3b7f7bf720646ae46\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Whakarongo mai, whakarongo mai. Whakarongo mai ki t\u0113nei uri o Ng\u0101tokimatawhaorua e t\u016B atu r\u0101 i te \u0101kau o Ip\u012Bpiri. E tuwhera atu r\u0101 te awa o Taum\u0101rere-herehere-i-te-riri. Ka rere m\u0101 \u014Ct\u016Bihu, tae ki ng\u0101 rekereke o Tapukewharawhara. Raro i a Puketohunoa, ko P\u016Bhangahau, takoto kau ng\u0101 k\u014Diwi t\u016Bpuna, ara mai he t\u0113t\u0113kura. Ka hiki te manawa i te kakara reka o Te K\u0101retu. Ng\u0101 kaitiaki o te ahik\u0101 ko Ng\u0101ti Manu. Tiheiw\u0101 mauri ora. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa i whakarauikatia mai i raro i te t\u0101huhu o t\u014D t\u0101tou nei Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 hoki koutou e t\u014Dku wh\u0101nau wh\u0101nui kua patu mai i ng\u0101 huarahi, mai i ng\u0101 pito tawhiti o te motu ki te tat\u016B ki konei, hei tautoko i te kaupapa o te r\u0101 nei. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou \u014D t\u0101tou mate maha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003E[Hearken, listen to my words. Take heed of this descendant of Ng\u0101tokimatawhaorua. I stand on the shore of Ip\u012Bpiri at the mouth of my river Taum\u0101rere-herehere-i-te-riri. It flows by \u014Ct\u016Bihu, and reaches the heels of Tapukewharawhara. There at the base of Puketohunoa is P\u016Bhangahau, the final resting place of the ancestors. A new frond has arisen. My heart is imbued by the sweet scent of Te K\u0101retu. Ng\u0101ti Manu are guardians of the homelands. Sneeze, \u2019tis the breath of life. Greetings to us all assembled here under the ridgepole of our House. Greetings to you, my extended family who set out on the highways from distant points of the land to be here to support today\u2019s event. And greetings to you, our many dead.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EMr Assistant Speaker, I acknowledge and congratulate you on your election to your position. I also acknowledge the leaders of the Labour Party, the Hon Phil Goff and the Hon Annette King. I look forward to working with them both and with the Labour caucus, and to making a contribution to our team and nation. Also, I would like to acknowledge and congratulate the Rt Hon Helen Clark on her formidable leadership of the Labour Party and, indeed, on having been the Prime Minister of New Zealand for the last 9 years. I thank Helen for the way she honoured my people of Ng\u0101ti Manu earlier this year, when she visited our valley and marae and endorsed my candidacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EWith affection I acknowledge my family and friends\u2014those who have been able to traverse the length of Te Ika-a-M\u0101ui to be here, especially my wife, Moira, and my father, P\u0101napa, as well as those who could not be here, including my children, Kelly, Billie, and R\u0113weti; my mother, Glenys; my brothers, Patrick and Greg; my sister, Sonya; my brothers-in-law and sisters-in-law; my mother-in-law and father-in-law, Tom and Raewyn Hoddle; my numerous nephews and nieces, aunties and uncles, and cousins; and my wh\u0101nau from Ng\u0101ti Manu. I also acknowledge my many tribal connections in the mid-north to Te Kapotai, Ng\u0101ti Hine, Ng\u0101puhi whanui, Ng\u0101ti Wai, and Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua. I acknowledge in the far north the iwi Ng\u0101ti Kur\u012B, Te Aup\u014Duri, Ng\u0101i Takoto, Ng\u0101ti Kahu and Te Rarawa, and also those of my iwi further south\u2014in particular Ng\u0101i Tai, Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu, and Ng\u0101ti Raukawa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EI am honoured to have stood for Labour in the seat of Te Tai Tokerau, and although disappointed not to have won it I acknowledge my whanaunga Hone Harawira, who was successful\u2014t\u0113n\u0101 koe e Hone. I also congratulate and acknowledge all other M\u0101ori members of Parliament and hope that M\u0101ori will see the benefits of our presence here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EI hail from the valley of K\u0101retu. Across the road from our marae stands Puketohunoa, one of our ancestral maunga. On the summit of Puketohunoa once dwelt my tupuna, Wh\u0113toi P\u014Dmare. From his whare named T\u012Bhema he had sweeping panoramas of the valley and across to Ruapekapeka, the site of the last battle of the northern land wars. At the foot of our maunga, Puketohunoa, flows our K\u0101retu creek, which runs seaward and connects with our tupuna awa known as Taum\u0101rere-herehere-i-te-riri. One of our Ng\u0101ti Manu waiata connects these three features to one another in the lines: \u201CT\u016B ana m\u0101tou ki runga o Puketohunoa, ka titiro atu ki Ruapekapeka, ka hoki mai ki te puna o \u014Dku m\u0101tua e, e karekare nei e, ko Taum\u0101rere.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003E[\u201CWe stand on Puketohunoa and look upon Ruapekapeka and back again to the rippling waters of our parents\u2019 bathing pool, it is Taum\u0101rere.\u201D]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EIf one was to drift in the current of, first, the K\u0101retu creek past the foot of Puketohunoa, then into the flow of Taum\u0101rere, one would eventually pass by the cradle of our nation, Waitangi, where as we all know in February 1840 a number of M\u0101ori chiefs, including my tupuna Wh\u0113toi P\u014Dmare, drew their moko on to a piece of paper that is now known as the Treaty of Waitangi. I would like to believe that when my tupuna P\u014Dmare etched the shape of his facial tattoo on to that piece of paper, he did it in the hope that his actions would ensure the future prosperity of his wh\u0101nau, his hap\u016B, and his iwi. The world has changed, 168 years later, beyond what my tupuna could have imagined. But what has not changed, at least in my wh\u0101nau, is that in the six generations since, from generation to generation through to my grandparents, parents, and my brothers, sister, and myself, is the understanding that our actions today leave a legacy for generations to come and must contribute to the ongoing prosperity of wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EThe prosperity of all M\u0101ori is necessary if we are to fulfil the words of our great Tai Tokerau rangatira Sir James H\u0113nare, when he once said: \u201CIt is preposterous that any Maori should aspire to become a poor pakeha when their true destiny, prescribed by the Creator, is to become a great Maori.\u201D What makes M\u0101ori great? I believe all M\u0101ori who achieve their potential or beyond and bolster the standing of their wh\u0101nau and community achieve a measure of greatness. As a former principal it was immensely rewarding to witness the joy and satisfaction on the face of wh\u0101nau when their children achieved. I was acutely aware, though, of how thin those ranks of achievement are in many of our schools. New Zealand history shows that M\u0101ori can succeed in the face of adversity. But this success needs to become the norm rather than the exception. The greatness of a nation is linked to the distinction of its people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EI come to the House seeking to make a contribution that enriches our nation through expanding the ranks of those M\u0101ori families who seek educational achievement. The lessons of the chalkface have value and ought to be borne in mind as we debate how to innovate, fund, and improve our system of education. Being a great achiever begins for our children when they enjoy aroha\u2014that is, unconditional love from parents and caregivers who realise that raising children is not a right to do as one likes but an obligation to the next generation. Educational engagement and achievement is vital to M\u0101ori greatness and prosperity. We will achieve more with one full generation of highly educated M\u0101ori than we will from the last 168 years of grievance. We need M\u0101ori to be educated so that we become the people of influence and the decision makers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EI have spent 20 years at the chalkface in education. I enjoyed a 14-year career as a principal, and am especially proud of the achievements of the board of trustees, staff, and students of Kait\u0101ia Intermediate School, which in 7 years saw a school turn from almost total academic failure to academic success. We proved at Kait\u0101ia Intermediate School that M\u0101ori do not need to wait decades or generations to see improvements to M\u0101ori achievement and well-being at school. It can happen almost immediately. With the right approach by principals, teachers, bureaucrats, politicians, and others within the system, M\u0101ori can, and will, make immense and rapid gains in achievement. Those will lead on to gains in M\u0101ori health and life expectancy, financial well-being, leadership positions and influence, and being able to collectively and fully contribute to our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EWe must ensure our education system engages M\u0101ori from their first day of school right through until their last day at end of year 13, and on to a lifetime of striving for knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. For many M\u0101ori disengagement from the educational system is but the first step in disengagement from society in general. M\u0101ori will never achieve greatness or beyond our potential unless we are educationally successful. Therefore it is imperative, if M\u0101ori are to achieve great things, that we get the education system right for M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EConversely, we, M\u0101ori, have to realise one of our greatest weaknesses is to blame the system. We know that history has conspired against us. We know a heck of a lot happened to our people that has set our progress and development back and has resulted in our struggle to prosper and achieve greatness. But as critical as I am of those who deny the effects of the damage the system has done to M\u0101ori over the last 168 years, I am equally critical of M\u0101ori who blame only the system for their own failings. Do we, as a people, have the courage to accept responsibility for our lives? It is time for us to collectively step up and, as we say, para te huarahi\u2014blaze a trail. I have sat in hui where the talk has all been about the injustices, the grievances, and the excessive navel-gazing that stagnates the mind and saps the energy and the soul. It is time we stopped wallowing in self-pity and instead looked for solutions. It is time our hui were all forward thinking, positive, and solutions based. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003ELast Wednesday I attended a seminar where a group of M\u0101ori gathered to discuss information and communications technology. These people were educated, professional, and motivated. There was no self-pity, there was no talk of grievance, and there was no talk of injustice. There were problems and frustrations, but they searched for solutions. We need to replicate that sense of purpose and mission in our hui, our marae, and our homes. Blaming the system implies we are too weak as a people to help ourselves\u2014that we are victims. Bad stuff has happened, but we must cease to be victims. M\u0101ori need to sort ourselves out. Education is the passport, but we need to put ourselves on the flight to the future. Obviously policy, process, and ideology are a part of the journey and it will happen with a collaboration of the spirit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EA kaum\u0101tua said to me earlier this year that the problem with our M\u0101ori youth is actually us, the adults. His words to me were: \u201CWe need to lay off our youth and sort ourselves out.\u201D If we want our M\u0101ori youth to act in a certain way to achieve personal greatness, then they need M\u0101ori adults to be the role models and demonstrate how that is to be done. If we are serious about wanting to prosper and provide hope for our kids then M\u0101ori adults need to step up. We M\u0101ori men need to step up. It is said that being a male is a matter of birth, but being a man is a matter of choice. Likewise, being a M\u0101ori is a matter of birth, but being a M\u0101ori achiever is a matter of choice. We M\u0101ori men must have the courage to lead our wh\u0101nau and hap\u016B towards prosperity and greatness. We are renowned for our warrior spirit, but it is time that warrior spirit manifested itself in new ways. We need to replace anger, grievance, and self-pity with dignity, determination, resilience, and forgiveness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EI conclude by stating that I have hope for the future: the future of my children and the future for us as M\u0101ori. I believe that by lifting M\u0101ori educational achievement and by us as M\u0101ori having the courage to take control of our present we will as a people achieve prosperity and the future greatness that is our destiny. That road to greatness has been paved with trials and tribulations. But those trials and tribulations never stopped Sir James H\u0113nare, a boy from M\u014Dtatau deep in the heart of Ng\u0101ti Hine, from standing as an example of how our destiny as M\u0101ori, prescribed by the Creator, is to achieve greatness. I look forward to the contributions I can make to this forty-ninth Parliament as an educator, a politician, and a M\u0101ori, for the benefit of the whole nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira t\u0101tou m\u0101, huri noa i t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare, rau rangatira m\u0101, e te wh\u0101nau, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003E[So to all of us throughout our House, the many leaders and the family, greetings to you, greetings to you, and greetings to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EWaiata\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d31ac14455c34ca387c979badc83dad9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d31ac14455c34ca387c979badc83dad9\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E May I add my congratulations to you, Mr Speaker, on your election to your position. I look forward to your guidance and wisdom as my colleagues and I find our feet in this place. I am proud, honoured, and humbled to enter this House as the member for Palmerston North and a member of the Labour caucus. Unlike my esteemed predecessors Steve Maharey and Trevor de Cleene, I am not a native of Palmerston North, nor did I spend my formative years in the same State house on Savage Crescent where, coincidentally, that pair grew up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2c904e09d8f449199b1ba6e79a7d9bd\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Together?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9134d5e81e24477946d9154a3ca7118\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Not together. My childhood was spent a world away on a beef farm near Waiuku, south of Auckland. For me, the decision to live in Palmerston North was a conscious one that was made without the weight of parochial loyalty that I now feel towards my home town\u2014and Palmerston North is my home. I have lived there for close to 11 years, I met my wife there, and my children were born there. Over the last 10 years all of my immediate family have followed me to Palmerston North, and it is my desire that our family will have a close connection with the city for many, many years to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003ELike my relationship with Palmerston North, my relationship with the Labour Party is not one founded on generations of family loyalty. Exactly how a privately educated boy from a beef farm, who had Bill Birch as his local MP, grew up to become active in the student and Labour movements still has many people somewhat perplexed, not least my parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EThat is a story for another day, but the reason I joined the Labour Party is quite simple: its values match my own. I believe in communities. I believe in decent pay for good work. I believe in strong public services, and that the State is still relevant and necessary in a modern economy. I believe in freedom of choice and individual responsibility. I also believe that we each have a responsibility to work in one another\u2019s best interests, and not just our own. Most of all, I believe in empowering people. That means investing in our communities and in each other. It certainly does not mean withdrawing support from those who are the most vulnerable and at the margins of our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EThese are values that were taught to me by my parents who, I am pleased to say, are watching us from the gallery today. Everything they did for their two growing sons was done out of a desire to give us the very best opportunities in life. It is fair to say that these days my family and I do not exactly see eye to eye politically. In fact, it seems it caused quite a dilemma for my parents when choosing between voting for their son or for the local National Party candidate. My parents are lateral thinkers and they came up with a novel, if not slightly drastic, solution. They moved out of the electorate. I am sure Simon Power will be relieved to know that he has two more loyal supporters. Nevertheless, I know that I would not be here today if it were not for the love and encouragement that pervaded my childhood, and for that I thank them both. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EThe city where my wife Clare and I have chosen to raise our own children is a bustling, vibrant regional centre. It has a robust economy, thanks to a mix of public and private sector industries and services. It excels in servicing the agricultural sector of the Manawat\u016B and beyond. It excels in research, education, retail, manufacturing, and distribution. The city is full of innovative people and the work being done at Massey University, at the Fitzherbert Science Park, and in numerous small businesses in the city has the potential to put Palmerston North and New Zealand on the map as a leader in sustainable agrifood research. Such research and the teaching of the skills required to carry it out are at the heart of New Zealand\u2019s ongoing and necessary economic transformation. The public sector must support the kind of blue-skies research required to make substantial scientific advances and it is right that Governments remain committed to funding such work, as well giving our scientists the freedom to explore avenues of potential benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EHowever, it is equally important that an environment is created in which New Zealand businesses are encouraged to invest in research and development. New Zealand\u2019s private sector research and development investment is woeful by international standards. In fact, as a percentage of GDP it is one-third the OECD average. The countries ahead of us have been offering something called research and development tax credits for years. Currently 21 OECD countries are offering research and development tax credits; it is soon to be 20. Our research and development investment must improve, because New Zealand needs a private sector that is committed to research and development. As my colleague the Hon Pete Hodgson told the House last night, businesses engaged in research and development are by their nature more likely to be high growth, economically sustainable, more likely to have a commitment to staff retention, and more likely be exporters. They need skilled labour, not cheap labour. They are what this country needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EIf we are to remain on the path towards a high-wage economy, we must stay focused on what makes New Zealand unique. Part of what makes New Zealand unique is that thing we call our clean, green image. When thinking of New Zealand, most international travellers tell us that they come here to experience our lush native bush, our pristine mountain ranges, our unblemished beaches, and our pollution-free rivers. The marketing is perfect: 100 percent pure New Zealand. Unfortunately, the reality does not quite match the hype. But it is not just the tourism industry that relies on clean, green New Zealand. The quality of our exports will increasingly be judged by the environmental impact of their production. Yes, we already do well by international standards, but given the distance to our markets and the misleading attention given to food miles, there is increasing pressure to be cleaner and greener than everybody else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EBut the arguments in favour of environmental sustainability are about much, much more than the economic imperatives. I am immensely proud to be a member of the party that led the Government into finally facing up to the difficult challenge of taking just the first few steps towards reducing emissions. I am equally dismayed to be a member of a House of Representatives that plans to stall the progress of the emissions trading scheme. To me, the sustainability question can be boiled down to this: in what state will we leave our one and only planet for future generations? Will we hand them the legacy of blind greed, of an environment so devastated that there is no foundation for a sound economy? Or will we take action now so that our children, our grandchildren, and our great-grandchildren can enjoy the lifestyle we naively take for granted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EWe should also ask ourselves what kind of society we would like our children and grandchildren to inherit. Palmerston North is a great place to raise a family. It is a safe, culturally diverse city blessed with tremendous schools, an effervescent arts culture, and outstanding sporting facilities. The opportunities to learn, work, and play seem boundless. It is a place where children thrive. Sadly, though, so many of our families are unable to create the environments in which children prosper. Some of the reasons are financial, and I ask members to take note of the advice I have received from the Palmerston North Salvation Army and Methodist Social Services, that their food banks are now increasingly being frequented by low-income working families that are struggling to make ends meet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EBut money\u2014or the lack of it\u2014is not the root of all the challenges for our young families. When I listen to the principals of our primary schools, there is a clear theme in what they are telling me. When they see a child walk through the door at age 5, they can tell straight away how stable his or her home environment is and, by extension, the likelihood of that child\u2019s academic and social success, and the likelihood that he or she will go on to be a productive and valuable member of the community. We can demand all we want from our schools: to teach our children how to read and write, the fundamentals of maths, science, history, and geography, how to use a computer, and how to access the Internet. We can expect our schools to provide opportunities for children to explore their artistic and sporting talents, and we can even ask them to teach civics and instil discipline. We can ask our schools to do all that, but if our children then go home to an environment where learning is not supported, where there is little or no adult supervision, where violence is a day-to-day occurrence, and where there is no food on the table, then all our demands on our schools are for naught. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EI am not saying our nation is riddled with bad parents. I know that the overwhelming majority of parents want the very best for their children. Parents who are struggling want to give their children the opportunities they might not have had themselves. But often they just do not know how. What many of our parents desperately need is guidance and support. We need role models to help set our parents and our children on the path towards achieving their own goals. How can we help? What can we do? Is there a place for the Government to offer assistance or do we baulk at the idea of interfering bureaucrats moving into our homes and telling us how to raise our children? If that is what I was advocating, then I would expect an outright rejection, but it is not. There are already numerous organisations working within their own communities to assist the parents of young families. Te Aroha Noa Community Services is just one of several I could name in Palmerston North. Te Aroha Noa is based in Highbury, a suburb in our city that struggles to hit the news for the right reasons. Five years ago things hit rock-bottom in Highbury. Tensions between rival gangs flared and it culminated in the tragic end of a young life. The community could have chosen to turn a blind eye or to blame some outside force, but they chose instead to take ownership of the problem. They decided they needed to rebuild their community. They decided they wanted people to be proud to live in Highbury and there are now several organisations involved in achieving this splendid ambition, including the primary health provider Te Wakahuia, the Highbury Whanau Centre, and the people of Rangit\u0101ne. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EI single out Te Aroha Noa because their focus is on children and their families. In particular, it delivers the Home Interaction Programme for Parents and Youngsters\u2014HIPPY for short. This is a home-based programme that supports parents in becoming actively involved in their children\u2019s learning. Parents and children work together for 15 minutes a day with story books, puzzles, and games and the goal is to help those children become successful learners. The tutors are parents themselves who have been through the programme with their own children. They visit people in their homes, so it creates an opportunity to build community relationships. Te Aroha Noa specifically works within the Highbury community and the neighbouring communities of Takaro and Cloverlea\u2014they work in and with their own community. Some of the tutors are young mothers who have themselves struggled\u2014indeed, they are still struggling\u2014to build the life they want for their families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EEarlier this year I met three young women\u2014very inspirational. They are all mothers and all are now giving something back as tutors. They spoke of their goals and ambitions, and more important, how they planned to achieve them. One woman spoke of making Highbury violence free. I wish we could all be so bold to articulate such aspiration. My deep desire is that every parent in New Zealand would have access to the Home Interaction Programme for Parents and Youngsters, or something like it. I appreciate that significant funding is already available through the Ministry of Education but there are still so many families that the providers cannot reach and my fear is that these are exactly the families whose need is greatest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EThe Government can and should do more. It will be difficult to measure the outcomes of any spending. We are not likely to see the results for another 20 years maybe. But I say to members that proactive investment is far more cost-effective and far more valuable to our society than trying to fix the problems we are ultimately responsible for through our own inaction. We must also pay attention to the pressures placed on all families by the organisation of Western society in the 21st century. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EOur societal focal point is unarguably the workplace. Family time, community activities, and volunteering all take second place and must be fitted in around the requirements of the workplace. I believe we need to shift that focal point towards the family home, or at least promote non - workplace-based activities on to an equal footing with the workplace. There is no doubt that children do better in an environment where there is at least one adult family member available to nurture them. We ask so much of our parents and we are quick to point the finger when things go wrong. I am certain no one in this House would disagree that parenting is the most important job there is and that parents shape the future of our civilisation. The previous Government certainly acknowledged this and made incredible progress in supporting families. But we have considerably more to do to make our words anything more than empty sentiment. I suppose what I am talking about can be summed up in that clich\u00E9 phrase work-life balance, hardly something politicians are renowned for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EI am sure it is obvious just how important my own family is to me and I would briefly like to mention just how thankful I am that my wife agreed to join me on this journey. Unfortunately Clare and the kids could not be here tonight but\u2014technology willing\u2014they are watching us on the Internet from the other side of the world, which, by the way, I think is marvellous and I hope more of Parliament\u2019s public activities will be available through that medium one day. I am thankful to all the wonderful people in Palmerston North who have supported me thus far. We ran a long campaign and we faced many hurdles. But I was never alone and it was the team that truly carried the day, ably led by our campaign manager, John Shennan. It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge the support and mentoring I have received from the Hon Steve Maharey. I know he will be missed in these halls and will be remembered as a dynamic man of action who achieved lasting change in his portfolios. I once heard him described as the \u201CMinister of Everything That\u2019s Important\u201D, although I must say he showed his wisdom by never taking on the health portfolio. His return to Palmerston North as vice-chancellor of Massey University was warmly received by our community and I look forward to working with him in our new respective roles for as long as Palmerston North will have me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EI cannot count the times I have been told, since my selection as the Labour Party candidate for Palmerston North, that I have big shoes to fill. I hope this does not disappoint anyone back in my home town but I have no plans to do so. Steve Maharey may have been as well known for his fashion sense as anything else he achieved in here, but I want you all to know that I have my own shoes, they fit me very well, and I am comfortable in them. I do hope, however, that my footsteps will leave even a slight impression akin to that of my predecessor\u2019s. That would be an achievement indeed. My focus is on the future, and I expect to be judged on the effect my time here has on future generations of all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022 data-id=\u00225d97f6aec6e5456b9f2056c7a9f64947\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d97f6aec6e5456b9f2056c7a9f64947\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the House to allow the next speaker his full allocated time for his maiden statement, which will mean he will encroach into the dinner hour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d9f9419a32b408d92d7f967deb68868\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1767e674ad3444c85ab9498db5bdd36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1767e674ad3444c85ab9498db5bdd36\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Mr Speaker, I greet you and my colleagues in the name of our common spirituality, humbled as we are in the sight of the divine, whatever we each perceive this to be. I acknowledge the mana whenua on whose land this House stands. I honour my late parents, Robert and Patricia Graham, whom I and my brothers continue to miss, 25 years on. I embrace my two sons, David and Christopher, and their families. And I acknowledge, with tender love and devotion, my wife, my friend, my partner-in-life, Marilyn Moir Graham. I acknowledge the two predecessors in my family in whose footsteps I am proud to follow: the Hon Robert Graham, who served this House with distinction a century-and-a-half ago, and whose hei tiki lies here before me; and the Rt Hon Sir Douglas, whose presence on the floor of this Chamber I acknowledge today, who left such a profound legacy of dignity and vision in his ministerial career of more recent times, with whom the fraternal bond remains forever unbreakable. May their contributions prove everlasting for the future of this nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EI am proud to represent the Green Party, whose contribution to New Zealand is already considerable, with yet more to come. I acknowledge my colleagues in the party, whose collective endeavours laid the basis for our electoral success. I acknowledge, in particular, the peerless contribution to this country of Jeanette Fitzsimons. I pay tribute to the memory of Rod Donald. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EI enter this House, imbued with respect for its history, fortified by its many achievements. Let us all ensure that this forty-ninth Parliament honours this House not only with the dignity that is its due but with a foresight that empowers it to meet the far-reaching demands of our time. For it is our duty to pass on to the next generation a planet whose physical integrity enables them to advance their own part of the human story. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003ETo that end, it is my belief that this country, through a unified resolve and strength of purpose, should aspire to the attainment of two related goals: to become a sustainable country and to act as a responsible global citizen. Our human tenure on this Earth is still young. With some five millennia of political experience behind us, we stand on the shoulders of perhaps a hundred generations that have gone before, whose courage and sacrifice enable us to glimpse the future from the strategic heights where we stand today. Our generation looks back with gratitude, mindful of their accumulated trials and labour. Yet as we turn to the future, we glimpse the unprecedented challenges that lie ahead. For ours is the first generation to confront problems of a planetary scale\u2014daunting in their complexity, seemingly intractable in nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EAs our human numbers increase, our Earth-share diminishes. As our materialistic lifestyle expands, our ecological footprint grows ever larger. Humankind today, casting precaution to the wind, is recording an ecological overshoot beyond the planet\u2019s carrying capacity, anthropogenically inducing climate change of unprecedented magnitude and alarming danger. We are drawing down on Earth\u2019s natural resources, borrowing forward on the human heritage, irretrievably encroaching on our children\u2019s right to inherit the Earth in a natural and sustainable state. It is the uniquely dubious fate of our generation to have broken the eternal promise of intergenerational justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EWe in New Zealand are part of the problem, not yet of the solution. Our individual ecological footprints are three times higher than the global average, our carbon emissions almost five times higher. If we offer the world a national ecological surplus, it is not through prudent husbandry or modesty of habit on our part, but because we are simply few in number. A sustainable world, a sustainable country, requires a change in mindset. That requires a new world-view, a transformational change in individual lifestyle, a refashioned approach to governmental management. It is time we measured national success, not through mindless material growth but through genuine progress in human well-being. It is time we relinquished our feverish ranking within the OECD, and began contributing to the true advancement of the emerging global society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003ESustainability is the supreme political value of the 21st century. It is not a concept of passing political expediency\u2014a clip-on word for post-economic environmental damage. It is now the categorical imperative of personal behaviour. Individual freedoms are no longer unlicensed, but henceforth subordinate to the twin principles of survival and sustainable living. The political rights we enjoy today are to be calibrated by the responsibility we carry for tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EWith a sustainable economy, New Zealand can aspire to be a harmonious society. That is the day we rediscover our egalitarian roots, attaining true partnership between P\u0101keh\u0101 and tangata whenua. That is the day we reach out to immigrant cultures, welcoming their children to these shores, where the future beckons in this still young land of ours. That is the day when Aotearoa comes of age. And with a harmonious society, this country may then aspire to responsible global citizenship\u2014by honouring our international obligations and never collaborating with those that do not; by thinking of tomorrow\u2019s children and meeting our Kyoto targets today; by showing a true commitment to a nuclear-weapon-free world, not only through our national zone here at home but, more critically, in our voting pattern overseas and support for a nuclear weapons convention; by promoting fair trade and aid in the quantity and quality we once promised we would; and by respecting all civilisations and faiths around the world, in a spirit of respect and due humility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EAbove all, it is time we abided strictly by the global constitution of our times, working within coalitions of the lawful rather than the unwilling. Sixty-three years ago, our forefathers created the United Nations to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war that, twice in their lifetime, had brought untold suffering to humankind. Under the UN Charter, \u201Cwar\u201D has been rendered unlawful. Today, armed force may no longer be used by member States, save in the common interest. By adopting the charter, each member State, including New Zealand, undertakes never to commit aggression. It is time to ensure that we live up to our binding international obligations. It is time that the State responsibility New Zealand has assumed not to commit aggression is implemented in domestic legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EOver the years we have translated international obligations into our own legislation\u2014in 1946 to abide by economic sanctions of the Security Council, and in 1987 to forswear nuclear weapons. In 2002 we made it a criminal offence for any New Zealander to commit genocide, war crimes, or crimes against humanity. Now is the time to take the next step: to make it a crime in domestic law for any New Zealander, including its leaders, to commit aggression, as defined by the General Assembly of the United Nations in 1974. This simply requires the adoption by this House of legislation to that effect. If any New Zealand Government were, in the future, to commit aggression in violation of its obligations under the United Nations Charter, it would bring this country into global disrepute, incurring unacceptable political shame to this House. In such a situation the moral legitimacy that underpins the jurisdictional authority of that Government will have collapsed, with potentially far-reaching implications for its constitutional status. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EWe shall not take the critical step towards the future global society until we rise above the constraints of our national sovereignty, sharing our judgments, our beliefs, and our trust in one another as peoples of this world, united by our common human values, inspired by our common interests, and resolved to pursue our common dreams together. Only through a \u201Cnew patriotism\u201D shall we free ourselves from the bondage of enmities past, securing ourselves from the carnage of the kind that those enmities once inflicted upon us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EGenerations gone before have sacrificed for our cherished freedoms\u2014freedom of speech and association, freedom to practise our religions, freedom from want, and freedom from fear. The rights we proclaim\u2014civil and political; economic, social, and cultural\u2014are matched today by responsibilities that are comparable in scale and shaped for our times. It is the responsibility of each human, endowed with reason and conscience, compassion and concern, to act towards one another in a fraternal spirit in pursuit of the planetary interest with which all legitimate national interests today are compatible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, I never knew my uncle. He lies, to this day, beneath the shifting sands of the Egyptian desert. Lieutenant Colonel Alec Greville, 24th Battalion, gave his life for his country, that we might live in freedom and, it was to be hoped, secure in the promise of a better future. It is in his name, in the exercise of that freedom, that I advance these political beliefs, that all New Zealanders might find their true destiny in a global unity with a common strength of purpose across all of humankind. I so pledge myself, and all my future actions in this House, to that end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.04 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cf58caa6c54648c7b2ecbc9c92abd093\u0022\u003ETaxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b7b1b820be8b45b5ac616a33f9ac202e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000806\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2f001ce54624989a31cd5ee598b3e22\u0022\u003EClause 29  Rates of income tax for 2009-10 tax year (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002288cebc3b077344628bac0510bbc1e24e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 29 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 29 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8ee181ef5734950b509ea93f1609c46\u0022\u003EPart 3  Annual rates, independent earner tax credit, and consequential personal tax cuts amendments (except clause 29)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u00224688aca4f2ef48aa81d94a64a86fdef1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224688aca4f2ef48aa81d94a64a86fdef1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E This part is a very interesting component of the bill and merits the close consideration of the Committee for some time. It is a misguided attempt to ensure that New Zealanders do not lose because of the clumsy and haphazard effects of this rushed and ill-conceived tax legislation. Unfortunately, the Government has introduced the independent earner tax credit but is vetoing\u2014on financial veto grounds, I understand\u2014an amendment proposed by my colleague Dr Michael Cullen that seeks to protect all income earners from exactly those effects. Dr Cullen took the Minister of Finance, Bill English, at his word when he said earlier in the Committee debate: \u201CThere are no losers under this bill.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022507f2a9947bc41c2995dfce7704ee940\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what he said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225828751a0824b258cb99fe33a1cdbe8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: That is what he said, and that is the Government\u2019s position. The interesting thing, of course, is that it is just not true. As we have proven earlier in the debate, anyone earning between $14,000 and $20,000 will, by April 2011, face an 8.5c increase in their tax rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e07cb6316604b718d35d0b9ceac886b\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Wouldn\u2019t that make them worse off?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c03346f7aec1418aa15f937f532e32cf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: That would make them worse off. Let me prove the point. Dr Cullen\u2019s amendment simply provides for a compensatory tax credit for low-income earners and others who might find themselves \u201Cinadvertently\u201D penalised. If we took the Government at its word, nobody would be in that situation, and the cost of the amendment would, logically, be zero. Nobody would lose, so it would cost nothing to indemnify them. However, the Minister of Finance has come along with a very blunt instrument called a financial veto. He has said that the actual cost of insulating low-income earners would be\u2014wait for it\u2014$730 million over 5 years. In other words, he has made a $730 million change of mind\u2014that is the nicest way I can put it. He told us earlier that the penalty would be zero, but he went away and did his sums and found that\u2014oops\u2014he was out by another three-quarters of a billion dollars. Sorry! That is a hole he cannot blame on the outgoing Government. It is a $730 million kick in the guts for low-income New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWho are the people who will pay this $730 million so that someone earning three-quarters of a million dollars can have an extra $260 a week? They are people who might have a second job, cleaners, people who are late in their careers and have a pre-retirement part-time job. They are people who earn well below the average wage. As admitted by the Government, those kinds of people will be taxed in order to subsidise those who do not need a cut. This is Robin Hood in reverse, except that Bill English is not playing the role of Robin; he is playing a rather venal Sheriff of Nottingham, just before Christmas. It is not a good look for the Government, let us all admit, in its first week on the job. In particular, it is not a good look because Government members told us there would be no such penalty, and now they have quantified the real penalty in order to veto Dr Cullen\u2019s rather elegant amendment. They have shot themselves in both feet at the same time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe particular irony of this rather interesting self-contradiction is that it stands in strong contrast to the so-called independent earner tax credit, which seeks to improve the relative position of certain sectors of the community who felt a little brassed off because they did not get Working for Families payments. To enter that argument we need to think back and ask ourselves why Working for Families was brought in. It was brought in at a time when our families were under particular stress because of increased housing costs, rising fuel prices, and other things that we have all talked about and that we all understand are beyond our control. People who had the responsibility to bring up children faced huge costs, so we prioritised; we targeted State assistance to those who needed it most. It was a pretty fair thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EAh, along came a little thing called politics. Some of my parliamentary colleagues, from all sides of the Chamber, have probably done what I do occasionally in an election campaign, and that is stand on a traffic island. Jonathan Coleman does that\u2014[Interruption] Mr Coleman\u2019s electorate is just north of the bridge, and I recommend that he go back there sometime soon. [Interruption] Labour won the party vote in New Lynn, thank you very much. And that will be the high tide for the blue tide\u2014let us not worry about that. I noticed while standing on the traffic islands of New Lynn that anybody with a non-Caucasian face would generally give two thumbs up as he or she drove past. But I always knew I was in trouble when I saw a four-wheel drive driven by an overweight white male with a No. 2 haircut. Those drivers would generally wave only one digit and it was not the thumb. That is the market segment that this independent earner tax credit is designed to assuage. The grumpy white male vote is in play here. OK, that is fine; I think we can assume that the Government won the grumpy white male vote in the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022177ecccecd204050811f93913f8f7e45\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s sitting behind you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231270aa868ea44fc8fe4e76893eefeb9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Here he comes. I said grumpy, not bumbling. Mr Brownlee should read the Standing Orders; then he will be just fine in a year or two, if he is still here. The independent earner tax credit is a remarkable achievement for this Government. This bill was predicated on the unevenness of the marginal tax rate effects throughout the tax scale. In some misbegotten attempt to solve that problem, the Government has helicoptered in a tax credit for one particular section of the population. The net effect is that it makes the problem worse by singling out one small group of people who do not receive any of the other high-priority benefits and giving them a seemingly arbitrary gain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI come back to where I began. If the Government were serious about indemnifying New Zealanders at risk, it would choose not this mechanism but the mechanism that my good colleague Dr Cullen thought of in 5 minutes during the tea break. It would indemnify the net losers, whom Bill English said do not exist\u2014except that he then changed his mind and said that they exist to the tune of $730 million. Merry Christmas, New Zealanders! They thought they had voted for a benign kind of National Government, one that would keep in place the things they appreciated from the last 9 years of a good Labour Government, such as Working for Families, KiwiSaver, and the research and development tax credit that gave help to our innovators. The smiling face of Mr Key, as a likable bloke, bounced from cloud to cloud and told us it would all be OK. Then, on the Government\u2019s first day in the job, it introduced legislation that kicks low-income New Zealanders in the guts. It kicks our innovators in the guts, and kicks in the guts prudent New Zealanders who are saving for their future. Merry Christmas, Mr Key. Merry Christmas, Mr English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI say to New Zealand that unfortunately this is probably a foretaste of things to come. As one colleague said earlier today, when we look back in history we can see that this week is remarkably similar to the first week of the Ruth Richardson economic reign, when tax cuts to the wealthy, punitive employment relations legislation, and misguided intervention were the order of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to see Sir Roger Douglas back in the House. He opposed that Government, and now he is in favour of the same thing. He still holds to the same ideals; it is just that he has had an interesting policy evolution on the way to serve them. I look forward to nothing so much as his maiden speech, so I am getting in early to see whether I can identify the contradiction before he gets the chance to underline it. That will be a precious moment in New Zealand\u2019s economic history\u2014when he justifies the full circle that he has travelled. We look forward to that with great anticipation. That kind of full circle, that kind of logical OODA loop, to use military technology, is rather like the logical backflip that has been done here by the Government. It has put in an independent earner tax credit. It has singled out the grumpy white males with the No. 2 haircuts, and chucked them $10 a week, ignoring low-income families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022 data-id=\u0022c002c68e63e84a1d86f69b66b1c56667\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c002c68e63e84a1d86f69b66b1c56667\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E When I look across to the other side of the Chamber I do indeed see some grumpy white males, but not with No. 2 haircuts\u2014not yet. The electorate became sick and tired of hearing a couple of grumpy white males telling them that their taxes could not be cut until those members were 15 points behind in the polls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ae372d83bcf448ea8a21c9747c9efd8\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Then there was the road to Damascus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277ba2f8df4ba498699c54444fb23d35e\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. The independent earner tax credit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242a24a7872ba46cea5ca42b94b850fcb\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: There are 9 billion reasons to be generous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022507334dc2beb423ca315110f6c1e0a42\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Did the previous speaker say he was looking forward to Sir Roger Douglas\u2019s maiden speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273c5e1be65904276b42832b6437836c7\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: He doesn\u2019t get another one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fe2ba3072b544a7b51aa14cbe2a64ca\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: He does not get another one. I think he is about 30 years too late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc108380c25949ab8573123bc44f1531\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I was giving the member the benefit of the doubt. He may have been deflowered a couple of times but he is still a maiden in our eyes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a3f17d400f2460daef02d832152c733\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: I did make the point to the member that we learnt the other day that Sir Roger Douglas never made a valedictory speech, so I guess he had a premonition that he would be back. That is over to him. [Interruption] \u201CThe Return\u201D\u2014whatever. There are a few speech notes there!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThe independent earner tax credit forms a cornerstone of one of National\u2019s commitments that we are committed to pushing through in the first 100 days of our administration. Yes, it will be pushed through before Christmas. I note that the previous member talked about a long night, or a long speech\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d58811bdce554f7b94493e508decb8b8\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I see Sir Roger Douglas is preparing to leave. If indeed he does not need to give a maiden speech, I wonder whether the member who is on his feet would cede part of his time so that Sir Roger can illuminate us, which we would very much like him to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdd3c717476045a7a1983ed73a62ed17\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order, and it is not helpful to the debate. One of the things that is going to change somewhat is this habit of members raising points of order that are not points of order but some kind of interjection. The tolerance of that is going to diminish as the days go by, let me assure that member and anybody else in the Chamber. Points of order will be points of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232beca54335f441a8f138fa9ce1a1eb3\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your guidance, Mr Chair. The independent earner tax credit is a cornerstone of this legislation and of National\u2019s commitment to the electorate. It will be very interesting, because it seems obvious that the members on the other side of the Chamber will be voting against this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d897ccc33be43d6960dea5f0cf9185f\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Better believe it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288409f0ae65e42adba67fa337ca7a543\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: We had better believe it. They will be voting against it. They keep talking about the people in the electorate. They are going to rock up to 630,000-odd New Zealanders\u2014stand on traffic islands, you name it; whatever the previous member said\u2014who have not enjoyed any benefit whatsoever from the huge tax gains made over the last 9 years by the previous administration. They have not benefited one little bit. In fact, they have been punished by fiscal drag over those years of 25 percent to 30 percent, I guess. They have been dragged through higher prices, etc., and have been taken into new tax brackets. The party opposite is going to tell those 630,000 people who are eligible for $10 a week from 1 April 2009, moving to $15 a week from 1 April 2010, that they should not share in the tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThe Opposition has been playing wedge politics. Its speeches are constantly about other parties in the Chamber, and about the make-up of New Zealand. Those members are going to tell 630,000 people that they should not share in the tax cuts that the National Party put before the country at the last election. That proposal led to our being resoundingly voted in. The previous administration refused to cut taxes, and it refused to recognise this particular demographic, who work just as hard as anybody else. They resoundingly voted the previous administration out. This group does not have children. The tax cuts are targeted. Many may have delayed having children. Whatever the reason, what business is it of this House as to why people did or did not have children, or when they did or did not have children? Goodness gracious! The previous administration tried to control light bulbs and shower heads, and now it is trying to control even further what goes on in people\u2019s personal lives. I will not elaborate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThe members of the previous administration are being true to form. Every single speech made by those members shows their true colours. They will not be more clear and succinct than when they vote against this part whereby 630,000 New Zealanders will enjoy $10 a week from 1 April 2009, in these tough economic times, in this deep recession, which began under the previous administration\u2014prior to it beginning in any other country, by the way. Those people will get $15 a week from 1 April 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EIt is a start. As I said in my first reading speech, it is a start. The tax changes in this bill are part of a greater plan. They send a very special and very succinct message to the electorate. The message that these tax changes send is that Government members value New Zealanders\u2019 hard work. We value the hard work that they do to help make our country great. We value the fact that they are still here in New Zealand, and have not joined their friends and family overseas. We value the fact that they are choosing to make a better life for themselves in New Zealand. We value the fact that one day they may have children, or maybe they will not\u2014it is none of our business whatsoever. The message this bill sends is that hard work is hard work, regardless of family status, regardless of whether a person has children. Does someone who works on the factory floor who has two, three, or four children work harder than someone on the factory floor who does not have children? Yes or no?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EA previous speaker, the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, made some superfluous points about the cut-in at $23,999 and argued how arbitrary it was. Yes, in a really academic sense he may be right on that small point, but we should look at it logically. Is hard work different because of who does it? Should not all New Zealanders enjoy the benefits of a positive taxation commitment from their Government? Should not they all enjoy it, regardless of their status? Of course they should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI have just one other point\u2014I think the next grumpy old man is ready to speak. Dr Cullen raised some interesting points, and I believe he tried to table an amendment earlier. I look forward to it. It obviously is in the same realm as his other accusations about this bill\u2014about pension portability and KiwiSaver\u2014which have been blown out of the water, but we will look forward to discussing it in the debate on Part 4. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u002286d76e9b89c04c4c8edd682219d51615\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286d76e9b89c04c4c8edd682219d51615\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E One scarcely knows where to begin on this piece of nonsense. I said at the start of this debate that there were some incompetent and silly bits in this bill, and this is certainly incompetent and silly and certainly unfair. We are told that this independent earner tax credit applies to 630,000 people. There are 3 million taxpayers in New Zealand, so 2.4 million taxpayers are getting nothing out of the independent earner tax credit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4efaeeafda548358882d78d3995c78d\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: But they are in the tax threshold changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022280dbebc7b9d4beea793dcf5c2386e88\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, they are not in the tax threshold changes. The member has not listened at all today. Anybody earning $14,000 to $24,000 was getting a threshold change under Labour, but it is taken away under National. They will be paying more tax under National by 2011 than they would have been paying under Labour. They will be paying $9 a week more if they are on $20,000. Everybody believes that. It has been in the newspapers. My God\u2014if we can convince the Dominion Post and the New Zealand Herald then we have the Tory press on side, and that is a pretty good start on winning that particular argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe have this nonsense whereby if one is earning $23,999 and one earns $1 more, one will get a $750 bonus\u2014a $780 bonus by 2010 with the independent earner tax credit. So for that $1 I guarantee that there will be an awful lot of people earning exactly $24,000 a year by April 2010. Talk about rorts on research and development tax credits! It will be amazing. We will have businesses around the country saying: \u201CIf I slip you 20 bucks extra, give me a couple of hundred back under the table, because you will qualify for a $780 tax credit from the Government.\u201D That will go on\u2014it will be rorted up and down the country. It will not be all the clever guys in the glass towers who work this one out\u2014small businesses will be working it out for themselves with their own employees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut who does not get the independent earner tax credit? Anyone who is receiving an income-tested benefit. So a solo mum who is struggling to bring up her kids, going out to work\u2014Paula Bennett\u2019s ideal past\u2014and earning, say, $8,000 a year, or $150 a week, does not get the independent earner tax credit. She might be struggling to bring up three kids, and the Government says to her: \u201CSorry about that. You\u2019re bringing up kids so you don\u2019t get the independent earner tax credit.\u201D However, the guy next door, who is her ex-husband and walked out, does get it. Members would feel pretty ticked off if they were that solo mum. They would say: \u201CWhat kind of pro-family National Government is this one?\u201D. This is pretty strange, what they are doing here. Had they thought about that? Look at them\u2014they never think about these things when they make up these policies. Why? Because it was made up on the hoof. They promised 50 bucks a week for those on the average wage\u2014which, of course, was including what Labour was already doing. It was not 50 bucks a week on top of that, although they led people to believe that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThen when they got the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update, there was not a dry seat left in the National Party caucus, and they said: \u201CSomehow we have to save some money. So how do we deliver 50 bucks a week at $46,000 a year?\u201D. Then they had a bright idea. They would have a targeted tax credit that would start somewhere or other, fade out by $50,000 a year, and just happen to add up to not quite $50 but $49.13, I think it was, at $46,000 a year. That is where this came from. This was a last-minute put-together job that looked as though it was Gerry Brownlee trying to assemble a Chinese bicycle from the parts. It did not work. The wheels were on top of the handlebars and nothing was going anywhere at the end of the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWho else does not get the independent earner tax credit? Anybody who is receiving a veterans pension does not get it. We have heard about all the vets. My goodness, have we not had hands on hearts from various people, including during the Prime Minister\u2019s speech. Well, if one went to one of those places\u2014say, Malaya\u2014and got injured and is on a veterans pension, and one earns, say, 10,000 bucks, which is a couple of hundred dollars a week, one does not get the independent earner tax credit. Because one is not independent. So here is a veteran, 70 years old or whatever, although he is probably a bit older if he went to Malaya. Say he went to Viet Nam, and here he is, at 60 years old, with an injury, and qualifying for a veterans pension, and my goodness me! He will be cut out of the independent earner tax credit. So that is a thank you for his service to the nation\u2014from the party that sent him there in the first place, and did not honour him when he came back. And now it will not give him the independent earner tax credit. I am sure that person will say: \u201CWell, thank you very much\u2014again.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe person concerned might not be receiving New Zealand superannuation. He or she might have the gall to go out and carry on working, which is a good idea with an ageing population, he said subtly. It is a good idea to carry on working in that situation. But no, that person will not get the independent earner tax credit. And if the person gets Working for Families, both partners, both spouses, do not qualify for the independent earner tax credit\u2014not just one, but both. How did Government members make that up in their minds? How do both people get cut out of the independent earner tax credit because of this? This is the first time I am aware of, in any developed economy, where somebody has developed a tax credit to discriminate against families with children. It is not in favour of families with children, as Working for Families is, but against them. It says it is a bad thing to have children, and if people have children the Government will not say that they are working as hard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut what about a person on $23,000, or $27,000, who is a solo parent going out to work and slaving, and probably working horrible shift hours, probably paying for childcare, and probably struggling to bring up their kids? Those people are being told, according to Mr Foss, that they are not working hard. Mr Foss, who is lying on the great luxurious Government backbenches, with no real job to do, says: \u201CI know you\u2019re bringing up three kids. I know you\u2019re working 25 or 30 hours a week, but you are not working hard enough to qualify for\u201D\u2014what is it from this magnificent, this munificent, this great turbocharged New Zealand economy? It is $10 a week. When we had a tax cut that, for a full-time earner, was a minimum of $16 a week, it was derided as being merely the cost of a block of cheese. But suddenly $10 a week, providing a person does not buy the block of cheese, presumably, will drive this economy faster into a golden future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f463468556c4834b6cb4b86b2cb0a0d\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Turbocharge it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022444e5a2005e04feab4b02b27acb5aa10\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, turbocharge it into the future. Are we seriously meant to take this as an intelligent well-thought-through policy by a party that spent 9 years in Opposition planning what it wanted to do in Government? It is rickety, put-together, ramshackle, and expensive. It is expensive to administer. One hundred extra bureaucrats\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c89842d717e649538b4f54d3f919c702\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e166554f68f94ddabfcc192960a44337\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Do members remember that word? Members opposite call them public servants now that they are in Government, but they were called bureaucrats when those members were in Opposition only a few short weeks ago. One hundred extra bureaucrats are needed to administer this bill. It will cost ten million bucks a year, which is easily about $100,000 per bureaucrat by the time we take the overheads into account, etc. etc. That is 100 fewer front-line staff somewhere else in the system delivering services. Well, brilliant! It just shows what a brighter future looks like when one cannot think properly, when one cannot work out policy, and when one does not think about the kinds of individual examples that this applies to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Foss that he should go and tell his superannuitants, if they work, that they do not work hard. He should go and tell the solo mums who are working that they do not work hard. He should go and tell people on veterans pensions who are doing some work that they do not work hard. He should go and tell the struggling families with two income-earners that neither of them will qualify for the independent earner tax credit, and then come back here and tell me what a great policy it was. People did not think that is what was happening. The Government might have had it in the fine print, but that is not the message it sent to them. The message that National sent was tax credits, tax cuts for everybody; that is what National would be doing. But that is not what this bill does, and that is why we are voting against this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u0022076eeec0361c481faeff9777a77b7ec4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022076eeec0361c481faeff9777a77b7ec4\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E First, I would like to congratulate the Chair on his very good ruling earlier, which set the tone for his chairmanship, which is something that the public and this Parliament have been looking forward to for a long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295374b77753d4233821291fdb05d72de\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. It is out of order to comment on a presiding officer\u2019s ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022000086877ed44a68855c87877a48aea1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I know it is. I was hoping he was going to terminate. Will the member get on with his speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e5b0a81399f4b9bb2ad1d1e288c114b\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: I was hoping he was going to terminate, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022866ce0e7c96f4a16a0a263f7615a3da0\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The only termination we have seen is the Labour Party at the last election about a month ago. They are sitting there now, trying to work out what is going on, are they not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe independent earner tax credit is an initiative that National and its coalition partners have put through in this great legislation, the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. It is something many New Zealanders have looked forward to for a long time. They have looked forward to a signal from the Government of the day that it actually does reward hard work, and that it sends the right signals to those people who are willing to go out there and make the most of their opportunities. That is what this legislation is about. It is about sending the signal to hard-working Kiwis that the Government does care, that the Government does provide the circumstances so that people can provide for themselves and for their families in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThat is what the tax credit for independent earners is all about. Its importance will develop over time, as the individuals who take advantage of this tax credit become the families of the future of our country. A lot of young people starting off in their careers, now find that they are in situations where they pay high taxes, and they feel that they are not getting any support. They are the people who want to get married, have children, buy a house, and set up what we consider to be the heart of the New Zealand community. We have not been looking after those people in this country. We have not been giving them the incentive to stay in New Zealand to actually do the things that develop their communities in this country. Well, National is making a constructive step today to give them some kind of a signal that we want to reward their enterprise and their activity. We want to show them that there is a future in this country, and that the Government of the day will look after them, and will provide the platform for them to go ahead and achieve their dreams. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThat is fundamental to building a stronger economy. When we talk about this legislation as being part of a process of economic growth, many people will ask how that will be part of that process. It is quite obvious now that if we look after the young people who are making their first steps in their career, to encourage them to stay here, and to deliver for this economy, then we are building a stronger economic base for our country. That is the fundamental element of this legislation, and the reason behind it. We want to give that future\u2014that brighter future\u2014for the next generation of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ETo do that, we must give them the tools to invest in themselves, and also give them the tools so that they get the reward for that investment. No other Government has done this in recent times, but National has. We are not afraid of taking the steps to set out an agenda and a process for New Zealanders to succeed and prosper. We are not afraid to set out a process by which people can have hope and faith in their country, and their future. This legislation gives hope and direction to young New Zealanders who want to make a better, brighter future in this country. They need not go overseas to take advantage of their future and their careers. They can stay in New Zealand and take advantage, because we will give them the reward for their hard work, the reward for their education, and the reward for their diligence and dedication to their job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThat is an important signal for any Government to send. It is important that we as a Parliament send that signal, especially at this time when we need young people in our country, when we need people to feel that they have direction and motivation, and that there is a way forward. National has provided that direction. We have provided the way forward. We are providing that brighter future. It is great legislation; its tax credits for independent earners will go down as something that will be one of the major steps, and one of the first steps, in providing a brighter future for all New Zealanders as we go forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022 data-id=\u0022346b05d4f0cc499b89dc58520ece6a2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022346b05d4f0cc499b89dc58520ece6a2f\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E It is clear that when that member, David Bennett, makes his contribution in the House, he has a soundtrack to a movie playing in his head. There could not have been more clich\u00E9s packed into a 5-minute contribution than that member just demonstrated. I am assured that every National Party MP has been offered a dollar for every time he or she says \u201Ca brighter future\u201D in the House. David Bennett will retire rich. That was an awful contribution, if I may say so, even by comparison with previous ones. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EI would like to make two points during my contribution to debate on Part 3 of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. The first is to ask the Minister sitting in the chair some specific questions about what is clearly a misunderstanding on the bill. I was able to pose these questions to the Minister of Finance earlier. Unfortunately, he was called away from the Chamber on urgent matters of public affair; he had to leave, and was not able to give me an answer. So I ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Dr Jonathan Coleman, to provide on public record the answers to these questions. His colleagues clearly do not know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EOver the dinner break I witnessed another one of the new bewildered backbenchers of the National Government asking a senior colleague whether what Labour was saying was true; whether it was true that we are increasing taxes for low-income earners. That bewildered backbencher was told to just ignore what Labour is saying. [Interruption] In my view, that is a totally dishonest way of proceeding with any legislation, let alone legislation that is being rammed through under urgency without any public input, let alone public scrutiny. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister in the chair what is\u2014under existing law\u2014the 20/11 marginal tax rate for a person who is earning between $14,000 and $20,000 a year? Does the Minister know the answer to that question; if so, is he prepared to answer by interjection? Right. He probably does not know; I will help him. The answer is 12.5c. That is the current 20/11 marginal tax rate for a person earning between $14,000 and $20,000 a year. Under the bill that we are debating under urgency tonight, what will be that same person\u2019s marginal tax rate? The answer is 21c. I ask the Minister what is higher\u201421c or 12.5c? In my view, increasing a person\u2019s marginal tax rate from 12.5 percent to 21 percent is raising his or her tax rate. A person earning between $14,000 and $20,000 a year does not have excessive amounts of money to splash around. There is not much left over every week. So the Minister needs to say that either it is a typing or drafting mistake\u2014and that is possible as it may well have been put together in a bit of a hurry\u2014or that what Labour is saying is right, and that what the Minister of Finance and his Acting Minister is saying is incorrect. This bill increases the tax rate for the lowest-income earners in our country, and every member of the National Party who said that they would cut taxes for every single New Zealander, should go back to where he or she campaigned and apologise to the public of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EIf National members do not do that, we will make sure that every single person who heard that dishonest commitment knows what actually happened during the process of this bill. It is just plain dishonest to say prior to the election that every single working New Zealander will benefit from tax cuts, to make that commitment to the country, and then come into this House and raise the tax rate of the most vulnerable people in our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to raise is in regard to the amendment that has been presented by Michael Cullen, an amendment to insert a new clause 30A. The point of this amendment is quite simple, and is explained as is appropriate in the explanatory note. It says that this amendment \u201Cwill ensure nobody is made worse off as a result of the new rate and threshold changes.\u201D It could not be more straightforward as outlined in that explanatory note. This \u201Cwill ensure nobody is made worse off as a result of the new rate and threshold changes.\u201D What National member would disagree with that? What National member would say that this only confirms what John Key said all through the campaign? It only confirms what Bill English said all through the campaign\u2014\u201CNobody will be worse off, in fact everybody will be better off.\u201D In fact, this amendment should confirm National\u2019s commitment. But what has happened to it? What has happened to this amendment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EI will leave the answer to that question for just a little moment, because I want to quote what the Minister of Finance said during one of his earlier contributions in this debate tonight. On record in the House\u2014recorded extraordinarily accurately by the Hansard stenographer and the tape\u2014he specifically said: \u201CThere are no losers under this bill.\u201D That, to my mind, means that nobody will be worse off. They may not be better off\u2014I will accept that. But \u201Cno losers\u201D means they cannot be worse off. He said: \u201CThere are no losers under this bill.\u201D So if that is true, if what the Minister of Finance said in this very debate in the Committee is true, this amendment would get the total agreement of Parliament. [Interruption] Sorry; with the exception of ACT members, who may vote differently just because they are so inclined, every thinking member of Parliament would support this amendment because it does nothing more than confirm what the Minister of Finance said. He said there were no losers, so if this amendment confirms specifically in the legislation that there are no losers, then it must be at no cost, because the Minister of Finance has already confirmed it. Yet that same Minister of Finance has used an extraordinary process, a financial veto on this amendment, saying that it would cost $730 million over 5 years. Now, how does that figure? I think even David Bennett might be able to work out that if there are no losers, then an amendment to confirm that there are no losers cannot cost $730 million over 5 years. So where is that money? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b71d03b0d1b34ffbbdd809928a8404fe\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunately, his teachers never told his parents anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022658e37db17544b1ba9ff4f2821b8a59b\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. He probably did not have a literacy and numeracy test at 5 years of age. His parents never had his standards explained to them in plain English, and that is why we have ended up with the situation that we have. If there are no losers under this bill, then there is no way that Michael Cullen\u2019s amendment can cost $730 million over 5 years, but that is what the Minister of Finance has said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EWhere is that money now? We know that that money is in the wage packets of the lowest-income earners of New Zealand\u2014the people who have either already had their tax reduced or who, under the existing legislation, are to have their tax rates cut over the coming 3 years. That is where that money either is going or would be going. For example, the law as it is currently gives those people whom I mentioned earlier\u2014the people earning between $14,000 and $20,000\u2014a marginal tax rate of 12.5 percent. They are to lose that marginal tax rate and they will instead be paying over 20 percent. That is a loss. That is a tax increase. Bill English has confirmed in the House during this debate that keeping this bill honest to National\u2019s commitment that there will be no losers would cost $730 million over 5 years. Well, in my view, it is now quite clear that it will cost a lot more than that to keep National honest. On this one bill we have had an absolute contradiction, which was confirmed in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u00222312212830154f26bc09f410c11a82e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222312212830154f26bc09f410c11a82e2\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u002210f37d30ffa94048a457cce4b6c72bb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210f37d30ffa94048a457cce4b6c72bb3\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the chance to take a call on Part 3 of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. It is very important that the Opposition gets a chance to speak and to scrutinise this bill, and particularly this part, because throughout the debate on the items in the urgency motion the Opposition has not been given the chance to see the legislation until we start debating it. It is an absolute outrage that that is happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261032580402b4581ba9551518999886e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a493e7f33c472ab9039be21a3835e3\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that never happened under you lot\u2014outrageous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3ddaf1a433a4cdf89b6ca58e38d18b6\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Maurice Williamson says that that never happened under Labour, and he is right. I want the Minister Maurice Williamson to tell me how often the previous Labour Government put the House into urgency and all the legislation in the urgency motion was not available to the House. How often was the legislation to be debated not available? How often was it made available bill by bill only, even though the Leader of the House had said at 2 o\u2019clock that he would make it available now? That was a quarter of a day ago, which, for Gerry Brownlee is pretty fast progress, I concede, but for most ordinary people a quarter of a day is quite a long time. If the Opposition is not given the chance to read a bill before we start debating it, it is important that we are able to give our part by part analysis in the Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EClause 29 sets the tax rates for the financial year 2009-10. It is part of Part 3. Clause 29 has done that; it makes the whole thing quite clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd0ba06def3841beaa4d32fdfd619ef6\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Surely the rest of this contribution cannot be even slightly relevant if the man is not even aware of what he is debating. Quite clearly, judging by his embarrassed look, he has not read this particular part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022144eea0f8f084574bff55b88fadf5b0a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257bf06819fd647b09435ef31e44c14d1\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I assure the member that I always look this way, regardless of whether I am in an embarrassed state. I was born looking this way and I have learnt to love myself in this shape, unlike Mr Brownlee, who always seems resentful and bitter about the way that mother Nature has him appear in the House of Representatives today. [Interruption] That is right; he had to work very hard to look that way. I started off looking like this, and that is the way it has to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EWe have debated the tax rates for the coming year, and, as Ruth Dyson has already said, for some people\u2014particularly those on low incomes\u2014their taxes go up quite substantially. Now we come to the independent earner tax credit, which the Government is putting up as its major centrepiece to make sure that people get close to the $50 a week they were promised. But there is a problem with that, because the $50 a week they were promised includes the tax cuts that were part of the Labour Government\u2019s legislative programme in Budget 2008. But we have to take the argument even further, because when we put that to Bill English, the Minister of Finance, he said we cannot say that there is a tax increase for people on low incomes, because National is not counting Labour\u2019s tax cuts\u2014even though we know that when the legislation comes in it will be adverse for people\u2014but when it comes to making up the $50, it cannot wait to get out the abacus and count Labour\u2019s tax cuts as part of the programme that National is putting forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EThe bridging policy is the independent earner tax credit, but when one looks at it one sees how unfair it is. I ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Dr Jonathan Coleman, a question. Is any single worker worse off as a result of the tax changes proposed in this part of the bill? The Minister\u2019s colleagues are talking while he is trying to hear. He is now paid a quarter of a million dollars. He gets quite a good tax cut under this part of the bill. He does quite well out of it, despite the fact that he is not an independent earner in that respect\u2014he relies on nanny State to pay his wages. He can now tell us whether any workers will be worse off as a result of this part being passed by Parliament. The rising star of the National Cabinet cannot answer that question. We have to keep on debating this bill until we have a Government Minister in the chair who understands National\u2019s policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EI ask Jonathan Coleman another question. What was the range of the independent earner tax credit that he campaigned on in the election? He does not know. He shakes his head. He does not know. He has no idea what the independent earner tax credit was that those members campaigned on. I ask him what range it has now that it is in the bill. Oh, he does not know that, either. To be fair to the man, I tell him that it is on the piece of paper in front of him. I know what it is, I tell Mr Coleman; it is on the page in front of me. He will find it on page 15. I will give him a few seconds to find it. It is a different figure from the figure quoted during the campaign, when National members went around the country saying that they would put in an independent earner tax credit. They said that it would range from $24,000 to $50,000. That is not what the bill before Parliament right now states. Thank goodness we have the chance to go through the bill carefully in the Committee stage, because under the bold, brighter, inclusive future that National MPs have been programmed to tell us about we did not get to see the bill before we started debating it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EWhat it means is that there are people who get only $10 a week, which is a pretty pathetic amount, considering that Dr Cullen\u2019s tax cuts were larger. One of the great ironies of this debate is that the largest tax cuts in this 3-year programme are Michael Cullen\u2019s tax cuts, not Bill English\u2019s tax cuts. Oh, the big man is now on the move towards the papers on the Table, so we might learn what the non-independent earner has to say about it. Maybe he could sit in the chair and tell us what the range was. I know that he has pored over every detail of the legislation before the Committee. I know that the Leader of the House has not let a single page go unmarked as he makes sure that workers in this country get the best deal. I cannot believe that he allowed this $6,000 figure to escape from the National Party manifesto. Gerry Brownlee was all over the detail, so I cannot believe that there is a $6,000 hole for working people in the bill before the Committee of the whole House this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EI ask him to get into the chair now and relieve Jonathan Coleman, because he will be able to tell us why people who get a benefit do not get the independent earner tax credit if they are earning money. We were told by Mrs Collins before her demotion that National wanted to raise the amount that beneficiaries could earn to $100 immediately on becoming Government, because work was so important. Work would set people free. Katrina Shanks yawns at the mention of the word \u201Cwork\u201D; she is working at 7.50 in the evening on the third day of this Parliament. That is what those members are going to have to put up with. This Government, which has barely taken office, cannot tell us why it campaigned on beneficiaries being able to earn more money\u2014because, apparently, that is an important philosophy that people have to learn\u2014but if they get a job and earn money, they are not entitled to the independent earner tax credit. I want the Minister in the chair to explain to me how he can reconcile that social policy with that economic policy. I think it is quite an important point, which the Committee of the whole House does want to know about. It seems to me to be quite crucial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EDr Cullen talked about veterans pensions for people who have served our country in war.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cceedb25f4474d29bfb948534a3c7372\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: He would talk about veterans pensions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a4eca6ea77452a8e53177cf3840d4e\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Tau Henare knows about being in a few battles and a few wars. None of them were official ones, but in every single one he was a victim. He is the walking wounded without ever having put on a uniform. He may well want to line up for the independent earner tax credit before he joins the M\u0101ori Party, having been shunned and made to feel whakam\u0101 by the National Party. That is what has happened there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EFor people on New Zealand superannuation, I see the new member of Parliament for \u014Ctaki over there. I know that seat has the highest number of people over the age of 65, and I know that a lot of them still work. He is going to vote to make sure they do not get the independent earner tax credit. They will be worse off as a result of the bill being passed by Parliament tonight. Those people would have got a tax cut under Labour. I want to know what these bold new members of Parliament are going to do about the fact that they campaigned all around the country on letting people keep more of their money\u2014that is what they said\u2014yet when the legislation comes to Parliament they cannot wait to take money out of the pockets of pensioners and put it in their own back pockets. One of the first announcements from this Government was an increase in the pay of members of Parliament, but those members cannot wait to take money out of the back pockets of pensioners, which is what they are doing in clause 31. Very many people are going to be affected negatively by the independent earner tax credit, particularly those who earn under $40,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EI see the new member of Parliament for Te Tai Tonga over there. I congratulate Rahui Katene on her election to Parliament, but 73 percent of her constituents earn less than $40,000 a year, which is way worse than the average for a lot of other electorates in the country\u2014although for \u014Ctaki it is 60 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d81316cbe334fc08a61c7bb8a20dd63\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: And what did you do about it for 9 years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ca046944a794f99bfbc9bae632fd1e0\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: We increased the minimum wage every single year, so that it went up by $5 over the 9 years that we were in Government. It went up by 70c in the 9 years that Tau Henare was part of a Government. So these figures are better than what they would have been if Labour had not been in Government. When 73 percent of a member\u2019s constituents earn less than $40,000 a year, that member needs to read Part 3 of this bill really carefully, because those people cannot, by definition, benefit from the changes that the National Government is introducing. This bill unpicks law that is already on the statute book and replaces it, and that means they are worse off a second time, because they will not get the benefit of what Parliament legislated for earlier on. That is the key point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister of Finance was in the chair before, he tried to gloss over this point by not counting Labour\u2019s legislated tax cuts, but he has to count it in order to get to the $50 he promised. The $10 amount that he is putting in is an absolute sham. It is a disgraceful amount that will not make a difference for ordinary people. We have tried in the debate on this part to ameliorate the concerns we have as an Opposition party. We believe that National Party members were not up front with the public about this matter when they were campaigning. They said they were in favour of tax cuts. Tens of thousands of people right across the country will now find that their taxes are going up under National; they are not going down as they were meant to do. Craig Foss will not be too worried about that, because Craig Foss is in Parliament for Craig Foss, but those of us who are interested in making sure that New Zealanders do well say there is a problem with this part. Michael Cullen has a solution. His Supplementary Order Paper fixes this problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u00228d6d01c0123a4bd397d80a1428230003\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d6d01c0123a4bd397d80a1428230003\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Not so long ago, when it was in Opposition, the National Party came down to this House and repeatedly accused us of communism by stealth. That was about Working for Families. National opposed Working for Families. National members said it introduced too much complexity into the tax system, that it made beneficiaries out of taxpayers, who had to fill in a form in order to get some sort of entitlement. Now, in Part 3, National introduces an independent earner tax credit, which is probably the most difficult to administer wrinkle in the income tax system that any Government has been silly enough to put into the tax legislation for a long, long time. It means more bureaucrats and more cost to taxpayers, as they have to file tax returns to get their entitlements, and less certainty for taxpayers, who will not know what they are entitled to. This tax credit that National talks up ad infinitum has a very narrow ambit. It applies only to people who are earning between $24,000 and $44,000. The abatement rates are confusing for people. It will cause additional cost to the Inland Revenue Department, and additional compliance costs to taxpayers\u2014and this from the party that said it was all for tax simplification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EWell, if taxpayers want tax simplification, that means they simply want to know whether they will go forwards or backwards as a consequence of legislation. Of course, that is what Dr Cullen\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper would give people. It would give them the certainty that this legislation would not reduce their incomes by increasing their taxes. It is a very simple Supplementary Order Paper. It says exactly that. The motion is \u201Cto ensure no taxpayer is disadvantaged by the new rate and threshold changes in this Bill.\u201D This is exactly what the Government said, not just in this House but during the election. No one would be worse off\u2014those were National\u2019s words. This is exactly what the Supplementary Order Paper would achieve. Bill English had the temerity to say that this should be vetoed. He would not even let it be put to the vote in this Chamber. He used the very rarely used veto powers that are able to be exercised if there is a substantial financial effect from the Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003ENational exercised the right of veto on this occasion because, truth be known, it now says it would cost $730 million over 4 years. In other words, the effect of this tax bill is to take $730 million of tax off people. They are being taxed more, not less, to the tune of $730 million. If Working for Families was communism by stealth, it appears that this bill is Robin Hood in reverse\u2014taking from the poor and giving to the rich. That is the effect of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThis legislation decreases the wealth of those who are most vulnerable, and it is being voted upon by the M\u0101ori Party, which is supporting the National Party in this legislation to raise taxes on the lowest income people in the country, and that disproportionately affects M\u0101oridom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc5a8a5ddff44b9084aee1245b827e64\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: The M\u0101ori Party, the M\u0101ori Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7e51d3be4a54ff983bc8d55a1263126\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: We have Tau Henare over there. Tau spent many years in a prior failed allegiance with the National Party, which ended in tears for his members, and which party spent lots of money on underpants but not much on the people he was meant to be representing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThis legislation is an outrage. It increases compliance costs for taxpayers. There will be more money wasted within the Inland Revenue Department. It takes money from those who can least afford it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c60bdbafaa1f4885a06f1ad8e3953ddb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c60bdbafaa1f4885a06f1ad8e3953ddb\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecd84abbc8534a99be9bcf88674edff9\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Hooray!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae807e009bf14cdead999501e4202955\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was not going to say anything, but, you know, how could one resist after listening to the Labour Opposition. The Committee on this bill has spent a considerable amount of time this afternoon and this evening debating whether this taxation bill helps or hurts low-income taxpayers\u2014whether it helps to restore the margin between low-income workers and those on benefits in order to encourage them to seek work. I believe that the bill does help achieve both of these objectives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003ELet us look at the issue of whether this bill in fact helps low-income earners or whether it helps the rich. The Opposition has claimed throughout this debate that the decision to hold the 12.5c rate to the $14,000 tax bracket rather than raise it to $20,000 was designed to hurt low-income people. Not so. Not so. If we put aside beneficiaries whose income in whole or in large proportion comes from the Government, we come to realise that the people who are in the tax bracket zero to $20,000 all\u2014or a vast majority; 90-plus percent of them\u2014come from high-income households, or they are people with high assets. So the people who are in the zero to $20,000 tax bracket come from high-income households. They are the sons and daughters of the rich or the partner, the wife, or the husband of a very high-income earner. In fact, if we look at Michael Cullen\u2019s 2008 Budget and the tax changes in it, we see that it was an invitation to income split. He created a new industry with that Budget\u2014accountants going to their clients and helping them income split. So the Michael Cullen Budget was designed to help the rich and the high-income earners by enabling them to income split\u2014hardly the action of a party that wants to help those on low-incomes. So the reality is in fact a lot different from the rhetoric of those members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022765dcd63d99343c98e55f248e881970b\u0022\u003EThe group of taxpayers who need tax relief are those who fall within the 21c tax bracket. Anyone who is working full time is actually a taxpayer who falls within that tax bracket. So the people we want to help are the ones whose last dollar of income falls within that 21c tax bracket. It was this group of people who were in the 21c tax bracket that was disgracefully treated by the last Labour Government. A lot of the people in that tax bracket who in 2000 were paying $1 in $5 found, when the Labour Government came along, that for every extra dollar they earned, $1 in $3\u2014not $1 in $5 as it was in 2000\u2014went to the Government. From that point on it was $1 in $3. Quite a lot of people found that they had to pay up to an extra $30 a week because the Labour Government did not want to help these low-income people. It did not want to help, so it held the tax bracket where it was. If it had been inflation-proofed it would have gone to $50,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef92c30fce2d44f08de1d00f1eeac40f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef92c30fce2d44f08de1d00f1eeac40f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am going to talk about high marginal tax rates, and I think it is worth reminding the Committee of what probably almost everybody in this Chamber has forgotten. At one stage Sir Roger proposed a form of guaranteed minimum family income that was never put into place in its original form, which up to an income at that time of $23,000 a year\u2014and this is the 1980s we are talking about; well over $40,000 a year in modern money\u2014had a 100 percent effective marginal tax rate. That is what Sir Roger actually wanted to be his legacy. But let us take this extraordinary argument. Sir Roger was always a wonderful person for making up figures and then expanding on them. Without the discipline of a whiteboard he gets terribly lost in the thicket of non-facts\u201490 percent of those earning less than $20,000 a year are high-income earners! This is his kind of reverse logic. Of course, 90 percent of those earning $200,000 a year are poor, whereas 90 percent of those earning less than $20,000 a year are rich! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ENow, of course, some people on low incomes are well-off, for two reasons. First, they fiddle their taxable income. That is probably the most important reason why they are rich. Perhaps the most important reason why most people are rich is that they have managed at some point in their ancestry to fiddle their taxable incomes, because most people who are rich have inherited their wealth, not made it along the way, and that also needs to be remembered. The second point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022779a14eea1f84b4488ae48c3296de28c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0ac6bdb90da43b387c2c69d16704d54\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, actually. Even in New Zealand, that is true. The second point is that, of course, some second-income earners in families have low incomes. It may be a spouse who has a partial income or an investment income that is small, and so on. But, of course, given what Sir Roger started with\u2014ignoring beneficiaries and superannuitants\u2014with one enormous, expansive wave of the arm, at least 800,000 New Zealanders disappeared just like that. There were 500,000 superannuitants as a start. They are not to be encouraged to work hard. He said that the purpose was to have the gap between earned incomes and benefits, yet he will not reward those people who are trying to move off benefits and have partial additional income whilst maintaining family responsibilities. If one is a sole parent and the choice is between earning $10,000 or $15,000 a year part-time, or $30,000 to $35,000 a year full-time, and one is trying to bring up three kids, what is actually the most socially desirable outcome in that situation? Will it always be the full-time job? In many instances it is better if that person can work part-time and receive some assistance from the State so as to spend sufficient time devoted to those children. I have to say that it is hard enough bringing up kids when there are two parents. When there is only one, it is a very hard job indeed. We cannot just ignore those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EEven then, if the worry that Sir Roger has is that some people on low incomes actually have high incomes, in the wonderful sort of world in which Sir Roger moves, where the people with whom he spends most of his time do not have high taxable incomes at all\u2014indeed, it is only when they have made a mistake that they have a taxable income at all, by and large\u2014then deal with that issue. This is complex enough already. Imagine the poor employer under the independent earner tax credit: \u201CMadam, have you got a partner?\u201D\u2014\u201CWell, I had one last week, I\u2019m not sure this week. We had a bit of an argument this morning.\u201D If people have a partner and they have kids, they do not get it; but, if they do not, they do. That will be a difficult one for employers, because if they are deducting this off at source at 10 bucks a week they will have to ask an awful lot of penetrating questions. This party opposite that is so keen to take the State out of people\u2019s homes is now putting the employers back into them and they will be asking questions in a world where life is very different from the old days of the married tax code and all the rest of it. And employers are going to have much-increased administration costs because of this, and much-increased compliances. They are not going to thank the Government at all for the enormous complexity of this mechanism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWhat we do know is that it is going to take money off lower-income people, because it is not quantified. The Government has had to quantify this. It told us clearly that $730 million over 5 fiscal years is the cost of making sure nobody is worse off, but that is the next 5 fiscal years. That includes this year and next year, when in fact it does not matter until 1 April 2010. The real cost is over $200 million a year. That is what is being taken off low-income earners earning between $14,000 to $24,000 year and families earning at least under $44,000. But many are actually earning more than that. If they are two-income families they can be earning well over $44,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223810d1baa3e44256a7adaf041db84896\u0022 data-id=\u0022e12c000e5e43444fb04b6425ffdf56d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223810d1baa3e44256a7adaf041db84896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e12c000e5e43444fb04b6425ffdf56d7\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER (Minister of Civil Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u002229168f58eea54ff0bf8abb2aefa8f232\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229168f58eea54ff0bf8abb2aefa8f232\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I do want to begin this intervention by acknowledging Sir Roger Douglas. For many of us, probably on both sides of the Chamber, his earlier work in Parliament was the stuff of legend\u2014or nightmare, depending on one\u2019s perspective. But he is one of the few people who have left an indelible imprint on this country\u2019s history, and it is certainly a matter of great moment to see him back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EIt is also very interesting to take this opportunity to reflect on the modus operandi that has been demonstrated in his first intervention. He started by redefining the question. The question we started with was: how do we make people better off through tax policy? He forgot that question, and answered his own question, which was: how do we narrow the gap between income bands, or between income earners and beneficiaries? So that was step 1\u2014redefine the question. It was done very quickly and done without drawing much attention to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EStep 2 was, \u201Cput aside beneficiaries\u201D. I think we should all frame that as a quote, because 800,000 people vote and they do not want to be put aside. They have families and they have needs, and we are here to protect them with our Green colleagues to make sure that they are not put aside. But the ACT Party wants to put aside beneficiaries, and let us only hope they cannot do too much damage to New Zealand before they are thrown out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EStep 3 was to say that he wanted to help those within the 21c tax bracket. Yet that seemed to deliberately fly in the face of the fact that at the moment, under existing law, they will pay a marginal rate of 12.5c in the dollar. Under the Act, the legislation that is being proposed that he is supporting, they will pay 21c in the dollar. So he has ignored the contradiction, and redefined the question. He wants to help people by almost doubling their marginal rate of tax! It is extraordinary, but he moved so fast through the contradiction that I am glad I was taking notes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EStep 4, of course, is the fact that his argument is completely useless because Bill English has already contradicted it in writing. Bill English has answered the question\u2014definitively and on the public record\u2014that people are $750 million worse off, because that is what it would cost to fund the motion that Dr Cullen put on the Table, taking him at his word that no one would be a loser. So I guess that step 4 in Sir Roger\u2019s mojo was to ignore the proof that was already lying on the Table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EStep 5, of course, was for us to recall that Sir Roger\u2019s idea of a progressive policy was a 20c in the dollar flat tax. That was the high-water mark of ideology that got him thrown out of the Labour Party. The impact of that would be the same as the impact of elements of this tax bill. Raise the tax on the poor to 20c in the dollar, and cut the tax on the well-off almost in half, from 39c or 37c to 20c, and somehow that makes everybody better off! The last time I read an argument like that was from Voltaire, who said: \u201CWe live in the best of all possible worlds by definition.\u201D Well, I hope he had a good whiteboard, because when one writes down the logic of the argument, it ties itself in knots real quick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022181cda43f43145148959c46e350c7f24\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t read Roger\u2019s handwriting when he does it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed8fb5537c344c4b9d62506fd23a020c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. We welcome him back. We are glad to have witnessed this extraordinary logical knot, and we are happy to have the opportunity not only to untie this knot, but to untie every other knot that he tries to tie New Zealand up in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EBut I will get back to this bill. What New Zealand knows definitively is that this is an ugly Christmas present for those working Kiwis who will be part of the $750 million bill that the Government itself tonight certified. I say merry Christmas to beneficiaries, merry Christmas to part-time workers, merry Christmas to 57-year-olds with a part-time income as they move towards retirement, and to those over 65 who are keeping themselves going and putting a lesser burden on the State. Merry Christmas\u2014the Grinch has arrived.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b1b7d17a0104ecd874c686d22db95eb\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon Pete Hodgson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223810d1baa3e44256a7adaf041db84896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249dc5d032a674d54b5b8aee2bddd99c9\u0022\u003EHon John Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. It is normal to alternate the calls from side to side, and our very good member Katrina Shanks actually sought the call at the same time as Mr Hodgson and Mrs King, and for some reason you chose not to do what is normal convention in this case and choose from the Government. I just draw your attention to the fact that Miss Shanks had called. You now have recognised Mr Hodgson and will no doubt have to proceed with that, but I just draw your attention to the fact there was a call from this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe57b510bffa4f6ba9a21069ecb4e42f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is correct. I have already given the call to the Hon Pete Hodgson; the call will stand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022 data-id=\u0022419e3e786dc04006b2f42b5d88b94999\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022419e3e786dc04006b2f42b5d88b94999\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I want to bring the debate back to the tax credits for independent earners, and just point out gently that the Government has broken a promise. National said in the course of the election that there would be a $10-a-week tax break for independent earners earning between $24,000 and $50,000, and that is not the case. The law that is being passed does not do what the rhetoric before the election said National would do. But it might\u2014it might. It would be easy to amend this. It would be easy to amend it, if the Minister in the chair would care to follow the debate, follow the bill, or follow anything at all, really; he could indicate whether his Government would be prepared to support an amendment to section LC13(5) in clause 31 by changing the amount of $44,000 to $50,000, because this side of the Chamber would gladly draft such an amendment. It would take a matter of moments; we could put it to the Committee, and the Government of the day could maintain its pre-election promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EIt is not a big promise that is being broken\u2014it is only $6,000; it is only $10 a week over that $6,000 range\u2014but it is a broken promise. It can be corrected. We have picked it up, and we are bringing it to the Government and asking whether it would like to fix it. We are happy to draft the amendment. Of course, the Government could draft the amendment itself\u2014we do not mind; we would vote for it, if the Government wanted to put it on the Table, or we could draft it for them. The Minister may want to take the call and indicate whether he would be prepared to support such an amendment. We can put it on the Table in no time at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EYou see, what has happened is that the $44,000 is where the rebate starts to bleed out. It is bled out by $50,000. That means that if one is on $49,000, and thought that one was going to get an independent earner\u2019s rebate of $10 a week, the news is that it will actually be about $1.50 a week. So that is a broken promise for that person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f82aa6ab8c8465e9ee410b420b7090f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220ec7d542819461b923b231e5be3f660\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: A dollar fifty a week. Someone on $48,000 will be getting $3 a week instead of $10 a week, and so on. So we have a Government that has managed to break a promise for every New Zealander who would be eligible for the independent earner\u2019s tax credit who is earning between $44,000 and $50,000. They will not be getting $10 a week, they will be getting less than that, something between $10 and zero a week. So I am saying that to the Minister in the chair, Jonathan Coleman, to see whether he would like to contemplate receiving an amendment on the floor of the Committee from the Opposition. Indeed, the Minister may wish to propose it. It is not difficult, and it probably is not very expensive. It probably is nowhere as near as expensive as addressing the problem of the fact that we are going to have higher tax on very low-paid New Zealanders than we would otherwise have. That is the real crime in this legislation, but this is a broken promise, because National told us about the first amendment, before the election. This amendment arrived this afternoon. This afternoon it became clear that the tax credit for independent earners was not as generous as National had promised in the course of the campaign, and if it would like to correct this clear, obvious, and unmistakable broken promise, then now is the time to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003ESo I will just say to the Minister in the chair that if he would like to nod I will write the amendment. It will be just a pleasure if the Minister would just nod. I am just trying to get something. What did I get out of that, Mr Carter? Did I get a nod? Is that a nod? Let me ask another Minister. Can I ask the Minister whether he would support an amendment to allow National, for not any great price, to not break an election promise? Are any National members prepared to agree to not break one of their election promises? Are any National members within the Chamber prepared to indicate to this Labour Opposition whether they would support any amendment that for not too much cost would stop them breaking an election promise? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EI am still not getting any answers. I ask Tau Henare whether he, as an esteemed member of the National caucus, will give me a nod of support that would be followed by his vote, if I were to put forward an amendment to make sure that National did not break an election promise. We have picked it up, we have pointed it out, and there is still time. We are in the Committee stage, and it can happen, ladies and gentlemen. This Parliament can stop the governing party from breaking an election promise. We are here to help, and we are very happy to offer this up. Would one member of the National Party indicate his or her preparedness? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e356a8493aeb4a40b8f9ea47c9f52f45\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbb33cc188cc49aea2a921a033386f32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e356a8493aeb4a40b8f9ea47c9f52f45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbb33cc188cc49aea2a921a033386f32\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u0022889dd5df6a9949568636ef509f8c4148\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022889dd5df6a9949568636ef509f8c4148\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This Opposition is a very, very fair one. We are very fair; we want to give the Government a fair go and a chance. So I want to start again. Let us start from the beginning of Part 3 and ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Dr Jonathan Coleman, to answer this question\u2014and he must take a call. We cannot have a Minister on his quarter-million-dollar salary sitting in the chair like a dried arrangement and doing nothing. He has to take some responsibility when he sits in that chair, so I want the Minister to answer this simple question\u2014it will not take long\u2014will the Minister reaffirm the claim made today by Bill English that no New Zealander will be worse off under these tax changes? It is a yes or no question, Minister. We are getting the Cheshire cat grin, but no reply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EEarlier today Bill English said that no New Zealander would be worse off under National\u2019s tax changes. Well, that is not true. That is not true, and we want every New Zealander to know that within 3 days of forming a Government, those members have reverted to form. They have gone back to the old Tory Government they were when they went out of office in 1999, and they have broken a promise within hours of being able to put legislation in this Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI tell members why it has happened. It is because National members worked on their tax package for a long time. There were a lot of arguments and a lot of changes. Mr Key could not make up his mind and he could not agree with Mr English. There was a lot of division, but finally they got it together. But did they release it to the people of New Zealand so that people could get a closer look at it? No, they did not. In October this year they released their tax package, within days of a general election. During the election campaign the National Party candidates could not even talk about their tax policy, because they did not understand it. They had not had it explained to them. In fact, their whole tax policy had been buried because what people did see of it was unpopular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EYou see, those members hid so much of it, and now, today, the truth is coming out. The truth is that if we look at Part 3, we will see that this is the nub of what they are doing. They promised that every New Zealander would be advantaged by their tax cuts\u2014every New Zealander. The members opposite know they said that. That is what those members said to the public as they went into the election campaign: every New Zealander would be better off. Are New Zealanders better off under these tax changes? No, they are not. Part 3 tells it all. This independent earners tax credit means that many New Zealanders will get nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EWho are these people? Are these people rich? Are these people undeserving? Or are they hard-working, independent taxpayers who do not have dependants, who go to work, do a 40 or 50-hour week\u2019s work, but do not earn the net $24,000 a year? They actually earn $23,999, but they do not qualify for this tax credit. They do not get anything. They are not good enough to get anything. But what did they think during the election campaign? What did they think when the National candidates said they would get a tax break? They thought it was them. They thought they were part of this tax package from the generous National Party. It is a fraud, it is a hoax, and many, many New Zealanders have been tricked into thinking that the National Party was going to provide them with a tax break. Small as it was, at $10 a week, they now get nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EJust think of the inequities of that. A good example would be two people who live together, but they do not have their own, independent income. One earns $24,000 net, and gets the independent earners tax credit, but the other person earns less than that, and does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2053af64b3f42eaaa049ff03ee508a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2053af64b3f42eaaa049ff03ee508a8\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a802721ca7c249a384df7e67cebfa03a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question now be put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022610b35230cb8445981da82f943f331ca\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that new clause 30A in the name of the Hon Dr Michael Cullen be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022da7fe1d52fcb4abc978f6a5bb36d67cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da7fe1d52fcb4abc978f6a5bb36d67cd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Can I just be clear, that this is the amendment in my name that ensures a compensatory tax credit so that nobody suffers in the difference between the current tax rates and the new tax rates, if he or she makes a loss on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217bcdc4ab3df4a47946419cb95e6ce48\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The question I have here is the amendment in the name of the Hon Dr Michael Cullen. This is the one. We are all clear on the question? OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u0022b64906fc1e134a2983437039e2037b94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b64906fc1e134a2983437039e2037b94\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I think the Chamber finds itself in quite an interesting situation. As members are aware, a document was presented on the Table and it was signed by the Minister of Finance; it was a signed declaration of a financial veto. Not only was it signed and distributed to Parliament and has since been distributed publicly, but it also happened on the basis of a quantification of some $750 million. That is a large amount of money. If it were the case that the Minister signed that document, it must be true, because otherwise he would have signed an inappropriate document\u2014and I am sure he would not have done that. If it is true, it cannot be withdrawn, because the Government would have grounds to apply the veto, and the Chamber finds itself in an extraordinary situation. Is the Government now committing to fund the motion that the Minister has proposed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022c06dd0cf8abb4c87926cecf6c587885b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c06dd0cf8abb4c87926cecf6c587885b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E My understanding was that the veto can be withdrawn. One assumes that the M\u0101ori Party has now been persuaded to vote against the amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b53cf7f871484361b211a89be6169ef8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say to the Committee that I have been handed by the Clerk a handwritten note signed by the Hon Bill English, Minister of Finance, stating: \u201CI hereby withdraw the financial veto\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Dr Michael Cullen to Part 3 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003ETo insert the following new clause:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E30A Section LC2A Compensatory Tax Credit for low-income earners and others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003EA person who under this Act would pay more tax than they would have done under the provisions of the Taxation (Personal Tax Cuts, Annual Rates and Remedial matters) Act 2008 shall be entitled to a Compensatory Tax Credit equal to the difference between the tax otherwise payable under this Act and the tax payable under the Taxation (Personal Tax Cuts, Annual Rates and Remedial Matters) Act 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223598f75d4343467a9b28e2a0cab58d53\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e84e1ac29b36474eaf30e3bf4be0b90d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 3 excluding clause 29 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 3 excluding clause 29 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d40fb75137b24b2aa589987372784ee5\u0022\u003EPart 4  KiwiSaver: 2% employee and employer contribution rates, and repeal of employer tax credits\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u002266f65fcd5c0044fab733c19dd39366c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266f65fcd5c0044fab733c19dd39366c7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E May I comment in passing that that was the most extraordinary vote I have seen in many a year: that the Government of the day would put on a \u201Chugely justified\u201D financial veto, told the Parliament and the public that it would cost three-quarters of a billion dollars to protect poor New Zealanders\u2014overwhelmingly and disproportionately M\u0101ori New Zealanders\u2014from the negative consequences of this bill, and then, once it had secured the support of the M\u0101ori Party to ditch the interests of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022190216828de24d9789c06fa2f0fbeab5\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We have moved on from Part 3; we are now on Part 4, which talks about KiwiSaver. I would ask that the member could bring it back to this part, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfa81cb3d2124488b5846c32570758dd\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a fair point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d831494da29248098d90e1fd08b61839\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a fair point. I confess my incredulity got the better of me, and I will move to Part 4. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EPart 4 is the single most important part of this bill. It is the single most important part of this bill, because it contains the lion\u2019s share of how it is paid for. $3.5 billion is being stripped out of KiwiSaver, and the Opposition parties will show in detail in this Committee stage of debate what is being done: precisely what changes are being made that cause KiwiSaver to be gutted; why once again the Government is not being full and frank in the way it is presenting these changes; the financial and economic effects of the change and the impacts on ordinary Kiwis; and, finally, why this is bad policy on any measure of the Government\u2019s own objectives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ELet me begin with what is being done. In very, very simple terms, the Government is proposing to change the so-called minimum contribution from 4 percent to 2 percent. Now that, of itself, does not ostensibly sound bad, and it did not sound bad in the election campaign. At a lower threshold more people might come in and it might improve uptake, one might think. Does it sound good, so far? A number of Kiwis thought it was a palatable change. Here is the not-so-fine print: it is effectively not a minimum at all; it is an effective maximum. Why is that? Firstly, because the default setting for any new worker is not now 4 percent but, under this bill, it will be 2 percent. We know, and the data shows, that most of the 827,000\u2014I think it is now\u2014New Zealanders who are in KiwiSaver came there through the default option when they took a new job. So it is being prejudiced from the start-off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe second, and perhaps most important, feature, is, of course, that the matching contribution is capped at 2 percent. So, technically, people could put in more than 2 percent, it is just that they would not get any return on it, because it would not be subsidised by either the Government or the employer. That accentuates the difference between the Australian scheme, which is a 9 percent\u2014wait for it\u2014purely employer-funded scheme, and the New Zealand scheme under this bill, which is now largely employee funded. Interestingly enough, the Government is also going to repeal the part of the KiwiSaver legislation that protects employees from the actions of employers who seek to offset against wages. It may come up with another solution to that problem, so I will not overemphasise that one. To make matters worse, when the Government realised that it had stuffed up in the campaign and over-promised to the tune of some $700 million because it finally figured out what had been obvious to Labour for months\u2014that ordinary working Kiwis on low incomes would have their actual annual contribution cut from $1,000 to $520, and it decided to restore that very sharp-edged Christmas present\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b14531c861164883a9c5399c7369b71a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Not quite!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b874b18efeb14601902e42489674e98b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Not quite, as Dr Cullen says, but that move cost the Government $700 million. It then did the Grinch act with the $40 enrolment fee to save $200 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9efa3bf0a004cc4961631edd0959e3e\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: How miserable is that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279990cc99f494c208538d2b04b5e383f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I hear people on this side of the Chamber outraged, and the well-suited gentlemen on the far side of the Chamber give not a toss. Why is that? Because for someone on the income of, I do not know, Steven Joyce when he sold RadioWorks, $40 is not a big deal. But for someone on a minimum wage of $12 an hour\u2014or something closer to $9 after tax\u2014$40 off savings is a significant disincentive. When that is combined with the fact that Government has just scrapped anything over a 2 percent contribution and one is going to get diddly-squat from one\u2019s boss, suddenly it is not looking so attractive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ENow we come to the next point. The Government\u2019s own analysis, provided in the introduction to this bill, was clarified by my esteemed colleague Dr Michael Cullen when he asked the question: \u201CWhat provision has been made for further enrolments, in the financial estimates for this bill?\u201D. The answer was \u201CNothing\u201D. Why is that? It is because the Government is not expecting anybody else to enrol, because it has just gutted the scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI want to cast our memories back to a particular moment for us\u2014one of the most hopeful moments of the election campaign\u2014which was the day the National Party announced its tax policy. Our tracking polls showed its support drop about 5 percent in a day, because this policy is a political lemon. It is a loser. A million Kiwis either enrolled in KiwiSaver or wished they could have. A million Kiwis thought it was great to have a nest egg, and mainly they are New Zealanders who are not of substantial means. Average-wage earners enrolling at 30 get about $420,000 when they retire. That is a big deal for them. That is the value of their home, and that, for many people I have talked to, is not only their principal saving vehicle, but also their hope for a better future. That hope has been taken away from them by a Government that does not seem to care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWhy? It has been done in order to fund a tax cut for the better off. Those who earn less than $44,000 and have kids will lose. Those on the average wage of $45,000 get $1.92 a week more. Whoopee! But those on three-quarters of a million dollars get $264 more a week. Wow! The Government is taking from the poor, gutting KiwiSaver, to give to the rich. That is fabulous stuff, and the Government has done that on its first day in the job! I could say: \u201CTold you so New Zealand.\u201D I wish I did not have to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240ca7af414ba4d7e8d02915a03e03c9c\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: So Labour got it wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a91a924003c7401296c2bcfebd7c5209\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The current Minister\u2014he may not last long, at this rate; a bit like Gerry Brownlee, the shortest-lived Leader of the House\u2014Mr English tried to enter a financial veto. When he realised it was going public, he quickly withdrew it, but, sadly, the damage was done, because the public knows it was a $750 million stuff-up. That is the second $700 million stuff-up that that Minister has made in his first week with a warrant. I tell Mr English that it is not a good start. We wish him luck from here on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EFinally, if this is inequitable, and if this is a very unpopular move, it is also an economically fundamentally stupid move. It is stupid, because if Bill English had not noticed, there is a global credit squeeze on. Presumably, that is the reason he wants to tilt the New Zealand Superannuation Fund into loaning to itself by having both assets and liabilities. He wants more savings in New Zealand but he is gutting the best single savings vehicle the country has ever known. It is bizarre. The only other example I can think of was Rob Muldoon killing that superannuation fund of yesteryear\u2014the Kirk fund\u2014whereas he said he would not. So in a sense we are used to that kind of double-talk from that party, but it is none the less sad for New Zealanders whose hope for the future is being sold down the river. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022 data-id=\u00228c8b6db55ef6421d914b7b4b1a176a60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c8b6db55ef6421d914b7b4b1a176a60\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I am intrigued by mention of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and I am looking forward to further debates on it with members opposite, although I cannot quite see it in this particular bill, the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. However, the member obviously has some strong opinions on it, as does New Zealand, because that matter was on the table before New Zealand again at the general election and people resoundingly endorsed the National Party\u2019s policy of up to 40 percent of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund being invested in New Zealand infrastructure, as opposed to offshore infrastructure and being exposed to various risks. As the member is no doubt aware, the recent updates included quite an asset write-down for the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. Perhaps 40 percent of that risk would not have been there if the funds had been invested in New Zealand in the first place. But, anyway, that is a debate for another day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EPart 4 brings in the 2 percent plus 2 percent option. It was interesting to hear the previous speaker, because as I noted in my first reading speech, I recall being at the Finance and Expenditure Committee when the original KiwiSaver legislation came through and there were strong submissions on it. It was agreed by the Green Party and the Labour members of the committee, and I think by the New Zealand First members, as well, that \u201C2 plus 2\u201D was very desirable and in fact, was quite pragmatic; it was not some political philosophy or anything like that. There was simply a recognition that many New Zealanders cannot afford to save 4 percent of their gross salary. It was as simple as that\u2014about 5.5 or 6 percent net. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003ESo I find it surprising that members opposite are arguing that it is a bad thing that we are going down to \u201C2 plus 2\u201D, particularly when some of the unions that contributed to their election fund were in favour of that at the Finance and Expenditure Committee. Business New Zealand was in favour of this at the Finance and Expenditure Committee. In fact, it is something that makes KiwiSaver\u2014and it was Labour\u2019s original policy\u2014more robust, more durable, more sustainable, and more affordable for all New Zealanders. It is as if, somehow, any higher contributions have been banned. This measure does not ban any higher contribution whatsoever; it simply allows the entry level to, and the durability of, KiwiSaver to be much more robust and sustainable at 2 percent plus 2 percent. If individual organisations want to negotiate different agreements with their employers, so be it. What is the problem? There is an interesting silence opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI imagine that the next speaker will be the previous Minister of Finance. In previous speeches he has talked about pension portability and about how at risk KiwiSaver is because of the agreement with Australia in relation to pension portability and the discussions on that. He said that the Minister obviously had not called Australia, that the Minister did not know what he was doing, and that it was all at risk simply because of this 2 percent plus 2 percent, rather than 4 percent plus 4 percent. If we read the press releases and watch television, we can see that, to quote the Australian officials, there is no problem whatsoever. The key to the agreement that the Australians had was the fact that KiwiSaver was locked away until the retirement age of 65 years, which is the same as their scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that the current Opposition finance spokesperson was trying to dissociate or separate the New Zealand KiwiSaver scheme from the Australian scheme, yet the previous Minister of Finance was obviously trying to bring the two closer. Maybe his hidden agenda was to income test superannuation, because that is what the Aussies do. I presume Dr Cullen will speak next, because we do not quite know about that. There is nothing at risk. Pension portability is not at risk. That is another red herring raised by that member opposite, who is trying to be clever. Obviously, he has far too much time on his hands, these days. I tell Dr Cullen to get used to it, but I am interested to hear his response, because to quote the Australians, again, there is no problem whatsoever with the changes that the National Government is putting before the Committee today to bring the minimum contributions to KiwiSaver down to 2 percent plus 2 percent\u2014locked in. There is no problem about portability whatsoever. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u002236ca568374464601acd40aa44daa07d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236ca568374464601acd40aa44daa07d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The point I was making was whether the Government had checked with Australia, which it had not. The Government drafted this scheme\u2014or launched its policy\u2014without thinking to ask the Australians whether it would affect portability. National did not even bother to ask. I know for a fact that no check was made with the Australians. I still think the previous speaker would be wise to wait longer for definitive statements from Australian Ministers, not from Australian bureaucrats, whom he was quoting in that particular respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ELet me take another point. The unions were not asking for a \u201C2 plus 2\u201D scheme. The unions were asking for the retention of the \u201C2 plus 2\u201D entry point, which then goes up to \u201C3 plus 3\u201D or \u201C4 plus 4\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa0c1dc76d7746f5b56c2fa7ea7cb396\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216c7f5199c394c8684878243c8cddf51\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes; over the next 2 years, which is what the current law provides, but is then phased out. The unions did not want to stick to \u201C2 plus 2\u201D; they wanted \u201C4 plus 4\u201D, but they wanted to make it easier for people to start in the scheme. The reason I said no to that was that it would have become much more complex for employers. If employers have to run 4 percent for them, and 3 percent for them, and 2 percent for them, it means large compliance costs for employers. But if the National Government had decided just to make that change, well, one would have accepted that it was always an arguable point. Nobody was arguing for a \u201C2 plus 2\u201D scheme, because it does not add up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa558b3715e4f35acb5e3f0efafd03e\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c6c7349a2d4eae9edc4791743801d2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It does not add up to anything like enough to make a difference. Why do members think Sir Roger Douglas had \u201C4 plus 4\u201D in 1975! Why do they think the Australians are on 9 percent now and talking of going to 12 percent or 15 percent? The sums do not add up, particularly when the National Government has removed the fee subsidy, which was a flat-rate subsidy designed to ensure a higher net return for small savers within the KiwiSaver scheme, whereas that now has gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThis is a scheme now that is so much less attractive. National opposed the KiwiSaver legislation when it was first passed. National opposed the extensions to KiwiSaver, and National has hated the success of KiwiSaver. The fact that well over 800,000 New Zealanders have joined KiwiSaver has got National members\u2019 bitterness, their bile, their envy, and their jealousy wrapped up. We have just listened to a member who is eligible to join a superannuation scheme based on a salary of $131,200 with an 8 percent employer contribution. He gets up on his hind legs\u2014he who is eligible for a more than $10,000-a-year employer contribution to his superannuation scheme\u2014and tells people on 30,000 bucks a year that they cannot get a 4 percent employer contribution for $1,200 a year. That is his idea of equity. No doubt it is because he thinks he is a hard-working New Zealander, whereas people on $30,000 are not hard-working New Zealanders. Talk about the politics of envy! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWhy are those members over there always envious of those on low incomes? A kind of strange reverse envy always comes across from them. Those members think that low-income earners do not do any work because they do not earn as much. They grade people according to their income\u2014the more one earns, the harder one must be working. Well, I tell Mr Foss that, in the real world, life does not work like that. A lot of people on low incomes work a lot harder\u2014and at much less attractive jobs\u2014than a lot of people on higher incomes. That is the reality. KiwiSaver has been hugely successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EMr Key has gone around the country in the last few years saying that New Zealand does not have a debt problem. Actually, we have the second-highest national debt as a proportion of GDP\u2014after Iceland\u2014in the developed world. What has happened to Iceland? It has gone down the tubes. The way that Iceland has gone over the last few months, Icelanders are almost hoping that the ice cap will melt so that half of them will drown. We will probably end up being the outstanding country in terms of national debt. We have an appalling savings record. We have had a net dissaving for year after year after year at the household level, and all that has disguised that in the last few years has been the strong growth in house prices. Now that that growth has gone, the reality is being revealed very, very clearly that New Zealanders are, as a collective, divesting themselves of assets at a fairly substantial rate. That is why so few people in retirement in New Zealand have any significant additional income. Some have a lot, but most people have next to nothing in addition to superannuation. They may get an extra couple of thousand dollars a year\u2014that is all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver was going to give ordinary people the chance to get into a subsidised superannuation scheme, lift New Zealand\u2019s saving rate, and change our whole psyche about savings in New Zealand. But National members are again telling us that we can consume our way to victory. It is as though we are in World War II and are being told we should\u2014not dig for victory but\u2014eat potatoes for victory. That would have been the National Party\u2019s slogan in the United Kingdom during World War II. People would not have grown things; they just would have been told to eat more because that would, somehow or other, solve the problem. National says we can solve New Zealand\u2019s economic problems just by consuming more\u2014much of it produced offshore\u2014rather than producing more and exporting that. We have to save more in New Zealand to produce more of our own capital for investment both here and offshore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThere is nothing wrong with New Zealanders owning more offshore, as that spreads the bets for our future retirement income within New Zealand. That income should not all be based on the New Zealand economy. In that respect, it is wise for us to spread our bets internationally. Sir Roger Douglas agrees with that. National is cutting the possible KiwiSaver contribution from both employers and employees from 4 percent to 2 percent. Employers will initially not be able to take the percentage off gross wages, but National will change the law again so that from next year employers can give employees who are in KiwiSaver a 1 percent pay increase and those who are not in KiwiSaver a 3 percent pay increase. Because National is taking away the employer tax credit, there is no incentive at all for any employer to contribute 4 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EFinally, let me deal with the question of the $20 a week employee tax credit. National has worked a con job on the media by convincing them that everyone will get the $1,040 a year\u2014rubbish. National has said that if an employer is contributing 4 percent\u2014that is, above the 2 percent\u2014it will match that dollar for dollar up to $20 a week. But if an employer is contributing 2 percent, National will still match it dollar for dollar up to $20 a week. So those on $26,000 a year will see their employee tax credit halved from $1,040 to $520. The media have completed misunderstood that. The Minister of Finance has done a con job in that regard. For ordinary employees, the total contribution to KiwiSaver has gone from 4 percent plus 4 percent plus $1,040 to 2 percent plus 2 percent\u2014and they may pay the lot themselves\u2014plus something less than $1,040. Their savings have effectively been halved, and in many cases they will be paying the same amount they were paying previously. In practice, they will end up paying 4 percent to get a bit over 4 percent, when they would have been paying 4 percent to get something like 10 percent. Is this addressing New Zealand\u2019s savings problems? Is this building a habit of capital accumulation? Is this a property-owning democracy? Is this driving stronger growth? Is this turbo-charging New Zealand? It is nothing like that, at all. Like the research and development tax credit, this is, yet again, a short-term gain for long-term pain. It is the exact opposite of what Sir Roger Douglas used to argue for. To be fair, he did get the long-term gain eventually; it is just that we had to undergo a lot of short-term pain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThis provision is fundamentally wrong. It fails to address one of our most important structural economic problems in New Zealand\u2014it has gone into the air as if, somehow or other, it is not important. It is crucially important in this country. We are in the middle of an international financial crisis, in part driven by the growing gap between savings countries and spending countries. National says we should be a spending country, continue on this huge, long, historic shopping binge, and not worry that someone, some day, will call in the bill. We have to get off that shopping binge. We in New Zealand have to start working, saving, producing, and exporting, but this bill\u2014and this part, in particular\u2014will help to destroy that ambition and destroy this programme that has not been given the chance to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u00222fae85a966734dab8593ea3324f32ee2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fae85a966734dab8593ea3324f32ee2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It was interesting to hear the previous Minister of Finance recast a number of his arguments. Today is the first time I have heard him describe KiwiSaver as the equivalent of the original Douglas scheme or the Australian scheme. Well, New Zealand has quite a different context from the Australians, of course. They have a sharply income and asset tested public pension; we do not. We have a relatively generous\u2014by international standards\u2014universal pension, and we are one of the only countries in the world to have that. On top of that, we have the Cullen fund\u2014named after Dr Cullen\u2014which has been pre-funded on a scale matched only by Norway, with its oil reserves. It is not matched by Ireland, despite the Irish economic miracle. Its pre-funding is about half the size of ours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EIn terms of public provision for pensions, we already have universal national superannuation, which is paid to everybody regardless of income, and we have pre-funding\u2014which, I might say, for the next 5 years will be funded from borrowed money. Now Dr Cullen has said that, on top of that, he meant KiwiSaver to be the equivalent of the Australian scheme. Well, the Australian scheme is designed to replace public superannuation\u2014that is why the employer contribution is 9 percent. Dr Cullen did not go around the country telling the public that it was always Labour\u2019s intention to replace national superannuation. That is a new rationalisation he has dreamt up today to criticise this policy. The fact is that New Zealand is providing adequately for retirement income, with a universal pension, which the Aussies do not have, with pre-funding, which the Aussies do not go anywhere near, and with the significantly subsidised KiwiSaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EIn fact, the jury is still out on KiwiSaver. A lot of people have signed up, but it will take time to see whether it achieves what Dr Cullen claims it will. Dr Cullen says that, unlike almost all other incentivised schemes in the world, it will unambiguously lift private savings. Well, it is not clear that it will. I hope it does\u2014I surely hope it does\u2014because the taxpayer is contributing billions of dollars to KiwiSaver to incentivise savings. But the fact that 800,000 people have signed up does not of itself mean that private savings have increased. They are increasing, because the cost of debt is high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EWell, here is one thing that Labour has not thought of: KiwiSaver takes away from people their choice to repay debt. If they join KiwiSaver they reduce their ability to repay their debt. People are not just some kind of automaton. They make complex financial choices across their consumption, their investment, and their debt. If many New Zealanders have a top priority now, it is to address directly the problem that Dr Cullen diagnosed\u2014and I agree with him\u2014and that is very high household debt. How do we get debt down? We pay it off. That is what we do. That is why this Government is putting tax cuts back into people\u2019s pockets, and reduced subsidies for KiwiSaver will make up for some of the reduced tax take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders have the option to spend more. Well, to keep the economy ticking along they do need to spend something, or to pay off debt. Most assuredly, they should pay off debt. Why would the Government automatically make a better choice than everyone else about whether to pay off debt? New Zealanders now understand the risks of debt. They have dropped their consumption remarkably, and with lower interest rates they will be able to pay off debt. In fact, one of the problems that this economy will have is everyone paying off debt instead of spending money. That will hold growth down in the shorter term, and cost people their jobs, but in the longer term it is an adjustment that may well be good for the country, because people will pay off debt. The simplistic notion that putting big subsidies into KiwSaver will fix everything is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe other argument is that KiwiSaver provides a pool of capital for local businesses. How many local businesses got $1 out of a KiwiSaver provider\u2019s investment? None, actually, and none will for some time, because a lot of providers, like a lot of Kiwis, rightly see that as somewhat risky. Let us have a more nuanced and intelligent debate about savings in this country, instead of these mindless slogans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022 data-id=\u00221d20f0912ddf4f0ea6841a5aee91b0e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d20f0912ddf4f0ea6841a5aee91b0e8\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I think the public would be surprised to know that the Minister who has just resumed his seat was the last Minister in this country to cut the pension. He reduced the floor below which superannuation could fall; he reduced it from 65 percent of the average wage to 60 percent of the average wage. I know that there is a word we are not allowed to use in this Chamber, but I would use it happily to describe what that Minister just did. He talked about what would happen to people under a particular position that has never been a proposition put forward in this country, and that is to do away with our national superannuation scheme. New Zealand superannuation has been designed to provide across-the-board access to support at age 65, and it is protected at its percentage of the average wage. The last time that was adjusted downwards, it was done by that very Minister when he was a Minister of Finance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI noted the statement in the explanatory note of the bill\u2014and some Government speakers have talked about this\u2014that the Government is committed to keeping the KiwiSaver scheme and making it an enduring and affordable scheme for members, employers, and taxpayers. But I think that is an absolute nonsense. I think that the lie to that statement in the explanatory note of the bill can be found in the reality that these changes have been designed only to pay for the promised tax cuts, which have been subsidised by some of New Zealand\u2019s lowest income earners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EActually, no one out there can understand why National has taken the knife to this scheme. It has been the best chance New Zealand has had for decades to foot it with other countries that have recognised the need to encourage a savings culture over many years. Those who have been committed to growing the depth in our capital markets, for example, were hugely welcoming of KiwiSaver when it was first announced. No one thought that National would take the knife to this scheme, under urgency straight after the general election, and ram through the changes without consulting anyone in our capital markets, without consulting anyone in the industry more broadly, and also particularly without the scrutiny of a select committee to consider the detail of the bill in order to take the time so that the National Party could be persuaded to soften the position that it is taking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI say this is an ill-conceived policy, and it is not one that is supported by the business community generally. Sure, some small-business employers will be happy to see the end of the 4 percent contribution. But they are not paying the 4 percent contribution at the low end of the income level, because there has been a direct subsidy to employers in return for that. In actual fact, the smaller employers were always going to find the 4 percent manageable under the scheme. The reality is that those who run our capital markets are absolutely devastated that this change has occurred to KiwiSaver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI listened to National candidates say that this measure has been designed to encourage more people to join KiwiSaver. After all, with over 800,000 people enrolled it is only about 150 percent more successful than Treasury originally forecast it would be. But the point has been made that nowhere has National budgeted for an increase in enrolments, because the bottom line is that it is not expecting any more enrolments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThis measure is not about encouraging low-income people to put aside 2 percent of their income and have it matched by a further 2 percent from their employers. It is not about developing a savings culture in New Zealand. It is about chipping away yet again at a Labour Government\u2019s attempt to get New Zealanders saving. The sooner the National Government realises that savings are important to the future of our economy, the better it will be. There is, as Michael Cullen pointed out before, extreme dishonesty in the way that National has pretended to keep the Government contribution at $1,000 a year, because of course it is not $1,000 a year if people are contributing only 2 percent of their income to the scheme as lower-income earners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI too am concerned about the situation, in terms of our trans-Tasman arrangement, over the question of portability. Why did the National Government not think to speak to the Australian Government before announcing these changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f15e35c888c64ded88e0bbe2c4f2d53c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f15e35c888c64ded88e0bbe2c4f2d53c\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to bring the debate on Part 4 back to where Dr Cullen was going with it. He talked about the real world, which he likes to speak about, although I am not too sure he inhabits it. It is certainly not a world he inhabits on the campaign trail\u2014that is for sure. When we were out on the campaign trail in provincial towns like Napier, KiwiSaver was one of the key things that hard-working Kiwis wanted to ask about. They wanted to know what National\u2019s position on it was. I visited many, many businesses, such as Reinforcing Steel and Mesh, Brebner Print, Napier Engineering and Contracting, and AllBrite, and talked to lots and lots of employees at the coalface.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EFirst and foremost, before touching on that, I congratulate the 800,000 people who have signed up to KiwiSaver. I think that is a good start to the scheme. Congratulations and well done! But Mr English is correct. The count is out as to how successful it will be. On a number of occasions when in Opposition I asked written questions of the Minister of Finance. I wanted to know how many of the 800,000 people who are in the scheme are on $50,000 or less a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f832ddad3fb042cfaf4bf265a160d9da\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: About half.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0bf81d422094ec28f73efb58ae026e0\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh rubbish! Half are on $50,000 or less? How many are on $40,000 or less? I asked written questions of the Minister but I did not receive any replies. He could not give me any answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bc51494cd85410c839f0ab8fc163f80\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: You can have those answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f544bcd6eb484582ab377710b2e2ea3b\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Can I? There were no answers to those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EWhen I was on the campaign trail I was out in the real world, talking to hard-working Kiwis. Guys at AllBrite, for example, are on $12.50 an hour, $13.50 an hour, or $14 an hour. They are hard-working Kiwis, working 50 to 55 hours a week. It is hard out there. I asked in the canteen how many of them were in KiwiSaver. Only one or two, out of 20, put up their hand and said that, yes, they were in KiwiSaver. I asked whether it was the 4 percent contribution that had put them off. Most of them said that, yes, they cannot afford it. People on $30,000, $35,000, or $40,000 cannot afford to contribute 4 percent of their income. When I asked them whether they would join up at a 2 percent level, not everyone in the canteen said yes\u2014that would be exaggerating\u2014but certainly a significant number above two or three said they would be interested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EWhy it is important that those guys at that end of the income scale get into KiwiSaver? Because right now they are missing out on that tax advantage. Right now they are missing out on the $1,040 that Labour is saying we are trying to cut out from under their feet. Actually, we are giving them access to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600f2eee78474d6b8937c71d0e5269d9\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b7330387f4497084eb4ff780b61dbf\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish? I say to Ms Fenton that one has to be in the scheme to get access to the credit. She should understand that. If one is not in the scheme, one does not get access to the credit. What we are doing is helping hard-working Kiwis to get into the scheme and get that tax break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022068d675c913b403d835b4fe63ace7ed8\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What a load of rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eae5f3e936024a7397c2894a8acd903e\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish? People have to be in the scheme to get the credit. Unlike the Labour Government, we are out there trying to help hard-working Kiwis. On the campaign trail, it was clear that Kiwis want the opportunity to be in KiwiSaver. People on under $40,000 want to be in it, and now we are delivering that opportunity. Just 32 days after the election, we are in the House, giving those Kiwis the opportunity to get into the scheme at 2 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022813a377fea834443a0c0c1ec569341f8\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: So why isn\u2019t the Government budgeting for an increase in savings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eee8876ef87463d806fd39a9de33f50\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: They can voluntarily put in 4 percent of their income, I say to Mr Hughes. They can go up to 8 percent\u2014so can the employer. They will get access to the credit. Employees around the country on low income levels will get a significant tax break. That is great. I am proud of what we are doing here today. We are delivering what we said we would. We were totally transparent throughout the election process about what we would do. Now we are delivering on our promises going forward. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022 data-id=\u00225a65d788b15f41cbbc80ac933a82c772\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a65d788b15f41cbbc80ac933a82c772\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E It is a fact that more than 800,000 people have signed up to KiwiSaver. I have just heard my colleague from Napier talk about going to workplaces and seeing only one or two people put their hands up to say that they have joined KiwiSaver. There are 800,000 people who have put their hands up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EIt was fascinating to listen to the Minister of Finance\u2019s assumptions about those who save. He said that our superannuation scheme is generous. It is generous if people are at the top end of the scale of pay and have a life whereby they can save. But for the 73 percent of M\u0101ori in this country who get nothing out of this tax adjustment, this is a sad, sad day. It is a sad day for M\u0101oridom. I am really sad that the M\u0101ori Party has supported this measure. I know that Hone Harawira knows better. I was pleased that, at least, he was on TV tonight talking about the next exercise, which is the 90-day stand-down period bill. Every member of KiwiSaver is worse off under National\u2019s adjustment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EThere will be trouble with portability. It will be very interesting to follow up Mr Foss\u2019 statement that he has it organised. That is hard to believe. Who was he talking to? The bureaucrats or the Ministers? It cannot be sorted out, because there is an incompatibility between the structure and design of the two schemes. I think he was telling a short one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EPeople are worse off. A M\u0101ori who worked in the 1950s, the 1960s, and the 1970s could never save because he or she was on a low income. The last time M\u0101oris ever got into saving was in the 1950s and 1960s when we had the little pink Squirrel savings books at school. I think P\u0101keh\u0101 had them too. Children had to take their threepence, or whatever it was, along to school every Wednesday and put it in. That is a similar alignment to the design of the National Government\u2019s KiwiSaver programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EI go back to the statements made by the leader of the National Party. They were very, very interesting. What did he say? He said he was and continues to be supportive of what Labour was doing in relation to KiwiSaver. I am not too sure, but I wonder whether the Minister responsible for this measure is waiting for him to trip up. Mr Key said in May 2008: \u201CWe haven\u2019t finalised our KiwiSaver programme yet, but there will be compulsory employer contributions. They\u2019re likely to be at pretty similar levels to what is outlined in the legislation at this point.\u201D That is what people talked to Chris Tremain about in those coffee shops during their lunch breaks. They talked about those levels. Then Mr Key said: \u201CWell we\u2019ve always said that we\u2019ve got concerns about certain aspects of KiwiSaver, we\u2019ve also said that there would be a KiwiSaver. I didn\u2019t like the first version that Michael Cullen had, because there wasn\u2019t really much in it, and that\u2019s why he beefed it up in Budget 2007.\u201D This is a sinister, manipulative, calculated move to undermine one of the best schemes in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003ELet us talk about low-income people who have never saved. What is wrong with contributing 4 percent? Mr Tremain\u2019s mathematics are quite interesting. He talks about the $1,040, but what he does not talk about is the fact that he has taken 50 percent of the injection into the accumulated figure. He has taken it away. He has flogged it. That will put pressure on low-income people, who will get nothing out of this. There was a culture that was delivering. People knew that in 7 to 10 years they would have a p\u016Btea, a nest egg, that would help them to go forward. Now there is an assumption that if we stimulate business and keep it all up in the macroeconomic area, around the big-business boys, they will trigger activity down at the bottom and everybody will be right. Never mind the poor people. Never mind the low-income people. That is what Bill English has done. He has gutted KiwiSaver, without going to the people, without declaring it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228779b00361494437be10b58f0b8265a8\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: We had an election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022741891f8e86448a58c405a12176f1c7e\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, National won the election\u2014that is dead right. But that is the sort of arrogance that is starting to spurt out in this House. It is sheer arrogance. They are taking from the poor and giving it to the rich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd36faf4840246b6ac02d3a8575f6100\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd36faf4840246b6ac02d3a8575f6100\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I think that when we look at this part of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill and the KiwiSaver aspect of it, it is important to look at the general nature of the bill and the general nature of what we are dealing with in the economy. We are dealing with an economy that is in recession. It has had 9 long years of poor economic management. It is an economy that needs new direction and leadership in a country that needs leadership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThere are young people out there who are training in New Zealand. They want to make New Zealand their home but they want to see a future in this country. They want to see a Government that will deliver a future for them so they can stay and work here. They want to see some reward and some incentive for their hard work and their direction. This bill does that. Not only does the independent earner tax credit do that but the KiwiSaver changes do that for young New Zealanders. Young New Zealanders who would not have joined KiwiSaver before because 4 percent was too high now have a chance to be part of that scheme. Young New Zealanders who want to make their future in this country now have a reason to stay here. They have a reason because we are giving them the ability to get into a savings regime that will deliver a future for them. Young New Zealanders will see a future in this country. They will believe in this Government, and they will see that we are delivering for them. We are giving substantive delivery so that they can make a constructive future in New Zealand. That is the heart of this legislation. That is the heart of what the National Party is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ENational is here to deliver for New Zealanders. We want to bring a new vision. We want to create an economy that is strong and growing. This measure will actually deliver that growing economy. It is the first step in delivering that growing economy, because it will send the right signals and give the right incentives to those young people to stay in New Zealand. If they know that they can be part of a savings regime, they will stay here and be part of the New Zealand dream that they want to buy into. We are giving them that chance\u2014a chance the Labour Government did not give them. That is why they were leaving in droves. They did not see a direction or a future from the previous Government. But this Government is giving them that direction and future. We will not just say the scheme is a Government-knows-best scheme, as the Labour Government did. We will give them the opportunity to partake in that savings regime. It is important that we do that. It is important that we give people that chance to invest in the future of their country. That is what we are doing through this KiwiSaver regime. The reduction from 4 percent to 2 percent gives people that opportunity. It gives them the chance to have a savings scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe worst thing that can happen is to have a scheme here that means the low-income people in New Zealand do not get the chance to save. If we have a scheme that is just for middle New Zealand, or for high-income earners, it leaves a whole generation of low-income New Zealanders without savings to top up their superannuation when they retire. That will be the dilemma that will face this country. The National Party does not want to see that. We do not want to see young New Zealanders on low incomes who do not have a savings regime, and cannot therefore supplement their superannuation in the future. We want to see them have their homeownership, we want to see them supplement their superannuation, and this is the opportunity to do that. This gives a chance to young New Zealanders to have a future here, to get into a savings scheme so that when they actually need that money it comes to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party does not care about them. Labour members do not care about the people who do not go into the savings schemes. As long as they can be in a savings scheme, that is all they care about. They do not care about the people who do not get into a scheme. They do not care about the low-income earners who cannot give 4 percent. They never have and they never will, because that is not how they think. But the National Party will deliver a structure that will benefit all New Zealanders. It is a structure that will deliver, and it is the structure the public wanted at the election. They wanted a chance to be part of the future of this country, and that is what this measure will do. We are giving more New Zealanders the opportunity to be part of a savings scheme and to build a better future for themselves. That is what National is doing, and it is something that Labour would not do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u0022e37a699904004140a905aada7dcefd7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e37a699904004140a905aada7dcefd7a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to start by referring to a statement made by the Hon Bill English in his last contribution, which stood in stark contrast to things he has been saying outside the House recently. In response to Dr Cullen\u2019s point highlighting the importance of KiwiSaver in improving the savings of New Zealanders, Bill English said that the effect of cutting KiwiSaver was being fed back to people in tax cuts that they would use to retire debt. I thought that the National Party was saying that the tax cuts were part of the fiscal stimulus that would increase economic activity. Mr English cannot use the money for two purposes. It is either a fiscal stimulus or it is being used to retire debt. It cannot be both. That will be recorded in Hansard, and I think it ought to be remembered next time National members point to tax cuts as being part of their fiscal stimulus package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u201CGoing for growth\u201D was the slogan yesterday and it is but a slogan. National wants to improve productivity in New Zealand. New Zealand workers already work very hard. We work longer hours than Australian workers. We work longer hours than most people in OECD countries. Our problem is not how hard our workers work, it is how productive the output of their labour is. Total factor productivity in New Zealand is poorer than in Australia because we have lower savings than Australia, and, in addition, so many of our important assets are owned by overseas owners because we do not save enough money to own our own assets and we are reliant on overseas capital to fund our assets. KiwiSaver was the key to fixing that. It made us more like Australia, where Australians have a 9 percent contribution to their savings scheme, all paid by the employer. The \u201C4 plus 4\u201D\u20144 percent from the employee and 4 percent from the employer\u2014under KiwiSaver, plus a $1,040 tax credit to the employee was pretty similar. New Zealanders would have started to accrue savings so that we could own more of our own country, so that we could invest in increasingly sophisticated plant and equipment so as to improve total factor productivity to add to the very hard work that is already done by New Zealand workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EBut, oh no, that sensible prescription for economic growth has been ruined by the National Party as a result of turning it from a \u201C4 plus 4 plus $1,040\u201D scheme into a \u201C2 plus 2\u201D scheme. National members say that the scheme will be more accessible to people, yet they have admitted that their projections are that no more people will enrol in the scheme. So the same number of people will be in the scheme but they will be saving less. How does that improve the wealth of New Zealand? How does it improve the productivity of New Zealand? The answer is that it does not. It does exactly the opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cddb3dc314d548ca8f63297f2fab795b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: No go for growth!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227420f389a2c41d2a8d9515876dd6e6b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, there is no go for growth. As a result of this, 800,000 New Zealanders\u2014the 800,000 people who are already in the scheme\u2014will be worse off. But even more significant is the difference between us and Australia. For a long time the National Party has been rattling on about people moving to Australia for higher incomes. Australians have higher incomes because they have higher total factor productivity and they own more of their own country. If we have less sophisticated plant because we cannot afford as much, because we have a higher cost of capital in New Zealand, or because we do not save enough, productivity in New Zealand will never get towards the productivity increases seen in Australia and the income gap will continue to grow. That gap stopped growing under the Labour Government. We had it halted, but, just watch, it will grow again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022 data-id=\u0022f24eaf05f39d493dac6ea7c4e87e73e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f24eaf05f39d493dac6ea7c4e87e73e2\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It was strange coming into the Chamber tonight and hearing Michael Cullen look for Roger Douglas\u2019 endorsement of what he was saying. I do not think I have seen that in 20 years. I thought that I must have walked into some sort of time warp, because Michael Cullen was citing the approval of Roger Douglas for what he was saying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EThe other thing I was concerned about was that I wondered whether Labour members actually realise why they lost the election. It was because they stopped listening to New Zealanders. One of the things they stopped listening to New Zealanders about was KiwiSaver. On the subject of KiwiSaver, up and down this country stacks and stacks of hard-working New Zealanders were saying to politicians who would listen that they could not afford and did not want to put 4 percent of their income into the scheme. Up and down the country people were saying that to all the politicians who would listen. Unfortunately for the country the only ones who were not listening are the ones who are not listening now, and that is the Labour members. The reality is that a lot of people are saying: \u201CGive us a 2 percent scheme. We will participate and join in a 2 percent scheme.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222508a461861c4d5395da29543c296901\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Who is saying that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b23486945ab41e98214b5b2b3e7e55a\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The people who were talking to the politicians who were listening before the election were saying that. Labour members were not listening and that is why they lost. There is still an excellent chance for people to contribute to their superannuation. The $1,000 has improved the whole scheme. As Mary Holm said today, it is a very good scheme now for both employers and employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EThe more important thing, which the Labour Party does not want to think about, is the long-term economic growth in this country. That is the bit it does not want to think about. It successfully drove long-run productivity growth in this country right down, over the 9 years it was in Government. Labour successfully drove down our economic growth projections, over the time it was in Government, and it does not know why. It simply does not know why. The reason it happened was that, fundamentally, Labour tried to control too much of people\u2019s incomes. Whatever way Labour did it, it put taxes up, it spent people\u2019s money, and it refused to give back to people more of their own money so that people had their own incentives to control their own lives, to work hard, and to get ahead under their own steam. That was the problem, and that is, ultimately, why the people of Auckland, in particular, voted the Labour Party out. Labour was imposing high tax rates on ordinary Aucklanders and people up and down the country, and 82,000 people voted with their feet and left this country because Labour would not listen and realise that people wanted the right to spend more of their own money, to make their own decisions on whether they would save or consume. \u201CNanny Labour\u201D was not the deal for controlling their income and the way that they spent it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EThere is only one solution to the economic challenges that we face in this country, and that is to grow a whole lot faster. The only way we will grow a whole lot faster is not by sitting here in Wellington and arguing over which percentage of people\u2019s incomes we will control; it is by reducing the amount we control, and giving people the opportunity to work and get ahead under their own steam. That is the only way we will do it, and that is why we have made the choices that we have made about KiwiSaver and the research and development tax credit\u2014to give New Zealanders a chance to have more of their own money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003EThey are not the easy calls. They are the calls that were never made by the New Zealand Labour Party while it was in Government, and that is why the growth rate was so low when it left, and that is why the long-run productivity growth was so low. Frankly, we could not afford to have those members any longer. The people of New Zealand knew that. They voted for change because they wanted a crowd that would listen to them and understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u0022faf7d97fcf714c4ca310a5363fe8612c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022faf7d97fcf714c4ca310a5363fe8612c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E This has been an extremely insightful discussion\u2014insightful because of the complete claptrap that the Government is reciting, having dredged the barrel for anything resembling an economic argument. David \u201CClich\u00E9\u201D Bennett fell back on the last press release that he read, which must have been a pre-election one, and then his lookalike twin brother, the Parnell yuppy, rehearsed his Crosby/Textor lines. This, apparently, is the man who is the king of listening: whatever the punters want, give it to them. What they did not want was their superannuation contributions, their savings future, capped at 2 percent. Nobody asked the National Government to cap employer contributions, nobody asked it to take away the $40 overhead subsidy, nobody asked it to take away the superannuation tax credit, and nobody asked it to take $3.5 billion out of the best savings scheme New Zealand has ever had. The ghost of Muldoon is stalking the Government benches: \u201CFind a good savings scheme and scrap it\u2014heh, heh, heh!\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ETo get back to economics for a moment, we have witnessed tonight David Bennett saying that the whole reason he is in this House is to care for low-income New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221782c8186a584971aed689d3e6e35ec7\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: And a brighter future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232a9e5855a8f49f09b658511b3cb635a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: And a brighter future. It almost brought tears to my eyes, but my enthusiasm for his religious conversion was tempered by the fact that the Minister of Finance not an hour ago had to withdraw, through embarrassment\u2014his butt having been saved by Hone Harawira\u2014a financial veto relating to a $750 million kick in the guts for low-income Kiwis just before Christmas. So when David Bennett goes home and rereads his clich\u00E9s, he should think about how what Mr English has done affects the people he purports to serve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EBut, getting back to economics for just a second, I wonder whether anyone on the Government benches understands the savings gap. I hate to do Economics 101 on my first week in this job, but it seemed to me that the fact that Kiwis were spending $1.20 for every $1 they earned, because they thought they were becoming wealthy because their house values were going up\u2014that is called dissaving\u2014was offset by the surpluses that our Government was running. If members opposite do not run Government surpluses, and are now spending us into debt, they are borrowing to pay for these tax cuts. If Kiwis are not saving, do members know what happens? Our current account blows out even further. Our current account deficit is the difference between what Kiwis are borrowing overseas, and what we are earning through exports, and what the Government is saving on Kiwis\u2019 behalf. So the consequences of this ill-fated move go beyond taking away ordinary Kiwis\u2019 nest eggs. They gut the Government saving on Kiwis\u2019 behalf, and KiwiSaver was the one tool that was fixing that long-run problem. And now, by National members\u2019 own admission, they have killed it, because their own books make no provision for new enrolments, and they are too scared\u2014where is the point of order for my saying they lack bottle\u2014to put the future debt track out there so that all New Zealanders know how far in the shtook this is going to get us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223468844267e34c40be47c4c15eefb789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7526a3e50df445882b0cae08d64ab04\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: The debt track\u2019s yours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242a7ea61917e40a79624cc230da912bc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, sir! When we were elected we inherited a gross debt to GDP ratio of\u2014wait for it\u201435 percent. We got it down by half. Can Mr Bakshi do those sums while he is still here? That is half. My great fear for New Zealanders is that through the ill-fated efforts of the new Government, the debt track will go back to the 35 percent that we inherited in 1999.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214b6bfab7a8a4300a37359fd9c699be4\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Decade of deficits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203fbdf126147473193a74261a0c1c9f7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: It was not a decade of missed opportunities, because we did a hell of a lot to cut the ratio in half, but members opposite have squandered in a week what it took New Zealanders 10 years to build up. And why? The media, the press gallery, and the public know that the real reasons for this bill are not economic, and they have nothing to do, I say to Mr Bennett, with helping low-income New Zealanders, because those members have just kicked them in the guts by three-quarters of a billion dollars at Christmas. This bill has everything to do with rewarding constituencies. That is why the lion\u2019s share of the tax cuts go to the best-off\u2014they happen to be the voters who are the most faithful to the National Party\u2014and that is why those members have penalised real businesses and rewarded the financial sector\u2019s soft-shoe guys. The games that have been played to cover this up, the half-truths that have been told, and the rubbish economics that have been paraded would make one wince.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESome of those members cannot tell the difference, but I fear for New Zealand, because I know that the Minister of Finance is better than that. He can tell the difference, but he did it anyway. He knew all along that there was a billion-dollar kick in the guts in this bill, but he did not tell us until Dr Michael Cullen forced him to by putting an amendment that asked him to insure low-income New Zealanders against the effects of his policy. And then he said: \u201COh, you got me. OK, I will veto it. Here is the financial veto.\u201D Stupidly, he made it public; stupidly, he signed it; and, stupidly, he gave us the number. It is now on the Internet\u2014$750 million, with the Minister\u2019s signature beside it. You are too late\u2014sorry, not you, Mr Chairman. The Minister of Finance then withdrew it, throwing National\u2019s new coalition partner deeper into mana-depressing territory, because its mana was used to bail out your lack of honour. You did not tell New Zealanders what was coming. You surprised them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d350552f14b0408081b39378c52e99bc\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The Chair is obliged to enforce the conventions of the House. This member has been using the term \u201Cyou\u201D incorrectly, as have other members of the Opposition yesterday and today. I suggest that you let the Opposition members know that they are not to bring you regularly, and generally in a derogatory way, into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea1e0a4eda2f4ce39e25373d46ca58f9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a684aaec49140498cd6b16fc158b3d8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chairman, I certainly withdraw and apologise for drawing you into the debate. There was no intention to do that, and it was quite inadvertent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Finance is the one who has trashed the mana of the M\u0101ori Party. Our team has tonight provided to New Zealanders the fact that something like 71 percent of all M\u0101ori earn incomes of less than $40,000. That means some 71 percent of M\u0101ori people, if they have children, are in the category of people who are net losers from this bill. They are part of the crew that is paying the $750 million bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233ed6e456f1f48048ff855a3d1ebd2ba\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member is an experienced former senior Minister. We are talking to Part 4 of this bill, and he has gone back to Part 3. I ask you to ask him to talk to Part 4, which has the provisions relating to KiwiSaver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cda858e0ff14e67a2b72af276ddc9cc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Chairperson, I respectfully submit that earlier there was a very similar point of order from Mr Foss on exactly the same point. Because of the interdependencies between the spending provisions of this bill and the funding provisions, your alternate Chairman ruled that it was in order to draw those links. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ae10271261e4668aa28a4c8cd2ad1b2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256dc78bfd7a44e60a5429f002f4b3394\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman. New Zealand has a historical problem of a savings gap. It was held off by the fact that the Government was saving on New Zealanders\u2019 behalf. The structural solution to that problem was KiwiSaver. It has worked a dream. It has exceeded all expectations. There is no justification for the Minister of Finance to even raise the suggestion that it has not increased net saving, because 827,000 New Zealanders who were not saving are now saving massively through this scheme. OK, there may be some diversion, but the chances of it being 100 percent are nil\u2014absolutely nil. That is a red herring, one of many floated by the Government tonight, because it knows that it is on very shaky ground here. It knows there is no economic justification. There is no logical linkage between undermining one\u2019s savings programme and one\u2019s incentives for innovation in order to fund a short-run consumption increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1803b35b3ec42fbaee41a9e24dc4b15\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: So why would they do it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022194ec36acb6a45a894a91ae4d7aa0e35\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the politics are plain. National does it because it rewards constituencies that have been faithful to it. Upper-income earners and the financial sector are the beneficiaries, and they just happen to be the main donors to the National Party. Do we see any potential connection here? After years of trying to get National elected, they have finally got that, and on National\u2019s first business day it has put the interests of its core constituencies ahead of the interests of the many New Zealanders who are going to pay the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe strategic mistake that National has made is that it is just a bit too obvious. If National members had waited until some time next year to introduce this measure, perhaps they would have snuck it through with less public concern\u2014but actually I think we would have called them on it. The fact that they are trying to ram it through without select committee consideration, with an enormous lack of mana\u2014in fact, lowering the mana of this whole House and of every Minister of Finance who has gone before Mr English\u2014is what is truly sad about this legislation. It is bad economics; it is bad, I say to Mr Bennett, for many low-income New Zealanders, because many of them will lose; and it is bad for M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b06051cb2c499e82db69cda687f409\u0022 data-id=\u0022c92cb38804d1422e8ab852d101bb75d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b06051cb2c499e82db69cda687f409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c92cb38804d1422e8ab852d101bb75d9\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E I move that the motion be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5d1aac46b18440cbca8d88474400cd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5d1aac46b18440cbca8d88474400cd7\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to make my first contribution on this bill. I would call this a very disastrous bill, particularly Part 4. This is a bill that gives big tax cuts to people on high incomes but increases in taxes to people on low incomes. Part 4, which I will endeavour to address\u2014unlike lots of members of the Government\u2014guts KiwiSaver by halving employer KiwiSaver contributions. It caps workers\u2019 contributions at 2 percent, rather than the choice that workers had before of 2 percent or 4 percent under the Labour-led Government. Of course, employer tax credits are abolished. I want to explain to Government members, who have tried to say this is about helping low-paid workers, and who have terribly misrepresented the union movement\u2019s position on the 2 percent contribution, that what the unions were advocating was an option of 2 percent as a minimum. No one supported removing the 4 percent minimum. What happens under Part 4 of this bill is that employers will not be contributing 4 percent. They will be contributing 2 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229df24662afc84196b37e6fe9899da8e3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: As a maximum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c22a7f499574cae8cf4f87183dae6d1\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. Over a lifetime, that adds up to hundreds of thousands of dollars for many low-income and, indeed, many higher-income workers. That is the objection that members on this side of the Chamber have to the changes to KiwiSaver. There are many others, but that is the main objection I want to point out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EThe problem with this is that many unions and employers have already gone in and made agreements around the previous KiwiSaver scheme. Many have agreed to 2 percent plus 2 percent, with an agreement that in future it will go to a 4 percent contribution. The problem with this bill is that in the future it will be really hard to persuade employers to contribute more than 2 percent. It will mean that some employers are going to put pressure on workers to fund the employer contribution out of a wage increase. Workers should be able to choose a 4 percent supported option, and already hundreds of thousands have. The implementation of the changes under this bill will mean that these workers will be significantly disadvantaged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003ELet us talk again about low-income workers, the workers who are going to be paying more under National\u2019s tax plans. These are the workers that I am particularly concerned about; for example, the caregiver in aged care who earns $12.50 an hour, who is going to pay more in tax in 2010 and 2011 under National. Now, those workers\u2019 chance of having a savings scheme that will help them when they are older is being gutted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI do not accept the argument that low-paid workers have not signed up for KiwiSaver. In fact, there has been specific research done on it by the Inland Revenue Department. That research is on the website, if members choose to look at it, and it shows that a large number of low-paid workers have signed up to KiwiSaver. Do members know why? It is the only chance they have ever had to have a superannuation fund where the employer is making a contribution. I know that thousands of workers have tried for years and years to negotiate an employer contribution in their bargaining. Those workers who do not have any power and who struggle to get a decent wage increase year in and year out have suddenly, thanks to the Labour-led Government, had an employer contribution that was going to see them enter their old age with a decent pension on top of the State pension. As I have said, those workers stand to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars over a lifetime of saving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003ETo add insult to injury, we now find out they are going to have to pay the fee of $40. How mean, how miserable is that! It has taken years and years to get this scheme. When was the last one? Was it 1975, the one that Muldoon abolished?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a3ec3e052984df79432e294b6daa281\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: About then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267aacea5c58e4cdf9a30b359a558fcf7\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: They have waited all of those years to get a compulsory workplace savings scheme, and here it is being gutted by the National Party in its first week in Government. It is absolutely shameful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is very concerning is National\u2019s intention to allow employers to take KiwiSaver contributions out of wage rises. That will result in employers putting more pressure on workers to forgo wage increases in order to cover the employer contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223810d1baa3e44256a7adaf041db84896\u0022 data-id=\u00220313cda6cc56485985a10c8d8ddbe7c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223810d1baa3e44256a7adaf041db84896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220313cda6cc56485985a10c8d8ddbe7c0\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER (Minister of Civil Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u00227819acfa3b21425ca6ac701200c4f165\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227819acfa3b21425ca6ac701200c4f165\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill is another example of a bill the Opposition has received just as the debate has started. If there is not going to be select committee consideration of these bills, and if the Opposition is not going to get the opportunity to read them before the debate starts, it is important that we get the chance during the Committee stage to ask questions of members and of the Minister in the chair, Bill English, in particular. If we cannot do that, it will mean these important bills go right through the legislative procedure with no proper scrutiny\u2014because we can guarantee the Government caucus will not have asked any questions when Cabinet took it to the meeting. There will have been no proper chance for transparency on this legislation. We need to use this opportunity to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EI have some questions to ask the Minister of Finance when he has finished sending text messages and smiling about how smart he is. My first question to him asks how many extra people will join KiwiSaver because of this change in Part 4. I am asking the Minister of Finance how many extra people will join KiwiSaver because of the changes he is introducing in Part 4. Can he give me a number?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233149e9117dd4d29b0a1ead4ee0e4376\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: How are you going to know that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cb2376345b04ceb814a8d2d3fa73a97\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Tremain asks how we are going to know that. Every single speech that National Party members have given tonight, including the speech made by Chris Tremain, has said that halving KiwiSaver contributions will open the floodgates to low-income workers wanting to join KiwiSaver. When I ask Government members whether this will lead to 10,000 or 20,000 extra people joining a year, they laugh and say nothing about it. They have no answer. Chris Tremain used the basis of his speech to tell us that this change in Part 4 will make sure that lots of other people will be able to join, but those members will not answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc7c2b66cedb4006b6cdfaf9a0f73175\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf7c249286e74d83b0125fbfc332eef3\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I have already asked the Minister the question. The Minister knows what it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228178105afc024783a32615bcbadbdfdf\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: How many people voted against you in the \u014Ctaki seat?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb57633b38814a81be8c6eadeb076b99\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Not many. I tell the member that, yes, I was defeated. Oh yes; \u201CMr Comedy Show\u201D over there thinks he is David Letterman, but that is about half an hour away. The only joke Bill English knows about defeats is the 2002 one, because out of every member sitting in here, there is only one man who had the worst defeat in 100 years, and it is not me; it is Bill English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227127de5bcd2046ff86f7e94d69227891\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022550e0781286c4a7aa81b6f8acf7542af\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: He says he is back. He thinks he is the leader of the Government. He thinks he is the Prime Minister of New Zealand, but we know he is not. He is the also-ran, and when I asked him a serious question about people joining KiwiSaver, he had nothing proper to say, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EThe KiwiSaver scheme is the one that National members said was nothing more than a glorified Christmas club. They voted against it in droves after we introduced it. John Key said that the only person it would be good for was his pool boy, which I thought was an extraordinary revelation. Those members said the scheme was a glorified Christmas club and not worth anything whatsoever. Then New Zealanders joined, and they joined not just in the numbers we thought they would\u2014and we were an optimistic Government, a sunshine Government; we looked at things and said this would work\u2014but in numbers four times that amount. Tonight the number of New Zealanders who have joined the KiwiSaver scheme stands at 827,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EWe are told that if the benefits of KiwiSaver are reduced, if the entitlements people get from KiwiSaver are halved, as in Part 4, then, somehow, more people will join. National has no answer, except to say that halving the contribution will make more people join\u2014and Annette King said that if it is zero plus zero, then even more people will! If four plus four is so terrible that two plus two is better, then maybe zero plus zero would be better, or, even better, maybe 2 percent from the worker and 4 percent from the boss. But National members did not want to go for that one, either. Why is National not giving a choice in Part 4? I thought National was the party of choice. It could have said it would introduce a third level into KiwiSaver, which could be either \u201C2 plus 2\u201D, \u201C4 plus 4\u201D, or \u201C8 plus 4\u201D. National could have put more choice into KiwiSaver, but, instead, it is shutting the door on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EThis whole bill is a disaster. We are opposed to the whole thing. It is amazing that some of the parties in Parliament are voting for it. It is amazing that the M\u0101ori Party is voting to put taxes up for some people. It is amazing that the ACT Party is voting for it. Roger Douglas wrote books about the fact that the scheme he helped with back in the 1970s was abolished. He said it was one of the biggest missed opportunities, yet, on his first week back in Parliament, he is voting out another scheme that is for savings, for the economy, and for working families across our country. So it is amazing to see the number of parties that are lining up to vote against it. What they are doing is a mistake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EOut of all the parts in the bill, this part is the worst. The reason is that this part will have an effect on New Zealand for the worst in 20 years\u2019 time. This part of the bill changes the choices people can make in their working lives, and in 20, 30, or 40 years\u2019 time they will not be able to go back and change those choices. People cannot go back and save more once their working lives are over. Tax rates go up and down, of course, with political debate. We know that. That will happen throughout political history. But those members opposite are shutting the door on a chance for working people to build up their savings over their working lives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022141bdf0ee67a4513bf2a11fc421e4789\u0022 data-id=\u0022a88651c4e23b48b7992b8cf03398f088\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022141bdf0ee67a4513bf2a11fc421e4789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a88651c4e23b48b7992b8cf03398f088\u0022\u003EHon PANSY WONG (Minister for Ethnic Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d895bc41c35c452d8587c4845e2ada15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d895bc41c35c452d8587c4845e2ada15\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The closure motion, of course, is in your purview, and yours alone. I make the point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e950f2bd052046d582ca962e71511d59\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: It is. I refer to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fc5aaf2ece64ae18e255eca2d0a794a\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague Moana Mackey has been calling all evening trying to get a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f2fd46cb7924e94b84c797124d08662\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I refer to Speakers\u2019 ruling 60/7. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cb419406b8304830a20f705819748f5b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 7; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001093\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon David Cunliffe to clause 55 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001094\u0022\u003Eto omit this clause.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221d2b995eed4c4a4dba228eb2b0c3b668\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 7; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001095\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon David Cunliffe to clause 56 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001096\u0022\u003Eto omit this clause.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022391abb0affc8441ea99f1f43da0e48c3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 7; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001097\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon David Cunliffe to clause 58 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001098\u0022\u003Eto omit this clause.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022877e204746d346949b710b8cd58afdfe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 7; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a4b7b908f62b40e5b9e26a0ff8eac861\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 7; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f10a045a77949b89b1dd00291c4aa2c\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u00222c99688d95ae491b85ab0fb933043262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c99688d95ae491b85ab0fb933043262\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E It is appropriate in the Committee stage debate of the title clauses to recall the overall significance of the measure that they represent. This has been an extraordinary debate so far on an extraordinary bill. What is clear, which will no doubt carry through into the third reading debate, is that thanks to the loss of mana by the M\u0101ori Party the Government will have the numbers, sadly, to pass this bill, and thereby these clauses will be enacted. That, I think, we can take as a given, based on the voting patterns so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWhat has become equally clear through the debate is that there is neither a valid social justification nor any valid economic justification for the measures that are proposed. There has been a growing recognition throughout the House, in the media, and amongst the commentators that when we strip it all away the bill is about politics, it is about who gets what, and it is about rewarding constituencies. It is not about growth, it is not about savings, and it is not about good policy design. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ELet us recall that the bill that these clauses represent is going to cost New Zealand about $5 billion. Of that $5 billion, $3.5 billion comes from gutting KiwiSaver: providing not a 2 percent option but, effectively, a 2 percent cap, and thereby taking away with it not only the best chance working New Zealanders have ever had to have a nest egg\u2014a big nest egg on retirement\u2014but the hopes and dreams of many New Zealanders who had just started to believe that maybe they too could have a pool attendant like Mr Key one day. But those dreams are gone. So has the dream of paying off the mortgage when they can cash in their KiwiSaver, because 2 percent plus nothing will not go very far. It will cost the average income earner, starting at 30 years of age, about a quarter of a million each by the time he or she retires\u2014thank you, National Government! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESo the real losers today are ordinary New Zealanders, but the other loser here is actually the National Party, interestingly\u2014and ironically\u2014enough. Up until today National had done a pretty fair job of telling New Zealanders they could have everything they had under Labour. The polls were very clear. We were not a Government that was reviled by New Zealanders; they just thought maybe it was time for the other guys to have a go. We will find out in 2011. All of the data is showing that most New Zealanders thought that the economy under Labour was well managed, that the Government was doing a good job, and that overall it acted in New Zealand\u2019s best interests. It is just that they were a bit bored and thought they could have all of that and some new faces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe real problem with this bill\u2014the bill supported by the title clause\u2014is that the title should be the \u201CEmperor\u2019s New Clothes Bill\u201D, or the \u201CWolf in Sheep\u2019s Clothing Bill\u201D, or the \u201CNew Zealanders Start to Come to Their Senses Bill\u201D, because it dashes the hopes of the million New Zealanders who were KiwiSavers and it gives a kick in the guts to those Kiwis who were paying the self-admitted veto-driven $750 million loss that Bill English first confessed to, which is now on the Internet, and which he then withdrew\u2014that was extraordinarily inept for his first week on the job. That is almost historic. I have never seen a financial veto withdrawn and taken off the Table after it has been posted on the Internet. Extraordinary! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThose people will not forget this. They will not forget this, because on our first day of business National dropped all pretence and reverted to type, just like Ruth Richardson\u2019s first week on the job. Bill English once presented himself as the centre candidate in the leadership race against John Key\u2014and why is it, by the way, that Mr Joyce is sitting right behind Mr English? We will figure that out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bef86326ddc46419cdc33da4fd9090d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: He gets to stab Bill before Bill stabs John!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022029019cfe12446309eea5f533183cd2f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I figured that might be something to do with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESo we know who the losers are. I actually think one of the biggest losers here is the M\u0101ori Party. We had been hoping to build a working relationship with the M\u0101ori Party because I think there is some stuff we need to work on together. I fear that those members are not going to be here in 2011, because the majority of M\u0101ori Party voters, who voted Labour with their party vote, are not going to be impressed by the fact that the only reason that this veto was not needed, and the only reason they are not getting the $750 million insurance cheque from Michael Cullen\u2019s amendment, is because Hone Harawira and his mates supported that bill. It is the beginning of the end for the M\u0101ori Party. It is like the foreshore and seabed legislation in reverse. This is the beginning of the end of the M\u0101ori Party, because it has put itself, let us hope unwittingly, in the situation of propping up a National Government that is already showing itself to be different from what it told the electorate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ad8a7a2096b408e99516355c99841a5\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: And what they told the M\u0101ori Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225320fc6c95e84d2f88c487d548db3857\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and what they told the M\u0101ori Party. So I feel kind of sorry for them in this because they have been taken for a ride. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThis bill could also be called the \u201CBad Economics Tax Reform Bill\u201D. It is bad economics for four principal reasons. The first reason is the savings gap is one of New Zealand\u2019s enduring structural economic problems, and it is one of the most important legacies of the outgoing Government that there was a structural solution that was working well. This guts it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe second principal reason is because the measures in this bill are the opposite to productivity enhancing. They are funding a tax cut that will be either frittered on consumption or, perhaps, squirrelled away and have no multiplier. But either way\u2014and Mr Bennett cannot count it twice\u2014it does nothing for the drivers of growth. It does nothing for technology; in fact, it does the reverse. It cuts the research and development tax credit that was being used to good effect by our most innovative businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe third reason it is bad economics is because it was never going to be an appropriate solution to a relatively short-run cyclical recession problem. It is a structural tax cut, which Treasury itself has confirmed was inappropriate. Members should read the bill, which says it was inappropriate. The briefing to incoming Minister states it was inappropriate. The flow-ons have not been quantified, and the briefing to incoming Minister makes it clear that after $9 billion of stimulus from the Labour tax package in Budget 2008, another $5 billion was imprudent. Between Budget 2008 and now\u2014wakey, wakey!\u2014the world financial markets have gone into a tailspin. That means it will be harder to borrow and banks are having to get expensive credit guarantees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EAgainst that background the last thing we need is to be driven further into debt. I tell New Zealanders that the fear is that we will be driven so far into debt that the decade of prudent management inherited from the outgoing Government will be wasted. We started off on 35 percent sovereign gross debt to GDP. We got it down to 17 percent. My bet is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222910144ad15445fa933e2663fec4c1b0\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: At $48 billion. How can that be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c922c1b3736402993929b6c852e0c52\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Tremain that National will not actually tell us. National will not publish the forward debt track. My bet is it is back up to 35 percent, in part as a result of this bill, and in part, admittedly, as a result of factors beyond the control of all of us. But it is not an appropriate solution to a cyclical problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EFinally, this does not maintain a prudent stance in the markets. Both this and talk about driving the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to override good process and forcing it to buy assets in New Zealand will push up the price of assets, it will push up the price of debt, and it will make the borrowing problem worse. It is bad financial economics as well as bad real sector economics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EBut let me conclude as I began this summary under the title clause. I think New Zealanders now know it is not about economics, it is about who gets what.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022 data-id=\u00226e85000677d64b11befe7b1477594cf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e85000677d64b11befe7b1477594cf5\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to talk to the title of this bill, and to suggest some other titles that perhaps we could consider. It is the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. It is actually very, very urgent. Perhaps, when the Minister of Finance was drafting this bill, he considered naming it the \u201CLabour Still In Denial Bill\u201D. Those members are totally in denial. They are still not listening, as my colleague the Hon Steven Joyce pointed out before. They are not listening. They have not been listening for the last few years, they were not listening during the election, and they most certainly are not listening now. In every speech from the minute we started to debate this bill yesterday until now\u2014and, no doubt, during the third reading\u2014they have been totally in denial. They have been furiously looking around, trying to make themselves busy and trying to find a couple of academic points here and there. They are actually contradicting themselves from speaker to speaker. From the previous finance Minister to the current finance spokesperson, they are totally contradicting themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThen we got some lecture from the spokesperson over there about cycles and all that. With regard to the denial part, he said something about a short recession. The Reserve Bank predicted New Zealand would go into recession late last year and early this year, and New Zealand followed its prediction and forecast. The Labour Government led New Zealand into recession long before any other country went into recession\u2014in particular, the countries we compete with. New Zealand is still in recession and, sadly, it looks like we will stay in recession for a bit longer. None of us in this Chamber wants that, of course, but that is the situation, and members opposite should not deny it, because by denying it they are not doing their\u2014probably short\u2014legacy any good at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003ESomething was also said about the forward debt track. Perhaps those members are in denial about the forward debt track. As I noted in an earlier speech, members opposite are asking what the forward debt track is. Well, I ask members opposite what revelations are still to come. What ticking time bombs have been set up in other portfolios, in other ministries? I cannot understand members opposite. One of them talks about before the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update, and another one of them talks about after the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update. They have talked about the debt to GDP ratio, etc. Yes, it is down to 18 percent, but the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update took it out to about 30 percent, and possibly even higher\u2014and that was before the revelation about the accident compensation scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EThose members should get in the real world today and get out of denial. Why do they not celebrate this bill, which will mean that at long last New Zealand has an ongoing programme of personal tax cuts, of rewarding New Zealanders for their hard work? After 9 long years a bill to bring in personal tax cuts will be voted on; after 9 years\u2014about 3,100 days under the previous regime\u2014it will be in law very shortly. The first tax measure of the previous regime was to hike the top marginal tax rate from 33c to 39c, and 3,000-odd days later they admitted that, yes, they were wrong, and they brought in their tax cut plan when they were about 17 points behind in the poll. New Zealanders saw right through that. Labour members are still in denial in every speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EOne point I note is the disgraceful and disgusting attempt in the last few days by the Hon Trevor Mallard at wedge politics aimed at the M\u0101ori Party and low-income New Zealanders. Some of the language and the rhetoric that have been used are absolutely disgusting. Anyone reading Hansard will see it as simply disgusting and disgraceful racism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe57e2dbffd04d82bf7c42b04e63dd46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe57e2dbffd04d82bf7c42b04e63dd46\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Diddums is all I can say to the poor member Craig Foss, who has just spoken. Let me get this right. New Zealand is in a recession. That is not surprising\u2014so is the United States, so is Germany, so is Japan, so is most of Europe, and so are all kinds of other countries around the world. The member says that the answer to the recession is as follows\u2014and let me get this right. Firstly, we cut long-term savings; secondly, we reduce innovation; thirdly, we increase taxes on people on low incomes. Then, of course, we have the really brilliant part of the growth strategy: we get teachers to tell parents, in plain English, how their kids are doing. This in itself will drive increased productivity throughout the economy. This is the growth strategy. On top of that, the real big driver, the real turbocharger for this 1953 Morris Oxford that the National Party is putting up, is a $10 a week tax cut. People will flood into work for that; they will work so hard that the economy will take off and exports will double! We will be in the top half of the OECD within 3 years, thanks to a $10 a week tax cut! Does anybody believe this rubbish? Do people believe that that is a growth strategy in the 21st century? It would not have been very good in the early 20th century; it is hopeless in the early 21st century.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ESo what does this bill do? It increases taxes for many people. There is nothing urgent about this bill. The only thing that is urgent is that it is being taken under urgency. That does not make it urgent. The bill also provides for annual rates. Actually, it talks about KiwiSaver. I do not know why the Office of the Clerk approved KiwiSaver being in this bill, because there is no reference to it in the title of the bill. It says \u201CTaxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill\u201D. I would like to know how cutting KiwiSaver contributions come within that particular heading. National has got away with stuff I never got away with when Dave McGee was Clerk, I might say in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe know what the increased tax on low incomes is. The increased tax on low incomes is $730 million over the next 5 fiscal years. It is worse than that sounds, because the increase does not take place until 1 April 2010. So it is actually $730 million over about 3 tax years. It is actually about $230 million a year in increased taxes. On whom? On those earning $14,000 to $24,000 a year, on all families with kids that earn under $44,000 a year, and on quite a lot of families with kids that earn over $44,000 a year. They will pay higher taxes than under the current law. That is what this bill does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe second thing it does is reduce innovation. It abolishes the research and development tax credit. We are told that this is because companies are rorting it. Well, not a single company has got a research and development tax credit yet, because the first tax year that it applies to has not yet finished. It is all very well that PricewaterhouseCoopers and all these people have been vetting these lovely schemes, but nobody has actually tested anything. I have heard complaints from accountants that the Inland Revenue Department is being too tough around the rules for the tax credit. Far from the tax credit being too easy to get, the complaint is that it is too hard to get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWhat we do know is that if we do not have one and Australia has one, we will continue to see research and development sucked out of this country. I do not like tax credits in these areas any more than I like bank guarantees. We had to have bank guarantees because everybody else had them. If we did not have them, then we did not get the money linked to New Zealand banks, and we would not see New Zealand retail deposits in New Zealand banks. If everybody else does it, unfortunately we have to do the same thing. The same is unfortunately true with research and development tax credits. If everybody else is doing it and we are not doing it, that is an incentive to site research and development elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWhat is research and development? It is the brightest brains, the highest-value jobs, the companies that produce the most, the companies that export, and the companies that are more innovative and pay higher salaries. National says that it is going to turbocharge this economy by taking those jobs away and exporting them across the Tasman. This is part of its great strategy for bringing people back to New Zealand. Can anybody explain the logic of this? Nobody in National can explain the logic of this. Basically, it is the same as with all the rest: the Labour Government did it, and therefore the National Government will reverse it because it hates stuff that looks good. That is what it has done. It is like Working for Families and it is like KiwiSaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we reduce KiwiSaver in this bill. We turn it from a scheme in which the average worker accumulates savings of 10 percent of his or her wages per annum, of which the worker pays 4 percent, to a scheme in which he or she accumulates savings of about 5 percent per annum, yet many workers\u2014particularly the low paid\u2014will still pay 4 percent, because the employer will shift the cost on to the employee. Mr English claims that lots more people will join, but he failed to answer the question. In terms of the money that National has calculated\u2014and it has calculated money; it has come up with costings, and those costings are based on assumptions\u2014one of the assumptions has to be what the increased uptake of KiwiSaver will be compared with the status quo. The fact is that National has not budgeted anything in that regard. It does not expect an increased uptake, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EYes, the unions wanted to retain the \u201C2 plus 2\u201D entry point. But they were not arguing to stay at \u201C2 plus 2\u201D; they were saying that people could go in at \u201C2 plus 2\u201D, then gear up for \u201C4 plus 4\u201D with annual wage increases, so that they did not feel the initial pain quite as much. That is enormously different from sticking at \u201C2 plus 2\u201D over the lifetime of savings. The sixty-eight members of this House who voted for this are all entitled to an employer\u2019s superannuation subsidy of between 8 and 20 percent on their superannuation scheme. They all voted to lower the subsidy for ordinary workers to next to nothing, and they conned the media into believing that they would get $1,040 a year. They will not\u2014only if they contribute 4 percent continuing. At 2 percent, many will get a tax credit that is a great deal less than $1,040 a year, as a result of these changes. And the threshold of the employer\u2019s superannuation tax payment has been lowered. It goes down from 4 percent to 2 percent. So if the employer continues to pay 4 percent, instead of 4 percent going into the employee account, 3.4 percent goes into the employee account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ETime after time after time, at every step, there is a cut in savings. This is a country with an appalling savings record, with a chronic current account deficit, with an excessive reliance upon foreign capital, and with endless debates about foreign ownership of the New Zealand economy\u2014and this Government decides to cut savings. There is in an international financial crisis, partially driven by the growing gap between the debtor countries\u2014the borrowing countries\u2014and the savings countries, and the National Government has firmly nailed its flag to the mast of more borrowing and more spending. This is not an economic programme that makes any sense: a dumber economy, lower private sector research and development funding, more taxes on low incomes, fewer savings\u2014that is the National Government\u2019s formula. Somehow or other, a little tax cut in the middle and the top will make up for it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe are not actually lowering marginal tax rates for most people; they barely change for the vast majority of people. So the incentives are not there, because economists tell us that the incentives are in terms of the marginal tax rate, not the average tax paid. Once one lowers the average tax paid, people just bank the difference\u2014that is a given. It just becomes part of the family budget from then on. It does not change incentives to work from that point on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe final point is the betrayal by the M\u0101ori Party of its constituents. Those members are voting for a bill that discriminates particularly against their constituents. The low-income people who lose under this bill are disproportionately M\u0101ori. M\u0101ori disproportionately benefited from, and were enthusiastic about, KiwiSaver, because it was particularly geared to helping low to middle income earners get a regular savings habit at work. For the first time for decades we were seeing significant M\u0101ori uptake of work-based superannuation. And the M\u0101ori Party voted for this. That is why the financial veto was withdrawn\u2014the National Government was worried that the M\u0101ori Party members would abstain on, or vote against, the measure. The National Government leant on them and they caved in. Their so-called mana was not enhanced, at all. Their mana is knocking around somewhere in the gutter at the present time. They are feeling about this big. Mr Harawira said that he wants to kill Trevor Mallard because Trevor Mallard dared to point out that he has betrayed his own constituents. Well, utu time has a date: it is probably November 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EIt is already launched; the blogs are turning against National. When one of National\u2019s favourite journalists, the daughter and sister of National Party MPs, is attacking it in her blog today, we know that the worm is turning. The honeymoon is over. I say to the National members that it is time to get out of bed, boys and girls, and start trying to defend where they are, because the honeymoon is over as a result of the legislation that they are pushing through. They should listen to Checkpoint tonight, as group after group is lined up to attack the National Government. This is the real world those members are in. They will go back to their offices, wait for the officials to turn up and scare them with the latest frightening story, panic again, rush in, blame everybody in sight, and try to pretend they are not the Government. Well, they are the Government. We know where we are\u2014we are the Opposition. They are the Government, they have to do it, and what they are doing at the moment is cutting the taxes of the wealthy, increasing the taxes of low-income people, cutting savings, cutting innovation, and betraying the very people who voted for them in this election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0e0835599c74c42ba502240453d5ace\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0e0835599c74c42ba502240453d5ace\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Dr Cullen just cannot stand the idea that the National Party put a plan for the economy to the New Zealand public and they voted for it. It is a different plan to his plan. In fact, people who are voting for the KiwiSaver changes tonight are voting for a KiwiSaver that will be fair. It will be fairer for the simple reason\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248ae95a644f94bbf9db9569334c787c1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Fairer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228da739cfe4a4476ea50c92affdbd03e4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it is\u2014that Labour has never understood that most of the working-age population is not in KiwiSaver. Labour has always believed that the great battling New Zealand public should put their hands in their pockets to fund Labour\u2019s latest little vote-catching scheme. We have changed the rules so that those New Zealanders get an opportunity to join KiwiSaver, because if they are able to join KiwiSaver they will get the benefit of the subsidies provided by the Government. If they cannot join KiwiSaver, which most working-age New Zealanders have not done, they do not get one cent to help them with their saving. If they are working on the average wage, trying to pay off a mortgage when interest rates have been rising, and cannot afford to join KiwiSaver because they cannot give up almost 6 percent of their net pay each week\u2014which a lot of people cannot; and they are the ones who did not vote for Labour, because Labour would not listen to them\u2014those people, who are struggling to keep their heads above water on their mortgages, now have a better chance. Because interest rates are dropping, they may now be able to enter KiwiSaver at 2 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003ESee, Labour did not listen to those people. They listen only to the people who take the cash and say they are grateful. Those are the only people they listen to. Also, through this debate, we found out that Labour always intended KiwiSaver to replace national superannuation. That is why they have been talking about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297aa2f88c6e4b99b56e64bc5fab00e2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: We did not!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a873c84755e4a49a98fc10889a14896\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Cullen has been saying that his intention for KiwiSaver has been to make it like the Australian scheme. The Australian scheme is 9 percent, KiwiSaver is 10 percent, and that is how we should have it! The Australian scheme\u2014as I pointed out to the House\u2014replaces the public pension. It is viciously income-tested and asset-tested. New Zealand does not have income and asset-testing. We had a 20-year debate over it, we have settled on universal superannuation, and now, in addition to that, we are pre-funding it. So every year the New Zealand taxpayer puts $2.5 billion into the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to pre-fund national superannuation. That is staying where it is. That is part of the deal for retirement income. The KiwiSaver arrangements Labour had simply cut too many people out, so we have changed them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe other example of Labour listening only to people who take its cash and are grateful is that of all those people in New Zealand who over the last 4 or 5 years have not benefited from Working for Families. The benefits of Working for Families for households with children have been significant: big increases in their net income\u2014$100 or $150 a week in some cases. But people who earn under $44,000 who have no children, of whom there are 630,000\u2014battling Kiwis who voted Labour loyally for 10 years\u2014got nothing. The strongest economic growth in a generation, and they got nothing. Tonight we have listened to them, and we have given them something, so alongside families they now have the tax cuts and the share of the economic growth they should have had 10 years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022 data-id=\u002282542363fd0b49659d89598330653cbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282542363fd0b49659d89598330653cbb\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak to the title clause of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. Of course, the use of the word \u201Curgent\u201D in the title is rather perplexing. It does not seem to me that there is anything so urgent that this bill has to be rammed through the House tonight or tomorrow. What is so urgent about this bill that it could not be considered by a select committee? What is so urgent that we could not have a proper public debate about the content of this bill? What is so urgent that we could not let civil society, which is the foundation of our community, have a look at the content of this bill? And what are the urgent things that are not in this bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe UK Tory party, the Conservative Party, has become very interested in climate change, because it thinks that is quite an urgent thing. It has started to embrace the idea of using the tax system in order to move our society towards a more sustainable direction. Its leader, David Cameron, has talked a great deal about it. It seems to me that climate change is an urgent issue, and if we want to take urgency to deal with something urgent, then why not deal with climate change? Surely that should be at the top of the agenda, like green taxes are now at the top of the agenda for discussion by the Conservative Party in the UK. But there is nothing in this bill about climate change. There is no transition for the tax system\u2014to shift taxes off income and on to resources and pollution. Instead, the only discussion we are having about climate change is that maybe the taxpayer should pick up more of the costs, because the Government is about to weaken the emissions trading scheme. Every time we weaken the emissions trading scheme, the taxpayer is going to hand over more money to pay for the pollution of other people. It seems to me that if \u201Curgency\u201D is what this bill is meant to be about, then we should be looking at climate change and what we are going to do about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWhat about discussing something else that should be dealt with in this bill? I think the state of our rivers is quite an urgent issue and is something that our tax system should look at. There is nothing in this bill about making sure people pay in that respect. There is the issue of a tax on commercial water-use. This bill is a tax bill, so it could have talked about a tax on commercial water-use. It could have something about that as an urgent issue. Then there might be a financial incentive to use water efficiently. Instead there is no financial incentive, because this tax bill does not really deal with the urgent issues that are facing our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWhat about another urgent issue that should be addressed by this bill\u2014that is, inequality and poverty in our country? We have a major problem with inequality and poverty, and this tax bill will actually make it worse. Instead of the tax bill that we have already passed into law that would give tax breaks to lower and middle income earners, particularly lower-income earners, this bill reduces the tax breaks that we are going to give to those people. The tax cuts we were going to give to lower-income earners are being taken away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EBut it seems to me that what is really urgent in this bill, and why it is so important that it is passed quickly, is that next year people are going to get tax cuts of one sort or another. Now, when they get those tax cuts, most of them will say: \u201COh look, National gave us tax cuts, just like they promised to do.\u201D That is what most people will say. They will not realise they were already going to get bigger tax cuts, particularly for lower-income workers. The reason this bill is so urgent is the politics of it. The Government needs to get it through quickly, before people realise what is being done. That is what is urgent about this bill and that is why it is being pushed through. The reason we are having this debate at 10.30 at night, and going through to midnight, is the politics of it, so that people do not realise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWhat about the savings problem? That is another urgent problem that I would like us to address. The fact is that we have a massive current account deficit, most of which is an investment deficit, because we are highly indebted. We borrow lots of money so we can trade each other\u2019s houses. What about dealing with that problem? Instead, this bill does not deal with that. It makes the problem worse. We have a bad savings culture. We are trying to do something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver was very, very far from perfect but it was a step in the right direction. The Greens support the 2 percent but it should be \u201C2 plus 4\u201D. Why does the Government not do \u201C2 plus 4\u201D? Why does it have to be \u201C2 plus 2\u201D? Why not go to \u201C2 plus 4\u201D, if the Government really cared about savings? We have a savings problem and we all agree about that. What about \u201C4 plus 4\u201D? Why do we not go that way? Let us give people the option of 2 percent but let us support it. It seems to me that an urgent problem that we have as a country is our savings culture. But this bill puts things backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWe have another big problem, an urgent problem\u2014because it seems to me that the bill should be about our urgent problems. We have another urgent problem, which is research and development. We do not do a lot of it in New Zealand. Most of it happens in universities and the public sector. Very little of it happens in the private sector. We had this idea of a research and development tax break in order to get more research and development in the private sector. It was not necessarily going to work and it was not perfect but it was trying to address one of the fundamental problems of our economy, which is that we do not do enough research and development in the private sector. That is an urgent problem, which we should be doing something about. Instead, we are going in the opposite direction with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EIt is urgent that the Government has another look at it, and that the Minister of Finance thinks whether this is really what he would want to be responsible for, or whether he really wants to put down as his first bill through the House something that does not deal with the urgent problems we face like climate change, water quality, inequality, savings, and research and development. In fact, it starts to put some things backwards. In terms of the urgent problem of the economic stimulus package\u2014which is an urgent problem, I give you that\u2014I ask whether we want to have a stimulus package that consists of tax cuts. A large part of those cuts will be spent mostly on imports, although not entirely. Therefore we will be stimulating the Chinese economy with our tax cuts. Some of those tax cuts will be saved, which is good. But if we really wanted a stimulus package to deal with the urgent problem, which is the fact that people are losing their jobs, why not build more State houses? Why not insulate cold, damp houses, which has long-term benefits, and employ New Zealanders? It would stimulate economic activity, because even though the Government does not think it is a problem, we think it is a problem that people live in cold and damp houses. We think we need more houses. If we insulate houses, it has benefits for the health system, the education system, and energy efficiency. That would be a good way to stimulate the economy. That would be a good kind of stimulus package, instead of this package, which is very, very focused on tax cuts. It does not look at the big picture\u2014what we need to do as a society and what we need to do as an economy to prepare for the future. That would be a much better way to have an economic stimulus package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022 data-id=\u0022eac638ebcba34520bb1c9ce8c15173fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eac638ebcba34520bb1c9ce8c15173fa\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to respond to some of the comments made by the Minister of Finance when he said at the outset that what Labour could not get used to was the fact that the National Party had gone into the public arena with its tax policy, had made it clear to the public of New Zealand, and had won the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc87dc64278c48e48e2b37fd2151a304\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Title debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022423086c4ff174d1f8709c13a5a2aa72e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let me just ask the Minister of Finance whether, when he went into the public arena to take part in an election campaign, he was in a position to spell out that those people earning under $20,000, or under $44,000 if they had children, were going to get a tax cut decrease compared with what was already in New Zealand statute? Did he tell the public of New Zealand that? I do not think so. Do we think he told the public of New Zealand who are earning between $44,000 and $50,000 that the $10 a week these people who have been missing out all this time were going to get is not coming after all? Did he say that to the people in the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022832cf4c332c244918c385c1eb13830c3\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Between $24,000 and $44,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022808209d309174aba969ea82a870de2c7\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, those on $24,000 to $44,000 are getting it. But National members campaigned that those on $24,000 to $50,000 would get it, and then they broke the promise. Mr English did not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022010eed79ac564188b4ef6cd26ad8502c\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279196f45f68443dfbbb19ab52b430004\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a broken promise? Well, should we go back into Part 3, with the leave of the Committee, of course, and change the law so that we can have an amendment to make sure that the promises that the National Party made in the election will be kept? At the moment, unless we go back into Part 3, that is the case. The abatement starts to occur well before $50,000 and the measly $10, in Annette King\u2019s words, is much less than that. Did he say to the people of New Zealand that any dollar above 2 percent paid by the employer would have to go and visit the taxman first? Did he say that? No, he did not say that before the election. In fact, he did not say it before yesterday. Yesterday the announcement came in the form of Mr English saying that it should not come as a surprise to anyone. Well, if it was no surprise, then why did he not just say so? He did not point that out, so National has gone into the election with one tax package and come into the House with another. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EBut the other thing I would like to say about Mr English\u2019s remarks is that ridiculous comment about how Dr Cullen had hoped that KiwiSaver would replace New Zealand superannuation. This is what is ridiculous about it. If the previous Government had wanted that to be the case, we would not have made KiwiSaver opt-out; we would have made it compulsory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EYou see, the whole point of making it an opt-out system was to give a bit of choice to the public of New Zealand, but also to protect New Zealand superannuation from right-wing Tories in future generations. This was in addition to New Zealand superannuation, which, the Minister was generous enough to point out, has now become a universal entitlement and is now being pre-funded thanks to the Cullen fund\u2014there is $14 million in that fund, and I tell Mr English not to go near it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003ESo let us just see whether the logic of Mr English\u2019s comments about Dr Cullen\u2019s intentions is true. It is palpably false. A few things about the New Zealand economy are in good shape, and a few things about the New Zealand economy are not in good shape. Generally speaking, we can say that our net or gross debt to GDP levels are in good shape, and have been in good shape for a few years. We can say that we have a high\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1a3b83fbe774556b95492b7372ebb4e\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Is 45 percent prudent? That is what Helen Clark said in the 1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239831e2d48ce4afc8b123afc86e806be\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know the member\u2019s name, and I do not know where he comes from, but he would be very hard-pressed to back that assertion up with any record in Hansard. He should go and look; he will not find it. The member is just making it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EBut let us take a look at some of the good things about the New Zealand economy. We would probably agree that we have a relatively good credit rating internationally\u2014in fact, we have a very good credit rating internationally. I think we could agree that the business regulatory environment is in good shape. The World Bank keeps telling us that, and other surveys keep telling us that we are near the top for setting up or pulling down a business and near the top for regulatory regimes for businesses. We have low or very low levels of corruption, and we are all pleased and proud about that. We have low unemployment, though we know that that will go up in due course. But we know that some things about our economy are not good. We are a low-wage economy, even though in 9 years the Labour Government managed to lift the minimum wage from $7 an hour for an adult to $12 an hour for an adult. In the 9 years prior to that it had been lifted by somewhat less than $1 an hour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39e91c01e144ff8b74db35406a44edf\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: In 9 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d39e0d48f0f4050a078a4abdc8c3658\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: In 9 years\u2014less than a dollar an hour; $5 an hour over the 9 years of our Government. But we are still a low-wage economy. We are an economy that does not save, and we are an economy that does not do research and development. And we are passing legislation today that increases taxation on the low paid, that cuts research and development, and that causes dissaving. What is sensible about that? What is reasonable about that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EWhat is more, this change is structural. This is not a short-term stimulus. The Greens suggested that we might retrofit a few more houses or build a few more State houses\u2014that would be a short-term stimulus. Or we could do what they did in Australia and say married superannuitants would get $2,100, and a single superannuitant would get $1,100\u2014or whatever the figures are. It is a short-term stimulus. People on the equivalent of Working for Families in Australia would get $1,000 a child, or whatever it was\u2014I am sorry, I do not recall the details. That is what a short-term stimulus is like. This is not a short-term stimulus; it is medium-term wealth redistribution. It is a structural fiscal change that will cause deficits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022713168d5182344d08d51df233d6005e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Social engineering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c07112045774876bac2169e3352fcaf\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is social engineering at its worst. I cannot believe that National would use the offices of this House to ensure that its own social engineering predilections would come to pass. But that is what it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f9f38c2464b49d781390acd9f99c146\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: It is putting the rich back on the dummy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba42845e7e7b4374b7edc90d4498d2bc\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is putting the rich back on the dummy. That is exactly what it is\u2014a wealth redistribution in the medium term. The whole idea of fiscal restraint went out the door when the Speech from the Throne was read on Tuesday this week, and we heard that there would be fiscal deficits foreseeably. That is not acceptable. That is not prudent. That is something resembling shadows of Muldoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273bca5b684a94ad0ba896957a7f7f5c7\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! No, it is a legacy of Labour, actually!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256893cac9e97452ea98f5c0bd4c9890e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a joke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EThis country has come into a fiscally positive position in recent years, under successive Governments. It has certainly stayed there for 9 years of the Labour Government, and here, within days, we are moving into fiscal deficit. A fiscal deficit for a short period would be a good thing. You see, that is what a short-term stimulus would deliver; it would help to pull us through. But, no, the Government has not done that; it has eschewed the idea of a short-term stimulus and instead gone for a medium-term structural change, which is the redistribution of wealth. That is Tory behaviour at its worst. It is bad for our economy, it is bad for the rich-poor gap, it is bad for innovation, it is bad for saving, it is bad for exports, it is bad for high wages, and it is bad for our competition with Australia. I cannot think of a thing that is good about it, and the shame of it is that we had this opportunity and we blew it. That is the shame of it. We had the opportunity to do something that was going to be clever, and nothing clever came before this House. That is a shocking, shocking shame, and I am very, very sad that we will end the Committee stage of this legislation in due course, which shifts us in the wrong direction at the wrong time for all of the wrong reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223810d1baa3e44256a7adaf041db84896\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5660fe90f004178812cc379b0cf54bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223810d1baa3e44256a7adaf041db84896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5660fe90f004178812cc379b0cf54bd\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER (Minister of Civil Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7770ee1cb5d43ed8c57ef1a7066f075\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7770ee1cb5d43ed8c57ef1a7066f075\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on clauses 1 and 2. When we deal with the title, we can see that this bill would probably best be called the \u201CTaxation (Tax Increases for the Poor, Less Security in Retirement for the Low Paid, and a Dumber Economy) Bill\u201D. That is exactly what this legislation does. That is what the National Government thinks is so urgent that it needs to be passed at quarter to 11 at night in urgency\u2014tax increases for some of our most vulnerable families, less security in retirement, because it is gutting KiwiSaver, and a dumber economy, because it is getting rid of the research and development tax credits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWith the kind of global crisis we are facing now, there are probably a few things that people might expect their Government to do. First, they would probably expect it to protect the most vulnerable\u2014those who are most likely to lose their jobs, those who are most likely not to get pay increases, and those who are most likely to be unable to afford to pay their mortgages, pay their food bills, or be able to buy the kinds of things they need to send their kids to school. The second thing one might expect one\u2019s Government to do is to promote innovation, promote research and development, and promote the kinds of policies that will bring in higher-paid jobs, increase exports, and put more money into the real economy. When the country has such high personal debt levels, the third thing one might expect the Government to do is to take savings seriously, and try to increase personal savings and increase the depth of capital in the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe astonishing thing about this legislation is not that National has ignored one of those things but that it is that it has ignored all of them. And not just that\u2014it has done the exact opposite of everything one would expect a responsible Government to do in a global financial crisis. Indeed, it has done the opposite of what just about every other country we compare ourselves to is considering doing in this global financial crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe most offensive thing about this bill is that the members who have spoken on it tonight have tried to make us believe that they are doing it because they care about poor people. They have tried to make us believe that they care about the low paid and about workers. Maybe this bill should be called the \u201CTaxation (Merry Christmas, Low-paid Workers, and You Are Welcome, from the National Party) Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWe heard from Mr Chris Tremain, who did a little dance while he said it, that workers should be thankful for this legislation. We are sorry, but we did not realise we were meant to be grateful for the fact that the lowest-paid workers will have their taxes increased, and for the fact that the lowest-paid workers will have their retirement savings slashed. When those workers get to retirement age there will be no point in doing any more extra work, because they will lose their independent earner tax credit when they work. They cannot supplement the retirement income they lost through this legislation by working, because they will be disadvantaged. Mr Chris Tremain told us that we are meant to thank the National Government for this legislation, because it is so good for our workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThen David Bennett came in. Amongst all the clich\u00E9s, he tried to tell us how much he cared about young people. Well, I would welcome anyone to listen on the Internet to Mr David Bennett\u2019s speech on the youth minimum wage abolition bill. He called that communism. He said that paying young people the same money for doing the same job as someone who is one day older than them was communism, yet we had to listen to speech after speech from Mr David Bennett, with all the clich\u00E9s, telling us about how much he cared about those young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EYoung people are joining KiwiSaver, I say to Mr Bennett. Mr Bennett can stand up in this Chamber and tell us until the cows come home that this bill will make more people join KiwiSaver, yet he will not answer the simple question as to why those increases are not budgeted for. If the Government is expecting an increase in KiwiSaver participation, why is that increase not budgeted for? He now pretends he is reading his papers, because he has no answer to that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThose members know that this legislation single-handedly, with a stroke of a pen, destroys KiwiSaver. They know that this legislation single-handedly, with a stroke of a pen, will seriously damage the real economy. It will drive jobs offshore at a time when we need them the most. Other countries around the world will be saying: \u201CThank you, New Zealand National Government, for getting rid of your research and development tax credit, because we have benefited from it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWorst of all, this legislation will increase the tax on some of our most vulnerable families. I urge the M\u0101ori Party to think very, very seriously about supporting this bill. It is not mana-enhancing to take money out of the pockets of the poorest families in this country and give it to the people who need it the least.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022de82e3ca077a41dd9b54de3dfbe26e34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de82e3ca077a41dd9b54de3dfbe26e34\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E We have just witnessed one of the quite interesting assumptions dished out by the Minister of Finance. I think Dr Cullen\u2019s chronological order on the framework that it is supposed to stimulate the economy is spot on\u2014take away the 2 percent, and make believe that the $1,040 is still there, but it is not against $26,000; it is against $52,000. Then we hear this preaching and leeching from people like Mr Bennett that this measure is about helping poor people. Roger Douglas stood up in this Chamber and said \u201CWell, as a start you forget about the beneficiaries.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222109004effc04a0e8e32c82c7a910a87\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: And the old people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6acfbdafa8848ddabb7f257faaa1459\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: And the old people. That is what he was alluding to, and that was parroted by the Minister of Finance in a very simple way. He has put out the assumption that at the end of the day our superannuation fund is too generous. So all this hinting is going on. It was not too different from the rough talk and the make believe in relation to accident compensation. It was a whole lot of hogwash. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EWe have listened to Mr Bennett flick out the platitudes in relation to caring and sharing, and wanting to help young people and M\u0101ori along the freeway to the future. Well, the freeway to the future in this country has a hell of a lot of potholes in it\u2014potholes brought about by mean-spirited people. We are heading towards Christmas, a time when the mistletoe is glistening and the fellow with the red cap comes ripping through town. [Interruption] What has Gerry Brownlee given to people? Big bags of nothing! It is a disgrace. M\u0101ori people are affected. T\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D taku k\u014Drero ki a koe, e Hone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E[I have told you that before, Hone.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223351ff2b4e5a4b478f297c97650998b2\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That won\u2019t go down well at home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce264a1c72de4a05a5fc28ed342d2b5e\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: It might not go down well with you, but our people will understand that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022827a179682ab4d8493b91055e3ad8f39\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022884756c8af9d40edb4c411155a7e4928\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Mr Chairperson. I should have said \u201CMr Brownlee\u201D. It will go down well with our people because 73 percent of M\u0101ori who work miss out in this case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EWhat a sad day for M\u0101oridom! That the M\u0101ori Party was not told, or that it was not explained clearly enough to them, is not too dissimilar to what was not told to the public. A whole lot of porkies were told to the public, and one does not have to be a rocket scientist to know that. Craig Foss huffs and puffs over there because he is a price-taker. He knows how to play the futures market; he knows how to let it slip. There are a whole lot of people with passionate theories about how to build up the price of the profit margin. That is why Merrill Lynch is down in the mud. That is why a lot of those big corporations, driven by price-takers and the leader of this country, have hurt people\u2019s investments. That is why old people in this country are crying and worrying\u2014it is because their superannuation has been taken away from them by bogus investors. Craig Foss knows about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EAt the end of the day it seems quite peculiar that the Minister of Finance is saying that this was a prelude to changing the KiwiSaver programme to take over superannuation. He is lucky that the Cullen fund is there. Treasury has told the Minister that a strong platform has been left for the National Government to work off. National is lucky, and it should be thankful that we have helped it along. But what does it do? On its first day in here it has come in and dealt to the poor people and to the M\u0101oris. Those National people could not even run the House properly on the first day, and that was a sad example. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EOne does not have to be a rocket scientist to understand that when one stimulates business, there are fundamentals in it\u2014one understands where the market is, one makes sure that the product is saleable, and one makes sure that there is good research and development. This bill has been about stripping the general research and development, which is something that the majority of businesses in this country asked for. What did the Government do? It closed research and development and shoved it down a ditch. Shame on it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b06051cb2c499e82db69cda687f409\u0022 data-id=\u0022747b395ceba64adc9f4223fd06d51f53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b06051cb2c499e82db69cda687f409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022747b395ceba64adc9f4223fd06d51f53\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002202c058020c624f65a500d48aa8686dc8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; M\u0101ori Party 5; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f75535b624034465b9d1c18cd8c57a04\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; M\u0101ori Party 5; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222e870283ad6d468099b92a4317f17cea\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; M\u0101ori Party 5; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001198\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001199\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8e4935ed9164db3b01c786827d20a96\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u0022445f64f5aa5f4a2aa5b2e5e7cfbe5107\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022445f64f5aa5f4a2aa5b2e5e7cfbe5107\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill be now read a third time. It is not surprising that there was some debate in the House over this matter. The political parties have had competing tax packages out in the public arena for some time. The previous Government, in the 2008 Budget, finally gave in on the argument for tax cuts. It announced tax cuts of its own, which is described as being at the edge of reasonable, or at the edge of prudence, or whatever it was. In the run-up to the election the National Party announced its tax package. There have probably been few issues as thoroughly debated as tax rates over the last 4 or 5 years, particularly at the time of the 2005 Budget, because the previous Government had promised some tax cuts and it was a matter of some debate that after the election it decided not to implement the tax cuts it had promised. It has been a fairly significant debate since then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThis bill has been part of the plan on which the National Party was elected. It is a plan to get this country through a recession as best we can\u2014a recession that began well before international events started to unfold as dramatically as they have in recent months; it began early this year\u2014and to lift our long-term growth rates for the benefit of all New Zealanders. We were elected on the basis of that plan just a month or so ago, but also, I think, on the basis that many New Zealanders felt it was time for a Government that had a bit more respect for their capacity to make their own decisions about their own lives, whether they be about the size of the heads they were allowed to have in the shower, and how long they were allowed to stand in the shower, right through to making more of their own financial decisions. Of course, any Government makes a great number of financial decisions for people, but they were in a position where the previous Government was telling them when to save, when to spend, and when to pay off debt. Our approach is different from that, which is one of the reasons that our tax cuts are larger than the previous Government\u2019s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThis tax cut is part of a fiscal stimulus that began with the 2008 Budget, which, according to Treasury calculations\u2014and it is somewhat of a dark art as to how it does them\u2014means that over the next 2 years, $7 billion of fiscal stimulus will come into the New Zealand economy. I have seen some commentators and some of our political opponents describe that as being insignificant or too small. In fact, it is not. By international standards it is one of the largest fiscal stimuli that are occurring in the developed world. So it will make a difference to this economy. Of course, we cannot avoid being in a recession. As I said, New Zealand was in a recession before international events came on. That was a product, to a large extent, of 9 years of complacent and misdirected economic management by the previous Government. But this fiscal stimulus will help people to keep jobs who would have otherwise lost them, and it will protect people from the sharpest edge of recession. We will see in other countries just how sharp that edge can be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe tax package fits into that context, but it also fits into a longer-term context where we have argued for many years\u2014it is part of the philosophy of our party\u2014that a lower tax take and lower tax rates would in the long run provide better incentives for people to get ahead, and that the private sector part of the economy is more likely to get things right than the Government would when making decisions about too much of the activity in the economy. Of course, the balance between those two swings around. In the last couple of months the previous Government, with our support, issued guarantees for bank deposits and wholesale borrowing by banks, which was quite a big shift in the role of the Government. Of course our view has to adapt according to the circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThat is the tax part of the legislation. Then we come to the KiwiSaver part of the legislation where, I think, the fundamental point that the debate missed is that many working-age New Zealanders\u2014even with the number at apparently 800,000, or whatever it is\u2014are simply not in KiwiSaver, and they face tough times. During the election campaign we made our plan for KiwiSaver clear: it is focused on making it fair\u2014that is, allowing more New Zealanders access to the benefits of KiwiSaver, because if they cannot afford to save almost 6 percent of their net income, then they cannot afford to be in KiwiSaver. I would suggest, as we go into this recession, that we should be realistic about how many Kiwis feel about their job security and their ability to give up 5 percent of their net income, particularly when many of them are carrying too much debt. Putting money into KiwiSaver does not pay off one\u2019s debt. In fact, putting it in there means one is likely to lose it in the current circumstances, but one still has to pay interest on the mortgage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003ESo our approach has been to give people tax cuts. They then have the opportunity to decide how they will use that money. Many of them will pay off debt; that is actually a form of saving. That is why savings rates are bound to increase. The Labour Party missed the reality that the only way to save is actually to consume less, and many New Zealanders are doing that right now. One of the reasons they are consuming less is to pay off their debt, and that is a decision that they make according to their own sense of what the risks are. That is why we have lowered the threshold for KiwiSaver contributions to 2 percent. People are free to contribute whatever they like above that and to make use of whatever arrangements they have made, or will continue to make, with their employers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe bill also includes one significant change from our pre-election policy on KiwiSaver, which is to revert to what was the pre-existing policy on KiwiSaver\u2014that is, the member tax credit will be paid out at the rate of dollar for dollar. There was some suggestion during the debate that this was not what it appeared to be. Well, it is what it appears to be. If people on $30,000 a year are contributing 4 percent of that to KiwiSaver, then they will get $1,040 from the Government. Of course, if they go in at the default rate of 2 percent, they will get a smaller member tax credit. Everyone knows that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EFinally on KiwiSaver, I say we should see it in the context of retirement income for all New Zealanders. We have, as was discussed during the Committee stage, a universal pension in New Zealand\u2014New Zealand superannuation\u2014after many years of debate. We have a pre-funding arrangement that is beaten, I think, by only the Norwegians, who are using oil revenues\u2014very large-scale pre-funding by any international standard\u2014and in that context the Opposition\u2019s argument that KiwiSaver has to be as big as the Australian scheme can only mean that Opposition members envisage KiwiSaver one day replacing New Zealand superannuation. That is not our vision for KiwiSaver; it is a top-up for people who save during their working life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EWe are pleased to support this bill in its third reading. It is a different tax package from Labour\u2019s, and that means there will be different rates and thresholds. But I will make this one simple point: no one is worse off as a result of this legislation. [Interruption] If, as an Opposition member claimed, M\u0101ori are going into Christmas on bad incomes, I say that they are the incomes Labour left them with after 9 years of the strongest economic growth the country has had. They are not affected at all by this legislation, so I say the rubbish from the Opposition about low-income people being attacked is nonsense. If those people are hard up, it is because they have loyally voted for Labour for 10 years and not been rewarded, either by Labour winning the election or by the benefits of economic growth. The crocodile tears for low-income New Zealanders were, I think, ridiculous; 630,000 people will finally get a tax break after 10 years of Labour ignoring them. We are proud that that is part of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022804d5dd3c7c94831a8e82bb1e77595d6\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222d08d91058344419a8118e9dd3a63f67\u0022\u003EBills\u2014Availability in Urgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u002231324fc55af04e58b132f4df556dfbd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231324fc55af04e58b132f4df556dfbd0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have raised this point a number of times today. It is still the case that none of the other bills that the House will consider are on the Table of the House. The previous Government never adopted the practice of going into urgency and taking as long as this to table bills. Either this Government is so incompetent that it has not got them drafted yet and does not really know what it has taken urgency on, or it is deliberately withholding the bills from the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1acb7d433b44161aeee920524d9e2ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1acb7d433b44161aeee920524d9e2ec\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E A couple of things have become evident to me in the last couple of days. One is that Dr Cullen is hell-bent on everybody following the letter of the Standing Orders to the nth degree. That is exactly what is happening here. There is no requirement on the Government at this point to table any bills at all\u2014no requirement whatsoever. After the extraordinary performance of the huge amount of outrage from the members of the previous Government at the reinstatement of most of their own business, it seems to me that those members have very little interest in knowing about anything that this Government will do. But they will have those bills on the Table in time for them to be debated, at a time to be chosen by the Government. If I were to seek leave to introduce those bills now, Dr Cullen would say: \u201CWell done, you have just put them on the Table; they can stay there for 3 days.\u201D, or he would play some other clever trick that the Standing Orders might, by the letter of the law, allow. We will play it very safe so he can be happy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u00227bbcea16cc8848ac920692bcaa3802a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bbcea16cc8848ac920692bcaa3802a8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That is an incredibly arrogant response. People in that member\u2019s position in the past have taken the view, very properly, of reminding Governments of their responsibility in these matters. It is clear now that the Government has got the bills available\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff291ccf105544a582f7adc03b4c9a98\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273dfd8d19a1246289c6f67c62c4bffeb\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes\u2014and the Government is choosing not to table bills it has available, out of spite and out of arrogance. This is the second full day of this Parliament and this Government is acting like one already heading for the graveyard, because it does not want to follow any kind of normal procedure. That is not the practice that has been followed in this House for many years now. I went with the practice, as Leader of the House, of being very, very full about what business the House would consider. The Opposition always knew well in advance what business would be considered. In urgency, if bills were coming forward to go through all their stages, they were tabled at the earliest opportunity. That is just basic common courtesy about making this House work. If the Government chooses to have no cooperation at all, then it will pay for that in a very significant fashion over the period of time. It will come to regret it. That member should know that this House cannot work if there is no cooperation between the parties in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u002268b1b833fdb146ffbf046f6ff9ff8dc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268b1b833fdb146ffbf046f6ff9ff8dc0\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Dr Cullen. Earlier this morning I made the point, on advice, that when the House is sitting under urgency at the time that a bill is to be introduced, copies of the bill must be available at the Table. There is no requirement to have a bill available prior to that. Standing Order 263 sets out the general rule but it does not deal specifically with bills introduced under urgency. It simply establishes the principle that copies of a bill must be available upon its introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u002260a919cfd8c04757a8dd5dbc04c6c037\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260a919cfd8c04757a8dd5dbc04c6c037\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your advice on an apparent conflict between two Standing Orders that bear upon this matter. Standing Order 116 prohibits members from making personal reflections. For example, when I reflect upon the fact that the Leader of the House, Mr Brownlee, earlier today gave his undertaking to do his very best to put these bills on the Table in advance of debate on them, I am prevented from making any comment on his honour, or lack of it, in now not doing so. By his own free admission, the bills are available. However, Standing Order 106 prohibits misrepresentation. It would appear to me that Mr Brownlee may have placed himself in the position of misrepresenting his own position, because he earlier said that he would do his best to bring the bills forward for scrutiny. This is against the background that no select committee process is available to the country in respect of these fundamentally important bills. He has made a statement. He has contradicted that statement. I am prevented by the Standing Orders from reflecting upon that. Mr Deputy Speaker, I ask your guidance: what happens when a member, the Leader of the House, apparently contradicts himself on a matter of this import?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294f8481996c646e289f428db003759ea\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The first point, Mr Cunliffe, is to ask whether you are taking exception under Standing Order 116, concerning personal reflections. You mentioned that. Do you take offence at the comments made by the Hon Gerry Brownlee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u00226b25e948cbaa40b3b795fc40e07f73a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b25e948cbaa40b3b795fc40e07f73a6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I may not have made myself clear, Mr Deputy Speaker. It was not that I take offence; it was that if I were to characterise the Leader of the House\u2019s late change of position on this matter, he would likely take offence, because I would have to refer to him as being dishonourable in this House, and that would be a very serious charge. I take it that I am prevented from doing that by Standing Order 116. On the other hand, the House remains in the situation that the member has apparently contradicted himself on a matter of significant constitutional practice. On a strict reading of the Standing Orders, it may be an option legally available to him not to present bills before the debate on each bill starts. That is not in dispute. What is in dispute is that he gave an indication to the House earlier in the day that he would do his best to get the bills here in advance, in response to an earlier point of order made in good faith by the previous Leader of the House, who made exactly that a standard practice. There is both a substantive and a procedural lack of apparent honour in this matter, and I do not know how the House will handle it unless the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022391926fd2c4640d2ad94402d6f6b365f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022391926fd2c4640d2ad94402d6f6b365f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Cunliffe, you have made the point very clear. I remind members that when points of order are taken they are to be heard in silence. Please observe that. On advice, these are matters of debate. Standing Order 106 does not prevent misrepresentation; it provides a manner for dealing with it. I am sure the member can find a way of expressing his views without making a personal reflection. It is a matter for debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u00221056505d881c442b86b5eda24441371a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221056505d881c442b86b5eda24441371a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You might recall that on a previous occasion, during the previous Government, Mr Brownlee took some time of the House in seeking to table one by one the Standing Orders of Parliament. I would like an indication from you, Mr Deputy Speaker, whether that would be a legitimate thing for me to begin to do as this particular point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022597c449ef06147768cddf34c4981d304\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022597c449ef06147768cddf34c4981d304\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Deputy Speaker, you will find there is a Speaker\u2019s ruling on that particular matter. The Speaker ruled that deliberate disruption of the House or its progress in that way would be considered unruly behaviour likely to lead to the member concerned being ejected or named.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u00229240f45f2bde497d8a546afe67bce8d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229240f45f2bde497d8a546afe67bce8d0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I make the point that that matter was sparked off by nothing at all on the part of Mr Brownlee; what we have now is Mr Brownlee deliberately failing to implement an undertaking that he gave at 2 o\u2019clock. He said at 2 o\u2019clock that I had made a fair point, and that he would address the matter and see that it was seen to. He is now point-blank refusing to honour an undertaking given in this House, across the House. He should be experienced enough by now to know that behaviour of that sort does have consequences in Parliament. I suggest to him that he might care to go home, have a cup of cocoa, think about life, come back in the morning, and, while we are still in the third reading of this bill, think about tabling some of the bills that are coming up tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe4f845507584015b22bf3f3015353fe\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The point has been well made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2ff6799010e4f6080153701a3747af8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2ff6799010e4f6080153701a3747af8\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Deputy Speaker, the issue for the Green Party is that, clearly, the Leader of the House has some animus towards the previous Leader of the House and the Labour Party. However, that has nothing to do with us, I say to the Leader of the House. This Parliament is not just a Labour and National Parliament; it is an MMP Parliament. All of us need to be able to look at the legislation, which the Leader of the House has now told us is in his possession. It is very difficult to see how we can undertake our democratic responsibilities if the bills are not placed on the Table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u00228435ee8c51d7476cacd9f77818de8649\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228435ee8c51d7476cacd9f77818de8649\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I made it very clear before that there is no requirement for a bill to be tabled before the time that it is to be debated. That is a point I made earlier this morning. I intend to move on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022078209fb282844bc84a1dac6dd0a9d08\u0022\u003ETaxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8db627c4bcf412298c20974095106e3\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001231\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u00224085f4f3c6274d4995c2399f3982562c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224085f4f3c6274d4995c2399f3982562c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I think it is fair to say that many members of this House come to the third reading of this Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill late this evening with a strong sense of sadness\u2014a sense of sadness about the process that has been employed, a sense of sadness about a wasted opportunity to make a significant positive difference for our economy, and a grave sense of sadness about the social impact of these measures. Let me take each in turn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI said in my first reading speech that the public could, if nothing else, take from this bill that the honeymoon was over, that the sheep\u2019s clothing had fallen from the National wolf, and that the true nature of its intentions was becoming all too clear. But I have to say that during the course of the debate the exact nature of those measures has become even clearer, and the\u2014perhaps duplicity is not too strong a word, of the Government in this matter has been stark. It is highlighted by the process. Here we have a Leader of the House who has contradicted an earlier undertaking to the House and refuses to place bills on the Table, as has always hitherto, to my knowledge, been the practice. That is an innovation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227697a1075bec4ebf8f8314362ef9cb7a\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think you need to be careful about allowing repetition of a point being made somewhat unfairly. The Standing Orders are very clear in this matter, and I have been pulled up considerably over the last couple of days for apparently not understanding the Standing Orders. Now I have actually cottoned on to how they work, and I am simply following the Standing Orders to the letter. It would be an absurdity, in the middle of an urgency motion, to ask a party that has voted against that motion to grant leave for the bills to be tabled in that motion. So I think we are caught in a bit of a cleft stick created by those who are utter sticklers for the way in which the Standing Orders are applied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ce717ce829a4bd3866c4f142a2de691\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: There are two points here. The first is that leave is not required for the Minister to table bills under urgency. Once urgency has been taken, the bills can be put on the Table of the House immediately at that point. The member is getting confused, I think; if a bill had been tabled in a previous sitting day, then urgency could not be taken on that bill until the bill came above the line after some 3 days. The Minister can table any bills now that he wants that are being dealt with under urgency. That does not affect when they are taken during the urgency debate. The member need not worry about that fact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EFurther than that, the fact that the member can be discourteous and can behave badly within the Standing Orders does not mean to say that it is not discourteous and behaving badly, and that it cannot be the subject of reference by members on this side of the House. One has to live by one\u2019s decisions in this place. The Minister has made certain decisions. He will have to live by the consequences of those decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1abc698390044888d7e04f4918523f3\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Standing Order 263 is clear, but that does not prevent members raising the timing of the availability of bills in the debate. The point that was made earlier was that there is no requirement in the Standing Orders for the bills to be tabled prior to the urgency debate taking place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022458dab8c73fd47b0a985b263e808c903\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: For the record, the point being made before the member\u2019s point of order was not that it was against the Standing Orders, but that it was against an earlier undertaking given by the member. That seemed relevant because it was yet another example of the same practice that was preventing this bill going to a select committee in the first place. Mr English said that it was in their manifesto so it did not need a select committee process. By implication, everything that was in National\u2019s manifesto could do without a select committee process. Would not that be terrific\u2014and where would our democracy be? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThis is a very, very important bill; this is a very, very serious matter. New Zealand is at a serious crossroads, facing an international crisis, the magnitude of which we have not seen in several generations. But, apparently, no select committee process is appropriate for a principal tool for dealing with this recession. It is a wasted opportunity because this bill does nothing to assist New Zealand to face the challenges. It reduces savings, paradoxically, at a time of the most serious international liquidity crisis, when our domestic savings now count for more than they ever have, and we are undermining them to the tune of $3.5 billion, plus there are the spin-offs from behaviour that that undermines. It does nothing to encourage innovation. It has the contrary effect of taking away a much-needed incentive and a much-needed international equilibrator for companies that are high-tech and that employ more, innovate more, and export more than average. Those are the companies that ought to lead us through recession to the productivity growth we all share as a goal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EAnd it is bad economics, because, as many speakers\u2014and, I think most notably, Russel Norman\u2014have contributed, it seems to mistake a short-term stimulus package, where it is a wasted opportunity, for what one of my colleagues has called medium-term wealth redistribution. There is nothing of what could be done to provide more houses for the needy, to retrofit more houses, to keep our children healthy, to boost skills, to import technology, or to improve our woeful lack of private research and development. It does none of that. It is even bad fiscal policy, because it comes against the context of formal advice from Treasury that says that the existing level of fiscal stimulus is appropriate, that we have already invested nearly $10 billion, and that this $5 billion is misdirected and unwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EMr English talked about KiwiSaver as if somehow this bill were a measure designed to advance it. It caps the automatic enrolment at 2 percent, it caps the employer contribution at 2 percent, it cuts the enrolment subsidy\u2014which is a regressive move\u2014against low-income contributors, and it cuts the tax credit on superannuation contributions, thereby disadvantaging our more senior savers. It is a 2 percent plus 2 percent scheme, with the grave risk that it ends up with the employee bearing more and more of the 4 percent, and the employer bearing less and less, and the Government has misrepresented the position of the union movement, to boot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESo that brings us to the social re-engineering aspect of this bill. It is kind of ironic, is it not, for a party that says it has been listening and that we have not. Those members have been listening so much that they thought our poorest New Zealanders wanted a $750 million kick in the guts just before Christmas, and we have seen the most bizarre display from the Minister of Finance, attempting to veto a well-intentioned amendment from the Opposition that would have ensured that those people did not suffer at this time. He put on the Table the veto quantifying the penalty to them, and then took it off again after it was already made public\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fea2325ca1e14a1a86913b69c61e62dc\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: A little embarrassed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227156a4f329fb401f9ac38dceefd9da81\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a little embarrassed. What we do know from our analysis is that anybody with a couple of kids who is earning less than $40,000 is worse off, and that income earners in the $14,000 to $20,000 range are particularly worse off because of the higher rate they find themselves in, relative to what is already in the law. Again, to give credit to Dr Russel Norman, he asked the question as to why this bill is urgent, because this policy is medium-term stuff. He offered the insightful comment that it is urgent because the Government does not want to be discussing this around next March or April, when the next lot of Labour-led tax cuts come into effect. National members would rather that people thought they were National\u2019s tax cuts, even though they are rather less than many of them would have got if this bill were not to be passed tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWe, the media, the bloggers, and the commentators have seen through the charade. We have seen through the electoral rhetoric\u2014the sad part is that David Bennett still believes it\u2014and we understand this for what it is. It was remarkably frankly acknowledged by Mr Craig Foss, who reminded us that \u201CYou did 39 percent tax in your first year.\u201D That is what this is about\u2014taking it back again. It is about utu. Mr English said \u201CKiwiSaver was Labour\u2019s latest vote catcher.\u201D That is what this is about\u2014that we thought of it, and not National, and therefore it deserves to be undermined. That would seem to fly in the face of our higher duties to the public, which are to do what is good for New Zealand, not what is good for our own egos, and not only things we thought of first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI guess that brings us to the rather sad position of the M\u0101ori Party. There is much in that party\u2019s ideals that I admire, and I look forward to Labour working together with M\u0101ori of all parties to redefine constitutional relationships in the future, but not by supporting a National Government that is harming the people the M\u0101ori Party was sent here to represent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThis is a sad day for New Zealand. It is a sad, sad day for this Parliament. It is not a mana-enhancing day for any of us, actually, that to get us here on its first working week, the Government has breached longstanding constitutional practice. It has done so based on the argument that anything that was in National\u2019s manifesto before the election does not deserve select committee consideration, and in fact it does not even deserve, we hear now, a bill to be placed on the Table after an urgency motion but before the bill has started. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EAnd National members had the gall to say that we were not listening! My God, New Zealand is lucky that the Government has a few cards in its hand to deal in the interests of good government and New Zealand\u2019s future. Those cards are a debt to GDP ratio that is half what we inherited from a National Government last time; the fact we have got research and development up a fair bit, mainly through Government sponsorship; the fact that income levels of our poor are a quarter higher than they were a decade ago in real terms, and therefore there is some cushion. I do not see people choosing between going to the doctor and putting food on the table or paying rent, in quite the way I used to. As someone rightly said, there are still poor people in New Zealand. Yes, there are, so I say shame on the Government for making many of them $750 million poorer through the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. Do not kid yourselves, and do not kid New Zealanders, I say to Mr Bennett, that you are doing it for their sake. Just be honest about it and say that you are doing it for the sake of others who voted for you\u2014at least that is honest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022796766e094be4639af4d4da055d8b3f5\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: Not \u201Cyou\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257521b1f2d1b41a5bd853778f3966616\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Not you, Mr Deputy Speaker. We hold you in high regard and we appreciate your chairing of this debate. We are only sorry that we do not have better news to bring to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022648fb3782a2c4e98b8a01b4d6ea18b94\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. Can I make it very clear that members cannot use the words \u201Cyou\u201D or \u201Cyour\u201D in any debates. That brings the Chair or the Speaker into the debate and that is not allowed. Please abide by that ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022 data-id=\u0022236ff27422034d188e6ca66e7e25e12e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022236ff27422034d188e6ca66e7e25e12e\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E What a great, great day this is for New Zealand. It is perhaps a sad, sad day for members opposite, but it is a great, great day because we have seen democracy in action. Over 1 million New Zealanders gave their party vote to National, and at the election National laid out its personal tax cuts plan to New Zealand. It also laid out its KiwiSaver plan and its research and development plan to New Zealand. What a great day this is. We are seeing democracy in action and those measures will be delivered tonight, or perhaps tomorrow morning once the third reading of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill has been voted on. Many members are now waking up after the previous speech. But goodness gracious, who knows how many listeners have turned off the radio because that speech was an absolute shocker? No doubt Mr Jones is doing the numbers again tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI was not going to mention debt ratios again, because I think I have mentioned them a few times, but unfortunately the previous speaker, the Hon David Cunliffe, brought them up again. I have to ask whether Labour members read or saw the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update. Did they look at the statistics? Labour members are stuck in the time warp of the previous administration\u2019s May 2008 Budget, which had debt to GDP ratios of about 17 to 18 percent\u2014that is quite right. But then everything started to unravel, and the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update showed us a decade of deficits that were nudging 30 percent, and, with the recent announcements that are now coming out of the fiscal closet, the deficits will quite possibly go higher than that. The previous speaker was in total denial of that. We would perhaps listen to you a bit more if you put yourself in today with the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224aa79405cd954308948c1d0f36be37a2\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022659389ba7a9446e99ff800729388cde9\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, Mr Deputy Speaker, I did bring you into the debate, and I apologise for that. Thank you, Mr Hughes; I acknowledge that this has been a long day. I ask that members opposite, and in particular the Opposition spokesperson on finance, take note of the latest fiscal accounts available to the public and to all of us here in this building, then frame his comments and speeches around the latest updates and, perhaps, any other secrets that those members know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EWe listened to a tirade before, but we have to face the fact that New Zealand is a capital-deficient nation. We know that. We have a savings issue in New Zealand. Both parties acknowledge that and everyone has spoken about it, but the previous speaker started to talk about the New Zealand Superannuation Fund again. He has a problem with something that National, again, placed before the public. We said we would ask the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation to invest 40 percent of the fund within the boundaries of New Zealand. We are a capital-deficient nation and a savings-deficient nation, so I ask why someone would not endorse the fact that we are trying to keep more of that capital within these borders, rather than funding the motorways and tunnels of Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EAlthough the previous speaker did clarify matters later, he also tried to give us a lecture about the multiplier effects and other things this morning. He did seem to correct himself a bit later, so I will give him credit for doing that, but the logical conclusion of what he said\u2014his true colours were revealed\u2014was that tax hikes were better than tax cuts. If members read his speech in Hansard, they will see that is exactly what he was saying this morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EI will make a couple of further points. I think two speakers on the other side of the House have talked about bloggers. Well, there is one way to get into the blogging space, and that is to talk about bloggers, so that will be highlighted somewhere tonight. I do not know the site that another member was talking about. I ask a question of the previous speaker about bloggers. I ask whether he was talking about The Standard, the union-engineered and funded blogging site. Which blogging site was he talking about? Many of those sites have gone quiet now that many of the previous Government\u2019s employees have moved out of the Beehive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe90749e30224f258c761277983bb340\u0022\u003EFinally, I round off my speech by commenting on the issue of process. I have noted in other speeches in various readings of this bill that this plan was presented to New Zealand before the election and during the election, and that the public resoundingly endorsed the plan. It is our 100-day commitment to New Zealand, and we are delivering on that plan right now. Because we listened to the public then, we are acting upon that plan now. I have a bit of advice for members on the other side of the House. If they get out of denial and into the real world, and if they start to listen to real New Zealanders, they may start to do quite well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u00225648e49b59a64efe80f1e00f63ea84b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225648e49b59a64efe80f1e00f63ea84b5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I pick up a point that Mr English made in his speech. He said the big issues around the details of the taxation changes have been thoroughly debated over the last year or two, in the debate on the various Labour and National proposals in the public arena. That is fundamentally wrong and fundamentally misleading. The National Party did not publish the details of its tax policy until early October, some few weeks before the election. From then on, National never mentioned the details of that policy, at all. Its only reference to tax cuts was in the context of everybody getting them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThat was because National\u2019s polling showed exactly the same results as our tracking polling did. The announcement of that policy caused a sharp dip in National Party support, because it was so unpopular. People did not want KiwiSaver interfered with. People did not want the research and development tax credit to go. People were suspicious about the shape of those tax cuts. It was only when National got back on to its underwear motto\u2014\u201CIt\u2019s time for a change.\u201D\u2014that its tracking polling picked up again. That was all the election was fought on, actually. It was fought and won on that one simple motto: \u201CTime for a change. You\u2019re bored with the old, so in with the new. They cannot be any worse, and if they are, you can chuck them out again after 3 years.\u201D\u2014which is no doubt what the public will do. So let us not pretend that the National Government has got some kind of detailed mandate from the country for the details of this bill. It has no such thing at all, not in any shape or form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EIn any bill dealing with taxation and related matters it is useful to summarise who the winners and losers are, because there tends to be winners and losers. The big winners are clear: very high income earners. People on hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, or more, get a pretty significant tax cut. Once the top rate is cut, it really starts to bite when one gets into those big incomes. But there are modest winners. Let us be fair: there are some modest winners. Non-saving single people on middle incomes are winners. They get about 10 bucks a week in the first year and 15 bucks a week in the second year, which is less than the amount in the 2008 Budget\u2014which was derided, I might say. The second set of winners is bureaucrats. About 100 or so new ones will be required to administer the complex independent earner tax credit and other aspects of the bill. With a cap on the total bureaucracy and with 100 more people going into the Inland Revenue Department, 100 other people will be going from somewhere else\u2014no doubt, bureaucrats who deliver services that affect a different group of the population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ESo those are the winners. Who are the losers? They are low-income individuals earning $14,000 to $24,000. We can say people earning up to $24,000, because people in that income bracket either get less or get nothing\u2014everybody in that income bracket, 90 percent of whom Sir Roger Douglas thinks are wealthy. That is what happens when one sits round the Business Roundtable for too long. Other losers are many modest-income families, all families with kids that earn under $44,000, but also many families with kids that earn quite a lot more than that. Families with three kids that earn $80,000 a year will be worse off under this package compared with the current law. It is not a lot\u201410 bucks a week\u2014but, then, that is all that middle-income single earners will get. They will get 10 bucks a week in 2009\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a81cc2cebd24a7bb431c31bc067b0ca\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: 10 bucks a week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc874281c8f1476da6044ed9f7b5d433\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, about 10 bucks a week. They will be worse off, because they do not qualify for the independent earner tax credit; for them, it will all get sort of washed away. Going back to the families with three kids, that is assuming that the couple are on $40,000 a year each. Beneficiaries and superannuitants who have the temerity to work part time, or have some additional investment income, will also be losers. They have saved all their lives and have got some income, and now they will be taxed more on it, because they do not qualify for the independent earner tax rebate. They will therefore be paying more, because the National Government is not going to raise that $14,000 threshold to $20,000 a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThose are just the losers. The big losers are the savers, the innovators, and the New Zealand economy. On the one hand, very high-income earners are winners, there is a little bit for middle-income single people who are not saving, and there will be about 100 new bureaucrats. They are on that side. On the other side we have low-income individuals, modest-income families, some middle-income families, savers, innovators, and the New Zealand economy. How does one see those scales moving? How does it look to you in the Chair, Mr Deputy Speaker? Does it look as though the winners outweigh the losers? Well, we know from the figures that the Government has used that 80 percent of taxpayers do not gain anything. It all right to quote the 630,000 who gain something; there are 3 million taxpayers in New Zealand. Eighty percent of taxpayers get nothing out of this change. Taxpayers were led to believe that they all got something out of it. Well, they do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut the real loser is the New Zealand economy, and that is the sad thing. We are living in the middle of the worst international financial crisis for getting on for 80 years, and, in part, that crisis is driven by a growing gap between saving nations and borrowing nations. We are right at the far end of the borrowing nations. This policy, this bill, says \u201CLet\u2019s borrow more.\u201D\u2014borrow more by the Government and borrow more by individuals. Why? Because then we might spend a bit more and keep the economy moving along over the short term. As long as we are going into Briscoes, the Warehouse, Farmers, etc., all will be well with the world. We do not need to produce anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EYou see, the Government\u2019s coalition partner is ACT, which is the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers. What is sickeningly missing in that description is producers, wealth creators, innovators, researchers, and anybody who is actually creating a stronger economy. We are all just consumers and taxpayers, according to the ACT Party. The National Party believes the same. It does not believe any longer in the rural sector being the backbone of the nation. It does not believe in a backbone of the nation; it believes in the shopping bag of the nation. If somewhere or other somebody trundles a shopping bag around, we do not need a spine to hang it on. That is National approach to the New Zealand economy. And we do not need research and development; we just live off other people\u2019s research and development. We do not need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EAnd we do not need to change our savings culture\u2014our appalling savings culture in New Zealand. A Government all of whose members qualify for an 8 percent or a 20 percent employer subsidy on their own superannuation is cutting the employer subsidy for ordinary earners from 4 percent to 2 percent. Those members try to claim that all KiwiSavers are wealthy. Actually, the median income of KiwiSavers is about $36,000 a year. If one takes out the kids, the median income is about $40,000 a year, which is well below the average wage. Indeed, that median income has been moving down since the first rush of transferees out of existing superannuation schemes into KiwiSaver, as new people are signing up and new savers are appearing. We are actually getting 18 to 40-year-olds to regularly save. Mr English says there are only 830,000 people in the scheme. That is after 16 months, by which time we expected to have about 350,000 people in KiwiSaver. At this rate, particularly once the financial markets pick up and stop scaring people so much, we will pass 1 million easily, and we will be pushing on to 1.5 million to 2 million people in KiwiSaver. Within 5 to 10 years most people in the workforce will be in KiwiSaver, and they will be people on modest incomes, because for those on high incomes there are better options than KiwiSaver. But for those on modest incomes KiwiSaver is an absolute boon, because it is structured to give a stronger benefit to those on lower incomes than to those on high incomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe learnt today why KiwiSaver is being changed. Mr English finally let the mask drop. He finally showed what a little man with a little mind he is, when he described KiwiSaver as Labour\u2019s latest bribe to the voters. So it had to be punished, and the previous Government had to be punished. And, of course, I had to be punished, because I was the author of KiwiSaver, and I suspect there is a bit of personal, silly stuff in all of this. Well, actually KiwiSaver was not about him nor about me; it was actually about New Zealand and changing our savings behaviour. For the second time in the last 40 years, a National Government has destroyed our best chance to change our savings habits in New Zealand, to turn us into a capital-rich country, to emulate Australia, to provide reasons why people should stay here, and to provide a basis for a stronger financial sector within New Zealand\u2014because the Australian scheme has been a massive boon to the Australian financial sector over the last 25 years. All of those things are being given away in the hope that, somehow or other, some people having 10 bucks extra a week will transform the New Zealand economy. That is not a brighter future; that is a dumber future. It is a dumber future from a dumber Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcbe31e6d91c425493b6a2b9ffd7e527\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcbe31e6d91c425493b6a2b9ffd7e527\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is looking for a transition. We are looking for a transition to a more sustainable and a fairer society and economy. That is how we judge this tax bill. We judge this tax bill on whether it helps in the transition to a more sustainable society and economy and a fairer society. It seems to us that that is how we have to approach it. That is the bar against which we compare it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EOne way to look at the bill is to divide it into two parts. One part is the tax cuts and what is going on there, and the other part is how the tax cuts are to be paid for. When we look at the tax cuts we see that we are replacing the already legislated-for tax cuts with these new tax cuts. These new tax cuts reduce what is going to low to middle-income earners, and increase the tax cuts that are going to the very wealthy. That is what we are doing here. If we did nothing\u2014if this Parliament did not pass this law\u2014then low to middle-income earners would be better off. So if we are going to say that if this bill does not make our country a fairer place, if this bill does not even make New Zealand fairer, and if letting the existing tax law just run would make New Zealand fairer, then, in terms of fairness criteria, in terms of making our society fairer, how could one possibly support the bill, because it does not make our country fairer? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI think the attitude was best exemplified when Sir Roger Douglas talked about beneficiaries. He said to put them to one side, because they get Government money. Somehow if people are beneficiaries and they get a benefit from the Government they can be put to one side. They do not have to be factored into making policy in this country, or they do not need to be factored into our democracy. If one is a beneficiary, one can just be put to one side because one does not have to be considered. I think that typifies ACT\u2019s approach to ordinary New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI would also say, of course, that one of the things we would have liked to see fixed up by this bill was the Working for Families discrimination against beneficiaries. One of the problems with the previous Government was actually the discrimination against beneficiaries under the Working for Families package. It would have been great had National actually moved to fix that anomaly instead of adopting a more unfair scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe other side of this bill is how we are to pay for the tax cuts. One way we will pay for them is by reducing incentives in research and development. That is not a good idea. The Green Party would like to see our research and development tax incentives targeted towards sustainability, rather than just in general, but none the less having tax incentives for research and development is a good idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe other way this bill proposes to fund the tax cuts is through reducing incentives towards savings. For a country with a chronic current account deficit, incentives to savings are critical, and reducing incentives to savings does not seem to make much sense to us. We do agree with the incoming Government that using some of the superannuation fund, and directing it more towards New Zealand where there are profitable ways to invest the superannuation fund money towards New Zealand, does make sense. There is also, I think, an interesting argument to be had: there is a question mark about whether it is a very wise thing to be doing at the moment, at a time of running big deficits where we are borrowing money from overseas, to be channelling borrowed money from overseas into the superannuation fund. I think we need to have that debate. We also agree with having a 2 percent entry level within KiwiSaver, but of course we also want to have the 4 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThen there is the question of how we should pay for the tax cuts. Aside from what is in this bill about how it proposes to pay for the tax cuts by reducing incentives to get smart and reducing incentives to save, how should we pay for the tax cuts? That is where the Green Party supports ecological tax shifting. We think that, as it says in the briefing note to the bill, we should broaden the tax base. The briefing note to the bill states that we have to broaden the tax base and lower the rates. Well, there is no broadening of the tax base in this bill. A way to broaden the tax base is to introduce resource rentals such as a water levy, which would broaden the tax base and create incentives to actually use resources more efficiently, and to have a polluter-pays principle when it comes to greenhouse emissions, which would also broaden the tax base and create incentives to produce fewer greenhouse emissions. That would ease the pressure on the taxpayer, who, as the emissions trading scheme is watered down under this Government, will have to pick up more of the cost of the polluter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe other option for broadening the tax base, which is seldom discussed in New Zealand is, of course, using a capital gains tax, excluding the primary family home. After all, why should capital gains\u2014people who make gains out of capital\u2014not be taxed but other sources of income are taxed? The Green Party would exclude the primary family home, but we think that is a way to broaden the tax base. If we are serious about broadening the tax base, and I think we should be, then we need to look at resource rentals, polluter pays, and some form of a capital gains tax. We also need to look at the question around ring-fencing losses on investment properties, which has been a major problem in our tax system over the last years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EIn terms of macroeconomics, this policy is designed to be a stimulus policy, but it has major problems in it. It would be much better if we were to invest in sustainable infrastructure\u2014that is, public transport, which would prepare us for the future of having to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, and higher oil prices. It would be much better to invest in planting hillsides. We have a major problem of erosion in New Zealand. That would be a much better way to invest in terms of a stimulus package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EOur sewerage schemes are desperately in need of attention right around the country. I am going to Whangarei on Friday because their sewerage scheme up there is leaking into the harbour and that is not really very good for tourism in our country. To clean up our rivers and lakes would cost money. That would be a fantastic investment. It would create jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI totally agree with the Government\u2019s focus on broadband\u2014not necessarily the way it is doing it, but I think investing in broadband clearly is critical to the future of New Zealand. Home insulation is an obvious thing to do if one wants a short-term stimulus package. I think it was Rod Oram who said on the radio that home insulation is something that can be ramped up very quickly. It employs people. One can use New Zealand products so one does not add to the trade deficit, and ultimately the current account deficit. And, of course, there are State houses, which have a high local content. By building more State houses, one actually has high local content so it does not add to the current account deficit or the trade deficit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003ETo focus on that kind of a stimulus package makes a lot more sense in terms of macroeconomic policy than going through this tax cut policy. In terms of the kinds of transition that the Green Party is looking for, which is a transition to a more sustainable and fairer New Zealand, it makes a lot of sense to actually invest in those kinds of projects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThere are a few positive aspects about this bill: the 2 percent that I talked about, and there are some other aspects on it. But overall this bill is not helping to make the transition towards a more sustainable and fairer Aotearoa New Zealand, and it is for that reason that the Green Party has opposed this bill and will continue to do so. We think, actually, it is a missed opportunity. There has been a lot of talk in the National Party about Bluegreens, and it is something the Green Party has been very interested in, because our view, and why we come to this place, is actually to get progress on our policy. We do not care, especially, that we do not have seats in the Government. What really matters is to make progress on policy. Were we able to convince National to actually embrace Green ideas, then that would be a good thing. We were encouraged when the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom seemed to be open to some Green ideas. We were encouraged by the talk about Bluegreens in New Zealand. But when it came down to it, in this bill that we are looking at today, where there was a real opportunity to do ecological tax shifting, and to have a stimulus tax package that would have sustainable infrastructure in it, and when this brand-new Government had an opportunity to think outside the blue box and think a bit about the green box, it completely failed, and we got a classic blue policy. We did not get anything green in this, nothing green at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003ESo this was a missed opportunity from the point of view of the Greens for National to think a little bit outside its boundaries. I hope that over the next 3 years those in the National Government\u2014and I know they do exist\u2014who care about the future of our country and sustainability actually put some pressure on the leadership of National to think outside the blue box and think about how we make the Bluegreen thing real. But because this bill does not, as it stands, help a transition towards a more sustainable and fairer Aotearoa New Zealand, we will be voting against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022 data-id=\u00224eb812c217c54530a4363d148bb000b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224eb812c217c54530a4363d148bb000b6\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Once again it is an honour and a privilege to speak in support of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. One of the great challenges that confronts this country is the requirement to get our rate of productivity growth up. One of the key issues that was in the supply and confidence agreement between the ACT Party and the National Party was to set an aspiration to raise New Zealand\u2019s living standards up to the level of Australia\u2019s by 2025. That is some 16 years away, but that is no easy task, and it is likely to require increases in productivity of over 3 percent per annum. A key aspect of achieving those productivity gains is to have a taxation system that encourages hard work, thrift, and responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EIt has been very interesting to listen to this debate over the last couple of days, because the Hon Dr Cullen asked the question earlier today, why do people move to Australia? He quoted as an example the 9 percent superannuation contribution to employees\u2019 superannuation savings by their employers. I put it to Dr Cullen that the reason people move to Australia is that the standard of living there is far superior to the standard of living in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd515d1f5759428f8d854dedfd5f2a61\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022672011d47066472da10cc96e9efe69be\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Dr Cullen that it is far superior to that here. The incomes in Australia are 25 percent or more higher than those in New Zealand, and one of the reasons that has contributed to that is that Government spending, under the last 9 years of the Labour Government here, has been in excess of the per capita inflation-adjusted base by over $18 billion\u2014$1,000 per household per month; $12,000 per household per year. I tell Dr Cullen that that has resulted in the tax rates in New Zealand cutting in at the highest top marginal rate of 39c in the dollar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EDr Cullen talked about the winners under this legislation being those on hundreds of thousands of dollars of income a year. My point to Dr Cullen is that the winners under this legislation are the 80 percent of New Zealanders who will be paying no more than 20 percent as their top marginal rate of tax from 1 April 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12 midnight to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120912ab9566ff0049fb8f6501731f5af76c001292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224a0b253884f74ca496ff59b4ffcb0124\u0022\u003ETuesday, 9 December 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002256ad698fb8eb451c8277f1bfa05b8631\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 11 December 2008)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002209b7e9f3acea4697a3f505b22f39016e\u0022\u003ETaxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002299846eb54b9a47788ce4f8ef7eb47085\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3ad93448ccb4d729edff273945d222e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3ad93448ccb4d729edff273945d222e\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I started my address last night at 3 minutes to midnight, and I was commenting on some of the questions and issues raised by the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EThe previous Minister of Finance, the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, asked the House why so many people were leaving for Australia. I commented that in Australia living standards are much higher and after-tax wages are also much higher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EThe Hon David Cunliffe suggested to Craig Foss that the reduction in the top marginal tax rates was some sort of utu; that reducing the top tax rate from 39c to 37c was some sort of utu or revenge. I say to Mr Cunliffe that, no, it was not. It was the previous Government\u2019s McLeod report on taxation that called for the top tax rate to be dropped from 39c to 33c. This is the first of many moves that I hope the National Government will make to reduce the top tax rate from 39c to 33c\u2014and it needs to go lower.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EI also noted the sarcasm in the comments of Moana Mackey and the Hon Jim Anderton on research and development incentives. The Hon Mr Anderton said that there was no mention of agriculture or exports in the Speech from the Throne. That member seems to forget that he voted for what was probably one of the biggest taxes on agriculture that this Parliament has ever passed, in the form of the emissions trading scheme. I am very proud to be part of a Government and a party that have ensured that there will be a full review of the emissions trading scheme. If Mr Anderton wants to vote for that select committee review, he will have an opportunity to do so later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EI turn now to the question of tax rates and tax brackets. The argument has been made that these tax changes are somehow an attack on the poor. Well, over the last 9 years we have had a significant increase in Government expenditure; an increase in Government expenditure, per capita and inflation adjusted, of in excess of $1,000 per month, or $12,000 per year. This tax bill simply restores the tax thresholds of people on low incomes who pay that lower tax rate of 21c; it simply restores the position of 9 years ago. In respect of higher tax payers, it does not. There is more work to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EThe key issue of this tax bill is to provide an incentive for people who want to work hard, get on with their lives, earn higher incomes, and contribute to their families\u2019 well-being and the productivity of this country. One of the great problems we have with our tax system is that we have perverse incentives for people to split their income and to enter into schemes that reduce their taxable incomes. When we have a high marginal tax rate of 39c, we are incentivising people not to work, and to enter into schemes that can help reduce their taxable incomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EMy colleague the Hon Sir Roger Douglas was a very proud Minister of Finance in the fourth Labour Government. Comments yesterday from the Opposition referred to the effect that these tax rates will have on those on lower incomes. Well, those folk on lower incomes generally fall into three categories, and that is what Mr Douglas tried to explain to the House. They are either beneficiaries, which I will come to very shortly, or they are the children and spouses of those on higher incomes who split their incomes, or those who have assets of high value and live off the income from their assets. The position with beneficiaries is that benefits paid to beneficiaries are based on after-tax income. We could actually drop the tax rate from 39c in the dollar to 1c and it would not make a single iota of difference to the net income paid to beneficiaries, because beneficiary income levels are based on net income, not gross income. Mr Douglas is very proud that he was the Minister of Finance who put that reform into place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EI will finish as I started in the first reading of this debate by commenting on the Speech from the Throne. The Speech from the Throne highlighted that this country needs to lift its productivity levels and its income levels. What will be fundamental to making those changes over the period of this Government will be a tax system that encourages and incentivises those people who want to get on with their lives, improve their incomes, and improve the lifestyles of their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2631c2de62047a7a0cc0e66c6c50b54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2631c2de62047a7a0cc0e66c6c50b54\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Tena koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare, \u0101, t\u0113nei ata. It has been great to hear the Opposition begin to grapple with what it means to participate in a mana-enhancing relationship. It would be even better if those same members started to reflect on their own behaviour in the House, and how that could demonstrate mana-enhancing principles. It is about listening and appreciating that other parties will have different points of view to their own, and there is nothing wrong with that. We need to respect that the views of others may well be different to somebody else\u2019s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EIn this final reading of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, it is of interest to us that 1 day after the international Human Rights Day, Labour has a new approach to again beginning to consider the interests of vulnerable New Zealanders. The impact of those members\u2019 actions over successive terms was never more apparent than during the urgent call from the Human Rights Commission that New Zealand must adopt a national plan to combat child poverty. Poverty did not occur just today, day three of a new Government, as Labour suggests. It has been here for some time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe other irony is that at 1 p.m. yesterday I, on behalf of the M\u0101ori Party, along with Keith Locke of the Greens, received a petition to the House of Representatives articulating the concerns of many New Zealanders about the former Government\u2019s record in opposing the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. The petition states the deep disappointment of the petitioners regarding an action that they describe as unreasonable and unjust. We cannot ignore the fact that 27 percent of M\u0101ori children live in poverty. Further, the New Zealand Income Survey reminds us that although average incomes have risen, relative to others M\u0101ori are $151 per week worse off. They are $151 worse off despite a period of economic prosperity, so the survey says. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party will continue to speak out today for those who are not so fortunate, just as we did yesterday and will do tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223621ed83e2ad4daebac9bca2616a8e53\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Well, explain why you voted against the Cullen amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022821e8aafad904b8ca808e0bd10499236\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: I will do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe Labour members speak loudly of the vulnerable. Dr Cullen, Mr Mallard, and Nanaia Mahuta should know that this vulnerability did not just happen today. They highlighted vulnerability in talking about our vulnerable M\u0101ori. Our people have not become vulnerable just today. They have lived in vulnerability through successive Governments, with Labour being the most recent. If there are vulnerable M\u0101ori as we discuss this bill, they are likely to have been vulnerable 6 weeks ago before the election\u2014when Labour was in power\u20141 year ago, and 9 years ago. If there is one thing to say, it would be to tell Labour to look in the mirror. Those members speak of vulnerability as if they are the only protectors of this group. In fact, there were a few hundred vulnerable people in the T\u016Bhoe nation who lived in the Ru\u0101toki valley and who were invaded by police on 15 October 2007. I did not, and I have not, heard any of those members speaking up for them, so please do not preach to me about the vulnerable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EMr Cunliffe said that he thought that the M\u0101ori Party and Labour could have done some deals and worked together. Truth be known, those members never talked to us at all while we were on the cross benches, so any offers now are simply too late. But 3 years on, who knows? We need to remember that we could well have been sitting on that side of the House, but we have secured some gains for our people\u2014more than we were offered by Labour, or could have expected from this National Government. We will be judged, of that there is no doubt. That is how it should be, but it will not be against this one bill; it will be over time. We will be working hard to ensure that our people will be proud of our contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThis debate provides an opportunity to consider how well this Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill will assist us in advancing the human rights of New Zealanders and, in particular, M\u0101ori. The taxation bill, in summary, includes personal income tax cuts and threshold changes and a new independent earner tax credit for low and middle income earners\u2014an initiative we have a particular interest in. It is difficult to accept that those earning under $40,000 will receive no tax cut this year, I have to admit. No member of Parliament should be comfortable that low-income families continue to struggle. Families struggle to buy food and to pay for the power, and are forced to abandon their homes, which are becoming increasingly more vulnerable to mortgagee sales. We must consider those people. Unfortunately, this bill does little to address these issues. I have to say it will not reduce taxation at this point in time for the majority of the voters in my electorate and I am disappointed at that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EBut it is day three in this forty-ninth Parliament; it is not a time that the M\u0101ori Party will wave the white flag of defeat and run away from the opportunity to make a difference, for we are here to make a difference. It is, after all, only day three and there are 900 or so more days to come. The M\u0101ori Party is here to make a difference as best we can in the political climate and the constraints we sometimes find ourselves in in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EWe want to state for the record that this is not a bill we were consulted on prior to the negotiation of our relationship agreement with National. This is very much an initiative of the National Party, as explained by the Deputy Prime Minister, Bill English, and National owns it as such. We are concerned that the rebate does not do enough for those at the bottom end. We are also concerned at the targeting of particular groups in this bill without taking sufficient care for those groups whom we have always advocated for, te pani me te rawa kore [the bereft and the poor]. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EBut this is the nature of politics, as Labour well knows. You see, we remember the disillusionment of our colleagues in the Green Party with their honourable intention to introduce legislation to abolish the discriminatory provisions that allowed young workers to receive less than the minimum wage. It was overturned overnight by the Labour caucus\u2014yes, Labour knows about political landscape. The M\u0101ori Party argued that rangatahi should not be vulnerable to arbitrary dismissal or unilateral changes to their terms and conditions of employment. We supported the original intention of the Greens\u2019 bill providing that young people had the right to freedom from discrimination as in the Human Rights Act 1993. Yet, as the Hansard will show, in order to win the support of Labour the Greens had to amend their legislation to the effect that they ended up supporting a new entrant sub-minimum wage for young people\u2019s first 200 hours of work. Yes, they know about political trading. Why? Because they have done it. So, despite the concerns, we will continue to work with the National Party to consider legislation to deal with those who stand to miss out from this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EI want to refer to the trickle-down economic theory that says that boosting the incomes of mid to high income earners through tax cuts will create economic benefits that will trickle down to lower-income earners from the enhanced spending, which will create jobs in the subsequent demand for services. Instead, what we have witnessed over the years in Aotearoa is more akin to a trickle-up effect, which is worsening income inequalities\u2014an effect that the Labour Government failed to give serious consideration to over 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EOur greatest concern, which we share with the Government, is our concern about the inequality in disposable income\u2014the gap between the low and the high-income earners. The Opposition is quite right that our policy is to reduce tax so that no tax would be paid on the first $25,000 earned. We had many questions about this bill and how it fits alongside our aspirations to address low-income taxpayers. Of particular importance in regard to the tax issues being placed here is manaakitanga to the less endowed and rangatiratanga for them. We think of those unable to generate a living income or to create wealth. If the nation is not willing or able to provide adequate manaakitanga to the less endowed, then the shortfall must be addressed by providing opportunities for those people to raise their productive skills, to assist them to be better managers of what skills and means they possess, and to protect them against loan sharks and pokey machine parlours. There is significant value in taking this route and it would be an expression of rangatiratanga. We need education and counselling services, coupled with community banking services, including wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi-designed schools, promoted through community facilities, including schools. The absence of any tax relief in this legislation means that these sorts of alternatives are rather urgent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThis bill focuses tax relief on higher-income earners and it intensifies the earning gap between the low and high-income earners. We do not intend to ignore these realities; we must not punish the impoverished. It was with great concern that we saw the Minister for Social Development and Employment, the Hon Paula Bennett, yesterday release papers that revealed that a substantial group of New Zealanders have continued to be deprived through a decade of relative prosperity. That is a legacy of the Labour Government we must address, and we will support this bill in honouring our confidence and supply arrangement with the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u002236852febea1a4379a0eb254d79203aa8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236852febea1a4379a0eb254d79203aa8\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill in its third reading. I start by thanking the officials who have worked diligently behind the scenes. There is an excellent M\u0101ori proverb that says: \u201CKa pai ki muri, ka pai ki mua.\u201D, which means that when things are working well out the back, they also work well out the front. That is definitely the case here in the third reading debate on this bill, because New Zealanders up and down the country are breathing a sigh of relief. They have seen an Opposition that went to the electorate throughout an election campaign and, faced with some pretty difficult times and pretty difficult decisions, laid its decisions and its promises on the table, to let the electorate know about them. The electorate voted on those promises, we are here with legislation in the House within 32 days of taking office as the Government, and on the 33rd day we are delivering upon those promises. Further evidence of that is the way that John Key brought about a coalition agreement with our partners, United Future, ACT, and the M\u0101ori Party. He brought that together within a week of the election\u2014fantastic. He brought together a Cabinet, a brand new Cabinet, and here we are today, just 33 days after the election, delivering on our promises in the third reading of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EThere are four key parts of this bill: changing the tax rates\u2014and certainly the threshold rates as well\u2014the independent earner tax credit, the changes to KiwiSaver, and the research and development tax credit. Some tough decisions were made there, but decisions have been made and here we are today delivering on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EI highlight the fact that we are in a really tough global recession now. The outlook for business is bad. Back in Napier, when I was campaigning to retain the seat of Napier, I was amongst many, many businesses, particularly our exporters and our retailers, who were all really struggling. They were looking for a new Government and wanted someone who would come to the task of bringing this taxation legislation to Parliament and delivering on it. You see, we are facing some tough times; they are not like the 9 years of fair weather that the Labour Government enjoyed over its period in office. Over that period that Government had $48 billion of tax surpluses. When there are tax surpluses of that magnitude, the Government has the ability to spend as though there is no tomorrow and to make some easy decisions. There were some good decisions, I might add, in that respect; I think the bringing in of KiwiSaver was a good decision. But I say a Government is faced with easy decision-making in that situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EWe have had a Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update that shows 10 years of deficits. I remind the Opposition that at the start of last year we were already heading into recession. The outlook for growth was down compared with that of other countries we like to compare ourselves with, so we were already heading into recession. Then on top of that the credit crisis came through, and when the previous Government delivered the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update it outlined 10 years of deficits. That was the scope of what we had to campaign on and to deliver our election promises on. It meant there were some damn tough decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d5aa3000efb470aaeea0a9691b99923\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Name one!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022494a1a8557764da6afa499be974cc3a5\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: I will name three. There are three tough decisions we have had to make in this bill itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EOne of them concerns the research and development tax credits. If we had been looking down the barrel in 2007 at a $8 billion surplus, we could have said yes, we will give people tax cuts and we will deliver the research and development tax credits. But quite frankly, that was impossible. We have had to make some tough decisions, and those tough decisions have been worsened by the fact that now we are in Government, we find out there is a big hole in the Accident Compensation Corporation\u2019s accounts. That was not disclosed in the contingency liabilities that are required to be disclosed. In those circumstances one has to make some pretty tough calls. We made those tough calls and have come to Parliament to deliver on those promises. Now, 32 days after the election, we are in the Chamber and delivering on them with this bill. I am proud to stand and talk to the third reading of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EFour keys parts of the bill deliver on those promises. The first is the changes to the tax threshold, which are addressed at those Kiwis who have been left out of the previous Government\u2019s taxation changes. They address people in the middle-income tax bracket who did not benefit from Working for Families, specifically. Over the next 3 years the tax threshold will move up. We are starting to look at people in the middle tax bracket\u2014people like teachers, wharfies, and police officers\u2014who have not benefited from some of the other programmes that the previous Government was able to deliver from its $48 billion worth of tax surpluses over the past years. We are in the Chamber and delivering on that excellent promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EDr Cullen stood up and said those taxpayers would be better off under the Labour package. I remind the previous Minister of Finance that he introduced a change to the tax threshold a few years ago, which National nicknamed the \u201Cchewing gum tax cut\u201D. That change was in the law, just like what he says is in the law right now, yet he changed that law. So how can the New Zealand public trust that member? He had a law in place, aimed at reducing the tax threshold, albeit in a small way, in order to benefit the hard-working Kiwis in the middle-income bracket\u2014the engine room of this county; the people who really drive the tax take. Labour had a programme for them\u2014fantastic. But what happened? Labour said it could not afford the change to the threshold, even though it had an $8 billion surplus! Would you believe it! So Labour axed that law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a3cdce3de9b4faa8bcda4c8b6773dd7\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s wired!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8aabb8a073b424aaa43abced3b878fd\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Is it true or not? It is true, so members opposite cry crocodile tears when they say this Government is not delivering for lower-income New Zealanders. Labour had an $8 billion surplus last year\u2014and $48 billion over those 9 years\u2014but said it could not deliver a small tax threshold cut to hard-working police officers, hard-working teachers, hard-working nurses, and hard-working wharfies. It thought that no, it would forget about them and spend that $8 billion on all sorts of other things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EBut despite all that spending by the previous Government, by January of this year the country was already heading into a recession. Go figure that! The previous Government experienced the best economic situation in a generation, yet it delivered us a recession, before the credit crunch hit home. The combined result of that has put the National Government into the pretty damn difficult position of having to make some tough decisions. One of those tough decisions relates to the research and development tax credit. I think it would be wonderful to stand up and say we are delivering tax cuts and the research and development tax credit. That would be fantastic. I am like Dr Cullen\u2014[Interruption] It would be wonderful to be able to deliver that particular tax credit; it is unbelievable that we cannot. So here we are, delivering on the changes to the tax threshold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EThe second area I want to focus on is KiwiSaver. We are, again, responding to the criticism of members opposite, their crocodile tears, about the reduction in the contribution threshold, which is down to 2 percent. When I canvassed around the Napier electorate, I spoke to hundreds of workers who are not in KiwiSaver. They will now be able to afford to enter KiwiSaver. In fact, right now only one in five employees is in KiwiSaver. Let us remember that unless people are in KiwiSaver, they cannot access the credit that is available\u2014they have to be in it. By reducing the threshold, we are allowing a lot of people who earn under the $40,000-a-year income level to access those credits and give themselves a chance to save. The Government is doing a fantastic thing in delivering on that promise. That change will allow a lot of hard-working Kiwis to go into KiwiSaver, access those tax credits, and save. That is a step forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EThere are only a few more speeches to go in the third reading of this bill. We are in the Chamber within 32 days of becoming the new Government, and we are delivering on the promises that we took to the electorate, quite transparently. It is fantastic that we are here to deliver on the things that we promised at the election. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u002293dfb40c16414f038c767b4136aa5443\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293dfb40c16414f038c767b4136aa5443\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Before I address some of the comments made in Mr Flavell\u2019s speech, which I want to do at some length, I just want to point to the Dominion Post cartoon today to sum up the totality of that member\u2019s speech. The cartoon is of Mr English saying: \u201COn the campaign trail I pointed out that the details of our KiwiSaver policy were printed in a micro dot on the back of our pamphlets. These radical changes would have come as no surprise to anyone with a powerful microscope.\u201D The slash-and-burn mentality might have been global, as Mr Tremain signalled, but I say the gutting of KiwiSaver and the tax changes, where anybody under $40,000 gets a big fat zero, were not signalled at all by National. That was not signalled, because that member\u2019s leader went out and talked about aspiration and used the tag line: \u201CChoose a brighter future\u201D. Well, I just point to a couple of figures, and I say to Mr Flavell that 74 percent of his constituents, some 40,008, earn under $40,000. I say to Mr Boscawen, who waxed eloquent about the ACT Party, that even in the sunset-tan paradise of Epsom, 52 percent of the Epsom electorate earn under $40,000. Those people get nothing in this bill. So the proud Mr Boscawen who waxed on about helping people, does not wash. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI want to get to Mr Flavell. I have to say the M\u0101ori Party members have a unique skill; that is, they get their research unit, and they have done it ever since they came to this Parliament, to write out verbatim, word for word, their scripts. I just say, as an observer, that I would have thought that is a bit of an insult to that great tradition of oratory in M\u0101oridom, for a start. But today we heard the alibi for why Mr Flavell and his party are collaborating with these people in the National Party and selling out every constituent they have\u2014in Mr Flavell\u2019s electorate that is 74 percent of the folks who supported him. The M\u0101ori Party got the script from its research unit, presumably washed through the National Party spin doctors and press secretaries. This was to be the alibi, and it went like this. Mr Flavell said \u201Cvulnerability and poverty did not just happen today\u201D and \u201Cthe Labour Party in Government did nothing\u201D. Well, there is a word for that. That member knows it. He is an honourable member, so I will give him the credit of assuming he does not believe what he read out, because it is piffle. But he was told to come down to the Chamber to try to provide some sort of alibi and fight-back to take home to the marae to try to convince them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ELet me remind that member that M\u0101ori unemployment fell to its lowest level in the history of this country\u2014that was under the Labour Government, not his mates on the other side of the Chamber. We have the lowest level of unemployment generally for 20-plus years. That means 370,000 - plus jobs have been created; that helped that member\u2019s constituents. The best thing that the Labour Government did for that member\u2019s constituents was give them the dignity and the pride of having a job. We acknowledge that poverty and vulnerability did not start today; it started 9 years ago when we inherited it from the former National Government. We did do something about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ESo Mr Flavell came into the Chamber and made another startling admission. He says now\u2014this is the new version of the alibi\u2014that his party was not consulted. Now that tells us two things. They were told: \u201COi, you\u2019ve signed the deal, vote for this.\u201D I do not know how mana-enhancing that is. There is a word for treating people like that, but I will not use it. He now says he was not consulted, and that, apparently, is the excuse for continuing to support the bill. I would have thought that, logically, if a member is not consulted, if he has not read the detail, if his coalition partner has not shown it to him\u2014and, of course, that party has two Ministers in the executive, so I would have thought those Ministers would talk and he would see the legislation\u2014if he does not understand it, and if he believes, as he almost said, he has been hoodwinked, then that member and his party would vote against the bill. So that is the flimflam and the alibi that the M\u0101ori Party members will take to their constituents on the marae. They will say they voted so that a person without children earning $23,999 gets nothing because they were not consulted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022419c938907c04ed6a4228bbf3ce91242\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b454e31b1fa649778890a350efc28f47\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: They will be worse off. A person on 50 grand and in KiwiSaver with one child loses $70 per week. \u201CWe weren\u2019t consulted\u201D, that member will say, \u201Cbut we voted for it anyway, like lapdogs.\u201D Two people, one on $33,000 and the other on $22,000, with three kiddies, will be worse off by $14 a week, but the M\u0101ori Party will vote for it because it was not consulted and did not read the bill. It will just line up in the stalls and tick the box. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI say to that member that that is a disgrace. I say to him that I would hate to be in his position. It is worse than the National Government, because everybody knows this is what National does when it gets into Government\u2014it puts the boot in at the lower end. Everybody knows that, so they sort of expect it. But it is worse for that member, as his party has a modicum\u2014up until today\u2014of an honourable tradition. It is worse for that member and his colleagues to go back to the marae and explain that to the most vulnerable. On this side of the Chamber we know that the member\u2019s colleague Mr Harawira is bitterly torn about this bill. We could see it a couple of nights ago when he had to put his hand up to vote\u2014he crawled behind his desk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIt is not good enough for Mr Flavell, even if he was not consulted, to say what he said after 2 days of debate in this House, when the Labour Party has fought tooth and nail. The media might say we are dragging the chain and filibustering\u2014oh no, it is actually called fighting for what one believes in and standing up for one\u2019s principles, which is something that one or two members opposite might want to learn. We will continue to fight this legislation, and we will take it out on the streets. We look forward to people rocking up to our electorate offices and asking why National said they would get a fair go when they are actually paying more at the bottom end. The member Kate Wilkinson, who is sitting quietly in the back row, with the hatchet ready on the next bill on 90-day probationary periods, stood up at candidate meetings and said everybody would benefit from this. I remember it. I remember Woodend and Rangiora. I look forward to quoting her, because I wrote her remarks down. I look forward to those people coming up to me who get nothing from this legislation. We will take this out on the streets, and we will remind people. I say to Mr Flavell that what we have here is a typical Tory trick. It is a hoax: go out and tell the people what they want to hear, then come back\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ada48445f6a4f4ea509a770102b2392\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Like the \u201Cchewing gum tax cuts\u201D! Answer the question about the \u201Cchewing gum tax cuts\u201D. What were they? Was that a promise? That was in law, and you guys cancelled it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265208e02adb5469a8bf3c5e4ff6a26a1\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member has had too many fizzy drinks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022268a3c79e968432d95df8f3f3f6cb292\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: You cancelled it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222061b18725a448168ed31172050607d5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I think you have had too much Coke for morning tea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e3de0945e0a44eba153c7b8ef0b6eb6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd7fca4ad9324c8eb5b4a0b45108c5a6\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if he gives it, he is entitled to get it back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22a1b5fd0264d1db06fa95f9b71cbd2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable member knows he does not include me in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022561409de3a3b4eab8831f791d4673df2\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. I know that you are not a Coke drinker, Mr Speaker; you are a fit man, sir. I suspect you are a Coke Zero man. I was trying to say that I suspect that the member has had too much sugar. [Interruption] I said a \u201Cfit\u201D man. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIt will be interesting when people get their pay packets, look at their KiwiSaver accounts, and know they have been done over. We have seen reports today in the paper where people will lose $300 on what they would have got out of KiwiSaver, and some of those people are on very modest incomes. We know everybody who is on KiwiSaver is a net loser because of this Government. Many of Mr Flavell\u2019s constituents will be members of KiwiSaver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI just come back to a point that I think Dr Cullen made to Mr Tremain. Mr Tremain says, as every member opposite parrots, that National is dropping the rate on KiwiSaver to encourage more participation. If that were true, I suspect we would all line up and tick the box. But the problem, I say to Mr Tremain, which he and his colleagues have never addressed, is that if National is trying to create greater participation, why has it not budgeted for that greater participation in its Budget documents and its plans? National has not done so. If we are going to create greater participation, where will the dough come from? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ETo conclude, I say that we are at the end of the process of the third reading. I invite Mr Flavell to go back to his office with his colleagues and look in the mirror and try to reflect on what he did today, because he sold his constituents out today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u0022122691d376864f89adf670ff32fbc8ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022122691d376864f89adf670ff32fbc8ce\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise in the third reading of the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill. This bill is an example of the National Government delivering to the public of New Zealand, of the National Government making firm and wise decisions in the best interests of this country, and of the National Government having a plan and a direction to build and rebuild this economy so that we can actually deliver the social services that the people of New Zealand deserve and expect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThe reality is that the legacy of the previous Government was a very poor economy and a recession hitting here before the world recession hit. We had some of the highest interest rates in the OECD, and high inflation, and there is a decade of deficits ahead for the incoming Government. That is the reality of what Labour left behind for this country and for the National Government of the day. With this legislation we are taking the first steps to turn that round and provide the direction and incentive for New Zealanders who want to get ahead and prosper. These tax cuts are exactly that; they are there for ordinary, hard-working New Zealanders who want to make a go of their lives, and we want to give them a growing economy so that they can do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThis legislation is also a stimulus for the economy, at a time of economic decline around the world. We need to be out there putting some money back into the economy so that it grows and provides opportunities for employment for all New Zealanders in these tough economic times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThere is one group of New Zealanders whom we need to concentrate on when we look at this bill, and that is our young people. They are people starting out on their life process. They have an education and they are starting jobs. They tend not to earn too much money when they are young, and they need to have some breaks and incentives. That is what this bill provides. We want to give some hope and direction to the young people of New Zealand who want to buy a house and start a family. Those people need some incentives and some support, and this bill gives them a chance. It puts some money in their hands so that they can save and deliver the dream they have\u2014the Kiwi dream of starting that family, owning that house, and building a better, brighter future for themselves in this country. That is what this bill is about: it is about investing in the young people of New Zealand, it is about investing in the future of this country, and it is about giving young people the chance to take a risk and be a success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EThose people do not have to leave New Zealand now; they have a future here. They can see a future here, because we are delivering the right economic environment for them to have that future and that direction. I think this bill is very important for the young people of New Zealand. It is part of setting up the economic growth that will provide opportunities for them in the future, but it also helps them in a practical way in their current circumstances. It provides the impetus for them to get ahead and to buy that first house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a450e0779e274dc8834795006bbf5cd1\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022015f9dc499634500ad806d31aae0f22a\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Because it puts money in their hands, and that is what the Labour Government would not do. Labour would not put money in people\u2019s hands. Labour sat on years of Budget surpluses. It was happy to sit there, take that money, invest in US stock exchanges, and lose money. And now Labour members come back here and criticise things like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ELabour would never give a tax cut. The Hon Dr Michael Cullen is against tax cuts; that is the reality. This is not a case of Labour putting up a big fight. If this is the best fight that it can put up, Labour members will be gone before they know it. There is no fight from Labour about this bill. Labour does not like tax cuts. It just does not like them. It does not want to give money to people so that they can make their own choices. That is the reality. Labour has never given a tax cut to people. Where is the tax cut, the \u201Cchewing gum tax cut\u201D, that the Hon Dr Michael Cullen was supposed to deliver for the people of New Zealand? It has gone. The Labour Government had a Budget surplus, as Chris Tremain said, but it did not deliver that tax cut. Now Labour is voting against another tax cut for individual New Zealanders. Labour does not want to give tax cuts to hard-working New Zealanders. That is the message of the day. The message of the day is that Labour is against New Zealanders, hard-working Kiwis, keeping the money that they have earned and having some ability to decide their own future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ELabour inherently believes that it knows better than ordinary New Zealanders. Labour members think they know better than New Zealanders how to spend their money. That is what Labour is all about. That party will not give tax cuts. But National members believe in our people. We believe in our young people and we are going to give them the chance to make a future in this country. We are going to give them that direction, so that they can make their own choices and can deliver for themselves and their families what they want. That is the choice the public made at the election a few weeks ago. That is what National will deliver to this country, and this legislation is an important element of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ENot only do we have personal tax cuts\u2014something that Labour is ideologically opposed to\u2014but also we have the independent earner tax credit, which is very important for young people who are trying to get ahead. It gives them that start. We also have the KiwiSaver changes, which are important for young people because they mean that they can now get into that scheme. The 4 percent rate was just too much for a lot of young people who are trying to get ahead. The 2 percent rate will give a lot of them the opportunity to join KiwiSaver. It will be very difficult for New Zealanders to save in the coming years, because the economic conditions will be very difficult. Anything that we can do to provide an opportunity for New Zealanders to save should be encouraged, given the tough economic times that are coming. It is the economic reality\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e53fc4cfd5e4bf293f3a83b250904e5\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your advice. Standing Order 106 refers to a member\u2019s rights in respect of him or her being misrepresented. What would be your judgment where a member is misrepresenting himself or his own party\u2019s position? What recourse would the House have? The member is saying that this bill will benefit young people by providing more retirement savings. It is an accepted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299a729efd8af49148b49c34c6010b97a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: By way of point of order, the member is actually introducing a debating matter. That is not something I consider appropriate at all. According to the Standing Orders, points of order are not to be used to introduce debating material.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed1a3b7530e8427f99d55df8ee649079\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. For the new members of the House, I say that that is a common ploy that members of the Opposition use when they are in trouble and know that a member\u2019s speech is hitting at the heart of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c305498c9324b3fb218bc6f83b0747f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. As you well know, once a ruling has been given by yourself we do not proceed to debate it in any shape or form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221db855462d946b69a919c05e127d4d5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has made a perfectly valid point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffa2bf1bfdbe4750b7bd19ba20a6e382\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This legislation is important for the youth of New Zealand. It delivers the direction and the incentive for them to go ahead and provide the future that they demand in this country. National will deliver that future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EOne of the hardest things during the campaign trail was to hear Labour Party members out there talk about research and development. This legislation has a research and development component to it, through the tax credit. Labour members tried to be very regal in the campaign, saying that they were there for the research and development community and that they would provide some great scheme for the future. The reality is that at the same time as they were talking up their research and development policy, they were laying off people from AgResearch, in Hamilton. There is a word that cannot be used in the House that describes that, and it begins with the letter \u201Ch\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202b733704fd346bcb64eb3a0807a3d3c\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e45e2dae00cd4582a050249487482a86\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, what is it? The Labour Government was laying off scientists\u2014the scientific base of this country. Scientists in New Zealand are paid 15 percent less than any other profession. Labour had 9 years in Government\u20149 years of the best economic conditions\u2014and what did it do for scientists in New Zealand? Nothing! What did it do during the election campaign for scientists who were going to lose their jobs? Nothing! What do Labour members actually think about research and development? They do not give a damn about it. They give a damn about their little special projects only. They gave redundancies; that is what they gave scientists during the election campaign. It took National to stand up for those scientists and deliver to them a future. That is the reality of what has happened. Labour members cannot go around the country any more, talking about research and development; their heads should be hanging low in shame at the way that they treated scientists in this country for 9 years. The approach they took was shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EIt is pretty rich for them to come into this House now and talk about research and development tax credits, which are not what the science community wants. The science community wants a strong, growing economy, and we will deliver that. These tax cuts are the first step in delivering it. Not only are we delivering that economy but we are giving the young people of New Zealand the chance, the inspiration, and the aspiration to follow their dreams. We are giving them some reward for making good, bold decisions. This measure will go down in history as the first step, and one of the important steps, in delivering a brighter future for New Zealand and our young people. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9f4c2cbf4054f7eae2b9f620272b056\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9f4c2cbf4054f7eae2b9f620272b056\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E This is a very sorry measure indeed. I begin by reflecting on the lack of consultation on this bill. I want us to consider the regulatory impact analysis team report on the regulatory impact statement. I think it is such a good report that I want to read it into the record. It states: \u201CThe Regulatory Impact Analysis Team has reviewed this Regulatory Impact Statement and considers it to cover the information required and to accurately reflect the analysis undertaken in relation to the proposal. The analysis itself is considered to be adequate in relation to the problem definition and the level of impact analysis undertaken (with information gaps having been explicitly acknowledged). However, due to the timeframes involved, the RIA consultation requirements have not been met.\u201D We now have a Minister for Regulatory Reform and this is the first bill that has been through the office of the new Minister, the Hon Rodney Hide. It is the first bill of the National - M\u0101ori Party - ACT Government, and what does it do? It does not even meet the requirements of its own regulatory impact analysis. As long as information gaps are explicitly acknowledged, then that is OK under this Government and under this Minister for Regulatory Reform. I can only say, as a former Minister of Commerce, what a disappointment this is. What a tragic disappointment! We all expected a lot from Rodney Hide, because he had his bill in front of the select committee earlier in the year. But what a disappointment he has turned out to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI remind this House that business welcomed the introduction of the KiwiSaver scheme with open arms\u2014particularly those who recognised the need in New Zealand to grow real depth in our capital markets. They are appalled that National is passing this bill under urgency, without proper consultation. All of them felt that there would be an opportunity for input, either in terms of the bill before it was introduced or at least being able to make submissions to a select committee. This process is appalling. It does not meet anyone\u2019s standards of appropriate regulatory impact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI want to ask a question of the Government. It is too late now for the answer to be provided, but what do the default providers think of the cut from 4 percent to 2 percent? No one has mentioned that. No one has talked about the scale and scope of the KiwiSaver scheme as a whole, and the impact that this gutting of the scheme will have on the default providers, who quite legitimately put up their proposals to become default providers on the basis that it would be a \u201C4 plus 4\u201D plus Government contribution scheme. What do they say, now that that cut has occurred? Will they be coming back to the Government to ask for some further changes to be made, because the consultation has not been done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EWhat does the Australian Government really think about the portability of a scheme that has been gutted by the incoming National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government? A statement from the Aussie officials has apparently been waved around by the odd member\u2014and I use the word \u201Codd\u201D advisedly of the Government members\u2014but not by Ministers, so it did not have to be tabled in the House. That is not good enough. What does the Australian Government say about portability now? And why did the National Ministers not even think of asking the Australians about the portability arrangements before they gutted KiwiSaver? What sort of Government would campaign on bringing people home from Australia, yet put at risk the millions of dollars that are sitting in accounts in Australia ready for repatriation to KiwiSaver accounts in New Zealand? There was no offer of portability before KiwiSaver, and there is no guarantee of portability now. Why would someone come back from Australia anyway, when the contribution is 9 percent and completely paid for by the employer? In New Zealand it was \u201C4 plus 4\u201D plus the Government contribution but now it is \u201C2 plus 2\u201D plus the Government contribution. I will come back to the Government contribution in a minute, because I think there has been a shameful campaign by the National Party to cover up the real cutting to this scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI have listened to the nonsense of the Government saying that the KiwiSaver cuts are designed to make it accessible to low-income workers\u2014that is the first time I have ever heard them be concerned about low-income workers. Never mind the fact that over 800,000 members of KiwiSaver represents more than 150 percent of the actual Treasury estimates of what the KiwiSaver uptake would be! Apparently the 2 percent is there to help people who are not yet in the scheme to save, yet National has budgeted not one cent for an increase in the number of savers. That is because it has no expectation of increased savers. This is robbing Peter to pay Paul. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe lie that the unions asked for \u201C2 plus 2\u201D has been repeated over and over again. The unions asked to retain the original introductory measure that the Government provided for at the time: the entry level of \u201C2 plus 2\u201D, increasing to the \u201C4 plus 4\u201D over 2 years that we had in place until this Government decided to rip the guts out of the scheme. But the that would have created a compliance nightmare for employers, particularly those who had a high staff turnover. So actually it is a Labour-led Government that cares about the compliance costs of business\u2014not the National Party, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThis has been ill-conceived from start to finish, and it has been mounted on false premises every step of the way\u2014just like hiding in the fine print the increased taxation required for those who are paying over the 2 percent contribution already, and also implying that low-income workers contributing at 2 percent would still gain the full member tax credit at $1,042.86 a year, without mentioning that if one is earning $26,000 a year and paying only 2 percent, one will get $521.43. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe whole point of the KiwiSaver scheme is that it has two elements to it. A mortgage scheme is built into it so that first-home buyers can use their savings over the first 5 years and get a Government contribution. But when one cuts the contribution that the workers and the employers are making, then the money is not available for that deposit gap, which is what it was designed to do. I am absolutely appalled that the Government has not come clean on the real issues that will confront those who expected to use their KiwiSaver accounts to buy their first home. I believe the Government should be held to account for this. Nowhere was that mentioned in the National Party campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EFinally, I say that business has again expressed concern that the research and development tax credit has gone without any opportunity for business to have a say. An optimistic statement at the end of the New Zealand Manufacturers and Exporters Association press statement on Tuesday morning says it all. It said\u2014and it was very optimistic\u2014\u201CHopefully the new Government will revise their ideas on the R\u0026amp;D tax credit and other policies that can better support their stated growth objectives for exports, even in the face of the problems in the world.\u201D Well, that was gone by lunchtime, was it not? Little did the association know that the bill had actually already been printed, and it was not even going to a select committee. It had no chance to have any say. So this so-called business-friendly Government has failed to pass its first test, and that is no credit to any member of the National - M\u0101ori Party - ACT Government. We expect them to shaft ordinary working New Zealanders. We are used to that over here; it is no surprise. But to shaft the business community and our capital markets\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e97c37636e643dfaae2ab1ec85be7a4\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take personal offence to the word \u201Cshaft\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7abb89f2ab14d7ba2cb4cbc7c90cbb4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CShaft\u201D is a pretty standard New Zealand colloquial term, and if we are to stop using terms of that nature, then we will not need even a pocket Oxford Dictionary in the front there; we can get ourselves a new, very small version with a couple of hundred basic words, which will include \u201Ccrusade\u201D, \u201Cliteracy\u201D, and \u201Cnumeracy\u201D, but not much else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0ed6085d6c74a8589e5bae66d5c86e5\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: The word \u201Cshaft\u201D has connotations. If we are to uphold a sense of decorum in this House, I think we should refrain from words that have connotations of that nature. Derogatory expressions like the word \u201Cshaft\u201D, I think, have a sexual connotation that is unnecessary in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fb208b687dd41d38127603c7cea57b1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can understand that members get concerned about language being used. I think the debate has been of very good tone; it has been robust and a very good debate. I do not want to rule too many words out in this House, especially words that are in pretty general usage, but I would urge members to be mindful that some people can find certain words unhelpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbfe8693a288414b961c89bdb372579e\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, we expect the National Party to undermine the lives of ordinary working people. But we do not expect it to undermine business or to undermine our capital markets in its first day in office. No one would have expected that. The National Party has run a smoke and mirrors campaign, but what is deeply disappointing is that the M\u0101ori Party has been conned into believing the rhetoric. There are huge disadvantages for the people it says it represents, and it is shameful\u2014shameful\u2014that the homework has not been done in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022be4ede99e90b42a7ae617c03c9c3cd6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be4ede99e90b42a7ae617c03c9c3cd6e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it seems that the outrage from the left is back. They have rediscovered, in part, who they think they represent, and then have come up to this House with all sorts of screaming rhetoric about how everybody and anybody who disagrees with them is somehow against anybody and everybody who agrees with them. That is no way for a political party to make progress, particularly when we are so close to the time when the last election was held. I cannot help thinking that underlying all of this is the absolute shock that Labour members and former Ministers have that they could find themselves turfed out of office by a party that went out and very openly, up front, publicly, and with nothing hidden told New Zealanders what they intended to do, and then\u2014to the outrage of the Labour Opposition\u2014came into the House and actually did it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EWe have actually moved to lower taxes, and to pay for it by getting rid of a 15 percent tax credit on research and development, which, frankly, is not the end of the story\u2014that has been made very clear. We think it was a poorly targeted way to recognise that. We have also told New Zealanders that we want KiwiSaver to be more accessible, to be open to more people, and we are making those changes so that its affordability for a greater number of people can be assured. All these things were made clear to the very people whom Labour now seems to think we have somehow misled. Well, I do not think so\u2014I do not think so. This is very good legislation, and I am very pleased that it will pass through this House very shortly. Workers up and down this country will be waiting for their payslips, to get the confirmation that the choice they made for a Government was exactly the right one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EIt is also worth noting, I think, that although Labour members are saying \u201CWell, we were offering tax cuts, and they are included in this particular package.\u201D, they are not recognising that their record was to promise tax cuts and then not deliver them. After hiding so much of the true state of the New Zealand economy for the last 5 or 6 months, denying that there is a problem with accident compensation\u2014which costs every New Zealander\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df90b75b2f2d4425bbdb6cc0afac8272\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022931e6674035f43d78e49b51816200784\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: They are laughing\u2014they are laughing because they think that is a huge joke; that is one they put over top of us, and all those sorts of things; they are now saying they would not have come back into this House and lowered taxes. So it is a little bit rich to say that all the new National Government is doing is what they would have done; their record speaks for itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EI want to comment on some of the vitriol that has come from the other side of the House, directed at the M\u0101ori Party. I think it has been utterly disgusting\u2014utterly disgusting. But it typifies what has gone wrong with the relationship in this country, the longstanding relationship, between M\u0101ori and the Labour Party. There is no respect whatsoever, no understanding whatsoever, but just this clarion call that \u201CYou guys should be with us! If you are not, then you will pay a price.\u201D That is just an unacceptable way for any Parliament to conduct itself. The respect of one member for another should be at the highest possible level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EThis has been a strong debate, it has been a long debate, and I think it has been a well-considered debate. It has exposed the weaknesses in the Opposition and the great strengths in the new Government. I look forward to supporting the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223527775dc42c478ab3b81eea9f0259ed\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e73b3ce3ba144bdcbaf623f266b7f2c8\u0022\u003ECommittees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228907f248cb2f4798a33123c22646c022\u0022\u003EBusiness of Select Committees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002236151e423af04321a0965073a0951621\u0022\u003EAppointments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8c7903ccd004eba996b53b0265613a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8c7903ccd004eba996b53b0265613a0\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E As discussed in the Business Committee the other day, I seek leave to amend the motion on the Order Paper in my name to include an additional term of reference after the third paragraph, to read: \u201Cidentify the central/benchmark projections which are being used as the motivation for international agreements to combat climate change; and consider the uncertainties and risks surrounding those projections;\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274fe8348cbd94afc9257a08d5cc318b8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022566d628bc5fa43ccaac8facc19cd9cfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022566d628bc5fa43ccaac8facc19cd9cfc\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That a special select committee to review the Emissions Trading Scheme and related matters be established with the following membership: Hon Peter Dunne, Craig Foss, Nicky Wagner, Dr Paul Hutchison, Hekia Parata, Hon Rodney Hide, Hon David Parker, Moana Mackey, Charles Chauvel, Jeanette Fitzsimons, and one member of the M\u0101ori Party, and that Hon Peter Dunne be chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EAnd the terms of reference of the committee shall be to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ehear views from trade and diplomatic experts on the international relations aspects of this issue\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Econsider the prospects for an international agreement on climate change post Kyoto 1, and the form such an agreement might take\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Eidentify the central/benchmark projections which are being used as the motivation for international agreements to combat climate change; and consider the uncertainties and risks surrounding those projections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Erequire a high quality, quantified regulatory impact analysis to be produced to identify the net benefits or costs to New Zealand of any policy action, including international relations and commercial benefits and costs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Econsider the impact on the New Zealand economy and New Zealand households of any climate change policies, having regard to the weak state of the economy, the need to safeguard New Zealand\u2019s international competitiveness, the position of trade-exposed industries, and the actions of competing countries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Eexamine the relative merits of a mitigation or adaptation approach to climate change for New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Econsider the case for increasing resources devoted to New Zealand-specific climate change research \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Eexamine the relative merits of an emissions trading scheme or a tax on carbon or energy as a New Zealand response to climate change\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Econsider the need for any additional regulatory interventions to combat climate change if a price mechanism (an ETS or a tax) is introduced \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Econsider the timing of introduction of any New Zealand measures, with particular reference to the outcome of the December 2009 Copenhagen meeting, the position of the United States, and the timetable for decisions and their implementation by the Australian Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003Eand report to the House accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EThe motion that is before us lays out in some detail the terms of reference for the select committee to consider, and, further, it names all the participants in the select committee. The committee will consider those terms of reference against the backdrop of the commitment from the new Government in the Speech from the Throne to ensure that New Zealand honours its Kyoto obligations in this first commitment period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EI think that from the committee will emerge a road map for where to from here, as negotiations continue throughout this year towards the decision in Copenhagen in December about the second commitment period. Although there are a lot of pessimists out there about what might happen to the climate change policy of the various countries that are signatories to the Kyoto Protocol as a result of the non-signatory countries coming to the table, I think we in New Zealand should be optimistic that we have a profile such that we can, firstly, negotiate a better position, and, secondly, do something about it. The real effort that has to be made by the world, regardless of a price on carbon or a cost on any activity that is likely to produce carbon in one way or another, is to consider how to reduce the emissions that we as humans emit into the world as a result of the activities we engage in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EThere are those who say we should start questioning the science. I want to make it abundantly clear that these terms of reference do not allow for questioning of the science. Further, I want to make it clear that the National Government does not engage in the activity of questioning the science. What we do want is to see the development of a system whereby the particular and unique circumstances of New Zealand are recognised. We are an agricultural country that relies very heavily on the produce from our farms to sustain our economy. We know that the same amount of production coming off farms in other parts of the world emits considerably greater levels of carbon dioxide than is the case for our own domestic production. We need to have an international system that recognises the quality of our production. That will be, I am sure, something that the select committee, as it considers things, will look at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EThe other interesting thing is the way in which energy is delivered, not only for heating but for transportation, for industrial purposes, and for commercial purposes. New Zealand has a somewhat unique profile in the world in that regard. We have higher levels of renewable energy. Sustaining those over a period of time will be more and more difficult, so it is important that we have environmental standards for energy and fuel use that can guarantee that the steps we are making will make a difference to the country\u2019s carbon dioxide profile.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EA number of interesting people will be on the committee. I think it is a fine mix of those who have a long-term interest in this particular issue, those who were on the previous select committee that looked at the establishment of the existing legislation, and, in Dr Paul Hutchison, someone who has a deep understanding of all of the scientific positions that are available for consideration. The committee includes Jeanette Fitzsimons, a co-leader of the Green Party, who has a particular interest in New Zealand achieving a good result as far as the ongoing process of dealing with our carbon dioxide emissions is concerned. The committee will be ably chaired by the Hon Peter Dunne, who brings to the table his experience of being in Parliament for as many years as you, Mr Speaker, I believe, and also is Minister of Revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EIt is around that picture that there is the greatest threat to New Zealanders, in my opinion. I think there is a huge will to reduce carbon dioxide emissions wherever possible, but I was interested to note that Labour members were talking about their concerns about New Zealanders who live in reasonably strapped circumstances, and who do not have a lot of disposable income. I have to say to Labour members that given the way in which the current emissions trading scheme was progressing, those people were going to bear the biggest cost\u2014every time they filled up their petrol tank, every time they switched on a light, and every time they purchased something off the supermarket shelf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EIt is not an inconsiderable issue that we are dealing with. It has very wide-ranging economic implications, as well as those objectives that are for the benefit of generations to come. I think the select committee will produce some interesting information that will be a good guide and form part of the road map for where this country goes in the future. I state again that the National Government has made it very clear that we will meet our Kyoto obligations in the first commitment period, and we will be very, very vigorous in making sure that New Zealand\u2019s unique position is recognised internationally in any agreement that will apply post-2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u00228e584821ee0a4b7c9532a4ccfad981d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e584821ee0a4b7c9532a4ccfad981d2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Opposition will oppose the motion on the emissions trading scheme select committee. It is but a smokescreen for yet more delay, covering up the fact that National\u2014a decade after it signed the Kyoto Protocol, after 9 years in Opposition, after participation in the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and after access to all the officials through and outside of that process\u2014does not know what to do. National is riven with division within its own caucus. Mr Brownlee has just said that we should have emissions pricing without increasing prices. We cannot have emissions pricing without it having an effect on prices. The very purpose of emissions pricing is to change the relative price of emissions-related activity compared with activity that reduces emissions. National does not know what it wants to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThere is a majority in this House for sensible policy on climate change. Labour supports it, the Greens support it, and National says it supports it. The M\u0101ori Party wants something tougher than the existing emissions trading scheme; that is why it opposed the emissions trading scheme legislation. There is a majority, yet here is a move on the part of National for further delay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EClimate change is, undoubtedly, the largest environmental challenge that the planet presently faces. It is caused by population pressures, which will not go away, and by increasing consumption of fossil fuels and emission of greenhouse gases. There is general agreement with that across the world. US, China, Europe, and Australia\u2014to name just a few\u2014all accept that human-induced climate change is real, and that we need to do something about it. Indeed, Mr Key\u2019s Speech from the Throne, read by the Governor-General, said: \u201CMy Government believes that New Zealand \u2026 must act to reduce greenhouse gas emissions \u2026\u201D. The word \u201Cact\u201D is a very small word. I will read it again: \u201CMy Government believes that New Zealand \u2026 must act to reduce greenhouse gas emissions \u2026\u201D. Unfortunately the word \u201Cact\u201D\u2014as we in this House know better than some\u2014has more than one connotation. In this case the word \u201Cact\u201D was spelt \u201CH-i-d-e\u201D. The Government is \u201CHide-ing\u201D behind ACT to try to avoid taking responsibility. After 9 years in Opposition and after full participation in the climate change debate, it does not know what it wants to do next. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EYou know, in the months leading up to the election different members of the National Party said different things. David Carter told the farming lobby that National would soften the emissions trading scheme for agriculture. Jacqui Dean said that the legislation would be repealed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a301f037473a46ecbf2a927c60049915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221497f0a1f8364c9084cc30a50660c8e6\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is not true. I did not say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e37b24fe7f8438daafe184c686852b5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has been in this House for some time and knows that that is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220076b7e8db0e4066a602c63d79af39ef\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Jacqui Dean was reported in the Timaru Herald\u2014and after she made a denial, the paper stood by its report\u2014as saying to an electoral meeting in Timaru that National would repeal the emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EDuring the election there was a debate on Radio New Zealand National. Nick Smith took umbrage at my claim that National did not know where it stood and was planning to do things other than proceed with an emissions trading scheme. I remember his words. He said: \u201CHear me, Kathryn Ryan. Let me be quite clear.\u201D\u2014he uses that phrase quite often\u2014\u201CNational is going to proceed with an emissions trading scheme, and it\u2019s going to include agriculture.\u201D That was his promise during the election. Jeanette Fitzsimons buttonholed John Key at Waikanae. Again, this was reported verbatim; the recording was played repeatedly on Radio New Zealand National. He said that his party, if elected as Government, would proceed with an emissions trading scheme, and it would include agriculture. Yet what is it doing? It is setting up a select committee that will consider, among other things, whether we should have any pricing, whether we should just mitigate rather than do anything to reduce emissions, and whether we should have a carbon tax. This is yet another flip-flop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EIf the select committee proceeds\u2014and the Government has the numbers, so it clearly will proceed\u2014we will hear all the emitters, having opposed the carbon tax, say that they now want a carbon tax. The gas lobby, the coal lobby, the smelters, the Major Electricity Users Group, the Greenhouse Policy Coalition, and the Business Roundtable, all of which are interlinked\u2014if one looks at the individual members of these groups, one finds that they are just about the same people every time\u2014will come along and say that they want a carbon tax. They will say what the Business Roundtable has already said, which is that it wants a carbon tax of about $5 a tonne. In other words, these emitters want four-fifths of the cost of increasing emissions to be with taxpayers, and one-fifth of the cost to be with them. They are not worried about the environment. That system will not reduce emissions, but that is not their concern. They just want to minimise their own costs, and they want to be able to increase their emissions at the cost of the environment and at the cost of taxpayers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThis is just bad, bad policy, and it is having real effects already. The leading publication on energy, in my opinion, is NZ Energy and Environment Business Week. I have in front of me issue 55, of 26 November. It says: \u201CForestry projects worth about $400 million have been cancelled, within a week of the Govt announcing it will delay the ETS while it carries out a review. Scores of new forestry jobs which would have been created due to the ETS are now going to be put on hold.\u201D It then lists the projects, and it has Roger Dickie and a consortium, GreenAir, saying that some of these projects will not come again. There are real consequences of doing this, and the real consequences include rising unemployment, which the Government is responsible for and should be held to account for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EIn addition to those jobs, there is the fledgling carbon trading market to consider. The carbon market is a service industry. We need jobs in New Zealand. We need new, high-value jobs. New Zealand was a world leader in this area. The service industry was locating here. The same issue reports that EcoSecurities, \u201Cone of the biggest players in the international carbon market, which was due to launch its business in NZ this week, has pulled the plug.\u201D\u2014further economic consequences for our country of National doing nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThis is an outrageous proposition. It does the business of the major emitters, at the cost of taxpayers, at the cost of people who are employed in New Zealand, and at the cost of rising unemployment. National is using the ACT Party\u2014the last naysayers in the country. ACT accuses everyone else of being dogmatic and refusing to listen to alternative points of view, but it is unwilling to accept the majority view of scientists, which is now compelling and has reached the stage that Governments around the world are accepting for policy purposes that human-induced climate change is proven, and that we have to get on and respond to it. The ACT Party sits out there as naysayers; it criticises everyone else who has the gumption to make a decision and to take on their responsibilities as parliamentarians around the world. ACT says that we are the ones who are intolerant and dogmatic, not themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EHow can John Key stand there and say that he will promote employment growth, economic growth, and tourism? He is the self-appointed Minister of Tourism. He had his first little wake-up call when he went to see Gordon Brown, did he not? Gordon Brown slapped down the little upstart who had turned up from New Zealand to ask him to please not impose a tax on long-haul flights to New Zealand. What was he told? He was shown the door. He could not stand there and credibly ask Gordon Brown to please not do anything improper to the interests of New Zealand, because he was having an inquiry as to whether climate change was real. Having promised an emissions trading scheme, which the whole of Europe already has in place, he recanted and said that National will now look at it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThis is an outrageous breaking of a promise by the National Party. It promised time and again, during and prior to the election, that it would proceed with an emissions trading scheme. It said it would amend it\u2014that is fine. I concede that there are grey areas; there always will be. There is a discussion to be had as to whether the phasing out of free allocation is right. There is a discussion to be had around whether there should be a reserve for new entrants to the scheme. Those are proper areas for discussion, and that is where the discussion should be focused. There was no need to suspend the market. There was no need to ruin the prospects of the fledgling carbon market industry. There was no need to ruin the hundreds of millions of dollars of inward investment that will now not come to New Zealand. There was no need to unnecessarily increase unemployment, which the Government is doing as a consequence. This is bad policy, and the motion will be opposed by Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022 data-id=\u002260565e3c1faa46ccbe92e1478a0ca0b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260565e3c1faa46ccbe92e1478a0ca0b3\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E This is a very important motion to set up a very important select committee, and I think a really important select committee like this needs to have a title that is rather less boring than just the \u201CClimate Change Committee\u201D. I think it should be honoured with a title that indicates what it will do and just how very important it is. I have three proposals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EWe could call it the \u201CClimate Change (Avoiding All Action) Committee\u201D, because its clear purpose is to cause delay. When we look at the terms of reference and think seriously about what it would take to deliver on these terms of reference, and when we consider that a select committee normally meets for 3 hours a week, my guess\u2014and it is quite an educated estimate, having sat through the last such committee\u2014is that it will take 3 to 5 years. It will take 3 to 5 years to do justice to these terms of reference. But clearly that is not what the Government has in mind, and that means the evidence that will be accepted will be highly selective, because there will not be time to receive all of it, and we know how the selection is likely to be made. So this committee is there primarily to waste time, to delay the point at which emitters have to pay to clean up their own mess, and to extend the period during which taxpayers pay for it all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThere is another title we could give this committee. We could call it the \u201CStifle Innovative Investment in New Zealand Project Committee\u201D, because that is what it is already doing. We have heard from the Hon David Parker, the previous Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues, that some investors are turning their backs on New Zealand and going away. I happen to know about one case that I think is environmentally very serious, and that was a great economic opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EA smallish firm had established some strategic partnerships to permanently reforest steep, eroding land, the sort of land that desperately needs reforesting. It was doing so in partnership with a honey producer, which was to plant some m\u0101nuka as part of the regeneration project and get high-quality m\u0101nuka honey for medicinal purposes, and it was to do it in partnership with landowners. The firm had an amazing project going; it had it all worked out. The firm has folded its tents and left permanently. It struggled all last year, waiting to see what the final form of the law would be. It managed to keep going during that time. The firm now says that with the scheme suspended and with no guarantee that it will ever exist, it cannot afford the overheads of keeping the business together, so it has gone. I think that is a tragedy, because there is much land in New Zealand that would benefit from that kind of reforestation, to say nothing of the effect it would have on our greenhouse emissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EWe could also call the committee the \u201CKeep Rodney Out of My Hair Inquiry Committee\u201D, because that is clearly what it is really about. Members should make no mistake about it: these are Rodney Hide\u2019s terms of reference. When we look at them word for word, we see they are verbatim, except for one small change that looks as though it might be significant, until we look at what has been substituted for it and we find that it is not significant at all. John Key has allowed a party with 3.7 percent of the vote, a party that could not even get 5 percent, and with known extremist views to dictate the way that climate change will be considered by our Parliament. That is undemocratic and it is a travesty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThe only change, according to what the Minister of Energy and Resources has just told us, is that the committee will not be re-examining the science, because the Government has removed Rodney Hide\u2019s first proposal for the terms of reference. Well, I am sorry, but that is not true. If we look at what has been substituted instead, we see that the committee has to look at the projections that are being used to base the international agreements on\u2014that means the projections of climate change and the rate of it\u2014and to \u201Cconsider the uncertainties and risks surrounding these projections\u201D. That means the whole question of climate change and whether it is real is on the Table. Rodney has won every single thing he wanted in this inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThe Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has hundreds of climate scientists\u2014highly prestigious, highly specialised climate scientists\u2014and thousands of other scientists and other experts in impacts, responses, and so forth who work every 4 years for a whole 4 years, full time, to peer review all the published science for that most recent period and to come to a conclusion about what it means, and they publish that for everybody to see. It is a large book, with many, many appendices in other large books, and it is published every 4 years. A select committee, meeting for 3 hours a week, is supposed to duplicate that work and come to the right conclusion, when the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change could not\u2014I mean, what kind of a mickey mouse outfit is this? Maybe we should call this committee the \u201CMake New Zealand an International Laughing Stock Committee\u201D, because that is what we will be if we go down this route. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EI find it interesting that on the night before the terms of reference were given to Parliament, the Hon Peter Dunne, who is to chair this committee, had not seen the terms of reference. He told me that he understood it would be a narrow review of the emissions trading scheme mechanisms, which is what John Key promised before the election. Well, actually, an incoming Government has the right to review the policy that we use to tackle climate change. We might not agree with where the Government wants to go, but if it had in fact brought to this Parliament a committee to review within a narrow framework whether the specifics of the emissions trading scheme were the best way to reduce our emissions, then the Greens would have supported the setting up of that committee, because we think it is the democratic right of an elected Government to do that. But that is not what the Government is doing and, therefore, we will be voting against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThe committee is expected to have a crystal ball. It is being asked to guess whether there will be a post - Kyoto Protocol agreement at all for after 2012, and it is being asked to guess what form that might take. Well, we could all have fun speculating on that, but what value will it be to the Government or this Parliament for a bunch of politicians to say: \u201CHmm, I wonder whether they will or whether they will not.\u201D, when we have negotiators over there in Pozna\u0144 now. Surely they are best placed to tell us where the international negotiations are heading, and surely it is our role to do our utmost at those international talks to make sure that there is a post-2012 agreement, that New Zealand plays a strong role in getting a post-2012 agreement, and that it is the strongest agreement we can get. After all, that is what the world is relying on us to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThe terms of reference are very biased. They direct us to look at all the negative local effects of a price on carbon\u2014like what households will pay\u2014but there seems to be no scope to look at the effects of allowing climate change to go unchecked and at the much larger negative effects that that will have on not just New Zealand society but the whole world. There is also no scope to look at the effects on the economy of leaving the taxpayer to pick up the entire bill for climate change. There is certainly nothing here that suggests we have any responsibility at all for what happens to the rest of the world as a result of our emissions\u2014and our emissions, if we go back to 1840 and include all the forest clearance, plus all the burning of carbon fuels, are not insignificant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EWe are to hear first in the terms of reference from trade experts. The issue is being treated like a trade negotiation, where all countries fight from their individual corners and no one argues for the common good. This is not a trade negotiation; this is an attempt to reach a collaborative agreement about the future of the world, and we need to take that seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EWe are to discuss whether it is better to try to limit climate change, which we have been doing so far, or whether we should just adapt to it. That suggests that climate change will bring about some new, steady state that can be predicted, and that we can adapt to. Well, that is not true. If climate change continues unchecked, there will be no new, steady state. There will be constantly changing parameters of climate that we can never adapt to, because they will happen faster than adaptation ever can. Of course, we will have to do some adaptation to what will happen anyway, but it is not a substitute for trying to stop climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThe Greens are not apologists for the current emissions trading scheme. We are sceptical that emissions trading creates an opportunity for many people to create markets in buying and selling carbon where they do nothing except leverage the market, but it is the only thing going to put a price on carbon. We need to get on and do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022 data-id=\u002296df40fa50bf41f989e88ab87055a156\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296df40fa50bf41f989e88ab87055a156\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Hon David Parker and Jeanette Fitzsimons for their contributions. I can understand their frustration, because David Parker put a lot of effort into the emissions trading scheme, and I know that for Jeanette Fitzsimons this has been a key policy for the Greens. Pete Hodgson also did a lot of work in the early days of the scheme, and I can imagine the frustration of those members when we have an election and the scheme comes up for review, but that is the nature of democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EI should also say that this was not easy in our discussions between National and the ACT Party. National and ACT share a philosophy and a vision of New Zealand, and therefore we were able to conclude our confidence and supply agreement quite quickly. I note that the Greens and the Labour Party, or the Labour Party and the M\u0101ori Party, have never been able to reach a confidence and supply agreement, but between National, ACT, and the M\u0101ori Party we could do it in 8 days. For National and ACT, working with John Key and the National Party, it was easy and seamless because we share a vision and a philosophy. Our differences on policy were relatively small, but this was one difference. The National Party had campaigned to keep the emissions trading scheme, and the ACT Party had campaigned to dump it. As it turned out, we got five MPs, and National got\u2014how many MPs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd708edd920941da9ff9aa62637e33ec\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: 58.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022151f8faaffbb4adaa9ff47aa2b34bb35\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Overwhelmingly, the vote went National\u2019s way. But what I appreciated about John Key and the senior team of MPs he had as part of his negotiating team, was their willingness to sit down and work with the differences we had, not in order to get some political solution but to get a solution that was in the best interests of the country. That is what I appreciated about working with John Key. As it turned out, even our differences could be worked through quite quickly. I contrast that with the Labour Party and the Greens, who have never been able to work out their differences. As for the Labour Party and its appalling attacks on the M\u0101ori Party that we have witnessed in recent times, there is absolutely no respect from Labour for other political parties and differing views. If that is the attitude of the Labour Party, then it has not learnt the lesson of the 2008 election campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003ESo what do we have here? We have a select committee looking at what Labour and the Greens should have done from the start, which is to analyse this issue, to consider it in a world setting, and to consider the costs and benefits to New Zealand. I ask members whether they remember when Pete Hodgson came back from overseas. He glowingly told the House that he had done a deal that would see us better off\u2014I think, from memory, by $500 million\u2014because we were so clever. I think a year or two later it became a $500 million loss. The idea then was that taxpayers would have to write a cheque to benefit the Russians because their industrial economy had collapsed. The idea that Labour and the Greens think it is OK to be writing a cheque to the Russians because Pete Hodgson had signed some deal, I have to say is nuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56d3de26e1a4522b7e6ed099ca2ad05\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Read the bill. That\u2019s taken out of it. The Greens got rid of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c68237966e9f4168bee2907c15690fd5\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the member says read the Climate Change (Emissions Trading and Renewable Preference) Bill. I am going over a bit of history here. The second thing to happen was when we had to have the emissions trading scheme in order to reduce the liability of the taxpayer, but that liability was created by Pete Hodgson in his signing up. We have had a change of Government, so I say let us look at it. It is called democracy. So what do we do? Jeanette Fitzsimons has criticised me for not turning up to the Finance and Expenditure Committee when it considered the bill. I made a deliberate decision not to turn up. Why? Because that select committee concentrated only on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f4849cbe8c94cb5b765564aad35f7ee\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s its job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb905e860ef24104bbf7e1ad14356823\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. If anyone came along to question the science or ask about the costs and benefits to New Zealand, I am afraid they were given short shrift. I will tell the former Minister for Climate Change Issues, David Parker, what my job was. My job was to go out and get the party votes so we could establish this select committee and do the job properly in the best interests of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EFirst of all, here is the issue of the science. David Parker goes around telling the world that all the scientists are agreed. That is a lie. That is not true. He goes around telling the world that carbon dioxide is a pollutant. That is not true. That is a lie. David Parker goes around telling the world that we are living in a carbon-constrained world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b933c5a21ff4475b920b72371734ac5\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister of Local Government is making a robust contribution to the debate but he cannot, as he has done twice now, accuse a member of telling a lie, or refer to a statement of a member as a lie. That is not within the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ebf6f93ff2e4b4aadd34cf89cf8b706\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is correct. By phrasing the matter in the way he did, the member is clearly trying to say that a member of this House has told a lie. That is not within the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bc047dae487489eb9f127b918a45f66\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: The former Minister went around telling New Zealand that we are living in a carbon-constrained world. That is not true. The whole thing was just beat up on these particular stories. This is what we have. We have an interesting theory that has been around now for well over 100 years that says if we increase greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, in particular carbon dioxide, then we could warm the planet. It is a theory. It is a hypothesis. We then have computer models that work on that theory and hypothesis to produce projections 100 years out that say it could warm in this particular way. By the way, the computer models must have a very interesting interaction between carbon dioxide and water, because water vapour is the chief greenhouse gas. I remember Moana Mackey\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222da211cea6e47b79be1cafccaa81d5d\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Backbenchers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022763b89f3a1504cdbb0724559792fb598\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. I was thinking of the member\u2019s mum. I was getting confused. When someone pointed out that we had pictures on Television New Zealand of water vapour going up chimneys, Moana Mackey said water vapour is a greenhouse gas too. I thought this Labour Government will not only be controlling the dribble in our showers but also stopping us boiling the kettle, because water vapour is the chief greenhouse gas. That is how silly they are with their science. I would have thought Ms Mackey, who supposedly has a degree in science, would understand a little bit more than the stupidity that came out in that select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003ESo we have this model, and we look at it, and we find this\u2014the data does not back it up. The models have never been verified. We had people coming to the select committee hearing, pointing out the flaws in the model, and the Government refused to hear them, to question them, or to take on board what they said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003EHere is what we have happening\u2014it can move quite quickly; there is no need to take 5 years. Jeanette Fitzsimons might think that doing a bit of work takes 5 years, but when we have the National - ACT  - M\u0101ori Party Government, things do not take 5 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220347709873f341eb9be24e72099bd138\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Say it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39352c44a5645d6bb92f1bae42064dc\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the Labour Party wishes the M\u0101ori Party did not exist, but I say to Labour members to get over it, because it does. Why does it exist? It exists because Labour screwed up. It tried to take people\u2019s property rights and deny them the opportunity of justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221730d17514a04d6c82a60b09f2cb3c2b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t patronise the M\u0101ori Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282ada7c57f3d4cc28d49ba04f3de58e2\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I am not patronising it; I am patronising the Labour Party, because it had the attitude that M\u0101ori people did not have the rights of all New Zealanders\u2014the rights that people fought and died for. Yes, we are going to listen to and consider what scientists say. Yes, we are going to look at what is happening around the world and see what other countries are doing, and we are going to look at the costs and benefits to New Zealand. Then ultimately, there will be a political response. That is what a democracy is about, and it does not matter\u2014whatever way it goes, ultimately it is politicians elected to Parliament who will decide the appropriate response for New Zealand. The ACT Party says to get some evidence here, because David Parker\u2019s mind is made up, Jeanette Fitzsimons\u2019 mind is made up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2cf72291f1e42f085c0def49b45f827\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I regret to advise the member that his time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022da4af4ad1aa844fcb30c22d98e967757\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da4af4ad1aa844fcb30c22d98e967757\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Huri rauna, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou i te mea ko taku k\u014Drero tuatahi t\u0113nei i roto i t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga o te tau. N\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to us all throughout the House. I extend greetings to you, because this is my speech for this part of the year. So greetings to you, and to all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EJust very briefly, because this is my first opportunity to speak in the House since the new Parliament started, I would like to mihi to everybody here. Ki a koe e te tuahine, e Hekia, Carmel, e Sio, koi an\u014D hoki e Nanaia me taku tuahine an\u014D e nohonoho nei, Rahui, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Huri rauna, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003E[To you, sister colleague, Hekia; to you, Carmel and Sio, as well as Nanaia, another sister colleague; to you, Rahui, seated there, greetings to you and to everyone throughout.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EIn the last dying days of the recently departed Labour Government, the M\u0101ori Party put up a proposal to recognise the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi in the emissions trading scheme with reference to all iwi that have reached settlement and with the specific inclusion of the words \u201Cthe Ng\u0101i Tahu Claims Settlement Act of 1998\u201D. We put up the proposal because we believe that the integrity and value of Treaty settlements should not be set aside during the crucial debate on the legislation regarding climate change. Unfortunately, however, our proposal to include the Treaty was voted down by the Labour Government, including every single one of its M\u0101ori MPs. Indeed, the only people with the courage and the foresight to support the Treaty were the M\u0101ori Party, the Greens, and\u2014surprise, surprise\u2014ACT, and I extend my deepest thanks to the Greens for their consistent support for the Treaty over the years. And so we are glad that the Government has agreed to set up a special select committee to review the emissions trading scheme, which enables us to raise the concern expressed by iwi that the emissions trading scheme as it is currently worded represents a significant threat to the integrity and finality of their Treaty settlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EJust to put some context around that statement, Ng\u0101i Tahu advise us that in their analysis the emissions trading scheme will impose heavy liabilities on their pre-1990 forestry lands and wipe tens of millions of dollars off the value of the forestry assets they acquired through their settlement. It is their contention, in fact, that the Crown was bound, both legally and morally, to address their concerns, knowing full well that the emissions trading scheme would significantly erode the market value of the pre-1990 forestry lands they had purchased with the intention of converting those lands to better use. Now, 20 years after the settlement, the loss to Ng\u0101i Tahu under the emissions trading scheme will, in fact, exceed the total quantum of their settlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EIt is fundamental to good relations between the Crown and M\u0101ori that the Crown does not act unilaterally to erode Treaty settlements, so we are glad that this Government is reviewing the emissions trading scheme, in the best interests of honour, good faith, and the national interest in terms of the integrity of Treaty settlements. In order to help the Government to honour its commitment to M\u0101ori, we are happy to suggest that the following phrase be added to the terms of reference for the committee: \u201CThe committee shall consider the impact of the Emissions Trading Scheme on the integrity and finality of Treaty settlements, having particular regard to the relationship to pre-1990 forested Maori land.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EOn another related matter, it should also be a matter of grave concern to learn today that Labour\u2019s shameful failure to support the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples continues in the negotiations currently taking place at the UN Climate Change Conference, where it appears that Labour\u2019s appointees continue to oppose recognition of the rights of indigenous peoples and local communities in a decision on deforestation and forest degradation, and continue to oppose measures to protect the rights of the very indigenous peoples who have sustained and protected the forests targeted under the agreement for thousands of years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EIn the final analysis, the emissions trading scheme is, at best, only a scheme. We must all take responsibility for our emissions, we must all be inclusive in our approach, and we must agree to work together to develop a programme of emissions reductions that slows climate change and protects the environment. The M\u0101ori Party will be a willing and active participant in the special select committee to review the emissions trading scheme. In recognition of the particular concerns highlighted by Ng\u0101i Tahu, we have decided that our MP for Te Tai Tonga, Rahui Katene, will be our representative on that committee. No doubt National will appoint Hekia Parata for the very same reasons. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u0022235a69b0d7384675b025e555922c6b82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022235a69b0d7384675b025e555922c6b82\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am just seeking some clarification from you, procedurally. Mr Harawira signalled that he had additional terms of reference he wanted to have included into the work of the select committee. I am just wondering whether he will now seek the leave of the House to have those specific terms of reference included so we can debate the whole motion: the Government\u2019s published terms of reference; the terms of reference paragraph we have added subsequently by leave, which has been agreed to; and now Mr Harawira\u2019s terms of reference as well, about Te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e26a63f2d15545bb863c5ae29ae79e3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e26a63f2d15545bb863c5ae29ae79e3d\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Negotiations are already under way to table those terms of reference to the select committee. I say thank you very much to Mr Hughes and tell him that we will be doing our utmost to ensure that the Treaty of Waitangi is raised in relation to every piece of legislation that comes before this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249e0790ec94241889ffb7395c43c84cc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022 data-id=\u00228bec56e621a24c499a727f25fff61f17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bec56e621a24c499a727f25fff61f17\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this very important motion regarding the formation of the special select committee to review the emissions trading scheme set up by the previous Government and related matters around it. There is no doubt that this is a unique opportunity to be thoughtful, balanced, and wise over the world\u2019s most important environmental issue. Indeed, it was refreshing to hear the M\u0101ori Party and Hone Harawira point out in a measured, insightful, and forward-thinking way how M\u0101ori and New Zealand\u2019s interests must be looked at in this manner. It is extraordinary to think that the losses to Ng\u0101i Tahu under the emissions trading scheme will exceed their Treaty settlements. Something must be fundamentally wrong with Labour\u2019s emissions trading scheme legislation if that is the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EWhatever the evidence of the science, the potential risks of climate change due to human-induced greenhouse gas emissions are enormous, and New Zealand must develop a best practice, practical risk-management response based on the most up-to-date information available. Indeed, the formation of this select committee is very important and a unique opportunity to do exactly that, given the history of the formation of Labour\u2019s emissions trading scheme over the last 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EI agree with David Parker. It was, indeed, a National Government that signed up to the Kyoto Protocol back in the 1990s. But it was extremely worrying that in 2001-02 a somewhat zealous Labour Government decided to become the white knights or crusaders of the climate change world and ask New Zealand to lead. But it did this in a very shrill and, certainly, not a practical way. In fact, it was quite extraordinary when, in its initial legislation the Government became so zealous that it had carbon police\u2014I can think of no other term for it than that\u2014who were going to go around New Zealand farms and other institutions checking up on New Zealanders to the extent that Professor Joseph from Canterbury University said this was nothing other than State-sanctioned trespass being encouraged by the then Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EAs Rodney Hide pointed out, it was, indeed, extraordinary that the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues at the time predicted that New Zealand would have a windfall gain of over half a billion dollars; instead we have a debt of over half a billion dollars. This exemplifies just how out of touch the Labour Government was in the origins of its emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EBut it was not until 2007-08 that the Government finally formed its response to this hugely important world situation. I think there is no doubt that it was not brought together with the sort of responsibility that is required from such a hugely important issue. People and submitters all over New Zealand were simply not given time to be heard appropriately. Labour rushed through its emissions trading scheme with reckless irresponsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EI think it is important to say that National is absolutely committed to its Kyoto obligations, and we have said quite clearly that we will base legislation on six very important principles that will balance our environmental responsibilities with the economic practicalities that face New Zealand. As the member of Parliament for Hunua, I think there is probably no other electorate in the country that has these practical issues so personified. Firstly, of course, there are the large farming areas, the producers, and the vast glasshouses that are directly affected, adversely, by Labour\u2019s emissions trading scheme. It puts them into a hugely uncompetitive situation with the rest of the world. There is no doubt that this must be revised, because the primary producers of New Zealand are the backbone of our economy. This has been agreed on by every party in this Government, yet the current emissions trading scheme adversely affects them to the extent that their competitiveness is deeply, deeply affected. It is that sort of thing that the Labour Government has swept over and that is so important to the future of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EBut another practical example in my electorate of Hunua is that of the New Zealand Steel mill. If, indeed, New Zealand Steel was to go under, New Zealand would become totally dependent on imports from overseas. Already BlueScope Steel has put on hold a $1 billion investment into the New Zealand Steel mill, including $200 million that will expand a vanadium extraction plant and allow New Zealand to become one of the leading exporters of vanadium, a low-volume, high-value, high-technological export that is the very sort of thing that New Zealand should be doing. On the other hand, if New Zealand Steel was to close down, we would lose 1,200 direct jobs and 5,000 to 6,000 jobs around the country, and we would be dependent on the rest of the world for imports to New Zealand. Further, New Zealand Steel operates under world best-practice, with 66 percent cogeneration of electricity. Inevitably a much less efficient steel factory would replace it, probably in India or China, and the net effect would be more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. This is the sort of thing that Labour\u2019s emissions trading scheme did not take into account. Therefore it is hugely important, like the situation with Ng\u0101i Tahu where, indeed, the loss under the emissions trading scheme will exceed its Treaty settlement, that it is right and appropriate that this Parliament, in a careful, calm, and collected way review Labour\u2019s emissions trading scheme and look at how, indeed, we can balance our environmental responsibilities with the economic practicalities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003EThe terms of reference have been well-thought-out. There is no doubt there are uncertainties about the science, but any scientist in this world would say there are some uncertainties. There is no doubt, however, that the responsible response is about practical risk-management. We must do exactly that because, unfortunately, the Labour Government failed to do it. This is a unique opportunity to look at it and I support this motion. I believe it is hugely important. I want to call upon all members of Parliament to support it in a thoughtful, balanced, and careful manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022 data-id=\u00221f3ff89159364690870ef7c41fafe609\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f3ff89159364690870ef7c41fafe609\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E The fact that this Government motion is on the Order Paper at all is a disgrace. It is a deception, it is time wasting, it will cause significant economic damage, it will create business uncertainty, it will damage our reputation internationally, and it will generate an impost on taxpayers. It is a disgrace for all those and many, many other reasons. It is a very, very bad move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EIt is a very bad move for two reasons. The first reason is that it tells me that National did nothing about climate change in detail when in Opposition; it was there long enough. It tells me also that when it forms a Government the National Party is weak. The Prime Minister of this land is a weak man. That is what it tells me: lazy and weak. A good Opposition, instead of spending all its time always opposing, would have thought through what it wanted to do in Government in some detail. It should have said that it wanted to change the current law. It said it when the law went through\u2014we heard it, that is fine; they won, that is fine. So what changes did it want to make: little ones, big ones, many ones, just a few? We do not know. We have not had any detail from National, despite the fact that it has had 9 long years in Opposition to have a look at it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003ENational members have said for years that they wanted an emissions trading scheme. They voted against the version that was put in front of them. They said they did not like bits of it. They said they still like the idea of an emissions trading scheme, and, indeed, the Prime Minister said so again as recently as Monday. But actually we do not know what version they want. They do not even have a discussion paper for this select committee, let alone anything resembling amendments to current law. No, they have not done the work. They have picked up their salaries, they have grizzled, and they have done no more than that. That is not good enough. They have done nothing except oppose that which has come forward, and now the emperor has no clothes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EThey are derelict, as well. They are derelict because earlier this week we got a fine-sounding Speech from the Throne that was all about the economy front and centre, and all about economic growth. Do we remember that? Not any more! That was Monday. Today is Thursday, and today we are debating whether to set up a select committee to start all over. What is meant by starting all over? We have been starting all over for long enough. We started starting all over in 1992 when Rob Storey, who used to sit over there, went across to Rio de Janeiro and signed the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. That was 16 years ago. We started all over in December 1997, 11 years ago this month, when Simon Upton, a National Party Cabinet Minister, went all the way to Kyoto in Japan, along with Jeanette Fitzsimons, if I recall correctly, and signed the Kyoto Protocol. That was 11 years ago. We started all over in 2002 when the Prime Minister of the land at the time, the Rt Hon Helen Clark, and I ratified the Kyoto Protocol in Wellington. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EWhy are we starting again? What is going on here? The starting points have long since gone, and the policy debate that must occur in parallel with the decision to sign the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change or to ratify the Kyoto Protocol has been going on for well over a decade, as well. Simon Upton started it. He asked whether we should have a carbon charge or emissions trading. The very first thought that came back to the then National Government was that we would have a mixture. That was in the late 1990s. The Government of the day said that it did not want a bar of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EUpon the change in Government, our initial approach was to go for a carbon charge as a way to transition towards an emissions trading scheme. That was put into the public arena. The National Party said no to that, and Business New Zealand said no to that, they did not want a carbon charge. The Business Council for Sustainable Development said no to that, and after the 2005 election the majority of the House said no to that. All those people said that they wanted to go directly to an emissions trading scheme, so we began the consultation again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EAn emissions trading scheme was put to a select committee, it went around the traps, it came to this House, and it became part of New Zealand law. At the last minute the National Party said it really liked an emissions trading scheme, but it did not like that emissions trading scheme. It wanted some differences. That is fair enough. The Greens said they would go with this emissions trading scheme but that they would rather have some differences themselves, which of course were different from the National Party\u2019s differences. But that is all fair in negotiating a way forward. Now, even though National\u2019s members went to the public before the election and said they were committed to action on climate change, to an emissions trading scheme, to some amendments to the emissions trading scheme that is already part of New Zealand law, even though they publicly did all that, they caved as soon as they had the election result in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EThat brings me to the bit about weakness, because this National Party secured 58 seats. The ACT Party secured five seats, yet with its five seats the ACT Party ran a rod through the heart of the emissions trading scheme and through this Parliament\u2019s approach to climate change over all these years. I congratulate Rodney Hide. I did not believe that a person with a negotiating coin as limited as his could have achieved as much as he has. The only reason he has been able to achieve as much as he has is because the National Party is weak. The Prime Minister of this land is a weak man. He caved on the spot. He did not say: \u201CRodney, you can have your regulatory review position, you can be Minister for Regulatory Responsibility, but you cannot go near the climate change stuff.\u201D He did not say that; he just said: \u201CTell me what you want. You want a select committee? Fine, we will do that. It does not matter that your wishes, Rodney, contradict what my National Party has been saying all this while, or that they contradict our saying that we were going to make these changes, done and dusted, by September 2009.\u201D Now we have a select committee that does not have to report until 2009. We have ourselves a weak Prime Minister and a lazy National Party in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EYou see, it is going to come home to roost. For example, take a look at this morning\u2019s New Zealand Herald and at what Brian Fallow has to say. In his first paragraph he said: \u201CIt is troubling how wide a gap has emerged between what the new Government is saying and what it is doing, with respect to the select committee review of the emission trading scheme. \u2026 if you look at the terms of reference the select committee is to be given, you get a starkly different impression [from what National campaigned on].\u201D He goes on to quote the Prime Minister of this land on just Monday, and says \u201CIt is the Act Party\u2019s wish list verbatim,\u201D. Here we have the 4 percent economic and environmental vandals of the ACT Party telling the Prime Minister what to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EI say to the Prime Minister that his dog has a very, very big tail. I say to the Prime Minister that he is a weak man, and he should not have given ground on an issue of this consequence that has been developed over this length of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EWe then get the unctuous prattle of people like Dr Hutchison, who said that this policy is being rushed and that it might have some losers. For God\u2019s sake, if we do not change behaviours we will not get on top of the issue of climate change, nor begin to. So we have the ultimate conservative response coming out as a bunch of clich\u00E9s from the National Government, now it has won the election. It has become clear that the Government does not actually give a toss about the most serious problem that has faced this civilisation in my time on the planet. I think this is an outrageous Government motion. I think it is a disgrace, and I feel ashamed to be part of this House. Indeed, I will be seriously voting against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d9307dbd5d8d4a56a3e538839a888f57\u0022 data-id=\u00224dfdc693ec204b6b9c37ccb003ab7ed6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9307dbd5d8d4a56a3e538839a888f57\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dfdc693ec204b6b9c37ccb003ab7ed6\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022 data-id=\u00220fb966d30d0246ef9436b64392c655ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fb966d30d0246ef9436b64392c655ba\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I have listened to the debate this morning, and I have considered the intent. As each member has spoken I have started to build a picture about what is really happening in the House today. It is a very interesting debate, and for all the right reasons Labour will be voting against the establishment of the emissions trading scheme select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons proposed a number of titles for the emissions trading scheme select committee; I agree that we could put many names to this particular committee. I thought of one myself: the \u201CEmissions Trading Scheme (Reward ACT) Select Committee\u201D. If the truth be known, there are climate change deniers in this House; we saw that very clearly in the election campaign. In fact, at a campaign meeting that I attended in Papakura, one person stood in the room with a billboard that said: \u201CGet rid of the emissions trading scheme\u201D. We already know ACT\u2019s position on this issue. The establishment of this select committee is a convoluted effort to placate political ideology, rather than an attempt to consider the serious and important implications of climate change for our environment, our economy, and our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EOne particular maiden speech yesterday put those implications at the forefront of our thinking as members of Parliament. But Rodney Hide got up and said that the select committee is about doing a lot of things; he said that the select committee can think about them and then we can move on. Well, I say to Mr Hide that it is not as simple as that. Indeed, the establishment of this select committee will delay the introduction of the emissions trading scheme, and will risk New Zealand\u2019s reputation as a clean, green country at a time when young New Zealanders all over the country are very hopeful about the type of country they want to live in and continue to live in. They want to be good stewards of our environment in our communities at a very local level. They want to champion the cause of being responsible global citizens who care for our environment, but now they hear the message from the Government that it will establish a select committee and think about a whole lot of other things before it actually gets on with the business. I think we are sending the wrong message to young New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EI have a question. Does the Government believe in climate change or does it think it is a hoax? Before the election National promised to proceed with an emissions trading scheme, and that it would include agriculture\u2014another promise broken. Before the election National\u2019s environmental climate change policy said it would set up and legislate for an emissions reduction target for New Zealand, it would honour New Zealand\u2019s Kyoto Protocol obligations, it would support international efforts to reduce global greenhouse gas emissions, and it would support the emissions trading legislation because it \u201Cbelieves that a well-considered carefully balanced emissions trading scheme (ETS) is the best tool available to efficiently reduce greenhouse gas \u2026\u201D, whilst also pledging to make amendments to the legislation within 9 months of being in office\u20149 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EThe establishment of this select committee could well delay the implementation of the emissions trading scheme. I ask members to look at the terms of reference. Jeanette Fitzsimons made the point very clearly to members of this House that it will take a lot of time to get through those terms of reference. To think that the emissions trading scheme select committee can be advanced in 9 months! I think it is a delay tactic and one can come to only that conclusion on listening to the debate in this House today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EMore important, when Hone Harawira spoke\u2014and he raised a number of important issues\u2014he proposed an addition to the terms of reference. Anyone who has served any length of time in this House would know that the decisions of the select committee can be overruled by this House. So I say to Mr Harawira\u2014and I know he knows this\u2014that although he might discuss and propose additions to the terms of reference at the select committee, he could easily table those additions in the House, as Gerry Brownlee did this morning, so that the whole House can vote on the matter. But I suspect he does not have support from his coalition partner, National. He will raise the issue in the select committee and not put it to a vote, because he already knows that he does not have support from his National coalition partner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EI know clearly that National has seated Tau Henare behind him in the Chamber to be a minder and to ensure that the process the M\u0101ori Party follows is stewarded very clearly along the lines of what National is really trying to achieve. That is fine, but when people raise the issue of being respectful in the House, I say that respect relies on a number of things. Firstly, in response to Tau, I ask Hone to say what he means, to stick to it, and to not say different things to different people in different forums. He knows that in marae protocol that is very clear. Although he has the opportunity right now to table that amendment to the terms of reference so that the whole House can vote on it\u2014he already has the numbers, with his partners ACT and National, which could see it pass\u2014he would prefer to raise the issue at the select committee without asserting the real influence that he has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EAt least with the honourable member for Te Tai Tokerau, Hone Harawira, people know that what he does say he says consistently everywhere. People know what he thinks. That deserves respect. I think that, when we consider where the real weight of his mandate lies, he has the influence and the leadership to pull his coalition partners together on issues his party believes are really important and to get them to move on them. I ask him to table his amendment in the House and to get his partners to support him. It will pass by a majority\u2014I have no doubt about that, if he has support for what he is saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EThe establishment of the emissions trading scheme select committee is a matter we should all be concerned about. Forestry owners have invested heavily on the basis of the introduction of this scheme. I am informed that Peter Berg of the Forest Owners Association indicated on Morning Report that one particular deal was worth more than $100 million on the basis of the proposed emissions trading scheme. Forestry owners would be very concerned that ACT, National, and the M\u0101ori Party have introduced a measure that potentially could delay the introduction of the emissions trading scheme. They should have done what they told everybody well before the election they would do: amend the scheme slightly but keep it on track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EI pick up on the point the honourable Paul Hutchison raised when he said that we need people to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022309b95d28fdd472fab86e1e0ff2e37a9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Honourable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225025fcdae3a84d71a6ecff19fcc8950d\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe he is yet to be honourable; maybe I heard something that I should not have repeated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EPaul Hutchison raised a point with regard to taking a considered approach to this issue. I know that the issues he raised with regard to BHP Steel are very real in our particular region. But let us not delay the emissions trading scheme because of those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EI am sure another question will come up at some point. What consultation occurred between the Government and sector industries on the potential impact of delaying the introduction of the emissions trading scheme as a result of setting up this select committee? I suspect that the answer is none. There was a good degree of discussion about, and working through of, the emissions trading scheme with M\u0101ori representatives. The M\u0101ori reference group, in particular, sought heavily to put before David Parker the issues of the M\u0101ori community. So when challenged on whether it delivers to M\u0101ori, I say that I am sure ample advice would have come from the people who were involved in that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EI end on the reputational issue of flip-flops on various aspects of climate change that National has put before New Zealanders. We need to ensure that our international profile builds on clear expectations that we hold at the core of our national identity. I, for one, love Aotearoa New Zealand and the value we place on our national heritage and the value we attribute to our cultural heritage, but we need to walk the talk. Any indication of our pulling away from an emissions trading scheme at a time when inspirational leadership from Barack Obama aligns with Labour\u2019s similar approach means that National is going in the reverse direction. Mr Key actually flip-flopped on this issue, and we should be concerned about it. In May 2005 he said on the subject of Kyoto and climate change that it was \u201Ca complete \u2026 hoax.\u201D In November 2006 he said: \u201CI firmly believe in climate change and always have.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EIf Mr Key needed a reminder that the rest of the world has accepted the singular importance of climate change, he got it on his first international visit to the UK in November this year, when he found himself being addressed by Gordon Brown on the issue of travel tax. We know that the introduction of a travel tax would hurt our tourism industry, but in the first test of his leadership as a Prime Minister who walks the talk on promoting a great nation and its clean, green image, what did he do? He grinned and giggled like a newbie. What should he have done? He should have been clear and decisive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022 data-id=\u0022738ef424b4334332a56569b23e61aade\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022738ef424b4334332a56569b23e61aade\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to oppose the motion put by the Hon Gerry Brownlee that a special select committee to review the emissions trading scheme and related matters be established. The Green Party may have been disposed to accept the establishment of a special committee had it been established on the basis of the more narrow terms of reference originally envisaged by the Prime Minister, but we are not so disposed to accept the much more general terms that have been proposed by Mr Hide, which are essentially based on the campaign slogan put across by that party to the effect that climate change is essentially a question of belief. That premise, on which that political party campaigned, is an extreme form\u2014I put it to members\u2014of political irresponsibility. When I look at the terms of reference proposed for the committee\u2014and there are around 10 or so\u2014I ask myself what I suggest all members of this House ask themselves: are each or any of these terms of reference essential for the clarification of the issue of climate change, for the elucidation of the matter for the public, and for the efficient governance of this House? My answer in each case is no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EThe first term is to \u201Chear views from trade and diplomatic experts on the international relations aspect of this issue;\u201D. I can personally vouch for the fact that that has been under way in this country, by Governments, for the past 25 years. The second term states: \u201Cconsider the prospects for an international agreement on climate change post Kyoto 1, and the form such an agreement might take;\u201D. That has been explored and discussed by professionals and political leaders around the world for at least the past 5 years. The third term states: \u201Crequire a high-quality, quantified regulatory impact analysis to be produced to identify the net benefits or costs to New Zealand of any policy action, including international relations and commercial benefits and costs;\u201D. That is, essentially, a national impact analysis, which the various concerned ministries have undertaken\u2014and put memoranda to Ministers for discussion and judgment\u2014for the last decade, I should say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003ESome of these terms have some passing merit, but not when they deliberately seek to delay progress by this country, by this Government, on meeting our international obligations under Kyoto. The question of what is the most appropriate policy response to the challenge of climate change is a legitimate issue. Seeking to conflate that with the scientific question of the phenomenon of climate change, its anthropogenic causes, is not. I have noted, in the last few days, what I take to be a deliberate attempt to conflate the two. The House is not well served by that approach. If we wish to take a similar approach, to distract the attention of this House, we could engage in considerable innovation and consider the relationship between creationism and evolution; or whether the natural elemental components of the lunar body are rock or hard cheese\u2014essentially we would be between them! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003EI recall the facts that climate change was first mooted as a possible phenomenon in the course of the 1970s; that it was brought before national legislators, particularly the US Congress, in 1982; that a responsible international commission, the Brundtland Commission, was established in 1984 and reported back in 1987, endorsing the fact that climate change was a clear phenomenon; that the international community, solemnly acting on the recommendations of the Brundtland Commission, met in 1992\u201416 years ago\u2014and adopted a framework convention that acknowledged the existence of climate change and the need to combat it; that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change worked, prior to 1992, in support of that judgment; and that it has produced four assessment reports, the most recent being within the last year, each one acknowledging the existence of climate change and sounding an increasing note of alarm about its implications. All of this reflects the fallible but collective and informed judgment of the international community, based on the advice of the scientific component and reflecting the judgment of the political component of the whole international community. New Zealand has reflected that and is participating in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224c05fd36202a437c964dbcfbb884af34\u0022\u003ESo where do we stand today? We have a proposal from a political party that attracted less than 4 percent of the vote that we put the brakes on it and go back to reinvent the wheel. The Prime Minister took the better part of 20 of those 25 years to be convinced that climate change was a real phenomenon. He expressed his suspicions\u2014which, I suppose, is putting a gloss on it\u2014as recently as 2005. But he now heads a Government that acknowledges the existence of climate change. One of its senior Ministers is currently negotiating the implications of the next protocol. Meanwhile, this House is being invited to expend public money, which is contrary to the campaign commitments of the party proposing this, to re-educate, or perhaps educate, anything between one to five of its members on the basics\u2014101\u2014of climate change. I conclude by simply saying that the Green Party opposes the motion not for the sake of opposition alone but to guide this new Government in the right direction and in the same manner of efficiency that its predecessor displayed. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8aa3f1b0b554a9997e973b6f7dd3276\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8aa3f1b0b554a9997e973b6f7dd3276\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to stand to take a call in this debate and say that Labour will be opposing the motion. I want to go a little step further than my colleague the Hon Pete Hodgson, who said that the motion was an outrage. I say that it is an embarrassment for our country internationally that we are taking this huge backward step at a time when the rest of the world is moving forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThere is no need to move this motion under urgency. There is no need to stop the current legislation in its tracks. The only urgency we should be having is over the impact of climate change on our planet. We need only look down the east coast of both islands to see changes and to see the irrevocable damage that climate change can do. We need only look in our backyard of the Pacific to see that in countries that we, as a member of the Pacific community, have a responsibility to help, island homes are disappearing. While those island homes are disappearing, the National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government says: \u201CHang on! We\u2019re not sure anything is actually happening. Why don\u2019t we sit down and do a bit of navel gazing.\u201D In the meantime climate change marches on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI have to say I am surprised that they got to Dr Paul Hutchison. He stood up and said straight-faced that the science on this matter was not settled, simply because not every single scientist in the world agrees that human activity has caused climate change. Well, we could probably go back 20, 30, or 40 years and find many scientific studies that said thalidomide was absolutely no problem for women who were pregnant. As Dr Hutchison knows, one needs to look at who is commissioning a lot of the work and a lot of the studies that are being done. One needs to take that into consideration. A lot of money is to be made out there discrediting climate change right now. If the members of this select committee are not aware of that, if Dr Paul Hutchison, who is a member of this committee, is telling me that it is not something he is aware of, then I am afraid that the work of this committee will not be particularly productive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI say that advisedly, because although I completely disagree that a group of politicians here in New Zealand will somehow be able to overturn the work of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, I do believe that all the members on this committee are honourable members, and I do believe that they intend to work hard. Although I think we disagree on whether the terms of reference are appropriate, and although I think we disagree on what needs to be done, I am sure that all members will work hard to improve the current legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EHowever, during the election campaign we were told by the National Party that it had a plan, that it knew what changes needed to be made, and that it knew what it was going to do. It gave us its six-point plan, but as we come past the election we realise that National had no idea. Where are the amendments to the current legislation that National talked about before the election campaign? The members of this committee, the members of the House, the media, and New Zealand need to see them. Why is the committee not discussing the specific changes to the emissions trading scheme that the current Government\u2014which is perfectly within its rights to review the scheme\u2014wants? Labour members have no problem with a select committee looking at the emissions trading scheme, asking whether we got it right, and saying what needs to be changed. But that is not what these terms of reference do. These terms of reference bog down this Parliament in a select committee process that I am absolutely sure is intended to take us past the next election, while we do nothing on climate change. It is a delay tactic, and that is absolutely all it is. This House should be ashamed that this motion has come before us at all, let alone under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EAs I have said, the fact that we are in urgency is ironic, given that the only urgency is for our agricultural sector, to ensure that farmers are still able to farm in the future; for future generations of New Zealanders; and for our Pacific neighbours. Apparently, what the National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government thinks is urgent is that we stop this debate in its tracks, we stop the legislation in its tracks, and we go backwards while the rest of the world is going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EMr Rodney Hide gave an interesting contribution. He talked about what a great Government this is and what a great Prime Minister John Key is, because it was easy for him to negotiate with him. Of course it was. That was what John Key wanted to do all along. He wanted ACT to be there, demanding that the emissions trading scheme be slowed down and stopped, because that is what he wants to happen. We had all the nice, fancy words in the campaign. He went from saying in 2005 that he was suspicious of climate change and that the Kyoto Protocol was a hoax, to telling us, once he became the Leader of the Opposition, that he had always believed in climate change. The only thing we can draw from Mr Hide\u2019s admission that it was easy to get this concession out of the National Government is that it was what Mr Key wanted to do all along. And he got what he wanted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe other thing Mr Hide made clear is that a potential outcome of this committee will be our withdrawal from the Kyoto Protocol. He said that. He said that we may find that we do not want to be in it. I will be interested to hear what Dr Paul Hutchison thinks about that. He can sit there and mouth my name to me quietly, but that is what Mr Hide said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279684e243b19473ca2075e6a58ae95d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbc5ebaa4f2e40a0b9818491dfadc47a\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Very mischievous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c177328b6ddf4ea6b6b932c5aa8104c1\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, very misleading? Well, Mr Rodney Hide clearly articulated that one of the outcomes of this select committee might be that we do not feel the need to be in the Kyoto Protocol. Is that not interesting? That is a dangerous, dangerous position for us to be taking, for many, many reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWe do not need to be rushing this measure through in urgency. We have all of next year before any other sector comes into the emissions trading scheme. We could keep the current legislation in place, and clearly signal what changes might happen and what shape they might take\u2014they do not need to be specific. We could give some security to our foresters and to those who are already engaging in carbon trading. We could let them feel that the investments they have already made in their businesses are secure, without completely undermining everything they have done. Jobs and investment are going offshore to other countries, and it does not need to happen; $400 million worth of forestry investment has gone, and some of it will never come back, even if the outcome of the committee\u2019s consideration is a decision that the status quo should prevail. This motion comes on the back of the axing of the research and development tax credit this morning, which will see even more jobs and innovation go overseas. One has to wonder what this Government is trying to do to this country. Is it trying to get our emissions down by stifling economic growth to such a level that our emissions reduce because of it? The only thing I can take out of this is that that is its overall plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThis move has huge implications for trade\u2014huge implications. We rely on our clean, green image for tourism, for trade, and for many things. Does anyone think it is a coincidence that right after National does a huge environmental flip-flop, a complete backtracking, we see an impost being put on us in the United Kingdom? Does anyone think that was a coincidence of timing? This committee is opening us up to huge criticism. We have to be far purer on these issues than most other countries, because of where we are and because of who we are. This kind of backtracking is damaging to trade and damaging to our businesses, at the very time when we need to be extra careful because of the global financial crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWe should not be surprised. National in Opposition voted against every single environmental issue that came before this House. It always managed to find an excuse. But this motion is an international embarrassment. It is embarrassing for our country, because this select committee will review the science of climate change; the Government may have changed the words, but it will do that. Rodney Hide acknowledged that by nodding when we put it to him. He got everything he wanted. This committee will review whether climate change is actually happening. New Zealand will be seen as a country that is in denial on this issue, and that will be to the detriment of our economy at a time when our climate cannot afford it, at a time when our economy cannot afford it, and at a time when our businesses cannot afford it. This motion is an absolute outrage, and Labour will be opposing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022 data-id=\u002235e8490f3ca2403e9aa1ac241ed92112\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235e8490f3ca2403e9aa1ac241ed92112\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002208ce381d01ea41b2878f9627c131a437\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 7; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f353483e811f4fd7afbf9ee1c2bfd3df\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion to establish a special select committee be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7cfad7cb2434587ba32b12c27d45cb1\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eefd54460b2f4018b7efd89275a464ba\u0022\u003EFinancial Situation\u2014Stability Measures\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u0022db5c7c24b0234cafab6f29effb6e2a84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db5c7c24b0234cafab6f29effb6e2a84\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to make a ministerial statement under Standing Order 347. I want to make a statement to the House at the earliest possible time about the serious international financial situation that has developed over recent months, the impact that situation has had on New Zealand, and the measures that have been taken to address the situation since the House last met before the election. Had Parliament been sitting, I am sure the previous Minister of Finance, Dr Cullen, would have informed Parliament of these events at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003ESince the House last met on 26 September, the world\u2019s financial markets have experienced considerable disruption. In particular, confidence in the global financial system has deteriorated markedly, and credit markets have become dysfunctional. That affects New Zealand banks, which are net borrowers from those markets. Linked to that, global sharemarkets have fallen sharply and economic conditions in many countries around the world have deteriorated rapidly. The outlook remains difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EAs members will realise, Governments and financial authorities around the world have taken an unprecedented range of steps to protect financial systems and to minimise, to the extent that is possible, the adverse economic consequences that are likely to flow from the financial markets. Those measures include easing monetary and fiscal policy, supporting banks and financial institutions, and enhancing global cooperation on economic and financial issues. Of direct relevance to New Zealand, Governments in a wide range of countries, including Australia, have moved to guarantee deposits in financial institutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EI would like today to inform members of two particular steps that the New Zealand Government has recently taken. The first step is retail deposit guarantees. As the House had adjourned on 26 September and Parliament had been dissolved on 3 October, before the election it was necessary to use existing statutory powers to take timely action. Accordingly, the power in the Public Finance Act 1989 for the Minister of Finance to give guarantees was invoked and was delegated to the Secretary to the Treasury. Under that delegation, the secretary may issue Crown guarantees for the retail deposits in banks and other financial institutions that meet certain criteria when that appears necessary or expedient in the public interest. I can inform the House that retail deposits in all the major banks and many other institutions are now covered by a Crown guarantee. Full details of the guarantee scheme, including the entities it covers, are on Treasury\u2019s website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EIn order to protect taxpayers, the guarantees are limited in time and extent. I am advised that the amount of deposits covered by the retail guarantee, as at 30 November 2008, is approximately $125 billion, and the Crown\u2019s contingent liability is therefore that amount. The amount will increase if more retail deposits fall within the scheme. It is an extremely remote possibility that anything approaching the full amount would be required to meet the Crown\u2019s obligations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe second step is wholesale funding guarantees. New Zealand banks depend heavily on foreign funding, and the wholesale banking markets have been largely closed in recent months. Unless ready access to those markets can be re-established, it is likely that pressures on the availability of credit in New Zealand and on the exchange rate could intensify next year. The previous Minister of Finance announced that the Crown will guarantee, using the same statutory power, specific wholesale financial instruments issued by major financial institutions if they meet the specified criteria. Acting under delegated authority, the Secretary to the Treasury must be satisfied that it appears necessary or expedient in the public interest to proceed with the wholesale funding guarantee. Officials are working actively with banks to facilitate use of the guarantee facility. To date no wholesale deposits have been guaranteed. Advice from Treasury is that the wholesale scheme could involve guarantees of up to $150 billion. The scheme is offered on an issue by issue basis, so it would approach that amount only if the scheme continues to be offered for several years. The Government will continue to manage the scheme carefully on behalf of taxpayers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EIn addition to those steps taken by the Minister of Finance, the Reserve Bank has taken steps to reduce the official cash rate and focus on its prudential monitoring of banks and non-bank deposit takers. The bank has reduced its rate\u2014most recently, a 1.5 percent reduction to 5 percent on Thursday, 4 December. As well, the Reserve Bank has reiterated its confidence that the country\u2019s banks continue to be solvent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EI am sure that the measures taken to date will go a long way to maintain confidence in New Zealand\u2019s financial markets and mitigate the effect that international trends will have on the economy over the next year. These financial events have unfolded rapidly and may continue to do so. We will consider any further response, should that be necessary in the interests of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the role played by the previous Minister of Finance. Given that these issues arose in probably the most politically difficult circumstances of an election campaign, all matters were dealt with, from our point of view as the then Opposition, in a professional, open, and transparent way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022 data-id=\u0022d29e8c444f5b4640aec7eccf9fac5c19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d29e8c444f5b4640aec7eccf9fac5c19\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: As this is the first ministerial statement in the forty-ninth Parliament, it may be helpful to new members if I explain the process. The specified leaders of parties with six or more members have 5 minutes to respond to the statement, and the Minister who makes the statement has 2 minutes in reply if he so desires.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u00228e7050ee19f941dbb47535a4cccae9e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e7050ee19f941dbb47535a4cccae9e1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Opposition supports the measures outlined in the statement made by the Minister of Finance to the House today and acknowledges with gratitude his comments regarding the role of the outgoing Minister of Finance. New Zealand\u2019s banking and financial system is fundamentally sound. New Zealand\u2019s economy is well placed to respond to international turbulence, and the Government\u2019s balance sheet is sufficiently robust to underpin the guarantees outlined by the Minister. It is important for New Zealanders, therefore, to feel safe and secure in respect of their savings. Accordingly, Labour supports the retail deposit guarantees issued under delegation by the Secretary to the Treasury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ELabour also notes that appropriate limitations are required to protect taxpayers from inappropriate risk-shifting and to ensure that guarantees are of appropriately limited duration. Labour also supports, albeit with some reluctance, the need for wholesale banking guarantees to ensure that New Zealand\u2019s financial institutions have access to international credit flows on secure and equitable terms. With most developed country Governments offering such guarantees, New Zealand must also adopt this action. The need for access to liquidity also underlines the ongoing importance of domestic savings vehicles, principally KiwiSaver, as well as the importance of the ongoing prudential role of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ELabour believes, however, that better international coordination is required on how to exit these levels of exposure by sovereign Governments to risk. This will require a thorough review of international economic and financial cooperation over time. In our view, further consideration is also required, in light of these guarantees, of the stubborn residual differentials between domestic and, for example, Australian interest rates. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022 data-id=\u002246523951b7784dd3a45bc69413045cd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246523951b7784dd3a45bc69413045cd2\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Minister for his report to the House. The guarantee schemes have been well signalled in the media and there were no surprises in the Minister\u2019s statement this morning, but it is appropriate, nevertheless, that it be brought to the House at the first opportunity, and I thank him for doing that. I have a few questions that I would find it very helpful if the Minister could enlighten us on, if he intends to take his 2-minute reply at the end of this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EIf we are taking a $275 billion contingent liability on New Zealand\u2019s Crown balance sheet\u2014and I accept that that is a worst-case number\u2014then what are we asking for in return? This measure removes all risk for banks and depositors, underwriting it by the taxpayer. How will that change risk-taking behaviour by the banks and by depositors? How will we prevent the banks from taking huge risks at our expense? New Zealand\u2019s banks are largely owned in Australia, and they repatriate their profits to their Australian owners. To the extent that this measure increases the profitability of the New Zealand banks, what limits will the Minister place on the repatriation of those profits, or will New Zealand taxpayers be basically sending money out of the country to the Australian owners of our banks? Will any action be taken to limit the grotesque salary packages that the chief executives of those banks are still taking, now that they are in a situation where they really are not taking any risk? What form will the Reserve Bank\u2019s increased prudential oversight take, and what do we anticipate will be the results of that? What role will New Zealand play in the international discussions about better international oversight of the financial markets, in order to prevent this situation from happening again? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EFinally, given that we are in urgency and we are considering matters that the Government thinks are very urgent, I am wondering where the package is that the Government announced before the election to help out people who lose their jobs and cannot meet their mortgage payments. That was an election promise. Are we to wait until February before legislation is introduced to help them, or is something planned for next week? Is that not actually one of the more urgent things that the House should be considering at the moment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee8698eda90a448baebb951557f2c23b\u0022\u003EThank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and I look forward to hearing any answers that the Minister may give us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u002230b470bd94344baeb27254c789ba54e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230b470bd94344baeb27254c789ba54e7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I will be able to answer the question about the redundancy assistance package separately. The member raised a number of issues, as did the spokesperson for the Labour Party. Probably the simplest answer to their question of what the Government gets in return for the guarantee is the price that the banks are being required to pay for it. It may well be useful for us to get the officials to give the parties a fuller briefing on just how that price works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EBut the member raises a number of other very perceptive and difficult questions about the impact the guarantee will have on risk and behaviour in the banking sector, and I have to say I share with the former Minister of Finance his deep reluctance about going into this measure, because it is hard to make it work well, and even harder to get out from under it in the end. So I make that offer about the briefing, and we can discuss that further. I make one other undertaking, in the spirit of the process started by the former Minister of Finance: where matters of a serious nature that are related to financial stability come to our attention, we will endeavour to keep contact with and brief other parties in the same way as Dr Cullen did before the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6cb8330c3104d0688b69765ae2adfdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6cb8330c3104d0688b69765ae2adfdb\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take this opportunity to place on record my appreciation of Mr English\u2019s approach to this issue during the election campaign. It was a very difficult issue at a very specific and difficult time, and it could easily have run off the rails. I would also say that if anybody ever asks me, I might at some stage reveal more fully some of the other fraught circumstances that surrounded the entering into of the guarantee schemes, but this is not the time for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ee5f2c1914a4f3aae3a2d71547fbf5a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: In that respect, you are correct: it is not the time for that. I understand that it is the intention of the Government to introduce a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022 data-id=\u00222b5b3e164b504ed5a9c7f7f20609f5b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b5b3e164b504ed5a9c7f7f20609f5b1\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I understood I had an opportunity to respond to the ministerial statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5993c5cddbc472bbc6195a7563bcffc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, at the outset I explained the process associated with a ministerial statement, which is that the leaders of parties with more than six members have an opportunity to respond to it. Thank you, Dr Sharples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220468597edd12427a86f5fe6425df9ee9\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f3642b1ed13b43bfaff84ff82b7d8248\u0022\u003EEmissions Trading Scheme Select Committee\u2014Appointments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a077574410714aadaf7b871c8d943b0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022183f6b84763947d7b3e7599d598223ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a077574410714aadaf7b871c8d943b0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022183f6b84763947d7b3e7599d598223ec\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Did anyone move a motion regarding the membership of the special select committee to review the emissions trading scheme? It has not happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9e36adae6bc4bdb8867dd994b0b750e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was included in the Government motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef01646ba9a54061a7033d106000948a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: It was a single motion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a077574410714aadaf7b871c8d943b0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d57a1535b4f4a41b5fc0ef270ccbc59\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: We thought there were to be two motions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e32d87d3d7e542058d18ba223367a681\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: We were told there were to be two motions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a077574410714aadaf7b871c8d943b0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd6ca5a2a8b544ab9bc31f1076d4bcd4\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: We were told there were to be two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bfa2c9c264546e88d1937930364a814\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I was not told that there were to be two motions. Would the Clerk advise. The Clerk has advised me that it was a single motion. The membership of the committee was clearly set out in the Government motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228a00b5456f394f0b963ebe854dfd3849\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a15d6496699744cd8fa6fc3ef1a6a13b\u0022\u003EFinancial Situation\u2014Stability Measures\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000271\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6fd9261eeb74b43923ed1daafa75b5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6fd9261eeb74b43923ed1daafa75b5d\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the House to respond to the ministerial statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d69e7401f7f4c8f9d7c0a3d36ab27a9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220ce7aa57d344d0db2a5554a3ef591a2\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1f5c13883b947e3b8d79fe1dcc8f005\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba6a1eb8159142f9aa4fdb5db7f166be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba6a1eb8159142f9aa4fdb5db7f166be\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a first time. This bill amends the Employment Relations Act 2000 to implement trial employment periods for new employees of small and medium-sized businesses\u2014those employing fewer than 20 employees\u2014and to support Government policy on KiwiSaver, which is being enacted through amendments to the KiwiSaver Act 2006 by repealing those provisions of the Employment Relations Act that deal with KiwiSaver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EWe are committed to getting New Zealanders into jobs and providing the right encouragement to employers to employ them. This is important in the current challenging economic times. Given the pressures that employers and employees at small and medium sized businesses are under, the Government believes that it is important that the measures contained in this bill are acted on quickly. This bill will increase the willingness of employers to take on new staff. Greater flexibility for employers will provide much-needed assistance. The Government\u2019s policies on both KiwiSaver and the 90-day trial periods were well signalled prior to the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EFirstly, the Government is making changes to the KiwiSaver scheme through the omnibus tax bill. One of these changes will require employer contributions to KiwiSaver to be on top of an employee\u2019s existing pay when the employee joins a KiwiSaver scheme. This change will safeguard the ability of employers and employees to negotiate in good faith changes to this arrangement. There will, therefore, no longer be a need for similar KiwiSaver discrimination provisions contained in the Employment Relations Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003ESecondly, this bill provides for trial periods of up to 90 days for new employees who want to be given a go, and who want the opportunity to get their feet in the employment door, to back themselves to say \u201CGive me a go and I will prove how good I am.\u201D There are no provisions for trial periods in our existing employment legislation. In fact, we are one of the few countries internationally that do not have a trial period for employees. This bill will enable employees in small to medium sized enterprises\u2014those with fewer than 20 employees\u2014to determine a prospective employee\u2019s suitability for permanent employment without the risk of legal proceedings for unjustified dismissal in the event that the employment relationship does not work out. It will encourage small businesses to give a new employee a go and to take on new employees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EAccordingly, under this bill a new employee who agrees to a trial period of up to 90 days will be unable to raise a personal grievance for reasons of unjustified dismissal. The introduction of the proposed 90-day trial period will encourage more small and medium sized businesses\u2014which can find it difficult to absorb costs associated with giving new employees a go\u2014to take on new employees. This will benefit many people at the margins of the labour market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThis bill is not about taking away rights; it is about giving opportunities. It has safety mechanisms to ensure that it is fair and balanced and is win-win for both employee and employer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe bill will amend the Employment Relations Act so that an employer with fewer than 20 employees may agree in good faith with a new employee to a trial period of up to 90 calendar days as part of a written employment agreement signed by both parties at the beginning of the employment relationship. The trial period will be entered into only by agreement. No one is being forced into a trial period. No existing employees can be put on to a trial period; it is an option that will be available to employees wanting to be given an opportunity to work in small and medium sized businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThirdly, it is very specific in that it relates only to the ability to take a personal grievance for unjustified dismissal in the first 90 days of an agreed trial period. Other rights are specifically retained so that employees still have the same protections under the Act for unjustifiable action by the employer, whether or not they have agreed to a trial period: the same protections against discrimination, and the same protections against sexual and racial harassment and duress. These protections still remain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe bill preserves the right of an employee to raise a personal grievance under the discrimination provisions of the Employment Relations Act. The bill also ensures that an employer and an employee may agree to a trial period only once. So if the employment relationship ends, and the employee is subsequently re-employed, the option of a trial period will not be available. That means that the trial period cannot be used as, for example, an 89-day rollover. In other words, the employer, under this bill, can employ an employee with a trial period only if that employee has not previously been employed by that employer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe bill also specifically ensures that an employee whose employment agreement contains a trial provision is, in all other respects, including access to mediation and including being subject to good-faith provisions, to be treated no differently from an employee whose employment agreement contains no trial provision or contains a trial provision that has ceased to have effect. Mediation will be available; good-faith provisions will continue to apply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EFinally, we have stated that beneficiaries who agree to a trial period, and who find that the trial just does not work out for them, may then be able to return to the benefit without having to wait the stand-down period. That will give beneficiaries the confidence to step on to that employment ladder, knowing that if it does not work out through no fault of their own, they can fall back on the safety net of the benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThis bill responds to the needs of employers in uncertain times, whilst safeguarding the basic rights of employees. It is in step with international employment law, and it is a simple and common-sense response to the needs of New Zealanders. The Small Business Advisory Group report in 2003-04 has as its first and foremost recommendation a trial period for new employees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThis bill has already been extensively debated, and it was consulted on a couple of years ago, when there were 618 submissions to Dr Mapp\u2019s member\u2019s bill. This bill before the House addresses the concerns expressed during that consultation. The bill will give businesses the confidence to take on new staff, and it will give new employees the opportunities to get on the employment ladder. It will provide opportunities for those who might suffer disadvantage in the labour market\u2014for example, employees who are new to the workforce or returning to the workforce after some time away, or specific groups at risk of negative employment outcomes. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022983ee78f23cb49c6ae2c094d2a9a454f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022983ee78f23cb49c6ae2c094d2a9a454f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E That is the first speech from the new Minister of Labour, a former lawyer for the Exclusive Brethren and now the list member for the Exclusive Brethren. And it is a shameful piece of legislation she is bringing in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dea7f23d64ad445aba62d8ce283fc2b9\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask the new Opposition spokesperson for labour to withdraw and apologise. I take offence at the statement as to whom my religious beliefs relate to, and I take offence at the breaching of confidentiality of professional privilege regarding whom lawyers in their professional duties act for and whom they do not. I ask the member to withdraw, apologise, and not make those misrepresentations to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f91ddbc26b1b4ffaa6dbc2ddd305f4a2\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has taken offence under Standing Order 116. Would the member like to withdraw those comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f513cbbb227f4a188ee2b999179f78c9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, no; I would not like to. Speaking to the point of order, I say that the fact that someone takes offence does not automatically mean that when someone has made a factual comment\u2014it is not a matter of opinion; it is a matter of fact\u2014that comment has to be withdrawn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b53c3504e034e81b4c909425c1cb74f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has taken offence, and has asked that you withdraw and apologise. I ask you to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c687a6b182f0448cadb2b97eacf0c5a8\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I can understand the Minister of Labour being very embarrassed by her past, and by the way it is creeping into the way she is applying her views already. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThis bill is absolutely unnecessary. New Zealand has probation periods. We have had probation periods in New Zealand for years and years. People use them and they work well. But this bill takes away from the people who are on probation the rights and privileges they have. This bill is not about setting up trials; it is about taking away from the people who are on trial any rights they themselves have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe Minister very generously says that they can go to mediation. They can go to mediation but not have any rights in that situation, or in any consequential court action. [Interruption] The Minister says it is a privilege to go to mediation. To go to mediation and to be guaranteed to fail is something that is unbelievable in a modern democracy. That Minister forgets that New Zealand is fourth in the OECD reports for being the easiest country in which to employ and sack people. It is fourth in the OECD. We are already a very flexible country compared with the vast majority of our competitors. I say to that Minister that maybe we should be focusing a bit more on what people do at work\u2014on getting them better trained, on lifting their skills\u2014and on having capital investment, rather than sacking people in the way she wants to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThis bill will not promote labour market flexibility. In my view, it will do the opposite. What will obviously happen is what happened with the Employment Contracts Act. Everyone said that that was about good faith and having a choice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022865c5d12ece642e2a9633d08e868c5d5\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, yeah!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6bbf893a552499db5f13eb6c40e7617\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yeah, yeah!\u2014but people had the choice stuck in front of them: \u201CSign this or no job.\u201D But if someone were a highly skilled worker, with management experience, whom a small business really wanted and needed, would that worker take the risk to go to that small business? Would that worker leave a good job\u2014leave a high-paying job\u2014in order to shift to a place where, for the economy, it could be better for that worker to shift? Having flexibility in small business is a good thing, but this bill will mean that a lot of people\u2014both people from within New Zealand and people who are contemplating coming to live in New Zealand\u2014will say \u201CNo thanks! We\u2019ll stay where we are.\u201D So if we want a modern, flexible, dynamic economy, this is the sort of bill that will work absolutely against that. [Interruption] The member says that people will have to agree with it. The member was one of the main promoters and practitioners in the area of the Employment Contracts Act, and she knows what happened under that Act. People got a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D approach to employment. It was not negotiation. [Interruption] Oh, the member says they had the choice. He is right. People did have the choice. People had the choice to have a job or not have a job. And that will be the arrangement, especially for vulnerable people, in this particular area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI have a question for the Minister to answer, across the House if she likes: is she backing Anne Tolley\u2019s guarantee that teachers will not be affected by this legislation? I have looked, I have searched, through the bill, looking for the teachers\u2019 exemption that was absolutely promised on video\u2014on video\u2014by Anne Tolley. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dee7d0efbf414446974d8b76a0542999\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s a front-bencher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd0e916d60984965a778c9f1b539bb99\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Anne Tolley is a much more senior Minister than this Minister of Labour, Kate Wilkinson. I want to know whether she has taken into account the promises made by Anne Tolley, and, if there was an error, whether she will support my amendment to exclude teachers when we go to the Committee stage. I want to reinforce Anne Tolley. It is a terrible bill; it is a shocking bill, but I know\u2014as members are aware\u2014quite a lot about smaller schools. The former Prime Minister is looking at me with a certain look at the moment. But what I know is that they employ fewer than 20 people and they are often the subject of fairly intense local relationships and descent. They are not always happy situations, and teachers could shift to a small school\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210156522382b4c87b83d28da613230d9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: 3 months!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be6dea646dea46e5af04e014097d54f0\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for less than 3 months; the provision can be triggered much earlier than 90 days, of course\u2014get the sack, and not have a job. It is unlikely to happen. So I agree with Anne Tolley\u2019s suggestion, but I want to know from the current Minister whether or not she will support that amendment. I cannot hear her\u2014no, there is not a murmur, not a whisper, not a word from the Minister opposite. I can see that she is nodding her head.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f95a779593664a67996adee963d20d9c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: She shook her head.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cd5bea1fca34ba7bf12001899c8c362\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is hard to tell. She will not support the amendment, but it will be interesting to see how Anne Tolley votes on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EIncluded in this bill is another shameful part of the KiwiSaver changes. The member is right. She has got her timing slightly wrong. I think the legislation she refers to as coming into the House has not only come into the House but been passed. That is just a matter of detail as far as that member is concerned. [Interruption] I do not think that Gerry could have written that\u2014it is even worse. But included in this bill is the removal of the provision that prevents employers from taking from employees\u2019 salaries the KiwiSaver payment. But does the change that the National Party has promoted mean that they can do that permanently, when there are wage rises, or when there are changes in circumstances? No, it does not. It applies only on initial employment, and it does not apply afterwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI want to say a quick word about process. The Minister was asked about 2 weeks ago whether this was going to be part of the 100-day programme, and she said no. Kate Wilkinson said that this was not going to be part of the 100 days. She was asked last week whether it would be in the urgency motion. She said: \u201CI do not know.\u201D It is absolutely outrageous and unnecessary for this bill to go through under urgency. It is something where lots of people have views. It is not the same as the Mapp bill as that was introduced to the House. There are a lot of people who would like their views on this bill to be heard. It is fair to say that the National Party policy was clear; it was in that microdot, somewhere on the back. I managed to get a microscope to see it. So, to be fair, it was signalled by the National Party. But when we made our changes when we came into Government last time, we certainly had select committee hearings, and, to be fair, when the National Party came in in 1990, it certainly had select committee hearings for its major industrial relations hearings. This National Government is not doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI ask why we are doing this. We are attacking the most vulnerable workers in New Zealand. We are stopping people from changing jobs in the way that they should, and we are putting in legislation that is absolutely unnecessary because it is in the current law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d035c6ef591b47cda6f4a62bed48b8c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d035c6ef591b47cda6f4a62bed48b8c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be part of a Government that is prepared to address all the elements of law that have been holding back this country of ours. Over the last 9 years, the Labour Party opposite added, at every possible opportunity, to the costs and compliance of those businesses that we need as a country to be competitive. I was interested to hear that Phil Goff said he would be holding the Government to account to ensure that it met its promises. Well, we very specifically promised we would introduce a 90-day trial period of employment, the same as that in Australia and as that which is held in the UK. In fact, every developed country includes in their employment law a period of trial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EI want to set out the reasons why I think this is an important improvement for New Zealand. I acknowledge Labour members opposite. I do not think a single member on the Labour benches has been involved in a small business that has employed 20 people. I could take my entire 10 minutes and list each of the union officials in the Labour Party, who believe that the unions are the A to Z of wealth creation. I say to members opposite that this Government\u2019s employment laws are about proper balance, and the 90-day trial period is a change that we need to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003ELet me tell members some of the good reasons for this bill to become law. I served for 3 years as the Minister of Corrections. We all know that the most important element of reducing the reoffending rate for those who come out of prison is for them to be able to get into work. In fact, if we look at the statistics of those coming out of prison, we see that the reality is that getting back into work is the single greatest factor in reducing their reoffending rate. The very real problem that members opposite do not understand is that a small business of fewer than 20 employees constitutes the vast bulk of businesses in New Zealand. The opportunity of employing somebody straight out of P\u0101remoremo Prison is a very real risk that many employers are not prepared to take, even though it is in New Zealand\u2019s interests that a small employer gives a break to a person coming out of prison. It is best for them, it is best for New Zealand, and it is particularly important if we are to reduce reoffending rates. The reality for many small employers is that they are not prepared to take the risk with those sorts of employees, such as new migrants, young people, and ex-prisoners. That is what makes this 90-day trial period so sensible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EI know that I am not allowed to use the \u201Ch\u201D word, but to hear Trevor Mallard raving in this Parliament about the importance of such a bill going to a select committee is truly remarkable. We are talking about the change that is being made in this bill. Did members opposite send the KiwiSaver legislation to a select committee? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217b82bd89d3e435caf0ac040ab1921e7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, we did not!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f1713594f364175939aec5334e128ef\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! Do we hear that? When Labour members were in Government they did not have to send the changes to a select committee. But now that they are in Opposition, they have suddenly changed their tune. Oh, what double standards! They have not been in Opposition 6 days and they have suddenly changed their view about the importance of measures being sent to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EI want to refer to the important checks provided in this bill in respect of the 90-day trial period, and I want to commend the Minister for her very balanced and sensible approach. It is right that the 90-day trial period should not be able to be used in areas such as seasonal work. We do not want the situation of a person who does 90 days of work every year for an orchardist in my electorate being determined to be a new employee and put on a trial period every time. That is not right. That would be an exploitation of the intent of the trial period. So I commend the Minister for making plain that the trial period is a one-off and is not to be repeated over and over again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EI also say to members opposite that it is proper that this bill will not impact on the stand-down period for a person on a benefit\u2014that is, if a person who is on a benefit takes up\u2014[Interruption] I know that members opposite like having people on benefits. They are the anti-growth party. They are the party of envy. They are the party that would prefer someone was not working rather than being in a trial period. I have yet to hear an argument, for all the beating of their chests, as to why, when the Australian Labor Government has a trial period in its employment law and the United Kingdom has a trial period in its employment law, if we are to have an equivalent position in the New Zealand law, then that is somehow an awful position to have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EI really think that this bill exposes just how out of touch Labour is with the wealth-creating small businesses that exist in New Zealand. I expect the human resources manager of a big employer like Sealord\u2019s to have the expertise to ensure that that employer can meet the very detailed and demanding requirements of employment law. But the reality is that businesses employing fewer than 20 people do not have a human resources manager, and they have become incredibly risk-averse around employment decisions. This 90-day trial period is just what is needed to give them the confidence to take on those higher-risk employees and give those Kiwis a fair go. The real winners from this bill are not the businesses; it is those people who, to get their first step on the rung of the employment ladder\u2014people who come out of prison, who come in as migrants, or who are applying for their very first job\u2014can be given the opportunity, and given\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2593273f6cc430f9cad23a278099857\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: No rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220078f99b57324028889a8fc0de81273d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the member says \u201CNo rights.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b4dfe575b584beb98086017583fe893\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: She hasn\u2019t read the bill!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d3275d1ef4f4f1baa34942430c6db4b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: She obviously has not read the bill. The bill makes it absolutely plain that if there are issues of exploitation in the workforce, of sexual harassment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b8fd841c37a49478649018823296bb0\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: So they\u2019ll just say it\u2019s for another reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242ba1e181be44281af10490818eeda90\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member arguing that if a person on a 90-day trial is sexually harassed, then they have no protections? Of course not, and the member knows that. That is where her rhetoric is getting away from the facts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EThis bill is about a new Government delivering on its promises. This bill is about giving people, like young people, a chance to get their first foot on the employment ladder. This bill is about recognising that the engine room of the New Zealand economy is small businesses, and, rather than having 9 years of extra compliance costs and extra hassle, this Government is about supporting small business and creating the opportunities for jobs and wealth creation. I know that members opposite do not care about small business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u002201c7edd7d7a444ac99bf907b9dbbd6b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201c7edd7d7a444ac99bf907b9dbbd6b5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E That was an angry and out-of-control speech from Nick Smith. Of course, he has the right to be angry, because he was not given a trial period when he was deputy leader of the National Party. He did not get 90 days; he got 14 days, and he was sacked. But we do not need the protection of industrial law to stop that happening. The law at the moment states that one can be sacked for incompetence and irrationality, and that was almost certainly what Nick Smith was sacked for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ENick Smith said that the Employment Relations Amendment Bill gives a trial period. That shows how little Nick Smith understands about the current law. Section 67 of the Employment Relations Act allows for a trial period. I tell Dr Smith that that was put into the law by a Labour Government. But the Labour Government did not say that during that 90-day period people could be sacked wrongfully, unfairly, illegitimately, and without cause. No New Zealander believes that any Kiwi should be able to be sacked for no good cause and to have no right of redress. That is why what Kate Wilkinson said\u2014\u201CThis bill is not about taking away rights;\u201D\u2014is the opposite of the truth. This bill does one major thing: it takes away the right of the ordinary Kiwi worker, if a bad employer dismisses that person without cause in the first 90 days of employment, to the protection of being able to take up the matter as a personal grievance or to take it to the Employment Court. Which New Zealander does not believe that it is fair that every other New Zealander should have that right of redress? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWe are fundamentally against this bill on that matter of substance. All New Zealanders who are wrongly dismissed are entitled to the protection of having an avenue of redress. That is the right\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282c853e1c0b747eca41617710486268e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: He won\u2019t promise to repeal it, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286669e4e236940f2b49df52321adb33a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I do promise to repeal what the National Government is doing. It will be gone as one of the early steps of the next Labour Government in 2011. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EBut I will promise that when we do that, we will do it with due process, because the other thing that we fundamentally object to about this legislation is that it takes away such a fundamental right of an employee without due process. Having a job is fundamental to every New Zealander. To lose that job is serious, and New Zealanders have to have that right of redress. I say to Kate Wilkinson that this right is being taken away without the due process of the normal democratic procedures of this House. It is an absolute outrage, as the human rights commissioner said, that such a fundamental right should be withdrawn from New Zealanders without even one New Zealander having the right to have his or her voice heard before a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWe know why all bills go to a select committee. All bills go to a select committee\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fb1bf8d2054443f824a5a3691806232\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: When did the KiwiSaver Bill go to a select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251a9d57a8f8a431194d05ca1ef6c75d7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: All bills go to a select committee, with very rare exceptions, and I tell Nick Smith that there is a good reason for that. When one rushes legislation\u2014and it is impossible to describe the Employment Relations Amendment Bill as anything other than rushed\u2014mistakes are made. That is why every member of this House who is not a member of the executive is on a select committee: to put Government legislation under scrutiny to make sure the Government got it right. That will not happen with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ESecondly, bills go to a select committee because New Zealanders have the right in a democracy, when other rights are under attack, to go to Parliament and present submissions. There is no justifiable reason why New Zealanders should be denied the right to have their voice heard on this legislation\u2014no reason at all. Nor was any notice given that this legislation was to be rushed through the House. There was no notice in the Speech from the Throne. Kate Wilkinson herself said that the bill would not be part of National\u2019s first 100 days in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ENational made this decision, and we have to ask why. Was it because National had so little confidence in the equity of its own legislation that it did not want New Zealanders to look at it? Normally, in the case of legislation like this, a Government would give the chance for conflicting opinions to be heard before a select committee. I know for a fact that Business New Zealand would probably support this legislation, but I heard its chief executive say on Breakfast the other morning\u2014I was in the studio with him\u2014that this is the wrong way to do it. Even those who think there might be some merit in this legislation believe there is no merit in not giving New Zealanders, trade unions, business groups, or any other stakeholders the right to have their voice heard before this legislation is rammed through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThis Government has been so arrogant in its first week in office that Gerry Brownlee had to be shamed into putting the legislation on the Table so that the Opposition could even see it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a081b48d7b1f4ccdb02e639b65e2523c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: At midnight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022399998d588954e3898d98fcc68a4f8d4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, it was not at midnight; it was at a quarter to midnight. I say to Mr Brownlee that suddenly, at a quarter to midnight, eight bills, or five bills\u2014or whatever the number of bills was\u2014were put on the Table. So not only does this bill not go to a select committee, not only are New Zealanders denied the opportunity to have their voice heard, not only do members of this House not have the opportunity to carefully scrutinise that legislation, but National did not even want New Zealanders or members in this Chamber to know what was in the bill until just hours before it was going to be rammed through. I say to Mr Brownlee that that is a disgrace, and it is an ominous sign, from a Government that has been so arrogant in its first week in Parliament, of what it intends to do for the future. In Opposition the National Party said what an outrage it was if any matter was placed under urgency, but although the latter stages of a bill may sometimes have gone through under urgency, the Labour Government still put bills through select committee hearings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI endorse what the Human Rights Commission said about the process of this bill. The commission said that \u201Crushed legislation is \u2026 risky legislation\u201D. This legislation is being rushed. The commission said that this is such a fundamental change in employment law that it should go to a select committee. That is what the Human Rights Commission said. Its job is to uphold the rights of New Zealanders, and it said that this bill should be considered at a select committee and that people should have the right to have input. The commission said that basic democracy requires \u201Ctransparency, participation and accountability.\u201D The National Government is so arrogant that it is denying New Zealanders those things\u2014transparency, participation, and accountability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe Human Rights Commission itself wanted to make submissions on this bill, because it will have a particularly negative effect on vulnerable New Zealanders: school-leavers seeking their first jobs and those who are disadvantaged in the employment market. I say to Kate Wilkinson that under this legislation these people can be sacked because the employer does not like the colour of their eyes, and they have no redress. It is unheard of that a Government, in one of its first steps, could deny people the right of fundamental justice, which is that when people have been treated unfairly or wrongly, they have some redress for that treatment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ENational says that this provision applies only to those firms where there are 20 or fewer workers. I ask Kate Wilkinson what percentage of New Zealanders comes into that category. This arrogant Government will deny workers in the 96 percent of businesses that employ under 20 workers their rights of protection against unfair dismissal. This Government is prepared to strip people of basic rights. John Key\u2019s Christmas present to New Zealand workers, who are already under stress because of the uncertainty of their employment future, is to put them under even greater stress by removing this basic principle\u2014this basic human right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022 data-id=\u0022acae82e87df249c2a52b627a34a6475e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acae82e87df249c2a52b627a34a6475e\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E If the Employment Relations Amendment Bill that is in front of us today is indicative of the National Government\u2019s intended approach to both democratic process and the rights of workers, I think some of the people who so happily voted for Mr Key and his colleagues a few weeks ago may find themselves waking up to some rather unpleasant realities in the months ahead. There was no word in National\u2019s 100-day plan that this would be one of the first things it did, nor was there any indication that a measure with such drastic impacts on literally hundreds of thousands of workers would be pushed through under urgency in the first week of Parliament, without any opportunity for public submission or debate whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EAlthough the Green Party accepts that a major select committee process did take place a couple of years back when Wayne Mapp\u2019s Employment Relations (Probationary Employment) Amendment Bill was considered by the previous Parliament, that does not mean there should be no public process on or proper parliamentary consideration of the new bill that is in front of us today. Firstly, this bill is somewhat different from Mr Mapp\u2019s original effort, and, secondly, even an abbreviated and shortened select committee submission and consideration process would have been far more democratic than the rush to judgment and the simple sham that is taking place in the House today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EOn top of that, the Government has taken its new-found power to extremes in not even having the courtesy to supply other members of the House with a copy of the bill until very late last night, only hours before the commencement of this debate. To think we can have a really good consideration of this bill in those circumstances is ridiculous. Perhaps National has so little confidence in what it is doing that it thinks the ability of those of us who oppose this legislation to prepare for this first reading must be kept to an absolute minimum. Handicapping Opposition parties like this does not say a lot for National\u2019s confidence in the capacity of its own members to debate the contents of this bill fairly and squarely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EAs the Human Rights Commission said yesterday, and as Mr Goff has already mentioned: \u201CRushed legislation is potentially risky legislation. \u2026 The select committee process is an important check and balance where both employers and employees rights can be debated in a measured way. Submissions to select committees reinforce democratic principles of transparency, participation and accountability.\u201D Shame on this shiny new Government for taking such a shabby approach in one of its first major legislative measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003ETurning to the content of the bill itself, I say the Green Party, of course, strenuously opposes this new law, which aims to give small and medium sized organisations employing up to 20 people the ability to fire staff at will during their first 90 days on the job. At any given moment, around 100,000 workers are in that position. The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions says that over 700,000 employees a year will potentially be affected. That means that a big percentage of New Zealand\u2019s workforce will feel the impact of a law under which workers can be dismissed for almost any reason, without the right of appeal, in their first 3 months on the job. People who are in their most vulnerable phase of their employment will become even more defenceless than they are now, and will become prey to the depredations of those who practise less than scrupulous employment procedures. The bill will play into the hands of those employers who are lazy, mean, prejudiced, or simply ignorant about how to treat staff well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022337951030b6f401d8e8805974b794da6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How many people have you employed? How many jobs have you created? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022588ef5466f7f4f0890fc5785011f359a\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The member asks how many people I have employed and managed. It is quite a few. The last organisation I ran before I came to this Parliament employed around 50 staff, thank you, I say to Dr Smith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EDeep-seated biases against people on the grounds of things like race, gender, age, illness, disability, or sexuality will come to the fore, even if they are not openly acknowledged. Although remedies in cases of those types of discrimination will still be available, when an employer does not have to give any reason for sacking someone it is very easy to let the person go for prejudiced reasons, without ever revealing those reasons. When people can be dismissed like this with no legal come-back, it is very easy for poor employers to target the most vulnerable sections of the workforce as they please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EFor example, I note a statement yesterday from the migrant workers organisation, Migrante Aotearoa, in which spokesperson Dennis Maga says \u201Cthe Bill will open the doors for further exploitation of a vulnerable section of the workforce. Migrants often have a limited knowledge of their workplace rights and some employers are already taking advantage of this.\u201D Mr Maga is particularly provoked by the way in which Business New Zealand is saying that the 90-day law will help migrants, because it will be easier for them to find paid work. In fact, he says, the bill will simply serve to make things worse for migrants, who already have language issues, who do not know much, or anything, about New Zealand law, and who may well fear the power of their employer to compromise their legal right to stay here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EAlso hard hit will be M\u0101ori workers, who are disproportionately represented in low-wage occupations and who often move between jobs more than other parts of the workforce do. M\u0101ori continue to be subject to overt and covert racial prejudice on the part of some employers even now, before the new bill goes through. This 90-day fire-at-will bill will only make a bad situation worse for tangata whenua. I congratulate the M\u0101ori Party on its decision to oppose the bill, in line with its earlier opposition to Dr Mapp\u2019s Employment Relations (Probationary Employment) Amendment Bill. The M\u0101ori Party, of course, does understand what the impact of this bill will be on M\u0101ori workers, and it is just a pity that its new-found allies in Government are choosing not to listen to its concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThere are many reasons why this bill should not proceed. To those who say it will give employers the ability to apply probationary periods to new staff, I say that in fact\u2014as Mr Goff has already pointed out\u2014such a right is already available under existing employment law, but with fair and reasonable protections for both employee and employer. Once this bill becomes law, most basic protections will no longer exist. There will be no option to take a personal grievance to the Employment Relations Authority or to the Employment Court. Employers will simply be able to tell someone to go at any point during his or her first 3 months on the job, and unless the sacking is on overtly discriminatory grounds then that is that from the worker\u2019s point of view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThe fact that the Government is introducing this measure at a time when we are facing deepening recession and higher unemployment is even more worrying. I remember as a child hearing stories of what used to happen in the Great Depression of the 1930s. Employers would take desperate unemployed people on to do a job, sometimes involving back-breaking and difficult work, get them working really hard, then fire them when they had used them up physically or mentally\u2014or when they had simply had enough of them. Without any protection the worker goes, only to be replaced by the next desperate person in the unemployed queue. And the cycle continues. I hate to think that we in New Zealand would ever return to those days, but this bill totally opens the way for that situation to happen from May next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EMy fears about what could happen once this legislation is fully implemented are made worse by comments buried on page 9 of the explanatory note of the bill\u2014and I do not know how many members have had a chance to see this yet. There the final statement reads: \u201CConsideration could be given to evaluating the outcomes of this legislative change with a view to extending it to cover all employees in the future.\u201D So although employees of enterprises that employ more than 20 people may feel unconcerned at present because they are not directly affected now, I do not think that in the long run anyone will be safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThis bill will have other negative consequences as well as those I have mentioned already. For example, people will be afraid to change jobs, even when it is the best thing to do for them, and often for their employers as well, because of the knowledge that when they start afresh they may not be there for long. That will particularly impact on people who have to relocate when they are seeking new work. Although the bill makes it sound as though the probationary period will be by amicable agreement between the employer and employee, in fact workers are in an extremely powerless position at that time and the employer holds all the aces. How many people who are keen for a job are not going to agree to a probationary period if they know, or even suspect, that that is the only way they will get the job? If this bill goes through, there will be no legal protection against unjustifiable actions by employers. People will be less likely to move jobs, leading to labour market rigidity in some areas. Because of the lack of legal protection, there will be no way for workers to clear their name if they have been dismissed for reasons they feel are unfair or prejudicial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EAnd to add an even worse dimension to all of this, workers who are dismissed during the first 90 days on the job will be subject to the 13-week stand-down from Work and Income, if Work and Income chooses to apply it. I have heard in the media\u2014and in the House just now from Dr Nick Smith\u2014that the Minister, Kate Wilkinson, says that is not National\u2019s intention, but I have looked at this bill and can see nowhere within its clauses anything that will make that change happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThis bill is an attack on the rights of some of the most vulnerable and powerless people in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022df4a294eead441128e68974f83d1751f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df4a294eead441128e68974f83d1751f\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Employment Relations Amendment Bill for one reason and one reason only: it will foster and promote employment. I am able to say that because, unlike members of the House on the other side\u2014and I know there are many unionists over there, and they are creating a wonderful show for the television audience and for union officers\u2014I have practised employment law since it became a speciality in 1991. During that period I have handled approximately 150 personal grievance cases for unjustified dismissal, for both employees and employers\u2014in fact, more often for employees. I cannot recall offhand any case during that period where the dismissed employee had been working for 3 months or less. There may be one\u2014someone might find one in my name\u2014but I could not think of one last night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThat is no great surprise, because when we did some research yesterday we found that the Department of Labour does not maintain accurate figures on length of service, but what figures it does have show that the vast majority\u2014about 80 percent\u2014of personal grievances are brought by employees with service of 1 to 4 years. The next most common\u201410 to 15 percent\u2014involve employees with service of 10 or more years. The next most common involve those with service of 7 to 9 months. So about 3 to 5 percent of personal grievance cases are brought by employees who have been in employment for less than 3 months. If there are members on the other side who have some experience in employment law and personal grievances, they will know that that is the reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EI listened to the Green member Sue Bradford, and what she said was very similar to the kind of scaremongering that happened after the Employment Contracts Act was introduced in 1991. What many people do not recognise is that that supposedly Draconian Act\u2014\u201CDraconian\u201D is a favourite word of members on the other side\u2014gave personal grievance rights to everyone. Prior to that Act, one had to be a union member to take a personal grievance. There were predictions then just like those made by the Green member; there were predictions of mass sackings, of unfair treatment, of oppressive conduct, and of all sorts of things. It did not happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EIt is not going to happen under this bill, either, for some very good reasons. The employer does not want to go through that process. It is a complete hassle and a diversion. If employers are sensible and well advised, when they take on employees they will get advice from an employment lawyer, who will tell them that getting rid of an employee for any reason\u2014even for serious misconduct\u2014will take 3 to 6 months or more and will cost $3,000 to $5,000 in legal fees, if they want to make sure they get it right. It has been a surprise to me in my 15 years in employment law practice how uncertain and unwilling employers are to dismiss someone without advice. They will need to take advice. Even if they get it right, the dismissal can be challenged under the law as it is now. That means that the employer is dragged to the Employment Relations Authority, or to mediation. Most competent employment lawyers will tell them to pay what we in the trade call \u201Cgo-away money\u201D\u2014pay the employee $3,000 or $4,000 to go away. Any employer considering taking on staff who receives that advice\u2014unless the employer is completely stupid\u2014must absolutely, utterly need a new staff member before stepping up to the brink.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThis bill will allow employers to take someone on and, as Government members have said, give them a go, secure in the knowledge that for 90 days only they can dismiss that person without being dragged to the Employment Relations Authority, or, as an alternative, being made to pay \u201Cgo-away money\u201D, plus lawyers\u2019 fees of, say, $5,000 to $7,000. But it will not happen. There will be about the same number of cases as now\u20143 to 5 percent\u2014and I will tell members why. If an employer goes down that route and uses this provision improperly, what happens? Firstly, as I have said, he or she will be up for 5 or 6 grand. The Hon Dr Michael Cullen said yesterday\u2014in fairness, I have to say I think he had not seen the bill at the time\u2014that there would be dismissals for pregnancy and those kinds of things. The bill makes it clear that that cannot happen. The discrimination provisions in section 103 of the Employment Relations Act are preserved. Unlike what the Green member suggested, it is actually not very easy to sack somebody for improper reasons such as pregnancy, sexual harassment, or racial grounds, and hide it as a poor performance issue. It is very difficult. I can say that because I have been doing employment law for 15 years, since the Employment Contracts Act came in and employment law became a specialty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EI will tell members why most employers will not misuse this bill. If they need to hire someone else, then what do they have to do? They have to go through the process again of advertising, of interviewing at least once, possibly two or three times, of taking a deep breath and employing someone new, of training him or her, of inducting that person into the firm, of giving him or her safety training\u2014all those things. No rational employer wants to do that unless he or she has to. OK, there will be some ratbags, probably, just like there are ratbags now, who will take advantage of this law, but they will be few in number. They will be 3 to 5 percent of employers. As for the rest, someone like my mate down south who runs a liquor store could do with a new fork-lift driver at this time of year, but he will not employ someone at the moment, because he knows what he would have to go through if it went wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228af54269fc1247bdb17a5f2aa42d2375\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: He can use the probationary provisions now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220896622623c04a62b97b026e3ead85a6\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is perfectly fine. They were introduced, actually, in the Employment Contracts Act. That terribly Draconian piece of legislation also introduced probationary periods. But, as Government members have pointed out, the problem with those provisions is there is no protection for the employer. I have advised employers on using probationary periods, and the extraordinary detail that one needs to follow in order to get them right is a very real impediment to people being employed. It will not happen. We have the usual glass half-empty claim from the left that people will be sacked left, right, and centre for being pregnant, for being black, or for having the wrong-coloured eyes, as one member said. It simply will not happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThis bill is a very sensible measure to promote employment. It allows employers to employ staff secure in the knowledge that for 90 days only, and once only, they will not have to pay go-away money, or worse, to dismiss them. The ACT Party is happy to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5108960e05e4872a2858b3430d52ca0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5108960e05e4872a2858b3430d52ca0\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Can I offer my congratulations to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and the other Speakers, the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith, Eric Roy, and the Hon Rick Barker. I offer my congratulations to all new members of the House on both sides. I also offer my commiserations to those who never made it back to the House, either by their own desire or through the voters\u2019 desire. My message to you is \u201CGoodbye and good luck.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003EBut can we now concentrate on the bill, which is about people at the margins. Those guys over there would not know what the margins are, because they have been on good salaries and in nice cars for 9 long years. They have not worried about who has union membership. They do not care about the poor prisoner from P\u0101remoremo prison who is trying to get a job and trying to make a go of it. They have not cared about that for the last 9 years. For 9 long years they have not cared about the long-term unemployed. What they have cared about is trying to hold on to the limousines and the ministerial salaries. That is what they have been doing for the last 9 years. They do not care about the immigrants, and all we hear is cackle, cackle, cackle from the witches and warlocks across the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party members have to have a cause c\u00E9l\u00E8bre. They have to have something to hold on to. But I am afraid that 6 months from now it will be just like the anti-smacking legislation. Nothing will have come of it. All the hatred and all the scaremongering in the world that happened then will have died away and the prisoner from P\u0101remoremo prison who has had a chance\u2014a second chance even\u2014will be grateful to the people who had a bit of vision. He will be grateful for that second chance. So is the bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dce846600fbe4e1e9d6a7c3a393fad71\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t need a law change, you can do it now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f2c1c53d1be4a6eb6f04148a359f73f\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: That member needs to calm down because 9 years in Opposition is a long time. She should get used to it, because I am afraid the Labour Party will be ensconced in those seats for a very, very long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003ESo is this bill about the right to dismiss or is it about the right to choose and the right to a second chance, or even a first chance? Is it about the right to dismiss or is it about the right to show the employer what one has? Is it about the right to dismiss or is it about the right to a second chance? What about the employer, when we are faced with tough economic times? Is it not a chance to grow the business in challenging times? Is it not about making sure that one gives not only the employee but also the employer a chance\u2014just a small chance\u2014to get on with it? I remember who was in power in the 1980s when Rogernomics came about. And yes, Sir Roger is back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfef404e0ca4423ebf73bfe843131054\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s your mate!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d89ecc996da438a877ad3adb440ed10\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: But I say to Darren Hughes that we should not forget who else was with Sir Roger Douglas in those days. The former Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Helen Clark\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022680d2b5442c248318c81f11f38092b96\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Name-dropper!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229237f1c46ed2471ea4f37ef478eaa334\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. She was a pretty good Prime Minister, I might add. The Hon Dr Michael Cullen\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a80ca4491d9b4060aee28eb17cc74574\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s good, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b83acd7443244d9b82faf046f375be52\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: No, he used to be. He is gone, he lost his job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a6f2a26e9894753bc754402206de7ba\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: He did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022283cbde6869c41b1a5d184667dfb5bba\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: He lost his job. It is time for him to gracefully move out of these seats and let Lesley Soper back in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003EThis bill is about a chance to try something new, and to try someone new. These people would have us believe that it is all about trying to sack somebody, but it is actually about trying to employ somebody who has the skills or the opportunity to try to get the skills\u2014all of those people at the margins who have been hanging out for an opportunity for the last 9 years. Darren Hughes would not know, and that is why the people of \u014Ctaki said: \u201CSee ya later, Darren, we don\u2019t want you as the local member of Parliament.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d3f0a92fb4143919be7b13635ec8446\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: How many seats have you lost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085ed362c460404a9d162fd8dcc0bcbd\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Labour members still go on about 10 years ago, because they have forgotten about the real people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250b8a7a3913c4c1f9364d035073e5ad2\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: This bill will give those on the margins an opportunity, and we should not fear an opportunity, especially given the storm that is coming and that is hitting our shores right at this very moment. We heard the Minister of Finance say to the House this morning that there are tough economic times ahead, and we need to be able to offer those on the margins a second chance to partake of the opportunities out there. Also, our small employers need the ability to have a bit of flexibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003EThis bill is not about sacking holus-bolus every worker who comes along. It is not about that, and I wish that my whanaunga, my relations, in the M\u0101ori Party, would realise that, but they have a bit of learning to go through, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003EI close on this note. In the Depression of the 1930s, throughout the world people such as Franklin D Roosevelt and Savage came along with some new ideas and new deals. It meant tinkering\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f743c8ee1024e4ab6386d7c74f2f1c6\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: And they weren\u2019t from the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229103ec5c2eb24af587e5d1e8ff8bf124\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely\u2014absolutely from the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca5380ac20c9464099d5e7bee8f273fd\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: They weren\u2019t your ideals; they were our ideals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c027afc99ff4e9ebeb78204b887b584\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: If we have a look a Mr Cunliffe\u2019s background, we see that he should be in the ACT Party. But I will not get personal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003EAs I was saying, it is about a new deal and a new time. It is about a new vision, a vision that all workers and all employers need to grab hold of because they need to be able to be part of the recovery and not be pushed outside it by some old, outdated philosophy that has never worked, has never been shown to work, and never will work. The battles between capitalism, communism, and socialism were won and lost years ago. It is now time to move on and make sure that we give everybody on the margins the opportunity to be part of the economic recovery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022 data-id=\u00224584ee9699d3480b84877b1f5007c999\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224584ee9699d3480b84877b1f5007c999\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I begin my contribution by quoting some of the words that the Minister of Labour, Kate Wilkinson, used in her address in this first reading debate on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. Kate Wilkinson is a list member of Parliament from Christchurch. She used to be a lawyer for the Exclusive Brethren, and that fact, combined with the fact that she is now the Minister of Labour and is promoting the very lack of employment relationships that Exclusive Brethren members have promoted day after day\u2014through their practices in their own businesses and also through their writings\u2014should be no surprise. The relationship between Kate Wilkinson, her former occupation, and this legislation comes as no surprise to anyone on the Opposition side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson said that this bill was not about taking away rights. Well, frankly, that is the only thing that this bill is about. The rest of it is just nonsense; it is rhetoric. The soft sell that Kate Wilkinson and her colleagues did around the country prior to the election will not wash anymore, because this is the time when the legislation comes under the hard scrutiny of the public. This is the time when people will see the reality of what those soft promises meant. This bill is about taking away employment rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EI will read something to the House, and that is section 67 of the Employment Relations Act 2000. That section is headed \u201CProbationary arrangements\u201D. Section 67(1) states: \u201CWhere the parties to an employment agreement agree as part of the agreement that an employee will serve a period of probation or trial after the commencement of the employment,\u201D. That provision goes on to state that this agreement must be put in writing. Then it states that it is not acceptable to unjustifiably dismiss an employee during the probationary period. That is what the existing probationary arrangements say. They are in the law now and they work very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003ESo Tau Henare\u2019s friends who are coming out of P\u0101remoremo prison\u2014as he explained to us in his contribution\u2014and finding it hard to get a job come under the existing provisions and can go to an employer and say: \u201CGive me a try. I want to get a new life, and I want a job.\u201D They can be covered under existing law\u2014section 67, \u201CProbationary arrangements\u201D, of the Employment Relations Act 2000. Actually, the definition of probation is \u201Ca testing of the conduct or the character of a person as a candidate\u201D, and, interestingly enough, it is as a candidate either for membership of a religious organisation or for employment. I found that very interesting, given who the Minister proposing this legislation is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EThe very terminology in the law and in the dictionary backs up the fact that there is an existing provision that can be used by any employer, large or small, to employ, for a probationary period, a person who is hard to place in the labour market and might find it harder to get a job than others\u2014as has been so eloquently described by National members, who suddenly give a toss about unemployed people. Those people can already be employed on a probationary period, so what is the difference between the existing legislation and the bill that Kate Wilkinson is proposing? There is only one difference between the existing law and the bill proposed by the member, and that is that her bill takes away all employment rights for unjustified dismissal. So employers would not have to be fair. They would not have to go through any sort of process. They could just sack people, perhaps because they did not like the colour of their hair, their eyes, or their skin, or because they did not like their attitude, or because they might be pregnant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EBut, of course, Kate Wilkinson says that they can go to the Human Rights Commission, and that there are existing safeguards for those sorts of things. I am talking about the Human Rights Commission, which, only a couple of years ago, the National Party was describing as PC gone mad and saying should be scrapped. Suddenly National will load up the Human Rights Commission with cases that could easily be dealt with through mediation and the Employment Relations Authority if there was an unjustified dismissal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EAll that is asked of New Zealand employers is that they be fair to their employees. That is clearly too high a standard for the National Government. To expect employers to be fair to their workers is clearly too big an ask. Well, I think it is a disgrace, and I can tell the Minister responsible for this legislation that both the content and the process we have seen is something that I never expected of her. I know that people in Canterbury would have expected more of her behaviour as the Minister, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a077574410714aadaf7b871c8d943b0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264f3698dc92b4290a2402803e0e66ac7\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: 3 days into the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269763120bb894fe085b26ed2d4a0eaa8\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: She is just 3 days into the job, and she is showing a total disregard for process and a total disregard for the rights of some of the most vulnerable members in our community\u2014the people who might find it difficult to get a job but who should always be treated in a fair way. This is a new standard being set by the National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003ESo in the first 100 days we have seen this great bold new vision for the future\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d88aab34a98746f4a2c61f2118fadf09\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Turbocharged!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c78fd054bb084465bb41360484a3649a\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, we have seen a turbocharged vision for a brighter future. We have seen broken promises. We have heard the Minister say that she will not support an amendment from my colleague Trevor Mallard to ensure that Anne Tolley does not break yet another promise made on the election trail. That promise is actually on video. People can load up their computers and watch Anne Tolley say that this measure will not apply to teachers. Kate Wilkinson has refused to support an amendment by my colleague Trevor Mallard to enable Anne Tolley to have been telling the truth. There is an example of loyalty to one\u2019s colleagues!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003ESo we have seen a pile of broken promises. Even as recently as this week on Morning Report we had the Minister of Labour saying there would be additional safeguards in this bill. There are none. There are no additional safeguards, just the existing provisions. All that this bill does is take away rights. The first 100 days of this great vision, this turbocharged brighter future, has seen the lowest-paid workers being required to pay $730 million more tax over the next 5 years. KiwiSaver\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ab5d66731584432baa9fdf407b0f05d\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Gutted!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b32fcc657e074d6ea1ac6664a7bc9eb3\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: There has been an attempt by Bill English to gut KiwiSaver so that employers pay more and employees get less. This is a great vision for a turbocharged brighter future! We have set up a committee to review the science of climate change. Are we putting our hands up as the last deniers on the planet? Even George Bush has come on side with science. New Zealand has set up a committee to review the science on climate change. Now, in another great bold step forward, we are taking away workers\u2019 rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EI listened with interest this week to Phil O\u2019Reilly, the chief executive of Business New Zealand, who has always said that before we develop any legislation to fix a problem we should define what the problem is. What is the problem that the Government is trying to fix? Let us look at all the options that might be available to fix the problem. This measure has no problem definition at all in it. It is a disgrace because it is driven by the ideology of the sorts of people whom Kate Wilkinson has come into this House to represent. It is not an ideology that supports fairness, opportunity, or security. Every single New Zealander deserves that respect, that security, and that opportunity, regardless of his or her fortunes or lack of them. There is no problem definition. We do not even know what the problem is that this bill is trying to fix, let alone have the opportunity to debate options to fix it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EThe other point Phil O\u2019Reilly made is that the process whereby this measure is rammed through the House, under urgency, with the bill being tabled at 20 minutes to midnight on the night before the debate, is a total disgrace. It is a way to make shonky law. It is a way to encourage division. It is a way to have Kate Wilkinson back in this House within a matter of weeks with an amendment to her amendment, because the bill is full of holes. This bill is a disgrace to the House and I urge parties to oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022 data-id=\u00229766b7bb39834d4ca8ee01793030098d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229766b7bb39834d4ca8ee01793030098d\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Eight years ago Professor Jane Kelsey wrote a book called Reclaiming the Future: New Zealand and the Global Economy, in which she talked about what happened to M\u0101ori during the last recession, of the late 1980s. It is a book that should be required reading for all members of Parliament as Aotearoa stares down the barrel of another recession. In that book Jane Kelsey reminds us that until 1987, per head of population there were more M\u0101ori than non-M\u0101ori working in Aotearoa. That was just 21 years ago. Yet the way the media paint it, M\u0101ori have been basically unemployed lazy dole-bludgers ever since P\u0101keh\u0101 came to these shores. It is strange how much we are influenced by the media. The fact remains that just 21 years ago, more M\u0101ori than P\u0101keh\u0101 were working, our families were stable, our kids were healthy, and crime was down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EThen, of course, the crash hit. The world came crashing in on us, and in just 6 years M\u0101ori unemployment went from 1 percent to 15 percent. Nearly half of all 16 to 19-year-old M\u0101ori ended up on the dole, and our whole world fell apart. Now it seems we are heading right down that same track, but that this time we are starting from a place far worse than 21 years ago, because for M\u0101ori, M\u0101ori unemployment is already more than twice that of non-M\u0101ori, there are four times more M\u0101ori beneficiaries than non-M\u0101ori, and M\u0101ori society has still not fully overcome the devastating effects of the crash of 1987. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EEven after 9 years of great prosperity, the gaps between the rich and the poor were never closed, because Labour chose to close the programme rather than close the gap. Let all those from Labour who ponce on in pious and sanctimonious rage about mana enhancement and the perceived failings of the M\u0101ori Party hear this clearly for the first of many times over the next few years: the M\u0101ori Party was born out of the treachery of the Labour Party. The M\u0101ori Party was born out of the betrayal of 50 years of blind loyalty to a regime that took the M\u0101ori vote and spat on the M\u0101ori hand that offered it willingly. The M\u0101ori Party was born out of the theft of the foreshore and seabed. In 2005 the M\u0101ori Party took four seats from Labour. It held and increased its majorities in every one of those seats and took another seat in 2008. The M\u0101ori Party will take the other two seats in 2011. The M\u0101ori Party will remain forever a party in this House and a player in the governance of this country. Thanks to the treachery, the duplicity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022923c1e77a2ea4fe4bd6ff1e9a18c7702\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The rules of relevance still apply in this House even after events of more recent years. The M\u0101ori Party has a habit of coming to this House with speeches written by either Harry Walker or Helen Leahy, which they then read word for word. They are speeches that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228537a7a3806449a6b00c30fbb8ea3aff\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4e643babf474f9a85964f4d0900fd19\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I am speaking on a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2670712fd1742e99169487f59c82eaa\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I will listen to this point of order first, thanks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220fa1c91979146378659c1d36a2b5374\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: These speeches bear no relation to the bill. This bill, the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, is actually quite a narrow bill in its scope. It covers the issue of 90-day probationary clauses, the removal of personal grievances, and it also covers the removal of certain matters relating to KiwiSaver. One could cover within that the broad scope of employment relations. It does not cover the formation of the M\u0101ori Party, the Foreshore and Seabed Act, the Treaty of Waitangi, the service of various people in various battles and various things around the world, or what will happen in the 2011 election campaign. This is about employment relations. If members are going to come to the House with prepared speeches written for them, at least they should be written relevant to the bill in front of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228585dbc85c3d4af78480bb552bfc7cd8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has made his point. It is a fair point and the member with the call should focus his comments on the bill before the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb050acf766343f8a6a672b1671fc59d\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to speak on the bill. Within 90 days of the next election in 2011, the M\u0101ori Party will have taken the other two M\u0101ori seats and will remain forever a party in this House and a player in the governance of this country, thanks to the treachery, the duplicity, and the seditious betrayal by the Labour Party of the M\u0101ori people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c3b226e692f4d86bb3459f4e1e90b82\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Not only is that irrelevant, it is marginally offensive at the very least. If we are going to talk about seditious betrayal, then I would have thought the M\u0101ori Party was exposed to that in its behaviour during the whole of yesterday and this morning. The fact that Mr Harawira wanted to vote the other way is no excuse for his now venting his rage on the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d785237c1d824282a2b1bfc4312b082d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I just remind the member that the debate is on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. The member assured me that he would talk on the bill, and I accept that assurance for what it is. I ask the member to now please turn his comments to the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249927963539a4483b583cbaf5de3ca2b\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d685c0b4074354805321ffc31399cb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, Mr Hide, I am on my feet. I now ask the member to focus his comments on the bill, as required by the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211ef96779fc44e6bb14e048fe9c11c2c\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I notice that Dr Michael Cullen\u2019s first point of order was correct in form. Certainly, the second point of order was not. I know that Dr Cullen knows, and I think you also know, that one cannot enter into debating points on a point of order, and one certainly cannot take the opportunity to abuse someone across the House while on a point of order. I ask you to rule accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c40cb249597a4994b97aaa968a42ee73\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the honourable Hone Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022116e02041efe4adca5208663cdb949af\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it your ruling that Dr Michael Cullen\u2019s last point of order was acceptable to you as Assistant Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d1c2c410ec748b1b352a4c146de5812\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Hide, I made no such ruling. If you reflect on it, I was not ruling for or against. I want the House to get on with its business. The points have been made, everyone understands what it is, Mr Harawira has said he is going to address the bill, and I look forward to hearing his comments on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022872b4e11d8604172bc4e639942b5c090\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you to rule consistently so that if I take a point of order explaining how the Labour Party betrayed M\u0101ori voters and, indeed, all of New Zealand while they were in Government, you would have to find that acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260d70cbc5b614706980d27dc748fb91c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It is very clear to any experienced member\u2014and that member has been here for some time\u2014that there is no obligation for you to rule on points of order, even when they are frivolous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7df19015a14a08a4433a2745e82c89\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is correct. The House is here to consider business; the business is the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. The honourable Hone Harawira is going to address the bill. Let us move on and hear his speech on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250b0ef23284744588e3b84ef10c5d5ef\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: Getting back to this bill, I say that my previous reference was to the employment prospects of members of this Parliament after the election of 2011, and the first 90 days after that. It is most relevant to this bill. We are now considering another bill to amend the Employment Relations Act 2000 by introducing probationary periods for workers in their first 90 days on the job. This will directly affect employment for everyone in Aotearoa, particularly M\u0101ori. The bill proposes 90 days within which a person can be dismissed without reason, and without recourse to personal grievance or other legal proceedings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EThis bill is only four pages\u201410 clauses and a couple of new items. Apparently workers can still take legal proceedings if they are sacked but bosses do not have to give them their jobs back, so that is a pointless exercise. Mediation is also still available, but there is no incentive for employers to take people back under mediation. So that is a bit of a waste of time, as well. Then, of course, this bill is being put through the House under urgency, without any notice that it was even in the 100-day plan, or with any public debate. Yet we know only too well from the national outcry over the Mapp bill that this new 90-day bill will have massive and immediate negative implications for M\u0101ori, Pasifika, P\u0101keh\u0101, and tauiwi workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccc08464cdfb45d6a83043afb811a3ea\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: And young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226bbbe4295bf4dd7b4f550679f7e8540\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: And young people, thank you very much. We come to this debate acutely aware of the impending fallout that will hit workers in manufacturing, retail, and construction. These are industries that employ high numbers of M\u0101ori and Pasifika people. We are also acutely aware that M\u0101ori already earn way less than non-M\u0101ori across all industry groups. We come to this debate already aware of bad employment practices, like people being hired on fixed-term trials and then sacked for no valid reason\u2014particularly M\u0101ori, young people, and Pasifika women in the hospitality and retail sectors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EThis bill talks of those doing it tough in the labour market, like first-time workers, the long-term unemployed, the poorly skilled, and the low-waged. These are categories with high M\u0101ori numbers. Just last night we got a note from Te R\u016Bnanga o ng\u0101 Kaimahi M\u0101ori o Aotearoa supporting the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s decision to oppose the bill. It said: \u201CWith rising unemployment the first peoples to become unemployed will be the unskilled and low waged. M\u0101ori will be the majority peoples in this group.\u201D Furthermore, we note that although this bill talks about improving employment prospects, there are no provisions in it for induction or training, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136c6b0cb39e4aecb0d88039181d97dd\u0022\u003EIn case people need to hear it again, let me be very clear: the M\u0101ori Party is as concerned as anyone else about the need to help small and medium sized businesses to survive, grow, and flourish. We support any initiatives that will reduce compliance costs and encourage employers to be positive in their outlook, but not at the cost of those who will do the work. The M\u0101ori Party supports the right for all workers to be treated with fairness and dignity. We simply cannot see that this bill will encourage employers to do that; in fact, we believe that this bill will discourage the very things that are needed, such as clear contracts and decent employment practices. For all these reasons, the M\u0101ori Party will be opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc5dc219b4194c239a0d12bfa6e04890\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc5dc219b4194c239a0d12bfa6e04890\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E As a former Minister of Commerce, I shall read the adequacy statement of the regulatory impact statement into the record, as I did for a previous bill: \u201CIt has not been possible for the Regulatory Impact Analysis Team to undertake an assessment of the adequacy of the Regulatory Impact Analysis and the Regulatory Impact Statement for this proposal within the time frames.\u201D This is the second bill from the National - M\u0101ori Party - ACT Government that has not even tried to pay lip-service to the regulatory impact assessment process that is critical to quality regulatory frameworks. This is a Government that was so proud to appoint a Minister for Regulatory Reform, yet the first two bills it has introduced into the House do not even meet the benchmarks that were established by the previous Government. It is ridiculous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI ask the House how this bill is going to turbocharge the economy. I heard National Party MPs talk about productivity throughout the campaign. What does this do to increase workplace productivity? How is workplace productivity improved when employees do not know whether they will have a job at the end of their first 90 days in the job? How is productivity improved when we let employers off the hook in terms of understanding how to get the best from their workforce? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EFrom the Department of Labour\u2019s website I got an interesting little document on workplace productivity. It has all of the productivity drivers that have been developed in collaboration between Business New Zealand, the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions, and the Department of Labour. The document refers to building leadership and management, organising work, networking and collaborating, investing in people and skills, encouraging innovation and the use of technology, creating productive workplace cultures, and measuring what matters. It is the productivity driver called \u201CCreating Productive Workplace Cultures\u201D that I thought was really important, and it states: \u201CPositive relations between staff, teams and managers are the foundation of productive workplaces. A positive work environment motivates people and helps them commit to the organisation. People feel encouraged to \u2018go the extra mile\u2019. It\u2019s also important to value people\u2019s insights and experience. Their ideas can help your workplace to do things smarter and better. That means your business will become more innovative and productive over time.\u201D This was developed using real-life examples, real business case studies from real businesses increasing productivity on many levels. Not once does it say \u201CCreate a climate of fear and put people\u2019s jobs on the line for the first 90 days.\u201D Not once in any of these productivity drivers do we see that suggested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003ENational knows that 96 percent of all firms employ fewer than 20 staff. That is why the Labour Government established the portfolio of Minister for Small Business and also the Small Business Advisory Group. When I was Minister for Small Business, the Small Business Advisory Group recommended this provision. I agree that the Small Business Advisory Group recommended the provision, but I asked the advisory group to think about that, and it did, because it is a little bit smarter than National would perhaps give it credit for. Although I could not persuade the advisory group to give up on that view, it did identify what the real issue was, and that was fear of fear itself. Every one of those people had an anecdote or a story about what had happened to their mate\u2019s uncle\u2019s third cousin. Some of them had stories of their own\u2014stories of disappointment of pulling out the cheque book to pay a non-performing staff member who was dragging down the business. But they did not have to pull out the cheque book, at all; they just thought they had to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe National Government, in its drive for productivity and its drive to turbocharge the economy, says that that is OK, and that it is OK for people to think that is the case when the current law already provides for a guide to probation periods that enables people to have a period of time where they are essentially looking out for all the issues that are of concern. I think it is letting employers off the hook not to teach them how to employ staff well from the outset. Employment relationships are all about establishing what the expectations are from both sides of the relationship. National just cannot stand it. The bottom line is that if employers understood what the law currently allows and were able to use it effectively, there would be fewer personal grievances and increased productivity. I call that a win-win situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThis is an extremely lazy policy, and that is because it has not been through any process of scrutiny, at all. If the Government was so sure of itself, why would it not send this bill to a select committee for that scrutiny? Tau Henare said we needed to get it through quickly, to bring it in on time, but it does not come into effect until 1 April next year. What do those members mean, it has to be rushed through under urgency before Christmas? It is an April Fool\u2019s joke for ordinary workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI remind this House that yesterday was international Human Rights Day, and what does the new National Government do to celebrate this day? It takes human rights away from ordinary working New Zealanders as its way of trying to celebrate human rights, and that is just ridiculous. Today the New Zealand Government is reducing the rights of workers based solely on the size of the business they work for. We can guarantee that employers would not want to increase their businesses to 21 employees; they would want to keep their number to fewer than 20 so that they could rely on this 3-month \u201Cget out of jail free\u201D card. How ambitious is that for New Zealand? I do not think that is very ambitious for New Zealand; it is pathetic. Even Business New Zealand says the process is bad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI remind the House of a story we heard back in the 1990s. I remind this House that the Employment Contracts Bill, despite Gerry Brownlee\u2019s memory\u2014even though he was not here at the time\u2014actually did go to a select committee. I remember a mother coming to the select committee when the Employment Contracts Bill was before it. She pleaded the case for young people. She said that young people should be supported by an adult if they are going to be disciplined by their employer. She told the story of her son. I cannot remember how old her son was\u2014I think he was 17 or 18 at the time. He was in his first job in a shop in Christchurch. He stayed after work on a Friday night for a few drinks, and he was smoking. He flicked some ash on to the carpet, and it burnt the carpet. The employer came in at the time and he sacked him instantly, on the spot. It was that young man\u2019s first job. He had been looking for a job for a long time. That young man went away from that shop, bought a bottle of whiskey, drove himself down to a riverside, and took his own life. He killed himself because he could not stand the thought of going home and telling his parents that the first job he had ever got had been taken from him just through a foolish act and an employer who was not prepared to listen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI know that members will think this is a very extreme example, and it is. But anyone in this House who thinks that it is OK to take away rights from the most vulnerable people, while pretending that this is for vulnerable people, needs to think very carefully about the consequences at the extreme, because these are the consequences that will occupy the minds of New Zealanders in the future when we see those cases repeated. Tragically, history does repeat itself, and we are condemned to those mistakes of the past if we do not learn from them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022 data-id=\u0022669ca4f4b207434f8f704a4c5e0f781b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022669ca4f4b207434f8f704a4c5e0f781b\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take a call on the first reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. It is a very important bill for the Government to push through before Christmas because of the economic times we are currently in, where unemployment is rising and employees need to be given the chance to be employed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003EWe have just heard from the previous Minister for Small Business, Lianne Dalziel, who is now on the Opposition benches. She used to oversee the Small Business Advisory Group. She was talking up this legislation and saying how important it was. She said the No. 1 issue that was raised by that advisory group concerned the 90-day probationary period. It is fantastic that she alluded to that in her presentation and actually supported it. That just shows how that advisory group actually worked through the process of analysing how important the legislation we are debating this afternoon is to small and medium sized business with fewer than 20 staff. It is a great thing that we are addressing this issue today under the leadership of Prime Minister John Key. We will deliver for small and medium sized businesses, and we will give employers and employees the right to get on and create a very good working relationship. This was our pre-election commitment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003EUnemployment across the country is forecast to rise up to about 6 percent, and it is tracking up now. [Interruption] It is interesting that the previous Minister for Social Development and Employment, Ruth Dyson, is chipping in from the other side of the Chamber. When she was in the ministry and unemployment was clicking up then, before we had the election, she came out with a random comment to say she was not too concerned about unemployment increasing. Since then, unemployment has carried on increasing. It is vitally important that unemployed people are given the opportunity to get back into some form of employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003EIn my area I am delighted to now be representing the \u014Ctaki electorate, which encompasses the wonderful area of Kapiti and Horowhenua. In the last 12 months unemployment has risen in Kapiti alone by 44 percent\u201444 percent in the last 12 months in the Kapiti district. It just shows how important this legislation is going to be for small and medium sized businesses\u2014for those employers to give people the opportunity to get into a job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003EWe all know that it is particularly difficult in recruitment to know whether one has a compatible person who will work through with the employer and employee. Businesses across the country are saying that is one of the things that causes them a great amount of concern. The other issue is bureaucracy. The example I want to use comes from when I was on the campaign trail. I was out in an area in my electorate called Shannon. There was a mum and dad business that had just got going. They had mortgaged their whole house to set up their business. They had taken a risk, and they were concerned about attracting the right people into their business and about whether those people would be compatible. This legislation will help to give those people time to work out that compatibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003EIt is really important for the Government to progress this legislation through its first reading, second reading, Committee stage, and third reading. I look forward to having some ongoing dialogue with members on the other side of the House. Of course, all their union mates want to say: \u201COh well, this is just going to be the right to hire and fire on the 89th day.\u201D What an absolute load of hogwash. Anyone who has been involved in business knows that it is vitally important to upskill and to continue to train one\u2019s employees. Why would any employers in their right mind, on the 89th day, want to kick out those people whom they have just trained and who are compatible in their business? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that a whole lot of countries in the OECD have longer trial periods. It is interesting that the soon to be elected, if he has not been already, president of the Labour Party and former member of the New Zealand Amalgamated Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union said that it has a 6-month trial period. So I cannot understand why Opposition members are so concerned about this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003EMoving this legislation through will be vitally important when unemployment is tracking up. Vulnerable employees need to be given the opportunity to be taken on by employers. I have given an example of mum and dad investors who are petrified about taking the next step. They might currently have a wonderful innovative idea and they might be working out of their garage. We need to have more economic development in the region that I represent in \u014Ctaki, and in Napier where Chris Tremain is from. These people are really concerned about taking the next step of employing people and getting the right relationship between employee and employer. This legislation is vitally important to growing the economy, and we need to get on and endorse it. That is why I am speaking today very much in favour of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022 data-id=\u002282521d9addbe4c8e8c38f17787338dcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282521d9addbe4c8e8c38f17787338dcd\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to be able to speak to the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. Hearing all those well-thought-out deliveries from this side of the debating chamber certainly reinforces my view. I would like to start by acknowledging the concerns that the M\u0101ori Party member Hone Harawira expressed. Those things that happened during the late 1980s were hugely concerning. If we do not learn from the lessons of the past, then we are indeed likely to make those mistakes again. However, I make the point that although I had the responsibility in Opposition, before National came on to the Government benches, of looking after the people in the trades training sector, it became clear to me that there was a substantial blockage within the employment system. As the honourable member Lianne Dalziel mentioned, employers had the perception that taking on new staff was not worth the risk and the worry. We might say that theoretically it is not a problem; that the problem is with the employers. Well, I am sorry, but there was a lot of issue there. Once that sort of thought takes hold, then we do not get people coming into employment as apprentices to be trained in the job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EIt is very, very important that at least 20 percent of employers train apprentices. We work on the old 80:20 rule, but sadly we are not seeing that happen today. Too many employers look at the risks associated with the Employment Relations Act when taking on somebody, and they just do not do it. We have seen an exponential growth in that practice, which will have to be addressed in a very intelligent way, and it will be up to the National Government to do it, so as to be able to find ways through it. This bill is one of the first steps in achieving it. We are now seeing a lot of contracting out for services by businesses. Although that is a commercial decision, we could say, it is part of the impacts of the risk and the worry for a small to medium sized enterprise when taking on people whom the employer is not too sure of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EI will just put that thought there for the moment, as it is something that we cannot overlook. We do not want to dismiss it as ideological thinking and notional. It is something that this House needs to seriously consider. We have heard a lot of talk today about section 67, and that is appropriate. Effectively that is the present provision covering a probationary period, and when we check through it we see that it is reasonably prescriptive but not overly prescriptive. I would have to say\u2014putting myself in the place of a person who is working in the business and not necessarily on the business\u2014that it is hugely onerous. Working with a shovel in one hand and trying to wrestle off crocodiles and sharks with the other, through the grievance process, is not something one would welcome this side of Christmas. I am very, very supportive of this move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003ELet us consider the way the Employment Relations Act came to the House. It went to a select committee. Six hundred submissions were heard on the legislation at that time. When the vote was taken at the select committee, it was split 50:50. We have had to experience an interesting change. When the legislation was introduced into the House, there was an organised theatre of demonstration outside the House\u2014an orchestrated ceremony. Today all we have is the Opposition members on the other side of the Chamber whingeing, moaning, whining, and trying to fabricate something that is not a problem at the moment. If it does become a problem, then we can be sure that members on this side of the House will address it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003ELet us turn further into the bill and to something that has not been talked about all that much\u2014section 120 of the Employment Relations Act. Although members talk about the probationary period, there is the other side of the coin, which is the process of terminating an employment relationship. On that basis it is incredibly onerous, and that is the point that is made in this bill\u2014the status quo and the problem. The explanatory note in the bill talks about the status quo and the problem: \u201CAt present there are no provisions for trial periods that exclude\u201D\u2014and I make that point\u2014\u201Cthe employee from raising a personal grievance for reasons of unjustified dismissal.\u201D That is pretty straightforward. At present there is no provision to employ people without the risk that if they are dismissed, they can take a personal grievance case against the employer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EJust imagine, if one ever had the privilege of being self-employed, having to wait in fear and trepidation for 60 days that one may be asked to put in writing, within 14 days, the reasons why the employment was terminated. The average among us here might say that that is not too hard a request; it is pretty reasonable. It can appear to be very reasonable in an ideological world, but in the real world, at the coalface, it is incredibly onerous. As the ACT Party member said previously, when we break it all down, of the number of cases that were brought forward and that he acted on in respect of employment grievances, 80 percent were brought by employees with a length of service of 1 to 4 years, 5 percent were by employees with 10 or more years of service, and 3 percent by those with service of 7 to 9 months. So that leaves a fair structure within the Labour Party of 3 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EI put it to members that the value of this bill, when read within the context of the Employment Relations Act, provides adequate and sufficient safeguards for the employee and the employer. We should also bear in mind, if someone is in any doubt, that both sides of the relationship have to agree to this 90-day provision. That is reasonable. Employees also continue to be protected by the Employment Relations Act provisions. We talked about human rights the other day. Employees still have protection under those provisions and, barring personal grievances, they have access to mediation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EWhen we read this bill in the context of the Employment Relations Act, I can put my hand on my heart and say that members on this side of the House are very, very strongly in support of it, that the small to medium sized enterprises within New Zealand are strongly in support of it, and that it will work for the many, many people who have to re-enter employment or who are entering it for the first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EAt lunchtime somebody from the other side raised a question with me in passing. They asked me why we do not include shearers in the provision. Well, fortunately, because shearers are a scarce commodity today, they can get a job wherever they want. However, a lot of the other trades are not in such a privileged situation, and numerous parents, especially mothers\u2014it is mothers who seem to go into bat for their children\u2014have very strongly asked me why someone will not give their child a go. This bill does that very thing. So I encourage those members on the other side of the House to stop their blinkered thinking and to open up to the opportunities here. This National Government will take this country forward, and the first step\u2014even if it is only a small one\u2014is the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I speak in support of this bill and recommend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225a5cdece46124f7488caa6411a44a465\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d81e59fb2c7f424a88c071d5a833c70d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d81e59fb2c7f424a88c071d5a833c70d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table the report of the Labour Committee on the Employment Contracts Bill dated April 1991, which indicates that controversial legislation introduced after the election of a National Government in 1990 at least went to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da5ff7d1bdb949d888cb6c59cd7dafb6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that document to be tabled. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee0bc50bf0e94c4193b363cfdef65d5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee0bc50bf0e94c4193b363cfdef65d5a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Employment Relations Amendment Bill to be referred to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee for consideration, in order to allow proper parliamentary scrutiny and to acknowledge the democratic right of New Zealanders to make submissions on legislation, especially when it is controversial; and acknowledging that, anyhow, this bill does not come into effect until 1 April, so there is no reason why it should not go to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f4a159dae1541ec88f7ca99e2820459\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022832085c911c1408589d0700a88d770ff\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022 data-id=\u00229238e238c51948189d8abf693f4434cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229238e238c51948189d8abf693f4434cb\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cddb5f5359a14a6489ebef056cad154d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the second reading has to be called, does it not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220592538a08584f88bddfc5045bfb0373\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: What is your point of order, Mr Mallard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ccc72c4491f47f381e4f1c8336650fe\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think the Clerk called the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265c4099a56f048b9afbfe430b919b1e4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The Clerk advises me that she called it. Secondly, I said that the Employment Relations Amendment Bill is set down for second reading forthwith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccff2a9204a84fd8baf754874cdd505b\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: This bill addresses the Government\u2019s response to the need to assist employees and employers in small and medium-sized businesses in creating employment opportunities. This bill has been carefully and moderately drafted. It is not about taking away rights; it is about giving opportunities. Importantly, the bill maintains employees\u2019 rights. We have said in first reading speeches that employees can still raise a personal grievance under the discrimination provisions of the Employment Relations Act. Sexual or racial discrimination is not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9e891a9137f4858a623b1432c35b39d\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: How will you police that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be4f4ccd380f4a7a9a50840d9e5c2abe\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The bill maintains the right for personal grievances to be resolved using either the authority or the court in those situations, I say to Mr Cosgrove.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe bill specifically provides that the employer and employee may agree to a trial period only once. This bill is about helping employers to provide genuine opportunities for new employees. We have heard in first reading speeches talk of productivity, and I will read a quote from the Tauranga Chamber of Commerce from yesterday: \u201CThis is very positive news\u201D\u2014it is talking about the bill\u2014\u201Cfor both employers and employees, particularly smaller businesses. The key issue for our economy is productivity, and this bill goes a long way to ensuring the right people are in the right jobs. This bill is good for both parties and will result in much firmer employment relationships. The Tauranga Chamber of Commerce supported the bill because the 90-day period gives both parties time to gauge the fit of both employer and employee. Particularly important are the benefits to employees with no formal qualifications, who will have a better chance at obtaining skilled positions because they have a trial period to prove their capabilities. Employers who are considering taking on an extra staff member will be in a better position to trial the role and the impact on the business before confirming the position.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThis bill is a moderate bill. It has been prepared to protect the rights of employees. It has been prepared and drafted to give new employees the opportunity to say \u201CGive me a go; I will prove myself.\u201D and to get their foot in the employment door. We have added the protection that the trial period is to be established by agreement between the employer and employee. I would like to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022621456b8b39045718fc6ec8685354b52\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have sat here for an hour and listened to various contributions from members opposite. I think that you should take the opportunity to allow members opposite to listen to a speech from this side of the House, without their constant interruption and barracking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daf25b40f9e84cc390842878fff31742\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022624348c8b6d0478982dda3415e103d95\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not need any assistance. The member is responding to some of the points that were made in the first reading debate, and I think members could contain themselves a little more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db9676f22a02465483cab417e56c2a50\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In fairness, I think you were not at the last debate, where Nick Smith sat opposite\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2f8d8870c824a0da0b31ffcc47504a9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That point of order is out of order. I have already ruled on this matter. If the member has a new point of order he should raise it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022478a18178e434d35b84ac52fea777c4b\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022388e7e9ec2bb4895bee45842bdda7557\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet. The member will sit down, please. I have ruled on the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c7a7c42812047578f3e687075cb591d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask whether your ruling means that Ministers with weak voices get special treatment, because that appears to be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022121243eea260430ab5fa52bcaacfe0fb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not what I intended, nor said. All I have done is ask members to contain themselves a little more. That is not an unreasonable expectation from the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b911baf88cee408aa361e717a6a08e44\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to address some of the myths that have been enunciated both before and during this debate. One of those myths has been spread by one of the Labour affiliates, and it basically says that if the bill becomes law, workers employed at enterprises with fewer than 20 staff will lose the right to challenge an unfair dismissal during the first 90 days. This bill applies only to new employees. It will not affect existing employees, and the trial period is established only by agreement. So it is up to the new employee to say \u201CGive me a trial period.\u201D The bill will not affect the rights of existing employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThroughout the debate the member from the Green Party, Sue Bradford, has mentioned what happens to those on benefits. I mentioned in my first reading speech that beneficiaries who leave the benefit to go on a trial period will not face a stand-down if they go back on the benefit. I want to enunciate and reiterate that point, which is actually contained in the question and answer sheet we have put out. That document specifically states: \u201CEmployees on a trial period, if they were previously on a benefit or if they receive assistance post-redundancy in a new package to be announced before Christmas by the Minister of Social Development, will not face a stand-down if they go back on a benefit or onto the post-redundancy assistance, unless they have been dismissed for misconduct, or have chosen to end the trial themselves without good reason\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EWe see this bill as giving opportunities. It is not only giving businesses the confidence to take on new employees; it is also giving prospective employees the opportunity to say \u201CI want to get off the benefit. I haven\u2019t got experience. Please give me a try.\u201D We think that that is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EI will also address the issue of why it is important that this legislation is passed as a matter of priority. I refer to the Christchurch Press editorial of today, which states: \u201Cthe Government is also well aware that the global economic crisis means the country will no longer be able to coast along on a wave of externally generated prosperity while economic fundamentals at home, particularly growth in productivity, slump precipitously. \u2026 It is, in any event, a good bill to get passed into law as soon as possible. The vast bulk of business in New Zealand is conducted by small and medium-sized enterprises. As they are at the moment, the laws governing employment are a powerful disincentive to anyone thinking of hiring a new worker but uncertain as to his or her capacity for the job. At present, if an employee turns out to be unsuitable an employer who wishes to dismiss him or her risks having to deal with the whole time-consuming, complex and expensive apparatus of the law governing dismissals. The risk of distraction from the core job of running a business and incurring large costs may make an employer hesitate. This can be particularly the case with employees who may be worth taking a chance on but whose backgrounds indicate potential difficulties.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe editorial further goes on to reiterate the safeguards we have put in place: \u201CBut National proposes safeguards to prevent abuses, and the time and effort employers must spend to advertise for and hire employees make it highly unlikely that they will misuse the system. It should also be remembered that trial periods were once commonplace without causing any great difficulties. The benefits to be gained will far outweigh any possible disadvantages.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EI will also refer to the previous consultation. The legislation has been consulted on; it has gone to a select committee. There were 619 submissions. At the end of the day the vote at the select committee was tied and therefore lost. This bill has been extensively consulted on, and if one looks at the submissions opposing the bill, one will see that they talk about benefit entitlements. National has addressed that issue. Those submissions talk of employees being reluctant to change jobs if they were subject to a probation period, which particularly applied to jobs that require relocation. That is why we have the provision that establishes trial periods by agreement. We recognise that this will not be suitable for all new employees, and we recognise that it will not be suitable for all employees wishing to relocate. That is why the trial period is to be established by agreement between the employer and the employee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EAnother concern raised at the time was in relation to discrimination grounds. We have specifically retained the grounds and the protections under discrimination provisions. At that time the Opposition said that the bill would also allow employers to engage employees on a series of probationary periods. Even if one could fathom why an employer would do that, and have an 89-day rollover period, one would know that that would be expensive and not a practical or sensible solution. We have specifically provided, in our bill, that an employee is one who has not been previously employed by that employer. So an employer cannot use it as an 89-day rollover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002223790405d4924bceb19fcddaaa3bc36d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223790405d4924bceb19fcddaaa3bc36d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E In light of the Minister\u2019s denial of her relationship with the Exclusive Brethren, I seek to table an article from the Christchurch Press of 29 November 2006\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7cbcee0ef54490191d724ca61c2119f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7cbcee0ef54490191d724ca61c2119f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022 data-id=\u00228f5809ed68cc4adfadd8f0f87c66bebb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f5809ed68cc4adfadd8f0f87c66bebb\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a personal explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ba8961b42314115aaf0c383b2c5f3d4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for the Minister to make a personal explanation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7357c7fa0de4f9e97de21e540941b77\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Assistant Speaker, before we deny leave it is traditional for members to state the subject of the personal explanation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d9b16024b05407bafdc8c3c2bc00634\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is in reference to the previous Minister of Labour\u2019s deliberate misrepresentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022637788baac65441dac26699fd04abd0b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2e652bb866e4cd199b878b6c7c52f67\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there is\u2014put it nicely and you will get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ccedcd627c346c9ae7cfebe61647340\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet! Members will be silent. When leave is sought to make a personal statement, we are not going to get into these across-the-benches kinds of interjections. So leave was sought; it was denied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u00222db4396874d548e3a5cfd542e19cb2ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222db4396874d548e3a5cfd542e19cb2ee\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I make it clear to the member that I will not object to her making a personal explanation if she does not, as part of that, accuse me of breaching privilege, which she has just done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f39710be81ee45f5a9a11dbc72d94f0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f39710be81ee45f5a9a11dbc72d94f0a\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a personal explanation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227550c410d3564c79bef8d105f55371cc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d537b68909734393b6b3a9f200ccfacf\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in relation to the Press article, quoted by the previous Minister of Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc6495f8c75415bb15b8fd5ac6fe190\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I put the leave, I will say that the Chair will be the judge of whether there is any breach of the leave once it is granted. I will put the leave. Is there anyone who has objection to that course of action? There is not. Leave is granted for a personal explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdeb990ae06a45ffae426118c8385c17\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: As many will know, prior to my career as a member of Parliament I was a solicitor for some 25 years. During that time I acted for many clients. Some of those clients may have been members of religious groups; some of them were not. I have acted in the past for members of Parliament who are not even members of the National Party; that does not mean that I am a part of those other political parties. I have also acted for bullies, but I have never in my life acted for Trevor Mallard or Clayton Cosgrove. I can say categorically that I have not acted for the Exclusive Brethren church. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd539970873349ca960feba06ccf2432\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd539970873349ca960feba06ccf2432\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take offence to those remarks; they should not have been part of a personal explanation. I think, Mr Assistant Speaker, you are aware of that. It should be ruled out, and she should be asked to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020eac3031b14c43a7b37ece0556306e\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239f9798337ff4c7d9bf74d35a3343a6f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I did say that I would be the judge, and the member did breach that. The apology has been given and the matter now rests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022aab7ca91fd5f4480899e3319a562579a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aab7ca91fd5f4480899e3319a562579a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E This is an outrageous bill, and it has been processed in an outrageous way by a Minister who clearly spent too much time with her Exclusive Brethren clients, and who has been overly influenced by them in her approach to this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party will oppose this bill; it will attempt to amend the bill to make it more reasonable. I already have a draft that will stop Anne Tolley from becoming a liar, and I will make that available to the House during the Committee stage. Anne Tolley made a commitment on video that this measure would not apply to teachers. We are trying to save her back and stop her from becoming a liar in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe other point I make, in order for officials to have a good look at the bill, is to ask them to look at the clause that purports to make it clear that people dismissed in these circumstances have a right to mediation. Unfortunately, the bill as drafted makes it clear that employees have a right to mediation. People who have been dismissed are not employees, and, therefore, will not have rights to mediation. I ask the Minister to get some advice on that particular question. We will be drafting amendments to attempt to correct that as well, so that we will try to stop the Minister from becoming a liar in that particular circumstance. We will work on that issue in order to see whether we can get to the point where we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a077574410714aadaf7b871c8d943b0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ba9af59ad8c45558b2b832837081226\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Dave would have told them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5ae9ffe66124b61a38ca717a77046c2\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, a select committee would have sorted it out fairly well. I think it is fair to say that generally the Department of Labour has done a very good job on the drafting of bills, and in terms of parliamentary counsel there has been a long tradition of Walter Iles being involved. But I am sure that his advice, and the officials\u2019 advice to a previous Government would never have been to put a bill like this through under urgency, because that is how mistakes are made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI go back to the fundamental question, and ask whether this legislation is necessary. The answer is that it is not, because we already have probationary periods; lots of people have probationary periods, and that works very well now. I make another point, more so as the spokesperson on economic development than as the spokesperson on labour\u2014that this measure will dampen down the ability of people to shift from job to job and to come to New Zealand. If someone knows that the deal is to sign up for a temporary job, then why would that person leave a $100,000-a-year job to go to a $105,000-a-year job, when he or she might get a \u201Cdo not come on Monday\u201D notice within 90 days. Why would someone shift jobs for a marginal increase in money? Why would someone go to a job where he or she can be more productive? Why would someone come to New Zealand, having been offered a job but knowing that the employer could sack that person for no reason, without even giving the person a note to say why\u2014the employer does not even have to put a reason in writing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI ask why the Government is pushing so hard in this area. I think it is fair to say that is traditional. National would not feel like a proper Tory Government if it did not attack workers in its first week in office. I do not understand why members opposite hate workers so much. I really do not understand why they feel an obligation, within a week of getting into Parliament, to do something that undermines workers in that way. It is fair to say that out on the hustings a lot of those members were more reasonable than they are being now. It may be something to do with group dynamics. They get together here, they infect each other, they turn into more rabid Tories than they are out on the hustings, and, in the end, they feel that they must kick the workers\u2014those who generally vote for Labour\u2014in the teeth, in order to make them see who is in Government now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI reiterate the very clear advice of the Bank of New Zealand in its overview of its weekly report that was issued yesterday. It said: \u201CIf businesses think light is appearing for the economy they can hire on the off chance they are right. \u2026 But if they are wrong, and things deteriorate anew they can shed the staff and sit waiting again for the upturn.\u201D Well, what kind of an approach to people is that? I can see it is the approach of the National Party. I think it is very sad that a major bank\u2014one that used to be a New Zealand bank, and is now an Australian bank\u2014is making it clear that it thinks one can take people on in the upturn and flick them off on the downturn, and that will have no consequences whatsoever. That is very, very sad and I regret it a lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003ETrial periods are something that many of us have used when we have employed staff. It is often the way when young people come into jobs. They often have trial periods, better known as probationary periods, and in the entire time that I have been a member of Parliament I have not had anyone come to me and say a probationary arrangement has not worked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022778703c36e6e40bab5e7ee07c944e488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f192e129a6974415a05274a055785f17\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Who would come up to you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264b8a14cbccd48f2b859a6e83476f888\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: As a member of Parliament, dozens of people come to me every day. I visit businesses in the electorate every week, and their problem is actually the opposite of that. Even with the current anxiety around the economy, the problem is at the other end: hiring staff, especially with adequate skills to do the job. The problem is one of finding the staff with the necessary skills, sometimes finding the capital\u2014[Interruption] The member over there says we should abandon training, and employ people who do not have the skills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022732545a5902f460f9f4ab2a92a4daab7\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239f8f47fd968449bba7f2f9b248787ad\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: That is a Tremain approach, that is a Hawke\u2019s Bay approach, and that, I think, is the approach of a number of Tories who have not really thought carefully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe member had a very large real estate company. Probably the people were contractors, but he almost certainly had a few people that were employed\u2014quite a lot of people who were employed. Did the member have problems sacking them when they did not work out? Did he ever try a probationary period? No, there is not a murmur, not a word, not a whisper from the member opposite. He knows that it is not a problem. He has been a relatively big employer in his time, and he is telling the House he has not had problems. I heard that the member was quite a good employer, and most good employers do not have problems at all. But what we are doing here is passing legislation for ratbag employers: those who are not prepared to put a bit of time into the employment practices, who are not prepared to put a bit of time, effort, and energy into hiring staff, who are not prepared to do the training that is necessary, and who do not care about the human relations aspect of employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI think it is sad that the member who has been overly influenced by her Exclusive Brethren clients has got to the point where they are dictating the legislation that is coming to the House. My only question is why she does not wear a scarf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022 data-id=\u00224638b7ce473c47dea7e0dba949486245\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224638b7ce473c47dea7e0dba949486245\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I have to say that the last speaker, the Hon Trevor Mallard, is living in some kind of alternative reality, based on the hogwash he was saying and on the extraordinary cloth-cap socialist dogma he was trotting out\u2014something from at least 80 years ago. Frankly, that kind of speech should be treated with the ridicule it deserves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EI ask whether the member on the other side of the House is completely unaware that only two countries in the entire OECD do not have trial periods of the sort being put forward in the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. Members on the other side of the House always talk about Scandinavia\u2014that it is the miracle place, and that it has the most advanced social legislation, the most progressive workers\u2019 rights, and so forth. Well, I have news for members on the other side: those countries all have probation periods. In fact, this bill is, in large measure, modelled on some of those probation periods. They have chosen a period of 90 days. Other countries actually have a probation period of 6 months. Some have 1 year. Britain used to have 2 years, then it reduced it to 1 year. Australia has 6 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EI drafted a bill not dissimilar to this one some 2\u00BD years ago. I deliberately chose 90 days because it was at the most moderate end of appropriate trial periods. My intent was to reach out to New Zealanders, whether they were employers or employees, and say that this was a fair approach to the issue. It was not 1 year or 6 months, but 90 days, and it was voluntary at that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EWe just heard the previous speaker say that under this legislation no one would want to go from a job\u2014and he actually used this example\u2014paying $100,000 to one paying $105,000. I guess all his friends have jobs like that. I ask whether he really thinks that none of those people have the ability to negotiate and say that they have 20 years\u2019 experience in a particular field and have a lot of references. Those people can tell the employer that they do not need the 90-day trial period in this particular case, and that if he or she puts it in, then they will not take the job. That is the nature of the negotiations that we expect. I would be surprised indeed if there was any 90-day period in the educational sector involving the New Zealand Educational Institute and the Post Primary Teachers Association. The truth is that negotiations will happen in appropriate circumstances but not in other circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EOne of the extraordinary things that members opposite are arguing is that because of this legislation people will not come to New Zealand. They say that the people of, let us say, South-east Asia, India, or the People\u2019s Republic of China will think that if there is a 90-day probationary period in New Zealand, they will be going to some sort of hellhole where workers have absolutely no rights at all and can be treated in a completely cavalier way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a077574410714aadaf7b871c8d943b0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022528ed0c6b7a54f71bf5e0ac052d03262\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227715ec6b227f48dea24566c7a434b9d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Do people know what those members said? They said \u201CThat\u2019s right.\u201D Alternative reality, here we come! It is visited on the Labour Party\u2014that kind of statement certainly demonstrates that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EThe people who want this most are, in fact, new immigrants. The most important thing for them is to get their foot in the door. They want to say to employers to take a chance on them, and if it does not work out in 90 days, then there is not too much risk. There is the possibility of mediation, but employers will not be paying thousands of dollars in legal costs to go to the Employment Court, the Employment Relations Authority, and so forth. New immigrants want employers to take a chance. That is what they want. Because I represent North Shore I talk to huge numbers of immigrants; that is the nature of North Shore. Consistently they ask employers\u2014particularly if their English language skills are not quite all there yet, or if they have qualifications that New Zealand employers do not fully recognise, or, more accurately, do not understand\u2014to just give them that chance, and they will satisfy all of their concerns because of their work ethic and the skills that they will demonstrate in practice. Then the employer will say that it was worth hiring them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EThe 90-day period will help that group more than any other group in society. So why on earth would Labour seriously suggest\u2014as the junior whip, Steve Chadwick, apparently believes\u2014that this provision will turn immigrants off? Actually, they are probably the group that is most forthright in arguing for this provision. The other groups that will particularly benefit, I think, are people starting their first job. They are the ones who, again, say that they have a lot of skills and are really keen and enthusiastic, and want employers to just give them a go. They want to prove themselves to employers through the way they work. Some employers, particularly smaller employers, find it difficult to make the decision to hire someone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EWe have deliberately shifted this bill away from the one I introduced 2\u00BD years ago. In fact, the consideration by the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee of the hundreds of submissions led to quite significant changes. One of those changes was to ensure that there would be written warnings. Another way was to ensure that there would be mediation. Another way was to ensure that human rights discrimination, which I had originally said would be dealt with through the Human Rights Review Tribunal, would stay with the Employment Court and the Employment Relations Authority. There was never any suggestion that fundamental human rights would not be covered by a process of litigation, but the view was taken to keep the process within the Employment Relations Authority and the Employment Court rather than put it with the Human Rights Review Tribunal. I thought that was a fairly logical approach. Those adjustments were made, and they are entirely reflected in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EA further adjustment is very important, as well: the probation period is available to employers who employ 20 people or fewer. That is very deliberate. We know\u2014and a lot of evidence on this issue was presented at the select committee, as well\u2014that larger employers get a lot of advice on the way that they employ people. They have human resources consultants and all that sort of thing. In addition, when they take on a new person, it might be one person in 25\u20144 percent of the workforce. If things do not work out, it does not have a huge impact, really, in terms of the business as a whole. But if a small employer with five employees takes on one person, then that person is 20 percent of the business, and that is very significant. It is very significant if that person does not work out\u2014if the person is overly disruptive, does not fit into the team, or does not have the appropriate skills. It does not affect just that one person; it affects everyone else in that organisation. That is why we have proposed the limitation of this measure to smaller employers. Not only is there the issue of having human resources consultants and all those sorts of things but also there is the issue of scale\u2014the impact on a very small business of a person whose placement does not quite work out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EI have to ask myself why on earth Labour is spending so much energy on opposing this bill. Does it not just make those members look a bit ridiculous? Does it not just confirm to the New Zealand public why they are in Opposition and why, on the basis of their performance to date, they are likely to stay in Opposition for some considerable time? This is a reasonable measure. It has been pitched at the lowest end of the OECD scale\u2014at 90 days. We have ensured that there are mediation and human rights processes in the bill. People will not lose a job\u2014and should not lose a job\u2014because they are pregnant, or something of that nature. That would be fundamentally wrong and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da21443040be487da6ad17559520d981\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CShould not.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a66b5bb725a24a78961016e253ff1cf6\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: People will not, in fact, because people will immediately have rights through the Employment Relations Authority to deal with that. They will have rights through the authority, just as they do now. That will not change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EI tell members opposite to look at the practice of the other modern democracies that we always compare ourselves with. If it is good enough for them, with all of them doing far better than New Zealand in terms of growth and prosperity, then surely we need to match it. This is a sensible, reasonable, and appropriate proposition to help New Zealand get going. That is why this Government was voted into office: to help New Zealand get going. That means all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022 data-id=\u00220ebbf9a8d3654d96abfcf439da0d92ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ebbf9a8d3654d96abfcf439da0d92ee\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E If the Employment Relations Amendment Bill is such a reasonable, sensible, and incredibly good bill, then why does the National Government not put it before a select committee and show the rest of New Zealand how good it is? The National members should be proud to put it into the select committee process and let every New Zealander know exactly what is in it and have a say on it. Then they could show people how good the bill is and trumpet it all around New Zealand. But no, here we are under urgency, with a party now in Government whose members previously said, when members on this side of the House were in Government, we were usurping democracy right, left, and centre, yet the first act those members do with a bill is to remove it from the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EEarlier in the debate I heard the exchange between the Minister of Labour and Mr Mallard about the Exclusive Brethren and illegal representation. As a Christchurch member of Parliament, all I can say is that I hope one of the constituents or clients the new Minister of Labour then had was not the one who took up a fictitious address in my electorate and a fictitious name, and who took out full-page advertisements in local newspapers, including the Christchurch Star, on the day before the election, accusing me of murder and mayhem at the Christchurch Hospital. I hope that person was not one of the new Minister\u2019s clients then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThe proposal for a 90-day trial period is, by its very nature, a complex idea. That is because it changes the basic relationship between employers and employees. I heard someone shout across the Table: \u201CWhere are the employers?\u201D. Well, I have been one of them for 15 years in my own manufacturing and engineering company. Around 700,000 people change their jobs every year, and two-thirds of them work for small businesses, so literally hundreds of thousands of people will be affected by this bill. That is one of the reasons that it should be referred to a select committee. Because so many people will be affected, the law will almost certainly have perverse effects and unintended consequences. If the Government does not allow full scrutiny of the bill by a select committee, it will almost certainly fall into the trap of causing such consequences to come into effect. Let me give members a couple of examples of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EI just heard the previous speaker say that this measure would especially be of benefit to immigrants. Let me give members the example of an immigrant who gets a 2-year work permit to come to New Zealand, and part of the reason the person gets the immigration approval is that he or she has a 2-year work permit. The immigrant goes into a job, and after 30 days he or she is fired. Where does the person go then? He or she will end up at the social welfare department, claiming an unemployment benefit. The members of the party that is now in Government used to rail against that happening, yet they are now telling us this bill is great for immigrants. I ask, who in their right mind would move their whole family to New Zealand with a 2-year work permit, under a law that says they could be fired within 30 days? And what would a migrant do then? That makes a mockery of the immigration laws, for a start. We can see the scamsters lining up with schemes right now. They will be handing out job offers by the hundreds, and letting people take up those jobs. With full legal authority, they will then fire the immigrants, who will pop down to social welfare offices and register for the dole. That is just one thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003ELet me give members another example. What happens to someone who has been in a job for 10 years, and who switches jobs and is fired after 40 days? That will be a disincentive for people to change jobs. One of the things we want is productivity in New Zealand. Sometimes people are in the wrong job and would be much better in another one, but if they were to leave that job they would leave the sanctuary of having any kind of protection under the law for the first 90 days of a new job. I ask how that helps productivity. It will not happen all the time\u2014of course it will not. There are many, many good employers; they are the overwhelming majority. But I lay odds that it will happen all right, and we will see examples of that as we go along. That contributes to a stagnating economy, not a productive one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EI can think of better ways to achieve the Government\u2019s ends without getting such perverse outcomes as that, and so would many other people if they had the chance to make submissions to a select committee. Those are the sorts of details that come up when there is an adequate opportunity to scrutinise bills in a select committee. I thought we had moved past this situation. This is probably one of the benefits, or disadvantages, of having been here in the House for a long time, but I can remember when Governments used to ignore select committees. They used to tell members not to worry about submissions, to just get a bill back here to the House without change, and we would press on. This Government is actually short-circuiting that process by not even referring bills to the select committee in the first place, and that is going back to the really bad days. There are details that, as I say, come up when bills are examined carefully through a select committee consideration process. When we make laws unnecessarily under urgency in this way, we very often make mistakes\u2014bad ones\u2014and everyone knows that. I am sure members opposite do too; such mistakes are well proven in our parliamentary system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EWe have one of the best select committee systems in the world. I have been in a Commonwealth parliamentary group that wrote a book about select committees and public consultation in Parliament, and New Zealand came out at almost No. 1 in the Commonwealth in terms of its select committee process. This is not one of the great days for supporting that process. We have that select committee process, firstly, because we have one of the flattest legislative systems in the world. It is a unicameral Parliament. There is no second Chamber, and we do not have separately elected executives and legislatures, so our checklist is the select committee process. That is our constitutional protection, and this Government is avoiding it. It is avoiding it for no good reason, because this bill presumably does not come in until 1 April, so even a peremptory period of consideration by a select committee is possible. In its first act in this Chamber, the Government is denying that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EWe have a select committee process, secondly, because we have strengthened it over time not because Governments have discovered some pixie dust of select committee scrutiny, but because Governments have recognised that we make better law and get a better political process by doing so. Select committee hearings allow bills like this one to be changed in order to fix unforeseen problems\u2014and I will bet members there will be some in this bill. I have named only a couple of them, but I bet there will be other problems that have not been mentioned and would have been if the bill had gone to a select committee. If Governments do not refer their legislation to select committees, they are back here in a month or two or three, either amending bills after they have been passed, or defending the indefensible. Those Governments are put in a position where bad things start to happen and, because they do not want to admit they have made a mistake, they start to defend the indefensible. If that happens within months of being elected, that is a slippery slope that you will go down\u2014I mean to say the Government, not you, Mr Assistant Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EOne way or another, the Government will regret not sending this bill to a select committee. In my view, it is a mark of a mediocre and weak Government that it is so lacking in confidence in its ideas that it is too frightened to put them before the scrutiny of a select committee. The more that Government members say how great this bill is, the more we wonder why they are not prepared to open it for scrutiny. There is no reason why this bill needs to be passed under urgency\u2014none whatsoever. There is no reason why it needs to be passed without select committee hearings, and that raises the question of why on earth the Government is doing that. Has some kind of secret commitment been given to somebody? There is no reason to do this. If the bill returned from a select committee without amendment because it is such a brilliant and flawless piece of law, the Government would be able to take great credit for that. So why does the Government not refer the bill to a select committee? I think it is because this process admits to an arrogance and a weakness on the part of this Government that augurs pretty poorly for the outcome for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EI raise one more issue. The bill requires that those people who are in KiwiSaver get their employer contributions on top of their existing pay. People who opt into joining KiwiSaver could face being fired under the 90-day rule when they tell the boss they want a superannuation contribution. Do members think that will happen often? No, I do not think it will. But I certainly think it will happen, and we will be staring down the barrel of that. That is what we have employment laws for, not because most employers are bad employers. In fact, bad employers are relatively rare. But bad employers do exist, and we need to protect people from their exploitative behaviour. The beauty of the select committee process is to raise those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcb11bd8487b43abab02a20751ff8d9b\u0022\u003EThis bill is further evidence, if we needed it, that the Government is focused not on the business measures we need in order to increase our economic performance\u2014because this bill will not help that; actually, it will make it worse\u2014but on mean-spirited ideas that are all about shifting around the way the cake is cut up, instead of growing it. If the Government was really serious about productivity, it would be encouraging employers to do everything they can in the first 90 days of employment to make sure that people are trained, educated, and helped to do a good job. Then they would not have to worry about the silly nonsense we have here. This bill is all about the balance between employers and employees, not about growing a pool of prosperity from which both can draw. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf20c7d88d4a43deb37b43cd506e5a6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf20c7d88d4a43deb37b43cd506e5a6c\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E As members may have noted when I spoke earlier during the first reading debate on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, one of the main concerns the Green Party has about this legislation is the way in which there is no obvious or visible protection for workers who are laid off under the 90-day provision, and who then will, at least in some cases, be subject to the 13-week stand-down at Work and Income. Both the Minister of Labour, Kate Wilkinson, and Dr Nick Smith have indicated that in fact this is not the intention of the Government, but I have seen nothing in the explanatory note of the bill or in the content of the bill itself to provide any reassurance on this matter. The Green Party would like to see the bill amended to ensure that someone who is dismissed during the 90-day period cannot be subjected to the 13-week stand-down mandated by section 60H of the Social Security Act. I will be lodging a Supplementary Order Paper to this effect during the Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThe Minister has since, in her second reading speech and in a media release, indicated that it is clearly not her intention to force people into the stand-down period, and I am very relieved by that. However, there is still nothing in the documentation so far to give me any assurance that this will not happen. For example, the press release frequently asks questions, and talks about people not facing a stand-down unless they have been dismissed for misconduct. The problem with this is that under the new legislation there is no legal grievance process, so there is no way of establishing who is right or wrong when it comes to a disputed situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EI will give an example of how this might work. Let us say that David is employed as a barista in the caf\u00E9 down the road, and after 2 months the boss sacks him because he reckons he might have given free coffees to a mate. That is misconduct. He tells David this and sends him on his way. David goes to Work and Income to apply for the unemployment benefit. Work and Income asks him and the employer why he has been dismissed. The employer tells Work and Income that it is because of misconduct, and that is that\u2014David has no income for 13 weeks. However, David disputes the situation and says he never gave away free coffees and that he was not fired for misconduct but for no reason at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EAt this point, how will Work and Income judge the facts of the case? David cannot go to the Employment Relations Authority or to the Employment Court to get a ruling from them, and I doubt that the Work and Income case manager would want to spend hours, if not days, determining the rights and wrongs of the situation. In fact, it is far more likely, from my experience in dealing with the department, that in most cases the case manager will simply take the employer\u2019s word for what happened in the situation\u2014that it was misconduct\u2014and David will end up destitute and ultimately probably a drain on our criminal justice and/or health budgets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003E A second issue in this area is that, as far as I can see, there is no requirement under the new law for an employer to actually give the employee any reason at all for his or her dismissal. Thus, when individuals turns up at Work and Income and are asked why they were sacked, again it will be up to the good will or otherwise of the case officer on duty to determine whether they should be subject to the 13-week stand-down period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EIn her speech just a short while ago while discussing this very issue, the Minister attempted to clarify the Government\u2019s approach when she said that they did not intend that beneficiaries going into work, or those who would be later eligible for the new redundancy assistance, which the Government is evidently going to bring in before Christmas, will be subject to the 13-week stand-down, unless they are dismissed for misconduct. Well, OK, sort of; and I welcome that further clarification from Ms Wilkinson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EBut what about all those employees who are in their first 90 days on the job but who are not on a benefit when they go into a job? Most new employees are in fact not on the benefit when they start in a new job. They will have come from another job, or they will have come from a school, a training institution, or a university. Many of them are not on the benefit at all. And what about all those other workers who will not have been on the benefit but who also will not be eligible for the Government\u2019s planned redundancy assistance? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EAlthough of course I have no idea about the details of what the Government is planning, we were told by National during the election that there were going to be quite a few restrictions around who would be eligible for the new redundancy package, including one that said that only those who are laid off after 5 years in the workforce would be eligible. If that is still to be the case, of course a whole group of employees who have been in the workforce for less than 5 years would again miss out on this protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EI think this whole imbroglio of uncertainty, loopholes, and glaring gaps in application, or potential application, just on this one comparatively little issue of the stand-down period, is a very clear demonstration of why a bill of this complexity and significance should go through the whole select committee process. If we had had a chance to receive advice from officials, to hear submissions from organisations and groups that have expertise in this very complex area\u2014if we MPs had had a chance to debate and consider these problems\u2014then this bill would be a whole lot better, and we would have a chance to work together across the House to try to deal with something that is going to be really serious for those affected once this bill goes through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThe administration of our welfare system is a bureaucratic nightmare. It is a morass of accretions of regulation and law that overall is not geared ultimately to err in the best interests of beneficiaries when there is any doubt or confusion about a particular situation. For this reason, and given the Government\u2019s concern, which I welcome, that people should not be unfairly subjected to the 13-week stand-down, I call on the National Party and other parties in the House to support my proposed amendments. If the amendments are not properly drafted or quite right\u2014and very likely that will be the case because of the very short time we have had to draft them\u2014I welcome the Government\u2019s support in redrafting and putting up better amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThe National members also keep talking about how this 90-day trial period is going to be by agreement. They seem to neither care nor understand the total imbalance of power that characterises the relationship between an employer and someone applying for a job. As I discussed earlier in the House today, this is one of the most vulnerable moments in a worker\u2019s relationship with his or her employer. Most people who are keen, if not absolutely desperate, for a job, will agree to anything in order to get it, even if they are deeply unhappy about the required conditions of employment that they are being asked to sign up to. This imbalance is only made worse when other factors enter the picture, such as migrants desperate for a New Zealand job and without good English language skills, perhaps young workers who are often very intimidated in these kinds of situations, or people who have disability or illness issues, or criminal issues, who are very much on the back-foot when they enter that situation and are trying to get work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThis bill is not about providing some kind of lovely social service to poor unfortunate migrants, ex-prisoners, and youth, as some Government speakers have sought to portray it in the House today. Giving people a chance at a job and then taking it away again through dismissal at will without legal protections actually deepens the exploitation of the many in our society who struggle at the low and most powerless end of the job market. I am sure that once this bill goes through we will start hearing some really sad stories from people who thought they were being given a great opportunity to enter the workforce. For example, what about ex-prisoners or migrants finally getting a job\u2014very happy, self-esteem suddenly boosted, all their dreams coming true\u2014then 1, 2, or 3 months into the job they are dismissed without reason, or without apparent reason, and find themselves back on the scrapheap? At this point they are unemployed again. There are a whole bunch of new issues to deal with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EIt is bad enough being out of work, but being sacked without reason is even worse. Dismissal often leads to feelings of despair and a massive loss of self-esteem. When this happens to people who are already struggling with other issues in their lives, the outcomes can be devastating. I spent 16 years of my life working with people in these kinds of situations. I predict that once this law takes effect and some of our less scrupulous employers start using it mercilessly, there will be a number of casualties. People will revert to crime or become seriously drug and alcohol addicted and suffer other health problems. They will face family breakdown, and, in some cases, people actually do take their own lives in these kinds of situations. It is a real pity that this Government does not seem to understand the human impacts of what they are doing here. However, it is even worse if they do comprehend those impacts and are going ahead with it anyway. Ultimately, it is people\u2019s very lives that are being played with here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022 data-id=\u00221912817a9b48424cbc4388e4ccd5a82e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221912817a9b48424cbc4388e4ccd5a82e\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to make a short contribution on the second reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. The picture being painted, particularly by Ms Bradford and others on the Labour side, is of most, if not all, employers. I notice that the only one who did not paint that picture was Mr Anderton, who has been an employer himself. But the story from the Opposition side has been almost universally about the horrid, horrid employer and the poor, victimised employee. Yes, that does happen, but we have heard no horror stories from the other side. Ms Bradford noted, I think correctly, that at the hiring stage there is an imbalance of power between employer and employee, and it is on the employer\u2019s side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216c1f6831ed1475fa5d70b3081aa089c\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201e401151be34d10b9074b73a3dd689d\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014I said that the balance of power is in favour of the employer. The employer, until he or she makes that magic decision and says \u201CYou\u2019re hired.\u201D, he or she, for whatever reason in his or her own head, can refuse to make the offer. The employer at that point\u2014up to when that hiring decision is made\u2014does indeed hold the balance of power. But once that decision is made, the balance of power shifts hugely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier in my first contribution, I have practised employment law for 15 years\u2014since it became a speciality\u2014mostly, in fact, representing employees successfully, very successfully. It was often a case of shooting fish in a barrel, because of hapless employers who got one little detail of the process wrong. That is all that was needed. For an aggressive employment lawyer, as I was, who knew my stuff, that is all that was needed. If the guy did not give 3 hours or a day to get legal advice\u2014bang, he was gone. If he made a decision too quickly, went and had a cup of tea out the back and did not leave it overnight\u2014bang, he was gone. We heard a story from Ms Dalziel, and who but a most hard-hearted person could not feel sympathy for the young fellow who went and took his life\u2014I am trusting that those facts are as stated\u2014of course, that is terrible. Who would wish that to happen? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EBut there are horror stories on the other side. I dealt with several of them and I know of many, many more. One that sticks in my mind is from a few years ago, and if I have got the facts not completely right I hope the House will forgive me, but this is largely correct. The owner and employer of a small rest home arrived late one night to check on the residents, and found one of the nurses badly affected by cannabis and residents lying in their own faeces and urine in their beds. The employer, to use the vernacular, went off her head and sacked the nurse on the spot. She, the employee, was gone right there. In the Employment Tribunal, as I think it was in those days, the referee had no difficulty at all saying that this was a substantively justified dismissal. In other words, there was every good reason to sack this person without notice. But process was not followed. The referee went further: the referee bent over backwards to try to be fair, and said that although this was an unjustified dismissal because of lack of process, the employee had contributed 75 percent, I think from memory, to her own misfortune. So whatever remedy was to be granted to her was reduced by 75 percent. But the employer still lost, because the employer, I think a company, had to pay 25 percent of $10,000 or $15,000\u2014I cannot remember\u2014plus 25 percent of the employee\u2019s legal costs, plus 100 percent of the company\u2019s own legal costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EI am not saying for one second that every employee is like this. Of course they are not. I have brought many personal grievance cases for employees that were entirely justified, and they got paid well out of them. But often it would be a case where, frankly, the employer had simply made one little mistake, and that weighs very heavily on employers when making a decision to employ, as I said in my first contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThis bill is in fact a very moderate bill. It protects employees for 90 days. As I said at the start of this contribution, Mr Anderton was the only speaker who acknowledged that there were bad employers and good employers. There are also bad employees and good employees. It is not difficult for a slacker to put on a good show for 90 days, and then suddenly on the 91st day\u2014bang. I acted for some\u2014I should be ashamed, I suppose\u2014\u201Cserial PGers\u201D, as we used to call them. They knew more about employment law than I did, and were intelligent people and well read. They would even tell me the latest case. I am not making this up. OK, they are a minority but they happen, and any employer who is properly advised is aware of that when he is thinking of hiring a new person. So the situation is not one-sided. It is not the poor, hapless, powerless employee and the horrid lord of the manor situation entirely. Like everything in life, it is not quite that simple.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003ETrial periods, as another speaker in the Government noted, are now common throughout the Western World. The media reported yesterday\u2014and I am not certain whether it is correct\u2014that only two countries in the OECD do not have trial periods where personal grievance procedures are precluded: Denmark and New Zealand. So we join the majority if this bill is passed in its present form. I understand that until 1998 all new public servants were required to serve trial periods with no redress for a minimum of 6 months and up to 2 years. Well, that would have saved a lot of money, would it not, on some of the bad decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThe other side said, quite rightly in my view, that a select committee process is desirable in most situations. But this bill, effectively, has already been there. It is a version of an earlier bill\u2014Dr Mapp\u2019s bill\u2014and incorporates, I understand, some of the several hundred submissions that were made to the select committee at that time. Effectively, the bill has already been scrutinised by a select committee; submissions were received. I understand that employers at that time were unanimous that this was a good idea in terms of promoting employment. In comparing the two bills I can see they are quite clearly different. But they do not need to have much difference to make quite a significant difference. It is like those words \u201Cshall\u201D and \u201Cmay\u201D in law. They are only single words but they make a world of difference. This bill, effectively, has already been scrutinised by a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EEmploying someone is a major decision for any business. It seems to me, a bit, as if the work expands to fit the time available in large firms, and the employing process can last 3 weeks, but for small businesses it is a major commitment. They do not have human resources departments normally, in my experience. Firms with nothing fewer than about 100 employees have human resources departments, but the human resources managers in small businesses are the owners. They have to set aside time to interview people, try to make an assessment, try to check references, make a judgment, and hope to hell they get it right, because if they do not they pay the penalty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EAs I said at the start of this contribution, I am quite firm in the view that after the hiring decision has been made, the power and balance shifts very much to the employee\u2019s side. The speakers on the other side said something like \u201CAll the employer needs to do is be fair.\u201D That is not so\u2014it takes only one small mistake of process. I think in 60, perhaps 70, percent of employment disputes where money is paid out through the Employment Relations Authority, the reason is process. The answer is generally that the decision is substantively justified but procedurally unfair, and that unfairness can be tiny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThis is not an unreasonable bill. It is a bill that will promote employment, and I would have thought that every member of the House would be inclined to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002266039ea8488d41b7b970bfcd1dae082a\u0022\u003EMaiden Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be093afd954745ceb7360d9eb1bd7edf\u0022\u003EMaiden Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022 data-id=\u00222499a0a8e8c5490f87a4ed98385aa5d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222499a0a8e8c5490f87a4ed98385aa5d6\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I congratulate you on your election to office. I speak to you today as the first-ever National member of Parliament for Auckland Central. I am conscious of the history that we have made in taking this seat for the first time. I would like to thank all of those people who helped on my campaign who made this victory possible. I thank the family of Alfred Kidd, the first Liberal Party member of Parliament for Auckland Central, who supported me during my campaign. Alfred left Parliament almost exactly 100 years ago and I acknowledge his contribution to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EI would like to congratulate New Zealand\u2019s 38th Prime Minister, the Hon John Key. The Prime Minister\u2019s legacy has already been to change the face of the National Party, and in doing so he has changed this Parliament and probably the future direction of this country. Our 38th Prime Minister will go down in New Zealand\u2019s history for forming a strong Government at lightning speed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge and thank the M\u0101ori Party. In supporting this National Government the M\u0101ori Party MPs have shown they are not bound by rigid left or right-wing ideology in their pursuit of better lives for all M\u0101ori. In an ability to work with both sides of the House the M\u0101ori Party has shown great leadership. I know as a nation we have a lot of work to do to help lift many M\u0101ori out of hardship, and often our debate focuses on that, but I want to take a moment to acknowledge all the M\u0101ori MPs in this House in the contribution they have made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EI acknowledge my colleagues and I thank the National Party for this tremendous opportunity. I am here only because of the hard work of former presidents of the National Party, including Michelle Boag and John Slater, the current president, Judy Kirk, and the other officers and MPs who worked so hard to build this party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EToday I want to share with you who I am and what I wish to achieve as the member of Parliament for Auckland Central and as a representative of the people of New Zealand. I am the person I am today because of my family and the values I have been taught. I believe in freedom, hard work, determination, courage, an ability to question and challenge, and a commitment to help those most in need. I work hard every day to try to be a person with these attributes. Born in 1980, I am a 1980s baby, and proud. As part of the first intake of the 1980s MPs, I am proud to represent the next generation of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EProbably one of the most defining moments of my life was when my parents split up, around the time of my seventh birthday. My heart goes out to all Kiwi kids out there who have been through this. Grappling with what feels like the loss of a parent, and often being highly suspicious of one that you are gaining, is not an easy thing to go through. However, I consider myself very lucky. Had it not been for this event, I would not have the diverse, bubbly, challenging, and sometimes maniac family I have today and I would not be who I am. With two half-brothers, four half-sisters, one stepbrother, a full brother, a full sister, a mum, a dad, and two current step-parents, created not by marriage but, rather, by convention, I have one full brood. I do not intend to name my siblings, as it would be hugely embarrassing to miss one out. They are all very special to me, and I want them to know that wherever I am they are a part of me, and I love them very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EIt is this interesting family make-up that has formed my belief about families and probably has made me the liberal being I am today. I am not judgmental about how families should be structured\u2014if it works, it works. I think that, regardless of who you are, whether you are bringing up a child as a parent, a grandparent, a dad and mum, two mums, or two dads, if you have the skills, love, and commitment to bring up a child, then I support you in what I am told is one of the most challenging and rewarding roles in life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EAt this point I want to acknowledge that there are limits to my liberal philosophy. P has caused massive heartbreak and destruction in my family. There are many families across New Zealand silently suffering with little support. In some instances, they wait anxiously, day by day, for the next car crash, theft, or violent event. My heart goes out to those families who are suffering because of P, and I am committed to working hard to get rid of this drug. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge my mum. My mum has devoted her life to Gen, Matty, Clinton\u2014my stepfather\u2014and me, and I am in absolute awe of her ability to perform mini-miracles and overcome so many hurdles. My mum\u2019s drive to deliver us opportunities that often seemed impossible to our reach has always inspired me. She scraped and borrowed to pay the school fees to give me a first-class education, she worked several jobs to support my sister, and I do not remember her ever complaining. In fact, I remember that she often had the energy to be an ear to some of the many people who passed through our house needing help. That constant ability to give to others in need is a value I cherish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EI thank my big sister for looking after me during those years when mum was by herself and working. I was not particularly grateful at the time, and I felt rather bossed around. But I think she did pretty well for an 11-year-old. My brother Matty is a legend, a great husband, and a great father. I thank my stepfather for instilling in me the values of hard work, through the wheelbarrows of sawdust I carted at a mere 10c a barrow, to earn some cash, and through barrowing away late into the evening. He would have expected nothing less. To my grandmother Micky, I say that if I ever had to work out where my determination came from, I have only to look at her sitting in the gallery. Three days after an accident and subsequent hip operation, she insisted on being wheeled in for this speech. Thank you for coming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EMy professional and academic background has been diverse. I have a Bachelor of Science degree from the University of Otago, majoring in genetics, and I hope to complete a law degree soon. My professional experience includes working in Parliament. The people who work here in Parliament often go on beyond the call of duty, and I thank them all for their service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003ELike many New Zealanders, I have done my OE. I moved to London in 2003 and came back last year. I have worked in central and local government, in transport and social policy roles overseas, and in the private sector in project management, where I ran a major information technology project for a financial institution. In my spare time I launched a company utilising Internet technology. It is this diverse public and private sector experience that I hope will give me some perspective and an open-minded approach to all the businesses and community organisations that I try to assist in my role as a member of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003ESince being a youngster I have always run and played sport. I am proud of my sporting achievements. For me, like many Kiwis, sport is not just a hobby; being physically active is a way of life. In my lifetime I would like to see New Zealand host an Olympic Games. For a nation with so many successful athletes, this would be a tremendous moment in our history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EI am fortunate to have travelled the world and I have had a great time doing it. I have represented the National Party as a vice chair of the International Young Democratic Union. In this role I met many young outstanding future leaders and members of Parliament. I have fought for the freedom of others, as the leader of the Belarus freedom campaign. I acknowledge those who do not have the freedom we have in New Zealand, and I am committed to continuing to work to raise awareness of the struggle of these people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EThough I am 28, I think I have crammed a lot in. It is very humbling to have been voted in by the hard-working and good people of Auckland Central. I want to thank them for the opportunity they have given me. It has been a privilege to meet so many Auckland Central residents on the doorstep. Some of them shared with me snapshots of their lives\u2014the good, the bad, and the sometimes out of focus. For those who have opened their hearts and homes, I am grateful that they gave me a better understanding of the challenges we face as a nation. The people I met on the streets of Auckland Central were hard-working, passionate people who care deeply about the future of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EOne issue that was raised with me by many people in Auckland was the reform of Auckland\u2019s regional government. I am committed to working hard on this. We cannot afford to get it wrong. The reform will require strong leadership from local and central government politicians. If people revert to preciously protecting their patches, then Aucklanders and New Zealand will suffer, and a once-in-a-generation opportunity will be lost. The solution will need to balance the move towards a more simple structure while ensuring there is a structure that supports strong community representation. If we achieve this, it will be a legacy of this Government and its support parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EAuckland Central is not a typical urban electorate. The diversity of the electorate is reflected in its geography, from the urban jungle to the gulf islands and the inner-city suburbs. The Auckland Central business district drives our nation\u2019s economy, but it is also where people live, work, and play. Over 120,000 people come into the city to work every day. The residents of the central business district live in over 100 apartment dwellings. I look forward to working hard to improve the relationship between local and central government to ensure that people in the inner city have a good standard of living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EThe gulf islands are one of the greatest assets Auckland has, and part of my focus as a member of Parliament will be to try to enhance and protect them. Waiheke Islanders\u2014the Waihetians\u2014are a strong, smart, vocal community that needs a good advocate on the national stage. Waiheke faces a delicate balance between sensible development and preservation of the natural environment. While I am in Parliament I intend to work hard with other parties, such as the Greens, to help steer this course and contribute on environmental issues. Our environment is the greatest gift we have been given as a nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EThere are people who think the environment is an issue that can be put aside when times are tough. I would ask those people to look deeper and realise that from a social and economic point of view, our environment is the most precious asset we have. Great Barrier Island is an untouched piece of paradise, a rough nugget with some of the most resourceful people we will find in New Zealand. The pioneering, resilient spirit of the Barrierites is alive and kicking. I am committed to working with local iwi and the community to advance the basic infrastructure of the island and deliver better marine protection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EThe western bay suburbs have developed with Auckland. These are not cookie-cutter subdivisions such as those you might see in the rest of the country. The communities, such as Grey Lynn, Ponsonby, Westmere, Freemans Bay, Arch Hill, and Western Springs, all have their own story and character. The people are multicultural, multi-ethnic, and cosmopolitan. Young families and young professionals are in abundance. This electorate does not just have large corporate headquarters. Some 18,000 small businesses make their living here, and part of my focus in Parliament will be to work with the private sector to promote policies that support these businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EThe electorate is also home to many arts and creative sector professionals. At this point I would also like to acknowledge the Rt Hon Helen Clark for her dedication and commitment to the arts. The performing arts are part of the vibrant heart of Auckland City. I am committed to ensuring that their voice is heard in this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EI want to look briefly into the future. The next 30 years, like the last 30 years, will see immense change in New Zealand. Although I have no doubt that the issues of health and education will continue to dominate the debate in our Hansard in 2038, I predict that other issues may be just as prominent as those of the last 10 years, as we have started to see them emerge. The information age has provided immense power, but with that power and insight come the inevitable challenges of using that information. In our pursuit of technology to do things smarter and to provide solutions in medicine and medical-care application, we will need to be aware of the impact on society and the challenges we may face as a result. In our pursuit of smaller, smarter devices to manage our lives, to entertain us, and to communicate with each other we must realise that these great things come with deposits of information capable of mapping every move of a person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EThe recent Google application is an example of this\u2014great technology, but the social, moral, legal, and ethical implications could be immense and need to be adequately thought through. Medicine is an area where this is just as applicable. Most people would applaud when they see genetics providing information that can help treat diseases such as cancer; however, our ability to obtain information about children not born yet is an example where not all of society may be on the same page. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EThis Parliament, and Parliaments of the future, will grapple with these issues. As someone with a background in information technology and genetics, I hope to be able to contribute to these debates. As part of the next generation of New Zealanders, I know we will have to work smarter and harder than the generation that came before us. With an ageing population we will be thin on the ground. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EAt this point I want to finish by acknowledging the thousands of Kiwis living overseas who long to come home to our nation. The voice of these people is at times muted by distance but they are passionate New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003E I thank the people of New Zealand for this opportunity. I am proud\u2014so proud\u2014to be the first National member of Parliament for Auckland Central. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd458102070d4987bdafa603dc5979b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd458102070d4987bdafa603dc5979b2\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I congratulate you on your election as the Speaker of the House. Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh. That is the greeting Sikhs first exchange when they meet each other or when they part company. It is a reminder to always stay humble and never forget that God has supreme power. Namaste, salaam alaikum, kia ora, and Pacific greetings to all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EToday I congratulate our leader, the Prime Minister, the Hon John Key, on winning the trust of the people of New Zealand to lead our country through these difficult times. It is by virtue of his leadership that I stand here today addressing this House of Representatives as a member of Parliament. I shall always remain humbled by the trust shown by the leader, the Hon John Key; the National Party President, Judy Kirk; and all my National Party colleagues who have shown trust in me. I will do my best to honour their trust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EDuring the election campaign, I made new friends and supporters, like the electorate chair, Ray Strong; the campaign chair, Kit Parkinson; the campaign manager, Jill Spooner; and Gurvinder Singh, my financial agent. I would like to thank them and all the supporters from all communities for their immense support and hard work. I also want to thank all my friends, well-wishers, and supporters who have come all the way from Auckland\u2014and also from Wellington\u2014to join me on this historic day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EI would like to pay special tribute to my father, the late Bakshi Jagdev Singh, and my mother, the late Basant Kaur Bakshi, who instilled in me the invaluable qualities of honesty, of integrity, and of extending a helping hand to whomever, wherever and whenever I can. I know they would be proud to see their son carry on the family tradition of politics and representing communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EI thank my family. Without their love, support, and sacrifice I would not be here today. To my wife, Irvinder Kaur, and my sons, Gawanjit Singh Bakshi and Rijakjit Singh Bakshi, who are here today, I say they have been a source of my strength. Thank you very much. My brothers, Karamjit Singh and Paramjit Singh, and my sisters-in-law visited me from India to support me during the election and bless me. I am also grateful to my father-in-law and mother-in-law for their true guidance and moral support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EI would also like to acknowledge tangata whenua, and all the New Zealanders who have opened their hearts to migrants like me and made us a part of this nation. This country has a proud history. It is a history in which my own people have played a part since 1890, when a fellow Indian Sikh, Phuman Singh Gill, migrated here. He married a P\u0101keh\u0101 and worked as a confectioner. His descendants today live in Auckland, and I acknowledge Peter Gill amongst them. Indians have served and contributed to New Zealand society in many spheres, like farming, business, and the medical and legal professions. Today our community stands proud in having produced its first Indian Sikh member of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EI would especially like to acknowledge the New Zealand Police and the New Zealand Air Force for having integrated the Sikh turban and our five articles of faith, commonly termed as the \u201CFive K\u2019s\u201D, into their respective uniforms. They are kesh, uncut hair; kanga, a comb; kirpan, a small sword; karha, a steel bracelet; and kachhera, cotton underwear. Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing my baptised brothers to come to Parliament wearing kirpan, which our religion requires.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EI entered politics many years ago because of a burning desire to make a difference in the fields of trade, law and order, and inter-ethnic relations. I identify with Mark Twain\u2019s statement: \u201CTwenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you did not do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. AND discover.\u201D Exploring, dreaming, and discovering are an innate part of every Kiwi\u2019s world view. That is what makes us a rich nation\u2014rich in innovative talent, rich in exploring new scientific frontiers, and rich in extending individual freedom. Time and again we have led the world in these areas. It is my belief that under the dynamic leadership of our Prime Minister, the Hon John Key, and the brilliance of our Minister of Trade, the Hon Tim Groser, we can create conditions around the world that favour our innovators, our manufacturers, and our producers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EAfter the free-trade agreement with China and given that talks are in progress for a free-trade agreement with the USA, I think it is time to turn our attention to India, one of the biggest democracies and the fastest-growing economy in the world. I would like to see a free-trade agreement between these two countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EIt may not be out of place to say that the prosperity that trade brings to a country becomes meaningless if the person on the street does not feel safe. The deaths of hard-working Kiwis like Sergeant Derek Wootton, retailer Navtej Singh, cafe owner Joanne Wang, young student Krishna Naidu, and others remind us of the work that needs to be done in the field of policing, in the social sector, in education, and in inter-ethnic relations. This is not only to safeguard our country\u2019s reputation as a tourist heaven, but also to lead the world in providing solutions to tackle crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003ETackling the causes of criminal behaviour to prevent it from happening is cost effective, and prevents human suffering. We must never lose sight of the fact that even if we put a criminal behind bars, the victims and their loved ones are already sentenced for life. That sense of having been wronged for no fault of their own can spread bitterness in all corners of our society. I humbly offer my intimate knowledge of the South Auckland communities and their specific issues, to help prevent crime before it is committed, because that is the only way to prevent the suffering of the victims. I would like to take this opportunity to stress the need to not lose sight of individual freedom while trying to tackle crime. As Thomas Jefferson pointed out two centuries ago, \u201CA society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003ENow I come to the growing ethnic diversity of our New Zealand society. Our first Asian Cabinet Minister, the Hon Pansy Wong, my National Party colleague, Melissa Lee, and I are examples of the growing ethnic diversity of New Zealand society. I also acknowledge Dr. Ashraf Choudhary, Dr. Rajen Prasad, and Raymond Huo on the Opposition benches as part of this ethnically diverse Parliament. I humbly pledge to work with our Minister for Ethnic Affairs, the Hon Pansy Wong, and others to keep the diverse ethnic mosaic of our society harmonious and respectful of each other\u2019s differences. I have come to this Parliament carrying the responsibility of looking after the interests of the people of this great country, and I am fully committed to do my best to serve this great country and its people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EI have come to the conclusion of my maiden speech. I would like to share with the House the ideal city from Sikh scripture, which is a guiding light to me and my fellow Sikhs:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A2C\u0A47\u0A17\u0A2E \u0A2A\u0A41\u0A30\u0A3E \u0A38\u0A39\u0A30 \u0A15\u0A4B \u0A28\u0A3E\u0A09 \u0965\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A26\u0A42\u0A16\u0A41 \u0A05\u0A70\u0A26\u0A4B\u0A39\u0A41 \u0A28\u0A39\u0A40 \u0A24\u0A3F\u0A39\u0A3F \u0A20\u0A3E\u0A09 \u0965\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A28\u0A3E\u0A02 \u0A24\u0A38\u0A35\u0A40\u0A38 \u0A16\u0A3F\u0A30\u0A3E\u0A1C\u0A41 \u0A28 \u0A2E\u0A3E\u0A32\u0A41 \u0965\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A16\u0A09\u0A2B\u0A41 \u0A28 \u0A16\u0A24\u0A3E \u0A28 \u0A24\u0A30\u0A38\u0A41 \u0A1C\u0A35\u0A3E\u0A32\u0A41 \u0965\u0A67\u0965\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A05\u0A2C \u0A2E\u0A4B\u0A39\u0A3F \u0A16\u0A42\u0A2C \u0A35\u0A24\u0A28 \u0A17\u0A39 \u0A2A\u0A3E\u0A08 \u0965\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A0A\u0A39\u0A3E\u0A02 \u0A16\u0A48\u0A30\u0A3F \u0A38\u0A26\u0A3E \u0A2E\u0A47\u0A30\u0A47 \u0A2D\u0A3E\u0A08 \u0965\u0A67\u0965 \u0A30\u0A39\u0A3E\u0A09 \u0965\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A15\u0A3E\u0A07\u0A2E\u0A41 \u0A26\u0A3E\u0A07\u0A2E\u0A41 \u0A38\u0A26\u0A3E \u0A2A\u0A3E\u0A24\u0A3F\u0A38\u0A3E\u0A39\u0A40 \u0965\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A26\u0A4B\u0A2E \u0A28 \u0A38\u0A47\u0A2E \u0A0F\u0A15 \u0A38\u0A4B \u0A06\u0A39\u0A40 \u0965\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A06\u0A2C\u0A3E\u0A26\u0A3E\u0A28\u0A41 \u0A38\u0A26\u0A3E \u0A2E\u0A38\u0A39\u0A42\u0A30 \u0965 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A0A\u0A39\u0A3E\u0A02 \u0A17\u0A28\u0A40 \u0A2C\u0A38\u0A39\u0A3F \u0A2E\u0A3E\u0A2E\u0A42\u0A30 \u0965\u0A68\u0965 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A24\u0A3F\u0A09 \u0A24\u0A3F\u0A09 \u0A38\u0A48\u0A32 \u0A15\u0A30\u0A39\u0A3F \u0A1C\u0A3F\u0A09 \u0A2D\u0A3E\u0A35\u0A48 \u0965 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A2E\u0A39\u0A30\u0A2E \u0A2E\u0A39\u0A32 \u0A28 \u0A15\u0A4B \u0A05\u0A1F\u0A15\u0A3E\u0A35\u0A48 \u0965 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A15\u0A39\u0A3F \u0A30\u0A35\u0A3F\u0A26\u0A3E\u0A38 \u0A16\u0A32\u0A3E\u0A38 \u0A1A\u0A2E\u0A3E\u0A30\u0A3E \u0965 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u0A1C\u0A4B \u0A39\u0A2E \u0A38\u0A39\u0A30\u0A40 \u0A38\u0A41 \u0A2E\u0A40\u0A24\u0A41 \u0A39\u0A2E\u0A3E\u0A30\u0A3E \u0965\u0A69\u0965\u0A68\u0965\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EBaygumpura, \u2018the city without sorrow\u2019, is the name of the City.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThere is no suffering or anxiety there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThere are no troubles or taxes on commodities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThere is no fear, blemish or downfall. [1]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003ENow, I have found this most excellent city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThere is lasting peace and safety there, O Siblings of Destiny. [1] [Pause]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EGod\u2019s Kingdom is steady, stable and eternal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThere is no second or third status; all are equal there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThat city is populous and eternally famous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThose who live there are wealthy and contented. [2]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThey stroll about freely, just as they please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThey know the Mansion of the Lord\u2019s Presence, and no one blocks their way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003ESays Ravi Daas, the emancipated shoemaker:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003Ewhoever is a citizen there, is a friend of mine. [3] [2]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThat is the vision I bring to this Parliament, and I shall do my best to work alongside my esteemed colleagues to achieve it. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1e55e0b4e724244942781aaf59c74d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1e55e0b4e724244942781aaf59c74d5\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I congratulate you on your election to the position of Speaker, and I know that you will serve this House in an excellent manner. Ladies and gentlemen, fellow members of the House, I have always been proud to be a New Zealander. I am now honoured, humbled and privileged to speak in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EI am very proud to be a member of the National Party. I was convinced some time ago that New Zealand would be extremely well served by the forward-thinking leadership of the Prime Minister, the Hon John Key. I now find myself with this opportunity to serve under him in his Government. I count that as a great privilege. I would like to thank Judy Kirk, the president of the National Party. She is a wonderful woman, who leads with great skill, insight and warmth. I thank Jo Stuart and Alastair Bell, two of our regional chairs, who have encouraged me in my journey to the House. I thank the great team in New Plymouth, who wholeheartedly threw their support behind me. Special thanks go to Jan Mason and Orm Greensill, my campaign co-chairs for their tremendous support and, of course, to all the campaign team and the many volunteers who literally did the hard yards. My thanks also go to John and Helen Armstrong, who have been great personal supporters throughout the rigours of the campaign. My family has been a tremendous encouragement to me. Of course, I would like to thank my wife, Maura, for her steadfast support, her brilliant analysis of situations, and her unrelenting belief in me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EI am very proud and honoured to be the member of Parliament who represents the people of the New Plymouth electorate. This electorate, which goes from \u014Ckato in the west to Waitara in the east, and to the summit of Mount Taranaki, is an amazingly beautiful part of New Zealand. The New Plymouth electorate is truly a jewel in the crown of New Zealand, and its time has come. Only 2 months ago New Plymouth was voted New Zealand\u2019s top city, heading off Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland as the best place in New Zealand in which to live, love, work and raise a family. I know that some of the members from those lesser cities want to rise to their feet right now, but I understand that interjections are discouraged during maiden speeches. Added to that, New Plymouth won three out of the five possible gold medals at the UN-endorsed International Awards for Liveable Communities, which were recently held in China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EI bring this to members\u2019 attention because it was not always the case. New Plymouth was described by author E W Payton in 1876 as the \u201Cdullest place in the colony \u2026 which all the other great bustling cities, had a patronising way of snubbing\u201D. As we wonder about those words, we realise they underscore a story that all New Zealanders can be encouraged by. As a consequence of New Plymouth\u2019s distance from those great bustling cities, it bred a people who possessed what we would all see as a noble trait: self-reliance. With the earliest M\u0101ori settling in Taranaki around AD 800, the people of the region have always been resilient and resourceful. When describing the magnificence of New Plymouth and the area, Mayor Peter Tennent said: \u201CIt\u2019s because of our heritage of innovation and determination that we have ground-breaking facilities, extensive parks and reserves, a magnificent programme of events and festivals, and a very strong local economy\u2014which combined with our fantastic landscape, makes for a lifestyle that is unequalled anywhere.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EThe success of New Plymouth and its surrounding region is not just because we are a cow town, or an oil town. It is because we are innovative and determined to make the most of opportunities that come our way. Being so far from the bustling cities of the north and south, the people of the New Plymouth region were compelled to develop their own strong sense of community, their own expression of art and culture, and their own excellence in industry. That is evidenced today by events such as WOMAD\u2014the World of Music, Arts and Dance festival\u2014and the Taranaki Rhododendron and Garden Festival, which attracts tourists from all over New Zealand and around the world. Pukekura Park, in the centre of the city, has been named a garden of national significance, and the Govett-Brewster Art Gallery, the home of the collection of internationally acclaimed kinetic artist Len Lye, is world renowned. Taranaki has a world-class stadium, Yarrow Stadium\u2014carrying the name of the late Noel Yarrow, one of Taranaki\u2019s great philanthropists\u2014where we recently enjoyed the All Blacks playing Samoa. The Davis Cup round against China was also played in New Plymouth. It is also evidenced in the world-class engineering companies that support the oil and gas industry and export their expertise around the world, not just in oil and gas engineering but in the leap that has been made to manufacture some of the best superyachts in the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EI would suspect that if Edward W Payton were to visit New Plymouth today, he would see a thriving, creative, expansive, exciting, and bustling city. He would write an addendum to his previous statement, which would say: \u201Ceven if they were snubbed \u2026 they wouldn\u2019t notice anyway!\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders, like the people of New Plymouth, have a great heritage of innovation and determination. It comes from the challenges we face from living on the far side of the world. State-of-the-art innovation and best practices are critical to us. We have huge oceans to cross to the bustling cities of the north, and if we are not committed to excellence, and if we are not resourceful and determined, we simply cannot compete. It has always been our ingenuity and resourcefulness that has given us the winning edge. As the world is facing severe economic conditions, it is this heritage\u2014it is this heart\u2014that will pull us through with strength and confidence. It is the story of New Plymouth, which I am proud to represent in this House. It is also the story that New Zealand will win on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EThe story of New Plymouth\u2019s future success is yet to unfold: developing greater national and international transport links through the port; the ongoing development of New Plymouth\u2019s infrastructure; continuing development of tourism features and opportunities; the continual increase of opportunities through our educational institutions, which will inspire our young graduates to invest their skills in our region; the ongoing development of New Plymouth\u2019s unique arts and cultural heritage; the ongoing advancement of industries such as agriculture and oil and gas, and all the associated industries that experience the multiplying benefit of their success, which are opening up opportunities for more New Zealanders; and the ongoing enrichment of our communities and the development of community support organisations. People love living in New Plymouth. It is rich in its relationships and sense of community. It has a great can-do attitude. It is a world-class city in so many ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EI am a son of Taranaki, a returned son. Mount Taranaki is our great landmark. It gives us a sense of location and anchorage. By it, we know where we are and where we are heading. I was born in H\u0101wera, South Taranaki, to Venn and Margaret Young. Like all good parents they too were landmark people in my life. I would like to acknowledge members of my family\u2014my mother Margaret, who is here today. I would also like to acknowledge Catherine Young, whom many of you will also know. I acknowledge my siblings\u2014Adrienne, Audrey, Simon and his wife Carly, and Geoffrey. I have family members who cannot be here: Andrew and Lynne, Peter and Tracey, and Matthew, Lauren, and Francis. They continue to play a very important part in my life. I thank them for all their support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EMy parents were dairy farmers in \u014Ctakeo, and when I was about 4 years of age they shifted to Cambridge to farm in the Waikato. In 1966 my father was selected as the National Party candidate for Egmont, which later became Wait\u014Dtara, and then Whanganui. He was successful and spent the next 24 years serving his constituents and this House. My first recollection of Parliament was coming here as a 7-year-old and meeting the late Sir Keith Holyoake, the then Prime Minister. I remember that meeting vividly. I remember my father\u2019s first office. I remember the shoeshine stools in the men\u2019s toilets, which are still there today. I remember sitting up in the gallery as a small boy, wondering what this was all about. I remember eating in Bellamy\u2019s, with the silver butter knives, the rolls, and the fish that so often seemed to be on the menu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EThroughout my growing years my parents instilled in me a very basic philosophy: \u201CDo unto others as you would have them do unto you.\u201D\u2014the golden rule of life, as my mother said. Later I learnt that this simple philosophy was at the heart of practical Christianity, which later dramatically shaped my life. I was educated in H\u0101wera and New Plymouth, and later in Palmerston North. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EThroughout my student years I enjoyed what many young men enjoyed doing\u2014that is, working in the holidays. My jobs ranged from haymaking, to cheesemaking in the Kaupakanui dairy factory, then to churning out the very first butter from Whareroa\u2014which is now Fonterra\u2019s H\u0101wera plant, and is the biggest in the Southern Hemisphere\u2014and to spending a summer in the P\u0101tea freezing works, followed by a couple of summers in a high country cattle station called Molesworth, which straddles North Canterbury, Marlborough, and Nelson Bays. During my time in Palmerston North I was training to be an educator, a teacher. It is a noble profession\u2014perhaps not earth-shattering, but definitely world shaping. I discovered to my surprise that I was an excellent teacher. I think I was surprised at that because I was not a particularly excellent student. I have been most gratified to receive emails from students even this year, who still count me as their best teacher 30 years later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003ELater in my life I served the people of Waitakere City, west Auckland, as a church minister. I found that to be challenging and rewarding work. It connected me to families and single people, to young and old alike, to business people, tradespeople, labourers, factory workers, and professionals\u2014people in all walks of life. I was their mentor and friend. I shared their happy times and their heartaches. I listened to their stories and stretched my perspective to see theirs. That has helped me to understand where people are at. Through that I discovered what it is to not just live in a community but lead a community. The challenge, as our Prime Minister has articulated well, is to encourage people to have a life of aspiration rather than of envy\u2014to grasp the opportunities that come each person\u2019s way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EIt reminds me of the story of a young ambitious man asking an experienced salesman for the secret of his success. The salesman said: \u201CThere\u2019s no great secret. You just have to jump at every opportunity that comes along.\u201D The young man replied: \u201CBut how can I tell when an opportunity is coming?\u201D. The salesman replied: \u201CYou can\u2019t. You have to keep jumping.\u201D I think that is what aspiration is about. It is not just seeing the opportunity; it is jumping for it. It is not just aptitude and education; it is attitude and determination. Education, and encouraging and leading people forward into a brighter and better future has always been my core purpose, no matter what profession I have been engaged in. I trust I can continue this passion as a member of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EAs I come to a close, I say that much of the world is focused on reducing its carbon footprint. We want it to be balanced so we live in a sustainable world. I would like to describe the political footprint I hope to make. When my time comes to leave, I want to leave this place better off than when I came. I want to leave New Zealand better for my contribution than without it. I want to leave a political footprint that is an indelible impression of someone who carries genuine concern and care for his constituents, colleagues, and all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EFirstly, I want to tread carefully with my constituents and colleagues. I believe the best parliamentarian is one who seeks to serve his or her constituents and communities without fear or favour. The leaders whom people admire are those who continually put the benefit of others first. I am not here for myself; I am here for the people of New Plymouth. No one will feel my footprint on their toes. I believe it is important to respect the opinion of others, especially when they may differ from my own. Arrogance is ultimately a step towards ignorance. There is a certain wisdom in understanding that those who disagree with us can often educate us. They challenge our perception and knowledge, and it is only by embracing challenge that we truly grow. I want to be open-minded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EHowever, I believe it is important to have strength of character so that we remain true to our convictions, whether others agree with us or not. I appreciate the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson, who said: \u201CIt is easy in the world to live after the world\u2019s opinion. It is easy in solitude to live after one\u2019s own. But the great men or women are they, who in the midst of the crowd keep with perfect sweetness the independence of their character.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003ESecondly, in stepping out, I want my footprint to be seen in strategic advancements that will improve people\u2019s lives. I believe in freedom. I believe democracy offers New Zealanders the best political opportunity for freedom. True freedom requires that people live in social responsibility and concern for one another. Caring is not the prerogative of a socialistic philosophy; it is a universal responsibility. As I tread my political footprint in my community and in this Parliament, I want to support and promote the goal of financial success and independence, alongside a pursuit of personal aspiration and excellence that also seeks to live in social concern for others. Though we live with governmental oversight and organisation, we organise because the social concern for others is often lower than it should be in our communities. Therefore, as we build responsible and mature communities, Government can become smaller because communities become stronger. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EThirdly and finally, in establishing my political footprint I want to leave a pathway for others to follow. I aspire that my service and leadership would be an inspiration to others, that my life would serve as a worthy example to follow. We must never forget that above all things, we are leaders. We will leave a legacy. Some legacies will last days, some will last months, some will last years, and some will never be forgotten. May our monuments be ever seen in the vitality and success of those we seek to serve. The things worth living for will always be the things that outlast us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4e431839d8d41af8c4e718fd22bb6be\u0022\u003EI want to be a part of something great that is worthy of the investment of our lives. That is why I am here, that is why I am honoured to serve in the National Party, and that is what I aspire to do. Thank you, Mr Speaker, for this opportunity. May God bless us all. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022 data-id=\u00222b258c63be2e4803b7d9b3e42c220380\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b258c63be2e4803b7d9b3e42c220380\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Kei te Manu K\u014Drero, the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. E ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, rau rangatira m\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. E aku m\u0101tua, e aku whaea, ng\u0101 karanga maha me koutou kua tae tawhiti mai i Te Wai Pounamu, t\u0113n\u0101 hoki koutou. Huri noa i te Whare nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker, the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith, greetings. Greetings to you all. To the powers, languages, and the many leaders, greetings to you. Greetings also to my parents, aunties, and the many callings, including those of you who came from afar in the South Island. To you throughout this House, greetings to you, greetings to you, and greetings to you all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI am the M\u0101ori Party manifestation of a 100-day plan. In true M\u0101ori Party style, our plan took us only 84 days to complete. With the outstanding 16 days we have made a start on our 1,000-day plan. The 84 working days between when I was selected to represent the M\u0101ori Party in the Te Tai Tonga electorate, on 16 July, and election day have been a journey like no other. It has been a journey with one aim in mind: I am here to serve my people, and because of the love I have for my family. That life of service to, and love of, others is a lesson well learnt as a member of my wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi, as well as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I was 12 when I first started to serve by playing the piano and the organ at church. Later I taught and led in various Church auxiliaries. I continue to serve others by being here in this House and representing my people and my loved ones to the best of my ability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThe calling to serve flows within my blood. As I stand here today I am aware of the legacy I owe my father, John Hippolite of Ng\u0101ti K\u014Data, Ng\u0101ti Kuia, and Ng\u0101ti Toa. His influence on my life was profound. Dad was at the forefront of the M\u0101ori renaissance in Nelson and, later, in Hamilton. He was always a strong union and Labour man. In fact, in 1967 after the death of Sir Eruera Tirik\u0101tene, dad stood for selection for Southern Maori but missed out to Sir Eruera\u2019s daughter, Whetu Tirik\u0101tene-Sullivan. Today, 41 years later, the daughter of John Hippolite completes the circle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EIn the late 1960s, with Dr Oliver Sutherland, dad undertook research in the Nelson District Court on unrepresented defendants, many of them M\u0101ori. His action eventually led to the legal aid scheme being opened to criminal defendants. The pursuit of justice and his determination to fight for the people led dad to Korea, where he served alongside some 6,000 other New Zealanders who took up the duty, on our behalf, to serve their country. He was always a proud member of the RSA, but he could not support New Zealand\u2019s involvement in the war in Viet Nam. His anger was never about his military colleagues\u2014those who did the hard yards on foreign shores. How could it be? He too had been driven by duty and by honour to serve our country. Dad condemned the fact of Western intervention in Viet Nam, and served his time instead as a passionate advocate for peace and justice, occupying the protest lines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EIn the 1980s my father joined the protest line again, in the largest civil disturbance since the 1951 waterfront strike. This period, in which 150,000 New Zealanders took action to oppose the racial policies of South Africa, has been described as a watershed moment in our history. It was the juxtaposition of two ideals that were firmly established in the identity of the nation. Rugby, the national icon, crashed head first into the national myth that New Zealand had the finest race relations in the world. While the policy of apartheid was played out on South African shores, questions inevitably arose at home about how we could allow M\u0101ori to be described as \u201Chonorary whites\u201D, or label those who protested as stirrers and troublemakers. It was a theme that was repeated just 4 years ago, in the reactions to those who marched in the h\u012Bkoi to oppose the Foreshore and Seabed Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EMy father hated injustice wherever he saw it. He marched in the 1975 Land March, and was one of the original claimants in Wai 262, the flora and fauna claim, for which we still await the Waitangi Tribunal report, 17 years after it was first lodged. Dad was arrested at Bastion Point and at Raglan. This key I wear is his. It opens the padlock on the chains on the statue erected by Aunty Eva Rickard at Wh\u0101ingaroa to commemorate their land struggle and those arrested there. He worked with social and Government agencies to encourage them to find better ways to work with M\u0101ori. He supported his Uncle Rangi Elkington to establish Whakat\u016B Marae in Nelson. And he always tried to interest his children in his activities. I know that he is watching and smiling proudly today from heaven.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EMy mother, June Gray of Kai Tahu and Ng\u0101ti M\u0101moe, was also always very politically active. It was never enough to be enrolled in our family; you voted, and you supported your candidate any way you could. I have thought about mum as we reflect on the low turn-out rate by M\u0101ori in this year\u2019s general election. I wonder how it is that 80 percent of the general population turned up to vote, but only 62 percent of M\u0101ori eligible to vote on the M\u0101ori roll turned up on the day. Representation in a democracy is not only a basic human right. It is also a sign of faith, to move forward together as a nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EMum was a member of the Labour Party right up until Labour took its great leap right in the 1980s, when she stayed left with her Jim, and thereafter she doorknocked for him, took petitions out, sat at cake stalls, drove her children to distraction with her devotion to him, and did everything she could to make sure that he was re-elected, election after election, until she became too sick to carry on. Mum was also a prolific letter writer\u2014writing letters to the editor on local and national issues. I wish she was well enough to be here today; she would be so proud to know that I am here in the House with her Jim, even though we have different politics and philosophies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003ESo our family was programmed to be political. One of my brothers previously stood unsuccessfully for election to this House. Another has stood unsuccessfully for election to his local council. I am really proud of them, but I am even more pleased that my record is better than theirs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EAt about 14 I joined the Labour Party, and when I was old enough to vote I faithfully voted Labour for many years. As a young teen I joined the protests against our involvement in Viet Nam. Later, raising a young family scaled back the time I could devote to political activities, but as a university student I protested against the Springbok tour in 1985, against the education policies of scaling M\u0101ori down, and against other discriminatory practices. It was at about this time that I stopped voting and supporting Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EMy politics have always been defined by my upbringing and my experiences as a M\u0101ori, a M\u0101ori woman, and a mother of M\u0101ori children. I have always supported parties that provide the most support and benefit for our wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi. Career-wise I have made the same choices. Although university had not been part of my life plan, when our children were of an age that meant I was ready to return to the workforce, I decided that I needed to set the example for my children and further my education. I started a Bachelor of Arts degree at Waikato University, but after just 1 year turned my focus to the law. It was a decision motivated by the injustices I had observed through my involvement with a group of women involved in Women\u2019s Refuge. While some in the group decided to help through social agencies, I wanted to make the law work for our women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EIt was Martin Luther King who said: \u201CInjustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.\u201D It is a principle I believe in wholeheartedly: the principle of collective responsibility, not retribution. I cannot be a bystander to life. I chose to immerse myself in the mechanics of law and, now, the machinery of Government, in order to ensure that the powerful and the powerless are reconciled, and peace and justice prevail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EAnd so our wh\u0101nau moved to Wellington, and my adventure with the law started. It was only a matter of time before the Treaty became my passion. The light switched on through the legal system course, and turned to full beam during the constitutional law course. Helping to turn on that switch was Alex Frame, who made the Treaty components of my study so vivid and so compelling. It was all about the timing. While I was learning the theory of constitutional law at university, that topic became even more vivid because that was the year that Sir Graham Latimer led the M\u0101ori Council on its most controversial case, when it took on the Labour Government over the sale of State-owned assets and won.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI spent many hours in the Court of Appeal being educated in the practice and impact of constitutional law. Twenty-one years later, the ruling of the Court of Appeal in New Zealand Maori Council v Attorney-General is worth repeating for the record. In summing up, the president, Sir Robin Cooke, said: \u201CWe have reached two major conclusions. First that the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi override everything else in the State Owned Enterprises Act. Second, that those principles require the Pakeha and Maori partners to act towards each other reasonably and with the utmost good faith.\u201D Our nation is better for the vision and courage of Sir Graham Latimer and the New Zealand M\u0101ori Council in pursuing that case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThat was a time, also, when I first watched David Baragwanath QC; now Chief Justice Dame Sian Elias, for whom I was later privileged to act as junior counsel in the High Court and Court of Appeal for the M\u0101ori electoral option case; and Martin Dawson, who was to become counsel for Ng\u0101ti K\u014Data\u2019s tribunal claims. I mihi to them and to Martin\u2019s wh\u0101nau. We still miss him, and he was never far from our thoughts when 3 weekends ago the iwi, hap\u016B, and wh\u0101nau of Te Tau Ihu received the final report of the Waitangi Tribunal into our claims. In the tribunal\u2019s report, it traced back the whakapapa of the claims put forward by people such as Martin\u2014claims dating back to as early as 1860, when the people of Te Tau Ihu had already lost most of our original estate. The report describes the after-effects of the Crown\u2019s failure as being evident in grinding poverty, social dislocation, and loss of culture. But impacts were also evident in the Crown\u2019s failure to protect or to provide for M\u0101ori interests and rights in their customary fisheries and other resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI worked at the Treaty of Waitangi policy unit, which is now the Office of Treaty Settlements, where I observed firsthand the Crown\u2019s attitude and behaviour towards, and policies on, the Treaty and M\u0101ori. I thought it would be the obvious springboard to make change\u2014change for the betterment of our people. Hope reigns eternal. It was a brutal initiation. It is very easy to become cynical and defeatist in that sort of environment. I still think it is vital that M\u0101ori keep working within the system to effect change. But it is equally vital that M\u0101ori have strong support systems, both inside and outside the system, in order to keep focused on who we are and why we are there; otherwise we risk system capture or total meltdown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EWhile I was working there my husband and I were privileged to represent Ng\u0101ti Toa at the M\u0101ori Congress\u2014for a while with my father, who represented Te R\u016Bnanganui o Te Tau Ihu. Through our involvement with the M\u0101ori Congress we were able to represent M\u0101ori at various UN conferences. The biggest eye-opener about our participation in those fora was how hard the Crown worked internationally at maintaining the fiction that New Zealand was a harmonious community, that our race relations were the best in the world, and that the Crown upheld the Treaty of Waitangi. Would that that were true! I mihi to Moana Jackson and Aroha Mead in particular for the work they did and continue to do with the indigenous networks and the UN, and say kia kaha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EFinally, after 9 years I finished my law degree and was admitted to the bar. How proud my parents, husband, and children were that day! The first law firm I worked for as a barrister and solicitor was Woodward Law Office. I remember long days and nights working in Auckland and Wellington\u2014sometimes so long that I would have my youngest daughter curled up asleep under my desk, waiting to go home. Like many young mothers, I know about the tension between having a career and wanting to be with your children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EAnd just to prove what a glutton for punishment I was, at that time I was also one of the tutors for the M\u0101ori laws and philosophy course at Te W\u0101nanga o Raukawa, became the director of the course for 1 year, sat on the manawhakahaere for some years, and for several years tutored the M\u0101ori legal entities course there. I mihi to Professor Whatarangi Winiata, who has touched so many lives through his influence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI moved to the Crown Forestry Rental Trust, where I met the most amazingly committed people, both those working at the trust and those working for their wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi. I later was employed by Te Ratonga Ture\u2014the M\u0101ori Legal Service\u2014and became involved in the community law centre and met more committed, if not driven, people. These were people like Tariana Turia, Pita Sharples, Hone Harawira, and Te Ururoa Flavell; people like the absolutely dedicated members of Te Tai Tonga whom I have worked with over the last few weeks; and the 23,000 members of the M\u0101ori Party, who believe they were raised to advocate for positive change, and who want a better world for us all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EIt is also right for me at this time to acknowledge the passing of two great t\u014Dtara: Monte \u014Chia and Rangitihi John Tahup\u0101rae. These two men exemplify for me a dedication and love that positive change can make. Haere atu k\u014Drua me ng\u0101 mate puta noa te motu ki te Atua. Moe mai i te aroha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003E[Depart, you two, and the deaths from throughout the land, to God. Rest there lovingly.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge their wives, Linda and Rose, who truly were their pou tokomanawa\u2014t\u0113n\u0101 k\u014Drua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI began my k\u014Drero by remembering that there is no greater calling than to be a servant of the people. That calling is not just an individual pursuit; it impacts on my wh\u0101nau: my husband, Selwyn, my five children, my son-in-law and daughter-in-law, my five mokopuna, and all the mokopuna to come. And so I end in acknowledging them and their commitment, their dedication, and their love, which I know will fulfil me through the challenges I know will accompany me every day in the life of the MP for Te Tai Tonga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira kei te Manu K\u014Drero, e te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003E[So to you, Mr Speaker, and the House, greetings to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EWaiata; haka\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8bbb3faca684e4898763351b8d43373\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8bbb3faca684e4898763351b8d43373\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EAum bhoor bhuwah swaha\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003ETat savitur varenyam\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EBhargo devasaya dheemahi\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EDhiyo yo naha prachodayat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EOh God! Thou art the Giver of Life \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003ERemover of pain and sorrow\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThe Bestower of happiness\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EOh! Creator of the Universe\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EMay we receive thy supreme sin-destroying light\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EMay Thou guide our intellect in the right direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EE ng\u0101 iwi o t\u0113nei rohe, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. E ng\u0101 iwi o te motu, ka nui te mihi ki a koutou, \u0101, n\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, \u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E[To the tribes of this region, greetings to you all. To the tribes of the country, a huge greeting to you, as well. So greetings to you, greetings to you, and greetings to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003ETo my friends and colleagues Raymond Huo, Ashraf Choudhary, Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi, Melissa Lee, and the Hon Pansy Wong, I give my warm greetings. Mr Speaker, I add my voice to others who have congratulated you, your deputy, and your two associates on your appointments. Even as a new member, I can see the importance of the role, and the demands it places on you. I wish you all well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EIn this my maiden speech, I want to recall my journey to Parliament and the many voices that have travelled here with me. I remember my arrival in New Zealand on 21 April 1964. The TEAL Electra flight took 300 minutes from Nadi in Fiji. It landed at Whenuapai airport in Hobsonville, west Auckland. On the walk from the aircraft to the air force hangar, which doubled in those days as the international terminal, the cold of that early autumn morning had frozen the toes of this Pacific Indian. I just wanted to go back home. My grandparents, however, before me, had taken a much more hazardous journey from Uttar Pradesh in India, to Fiji, as indentured labourers under colonial rule. My father was born in Fiji and there he pioneered public transport. I come from a large family\u2014I am No. 11 out of 14\u2014which includes also an extended family across several generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EAs an immigrant I owe an enormous debt of gratitude to New Zealand for the decent education it gave me, and for the series of opportunities it provided to work with thousands of its citizens in my various professional and public roles. To now enter New Zealand\u2019s forty-ninth Parliament as a member is an honour beyond belief, because this Pacific Indian from Fiji had no business dreaming of this possibility in 1964. To have become a citizen was a privilege; to serve its people, a duty; and to now represent them, an honour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EMany people have been part of my journey, and in a sense they are here with me today. My journey to Parliament is essentially their journey, and those with whom I have travelled here will always remain my reference point. My maiden speech is a tribute to them, and to all they have contributed to in my life. The best way I can say thank you to them for their generosity over the years is to ensure that my privileged knowledge of their experiences informs the next generation of policies and programmes that are devised here in their interests. My wife Prem and my two children and their partners are extremely important to me. In exactly an hour from now, Prem and I will have been married 40 years. Prem has been my constant companion and the bedrock of our family. She often tells others\u2014I think in jest\u2014that the only reason I married her was for the \u201Cgreen card\u201D. I do not often get a chance to tell her that I appreciate all she has done, and continues to do, for me and for our family, but I do so today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EI also have two very special children, who, together with their partners, are wonderfully principled adults who seek to make their special contribution to our society. My mother-in-law\u2014God bless her\u2014who lives in Auckland, has a unique relationship with me. When Prem is not around I am treated like a prince and I thank her for that. When Prem is present, I take my place in a different pecking order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EMy life in New Zealand, however, did not have a smooth beginning. Soon after we got married I was asked by the Immigration Service to return to Fiji as I did not qualify for residence. Despite a 3-year battle to have this decision overturned, we were unsuccessful. We made preparations to leave New Zealand, to have our first child in Fiji, and to set up home there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EA group of community leaders from west Auckland\u2014and the Hon Pita Sharples knows them well; kia ora, Pita\u2014where we lived, led by the principal of the school at which my wife taught, decided to question the decision and ask for it to be reversed. They believed that an injustice had occurred. On 24 December our dear friend Nigel Langston arrived at our home with a letter to say that I had been granted permanent residence. The power of advocacy was alive. I have never forgotten what this group of friends did for me, and I owe a debt of gratitude to them to this day. But out of this act of kindness grew something I will always value. Nigel Langston, who lives in Henderson, and Elwyn Richardson, who lives in Taupaki in west Auckland, are both pioneers in the field of education and have remained close friends of ours. They have taught me social conscience, and they have taught me about sustained work, principles and values, contribution to society, and the value of a good education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EI have often wondered why people go out of their way to assist strangers and expect nothing in return. They were of a culture very different from mine, yet they could see what I could not see\u2014that is, the contribution I could make in the years ahead. They nourished me, accepted me into their families, and developed my imagination about how things could be in New Zealand. They demonstrated to me their faith and commitment to the human spirit, the human family, and the communities in which we were embedded, and they expected nothing in return. They are mentors today. They gave me confidence to have faith in people, especially the poor and the powerless. They taught me that it was a privilege to serve those people, and never to give up on them. I thank them sincerely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EFor some people this is not a particularly remarkable story, but when I try to understand my life in New Zealand, and what I bring to Parliament, it takes on a significance that is sometimes beyond comprehension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EI acknowledge my mother, who lives in Vancouver\u201490 years old\u2014and my brothers and sisters and their families, 140 of them, who live around the globe. My mother is the matriarch of the family and holds us together exceptionally well. This is a proud moment for her, too, and like other members of my family she travels in this Parliament with me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EI remember a particular family I worked with as a child welfare officer. I had been visiting this family of mum, dad, and three children for several months, without any real idea of how I might be helpful to this family. The father was not well socialised, and was reluctant to engage with welfare officers. The children attended special classes, the house was filthy, and the mother had serious disabilities. Without fail, every week produced complaints to us from teachers, health nurses, visiting teachers, doctors, and others to do something about them. Even my head office inspector said to me: \u201CRajen, don\u2019t bother with this family; you won\u2019t change them.\u201D A crisis occurred with the family when the mother was to be admitted to hospital, and the father was desperate for someone to look after the three children. I was able to place the eldest daughter in one children\u2019s home, and the two boys in another. The children missed each other so terribly, and were so unhappy in their respective foster placements that I took them back to meet each other. When I saw them interacting with each other the first time I brought them together, I realised what an awful option we were pursuing, and concluded that the emphasis should always have been on supporting the family intensively. I took the children home to dad. I made a case to my head office to provide 20 hours of home help so that this family could be assisted, and the Lions Club agreed to commercially clean the property. When head office refused to provide support for a family in work, I made another case to head office with an estimate of what it would cost the State to care for the three children in foster homes. They then approved it immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EA lady from the local church offered to take on the job. She became a role model. The children quickly learnt new behaviours. The mother, despite her disabilities, became more involved, and life changed dramatically. Complaints from the school and others ceased. Family outings became regular and my \u201Cinspector\u201D was proved wrong. A few years later I followed up the case. The family had won the lottery. I wish that all my clients had won the lottery. The mother, who had succumbed to poor health, had died, and the children were doing just fine. For me this story confirms the resilience of families and that we should never be too eager to write off families when we find them at a low ebb. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThe importance of the early years for children, and their implications for families, is now accepted as the best approach to social well-being and positive human development. In my opinion, the best out-of-home site to locate support systems for our children and families is the school. New Zealand has an excellent framework for the delivery of education that locates our schools in the midst of the communities they serve. The huge plant and infrastructure that schools represent can be utilised much more effectively for the delivery of support during the early years. I had a role in pioneering school social work in New Zealand in the early 1990s, and now it has been generalised to several hundred schools. The potential for schools of the 21st century to be family resource centres is enormous, and, provided they are appropriately funded, they represent an opportunity that has yet to be maximised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EMost recently I was privileged to help establish the Families Commission. We are fortunate in New Zealand that we have an institution that is growing in stature with the unique but simple mandate to advocate for all New Zealand families in a manner that enhances their well-being and resilience. It is required to do this in consultation with families and the institutions that support them. They are also expected to undertake research, examine international systems, and provide policy advice and information to families. This is a very effective commission that quietly goes about delivering a high standard of work in a timely manner. In my view, it has one of the most talented and committed staff in this field, and their independence enables them to make proposals that are evidence based. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThose who criticise this commission have not had the benefit of fully understanding its legislated mandate, its completed work, and its ongoing work programme. The commission operates a solid scientific model to bring forward policy advice and provide information to families. I have the privilege to have worked with this group of people, and they walk with me in this Parliament as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003ESince the 1975 and 1987 reviews of immigration, and a shift from a white immigration policy to a merits-based policy, the cultural landscape of New Zealand has changed dramatically and irreversibly. I acknowledge the significance of New Zealand\u2019s ethnic communities and the sizable contribution they make to our society. Their impact on the lived experiences of New Zealanders is quite pervasive and extends beyond diet, language, friendships, and celebrations to impact on those who are included in our families and the ethnicities of our future grandchildren. This has happened, in my observation, with considerable speed and is a good omen for cultural acceptance and integration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThe real future challenge, however, for New Zealand is to develop a new cultural policy based on our creative diversity. According to one writer: \u201CUnless a country is united and cohesive, it cannot act as a single community able either to take and enforce collectively binding decisions or to regulate and resolve inescapable conflicts between its constituent communities. It also needs unity and cohesion to provide a focus for collective self-consciousness, to encourage a sense of common belonging and citizenship, and to foster a spirit of shared national identity, without all of which its members lack mutual trust and goodwill to make sacrifices and accept compromises required by the pursuit of the common good.\u201D I say thank you, to the many ethnic groups that I have worked with over the years, and especially members of my own community for their support and guidance. You all travel with me today to the forty-ninth Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EMuch has been said in the past few months about our troubling incidents of violence. Many promises have been made about how this will be fixed in quick time. While acknowledging the depth of concern about this and the need to address the problem, I want to caution against developing solutions that do nothing for the complex reasons behind violence. The record of Draconian measures that receive public support as the only response is not impressive in changing national performance. Well-thought-out measures, on the other hand, should be developed, implemented, evaluated, and reviewed as the considered response. The unintended consequence of producing a fractured society, even when trying to address a problem, must always be factored in. There are no silver bullets to resolving this problem, but it requires careful thought and planning. The stories of the victims of violence, including the children we have lost, also travel with me to the forty-ninth Parliament, and I commit to doing all I can to alter our national performance in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EA final group of people who travel with me to Parliament is made up of those who are the victims of leaky buildings. In particular, I think about those for whom their buildings are their homes, as opposed to those for whom they are an investment. The problem has been well publicised and many of us know of families whose mental health has suffered; some have taken their lives in desperation. Honourable members, if you have not done so already, I ask you to find out the extent of the problem in your areas and meet some of the desperate people who are victims. You will find their stories compelling. Many currently live in limbo and are out of pocket while lawyers, builders, and developers are benefiting enormously from their situation. I hope this can be resolved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EIn concluding my first address in this House, I acknowledge friends and supporters from my community who are here today, and thank them all for their friendship and guidance over the years. The well-being of all New Zealanders depends on a strong economy, strong families, and strong communities. The formula that national development is the product of a balance between economic development and social development is the most persuasive aspect of Labour Party philosophy and, therefore, in my view, the best vehicle to advance the interests of the people who have brought me here. I look forward to working with them over the next 3 years. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113na koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Dhanyabad and thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd139a8e2cac4f4697782a0626a99a1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd139a8e2cac4f4697782a0626a99a1d\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central): \u003C/span\u003EE te Pika, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Ki ng\u0101 mema o t\u0113nei Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. T\u0113nei e mihi ana ki ng\u0101 tangata whenua o Te Whanga-nui-a-Tara. Koutou n\u014D Taranaki Wh\u0101nui, n\u014D Te \u0100ti Awa. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker, and to all members of this House, greetings. I acknowledge the local tribes of Wellington, those of you of Taranaki Wh\u0101nui, and Te \u0100ti Awa. Greetings to you, greetings to you, and greetings to you all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, I first of all want to acknowledge and congratulate you on your election to the position of Speaker, and I want to pay my respects to the mana whenua of this place. I feel an enormous sense of privilege, gratitude, and history to stand here today in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EIn 1954 and 1957 my grandfather Bob Wilkie ran as the Labour candidate in the Wairarapa electorate\u2014a somewhat thankless task at the time. His advertisement in that long-lamented journal the Featherston Chronicle just before the 1957 election reads, in part: \u201CI believe it is the responsibility of all in prosperity to care for those in adversity; that the welfare of the nation in the future depends on the children of today, and every assistance financial and otherwise should be given to those who have undertaken the responsibilities of parenthood.\u201D Although times may have changed, the core values of social justice, community, and family that lie at the heart of my grandfather\u2019s words and the Labour Party\u2019s existence remain as important as ever today. I hope that Bob, who is in the gallery today, is proud that his grandson has made it to this place\u2014and I wish him a happy 89th birthday for tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThese values of social justice that drew me to the Labour Party, a party of principle and vision, are what drive me today. I believe that the fifth Labour Government took giant strides in the journey towards social justice. History will judge programmes like KiwiSaver, Working for Families, and 20 hours\u2019 free early childhood education as landmarks in our economic and social progress. I felt privileged to work with and for Helen Clark and Michael Cullen. They are true campaigners for social justice and people who have dedicated their adult lives to the betterment of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI stand here today\u2014I hope not unluckily\u2014as the 13th representative of the Wellington Central electorate since it was named as such in 1905. I am humbled by those who have gone before me. My predecessors have included people of remarkable talent and vision, such as Peter Fraser, whose legacy in the area of education I will return to; Frank Kitts and Dan Riddiford, men who played significant roles in shaping this great city outside of this House as well; and Fran Wilde, who showed enormous courage and fortitude in sponsoring the Homosexual Law Reform Bill through this House. Fran, of course, left Parliament to play a key role in the development of this absolutely, positively wonderful city, and she continues to serve the region today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EMy immediate predecessor, the Hon Marian Hobbs, was a tireless advocate for Wellington and for Labour values. She is principled, passionate, and honest. I could not have had a better teacher when it comes to representing the diverse communities of my electorate. I cannot promise to call everybody \u201Cdarling\u201D, \u201Cdearest\u201D, or \u201Cthingy\u201D, as Marian did, but I do give my commitment that I am first and foremost the MP for Wellington Central, and that I will stand up for all Wellingtonians and for the city and its beautiful environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI acknowledge in the House the two other cast members from the campaign that we called \u201CSurvivor: Wellington Central\u201D. The Hon Heather Roy and Sue Kedgley are both articulate and principled advocates for the causes they believe in, and they were warm and friendly in what was from time to time a difficult campaign. I venture to suggest that not many other campaigns dealt with water pistols and exploding Taser guns, but that is Wellington Central for you. I look forward to working with all MPs from the Wellington region to advance the well-being of our constituents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge those who have broken ground in Parliament. In particular, I salute my colleagues Maryan Street and Chris Carter. In his maiden speech 15 years ago Chris Carter said that he hoped his presence in the House would make it easier for other gays and lesbians to aspire to political office. For my part, I can say that it has. I am proud and comfortable with who I am. Being gay is part of who I am, just as is being a former diplomat, a fan of the mighty Ranfurly Shield - holding Wellington Lions, and a fan of New Zealand music and New Zealand literature. My political view is defined by my sexuality only inasmuch as it has given me an insight into how people can be marginalised and discriminated against, and how much I abhor that. I am lucky that I have largely grown up in a generation that is not fixated on issues such as sexual orientation. I am not\u2014and neither should others be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI am here today on the strength of support from my friends and family. In particular, I acknowledge the support and love of my partner, Alf. We are living proof that it pays not to stereotype\u2014we met playing rugby. I was the number eight and he was the half back; a great combination. I also have had the pleasure of sharing in the growing up of Alf\u2019s two children over the last 10 years, and of being part of his wider wh\u0101nau. Taku aroha i a koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI also take this opportunity to acknowledge other new and returning members across the House. For all the differences that we may have over the direction of this country and the policies that we need in order to get there, I know that they are here to do their best, and that they have worked hard to be here, and I salute them for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EMy ability to make it through the campaign and win in Wellington Central was down to the hard work and sacrifice of hundreds of people. Some of them are here today. I thank them all again. My campaign team in many ways mirrors the Wellington Central electorate\u2014argumentative, informed, creative, energetic, and young. And yes, we also had a few public servants in the campaign. Public servants have a right to participate in the political process, and I look forward to the new Government upholding its campaign promises to support and respect public servants. I suggest that a good place to start might be to stop referring to hard-working public servants as useless bureaucrats. I have been a public servant in this town, and I know that almost without exception, public servants give their total commitment to the Government of the day, whichever Government that may be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWellington is, of course, more than\u2014as Don McGlashan put it\u2014\u201Cthe suits and the briefcases along Lambton Quay\u201D. It is our most sustainable city. More people walk to work or take public transport than anywhere else in New Zealand. We need to do more to encourage that through better integrated, more reliable public transport services. Wellington Central is also home to the wonderful Karori Wildlife Sanctuary, which I encourage all members to visit, and other fantastic outdoor education facilities. A significant part of this is the town belt, a tremendous legacy to the city that surrounds the inner suburbs in green space. There are some questions around the legal status of the town belt, and from time to time land has been taken from it for other purposes. In consultation with the Wellington City Council and interested parties I plan to sponsor legislation in this House to ensure that the town belt remains in, and, just as appropriate, is returned to, public ownership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EAlong with the outdoor activities, Wellington\u2019s vibrancy is built around its creative sector. It is not hard to be swept along by the rich creative energy of this city. As the poet Lauris Edmond has put it, \u201CThis is the city of action, the world headquarters of the verb.\u201D I believe that one of the great legacies of the fifth Labour Government is the growing sense of pride and identity expressed through our arts and culture. This is more obvious in Wellington than perhaps anywhere else. Our creative industries not only are the centre of our social life and tourism but also are part of the growing businesses of this city. The future of the Wellington economy, as with the rest of New Zealand, relies on those who can establish sustainable businesses that leverage off our natural advantages and capitalise on innovation. In Wellington the self-styled Silicon Welly, a group of businesses led by young entrepreneurs, is leading the way in the development of software and information technology solutions that are being picked up around the globe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThere are, of course, many people in Wellington Central whose lives are a world away from selling software on the world stage. For many of them, substandard housing is a problem. Too many homes in this city are poorly insulated and overcrowded. This makes them unhealthy and energy inefficient. I believe we must, as a country, make a key priority the quality of our housing stock and the provision of adequate social housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWellington is also a place where many migrants and refugees begin their lives in New Zealand. We are a nation of migrants that benefits so much from each new wave of migration, yet I do not believe we do enough to support and welcome our newest New Zealanders. The bursting pride I saw from graduates at the Multicultural Learning and Support Services English language course last week here in Wellington needs to be matched by a strong commitment to support and work with them as they find their feet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI arrived in Wellington 14 years ago, looking to find my feet. I had grown up largely in Dunedin, in the cloak of a Presbyterian family, where my parents\u2014who are here today\u2014raised my two brothers and me to believe that we are all created equal, to treat others as we wish to be treated, and to work hard for our goals. They gave us love and support, and allowed us to dream but be practical with it, and I thank them for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI was interested in politics from an early age\u2014not, however, as early as my colleague Darren Hughes, whose first words as a baby, I understand, were \u201CMr Speaker\u201D. My political consciousness grew around some key events. I swelled with pride and too many sausage rolls from the school canteen as I saw David Lange on television at the Oxford Union debate. Not only could an overweight guy with glasses succeed but also New Zealand could stand up to world powers hell-bent on destroying each other, and us in the process. I was proud then of our independent stance on the world stage, and I was proud to play my part in later years, working at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and representing New Zealand at the UN in New York.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThrough the late 1980s and into the 1990s, I became distressed at the direction I saw Government take. The unfettered, market-knows-best, laissez-faire, user-pays philosophy did untold damage to my community. The Employment Contracts Act arrived in 1991. At the supermarket where I was working at that time to pay my way through school and university, I experienced firsthand our penal rates disappear, our conditions lost, and the value of our wages sink. I have never forgotten the impact of that law on working New Zealanders, and I have worked ever since to support the rights of workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EAt university I became involved in the fight against user-pays in education. I ended up as the student president at Otago University and, in turn, here in Wellington for the New Zealand University Students Association. I learnt a great deal as a student politician. I learnt to organise, I learnt to campaign, and I learnt what it meant to stand up for what you believed in. After one particularly rowdy but peaceful protest I was accused by a policeman of being the biggest quasi-terrorist in Dunedin. I told him I was trying to lose weight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EAbove all, I learnt that it is education that will make the difference to people achieving their potential in life. Peter Fraser and Clarence Beeby laid out the vision for the State\u2019s role in education in 1939: \u201Cthe government\u2019s objective broadly expressed, is that every person, whatever his level of academic ability, whether he be rich or poor, whether he live in town or country has a right, as a citizen, to a free education of the kind for which he is best fitted and to the fullest extent of his powers.\u201D Although much has changed in the intervening years, Fraser and Beeby\u2019s vision is the one that I come to Parliament determined to develop and make real for the 21st century.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWe have a great education system in New Zealand, staffed by dedicated professionals. We must build on that to ensure that it provides the basis for a strong, inclusive society going forward. There is not enough time today to talk about all the areas where we can work on this, but I want to make mention of one in particular. The current arrangements for funding of special-needs education need an urgent and serious review. Although successive Governments have put more money into this area, I know of parents who are still going through extreme stress to get the resources they are entitled to, and in some cases those resources are not sufficient. The Education Act says that every child in New Zealand has a right to an education. We have a responsibility to make that real.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EMy vision for making real the ideals of social justice that I spoke of earlier is a vision for a modern, inclusive New Zealand, where we equip our people with the skills and knowledge to succeed in an ever-globalising world, where we celebrate and promote diversity, and where we truly are our brother and sister\u2019s keepers. The solutions and ways to achieve this will not all be found in Wellington or in Government. My generation of politicians must be open to a range of potential solutions. They will be found in our communities and our families, on marae, and in workplaces. It is the job of Government and of politicians in general to bring those solutions together and to provide leadership and support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI want to help build a modern, inclusive New Zealand where we do not accept children growing up in poverty. I believe we should set goals to eliminate poverty in New Zealand, and work out a programme of redistribution that will see incomes and spirits lifted together. A modern, inclusive New Zealand also needs to be one that looks after our environment. The health of our natural environment is critical not only to our way of life but also to our economy. If we want people to stay in New Zealand, we need clean water to swim in and clean air to breathe. If we want carbon-conscious consumers across the world to buy our goods, or tourists who are spoiled for choice to choose to come here, then we need to be able to show that our 100 percent pure, clean, green image is a reality. Sadly, in many cases, it is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EA modern, inclusive New Zealand will be one where we do not build more jails but where we work with and across communities to ensure that people do not end up in prison in the first place. A modern, inclusive New Zealand needs to ensure that we acknowledge the place and role of M\u0101ori in New Zealand as tangata whenua in the Treaty of Waitangi. I would like to promote one small step in that regard. I believe that te reo M\u0101ori should be taught in all schools for all pupils up until at least age 14. Learning a language is one of the keys to understanding a culture, and in this case it is our own culture. This is one small step that we could take to build a more harmonious society. A modern, inclusive New Zealand will harness the best of being a Pacific nation. The emerging Pasifika communities in New Zealand need to be supported and developed, and those communities will also play an important role in New Zealand\u2019s place as a peacemaker and conflict-resolver in our region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EIn conclusion I say, quite simply, that the reason I entered the political arena was my belief in social justice. My desire is to play a part in making my community, city, country, and world a fairer and more equal place, because it is that equality that will drive aspiration, opportunity, and success for all. In my time in this Parliament, it is my commitment that I will work to build an ever better, fairer New Zealand, where we seek to ensure that achieving one\u2019s potential is not just the preserve of the privileged, but possible for all. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia kaha, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWaiata\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u002215241f467e0144d98f0fb9fe21957d6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215241f467e0144d98f0fb9fe21957d6a\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to extend the House sitting time into the dinner hour in order to allow the maiden speeches to be completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2aa4d1dd4374fc983a851e9d3e4e1a9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022 data-id=\u00222eff1cebcf904467aa6234f242a2698a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222eff1cebcf904467aa6234f242a2698a\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E As I stand to speak in this House for the first time, I wish to pay tribute to what has brought me here and to give some sense of what I hope to achieve as a member of this House. May I also, Mr Assistant Speaker, acknowledge your elevation and the Speech from the Throne from the Governor-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003ELike some other new members, mine is a migrant\u2019s story. In the early 1920s my dad\u2019s Uncle Mick fled grimy Liverpool, determined to find a better life than England offered him as a working man. He landed in Wellington, working and saving until the Depression hit. Only with the first Labour Government\u2019s election was he able to put a deposit on a house, and send for his wife and the son he had never met. They had been separated 15 years. Uncle Mick later encouraged my father, Jim, and my dear late mother, Julie, to come here. He told them it was a great place to bring up a family, and he was right. I still regularly thank my parents for having the courage to bring me and my five brothers and sisters to New Zealand when I was 4 years old. We were almost wholly bog Irish by extraction, Catholic and working class. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286a639deb1174cee90d8ded587b691d5\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: And proud of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dda9ab49c25488c843899452515702d\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: And proud of it. Fear of nuclear holocaust was another key trigger for leaving England at that time. As well as being early anti-nuclearists, my family shared other Labour values. We kids all got the opportunities afforded by a good Catholic and State education, and, apart from a bit of teasing as our accents faded, we were treated to genuine Kiwi fairness and tolerance. These values remain fundamental to the sort of Aotearoa New Zealand I wish to work for and live in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EI remember as a teenager making an unkind comment about someone being different. My father gently reminded me that our forebears had arrived in England from the potato famine poor, dirty, speaking a strange language, and professing another faith. They were treated like scum because they were different\u2014\u201CAnd remember\u201D, he said, \u201Cpeople are just people.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EWhat was true more than 150 years ago for \u00E9migr\u00E9 Irish peasants is as true today in my electorate of Christchurch Central, which hosts 100 ethnic minorities. Just last week one of my dedicated office staff assisted four Ethiopian orphans to arrive, somewhat wide-eyed, from Addis Ababa. An already resident family member is helping them start their new life in Christchurch. And so the cycle repeats. I think every one of us who is given opportunity and succeeds owes it to the next generation to provide the same equality of opportunity, to ensure that the same fairness and tolerance are provided to every New Zealand child, whether born in England, Ethiopia, Samoa, or Shirley. That must be the measure of a fair and caring society. You do not just take the opportunities provided to you and then pull up the ladder; you drop it down further so even more can come aboard. The engine room of our economy, the key to our future, is what happens in the classrooms of every State school within this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EI want to thank the voters of Christchurch Central who supported me and Labour on 8 November. I assure everyone who lives in this wonderfully eclectic and diverse electorate that I am here to represent them and their interests. My first priority is to do all that I can to help employers, unions, and business groups to retain any jobs that come under threat as the recession bites in Christchurch Central. It was very sobering to read the maiden speeches of some illustrious predecessors\u2014Sir Geoffrey Palmer, David Caygill, and Lianne Dalziel\u2014and be reminded just how recent was the scourge of high unemployment in my electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EI also wish to acknowledge the extraordinary work of Tim Barnett. Tim was legendary in his devotion to the constituents of Christchurch Central. He was also generous, accommodating, and supportive of me as a candidate, right up to doorknocking on election day. Just hours before he left the country we bundled him out of the electorate office, still trying to pass on files and notes. He and his partner, Ramon, are now enjoying a well-earned break before taking on new challenges. I am sure that this House wishes them well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EThe Christchurch Central electorate is the jewel in the crown of Christchurch. It encompasses all of the splendour of Hagley Park, the city\u2019s museum and hospital complex, our new, iconic art gallery, and the country\u2019s best Edwardian heritage buildings as well as apartment complexes. If you have not had a recent holiday in Christchurch, then come and experience all that it has to offer. The electorate is also home to AMI Stadium and to the mighty Crusaders, so perhaps you might time your visit to come and see your home team play\u2014and be beaten. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EMy electorate includes some of the country\u2019s wealthiest streets. But it is home too to some of the nation\u2019s poorest people. We have among the highest figures for those renting, those living alone, and those on sickness and invalids benefits. Some of the housing stock in Christchurch Central is shameful. Too many houses are best described as wooden tents. They are among the 1 million New Zealand homes that still have no insulation or are not properly insulated. This is unacceptable in a First World nation in the 21st century, especially in a city where winter daytime temperatures can sometimes numbingly remain in single figures. To be warm in the place you call home is a basic human right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EThe Labour-led Government forged an agreement with the Green Party to address this through a 15-year programme. I say to the new Government that there are few other initiatives with so many benefits: lower power bills, less pressure on the health system from cold people getting sick, and reduced demand on our energy system and on our planet. The New Zealand Business Council for Sustainable Development has just reported that nearly $5 billion in energy savings could be had in the next decade through insulating every home. That is $300 per household every year. This is infrastructure every bit as beneficial as roads and broadband. And with building firms laying off staff in the face of recession, I say now is the time to insulate New Zealand homes, especially in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EAnother matter of prime importance to Christchurch Central is reform of the liquor laws. At weekends our city\u2019s numerous bars and cafes attract thousands of people, locals and tourists alike. Unfortunately, many people arrive there in an already grossly intoxicated state. Often they are refused access to licensed premises, but despite a ban on drinking in our inner city streets people can then buy alcohol from nearby dairies and supermarkets. Police and hospital authorities estimate that 70 percent or more of weekend crime and injuries in Christchurch are accounted for by alcohol. I suspect it will not be greatly different for any other community represented in this House. Liquor legislation is difficult to get right. In part, I think that is because it remains a conscience vote for members, a residue from the pro-temperance push early last century. As further liquor legislation looms in the course of this Parliament, I suggest it is timely for parties to consider whether such law changes should become matters of party policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to have water quality among my Labour spokesperson duties. Water will be a defining issue for our future as climate change hits and as demand increases. Christchurch enjoys perhaps the best drinking-water in the world. Meanwhile, Canterbury accounts for two-thirds of the nation\u2019s irrigation. Much of the new demand has been driven by corporate-scale dairy farming, with Canterbury farms nearly twice the national average size. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EI am far from being opposed to development. I was instrumental in setting up an economic development trust in Marlborough, but we must have development that is both economically and environmentally sustainable. Dairy farming is already a key contributor to making it dangerous to swim in many Canterbury streams and rivers, let alone to drink the water. Effluent is a real problem, but more sinister are the poisonous nitrates from urea fertiliser that can take decades to seep into water supplies. When water allocation is on a \u201Cfirst in, first served\u201D basis, with little real cost to the user, we are simply encouraging rampant growth where the environment is always going to come second. We need a new allocation model for water that recognises its primary importance to every New Zealander, not just the landowner who owns a thin mantle of soil above an aquifer or adjoining a river. Water is a common good. It belongs to every one of us and we should all have a say in how it gets used and what for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EMy other shadow portfolio is broadcasting. My working life began as a broadcasting journalist, and I still regard Radio New Zealand as a national taonga. In an ever digitising, increasingly commercial and converging world, it is imperative to retain State-owned radio and television to ensure New Zealand content is delivered and our sense of identity is developed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EI come to this House with strong, established beliefs in its traditions and its democratic values. For 12 years I sat up there in the parliamentary press gallery\u2014there were probably a few more of us in our time: I am not sure whether that makes me gamekeeper turned poacher, or vice versa. I believe I am the first former gallery member to be elected to Parliament since Sir Frederick Doidge 70 years ago. Although I was never shy of expressing strong opinions as a journalist, as some may attest, I always retained a healthy respect for members of Parliament on both sides of the House, not least for the onerous workload I can only now truly appreciate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EI wish to acknowledge my former profession, but observe it is increasingly difficult for journalists to do justice to their calling in an environment of endless cost-cutting. To give just one example, there is now virtually no coverage of election candidate meetings in main centres by major media. How can the media be a public watchdog when the chain keeps getting ever shorter? Many embark on this journey to the House\u2014some of us more than once\u2014but rather fewer arrive. I am here now only because in early 2002 I went as a newspaper editor to a Marlborough mussel factory. Helen Clark opened it and she made everyone in that audience, me included, feel just so proud to be a New Zealander. I got a lift back into town with her. A fortnight later, I was the Labour candidate for Kaik\u014Dura. I was privileged to then work for Helen in the Prime Minister\u2019s office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EBut the greatest honour and privilege of all is entering this House, being part of a strong and well-led Labour caucus, and, I hope, being of service to my electorate, to this Parliament, and to the nation. Being able to do that results from a harmonious and hard-working Labour team in Christchurch Central, ably led by our campaign manager, Pam Wheeler, and secretary, Coral Hodgson. To them and many others I cannot name, thank you. Can I say also to my National opponent, Nicky Wagner, that I look forward to working together in the wider interests of Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to acknowledge my wife, Philippa, who is here in the gallery today with friends and family, and with whom I have shared every step of this journey, and to thank our daughters Hannah and Rachel and my sister Julie for their love and support. Sadly, my mother passed away in August during the election campaign and my father is too frail to travel, but I know they are also here in spirit with me today. In the same way as they and my Uncle Mick came here to give others opportunity, I come to this Parliament to help ensure my daughters\u2019 generation and those that follow can enjoy all the opportunities that this blessed nation of Aotearoa New Zealand can and must provide to all its people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022 data-id=\u00229f5e715ef7544291a8ed350cc3aa315e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f5e715ef7544291a8ed350cc3aa315e\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Ki te whai ao, ki te ao m\u0101rama. Tihei mauri ora. Ko te mea tuatahi, me mihi ahau ki Te Runga Rawa n\u0101na nei ng\u0101 mea katoa. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Papat\u016B\u0101nuku te whaea e takoto nei, Ranginui e t\u016B nei, t\u0113n\u0101 k\u014Drua. Ka mihi m\u014D ng\u0101 mate, ka tangihia e t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei w\u0101. N\u014D reira, e ng\u0101 mate, haere, haere, haere ki Hawaiki nui, ki Hawaiki roa, ki Hawaiki p\u0101mamao. \u0100piti hono, t\u0101tai hono, te hunga mate ki te hunga mate. Ki te hunga ora, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Ng\u0101 mihi m\u014D ng\u0101 mana whenua o t\u0113nei rohe, Te \u0100ti Awa me Ng\u0101ti Toa Rangatira hoki, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Ng\u0101 mihi ki ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata whenua o Aotearoa, mai i Te Ika a M\u0101ui tae noa ki Te Wai Pounamu me ng\u0101 iwi katoa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. In\u0101ianei ka huri ahau ki te k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki te kaupapa o t\u0113nei w\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003E[To the world of light and enlightenment, \u2019tis the sneeze of life. The first thing for me to do is to acknowledge the Almighty Above, who created everything. Bless you. To Mother Earth lying here, and Sky Father standing before us, greetings to you two. I pay a tribute to the departed whom we mourn for today. Farewell, depart, journey on to the great Hawaiki, the long Hawaiki, and the distant Hawaiki. Let the dead be bound and bonded to each other. Greetings to you, the living, and the guardians of this region, Te \u0100ti Awa and Ng\u0101ti Toa Rangatira, greetings. I acknowledge the indigenous people of New Zealand from the North Island to the South Island. To you and everyone, greetings. I turn now to the topic of this address.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EI opened in M\u0101ori because I believe my first words in this House should be in the first language of this country. Earlier this week I took up my place in the House, declaring allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen, but I take this opportunity to also declare my intent to honour the commitment made by her ancestor, which is the Treaty of Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EI come to this House hoping to make a significant personal contribution to those issues that are important to me, most especially the future of the planet upon which we live and depend, and the type of society that our children and our grandchildren will inherit. It is perhaps fanciful to think of my own personal contribution, and more appropriate to instead acknowledge that my role is as one of many: those who have come before and those who will come after me, and those many working today in the very many aspects of the national and international Green movement. I salute you all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EBeing elected as a list MP perhaps brings a particular awareness that my being here is not a result of my work but a result of the work of very many others. I want to particularly acknowledge some of them. First of all, I acknowledge my family: my father, Chaz Hague; my brother and my sister-in-law, Stewart and Bronwyn Hague, who are in the Gallery today; and my partner, Ian, and my son, Thomas, who are not here today. I owe you all a great debt. I express my love and I promise to do my best to repay that debt. I acknowledge those others in the Gallery; Green Party staff, members, and supporters; my fellow Green Party MPs; those who may be listening or watching in New Zealand and around the world; my wider family; my friends; those who worked so hard to maximise the Green Party vote at this election, particularly in West Coast - Tasman; and, indeed, members of the worldwide movement of Green parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EI want to explicitly acknowledge that I have friends from other parties in this Parliament and previous Parliaments. We all come to this House with differing personal philosophies but, I hope, a shared commitment to those whom we serve and to future generations. I give you an undertaking that I will listen to what you have to say, and I hope that you will offer to reciprocate that commitment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EI am conscious that I come to this Parliament bringing with me the hopes and expectations of many, and I want to itemise some of those. There are cyclists, who want to see roads safe and well-engineered for all road users, or who see the fantastic potential of a national network of off-road cycling tracks. I acknowledge the Kennett brothers, who have launched today their latest edition of Classic New Zealand Mountain Bike Rides. There are those who love wild rivers, who hope for a new economics that values intrinsic natural characteristics and recreational use, instead of just easily measured short-term financial gain. There are gay men, lesbian women, and the wider rainbow family, who demand truly equal rights and equal opportunity. There are those who work in public health, who know that the health of a population is largely a reflection of the power it has over its own circumstances and the environment surrounding it, and that good health improvement can result only from political will. Let us provide that. There are those people who understand that the same formula of empowering communities and creating supportive environments is also the answer for problems in education, in social welfare, in criminal offending, and in many other areas. Indeed, these are not separate problems, but all in large part manifestations of a common cause\u2014marginalisation. Let us fix that, too. Also there are those many New Zealanders who believe that our collective future depends on a relationship between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori that honours the Treaty of Waitangi, and, finally, the many who hope for a better future for our kids and for our planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EThat is what I call a politics of aspiration. I guess my potential to disappoint is great! But I do not experience these expectations as a crushing or repressive weight, but, rather, as a surging wave that lifts me up and sustains me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EThe challenges we face are very great indeed. Our biggest obstacle, as New Scientist recently reported in a grim edition that pales the international credit crisis into insignificance, is a world economy geared to the sole aim of economic growth. Growth is not inherently bad, but the indiscriminate approach to growth that sees any type of growth as good is our problem. Growth based on the increased use of non-renewable resources is by definition unsustainable, and occurs at massive and irreversible cost to future generations. Growth achieved through the bubble economics of speculation is exploitation of another sort, where the non-renewable resource is human dignity and human happiness. We must change to an economy of sustainability as a matter of urgency. We know this, but we have not done so, because of investment in the status quo\u2014both direct, financial, literal investment and emotional investment, which brings fear of the changes that will be necessary to achieve sustainable living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EOne of the strengths brought to this House by the Green Party is our charter, which is based on four solid principles: ecological wisdom, social responsibility, appropriate decision-making, and non-violence. I absolutely reject the idea that ethical or moral behaviour has its only source in religious faith. On the contrary, my personal philosophy presupposes that there is no higher power that has, for some reason, disadvantaged some people and, conversely, privileged others, or that will intervene to rectify this disparity or compensate its victims. In the absence of such external power, the responsibility for determining how we should live together and the responsibility for acting to achieve that state is solely, but collectively, ours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EOnly two coherent philosophies are possible: survival of the fittest, with no regard to the effect on any other person, or a world in which we recognise our interdependence and have respect for the equal and inalienable rights of every person. I have a passionate adherence to the second of these belief systems. Effectively, this personal belief of mine is the equivalent of the social responsibility principle in our charter. It has echoes in the idea of \u201Cto each according to their need; from each according to their means\u201D, or, in my personal motivator, \u201CIf not me, then who? If not now, then when?\u201D. This is, for me, at the heart of my feelings of self-worth\u2014that I have acted in an ethical and honourable way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EWhat are these inalienable rights that each person is entitled to? Eleanor Roosevelt, who was the driving force behind the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, talked about equal justice, equal dignity, and equal opportunity without discrimination. Another valuable right to conceptualise is autonomy, provided that the exercise of that autonomy does not reduce that of another person. For me the opportunity to make decisions affecting one\u2019s own life, tempered only by the effect of those decisions on others, is driven directly from this idea, and is exactly the idea captured by our principles of appropriate decision-making and non-violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EHowever, it is the principle of ecological wisdom that is my greatest motivation for standing here today. In the same way that first-principles thinking leads me to a bedrock belief in universal human rights, this thinking also leads me to consider the rest of the natural world, not only from the perspective of resources that are necessary for the sustenance of human life but also from the perspective of the rights or intrinsic value of entities in their natural state. My personal principle is to take only what resources I need from the natural world and to harm the natural world to the least extent possible. This is the thinking behind my being vegetarian for nearly 30 years. But regardless of whether our attitude to the natural world is driven by philosophy, as mine is, or by the more pragmatic considerations of what is required for human beings to survive, the logical consequence is ecological wisdom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EMy sense of urgency comes from the growing unease and certainty that I have that the human race is reaching, or has reached, some fundamental limits to its ability to take from the natural world. But we are not yet responding appropriately. Human beings are not well adapted to deal with gradually unfolding risk, or dangers that are rare but catastrophic, and our inaction now imperils the human rights of those generations yet to come. In the words of Lester Brown, \u201CWe are crossing natural thresholds that we cannot see and violating deadlines that we do not recognise. Nature is the timekeeper, but we cannot see the clock. \u2026 We are in a race between tipping points in the earth\u2019s natural systems and those in the world\u2019s political systems. Which will tip first?\u201D. In the past, we have been saved from the consequences of our inadequate responses by technological advance. Although technology may now help us, it is currently ill-directed and it will not be enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EAt a time when, across the world, a small flame of hope has been kindled for the future of the human race and for the planet by the election of Barack Obama, I am reminded of events that are 40 years old. One of my childhood memories is from 1968 in my grandparents\u2019 house: a hush upon us all and tears streaming down my mother\u2019s face as we heard of the death of Bobby Kennedy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EAs a new Green Party MP, I am particularly conscious that I am standing on the shoulders of giants. When I greeted those who have passed on in my introductory remarks, I thought, of course, of Rod Donald. But I also thought of my mother and my sister, both of whom also died too young and did not live to see this day. I dedicate my time in Parliament to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EI know that some of you will look at the size of the problems we face and see them as insurmountable\u2014that nothing that any one person can do will make any difference. Margaret Mead pointed out that, in fact, it is only the actions of individuals that make any difference. My own experience has incorporated many issues where the odds seemed hopeless, but the steadfast application of individuals made all the difference. The most notable of these was the anti-apartheid movement, where the apparently impregnable fortress of apartheid was brought down by the actions of individuals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003EIn June 1966 Bobby Kennedy spoke in Cape Town to the National Union of South African Students\u2019 Day of Affirmation, and said this: \u201CEach time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.\u201D Let us now cast our pebbles into the pond. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, huri noa, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dde9bdb151034a908e40916b4d810d59\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.08 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002214ef38759dac4c8b9277d0a43525bbb1\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022071cb8acdc14499084d96b2df290dc03\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000800\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u00229b3bc7262f4f4955be00d5d4b1af4c7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b3bc7262f4f4955be00d5d4b1af4c7f\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Having heard eight excellent maiden speeches, I rise to address the second reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EJust a month after the election, Parliament is in urgency and we are putting through this legislation. We are delivering on the promises we made during the election campaign. Those promises were well canvassed throughout the election period and were, I might add, clearly part of the 100-day agenda that we took to the public and that is now being put through the House. It is excellent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EAs stated in clause 4, \u201CPurpose\u201D, this bill introduces a 90-day grievance-free probation period. This proposal has been well canvassed around the country\u2014particularly in 2006-07 when Dr Wayne Mapp first put forward the predecessor to the bill. This legislation will make labour markets a little more flexible and is part of the recipe that National proposed and is now implementing to lift economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EThe Hon Lianne Dalziel, formerly the Minister for Small Business, made a very interesting point earlier in the debate. She talked about her pride and joy, the Small Business Advisory Group. It is an important group that she selected and got up and running. That group put out a report about the key things that would help to drive small business across New Zealand. One of the top recommendations\u2014in fact, I believe that it was No. 1 or No. 2\u2014was to introduce a 90-day grievance-free probation period. Funnily enough, after that recommendation had been on the agenda for a couple of years, the same group returned a report to the House on the performance of the Minister and the Labour-led Government with regard to those criteria, and the Minister received a score of two out of 10 for the delivery of a number of key recommendations. I would not have thought that that was a great score, but the Minister was proud of her achievements and was happy to move on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EWe are introducing this 90-day bill today. As I said, the proposal was well canvassed in 2006 when Dr Mapp first brought the predecessor to this bill to the House. That bill has been watered down quite significantly, but the proposal was again well canvassed during the election campaign. This legislation is opposed by Labour members in typical fashion as they seek to create myth upon myth about its possible horrendous outcomes. These myths are propagated to feather their own political nests. For example, the Hon Annette King suggested earlier that businesses would stop growing once they had 20 employees. Please! I shouted across the floor to the member that people do not go into business just to stop when they have taken on 20 employees. They are passionate about growing their businesses; they put their heart and soul into them. If they are fortunate enough to have a successful business that grows and grows, they are hardly going to haul on the handbrake because they have reached 20 employees. That is just insane and will not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EThe classic myth\u2014the myth of all myths\u2014is that employers who have had employees on board for 89 days will then sack them. Once again, that myth has been propagated by just about every speaker on the other side of the House. It is unbelievable; it just does not happen. In the real world, if employees are even half good, employers wrap them in cotton wool and hold on to them because they add value to the organisation and help to take it forward. The last thing an employer would do is sack an employee on his or her 89th day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EI really think Labour is creating a whole raft of myths to scare people about this legislation, when in fact there is no need. People who start a small business invest a big chunk of their lives in it. They might mortgage their house or borrow money off their mum and dad to get into the business. They do the hard yards. They have to work as long as or longer than the politicians who work through urgency in this House. Once their employees have gone home, they have to work on their tax returns, their PAYE, and their fringe benefit tax (FBT)\u2014maybe from 12 o\u2019clock at night until 2 in the morning. They put their heart and soul into their business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204e53c9e03ec4e05b778ce0f04a80ba6\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222bc2a9e6968448cb36419dcb0f2dc54\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: A load of rubbish? That clearly shows that members on that side of the House have had no involvement in small business. I have a lot of respect for the member but he should not go there with me. He says that small-business owners are not out there at midnight doing the hard yards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297ab786ec88f43d89ce97fc83330e3f9\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: At least I built mine! You got yours off your old man. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226daf6722f921439493f6b975cd255874\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Horomia that for small-business owners who are on their own, the only time they get to do things such as PAYE and FBT returns is after 5 o\u2019clock when their shop shuts and sales are stopped. We need to be flexible; we need to provide a flexible labour market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003EAnother former Minister, Jim Anderton, admitted in the House that by far the majority of employers are good employers. That was good to hear, because it is true. By far the majority of small-business people are good employers. In my own experience of 16 years in business, we wrapped people in cotton wool and looked after them. If we found good employees, we were in good shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003ETo wind up my speech, I say that if we are to grow the economy, we need law that helps the majority of small businesses\u2014we really do. That is what we need. In the first 100 days of our legislative agenda, we need to pass law such as this that will drive our economy forward. I support this bill on that basis. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022 data-id=\u00228747389d31eb4e8b941513a637cf9a6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228747389d31eb4e8b941513a637cf9a6c\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I will record quite a rare moment in the history of this Parliament by agreeing\u2014briefly though it will be\u2014with something Chris Tremain said. This is unheard of and is unlikely to occur again in the future. I too am proud of the values and the commitment shown by those who have given their maiden speeches over the last couple of days. Obviously, I have a bias towards the Labour members, as I am sure Chris Tremain has a bias towards the others. What is really interesting is that everyone who has made a speech, from whichever perspective, has come here believing they have a contribution to make. They have come here to contribute in a way that is indicative of the public service values we have in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EI was reflecting on that after we heard the Green Party member Kevin Hague\u2019s speech. I was thinking that if I were the Minister of Labour now and had just introduced this bill, and someone had asked me what I had contributed in Parliament, how proud would I feel to say that my first bill as the Minister of Labour\u2014my significant contribution, my commitment, to improving the quality of life for ordinary New Zealanders\u2014would take away employment rights from 700,000 New Zealanders every year? I feel for Kate Wilkinson because I am sure that when she became a member of this House she did not make that commitment in her maiden speech; it was not what she aspired to do. I regret that she is not able to give something to the more vulnerable people in our communities, but instead has chosen to use her time as Minister to take something away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EAccording to the speeches and rhetoric of National members, this bill purports to open job opportunities. The challenge that employers up and down the country face, and have faced for several years\u2014it will diminish over the next little while, but not a lot\u2014is to find skilled staff to fill their job vacancies. That is the challenge that every employer talks about. That is why Labour put so much emphasis on ensuring that that skills match was connected\u2014that the people who were out of work were connected with the labour market. More fundamentally, we ensured that when employees went into a job, they were working in an environment where their contribution was respected and valued, where they were encouraged to make a stronger contribution in the future, where they were part of the business, and where they could contribute to and make better opportunities for their own families and other workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson said in her opening comments during the first reading debate tonight that this bill is not about taking away rights, but that was exactly the opposite of the truth. This bill is only about taking away rights. In fact, it even refers to section 67 of the Employment Relations Act, which has provision in it for a probationary period. It is referred to as a trial period, so in order to make this amendment look less foolish than it actually is\u2014and, by crikey, that was a bit of a challenge\u2014they have to take the word \u201Ctrial\u201D out of section 67 because otherwise it will be blindingly obvious, even to the National backbench, that we will have two trial periods in the same Act. As well as inserting the National Government\u2019s term \u201Ctrial period\u201D, they have to take the existing words \u201Ctrial period\u201D out of section 67, and then remove the rights that go with that current probationary period or trial period. It is even referred to as a trial period in section 67. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EWe on this side of the House understand the issues that some people face in getting a job. We understand the issues that employers face when recruiting, particularly for small businesses. They may not have the expertise or the additional resources required to go through a rigorous recruitment process. That is why section 67 is in the Act. That is why there is specific legislative provision for a probationary period, where a person\u2019s rights in the case of an unjustified dismissal are enshrined in legislation. But employees are clearly on trial during that probationary period. If employers do not know about it\u2014and clearly the National backbench did not know about it\u2014then the Minister of Labour now has it within her mandate to promote section 67 to ensure that it is used to give the solutions that she says are so apparent, which no one else in the employer work force seems to be aware of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003ETaking away a worker\u2019s rights, particularly in this time of financial stress and insecurity, is not just unnecessary but a cruel thing to do. There is no need to take away a worker\u2019s employment rights when he or she is unjustifiably dismissed, which is exactly when their employment rights go. So it appears that unjustified dismissal is OK if it is within the first 3 months of someone\u2019s job. That is just ludicrous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EI want to refer briefly to something one of the ACT contributors said, and I regret deeply that I am not able to recall his name just at the moment. He mentioned that this side of the House was pretty negative about employers. I want to put on record a correction about that misunderstanding of our view. This is not about bad employers, actually. This is about bad law that a small number of employers may be able to take advantage of. I am sure that the overwhelming majority of employers in New Zealand would like to recruit well, would like to recruit the best person for the job and be able to do that within their resources, and that the person turns out perfectly\u2014but some do not, despite everyone\u2019s best efforts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EI know that the overwhelming majority of employers not only want to but do treat their workforce more than fairly\u2014in fact, very well\u2014in all sorts of areas that are outside their legislative requirements. But what this bill does is say that we are prepared to have bad law in our country. We are lowering the standard of fairness that we currently expect in our workplace. That is what the law requires at the moment. It requires a dismissal to be fair, and this proposed amendment to the Employment Relations Act lowers the threshold to the point where it can be unjustified. In this bill, an explanation for a dismissal does not even have to be given by the employer to the employee. One cannot get more discourteous than that. What does that do to a young worker\u2014when he or she is sacked and does not even know why? How does that make a young Pacific worker from Maungakiekie feel about his or her future role in New Zealand society? I ask the member Sam Lotu-liga how his constituents would feel if that happened to them. That is what the law says. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EThe law says that not only can they be unjustifiably dismissed but they do not even have to be given an explanation. But the Minister says that is OK because they agreed to it. It has to be an agreement between an employer and an employee. The choice for some workers is the choice between taking it or leaving it. If this is the law, then those unscrupulous employers know that the law says it is all right for them to behave in that way. We are often criticised in this House for our standards of behaviour. I agree with the criticism on many occasions, and I have been party to low standards of behaviour in this House, as I am sure every single member\u2014except the newbies, who soon will\u2014has been in the past. But we should not take that bad behaviour as an opportunity to pass bad law whereby unscrupulous employers\u2014and there will be only a few\u2014can say: \u201CBut Parliament said it is all right. Parliament said that this is acceptable practice.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003EI conclude by asking the Minister of Labour whether this bill is really what she wants on her record as being the first piece of legislation bearing her name as the Minister of Labour. I cannot imagine that any member would say in his or her their maiden speech: \u201CI would be proud to have in my name legislation to remove the employment rights of 700,000 workers for the first 3 months they are in their jobs.\u201D Added to the list of broken promises, and the shambles of the House of the last few days, is $730 million over 5 years that low-paid workers have been jilted on, and now they get to lose their employment rights. This will be a hard Christmas for many New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022 data-id=\u002276beef9399f645ef828b15d2efc27146\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276beef9399f645ef828b15d2efc27146\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I am here to talk about the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I do not wish to repeat what has already been stated by both sides of the House; I want to add my perspective as the member of Parliament for Maungakiekie. I am glad that the former Minister actually asked about the Pasifika worker in Maungakiekie, because I have talked to hundreds of Pasifika workers in Maungakiekie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b222ce162e69430bac1ff6ffd760af89\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Which factories?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208962c23826e47298e3491c21e8dc7d9\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Sanitarium, Coca-Cola\u2014does the member want me to keep going? All right; I am happy to take any member from that side of the House to Maungakiekie, not for a photo opportunity but to talk to the people\u2014the people who voted for National, by the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EI preface these statements by saying there has been a lot of talk about theory in this House. There has been a lot of talk about \u201Cthe worker\u201D. Well, I can safely say that I have been one of those workers. I have been a worker who has spent 12 hours a day\u2014even 12 hours a night\u2014at UEB Industries, and 12 hours a night at Deka, and I am happy to show some of our fellow MPs what real work is about. We dealt with 30-kilogram rice sacks and 40-foot containers, and I am happy to show my fellow members of Parliament what hard work is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EThat is fine, but I do not want to talk to members about myself. It is not about me; it is about the workers. I am happy that my Labour colleagues have asked about workers, because the workers I talk to\u2014the workers who are looking for opportunities currently, the workers who are suffering after 9 years of Labour rule in this country\u2014are saying to me that it is really about opportunity. It is about the opportunity to get a role in a business. It is about the opportunity for workers to at least be given the opportunity to prove themselves\u2014to turn up to work and to give a good day\u2019s work\u2014and to get paid well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b73025f7f34e5199a028e80538320e\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Do you know they are allowed to do that now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9013876b36b46f0878dba444fcf7d9f\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: They are, but this bill is about employers who put funds into a business. I have been an employer, as well, and it is hard to put capital into a business and then have a relationship break down. Within the 3 months that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269a234bd74c84ae5886090b61fdc3a48\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not easy for workers, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e530043513f34c7cb5440709bb2aaaee\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not easy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1bcdae9f14b4444a20e038b32ce892a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: So why write them off? Why abandon the workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0ee44417a0040bcabff9463aaee4df0\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Let me tell the member about a prisoner called Chris, because I can point to real examples. It is not theory\u2014there is no theory. Chris was in P\u0101remoremo prison. I attended his parole hearing and we got him out. I went with him to interviews where he could not get a job. He had ticked the box that said \u201CI am an ex-convict\u201D. Employers just were not willing to take the risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f760cc731b5418cafe2758569d671f2\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did he ask for a trial?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a04c257ea93f41cb8bcfbd76516a2071\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: I can speak only for Maungakiekie, not Hutt South, and employers in Maungakiekie have said: \u201CIf you give us a 90-day probation period, then we\u2019ll be able to make those investments in people.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab2eb6b6206049c795234f55b624a78f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you can do that under the law now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffd4adc64f9a4bd69efff752d5ef182e\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and that is fine. I will talk to members about Sione in Panmure, which is supposedly heartland Labour. Sione was struggling to get a job. Sione could not pay for his kids\u2019 Christmas presents. Sione was struggling, and I said to him: \u201CCome with me and let\u2019s go and talk to some employers in the Panmure area.\u201D It is really tough right now, and this bill will allow young companies that do not have funds to take a risk to employ people they would not otherwise employ.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003ESome members from the other side talked about hiring foreign workers. Last Friday afternoon I was in a clothing plant in Onehunga\u2014and Onehunga is in Maungakiekie\u2014and the employers there were saying that 90 percent of their workforce are foreign-born. Employers really are crying out for help, but they cannot take a risk on employees who would come in but, just maybe, not be able to perform within 3 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd676d58f5954eb0b5a370aa65dbf3d7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the member saying? He\u2019s not being consistent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022476d1a4058594ebf916eaef1168293e0\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: This is about choice. It really is. The employee and the employer will be able to agree on, and sign, a written agreement for a 90-day probation period. It really is about that. That is all I will say about the experiences I have had as an employee and as an employer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003EFunnily enough, it is also about the experiences I have had with union members. On Saturday night I had the privilege of talking to a number of union members in my electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022772b401e70f34395b8b6e1ed5456f019\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Did you? Who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eb6959f43654cc89a6bce30130705bf\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to name names. It happened to be the next president of the Labour Party, Andrew Little, and a number of his Amalgamated Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union friends, and I was happy to have that dialogue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2e883879b4d4e7cb1d9b8fb17d26a6a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s never been the president of our party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238d06a8b261a48ea9dd213500119c401\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: He is the next president. I was happy to have the dialogue. We had a pleasant dialogue. He stated his case for why he disagreed with this bill and I stated my case. It was a pleasant dialogue. I still respect the man, and that is what this democracy is about. This bill will improve the opportunities for working class people. That is what it is about. Mr Assistant Speaker, I thank the House for its time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022 data-id=\u002202c19baff8ca40acb8cfe19290477d4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202c19baff8ca40acb8cfe19290477d4f\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That was an interesting contribution from the member for Maungakiekie. May I tell him that I know many of the union members who work in Maungakiekie. In fact, I have represented them for many, many years; I can name them. There are the workers at Sanitarium, who were prevented from joining the union for years and years and years; the workers from Coca-Cola, who would not have a bar of this bill; and the workers from Pernod Ricard, in his electorate. There are rest home workers, cleaners, and school cleaners and caretakers. Come on\u2014this bill is another kick in the guts for workers. That is what it is; it is another Christmas present from the National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government to the workers of New Zealand\u2014happy Christmas! First, it was tax increases for low-paid workers. Then it was cuts to KiwiSaver. Now the recycled, hand-me-down, Wayne Mapp bill has been dredged up from the dark ages of Don Brash and his cohorts as some kind of economic silver bullet. Is the answer to New Zealand\u2019s economic problems the ability to sack workers more easily? Hey, come on! Is that what being ambitious for New Zealand means? Is that what John Key meant? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EThe new Minister of Labour, Kate Wilkinson, is not ambitious. Now that she has got the ministerial warrant, the BMW, the big house, and the huge pay increase she is showing how unambitious she is for New Zealand workers. The first thing she is doing in her job is cut workers\u2019 rights, and she is doing it under urgency. That is a disgrace. In the last Parliament Kate Wilkinson railed against urgency when Labour closed the KiwiSaver loophole\u2014through a Supplementary Order Paper\u2014which, of course, this bill opens up again. She said then, very sanctimoniously, that the amendment had not been subject to proper scrutiny. It had not been subject to consultation. It had not been subject to scrutiny by the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. The public had not been permitted to submit on it and to give their views. She said: \u201CIt is a sad, sad day for democracy in New Zealand.\u201D, and \u201CThis is a disgrace. It is a total abuse of process.\u201D Well, hello\u2014it seems that it is a disgrace and an abuse of process when Labour tries to improve the rights of workers, but when National, ACT, and the M\u0101ori Party want to take away the rights of workers it is not an abuse of process; it is just getting on with fixing the economic problems of the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EThe Government is right about one thing. These issues were debated in the last Parliament via Wayne Mapp\u2019s members bill, but let us not forget that that bill was defeated. It was defeated when submitter after submitter\u2014527 of them\u2014came along and said, no, they did not want that in New Zealand. Workers marched and rallied in opposition to that bill. Perhaps that is why this bill is being rushed through under urgency. Perhaps it is because the National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government does not want to see workers rallying before Christmas. That would be embarrassing; it would remind New Zealanders of the real agenda of the Government they have elected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party was forced to abandon its support for Wayne Mapp\u2019s bill after it saw the opposition to it. It is good that the M\u0101ori Party is not supporting this bill, but I say to the M\u0101ori Party that that is actually a pretty meaningless gesture because that party had a chance, in its confidence and supply agreement with the National Party, to make gains for workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a048a99e42df4a7dbdc14f04d0399517\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4f17ab9e9e1477aa5db0a8123461101\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it did. It could have ensured that this bill never again saw the light of day. So I am not that impressed with the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s opposition, especially after yesterday when it voted for tax increases for low-paid workers and KiwiSaver cuts for the same workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EWhat is so offensive are the excuses for this bill\u2014that the young, the brown, the women, the imprisoned, and the migrants will be better off because they are so hopeless they do not deserve the same rights as other workers and, because it will be even easier to sack those people, employers will very kindly take a risk on giving them a job. The workers I have talked to are very offended by that. For example, the Filipino workers\u2019 group says that this bill will open the door to further exploitation of vulnerable migrant workers, and that it has nothing to do with improving their job opportunities. Vulnerable workers often have a limited knowledge of workplace rights, and work in workplaces like restaurants, rest homes, shops, and cleaning services. Many of the jobs done by the Pacific people the member opposite was referring to are in the myriad of other small firms throughout New Zealand, and those people are not in a position to agree or disagree on a trial period without rights. Have the members opposite not heard of \u201CTake it or leave it!\u201D? Workers are told: \u201CHere you go; if you want the job you sign up to it, or you do not have the job.\u201D That is how it works; that is what members will see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI thought a fundamental human right was equality before the law. I thought that that was what we stood up for in this country. Yesterday was the 60th anniversary of human rights, and equality is a fundamental human right. But this bill creates an underclass of workers in an area where rights are probably much more vital. Small workplaces often have very inexperienced managers and supervisors, they have high turnover, the workers are low paid, and the jobs can be high stress. In such a situation, instead of trying to sort things out with probationary employees, and instead of trying to give workers a genuine go, managers who are busy will say: \u201COff you go down the road. It is too hard.\u201D Under this bill, all those managers will have to do is call it unjustified dismissal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI know there is provision for mediation, but it is meaningless. It means nothing. It is a talkfest; it goes nowhere. The worker has no rights with that. The other excuse that we have heard for this bill is that every other OECD country has probationary provisions. Yes, they do, but so does New Zealand. The members opposite should look at those other countries, because workers in those countries have many other rights that New Zealanders do not have. For example, they still get penal rates, weekend rates, redundancy pay, and overtime pay. I am looking forward to members opposite proposing that we should have minimum redundancy, as indeed Labour was proposing in its policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI am still waiting\u2014and we all are\u2014to hear more about the Government\u2019s Restart relief package to help those workers hit by redundancy. In his speech Mr Key said that this package will be carefully targeted and designed to help people who have worked hard and have big aspirations for the future, but who will, through no fault of their own, be coping with a big financial blow. If a worker has been through a 90-day process and has been sacked, would that worker qualify as having worked hard? If the worker is sacked, is it through any fault of his or her own? I say to the Minister that I would genuinely like to know the answer to that question. Do these workers qualify as having big aspirations for the future? Will they get relief or will they be consigned to looking for another job on a 90-day cycle, and on a hopeless spiral to the bottom?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EWe on this side of the House are very opposed to the bill, and we have outlined that. It is taking away workers\u2019 economic livelihood, which should never be done lightly or unfairly. Being sacked unfairly impacts on workers. It impacts on their families, their confidence, and their future employment prospects. What does a worker in this situation say to their next employer at an interview? \u201COh sorry, I got sacked, but it is only because of the 90-day probation bill so it wasn\u2019t really being sacked; it wasn\u2019t really unfair.\u201D Or do they have to sign up for yet another 90-day cycle for the next period, for the next after that\u2014and on it goes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003ESue Bradford raised some important questions. She referred to page 9 of the explanatory note and the real agenda of the National Party, which is to extend this provision to all other workers after review. That is in the fine print, but there is also more to come. We know what the National Party\u2019s agenda is. It wants to have non-union collective agreements, restrict unions\u2019 access to rights, cash up the 4 weeks\u2019 leave, review the Holidays Act, and privatise accident compensation. Let no one have any doubt that this is the first shot in an ongoing attack on New Zealand workers. To the Minister I say, \u201Cnice one!\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022 data-id=\u002208fd1c8b14dd41949824a845ee08a2dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208fd1c8b14dd41949824a845ee08a2dc\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I have listened to nonsense all afternoon, including some from that member who just sat down. You see, when one looks down one end of a telescope, one forgets that there is another end. When one looks down a telescope, one notices a view. But if one goes to the other end of the telescope and looks down, one gets a different view. Those members on the other side of the Chamber, who were rejected by the people of this country\u2014who were thrown out and pushed on to the Opposition benches\u2014cannot take it. They do not like it. The people on that side of the Chamber are not considering the perspective that, first of all, under the existing law of this country, any employer who wants to remove a staff member finds that it costs tens of thousand of dollars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003EIn my Wairarapa electorate, when farmers employ new staff, give people a break, and bring them into their house, they may then find after some weeks that the person they thought they had is not quite the person they actually have, and they may want to end the arrangement. So they go to their lawyer, and what does the lawyer say? The lawyer says \u201CLook, do not challenge this personal grievance. Just write the cheque out.\u201D For a beef and sheep farmer in hill country, with big debt, the $20,000 cheque is far too much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003EIn this country we are moving into some very difficult circumstances, and I tell Mr Cullen that it was caused in part by the previous Government\u2019s overspending. It was also caused in part by the international environment, and it is acknowledged that in this country right now we are heading into higher unemployment figures. In that context, we need to give every opportunity for people to be employed. Allowing employers, particularly of businesses that employ fewer than 20 people, to move into a no-blame arrangement for 90 days will encourage people to take up jobs, and it will encourage employers to give people jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003EI heard on television tonight the suggestion that my colleague Anne Tolley should be lined up on the question of schoolteachers. One just has to think about the Ministry of Education as an employer; it employs many more than 20 people, so its employees will not be affected. A lot of fear is being spread by Darien Fenton and her colleagues, and it is completely unrealistic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003EThis legislation is good for employers in the Wairarapa, and it is good for employees because many more people will find real work opportunities as a result of it. I commend the Minister of Labour very highly on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4c8fb8cd77f415d9168f0ba0481388f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4c8fb8cd77f415d9168f0ba0481388f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That speech clearly exhausted the member. He can retire into somnolence for the remainder of this sitting, running through into Saturday\u2014but I always appreciate his Charles Laughton imitations in this Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWhy is the Employment Relations Amendment Bill in front of us under urgency at the present time? The obvious answer, from the Labour perspective, is to say this is some deep-dyed plot whereby the National Party is in cahoots with Business New Zealand to ram it through. The problem with that theory is quite simple: Business New Zealand is opposed to ramming this bill through the House. The Council of Trade Unions is opposed to it, Business New Zealand is opposed to it\u2014that is, the trade unions and the employers\u2014but the National Government is in favour of it all by itself. Nobody else is in favour of ramming the bill through; the Human Rights Commission is opposed to ramming it through. It is being rammed through for a simple reason: Mr Key said before the election there would be 100 days of action. At the Business Committee on Tuesday, even Mr Brownlee did not know what the 100 days of action was going to be. There had to be something in it, and the National members have made up what is in the 100 days of action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ESo we have this bill, a bill that could be passed at any time in the next few months and could go to a select committee; an education bill on something that could be done by regulation and does not even require a bill at all; and two law and order bills that could go to a select committee and do not require to be done immediately. The only things that had to be done quickly were the tax changes, because they come in on 1 April and there was a need to have a period of time before they come into force. This bill is about cosmetics, and on looking at the opposite side of the Chamber one can see the need for the cosmetics. Indeed, today I walked into one of the men\u2019s toilets in the area frequently occupied by National members, opened a shoe box to look for the shoe polish, and found a huge pot of Shiseido face powder. Clearly a lot of people on the opposite side of the Chamber have been using a lot of cosmetics over the recent past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWhere did the notion of 100 days come from? What is the historic origin of the term \u201Cthe Hundred Days\u201D? The trouble with being a historian, as I am by profession, is that sometimes one knows things one does not really want to know. The term \u201Cthe Hundred Days\u201D comes from Napoleon. The time between the escape from Elba to the Battle of Waterloo was the Hundred Days. I have bad news for the National Party: Napoleon lost the Battle of Waterloo. National\u2019s use of the term \u201C100 days\u201D is not a good idea, given the historical precedent. I advise National members to forget about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWhat is the real purpose of this bill? Well, it is not clear at all. We are told it is to encourage employment. Let me adopt a question I used in the KiwiSaver debate. What assumptions are being built into the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update that will reduce the projections for unemployment as a consequence of the passage of this legislation? Is officialdom convinced, is Treasury convinced, that a single extra net job will be created as a result of this bill, rather than the recycling of some people on a 90-day basis through one job, which counts as one job? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a012d0a85ee24a4c8de515aef5b06f04\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: No, it won\u2019t happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227318f9f551134ef3b7d2282e100dd003\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If it will not happen, what is the point of the bill? If, as Mr Hayes says, it will not happen that people will be recycled through a job, then why is this bill supposed to be a centrepiece of the National Party\u2019s policy when it will have no effect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022501117be57b24e58b62ea8dc8f87be1b\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: It will have an effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f27e08f9fc14f67a8d30e2e2d236e70\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It will have an effect, but it will not happen! There is a whole new kind of physics emerging here within National\u2014something quite interesting is emerging, in terms of National\u2019s view about the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThis measure was not in the Speech from the Throne. It was never a centrepiece of the National Party\u2019s policy announced to the public at large during the election campaign. National members went around business groups and it was whispered quietly that there would be a 90-day probationary clause. The bill does not actually create a 90-day probationary clause, because the current Act provides for probationary clauses in employment agreements. The employee and the employer can agree to a probationary clause, but the employee\u2019s personal rights remain under it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295abca86cc0c424ba49789d60ed76c96\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Can they be longer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298a22c4e02c84008b5b7ab53b70cbca6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the periods can be longer or shorter than 90 days. Actually, the current law is more flexible about probationary clauses. They can be for 60 days, 90 days, 120 days, or 3 years\u2014like Mr Key, who is on a probationary clause for 3 years. At the end of that time his employer may well decide not to renew that particular contract. After 27 years, or a little bit longer than that, my employers are probably deciding not to renew mine. There can be very long probationary clauses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe argument was also put forward that Labour does not like employers. I have gone through the list, and I have found that probably more people on this side than on the other side of the House have been employers. Mr Hide, for example, has been employed by the State all his life, in one form or another.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cd06982109a4fd4aa18f357660064c1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Or by Alan Gibbs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b15ad82d7f146d0bd6ce78412c835b7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, and sometimes simultaneously, in fact; Alan Gibbs and the State have employed Mr Hide. But the real problem is that the National Party does not understand industrial relations. There is a Gresham\u2019s law about industrial relations, which those members need to understand. Particularly when the country is in a period of low economic growth, as we are this year and will be next year\u2014and probably the year after that we will have pretty low economic growth, as well\u2014Gresham\u2019s law applies. Gresham\u2019s law is the law that bad money drives out good. It said debased coinage would drive out un-debased coinage, in the old days when coinage meant something in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, in areas like the service industries\u2014but not in high-tech industries, which are a different kind of world\u2014that employ unskilled or semi-skilled labour, a Gresham\u2019s law of industrial relations does apply. If one employer can employ people at a much cheaper rate and on reduced terms compared with another employer, the other employer\u2019s labour costs are a higher proportion of the total cost of the business. In that respect, employers who are trying to provide decent conditions sooner or later tend to be forced to reduce their conditions as well, in order to compete with the bad employers. That is why we have to have industrial relations law. If all employers were good and everybody acted properly, we would not need to have industrial relations law at all. It could simply be a matter of having individual contracts between employers and employees\u2014individual arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EIndustrial relations law is there to provide a proper framework because unfortunately, as always, people are prone to sin in some form or another. The people being exposed to that will be disproportionately M\u0101ori and disproportionately Pasifika. That is what will happen in this case, because the service industries are disproportionately staffed by those people, and they also disproportionately employ women, compared with men. So Government members should not tell us the issue is about Labour failing to trust employers. Employers are like any other group of people: there are good people, average people, and bad people. The problem is that in these kinds of areas and in those kinds of industries\u2014as I say, not in the high-tech industries, not in the professions, and not in the managerial sectors by and large\u2014bad employers\u2019 practices tend to drive out good employers\u2019 practices, because that is the nature of competition within those kinds of businesses. So this measure will not work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThe other point that the Government needs to bear in mind is what one might call the doctrine of unintended consequences, which is a pretty important and powerful doctrine to always bear in mind. I remember that I led the then Labour Opposition in the second reading debate on the Employment Contracts Bill, because Helen Clark was overseas. The Employment Contracts Bill had two prime aims. It was there in part to destroy much of the trade union movement, and after it was enacted it succeeded in that; and it was there in part to destroy working conditions and wages. It was intended to lower the base of working conditions and wages and adopt a low-wage path to economic growth. In that the Employment Contracts Act succeeded; it certainly did that. But it also had unintended consequences. The whole personal grievance industry, which both the National Party and employers moaned more and more about as the decade progressed, was very largely a creation of that Act. Employees could really rely upon only the legal system and the taking of personal grievances to protect themselves. Employment cases that were previously sorted out between the union and the employer, and satisfactorily resolved at minimal cost to both parties, became more and more a focus of personal grievances. Under the Employment Relations Act, the tide has been pushed out on the personal grievance industry. It has moved back in the opposite direction, to some extent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EPeople will find a way round this law\u2014those who can. Those who can afford to get a lawyer will find a way round this law. There will be enough loopholes in it for clever lawyers and judges who believe that the Government has gone too far. They will do exactly what they did with regard to the Employment Contracts Act. They will lead in the opposite direction, and say to the Government: \u201CWe believe you\u2019ve gone too far. Therefore we will create further opportunities somewhere else within the legal system, to counteract as best as possible the effects of what you are doing that we don\u2019t agree with.\u201D This bill will create uncertainty; it will create further costs for employers. It will not create new employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022969dae92efd7463d9c1596853a4a158a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ddac63493c0456a9e418dc2b683d9e4\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225e205ce860f94462abac36375915f298\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002295995d10cac74fad9a7aee77e9e67d14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295995d10cac74fad9a7aee77e9e67d14\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I ask the Committee for a little tolerance and leeway during the initial speech on Part 1 to indicate the overall thrust of the Opposition in the Committee stage, in order to draw the attention of the Committee to some amendments. Some are in Part 2, but in order to make sure that people are aware of them, they are on the Table; we have done that as quickly as we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe first amendment, which is in my name, makes it clear that mediation will be available even to people who are no longer employees\u2014people who have been dismissed\u2014because as the bill is drafted, it applies only to people who are employees. Of course, once one has got the sack, one is no longer an employee, and the mediation promised by the Minister would not apply. The second amendment is the one supported by Anne Tolley on YouTube\u2014it was widely circulated\u2014which makes it clear that people within schools are exempted from this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022378d96676c8545628bf8ee93632ef2ab\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Stop making it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b4ce106beb94325b013d09f7252c01b\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The member should look at herself on video and just continue to tell the truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe third amendment makes it clear\u2014again picking up the commitment given by the Minister of Labour\u2014that employers are not allowed to dictate that people are to have these trial periods; it has to be a matter of agreement. So if it is a requirement of employment by an employer, it will void that clause. That will provide new subsection (4A) for new section 67A, which makes it clear that a trial provision as a requirement is something that will be voided and will cause it not to take effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EAnother amendment is a requirement to put notice of termination in writing. That is relatively simple, and something I think any reasonable person would support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe next proposal puts some pretty limited requirements on employers before the removal of personal grievance rights applies. That one requires the employer to set out in writing any concerns that could result in the employment being terminated and the behaviour required by the employee to address those concerns, and provides a reasonable time for people to perform according to that written notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe last amendment makes it clear that the probation period applies to a position rather than a particular individual. That makes it clear that the trial provision must be fully disclosed in any position description or material seeking applicants for the position, and it cannot be subsequently added to the employment description or any subsequent employment agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EWith this series of amendments we have attempted to encapsulate the commitments that have been made by the National Party in their description of this bill. I think the amendments could well be described as the \u201Ckeep Kate honest\u201D clauses for six of them; the seventh one is the \u201Ckeep the Minister of Education honest\u201D clause. Here we are attempting to be helpful to the Government, to make sure that it has good legislation\u2014it will never be good, but at least it will be designed to do what it said it would. We think that these are minimal changes that would have occurred if in fact the bill had gone to select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI am obliged to tell the Minister of Labour that we will be opposing the bill and every clause in it at every opportunity we have between here and Saturday, or next week if we have the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022919b4dea0a574503975f69a9346847b8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Make it next Saturday!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d5af6e7fdb54dafa99a2c6ce326b9cc\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: We are not going to be here Saturday? Oh, I thank the member! When are we leaving? Can we get our flights booked? When will National throw in the towel? Friday\u2014it will throw in the towel on Friday. That is good; we will all change our bookings. I will get the taxi booked for Friday and not for Saturday, as would otherwise have been the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI go now to Part 1 in more specific detail\u2014and I thank you, Mr Chairman, for your tolerance of me working slightly outside Part 1 in the first 5 minutes, but I think now we should come back to the bill, and in particular Part 1 of the bill. I should say next that National indicated during the campaign and before the campaign\u2014and I remember Kate Wilkinson at the Backbencher the day she earned the \u201CKiwiSaver Kate\u201D moniker indicating this\u2014that National would keep the Employment Relations Act but it would make significant changes to it. She is right. This is one of the very significant changes that has been proposed, and I am wondering whether it would in fact be appropriate to rename the Act as a result of the approach she has taken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EIt is certainly not an Employment Relations Act; it is an \u201CEmployment Relations Destruction Act\u201D, or something similar, as a result of this change. The purpose of the Act is \u201Cto provide when an employment agreement may specify a trial period of 90 days or less,\u201D, but we all know that this can already happen. We all know that it does happen. We had pleas from National on behalf of the ex-prisoner population of New Zealand\u2014which I thought was interesting from National\u2014for trial periods. I think just about everyone on this side of the Chamber knows that lots and lots of former prisoners have trial periods. Often when employers want to take on or look at ex-prisoners they will agree to have a trial period. Some of those trial periods actually occur while they are still prisoners. That is an interesting arrangement. It happens quite often in the Hutt Valley, and the Hutt Valley is better off for it, because in an area of labour shortage\u2014at least up until recently, rural labour shortage\u2014it means that people come out, have their trial periods, and at the end of their prison sentence they quite often go into full-time employment having already had what is effectively a probation period. They often still have a probation period from the other perspective as well; I think that is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe other part addressed in the \u201CPurpose\u201D clause is the changes to the Employment Relations (Breaks, Infant Feeding, and Other Matters) Amendment Act 2008 relating to KiwiSaver. I want to make it clear that this is the companion measure to the shocking thing that occurred yesterday, where as workers get a wage increase, employers are allowed to take the employer\u2019s contribution to KiwiSaver out of the wage increase that is going to the worker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0af10ceb6eb474580016223e8bb7e51\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Unbelievable!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234ba4d17d77d41b6abf7654fddd2dd67\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is just unfair and it is unreasonable. When I had discussions with some of the very big employers in New Zealand who were contemplating doing this in the period before the election and before we passed the legislation, when they looked at the question, every single one of them backed off. Every single one of them accepted that it was not fair. Every single one of them saw that it was wrong. But a lot of them saw that if they took that negative backward approach, what would happen in the future\u2014and I think it is almost inevitable now\u2014is an approach that looks more like an Australian one, where the 9 percent is a strict employer contribution and there can be no question of trade-off at all. I think if National goes down this route\u2014and from yesterday it is clear it wants to go down that route\u2014we will end up with something that is not a shared responsibility between the taxpayer, the employer, and the employee; it will go on to the employer completely. I think that would be regrettable, because I think the current cooperative arrangement\u2014although I note that \u201Ccooperative\u201D is something that is now on the proscribed list for Cabinet papers! National has put out a list of words that are not allowed in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u002204c77616c0224a21b84bf7a4f29cd8e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204c77616c0224a21b84bf7a4f29cd8e5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call David Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u00224506e44f663a4586852a8b257e89d4bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224506e44f663a4586852a8b257e89d4bb\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Today we are discussing the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, a bill that has actually been through a select committee process in very recent history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c2867693fdf4627b320321d57bdf8d2\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No, it hasn\u2019t!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022805ec136717b4dec98fdcdfa00ccd665\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It has. Members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee will know they debated this bill a short period of time ago. We took on board a great deal of public input, in the sense that some of the changes that members actually see in this bill, in comparison with the original member\u2019s bill, were influenced by changes brought about at the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EOne of those changes is the requirement that the measure applies only to businesses with up to 20 employees. Basically, this bill applies to small businesses, and the whole heart of this legislation is to make it easier for small businesses to take on new employees. Is there anything wrong in our society, in our communities, and in our corporate world in letting small business have the opportunity to take on new people? Apparently, from the Labour Party\u2019s perspective, there is a problem with that. Labour members will engage in all the fear tactics that they have to try to persuade people that this bill is not in the best interests of New Zealanders, especially people wanting to get a job, and especially small-business owners who want to take on people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003EA small business does not have the infrastructure behind it that a large business has. It does not have the ability, necessarily, to take advantage of the current statutory ability to have a trial period. Small-business owners want a much more resilient approach, which takes into account the nature of their businesses and the way that they have to run their businesses. They do not have a big professional development team around them; they need legislation that is suitable for their environment. This legislation provides that suitability; it provides an avenue for small employers to go out there into the market and take on people they might not otherwise have taken on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003ESo it is not correct for Labour members to come here and say that this legislation has not been debated in public. It has. It was consulted on in a period of time close to the election. It was consulted on through the select committee process in the last parliamentary term. In that process, we came to some extraordinary conclusions. Many people\u2014whether employers or employees\u2014submitted that they thought there was a real need for this legislation. In case after case, people came before the select committee to say that they wanted legislation like this, because it would give them a chance to get a job. Migrants came and said they needed legislation like this to give them an opportunity, and employers said it, as well. This legislation has been debated, and it is in the best interests of New Zealand employers and employees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u00222da08df5d42e4101a33fac3c1b11ea77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222da08df5d42e4101a33fac3c1b11ea77\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Because of this Government\u2019s absolute determination to deny a select committee the chance to subject this bill to scrutiny and the public to make submissions, Labour members expect that this will be a long Committee stage, and we expect that the Minister of Labour will take the call to answer the questions put to her. She has to be accountable; she is not paid $240,000 a year to sit in the chair dumbly and not answer questions. I want to put a series of questions to the Minister. I hope she makes a note of them, and I hope she answers in full, because this is the country\u2019s only opportunity to get answers from this Minister and this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe first question I have for the Minister is this. She said in the first reading that this bill was not about taking away rights. I refer her to Part 1, which we are now debating. The explanatory note states that the purpose of this bill is to enable employers, during an employee\u2019s first 90 days, to \u201Cdismiss an employee without the employee being able to bring a personal grievance or legal proceedings in respect of the dismissal,\u201D. The Minister said it was not about taking away rights, but the part we are debating explicitly says that an employee in his or her first 90 days can be sacked for any reason, without having the redress of a personal grievance procedure or being able to take a case to the Employment Court. That redress, I put it to you, Minister, is a fundamental right for workers. It is fundamental because there is nothing more important to most people than their security of employment\u2014holding on to their jobs. Their jobs are their way of earning a living, and having the protection that they cannot be sacked for illegitimate, unfair, and wrong reasons is a fundamental right. So I want you, Minister, to justify to this Committee why you say this bill does not remove rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b66ba0c38f7d4681ba8dbf3d2631dba6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows he cannot use the word \u201Cyou\u201D, and from now on I make it very clear that the word \u201Cyou\u201D cannot be used in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222241ee68f2e640fa8988e5ef8f6d5366\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I accept your ruling, Mr Chairman. I want the Minister to answer the question as to why she misled this House by saying this bill was not about the removal of rights, when this part that we are debating now patently demonstrates in black and white that this bill takes away one of the most fundamental rights and protections that any worker has. Why should any worker be subject to dismissal for unfair and invalid reasons, and not have redress for that? If that is not taking away a right, I would like to know what it is. It seems clear to everyone that the Minister has misled the House with her initial claim. Then she said that this bill was a moderate bill to protect the rights of workers. How does one protect the rights of workers by denying their ability to take a personal grievance if the boss sacks them for invalid reasons? That is fundamental.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI would like to ask the Minister a second question. We know that this bill will not come into effect until 1 April next year\u20141 April 2009. That being the case, will the Minister explain to the Committee why a bill that is so controversial, a bill that denies people basic rights, cannot go to a select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe third question is whether the Minister accepts that a whole range of critical stakeholders in this legislation have protested about the denial of their right to have an input into it. The Minister knows who those stakeholders are. They are groups like the engineers union, the Council of Trade Unions, FinSec, the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists, and even Business New Zealand, which said that this was an improper process. I want to know from the Minister why she thinks it is acceptable that legislation of this nature cannot be commented on by stakeholders who have a vital interest in it. I want the Minister to tell the Committee of one other example in the last decade of legislation that strips people of fundamental rights not having gone to a select committee\u2014one piece of legislation in the last decade, or even going back to 1951. I want the Minister to explain to the Committee what the precedent is for introducing legislation as dramatically bad as this\u2014in that it takes away rights\u2014and denying the people who lose those rights the chance to comment on it at a select committee. If this bill is not to come into effect until 1 April, what excuse does the Minister have for denying a select committee the right to subject it to proper scrutiny?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI want to know next from the Minister whether she accepts the argument of the human rights commissioner who said that rushed legislation is potentially risky legislation. I would like the Minister to tell this Committee whether this legislation is rushed. If it is not rushed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226d1e8359b2f3482dab180a7806f008a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0b0f50f48e541b1b7b39bc8e1cbf69a\u0022\u003EDr Jackie Blue\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225413293b792e413fbc32f6425b4817d4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Anne Tolley says that it is not rushed. Well, maybe Anne Tolley can tell this House why it is\u2014I am sorry; it was Jackie Blue. Oh, the brunettes all look alike to me. If this legislation was not rushed, I want Jackie Blue to explain for her Minister why this House was not given a copy of it until 11.45 p.m. last night. If it was not rushed and it had been prepared long ago, why were the public, the news media, and members of this House not given access to it? It was because Government members were so ashamed of it that they did not believe that it could stand up to public scrutiny\u2014they did not want anyone to see it. That might explain why it has not gone to a select committee. That seems to me to be a logical reason. But I also suspect, looking at the officials, that this bill has just been drafted. It is hot off the press. It was produced in haste, and there are bound to be mistakes in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EEverybody in this House knows that the whole purpose of taking a bill to a select committee is to give the select committee members the chance to subject it to proper scrutiny. Almost all legislation that goes through this House goes through a select committee. The select committee system is a fundamental safeguard of the democratic rights of the members of this House, and of the country. Yet at the moment we are seeing bill after bill after bill that is not urgent, that is not needed, and that is not coming into effect for months not going through the select committee process. I want the Minister to tell us why this new Government is so arrogant that it can bring all of these bills\u2014in particular, this bill\u2014to the House, rush them through, not give anybody the chance to comment on them, and not put them through the scrutiny of a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWe have heard no answers to those questions, Mr Chair. I put it to you\u2014and I am putting it to you, Mr Chair, so I can say that\u2014that this is the only chance we have to get accountability from the Minister, and I hope that you can exercise your powers to ensure that the Minister addresses and answers those questions. We do not want to sit here and ask questions that are purely rhetorical because the Minister sits dumbly in her chair and does not answer them. I expect to get full answers to those questions. We have put the questions clearly. Why did the Minister tell this House that there was no removal of rights and that this bill was about protecting rights, when this part says exactly the opposite? Why, when such an important right is being taken away, is no select committee hearing being held on this legislation? Earlier I heard members say \u201COh, there was a member\u2019s bill. Mr Mapp had a member\u2019s bill.\u201D That was a member\u2019s bill, not a Government bill. There was no expectation on the part of the public that Mr Mapp\u2019s bill would go through the House. This is a Government bill, there is majority support for it, and therefore New Zealanders must have the right to have their voice heard on it. Why is the Government running scared and not allowing that to happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0731ba2ef884df0a7569257f8495f4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0731ba2ef884df0a7569257f8495f4a\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This bill is wrong, both in process and in substance. If it is so urgent, we have to ask why it was not identified as part of the 100-day programme and was not outlined in the Speech from the Throne. It seems to me that the only answer to that question is that the Government is trying to get it through quickly so that people might forget about it over Christmas. They will not have had the chance to speak on it, and when they see the consequences of it, it will be too late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003EIn essence, this bill is about removing workers\u2019 rights. It allows workers to be sacked for no good reason. It would allow employers to sack somebody because they wanted to replace him or her with somebody else. It would allow employers to sack somebody because they did not like that person, or did not like something about him or her. It does not even have to be rational; it can be for any reason at all. This bill removes the worker\u2019s right to seek redress for unfair dismissal. I remind the other side that workers are people. They are not commodities. They are people who have feelings, who have financial obligations. This goes against core New Zealand values; it goes against values like fairness and the belief in natural justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003EWho will be most likely to suffer under this bill? I can tell members\u2014and the Human Right Commission obviously shares this concern\u2014that it will be young people. I wonder how members on the other side of the Chamber would feel if their child or grandchild were sacked because an employer did not like the look of him or her on any given day. It will be young people, it will be lower-skilled workers, it will be new migrants, it will be M\u0101ori workers, and it will be Pasifika workers; they will be the people who suffer as a consequence of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003EThis bill is particularly cruel and particularly cynical in the current economic climate. There is already a great deal of insecurity. People are worried about unemployment\u2014we all are. This bill reminds me of the cynicism and cruelty of the National Government in the 1990s; it also attacked workers and stripped away their rights in a time of high unemployment. People will be less likely to raise issues with their employers, less likely to question things, if they believe that their employers have the right to sack them for no reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003EThe point about there being a choice is absolutely laughable. In the case of most people\u2014especially those whom I have outlined who feature in high unemployment statistics\u2014it is absolutely laughable to think that when they get a new job they will turn round and say \u201COh, I am sorry but I will not accept it with that provision.\u201D You talk about this side of the House not having a view of the real world; well, actually, we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I would like to say is that Government members believe that you are talking about a more\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4afb0d103f748518ffb87064eb6c905\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I have explained before that you cannot bring the Chair into the debate, so do not use the word \u201Cyou\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224569c6e8b581434cae667bf645fdcb6f\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry about that, Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253d412c1a33c4790ac702cae37444661\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022318e63787a294dc1a77d0be8a52a80ab\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: He is the Chair, actually, I believe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003E The Government members talk about a more productive economy. Well, one thing that I can say to the other side of the House is that more productive work places will not be obtained where workers\u2019 rights are stripped away. More productivity will be obtained in workplaces where there are decent rights, where workers feel free to have a say, and where they are respected and valued and their opinions are respected and valued. The Employment Relations Amendment Bill does not create that sort of workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003EFinally, I say that this bill is addressing a perception rather than a real problem. As an adviser to the Small Business Advisory Group, I can assure members that I have discussed it extensively with small businesses. [Interruption] I have discussed it with the Small Business Advisory Group; do those members think it does not represent small business? If members had read its report, they would have seen that the recommendation in it argued for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u002290c29ad405bf409eb9f68812573e4fa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290c29ad405bf409eb9f68812573e4fa7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Five calls have been taken by the Opposition now, and a series of questions have been put to the Minister of Labour. The Minister is failing to answer any of those questions\u2014failing to take the call. My question to you, Mr Chair, is whether you will take that into account in terms of the length of time that you allow this debate to go on for. I put it to you, Mr Chair, that this is a very special situation. Normally, the select committee would have hours to go over this bill, to cross-examine officials, to ask questions, to get answers. We have only the period of time that is available in the Committee of the whole House. Therefore, it is essential that the Minister rises to her feet and answers the questions; otherwise, this process, frankly, Mr Chair, is a farce. I am sure that you are committed to ensuring that this House does take this matter seriously, and that the Minister is accountable\u2014and she is accountable, given her position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u002290c0d21d37be4709be9a326fb37ab55a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290c0d21d37be4709be9a326fb37ab55a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I am sure that the member, who was having trouble using the correct terminology despite days of being corrected by the Chair\u2014I think it is because he is just so excited\u2014knows that how long the debate goes on is totally at the discretion of the Chair. Actually, it is not right for the Opposition to try to put pressure on the Chair over the way that the debate is being conducted. The Chair is running this debate, not the fresh new Leader of the Opposition, who cannot remember to stop bringing the Chair into the debate. Mr Chairman, my advice to you is to stick to the Standing Orders and to your traditional and conventional role in running the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u00225476bdbe63ee4f9a8d190830cf770e2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225476bdbe63ee4f9a8d190830cf770e2d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman, I am somewhat surprised that you did not interrupt the new Deputy Prime Minister during those comments, because he clearly went outside what has been raised. You were, I think quite properly, asked by the Leader of the Opposition for a ruling. There is precedent in this area, and I am sure you are being advised on the precedent for setting the length of debates in the Committee stage; it involves the nature of the debate and also whether the bill has been to a select committee. Having said that, I want to say that this part of the bill is not the significant part; the next part is the significant part, and we will get on to it at some stage, either later tonight or tomorrow morning. But, Mr Chairman, I think that the ruling you are being asked to make is whether the Minister\u2019s declining to take a call to answer questions is a factor to be taken into account in your deciding the length of the debate on Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022e876ca5d5c1d4099bc4345602c6d19fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e876ca5d5c1d4099bc4345602c6d19fd\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Mallard. These are not points of order. The Minister has the discretion to take a call when she feels that she wants to. The second point is that the length of the debate is determined by the Chair, and I will take into account all relevant factors in deciding when the debate will come to a close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2c5641acfda4e2f9d5bc34c6f45fc86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2c5641acfda4e2f9d5bc34c6f45fc86\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022915406074e5a4408ae445047774679ae\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a new point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ed497ebfb4b4cf0b01bdcf65558b308\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is related to the last one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a02f6ebc55143cfa3f92a705e1a0de9\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e7a24ad78af42eda69ef3a6572d284f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am not going to tell the Chair that it is unrelated when it is not, but it is a new question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1b0a9da17d54e44b7704916b2998ef6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a new point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc181ecb96e0409ab0faa977fc00798a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is asking you for an elucidation on the comments you just made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e273c7aa1dc40dc8fa0c86d1a168ed1\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s challenging your ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f5887593ad34111b3bc90b2a800bca7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, Mr Chairman, I am not challenging your ruling, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c3d1db834cb480da118708a3474e7e7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: We are moving on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd698ac64cf641408996e8047122e8ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd698ac64cf641408996e8047122e8ac\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. My request to you is to answer the question that was being asked\u2014that is, whether the Minister\u2019s not taking a call is one of the factors that you take into account. You said that you have discretion, and members in the Chamber have an absolute right to ask you what factors you take into account as you exercise your discretion. I am not arguing about whether it is your right to have discretion in determining the length of the debate. I accept that it is entirely up to you. But we also have rights as members to understand how your discretion is being exercised. That was the request that the Leader of the Opposition made, and I think it was something that was quite reasonably asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf76aa66f0754624b7b9779bc9ba343d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf76aa66f0754624b7b9779bc9ba343d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Of course, the member is wrong. The Chair is free to shorten the debate if he does not like the colour of the tie of the next speaker who is taking the call. That is the definition of discretion. There are conventions about repetition and about having had a full debate, and the Chairs of the Committee stage debates in the last few days have been very liberal\u2014in my view, far too liberal\u2014in how broad they have allowed the Committee stage debates to run. It is getting close to being out of order for a member to try to put pressure on the Chair to explain the reasons for the decisions that are made. We all know that, in the end, either the Chair or the Speaker makes a decision, and makes it for reasons that are fit and proper to his or her office, and we accept it. I hope the Opposition is not embarking on a tactic of trying to pressure the Chair continually in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275d269a0095747729d9725c7799cbb6d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: There is nothing to rule on. There has not been a closure motion. If there is one, then I will take into account at the time whether all relevant information has been supplied. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0f35478f3bf41478e7c3f3e24ad999f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0f35478f3bf41478e7c3f3e24ad999f\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise tonight to speak to Part 1, particularly to the purpose clause, and to outline our opposition to this bill. Basically it is unfair. I was one of the members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee that considered the Wayne Mapp - Don Brash - Kate Wilkinson bill\u2014the \u201CGet the Sack in 90 Days Bill\u201D\u2014and I am very familiar with the arguments that went on through that process, so I do not accept the argument that this bill has already been debated. I am familiar with the arguments, yet I have found a whole lot of new arguments in this bill and a whole lot of new questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EYou know, I do not understand why it matters how long an employee has been in employment. What is the difference between having 20 employees and having 21 employees, for example? I ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, why this particular figure has been created. Why did she pick the figure of 20 people? I would like to hear an explanation for that, as workers cannot do anything about the size of the firm they work for. They do not have any choice. If they want to go and get a job, they do not go and ask employers whether they have 20 workers, 15 workers, 10 workers, or 21 workers. And what is so different about a workplace that has 21 workers versus 19? My question to the Minister is how the staff will be counted. Will the number include part-timers, contractors, temporary, or casual workers? Will it be fulltime-equivalents, and what will count as a separate business? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI ask how the Minister will make sure that employers do not create separate businesses to be able to take advantage of and exploit workers under this proposed bill. What happens if the workplace had fewer than 20 workers when they were employed and then, when the workers started, the number went up to 23? I ask what happens where the employer employs 21 workers and sacks two of them at once. Will one worker be able to take a personal grievance and the other one not be able to? I would like to know the answers to those questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI would also like some answers to questions relating to the purpose in Part 1. Why does the Minister not think it is already hard enough when new workers start a new job? They have to learn new tasks and new routines, and they have to remember new information. They have to adjust to new hours, they have to adjust their family to the situation, and they have to make arrangements with their families to fit around their needs. It is a big deal starting their new job, and I want to know from the Minister why she thinks it is fair enough just to say to the worker that he or she has 90 days and can make all his or her arrangements, but it is kind of tough at the end of it, because if the employer decides that he or she does not want the worker\u2014the face does not fit\u2014well, tough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI also want to know the Minister\u2019s answer to the question of what will happen in the 90-day period if the worker gets the sack because he or she raises a health and safety issue. I know that the answer will be that the law provides for this scenario, but most workers will not raise those issues in the first 90 days, nor will they say that they would like to join the union and ask for a union form, because it is too dangerous. Why would they do that? No, they will keep their heads down. I ask how this helps us to engage and to build productive workplaces when livelihoods are on the line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI also have not heard a satisfactory explanation from the Minister as to why the current probationary periods do not work. We do have them. We have already pointed out that we currently have probationary periods. The only thing that I have heard is that it is just too difficult and that it costs a bit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI heard the member from ACT talking about his time as an employment lawyer, and one of the things we looked at during the select committee process was lawyers and advocates conducting personal grievance claims. What we looked at was lawyers and advocates conducting personal grievance claims\u2014in other words, the ambulance-chasers who were the \u201Cno win, no fee\u201D advocates. It sounds like that is what that member was, and I say good on him for being honest about it. But we asked the Department of Labour to look at it and to do some research, because there is more of a perceived problem than an actual problem. I think that the member said that the number of workers employed under 90-day probationary periods is very, very small, so what is the problem we are trying to fix here? As the member Shane Ardern used to ask, what is the mischief that we are trying to fix here? I do not understand that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EEven if a worker did get sacked because of racism, because she was pregnant, or because his or her face did not fit, how will the Minister make sure that that is not covered up? All that is provided for in this bill is that the employer just has to say that the worker is dismissed. The employer does not have to give a reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022 data-id=\u00228e2641284413474d8702699bb043bd0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e2641284413474d8702699bb043bd0e\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take the call. I was waiting to take the call until I had my list of questions, but that is OK, I have four so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bd7158c3bff41219e9982e2c68d71d9\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I asked the Minister at least six, actually. She must be hard of hearing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d86421d12ff04021829a505b1f154f90\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d61e7125701e43fabac52b53ef633464\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I had six, but that\u2019s OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dca6538c5224259b7390140e5cdc012\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: As we have said, the Employment Relations Amendment Bill is a very moderate bill. It was carefully drafted to give new employees the opportunities to get their feet in the employment door. It is not about taking away existing rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249c4471b1a264deabb53cd10a3014d07\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229808b280cac44059b3bfcc3f0538403f\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: If the members on the other side of the House would like to read the bill, they would see that it does not apply to existing employees. It applies only to prospective employees, and it is only by agreement. I refer, firstly, to the labour issues spokesperson, Mr Mallard, who commented about mediation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0943379ac374a8cbdebd303724d83af\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Trevor Mallard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd77149373ab4181844932b9ab977a1f\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Mr Mallard said that, once sacked, mediation would not apply. That shows an alarming ignorance of employment law by the previous Minister of Labour because, if that was correct, under the Employment Relations Act at the moment no sacked employee whatsoever would have access to any mediation services. Perhaps Mr Mallard might like to refer to sections of the Act, such as section 146, which refers to \u201Cpersons\u201D rather than \u201Cemployees\u201D, in respect of where mediation is covered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EI refer to the Hon Mr Goff\u2019s questions. He asked why the bill cannot be referred to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e018429f2ad4d37883906b1dde9d4b7\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: No, you have missed out the first question entirely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022765a1bf577f444b9b8169c25a4235e01\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The choice of when I answer questions is mine, thank you, I say to Mr Goff. The Hon Mr Goff asked a question about why the bill was not referred to a select committee. A very similar bill was referred to a select committee in 2006. The recommendation stated that the vote was tied and therefore lost. There were 619 submissions on that bill and we addressed much of the opposition to the bill. As I said in my second reading speech, one of the objections was that employees would be reluctant to change jobs if they were subject to a probation period. That is why we have made it by agreement. We are not forcing a trial period on employees. We are saying to employees to go to an employer and say \u201CGive me a chance, give me a try, and I will prove myself in that 3-month period.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThere were concerns during that original select committee hearing about human rights and discrimination. We have specifically protected rights against sexual and racial discrimination. Those protections of human rights and health and safety still remain. They are still protected. One of the other objections made at the original select committee hearing was that it would allow employers to engage employees on a series of probationary periods\u2014in other words, the 89-day rollover. Again, we have provided for that, because the employer of somebody who has been previously employed by that employer cannot use that same probationary period. We have added in those safety mechanisms because we appreciate that there are some unscrupulous employers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EWhat we have done is to balance the interests of the employer and the employee, and we have come up with a bill that is a win-win situation. It has safety mechanisms in it. It has a trial period for which small businesses have been asking for many, many years. In fact, the Small Business Advisory Group report in 2003-04, which was referred to, had as its first and foremost recommendation a trial period for small businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe member Darien Fenton asked why this provision applies to businesses with fewer than 20 employees. Well, 20 is the recognised number for small to medium sized business enterprises. Those are also businesses that are less likely to have the human resources capabilities to make, perhaps, those right recruitment decisions. We have again added that extra protection to give small businesses the confidence to employ workers who are perhaps on the margins and perhaps have not been in the workforce before, and to give those prospective employees an opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe other protection that we have specifically stated is that those on a benefit who enter into a trial period that does not work out for some reason other than their own fault will not have to face the stand-down period on their benefit. We want to encourage workers to go off the benefit with the confidence that they can go back on to it if their trial period does not work, so they can get some confidence, and have the opportunity to enter into the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u00223ac69095b8544ef5b388a9c7031f88e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ac69095b8544ef5b388a9c7031f88e7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Frankly, that was pathetic. I said before that this Committee has one opportunity only to get accountability from the Minister of Labour, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, and the Minister ignored all of the questions that were asked of her. She ignored all of the questions. Let me put them again, Minister, so you can take a note this time and answer the questions that are being asked of you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d981aeca67bc4ddcbd11898274d748df\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I think we have a pretty unique situation here, where the member has had, according to my count, probably half a dozen rulings from presiding officers over the last few days about what is now a relentless abuse of a strong parliamentary convention, which is that members do not address members by the term \u201Cyou\u201D. By convention, for the benefit of members who do not know this, I say use of that term can only refer to the Chair, and it is wrong to bring the Chair into debate. That is against the Standing Orders. I think the Leader of the Opposition can be forgiven for doing that three or four times, in his excitement. But you have given a ruling earlier tonight, which I heard, and the member is continuing to do it. He is continuing to do it because he is trying to pressure the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, in a highly personal way. That is not how Parliament does business. Members can yell at Ministers in the chair and they can ask hard questions, but they cannot use that term. The member is getting into the position where he is flouting consistent rulings from the Chair. Either the Chair asserts its authority, or the rest of the Committee will have to assert its right to have the Standing Orders obeyed, not flouted consistently by a senior member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c757dd11d5104fd3a18fe1f384ffadf2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How pathetic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dabbe4c2648848eb9b61df63e7e6b614\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Points of order are to be heard in silence, and if the member does not think that is a serious matter, I say it is. To have a Leader of the Opposition consistently flouting rulings from the Chair is something that the Parliament takes seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b734756847d4cb1ae933504cf9339ef\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf8e54b74256446f8b3761cf5542b82c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not need any help on this matter. I will just comment on the Hon Bill English\u2019s point of order. I made it very clear at the beginning of this debate that members were not to use the word \u201Cyou\u201D. That does bring the Chair into the debate, and we are not to have that any longer. It has happened over the last couple of days. Other presiding officers have commented on that, and we want it to stop, because it is an abuse of the process. Members cannot use the word \u201Cyou\u201D, and it will not be accepted. We now move on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228242f54397c449d4a8f610dd4a9148d1\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Committee can reasonably expect accountability from the Minister, given that this matter is not being referred to a select committee. Therefore I ask of you, Mr Chair, that when questions are asked of the Minister, you ensure that an honest attempt is made to answer them. No honest attempt was made. The questions were universally ignored. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI will put those questions again, and I would like, Mr Chairperson, to have some quiet from the Opposition, because I fear that the Minister is not hearing the questions over barracking such as that we are hearing right now. I want her to understand what the questions are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EMy first question to the Minister is: since she asserted in her initial speech in the first reading that no rights were being denied to employees, why does the clause we are debating say employees will be denied the right to bring a personal grievance or legal proceedings in respect of a dismissal? And why can it be considered fair that if a person is dismissed for bad reason, without legitimate reason being given, such a person should properly be denied access to due process to challenge that dismissal? Those are questions one and two. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EQuestion three is: as this bill is not coming into effect until 1 April, why is it not being referred to a select committee, where public submissions could be considered and proper scrutiny of the bill by members of the House could be allowed instead of it being rammed through under urgency tonight? The Minister partially attempted to answer that question by saying it had gone to a select committee before, which patently it has not; it was a member\u2019s bill that went to a select committee. The member\u2019s bill had some similarity to this one, and it was rejected by 527 submissions out of 619. Is it therefore simply the result of the sheer arrogance of this Government that because a similar bill went to a select committee and was roundly rejected, it will not take the chance of subjecting this legislation to similar scrutiny? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI want to know from the Minister\u2014this is question No. 5, I think\u2014when a law was last passed through this Parliament that took away fundamental rights, such as the right to due process if one is unfairly dismissed, without that law being referred to a select committee. That is a very clear question, and I expect the Minister to be accountable and answer it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe sixth question is: given that stakeholders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba7f8037f8054093ac617f5b694c6f2d\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. During that exchange\u2014and this is not directed at the leader of the Labour Party\u2014the gentleman sitting next to the Hon Phil Goff threatened the Minister in the chair. The leader of the Labour Party may not have heard it because he was in full flight, but the Hon Darren Hughes used the words \u201CI\u2019m watching you.\u201D, and he was pointing in a threatening manner. That sort of behaviour is for the older members of the Labour caucus, certainly not for the jumped-up little person in that seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222afd4135a9844aa490aea5bb498c2c1d\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I think that of all the things I am known for, being threatening is not one of them. I was telling the Minister that she was busy chatting away to the Government whips or to her colleagues over there, and she was not listening to the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s questions. He was having to use one of his calls in order to put his questions again, because they were not answered the first time. I said to her that she was not even listening to them or writing them down. She then showed me a pad of paper, and I said: \u201CI\u2019m watching you; you weren\u2019t writing it down.\u201D Mr Henare, who thinks only in terms of aggression, which is interesting, then decided that was some sort of terrible abuse. I would be amazed if the Minister felt that, because we were in a dialogue with each other, and Mr Henare is not the referee of interjections between members. So I am perplexed to know what he is talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb0b1caad0ba4761aade8229c0978e72\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Hon Darren Hughes. I just caution members about the language they use. I did not hear the comment. We will move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226997c85e9ab48e3ba53e4d54e6bf529\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 7 to the Minister is, and was: was she aware of the criticism of this measure by stakeholders, the Council of Trade Unions, the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union, FinSec, the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists, and, most important, the Human Rights Commission, all of whom have been critical of the fact that they have been denied the right to have their voice heard? And is she going to arrogantly override that concern by continuing to deny those interested stakeholders the chance to have their voices heard in the normal democratic way that applies to almost every piece of legislation that is passed by the country? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe final question\u2014we shall call it question No. 8\u2014was whether she accepts the criticism by the Human Rights Commissioner that rushed legislation is potentially risky legislation. Was this legislation rushed? If not, why was it not available to members until a quarter to midnight last night? Was that because the legislation was in fact rushed\u2014the Government had just finished drafting it\u2014or was it because Gerry Brownlee was so absolutely arrogant that he did not want any member of this Parliament to see it, so it could be subjected to scrutiny? If that is the case, is the Minister satisfied that not sending the bill to a select committee so that the select committee can scrutinise it, not allowing public submissions so that the public can have a say, and not even allowing members of Parliament to see the bill until midnight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00224949e6393ea047cc9cd982f299429fc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224949e6393ea047cc9cd982f299429fc0\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House): \u003C/span\u003EI seek leave to table a document that shows just one of the numerous occasions over the last 9 years when the Labour Party took particularly urgent actions to pass bills without the bill being on the Table. It just happens that in this case the bill related\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc985322047346cd95adbd330c145c59\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought to table this document\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4d8ce741cc4af884119b6f9d60cf9d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have to tell him what is in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f135aa94ebea410fbf3c8963915d9429\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: You have said enough. We know what is in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a88123100f4c228d070bca08342577\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what is in it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273501101a8f54129a9ada607a424d290\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, the member may continue to describe the document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c5a83ce28f4ce9b49c6429de2ce937\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: It just happens to be a document\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225aa0c14193a49d086bd66d53b606ab4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The member just needs to describe the document. He does not need to read it out in full.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a447e29519f6436e8487c1760d610159\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: OK. The bill in question, of course, was the Appropriation (Parliamentary Expenditure Validation) Bill, which made legal the illegal spending of Labour in 2005\u2014and I can say that Labour members did not want the public to know about that, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299839b3aecae40d285f8c56d555ac556\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022 data-id=\u002232f07896b5a344c99060350458fe9e06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232f07896b5a344c99060350458fe9e06\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E The Leader of the Opposition\u2014who frankly would be better advised to spend his time up in his office signing off his Christmas cards rather than coming down here and making a fool of himself\u2014purports to ask eight questions. He really only asked one question: why did the bill not go to a select committee? The truth is that this issue was extensively debated in the select committee. I inform that member that all the people who wanted to make a submission on the issue did make one. Interestingly enough, of course, 837 of the submissions were form submissions by hardcore, leftist trade unionists. I guess that may be disappointing to members opposite, but how seriously can one take submissions that are just written out by the Service and Food Workers Union on a little postcard, for heaven\u2019s sake? The truth is that these issues were extensively debated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EThis bill has actually benefited from that select committee process. When the bill I proposed came back for its second reading, the document from the select committee that was tabled in the House set out the nature of the amendments that would have been made had the bill got to the Committee of the whole House. Virtually all of those issues have been picked up in this bill. Effectively, it is as if this bill had gone to the select committee, and the issues that the Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues are concerned about have been thoroughly canvassed. That is precisely why there is a mediation provision in the bill before us now. That was one of the outcomes of the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EThe other issue was the ability to go to the Employment Relations Authority and the Employment Court on the human rights issues. Initially in my bill they were going to go to the Human Rights Commission, but it was considered after hearing the submissions that it would be better to keep that within the authority. That also is now reflected in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022762753035f1e443189a8af0384fe0b65\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: But you were going to abolish it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220233c976a6104131be5c9db5cffb4aaf\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Again we hear from the Opposition. That is complete ignorance on its part. There was never any suggestion, ever, on this side of the Chamber that we would abolish the Human Rights Commission. What an absurdity! That is another untruthful statement coming from those members. There was never any suggestion of that. When we think about it, why would I suggest that when I actually had it as the remedy in the bill I proposed? It is simply absurd, and I advise the member that if she and her colleagues are going to spend hours debating this bill, then they should at least get their facts right before they do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003ESo the core issues, which seem to be exercising at least the minds of some members on the other side, have been answered. The issues that are relevant have been fully addressed in the select committee. The only people who would make submissions are precisely the people who have already made those submissions and their concerns have actually been addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EOne of the bizarre issues that I keep hearing from Darien Fenton, who is obviously an ardent unionist, and I guess we would understand that, is that this bill will send New Zealand employment relations back into some dim, dark past. I remind that member and, indeed, New Zealanders at large, of two things. First, we are the only country, along with Denmark, in the OECD that does not have a proper probation period\u2014that is, it does not have access to the full processes of the Employment Relations Authority and the Employment Court. Certainly there will be mediation. The second issue that she keeps raising is that this bill will somehow mean it will be difficult for people to get jobs. That is the actual suggestion; that this will make it difficult for people to get jobs. Do Opposition members not get it? The whole point of this legislation is to make it easier for people to get jobs, and that is the clear and obvious intention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to remind members that this issue was put fairly and squarely to New Zealanders in the general election. There was a result in that election. Members opposite were once on this side of the Chamber. They are now on the other side. The reason is that they lost the election on this issue and on others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002219368b6fc9d143389ab3bc8c998703e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219368b6fc9d143389ab3bc8c998703e1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I want to thank the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, albeit in a relatively limited way, for her response. I counted about 15 questions that were asked, and she was kind enough to address one of them. But unfortunately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022586242ea9f6d473396d9a6f60e7b0fbe\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: But not answered? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264d67c1d178f4ab5a6b3ae4ed641043c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she did answer it, but unfortunately she got the answer wrong. The question is one of mediation, and earlier I asked her whether someone is in fact still an employee after he or she is dismissed. She quite correctly pointed out that section 144 of the Act\u2014and in particular subsection (2) in paragraphs (b), (c), and, most important, (d)\u2014refers to persons. I think if clause 67B(4) had referred to persons, then they would be caught. Unfortunately, unlike the primary Act, the amending bill refers to employees. These people are not employees, because their employment has been terminated. I do not want to suggest reconciliation, because I do not want to get as close as that, but in the spirit of helpfulness I ask the Minister whether she is prepared to accept an amendment that changes \u201Cemployee\u201D to \u201Cperson whose previous employment agreement\u201D, or similar words. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EIt is not a complex issue, but there is a difference between the Act and the amending bill. A court would not be able to go to these issues; there could be declaratory judgment, but an individual could not take a case. It is possible a court could go there around a declaratory judgment. I am sure some of my learned friends will be able to outline that relatively soon. The court tends to think that Parliament does things deliberately, and if it says that a person whose employment relationship that has broken down and terminated can go to mediation, but in the amendment it says an employee\u2014and clearly it is not an employee\u2014I think it could well be the case that a court would say, on the basis not of an individual case but on review if the question is part of a case stated, that Parliament has acted deliberately. They will think that we know what we are doing. They will think that the Minister knows what she is doing, and that she has acted deliberately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224820355cbd549f5add95205a79c3271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222109417515594b3388a3a088647e3a64\u0022\u003ERt Hon Helen Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Very unlikely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc07f0e79634cb9974117cfcf67a1fc\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The former Prime Minister says that it is very unlikely that the court would think that; unfortunately, I tell the member, what happens is that we ask the courts to take us seriously and to consider that we do things deliberately. There is a clear differentiation here from what is in the Act in section 144(2), paragraphs (b), (c), and (d), where it refers to persons. I accept the advice that it refers to persons. I then ask the Minister why this clause of the bill does not refer to persons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8c192209bd549e3a9554b2cb9b014a4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member which clause he is referring to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225916cd9353ff4536accd337348b18986\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am referring to the clause the Minister referred to in her reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fba9e0b38514358b7404ee6b201429a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: We are debating Part 1, not Part 2. I bring you back to Part 1, as that is the part we are debating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288f0d39be25341e8b18ca39e693e88b3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Chair, I am quite happy for one of my colleagues to continue on that. I thought it would be useful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI raise a point of order, Mr Chairman. Are you going to rule on Mr Brownlee\u2019s interjection while you were ruling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cef1d3cc18f24b15a97e6de9826934c7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are just carrying on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd85a451e1d7459eb78ee3b8b16512cd\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am therefore happy for my colleagues who have comments to continue, given your direction that this matter be considered, and I think considered very, very carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba5e8df315a1458e8d3773e1ef8b41a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba5e8df315a1458e8d3773e1ef8b41a1\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, first of all I congratulate you on your appointment, because it is the first time I have been able to speak in this Chamber since you have been appointed to your position. I will address you for just the first couple of minutes because you, of course, are in your first 90 days in this position, and I would expect that if you were taken aside by Parliament\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d30af2f999094d67861dd8e6978a781d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot bring the Chair into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af243a71a1994e2380ed0679fba7f828\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: It was deliberate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286cbf28faab74694ae0d301e8c275c3c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I warned earlier on that you cannot use the word \u201Cyou\u201D; you cannot bring me into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022703e199f248549d8afecd29feec474c7\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am actually specifically addressing you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cba79f06a6064ccc87255810e7ba34f4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you cannot address me. We are addressing Part 1 of this bill, and the member should confine her comments and debate to Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b7c259bf52543eb817fa39e59b010e4\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: You can talk about Gerry, though; he is stuffing up his 90 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6983b44304f4e93b5ab06b720a0dd75\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member Darren Hughes has moved out of his seat to interject, and under the Standing Orders a member may not move from his or her seat in order to have a clearer spot to interject from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e62f98a929f4e69b9c4ba5031cc8d70\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chairperson, I have some useful information for you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287046afd0a57443cb894b3e762bb221c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need any information. The member can shift to anywhere within the Labour seats, but he cannot shift to make interjections from a seat that gives him an advantage over the one where he would normally sit. We will move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba285979d9b4fcfbff16c741027aa89\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: In the Committee stage of a bill we would normally be referring to the select committee process, and talking about the submissions and what had come back to us from the select committee. In talking about Part 1, including the purpose of this bill, of course we cannot talk about what happened in the select committee on this bill, because there has not been a select committee process. I was on the select committee during the term of the last Parliament when the member\u2019s bill that was similar to this bill, but was not this bill, was actually considered by the select committee. But it was not the same consideration that there would have been of this bill, because no one had the opportunity, for example, to debate or present a submission on the issue of how this measure would affect small businesses. So no one has had the opportunity to tell us that small businesses will actually suffer as a result of this bill because they will not be able to compete with large businesses, which, of course, can attract the sort of staff who want job security and stability. Those small businesses have not had the opportunity to come to the select committee to talk about their issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EOrganisations are running red hot in pumping out press releases, because they do not have the ability to participate through the normal democratic process. They are pumping out press statements because that is their only opportunity to be heard. This Parliament has stopped organisations from following the normal democratic process, so groups like the New Zealand Federation of Business and Professional Women have put out press statements. What did the federation have to say? It stated: \u201CWe have worked hard to improve the status of women in New Zealand over the past 70 years, and to hear that New Zealand might soon have a law that would allow employers to fire an employee without reason or redress horrifies us.\u201D The federation is horrified at this law. It further states: \u201CEmployers should have robust employment processes and administer them competently to ensure they employ the right person, rather than rely on being able to sack someone if they find they got it wrong.\u201D That press statement was released by Mrs Faye Gardiner, who is the president of the Federation of Business and Professional Women. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EAnother organisation that has had to pump out a press release, because it has not had the opportunity to address this bill through the normal, democratic select committee process, is the New Zealand Educational Institute. We all heard what Anne Tolley promised the institute when she talked about teachers, and that has been an issue of some contention in this debate. Well, this is what the institute has said: \u201CThousands of schools and early childhood centres will be affected by the government\u2019s \u2018Fire at Will\u2019 bill which is being pushed through parliament today under urgency.\u201D The institute understands the employment relationship; it knows that teachers in thousands of schools and early childhood centres will be affected by this measure. The institute now knows that Anne Tolley did not tell it the truth when she went to its conference. The institute has further stated: \u201CMany teachers and principals move to gain promotion but they would be reluctant to move to a new job where there was no certainty of employment for the first 90 days. The law will jeopardise professional and career development and make it even more difficult for small, rural and remote schools and centres to attract experienced staff.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EI will talk a little about what we did hear during the submission process on the member\u2019s bill about the purpose of this measure. My colleagues have quite rightly said that, far and away, most of the submissions were opposed to this measure. New Zealanders believe in fairness for everyone. It does not matter whether it is an employee\u2019s first day, 20th day, or 20th year in a job\u2014New Zealanders believe in fairness. This bill takes away workers\u2019 rights, and the Minister of Labour, Kate Wilkinson, has still not addressed that issue. How can she stand up and say this bill does not take away workers\u2019 rights, when it clearly strips away workers\u2019 right to take a personal grievance? It clearly strips away their right to go to the Employment Relations Authority. I ask the Minister to explain how this bill does not take away the rights of employees who work for a small employer in the first 90 days of their employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff8c70eba3da4caeb4d7d0c9db42c869\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff8c70eba3da4caeb4d7d0c9db42c869\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I was sitting in my office a while back and I heard people waxing lyrical on the efforts of the Small Business Advisory Group. I know intimately the work of that group because I had the pleasure of being its Minister for a period of time. I have here three of its reports: one is from August 2004, one is from March 2006, and I have just got off the Internet the 2008 report as well. The only report of the Small Business Advisory Group that the Minister in the chair, Kate Wilkinson, referred to was its 2004 report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe Minister completely failed to note that the group responded to the fact that the Government of the day did not want to let employers off the hook in terms of their needing to understand how important it was to employ the right people for the job and to ensure that they had good-quality information so that they could make good employment decisions right from the outset. It is absolutely extraordinary that the National Government somehow seems to think that it is OK to let employers off the hook in this regard. We all know that if the expectations on both sides of the employment relationship are not well established right from the outset, then no productivity whatsoever will be built from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI cannot understand why National is holding to the first of the Small Business Advisory Group\u2019s reports, when we know that the group\u2019s view changed. In the first report the group was very much in favour of the personal grievance - free period. In the second report it was also in favour of the personal grievance - free period, but at the same time it wrote to me, the Minister for Small Business, and said that it was really important that we got to the bottom of the real problem. The real problem was that employers were paying out money to people they felt were not performing in the job, because the employers feared the consequences of ending up in a personal grievance situation. They would rather just pay the employees off and make the problem go away. The Small Business Advisory Group sent a letter to me asking for a new mediation system that would enable mediators to listen to the essence of the issues before them, give some guidance, and make a decision when that was appropriate; the group also proposed that there would be limited rights of appeal. That was something that the Government of the day was having a look at. So an employment facilitation process was how the group responded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe Minister has completely ignored the group\u2019s latest report. It might be worthwhile to table it, because I do not think the Minister has actually read it. The Small Business Advisory Group in its latest report reiterated its \u201Csupport for grievance-free probationary periods. However, we would take a [much] more targeted approach than our predecessors and believe that, whilst preserving human rights protections for all employees, [the provisions] should apply to any businesses with 15 or fewer full-time employees.\u201D I want to know why the Minister has chosen to apply this bill to firms with 20 part-time or full-time employees. She has made no differentiation. She has not actually looked at the group\u2019s report. I want to know why National has not taken up that proposal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe Small Business Advisory Group further stated that the most important thing was to \u201Cbreak the cycle of misconception and destructive behaviours during employment disputes. Our recommendation involves making it easier for both employers and employees to get access to balanced and helpful advice relevant to their particular dispute.\u201D The group\u2019s recommendation was \u201CThat information on good practice in employment relationships tailored to small business owners and managers, preferably endorsed by employer organisations, be made more readily available and be better promoted.\u201D That sounds like a very good idea to me because it does not let employers off the hook. We know that a lot of small employers are seeking an easy way out rather than addressing the real problem, which is the failure to have really good processes in place in order to establish expectations on both sides of the employment relationship. We have heard members opposite say that Labour talks about one side of the employment relationship only; well, I say that the expectations on both sides of the relationship are very, very important indeed. I would like an answer from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022 data-id=\u00221b09d74bd95e4600880129712bf91d50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b09d74bd95e4600880129712bf91d50\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I start by congratulating Lianne Dalziel on her very constructive comments. Although the Minister in the chair, Kate Wilkinson, may not have been listening, I would hope that members on the other side of the Chamber were listening. Maybe they were thinking they should slip outside and talk to the officials; maybe they were thinking that there had been some constructive advice from this side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EThis is a sad day; it has been a sad few days in this Chamber. We have seen ordinary Kiwis absolutely dealt to by the National - M\u0101ori Party - ACT - United Future Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242d3368c241640d0a5d4df517b63c1f5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a four-headed monster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a7ae5405f0240ea9de1344919b026bc\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EWe have seen either tax increases or the status quo for low-paid workers and modest-income earners. We have seen innovative businesses dealt to. We have seen people\u2019s KiwiSaver dreams and aspirations slashed by National within 2 days. But if we look back at this debate, we see that the most insulting thing is for members opposite to argue: \u201CWe\u2019re from the Government and we\u2019re here to help workers. We are giving you the right to be sacked in the first 3 months of your employment. We are here to help you and we will make it really easy for you. We are here to provide a really bright future.\u201D Yeah, right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EI can see that every time a member on this side of the Chamber who has had involvement with workers or unions gets up to speak, Government members froth at the mouth. I want to talk about the union movement. I want to talk about unions, which advocate for warning procedures, which teach delegates\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bab7da6bbf742148bff5f66bfbb840b\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Whatever. You haven\u2019t done a hard day\u2019s work in your life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aef7de88a634c389f1b1a3d12cdd56b\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Who said \u201CWhatever.\u201D? The laziest union official in New Zealand, Tau Henare. He is right\u2014he never did anything on the job. He was lazy. Every other official in the union movement gets out there and tells employers that if they want to have a good relationship with their employees, they should make things clear and have good procedures. They tell employers that they should not threaten employees, and that if there is a problem they should give warnings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c904b7fc28e24ec98c1e341c1b8bb894\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: How can I be the laziest union official? They\u2019re all lazy. Where do you think I got it from? I used to work with Rick Barker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acb071afbf4642dd8d202b3837a8cddb\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Poor old Tau! He never got it. He was too busy skiving off work, as he does around here. He never got on to it. But I am telling him that members who have worked in the union movement, worked for workers\u2019 interests, and worked to see businesses do well know that good businesses say to their employees: \u201CLet\u2019s have a constructive relationship. Let\u2019s talk about how to make things go right, and if there are problems, let\u2019s talk about how we address them.\u201D They do not put people\u2019s livelihoods at risk because they may or may not make a mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EWorkers might change their hairstyle, as Wayne Mapp has done. He got innovative; he went out and got a cool hairstyle. We in Parliament say we like it and he looks cool; MPs in Parliament have been saying that Dr Mapp has made an effort and he looks nice. But an employer might say: \u201CWayne, I don\u2019t like your hairstyle, so you\u2019re sacked.\u201D Where is the redress? It is a new hairstyle. It is a 90-day hairstyle. [Interruption] Exactly! Members on this side are saying that that sort of thing needs to stop. We need a constructive dialogue. Although Tau Henare, when he was in the union movement, did not promote that, we did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EThe employers\u2019 organisations have to take some responsibility here. They have a duty to educate their members, their constituency, about constructive working relationships. The answer is not to lose people\u2019s skills or to deprive people of their livelihoods because they have not had the opportunity to put things right. If they have made a real error\u2014rather than doing something that the employer just does not like, on a whim\u2014or if they are not performing, then surely it is fair and reasonable that that issue is raised with them so that they can correct it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u0022df3b254bc9c341c0a4b8be8697c0c963\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df3b254bc9c341c0a4b8be8697c0c963\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on Part 1. I have some questions for the Minister in the chair, Kate Wilkinson. First, I want to know which one of the two stories she has been telling on this bill is the correct one. She said the public do not need to be worried about this bill because it is not the Wayne Mapp bill. Then she said that it does not need to go to a select committee, because it is the Wayne Mapp bill that has come before this Parliament. So the simple question is which one of those two stories is true, and, by proxy, which one was misleading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe second question I have for the Minister in the chair is whether she understands the difference between a member\u2019s bill and a Government bill. Does she understand the difference between member\u2019s bill that did not have the numbers to pass and that the public never expected to become law, and a Government bill that the public knows will be passed but did not expect to be rammed through under urgency\u2014a bill that will nevertheless be on the statute book and that the public would like to have a say on? I want to know whether the Minister in the chair understands that difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003ELet us look at clause 4. It states that the purpose of the legislation is to provide for a trial period of no longer than 90 days. That is fine; that is what is in the current law. In fact, the current law is more flexible. Workers can negotiate a trial period that is shorter than that or longer than that. But the clause goes on to state\u2014and this is the crux of it\u2014that an employer can dismiss an employee without the employee being able to bring a personal grievance or legal proceedings in respect of the dismissal. I want to know how on earth the Minister thinks that that is not a removal of rights. I want to know in what parallel universe she thinks that that is not a removal of rights, given that employees now can bring a personal grievance or legal proceedings in respect of a dismissal. It is a simple question, and I think the workers of New Zealand deserve an answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThen the clause states: \u201Csubject to certain exceptions;\u201D, and the Minister has made a big deal of this. She said she has made sure that the human rights of every worker will be upheld.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e33fcf36d5104a60ab511f4019d05a6e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am sure Tau Henare did not really mean that you are a grievance, but he should not bring you into the debate in that way, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe699d53abe64aaea9b0b2a95a86cb07\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ecfa4de3bca41b6aa0a521878d64159\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has apologised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f450d11936324ae8bd89c00df297608b\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, the Minister in the chair has made a big deal of the fact that she is protecting the human rights of every worker. So my question to her is how she will police this provision. How will she get into the minds of every employer who lets someone go within that 90-day period? How will she know why that person was let go? How will she know that someone who fired a worker because he or she did not like the colour of the skin of that person\u2019s wife or husband, fired the worker for that very reason, when that employer just says: \u201CI\u2019m sorry; you just don\u2019t fit in this job.\u201D? How will the Minister know? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EAlso, how can she possibly know this when the bill states that it is not required that a reason be given as to why that person has been let go? One does not even have to give written reason. So how will we know the reasons why someone has been let go, so that we can police it and know that the reason is fair? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI also ask the Minister in the chair whether she appreciates the fact that although everyone appreciates that employing people, with their terms and conditions and their wages, is a cost to a business, that same money also puts food on the tables of working families? Does she appreciate that it puts a roof over the heads of them and their families, and feeds and clothes their children? I have not heard one word from her. I have not heard one word from any member in the National-ACT Government who has talked about the livelihoods of workers and the fact that the money they are complaining about is the very money that feeds and clothes those children. Those members will stand up and complain about law and order and never make a connection to low pay and to people being dismissed unfairly and not having a job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EMy last question to the Minister is this: does she not think it is offensive to tell workers who have been let go from their job unfairly that they should feel grateful that she has allowed them to go back on a benefit right away? Does she not believe that that is offensive to working people, or does she genuinely believe she is being generous?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8f02afc64f5451c88dc0edc996bb027\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c502d6d1092d4ca7b7e616e5934e3571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8f02afc64f5451c88dc0edc996bb027\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022055bd43efab04377a17f66d591db9795\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022055bd43efab04377a17f66d591db9795\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I raise this matter with you because you were not in the Chair at the time when I raised and enumerated eight questions with the Minister in the chair. I ask you, before you consider taking any closure, to give the Minister a chance to give answers to the questions, which I understand she has written down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285222606a5b9463bb7ede58faf34e144\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: It is not for me to direct the Minister in the chair as to whether she will answer questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u002256b32a30ddfb4cc189c9fc119c3ef5ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256b32a30ddfb4cc189c9fc119c3ef5ab\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a brief call to highlight an issue that was brought up on the taxation bill, and in the case of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill it pertains to the adequacy statement in the explanatory note of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWhat we have regarding this bill is a series of events. First, it is going through under urgency, even though it will not be implemented until April. So the first excuse for urgency is gone. Then there is no select committee process at all. There is no chance for any public input at all, even though Mr O\u2019Reilly from Business New Zealand, who, as my colleague Lianne Dalziel and other colleagues have alluded to, is probably more sympathetic to the National Party way of thinking than to ours, has said it is not appropriate to ram this measure through. Mr O\u2019Reilly, who is a man of principle even though I may disagree with some of what he says, wanted there to be a public process, so that there would be scrutiny and quality control of the bill. Under urgency there is no public input and no select committee input at all. Then we have a Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, who, since I have been in the Chamber, has not answered any of the questions about the bill that have been put up by speaker after speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI want to address something to the ACT Party, given that its tanned Minister from the sunset-tan paradise of Epsom is the regulatory-buster, or the Minister\u2014what is his name\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b25a6543aedd4e48b68ff753d088c01e\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister for Regulatory Reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b871d8efec98440397073f420018134c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: He is the Minister for Regulatory Reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022859f6aa0dc6349dda4c8634f29479523\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The cockatoo!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df2af010b1ef4e169dc14b0f2b50c7f8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I would not say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab7f43857aea47909f51370c4968d93b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re far too statesmanlike!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276c9bc0a7c1f494cb664fac793ee7053\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, I am far too statesmanlike, as my leader says, to say that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ELast night a bill went through the House with a regulatory impact statement that was inadequate. But that slid by Rodney Hide. Today we are looking at this bill, and we see the adequacy statement states this: \u201CIt has not been possible for the Regulatory Impact Analysis Team to undertake an assessment of the adequacy of the Regulatory Impact Analysis and the Regulatory Impact Statement for this proposal within the time frames.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EOne then has to say that Mr Hide, being a member of the executive, being well briefed on this bill, and being the regulatory-busting Minister who went on Close Up and said: \u201CBring me your waifs and strays\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291f9c9f7aeba45389b85310b56392521\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Here he is!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232de5b1e9bb645d8865a41e23b6b63fc\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Here he is, back from the tanning machine. He said: \u201CBring me all your problems. Send them care of Rodney Hide, Parliament Buildings, and I will fix them.\u201D He missed the first bill that went through, and I could say that I am sympathetic to Mr Hide about that, because he is a new Minister and he is probably still getting the office straightened out, the boxes unpacked, and the infrared machine set up in the bathroom. However, to miss one piece of legislation where the regulatory impact statement was inadequate is one thing, but now we have the second. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI wonder whether Mr Hide would take a call and tell us why he was asleep\u2014maybe not at the wheel, but at the tanning machine\u2014not earning his pay, grandstanding in the media, and saying he is the regulatory-buster who will sort all the issues out and cut through red tape. For the benefit of Mr Hide, who may not have heard me because he may have been in a different part of the Chamber, I will read again the adequacy statement for which he is the regulatory-buster. The statement, which he will be more familiar with than I am, says this on this bill: \u201CIt has not been possible for the Regulatory Impact Analysis Team to undertake an assessment of the adequacy\u201D\u2014I know there are a few big words in there for Rodney Hide to understand, but we will give it a go\u2014\u201Cof the Regulatory Impact Analysis and the Regulatory Impact Statement for this proposal within the time frames.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222e4f861ea774a0b9abedc1ad97b3b46\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s rushed legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224907ef3bc5324477a1669d295f168fce\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: My leader is right; this is rushed legislation. Presumably Mr Hide was in the loop\u2014in the bathroom, or somewhere. But presumably he was briefed as the regulatory-buster in the executive\u2014the man who will cut through red tape and dispose of regulation. He will turbo-boost regulation out the door. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis is the second bill that has passed Mr Hide by. I have not yet looked at the other bills, but I suspect they are all the same. I would like Mr Hide to tell us why he is not doing his job. He is now paid a big fat salary, he now has the cars and the office, and he has pontificated for years about what he would do if he made it into the executive and how he would slash red tape. Yet either he was too lazy or too silly\u2014I could use another word, but I will not\u2014or he was asleep at the wheel, not in the building, or not doing his job, because this bill is rushed legislation. By Mr Hide\u2019s own standard of regulatory performance, he has not even had the decency, the professionalism, or the fortitude to stand up and say: \u201CHang on, the ACT Party believes in getting rid of regulation or having quality regulation.\u201D We now have our second piece of inadequate legislation in 24 hours, and he is asleep at the wheel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWell, we will hold Mr Hide, the great perk-buster, scam-buster, and now regulatory-buster, to account for that. Mr Hide is asleep either at the tanning machine or at the wheel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022 data-id=\u0022906404107b0b47b99cdee3d5483948b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022906404107b0b47b99cdee3d5483948b7\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to return to some of the questions I asked earlier on of the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, because, when she responded, no answers were forthcoming. I would like to put those questions to her again in terms of the purpose of the bill, because she has not answered those questions, and I have some additional questions. I asked how the number of staff in a workplace will be calculated. Are we talking about full-time equivalents, casuals\u2014including contractors and external contractors\u2014or temporary workers? How will the calculation happen? That will be an important point when a worker or an employer comes to decide whether he or she has to comply with this proposed legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EAlso, how will the Minister ensure that separate businesses are not created within larger workplaces for the purposes of exploiting the provisions of this bill? The Minister will say that that will not happen, but it did happen under the Employment Contracts Act when large workplaces created small subsections of their workplaces so that they did not have to have one department on an employment contract. So it has happened in the past and I ask the Minister how she will ensure that this bill is not abused in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI have another question about the youth qualifying period for the minimum wage. Will the bill have any impact on the 200 hours involved in that? If a worker is sacked under the provisions of this bill will it have any impact on the youth qualifying period? There is also another very important question related to that. If someone is sacked under this legislation and there is no statement of cause, and no requirement to give any reason, what will be the status of that person\u2019s employment record? Is that person sacked? What is he or she required to tell the next employer? If the next employer rings up for a reference, what is the original employer supposed to tell the next employer? Will the employer say: \u201COh, well, they got sacked but we don\u2019t have to tell you the reason, because there wasn\u2019t really a reason, we just didn\u2019t like them.\u201D, or will the employer say that it was because of the 90-day probation bill? This legislation actually puts workers in a very precarious position because when they go to their next job the next employer will always ask about their previous employment. What is the status of those workers and how do they clear their name? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI know that the tax bill that was passed yesterday included the provision in relation to KiwiSaver. The explanatory note states that the provisions in the Employment Relations Act were no longer needed because the problem had been fixed, but I do not think that the legislation that was passed yesterday does fix the problem. What it does is provide that when a worker signs up for KiwiSaver the contribution has to be on top of a worker\u2019s existing wages, which does not prevent future wage rises being offset against KiwiSaver contributions. So although the explanatory note states that the provision is no longer necessary because it has been fixed, I want to know how the Minister will make sure that that does not continue to happen in the future so that the next time there is a wage rise one lot of workers will get 2 or 3 percent because they are not in KiwiSaver, whereas the workers in KiwiSaver get nothing. That was the purpose of the amendment in the name of Trevor Mallard last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EThe other question I want to ask is what the objective of mediation is. Can mediation happen only within the 3-month or 90-day period? My colleague Trevor Mallard has brought up the issue of whether those people are still employees. If they are not employees under the definition of the bill are they therefore not entitled to mediation? What is the point of mediation, and where does it go? Will it be just a nice talkfest whereby employers can say: \u201COh, we\u2019ve got some problems.\u201D? Will they still have the right to sack people? Will employers go along and have a chat about it but it will not mean anything? What is the objective if there cannot be any means of independent resolution? I would like to have those questions answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EIn addition, my colleague Sue Bradford in her second reading speech brought up some very important issues about the stand-down and about what happens. Again, it goes back to what the status of the workers is if they are sacked under these provisions. Are they sacked for the purposes of the Social Security Act, then stood down? How does Work and Income find out what their status is, because they actually do not have a status, they are just no one, they are just nothing, and they are just gone. How will Work and Income know? Will they have to make inquiries? Is it the Government\u2019s intention to try to provide some change in that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u00227fc31572be224050ad4f85de2182e2e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fc31572be224050ad4f85de2182e2e5\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022 data-id=\u002216cd1dadd54f46b3b6980aea2d285227\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216cd1dadd54f46b3b6980aea2d285227\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E We are in the second day of urgency, debating one of the most outrageous attacks on the working class of this country. It is one of the worst instances of a Government not caring, not sharing, and prattling on about cruel, unfair, un-discussed legislation. I want to pick up a few bits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori and Pacific Island people will be hugely affected. I mihi to Hone Harawira, after getting into his ears yesterday; I recognise that even though he did not have the full sanction of his party, he had the gumption to vote against this measure. That is an interesting partnership between an employer and supposed employees, and we have been only 2 days in urgency! I do not think it is going to last.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EYou know, there are some very, very pointed statements in the explanatory note of this legislation. My colleague Clayton Cosgrove pointed out the adequacy statement, and I want to repeat it: \u201CIt has not been possible for the Regulatory Impact Analysis Team to undertake an assessment of the adequacy of the Regulatory Impact Analysis and the Regulatory Impact Statement for this proposal within the time frames.\u201D That is what the yellow-jacket-wearing perk-buster let slip past him. The partners involved with the Government\u2014supposedly, a coalition Government\u2014do not know where they are going, and do not know why this bill is coming in, but the rest of the nation, which is complaining bitterly tonight, can see that it is a jack-up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EWhy do I say it is a jack-up? The explanatory notes states: \u201CThe introduction of such a trial period would encourage more businesses, especially small businesses that can find it difficult to absorb such costs,\u201D\u2014and that is understandable\u2014\u201Cto take a risk on potential employees.\u201D The Government is assuming that every employee who is taken on is a risk. What sort of mindset is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EThe bar is set at businesses with 20 employees and under. Have all those employees been a risk to take on? I ask the Minister in the chair, Kate Wilkinson, how she came to decide that the bar should be set at 20 employees. Some of us who have had businesses and who have had employees know that there has to be more than good faith; there has to be an understanding of the rights that are fundamental to this great nation, which was built by the workforce. The arrogance of the Government that has pervaded this discussion is unbelievable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EThe explanatory note states under the heading \u201CObjectives\u201D: \u201CIn considering changes to the ERA the key objectives are that the changes\u2014should not create undue compliance \u2026\u201D. The explanatory notes also states that a trial period \u201Cwill lessen compliance, for instance where small business employers may face claims on grounds of unjustified dismissal:\u201D. An assumption has been made by whoever has decided to introduce this cranky legislation\u2014the Minister in charge of it\u2014that every dismissal is justified. Is that why this legislation is here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EIn relation to the impact of it, the explanatory notes states that the bill \u201Cwill allow trial periods only by mutual agreement,\u201D. I can just imagine little Gerry, 18 years old, lining up at the gate of a business, and the employer saying: \u201CHello, little Gerry. Come into my business. I am going to employ you for 90 days, or I might bop you out after 80 days. By the way, Gerry, we have to have a mutual agreement\u2014you have to agree with me.\u201D Gerry is standing there at the gate, and he wants the job, so he says \u201CYes, bwana, I\u2019ll come in the gate.\u201D What sort of mutual agreement is that? Of course the job applicants are going to agree with the employer. Right from the outset, the poor old worker is more than penalised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EMembers opposite have huffed and puffed about rights today, but they have really damaged 73 percent of the workers in the M\u0101ori electorates around this country\u2014in the regions. Those people will get nothing out of the tax cuts. This bill is worse still; they will never get job surety, or an opportunity to pay tax. What a great Christmas present! I can just imagine Gerry, who looks like he could be Santa Claus, roaming around with his bag and dishing out nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f570034c5e774eb8ae2267d0e85745de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f570034c5e774eb8ae2267d0e85745de\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to answer a couple of the questions raised before by the member Darien Fenton\u2014and I think she made some very good points. Not in any particular order, she referred to the 200 hours\u2019 experience and asked whether, if the trial period does not work out for a young person, those hours would then be included in the 200 hours\u2019 experience. I think that is a valid point, because the definition of that 200 hours\u2019 work in the minimum wage legislation is loosely defined, and it should be made more certain. It is, of course, not within the parameters of this bill to do that. But having said that, because 200 hours\u2019 experience is loosely defined, whether it is in a trial period or otherwise, I say it would still be intended for that time to be countable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe second question related to the definition of \u201Cemployee\u201D and whether that included a full-time equivalent, a casual, etc.\u2014what that definition included. We had discussions on that, and we have stayed with the definition of \u201Cemployee\u201D that is in the principal Act. That is consistent also with the definition used in many of the employment agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe other point that was raised\u2014and I think very seriously raised by the member\u2014was about what happens if an employer deliberately forms, and I am rephrasing the words, a new entity in order to try to defeat the purposes and objectives of the Act. I think that was the intention of the question. My response to that is to say it could happen at any time during an employment agreement, whether or not there is a trial period. There are specific provisions in the principal Act\u2014in Part 6A\u2014that apply in certain circumstances, in relation to restructuring, with regard to vulnerable workers. But the other issue would be that the matter would possibly be challengeable under the good-faith provisions of the principal Act. The matter is covered under the principal Act as much as it can be, and again I say it is not within the ambit of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022958754f30f2948bf937d14b9c8daba24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022958754f30f2948bf937d14b9c8daba24\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson. I think we now have had an attempt to answer five of the 37 questions that have been put to her. I think it is progress and if we can keep going down that approach, then that will be useful and we will make some progress. I must say that her answers were not particularly convincing. Could she refer me to section 6A of the Act that she referred to in this particular case? I am sorry, I am struggling a little bit because this legislation has the Citizenship Act in front of it. Section 6A of the Act is unfortunately one that is heavily annotated in the copy of the Act that is in the lobby and it is taking a little bit of time because of the areas that are struck out in this particular area. I therefore ask the Minister a very serious question because we have Part 6A around continuity. It is part, not section; I ask whether the member meant part, not section.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f5cdaf374fa45cf807d9d46f3549b35\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: Part 6A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adf8a9f374f9448e8353c3fcb99b93e7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I have got to that. That is \u201CContinuity of employment if employees\u2019 work affected restructuring\u201D. It does not go to the definition of employee as such. I think that was the question that was being asked of the Minister in the chair. It was a question that went to the definition of \u201Cemployee\u201D, as it applies more generally in the Employment Relations Act, and, in particular, as it applies in clauses 4 and 5 of Part 1 of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI am looking quite carefully at this section of the Act, and this deals with restructuring, contracting out, and contracting in. It does not involve the sale of shares of a particular company or that sort of contract agreement and it does not go to the question that was being asked of the Minister about whether the definition of \u201Cemployer\u201D in this bill is being effectively deliberately changed in order to avoid the provisions of this Act. That was the question that was being asked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EWe now know we are on Part 6A of the Act, and if the Minister has a specific subsection that she can point to that addresses that question, I would be obliged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EWhile I have been talking, I have been reading pretty rapidly through the legislation and I have not been able to find any reference. I would be inclined to say the specific subsection to which she alluded is not in here. If it is there, I am sure she can get assistance from the officials, who will pass her a note and that will give us the indication of the subsection. In a lot of cases, especially in the interpretation section, this law gives quite a lot of rights to vulnerable workers. It appears to me that this bill is heading in exactly the opposite direction from sections 69OK, 69OH, and the other employees section; in working my way through, I see there is no definition of \u201Cemployee\u201D in this particular part. There are definitions of \u201Cvulnerable employee\u201D. Of course, I would like to ask the Minister whether she would be supportive of an amendment from us that used the current definition of \u201Cvulnerable employee\u201D to exclude them from the provisions of this bill. The people whom the Parliament had already agreed were vulnerable might be protected in the same way that Anne Tolley promised that teachers would be protected from this bill. She said that employees in schools would be protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022 data-id=\u00228453cd21432c4e9689a12a08c9ca67c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228453cd21432c4e9689a12a08c9ca67c0\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249fe5e26f06b46a383ecc93562b75ad9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: It is normal, after the Minister has spoken, to give a right of reply on similar occasions. In this case I will give the call to the Hon Lianne Dalziel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022 data-id=\u00222cb294a2de5b4b57b9a4f84a747a92f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cb294a2de5b4b57b9a4f84a747a92f3\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E There are some follow-up points that I want to make, because I really think that the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, has not addressed the fundamental issue, which is about process. The process in relation to this bill has been nothing short of appalling; it is so bad that even Business New Zealand does not want this bill to go through all stages under urgency, without the opportunity to scrutinise it in a public setting at a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI have heard various members of the National Government make the point that this bill had to be rushed through under urgency because of the need to get the legislation in place. It was kind of like saying they wanted to have people employed by Christmas and gone by Easter; that was the methodology that they really were talking about. But actually this bill does not come into effect until 1 April\u2014after Easter. So why is this an April Fool\u2019s Day bill? Why is it being dealt with under urgency and passed through all of its stages without the degree of scrutiny that one would expect from a good-quality regulatory process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229600346cc52a4e4e8d715e535bf6a7e9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. It has been brought to my attention that pressure has been applied to the Minister in the chair, from the Leader of the House, not to take further calls. He has indicated to her that she is not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226f3c0764005408ab51800dc56ccb389\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8f9660ab1174211bbe54c57be829525\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Members may well laugh, but one of the absolute privileges that members of the House have is to speak in the Chamber, and it is very, very clear, going back hundreds of years in the Westminster system, that it is a breach of privilege to pressure a member not to speak in the Chamber. It is a matter that we have to have clarification on. I want an assurance from the Leader of the House that he made no such comment\u2014although it would be a breach of privilege, I think, if he gave that assurance. I want an assurance that no further pressure will be put on the Minister not to take a call. As you are aware, this concerns the very thing that only yesterday, in parliamentary terms\u2014or 3 days ago, in terms of the outside world\u2014the Speaker went to the Governor-General and sought assurances on: that members\u2019 privileges to speak would not be hampered in the House. Yet now a Minister is doing exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7aeba5ee8a644db9d669de13eb3475f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that. The allegation the member is making is very serious. The matter cannot be dealt with on a point of order; there are other processes to deal with it. It seemed to me that the Minister in the chair, having spoken on several occasions in the debate, did not appear to be particularly constrained. But if the member has evidence to that effect, he should write to the Speaker, taking that up with him as a breach of the privilege of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bfa35a86c1d48bb865538bb57ebebf2\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: The purpose clause in Part 1 states: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is \u2026 to provide when an employment agreement may specify a trial period of 90 days or less, during which an employee can be dismissed and cannot bring a personal grievance or other legal proceedings in respect of the dismissal, subject to certain exceptions;\u201D. We will deal with the exceptions in much more detail when we get to the next part. But the point I want to make is this. The Government has made the point that it wants this legislation to protect vulnerable workers in terms of their ability to get jobs, yet this measure gives no protection to the most vulnerable workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI know that I used an example of an extreme case in my first reading address on this bill, but I think it is a very important example, which the Minister should think about very carefully. When young people are going into their first job, they need considerable support. If their employer does not have to tell them what the expectations are, and can just let them go at any old time in the first 90 days of employment, how is that employee going to be any good in terms of his or her future career prospects, having been treated in such a frivolous, offhand way? The consequences in the case that I mentioned were extreme. They were the worst circumstances, but they were real. That is actually what happened, and the reason the mother came to the select committee was that she felt that young people should not be able to be disciplined by their employer without an adult being with them to support them in those circumstances. She pleaded with the committee regarding the Employment Contracts Bill. I know that Gerry Brownlee thinks there were no hearings on the Employment Contracts Bill, but there were many\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dbe330b48cc4b39922652d4fcdef35a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He wasn\u2019t here then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228712a0bbde9c49b6842042cf6ebd80c4\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: He was not here then. The point is that that woman came to Parliament because she seriously wanted us to think about the consequences of exposing young people to the sorts of individuals who may not have their best interests at heart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI am not someone who thinks that every employer is a bad employer. I worked in the trade union movement for a number of years, and I dealt with very, very good employers. In most instances, employers were good to deal with. But because we represented our union members, we represented the people who had not been sacked as well as the people who had been sacked, and often we had to take that into account, as well. We provided, I think, a good service to the industry as a whole. We took the industry\u2019s needs into account, and we certainly would not let young people be sacked like that, without any sort of support surrounding them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThis bill takes away the most fundamental rights of workers who need the most support from the State. Those people cannot negotiate away their conditions of employment around a 90-day probationary period. It is a joke to say that that is done by agreement. We know that the agreement they are offered is a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D one. The only choice that a lot of the most vulnerable workers will ever get is to \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D. That is the choice they are offered\u2014nothing more, nothing less\u2014and this measure is not good enough for the people that the Minister says she wants to protect under this legislation. It takes away rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EYesterday was international Human Rights Day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022 data-id=\u00223addebcc0b794fd2a17635aa2ea4d51f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223addebcc0b794fd2a17635aa2ea4d51f\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022550f1bc2236a43359bc919836b4eba5d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot put the closure motion twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022 data-id=\u0022908570010a3f499d81be030213624391\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022908570010a3f499d81be030213624391\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022797ba3cf7b844323a8fac20dfeceecf0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, members. I think I have made a mistake. When I was first here the rules were that one could not move a closure motion twice. The Clerk has now advised me that one can. Having said that, I have given Darien Fenton the call and I feel obligated to allow Darien to complete her call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bbdef93362c476b924dfa9b3a0d57eb\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Minister of Labour for her answers, although there were a number of questions she did not answer. [Interruption] Mr Chair, could I speak without that stuff? I have some serious questions I would like to address to the Minister. Her answers before about Part 6A of the principal Act just opened up a whole lot more questions, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EFirst of all, the question about the ability to reduce the size of entities in order to exploit the law is not covered by Part 6A. It is about restructuring, contracting out, and so on. I would still like to know what the Minister intends to do to prevent deliberate avoidance of the requirements of her bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EAnther thing about Part 6A is that it deals with contracting out and a change of employer. I am very, very familiar with this matter. I have worked really, really hard on it with the Labour Party and with my former union. It is a very, very important issue for low-paid, vulnerable workers. What happens when a group of fewer than 20 workers is contracted out? Are they covered by the 90-day provision of this bill? That very, very important question needs to be answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EThe other thing is about the definition of \u201Cemployee\u201D. I did not quite get the Minister\u2019s answer about that. She said that she went with the definition in the Employment Relations Act. I ask the Minister whether I am right. Was that her answer? Well, actually, it does not answer the question I had about how one calculates 20 employees. The Minister is really saying that an employee could be a casual worker working 2 hours a week. An employer could have 20 workers on 1, 2, 3, or 4 hours a week and none of them doing a full-time job. The employer could quite deliberately set up the workplace like that\u2014so that he or she has 20 people instead of four people working full-time. That is another way to avoid the provisions of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EThe other thing that came to my attention when I was looking up the definition of \u201Cemployee\u201D was the definition of \u201Chomeworker\u201D. The Act states that homeworkers are people who work in dwelling houses\u2014who provide a service within dwelling houses. I presume that they will be covered by this 90-day provision. Surely the Minister is not expecting people providing a service to an old lady or to somebody who is receiving accident compensation treatment to be able to make a decision about sacking someone, and to go through the consequences, including going to mediation, including all the protections that the Minister says are there for these workers\u2014whether they have been sacked for discrimination, whether they have been disadvantaged, and so on. Surely the Minister is not expecting somebody in that situation to be able to make a decision. Or is the Minister actually saying that homeworkers, because they are covered by the definition of \u201Cemployee\u201D, are also covered by the provisions of this bill? There are some serious questions there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003EI am genuinely concerned about the situation of people who are contracted out. One of the members opposite talked about contracting out and said that it was a consequence of not having the 90-day probationary period, which I thought was quite ridiculous. Contracting out has been going on for years and years. Part 6A is there specifically to protect workers in that situation. I am deeply concerned that we might be opening up a whole new series of problems, not just for teachers in schools but also for cleaners and caretakers in schools, who are almost always contracted out\u2014the majority of them are contracted out. There are definitely schools that have fewer than 20 workers. What happens when the employer changes, when Spotless Services stops doing the cleaning and some other contractor comes in? Are those workers covered by the 90-day probationary period? It is a serious question, and I would like an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022c60ec88dfd6340d98d98fd8ec376f25f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c60ec88dfd6340d98d98fd8ec376f25f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b1f7a0601c1a4dc683e100ea2bff1e98\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 7; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229d7b5f6496954d39b6c3d51138a9536c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 7; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022 data-id=\u0022809cef05058b45aea4950fcb525d8f61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022809cef05058b45aea4950fcb525d8f61\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I got on to Part 2, I draw members\u2019 attention to Speaker\u2019s ruling 60/6, where Speaker Hunt said that \u201Ca member has the right to speak more than once to a question, [but] there is nothing to stop a member on his or her second or subsequent call from moving the closure motion.\u201D A former leader of the Labour Party, Mr Norman Kirk, exhorted members to read a page a day of the Speakers\u2019 Rulings, and as I have not been in the job 60 days I have not got up to ruling 60/6. I hope members will bear with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc9250117e6545fda978af3d40730f2f\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022995f7b4908174b28aa44c23ac703b1c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022995f7b4908174b28aa44c23ac703b1c3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Given that Part 2 is the substantive part of the bill\u2014we have got past the minor procedural part, and I expect the debate on this part to be proportional\u2014I want to start running through some of the many amendments that Labour members are moving in order to clarify the bill and, in fact, to hold the Minister of Labour to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EWe have canvassed substantially already in the debate on Part 1\u2014and I thank the Chair for his generosity in letting us do that\u2014the question of mediation. We had one explanation from the Minister, but it was not adequate. It is clear that this bill uses the term \u201Cemployee\u201D for someone whose employment has been terminated. Clearly, at the point that people\u2019s employment has been terminated they are no longer employees. The substantive Act, in the mediation section, refers to a person in an \u201Cemployment relationship\u201D. Clearly, an \u201Cemployment relationship\u201D can be a relationship that has broken down\u2014the person is not an employee. The other important point is that that person then has the right to take a case through further stages, whereas someone on one of these trial periods does not have the ability to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EAnother amendment in my name makes it clear that an employer cannot make a trial period provision a condition of employment. Basically, if employers try to say \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D, they will fail. That was the problem with the Employment Contracts Act. Many employers had a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D contract. My amendment makes it clear that an employer cannot make a trial period provision a condition of employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EAnother amendment makes it clear that the notice of termination has to be in writing. There is no requirement under the legislation at the moment to give the notice of termination in writing; it can be given verbally. This amendment makes it clear that it must be written.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EAnother amendment makes it clear that there are some very limited requirements on employers before the personal grievance rights apply. There are a couple of things. The first is that if employers have a problem with employees, they have to give them a note that says so, and they have to give them some time to sort out the problem. If someone is on a trial period, and it is clear that an issue is developing with the quality of that person\u2019s work, or within the employment relationship, the employee is given a note that says so, and is given a few days to sort the issue out. Again, I think that is pretty minor and pretty reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe next one requires that employees whose employment is terminated under the probationary period provisions are informed in writing of the reasons for that termination. That, again, is something that is fair. Assuming that the employees could go to mediation\u2014and our argument is that, at the moment, under this bill they cannot\u2014it gives them something to consider when deciding whether they should do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EAnother of the amendments, which my colleague Chris Carter will speak to fairly extensively later, might be referred to as the \u201CAnne Tolley amendment\u201D. It is the one that makes it clear that people working within schools will be exempted from the probationary period provisions. I want to say, as a former Minister of Education, that I think about a third of schools have 20 or fewer employees, and they are most often the schools that struggle to find teachers. They are often in remote areas, they are often smaller schools, and they are more likely to have boards of trustees that are involved in what might be described as parish issues or local dissent. Sometimes generations of dissent can be played out within the board of trustees. People sometimes can have a down on teachers. I think there will be a very real recruitment problem. There is already a recruitment problem in many of our smaller schools, but this bill will add to the problems and it will drive down the quality of education within those schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe effect of the amendment is to make sure that what Anne Tolley has committed to is incorporated\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa3421ca3de84c1e939fd3a3bdea45d9\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Promised, at least twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e35f571291c43da91c7fba12da842f5\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Promise, commitment\u2014she made it clear that people within schools would not be affected by this legislation; that there would be an exemption. We are trying to make sure that her promises are kept.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe next amendment proposed is to ensure that the probation period applies to a position rather than a particular individual. This means that the trial period must be fully disclosed in the provision description and in the material given to applicants seeking the position. It also means that it cannot subsequently be added in. It also cannot be added into the employment description later in the process, or into any subsequent employment agreement. This amendment makes the situation very, very clear to people deciding whether they should apply for a position, because it makes clear the intent of the employer\u2014the employer\u2019s choice, I think it is fair to say\u2014on this matter right from the beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI think it is fair to say that we have reasonable expectations of a reasonable Minister saying \u201CYes, that\u2019s what I promised.\u201D All of those amendments are what the Minister promised and what she committed to, and it is our expectation that she will look carefully at them and that there will be reasoned discussion. I say to the Minister that if she thinks that we have not quite got those amendments right, if she thinks that they could be improved in the drafting, that Mr Iles or his successors in these matters could give us a hand in order to make sure that this bill works better\u2014that her intent and our intent are better reflected\u2014then I am quite willing to have a discussion and to have amendments made to my amendments. In fact, I would be happy for the Government to take over the amendments. It is not a matter of my getting credit for improving the bill; it is a matter of making sure that the bill is improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThere is an amendment that I think is relatively unlikely to be picked up by the Government, but it is worth a crack anyway. The amendment is to change the wording in the heading of new section 67A, inserted by clause 7, from \u201C90 days\u201D to \u201C1 day\u201D, and, within section 67A(2)(a), to delete the specified period of \u201C90 days\u201D and to substitute \u201C1 day\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThat is the first set of amendments to this bill. The proposal we have is that, as an Opposition, between now and about lunchtime tomorrow we will work our way through this set of amendments, and then we will work through the second set, which are focused on the latter part of Part 2. But I reiterate to the Minister through you, Mr Chair, that this part is the operative part of the bill. I think that is something that Mr Mapp accepts. This is the guts of the legislation. This is the only opportunity, given the lack of select committee consideration, for careful examination of the bill. It is the intention of Her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition to be very, very thorough as we work through it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EHaving said all of that, again I want to make it clear that even if the Government accepts every single one of these amendments, including the one that switches the trial period from 90 days to 1 day, the Opposition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0306085765b4068bee9aa470ef23e2f\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdc3ae729c3e4dd8be8fa3eddd08af35\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The member does not think it is likely? Even if the Government accepts every single one of the amendments, this legislation is wrong in principle and it is wrong in process, and the Opposition will continue to vote against it, right through all further stages. I want to make it clear that it is my understanding that, so far, 27 members of the Opposition would like to speak on this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb1e68dc4b5645a9adac8195a8466ce1\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: At least\u2014at least.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfbbc1740d924b7e9437474844c2a3e0\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am not saying they will speak only once\u2014not 27 speeches, but 27 separate members who would like to take a call on this bill. And by the time that we have finished with this part, three more Labour members will have made their maiden speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7179207e0404b0797fffaddc8ef7027\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7179207e0404b0797fffaddc8ef7027\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E This is the major part of the bill. This is a bill that of course, quite unusually, will not be going to a select committee. It is almost unheard of that a bill that would deprive people of fundamental rights would not go to a select committee. I therefore expect that the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, will this time answer the questions that were put to her repeatedly in Part 1, but that she failed to answer. If she does not answer them, it means effectively that the Government accepts no accountability for what it is ramming through the House, maybe by midnight tonight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca005301d9f747e29d0991d70fba6a4f\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014midnight tomorrow night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f17b288f432447c8225b61643007929\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or maybe tomorrow night, if the Chair is fair and gives everybody on this side who wants to speak the chance. I am sure the Chair is fair, Mr Chairman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe first question I want to put to the Minister is whether she sustains her argument that this bill benefits employees, and does not in any way detract from their rights when we see in the new section 67A that an employee is precluded from taking a personal grievance or bringing legal proceedings in respect of a dismissal. I ask the Minister whether this means that a person who may have been dismissed absolutely unfairly, without justice, without any due cause, therefore has no effective redress for that dismissal. Is that, effectively, what the bill does? If so, how does she justify that in light of the fact that one of the most important things for any individual is his or her job, and the ability to make a living? That is why we have employment relations legislation, because the general principle is that nobody should be deprived of his or job, other than for good cause and through following due process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EIs the Minister saying that in the first 3 months of an employee\u2019s employment, he or she is to be denied that right? Is the Minister telling everyday New Zealanders that they can be sacked without good cause, and they have no come-back? Is this really what the bill is about? If this is what the bill is about, I ask the Minister how she can go around this House saying that this bill does not deny people of their rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ESecondly, I ask the Minister whether she agrees with the Human Rights Commission that rushed legislation is potentially risky legislation, and to answer the question of whether this legislation is rushed. If her answer is no, I ask the Minister to explain to me why, when the regulatory impact analysis team was asked to undertake an assessment of the adequacy of this legislation, they said they could not do so because of the time frame. Can we assume from that, that this is indeed rushed legislation? Can we assume that from the fact that this legislation was not mentioned in the Speech from the Throne, and that this legislation was explicitly ruled out as being within the 100-day programme of the Government? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EIf this legislation was not foreshadowed in this way\u2014it was done at the last moment, it was rushed, and members did not see this legislation, until 15 minutes to midnight, last night\u2014does the Minister therefore accept that the Human Rights Commission does have a very valid point that this legislation should go to a select committee for scrutiny? If the Minister\u2019s argument is that there has been a bill already that looks like this, a bill that went to a select committee last year, can she explain that there is no difference, then, between a Government bill and a member\u2019s bill that nobody expected to pass, and, indeed, did not pass, and was opposed by 80 percent of those making submissions, and that, therefore, the stakeholders who have a vital interest in this legislation should be given the right to have a say on it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EFor example, should not the Human Rights Commission, which has expressed concern that this legislation would impact negatively on school leavers seeking their first job, would have a negative impact on other vulnerable and disadvantaged groups wanting and needing employment, have the right to make a submission? The Human Rights Commission is a serious agency in this country. It says that it believes that it should have the right to have its voice heard on this legislation. Why is the Minister, therefore, denying that body the right to make submissions? If the answer is that this legislation is so important that we need it as soon as possible, given the fact that it does not come into effect until 1 April 2009 what is the Government losing by putting this to a select committee, and still getting it through within the same time frame? Is the Minister not putting it to a select committee because the Government understands that its arguments in favour of this legislation are utterly unsustainable? Is that the real reason this legislation is not going to a select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E I think it is only fair that serious questions asked genuinely be addressed by the Minister. Eight questions were put by me to the Minister on Part 1. Some of those questions have been repeated. The Minister might not be able to answer adequately, because, frankly, we would not expect there to be legitimate answers to those questions, but she should, when she has to answer questions in the House, at least make an attempt to answer those questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House our argument is that this clause denies fundamental rights to everyday New Zealand workers in their first 3 months of employment. I ask whether the Minister is really serious in saying that the potential employee has to agree to it first. Is the Minister telling the House that the bargaining power of the single individual employee desperate for a job will be the equal of the employer who says: \u201CIf you want this job you sign this agreement.\u201D Is the Minister seriously telling the House that that is what she believes, or will she own up to the House that there is no equity in the bargaining position between a single person desperately seeking employment\u2014and one suspects that under this Government unemployment will get much worse\u2014and the employer who can pick and choose? I think that that is a red herring; that is no safeguard. The Minister raises the question that the safeguard exists, that a person does not forgo these rights if he or she works in a company that employs more than 20 people. But the Minister would have to admit that 97 percent of New Zealand businesses employ fewer than 20 people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI ask why it is good enough for a person in a big firm to have the protection, but not good enough for the majority of workers in this country who work for small firms. Will the Minister acknowledge that none of the safeguards she says exist to protect workers\u2019 rights have any substance at all? This Opposition is utterly opposed to people losing the fundamental right to have redress if they are treated unfairly. This Opposition is utterly opposed to the arrogance of a Government that for no good cause pushes this bill through under urgency without the scrutiny of a select committee, and without New Zealanders having their normal democratic right to comment on something that will adversely affect them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022 data-id=\u002201d1d7f41b9c478dbe144f663dd06da7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201d1d7f41b9c478dbe144f663dd06da7\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I have in front of me the National Party policy on employment and workplace relations. I remind the Committee of what the Government said it would do before the election, because I think the public have been led to believe in the debate tonight that the National Party made it perfectly plain what it was intending to do. Of course, this measure is not on the 100-day post-election action plan. It is not mentioned on there at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EBut let me look at the employment and workplace relations policy document. It says \u201CNational believes employment law should treat all parties fairly. It should: \u2026 Protect employees and employers. \u2026 Expand job opportunities for those having difficulty getting work\u2014like young, inexperienced people or new immigrants. \u2026 Increase flexibility. \u2026 Let businesses grow.\u201D The policy goes on to talk about the \u201C90-day trial period for new employees by agreement between the employer and the employee, for businesses with fewer than 20 staff. During the trial period, either party may terminate the employment relationship for performance, without a personal grievance claim being brought.\u201D That was what the Government said it would do before the election. But let me read the next line of National\u2019s policy under that heading. It says \u201CGood-faith provisions will still apply\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003ELet us look at the good-faith provisions of the Employment Relations Act. Section 4 of the Act states: \u201C(1) The parties to an employment relationship \u2026 must deal with each other in good faith; and \u2026 must not, whether directly or indirectly, do anything\u2014(i) to mislead or deceive each other; or (ii) that is likely to mislead or deceive each other. (1A) The duty of good faith \u2026 (a) is wider in scope than the implied mutual obligations of trust and confidence; and (b) requires the parties\u201D\u2014and I think this is the issue that the Minister should respond to\u2014\u201Cto an employment relationship to be active and constructive in establishing and maintaining a productive employment relationship in which parties are, among other things, responsive and communicative;\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EHow on earth can taking away an employer\u2019s obligation to have a reason for sacking somebody, and to actually talk to an employee about expectations and explain to the employee what the employee needs to do to lift his or her performance, as a normal probationary period would allow under the existing legislation, be maintaining good-faith provisions? \u201CGood-faith provisions will still apply\u201D; that is what the National Party\u2019s policy said before the election. So why is National now deciding that there should be no good faith in the first 90 days of employment? It is when the employment relationship is established that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a57e7ab6bc24bed96de0d75a90287a3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Is he alive or is he dead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcab0fa8dc944670b513b18de7ad0bf2\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well somebody should wake that member up, for goodness\u2019 sake! That is a bit embarrassing, but let us not mind that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe point I would make is this: the good-faith provisions actually require the parties to have a responsive and communicative relationship. If we are seriously talking about having a quality employment relationship, then establishing expectations right from the outset is what matters the most. All that this legislation does is to encourage people not to talk to each other about what really matters to them, because employees will say what they believe employers want to hear in order to get a job. They will have to agree to the 90-day period going in, and we all know that that will be a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D option; it will not be anything more than that. And the bottom line is that National\u2019s policy is given lie to by the bill that we have in front of the Committee tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EIn addition, under the good-faith provisions of the Act, in section 4(1A)(c), \u201Can employer who is proposing to make a decision that will, or is likely to, have an adverse effect on the continuation of employment of 1 or more of his or her employees\u201D has to give those employees \u201C(i) access to information, relevant to the continuation of the employees\u2019 employment,\u201D. Employers do not have to do that under the 90-day bill. So I ask, why did National, in its policy, state: \u201CGood-faith provisions will still apply\u201D, when those members knew perfectly well that they were bringing in a 90-day period where no good faith applies at all? It is quite clear that National, by including that provision in its policy document, was not being up front with the electorate, and that is a very good reason why this bill should go to a select committee. The public of New Zealand were told that yes, the National Party would bring in a 90-day provision, but that it would also retain good-faith obligations during that period. But no, there are no good-faith obligations during that period, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI want the Minister, who, as I understand it, was responsible for the release of that policy, to stand up and explain not only to the Committee but also to the people of New Zealand why National\u2019s policy stated that good-faith provisions would still apply when, in fact, they do not apply in the 90-day period when somebody is just starting work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want the Minister to respond to is the question that I raised in Part 1, and to also respond to the question that I raised in the first reading of this bill\u2014that is, if this bill is designed to get vulnerable workers into employment, then what happens when it turns pear-shaped? What happens when an employer walks into an after-match function and sacks an 18-year-old for flicking a bit of ash on the floor\u2014not that he or she would be able to smoke inside these days? But the point I am making is to ask why it is acceptable to allow that sort of thing to happen, and then to allow that worker no rights\u2014none; not one right, at all. I cannot understand why the Minister believes it is important to argue a point that is so demonstrably wrong in those particular circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EIt is the case that young workers who are entering their first job need to be well supported in that job, in order to have the confidence to take up that particular career and continue in it in future. I believe that the Minister is quite mistaken in saying this legislation will expand job opportunities for those people who have difficulty in getting work\u2014people like young, inexperienced people or new immigrants. In fact, those two groups of people will be the most disadvantaged by this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EAnother question that I want the Minister to respond to is one about immigration visas. Of course, an immigration visa may apply in the context of a work permit for a specific employer. If the employee has to agree to a 90-day provision in order to get the job and is then sacked, then the visa no longer applies and that person has no right to work in this country at all. That is a serious problem, which I think the Minister of Labour should respond to, as well. As she is also the Associate Minister of Immigration she will, of course, have the answer at her fingertips, but I say a specific work permit that applies to an individual employer cannot be transferred to another employer. That is the case unless it is an open work permit, in which case the employee could move to another employer. But if the employee is on an employer-specific work permit that is relevant to one employer only, then as soon as that person\u2019s job is over, so too is his or her right to work\u2014gone. I think that is a very serious issue, which the Minister should stand up and respond to. We could have dealt with that issue at a select committee hearing\u2014but, of course, we are being denied the opportunity to give this bill the degree of scrutiny that it ought to have\u2014because issues like that are important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s policy states that this measure is about helping young people and new immigrants, and there is a very real question about the situation facing a new immigrant who is working under a work permit that is specific to a single employer and is not able to move on to another employer, but who is forced to sign up to the 90-day agreement in order to get the job in the first place. If people think that not all migrants are in the position where they are vulnerable like that, I tell them to think again, because I know that many migrants will sign up to any conditions of employment just to get their foot in the door. It is the same case for young people, who will agree to provisions that are not in their best interests because they have no other choice. I think the Government is prepared to say a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D approach is OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022 data-id=\u0022096b6a19c7a1484db972c278429bb489\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022096b6a19c7a1484db972c278429bb489\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E As mentioned earlier in the debate today, I have tabled an amendment tonight to Part 2, introducing two new clauses\u2014clauses 7A and 7B. These clauses are aimed at ensuring that people who are fired from their job under the provisions of this legislation cannot be subjected to the 13-week stand-down period that is provided for under section 60H of the Social Security Act 1964. The Minister has continued to assure me in the House that it is not, in fact, the Government\u2019s intention to have this double jeopardy happening to people who are dismissed under the 90-day rule, but I am not convinced completely by what she has said so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EI will summarise again the reasons why the Greens believe that the amendment we have on the Table tonight is necessary. At the moment Work and Income has the power to impose a 13-week stand-down on anyone who has been fired from his or her job for misconduct. However, there is some protection for sacked workers at the moment, because if a person takes a case to the Employment Relations Authority or the Employment Court, a benefit can be paid until or unless the authority or the court finds against the worker in terms of stating that the misconduct allegations are proved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EIf the misconduct allegations are not proved, the worker keeps the benefit; if they are proved, the benefit has to be paid back, and that is fair enough. Once the Employment Relations Amendment Bill comes into effect, this back-up protection will no longer exist, as sacked workers in enterprises with under 20 employees will have no recourse to the authority or the court during their first 90 days on the job. Therefore, if workers are let go for misconduct, how are they to find any justice when they report to Work and Income? Will the case manager, as part of his or job, then have to investigate and judge the facts of that particular employment case or grievance\u2014whatever we call it\u2014in the way the Employment Relations Authority would have done up until now? I do not think case officers working for the Ministry of Social Development are likely to have the training, time, or competence to carry out the sorts of functions that the Employment Relations Authority currently does. I believe that in fact they are far more likely to simply take the word of the employer, accept the allegation of misconduct, and deprive the applicant of any right to an unemployment benefit for the next 13 weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThis adds a double jeopardy to this bill, making it even more ill-considered and unjust for some workers than I believe the Minister of Labour originally intended. On top of this, as far as I can ascertain, the existing clauses of the bill we are considering tonight do not give an employee any right to be told why he or she is being dismissed. This will increase the problem for people applying for the unemployment benefit in these circumstances, some of whom may well end up with no clear information whatsoever to give Work and Income when they are asked why they have lost their job. In the absence of any clarity or proof, I feel that Work and Income case officers may, at least sometimes, apply stand-downs based on confused or no information. This is because case officers at times\u2014not universally, but at times\u2014act in quite a prejudiced way towards beneficiaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EWelfare law is itself a nightmare of confusion. The consequence of this bill becoming law in its current form will be to add yet another layer to that confusion that the poor Work and Income staff have to deal with. Experience tells me that it is usually the beneficiary who misses out if there is any doubt at all in the granting or declining of benefits. This amendment from the Green Party is an attempt to address one part of the imbalance that is being created by a bill that strips new workers of their rights to contest unfair dismissal. I invite all parties in this House who believe that all workers deserve the right not to suffer twice over as a result of the implementation of this legislation, to vote for the Green Party amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022 data-id=\u00226c235d83498f4667bbdce4648b67f017\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c235d83498f4667bbdce4648b67f017\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In rising to debate Part 2 of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, I must say that it feels like being in a bit of a time warp, because the last time a new National Government came into power, one of the very first things it did was to strip away workers\u2019 rights, and it is happening again. Last time, the National Government did it with the Employment Contracts Act, but even then its members stopped and paused to listen to what the public had to say. Even back in the bad old days of the Employment Contracts Act, at least there was a select committee process. This time, workers\u2019 rights are being stripped away without any recourse for the public to say what they think about it. It is just like being in a time warp, and Part 2 is the mechanics of how exactly workers\u2019 rights are being stripped away once again by an incoming National Government in its first 100 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EDid National members ever warn us that it was going to happen in the first 100 days? No, we did not learn that, it was not on the list that was published before the election when John Key said\u2014and I will just double-check, and I may table this copy of the 100-day action plan later because it is definitely not on the list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EI start with clause 6 because this actually amends the current provision for probationary periods. That is right, ladies and gentlemen. In the current Act of Parliament there is already a provision for probationary periods. That is why clause 6 in Part 2 of this bill amends the probationary period that is already in the Employment Relations Act. The bill amends it by taking the words \u201Cor trial\u201D out of it. Suddenly it is not a trial, it is just a probationary period. I ask how that changes anything. I would like the Minister to tell us exactly how taking the phrase \u201Cor trial\u201D out of the current Act actually changes things. I suspect that this is a further stripping away of workers\u2019 rights, but I do not understand what the implications are. I would like the Minister to answer that question addressing clause 6 in Part 2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EI move on to clause 7, because this is where it really starts to get down and dirty. This is where workers\u2019 rights are actually stripped away, and I can understand this part. First of all, it talks about the trial period being for 90 days or less. I wonder whether it is any coincidence that the Employment Relations Act also has another time frame in it that fits inside of this. It is the ability for workers to decide to join a union and thereby stay on the collective agreement within the first 30 days of their employment. I think this is an important time frame to think about, because when employees are first employed, under the Employment Relations Act they automatically go on to a collective employment agreement if one exists in their workplace. If they want to stay on that collective employment agreement they must join the union within the first 30 days of their employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EPerhaps I am being a little suspicious, but it seems to me that the reason 90 days is the probationary period is that it fits outside of the 30-day period, so that employers can use this bill to discriminate against workers who decide to join a union. We will never know the answer to that, I say to the Minister, because under this bill employers do not have to give a reason at all. They just have to say: \u201CSorry, don\u2019t turn up tomorrow. Don\u2019t come Monday\u2014DCM.\u201D That is what this bill should be called, the \u201CDon\u2019t Come Monday Bill\u201D, because in fact that is all that employers have to tell them\u2014to not turn up to work again. They do not have to give workers a reason, they do not have to say: \u201CIt\u2019s not because you weren\u2019t performing properly; it\u2019s because you joined the union, and I didn\u2019t like that.\u201D There are a whole range of reasons that employers will be able to use to discriminate against employees, and those are just some of them, off the top of my head. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThe other thing covered by this part of the bill is mediation. I know that the Minister has made some deal about mediation being put into this bill. Those of us who have been practitioners in this area know a little bit about mediation, and we know why mediation works. It does work. It is extremely effective. Mediation is effective because all of the parties to mediation know that there is another part of the process, that if they do not commit to coming out with a good-faith process of mediation, there is potentially a personal grievance procedure they can go on to, and other remedies that can be sought under the Employment Relations Authority. That is why mediation can be very effective in sorting out these issues, because both parties know that if they cannot sort it out at mediation, there are other legal remedies and further steps where those things can be resolved\u2014but not under this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThis is the really important part, because this, in my humble view, is where the rights of workers get completely stripped away, in the first 90 days if they work for an employer with 20 or fewer employees. It is in clause 7, which inserts new section 67B in the current Act. I will read out new section 67B(3) for anyone who is listening to this debate and who may be in any doubt whatsoever that the rights of workers are being stripped away by this bill, and I ask them to contemplate subsection (3) of new section 67B. This is the actual wording: \u201CNeither this section nor a trial provision prevents any employee from bringing a personal grievance or legal proceedings on any of the grounds specified in section 103(1)(b) to (g).\u201D What it does tell us is that employees employed in a small workplace will, in the first 90 days of employment, lose the right that every other worker in this country has to bring a personal grievance or to go to the Employment Relations Authority. That is what they actually lose, and that is taking workers\u2019 rights away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EI think the timing of bringing this in\u2014[Interruption] ACT Party members might find that very, very funny. They may actually think that the situation of workers at their most vulnerable time is funny\u2014the first 90 days of their employment when they are trying to learn the culture of the workplace, understand their job, and come to grips with all the health and safety provisions and all the regimes that happen in those first 90 days. They may think that it is incredibly funny that they will not have their full rights in place, but that period is the very time when people do need to have their full rights in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EI particularly want to argue the case for young workers and those experiencing their very first job. Of course, I want no one to be fooled into thinking that this bill applies only to people experiencing their very first job, because it does not. It affects anyone who changes job and it applies for the first 90 days of that employment where his or her employer has 20 or fewer workers. But it is young workers, primarily, for whom this will be the most difficult. As a parent of young children, I do not want my children to be exposed to this, because I know that when they are very, very nervous and new to the workplace they will want the opportunity that every other worker has, which is to have properly explained to them what they may be doing wrong, and let them understand what the culture of the workplace is; this bill actually stops those conversations from taking place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThe other point I would like to mention quickly\u2014because I think it does need serious consideration by the Committee\u2014is the very good proposed amendment that has been put forward in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to ensure that teachers be exempted from the probationary period provisions. I know that members of the Government have argued that they are not employees in places of 20 or fewer employees, but that is not the view of the New Zealand Educational Institute. The institute, which actually negotiates the employment agreement for teachers, says that they will have this bill applied to them. I want to ensure that the Employment Relations Amendment Bill does contain this very, very good amendment that has been put forward in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard, to insert new section 67C, \u201CTeachers to be exempted from probationary period provisions\u201D. I would also like the Committee to consider other groups of workers that may need that protection as well. I had not thought previously of teachers as being particularly vulnerable groups, but clearly they are. It has been in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eee6752c4be34069b3aee7b8f8f67e3c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Anne Tolley said they were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229b289ca2c8b4221ac8145762e548cb6\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps they will be, under a National Government. Perhaps that is what she meant. Perhaps Anne Tolley was making a prediction that teachers will become vulnerable under a National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022 data-id=\u00224fda02d819b74d1d9c426c4eb3b919fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fda02d819b74d1d9c426c4eb3b919fe\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I rise firstly to ask the Minister in the chair, Kate Wilkinson, why she would not support my colleague Trevor Mallard\u2019s amendment that exempts teachers from the probationary period and inserts a new section 67C in clause 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EAs many members of this Committee will know, until a month or so ago I was privileged to be New Zealand\u2019s Minister of Education. During the election campaign I also was privileged to be Labour\u2019s education spokesperson, and I occasionally had the opportunity to debate with Mrs Tolley, National\u2019s new Minister of Education. Sadly, she would never appear on television or on Radio New Zealand National with me. I am not sure why. Perhaps she was a little bit nervous about it. But she did come to the occasional New Zealand Educational Institute meeting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EOne of the meetings was held in Rotorua, where I was ably represented by my colleague Steve Chadwick. We saw on the Television One programme Tonight the hapless Mrs Tolley saying at that Rotorua meeting that teachers would be exempt from the 90-day trial period. I understand that Mrs Tolley came into the Chamber earlier this evening and denied saying what all of New Zealand had seen her say on the Television One programme Tonight. I can also say unequivocally that when Mrs Tolley and I attended a New Zealand Educational Institute meeting in the Epsom electorate, she said when asked a question about support staff in schools\u2014not teachers; the people who do invaluable work supporting students and teachers in their quality teaching and learning\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224232bab734da4957824ecf66ff8e5104\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I wonder whether you would consider whether the contribution from the member addresses Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dd25c4967ad4377a5bfb1c4326f7fe1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chairperson, an amendment that certainly has not been ruled out by you or by anyone else in the Chair goes to the very question of whether teachers should be covered. It is known on this side of the Chamber as the \u201CTolley amendment\u201D, because it attempts to ensure that she is not made a liar by her colleagues on the other side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab93a1844c47471b9614d9d338666ea0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: At this point, the member who has the call has not contravened any of the institutional expectations of Parliament. The member who just spoke to the point of order did, I believe, in a roundabout way\u2014[Interruption] I am ruling on this. You can shake your head, but we are not going to get into any usage of words that are not accepted in this Chamber. I am not going to rule out the direction the member is going in, as long as he ties it to the amendments that he mentioned. But he should be very cautious of what words he might use in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220324125dd0924450ab086e5b9f0b09dc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I am just reinforcing the rationale behind why I believe the Minister should support Mr Mallard\u2019s amendments. I will continue. Mr Brownlee may have intervened to protect Mrs Tolley\u2019s reputation. He should save that for question time, where I will look forward to questioning and exploring this issue further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI can say unequivocally that when I was present at a New Zealand Educational Institute meeting in the Epsom electorate, Mrs Tolley, in response to a question on whether support staff would be included in the 90-day period, said they would not. Today as we look at this legislation we can see that they, and teachers, and other staff working at schools are included. We were told by the National Party during the election that it was time for a change. Well, this is not a change that the education sector was expecting. In fact, it is a change that the sector was told by Mrs Tolley would not happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EEarlier tonight, while working in my room but listening to the debate\u2014as I am sure all members throughout this building are doing\u2014I heard John Hayes, the National MP for the Wairarapa area, say that this trial period could not possibly apply to teachers because teachers are employed by the Ministry of Education. That is the level of ignorance of, in his case, a quite experienced and senior National Party MP! I have to say to him that teachers are employed by boards of trustees. Boards of trustees will now have the right to sack a teacher in the first 90 days of his or her employment. That is not something that schoolteachers were expecting, thanks to Mrs Tolley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EIndeed, my colleague Sue Moroney read out earlier this evening\u2014and in a few minutes I might reinforce what she was talking about\u2014the release put out by the New Zealand Educational Institute expressing its deep concerns about its inability to discuss this legislation. All New Zealanders who are listening to the debate or who have any interest in what is happening in their Parliament are seeing this legislation being rammed through Parliament with no chance for teachers, workers, employers, or anybody else who has an interest in the legislation to have an input. I have to say that every New Zealander should be passionately interested in this legislation, because it will touch the lives, ultimately, of every one of them. Nobody in our country has the chance to have an input into it, least of all teachers, who when this legislation is passed will be trapped into having a period of insecurity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EMy colleague Mr Mallard, who, like me, was privileged at one time to be a Labour Minister of Education, talked about the impact of this legislation on our schools and early childhood centres. We have about 2,600 schools in this country, of which about 30 percent\u2014about 800\u2014have fewer than 20 employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022 data-id=\u00225bbc1434612a409b8b60b1090f5847bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bbc1434612a409b8b60b1090f5847bb\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022 data-id=\u002272d8079d4f3f476da929e32e039914a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272d8079d4f3f476da929e32e039914a9\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to associate myself with the comments made by all my colleagues on this side of the Chamber in the debate thus far. I do not think this legislation is in any way good. I do, however, want to constrain my own remarks to some things that are a little bit technical, and I would like to engage the assistance of the Minister in the chair, Kate Wilkinson, if I could. I have previously given the Minister an indication that I want to raise these matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EThey come to the issue of what happens where the employer changes in the course of the 90-day trial period. What happens if the employer changes in the course of the 90 days? There are several threads to it. The first thread is covered somewhat by the legislation. The Minister would probably point out to me that new section 67A(4), in clause 7, states: \u201C \u2018Employer\u2019 means an employer who, at the beginning of the day on which the employment agreement is entered into,\u201D, and, in a sense, begins to cover the issues that I would raise. Further, if one goes to Part 6A of the principal Act, as I am sure the Minister has done, one sees that it is about contracting out, contracting on beyond that, flexible working provisions, continuity of employment, and so on. I have recently refamiliarised myself with that part of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EBut I note that section 69J, if the Minister would be good enough to turn to it, states: \u201C(1) The employment of an employee who elects to transfer to a new employee where that employment is to be treated as continuous,\u201D. Subsection (1) is a grab-all and it says that everything is held safe\u2014including the ticking of the 90-day clock, one assumes. But in subsection (2) there is a series of avoidances of doubt. One of them is all to do with holidays. One of them\u2014by now we are up to section 69J(2)(b)\u2014is all to do with Parental Leave and Employment Protection Act 1987 stuff. I wonder whether any harm would be done by adding a subsection that saved the provisions of this bill; that made it explicit beyond any doubt that new sections 67A and 67B were saved in section 69J of the principal Act. I hope that I am making some sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238bf8cd13965437b89f730aa86b04433\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: You are to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022796a5b4be9654b75b35be290d988fdc1\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we must avoid the possibility, and I am sure the Minister would want to avoid the possibility, of the clock starting to tick in any unforeseen circumstances. Notwithstanding the wording of clause 4, I wonder whether the Minister would contemplate adding a saving clause to section 69J.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EThat leads me to another point. I think it is covered but I am not sure. In the course of the 90 days the employer might change in a variety of ways. The partnership might change, the business might be put up for sale lock, stock, and barrel, there might be changes in the shareholding that are substantial enough to create what might be called a new business, or the business might be split in a manner in which the resulting businesses, or one of them, has fewer than 20 employees. I am not an expert on the Employment Relations Act. I held the portfolio some long time ago. My understanding is that the architecture of the Employment Relations Act is such that it is not size-specific. The size of the company is not a feature of any of the sections or parts of the Employment Relations Act. Therefore, when the original Act was being put together no consideration had to be given to what would happen if a company became a smaller company, a larger company, or whatever. The people who were drawing up the legislation did not have to consider that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003EMy proposition is that this bill, for the first time, creates a size difference: employers who employ more than 20, and employers who employ fewer. Mr Chair, I will sit down in just 30 seconds\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022469ccbe090894e16b942e8e84141ae51\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: No, don\u2019t!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260b5abc8079e48c7a990d1e18df01677\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the Minister wants to take the floor. I think that because this is the first time that the size of a business has been added to the legislation, we ought to be very careful that there are no unintended consequences. I for one am not sure that we have got that covered. I wonder whether the Minister would be prepared to offer her remarks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022 data-id=\u00221f6af3255355446e8ec74c27378c03b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f6af3255355446e8ec74c27378c03b9\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Just to answer the member Pete Hodgson\u2019s question\u2014and I thank him for his question\u2014if one looks at new section 67A(4) in clause 7, one sees that it triggers the employment relationship. It states: \u201C \u2018Employer\u2019 means an employer who, at the beginning of the day on which the employment agreement is entered into, employs fewer than 20 employees.\u201D That is the triggering date. In relation to Part 6A of the principal Act, because a transferring employee, if one likes, must transfer on the same terms and conditions, it would not be possible for the new employer to impose or ask for a new condition\u2014namely, a trial period. I trust that that answers or addresses some of the Minister\u2019s queries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022 data-id=\u0022c32060d985dc422da0de643caac97813\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c32060d985dc422da0de643caac97813\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am sorry to disturb the Committee\u2019s progress, but I just want to ask whether the advice of the Minister will be read into Hansard. I cannot remember whether the proceedings of the Committee of the whole House under urgency are recorded in Hansard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228468f7be49054448ac0db651ed89fd13\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208e2cbb8ee604cc4896a89870032efdc\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2e20e2f975b494ea882d4748794def0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2e20e2f975b494ea882d4748794def0\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022 data-id=\u00229a3cd3b4583d4beea599559680cc8d5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a3cd3b4583d4beea599559680cc8d5a\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E We can be thankful that Minister Tolley has gone public in suggesting that teachers will be not involved in this legislation. It certainly shows, like the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s move to vote against this legislation, that people are making a strong effort to do the right thing. I suggest to the Minister that her starting to adjust this heavy-handed legislation is one of the most outstanding things that she will do in her career.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EWhat is certainly interesting is the issue of doubt, in that it is one-sided, and that side is the employer\u2019s. The two provisions are section 67A(2)(b) and (c), in clause 7. Paragraph (b) states: \u201Cduring that period the employer may dismiss the employee;\u201D\u2019. I am not too sure about the talk about adjusting by amendment, or by one of our amendments, in relation to this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EThe removal of personal grievance rights and any legal proceedings within the 90 day trial period is quite staggering\u2014quite staggering. Thousands of young New Zealanders this week\u2014today and tomorrow, I think\u2014are on the cusp of getting on the highway of employment. It is fascinating that Minister Tolley has focused on teachers. I have heard our very learned past Minister of Education, Chris Carter, suggest that he does not think that what she said is true. I think somebody should put a lot of effort right now into talking to a whole lot of the students who are about to go into employment. Somebody needs immediately to spend a lot of time telling them that if they are about to be employed by an employer with 20 or fewer employees, they had better understand that for the first 3 months they cannot be sure, and neither can their employer be sure, that they have job security for the future. It is a new addition to the career choices of a lot of our students. That is the nonsensicalness of this adjustment. One does not have to be a rocket scientist to understand that it is an attack on the collective, and, certainly, tries to disengage people from their right to union support and to the support of anybody else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EWe have heard continually today that organisations, including Business New Zealand, do not think this bill is a good idea. What I have struggled with in listening to the discussions tonight is the idea that it is to the benefit of employees in that it will mean that more employees are taken on. In the sense of the current recessionary tensions, how can that be so? I look across at Mr Lindsay Tisch and think about when he and I dared to work together on things like Be Your Own Boss\u2014\u201CBe Your Own Future\u201D, be whatever. Lindsay would charge around in his car, advising people in communities how not to get put out of work. We created things like Company Rebuilders, for businesses that had started to collapse. That was a lesser situation compared with the recessionary impact of global activity at this period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003ENew section 67A(2)(c) states: \u201Cif the employer does so, the employee is not entitled to bring personal grievance or other legal proceedings in respect of the dismissal.\u201D That is incredible, given this country\u2019s history. That is just outrageous. Simon Power would not agree with it. It is more than stripping away people\u2019s rights; it is an addendum and an addition to all those things that National, including Simon Power, voted against. What did National vote against? There has been a lot of waffle about mana enhancement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022817c0a2748b34b5fbb6e2955d700b2bc\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: There is a lot of waffle right now!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f407157b0a0544f6853d1ab741c61d8f\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Hayes that there has been a lot of waffle in relation to the enhancement of employers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022 data-id=\u002279e8925b7d79433ca7afcd4d8e03de33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279e8925b7d79433ca7afcd4d8e03de33\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u0022fedc7fdd36fc44bd8fb9d8bb772ba810\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fedc7fdd36fc44bd8fb9d8bb772ba810\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I want to raise two points. The Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, is bereft of any ability to answer questions, for some reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EMy colleague Lianne Dalziel, who is a former Minister of Immigration, as I am, raised a very important point as to what the immigration status would be of migrants on an employer-specific work permit who are sacked and have no right to work. The Minister of Labour is also the Associate Minister of Immigration. She has very learned officials\u2014I know that because they worked with my colleague and me\u2014sitting around her. They are very professional, learned legal officials. If she does not know the answer, she has the ability to turn to her right and ask them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis issue will affect many thousands of migrants in New Zealand, and it will determine the choices and decisions of migrants who are thinking of coming to New Zealand. A genius on the other side of the Chamber earlier in the day rubbished the point made by one of my colleagues\u2014I think it was Lianne Dalziel\u2014that there are migrants for whom this bill will determine their decision whether to come to New Zealand, because if they are on an employer-specific permit their permit will be negated or in jeopardy if they are sacked. I would have thought that, given that there is no select committee process, the bill is being rammed through the House, and there is an inadequate regulatory impact statement, it was reasonable of the Opposition to ask a question about something that is incredibly important to the economy of this country, and that is what happens to the status of migrants. I would have thought that was a reasonable question. A colleague put it forward, and I put it forward again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe other question I ask goes back to the points made by Mr Carter and other people about teachers. We know that Anne Tolley made a commitment that this bill does not apply to teachers. I remember during the election campaign raising the same issue in my own electorate, at the Rangiora War Memorial Hall, with this Minister\u2014or member, as she was then. I think Mr Carter or Mr Mallard outed Ms Tolley and then outed Ms Wilkinson in respect of their responses on this issue. We got a lot of waffle from Ms Wilkinson as a candidate then; we never got an answer. If we look at the background, we see that Ms Tolley, the Minister of Education, said that the bill would not apply to teachers, we had an election campaign where Ms Wilkinson said it would apply, and the bill itself makes no exemption for teachers. Then we read new section 67A(4)\u2014in clause 7\u2014which simply states: \u201C \u2018Employer\u2019 means an employer who, at the beginning of the day on which the employment agreement is entered into, employs fewer than 20 employees.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWell, there is a school in my electorate called View Hill School. It is a two to three teacher school. I will have to go to that school next week and tell the board and the staff that this legislation will apply when they employ a new teacher. From time to time Ms Wilkinson resides in the same patch that I do. I would like to know whether she went to View Hill School and told them that. I am going to tell them, and I am sure they will be shocked about it. I would have thought she would have a skerrick of decency and would get on her feet and answer that question. There are thousands of teachers, trainee teachers, and boards of trustees waiting for an answer\u2014I think Mr Mallard said a third of schools have fewer than twenty employees\u2014and I would have thought she would exercise her professional responsibility to get to her feet and clarify the situation. If she will not do that, then she has answered the question, and we know what to do on Monday morning, before schools break up for the holidays.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIf it is the case that the bill applies to teachers, it was never signalled. That is a broken promise made by this Government, because the former spokesperson on education, now the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222162ca8e43fc41d295f78eba63272b2c\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Add it to the list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249d9b01f4046446cb0329283a3cb8afe\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201CAdd it to the list.\u201D, my colleague says\u2014made an absolute commitment on tape, on YouTube, or on whatever it was\u2014[Interruption] It was on Television One tonight? I did not see the news. If that is the case, should not that Minister be exercising her professional duty to get off her backside, get on her feet, and actually clarify the situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224aceb883ac6b428baa398d0076f1bec7\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, have some decorum!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d68fdeb11a134a13afbcce4d7bd2f085\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure Mr Hayes would like to go to his schools. I am sure he will have his teachers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abc5ca94fda44df8ad560bcc74a501d9\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t know him over there!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022377be6a108fc4d999f003c7fa203a0fe\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they do not know him\u2014OK. I would have thought those members would say that it was fair enough to put that question\u2014and the immigration question\u2014to the Minister. They have been put and put and put by Opposition members, and we see the arrogance of the Minister, who, after only a couple of weeks in the job, will not get up and answer those simple questions. There is no politics in them; these are questions that we need answers to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022 data-id=\u00223da40fcf8c1446f089822f1f062ee9ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223da40fcf8c1446f089822f1f062ee9ff\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4ccda380aa54ee38f88a2203d5402ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4ccda380aa54ee38f88a2203d5402ce\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This part of the legislation is being presented as being for the benefit of employees. The Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, has said that this part is in the interests of employees and that it is being done for their benefit. I want to discuss that proposition, because it seems to me to be a ludicrous suggestion that is mere cant, designed to hide the agenda of the National Government. This is truly for the benefit of employers and for those whom National does not want to offend. It hits not all employees, but only the least powerful ones. This is like the National Government saying that a lower minimum wage is better for low-paid workers. It is the same sort of logic\u2014[Interruption] I did not hear that, I am sorry, Dr Cullen. It is like the idea of lower minimum wages for the benefit of low-paid workers. It is that same sort of nonsense being visited again on the least able to advocate for their own interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EIf National thought this was for the benefit of employees, why has it not made it compulsory for high-paid employees? It is effectively compulsory for low-paid workers, because they are not in a position to contract out of this; they effectively have to take what they are given because they are not powerful people. They are not highly skilled; they do not have the ability to go to their employer and say: \u201CThere\u2019s only a few of me around. You\u2019ve got to employ me. I\u2019m not going to put up with that condition.\u201D Low-skilled workers do not have that same power; they are forced to take the conditions that are being offered by the employer, and that includes the ability, now, to sack them within 90 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EIf that is good for low-paid workers, effectively on a compulsory basis because they do not have the ability to contract out of it, why is it not compulsory for high-paid people? This is clearly for the benefit of employers. We should take away this nonsense that it is somehow for the benefit of the vulnerable. It is not for the benefit of the vulnerable; it is for the benefit of employers. It is not even for the benefit of all employers; it is, effectively, for the benefit of bad employers. But National is happy to scratch that itch. It is happy to try to keep those people happy, but it is not willing to be honest about what this is, which is that it is compulsory for the most vulnerable workers. National is not willing to visit that compulsion on the people who would vote for the National Party. I am talking about higher-paid people who are in a position to contract out of it, and will contract out of it. No, it is not forced upon them; it is forced only upon the vulnerable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003ETo hear the Minister trying to dress this up as being for the benefit of the people who are being abused by this change to the legislation is detestable. I really do think that in terms of logic it does stand up there in the same way as the old National habit of never increasing the minimum wage. How often did National increase the minimum wage during 1990s? Once.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcdd8ea53d2a4feda0b4e303b29ca4a9\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: By 87c.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223197b3a67c746ca830b789a91befd62\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. It increased it by 87c over that long period, and low-paid workers went back in real terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feb0c9abefb2403e80a1ca303f474779\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: We did it by $5 over 9 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d03de4b804947438a6b37a65f9b1944\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. There was a $5 increase in the minimum wage during the tenure of the Labour-led Government. That is the difference between the National Party and the Labour Party. Under Labour, all people went forward. Their terms and conditions of employment were improved, and that included the vulnerable and also the better-off. Under this legislation, which the Minister has the temerity to pretend is for the benefit of low-paid workers, the low-paid workers are the ones who suffer. It is not for their benefit. National is not willing to admit that it is, effectively, compulsory for low-paid workers who are not able to advocate their position. National is not willing to follow through on that same principle and make it compulsory for higher-paid workers\u2014which would also be wrong. But the reason National members are not willing to make that principle clear is that those people are National voters, they think. They do not want to offend them, but they are willing to offend and undermine the interests of the most vulnerable in our society\u2014the lowest paid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf144a7284d349e4bbc66d6b97bfe16d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf144a7284d349e4bbc66d6b97bfe16d\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I move that the motion be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df8ff18ab124dc4849c66ee21ba67cc\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: That was not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022278481244d8f454ab2d611fc5954c8eb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. In case you were inclined to accept the closure motion, I point out that it was, of course, put in the incorrect manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb059f9b2cf8448199632c1e8b2c6d9a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank you. I heard what the member said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022 data-id=\u00221d6b2011633c4548ab171d035884221a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d6b2011633c4548ab171d035884221a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I rise again to reinforce to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, that Mr Mallard\u2019s exemption is on the Table at the moment. It seeks an exemption for teachers from the 90-day clause, and this is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier, some 30 percent of our schools have 20 employees or fewer. When Labour came into Government in 1999, 60 percent of our schools had 20 employees of fewer, but thanks to our wonderful staffing endowment of 1:18, then 1:15 and extra staff for learning support, we have seen the number of small schools drop. Nevertheless, 30 percent of our schools\u2014about 800 schools\u2014have 20 employees or fewer. Finding staff for these schools has been a very difficult issue, which the National Party has often raised in question time: how difficult it is to find quality teachers for rural, remote and small urban schools. But how will this legislation impact on that? It will impact in a very negative way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EIn addition to these 800 or so small schools, we have about 5,000 early childhood education centres, or ECEs. These have also expanded enormously with our 20 free hours\u2019 policy and with over a billion dollars in investment in new capacity in early childhood learning. As every member here knows and supports, getting children into early childhood education is the best and most effective thing we can do to set them on a successful learning path. It avoids all of those other issues we are so exercised about, such as crime, underachievement, unemployment, and so on. What happens to these early childhood education centres? At the moment there is a chronic shortage of staff. Yes, we have invested in capacity. Yes, we have invested in salaries. We are rapidly trying to train young people to go into the early childhood education sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EBut what sort of message will this legislation send out to those young potential teachers wanting to go in? They are being told that, sure, they will have to do their 3 years\u2019 training and be assessed professionally, but if the principal or the board of trustees do not like them, and if in some way they do not fit in, then they are out. When Mr Mallard spoke earlier, he talked about how, often in isolated communities, issues that might not exercise us very much become very divisive. Often a board of trustees is dominated by one family or one group. I have had to deal, over my desk as Minister of Education, with some very unpleasant and unhappy situations in schools, where we have had to put in statutory intervention. If there was an extra capacity for a board of trustees or a principal to sack teachers for no reason whatsoever\u2014remember, under this legislation it is not required to give a reason\u2014then that sort of abuse could easily happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EThis legislation will be a barrier to recruiting staff, particularly principals, and, as we all know, the principal is the key to a successful school. It is getting harder to attract principals into rural areas and small, failing schools. Every member here can probably think of his or her own electorate, where there is a school that is perceived by the community as not being successful. The way of turning those schools around is to get the best type of principal possible, but this legislation gives a board of trustees the ability to sack a principal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EEarlier, we heard the rationale from National speakers that this was a new opportunity to get people into employment, and that employers would take new migrants and young people who are currently unemployed. I have to say to the Minister that the process of a person becoming a teacher is a rigorous process. There is a training period. There is a 2-year probationary period. Teachers are required\u2014and Mrs Tolley probably does not know this\u2014to have a yearly assessment against professional standards. There is a standard for beginning teachers, a different standard for fully registered teachers, and another one for experienced teachers. There are lots of mechanisms in place to make sure that the teachers in our schools are professional, competent, and doing their jobs, and, if they are not, there are mechanisms to remove them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI was a teacher for many years. I was privileged to be the Minister of Education, and my partner is a school principal, so this is a sector I know very well. I say to the Minister that I cannot see how this legislation will positively impact on employment in schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022b134c5775a4140ad8781c143803aa012\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b134c5775a4140ad8781c143803aa012\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002262459ae77e9a4cf69ae63a8ee05c0130\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227be66f39dd0346ce8b4b6cf7ce135673\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: There are a number of amendments to Part 2. The first is an amendment to clause 7 in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to the heading of new section 67A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002276682356c0754963a2631dcf01f1e44a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276682356c0754963a2631dcf01f1e44a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am sorry to interrupt, but we cannot tell which of the amendments you are referring to. I think you need to refer to the italics in order to make it clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220238e0d5c0d24fe1863913f9474f3b7b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: There is only one amendment to the heading of new section 67A, and that is what I have referred to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003Eto omit from the heading to section 67A \u201C90 days\u201D and substitute \u201C1 day\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002243bb80cc87944b95944a1aaa6568a1b1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022894fd640f5b1482aa3aedb1757bf7a4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022894fd640f5b1482aa3aedb1757bf7a4e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Could you now inform us which of the two amendments that refer to new section 67A we have voted on? Is it the one that makes it clear that an employer cannot make a trial provision a condition of employment, or is it the one that changes the maximum trial period to 1 day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d12aea5f38f4388a23fea2d84837d41\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: It is the amendment in the member\u2019s name to the heading of new section 67A. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257b3334072794f35b17d627b4b2026a7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: So that is the maximum trial period one? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022101ec264e20348faba66cf22b98cb19c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next amendment, in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard, is to new section 67A(1).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002262ddbc8c482241e59d7625a29d9e8b42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262ddbc8c482241e59d7625a29d9e8b42\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Are you putting the vote on the Supplementary Order Paper or the amendment to the clause? You called it on the amendment to the clause but not on the Supplementary Order Paper. Are you doing the full thing as one, or will we have a clause by clause, new section by new section vote as part of the amendments that are before the Committee? I am happy, of course, to do it section by section, but normally we do it Supplementary Order Paper by Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022950f7cd34ca84097b5ba45dac507dbd3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: This is an amendment to new section 67A(1) in clause 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003Eto insert in section 67A(1) after \u201Cas defined in subsection 4\u201D, \u201C(subject to the process in section 67AA.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ea6af7df0221420ca70fcd9d0e746eb9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001276\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001277\u0022\u003Eto omit from section 67A(2)(a) \u201Cfor a specified period (not exceeding 90 days)\u201D, and substitute \u201Cfor one day\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022de76e1b6cd034316bf3a8433b42c487d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001278\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001279\u0022\u003Eto insert in section 67A(2)(c) after \u201Cin respect of the dismissal\u201D, \u201C(subject to the process in section 67AA\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221537b1efe6954d19b4b5ffeeb1b13361\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001280\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001281\u0022\u003Eto insert in section 67A the following subsection:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001282\u0022\u003E(4A)\tA trial provision under subsection (2) does not apply if the employer makes it a requirement of employment.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002269b05e0eabf849bb8a07131762660549\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001283\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001284\u0022\u003Eto add to section 67A the following subsection:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001285\u0022\u003E(6)\tA trial provision under subsection (2) can apply only to a position of employment where the trial provision has been specified as being part of the employment agreement for that position, and as such:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001286\u0022\u003E(a)\tThe trial provision must be fully disclosed in any position description or material seeking applicants for the employment position; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001287\u0022\u003E(b)\tCannot be subsequently added to either the employment description or any subsequent employment agreement.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a7c32a669401436cba81717c1a9bf78c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001288\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001289\u0022\u003Eto insert the following section:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001290\u0022\u003E67AA Actions by employer in cases of employee non-performance\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPrior to giving an employee on a trial provision notice of termination, the employer needs to have carried out the following actions:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001291\u0022\u003E(a)\tSet out for the employee in writing any concerns that could result in the employee\u2019s employment being terminated, and any behaviour required by the employee to address these concerns; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001292\u0022\u003E(b)\tProvided a reasonable period of time for the concerns referred to in subsection (1)(a) to be addressed; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001293\u0022\u003E(c)\tProvided, after the period referred to in subsection (1)(b), written notice of dismissal setting out in which way the concerns were not addressed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227cb0089c08604ed38ce0cf36a6867ec6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001294\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001295\u0022\u003Eto insert in section 67B(1) before \u201Cnotice of the termination\u201D, \u201Cwritten\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002266efce43c3a24584bf345002eca2c4ea\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0354aaa043340609f0493975437c93d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0354aaa043340609f0493975437c93d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next amendment is in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard, to insert words in new section 67B(2) in clause 7. The question is that this amendment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221974cef0c95d4c02a8d82a73c25e6d8f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I would have thought that you would have ruled this out now, given the earlier decision on the part to which this refers. Clearly this amendment refers to actions set out in my proposed amendment to insert new section 67AA. That amendment was not agreed to by the Committee, and in those circumstances I think the Chair would normally rule out a subsequent amendment to it. One cannot amend a clause that the Committee has already declined to pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cd572f9a8f14fb58351d42466026c13\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member wish to withdraw this amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229de078e86dfa4c438d0902760eeee3d3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I am asking for your ruling, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec06389f57da41ffb1966ecc041eafe2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I have already called it, so we will put it to the vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003Eto insert in section 67B(2) after \u201Cin respect of the dismissal\u201D, \u201Cprovided that the employer has undertaken the actions set out in section 67AA\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c8814c130f6544d1811d2df94ea5132c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001303\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001304\u0022\u003Eto insert in section 67B the following subsection:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001305\u0022\u003E(3A)\tA person whose employment agreement is terminated in accordance with subsection (1) shall be able to mediate the employer\u2019s decision not to continue the employment, but there shall be no other recourse to personal grievance procedures under section 103(1)(a) of this Act.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227164cca2cc8d4b9b8c1b59d6ffbfc495\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u00222b16bac0b7ba4586986edd90df8d1954\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b16bac0b7ba4586986edd90df8d1954\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next amendment is in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard, to insert subsection (4A) in section 67B in clause 7. The question is that this amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022670bb4c0b25f4fa0a6e5be1ff1ff94e6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Is this new section 67B(1) as opposed to just section 67?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277e1c0581e78483ca0048c9e989e38d8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, this is an amendment to insert subsection (4A) in section 67B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003Eto insert in section 67B the following subsection:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E(4A)\tIn the event that an employer considers that an employee is unable to successfully complete the probationary employment, then the employer shall advise the employee in writing of the reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022141590814dc5400896d42454ae9c9777\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001312\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001313\u0022\u003Eto insert the following section:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001314\u0022\u003E67C\tTeachers to be exempted from probationary period\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001315\u0022\u003E\tSections 67A and 67B do not apply to teaching positions at any state school as defined in section 145(1) of the Education Act 1989.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227ffbe5c2d2264866b187ff52ace87f11\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001316\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Sue Bradford to Part 2 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001317\u0022\u003Eto insert the following new clauses:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001318\u0022\u003E7A\tEffect of dismissal during trial period on social security benefit entitlement\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001319\u0022\u003E\tSection 60H of the Social Security Act 1964 does not apply to any person whose employment is terminated in accordance with section 67B(1).\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001320\u0022\u003E7B\tConsequential amendment to Social Security Act 1964\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001321\u0022\u003E\tSection 60H(3)(c) of the Social Security Act 1964 is amendment by inserting the words \u201Cother than in circumstances where section 67B(1) of the Employment Relations Act 2000 applies to his or her loss of employment,\u201D after the word \u201Cemployment\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225250859c985141e9841ef62faeab3f2d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u00227e7557ef219042c5b0aa76b708fb1145\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e7557ef219042c5b0aa76b708fb1145\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Part 2\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002263c500418c9144679af3bbbabb7946b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263c500418c9144679af3bbbabb7946b3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I asked you, during that vote, whether you were putting the amendment in my name to new section 67B(1) in clause 7. You said that you were not and that you were putting an amendment to new section 67B, to add subsection (4A). I checked specifically at the time to make sure it was not the amendment that I knew I had tabled, because I had written it out. You assured me it was not the amendment to section 67B(1). That means we have not yet had a vote on my amendment. I am happy to supply you with another copy; it has been on the Table for some time. Given your ruling earlier that we were not voting on it then, I ask that we vote on it now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277d053966f554d6fbb7e2b3cce5a177d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: We have already dealt with the amendment to section 67B(1), and a vote was taken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222edc274cade749ba8185d5880a7755ba\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You told us you did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d9c999ba7484bff87850b93bdc85d0d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The amendment you asked about was further down, after we had already voted on that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eaea5ad57fdf46d2929d38c8aa7150ad\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e7eb99d0c16b4ac0b91140fcc36e020c\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002244a3ad49dd9b4c3b8c24b71159cc5917\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244a3ad49dd9b4c3b8c24b71159cc5917\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Generally, I think these things would go through relatively smoothly, but there are two issues, or possibly three\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eacd49fe0506444c8258b4abe815e26d\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a wide-ranging debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291d531817dc644e49ee98f760bd59a03\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It may be a wide-ranging debate, but normally people accept these things, although in this case there is no acceptance from members on our side of the Chamber that these provisions are appropriate. There are at least three points that I can think of in this particular area, which are very specific starting points for the debate, before we broaden it out more generally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe first point is whether it is appropriate\u2014and maybe it is appropriate\u2014to have this bill come into force on April Fool\u2019s Day, because it is the Government\u2019s intention that the bill come into force on April Fool\u2019s Day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d821c1be9fc47debb94d20db26c2daf\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Then why the urgency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc3d2d3da3f14dd5baebd74b2d86ee52\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Why the urgency? There is no urgency at all; it is only that the Government is too chicken to allow the bill to be referred to a select committee and have a bit of a debate on it over the summer. The Government is too scared to let its backbenchers hear submissions on the bill, and that is the reason why the Government is passing the bill now, although it will not come into effect until later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EIt is unusual that the ACT Party intends to move an amendment. It is a support party to the Government generally, but it is to move an amendment. ACT, of course, is trying to save the Government from some of its embarrassment whereby the bill is to come into force in April. ACT would like to see it commence on 1 March next year. I make it clear that the Labour Party will not be supporting the ACT amendment to bring the bill into force earlier. We think that if the bill is to come into force, then possibly April Fool\u2019s Day is appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EBut there is a more substantive issue around this bill, because members will be aware that a petition is circulating by email, and by other means, to request that the Governor-General not assent to this bill. I am sure we will have some discussion from the previous Attorney-General and the current Attorney-General on that issue, and I make it clear that I am not a supporter of that petition. I think it is the right of the Government, once Parliament has passed a bill\u2014in fact some people would say there is an obligation on the part of a Government, when bills have been passed\u2014to recommend to the Governor-General that he or, in the previous case, she assents to the bill. It is part of the constitution that the procedure works in that way in New Zealand. It is an interesting approach, when we look at what is happening in Canada. That country is having a substantial discussion on this issue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271a971c0732d49e9a84f3811acfbb263\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: On this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d6d69f0280c41168b8279b299d14e86\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is an important issue. It goes to the question of whether assent is given, the role of the Government in seeking it, and the role of the Governor-General in reacting to recommendations that are made. I think Simon Power will have some experience of that, at some stage in the future. Generally, it is the Prime Minister or the Attorney-General who makes such recommendations. Every now and again, for reasons that are never clear to me, that responsibility is passed on to another Minister. I know that, because I was the person who recommended to the Governor-General that the Prostitution Reform Bill be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022903552ccb8e94f6cbee78f3ce02efcae\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I would ask the Minister to confine his comments to clauses 1 and 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275b5b518fbc24fdba3307768ff81cc8e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Mr Chairman; I thought I had made it clear I was talking to clause 2(1) of this bill. I was talking about the bill receiving the Royal assent and the methodology that is required for that to occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI think this is the first time I have known of a petition arising since 1977. I think at that stage there was a petition to the Governor-General as to whether he should assent to the SIS legislation that was going through the House at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e00ba46d0aa7433fb71a095564ec8d51\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CKiwi Keith\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d7c4e496bb4f0ca9bd5297b3ca0234\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CKiwi Keith\u201D agreed, on one of the few times when he did agree, with the then Prime Minister, Rob Muldoon, and assented to the legislation. But speaking of the not-that-much lamented late Prime Minister Rob Muldoon, I tell members there was a very good example from him, at least one example, of legislation that he did not send to the Governor-General. I am sure the previous Attorney-General will be able to outline the other case. It was a case under the previous National Government of a bill that was passed by this House when Winston Peters was Treasurer. It concerned a bill he was promoting in the area of overseas investment, and that bill never made it to the Governor-General\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f21d18bd9e2a480984bb170cf8d8b766\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was assented to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc0581595d8f4e0da31d72a8f92b835c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am told by the previous Attorney-General that, in fact, it was assented to. But it was not brought into force. I apologise if I misled the Committee because my understanding of the situation was incorrect. The then Government had that bill assented to, but subsequently failed to send the Order in Council to the Governor-General that would have brought the bill, or presumably part of the bill, into force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThese things may seem to be arcane procedures to some of the newer members, but they are quite important matters constitutionally. I was indicating before that in Canada, over the last week or so, these issues have been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227428b474be7d406c827aa1e380165a57\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: We could have a 90-day probation period for bills, I suppose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236b923c9c5014ff1939f9b1521973ed2\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think that for some bills that would be appropriate. There would have to be some sort of override provision to the 90 days for emergencies and similar things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5152ce4b5e44ca081504f731c93533b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Small bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c74cf83e56c5464ca915e4dfcdc2e8f3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think there should be a 90-day period for long bills\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c0776e0806d43229c58c6342f7eee73\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Less than 20 clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b78275a70df24dd9a15d36e0e0f30eb8\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Fewer than 20 clauses; the previous Minister of Commerce\u2019s use of grammar is somewhat mixed at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdb370f80a9d45fca0d1b9d6782955f4\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s been mingling with National Party billboard writers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6cba75819bb419e9d3ce285963106ea\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: She has been spending too much time with the people who have been drafting the National Party billboards and the people who were talking hard about literacy\u2014although I am not sure that all clauses in this bill are grammatically correct, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI think this legislation is called the Employment Relations Amendment Act 2008, but it will be that only when it is passed. I make it clear that it is a question of debate as to whether it is appropriate to call it an Act at this stage, when it is not an Act, or whether that is premature. In fact, it is a question of whether the Minister in the chair is misleading the Committee, and asking us to agree to this legislation being described as the Employment Relations Amendment Act 2008, when clearly it is not that and cannot be that until it receives the assent of the Governor-General under subclause 2(1) of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EIn fact, parts of this legislation will not come into force until 1 April, which I assume will be some time after it receives the Royal assent. The way that these things go, in my experience, is that within a week or so the legislation will be checked for errors by the Clerk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022335bc062b38c4cd894f12ff0ecb2e0cb\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: What sort of errors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fab7bc6793a473aa6903d151f5f5038\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, grammatical errors, spelling errors, punctuation errors, and clause reference errors. Those things, which are regarded as minor errors, are within the realm of the Clerk to correct. The assent copy, which goes to the Governor-General, is in fact the copy that has to be right, because the courts will go to that copy later. Being generous to us, they will allow the minor errors to be corrected, but of course the substantive ones cannot be corrected in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EGoing to the Governor-General is an important process. It has a long tradition, and the Crown has not always automatically assented to legislation. I think if we go back into the Westminster tradition, we find bills were quite often rejected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe other point that we could get into is that we have a relatively simple process. Having just a unicameral system\u2014not having an Upper House, as many Parliaments do\u2014means we do not need to work bills through to the Upper House and back again. However, I understand that as part of the constitutional review, the M\u0101ori Party has agreed with the National Party that there is a possibility of a two-House system being introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b25de8af285b469884a0cf73da7b93f5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Richard Worth!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022496c89c303894cc597ea4d6ec1042b87\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: We thought earlier in the evening that Richard Worth had died, because he was asleep for so long. He did not move for such a long period of time that we were scared that that had occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022 data-id=\u00229783e60cda024862809fc31bbd10498c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229783e60cda024862809fc31bbd10498c\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to speak to the amendment in my name. The reason it is there is very simple, and it is entirely consistent with the speeches that we have made earlier in the debate. In ACT\u2019s view, the bill\u2014and I think my learned friend Mr Mallard over there might be correct that it is indeed still a bill\u2014is designed to promote employment, and is a good idea for the economy and for workers. That being the case, it seems entirely silly to delay the commencement of such a sound idea, as embodied in the bill, until 1 April. It is very sensible, in my view, to advance the commencement date to 1 March. As I have said, it is entirely consistent with what we have said in our contributions to both the first and second reading debates, and I commend that amendment to honourable members. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022 data-id=\u0022c622ff4d495a4439879bfe382176064c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c622ff4d495a4439879bfe382176064c\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E On that basis, the member would want to bring in the bill in its entirety on the day after it receives Royal assent, rather than limiting it to just clause 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff99ac5347434eb78d83ac3eb57981d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201ffe563791e465db7c593d0ab121f0e\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: The member should move an amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b19b84700974e43b6417e8e56a4e535\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I am not moving an amendment, because I do not support this bill, and I do not support it coming into effect on 1 April or at any other time. I think that this bill is appalling. My colleague Trevor Mallard gave us a very esoteric traverse through the whole constitutional arrangements that apply to legislation, but whether or not one agrees with the petition that is being circulated at the moment in respect of asking the Governor-General not to give the Royal assent\u2014and I am actually with my colleague on that; I do not agree with the way the petition is being presented\u2014it is probably understandable that it is being done, because there is no other way that people have any opportunity to put on record their opposition to this bill. But it does not make this process any less anti-democratic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EIt is utterly anti-democratic to bring legislation into this House that does not even match the policy that the party campaigned on, and that is not included in the 100-day action plan. It is not even listed in there. It does not turbocharge the economy, and it certainly does nothing to lift productivity, as has been made as a point over and over again in the election campaign. It does none of those things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThis bill is going through an absolutely anti-democratic process. In fact, nothing that the ACT Party might move in terms of bringing it forward and nothing about the constitutional process that may follow its passing will make it democratic, because it is actually a betrayal of everything that National said it stood for in the election campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EWe have already read into the record the National Party\u2019s policy on this bill; it is not matched by the bill that has been introduced. The National Party policy said that a National Government would retain good faith, but it has not retained good faith for the first 90 days of someone\u2019s employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2c9797c9176435faafedefa69459f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b289613741c04acca5cdcecd010e6884\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we have!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226804c8430b7842d291869255d311afb1\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: No, we have not. The reason that the National Party has not allowed for good faith is that it is quite happy that somebody takes on a job and for no reason whatsoever has his or her employment terminated. In fact, this gives carte blanche to any employer to disguise racism, to disguise sexism, and to disguise anything as anything that they want, because they do not have to give a reason for the termination, at all. What on earth makes people think that employers will be explicit about breaching the Human Rights Act when they do not need to be? All they need to do is say: \u201CI am sorry; don\u2019t come Monday.\u201D That is the new name of the bill: the \u201CDon\u2019t Come Monday Bill\u201D. All an employer has to do is say: \u201CWe don\u2019t want you here.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI think it is an absolute sophistry for National Party members to say that they have in any way consulted the general public about this bill, and I am not surprised that so many people are signing the petition, because there is no other way of showing outrage at the way the National Party is treating the people of New Zealand. Even Business New Zealand does not agree with the National Party\u2019s ramming this bill through under urgency. As for Mr Rodney Hide, our new Minister for Regulatory Reform, this is the second bill that we have dealt with under this new Parliament\u2014the second bill\u2014that has an inadequate regulatory impact assessment. That is just unacceptable, and I find it absolutely extraordinary that a brand new Minister in a brand new role has not seen fit to do a proper process around something as important as this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EWhat nobody has taken into account in respect of this bill is the little bit that has been included at the end of the explanatory note under the Small Business Advisory Group comment: \u201CConsideration could be given to evaluating the outcomes of this legislative change with a view to extending it to cover all employers in the future.\u201D That is the real plan. They have even put it into the explanatory note. So this will not even be a small employer or small business policy; the National Party plans to extend this to every employer in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe reason the National Party is doing this under urgency is that it does not want the public scrutiny. It is very, very nervous of taking this out to the public and letting the public have their say, because it knows perfectly well that the vast majority of people who would submit on this bill would oppose it. The reason they would oppose it is that they know the sophistry behind the argument around new migrants and around young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2008120936781f538ae24e46b5f07cefbb416a58001374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12 midnight to 9 a.m. (Friday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e61043938cf74e698a7b5ecc74ea9731\u0022\u003ETuesday, 9 December 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c0aeec523df4259bb87f2e9666c052e\u0022\u003E(continued on Friday, 12 December 2008)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5fa6f1744794796816fda6f96fd6aa8\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac8ad1a08f7047e48ad4a541d698231f\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed5d02ee00464ff489f1c3f00794198e\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022 data-id=\u002266cff0bb3b8c438087f52cafe62a7df4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266cff0bb3b8c438087f52cafe62a7df4\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take my additional 4 minutes and 30 seconds of speaking time, and probably a couple of other calls, as well, because this is a very important opportunity to finally get answers from Minister Kate Wilkinson on the questions we have been asking throughout the Committee stage. Of course, because the bill has not been to a select committee, we are entitled to scrutinise it in a very in-depth way in the Committee stage. There is a wide-ranging debate on clauses 1 and 2 when a bill has not been to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI believe there are a number of questions that the Minister should respond to. The first one is why does this legislation have to go through all its stages under urgency when it does not come into effect until 1 April next year\u2014the April Fool\u2019s joke, as we have described it in this House over the last day? It is important for the Minister to explain why the bill is going through under urgency. Even the New Zealand Herald cannot understand why it is going through under urgency, \u201Cother than to give the perception that the Government has \u2018momentum\u2019 \u201D. Well, that is not very satisfactory, and I believe that the Government should explain why this bill is being rushed through all its stages without going to a select committee, and without democratic input. Because the bill is not coming into effect until 1 April, there is plenty of time to send it to a select committee, to call for submissions, and to have it still take effect from 1 April next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe second question that the Minister has not yet responded to is the question of immigration visa status. One of the subsequent questions that really follows on from the one I have asked is whether the Immigration Service will now decline to accept, as a job offer, anything that contains within it a trial provision. Of course, if the Immigration Service continues to accept job offers for the purpose of allocating points under the skilled migration scheme, then the trial provision actually negates the whole purpose of having a large number of points attributed to the job offer because it does not mean anything. After 90 days the person may not have a job, and the whole point of having a high number of points allocated to the job offer is to ensure that people are actually able to settle well in New Zealand and bring their skills into New Zealand and into skilled employment. That is a very serious question; the Minister has not responded to the question of how the Immigration Service will respond to trial provisions within an employment agreement. The Minister has stood up in this House on other occasions and said that it is just a matter of choice, and that people can freely negotiate one of these provisions into their agreement. But when people are desperate to find their way into New Zealand and are prepared to accept any terms and conditions\u2014and the Minister will find that out in her role as Associate Minister of Immigration\u2014they will sign up to trial provisions if that requirement is placed upon them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe third question that the Minister has not responded to concerns the particular vulnerability of young people going into their first jobs. They are entitled to know what their employer expects of them. It is not good enough that we let employers off the hook by saying they do not have a human resources department so therefore they will be let off the hook, or by saying they do not have to tell new employees what they expect from them and they can simply let them go. I think that the point I was making last night was a very serious one. When employers can simply let someone go without any explanation, without any reason being given, they could have breaches of our human rights laws at the back of their minds but they will certainly not bring them to the forefront. They may want to dismiss people when they turn up at work on Monday and find out that their manager has hired a M\u0101ori, someone from an Asian country, or a woman\u2014God forbid. So sexism and racism can occur under this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u00226f1a61e3e4b84f11a8226c499fe4112d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f1a61e3e4b84f11a8226c499fe4112d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In listening to this debate people would believe that only trade unionists, trendy lefties, and Wellington\u2019s useless bureaucrats were interested in this bill. But I have to tell the National Government that there is a lot of interest in this bill around New Zealand, and that came home to me last night when I went to the Rongotai College prize-giving. The first person I spoke to was a National Party member and campaign organiser. He said: \u201CI do not like the bill the National Party has brought into Parliament. I do not like it and I don\u2019t think it is fair.\u201D One of National\u2019s own members said that last night. National members think this is just our issue, but I tell them that it is becoming their issue. The second person who spoke to me was the wife of one of the people there last night. She said that she had been listening to the debate and that she knew how it worked. I said: \u201CDo you?\u201D, and she said: \u201CYes. My daughter is in the UK. She got a job under a 90-day rule. After 2 months they came into her office and said \u2018We don\u2019t think you\u2019re enjoying the job.\u2019 She said \u2018But I am enjoying the job.\u2019 They said \u2018We don\u2019t think you\u2019re enjoying the job; please pack your bag and go.\u2019 \u201D This woman had no rights. She had to go, and she left on that day. That is exactly what will happen to New Zealanders under this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI know that Kate Wilkinson has not been taking calls in this debate. She has not been undertaking her duty as a Minister. I know that when in Opposition Kate Wilkinson liked to ask multiple-choice questions to Ministers on the Government side of the House. I do not want to bring the Chairperson into the debate, but I happen to know that the person sitting next to the Minister faced quite a number of such questions from her. So I have a few today; they are quite easy to answer. The Minister can put up her hand if the answer is yes, or she can at least move in the chair. Can the Minister tell this Committee whether teachers in schools with fewer than 20 staff will be covered? Is the Minister right that they will be covered, is Anne Tolley right that they will not be covered, or does nobody know? What is the answer? Does the Minister know? Is Anne Tolley right, or does nobody know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0090861164648718518a53f4d62d8dd\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: She is doing a written answer!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222edd061e271a4b1e9cea5d20225e4b5a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, she is doing a written answer to me. Well, I hope it will not come by snail mail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EHow about another question, then? What did the Human Rights Commission say? It said: \u201CRushed legislation is potentially risky legislation and this is a fundamental change to employment law which requires serious consideration.\u201D Can the Minister tell me whether the Human Rights Commission is right\u2014yes, no, or does she not know? Just one of those answers will do. For those who are not watching the television but listening to the radio, I can say that the Minister\u2019s mouth is not even moving; she is not even whispering. Her head is down, she is reading press releases about herself, and she is not answering any questions in this Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EWhat about this multiple-choice question? Is the Human Rights Commission correct when it says that \u201CThere appears to be no compelling need given the current economic conditions to take short cuts in the political process or for such urgency on this proposed legislation,\u201D? I ask the Minister whether the Human Rights Commission is correct\u2014yes, no, or does the Minister not know? I ask the Minister whether we can have an answer on that one. Is it too much to ask for the Minister to get up on her feet and answer some questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EWhat about this one? The Minister said that access to mediation was a privilege\u2014access to mediation was a privilege\u2014for workers, so I want to know the answer to this question: does she believe in rights for workers, or does she think that rights exist only for employers? Does she think that only employers are allowed privileges? I ask the Minister whether we can have an answer on that, please. There is no answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI tell the people of New Zealand that it is a downright disgrace that we have a Minister being asked questions about a bill that will not go to a select committee, and that the public of New Zealand have no right to look at, but that the Minister will not get out of her chair and answer a single question about, on behalf of New Zealanders. Shame on this Minister! I always thought that this Minister, this person, this member of Parliament, had more integrity than that. I ask the Minister why she will not answer these questions. I have been told by members on this side of the Chamber, and those who have been debating this bill on behalf of New Zealanders, that she has refused to answer. There can be no excuse for not following a process, at least this process of answering questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI think that National members ought to hold their heads in shame. They said that when they became the Government they would do things in an open and transparent way. This Minister said that the Employment Relations Amendment Bill was not even included in National\u2019s 100-day plan. She misled the public on that. How can we have trust in a Minister who tells the public one thing and then is party to a deceit in this Parliament by bringing in a bill that she said would not be in that 100-day plan? She did not tell the public that they would have no say on the bill at all, and that the bill would be rushed through under urgency, debated to midnight last night, and come back here today. And National was not able to say a word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThis legislation is, as the Human Rights Commission has said, a major change to the rights of workers\u2014it is a major human rights issue. The commission wants to make a submission on it. The Minister was very pleased to have its submission on the Electoral Finance Act. The Minister said that the commission was absolutely right on that, so why is it not right on this? I call that double standards. She thought that was OK then, but it is not now. I say to the Minister that she must take a call and answer the questions of my colleagues\u2014the ones that I have put repeatedly to her. Either she does not know what the answers are, or she is refusing to tell the public of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThis is not just about members on this side of the Chamber; this is about thousands of workers up and down New Zealand. This is about their families, their partners, and their children. It is about parents who worry about kids in their jobs, knowing they will be vulnerable and likely to be the first to lose their jobs, only to be taken back by some other employer for a bit of a trial period before being told: \u201CWe do not think you are enjoying this job, so we think you should pack your bags and go.\u201D And when I hear National say that it has legislation against discrimination, I ask how the Minister will read the minds of employers who say \u201CI don\u2019t think you are enjoying this job.\u201D while in a little bubble above their heads, they are saying \u201CYes, and you are 3 months pregnant, and we don\u2019t want you here.\u201D How will the Minister prove that that was not the real reason? That will not cover what an employer can do when there is no protection for a worker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EAll I can say to the Minister is that she should get up on her feet, earn her money, and answer the questions. She should stop smiling and smirking to her mates over there, and answer the questions. The Minister has a duty to New Zealand, to New Zealanders, and to New Zealand workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00226fd814c31495463ea7f704fe51225ca9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fd814c31495463ea7f704fe51225ca9\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I want to pick up where my colleague Annette King left off and raise a couple of other points. I made a statement to the Minister, who resides occasionally in my electorate of Waimakariri. In my electorate there is a two to three-teacher school called View Hill School. At a candidates\u2019 meeting in the Rangiora War Memorial Hall, the issue of what Anne Tolley had said was raised. Anne Tolley said that the Employment Relations Amendment Bill would not apply to teachers. I recall the member who is now the Minister of Labour addressing the meeting with a lot of weasel words. I think Kate Wilkinson might have called me a liar at the meeting; in fact, I am sure she did when I addressed her about her ambiguous statements. She said at that meeting that those provisions would not apply, and that I was lying. If that is the position, and they do not apply, then I ask her to tell us now as the Minister\u2014she has the warrant, the authority, because it is her bill\u2014to confirm what she said. The Minister should get up and do that now, because if she does not, the counterfactual prevails, and then we will know that those provisions do apply to teachers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWhy will the Minister not get up and confirm an answer to such a simple question? Surely, if the Minister is not bright enough she could turn to her officials and ask them. They will give her the answer, they can pass a note, and then the Minister could perhaps put at ease the student teachers and the teacher population of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI will raise another issue in respect of occupational safety and health. What happens to a worker in a sawmill who is employed under the 90-day probation provisions, and maybe there is a shonky employer? The worker does not want to use the saw, because it is not safe as there is no guard on it, so he says to the boss: \u201CI don\u2019t feel right about this. I might cut my hand off. I might injure my mates when I am using it.\u201D The worker may say: \u201CYou have not trained me, within the 90-day probation period, to use it properly, so I am concerned that I might injure myself or injure my mates. Will you train me?\u201D\u2014because we know there is a cost in training. The boss then gives the worker a pink slip and tells him to take a hike. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EHow will the Minister and her department police that? When that person has been sacked, it is his or her word against the word of the boss. How will that worker be protected? He or she has no personal grievance rights, no rights to anything\u2014they have gone\u2014and all the worker asked for was a safe workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI remember that Minister bleating at every candidates\u2019 meeting in my electorate when we talked about things like workers having safe workplaces. It actually makes sense to a boss to have a safe workplace, and most bosses have safe workplaces because it saves them money, of course. That member bleated that this was all nanny State. She loved going around saying \u201Cnanny State\u201D\u2014that to have a safe workplace is to have a nanny State. She said: \u201CNanny State, it\u2019s time for a change, choose a brighter future.\u201D, but she will not actually get up now and answer questions. The lips flapped away during the election campaign, but she will not get up now\u2014on her quarter of a million dollar salary, with the cars and the offices, and backed up by all the officials\u2014and confirm two questions. The first question relates to occupational safety, and the second relates to the status of migrants on specific work permits. They are basic questions. There are several reasons why she will not confirm them. Either she is horribly embarrassed and ashamed, but I would say she is embarrassed, because she is not ashamed of anything, or she will show up Anne Tolley big time, or she does not know, or she is weak. The truth is probably that she does know. We are right, she knows we are right, and she does not want to tell the people of New Zealand and have it on the record of the House that National is seriously vulnerable on all counts on this legislation. Those can be the only answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI invite members opposite, some of her more experienced colleagues, to give her advice and to say that the job of a Minister is to confirm critical legislation so as to give stakeholders in the community certainty. The Minister is all for giving the bosses certainty\u2014absolutely! Fire at will! But she will not give certainty to any of the stakeholders\u2014the teachers, migrants, and people who are concerned about occupational safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022 data-id=\u002200323158f827495dacec9e1057c7684f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200323158f827495dacec9e1057c7684f\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I had intended last night to ask the Minister of Labour, Kate Wilkinson, about an important question, but she must have been reading my mind because she answered it this morning in the Dominion Post. She said the Government was open to the possibility of extending the provisions of this bill to other workplaces, other than small and medium-sized enterprises. She said: \u201CAt this stage we are focusing on the small and medium-sized enterprises because they are struggling with compliance. Like anything, we\u2019ll see how it works out and we are always open to ideas.\u201D I want to make sure that people\u2014especially the workers of this country\u2014understand that they need to be very worried about this as the Minister signals the extension of this provision that will remove rights for all New Zealand workers. I think the Minister needs to wonder about the way workers will react to this news. We will certainly be making sure that we can provide her with the answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s arguments in favour of this bill have been that small businesses need this sort of provision. In the area of labour rights, clearly compliance with legislation is not a key factor. Unlike other provisions, such as taxation, where small businesses are expected to get on top of the issues and comply, in this area perhaps it is OK not to comply, and it is too difficult. Much has been made of the recommendations of the Small Business Advisory Group. I will refer to its most recent report, because the Minister spoke to us last night about the 2003-04 report. I had been an advisor to that group so I was present for the discussion on the 2008 report. A specific recommendation of that report was: \u201CThat information on good practice in employment relationships tailored to small business owners and managers, preferably endorsed by employer organisations, be made more readily available and be better promoted. This should include easier access to educational material and to support mechanisms (for example, free access to knowledgeable people who can provide practical and balanced advice to employers or employees on handling employment disputes).\u201D This was an attempt by the Small Business Advisory Group to get past just calling for the removal of rights so as to look at a more responsible approach to getting on top of their employment relationship responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003EThe other reason the Government appears to be giving in favour of this legislation is that some workers may be more likely to be given a chance if they have their rights at work removed. I note that removing unfair dismissal rights for all workers was not signalled by the Government before the election, so I think that the comments this morning will cause some concern. Likewise will the comments about choice that have been made by those on the other side of the Chamber, that this will be a choice\u2014people can choose at the start of the employment relationship. I want to know why the Minister is disregarding the advice of the Human Rights Commission, which notes its concern that the proposed legislation could impact negatively on school-leavers seeking their first job and on other vulnerable and disadvantaged groups. The commission recognises that at the point of employment many people will not have the knowledge or the confidence to make a fair choice on this matter. I would like to know the Minister\u2019s view on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002265c11a9e5e65462e835c4b3ec772a094\u0022\u003EI am aware, from my many years of experience in the union movement, that \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D propositions are quite common. Again, I would like to know whether the Minister is aware of that, or perhaps that is something that has never been raised with her by anybody. Especially in times of high unemployment, the bargaining power of workers is reduced. In fact the Employment Relations Act, to which this bill is an amendment, specifically, in the objects of the Act, recognises the inequality of bargaining power between workers and employers. It is a specific provision of this Act. In the real world we know that that is the case. We are amending an Act that in its objects specifically recognises the inequality of bargaining power. The Employment Relations Act also talks about building mutual trust and confidence and good faith in the workplace in order to develop productive employment relationships. That is certainly very important. I imagine that members on both sides of the Chamber recognise we need to lift productivity in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022 data-id=\u0022a47784a6f73249f2b7978e259020373c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a47784a6f73249f2b7978e259020373c\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is a wide-ranging debate and it is the last opportunity in the Committee stage to get some answers to some very important and very detailed questions, which the public have the right to know. This is their only chance to have those questions answered, because the Minister in her wisdom has decided to shortcut the democratic process, to rush this legislation through, and to ensure that the public and the practitioners in this area do not get a chance to ask these questions themselves, through the select committee process. These questions must be answered in the Committee stage, because this is the last opportunity for the New Zealand public to learn and understand what on earth was in the Minister\u2019s mind when she proposed this bill, and proposed it in such haste.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThis is the opportunity to talk about the bill\u2019s title and commencement date. The title is the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I am sure that sounds like quite a benign title to the many people who are listening to this debate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9dbd61f1e374a4ea11945691e6312e0\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Innocuous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270cd1e95be4745568a47affd0963d619\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is an innocuous title\u2014the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I say this in the context of people having become used to a Labour-led Government amending the Employment Relations Act. In that context, over the last decade New Zealand workers have known that every time the Employment Relations Act has been amended by a Labour-led Government, it has been amended in favour of workers. The Labour-led Government has amended the Employment Relations Act in order to enhance protections for workers. So I would not blame people if they thought that another Employment Relations Amendment Bill was going to enhance protections for workers\u2019 rights, because that is what has been happening for the last decade under a Labour-led Government. But they would be quite misled if that is what they believed. That is why I think the title does not really tell the public what is going on. In the context of having had a Labour-led Government protecting and enhancing workers\u2019 rights for almost a decade now, why would people think that an Employment Relations Amendment Bill might come along and take away workers\u2019 rights? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThey need to understand this, because the Government has changed. This is an amendment to the Employment Relations Act under a National-led Government. Guess what? It does take away workers\u2019 rights. This is the first time for almost a decade in this country that workers\u2019 rights have been depleted by amending the Employment Relations Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThe Labour-led Government has been enhancing workers\u2019 rights, be it by the introduction of paid parental leave, and increases and enhancements to it; 4 weeks\u2019 annual leave; or amendments to the Employment Relations Act to give protection to vulnerable workers whose jobs have been contracted out. The last time previous to this that the Employment Relations Act was amended, it was to give workers the right to have meal breaks and rest periods while at work. That was the very last time this Act was amended, so it is no wonder that some people will be fooled into thinking that an Employment Relations Amendment Bill is something that enhances and protects workers\u2019 rights. But this one does no such thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EIn talking about the meal breaks and rest periods, that most recent amendment to the Employment Relations Act, I recall the select committee deliberations held on that particular amendment. The Minister in the chair was at the time a member of the select committee that heard the submissions. One submission that really sticks in my mind was from a young man from Hamilton. He came to the select committee to tell us that he had been sacked because he had dared to take a lunch break from his job at Subway in Hamilton. That was the evidence we heard. I still recall the Minister in the chair, Kate Wilkinson, when she was a member of that select committee, saying to this young man: \u201CYes, but that\u2019s illegal and you can take a personal grievance to address the wrong that has happened to you.\u201D Yes, that was said by the very Minister who is now sitting in the chair. We asked this young man: \u201CHow long have you been working at Subway?\u201D. Guess what? It was for fewer than 90 days. Under this National-led Government, he will no longer have the right to take a personal grievance. The same member of Parliament, who is now the Minister and sitting in the chair, calmed down the young man by saying: \u201CNever mind, you\u2019ve got the right of legal redress.\u201D She advised him that he should take a personal grievance. But now she is the Minister, she is taking away his right to a personal grievance in his first 90 days of employment. There is a word for that but I am not allowed to use it in this Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u00227e4de1c1c6f0485da596b9834e14ee5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e4de1c1c6f0485da596b9834e14ee5f\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E When National Party members went out campaigning during the election and were focusing on the things that really matter, I wonder whether any of them said that the things that do not matter are jobs for ordinary people. The thing that matters most to every family in New Zealand is the chance to have a job to earn wages so they can pay the family bills. Those are the things that really matter. The National Party MPs sitting over there spend more time giggling about light bulbs than saying what they want to do before Christmas to working families in New Zealand. Politics is not just a big joke. I see one of the new National members over there in the back row\u2014Amy Adams, who gave her maiden speech earlier in the week. She is already giggling and laughing about how fun politics is, as she sits there, using her votes to rip away rights from working people in New Zealand. She is proud of it, but this was supposedly one of the things that really matters. We say that these things matter hugely to New Zealanders and we are going to fight all the way to make sure that we get answers out of this Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EIt is a disgrace that this Minister, Kate Wilkinson, was so excited to accept a ministerial warrant but now will not get up in the Chamber and answer simple, reasonable, and rational questions from the Opposition, when we represent many hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders who voted for us to make sure that we hold this Government to account\u2014and we will, because this is so important. She will not answer us. We have been in the Committee stage for around 5 hours. We are at the beginning of scrutinising this bill, which has not been to a select committee. We were told that it was not going to be part of the Government\u2019s first 100 days, but we now find it on the floor of the Chamber. I ask members if they know how many times the Minister has deigned to get up on her hind legs and address the country about this bill in that time? The answer is three miserable times. There are Opposition members of Parliament who have spoken more times on this bill in this Committee stage than its Minister has. She is letting this country down, and she is not earning her money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EI want to ask the Minister some questions to join the questions of all my colleagues. I ask her whether she believes that anyone will suffer as a result of this bill. Does the Minister believe that any worker will suffer as a result of this bill? She has nothing to say on that. Will the Minister even concede that this bill might have some negative consequences? There is silence from her on that, as well. There is nothing. She is not prepared to answer a single thing. There is not a whisper, a murmur, a knock at the door, a text message, an email, or even a fax from this woman; she will not tell us what she believes about this bill. We know that the Government is divided on this bill\u2014it is deeply divided. That is why Mrs Tolley is being hidden away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b94efdb9178845f2befec58ed8227fc2\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: In the attic!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f16b1b6e0614fba9f66ba11242696fa\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: She is in the attic. She is up in the civil defence room in the Beehive, hiding away from Gerry Brownlee. He is very grumpy at the moment on a whole multitude of fronts, and for good reason. The point is that Mrs Tolley is divided; the front-bench Minister is not allowed to give her opinion. She has misled the public on this bill. We know that the M\u0101ori Party does not support this bill. As soon as its members were free from the shackling confidence and supply agreement that forced them to vote to put taxes up on low-income people and as soon as they had a free choice they abandoned the Government, within its first week in the House, because they know that this is unfair. I acknowledge the M\u0101ori Party for that. I think it is great that it is voting against this bill, because it is bad for ordinary people. This Minister must take a call, because I know that she is a believer in the parliamentary system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EWe have heard some maiden speeches this week. Those speeches tell us what people are really going to be like in politics. I want to quote to the Minister her own maiden speech from 17 November 2005; members will be interested in this. She said \u201CIt is an absolute privilege to be part of our parliamentary process. It is also a huge responsibility\u2014a responsibility that I take very seriously. I hope that when it comes to my valedictory speech,\u201D\u2014that will be in November 2011\u2014\u201CI will be able to say I exercised that responsibility well, with integrity, with enthusiasm, with soul, with spirit, and with my arsenal still intact.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EThis Minister is using her arsenal today to ram down the rights of working people in New Zealand. She does not have the integrity, the soul, or the spirit that she talked about in her maiden speech to get up to defend the parliamentary process that she was so pious about just 3 years ago, as quoted in Hansard, when she was asked what her real views were. Now that she has got the car, the job, the house, the warrant, and the staff, all those things do not matter. The National Party reverts so quickly to type. We now know that she did not mean what she told the House when she talked about her great respect for the parliamentary process that she wanted to treat with integrity, soul, and spirit so she could leave with her arsenal still intact. We now know that she did not mean any of that; or she is being muzzled and is not allowed to defend legislation that we were not told would be in the first 100 days. It has not been to a select committee and she has only bothered to get up on her pins three times to defend it. She is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u0022767ddda682e84b66b09ca2c32da9b927\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022767ddda682e84b66b09ca2c32da9b927\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on clauses 1 and 2. We Labour members find ourselves in an extraordinary position: none of the many questions we put to the Minister in the chair last night\u2014Kate Wilkinson\u2014in the debate on Parts 1 and 2 have been answered. Those questions might have been answered had the Government allowed this bill to go to a select committee. If it had allowed the Opposition, the media, and the people of New Zealand to have their say on this bill, then maybe we would not be demanding so many answers from the Minister of Labour, who is ramming this bill through the House under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EShe is ramming it through before Christmas, although National said that it would not be put through before Christmas. This bill does not come into force until 1 April next year. There is no need for this rush. Rather than the Minister sitting there as though she has been struck deaf and mute all of a sudden, she should get to her feet and answer some of our questions. It was her decision to ram it through, and now she sits there as though somehow she has no obligation to the people of New Zealand, despite drawing a quarter of a million dollars in salary from them. I think it is an absolute disgrace that the first acts of this new Government are to raise taxes for low-income families, destroy their retirement income earnings, and take away their rights at work in their first 90 days of employment. The Minister does not feel that that is important enough for her to get to her feet and answer some simple questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister how she is going to police this legislation. How is she going to know the reason why someone was fired, when employers do not have to give the worker they have just fired a reason? The Minister said she has put human rights protection in this bill. As my colleague Annette King raised, how is she going to know that an employer who says \u201CYou look like you are not enjoying the job, so off you go.\u201D does not have a far nefarious reason at the back of his or her mind for letting that person go? What if an employee turned up to the staff Christmas party with a partner, and the partner turned out to be of the same sex as the employee? The employer suddenly realises that the person he or she has hired is gay, and does not like that, so the employee is told \u201CI\u2019m sorry but you don\u2019t fit in here. You don\u2019t seem to be enjoying the work you are doing.\u201D I seriously want the Minister to get to her feet and explain to the workers and the people of New Zealand how this bill will be policed. She has just opened a huge door to discrimination against many different groups in this country. She got up on her feet and talked about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022013aeeb5a6e7489692a6f419dd8e9439\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We are dealing with the title part of the bill. I am asking that you ask the speakers over there, who include a long-standing member of the House, to actually speak to the title and to focus on the title part of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224affa60fd3054753a7982e1802d539dc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: There already are rulings about what people may speak to, even when bills have been to select committees. Of course, the Standing Orders changed in recent years; previously, the title clause was taken at the start of the Committee stage, and now it is taken at the end of the Committee stage. That is because the debate on the preliminary clause has become a summing up of what has gone before. There already are rulings that indicate that people speaking to these clauses may bring together what has been raised before. On top of that, there are a range of Speakers\u2019 rulings that where a bill has not been to a select committee and has not had the scrutiny of a select committee, then the title debate and the preliminary clauses debate can be wider in scope than would otherwise have been the case. The effect of those two combined sets of rulings is that the preliminary clause debate in the Committee stage is a fairly broad debate where one can cover the scope of the debate and of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e863da6fa68433c91b3cbaa3016c41b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The point is made that people should be speaking to the title and the commencement date. In normal circumstances, one would expect that debate to be a relatively narrow debate. I accept the submission of Dr Michael Cullen that in these circumstances the Chair should be slightly more lenient than would otherwise be the case. But I encourage members to focus on the title, the commencement, and the summing up aspect, because this is the last time the House in Committee will have the opportunity to speak on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba5467086ff643999c913c22e55caf0b\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: For the peace of mind of Mr Chris Tremain, how about this: given that employers do not have to give any reason, maybe we should call the bill the \u201CIt\u2019s Not You, It\u2019s Me Bill\u201D. Maybe that would be an adequate description, because workers are not going to have any idea why they have been fired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe Minister in the chair in one of her speeches in the first or second reading said how great this legislation would be for young people starting out on their working lives, as if they should be grateful for it. I ask the Minister in the chair how they will know what they have done wrong, if employers do not have to put down their expectations of the job before those young people start, and do not have to tell them why they were fired. What will that mean for those young workers when they go to their next job, and the employer asks them what their last job was and why they left? What are they going to say? Do they say that they do not know, because there is a law in this country that says that employers do not have to tell employees why they are being fired? It could have been because the employers did not like the colour of their skin. It could have been because the employers did not like who the employees were married to. It could have been for a perfectly legitimate reason, but the employees do not know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b263d85ac664922aed2d0a73c11b099\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Vote Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223647698c0c6e42f0957d0fc4a12732c3\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: It could have been because that person votes Labour. It could have been because he or she is a member of the union. It could have been because the employee was organising staff members of the workplace to join the union. The employee just does not know, because the Minister has deliberately drafted this legislation so that the employee does not have to be told the reason why he or she was fired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe second question I have for the Minister is why she has told two stories to the public on this bill. She went out and said that the public did not need to be worried about this legislation because it is not Wayne Mapp\u2019s bill; it is a different bill. But in this House she said that it did not need to go to a select committee because it is Wayne Mapp\u2019s bill. I want to know which one of those two stories is true, and, therefore, which one of those two stories she was misleading the public with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u00229de7d4041d3547bc8f79a62b7485f3dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229de7d4041d3547bc8f79a62b7485f3dc\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u0022eedf2d1c834a4b83b88ecfbfb16e675a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eedf2d1c834a4b83b88ecfbfb16e675a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E To quote a distinguished member of this House, it is an absolute privilege to be part of this parliamentary process, and a huge responsibility. It is just unfortunate that it is a bit more of a responsibility than usual, because we do not have a select committee process for the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. Like my colleagues, I ask myself what is so urgent about this bill that we have set aside the normal constitutional processes that colleagues ostensibly hold dear. We could call this bill the \u201CGoodbye to Diversity Bill\u201D. It rather sticks in my craw that Mr Bakshi, the poster boy for the Sikh community\u2019s new-found love affair with the National Party, is going to be voting for it. What if someone with a turban does not meet the cultural predilections of their employer? It will be: \u201CGoodbye! Hasta la vista! You\u2019re gone!\u201D, and no questions asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EAt the moment in the existing law there are grounds for termination of employment, provided that they are fair and subject to due process. It is not like one cannot fire someone. It is not like there are no protections for employers. This bill makes it perfectly all right for a sexual predator to dismiss a young female employee who decides she does not want his advances. So will we call this the \u201CProtection for Predators Bill\u201D? This bill is insane. It is unethical and it is immoral, and if this is part of the new Government\u2019s arsenal, then I would not want to look too closely at the rest of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EIt is a matter of deep regret that this \u201CGoodbye to Diversity Bill\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252173a15042c4020b54418dd27621d36\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Aw!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201d698e7a7dc455786cb98bc51ee3f3f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member from the Canterbury Plains may not be big on diversity. She may think that everybody sits behind a tractor or a haystack. Guess what? I came from the Canterbury Plains way back too, so I understand. Diversity in Canterbury, when I was growing up, was when the Catholics played on the back line of the local rugby team and the Protestants were in the forward pack. That was what diversity meant to us. We thought multiculturalism was a joint social between the two youth groups. That is the perspective of that member. I say to members that the War of the Roses is over, and now modern diversity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e70783d5d00d4d4fb13d750c0847ce0b\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb9c210f000a4c9abafb0e79281748c2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: There is Nikki Kaye, whose main claim to fame is doing a lot of door-knocking in Auckland Central. Well, good on her; it is good to see hard work. But Nikki Kaye will have to answer to the multicultural electorate of Auckland Central about why she has put the predilections of predators ahead of the human rights of new New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWhat about migrants? What about people who are a little bit different? What about people of different religions? How will the Exclusive Brethren feel about hiring a Hindu? They are not known for their religious tolerance, are they? They do not even take on the non - Exclusive Brethren. They do not even have a window in their meeting houses in case they see the polluting outside world. How will they feel if someone like dear Mr Bakshi rocks up and asks to work in their small business? Perhaps they will not treat such a person as well as they could do, and this bill gives them licence for this. It is reprehensible, it is disgusting\u2014disgusting that we are rolling back human rights in the first week of this pathetic excuse for a Government. It is absolutely disgusting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EWhat about the \u201CThis Bill Substitutes for an Economic Strategy Bill\u201D for a title? I ask members opposite where the strategy is. What have they done to turbocharge our economy in their first week on the job? Let us think about that. They have just nixed the incentive for innovation. They have just undercut the best savings vehicle New Zealand has ever had since Muldoon canned the last one, and now they are topping it off by making labour markets more sticky. What do we mean by sticky labour markets? The Government has talked about making it easier for employers to hire and fire, and it has put up the argument that some employers have been reluctant to take on new people. Well, that is very unlikely to be the case, because employers are driven by their business needs, not by some sort of employment programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022 data-id=\u00226f1c00ae75f745dc9cd4199603167075\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f1c00ae75f745dc9cd4199603167075\u0022\u003ESU\u2019A WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to take this call, and I congratulate you on your elevation to the new office that you now hold. The title of the bill is the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, and I say that title is very deceptive. The communities that are listening to this debate will be wondering what the big deal is, and thinking this is simply just a minor adjustment to the Employment Relations Act. But the big deal is that this bill removes a basic and fundamental right that workers currently have. The sad thing is that 2 days ago we celebrated the 60th anniversary of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and here we are, under a National-ACT-M\u0101ori Government, sending a message to the rest of the world that New Zealand no longer respects workers\u2019 rights. That is the kind of message we are sending with this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022054db084a0c24b5c878108423b004bde\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: What about all the other OECD countries in the world\u2014they have sent that message as well, have they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290cd404b4ba244d79810cc004ad71aa2\u0022\u003ESU\u2019A WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: That is the kind of message we are sending, I say to the junior whip. That is the kind of message we are sending to the rest of the world, and that is quite sad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EThe Minister in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, has stated in a ministerial release that this bill is about opportunities. I ask, opportunities for whom? How many opportunities will be created as a result of this bill? Sixteen thousand people lost their jobs a month ago. How many jobs will be created out of this bill? I ask whether the Minister can answer that question. How many jobs will this bill create? There is no response from the Minister. I say the only opportunity that will be created from this bill is the opportunity for unscrupulous employers to fire at will any new worker who comes on board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EAnd here is the thing. I listened to the Speech from the Throne, and there were nice words that came from there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209f09cff6c4d4ca49617ec7ae3fd5879\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Inclusive Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229f3e90ff30a4e3ca0c59a146ea76657\u0022\u003ESU\u2019A WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014inclusive Government, mana-enhancing, working relationships, growth in our economy, and higher incomes. How will this bill create all that, when workers will have to compete for jobs? When workers compete for jobs in bad economic times, it means that wages will go down. It means that wages will be driven down. This bill reminds me very much of the old National attitude and behaviour towards workers: attack the workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EBut more particularly, the Government is targeting under this legislation\u2014and I quote from the press statement released by the Minister\u2014long-term unemployed people, young people, people returning to work after absences for child rearing or sickness, people with disabilities or mental illness, migrants, people with overseas qualifications, and people with convictions. Those are young people who are fresh out of school and new to the job site. They do not have any rights under the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. Those are women returning to the workforce and new employees wanting to make ends meet. They lose their right to take a personal grievance under this law. Those are migrant workers, M\u0101ori workers, and Pacific workers, and if the constituents of M\u0101ngere, the community that I am proud to represent, are listening to this debate, they will say they are grateful they did not vote for a National-ACT Government. Those are the communities that this bill targets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister of Labour, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, how the rights of the people in those communities will be protected when they can be sacked for any reason without notice, without explanation, and without protection. I ask, who will protect workers when an unscrupulous employer sacks them because they do not understand the language that is spoken by the workforce, or because they wear a turban, or because they pray in the bathroom, or because the employer does not like the colour of their eyes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4e8118567394f688e6ca638b92dc780\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4e8118567394f688e6ca638b92dc780\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2d92057627f41b6a17ebc56d92f266a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2d92057627f41b6a17ebc56d92f266a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We are sitting under urgency to consider the Employment Relations Amendment Bill that comes into force on 1 April, and I ask why. It is because this is part of the 100 days of action. The 100 days of action comes to an end on 25 February, and the House meets on 10 February for 2 weeks, so, basically, anything that needs to be done to legislation in the 100 days of action needs to be done this week or next week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ELet us refer to the Speech from the Throne, which stated that the Government is \u201Cgoing for growth\u201D\u2014a slogan recycled from Ruth Richardson. What is the secret of growth? What is the National Party\u2019s answer in this 100 days of action? It is a $10-a-week tax cut for some people, the ability for employers to deny employees the right to a personal grievance claim if they are dismissed within 90 days of employment, and for teachers it is having to tell parents whether little Jimmy is in the second or fourth stanine in reading. Most of the members opposite will not even know what a stanine is, so we will try to enlighten them about that later on today or tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThis adds up to \u201Cgoing for growth.\u201D This is the growth strategy of the National Party. Temporary and part-time employees could be taken on after coming out of prison. I do not know how they will get out of prison under National Party policy, because they have been told they will be staying in for ever. Eventually they are finally let out of prison, at 73 years old, and \u201Crock up\u201D, as Mr Key would say, to their local baker and say: \u201CCan I do some dough for you?\u201D. The employer will take them on for 90 days, and then will tell them: \u201CSorry, we don\u2019t actually like the bread you made and we don\u2019t feel you are happy here, and, anyway, you only get crumbs if you are a member of the Labour Party, so you are going to leave the job.\u201D And this is going to turbocharge the New Zealand economy\u2014[Interruption] Turbocharge, I say to Mr Bakshi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ENo reason for dismissal has to be given. All this bill does is take away the right to a personal grievance claim. It does not create a provision for a probationary period\u2014that is already in the law. It actually makes the law more rigid. It confines the probationary period to 90 days. That is what the bill does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EI take the case that my colleague Mr Cosgrove put forward of the person working in a sawmill who does not like the safety procedures. We now have a whole new slogan from National\u2014it is now \u201Ca hand off, not a hand up.\u201D It used to be \u201Ca hand up, not a hand out.\u201D Well, if employees are not prepared to have their hand off, they cannot keep their job. An employer will say to an employee: \u201CYou are clearly not happy here. You do not like the idea of having a bleeding stump\u2014you had better go somewhere else, where you are not at risk of that happening to you.\u201D That is the National Party approach to this area, and it is going to turbocharge the New Zealand economy. People know that their kid who is 6 years of age is in stanine 2. Is that going to make something turbocharge the economy? Maybe, in 25 years\u2019 time. People know they can have their jobs taken away from them in 90 days. That is not going to happen so much in highly skilled jobs, where people have bargaining power. It is going to happen in the unskilled jobs. And this will turbocharge the economy? I ask what else will turbocharge it. Well, people might get a $10-a-week tax cut next year, and that is going to turbocharge the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EAfter 9 years in Opposition, this is all that the intellectual giants of the National Party have managed to think up between them as an economic strategy. It is no wonder that Gerry Brownlee has been the secret master behind National Party planning, strategy, and tactics both in the House and in terms of policy over that period of time. Meanwhile, over in the cathedral, Mrs Tolley is still in sanctuary, still not wanting to come out and admit the fact that she got it wrong, that teachers will be covered by these changes, and that small rural schools will have trouble retaining teachers. Teachers will not want to be put at risk of being sent down the road again because, oh my God, here they are in the back country in Hawarden or somewhere like that in Canterbury, and their employer has found out that they voted Labour in the 1984 election, and that is not something teachers should be allowed to do. After all, we all know what happened when the local teacher was the one Labour Party voter in the area, and the witch-hunt that went on to find out who that Labour Party voter was within that area. Now that employer will be able to tell that teacher: \u201CSorry about that. Down the road. Off you go. That\u2019s the finish of your job. We will turbocharge the economy by bringing somebody else in.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002245d0c0564ba0466ca35f77f4c010b934\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245d0c0564ba0466ca35f77f4c010b934\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a copy of a DVD showing Anne Tolley promising that teachers would be excluded from this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228098f64af77847f692ce38c7057b4eca\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c75ba3b01d7544ed86af468c1c58ab06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c75ba3b01d7544ed86af468c1c58ab06\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002224c8f5aa76d4415bae6553e2d2b10049\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a9607077f6554afd84e5228f1587c637\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000087\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 1 in the name of David Garrett to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000088\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question that the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd85f5afa0764d659415c2f6dc6fa3bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd85f5afa0764d659415c2f6dc6fa3bb\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am sorry to have to intervene, but can I just be clear that the National Party is aware of what this amendment is\u2014to bring the implementation date forward to 1 March\u2014and that it is voting for it. The reason I raise this, of course, is that the vote result is not declared at this point and it is possible for a party to correct its vote. The National Party at no stage has indicated that it is supporting an amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229114bb37c7ad4239887b19708476355a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has the opportunity to clarify the matter, but as there is no call to clarify it I must accept that it understands exactly what the amendment is. I will therefore continue the vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002284530bc86a65419282f42bd18e3e593e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221ae831bbd467494fa112156a06542cdd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000091\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000092\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002296663d7d19424eb2bdbc6f9a419def16\u0022\u003ERecommittal\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u002214b7aa898fcc496993a4260d11a5ac48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214b7aa898fcc496993a4260d11a5ac48\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be recommitted to reconsider clause 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b8661dd838ba4f86836e9969e2e9364d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e10bc9ad7fab40399a5ba606adcfd952\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022016feecfefe546b391f0c39fd2920d6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022016feecfefe546b391f0c39fd2920d6d\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a third time. I firstly thank the officials for their hard work, advice, and efforts in bringing the bill to this stage, to the third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe Government is committed to improving employment opportunities for all New Zealanders. The proposed trial period enacted by this bill will allow greater certainty and flexibility for small to medium businesses when it comes to taking on staff. Additionally, employment opportunities will increase for some marginalised groups of employees who are struggling to break into a crowded market. This bill has been drafted carefully and reasonably, and with caution, to ensure there are safety mechanisms so that workers are not exploited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EI remind the House that we have specifically retained the provisions of good faith. The legislation is subject to the overriding principles of good faith. Perhaps I should remind the House what good faith actually means. Good faith requires the parties to an employment relationship to be active and constructive in establishing and maintaining a productive employment relationship, in which the parties are, among other things, responsive and communicative. Good faith requires an employer to provide to affected employees access to information relevant to the continuation of their employment and the decision, and to give an opportunity to comment. This bill expressly protects and is subject to that overriding provision of good faith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe trial period under this bill is also subject to agreement; it is not compulsory. It is subject to the prospective employee wanting to be given a go\u2014wanting to be given the opportunity\u2014to get his or her foot on the employment ladder. This bill is subject to existing protections under human rights legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b025c96083bc4d0d9711f312e304b8c9\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Like what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202a84624ac114e0bb5f7f58ce51b8242\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014like racial discrimination, sexual discrimination, and duress. It is also subject to the protections afforded by health and safety legislation. It is subject to those protections. And the provision of mediation is available through the Department of Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to note that the editorial in the Otago Daily Times this morning said: \u201CNew law creating opportunities\u201D\u2014and that is exactly what it is meant to do. About objections, the editorial states: \u201CSuch objections, however, are astray\u201D\u2014objections are astray\u2014\u201Cbecause the new law is moderate, sensible and, crucially, will encourage the creation of jobs.\u201D I repeat: \u201Cthe new law is moderate, sensible, and, crucially, will encourage the creation of jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe editorial goes on: \u201Cseveral safeguards have been added without undermining the basic intent. \u2026 This move is especially important in a recession, hence the urgency with which National is proceeding.\u201D These are the words of the Otago Daily Times editorial. It goes on: \u201CEmployers at the moment will be particularly wary of risk because an employment mistake can decimate a small business even at the best of times.\u201D But it goes further than that; it states: \u201CImagine the benefits if just 2% of the many thousands of small businesses in this country decided that they could now take the gamble on an extra staff member.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThe editorial further goes on: \u201CAt present, many small business owners say it is better not to employ anyone than take the risk of a dud. Yes, there are dismissal procedures under current employment law\u2014and even a Clayton\u2019s probation provision in the Employment Relations Act.\u201D We have heard throughout the debate that we already have a probation period. Yes, but this is a Clayton\u2019s probation period, and now we have a true trial provision that will give employees the opportunity to get their foot in the employment door.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EWhy have we limited the legislation to small businesses\u2014those with fewer than 20 employees? Again the Otago Daily Times states: \u201CBut what small business person has the time, energy, expertise, and expense to go through the difficult processes? And how much damage has been done in the meantime? The new law, as well as improving overall job creation prospects, promises to enhance the outlook for those who find it especially hard to get a job; the young, immigrants, those out of the workforce for a long time, minorities.\u201D Those are not our words; those are the words of the Otago Daily Times editorial this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EWe are aware that there are some unscrupulous and unfair employers, but bad employers are likely to ignore many of the current rules, anyway. And I say that in relation to those unfair, bad, unscrupulous employers, we will condemn any employer who is unscrupulous and unfair, and who abuses this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af83d3f5851b449a9c68b57d4b61adf7\u0022\u003EThis bill is a win-win for employers and for employees. It is not about taking away rights; it is about giving opportunities. This bill protects the rights of employees. It gives businesses the confidence to take on new employees. The bill dramatically reduces the compliance costs associated with recruitment and dismissal for small to medium businesses, and the compliance costs for all businesses resulting out of trivial and unnecessary personal grievance actions. This is a moderate, considered, fair bill, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002212721ed19cec4490ad715d7cecec6e84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212721ed19cec4490ad715d7cecec6e84\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen unusual approaches, but a Minister who cannot make it to 8 minutes on a controversial bill on a third reading is just pathetic. To try to fill the time until the bell rings with a bit of clapping to make it look like she knew what she was talking about is even more pathetic. But I must say it was very good to see Kate Wilkinson on her feet. It was good to see Kate Wilkinson on her feet because during the Committee stage she appeared to be pinned to her chair. In fact, there was a disgraceful episode of Gerry Brownlee telling her not to speak\u2014an outrage; a senior member of the House clearly breaching privilege in front of many, many members by telling a Minister not to speak. I am not going to test you, Mr Speaker, through the formal process, but you should know that under your watch members of the Government are blatantly breaching the traditions of this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EIn another way traditions have been breached, and that is that there has always, in the past, been a focus on having controversial bills\u2014significant bills\u2014go to select committee, especially in the employment relations area. Did this Government have the backbone to do that? Did it have the backbone to do what was recommended by the New Zealand Herald\u2014its rag, its cheer squad\u2014that the bill be sent to the select committee? Business New Zealand suggested that it should go to the select committee to get it improved, but did the Government take any notice of that? No it did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EIt was almost unbelievable in the final stages of the Committee process, when an ACT amendment, on which the Minister had not commented, was voted for by the National Party. I must say that at that time, it is fair to say, between the Minister and the Government whips there was a lot of confusion. They were not clear whether they should have been voting for it\u2014it was back and forth, yes and no, and \u201CI am not sure.\u201D In the end National voted for it. I say that never, never in my life in this House\u2014and it has been quite a long time\u2014have I seen a non-Government amendment accepted by a Minister in the chair without comment. We do it occasionally. It happens\u2014often to improve bills. This is a substantive amendment. It is an amendment that will cost the Minister\u2019s department money. An enormous amount of overtime will have to be worked over Christmas, bureaucrats hired and paid overtime during that time, boosting the economy of Wellington central, as a result of this bill being brought forward, to get the call centre set up, and to get all the work done that will be necessary for the bill\u2019s implementation. Was there a comment from the Minister? No, there was not. National members accepted that amendment in a very confused way because it was not clear whether they were going to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EBut there were some amendments during the Committee stage that National members did not accept, which were pretty simple, such as giving people notice in writing. So an employer who does a \u201Cdon\u2019t come Monday\u201D has to give the employee a note rather than just say \u201CDon\u2019t come Monday.\u201D That was refused by the National Party. Also refused was an amendment requiring people to give reasons for termination of employment. No! There is no requirement here whatsoever to give reasons. The member says that people can go to the Human Rights Commission, but how can a person go to the Human Rights Commission on a gender issue, a religious issue, or on an age issue if the employer does not have to say why he or she is sacking someone? How does one know? How does a person get to the Human Rights Commission? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003ENational members rejected an amendment that guarantees mediation. They said there was mediation but, as we pointed out, the clause is very, very badly drafted. They rejected a clause that said that young employees or new employees should be given notice, given a warning, of the likelihood of this clause being triggered. They rejected that. They rejected a proposal to put that in the advertisements. They also rejected the amendment designed to stop making Anne Tolley a liar. The passing of the bill, if it does pass and is assented to, will make her a liar. I am not saying she is yet, and I will not say in the House that she is, but when this passes she will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EWhat I want to do\u2014because the National Party was not prepared to table the DVD under the Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 rulings allowing visual aids\u2014is use a visual aid, which is a video. It is a video of Anne Tolley promising\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad083495e3de488da24436e5c6ff8155\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Good one, Trev. Going well, eh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eaf8f570762440ba5c279a4702b2aa1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is all right; the public can hear it. The public know that Anne Tolley has told teachers right around the country that they will be excluded from this legislation. But to be fair to Kate Wilkinson, I point out that she did say before this debate that Anne Tolley was wrong. Was she prepared to say in this House that Anne Tolley was wrong? Was she prepared to be honest in here the way she was honest outside?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207a8e5b8a1da4bd581ca682b5786f61a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5a891f38caa4a54b106fb0b12b90a23\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Kate Wilkinson was not prepared to be honest in this House in the way that she was outside.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b417ee1d00ef484a95d5bda30ff9e46e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286ed45704dc04e2ebbf2bf7c7c35d522\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am not saying she was dishonest. All I am saying is that she did not have the backbone to stand up in this House and say in here what she said outside, which is that this legislation made Anne Tolley wrong, and she will be a liar when it passes. Clearly, Kate Wilkinson did not say that, but Anne Tolley will be a liar when it is passed. The Labour Party moved an amendment, basically to save face for Anne Tolley, to make her not a liar, and to ensure that that does not occur in the future. Unfortunately, members of the National Party did not care about Anne Tolley\u2019s reputation in the way that people on this side of the House do. We take Parliament seriously. We think that this House should not make people liars, and if it can be avoided we like to avoid it. We tried very, very hard, but the National Party did not care for Anne Tolley\u2019s reputation, and therefore they rejected the amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThere is absolutely no reason for this legislation to go through now. The way it is framed at the moment, it applies from 1 March. There would have been no problem whatsoever sending it to a select committee. The committee could have considered it in late January, reported it back when the House comes back, and then passed it, if the Government still had the backbone to do that after it heard all the evidence. The Government was not prepared to hear the evidence, because it knows that what would occur is what happened when Dr Mapp\u2019s probationary period bill went to a select committee. His bill was rejected by Parliament on the evidence. When people got the evidence of the young people who have already, under current legislation, been badly treated, people knew that not having the rights of appeal, not being able to go further than mediation\u2014and even mediation is doubtful\u2014is something that would just not be acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EPeople in New Zealand accept probationary periods. They are in the law, and I think they are a good thing. I have helped people get probationary periods in the past as a way of getting into jobs, and they can be a good thing. But those people have always had protection, and this bill strips away that protection from people who are having probationary periods or trials in jobs, and it puts the power in the hands of employers. I say that for most employers, that will not matter. Most employers are good employers. Most employers are very reasonable. But the scumbag employers\u2014people like the Exclusive Brethren, whom Kate Wilkinson is so proud to represent\u2014will be the people who will take advantage of this legislation and sack young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022 data-id=\u002202b3de5198a448d7b2126f519178d5bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202b3de5198a448d7b2126f519178d5bc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members\u2014[Interruption] When I am on my feet members will cease their interjections. Before I call the next member I want to refer to an issue raised by the Hon Trevor Mallard. When he suggested that there had been improper behaviour in a member seeking to influence another member, he inappropriately suggested that that was a matter of privilege. I will not have members raising in the Chamber issues of privilege, and I just alert the member to that. In fact, if members look at Speaker\u2019s ruling 174/5, they will see that Speaker Harrison made it very clear that there is nothing improper in members seeking to influence other members as long as no implication of bribery or improper practice is involved. I just mention that to members. I also say that this is a debate where members feel very strongly about the issues\u2014and that is very important; it will be a robust debate\u2014but the Hon Trevor Mallard walked down a very fine line within the Standing Orders. I do not like interrupting members, so I urge members to be careful not to breach the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022 data-id=\u002239558e20ce0d449a8068f3c0a5782886\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239558e20ce0d449a8068f3c0a5782886\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E One of the issues that the other side has never really grasped is that 90 days as a trial period is at the moderate end of what occurs in the OECD. I guess members opposite would object if the trial period were 30 days or 1 week. They would object on ideological grounds. They have a totally blinkered approach to this issue even though they know that New Zealand is one of only two countries in the OECD that does not have a proper probationary period where the full personal grievance processes are triggered. They know that. They also know that they have to be seen to do something. I guess they cannot just sit in their offices signing their Christmas cards. So they say: \u201COh, well, I suppose we have to show our allegiance with the union movement. We have to be able to tell Mr Little that we did our bit.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003ESo Labour members have come down to the House and spent all their time hyperventilating and pretending that some sort of industrial dark age is about to be visited on us, even though they know that this is actually a very moderate measure. That is why the Otago Daily Times says it is moderate and sensible. Those members know that, but they have to pretend to take a different approach. So we have heard all sorts of absurd hyperventilating, as if that would give some substance to their objection, but all it has really done is make them look ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EThe public have had the opportunity to judge the Opposition and the absurd approaches it is taking to this legislation. One of the odd things, I have to say, about this whole process is the spectacle of the Leader of the Opposition taking call after call as if he is some kind of new backbencher who has to establish his reputation. I say to the Leader of the Opposition that that is not really the way to have any long-term future, but I guess that is why everybody is calling him \u201CPhil-in\u201D\u2014and he has been demonstrating that here, day by day. He thinks that the best thing he can do is rally all the troops, make sure all the seats are filled, and make sure he is with the team. I wonder what some of those members are really thinking about this. Perhaps they are thinking \u201CIs this really the issue we want to be going into Christmas on? Is this really the issue we want to say we stood strong on? Is this really the issue we made sure the Parliament was held to account on?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EI want to say just a couple more things. This issue was comprehensively debated in the select committee process on the bill that I put forward 2\u00BD years ago. As a result of those submissions this bill has been introduced in the way it has been. So I remind members of two things. Firstly, the mediation process is available. We have given that assurance. It is already part of the law and it does not need further amendment. That was one of the outcomes of the select committee hearing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EThe second thing I remind members of is the issue of teachers. This is a voluntary measure. When I listened to delegations from teachers, I asked whether it was realistic that a collective agreement involving the New Zealand Educational Institute and the Post Primary Teachers Association would include probation provisions. The answer, logically, is that it will not, and that is effectively what the Hon Anne Tolley was saying. We understand the logic of the situation; it is just a pity that Mr Mallard does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003EI close on the point that although the 90-day trial period is voluntary, it is also about opportunity\u2014opportunity for immigrants, opportunity for young people, and opportunity for people who have been out of the workforce for some time. It is just a pity that the Opposition does not understand how this bill will build opportunity. New Zealand was ranked 20th in the OECD when it came into office, and it is ranked 22nd in the OECD now. All the other countries in the OECD have this provision, and that has been part of their success in a flexible, modern 21st century economy. Why does the Opposition not understand that? I tell members opposite just to get with the programme. They should do something good for New Zealand by supporting policies that will promote growth. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2a577c274604d7b9f6cca221f40aa87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2a577c274604d7b9f6cca221f40aa87\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I am very disappointed with the Government\u2019s attitude to ordinary working New Zealanders, who will be disadvantaged by the passage of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I actually found it a bit galling to listen to the Minister of Labour, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, give us a lesson on good-faith requirements when she knows perfectly well that with this legislation she is exempting every employer from the obligation in the first 90 days of employment to treat an employee with good faith. An employer does not have to be open and honest with the employee, at all. Employers do not have to treat employees with respect and dignity, because they can simply let them go if they do not like them. \u201CDon\u2019t come Monday.\u201D is all employers have to say; they do not have to say a single other word. They do not even have to explain why the decision has been taken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EAnnette King used a very good example in her comments in the Committee stage. She said it would be very easy for an employer to shoulder-tap an employee and say: \u201CLook, I don\u2019t think you are very happy in your work. On that basis I think we\u2019ll just let you go.\u201D That is what will happen. The problem is\u2014and the National Government has not acknowledged this at all\u2014that the provision covers a multitude of sins because the employer does not have to say what the real reason is. Let us look at people, for example, who do not mention that they are gay. An example was raised by, I think, the senior Opposition whip of a person who does not mention he or she is gay when hired, and suddenly in a conversation the employer finds out that the employee\u2019s partner is a male, or, in the case of a female, that her partner is female\u2014that is, that the employee has a same-sex partner and has had a civil union. All of a sudden this employer says: \u201CI don\u2019t think you are very happy in your work.\u201D The employer does not actually have to say what reason really lies behind the termination of employment, and can just say: \u201CI don\u2019t think you are very happy in your work. Don\u2019t come Monday.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EWhat if the employer is away on holiday and the manager has to bring in somebody on a trial period? When the employer comes back and finds out that the manager has hired a M\u0101ori, a Pacific Islander, an Asian, or a person with a disability\u2014somebody the employer has a deep sense of disquiet about and would not have hired\u2014what does the employer do? The employer says: \u201CActually, I don\u2019t think you are very happy in your job. Look, don\u2019t come Monday.\u201D That is the real concern that we have about this legislation: it will hide a multitude of sins. Clayton Cosgrove used the example of a worker asking for health and safety training, or for a guard for the saw at the sawmill. The employer will not say to the worker: \u201CI\u2019m sacking you for insisting on your rights to a healthy and safe workplace.\u201D; the employer will say: \u201CI don\u2019t think you are very happy in your work. Don\u2019t come Monday.\u201D That is all the employer has to say under this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Labour will look at whether this bill should be extended to apply to all work places; she has announced this morning that she will be giving consideration to that recommendation. I wonder whether the Minister has realised that the compliance costs for business will go up as a result of this legislation, as they did in the UK when legislation of a \u201Cdon\u2019t come Monday\u201D style was introduced. The UK legislation does exactly what the Minister\u2019s legislation does: it allows for exceptions under the Human Rights Act, such as sexual harassment, discrimination based on racial grounds, sexism, and all of those things. In actual fact, when there is a termination and the employer does not say what the reason for the termination is, people with genuine grievances try to assert that it was for one of those reasons. Therefore, a lot more cases are taken as a result of the change in the law in the UK, not fewer. I think the Minister will find that this will add to compliance costs because employers will have to prove that they did not terminate employment for one of those reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a0cf7de29c4f2e960ee67aa2bb4eec\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve gone very quiet!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227727fcd85ffa4ba9873500fa91ad31b1\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they have gone very quiet. They had not thought that this legislation might have the total reverse effect to that intended, and that employers will still get out the cheque book to pay off somebody because they do not want to experience the cost of going through the process, even though this bill was apparently designed to protect against that. The Minister has not really done her homework. The Government wants to look as if it has done some action on its action plan for 100 days, even though it forgot to mention this bill in its 100-day action plan. The Government has just thrown it into the mix and is pushing it through all of its stages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EIt is quite amusing that the Government has accepted the ACT Party\u2019s amendment. We know why the ACT Party moved that amendment. It is because the new Minister for Regulatory Reform, the Hon Rodney Hide, is from the ACT Party, and he has now allowed two bills to go through without an adequate regulatory impact statement. The only way the ACT Party could do anything to assist the new Minister\u2014its leader\u2014was to bring forward the implementation of the bill to 1 March, to make it look as if the bill could not be implemented in time if it was sent to a select committee, and to make the bill look a little more urgent. But I have never seen a Government vote for a tabled amendment from another party in that way\u2014without taking a single call on it. I have never, in the 18 years that I have been in Parliament, seen a Government vote for an amendment from another party without taking a single call on it. It is absolutely extraordinary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI also want to look at the question of who is really disadvantaged by this bill. I make the point\u2014as I did in the Committee stage\u2014that as a former trade union organiser I know there are many, many excellent employers. I dealt with many, many employers who treated their staff with the utmost respect and dignity and who supported their staff in an excellent way. But when the union got called in it was usually because something had gone terribly wrong. I thought I would mention one of the cases, because it struck me as one where it was difficult to determine whether there had been sexual harassment. This particular employer\u2014I could name the particular place, but I will not\u2014was having a few drinks at the end of the day; of course, our union covered the hospitality industry. One of his staff members joined in. He had a few of his mates there, and they were having a few drinks quite late at night. The employee made some comment and the employer said to her: \u201CYou need to lose weight.\u201D She said: \u201CI beg your pardon?\u201D. He said: \u201CYou should go home, take off all of your clothes, look at yourself in the mirror, and think about what other people look at.\u201D She decided that she was not happy in her work and that her employer was not very happy with her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EThat is what happens in the hospitality industry when people\u2019s weight fluctuates, they get pregnant, something happens in terms of their appearance, or they have an accident. I had a friend who had a major accident and had cuts on her legs. She could not wear pantyhose and her employer at the retail store where she worked said that she could not work without pantyhose on. I know these are individual, small examples but these are the people who will be affected by this bill. That is what will happen to those who have no ability to defend themselves against the requirement to have this clause included in their agreement. It will be a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D option. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003EI want to end on the question of young people. People going into their first job are entitled to know what is expected of them. Young people can be very vulnerable in their first job. As I said, I know I have used an extreme example, but it does happen. What happens to those young people in their first job can either set them back or set them on the pathway to a very successful career, making them a constructive part of the workforce. It is utter sophistry on the part of National to say that this legislation will help young people. National says that small-business people do not have to know how to manage their business, because they do not have human resource departments. But what about young people? Are they not entitled to a first job that gives them the ability to develop themselves into good employees? Is it not fair that they have support as they enter the workforce? That should not depend on the number of employees they work with. We all know what freedom of choice means when there is no equality of bargaining position, and we know that in this case freedom of choice will mean \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022 data-id=\u00221660c9483e90412e85a715ec9db4e33c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221660c9483e90412e85a715ec9db4e33c\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E As members will be well aware by now, the Green Party is totally opposed to the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. It is an affront to the rights of hundreds of thousands of New Zealand workers. The Council of Trade Unions estimates that around 100,000 workers, at any given moment, are in a position where they will be affected by the impacts of this legislation, and that over the course of a year the figure is likely to be around 700,000 workers. There is also the fact that in this age, people change jobs a lot more than they did in years gone by, which means that people will, over and over again, be affected by the fact that they are in the first 90 days of their employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThis is a disgraceful attack on workers\u2019 rights, at a time of rising unemployment and job insecurity. Sadly, we see every day now newspaper reports of jobs being lost. We have just had the report, over the last 24 hours, of what is happening in the manufacturing sector. We know that retailing is really under pressure\u2014and who knows what is going to happen there, once Christmas is over? The wood industry is being decimated around the country at the moment. We have had job losses just this week from the ANZ, the BNZ, Tritec Manufacturing, the Warehouse, and other employers, and a whole lot more jobs that we actually never even hear about are being lost. That means that the impacts of what will happen, once this legislation takes effect, will really be accentuated, because people who are unemployed and seeking work, of course, will be in this position\u2014if they are lucky enough to even get a chance at a job. This bill will make their situation even worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EWithin the people who will be affected, as the M\u0101ori Party has recognised, will be M\u0101ori, who are among the groups of people most affected by the bill. Once again I would like to say \u201CGood on you!\u201D to the M\u0101ori Party members for being willing, within just the first couple of days, to stand up to their new ally, the National Party, and their ally the ACT Party, and to just say no, they will not support this legislation. They are sticking to the principles they had when they earlier, in 2006, finally made the good decision to oppose Dr Mapp\u2019s bill at that time. It is great that the M\u0101ori Party members are sticking to that decision and understand how this bill will really affect their own people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EAnother group who will be disproportionately affected, of course, will be migrant workers, who often find it really difficult to get into the New Zealand workforce, and who are still, sadly, subject to a lot of racial prejudice in the workplace. Women too will be affected, and I note that just last night there was a press release from the Federation of Business and Professional Women. That is not a left-wing, radical trade union but a group of women who work in the business and professional community. The federation says this bill is a huge step backwards for New Zealand women. It is horrified that the bill is not going through the select committee process, when it is something that will impact on workers so adversely. The federation says: \u201CEmployers should have robust employment processes and administer them competently to ensure they employ the right person, rather than rely on being able to sack someone if they find they\u2019ve got it wrong.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EIn respect of young people, National promotes the myth that this bill will assist them to get work, and that somehow this measure will be great for the young people of this country, who do often find it hard to get their first chance in the workplace. In fact, the bill is likely to have the opposite effect of that on young workers. For example, those who get a job and are full of hope and enthusiasm because it is their big chance may then, within the first 90 days, for some reason or no reason at all find themselves out of the workforce. That is very damaging for people in their early years of employment, when they are just adjusting to the workplace and learning how it all works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThe National Government has, for some reason, talked a lot about the benefits of this bill for ex-prisoners. That is quite ironic, as others from Labour have pointed out, given National\u2019s stand during the election campaign on law and order. But it is great that National does care about the fate of ex-prisoners and their need to find a place in the world of work. I cannot quite understand how National thinks this legislation will in any way particularly help ex-prisoners. In many cases now, ex-prisoners who find work do so only through a probationary employment situation, which is allowable under the existing employment law. In fact, the bill will do nothing for ex-prisoners. I think it will make matters worse for them, because employer prejudices against criminals and former criminals are very high, for natural reasons. This bill will make it easier for employers to follow their prejudices and get rid of people in that situation, if they want to, without having to give any reason at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EBut it is a myth that this bill will affect only categories of people like ex-prisoners, migrants, M\u0101ori, young people, and so on. This legislation can apply to anyone who takes a job with, or moves jobs to, an employer who has fewer than 20 staff. I note a release this morning from the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists\u2014again, an organisation that is not really at the low end of the workforce\u2014which is very concerned about the impact this legislation will have on doctors who, for example, work in places such as union and community health centres, and in other places for small employers. A doctor may move to a rural district. He or she may uplift the family and go to Kait\u0101ia to work in the local primary health organisation, and, for some reason, be dismissed within the first 90 days. The association is very concerned about the impact of this legislation on its sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EWe are only just beginning to hear such stories, because of the lack of process around this bill. If we had had a select committee process, I am sure we would have literally thousands of submissions telling us all these stories that are just starting to come out now. If we had had a select committee process, we would have had a chance to get really good advice on amendments to the bill. The Labour Party and the Green Party valiantly attempted last night to put up really good amendments that would have helped the bill, and some of them, I believe, National members could even possibly have supported, if they had the time to consider them. But when one rushes a process like this, one does not end up with good legislation. One ends up with a shambles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EAn area that the Green Party has been particularly concerned about, and where we put up a Supplementary Order Paper, was around the issue of what will happen to people who lose their jobs as a result of the \u201Cfire at will\u201D bill, then register at Work and Income, and are asked why they left their job. If there is any allegation of misconduct, they are subject to the 13-week stand-down. Now, that puts a whole heap of workers into a double-jeopardy situation. Not only are they losing their job for whatever reason; they are also possibly subject to 13 weeks without any income at all, at the whim of Work and Income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThe Minister, Ms Wilkinson\u2014and I am grateful for her clarity on this\u2014over and over again said that is not actually the Government\u2019s policy intention with regard to this measure. National did not support the Green Party\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper, which attempted to make it clear that that could not happen, but I invite the Minister to watch the situation with the Ministry of Social Development very, very closely\u2014as I will be watching it\u2014once this bill comes into effect, to ensure that the negative impacts that we have been talking about do not occur. I really hope that we will not see people who have been laid off as a result of this bill then enduring a 13-week stand-down. There is also a real problem area where people have an allegation of misconduct made against them, but then have no way to clear their name, because there is no access to the Employment Relations Authority or the Employment Court, and then it is up to Work and Income to make a judgment over whether the misconduct happened. Who knows! Work and Income case managers are not the people best placed to make those kinds of judgments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EOne of our biggest concerns around this bill, of course, is that no one, ultimately, is safe. Although at this stage its application is limited to workplaces of 20 or fewer people, there is a statement, which a number of us have referred to, in the explanatory note of the bill that, basically, the Government is looking in the future to extend this measure out to all workers. Now, that is something that everyone who cares about workers\u2019 rights in this country will have to be very conscious of in the months ahead. We are very concerned about this legislation being the thin edge of the wedge of a whole series of potential attacks on workers and beneficiaries. Of course, we hope that does not happen. We hope that the National Party does not go down that road. But I think we all have to be very alert. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThere are many, many reasons why this bill should not go through. For example, because the new Minister is Mrs Kate Wilkinson, I was reminded the other day of the human resources professionals meetings a number of us spoke at early in the election campaign. Mrs Wilkinson spoke about KiwiSaver; that became the only story about that meeting. But those of us who were there will remember that there were hundreds of human resources professionals in the room. That profession has done a lot of work in the last decade or so around uplifting employment practices and trying to improve how employers treat workers in the workplace, for the benefit of both employers and workers. I believe that this bill actually undermines all the good work that those human resources professionals have been doing, because they are about helping people to learn how to do jobs well, treating workers well, and explaining issues when things go wrong: if a worker is incompetent, does not turn up to work on time, or whatever the issue is. They actually work with people so that they become better at their job, rather than simply firing them at will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022672c3ec293e942ecb786c31353ea2cdf\u0022\u003EThis bill will not reduce unemployment. Instead, it will increase unemployment, as employers find it much easier to fire people for any reason or no reason at all. It is a disgraceful attack on the working people of this country, and it will not be forgotten when the next election comes around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a12201a6680a47efb7e95c41923744dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a12201a6680a47efb7e95c41923744dc\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E As a new member sitting here, this debate on this bill illustrates a division in attitudes between the two sides of the House. On the Government side, of which ACT is a part, the majority of employers and employees are seen as good people. Both parties to the employment relationship, by and large, try to make things work. In that world employees do not run off to the Employment Relations Authority or the Mediation Service at the drop of a hat, and employers do not sack people unless they really have to. The reason is that it is too much trouble, apart from anything else, and costs too much money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EIn the Opposition view of the employment relationship all employees\u2014sorry, it is still \u201Cworkers\u201D, is it not\u2014are downtrodden beings cowering under the yoke of the lord of the manor; all, or at least most, employers are willing to sack employees at the drop of a hat; many employers are sexual predators who put the word on young girls and if they turn them down they sack them; and many employers come to work and decide that they do not like the hairstyle or the eye colour of their employee that day, so they should go home. Well, in the real world\u2014and by the real world I do not mean down at whatever today\u2019s equivalent of Trades Hall is, but the workplace that most people inhabit\u2014the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but in my view it is a great deal closer to the Government\u2019s view of things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EAs for the amendment, I must confess as a new member to being totally bemused by the cacophony that erupted when it was passed. No doubt someone will explain to me later just why that was; I have been sitting here trying to work it out. From my perspective, if it is a good idea on 1 April it must be a better idea on 1 March. It makes logical sense to me and I think that other than those watching and listening at Trades Hall it will make sense to the rest of the country. To me, it is an example of the parliamentary process working. Amendments were put up on the Opposition side of the House, but they were unpersuasive. I modestly say that it seems mine was persuasive. I thought that was how Parliament and democracy supposedly worked. There seems to be no point in delaying the implementation of a good idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EWe have heard from the other side of the House extravagant predictions of what will happen. We did not quite get to predictions of suicide, but we were close. This reminds me of the predictions that followed the passing of the Employment Contracts Act in 1991: extravagant predictions of mass sackings and all those kinds of things, none of which came to pass. With the passing of time we no longer think that the removal of compulsory unionism is any big deal; it is just common sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EI am old enough to remember the last days of demarcation\u2014that is a word that no one has heard for a while. In 1983 I was a trades assistant at the methanol plant for an engineering company. Yes, some of us got our hands dirty. But I could not touch a strop, because that was riggers\u2019 work\u2014that was demarcation. We no longer think about that, because it is silly. It seems to me that before very long, curtailing personal grievances for a short period will no longer seem very unusual at all and will seem an entirely sensible idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EAs I said, I have been bemused and confused\u2014but I will work it out\u2014as to why there was such a cacophony. I guess it can be only that the Labour Party was performing for another audience outside this House. Someone asked why we should not bring it in tomorrow, or after the Royal assent\u2014I think it was the Hon Lianne Dalziel. Well, from my perspective that would be a good idea, but I understand that in these days\u2014where workers can no longer just read employment news in the paper\u2014some logistical exercises need to be gone through to set things up, so a period of delay is considered reasonable. The Government, being made up of reasonable people, would have rejected its being assented any earlier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that this is a very sensible idea. It will be seen as unremarkable very shortly, just as now is seen the idea that a trades assistant for a fitter cannot touch a strop because that is riggers\u2019 work. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022 data-id=\u00223b1f4bef672747edac10b24a9031655f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b1f4bef672747edac10b24a9031655f\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is a week of shame for this new Government\u2014a week of shame by turbocharge\u2014and today caps it all. What a great way to acknowledge human rights anniversaries! This is the 60th anniversary of the adoption in New Zealand of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. When other countries are enhancing human rights and working hard to make life better for people in their countries and their communities and for their workers, this country is taking a major step backwards\u2014a major step backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003ENational members say they are from the National Party and they are here to help. They are here to help vulnerable people, young people, older people, and ethnic people. They are here to help them by helping them to get sacked in their first 3 months of employment. They are somehow helping their employment rights! Members should look at Kate Wilkinson: Kate Wilkinson, who did not have the guts to stand up and defend this disgusting legislation; Kate Wilkinson, who said: \u201CNational is not the party of compulsion.\u201D That is the \u201CKate Wilkinson-ism\u201D: \u201CNational is not the party of compulsion.\u201D Well, let us look at it. If someone goes to a job and is told to take it or leave it, is that not compulsion? Job or no job\u2014is that not compulsion? If someone does take the job, within 3 months he or she may be gone\u2014no reason given, no discussion; that person has just gone. Is that not compulsion? I think it is a great way to indicate the National Party\u2019s understanding of workers in New Zealand, and where their needs, their rights, and their entitlements are. To me, it smacks of the 1990s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EThe world is coming into difficult and challenging times\u2014very difficult times. We in New Zealand now\u2014workers and all New Zealanders\u2014are coming to the ghastly realisation, after 1 week of debate in this House, that we have a totally inept and incompetent Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5292ef1a4684676bcfc5dc13f135c9c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a86aed41b4a45f9956ef6c0fcbee02a\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: And an unjust Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d828e2d7c24beeb80b9c06986769ec\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: And an unjust Government, as my friend and colleague Darien Fenton said. It is an absolutely unjust Government. Wayne Mapp\u2019s bill went to select committee. It was rejected big time by New Zealanders, it was rejected by that select committee, and it was rejected by the Parliament. So what did National do? There was no warning whatsoever to New Zealanders. Where was the media coverage on this? Where was this mentioned in the incoming Prime Minister\u2019s statement? Where was it when National did its deal with the poor old M\u0101ori Party? Where was it when National said: \u201COh, by the way, come in with us; we want your support.\u201D? Aside from slashing taxes\u2014and I do not think the M\u0101ori Party looked closely at that\u2014where was the warning to them about what National was going to do to workers in New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EWith no warning whatsoever National has belted this bill through in urgency, and the Minister does not even have the honour and the integrity to take a call and defend that Government\u2019s position\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228abdf65e2d0a400b94779b4648aa4619\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Or answer the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e37abc9ce7449efb8d97c535affa9e6\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or answer the questions\u2014or, in fact, give a response to the matter regarding Anne Tolley and what the true position is. It is not too late now; the Minister can stand, take a call, and explain what the true situation is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EThe most insulting thing to me\u2014and, I am sure, to my colleagues\u2014is National telling this House and all New Zealanders that this bill is about opportunity! It is about opportunity, and it is also a bill of compassion! It allows compassionate employers to be so visionary that they can see how unhappy their employees are before their employees can actually see it! They can say to them\u2014compassionately, and in a caring way: \u201CYou are just not happy in this job, and we are going to let you go.\u201D How often have we heard that statement: \u201CWe are going to let you go.\u201D? The compassionate employers in New Zealand will let you go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022779647589cc54d788e89f639b991db6c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: They will not let the Chairperson go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c57473355008468fbaa8066033a574ad\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: They are going to let these workers go. I thank Mr Power very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bb93988a35c44388a109257cb6eb071\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Here to help!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281d170080b354c90b5dec1ff44607b87\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is here to help! Who will this bill affect? National opposed Sue Bradford\u2019s bill. I acknowledge Sue Bradford and her youth workers bill. What happens to young people when they get a job? It might be in the hospitality industry, it might be office work, it might be in a service station\u2014there are all sorts of different jobs. As we know, that first experience in the workplace is very, very important. What happens to those young workers? They will start perhaps on a lower rate of pay, but they know that once they fulfil their 200 hours they will go on to $12 an hour. They will get this pay rise courtesy of Sue Bradford\u2014let us acknowledge the Green Party and Sue Bradford, and the Labour-led Government; they get that right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EBut what happens when they build up to their 200 hours? Let us acknowledge, firstly, that there are many good employers in this country, but this bill is not about giving rights to good employers; it is about giving rights to bad employers. What happens when employees build up to their 200 hours? It might be a full-time job, and they will be there in a few weeks, or, if it is part-time work, it might take nearer to 3 months. What happens just as they get there\u2014just as they are on that promise of getting $12 an hour, which is not a high wage but it is one that will make quite a difference to their incomes? Suddenly that worker will be let go. That compassionate employer will see that the worker is not happy, and that he or she can be let go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EIt could also be parents who have to take time out from their job. They might get into a job, and then one of their kids might be sick. The previous Government supported flexible working hours. Did the National Party do so? No, it did not. So mums or dads go into work and their child gets sick, and they say they need to take some time off\u2014it would be unpaid\u2014to take care of their child, perhaps for only a day or two. That might indicate to the employer that that worker is not really very happy in the job, and he or she just might have to be let go. It might be just taking breast-feeding breaks. The employer might realise that that is actually quite inconvenient, and he or she might be sure that that the mother is not really very happy taking those breastfeeding breaks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c31df408fa4390b2c0a69f3420236a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: She might have got pregnant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6570197b5de4e1ebb7ac7a5e504c286\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; she might have got pregnant. This bill is the dream of an employer with prejudice. The employer does not have to justify, in any way, why he or she is sacking a worker. It could be because English is not the worker\u2019s first language. It could be, as I said before, that someone is pregnant, breastfeeding, too young, or too old. It could be that the worker has too many family commitments. Or, and how often have we heard this, it could be that the worker is just not a company person. A worker might say: \u201CI\u2019m sorry, I can\u2019t stay tonight; I have to go home and look after the kids.\u201D That worker may then be told: \u201CYou\u2019re just not into the work culture.\u201D You just don\u2019t fit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244c0358b2741445882b4be852cea4c6c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member should restrain herself from using the word \u201Cyou\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264e62f254ec8465ca7d18d18bb1c74fb\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I also want to acknowledge the Equal Employment Opportunities Trust, which has produced a pamphlet with a great picture of a worker. The caption states that the worker has gone from inmate to workmate. The worker said: \u201CIf I had come out of prison and had no job, I would have gone back to the old crowd and done crime to make money.\u201D Well, what about this worker who gets a job, who has hope and aspirations again, and who is sacked a couple of months into the job? What does that do to that worker\u2019s self esteem, job prospects, etc?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022 data-id=\u00223b4cf2c2ff704faeb727e54f54bfab14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b4cf2c2ff704faeb727e54f54bfab14\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, kia ora t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare i t\u0113nei ata, kua rarauika mai ki roto i te Whare nei ki te w\u0101nanga i ng\u0101 take o te w\u0101. E te Kaihaut\u016B, koia te pai o t\u0113nei kirimana i waenganui i a m\u0101ua te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori me te R\u014Dp\u016B N\u0101hinara, he r\u0101 t\u014Dna, kotahi te k\u014Drero, he r\u0101 t\u014Dna kua rerek\u0113 te k\u014Drero. I t\u0113nei rangi, ko te mea tuarua te mea ka whakaarahia ake i t\u0113nei r\u0101. P\u0113nei taku k\u014Drero, i \u0113tahi rangi e \u014Drite ana te k\u014Drero o te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori me te R\u014Dp\u016B N\u0101hinara. I \u0113tahi w\u0101 kua rerek\u0113 te k\u014Drero. I te rangi kotahi, t\u0113r\u0101 pea koi nei te ara. Koi r\u0101. Hei whaiwhai haere i t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero me haere tonu ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D te w\u0101 poto. Te tikanga o t\u0113nei p\u012Bre, he tautoko i te hunga kua roa e noho ana i te koremahi me te rangatahi me te M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to us all, the House, gathered here this morning, to debate the business of the day. The good thing about this coalition between us, the M\u0101ori Party, and the National Party is that there will be days when we will be of one mind, and days when we will agree to disagree. The second option will apply today. Indeed, the situation could well change throughout any given day. But that is what the coalition between us is about, where we will work together some days, and against each other on other days. To pursue that line of thought, I will continue for just a little while longer. The purpose of this bill is to support those, as well as young people and M\u0101ori, who have been without work for a long period of time.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EI do not want to take too long a call. The purpose of this bill, from the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s perspective, is supposedly to assist the long-term unemployed, the young, and M\u0101ori\u2014the assumption being, I suppose, that our people are being done a favour by being given some expectant belief that there will be some benefits down the line. Our fear, however, is that the economic downturn we are facing will, in the near future, have long-term effects on the unemployed and the young, as well as on the new group of the middle-aged recently made redundant, the majority of whom are likely to be M\u0101ori. According to some k\u014Drero i roto i te reo M\u0101ori, t\u0113r\u0101 pea kua whiua te k\u016Bmara kua pirau; some might say\u2014and I am translating\u2014that we have been thrown a fermented k\u016Bmara. Drips from the roof have fallen on the k\u016Bmara, it has become wet, and it has become fermented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe Government is trying to convince us that this bill is a good deal, but to us this bill is no different from the one the M\u0101ori Party has referred to in the past as the \u201Cmini-Mapp bill\u201D, or, indeed, the 200-hour new-entrant legislation passed by the last administration. From our perspective, the 200-hour new-entrant legislation discriminated against the young. It was promoted by the Greens, and was taken over by Labour. We voted against that legislation and we got criticised by Labour for it. We are now voting against the legislation before the House, and look who is coming with us! The one thing I hope we can say is that we are being consistent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EWe opposed Mr Mapp\u2019s 90-day bill. We did support his bill\u2019s first reading, for the purpose of it being scrutinised by the select committee. Unfortunately, we are not able to do that at this point in time, because this bill is being dealt with under urgency. We would have hoped that that scrutiny would happen again, to give the public an opportunity to make submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EWe supported young workers in seeking their rights and ensuring that they were not discriminated against, and we were, unfortunately, criticised by Labour speakers. Darien Fenton criticised our stand in supporting rangatahi workers. In fact, she criticised us because we had principles. Well, that is a criticism we are happy to bear. At the time, we asked what was wrong with the notion that if a person does adult-type work, that person should get adult-type pay. We do not need a 200-hour new-entrant rate to prove that sort of stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EAs I said at the beginning of this short call, with the economic downturn heading our way, we believe that there is likely to be a huge pool of unemployed people. There will be a recycling of the pool of recently unemployed and redundant workers. The only opportunity, from the M\u0101ori Party perspective, that this bill offers is for unscrupulous employers to exploit the huge pool of vulnerable ex-workers. Many of these people are our people, and now is not the time for legislation that exploits one group of people, the vulnerable\u2014the people I spoke about yesterday. It is more a time to show some compassion and uphold some rights for those workers. That is what we call manaakitanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I simply say that the M\u0101ori Party will not support this bill. But, in line with the terms of our agreement with the National Party, we will be seeking ways in the future that we can work on legislation that allows the M\u0101ori Party to contribute to better legislation for the country. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222ef676b215274dc5b139ecadad01e7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022015af298861d4307bcf69e6f30838223\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222ef676b215274dc5b139ecadad01e7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022015af298861d4307bcf69e6f30838223\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I am glad of the opportunity to take a call in the third reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. This is my first time of standing up in this House in this new Government, so I thank New Zealand for the mandate they gave us, and say that we are humbled by that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222ef676b215274dc5b139ecadad01e7f4\u0022\u003EI stand up today and thank John Key, and in particular Kate Wilkinson, for believing in New Zealanders\u2014for taking back that mandate and having belief in New Zealanders and their abilities to get ahead. This is a great day for New Zealand. It is a great day for moving forward, and a great day for us to recognise the abilities, the talents, and the skills of New Zealanders. This is a day when we actually take back a belief in their abilities to get ahead and understand what this country is about. It is about reward for effort, it is about guts and determination, and it is about people standing up for themselves. It is about recognising that a person has a part to play in society\u2014an individual responsibility\u2014but that a collective mentality comes with that, and an acknowledgment that we all have a role to play.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222ef676b215274dc5b139ecadad01e7f4\u0022\u003EThis National-led New Zealand Government believes in peoples\u2019 abilities to get ahead and make the most of themselves. We understand that we have had 9 years of Labour. We understand that we have had 9 years of beating people down. We understand that we have had 9 years of people being treated like victims, and of their having no belief in their abilities to get ahead and make something of themselves. We understand that all some young people know is an interventionist Government that can only control them, and that actually controls all aspects of their lives. But they are here, and they have given us a mandate to stand up for them and believe in their abilities, and back them to make a difference in their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222ef676b215274dc5b139ecadad01e7f4\u0022\u003EI actually do not feel sorry for New Zealand employees. I actually believe in their abilities, and believe they can advocate for themselves in a way to go forward. I acknowledge that not everyone has a strong voice and a way to go forward, so I actually believe that unions have a place in standing up for those who cannot stand up for themselves. I am thrilled that this bill stands up for New Zealand rights, and for New Zealanders to stand against racial and sexual discrimination. I say to the New Zealanders out there who are wondering where they are going and what they will do: \u201CStep up!\u201D, and I am proud of a bill that gives them the ability to step up. To those people who want to give it a go, who want to get ahead, who want to take a bit of a risk and a chance, and who want someone to take a risk and a chance on them, I say we, the National-led Government, will back them in that. We will support those people to get ahead. We will back them to step up and to take that risk, and this bill is part of that process. This bill will play a vital role in recognising that New Zealanders know how to get ahead\u2014know that it takes a bit of guts, determination, and hard work\u2014and that they want to step up and be counted for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222ef676b215274dc5b139ecadad01e7f4\u0022\u003EI understand that for some of those young people, this will be a little bit nerve-wracking. They are used to being told what to do, how to do it, and how to live under a prescriptive regime. This is a new Government, this is a new way forward, but it is one that backs them. It backs them in their abilities, instead of backing a socialist regime that will tell them what to do. In fact, I say thank you to Kate Williamson for recognising that New Zealand employees want an opportunity and want to step up and be counted. They want to get a shot at that, and I tell them that their rights will be treated respectfully. I say to those New Zealanders who find there are ways in which the situation is not working out for them, to stand up, because we will back them. We will back them for those odd things that are a problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222ef676b215274dc5b139ecadad01e7f4\u0022\u003ENew Zealand delivered us a result on 8 November; people delivered a result that said they wanted to stand up for being New Zealanders and for their way forward. New Zealanders said they wanted to get back to some of the basics of \u201Ca good day\u2019s work for a good day\u2019s pay; give me a go and I will step up for it.\u201D That is what this bill is delivering to them. I say to beneficiaries out there, and to those who are dependent on the Government for their income, that we will back them to take a chance, to go for that job, and to get an employer to give them a go. There will be no stand-down periods for them if that relationship does not work out. This bill will open up opportunities for people to get up and give it a go. I will back them every time to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222ef676b215274dc5b139ecadad01e7f4\u0022\u003EI finish by saying thank you to New Zealand. I say thank you to John Key, and to Kate Wilkinson for leading this\u2014for showing us the way forward and for backing New Zealanders, who, at the end of the day, know how to move forward and how to make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022 data-id=\u002294408f3f501d4cefbd19697f3cf63627\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294408f3f501d4cefbd19697f3cf63627\u0022\u003ESU\u2019A WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E Three words came to mind as I listened to that speech made by Paula Bennett\u2014humbug, hogwash, and poppycock. On the eve of Christmas, and we have 14 days before Christmas Day, when most families throughout this country are preparing themselves to find gifts and to celebrate the Christmas spirit of gifting to young people, what do we have from the National-ACT-M\u0101ori Government? First, there were tax increases for those on $44,000 or less. Second, there was the 50 percent reduction in the employer contribution to KiwiSaver. Now, we have the \u201Cfire at will\u201D bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EThis bill will create a group of unscrupulous employers whose only desire is to abuse and make use of workers for 90 days, then get rid of them. This bill will enable new workers to be sacked without reason, without notice, and without a written warning. Employers will be able to sack new workers, and those workers will not be given the right of a personal grievance, which is a right that they currently have. In short, the bill will strip workers of the certainty and confidence in the workplace that they currently have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EThose most affected are the vulnerable workers whom the Government is targeting. I say that the vulnerable workers whom the Government is targeting are generally Labour supporters. The Minister assumes that the working relationship in the workplace is equal\u2014that both employer and employee are equal in the workplace. That is the situation that currently exists under the law that Labour put in place. But what will happen now? This new law will strip workers of their rights, and it will undermine the relationship that currently exists. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EThe most affected are the vulnerable. Sadly, they are from my part of the world, M\u0101ngere, Manukau City, Manurewa, and \u014Ct\u0101huhu. The Government is targeting young people, and in that part of the world we have more young people than throughout the rest of New Zealand. Young people who are taking up a new job, young people who are unfamiliar, will be keen-as to take on new roles, and they will be working hard to try to ensure that they keep them. What could happen to them? They could be sent a letter saying \u201CDon\u2019t come in on Monday\u201D or they could receive a phone call\u2014or they could be given not even a word. They will simply lose their jobs, because that is what this law provides for. There can be no reason and no notice. They can work all they want for 90 days, work hard, but can lose their job at the flick of a finger from an unscrupulous employer. I say \u201Cunscrupulous employer\u201D because not all employers are inclined towards what this bill will create. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EThe other most vulnerable group that this bill targets is womenfolk\u2014women who are coming back into the workforce, and women who want to make ends meet and to contribute to the finances of their families. What happens if my sister or my aunt decides, for some reason, during the month that she is not able to go to work? She can be fired. That is what this bill provides for. What happens if, during those 90 days, she calls in sick or says she has to visit the local school because her child needs some support there, and she cannot go to work on that day? She can be fired. That is what this bill provides for, without any notice and without any ability or opportunity to put her case forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EElderly folk will be targeted, and they are being targeted under this law. What will happen to the elderly folk who want to come back to work and make a contribution to the economy if, for some reason or other, they have to visit the doctor, go into hospital, or need to go home and have a bit of a rest? What will happen to them within those 90 days? They will be fired, at will. That is what this bill provides for. The most vulnerable in our communities, those who are protected under the current legislation, are being targeted and being stripped of their rights to be able to take a personal grievance if they feel they have been unjustly dismissed. I refer to migrant workers, M\u0101ori, and Pasifika workers. All of those workers, the most vulnerable in our communities, are being targeted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EThe Minister said that there will be opportunities. The only opportunity that I see being legislated for here is the opportunity to take away workers\u2019 rights\u2014to be able to sack a new worker, without the employer taking responsibility for making a bad decision. That is what this bill provides for. It provides the opportunity for unscrupulous employers to undermine the union in the workplace. They can sack a worker within that period if that worker wants to join a union, and if he or she wants to be able to meet with a union official. Employers can sack a worker for those reasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EI also feel that as more and more workplaces close and more people are unemployed as a result of the economic crisis that we are experiencing at the moment, we will have a pool of unemployed workers competing for whatever these jobs might be. If they are competing for those jobs, what will happen to them if, after 90 days, they have no guarantee of a permanent position? It means that some unscrupulous employer might say: \u201CLook, I will keep you on here if you are prepared to forgo some of your other conditions and terms.\u201D That is a strong possibility under this legislation, because this legislation creates fear and uncertainty and takes away the confidence of workers in the workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EIt is wrong for this Government to use the economic crisis as an excuse to take away the rights of workers. Workers want certainty in their employment relations, and workers have fundamental rights that are enshrined in the United Nations declaration. They have rights to redress, and this Government is stripping away the right to a personal grievance. The Minister also said that this bill will enable the creation of jobs. That is laughable, I say to the Minister. This bill does not create a single job. It creates bad employers and bad business practice, and it takes away personal grievance rights from the workers. During the Committee deliberations I asked the Minister how many jobs this bill will create. There was no answer. That was because that is not the intent of this legislation. The intent of this legislation is to fire at will the most vulnerable workers in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EThe Minister said that employers and employees will maintain active relationships and subject themselves to mutual agreements. That is hogwash. In this competitive global economy, the key issue facing our labour market now is how to attract new workers, not how to sack them. It does not matter what they say about opportunities, job creation, and equality in the workplace. When people use words like that to cover up something, my grandfather would say: \u201CE fiu lava e u\u2019u le tae pua\u2019a e pipilo lava.\u201D I will translate that for members. It means: \u201CIt doesn\u2019t matter how much perfume you pour on pig shit, it still stinks.\u201D That is what this bill is about. It stinks. It stinks for our communities and it stinks for workers throughout New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022549e5b80c8dc46d3a8084c425a4f9000\u0022\u003EThe Government wants to take us back to the 1990s whereby workers are stripped of all rights in the workplace. With those words, Labour strongly opposes this bill and will vote accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022 data-id=\u00222f1388718c994f19a12541a8c5410590\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f1388718c994f19a12541a8c5410590\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E After listening to the speeches from members on the other side of the House, we can understand why New Zealanders voted on 8 November for a brighter future. The dirges from the members on the other side have indicated the controlling nature of the Government of the last 9 years and the effect that it had on New Zealand. When we look at the performance of New Zealand in the last 9 years, during the best economic times in the last 30 years, we see that that lot over there squandered that opportunity. We are talking about creating a brighter future, and that is what we intend to do. The most important step in a journey of a thousand miles is the first step. Labour, when in Government, dug a big hole for New Zealand. It tried to bury New Zealand\u2019s aspirations, goals, and visions in it. This John Key - led Government is determined to lead New Zealand into a brighter future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EIt has been an insult to sit on this side of the House and have to tolerate the dirges and pointless discussion that have occurred from last night onwards. Fortunately, the other night I had the privilege to go to a very upbeat prize-giving at Queen Charlotte College, and I can tell members that people there were over the moon that they were being presented with an opportunity. In simple terms, this bill has been well and truly canvassed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EI would like to finish with a little comment from a blog site, because I do not think this bill deserves to be ridiculed in the way it has been by members on the other side. It is a visionary bill and it is something that has been long overdue. This comment is from a blog site, and I would like those members to listen: \u201CThis is an interesting announcement from National. I think it is one of those policies which people will be ashamed to support in public due to the \u2018left\u2019 interpretation of it but which most people, in the privacy of the polling booth, will support, because it is an actual common sense policy from National.\u201D The second point is \u201CThis debate may be cast as a evil-capitalist\u2019s charter by the left. It could also be cast as an \u2018anti-deadbeats\u2019 charter by the right.\u201D Finally: \u201CI think National will do well on voting day with this policy. It appeals to the kiwi sense of fair play. Let the people decide.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EAnd they did, on 8 November. Let this bill stand. I congratulate Kate Wilkinson; she has done a fine job. I take great pleasure in supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddbb44b30c374979a3a4b584c2810776\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddbb44b30c374979a3a4b584c2810776\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, well, well, those members could not wait, could they? They could not wait to put the boot into hard-working New Zealanders. The very minute that this National Government gets into power, on day two they use it to take away workers\u2019 rights. When have we seen that before? That is right, it was the last time that the National Party came into power. One of the first things National members enacted was the shocking Employment Contracts Act that took away workers\u2019 rights. It not only took away workers\u2019 rights, but it also reduced workers\u2019 wages. It took away their rights to have penal rates. It reduced their take-home pay. Here National members are, back in power, and they are at it again. They are straight into it, straight into taking away workers\u2019 rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EAll of the speakers from that side of the House got up and said that this is about opportunity, and that we had it wrong. Where is the opportunity in workers one day having the right to take a personal grievance if they are unfairly dismissed, and the very next day not having that right if they are unfairly dismissed? The date has changed during the course of the debate, because it turns out that it will now be until the last day of February that workers will have the right to a personal grievance if they are unfairly dismissed at work. Suddenly, on 1 March, overnight, all of those many workers who are in their first 90 days of employment in a company with 20 or fewer employees will lose that very basic right to have legal redress if they are unfairly dismissed at work. That Minister knows it. She knows that having a legal remedy, the backstop of taking a personal grievance case, is at the heart of a worker\u2019s right to fairness at work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThe people of this country voted for a new Government, and by gosh have they got a shock! They thought it was going to be business as usual. That is what National Party members went out of their way to say on the election campaign trail. They tried so hard to make it look like there would not be much of a change. They said that it would just be business as usual. Workers in this country are already reeling. They now know that it is not business as usual. I have an interesting graphic here that I think says it all. Members will want to have a look at this. This is the smiley face of John Key. Here he is. This is the smile that people voted for. They thought they were getting a nice guy. They thought they were getting someone who would continue with business as usual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b1e708a6e2b4cdcbda5f4768ded969f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The smiling assassin!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226045f513d05240909f231045854eb75e\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: This is it. He is the smiling assassin. Here he is, saying \u201CMerry Christmas. You\u2019re fired. Love, John.\u201D Here is his Christmas gift to all New Zealand workers, particularly those who change jobs. To the New Zealand workers who are listening to this and thinking \u201COh well, it probably will not ever affect me\u201D, I say to listen to this. How many workers actually change jobs? This provision affects all workers who will be changing jobs, not just young people. It does not matter what age the worker might be. We know that the effects of this bill will be widespread. We know that every 3 months a quarter of a million people in New Zealand start a new job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b45cb28c75ea41c1b9d36927f49917ae\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248cbfd52427240c0909053f2123e9748\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Every 3 months 250,000 people start a new job. We know that 96 percent of New Zealand companies employ 20 or fewer employees, so we know how widespread are the people who will be exposed to this unfairness at work. It will not be a small number of people; it will be a significant number of people. They will be people who you, Mr Speaker, and I, and everyone else in this House all know. They will be our children, and our brothers and sisters. Good grief, it might even be members in this Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EEven though I did not agree at all with the ACT amendment that was snuck in\u2014and National members never admitted that they were going to support it, but they did and they brought it forward\u2014I wonder about the timing of it. It is interesting that this bill does not come into effect until after 90 days of this new Government. I think that is quite deliberate, because if it came in within the 90 days of this new Government, those members might be up for their jobs. The New Zealand public would be saying \u201CGood grief, what have we done? We thought we were voting for the smile and we have ended up with the same old National Government that comes in and puts the boot into workers in its first 100 days of action.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the 100 days of action, because it is supposed to be turbocharged. As recently as only a week ago the Minister in charge of this bill, Kate Wilkinson, said that this bill was not part of the 100 days of action. Clearly, those members have already run out of ideas for their 100 days of action and they are pulling in every other bill that they can literally think of. That is what is going on here. They are already on day two of business in this House, and they have run out of turbocharged ideas for their 100 days of action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EWorkers will be reeling, because they have become used to almost a decade of a Government that has stood up for workers\u2019 rights. The Labour-led Government enhanced workers\u2019 rights. It was the Labour-led Government that introduced the idea of good faith into our employment legislation. It was the Labour-led Government that ensured all workers in this country are entitled to a fourth week of annual leave. It was the Labour-led Government that introduced paid parental leave, and what a difference that has made for many New Zealand families. It will be interesting to see what the new Minister does about paid parental leave, because I have not heard her say anything positive about it at this stage. She seemed to not react too well to hearing that the Labour-led Government introduced paid parental leave, so it will be very interesting to see what she does in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EIt was the Labour-led Government that introduced legislation by amending this same Act of Parliament to ensure that vulnerable workers had their rights protected if their jobs were contracted out. It was the Labour-led Government that ensured all workers had the right to bargain collectively. It was the Labour-led Government that ensured workers got paid decent wages when they were required to work on statutory holidays. Breastfeeding breaks, meal breaks, rest periods\u2014you name it; all of these things were enhancements to workers\u2019 rights. They were enhancements to family life and enhancements to fairness at work. It is no wonder that New Zealand workers thought: \u201CWell, gosh, it sounds quite good really, doesn\u2019t it, this business as usual. Let\u2019s have a change but it is going to be business as usual.\u201D What a rude shock they have received already. For the first time in almost a decade, there is legislation before this House that is reducing workers\u2019 rights. That has not happened in almost a decade. The last time it happened was the last time the National Party was on the Treasury benches, and it is happening all over again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EWell, here we go. New Zealand workers need to start learning to stand up for their rights again because they are under attack, and they have been under attack from day one from this National Government. They are so much under attack that the National Government did not even want other organisations or any members of the public coming and telling it what they thought about this attack on workers\u2019 rights. The Government has rushed this bill through all its stages under urgency so that no organisations can come along and say what they think of this reduction in workers\u2019 rights. A few organisations have made press releases over the course of the last 12 hours. In fact, that is the only opportunity they have had to say what they think\u2014by pumping out press releases. That is not a great democratic process, but that is the only thing those organisations have been able to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EI will read just a couple of those statements from those organisations. We did not have a select committee process, but this is what they would have come along and said. This is from the New Zealand Federation of Business and Professional Women, which is hardly one of those lefty union organisations that Dr Wayne Mapp talked about. It said that the bill is a step backward for all employees, particularly women. Is that not a great legacy from the new National Government, to particularly attack women workers? The federation stated: \u201CWe have worked hard to improve the status of women in New Zealand over the past 70 years, and to hear that New Zealand might soon have a law that would allow employers to fire an employee without reason or redress horrifies us.\u201D The business and professional women of New Zealand are horrified by this law change, and so is the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002233b656b5404a43e7a3668622a95cd7d0\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221372d42ce8374603b4a684f29889dbac\u0022\u003EUrgency Motions\u2014Labour Governments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022 data-id=\u00226a4772eeb7044f71953698446ea59f0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a4772eeb7044f71953698446ea59f0b\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a schedule showing the number of urgency motions over the last three Labour Governments. There were 47 urgency motions and three\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d57b8f46ebc44e892b6d50e1e083a94\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa4bdf058cf943eab7927c0175293c5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa4bdf058cf943eab7927c0175293c5f\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a list of urgency motions under the Labour Government where the bills were only released to the Opposition at a quarter to midnight on the night before the bills were to be debated. This is the list here. It is actually a blank piece of paper; it never happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022 data-id=\u00225e100af4da1848db8daad4cb819cad0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e100af4da1848db8daad4cb819cad0e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection to that? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c52594d64eb04b7486c2287aa738e1e8\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd43c0fab26a488c8edfe60df0125490\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000232\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e8564842997147e69c495cbcae269f4d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c49d014e3cfe41ae8534030147a7f709\u0022\u003EBail Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c43092b343945deae0ea01bc0334542\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022c789dc9a54514779a2eb0328aa82eeea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c789dc9a54514779a2eb0328aa82eeea\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Bail Amendment Bill be now read a first time. This bill is the first of a number of pieces of legislation in the justice portfolio that the new Government will bring to this House in its first 100 days in office. The overriding principle in taking these swift actions is the need to put public safety first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, public safety was not always at the forefront of policy making in the last term of the Labour Government, as the directive to reduce the prison population not only took priority but also often ran counter to the protection of the public. Last year\u2019s changes to the then Bail Act were one example of this. As part of the Labour Government\u2019s legislation to \u201Carrest the sharp increase in the prison population\u201D, it increased the threshold for remand in custody, from a risk that the defendant may abscond, interfere with witnesses or evidence, or offend on bail, to a real and significant risk. This meant that even if a defendant had repeatedly breached his or her bail conditions in the past, that defendant may not necessarily have been remanded in custody. To underscore this, another provision was inserted that prevented the court from being able to remand a defendant in custody for breaching bail conditions unless this meant that the defendant was a real and significant risk. The New Zealand Law Society, the Police Association, the Police Prosecution Service, and even a defence lawyer have all said that the 2007 changes effectively made it easier for people to get bail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe Bail Amendment Bill I have introduced today reverses those changes. Initial estimates from the Ministry of Justice suggest that changing the law will mean that another 50 to 100 prison beds will be filled. However, the ministry has also signalled that this is likely to be an underestimate, because repealing the 2007 amendments will send a clear signal to the judiciary that the threshold for bail has been raised. This group of accused represents the type of line calls on who is being granted bail under the previous Labour Government\u2019s law, when those people would previously have been remanded in custody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe Government recognises that a person charged with a crime has the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty and has the right not to be arbitrarily detained. Everyone charged with an offence also has the right to be released on reasonable terms and conditions unless there is just cause for continued detention. However, those rights must be balanced against the safety of the New Zealand public. In his previous spell in Opposition the Hon Phil Goff proposed legislation that would have limited access to bail for repeat offenders. He argued: \u201CAt a certain point the safety of the community comes before the rights of alleged offenders.\u201D In our view the previous risk test drew an appropriate balance between these competing considerations. Labour\u2019s test raised the bar for remand in custody. The people who will have benefited from this amendment are not low risk. They are people who would previously have been remanded in custody. In those cases, giving the benefit of the doubt to the public rather than the accused will come at a cost. However, that is a price we are willing to pay to keep New Zealanders safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EI want to make it clear that the Government will be implementing further campaign pledges regarding the bail system. We will be reviewing the Bail Act in order to improve compliance with bail conditions. In particular, we are concerned with the number of people failing to attend court. Between 1999-2000 and 2007-08, the number of defendants failing to answer bail increased by 155 percent. As at 30 September 2007 more than 18,500 cases were put on hold due to outstanding warrants to arrest. This suggests that many of those on bail already treat the system with some degree of contempt, and the pressure this puts on an already overloaded court system is unacceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EWe will also be progressing work to make sure that bail is not granted in return for information that a defendant provides regarding a criminal investigation. This measure aims to preclude further abuse of the bail system, as occurred in January 2008 when a gang leader was released on bail after negotiating the return of stolen war medals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EUnder this Government, public safety is the priority and will not be sacrificed. As part of our work programme on gangs and P we will also assess whether it is appropriate for people charged with drug offences to be eligible for electronically monitored bail in addition to home detention. The public of New Zealand deserve bail laws that put their safety first. This bill is the first of a number of measures that will restore public safety to its rightful place as the paramount consideration in justice policy, and I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u0022df728f2045524493aedaf0d3cd51d0bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df728f2045524493aedaf0d3cd51d0bc\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E This is a serious issue and should be treated as such, but on examination of the Bail Amendment Bill\u2014and I will show it for those who are watching at home\u2014we find it consists of one page, plus the explanatory note on the front. It is four clauses long. This bill can only be described as a classic National Party hoax. Before the election National members talked tough, looked tough, and tried to stamp their feet. National stirred up as much fear in the community as it possibly could, then it comes into the House and produces this bill, its fourth bill, which is a hoax and which is flimflam. When this bill is passed at the end of this urgency there will not be one New Zealander who is any safer in this country than he or she is now\u2014not one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis is the level of in-depth analysis that National is engaged in. This bill of four clauses just creeps over the page, with one line on the last page. That is it. National is trying to say to the people of New Zealand that by altering a couple of words they will be safer. This bill is predicated on a number of deliberately false and deceitful\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022955e64fe9d1b474382cd122c9096e11b\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: If it\u2019s so insignificant, why didn\u2019t you do it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022350b82990f144ad0bccc62d648ed2e1e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is going to blow over there, Mr Deputy Speaker; you might want to get the men in white coats. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis bill is based on a couple of very false and deceitful premises. The first premise relates to the use in the Bail Amendment Act 2007 of the words \u201Creal and significant risk\u201D, which, of course, were put into section 8 of the Bail Act, based on a body of common law precedents, in order to give more precision and consistency\u2014and later in this speech I will quote from a member of the judiciary to substantiate that point. National members say that this change made it easier to get bail, and that it was done in some way to try to get the prison population down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ELet us deal with the latter point first. Here are the remand figures, and we know that the number of prisoners on remand went up by 30 percent between 2004 and 2008. I will give members some specifics. The remand prison population has continued to grow at a rate greater than the sentenced population despite, of course, the 2007 amendment to the Bail Act. In July 2007 the number on remand, including prisoners held in police stations, totalled 1,733 and comprised 21 percent of the total prison muster. By July 2008 the number had increased by almost 6 percent and constituted 23 percent of the total prison muster, so that puts the sword into the silly accusation National still tries to run out that this was some sort of sneaky way to get the numbers down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s second point is that the Bail Amendment Act 2007 strengthened people\u2019s ability to get bail. The real and significant threshold was chosen after examining judicial decisions on previous risk thresholds. In its 2002 decision on R v Hines, the Court of Appeal implicitly agreed with the High Court that to amount to just cause for a defendant\u2019s continued detention, the risk that a defendant may interfere with a witness should be more than a nebulous and insignificant risk and should be a real and significant risk. That was the decision of a learned judge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe Kahui case at the High Court was one of the first decisions after the changes came into force. In that case Justice Heath stated that the change to a real and significant risk \u201Cdoes not seem to me to put the test any higher than was under previous legislation, but rather to emphasise the need for a proper inference to be drawn from proven facts; as opposed to the Court engaging in speculation or guesswork about the possibility of a risk.\u201D That is not from a politician or a political party. That is from a learned judge, Justice Heath, in a terrible case, as we know the Kahui case was, after these changes had been made. That puts the sword into the idea that the real and substantial risk threshold, a form of words based on common law precedent, somehow allowed a weakening in the bail laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIn its explanatory note on the National Government notes that the changes the previous Labour Government made were intended to clarify rather than make significant changes. This bill has been dressed up as a turbo-boosted effort. Simon Power is the hard man now, it appears, on law and order. I presume National will roll out Judith Collins at some point in the debate, but maybe we have here the kinder and gentler face, the baby-faced assassin, on law and order, who is here to soften us up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIn December 2007 the Ombudsman put out a report, which I am sure the honourable member Mr Power has. The Ombudsman conducted a review of the criminal justice sector at the Prime Minister\u2019s request. He stated: \u201CI express doubt whether this amendment\u201D\u2014this is the Labour Government\u2019s amendment\u2014\u201Cwill have a major impact in reducing the number of custodial remands.\u201D We know from the remand figures that it did not reduce the numbers; actually, those numbers went up. The figures he obtained from the Ministry of Justice, which is now Mr Power\u2019s own ministry, showed that in 2004, 2005, and 2006 the percentages of custodial remand cases given a custodial sentence was 41 percent, 43.8 percent, and 44.3 percent respectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThat is what we have learned judges saying, contrary to Mr Power\u2019s spin and to the ACT Party\u2019s tactics of trying to scare the living daylights out of people. I remember that during the election campaign Ms Wilkinson ran around the Waimakariri electorate saying that it was easy to get bail. Well, Justice Heath and the Ombudsman disagreed with that and the remand figures show that it is not true, but I suppose it was a good one-liner to try to scare ordinary New Zealanders with. In some respects, I suppose it worked, but we have to deal with reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWhat is National\u2019s big hit on its first law and order bill? This is flimflam, this is propaganda, and this will not make one New Zealander\u2014if we pass it tonight\u2014safer out there in the community. If the National Government was really serious and not just talking tough, with Judith Collins wandering around like a latter day John Wayne, it could do something that would not cost any taxpayers\u2019 money. The Government could call the Governor-General and trigger, by Order in Council, our parole legislation of two-thirds, and that would make people safer. That would make our communities safer. National would not have to bring it into the House because it has been done. It could simply ring the Governor-General, ask for an appointment, and ask him to trigger it through Order in Council. That would be a serious and substantial move, because the legislation that Annette King and Phil Goff put through is ready to go. It sits there now, raring to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EMy question to Mr Power is why will he not trigger that process. He comes to the House with this four-clause, one-page bill, and he will stand up over the next few hours and try to convince the people of New Zealand that they will be safer in and out of their homes once this bill is passed. He will try to convince the people of New Zealand that Justice Heath was wrong, that the Ombudsman was wrong, and that his own ministry\u2019s figures are wrong. He will try to say to the people that the remand population went down, when the facts from his ministry show that is wrong, and he will try to build a case around this. I look forward to this debate, because it will be a lengthy one. This bill is flimflam. This is National talking tough, stamping its feet, yelling out, scaring the community before the election, and then trying to dress up a weak bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI ask Mr Power why, if this legislation is so good, he does not drop it into a select committee. If he wants to turbo-boost it through, then, OK, he could give it to a select committee for a couple of days, because it is only four clauses and one page long. It would take only about 10 seconds to read it, and maybe 1 minute to read the explanatory note.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022210253b75c8141ccbcaec3e564ab8298\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on, you had help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224abc8b0ee3f1469099148a61afdf2adc\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, maybe it would be 10 minutes for that member, and that is just the first page. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIf those members are so proud of the bill, then why do they not give it to a select committee and let it go through an examination? They could call in the stakeholders whom they say feel this is a good thing. They could call in the Law Commission and others and ask for their view on it. But, oh no, that will not happen, because then I suspect we would start to see the overlocking being unpicked on this legislation. We would start to see the cloth beginning to unravel and fray, legislatively speaking, around this legislation, because this bill is their big hit, their big turbo-boost to be tough on law and order. I say again that if they wanted to be tough on law and order and if they wanted to make people safer in their homes tonight\u2014and they could do it now; I am sure the Governor-General would make himself available\u2014they could trigger the Parole Act through Order in Council in one hit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022 data-id=\u002278e7c2c10a504c2e894d5417e481ff88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278e7c2c10a504c2e894d5417e481ff88\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Opposition can scarcely be surprised by the Bail Amendment Bill, coming as it does in the context of clear policies announced by National whilst in Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022908288b525764582acc04ad09ed678e3\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Assistant Speaker. It may have overlooked your attention, but the previous speaker in his contribution in the House failed to tell Parliament or the people of New Zealand whether Labour would be voting for or against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec496229293a42ad801d0b5ab54f4dcd\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. There was no point of order in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a6b4fe1c5bb4d89891a82de6394de3c\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps, if I may, I will start again. The Opposition can scarcely be surprised by the passage of this legislation in the context of urgency today, because the National Party whilst in Opposition clearly telegraphed its position on a number of significant law and order issues, and this was assuredly one. I am a bit surprised by the comments of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove when he suggested that somehow because this bill is short it might lack some element of merit. This legislation is a significant, substantive change, and that is to be so clearly seen by the apparent opposition of Opposition members. It is a reality in the criminal justice system that it is necessary to balance a whole lot of interests, and they are the interests of justice, in that broad sense, and in the interests of victims, offenders, and issues relating to court process. It is scarcely surprising that this trial, which the Opposition embarked on when it was in Government, has lamentably failed. It lamentably failed because it was for an improper purpose, and that purpose, which was unsuccessful in the outcome, was to reduce the prison muster. That is clearly not what this legislation is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EThis is legislation that is substantially concerned with process and substantially concerned with public safety. If we look at the original provisions of the Bail Act 2000, it can be seen that if a person is not bailable as of right, then there has to be just cause for continued detention. And what should that just cause for continued detention be? That is not a very difficult question at all; it is whether a defendant may fail to appear at court on the date to which he or she has been remanded, whether there is the prospect of witness interference, and whether a defendant may offend whilst on bail. We have seen this trial, which the Opposition when in Government embarked upon, fail. We have seen it fail, I think, for substantially the reason that it was based on improper purpose. It is important in the context of law and order policies having an effectiveness and substance that we have legislation of this type. That is why the Government has introduced it. That is why the Government is determined to see its speedy passage and its effective implementation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf41b97b11e14d949dce120f92fdca41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf41b97b11e14d949dce120f92fdca41\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E That speech had the length and substance of the Bail Amendment Bill; it lacked in both categories. But the member, in his brief address, got the situation absolutely wrong, as did the Minister in charge of the bill. The Minister said Labour was about reducing the prison population. Well, I will tell him the facts, which are that under Labour the prison population went up by over 3,000\u2014the biggest increase in the prison population in this country\u2019s history\u2014and four new prisons were opened. But, then, both Mr Worth and Mr Power said the intention of the 2007 amendment to the Bail Act was to reduce the prison population\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263bfd213731447c38e411d93deba7fb4\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not what the explanatory note says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b8106084b044c28b47f649c2b61e2ec\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The explanatory note of the bill says absolutely the opposite of that. It gives the lie to the Minister\u2019s repeated claim that that was the purpose. Let me read to him from the explanatory note of the bill in his own name. It states: \u201CThe amendments were intended to clarify the law rather than make any significant changes.\u201D If the Minister does not believe that, why did he put that statement in his legislation? What he has put there contradicts in black and white what both he and Mr Worth have just said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe comment was made that this is a short bill. I have no objection to legislation being short; what I object to is that this bill is entirely without substance. I say to Mr Power that this bill is simply window dressing. The Minister may say that is a political comment from the Labour Party, but, no, I am quoting from Professor Geoffrey Hall, who is the expert in New Zealand on sentencing and criminal law. He was talking about the companion bill, but that comment applies to both bills. He says the stuff is already there and \u201CIt sounds to me like it\u2019s window dressing\u201D. That is what Professor Hall, the foremost expert on New Zealand criminal law, says about this Minister\u2019s effort to demonstrate that he is doing something. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThis bill is a pathetic effort to show that the Minister is being tough on crime, when, by his own admission and by John Key\u2019s own admission, this legislation will, at best, affect a handful of people. I ask Mr Power to tell me how many people will be affected by this legislation. He will not answer that question, but John Key did. John Key said it might affect 75 people. Does Mr Power know how many people are remanded into custody each year in our system? Does the Minister know that basic fact? He does not, so I will tell him. The number of New Zealanders who are remanded into custody each year, rather than being given bail, is 15,000. Mr Key says this bill might affect 75 people, but we were told in the justice briefing that this measure would affect 10 people\u201410 beds\u2014next year. That is 40 people over the next 4 years. So here we have this legislation, which Mr Power struts into the House with and says is his top priority in criminal justice to make the country safer, and it is to affect 10 people. Frankly, that is pathetic, as is the fact that this legislation is being put through the House under urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWe want to have criminal law that is carefully considered. That means law that is considered by a select committee. That happens with regard to all legislation relating to criminal justice. Every bill relating to criminal justice goes to a select committee, because when it comes to criminal law we want to have proper scrutiny and we want to get the legislation right the first time around. Every New Zealander has the right to be heard on important legislation. This bill will affect 10 people in the next year, but Mr Power, as Minister, contrary to what he has said in the speeches he has given in this House year after year, is prepared to ram this measure through and to deny the opportunity for ordinary New Zealanders and experts like Professor Hall to have their voices heard. I know why the Minister does not want this bill to go to a select committee. It is because a select committee would reveal that this measure is flimflam, that it is window dressing, and that it has no impact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EIf the Minister wants to do something that has an impact, then he knows he can go to the Governor-General today and ask him to bring into effect the 2007 amendment to the Sentencing Act, which would require a minimum detention period of two-thirds of a sentence before parole is granted. Will the Minister do that? That would affect hundreds of people; it would keep criminals locked up for a lot longer than they are at present. The Minister does not need legislation to do that. He could do it tomorrow; he could do it today. But that would have substance and a cost, so this Minister, this show pony, struts into the House to say this bill is his big deal in criminal justice, and it will affect 10 people in the next year. Well, frankly, that is farcical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EYou see, the problem is that the National Government has to be seen to be doing something in its first 100 days. It said it would make an impact. The difficulty is that after 9 years in Opposition, National gets elected and, whether one is talking about the economy or law and order, it has no plan. It has no plan and it has no policy. So we get the show pony coming into the House with this piece of window dressing that does absolutely nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ENow Mr Power, ironically, is changing the legislation to put back in place the legislation that I passed in 2000, which National opposed then. It opposed that legislation in 2000 and 2002. Now that legislation, the bail law, did toughen the situation up. It resulted in an extra 2,000 people a year being locked up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022808de59cef7b40ab8dc78382a6df4fbb\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, what\u2019s happened since then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261862154c941435e951d21e914392c8d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Power, since he has asked me, that what has happened is that we have significantly reduced the rate of offending while people are on bail. The Minister\u2019s own explanatory note sets that out. The Minister says Labour was soft on law and order, and it did not make any difference in this area. I tell Mr Power that between 2004 and 2008, the latest figures that I can give the Minister, the number of people who were remanded into custody went up by 30 percent. That Minister is trying to tell the House there was something inherently wrong with our bail legislation and we were soft on law and order. But the number of people who were remanded pending trial went up by 30 percent. That 30 percent figure is 2\u00BD times more than the fast rate of increase in sentenced inmates. We did that, yet this National Minister comes in and says National is going to make a real difference with legislation that will increase the need for remand beds in the next year by 10! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI tell Mr Power that that is a joke\u2014an absolute joke. We will get to the sentencing legislation in the next bill and I say that is a joke as well, because Mr Power knows that it makes no difference. Professor Hall said that. This bill makes scarcely any difference. Just as the Minister said that the 2007 amendment to the Bail Act does not substantially change the test for denying bail, this bill does not change the test. So this Minister, after the National Party campaigned on law and order and how big a difference it would make, comes into this Parliament with no plan to do anything substantial. He refuses to implement the legislation that requires two-thirds of the minimum sentence to be served before parole is granted, when he can do that right now, and he brings us two pieces of flimflam that will not make a single New Zealander feel safer in his or her bed tonight or next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThat is a disgrace. That shows just how shallow the incoming National Government is. It has had 9 years to prepare for what it would do to make New Zealand safer, and it brings into the House today two bills that, by National\u2019s own admission, will not make a difference. The Government brings this legislation in under urgency, denying the right of New Zealanders to examine that legislation, because it knows that on any examination it will be shown to be flimflam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3d9b54b93a84ca7be11545af980d700\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3d9b54b93a84ca7be11545af980d700\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Following the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s speech, I point out that he has once again failed to tell the House and the public of New Zealand how Labour will be voting on this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5a27d68123f4e27a084d2c4a4df5121\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order; it is a debating point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d014d97d5fe14846847a78e9927fa46c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d014d97d5fe14846847a78e9927fa46c\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Once again I find myself, as a new member, sitting here totally bemused by the Opposition\u2019s position on a bill. What the Bail Amendment Bill does is return us to the status quo in 2000, after the Bail Act that the former Labour Government had introduced was passed. If one follows that logic, the speakers on the other side are opposing this bill because they got it wrong in 2000. Is that right? That is the only thing they can be saying, if they oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EFrankly, we have had some quite silly comments about its length. Does the Hon Clayton Cosgrove write a 25-page bill when a 2-page bill will do? It is very short because all it does is remove the \u201Creal and significant\u201D risk test and return us to a risk test\u2014a test that was put in place in 2000 by the then Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThe speakers on the other side referred to judicial pronouncements on the Act, and I see in the explanatory note that, as usual with judicial pronouncements, they were divided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThere is, of course, a need to balance the presumption of innocence with the risk to community. That is what bail is all about. There is a presumption of risk with all offenders\u2014of course there is. But I say that any risk, even remote risk, is too much. The Hon Phil Goff has made much of the fact that only 10 people may be affected. Well, Graeme Burton is only one person. Thankfully, he killed only one person, but he darn near killed three. Those 10 people whom the Hon Phil Goff has referred to are 10 potential killers. One gets bail these days unless there is a darn good reason why one should not. All this bill does is return us to Labour\u2019s position in 2000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003ENumerous tragedies have arisen from people on bail being released when they should not have been. We have heard statistics, and I am sure we will hear more in this debate, but I prefer to talk about examples. Michael Curran murdered 2-year-old Aaliyah Morrissey while on bail for killing 24-year-old Natasha Hayden. At the time that Curran killed Mrs Hayden, a young woman with whom he was having an affair, he had 22 criminal convictions, including two for indecent assault on a girl under 12. He was released by Justice Cooper, who said that a strong case was not enough; a strong case was not enough, so he was released on bail. Not long thereafter he killed a young girl. I am more interested in those kinds of examples than 16 percent of this or 10 beds there. Those examples are the things that concern me. The Michael Curran case is not a lone case. I can bring numerous examples to this House and I probably will do that in my next contribution. There are many of them, sadly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThis bill does nothing but return us to the status quo in 2000, a status quo created by the former Labour Government. Labour members in arguing against this bill are simply saying they got it wrong\u2014they made a mistake. If they want to say that, fine. I do not agree that they did make a mistake, as it happens; I do not agree that they did. This legislation takes us back to the status quo in 2000, and nothing more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EI come back to the risk test. It is quite true that some people who are remanded in custody\u2014in fact, quite a few\u2014are later found not guilty. That is because the test under our law of \u201Cbeyond reasonable doubt\u201D is very high. But we must remember that, despite what is said in the newspapers frequently, being found not guilty is not being found innocent. There is no such verdict in our law. I am expecting to hear a lot of figures on how many people in remand were found not guilty. I simply make the point that there is a difference between being found not guilty and being found innocent. I say that where there is any doubt at all\u2014and, clearly, this is what the Hon Phil Goff thought in 2000\u2014we should err on the side of caution and protect children like Aaliyah Morrissey from predators like Michael Curran. That is all this bill does. It returns us to the status quo introduced by the former Labour Government in 2000. The ACT Party is very happy to support this short and succinct bill, which does just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u00224e7ea55cd2d74953a3ff9da9f7220d22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e7ea55cd2d74953a3ff9da9f7220d22\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will oppose the Bail Amendment Bill, although we will be supporting National\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214eff59178d6404996c5f024f1f6bc68\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Good on you for saying which way you\u2019ll be voting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b30209120874bdaa3847e790b8a05f5\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. We will be supporting the Sentencing (Offences against Children) Amendment Bill, which is due to be debated in the House some time today or maybe tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe amendments to the bail laws in 2007, I understand, were simply designed to align that legislation with the common law. We supported that legislation at the time and we see no reason at this stage to change our view. In fact, the changes to the bail laws were of such minor consequence that the issue was not really debated when the legislation came back to the House after its select committee process. It is unfortunate that there has not been a chance for this bill to go to a select committee so that we could discover whether there is a need to change and revert back to pre-2002 circumstances. We have no evidence before us that that is an important thing to do, and without that evidence it is very difficult to argue that it is necessary. I understand from Labour members that, in their view, the impact of the amendments to the 2007 legislation was not necessarily significant. Again, it is very difficult to judge this without there being a select committee process that properly looks into the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EIn our view, bail should never be granted when there is a risk to the safety of the public. David Garrett has raised a very extreme case of where bail was granted, and we absolutely agree that granting bail is absolutely inappropriate in cases such as that. In the past, the judiciary has made mistakes that have resulted in terrible tragedies, as outlined. No doubt further mistakes will be made in the future, because no matter how good or strong the rules that we establish in this House are, mistakes will always be made. But it is a falsehood to suggest to the community that those mistakes are the norm or that those extreme cases are the norm. It is our concern for the majority of cases that raises our objection to this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe need to have rational, evidence-based criminal law changes, not fearmongering for political gain\u2014and much of the dialogue around extreme cases is just that. The fact is that the vast majority of bail is given in the correct circumstances, particularly to younger offenders, first-time offenders, and those charged with minor offences. In those circumstances it is absolutely correct to keep those people as far away from jail as possible in order to protect the community. We know that reoffending rates are much higher among young and first-time offenders who are in prison. If young people and first-time offenders are put into prison, they are more likely to reoffend when they come out. That is a fact that is not often talked about in public during the rhetoric about law and order that goes on. If our aim is to keep our communities safe\u2014or at least safer\u2014from crime, then we must make sure that those categories of offender are kept out of prison. It is also a fact that the longer a person spends in prison, the more likely they are to reoffend when they get out. So these are essential considerations to bear in mind when we are looking at bail law. If being in prison is a contributory cause of reoffending, then keeping non-violent offenders out of prison is the best way to keep our communities safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThere are other issues, too, such as the unjustified imprisonment of, especially, our younger people. I found the comments of Beven Hanlon, the president of the Corrections Association of New Zealand, to be compelling. In commenting on the bail amendments he said his main issue was where we would put all the prisoners. Although the Bail Amendment Act of 2007 freed up beds in our prisons, he said that the estimate of 100 or more beds in prisons was far too high in terms of what this law provided, and that New Zealand would go back to having prisoners kept in police vans and police cells. We know that there have been many cases of violence, and, indeed, killings, in police vans and police cells.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThat point, of course, leads directly to the earlier comments made by both the current Minister of Justice and the current Minister of Corrections about double-bunking in our prisons. Those who are obsessed with retribution will applaud the idea of this practice, but double-bunking\u2014which is, in fact, overcrowding in our prisons\u2014and the practice of keeping prisoners in police cells and vans are causes of violent assaults against staff and other inmates, and also a cause of suicide. Also, such practices increase the culture of violence and abuse inside prisons, and this will spill out into our communities. In effect, these are predictable and predicted outcomes of the National Government\u2019s policy. Such policies will increase violence in our communities and make our communities less safe, not safer. This increase in violence has been premeditated by this House and by those who vote for this bill. They must share some responsibility for that inevitable outcome. These policies put Department of Corrections staff in particular at direct risk. Staff in any environment have the right to be as safe as possible. Corrections policies that elevate the risk for staff are grossly irresponsible, and the Minister of Corrections should bear some responsibility for any incidents that might occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ENew Zealand also has a very high rate of youth suicide. It is higher for those between 15 and 24 years of age than for any other age group. The M\u0101ori youth suicide rate is nearly double that of P\u0101keh\u0101. The suicide rate among young offenders in adult prisons is extremely high. I understand that there are, after all, only four youth offender units in New Zealand. Increasing the remand rate for young offenders, where the only place they have to go is into adult prisons, will increase the suicide rate for those young people, and those offenders may have been charged with fairly minor non-violent offences. For some, remand will be a death sentence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EFor M\u0101ori the impact is even greater. All the research proves that M\u0101ori are more likely to be stopped by the police, searched by the police, arrested by the police, convicted in the courts, and denied diversion\u2014more so than any other population in New Zealand. The M\u0101ori imprisonment rate is extremely high because of the racist filters in the legal system that target and punish M\u0101ori simply because they are M\u0101ori. Any amendments to the bail legislation will exacerbate that racism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI agree with Simon Power that corrections policy is failed social policy. During this spell of urgency we have already passed two bills relating to social policy that will fail M\u0101ori and our communities in general. The tax legislation will take money out of the pockets of our poorest families. It is the extraction of wealth from the poor in order to pad the wallets of the rich. The rich become even more fearful and aggressive in their attempts to keep their wealth and continue to punish the poor simply because they are poor. The poor struggle to manage increasing State intervention in their lives in order to make some headway, all the while moving one step forward and two steps back. The increase in income disparity will lead to social unease, as it always does. This action is pre-meditated. This House is choosing to create a less fair and less safe society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe employment relations amendments will increase the numbers of disenfranchised and vulnerable young workers. Those workers will find the constant employment to benefit roller coaster to be one that forces them into greater debt, unstable housing, and illness. The 13-week stand-down period\u2014which will still apply because the Minister of Labour, Kate Wilkinson, has been too naive to figure out how to fix it\u2014will mean that families will face long periods without work or income support. Their children will move from school to school as their parents try to find secure employment. This will lead to reduced educational achievement and despair with the education system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe increase in truancy fines that is coming up in the new education bill\u2014which is yet to be tabled, I understand\u2014will simply suck even more money out of the pockets of families who are desperately trying to find some stability for their children but are having to make the unpalatable financial choice between whether to buy food, to pay the rent, to pay the power bill, or to get warm clothes and shoes for their kids and still have their kids able to attend school regularly and successfully. Of course, the move to standardised testing that is coming up shortly, with league tables for primary schools, will, as has been proved in the US, increase the gap between the educational outcomes of the wealthy and the poor\u2014and between P\u0101keh\u0101 and M\u0101ori\u2014advance the privatisation of the education system, and further lock out New Zealand children from their rightful entitlement to high-quality public education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022 data-id=\u00222b903ad34cbd43af8a8001bc6fc9e665\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b903ad34cbd43af8a8001bc6fc9e665\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of this legislation. It is something that has been called for by a number of people who work at the coalface of our judicial system. I have been approached by policemen, prosecutors, Crown prosecutors, defence counsel, and judges sitting in the District Court, and I have spoken to judges sitting in the High Court and to victims. Every one of them says they need to have this change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EMembers on the other side of the House have quoted Professor Hall and Justice Heath\u2014two people. None of them have quoted those judges at the coalface, who sit in the District Court every day and deal with those people who present a threat to their victims on a daily basis. It is hard, too, to work out what Labour will do with this legislation, because it has not said as yet. If Labour members are going to oppose it, will they be opposing it because in their view it does nothing, or will they be opposing it because of what they did in 2007, which did nothing? Those members cannot call it flimflam and they cannot say that it does nothing now, if it really changed something back when they altered the phrase \u201Crisk\u201D to \u201Creal and significant risk\u201D. This legislation lines up very much with some of the changes that the Labour Government made earlier in its tenure. One of the changes it made, of course, was to take the time threshold for parole down to one-third of the sentence. Recently in the last few weeks we have seen Mr Shipton and Mr Schollum released on parole after serving just over 3 years of an 8-year sentence. They follow long after Mr McNamara, who was released after serving about one-third of his sentence. Mr McNamara was not a prisoner who showed exemplary behaviour. Members may remember that he was the prisoner who fathered a child while he was behind bars\u2014sentenced under the Labour Government\u2014and then used as the reason for his parole application the fact that he had a child and wanted to be released so he could be with his child. That is the way Labour views the judicial system and the way it should operate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EWe have to remember too that under Labour we ended up with a system that in the last 12 months has seen 79 people charged with committing murder while out on bail. Who in their right mind believes that the place for accused murder offenders is out in the community? We heard a salient example from the ACT Party\u2014an extreme example, but salient\u2014of someone committing further crime while out on bail. The previous Minister of Justice said it is not easy to get bail, but we know that just about every offender who appears before the court does get bail. In fact, the vast majority of prisoners who apply for bail have it granted. We know that a significant number of those people go on to offend while out on bail. We know, for instance, that while accused murderer Chris K\u0101hui\u2014who was later acquitted before the court\u2014was out on bail for murder, he breached his bail conditions on four occasions. We also know that the five offenders accused of the murder of Navtej Singh are out on bail and they have also breached their bail conditions. We know, as can any idiot watching the television screen, that the nature of that offending was something that happened spontaneously; it was out of control. We now know that those people are out on bail, and we now know that they have breached their bail conditions on several occasions. When we talk to the District Court judges, the Crown prosecutors, the police prosecutors, and the police who have to enforce the curfew conditions of offenders out on bail, they say: \u201CFor goodness\u2019 sake, change the law.\u201D The National Party had the courage of its convictions to campaign on that, and it will do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EI will finish with a couple more points. National members have been accused of jerking around with the rules, procedures, and conventions of this House by bringing this bill before the House under urgency. We want to look back at what the Labour Government did under urgency. I will never forget standing here and listening to Labour members put through the bill that retrospectively OK\u2019d $800,000 of taxpayers\u2019 money that was taken away. As my colleague Simon Bridges will know, I have spoken to and interrogated a hell of a lot of people who have told lies and porkies in front of me. I remember watching Dr Cullen, and I remember thinking to myself that there was a guy\u2014and all his body language indicated it to the House\u2014who did not believe a damn word he was saying. He was wrong to do it. That showed that the Labour Party is prepared to pour scorn over taxpayers and over voters; it does not care. Well, here is National, which is listening to the voters. Here is National, which is prepared to put its money where its mouth is. Is it good legislation? Let us hear Labour members give 10 good reasons why they are not going to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u002242da866bb9984f429373a48d02a17117\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242da866bb9984f429373a48d02a17117\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to be able to speak on the Bail Amendment Bill while David Garrett is still in the House. The member\u2019s speech in this debate was the first time I have heard him speak. I congratulate him on now being a member of this Parliament. Coming in as the spokesperson for the Sensible Sentencing Trust, he has come in with an agenda; that is fair enough. But I listened very carefully to Mr Garrett talking before the election about the \u201Cthree strikes and you\u2019re out\u201D policy\u2014a very strong ACT policy. Up and down New Zealand people listened to what he said. Those who voted for ACT heard it. They did not hear what he said after the election: that this policy, should it be implemented, would have no impact on the number of people going into prison for another 15 years. I say to Mr Garrett that that was not an upfront, truthful approach to the people of New Zealand. That was not what ACT candidates said on the hustings where I was. That was not what ACT candidates said. Not for one moment did they believe that, if this policy were implemented, somebody might be affected by it only in 15 years\u2019 time. All I can say is that that is not a straightforward way to start one\u2019s career in this place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI listened to Chester Borrows and I ask why he is not the Minister of Police. He should be the Minister of Police. He has a lot of information and a lot of knowledge. I believe he would be a very fine Minister of Police, but he was shifted to one side. I have to correct him, however, on one thing he said; when it comes to the justice area, perhaps he is not so well informed. He raised the issue of people offending on bail. I suggest he reads this bill. I point him to page 4 of the explanatory note of his Minister\u2019s bill, where it states that offending on bail under a Labour Government was reduced\u2014not increased, but reduced. I point him to page 4 and ask him to have a read. It shows the drop in offending on bail under a Labour Government. The impression the member left for the public was that offending was going up and was out of control. That is not what is in his own Minister\u2019s bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that law and order was a major election campaign issue. In fact, a campaign to make it a major election issue started, I think, almost 2 years before the election. It seemed that the National Party had decided that if it could not buy the election, then\u2014along with its backers, those who control the media, and those who own the media\u2014it would scare the voters into its camp. As so many commentators and academics have said, whipping up law and order as a political issue is very much like using race as a political issue. We know how successfully the National Party used the race issue against M\u0101ori to lift its poll ratings: it almost won the 2005 general election by whipping up the race issue. Everybody on the National front bench\u2014with the exception of Christopher Finlayson, but including John Key\u2014jumped on that race-based campaign. Those members had no qualms about taking the poll gains that Don Brash brought them with that campaign. Of course, once John Key became the leader he then decided he needed to broaden his base, so he popped down to McGehan Close and found a nice M\u0101ori family, who became the poster for his now broadened approach to New Zealand. But National members banked the race-driven poll ratings; they never repudiated their basic assumptions, and they moved on to their next target, which was to whip up the same response on law and order for the 2008 election campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EDo not get me wrong: safety in our community is very important. Every murder is a tragedy and every assault is wrong. Family violence in this country is a national disgrace. Street violence is unacceptable. The tools we use in this country, like most other countries, are a combination of legislation, education, and enforcement. We use these tools to try to combat crime in our society, but the tools have to be effective. I say to Simon Power, for whom I have great respect, that this bill is not an effective legislative tool if it is intended to put more people in prison. That is the basis on which he has put up this bill\u2014to put more people in prison. But this bill will do nothing of the sort. He is talking about a handful of people at the margin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4af579f936f47d48bfe4eba7737aafb\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: 10 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e8dfa36fd7342f9a02b91025d759f06\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The advice I received, as Minister of Justice, is that we are talking about 10 more people\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d39367c3bc84f05a4476aa6a287c3b2\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: You got it wrong in 2000\u2014what\u2019s changed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4b6af6cd89443149c5db686e1d805e3\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Garrett they would not have all been murderers or even have committed violent crimes. Ten more people by 2009 would have been in prison and 40 more people by 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EYou see, the change to the Bail Act in 2007 was never about putting more people in prison. The changes made by Phil Goff in 2000\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291b70f3a8181492b9ca441a2cac39236\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: It was about remanding dangerous people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f6e4e5d03394ba095a0be4def8a5626\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Garrett that I am correct. The changes made to bail law in 2000 by Phil Goff were real, big changes. They were significant. The change made in 2007 was not about putting fewer people in jail\u2014and I will go over that in a moment. That was not the purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThis bill is just flummery, and that distresses me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0dee6d8a90d48e584166b7dd674ffba\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Just flimflam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f46922f758f64e5e93f5c748d5ef7661\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: It is just flimflam, as my colleague says. The 2007 amendments were about clarifying the bail law. They were never about remand beds. Mr Power has read his very short bill, but I am surprised that he has not read the explanatory note. The explanatory note was probably written by the Ministry of Justice, because it would have given him this advice. [Interruption] I ask Mr Garrett whether he is listening. It states: \u201CThe amendments [of 2007] were intended to clarify the law rather than make any significant changes.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EWhy did we need to clarify the law? Well, it became quite obvious. The ministry\u2019s advice was that we needed to clarify what was considered a risk under the previous risk threshold. It came out of case law\u2014out of a Court of Appeal 2002 decision, the Queen v Hines. In that case it was stated that to amount to just cause to continue detention, the risk should be \u201Cmore than nebulous and insignificant and should be a real and significant risk\u201D. On the basis of that and other decisions we decided, on advice, to use those words in the amendment of 2007. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EIt was not about more people or fewer people going to prison. That is why it is flimflam to be making this change under urgency. I tell Mr Power that this bill makes very little difference to the status quo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e234e853c814225a8f4fce8479fe6e3\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: We won\u2019t be voting against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228664a72972674d2ab5a3b3a4895cd2e8\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Therefore we will not be voting against it. It makes very little difference. It is flimflam. I believe that if the member had really wanted to make a difference, then he would have picked up some of the tough measures that exist and are in law now. One of those is the two-third parole provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227729ffeab416483d8a5c8fece2dc3996\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Pick up the phone!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e261de64924b4ad8b9f2f6606ec9e297\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The Bail Amendment Act 2007 is passed, I tell members of the House. I tell Mr Garrett that the law is passed. It need only be triggered by an Order in Council. It would make a significance difference. I say to Mr Garrett that the ACT Party, as a coalition partner, should put pressure on the National Government to implement that legislation. An Order in Council could be drawn up today, could go through Cabinet on Monday, and the Governor-General could sign it off in the afternoon. It would make a significant difference for the safety of people in New Zealand. But the National Government is not doing that. It wants this piece of flummery to be its flagship legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a92ed08a26e84ffe80261488e9837288\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a92ed08a26e84ffe80261488e9837288\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E It is my great pleasure to rise in this House to speak in favour of the Bail Amendment Bill. It was good to hear the Hon Annette King say the Labour Party will support this bill. It shows quite clearly that Labour admits that it got the bail law absolutely wrong in 2007 when it voted to change it. Labour did not know what it was doing then, and now it will not be opposing this bill, which will change the law. I commend the Hon Simon Power for his courage in bringing before this House our first piece of legislation to toughen up the criminal law in this country and to bring it more in line with what the people want to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220906df5202d44f7ca1553ad79ec9bcbf\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: This member\u2019s easily pleased!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224336d978bdcf40e2a234d677a3de44a6\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I tell the Hon Darren Hughes that I come to this House with a lot of experience in the bail laws. I have prosecuted, and been involved in, hundreds of bail hearings both before Labour\u2019s law change and after, and I have learnt a bit about this law and what it means, with the life experience that I have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022\u003EAll I would say about the Labour Government\u2019s amendments to the bail law in 2006 and 2007 is that they made it easier for crims. I say to the Hon Annette King, when she talks about 10 cases affected, that I have prosecuted at least 10 cases that were fine calls\u2014where the judges made it very clear that because of this change made to the law in 2007 they were letting the people out on bail. I say also to this House that the measure by Labour, when it amended the law, was entirely fiscally driven. It was not about justice or about criminal law; it was entirely fiscally driven. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022\u003EI say to the Hon Clayton Cosgrove that I am glad he is still a member of the House. He shows that a little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing, with his comment on Justice Heath in the K\u0101hui case. Yes, he was right; the learned judge did say the law made no difference. But what, cumulatively, the law is and what the various judges in this country have said is, in fact, expressed in the most influential commentary on criminal law in this country, Adams on Criminal Law: \u201CJudges have expressed different views of the effect of the statutory amendment;\u201D. It cites many cases that were in favour of the no-change position; but then goes on to say: \u201COthers consider the amendment has set a higher threshold for refusal of bail.\u201D That is actually what it did do in the District Court. The High Court judges did not know what the Labour 2007 amendment Act meant. This Government is changing the law back. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f61980d3529345bcb596a7a1d8e7c123\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f61980d3529345bcb596a7a1d8e7c123\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I believe that this bill should be renamed the \u201CWasting Parliament\u2019s Time on Meaningless Legislation Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022287e0f73ad16460b881038ba359fe461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c29246e2e724a0ba74c8b05a32965cb\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: In urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022302cf9c7096042888f9b67768fc88a1a\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: And we are doing it under an urgency motion. Again, there is no opportunity for comment by the public. There is no ability to scrutinise this bill and say how effective or ineffective it is, what it does, or how it could be improved. There is no chance given, whatsoever. This is another case of turbocharged legislation. It is a glowing example of the tough, strong National Party. This bill has minimal effect, but it is absolutely essential that it is rushed through under urgency. I want the Minister to take a call\u2014certainly when we have more discussion in the Committee stage\u2014to explain why this bill is being rushed through under an urgency motion. I think it is an insult. It is an insult to this Parliament but, more important, it is an insult to the good people of this country, who are denied the opportunity to come to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e16bcd8422842b7badf4c47c53b9be6\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CSir Richard\u201D shouldn\u2019t treat us like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279becc0d0b5c46aeba63603db82ed361\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. I am sure there will be people who support this bill; they should be given the opportunity to come to the select committee and make comment on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EBut\u2014and, I think, more important\u2014people should also be able to come and say how they believe the bill could be improved: suggest things they think could be better, and other actions this Government could take to improve the bill or to live up to the Government\u2019s promises of getting tough on and cutting crime. I cannot wait to see the crime rate drop dramatically in this country in the next few months under a Labour Government\u2014I am sorry; I meant under a National Government. It did actually drop under a Labour Government. That was a slip of the tongue, but the crime rate did drop under a Labour Government. I cannot wait to see how under a National-led Government the crime rate will drop. This is a glowing example of the National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government having no substance and no style of doing things. A myriad of meaningful pieces of legislation could be before this House. We could be having a question time where we in Opposition could be fulfilling our role of holding this Government to account for all the terrible things it has done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022430d67a3fedd432aab96db7ab3290f12\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why they\u2019re doing urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de24deb219ab4ce784fdaad8d73b24f8\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; this is why we are under urgency. Why do we have this flimflam piece of legislation before the House at the moment? Why are we going through every single stage at this point in time? What would we normally be doing? We would be having a question time. We would be asking the members on that side of the House why the Government has slashed KiwiSaver, why the Government has provided tax cuts for the wealthy at the expense of modest income earners and families, and why the Government has brought in the 90-day bill without taking it to a select committee. Why has the Government done that, at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239747a40f6504d629c6e7ce965bd3c75\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I thought we were on to the bail bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225e3d19f54694dcab358f799e42b3bd7\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Members will see how it all comes together. I thank Mr Power. If he follows this, he will see that it will come together very soon. In response to Mr Power, who is wondering why, I will suggest what the National Government, which is looking towards a brighter future, could have done. It could have build on better legislation\u2014on legislation introduced by the Labour-led Government. It could have built on paid parental leave. It could have built on 4 weeks\u2019 holiday, early childhood education, apprenticeships, KiwiSaver, Working for Families, and much, much more. Instead, it did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EWhen I chaired the Justice and Electoral Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a7402f81ba54420bbf41d46a30e186f\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: The heydays.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022595ac181d2974ff9beb3f7d030707136\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That was in the heydays. I acknowledge that at times Chester Borrows was on that committee with me, and I acknowledge that working with him now on the new Justice and Electoral Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a19332647e446e69845bb9f6e8e90d6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: So lucky!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e5c758de0804407b577b320df1019df\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014he often makes pretty meaningful contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6e78e709fec42809d2d924378a2d12d\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s nice to see Mr Worth awake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5bfafb9229f4668a23ae8ad0d4ebfe0\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Worth is also on the committee, and that is very good, as well. I know that Chester Borrows, as chair of that committee, will comment on how impressive it is to see submitters come to select committees and be given\u2014[Interruption]. Well, that is right. But I know that Chester Borrows would have liked and enjoyed people coming to select committees. The Law and Order Committee chair\u2014who is the Law and Order Committee chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eadf3ea38cfd480aad978e43c2d0e76c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Sandra Goudie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6c66e8a5c5448109dfec93ad372fef3\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. Under the expert stewardship of Sandra Goudie\u2014oh, that is why the bill did not go to a select committee; I get it now. I am sorry, but I get it. The Government could have sent the bill to the Justice and Electoral Committee, where I am sure Chester Borrows would have been happy to have it. I think that every chair of every select committee, and any member of a select committee, would acknowledge the committees\u2019 robust debate and input\u2014be it positive or negative\u2014and how effective it is to have that submission process. To deny that process just because the Government has no confidence in the chair of its select committee is absolutely ridiculous. This bill should have gone to a select committee because I know that meaningful input from the public and from organisations would have only enhanced this bill. So why is the bill being rushed through? Why are the public, organisations, and the police not being given the opportunity to comment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EIn respect of Labour\u2019s Bail Amendment Act 2007, which this bill seeks to repeal, Justice Heath actually recognised that it did not raise the test; it was more a codification of what was practised. Remand figures\u2014if I can talk about remand figures\u2014show that the prison population has not decreased. In fact, despite the 2007 amendment to the Bail Act\u2014and I have some figures here that I will share with the House\u2014the remand population totalled 1,733 and comprised 21 percent of the total prison muster. By July 2008 remands had increased by almost 6 percent, and constituted 23 percent of the total prison muster. So the Act certainly did no harm, as the National Party is claiming; it really just shows that this bill is meaningless. And this bill does no harm. The harm, as I said before, is in its not going to the select committee, and in the wasting of good time. The bill does not achieve anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EIt is lightweight; it is a slogan\u2014a slogan piece of legislation. It is a hoax on the public, and it is another example of sloganeering, where National is grandstanding on what is essentially just a repeal of the clarification of what is current practice. This is the National practice of smoke and mirrors. If National really wanted to get tough on crime, it would bring into further effect the two-thirds parole law that Labour has already passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb2a4fc6ff7349c7b45fc4df6baafc10\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Minister do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aadef0271454e8595a7783c862a85e9\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I ask when the Minister will do that. Instead, this bill is about the scoring of political points; it shows the wishy-washy sloganeering, electioneering method of the National Party. National\u2019s claims that this amendment will make it easier to get bail are not supported by remand figures. I look forward to members on the other side of the House in upcoming debates actually clarifying for this House what this bill will achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022 data-id=\u002275d49be4c51f4651a85e6ee7acba4095\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275d49be4c51f4651a85e6ee7acba4095\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am surprised. I may be new in this House but I am surprised that the Labour Party seems to have forgotten that we have had the biggest submission from the public: it was called the election, and those guys lost. Law and order was one of the major points on which New Zealand voted against Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EI rise in support of the Bail Amendment Bill. The purpose of this bill is to put public safety first. Fifteen thousand people marched in South Auckland to say that it is not right that people like Navtej Singh, Joanne Wang, and Yin Ping Yang died at the hands of people who had been bailed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed635f0385f14d45aef483403c7659da\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: I will reiterate what I said before the lunch break\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228586848b5c47488a916ba8a7e165e7df\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4a4ecc3078945dba9cb3cd80e5c507c\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps you have short memories; I will just remind you. You keep saying that public submissions were not made\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022525c1dab07264dbf8733fe63ddaeabd5\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Yesterday and the day before we had long dissertations from the Deputy Prime Minister, interrupting speeches, when the word \u201Cyou\u201D was mentioned. I think it is only fair that if the Government wants to play that game all through the urgency motion, the Opposition will respond. So I am doing that now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ea84de4836a42369c286255f0952aa7\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: In reference to the member\u2019s comments, I remind him of course that we had the same problem with Ms Pillay, as you will recall, Mr Assistant Speaker, because you were in the Chair at the time. The Opposition did not interrupt her speech at that point. The member knows that the interruption of another member\u2019s speech needs to be for a significant point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211e3d90e75af4566bb7cfbc1a5bf7a4e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Could I take this matter a stage further, because at times when listening to these speeches, and occasionally with some of the points of order, there is a little bit of a problem about the ruling that has been given over many years on this matter, which is worth exploring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThere are two ways in which people use the word \u201Cyou\u201D in conversation and in speeches. There is the sense where we use the word \u201Cyou\u201D when it is referring to you, and in the House that means you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It cannot actually mean \u201Cyou, Mr Power\u201D, although if one says \u201Cyou, Mr Power\u201D, then that is actually slightly different. It is quite clearly not \u201Cyou, Mr Speaker\u201D. However, also in absolutely normal English usage, the term \u201Cyou\u201D is meant as a substitute for \u201Cone\u201D\u2014in other words, a general person who is not a specific person. I have listened to speeches a couple of times when people have used \u201Cyou\u201D in that respect. It is actually a bit trivial to raise a point of order when people have used the word \u201Cyou\u201D in that context or other contexts. \u201CYou did this. You said that. You, you, you \u2026\u201D is clearly referring to \u201Cyourself\u201D, but if it is used in the innate general sense of \u201Cone\u201D, or a person, then it seems to me it is not worth pulling up the business of the House for interruptions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295f91cf853124f42b46ad05d614caadd\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Each member has made a very good point. It is not acceptable to use the word \u201Cyou\u201D. The Hon Dr Michael Cullen makes a good point\u2014that in fact there are many uses of the word. I tend to be reasonable with its use, because we have some new members here who need to learn the rules. But in response to the Hon Simon Power, I say that simply because people do not object at the time, it can only be taken to mean that they accept the rules. If people object, they should say so at the time. An old pearl I learnt in history some years ago is \u201Csilence means consent\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c434ea0eb6439ca70332c555b0806a\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: I support this amendment bill because we should never again allow the senseless killing of people like Navtej Singh. He was a hard-working father, husband, and son, working at his liquor shop, minding his own business behind his counter, when people walked into his shop and shot him dead. Joanne Wang was run over while she was trying to stop the people who had snatched her bag. The bastards ran over her while her son watched her die. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EWhat about the Korean tourist killed in Nelson by Hayden Brent McKenzie? McKenzie was already serving a life sentence for murder when he killed Jae Hyeon Kim in 2003. Kim\u2019s body was not even discovered until October this year. What anguish his family must have gone through, not knowing, and then to discover he was killed by this very hateful person! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EI would like Opposition members to read the victim impact report, to see what kind of damage these criminals do to innocent families. Perhaps they do not actually have the emotions to understand what it is like to be a victim. I mentioned it in my maiden speech\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be3d962871bc4d8180cb2b46261c17bb\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: That is very patronising. What would the member know about anything\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e42bcf7aa9fb4dfdb17c7ee678b2b38e\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: I have worked as a reporter, and I have worked as an adviser for the police in Auckland. In my experience, and from the things I have heard the police say and watch them do, I know they are chasing the same offenders over and over again\u2014offenders who have been bailed. That is a waste of the police\u2019s valuable time. We need to protect the hard-working, law-abiding citizens of New Zealand instead of protecting the rights of these criminals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EAs I said, and as the Opposition keeps forgetting, we did not have public submissions, apparently. But as far as I am concerned we had the biggest public submission on 8 November. It was called the election, and the people of New Zealand said no to Labour. One of the very, very important things on which they voted against Labour, now in Opposition, was the law and order issue. More than 15,000 people marched in South Auckland because they were sick and tired of 9 years of non-performance by the then Government. Has the Opposition forgotten that? We are here doing something, instead of wasting the time of this House, and taxpayers\u2019 valuable money, so those members should just accept it. We are here to do a job, and we are doing it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022 data-id=\u0022b93902ec18104b80a94823079b79f4cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b93902ec18104b80a94823079b79f4cb\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Getting tough on crime is always the hallmark of a new Government. If we roll the clock back to 1999, one of the baby steps of the new Labour Government at that time was the introduction of the Bail Act 2000. Eight years down the track we have amendments proposed to get even tougher on crime by amending that 2000 Act. The effect of the Bail Act 2000 was immediate and severe. Between March 1997 and March 2007 the sentence muster increased 35 percent, from 4,493 to 6,053. During the same time, however, the remand muster increased a massive 214 percent, from 550 to 1,724. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003ESeven years down the track, conventional wisdom, assisted by case law, suggested that the original 2000 Act should be refined to clarify that the risk should be more than nebulous and insignificant, and should be a real and significant risk. It is a sensible suggestion, one would think, to articulate a clear and concise interpretation of the law. So last year the 2007 change was made to better clarify the law, in line with case law on the subject, particularly the Court of Appeal\u2019s decision in R v Hines. In introducing the concept of a real and significant risk, this brought the legal consideration of bail into line with how the Department of Corrections currently does its risk assessment reports. Again, it was a useful initiative, one would think, to see links being made between two justice sector agencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EPerhaps the most salient point of the 2007 legislation was the obligation it placed on the police to provide evidence to the court on risk. Why is that so important? The onus to show one\u2019s evidence means there is a process to counter any possible bias or prejudice. Decisions about granting bail are therefore made on the basis of evidence and a robust process. The responsibility to prevent prejudice or bias being of undue influence is vital in order to counter the problems that have emerged when there have been any elements of discretion in the system at large. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThe unintended consequences of the use of discretion in the criminal justice sector is an issue that has concerned the M\u0101ori Party, but also is an issue of concern to many other commentators in the sector. The recent work undertaken by the former Government, called Effective Interventions, describes the fact that four to five times as many M\u0101ori as Europeans are apprehended, prosecuted, and convicted; six to seven times as many M\u0101ori are given a custodial sentence or were serving prison sentences; and 11 times as many are remanded in custody awaiting trial. To break the remand statistics down further, in 2003, while 10 out of every 100,000 European people were remanded in prison, the figure for M\u0101ori was 110 out of every 100,000. But it gets worse. Last year\u2019s report by the Ombudsman Mel Smith, which investigated issues involving the criminal justice sector, revealed that there has been a marked increase in the volume of offenders who have been remanded in custody. Between 1991 and 2006 the number of remands as a ratio of all inmates grew from 9.7 percent to 20 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThese statistics are all going in the wrong direction. Twenty years ago, Moana Jackson, in his groundbreaking research The Maori and the Criminal Justice System: a new perspective\u2014he whaipainga hou recorded that when all necessary variables have been considered, M\u0101ori record instances where their sentences, or the rejection of a M\u0101ori-based alternative, can be attributed only to judicial insensitivity and prejudice. Ten years ago a joint Te Puni K\u014Dkiri and Ministry of Justice study found that the court system is meaningless to many M\u0101ori; too many M\u0101ori are receiving poor-quality legal advice; prosecution practices for M\u0101ori differ from those of non-M\u0101ori; lawyers, court staff, and the judiciary have been found guilty of culturally inappropriate behaviour; M\u0101ori offenders are receiving inappropriate sentences; and imprisonment has been proven to be ineffective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003ELess than one year ago the Ombudsman suggested that a royal commission of inquiry was urgently required to undertake a comprehensive review of the criminal justice system. The reason for his call for an inquiry is spelt out in black and white in the programme for action for M\u0101ori in the Effective Interventions programme pursued by the previous Government. In that report a specific recommendation was introduced to investigate the impact of the exercise of discretionary powers in the criminal justice system. The Ombudsman and the Chief District Court Judge have both publicly supported the value of the real and significant provision. Their argument is that without this provision too many people are remanded into custody unnecessarily, and this is particularly of concern for people who are facing low-level charges or non-custodial sentences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EGiven all this background, the proposal to remove the words \u201Creal and significant\u201D from the Bail Act reverts the legal position back to that prior to 2007 and provokes further questions. Why would one want to remove specificity from legislation to deliberately return to the concept of risk and, with it, the attendant problem of loose interpretation? Why, when the Ombudsman and key justice sector agencies all appear to agree that there is an element of discretion that works against M\u0101ori outcomes in the justice sector, would anyone seek to take the risk to introduce the possibility around even more discretion? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThere is a very key issue that I believe every member in the House and every party represented would absolutely agree on. That is the fundamental importance of public safety. We must not expose the people to any element of risk, and we must do all that we can do to restore a sense of peace within our communities. But we cannot agree to legislation that invites loose interpretation or an element of subjectivity or discretion, when there is a real alternative in sight. That alternative was to tighten up the law, and to make it more specific by defining risk as being real and significant, as the 2007 amendments did. That was why, when the amendment to clarify and tighten the provisions came before the House last year as part of the Criminal Justice Reform Bill, the M\u0101ori Party supported the legislation. We supported that legislation then, because we wanted to ensure that offenders are not unnecessarily remanded in custody rather than on bail. Our policy position has always been that we seek initiatives to lower the incarceration rate and to reduce the use of prison as a response to offending. We want to protect the public from harm, and the clarification of real and significant risk does that, in our estimation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EBut we are also keen to engage in a much wider debate around the Government\u2019s law and order policy, and we anticipate that Minister Sharples, in his capacity as Associate Minister of Corrections, will be an active participant in that debate. The debate must consider these three issues posed by the Ombudsman last year: the wide philosophical issue of what is the purpose of a remand, and whether and when bail or custody is appropriate; that the increase in prison muster is undesirable in terms of the impact on offenders and families; and the demand for increased Government expenditure on prisons. The overrepresentation of M\u0101ori should be an area of significant focus. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002256a70aa453f8418d8b42582efd8b0a94\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Bail Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 106\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 3; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220cd2b1c13a3146f795cf2ff1dd8f3522\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u002252b6d317c8674541863eaf8babdd144b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252b6d317c8674541863eaf8babdd144b\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Bail Amendment Bill be now read a second time. I thank members of the House for their support for the Bail Amendment Bill, despite some initial criticism from the lead Opposition party. I am pleased to see that sense has prevailed, and that it has decided to vote for this legislation. Of course, any position taken other than that one would be completely unsustainable in the medium to long term with the wider New Zealand public, so in my view the right move has been made. It was interesting, though, that the Hon Clayton Cosgrove and the Hon Phil Goff could not quite bring themselves, during their first reading speeches, to say how the Labour Party would be voting on this legislation. It was left to my good friend the Hon Annette King, who was placed in the difficult position of being third speaker, to have to declare after all that to-ing and fro-ing that \u201CWe won\u2019t be voting against it.\u201D I am delighted that sense has taken hold in the Labour Party and that it will be supporting this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EAs the House is in urgency and this is a relatively simple bill, I do not intend to talk for long at this point. But I will address one or two things that were raised by members opposite, in particular during the first reading. In particular, I will address Mr Cosgrove\u2019s point about the length of this bill. I say to the honourable member Mr Cosgrove that the bill is short because it amends only one section of the Bail Act. That section is the main provision governing the decision as to whether to grant someone bail or remand that person in custody. I know that the member considers himself to be a bit of a fighter in this regard, so I hope he will take the time to understand the legislation that he comments on from time to time when it comes before the House,.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E As well as the Hon Phil Goff and the Hon Annette King, the member also raised the issue of Justice Heath\u2019s comments and clarification around the tests for and provision of bail. [Interruption] I take the Hon Annette King at her word; I refer these comments, then, to the Hon Phil Goff and the Hon Clayton Cosgrove. The High Court has actually been divided over whether, and to what extent, the real and significant test changed the threshold for remand and custody. Members opposite were right to refer to Justice Heath\u2019s comments on and discussion of that issue. However, for example, I am sure members opposite will know that Justice Gendall, in the Crown and Williams, 11 November 2007, granted the defendant bail \u201Cif only because of the rather more stringent test provided in the Bail Amendment Act.\u201D This bill is designed to make it crystal clear what Parliament\u2019s intention\u2014not judges\u2019 interpretation, but Parliament\u2019s intention\u2014is in respect of the bail legislation. That is why I am pleased that such a large majority of the House has considered this legislation worthwhile to support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThis bill does arise from a difference in opinion about what the law on bail is intended to achieve. As I said earlier, although the members opposite have referred to the very honest explanatory note on the front page of this bill, where it states: \u201CThe amendments were intended to clarify the law rather than make any significant changes.\u201D, what all three of the front-bench members of the Labour Party failed to do was to read the next sentence, which states: \u201CHowever, the New Zealand Law Society, the Police Association, the Police Prosecution Service, and a number of High Court judges have all said these changes have made it easier for defendants to get bail.\u201D It would have been helpful if they had read the full passage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EBail is one of the cornerstones of our criminal justice system. It impacts on the safety of the community and the integrity of the court process. It goes without saying that it is important to get it right. That is why this clarification is so definitely needed. In a civilised society, people charged with criminal offending, as I said in the first reading, have certain rights. They have the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty, and the right to their liberty. However, as I said earlier, there comes a point where an individual\u2019s rights must give way to those of the wider community. In an individual case the court is in the best position to decide when the risk that a defendant poses to the community and the administration of justice outweighs the defendant\u2019s right to liberty. The court receives a range of information about the defendant, from both the prosecution and the defence. That includes information about criminal history, any history of breaching bail or court orders, any history of offending on bail, and information about the defendant\u2019s personal circumstances, such as family and living arrangements, and employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe Bail Act, as originally enacted, recognised that the court is best placed to make the decisions on bail or remand. The Act gave the court a wide discretion, simply requiring the court to consider whether there was a risk the defendant would abscond, interfere with witnesses or evidence, or offend on bail. It was up to the court to decide whether the defendants\u2019 risk justified remanding them in custody. In 2007, as part of the criminal justice reform suite of changes to three or four Acts\u2014legislation that had in its explanatory note a stated desire to contain the prison population, and that included the changes to bail, I say to Mr Goff\u2014the previous Government limited the court\u2019s discretion in two ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EFirst, the previous Government prevented the courts from remanding a defendant in custody, unless he or she posed a real and significant risk\u2014quite different from the legislation that Phil Goff often proudly tells the communities of New Zealand that he was responsible for. He was responsible, but since that time the legislation has slid well away from the tests and standards that he set as Minister of Justice during the third term of the previous Labour Government. Second, the previous Government limited how the courts could take breaches of bail conditions into account. Under the 2007 amendments, breaches could be taken into account only if they were relevant to assessing a defendant\u2019s risk. The effect of those changes on judicial behaviour is unclear. In particular, the High Court has been divided on whether the real and significant test reflected existing judicial practice or raised the threshold for remand in custody. However, it seems clear from the statistical changes that the result has been fewer people being remanded in custody. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThis bill repeals the real and significant test, restoring the court\u2019s discretion to decide whether a defendant\u2019s risk is unacceptable. We trust in our courts to make the right decision, based on a full assessment of the relevant information. Equally significantly, this bill also restores the court\u2019s ability to remand a defendant in custody as a sanction for breach of bail conditions. As I have said before in the first reading of this bill, this bill is not all that the Government is doing in regard to bail. We will be taking a close look at the bail system, to make sure that it achieves the level of safety the public expects and deserves, and that it contributes to an effective and efficient court system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EI finish by saying that despite all the yelling and screaming by the Labour Party members in their objections through the first reading of this bill, we are delighted that they have seen the error of their ways and learnt from their mistakes, and that they will be supporting this legislation through its stages. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u002256c9551915844d43a78d4d1ec7ddfcc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256c9551915844d43a78d4d1ec7ddfcc5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E The Hon Simon Power quoted a submission when he talked about the notion that High Court judges were split in their opinions. He quoted one judicial decision, but I point him away from Justice Heath to the case outlined by colleagues, the Crown v Hines and others, where the Court of Appeal, the higher court in the hierarchy, implicitly agreed with the High Court that, to amount to just cause for continued detention, the risk that the defendant may interfere with the witness should be, as stated: \u201Cmore than nebulous and insignificant and should be a real and significant risk.\u201D Those are the words of the Court of Appeal, the higher court in the hierarchy. So whether or not there are different views on the High Court bench, and the member\u2014being a lawyer, I am not\u2014would understand the hierarchy of that court system, the higher court in the hierarchy, the Court of Appeal, held the same view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe reason Labour will not vote against this legislation is that it makes no significant change. That is the truth; it makes no significant change to the legislation. When, or if, this is passed in the next hour, day, week, or months\u2014depending how long we are here for\u2014I do not believe that New Zealanders as a whole will feel any more secure than they do today. I am pleased that Mr Power stated that there are other things the National Party is planning in respect of law and order; we will wait with bated breath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022352e70ca7f9b42628132665b37eef169\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: You won\u2019t have to wait long!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bdac3ed69ed469b8a86b5ff0ba9025b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: He says we will not have to wait long. We would not have to wait for any time at all if he and his colleagues would pick up the phone, ring Government House, and ask the Governor-General if he could pop down here to sign off the Order in Council to trigger the two-thirds parole provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb2e99d44ab540fb8be2be6ef50d135c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Why didn\u2019t you go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228de99ad5709b4a5eac6926b2de707a70\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: We are not in Government\u2014you are! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a12201afdd046098b758012c891ca8d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: It was there for 3 months. Why didn\u2019t you go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a076fe83c3b431ba664ee64bebdeea5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Power has forgotten that if he takes the pay, and takes the warrant as Minister of Justice, he also has to take the responsibility, and, ultimately, the flak. I say to the Minister that he is in Government. I cannot ring the Governor-General and ask His Excellency to pop down, and I cannot give the Governor-General an Order in Council. But Mr Power could do that without any bureaucracy, and without any time at all, not even impinging on the time frame or scheduling of this Parliament, because the Act is passed. It requires mere triggering through an Order in Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ENow the two-thirds parole provision, that would do something substantial today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233b3280f244b439d99aa735368e87419\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: All in good time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219bc295523ba4c5f944f30643ee15c65\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Minister how much time? When is it\u2014today? We heard Melissa Lee who apparently has a monopoly on sympathy and concern for victims. I say that is arrogant; I say that is patronising. Maybe when she has spent more than 5 minutes here she will know that every member of this Chamber has empathy and concern for the victims of tragedies when they happen out there. When the member has been here for more than 2 minutes she might lose the arrogant edge. I note that even her colleagues would share with me a sympathy and concern for victims. She does not have a monopoly on that. I ask the Minister of Justice when we will get a substantive action from the National Government that is not political piffle and propaganda as this legislation is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis legislation is designed so that National Party members can beat their chests to the public and say that they have done something in their first 100 days in Government, knowing that it is meaningless. I ask Mr Power when we will get to the parole legislation. When will he ring the Governor-General? The phone is on the hook and the telecommunications work. Mr Brownlee could pop down there between lunch and afternoon tea and knock on the door. He could immediately trigger that substantive legislation. I assume that it would be supported by the Sensible Sentencing Trust, the ACT Party, and most of the parties in this Parliament. It would be supported by us, because we passed the Act. I would like to know when we are going to see something substantive come out of the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis is not substantive legislation. When we talk about the length of it, maybe I should explain in slightly more detail what I mean. There is no substance to it. There are four clauses. There is no meaning to it. It contradicts people like the Ombudsman, and the view of Justice Heath, and it contradicts the view of the Court of Appeal. If we are going to play knock for knock with the odd High Court judge then go to the Court of Appeal, the higher court in the hierarchy, we see that it contradicts their view. It contradicts the view of the many case law and common law precedents that have been set, to provide more certainty, more consistency, and more precision around what \u201Crisk\u201D meant. I fail to see how one could make an argument against the definition of \u201Creal risk\u201D. Does that mean we argue for \u201Cunreal risk\u201D or \u201Csubstantial risk\u201D? Does that mean we argue for a lesser risk? That does not make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis legislation is about Mr Power saying to the communities that bail was easier to get than before. The remand figures show that that was not true. Even his own bill, as Annette King referred to, shows that the number of those offending whilst on bail went down under the previous Government. This is a bit of political propaganda so National members can all go out to their constituents after they have had their Christmas feed and say that they have done something. Many constituents do not have a legal frame of reference, or perhaps a legal qualification, to be able to look in depth into legislation, although judging by the simple nature of this bill from \u201CSimple Simon\u201D, they could probably get it in 5 seconds. They may well be hoodwinked for a time that this is something substantial and gritty. I tell Simon Power that we will wait to see the practical results of this legislation and when the next set of bail figures come out, and the next set of figures after that and beyond, I will look forward to questioning Mr Power and his ilk, and to Mr Power trying to justify what material difference this legislation has made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis legislation is a hoax. This is really a hoax, and in many respects it is a tragic hoax. Indeed, the election provided a vehicle where people voiced their concern on law and order matters. We saw victims in the media express and note the tragedies that had occurred in their lives. The National Party promised huge results, and very quickly. Its members promised real, substantial, and gritty legislation. To kick off that programme we have this, which is propaganda. It is absolute propaganda. Those victims are out there\u2014perhaps some of the victims that Ms Lee seems to have a monopoly of all knowledge on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d2491220ffa4bd8a4a6c66ba17641f6\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d40561302cb45aab967b651e28418d6\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: False start, Chester. Not only does Mr Brownlee\u2014who was shadow Leader of the House for 9 years\u2014not know the rules, and obviously Mr Power\u2019s tutorials using Little Golden Books and visual aids for Mr Brownlee did not work, but that legend in his own lifetime, Mr \u201CBurrows\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b4f229d0c649cbad03d92e3db3b71f\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Borrows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a478c42cedb44fd9958cc7b47c49690e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mr Borrows does not know the rules either. The victims that Ms Lee referred to were crying out for gritty and substantial legislation based on National Party promises. If those victims are listening, I say to them that they can have that today. They can have that immediately with a phone call from Simon Power that triggers a two-thirds parole scheme. They can have that now. The question for Mr Power is why he will not do that. If he wanted to, he still could ram through this piece of flimflam and piffle, and also ring the Governor-General to put through the parole legislation. He could do that, as well. He could say: \u201COK, we are going to ram through this bail propaganda, this political pamphlet. But I am going to go down and ring the Governor-General today and put the parole provisions in place.\u201D I ask Mr Power if he will do that today. The silence is deafening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EMs Lee may wish to go back to telephone the victims she represents, and tell them that Mr Power has the power to trigger that parole legislation today but refuses to do it. He refuses to do it. She may then want to explain to those victims why it is that Mr Power will not exercise his ministerial prerogatives, and put through substantial law and order legislation, as passed when Labour was in Government. I ask Mr Power to consider it again. He may want to take another call in the Committee stage. Will he ring the Governor-General now and pass the parole provisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022 data-id=\u002289fdb7c3e47942a0b297384adc251615\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289fdb7c3e47942a0b297384adc251615\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make two or three points in respect of comments made, especially by the last speaker. I think it was a real shame to witness what happened when a new member of the House was making some very salient points in respect of this matter. Ms Lee was referring to an incident she had referred to in her maiden speech, which was about a home invasion. In her speech just before lunch, she came to a point where she was referring to her own experience. She caught herself, and it appeared to be from an emotive point of view. Straight away those three in the front row over there jumped in and tried to turn the knife, and she was dissuaded from what she was about to say. They were saying: \u201COh, you have the market cornered on victims.\u201D, and all the rest of it. She was about to amplify that, but they turned her away from doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EWe all bring something to this House. We all bring experience to this House, so she intended to bring before this House her experience in relation to this matter. The lack of respect shown to a new member by members from that side of the House is completely indicative of where they are, and it shows the shallowness of their understanding around these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EAt lunchtime I wandered across the road to the High Court and I listened to the returned verdict in the Jhia Te Tua case\u2014a case that got right to the heart of provincial New Zealand, of gang activity, and of offending in this country. That particular case turned the former Government\u2019s mind round in relation to gangs. Its gang strategy that had been abandoned at the end of 2004 was, all of a sudden, picked up again. Legislation was introduced to the House in a rush, because those members wanted to be seen to be dealing with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EToday Labour members want to be seen to be supporting the Bail Amendment Bill, but they have done nothing but scoff about it since it was introduced this morning. They have given every reason in the world as to why no one should support it, but they will vote for this bill for political purposes. It is not for any other reason, whatsoever. They know that if they do not support this legislation, there is no way they can stand on a stump or in a public hall, or speak to a policeman, a defence counsel, or anybody else, and try to explain to them that they have their heads around criminal offending in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EI look forward to seeing them support this legislation. I would love for them to support this bill for the right reasons, but they will not do so, because they do not know what the right reasons are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c49accfd02c64a638bc28c5178569e22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c49accfd02c64a638bc28c5178569e22\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I begin by picking up a couple of comments from Chester Borrows. The reason this side reacted as it did to Melissa Lee was that she arrogantly assumed that nobody on this side of the House could empathise with victims. I have had relations killed by people acting illegally. I can empathise, and I do not need to be told by one of the member\u2019s colleagues that I do not understand how a victim feels or how the family of that victim feels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWe had this speech from Melissa Lee. It was straight off the campaign trail, and it was exactly what she had told the people of New Zealand: tomorrow\u2014with a National Government\u2014these things will never happen again! The rhetoric was: \u201CWe will never again have to see a case like Navtej Singh.\u201D As a former police officer, Chester Borrows knows that that is rubbish. Chester Borrows knows that the laws we pass in this country do not determine when a homicide will happen. I tell Ms Lee to use the empty rhetoric for as long as she, as a member, feels that that is appropriate, but to know that if she has been telling her constituency that, they will hold her to the expectation that all of these crimes will disappear tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThe member knows\u2014if she knows anything at all, and maybe she does not yet\u2014that the Bail Amendment Bill will do not one jot to protect a single New Zealander from homicide committed by a person on bail. The member Chester Borrows knows, and the Minister himself knows, that this legislation will have the most marginal effect of anything that happens in terms of protecting the community from crime. It provides for 10 extra remand beds in the next year. Each year 15,000 people are remanded in custody on bail, and at any one time there are 1,800 people. This will affect 10 of them. The 10 people, if that figure is, indeed, correct, will be those whose level of risk is the most marginal. That is what this bill is about, is it not, I ask Mr Power. It is about those grey areas, the marginal areas, the areas where we really cannot tell whether the person will be a risk. That does not include alleged homicide offenders. That does not include people who have committed serious crimes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ELet me ask the Minister another question. We are supporting this legislation\u2014or we are not opposing it\u2014because it does not make any real difference. It actually reinstates the legislation that I passed in 2000. After 2000 the Court of Appeal decided that the word \u201Crisk\u201D without any qualification was a little vague. Therefore, the court decided that it would interpret what the law said. Mr Power, as a lawyer, knows that when we pass law, the impact that that law has depends on the interpretation of the court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThis is what the Court of Appeal said in 2002 in the Hines case: \u201C\u2026 to amount to just cause for continued detention the risk that a defendant may interfere with a witness\u201D\u2014but it could also apply to committing another crime\u2014\u201Cshould be more than nebulous and insignificant and should be a real and significant risk.\u201D So what the Government is doing in the House today is taking the law back to my law. The interpretation of my law is that of the Court of Appeal in R v Hines, and, therefore, we have exactly what we have now\u2014that the interpretation of the court is that it cannot be a nebulous risk; it has to be a real one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI ask which member of this House would say that we should make a decision to put a person in custody, based on a nebulous risk\u2014one that we cannot determine. The Minister in charge of this bill, who is a lawyer, would stand proudly behind the view that people are innocent until proven guilty, but we qualify that by saying that we must protect the safety of the community. That is what I did with the legislation in 2000. In fact, Mr Power knows that I reversed what his colleague Mr Ryall put in the legislation. I said that we judge a person\u2019s risk on what his or her track record has been. I stated, in the legislation in 2000, that if a person has been a hard-core and repeat offender, then the onus of proof should change. It should change, I say to Chester Borrows, from the police having to prove to the court that it is not safe to have that person in the community, to that person having to prove to the court that he or she is safe to be in the community. That is what made the difference. That is the really important law on bail in this country. That is what saw 2,000 more people being held in custody while they were awaiting trial. That was the hard legislation, I say to Mr Garrett. That was the tough legislation, not this flimflam that we have in front of the House today that does not change things one iota. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Power that this bill is simply window dressing\u2014the accusation made against Mr Power by the pre-eminent expert on sentencing and criminal law at Otago University, Professor Geoff Hall. It is window dressing. Why are we sitting here, under urgency, passing legislation that is simply window dressing? If the Minister wants to do something, then why does he not go to the Governor-General today\u2014this afternoon\u2014and say that he has the Bail Amendment Act 2007, which states that anybody serving a short-term sentence will have to serve that sentence in full, and that anyone serving more than 2 years will have to, as a minimum, do two-thirds of the sentence? That will be tough. That will put a few more hundred, maybe a few more thousand, into prison, I say to Mr Power. His Government can do that right now. If the Minister really thinks he wants to be tough, then why has he and his Government not taken that action, rather than coming into the House, saying that the Bail Amendment Bill is his top priority? This bill will not make any difference. It does not change the law. It might put 10 marginal people, or 10 beds, into the remand system out of the 15,000 who go through it. Why is the Minister wasting the time of the House? I will answer that question, because the Minister has his head down\u2014he knows the answer. This is all for show. He is the show pony of the House today. He is there to persuade Melissa Lee and his other colleagues that he is tough. He is tough on something that makes no difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI turn my attention to ACT for a moment. I went through the election campaign, and the ACT hoardings\u2014all over Botany, all over Auckland, and all over the country\u2014that were saying \u201Czero tolerance for crime\u201D. The ACT Party told us: \u201CThree strikes and you\u2019re out\u201425 years without parole.\u201D, and everybody said: \u201CBy God, they are tough. Gee, they will really sock it to the criminals.\u201D Then the day after the election I was listening to Radio New Zealand National, and heard David Garrett speaking. He was asked whether this policy would have a horrendous impact on the prisons. \u201COh no,\u201D he said, \u201Cbecause it is not retrospective. It does not come into effect for 20 years.\u201D I wondered what I was hearing. This is electoral fraud like the country has never seen before. The ACT Party was saying how tough it would be, and the day after the election admitting that its tough law would have no impact for 20 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EMr Garrett has thought about this a bit further, because I later read in one of the newspapers that it is not 20 years\u2014that was a mistake\u2014it is 15 years! There will be no impact for 15 years. Here we have a Government supported by a tough law and order party that has just committed the greatest electoral fraud this country has ever seen. The greatest electoral fraud this country has ever seen\u2014the promise was \u201Cthree strikes and you\u2019re out\u201D, but the day after the election that all changed. There was not a word from Mr Garrett when we were on a panel together debating the issue during the campaign, and not a word before the election, but after the election he admitted that his law would have no impact for 15 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI ask Melissa Lee whether her constituents would want to wait 15 years before this measure has any impact. Now that she has heard the argument, does she understand that this failed bill is nothing more than flimflam, nothing more than window dressing? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI am serious about protecting the safety of New Zealanders. My track record can be seen\u2014the Bail Act, the Sentencing Act, and the Parole Act. They were opposed by Mr Power\u2019s party. And when I raised the matter of the Bail Bill, Tony Ryall said it was too tough. So those members opposed it, and they opposed the Sentencing Bill and the Parole Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThis Government was elected on a lie\u2014that it would make a difference, that it had a plan. It had no plan; it still has no plan. That is obvious from this legislation and the sentencing legislation\u2014it is all a fraud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022141bdf0ee67a4513bf2a11fc421e4789\u0022 data-id=\u0022db2015cd70914ff685eeba1ebc2910a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022141bdf0ee67a4513bf2a11fc421e4789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db2015cd70914ff685eeba1ebc2910a2\u0022\u003EHon PANSY WONG (Minister for Ethnic Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Labour has reverted to its old form. When those members have nothing substantial to say, what do they do? They launch a personal attack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022141bdf0ee67a4513bf2a11fc421e4789\u0022\u003EIs it not strange that the Hon Phil Goff and all his colleagues are attacking this bill as being a showpiece with no substance, yet they are voting for it? Why are they voting for it? They should show the true spirit of their position. Suddenly, the Hon Phil Goff has come into this House and said that this bail law is not tough enough. Well, after 9 long years\u20149 long years\u2014in Government, and after losing the election, suddenly those members have woken up and they have come back to the House to say they would have done a lot better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022141bdf0ee67a4513bf2a11fc421e4789\u0022\u003EI will share some personal observations. My hard-working, knowledgable, and intelligent new colleague Melissa Lee MP is a lot more in touch with the New Zealand public than the Hon Phil Goff is. At a public meeting during the election campaign, the then Minister of Justice was trying to tell people that rising crime was a figment of their imagination. He was telling them that New Zealand is safe, when none of the people in the audience were feeling safe. I am not too sure what mandate and what message he has that makes him feel he is in touch. I can assure him that Melissa Lee is really in touch with not just Korean and Asian people but the New Zealand public as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022141bdf0ee67a4513bf2a11fc421e4789\u0022\u003EBefore I sit down I congratulate my hard-working and stick-to-his-promise colleague the new Minister of Justice, the Hon Simon Power. What did he do? He went out and campaigned on a promise to bring in a raft of legislation to fulfil the promise of our leader, the Prime Minister, to make safe communities a priority. I am so glad that today I have had the opportunity to take a short call to support this great start to the National Government\u2019s promise to return safety to our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022 data-id=\u00221246737a22fa41e29fba5f80db100b2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221246737a22fa41e29fba5f80db100b2e\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to respond, firstly, to the Hon Phil Goff, because before the lunch break he and his colleague the Hon Annette King accused me of \u201Celectoral fraud\u201D, which is fairly close to that forbidden \u201Cl\u201D word. It certainly needs a response, and I will give it now. I have learnt that if not the \u201Cl\u201D word then certainly looseness with the truth is the case around here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EI did not speak the day after the election, as the Hon Phil Goff said; I think it was a week after it. The reason for my comment about an impact being felt in 15 or 20 years was that I spent considerable time drafting the draft three strikes bill to avoid the injustices that have occurred in similar legislation in California and elsewhere. I went there last year specifically to look at what had been done in that state and in other states, and to find out, firstly, if it was true that people were going to jail for life or 25 years for shoplifting, burglary, or whatever and, secondly, if it was true, to find out why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af7867bc31c4c088cec3087cee53397\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Who paid for that trip? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f4c126f639245f6b57cccf4eab3865b\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: I did\u2014and the Sensible Sentencing Trust. I thank the member for reminding me. I am told that to accuse me of representing the Sensible Sentencing Trust in this House is improper, but I will respond to it anyway. I am an ACT MP. I am not the MP for sensible sentencing, as I think the Hon Phil Goff described me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f74a074c101540219f6c591629e2aa0a\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I thought legally you were their representative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0ec04371e244fb291dc58fb6f3a163c\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: I am a member of the Sensible Sentencing Trust, yes, and quite proud of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EIn California I found that the law in that state had caused injustice, and I bent over backwards to draft a law that would avoid any possibility of that happening here. In the draft bill that will be referred to the select committee, under our agreement with National, it is simply impossible for somebody to go to jail for life for shoplifting. However, right at the end of the campaign it was pointed out to me that I had gone a bit too far and had made the bill a bit too liberal. It was explained to me, and I had not actually worked it out myself before, that the reason for the comment about the impact being felt in 15 years was that if the three strikes bill was passed tomorrow and the day after that somebody became a one-striker\u2014let us say, for an aggravated robbery\u2014under current law that person would get, let us say, 7 or 8 years in jail. If that person came out 7 years hence and did it again the day after that, then he or she would get another 7 years, or perhaps 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae447dfbc060452cb2a0a7c7e06f05d0\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You never told the people this before the election though, did you? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af4a17aaaddf4c25b4a993fedd4173b8\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: No, I say to Mr Cosgrove; I had not worked it out. I had been too liberal in trying to avoid the unjust consequences that have happened in California. The reason for my comment about an impact being felt in 15 years was that the first three-striker would not, in fact, come before the courts for 15 years, but he or she would have spent the previous 15 years in jail. To that extent that comment is correct, but it was an attempt to make the bill more liberal that caused it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EI commend both the Hon Phil Goff, because he is right, and the previous Labour Government. A lot of what the Labour Government did\u2014prior to 2002, anyway\u2014was excellent stuff, and that is a good reason for me to support our returning to the status quo Bail Act of 2000. The Labour Government lost it a bit after 2002, but prior to 2000 it did a lot of good things. I should also mention that during the lunch break one of the Labour members asked me whether I was planning to be National\u2019s poodle in this House. I have been called all sorts of things and even compared to certain breeds of dogs, but a poodle is not one of them, so the answer to that question is no. I commend the Labour Party for supporting the bill, although, as Mr Power said, it could hardly have done otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EFinally, I will make a comment about the Hon Annette King\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a00e7a6452ea42a39e6db5c1c5efaf2f\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Be nice. Be sweet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2766795540f45eaa586d27c26d4b0b2\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014certainly\u2014who made a comment about the decision in R v Hines and the changes made in 2007. As I understand our constitutional arrangements, it is not for Parliament to follow what a judge has done, not even the most august judges in New Zealand. Under our constitutional arrangements Parliament is sovereign. It is not for Parliament to say that as the Court of Appeal has come out with a decision, Parliament had better change the law\u2014the reverse is the case. Parliament is supposed to lead the courts. Having said that, I can do nothing other than congratulate the Labour Party on supporting the bill. I commend the bill to the House, and may the House continue to pass it with the most possible haste. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecf473bbabfb4f8eb9e0567137cddddb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecf473bbabfb4f8eb9e0567137cddddb\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Here we are once again under urgency passing through all stages yet another bill that the public of New Zealand will have no chance to scrutinise or debate. We have done a complete 180, because we have just finished debating two appalling bills that will cause serious, serious damage to our economy and families. We have now done a complete 180 to a bill, the Bail Amendment Bill, that does absolutely nothing. I ask members to remember that we are in the 100 days of action! I am sure all New Zealanders are feeling turbocharged because we are in 100 days of action right now! Law and order was one of National\u2019s key campaign planks on the election trail, and what is the first law and order bill that comes before this House in the 100 days of action? What is the first legislation from this tough-on-criminals, good-to-victims National Government? What is it? It is a bill that does nothing. It is a flimflam bill that does nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab62b3363d84ede9f506abbe2cd665f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Watch this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cca61b661f24963bfb51ddd7cf97f9a\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am watching this space, I say to Mr Power, and at the moment it is completely empty. That is a shame, because the member could have been a very good Minister if he had been given more senior portfolios. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022741fda89d7644d2a82ab4b0a3fcaa5d2\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Steady on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3c37d3f69e34a0095d8262fe5d9adc2\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am feeling generous. We have been in urgency for a few days, I am sleep-deprived, and I am feeling generous. He should have been the Minister of Police. He would have been a good Minister of Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d8ab6b57bb647a6a1b51c636cdf9c24\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: No, that would have been Chester. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df14dd0216ca44f4a09636b6efba80c2\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Chester Borrows. Minister of Corrections would have been good for Mr Power. Chester Borrows would have been a fantastic Minister of Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e7dc3cd2c724586842e6d0440c7ada0\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Because he knew everything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a6c4645d52e4fa190f096761c480800\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, of course. When we were in Government and Mr Power was in Opposition he knew everything about corrections. We knew nothing and he knew everything. So if he knew everything, I ask why National did not make him the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022247ae051d3174833b6253e7aac0d6930\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Because he was too scared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204bae2174cd2490b90fa444155e88edf\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is right. I will come back to the bill. Some of the contributions from the National members were interesting. Apparently, because they now form the Government, we no longer need select committee processes. Craig Foss called it \u201Cthe select committee of New Zealand\u201D. That is an interesting constitutional change in New Zealand\u2019s history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI welcome Melissa Lee to the House and I congratulate her on delivering her maiden speech. She is certainly an extremely eloquent and intelligent member of this Parliament, and I welcome her here but, again, she suggested that somehow because National won the election, no bills need to be referred to select committees any more. The people of New Zealand should be very worried about this new approach to open, honest, transparent, inclusive Government. Apparently, according to the new National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government, \u201Copen, transparent, and inclusive\u201D has meant shutting the public out of discussion on every single piece of legislation that has come through the House in its first week in office. If that is the way it intends to go on, then I think this will be a very, very short-term Government indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe reason Labour will not be opposing this bill\u2014but we are going to have our say\u2014is that during the election campaign, law and order was an extremely hard-fought issue. National members of Parliament got up on the hustings and accused Labour members of doing nothing. They said we had done absolutely nothing. Let us look at that claim, because, of course, it was the present leader of the Labour Party, the Hon Phil Goff, who made all the changes to our sentencing, bail, and parole Acts that toughened the law. Tony Ryall, who was the Minister of Justice before Mr Goff, said that our laws were too tough. Do members know that under Mr Ryall\u2019s and National\u2019s laws for preventive detention\u2014the sentence given to our worst offenders, those on whom we have to put a sentence saying that if at any point in their lives they breach it they will have to go back to jail; effectively, a life sentence\u2014criminals could be sentenced to preventive detention only on the second offence. They got the first one free, under the National Government. But, as we know, that would not have been the first offence; it would have been just the first time they were caught. Who knows how many offences these people got away with before they were sentenced to preventive detention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EIt was the Hon Phil Goff and the Labour Government that said, no, that if preventive detention was to be an effective sentence it needed to be available on the first offence, if that offence was serious enough to have brought that sentence down on the second offence. It was a Labour Government that did that. It was a Labour Government that got rid of Tony Ryall\u2019s automatic release at two-thirds. Under the last National Government, criminals were automatically released at two-thirds of their sentence, and it was the Labour Government and the present leader of the Labour Party, the Hon Phil Goff, when he was Minister of Justice, who said, no, it should be based on the risk to the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe context in which we find ourselves having this debate is that of a National Party that consistently, when in Government, did nothing on law on order and did nothing to increase sentences, against a previous Labour Government that stood up and made the tough choices because we do not like the fact that there are a lot more people in our jails. We think it is a failure of our society that we have so many people in our prisons. Every person in our prisons is wasted opportunity. But we stood up, listened to the public, and said we know that people want to feel secure. They want to feel that the sentences people are being given for the heinous crimes they commit reflect those crimes. We listened and we did it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EIf we compare that to this first law and order bill of the new National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government, what do we find it does? It does nothing\u2014absolutely nothing. Not one person will be safer because of this Bail Amendment Bill. Nothing will change, and it just goes to show that here we are all over again facing the same tired rhetoric from the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWhy did Melissa Lee not draw the comparison, or connection, between the two bills we have already passed? One of those raises taxes for our most vulnerable families, and reduces their income after retirement. The second was the 90-day probation bill, which means that people can be fired for no reason\u2014perhaps their boss does not like them\u2014and they could be sent back on to a benefit. And she does not draw the connection with crime. She does not think that the policies in the legislation they are passing\u2014policies that will whack our working families in the guts, that will lower incomes for those who are most vulnerable, and that will drive people into poverty\u2014might be part of the reason that people commit crime in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a51ce4d57646463aa07f2e2cb85ec9e6\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Wrong!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282760d7d4ae84fa6bd04c20b9e2b9e21\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWrong!\u201D, says Mr Garrett. Apparently poverty has nothing to do with crime! When are we going to have a law and order debate in this country that deals with the causes of crime? Do members know why we do not? It is because there is no immediate political pay off for doing that. We are not going to see the benefits of the last 9 years of a Labour Government that poured money into early childhood education, into at-risk families, and into dealing with children in the first 3 years of their lives, which we know is when they are set on a path that it is very difficult to bring them off without huge resources. We are not going to see the benefit of that for perhaps another 5, 10, or 15 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003ELet us look at where we are now. We are dealing with 17 and 18-year-olds who are committing heinous crimes. These are the 17 and 18-year-olds who were born after the 1991 \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D. These are the children whose families were plunged into poverty overnight by a National Government whose slogan was \u201Cgoing for growth\u201D. What was the slogan from Mr Key in the Speech from the Throne? It was \u201Cgoing for growth\u201D. If we never learn anything in this country, if we are going to drive our poorest families into poverty, if we are going to remove people\u2019s rights at work, as the National Government has just done today, if we are going to raise taxes on the lowest families and cut KiwiSaver, if we are going to cut growth because we have just got rid of research and development tax credits\u2014which the rest of the world has\u2014just like the National Party has done today, if we continue to do these things, we will be here in 20, 30, 40, or 50 years\u2019 time having exactly the same conversation and passing legislation that will do nothing to prevent crime. It might make victims of crime feel better afterwards\u2014this bill will not\u2014but we pass legislation to make the victims of crime feel that there is appropriate punishment for what has happened, but none of this will prevent there being victims of crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EUltimately, that should be what all legislation in this House is about. All legislation in this House should be about preventing more victims of crime from being created. How do we bring these young people off the path to crime, and when will we give up the short-term, reactionary, knee-jerk responses\u2014those responses that do nothing to actually lower the crime rate, those responses that do nothing to bring those young people, who are on that path, off that path and into a productive life, those responses that do absolutely nothing to reduce our crime rates and keep our communities safe? I say to this National Government that it is on notice, because the last time it was in office it plunged families into poverty, and everything we have seen in this urgency motion shows that its intentions have not changed, that its colours have not changed, and that it will do exactly the same thing again. And it will take a new Labour Government to mop up its mess again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022 data-id=\u00229ee3bdbf90e6488d948b37e0bed54fae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ee3bdbf90e6488d948b37e0bed54fae\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table the 1991 so-called \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D, which came 5 months after that lot got the boot in direct response to the state it left the country in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234a80531d40c464392c3533ae5446c80\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ceb7792b8f514c37986474ca90e9689b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ceb7792b8f514c37986474ca90e9689b\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E The heart of what we are debating today is public safety. As someone who has returned from London, I say that the previous Labour Government has made New Zealand less safe. I say as a young woman who walks the streets of central Auckland that New Zealand is not the place it once was. That is why I stand to speak today and am proud to support this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EI want to deal with a couple of things. The first is that at the heart of this Bail Amendment Bill we are dealing with risk\u2014the level of risk. Phil Goff stood up before and said that this bill is just window dressing. I make the point that clearly he did not think that in 2007, because why else would he have passed legislation changing the law? So, yes, he is reversing his position, and I think he needs to stand up and explain why he is doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EThe second point is that a number of reputable organisations believe that as a result of this law change it has been easier for people to get bail, and we need to acknowledge those organisations\u2019 concerns. The New Zealand Law Society, the Police Association, the Police Prosecution Service, and a number of High Court judges have all said that it has been easier to get bail as a result of that law change. I stand here and say that we should be listening to those organisations. They know what they are talking about. The Labour Opposition might not, but they do. We should be listening to those organisations that believe that the law passed by Labour in 2007 has meant it is easier for people to get bail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EThe third point I want to make today is to ask those members opposite that if they do not believe this legislation is making any change whatsoever, then why are they supporting it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0a0e2661b084ba48b5c7c792ef1b0dd\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Because it makes no difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3066d9f89c34d29b4ed1b3e95947f72\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly\u2014why are they standing here supporting the legislation if they think it makes no difference? I will tell them why. They know very well that they changed the law and made it easier for people to get bail. New Zealand is a less safe place as a result of 9 years of a Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EI am proud to stand here and to be part of a Government that believes in making New Zealand a safer place for all New Zealanders\u2014like my constituents in Auckland Central\u2014so they can walk the streets. New Zealand will be a safer place, and I am proud to be part of a National Government that is serious about protecting the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u00225db15bfc14194f97abb0a42dcdafcd35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225db15bfc14194f97abb0a42dcdafcd35\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The second reading of the Bail Amendment Bill has been a very robust debate, which is how we like it on this side of the House. I am sure many members on the other side of the House have enjoyed the debate as well, and that is healthy for democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI congratulate Melissa Lee on her election to this Parliament, but I say to her that one of the mistakes one can make in this place is to assume that other people have not had the same experience that we have had. People from all walks of life are in this Parliament, whether they are in the National Party, the Labour Party, or any other party, and we have all had different experiences. She should never assume that because we are in the Labour Party and therefore the member\u2019s natural opponents, people on this side of the House have never experienced sorrow, despair, or tragedy, because that is not true. We have all had such experiences; let us respect that. When someone says \u201CYou won\u2019t know what it is like to be a victim\u201D, that is not true. Everybody in this House at some time has probably been a victim of something, so when someone says that, it brings out the worst in people. That would be my advice to the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThe member also said the change to bail that we are making today will mean we will never again see a tragedy like the murder of a dairy owner in South Auckland. Well, after this bill is passed today, the Royal assent is given on Monday, and it becomes the law, when somebody is then murdered tragically in a dairy or on the street, what will the member say to her constituency? National will pass the legislation and in 6 months\u2019 time a tragedy may happen again, but National will have passed the legislation. In a year\u2019s time it may happen again, after the legislation is passed. You see, passing this legislation will not stop mindless, senseless violence by people one cannot control. One has to have good law; I agree with that. But to think that the law itself will stop that kind of mindless violence is not correct. I think the member will grow to regret that comment, because what is said in this House, unfortunately, becomes the record of this House and then is used over and over again\u2014and we have all been victims of that. That comment will come back to haunt Ms Lee and the National Party, because the Minister knows that when this legislation is passed it does not mean the end of mindless violence in New Zealand. I wish it did, but it does not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThen we had Chester Borrows speak. He said National was supporting this bill because it wanted to be seen to be doing something. Well, actually, I tell him we are supporting it because it does not make any difference to what is happening now, in terms of people going into prison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI tell Nikki Kaye that when I was the Minister of Justice I got the briefing papers, as well. Our change in 2007 to the Bail Act was never about putting fewer or more people into prison. It was about clarifying the law. So it was not about suddenly seeing a whole lot of people going into prison or not going there. The 2007 amendment was designed to clarify the law because it was not clear, and judges had made it clear to us that the law was not clear. In fact, the estimate was that by 2009 there would be 10 extra people on remand in jail because of the change, and they would not necessarily be 10 murderers, or suspected murderers. They could be people charged with any crime for which they could be remanded on bail. The advice I got was that by 2011 there could be as many as 40 people affected by that amendment. So the issue was never about putting more people in jail or fewer people in jail; it was always about clarifying the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EPansy Wong said it took us 9 long years and we did nothing. Well, for the information of this House, I say the bail laws of New Zealand were toughened in 2000 by the Hon Phil Goff as Minister of Justice. That is quite clear, and I listened to Rahui Katene\u2019s speech where she pointed out what had happened since the bail laws were toughened up. She does not agree with what happened, actually, and that is fair enough. She thinks the bail laws became too tough. That toughening-up happened in 2000. The National Party members voted against the toughening-up of the Bail Act then. They did not agree with that. They said we were being too tough on people who would require bail. That was done in 2000. Then we looked at the need to clarify the law when the 2007 amendment was brought in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI now turn to David Garrett. He honestly said he had researched his \u201Cthree strikes and you\u2019re out policy\u201D. He said he did the homework, went to the United States at his own expense and that of the Sensible Sentencing Trust, came back and did the work, and then, just before the election, found he had got it wrong\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0faed083a7940f896f4c97e8a7fe7b0\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Just after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af0c419096e47209bac68484fecc111\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Just after the election. I do not know when the work finished, then. So in the middle of the campaign the policy had been announced, the billboards were already up, and the member had made it clear that that was the policy\u2014and just after the election, he found out that he had got it wrong. It is good that the member did the work; that is very good, indeed. I am pleased about that. But that is not the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThe issue is that before the election the people of New Zealand were not told about the impact, or the lack of impact, of the very policy they went and ticked. They were not told that. So when my colleague says that this bill is an electoral fraud, one has to admit that when the public is not told about the impact of a policy until after an election\u2014just like the National Party has not told the public of the impact of the changes to KiwiSaver or the impact of its taxation changes\u2014then one has to say that if it is not electoral fraud, people were hoodwinked into believing that something was going to happen, when something totally different from that is to happen. In fact, we are on a go-slow on the policy that ACT campaigned on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225cb0f67cdaa4542a1b294a515ea7d3a\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: It is going to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d8fe4ae7ca84653ad8a8f6d7064214c\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I presume by that comment that when the member gets to the select committee, he will change the measure and make it become retrospective, because that is the only way he will be able to bring it in to do what he wants, right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThen we heard about how Parliament does not follow judges. The member is right; Parliament does not follow judges. Judges interpret the laws that Parliament makes. The reason why the amendment was brought in, in 2007, related to the way judges were interpreting, or thought they should interpret, the principal Act. It was difficult to interpret, and Phil Goff read out the comments that the judges made. So the aim of the change was to make the law clearer. That is our job: to make the law clearer, so the judges can make the judgments that we require of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EAs Minister of Justice I faced, on a daily basis, a barrage of questions on justice from the very effective then Opposition member Simon Power. I really look forward to being told what he is going to do with the justice portfolio. Of course, there was the Ombudsman\u2019s report into the criminal justice system. Of course, that report is now with the Government, and he is in the Government. I am going to be very, very interested in that matter. In fact, I have a whole series of questions to ask the Minister about what he is going to do with the Ombudsman\u2019s report. I know that the Minister thought a lot of that report. He believed in that report and thought it was an extremely good report. Is that correct, Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9bea900d2e1453aa4ba7a081863ff23\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4efe786f7d1485199d9357eb71ca313\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a wee while since the member read it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202a643a7fa17417bbe22c847457247e1\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad77eb6e55d04fb0b52c7f0e77e039a6\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I think maybe it is, because the Ombudsman said about the bail change of 2007: \u201CI express doubt whether this amendment will have a major impact in reducing the number of custodial remands.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThat is what the Ombudsman said of our change, and the reason why we will not vote against this bill is that it returns the situation to what it was before that change. It was only ever going to have a marginal impact in terms of the number of people in custody. It was about clarifying the law, so it makes very little difference at all. If the House wants to make the law less clear, that is fine. It does not make much difference in terms of the beds in prisons. That, however, is the argument that the National Party went to New Zealand on: that the change we made had made it easier for criminals to be in society, and that we did it in order to save prison beds. That is not true, on the basis of the evidence given to the member as the Minister. It is not true according to the comments made by those who understand the 2007 amendment, including officials, judges, and people in the Law Society. That is not the reason why the amendment to the principal Act was done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThis bill is a piece of puffery and flimflam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7170d126b3a4e0483a8e3ccf8d8e90b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7170d126b3a4e0483a8e3ccf8d8e90b\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I respect the sentiments of the Labour members. They had 9 years to amend the law, yet crime has increased. In those 9 years they did not do anything, but National, which has been in office for only 1 month, has introduced this bill. I respect the sentiments of the Labour members and understand that that is why they are upset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EThere are really big concerns in the Indian community, because over the last few years that community has faced three murders. Hard-working people, hard-working Kiwis, have been lost while working in their shops to earn bread for their families. In the case of Navtej Singh, his family does not have a breadwinner right now and is really struggling to make a living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003EI support this bill because it is a great step. Within 1 month of becoming the Government, National has introduced this amendment bill, and the main objective of it is to protect the public and to give rights to the police and the justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u002216d203acbb164dd3889c0be26ff7b7ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216d203acbb164dd3889c0be26ff7b7ec\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me some pleasure to rise to speak to the Bail Amendment Bill. The bill is interesting in that it deals with an important issue but, in the end, really does nothing about it. I think that is the essence of what the Opposition is arguing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EObviously the issue is important. I do not think there is anybody in this House\u2014even the most liberal on penal policy\u2014who regards seriously violent crime and, indeed, other serious forms of crime, with anything other than abhorrence. Anybody here who read the material about the Nia Glassie case, for example, and many other cases over the years simply fails to grasp or understand how people can be so evil, so cruel, and so thoughtless about the actions they engage in. It is beyond the comprehension, I think, of anybody in this House to think about what kind of mind can bring itself to do that kind of action. Equally, much less serious forms of crime can impact seriously upon people. Minor forms of burglary feel like a form of invasion for the individual. It is a disruption of one\u2019s life. It is an invasion of one\u2019s privacy. It can result in the removal of things that are perhaps of little material value but of great non-tangible value to families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EPeople want to see those responsible for crime punished, not least because the traditional reason why the State punishes crime is, in part, to prevent other people from punishing crime. It is to ensure that the Crown\u2014the King or the Queen\u2014keeps unto itself a monopoly, if one likes, on retributive power; otherwise, we descend into a state of mutual retribution and endless cycles of retribution. We would also like to see more effective rehabilitation within the penal system, yet I suppose we can say that successive Governments have failed to achieve as much in that respect as we would all like to see. I wish the new Government well with its plans for drug and alcohol rehabilitation within prisons. I hope it can get that kind of money for penal policy out of my successor as Uncle Scrooge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThat is all well and good, but there also is a lot of rhetoric on these issues that bears not a great deal of relationship to reality. There is an idea that simply by having ever stronger penal policy, ever longer sentences, ever more difficulty in getting bail, and ever more difficulty in getting parole, somehow or other these crimes will go away. I think Ms Lee fell into that mistake quite badly by arguing that this particular change\u2014which, as one can see if one stands not very far back at all, is a very marginal change to the provision of bail\u2014will somehow prevent people from committing serious crimes. Well, it is most unlikely to do so. It is certainly most unlikely to prevent any first offender from committing a serious crime, because the first offender is most unlikely to have the kind of record or the kind of experiences that will alert a judge to the possibility that he or she is likely to commit a serious crime if let out on bail. It will not necessarily prevent people from committing crimes after they are released from prison\u2014prevent them from being second-time offenders\u2014unless we say that for every kind of serious offence people are locked up for life and we mean life. If we mean that, we had better start building an awful lot of prisons very quickly. That would create an awful lot of difficulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EAll of those things really are true. As Annette King wisely said\u2014and I think the Government would be wise to listen\u2014making bold promises within a matter of weeks of becoming the Government that these kinds of actions will mean we do not have any more horrendous, attention-grabbing, headline-grabbing crimes that revolt the nation merely exposes one to enormous risk in the future. It means that even if we do not choose to visit those words back upon the Government, the media will certainly choose to visit them back upon the Government at some point in the future, particularly during the dead news season over the Christmas holidays and the new year, when crime dominates the headlines on television and in other media because not a lot else is going on. That is why crime dominates in that period. It is not necessarily because there is more crime; it is because there is no other news for the media to cover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ESo what does the bill actually do? It basically is the equivalent of pressing the circle button on one\u2019s Sky TV remote. It moves one back to channel 23 from channel 24 if one was on channel 23 previously. It simply removes a change and goes back to the previous law in terms of bail. What does that mean in practice? On the one hand, it might mean slightly more confusion in that the changes introduced in 2007 were merely an attempt to clarify the intention of the law, given the fact that certain members of the judiciary had arrived at certain views that did not seem entirely consistent with the law. But, on the other hand, there is a great deal of case law and many statements from judges already that can be taken as a guide, and, by and large, the statements from judges on cases since 2007 have indicated that, in their view, the 2007 changes made very little difference to the interpretation of the law. In other words, if we are to go by what the judges have said so far based on the 2007 changes, we cannot expect the judges to make much of a change in interpretation based on this particular law. So again I say to Ms Lee that she should be very careful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ELet us also remind ourselves of one quite fundamental point. Our system assumes that people are innocent until proven guilty. The presumption is that bail is given unless there is good reason, in terms of the interests of protecting the public, not to give bail. Otherwise, one ends up with an increased risk of people who will be found innocent having spent considerable periods of time in jail. That, of course, is not a desirable outcome. People are innocent until proven guilty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215e418909ea34cdb8ab81f1082c9ba49\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: 30 percent of them are not found guilty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cd7fc63544e4b8e9cc45d9834cb44db\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, 30 percent of them are not found guilty. That does not mean they are innocent, of course; it means the Crown has not proven its case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut it is also very clear that sometimes people get it wrong. Sometimes people who should not be found guilty are found guilty. In the United States in particular, a rather alarming number of people convicted of the most serious crime of all\u2014murder\u2014are subsequently cleared on the basis of forensic evidence. If they had been executed, which is the law in most states in the United States, the situation would have been particularly serious, because it is rather hard to reverse an execution. It is a case of saying: \u201CSorry about that. We locked you up for 10 years, which was bad enough, but we\u2019ve also actually topped you in the meantime, so we can\u2019t do very much about it at all.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe have to recognise that any of us in this room, any of us in Parliament, could find ourselves on a charge\u2014not necessarily a serious criminal charge, but even that is possible. Mistakes are made. Mistakes are made in the system. People are charged. If we have a system that does not provide bail at all, then any one of us in this House is also exposed\u2014seriously\u2014to the risk of imprisonment, perhaps unfortunately, there is often quite a long time between charges being laid and the case actually coming to trial. People in New Zealand have made lots of money out of writing books about the injustices of the New Zealand criminal law system and people being wrongfully convicted. In some of those cases I am not always convinced by those books, I might say, but I will not go any further into those particular matters in case I commit an indiscretion\u2014being a previous Attorney-General.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThere is a balance that always needs to be struck. The balance cannot be that we lock people up as soon as they are charged, because that is to make assumptions that should not be made. Yes, we have to somehow find better means of preventing crime. We are still putting far too little in the way of resources into trying to cut off crime at its roots. We need some very hard conversations in this country about what is needed in terms of the use of the power of the State in terms of early intervention, and the power of State-supported community groups and other groups in terms of early intervention. I am not sure we now have that balance entirely right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EBut let us not rush off into rhetoric that, somehow or other, very minor changes of this sort will suddenly lead to a crime-free New Zealand. There was no past golden age when we had a sense of peace and community, if I can quote Miss Katene, nor was there a past golden age when there was no serious crime. Those ages have never been; they never were. We have had serious crime with us always, and societies that have an extreme, punitive approach do not have no serious crime at all. It is true that if we execute all criminals the rate of recidivism is quite low, but, beyond that, nobody has found the perfect answer in these areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022 data-id=\u00224a1cfb95261e48c58aa19fe6402f09d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a1cfb95261e48c58aa19fe6402f09d8\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E This is a new Government now getting on with the job in the first 100 days, and rolling through legislation that is vitally important in order to keep our communities safer. The main objective of the Bail Amendment Bill is about making communities safer. It is about protecting the public from defendants who\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b82719f372f48ed9274d01b09cf5c93\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: For goodness\u2019 sake, stop reading the research notes. They are just rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276a12b366e234d1c8ee178f364c4be41\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: No, no; I am not reading the research notes, I say to Mrs King. The objectives of this bill are actually very important. They are about making communities safer, and about protecting people from defendants who are out on bail and who might be absconding or interfering with witnesses or evidence. That is why this Government is getting on with the job of making communities safer. It is vitally important. That is why members on this side of the House are supporting the bill, and it looks like we have a great deal of support from across the whole of Parliament. That is why we are endorsing the second reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002267870512e6904b4fa9c7d014139f5cc4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Bail Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 106\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 4; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1d95db21fdb4a089ab31169f1dbc6a1\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6788cbd1cfc4115b7fbe90f17ccef49\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u0022c511955a78c949cc8aa54949939330b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c511955a78c949cc8aa54949939330b5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Because this bill is such a small bill\u2014both small in nature and small in substance\u2014in addressing this clause I want to pick up on something that Mr Garrett said in relation to his party\u2019s stance on law and order that I found astounding, I must say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI think it was Mr Goff who challenged Mr Garrett in respect of his \u201Cthree strikes and you\u2019re out\u201D policy. He said it was the biggest electoral fraud, possibly, in New Zealand\u2019s history. People were told that after three strikes somebody would be inside for 25 years with no parole. The ACT candidate in my electorate, Mr Aaron Keown, rattled around the electorate with great aplomb and made that point. Mr Goff pointed out that after the election Mr Garrett, who I am told\u2014I ask the member to correct me if I am wrong\u2014was at that time the legal adviser to the Sensible Sentencing Trust\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9140f00f6f3464c96cf5ee0939977a1\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: A legal adviser.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231feab20c1d54b09a5b6356b7c37ac3e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a legal adviser and a learned lawyer, by his own admission, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c738f802f44be986e730c0494d9a3d\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aaeef5364654dd694ed53c22f13ea53\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, by Mr Hide\u2019s admission. After the election, he unveiled what the policy really meant, which was that it would not apply or have any impact at all for 15 long years. That bowled everybody over, including, I suspect, even the Sensible Sentencing Trust. Maybe the Sensible Sentencing Trust might want to ask for Mr Garrett\u2019s salary back as a refund, because then\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229c28bcfc6dc485fbaf37249dcf0110c\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: I never got paid, Mr Cosgrove.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2340f4d809240798fa04839f6b9d053\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he never got paid\u2014OK. He got paid to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255d50707b8a246488391027d4cfeb581\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: They got value for money then!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022358d629aae38462c92367842e1d8fe41\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they got value for money. It was pro bono all right\u2014serious \u201Cbono\u201D. He then went on to tell us why he had told the people of New Zealand one thing before the election and another thing after the election, and I wrote it down. It was, he said, because he had not worked it out. He had not worked out that the legislation is not retrospective. I will go through the same example he did. If somebody commits a crime and gets, say, 7 years, then comes out, commits another crime, and gets 5 years, and so on, eventually he gets 15 years. He had not worked that out, and he was a lawyer advising the Sensible Sentencing Trust! I am sorry but I do not accept the explanation. I suspect he is a bright guy. He has a law degree\u2014I do not, so I bow to his experience, knowledge, and expertise\u2014he was working pro bono, or otherwise, for the Sensible Sentencing Trust, and I see that its magazine that came out a couple of days ago was trumpeting this position. I do not accept his explanation. We worked it out in about 30 seconds. I think even National Party members worked it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Garrett that he will regret that attempt to hoodwink New Zealanders. New Zealanders clearly read the billboards. The position was clearly enunciated by ACT. If it took him 3 months of an election campaign to get out the calculator and go 5\u002B5\u002B5=15, that says a lot about him. Maybe he ought to be a little quieter in this Chamber. His integrity is intact, of course\u2014no one would ever question that. But certainly one would now question that man\u2019s judgment, and certainly one would question his leader\u2019s judgment in co-opting a person who made such outrageous claims to the New Zealand people simply to get votes, who is here in this Chamber on the basis of what he had told people, and who then broke that promise knowingly\u2014in my view\u2014after the election. If he could not hit 5 on the calculator, then \u002B, then 5, then \u002B, then 5, and work it out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f04fb787843455ea0d728f6fa1fd013\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: What promise are you talking about? What promise was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236a29731ea414fd0a06a18aef7d98204\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The promise on ACT\u2019s billboards that this would happen now, that there would be an immediate impact. At every candidates meeting that I went to people stood up and asked the ACT candidate whether that would happen, and he said \u201CYep, we are going to make it happen asap.\u201D I invite that member to poll New Zealanders and ask them, because that is the impression the ACT Party created.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240d0811b23c64b3ca68a5d946b829cd5\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: The candidates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3e7ed2166a24a3d89ed3041e414469f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The candidates created it. Mr Hide created it, Mr Garrett created it, Sir Roger Douglas probably created it\u2014every member of that party created the impression that almost the day after the election ACT would get some legislation up and, bang, it would come in and have an immediate impact. Then he says on radio and in print that actually it will not have an impact for 15 long years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d82147324f08432a8fc0d954a461c62d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d82147324f08432a8fc0d954a461c62d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E During the first and second readings of this bill, one of the common things that was said about its effect was that the community would be safer once it was passed. The bill will be passed today. No doubt the Minister in the chair, the Hon Simon Power, will have it ready for the Governor-General on Monday, and it could be signed into law as soon as that. So what I really want from the Minister is an answer that defines for this House how the community will be safer after Monday. What difference will the passage of this bill make, once the bill has the Royal assent? I ask the Minister to define for this Parliament, so we can have it on the record of the House, how the community will be safer. I think that is very important. Will we see, after the passage of this bill, fewer murders? Will there be fewer assaults? Will there be less violence? We need that definition because members in National have been programmed, from new members through to experienced members like Nathan Guy. Those members who have just concluded their speeches have said that with the passage of this bill, the community will be safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThat is a big claim; it is a major claim, and New Zealanders will want to know how we can measure it. How can we measure the claim that when this bill is passed, the community will be safer? That is a very important question, I say to the Minister, and I would like on the record how he will define that so we can measure his performance. That is not unreasonable, because the National Party has made much of what it will do in the law and order area\u2014how much tougher it will be, and how it will ensure that the streets of New Zealand are safer for New Zealanders. We need the measurement of such a change, because it is only by having that definition and that measurement that people will know whether what was said\u2014and the rhetoric\u2014on the campaign trail was right. That is the first thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI wonder whether the Minister will also tell us how this bill will stop murders in the family environment. You see, we heard from people today that this will stop murders on the street. Melissa Lee believes that this will stop murders in dairies and on the street, and it will stop street violence. We have already asked for that definition, but I would like to know how it will stop murders that happen in the family environment. Almost half of our murders now happen in a family situation, and most of those people who commit murder have not murdered before. In fact, about 16 women are murdered every year by a partner, and about six men and 10 children are murdered in a family environment. So about 32 of the murders we have each year are committed in that family environment. The rest we would consider to be committed in a street or public violence situation. We have about 60 murders a year, and have had for the last decade. There has been very little change in that time in the number of murders in New Zealand. So how will this change make a difference to that situation? One of the worst situations we have in New Zealand is family violence. How will the change in the bail law affect that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThe next thing I want to know from the Minister is whether he believes that the streets of Auckland are less safe than the streets of London, as Nikki Kaye said in her speech. She said that in London, where she lived, it was safer than it is in Auckland. I presume we could compare K Road with Soho, for example. Well, I do not know whether Nikki Kaye ever met the police in London, but I certainly did. I went to Soho and I watched their video recordings of what happens on the streets of Soho, and I can tell members that every few seconds there is a robbery, an assault, or a stabbing. That is not the profile of New Zealand, so when extravagant statements like that are made, they need to be backed up by evidence. So I want to know from the Minister whether he agrees with his member, and whether he believes that the new bail law amendment will make K Rd safer than Soho.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5632d9aed8243fc8d2049b822d102d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5632d9aed8243fc8d2049b822d102d8\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I take this opportunity to thank Opposition members for recognising me. My name is indeed Melissa Lee. I thank them for the lessons they have decided to bestow upon me in respect of my inexperience in this Chamber. However, I remind those members that I have the right to comment on the issue, and I was neither delusional nor arrogant in pointing out that we have a problem with criminals in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5c05b9249f2495cb141daea833a6351\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You didn\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c88f03cfe2464432bf3ff78cd95217d6\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: If members listened very carefully, they would know that I did not say the bill would stop murderers. I said I would support the bill if it stopped another senseless killing\u2014like the killing of Navtej Singh, Joanne Wang, and Madam Yang. Madam Yang was an 80-year-old woman who was murdered in her home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003EI also talked about my experience of home invasion. Yes, Chester Borrows was right: I became rather emotional. This is the first day I have spoken in the Chamber since my maiden speech, and I became rather flustered by members opposite\u2014great! I thank members for making me nervous\u2014I have subsequently been shoulder-tapped. I was the victim of a home invasion. When I spoke earlier, I was not arrogant enough to think that I represented everybody in New Zealand; I was speaking from my experience. Two guys wearing black balaclavas came to my house and followed me into my garage. Those people were on bail when they committed that crime. If this bill can stop them from committing another crime, then I will support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022771ccec963a84b55804af9a8d6cdd708\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022771ccec963a84b55804af9a8d6cdd708\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E There are a number of questions I would like to put to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Simon Power. The Minister ought to be quite well informed in this area; he shadowed it for 9 years, or something close to that. So I presume that, unlike his predecessor in the chair, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, he will actually take calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EMy first question to the Minister is whether anything in this bill would have had any prospect at all of influencing the outcome of any of the cases raised by Melissa Lee. Were any of the cases raised by Melissa Lee ones that involved people on serious charges who were out in the community on bail, where the marginal impact of this bill would have made a difference? I think that question is important, because we are talking about this bill. I do appreciate the need for any New Zealander to feel safe in his or her home. A home invasion is a terrifying thing, and I have sympathy for anyone who has gone through that experience. I am not knocking the previous speaker\u2019s experience; I am just pointing out that her saying none of us knows what it feels like to be a victim is presumptuous, arrogant, and patronising. All of those things are fair criticisms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ESecondly, can the Minister explain why this bill is a priority? Yes, New Zealanders are concerned about law and order, but why does this bill need to be rushed through without a select committee hearing? Is the bill a priority because it will have an immediate and important influence on making the community safer? If that is the Minister\u2019s argument, can he explain to the Committee and the country how this will happen, when the advice given to my colleague Annette King just a matter of months ago\u2014by the same Ministry of Justice officials who are sitting at the front of the Chamber now\u2014was that this might involve about 10 remand beds over the next year. Will this be really significant, if, as the law states at the moment, the people whose cases might be influenced are those that involve less clear and significant risk than nebulous and insignificant risk? So is the nature of the people whom we are talking about\u2014those who may be remanded into custody\u2014such that a reasonably clear risk would be presented to New Zealanders, and, if he believes that, can he provide the House with some evidence to sustain that argument?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EDoes the Minister accept that the impact of this bill will be to take the law on bail back to where it was before the 2007 amendment? If so, the case law that applied under the previous law will apply now. Does he therefore accept that that case law is set out clearly in R v Hines in the Court of Appeal? That judgment says that the risk that the defendant may interfere with the witness should be \u201Cmore than nebulous and insignificant and should be a real and significant risk.\u201D If that is the case, how will the law now change in its interpretation from what it was before, given that this bill will take us back to exactly the same law that we had, and presumably the same case law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWere the Ministry of Justice people actually being really generous when they suggested that this change might involve the need for another 10 remand beds? And are 10 remand beds very significant when the number of people remanded into custody at any one time is over 1,800? We are talking about well over 15,000 people each year being circulated through the system and remanded into custody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EGiven that the bill states that the Law Society said the changes have made it easier for defendants to get bail, can the Minister explain why this remark is not qualified by what the Law Society actually said. I think it was on the Close Up programme that Jonathan Krebs, who is the convener of the Law Society\u2019s criminal matters committee, said: \u201Cthe threshold of the bail test has been reduced a little bit.\u201D\u2014a little bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b9beb25f71d4e97bd5a0b526ab28238\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: So it has been reduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223983478514084575835b1ab8cff4ee55\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: A little bit. I am happy to take my seat if Mr Power indicates a willingness to answer all or even any of those questions. That would make a change from the other Minister who was in the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EOn the bill the Minister says that High Court judges have said these changes made it easier, but he actually quoted very selectively. Justice Priestley\u2014hardly a Labour-oriented judge, given his background as an office holder in the National Party, as the Minister in the chair will be aware\u2014said it is clear that the threshold criteria, when considering section 8(1), have not changed significantly. However, of course, Justice Heath said it \u201Cdoes not seem to me to put the test any higher than was under the previous legislation,\u201D. So there we go. A couple of High Court judges say there is not much change, and those who say there is change say that there has been a little bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWill the Minister acknowledge to the Committee that he is into window dressing rather than reality, as he has been accused of by a professor at Otago University? Given that this legislation is patently window dressing, will he acknowledge that it really does not change things? The Minister knows that in his heart; he will probably not admit it in the Chamber today, but he knows that is the case. Why did he choose this legislation\u2014as he said in the New Zealand Herald\u2014as his top priority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister to explain something to the Committee\u2014and to Melissa Lee, because she will want to know this. The Minister has the immediate power through Order in Council to bring in legislation that has already been passed\u2014after having gone through a select committee process\u2014and that makes the minimum period before parole can be considered for any serious sentence at least two-thirds of that sentence. That means that people serving short sentences will have to serve the whole time, so if he was going to be tough and really make a difference\u2014actually, this is a question that Mr Garrett should be asking him, and maybe he will\u2014why has he not chosen that as his priority? I say to Mr Power that it is sitting on the statute book now, waiting to come into effect. Mr Power has said that this is really important, and that the law is too lenient. I ask him why he has not done that as his priority. Secondly, if that is not his priority, I ask when he is considering doing that, and what the reason is for his delay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI think members would agree those are all legitimate questions. I am happy to resume my seat and listen to the Minister\u2019s answers on those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI emphasise that as this bill is not going to a select committee, the only accountability the Committee actually has is what the Minister answers in the Chamber to questions legitimately put. I think members would agree that none of the questions I have asked are frivolous, that all are pertinent to the impact of this legislation on the country and on community safety, and that the Minister should be able to justify how this will make a difference to community safety. He has said that publicly, but we know from his briefings that it will have a very marginal impact, and a marginal impact on cases that were themselves very marginal. So if there was any real risk, that would already be covered by the legislation. So we are talking about perhaps nebulous and insignificant risk, as set out by Justice Heath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWhy is this legislation the priority? Is the Minister misleading the country in suggesting that it will make the community safer? Were any of the cases raised by Melissa Lee relevant to the legislation passing through the House right now? I would really appreciate the Minister having the conviction to stand up and answer those questions. I give him now the opportunity to take the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022 data-id=\u00221e5a5aa3f8e948fda19edc0de8a0212e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e5a5aa3f8e948fda19edc0de8a0212e\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The Opposition is actually largely right: this measure will not reduce homicide by 50 percent, or even 10 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bc48bc5c20f41d0a8b5a860a5478bcc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Or even 1 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223032ac740b3c45cea7799ec608bccfbe\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: Or even, perhaps, 1 percent\u2014that is right. I think I could even agree that the test was made a little bit more liberal; I can even accept that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EI would like to give the Committee a few figures. Twenty-five percent of violent offenders reoffend while on bail. They do not necessarily kill anyone; probably almost none of them do. The reoffending rate for those whose previous major offence was rape, unlawful sexual connection, or attempted sexual violation is even higher: 27.4 percent, 30.4 percent, and 31.2 percent respectively. I am not a great numbers man\u2014I do not have to be\u2014but that means that out of every 100 people released on bail, 20 to 30 reoffend, depending on their offence or their past. If we can prevent even one of those who is released\u2014who would otherwise not have been released, as a result of the stricter risk test rather than the \u201Creal and significant risk\u201D test\u2014from killing someone, or even raping someone, is that not worth doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EMembers should look at the case of Dean Wickliffe. He was a long-time loser. He was locked up in 1972 for murder. Later, on retrial, the crime was found to be manslaughter, but, significantly, the court never let him out\u2014the life sentence remained. Life sentences are available for manslaughter but are almost never used. Wickliffe finally got out in 1987, but within a very short time he was back again: a year later he was convicted of murder. He spent years and years arguing that he had been wrongfully convicted of murder in 1972. Finally the parole board said that he was right. One year later he killed someone. Sorry, I should say that he was retried and acquitted. But, as the Hon Phil Goff said quite correctly, no one gets found innocent in this country. Acquittal is quite a different thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003ENow Wickliffe is out again. He is out again \u201Cto care for his terminally-ill partner\u201D. He is certainly not a nurse. He is not a hospice worker. Even his people in Maket\u016B in the Bay of Plenty are \u201Cambivalent about Wickliffe\u2019s pending return. One said the community had done a lot to help Wickliffe settle into life outside prison, but he had turned his back on them. \u2018He likes to be a big hot-shot.\u2019 \u201D I believe he is known as the \u201CBig man\u201D, although he is about 5 feet tall. I hope I am wrong\u2014I absolutely hope I am wrong. But Wickliffe is out there now, and that frightens me. He is out there now on bail. If this proposed tightening of the test meant that some judge somewhere said \u201CWell, no\u2014there\u2019s a slight risk there; you\u2019ve got to stay there.\u201D, I would feel a lot happier. So even if this measure reduced violent offending by a little bit\u2014even by 1 or 2 percent\u2014it would be a change worth making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EBut the Opposition is correct: in itself this measure will not reduce violent offending by a huge amount. It is very difficult to measure how much this will reduce it, at all. A negative cannot be measured\u2014it is very hard. But I would be much happier if Mr Dean Wickliffe was behind bars rather than in the community, and if this change achieves that for others like him, then it will have done something positive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1878874c6474522a29dcea85710b57f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1878874c6474522a29dcea85710b57f\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member who has just resumed his seat, David Garrett. I think he has put his finger on the nub of the issue, which is that in itself the Bail Amendment Bill will not do a lot. In fact, the very case he outlined\u2014the kind of situation he outlined\u2014is the exact reason why the last Labour Government changed the bail laws as soon as we became the Government and is the very reason we changed the Sentencing Act and parole laws the moment we became the Government: because we recognised the inherent unfairness and the danger to the community of existing legislation. But, as I said, none of us likes presiding over rising prison populations. It is a waste, but at the end of the day the safety of the community and the safety of the public have to be upheld. It is important that when people come up for bail, their previous history can be considered as an indication of the kinds of risks they might pose to the community if they were to be released. So, strangely enough, there is not a lot there that we disagree on, and I think that the Hon Phil Goff, who passed those amendments into law, had that in mind when he passed them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EBut I say to members again that we cannot forget the other side of the equation, which is that if we are constantly\u2014to use a very overused clich\u00E9\u2014the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff rather than the fence at the top, then parliaments in 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60 years\u2019 time will still be having these debates. There will still be far too many victims of violent crimes, and nothing will change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI appreciate that this is not a large bill: it is fewer than 50 words, I think, if we take out headings and the contents page. It did not really need the contents page, but that is all right\u2014it is standard. I ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Simon Power, which clause in this particularly short bill will prevent crime. I ask the Minister which clauses in this legislation will prevent family violence. I reiterate that this is the first law and order legislation we are seeing in National\u2019s 100 days of action; it is the top priority for the new Government in terms of law and order legislation in its first 100 days of action. It is significant: as a Parliament and as a country we can look at the first bill that comes up as an indication of the way that we will go forward. This is the bill that has come up first. I ask the minister which clause in this bill will prevent family violence and will encourage people to report family violence. I ask him how many crimes this bill will prevent. If this bill, as he says, will result in a large number of people being held in remand, how much has he budgeted for that increase? How many extra beds has he budgeted for? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI ask how he reconciles this legislation with the legislation his Government passed yesterday and today, which increased taxes on the most vulnerable families, and which took away the rights of workers in their first 90 days of employment to appeal against being sacked, even if they were sacked simply because their boss did not like them or their partners. How does he reconcile that legislation with this? Does he agree with his colleague Tony Ryall, who said in 2000 when Labour passed the Bail Act to toughen bail provisions that bail is a very important constitutional right and people should not have to be held in prison? The rhetoric that I heard on the election campaign certainly did not support that point of view. I think it is only right that as an Opposition party we come into this Parliament as a minority, hold the Government to account for the rhetoric its members gave us during the election campaign, and compare it with the reality of the legislation before us\u2014the first law and order legislation of this new National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EAfter going through an election campaign of fire and brimstone, of hell to pay for criminals, and of hell to pay for offenders, this is the first piece of legislation we get. It really does not do much, at all. It will not make a single person safer; a number of people have said that. We can play tit for tat over which justice said what and which academic said what, but the fact is that this bill will not make anyone safer, it will not live up to the rhetoric we heard during the election campaign, and it is the role of the Opposition to hold the Government to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u00225e394de05b444bda9e6bf76e1891e855\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e394de05b444bda9e6bf76e1891e855\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I want to address some of the questions that have been raised. I appreciate that although the Bail Amendment Bill is a short bill, it is appropriate for the Minister to have a say on one or two things. I also appreciate the fact that my predecessor in this job often made the effort to respond to questions that were put to her when she was sitting in this chair, so I am happy to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I say it is our hope that Parliament will realise that it is its job to clarify the matter in respect of the interpretation of bail laws. It is important that this Parliament sends a message about any ambiguities that could be interpreted by different members at different levels of different courts. That is why I am pleased that the Labour Party has decided today to support this legislation: because, if nothing else, some of the issues of different interpretation that have been outlined by some of the Opposition members will hopefully receive some sorting out. In the end, the matter of whether or not changes to bail contribute to the reduction in crime, even in a modest way, would have to be helped by clarification of, and an end to confusion about, the test that is to be applied in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe Hon Phil Goff made some comments in respect of the New Zealand Law Society\u2019s criminal law committee spokesperson, Jonathan Krebs, who told the Press on 20 November 2007 that changes to the Bail Act in that year had made it easier for people to get bail\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d9d425cca064b0ea954f1075ee930c3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: A little bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc8c3d0f4c874f2f97ac5ae45ac1f2cb\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Actually, the quote I have here is \u201Cmade it easier\u201D for people to get bail; I tell Mr Goff that is the version I have in front of me. Yes, the bar had been lowered a little bit, he said, but the safety of the community was still paramount and if a judge was concerned that an applicant might present a risk, bail could be refused. That is why clarification is needed in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EOn the issue of the number of remand beds, I say yes, I have seen the advice that members are referring to around the figure of 10 or so beds. In fact, I think I may have raised it in the House during the last Parliament. And just so that Mr Goff knows this, I tell him I have been National\u2019s spokesperson in the law and order area for only 3 years, not 9 years. I know it feels like 9 years to members opposite, but I have been there for only 3 years. But those members may be interested to know the latest figures I have available. As I said in the first reading, initial Ministry of Justice figures talked about an extra 50 to 100 beds\u2014maybe more. So we are talking about a reasonably significant change\u2014well, a change that is significantly more than the numbers that were indicated\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497503199c3645d48d5e8f8e20a457ea\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: What percentage would that be of all bail remands?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a9dcd253ef3451598c1d7a893b137ac\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I tell Mr Goff that he wanted me to answer questions, and I am doing that in respect of matters around the number of beds. I hope that clarifies that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I am concerned about is the practicality of the situation for individuals like members of the police and the Police Prosecution Service, who on a day-to-day basis deal with the upfront implications of previous laws in this area. We know that it is the view of the police that in fact the law change did make life more difficult for them when it came to bail applications. We know, for example, from the New Zealand Herald of 21 October 2007, where this matter was written about, that police prosecutors were shown a slide by Kelvin Campbell, the legal adviser to the Police Prosecution Service. It stated that the Bail Act and Sentencing Act amendments were to ease concerns over prison numbers, create new sentences short of imprisonment, and make it harder for the police to oppose bail as a result of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EFrankly, this is a time for us to tidy this issue up. That is why I am pleased that just about every party in Parliament has decided to support this legislation. It will make for a clarification of the issue. I think Dr Cullen\u2019s contribution to the second reading debate was a helpful one. These are big issues and they are difficult issues; no one is saying they are easy. But, at the end of the day, if we can keep people off the streets who would otherwise have got bail, by clarifying that test\u2014thereby hopefully enhancing public safety\u2014that cannot be a bad thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022217ba5d3d1db4291ae0e65365a336254\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022217ba5d3d1db4291ae0e65365a336254\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is not in the business of being in Parliament to make law that makes David Garrett feel better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f5b57586d454f67819a039552482102\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: That has got to be a shock to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b2af17dec6e4a2dae4b251cb8cf5f8e\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! That is not our sole reason for being in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294f9043f58ee4b81a50a25101fd40e1a\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not what you campaigned on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bef2cc28cb1419b837ce6cf998664cb\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: It is not what we campaigned on. Nor is it our business to be making law to make anybody feel better; we are here to make law that makes real change. There is an argument here, as the debate goes on, as to whether this legislation will do anything, whatsoever. We are hearing from one side of the Chamber that it will do nothing, and we are hearing from the other side that it might do a little bit. Either way, it is an appalling way to approach legislation. We should not be wasting an extra day of taxpayers\u2019 money on a Friday afternoon in having the whole House here to debate legislation for which there is no evidence of any description that it will actually do anything to keep people safer, to make significant changes to the prison muster, to keep dangerous offenders in prison as opposed to out, to reduce crime under any circumstances, or to impact at all on recidivism and reoffending. On that basis, this is an absolute and utter waste of taxpayers\u2019 time and money. Through this debate absolutely nothing will change, and nobody knows\u2014not even the Minister\u2014whether this legislation will make any change anytime in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThis is disgraceful behaviour, and a disgraceful reason to be using the kinds of precious resources that our community needs, when the community does need to be kept safer, and the community does have real fears. Much of that fear has been driven up by political fearmongering during the election campaign. Law and order has been used for that purpose for quite a number of years, but there are real concerns in the community, and they should be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ESo how will we deal with those concerns about reoffending, reducing the amount of crime in our community, and trying to keep people out of prisons? In many ways, prisons are holding cells for the potential capacity of enormous development in this country, particularly from a M\u0101ori point of view. Too many of our M\u0101ori people are in prisons, for all the structural racist reasons that I set out earlier in my first reading speech and that Rahui Katene set out in hers. It is a huge waste of potential to have people trapped in our prisons, but the law and order debate that is being held at this high level in Parliament, and therefore filtered out into the community, is one of doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results. Of course, as we all know, that is the definition of insanity, not rational, evidence-based legislation and lawmaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe need to change the debate and we need to change what we do to make this community safer. We know that if we keep people away from prison, they are less likely to reoffend. We know that for a fact, so surely there is room here for a serious discussion and serious debate, and for legislation that looks at ways of keeping people away from jail, because we know that if they stay away from jail they are less likely to reoffend. That is a means by which we can reduce the recidivism rate; it is a means by which we can keep our communities safer. But instead of dealing with legislation to keep people away from prisons, we are debating legislation that will put more people in prison, and we are somehow expecting, despite the evidence to the contrary, that this will keep our communities safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EIt is of some interest\u2014at least to me, I guess\u2014that this issue is not faced by New Zealand alone. New Zealand suffers from the problem of a failure both of the imagination and of rational, evidence-based legislation in terms of finding the real solutions, and of enacting and putting in place the real solutions to reducing offending and reducing reoffending. Australia is dealing with the same issues. It has recently had a number of law changes that have made it much harder to get bail over there and, as a result, its prisons are absolutely bursting at the seams. It is a particular issue in New South Wales. They are talking about having to build a new prison in New South Wales every 2 years, just to keep the growing population of prisoners in jail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u00225147b6f2d26a42cbbd1f2cbfeb4f0f1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225147b6f2d26a42cbbd1f2cbfeb4f0f1e\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022 data-id=\u0022741e0f4b2a324aaea6055bee7b0ef41f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022741e0f4b2a324aaea6055bee7b0ef41f\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am glad that the Minister took a call, but I urge him to take another call and give a more comprehensive explanation to the questions he was asked. I acknowledge Metiria Turei\u2019s speech, because she made some extremely valid points in terms of the politicising of this really important issue, the knee-jerk reaction, and the going for the populist line on things. National has claimed that it would be tough, and that this bill would be a really, really important tool in terms of its commitment to dealing with crime. I actually think that National has almost committed itself to stopping crime in New Zealand\u2014is that right\u2014but by its very presence this bill implies that Labour\u2019s 2007 amendment legislation had a detrimental effect on remand. By its very presence, that has to be the case the Minister and the National Government are putting up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003ELabour knows that the figures show that that is simply not the case\u2014that the remand prison population has continued to grow at a rate greater than the sentenced population, despite the 2007 amendment to the Bail Act. In July 2007 remands, which included prisoners held in police stations, totalled 1,733 and comprised 21 percent of the total prison muster. By July 2008 remands had increased by almost 6 percent and constituted 23 percent of the total prison muster. I agree with Metiria Turei that the measure of our effectiveness in crime prevention in New Zealand should not be in terms of the numbers of people on remand. But the Government\u2019s argument is that this bill is so important\u2014and this is what I still want the Minister to explain\u2014that it has to be pushed through in urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EI would very much like Sandra Goudie to take a call. As chair of the Law and Order Committee, I believe that it would be very appropriate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2ebd9f8bbff4a469907b7fb41c15711\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The law and order \u201Ctsar\u201D!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213bd9ec7f422430bae79ec03ead79942\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, the member was not listening; I will say it again: I would like Sandra Goudie to take a call on this bill. I am sure that she, as chair of the Law and Order Committee\u2014and I have sat very occasionally with Sandra Goudie on committees\u2014like all other members, values the input of submissions and the select committee process. I think everyone in this House would acknowledge that that process is a very good idea. We see that it is a very effective process. We see bills go to that committee that are at the very most thrown out, that do not go forward. They may be unchanged, but often, and more appropriately, they are changed because we get constructive ideas coming through. Those are not always criticisms; they are often technical points. Yes, I hope Sandra Goudie is speaking to the Minister, and I am hoping she can take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022077b0c1de170428e90b6faf8b6ee8291\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Where is she going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220640962b42b04da5b10c62abd8b0e51a\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not allowed to say what is happening now, but I do hope she will take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EI do not think the Minister has answered the question. In fact, I made a note of one of his responses, which was that part of the reason for the bill was to tidy up this issue. But I take Metiria Turei\u2019s point. If we are tidying an issue up, why are we in urgency, depriving the public of a say, and pushing through a bill that National and ACT, it seems to me, have acknowledged will really not have very much effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003EI have not heard the M\u0101ori Party take a call on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289c434657dbc437888f0e4a26b7329b4\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They did!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e18b7947cf6740c799b79cbd9173794f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221a479fd884e4d308fda4d3d65eef3f8\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, it did earlier. But if that is the case, I am still completely perplexed as to why the Bail Amendment Bill is being pushed through in urgency. Given Labour\u2019s 2007 amendment, which was to clarify the law, promote consistency in decision making and respond to judicial decision, I would like to hear the Minister again explain how this bill will achieve that, or improve on that. I think those are very important points. The Minister has talked about ambiguity, and surely that scrutiny should have been made at a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u00221534b981107b4aa58e5cbbd19a59e30c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221534b981107b4aa58e5cbbd19a59e30c\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Minister of Justice for taking one of what will be quite a number of calls, I hope, to answer questions put to him by members on this side of the Chamber, and by the Green Party. I hope that David Garrett takes a call; I am quite enjoying his contribution here today. I believe that he is probably his own man, but he might have some questions he would like to put to the Minister. He may even have some luck in getting some answers to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that he is certainly being a better role model than his colleague Kate Wilkinson, who failed to get out of her chair, hour after hour, to answer questions. I think it is probably because the Minister knows that when a bill is taken through the House under urgency, where there is no scrutiny, then it is important that the members of this House have the opportunity to question the Minister, and to get answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EOne of the answers the Minister gave was I think partially in response to the question I asked: would he please define for Parliament, and for New Zealanders, how the community\u2019s safety would be measured? The Minister said that the bill sends a message. But I say to the Minister that I do not think it is good enough for the bill just to send a message. I remember Clem Simich, whom I am very, very fond of, say in 1993 that he would take a message to Parliament, and 15 years later we still had not had the message, even by the time he left. So, for the Minister to say that the bill is sending a message is not a strong enough reason to have brought in this bill under urgency. I ask the Minister to tell us how we will measure the success of this bill, because his members have been programmed to say that when it passes, the community \u201Cwill be safer\u201D, not \u201Cmay be safer\u201D. Examples have been given of how it will be safer; most of them did not relate, at all, to the bail Act changes. But National members have put those reasons up, so I have to assume that the Minister or the research unit gave them the information, or that it is what they said on the campaign trail. I believe that the Minister needs to tell this House and New Zealanders how we will be able to measure whether the community is safer because this bill will be passed by Monday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI also ask the Minister to table for us the advice he got from the Law Society, the judges, the Police Prosecution Service, and the Police Association, saying that the changes to the Bail Act in 2007 \u201Chave made it easier for defendants to get bail.\u201D I have not seen the advice but it is quoted in the explanatory note on the bill. What I have seen, and what I do have are the comments made by Jonathan Krebs on Close Up on 19 November 2007. I do have that, verbatim. He said: \u201CThe threshold of the bail test has been reduced a little bit.\u201D That is different from what the Minister said that Jonathan Krebs had said, so I would like the Minister to table that information. We will not be able to question the Law Society, the Police Prosecution Service, the judges, or the Police Association, because there is no select committee ability to do that. Therefore, to back up what is written in the bill, I think it is important that that advice to the Minister is tabled in this Parliament. I have only what is in front of me, but the Minister obviously has more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI am not at all surprised at the Police Association. I understand the police. The police in most cases oppose bail; that is part of their job. They have gone out and done the hard graft. They have found somebody whom they believe is responsible for the crime, and they are very determined to get that person into court. So I understand where the Police Association comes from, but I have not seen that advice provided. I ask the Minister whether it is possible for him to table that information today, or is it a collection of things sent to him that are hear say, and not actually fact? I think that is important, because in effect this will become our submission. The basis of the change that the Minister is making today, according to the explanatory note, is because of those comments made by those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb37c6e9df084ed4aec68ea305ebaec5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb37c6e9df084ed4aec68ea305ebaec5\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am just following on from my previous discussions. I was talking about the fact that in New Zealand the debate about law and order is stuck on retribution and punishment, as opposed to dealing with the real consequences, in terms of safety for the community, and the real need, which is to reduce reoffending and the recidivism rate. What we know, of course, is that what we are doing now\u2014which we continue to do in this House\u2014does not reduce the recidivism rate; it increases it, and there is no debate in this Chamber or amongst the broader community to look at the alternatives, the changes, that we need to make to reduce reoffending and to keep our communities safer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EIn Australia, and in New South Wales in particular, they suffer from exactly the same problem\u2014a massive increase in the number of prisoners due to toughened bail laws. Thousands of people are being held on remand as they await trial, and that is blowing out the costs of the prisons. Over there they talk about holding a prisoner at a cost of about $200 a day. There is nothing in the prison process, particularly for those who are held in remand, to help them to deal with their reoffending, whether it is in terms of rehabilitation or drug and alcohol treatments, particularly in terms of treatment support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EAs is the case here, very little is spent on rehabilitation or support for those who are on remand, or even those who get bail. This is where there is a huge hole, and others with more experience in the portfolio may want to make a contribution about that\u2014that there is no real support for those who are bailed. A young person with a first offence may get into some trouble and run with people who are more dangerous, older and more involved in crime, then get caught for some kind of offence, and get bailed to that same community of people\u2014the same family, the same home, and exactly the same circumstances that brought him or her into that criminal activity in the first place. There is no provision for them to get any kind of support to deal with the issues that brought them there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EFor many prisoners, drug and alcohol treatment is absolutely essential. Vast quantities of our prison muster have drug and alcohol addiction problems. Very few, especially those who have sentences of 6 months, get access to any kind of rehabilitation programme whatsoever. Then they are let back out into the community. And what do we expect, as we do the same thing over and over and do nothing to provide any assistance? We expect that they will magically decide to change everything about their experience and their lives and find a whole new way of living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThere is not only that. As some of my Labour colleagues have mentioned, they may then go into an environment where they may well get a job, which is often a life-saver, particularly for these young guys, to help keep them out of trouble. But what happens after 90 days? They will be fired and they will find themselves on a benefit, and on a 13 week stand-down because, as we have discovered, the Minister of Labour has not been able to fix that problem because she does not understand benefit law. [Interruption] National did not support the amendment to get rid of that stand-down. Young guys in particular end up on a merry-go-round of jail for further offending, trying to get work, finding themselves unemployed, going on a benefit again, getting back into crime, and going to jail\u2014round and round it goes. Where is the intervention? Where are the resources that would stop that roundabout? There are none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe have to bear in mind that for all the really nice words that Minister Power has said in the past about trying to put more money into drug rehabilitation programmes both in prison and out of prison, the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister have told their Ministers that there is no new money. There in no money for any of these kinds of programmes, so how will the Minister fulfil that promise? I have a great deal of faith in Simon Power. I have spent some time with him in the last 6 years in this House, and I know that he is a genuine person. I believe that he believes those things, but he has no money to put into rehabilitation programmes, restorative programmes, and programmes like the Sycamore Tree programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef7436df877347098d3ff516a234b067\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef7436df877347098d3ff516a234b067\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E There is a real and very significant risk that by passing this bill, this House will penalise hundreds of people on the off chance that we may\u2014I stress may\u2014stop one, or even two, people who stand accused but are not yet found guilty of the crime of which they are accused. It is important that we as members of Parliament remember, as the Hon Dr Michael Cullen said, that a fundamental tenet of our criminal justice system is that a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The rationale is that it is better to let one guilty person go than to imprison any who are not guilty. So it is important that we keep that in mind when we are remanding a person into custody\u2014they have not yet been found guilty of any crime. They are still presumed innocent of any crime they have been charged with. To remand them into custody, which is what this is about, is a very heavy penalty. It is a penalty that should be used only rarely, in very limited circumstances, where the police have sufficient evidence to convince the court that the defendant is highly likely to be convicted of the crime for which he or she stands charged, is on a serious charge, or is a danger to the public by either interfering with a witness, absconding or reoffending while on bail. There is a very real and significant risk that we could be causing injustice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is convinced that this bill is a knee-jerk reaction, as the member Metiria Turei has said. It is not a well-thought-out response to what everyone agrees is a problem. This bill does nothing to fix the problem. As a House, I presume of intelligent people, we should be sitting down and thinking this through properly. We should be putting it to a select committee, so that people who have more experience in this area than us can give it well-considered thought, come to talk to us about it, and give us some solutions that are well-thought-through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EIf this bill is passed our wallets will be hit, because Vote Corrections, no matter what the Minister has told anyone, will have to increase in size to pay for the huge increase in remand prisoners\u2014that is, people who are still presumed innocent. They have not been found guilty; they are still presumed innocent of any crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party agrees that the bill should not be pushed through under urgency. We should give the public a chance to have their say and to put up their ideas for dealing with this problem. And it is essential that Parliament does its job of making laws, and does not pass that duty on to the courts. There is a real danger here that if we do not do that, then the courts will. It is not the court\u2019s duty to make laws; it is the court\u2019s duty to interpret laws. Parliament should be telling courts what the law is, not the other way around. There is a danger there when we let the courts make laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI read from Moana Jackson\u2019s paper The Maori and the Criminal Justice System: a new perspective\u2014he whaipainga hou, Part 2, where he says that \u201CThe judge occupies a position in the eyes of the M\u0101ori community which is somewhat paradoxical. On the one hand, judges are held to be worthy of respect because of their learning and wisdom; on the other, they are responsible for injustice because of their service to an often prejudiced and unjust law.\u201D As parliamentarians, do we want to be remembered as the Parliament that passed unjust and prejudiced laws? We want to be making laws that will benefit all people, and at this stage this law does not benefit M\u0101ori. It does not benefit anyone, because it is a knee-jerk reaction. It is not doing what it is supposedly designed to do, and we need to be able to say to our people and to everyone out there that we have thought this decision through\u2014that we have done what the people say is the best thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI continue from Moana Jackson\u2019s paper: \u201CMany M\u0101ori are aware of, and continue to respect, the frequent questioning of colonial policy by the first Chief Justice, Sir Charles Martin. There is also continued anger and grievance at Chief Justice Prendergast\u2019s dismissal of the Treaty.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u002236209e9e7b6741b1a773fd46ed8c6f80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236209e9e7b6741b1a773fd46ed8c6f80\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I want to pick up on a couple of points that were made. Firstly, I think that the fabric of the Bail Amendment Bill has started to unravel. Even the coalition partner\u2014or whatever it is called\u2014the ACT Party\u2019s Mr Garrett made quite a valuable contribution. We finally teased it slowly out of him when he said that basically, the changes proposed by Mr Power and the National Party do nothing\u2014they do little. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe2af9c050234aa58740a79085edea49\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a7df710c9b24af29e82dc055faffe18\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the member did; I wrote it down. He said that in itself, this change will do \u201Clittle.\u201D That is what the member said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022761124b250e7423ab4ad7ca9b8e656eb\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: I said \u201Clittle\u201D. That is different from \u201Cnothing\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad0c87df26d24380849e5ae076280c4f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to whip out his Hansard and have a look at it. That is what the Opposition has been saying for the last few hours. This is political puffery. This is propaganda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIn response, the Minister said to Annette King, as the fabric of the legislation unravels and frays, that this legislation is designed to send a message. We have an admission from Mr Garrett\u2014he is a lawyer; I am not\u2014that this legislation will do virtually nothing. We have been saying that. Mr Power says it is designed to send a message. Well, by that admission we can see it is not designed to have any practical effect. At the start of this debate I said that the day after the enactment of this bill, no one in New Zealand will be any safer because of it. This is what we have now come down to. This is political puffery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe Minister did get up and do what the Minister last night failed to do: he answered some questions. One key question that was put to him again was about his position on the parole legislation. His policy is the sentencing, parole, and bail policy of the National Party. Nowhere in there can I read of Mr Power sending a message. Under the heading \u201COur Principles\u201D, National\u2019s policy states \u201CTough on crime.\u201D Being tough on crime was the principle, not the sending of a message. We now know, not only because of what the Opposition said but also because of Mr Garrett\u2019s admission, that this bill does virtually nothing\u2014very little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d588bf05fe304d0b8f1b69ade743014f\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: No, I said \u201Clittle\u201D, not \u201Cvirtually nothing\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b696b9cc48840ed9ca5d186621b2263\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CLittle\u201D, or virtually nothing. I do not have a dictionary in front of me, but I am sure that we could get the Collins English Dictionary out and have a debate about \u201Clittle, \u201Cvery little\u201D, or whatever. There is another, more colloquial way of putting it, but I will not do that because it would be unparliamentary. Nowhere in the policy that the Minister sent to people before the election did it say National was going to send a message, and that was all it was going to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe question that Mr Goff, Mrs King, and I put to the Minister was about a practical solution. A practical effect that would make people safer would be to trigger the parole legislation. He was asked by me, Mr Goff, and Mrs King when he would do that. I tell the Minister to feel free to interject and answer that question. When will he ring the Governor-General and sign off the Order in Council? Today? Tomorrow? Next week? He could turbo-boost it if he liked. He could ring now; there is a phone in front of him. When will he actually do that? There is no answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe other question that Mrs King put to the Minister was very interesting, because he had rattled off that he had evidence from the Police Association, the Police Prosecution Service, and the New Zealand Law Society that our change had weakened the test for granting bail. She asked him was whether he could table the evidence of that. I am reliably informed that when he was asked in a side-bar conversation what the evidence of that was and whether he would table it, the answer was that it consisted of news clippings, and that he had never tabled news clippings in his life. So now we know there is no evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe hem is starting to fray on this bill, because we have heard Mr Garrett say it is useless and does very little, judges have said there is no change with this legislation, and we know that it will not make one New Zealander safer the day after its enactment. I invite the Minister to change his mind, get up in Parliament, say \u201Ctaihoa\u201D, go out to the phone booth behind him, ring the Governor-General, and do something that will be tough on crime. He could text him. I am told the Governor-General is well up on technology; the Minister could text him. He could do something that would be, to quote his policy, \u201Ctough on crime\u201D, and enact the parole legislation through an Order in Council. I wonder whether he will get up after this and answer that question. If not today, then when will he do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ba52433a5d4d1aa73fcbd6746246e3\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Better than Kate Wilkinson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221086d0cbc2e443db8abf80fccad1c181\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: He is better than Kate Wilkinson; I agree. He has actually got up and made a contribution. I know he is itching to make another, but the whips have probably told him he is not allowed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcaf13b6c65345578dcd1a36820c077e\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: No, they\u2019re not allowed to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1cb9a4d4de246e9bd670873bd821890\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they are not allowed to do that. But when will he bring into force the parole legislation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThat is a fair and serious question, I say to the Minister. It is a fair and serious question. The Minister knows\u2014and all members, from both sides of the Chamber, who have made contributions and who have a view that we wish to help victims and to make New Zealanders and our communities safer know\u2014that we cannot compare this piece of political propaganda with a phone call from the Minister to the Governor-General that would actually make a real difference to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u00225613cea74ea04d57af31a42e68edc9da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225613cea74ea04d57af31a42e68edc9da\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224563545f7b19485ebd0c616bd06c0d95\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 3; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000627\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 63, Noes 48.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f7be155cb7b944e9b751741199ca8cc2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 106\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 3; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000628\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 63, Noes 5.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cbc8a6338cdf4e43a1bef0127e693afe\u0022\u003EClause 2  Commencement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022 data-id=\u002232244d3022ec47b7b8827ec98accd9b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232244d3022ec47b7b8827ec98accd9b8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: We now move on to clauses 2, 3, and 4. As these debates are not part by part debates but clause by clause debates, they will be narrow debates. Members are to confine themselves to the words of the particular clause and issues contained therein. These are not wide-ranging debates, and if members do stray, I will call them to order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u0022903edde6a2c943a28a2ae16529e1e0d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022903edde6a2c943a28a2ae16529e1e0d9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This debate will be a real test, will it not, for somebody who likes to speak on issues in a very broad manner. Clause 2 has the commencement date, and for those who do not know what this clause says, let me tell them what is in it. This clause states: \u201CThis Act comes into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D Well, of course, the obvious\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f35c82454e0b4b2b85c9df976bb486d5\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: You read it too fast; I couldn\u2019t understand it. Do it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ea384aeeaeb4058b46ee34b15a608a5\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: For the sake of those who did not hear what I said, and were asleep, it states: \u201CThis Act comes into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D The obvious and first question to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Simon Power, is when this bill will receive the Royal assent. It is quite obvious that the Government has been having some problems with dates and organisation, with getting things organised and getting things down on paper, as we have seen in the House. In fact, I happened to see the organisational paper outlining what was going on in the House\u2014Gerry Brownlee\u2019s running sheet\u2014and it was written on the back of an envelope. So I am worried that the Minister has not yet decided on which date he will get the Royal assent for this bill. Will he get the Royal assent for this bill on Monday? Will he have the Governor-General come up to Parliament on Monday to sign off this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EYou see, I believe that it has to be Monday, because this legislation is so urgent that we have to be here on Friday at a quarter to 5 to debate it. We have to debate this legislation under urgency so that it can be given the Royal assent on Monday, because it will make an earth-shattering difference to the people of New Zealand. It has to be Monday; the Government will have wasted hours and hours of the public\u2019s time, Parliament\u2019s time, and taxpayers\u2019 time if the bill does not get the Royal assent on Monday at least. Maybe Tuesday we could accept; maybe we could accept another day, so that the Minister could write it out\u2014so that he could get his officials to put the signature down for him, and so on\u2014but it would have to be no later than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to know from the Minister is whether we will receive the evidence for the need for this bill before it is given the Royal assent. Will we receive and will we have tabled in this Parliament the evidence that the Minister used as the basis for this bill, before we get the Royal assent on it, which could happen on Monday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd1999e9f324d3a83b42603cb28b66e\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223989802bd54a45598b717d994e559a06\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Or maybe on Tuesday, or maybe Wednesday, or perhaps next Friday. But will we get the evidence? That is quite important, because before the Governor-General\u2019s signature goes on this bill, I suspect that the Minister will have to write to the Governor-General to tell him what this bill does. That is what we used to do\u2014we used to say what legislation does. When the Governor-General faces the Minister and is about to put his signature on it in order to give it the Royal assent, he will ask the Minister to show him the evidence for this bill. He will have noted that the Minister said in the explanatory note that the evidence for this bill comes from the Law Society, the Police Association, the Police Prosecution Service, and a number of High Court judges. The Governor-General will ask, before he signs this bill, to see the evidence. I ask the Minister whether we will see that evidence. Will Parliament, the Governor-General, or anybody else see the evidence that was the basis for this legislation, before it receives the Royal assent? Is that unreasonable? I ask Mr Garrett whether it is unreasonable. I ask whether he would like to see the evidence that was the basis for this bill, as stated in the explanatory note. That should be done before the Royal assent is given to this legislation\u2014on Monday, or maybe Tuesday, because it is an urgent matter, given that the House has been required to debate it under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister, who is getting out of the chair, that I really thought we might well have that evidence before he finished his tour of duty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022140c1920731443259d731cf4031eb08b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We have had a change of Minister in the chair, but the Minister in charge of the bill is still in the Chamber. If the Minister in charge of the bill is in the Chamber, he or she is required to sit in the chair. The Minister can be relieved only if he is to be absent. I see that he is still here. I think he should take this matter a little bit more seriously than having the member for Whangarei, of all people, sitting in the chair. We have the Attorney-General here, who at least is knowledgable on these matters. The idea that Mr Heatley would be knowledgable is just preposterous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ea69147fb7c473ebc092d299ad31b75\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Hughes. The point is well made. Order has now been resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281e1981fd6d5492fbb349a3af7b5256a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman. I do feel, however, my colleague\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6fdae4c40904b68be46b7d119c88a27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6fdae4c40904b68be46b7d119c88a27\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E The commencement date is exceptionally relevant, because once the Governor-General signs the Bail Amendment Bill and it is enacted, certain impacts will flow from it. We should not bring, and I do not intend to bring, the Governor-General into the debate, but we know that he is a former judge. I have been a Minister and have attended Executive Council, and I know that the Governor-General is often wont to ask questions around legislation\u2014certainly with Orders in Council\u2014before he signs them off. As my colleague Annette King has said, I suspect that, being a former judge, he may well have questions. As a judicial official he was required to make decisions on evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI too would like to know whether, as the legislation is packaged and sent up to the Governor-General, there will be an attachment of news clippings, because that appears to be all the evidence the Minister of Justice, Simon Power, has for the effectiveness of the bill\u2014news clippings, hearsay, and opinion. I ask whether the impacts of this legislation will be summarised and attached to it as it is sent up to Government House for the Royal assent, because once that Royal assent is applied we know what those impacts will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EOf course, this point about the consequent impacts is very relevant. We have heard Mr Garrett say this legislation being passed and signed off by the Governor-General will have little impact, and that little will change. We now know from Mr Power that once the Governor-General signs off this legislation, all that it will do will be to send a message, and nothing will change. I ask whether Mr Power might take this legislation himself in the limousine to the Governor-General and ask His Excellency: \u201CWould you mind signing this other document?\u201D, which would trigger the parole legislation regarding two-thirds of a sentence. That would have the dual effect of making people safer and of being tough on crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5be5a08568b4608bcb89a73f02e9709\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: You said this didn\u2019t have an effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd4405e50ce4436cbd8a915ba66b2d1e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed\u2014is the Minister agreeing with me? Will he take it up to Government House and trigger the parole legislation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI would like to know whether the Minister will be prepared to tell the Governor-General why the Government is passing this legislation before he signs it, and to explain the evidence that legitimises the legislation and the consequent impacts that will flow from it. I ask whether he is prepared to commit to His Excellency that every New Zealander will be safer and that, as Melissa Lee pointed out, the day after this is signed there will be no more breaches of bail\u2014it is almost as if no more crimes will be committed, if we listen to National members\u2014and I ask whether he is prepared to give those commitments to the Governor-General as the legislation is signed and, therefore, enacted on its date of commencement. These are legitimate questions, Mr Chair, as you will know, being the previous Minister for Courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EAs I say, the Governor-General, being a former judicial officer, may well want to query his responsible Ministers, from whom he takes advice, as to the consequent impacts of this legislation. I suspect His Excellency will look at this legislation and conclude, as we do, that it changes nothing, and that once it is enacted and has the commencement date put in place the status quo will effectively remain. That is what we have heard in speeches from the learned gentleman Mr Garrett, in the evidence from Justice Heath, and in the evidence the Opposition has put forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EBefore we move on to the next clause I would again ask the Minister whether he is prepared to answer Mrs King\u2019s questions about parole, and whether he is prepared to table the evidence, or if he will not table it with us, then to provide His Excellency with it as the legislation is signed and given the Royal assent. Maybe then Mrs King and I could write to His Excellency and ask him whether he would release it and mail it to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThere is no evidence. Not one shred of evidence has been produced. We know that the consequential impacts that will flow when this legislation is given the Royal assent will be none\u2014zero. There are no impacts and there are no changes. The status quo will simply remain. We have heard that from Mr Garrett. A little bit will change, but, in effect, nothing will change. This is not part of National\u2019s \u201Cget tough on crime\u201D policy, but I invite the Minister, as he pops up to Government House with this legislation, to simply lean over and say: \u201CHere is another piece of paper, your Excellency. Could you trigger the parole legislation?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266d3c9dc5ced4013b2d183d34ae016e6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next member, I advise members that they should try to resist the temptation to bring the Governor-General into this debate and to speculate about the Governor-General\u2019s motives and about how he might approach this matter. I want to make sure that members are aware of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u00220b72248b5ed04c9fb9b1037d4ca471df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b72248b5ed04c9fb9b1037d4ca471df\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The commencement clause debate is quite useful, and it has been helpful to hear some of the more experienced MPs talk about it. I am interested in how the impacts of the Bail Amendment Bill are going to be measured once it commences and comes into force, given that it has been only a year or so since the last lot of changes that this legislation reverses came into force. No evidence has been tabled or presented in the House during the debate about the impact of that legislation in the short period of time it has been in force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242b5f6736cbc43f990da78d5799e88f3\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. You directed that the debate would be narrow and on the subject matter of the clause. I fail to see how measurement of effects has anything to do with a commencement date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222189cf22991745eeb5a0715db74d09f7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member was relating the date to impacts before and after, but it is broadening the debate out a bit. I draw members\u2019 attention to the point that the debate is about the commencement date and issues around the commencement date itself, not a wide-ranging debate beyond that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225353a4f54d8b431dbd9d4d43b1044e4e\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: We have no idea when the commencement of this bill will be. What we do know is that once it has commenced at some time in the unknown future there will be a significant cost associated with it. The regulatory impact statement talks about $7 million per year, plus another $38 million in capital expenditure. Those costs will start to be incurred on the commencement of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI suggest to the Minister of Justice that it would be a wise move to invest the same amount of money as will be invested in the management of this legislation, once it commences on some unknown future date, in the alternatives that have been known and proven to be effective at reducing reoffending in the past. Should $7 million be invested in rehabilitation at the commencement of this legislation at some time in the unknown future, we would then be able to assess, within a year of this legislation commencing, whether it made a difference, or whether the alternatives made a difference to keeping our communities safer, reducing reoffending rates, increasing the support for young offenders, and to the subsequent issues around drug and alcohol treatment and the opportunities that might bring. But without a clear indication from the commencement clause as to how the effects of the legislation will be measured and managed, it will be impossible to tell whether this bill has any point to it whatsoever, especially as we have no previous information about the changes this legislation makes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI suggest to the Minister that if he can squeeze some cash out of his Government, which of course sounds completely impossible, that would be a useful opportunity to take on the commencement of this legislation. There is no point in passing legislation that will do nothing, yet will cost well over $40 million. In fact, even the regulatory impact statement says that it is difficult to estimate the impact of reversing the 2007 changes, and it is virtually impossible to know what the impacts of this legislation will be once it comes into force. We are talking about the lives of real people here, too. We are talking about young people\u2019s lives, about their ability to be educated, to have their serious issues addressed, and to get jobs. All of those issues are affected at the time that this legislation comes into force. We are not talking about obscure people or obscure numbers. We are talking about real people\u2019s daily lived lives. I am sure many members of this House know of people for whom this legislation will have that very serious effect. Those are the people whom we are here to protect and care for. Those are the people who are affected by this legislation coming into force at some unknown time in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022 data-id=\u002234344ff2c21f4e588733e06ff65a1932\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234344ff2c21f4e588733e06ff65a1932\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take the next call, I remind members that the debate is about the words. To simply mention the words and then go off on this, that, or any other peripheral subject is taking the debate beyond what it is. The debate is a narrow one about the actual words themselves. If members do not address the words, then that simply invites the Chair to accept a closure motion earlier than he might otherwise have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5ed197ac0d945a0a9b30e9350da5d1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5ed197ac0d945a0a9b30e9350da5d1b\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2f0bb9cb4fb4c5783c7f2dad5b5fde5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2f0bb9cb4fb4c5783c7f2dad5b5fde5\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to make a small contribution in the Committee stage on clause 2. The reason Labour members feel the need to make sure we are examining each aspect of this legislation is that this is another example of a bill that has not been to a select committee. It was given to the Opposition at a quarter to midnight on Wednesday, and its first reading, second reading, Committee stage, and third reading are being rushed through under urgency. So unless we can debate this matter now, there will be no other opportunity for this bail law to be considered by anybody at any time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EIn a way, clause 2 is the clause that has the most important impact for the whole legislation. It is the trigger clause. It is the clause that will decide when all this will start. Up until now we have heard debates about the merits of this legislation, about the changes to the bail law, and about the way this bill is being held up as being some kind of great change, when in fact the scrutiny we have been able to give it through this process has shown that it is, as my colleague the Hon Clayton Cosgrove said, a bit of a hoax. It is a flimflam measure that we do not believe will have the kind of effect the Government has been saying it will have. In fact, in saying it is going to be so serious about law and order and crime issues, the Government has really been holding this measure up as being some sort of major, huge change. Yet when we go through the meat of this bill, and we see how small it is and what a small difference it will make, it is hard for us to believe that this is part of a grand 100-day vision. But, of course, as clause 2 makes clear, the day after the bill receives its Royal assent it will become law in this country. It will be held up as a measurement, a yardstick, as to how effective the Government has been in delivering on its crusade for sentencing, parole, and the effects of bail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EI want to ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Simon Power, a few questions about what he is proposing to do in order to give effect to clause 2. Obviously, he cannot sign the law as he is not the Governor-General, although I suspect he will be, as part of some future deal when he gets edged out in that last little rush. It will be a very sort of Jeffrey Archer moment, we might say, when, in a decision made in a First Among Equals kind of environment, Mr Power will be put in as the Governor-General. But I am focusing on the present time when he does not hold that high office, and we can be very clear that the bill will become law not on the day that the Royal assent is given but on the day after that date. The Opposition is very keen to hear from the Minister about what he plans to do in the time between the bill\u2019s third reading and the time he submits it to the Governor-General for His Excellency\u2019s Royal assent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EIt seems to me the Minister might like to consider a couple of things between the third reading and the date of clause 2 taking effect with the Royal assent. We would like to hear about some process issues from the Minister, particularly around his ministerial responsibility in liaising with the judiciary. Throughout the earlier parts of the debate, the Committee of the whole House was told about some of the more negative comments that have been made by people who are involved in the judiciary\u2014who are lawyers or those working with judges\u2014and who believe that this is an unusual step to be taking. What measures does he, along with his colleague the Attorney-General, plan to take to build the confidence of the judiciary in this bill before it receives its Royal assent, so that the day after, when it becomes the law, he has built up a constituency of support amongst those who are going to have to use this law and give effect to it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EI think it is quite important that the Minister can tell the Committee that. There has not been the chance for any external view to be taken, because the bill has been rushed, there has been no select committee process, and the bill was tabled by the Leader of the House at a quarter to midnight as part of a very unusual way in which the Leader of the House is running the House. That scrutiny might be able to take place between the passing of the third reading and the time when clause 2 takes effect\u2014in that brief window of opportunity the Minister will have available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EWe know the Minister is an efficient man. We read the newspapers. We see he does not keep any paper on his desk, at all. We know from the feature articles that have been written about him that he likes to move things through very quickly. He is so efficient that he has written a bill that comprises only one page on such a serious issue as bail, apparently, but that is irrelevant. What is more relevant is what happens for the Minister, so I have covered what needs to happen with regard to the judiciary and the legal fraternity in that period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003EThe second period relates to stakeholder groups like the Sensible Sentencing Trust. Mr Garrett touched on this in his contribution. He has been the legal representative of the Sensible Sentencing Trust, and he came in at No. 5 on the ACT list because of an arrangement with that trust. It has delivered him into Parliament here. The Sensible Sentencing Trust this week said that it was the most effective lobby group in New Zealand. We received an email from Garth McVicar about this bill. So in between this period of the third reading and clause 2 taking effect with the Royal assent, I would like to know from the Minister whether he plans not only to engage with the judiciary about this bill before he can recommend it to his Excellency but also to talk to stakeholders like the Sensible Sentencing Trust, because it seems to me there is a very, very close relationship between the Sensible Sentencing Trust and the National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government. We want to make sure there is actually some arrangement for that to take place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022 data-id=\u00221ad84a50ee4a4f1aa8e94566e640e770\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ad84a50ee4a4f1aa8e94566e640e770\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I move that the question now be put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d98edbda44944e482cd28589f3bfa33\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the question be now put. Those of that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022 data-id=\u002293448d5d6c094d29a50ed14a1f899d33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293448d5d6c094d29a50ed14a1f899d33\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I want to be very clear that I am not challenging your ruling at all\u2014I am not going to do that\u2014but the member did not put the closure motion correctly; she did not use the correct sequence of words. You cannot accept a closure motion that has not been put correctly. That is a longstanding ruling. She did not get the words right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b764d0d58d1406a920e85d71af3d23f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Moana Mackey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u00225d35d85b98b94aa88ea5529b4b9ccc72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d35d85b98b94aa88ea5529b4b9ccc72\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to contribute to the debate on clause 2, the commencement clause, which, to some people, might not seem to be a particularly important clause. In fact, it is extremely important. For the benefit of those who have only started listening to this debate since my colleague the Hon Annette King gave her contribution, I say clause 2 reads: \u201CThis Act comes into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D For most people, that is fairly meaningless, because we are not privy to knowing on which date the bill will receive the Royal assent. Yet this bill is being introduced into the House, in the 100 days of action\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2c9b1ca42ff489296894f0d1862c579\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Turbocharged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ced8d813136e48d49ff5cf8fe24dc881\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in the turbocharged 100 days of action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: on which day of that 100 days of action will this bill receive the Royal assent? The reason why that is important is that the Act comes into force on the day after the bill receives the Royal assent. So the day on which the bill receives the Royal assent is of critical importance to the people of New Zealand. I am not sure which day of the 100 days of action we are at now. Is this day one or day two? It may well receive the Royal assent on day 35 of the 100 days of action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223833b4766b0a4d0e93aa55600026c399\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Urgency might make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c903db69d0ce41e1936396a9c69f4ddd\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Urgency might make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe reason I ask these questions is that this bill has not gone to a select committee. It is not going through the normal process. Clause 2 does not tell us exactly what day it will be. We have had other bills in this urgency motion that have included dates in their commencement clause, so we have known exactly when they were to become law. But when a bill simply states that the Act will come into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent, then the date on which it receives the Royal assent becomes of critical importance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister again to give us some indication, because we have been promised 100 days of action. Will the Act come into force outside that 100 days of action, in which case there will be no sentencing legislation coming into force in the 100 days of action as was promised during the election campaign? Once again I point out that it is the role of the Opposition to hold the Government to account for its rhetoric in the election campaign, and if the Minister could give us some indication of when he intends to provide the evidence to the Governor-General as to why this bill should receive the Royal assent, then the Opposition would be interested in hearing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227415515dbe01408e89a3219a224da2ab\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244312a2f37eb466797da7f456a53a702\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mapp is not very happy. If those members had managed to read the closure motion properly, then I would have been denied the opportunity to ask these important questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288ce92cf65764613b2ae781b15d8d348\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: And you did ask them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223269605aff984e4d839040c4f7877cbf\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. One of the reasons is that law and order was a key campaign plank for the National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government. It is the role of the Opposition to ensure that that rhetoric comes into some kind of reality or the Government will be held to account. So I say to the \u201CNational - ACT - Te Ururoa Flavell Government\u201D that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bae42cc813234fddaa490247b64c0a5b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225755631cb4844921b4165ec1fd2cbfe6\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I bring your attention to Standing Order 107 about relevancy. The previous Chairman instructed speakers to be relevant and speak to the title, because I think we need to bring this to a close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2fe63b25efa4a9f95b4be449da31afc\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e1e51aea854971a1fd81736c3c8751\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need any further assistance. It has been made very clear that this is a very narrow debate on the commencement. Would the member confine her comments to those points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ee5a22ee05147ab94539e77bc67976f\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. You are absolutely right about the question of relevance; you have to judge that for yourself. But one point I would make is there was a lot of noise in the Chamber while my colleague was trying to speak, both from the Opposition side\u2014we will take our responsibility\u2014and the Government side, and for a speaker trying to talk about a very narrow clause like this is difficult, so maybe you could keep a little bit more order in the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022508467409b9a4bf49188ff1a83641f77\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am very happy to limit my comments to the commencement clause. I shall refer to the comments made by my colleague from the Green Party Metiria Turei about how important it is that the public knows exactly on which day this Act is to come into force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257d998ac63144cd5b644071316c964f7\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: It states it in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6df311855a746f8bec33af1f4cc0b2f\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, it does not state it in the bill, and this is the point we are trying to make. Any indication from the Minister as to when he believes he will take this bill to receive the Royal assent would be greatly appreciated not only by the Opposition but, I am sure, also by the people of New Zealand who are listening to this debate, because they were promised action within the first 100 days. The commencement date does not tell us whether this legislation will come into force within those 100 days, and if it does not, then the Government has failed in that respect to match the rhetoric of the election campaign, in which it promised tougher sentencing and bail laws within the first 100 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb63bbe538b9424393cacf32f309d277\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecc65b1da5c64582bc6a3f9a8b15e944\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb63bbe538b9424393cacf32f309d277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecc65b1da5c64582bc6a3f9a8b15e944\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225fc5b1468a3d43beabd97a7746c4380e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 3; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000691\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 63, Noes 47.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002203756697e92546c19da0271800a98dce\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 106\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 3; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000692\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 106, Noes 5.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022 data-id=\u0022255a7d081df74eaf9b2d2e01c8d8d9c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022255a7d081df74eaf9b2d2e01c8d8d9c6\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the Committee to amend the vote of the M\u0101ori Party on the closure motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e36ffa79155a4ae4b88513dcb718c9f0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for the M\u0101ori Party to change its vote on the closure motion from 2 to 3. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dba477738ce433bac1525c6523bffe2\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. I thought I did say 3, but we have been 3 consistently pretty much this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c0d65f0b1c41bc9760f5352fe0f1bd\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The corrected vote for the closure is 63 for, and 48 against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab803e7ba1524ad886b60bf5e859ca46\u0022\u003EClause 3  Principal Act amended\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u0022182891982eb3459eb71d47feaf680c7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022182891982eb3459eb71d47feaf680c7f\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Clause 3 amends the Bail Act 2000, and I am delighted that Tony Ryall is actually in the Chamber at this point, because the passing of the Bail Act in 2000 was something that Mr Ryall was pretty much opposed to. In fact, he said at that time that bail was a very, very important constitutional right, and people should not be held in prison. That was the quote from Mr Ryall at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EOf course, the Bail Act 2000 strengthened the bail legislation that had been previously there. I want to share with the Committee what the Ombudsman said in his report about the Bail Act 2000. He said that Act was enacted following an increase in offending while on bail and growing public, political, and media pressure for change. Well, of course, we all know 2000 was a few months after Labour became the Government after 9 long years of a National Government, which had the opportunity to strengthen the bail legislation when it was in Government, but which did not make the changes that were being sought. So the Bail Act was enacted following growing public, political, and media pressure for change. At that time two major changes were made to the legislation. It contained increases in the circumstances in which the onus was on the defendant to justify a release on bail rather than relying on the prosecution to justify a custodial remand\u2014the reverse onus of proof. That is when that was brought in. The second change made at that point was to provide for breaches of bail conditions to be recorded and to be available subsequently when bail was an issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EAt the time the National Party said we had gone too far, we were being too tough, and people had the right to have bail. We believed that people had the right to have bail, but we were responding to the pressure at that time for there to be a tightening-up of the bail legislation. We made a substantial and significant change in 2000 in the Bail Act, and that is recognised by the Ombudsman in his report. He made this point. In March 1997 the total prison muster was 4,967, comprising 4,417 sentenced prisoners and 550 people on remand. Ten years later the total sentenced prison population was 6,053, a 37 percent increase. The remand population was 1,724, an increase of over 200 percent out of a total muster of 7,775. If the remand population had increased at the same rate as the sentenced population\u2014that is, by 37 percent rather than by over 200 percent\u2014the remand population would have been 753 and the total prison muster would have been approximately 6,786, which is nearly 1,000 fewer than the actual muster. So the changes that were made in the Bail Act 2000 made a significant difference to those remanded on bail. At that time a real difference was made, and it continues to be made, regarding people who are remanded on bail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EBut in the Bail Amendment Bill we have a change to a small, minor change made in 2007 in order to clarify the issue of significant risk. A small change was made to the Act then, not for the purpose of putting more people into prison or out of prison but to clarify the issue, as requested by judges. That was the purpose\u2014to make it clearer\u2014and the impact was estimated to be around 10 more prisoners a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c949a9614301483691e03ef7f5d5ffb7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Before we carry on, I point out that this debate is a very narrow debate. Although clause 3 refers to the provisions of the Bail Act 2000, it does not justify talking about that Act. The debate is about the impact that this legislation before us has. It is not about the overall provisions of the Act. Clause 3 is a very narrow clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcde38762c71457e866004527a953fc2\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: This amendment is to the Bail Act, and I was setting out what the changes were and what this change is. I think that has to be made clear, so people understand the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af97f6919c264f379c4ac4eccaee7a97\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I will be watching this debate very closely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b18ab9bf36314eafb40d34a09e25fa13\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The change that the 2007 amendment made was not about putting fewer people in prison; it was about clarifying the Act. The Minister is nodding his head and agreeing with me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EIn fact, it has been made clear during the debate that this amendment to the Bail Act 2000 makes very little difference at all. I think that one of the most significant things that were said during the debate was said by David Garrett of the ACT Party, which is probably the strongest campaigner on law and order\u2014it certainly had the biggest billboards and it certainly made the most noise, in conjunction with the Sensible Sentencing Trust. David Garrett declared today that this amendment to the Act makes little difference. I can see Mr Boscawen looking at me and thinking maybe I am not quoting him correctly, but I say to Mr Boscawen that that is exactly what he said. My definition of \u201Clittle\u201D is that it is not big, so it must be tiny. It is little; he is quite right. It is a little change to the Act. It was clarified in 2007, and the change back, according to the ACT Party, is a very little change indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EWell, if this amendment is a little change indeed, then one has to ask why we are debating it now. Why are we debating it under urgency? It is a little change, a minor change\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022844a13ae16c34fb39224cadfd0d7d055\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Insignificant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022739bbe06e36b4720902b6fbaaca233f4\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: It is an insignificant change, in fact, and it is being seen as so important that we are rushing it through under urgency. We are bemused by that. We are bemused by the fact that we have not been given the evidence for making this little change, as the ACT Party has described it. We have not been provided with the evidence\u2014and I have asked the Minister to provide it\u2014as to why this amendment is so important that it has to be made now. And we have not been provided with evidence anyway\u2014it is hearsay, I believe, and it is newspaper clippings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EIt is unheard-of for a Government to amend legislation of such significance as the bail legislation, with this little change, based on a few newspaper clippings. I cannot recall that happening before. I cannot recall the Ministry of Justice putting that forward as the evidence as to why we should make this change today under urgency. I do not believe that the professionals within the ministry would give the Minister a collection of press statements on which to base his decision to make this amendment to the Act. I do not believe that they said: \u201CHere, Minister, is something from the Sunday News and Truth. This is what you can use for your evidence. We\u2019ll put that into the bill and say it is the evidence in the explanatory note.\u201D I do not believe that is the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI believe it is important that the Minister provides the evidence for this amendment to the Act today. It has to happen, so that we can see why it was so important to make this little change now. We have heard that the National Party believes this little change will solve crime, stop violence on our streets, and make our communities safer. Simon Bridges should not be shaking his head. If he had been listening to the debate, he would have heard his colleagues say that is exactly what will happen once the bill receives the Royal assent. They said this bill will make our communities safer on Tuesday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267264c2e6a5a407f99c375c1b63638b4\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Reduce crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb9c38aab0742f693012610dd60342a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No. I say to the member that one of the things about this House is that everything a member says goes into Hansard, and we all get to look at it eventually. So I say to the member that he should look at what his colleagues were saying. They said the bill would make the community safer once it was passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226079341204614edd896e5798bad4e767\u0022\u003EHon Dr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: Quite right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229db4410182f34cd497952a015521d387\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201CQuite right.\u201D, says \u201CProfessor Worth\u201D. I will hold him to that. If communities are not safer on Monday after the bill gets the Royal assent, I can only assume that the member was hoodwinking the public of New Zealand with that comment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EEveryone knows this bill is nonsense. Everybody knows it is rubbish. Everyone knows it is flimflam and part of a political agenda. It has nothing at all to do with the safety of the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa699fa22bab410cb49ece9049694a74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa699fa22bab410cb49ece9049694a74\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u0022c41340eb6096406b858412a393b8e031\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c41340eb6096406b858412a393b8e031\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Clause 3, \u201CPrincipal Act amended\u201D, as my colleague Annette King just noted, states that the bill amends the Bail Act 2000. In doing so there is a consequential impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EAs my colleague and others have said, the Bail Act 2000, its history and its content, flowed from the loose arrangements that the Labour Government inherited in 1999. Serious measures were put in place. There was the provision to change the onus. Then came the addition of the words \u201Creal and significant\u201D, which were put in place in a revision of the Bail Act in 2007. They were intended to clarify the law, to promote a very solemn, common-sense thing called consistency in decision making in respect of the judiciary, and to respond to a number of judicial decisions, rather than to make any significant changes. That is why the amendment was made, and that last point is completely germane. As my colleague said and as Mr Garrett and other members have pointed out, the change that is now proposed to\u2014as clause 3 states\u2014the Bail Act 2000 in itself does little. That is what Mr Garrett said. When the Labour Government made that change it was attempting, as I have said, to provide some consistency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that others share Mr Garrett\u2019s view. Let us look at what Justice Heath said. He said that the change that Labour made to the Bail Act when we placed the words \u201Creal and significant\u201D in it \u201Cdoes not seem to me to put the test any higher than it was under the previous legislation, but rather to emphasise the need for a proper inference to be drawn from proven facts; as opposed to the Court engaging in speculation or guesswork about the possibility of risk.\u201D The purpose of the amendment that the Labour Government made to the principal Act was to avoid, as Justice Heath said, speculation or guesswork, and to provide guidance to the judiciary so that there was not speculation or guesswork. I am sure Mr Finlayson, a learned lawyer, would be able to talk to us in the Chamber for hours about his experience. I am sure he would share the view that we as a Parliament should provide our judicial officials with guidance so that there is, where possible, consistency of decisions, and to ensure that judges are not put in a situation where they have to speculate and have to guess what Parliament meant. That is why Labour, when in Government, placed those words in the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EToday clause 3 states that that Act, the Bail Act 2000, is to be amended again. As I said at the start of my contribution, certain actions and impacts will flow from that. What we have attempted to do\u2014the ACT Party, ourselves, and others\u2014is to analyse what the consequential impacts will be, once clause 3 has been dealt with and once the Royal assent has been given. We are told by the Minister in charge of the bill, Simon Power, and by members of his party\u2014we have been told all day\u2014that the impacts will be huge. I am sorry: we were originally told\u2014I should be more precise\u2014by the Minister in the chair and his colleagues that the impacts will be huge; that once this Act has been amended, once those three words have been removed, there will be no more murders, nirvana will appear, crime will end, and bail breaches will end. And it is not about, of course\u2014so he said\u2014the prison population. That was the original proposition that was put earlier in the day. Later on, after I think Mr Garrett, in addressing the actual impact of clause 3, noted that in itself this change will do little, it was incumbent upon the Minister to come clean. He then, I think in response to some very detailed, deep, and penetrating questions from my colleague Annette King, stated to the House that what this change, once the principal Act was amended, was really about was\u2014to quote him\u2014sending a message.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ESending a message to whom? Well, I think the message needs to be sent to the criminals, but I am assuming that the message that the Minister was attempting to send was to the general public. What he will be doing after the principal Act is amended, as stated in clause 3, is sending a message to the community that claims that the National Government, in its first 100 days, has been really tough on crime and has made a huge impact with this legislation. That is what his message, I suspect, will be as he pumps out the letters and the press releases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a66c5635a5e9476abb71bc49e93325c2\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd26851836f54582a8eb5af3aa21a145\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a66c5635a5e9476abb71bc49e93325c2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd26851836f54582a8eb5af3aa21a145\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022c50cb0b5110a49febd94bdde4ccb1265\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c50cb0b5110a49febd94bdde4ccb1265\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E As with my contribution to the commencement debate, I will refer to the costs of this amendment to the Bail Act 2000. I want to read briefly from the regulatory impact statement, which sets out what the costs will be once this amendment has been made: \u201CIf reversing the changes\u201D\u2014that is, making the amendment\u2014\u201Chas an equal and opposite effect, increasing the number of remand beds by 75, this will cost an estimated $7 million per year in additional operating expenditure and a total of $38 million in capital expenditure (the actual costs will depend on wider factors and other policies).\u201D Then it goes on to state: \u201CHowever, it is likely that the effect will be greater.\u201D The statement later goes on: \u201CIt is difficult to estimate the impact that reversing the 2007 changes\u201D\u2014so, making this amendment\u2014\u201Cwill have on the number of people remanded in custody, because the impact of the 2007 amendments is itself uncertain.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ESo we simply have no information at all as to whether the pre-2007 provisions of the Bail Act 2000 had an effect, and whether the changes in 2007 increased any risk to the community by having that apparently high threshold for bail applications. Since that original amendment was made in 2007, we have no information whatsoever as to whether those changes have increased the risk to the community by apparently lowering slightly the threshold for bail applications. And now this legislation is to amend the Act again, and there is no assessment, there is no evidence\u2014there is nothing\u2014that suggests that this amendment will make any changes or increase the risks to the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ESo we are passing an amendment with absolutely no concept at all, no information at all, about whether any changes will be made to anything, and in the process we are spending $45 million a year on a legislative change, despite the fact that we have no knowledge at all as to whether it will have any effect. That is nuts, and the public would be appalled, if they were listening to this debate, to discover that nearly $45 million per year will be spent on a minor and, arguably, very small technical change to the bail laws, with no evidence whatsoever\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c47982d38ff245079e5c00af868123d8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: To keep people safe!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a40a918d7be44cca17e08e2f3f7d19e\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I say to Dr Mapp, as to whether it will make the community safer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe issues around law and order, of course, are far more important than money. Of that there is no doubt. This is a Government that likes to pride itself on frugality\u2014at least, that is what it says\u2014and on being careful with the public\u2019s money. But at the same time, with the third piece of legislation it passes in its first week, it proposes to spend $45 million a year on provisions, even though it has no concept whatsoever as to whether they will be effective. That is $45 million a year down the drain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI am sure there are alternative amendments to the Bail Act that could be much more effective and cost a great deal less money. I do not know whether, in the past, discussions around amendments to the Bail Act, whether this one or previous ones, have really addressed the opportunities for alternatives\u2014not radical alternatives, but community alternatives where people who are put out on bail are given some support. In the UK people talk about bail hostels, for example, which are an alternative to prison and help people to deal with the issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022 data-id=\u00226b72b2ce29884d699b6196eb9deee4c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b72b2ce29884d699b6196eb9deee4c4\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I move that the question now be put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccd5b2f74f92424baf46bcbc8de90e1c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I will give Dr Cullen the call in a second, but can I refer those who are moving closure motions to Standing Order 132. It is spelt out there what the words are. It is very clear what actually has to be said for the Chair to accept a closure motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u00220ada4085fa6b4e4099f440bd7da2b2c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ada4085fa6b4e4099f440bd7da2b2c0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am prepared to run sessions on closure motions if Government MPs would like to have them. As you have rightly pointed out, Mr Chairman, clause 3, Principal Act amended\u201D, is a narrow clause and simply states: \u201CThis Act amends the Bail Act 2000.\u201D\u2014for those who might have had any doubt about what the bill is doing. Of course, that immediately raises the question of why we have a clause to amend the Bail Act 2000\u2014why do we have that bill at all in that form? Presumably there are a number of reasons why one has a clause that states: \u201CThis Act amends the Bail Act 2000.\u201D Presumably there was an assumption that something was wrong with the Bail Act 2000, in some way or another. That argument has not been made, so the primary reason for including this clause has not been given in this debate at all so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ENobody has been able to point to any significant issue with the current Bail Act that will be remedied by the amendment before the Committee. It is not a question of whether there have been difficulties with bail\u2014clearly there have been. Clearly, people on bail have committed serious offences. Does that necessarily point to problems with the law? Not necessarily so. Does it point to problems with judgments made by judges? One has always to be very careful about that. By the very nature of things, judges are being asked to make extraordinarily difficult decisions, and sometimes they will make mistakes in making those decisions. Nobody is going to not make a mistake. Anybody who has ever studied science or social sciences knows that there are two types of mistake: the mistake of rejecting a correct hypothesis, and the mistake of accepting a false hypothesis. In fact, life is a balance between those two, and nobody ever gets each of them 100 percent right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThere are two hypotheses here: should somebody who is a danger be kept inside, and should somebody who is not a danger be let out? Given the fact that there are those two hypotheses and the judge has to judge between them, that judge is going to make a mistake sometimes. The consequences of the judge making the error of letting out a dangerous person who then commits a murder are clearly much more serious, in almost every case, than the error of keeping somebody in jail who should not be there, and, indeed, who may subsequently be found to be innocent. Nevertheless, the right of the assumption of innocence must be there right from the beginning; otherwise, our system would make no sense at all\u2014we would simply change the whole nature of our justice system in that regard. So I do not think that case has been made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EIs there a case that judges are lacking sufficient guidance? On this issue very significant statements have been made by judges. They have gone carefully into the differences between what is actually in this bill, because it was the previous Act, and what is in the current Act. They have simply said, quite clearly, that what is now in the legislation provides clarification of what was previously there, but that this does not change the essential meaning of what was there. So there is no need to clarify the essential meaning; the judges have determined that they are clear about the essential meaning of what Parliament intends. I do not believe that anybody could make a case, as one can sometimes make cases\u2014and I have never argued this, either when I was Attorney-General or now, when I am not\u2014that judges do not sometimes interpret what Parliament means in a very strange way indeed, and require, perhaps, some correction in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ESo in that respect I think this clause should not be in this bill. Quite simply, because the bill does not need to be there, there is no need to amend the Bail Act. I am quite happy now to hand over to Hekia Parata, as I see her preparing herself with the Standing Orders in front of her. I think she is going to say: \u201CI move, That the question be now put.\u201D, and if she does, that is the correct wording.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022 data-id=\u00220efd527fca3d46008d355e53d879e535\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220efd527fca3d46008d355e53d879e535\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002261c56e852f0a40ee992ef0e690474760\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; M\u0101ori Party 3; Green Party 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002223814fab7592449faeedc97a184afe04\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 3; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u00223a578d2cf3a041ceb6212ae3024dbdbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a578d2cf3a041ceb6212ae3024dbdbe\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Musterer\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Having miscalculated how many votes the Green Party is entitled to overall, I seek leave to change the votes made this afternoon where they are recorded as \u201C2\u201D votes to \u201C3\u201D votes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022917ef9fe2bb949ca902fdff19d863f0f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The member needs to be more specific. Does this mean all votes cast since 2 o\u2019clock?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225e84e5016ad4285bcac6e0a62fb3e2d\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d54c005db7f41068ed2e2673e0c4c46\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There being no objection, we will correct that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022572a72d0f6ed486580ebd4c552a1c329\u0022\u003EClause 4  Consideration of just cause for continued detention\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b57018e538da41a6899574afb74ac1cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b57018e538da41a6899574afb74ac1cc\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is the final clause in the Bail Amendment Bill, and it amends section 8(1)(a) of the Bail Act by omitting the words \u201Creal and significant\u201D. This clause reverts the test to what it was before the 2007 amendment, which was that there would just be a risk, rather than a real and significant risk. So we go back to where we were. Somebody today said: \u201CWe go from 24 to 36 and back to 24.\u201D Virtually, we are returning to where we were before the 2007 amendment Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EOne of the arguments that Labour has put up continually today is that this is a very small change in terms of the arguments put forward by National members. Those members have argued that the change they are making today will make a real difference to the safety of the public of New Zealand. They argue that in making this change, by reverting to words that just state \u201Crisk\u201D rather than \u201Creal and significant\u201D risk, it will make a big difference to the safety of the community. That was said not just by one speaker but by many speakers from the Government benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EGovernment backbenchers, with the set of notes that had been prepared for them, continually said this bill will make the community safer. We even heard the learned scholar Dr Worth say that is right; it will make the community safer. The public of New Zealand listening to this debate would believe, from what the National members were saying, that when this legislation is passed and receives the Royal assent, the streets of New Zealand will be safer. The homes of New Zealand will be safer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EAs Melissa Lee said, we will not have to face the sort of dreadful murder that happened in a dairy in South Auckland. In fact, that is one of the examples she put up as a reason for this change to be made. This bill was played up as making a very significant change, indeed, by the backbench members of the National Government. On the campaign trail that is what National members were saying, but during this debate it has become clear that this is not a major change\u2014in fact, it is window dressing. The test reverts back to \u201Crisk\u201D rather than \u201Creal and significant risk\u201D. The bill is window dressing, indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EWhat this will do, as has been pointed out by the Minister himself, is send a message. When this bill is passed, it will not make the streets of New Zealand safer. It will send a message. That does not sound to me like the rhetoric of the campaign trail. That does not sound to me like the promises made to New Zealanders during the campaign. It does not sound to me like the sort of action one needs to take in the first 100 days that one is in power, nor the sort of action that one needs to take under urgency on Friday night at 10 to 6. We and the coalition partners of the National Government know that this is a very small change indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EAs has been pointed out, and as the Minister knows, the change was never made to put fewer people in prison, unlike what was said by National candidates when they were on the campaign stumps. In fact, the \u201Creal and significant\u201D threshold was chosen by examining judicial decisions on the previous risk threshold. It was decided by looking at judicial decisions, especially the Court of Appeal 2002 decision in R v Hines. The Court of Appeal stated in that case that to amount to a just cause to continue detention, the risk should be \u201Cmore than nebulous and insignificant and should be a real and significant risk.\u201D That was the basis for the advice the previous Labour-led Government received from the Ministry of Justice. That is the advice we received in making the changes that we did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00226f8c1a2b4df14b4c94185bb9efa98623\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f8c1a2b4df14b4c94185bb9efa98623\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I know where Mrs King was heading to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ea2aab498404ad29b9c54387f13d975\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Carry on from there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283b00f5148a341069aee3f080307117b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so I will carry on from there. I touch on the point that as we have gone through this debate to this very significant point, Mrs King was alluding to the fact that even the Minister in the chair had to admit that this bill was about sending a message, not in essence about public safety. Mrs King also made the point just now that this did not sound like the pre-election promises that were made by the National Party. I just want to check that. She is right. In National\u2019s policy document I have here, its first principle is \u201CTough on crime\u201D. As I said before, Mr Garrett, who is a learned lawyer and who has advised the Sensible Sentencing Trust for many years, has said this will change little. The question is what, then, did the Minister say? He said: \u201CWell, I have said this will send a message.\u201D But for whom is the message, and about what? I do not want to interrupt the Minister\u2019s conversation, because I am sure he wants to listen to the debate that is happening, but I suspect that the message the Minister wants to send is that he and his party have done something heavy-duty and gritty today\u2014something very significant to make the people of New Zealand safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWell, they have not. The evidence that we have produced\u2014because the Minister will not produce any evidence himself\u2014is ironically via Mr Garrett, who agrees with me. He has used the words \u201CIt changes little.\u201D By the Minister\u2019s own admission, all it really does is send a sort of propaganda message\u2014to whom, and about what, we do not know. If we look at the technicalities of this bill, we see that we have gone from reverting back to the pre-2007 amendment, where we had \u201Creal and significant risk\u201D, which was based, as my colleague has said, on the R v Hines decision, to now taking out three words to go back to simply \u201Crisk\u201D. This is based, of course, on the R v Hines quote\u2014and I am sure the quote is by this stage etched in Mr Power\u2019s memory\u2014\u201Cmore than nebulous and insignificant and should be a real and significant risk\u201D. So we have now just gone back to what was, based on R v Hines. In that case, \u201Creal and significant risk\u201D were the words the judge used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E I say to the Minister that this is an absolutely prima facie case\u2014beyond that, actually\u2014of a hoax on the New Zealand people. This is smoke and mirrors, this is flim and flam, and this is political propaganda and puffery. I assume that the message the Minister is trying to send will try to persuade the New Zealand people that this legislation will keep them safer. Well, it will not; it does nothing. From listening to Melissa Lee and others\u2014as my colleague points out quite rightly\u2014we would almost think that the day after this bill is given the Royal assent, white doves will be released from Government House or somewhere, olives will appear on trees, and branches will be handed out because peace will break out in New Zealand and no crimes will ever be committed again. That is the way this bill has been packaged by Ms Lee and others. Well, there is a word for that, but it would be grossly inappropriate to use that term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis is propaganda. I think even now that New Zealand people will see through it. From the day after the Royal assent is given, when the first bail breach occurs or when the next crime occurs, we will be able to revisit this debate by asking the Minister some interesting questions, and by quoting from Ms Lee\u2019s speech, and from those of all her other colleagues over there who have said that nirvana will break out the day after this bill is given the Royal assent. This Minister\u2014members know it, I know it, and Mr Garrett has said it\u2014will do nothing. This is a piece of political propaganda, an attempt to talk tough, look tough, and sound tough, Clint Eastwood - like. Before the election National members wandered around the country, stamping their little feet\u2014as every National Party candidate also did\u2014and saying they would get tough, but the first piece of legislation that has been brought into the House does nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EYet again I ask the Minister whether he will trigger the parole provisions. We have not been provided with an answer even though he has been diligent and provided us with, I think, three answers in one call to 50 or 60 questions that had been put to him; he is going for what we now call the \u201CWilkinson record of silence\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c50ce0e46a8049ac9f1ac61cb26bedf8\u0022 data-id=\u00223a0bbff731cd43508cfa750dea173752\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c50ce0e46a8049ac9f1ac61cb26bedf8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a0bbff731cd43508cfa750dea173752\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National\u2014West Coast-Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u002222474d0b2dd7468cac025eda5bf83d9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222474d0b2dd7468cac025eda5bf83d9a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the question be now put. Those who\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00229fb5aa0fae0d406b821930c49461ade6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fb5aa0fae0d406b821930c49461ade6\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Without in any way wishing to challenge your ruling\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a15028d1b4ff448880855d0c5c2d34c3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, you cannot challenge my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222674311a99b7418fa6f651ac9544fad9\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am not; I am not challenging it. As a point of information for you, I say that we on this side of the Chamber strongly object, because there have been only two calls from this side. There are only four clauses in this bill, and there has been substantial debate on each of the first three of those clauses. Now we have come to the critical one, and there have been only two calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a9b4f83a754f2f82b1b07ba40bab0a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: You are challenging the ruling. It is at my discretion that a closure motion is accepted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ab22ce6c35564df48f77bf98e104ea7b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 3; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228184322a99004930a2fdac441bbeaae7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 3; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000763\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000764\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000765\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022026672ab790e434d93e566b74737b14e\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u00229af5c4c671f148bf8957079385e4bf58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229af5c4c671f148bf8957079385e4bf58\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Bail Amendment Bill be now read a third time. This Government was elected on a law and order policy that promised to put the safety of the public first. This bill is one of the steps in making that promise a reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003ELabour Party members knew they could not afford to vote against this bill, particularly because their leader has admitted publicly that Labour was beaten in the law and order debate during the election campaign. That left those members with no choice, in effect, because had they decided to oppose this bill, it would have immediately laid the platform in this subject area for the next general election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EIn respect of this bill, all too often we hear about serious offences being committed by people on bail. That does not mean, of course, that bail is a failure or that it should be abandoned. There are thousands of people on bail at any one time, and only a small proportion commit serious offences. But what it does mean is that we must be vigilant about who is released on bail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003ELast year, as part of a package in the Criminal Justice Reform Bill to reduce the prison population, the Labour Government restricted the courts\u2019 ability to remand in custody people charged with criminal offending. Under those changes, defendants could be remanded in custody only if the court considered they posed a real and significant threat of absconding, interfering with witnesses or evidence, or offending whilst on bail. In addition, the courts were restricted in the way that they could take breach of bail conditions into account in bail decisions. In a change, the Labour Government inserted a provision that provided that the courts could take a breach of conditions into account only to the extent that it was relevant to the defendant\u2019s risk. In effect, that meant the courts could no longer use remand as a sanction for non-compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThis Government recognises that the court is in the best position to determine a defendant\u2019s risk and whether he or she should be bailed or remanded in custody. We will not let the courts be unduly constrained in those decisions. This bill restores the courts\u2019 discretion to decide when a defendant\u2019s risk is such that he or she should be remanded in custody, and to take appropriate action when a defendant is not complying with bail conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EDespite the lengthy debate that the House has had on this bill\u2014and, in fact, the lead Opposition party ultimately voted with the Government, after we had tried to pry that position out of it after its third speaker took to her feet\u2014it is one of the shortest bills that the House will see. It has one operative clause of two lines. However, those two lines are indicative of a new focus for New Zealand\u2019s criminal justice system\u2014one that puts public safety first. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00220a3738aec4df4e94bb752132d494015a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a3738aec4df4e94bb752132d494015a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Before I begin my third reading speech I would be interested to know whether the Minister of Justice, who has just resumed his seat, has the evidence he referred to for some of the claims he made about the weakness of bail from the prosecution service, the Police Association, and the Law Society. I noted that he had evidence, and I would be grateful if he would lay that evidence on the Table or seek leave to table it. There has been no tabling of any evidence, and I am told that he turned to my colleague Annette King and said that he has never tabled media clippings\u2014his evidence\u2014in his life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis has been a very interesting debate, for a whole series of reasons. One reason that is relevant, I suppose, to the shambolic way in which the Government has conducted itself in the last 24 hours, but not specifically connected to the bill, is the fact that the senior Opposition whip counted 12 times that the geniuses opposite tried to take a closure motion. It eventuated that Tony Ryall, the Minister of Health, who I think did a stunning job, was hauled out of his ministerial office. I am told that he cancelled all his appointments. He was asked to come to the Chamber to move the closure motion. He looked quite distraught, because I know he is a well-mannered person who does not like to be rude to people he is supposed to be meeting. He cancelled all his appointments so he could come to the Chamber and move a closure motion. That is how organised these geniuses on that side of the Chamber are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis has been an interesting debate. It is a pity, I have to say, that in the final clause 4 debate the Opposition was cut down like a stump and could take only two calls, given that the bill has been rammed through and has had no select committee scrutiny at all. We were cut down like a stump, and allowed to take only two calls, but that is the prerogative of the Chair and we should not challenge it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIt has been an interesting debate. We will remember, of course, the nature of how it occurred. I am sure all those who were party to it in the Chamber and outside will be listening to that. This debate was interesting because a number of new National Party members told us unequivocally that once this bill is enacted there will be no bail breaches, there will be no crime. Melissa Lee\u2019s speech is etched on my brain. She said that there will be no bail breaches, and there will be no crime. Doves will be released around New Zealand because crime, as a proposition and problem, will disappear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWhat we heard throughout this debate was political puffery and propaganda. The National Party came to this House with a policy that says, as its first principle \u201Ctough on crime\u201D. What was National\u2019s first bill in the House? Its first bill in the House was one to try to persuade the New Zealand people, by taking away the words \u201Creal and significant\u201D from the risk proposition in the bail legislation, that that would have a massive impact and everybody would be safer. Before the member says it, the reason we did not oppose it was that it does absolutely nothing. It does not change the status quo. That Minister made a vain attempt. He is not a bad bloke, old Simon Power\u2014\u201CSimple Simon\u201D. He is not a bad guy, and he did give it his all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284482350c4fc49f5adc29e7418f48ce5\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have been called a lot of things in my life, and I am pretty relaxed about that, but in this House I would prefer to be called Simon Power or something similar. I am happy to have the reference used by the member opposite levelled at me anywhere else, but I think this place deserves the respect of all members in an appropriate way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022438b7667b3c44a619ae62dfbde9c4dab\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister has taken exception; the member will withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286702f93c54f411ea010a2f45a1cf266\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw. The Hon Simon Power, who is a complex member, not a simple member, made a very, very good attempt to try to sell this as the big ground-breaking hit for the National Party on law and order. He said that this would make a change, and that after tonight all people in New Zealand would feel safer in and out of their homes. Then, as we moved through this debate, the fabric started to fray, in legislative terms. Mr Garrett made a stunning intervention. He is a member of the Sensible Sentencing Trust, a lawyer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022346f839537d447ed94a4611a9069eb36\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Their man in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226e378ddaff544adb733db79b9c50653\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, their man in Parliament, maybe. He is a lawyer and a person who advised them on this bill. He said: \u201CIn itself this\u201D\u2014the bill\u2014\u201Cwill do little.\u201D Then it started to unravel. The Minister, late in the day, hours after being asked questions that he would not answer\u2014questions like why he would not do something substantive, something real that would make people secure, like ring the Governor-General and get him to sign the Order in Council to trigger a two-thirds minimum parole\u2014then said what the real intent of this bill was. It is to send a message. That is code for propaganda. That is code to go out to the people and say: \u201CWe\u2019ve been tough on crime and this is what we\u2019ve done.\u201D I have to say that the people will see through this, because this bill changes very little. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWe heard Justice Heath\u2019s comments. As I said in the first reading, this bill is built on two malicious and false propositions\u2014firstly, that bail is weakened, and, secondly, that this was done to somehow decrease the prison population. Well, I remind that member that the remand prisoner population has continued to grow at a rate greater than the sentence population, despite the 2007 amendment to the Bail Act. In July 2007 remands, including prisoners held in police stations, totalled 1,733 and comprised 21 percent of the total prison muster. By July 2008 remands had increased by almost 6 percent and constituted 23 percent of the total prison muster. We have advice from the Ministry of Justice that says that by September next year the change we put in place would result in a decrease of about 10 beds, and then go down to 40.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab22be26331a4b228e08c187142c0259\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: 40 by 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7df00b4b7b1429d9c619453a0cc6cf1\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: That would be the impact. His own leader said at the post-Cabinet press conference that this would have an impact of about 75 beds in a muster of around 15,000. This is absolute bunkum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d0a62f7054744c483292e43f7d97e5c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdc7dcd87ead468f9789bdfcb21456a0\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Over a year, of course; has the member not read his own briefing papers? This is about trying to act tough, talk tough, and be the Clint Eastwood of the National Party, which was Simon Power before the election. Then the first thing he does is nothing by taking three words out of legislation that relies on the Queen v Hines decision, which uses the words \u201Creal and significant risk\u201D. So basically we have gone back to the status quo of risk, and there is no change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EEven Mr Garrett, a lawyer, said there is very little change, if any at all\u2014a complete waste of this Parliament\u2019s time. That member and other members will ask why we stood up and made speeches, and why we debated it for hours. Well, I tell members that it is our job to do so, and it is our job to show up this crew. We said we would not vote against it, because it changes nothing, but we have debated it and we have highlighted what these members have said. It is our job to hold them to account. They are in utter disarray and are disorganised\u2014we can see that. I think Mr Brownlee has been taken off to the sideline to limber up for tomorrow or next week or whatever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ac9c0ca9e3d450b87ada1808f390609\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t seen him much today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022023d21a423ef4dc5a16a961ec9dbac5b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I could not comment on that; that would not be appropriate. He is probably doing his callisthenics or whatever. But Simon Power was in charge and the Chamber just came apart. I say to the Minister of Justice that people are not stupid. The day after this is signed, when we have bail breaches and we have people who commit offences whilst on bail, when we have people who are released on bail\u2014when, perhaps, in our view they should not be\u2014then we will, with great delight, revisit the Minister\u2019s speech, Melissa Lee\u2019s speech, and all the speeches that were put up. The member for Tauranga, whose name is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225656cb6621bb4909b34cc62199317a62\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Simon Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d649434ea9da427b886f0c537f640990\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: He was, I believe, a Crown prosecutor. Is that correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdfb9abfcec947f4810daf0efbbf2540\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He told us he knew all about the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225937f14b8db642ca8f5dd64d99396c4d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: He told us he knew all about the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0cc8c8379de4da2aa5f4fa9095adf5c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: He got all the criminals off from the prosecution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221b312099d04478ea6dc9efa99c7ce7e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would not go as far as that, but who knows? He is a Crown prosecutor who told us he knew all about the law. He could not move a closure motion, though. That is how good he is. I do not know what sorts of arguments he has made on behalf of the Crown and in defence of the Crown in the Tauranga District Court or the High Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI do not think the people of New Zealand have been well served by this Government today. This bill is small in stature and small on substance. This is a political pamphlet. This is Simon Power\u2019s first big hit as the big tough Minister of Justice. It is a one-pager with a few pages of an explanatory note on the front. He is a show pony. He has had 9 years work\u20143 years as spokesperson on law and order\u2014and this is what he has come up with. I do not object to the length of the bill; I object to its lack of substance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWhat our changes in Government were designed to do were to create some uniformity and some certainty. That is our job as parliamentarians. It is the judiciary\u2019s job to interpret the law. This bill does nothing. This bill has no logic to it. This bill is propaganda\u2014it is a political pamphlet. It is a pamphlet that tries to say National is tough on crime\u2014well, the veil has dropped on that one. National is loose and weak on crime, and I invite the Minister, or his next delegated speakers, to tell us when they will do something substantive and activate the two-thirds parole bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022 data-id=\u00224dc50e0f61de404abb66c42efb25ff5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dc50e0f61de404abb66c42efb25ff5d\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E It is always a privilege to follow the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, because he is the ultimate exemplar of nonsense and foolishness. National is committed to effective law and order policies. We do that against the background of increasing levels of violent crime in New Zealand. These issues are not easily brushed aside, and a number of Government members have spoken about particular examples where, sadly for the community in the context of bail decisions, things have gone badly wrong\u2014badly wrong for victims, badly wrong for families, and, I would say, badly wrong for society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EIt was very interesting that when this debate first started, Labour was equivocal about what its position was on this legislation. As events unfolded, it became absolutely clear that Labour actually supports this change. I was interested in what Mr Cosgrove said when he spoke about how he saw the job of the Opposition. He said to us\u2014and this will be recorded in Hansard\u2014that it is \u201Cour job to fight it for hours\u201D. I would say that that is simply not the task of an Opposition that actually favours the legislation that is before this House. It is right to say, in the context of parliamentary time, that we have seen substantial time wasted in speeches that are often characterised by misunderstanding and repetition. I think that is a tragedy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EI would like, for a moment, to come back to what the purpose of this legislation is. Like it or not, for the Government, the gains that will flow from this legislation are significant. Like it or not for the Opposition, bail will be harder to get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f314bbdaca94c0c8c42caa4ee1a921a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Say that again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c85c45c9669b4b63aaf89b81ba9989a1\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: Bail will be harder to get. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EI would like to talk about just two aspects of this bill, and I reflect with interest that comments have been made by Opposition members that this is a short bill. It may be a short bill, but it will have significant impact. Why will it have that impact? There are two reasons for that. It will produce an outcome whereby bail will be harder to get, with the consequence that there will be additional protections for the community in respect of those who offend in the community whilst on bail. We know the statistics; they are referred to in the explanatory note of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EThe other aspect that I think is quite significant is that the bill will deal with a circumstance whereby a large number of defendants fail to appear in court. [Interruption] The consequences of that, as Mr Cosgrove should know from his previous experience, are huge delays and congestion in the system. The numbers of those defendants who fail to appear in court when called are actually quite significant. Convictions for breach of bail\u2014failing to appear\u2014increased by 76 percent between 1997 and 2006, and it will be an outcome of the legislation that those denied bail, of course, will be there on the appointed day to meet their desserts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EThe reality is that delays in the court system are a hugely significant factor. Many will know that justice delayed is justice denied, and the injustice that is done is an injustice to the victims, to the system\u2014in terms of congestion\u2014and, in some respects, to those who are facing trial and have the consequence of having to wait and wait for their day in court for the opportunity of either vindicating themselves or being found guilty of the offences with which they are charged. So we have been treated to a time-wasting exercise. Maybe the Opposition justifies it in the context of seeking to show its mettle. Has it done that? Not at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u00225133826fc7644c5d90011d1804d29dec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225133826fc7644c5d90011d1804d29dec\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That was very interesting. Dr Richard Worth made a speech there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212a86125afa64e198f7234663732aa38\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CSir\u201D Richard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da6b87b709e640219e13ad720ab2822e\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CSir\u201D Dr Richard Worth OBE made a speech that was about three times longer than that of the Minister in charge of the Bail Amendment Bill. I think he is trying to prove his mettle. That was a front-bench bid from the member up at the back of the Chamber there. Now the Minister in charge of the bill assures me it is simply a matter of words per minute, and he just speaks faster than \u201CSir\u201D Dr Richard Worth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWe have been giving the Minister a bit of stick about the lack of substance in this bill. The only thing in the House tonight that has had less substance than this bill was that speech from \u201CSir\u201D Dr Richard Worth\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210be62e687b141c0b6f3de2239fffb02\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: OBE!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b47d230e34e6465eaa8604cd9d945404\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014OBE, pardon me. I say to the member who has just resumed his seat that I am happy to stand here and just respond to his interjections if that is what he wants, but if the member is complaining about the level of scrutiny that this Opposition shows towards legislation in the House, then maybe he should have sent this bill to a select committee. If this Government continues to do what it has done under urgency, which is to ram bills through that do not need to be passed urgently\u2014there is no rush to get this bill through\u2014and if it wants to do that by denying the people of New Zealand the right to have bills properly put before a select committee and for the people of New Zealand to come and speak at the select committee to bills, and if it is going to table bills in the House at 15 minutes to midnight on the night before they are being discussed, then the Government can expect that we will provide the scrutiny in this House that has been denied to the people of New Zealand. The power is in the hands of the Government in that respect, because if it follows due process and allows bills to be properly scrutinised, then the process through the House will be quicker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EIt is nice to have finally made it to the third reading of this bill. I thought we would never get a closure motion passed to close the last debate on the final part of the bill. It is nice to finally be here, and I acknowledge the stamina of the Minister who was in the chair, the Hon Simon Power, during the Committee stage of this bill. I saw his head drop to his hands every time another closure motion was denied, and we are happy to be here with the Minister to debate this third reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EIn the Speech from the Throne and during the election campaign, we were promised 100 days of action. It is clear that the only reason we are here in urgency, passing bills that do not need to be passed, and with no public scrutiny and no respect for process, is that if we were not doing that, the National members would have nothing to do in this House. Their 100 days of action would be shown up as the farce that it is. We have seen here tonight the very first law and order bill. During the campaign National told us it would get tough on crime. That was one of its primary campaign planks. So what is the first legislation from this \u201Ctough on crime\u201D law and order National Government that we see in this House? It is a bill that does practically nothing, that will not make a single person safer, and that largely maintains the status quo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022846cef3375a646dfadb0633eb7585a70\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: There is nothing about parole, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264505bfdd4d74fca96696aae84479896\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is right. And we say again to the Minister that if he is serious about being tough on crime, he should pick up the phone. I am sure that he can call the Governor-General at home. It is a bit late, but I am sure he would take the call\u2014[Interruption] OK, maybe he would not. But, to be fair, we did raise this issue during work hours, when the Minister could have picked up the phone and said to the Governor-General that a bill had been passed by the former Government about parole\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a8d63667e7d414fa328ca17521f8b22\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Two-thirds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf2e15972b064beb95746412df2873b0\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the two-thirds of a sentence minimum parole provisions\u2014and the Minister could have picked up the phone. He could have done that while he was in the chair; he could have sent a text message. He would have shown himself to be tough on crime in the first 100 days, right there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022927412aad0de4979840020ff45360c8e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There has already been comment about drawing the Governor-General into these debates. I think it was you who gave an earlier ruling on that. It is completely inappropriate; it is outlawed by the Standing Orders. Why does the member persist in trifling with us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd1d87ceb92444949c253fe0fd149cfd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: The Governor-General is not being brought into the debate by the member saying that the Minister has the power to get an Order in Council, which, of course, involves the Governor-General in the process of issuing it. That does not presume any views that the Governor-General may have about the merits of that Order in Council. It is simply a process issue that is being discussed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d385e4f294242b6828e124a0cdca930\u0022\u003EHon Dr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: That is a completely inaccurate representation of what the member was saying. The member was offering a proposition that the Minister should call the Governor-General and somehow seek to influence him in favour of, or against, this bill. That is completely wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d032f61005643a9b0f819c96af7e79a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: The member was not saying that at all. She was speaking slightly loosely about the process involved in issuing an Order in Council. The fact is the Minister recommends to the Governor-General. That is the exact form. Probably the Minister who has just spoken has not actually had one yet. Sooner or later, he will have one\u2014no doubt by 2010 or so. If the Minister recommends an Order in Council be issued, the Governor-General agrees to that and does so. Surprisingly enough, since 1707 it has been the normal behaviour of the Sovereign to agree to what is recommended by Parliament or the executive, and that is done. That does not mean that the Governor-General is brought into the debate. When referring to the process of issuing an Order in Council, the member is quite correct. One could be issued to bring in the provisions for parole after serving two-thirds of a sentence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e0cca7e246a4a83ae8351c7413bee50\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, Standing Order 114 rules against disrespectful references to the Governor-General being made in debate. I also spoke earlier about trying to speculate on what the Governor-General\u2019s attitudes might be. Again, that is not in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220965367d50204c9da03293779dc0130b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. During the point of order that was being made by my colleague, the Hon Dr \u201CSir\u201D Richard Worth OBE, MP interjected on my colleague. I think that is a very unhelpful way to perform and behave in the House this evening, and you might want to call him to order in respect of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b386674f8e734482a0926ce9bd33d9d2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I did note that there was a brief interjection. I was about to object to it, but I let it slide in the hope that we could get to the end of these points of order, and we could then address the issue that is before us: the Bail Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa73b1853ea4407b87506ed9ede5ecea\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member for raising that point. I think it was a very good use of time for us to learn about the origin of that particular point of order. I thank the member, the Hon Dr \u201CSir\u201D Richard Worth OBE, for raising that. I believe it was a good use of the House\u2019s time to learn about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EAs I was saying, during the election campaign the people of New Zealand and the then Labour Government were subjected to constant cries of how National would get tough on crime. As I said, we waited with bated breath to see the first law and order bill introduced into this House in the 100 days of turbocharged action of this new National Government, because this is the bill that essentially sets the law and order tone of this National Government for the next 3 years. This is the bill upon which it launched its \u201Ctough on crime\u201D platform. What does it do? It largely maintains the status quo, as the Minister has admitted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWe will not vote against something that maintains the status quo that we put in place\u2014that would be ridiculous. But I say to members that the rhetoric we heard on the campaign trail is not matched by the reality of this legislation, because not one New Zealander will be safer as a result of this legislation passing into law. We on this side of the House feel that it is our role as the Opposition to hold the Government to account for the promises it made to the electorate during the election campaign. Paula Bennett thinks she should not have to live up to the promises she made. In fact, Paula Bennett made a speech in the House on the previous bill that was so full of clich\u00E9s that it showed only that she must be related to David Bennett, because their speeches were pretty much exactly the same. Either that or David Bennett gave her\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9a868359c544afba90ca1c499361c5f\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: That is a terrible thing to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226993f938a2c24128af0ab2ad1b6ce8e5\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EBut we must look at the context within which this bill came in. Of course, it was the Labour Government that strengthened and toughened our bail laws. It was also the Labour Government that strengthened and toughened our Parole Act and our Sentencing Act. We acknowledged that the sentence needs to fit the crime, and that often the victims of crime did feel that they were not treated well in the justice system. In the 9 years of the National Government, for example, someone could get a sentence of preventive detention only on the second offence. It was as though the first one was free. It would have been bad enough to get preventive detention if it had been for the second offence, but people got it only if they had been convicted twice. So one of the first things Labour did was to make sure that the sentence of preventive detention was available on the first sentence, so that if that was appropriate it could be applied then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003ESo we had a National Government for 9 years that did nothing but talk big. It was loud in Opposition, but it was quiet in Government. Then we had a Labour Government for 9 years that strengthened the bail laws, the Parole Act, and sentencing laws, and that brought in the Victims\u2019 Rights Act and strengthened victims\u2019 rights. And now we have moved again to a National Government that has promised us it will be tough on crime. What evidence do we get of that? What is the first legislation we get? It is a bill that will not help any more people to avoid becoming victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9797675110401182623521ee430366\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b25ddb84fcc47e99e505dcab741975b\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: According to that member yes, it will. That will be interesting to see. I would like to know from the member\u2014and I am sure she can take a call in this debate\u2014how much money her Government has budgeted for this bill, if it will result in a lot more people being held on remand. Does she know that? No, I did not think so. I suspect that she may want to read a little more about this bill before she interjects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EAs I said in my previous speech, this bill and this Government never speak about the things we need to do in order to make sure that young people who are on the path to crime get off that path. The former Labour-led Government put much resourcing into ensuring that our most vulnerable families were not living in poverty. We lifted 130,000 children out of poverty. Yesterday we saw a taxation bill that kicks those families in the guts again and raises taxes on some of our most vulnerable families, in order to pour money into the pockets of the chief executive of Telecom. How will that solve crime down the road? We saw a 90-day bill that will see people lose their jobs, having been fired for absolutely no reason at a time when we should be protecting those people. Where will the children who are growing up in those households be in 15 or 16 years\u2019 time, as this new National Government reverts to form and plunges them back into poverty? I will tell members where they will be. They will be there with another National Government saying that a bill like this one will solve crime, whilst doing nothing to address the actual causes of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022973db97432c449f7862e69769a5b2792\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022973db97432c449f7862e69769a5b2792\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E In my contributions during the Committee stage of the debate, one of the things I was interested in was the cost of the policy given the complete lack of information about its necessity and its effect. We have no information at all about whether the bill is needed, or the impact it will have, because the bill did not go through the select committee process. We have not had reports from officials and we have not had assessments from those at the coalface doing this work\u2014those from the courts, those involved with prisoner rehabilitation, those involved with victims\u2019 rights organisations, those involved with the police, corrections, or with remand. No one who actually has to do the work that this bill will require, and no one who will be affected, whether it be the prisoners or the victims, by this bill has had a chance to have any kind of say, or make any analysis of the bill. That means we are passing legislation with a huge lacuna of information, and that makes us highly irresponsible. The passage of this bill is fiscally and legislatively irresponsible and a disgrace. I am sure taxpayers around the country will be horrified to discover that this legislation will cost about $45 million a year to implement, with no information, no oversight, and no scrutiny. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe cost of this legislation is very interesting, because it does beg the question of where the Minister and the ministry expect to get the money from. Earlier on, the Prime Minister said very clearly that there would be no money for Ministers to spend. Where is the $45 million going to come from? It will have to come from somewhere within the ministry. That is what the Prime Minister has said that Ministers have to do. What else might that money be used for, or where else might it be coming from? What we do know, of course, is that the most effective means of preventing reoffending is keeping people out of jail and providing them with rehabilitation services when they are in jail; and afterwards, when they are out in the community, community support and community transition from other kinds of sentences back out into the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThose services are run by community organisations\u2014by churches; by organisations and programmes like the Sycamore Tree Programme, for example, which does an exceptional job; by restorative justice organisations; and by the Prisoners Aid and Rehabilitation Society, which is a fantastic organisation of people directly impacted. This community sector is absolutely desperate for funds to run the programmes for prisoners and their families, for offenders and their families, for offenders and victims, to make sure that offenders do not reoffend, and they are, by and large, very effective programmes. These are the community programmes that work. These are the community programmes that keep our communities safe, because they deal with the actual issues that lead to reoffending, such as drug and alcohol addiction, and systemic lifelong physical, psychological, and sexual abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThese community programmes provide education and find means for prisoners and their families\u2014offenders and their families\u2014to re-educate themselves so that they have skills that they can take out to the workforce. Support for offenders trying to get work, support for victims to deal with the impacts of the crimes on their lives and to confront either their own offenders through a restorative justice programme or other offenders to understand what is going on, is provided through programmes like the Sycamore Tree. They are desperate for funds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWhere might the money to pay for this $45 million useless project come from? It may well come from the Ministry of Justice support that goes to those programmes. Why would that be? It is because this Government completely fails, utterly and dismally, to understand that to work, to protect our communities, to keep them safer, we need to stop reoffending. That is where the resources need to go. This bail legislation will make no difference whatsoever to the safety of our communities. The National Government and the Minister need to take responsibility for that failure should there be any reoccurrence of the kinds of cases and the kinds of issues that have been described during the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe other question it raises for me is that if there is going to have to be an increase in remand beds, then this policy begins to lay the groundwork for the privatisation of prisons and private sector engagement in the building and management of our prisons. We have had this fight in this Chamber before. My colleague Nandor Tanczos led the charge to oppose the privatisation of prisons, and we were very pleased when Labour Government legislation was put forward that would prevent the privatisation of prisons. I was involved with Nandor Tanczos: we visited prisons to talk about remand issues. I went to Auckland Remand Prison, a privately owned prison at the time. It was a lovely prison, if there is such a thing. It was very flash. It had fabulous services and all these wonderful things. It was obviously a loss leader. There is absolutely no way that Australasian Correctional Management could possibly have provided those kinds of services for the money it was getting contracted to do it for. It was clearly a flagship institution to try to encourage people to think that private prisons were fantastic so that they could get more contracts and run the miserable, violent, terrible prisons that they are known for running around the world in Australia, South America, and other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThese companies that run private prisons are known not only for the abuse that goes on within the prisons between inmates, but also for the abuse between inmates and corrections staff, and the abuse of staff by the institutions themselves. Their services are dismal; the rehabilitation is ridiculous and non-existent. These private prisons have an international record of the most appalling impacts and results. Yet at the time, there was a huge outcry from the National Party about the elimination of private prisons, because its whole ideology is around the increase in privatisation of public services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ENot only are we concerned about the privatisation of prisons, but also we are concerned about the practical implementation of having private companies making a profit off the imprisoning of our own people\u2014and particularly the imprisonment of M\u0101ori, for whom those rates are very high. The principle is that it is the role of the State to engage in that level of punishment, and the role of the State to be part of that justice and legal process. For the community to then contract out those responsibilities to the private sector is a wholesale relegation of that social contact between the State and the community. So in principle it is absolutely appalling, and in practice it causes huge discrimination, huge abuse of offenders and, actually, of the staff, as is known. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ETowards the end of my first reading speech I talked about the social impacts of legislation, and about the comment that Simon Power had made that corrections policy is failed social policy. I reiterate that again, because I think that was a very wise statement, and it is absolutely true. Like Moana Mackey, I too am terribly concerned about the social policy that the National Government is putting through in urgency. That includes the tax cuts for some, with tax increases for the poor in order to pad out the wallets of the wealthy; the 90-day, fire-at-will legislation, which will mean that young people and vulnerable workers, in particular, will have a great deal of difficulty getting and keeping employment; and also the coming education legislation, which the House will soon be debating. This not only contains an increase in truancy fines for the most vulnerable and poorest families, who could not afford to pay the existing fines and certainly will not be able to afford to pay the $3,000 worth of fines, but also the move to league tables for primary schools, which is a move towards the privatisation of the education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThis bail legislation, like the other legislation that is going through under urgency, signals the Government\u2019s absolutely clear path towards the privatisation of public assets and public services. It is a disgrace. It will cause greater reoffending, it will cause communities to be less safe than they would otherwise have been, and it is a dismal, disgraceful waste of taxpayers\u2019 money. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4ef770cf3a04f67a649ef8e1faa047e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4ef770cf3a04f67a649ef8e1faa047e\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I have been listening with interest to the comments from the Labour Opposition this afternoon. I have a number of comments in response to the issues they have raised, but before I make them I need to turn my initial comments to the Green Party member Metiria Turei. I think the House has just been subject to a huge amount of rubbish. The honourable member talked about the social contract. Well, I say that the social contract Parliament and the Government of this country has with the people of New Zealand is to keep them safe. The member talked about the former private remand prison at Mount Eden. I ask the member how many escapes were made from that prison. She talked on the one hand about the superb services, the good quality of the prison, and the way the inmates were treated, and then she turned around and tried to draw a comparison with prisons in South America. The social contract that the Government of this country has with the people of New Zealand is to keep them safe and to protect them from crime. I see Mr Cullen is looking. I do not believe that the members on that side of the House have actually understood why they lost this election, but one of the key issues was law and order. One of the key issues in the election was law and order, and the fact that the people of New Zealand want to be kept safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EBut before I go back to that issue again, I will comment also on Metiria Turei\u2019s comments on the tax bill. The tax bill that has just been passed under urgency makes a significant reduction in the top marginal tax rate. I have said that it is not enough, but it is the start\u2014it is the start of a tax system that will reward people who want to work hard, get on, have a higher income, provide for their families, and provide a higher standard of living. It will stop the great exodus of people going from this country to Australia. Similarly, the changes to the employment legislation are all designed to encourage employers to take on staff, with the confidence that they can do so, and to create wealth and improve the productivity of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003ELet me come back to you, Mr Cosgrove; let me come back to you. As I say, I do not think that you have understood\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285a7a42c17dc432d91e2535ee69f97f9\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I wouldn\u2019t get that close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c26cba03f08f42e4ac9f70fb59ad915f\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: You would not get that close? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4568948b92141f2bf49d81f59496bad\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: To you? Hell, no!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce4eb68a2274dfbb05db21ee789ef94\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: So you are frightened of me, Mr Cosgrove? I am not surprised. You should be, because\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279dc26be10fa4f96bf2341623dd5eb6c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I am not the object of the debate. Please keep the conversation in the third person; do not bring the Chair into the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022705e7c08d7c045cdaed12bbf3036063b\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise, Mr Assistant Speaker. I was referring my comments to Mr Cosgrove. Mr Cosgrove trivialises the very fundamental issue of law and order. He talked about there being no crime in the country. He trivialised the speech that Melissa Lee made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efccc99efc244fde88a91872b1cf82c2\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242691d01f7b3489493bc666fac5d8997\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes he did. He talked about there being no crime in New Zealand. He said that the white doves would be free to be released, that there would be no crime, and that all would be good and well in this country. The member shows how he \u201Ctrivilises\u201D this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a55f1b7c36842699301eeb68eb677a3\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CTrivil\u201D what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8bb71cba4ee41a094c3d961e67bc75d\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: He trivialised it. Moana Mackey rose to say that this bill does practically nothing, and then she went on to say that my colleague says that in itself this bill will do little. [Interruption] That is what she said. David Quarrack has quite rightly said that in itself, this bill will do little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221160cc5043bd4b35a031bd321755aaf8\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to be of assistance, because I know that every member has the right to be addressed in the appropriate way. I think that Mr Boscawen was referring to Mr Garrett, not Mr Barrett. I do not think we have a Mr Barrett in the House, and I think that the member should show some respect to his colleague.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc153be32bde43d6b1edf37bb2a524e4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a proper point of order. I call the member to continue his speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f270737695049fb905a7121df970d16\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. If members are concerned that this bill does practically nothing, then let me just talk to them about some of the other bills that will come before the House on this issue. Let me talk about the three strikes bill. The ACT Party came to Parliament on a promise to introduce the three strikes bill. Members of the Opposition will have an opportunity to vote for that bill and to refer it to a select committee; members will have the chance to vote for that bill, refer it back to the House, and pass it into law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244e57e931d0d4756b3cacabadf2cf55f\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: When will that be introduced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208beeedd4d4443548de50c8fd5624dde\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: 15 years!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228210561d06274af1bc8faff9a5f4852d\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: The initial effect of that ACT bill will be immediate, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9d671f8ffe6441281ef09820d7538c7\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Immediate\u2014no it won\u2019t. Talk to Garrett. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5b7450d5a454d6bbcf850b1167f6514\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9385064da544100841d81f15eb84ee6\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He said 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226370f0e4c97a487c87f86dd83c259fcf\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you can smile. Let me explain to you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1e76c93912b4231a2bb120b2d6a1096\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot smile; please keep me out of the debate. Focus on the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022211c776cefa84f16baa4a7589307d0f4\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. Let me explain to the member how that bill will operate. On the first conviction, criminals on serious and violent offences will be convicted and sentenced, and will serve the full length of the term that the judge sentences them for. So on their first conviction for a serious and violent offence, offenders will have to serve the full length of their sentences. On the second conviction for a serious and violent offence, they will have to serve the maximum sentence. So if the maximum for grievous bodily harm is 14 years, then that is exactly what they will serve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EThe point that Mr Garrett was trying to make, which has been misrepresented by the Opposition, is that if criminals have two strikes they will in the first instance already have served the time set down by the judge for the first strike, so they will serve the maximum time provided under the law for the second serious violent conviction. Then on the third conviction they will serve 25 years to life. So if members on the other side of the House are concerned that this bill does practically nothing, if that is their concern, then I can tell them that the ACT Party came into this Parliament to fulfil its social contract with the people of New Zealand, to keep the people of New Zealand safe, and to punish those who commit serious violent crimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Cosgrove and Mr Cullen\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6b4787889bd4e7cad52a5ac6c68a2bb\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Cullen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f96d1e7c8854459a59ddea1fd784fc1\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I apologise; the Hon Dr Cullen\u2014that they and their colleagues will have the opportunity to refer ACT\u2019s three strikes bill to a select committee. I welcome those members\u2019 support, and the support of the National members on that committee, to hear the submissions of the public of New Zealand, and then to refer the bill back and pass it into law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a57749d2edae4fd8830685da8570b64d\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What other bills are coming?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a4061209eaa4736bb9ea3f9f411a4b0\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, hopefully there will be a repeal of the emissions trading scheme. There will be future tax bills. [Interruption] That is right. I am pleased the member is clapping, because the Hon Jim Anderton was having a crack at the National Government earlier this week, and at the fact that there was no reference to research and development in the Speech from the Throne. Those members forget that the Labour Government passed emissions trading legislation that will introduce severe taxes for the rural sector in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ac869baeffc4ba08f3d1bec63e4f7d9\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What else is coming? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3a7a7cf282c42d38b1530a9fb1f0bd3\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: What else are you going to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2f4ba4b9ca44d7e8cd69321e934f89e\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am very pleased to hear the interjections. I wish they would come just one at a time, because then I could actually hear them and respond to them. It is actually a bit hard to hear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294c126a1a71c424baa0a2aafb7a3158d\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What other bills are coming? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022342912a3ddf34e48b65116ad8c528c29\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: We have the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill coming up later this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225903c8913674425681f701eefd100e9d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: We? Those aren\u2019t your bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245aa5889787d4f63a49551f7e5367c47\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am happy to talk about the ACT policy on education if members wish, because we certainly believe that parents in this country should be addressing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022965fd51069fc49d2a344cd3a7de1ac55\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member should be addressing the Bail Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d10073170c74c8e874bafc33f153353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95886a1da574a3096bdf913874ee1bb\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Mr Assistant Speaker, I did not hear those comments. I am happy to sit down, because the point I am trying to make is that the Labour Opposition is saying that this bill will do practically nothing. If members think this bill will do practically nothing, they will have the opportunity to vote for the ACT \u201CThree Strikes and You are Out Bill\u201D early in the New Year. I can assure them that that bill will do something, and that members of the ACT Party are committed to this Government fulfilling its social contract with the people of New Zealand. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ff8e9a813264413805e0ee20fd1f70a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: For the edification of the House, I remind members that we are on the third reading of the Bail Amendment Bill. The Government\u2019s agenda for some time in the future is not part of that discussion\u2014interesting though it was to members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022 data-id=\u002280283a0134364dd3b6e7a748aed9bae6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280283a0134364dd3b6e7a748aed9bae6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will take, I hope, a relatively brief call. This must be an awful day for Government members. Today they have found out that practically none of their backbenchers can move a closure motion correctly, so the crusade for literacy starts there. They cannot even read: \u201CI move that the question be now put.\u201D I saw them: they had it in front of them, and they could not even read it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThen Government members found out that their coalition partners give fruit cake a bad name. That speech really was a worry. Anybody who knows my background will know that I have been a rather staunch critic of Marxism as an intellectual theory, but Marx had the insight that lots of groups have what is called false consciousness\u2014they tend to argue what is actually against their own intrinsic interests. I say to Mr Boscawen that a large amount of the choice seafront property in New Zealand is owned by the supporters of the ACT Party, so ACT had better be right on global warming, because if it has got it wrong, it will be a classic case of false consciousness. ACT is about to drown its own supporters progressively over the coming generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EComing back to the Bail Amendment Bill, I say that during the election campaign Mr Power flew around the country like some kind of superhero. He was \u201CJustice Man\u201D, with a big \u201CJ\u201D on his chest and great wads of cotton wool stuffed elsewhere on his body, and he was going to deliver justice to the country. He was going to clamp down on crime. He was going to wipe out everything that everybody hated about crime. He laboured mightily in the vineyard, and he brought forth\u2014well, it is flattery to call it a mouse. It is actually a little, tiny bill that is not new, as he said in his first reading speech of roughly 200 words, I think it was at most. It is an old bill. It is what the Labour Government legislated for previously. It is not even a new idea; it is an old idea with a Labour stamp on it, and it will not do anything of any significance at all. As a kind of law and order man, he is now going around the country like Wyatt Earp with no horse and no guns, and it will not be a good way to go, I can tell Mr Power, in that particular contest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EWe are told, even in the notes prepared for us by officials, that this bill will have very little effect. Very few people will be affected by this bill, at all. If it keeps one serious violent offender from committing another violent offence, then that is obviously an advantage of the bill, but that will depend on the judges getting it right. As I said before, there is a matter of difficult judgment. People have the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. The default position is that people have bail unless there is good reason for them not to have bail, and that must be the position. Otherwise, the presumption of innocence has no meaning because it means that any of us are liable, in effect, to serve a period in prison even if we are totally innocent of the charges that have been brought against us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThis bill is all the Government can do in this first great burst of the 100 days in order to address law and order issues. That is not what people were led to expect during the election campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da8f10bd0fb487987f019f43974cf30\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t worry. More is on the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280a59ff4d141485b91f611fbccb832d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I ask Mr Power whether what is coming is what Mr Boscawen suggested\u2014something that says people have to serve the full sentence. Mr Boscawen clearly does not understand how judges work. If a judge is faced with the position where whatever sentence he or she gives is the full sentence that must be served, then the average full sentence will drop for any given set of offences. That is precisely what judges will do, because they will take into account the fact that the full sentence must be served and there is no possibility of parole. It also means that prisoners will be less well prepared for release into the community and, when finally released, they will be more likely to reoffend. So that measure is very unlikely to protect the community better against violent offences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003EThis is a classic case of the idea that if a party puts together enough bumper stickers it can make a car, but it does not actually work that way\u2014not even for a non-turbocharged car. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a301f037473a46ecbf2a927c60049915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ba4357e3edb49909ecaf329df01f04b\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they still laugh at his jokes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cec6e70488aa4c208e4796a9f8ea2ca1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am glad Jacqui Dean interrupted, because one of the things I have not understood is why she is not the Minister of Finance. As the only member opposite who knows how to get money without borrowing it from overseas, she is precisely the person we need to be Minister of Finance at the moment, when the Government is in great need of money without having to borrow it. But, of course, she does not actually have a clue how to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003ELet me say to Mr Power that this is a trivial bill. It is a bill that will not achieve its stated effects. It will not reduce crime. It will not protect the public from violence. It may lead to some marginal increase in costs and\u2014as Ms Turei quite rightly said\u2014if that happens, given the cap on spending, that money will have to come from somewhere else and it may well come from the provision of rehabilitation programmes. At the end of the day, we will support the bill because actually it does nothing, but what a waste of time it is to pretend that this is the great measure, under urgency in the first week of Parliament, to deal with law and order issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022 data-id=\u00220ce15cf855094d7998af8e9adfb53d22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ce15cf855094d7998af8e9adfb53d22\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to be able to take a call and make a few points in respect of the Bail Amendment Bill. It is good to know too that the Labour Opposition is supporting the Government in respect of this provision, a provision that is no silver bullet, in spite of what the Opposition says we have cracked it up to be. We know that there is no particular legislation that will do an absolute job on absolutely everything; everybody knows that. We are not under any illusions in that respect, in spite of the hopes and dreams of those who come into this House as we all did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad3bde4f98b640ce8ee14a319c659226\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Melissa Lee is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fda0da44f22141c285da1d9480442c05\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: What is a bit of a shame to look at, though, is the way the Labour Party Opposition is prepared to take the mickey out of anybody who comes here with some sort of experience to bring to the table, or some sort of energy or willingness to express desires in where the law might be able to take them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to hear the former member for \u014Ctaki expressing a bit of humour and taking the mickey in that particular way. At least he does it with a little bit of class. He has some youthful enthusiasm\u2014as I understand it, he has been shaving for 10 years, and he cut himself on both occasions. It is a totally different scenario for the soon to be former member for Waimakariri, who wants to take a slap every time he turns. When he speaks like he does, turning one way to the other, it is as if he has the agitator from one of those old washing machines stuck in his nether regions, because that is the way he does it time and time again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EThe fact is that this legislation is just a little bit of common sense, which brings something to the debate around reoffending and the opportunity to reoffend. It is one small step that we can take. If those members are prepared to go out and back legislation, which they say does nothing, we look forward to them backing the legislation that we intend to bring before this House in respect of gangs and in respect of recovering DNA from every person who is arrested for an imprisonable offence. We look forward to hearing those members backing us on legislation that, for instance, will put 12 and 13-year-olds before the Youth Court and allow them to access the programmes and extend the sentences that that court will be able to impose upon those young offenders to make some real intervention and to provide some of the real rehabilitation that the Green member lamented the absence of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EWe look forward to hearing the Labour Party back us on legislation that will give longer sentences to those accused of crimes against children, who are the most vulnerable within our society. No doubt there will be references to other cases that have been to the absolute shame of New Zealand society. We look forward to the Labour Party backing Government initiatives to remove the options of parole for the worst repeat violent offenders. If the Labour Party is prepared to back this legislation purely on the basis that the politics of not supporting it would only damn it within the headlines and over every bar leaner in the country, then we look forward to the Labour Opposition backing the serious legislation that will soon come before the House that will deal significantly to repeat offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229038446ec96040c4b9c1eaffd72a9c8c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Bail Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 106\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 3; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d210ae64d40f4e699b10c12d4c4dbdfa\u0022\u003EEducation (National Standards) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe691da6f1ab45b4be2eaa18ceed9803\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022 data-id=\u0022d358f13864b940f28d533b210e36e053\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d358f13864b940f28d533b210e36e053\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. The Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill implements policy changes that this Government is committed to as part of our priority action plan for education. The National-led Government is absolutely committed to raising education standards. This bill delivers on that commitment by raising standards of achievement and attendance in compulsory education. The bill does two things to achieve that: it gives the Minister of Education the power to set national standards in literacy and numeracy, and it strengthens truancy law. At the moment, one in five New Zealand children leaves school without the qualifications he or she needs to succeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EOur Government wants all children and young people to have the basic skills they need in order to do well at school and to succeed in the workforce. The bill underpins that focus by giving the Minister of Education an explicit power to set national standards in literacy and numeracy. It adds national standards to the National Education Guidelines so that the Minister of Education may publish by notice in the Gazette national standards in literacy and numeracy. The introduction of national standards in literacy and numeracy will provide an external benchmark against which to measure student progress. Making that explicit in the National Education Guidelines will sharpen our focus on the improvement of student achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EI want to stress to all involved that this legislation gives the Minister of Education the power to set those standards; the legislation does not itself set the standards. In the new year the Ministry of Education will be leading a consultation round with the wider education sector. At that time the sector will be consulted about the design of the standards, the benchmarks that will need to be in place in order for current assessment tools to be used against the standards, and the form that reporting to parents, to the community, and to the Government will take. We have promised that consultation, and we are keeping our promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EI will listen to the sector as we undertake that consultation. The process will allow the standards to be published late in 2009 and be ready for implementation in schools at the beginning of 2010. The bill also requires school boards to include in their school charters the boards\u2019 priorities and targets for assessing students against national standards. Schools will report on those as part of their normal planning and reporting processes so as not to create more compliance costs. National standards will apply to all State schools in New Zealand, and they will apply to students from years 1 to 8. They will provide a set of shared expectations about what students should be achieving as they move through primary and intermediate school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EMany teachers already know how well their students are doing in their classes. Many teachers already use a range of assessment tools to identify where to focus attention and ensure better progress. Despite the availability of those tools, the Education Review Office reported in March 2007 that 56 percent of schools recently reviewed were not using worthwhile achievement data. Our policy will ensure that all schools have that achievement data, and the policy will also ensure that they use it to help their students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EAn important point is that parents do not always know how their children compare with others, and neither teachers nor parents have a clear picture of how children are doing relative to their peers across the nation. An Education Review Office report published in 2007 found that 49 percent of primary schools were generally ineffective at reporting achievement information to parents and to their community. The aim of this policy is to ensure that parents get that information, and that they get it in a form they can understand. The bill provides teachers and parents with certainty about whether a child is reading, writing, and doing maths at the expected national level. They will also know how many other children are meeting the standard. The standards will not affect those students who are exempt from enrolment in a State school\u2014such as students who are home-schooled\u2014and will not affect students enrolled in private schools, as the National Education Guidelines do not apply to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003ETruancy increased by 41 percent from 2002, under the previous Labour Government. On any given day under that same Government more than 30,000 students were likely to be absent from school. Students who are absent from school miss out on class work and are at risk of falling behind. Persistent truants are at serious risk of leaving school without the literacy and numeracy skills they need. Urgent action is needed. Every parent who fails to ensure his or her child attends school commits an offence. If prosecuted, parents are liable to a fine. At the moment, the maximum fine for a first offence is $150. The maximum fine for a second offence is $400. This bill raises the maximum level of those fines. Parents will be fined up to $300 for a first offence and up to $3,000 for a second or subsequent offence. Parents also commit an offence if they fail to enrol their child at school, and the level of fine for that offence will rise from $1,000 to a maximum of $3,000. Although the maximum level of the fine will be $3,000, judges will still have the discretion to consider a number of factors when deciding the level of the fine to impose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003ESome members may want the House to consider alternative measures to prosecution and fines. Let me assure members that prosecuting parents is a last-resort intervention used for persistent, unjustified, and parent-condoned truancy. Prosecution is for when other alternatives fail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EAs well as changing the law, this Government will support schools to address issues of truancy. Our election policy outlined additional funding for schools to assist them to deal with truants. The bill allows the Secretary for Education to take prosecutions. The Secretary for Education may assist the school by taking the prosecution. The secretary may also take action if a school does not do so, in cases where chronic parent-condoned truancy is identified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EI ask that this House gives earnest consideration to supporting the two areas that I have outlined: the power to set national standards in literacy, and the strengthening of truancy law. This is a priority area for education. It begins the task of raising the standards of achievement and attendance in our New Zealand schools. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022 data-id=\u00227394a259530048d9a1d6764641ea6101\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227394a259530048d9a1d6764641ea6101\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E As I listened to the lacklustre new Minister of Education, I wondered how that Minister would fare if the new 90-day rule applied to Government Ministers. That member, Anne Tolley, is the same new Minister of Education who was replayed on television last night telling teachers in the election campaign that the 90-day trial period does not apply to schools. We were told in the House yesterday that\u2014what was it we were told, I ask Mr Cosgrove\u2014yes, it does apply to schools with under 20 employees. That is about 800 schools, and virtually every early childhood education centre in the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EMrs Tolley, the new Minister of Education, has, I venture to say, already very little credibility in the job\u2014just like the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. I have to say that when I looked at the legislation I wondered what it was for. It was supposed to be the great crusade for literacy. The bill acknowledges that the testing regimes\u2014the assessment regimes\u2014that will be used in New Zealand schools are already happening. The member may not know what NAGs are, but most of the rest of us, especially those of us who have been teachers, know they are National Administration Guidelines. Point (ii)(b) of National Administration Guideline 1, which all schools are required to follow, states that schools must give priority to student achievement in literacy and numeracy. National Administration Guidelines 1 and 2 state that schools must develop a programme of teaching literacy and numeracy in their schools and must set up assessment processes, and that those processes must be explained and shown to students, parents, and the community. The schools are required to do those things, and they are checked every 3 years when the Education Review Office visits the schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWhat is the purpose of the bill? Is it a sort of fig leaf to cover up National\u2019s election slogans that talked about the failure of New Zealand schools? Actually, as I have said many times recently in the House, New Zealand schools are extraordinarily successful. Indeed, our students figure among the most successful in the world. I kept thinking about what the purpose of the bill was. I read it a second time, and it became clear that this is actually an insidious and very dangerous bill. It is a Trojan Horse for right-wing policies in education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EFirst of all, it removes the ability for the Ministry of Education to use regulation to set up national standards. If the Minister publishes them in the Gazette, of course, they cannot go to Parliament\u2019s Regulations Review Committee. They cannot be examined to see how valid they are. This bill is about getting national standards by a dictatorial approach to education. It is about the standards not being scrutinised. Actually, of course, that is the process we are engaged in now. This bill is being rammed through. There is no ability for any of the stakeholder groups in education\u2014the School Trustees Association, the New Zealand Educational Institute, the Post Primary Teachers Association, the Principals Federation, or the parents and the students themselves\u2014to have an input into the bill, because it is being rammed through in urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003ESecondly\u2014and this is why the bill is very dangerous\u2014it introduces the idea of national standards. I think that every member of this House who is interested in education will know that where national standards have been imposed\u2014in places like the UK, for example, or recently in the United States under the Bush regime\u2019s \u201CNo Child Left Behind\u201D policy\u2014they have been an absolute and utter failure. I know that some of my colleagues will be talking more this evening and tomorrow about the experiences of other countries and other education systems where national standards have been imposed. Of course, teachers then teach to the test. They do not look at lifting students\u2019 literacy and numeracy. Mrs Tolley has already totally discredited herself in her meetings with school principals. A principal rang me today to say that in his experience as a principal, she must be the most inexperienced, the most unsuitable person to be appointed as the Minister of Education. I would like to talk about what is happening in our schools. Is Mrs Tolley knowledgable at all about the programmes that are going on in schools? asTTle was mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec156f0ea06848cc8164b9d981040b5a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Plays cricket!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256183a4294e4408e8d938f0bd07faef0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: That is true; she probably thinks it is a cricketer. There is the reading recovery programme, in which New Zealand has been a world leader. There is Project Probe and there are the literacy and numeracy progressions, which are part of a developing pilot programme going on in every New Zealand school. Those are successful programmes. Indeed, as I said before, the bill itself acknowledges them. So why is the Government implementing these national standards? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI remind the House again that the bill is about a different agenda in education. It is about saying that we will have competition between schools. One of the hallmarks of New Zealand education has been the collaborative and collegial approach both within our schools and between schools. One of the programmes that I, as Minister of Education, was very proud of was the Extending High Standards in Schools programme, whereby secondary and primary schools collaborated to share best practice. They were not competing, but cooperating together to get the best learning outcomes for their students. We were also doing fantastic work in networking for specific areas such as information and communications technology. That was building on a long tradition in New Zealand education of schools working together. Between 1990 and 1999 the National Government introduced bulk funding. Schools became extraordinarily competitive. I know there are some members of this House who were proponents of bulk funding, but I have to say that the vast bulk of the education sector was very opposed to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EOur school system\u2014a world-class, cutting-edge education system\u2014is about collaboration, innovation, and looking for ways in which we can lift students\u2019 learning outcomes. This bill does nothing to achieve those goals. In fact, it is anti those goals. The bill is about competition, league tables, and comparing schools. We already know that the greatest teaching challenges for New Zealand education are in our low-decile schools, with lower socio-economic groups, and with M\u0101ori and Pacific students. The success of those students is the future of our country. Some 21 percent of young New Zealanders have M\u0101ori heritage. It is in their interests, and our country\u2019s interest, to lift those students\u2019 learning to the best of their potential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWhat will this bill do? It will create league tables comparing schools. It will compound the perception of winner schools and loser schools. Low-decile schools will have the worst outcomes because of this bill. High-decile schools will be the most successful. The Government has already indicated to the House that it will be \u201Cflexible\u201D about enrolment zones. We know that is code for weakening them further. We saw what happened when zoning was removed; we saw the growth of perceived winner schools, and we saw the decline of the neighbourhood school, which was perceived as not successful. We do not want that to happen again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI do not have a lot of time left in this part of my contribution, so I would like to just touch on the truancy issue. Truancy is an issue that mostly affects students who opt to truant. We want to get those students engaged. A very, very small number of parents actively collaborate in making their children stay away from school. The parents of most truants are, in fact, desperate to get their kids back into school. In principle, I am not opposed to an increase in penalties for parents who actively collaborate with and assist their children to truant. What I am concerned about is that good parents will be punished for the behaviour of their bad kids. So Labour will be introducing at least one amendment, which clarifies that this legislation applies only to parents who actively collaborate to ensure that their children truant. We do not want good parents punished for the behaviour of their bad kids. Everyone in this House who is a parent knows that parents cannot always be responsible for what our children do. We want the best for them, but we cannot always be responsible for what they do. We do not want good parents being punished. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003ESo I say to the House that this legislation will not receive the support of the Labour Party, because we think it will do nothing to assist literacy and numeracy outcomes in our schools. In fact, it will be a barrier to that ambition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa9f4fc6a8da4c1fbd90fe7a23d17615\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa9f4fc6a8da4c1fbd90fe7a23d17615\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I listened with some interest to Mr Chris Carter\u2019s speech, and I was thinking that I could have written it\u2014it was so predictable. I suspect that for the Labour members who will follow, I could do exactly the same sort of thing. That will be the tragedy of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EI observe that Mr Carter did not indicate to the House whether the Labour Party will be supporting the bill or voting against it. If Labour members are going to vote against it, let me say what they are going to vote against. No child growing up in New Zealand at the moment who does not learn to read, to write, and to do maths has a place in the social and economic structure of a modern country. No child who is going to school and who is not being taught to read, to write, and to do maths, and no child who, because of his or her particular learning styles that do not fit in with established ideologies and methodologies, does not learn to read, to write, and to do maths has a future in a country like New Zealand. That is what this bill, the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, is all about. Finally, at long last, a Government is making an effort to deal to a problem that has undermined the New Zealand schooling system for far too long. We know, and the Opposition knows, that too many of our children are failing at school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EYou know, one of the things that the National Certificate of Educational Achievement finally told us is that the percentage of our children who are not reaching minimum standards is far too high. The Opposition members who are going to take calls later need to be very, very careful that they do not advance the argument that really says \u201CLet\u2019s continue to deny a fifth of our children the chance to learn. Let\u2019s continue to deny them the expectation that they can and will learn.\u201D It is absolutely beyond me how any member elected to this Parliament would want anything but to make every effort to ensure that more of our children learn. It is simple. It is not about ideology. It is not about methodology. It is not about the old arguments that relate to decile rating, family background, ethnic background, or all that sort of stuff. It is not about all the old reasons that have been advanced to justify why some children are not learning. It is about a standard and an expectation that many more of our children than currently reach that standard can reach it and should reach it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EIt would be very wise for the members opposite to remember one thing: our national qualification system, which I guarantee they all support\u2014and when in Government they defended it and worked hard to develop and improve it\u2014is a standards-based system. This bill is bringing the notion of an education system based on standards as to what children need to know and be able to do down into the primary sector, so that there is a natural continuum in the way that children are learning how they have to learn and what they have to learn, and so that we can be sure they are reaching those standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022079b217c6bcf41a78027dcd56b2e157f\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s happened already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224abb9794cc5d4804845eb21863892954\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not want to hear from the Opposition a whole pile of stuff about what is happening in America, or what is happening in Britain. I do not want to hear badly quoted research. I know a lot of those researchers; I have spoken on platforms with some of them. The Opposition members should be very, very careful about what they claim is happening in the United Kingdom and the United States, in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EI repeat that the most important thing about this legislation is that, for the first time, it will establish an expectation of what we expect and need our children to do. It is a statement of faith and confidence in the next generation of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022631e7a4c9dee41cfa7beeaed88ce1bd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022631e7a4c9dee41cfa7beeaed88ce1bd1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I am speaking in opposition to this legislation, and I am doing that not because I think that the Minister has evil intents but because I think she is confused and probably does not understand what she is doing. She certainly has not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215df0fc586bd4f1dae3586e52f5e64ac\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: So patronising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022923757c8a2a0433d8d3f09e4c718b517\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she certainly has not read the National Administration Guidelines. I will read some of them to her, because clearly her literacy skills are not at the point of reading them well herself: \u201CEach Board, through the principal and staff, is required to: (i) \u2026 (b) giving priority to student achievement in literacy and numeracy, especially in years 1-4 \u2026 (ii) though a range of assessment practices, gather information that is sufficiently comprehensive to enable the progress and achievement of students to be evaluated; giving priority first to: (a) student achievement in literacy and numeracy,\u201D. It is a requirement: \u201C(iii) on the basis of good quality assessment information, [to] identify students and groups of students; (a) who are not achieving; (b) who are at the risk of not achieving;\u201D. National Administration Guideline 2 states that it is a requirement to: \u201C(iii) report to students and their parents on the achievement of individual students,\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe point I am making is that there is already a requirement to do this, and the Education Review Office is getting better at making sure that schools are meeting that requirement. This bill is unnecessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EIf we move to a standards system, then it is likely that the progressive achievement test will be the one selected. In my view that would not be a good thing. It is probably the test that is most widely used. It is a test run by the New Zealand Council for Educational Research, but it is now generally regarded as being a bit old-fashioned and not up with the play or up with the modern world. We have instead had for 8 years now, I think, a development at Auckland University. The asTTle system under Professor John Hattie is one that is internationally regarded and used widely through New Zealand. It is working very, very well at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022758f38581142436488d2efa342032a7a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You had better explain it to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284fff77fec1a416c82c934666be0d3d9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I do not want to go into the detail on the asTTle system other than to say that it is mainly computer-based, and that it does not give just a raw score but indicates where a particular student\u2019s strengths are and where the student\u2019s weaknesses are across a range of topics. As well as that, it can work across a class and show the strengths and weaknesses of a particular teacher and, therefore, the need for professional development in that classroom in a way that the progressive achievement test being promoted by the National Government has no chance of doing at all. The progressive achievement test gives a raw score and it is essentially useless. What will happen is that we will have a lot more time focused on assessment, which means less time for teaching and learning. What do kids go to school for? They go to school to learn; they do not go to school to be assessed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI will comment on the UK system. I know quite a lot about it; I looked at it when I was in Opposition before I was the Minister of Education. I spent a couple of our summers getting quite cold looking at the British political and education system. The point I got to was that the British have what is effectively a decile-based system of requirements for schools to meet particular levels of literacy and numeracy. If the schools do not meet them, they are punished over a period of years, and if they get it wrong substantially, then they are disestablished. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EFor example, a school that is given a requirement that 85 percent of its students are to be assessed at a particular level or higher focuses on the group of students between about 70 percent and 90 percent to make sure that this group gets the school over its 85 percent, because that is seen as being successful for the school. What happens if a pupil is in the bottom 10 percent? That pupil is essentially ignored. What happens if a pupil is in the top 70 percent? For a large period of the year, that pupil is essentially ignored. What happens is that there is a lot of focus on that assessment but it is on only a very narrow range of kids rather than on kids from across the board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI will tell members a little about Wainui\u014Dmata and what has happened there, in my electorate and in the town where I live, over the last 4 or 5 years since we have had change there. We have moved in schools that are all either decile 3 or decile 4 towards literacy and numeracy results that are above the national average in New Zealand\u2014sitting up around the results of a decile 6 school, on average\u2014as a result of intensive work and some very good assessment using the asTTle system. The schools have done it voluntarily and they share the information from school to school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons the system works brilliantly in Wainui\u014Dmata is that schools share information vertically, with the intermediate school and the secondary school, and they share it with each other, with schools next door, in a cooperative way rather than in the competitive way that will inevitably result from the national testing and the league tables that will flow from this. I can tell the Minister that if schools are required to keep this information, then it will be available under the Official Information Act, and league tables will be appearing in newspapers all over the place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge Hekia Parata for the work that her family has done up on the East Coast in this area. Again, enormous progress has been made in groups of schools there where there has been a special focus on teaching and learning, and, incidentally, on assessment. It has been led by the teaching, and the assessment is incidental to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faa21230d58e468a95fe544c4b108810\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Are you supporting it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227917413035324c24aabe824452250760\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not supporting the bill, at all. What I am saying is that it gives undue focus and it gives one system, and there are quite a few systems in New Zealand that work very well. There is already a requirement to use one of them; it is in the national assessment guidelines. The Minister should read her own guidelines and then she will understand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI will go back to the M\u0101ori and Pacific Island students in Wainui\u014Dmata and tell the members of the House that throughout the valley this group of kids quite often, on average, progresses at twice the rate of the national average for that age group. Quite often the average gets 2 years instead of 1 year, and that is very special and it is something I am very proud of. But the reason it happens is that people work in a cooperative, collaborative way and do not have things imposed on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI will do a little mea culpa here. A couple of years before I became the Minister of Education I contemplated policy of this type. I contemplated it, I spoke about it, I had an enormous amount of dialogue about it around the country, and, at the point of becoming the Minister of Education, I was at the point where I knew that it would not be effective. That is why the previous Labour Government put enormous resources into teaching and learning and into the development of the asTTle system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI tell the Minister that the asTTle system is not ready to be introduced, even in 2010, as a compulsory national testing system. It is not there, it is not ready, and it will not work for that. The only choice the Minister will have, if she is really to have national standards, will be to have national testing. I think all of us understand that\u2014I think all of us other than the Minister understand that. If we are to have national standards, then there can be only one system in New Zealand, and that will be the progressive achievement test system. That will mean that we are working our way back to a system that was seen over a period of time as being very, very good, then good, and then actually pretty average when compared with the rest of the world, and it is now seen as being somewhat behind the times. Part of the problem with this approach is that we can have someone who is waving a flag for standards, but she is actually causing those standards to regress as a result of the work that she has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe last point I would make is that if I were the Minister of Education, I would love to have the powers in this bill. There is excessive ministerial power in this bill, in my view. Not having to properly gazette, and not having to put things into regulation and have them subject to review or proper scrutiny, is very bad, and no Minister, including myself, should have that power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022d046a17c7ef14bbd819ba47059c7360e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d046a17c7ef14bbd819ba47059c7360e\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E This bill proposes to test children more and to fine their parents more if they miss class. Changes to testing, in particular, have been made on the basis that this testing will give us more information. This would be a good thing if it were information that is lacking, but that is not the case; we actually have a great deal of information about the children who are not succeeding in our education system. We know that many of them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d2ef9658b14423989ca908167901b21\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: What are we doing about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214c80ea38713493580cf8d9be911c2f8\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: Testing them, I say to Mr Peachey, will not alleviate their poverty, will it? Testing them will not insulate their homes so that they no longer get asthma, I say to Mr Peachey. We know that many of these children are living in poverty, and we know that they are more likely to be M\u0101ori than P\u0101keh\u0101. Whomever we might hope is looking after them is sometimes not there to take care of them in the way we would like, and there is often a good reason for that. It is not a case of the parents just being neglectful; the parents are working several minimum wage jobs in order to pay market rents and to buy groceries to feed their families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThese are parents who might well wish that they could be there when their kids get home from school but it is simply impossible for them to be in two places at one time. And, of course, if the rent is not paid, or the power gets cut, then they will have failed to provide the safe and secure shelter that parents all desire for their children. [Interruption] People on low wages, I say to Ms Tolley and Mr Peachey, have to make decisions that people on high wages, like the members, do not have to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EPeople who are very rich can easily afford to have a parent stay at home, either full time or part time, to provide the framework around school-age children, to make the healthy lunches, and to supervise the homework, and often\u2014and it might be the case for some in this House\u2014they can employ someone to do that very work. Some really rich people do that\u2014and that is fine. Good for them! But not everyone has that choice, and people generally make the best decisions that they can with the resources they have available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ESo what has National done to help make it easier for those families who are living in this kind of hardship\u2014those whose children are living in the poverty that is actually the cause of the long tail of underachievement? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df62deb665824285a6812b405746aae6\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What have the Greens done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c65365342bea4064a7a877ee0bc08c51\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: Well, National just voted to make them pay more tax, which I am sure will be very helpful to those families and those children. National voted to make them pay more tax so that it could give more tax cuts to the very rich. National has also consistently voted against raising the minimum wage, even as prices increase and even as families face increasing hardship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022467030e1ab0147e698cd387553518bf3\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: What about the 90-day bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a362b4fe95ea4236b7f332b8650053b2\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: The 90-day bill is another example. National members consistently voted against Working for Families, and they resiled from that position only because they thought there were votes in it. Now they have come to this House and proposed that the answer to dealing with underachievement is to test kids more to find out which of these children are doing so badly, and to fine their parents\u2014take more money out of their pockets\u2014when they fail to get their kids to attend enough classes. It is out of touch. It is insane. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe know that kids with health problems sometimes do not do well in school. That is obvious. Often they will miss a lot of classes. Sometimes they cannot hear well enough to learn, because they have something like glue ear, or they might have asthma, which keeps them at home and away from school. Sometimes they are malnourished, on a combination of caffeine and sugary junk that is often bought from the schools themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe know that poor health is a factor in underachievement, and we know what the solutions are. It is not rocket science, but it takes money. We have too many cold, damp houses, which impact on the health of our population. Whether people choose not to live in a cold, damp house or to insulate the houses they have generally depends on how much money they have. The Green Party fought long and hard to get a billion-dollar fund, the Green Homes Fund, through the negotiations on the emissions trading scheme, and that would have paid to pretty much ensure that every home in this country\u2014every low-income home\u2014was warm, dry, and healthy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe benefits are absolutely clear. For every dollar spent on insulating cold houses, there is close to a $2 benefit in energy and health savings, which means less time off work, less time off school, and a better quality of life and health for the children for whom these are serious issues. Keeping kids healthy enough to get to school and to learn at school is critical to giving every single New Zealand child a fair chance at education and success. But, of course, National axed the fund. So National has made sure that homes will stay cold and damp, and that, as a result, children will continue to suffer from glue ear, asthma, and eczema. National\u2019s choice is to keep these children in poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ENational has vigorously opposed all moves to get junk food out of school tuck shops, despite knowing that what children eat impacts on their ability to learn. National does not care about children\u2019s nutrition and the impacts of nutrition on kids\u2019 learning. It does not care about teachers having to deal with children who are so hyped on school junk food they cannot concentrate and keep getting into trouble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThen, of course, there are the teachers. We need more of them\u2014of that we can be absolutely sure. We need to value them much more highly than we do. Lowering student-teacher ratios means teachers can spend more time with children who need extra time and support. More teachers also means that those who need specialist attention, for whatever reason, will get the needs-based support they are entitled to. But Treasury, in its briefing to the incoming Minister, has advised the Government to \u201CShift spending in compulsory education from investment with low returns (such as lower student-teacher ratios) to high returns (such as approved accountability for student achievement and development of teaching practice).\u201D I am pretty sure I just read that Treasury said that improving student-teacher ratios has low returns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI presume Treasury must mean short-term economic returns, because I guess giving every child enough one-on-one teacher time takes a while to pay off. It is hard to measure. It might, in some cases, even reduce the crime rate, or it might, in some other cases, enable a child to excel in what he or she is good at, leading to scientific breakthroughs that save millions of lives. That has happened in this country in the past. So I call on the Minister of Education to reject the advice of Treasury about the low return of lower student-teacher ratios. Teachers are not a low-quality investment. They are the lifeblood of our education system, and our kids need more of their time, not less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThis bill will tell us that some kids are not doing so well. We will find out that we have failing children, failing teachers, failing schools, and failing communities. How helpful is that? What the next response from the Government might be is one of my concerns. Of course, it leads to a league table of failures\u2014a league table of the \u201Cbestest and worstest\u201D primary schools\u2014a long list of all the schools and communities that will fail this National test of wealth and privilege, because that is what it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWhat next after that? If we look at the international examples\u2014and we will talk about those more in the coming debate\u2014we see that we get vouchers, so that those poor, sad, rich families can move their unhappy, poor, sad, rich children from those underprivileged, underfunded schools, leaving those poorer families and those poorer communities to continue with underfunded, poorly resourced schools. What might come after that? If we look at the international examples, we find that private investors will go in and buy up those underfunded, degraded schools for a song, so that National can continue its policy of overfunding private schools with desperately needed public education money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EIt is very interesting to see that these educational testing standards will not apply to private schools but only to State schools, even though private schools get lots and lots of public money\u2014nearly double the money the Labour Government ever put in. National will increase it. So despite the fact that there will be public money investment, they will not have to suffer the same kinds of educational tests and standards as State schools will. Make no mistake: National\u2019s agenda is to privatise schools. That is alive and well, and this bill is a first step towards that agenda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe will spend a lot of money finding out that underfunding schools and underfunding communities creates a long tail of poverty that causes underachievement. We already know that. Everybody in South Auckland already knows that. We have a lack of action, a lack of vision, a complete, dismal failure by this National Government to put the resources into the schools and communities where it is needed. Instead, National will privatise and put money into private schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022 data-id=\u002238c231103ac74cc39d21fff1693e7484\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238c231103ac74cc39d21fff1693e7484\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the first reading of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. Anybody who listened to the contribution from the Green member would be about ready to leave the country, I would think, because it sounds like there is nothing positive at all about this bill. In fact, what we have with this change of Government, a National-ACT Government with support from the M\u0101ori Party and United Future, is the start of a new era. With that comes not more talk about failing children, failing teachers, and failing systems, but an opportunity to turn things round for our children in this country and to give them the opportunities they have not had in the last long 9 years under a Labour-led Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EWe have the opportunity to do something positive in education and provide opportunities for those children from lower socio-economic homes and for those children who are not doing well in the current system\u2014and there is very good reason for that. We heard talk from the Green member about damp houses, the minimum wage, nutrition, the 90-day bill\u2014I think for a moment there she forgot she was actually meant to be talking about education. Solutions do not revolve around more of the same failing system that has let down far too many of our children in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill, which is worth looking specifically at, is \u201Cto raise standards of achievement and attendance in the compulsory education sector.\u201D, and that is a laudable aim. I congratulate the National Government on that initiative. The bill sets out two major changes to our education system. The first is in relation to school enrolment and attendance. Penalties for non-attendance will be beefed up to help rectify the awful record of New Zealand\u2019s habitual truants. Parents will become increasingly liable for the actions of the children in their care. Parents will be made aware that regular truancy will not be tolerated. That is nothing but a good thing. Our kids have no hope of learning and getting ahead if they are not even showing up for classes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003ESecondly, and most important, this bill will introduce national standards in literacy and numeracy. These standards will go a long way towards addressing New Zealand\u2019s declining educational standards, which have seen us plummet down international rankings. In the last 2 days we have seen articles in the newspaper with headlines such as \u201CPrimary kids get poor reports for maths, science\u201D. What about this one: \u201CKiwi kids behind Kazakhstan\u201D? If that is where our children are achieving, it is a jolly good thing for this country and our children that we have had a change of Government. It has not come a moment too soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EInstead of these changes, and instead of recognising that there is a problem in our schools, what has been the response of the Labour Party? What has been its response? Mr Carter has been standing up; Mr Mallard has just been reeling out the tired old lines that we have heard for the last 9 years that have achieved\u2014what? Our kids achieving behind children in Kazakhstan. In their 9 years of power, what was their solution? Well, here is one of them. Setting up an expensive website, Team-Up: Helping our kids learn, to extol the importance not of anything to do with learning, but of the importance of calcium in children\u2019s learning might be good for their teeth and their bones, but I do not think it has much impact on their ability to learn. As admirable as may be a goal to have adequate calcium levels in one\u2019s diet, it lacks a certain amount of reality and credibility. Thank goodness we have had a change of Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eac83495d7f1421eb70d0bc2bbb9bae6\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Say nothing of \u201CWassup!\u201D badges!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca2925a6dcc4449e886532b07661c1b8\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. Standards will help with national consistency\u2014something that was sadly lacking under the last Labour Government\u2014so that we have some comparisons, we know which schools are performing well, and we know which schools need some assistance because they are not reaching the levels of achievement and excellence that they should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EBut I give just a word of warning\u2014and this is coming from a purely ACT perspective, I guess\u2014that assessment alone is not enough. Hand in hand with this legislation must go work particularly on the curriculum. It has become burdensome and overly hefty in the lives of teachers, who have to implement all sorts of things that bear no relevance to what our education system should include. As an Associate Minister of Education under this National-led Government, I along with ACT will be advocating that we take a big picture look at education. Core amongst that is the introduction of school choice, something that ACT has long talked about and campaigned hard on during this election campaign. We should never lose sight of what our goal is. Education is the key to our long-term prosperity. We need our next generation to have the skills and creativity to thrive in the 21st century\u2014not in the 19th century. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003ETimes have moved on and we must move with them. Right now we are failing our kids. It is time for that to be turned round. We have great opportunities now to strive for excellence not just for kids who manage to do well no matter what, but for children who are disadvantaged in terms of their upbringing or in terms of their abilities to learn, and for children who are gifted and are currently falling through the gaps in a system that is letting down far too many of our young children. New Zealand\u2019s future depends on a proper education system that allows everybody to achieve to their full potential. I welcome this initiative and ACT proudly supports this bill as a starting measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4a8991d55604df1a69fd4faa5f30d4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4a8991d55604df1a69fd4faa5f30d4a\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau e huihui mai nei i te ahiahi p\u014D ki konei i t\u0113nei w\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and to us gathered here this evening at this time.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E I echo the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s support for the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. Given that I have spent my whole life in the education system and watched the mainstream schools destroy the hope of many of my people for their children, it is pretty hard to listen to some of the talk that is coming back from members on the other side of the House. I tell Mr Mallard that during his watch, M\u0101ori children were not in forms 3A, 4A, 4B, and 4C but were in forms 4M, 4N, 4O, and 4P. Nothing has changed, except that there are now different names for it. One in four M\u0101ori come out of school with little or no qualifications, at all. This is real; this is life. These are my people, whom I live with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb3bcb44d32246cd8e594982172e6b49\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s been a significant change in that, and you should acknowledge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f47e6f0d65942ca96d0d9913e8e8e76\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: The member can say whatever she likes about that, but this is the reality. That is why half of the M\u0101ori boys come out of school with a lack of incentive to take hold of the world and with little qualifications, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EThe reason for that has been exposed by Te K\u014Dtahitanga, which shows that teachers are aiming too low for M\u0101ori children. That is why we should put the standards up there and teach the standards, and, if the children do not reach those standards, we should fix the teachers up. Quite honestly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ab8d555d4ea4641bc3d7952a5d246c9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, that\u2019s not what Te K\u014Dtahitanga is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b2ed67595204f2bb78e8a15ad8390ea\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: Is that right? I tell Mr Mallard that in 1960 the Hunn report exposed a big gap between M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 achievement in schools. In 1970 we tried to introduce a programme called Taha M\u0101ori. That did not work, because it was not owned by the people and it was not geared towards achieving within the school system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EIn the 1980s came kaupapa M\u0101ori education. Kaupapa M\u0101ori education showed a new way of teaching. It was user-friendly to M\u0101ori, because it used M\u0101ori cultural customs\u2014daily, natural M\u0101ori customs\u2014and it also used the M\u0101ori language. Unfortunately, successive Governments have not supported it to the extent that they should have done in terms of the training of teachers. No matter how many submissions we made to various education ministry officials, teachers were not trained in speaking M\u0101ori and in kaupapa M\u0101ori in order to carry on that kaupapa. Sufficient training was not given to parents. Half of the kura kaupapa M\u0101ori are struggling today and need support for the parents who run the boards and also for recruiting teachers who know what they are doing to work in kaupapa M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EIn the early 2000s two major reports were produced\u2014and I think one was produced while Mr Mallard was the Minister\u2014one from the Ministry of Education, and one from Te Puni K\u014Dkiri. Both reports showed that the gaps that existed in 1960 were still there in the early 2000s. We had babysat M\u0101ori in education for 40 years, and there was still no closing of the gaps. Then we had a programme called closing the gaps, and suddenly that programme disappeared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EWe want to have the standards set so that M\u0101ori can be taught, like every other child, to reach those standards. If they are not achieving them, then we should ask why, and we should do something about it. That is why we support this bill. Let us not carry on hiding things. Let us not teach M\u0101ori children and ignore their names. The issue is about knowing their names, and it is about respecting the words \u201Ctangata whenua\u201D. [Interruption] No matter how much the member yells, he could not change the negative results while he was the Minister. He should not try to get out of that; he has to know that. It is now time that we moved. We need to take hold of kaupapa M\u0101ori and give it the lift that it needs. It is time that we looked at how teachers are teaching M\u0101ori and did something about it in Te K\u014Dtahitanga. We should front up\u2014that is what the issue is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003EWe support the implementation of these standards. We support teachers being trained to teach them, and if they do not get it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb36149152014433997f287f12085925\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The member supported second-class teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226676e1ed75fc459190fca731b676726b\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: We support success, and we support teaching people: recognising M\u0101ori as pupils, and not teaching down to them. The programmes showed that people were not even calling M\u0101ori students by their real names. Students were getting upset because teachers were sitting on tables, breaking M\u0101ori customs and rules. Teachers did not even know the names of students\u2019 parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3186f22e5b24f8aa04bc4a4922b54ac\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: And which Minister funded it more and more, because it was good?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250ba6728e15e47b4b1277e2528eb8732\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: I am trying to explain to the House why the Te K\u014Dtahitanga programme is successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226de8f67965424237b575390648b40921\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Who started it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ae961777045589790d1baef814ea0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df01fb6a75bb42b2a1c25e07c6c791e3\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: That is the whole point, is it not? It is Russell Bishop\u2019s programme, and we all support that programme. But we should listen to what it tells us. That is what I am trying to say. We should listen to it and have our teachers trained to teach up to M\u0101ori, not teach down to them. Then it will be a success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd8bd8a8001d4e7eae992071f3372869\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd8bd8a8001d4e7eae992071f3372869\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Hon Pita Sharples for his speech. He was absolutely right. His speech made clear the problem that the Labour Party has with the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EI am gobsmacked that Labour is voting against this bill. I look forward to parading up and down the country over the next 3 years and telling people that the Hon Phil Goff is opposed to education standards, that he believes in low expectations, and that he does not care about the bottom 30 percent of kids who are not reaching those expectations or those standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287ed93d849f64fb098e04917b35cc6f1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225989797dc90e420f800a1c85d495aabf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Labour members cannot make up their minds. On the one hand, they are saying that this is absolutely terrible and it will ruin everything; then their next speaker gets up and says that this is already happening. It is one or the other. Will it wreck the teaching of literacy and numeracy in our schools? Or is it, as Trevor Mallard has said, already happening? Actually, unusually, Mr Mallard is somewhere closer to the truth than Chris Carter. It is not unusual that Chris Carter is a long way from the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0b09b9549d14834aeffd20e018f63fd\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Be careful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292447d702d0045c9bb76071fc0142067\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Carter should have been careful. That is why he was the least credible Minister of Education that Labour has had in a long time. Trevor Mallard was much more credible. Actually, in this sector Trevor Mallard built up\u2014picking up what Nick Smith started\u2014a body of sensible policy about literacy and numeracy standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbefb8482598484eaafeb6ba7b09b7a8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Nick Smith had no policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261853db64d0247bbb07b76953f65617d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: He did, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EThe next logical step is that every child gets the benefit of expectations and standards, and of reporting to parents. About 40 percent of kids probably get it now. At a stretch, it might be 60 percent. But as we should be used to by now, it is the kids who need it the most who are not getting it. The schools that really should be doing it cannot be bothered. The only reason Labour did not follow the logic of its own policy to this point is that it did not want to upset anyone. Labour thought its relationship with the unions was more important than raising expectations for kids, for whom education is the way out of the circumstances they are in. Labour put the interest group before the children. Until Labour starts apologising to the country for that, the public will not take it seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EWhen Labour votes against this bill tonight, all that will do\u2014in case it is not aware\u2014is prove to so many parents why they voted against Labour and for National. It will confirm that Labour cares more about the system, a fragment of union opinion, and its mates than it does about the kids. If Labour is following the advice of Chris Carter to vote against the bill, then it is doing the wrong thing. Those young, new, progressive MPs need to know what a dead-end they are being led to. [Interruption] Well, three groups matter more than the teacher unions: the first is the teachers, and actually a lot of them voted for us this time; then there are the parents, and an overwhelming majority of them voted for us this time; and then there are the kids, and Labour thinks it can ignore the kids because kids cannot vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc29ee041d974f28b486bc72dc417719\u0022\u003EWe support this bill. We believe that it is the next logical step in New Zealand\u2019s progress with literacy and numeracy standards. We find it hard to understand that the Labour Party is so arrogant and contemptuous about anyone else who has an opinion about education that it is making the biggest single political mistake it will make in the next 12 months by voting against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022 data-id=\u002294681977522847848414007e0ce5ae66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294681977522847848414007e0ce5ae66\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Once upon a time, during the election campaign, for National education was the most important thing in the country. That is what Mr Key said. I noticed that by the time he made his Speech from the Throne, it had slipped well down the rankings\u2014well down the rankings. By then, the economy was everything, going for growth was everything. Education had slipped well down the agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThe Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill is another example of how far down the agenda of the new, arrogant National Government education has slipped. It has already slipped down, because this bill is meaningless. It is a meaningless bill. It talks about national standards that actually are already in place and that schools already teach to. The standards are there already in the National Administration Guidelines\u2014those things called NAGs. They already exist. So this bill is meaningless. But it is worse than meaningless; it is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022555f1c3d597a473ea49c54243416e5f0\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: So why are you voting against it, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5219d5ccebc41d1924f34bdd68c4800\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I will tell Mrs Tolley; I will tell her right now. It is not only meaningless but potentially dangerous. That Minister has already misled the education sector by telling its members they would be excluded from the 90-day probationary period bill. That is what she told them; it is on video, it has been on TV, and everyone has seen it. She told them that. I ask Mrs Tolley whether that is correct. Did she tell them? [Interruption] She is saying no. She was seen on TV saying that, but she has come down to the House and denied that she told the education sector that its members would be excluded from the 90-day probationary period bill. She voted for that bill. She voted for the 90-day probationary period bill. An amendment was put to exclude teachers from it. How did Anne Tolley vote? How did she vote on that amendment? Anne Tolley voted against the amendment to exclude teachers from the 90-day probationary period bill. So she cannot be trusted. She cannot be trusted, and the education sector already knows that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EWhy, then, would the education sector trust that Minister to decide what the national standards are, without any right of redress? That is the potentially dangerous thing about this bill. This bill gives that new Minister, who has already misled the education sector once\u2014and we are only 2 days into the new Parliament\u2014absolute carte blanche to decide what the national standards are. This bill says that the Minister can decide them for herself and she need only gazette them. There is no select committee process, no regulations review process. That is far too much power in the hands of the Minister, who has already misled the education sector once.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EI have had to defend that Minister already. The education sector has been asking me what her qualifications are to be the Minister of Education. I have had to defend her already. I have said that she probably does know something about the education sector; she may not know what a vice-chancellor is, or what one does, but she probably did go to school\u2014she probably did; I have had to convince some of the education sector of that. That is the Minister whom the National Government is asking the country to trust to decide what the national standards are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EWe know that this bill is being rushed through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e4224d90243443cba6bc478c5047bfa\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, it isn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d105ca370c64458c9c1983ac695cb77c\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is being rushed through the House. How much faster could it go through the House? I ask Mrs Tolley whether it is the case that this bill will go through all stages under urgency. Is that the case\u2014yes or no? I believe that the answer is yes. That means that neither the public nor the education sector\u2014no one\u2014will have the opportunity to comment on what this bill does or does not do. I think that is wrong. If education is very important, and I certainly believe our children are important, then we should be taking our time over this bill. We should make sure that we get it right. My children are worth it. I do not know whether the Minister thinks that my children are worth it, but I believe they are. I believe that every parent in this country believes that our children are important enough to warrant our looking at this process properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EMembers opposite should ask for public submissions, find out what the teachers have to say about this bill, and find out what the parents think of it. Why is the National Government so frightened to hear what the country thinks about national standards? I would like to know what parents would like to see in the national standards, because I do not trust Anne Tolley to decide what our national standards are. Goodness knows what she will come up with! These are the 100 days of action, of course, so National has to look busy, and the bill has to look like it is urgent. I would much rather have a bit of democracy, and I would much rather that this new Government actually put our children first. If National members really believe that education is the key to our future, then why do we not take our time over this bill, to get it right? Why not listen to what people want and get other people\u2019s views\u2014not just the Minister\u2019s\u2014on what should be in the national standards? There is a lot of nervousness around the education sector about this Minister and what she believes and what she does not believe, so I think the sector would want to have quite a large amount of input.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EIf we are not careful we could go down the slippery slope on this issue. Systems called national standards have already been put in place in areas like the United Kingdom. I know that some people do not want us to talk about evidence-based research. Well, I think evidence-based research is important, because these are our children we are talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef0345fabc5a444cb86d399b852f9959\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we\u2019ve mentioned the word \u201Cchildren\u201D!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223802a09079694557a126997cbc9f7965\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Peachey that we should look at the evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a89b7be4a2004ffda4bd0064f2a0329f\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: You finally mentioned the word \u201Cchildren\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223017d7174e0d427fa006d2c0c4ecda1d\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Peachey has finally woken up. I am sorry, Mr Peachey, but about 3 minutes ago I talked extensively about how important this issue was for our children. Our children are our most important resource, and we must get it right for them. So we must look to the evidence. I want to talk about some of the research. Dr Pita Sharples talked earlier about Te K\u014Dtahitanga. I want to put right a few misconceptions, because I think he misrepresented somewhat what Te K\u014Dtahitanga is about. It is a very, very good programme that was started by the Labour Government. It started in Hamilton, actually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4b358395eba4ed4937bc6d2ad17a135\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It was started by Professor Russell Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7a0e5fff0254e65bf0488c5a8a5b395\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: It was started by Professor Russell Bishop, whom I visited the other day. He is about to publish a book. In it he talks about the evidence-based research on national testing and national standards. He points out that a large body of research identifies that systems that promote accountability and/or provide incentives at the expense of capacity building are systems that do not result in successful educational reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003ELet us think about capacity building. National has told us that its whole capacity building for literacy and numeracy amounts to $18 million. That happens to be half the amount by which National is prepared to increase the funding for private schools. That is the extent of this Government\u2019s commitment to capacity building when it comes to literacy and numeracy. So we have to be very, very careful about this issue. All of the educationalists tell us that if we are going to go into the national standards area, we must do it very, very carefully. What is the National Government doing? It is rushing a bill through Parliament, and it is not having any process by which those national standards are set. No one else gets to have input into them; the Minister decides. I certainly do not trust that Minister and what she might come up with. She has already misled the sector once in her very early days of being a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ca7c80b64dd4c8da4657b6989b8791b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: She should know what a vice-chancellor is, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b37584ee53d41c1805774759f0d5c0f\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; she does need to understand what a vice-chancellor is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EI come to the other end of the spectrum when it comes to education. Yes, the compulsory education sector is very important, but I believe that the fundamental area where this issue starts from is early childhood education. Increasing participation in early childhood education is an area that the Minister should be looking at, and the recent Unicef report pointed us in that direction. It is not just about increased participation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ddb06cb23734ac29cb653f89c7bfcea\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Who was the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f196088c414a436b93b2f17a44aba63d\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let us talk about what the Labour Government did to increase participation in early childhood education. I thank the Minister for the question. Labour provided 20 hours\u2019 free education\u201420 hours\u2019 free early childhood education, which increased participation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee0a1643a0cd46a2a32d16032db0b489\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee0a1643a0cd46a2a32d16032db0b489\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E The speaker on the other side of the Chamber who has just sat down, Sue Moroney, spoke for 10 minutes, and she will be remembered only for saying that education was potentially dangerous. I would have to say that this is a general reflection on the achievements of the Labour Government over the last 9 years. It has escaped Labour\u2019s notice that at the moment we have inherited some major problems. We have nearly a million working-age adults who do not have the literacy and numeracy to be able to partake in a first-class economy, and on that basis Labour wants to destine the coming generations into that same situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EThe parents of our children today want their children to have a brighter future, and that is why on 8 November the parents voted a John Key - led Government in, because they wanted a brighter future. They could see, when they observed the other side of the Chamber here, that Labour was devoid of vision and devoid of any aspiration. Labour dug a big hole through New Zealand, and it wanted to keep New Zealanders in it. So we want to see our sons and daughters aspire, and on that basis I think the Minister of Education, Anne Tolley, is to be commended for bringing this bill into the House. She is a wonderful Minister who has done a lot of work over the last year. She has pulled together the visions, the aspirations, and the experience that is on this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EWhen I hear Heather Roy, Pita Sharples, Allan Peachey, and Anne Tolley speak, I see that the combined wisdom on this side of the House is overwhelming. I am so pleased that I represent Kaik\u014Dura as a parent and a grandparent. I come from a background where my mum and dad never went to school, and on that basis I made a bit of a promise to myself that when I had children I would sit them on my knee, read to them, go to school with them, and be part of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EOne thing that has really been a privilege for me in the last 3 years has been to sit on the Education and Science Committee. I learnt there that nearly 50 percent of schools do not report adequately to the parents. One of the designs of this bill is that teachers and schools report to mums and dads in understandable language. That is incredible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EI support this bill wholeheartedly. I would like to speak for a lot longer on it, but I have been allotted only 3 minutes. I think that time is appropriate, because the wisdom that has been expressed on this side of the Chamber has been overwhelming. But I can say shame, shame, shame on the Labour Party for even considering voting against this bill, especially those two members over there who are former Ministers. Shame on the Labour Party. I support this bill and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022 data-id=\u0022319cd19d76eb4430b323cf22d5ceedf0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022319cd19d76eb4430b323cf22d5ceedf0\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. As I said the other day in my maiden speech, I come here after a 20-year career in education. Eight years ago I was appointed the principal of Kait\u0101ia Intermediate School, which is a low-decile school in the far north of New Zealand with 80 percent M\u0101ori students. At the time, our assessment showed that 4 percent of our students were meeting the benchmark in writing. Over the course of the next 7 years\u2014and I resigned at the end of last year\u2014we were able to demonstrate that over 80 percent of our students were meeting the benchmark. As I said in my maiden speech, gains for students can happen in a very short length of time. Obviously I am really excited to be part of anything and to be able to speak to anything that is based around education and achievement, because, as I said the other day, it is my passion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EHowever, I am severely disappointed in a number of aspects of this bill\u2014in particular, the lack of consultation and the inability for the sector to have input into it. If there had been an opportunity for the sector to have had input into the bill through the select committee process, we would have gained greater support from the sector, but unfortunately that is a bell that cannot be unrung.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EThere is a massive gap in this bill, and the biggest part I saw is that it does not focus on the fact that what makes kids learn is not systems, zones, vouchers, tests, and all those other things; it is teachers. Every student in every class in every school across the country is entitled to an excellent teacher, so there is a massive gap there. Whenever I stand to talk about education in the House, I will always be pushing the point that it is excellent teachers that make kids learn. I remember a conversation I had with the member from T\u0101maki\u2014I think it was last year or the year before\u2014when he said that in his capacity as principal of Rangitoto College he would fly to England in order to recruit great teachers. I think it is commendable that principals would go to such lengths to recruit excellent teachers. If we are going to make a difference, at all, and raise achievement, we need excellent teachers in front of our kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003ESo what does an excellent teacher look like? In my opinion there are three broad skills that an excellent teacher must have. The first skill is that they must engage in and use research-based, best-practice teaching. We have heard examples today about that. Te K\u014Dtahitanga is one example. Another example is Professor John Hattie\u2019s work with formative assessment. For those people who are not aware of what formative assessment is, I tell them that it is simply that teachers, first of all, need to know their subjects. They need to be able to tell their students exactly where they are achieving, and they need to be able to articulate to each child just the very next small step that child needs in order to progress. If that happens every day, then over the course of a year there will be huge gains in achievement. Excellent teachers who engage in research-based best practice will raise achievement. I think that the Government needs to focus on teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EThe second point that I make is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022362fdd1ae2d3474292228d835b73c75b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Standards!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022933ab7a25b55479b8dddf2e6acdddd9f\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: A standard does not teach a child; a teacher does. This is what I was talking about with Te K\u014Dtahitanga. That has proved that a teacher who has excellent relationships not just with the student but with the student\u2019s wh\u0101nau, will increase achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EThe third point is that the curriculum needs to be relevant to students. There is no point having a boring curriculum, or a curriculum that is focused on just trying to meet a narrow standard, and the teacher teaching just to an assessment or a test. That narrow curriculum will not engage students; it will just turn them off. Although standards are superficially attractive, they do not teach kids. The thing that I have spoken about in relation to the education sector is that with the achievement objectives already in the curriculum, we have standards already. If members are not aware of the achievement objectives in the curriculum, I tell them that when a child enters school at year 0 or 1, that child should be working at level 1. By the time the pupil leaves\u2014in an ideal world\u2014in year 13, that pupil should be working at level 8. Each of those levels has a range of achievement objectives that are already spelt out for students to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EThe point is that there is nothing new in this bill that is not already available for teachers to use. Because there is nothing new in this bill I cannot understand or get my head around why we have to rush this through in urgency. I do not understand what will be any different for kids on 5 February 2009 when they turn up to school, because nothing will change. There is nothing new in it, whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EI have spoken about formative assessment, which is really, really important; it is the key. In fact, Professor Hattie says that dollops of feedback are what is most important, and that feedback is the factor that has the greatest effect in raising achievement. Feedback to kids is basically telling them where they are. The next step is feed-forward, where, as I have said, they tell kids the next thing they need to learn. We have to focus on the skill of a teacher\u2014that is what is most important in terms of raising achievement. Just setting up standards and assessment for the sake of assessment will not do anything. I said there is nothing that has not been done before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EI took the liberty of getting Kait\u0101ia Intermediate School to email me the format of the school report we have had for the last 5 years, because we talk in plain English and tell parents exactly where their kids are achieving. In the report I have here the school makes the statement that year 7 pupils should be reading at curriculum level 3 or 4. That is the standard based against the New Zealand curriculum, so the school is telling parents exactly where their child should be achieving. The second thing that is said here is: \u201CShe\u201D\u2014I will not use the child\u2019s name\u2014\u201Cis reading in curriculum level 4P\u201D. That is telling the parents where the child is achieving against the standard where the child should be. The third thing it says is that this is above the New Zealand expectation. The parent knows that their child is achieving above what is expected of New Zealand kids. The fourth thing in this report is that the school tells the parent what the child has learnt. The fifth thing is that the report tells the parent what needs to happen next, and spells out the things that the child needs to learn next. It says that in order to improve, \u201Cthis child and I\u201D\u2014meaning the teacher\u2014\u201Cwill concentrate on the following learning outcomes:\u201D. This is a mid-year report, but in the end-of-year reports the sixth thing it says is that: \u201CThis is the progress the child has made in the 6 months since the last report.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003ESo we are telling parents what the standard is, where the child is achieving, whether the child is above or below the New Zealand expectation, what the child has learnt, what needs to happen next, and the progress made since the last report. This has been going on at Kait\u0101ia Intermediate School for the last 5 years, so I cannot understand why all of a sudden it is a new buzz to be telling parents that they need to hear these things. It is stuff that is already happening, and that is why I cannot understand this bill. To me it is just a rehash, the same old, same old. Because it is not happening in every school, all that needs to happen is for resources to go into organisations, such as advisory services, which have experts going to schools to make sure this sort of thing happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022 data-id=\u00224f5dcfdc3aff4496af8ea6866793f71a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f5dcfdc3aff4496af8ea6866793f71a\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, t\u0113na koutou huri noa i te Whare i tenei p\u014D. I rise to support the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, and I absolutely commend this bill to the House and to every member who purports to be in support of high-level education for all our students. This is outstanding legislation, because it integrates all the players involved in the learning outcomes that students experience. Yes, teachers are important; in fact, they are critical, and research supports that. But they are not the only part of the education system that needs to be involved. Parents need to have an opportunity to be involved. Parents need to understand how well their child is doing in an absolute sense, as well as relative to children who are the same age as them in their school and across the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker, Kelvin Davis, has just given an outstanding example of a school that would respond extremely well to the system we are talking about. Regrettably, according to the Education Review Office report of 2007, fewer than half the schools were reporting the kinds of achievements we are looking for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003ESo yes, we do need a systematic approach, because we need to target which children require what kind of learning investment so they can get the support and the resources they need to achieve the best possible educational outcomes. Through this system, teachers will understand better. I am astonished at what I keep hearing from that side of the House, as if teaching and learning were the only formula to learning outcomes. Assessment is part of teaching and learning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2029ea2848b40f0ae3217255c959f52\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s what you do with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225992de62590e4e62aa03818662e87952\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly the question. Unless teachers understand what the learning experience of the child is by assessment, they are basically guessing at what they should do next in order to assist that student. We want to take guessing out of the game. We want to give every child in New Zealand the opportunity to be successful. Like the previous member, in my maiden speech the other day I talked about the pursuit of quality citizenship and the importance of education in that pursuit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EThis bill ties together all the elements that will make it possible for students to be successful. It helps teachers to focus on what teaching and learning they should be doing; it helps parents to understand how well their child is doing; it helps schools at a school-wide level to understand where they need to be targeting their resources; and it helps the Government to understand where investments need to be made across the country in order to lift the level of achievement for all New Zealanders, rather than just talk about it. As Dr Sharples was trying to point out, fundamentally Te K\u014Dtahitanga respects the student. It attempts to call students by their names, rather than saying \u201CR\u0101kaitem\u0101nia, have you got a nickname?\u201D because they are not capable of addressing that fundamental respect to a M\u0101ori child who has a name that has come from his or her ancestors and is worthy of respect by the teacher, who we have all agreed is so critical in their learning path. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EI absolutely support this. I acknowledge that the Minister is showing leadership here. Why is it in urgency? Because this side of the House believes that educational quality and success by students is an urgent matter. We are showing leadership in bringing it before the House now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002269a53c2fe1cd452ca87b3a3e18b429e9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001058\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 68, Noes 46.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022686bc92af4014f80bf4a90de475bfba9\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022 data-id=\u00220c83a4134cb348d18210c26ed79b822f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c83a4134cb348d18210c26ed79b822f\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. As I stated at the first reading, this bill implements policy changes that this Government has committed to as part of our priority action plan for education. The bill delivers on that commitment by raising the standards of achievement and attendance in compulsory education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EI start by first of all thanking all the speakers who have contributed from this side of the House in support of the first reading of this bill. Also, I particularly want to congratulate Kelvin Davis on his very thoughtful and pertinent contribution. I could not disagree with anything that he said, and I congratulate him on the work he has done with his teachers and his community for the children who have been under his care and guardianship. I think he has done an outstanding job. I ask him why he is so afraid of ensuring that every school throughout New Zealand is doing the sorts of things that he was doing for his community and his children. Why is he so afraid of that? How could he possibly vote against this bill when all it seeks to do is set in place the framework that will ensure that that happens, so that all New Zealand children have the opportunity to be taught by teachers who respect them, who care about their aspirations, and who are prepared to work to those top standards that this bill enables the Minister to set. Why on earth could he not vote for a bill that would enable every child to get that sort of education? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EThe previous Government ignored reality and the Minister ignored his own Education Review Office, which reported that fewer than half of the schools in New Zealand were doing an excellent job like that. More than half the schools were failing to ensure that the children who were under their care had that quality of teaching\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cbd03b8d5df4e1099142dc83fc06186\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Where are the resources? Are you going to put in more resources? How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228925a89b89534042853723cc25fd5b5a\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we have. The former Minister asks me whether we are putting in the resources. In our policy we have said that there is an extra $18 million a year going in to support the teachers once they have identified the children who are not meeting those standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EOne of the speakers from the other side stood up and said that the introduction of national standards is potentially dangerous. We had the old secret agenda out again. Apparently it is potentially dangerous to set standards for children. We heard from Dr Pita Sharples what has happened to M\u0101ori children in this country year after year under that Labour Government. What is so wrong with lifting the sights of those children and setting the standards so that all children have an opportunity to get an excellent education? Why is the Labour Party so afraid of making sure that all children have the opportunity that a good education can give them, and why is the Labour Party so afraid of making sure that parents know what their children are doing, where their children excel, and where they need some extra help? What is wrong with a parent knowing that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EI tell this House tonight that I have been deluged with emails from people since this bill was mooted. I have been deluged with parents saying: \u201CWe cannot get that information about our children from our schools. We want to know what we can do to help our children, and our schools will not tell us. Thank you, Mrs Tolley.\u201D They are saying: \u201CThank you for taking the opportunity under this new Government to be part of the education of our children.\u201D They are grateful because they want the best for their children and they want the opportunity to take part in that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EI again ask the members of the previous Labour Government why they are so afraid of a bill that lifts aspirations for children and includes parents in the educational process. Why is that potentially dangerous for New Zealand children? I think a Labour Opposition that is intent on keeping too many children, and particularly M\u0101ori children, uneducated, illiterate, and innumerate is potentially dangerous for this country. Those members will not accept that there is a need for standards in this country. We are committed to a policy of national standards, but we are also committed to working with the sector to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df9d0efb607c4f10af39279df0b3d2ec\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Why don\u2019t you care what the sector has got to say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ef9084efc254aab92677fdde6b3ecf3\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have been talking with the sector for months about the consultation process that we will go through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EThis bill does nothing more than enable the Minister to set the standards. It does not set the standards; it enables the Minister to set the standards. We have stated that we will go out to people in the sector and consult them about how those standards are set and what they should look like. The literacy progressions are already out there. I have talked to the sector about the literacy progressions, and they are not scary. They set out expectations of what children could and should be learning right throughout their schooling. That is the sort of thing that we are talking about with the sector, because at the moment there are a whole lot of guidelines out there. There is the Literacy Professional Development Project, the targeted achievement for Pasifika programme, and a whole range of different benchmarks out there. Well, this National Government is saying no. We will have one set of national standards that everybody understands that can lift every child and give every child the opportunity to get a good education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EI do not understand how a former Labour Government could vote against that. I do not understand how the member Kelvin Davis, who was a principal, who knows how this works, and who has proved what we can do with children with constant assessment, and by putting support in around individual children, involving the parents, and telling them what they can do and where their children are, could vote against this bill. It does nothing more than allow the Minister to set some standards that are agreed with the sector. I do not understand how he can vote against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EThe second part of this bill is about truancy, and we have not heard much about that tonight. We believe that it is important to send a strong message that if children are not at school, then they cannot learn. A member opposite asked what will happen when the children turn up to school on 4 February. Well, I will tell the member what will happen. If they turn up to school, they will have an opportunity to learn. They will not be truant and, therefore, the truancy part of this bill will not apply to them. But there are children out there who are kept at home by their parents to keep their parents company. There are children out there who are kept at home to look after siblings. There are children out there who are deliberately kept away from school by their parents. Those children are being denied the opportunity of an education, and National is going to make sure we send a strong message that that is not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EEvery child has the right to go to school and get an education, because we know that a good education will lift children out of the poverty that the Green member Metiria Turei spoke so eloquently about. The only opportunity children will get is a good education, and it is unfair if their parents are deliberately keeping them from school, so we will put the fines up for truancy. Let me say this\u2014I want to finish on this. If members think that $3,000 is too big a fine, I say that in this country we have a maximum fine of $3,000 for failing to register a dog. I say that it is more important to send one\u2019s child to school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022 data-id=\u0022098e7630d4a34799abd6681b533f7655\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022098e7630d4a34799abd6681b533f7655\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next speaker, let me just caution members\u2014firstly, about interjections. Members know that they should be rare and reasonable. At times it got close to a barrage of interjections, and I do not believe that is appropriate. Rare and reasonable interjections are fine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003EThe second thing I ask members to desist from is engaging in barrages that go backwards and forwards across the Chamber. They were quite apart from the exchanges with the member who was on her feet. I was reluctant to interrupt her speech, but members need to desist from doing that, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff7c5021b2be4c4390ccf87e6276e318\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff7c5021b2be4c4390ccf87e6276e318\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E This bill is nothing more than a desperate attempt by the new National Government to cover up the fact that it has no new ideas on how to address underachievement in our schools. Those members have no new ideas about how to deal with literacy and numeracy problems. They have no new ideas about how to keep kids in our classrooms. This bill will do absolutely nothing to address those issues. It is completely unnecessary, and it even states that it is unnecessary in the explanatory note of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThis bill will narrowly focus the education system on teaching kids a very, very narrow range of knowledge. The teachers will teach to the test, rather than teaching to the curriculum. It will grow the gap between the achievement rates of students at rich schools and the students at poor schools. This bill is completely unnecessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003ELet me read from page 4 of the explanatory note, which states: \u201CThe Minister of Education can set national standards through the existing provisions of the Education Act \u2026 either by way of the national education guidelines or by regulations. Regulating for this power could achieve the same policy objective as legislating,\u201D. So we are off to a ripper of a start with our red tape reduction! Instead of creating regulations, we are going to create unnecessary legislation. The ACT Party is clearly doing well on its red tape reduction. We have already seen bills rammed through the House with pathetic regulatory impact statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThis bill will give parents no new information. It will give parents no more information than they can already get from teachers if the teachers have the opportunity to talk to them. I draw the attention of the House to the National Education Guidelines; the ones that the Minister seems completely unaware of. Paragraph (iii) of national administration guideline No. 2 states that each board of trustees, with the principal and teaching staff, is required to \u201Creport to students and their parents on the achievement of individual students, and to the school\u2019s community on the achievement of students as a whole and of groups\u201D. So why do we need this bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThe requirement in the national administration guidelines specifically identifies a number of areas, and it specifically requires schools to report on students who are not achieving or who are at risk of not achieving, so the bill is totally unnecessary. It does not increase in any way resources going to the schools or to the teachers. It does nothing to help them. There is absolutely no evidence that setting national standards and forcing primary schools to set exams, which is what this bill will effectively do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224871121ab28c4946be84781fb68f5404\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b70d6102d8ef4e139920edfd0e08cab8\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I would encourage members to read the general policy statement at the front of the bill, which states: \u201CThe changes will require State schools to assess students, and to report the progress of students, against the national standards.\u201D. So this bill is very little more than national testing for primary schoolkids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThe evidence from overseas suggests that national testing does nothing to lift student achievement. In fact, it has a number of detrimental impacts. It encourages teachers to teach to the test\u2014to train pupils to pass the test, rather than to gain any understanding of what they are learning. It means that kids do not develop any higher order thinking skills. And if we want to see any evidence of the impact that has, we need only to look at the benches opposite us. A research review in the UK found that national testing leads pupils to regard learning in terms of passing tests, rather than in terms of gaining any understanding of what they have actually learnt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EI would draw the House\u2019s attention to another publication from overseas\u2014a Demos publication called \u201CBeyond Measure: why educational assessment is failing the test\u201D\u2014which concluded that the assessment system measures recall of knowledge rather than the depth of understanding and that it tests only a narrow section of the curriculum. The report goes on to state: \u201Cthe notion of measuring a cohort of learners as a whole is absurd. We know children mature at different rates. What we need is assessment by demand.\u201D This bill does nothing to increase the support for teachers to do assessment by demand. It does absolutely nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EWhat about the students? What does this bill mean for students? A survey of parents in England, where a similar system is being put in place, found that one in 10\u2014one in 10\u20147-year-old kids was reduced to tears and lost sleep because they were worried about sitting tests. The same survey found that two-thirds of 11-year-olds showed signs of stress in preparing for the tests, with 9 percent suffering from anxiety attacks. And that is what this Government wants to do! In Oldham an 11-year-old was hospitalised for stress because of those tests. How is stressing out primary schoolkids going to do anything to raise standards in our schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E Another report from the UK highlighted the negative consequences of national testing on teachers, including overload and stress. It found that national testing distracted from teachers\u2019 daily classroom performance and contributed to a number of teachers leaving the profession altogether, because national testing does not tell good teachers anything they do not know already. As some of my colleagues have outlined, there are far better tools that could be used instead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EI noticed that Nick Smith has been commenting on it today. He said \u201CI openly concede that the information can be used destructively.\u201D It was Nick Smith who said that. One way it can be used destructively is to develop school league tables. The Minister was quoted in the Dominion Post this morning as saying that that would not happen: \u201CEducation Minister Anne Tolley denied the results could be used to compile league tables, saying the full data obtained would be available only to the Government.\u201D I do not see anything in this bill that repeals the Official Information Act. I see nothing in the bill that repeals the Official Information Act and would stop people from getting hold of the data and using it to compile exactly that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EWe know from past experience that once the data is there, people will get hold of it. In fact, the National Party used to advocate for that data to be released publicly to create league tables. Bill English spent months and months arguing for National Certificate of Educational Achievement league tables to be created using the same kinds of data in secondary schools. This will drive a massive wedge between the rich schools and the poor schools. It will create an incentive for the good teachers to leave the poorer schools and move to the rich schools, or leave altogether. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EWe know that once the Government has this information it will use it to introduce performance pay for teachers. We know that is what the Government wants to do. It wants to introduce performance pay for teachers. It will put them on 90 days\u2019 probation, and it will give teachers the shove at the first available opportunity. [Interruption] Oh, the 90-day period does not affect teachers. Anne Tolley stood up and said that the 90-day period would not affect teachers, and that they will not be covered and they will not be sacked. Well, I have news for Government members, because the bill that they passed does exactly that. So how long will it be before we are back in this House debating performance pay for teachers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThis bill shows that the Government has no new ideas on how to raise student achievement. In fact, the teaching profession knows that and does not want it. Ninety percent of primary school principals surveyed said they did not want it. They are opposed to the National Party policy. Eighty-seven percent of primary school teachers opposed it. Seventy-five percent of high school teachers opposed it. Sixty-nine percent of school boards of trustees opposed the National Party policy. They did not want it. Who wanted it? [Interruption] Why does the member not stand up and take the next call and tell us who wanted it? In fact, those people surveyed do not want the bill rammed through under urgency, either. I quote from the Auckland Secondary School Principals Association: \u201CIt\u2019s a matter of trust, \u2026 When bills are rushed, and the sector is not consulted, it will create a wedge and a sense of suspicion with the Government.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003ENobody wants this bill rammed through. The New Zealand Educational Institute said that it does not want it, because it believes that openness is critical to ensure that any decision on teaching and learning is educationally sound and will lead to increased student achievement. Yet, despite all of the blather from members opposite, we have not heard at all about how this bill will increase student achievement. We have heard nothing from them about how this will increase student achievement. The New Zealand Principals Federation said: \u201CNational testing is such an old-fashioned idea, \u2026 National testing is, quite simply, a backward step.\u201D This bill introduces national testing by any other name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3f0c9f8ef524131bcb9660d6f7fa969\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3f0c9f8ef524131bcb9660d6f7fa969\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E The young member for Rimutaka, Chris Hipkins, should fire his speech-writer, because that speech will come back to haunt him in his time in this House and on the streets of his electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EI take a moment to acknowledge my former colleague Mr Davis. I know Mr Davis to have been a school principal of the highest integrity. I had the great privilege of spending time with him in the far north, visiting the school that he led, and talking to him at great length about the nature of school leadership and how children learn. I can affirm as correct everything he said about the success of that school. I would like to say to that member that in this place it can be very, very difficult for members to retain their integrity in respect of issues like education, but the price they pay for doing so is one that is well worth paying. I would express the hope that within the member\u2019s caucus, the wisdom and the experience\u2014and the common views that we share\u2014will be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EI will address issues raised by the former Minister of Education Mr Mallard. I spent years thinking that the reason the former Prime Minister dumped him as Minister of Education must have been that he jackbooted his way across the country, kicking communities and schools. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe the Prime Minister recognised that his thinking in education was so backward-looking that even she could not retain him in that position, and he demonstrated that backward-thinking tonight to perfection. What did he want to talk about? He talked about progressive achievement tests and national averages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EIn this debate, when we are talking about setting national standards for literacy and numeracy, it is important that we understand very, very clearly some differences. There is assessing a child against a standard, which is what we do now through the National Certificate of Educational Achievement. We tell children \u201CHere is what you need to be able to do, and as many of you as can do that get the standard, and as many of you who cannot do it do not get the standard.\u201D Members who want to keep talking about national averages are more concerned with statistical movements than whether children actually know anything or not. I would have thought that the former Minister would have understood that, but in effect what he said reminds this House of just how far we have to go to make people in this House and in the education sector understand the significance of standards. I am sure the previous Minister of Education knows exactly what I am saying\u2014and now I am referring to Mr Chris Carter, obviously, not to Mr Mallard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EThis is about children who through no fault of their own are not learning to read, write, or do mathematics to the minimum level required for them to find a contributing, positive place in a society and in an economy. Right through the debate today, in my view, there has been insufficient acknowledgment of that fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EI listened with great care to the Green view on all of this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022666a0f2732394a1393a3524926efa4e4\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: No you did not. You didn\u2019t listen to it at all!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cc57a89e3f14c788cfa417d31ba38cb\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I shouted a little bit, and I am sorry about that. There are still parliamentarians representing parties in this House who do not understand that the single most significant driver to get children out of poverty is the quality of education they receive\u2014and the previous Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs sitting opposite will understand that, in terms of the constituency that he represented\u2014and who are still prepared to tolerate, unchallenged, all of these social and economic excuses that adults make, and that children do not need them to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EThe statement in this bill about national standards is the statement of the National Government, supported by our colleagues, that the language around children\u2019s learning and success must change. I am very, very troubled, and I suspect that my former colleague Mr Davis is equally troubled, by the very seriously diminished view of schoolteachers that has been taken by some of the members opposite who have spoken, particularly the young member from Rimutaka. All of this talk about teachers teaching to the test and all the rest of it is, frankly, offensive. People like me have spent 32 years teaching under a secondary school system where we taught youngsters to pass examinations. During the 16-odd years that I headed schools I knew that the performance of the school that I led would be ranked on the front pages of the newspaper in my community, without fail. I had to manage that. That is how it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EIf we listen very, very closely to the arguments members opposite are putting up against national standards, we find that one of the critical things they are saying is, in effect, that we must keep this stuff from parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022688ecf897b9a4e369542cab4403c87e9\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260e85942a4da449ba1d3eb6eafed969d\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Opposition members need to go away and look at just how accessible truthful information about the performance of schools is to parents. One of the great things about having national standards is that there will be a clear standard and parents will know whether they are sending their children to a school where children learn. Members should just remember that this is not about teachers, it is not about educational theory, and it is not about left-wing researchers overseas. It is about our children and their future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022 data-id=\u002202d1dd88473d4ea7a301813dbef0f41b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202d1dd88473d4ea7a301813dbef0f41b\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to speak in the second reading of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. The bill sets out to do two things: it allows the Minister of Education to set national standards for literacy and numeracy, and it requires, I notice, State schools to assess and report students\u2019 performance against those standards. It also requires that fines be imposed on those who refuse to enrol their children at school; there is an extra matter relating to that, as well. So the overall purpose of the bill is to raise standards of achievement and attendance in the compulsory education sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EDuring the election campaign, the public was promised a crusade for literacy and numeracy. Those are strong sentiments, and that is a strong image to project\u2014that there will be a crusade. I will talk a bit more about it in a minute, but, first, I want to say that a crusade is a vigorous, concerted action to promote or eliminate something. It is vigorous, it is concerted, and it is considered, making it more widely acceptable. In this case, the crusade is to eliminate poor achievement in schools, and to eliminate truancy. If this bill is the crusade, then it fails on a number of grounds, and I shall touch on those in my comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EFor the bill to have a good chance to succeed, a good chance of being a crusade, the problem should have been carefully analysed. For a crusade to be well developed, advice should be taken from those with the best information. One should have gone about getting advice from a wide range of sources. And the crusade should include quite a detailed, comprehensive plan, which should be laid out so that one can see it quite easily. Each aspect of the plan of attack of a crusade should be clearly identified and, again, put before us. It should have been designed with some care, then systematically implemented. The crusade that the electorate was promised to eliminate something as important as poor achievement and truancy still has some way to go. I think that if this bill is the crusade, then it has faltered. It is not likely to achieve the high goals that we have been promised or the high goals that are identified in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EIt is also important to understand the assumption on which this particular crusade is based, and I have tried to understand it. I think it goes something like this. There are students in our schools who do not achieve in numeracy and literacy. Well, there is enough research to show that; we cannot argue with it. They do not achieve because\u2014and this is the second part of the logic of this particular bill\u2014we do not have numeracy and literacy standards. Well, OK, that is the logic being followed. The third stage is to set those standards, assess every child against those standards, and report the results to parents, and\u2014voila\u2014our children\u2019s achievement will improve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EWith the greatest of respect, and with all the honesty I can muster, I have to ask: is that it? Is that the crusade? Is that what will get us there? Is that what the electorate was promised? Is this bill strong enough to do it? I shall develop my arguments around that in a minute, but if this bill is all that it takes, then I wonder whether we have understood the very basics of how to construct a question, analyse it, and consider the other factors I have identified. I have to ask whether this bill is the best we can come up with. One can honestly ask whether it is poorly designed policy, given that the very people who will be required to implement it\u2014and this is a serious test of a policy\u2014do not agree with it. If they do not agree with it, then, as members opposite will know\u2014because they have run organisations and done pretty demanding things\u2014all kinds of impediments will be put in the way to confound it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003ELet us look, then, at the major assumption that schools do not teach to achieve particular standards at the moment. The explanatory note of the bill is quite helpful. It tells us that in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d950a11609254c129d5e82d57789d5a5\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not an assumption. There\u2019s an Education Review Office report that says it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226463a14ae8814db980f74feb331efd8a\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am going to quote it. If the Minister listens, she will hear the argument in a minute. In 2007, 14 percent of students left school without achieving the numeracy and literacy credits they needed to attain level 1 of the National Certificate of Educational Achievement. That gives us some idea of the percentage of school students we are talking about. It may be a little more than that\u2014I think National\u2019s figures in the election campaign were 20 percent. It also means that the system we currently have that the Government wants to change is working well for 80 percent of school-leavers. If the system is good for the overwhelming majority of students, why is such radical surgery needed at this stage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f7e547ab20e425b9ff757f722d2599e\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re not assumptions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d813d29be9a4ef884eb207f6c5bb28c\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister will soon follow the argument; it is a carefully constructed one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EAs any business person knows, one must first identify the problem, then look at all the alternative solutions, select the best one\u2014the Minister will soon get it\u2014implement it, and review it. I have serious doubts that that actually happened in this case. I have identified what such a process would reveal. Instead, the Government is ramming through under urgency a set of proposals that, at least in the view of quite of few people, is not likely to achieve the very things the Minister wants to achieve, and might even make matters worse. It might be that the small amount of dollars that is being put aside is gobbled up in just implementing these very proposals. There are plenty of examples of that in social policy, in public policy, and certainly in education policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThe Minister might like to listen to this. I spoke to several teachers today and this is what they told me. These are honest brokers; they are the people who will implement the Minister\u2019s particular programmes. They said they were already reporting to parents, and those reports are based on concrete evidence from the classroom, from the records they keep, and from early numeracy and literacy testing. They are doing what they are required to. The teachers I spoke to today told me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c8ceb33e5242bb9a0ec98e96c2edbd\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: The Education Review Office says they are not all doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0911ff6243e472f8a1630f84084a1f9\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, maybe that is what needs to be fixed. I tell the Minister that one does not use a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. One understands what the problem is, looks at the options, and picks the best one. I know that that is difficult for the Minister, but there is science behind it, and if she uses the science, she will be a better Minister and she will make better decisions. It is not difficult. There are people around to help her to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThe teachers tell us that testing will impose further burdens on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7d277d4279840b7887ad3933bd4abf3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6f8668b6ba44b5aa8102a1684ec62e6\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe the member opposite should speak to some teachers. Maybe some members opposite have; maybe they have spoken to the teachers who teach their children. They should talk to them about what happens. The teachers tell me that they are interested in producing effective children, rather than supporting a system that actually prevents them from doing the very things they want to do. The teachers also told me today that this type of testing can set children up for failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc20b719b65a40b7824096584df143be\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: This isn\u2019t national testing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224259d8336f6c4d72af85f9a232c1e902\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister should at least listen to what the teachers are saying. She has not consulted them; I am sorry, but she has not. If she really believes that, she should send the bill to a select committee and, at least, let us contest it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298061ebcfca444b68b474e57454ea0e1\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edd430b16bcd4a0c8e6dfeedd1f0de94\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: I have read the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThe Minister will want to know about the next point I want to make. If this idea is the best thing around, then why is so much research against it, and why are so many people who know more about this subject than I and the Minister do not happy? Ninety percent of primary school principals surveyed opposed National\u2019s policy, 90 percent of high school principals surveyed opposed this policy, 87 percent of primary school teachers surveyed opposed this particular policy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213f53867fe494e589b4523190dd1ef7d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who did the survey?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022346a820a6cfa4daaabc05b19bc265ef8\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister might like to look at the survey and the methodology\u2014not at who carried it out. That is quite important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228583242f8ef04ebbb07d6394801131ed\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: But look at the question they asked. What about our policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ab99035b69447599824faabcfc7f457\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister knows that the New Zealand Council for Educational Research is a reputable organisation with good methods. If the Minister would like to question them, she should make a statement about that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u002205f1339d31d14164852251606bf88d84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205f1339d31d14164852251606bf88d84\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I have been quite interested in the genesis of this policy, which comes from national standards. It has been very interesting listening to, especially, Allan Peachey talk about it in the context of the US and the 2001 No Child Left Behind Act, which was part of the Bush administration\u2019s major educational reforms. I will talk about those, especially in the context of the policy and how it impacts on disparities in education. I will talk particularly about the gaps between what in the US would be described as black and white populations, and about the way in which such reforms might impact here on M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 populations and the difference in educational achievement between the two. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ENormally, of course, in a second reading speech we would be talking about the submitters who had come to the select committee to tell us about their experiences with regard to the legislation and their views of it. Just as an aside, I have always enjoyed that part of the select committee process. It is the most valuable and probably the single most democratic process that this Parliament has\u2014the opportunity for direct engagement by the public with MPs, where people can tell us about their experiences and about the way they think the legislation will affect them. I find that process extremely valuable, and I think it is disgraceful that legislation of such import as this Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill has not gone to the public. We have not had families, the Secondary Principals Association, teachers, unionists, the Post Primary Teachers Association, or even school students tell us how they think this bill will impact on them. They are the ones, of course, who are affected by it. But I guess we might expect more of this from National\u2014the secret, rapid passage of legislation and policy that is actually based on ideology, and I will go through that now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 introduced standards and testing in US schools, along with a whole range of Draconian measures\u2014which National has not yet implemented, but we will wait and see. For example, schools that fail to reach the target standards and tests have a graduated level of punishments inflicted against them. In some circumstances they might be required to transfer or provide for the transfer of students from their school to another school, to replace teaching staff, or to remove or to decrease management in their schools if they did not meet the standards. Schools that fail to meet the standards can even be required to turn over their school administration to private companies, which would then be able to run their schools for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThis is the part of the No Child Left Behind legislation based on the standards and testing regime. Because that policy has been in place for some time there has been quite a lot of analysis of its impacts. In particular, I just point members to two reports. One is \u201CExacerbating inequality: the failed promise of the No Child Left Behind Act\u201D, which was produced in a race and ethnicity education publication. There was another one, \u201CTesting and Social Stratification in American Education\u201D, and I will just look at some of that analysis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe research done on the policy found, for example, that urban schools\u2014predominantly poor schools and predominantly black schools\u2014suffered the most from the policy, suffered the most in terms of punishment as a result of failing to meet the test, and had, therefore, the graduated levels of punishment enacted against them. There was a real concern that the standardised testing was unreliable, had major negative consequences, and was highly politicised. I think it is worthwhile remembering that with the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, the Minister has the right to define these tests and standards, so it is a politicised process or standards test, whichever way the Minister wants to spin it. The fact is that it will be a politicised process here, just as it is in the US. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe testing and standards regime set a benchmark so that even the schools that were demonstrably improving over time were still considered to be failures and, therefore, they suffered the consequences. That then impinged on their ability to keep on improving over time. So those schools that were trying to do better were being punished for their success at trying to do better, to the point where many of them failed completely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThere was an obvious correlation between the test scores and income. This system did not remove the disparities between test scores of the poor or low-income families and more wealthier families. In particular\u2014and I note this for the benefit of the M\u0101ori Party, which is considering supporting this legislation\u2014the research has proved that the testing and standardised regime resulted in fewer students of colour and fewer students with disabilities completing high school. The dropout rate for the students of colour and students who had some form of disadvantage, if you like, increased by 17 percent in just 2 years after this legislation was passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ETeachers were required, in effect, to teach to the test, and there has been some discussion of that with regard to this bill. Even in coloured schools, poorer schools, and urban schools where there was an attempt to teach to a much higher level of achievement, the teachers had to teach to the test to make sure that their kids would get through it. So instead of having a more expansive and intuitive form of learning and teaching between teachers and kids, teachers were forced to teach those children how to write five-paragraph essays so that they would meet the requirements of the standardised test. This led to a downgrading in the achievement levels and the downgrading of the quality of teaching of those kids, particularly those from the poorest and the most discriminated against communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EMany schools had to reduce the resources for non-tested subjects and divert those resources into the subjects that were being tested in order to help make sure that their kids would reach those standards. Children for whom the standards or that area of learning was not their strong point and was not where they had their talent were then discriminated against, because the schools had to divert resources away from other areas. Those children lost out in the process because the test took over from what was best for those students. I remind members that this research has been done on this policy over many years, and members will have access to it when I table these papers soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe other consequence\u2014and we have seen it here in New Zealand with some schools\u2014is that academically weak students were forced out of school or were kept back in their classes until the school determined that they were more likely to pass. That has happened here. I think that was what happened in Cambridge, and there have been other places where it has happened, too. In fact, it still happens in secondary schools where schools will not allow students to sit exams if they do not think they will meet the high standards the school sets in order to keep those schools high up on what is the New Zealand version of the league tables. The dropout rate for the students who needed the most help to succeed and to pass the tests increased, as well. There was a higher dropout rate for the students who needed the most help and who were the most disadvantaged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI repeat for the benefit of the M\u0101ori Party that in relation to the situation in New Zealand, we are talking about the poorest students from low-decile communities. They are predominately M\u0101ori and Pacific Island students, and they often have special needs because lower-decile schools have a higher ratio of special needs children than high-decile schools. They will be the kids for whom the policy fails, and the research proves it. This policy increases the difference and discrimination disparity between those communities. It focuses advantages and privileges on wealthier kids in wealthier schools, and it discriminates against poorer kids, M\u0101ori kids, and poorer schools. The research has proved this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s policy is ideological. That is why it has not taken it out to the public. It really does not want there to be any real scrutiny of this analysis at all, because this kind of research, which proves, shows, and demonstrates the failure of this policy in other jurisdictions, would come to light in the public eye here. Parents would know about it. The teachers in schools would know about it. They would know that this policy is a failure and that it is an ideological approach, not one based on proper evidence, proper science, and proper research about what works best for the children at the bottom end. This policy will push our M\u0101ori kids who are at the bottom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI find the Minister\u2019s condescending, sycophantic description about how fabulous National will be for M\u0101ori students absolutely sickening, when the policies and the law it has passed in the last few days absolutely discriminates against them. This keeps them poor, keeps them in jail, keeps them out of work, and keeps them out of school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022 data-id=\u00220aa4799058364d189dd6f8dc414eb2b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220aa4799058364d189dd6f8dc414eb2b0\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to speak to the second reading of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. That was another interesting contribution from the Green member. It seems to have completely escaped her that the ACT Party and the National Party campaigned strongly on education, and that was probably one of the main reasons the majority of people in this country voted for a change of Government. That fact seems to have escaped her completely. I am pleased the member mentioned No Child Left Behind, because that is exactly what we should be aiming for in this country\u2014no child left behind. In fact, we should accept nothing less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EThe Opposition clearly feels very threatened by the thought of national standards in literacy and numeracy. All we have heard is attack, attack, attack about national standards, but we have heard nothing about the first part of this bill, which is also very important in relation to school enrolment and attendance. All that Opposition members are focusing on is national standards, because they know that it is the right thing to do. Shame on them for standing up, member after member, and not supporting this initiative! Shame on them! Why are they doing it? Because they fear that it will show that we have an education system that is letting our children down. That is the problem for them\u2014fear that it will show up the last 9 years as a complete failure for the education system in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228224f203f36349d68e3cffad5208b095\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What a pathetic joke!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228357e556e175474481b5e6c0eb7912f2\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: We have had a prescription in the last 9 years. They might joke about it, but we have had a failed prescription for the last 9 years that has not worked. The current education system, which is about to be radically changed, is failing far too many of our children. Although it can be quite good for the academically able\u2014those who will do pretty well, no matter what\u2014many children are not learning even the basics and are achieving poor qualifications or, frequently, no qualifications at all. We should not be happy or content to let this situation continue. Despite rising expenditure, New Zealand\u2019s education standards are falling and we have now been overtaken by other developed countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221436743f72674770b476ffb67b3072f5\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What nonsense!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc7adeb27b984240b9d6cfa9488d1b4e\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Carter should try reading the literature. The worst-performing schools are in the poorest areas, and parents have limited choice as to the schools they send their children to. Too much is spent on the bloated bureaucracy when it could be spent on schools and on educating children at the front line. Teacher morale is low and many secondary schools suffer poor discipline. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EWhat we should be striving for is equality. Every single child in New Zealand, regardless of family income, should have the right to a quality education. No child should be left behind just because of where he or she lives or because of the parents\u2019 financial position. Education is first, last, and always about children. It is not about the Government or bureaucrats. We need to increase the role of parents and decrease the role of Wellington. That is the commitment I see from the National Party, and that is the commitment the ACT Party brings to the incoming Government. Parents have the right to send their children to the school of their choice. After all, it is their money, paid in their taxes, and their children\u2019s futures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EHere is what ACT wants for all Kiwi kids in terms of education. It will be universal. All school students will get State funding. All schools will be held to account for the success of their students through an assessment system that is objective and transparent, and that is what this legislation is about. That is why it is important that it is put in place as quickly as possible. There will be choice. Under ACT, parents will be free to choose a school that best fits the needs of their children. It will not matter whether the school is public or private. ACT\u2019s policy will allow diversity in education. It will encourage; it will not stymie, hinder, and put up road blocks. It will encourage different kinds of schools and new kinds of teaching. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EWe will abolish the excessively bureaucratic system of classifying and funding schools according to their character and who owns them. That is not important. We want to see funding of all schools on the same formula, and we will give them greater freedom to develop special characteristics. These are the discussions we should be having about education in this country. We should not be having discussions about who owns the school. We believe in diversity and we reject the one-size-fits-all approach to education, as does every party on this side of the House. [Interruption] Our critics, these people over here, should stand up and take a call. Our critics prefer State monopoly and State control to parental choice and diversity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022108d98eb42334cd388e1dccdfdd78722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292dd99a5c8454824a37ae05c349cd9a6\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise to the member for interrupting her speech. The reason I have done so is that she has made a series of policy statements, using the word \u201Cour\u201D\u2014our position, etc. I am not sure whether she is giving a position of the new National - ACT - United Future - M\u0101ori Party Government, or whether she is giving the position of the ACT Party. Through you, Mr Assistant Speaker, I suggest that it would be helpful for order if she would tell us that, for, indeed, if it is the former we are in some trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236ea4c59c5384094b7c3e6a75b84defd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The point Mr Hodgson has raised is a pure debating point. He is destructively breaking up a very good speech from Heather Roy, and I think you should discipline the member for disrupting a speech in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022414246bb564044abb3f7ded6ab92e599\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I would say to the honourable member who has just made the point that if the Speaker disciplined every member who raised a point of order that was not a point of order, there would be an awful lot of discipline in this House. The member, though, is correct. It was a political point. It is a debating matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e5f200346094fdd81f22a623eb54953\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: The member who made the point of order in the first instance clearly was not listening when I said: \u201CHere\u2019s what ACT wants to do for all Kiwi kids.\u201D If he had listened a little more carefully he would have heard that from the start. But we have a Government now that is prepared to think, that is prepared to look broadly for solutions to problems that exist\u2014problems that have been caused by 9 years under the Opposition when it was in Government\u2014and that is prepared to listen and think broadly about solutions to advantage the children in this country. Now the Opposition is rejecting striving for excellence, rejecting expectations, and rejecting having standards as a measuring tool so that parents know how their children are doing\u2014as they ought to be able to expect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EThe Labour member Kelvin Davis actually made a very good contribution earlier, I felt, and several people on this side of the House have mentioned that. He talked about excellent teachers raising achievement, and he is absolutely correct. He mentioned a whole number of initiatives that are very important\u2014things that members will routinely hear from speakers on this of the House\u2014and I would like to congratulate him on those comments. But I am sad he came to an absolutely bizarre conclusion after putting forward those very good points. I look forward to the member making some useful contributions on education, but the conclusions he came to bore absolutely no relationship to the comment that he had made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EI would say to the member that it is not a situation of \u201Ceither/or\u201D; we should be striving for excellent teachers to raise education standards and achievement at the same time as encouraging excellence in teaching. The two are not mutually exclusive; it is not \u201Ceither/or\u201D, it is \u201Cboth/and\u201D, I say to Mr Davis. I want to keep hearing that sort of initiative from his side of the House, because that is the sort of thing that can further education and achievement in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EThe Hon Bill English\u2019s first reading speech made some very good comments about expectations, and this is what this bill is all about: it is about having the right sorts of expectations for our children in education. When we expect excellence, when we expect every child to achieve to the best of his or her ability, we will actually have excellent teachers, excellent standards, excellent schools, and excellent education in this country. So how do we meet these expectations? ACT believes they can be met with school choice. I say to Mr Hodgson that the ACT Party is supporting the National Party\u2014just in case in two sentences\u2019 time he has forgotten I said the word \u201CACT\u201D and worries about where this initiative might be coming from. ACT believes that the expectations can be met with school choice. We campaigned strongly on this, and it played a large part in our negotiations, which resulted in the National-ACT confidence and supply agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EWe are pleased that National has stated that it will work over time to increase the educational choices available to parents and pupils so that families have more freedom to select schooling options that best meet the individual needs of their children. We look forward to the setting up of the inter-party working-group, which will be resourced as necessary to consider and report on policy options relating to the funding and regulation of schools, which will increase parental choice and school autonomy. This bill we are debating tonight is a great start in that process, and I welcome this initiative that has been brought to the House tonight by the National Party. The ACT Party will be supporting it through its entire course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022 data-id=\u00223e8f47f6063f42f8b7cee284f58c8b1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e8f47f6063f42f8b7cee284f58c8b1d\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau katoa. E te uri o Te Tai Tokerau, ka nui te mihi ki a koe. Tautoko i ng\u0101 mihi, ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a \u0113nei ki a koe ehara, w\u0101u k\u014Drero he tika tonu me k\u012B te ngako o \u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero. N\u014D reira, ka nui te mihi ki a koe, otir\u0101, ki a t\u0101tau i t\u0113nei p\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, and to all of us. Much admiration to you, the relative from Te Tai Tokerau. I endorse the accolades and comments expressed by these ones to you. My word, what you said, at least the nub of it, was on the mark. Therefore, much admiration to you, and indeed to us tonight.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe concept of setting standards\u2014high standards\u2014is something that is expressed in many whakatau\u0101k\u012B M\u0101ori: \u201CKo te manu kai i te miro, n\u014Dna te ng\u0101here. Ko te manu kai i te m\u0101tauranga, n\u014Dna te ao\u2014the bird that eats the miro berry can claim the forest, but the bird that eats, or feasts on, education can claim the world.\u201D And there are others, of course. I believe that it was a theme that was referred to in the House just recently by my colleague Hekia Parata in her maiden speech. The aspiration, of course, is pretty easy, but it is of no use if there is educational system failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EIn 2006 more than 10,000 16-year-olds did not achieve minimum requirements in literacy and numeracy. Is that a standard that we can feel proud of as a nation? I do not think so. For M\u0101ori, 40 percent of our tamariki, by the end of year 11, and 44 percent of Pasifika students did not meet the literacy and numeracy requirements of year 11. Can we feel proud of that national standard? Hell, no! What are we doing so wrong? More to the point, what are we doing so right for other students\u2014namely, 76 percent of Asian students and 79 percent of P\u0101keh\u0101 who did meet the literacy and numeracy requirements for level 1? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThis bill cannot remedy these institutional and longstanding inequalities in its mere three pages, but perhaps it is a kick-start to the conversation. This bill will enable the Minister of Education to set national standards in literacy and numeracy and then assess standards against them. The M\u0101ori Party suggests that the real test for us would be if the Minister of Education were able to assess the competency of schools themselves to respond to the unique and distinctive needs of their student population. The research by Professor Russell Bishop, which resulted in the K\u014Dtahitanga project, suggests that there is a lot to do here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EIn the M\u0101ori Party policy document He Aha te Mea Nui? our priority is both to help young people to succeed and to improve the performances of schools. We want to ensure that the public be provided with better information on school performance, including M\u0101ori and Pasifika achievement. To do that, we suggest there are specific and tangible steps that the Government can take. The Government could support professional development for teachers, particularly around the notions of cultural competency. The Government could invest in key support staff such as those focused on improving levels of literacy and numeracy. The Government could establish incentives that reward schools\u2019 success and innovation in reducing underachievement and disengagement. The Government could invest in mobile literacy and numeracy services that can reach children, parents, and wh\u0101nau in rural areas. These are just a few of the many ideas that the M\u0101ori Party\u2014the awesome M\u0101ori Party\u2014will be willing to contribute to the education portfolio with the appointment of Dr Pita Sharples as Associate Minister, along with the honourable Minister Anne Tolley. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EOur ideas actually dovetail quite nicely with the recommendations presented in the report that the Education and Science Committee released to the House in February of this year. So they should. That inquiry lasted almost 2 years and I was pleased to be a part of that committee when we had a cross-party inquiry into making the schooling system work for every child. There are a whole host of recommendations that are useful in the context of raising standards of achievement in the compulsory education sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EAn interesting observation of that report was the comment that teachers have plenty of suitable assessment tools at their disposal but that the schooling system as a whole is not using the huge potential of these tools to support programmes to improve student achievement. Our report recommended that more resources be devoted to the provision of comprehensive professional development in assessment practice so that by 2010 all schools have experienced appropriate training in the collection and use of assessment data. The committee believed that this would make a considerable difference to student achievement, particularly among the so-called long tail of underachievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe crucial thing is our estimation that not just the right assessment tools are used and teachers are supported with appropriate professional development but also assessments are reported to wh\u0101nau. Wh\u0101nau need to know where their children are. Such information is not to label tamariki but simply to assist in showing them that they may need assistance or that they may be doing very well. The gathering of evidence would also hold schools to account, and the monitoring and reporting of achievement of M\u0101ori students is a policy statement that we intend to follow up over the next 3 years in our agreement with the National Government. Schools simply having information and not using it, and not being accountable for a lack of strategy to lift student achievement, must be considered in the near future. Having around half of young M\u0101ori men and women not achieving at least one single qualification before they leave school should no longer be tolerated, and the M\u0101ori Party intends to work cooperatively with the Minister to address this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EAlthough we are generally happy with the focus on national standards in literacy and numeracy, I have to say we are concerned about the other set of changes proposed in the bill, to do with truancy levels. Truancy rates have, for many years now, been highest among M\u0101ori and Pasifika students, yet the problem continues to be ignored, despite the inevitable disruption to learning that high truancy rates must create for M\u0101ori and Pasifika students. The implications of truancy are not associated just with underachievement. Several of our submitters, such as Family Court Judge Becroft, and others, emphasise that many of those presented to the court were illiterate, among other things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003ESo we agree absolutely that something must be done, but does that mean slapping a fine on those people, hoping that increased fines will lower rates of truancy? We do not think so. There is no evidence to suggest that hefty fines will lead directly to improved attendance rates. The bill raises the level of fines imposed on parents who fail to enrol their child at school, or who fail to ensure that their child attends school once enrolled. It also allows the Secretary for Education to prosecute parents for those actions. It doubles the daily rates of fines for non-attendance to $30 a day. It doubles the fine for first-time non-attendance offences from a maximum of $150 to $300, and it trebles the fine for parents who fail to enrol their child at school, from a maximum of $1,000 to a maximum of $3,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThat is tough. The thing is, will bombarding parents with fines make a difference? We say no. The parents whom we are likely to be talking about, again, according to the evidence in the select committee report, are those who suffer from issues of poverty. Hitting them with a fine will, we believe, do little. In the United Kingdom the annual report of Christine Gilbert, Her Majesty\u2019s Chief Inspector of Schools, grappled with many of those same issues around non-attendance and rates of educational attainment. The 2007-08 report indicated a number of circumstances for individual institutions and providers from which improvements may emerge. They included, firstly, leadership with a clear and ambitious direction for change; secondly, objective, open, reflective self-evaluation of strengths and weaknesses; and, thirdly, dialogue and feedback to ensure that needs are being met in a culture of excellence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EIt can be done; all it takes is a vision for excellence. We do support the need for national standards. There should be reporting back to wh\u0101nau; schools should be held to account. We do not agree that increased penalties will promote wh\u0101nau engagement in schools and increase attendance rates. To that end our preference is that the changes proposed to address truancy levels could be separated out from the bulk of the bill and treated differently. We have tabled a Supplementary Order Paper for the Committee to consider, and we believe that it might address this issue. With those words, kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022 data-id=\u00228eef257546bf4d5bbf6f356509d0e841\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228eef257546bf4d5bbf6f356509d0e841\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I congratulate the new Minister of Education on introducing to the House a bill that I think will have a greater positive impact on the challenges facing our nation than probably any other issue that we will consider in the course of the next 3 years of this term of Parliament. This Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill is a litmus test as to whether members of this House are prepared to sit silently by and see one in five of New Zealand children fail basic literacy and numeracy, and whether we are prepared to take seriously a 50 percent increase in the number of students who are truanting from our schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ce4bb10648542e9930ddad57df1d62a\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6f07c5ed1f949f091ef75ad9ef8570b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think, in all honesty, there is a member of this House, I say to Chris Carter, who can put hand on heart and say that the long tail of underachievement shown up in every piece of educational research on our schools is not a serious issue for our nation. I do not think that even Chris Carter, who is interjecting, in his heart of hearts really believes that that is an issue we should not be concerned about. So the question we as parliamentarians need to ask is what we should do. The truth is that it is not members of this House who stand up the front of classrooms each day and do the really important job of teaching our students, but we have to ask what we can do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EI believe in a very simple principle, not just in education but in other areas as well, and that is that we manage what we measure. If we are serious about lifting educational standards, then we should be prepared to measure them. I reflect on one of the really hot debates in this Parliament in the 1990s, which was about the issue of financial performance. This country had a disgraceful record in the management of public finances. One of the reasons was that we did not honestly report the state of our public finances. I was proud to be part of the National Government that passed the Fiscal Responsibility Act, which required independent, honest reporting of our public finances. That Act resulted in the years since in a substantial improvement in the state of our public finances. I say that education needs the same honest reporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EOther countries have grappled with the same issues. Some countries that have been concerned about their literacy and numeracy standards have passed legislation that prescribes how teachers should teach. Some countries have passed laws\u2014we have even had such a bill in this House\u2014that require teachers to teach by phonics. Well, this Government does not agree with that. I will tell members why. We trust the professionalism of teachers, and it is not for this Parliament to prescribe how teachers should teacher\u2014whether teachers should use phonics or whole language, or any of the many other, proper educational debates amongst the professionals. Other Parliaments around the world have prescribed the number of hours that schools should spend on teaching literacy and numeracy. The United Kingdom prescribes that teachers spend 2 hours on it; in other countries it is 2 hours and 30 minutes. Again, Anne Tolley and this Government say that, no, that is not the right approach. This bill says that we do not mind how teachers teach\u2014whether it is phonics or whole language, whether it is for 2 hours a day or 2 hours and 30 minutes a day\u2014but they do need to meet a national standard. I am proud to be a part of a Government that is prepared to say just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003ELet us look at some of the arguments\u2014or I should say \u201Cexcuses\u201D\u2014that have been put forward by the Labour Opposition, because they speak volumes about the difference between Labour\u2019s values and the values that are held by this Government. I was very interested to hear the new member Mr Prasad say we should not introduce this measure unless teachers agree. Are we really so lacking in leadership, so prepared to let down the children of this country, that unless every teacher agrees, we are prepared to sit by, fail the leadership test, and not set the standard? I say to Mr Prasad that the responsibility of this Parliament is not to the teachers of this land but to the young people\u2014the students, the children. I tell Mr Prasad that they are the ones to whom we owe our first responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EThe problem for the Labour Party is that it is captured by the teacher unions. That is one of the reasons why, over the last 9 years, we have gone backwards in education. Labour members are more interested in serving the needs of their mates in the teacher unions than in doing what is right for the children of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EI come to the point that was raised by the member who said that the provisions in this bill are wrong in that they give the Minister the power to prescribe national standards. What a facetious argument! Why did Labour members support an Education Act that allowed the Minister of Education to prescribe the full curriculum? They say it is OK to prescribe the whole curriculum but not OK to prescribe national standards of literacy and numeracy. What a pathetic argument!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EThen we heard the arguments in opposition to the issue of assessment. I ask members opposite what their answer is to the report from the Education Review Office that 58 percent of schools in New Zealand are not providing for assessment. What is their answer? I will tell members what their answer was. After 9 years, the answer we got from the Minister of Education, Chris Carter, was the \u201CWassup!\u201D badge. Well, the new Minister of Education wants more for the children of New Zealand than a \u201CWassup!\u201D badge, and members on this side of the House are proud to back her up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EI want to bring this debate back to the very practical experience of a constituent who came to see me in my electorate caravan. Her child had just gone on to secondary school, to Nelson College. She was horrified to learn that her son had been put on a reading recovery programme. She brought to my constituency clinic every school record\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a55182b50aa4a958c102fab3f4e1a70\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: School report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265b92a8735ad4df8a4ad10b7da70cd39\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014school report that she had received over the last 5 years. None of those school reports gave that parent any indication that her child was falling behind. I simply say to the members opposite that we need transparent reporting of school results. I say to members opposite that providing parents with honest reports on how well their children are doing is just what they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003EThe last point I want to make in this debate is that it is interesting that not one Labour member has been prepared to talk about the truancy provisions in this bill. I will tell members why. It is because they are embarrassed by their track record. The last 9 years have seen truancy rates in this country go through the roof, and they are embarrassed and ashamed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243bd3be4abcb4ab7ade45adfe92080ae\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b009936cd494244b9e2af376a75f1e0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to members that when I call a point of order I expect there to be order, and I expect members to let the person who is raising the point of order to have his or her say. I do not expect there to be an increase in the barracking from both sides of the Chamber. Let us have some order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273d6f61cb1b747dfb573a9d3e092643d\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: The member Nick Smith in his usual extravagant and outrageous manner has just claimed that none of the members on this side of the Chamber talked about truancy. I myself did, as did Dr Prasad and others. Mr Smith again is not telling the truth in the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae80726d53184861a70c311b15406875\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order; that is a debating point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de5a5fc1edab47619b0c3689fc63dc08\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I note that no Labour member has debated at any length the truancy provisions in this bill. Chris Carter should hang his head in shame. He should hang his head in shame, because during his watch thousands of New Zealand young people who should have been in school receiving an education were not there, and he did nothing. The fact that Labour continues to have him as its education spokesperson shows that it is soft on standards, soft on truancy, and an apologist for failure. I am proud to back Anne Tolley and national standards, which will make a difference for this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022 data-id=\u002276e140f057dc4866bf213fda741b24c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276e140f057dc4866bf213fda741b24c3\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I congratulate the National Government, and I call on my colleagues not to be quite so harsh on them because they are on a literacy crusade. I think I am on a crusade to give credit where credit is due. This is a kind of turbocharging of education in the first 100 days, and education is very important\u2014there is no argument from this side of the House that it is not important. We can listen to all the maiden speeches; I think every one of us so far has talked about how education is the most important thing we can do as a nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EMoreover, the members on that side of the aisle are right to focus on the problem of underachievement. In spite of the very creditable performance of our young people in the OECD rankings in science, literacy, and maths, the so-called long tail of underachievement is one of the major challenges this country faces. About that there is, I hope, no disagreement on our side of the aisle. So I congratulate the National Government for focusing on an extremely important issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EHowever, it is not enough to identify the problem. It is not enough to campaign up and down the country spreading fear and anxiety. The members opposite are in the Government now, and they need something more than slogans and fearmongering. They need good, sound, practical ideas that can be turned into policy and law, but I have to say that at this point the National Government falls down rather badly. It is sad to say it, but I would have thought that 9 years was long enough to come up with better ideas than are contained in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EWhat is the National Government\u2019s response to this problem of underachievement? It is national educational standards. On the surface that is an interesting idea. We all want standards, right? But let us think about this. There is no point having standards unless we test. Otherwise, how do we know whether we are reaching those standards? What we are really talking about here, if we are honest, is standardised testing. That is the conceptual basis of this bill. The National Party has pulled a page from George W Bush\u2019s playbook and his No Child Left Behind Act policy, as Metiria Turei has explained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294ad24250d5b4cc49ab7fa54d3c61c09\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022307aed24ab83489da31cf71d1218db50\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Saviour of the free world!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284b73b27fb6d4ac1a2ad69207eddd0e2\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Paul Quinn that standardised testing is the tired old clich\u00E9 policy of conservative politicians all around the world. This bill is a Trojan Horse for standardised testing. I will say more about standardised testing, but first let me make some other comments. There is a very interesting thing about this bill: it does not actually do anything. It is the National Party\u2019s idea of virtual Government. It is very modern, it is like a hologram, it looks real, and it gives the appearance of substance, but in fact there is nothing there; it is a complete illusion. In this respect it bears an uncanny resemblance to the dreary bail bill that we spent the afternoon discussing. It is campaign rhetoric in drag. It does not introduce anything new, it does not provide any resources for literacy programmes, and actually it acknowledges\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294ad24250d5b4cc49ab7fa54d3c61c09\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b74bc57106f940e7b62ff28842d772b3\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: They won\u2019t like that in Mt Albert.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219b6367018eb415e8f6635c7dc42cd03\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It acknowledges\u2014I say to Mr Quinn\u2014that some very effective assessment tools are already at work in our schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EThis policy caused quite some confusion on the campaign trail. At a candidate debate in Devonport, my opponent, the honourable member for North Shore, was asked by a very nice woman in the audience whether National would introduce standardised testing. He said that, no, they would have assessment. She asked what the difference was. I have to tell members that there was a lot of huffing and puffing but not much light shed on the issue. I had some sympathy for my opponent, the member for North Shore. It is not surprising that he found it difficult to explain the difference because, after all, how does one assess without testing? Assessment is simply another kind of testing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EI was talking recently with a literacy and numeracy specialist who works at a school in Auckland. She said that the real question about this debate asks why we are testing. What is the purpose? Is it so we can improve the quality of teaching and learning, or is it so the school can publish league tables and market itself as being better than the school down the road? I think that that comment was very perceptive. The bill, in fact, requires State schools to assess and report student performance against national standards. This will inevitably lead to the establishment of league tables of winner and loser schools, and compound the challenges that lower-decile schools are already struggling with. That is exactly what has happened under standardised testing regimes in the UK and the US. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EI lived for 4 years in the United States, which is a happy hunting ground for standardised testing regimes. My son was 9 years old, and in middle school in Maryland. He did four different sets of exams every year, and all the teachers and all the parents complained that all they had time to do in the academic year was prepare for an endless round of exams and testing. After 6 years of George W Bush\u2019s No Child Left Behind policy, one commentator at the National Center for Fair and Open Testing said there was overwhelming evidence that the law was deeply flawed and doing more harm than good. It relies on \u201Climited one-size-fits-all tools\u201D that \u201Creduce education to little more than test prep.\u201D We hear exactly the same story in the United Kingdom. Introducing national standards and making schools accountable sounds good on a bumper sticker. It is very much like ACT\u2019s \u201Cthree strikes and you\u2019re out\u201D policy, or the Bail Bill that we discussed this afternoon. It looks good on a bumper sticker, but it is not really based on sound policy, is it\u2014is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220435818addd54a0b962606a538d84b64\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s your answer? Give us an answer. Give us a policy. Give us a single idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220540b428a5a5409bbd943292aeeec7dd\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: If this is the rigour, the innovation, and the depth that the National Government will bring to education policy, the children of New Zealand should be very afraid, I say to Mr Smith\u2014very afraid. [Interruption] Standardised testing, I say to Mrs Parata, is against fairness, it is against accuracy, and it is against quality. I will tell members why. For decades, educationalists have complained that standardised tests are unfair because the questions so often require a set of knowledge and skills that is likely to be possessed only by children who come from a privileged background. And the member should know that. Can members guess which kinds of children are best able to prepare for the tests? Can members tell me? It is the kids who come from privileged families who are best able to prepare for those tests. The quality of teaching suffers inevitably. Testing encourages the temporary acquisition of skills and information\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258cb378100704219bb4627ad3443ec31\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This bill is about national standards. It has nothing to do with national testing. I ask you to remind the member on his feet to speak to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a73ded2ad7564c7fb6da6d4a9520f7f0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. It is a debating point, and the member knows that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298f05aeda42e4a29a80534762d24fa28\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The so-called long tail of underachievement is indeed a very serious problem, and it is one that I do not doubt that every member of this House, on both sides of the aisle, cares about. But this bill has nothing to offer. It is all sizzle and no sausage. It does not introduce anything new\u2014actually, it recognises explicitly that effective assessment tools are already at work in our schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cab753765164480a0ed49673a4ebf6e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Half of them aren\u2019t doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d655bbc5ab74fcbbcad7fbf3589e882\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: But, worse than that, I say to Mr Smith, the bill is based on shonky educational theory. It dignifies the concept of standardised testing as a valid educational tool for children as young as 5 years old, and it lays the groundwork for a National Government to impose national standardised testing on our schools. And that is the objection I have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003EFinally, the National Party has been dining out for months\u2014actually, years\u2014on a line it got from Crosby/Textor about the nanny State. This bill demonstrates how shallow that rhetoric is. This bill is about the governess State. Do members know what? It is the National Government wanting to impose Victorian values of education on our children. It flies in the face of international best practice and everything we know about personalised learning. Next, the members on the other side of the aisle will have us lining up in the classrooms, rote learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022 data-id=\u0022f83bf5dcc760474ba140e73ce0101df1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f83bf5dcc760474ba140e73ce0101df1\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E The Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill is very interesting. It is an enabling bill, because it gives the Minister the ability to establish national standards. We can look at the explanatory note of the bill. For the benefit of members on the other side of the Chamber, I will try to talk quite calmly so that we do not excite them and waken them from their numbing sleep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EIf we rely on regulation, we will stay where we are. We find, when we look at the Education Review Office reports, that there is considerable inconsistency. We have heard from the fine member sitting in the back corner what a good school is doing. We know that that is just so incredible. That school is made up of a relationship between teacher, pupil, and parents, and that is the way all schools should work. There are thousands of schools in this country, and we want to see them all succeed. But relying on a regulation that is implicit is not good enough. I agree with what Dr Smith said: if we cannot measure it, we cannot manage it. That is why the National Government will put it into law the standard that will have to be achieved. It is not appropriate that we are not all, as a nation, on a crusade to improve our children\u2019s education. If we want to give people the opportunity of being able to put a foot on the ladder and go up and inspire, we have to succeed and we have to do better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EWe could have a very, very long conversation about this legislation, but I believe that the weight of the argument is very much in favour of it. I must acknowledge what Te Ururoa Flavell said. I was also on that 2-year select committee review of making schools work for all our children. It was very, very enlightening. There are some wonderful teachers around. One person who came to the select committee said that he trained teachers for another year. I have tried to remember his name, but it escapes now. He had a private training establishment that was limited to taking only 100 full-time equivalents a year. He was limited because of the funding. Those teachers graduated, and were all picked up by schools, and they have all done remarkably well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EI am just so convinced as a parent and now as a grandparent that we can do better, and that what we must do is lay a solid foundation for that to happen and get on with it. That is what this bill does. It is an enabling and empowering bill, and I support it wholeheartedly. I commend Anne Tolley for having the courage to bring it forward. I think we have to keep away from the rhetoric of the negativeness, and on that basis I am very proud to be backing this bill. I recommend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b11253b5cbea4e97bdd590b0d883081e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b11253b5cbea4e97bdd590b0d883081e\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E The member for Kaik\u014Dura promised us no excitement during his speech, and he was right. He has been right for the last 3 years. I rise to oppose the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. I think that this bill might be called the \u201CTolley Bus Bill\u201D. It is ramming through radical legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271c4fd7b8cfb4dc18b20481afe85f0e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know that Labour Opposition members always revert to name-calling, because that is about as good as their debate is. But I think that as a new member he should be reminded that using such references to fellow members of the House is not appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caeaf0f9763b4d1489f5dc49dffaacc2\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is a bit rich for that particular member to be talking about personal nasty attacks on members. He is notorious for his vicious attacks on members of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd1d9385d98847da8deab9814f49fd91\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I draw the member\u2019s attention to the point that he should address members respectfully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211f90f03632f47d59925ba6f280da2ce\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. This bill is being pushed through under urgency with no consultation with the sector it most affects\u2014that is, the education sector. It gives the Minister the power to set education standards for every State school in this country, but when the bill comes through the dark tunnel of night, the Minister says that she will go back then to consult the education sector. That will be a bit late, and it is a bit rich to offer consultation after the fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EMy colleague Chris Carter acknowledged that the education system is largely collaborative. That is the strength of the system; that is what underpins the system. But this bill is about pitting teacher against teacher and school against school. It is a slippery slope. It is, if you like, a deluge. The member Hekia Parata has already referred to this bill as being the national standards/local testing bill, so the Government needs to get its lines clear about what this bill actually aims to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EThis bill has come about because during the election campaign the National Party had to present a moderate face to the electorate in order to be successful and win the election. It dropped the policy of bulk funding, which had been a National Party policy in previous elections. It made no mention of education vouchers. This bill is now the thin end of the wedge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ea228a537b74e218e4067afffc55c36\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ec6dc8910d428ba95ea2ecc3d98f84\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is. Here is how this bill will work. It introduces standardised testing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d6fc276f65345b7a435b6dd902b12f1\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: It does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c938f1ea735b4a5a999afe718a3c5130\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite said that it will introduce local testing following standards. That will then, I am sure, lead to schools being required and forced to publish those results. That will, of course, then lead to funding being linked to those results. As we already know, the National Government has indicated that it will weaken zoning, and that will of course mean that rich schools will get richer and poor schools will get poorer. That is exactly how it works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de328716de9e4f059d83b50980595985\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the politics of envy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4a32e5301934c24a563df6801996f67\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not the politics of envy; it is the politics of reality, which always ends up with the poor paying the price. That is a feature of National Governments. This policy borrows very heavily from the Bush administration\u2019s first Act in office\u2014the No Child Left Behind Act. What that Act did in the United States was take away from schools that were underperforming. That is not me speaking; that is from the US Department of Education. I will read from the preamble to the commentary, for members opposite: \u201CA key aim of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 \u2026 is to provide additional educational options to parents of students in low-performing Title I schools, specifically the opportunities to move their child to a higher-performing school or enroll their child in supplemental educational services.\u201D The point about the educational services being provided in the United States as a result of that bill is this: I ask members to guess who is providing those supplementary educational services. Is it the State school sector? No, it is not. The private sector is now providing most of those supplementary services in the United States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca6328948db046f990913cbe8ee42a73\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: So?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b4dac6d1c348eaa1d870c8cf357040\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: We have a State education system, and that is what we need to fund, rather than start to spin money out into the private sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EThe other fact that comes through from the US Ministry of Education\u2019s analysis is that the children who have done worse since the No Child Left Behind Act are those for whom English is a second language. In my electorate of Christchurch Central there are 35-plus schools. There are some very, very good schools, and they range from decile 1 to decile 10, but the predominant number of schools are in the low deciles. There is no comparison between a decile 1 school and a decile 10 school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc9a74c35ad421f8e5359cc9cc0a550\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t say that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111ea7746e39478e92a0ed3994c92c63\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: If members want to put assessments on them, the comparison is that in a decile 1 school the primary importance for children might be something as simple as whether they had breakfast that day, not whether they sit an assessment or a test. There are schools in my electorate that have up to 55 percent of their students coming from Pasifika, Asian, and other ethnic backgrounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e3b17804ce84e9581bffe0f44029468\u0022\u003EHekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: So what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d33eed45ff2c4164a927548985b2f9f8\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: So the point is that if the American experience has been that children from non - English speaking backgrounds fare the poorest under that programme, then the likelihood is that it will apply here. I will come to the funding issue shortly. The point is about how a school with a 40 to 50 percent non-English speaking profile of students would feature under this bill. There is nothing in the bill about resources. There is not a mention about the funding that is actually what drives educational outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da7909b580bc4b75b1c4dbf3bef205b5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called a budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232f28753d925419395283a09ca68bdcf\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. It is about creating another level of bureaucracy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224860638b0fdf4ee58ffb93fcf8f9eb28\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292cea800682948c9a465536b575f9fbd\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is. It is about adding another layer in there. There are plenty of tools within the current framework to assess children, as my colleague Kelvin Davis so eloquently pointed out. The tools are there already in the current procedures. The Minister says that it is about resources. I think I have the figure correct when I say there is $18 million, once the assessment has taken place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a94a93a206c3431892570d547c265ca2\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Extra.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3566409b3044ecc88ff0e96d97bbe31\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: It is extra! I thank the Minister very much. The current funding for the primary sector is about $3 billion, and if the Minister is talking about adding $18 million to $3 billion, my calculations are that that is 0.00006 percent. So much for turbocharging educational achievement!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EThe second part of the bill deals with truancy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c572e27a8254aa0a4ad9832cd26dc9d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Your numbers are wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257eb745a23794edd82d34119a4f4d6c9\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I would be quite prepared to take one zero off\u2014it is about holding parents accountable. I have no problem with the concept of holding parents accountable. The problem is that I do not think that parents are the key issue in terms of truancy. The greatest numbers of truant children are in secondary schools, and the numbers increase as they go through the secondary schooling system. Trying to get a 14 or 15-year-old to go to school who does not want to go to school is not going to be solved by having $4 million more for truancy officers, whose allocation, I worked out on the number of schools, would be about $30 a week per school or about two blocks of cheese. The other issue around the truancy issue is that it is strongly predominant in decile 1 and 2 schools\u2014and, again, I say that comes back to issues of poverty and resources\u2014and is not about decile 9 or 10 schools, which have six times fewer chances of truancy being a feature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EPita Sharples from the M\u0101ori Party supports this bill. He wants teachers to be trained to lift up M\u0101ori. I ask what on earth in this bill does anything to lift M\u0101ori teachers or teachers teaching M\u0101ori students. If M\u0101ori are underachieving now, what will happen when we mirror the American and British experience and force teachers to focus on lifting those students around the middle of the expected standard, and keep those teachers focused on that rather than on delivering attainment across the board? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the comments from a Christchurch truancy officer, Andy Parr, who has been in the job for 8 years, and who was reported in this morning\u2019s Christchurch Press as saying that tougher fines would have no effect on the families he dealt with: \u201CWe feel that the social stigma or the embarrassment is the main deterrent, \u2026 The main ones we deal with are parents who have lost control and the student is usually calling the shots.\u201D So putting the fines up to $3,000 is not likely to make one heck of a lot of difference; that is from somebody who is actually working in the field. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022 data-id=\u00221ff52e608f5541a5b224e79e2b637193\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ff52e608f5541a5b224e79e2b637193\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E What a great piece of legislation this will become when it is adopted later this week. Finally, after 9 years of a Government whose members are now sitting on the Opposition benches, we have legislation that will deal with the big issues. The big issues are the children of this country who cannot read or write properly. Is it not great that finally, after 9 years, we have a Minister of Education who cares about children in our country? Is it not great that we have a Minister who is willing to do the hard yards and who is willing to stand up and say that we believe promises are important? Promises are important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI can understand that Opposition members would be concerned. They would be concerned that the explanatory note states that the bill gives the Minister of Education the power to set national standards in literacy and numeracy. I can see why they would be concerned, because how many Ministers of Education were there over the last 9 years, and how many of those Ministers of Education cared enough to set standards so our children would be able to read and write properly? I can understand their concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EWhat is wrong with setting standards? What is wrong with parents knowing whether their kids are able to read and write properly? Every single parent in this country wants his or her child to do well, and I tell the House there is nothing at all wrong with that. Schools will be required to assess students and report to teachers in plain English\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e85ee0b7d064100af8558b3c30f25bf\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Report to parents\u2014the member can\u2019t even read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022989c3b9baeff4d8cbd933c4d31ff04de\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014report to parents in plain English, and not in text-speak, I tell that member, or in little slogans that say \u201CWassup\u201D. It should be in real common English that people can understand. That is the important thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EThis is about national standards, and that is the three Rs. That is not Rip Van Winkle and his two sleepy mates over there; that is reading, writing, and maths\u2014arithmetic. That is what we need in this country, and that is what our teachers want to teach children in this country. I think it is disgusting that members on that side of the House firstly want to blame parents, and say they are responsible. Then they want to say the children are the ones who are responsible. Finally tonight in this House we have heard that it is the teachers who are responsible. Well, it is not the teachers; it is the system. And do members know who is responsible for that system? It is the Government of the last 9 years, the party sitting on that side of the Chamber that has not cared enough about our children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EAs I sat here today I found a magazine in front of me, The Economist, which has just been published. I was flicking through it, because I am like a lot of other people around this country\u2014mothers who are listening here tonight\u2014who are concerned about the future of their children, but all we are finding from the other side of the House is rhetoric and concern. No wonder so many of our kids are concerned at the moment. On page 51 of The Economist\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0fe2af962474370b7e8ec64e99255bb\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: They are awake at the start of the speech, but they won\u2019t be awake at the end of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c23a0732903e4892b9acdc37e9bcce7a\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I tell the Leader of the Opposition that it says \u201CHold your breath!\u201D. I think that was written for him. It says \u201CHold your breath!\u201D. Then when I moved over to the next page I thought \u201COh, look at this; someone must have seen what has happened in this country in the last month. Somebody must have realised what happened on 8 November.\u201D It says \u201COn your bike!\u201D. There is another one\u2014it says \u201COn your bike!\u201D. This cannot be about New Zealand, but page 53 says \u201CThe Fading of Labour\u201D. I thought \u201CWell, that must be it. There can\u2019t be anything else in here, at all.\u201D But, sure enough, on page 56 it says \u201CStopping the rot\u201D. This legislation is about stopping the rot that the Labour Party has allowed to develop over 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI am proud to stand up and speak on behalf of the people of Rotorua. I had a great opportunity to talk to thousands of the people of Rotorua, and they told me they like their teachers there, but they do not like what this previous Government did over the last 9 years. Do members know what those people said, after 9 years of listening? They said they wanted more for their children. They want more for their children in Rotorua, and they want more for the children in many other parts of this country. I am glad that this Government has been able to help them get better things, through this legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022468b68eca1454d12a8284e7de82a7f18\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Give an example! It\u2019s on zero, mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e4b8a7d95554c8d9ff94f6762ac2b39\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I am glad that member has finally woken up so that he can listen to a good speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI received a text from the people of Murupara that said \u201CTodd, we\u2019re looking forward to your speech, but you can tell one of those members on the other side that we would like to see the colour of his eyes when the person behind him is speaking.\u201D That was from the people of Murupara. The member is welcome to come to Muruapara with me and we can go and see those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI went to Murupara 3 weeks ago when one of the smallest schools in my electorate held its annual prize-giving. Teachers are working hard at that school, and parents come to the school to help their children. The parents in Murupara say to me that members on that side of the House not only should wake up but they should know they need some more help. Those members should be making sure that the parents know how hard the teachers are working, and finally we have a Government that will help teachers, support teachers, and let them get on and do their job. How about no more complaining about the teachers, from that side of the House? How about supporting the teachers? I think there is still a teacher in Rotorua who voted for the member\u2019s party. I say to the member that he should still support him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI will finish here because the previous Minister wants to take the floor. When Labour came into Government\u20149 years ago\u2014children were being born. This year, when Labour was thrown out of office, those children were 9 years of age. One in five of those children cannot read properly, cannot write properly, and cannot do his or her maths properly. It might have been all right for the last Government that New Zealand falls below Kazakhstan when it comes to maths, but it is not good enough for this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003EI will conclude on something that is potentially dangerous. I have heard what is potentially dangerous tonight from members on that side of the House. They told us it is education. It is not education, it is the lack of education that is potentially dangerous\u2014the lack of education. The people in the Rotorua electorate had a choice this year, and they stood up and said what was potentially dangerous for them was Labour Party sponsored underachievement. That is potentially dangerous for them. They also said Labour Party ignorance of mums and dads is potentially dangerous. But the biggest choice for people in Rotorua this year was whether to have another Labour Government that was potentially dangerous for our children. The people of Rotorua are wise, and I thank them for letting me stand here as their local member of Parliament to make sure that this Government will do the right thing by their children. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022280425add1924af9aa69addca053f6b5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dfeb37cedbf441adbad4b23b3f06ebd0\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002287f2526d79c943c5a7b0164edc6d1861\u0022\u003EPart 1  School enrolment and attendance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d659ac3cd68644ba88ea6393dab7d553\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d659ac3cd68644ba88ea6393dab7d553\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E There has been an interesting and a frank exchange of views up to this point with regard to the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. I want to talk to Part 1, which deals with the truancy issue, but I would like to preface my comments, and then direct some questions to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Anne Tolley. I preface my comments by saying I am sure that every person in this House wants to see in school every young New Zealand person who should be in school. That is a desire we all have. However, in order to do that we have to engage with the students who are truanting. Very few parents want their children to truant school. I think all of us would be hard-pressed to find even what we might regard as the most difficult parents who do not want their children to succeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EHowever, I will concede\u2014and I know this as the former Minister of Education\u2014that a tiny minority of people actively encourage their children not to attend school. There must be penalties for them. Raising the level of fine is not something that in principle we are opposed to. But we in the Labour Party are concerned that parents who themselves are victims of their children\u2019s own behaviour will be impacted on by this legislation. I would not like to see, and I am sure nobody in this House would like to see, any parent who really wants his or her child to be at school, and who is not aware that the child is truanting, be hit by this change in the law and get a $3,000 fine. We have put up an amendment to require that the proposed changes in fees will only impact on the most uncooperative of parents. I really urge the National members to consider supporting our amendment, because I am sure that they, like us, do not want to see good parents penalised by the behaviour of bad children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister whether, in addressing the issue of truancy\u2014which is a subject that she has asked me many questions about in my former role as Minister of Education in the last 14 months or so\u2014the increased fines are her only step to address the question of persistent truancy. I remind you, Mr Chair, and also the rest of the Committee and particularly the Minister, that the previous Labour Government took a huge range of steps to try to address truancy. Indeed, in 2006, when the Hon Steve Maharey was the Minister of Education, we reviewed truancy services\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022267fcce0778a4d39a18501d2df267074\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The vice-chancellor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d60da761fa4245d8b4f3b1986a971af3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: That is another subject,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278f49090fe514da0915c83bf852682d3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Could Mrs Tolley tell us what a vice-chancellor is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c0b48c6876e4008a07a414c03558bec\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I know it has been reported to us by very reliable sources that the new Minister of Education had to ask the Tertiary Commission what a vice-chancellor does. I hope that Mrs Tolley knows what truancy officers do. We reviewed truancy services in 2006 and, as a result of that review, a whole series of resourcing actions were taken, including the provision of both organisational and financial resourcing to combat truancy. That is the only way to deal with the real problem of truancy. The issue is not about parents; it is about children and young people who are disengaged from learning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EMr Peachey was a fine educationalist; we have different views, but I respect what he did in schools. He was, and still is, motivated by a desire to have good educational outcomes in our country. He has in the past acknowledged to me, and he will acknowledge, the contribution made by the setting up of the electronic enrolment system, with every school now on it. We put about $6 million into that, so that for the first time ever we know exactly which children are in school and which are not. Every school is online, and the staff report truants daily into a central computer database in our schools. For the first time ever we put that in, so we knew exactly what the truancy problem was. We also put another $2 million into individual schools where there were particular problems that had to be addressed and the schools needed support to do that. Again, the issue was not about fining parents, because we are talking about a very small number of students here. We are talking about a much larger number of disengaged students. So there was another $2 million of funding for the individual schools that were most affected by truancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWe put another $4.5 million into district truancy services, so that the contractors and people who work with the Ministry of Education, councils, and schools could deal directly with the problem. The 89 district truancy services that were set up worked very closely with territorial authorities to try to deal with the problem of truancy. We employed 10 officials\u2014the bureaucrats we hear about from National, which wants to get rid of them, scale down the bureaucrats, and use their salaries to enhance resourcing at schools\u2014at the Ministry of Education to deal with very persistent, individual, hard-core cases of truancy, as well as with children who were under the care of Child, Youth and Family. Those are very special cases that needed very sensitive and professional care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EThe Student Engagement Initiative at schools was again very extensively funded, with $1.8 million provided to help schools to deal with truancies. We introduced the Youth Apprenticeships scheme in schools. It started off in 10 schools, in the time I was the Minister it was in 20 schools, and 120 schools will have the scheme in 2009. Those are actual, practical things that engage students in learning. Schools Plus was the flagship policy of the Labour Party at the election. We promised to commit $170 million to it in order to explore alternative pathways for learning for young people, capture their interest, deal with Youth Apprenticeships, and set up the institute at Manukau Institute of Technology. Those are real, concrete resourcing issues that deal with disengaged pupils. That is how we deal with truancy and get kids back into school. Yes, we do need to punish parents, but that is a tiny part of the problem. The real problem is disengaged students and how we deal with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister, Mrs Tolley, how she is going to deal with persistent truants. We have left her a well-resourced sector. We have not solved the problem. We made good progress, but we have not solved the problem. It is a really difficult issue in education. We are not unsympathetic to increasing the penalties, but again I stress the issue of making sure that good parents are not punished by the behaviour of their children. I urge the Minister to look at our amendment that is on the Table over there. Hopefully she will look at it, but I do not think she has done so yet. I am sure that she also does not want to have good parents punished for the behaviour of bad kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI come back to the point I made at the beginning of my presentation that probably 99.9 percent of parents want the best for their children. They want their children to be in school, and they want them to be successful. Children who are not in school are mostly absent not because of their parents; they are absent because they are disengaged from learning. The key to solving truancy issues is to engage children in effective learning, keep them interested, keep them at school, liaise with homes, and have professional staff in place to deal with that. Schools are really struggling with the truancy issue. As I have said, we now know for the first time ever which kids are not at school, because of our electronic system ENROL. That will be able to tell Mrs Tolley exactly what the truancy situation really is at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI again ask the Minister to please consider protecting parents from the unintended consequences of raising this fine, because we do not want good parents to be punished for the bad behaviour of young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022 data-id=\u0022c90b98fb268841a5b8b366c6c40e1dbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c90b98fb268841a5b8b366c6c40e1dbf\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to rise and talk to Part 1. I am rather sad to acknowledge that normally during the Committee stage of a bill as important as this we would be able to refer to the many submissions that we would have received during the select committee process. I am sure there would have been many submissions in the select committee process, had the new Government allowed that opportunity for the public, the parents, the education sector, and the many people who would have had an interest in this. I know we would have had a lot of very good submissions on Part 1 and the school enrolment and attendance issue. I feel very sad that we are not able to refer to those submissions, but there have already been many fine contributions during the course of the debate on this entire bill. If we think about the passion, energy, and information that has come through this debate just from the members sitting in the Chamber alone, I know we could have had so much more coming through had we had the opportunity to have public submissions on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fd44a8fbf5a450c87509c0de3cfca48\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: They wouldn\u2019t want that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c59b9f06e774a3ebf030cfa69be3d57\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure why the Government would not want that, because I think it is a missed opportunity. It is a missed opportunity to engage the broader community. All parties across the Chamber have acknowledged that education is the key to our future. Our children and their education are the key to our future, and we should be taking some time to gather that information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EHowever, much has been made by the Government about clause 6. This is the clause that allows prosecutions to be taken by the Secretary for Education. I want to ensure that people listening to this debate know that prosecutions can and have already been taken over the issue of truancy in this country. I think it is really important to acknowledge that, and it is important that the new Government does not make it look as though this is something that it is bringing in, because this ability has been there all along. Sadly, on 29 November the Waikato Times reported on two families in the Waikato who were prosecuted for not having their children attend school. One was in the town of Morrinsville\u2014a student from Morrinsville College\u2014and the other was in Matamata\u2014a student from Matamata College. It is rather interesting, because I come from Matamata and my good colleague Jacinda Ardern comes from Morrinsville, so we both knew those families. It was really very interesting to note that when we looked at the information and talked about those families, we knew that there were many, many issues going on for these families. Prosecution has happened in this instance. It probably is not the best outcome for those families; neither was the unavailability of their children\u2014those students\u2014from the education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EBut it is not as simple as just increasing fines. It is not as simple as just having an outcome at the end, after everything has gone wrong. Very complex issues are at stake here. It is really interesting when we observe the families who face prosecution. Often they come from the lower socio-economic ends of our communities, and this was certainly the common thread that existed in those two cases. There has been the ability to prosecute, and it has been happening. Certainly I think the initiatives the Labour-led Government put in place have helped to ensure that we know what the level of truancy is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EAgain, there is a bit of a theme developing here. I think it is quite misleading to say that because we now know and can quantify what the problem is, it means, therefore, that there was not a problem before and that it somehow emerged just over recent years. Of course, these problems did not emerge just over recent years, but the Labour-led Government was committed enough and was brave enough, actually, to quantify and measure these problems. The Labour-led Government implemented the ENROL system that my colleague the Hon Chris Carter talked about before, and that helped us quantify what the nature of the problem was. That is a very important thing that the previous Government did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u002236207ac5b71245c3824511e8f5d500c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236207ac5b71245c3824511e8f5d500c4\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to briefly mention the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s position on this part of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, and its amendment that proposes to split off Part 1 and Part 2 into separate bills. We certainly support its intention to do that, its reasons for doing that, and its acknowledgment that although Part 2 is an ideological argument that we will no doubt continue to have, Part 1 is about punishing the poor simply because they are poor, and there is absolutely no justification for it. I am very pleased that the M\u0101ori Party opposes Part 1 of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the long tail of underachievement that is touted around here and was touted all through the election campaign is actually a long tail of poverty. Mr Peachey is wrong in his statement that somehow education is to blame for the increasing poverty in our communities. In fact, it is poverty that is to blame for the impossibility of many of our young people getting ahead and getting the education to which they are entitled. I am not surprised that Mr Peachey is wrong about this, but he is wrong, and it is important to point that out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe are talking about communities where there are very low and very insecure incomes and where people are living in unstable and largely unsuitable homes. I think it was in today\u2019s paper that we saw an article about 15 people living in one house\u2014a family of seven in one room. There are ongoing health problems that arise from that level of poverty\u2014for example, skin infections that are treatable. In fact, a large number of doctors who work in public health organisations say that one of the biggest disgraces of this country is the fact that so many children present with preventable diseases and illnesses like asthma, glue ear, eczema, and scabies. Those diseases are all the result of living in poverty\u2014for generations, in many cases\u2014and certainly that is the case for children living in poverty in those places. Poverty results in perpetual shifting, as people with very insecure housing and very low incomes keep trying to find adequate housing that they can afford. If they find that they cannot afford it, for whatever reason, it leads to perpetual moving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThis leads to children having to change schools very regularly. We often hear about this happening in South Auckland, but it happens across the country. Hundreds of children every Monday change schools because their families have not been able to find secure employment and secure housing, where they can set up a long-term base for the benefit of their children and their children\u2019s education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWhat then happens is that children who are continually moving from school to school are really living lives of absolute turmoil over which they have no control. It is impossible for schools to then be relevant to the needs of those children and their ability to concentrate, to stay well so that they can do the work, to be socially connected to the school and to that community, and to trust and have faith in and build relationships with teachers and other children. Those things are impossible when the children may well have to move in just another month or so because of the family circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThose are all problems and challenges that schools have to deal with in order to find some way to be relevant to these kids, who are living lives of turmoil over which neither they nor their parents have any control. This is not about families neglecting their children or wanting to keep their children out of school. It is completely reasonable to see why children would not want to go to school in those circumstances. Why would they want to try to go through the whole process of going to another school with more kids, more teachers, and more relationships, only to have that stripped away from them again because their parents have lost their jobs, they have not been able to keep up with the rent, they have been evicted, and they have to move and find somewhere else to live? This is the real lives of the people we are talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWhat is the National Government\u2019s response to these real, lived lives? Those members know barely anything about this issue, and they have virtually no contact with the kinds of communities that we are talking about here. What is their response? It is not to deal with the causes of the poverty that leads to this kind of turmoil and instability, is it? There is no policy here to deal with the dislocation of these children. In fact, the priority for National is to punish these families by fining them three times more than they would have been fined otherwise\u2014$3,000 a family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022 data-id=\u002214d2ce56204d4c06a7cc1eb446f4ee02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214d2ce56204d4c06a7cc1eb446f4ee02\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the great speech made by my colleague Chris Carter in relation to what the Labour Government has done in the last 9 years. I see that Mr McClay has disappeared, but he was huffing and puffing about those young people who were 8, 9, and 10-year-olds and who are now 18, 19, and 20. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EI would say to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Anne Tolley\u2014apart from congratulating her because she lives in Gisborne\u2014that the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill is quite a fascinating bill. We listened to debate on the bill providing a 90-day trial period for employees where National took away workers\u2019 rights and said that it was good for them, and took 2 percent off KiwiSaver and said it was good for people. Now standardised testing, which has been tested internationally, is something that turns around to more bad practice. I wonder whether there is a hint of that in this bill, because when boutiques and the Esprit Group tried that practice in France and when people tried it in Wisconsin, it turned towards being a voucher system. I ask whether this bill is the lead-in to that, because it is quite incredible: we started off with the teachers being blamed, then the parents, and now it has become a monetary issue. If we double or triple the fine, will that fix up the issue? How cranky is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EMr Peachey said that a lot of the practices from his time in the classroom are now antiquated. Steve Maharey understood that, and he moved to modernise the classroom. As Chris Carter said, the Labour Government put a lot of effort into solving the problem of truancy, and that is why it declined by 24 percent. I am really happy and thankful that this Minister of Education, Anne Tolley, has said teachers will not be affected by the 90-day probationary provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b5427a7aa1245609f6c81fdf3845993\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Courageous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022923b363bf15540389d92a2c0b1bd1dd8\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: It is courageous stuff\u2014great decision-making. I thank the Minister for that, because she knows she said that, like that beleaguered statement that was being tossed around over the other side of the House. We see the failed national standardised testing in the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, and it is being linked to other activities that National wants to bring in. We know what bulk funding did, and we know how that practice got around. This is incredible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EIn the last two days, when the Opposition has performed remarkably against a Government that is still trying to find its way, we have all said that education is the cornerstone to going forward. There was something in the Speech from the Throne about invigorating and turbocharging the aspects of enterprise. I see Hekia Parata over there, and she is a great educationalist. I am so proud of the M\u0101ori members in here. [Interruption] That is right, she is my cousin, and I am so proud of her. I am so proud of Nanaia Mahuta, who will most probably become the vice-chancellor of Waikato University. I am so proud of Te Ururoa Flavell, even though St Stephen\u2019s School closed. He was the principal, and he knows about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022781665c52a264152b182aea8f875a25a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What about Paul Quinn?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b45ee1b829534ab7b38fe5627e397007\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: And Paul Quinn went to Stanford University. I left school at 15, but I became one of the longest-serving Associate Ministers of Education in this country under the great Labour leadership, so I learnt a fair bit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EFew parents encourage truancy, and members know that full well. We practised Te Hiringa i te Mahara, which brought up the performance of schools up in the East Coast, led by Parata and well resourced by this Government. If members go to the Tolaga Bay Area School\u2014do members know where Tolaga Bay is?\u2014they will see that every student who leaves that school goes somewhere. I say to Mr Bennett that at Turakina M\u0101ori Girls College, where truancy was high, and at St Joseph\u2019s School, all of those young ones go somewhere. They are not as privileged as he has been through life, and Governments have to be careful in this standardised testing stuff not to create a bigger class distinction, because a whole range of issues and ramifications, both social and cultural, are bound around truancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003EMr McLay talked about Murupara. We gave the people of Murupara a curriculum that was relevant to what the community wanted. They wanted to teach Ng\u0101ti Manawa, and we did that. Truancy came down through the Labour Government. Government members should be thankful that we supported the Education Review Office, because if they want to construct frameworks of performance, they should be sure about what they put into them. The Minister has not thought this through well enough, she has just rushed this legislation, and bleated and bleated about this being important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc6c5bdc870d45e5b21cb6f98382e9c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc6c5bdc870d45e5b21cb6f98382e9c4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I noticed twice during the member\u2019s speech that he talked about \u201Chis Government\u201D. I hate to remind him, but there was an event on 8 November, in which Labour lost the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022333cda8b938340f3abd11e0dc114cb71\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022 data-id=\u002236f022adea6e42e98654952e54e3b667\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236f022adea6e42e98654952e54e3b667\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in this debate this evening, and I want to endorse the comments of the Hon Chris Carter that truancy is indeed a bad thing. No one in this House would regard truancy as a good thing, and very few parents across New Zealand would regard truancy as a good thing. Tonight we are debating an issue that is sufficiently serious for the parents of this country to deserve a chance to discuss it and debate it. I am appalled that we are sitting here tonight when this bill has not gone through the select committee process. That is an outrage. There are parents out there with good and important views to be heard on the issue of truancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI want to ask Minister in the chair, Anne Tolley, a number of questions. How much work was done to talk to parents about truancy before this bill was put in place? How much work has that Minister done to find out the real reasons behind truancy? What are the real things that are causing students not to go to school? I am looking for the Minister to take a call and let us know how much research she has done on what is causing truancy in this country. The parents of this country deserve a chance to have a say about this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThis Government has come in and has been so arrogant within the first week that it is not even prepared to refer this bill to a select committee. There are important views to be heard from parents right across New Zealand on truancy, and I simply cannot believe that this Government would not be prepared to put the bill before a select committee. Is it because it is ashamed of the bill? Is that why it is doing this? This Government needs to know the views of parents, the views of teachers, and the views of truancy officers right across the country. We need a proper discussion about this, and the only conclusion I can draw is that the Government simply does not care about the views of parents. That is the conclusion I draw from the fact that there is no select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243fc397ee45144aa8f24cc3795b4a4cc\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fabf6a1088f449a59d0b3faef5ecfaf7\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I ask Mr Peachey whether he wants the bill to go to a select committee. Would he like to hear the views of parents? We need to have a proper debate on this issue. Mr Peachey is the chair of the Education and Science Committee. It would have been a perfect opportunity for him to have heard the views of parents from right across New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI have a number of questions for the Minister. As I said, I would like to know from her what work she has done to talk to parents and to students who have been truants. What work has she done to find out what the real reasons behind truancy are? On this side of the Chamber we want to know a little bit more from Mrs Tolley about what research is being done around whether increasing fines will actually reduce truancy. What do we actually know about the impact of increasing the fines on truancy rates? Has the Minister got an answer for that? I look forward to her taking a call on that matter. At the moment, all we have is a bill that puts the fines up to $3,000 to make sure that the National Government can show it has done something about truancy in its first week. This is all about the politics of the National Government; it is not about reducing the rates of truancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI also want to hear from the Minister whether she has analysed any research from overseas about what has happened in the area of truancy. We do not know anything at this stage about whether the Minister has talked to educationalists around the world about what works when it comes to reducing truancy. That is the kind of information we would have been able to find out during the select committee process. But this Minister and this National Government do not want to hear real research and real information about what might work in terms of reducing truancy, because they simply do not care about the views of parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003ENational has come in and had 1 week of shameful behaviour. It has been ramming legislation through the House, and not making any time for the views of parents right across New Zealand. That Minister needs to stand up, take a call, and answer the questions. Has she talked to truants? Has she talked to parents of truants? Does she know what the international research on truancy is? Can she tell us whether there is any research internationally\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022070ec2566f204e498ab57450761e68d0\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s not writing it down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e6a94692a6e4afabd8a5ac54c616fd6\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: She is not writing it down? Do we think she can remember the questions? I will ask them again for the benefit of the Minister. Has the Minister talked to the parents of truants? Has she undertaken any studies of truancy internationally that we can learn from? Where are the experts whom we could have heard from on this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac9224cf86514d76992a172678744159\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac9224cf86514d76992a172678744159\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E It is very, very clear that this is a punitive measure, rather than a constructive one. This is not about making schools a place where students want to go; it is about punishing them when they do not make it through the gate. What is wrong with making schools places where kids want to go, rather than places where they are forced to go? That is a much more constructive approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EMr Flavell talked before about truancy being particularly high amongst M\u0101ori students, so surely a big part of that, and a big part of solving it, is making school a place where M\u0101ori students feel comfortable and a place where they actually want to be, rather than trying to make schools into one-size-fits-all places, which is exactly what the rest of this bill does. National will impose these standards and tests and make school a one-size-fits-all place, and if one does not conform, one will just get shoved out the door.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a76f9485c274c669b06150b61c6e2cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cac8e4e0d4543b9b65b76c2725cc319\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Nanny State!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f6f82ecee7649b7b152b24adefd0015\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. I have a number of questions as well, and I hope the Minister will take the time to write these down. She has not written down any of the other questions\u2014she will lose track, I am sure\u2014but I am certain she will give us a good explanation. I am sure she will not listen to Simon Power, who put his finger to his lips to stop her standing up and taking the last call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12 midnight to 9 a.m. to (Saturday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200812093c9a0e0ffcd441c08b5a3b1938a45403001316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a4202b0b69ee4c23a41f78a0a2479f20\u0022\u003ETuesday, 9 December 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022097c7ce2c454495d977450eb28c34f94\u0022\u003E(continued on Saturday, 13 December 2008)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002250ba05cb24d844faa1b168f8feaa108c\u0022\u003EEducation (National Standards) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222a939cbd0c9244ba880c1c5f65f721ca\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c24fd90778904c73a37df6fd3674bddf\u0022\u003EPart 1  School enrolment and attendance (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u002282dd7c42b18d43b682b7aa3ec3bcd2ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282dd7c42b18d43b682b7aa3ec3bcd2ce\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I pick up from where I left off last night. I was talking about the importance of the democratic process and of the importance of the Minister Anne Tolley answering the questions that have been put to her by my colleague Grant Robertson and other members of the Labour Party. We should bear in mind that this bill has not been through the select committee process. The public has not had a chance to have a say on it. Teachers, parents, and boards of trustees also never had that chance. So the Minister should write down the questions we have put to her. She should pay attention to what we have to say, and she should stand up and answer our questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EWe all agree that truancy is a bad thing. We all want the kids to be in the classroom and learning, but we have yet to be convinced about the way this bill will make a difference. For the Minister\u2019s benefit, I will run through some of the questions we raised last night. One of the most important questions asked what consideration had been given to whether increasing the fines would make any difference. The explanatory note of the bill states that there is a low rate of prosecutions under the current law and under the current level of fines, so we need to consider both the reason for this and the resources that are given to boards of trustees to take these prosecutions in the first place. Is it that schools are not prosecuting parents because they do not have any support to do so? I suspect that that is a good part of the problem. How will this bill increase resources to school boards of trustees? The explanatory note states that boards are unaware of their ability to prosecute under the Act. What steps are going to be taken to remedy that? What information will the Minister be giving school boards of trustees about the current provisions and the new changes? What resources are schools going to get?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThe second issue is that this bill increases the powers of the Secretary for Education, but we have no information about how that will be implemented. I draw the Committee\u2019s attention to some of the things said about that in the explanatory note. One of them is: \u201CThe Secretary for Education\u2019s ability to take prosecutions will enable the Ministry of Education to intervene when schools are not taking action to deal with chronic parent-condoned truanting. These changes will not incur significant costs for schools.\u201D But presumably someone is going to have to pay for them. They will have to be paid for somehow. At a time when the Government has put a sinking lid on expenditure by Government departments, we are going to load a few more responsibilities on them. So much for cutting red tape!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EFurthermore, the explanatory note states: \u201CIncreased prosecution activity may impose new costs on the Court system.\u201D What satisfaction can the House take that the court system will be given the resources needed in order to be able to do that? The explanatory note also states: \u201CThere is some risk that prosecutions for non-attendance may be pursued inappropriately, with parents being unnecessarily exposed to the threat of serious financial sanctions.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f735cb598f7437b9ccd225885944ee3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Good parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c8ef6759a9f4511b1664ad922f6a8db\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. These are good parents who could be exposed to serious financial sanctions. The bill itself says that. What protections are going to be put in place? What guarantee are parents going to have that their kids have not been at school before they find themselves standing in the dock? In order for that to happen, schools need the resources to be able to tell parents that their kids are not attending school. What is the Minister going to do to make sure that the schools actually get the resources they will need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThis bill takes a very punitive approach to student attendance. It does nothing\u2014absolutely nothing\u2014to turn schools into places where students want to go; it simply threatens to punish them and their parents if they do not actually arrive at school. I want to know how this fits within the Government\u2019s wider agenda for education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d546e5539ee54e3ba0bc14f3a765a86e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d546e5539ee54e3ba0bc14f3a765a86e\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E We are here on Saturday, under urgency, because the M\u0101ori Party, the ACT Party, and the National Party have agreed to push through legislation that fundamentally affects many New Zealanders across our country, and those New Zealanders have not had a say on any of it. This Government expects that it can rush through legislation that affects ordinary New Zealanders, without letting parents or schools have a say on it and without even bothering about what they think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003ESo in rising to speak to Part 1 of this Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, I want to ask the Minister a couple of questions as well. I think the point was well made by Grant Robertson when he asked why there has been no ability for parents to have a say on how a punitive step will actually affect their ability to support their children in education. After all, we all want our kids to do well in the school system. We all want them to achieve. We all support schools lifting their game to support our children. But it is about quality teaching and creating a learning environment, and that is not what this bill does. This measure takes a punitive step against parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EI absolutely agree with Chris Carter: good parents should not be punished by imposing punitive actions such as a fine system. Why? Let us think about common examples in our communities\u2014real examples. For example, a woman with three children whose husband has left her may be on the domestic purposes benefit. Will a punitive step actually help her to support her children in their education? She is putting kai on the table and has it in the cupboard. She supports education. Is she totally responsible for what her child does because there are issues of dysfunction in her family that perhaps are not being addressed? What does the Minister say? She says \u201CLet\u2019s fine her. Let\u2019s fine that solo mum whose child does not turn up to school because his father has not been in his life and has not taken an interest in his education. Let\u2019s just fine her.\u201D There are already exacerbating pressures on a family like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EThis legislation will do nothing to support those mums who want their children to be educated in our communities, and that is what this Government has not done. It has not really looked at the implications of a punitive system on vulnerable families who will need support not only from the community and the schools but from us as legislators, to ensure that when we apply legislation it will have a positive effect out there in our communities. I do not think that a punitive step really reaches out to the families who will be affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EHas the Minister asked herself why truancy is happening in our communities? This is a difficult issue, and we are taking it seriously. Truancy is a very serious issue in all our communities, because we all know that if kids are at school for longer they are more likely to achieve. But why does truancy exist? I put that question to the Minister. Dr Pita Sharples spoke in this Chamber about this particular issue, and he knows very well that if we were to compare mainstream schools with kura kaupapa and wharekura we would find there is a higher rate of truancy overall in mainstream schools than in kura kaupapa and wharekura. Why? Every one of those kura kaupapa and wharekura schools will say that it is because teachers make the difference in the learning environment in terms of valuing the students and who they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003EIf we talk to parents of children attending mainstream schools about the issues of why truancy exists\u2014if we bother to talk to them\u2014we will often hear them say that it is because their children do not feel valued, especially M\u0101ori students and perhaps Pacific students. Dr Pita Sharples raised the issue himself. A number of the truants we are talking about are in alternative education centres. When we talk to those children and ask them why they are in alternative education centres, they will say \u201CThe teacher couldn\u2019t even be bothered with me. I was just a number\u2014couldn\u2019t even say my name properly. I didn\u2019t even bother going to school because the teachers don\u2019t value who I am.\u201D That is what students will tell us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003ESo when the Minister takes an approach like the one that has been taken in respect of this bill\u2014a very punitive approach\u2014she actually fails to recognise the number of other issues around the help that families need in order to be able to support their children\u2019s education. The Minister needs to take a call on this, because it is a very, very important question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288ae32d900e74387968d7ed2651b1134\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: She won\u2019t take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227228104909784a9aa914918cd5c6f31c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d84c34774154597b22bc7320cee5a0b\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: No, she will not take a call, but she needs to. She needs to take a call because a punitive measure such as this will punish good parents who want to support their children\u2019s education. Those parents must be supported in doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022 data-id=\u00220b3bfa07ee6f487ab2d18a8ba4f2eed0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b3bfa07ee6f487ab2d18a8ba4f2eed0\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E The question that has to be asked about this Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill is how it will improve educational outcomes, which surely should be the purpose of the bill. A bill should not come into the House for purely ideological reasons. There should be some reason, one would hope, why the bill will actually improve educational outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWe have quite a lot of information about children who do not go to school or who have very poor outcomes from our education system. One of the things we know most of all is that they live in poverty, and they are more likely to be M\u0101ori. We know that children who are missing school are more likely to come from difficult backgrounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI am quite interested in the relationship between this bill and the 90-day bill. If a parent is working a couple of part-time jobs in order to pay the bills, and he or she gets a new part-time job and finds out that his or her child is truanting from school, what choice does that parent have at that point? The choices are either to take some time off work to sort out what is happening, because the child is missing school, or stay at work. If that parent stays at work and does not deal with the problem of the child not going to school, the Government will come in and say \u201CWe\u2019re going to whack a $3,000 fine on you because your child is missing school.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003ELet us say that the parent decides on the alternative of not going to work and asks the boss for the day off to try to sort out the problem of the child missing school. Let us say that the parent is within the 90-day period where he or she can be sacked at will. That parent knows, because of the new legislation that has just been passed, that if he or she takes time off work during those 90 days to do something about the child who is truanting from school, the employer can sack him or her at will. The employer will say: \u201COh, that\u2019s one of those useless workers who tries to make sure their child gets an education. I don\u2019t want one of those workers; I will just sack that worker at will.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EHow will fining those workers $3,000 help them to deal with the problem in front of them of trying to put food on the table, pay the rent while their child is missing school, and meet the principal and teachers to find out what the problem is? If they do those things, the employer can say \u201CWell, you\u2019re obviously not the kind of employee we want in our workplace, and we can give you the sack, because the National Government has just given us the right to sack people who try to make sure their kids go to school.\u201D Well, thanks to the National Government, people are caught between a rock and a hard place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EHow does this bill help people who are in those kinds of difficult, real-life situations\u2014not pretend ideological situations, because, let us face it, this measure is just an ideological burp\u2014deal with the problem of trying to get their kids to go to school when they are in a 90-day period in a new job? Has the Government thought about how these two pieces of law, which it has been ramming through the House\u2014and we are sitting on a Saturday now\u2014might interact when it comes to real people living in the real world who are not sitting on Ministers\u2019 salaries but are actually doing their best by their kids and paying their way? Has the Government thought about how these laws might work together?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWhat about the parent who works two jobs because the minimum wage is so low, and has kids who are truanting? The fact that the minimum wage is so low puts enormous pressure on parents. These are the real issues faced by parents whose kids are not going to school. They have to have more than one job in order to pay the bills, instead of having the time they need to pay attention to their kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EIf this was a family-friendly Government, surely its first priority would be to make sure that parents have enough time to spend with their kids in order to make sure they are not truanting from school. What about the fund to insulate housing that National has now said it is not going ahead with\u2014the $1 billion to help insulate cold, damp houses? We know kids get out of the habit of going to school when they get sick. They get sick when they live in cold, damp houses. They get glue ear, they have poor educational outcomes because they cannot hear what the teacher is saying, they get isolated and alienated from their school, they do not want to be there, and they get sick. What do we do? We could insulate the houses so kids do not get sick so often, but instead we say \u201COh no, that would be bad\u2014we wouldn\u2019t want to do that. Let\u2019s get rid of that billion-dollar fund that was going to insulate houses so kids could actually get to school more often. That might help reduce truancy, but we do not want to do that; we\u2019ll get rid of that, as well.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022 data-id=\u0022529d0598475644d2a2947a535c210452\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022529d0598475644d2a2947a535c210452\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I will make a couple of points in relation to some of the comments that have been made so far. I firstly refer to the rather eloquent speech made last night by the previous Minister of Education, the Hon Chris Carter. He talked about what his Labour Government had done and talked about the many measures it took to address truancy. He asked why there was not more in this Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill to address truancy. Well, in a way he is right, because all the measures he was talking about are other ways of addressing truancy, and we have indicated in our policy that we support many of those initiatives. We intend to bring in more initiatives and we have made some more funding available. However, none of those initiatives require legislation, which is why they are not in this bill before the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EBut it is interesting that for all the previous Minister said about what his Government had done for truancy, he was unable, at any time, to tell us exactly how many truancy officers are out there on the ground in New Zealand. He clearly did not want to know. Under his watch truancy grew in this country by 41 percent\u2014a 41 percent increase occurred under all those initiatives he was talking about last night, and that was with all those dollars that had been put in. At any one time under that previous Minister\u2019s watch 30,000 children could be missing from school. That is the record of the previous Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EThe question has been asked as to whether prosecutions work and whether there has been any research. Well, there has been some research here in New Zealand. Back in 2004, under the previous Labour Government, the ministry ran a streamlined truancy prosecution trial. The results of that trial showed that the threat of prosecution, where it was used appropriately, had amazing effects. In fact, out of 30 families who were threatened with prosecution for persistent and wilful recidivist truancy, only one family was prosecuted\u2014only one out of 30. The threat of prosecution has an effect on those parents who are wilfully supporting recidivist truancy, and they are the people whom we are targeting with this measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EThe last point I will make is this. If raising the fines and making the penalties for wilful truancy more serious in this country is such a bad thing, then why have two former Labour education Ministers talked about raising the fines over the last 4 years? All Labour did was to talk about it; it never did it. Well, this Government is doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022 data-id=\u00220a9f40cfab6243eeaacc29c89509e8b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a9f40cfab6243eeaacc29c89509e8b8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Is this not interesting? Here we are on a Saturday, in this maniac burst of pseudo-urgency, considering poorly thought-through bills. We are setting aside the proper processes of Parliament and conveying the impression of urgency and the impression of action\u2014the impression of government. We fiddle while the world burns. Is this a serious response, in anybody\u2019s book, to the international economic crisis? Kiwi mums and dads at home or at work this morning are feeling apprehensive about the future of their jobs, and more apprehensive after the passing of the 90-day \u201Chire and fire at will\u201D bill. They are at home and feeling apprehensive about their ability to pay the bills, and what are we doing? Pinging them with fines for truancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003ESo why are we doing this? No one likes truancy. We have, as the previous speaker admitted, put in a raft of policies to address it and we have been making progress. But is it not interesting that the party that decried nanny Statism and the erosion of civil liberty\u2014the imposition of solutions against the many to address the problems of the few\u2014is now addressing this with a blanket law to fine parents for something that none of us, including most parents, would want to see? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EAchievement does not equal compulsory testing, attendance does not equal compulsory fining, and a safe society does not simplistically equal tougher sentences. Those things are apparent, rather than real. They are worthy goals, but they are tokenistic solutions. They give the impression of action, rather than being real action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI picked up this bill off the Table and thought I must have picked up an amendment. But no, this is the whole bill\u2014an introduction and one page of measures. We are setting aside the select committee process to pass flimflam. This is flimflam. This is not policy, this is not government; this is complete procedural and policy nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EThe reason we are here on Saturday is that this is an abuse of Parliament. If anybody at home was in doubt, Anne Tolley proved it. She first recognised the range of measures that our Government put through. She then said that this new Government had a range of things it wanted to do on truancy. OK, I ask where they are, and moreover, I ask why those measures are not in the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. If the Government does not have them ready yet, I ask why this so-called bill is on the Table. Why is it on the Table, being considered under urgency, when, apparently, most of what the Government is going to do is not here? Why does the Government not tell the public what it is going to do? It cannot possibly be this bill, because this bill is a joke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022147d45d5b573485da0439182b1f60d31\u0022\u003EI think the public knows that this bill is not a solution; it is the impression of a solution. It is not a policy; it is the impression of a policy. This is not government; it is the impression of a Government. The difference between National and Labour is that we take the public seriously and we give them the honour of knowing that they can tell the difference between good policy and bad policy. They know this is a joke and an excuse for government while the world burns, and the new Government is really trying to work out what to do. The Government is here to convey the impression of urgency without having anything real to put through, because it wants to look like an action-oriented Government, whereas in fact this is not real action. In the world around us the Americans are debating the bail-out of the auto industry, the British are restructuring their banking system, Australia has just announced another major stimulus package, and what is our Government doing? It is fining parents for truancy, as if that is going to change the world and as if that merits urgency. I say to members opposite that they are here today because they are abusing Parliament and the public. Members opposite may give the impression of being a Government, but we will most definitely be a real Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022 data-id=\u002202d705038718496bab5c5f3431423c8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202d705038718496bab5c5f3431423c8e\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Kia ora t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei ra. I really enjoyed last night\u2019s debate. There were some great contributions from across the House, and it was pleasing in terms of M\u0101ori education to hear contributions from my own co-leader Pita Sharples; from Mr Kelvin Davis, who came from a practical point of view; from Hekia Parata, who has been involved in a number of initiatives in respect of M\u0101ori education; from Metiria Turei; and also from Parekura Horomia. It was great to know that although we might speak across the House from different perspectives, in the end, as M\u0101ori and as those involved in education, we acknowledge the importance of education to each of us. There was a huge wealth of experience in the House last night, and all of us being here today clearly shows that we take education seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EI want firstly to recommend the report from the Education and Science Committee in February of this year. New members should have a look at that report, because, firstly, it contains 2 years of work, and, secondly, a huge amount of discussion came to the table. I acknowledge the contribution of the late Brian Donnelly, who led that select committee. I think it would be good if this Parliament picked up on the recommendations of that 2-year report. What was it all about? The title of the report was Inquiry into making the schooling system work for every child. I suppose that title recognises that the system does not necessarily fit all students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EI suspect that Part 1 of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill\u2014\u201CSchool enrolment and attendance\u201D\u2014is an effort to get students to go to school. The problem is that the recommendations in this part may well result in parents having to pay fines for their children not showing up, but they do not address the fundamental problem. I have some sympathy with the Supplementary Order Paper lodged by the previous Minister of Education, Mr Chris Carter, but we will consider it down the line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EIs there a truancy problem? Hell yeah! We do not have to go very far to know that. I do not think that having select committee hearings about whether there is or is not a truancy problem will do very much. There is enough evidence around to tell us that there is a problem, and, indeed, previous administrations have recognised that by way of providing truancy officers, the Waitakere truancy project, the truancy from school research project, and the text messaging project, which, I understand, Mr Mallard was part of initiating. Is there a truancy problem? Yes, and we have to acknowledge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EAs other members have said, it is likely that M\u0101ori and Pasifika students are participants in truancy. As I said at the Education and Science Committee, truancy is a sign of a bigger issue. It is likely that those who are involved in truancy are also involved in the poverty trap, and their families are not likely, in the end, to be able to pay the fines included in this part of the bill. Truancy can be viewed as a sign that the school and/or the system as a whole is not making a connection with the students. We acknowledge that the Te K\u014Dtahitanga project was recognition by the previous Government that the teacher making a connection with the students is a very important element of our education\u2014and Mr Davis took that angle last night. We say that that project needs to be developed, in light of Part 1. Of course, the downside for us at the time was that the Te K\u014Dtahitanga money was taken from the manaaki tauira project, which was indeed a valuable p\u016Bt\u0113a, or pool of money, available to assist M\u0101ori students in the tertiary sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EI will confirm some figures in terms of truancy rates. In 2002 truancy rates were 3.6 percent for M\u0101ori, 1 percent for P\u0101keh\u0101, and 2.9 percent for Pasifika students. In 2004 those rates were 3.7 percent, 1.2 percent, and 3.7 percent, and in 2006 they were 4.5 percent, 1.3 percent, and 1.4 percent. Clearly, those who are suffering at the notion of attending school are more probably M\u0101ori and Pasifika.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EIs there a better way? Perhaps a lead could be taken from a project that was developed in Hawaii called the Truancy Reduction Demonstration Project. Rather than our saying let us just fine parents, I tried to look for some sort of solution that had come out of research. I did some research and found that in Hawaii a project had been developed to combat truancy. The project identified five key elements to addressing the issue of truancy: parent and guardian involvement; a continuum of services, including meaningful supports, incentives, and consequences; collaboration with community resources, such as law enforcement, mental health, mentoring, and social services; school building - level administration support and commitment to maintaining youth in the educational mainstream; and, finally, ongoing evaluation, including meaningful and relevant outcome data geared towards increasing productive factors and reducing risk. I suppose those are wide-ranging points, but truancy is not limited to Aotearoa; it is a factor across the world. Will introducing high fines to deal with this issue make a difference? It seems to me that it will not, and the research does not really say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EIn terms of addressing that matter, I have lodged a Supplementary Order Paper, and I look for support for it from across the House. Basically, it separates the two issues in this bill, to allow the issue of truancy to be dealt with by itself, and the assessment issue to be dealt with by itself, in the belief that upping the fines may not necessarily, in the end, deal with the issue. If it is about getting our tamariki and our students to go to school, putting up fines, which may well affect only the parents and not those students, will not deal with the bigger issue. The bigger issue is building the relationship between tamariki and the school and, indeed, as Mr Davis pointed out, the teachers themselves, and back the other way\u2014between the teachers and the students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party asks for a little bit more work on the part of the bill dealing with fines. We do not think it will work, and we look forward to some support in the House for separation of the issues. It may well be dealt with a little further down the line, but from our side of things, today is not the day to deal with the issue of fines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u0022724e83cf490d4fe28cde6ce9fdcefd87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022724e83cf490d4fe28cde6ce9fdcefd87\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on this part of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. Truancy is an issue that everyone in the House is concerned about. It is an issue that the previous Government did much work on. It is an issue, of course, that this Opposition will be happy to work with the Government on if it puts before us measures that we genuinely believe will combat truancy and will not potentially make things worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI start off by acknowledging Hekia Parata and her maiden statement. Her sister Apryll was my sixth-form English teacher at Lytton High School. She was a very, very good English teacher. She was also my sixth-form and seventh-form dean. I am not worried to say that we were all a little bit scared of her, but she was a very good teacher, and it is very nice to have Hekia Parata in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I think is important, and we need to acknowledge this when we look at the statistics, is that we do now track children through the ENROL system. There was a time when we really had no idea where a lot of those children were, particularly the children of those families who travelled around a lot and changed schools regularly. When we consider the statistics, an important part is acknowledging that we do track children now and that we have a far better idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EWe are concerned that this bill will have no select committee process. None of the bills in this urgency motion will be referred to a select committee in order for the public and the sector to have their say. I just make a comment to Mr Flavell, who has just resumed his seat. The reason we are concerned about that is not that we do not think there is a truancy problem, but that we do not know whether this bill is the solution. We believe that the sector should have the opportunity to have its say because the bill might make things worse\u2014we never know. If a family that is burdened with debt gets another fine on top of that when they are desperately trying to hold it together, it might actually make things worse. That is why we believe this bill should have gone to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Anne Tolley, what evidence she has that parents who cannot afford the fines now will be able to afford them when they are greater, and what difference increasing them will make. If those families are throwing up their hands now and saying they cannot do it, then why will making those fines so much more burdensome make a difference in those families? If it will make a difference and the Minister can show us the evidence, then why not make the fine $10,000 or $100,000 for parents whose children truant? I ask why we do not do that if the level of fine is what is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI think the problem is that we have been told that other measures are coming, but this bill is putting the cart before the horse. We do not know what those measures are. We do not know how they will fit in with the raising of the fines, and how it will make a difference. [Interruption] Maybe Mr King can tell us what these extra measures are. All the evidence we have seen this week so far, under urgency, is that this Government will pursue policies that hurt the most vulnerable families. We have seen tax increases for our low-income families. We have seen an employment relations bill that will take away rights at work for members of those families who are the most vulnerable in the first 90 days of employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister to consider this scenario. Let us suppose a mother is working two or three jobs, trying to hold her family together. It is hard to be a parent and try to hold the family together at the same time, especially for a solo parent. Let us say that she is in her first 90 days of work and she gets a phone call from the school telling her that her son or daughter has not turned up and that the school does not know where the child is. What does she do? Most people would say she will go to her employer and say: \u201CMy child is the most important thing. This is the thing that matters most so I will leave here, go home, and try to find out where my child is and get that child to school.\u201D By doing that she flags to her employer that this might be an ongoing issue. This parent might be constantly called away from work, and what can that employer do in the first 90 days of that job? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003ELet us remember that hundreds of thousands of people change jobs every few months. They are mostly low-income people, who go from part-time job to part-time job, and who work a lot in the hospitality industry and in other areas where there is a high turnover. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThat employer now thinks that he or she has someone here who will want a lot of time off, because this mother obviously has a kid who is in trouble or will truant a lot, even if that is not the case. All the employer has to say is: \u201CDon\u2019t come Monday.\u201D Under the legislation passed in this House under urgency, where the public had no chance to have a say, all the employer has to say is: \u201CDon\u2019t come Monday.\u201D The employer does not have to give a reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson, the Minister of Labour, might say that the mother can take a human rights complaint because she is parent and that situation is unfair. Well, she cannot do that, because how will she prove that she was fired because her child was a problem at school and because she is a solo parent? She cannot prove that. All the employer has to say is: \u201CI am sorry. You do not look happy in your work. Don\u2019t come Monday.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI want to know whether the Minister is connecting these dots. I ask whether she is connecting the dots between the policies we have seen this week under urgency, which disadvantage our poorest families and give them no security at work, and the scrapping of a billion-dollar fund\u2014as my colleague Dr Russel Norman has pointed out\u2014that would have meant more healthy homes and more kids at school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI want to raise another issue, and that is about a blog about a parent with a child with autism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022 data-id=\u00228f35169596e94421835cd380930489bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f35169596e94421835cd380930489bb\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b748ef0cc24464f85835e61782fdb7f\u0022 data-id=\u002241a7f77f016642aab5f3455475b3bdfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b748ef0cc24464f85835e61782fdb7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241a7f77f016642aab5f3455475b3bdfd\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I was not going to speak in this Chamber until I had given my maiden speech, because that is the ancient tradition of this esteemed institution and I wanted to honour that. So to those who have gone before me, I do apologise. But last night I sat in this House and listened with growing anger and frustration to the utter drivel spouting from the mouths of members on the Government benches, and I felt I had to break my own rules on a topic that is so important it warrants it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b748ef0cc24464f85835e61782fdb7f\u0022\u003EI listened to Mr Peachey lecture us about educational achievement. That member was the headmaster of one New Zealand\u2019s largest schools, but it was also one of New Zealand\u2019s wealthiest. His students knew about aspiration. They grew up with education\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cc1c3df17d94e8cbd656a6e8641ff29\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t talk rubbish! Get it right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b748ef0cc24464f85835e61782fdb7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222c9cd41e20a4231bad1cd67152c64cf\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because their parents read them stories at night, I say to Mr Peachey. They had full tummies when they went to school. They went there in clean clothes, they understood education, they had a healthy lunch, and they had a great attitude. I say to Mr Peachy that his students\u2019 greatest problem these days is where to park their cars when they get to school. [Interruption] You may have been able to get away with bullying your students and your staff, but you cannot do that here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfd64e5635424c5ebb42b709f767f64a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot use the word \u201Cyou\u201D, as he is bringing the Chair into the debate. Also, members should please keep the tone down. Interjections are fine, but members should keep the tone down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b748ef0cc24464f85835e61782fdb7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227e67dd7cfce4668b35576f001e88310\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Then Todd McClay lectured us about 9 years of a Labour Government, when he was not even in the country then. Todd McClay said in his maiden speech: \u201C \u2018I have two ears and one mouth. I will be able to listen\u2019 \u201D. Then last night he said he had talked to thousands of people in Murupara. What did he do? Did he talk or listen? He did not listen. Of course the people in Murupara want better for their children; we all do. But Mr McClay and Mr Peachey completely missed the point. [Interruption] The member wants to talk about educational achievement. Well, I tell him that I am in the throes of completing a masters thesis on tertiary education, economic transformation, and education. So I know a little about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b748ef0cc24464f85835e61782fdb7f\u0022\u003EThe arrogance of not taking this bill to a select committee astounds and appals me. Democracy is the foundation stone of this country; \u201Cdemos\u201D means people and \u201C-cracy\u201D means rule. The select committee process allows democracy to be expressed. Democracy was the model first used in ancient Greece, when Solon founded the first democratic State over 3,000 years ago. How dare the Government dishonour that tradition when proposing social legislation? We may represent the people, but it is our duty to give them the right to speak and be heard. Does Anne Tolley understand that? [Interruption] The issue is not about her; it is about listening to the people who gave her the mandate to represent them. I say to Mr Quinn\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db4dbd26c22c48798ed26536b4029411\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I know the member is a new member, but we are debating Part 1 of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, which deals with the issue of truancy. I have listened to the member very carefully, and I have not heard any reference to the bill, at all. We have had a great socialistic lecture about all sorts of things, but I think, Mr Chairman, that you should require the member\u2014particularly as this part has been debated for some time\u2014to address Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022193485520b2f4a1db7370dd5777ed0c8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The point is well made by the member. We are looking specifically at Part. I ask the member to confine his comments to that. But I bring to members\u2019 attention Speakers\u2019 ruling 57/3, which relates to interjections. It states: \u201C(1) Interjections in debate are out of order unless they are rare and reasonable; (2) occasional interruption by way of interjection is in order if relevant;\u201D. I just draw members\u2019 attention to Speakers\u2019 ruling 57/3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b748ef0cc24464f85835e61782fdb7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6373b8ee0dc48598e7d82d17bff8b0a\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Let us talk about truancy. Is that a decile 10 - school problem? Does Remuera Primary School have a truancy problem, a truancy issue? No. Truancy is not an educational problem; it is a social-economic problem. Of course parents want what is best for their kids. They want them to be educated, but instead of low-income parents reading stories to their children at night, I tell Mr Peachey, those parents are cleaning his office, and they are delivering Mr McClay\u2019s newspaper at 5 a.m. At 7.30 a.m. they are heading out to work in their day job, I tell Mrs Tolley. National\u2019s tax cuts for the top 32 percent of income earners have made matters worse. Truancy is an issue because desperate parents cannot find the time and money to put food on the table, let alone books in homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229afe2f1f13e648f3ac9a81c87903b000\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Excuses\u2014more excuses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b748ef0cc24464f85835e61782fdb7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022848feb5ba7ec4beaaee8ea4a58a42690\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Then that Government is going to fine them a month and a half\u2019s salary. Does Mr Smith think that will help? No. I tell the Minister in the chair, Anne Tolley, to start addressing the issues, see where the failures lie, and understand the demographics of failure. It is not in Epsom or on the North Shore; it is in our poorest communities, where people are struggling with everyday issues of life. What are you doing about it? Nothing!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262058347eca04c75a2ad7f628b91210c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot use the word \u201Cyou\u201D. He should talk about the person by using his or her name, or by using the term \u201Cthe member\u201D. That might be the easiest way to do it. As soon as you mention \u201Cyou\u201D, it refers to the presiding officer at the time, so I ask the member to please take that point on board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b748ef0cc24464f85835e61782fdb7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0318f4fb0cd4a11afa6621f26200c41\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise\u2014I apologise. The Minister should go and hold a select committee meeting in the M\u0101ngere community centre, take Mr Sio with her, and hold the meeting at a time when people can attend between shifts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b748ef0cc24464f85835e61782fdb7f\u0022\u003EI will tell members this: at least Labour endeavoured to address what we know was the problem, through Working for Families and increasing the minimum wage significantly during its time\u2014measures that the National Party voted against every time. National should address the cause of truancy and raise the minimum wage under urgency. That will help educational achievement, not this legislation. I dare the National Government to address the issue of the minimum wage. Let us do that under urgency\u2014address the minimum wage. Truancy is a social-economic problem, not an educational problem. It is not an educational problem. The Government should go and hold a select committee meeting in the M\u0101ngere community centre. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b89b7ff4fd0a4b4aaca3c8af4a357b93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b89b7ff4fd0a4b4aaca3c8af4a357b93\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I start by saying that the goals of what the Government is proposing are quite laudable. Truancy is not a joke. We all agree with that; everybody on every side of the House agrees with that. And we are starting from a reasonable base. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EAs the explanatory note of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill says: \u201CThe schooling system supports educational success for many students and, by international standards, a high proportion of New Zealand\u2019s students achieve at levels comparable to the best in the world. The system, however, is not serving all students well, with 14 percent\u201D\u2014not one in five\u2014\u201Cof students leaving \u2026\u201D without achieving good standards of numeracy and literacy. So we are starting from a good base, and it is laudable that the Government wants to do better. We all want to do better. That is great, but there is debate about how we do better. Because the Government has decided to get up on its high horse\u2014its high Trojan horse\u2014draw its sword, and crusade this legislation through Parliament under urgency, there is no opportunity for that debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EWe are not hearing from principals, we are not hearing from teachers, we are not hearing from students, we are not hearing from parents, we are not hearing from truancy officers, we are not hearing from the police, and we are not hearing from the truants. That would be a good place to start, would it not? How about we go and talk to the truants? That would be a good place to start. But we do not get to hear from any of those people, because the Government is ramming this legislation through under urgency. Here we are on a Saturday. I could be back in my electorate, listening to people. I have had to cancel four engagements today. One of them was at a school. I could have been listening to teachers and students talking about this issue. But, no, we are here, under urgency, because the Government is so keen to look as if it is doing something. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003ESo let us hear from principals; let us give some of them a chance to speak up. The President of the Secondary Principals\u2019 Association, Peter Gall, said in the New Zealand Herald yesterday: \u201CParents are very much in the same boat as schools, struggling to ensure the kids are in school, \u2026 Unless the truancy is condoned, it would not be right to prosecute the parents.\u201D The Edgewater College principal, Allan Vester, in the Howick and Pakuranga Times on 13 November, said that any worthwhile plan introduced by the ministry needs a lot more than an increase in the level of fines. \u201CVery few cases go to prosecution and that type of long term truancy is very uncommon.\u201D He argued that what is needed are more resources for schools to follow up with families of students who miss more than the average days in situations where there is not a major medical issue. That is what those principals are saying; that is what they are telling us. But the Government insists on ramming this bill through anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EI decided that it would be a good idea to listen to my constituents, so I made a few phone calls yesterday. I canvassed a few educators in Palmerston North and managed to get hold of a couple of them, even at such short notice. Do members know what? The first person I spoke\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273824ad2bc5a4af3a6331531d9d152ce\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Ring Maharey? What\u2019s he up to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ac337eb966a4ecb91fe9c6fae1e968f\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: He is a vice-chancellor, and I know what he does. The first educator I spoke to was a principal of a primary school. I explained what the Government was suggesting in the way of putting up fines. I asked her whether she thought that was a good idea. Well, when she had stopped laughing, and when she had managed to compose and control herself, she asked me a simple question: \u201CWhat\u2019s the point?\u201D. I ask the Minister in the chair, Anne Tolley: \u201CWhat\u2019s the point?\u201D. The Minister had trouble writing down all the questions my colleague Grant Robertson had last night, so I have a simple, easy question for her: \u201CWhat\u2019s the point?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd516800de7e4ce0824188bf258d3389\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Get the children to school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282b9cb639a0b4c7b98d5e6b0c78c37bc\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: The member says that it is to get the children to school, but where is the evidence to show that putting up fines will actually achieve that? That is what we want to achieve, but how will putting up fines actually achieve it? The Minister has said that the threat of prosecution is enough. The threat of prosecution is already enough. A thousand dollars is already a lot of money. I am not fundamentally opposed to the Government putting up the amount; that is not a problem. But what difference will it make? A thousand dollars is a lot of money, and the threat of prosecution already works, and this is what we have got. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EThe Minister says that the Government has a priority plan of action. What is the first priority? She says that a range of options are available, yet the first priority is to punish parents. The first priority is to go after parents and to punish poor parents\u2014the ones who are struggling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4bc4e1824c941258f7af4c3f1a6e246\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4bc4e1824c941258f7af4c3f1a6e246\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This particular provision is for me primarily and largely about vulnerable families, and we need to factor them into the programme we are now debating. As we increase penalties for the most vulnerable, we must know that it is serious for them, and everyone from our side has already spoken out about that. We need to be clear that we understand when those punitive measures are to be triggered. They have to be triggered at the right time, particularly for vulnerable families. In order to ensure that we have the trigger points right, we ought to take much more advice than we have taken at the present time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThe Minister, Anne Tolley, said earlier that she was relying on 2001 research on the effects of this, which the ministry or someone else might have done. However, I say to the Minister that she ought to rely on contemporary evidence, and that contemporary evidence comes from the people who are not teachers but are working in schools right now, and who are working with these vulnerable families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EI was part of a group that pioneered school social work in this country. We placed social workers in schools for a good reason\u2014to help and work with vulnerable families. I would like to hear from those social workers. What are they saying? What is their advice? What have they found out so far, what works, and what does not work? I think we ought to bring that into the consideration of this particular clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EI agree with Mr Te Ururoa Flavell when he talked about the experience from Hawaii. As I understood from what he said, they were talking about involving parents and having a continuum of services. I did not hear him talk about punitive measures; I heard him talk about measures that enable people to participate. So simply increasing the fine will not address what is perceived as an important problem at the present time. I think the House should have the benefit of those people who have the experience and who know the conditions under which optimal assistance can be provided to families. The provisions in clauses 5 and 6 do not do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThese considerations are important, because the families likely to get caught out for the non-attendance of their children come from the lower economic and vulnerable levels of society. They are likely to be families on a low income, or families with irregular work, and, more important, are likely to have many, many social issues. Those issues need to be understood and heard. We need to know what other factors must be considered in those sorts of provisions, so that changes can be made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EI ask members to consider for a moment these different conditions. If it were a family like mine, then working with the school would be quite easy. But consider the family that I talked about in my maiden speech; a family with disability in the home and difficulties with three children. If those kinds of families, which are coping with inordinate difficulties in the home, are fined or face a prosecution, how does that help them? The system the Government has designed in clauses 5 and 6 will punish them. When I worked with those families, it was the bringing together of all of their needs and using the power of the State, and the provisions that could be made, that made a difference in the life of those families. It will not be done by punishing them with fines. I urge the Minister to send this bill to the select committee, so that the experts can come along and improve on the proposals. This is a one-shot act of conscience only; it satisfies those people who want to punish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThe Minister is acting in an authoritative way but these provisions are not authoritative. What will make the Minister authoritative is to take the best evidence, take the right experience, from those who work with such families. We have worked with those families in the past ourselves, and having worked with them intensively, I say we need to understand their experiences and what will help. It simply satisfies the expectations of a different sector of society, who believe that only by punishing the vulnerable will we will improve their life situation. There is no evidence of that. We will develop a dog-eat-dog society, but we want to avoid that. If we listen to those with experience, we will avoid that happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d284475c6390456d9778ab629a45b566\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d284475c6390456d9778ab629a45b566\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dbe4d616d936436dbde1dfdd89f53c42\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000096\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Chris Carter to clause 4 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000097\u0022\u003ETo omit this clause, and substitute the following clause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPenalty for failure to enrol\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000098\u0022\u003ESection 24(1) is amended by inserting, after \u201Ca fine not exceeding $1,000, \u201C, or in cases where the parent has actively contributed to the person not being enrolled, a fine not exceeding $3,000.\u201D\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220becf2fd3efb43219392b255275d6a53\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; Green Party 4; ACT New Zealand 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000099\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Chris Carter to clause 5 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPenalty for irregular attendance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000100\u0022\u003E(1)\tSection 29(1) is amended by inserting, after \u201Cthe offence has occurred\u201D, \u201C, or in cases where the parent has assisted the person to commit the offence, a fine not exceeding an amount calculated at the rate of $30 for every school day for which the offence has occurred.\u201D\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000101\u0022\u003E(2)\tSection 29(2) is amended by inserting, after \u201Csecond or subsequent offence\u201D, \u201C, or in cases where the parent has assisted the person to commit the offence, $300 for a first offence against the subsection (or section 120(1) of the Education Act 1964), or $3,000 for a second or subsequent offence.\u201D\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b23647124e2b43518ea53ce4ab7ee3fb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; M\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; Green Party 4; ACT New Zealand 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002280794ffc65e14fa5a931e857e75f2496\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229de55f854b544bd2b5d0e06a698797ad\u0022\u003EPart 2  Literacy and numeracy standards\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022 data-id=\u0022bacd44af83784bf889984de8755901dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bacd44af83784bf889984de8755901dc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E We have been debating this education bill for about 2\u00BD hours, and I think there is a consensus in the Committee that literacy and numeracy standards for students in our schools are things we all desire, but the question that the Labour Party asks is this: how does this bill do anything about lifting literacy and numeracy standards in schools? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWe heard the new Minister of Education saying that somehow national standards would make a difference. Well, we have explained, more than once, about the national administration guidelines that govern all schools. I personally think the Minister has never heard of them and knows nothing about them. I want to tell her, as many members of the House have already done, that schools are required under those guidelines to do exactly what she says the national standards will do. So we ask ourselves\u2014as the public and certainly all members on this side of the Chamber are asking\u2014what the point of this bill is. If these things are already happening, why are we doing it? Labour members have explained already why we think the Minister is doing this. We think the Minister is doing this so that she can create competition between schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003ELeague tables will be an inevitable result if this legislation becomes law. It is about introducing, for the first time ever, the concept that primary schools would be able to compare their results with other primary schools, and that individuals would be able to compare their results with those of other individuals. It is not that a 5-year-old should know this, or a 7-year-old should know that\u2014that is already required in schools. It is already happening in schools. We have the benchmarks; we have the progressions. We have asTTle tests whereby the individual achievement of pupils is recorded and is available to parents, and it is required by the national administration guidelines in schools to be available to parents. The Education Review Office checks it every 3 years. So what is the point? The point is a right-wing agenda in education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EThe scariest speech I have heard in this whole debate was that of the Associate Minister of Education Heather Roy, who started to talk about what, I think, is behind this legislation. She talked about choice. She talked about competition. She talked about reshaping New Zealand education. That is a truly scary prospect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003ELet us remind ourselves of what happened when we came into Government in 1999. We inherited an education system that was absolutely demoralised. Not only was it full of decaying buildings, through the neglect of the property programme, but schools were set up in competition with each other, and bulk funding had divided the profession and demoralised education. We had a crumbling education system. The Labour Government doubled the funding. We put in $5.5 billion extra. We put $3.4 billion into school property, and we put all sorts of amazing programmes into schools to lift literacy and numeracy. We employed 6,000 teachers above what was required by roll growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EThose are the practical things that one has to do to lift numeracy and literacy in schools. It is not about slogans; it is actually about an ideology of making sure that public education is just that\u2014available to all the public\u2014and that the neighbourhood school is a quality school that any parent would be pleased to send their child to. As many of our members from provincial and rural areas know, the school is the centre of a provincial community, and it should be a quality learning place where quality teaching and learning takes place, and where literacy and numeracy levels are lifting for all students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003ENew Zealand education after 9 years of Labour is world class. It is cutting edge. During the time that I was the Minister of Education\u2014and during the time of my two predecessors, Trevor Mallard and Steve Maharey, in that portfolio\u2014international visitor after international visitor came to New Zealand to look at our education system. They asked why New Zealand 15-year-olds score best in the English-speaking world in literacy and numeracy. How is it that New Zealand education has been cutting edge, with everything from Marie Clay and the reading recovery programme to Professor Hattie with his asTTle programme at Auckland University rolling out into our schools? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EInternational educationalists ask why New Zealand schools are so good. I will tell members why they are good. It is because we have poured resources into our schools in the last 9 years; we have had a culture in New Zealand of collaboration in our schools, a culture of innovation; and we have a curriculum, developed under a Labour Government, that is flexible enough to cater for individual creativity among teachers and educators and to allow for local flavours within those core competencies. We have an education system that is cutting edge. It is an education system that I as Minister was incredibly proud of. I was incredibly proud of what New Zealand teachers were doing in our schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EYes, we do have a tail in education. I have been the first to admit that. When we were in Government, we were the first to admit it. Indeed, that is why we rolled out the decile rating system. That is why we poured money into those low-decile schools. That is where the challenge is for lifting literacy and numeracy. That is where we have to make the difference, to pick up the tail. We have to lift up that 14 percent of young New Zealanders who are leaving school with no qualifications, and those large groups of students in low-decile schools who are not reading at their chronological age, not only for their own potential but for the potential of our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori and Pasifika students figure highly in underachievers in New Zealand education. The global picture is that New Zealand education is first-class\u2014world class. Within that global picture there is a specific problem: how do we lift up those underachievers\u2014the tail\u2014for their sake and for all our sakes? We can do that only through resourcing. Slogans will not work. National standards or league tables for primary schools will not work. Making children in primary schools focus on a one-off test will not work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWhat are the dangers of a one-off test? Well, those of us who are teachers\u2014I was a teacher for many years; and on the National side I can see Hekia Parata and Mr Peachey, who have both been teachers\u2014know that a test is a one-off event. A child may be sick or may have had something happen at home, or he or she could be freaked out by the pressure and tension of the test. It is a snapshot of that moment, on that day, for that child. It is not cumulative, and it does not show the progress of a child over a period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWe have moved in secondary schools from that one-off School Certificate and university entrance approach\u2014an exam\u2014to the National Certificate of Educational Achievement, which is a cumulative assessment process. That is a modern, effective system. Indeed, young people are coming out of the system with a true picture of their quality. If we go to national standards for primary schools we will fall back into that old problem of the snapshot for kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EA number of my colleagues have talked about the experiences of other countries that have done that. We will no doubt hear some more in the next couple of hours. In the United States there is the No Child Left Behind policy. What it has actually done is leave the education system behind. The American education system performs worst in the English-speaking world, and it has got worse under the right-wing Bush regime. Teachers\u2019 salaries became dependent on the result of the tests. Schools\u2019 funding became dependent on the result of the tests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWhat was the effect in the United States of the sort of choice that Heather Roy was talking about yesterday\u2014the ACT right-wing agenda where schools are in competition with each other? Well, teachers started cheating in the test. That is well-proved now by educational researchers. The tests themselves became the criteria for teachers keeping their jobs. Low-decile schools in inner-city ghettos and the poorer suburbs of American cities were closing down or were completely restricted in their resourcing. That was the effect of the No Child Left Behind policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EIn the UK the schools of Manchester are ranked 1 to 560. When parents looked at the rankings, who was going to send their child to the 560th school on the list? Everyone wanted their child to go to the schools ranked No. 1, No. 2, or whatever, but, of course, they could not afford to do that because they did not live in the right suburbs. That was the effect of national standards. That was the effect of having league tables between schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EMrs Tolley said that this information will not be available to the public; it will be available only to the Government. Has she not heard of the Official Information Act? Does she think that schools will not, with glee, publish the results of their tests, as they do already? With the tests that they sit\u2014the Australasian maths test, and the Cambridge International Examinations\u2014schools love showing what success they have. Who would not? Every teacher and principal is proud of what happens at their school. The effect of that, though, will be to create and compound differences between low and high-deciles schools; between perceived winner and loser schools. We have had a double whammy for education: the 90-day rule, which has made teachers in small schools vulnerable, and now league tables for primary schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u002251a27efa3d6d413997fe0100a7b6ca82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251a27efa3d6d413997fe0100a7b6ca82\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I have before me an interesting blog from the principal of \u014Cp\u014Dtiki College\u2014a college the Minister of Education would not be totally unfamiliar with. He makes within it some comments that are probably better not read in the Chamber. But he makes a couple of pretty succinct points. The first is that the country that has gone furthest along the line of this bill\u2014the United States\u2014ranks 42nd in the international Programme for International Student Assessment tests, while New Zealand consistently ranks in the top five. A school in a system that spends a lot of time measuring against a standard, rather than focusing on teaching and learning, is one that is not succeeding. He indicates the reason for this: spending time weighing the pig does not make the pig fatter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe point I want to make is that as part of the learning process, having regular quality assessment is important, and that is what the National Administration Guidelines do. But doing more\u2014putting it into a national testing system and having a national standard that people have to get to, which is the objective of this bill\u2014will add nothing and, in my view, will in fact take away from our education system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has an enormous international reputation for teaching and learning, especially in the literacy area. We are the home of Dame Marie Clay, the person who developed reading recovery, which is now the basis of many, many systems internationally. We have had a lot of debate around the right way to teach reading. One of the challenges in my time as Minister of Education, it might be fair to say, was to get some officials within the ministry to accept that there is more than one approach to the teaching of reading and that different things work better for different young people at different times. It was therefore important not to write off particular systems, which I think it is fair to say had been written off under Nick Smith and Wyatt Creech as being unfashionable, old-fashioned, and not working. I refer especially to phonic approaches to reading. As a teacher I say that it is not my favourite approach, but there is no doubt that it works for some young people at some stages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI felt slightly in two minds about heading down the route taken by Nick Smith and Wyatt Creech. I was supporting the systems that were more old-fashioned. I was supporting the systems that we learnt to read by. I am not saying that they were the best systems for all kids, and I am not even saying that they were the best systems for most kids most of the time, but I think we got to the point where we managed to more or less drive ideology out of the ministry with this approach. We did a lot of work bringing together the best evidence on the teaching of reading. There was a lot of documentation, and a lot of work now informs the teaching of teachers, both by way of their professional development and also within the colleges of education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThis is a slow process. It takes a lot of time to re-educate, and to develop in a professional sense, people who are teaching reading. We are actually talking about every classroom teacher, including most of the teachers within secondary schools. The point I am making initially is that I think it is very important that we do not get ideological in this particular area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbb03910437e49b9ae5c1224708454f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbb03910437e49b9ae5c1224708454f4\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E When I spoke on Part 1 of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill last evening I lamented the fact that there was no opportunity for the general public to come to talk to Parliament about their views on these very, very important issues. This is even more so in Part 2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThere would be a lot to be gained from the Education and Science Committee hearing from people as to how they want to see these national standards put in place. What type of national standards would they be? What would they look like? What must we try to avoid? There are some things that we know we must try to avoid. We have evidence-based research from overseas that shows us exactly what we must avoid. We must avoid national testing, in the way that it drives teachers to teach to a test and therefore does not allow them to use their creativity to address individual children\u2019s needs. I am pleased to say that there is a Supplementary Order Paper that may help to ease the general public\u2019s concerns about their lack of consultation on this bill and the legislative process to date and I want to speak in favour of this Supplementary Order Paper put forward in the name of the Hon Chris Carter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the Supplementary Order Paper is to ensure consultation with the public before the Minister can publish, by a notice in the Gazette, any national standards. I think that is a basic minimum requirement. I would be very, very concerned if the Minister was to not support this amendment. If the National Party is not supporting this amendment, then I think the intention is very clear: the Minister, who has a lot of power and not very much knowledge about these issues, has absolute carte blanche to go ahead and decide what these national standards will be. That could very easily turn into national testing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224379698ec30048158ec4dc41b19840a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283f5f435a71249cd876a2250fa413998\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What do you know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293e18630a1f447d2be7fec64f153d5da\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not arrogant enough to believe that I am the person with all the wisdom on this issue, unlike the Minister, who has rushed this legislation through the House, has not asked for public submissions, and has not allowed the opportunity for ordinary people like me\u2014just parents\u2014who might like to have a say about what the education standards might look like for my children and for other people\u2019s children as well. We have not been able to have that opportunity so I want to speak in support of that Supplementary Order Paper, and the associated Supplementary Order Paper from the Hon Chris Carter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThe second Supplementary Order Paper will provide for greater scrutiny of national standards and the ability for them to be reviewed, by treating them as regulations. I think that is a very important power, a very important amendment, that this House needs to consider very carefully. What if the national standards are gazetted by the Minister and they are not quite right? What would be the redress? What would be the recourse? How would we review that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205c7d209e65b4040a006a155f05cde55\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why should it be any different from the curriculum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022316fc1be72244cf584f0728cf2099ef1\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Dr Smith that I look forward to him voting in favour of this amendment. If he believes there should be a review, that there should be proper processes around this, then I invite him to support the Minister\u2019s amendment, because I think it is an excellent one. I would be very, very worried indeed\u2014I think it would be a very worrying signal to the New Zealand public\u2014if National Party members could not find it in their hearts to support these two amendments. These are the safeguarding amendments to make sure that, even though we have not had a democratic process for this particularly important bill, there is at least some ability for the public to have some say over what those national standards may look like, and then to come back and revisit them and see whether they have worked and be able to review them. I think that is a very important part of any robust legislative process\u2014not that this has started very well at all. It has not been robust from the start, because we have not had a select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EI want to take the opportunity also to talk about a few other parties\u2019 positions. I find it very interesting that the ACT Party, the party of freedom of choice, is supporting a bill that potentially forces everyone down the same pathway. They are national standards. Where is the freedom of choice argument from the ACT Party on this issue? Forcing children to go to school, for goodness\u2019 sake, under Part 1! Where is the freedom of choice in that? I find the ACT Party\u2019s position very interesting. I turn to the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s position on national standards. Yesterday I listened very carefully to Dr Pita Sharples. He was very interesting. He talked about how mainstreaming does not work necessarily for M\u0101ori. I agree with him, but forcing national standards that only the Minister will have the right to have a say on\u2014what will that do for M\u0101ori children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u00224e99c9d6f66042cba6629159c2acdcae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e99c9d6f66042cba6629159c2acdcae\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on Part 2, and to follow my colleague Sue Moroney in reiterating that members on this side of the Chamber are concerned at the lack of process in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a01fa59d4144907ba204281a544a6f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200eae9333da54074923de43ef617f34e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will you repeal it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d87995e0f3b4cad9f1504be8d9f5543\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Dr Smith that there is a bill before the House that would normally be referred to a select committee, except it is being rammed through under urgency, on a Saturday, so that the Government can look as if it is doing something. The reason we oppose this bill is that all it does is write a blank cheque for the Minister of Education to do whatever she wants, with no redress to the sector, no ability for anyone to have his or her say, and no ability for anyone to do anything about it if the Minister gets it wrong. The Minister says that she will go out for consultation, and that is great, but why does she not send this bill to a select committee, which is the natural form of consultation built into this democratic process? I am sceptical about the fact that the Minister says she will consult. By doing it this way, it means she can pick and choose whom she consults. It means that those who disagree with her may not be asked to have any input into this process. So I ask the Minister to support the Hon Chris Carter\u2019s amendment\u2014which at least says that this would be done under regulation\u2014so the bill can go to the Regulations Review Committee if people do have concerns about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe Minister says that this is not national testing. She has been quite at pains to let people know that. Of course, that is where this policy started. We have to ask why everyone in the sector thinks this will include national testing if the Minister says that it will not, and says that it is just about national standards. It is because anyone who knows anything, in the sector\u2014and we can read the enormous amount of commentary on the bill within the sector\u2014knows there is no point in having national standards if we do not test to them. Standards mean nothing if we do not actually compare students with them. This bill started as national standardised testing when it was policy in the campaign. But there was such an uproar from the sector, including from those who normally support the National Party, that the policy got watered down, and watered down. I was at election meetings with Mrs Tolley where she basically said it was not national testing; it was just standards. People would say that we do have those now, so why are we replicating what we already have in relation to a Government that said it wants to reduce compliance for schools? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI can tell members why we are doing it. It is so that the Minister and the Government can save face. They started off promising national standardised testing, but they backed down hugely under enormous pressure from the sector, which said that all the research showed that it did not work. The principal of \u014Cp\u014Dtiki College in the Minister\u2019s own electorate pointed that out, as did a Programme for International Student Assessment test: the USA, which has gone down this path, is ranked 42nd; New Zealand, which has not gone down this path, is ranked in the top five. All the research shows that the policy does not work. But the Minister did not want to say they should just dump the policy and find something that worked, so she watered it down, and watered it down. It is now going to force schools to do something they are already doing\u2014to replicate the work they are already doing\u2014while she goes around telling them she will reduce compliance. I say to members of this Committee that no party should be voting for a bill when it does not know what the bill will do, and when there is no redress for the public, the sector, or for any member of this House to be able to change it if it is wrong. This bill will simply be gazetted, and then that is it. If it is wrong it will be tough luck. The Minister says she will consult, but I do not believe that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI want to respond to something I heard last night from Te Ururoa Flavell, who talked about the very good select committee inquiry, and I was a member of that committee on that inquiry. I point out to the M\u0101ori Party that no one came along and said they wanted national standardised testing. In fact, they came along and said exactly the opposite. That inquiry was a very good inquiry, but if we read the report on that inquiry we remember\u2014as I am sure the member does, because he was on the select committee just as I was\u2014that everyone who came along talked about the very good testing that is already going on in our schools. They talked about the fact that the asTTle test is giving schools a chance to measure students in a way that is relevant. Not every student comes into our education system on the same level. To set an arbitrary standard and say that this is what children have to achieve, whilst ignoring where those children were when they came into the school system, will do nothing. In fact, the child who came into the school system doing very well, who achieved at that national standard, might have gone backwards. That child might have actually been above the national standard when he or she came in, but went backwards and then met the standard, yet the Minister will say that is fantastic because the school is reaching the national standard. Another child who came in far, far below the national standard, and who then fell just short of it, might have done an incredible job with incredible teachers to get to that point, but they will be told that they have failed. That is what national standards do. Those schools that pick up students who are in the latter category will find it harder to get teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe Minister also said there would be no league tables. Is she going to tell me that every local MP who gets more resources because that school does badly under national testing will not go out and trumpet that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022974ceb5b6c514a83b4ff528ab5b50541\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022974ceb5b6c514a83b4ff528ab5b50541\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E In some of my earlier contributions I mentioned my concern that private schools will not be included in this policy. Private schools will not be subject to the national standardised testing regime introduced by the National Government, even though they get a considerable amount of public funding. Indeed, it is National policy to increase the public funding of private schools, from around $40 million a year to $70 million a year. That is nearly a 100 percent increase in funding from public money going directly to private schools, but without the imposition on those schools of the same obligations that State schools will need to have in order to meet the national standardised testing. That then raises the issue about how the schools that might not meet the standardised testing regime of the Minister will be funded and resourced in order to meet that standard or to support their children to meet those standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EIt recalls to mind the No Child Left Behind policy of the US legislation, which I talked about in my second reading speech. The experience in the US is that the standardised testing regime had a major impact on the schools that failed to meet that test, even if they were improving. None the less, if they continued to fail to meet those tests, then one of the obligations was that the school potentially had to hand itself over to be run by a private company rather than by the community. Indeed, there has been a great deal of interest in the No Child Left Behind policy in the US. Privatisation advocates in the US have said that in their view, the schools that fail to meet the standards would be the first to be privatised. They would be the first to be either handed over because of the law to private interests, or just bought out by private interests and run by private companies as private schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWhat will it mean for New Zealand if, in the future, schools consistently fail to meet the standard? They might be progressing and making advances but they might none the less not be meeting the standards. What will this mean for schools in poorer communities such as Aranui, Highbury, \u014Ctara, and Porirua at the same time that decile 10 schools and private schools will get almost a doubling in their public funding? For example, if we look at Kings High\u2014and I understand that John Key is a parent of a child at that high school\u2014it will get an increase per annum\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022106e4857e5b14341ad46a1cf7af1e2e4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: King\u2019s College, not Kings High. Kings High is Dunedin; very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc8b683b34e44300bcd7f2c18f2d4d2e\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: King\u2019s College\u2014that is quite right. King\u2019s College is to get an increase in public funding of $1.2 million per year from the National Government. I am sure that will be very helpful to John Key\u2019s children, but at the same time that school may not necessarily be subject to the new national standards. We might get some clarification on that. However, schools in \u014Ctara, Aranui, or Highbury may well desperately need those resources to try to meet these standards and provide support to their children\u2014particularly decile 1 and 2 schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWhere will that money come from? I have said in earlier debates in this House that the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have said that there will be no new money for Ministers to spend in their portfolios, and that if they are to have any new initiatives, then they will have to find the money from within the portfolio for themselves. So where will this new money come from to fund private schools? It will come from the poorer schools in our community. The money will be used to do the standardised testing and to force our State schools into league tables, which will identify some of them as failures and make them more subject to criticism and disregard, even though those schools actually need a great deal more financial support. The money will be sucked out of the decile 1 schools and funnelled into the expensive, private decile 10 schools that do not need those resources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThis is another means by which the National Government will suck money out of poor communities and funnel it into rich ones. All the legislation passed under urgency so far has been exactly about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWhat will be the next steps? National\u2019s policy talks about allowing popular schools to expand in the future. It talks about having capital funding for those schools that are growing their role, which will again extract money from out of the schools that need support and into the schools at the high decile end that have community support. It will be helping them to grow at the expense of the other schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022 data-id=\u00229cb011832c2d47e9ab7e214ee500e72d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cb011832c2d47e9ab7e214ee500e72d\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Last night I spoke about what is currently available in schools\u2014notably, the curriculum levels and the achievement objectives for each level. Part of my point was that we already have standards in schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EIf we look at an intermediate school year such as year 8, it is reasonable to expect that a child in that year will be learning and functioning at level 4 of the curriculum. In fact, in each curriculum level there are three sub-levels. It is relatively easy for a child who comes into a school and is operating at, say, sub-level 11 to progress through one sub-level in the course of a year and reach the benchmark. A relatively mediocre teacher can achieve that. It is a lot more difficult for a teacher who receives a child who is working at sub-level 5 to progress that child through five or six sub-levels to reach the benchmark. A teacher who gets a child at sub-level 5 and progresses him or her through four sub-levels is actually doing a fantastic job\u2014a better job than the mediocre teacher who gets a child to move just one sub-level and reach the benchmark. That excellent teacher could be penalised and called a substandard teacher, although he or she has actually done a better job in raising a child from a lower level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EIf that teacher and the school do a fantastic job in raising achievement to a greater level but still fail to meet the benchmark, the school could be deemed to be a failing school in the league tables. The effect of a school being deemed to be failing is that parents tend to vote with their feet, the school suffers a falling roll, and that affects resourcing. Good teachers who see the writing on the wall then get out of that school because they can, while they can, and lower-quality teachers tend to remain. There is a downward spiral effect on the quality of achievement. In effect, the school starts to suffocate through the good teachers leaving and through the resourcing leaving with the kids whose parents vote with their feet, and there is a detrimental effect on education overall. There are alternatives. It is reasonable to expect\u2014and this is something our school worked with last year\u2014a child to progress two sub-levels in the course of a year. I suggest that instead of setting a benchmark or a standard, we look at alternatives such as minimum progress over the course of the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EHowever, because the bill is not going to go through the select committee process, we are unable to explore all the various options. Members have spoken about getting the truants to come in; well, how about getting the parents of truants to come in? We could get all manner of people within the sector to come and talk about truancy, and we could hear the various options that are available. It is arrogant of us to believe that we sitting here have all the answers and know what the various options are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003ESo that is the effect of comparing schools\u2019 results\u2014the league tables that will inevitably happen if we have national testing. My biggest concern about this whole process and the lack of transparency is that we are neglecting to bring people in to give them an opportunity through the select committee process to have their say and put forward alternative systems and ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022189c711c3cc947afa1ab4108c0a6103f\u0022\u003EThe bill is not going to raise achievement whatsoever\u2014which, of course, is the goal of the bill. I keep going back to the point I made last night that we will not raise achievement until every child in every class in every school has an excellent teacher in front of him or her. I believe that it is the role of the Government to provide the conditions where excellent teachers can weave their magic. Generally, a child will truant because he or she is disengaged, unmotivated, and disenfranchised from the classroom. It is imperative that we give the teachers the skills, the training, and the opportunity so that they can weave their magic for the kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022 data-id=\u00220836150654a040acbe06e926a56a4260\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220836150654a040acbe06e926a56a4260\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to have just a quick word because I get the impression from Opposition members that they are rather confused. They have been saying that we do not need this bill because we already have it, there is nothing new there, and we are already doing it. I again acknowledge the very thoughtful contribution from Mr Davis. His is a welcome voice in this debate. However, unfortunately not all principals are as thoughtful and competent as Mr Davis has shown in this Chamber that he is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EWe have to wonder why the previous Minister went out to the media yesterday and said \u201CWe cannot support this legislation because of its content.\u201D If the content is something we are already doing, how can he vote against it? The Opposition needs to think through the processes. I say again to Mr Davis that he has done a fantastic job at his school, and we want every single school to have that same opportunity. In 2007 the Education Review Office told us that unfortunately 56 percent of our schools are not doing that. We are setting these standards because we want every child to have that opportunity. It is very interesting that the previous Minister of Education, Chris Carter, said that if Labour gets back into Government he would repeal this law and would not have educational standards for children. That is what a Labour Government would do in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EI remind Opposition members that while they are trying to make up their minds whether something we are already doing is a bad idea, a former Minister of Education Trevor Mallard himself said that \u201CA national system of benchmark testing was needed so principals and teachers could significantly raise standards in schools and help New Zealand to regain its status as a world leader in education. Mr Mallard said standards testing was necessary to improve the delivery of education.\u201D Mr Mallard said that. He said that if he were Minister of Education, \u201Ctrial testing would have started this year.\u201D Well, why do not those members make up their minds? I cannot believe that on the one hand they are saying that we are already doing it, but on the other hand they are voting against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022 data-id=\u0022adccfb5cad4d4aed8ec1bdb029c53466\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adccfb5cad4d4aed8ec1bdb029c53466\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E If there is any confusion in this Chamber today, it comes from the Minister. Nobody on this side of the Chamber has said we do not want there to be standards in education. The Minister seems to be unaware of the situation, so I will help her by drawing her attention to the National Administration Guidelines, which already say \u201CEach Board, through the principal and staff, is required to\u201D, among other things, give \u201Cpriority to student achievement in literacy and numeracy, especially in years 1-4;\u201D, and \u201Cthrough a range of assessment practises, gather information that is sufficiently comprehensive to enable the progress and achievement of students to be evaluated;\u201D. That is already in the guidelines. They say that student achievement in literacy and numeracy, especially in years 1-4, is a priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWe have to ask ourselves again why we are debating the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. I think the regulatory impact statement on the bill gives us some guide to that. We read in it that \u201CThe Minister of Education can set national standards through the existing provisions of the \u2026 Act \u2026 either by way of the national education guidelines or by regulations. Regulating for this power could achieve the same policy objective as legislating\u201D. So why would we not do that by regulatory power? Why would we not have a situation where the standards could come under some scrutiny? Today and throughout this week we have seen that National members do not want their policy to come under scrutiny. They do not want to hear from parents, they do not want to hear from educators, and they do not want this policy to come under a proper gaze. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWe are left with the Minister being able to gazette the standards. There is no chance for anyone to look at them; that is the Minister\u2019s prerogative, and into the Gazette they go. Members on this side of the Chamber believe that if we are to have standards in education, then we should actually trust parents through boards of trustees, and with their schools and their teachers using the guidelines, to put the standards in place. Those members are saying they do not trust parents. That is the message we are hearing from the National members today. They are shutting parents out of this debate. Part 2 of this bill should be debated by parents and educators in a select committee process. That is important. Does National not believe that getting the views of parents on an important issue like standards in education is something we should do? It is a shame on this Committee that the National Government is ramming this bill through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of talk in recent months and years from National about the compliance costs for businesses. We often hear those members talk about cutting red tape; they say that has to be the aim. If we refer to the regulatory impact statement on this bill, we see there are some interesting statements about compliance costs. I will quote from it. It states: \u201CThe Ministry of Education is unable to calculate the compliance costs of setting national standards at this time, as this is dependant on its implementation.\u201D So we do not even know what the costs for schools will be. We do not even know what the impact will be on hard-working teachers and stressed principals of putting this unnecessary extra load in place. We hear that compliance will come about by having further reporting and more assessment programmes, which will put more pressure on teachers, who are already stressed out and already finding it difficult to do all that work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThis measure does not cut red tape; it increases the burden of compliance for no gain, because we know from the administration guidelines that schools are already doing those things. We have heard from my colleague Kelvin Davis about the excellent work that is going on around the country in terms of standards. We are getting there, and there is no need to go down this path. Why would we want to go down a path led by George W Bush, with his No Child Left Behind policy? We know that policy has been a failure; we know about the inequities that have been caused by that policy. Why would we choose to follow USA down that path? More particularly, why would we choose to go down that path without bringing in the educators and the people who have researched it, to hear their point of view? But no, this Government, 1 week into office, believes it can simply ram this bill through under urgency, without any input from people in the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWe have an education system in New Zealand that we can be proud of. It is staffed by dedicated professionals and dedicated teachers who should be talked to, who should be listened to, and who should be brought in to analyse this bill. The learning that our children do is defined by the teachers in the classroom\u2014and I totally support Kelvin Davis when he says that. This bill is no crusade for literacy and numeracy in education; this bill is pure politics. It is about National members being able to say they have done something on literacy and numeracy. Well, I say to the Minister that she has not done anything in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294ad24250d5b4cc49ab7fa54d3c61c09\u0022 data-id=\u0022841f6d81d0bf474e8e4583a41df6b759\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294ad24250d5b4cc49ab7fa54d3c61c09\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022841f6d81d0bf474e8e4583a41df6b759\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022095d6e4c6e3641dfaea73cd8404eef48\u0022 data-id=\u00227bd5dfbfd14c4e0fbb2bd2e9cd8d6e11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022095d6e4c6e3641dfaea73cd8404eef48\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bd5dfbfd14c4e0fbb2bd2e9cd8d6e11\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, kia ora, talofa lava, and warm Pacific greetings. During the election campaign in the Mana electorate an education forum was held at the Whitireia Community Polytechnic in Porirua. Representatives from the early childhood, primary, and secondary education sectors attended. Most political parties, including National, were represented at that forum, and heard the strong voice and the views of the education sector. The educators spoke with one voice. They said that there had been a lot of education reforms, but now they had got it right. They said that the education system is not broken, so we need not fix it\u2014if it ain\u2019t broke, do not fix it. Teacher after teacher and principal after principal stood up and emphasised that fact. As research has proven, we New Zealanders have a world-class education system. The National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA), despite early problems, is now working and is very successful. The educators were all against National\u2019s policies to introduce more tests and the one-size-fits-all approach, disguised as the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill crusading for numeracy and literacy. \u201CIf it ain\u2019t broke, don\u2019t fix it.\u201D, they said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022095d6e4c6e3641dfaea73cd8404eef48\u0022\u003EThe testing regime, as proposed by National, will lead to winners and losers. It will lead to elite schools and disadvantaged schools. It will lead to haves and have-nots. The current education system, introduced by the Labour-led Government over the last 9 years, has been reducing inequalities in education, building inclusion, and ensuring that all of our children\u2014M\u0101ori, Pacific, P\u0101keh\u0101, Asian, and all the other cultures\u2014have the educational opportunities to reach their potential. That was the vision of Peter Fraser and Clarence Beeby. Every person, whether rich or poor, or from town or country, has a right as a citizen to an education that will allow that person to fulfil his or her potential. Their vision was implemented by Helen Clark and Michael Cullen, and now, under the leadership of Phil Goff, Annette King, our Labour team will continue that vision. We will shed light on the Government\u2019s real agenda, and we will hold it to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022095d6e4c6e3641dfaea73cd8404eef48\u0022\u003EI have visited every early childhood centre and every school in my electorate, and have attended prize-givings. I have talked to and I have listened to principals, teachers, support staff, boards of trustees, parents, students, and members of our communities. There is a deep sense of pride as a result of Labour\u2019s massive investment in education and in the outcomes. The proof is shown, with most of our schools performing extremely well, and New Zealand is already a world-class leader in literacy, participation, numeracy, retention, and achievement. This manifests itself in the way our children from schools in Porirua East, like Cannons Creek School, walk tall. They have worked hard, and they have all the support in terms of world-class teachers and support from schools, families, and communities to achieve. I also add that all the support from Labour, with 20 hours\u2019 free early childhood education, numeracy and literacy support, home-school participation, the Home Interaction Programme for Parents and Youngsters, Computers in Homes, Gateway, apprenticeships, the Youth Enterprise scheme, and the emphasis on M\u0101ori and Pacific preschools, has led to wonderful results. And our parents are in work, they are in affordable housing, and they are getting Working for Families and cheaper health, which all leads to better education outcomes and pride in our children. That is what I want to emphasise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022095d6e4c6e3641dfaea73cd8404eef48\u0022\u003EWith regard to Pasifika children, we are above the national average in terms of leading level 2 in NCEA examinations. We have increased numbers in tertiary education. Our graduation levels have gone up. Yes, there is room for improvement, but it is always there and we are committed to that. The education system ain\u2019t broke\u2014do not fix it. If it ain\u2019t broke, do not fix it. Our New Zealand schools are already world leaders in literacy and numeracy achievement and they already have all the assessment tools needed to measure and benchmark our children. The targets have already been set, including in relation to Pasifika children. We have already a joint education programme with the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs with the targets. National\u2019s testing regime will lead to winners and losers. It will lead to elite schools and disadvantaged schools, the haves and have-nots. The worst and most dangerous agenda that National has\u2014and the Minister of Education should listen\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022 data-id=\u00225a0003dbeec84230b4fa8abf57d0b827\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a0003dbeec84230b4fa8abf57d0b827\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair; kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou katoa. I will refer again to the Education and Science Committee\u2019s report in February on the school system, for two reasons. The first one is it seems to me, on reading the report on that inquiry again, that all the information is there\u2014that is the first point. The second point is that, importantly, most of the parties in the House at this point in time contributed to that report, so one would think there was a commonality of view about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EIf I could firstly just set the scene, the report states that the National Administration Guidelines aim \u201Cto put good assessment practice at the heart of the schooling system. Accurate, comprehensive assessment enables teachers to plan appropriate learning programmes to build upon students\u2019 knowledge and skills and address their learning difficulties. It also enables schools to report on what students have achieved to parents and the wider community.\u201D Here is the crunch: \u201CPersuasive evidence was presented to the inquiry that inconsistent assessment practice hampers the development of appropriate learning programmes in many parts of the schooling system. The most significant inconsistencies in the effective use of assessment occur within schools, between classrooms or teaching teams. The failure to observe the National Administration Guideline means that students do not learn progressively and cannot steadily improve their achievement. This is particularly damaging to the underachievers, for whom the consequences of following an unsuitable learning programme can be lifelong.\u201D If there is a rationale for this particular part of the bill, there it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe second point is that the report talks about assessment tools. This point was picked up by my colleague Moana Mackey. The report continues: \u201CA wide variety of assessment tools are available. They can provide teachers with a wealth of information about what students know and can do, and can be of immense value in planning programmes that will enable students to improve their achievement. . . . Reports are generated to show what students know, what gaps they have in their learning, and what they need to learn next.\u201D Well, I do not necessarily agree with Moana Mackey about the discussion in the select committee. What that discussion told me was that there are umpteen numbers of assessment tools, but the problem is that they assess different things and, therefore, deliver different outcomes. Again, if ever there was a rationale for moving in this direction, there it is, because the general view of the submitters to the select committee was that the vast number of tools produce different outcomes. I will read out some of them: Prose Reading Observation, Behaviour and Evaluation of Comprehension, the Junior Oral Screening Tool, the Numeracy Project Assessment, and the Supplementary Test of Achievement in Reading. Those are some of the ones mentioned in the report. It told us simply that, yes, tools are available, but they produce different outcomes. This provision will perhaps streamline that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe third point that the select committee made was in respect of the use of data. Its report states: \u201CWe are satisfied that teachers have plenty of suitable assessment tools at their disposal. Our concern is that the schooling system as a whole is not using the huge potential of these tools to support the creation of programmes to improve the achievement of students. This is an issue for all students, but is particularly important for those in the underachieving tail.\u201D The vast majority of those students are probably M\u0101ori and Pasifika. \u201CThe gaps and deficiencies in the learning of these students cannot be corrected until they have been precisely diagnosed.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThose are important points, but perhaps we should reflect on a point made further on about an Education Review Office evaluation in March 2007 of how effectively schools collect and use assessment information. The report states: \u201Conly half of the 314 evaluated schools demonstrated effective assessment practices, and only 44 percent of schools used worthwhile assessment information which gave an accurate picture of the achievement of students across the school.\u201D This is important information. I would be the first to acknowledge the risk of having too many assessment tools, because they place a huge demand on teachers, some of whom may feel that the assessment takes up time that would be better used in curriculum delivery. But in terms of some of the statistics we have on M\u0101ori students in particular at this point in time, I think the effort to give us more data would, in fact, shape those programmes, particularly in terms of what I read out at the start of my delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EThe final point I want to make in terms of the report is that it also said we should not just go about the process and put out another assessment guideline; it said we should back it up with professional development. Again I quote from the report: \u201CAccess to good professional development is essential if assessment is to be used effectively throughout the schooling system.\u201D I totally endorse that point, and I am looking forward to Dr Pita Sharples working with Minister Anne Tolley on this particular issue. In terms of that, the report makes one final point\u2014if the Committee could indulge me by allowing me to provide this information. The report states: \u201CWe recommend that more resources be devoted to the provision of comprehensive professional development in assessment practice, so that by 2010 all schools have experienced appropriate training in the collection and use of assessment data. This would make a considerable difference to students\u2019 achievement, particularly among the tail.\u201D\u2014the tail of underachievers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003EFrom the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s perspective, schools should be held to account for their part in the underachievement of M\u0101ori students. We see this particular part of the bill as an important ingredient in the data gathered being used for productive ends\u2014for setting positive programmes for the future. It is an initiative that the M\u0101ori Party will be supporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f828df527f8436296c0cef34ed92b10\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9bec2d304fe4372a15e951edb6f9503\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f828df527f8436296c0cef34ed92b10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9bec2d304fe4372a15e951edb6f9503\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af1583ae950249e29ea7a186f431ef60\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate has been quite relevant so far, and I have been impressed with the contributions being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6da177003194ccbbbc171623f1e1293\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6da177003194ccbbbc171623f1e1293\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E The Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill is both unnecessary and alarming. It is unnecessary because, as is stated in the bill itself, the Minister of Education can set national standards through the existing provisions of the Education Act, either by way of the National Education Guidelines or by regulations. Regulating for this power could achieve the same policy as legislating, so why are we here and why is this bill alarming? We should be clear about this: the bill is alarming because it gives the Minister of Education the power to introduce national testing in our schools. The Government says it does not want to have national testing, so why are we passing a bill that allows for it? National could achieve the raising of national standards simply through using the existing regulatory powers that it has, but it does not want to do that; it wants to introduce national testing and performance pay for teachers. This is a slippery slope, and we are well on the way to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003ENational claims that this bill is about raising standards, but we in the Labour Party know that there is a big difference between raising standards and standardising education. That is what this bill is about. It is about standardising education, and implementing a one-size-fits-all approach to the education system, rather than catering to the needs of individual students. This Government needs to wake up to reality and realise that different kids learn at different rates, and not all kids arrive at school at exactly the same point. Some have had early childhood education, and some have not. Some have a lot of support at home for their learning, and some have not so much. We need to recognise that fact in the primary school system. This bill will penalise good teachers who choose to teach in disadvantaged areas and teach disadvantaged students. It will reward the teachers who choose to teach in higher-decile schools, where the kids are already at a higher rate in their learning. The bill will stigmatise the students who live in lower socio-economic areas, and it will increase the gap between the rich schools and the poor schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EMy colleague Trevor Mallard spoke earlier on about a number of the things that Labour did when we were in Government to increase the number of resources for schools. He did a lot of work in looking at assessment tools in schools and promoting tools like the asTTle assessment tool\u2014I tell Mrs Tolley that I am not referring to a cricketer. He focused on things that work, and he talked to the teachers, the principals, the parents, and the school boards of trustees. Why is this Government so afraid of hearing what those people have to say that one of the first things it does is ram this bill through Parliament without giving them any chance to have a say through a select committee process? In the Labour Party we focus on what works. We listen to the evidence, we listen to what teachers tell us, we listen to what the principals tell us, and then we act accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003ENational is not at all interested in what the teachers have to say or what the professionals have to say. National knows best; it has had its polling company out there. Its polling company told it that raising national standards was the way to go, so that is what National will do. It will have a bill that is a page and a half long and is all about raising the national standards. That will save all of the problems that we have with literacy and numeracy! National is on a crusade\u2014it is a page-and-a-half long crusade! It will not last for very long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226904759807e549498efb04fb996dcce6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239b16e3d23b14677a06b745fe13b025f\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Less bureaucrats!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f940e21af0549eca80442437a0f032b\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; National is on a crusade for fewer bureaucrats, as well, so let us load a few more compliance costs on to schools!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228afcda9187434ea98b9444760e7e3a34\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Fewer bureaucrats!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c720d1817d5465ea66e86359087b1d0\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022956f02c008bd4175a3d8ec9a6531c147\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Less bureaucracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fce6f2d35b24bbbbad900b5db948d5e\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party, which I am proud to stand here and represent, is focused on what works. In the 9 years we were in Government we focused on giving schools the resources they needed to deliver on what works. We do not agree with Bill English, who said the low-decile schools were \u201Cawash with cash\u201D. We do not agree with that; we base our policies on sound evidence, not bumper stickers that Crosby/Textor has told us are good ideas. We listen to what the teachers have to say. This is a typical National Party approach\u2014it says whatever it needs to say in order to become the Government, and then it does whatever it wants to do when it gets there. And it will ram legislation through under urgency so that nobody gets to have a say on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThis bill puts the boot into the people at the bottom of the heap, and that is what this week has been all about for the new National Government\u2014putting the boot into the people who did not vote for them. This week has been about putting the boot into the families who have just had their taxes increased. These who are going to be impacted on by many of the measures in this bill, have just had their taxes increased by the incoming National Government. They have just had their work rights stripped away and their job security stripped away, and they can now be sacked within 90 days, just like many of the teachers who will be expected to deliver on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022944cc82cefb94398bdedd32c8cd551d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022944cc82cefb94398bdedd32c8cd551d6\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table two documents at this stage. The first is a report entitled \u201CExacerbating inequality: the failed promise of the No Child Left Behind Act\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cff7e1dfee8a46359e40d2358c762030\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1e7cc7d36884157827c2f8c0e02ca83\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a second research report, which is entitled \u201CTesting and Social Stratification in American Education\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af04affd21b841fa8da9f80c098f1254\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022 data-id=\u00224406a0519939432c8507303a43cc6464\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022696376e8350f429bb01c719b85252908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224406a0519939432c8507303a43cc6464\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d91458c7847c4a23b64bffd2481049c9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I will take one more call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022 data-id=\u002235329dcc19b5444fbf3aa33067b7ae2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235329dcc19b5444fbf3aa33067b7ae2f\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E We are debating Part 2 of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. As the Minister of Education said, this provision is part of the National Government\u2019s action plan. It is trying to identify underperforming schools and help them, but in discussion on the floor of this Chamber we have had identified the amount of funding that this Government will be providing to schools to assist them with the whole issue of standards. That amount is $18 million, which is just a tiny fraction of the current education budget. It will not provide any of the supposed turbocharge indicated by the Government. Some action plan it will provide!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EWe heard the Minister in the chair, the Hon Anne Tolley, say that 32,000 children are truant every day. I ask her what extra resource will be provided for a typical low-decile school, because it is the low-decile schools that will be most affected and will need extra resources to deal with the issues of truancy, numeracy, and literacy. I also ask her what resources will be provided for M\u0101ori schools and for children of M\u0101ori origin at schools, because our friends in the M\u0101ori Party have been asking for assistance in that respect. The explanatory note of the bill refers to the compliance costs. It advises that the Ministry of Education cannot calculate the compliance costs for schools, but it will supposedly take steps to minimise those costs. I suggest that this provision will simply mean another layer of red tape regulation that schools have to meet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EThis bill is about a one-size-fits-all approach to schools. It will pit school against school. I have visited just about every one of the 35 schools in my electorate of Christchurch Central, and I can report that not one principal, not one teacher, not one parent, and not one board of trustees representative has ever raised with me the need for this kind of legislation. What many of those schools in Christchurch Central require\u2014many of them being low to moderate decile schools\u2014is more resources. That is what will address the issues still there in terms of literacy and numeracy. In fact, this bill is simply more right-wing dogma. It is a one-size-fits-all approach. It is picking up on the Bush administration\u2019s No Child Left Behind Act, which is failed policy. The analysis has been that that policy has failed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EI want to also comment on suggestions that there was failure in education over the last 9 years, under the previous administration. That is offensive, I think, to all those children who did well under the last Government\u2019s policies, who are still doing well, and who have made extraordinary achievements under those policies. It also, I think, provides offence to the many thousands of dedicated teachers who go beyond the call of duty every day to assist their pupils, and who do a darned good job, as many world league tables show.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225c60716b44ab4d62b3174a8f0af4f73c\u0022\u003EAs the Minister indicated, this bill is also about getting higher achievement. We all acknowledge that schools can do better, but I suggest to the Minister that what she needs to do is already in place. I took the previous Minister, the Hon Chris Carter, to see a decile 3 school in my electorate, Linwood High School. That school acknowledged that it had problems with literacy and numeracy, so a dedicated teacher at that school set up the LANE project\u2014the Literacy and Numeracy Empowerment project. It has become an inspirational project for that school, and I suggest that it provides a model for the Minister of Education to look at, if she truly wants to address numeracy and literacy issues. The school has assessed every year 9 pupil coming into it, right across the board. It assesses the children\u2019s family background, health, educational status, and the sorts of situations they come from. Many of the children come from one-parent homes. Many have very poor teeth, because they cannot get proper dental care. Some students were arriving at school having had no breakfast. The most extraordinary thing of all to be determined by the Literacy and Numeracy Empowerment project, which covers every year 9 pupil at Linwood High School, was that one in five of those children could not read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ced2f63bb05c48cab04efa885e5058ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ced2f63bb05c48cab04efa885e5058ad\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022db7e1f1d74114b6babc5b2d5f68e4274\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000202\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Chris Carter to clause 8 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000203\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000204\u0022\u003E(2)\tNational standards published under section 60A(1)(ba) are regulations for the purposes of the Acts and Regulations Publication Act 1989 and the Regulations (Disallowance) Act 1989.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002286461ab6afc84b81aeb9dd47e8591f02\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000205\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Chris Carter to clause 8 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000206\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000207\u0022\u003E(3)\tSection 60A is amended by adding the following subsection:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000208\u0022\u003E(3)\tBefore publishing any national standards under section 60A(1)(ba) the Minister must\u2014\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000209\u0022\u003E(a)\tPublish in the Gazette, and in such newspapers as the Minister considers appropriate, a notice setting out the proposed national standards; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000210\u0022\u003E(b)\tGive interested persons a reasonable time to make representations about the proposed national standards; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000211\u0022\u003E(c)\tConsult such persons and groups as the Minister considers appropriate.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229bb24045d93d484db2959e3b25029f89\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a15a6a13bd174c9e97dc2192b46f5836\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b921ca3c7ef845879ba588e156a3ecf5\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a07576d4f8c441d59c1b2469d35aa1b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a07576d4f8c441d59c1b2469d35aa1b2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E When I first looked at the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill I got it wrong. I thought it was actually a nothing. I thought it was just a sham, a fig leaf, an answer to election slogans that said National was going to have a crusade on literacy, that it had five planks on which to build a new, strong economy that would lift New Zealand up in the OECD league, and that education was one of them\u2014a crusade on literacy and numeracy was going to be one of the tools that did it. I looked at the bill, as tabled by the Minister of Education, Mrs Tolley, and I thought \u201Cwhat a joke\u201D. It contained nothing but things that were already happening and required to happen in our schools. We already have standards for literacy and numeracy\u2014national standards. They are required to be there under the National Education Guidelines. We have talked about that for hours and hours today and yesterday. Of course, National Party members have not listened; neither has Mrs Tolley, but then one would expect no less. I thought \u201Cwhat\u2019s the purpose of this bill, this nothing bill, this fig leaf, this sham?\u201D Actually, the more I read it the more alarmed I became. It is not a sham or a fig leaf; it is an insidious Trojan horse\u2014in the words of my new colleague, Iain Lees-Galloway, from Palmerston North. He called it a Trojan horse and I thought it was a very good analogy, because the bill introduces, for the first time, the concept into New Zealand schools that primary school-age children will sit exams and those exams will be compared with exams of other children within their school and other schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWe know that that right-wing agenda, as articulated by Heather Roy when she was in the Chamber late last night and talked about choice, competition in education, and a vision of education, is very different from that of the Labour Party and the Labour Government that has just spent 9 years administering\u2014I would say very successfully\u2014our education system. Labour members talked about the $5.5 billion extra we put into education. We talked about 20 free hours, we talked about $3.4 billion for new school buildings and 6,000 extra teachers above roll growth. We talked about wonderful little initiatives such as laptops for teachers and sabbaticals for principals. We talked about programmes for aspiring principals\u2019 and for first-time principals\u2014all the structures that one puts in to make a real difference to teaching and learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWhat does this bill do? It does not mention anything about resourcing, of course. We heard Mrs Tolley talking about $18 million. I have to tell Mrs Tolley that it costs $10 million to get a 1 percent lift in the operations grant for all 2,600 schools in New Zealand, so the Minister\u2019s $18 million will not give even a 2 percent lift in the operations grant. We gave, this year, a 5 percent lift in the operations grant. I have to say that it was greeted with howls of outrage by the education sector that said it was not enough. Of course, we would have liked to give more; indeed, of course we had already put in $5.5 billion extra into education. I have to tell Mrs Tolley that if she thinks $18 million is going to make even a ripple in the pond of education, or is going to make even the slightest impact on literacy and numeracy outcomes she must be kidding. I tell the Minister that what will happen, of course, is that she will spend most of that money on bureaucrats and consultants. The Minister actually does not like educational experts employed by the Ministry of Education so she will probably consult on this with somebody who will charge her most of that $18 million, or at least the company will, to set up the so-called standards, which are the literacy and numeracy progressions that all New Zealand schools are currently trialling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWe should think about what the title of this bill should be. We could perhaps call it the \u201CGreat Leap Backwards Education Bill\u201D because it is going back to those discredited right-wing agendas of the early 1990s when we had people like Nick Smith, Lockwood Smith, and others who were education Ministers, and when we had bulk funding, neglect of school infrastructure, and a shift of resourcing to private education. Or we could call it, of course, the \u201CRoger Douglas has Returned to Parliament Bill\u201D. That would be a rather good title for it, would it not? Seeing Roger sitting over there, I thought a ghost from the past had come back; a horrible nightmare, an agenda that New Zealanders thought was well past, had suddenly reappeared like the ghost in Macbeth. Of course, he brings with him not just himself but that agenda of privatisation\u2014that somehow the market works best, which is a policy that is totally discredited. That policy has not worked in a whole range of areas, but I will talk about education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EChile went down the path of Roger Douglas and his mates in education. That country thought it would introduce choice into its education system. It would give parents the choice to choose where to send their children. What it did was provide an absolute bonanza for individuals setting up private schools. Chilean education, which was considered one of the best in Latin America, completely collapsed. Hekia Parata\u2019s sister, Apryll Parata, came with me on an education delegation to Santiago in Chile earlier this year. We had a seminar on the New Zealand education experience and Chilean teachers, educators, and the Minister of Education were all there, because they said New Zealand had got it right. Our learning outcomes for our students, as evidenced in the Programme for International Student Assessment scores and the fantastic educational programmes that were operating in our country, were the envy of Chilean educators, because they said that they had stuffed their education system. Something like 70 percent of Chilean students were now in private schools\u2014these were businesses. The State sector was wrecked by under-investment, teachers were on strike, and students were getting really low-quality education. Tertiary providers were saying that Chilean students coming into education were of declining quality in their literacy and numeracy, and in their ability to study in higher education. All of this was the result of choice and competition. It completely gutted Chile\u2019s education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWe have not gone down that path, but this bill starts us on that journey. It states\u2014and it all so sounds so innocent, in fact, so attractive\u2014\u201Cnational standards in literacy and numeracy.\u201D Labour members have said already endless times today and yesterday that we have already got those, so what is this about? I will tell members what the legislation is about. It is about setting up league tables between primary schools. It is about saying that the children in that decile 1 school over there are sitting right at the bottom of a comparison in the greater area. In my own electorate of Te Atat\u016B each of those primary schools\u201421 of them\u2014will be ranked against each other and the parents will want to compare how children do at Tirimoana Primary School, Edmonton Primary School, Flanshaw Road School, or Peninsula Primary School. They are going to say: \u201CWe can drive across the electorate in 12 minutes.\u201D It is the most compact electorate in the country, it is just a concentration of working-class suburbs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256f98bd6f2aa4296b1cb85037e2c5aef\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Small but perfectly formed!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228efef102ec884839a76b6dd91d07e83d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Parents can easily access all the primary schools in my electorate very quickly so they are going to choose to send their child to what they perceive is the highest-scoring school. The National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party coalition has already said it is going to give more parental choice and weaken the legislation that Labour put in around enrolment zones, which will all change. We are back to the Roger Douglas days again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EHow are we going to make a real change in literacy and numeracy? We are not going to do that with the \u201CRoger Douglas has Returned to Parliament Bill\u201D, or the \u201CGreat Leap Backwards Education Bill\u201D, or with Anne Tolley\u2019s vision of education. We have to invest in early childhood education. We have to ensure that is done; in areas such as Judith Collins\u2019 electorate, where I was recently visiting schools in my role as Minister of Education, only 23 percent of new entrants were receiving early childhood education. The Labour-led Government invested over $1 billion extra in early childhood education, from the 20 free hours to the huge building grant and capacity process that we set in place to get more kids into early childhood education, because that is where we start\u2014right at the beginning. Before the children get to primary school we have them learning to read and already socialised to a school environment or learning environment. That is the only way we can make a difference. We are also going to make a difference only when we focus on areas of low-decile schools where there are real challenges in literacy and numeracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWe are not going to make a difference in those kids by slogans. We are not going to make a difference in them by saying their primary school sits right at the bottom of the league. Mrs Tolley claimed that an Education Review Office report stated that 56 percent of schools were not doing literacy and numeracy assessments. They were breaking the National Administration Guidelines if they were not doing those assessments. I, personally, think the report\u2014which I have read\u2014said that they were not doing it as adequately as they could. How is the national standard going to make a difference to that? Only resourcing and effective teaching will make a difference to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022 data-id=\u00228cf5d46fbd03490eabd6fb53c9179ca2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cf5d46fbd03490eabd6fb53c9179ca2\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on this part, and I will address a comment the Minister of Education made when she got to her feet during the debate on Part 2. She said that the Opposition was confused because we say that the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill does nothing but that we are voting against it because of the content. I would like the Minister to listen very carefully, because I think that she is the one who is confused. We are opposing this bill not because it does nothing, but because it achieves nothing, and there is a very, very big difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThis bill does do something. It absolutely replicates what schools are already doing. It adds to the compliance costs and the load on our teachers, and it makes them do what they are already doing. Why does it do that? It does that because the Minister needs to save face. She went out on the campaign trail and promised national standardised testing, and she was beaten down by a howl of opposition from anyone who knows anything about education. So the policy was watered down, watered down, and watered down to the point where it is now simply replicating what is already happening in our schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003ESo this bill does do something. This bill makes it harder for our teachers to teach, because they will be forced to implement a national standards system and a system of assessment that they are already doing. That is why this Opposition is opposing the bill. The title of the bill could be the \u201CIncreased Compliance Costs and Less Time for Teaching for Our Teachers Bill\u201D, because that is exactly what it does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EThe Minister would do well to listen to the education sector. The problem with being an education expert is that everyone thinks he or she is an education expert because everyone went to school. The fact is that there are people in this country who are actually professionals in this area, including teachers and principals, who oppose this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister how she will avoid having league tables. She says that this is not the purpose of the bill and that she is the only one who will be able to see the comparison. My colleague Kelvin Davis, who knows an awful lot more about education than the Minister does, who has been in the sector for a long time, and who has been the principal of a school that greatly increased its performance under the current system, pointed out that parents will vote with their feet. The community will know which of these schools are the ones that are not doing well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292c9d4e207ea4fb586ef9463e7d5621f\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: Shouldn\u2019t they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8a907b7553d45a19e880e561ca77a24\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Allan Peachey said that people should be able to see the league tables. Well, he might want to talk to his Minister, because she is saying the public will not be able to see those comparisons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d67edc8a3ae469083c40221b4ce4275\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: Why shouldn\u2019t parents know? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022728589a288f04dc982612b6483b729f2\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Peachey to ask the Minister. The Minister said that they will not be able to see those comparisons. The reason the community will know is that it will be harder to recruit teachers into those schools, the students will leave, and the resources will leave. If there will be no league tables, then I ask the Minister whether, when more resources are going into the schools that the league tables show are not doing well, she will guarantee that no local MP will get up and trumpet the extra resources for this school in their electorate; resources it is getting because the league table shows that school failing. If she cannot guarantee that, then her promise that this bill will not lead to league tables is vacuous\u2014absolutely vacuous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EA teacher from the Minister\u2019s own electorate emailed me last night to say that this measure will mean we will lose the collaboration that occurs between schools now. Teachers and schools work together at the moment. If they are forced into competition with each other through league tables, then that collaboration will disappear, so I ask the Minister whether she has considered that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EIf we were to rename this bill, it could be called the \u201CListen to Your Own Constituents Bill\u201D. I will read from a blog by the principal of \u014Cp\u014Dtiki College, which is a school in the Minister\u2019s own electorate. He stated: \u201CNZ schools already regularly assess student progress to inform further strategies. There is no need to have a centrally imposed and driven programme which has the intention (according to their policy) of comparing students in one school with another. This crock of\u201D\u2014and then there is a word I cannot use in this House\u2014\u201Cis a populist strategy for which there is no credible research to support it.\u201D He goes on to state: \u201CThe NZ education system is in good health. Young people are more literate and numerate as a group than any before.\u201D He also states, and I think this is important: \u201CIf National are elected and push this policy through I will struggle to remain involved in education to my current level in New Zealand.\u201D That is from a principal in the Minister\u2019s own electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister whether she takes the comments of principal Maurie Abraham from \u014Cp\u014Dtiki College seriously. This college is in an area that has many of the issues the Minister reports that this bill is trying to assist with. Here we have a principal, a very good principal, who is working very hard in a very poor community to do well by his school, who is saying not only that this bill will not work but also that it will be damaging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u002256d2a67298d6405bb5fe988417a87a84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256d2a67298d6405bb5fe988417a87a84\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am not at all surprised that the National Government has not allowed the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill to be referred to a select committee, because of course there is an agenda behind the face of the legislation, and that is around the privatisation of education. It is pretty clear that privatisation is certainly ACT\u2019s policy. Some members may have been on the hustings with ACT candidates who talked about how schools should be part of the marketplace like any other company, and who said schools should be run as companies, with all of the corporate culture that is involved with that idea. This is clearly the ACT Party policy. Even Heather Roy, when I mentioned the No Child Left Behind policy in the US, was quite happy to discuss her party\u2019s policy of vouchers and charters. Of course, ACT is part of the Government now. It has Ministers in Government, and no doubt the National Government is following that philosophy and ideology in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EPerhaps we should rename this bill as the \u201CEducation (First Step) Amendment Bill\u201D because it lays the groundwork for the opportunity to have increased privatisation of the public schooling sector. We see National\u2019s intention to increase privatisation already in the large funnelling of public money into private schools. It is worthwhile looking again at how the neo-liberal agenda has impacted on schooling policy in the US, particularly with the use of standardised testing. I refer to two further articles on that issue. The first is called \u201CAssessing No Child Left Behind and the Rise of Neoliberal Education Policies\u201D, and the second is called \u201CThe Growth of High-Stakes Testing in the USA: Accountability, Markets and the Decline in Educational Equality\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe are talking about the agenda of neo-liberal deregulation and privatisation of public services, and it leads in some ways to the kind of rhetoric that we have heard from National, particularly around the privatisation of public education and the blaming of public education for our lack of international competitiveness and the increasing gap between rich and poor. We have heard those comments all through the National Party statements on this legislation. We had Allan Peachey blaming education for poverty, and for the long tail of poverty. That is exactly the kind of rhetoric that George W Bush has spouted about the US policy as well. We have heard Nick Smith describe poverty as the politics of envy, completely failing to understand that the long tail of underachievement in this country is a long tail of poverty. What is National doing about that? It is doing absolutely nothing; it is simply punishing the poor for being poor. We have been talking about that all week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6df148b2acc48658b378f1d57c8eb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222401699ddfeb4a808a4b61e5c1a090f4\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, what a stupid thing to say!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227abe3c8ea69d47348f20341311dd6aac\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: Sandra Goudie is shouting from the benches, because obviously it gets to her that we know what National\u2019s agenda is. We know that National\u2019s policy is about punishing the poor, which the Employment Relations Amendment Bill and tax increases for the poor have done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe know from research around the No Child Left Behind policy and the way that that policy is sold, particularly to what in the US would be considered underprivileged communities\u2014here they would be low-income communities, such as M\u0101ori and Pacific Island communities\u2014that although it is supposed to be an objective assessment and reliable, in fact it is highly politicised and highly unreliable, and the outcomes are very much related to the incomes of the families that are involved. In the discussion on this bill we have also heard a lot of rhetoric around blaming teachers. Somehow the impact of teachers is undermined and degraded. The Government is investing another $30 million in private schools rather than investing in teachers, when we know that teachers are the key to making the changes that lead to success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe other issue we have to look at here is that quality education is not the issue for the National Government. For National the issue is private access to public services. We have seen that in the early childhood education sector, where National refuses to deal with the burgeoning of low-quality private sector early childhood education services in this country. Australian companies are coming in with expensive, poor-quality teaching and care in the early childhood sector, and National will do nothing about that. Those kinds of processes lock out the community sector from providing early childhood education services. We know from the research in our own country that community-based early childhood education is the best-quality early childhood education in this country, as opposed to the private investment of international corporations such as ABC Learning Centres. But quality is not the issue here for National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022 data-id=\u00229b91afd1cd844361ac058b1c1d48635e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b91afd1cd844361ac058b1c1d48635e\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take a call on these clauses. I think members have already heard me talk about my concern that we have not sent this bill to a select committee, and have not had the opportunity for some focus on the bill\u2019s detail. In particular, I have been focusing on the regulatory impact statement. I want to quote another part of the regulatory impact statement: \u201CRequiring schools to assess students against national standards will help to focus teachers on skills that every child should be mastering in reading, writing and mathematics.\u201D That leads me to believe that perhaps we should be calling this bill the \u201CPatronising Teachers and Parents Bill\u201D. To say that teachers will focus on reading, writing, and mathematics only if they have national standards is patronising. Perhaps that goes to show why this Government is putting through this bill under urgency\u2014they simply do not want to hear about it from teachers and parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThere are other names that we could give this bill. As I am a fan of the movies, we could call it the \u201CBack to the Future Bill\u201D. What we are doing here is moving back to a time when we sought to put students in boxes, and we are saying to teachers and children that one size fits all in education and that is all that is needed. We are saying that we can have national standards, and that we do not need the flexibility currently in the system, so we are going back to the future with this bill. We are going back to the future by making sure that students have to fit in rather than by looking at their needs, and by working with teachers and encouraging them to develop different kinds of programmes and assessments. Yes, the National Government wants to take us back to the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI could carry the movie theme on and perhaps call the bill the \u201CMeet the Feebles Bill\u201D, because National has launched on a feeble crusade today. The bill is a 1\u00BD-page crusade on literacy and numeracy. It is a pitiful effort from the member. It replicates what is already done, and done well, inside our schools now by teachers and parents, who should be trusted, listened to, and brought in to talk about these issues and how to improve them. That is what we should be doing, instead of taking the approach of ramming the bill through now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThere are other things we could call this bill. We could call it the \u201CNational Plays Politics Bill\u201D. That is what it is. It is about bumper sticker slogans that were put out through the election campaign and that have now come to this House. They represent nothing in the way of really lifting standards in education. We know that across this country\u2014and Mr Peachey knows it\u2014schools have been developing excellent work in this area. We need to be talking to them and working with them, not imposing additional compliance on them. We should be ensuring that teachers who are already stressed out and busy are not now being told to do more reporting in a different way, when in many cases they are already adequately communicating with their parents. We do not need to be putting this legislation in place now. It is simply playing politics so that National can say it is doing something. We have the National Administration Guidelines that allow\u2014in fact, require\u2014schools to do this. So it is quite clear that the Minister does not trust parents and does not want to listen to them. We can therefore call this bill the \u201CDon\u2019t Trust Parents and Teachers Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWe can also look at the bill and say that the compliance costs that have been put on schools have not even been assessed: \u201CThe Ministry of Education is unable to calculate the compliance costs of setting national standards at this time,\u201D. That is a result of ramming through this bill under urgency at the end of the year\u2014at a time when schools have not had a chance even to think about what this means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EI have also spoken to schools in my electorate over the last few days. To a person, those who responded to me asked: \u201CWhy is this being done in this way? Why is this Government putting this bill through when we have not heard an adequate explanation from the Minister?\u201D A teacher said to me: \u201CWhy would we follow George Bush?\u201D. America has just rejected George Bush, so why would we choose at this time to follow George Bush and his No Child Left Behind policy? It is a ridiculous policy. It has failed in America and has led to inequalities, and that is where this process is heading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003ENational standards will require national testing. That is the real agenda of this National Government. That is what it has come here to pass. The crusade has begun with the Trojan Horse, as my colleague Iain Lees-Galloway said. So perhaps we could call the bill the \u201CEducation Standards (Trojan Horse) Bill\u201D, because that is what this Minister has brought to this House today. We know, internationally, that this approach does not work; it puts students and children into boxes. It does not allow them to learn in the way that is most appropriate for them, but that should be the vision of education that we have in this country. We have a system we can be proud of, and a system staffed by dedicated professionals. We know, from throughout this debate, that teachers make the difference, not standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b06051cb2c499e82db69cda687f409\u0022 data-id=\u0022d82ae0000cd44a65ba0f716044747587\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b06051cb2c499e82db69cda687f409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d82ae0000cd44a65ba0f716044747587\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae2fcdcdcf7147ccaae4a003387d6856\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae2fcdcdcf7147ccaae4a003387d6856\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table two documents. The first is a report entitled \u201CNo Child Left Behind and the Rise of Neoliberal Education Policies\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226641a4a5d8d646dabc197b84534f84ba\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there anyone opposed? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226103af2b940d492f8395d172913e1d66\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a second document entitled \u201CThe Growth of High-Stakes Testing in the US: Accountability, Markets, and the Decline in Educational Quality\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0ac11d761f34ca8a0a37b930a30481c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. There is opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfa7e6a7e644404a98c0f817875f39ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfa7e6a7e644404a98c0f817875f39ed\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I think that the New Zealand public did actually believe the National Party when it said during the election campaign that education was the most important thing. I think that a lot of parents and a lot of teachers thought that National meant it, but already those people know National did not mean it. Let us look at the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, which we have in front of us. Honestly! Does it even make 3 pages? No. It is very, very slim. That shows how much the National members care about education. But the issue is not even about the small number of pages in the bill; it is actually about daring to say this issue does not need proper discussion, and we should not have a proper, democratic process so that teachers, parents, and communities can have a say on what our education system should look like in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EOne of these two statements must be true: this bill is either meaningless, because it does what is already in the National Administration Guidelines anyway\u2014and why are we here on a Saturday wasting parliamentary time, if it is meaningless\u2014or dangerous. I am starting to subscribe to the second view, now, after listening to this debate. I was particularly interested in what Metiria Turei had to say about a hidden agenda. I was also interested in the discussion my own colleagues have had about a Trojan Horse, and that is starting to ring more and more true. The reason I say that is that I watched very carefully what happened to the very good amendments that were put forward by the Hon Chris Carter in order to ensure there could be debate about, and some public scrutiny of, the national standards the Minister might decide to put in. What did the National members do with regard to those amendments? They shut them down straight away. That tells me that there must be a secret agenda. Why else would the National Party deny the public the opportunity to scrutinise national standards that come from the Minister? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EThis Minister has said during the course of this debate that we will not end up with national testing. I ask the Minister in the chair, Anne Tolley, whether that is right. Oh, she is not confirming that now. Already she will not confirm it, but I thought I heard her say this legislation is not about national testing. There is no reaction\u2014so it is about national testing. Is it about national testing or not? Suddenly I am unsure again, and that concerns me even more, because I thought I heard the Minister say the bill is not about national testing. She is not prepared to confirm that now, but I thought I heard her say that before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EWe have also seen that Minister on video, saying teachers would be exempt from the provisions of the 90-day probationary employment period bill. How did that end up? It ended up with that Minister voting against the very amendment that would have ensured teachers were excluded from the 90-day bill. So can we trust this Minister? Can we trust this Minister to have the ability to gazette national standards? Those may or may not be national testing; she will not confirm or deny that now. She seems to be taking the American stance yet again\u2014neither confirm nor deny. We have heard that before from the Americans. Maybe the Government is completely going towards the American stance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley is neither confirming nor denying national testing at this stage, but I am just looking at a Hansard here from earlier on in the debate. My colleague Brendon Burns said in his speech that the bill introduces standardised testing, and the Hon Anne Tolley said it does not. That is in Hansard. So which is the true statement there? The issue is really very clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc6ee636244040eabd79dbf71c793c1c\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: She does change her mind quite a lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef70167dbe8a48c69df1e6aed49ef9b2\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: She does. It is very, very difficult to work out, because now the Minister seems to have taken the American stance of neither confirming nor denying that, so we are none the wiser. We have had a debate in the Committee stage; we obviously need to flush that issue out quite some more. We are certainly coming towards the final debate in the Committee stage of this bill, and we have absolutely no clarity on whether or not the bill proposes national testing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6df148b2acc48658b378f1d57c8eb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db7d85f107944ee08f8da14ccab7ebc2\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Too simple for her to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242d9057f02f34dfa8ab55e1521f5c232\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Sandra Goudie seems to know the answer. But there does seem to be quite a lot of confusion on the Government benches, because I also thought I heard the Minister say this legislation would not result in league tables being published. I thought I heard the Minister say that. I am not sure whether she still believes that, but I thought she said that during the course of the debate. Allan Peachey said league tables should be published.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022170f71783e4443c08a29615471726a23\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Did he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a6d5f3aef054128a3f882617ef84e34\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d97707efe1d4b2da64fbace61b8a71c\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he said that very clearly before, so which is the true story?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022 data-id=\u00220b78133dbeb94ace9a6544e59763f12a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f59514b221b42339baf2939a1fdee52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b78133dbeb94ace9a6544e59763f12a\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I move that this question now be put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297dcb6691a604c91b40bb348e73cc62d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Clayton Cosgrove.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c6e27bdc79dc4857a3e420c3d8059fee\u0022 data-id=\u002275a1e7705139484a8077b228970cb695\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c6e27bdc79dc4857a3e420c3d8059fee\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275a1e7705139484a8077b228970cb695\u0022\u003EH V ROSS ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Manukau East)\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I was just going to remind you that National moved the wrong motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d960487daeeb49ac921cf3ee3b4b30ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e3000b96972437180783f23be097990\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That is one of the reasons it was overruled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00229f4ba46733904b5d86d74163a379da12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f4ba46733904b5d86d74163a379da12\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I am indebted to Mr Robertson, as always. Mr Robertson is always on point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI suppose, in looking at the title of this bill, I am mindful of the fact that Gerry Brownlee was a teacher at the school I went to\u2014and, thankfully, he never taught me. But I wonder why Mr Brownlee, being a teacher of long standing, has not taken a call on this bill. I inquired of Mr Power as to why that was the case\u2014and I express sympathy for Mr Brownlee\u2014and Mr Power informed me that Mr Brownlee has an ailment. He has sore knees, to quote Mr Power. I assume that is because he has been down on them for most of the last 48 hours, begging for forgiveness from the Deputy Prime Minister Mr English for the shambolic way this House has been managed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ENever, I am told by learned members of long standing behind me, has a Leader of the House lost the confidence of the Opposition so quickly\u2014within 4\u00BD to 5 days. I invite Mr Brownlee\u2014and Dr Cullen could inform me whether there is a precedent we could set\u2014to take a call from the sitting position, so that he does not have to exercise his cartilage too badly, and so that he can make what would be a valuable contribution as a former woodwork teacher from St Bede\u2019s, who, I am told, used to make a very good cutting board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202954e95ca9342728738a66a8b0c0e06\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: He is now the cross they bear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae2ecc6d8ad465badf16633fab5b7ca\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes; I am sure he has the angles right on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI think the title of this bill could be, as some teachers in my patch have said, the \u201CSchool Cert for Under-sixes Bill\u201D. The sad thing about this bill is that the National Party is in total denial. I will not re-rehearse what Mr Carter and Mr Mallard have said, but we know that under National Administration Guidelines 1 and 2 there is assessment. There are standards; they have been in place for a very long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis bill seems to suggest that teachers are silly, and they are not. It suggests, apparently, that they do not assess, when they do. It suggests that parents are silly, and they are not. But the National Party seems to think they are. National says that parents do not engage with teachers and that teachers will not engage with parents and report to them, even though that is specified in the National Administration Guidelines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ENational says there is no engagement between parents and teachers in terms of the progress and reporting of their children\u2019s performance. That is the National Party\u2019s thinking, and it is Mrs Tolley\u2019s thinking, as she has been dragged out of the lock-up\u2014and maybe Mr Brownlee is in charge of that. Maybe he is in charge of keeping Mrs Tolley away from the Chamber as much as possible, so as not to cause that crew over there embarrassment. I wonder whether Mrs Tolley and Ms Wilkinson have conversed by carrier pigeon, semaphore, text message, or verbally\u2014I do not know\u2014to clarify a position on the 90-day bill. [Interruption] Dr Cullen makes a good point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EMrs Tolley has been in the Chamber, and during my time in the Chamber, both last night and this morning, I do not think she has answered a question. The sad thing is that the provisions for assessment and standards, as we know, have been in place for a long time. Teachers do report to parents, and parents do engage with schools on the progress of their children. But now we will have a Trojan Horse. I cannot recall which colleague used the term \u201CTrojan Horse\u201D, but this is indeed a Trojan Horse, I think, so that monetary contributions to schools will follow performance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI think a term that the National Party used during the election campaign was that funding would follow performance. If that is combined with the dropping of zoning, some schools will be ghettoised, as certain schools were in the 1990s, and\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002297750667c9f54d08b0ef34a4aab55060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e930254fb864818a41f7b30f76b3ec2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Gerry would be on starvation rations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f62aff0646a4ca89b2962e16ff832cb\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: No, that would be impossible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIf zoning is dropped, and if funding then follows performance, the next logical step is to go back to the bulk funding regime National put in place when it was in Government in the 1990s. I think that that is actually the hidden agenda, so maybe we should call this the \u201CHidden Agenda Education Bill\u201D, or \u201CAnne Tolley\u2019s Last Stand Education Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291bc83c9f9d840e1afa83a71d784167b\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t want them to change her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c74ee742fb34b978b6b8e67a3cd7226\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no\u2014we do not want to change her, although I think that Mr Peachey would have been a better education Minister out of the two of them. But there are more salacious opportunities with Mrs Tolley holding the ministerial portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245563c8dd76d4316800a7fbcf1c2d844\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: We look forward to question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022584fe0b115c149429fbee6cb4bed1b68\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed we look forward to question time, because we will be able to ask questions about the definition of a vice-chancellor, or about whether Mrs Tolley knows what her name and title are. We will be able to ask some of those very basic questions, such as: \u201CWhat did she say to teachers?\u201D, and \u201CIs Ms Wilkinson right or is she right?\u201D, or whatever. We can sort of tease these things out. It is a bit like Chinese water torture, you know\u2014we will just tease them out and rotisserie Mrs Tolley slowly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247e229402e7f463990d0f45e7ed22ea3\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s less to rotisserie now, of course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285f0d17637de4b3380ca49d6ff5a252d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220221008a5179498eae949736c69a751c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: But we don\u2019t want John Key to replace her\u2014leave her alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022694295940e09447baad486319852173b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed\u2014do not replace her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022 data-id=\u0022697f0500ad594a6d9c85b124bc4d312f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022697f0500ad594a6d9c85b124bc4d312f\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224fbec63dbb6944b4999ebbc38f69577d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022994bc65af23543dfa58856cd25a8ed76\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002283c1d7b1ae8640b583f98b34349df7bd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223bb42756a55e4d008b806d242d65edbb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5a61304b9944d2ea01eed26b9756add\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224f7be99488ef4e558eb6eb0f50fc4304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5a61304b9944d2ea01eed26b9756add\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Committee divide the bill into the Education (School Enrolment and Attendance) Amendment Bill and the Education (Literacy and Numeracy Standards) Amendment Bill, pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228dd7a107df154cb180247a0bcd212197\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000292\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000293\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022 data-id=\u002262ac9edf4c0a4f7a9b8165eb818cec55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262ac9edf4c0a4f7a9b8165eb818cec55\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill is set down for third reading forthwith. Just before I call the honourable Minister, I would like to make a comment, because I expect this debate will be robust as the issues are matters that are deeply held. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003EI have been listening to the debate with a lot of interest this morning, and I think it is timely, since we are debating national standards in education, to remind members of the House of the way the Standing Orders require us to address each other in this House. When a member is speaking, he or she is the first person, and is perfectly entitled to use \u201CI\u201D and \u201Cwe\u201D. The second person in this Chamber is the Speaker, so when members use the word \u201Cyou\u201D in the second person, they are referring to the Speaker. Members cannot say: \u201CMinister, you said something\u201D, because that would be referring to the Speaker. The other side of the House is the third person\u2014\u201Che\u201D or \u201Cthey\u201D. I just remind all members of that, for the benefit of new members and front-bench members as well, because the debate will become much more personal when someone says: \u201CJoe Bloggs, you did this.\u201D That is out of order, because that is in the second person, and the member would be referring to the Speaker. So with that said, honourable members, I call the Minister, the Hon Anne Tolley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022686526fd3041422bb89cc1b025aff6d1\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022 data-id=\u002231d1be4a8b3344c29f9245a19d12ea68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231d1be4a8b3344c29f9245a19d12ea68\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. This bill delivers on two promises that our Government made to the New Zealand public during the recent election campaign. Those promises were, first of all, to amend the Education Act 1989 so that the Minister of Education could set national standards in literacy and numeracy; and, secondly, to amend the Education Act 1989 to increase the current fines for parents of truant children from $150 and $400 for first time and repeat offenders, respectively, and to allow the Ministry of Education to take prosecutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EThis bill gives the Minister of Education an explicit power to set national standards in literacy and numeracy. These standards are not set in this legislation, and they will be set next year after consultation with the education sector. The standards will apply to State schools, and will apply to students in years 1 to 8. I think that what has been lost completely on the Opposition, in the debate around this legislation, is the fact that parents overwhelmingly voted for this policy. I have spoken to parents all around the country, and they want to know, in clear, plain English, how their child is going in mathematics, reading, and writing, and how their child is doing compared with other children in their year group. Parents saw that this was National Party policy, they voted for it on that basis, and that is why I am proud to see this legislation being passed through the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EI am also greatly looking forward to going around the country and telling parents that Labour voted against national standards. Labour had the opportunity to vote for a real change in our education system\u2014one that focuses on excellence and aspiration\u2014but instead Labour members went for the partisan and ridiculous decision to vote against literacy and numeracy standards for some of our youngest New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EThis policy will see standards set, which this legislation allows the Minister of Education to do. It will see students regularly assessed against these standards, using a range of assessment tools currently in use. The policy will see parents receive reports on their child\u2019s progress, in plain English. It will see school boards include in their school charters the board\u2019s priorities and targets for assessing students against the standards. And it will see schools report on this as part of their normal planning and reporting processes. Good assessment data is an important tool to drive school improvement. Assessment information helps teachers to see whether students have mastered the intended learning, ensures that students are aware of their own progress, and ensures that parents are able to monitor how well their children are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EAt a system level, assessment information can provide parents, communities, boards of trustees, and the Government with an overview of the performance of the system, of particular schools, and of specific groups of students. Schools are increasingly using new, more sophisticated assessment tools to track student achievement. The data generated has the potential to provide rich information to teachers, students, parents, and boards of trustees about student progress. Despite the availability of these assessment tools, the Education Review Office reported in March 2007 that 56 percent of schools reviewed at that time were not using worthwhile achievement data when setting targets in their charters. This Government\u2019s focus on literacy and numeracy will provide a backbone to allow students to fully enjoy and excel in the wide variety of other subjects they will study at primary and secondary schools. But the focus also recognises that English and mathematics are international languages, and that it is not good enough for children not to get the best possible start in these disciplines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003ESecondly, this bill honours our promise to raise the fines for parents who deliberately allow their children to be truant, and allows the Ministry of Education to take prosecutions. It is scandalous that on any given day more than 30,000 students are likely to be absent from school. The maximum fine for a first offence is currently $150, and the maximum fine for a second offence is $400. This bill raises the maximum level of fines to $300 for a first offence and $3,000 for a second or subsequent offence. Parents also commit an offence if they fail to enrol their child at school, and the level of fine for this offence will be raised from $1,000 to a maximum of $3,000. The $3,000 is the maximum level of fine. Judges will still have the discretion to consider a number of factors when deciding the level of fine to impose. Let me again assure members in this House that prosecuting parents is a last-resort intervention to be used for persistent, unjustified, and parent-condoned truancy. Prosecution is for when all other alternatives fail. But we know from a streamlined truancy prosecution trial that prosecution and the threat of prosecution does work to help get children engaged in school again. The bill will also allow the Secretary for Education to take prosecutions, either to assist the school by taking the prosecution, or to act when chronic, parent-condoned truancy is identified and a school does not take action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003EI am extremely proud to see this bill progress through the House. I believe that it begins the task of raising standards of achievement and attendance in New Zealand schools. If members believe in standards in education, if members believe in providing parents with clear and easy-to-understand information about their child\u2019s achievement, and if members believe that children who are currently falling behind in literacy and numeracy should be given the opportunity to achieve at the level of their peers, then I urge members to vote for this bill. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d26a4fcbe6b246569a99455061557d7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d26a4fcbe6b246569a99455061557d7a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party is opposed to this Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill for two reasons. First of all, we are opposed to it because of its process. Standardised testing\u2014and, indeed, truancy itself\u2014is an intensely controversial subject. The issue of testing in primary schools has been canvassed in the election campaign. It was very controversial then; it is very controversial now. We believe that the public\u2014parents, teachers, educational experts, the Schools Trustees Association, and the wider community\u2014should have the right to participate in this debate. The bill is being rammed through under urgency; the public, especially the education sector, has had no chance to have an input. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EThe rather hapless new Minister of Education, Mrs Tolley, has begun her time as Minister of Education. She and the other Government members, like with any new Government\u2014it won the election; it has the right to govern\u2014now have a period in which there is a sense of the community saying how they will be, and wishing them well. I am sure they have had this as they have moved around in the last couple of weeks. There is a sense of the community saying: \u201CWhat does it mean?\u201D and \u201CLet us give them a chance.\u201D, and in Mrs Tolley\u2019s first week in her job she has squandered a great opportunity. She has said to the community and the education sector that they can have no input, and that they have no value in this controversial area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EPeople in the community have also seen this particular new Minister break her word. I was present when she said that the 90-day rule would not apply to support staff, and my colleague Steve Chadwick was present in Rotorua when Mrs Tolley said it would not apply to teachers. In fact, the whole country got to see it on television the other night on a YouTube video. Mrs Tolley said that the 90-day rule, which the Government has just brought in and which means that employees in small enterprises can be sacked for no reason, would not apply to teachers. It does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI see the Minister is shaking her head. Well, on Tuesday the Minister will have the opportunity to tell me and the House whether she said the thing seen by every New Zealander watching Television One.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf69bb60f9ed474f92a8e0164a1266d6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: She told me I was making it up when I asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d0fcbfc6c5d426686b0442436387b6a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, did she? Well, we will see. She is shaking her head. She has said twice today\u2014and, I think, yesterday\u2014that she did not say it. Well, she will have the chance to say that in question time on Tuesday, and if she gainsays on record that she did not say it, then we will have a very interesting situation. We will look forward to developing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI am saying in the context of the bill that the new Minister of Education had the chance to capitalise on goodwill\u2014goodwill that has already been squandered on appearing to tell an untruth around the 90-day rule, and also on treating the education sector and the community with contempt by saying that these very controversial matters about standardised testing for primary school age students is not something that people should have input about. So the process of this bill is something that we utterly reject. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWhat about the content of this bill? We have talked about how this bill initially appears to be a nothing bill. Of course, the National Educational Guidelines already say that primary and middle schools must assess data on literacy and numeracy, they must report that to parents, they must have ongoing improvements in that area, and they must have a robust process about assessing the tools that they use. They have a wonderful battery of tools, which we have heard about many times in the last few hours: asTTle, PROBE, the progressive achievement test, and the literacy and numeracy progressions that are being trialled in all primary schools at the moment. Those are the tools that we have. They are national standards, if you like, in literacy and numeracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EThis bill is really about\u2014and this is the subtle Trojan Horse content that my new colleague Iain Lees-Galloway from Palmerston North talked about\u2014introducing the concept of competition and league tables between primary schools, and compounding the differences between schools. It does nothing to really address the question of literacy and numeracy. I also think that it implies a connection between teacher quality and test results. Performance pay has long been a right-wing ambition. I again come back to Heather Roy\u2019s speech in the House, where she talked about choice and competition in education and about reshaping New Zealand education. I think this ties in well with that Chilean model I talked about before, where those sorts of policies have had such disastrous results. It is about introducing the concept of making teachers accountable for the exam results of their students\u2014not for their learning, but for their exam results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003ELooking over to the other side of the House I see that we have some new National MPs from diverse communities\u2014for example, the Korean and Sikh communities. This reminds me that in our country, where one New Zealander in four was born outside New Zealand, 22 percent of young New Zealanders come from homes where English is a second language. They may be fluent in English, but the operating language in that home is not English. How will this 22 percent of our young Kiwis compare in a one-off literacy snapshot taken in primary schools? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EIn addition, Mrs Tolley never answered\u2014she answered very little in the Committee stage\u2014the question about who will be tested. What about special needs pupils? What about children with mild as well as serious learning barriers\u2014children with attention deficit disorder or dyslexia, for example? Will these children be part of the testing regime that will take place in primary schools? This issue has been enormously controversial in the UK. There, all students in the school have been required to sit the test. Even in schools with high numbers of special needs students\u2014whether it is behavioural or physical disability that has impacted on their ability to learn\u2014these students will be part of any comparative data, again compounding the inequities and stupid foolishness of league tables.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EEducation is something that the Labour Party feels very passionate about. When our party was established in 1916, over 102 years ago\u2014Labour is the oldest political party in New Zealand\u2014the people who set it up were trade unionists and workers. Many of them were recent migrants from the UK, where the class barrier had been a total obstacle to their children fulfilling their potential. They saw education as the key to climbing the ladder of opportunity. Indeed, when the first Labour Government was set up in the 1930s and we had the historic partnership between Clarence Beeby and Peter Fraser, education was the key for that first Government to try to realise the potential of young New Zealanders. That first Labour Government introduced free secondary education, because it saw education as a tool. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI am touching on this historic material because I am trying to say to this House and to anybody who is listening to the House today that education, for Labour politicians, is something we are passionate about. We are passionate about it because we believe in having a quality public education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWe heard from Metiria Turei earlier today\u2014and it was new information for me\u2014that King\u2019s College in Auckland, the school that Mr Key\u2019s son attends, I believe, will be receiving $1.2 million under the promise made by the new National Government to double the amount of funding for private schools. We have already heard in this House that there will be no extra money for education in the coming Budget. It will be very interesting to see how Mrs Tolley deals with that with the education sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EI was Minister of Education in a Government that doubled education spending, and I was constantly lambasted, from the sector and in this House by the Opposition, about not giving enough. We can never give enough money to education. But we are hearing already that private education will receive an endowment\u2014a doubling, from $40 million to $80 million. We have heard of some extravagant promises being made to schools in places like Upper Hutt. For example, Heretaunga College in Chris Hipkins\u2019 electorate was promised $30 million. Either these promises will be broken or the money will be sucked out of the State education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EIt is in the State education system where the real challenges in literacy and numeracy are found. They are found in our low-decile schools, they are found in the lack of participation in early childhood education, and it is there that we are going to make the real difference in literacy and numeracy outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f9853a3774e45c78a6f6aecd156ead0\u0022\u003EWe are opposed to this bill because we think that the issues it touches on are incredibly controversial and should have public participation. We are worried about the hidden agenda. I will finish by saying that there is a word that comes to me from Roman history\u2014pyrrhic. This is a pyrrhic victory. Yes, National will win today, but it will lose so much that it will be damaged in the conflict in 2011 to see who will be the Government. We will keep this Government accountable in education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3a8b33ba6bc429c8b3005865bb4391f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3a8b33ba6bc429c8b3005865bb4391f\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E We have had the soft bigotry of low expectations about our children, from that side of the House. What is it about the dogma of socialism, the creed of socialism, that forces the Labour Party and its Green allies to tell over a fifth of New Zealand\u2019s children that you cannot be expected to learn? They say: \u201CWe will vote against the best prospect you have had in a generation to have the opportunity to learn to read, to write, and to do mathematics so that you can take your place as a full and contributing member of our community and to our economy.\u201D What is it about socialist creed and dogma that means a fifth of our children have to fail? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EI listened with interest to the Green Party list member Metiria Turei quoting left-wing leafy suburb American academics on the schools left behind. I know some of these people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e54a8bebd3784255a89a29da6cf86116\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s 45th in the world, the worst in the Western World, the United States, under that policy; the worst.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224b96e56512544a9b8c9a2a14502ec6e\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am coming to Mr Mallard shortly. Let me tell you that when you go into the slums and the ghettos\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d92d75b506c0467db3176b1e3cc9e553\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am just reminding you of your exhortation to us before we started today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c38ac8e409ee4d50b808cf0eedde791a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226779119c885044d481d57c4d0d3339b0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has made a good point. I do not like members\u2019 speeches being interrupted, but they should remember that when they say \u201Cyou\u201D they are bringing the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220911e9f06ed047c294acc94cdc2684c5\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I do apologise. It is a lack of practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EWhen people go into the slums in the American cities and meet the mothers of children who, as a result of the No Child Left Behind policy, have been moved to a school where children can learn, after attending a school that for two generations has failed children, those mothers say: \u201CMister, please don\u2019t let them make my child go back to that school.\u201D What is it about the socialist creed and dogma that means that members on that side of the House have argued today that a group of our children should be left stranded in schools in which they are not learning? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003ETen years ago, on 26 March 1998, the Evening Post stated: \u201CPrimary school students could sit national tests regardless of which major political party is in power. \u2026 proposals by Labour education spokesman Trevor Mallard.\u201D This is what Mr Mallard said, and can I express the hope that he will get up in a minute and explain himself: \u201Cthe results would show which schools failed to teach children at the required level, and principals could tell which teachers were not up to scratch.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003EThis debate has been dominated by the soft bigotry of low expectations by the socialists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022 data-id=\u0022992cd58f4e374d30865f5290f02657a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022992cd58f4e374d30865f5290f02657a7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I sometimes do not know whether to take Mr Peachey seriously. I do not think there has been a Minister in the history of the New Zealand education system who has closed more schools, who has taken out more boards of trustees that were not performing, and who has intervened more in order to performance-manage principals out of their jobs when schools were failing, than me. But just about every time I did that, National members criticised. Time after time they went in to bat for schools like Waiwhetu School, which was failing its kids. They went in to bat for schools like St Stephen\u2019s School, which was failing its kids and whose kids were being beaten up, time and time again. I wonder about who has had the low expectations and who have been the people who went in to bat for failing schools, not in order to reinforce them but to keep them going in their failing state. I do not believe Mr Peachey now; I used to take him pretty seriously. He was someone who had a contribution to make\u2014not something I always agreed with\u2014and he was generally much more reasoned than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThere is a history in New Zealand of Ministers of Education focusing on teaching and learning. I think it was something that grew through the 1990s and into this decade. My view is that as a result of the work of yourself, Mr Speaker, of Wyatt Creech, of me myself, and latterly of some others\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c97346554364fcda68494a27554ea3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0c708ed2b3848f4a1f0088d8715803b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Generous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd61606a600140a59fb64749b2c8299c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there was not as much time, and they changed a bit often. The point I am making is that people from around the world come and look at our teaching and learning systems, especially in the literacy area. And that is where the focus should be. The point made by the principal of Anne Tolley\u2019s \u014Cp\u014Dtiki College\u2014that we do not make a pig fatter by measuring it\u2014is very, very important. I think it is important to measure. I think it is important to measure, and I think it is an important part of the learning and feedback loop. But doing that measuring should be part of that teaching and learning loop, not something that is nationally imposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister whether this is really the most pressing issue in education at the moment in her entire portfolio. I cannot believe that this is the most pressing issue. We are debating it under urgency. Is she so arrogant to believe that no one else could possibly have a view that would improve this legislation? I just cannot believe that a Minister of Education, who is meant to know about personal learning, does not seem to know that she can always improve her work\u2014all of us can. I do not believe that she cannot take the views of others, and that she cannot take a bill to a select committee. It might well be that she is perfect. It might well be that this bill does exactly what she wants it to do. If that was so, then that would be tremendous reinforcement for the Minister; the accolades would flow. But it is my view that that is unlikely, and I say that the Minister has abused process in her very first legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EThe next point I will make is that the Minister is saying that she is putting $18 million of new money into this legislation. That is the equivalent of about 1.5 percent of the operations grant. I will apply the same question: is this the highest priority for spending in the education portfolio? We have heard a lot about truancy officers recently in the debate\u2014whether we need more of them, and whether they can be more effective, given the tools that they have been given in this legislation, or the sledgehammers, baseball bats, or whatever is flowing out of this. I ask the Minister whether she considered putting $2 million or $3 million out of this $18 million into helping truancy officers, where it would make a tremendous difference. She says that, no, she did not consider it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022645bb2f43ac74324bcef08711059a418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531f62c2e15b4bab87fcfe06f98569cf\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: We did!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232bba69e9f1a41f7bfec13305e15f6d9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am assuming that the Minister knows that when she shakes her head, that means no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3ded0e2988b45ac9f31aca01a6c30e4\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: How does she know that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dd34f6b33e34707adca3afd91a99aef\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: She was responding to the question \u201CDo you know what a vice-chancellor is?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI am really, really saddened, because in my view $18 million can be better spent. I ask the Minister whether she has taken the sum to Cabinet, whether she has an agreement for it to go into the Imprest, or whether it is part of the Supplementary Estimates. She has not responded, so I assume from that that she has not. It means that this Minister has again breached process; she has made an announcement, she is involved in illegal spending, or, what I think is much, much more likely, she has cut another part of the education budget\u2014she has taken money away from schools\u2014in order to put it into her pet project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI will make a comment about league tables. The Minister is quoted in yesterday\u2019s Dominion Post as saying: \u201Cthe full data obtained would be available only to the Government.\u201D\u2014that is, data from schools as a whole. I say to the Minister that she cannot say that. Schools are subject to the Official Information Act. School by school, board of trustee by board of trustee, and principal by principal, they are subject to the Official Information Act. Any local newspaper can apply under the Official Information Act to the schools in their region for their results, and the schools must give those results to them. There are no grounds for a school not to give aggregative results. There would be grounds for them not to give individual pupil results. That could be argued; on the face of the Act schools would have to give results pupil by pupil. But I think there would be an argument under the Act for not giving individual pupil results. Certainly, there is no argument for not giving results school by school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister whether she has contemplated the possibility of those results being available on a teacher by teacher basis. I want to know whether that is the secret agenda here. We have talked about a Trojan Horse, but I ask the Minister whether she is prepared to give an undertaking to the House, through her next National speaker, that she will ensure that the next education legislation will make it clear that teacher by teacher results will not be available. No, she has chosen not to give that undertaking, which I think confirms what her agenda is. Maybe it is deliberate; maybe she wants the results, teacher by teacher, in the local newspaper. That might be a valid approach from a National point of view. It is clearly a lead in, if that is the case, to some sort of performance pay arrangement, but it absolutely undermines the possibility of positive teaching and learning models. The work we have done under asTTle makes it absolutely clear that we can get that teacher by teacher information, not in a gross form but in some very narrow areas of finely tuned information to assist teachers with their professional development. If the Minister is saying that that professional support work will then be spread into the Hutt News, the Kapiti Observer, the Waikato Times, or the New Zealand Herald, then I say that that will be a major retrograde step for education in New Zealand. I think that any sensible Minister would have sent the legislation to the select committee for the committee to look at the pitfalls. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u002247563a638368468bab829c7e3d8db905\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247563a638368468bab829c7e3d8db905\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is very clear that the Green Party is opposing the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. I want to talk about both issues\u2014the truancy fine increase, and the national standards. We have discovered in the debate on this legislation, given that there has been no select committee consideration and, therefore, no input at all from anybody involved in the implementation of these policies, that there is no information. The Minister has no information\u2014she has not presented any to show us that this legislation is necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThere is no evidence that increasing the truancy fines from $1,000 to $3,000 will make a single bit of difference to the truancy rates in this country. The Minister has failed to provide any evidence that shows this is necessary. In fact, she herself in the debate has confessed that it is the threat of prosecution that has the greatest impact on families and on reducing truancy rates, than fining them. So why on earth would the National Government decide in its first piece of legislation, in its first week in the House, to increase the fines for truancy from $1,000 to $3,000? Maybe it is because it needs the cash. It has made huge promises to the private schooling sector, and it has to find the money from somewhere. The Minister will not get any new money out of the Prime Minister or the Minister of Finance because they have already said there is none, so maybe this is one way of doing it. Maybe it is also following on from the tax increases for the poor, and from the 90-day bill. Maybe this is just another way of punishing poor people for being poor. Why not attack them in their wallet where they are the most vulnerable and where they have the least resources? That appears to be the National Party agenda and policy for low-income people in this country. This week has proved that to be the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe are dealing with families that are in extreme turmoil. I have described this before, and I will do so again. Many of these low-income families have very insecure employment. As a result, they have highly insecure housing. It is very difficult to get housing in some of these areas. Many of these families are being forced into sharing accommodation, and completely unsatisfactory arrangements, as a result of poverty and poor housing. There is increasing illness and poor nutrition for the children who are trying to get an education. Poverty increases the mobility of those families. The parents have to move around more because they simply cannot afford to keep paying the rent on their own place, or if they get another job, they may have to move home and shift their children from school to school. This means that children become highly dislocated from their communities. They are unable to put down roots in their community or in their school. They are unable to develop long-term relationships with teachers or build the trust that children need to have with a school and their school community in order to achieve. Children find it very difficult to build long-term relationships with friends when they have to move from school to school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EAll of that impacts directly on their achievements. Children who have to change schools every few months or even every 6 months find it very difficult to keep up their level of achievement in this incredibly dislocated, fragile environment. The relationship that children then have with the State system and the schooling system overall is very fragile and fragmented. It builds mistrust between the children and the schooling system. Children then become despondent. Why would children want to go to school if they know that every few months they have to go to a new school, meet new teachers, and deal with new kids? Children who are living a life of extreme poverty have to deal with the social impacts of that poverty and the new impacts of it every few months as they deal with new kids and new environments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EPoverty is the cause of the long tail of underachievement for our young children and our young people, and the cause of increasing truancy rates. Where is the National Party social policy that deals with poverty? We have had some legislation already in this first week that shows tax increases for the poor and greater insecurity of unemployment through the 90-day bill. Even the amendments to bail conditions mean that a lot of those people will suffer more. That is the kind of social policy we are getting. There is no investment in communities, no investment in the education system for low-decile schools, no investment in the incomes of these low-income people, and no investment in housing. We have already seen that National is going to keep homes cold, damp, and so poorly insulated that many of our children will continue to suffer from asthma, eczema, glue ear, and other health conditions that result from very poor housing. National refuses to do anything about those poverty aspects that contribute to underachievement and truancy. Instead, National will fine these families for truancy, and increase the fine from $1,000 to $3,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EIn addition, the bill sets out the national standards and testing regime that the National Party has been campaigning on and the ACT Party is very committed to, following on from its genesis in the US. That is the market approach to education and the No Child Left Behind policy that was put in place in 2000. I have described this before, and I am pleased to do so once again. The national standards policy failed in the US and in other countries where similar policies have been put in place. It failed. The research proves that it failed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e76b507130834714960e625c3a764d78\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: Not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d49d1a4465a0417cab2fe09c23dde6fe\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: There was not a single piece of evidence from National to say that it had succeeded. Allan Peachey simply argued that it is all socialism, which is not the most intelligent argument I have ever heard when talking about real evidence and real research. I am sorry, I say to Mr Peachey, but it was an appalling piece of speech-making on his part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe policy has failed overseas, and the research proves it. How has it failed? Teachers are teaching to the test, and not to the skills, opportunities, and developmental potential of the children themselves. Expectations for black children and poor children have lowered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdf2a311deba4c80af1d007417fec3b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9555c3ccb4b43b38b1b015dd4f256e6\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: They wouldn\u2019t do that; they\u2019ve got too much integrity!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229acd704fb9aa4270a2b4d633bdb41d55\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: Again, we hear that rhetoric from Allan Peachey that proves those members simply will not accept the facts, but are just working on ideology. Improving schools were still branded as failures and were punished as a result. Those polices punished those schools and prevented them from being able to improve any further. Students were kept from being able to sit tests or were held back from advancing through the normal year\u2019s progression because they were considered to be unable or unlikely to pass the test, and schools did not want those kinds of marks on their record. Black children, poor children, and disabled children fell behind in achievement in the 8 years that the policy has been in place in the US. As a result, the drop-out rate for black children, poor children, or disabled children in the US increased by 17 percent in just 2 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThat policy failed to close the gaps or increase achievement. It increased the market ideology in the education system, forcing poor ethnic communities out of education. That is what the National Party\u2019s policy clearly does. It clearly keeps these kids out of education. Why? Who knows? It is completely irrational and it is not understandable. I do not think there is anything in here except this blind ideology towards a market approach to education, despite the fact that it is demonstrably a failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI want to address some of the concerns of the M\u0101ori Party. I found Anne Tolley\u2019s sycophantic condescension towards M\u0101ori absolutely appalling in this debate. The National Party\u2019s refusal to support the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s motion to split the bill so its members could oppose the truancy fines whilst supporting educational standards is an obvious example of National\u2019s absolute disregard for real M\u0101ori interests. There has been a historical degradation of M\u0101ori education, not just for decades but for over a century. Not a single Government has ever been able to deal properly with the differences between M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 in terms of educational achievement. Every policy so far has failed because the M\u0101ori tikanga policy has not been at the heart of M\u0101ori education policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI can see why the M\u0101ori Party might be attracted to this policy, but it has demonstrably failed ethnic communities everywhere else in the world. There is nothing to show that it will not fail our own wh\u0101nau. I make a personal plea to the M\u0101ori Party to ask them please to not support this bill. Do not support increasing fines for our wh\u0101nau from $1,000 to $3,000. Do not support policy that is demonstrably failing ethnic communities and poor communities everywhere in the world, when we know that it is our wh\u0101nau who are the ethnic communities and the poor communities in our own country. This policy promise made by Anne Tolley and those members on that side of the Chamber is an empty, failed promise. Again, this policy will deliver nothing for our M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau, just as similar policies of previous Governments have always failed to deliver for us. This bill will do enormous damage to our public education system. It is the first step in the marketisation of education. I urge all parties, and particularly the M\u0101ori Party, to please not support this bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022 data-id=\u002237190adbffdc42f0b96cdf20c18a42be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237190adbffdc42f0b96cdf20c18a42be\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the third reading of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill on behalf of the ACT Party. The comments from the Opposition are a sad reflection on how those members consider progressive policies. If members believe the Green member Metiria Turei, they would think that this bill is about punishing poor people for being poor. In fact, Metiria Turei said exactly that. That certainly is not what this bill is about. If she took a moment to read the bill, she would see that it is about trying to advantage the children in New Zealand society who, at the moment, are severely disenfranchised from the educative process. That is what we should be striving for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EThis bill is actually about expectations, and a number of speakers on this side of the Chamber have made that point very eloquently. It is about expectations and about setting expectations for our children. It is about setting expectations for their parents to get them to school. It is about setting expectations for those who participate in our educational system. Most of all, it is about expecting that we should strive for excellence in education and equality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EEvery child, regardless of family income, should have the right to quality education. No child should be left behind just because of where he or she lives, or because of their parents\u2019 financial position. We should also not forget that education is first, last, and always about children. It is not about Government or bureaucrats; it is about children. It is about children, and it is about parents being able to access quality education for their children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EThis bill is about raising standards of achievement and attendance in the compulsory education sector. One might not realise, after listening to Opposition members, that there are two parts to the bill. Those members have just focused on the piece that they fear most, and that is about numeracy and literacy standards being elevated and reached. The first part of the bill is about school enrolment and attendance, and how important that is for our children, but the Opposition has not focused on that part of the bill. Parents will, under this bill, be increasingly held liable for the actions of the children in their care, and they will be made aware that regular truancy will not be accepted. That message needs to get through loud and clear. Children who do not turn up for school will not learn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003ESecondly, and most important, this bill will introduce national standards in literacy and numeracy. I have a question for the Opposition. Why is it so bad that schools will be required to report to parents\u2014in plain language, as the Minister pointed out\u2014on how their children are doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229b6f88c6edfa44aabdcdb18b95e1c7f8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277d5da10f61740f2a88ec24e1b5651b0\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: They already are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c747603005cd4dca88a2afe2ea9b2db2\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: They are not. I tell Ms Mackey that a lot of information is withheld from parents at the moment. Parents should have the right to have access to all assessment information, and that is what will be required under this legislation. Many schools already test students, but they are not required to do so, and at the moment they do not have to tell parents the results of the tests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a7900a2d6b14438a38e5a30b911f48a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf8af74fd2f942b89f8670c4ec990eeb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: They are required to do so. Read the NAGs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db81e57e0cb843e68cfead22d1f6587f\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mallard has been out of education for far too long if he thinks that that is the case. Under the law change, schools must provide parents with all the assessment information collected about their child, and must also pass on the aggregate information data, and that is right and proper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EThis bill is a good first step. That is what ACT sees it as. It is a good first step to improving education across the board for all children in New Zealand. But it must be followed, in my view, by further work. In particular, there is a lot of work to do on the curriculum, and that must follow hand in hand with this work, and with the best vehicles to realise those expectations that I talked about\u2014the expectation of excellence, the expectation of good-quality access, and the expectation of equality. All children, regardless of family income and regardless of where they live, should be able to access quality education. School choice is important in that equation, and the ACT Party, in negotiating our support agreement with National, talked a lot about school choice. We are looking forward to the establishment of the inter-party working group. We are looking forward to working with the National Government to lift and boost the level of education across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a3090432f784ef89bde0266dcd2202e\u0022\u003EACT supports this bill. I will finish with this comment; I said it in the first reading speech that I gave yesterday. It is important that we have high-level goals and be mindful of why we want to boost education standards in the first place. Education is the key to our long-term prosperity as a country. We need our next generation to have the skills and the creativity needed to thrive in the 21st century, not to look back to the 19th century. There is a lot of work to be done, but this is a very important first step. The ACT Party supports the National Government in this very important initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac640111a0d047fe9ac16c19f741031a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac640111a0d047fe9ac16c19f741031a\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E On 8 November 2008 New Zealanders voted for a brighter future, and this Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill lays an appropriate foundation for that, inasmuch as it covers two vital aspects: the national standards and truancy. If members look at the explanatory note of the bill, they will see that the national standards will not impose enormous amounts of workload on our schools, as is being argued by members from across the floor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EThe explanatory note talks about using existing assessment tools. I think that is quite appropriate, because the Education Review Office tells us that 56 percent of schools are not using those existing assessment tools adequately, so this bill becomes very important. It also sets out the requirement for plain language reporting back to mums and dads and to carers. That is very important, because about 50 percent of schools are not doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EI will just address for a couple of seconds a comment that the member Clayton Cosgrove and others made\u2014that this requirement can be handled within existing regulations. I would point out to the member that it has been in the regulations for a long time and that the implicit expression has not achieved what is desired by members on this side of the House. Therefore, we will state it explicitly within the primary legislation. That is what this bill achieves, so members should bear that in mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EWe have to work harder to make sure that we raise educational standards. Mums, dads, and carers are part of that; teachers are part of that; and setting understandable standards and expectations is part of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220538b2259cb8448c9ed8c85fa5f40551\u0022\u003EIn regard to truancy, that had grown by 40 percent under Labour. The fine of $3,000 at the extreme end is a deterrent that will be applied to wilful offenders only. There is community responsibility here, and we must remember that this bill is a very important foundation on which to build a brighter, better education system in the future. That is what mum and dad Kiwi voters voted for on 8 November\u2014a brighter future. They want a brighter future for their children. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022 data-id=\u0022efc578fe7d3e4e1a856ec8a057e43d83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efc578fe7d3e4e1a856ec8a057e43d83\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the third reading debate on the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. It seems quite appropriate for me, as a new member, to be talking about education because the passage of this bill through Parliament in the last few hours has been quite an education to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cc6f15964ac45128bb7790f1c8f3a8a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s about process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220537903e69da4a1eb4b18e80ae533680\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes; process. Even though this bill has been shunted through under urgency, I have come to understand that the process has its benefits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EWhen we first sat down and looked at this bill we thought it was nothing. We thought it was flimflam; we thought it was a space-filler. We thought that the Government was so desperate to look like it was doing something that it had put down something quite innocuous that it could rush through, and it would look like it had its action plan. It would look like its priority action plan was under way. Mr Twyford called it a hologram. It looked like it was something, but there was nothing there. But Mr Twyford called it something else, as well. He called it a Trojan Horse, and that is what it is. As the onion has been peeled away, layer by layer, as this bill is progressed quickly through Parliament, we have come to realise that this bill is something more. It is not just flimflam; it actually has a secret, hidden agenda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EThis bill does two things. Firstly, it lays down the foundation for a complete change in the way we look at the education system in this country. It lays down the foundation for league tables. It lays down the foundation for greater privatisation\u2014the ACT Party is looking forward to it. It lays down the foundation for widening the gap between poor schools and rich schools. It lays down the foundation for stigmatising the children of low-decile schools. It lays down the foundation to publish teacher by teacher results and to make those available. It is blazing a trail for a major restructure in the way our education system works in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EThe bill does something else. The second thing it does is demonise good parents. It is sending a message. We have heard a lot from the Government about sending a message. Personally, when I want to send a message, I might send a text, I might send an email, or, if I am feeling a bit nostalgic, I might nip down to New Zealand Post and send a message that way. But now I have found out that there is a new way. If I want to send a message I will go and see Simon Power or Anne Tolley, or I might go and see Heather Roy, and I will get them to write a piece of legislation for me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EThis bill is sending a message all right; it is sending a message to New Zealand that there is an underclass of bad parents out there who need to be fined and whom we need to go after with prosecutions. The message is that they are bad parents who have no interest in their children\u2019s education and that they need to be told off. They need to be told off for their bad behaviour. Let us think about what is really going on in families with truant children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003ELet us look into the future and think about what the situation might be. Let us think about a solo mum with three kids. Let us suppose that all the kids are now at school. She might have one at intermediate school and a couple at primary school. They are all at school now, so it is no more domestic purposes benefit for her now, is it. She has to get off the domestic purposes benefit, and she has to get work. She could not get work that fitted around school hours, but she had to take something because her domestic purposes benefit was on the line; she would be in trouble if she did not take what was on offer. She manages to get the little one to primary school, but the kid who is at intermediate school has to go alone because mum has to get herself to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EShe then finds out that, through no fault of her own, her eldest child is truanting. The school calls her up. It wants to see her doing something about it; otherwise, she will be in line for a fine. What does she do? She has managed to get that new job, and she has been given a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D offer of a 90-day probation period. She is sitting there at work. What does she do? Does she leap up and sort out what is happening with her child, and face being sacked on the spot, or does she stay there and risk a fine, and, more important, does she risk her child not achieving at school because that child is truant, a situation that has come about because she is under so much pressure at work? Will that be the situation we see as a result of the raft of legislation we are seeing pushed through this place? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EA family in such a situation might be a working family that, as a result of the tax bill we have seen, will have their taxes go up. This working family might have two parents who are both working, and who are under the same pressure, so they have no time for their family and no time to pay attention to what is going on in their family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EI know that the National Party is not too keen on research. We saw that with the taxation bill as well, but National has told us, I do not know how many times, to be very careful when we start citing research. So I went in search of something that National members may think has some substance. I found a report to the US Department of Justice\u2014hardly what one would call a soft, left-wing organisation. The report talks a lot about the role of prosecution and the role of fines, in amongst a discussion of a raft of other initiatives to do with truancy. It talks about four correlates of truancy: family factors, school factors, economic influences, and student variables. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EThe first one, family factors\u2014which is actually the only one that I think could possibly be what the Government is trying to deal with in respect of this legislation\u2014includes a lack of guidance or parental supervision, domestic violence, poverty, drug or alcohol abuse in the home, lack of awareness of attendance laws, and differing attitudes towards education. How on earth will putting the paddy wagon at the bottom of the cliff deal with these issues? If the Government were serious about truancy, it would not have this bill going through under urgency, and it would not make this measure its first priority. It might be something the Government put in the mix, but it would be looking at domestic violence and poverty, trying to deal with drug and alcohol abuse, trying to deal with a lack of understanding of attendance laws, and trying to deal with differing attitudes towards education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EThis bill is the most Draconian option the Government has. Why has it gone with the most Draconian option? It is because it wants New Zealand to believe that there is an underclass of bad parents out there. It wants us to be able to point the finger and say: \u201CIt\u2019s your fault, parents, that your children are not getting to school.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003ELet us consider some of the school factors. These include school climate issues, such as school size; attitudes of teachers, other students, and administrators; and inflexibility in meeting the diverse cultural and learning styles of the students. Inflexibility in meeting the diverse cultures and learning styles of the students\u2014what could be more inflexible than bringing in national standards? What could be more inflexible than that? If we were really serious about dealing with truancy, then we would be looking at that. But, no, we are going in the opposite direction. It is back to the future; we are in reverse\u2014full on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EEconomic influences mentioned in the report include employed students, single-parent homes, high mobility rates, parents who hold multiple jobs, and the lack of affordable transportation and childcare. The Green Party member talked a lot about the minimum wage and investing in communities. In fact, I have canvassed educators in Palmerston North, and I will tell members what one of them said. I asked him what he would do about truancy, and he said he would do what the Labour Party would do. I said: \u201CSay that again?\u201D, and he repeated that he would do what the Labour Party would do. I asked him what he meant, and he said he meant investing in families. He talked about early intervention and not putting the paddy wagon at the bottom of the cliff. He talked about putting the fence at the top of the cliff and getting on with the job of dealing with the problem\u2014not trying to find someone to blame for the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222f336ffec62248f2808ce2922194c87d\u0022\u003EStudent variables include drug and alcohol abuse, lack of understanding of attendance laws, lack of social confidence, mental health difficulties, and poor physical health. These are the things we should be talking about if we are talking about truancy. It is not about fining parents or trying to demonise someone, and it is not about trying to go out there and say \u201CParents of New Zealand, you are doing a bad job, and the nanny National Government is coming to get you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022 data-id=\u00220a232e2a886145f5af8776ed77a12260\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a232e2a886145f5af8776ed77a12260\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou huri noa e te Whare. As I said in my maiden speech, I have high expectations of what is possible. I have greater faith in the schools and teachers than the Opposition does, because there are more good teachers than there are poor ones. But there are poor ones, and poor teachers will teach to the tests because poor teachers have always done that. The good teachers teach to the particular student and are happy to be involved in assessment so that their teaching and learning improves. If we are prepared to attribute student success to a successful teacher, then we should be equally prepared to draw the same link when failure is the outcome. If decile rankings condemn students to failure, as the Opposition seems to suggest, then I am one of those condemned students, as are my children and nieces and nephews, all of whom have been at low-decile schools. We had good teachers; that was the difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EIf the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill exposes that the profession has a mindset of failure towards decile rankings, which are purely a funding mechanism, then we will have done a service to our children. There has been wilful misunderstanding on the Opposition side of the House on the distinction between national standards and national testing. It is already being done. Why is the Opposition happy with national standards and national testing for secondary schools in the National Certificate of Educational Achievement? It is too late to find out then that our kids have come from their primary schools and are functionally illiterate and cannot count. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002206a922bed6a14b98beb3b7476213ff69\u0022\u003EThis bill is about the belief we have, at least on this side of the House, in the right of all New Zealand students to be given the best personalised learning, rather than being masked by those who are being successful. This bill is directed at achievement and participation. This bill is about lifting the citizenship chances of all New Zealanders. This bill is about believing in common enterprise between teachers, parents, and the Government for the best interests of every New Zealander. We can lead the world to change and not be stopped by what other countries could not or cannot do. I congratulate the Minister of Education on her ambition for our education system, and I commend this bill to the House. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7d1cf8fa1aa435d9f1f197cdee6d565\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7d1cf8fa1aa435d9f1f197cdee6d565\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to oppose the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill. What a shameful week for this Government. What a shameful beginning to the forty-ninth Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EFirst, National came for the low paid, with a tax package designed to line the pockets of its mates while those on low incomes pay more or get little or nothing. Next, National came for our savings\u2014taking to KiwiSaver with the scalpel, shattering the dreams of everyday Kiwis. Then National came for the scientists; it came for the innovators and inventors. We waved goodbye to research and development tax credits, and to the jobs of the future. So much for a bright future\u2014it does not involve research and development. Then National came for the workers. It came for the newest workers, the most vulnerable workers, and it said: \u201CWe are going to take away your rights.\u201D This is an assault on the fairness ethic of every New Zealander. A worker can be fired without justification and with no redress. That is the ultimate attack on the rights of a worker, and the right for workers to be able to have redress when they are unfairly treated. Then National came for the teachers, as well. It did so by including our hard-working professional teachers in the 90-day bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWith this bill, National came for the parents, the students, and the teachers. It attacked them by saying: \u201CWe do not trust you to put in place the standards that are already there, and, what\u2019s more, we do not want to hear from you. We don\u2019t want to hear from the teachers, we don\u2019t want to hear from the parents, and we don\u2019t want to hear from the students.\u201D It is an outrage for National to have come to this House in this first week and make all of those attacks on vulnerable and low-paid people, on our savings, and on our research and development, and then push all that legislation through under urgency, without any input from anybody across this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6a824debaec4b1ca6a54dd7731476a7\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, what a shameful week for this Government. Under urgency, it is ramming through legislation that takes away the rights of workers, money from the low paid, and money from research and development. Now we have this bill that says to teachers, parents, and children: \u201CWe don\u2019t trust you. We don\u2019t want to hear what you think about standards.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EIt is a bill that achieves nothing. It is designed to make the National Government look good. It is a bill to make sure that National can say that its bumper sticker slogans actually meant something. It is a bill that shows that National does not trust parents or teachers. It is a bill that piles on the red tape\u2014so much for cutting compliance costs! The bill has no logic, unless, of course, it is the logic of going somewhere else\u2014the Trojan Horse logic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003ENot one of these shameful bills has been open to public scrutiny. Parents, teachers, workers, the low paid, and savers have all been shut out by the National Government. I am not sure that National members know just how much damage this approach is doing to them. My office is taking calls from people who are appalled at the lack of due process from the National Government. On this side of the House we respect the result of the election. We are disappointed, of course\u2014we are reflective, even\u2014but we respect the result. On the Government benches, though, respect went out the door on the first day of the new Parliament. Those members have no respect for the people of New Zealand and no respect for the experts in the field of education. They are just ramming the bill through and making sure the voices are not heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWell, we on the Opposition benches have ensured that the voices have been heard. I draw the Minister of Education\u2019s attention to the words of the principal of \u014Cp\u014Dtiki College\u2014a college in her electorate. The principal said: \u201CNZ schools already regularly assess student progress to inform further strategies. There is no need to have a centrally imposed and driven programme which has the intention \u2026 of comparing students in one school with another. This [policy] is a populist strategy for which there is no credible research to support it.\u201D I say to Mrs Tolley that those are the words of the principal of \u014Cp\u014Dtiki College. They are the words that the National Government did not want to hear. It did not want to have a select committee process whereby people could come in and say what they thought of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThis is unnecessary legislation. We have heard from my colleague Kelvin Davis about the excellent work that has been done around assessing and reporting. We know that the National Administration Guidelines already require boards of trustees and schools to ensure that they give priority to student achievement in literacy and numeracy, and that they assess and gather information that is comprehensive enough to be able to enable the progress and achievement of students to be evaluated. The guidelines go on to say that schools have to report to students and their parents on the achievement of individual students. The guidelines are already there, so we ask ourselves why we are putting forward this bill. It is quite clear that we are doing so for purely political reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003ESetting national standards could be done by regulation; there is no need for a bill. But what is the problem with a regulation? The problem with a regulation is that it is subject to some scrutiny, and we know that the National Government does not want there to be any scrutiny. It did not want a select committee process, so it would not want any scrutiny of these standards. If the national standards were put in place by regulation, they would become part of the parliamentary process, and we cannot have that, because then people would have a say. We would have education experts telling us about the experiences they have had and about experiences overseas where this kind of approach has failed. This bill gives the Minister the power to gazette the standards\u2014no questions, no scrutiny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThe explanatory note of the bill tells us that this legislation is actually about sending a signal. It is not about students and it is not about children; it is about the National Government sending a signal. It is a signal that National is playing politics, because we know that national standards will lead to national testing. That is the experience internationally, and that is what will happen here. Mr Peachey favours national testing. He talked about it in his third reading speech. That is where this is going\u2014to national testing. He wrote a book about it. That is what he wants to see happen. I think we will find that in about a year\u2019s time the Minister\u2014who will probably be Allan Peachey, I would say\u2014will come back to the House and say that parents need some certainty and that they need to know that their school is achieving these standards. And he is going to come back and say that we need national testing, because that is the only way that this can work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EWe know from experience overseas that that means we will begin to see teachers teaching to the test. Teaching to the test means a narrow education and a focus not on the so-called tail or the high achievers but on those who can make the marginal difference in the middle to the test results for that school. Even before there is national testing, this Government is on the path to league tables. That is what this Government is after. Mr Peachey loves league tables, and that is what he wants to see here. Mrs Tolley told us that the information will be available only to the Government. What Mrs Tolley does not seem to know but is going to find out about, thanks to this side of the House, is something called the Official Information Act. This Act means that that information will be available and will be published. Then we will see league tables in the papers, followed by\u2014and it happens internationally\u2014flight from schools with bad test results to those with good test results, and the ghettoising of schools. That is the path that this bill is going to take us down. That is what this Government has planned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThis is an unnecessary, politically driven bill. The teaching and assessment of our children is vital. The previous Labour Government focused on teaching and learning, because that is what we need to be doing instead of focusing on this system. If we were ever to look at introducing national standards, then legislation we put forward would have gone to a select committee. This Government has failed to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThe other part of this bill is about truancy. As I have already said in earlier readings of this bill, truancy is a serious issue. It is one that all parties in this House, I am sure, are committed to addressing. But we are not going to address it simply by imposing punitive measures such as those proposed in this bill. We heard from Te Ururoa Flavell that at the moment truancy is disproportionately a M\u0101ori and Pasifika problem. This punitive bill is not going to help that. It will also punish good parents who are not necessarily wilfully involved in this problem. Increasing fines is a pointless way of going about this. The National Government had the opportunity to vote for the Hon Chris Carter\u2019s amendment in order to ensure that good parents are not captured by this law, but it failed to do that. This punitive bill on truancy is not the way to ensure that we keep students in school. We actually need to focus on making school environments places where all students want to be, where all students can learn and learn in their own way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a51364271aed44ce8ef971c014566119\u0022\u003EThis bill is about putting students in a box and saying that one size fits all. It is bad legislation, and it is bad legislation that is being rammed through under urgency. This Government has been in office for a week. It is arrogant, it is already losing touch with the people, and we look forward to holding it to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022 data-id=\u0022294859b72c384597a04da0f404018005\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022294859b72c384597a04da0f404018005\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, and I am delighted to be here today to do so. I acknowledge the contributions of all members in this House\u2014on both sides\u2014to the debate so far. I also acknowledge the many people in this Chamber with experience in education; not just the former teachers and former principals but the parents, who have the basic right to know how their children are doing. This measure is about parents having access to information about their children, and I am proud, as the member of Parliament for Auckland Central, to be part of a Government that is giving parents that information. I am proud to support this legislation and proud to be delivering on another promise of this fantastic National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003EThe other important aspect of the bill that I want to speak to today is the truancy provisions. Thirty thousand kids in New Zealand do not make it through the school gate\u2014that is right; 30,000 kids a day do not make it through the school gate\u2014and under the previous Government the problem got worse. Over a period of 6 years, more and more kids did not make it through the school gate. We believe in these kids. We are going to do everything in our power to make sure they make it through the school gate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281dd2151124040ce9d973f693af8615e\u0022\u003ELet us deal with the aspect that we are passing this legislation through the House under urgency. The reason we are passing this legislation under urgency is that, unlike those members, we think it is a priority to do something about truancy. We campaigned on it, and we are delivering to parents like the parents in the gallery today the right to know how their kids are doing at school. We are delivering to those 30,000 kids, who are the future of New Zealand; it is their right to go through the school gate, and we will get them to go through it. I support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac7f4dece03c4b049993cf633087a39d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac7f4dece03c4b049993cf633087a39d\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, an excellent Government bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022 data-id=\u0022feb025649cc24f42bf0ad997281467c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022feb025649cc24f42bf0ad997281467c1\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before we proceed to the vote there is a voting correction to be made under Standing Order 148(2). The result of the vote on the question that the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill be read a first time was incorrectly announced. The correct result is Ayes 66, Noes 46.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222195dd2146534f22a136935cbb2d2c68\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000413\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 65, Noes 57.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227199bea37fa942d88cc30b800ff0c8a4\u0022\u003ESentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd9d27f146674d9fbc31943e1c2f2610\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u00224df01bb8664a4138aa35b53646675bd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224df01bb8664a4138aa35b53646675bd3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. We are all haunted by the names of children who have died at the hands of those who were supposed to treasure and nurture them. We cannot stand by and simply brush it off as something that happens to somebody else\u2019s kids. They are all our responsibility. This Parliament must send a message that such acts are obscene. In August 2007 I made a commitment that if elected to Government, I would revise the Sentencing Act as it relates to violent crimes against children and ensure that the age of the victim should be more than just an aggravating factor at sentencing. I can advise the House that officials are already working to bring sentences for crimes against children into line with penalties for crimes against adults. This process will result in legislation being put forward when the House returns next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe Sentencing Act already lists aggravating and mitigating factors that can be taken into account when sentencing. Some of these factors will apply to offending that involves violence or neglect of a child. For instance, one aggravating factor covered in section 9 of the Act concerns offending against a victim who is particularly vulnerable by reason of age or health. That could cover offending against a child, but it also covers a range of other victims and scenarios\u2014quite rightly\u2014including the elderly and those who suffer from a form of impairment. That is how it should be, and the bill currently before the House does not change any of the existing provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThis bill provides a new section 9A that deals specifically with offending against children that involves violence or neglect. It actually lists factors that the court must take into account when sentencing for this type of offending, in addition to those factors already set out in section 9. All the new factors are designed to make the sentence more severe than would otherwise be the case, because they all reflect the fact that offending against children should involve a high degree of blameworthiness, and sentencing needs to reflect that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe first of the new factors that the new section obliges the court to take into account is the defencelessness of children. Unlike adults, children cannot physically protect themselves against an adult assailant or permanently escape the offender. It is the cowardly bullying of a captive and weaker victim that justifies a harsher response from the State. The second factor requires the court to consider the serious or long-term harm that can result from offending against children. A childhood marked by violence or neglect can have profound effects on the individual and society, and that individual can even repeat the cycle of offending as a parent, thereby perpetuating the misery that this type of offending breeds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EA crucial aspect of being a child that can be taken for granted is the special relationship of trust that children are entitled to enjoy with adults who are responsible for their care. Children do not choose their parents or caregivers, and for the first years of their lives are utterly reliant on their care. This bill puts that trust to the forefront by requiring the court to take the magnitude of the breach of trust into account when sentencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EFinally, the new provision requires the court to take into account any threats made to the victim that are designed to prevent him or her from reporting to the authorities, or any attempts made to conceal the offending from the authorities. There are instances where social workers may have experienced the sudden disappearance of children from a house when they came to it, or the sight of children clothed from head to toe on hot days so that bruising will not show. The sort of behaviour that results in these situations must be denounced, and this bill will take a step towards ensuring that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThis bill represents the first step in the Government\u2019s response to offending against children that involves violence or neglect. As I stated at the beginning of this speech, we will go further next year by introducing a bill that tackles the issue of setting maximum penalties for offending against children. In the meantime this Government thinks it is important to get this legislation into force before the Christmas break, when so many children are especially vulnerable to abuse, stressful households, and neglect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EI do not pretend nor advocate that these measures are anything more than just a part of the solution. The Government will continue to work with social policy agencies to prevent child abuse and mitigate the harm it causes, and we will continue to look for new responses. There also needs to be a response from the criminal justice system in terms of denouncing such abhorrent behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EI understand that all parties in the House are supportive of this legislation, and I want to thank, in advance\u2014unless I am proven wrong\u2014all members for their support. When a New Zealand child aged between 1 and 6 years is 8.4 times more likely to die from an assault than a child in Sweden, and a child under 7 is almost 4 times more likely to be hospitalised for assault, I am reminded of the words spoken in a different context that strongly emphasise the fierce urgency of now. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u002292ceea7379884d128b2f92d619c2d7be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292ceea7379884d128b2f92d619c2d7be\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E May I say from the outset that I share with the Minister of Justice, Simon Power, as I believe all members of this House do, the utter revulsion that we all feel as we see\u2014too frequently\u2014these cases of child neglect, violence against children, and, ultimately, tragedies where children are murdered. No one could stand by and feel any emotion other than total revulsion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWe on the Opposition side of the House will not oppose the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill, but I have to say it is a sad point that this bill will not stop one child being murdered. I do not say that in any grandiose or political way. This is a prescription that deals with action after the event. I am glad the Minister qualified in his speech\u2014and I accept him at his word\u2014that this bill is only part of the solution, but it is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. It is not proactive, it is reactive. It is action after the event. It is not a bill filled with a vision or a plan. I note that he said, and I am gratified by it, that he would still be willing to work with non-governmental organisations and others who are at the coalface, who go into houses everyday\u2014with tears, I suspect, in their eyes\u2014and identify what is going on. Given that statement by the Minister, I would have thought it would be preferable to meet those words with actions and refer this bill to a select committee so that organisations like the Salvation Army, Big Brothers Big Sisters, Plunket, Barnardos New Zealand, and the whole host of other wonderful organisations could have input and provide their expert knowledge and experience. When we look at who was consulted about this bill, we find it was Government agencies only. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis is an exceptionally serious issue. It strikes at the heart of the most vulnerable in our community. I have to say, and again I do not say it with relish, that the problem with this bill is that the provisions that allegedly are ramped up here already exist in the existing legislation. In fact, in the Minister\u2019s opening he said that the bill does not change any of the specific provisions in existing legislation. In a qualified way, I say that this is smoke and mirrors. I quote the words not of a politician, or of somebody who is partisan in this House, but of a learned expert, Otago University professor Geoff Hall, who, as members will know, specialises in sentencing in criminal law. He said that section 9(1) of the Sentencing Act already dictated that judges must take into account the age or vulnerability of the victim, which covers children in no uncertain terms, as an aggravating feature. He said \u201CIt\u2019s already there. It sounds to me like it\u2019s window dressing,\u201D\u2014referring, sadly, to this legislation\u2014\u201Cwhat is being proposed, unless [the Minister is] suggesting that priority be given to one factor over another.\u201D That is what Professor Hall said. I hope it is not the case, but I wonder whether certain parties in this House are not being a tad cynical with such a huge issue that strikes at the heart of our community by attempting to put forward legislation\u2014a wee bit like the Bail Amendment Bill, although that issue is secondary to the gravity of this issue\u2014to try to play a bit of a hoax on people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis bill, as I said earlier, is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. It does nothing. I would have thought the way to start would be to deal with issues of resourcing in respect of the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services. What worries me is that I saw in the New Zealand Herald\u2014I think it was on 10 December\u2014the Minister for Social Development and Employment, Paula Bennett, quoted as saying she would hold to account the Ministry of Social Development as National moves to cut 500 front-line staff from agencies within it like the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services. Of course, we know that in the 1990s the National Party did exactly that. It slashed and burned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a6f78d4658d4c9282305f204a7ca5f6\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: You cut 450 front-line staff out of the ministry last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca92c3eff3f641ef832fe26a2e9659b5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: This is not an issue for silly interjections. We have had a bit of frivolity and humour in debate on other bills, but this is actually a really serious issue. But I will let Mrs Collins go because she shows herself for what she is. We know that in the 1990s there was a slashing of child, youth and family services. Those services work with non-governmental organisations to identify, as they are happening, issues like violence and neglect in the home before they translate, sadly, into death and murder. There is nothing in this bill to deal with resourcing or any proactive action that can identify those issues of potential child violence and neglect and can cauterize, ring-fence, and deal with them before they develop into a death and another little white coffin being taken by a family to a cemetery. I do not say this as a means of politicking, but I feel it is appropriate to point that out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI said to Mr Power in the debate on the Bail Amendment Bill, and I will say it now in a different way, that if he wanted to have an impact immediately, and to create a deterrent to make people\u2014families and children\u2014in these situations feel safer in and out of their homes, he could have triggered the parole legislation. He could have done that without the participation of this House, because Mrs King passed that legislation. He could simply activate it through the Governor-General. I believe that would have a huge impact. Again, it is after the event, but it would have a huge and sustainable impact around these issues. When Labour was in Government we backed organisations like the Salvation Army and Barnardos New Zealand. We worked with and partnered those expert organisations. We set up, for instance, the Taskforce for Action on Violence within Families. We set up and actioned the It\u2019s Not OK programme. I have to say, sadly, that programme was criticised during the election campaign by a number of members opposite as being PC and nanny State. When a programme has a smidgeon of potential to save a child\u2019s life, to prevent family violence, or to correct behaviours within the home that could lead to tragedy, I think it is worth giving it a go. It may work; it may not. During the election campaign some described the programme as nanny State and PC. Then there are organisations like the Methodist Central Mission, the South Auckland Family Violence Prevention Network, and parenting and family counselling organisations working all around New Zealand. These are agencies that deserve a backing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis bill does not acknowledge the 16,000-odd cases of reported child neglect and violence that happen in the home every year. This legislation does nothing to be proactive\u2014to move into that space with non-governmental organisations and Government agencies to try to cauterize those problems before they develop into potential tragedies. Maybe this Government can reassure us on this side of the House. Perhaps Ms Bennett could take a call to advise us whether, in the drive to cap and slash so-called bureaucrats, 500 staff from the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services and the Ministry of Social Development will be taken out of play\u2014because they are needed. Who are these 500 people in the ministry who will be cauterized, sacked, or withdrawn? As I say, Ms Bennett is holding her own ministry to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI come back to where I started. Sadly, this bill will change nothing and will not save one child\u2019s life. The provisions in the bill mirror the provisions of existing legislation, and Professor Hall, an eminent expert, believes\u2014to quote his words, not mine\u2014that it is window dressing. It is also predicated on a premise that judges are not smart and do not take these aggravating factors into account. If that is the case, I ask the Minister of Justice whether he can provide us with some evidence of court cases where, in his or the ministry\u2019s view, these issues were not dealt with appropriately by a learned judge. I wonder whether he could provide us with that evidence and with the research that his ministry has done in the short period it has come up with these measures. As I have said, consultation has been exceptionally limited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f738cbe5014a413baf99d740bf69cc2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f738cbe5014a413baf99d740bf69cc2e\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E National is wholly committed to effective law and order policies, and has clearly signalled that there will be major changes to the law and legislation that exists today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EThe situation during the Labour Government\u2019s period in office saw a number of things that are saddening: a significant rise in crimes of violence, the growing power of gangs and their involvement in criminal trafficking, and the need to protect vulnerable members of the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EI accept, of course, that the enactment of this legislation does not of itself resolve lawbreaking, but it does send a very clear message to the community as to activity that we abhor and are determined to confront, it does send a clear signal to intending offenders, and, of course, it sends a very clear signal to the judges to seek, in the exercise of their discretion in imposing sentences, a particular weighting on the issue that is the subject of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EThe Sentencing Act 2002 is structured in a way that might very well contemplate this law change. Section 8 deals with the principles of sentencing. Section 9 contains a number of aggravating factors, then concludes by saying that nothing in these provisions \u201Cprevents the court from taking into account any other aggravating or mitigating factor that the court thinks fit;\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afbf1de200c249dfa785e2b4b77cfd46\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Including age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4d715aa92b6413f8077856c19dab55c\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: As Mr Parker has just commented, there is not sufficiently direct reference to the position of children in section 9(1)(g), which provides as an aggravating and mitigating factor \u201Cthat the victim was particularly vulnerable because of his or her age or health or because of any other factor known to the offender:\u201D. The section is aligned with the definition in the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act 1989 of a child as a boy or girl under the age of 14 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EThere is a sad commentary in the explanatory note, which accompanies the bill. Under the heading \u201CStatus quo and problem\u201D it reads: \u201COffending against children has extremely serious consequences, including the long-term consequences for both its victims and society as a whole. In 2006, Child, Youth and Family received over 63,000 referrals as a result of child abuse, violence, and trauma. Reported family violence, a substantial proportion of which involves violence against children, is growing faster than the reported violence category as a whole.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246c2816520f846ad8182129340d96d1a\u0022\u003EMr Cosgrove said in his comments in the House that this bill is simply a smoke and mirrors change to the law, but that is not so, and I am sure that, intuitively, members of the House know that it is not so. Why would Labour vote for this change, if it were only a smoke and mirrors change? The reality is that it sends a sharp and determined signal to those entities that I have already identified. This is a law change that, on any measure, is appropriate, timely, and necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e43245e8199f445b926ecfc27cdabb13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e43245e8199f445b926ecfc27cdabb13\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E First, I will comment on a couple of remarks made by Dr Worth from the other side of the House by saying that there is not a member in this House who is not absolutely appalled at the tragedy, which we witness year after year in this country, of child death by abuse and neglect. It is not a party political thing. Over the last two decades about nine wee children a year, on average, have died at the hands of their caregivers or their parents. The level of substantiated abuse in our community, according to Child, Youth and Family, is around 16,000 children. That is something that all of us as New Zealanders are deeply ashamed of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EEvery person, I imagine, in this Chamber is here because of the benefit they have had of growing up in a secure, stable, and loving family. That ought to be a child\u2019s birthright, yet it is not for a significant minority of our children. If the answer to child abuse and neglect was a simple one, then it would have been implemented by Governments decades ago; we know that it is not simple. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWe will support this Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill because, as my colleague David Parker has suggested, it does no harm. But, I have to say to the Minister, nor does it make any real difference. That is not a political statement, I say to Mr Power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThere is a text that Mr Power and Dr Worth, as lawyers, will know about. It is Hall\u2019s Sentencing, which is the foremost text on sentencing in New Zealand, written by the foremost expert on sentencing. That expert is Professor Geoffrey Hall from the University of Otago. I will read out what Professor Hall says about this legislation. He stated that section 9(1)(g) of the Sentencing Act 2002 already dictates that judges must take into account the age or vulnerability of the victim, which covers children in no uncertain terms, as an aggravating feature. He stated: \u201CIt\u2019s already there. It sounds to me like it\u2019s window dressing, what\u2019s being proposed,\u201D. That statement was not made by a politician or by a person with an axe to grind; it was made by a person who is the expert on sentencing in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThis law does not, in essence, change the existing requirements that I put into the Sentencing Act 2002. I happen to have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db96f760ef6403b95c393e2a813a064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225324f0b6fc824848ab6fea2818f0ee08\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: It strengthens them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e0d7a7824c34ecd9f820d17402aff35\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, it does not. I am afraid it does not even strengthen them. I have a great deal of respect for the Minister of Justice, Simon Power. I believe that his intentions with the bill are honourable. I believe that he is concerned about the well-being of children, and I would not accuse any member in this Chamber of being motivated by anything other than what is good for protecting those of our children who are most desperately in need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThere is nobody in this Chamber for whom the name Nia Glassie or a reference to the K\u0101hui twins does not bring a sense of outrage that these vulnerable children could have been treated in that way. It is not a new list; tragically, it is not a new list. We can think of James Whakaruru, we can think of \u201CLillybing\u201D, we can think of Delcelia Witik\u0101\u2014all cases that New Zealanders are familiar with and have been appalled by. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EBut notwithstanding that this measure is the same as what is in the existing legislation, it demonstrates that legislation is what happens after the event to punish the perpetrator of the abuse. I happen to be one who believes that somebody who abuses, neglects, and, most particularly, kills children deserves the strongest sanction that we can place on them. But even if we did have capital punishment, I would not pretend for a moment in this House that any one of those wee kiddies whose names I have mentioned would have been saved by that sort of legislation. My challenge to any speaker in this debate is to say whether they believe otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWe know what we have to do to stop this sort of thing. We know what the common factor in the deaths of each of those children was: they were from dysfunctional families\u2014families where children were born to teenaged mums, and where drugs and alcohol addled the minds of the people who were there. If we consider the faces of the people who killed Nia Glassie, we can reach our own conclusions about the nature of that household, that family, and how things operated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003ETherefore, it stands to reason, I say to the Minister, that if we are to make a real difference, and if we are to protect our children\u2014the most vulnerable citizens of this country\u2014then we have to address the cause of those children\u2019s deaths. That is where this House can make a difference, and that is where the challenge is: for all of us to work in a multiparty way to try to find those solutions. But please, I say to the Minister, do not come into the House with legislation with the message that \u201Csending a message\u201D\u2014as both Mr Power and Dr Worth have said\u2014will change that reality. We do not \u201Csend a message\u201D; we have to act to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EAlthough I am the architect of some of the toughest justice legislation on our law books with regard to offenders, I say that legislation, by itself, is not enough. It is about prevention, it is about early intervention, and it is about putting our money where our mouth is when it comes to preserving children\u2019s lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EThis is a problem that successive Governments have addressed, and I am very proud to have been part of the Government that brought in programmes like Family Start and Early Start, which said that we can identify those families that are dysfunctional\u2014[Interruption] Members can interject, but I am making serious points. I am not being partisan about that, and I believe those members should get off their high horse, listen, and contribute in the same constructive way. We have to deal with those problems by early intervention, by identifying those children who are being born into and are growing up in a family where they lose their birthright of living in a safe, caring, and loving environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EWe will be judging the Government on whether we are resourcing those things, and we will be working constructively and positively with the Government to make sure we are resourcing them. My challenge is not simply to Mr Power or Mrs Collins; it is actually to Paula Bennett, who is the Minister for Social Development and Employment. It is the dollars that we put into intervening with those dysfunctional families that will make a difference in the lives of those children and that will stop the tragedy of 16,000 children in our country being subjected to abuse each year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI know that this bill is about the Government\u2019s 100 days of action, and about creating the impression of action. We saw that with the bail law, we are seeing it with this sentencing bill, and we saw it with the education bill that has just gone through. These are about perceptions, but perceptions are fine if one is dealing only with politics. My plea to the Government is that it should deal with the reality of what is causing those problems. I ask Government members not to play politics with it or to come in here with things that are simply window dressing. Labour is putting an offer to the Government to work together to deal with the tragedy of child abuse, neglect, and killings in this country. That is a genuine offer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022060122dbbfe6423b9af0c95a3204d44c\u0022\u003EI know that the Minister is bringing this bill into the House with the best intentions in the world, but the Minister knows, Professor Hall knows, and every member of the House knows that it will not make a difference. It will not make a difference because it is already in the law, and it will not make a difference because we need the fence at the top of the cliff, not just the punishment afterwards when the damage has already been done and the appalling consequences are already in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u002258fc29683eba4dd9a4f646980fad3b83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258fc29683eba4dd9a4f646980fad3b83\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will be supporting this bill, and I am very proud to represent a party, the Green Party, that has led the debate, and indeed legal change, for the protection of children from violence. It has done the hard yards on these kinds of issues and has consistently promoted the elimination of violence against children, women, and families. I pay tribute to my colleague Sue Bradford, who would otherwise be here to address the issues in this bill, and who herself was the architect of the repeal of section 59 of the Crimes Act and led the agreement of, largely, the whole of this House to support that legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe Green Party supports this bill because we support the recognition of the potentially vulnerable status of children around issues of violence, particularly those children under 14. We all know, and we have talked about this so far, that violence against children in New Zealand is rife. Children are still considered largely to be the property or the chattels of adults and parents. That is an attitude that still pervades this country. We saw that attitude alive and well in the debate around the repeal of section 59. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe agree with Labour members that section 9 of the Sentencing Act deals with this issue in a general sense, so to some extent this legislation enhances, if you like, existing provisions. The extent to which it will make a specific difference is still a bit uncertain, and because there will not be the opportunity for a select committee debate on this, we will not get any information from those at the coalface of dealing with this kind of legislation, whether it is the Law Commission, lawyers, those involved with family violence in the courts, or judges who might want to have a say on this. They will not be able to give us the information we need to know the extent to which this bill would make a difference to sentencing outcomes in those cases of extreme violence and neglect against children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003ESo it is very difficult at this stage, I think, to really understand the extent to which this bill will make a difference. We will support it in principle; we do not think that it will do any harm. But that is not a good way to make legislation\u2014legislation should be much more considered than that. It should have a demonstrable impact; otherwise it is just a waste of taxpayers\u2019 time and money. So we thought that a select committee process for something as important as this, something as significant to New Zealand\u2019s families as this, an issue of violence and neglect like this, should have been taken out to the public so that they too could have had a say about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI want to refer to a Supplementary Order Paper in my name that will be tabled shortly, and available to members. I have spoken to some members about it. It is to remove paragraph (a) from new section 9A(2), inserted by clause 4. This would remove the defencelessness of the victim as a factor. On the face of it, it looks perfectly fine to include that in the legislation but, after further consideration, I am assuming that it is really about the vulnerability of the victim, the child under 14 years. To that extent there is a lot of case law and law on the vulnerability of victims. But my concern, and the concern of my party, is that on sentencing it may lead to arguments in court that such children may not have been without opportunity to defend themselves or that they had a capacity to defend themselves, whether or not they took it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe have had, for example, issues around provocation. In fact, during the debate on section 59, before the section was amended, many of the decisions in the court cases that allowed parents to beat their children with weapons were based on the fact that the child under the age of 14 had provoked that attack or response. It was a reasonable defence that beating a child with a weapon, whether a piece of wood, a piece of wire, or a hosepipe, was justifiable in the circumstances because the child had behaved so badly that such a beating was reasonable. Of course, we have amended that legislation now, so that defence is not possible any more, which is a very good thing. But we do not want to see, with this provision, that somehow those arguments are being made again in the courts\u2014that children might perhaps have provoked such a response, or, what is more likely, were able to defend themselves in some way but did not take that opportunity and, therefore, that is a mitigating factor to be taken into account in sentencing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EIt may include issues such as the build of a child\u2014some 14-year-olds are quite big; they are big kids, sometimes\u2014for a child\u2019s relative age when between the age of 0 and 14, but there is also, perhaps, a child\u2019s ability to tell someone. There might be some argument that a child is verbal; a verbal child, beyond the age of 2 and a bit, could have told somebody if that child had had an opportunity. Perhaps someone might have asked a child about the abuse or neglect, but the child did not tell that person. Does that become an issue about the defencelessness of the child? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThese concerns are probably on the margins of the kinds of cases we are talking about; none the less we do not want to see this law allow for any kind of apportionment of blame to the child. In our view, there should be no debate as to whether the child could have avoided that abuse or neglect by his or her own behaviour. This is the kind of argument that often happens in rape cases and sexual assault cases, so it is not unknown for these debates to happen in the courts. In our view, a child under 14 years old is by definition without defence\u2014by definition. In our view, there is nothing that children under the age of 14 could do ever to justify neglect and abuse\u2014not a single thing could they ever do to justify abuse, or to provide some kind of mitigating factor. So having criteria such as \u201Cthe defencelessness of the victim\u201D in the legislation may be interpreted as some kind of way of apportioning blame to the child in the courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe role of Parliament is to make the best possible legislation we can for the protection of the vulnerable as we can, but given the short circumstances we have in which to debate and analyse this legislation, this might be a reasonable mistake to have been made. It may well not have been intended to have that consequence, but, with the risk that it might, we say that wording should not be in this bill. I look forward to the further debate on that issue. There may be some assurance we can get that that is not what it will actually do. I am not prepared to accept an assurance that it is not intended for that to happen; that is not enough. It will not be enough for the child who has to suffer the consequences of counsel, at a sentencing, arguing as to whether that child itself could have done something about it, or stopped the abuse or neglect. That is not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EIt would have been good as part of the process, and perhaps this issue would have been raised in those circumstances, to have heard from the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner, because I understand there was a great deal of consultation around this bill. It has been looked at by the Department of Corrections, the Ministry of Social Development, the New Zealand Police, the Crown Law Office, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs, the Office of Ethnic Affairs, and the Ministry of Women\u2019s Affairs. They have all been consulted in the drafting of this legislation, but the one parliamentary body whose responsibility it is to care for, and protect, the interests of children in legislation and policy making was not consulted on this legislation. The most important office\u2014the one that has had the greatest impact on providing policy advice, information, and support for campaigns to protect children against violence\u2014was excluded from the consideration of this bill. That was a very serious oversight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7600b327a1c412f8eeb6d8ab8b87d58\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Was she in the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2f21503f01f41f289c04d9ccd1bf0ef\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: Judith Collins is making smarmy remarks about the office, but this legislation is about the protection of our most vulnerable children, and particularly those in abusive households and environments. Judith Collins can be as smarmy as she likes, but we are talking about protecting our babies from violence. I say: \u201CBe smarmy all you want, Miss, but this is about protecting our children.\u201D If she wants to play politics with this issue, that is her business and the public will judge her for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe should have had the proper agencies looking at this legislation to make sure that it would actually be effective. There will be no opportunity for the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner to look at this legislation now. It will be passed on a Saturday afternoon, under urgency. So that opportunity to really assess the impacts of this legislation on the lives of children by experts in that area has been lost. That is a very poor process for legislation of such significant input as this, dealing with the issue of protecting our children, our babies, from violence. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5610d839c3f42099785b2d4de852be4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5610d839c3f42099785b2d4de852be4\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to add my support to the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill, and also to try, naive though it may be, to bring everyone back to a focus on what we are doing and why, and away from politicking. To that extent, I agree with every speaker so far. This is probably the first time since I have come into this House that I have agreed so wholeheartedly with the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, but I do agree with him when he said that this is not a bill for making frivolous interjection on. I could not agree with him more about that. I would also say it is not a bill for party politicking on, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EI have looked through the explanatory note of the bill carefully, and the first thing that strikes me is the \u201CObjectives\u201D section. Who can possibly disagree, or even quibble, with the wording of the objectives of this bill? I was gratified to hear the Opposition\u2019s position on the bill\u2014at first the wording was \u201Cwill not oppose\u201D, but then that changed with the Hon Phil Goff\u2019s speech to \u201Cwill support\u201D. And now the Greens are making the same commitment as Labour. It is clearly a multiparty commitment to support a bill that the people in the gallery or those following proceedings on the radio or the television, I am sure, would call a no-brainer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThe only possible source of disagreement could be on how to achieve the objectives set out in the explanatory note, and we have heard a bit of quite sensible and moving, frankly, comment on that from the Hon Phil Goff. I will just touch, for a second, on his speech, and also on a speech he made yesterday on the Bail Amendment Bill, where he alluded to the fact that maybe we need to go into some very, very difficult questions. I think he may have been alluding to the ability, or the right, of people like the K\u0101hui parents and the Glassie parents to be parents at all. I think that is what he may have been referring to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EIn my speech I was going to remind the House of a few of the most horrible cases, because I think they are worth remembering, but the Hon Phil Goff has already done that. One of the things that moved me the most, that got to me the most, in the Nia Glassie case\u2014although I have found the stuff that everyone else has found revolting quite hard to read and quite hard to listen to, this ties in with something that is in this bill\u2014was the testimony from the neighbour who said that she realised that the little girl was hungry and she thought she had been abused, so she went to give her food. She said the little girl shook with fear, covered her eyes with one hand, took the food with the other, and then ran away like a frightened dog. I hope the House will understand that that moved me as much as, or more, than the abuse involving the clothes line and the dryer and all the other terrible things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThis bill simply inserts \u201Cadditional aggravating factors\u201D. To touch on Metiria Turei\u2019s comment, I think her amendment might have some validity, or some purpose, if it were not for the word \u201Caggravating\u201D in new section 9A(2) in clause 4. If it were just \u201Cthe following factors\u201D to be taken into account, then, yes, there could be some clever legal argument of the kind that Ms Turei has referred to. But in my view, and I am not an expert in the criminal law at all, the fact that they are listed as \u201Caggravating factors\u201D removes any possibility of such a convoluted argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EIn my opinion this measure should go through the House with whatever is the equivalent of \u201Cby acclamation\u201D. There is no issue here of the separation of powers. The judiciary is not being ordered to do anything; judges are being told they must take these factors into account\u2014that is all. The legislation leaves judicial discretion untouched. It does not fetter the judiciary in any way; it simply provides judges with some extra factors to be taken into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThe House could filibuster through some of the debate on this bill, as we saw with regard to bills yesterday, and I will not go any further into that. Those kinds of speeches on the meaning of commencement dates, etc., I think would be an insult to the memory of James Whakaruru , whom the Hon Phil Goff mentioned, and to all the names I have written down here. And those are just the ones who were killed. There are 15,000 or so abused children who were not killed, minus the 10 who were. It would be an insult to them if we play politics with this bill, make frivolous interjections, and talk about nonsense meanings of the commencement date, etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThis bill should pass as quickly as possible. It may not do much, but members on the other side of the Chamber have conceded it does no harm. In my view it does do something, and I am coming back now to the Nia Glassie example that I used. New section 9A(2)(b) states: \u201Cin relation to any harm resulting from the offence, any serious or long-term physical or psychological effect \u2026\u201D. I would like to think that in some case in the future\u2014one like the Nia Glassie case\u2014that did not, please God, result in death, if evidence was called of a little girl shaking like a frightened dog and covering her face, then that subsection could be taken into account in order to lock up a piece of vermin for as long as possible. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022 data-id=\u0022478f04cf8b994656b2aea6fe49998e61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022478f04cf8b994656b2aea6fe49998e61\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E When I was a child, I knew the meaning of the words \u201Che aroha wh\u0101ereere, he p\u014Dtiki pirihi poho\u201D\u2014\u201Ca mother\u2019s love, a child clinging to her breast\u201D. When we refer to a mother\u2019s love for her child, we mean our nannies, our koros, our aunties, our uncles. We mean wh\u0101nau. Growing up in Whakat\u016B, we knew that our wh\u0101nau treasured us, their children, more than anything else in the world. We were their hearts growing outside of their bodies. They would all gladly suffer themselves, rather than see any child in any form of misfortune. This is the model that I have drawn on to raise our children, and our children are now replicating this same learning with our mokopuna. And that is how it goes, generation after generation reminding us that children have a right to our protection, they deserve to be heard, and they are entitled to be loved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EWe know through the writings of early missionaries and their observations of M\u0101ori that this is how it has always been. The diary notes of the Rev. Samuel Marsden back in 1814 encapsulate these views: \u201CI saw no quarrelling while I was there. They are kind to their women and children. I never observed either a mark of violence upon them, nor did I ever see a child struck.\u201D I often return to my childhood memories for strength when day after day we are fed tales of horrific abuse, and through the eager eye of the camera we witness blow-by-blow accounts of sickening violence against children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI have no desire to replicate the horror stories of violence and neglect against children. We must move away from the obsessive-compulsive fascination with retelling tales of torture\u2014the endless roll-call of names, and the courtroom evidence that is trumpeted, broadcast, repeated, and replicated through viral networks. Every time a member brings the name of a child into this House that member brings with it the overwhelming shame of the extended family of all who identify with that same name. As a new member, I know that every time I rise I bring with me not only the name of my husband and children but the breadth and depth of the Hippolite and Gray wh\u0101nau throughout Aotearoa and, indeed, the world. It is an awesome responsibility to live up to our family name in all my actions and utterances. So I ask whether it is right or fair that members recklessly punctuate speeches with the names of innocent children\u2014names that will be for ever associated with criminal violence. We must be able to talk about the vile behaviours and actions that have led to child assault without forever vilifying the family names of the victims. We must start raising our sights above the sordid and the sensational, and agree to some common ideals; ideals like children having a right to feel safe, to feel good about themselves, to be appreciated, and to be encouraged. Ka tipu huna ana te t\u016Bkinotanga. Violence grows in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThis bill, then, sets a benchmark for our future, a future where there is no excuse for child abuse and no place for violence. What this law does is to create a new and specific section in the Sentencing Act that replaces the court\u2019s existing discretion with additional instructions when judges are sentencing offenders convicted of violence against, or neglect of, a child under 14 years. We have to ask: why settle for 14 years of age?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EWe were also somewhat surprised that the Children\u2019s Commissioner had not been approached about this bill, so we contacted Dr Cindy Kiro. We were advised that she was supportive of the idea about clarifying the law and providing specificity, direction, and prescription for judges when considering cases of child abuse. But she also introduced a question around the age-limit in this bill that we in the M\u0101ori Party believe is a very interesting idea. Dr Kiro poses the question to the House of what the appropriate legal age for children and young people should be. Within current law, section 10B of the Summary Offences Act 1981 makes it an offence for a parent to leave a child under the age of 14 without reasonable care and supervision. Fourteen is also the minimum age for a babysitter. At 15 one can earn a restricted driver\u2019s licence. Young people can be sent to the youth wing of a jail at 16. At 16 one can leave school or leave home without parental consent, have sex, get a tattoo, start full-time work, and get married, but one still requires parental consent for medical or dental treatment. At 17 one can join the navy, the army, or the air force. At 18 one can buy firecrackers, get a firearms licence, join the police force, borrow money, open a cheque account, buy cigarettes, drink alcohol, and vote. Those are just a few of the diverse definitions of age-limits that complicate our current legislative framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThe question that confronts us in respect of this bill is what threshold we are prepared to accept. When can we say that the age of the child makes him or her particularly vulnerable? The crux of the issue, of course, is that we are actually entitled to protection from violence at any age. This change addresses society\u2019s abhorrence of a fundamental breach of trust. This issue extends outside the scope of this bill, but it is an issue that we may need to consider further in other debates. It appears that the younger the age, the greater the outrage. But I want us to consider that although the defencelessness of the child is, of course, a major issue, the serious long-term physical or psychological effect on the child as a result of the offence is severe no matter what the age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThere was never any question that we would do anything but vote in support of this bill. We believe that it is vital that we do everything we can to demonstrate society\u2019s condemnation of all forms of violence, and this bill is another step to doing that. But it will not cause violence against children to stop overnight. That is a crisis we must all attend to. It is a crisis we must attend to in our own behaviours, our own families, and our own workplaces, and I include this workplace in that view. We must all be responsible for marking a line in the sand and ensuring we promote peaceful, non-violent communication. We must be consistent in our deeds and our words. All of us have the responsibility to demonstrate leadership in this regard. It is inappropriate for anyone in this House to point the finger at others and name and shame the perpetrators of violence if we do not also display our own commitment to model behaviour that is inspirational. All of us\u2014and of course I include the M\u0101ori Party in my vision\u2014must work hard at exhibiting conduct that displays respect for one another and that is truly mana-enhancing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EOffences against children are intolerable. They are not part of anyone\u2019s vision for the future of Aotearoa. We know, too, that many complex issues underpin the breakdown of families: the devastating effects of poverty; the mind-altering dysfunction created by alcohol and drugs; the pervasive impact of mental health issues, including post-natal depression; and the narrow range of options that some families and individuals become trapped in. And we must acknowledge the enormous harm created by generations of violence, sexual abuse, physical damage, and emotional offences, which, if not attended to, will continue to restrict the opportunities for generations to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is proud to support this bill as the first indicator that the forty-ninth Parliament is prepared to stand up and make clear our concerted efforts to eliminate violence from our world. We are proud to support this bill, just as we were proud to support the repeal of section 59 of the Crimes Act, which was initiated by our colleagues in the Greens. And there is nothing, in my mind, more worthy of urgency than the goal of eliminating violence from our society. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u0022afa16d876e54444bbc0a338d2a7e022e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afa16d876e54444bbc0a338d2a7e022e\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E The honourable member who has just resumed her seat, Rahui Katene, has made a very good point, I believe, in relation to the constant naming of children in this area. Certainly, I quite often think about how hard it must be for the extended family of children who have been harmed, and for those people who are quite innocent of any wrongdoing themselves, to constantly have their family names used in the media and in this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003EI will take just a couple of minutes to deal with some of the issues raised by the Labour-Green Opposition. There has been some talk today about the need for a select committee to look at this bill. I disagree. This bill is actually not about what causes an adult to hurt or kill a child; it is about the sentencing of people in relation to this area. It is not about what we can do to stop people doing this; it is about what we will do with them when they do. So, really, we do not need a select committee process in order to send a signal to the judiciary and to the public that we have heard the message of the public. We campaigned on this particular area during the last election, and the public has said that they want some action in terms of sentencing. That is the reason we are bringing this bill in, under urgency, before Christmas\u2014to legislate for that as fast as possible. That is what the public of New Zealand has asked us to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003EWhen we look at some of the areas around how or why people offend in this way, we can look at some of the things that have been shown to make a positive difference. Family Start and the Home Interaction Programme for Parents and Youngsters were all started under a National Government in the 1990s. In addition, Social Workers in Schools is another initiative of the National Government of the 1990s, which the former Government\u2014which is now in Opposition\u2014took up as well and supported. But so often when children are killed, there are so many people who know about what is going on, including people in the health sector, the education sector, neighbours\u2014as we have heard\u2014family members, and others. So often, I think, we tend to dwell on what they could have done differently. That is a good thing for us to consider. But this bill is not about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003EThis bill is about those who commit the crime. It is about time, I think, that we also stopped and said: \u201CActually, no matter what else the rest of us can do to alert the authorities or to take action, at the end of the day these children are killed because an adult or some adults decided to do that.\u201D It is about time they have to face up to the consequences of their actions. This bill will not, as has been said, stop children from being killed. It does, however, go some way to valuing our children a little more than we have in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u0022db154f4214a0406982c105040ffc8252\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db154f4214a0406982c105040ffc8252\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I first of all commend the House for the quality of the debate on the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill. I think there is nothing like a bill where children or vulnerable people are being discussed to bring the House together. It is true that, across all parties, we care for our families, we care for our children, and we care for our community. At times we like to have the political debates and the rumble of Parliament, but when it gets down to tintacks we really do believe, I think, in the common good of our fellow human beings. I commend the House for this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister of Justice that Labour members will support this bill. We will vote for it. In fact, the whole of Parliament will vote for it. But, as has been said, that is not because it will prevent a single child from being abused, maltreated, assaulted, or killed. We know that this bill is about what happens after the event. It is about what we do about the event. As Judith Collins said, it is not tackling the causes; it tackles what we do to the people who have committed the crime. So of course we will support the bill. The National Party manifesto states that National wants to send a message that violence against children is abhorrent and is not to be tolerated. There would not be a member in this House who does not support that message. During the debate on the Bail Amendment Bill yesterday all sorts of claims were made about what it will do; we all know that this bill will not stop the abuser from abusing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EWe all know, as well, that the reasons why people abuse and perpetrate violence against others are very, very complicated indeed. It is a complex issue. As Phil Goff said, if there was an easy answer, every party in this Parliament that had been in Government would have put that solution in place. It is a complex issue. Abusers will not stop their behaviour just because today, a Saturday, at 3.15 in the afternoon and under urgency, we amend an Act of Parliament and put in place some window-dressing changes. It will not change the action of the abusers. They do not believe they will get caught, anyway. The behaviour of many of them is long term. For many years they abuse young people, often throughout their young lives, and they use their position of power to suppress and frighten their victims into silence. Their whole aim is to ensure that nobody knows what they are doing. They are certainly not thinking about what the aggravating factors will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EAs we have heard today, this bill does not make a great deal of difference in terms of the existing legislation. David Garrett said it may not do much but it does not do any harm. I agree with him. But I wonder why the Minister of Justice did not broaden his consultation, even though he was not going to refer the bill to a select committee and allow the public to have a say. Why did the Minister, in his consultation on, and putting together of, this legislation, not go outside Government departments and seek advice from somebody like Professor Geoff Hall? Why not approach people like him? Why not go to some of our extremely good non-governmental organisations in New Zealand that deal with children every day? Why not go to the Children\u2019s Commissioner? Why not go to people who have great knowledge of what is happening to our children or who work on the front line in terms of providing support and programmes? I am very disappointed that the Minister saw fit to ask only Government departments\u2014the same Government departments that many of the members of his party have called useless Wellington bureaucrats. Why not go further, in terms of his consultation, to find out what others thought?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI think it is a shame that the Minister, if I heard him correctly, intends to bring another bill into Parliament next year to deal with sentencing for crimes against children. The Minister is nodding. We have to ask why we are here today, under urgency, passing this legislation that people know will make very little difference\u2014and that no one is not going to support\u2014when a larger piece of work by the Minister will be introduced next year and, hopefully, sent to a select committee. The Minister is affirming that. Why could they not be done together? I can think of only one answer, and unfortunately I do not really like it. It is because this bill is a political manoeuvre, part of the Government\u2019s promise of 100 days of action. That can be the only answer. The Minister knows that this bill will not stop an abuser today, tomorrow, or next week from abusing a child. So why not do the proper thing? Why not bring in the bills together? Let us, across this House, work on child abuse in New Zealand. Would it not have been a great start to the forty-ninth Parliament for us to genuinely take a cross-party approach to child abuse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EThe Ombudsman in his report of December last year said that one of the problems we have in terms of crime and criminal justice is that it has become highly politicised and the subject of a lot of uninformed comment. He said, further, that we have two opposing philosophies driving policy matters in New Zealand at the moment: one called \u201Cpenal populism\u201D and one called \u201Csoft liberalism\u201D. What we really want, and what he called for, is a rational debate on criminal justice. But he very much doubts that that is possible. Well, I believe that it is possible, with goodwill, but it does mean that, on a bill like this and on other bills that the Minister will bring in next year, he should open the door to other parties being able to debate the issue; he should genuinely extend an hand across the House and say: \u201CWe want to find the best solution to these incredibly complex issues.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EYou see, it is not only New Zealand that faces the problem of child abuse. Professor David Fergusson, who is the director of the Christchurch Health and Development Study, has followed around 1,200 children who were born in Christchurch in 1977 for all the years since. He has also been part of a special report based on 8 years of studies in New Zealand, Australia, Britain, the United States, and Canada. Those studies show a similar pattern in all the countries we like to relate ourselves to\u2014that 4 to 16 percent of children are physically abused, that one in 10 suffers neglect or psychological abuse, and that it happens every year, year in, year out. So it is not just a New Zealand issue; it is an international issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EBut I believe we are better placed than most countries to deal with this issue. The reason is that we are small. We are a small country, we have many nationwide services, and we are relatively well connected. I think we have many good policies and programmes in place. I do not care whether the National Party started some of them in 1953 or whether the Labour Party started them in 2000; we have some good programmes in place, we can build on those programmes, and we can take the best of them and make them work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EBut that does mean having a commitment. It means having a commitment to dealing first with the most vulnerable in our society. We know that over the last 8 or 9 years the number of children who live in poverty in this country has been halved. We are left with about 150,000 vulnerable children living in families. They are the hard core, the children who are likely to appear in crime statistics in the future. That is where we need to start now. That is where we need to continue the work that is being done, and we need to commit to that work. I was pleased to see Paula Bennett identify those children. I will be interested in her putting out her programme and her plan to tackle them, because there is so much good work being done. I hope she does not treat that work in a political way\u2014does not disregard a programme because it was Labour\u2019s work or work that was done in the past\u2014but picks it up and runs with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EMy only question of Paula Bennett would be to ask her to assure me that despite her commitment to reduce the staff of the Ministry of Social Development\u2014500 staff over the next 4 years, 80 percent of whom are frontline workers\u2014not one of the people who deal with vulnerable children will lose his or her job. It will not be easy getting rid of 500 staff without those people being affected. I would like that commitment, because we can deal with this issue if we deal with it across this House and work with our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022 data-id=\u0022c030fe9201e64d6bb6f26772424ce4d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c030fe9201e64d6bb6f26772424ce4d3\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to address two or three issues that have been raised by speakers on the other side of the House. Firstly, I reconfirm what this legislation does. It is a way of communicating with the court\u2014with the judges and the lawyers. It is not intended to send a message to offenders, because offenders will never read it. Mr Goff\u2019s good friend, Professor Hall, who wrote a book on sentencing, agrees that this is how Parliament communicates to the courts. Putting this legislation through under urgency does a particular thing that is very significant. This measure has been scoffed at by the other side, but it is important to note that although this is just one small step that is taken in urgency, it has achieved some profile because it has become part of what is known as the 100-day plan. It draws the attention of those people to whom it is directed. [Interruption] Would Mr Goff agree with me that the offender who is arrested tomorrow morning for an offence he commits against a small child tonight, and who pleads guilty and is sentenced before the court next month, will receive a greater sentence because of the notoriety of this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc7bccdde14f4639872a1b9ceb456d31\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: It wouldn\u2019t stop him doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de69be000bea4cc3b98e5f344ed1b982\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: We agree, but it is not directed at stopping anybody from doing anything. It is particularly directed towards the sentence that is imposed on an offender who appears before the court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EMaybe if the Leader of the Opposition had appeared in court in the past, he would have heard judges talk about recent statements from Parliament and the abhorrence shown by members of Parliament, which is a direction to judges, who pass sentences on those convicted of crimes, to sentence accordingly. The statements made in Parliament are then enforced on those offenders, and in this case the abhorrence of Parliament towards child abuse, child neglect, etc., will be reflected in a sentence that will probably be more severe than it would have been. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EIt is true, too, to say that a number of measures are directed towards a particular evil in this society. Yes, we need to direct a number of portfolio areas and the legislation associated with those portfolios towards child abuse. Some of it will be about education and health. This particular bill is about law and order and the justice system. It does not seek to be a silver bullet. It does not seek to solve all problems. It seeks to underline society\u2019s abhorrence of these crimes and the fact that they are a regular occurrence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EAbout one child is murdered each month in this country by the people who care for that child. For some particular reason, we seem to murder people at about twice the rate that they do in the UK. We need to address the fact that we do live in a comparatively very violent society for a Western World country. I am pleased to be part of a Government that is prepared to do this. It is a small step at this stage, growing incrementally with legislation that will come in during the next 12 months to address more serious issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EI finish by mentioning the comments made that this small piece of legislation has not gone before a select committee, and has not had the opportunity to be discussed by those, for example, in the non-governmental organisations. If we did that they would say: \u201CJust get on with it.\u201D, because we would not find a single non-governmental organisation that would not agree with society\u2019s underlying abhorrence for these crimes, and would not agree that saying, through legislation, that the age of a child, a child\u2019s vulnerability, and the fact that the crime is a breach of trust should be added to the list of aggravating features under the Sentencing Act. It is bit like asking children whether they like ice cream. We know what the answer will be. So those organisations would say to us: \u201CLook, we pay you to be there, so get off your bums and do it!\u201D Thankfully, we are, and I am pleased to see that the Labour Opposition is prepared to support that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u00229cf9e435c56d4a04b0229d64ef0f7e23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cf9e435c56d4a04b0229d64ef0f7e23\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We all abhor child abuse and neglect. I do not need to say that again; it has been well canvassed by others. We acknowledge that New Zealand does have a serious problem with child abuse and neglect. Some countries that we would like to compare ourselves with are as bad as us, but others that we would also like to compare ourselves with do better than us. Whether or not they do, we certainly aspire to do better than we are doing in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EAs has been said, we will not oppose the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill, but it is important to put on the record, for the benefit of the courts, just how much of this bill is window dressing and why it is being put through. National raised expectations during the election campaign that it would find quick solutions to these somewhat intractable problems, so National thought it necessary to introduce this face-saving legislation into this urgency motion and put it through under urgency. The Hon Simon Power is a person who honours more than most National members the traditions of Parliament and puts significant legislation through to select committees, particularly where it affects the rights of people. Of course, criminal justice legislation does that. The very fact that this bill is not going to a select committee shows that it is not of very much significance. So does the explanatory note of the bill, which as much as admits that all the factors set out in the bill are already taken into account in sentencing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThe only thing I would disagree with is on page 5 of the explanatory note, which states: \u201CHowever, as the factors that the court will be required to take into account are already usually taken into account under the current regime, we do not believe that this impact will lead to any substantive delay in courts.\u201D, because it will not change much. The explanatory note says these factors are \u201Calready usually taken into account\u201D. That is wrong. They are always taken into account now, because the law says that they \u201Cmust be\u201D, not that they \u201Cmay be\u201D. I think it is important to put on the record how new section 9A, inserted by clause 4 of this bill, compares with section 9 of the current Sentencing Act. Those aggravating factors must be taken into account under the existing legislation, as is made clear in section 9(1), which states: \u201CIn sentencing or otherwise dealing with an offender the court must take into account the following aggravating factors to the extent that they are applicable in the case:\u201D. There is no discretion; the courts must take aggravating factors into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EIf we look at the first of the so-called new aggravating factors that are provided for in new section 9A(2)(a) in clause 4 of the bill, we see the courts must take into account \u201Cthe defencelessness of the victim\u201D. The comparable section in the existing Act is 9(1)(g), and it reads that an aggravating factor that must be taken account is \u201Cthat the victim was particularly vulnerable because of his or her age or health or because of any other factor known to the offender:\u201D. Clearly that matter is already covered by section 9(1)(g) of the Act, and the new provision does not add anything to it. New subsection 9A(2)(b) in the bill says \u201Cin relation to any harm resulting from the offence, any serious or long-term physical or psychological effect on the victim:\u201D. Section 9(1)(d) of the existing Act already says the court must take into account as an aggravating factor \u201Cthe extent of any loss, damage, or harm resulting from the offence:\u201D. That is very broad and it clearly already covers serious or long-term physical or psychological effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003ESection 9(1)(e) of the current Act also requires that the courts take into account as an aggravating factor any \u201Cparticular cruelty in the commission of the offence:\u201D, so nothing new is introduced by new section 9A(2)(b) in clause 4 of the bill. New section 9A(2)(c) purports to say that \u201Cthe magnitude of the breach of any relationship of trust between the victim and the offender\u201D must be taken into account. Of course, that is already covered by section 9(1)(f) of the current Act. It states that an aggravating factor that must be taken into account by the court is \u201Cthat the offender was abusing a position of trust or authority in relation to the victim:\u201D. Nothing is added by the new subsection. New section 9A(2)(d) covers \u201Cthreats by the offender to prevent the victim reporting the offending\u201D. That is clearly covered by the existing provision in section 9(1)(a) of the Act, which requires the court to take into account \u201Cactual or threatened violence or the actual or threatened use of a weapon:\u201D. That is clearly covered there. The last aggravating factor in the new legislation, in new section 9(A)(2)(e), is the \u201Cdeliberate concealment of the offending from authorities.\u201D Again, that is covered by section 9(1)(i) of the existing Act, which talks about premeditation, etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EJudges will be scratching their heads about this legislation for two reasons. The first is the idea that without any legislation, judges would fail to find offending against children to be worse than offending against people who are not defenceless. That is nonsense. Judges are humane people, they are wiser than most of us, and they see the full ambit of crime. They already know what constitutes a more serious offence than other offending. I am confident that even without any legislation, the interests of children would be taken into account by judges when sentencing offenders. As if that were not enough, we already have law that makes that absolutely clear, because this is an area where it is important to make sure there are clear signals to the judiciary. That is why the legislation that was promulgated by the Hon Phil Goff and passed by this Parliament in 2002 already covers every one of the factors that are the subject of this bill. That is why I take issue with members on the other side of the House who are pretending that this bill somehow advances the protection of children, when it clearly does not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EI think if any further advice is needed on that, it is provided by Professor Geoff Hall through the newspapers, because he has not had the opportunity to do so through a select committee hearing. Once again I repeat that he said this legislation, although harmless, is also worthless, and that it adds nothing to the current law. For the record, Professor Geoff Hall is, if not the leading academic, then one of the two or three leading academics in this area of the law. He has experience that spans 4 decades. He is the author of the leading text in this area, Hall\u2019s Sentencing, and he has looked at this legislation and said unambiguously that it adds nothing to the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I say this bill is harmless and we will not be opposing it on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022 data-id=\u00224e323679e15f4f65b7bb29429f511f10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e323679e15f4f65b7bb29429f511f10\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E It is my privilege to speak on the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill\u2014as someone who has had the humbling and gut-wrenching task of prosecuting and sentencing many for child abuse in its variety of forms. One point that is perhaps less thought of, which occurs to me, is a potential application in relation to this amendment bill and focuses on the central point that the abuse of children comes in a variety of forms. This legislation may well enable courts\u2014and I emphasis that it absolutely will be for the courts; and I agree with the Hon David Parker that judges are wiser than most of us\u2014to deal with the increasing problem of the so-called \u201CP babies\u201D whom courts deal with directly and indirectly. This problem occurs when defenceless babies, through no fault of their own, are subjected night after night to P cook-ups in the same houses that they sleep in. It seems to me that those babies will be suffering under subclause 9A(2)(b) \u201Cserious or long-term physical or psychological effect\u201D and, in terms of 9A(1), they will certainly be neglected. That potential application is far more than window dressing, and it will enable courts to deal with that issue. This could make a difference in sentencing and it would indeed be very positive. There may well be other types of cases where this law can be used by the courts for the protection of children, and I am sure that no one in this House would disagree with that application and would not vote for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a350262d17f346f18a95b5cfe6d30f2e\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aae4a11c06a0499bb5a2eabd3cab70ef\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u002279a9393aaf894a6e901e64a75dac2316\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279a9393aaf894a6e901e64a75dac2316\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. This bill was the subject of some very worthwhile debate at its first reading, and that debate usefully crystallised some of the issues for the House. I thank the House for its unanimous support of this legislation. I think it was the Hon Annette King who made the statement that, from time to time, Parliament and politicians get it right when issues that matter come before us. I note the bipartisan offer from the Leader of the Opposition and the deputy leader of the Labour Party to work on issues of child abuse and crimes against children. I know that the offer was genuine, and I will certainly take that into consideration. I thank both the Leader of the Opposition and the deputy leader of the Labour Party for that. I also thank all members for the genuine way that they have approached the legislation. That is not to say I have agreed with everything they have said, but I believe that everybody has approached the issue in a way that has lent some weight to the discussions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EOffending against children that involves violence or neglect is far too common in our society, and the root causes of such offending are much more diverse and fundamental than can be targeted by sentencing in the criminal courts alone. No one today is suggesting otherwise. However, sentencing for such offending must, as I said earlier, reflect society\u2019s abhorrence of child abuse and the far-reaching impacts it can have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe Sentencing Act already lists some aggravating factors to be taken into account at sentencing that apply to offending against children. But this bill takes that further. The new factors will be considered alongside the existing factors, and can be distinguished from them, albeit subtly. I raise this issue because of the point that the Green member Metiria Turei made during the course of her contribution. Defencelessness can be distinguished from vulnerability by, for example, focusing on the degree to which the victim could find protection from an offender, rather than the fact that a particular child is more easily harmed or is somehow to blame in a situation of conflict, such as in the circumstances raised by the member. More important, the inclusion of the extra factors provides a clear signal to the courts that Parliament intends to take offending against children very seriously. Obviously, how the independent judiciary chooses to respond to that signal is, of course, entirely in its own hands. But I think the unanimous support in the House for this legislation today makes it clear what the representatives of the New Zealand public think about that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EIf the House passes this bill, the new law will come into effect in a matter of days. The court will take the new factors into account when sentencing all those who offend against children from day one. The reason the new provision could, I guess, be applied in that sense is that it does not amount to a penal enactment. Section 5 of the Sentencing Act provides that the Act will apply to offences committed before and after the commencement of the Act, with certain exceptions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe bill is a first step, and I accept the contributions from others who stated that there is much more to be done. Early next year I will be introducing a bill that deals with offences and maximum penalties available when children are the victims of offending. Other Government initiatives in the criminal justice area, such as denial of parole for the worst repeat violent offenders, will also have an impact on those who offend against children. However, we are dealing with sentencing today, and I will now turn to the policies behind the bill. Section 7 of the Sentencing Act provides that sentencing has several purposes. One is to hold the offender accountable for the harm his or her actions have done to the victim. Another is to promote in the offender a sense of responsibility for, or acknowledgment of, the harm he or she has caused. A third is to denounce the conduct in which the offender was involved. There are several other sentencing purposes listed, but I see this bill as furthering those three in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EWhen a child is a victim of violence or neglect, the offender has a lot to be held accountable for. Studies have shown that, by the age of 18, physically abused or neglected children may have impaired interpersonal skills, problems with academic performance, aggressive and violent behaviour, an increased risk of youth offending and suicide, and potentially a range of psychiatric disorders. Offending against a child can blight the victim\u2019s entire life and can have disastrous consequences for those who interact with him or her for years to come. That is why the bill expressly provides that the court must take into account the harm caused to the victim by the offending, including any serious or long-term physical or psychological harm. Offenders need to have it brought home to them what damage they have done, and the time for this to happen in any real and tangible way is at sentencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EAnother factor to which the bill draws the court\u2019s attention is the magnitude of the breach of the special relationship of trust that should exist between a child and an adult. A caregiver has responsibilities towards a child and a child has legitimate expectations of a caregiver. Sentencing should reflect the degree to which the caregiver has abandoned his or her responsibilities, and the sentencing process should work to force the offender to confront the level of harm that the offending has caused. As we have seen in recent cases, some offenders seem to consider violence against children as a normal part of being a caregiver. The sentencing process provides an opportunity to challenge that attitude. Finally, another purpose of sentencing is the denunciation by society of certain conduct. The level of penalty imposed by the court is a reflection of society\u2019s condemnation of particular conduct. A harsh penalty indicates that certain behaviour is unacceptable and demonstrates that it will not be condoned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EFew crimes are more unacceptable to a civilised society than attacks on its most defenceless and vulnerable members, which children undoubtedly are. This is aggravated when the offender has actual responsibility for the defenceless victim. Such conduct is unacceptable not only because of the harm it causes to the victim and, in the longer term, the community but also because such conduct is worthy of condemnation in its own right\u2014it is just wrong. Society needs to constantly reaffirm its repudiation of violence against children, because that repudiation is a mark of a sane, healthy society. We do that most concretely through sentencing for offending against children, and this bill strengthens that commitment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EAs a father, I want New Zealand to be a great place for kids to grow up in, where they are all safe and well cared for, as I am sure all members in this House do. As Minister of Justice, I want to be sure that people who place that safety in jeopardy are held accountable. As a Government, we want to ensure that families are stable, functional units contributing positively to society, and, as parliamentarians, we all have the opportunity to denounce the mistreatment and abuse of children by supporting this bill. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00226c6523f59ac14b89adc63776d465f13e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c6523f59ac14b89adc63776d465f13e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Although I would reiterate the comments that have been made by members on this side of the House that we will work constructively and positively with the Government where viable, workable, and achievable solutions are put forward, I just have to come back to some of the comments that were made by members opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that in the last 5 days the National Government has put forward a number of bills that are all about, to quote its members, \u201Csending a message\u201D. National members have done a lot of message-sending in the last 5 days. Going by the Minister of Justice\u2019s own words they are now sending another message, but we ask what has actually been achieved. If we look at the analysis that David Parker, who is a lawyer, took us through, line by line and clause by clause\u2014and he compared the new proposal with the existing legislation\u2014we see that he came to the same conclusion that Professor Geoff Hall came to. Professor Hall\u2019s conclusion was that there is nothing new at all in this bill and that, sadly, it is window dressing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EAt this point I address a comment to Mr Borrows, who said in response to our side quoting Professor Hall that he regarded the professor as having some credibility because he had said it was Parliament\u2019s job to use legislation to communicate with judges. Well, of course it is. That is what Parliament is for: to write legislation and to place it before the judiciary. It is therefore the job of the judiciary to interpret that legislation. But I gently say to Mr Borrows that he cannot have it both ways. He cannot regard Professor Hall as having a high degree of credibility and then rubbish his comment\u2014and I think it was also rubbished by Dr Worth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI will quote Professor Hall again. He said, with regard to the provisions that are already there, \u201CIt sounds to me like it\u2019s window dressing, what is being proposed,\u201D. Mr Borrows cannot say on the one hand that Professor Hall makes good points and that legislation is about communicating with judges\u2014well, of course it is; judges rely on legislation and they are charged with interpreting it\u2014and then say on the other hand, effectively, that Professor Hall does not know what he is talking about. Professor Hall agrees with David Parker, me, and all members on this side of the House when we note that these provisions do nothing new, even though we are supporting them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIf we come to the same conclusion as Professor Hall, then I reiterate Mrs King\u2019s point when she said that this legislation is, sadly, all about presenting an agenda to create a perception that there is a big, gritty, and weighty workload\u2014a plan of action\u2014during the great 100-day plan that will have a positive impact on the lives of New Zealanders. Well, we have seen that the Bail Amendment Bill mirrors this Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill in terms of new words, but there is a duplication of effort because the provisions of the legislation are already there. Judges, of course, are relatively unfettered by the factors that they can take into account. As I say, one would have to conclude that for the National Government this is more about politics than it is about substance. However, the people will judge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EMs Collins made a point that I think needs to be addressed. She said there was no need for the bill to be referred to a select committee. Over the last 5 days\u2014without getting into other areas\u2014that has been a clarion call from the National Government. The Government seems to say that because it won an election, which it did, and it is charged with putting legislation forward, which it is, the public should not get a proper say and, effectively, we should not have select committees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b79f9f41f382468a99964fd222d0d406\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ll want to do away with Parliament next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dc7ded1a7144f6180893821a587431d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know; the member would have to ask National members. If National\u2019s thesis is that an election victory means no public input thereafter\u2014the public has a vote and that is it\u2014then I suppose the public could put forward a proposition questioning why we have select committees. Why have them at all? Why allow members of the public and experts like Barnardos, the Salvation Army, the Children\u2019s Commissioner, and others to have a say? National won an election, so according to National the people have had their say and it is all over. Maybe we should simply adjourn the House, and National could put legislation through by edict. National would love that, I am sure; Cabinet could just sit there and sign off on the legislation. Why do we need 100-plus members of Parliament to debate, have input, and engage in those sorts of things? I think Ms Collins\u2019 point misses the mark, sadly. I think it would have been instructive to have received input from experts other than the departments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that Mrs King talked about the tongue-lashing that bureaucrats have received over the last month or so. Ironically, they are now being exclusively relied upon for consultation in respect of all these bills. The folks who are not being relied upon are the agencies that the police work with\u2014non-governmental organisations, for instance. I am sure Mr Borrows has worked with them and knows them well. I am sure that he found, in his career as a policeman and a lawyer, that those organisations provided added value to his work and the work of his staff. They are not getting a look in on this legislation because, so goes National\u2019s line, \u201CWe signalled this; it\u2019s happening. We won an election. The people had their say through a vote. We\u2019re just doing it.\u201D If that is a precedent that will go forward, then I think it is a very dangerous one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI do not think anybody in this House has a monopoly on all knowledge or expertise in every area, and certainly I do not. I rely on external non-governmental organisations, and people like Professor Hall and others, to provide information so that we can stand up and make a reasonably decent contribution in the House. But that also means engaging with those communities, and in this case it means engaging on the issue of child safety. However, we are not talking about the prevention of death in respect of this legislation. Sadly, we are talking about a measure that does not deal in a proactive way with the causes of what is happening, and that does not identify the causes of abuse, neglect, and violence towards children within the home. We are not saying we ought to bolster those measures and put resources behind them. We are dealing with an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, which is reactive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI say again to the Minister for Social Development and Employment that we are concerned about the 500 staff to whom the axe will be taken over the next year or so. We have not had any commitment from any member of the Government thus far to assure us that those people will not be the front-line staff who deal with the protection of children and the identification of violence, neglect, and abuse against children. We have not had any assurance that those positions will be preserved and, hopefully, enhanced, which is of concern to folks on this side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThe other point I make is that the bill does not do anything to address the 16,000-plus cases per year of substantiated child abuse and neglect. I think a silly comment may have been made at the end of Mr Parker\u2019s speech about Professor Hall\u2019s status; I hope that was not the case and that I misheard. Professor Hall has stated that there is nothing new in this legislation, that it will have no effect, and that it will not alter the status quo. We have already been told that the Minister of Justice, in some months\u2019 time next year, will bring to the House what he terms a \u201Crobust bill\u201D that will, hopefully, do something positive. The question then is what is the motivation and what are we really doing here in these last few sitting hours passing a bill whose provisions have already existed for some time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EWe all agree about the state of affairs around these sorts of awful cases. I note Mrs Katene\u2019s point about the repetition that goes on in respect of those cases. I have some mixed feelings about that, because I do share, to some extent, Mr Garrett\u2019s view that we should remind ourselves of those cases, that we should never forget the tragedies that have occurred, and that we should learn from them. Although I respect the views of those opposite, we have to ask what we are doing here if we are simply replicating what already exists. Sadly, there can be only one answer: there are some politics in this measure, and like the Bail Amendment Bill and the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill\u2014the provisions of which already exist\u2014this is about the National Government saying to the public that it has ticked all the boxes in the last 5 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003ESadly, I do not think the public will get the opportunity to scrutinise this legislation, unless the learned media go through it line by line with them and note that there is no new policy, no new action, and no new effect that will make people safer in respect of the bail legislation, that will add to our education system in respect of the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill, or that will save one child\u2019s life in respect of the legislation that will be passed today. I hope the public do get the opportunity to scrutinise this legislation, because that will assist in their assessment of the performance of National\u2019s great 100-day plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022 data-id=\u002260d5b614c9b6461c8cb30e1175f1956f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260d5b614c9b6461c8cb30e1175f1956f\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call in respect of the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill, just to restate a couple of points. As has been conceded, the way in which Parliament speaks to judges and the courts, and indicates to them that it wants a certain line to be taken on sentencing, is to do that through legislation\u2014we all know that. The fact is that this bill underlines society\u2019s abhorrence at the state of affairs in our country that sees us offend horribly against young children, and at the way that that offending is exploited, maybe through the media and also by those who want to gain points. So although there has been a lot of talk about this sort of offending over the campaign period, it is important, when the campaign finishes and we come before the House, to restate quite clinically and quite unemotionally that we want something to be done about this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EThe fact is that in this country we have a terrible tragedy whereby a significant number of our young people\u2014not necessarily a lot of them, comparatively\u2014are set up to fail. We know they are set up to fail, and there are a number of strategies we can take to be able to address that. This measure is but one of them. When people offend against children, we not only have the abhorrence of child abuse and the victimisation of those children but we also have the creation of offenders further down the track. It is estimated that about 70 percent of the people who sexually abuse children were sexually abused themselves as children, and those of us who have worked in the field would estimate that the percentages are much higher than that. The same thing, of course, relates to child physical abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EAlthough we mourn the names that have been used in the House this morning, where on the continuum of child abuse do we stop calling young people victims and start calling them offenders? When young offenders start to offend in this way\u2014and we have seen this in respect of the Nia Glassie case\u2014we have to accept and understand that they too were offended against. I believe that it is incumbent on every member of this House to take whatever step he or she can to rail against that, bit by bit, through small and large pieces of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EThe Hon Clayton Cosgrove made a significant point, and that is that we had consulted with the police and a number of other organisations in respect of this issue in preparing this bill. The fact is that when we are dealing with all those agencies through a day-to-day and day-by-day process, those agencies expect us to do some stuff when we come to this House. They expect us to know and to take on board the information that we have been discussing over the months and years\u2014and, in some cases, over the decades\u2014so that when we finally get into a position where we can have some influence on legislation that is intended to make things better, we do it. We should not muck around and come back with some fairly small and narrow pieces of legislation; we should just use the initiative and expertise we have, and the confidence that is placed in us, to just do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022 data-id=\u0022224eb076ece2415d9a1ef80bffb803f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022224eb076ece2415d9a1ef80bffb803f8\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As a member of this House I also want to record a number of points in the second reading of the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill. One is our abhorrence of violence of any kind, and certainly our abhorrence of family violence. As the Chief Commissioner of the Families Commission for the past 4 years, I can say that a huge amount of time has been spent on examining violence generally, and family violence in particular, from a number of quarters. So after that one cannot come to the House and do anything other than join with everyone in this House\u2014not just as members but also as fathers, husbands, and family members\u2014in abhorring that violence. We are all committed to doing something significant about this problem and to working with the Government to improve whatever proposals are put before us. We come to the House after a political campaign where this particular issue was an important one. But before I reflect on that, I want to say that I accept what the Hon Phil Goff said about the sincerity of the Minister of Justice, the Hon Simon Power, on this issue, and the importance of it. Indeed, if we could work collaboratively on this matter over the next period, then perhaps our collective experiences\u2014not just from our present roles but from our communities and from the areas in which we have worked\u2014might be useful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EThe point I want to make is that we should be looking forward to where the whole notion of doing something about family violence in this country might go. In the campaign we have just completed, law and order was a major issue. Certainly, Government members campaigned hard on it and\u2014one should be generous\u2014won on it. They promised, however, that in quick time the problem would be fixed and said that they had great ideas and would guarantee the outcome of family violence being eliminated. On our side, we campaigned on our message that a great deal of what was expected, of what was required, for doing something about family violence had indeed been done, and that many, many measures and a lot of resources had been put into this area. However, the perception endures in the community, and every now and again those cases that churn our insides, that get us to a stage where we do not want to look at television programmes about particular cases any more, bother us. So Opposition members are committed to working with the Government to eliminate this particular area of concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EHow we proceed to the next stage is really important. There is a huge number of people in New Zealand society\u2014and, indeed, of those with experience around the world\u2014who can guide us on this. I do not think we have in this House all of the expertise that is needed. What made our 4 years working in the Taskforce for Action on Violence within Families successful was that we committed ourselves to bringing together all of the intelligence from across Government departments, non-governmental groups, M\u0101ori, and Pacific people in order to focus on the problem. The success in terms of the campaign and the work we started was that we thought about it on the basis of bringing all the knowledge and best ideas together, finding the resources, then starting a long campaign to change New Zealand\u2019s performance, both in respect of family violence and of child abuse. I think that is the kind of approach that is required here, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d122c42dff24aca9e5140d974113023\u0022\u003EConsequently, I am concerned, like other members on this side of the House, that we are bringing one matter to Parliament to address when there are so many other pieces to address. Would it not be something to behold if a collective process could be identified so as to add to each other\u2019s thinking, develop a programme that needs to be put together, bring that to the House, and then take it further? But I also remind the Government now of the views it took when it was in Opposition. Indeed, it was very hard for the Opposition, because its spokesperson on social development was not able to participate in the multi-party family violence group. That was a shame, because several years of good experience is now lost, and needs to be put back in. So I hope that in the next period there will be a different approach, where members on this side of the House will be provided with opportunities to bring their experience to the table and where their input can help to address the problems we face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6a7113a850449c2a1b2465a266159f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6a7113a850449c2a1b2465a266159f2\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to address a couple of matters that have been raised since I spoke in the first reading debate. I am very pleased to hear that the Minister of Justice is taking seriously my concerns about section 9A(2)(a), inserted by clause 4, and is looking at the application of that provision in practice. If I am right\u2014and the Minister might want to correct me\u2014when he spoke in the second reading he said that the provision was not designed or expected to include looking at fault of the child or blaming the child but, rather, at whether the child could find protection. I ask the Minister whether that is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f63e10f965ca4d578016308fe713d272\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: What was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022398299a7a9fa41fda9e4b20f3bbd5636\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: That the issue is the extent to which the child could find protection. If that is the wording I heard from the Minister in his second reading speech, it concerns me somewhat, because I am not sure how one would factor into the sentencing of the offender the availability of protection for the child. The protection presumably would refer to factors external to the child, and external to the offender, actually\u2014other opportunities that might be available to that child, or alternatives to the situation that was going on. But in the court process there are only two parties: the offender and the victim. Any factor has to be related directly to either the offender or the victim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThe alternative way of looking at the issue of whether there was the possibility of protection for the victim would be to suggest that protection was available but the child did not avail himself or herself of it. Again, it comes back to the need to have a factor that is relevant to either the victim or the offender. Any factor that somehow, in any way, imports any kind of responsibility on to the victim in the circumstances of this legislation simply is not acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EWe will continue to have this discussion, no doubt, in the Committee stage. We might even hear more from Mr Garrett about why he considers that my amendment is not necessary, because it is about aggravating factors in sentencing. I am not quite sure of his reasoning, but I would be very willing to hear his argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EI have two responses to Mr Borrows\u2019 contributions. One is to afford him significant respect for his comment this afternoon that very many offenders are themselves victims, and there is a very line at which point one becomes one or the other\u2014that those two states, if you like, are not mutually exclusive. This is one of the reasons why the Green Party has campaigned very strongly against a legal system that is focused on punishment and retribution as opposed to rehabilitation, reintegration, and the elimination of reoffending. There is a very fine line between being an offender and being a victim in many of the cases we see go to the courts. If retribution is the No. 1 priority of the legal system, then we simply will not stop the reoffending that goes on. I have talked about that in discussions on other legislation, particularly the Bail Amendment Bill, which was recently before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThere was another comment that Mr Borrows made that I do not agree with at all and would like to refer to. Part of it is the discussion on the merit of including the provision about the defencelessness of a child. If the bill had gone to a select committee, the consideration that both the Minister and I are giving to those words in the legislation would have happened in the select committee process. In the second reading debate, which we are having right now, we would have been talking about the discussions that had happened in the select committee, the officials\u2019 report that dealt with the definition of those words, and the views of the submitters who had come to talk to us about the application of those words in practice in the courts. We are unable to have that discussion or get that input, because there has not been a select committee process where we could have had exactly that discussion. That makes for very poor lawmaking. I do not agree with Mr Borrows. He might think he knows everything in the world; I do not assume that for myself. I certainly would not claim, as he did, to know what the answer would have been from every person who might have wanted to make a submission to the select committee. I am sure he really did not mean that. I hope he did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003EThat is why the select committee process is so important, particularly when we are dealing with such significant legislation, and especially when we are dealing with legislation that is about criminal law, actually. The greatest power that the State has is the coercive power of the police, the armed forces, and the judicial system. It is the main area of the exercise of extreme State power in relation to our community as a whole, so it must be subject to the highest possible level of scrutiny by the members of the public themselves. They must know what the change in the relationship between them and the State will be. Also, we must make sure that the machinery of the State, in respect of criminal law, has the best and most correct mechanisms for dealing with the issue that needs to be dealt with. We must make sure that there are no erroneous powers given to the State, there are no holes in the powers that are given to the State, and the balance between the rights of the community and the State is properly met. That is why the select committee process, which includes public discussion, is very important when it comes to criminal law. We are missing out on that process on very important, critical legislation that deals with one of the most important issues that this country ever deals with, which is violence against, and neglect of, our most vulnerable citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022 data-id=\u00222b5bbe0aa3ab417f919ff53b5be9a8ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b5bbe0aa3ab417f919ff53b5be9a8ce\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a very short call just to address that one point, which seems to be the only one that is still causing any debate at all, and that is the role of select committees. I am not experienced, of course, with the mechanics of select committees, and I find that the select committee process is extremely important. But I think members have lost sight of the fact that this is a sentencing bill. It is, to use the left\u2019s terminology, a bottom of the cliff measure. Members from all sides of the House have agreed that it is not going to prevent these things happening, sadly, and that it is a reactive not a proactive measure\u2014that is all correct. Although the select committee process is an extremely positive thing where there is any kind of debate about causes, all that could have been achieved by sending this bill to a select committee, in my view, was delay. All that could possibly have come out of it were five factors for judges to take into account, none of them silly or unreasonable. So all that could possibly have come out of a select committee, after potentially a great deal of time, were another five or 10 factors. What would that have added to the legislation? In my view, it would have added nothing, aside from delay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EThe Government says that it has introduced the legislation at this time to get it in place prior to the holiday period, which, sadly for many people, is not just a time of rejoicing. We all know that the rate of family violence goes up during the supposed festive season, so this is a case where sending this bill to a select committee would have been a retrograde step and an occasion for more wastage of trees and wastage of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EIn my view, this is an example where not referring a bill to select committee is not in any way taking away from the democratic process; in fact, it is enhancing it, in that something is getting done that does not require public input. Factors for judges do not require public input, really, in this kind of situation, and select committee referral would have resulted in the bill perhaps not being reported back until the middle of next year. So in this case, and in this kind of situation, I think that the select committee process can be seen as non-enhancing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f84248575ef4e55bfd19a6b5232d6cf\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022 data-id=\u00228113b2429f534c508f5bf6caac497054\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272163d48ec734e53abfd3df187a6cf9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228113b2429f534c508f5bf6caac497054\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the Committee for the four clauses to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022738857ef67d04a64ad5d41a70ce92f72\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022329f1a393cba435889d1873dd0cd8e2c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002223d1f7039d544b19a10720d44d83e709\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0f3060349064b16b2d5c9ecfed66888\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0f3060349064b16b2d5c9ecfed66888\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Bearing in mind the nature of the debate that has occurred we are not going to labour the point, but I just want to raise a couple of very short points with the Minister. The first is whether he could briefly go into a little more detail in respect of Ms Turei\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper. I have talked to the cross benches about the ramifications of the points that she made, which I think are very valuable points. The second point I wanted to touch on, and again I mean this in a genuine way, is whether the Minister could perhaps provide some of the rationale, if he will, behind the new points and the new factors that are raised here, because we do still make the point to him that there is duplication. I would be interested from his officials\u2019 point of view in a little more detail to address the points that Mr Parker raised as he went through and did some legal analysis, because Mr Parker\u2019s thesis was that there is no difference here. As a third point I would make the plea\u2014I suspect I will not get a response today, but being an eternal Irish optimist\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cb093d0807844198a891842b5e7c4d9\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: As am I.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d61d1d30c554cd389d7609833a5e80e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed. I would just ask him whether he is prepared to speak again briefly about the parole legislation, and whether he will give us some sort of time frame if he is not prepared to trigger it as we have invited him to do, whether he would be prepared to offer some brief explanation as to what he proposes to do around that parole issue; whether he is going to bring some new ideas or new legislation to the Parliament\u2014if so, when, and what that would be\u2014or whether he is prepared again to acquiesce to our request to trigger it. Because I say in conclusion that that will have a real and significant impact on the safety of New Zealanders, unlike the two pieces of law and order legislation that we have dealt with in the last 48 hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba199065a63442a38739d58f6bf39c6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba199065a63442a38739d58f6bf39c6c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Clayton Cosgrove for the series of reasonable and rational questions he put to me in the chair today. I will address two of those matters, but the first matter I want to address is the matter raised by the Green Party, although that was the third matter that Mr Cosgrove brought to the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EI noted that the Green Party member said she was not interested in what the law intended, and what she was interested in was what was actually going to happen. I can talk a bit about both those things, if I may. The issue of defencelessness is not in any way intended to align or design a behaviour on a scale of circumstances that might excuse behaviour because of a particular set of circumstances peculiar to an individual child, whether his or her age be 14 years or, for that matter, less than 1 year, for example. In no way is it designed to allow for the apportionment of blame to a child, nor is it about shifting the blame for a child\u2019s behaviour, size, or capacity in the sense that the member raised earlier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EAs I said in my second reading speech\u2014and I accept there is a very subtle difference between defencelessness and vulnerability\u2014it is my view and the Government\u2019s view that defencelessness can be distinguished from vulnerability by focusing on the degree to which the victim could find protection from the offender, rather than on the fact that children in themselves are more easily harmed or are somehow more to blame than adults would be in those circumstances. I accept the point the member has made, and I think it is a particularly valuable contribution to the debate. It is quite a subtle, technical point, but I can assure her there is absolutely no intention to allow the types of circumstances that she describes to occur within the bounds of the legislation as it is designed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EBefore I address the other two points made by the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, I say to the M\u0101ori Party members that I think the contribution made in seeking advice from the Children\u2019s Commissioner brought another dimension to the consultation, which, given the time frames we are operating in, was a valuable contribution to the debate. The reason for the age, as members from the M\u0101ori Party will appreciate, is to align it directly with the Child, Youth and Family legislation. The debate about the age of a child in the more general sense is one that will continue, as domestic and international obligations in that regard do not always align. I can think of a couple of situations off the top of my head that eventually we will have a discussion about in this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EOn the matters raised by the Hon David Parker, I thought that what he said was a particularly good contribution, because it was technical around some of the issues. But I do not share his view, I say to Mr Cosgrove, that these clauses do not add anything to the discussion. The specificity that they bring to the matters to which a sentencing judge must turn his or her mind is quite poignant and pointed. The law of statutory interpretation\u2014if I can reach back into my first-year law days\u2014is clear that specific sections or clauses take priority over those of a more general and wider application. In the event that we are able to set up a specific section relating to children, the sentencing judge would give his or her attention to that matter first, I say to Mr Cosgrove, prior to the more general provisions. That is why that is important, and that is why specificity is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EIn respect of matters surrounding parole, I just say two things: all in good time, and members should watch this space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0e1c89e59bd49128cfaef97e87da245\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221db3990bc44c4d148634e910cc64f455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0e1c89e59bd49128cfaef97e87da245\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green): \u003C/span\u003EI appreciate the comments made by the Minister of Justice, Simon Power, and the seriousness with which he has taken my concerns. I still think there may be some room for misinterpretation of that provision in practice, but, assuming that if there was such a misinterpretation at some point in the future it could be dealt with in other ways, I think it will be worthwhile to withdraw Supplementary Order Paper 2 in my name at this stage, in the spirit of the whole of the Parliament supporting the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill. I think there is no need for anyone to take any divisions or votes, because we all agree on the importance of the legislation, and because the issue is taken seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd084a780b0343dda67916a106b7b022\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary Order Paper 2 in the name of Metiria Turei has been withdrawn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e409c0a2524b41bea71d97ce9fb50a37\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002252a001c607ae486893e5a8d6c295c986\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022a49981a11f924b5d8593d509d0f68a6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a49981a11f924b5d8593d509d0f68a6b\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. I thank all political parties in this House this afternoon for the way in which they have approached this legislation. I appreciate that this is often an environment where, under urgency and with these long hours, things can spark up a fraction, but I do appreciate the way parties have approached the legislation. Issues raised by all members on all sides of the House have brought in quite a considerable quality of debate. I include the Labour Opposition members in that, as well, particularly David Parker, who brought quite a technical discussion to the fore. I single out Metiria Turei for two things. Firstly, her discussion around the issue of defencelessness was a genuine one, and I am humbled by the fact that she withdrew her amendment in order to show that the whole House was supportive of this legislation. I give her an undertaking that if there are any difficulties with that particular clause and I am still the Minister of Justice, it will be dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe bill encourages tougher sentences for offences against children that involve violence or neglect. It denounces such conduct, as does this Government and, I am proud to say, as does this entire Parliament. This is our first step in dealing with child abuse. Other criminal justice legislation, and initiatives in other portfolios, will further address the mistreatment of children and the dysfunction of families, but this is a timely step as the Christmas break approaches and children are especially at risk in stressful environments of mistreatment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EWe cannot know the true extent of offending against children. Family violence is notoriously under-reported, with recent research, published in the reputed UK medical journal The Lancet, indicating that as few as one in 10 cases are reported to social service agencies in countries such as Canada, Australia, and the UK. In New Zealand, data on criminal convictions is not stored according to the age of the victim, making it impossible to identify the scale of the problem at that basic level. But we do know that Child, Youth and Family investigates more than 16,000 cases of child abuse each year. Violence or neglect is a regular part of the lives of far too many of our children; one instance is one too many. We all have a responsibility to confront this issue, and I encourage all New Zealanders to report instances of offending against children, regardless of those persons\u2019 relationship to the offender.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EThe bill has moved through the House very quickly, and I make no apologies for that. The policy was clearly announced and campaigned on; voters provided a mandate for it, and so has this Parliament. It would be hard to find a rational person who did not agree that offending against children merits our denunciation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EAs I said, this is just the first step. This new legislation will see the perpetrators of abuse appropriately punished, and will go some way to protecting our children, but we can and must do more. Many of us have followed the recent series of articles in the New Zealand Herald on child abuse and the organisations that have been set up to work with victims and families. Because we are confronted daily with reports of appalling offending against children, it is easy to slip into a mindset that sees such offending as being inevitable and unavoidable. As Parliamentarians, we must all resist that conclusion and do everything we can to develop effective law in this area. As Minister of Justice, my responsibility lies with the sentencing for offences against children, but I can assure the public of New Zealand that my Cabinet colleagues with social policy portfolios are also looking at this issue from other angles. As a Government, we are determined to safeguard the lives of our nation\u2019s children who are, of course, the future of this country. But it is not solely the Government\u2019s responsibility, or Parliament\u2019s responsibility, to address child abuse. As a nation, we all have a responsibility to confront this issue. From the social service agencies the New Zealand Herald is featuring, to families and wh\u0101nau, and to neighbours and friends, we all have a duty to protect and nurture the lives of our children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022914726d4692b4b5a882edc0f525d7169\u0022\u003EWe are now just less than 2 weeks from Christmas, traditionally known as the season of peace and goodwill. For too many children in the past years the opposite has been true. I hope this Christmas is different. I hope that our children can enjoy a summer and a holiday; it is their right and this bill reinforces that right. Next year members will be seeing more reform to the criminal justice system, but we have started today with reform for children. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022 data-id=\u00224c9f1dbe845348c3aa28ce3127781371\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c9f1dbe845348c3aa28ce3127781371\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make just a short contribution to this debate. Firstly, I commend the Minister for his management and conduct of this issue. I think he has a reputation, both as a member of the Opposition and now as a member of the Government, as a person who deals with issues very honourably. That stands in stark contrast to what we have seen from one or two of his colleagues in the last 5 days. But, that being the case, let us continue on with the season to be jolly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EThis is a serious issue, and I just reiterate, as all members have done, that we share the same emotion in terms of the revulsion we feel for the conduct perpetrated by some people against children. But I make the point that the Government has not outlined one factual example of aggravating conduct under this legislation that is not already catered for as aggravating conduct under existing legislation. Given that that is the case, one wonders what the purpose of this legislation is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI hope the Government will place as much emphasis as possible on examining, resourcing, and dealing with the causes of this behaviour against children, because I believe\u2014and I think we all believe\u2014that in doing so we can prevent these tragedies from occurring, prevent injury, and ultimately prevent the loss of life. This legislation alone, by the Minister\u2019s own admission and those of others, will not alter what has occurred. I want to reiterate Professor Hall\u2019s comments, and I think it would be valuable for the Minister to perhaps have a conversation with Professor Hall, who is probably New Zealand\u2019s foremost authority on sentencing. He has made the point that this legislation is window dressing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270554c5adf504342b428015d31729156\u0022\u003EI close by reiterating the comments of my leader, Phil Goff, who said that we stand ready as an Opposition to work cooperatively, constructively, and positively with the Government, where appropriate, viable, and workable solutions are put up by it. That does not mean we will agree on every particular detail of those solutions, but we acknowledge that this is an issue of moment, and that this is an issue that is far too important to play politics with. I thank the Minister for his conduct, and I hope some of his colleagues will mirror his example. We commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022 data-id=\u00220c48e226061c433fbd4dcebba71ecf7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c48e226061c433fbd4dcebba71ecf7e\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to be able to come to the end of the transition of the proposed Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill into enactment and to know that there is the widest of support for it across the House. It is important to bring in pieces of legislation that are precise, that address narrowly certain issues, and that add to a collective of legislation that actually deals with the problem\u2014if not in a strictly preventive sense, at least by addressing the problem as it is within society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to be here on a Saturday under urgency, dealing with this bill. Many investigators around the country are dealing with exactly this kind of tragic circumstance, whether it is child homicide, or child beating, or some other form of neglect. They are working very hard on these things. There is nothing worse than to go through the legal process then not obtain a result; to see a 4, 5, 6, or 7-year-old muster up the courage to give evidence against an abuser, only to find that a conviction is not obtained. It is important to give the judiciary the tools to be able to deal adequately with these offences when a conviction is obtained, and to deal with them in a way that is more in keeping with society\u2019s reflection on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223034811e37a94c22aa53472559f99d85\u0022\u003EIn closing, I would like to say that I look forward to seeing over the next little while a bipartisan approach to what we all know, and that is the fact that in this country we can identify the at-risk foetus. We know that the child who grows up to fail in the areas of health, welfare, education, and law and order is born to a woman who has children at a very young age, and may have up to three pregnancies before she is 20; we know she left school with very few qualifications, if any; we know she works in a low-wage occupation or is on a benefit; we know there is very little engagement whatsoever with any positive role models in her life; we know she smokes tobacco; we know she is dependent on alcohol and some other substance; and we know that if we can identify the father, he comes from the same demographic. When we have all this knowledge, when we live in an age when we can put spacecraft on Mars, we must address this issue. The willingness of members of Parliament to vote together on this small piece of legislation, and to pledge to work together on the much broader problem before us, is very comforting, and should be comforting to those listening and those who will reflect on the passing of this bill today. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022 data-id=\u0022af6fc82bed5541d4b58505dcb65a8a27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af6fc82bed5541d4b58505dcb65a8a27\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I do not intend to delay this House for long at all. I do not think there is any need to draw out this debate, as I think everything has been said. Today we have seen the House at its best, because we have come to an agreement across the Chamber around the broad issue of addressing child abuse in New Zealand. I think the most positive thing to come out of this debate is the hand that has now been stretched out by the Minister Simon Power in saying that he, too, would like to work across party lines on child abuse. We will have to see how that manifests itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that I look forward to addressing the other legislation that he intends to introduce next year. Labour may not agree with that legislation, but we look forward to his introducing it and giving this House the opportunity to debate it and send it to a select committee, where the public can have a say on it. I believe that the only way we will solve an issue as complicated as child abuse\u2014and for that matter, I say to the Minister, family violence\u2014is to have a bigger conversation with New Zealanders. As much as we would like to fix the problem as politicians, and as much as we can put ambulances at the bottom of the cliff\u2014and we can have our legislation, our education, and our prevention programmes\u2014unless we have buy-in from the community and a belief that we can do something about it, we will be beating our gums for years to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003ESo it is important, in terms of any moves we make, that we bring the wider community alongside us. That community is not just the community of people who are poor or sole parents. Child abuse and family violence can happen in the home on the hill with the flashest car in the driveway. We know that these issues exist right throughout the community. We also know that some families have risk factors associated with them. In those cases, if we intervene early enough and have the right programmes in place, we could make a huge difference to preventing some of the tragic cases that we are all so familiar with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e6d5ac3280248b095a2b12ac084b82a\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that this bill will pass its third reading shortly and receive its Royal assent on Monday\u2014along with the other one, no doubt. We acknowledge that this measure will not stop these cases, but it will do no harm. At least it has started a debate on this issue. There is much more to do. I hope that this is not the end of the debate on this issue, and that we will take it further for the good of the children in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab250c75e84a4479bda81eb247d8810b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab250c75e84a4479bda81eb247d8810b\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill. I think it is really important in these debates that we remember what we are after. I think that in a lot of the debate about being tough on crime and all the rest of it, we lose track of the final objective. We want to live in a safer society, and we want to live in a society where people are free from violence. It is important to remember that that is where we are trying to get to. We often get caught up in all the punitive stuff, and get caught up in dealing with all the people we do not like who have done really bad things. That is totally understandable, but we need to keep focused on our objective, which is that we want to live in a safe society, and we want to live free from violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has been an opponent of violence. It is part of our charter. One of our fundamental principles is to oppose violence, and we have a deep hatred of violence. But we accept that there is widespread violence in our society, and anything we can do to reduce violence should be supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWe are supporting this bill, but we are pretty sceptical about what it can do. The reason we are sceptical is that it does not appear to add a lot to existing law. There has been quite a bit of discussion today about that. Looking at section 9 of the Sentencing Act 2002, \u201CAggravating and Mitigating Factors\u201D, I see that a lot of what is in this bill already appears to be law. It is hard to see that the bill adds much to existing law. We will support it because it does not seem to do any harm, but we are not convinced that it adds a lot to what is already there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EWe would really like to see a lot more emphasis on avoiding reoffending. It would be great if as much energy went into preventing offending in the first place as goes into putting in place punishments and talking about what we will do about crime once it has happened. The Green Party would like to see most of our energy directed to preventing violence in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI take note of comments made earlier. I think it was Chester Borrows who said that offenders have often been victims themselves in the past, and I think it is important that we question what resources, time, and energy we could put in to stop that cycle of violence. That seems to me to be one of the key things. What support will we put into prisons, so that prisoners can get drug rehabilitation, access to literacy skills and education, and access to the kinds of skills they need to get a job when they get out? Are we willing to spend the millions and millions of dollars that it would take to do rehabilitation properly? It is all very well to say that we will lock people up for longer and all of that, but if we are really serious about breaking the cycle of offending, then we need to stump up with a whole bunch of money for rehabilitation. It is not cheap; it is really expensive. It is actually not a cheap thing to do. We cannot just pass a law, and we cannot just lock people up; if we are serious about avoiding violence in the long term, we also need to ask what we are doing at the top of the cliff. What fences are we building at the top of the cliff? How are we supporting people when they come out of prison? Are we providing them with the support and the skills they need so that they can get a job, and so that they do not get back into more offending and a cycle of violence? That is where we would like to put our energy. That is where we think the energy of this Parliament and this Government should go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThat ties into one of the key things in all of this: dysfunctional families. The Greens think we should be providing more support to families. We think that increased fines for truancy, which we have been talking about today, will not help families. How will it help families that are already in trouble? So many families are already in trouble, and how do we help them by giving them a $3,000 fine? How does the 90-day trial period bill help them? It means that parents are less likely to have a secure job. If we are serious about avoiding violence against children, which we all say we are, then we have to ask what we are doing to support families that are under pressure and in trouble. That should be the first thing we do. That should be where we put most of our money, and that should be where we put most of our energy, rather than putting all our time and energy into rhetoric about the prison at the bottom of the cliff. What about increasing the minimum wage? All of those are issues that could take pressure off families. We need to support families so that the parents have more time and can do their job properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party took a lead in terms of violence in changing section 59 of the Crimes Act. It was very reassuring to us that the latest UMR Research survey found that there had been a change in attitude to physical punishment of children. In 1993, 87 percent of those polled thought that there were times when it was OK to use corporal discipline; this has now come down to 58 percent\u2014from 87 percent to 58 percent, according to a UMR Research survey released by the Children\u2019s Commissioner. We think that is progress. It is about a culture shift in our society in relation to the way we treat children. The Green Party was very proud to lead the campaign to amend section 59. Once again, we accept that it was not the whole solution; it was only one small part of the jigsaw puzzle, but it was really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EI will reiterate and reflect on the comments about making sure that the Ministry of Social Development\u2014in particular, Child, Youth and Family\u2014has the money it needs to do the job properly. Let us make sure it has the money it needs. That should be a priority. It is all very well to talk about increasing sentencing and all of that, but what are we doing to make sure that the agencies that actually have to intervene in troubled families and families under pressure have the resources they need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EFinally, I hope there is more consultation with the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner, because I think this kind of legislation would benefit from that kind of input. Obviously, it would have been much better had the bill gone to a select committee so that we could have had the benefit of that whole process, and I would certainly encourage the Minister of Justice in future to maintain an open dialogue with the Children\u2019s Commissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb65d9a7b34f4403af4847ce39ffa80a\u0022\u003EThe Greens will be supporting this bill, even though we think that it does not make any substantial progress. We do not think that it does any harm. We also thank the Minister for his reassurances about the \u201Cdefencelessness\u201D provision, and we hope that he will keep an eye on those cases as they work their way through, to see whether there are any problems with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a35dca9f5d884cd4adb8b0b1dadeb4c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002221de539528ed4fb68bfc0135443184f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a35dca9f5d884cd4adb8b0b1dadeb4c4\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E My first contribution to this debate on the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill was a hope that in this kind of situation there could be a multi-partisan approach to pass this bill, and that is indeed what has happened. I think there has been some very useful comment from all sides. ACT began in the first reading by supporting this bill along with all the other parties, and we end by doing exactly the same thing. We disagree somewhat with the previous speaker, Dr Russel Norman, that it may be of no account at all. No one thinks that it is the whole solution, but if only one potential child basher is given some pause for thought over this coming festive season, then we will have done something good today. We support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022 data-id=\u00227b7c8c67098e49dbbbed44d6e1d9101a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b7c8c67098e49dbbbed44d6e1d9101a\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E On television last night a young mum was asked about her son. Her instantaneous joy at thinking about her child was obvious as her face lit up, and she said: \u201CFrom the day he was born, you couldn\u2019t take the smile off of all of our faces. He made us glow every day.\u201D This Christmas that glow has been replaced by the dull, gnawing pain of a family trying to learn to live without their boy\u2014a boy who was described as his dad\u2019s hands and legs, in reference to the support he provided to his father, who is a tetraplegic. At the beginning of this year that young boy was stabbed to death by a 50-year-old businessman, who took the law into his own hands, and now a jury of his peers has handed down a sentence, not of murder but of manslaughter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI take the time to refer to that case because it is entirely relevant to what we are trying to do today in this Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill: to send the signal that violence against children is not OK at any time or in any place. The crime that cost that boy his life was that he was allegedly about to tag a fence. Tagging, of course, was the hot topic for the last Parliament, and I recall, when listening to proceedings from the outside, being amazed at the extravagant language and dramatic rhetoric that accompanied the debate in the House. Politicians from all parties, except the M\u0101ori Party, the Greens, and ACT, voted venomously to outlaw graffiti, creating the perception that the violence of vandalism was the issue of fundamental and paramount importance on our horizons as a nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EWithout relitigating that debate, I want to place it on the record that I am absolutely opposed to tagging, and that I accept that it is appropriate to consider any instances of tagging within the context of property law. But I would question the way in which politicians have demonised taggers, and the exaggerated hyperbole that has embellished the debate. I cannot reconcile the dramatic overreaction to tagging with the seeming understatement about the loss of the life of another child. Have we become so desensitised to the horror of murder that the extreme vigilante action of that case is tolerated because, after all, a fence was allegedly about to be tagged? Is it acceptable for a citizen to chase a boy with a knife, and to kill him with that same knife? Was the crime of tagging property deserving of a death sentence for that teenager? Is it acceptable that the crime of the adult was excused as arising from frustration and an intention not to kill, yet a youngster was killed? That was apparently so for a Christchurch city councillor, who infamously said of the accused: \u201CIf I was on the jury, I\u2019d let him get away with it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EAny violent crime is intolerable, but that is particularly the case when it is directed against children. This week the Unicef survey of how well 25 OECD countries treated their young people placed New Zealand at 19th out of 25 countries on the measure of infant mortality. The horrendous incidents of violence against children, which we read about every day, have shamed us internationally, to the extent that we as a nation are found to have neglected the responsibility we must take up to set in place basic minimum standards for the care and protection of children. Strong, high-level leadership and coordination must be shown if we are to achieve the protection of children from violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EI congratulate the New Zealand Herald on its action this week in running a series of articles on child abuse and promoting the agencies and strategies that are available to keep our children safe. We need the conversation that condemns violence and neglect against children to be a priority at every level of society. The New Zealand Herald is running the \u201COur Lost Children\u201D series, and one of the articles featured Soala Wilson, who, in 1999, was awarded the title \u201CPacific Island businessperson of the year\u201D. The Grey Lynn businesswoman has taken the brave step of speaking out about the horrific physical abuse she has experienced, after having been beaten as a child with the belt, the chair, or whatever else was around. She made this proud declaration to the New Zealand Herald: \u201CI will never stop talking about it until society\u2014families, churches, stop telling me to keep a lid on abuse. I won\u2019t\u2014I will not stop until society and families start speaking up and stop living in fear.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThis bill is another approach for Parliament to start speaking up and stop living in fear. It builds on the excellent work established by Sue Bradford in repealing section 59 of the Crimes Act, which ensured that assaults on children in the name of \u201Cdiscipline\u201D were outlawed. It builds on the strong foundation of an incredible network of agencies and advocates who do so much in caring for our children: groups like Te Kahui Mana Ririki, Te Korowai Aroha, Unicef, Plunket, Save the Children, Barnardos, CCS Disability Action, Tipu Ora, the M\u0101ori Women\u2019s Welfare League, and many more. It builds on the precedent established by our wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi, our nannies and koros, and our aunties and uncles\u2014those who strive to place loving arms around all of our children to keep them from harm. It builds on the work of the dedicated social workers, teachers, childcare workers, nurses, police officers, hauora providers, and k\u014Dhanga reo kai\u0101whina who, every day, watch over our children. It builds on the leadership of all New Zealanders who are prepared to stand up for children, and to become superheroes who insist that our children must be treasured. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is passionate about the campaign to eliminate violence from our lives. We salute all of those cause champions who have challenged society to speak up for our children. We celebrate the tribal leaders who are encouraging an environment upon our marae in which those who have perpetrated violence are forbidden from the privilege of speaking on the paepae. We want to see every school, every institution, and every residence practise strategies that prevent violence and promote safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EThe briefing to the incoming Minister from the Children\u2019s Commissioner recommended that \u201Clong-term investment in the restoration and rejuvenation of Maori whanau, hapu, iwi and communities is required for the overall future wellbeing of many Maori children and young people.\u201D It is advice that we wholeheartedly endorse. We cannot focus just on the sentencing of an offender, without at the same time investing in healthy outcomes for those who have been offended against. We want to see all families wear the glow of their children, and to make all parents beam with the smile of pride and love for their sons and daughters. We must make the effort to publicly express the value of children and child rearing, to promote respect for our children, and to aspire towards a violence-free culture. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ba3e210d47c40229fc4ab658e334326\u0022\u003EAs we approach the Christmas season, perhaps that is the one gift that we in Parliament can encourage every family to invest in: the gift of unconditional love for the precious hope of our future. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022 data-id=\u00224fd29764123c46d9854b1100ffeb1711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fd29764123c46d9854b1100ffeb1711\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise today to take a call in support of the Sentencing (Offences Against Children) Amendment Bill\u2014a bill that stands up for the most defenceless members of our society. Society is sickened by the abuse of our children, and it has been heartening to sit here this afternoon and listen to the debate in this House, and hear the unanimity with which this House has condemned those sorts of actions. Abuse of our children is abhorrent, and it will not be tolerated. In fact, the only real dissension or points of difference that I have heard in this debate this afternoon have focused on two small points. One is the criticism that the bill will not stop abuse, and the second is the question of whether it is needed under existing law. I want to speak to those two matters today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EI comment that in law and order we have, of course, two things to do. We first have to work to prevent harm\u2014and that is the most important goal\u2014but equally we must also ensure that those who commit crime are properly punished. That is the part that this bill seeks to achieve; its primary focus is not in the category of working to deter harm. Having said that, I do not accept that it is entirely outside of that category, because all sentencing does have some deterrent effect\u2014but that is not the primary purpose of the bill. The bill will, though, help deliver tougher sentences, and that is why it is important. Even though New Zealand has such a high degree of offending against children, the current Sentencing Act does not have any express guidance for the courts to deal with violence against or abuse of children under 14. That is why this bill is important, and that is why it will make a difference to the sentences that are handed down to child offenders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EWe accept that the bill is not a silver bullet. This will not magically cure the problems of society, but it is\u2014as members have heard already today\u2014the first part of our plan to deal with these issues. I think it is an important part of that plan. I was fortunate during my legal training to have the opportunity to work as junior counsel for children. I think we would all agree that these cases are some of the most difficult emotionally and legally to deal with in the courts. It is a matter that we take incredibly seriously. But the first step in that is making sure that we have appropriate responses to violent offences against children, and by having specific aggravating factors built into the Sentencing Act we will see that flowing through into the sentences that are handed down in these cases. It obliges the court to take account of these matters in its sentencing, and in that respect it is an absolutely necessary part of the legal system. I just wanted to take a short call today to make those points. I join with the other members of this House in commending this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 4.59 p.m. (Saturday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20081209518af082718646058a593d56e6c1cc08000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa305f10c9fb401682584329e57d481f\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"