"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002223d4909f2cf947a4bbfe56512b021788\u0022\u003ETuesday, 10 February 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c26b07d119104e3a94722a45a7e9395f\u0022\u003ETuesday, 10 February 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c07fad3d92d14cfe9cbb6ff0bdf52a61\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222809b6e5f337416c813472416ce12b48\u0022\u003EBushfires\u2014Victoria, Australia\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b78c37730f7a459d957969d3d0d4ed56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b78c37730f7a459d957969d3d0d4ed56\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the House to move a non-controversial motion, with debate, to express its sorrow at the devastating bushfires raging in the Australian state of Victoria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223949ebb38d384ae088d40eab1599090e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff385a1e94df463a8a6fe2a1b482c1aa\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House express its deepest sympathy and condolences to the people of Victoria, Australia, who have suffered such devastation and tragic loss of life in the bushfires that have raged across the state in recent days, and that it commend the men and women who are working to put out the fires and to assist the many victims of this tragedy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the Government and all New Zealanders, I would like to offer my sincere sympathy to the people of Victoria, Australia, as they battle some of the most horrific bushfires in their nation\u2019s history. Over the past days, as we have seen the devastation unfolding on our television screens, the enormity of what is happening has burned into our consciousness. At times like this the closeness and importance of the relationship between our two countries comes to the forefront. The outpouring of support from New Zealanders has been genuine and heartfelt. Throughout our relatively short history, the Anzac partnership has remained strong. Whether on the sporting field, in business, or in the theatre of war, we are partners. We are competitive, certainly, but at heart we are always friends. At times like this, we realise just how special that bond with Australia is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the New Zealand people, the Government has offered 100 firefighters to assist the Australians who are already battling the blaze, and Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has accepted. Since January 2003 there has been a formal agreement in place to facilitate this process, because in the world of firefighting there are no borders between New Zealand and Australia. Our firefighters have always been there for Australia\u2019s firefighters, just as I am sure that they would be there for us if, unthinkably, we suffered such a great tragedy. Our Government has also pledged $500,000 to a Red Cross Society fund that will go directly to help those injured or left homeless by the bushfires, and that New Zealanders are already supporting in their thousands by telephone and bank donations. The Red Cross Society will take no administration fee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThe suggestion that some of these fires have been deliberately lit defies belief and magnifies the tragedy of the situation. If words can convey our message to Australia, we say this: in the times of greatest need New Zealanders look across the Tasman for support and we immediately find it\u2014our relationship is like no other\u2014and at this time we stand shoulder to shoulder with Australians to battle the blaze that will be marked forever in the history of their great nation. Kia kaha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022de2345dfcf914926a2dcaa56e4fba6f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de2345dfcf914926a2dcaa56e4fba6f1\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E As the leader of the Labour Party, I wish to join with, I believe, all other members of this House and, indeed, all New Zealanders in expressing our condolences to the families of some 173 people who are now confirmed as dead in the fires in Victoria, Australia. This is a huge human tragedy, and I think that as New Zealanders all of our hearts go out to those who have lost loved ones and to the many others who have lost their homes and their personal possessions. I think something in excess of 700 homes have been destroyed in the fires. We can talk about the statistics, but the photographs on the front page of the Dominion Post this morning show the human tragedy behind those statistics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E New Zealand and Australia have a renowned competitiveness on the sports field\u2014it is no holds barred, no prisoners taken\u2014but I think this is a time to remind ourselves that our family and our personal links with Australia and Australians are closer than those with any other country in the world. As New Zealanders we have enormous sympathy for those whose lives have been devastated by the fires. We want to help, and I believe that the offer of our firefighters is a good first step. They went there in 1986, and they performed their role in a way that made New Zealanders proud. Our firefighters want to be there alongside their Australian mates to help them out. I support the district health boards that have offered places in the burns units, and I certainly support the Government\u2019s initiative, and the initiative of individual New Zealanders, in making financial assistance available to those who have suffered losses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe fires are still burning. I support the resolution before the House and any assistance that we are called upon to give, or can offer to give, as good neighbours to our friends in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5293099a2ed48318695d83a85e7d84e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5293099a2ed48318695d83a85e7d84e\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party of Aotearoa / New Zealand sends its sympathy and condolences to those who have lost loved ones in the tragic bushfires in Australia. We also support the offer made by the Prime Minister to send firefighters to assist. We respectfully note the debate that is under way in Australia as to the role of climate change in these tragic fires. The Green Party stands in support of the Government motion and of the Government\u2019s actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cee62aa4aa114f68a9101d8ec2770a9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cee62aa4aa114f68a9101d8ec2770a9f\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the ACT Party, I rise to support the motion. I join Parliament and all New Zealanders in offering our heartfelt sympathy and condolences to our brothers and sisters in Australia. What we are witnessing on our television screens and in our newspapers is hell on Earth. It is hard to imagine a graver and more serious tragedy being unleashed on our neighbours and friends. The ACT Party supports the initiative of the Government, and it supports New Zealanders from one end of this great country to the other in their pledge of support. It is terrifying to think that it appears that this hell on Earth is the work of arsonists. We can only hope that that evil is brought to book with the full force of the law, and that the arsonists get their just desserts. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u00220c3d797e9c914304af4e4ccfc44e07a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c3d797e9c914304af4e4ccfc44e07a3\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E The M\u0101ori Party joins with the House in expressing our deepest sympathies to the Australian Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, and the families and communities throughout Australia that have suffered the catastrophe of the wild fires that have ravaged Victoria. A crisis of such proportion for our neighbours is a crisis that all New Zealanders will connect to. We make that connection knowing full well that so many of our w\u2019\u0101nau have loved ones living in Melbourne\u2014children and mokopuna who may well have been placed at great risk of tragic loss of lives and homes as the merciless fire has raged on. We can only express our profound and heartfelt grief for all those families who are for ever scarred by this bushfire disaster. We support the role that this Government and this country will play in supporting Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u00226f6d2e841c22442fa9a276149c9f3a26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f6d2e841c22442fa9a276149c9f3a26\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E The Progressive Party joins parliamentary colleagues and all New Zealanders in the thoughts already expressed and in sending our sympathies to our brothers and sisters in Victoria as they deal with this blaze and the destruction it has caused. Melbourne has experienced one of the biggest, most destructive fires in recent history anywhere in the world. The destruction is not over yet, nor is the loss. When we look at the pictures of crumpled houses reduced to ashes we can only imagine the trauma suffered. When we look at scenes of exhaustion and the traumatised faces of firefighters and families we are compelled to share their grief. We send our best wishes as we imagine the rebuilding of homes and lives and communities that lie ahead. One thing we New Zealanders know about our brothers and sisters across the Tasman is that they are people of enormous courage. Victorian families will need all that Aussie dauntlessness now, and in the months ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI am proud that New Zealanders are doing their bit to pitch in and we support the Prime Minister\u2019s resolutions on this matter. I remember the heroic New Zealand firefighters who fought alongside some fantastically brave Australians in the 2006 bushfires. Some of them are going back yet again. For Australia the toll caused by the inferno is as shocking as the 9/11 tragedy in America\u2014if one compares the size of the populations. It is all the more bitter irony that the fire is blazing while floods drench north Queensland. Many homes have been lost, many lives have been lost, many lives have been shattered, and many families have lost everything. So I say to Australia and Australians that we in New Zealand wish them well in the face of this crisis with the assurance that we stand with them in any way we possibly can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022d520f3a8029344f2950f68d92f1892ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d520f3a8029344f2950f68d92f1892ff\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of United Future I support the resolution that has been moved this afternoon by the Prime Minister, and endorse the comments that others have made in this debate. Australia is enduring its worst peacetime tragedy with these fires. The loss of so many innocent lives and the destruction of property, livelihoods, experiences, and communities are things that will not be put to rest once the fires are extinguished. Life will take a very long time to return to normal for affected communities and families, and for that country as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIt is great that New Zealanders are showing their support and their encouragement for their Australian kith and kin at this time. I think that the enormity of what has happened is difficult to comprehend, but simple images convey a stark story\u2014the cars on the edge of the road where the fire overtook the victims, the houses that look like crumpled messes, and the people standing shell-shocked amongst those ruins shaking their heads and saying they have lost everything from children to material possessions. Those images are beyond our ability to comprehend. They suggest the enormity of what has taken place, and the need for people all around Australia and this country to come together to support the Australian people in their moment of crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI support the motion and I encourage New Zealanders to be as generous with their resources as they are with their sentiments at the moment to help Australia address this awful tragedy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EHonourable members stood as a mark of respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e1185b0fdf9437a969d940bb2310f46\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f88caf0768b44c1bb7660d5eb04c73d\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Procession\u2014New Route\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022d383c764acd541b38217baf046c8bf1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d383c764acd541b38217baf046c8bf1b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: From the next sitting day I intend to make a change to the Speaker\u2019s procession. In order that this longstanding parliamentary tradition may be more accessible to the public, the procession at 2 p.m. each sitting day will move south along the Speaker\u2019s corridor from the Speaker\u2019s office into the Parliament House foyer, turn right into the lobby through the double doors, and enter the House through the visitors\u2019 door, past the Bar of the House. The Serjeant-at-Arms will take up a position at the end of the Table ready to lay the Mace on the Table, and the Speaker will take the Chair via the Government side of the Table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe new route for the Speaker\u2019s procession will take no longer than the previous one but it will be in view of the public. Members will be held back momentarily in the Parliament House foyer and at the visitors\u2019 door entrance while the procession passes, but will be able to join the tail of the procession to enter the Chamber, after the Speaker, before the doors are closed for prayers. The doors to the Ayes and Noes lobbies and the Ministers\u2019 and Speaker\u2019s doors will be closed at 2 p.m. when the Serjeant-at-Arms announces the Speaker\u2019s arrival in the House, as is the current practice. This will ensure that members do not impede the Speaker moving through the Chamber to the Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThese new arrangements for the procession will apply only at 2 p.m. each sitting day. At all other times the presiding officers will enter and leave the Chamber through the Speaker\u2019s door. For members\u2019 information, I will make a copy of this announcement available in members\u2019 bill boxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002233665b8e26b7493cbf0e2b8e23a29085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233665b8e26b7493cbf0e2b8e23a29085\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Perhaps in order to ensure the dignity of your office you will be making it clear that you will not be available for questions from the media during that procession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8449e69d2214ea586836183ed90d608\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member for that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff62035ee2154d90a025a2962f68e9b4\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002252311c0d2c5f438cb95fc7b86d5c3b41\u0022\u003EMembers of Parliament\u2014Submission to Remuneration Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u002268b3c5819b404b8ab2733aa2a63d8348\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268b3c5819b404b8ab2733aa2a63d8348\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move without notice or debate a motion on MPs\u2019 remuneration, which has been advised to all party leaders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbde41cefdbc48889d702efe25cd8185\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274210bc0decf42f7a30cda88f74ebecc\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the members of this House, recognising that in the current economic situation Government revenue is reduced, many New Zealanders are losing their jobs or overtime, and more Government spending is required to invest in job creation and income support, agree to support a cross-party submission to the Remuneration Authority asking it to refrain from raising MPs\u2019 salaries during the 2009 review and commit to revisiting this issue in 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cbf7234e590a467a80f5d7dd419f1f94\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea8be7499745407d944ef0dae70f4cea\u0022\u003EBills\u2014Availability\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00224d001335fb2f4b74b73a43b5e3eae5c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d001335fb2f4b74b73a43b5e3eae5c8\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your assistance and support, really. It has been indicated to us that a number of important bills are coming up for debate very shortly, and I am becoming a bit concerned that members are getting into the habit of having to debate and vote on legislation before we have had a chance to properly digest it. I am seeking your support, and am asking you to put some pressure on the Leader of the House to provide bills to us earlier than half an hour before we have to debate and vote on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00229dae4c45b6f347da9d8b94ce711bd6d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dae4c45b6f347da9d8b94ce711bd6d0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept the concern expressed by the honourable member. There may be a chance to discuss that issue at the Business Committee today. I am aware that the Government recognises the concern of the member, and I think steps will be taken to try to make sure that bills are available a little sooner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022269be4265d8d43308bf1f51da7381a23\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022025175d6ddce403d9ec6970ebe6c44d9\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002227dd137895a0473b86996f756c8500b9\u0022\u003ERecession\u2014Government Actions for Economic Growth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f421685948614dc597f4dc864ff718aa\u0022\u003E1. NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: What steps has the Government recently taken to help ease the sharpest impacts of the current recession and prepare New Zealand\u2019s economy for future growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022757138b219044b889fcf7b14572417e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022757138b219044b889fcf7b14572417e2\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has taken a number of steps, including introducing legislation that will ensure there are tax reductions from 1 April this year that will provide much stimulus and support to those in great need. We have introduced the ReStart package to ensure that we can provide extra support to those hard hit by redundancy. We have announced the first phase of the Government\u2019s reforms to simplify and streamline the Resource Management Act. We announced last week a group of initiatives in the form of the small-business relief package, which will help lighten the load of small and medium enterprises. And we have only just begun. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207bf6864c38a4629825786c8f5b56866\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government planning to announce any further measures in the near future? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ca62ebcd7c14f39ab42e2ca0151fba9\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Tomorrow I will be announcing the Government\u2019s plans to bring forward a number of infrastructure projects and to start a number of brand new ones. They are in the areas of State highways, school property, and State housing. They are projects that will be ready to start and get under way as soon as possible. In addition, on 27 February I will be hosting the Job Summit, which will bring together the private sector, local government, non-governmental organisations, and public sector participants to discuss how we can ensure that people are kept in employment. Those are, simply, some of the announcements we are making in February, but, of course, we may announce more soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dab3ce17df34f0e85dd0c7ff1aa2d07\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that by far the largest part of the so-called stimulus package actually was in Labour\u2019s 2008 Budget, where tax cuts totalling nearly $11 billion were legislated for; that the bulk of his tax bill being introduced actually already is in Labour\u2019s 2008 tax bill; and that most, if not all, of the projects that he will announce tomorrow have already received approval, are in the pipeline, and are ready to go, as a result of the last Government\u2019s actions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220051884d90d7409b9c8834eed07a8db1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable Prime Minister may answer one of those questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1c92abb37944c92bf82063aafb9a6b4\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. What I can confirm is that this Government has taken about 100 or so days to start cutting taxes, whereas Mr Goff\u2019s Government took 9 years to cut taxes. What I can confirm is that our package for small and medium enterprises, which includes some of the initiatives that the previous Government had considered, is actually seven times larger than the initiatives proposed by his Government. What I can confirm is that in the 2009-10 period, which his Government\u2019s tax cuts had nothing to do with, the effect of our stimulus package is negative 4.4 percent, relative to negative 2.9 percent, in terms of cash deficits. The New Zealand public is rightfully looking towards our Government to ensure they get through this economic recession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c752e7fc9ce42be988f75317e05407c\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen any reports about the level of fiscal stimulus in New Zealand compared with other OECD countries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c51525f05aeb4860a51ba3afa651c297\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have seen a report on fiscal stimulus across the period 2007-10 in all OECD countries. That report shows New Zealand having the third-highest fiscal stimulus in the OECD. This level of fiscal stimulus is an appropriate response to the circumstances facing New Zealand. However, I would warn members who are calling for more that overdoing fiscal stimulus would mean our running very large deficits and building up levels of Government debt that would be a huge burden not just on this generation but on future generations. Maybe Mr Goff could give that some consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022250eee6ce7a344b59ee3b2ba22715cdc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that three-quarters of that stimulus package that he is now bragging about is a result of Labour Government actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b379dd11ea4d43bbf3368592e272da\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm is that it took 9 years and an impending electoral defeat for the member\u2019s Government finally to decide to cut taxes. The reason Labour did not cut taxes was not that it could not afford to do so; the only reason was that the then Minister of Finance, Dr Michael Cullen, had absolutely no interest in cutting taxes. That was why New Zealanders had to wait 9 years for a change of Government in order to have any confidence that their taxes would come down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249f1726e245049e5bf092be4f4ab7b01\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was a very straightforward question. It required a yes or no answer. I was unable to tell from the burble from the Prime Minister whether the answer was yes or no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce7c786900994630aca7fcdba7e2e1d2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I listened very carefully to the answer from the Prime Minister, and I believe he did address the question. He did refer to measures in respect of fiscal stimulus taken by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022364dbf6837514f9c907e863b82a6b169\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: As the Prime Minister in his answer quoted OECD figures for the years 2007 and 2008 in terms of fiscal stimulus, could he confirm that National was not in Government in those years; and, secondly, if the aim of the business tax package was to help ease the effects of recession and prepare for growth, why did it not mention in any way, shape, or form the words \u201Cagriculture\u201D or \u201Cprimary industry\u201D, given that primary industry earns 65 percent of our overseas exchange earnings, and why did the word \u201Cexports\u201D not come into that package or into any statement that the Government has made since it was elected?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873fe346c73d4bb0930f078a0662eb7c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the Prime Minister may answer one of those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297f1a23f84ce45e2b5fda4de1638a09b\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that National was not in Government in the 2007-08 period, except for the end of 2008. But I am surprised that the member, who used to be the Minister of Agriculture, does not realise that many farms up and down the country are small to medium enterprises, and that many exporters are, as well. No wonder the agricultural sector was so pleased to see the back of him!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022653279a697194f07a86ae92ae278c52b\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen the proposal from the United Nations Secretary-General, Ban Ki-moon, for a \u201CGreen New Deal\u201D, which would address both the global economic crisis and the global climate crisis at the same time; and which elements of the \u201CGreen New Deal\u201D will be incorporated in his economic package when it is released?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220abcfedeb2994d37afbcd78f09775870\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen it, and when we announce the projects the member will be pleased to see that some of them address issues not only of energy efficiency but of insulation and climate change. I think he will be pleased when he sees the final package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220915064467d144bfa6230a9722bbfe37\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Will his Government be following in the steps of the US President, Barack Obama, who is not only addressing elements of a \u201CGreen New Deal\u201D but also talking about creating 5 million new and innovative jobs in green-collar industries that will actually save the climate and produce good economic results; will the Prime Minister be following in the steps of Barack Obama, and what elements of his economic package will be along the lines of creating green-collar jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022393573c4881d406aa163e1e3b8adc8c6\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have long since learnt that it is dangerous territory to start likening oneself to Barack Obama, but I can assure the member that we will be creating jobs in our economy, and those jobs not only will have consideration for economic growth and for providing good wages for those who are in them but also will have an eye to ensuring that environmental responsibility is taken seriously by our Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db5b911f9a5742e6adde8fb2679465f6\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister concerned about building up excessive levels of Government debt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273c028535fe4430bb9fb33a3b6ea2c6a\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am very concerned about New Zealand\u2019s future debt levels. In the short term, the prospect of excessive levels of Government debt could well bring about a downgrade from credit agencies. Members will be aware that Standard and Poor\u2019s recently gave New Zealand a negative outlook. A downgrade would lead to New Zealanders paying higher interest rates, and would risk our having lower growth rates into the future. I remind the Leader of the Opposition that if he wants to make promises about doing more and spending more, he should know that the money can come only from debt, given our current cash deficit. Maybe he should show some restraint. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277ef4c93aead4f3bb39a0b0a447a8bc5\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a media release about the award given to me by Federated Farmers for being the only leader in the last election to emphasise the importance of the role of agriculture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022014217560c134ce3b308ffff6da056e7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought to table an award. I remind the honourable member that it must be tabled before the end of the day. Is there any objection to that course of action? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ad52b2e95a04208a68c21e333ede52a\u0022\u003EMinisters\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222779434e25754562b40c6d98236ee137\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in all his Ministers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022aabdf1f4b7a347489e87040b883085a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aabdf1f4b7a347489e87040b883085a8\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, because they are talented people who are working hard for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee9dc4eff0e84323946d616f27a4b8ad\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister\u2014or the country\u2014have any confidence in the transparency and honesty of the Minister of Finance, who, while ramming through legislation before Christmas without subjecting it to the scrutiny of a select committee, deliberately suppressed and withheld from the public and parliamentarians the advice he received from his own ministry that the fundamental parts of that legislation were deeply flawed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6b60d74701d48bbb3832a964b041bf2\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have complete confidence in the Minister of Finance. If we want to have concerns about Ministers of Finance, maybe we should have concern for a former Minister of Finance, who may well find himself in breach of the Public Finance Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220877af36905342a880b76056cae1eb08\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why was the National Government so frightened of releasing the briefing to Bill English at the same time as it released other briefings; and, now that the briefing has been found to reveal that the legislation the National Government pushed through was fundamentally flawed, will the Prime Minister admit that he was wrong and change that legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef88a883e81e49c48e7cf57baeef6f5c\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: We are far from frightened. I remind the member that when he was last in Government his Minister of Finance, the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, described a briefing from Treasury as an \u201Cideological burp\u201D. But let us put that all to one side. I refer the member to the Wall Street Journal Asia, in which a very interesting editorial appeared just last week commending New Zealand for its economic packages, in contrast with many countries around Asia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eba3353467ad47fb998eab9014acaa2e\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Prime Minister or his office directly or indirectly involved in the decision to not make available the Treasury briefings, when they were relevant to the debate before the House; if so, how does that reflect on the Prime Minister\u2019s supposed commitment to openness and transparency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b3d9e1db4f643d2b0adc4cc970f7388\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I was not personally involved. It may come as a shock to that member but I have such confidence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d13ed7974f164586a38d35a4f3d78601\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked whether he or his office was involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265ac298408494b1ebc7e3ed34e8ba35e\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I was not involved and, to the best of my knowledge, my office was not involved. It may come as a great surprise to the member but I have such confidence in my Minister of Finance that he can choose to release his briefing from Treasury whenever he likes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aedd2b2cf3db46b699572a2bdb16e62f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister categorically assure the House that National is not concealing Treasury advice or other departmental advice against any of the legislation now being introduced in the House today under urgency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022137d94f2e89e41e6826a52c239438e2b\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can confirm that the Government is not concealing any briefings or hiding anything from the House. If the member wants to talk about concealing things, maybe he should go and ask people in his own research unit about that, because the last time I saw them they were concealing the booze from the parliamentary Christmas party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f20eeaf845f54fcb91ffb15eef00c0f0\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259dac43cb6d94f7a847c646052c082aa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is taking a point of order, and the ministerial benches know that points of order are heard in silence. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022732790191ed94d47988cf812c4559d83\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I point out to you that the Prime Minister has categorically assured the House that the Government is not withholding anything. In fact, it has not even released anything, so how can he give\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228659144baec34d599be74268122c6651\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable member may like to reflect on how that matter was a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281259e37ac714f5cb23ff08ce41ddd61\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: There is a clause in the Standing Orders that states that a Minister cannot mislead the House. The Prime Minister has categorically assured the House that Treasury advice or other departmental advice was not withheld\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022257bc1b08d0c4c388910cedd9a9c48d0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will take his seat. The member has been in this House as long as I have. He knows there are ways of dealing with issues if he is concerned about anyone misleading the House, and it is not by way of a point of order. The honourable member knows that well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220745d7c52caf418692f6259c03edd562\u0022\u003EPrisoner Housing\u2014Prefabricated Units\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75dfd9f29ba4e80a3882a47a810cf48\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: What cost savings can be achieved through building prefabricated modular units to house prisoners, and when can we expect to see the first prefabricated prison in place and occupied by criminals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00225a00b6220d174a999407a1204a47395a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a00b6220d174a999407a1204a47395a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Corrections: I am advised that the use of prefabricated modular units is one of a number of options being considered to accommodate prisoners. The Department of Corrections expects that modular units will cost approximately half of the $643,000 per bed that it cost when the previous Government built its four new prisons. If that option is agreed to, the department expects the first modular unit to be occupied by prisoners in, or around, September 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d868e6cf45b74a2ea325563fe42fc318\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the prefab prison\u2014when it is built\u2014will not have underfloor heating, plasma televisions in every cell, and expensive gymnasium facilities, and that criminals in those facilities will be required to work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4415ca758ee49769a4ede7e0a8c5ea4\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: I can advise that there will be no underfloor heating or plasma televisions in a new prison. Inmates will have appropriate exercise facilities, rather than the type of gymnasium I saw at one of the new prisons built by the previous Government. It seemed flash enough to charge a joining fee and for yearly membership. As for work in prisons, the Government has pledged to boost by 1,000 the number of prisoners who will be learning industry-based skills through the department\u2019s inmate employment scheme, by 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dce802a66314cb3ace4773fdfbefa63\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister assure the House that those prefabricated modular units will provide at least the same level of security as is provided by current prison facilities; and, further, given that the current lifespan of prisons is over a hundred years, will the modular units provide a similar level of durability, so that the taxpayer does not end up paying twice: once for those units, and a second time for more substantial replacements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6a82ecc367a463c9b86e105f39115bb\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is confident that the new measures introduced by this Government will meet many of the standards that we would expect from our prison system, including the matters raised by the member opposite. I tell the House that we will act on measures to keep our prison system safe. This Government will not take 9 years to introduce a corrections amendment bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cdaaab717d241e3874d048161176704\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any other feedback on the cost savings from building prefabricated modular units?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f33e2dc4d034560bd05d0d705e7bd3e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The Leader of the Opposition has criticised the Government\u2019s plan to save taxpayer dollars, stating that \u201CIf you are short-sighted enough to build something cheap and nasty you will be rebuilding before very long.\u201D, and \u201CWhen you are building a public institution, you build it to make it last.\u201D That is a surprising claim, when the four prisons built under Labour, where costs blew out by half a billion dollars, have already racked up $9 million in repair bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002298267bcd64144fdc8b45786ab312d1d4\u0022\u003EUnemployment\u2014Current and Projected Rates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022293caa39a9004b09a851f1be26595c2a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What reports, if any, has she received on current and projected unemployment rates in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022230c354214c8471c99a8e35c650c71af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022230c354214c8471c99a8e35c650c71af\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I have received a number of reports on unemployment. The latest official figures show the unemployment rate at 4.6 percent, responding to the economic downturn. I have seen reports on how the unemployment rate will rise, with predictions ranging from 4.4 percent to an extreme of 14 percent, and many numbers in between. There is no doubt that the rate will continue to rise, due to the economic storm buffeting the world. This Government\u2019s focus is to blunt the sharp edges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c17403a6ed34491ace9b8938f3d2e80\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Minister invited to the hastily arranged Cabinet summit in mid-January to discuss jobs, knowing that the 170,000 people predicted by Treasury to be unemployed over the next 3 years will be her portfolio responsibility; if so, why did she not attend?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022290d480cbcad4505afe2fb2cf4123a8e\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Let me assure the member of Parliament that that was a small meeting of economic Ministers, and let me assure the member that I am meeting with my colleagues daily to talk about the impacts of this economy and the effect it is having on New Zealanders\u2019 jobs, and how we will blunt those sharp edges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228fd5665134a4921a71da0f9e2036857\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Which statement is correct: the Minister\u2019s comments on Radio New Zealand on 27 January, stating that a number of job initiatives are ready to go, or her quote in her sole press release on employment in the last 3 months, on 5 February, saying \u201Cthe Job Summit \u2026 will investigate initiatives\u201D; if the job initiatives are ready to go, when will the 105,000 unemployed people hear something other than platitudes and excuses at a talkfest in late February?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df81165decb844a0b1603491605c6ba9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: There are, of course, so many initiatives happening with this Government that it is hard even to know where to start. Unfortunately, the last Government took a head in the sand sort of approach to preparing for the downturn. In fact, in March last year the unemployment rate was at 3.7 percent, but when this Government came in it was already well over 4 percent. So in just 3 months we have seen the Government kick off a major jobs and growth plan to help New Zealand navigate through these turbulent times. On Labour\u2019s watch, the unemployment rate continued to rise for three consecutive terms\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226583f1ef7c994ebd90381e080d9dc1b0\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efe4509c0a9f43e687afc42bec6976e5\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014three consecutive quarters\u2014OK; shall we do this again? For three consecutive quarters the unemployment rate rose under that Labour Government, and we did not see a jobs and growth plan. In fact, New Zealanders will remember a promise of a mini-Budget that had no details attached to it, but they are seeing from National a clear plan forward for New Zealanders to keep their jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e19f6e11d9ca4ee2993fb296a3f3c4c3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next honourable member\u2019s question, I just remind Ministers that question time is not a time for speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b33c7057729c4a429c0cf8e38b20cbab\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to manage rising unemployment and to help ordinary New Zealanders who are struggling with the impact of the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b04c8effa5784a19ab9cf8d7ab1402ac\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This National Government has a firm jobs and growth plan in place to help ordinary Kiwis combat these tough times. We have been working with employers to squeeze the maximum jobs out of the labour market. We have been planning to keep people in work, even if that means some reduced hours. We will be making CPI adjustments for benefits and New Zealand superannuation. We have cranked up front-line services within my ministry to deal with the increased demand. The Prime Minister is holding a national jobs summit at the end of this month. We are holding regional jobs summits to come up with locally based options. We have already amended legislation to help employers and employees, with the 90-day legislation, which will be quite magnificent. Just yesterday we saw an increase in the minimum wage, under this National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e790b3c14efe41ebaef9dad2b98323ec\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that rather than sitting on its hands, as she claimed, Labour in Government reduced the unemployment rate from 7.5 percent to 3.8 percent through active labour market policies that saw 140,000 fewer people on the unemployment benefit, and if the previous Government\u2019s policies did nothing, which programmes has she cancelled since she became Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c89e130271f446f6984854079e1ed249\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is focused on accountability back to taxpayers for their money, and we are quite proudly standing up and saying that we are looking at all programmes that are being done. We are looking at best value for dollar, and we will be delivering back to families that really need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281d01c026462411bb20e3f753b4951a3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What advice did she give regarding the 50c an hour increase to the minimum wage and its impact on unemployment, and did her advice include a comparison between a Cabinet Minister\u2019s tax cut of $120 a week from 1 April and the $20 a week gross a low-income earner will receive on the minimum wage from 1 April?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225316ce8a169b4d93bc75975d28bb58b5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question was fairly wide of the primary question but I will allow the Minister to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226601a66aa1aa4c1ca27bae436adea855\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has an unrelenting focus on work, and we will be supporting New Zealanders to stay in their jobs, to keep their jobs, and to get back into jobs whenever possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9fbf422b3a6447691a280aff8f5d394\u0022\u003ESecurity Intelligence Service \u2014Files on Sitting MPs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c6aa6fcfd1a484dbf970a4718012aee\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service: How many current members of Parliament does the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service maintain personal files on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00227d4b1fa2db0a4bbbb7feb57951bd91dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d4b1fa2db0a4bbbb7feb57951bd91dc\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service):\u003C/span\u003E In accordance with longstanding practice, I decline to provide details on the work of the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service. This matter will undoubtedly be considered as part of the review that I have asked the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security to undertake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216a4258f018a4465b96440278f18ef32\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister favour the Security Intelligence Service relooking at existing personal files and, as the legislation requires, closing all of those that do not involve sabotage, subversion, espionage, or terrorism, and for a start closing my SIS file, which has been running without any ethical or legal basis for over 50 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215af9e42cc2747c79f47056a694b59e3\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The methods and information collection priorities of the SIS have altered over the years as the nature and perception of threats to security have changed. The practices of the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service that are reflected in some of the personal files are of a different era from today\u2019s. They were meticulous in detail and often included material that would not be collected today. It is my understanding that the member\u2019s file was closed in 2006 and there is not a new file.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290aa28b65c5744cf9b707c76da226b05\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister concerned that the information on my colleague\u2019s SIS file and on other recently released files shows that over the years many of the targets of SIS surveillance have been legitimate critics of Government policy; if so, what will he, as the responsible Minister, do to ensure that the service properly targets its activities at those who genuinely present a risk to New Zealand\u2019s security?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295fa2fd0c38642fd93db420181b8dd49\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is very clear and important that there should be a delineation between political activism and genuine security risks. I am concerned enough about that to have asked the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security to undertake an investigation. He has assured me that he should be able to report back within 2 to 3 weeks. I am happy to table this afternoon the letter sent to Paul Neazor, if the member wants that to be done. For the member\u2019s benefit, I can tell her that included in the terms of reference are the following: the adequacy and suitability of the service\u2019s policies relating to the creation, maintenance, and closure of files on New Zealand persons in light of the service\u2019s functions under the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service Act 1969, and the adequacy and suitability of the service\u2019s compliance with such policies in light of the matters raised in the public domain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220283b4167c484ead946a8b9597ade7b0\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister confirm that the Intelligence and Security Committee Act will be amended to ensure that the relevant committee that has oversight of the SIS is transformed into a proper select committee that includes members of all political parties represented in the forty-ninth Parliament, thereby ensuring broader accountability to the public?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a1c4634bea43f4b47498c7f13f1965\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot confirm that the committee will be widened to include all parties, but I point out to the member that there are currently five independent bodies, which are officers of Parliament that are separate from the executive, who have some responsibility for overseeing the activities of the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service. They include the Privacy Commissioner, the Chief Ombudsman, the Controller and Auditor-General, the Commissioner of Security Warrants, and the Inspector-General of Security and Intelligence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ded138d056e74724ba8c8f6af32c177e\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Will those New Zealanders who have recently received their files from the Security Intelligence Service\u2014files that show a gross abuse of their privacy\u2014be given an opportunity to make submissions to Justice Neazor, particularly in light of the broad range of his mandate, as the Minister has just expressed it; and will he recommend that perhaps the inquiry could take longer that the 2 to 3 weeks he mentioned in his previous answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e01c1794c494efda916d48f1d2a0854\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not proposing that Paul Neazor undertakes a broader consultation process. But obviously the member feels strongly about his own personal file and the collection of that file. There would be nothing to stop the member from writing to Justice Neazor, and I am sure he would take correspondence such as that into consideration in his findings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ccf0045ca2a4c7da313047cd4f156df\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the current list of members of the Intelligence and Security Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb7f470cf83d4807a05a5395bfb7c51c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. The member will table it before the end of today\u2019s sitting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c84983205c342129013c265076ad5cb\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: May I just add\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280eb19e0500445dab6b36652180f3f4d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot add to that unless he is raising another point of order. If he wishes to raise another point of order to table another document, then that is fine; the member may do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270ad38d6d85f458a92397af4c2f796d5\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I hate to cut across my colleague, but there is a slight problem with that document in that it seems to include the Rt Hon Winston Peters in the list, and I was of the understanding that he is not represented in this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022446f1a99e5a943b39b40e0968662f8cb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows that that is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264fa539b86bf45119caaab4c2d14bd37\u0022\u003EHon John Key\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the letter I wrote yesterday to the Hon Paul Neazor in relation to the terms of reference that I have asked him to look at or take into consideration in his investigation of the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224039e16b42ea4c9d94b25742d475a71d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that letter. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279b30935981946ea81a3cec79fa47419\u0022\u003ERoading and Public Transport\u2014Development of New Projects\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c83f73c0416b459091df8e81974878ee\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he support the statement in the Speech from the Throne that \u201Cof particular focus will be the development of new roading and public transport projects\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u002209ad2e216fe041f585572c10e36f69a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209ad2e216fe041f585572c10e36f69a8\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; because improving our transport infrastructure is important for the economic growth and development of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022728c9c7a7e514b17a9813a9ea59d8e9e\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister grandly announce over the summer that he was bringing forward the construction of the K\u014Dp\u016B Bridge to the 2010 financial year, when the previous Government had already announced to the Waikato regional transport committee that that would be the year it would start; and if he is so committed to the project occurring in the same year as Labour was having it built but as a new Minister felt a great need to differentiate, is it not a little hollow not to tell the Thames-Coromandel District Council at least which month in 2010 the bridge will be started?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7b879bcbc1e4b438ea26d5f729046f9\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I did indicate over the summer that there was a possibility that the K\u014Dp\u016B Bridge would be brought forward. I suggest that the member wait until the Prime Minister\u2019s announcements tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220811b2f9e4e443c8ac4f7ebcaf786ed3\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister reopen the debate on Transmission Gully when it was the preferred route of the previous Government, and continues to be the preferred route of the Wellington region; and is it not a little hollow to claim, as he tried to yesterday, that the Crown contribution was unfunded, when it has been earmarked in the Crown accounts since 2005 when the Wellington regional transport package was first announced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9a75529148c43eab808d231b43791a0\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I raised it because the previous Labour Government, which was in office for some 9 years, raised expectations regarding this route that were unfunded at the time that it left office. It suggested that $400 million would be allocated to complete the $1 billion project, but left the remaining $600 million to be funded by local bodies in the region. A regional fuel tax was talked of as a means by which that might happen; I am informed by the ministry that a Wellington regional fuel tax in the order of 13.5c per litre would be needed to fund the $600 million that the Government of the time left unfunded, so it could be described as more of a wish than a plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d5d146cb1694dcdabf4447d7e9f3b0d\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What is the forecast expenditure over the next 3 years for new and improved infrastructure for State highways, as funded through the Government policy statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d214a440a8cc46acb48bebae03293dee\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that question. I was surprised to discover that the expenditure on new and improved State highways was forecast to decrease by 9 percent over the next 3 years in the Government policy statement signed off by the previous Labour Minister of Transport. We are therefore urgently reviewing the Government policy statement so that that decrease will not happen. The Government will be increasing funding for State highway construction, not decreasing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262dae6fd54eb4f5da48b0bdcb2c1f518\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister claim that the cost of the critical Waterview Connection in Auckland had blown out to more than $3 billion, when his own report shows that the cost was actually $2 billion\u2014when like is compared with like\u2014before he started adding bells and whistles to the project in order to undermine it, and does he not think that getting his figures wrong by 50 percent makes his claim for a review sound a little hollow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e3759d60ec341bc949a4a9053512238\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The business case that the member refers to was commissioned by the previous Government and provided to the current Government. It says that the expensive tunnelling option would cost $2.77 billion for the twin two-lane option, or over $3.1 billion for the twin three-lane option. That is a massive amount of money for one 4.5-kilometre highway. It represents 1.6 percent of GDP, and there is a common theme here because Waterview was also unfunded by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002244067842431e4aacab8620a16a897257\u0022\u003ESmall and Medium Sized Enterprises\u2014Small-business Relief Package\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022883efd5686ce427097b477f987b61f4f\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What comments has the Minister seen following the Government\u2019s announcement last week to provide assistance to small and medium businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1b45ec827474404bab91a5dec356564\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1b45ec827474404bab91a5dec356564\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Many people have welcomed the Government\u2019s package, which reduces compliance costs for business and provides support for provisional taxpayers over the next few months. Among the comments I have seen are those from Claire Massey, the Director of the New Zealand Centre for Research into SMEs, who says: \u201CIt\u2019s sending a signal that, \u2018we are listening, we can help, we are thinking about what we can do to reduce the pressure points\u2019.\u201D; and another comment from one Ms Dot Kettle, Chief Executive Officer of the Nelson Tasman Chamber of Commerce, and\u2014I understand\u2014a former staffer of the former Government, stating that reducing compliance costs and providing tax relief was imperative and that the chamber welcomed the Government\u2019s good intentions in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4f033f6eea14b8e84e1b57c21db0a0e\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What further comments has the Minister seen following the Government\u2019s announcement last week to provide assistance to small and medium businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab57d77ac87f4696aece09d003e91647\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There were a range of other published comments from people representing business, but the most heartening comments have been\u2014for me\u2014from those battlers who are running small businesses who have said that at last they had a Government that was on their side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1ba706db30244ac8cbf88ca3796f049\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen the comment from Brian Gaynor in the Weekend Herald that the Australian Government\u2019s approach to the current downturn makes our response to the economic crisis look extremely cautious and conservative; the comment from John Armstrong in the same paper that the $480 million package was widely welcomed as long overdue but likely to be a drop in the bucket when the crunch comes; or the comment from the National Business Review describing it as \u201Clargely mundane\u201D, and does the Minister now agree that these measures, although positive, largely reflect Labour\u2019s pre-election announcements and incentives, and in no way reflect a sufficient response to the coming grave economic crisis? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5992f61d3be4d6bb1f192e14d28cd90\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b4a45045d10492e81b457a2877e05e1\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept the analysis that the $480 million package for 220,000 small to medium sized businesses over 4 years amounts to $10.50 a week, which would hardly buy a big packet of peanuts at the supermarket?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fe50d91f4844e378103f162f5e07af4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The package sets out what are reasonable measures that will benefit a range of businesses. Some of them are measures that the previous Government came up with, but the significant measures are related to the provisional tax requirements around the next payments in May, which will leave $250 million or one-quarter of a billion dollars in the bank accounts of businesses. That is about as far as the Government can go at the moment without heading down a path of incurring large deficits and ever-increasing debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b78e9a833c8d4230bb62fd1c2f7e3a9a\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Government\u2019s small to medium sized enterprise package fit with its jobs and growth plan for managing the economy through the recession?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022602148fa7cd9427ab837bc7f0ac4ccb1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: This package fits along with a number of initiatives designed to protect people from the sharp edge of recession but also, in the long run, to ensure that we prepare our economy for recovery. Businesses across New Zealand have told us that these are reasonable and responsible measures, and are pleased to see these measures taken alongside significant changes to the Resource Management Act, reductions in tax, and further spending on infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228970c1aa307644d5aa3da5ac10231272\u0022\u003EMinimum Wage Increase\u2014Real Income Gain\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bd8c50c8aa34da29652ab1d071aa6ff\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: What will be the gain in real income per week, adjusted for inflation since 1 April 2008, of a full-time worker on the minimum wage, as a result of the Government\u2019s decision on the 2009 minimum wage increase?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022f84a3df90a04429c830b8e010a00e911\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f84a3df90a04429c830b8e010a00e911\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The 50c increase in the minimum wage announced yesterday is intended to maintain the real income and purchasing power of people on the minimum wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022239fcfe950c146db9f2aa639a0f86dd8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Why do the figures that the Minister supplied to Cabinet include theoretical job losses in firms as a result of an increase in the minimum wage, but do not recognise jobs created as a result of the economic stimulus of such an increase?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3def2857a4e5d8945dc64f4ccf5ab\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: Protecting jobs is our priority. We believe that we have struck the right balance between protecting jobs and preserving purchasing power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bc4644c07d54a2d80988834b0225ac5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you to ask the Minister to address the question. [Interruption] Mr Speaker, is he allowed to do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d961f9bea63342c8bec4d38718252951\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable member knows he must not interject during a point of order. The member is raising a valid point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a729c83bd5d4915abd6bb164aaea55b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: There was a very clear question about the figures supplied; the member read from an answer that did not relate to the question asked, and did not come close to addressing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a7b92482ffd4918847270ca29e66b17\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister gave an answer to the question. She most certainly addressed the question. The interesting thing is that Mr Mallard alluded to some documents; he should table them, if he wants to be taken seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226444b1ea73a748adb5b95951e091d910\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I will do a slightly unusual thing here. I am going to go back to the question laid down by the Hon Trevor Mallard. It is a very clear question. I invite the Minister to answer the Hon Trevor Mallard\u2019s question given on notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee86b58f690f4737b34f43975e1f94f3\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: In making a decision on the minimum wage, consideration was given to much documentation that had been provided. The minimum wage is a balancing act, and we took all figures and information into account when making that decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b81d351f49274e4f986e9f509f705da6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister change her mind as to whether there should be increase in the minimum wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b1bd63a19674f2db958052000d22eb7\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member is assuming too much. There was significant consultation throughout the process of the minimum wage review, and the decision was made based on that consultation and based on the information received. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022202f355da7984466934cb2b34790c9f7\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You have been very clear that you want Ministers to answer questions; in fact, you have asked the Minister twice now to answer this question. The answer is a number. A number has been asked for. The question is very, very explicit, as you yourself said. On neither occasion has the Minister come up with the number that has been asked for. She has given us a bunch of words. She has not even addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0f5db73256a45d89ff27b4295efa77c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0f5db73256a45d89ff27b4295efa77c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think this is a very interesting question, and I want Ministers to take note of it. If one reads the question laid down by the Hon Trevor Mallard, one sees that it is a very clear question. The Minister had time to prepare an answer to that question. It would not take a large amount of departmental time to prepare an answer to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI note that the member asking the question did not seek my assistance when the substantive question was answered. He sought my assistance following the answer to the first supplementary question. If he had sought my assistance following the answering of the question laid down, I would have been tougher on the Minister in requiring her to answer it. But I cannot be the judge of whether the member is satisfied with an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI want to make it clear to Ministers that where a question is as clear as this question is\u2014it is probably one of the clearest questions on the Order Paper today\u2014I expect Ministers to answer it, unless they consider it not to be in the public interest to do so. We heard the honourable Prime Minister today say that to answer a particular question would not be in the public interest, and that is a perfectly legitimate answer. If a Minister decides that to answer a question is not in the public interest, I will accept that. But where a question is as clear as question No. 8 on today\u2019s Order Paper is, I think New Zealanders expect Ministers to answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EHowever, I point out again to the honourable member Trevor Mallard that he did not seek my assistance at the first answer. I think we need to leave the matter there for today, but I think I have made it very clear to Ministers that when questions are as clear as that, I think New Zealanders expect Ministers to answer them. I have made it clear now. I have intervened, and I do not expect this issue to be taken any further. I thank Dr Russel Norman for raising his point of order. I think I have made it very clear to Ministers what I as Speaker expect. Unless there are further supplementary questions, I will move on to question No. 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224367ef8d41aa46e5a0e4de051be266ad\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: On how many occasions did the Minister honour the mana-enhancing arrangement with the M\u0101ori Party and receive representations from M\u0101ori Party Ministers on the minimum wage, and how many of those were in writing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c7fa05b17f7412e889a15347c71e6fe\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The minimum wage review included extensive consultation, including consultation with other parliamentary and Cabinet colleagues, including a call for submissions. The views expressed were all given careful consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022335ad3e187bb42568fc1538a76b2b663\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have two points. First, I called for the submissions; the Minister did not. But the important point is that I did not ask about Cabinet Ministers, which the Minister referred to in her reply; I asked about M\u0101ori Party Ministers, who are not Cabinet Ministers. She did not address that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d4943b1984343edaeb889135b531425\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think I have assisted the honourable member as far as I can today in respect of answers to questions, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f16b41ae42342bba483d46d4a056c48\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. At the point when submissions were called for\u2014and I called for the submissions\u2014there were no M\u0101ori Party Ministers. They cannot be caught in that group of people that, as part of the review, was asked for submissions, because it happened in September and October of last year. This is a very specific question about a group of people who were not Ministers before the election, and are not Cabinet Ministers, which was what the Minister discussed. She did not, therefore, address that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8376909ee2949bb81a80bb7735d2392\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be aware, of course, that the Minister has no responsibility for matters that took place before the election. What I am prepared to do on this occasion is to allow the honourable member to ask a further supplementary question. I invite the member to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263a0bc5a6de546579c6015cd51356af5\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The extra question should come off the Labour Party total, because that member has been in the House for a very long time, and he would know from his 9 years of experience of dodging all sorts of questions that quite often questions are asked the answers to which are not appreciated. The Minister made it clear that in terms of the part of the process she was responsible for there was consultation on a widespread basis. That should stand as an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de24c43c008943ab8eb24326443e4ae9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard sufficient on this. I have made it clear. I have already decided to allow the member a further supplementary question, because I want to make it very clear to members, and to Ministers in particular, that where questions as clear as this one are laid down on the Order Paper, the public of New Zealand has the right to an answer. That is why I am allowing the member a further question. But I point out to the honourable member Trevor Mallard that he cannot ask the Minister about matters that took place prior to her becoming the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa47254d45604905b3fccb40b0261207\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, can I make it clear that I am not. On how many occasions did the Minister honour the mana-enhancing arrangement with the M\u0101ori Party and receive representations from M\u0101ori Party Ministers on the minimum wage, and how many of those were in writing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f288040ab3884cf681c2255f04343617\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: Extensive consultation was undertaken in relation to the minimum wage review, and I am satisfied that that consultation was sufficient for a rational, reasonable, and fair decision on the minimum wage to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e229a20c9f44465ab37a9e1df563ba50\u0022\u003EDr Jackie Blue\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any reports with regard to the minimum wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5be11e088814fd6bd2d7c680c573392\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have seen a report from Trevor Mallard hinting that the Opposition wants to raise it to $15 an hour. I have seen a report from Phil Goff demanding a raise to $13. I have also seen Labour\u2019s election manifesto, which promoted an increase to $12.65. Perhaps the Opposition members should sit down and work out who is actually in charge of their decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022389562f7b0e24b9d98a2c79f5ae76434\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: What steps will the Government introduce to meet the M\u0101ori Party call that the minimum wage be increased to $15 an hour, and when will it be achieved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022457b9b3a043d4d069c9810f87e8f0ba3\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: As with the review of the minimum wage, all economic conditions at the time are taken into account. We are informed and advised that increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour may result in the loss of up to 17,000 jobs, and our priority is job protection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a70d6ccd76f24ce5b5bb8b29085b7f38\u0022\u003EElectoral Finance Act\u2014Repeal\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df2cc33414064eecb2c87c4dc28a9966\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What steps is the Government taking before the next general election to improve the law governing campaign finance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022b943fa32376947949c0bb6d59ef98821\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b943fa32376947949c0bb6d59ef98821\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Later this week I will bring a bill to the House that seeks to repeal the Electoral Finance Act 2007. The Act will be replaced with an interim regime that largely reverts back to the previous law, except for the rules surrounding donations and a penalties structure. The Government has committed to passing this legislation in its first 100 days. It is my intention to then embark on behalf of the Government on a wide-ranging consultative series of meetings and other consultation to form a more enduring reform of electoral finance law, which will be in place for the 2011 general election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022455cb39502a1433997ef9026b9b2c3cc\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: What consultation has he undertaken on these proposals? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2952dd6e2dd40ac9bafe7be22958082\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: The repeal of the Electoral Finance Act was clearly signalled to the public as a priority for the incoming Government, and last week I wrote to the leaders or the representatives in the justice area of those parties who are not represented in the Government, to offer to meet with them to discuss this legislation. I am pleased to say that to date very many of those parties have accepted that invitation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a28149c19b1d4073ac2cc717ea509bdb\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any feedback on the Government\u2019s proposed approach to electoral finance reform? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282b6b4d4033d400cb94148a0fbc3c466\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have taken the opportunity to speak with the Leader of the Opposition, who has indicated that he is interested in engaging in the process. Incidentally, I have also read a press release by the New Zealand Public Service Association, which welcomes the Government\u2019s decision to repeal the Electoral Finance Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229224b194d0a743019a73e18da95e5b1c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We come to question No. 10. I call the Hon Lianne Dalziel. [Interruption] I beg the member\u2019s pardon. I ask members, if they are going to call, to please do so promptly following the previous question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcd5edcfdf484d6593fe865fa8ac2af1\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister propose to carry through the donation provisions in the Electoral Finance Act when most of these were introduced after public submissions, both written and oral, had closed, and the public had been denied a chance to comment on them? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8c0d6927041405fba01d52dbea77588\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Transparency is an important part of enduring electoral law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab5e4316b0ff4209bc1764f710a2419e\u0022\u003ECommunity Law Centres\u2014Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022139d28e50b0a4ed1b96b72d1094f2aef\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What reports, if any, has he received on funding for community law centres?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u002296eec139d7f142df9c3a2cf89ec45bc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296eec139d7f142df9c3a2cf89ec45bc6\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I have received two reports from the Legal Services Agency and two reports from the Ministry of Justice outlining a significant drop in funding available for community law centres. As the member will know, community law centres receive their funding from interest earned on solicitors\u2019 nominated trust accounts. Because of the cooling housing market and falling interest rates, I am advised that community law centres have been informed by the Legal Services Agency that their funding could drop by an initial assessment of up to 43.9 percent in some cases in the 2009-10 financial year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223731622f45c4e1db30180040e7814be\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree in principle with the proposal for the Government to provide alternative funding for community law centres to ensure they do not need to drastically cut services at a time when demand for those services will inevitably increase; if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220137fba802114a2e95b434ecfbb7ee3a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: I can assure the member that I am taking this matter extremely seriously. This Government is committed to access to justice for all, not just for those privileged few who can afford to access such redress as that offered by, for example, the Supreme Court. Coincidentally, the drop in community law centres\u2019 funding is roughly equivalent to the $4.3 million that was committed by the previous Government to the bronze plating of the new Supreme Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22fc91e38eb45a9a937aa06b2dc5656\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the drop in funding occurring?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c077155ff2fa4421a85914a5a4eff142\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Community law centres are funded primarily through revenue from the Lawyers and Conveyancers Special Fund. The fund consists of 60 percent of interest earned on solicitors\u2019 nominated trust accounts. As I said earlier, the recent cooling of the housing market is reducing the availability of funding. This matter requires the Government\u2019s attention, and that is what it is receiving. I can advise the House that this issue is forming part of my discussions and is part of Budget considerations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ff603dd94bb4aae80bf1718bea610ef\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the Ministry of Justice deferred its planned review of services and funding arrangements of community law centres in 2006, due to the then high level of the special fund\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220008124133374b1ca7ec93fa73c8772a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: And the previous Government did nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022911545951d554539bdba25656f07d21c\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes, it was under the previous Government\u2014and also the stability of the special fund? Circumstances have changed, and we have just heard that it is the interest generated from the special fund that is the source of the funding, so it is not unreasonable to ask the Minister when he instructed the Ministry of Justice to commence that review, in light of the report of the Legal Services Agency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c11fd57d81bd49cca506ff389d95815d\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: When this matter was brought to my attention just prior to the new Government being sworn in, it was one of the first things I raised with officials upon my taking the warrant of Minister of Justice. Since that time, as well as receiving those reports, I can advise the member that I will be meeting with the Coalition of Community Law Centres on 19 February. Kevin Campbell will be leading that delegation, as I understand it. As I said, I take this matter seriously. It will be forming part of my Budget deliberations and considerations with the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c1848433ca94c9a989364ba64680fd9\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What actions will the Government take to review the actual percentage of interest earned on solicitors\u2019 nominated trust accounts that is retained by the banks, in order to be able to support those most in need of gaining access to justice, and to enable them to continue to benefit from the services of community law centres? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2f3da1ccd1b4fbfb41ef050f3dcff6f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: I can advise the member that the very matter she raises is currently forming part of my deliberations as I work towards what I hope will be a solution that meets at least some of the expectations of most parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c8fe672abef4624b31b4f256f07560f\u0022\u003EResource Management Act\u2014Reforms\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267b20046cc74477e8ff6c4af79bee5ba\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: What progress has the Government made in meeting the confidence and supply agreement that \u201CNational and ACT agree to promote investment, jobs, wages, employment and prosperity, as well as environmental improvement, through amendments to the RMA.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8e9affd90524ae8968414643f4651db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8e9affd90524ae8968414643f4651db\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E We have made good progress with the first phase of Resource Management Act reforms. The technical advisory group was established in early December. Ministers and officials have worked over the holiday period on a package of about 162 amendments to the Resource Management Act. These were approved by Cabinet and the Government caucus. The Parliamentary Counsel Office is beavering away on the drafting of that bill as we speak, so that it can be introduced to the House at the earliest opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b1bf3da06104ba18d397e8db72c806a\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: Are there provisions in the bill that will improve New Zealand\u2019s environmental management, as well as reducing the costs, delays, and uncertainty of the Resource Management Act? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d281fc32896411ab65bfa47b10223fe\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The environment is as much a loser from the excessive bureaucracy of the Resource Management Act as our economy, because if it takes for ever to fix water, transport, and such other infrastructure, it comes at a considerable cost to the environment. The bill will also have specific provisions that help the environment. There will be tougher fines for those who breach consents, and the powers of the court to be able to change the conditions of consents will bring about environmental benefits. The bill will also include provisions to strengthen and improve national policy statements and national environment standards. A significant change requires that authorities like telecommunications companies and power companies will no longer be the decision makers on their own applications for designations. Instead, these decisions will be made independently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221352096c22a94b3a9bd637c7e572b14f\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain why neither he nor a single member of any group representing environmental concerns was able to be present at a major forum on the Resource Management Act and water issues held in Christchurch last December, when three other senior Ministers from the South Island were present; and does this highlight the lack of priority being given to protecting our environment when the Government is promoting its changes to the Resource Management Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9e5ee1b401b4113a1a8b81d2764e386\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: There was a very constructive meeting between the Minister of Finance, the Minister for Economic Development, and the Minister of Agriculture on the very important issue of water storage in Canterbury. I confess to being buried in these Resource Management Act reforms, albeit I have to say that the chair of the Canterbury Regional Council, Mr Kerry Burke\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284cbd3dcc9c144448ffbd9daac0a9342\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Sir Kerry to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed97eab048234741997650e97c3df651\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Sir Kerry Burke, a former Labour MP, has issued a press release strongly endorsing the Government\u2019s environmental reforms in respect of the Resource Management Act that is completely out of step with what Labour has had to say about those reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241f2c05bfe04aa3ac5729d8e9839770\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Government considered the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment\u2019s concerns in her report on the clean-up of the contaminated site at M\u0101pua, where the previous Government breached conditions of the consents yet the council was powerless to act under the existing Resource Management Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d839ad3ed690493399032778017223f5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. It is wrong that any private person or company can be prosecuted for breach of consents but Government agencies cannot. The amendments we propose will enable councils to issue enforcement orders, abatement notices, excessive noise directions, and prosecutions where Crown agencies breach consents. It is the view of this Government that this law needs to bind the Crown in the same way it binds private individuals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022745fbb45730d43219c9c6e999ad3d69b\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a document. It is a media report of the Christchurch Resource Management Act water forum and it details that environmental groups were deliberately excluded by Government Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289868603848c4d6991cc73b926de5c11\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9cc4e3acbcd41138d71c37ff4d207b9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it to be your convention that the tabling of documents will occur at the end of questions rather than\u2014as the member chose to do\u2014midway through them? It was the practice of the previous Speaker to require the tabling of documents to occur at the end of supplementary questions. Is it your intention to continue that practice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c27227fbff1b4829add28969fc8ed771\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable member makes a good point. Although the Standing Orders are, I think, not precise on that matter, for the courtesy of all members in the House it may be a good practice to continue\u2014that leave to table documents is sought at the end\u2014although sometimes it is difficult for members to know when the end of supplementary questions arises. Where members are seeking the call to ask a supplementary question, it is clear the end of supplementary questions has not arisen, so in the future the member could perhaps attempt to wait until it has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b9888dbbbca4f5882a6127cd3025822\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think part of the problem that arose in that case\u2014and we have had a number of examples of it already today\u2014is that the practice has grown that because you have a list in front of you, as we all know, people are often not really calling or are barely calling clearly when they stand up. Members stand up, open their mouths, and hope something happens at that point. Of course, they may simply be leaving the House at that stage. I think it would be helpful to remind members that, in fact, they are not entitled to the call unless they make the call, and you, Mr Speaker, cannot be expected to divine the intentions of people just because they stand up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b49e0214fb448f580c0b45e1228bb20\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member for a very good point of order. I would urge all members of the House to reflect on that. Members are not entitled to speak unless they are acknowledged and named by the Speaker. I cannot tell that a member is seeking the call unless he or she actually seeks the call. The honourable member has made a very good point, and if we could try to adopt that as we move ahead, I would certainly appreciate it and it would help the good order of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224727927b3c574314b21f91a57d5b420e\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Noting the very long time frames in getting approval for major roading projects like the Wellington City bypass and the Albany to P\u016Bhoi realignment B (ALPURT B) under the existing Resource Management Act, how will these reforms streamline the process so we can get on and build the infrastructure New Zealand so desperately needs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a43bd8a25b44f97bf41ef3fafa7c70d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member is absolutely right to highlight fiascos like the Wellington City bypass, which took 15 years, and ALPURT B, which took over a decade. [Interruption] I hear the Labour spokesperson on transport demanding that we build new roads, at the same time as members opposite oppose any reform of the Resource Management Act\u2014the Act that prevents us from being able to build the roads. The reforms that we will advance will provide for a new national consenting process with an environmental protection authority, and an enhanced board of inquiry that will ensure that there are tight appeals and that we get decisions in a timely way so this new Government can get on and build the infrastructure New Zealand needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc01355dea6e4d73b81011c56cbd625d\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Are there measures in this reform package to address the sort of supermarket circus we see going on in Auckland, where families are missing out on cheaper groceries because the Resource Management Act is being used as a tool to block competing supermarkets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210a8091830c5416cbd9c0a2fdff66ab2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there are very specific provisions to try to prevent the Act from being used for trade competition purposes. The changes curtail such behaviour by prohibiting objections based on the effects of trade competition, removing standing for trade competitors, and allowing damages\u2014not just legal costs\u2014where the courts find that an objection was trade motivated. We will also have provisions to deal with astroturfing. This is where business competitors create artificial grassroots organisations to oppose a development. The bill will require disclosure where trade competitors are funding community objections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ed970c2994640ca870e92be9401b812\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister noted the case in Wellington where one of the councillors lodged an Environment Court appeal under the Resource Management Act against his own council\u2019s decision; and does the Minister think this is appropriate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e27ac63a16174b549408b66aebc63bdd\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not think it is at all appropriate. Effectively, a councillor who did not win the argument around the council table is now trying to relitigate the issue in the Environment Court. It is a good example of why we need to constrain appeal rights from being used in ways for which they are not intended. The argument, to me, appears to be far more about local politics than about the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002227b24615dfc84d1f871b179677834617\u0022\u003ETourism\u2014Credit Crunch Impact\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E12. CHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour) on behalf of \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e58909db7b53476080189b411ecc1643\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E  to the Minister of Tourism: Does he agree with the statement that there need to be \u201Cshort-term steps\u201D to \u201Creduce the impact of the international credit crunch on the tourism sector so it is strongly placed to achieve growth\u201D, if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00224b8e66c7ae6840508918b6cc938fdb13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b8e66c7ae6840508918b6cc938fdb13\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I agree with the full quote, which is from the National Party\u2019s tourism policy and actually states: \u201Ctake the necessary short-term steps to secure the stability of the banking system, and reduce the impact of the international credit crunch on the tourism sector so it is strongly placed to achieve growth as markets improve.\u201D I certainly hope the member is not about to suggest that the New Zealand banking system is unstable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c87cf135ea14adf8e5257fdba65cee0\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Given that, as the Minister has acknowledged, the statement in the primary question comes from the 2008 National Party manifesto, will he undertake to the House to honour the manifesto promise that his Government will ensure a reversal in the 1 percent decline in tourist numbers experienced by New Zealand in 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220126c96706f640078b58011e77f672c3\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member can rest assured that I will do everything possible to ensure that the New Zealand banking system is stable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022744eb0677f714d82b0e23aac72ef35ea\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was not my question. I do not think the question was addressed; it certainly was not answered. The question was not about the banking system at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022395d2dcaeb7d4be4851e087c56d2fd45\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: If the Labour Party wants to doctor quotes from the National Party, it should expect the answer it got. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb8394fa66354662a2b9987c3f43bff5\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a773500c3b374d12bcd785ff82b990cc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think I have heard enough on this. I do not think the House needs to waste more time on that. The Prime Minister made a perfectly fair point. The quote was barely a full quote, so the member cannot expect much other than a political answer. I invite the member to ask his further supplementary question, should he wish to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ea0a55bd207469c8a0aa257012ca4fa\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the statement that tourism is \u201Cquite a low-value part of our economy\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c81d3278cf84b2090756aa0db622607\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The tourism industry is extremely important. That is why I chose to take it as a portfolio and why I chose not to have it a long way down the ministerial order, as the Government that the member once represented did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267617151e3e14277919dc3f2e118b0b6\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister whether he agreed with the statement and, if so, why. He did not answer that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f495adfe753643c197fd16369ec1bde7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has been around for a while now. When members ask for opinions, they know they cannot expect explicit answers. I made it very clear today that when members put down detailed questions, I will endeavour to ensure that members and the public of New Zealand get sensible answers to those questions. But where opinions are sought, members cannot expect precise answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ddfaa82365240ac93d9c44a9ec4fa15\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that it was John Key, when he was the Leader of the Opposition, who called tourism \u201Clow value\u201D and suggested that the problem was that \u201Cpeople just don\u2019t get paid enough from it\u201D; if he is aware of that, why does he not heed the former Opposition leader John Key and give the thousands of tourism workers on the minimum wage more than a measly 9c an hour increase in their wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc3a31b07e954d6684efd94368cdf67a\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is reasonably well known that one of the challenges for the tourism industry is to try to increase the yield in that industry, and that is something we are doing. It is also true that a lot of people who work in the tourism industry are paid the minimum wage. They would have been pleased yesterday to receive an increase of 50c per hour. They will also be very pleased that we are a Government that has a sense of balance and is not putting their jobs at threat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216f240007527496ebeb7aa1dc8a3bcca\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the article in Mountain Scene from February 2007 in which Mr Key said that workers in tourism just do not get paid enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1371a5365fa46debce44a2f5e93a0f2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that article. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022171c53bc01444b3099f8a209f4f43d66\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister of Tourism confirm, in a way that the Minister of Labour was unable to confirm, that in fact the real increase after the effect of inflation has taken place for workers in the tourist industry was 9c an hour, or $3.60 a week, which is not even a fraction of the block of cheese that the Prime Minister used to talk so fondly about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228304a61909954c96b99d85bb33e1642d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is a fair stretch from the question, but I am sure the Prime Minister is capable of handling it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299449488066e421592e56e4707527916\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am a bit confused. I thought I heard you agree that leave to table papers should be sought at the end of supplementary questions. We have just had a supplementary question after the honourable MP moved to table a piece of paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022305a9d44726045a7894b295a6d11fbe8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has raised a perfectly valid point. But it is not a matter of the Standing Orders; it is a matter of courtesy to members. The fact that the member sought to table a document prior to the question by the honourable Leader of the Opposition is not a matter of order; it is a matter of courtesy. My concern was that the honourable Leader of the Opposition\u2019s question was somewhat stretching the primary question, but I am sure the honourable Prime Minister can handle it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2018ee72f254545829ce352c6edde72\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There is no debate that the increase in the minimum wage is there to reflect the increase in the CPI, and, of course, in real terms it is not large. But the point here is that it represents a 4.2 percent increase. The minimum wage in Australia was reviewed on 1 October 2008; it was a 4.1 percent increase. I think that workers in New Zealand will look to this Government and say there is a sense of balance here and that it is increasing their pay to take advantage of the situation that there is an increase in the CPI. I make the point that maybe the Leader of the Opposition should go and read his own party\u2019s manifesto, because what it actually states is that, in these difficult economic times, the minimum wage should be increased either relative to the CPI or average wages. Guess what? That is what we did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c7243f668b84003936d8b93445da6ca\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister quantify that the real increase in wages that he granted yesterday to low-paid workers in the tourism industry was actually 9c an hour, or $3.60 a week\u2014yes or no?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dd79b13df4b4fdb8c4e1bad97a0ebc1\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that yesterday someone who works 40 hours a week got $20 as an increase. I can also confirm that he or she will almost certainly get a tax cut. I have made no attempt to argue otherwise than that the increase is relevant to the CPI. The member will not find any debate on that on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b7843441fd3486ea63264497331ff95\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Earlier, when the Minister of Labour was asked to quantify a sum, you said that my colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard should have raised a point of order because the Minister did not address the question in that way. You have just heard the Prime Minister do exactly the same thing. I presume that the same rule that affected Kate Wilkinson also applies to John Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b1c3712736a4174ba65f51b724db679\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252f8ea19e074446e8138ad2557ca3f3e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need to have any further contribution on that. The honourable member tests my goodwill a little. The clear difference is that the Hon Trevor Mallard put down a clear question on the Order Paper. The Minister had a significant amount of time to prepare an answer for it. In the case of the honourable member\u2019s supplementary question, it was stretching the primary question. I did not stop him from asking it, and I allowed the Prime Minister to answer it. The member then asked a further supplementary question on the basis of the Prime Minister\u2019s answer, and received a further answer to the question. I believe that there has been a fair balance in the exchange on that final question. But I repeat, for the benefit of members of the Opposition, that in relation to the Hon Trevor Mallard\u2019s question earlier on today, I think it was a valid point that where a question is so clear in the way it is put on the Order Paper, members of the public can expect an answer to be given to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220103f94541bb4b30a4363d27d915a5c9\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You appear to be setting down some reasonably stringent standards for the way in which questions are asked and answered. I ask you, at the end of proceedings today, to look at the Hansard record of the question and then, particularly as the question is about \u201Cshort-term steps\u201D to \u201Creduce the impact of the international credit crunch on the tourism sector\u201D, at how we got on to the debate about a 9c an hour increase, or whatever it might have been. I think that really does stretch the process on this question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282acaa2be54f40c3ba5acdf7a65030b1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need any further assistance on this matter. I do not want to take up further time of the House. Had the Prime Minister not wished to answer the question, he could have made it very clear that he believed the question was out of order. The Prime Minister seemed to answer it with some enthusiasm. That entitled the Leader of the Opposition to ask a further supplementary question, and I believe that is the way the House should flow, in good order. We do not need to get too precious and pedantic about these things. I repeat what I said earlier: where primary questions are laid down clearly, members of the public expect an answer. When Ministers are answering questions, they can expect that the answers they give may be further questioned by members of the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd1934a43b5c4b8581580178b244b037\u0022\u003EAddress in Reply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bfb99f50f5ea483b8bffe482fda8e50a\u0022\u003EAddress in Reply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000268\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 9 December 2008.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f264d55498804050ada9e3830fc35e2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f264d55498804050ada9e3830fc35e2d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to make a few comments today in support of the Speech from the Throne. I start off by calling the House\u2019s attention to the amendment to the Address in Reply. The amendment is in the name of the Hon Phil Goff, the current Leader of the Opposition. If people were to read the amendment, they would see that it does not state that the Opposition has no confidence in the Government. That is what Opposition parties normally do; they move an amendment to express no confidence in the Government. But Mr Goff has moved an amendment to add some words to the Address. I will not go through the words of the entire amendment, but I encourage people to read them and see whether my interpretation is correct. The amendment mentions many things that should be done, but, in effect, Mr Goff is asking the Government to fix up the mess left by the Labour Government when it left office. I ask subsequent Labour speakers whether they intend to support the confidence motion when it is voted on later in the week. Clearly, Labour members know they made an absolute pig\u2019s ear of their last few years in Government, and this nice piece of prose on the front page of today\u2019s Order Paper shows that it would like to see the National Government kindly fix that up. Indeed, that is our intention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt is about 84 days since the National Government came to office, and those 84 days have seen a record of achievement, very much focused on the prosperity and well-being of New Zealanders. We have come into Government at a very difficult economic time. The whole world is experiencing difficulty, and everybody knows a great deal about those difficulties. But we have decided not to sit behind a cloud of doom. We have been very, very proactive in getting out there and making sure we do what is necessary and what is possible to ensure that New Zealanders are able to weather this difficult time as well as possible. I want to talk about a number of the things we have done. We have introduced a stimulus package for the economy, worth more than $9 billion, over the next 3 years. That is one of the biggest packages provided by any Government, anywhere in the world. It is designed to ensure that New Zealanders are, as much as possible, insulated from the worst effects of these economic downturns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe first aspect that will be most notable to New Zealanders who are fortunate enough to still be in work, is the assurance of a support package for those who might be out of work on a temporary basis. From April this year there will be a tax cut. There will be another one in 2010, and another one in 2011. That will see more of the dollars that New Zealanders earn in their jobs every day, stay in their pockets and it will give them a great deal more choice. It is notable, too, that even though the Government has introduced this big fiscal stimulus package, interest rates have fallen and that will be making things a little easier for some households. It will also make things a little easier for some of our businesses. In this environment we have also seen a slight drop in our exchange rate, and although we do not want to see an unnecessary reduction in the purchasing power that New Zealanders have with their hard-earned dollars, it does help our exporters and we encourage that. The export receipts that we have seen so far are looking very, very good, considering the circumstances. We know that fluctuations in the dollar are not good but this is a time of tough trading, and we are encouraged that our exporters are doing what they can to get out into markets and are adapting very, very quickly to those difficult circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ELast Wednesday the Prime Minister unveiled a package of measures for small to medium enterprises in New Zealand, and it was interesting to note that although, on the one hand, it was very much welcomed by people who understand what it is like to be in business\u2014to worry about paying the wages, about staying inside the overdraft, about paying their suppliers\u2014on the other hand, those commentators who largely have never had anything to do with a small to medium enterprise, were typically critical. This is a package of measures designed to assist the cash flow of small to medium enterprises, and anyone knows that cash flow is the arterial blood of those businesses and needs to be protected. That package focuses on cash flow. It has 11 different tax changes in it, and the cost of those will be some $480 million over the next 3 years. The interesting thing is that most of that cost was met by compliance. There was an unproductive amount of money being sucked out of businesses and we have said it is better placed back in the tills of those in business, and back in their bank accounts, where they can use it for the betterment of their business. The package sees a reduction in the amount of form-filling that is necessary: the easing of provisional tax returns and the calculations that go around those. That is the bread and butter that we need to put on the table to help small business and this Government has done that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat is more, we note that a lot of those small-business operators are pretty much out there on their own. They might employ five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, or even 12 people, but, by and large, they carry the can themselves. They cannot always go to their bank manager to talk about their difficulties. They cannot always go to their accountant to talk about their difficulties. They cannot always talk to their workforce about what they might want to do inside the business. So we have expanded the mentoring service, and we have expanded the business health check service. Those people are able to ring up and get hold of someone who will understand what their position is and who will want to help them get through the worst of these times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWe are not only doing things to help small business, we are not only doing things to ensure that New Zealanders adversely affected by job loss are supported, but we are also embarking on a very large infrastructure plan for New Zealand. The Prime Minister will be announcing the key elements of that plan in a speech tomorrow. But what should be remembered is that this country has a significant deficit of infrastructure. There has been a poor spend in that area for quite some time, and it is infrastructure that is the enabling aspect of business in this country. Not only does it help our quality of life but it also oils the wheels of the economy. The important thing is that this programme will see jobs created, it will see jobs stay in place, and it will see wages at least stabilise, if not grow, over the next few years. Most important, it will leave New Zealand in a position where, once the recovery comes\u2014and it will come, and it will come for us much more quickly than for many other jurisdictions\u2014we can take advantage of that, and see our economy grow once again at the sorts of levels that we would like, levels that will see the incomes of New Zealanders significantly rise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ENot only have we taken care of those economic matters that are very early on and very embryonic in the stage of life of this Government but we have also dealt with some of the social excesses that the last Government became so unpopular for. It was known for telling New Zealanders what they could do, when they could do it, and how they could do it. So we have in fact said to New Zealanders that they can choose the sort of light bulbs they want to put into their lights. We have said to New Zealanders that we are getting rid of the so-called food police out of school canteens. We have also said that many of those people who decide to go down to the gym and want to leave their kids in a little bit of care, will be able to, after we have dealt with those regulations very, very shortly. This has been 84 days of activity entirely focused on the betterment of New Zealanders\u201484 days focused on doing what a Government needs to do, to ensure that New Zealanders survive and prosper in difficult times. It is a privilege to be part of this. All of us who are in Government recognise and respect the fact that New Zealanders have great expectations of us; the first 84 days most certainly indicate that we are up to that challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022a671d1e0147046b0b6e89d72ec8c55a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a671d1e0147046b0b6e89d72ec8c55a4\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That contribution was from the Hon Gerry Brownlee, the Minister of Energy and Resources, who appears to have summered well. I would like to say to Mr Brownlee: \u201CPlease, please, do not attempt any more jawboning of petrol companies.\u201D, because since the member told them to put their prices down, the prices have gone up every week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b69ec0018fc48f1813f9af62e7cd274\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing that oil companies put prices down 3c today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022013715d5ae2a46288c786a81bddce962\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eb5911d36db410e87f302c51cdced95\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Can he also please stop telling electricity companies to keep their prices down, because those prices have gone up, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EOn 1 April this year the chief executive officer of Telecom will receive a $500 - plus-a-week tax cut. On 1 April a home-care worker looking after a sick and disabled person will receive a $12-a-week tax cut. The chief executive officer of Telecom earns $1.75 million a year, plus that amount again in incentive bonuses, cars, and so on; the home-care worker earns $26,000 a year, and uses his or her own car and petrol to provide the service. That worker will get $3.60 net a week in an increase in the minimum wage. On 1 April this year a pensioner will get less in his or her pension per week than the chief executive officer of Telecom will get in a tax cut. On 1 April this year a couple with two kids on a joint income of $48,000 will get $18 a week in a tax cut; the Prime Minister, John Key, will get $183 a week in a tax cut. So when it comes to real messages to New Zealand about the seriousness of the world economic situation, I have to say that I think that Fran O\u2019Sullivan in the New Zealand Herald got it about right when she said that John Key should postpone the upcoming tax cuts on 1 April, and instead redirect the already budgeted funds to provide a fillip to our most cash-strapped consumers. I agree with her, and I say to John Key: \u201CDon\u2019t lecture low-income New Zealanders on the need to keep their wages as low as possible.\u201D, as he did when he announced the rise in the minimum wage, while refusing to turn down the $183-a-week tax cut that he will get on 1 April. I say to Mr English: \u201CDon\u2019t lecture wage earners to keep their wages low when you are going to take $120 a week in a tax cut.\u201D Where is the moral high ground in that? It makes a mockery of the freeze on MPs\u2019 salaries that we have talked about in this House today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhat we are seeing is the real meaning of a fair society under a National Government. This is how it looks after the vulnerable. This is how it looks after the underclass, when it tries to keep those people out of poverty. This is that Government\u2019s response to the economic crisis that we are facing as Kiwis, the like of which we have never seen before. The poorest in our society will carry the biggest load; they will be the victims of this depression. It will be low-income earners, it will be those who lose their jobs, and it will be those who care for families, for the sick, and for the disabled. It will be those who are on a fixed income and who are too old to work any more. If this Government truly cares for the people of New Zealand, as it claims to do, these are the people it should be taking care of. But, you see, the last 80 days of the 100 days of action promised by John Key have been about a long hot summer holiday. They have been about the surf, the sun, the seashore, and a fair bit of political posturing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EBefore Christmas the National Government rammed legislation through this House under urgency, without select committee scrutiny or any public input, and that has raised many concerns from commentators around New Zealand. They are saying that if the National Government, which was going to be so open, so transparent, and so consultative, starts its term of office like this, then that does not bode well for the next 2 years. I have to ask whether it was absolutely crucial that workers starting a new job now should have their rights removed for their first 90 days of employment. Was it absolutely crucial to do that before Christmas? Was it extraordinarily urgent for bail laws to be changed before Christmas, while legislation cracking down on gangs was ignored? Was it imperative that education standards that already existed had to be put into legislation and passed before Christmas, when legislation to address family violence was only talked about? You see, that is what I call political posturing. The legislation passed before Christmas did not make a blind bit of difference, and it did not make New Zealand a better place over the Christmas holidays. Did the man who was charged with violently beating up a small child over Christmas get bail? Yes, he did. Did the changes in education standards matter during the 6 to 8 weeks of the school holidays when nobody was at school? No, they did not. Did the murderers of Nia Glassie get longer sentences? No, they did not. What this Government should have been putting first, second, and third was this country\u2019s response to the economic crisis that we face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EYou see, National is failing New Zealanders by not treating the economic problems we have, and the looming problems we have, with any urgency, at all. I believe that we are living in a fool\u2019s paradise. I hear it every day; people say \u201CNew Zealand will be OK. She\u2019ll be right. It won\u2019t happen here. Our businesses are different.\u201D Why do we think that the whole world is facing an unprecedented crisis but New Zealand is immune? And that view, I have to say, is being fostered by the drip-feed, \u201Cno worries, mate\u201D approach from the Government. It is fostering this complacency in New Zealand because it has not put any urgency into addressing this problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E First of all, it has been a long summer holiday and Anne Tolley proudly proclaimed that she was Prime Minister for 1 week of it. Goodness me! Thank goodness the banks in New Zealand did not know that. Then there was the hastily called so-called Cabinet summit. Five Cabinet Ministers, without the Minister for Social Development and Employment, huddled around a table in a hastily called summit and said: \u201CWhat will we do? What will we say? John\u2019s just got back from Hawaii, and people are saying we\u2019re doing nothing.\u201D They called a meeting of five people a Cabinet summit. As my colleague Clayton Cosgrove said, what do they call a full Cabinet meeting? Is it a Nuremberg rally? Cabinet meetings of Ministers are held every day of the week, but what was interesting is that the Minister for Social Development and Employment herself was not even invited. That is how important National believes unemployment is in New Zealand. She did not even get the phone call or the invitation. Today in the House she blustered and flustered and said that the Government is doing lots. But did those Ministers invite her to sit around the Cabinet summit? No, they did not. She is not a player in the game. In fact, who is playing this game? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has seen nothing from this Government so far. The Minister for Social Development and Employment has managed one press release on employment matters in the 3 months that she has been Minister. It is 3 months today. There has been one press release in 3 months, such is her concern about unemployed people in New Zealand. I ask the Government: why do we have to wait for a talkfest before we get some action out of it? After all, the Government does not believe in talkfests. It cancelled the talkfest for doctors and nurses. It cancelled a little conference that the Families Commission was going to hold. But the Government is going to hold a talkfest at the end of February. Nobody knows the cost. It will do nothing, and the Government has done nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b113654311504b4f9c7217d10b16259c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b113654311504b4f9c7217d10b16259c\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E That was a most interesting speech from the temporary deputy leader of the Labour Party, Annette King. She failed to remind Parliament that she and Mr Goff were members of a Government that voted in 1987 to give Cabinet Ministers a tax reduction of $500 a week. Annette King voted to give herself a $500 tax cut in 1987\u2014that is what she voted for, for herself\u2014but she does not want to tell that to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWe are seeing the sad remnants of a once successful Government, and those Labour members do not know where they are going. The National Government has been working hard on the issues that matter. The Labour Party has been busy issuing press releases from the cafes of Western Europe berating the new Government. Do members recall Mr Goff\u2019s press release from early January saying that the Government should be on the job, doing the business? Phil Goff said that from Adelaide, South Australia. Then, the next day, Helen Clark issued a press release saying: \u201CThe Government\u2019s not on the job.\u201D She was speaking from a European ski field. What we have at the moment from the deputy leader of the Labour Party, Annette King, is yet more of the ridiculous cant and slogans that sustained Labour members in Government for a few years, and she is now trying to get away with it in Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is facing serious economic challenges. Fortunately, we now have a Government that is up to those challenges and is providing the leadership that New Zealand needs. As our Prime Minister told the House today, New Zealand has the third-largest economic stimulus package in the Western World, and that package is made up of tax cuts for hard-working New Zealanders, to give them every incentive to get ahead and to keep the money that they are earning at a time when they need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe Government has also announced a raft of measures to assist small and medium enterprises to weather the economic storms that are coming. One of those changes includes, in my own portfolio of State services, a requirement for Government departments to pay their bills on time, if not early, in order to assist the cash flow of small business. The Prime Minister also announced today that tomorrow there will be more announcements on infrastructure investment in New Zealand, spanning not only State housing but roading and other projects that will be of interest to New Zealanders. On top of that, this Government has a very strong focus on improving front-line services for New Zealanders. The response has been swift and clear. There are tax cuts, a business package for small and medium sized enterprises, investments in infrastructure, and a Government commitment to focusing on front-line services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThere are very difficult times ahead for this country, and it is fortunate that we have a Prime Minister and a Minister of Finance who say that this is a problem that requires sensible, long-term solutions in order to assist New Zealand in the way forward. I think that is very important. I do not think New Zealanders should listen to the failed deputy leader of the Labour Party when she talks, as she does, about an agenda that is not relevant to ordinary New Zealanders. Ordinary New Zealanders are worried about the future. They are worried about their hospitals, they are worried about their schools, and they are pleased that they have a Government that will deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EIf we look at the problems that we have inherited in the New Zealand public health system, we realise that the previous Government should hang its head in shame. Not only have we inherited a massively worsening financial situation in our district health boards but we have deficits growing by the day. The previous Government said that hospitals would record deficits of $110 million. We now know that it is probably much closer to $160 million\u2014a 50 percent increase on what it told the country\u2014and that is indeed very serious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EBut there is good news in the way that this Government is dealing with the health portfolio. Firstly, we have secured the additional $750 million put aside for Vote Health, despite the deteriorating financial conditions. Our health service is in a privileged position in that we have that money coming forward, and it is our responsibility to make sure that it is spent in the best and most effective way in order to help New Zealanders with their front-line services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003ESecondly, we have appointed a high-powered ministerial group, which has been established with some of New Zealand\u2019s best health and financial people, that is aiming to assist the Government in its agenda of expanding the role of clinical leadership in the New Zealand public health system and giving a much greater say to doctors and nurses in the running of the New Zealand public health service, and also in the role that they can play in assisting us to provide better, quicker, and more convenient care for New Zealanders. The ministerial group is also looking at areas of poor-quality spending on the bureaucracy that can be moved into providing additional front-line services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWe have put a cap on the health bureaucracy, and we have delivered on our pre-election commitments in order to ensure that publicly funded Herceptin is available to the women of New Zealand. As recently as last week I met with the chief executives from the three Auckland district health boards, and we are rapidly commencing progress on building Auckland\u2019s first elective surgery super-theatre complex to help the Government address the shortfall in elective surgery around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWe have inherited an incredible number of vulnerable health services. Yesterday I met with representatives from the Royal New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. I was alerted by them to the large number of rural and regional hospital services that are vulnerable because of the staffing crisis that the previous Government ignored. This Government is determined to deal with those issues in order to make sure that we have an opportunity to ensure that New Zealand\u2019s public health services are maintained and improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s focus on improving front-line services is also a part of the important work that other Ministers have been doing. The Minister of Education, Anne Tolley, in setting that cracking pace in bringing in legislated national standards in schools, is providing the leadership that New Zealand parents are looking for. The Minister wants to ensure that we do have those national standards in our schools, and doing this will send a strong message to the education sector and to parents that the Government gives strong priority to that policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E The Government has also moved rapidly to advance its agenda in the law and order area. It has made changes to legislation brought before the previous Parliament, and those changes will be made in the next few weeks as we advance through the rest of our legislative programme. These are things that matter to New Zealanders, and they are the priorities of the new Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40630a9599a43b683bfa6040fe00bed\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Thank goodness!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec23edc5c507403fa680b2b4067b698b\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank goodness, because the previous Government had lost its way and its focus. In fact, it was so fixated on winning the election that there were all sorts of things that it did not tell New Zealanders about. We already know that there were burgeoning deficits in the health system that the previous Government did not talk about. We know about the huge number of vulnerable services and workforce shortages that the previous Government did not want to talk about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EAs Mrs Wong has said, the previous Government did not want to talk about the billion-dollar Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) liability that it kept covered up and did not tell New Zealanders about. We know that there is an investigation into how the Public Service and the previous Government dealt with that knowledge about the ACC liability, and I think New Zealanders will be interested to see how the Public Finance Act was respected\u2014or not\u2014in the way that that was dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EI am proud to stand up in this House and support what the Prime Minister has been saying. I think he is providing New Zealanders with the leadership that they need at this difficult time. As Ms Bennett so appropriately said during question time today, the Government cannot turn away the storm clouds of the economic crisis that are travelling towards our country and washing over our shores. However, we can certainly blunt some of the worst impacts of that crisis for New Zealanders and their families. That is part of the package that the Government has been working on and will continue to deliver for New Zealanders and their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe54b172b0324ad582276374e7dbfd9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe54b172b0324ad582276374e7dbfd9d\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E That was very interesting. The first speaker this afternoon, Gerry Brownlee, said a whole lot of platitudes about how great things are going to happen for this nation. There has been a lot of blame when looking back on the previous Government. Let us remind ourselves what Dr Cullen left the current Government. He left a stable economy and an advancing regional economy that was consistent with profit over 7 successive years, and those who milk cows have done very, very well. A lot of the big businesses in this country continually maintained profits and sizable margins. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022078f0451bb9e40b5a378cc21de399ff3\u0022\u003EHon John Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Dear old Parekura!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bea81790cbf34912b9fb043ff9fe6f79\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I tell John Carter\u2014\u201CHone\u201D Carter\u2014that there were sizable margins, especially north of Auckland. It was one of the highest-performing regions and was driven by the previous Government\u2019s stimulus package, which was more than what that member could do in his time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EIt is amazing when we listen to half of the stuff that comes out of those members\u2019 mouths over there. Mr Brownlee said that the Government is heading to a great place and that it is talking about infrastructure. Some of that infrastructure was so bad when the previous National Government left office\u2014after it sold a whole lot of the State houses; do members remember that?\u2014that infrastructure has taken a long time to recover. We have to ask where this Government is leading us. Will it create jobs and businesses? When we listen to the Minister of Labour, who sits at the back there, we can already tell that she has been sucked in by the framework of long-tooth bureaucrats who talk about the labour market. All of a sudden she pops up and says that 75,000 people have to be made unemployed because of this, just in case the minimum wage is lifted up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003ELet us look at some of the facts about this great package that the Prime Minister announced today. There were some simple things. If a person is earning $750,000 a year\u2014and a lot of those members\u2019 mates are\u2014that person will gain $260 a week under National\u2019s plan, but all that the families on the average wage of $45,000 a year will gain is an extra two bucks a week. The $20 figure being touted by the Prime Minister is a real con. It is outrageous. On $45,000 a year, families barely break even. And what was the edict of the Labour Government that was driven by Dr Cullen? It was about Working for Families. It was about early childcare support. It was about all those issues that were relevant and how a Government can balance progress in the economy with ensuring that those in need get help, rather than those with heaps of money and pockets full of greed. That is what has happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003ENational members were so serious about things. One of the first things that happened when they became the Government was they knocked the 4 percent minimum KiwiSaver contribution to 2 percent. What is that all about? It tells us that they are scrambling. I suspect that there are a whole lot of late-night photocopying sessions going on. They are talking about these programmes, but when we test them on the detail they do not know what the programmes mean. They are photocopying what this Opposition left for them when it was in Government. They have had a cakewalk since they came into Government. It was recognised by the OECD; we were third out of countries that have a recognised, stabilised economy. I fear for the fate of this country with those members handling the books, as they do not even understand the basic assumptions relating to the CPI. It is more that just hourly rates of pay\u2014and here we go again. If we go back to the last time the National Party came into Government, what did it do in its first year? It talked up the recession. I am not denying that there was a global recession, but the Government talked it up big time. And who did its members attack? The workers of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EWhat do M\u0101ori get out of this package? What do the average workers of New Zealand get out of it? Government members talk about the ordinary people. I am trying to define what they mean by \u201Cordinary people\u201D. Is it those people who funded their last election run? Is it other people? It is the working-class people Labour cares about? As a Christmas present, the Government dished out a hire and fire bill that deprives workers of their rights. It is one of the most sanctimonious, evil bits of legislation that this country has seen for a long, long time. A person can work for 3 months with no rights whatsoever. Where else in this Government\u2019s legislation can we recall that happening? That bill was about undermining people\u2019s rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EToday, the Minister for Social Development and Employment said that Labour did nothing. When we previously came into Government, the unemployment rate for M\u0101ori was at 21 to 22 percent, and we got it down to 6 percent. The general unemployment rate was 18 percent, and we took it down to 4 percent. That is real action. We ensured that income-related rents survived. What are those members saying? It is important that we support businesses, but the other thing those members did along with stripping down KiwiSaver was to remove the research and development fund. There has been a heck of a lot of pontification about keeping the export market up and keeping businesses global\u2014all of those aspects. But the Government\u2019s members are just picking and choosing what matters more for their friends. The Minister of Education amazed me, because I was at the function where she said that she had been Prime Minister for a week, and that it was very difficult. I was the Prime Minister for 6 days one year, and I ran the Government from the beach in Tolaga Bay. That was how quiet it was, so I am not too sure what she was up to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EWe have tax legislation that was rammed through Parliament, which proves that National does not care about tens of thousands of Kiwi battlers. I remember someone from that side of the House reciting about a block of cheese. Do members remember that? The members said \u201CHa, ha! A block of cheese!\u201D. The hourly rate is so miserable that people cannot even afford one of those slices in the packs. This is disgraceful; it really is. You know, it is just unfair and it is really interesting to see what Hone Harawira said in the House tonight. The Prime Minister, John Key, said that he did not really consult with the M\u0101ori Party on the minimum wage. I commend Hone Harawira, because he was musing about why his party is connected with a party that has a totally different position from where his people want to be. He was talking about maintaining the issue of $15. It will be very interesting to see where that will get to. Let us talk about the minimum wage. When National left Government last time and we came in, the minimum wage was $7. National increased it by 86c in the 9 years it was in Government. This is what we have to watch with this Government\u2014what is it really going to deliver to the working people? In 9 years National took the minimum wage up by 86c. When we came into Government it was $7. We took it up every year for 9 years, to $12. We also took the youth minimum wage up to $9\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d7c3f0c8cc2455a9059373dbb734573\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Every year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2ccbece539a499f9aa7473c8aab4cf8\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I say to Mr Tremain, and a lot of those people in Hawke\u2019s Bay would have benefited from what we did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022551081744c9e47bcaf80bbddce11ff0a\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: 50c in 84 days isn\u2019t too bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f63fe69f54f2485ca709e2eba72530af\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: No, the truth is that it is $2, not $20. That is what those members have to hang their heads on. Despite all the rhetoric, this is back to the 1990s. You know, leopards cannot change their spots, and if we look at this front bench, we see that it is the same front bench that did all of that stuff. Those members are reciting and enticing the public to suggest that they have the answers. Mr Tremain knows that they do not have the answers. Even though the M\u0101ori Party is there in partnership\u201486 days, Mr Brownlee says\u2014the honeymoon is heading for a crash. The bridal suite is closed, the posy has been thrown over the shoulder, and they are starting to make up reasons for why they are doing supposedly great things for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI believe that the next 3 years will be some of the worst years for this country, not just because of the global recession but because of the return of these people who wounded the working class in this country. They are at it again. The member Tony Ryall was talking about the improvement in health. What did he leave us with? This is the same person who was talking about people lying on beds in the corridors. He closed down a whole lot of the hospitals. The other thing that seems to be happening is the blaming of two lots of people: the Public Service and the governance\u2014\u201CIf they don\u2019t agree with us, we\u2019ll sack them.\u201D That is one thing this Labour Party can say it would never get involved with. Like one of our great leaders here has said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022428ae27541a14791b67e2aaeb9817b4a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I regret to advise the member that his time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u002203abc88fa12543a3b149fa8b2d0ba867\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203abc88fa12543a3b149fa8b2d0ba867\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I had the good fortune in the course of the Waitangi weekend to go to an Indian Sikh temple in South Auckland for a number of hours. The message from that temple to those who were there to listen was a very simple one, and it was contrary to what the previous speaker, Parekura Horomia, said: the legacy that Labour has left is a legacy of distrust, discontent, and waste. What were the issues confronting that community then, and what will they be in the next 3 years? I think it is very easy to articulate them. These are ordinary New Zealanders. These are the types of people whom Parekura Horomia has spoken about. These are the types of people like him, like myself, who have aspirations for New Zealand to do well, and for our families to do well. These three issues that were so significant for them, as they are significant for us, can be encapsulated, I would say, in perhaps three short phrases: the first is the strength of the economy, the second relates to issues around family values, and the third relates to issues around law and order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI think it is with real sadness that members\u2014certainly the ones on this side of the House\u2014contemplate the legacy that Labour has left us. It was a time when there were opportunities to be seized. It was a time when there could be substantial spending, because of surpluses that the Government made, in infrastructure and in health. Sadly, those investments were not made, and those opportunities were squandered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EIf I look at the issue of family values for a moment, I just reflect that to a number of people family values will have a range of responsive feelings. I look at the inclusiveness of Waitangi Day, when multi-ethnic New Zealand is gathered together in what is, I think, a startling and committed display of support. We saw that at Waitangi with the Prime Minister. Members on both sides of the House have been to those Waitangi ceremonies for many years; in my case I have gone for some 12 years. We have seen the disturbances. What did we see this time? We saw, I would say, inclusive goodwill. We saw this not only at Waitangi but also in Auckland, where there were other such displays from the Indian and Chinese communities. That is why I think it is time to start reflecting again on this issue of family values and on how we can strengthen relationships not only within wh\u0101nau and smaller family groupings but, more widely, within the diverse ethnic community that is now our heritage and our treasure. So I touch on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EIt is quite clear, is it not, that New Zealand faces a difficult and uncertain period in the context of what is going on globally. It seems to me that 2009 will be a year that will be difficult for many. It will be a year when many will hunker down. It will be a time when, in the context of businesses such as retail and hospitality, there will be particular challenges. But I think that we are well placed, because of our resilience as a people, to come through that period in a reasonable way. For some it will be hurtful. For most of us it will be very challenging. But we do have some particular advantages, and one of those advantages must surely be our self-sufficiency in food. That is why, to date, the Government has released, and plans to further announce, a whole step of measures that should strengthen our small to medium sized enterprises, which contribute to the wealth of the nation. Ninety-five percent of all business entities in New Zealand are reflected in the small to medium sized enterprise sector, ranging across small unincorporated businesses, partnerships, and, of course, companies themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe final thing I would like to talk about, which was brought home so strongly by that Indian community in South Auckland, is the issue of law and order. Under the previous Labour Government we tolerated a circumstance where law and order was not given the focus and commitment that it should have been given. Sure, it was a significant talking point, and it was very much a talking point in this House. But so often that is where it stopped. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EWe can look at a whole raft of law and order issues, and organised crime would be a good illustration. We have seen a very determined advance by organised crime into areas of activity where traditionally it was not an entrant. It starts with drugs and goes on to a whole lot of racketeering being committed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a99c66d6219473897679e94fd592be4\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: All talk, no action!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261d51ffc5ab64514a7dbb1c14b35ee54\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: To respond to the interjector opposite, I say that is why we plan to launch a whole lot of initiatives that start with issues like DNA testing of those convicted of serious offences. These initiatives go on to deal in a determined way with abuses in the parole system, and to provide effective targeting of young people who are in trouble. There are a whole lot of initiatives that I feel certain\u2014and I know my colleagues do\u2014will produce significant gains to the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b69da021e1744b19abbae533b1b7bf52\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: When will we see the legislation that is being debated today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225404db84f255455290e749ab10ef81ee\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: The legislation will be available for debate today. It will go to select committees for review, for refinement, and for report back. So these catcalls that are coming across the House towards me are empty, because there will be an opportunity for public participation and for debate in this Chamber on the merits of that law. Why those opposite should contend otherwise, I do not understand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThose are three issues that this Government is absolutely committed to dealing with\u2014issues around the economy, issues around the family, and issues around law and order. Surely if those issues are robustly and properly addressed, the first term of this Government\u2014and I hope it will be the first of many terms\u2014will be characterised by robustness, by advance, and by benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00229fd7bc09d0e442d3b35f3f0389224df8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fd7bc09d0e442d3b35f3f0389224df8\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could the Green Party split this call, with me speaking first and Sue Kedgley speaking second?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1cc48657cf34de99a05bb19279ae275\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: That is agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002293e419233ee84287b1cf209caddd12d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293e419233ee84287b1cf209caddd12d3\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I begin my speech by complimenting the director of the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service, Dr Warren Tucker, on the new spirit of openness that he has conveyed since he took over in the position a year or so ago. It is very good that he is allowing, under the Privacy Act, people like me\u2014and others who have been involved in various progressive movements\u2014to look at their files. What those files show are some very bad practices in the history of the Security Intelligence Service in respect of targeting dissenters. My file was concerned with my involvement in the anti - Viet Nam War movement, the antinuclear movement, the anti-apartheid movement, and movements for human rights in Latin America, the Philippines, and elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe horrific thing about that file is that it shows that the Security Intelligence Service had infiltrators pretending to be fellow campaigners. Those infiltrators reported on everyone who was present at the meetings\u2014public and private\u2014and they reported on who was doing what, who was carrying the banners, and who was going out. They even reported on trivial details such as the fact that at 0900 hours a person went out to buy a Sunday newspaper. It was very detailed stuff. My own file detailed my movements around the country and around the world, what car I was driving, and my romantic attachments. All of this was completely unjustified in terms of the law of the Security Intelligence Service and in terms of any concept of fair play. In my case the record goes from when I was aged 11 in 1955. This file has been updated and continued since I have been in Parliament not only with newspaper clippings but also with the monitoring of my private conversations with constituents in the Tamil community of Sri Lanka back in 2003, before I went off on a peace-monitoring trip to Sri Lanka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt is good that the Campaign Against Foreign Control of Aotearoa and other groups have also obtained their files. Those files show a similar pattern over the years of the Security Intelligence Service not upholding the new legislation. It should have been watching only people involved in treason, espionage, and terrorism, but, in the interests of the Government of the day, it has been countering the activities of campaigners. In my case, that countering meant trying to stop me from getting jobs and conspiring directly with employers. It was recorded and reported back to the Security Intelligence Service that I supported someone who was applying for permanent residence in New Zealand. The fact that I had a personal Security Intelligence Service file probably stopped that person from getting permanent residence. So having such a file had concrete effects. It was not just about being watched; it hindered my career and probably the careers of many, many others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt is good that John Key has responded by asking the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, Paul Neazor, to look at the way in which files are set up, maintained, and closed. It is good that John Key says that I\u2014and, hopefully, others whose files show a similar pattern\u2014can cooperate with the inspector-general to really get to the bottom of this issue. We need a much broader inquiry, but that is a good start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe surveillance\u2014or what might be called oversight or accountability measures\u2014of the Security Intelligence Service is very weak. In Parliament today my colleague Kennedy Graham tabled what he received from official sources as being the current membership of the Intelligence and Security Committee. It still lists the members of the previous Parliament, including Winston Peters. No new committee has been set up over the past few months of this Parliament. When I have put forward written questions in the past, I have found that the committee meets for only about an hour a year, which is enough time to hear a little report from the director of intelligence, and perhaps have a cup of coffee. It is not an oversight body, and that is why, over the years, the Security Intelligence Service has effectively been able to be a law unto itself\u2014even spying on members of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThis MMP Parliament represents a much wider range of views than was the case when we had a Labour-National monopoly. The Green Party, in particular, represents movements outside Parliament. It represents people fighting for social change, environmental issues, and international social justice issues like the ones I have been involved in. The twisted logic is that if organisations are spying on these movements for social change and international solidarity, they are also spying on MPs. This practice is an offence to democracy in this country\u2014particularly parliamentary democracy\u2014and it is an offence to Parliament\u2019s independence from the executive. That is why it must be opposed. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbc4c3f07a124fd9b90226926afe9c10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbc4c3f07a124fd9b90226926afe9c10\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, when the Secretary-General of the United Nations was calling for a green new deal, he observed that if we are to emerge from the present global financial crisis we must break the tyranny of short-term thinking, in favour of long-term solutions. Short-term thinking, he pointed out, got us into the present crisis; only long-term thinking will get us out of it. Surely that is the challenge before our Parliament and this Government\u2014long-term thinking and long-term solutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EBut last Friday we had a stunning example of short-term thinking, and in my view incredibly stupid thinking, when the Minister of Education announced that she was removing the requirement for schools to sell healthy food in school tuck shops. That move has, effectively, scrapped the school food guidelines, which have been developed over 3 years and were working well in schools around the country. I believe this is an extraordinarily short-sighted and stupid move when we consider that New Zealand, like most of the Western World, is facing a long-term epidemic in obesity-related diseases, and poor nutrition is the leading cause, by miles, of death and premature disease in New Zealand. The Ministry of Health estimates that obesity costs $500 million in direct health costs, and that one-third of our children are overweight or obese. Experts are warning that unless we radically improve the diets and eating habits of young New Zealanders, our health system will shortly be overwhelmed in coping with the epidemics of type 2 diabetes, obesity, cardiovascular disease, and so forth, and that the damage will be irreversible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EMost people are aware of these looming long-term epidemics, and most New Zealanders therefore accept that we must improve the eating habits and diets of young New Zealanders. That is why the school food guidelines were introduced, and why the previous Government passed a regulation requiring schools to sell healthy food. Sure, a couple of principals bleated about it, but most schools and most parents have been right behind the idea of providing a food environment that promotes better learning and behaviour in pupils. The principal of Wellington East Girls\u2019 College said in the media a few days ago that she had been sceptical when the guidelines were brought in, but they were having a very positive effect. A Wellington College pupil said he was quite gutted when lollies were removed from the tuck shop last year, but now he thinks that is a great idea. He says it is, actually, good to have the temptation taken away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EI could quote many other examples of the overwhelming support for getting junk food out of schools and for promoting healthy eating. It is well established that diet affects children\u2019s behaviour and also their ability to concentrate and learn in class. It is well accepted that children who are loaded with sugar and caffeine struggle to concentrate, and that when they eat healthy food they are better able to concentrate in class, better able to learn, and better behaved. It is also well established that eating high-sugar food contributes to dental disease; we have a major problem of that in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003ESo all of that begs the question of why, just as real progress is being made in changing the food environment in our schools, the Government would ditch that very positive initiative. Why would the Minister ditch it, and remove any obligation to sell healthy food in tuck shops, so that there is now no standard and no expectation that schools have to sell healthy food? That is an astonishingly stupid and short-sighted policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E I now seek an amendment to the amendment to the motion for the Address in Reply, in the name of Sue Kedgley. I seek to move an amendment to the amendment in Phil Goff\u2019s name, to insert, before the words \u201Cand expects\u201D, the words \u201Cand commits to a green new deal to simultaneously combat the economic crisis and the climate crisis in a way which is fair to all New Zealanders, to give our environment the greater protection it desperately needs and on which our economy entirely depends, and to conduct politics in a way which is honest, open, and democratic; and supports the continued representation in this House of the true diversity of voices in Aotearoa New Zealand;\u201D. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022229f82107a984558a090ae3fa80cea73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022229f82107a984558a090ae3fa80cea73\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this debate be now adjourned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b53884817c0b44e68aaf1d2718a9d432\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That this debate be now adjourned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002209d840597cfc4a4ab3785192a97d7395\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220fc91b5080a44d76828cd306cf7dfe1e\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229d5e0b82a2574439b426b5ce0140b518\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d5e0b82a2574439b426b5ce0140b518\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the introduction and first reading of the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill, the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill, the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill, and the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill. These bills are all part of the Government\u2019s 100-day programme. These matters were of prominence for members of this Government during the election campaign, so it is a matter of ensuring that we honour the commitments made to New Zealanders that these bills would be introduced and sent to select committees within the first 100-day period. I appreciate that this means that some parties will not have the 3 days that are normally available to them to scrutinise the bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022541ccfb9baf9404dafc1cd0d16b5b25f\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Three minutes would be nice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef3c9225cc134c94a0792be18da5b631\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we will do something about that. A number of the bills have been made available to spokespeople so that they can peruse what is in them. I think the measures that are in the bills have most certainly been very well signalled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c6fa17fb757b41a2a5a3a702da2a2250\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022627135b7d7574ad88f3e016cf56cd7bd\u0022\u003ECriminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f067f588590e40bd8dda3d390fd4bd52\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Bill of Rights Act Compliance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdfff30ae15642b6bf89f27c693e7620\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdfff30ae15642b6bf89f27c693e7620\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I hereby present a report under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 on the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill. This report is made pursuant to section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 and Standing Order 261.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b03e148b0ee0414ead9dd9aab54050b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b03e148b0ee0414ead9dd9aab54050b9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: This paper is published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b85679e4ecd446ff891f27fc9ef7f0ce\u0022\u003ETaxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f04a2f2af66b4c6fa9df66f9ac923bba\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u002283258b20350b47e69d19c9ef815d8769\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283258b20350b47e69d19c9ef815d8769\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Finance and Expenditure Committee, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 23 March 2009, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting, except during oral questions, and during any evening on a day in which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThis bill gives effect to many of the tax assistance measures that were announced by the Government last week as part of its relief package for businesses, particularly for small and medium sized businesses, which make up the bulk of New Zealand enterprises. These tax changes are aimed at easing the burden of tax on the cash flow of smaller businesses and making it easier and less expensive for them to pay their taxes. For many businesses, cash flow is particularly tight at present, and even in the best of times it takes time and effort to meet normal tax obligations. Some of the proposed changes contained in this bill will allow businesses to hold on to tax moneys longer. Others will lower costs by reducing the number of forms businesses have to fill in, the number of calculations involved, and the number of payments businesses have to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ENot every tax measure in the package announced last week is contained in this bill. Indeed, one of the more important changes was made by Order in Council last week. That gave effect to reduced use-of-money interest rates for underpayments of tax, from 14.24 percent to 9.73 percent, and for overpayments, from 6.6 percent to 4.23 percent. Those new rates will take effect from 1 March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E Another very important tax change that was announced last week is the removal of the 5 percent uplift ratio in the calculation and payment of provisional tax\u2014a change that is included in this bill. Businesses pay provisional tax instalments throughout the year, and for many that is a heavy commitment, especially in the current economic climate. To estimate the amount of tax they have to pay in the coming year, those paying provisional tax use the previous year\u2019s income and add 5 percent to the total. That extra 5 percent is known as the uplift factor or ratio. Underlying the extra 5 percent is the assumption that income will, in fact, grow over the new income year. However, given that we are clearly in a time of negative growth nationally, that is not a fair or helpful assumption to make in terms of those in our small and medium sized business sector, and the burden it would impose on them needs to be removed. For that reason the uplift is being cancelled for the current and next income years. That should help relieve some of the pressure on small businesses by allowing them to hold on to tax moneys a little longer. The longer the money stays in their pockets, the more robust their financial position will be in these tough times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes it possible for a greater number of individual taxpayers to use the standard uplift method of provisional tax rather than estimating their income, thus reducing their compliance costs and their exposure to use-of-money interest. This change was part of the omnibus taxation bill that was introduced in July last year, but has been included in this bill to ensure its more speedy enactment. It is particularly important that the Government moves with speed, clarity, and determination in times such as those we find ourselves in today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe bill also proposes practical changes to a number of tax thresholds. Similar amendments are part of the July tax bill that I referred to a moment ago, but in many cases the threshold measures in the present bill have been enhanced. Again, the proposed threshold changes can lower costs for many businesses by reducing the number of returns they have to fill in, the number of calculations they have to do, or the number of tax payments they have to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ESome of the measures will also allow businesses to hold on to money longer. The GST payments threshold will be raised from $1.3 million to $2 million. That will allow more businesses to enjoy the cash-flow advantages of accounting for GST when payment from invoices is received, rather than when invoices are issued, in which case there can often be a big time lag or, in some cases, non-payment. The income threshold over which GST registration is mandatory is being raised from $40,000 to $60,000. That means that businesses whose GST turnover is below $60,000 can opt out of the GST system if they wish to, thus removing the costs of accounting for GST. Still on the subject of GST, the bill raises the turnover threshold under which businesses may make their GST returns 6-monthly instead of 2-monthly from $250,000 to $500,000. Businesses with a highly seasonal income in particular may well find this change helpful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe PAYE once-a-month filing threshold is being raised from $100,000 to $500,000, which will allow more employers to file PAYE returns and pay PAYE once a month, rather than twice a month as at present. Again, this is a small but important measure to ease cash flow. The threshold under which businesses may file fringe benefit tax returns annually is also being raised from $100,000 to $500,000. That will allow a greater number of employers to file their returns once a year instead of quarterly. That should certainly save time and money spent on interacting with the tax system. Still on the subject of fringe benefit tax, the bill increases the value of minor fringe benefits\u2014small things such as flowers and chocolates\u2014that can be provided to employees without attracting fringe benefit tax. That figure rises from $15,000 to $22,500 a year per employer, and from $200 to $300 per quarter per employee. The changes mean that fewer employers will have to account for fringe benefit tax in relation to minor, unclassified benefits that they may provide to their employees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIn a similar vein, the bill introduces a new $10,000 threshold for business-related legal expenditure. If a business in a given income year has a total bill for business-related legal fees of $10,000 or less, the entire amount will be tax deductible, without the business having to identify which amounts relate to non-deductible capital expenditure, and which relate to deductible revenue expenditure. That will obviously save businesses time and money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThese are the main changes proposed in the bill. The measures announced by the Government last week represent a $480 million package\u2014a nearly eightfold increase on the cost of similar measures in the tax bill that I introduced in July. As I have said on a number of occasions, short of abolishing tax altogether, no single measure will reduce tax-related costs for all businesses. A change that reduces costs for one business may not affect a smaller or a larger business, or a business with a different income flow. But I believe that the changes proposed in this bill, taken as a group, will help relieve the pressure many businesses are facing at present with regard to cash flow. The bill will make it easier and less expensive for them to pay their taxes, and will help them, through this difficult time, to survive and to continue to be good employers. That is an important goal in the interests of business, but it is also in our national interest, and for that reason I commend the bill, with pleasure, to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022872c4e821ba04f04af93b7ad032bddce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022872c4e821ba04f04af93b7ad032bddce\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Labour will support the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill as a small step in the right direction. In so doing, we point out that we have just witnessed one of the modern miracles of MMP. The member who has just resumed his seat\u2014small but perfectly formed\u2014which seems appropriate to this tax package, was indeed also the former Minister of Revenue, who worked on many of these items during the time of the previous Government, so he knows well that what we have here is essentially a continuation of previous thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn my remarks today, I will take the House through some of those commonalities and illustrate where the thinking really does reflect what Labour was doing anyway. I ask who would dispute the idea that we need to cut some red tape, lower some compliance costs, and ease the burden on business, because we all need, particularly at this time, New Zealand businesses to be able to employ, improve their bottom lines, and cope with the cold winds that are coming in from overseas. The second part of my remarks will balance that with a recognition that this bill is in no way a sufficient response to the challenges that we see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EFirst, I refer to the content of the bill. As the previous speaker has illustrated, the bill contains several measures in the area of tax simplification and forms part of the recent package announced by the Prime Minister, which includes several elements already implemented through Order in Council. The first of those was the reduction in the use of money interest rate. Of course, that is the rate that the Inland Revenue Department charges a business if it underpays its provisional tax. The Government has generously reduced that from 14.24 percent to 9.73 percent. Labour\u2019s policy was to make it reciprocal with the credit interest rate that a business would get if it overpaid, which has now been reduced to 4.23 percent. In other words, under the current Government, businesses will still pay twice the use-of-money interest rate that they would have paid if Labour had been re-elected and implemented the policy that we had already signed up to before the election. So that provision is as good as far as it goes, and it goes only half as far as Labour would have gone anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe second one is implementation of a higher GST payments basis threshold. Labour had already commissioned advice on that matter, and we had already signalled that we would raise it. The GST registration threshold is similarly raised, and that was already a measure contained in Labour\u2019s previous tax bill. Businesses with $10,000 or less of business-related legal expenditure can claim deductions for that\u2014good news for lawyers! The PAYE once-a-month filing threshold is raised from $100,000 to $500,000. It was already Labour\u2019s policy to increase it to $250,000, and I think it is fair to say that with the current events that would likely have been reviewed upwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIt is the same with the changes to the fringe benefit tax annual filing threshold. It was already Labour\u2019s policy to increase that from $100,000 to $250,000, so again in this bill we are seeing the implementation of policy that was already in the works anyway. That is no bad thing. I am pleased to see the Government doing it, and happy to support it on the way through, but I just want to be very clear about the fact that it was already in the pipeline. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EOf course, there are some grab-bags here of tax simplification measures where the bill fast tracks certain things, like ensuring that fringe benefit tax liability on vehicles is simplified, \u201Csafe harbour\u201D thresholds for provisional tax, use-of-money interest increases, lower stock trading thresholds, and GST 6-monthly filing return thresholds. The thing all these seeming details have in common is that they were already in Labour\u2019s tax bill. They were already there. By giving it urgency, we welcome the fact that the Government is implementing Labour\u2019s policy. Good on it, I am happy to support it, but that is where the nice stuff ends, because this is in no way a sufficient response to the crisis we face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ENow, members may have thought when they woke up this morning and read their Dominion Post that they had fallen on to a different planet, because there in Tracy Watkins\u2019 excellent column was the chief economist of the International Monetary Fund telling us that Governments around the world must \u201Ccommit \u2026 whatever it takes to avoid a depression.\u201D; \u201CAbove all, adopt clear policies and act decisively \u2026 Do too much rather than too little.\u201D In other words, no less than the chief economist of the International Monetary Fund is telling New Zealanders we need to do something more like the Rudd package. The difficulty this Government has is that the so-called rolling maul of initiatives is really drip-feeding. Businesses are telling us that they do not want to be drip-fed, and they certainly do not want to be drip-fed only a rehash of stuff they knew was in the pipeline anyway. It is like putting a new set of clothes on something that was already there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293ea1ce8b80d44d1a7b54e22887ab05a\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s plagiarising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275994807d2444d0abc391b932c90c633\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: It is plagiarism. Thank you. It is plagiarism, but we are happy to support it. We are not proud. Getting the job done is what counts\u2014that is fine. But, I say to the Government, it should recognise the dangers of drip-feeding. It does not give the business on the corner a vision for the future. It does not give it a game plan. That is why people are saying to this Government: \u201CWhere\u2019s the plan, Sam? Where\u2019s the plan, Bill? Where\u2019s the plan, John?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E One large business in Lower Hutt rang us and said: \u201C Look, we\u2019re largely National voters, we voted for this Government . We are having to review our position, week by week, to see whether we can stay open. A week for us is a long time in business. What are these guys doing? Why haven\u2019t we heard a plan from them?\u201D. And every time we raise that issue, what we hear is that a little more is coming next week, a little more is coming next week. This week apparently we are getting an infrastructure package of, wait for it, $500 million. Woo hoo\u2014500 million! Now, if my memory serves me correctly, Labour had already committed to around $2 billion worth of new infrastructure pre-election, so it is a case of \u201CVote National and you get a quarter of what you would have got.\u201D Well, maybe there is more coming after that. The point for New Zealanders is that they do not want to be drip-fed. They want to see the game plan. They want to know that the Government has a plan, because that in itself will underpin confidence. It will mean that businesses are able to go to their banks and underpin the needed borrowing to get them through the rough weather. Indeed, it underpins the ability of the banks to go to their international swap partners and say that they need to have the credit to keep New Zealand businesses running and that the Government is up for it, the Government is good for it, and the Government has a plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EMaybe it does, but who would know? The Government members are not telling New Zealanders. They are taking this measure under urgency. They are taking a whole lot of other very small measures under urgency, most of which are policies of the previous Government, which we are happy to support, but the point is that Mr English knows that that is not a Southland farmer\u2019s version of a game plan. He knows that businesses are saying they are hungry for more. They have an employment talkfest coming up. By God, expectations are being raised that something substantive will come out of that; if not, there will be huge disillusionment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ETo sum up, there are a range of small, useful, desirable measures in this bill. They are very largely measures that the previous Labour Government had under way before the election. In some cases\u2014probably the most important, the reduction in use of money interest on provisional tax\u2014the cuts go only half as far as Labour had already announced it would go. In speeding things up and giving urgency to tax simplification, the bill simply accelerates measures that had already been announced in previous Government legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ELet no New Zealand business owner, no New Zealand worker, be in any doubt. This stuff is OK as far as it goes, but there is nothing new here, and it is nobody\u2019s idea of a crisis response plan. The rolling maul is jargon for drip-feeding, while what New Zealanders need is confidence that there is a way through this unprecedented crisis. They need confidence that their Government has a way through, can see the big picture, and has the credit markets, the debt levels, and the stimulus package lined up so we can chart our way forward. Only then can they go to their bankers. Only then can their bankers go to their partners and underpin the confidence we all need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ELabour will be voting for this package. We wish we were able to vote for a whole lot more. We look forward to the Government coming back to the House with the next round of measures. It could not be too soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee345da428554932bd6c5adc4865298e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee345da428554932bd6c5adc4865298e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill. This is part of the Government\u2019s overall plan to deal with the particular challenges that the New Zealand economy faces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe member who has just resumed his seat has overlooked the fact that under the previous Government, somehow, well before the rest of the world and long before the global crisis, New Zealand managed to get into its own recession. In fact, that has been one of the events, one aspect of history, that has to some extent hamstrung the choices of the incoming Government. The member also suffers from the delusion, which is widely shared among Labour members, that to announce something is to do it. Well, it is not. In Labour, to announce something is certainly not to get any money for it, let alone to make any decisions about how a measure might actually be implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223936aaa51fa745b48ecbf698ab57a1e4\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is the first of a six-stage step towards doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d69ab8f23ca642c0867a7b0e8fcaf822\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It is, or it is the 12-step method of Alcoholics Anonymous. One of the primary functions of the new Government has been to find Labour\u2019s promises littered around the landscape, and then to find that the announcements we thought had been given in good faith were not, it turns out, given in good faith at all. [Interruption] As the member is finding day by day, his relevance to what is really going in the economy is becoming pretty marginal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOur plan is pretty straightforward, and it is to protect people from the sharp edges of recession. That is as much as can be achieved. We cannot roll back a recession. There is no stimulus package large enough or necessarily effective enough to actually prevent a recession. The second, and in my view just as important, part of the plan is to get the economy ready for recovery. This recession will end, and at that stage we will need an economy that can grow fast, so that we can replace the jobs that will inevitably be lost over the next period of months, as the world economy goes into coordinated recession. That economy will have to be in much better shape than it was in when it went into this recession. Otherwise, it will not be able to grow. So these measures sit alongside other measures, such as the announcement of the extensive revision of the Resource Management Act, as part of a suite of changes that will occur over the next 12 to 18 months or couple of years, to get this economy into shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EA few people\u2014only a few\u2014have criticised the measures in this bill for small and medium sized enterprises as being insufficient. The fact is that there is no one big shot that will make it a lot easier for businesses to find their way through this recession. I do not know what the member opposite is suggesting. If, for instance, car dealers are finding that New Zealanders just are not buying cars, what does the Opposition propose that the Government should do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218bf372e3d244c4a8a7d91d107dd838e\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How about keeping them in jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fb88f9d2c6d4522812aa6117ffedcfe\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we could go and buy cars for them, so that the car salespeople can keep their jobs! You see, when we get past the crisis management vision workshop plan that Labour is proposing, there is not much left to it. Getting this economy in shape to grow again will take 100 different measures, none of which is a big shot but all of which focus on productivity and confidence in business, so that businesses will have the confidence to invest, to replace jobs, and to lift the incomes of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI want to focus on a couple of aspects of this particular package that I think are important. One is the change in the use of money interest. The previous rates were simply way out of line and needed to change, so this package cuts those interest rates quite considerably. The Government can hardly go around complaining about the interest rates that banks are charging on credit cards, when the Inland Revenue Department is charging similar rates for underpaid tax. So the Minister of Revenue is making the adjustment pretty much according to the formula, and it is quite expensive\u2014$72 million, I think, per year. That money will stay in the pockets of taxpayers who would otherwise be paying very high rates of interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EProbably the more important measure, in the shorter term anyway, has been removing the uplift on provisional taxpayers. They are people who do not estimate their provisional tax and automatically have to use an income that is 5 percent higher than it was in the previous year. The effect of removing that uplift is to leave $250 million in businesses\u2019 bank accounts across New Zealand. People who have operated a small or medium sized business\u2014in fact, even a large business\u2014will know just how difficult it can be to incur tax liabilities related to their previous profitable year, then find themselves in an unprofitable year where cash flow is pretty limited and they have to find the money to pay the extra tax. So this measure is a pretty decisive move to leave that money in the bank accounts of businesses around New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThose are the two principal measures. There are a range of other ones, some of which, as the member has pointed out, were already included in a tax bill. We have decided to proceed with those measures urgently, plus to add a number of others, all of which are focused on simplifying the taxation system and trying to reduce the compliance costs for business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe have had the odd comment from, for instance, the Institute of Chartered Accountants of New Zealand, that some of these thresholds do not go far enough. Well, it is a pretty straight trade-off: the more the thresholds are raised, the more revenue the Government can potentially lose. Given that the revenue outlook for New Zealand is pretty poor, we will actually see tax revenues drop over the next couple of years, which has not happened for a long, long time. We need to make sure we are striking the balance between promoting the vigour and efficiency of business on the one hand, and making sure we maintain a reasonable tax base on the other hand. So these measures will be fast-tracked so they can apply to businesses just as soon as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOther propositions have been put up by the Small Business Advisory Group about reducing compliance costs. We are very keen to look at those. I myself believe that there is an opportunity right now for the Government to get reasonably aggressive about the way that it sets out to reduce compliance costs and to change some of the balances that have been built into policy over the last few years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBut this is one measure that will stand alongside many others over the next couple of years. We have dedicated ourselves to undoing the misdirected and complacent policy of the last 9 years, which has left New Zealand business lacking in confidence when it needs it most, and confused under the previous Government about whether that Government was in favour of wealth creation or against it. There can be no doubt now about what the public want to see and what this Government will deliver: a strong focus on creating jobs and creating wealth. We have learnt that when the economy grows it is good for everybody\u2014everyone benefits. A rising tide raises all boats. In the previous year and this year in New Zealand we are experiencing, for the first time in a while, growth stopping and the economy actually shrinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis measure will be there, along with dozens of others, to help to lift the potential as we come out of this recession. We will do that in a way that does not pile up problems for the future. Everyone will ask why we do not do more now. As they are finding out in the US and Australia, the public are quite wary of piling up large amounts of debt, because they know that it is their debt and that they will have to repay it. It is easy for politicians to say \u201CI\u2019ve solved all your problems today and I\u2019ve spent $2 billion on doing it.\u201D, but the public are going to have to pay back every dollar, with interest, before too long. In a country that already has high levels of debt, it is incumbent on the Government to be responsible. That is why this kind of measure strikes the right balance between giving some cash help to businesses, which is debt finance, that will help them in the shorter term but does not create larger problems for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis bill is a sensible measure that deserves the support of the whole House, and I hope that is what it gets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c611c0818dd446769236577da8a278e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c611c0818dd446769236577da8a278e8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party will be supporting the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill. I take issue, though, with some of the comments made by the Minister of Finance, who has just resumed his seat, which were trying to redraw history. He was trying to say to the electorate that the National Government inherited a very poor set of accounts, that it inherited problems with unemployment, and that the country was heading in the wrong direction\u2014all of those are fictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ELet us deal firstly with the question of unemployment. The Labour Party places a high value on employment growth and a high value on low unemployment. Keeping people employed is always at the centre of a Labour Party policy agenda. Employment is the best way to share income and wealth. Reliance on a benefit is very much a poor relation to having a regular income from a job, particularly in a country where the minimum wage was raised by Labour from around $7 an hour to $12 an hour under our watch. During the time of the previous Labour Government, unemployment dropped sharply. In fact, it dropped so sharply that for the last couple of years New Zealand regularly traded places with South Korea as to whether we had the lowest unemployment rate in the world or the second-lowest unemployment rate in the world. That is what this current Government inherited: a legacy of low unemployment built through sound economic management and prudent fiscal policy on the part of the Labour Government\u2014not high unemployment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis Opposition will hold the National Government responsible for unnecessary rises in unemployment. There is no doubt that unemployment is on the rise around the world. Although we in Labour do not hold the National Government responsible for all rises in employment, we will hold it responsible for the excessive rises of unemployment that it has already occasioned in some small industries in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFor example, we saw hundreds of millions of dollars in direct inward foreign investment in the forest sector lost as a consequence of the National Government\u2019s ill-considered talk of suspension of the emissions trading scheme. We have seen losses of jobs in the biofuel industry through the injustices that were caused to that industry via the legislation that Mr Brownlee forced through the House under urgency just prior to Christmas. Those are but two instances of already increasing unemployment that could have been easily avoided by the National-led Government. It inherited low unemployment; it did not inherit high unemployment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI think one of the policy challenges of the next decade internationally will be how we deal with the unemployment that will be a consequence of the global recession. I say with some confidence that that will be more central to the policy agenda of any Labour Party than it will be to that of the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe second indicator of the state of affairs that the National Government inherited from the Labour Government, which again it says was a poor set of cards, is Government debt. Government debt was reduced from 38 percent of GDP when the Labour Government took office to under 20 percent of GDP when it left office. People who are regular listeners to Parliament on the radio or regular readers of the newspaper will remember that virtually every year when the Labour Government reduced debt through running Budget surpluses at a time of plenty, the National Party claimed that we were not returning money to taxpayers that should have been returned to taxpayers in the form of tax cuts. Year after year it said that tax cuts were the preferred way to deal with those surpluses, not retirement of Government debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202e2600b86a542668a3ad30130db3374\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: So how much did you actually retire?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022201e1645e25e4bf499bed661ce86f155\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: We retired enough to reduce Government debt from 38 percent of GDP to 20 percent of GDP. Chris Tremain says that is not good enough. If the state of affairs had been as had been proposed then by National, Government debt would still be a far higher proportion of GDP, and New Zealand would be in the position of some other countries, like Great Britain, for example, and many other developed OECD countries that approached this recession not having reduced their debt as a percentage of GDP in recent years. They are in the invidious position of having rising Government expenditure as a consequence of rising numbers of people reliant on unemployment benefits and, at the same time, they already have high Government debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe UK Government is in danger of going down the route the last but one National Government\u2014Muldoon\u2019s National Government\u2014left New Zealand in, which was with high levels of Government debt and rising unemployment. It was a very, very difficult state of affairs to overcome. Indeed, it took this country 20 years to recover from that, and there was a period\u2014I admit\u2014of good stewardship of the fiscal position of the Government by the previous National Government. But then the previous Labour Government, under Dr Cullen, did even better and should be congratulated on recognising that in boom times we must retire Government debt if we are to have a strong enough balance sheet to help people through a recession by maintaining levels of decent social provision, as this country is now able to afford as a consequence of the previous Government\u2019s management of the fiscal position of the State. We must not let the National Government try to rewrite that history and say that National has somehow inherited a terrible state of affairs and such a difficult position, and that, therefore, the bad job it does is all that can be expected, because that is not based on fact. It inherited low Government debt and low unemployment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E Turning to what the Government should be doing in this bill but is not, it should be looking to the future and restoring the research and development tax credit, which it abolished prior to Christmas. That was a ridiculous thing to do. The Government had tax cuts that gave an extra three-quarters of a billion dollars to people who were already better off, so do not need the extra money to pay for the groceries every week. The Government funded those tax cuts in part by taking money out of the business sector, but that is the very sector that this bill is intended to affect. But more important, it took it out of the part of the sector that will be responsible for the development of high-value products. New Zealand needs the development of those products in order to earn export revenues to grow the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI do not criticise this bill, as far as it goes, and I think it is a good idea to reduce the default income assessment for provisional taxpayers from 105 percent to 100 percent of current year earnings. That is a good measure. Some of the other measures, like changing the thresholds for GST, etc., are also good moves. I do not deny that, but the Government has not yet undone the damage it caused by abolishing the research and development tax credit, and it has not done much to improve the productivity of our industrial output. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Government has said much about its changes to the Resource Management Act. I have read the changes proposed. I agree with most of them, but not all of them. The Government is kidding itself if it thinks that changes to the Act will significantly improve the GDP growth of New Zealand. It will not do that. The changes to the Act are much less significant\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7ea111421e1406984e446d8ec2330fc\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: No one said it\u2019s a silver bullet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf1ccf6e3f054e8c98c21dd104ab91d5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Tremain says that no one claims it is a silver bullet, but I have heard National members ranting on for years claiming that the Resource Management Act is the big obstacle to growth and productivity. I say it is not the big obstacle to growth and productivity; it is far less significant than the research and development tax credit, which National abolished prior to Christmas. The research and development tax credit would have had a far greater effect on improving New Zealand\u2019s economic growth and the wealth of New Zealanders, and on improving our ability to afford the things we all want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill will not do much to reduce the growth of unemployment. I repeat, the National Government ought not to get away with the myth that it is trying to portray\u2014that it has inherited a poor state of affairs. New Zealand is in better shape in terms of the Crown\u2019s financial position and unemployment than just about any other country in the world. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022efbff573bf0644a48fdc88d6a55f11e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efbff573bf0644a48fdc88d6a55f11e4\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party\u2019s policy on small businesses is to support those businesses by means of the relaxation and elimination of red tape and compliance costs. For that reason, I am happy to stand here today to support the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill going to the select committee. Perhaps some people will be surprised by that, but I have to say that our support is cautious and extends no further than voting for the bill to be referred to the select committee. The reason for this is that this bill is being introduced under urgency. Of course, taxation bills will sometimes need to be introduced under urgency, but nothing in this bill requires that. Once again, we see a Government that is causing a further affront to democracy and an affront to healthy politics in the way it is using the processes of the House. We oppose that practice. Today is the first time we have seen this bill, and consequently I have not had the opportunity to read it thoroughly. My comments will be general ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI will talk about the bees for a second. Those of us who live in rural areas, and particularly in the bush, sometimes have a problem with bees. They come into our house, because they are looking for their nests. They come in a straight line, and they end up buzzing against the windows of the inside of our house. If we go away for a couple of weeks, we come back and there is a snowdrift of dead bees. The bees know no other way of getting to their nest, and no mater what we try, the only way we can fix that problem is to shift the nest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EEinstein said that solutions to problems would not be found by using the same kind of thinking that created the problem in the first place. Yet that is precisely the kind of thing that this Government, and many around the world, seem to be doing. The responses we have seen to this recession\u2014or this depression, or whatever it may turn out to be\u2014are ones that assume that any economic activity is as good as any other, and that the answers to those problems lie in continued consumption and continued credit. Those are ultimately doomed responses. They are like the responses of the bee that sees no other way. We desperately need to shift the goalposts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI am a person who has come to this House after a background in owning and managing small businesses. I have to say that there are many aspects of this bill that, clearly, I would support, and it will actually make the running of a lot of small businesses easier. However, I am also frustrated by the lack of coherence in the Government\u2019s response and in its measures to assist small businesses. As the Hon David Parker has just said in this House, on the one hand the Government is providing a helping hand to small businesses by relieving some of those compliance costs and by relieving some of that unnecessary tax burden. However, on other hand, it is pulling the rug out from under the feet of many small businesses\u2014those very small businesses that display the innovation that our nation so desperately needs in order to see a way forward in this time of crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThere is no coherent reason for the Government\u2019s withdrawal of the research and development tax credit, yet now it is offering small business another hand. I was very pleased to hear the Hon Bill English talk about his readiness to consider the recommendations of the Small Business Advisory Group. I want to focus on a couple of them, because that group has consistently provided a number of extremely useful, constructive, and positive suggestions for Governments to be able to assist small businesses. Many of those suggestions come in the form of extra tools that businesses could use\u2014web-based business centres and online checklists, guides, and case studies. Those are a couple of things recently suggested by the group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI want to focus on a couple of recommendations from the last report of the Small Business Advisory Group. It recommended that \u201Cpublications be produced that give practical and implementable advice and support for small and medium enterprises to improve their environmental performance and to derive business benefit from the recognised, or certified, environmental sustainability of their products and processes.\u201D It sounds like good sense to me. It sounds like the kind of thing that could be done for a lot less than $500 million. The group also recommends that \u201Call foodstuffs sold in New Zealand be required to be labelled with the country of origin of the defining component or the most significant component of the foodstuff.\u201D The Green Party would strongly support such a measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIn 1933 Franklin Delano Roosevelt, in his inauguration address, spoke about the origins of the financial crisis that was gripping the world at that time. In particular, he spoke about the motivations of those who had speculated through greed, and now had no answers to offer. In outlining the principles upon which his New Deal lay, he said: \u201CThe measure of that restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.\u201D As Dr Russel Norman said earlier today in the House, talk around the world is now focusing on a \u201CGreen New Deal\u201D\u2014on the need to confront not only the financial crisis but also the crises in environment and energy. They should be confronted not as separate things\u2014not as alternatives, as the Government has tended to suggest\u2014but as a coherent whole. The idea of a \u201CGreen New Deal\u201D is to tackle those financial problems in a way that also leads and adds to our ability to focus on the environmental crisis we face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIn January this year Dr Norman issued five challenges to the Government in relation to that green new deal. He challenged the Government to restore the Green Homes Fund, because it would keep Kiwis and their economy healthy. He challenged it to set standards for smart meters. It is a shame that Mr Brownlee has just left the Chamber, because at a time when it becomes increasingly clear that we also need to rebuild the infrastructure for our national grid, it is important that we also set a standard for a smart grid and not simply rebuild the previous old failing one. Smart meters would save New Zealanders money, and would save the country power. In the same way that compliance costs for business actually drag down our nation, paying for power that we do not need to pay for is another drag on business. This is a smart way forward. By owning the most fuel-efficient cars, taxpayers can be saved at least $30 million a year. We could cut our oil consumption by a quarter and save the country $2 billion a year. And for every dollar spent on roads, we could spend at least $1 on public transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe economy and the environment are not competitors, and they cannot be if we are to survive this. They must be dealt with coherently and as an integrated whole. As Ban Ki-moon said: \u201CToday with the economic downturn and climate change, the stakes for companies have never been higher. But for businesses with vision, the rewards are equally high. The green economy is low-carbon and energy-efficient. It creates jobs, and it creates investment in sustainable technologies that will turn today\u2019s crisis into tomorrow\u2019s sustainable growth.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe Green Party supports the bill going forward to a select committee, but we announce our frustration that it is actually such a small part of the solution. We look forward to tomorrow\u2019s announcement from the Government, and we take heart from the Prime Minister\u2019s assurance that we will be impressed by the things that it contains. Let us hope that he really will embrace a green new deal\u2014a true, integrated way forward for this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u00225b87051e4d7f478e89aaf76fc4cfc3e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b87051e4d7f478e89aaf76fc4cfc3e7\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the first reading of the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill. This is a bill that the ACT Party will be supporting. However, before commenting on the bill in particular, I will refer back to my maiden speech where I said that it was a real privilege to be a member of this House. One such privilege was representing the ACT Party at Waitangi over the weekend. It was a privilege and an honour to be welcomed by the Ng\u0101puhi people on to Te Tii Marae. The feeling of goodwill and harmony was overwhelming, and it was a credit to both the Ng\u0101puhi people and other iwi from throughout the country, and to both the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition, who led their respective teams. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThis bill introduces a raft of changes to the way our small and medium sized businesses are taxed. Small and medium sized businesses are the engine room of the New Zealand economy. Ninety-six percent of businesses are small and medium sized enterprises, employing fewer than 20 staff. Collectively, they employ around a third of our workforce. However, the question that has to be asked is why these measures are necessary. I was quite incredulous to hear the Hon David Cunliffe and the Hon David Parker talk about National attempting to rewrite history. The facts are that over the 9 years of the Labour Government, Government expenditure over and above inflation, and over and above population growth, increased by double the rate of inflation\u2014it increased by 6.5 percent, and by the equivalent of $12,000 per household per year, which is $1,000 a month or $230 a week. So over the last 9 years we saw a massive increase in Government expenditure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThe Hon David Parker talked about the Hon Michael Cullen being frugal and paying off debt. He talked about the wisdom of paying off debt during times of buoyancy. But in the last 9 years Mr Cullen presided over the greatest spend-up our country has ever had. The reason this country is in recession\u2014and, I fear, depression\u2014is that opportunities have been lost in the last 9 years. We have had very, very high export prices for our commodities during most of that time, and the opportunity to put that money, through tax cuts, back into the hands of ordinary New Zealanders has been squandered and lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EDuring the period of the 1980s and the early 1990s, labour productivity increased by over 2 percent per annum. We can compare that with the last 9 years when it was less than 1 percent\u2014it was three-quarters of 1 percent. I heard the Hon Parekura Horomia talk earlier in the debate about the incomes of low-income people. Well, the people who have been affected most by the large spend-up have been those people. They have been denied tax cuts and the chance to spend their own money. One of the key issues this country has to address is how we increase productivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EMr Parker also spoke about rewriting history. Well, let us look at accident compensation. One of the first moves of the Labour Government was to renationalise accident compensation, and that was despite the overwhelming evidence that the system was far more efficient during the short period when it was available for private tender and private operation. People got back into work from their injuries far earlier than they do under the current State-nationalised accident compensation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI also heard the Hon David Cunliffe say that the Labour Government was going to do that, anyway: \u201CWe were going to do this, anyway; we were going to introduce these changes.\u201D Well, I have a very simple question for him; I ask him why he did not. This National - ACT - M\u0101ori Party Government, with United Future, has taken urgency in introducing this bill. It took urgency on a number of measures in the last 2 weeks of last year. One of the measures that passed into law last year was to make it easier for employers to employ people. We are already in a recession and an important point to note is that this recession started long before the last election day on 11 November. It started long before then. This country has been in recession for the last 12 months. We led the world into recession. Yes, the situation has got a lot worse since October; the whole world is now in recession\u2014that is acknowledged\u2014but our country was one of the first to lead the world into recession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003ESo when I hear the Hon David Cunliffe say that the National Government is trying to rewrite history, I tell members that this country is in this situation right now because of the decisions that his Government made. He also said that he would like to do so much more. Well, on that note, the ACT Party and the Labour Party are absolutely united, because we in ACT would also like to do so much more. One of the problems this Government has is that it has committed itself to a number of stakes in the ground. Let us look just at the area of health. Earlier I mentioned labour productivity. Over the last 9 years expenditure on health, since the Health Funding Authority was cancelled, has increased by 18 percent over and above inflation, and over and above per capita increases\u2014by 18 percent\u2014and the number of operations performed under the district health board structure has actually reduced. So we have had a drop in productivity in the health sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThis country has a number of challenges. Labour\u2019s mismanagement in the spending of more than $230 per week, per household, over and above population per capita and inflation, is just one of them. That Government robbed every family of the ability to spend its own money. As our country moves further into recession we will hear more about tax cuts, but ACT does not believe that National has gone far enough. I heard the Hon Peter Dunne say that short of cutting tax altogether, it is hard to imagine that one could do better than this bill. The reality is that we can do a lot better than this bill. We can introduce low flat tax taxes. We can provide an incentive for people to get off benefits. We can reward people who actually want to work and contribute to the productivity of this country. We do not want to create a psyche in this country, as we have, that the people who receive Working for Families have effective marginal tax rates of 50, 60, or 70 percent. Where is the incentive for someone to go to work if he or she will lose three-quarters of his or her income? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EYes, reference has been made to the changes to the Resource Management Act. We will be hearing a lot more about that, because of the changes that have been pushed through by the ACT Party. One of the concessions that was made to the ACT Party in its confidence and supply agreement was the appointment of a Minister in charge of fiscal responsibility. Over the next 3 years I look forward to challenging my National Party colleagues on the changes that are required to turn this country round. We need to do more than just tinker. These changes are required in order to make the significant changes in productivity necessary to get this country back on its feet. I note with interest that my colleague Sir Roger Douglas has taken the opportunity to address members of the \u014Crewa Rotary Club on this very issue, as I speak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI conclude by saying that the ACT Party will be supporting this bill, but like the Hon David Cunliffe we believe that so much more can be done and we look forward to convincing our National Party colleagues of that fact. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022916afcb2c5bb4f69a7276a2be18ead3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022916afcb2c5bb4f69a7276a2be18ead3b\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E There is no question that the investments that Aotearoa makes in small and medium sized enterprises have been increasing over recent years. Since 2006 the number of small and medium sized enterprises has increased by 2 percent, while the number of people employed by those same enterprises has increased by a massive 18 percent since 2001. Indeed, the economic landscape of this country is dominated by the impact of small to medium sized enterprises. Within this, we know that as of 2007 the total value-added profit produced by M\u0101ori businesses grew to approximately 2 percent of New Zealand\u2019s GDP, compared with 1.2 percent in 1996. Building resilient businesses, which have the internal fitness to stand up to the ongoing financial market instability and the heightened risk of economic vulnerability, is therefore of importance to us all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EJust how bleak the prospects look for some of our small to medium sized enterprises is seen in the recent quarterly survey of business opinion, sponsored by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research. The survey was sufficient to shock the sector into action. Forty-four percent of companies reported a drop in activity throughout the December quarter\u2014the worst result for close to 40 years. The effects are immediate. About a third of firms predict they will have to cut staff by the end of March 2009, compared with just 7 percent in the last quarter. The signs are all there for hard times ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003ESo it was in that context that my colleague Dr Pita Sharples, just 2 weeks ago, called M\u0101ori business experts, tribal entrepreneurs, and wh\u0101nau leaders together to consider ways to insulate and protect the M\u0101ori economy from the impact of economic recession. That esteemed group had just 2 hours to come up with possible solutions. It was a challenge that, from all accounts, they rose to. Out of that session of the M\u0101ori economic summit came a raft of suggestions, including the removal of tax for small and medium sized businesses to keep cash flowing, and a call for M\u0101ori to concentrate on skills training where there are gaps in the labour market. So here we are today, considering a host of amendments to current and proposed tax laws to reduce business compliance costs for small and medium sized businesses. The package includes raising the reporting threshold on PAYE, fringe benefit tax, and GST, and introducing simplified rules for deducting legal expenditure. Importantly, the package being debated today will instigate changes to reduce the tax liability faced by small and medium sized businesses, thus assisting with cash flow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThis is a big day for the M\u0101ori Party. In our policy manifesto we made the commitment to incentivise small businesses to grow. We signalled that unnecessary compliance costs would be reduced. We noted that we would invest in strategic alliances across central and local government, industry, business, and M\u0101ori communities. The particular priority of the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s business policy is to support the development and innovation of small businesses, including the minimisation of taxation and compliance costs. Today\u2019s legislation sees many of these great ideas come into fruition. This bill is another illustration of the concept that what is good for M\u0101ori is good for the country as a whole. The assistance package brings into swing some 18 initiatives that will help small to middle sized enterprises weather whatever storm awaits. It is designed to take the pressure off the sector by protecting businesses from suffering when the cash flow is scarce, by building capability to withstand shrinking markets, and by focusing on tax, cash flow, and regulation. It is all about building confidence in the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EIn this sense, the acclaim from Professor Massey, director of Massey University\u2019s New Zealand Centre for SME Research, has gone down well. Professor Massey estimates that the sector will achieve efficiencies of up to $480 million, which will be effective immediately in easing a situation where cash flow is tight while also preparing for the long term. We welcome this package today as an innovative and comprehensive approach that ties together many separate strands of opportunities to act as a buffer against the worsening fiscal position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EA fortnight ago, at the M\u0101ori economic summit, the chief executive officer of the Stock Exchange, Mark Weldon, made the point that this is the time to look beyond conventional methods of economic stimulation. The 18 steps encompassing tax-related charges, trade finance, disputes tribunals, and faster payments do exactly that. There are business-related tax deductions, and compliance thresholds are raised, the export credit scheme is expanded, the scope of the disputes tribunal is expanded, and business advice services are extended. There is also the prompt payment requirement. Another initiative mooted at the M\u0101ori economic summit was that small firms be able to defer their provisional tax payments for 3 years as a specific measure to help those firms retain staff. The package does not go as far as that, but it does amend the provisional tax uplift rate, with the argument that the threshold could be reduced or eliminated, so reducing the magnitude of a taxpayer\u2019s provisional tax payments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EFinally, I take this moment to acknowledge Ng\u0101 Kanohi Marae o Wairarapa that yesterday launched the marae-based trade training programme. The programme invites nominees from 11 marae on to a 3-year programme funded by the Ministry of Social Development, to provide young school-leavers with the skills to enter the trade industry. The programme is designed for rangatahi who may be at a loose end but who are committed towards making a constructive contribution to their communities. Alongside developing confidence in work readiness, the programme will also nurture the trainees in upholding the mana of their marae. I wanted to celebrate their success in talking to this bill, as I believe that initiatives such as trade training are another key component of what we can reasonably expect as a package to help our communities see out the recession. With the prospect of jobs dwindling, the probability that many M\u0101ori young people will be disproportionately represented amongst the unemployed is high. We need to look again at our schools and our tertiary training providers to ensure that if students are having longer time in study or in school, their experience is meaningful and will lead towards enhancing their employment prospects. We support this bill at its first reading, and will welcome any more innovative proposals that emerge at the select committee consideration. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022860bcbecb5a741d5ad259dd984ff108c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022860bcbecb5a741d5ad259dd984ff108c\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill. I join every previous speaker from every party in the House who has now indicated support for this bill, which is urgently required, given the current economic situation around the globe and particularly the way in which that is affecting New Zealand businesses. I acknowledge the expediency with which all members are trying to get this bill through its first reading, and I look forward to working with members if and when this bill arrives at the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I hope we will continue that expediency, because it is urgently required that New Zealand businesses have some certainty and some clarity around the current situation and all things to do with taxation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E Many aspects of the international credit crunch cannot be avoided by whichever parties the New Zealand Government comprises, but the New Zealand Government can do many things to help knock off the sharp edges of the current economic credit crunch, recession, or whatever one likes to call it. It is pretty tough out there, and it is imperative that the Government is able to put these measures into place as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThere is a cost to this package of about $480 million, but what has not been talked about is the benefit in time for small and medium sized enterprises in New Zealand. There is a benefit in time and gain in productivity for them, 98 percent of them, as they virtually halve the time they will need to spend on PAYE, GST, and fringe benefit tax, in some instances. Those are simple productivity gains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI fully acknowledge that many measures in this bill originated with the Minister in the previous Government, and many measures in this bill relating to small and medium sized businesses came from the Taxation (International Taxation, Life Insurance and Remedial Matters) Bill. I acknowledge that across the House. Yes, we have talked about how things should be bigger, longer or wider, but we have all acknowledged, and earlier speakers have shown, that passing this legislation is urgent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EAs my colleague the Minister of Finance, the Hon Bill English, noted earlier, there are many more measures to come; this is but one. I am very grateful to the House that this \u201Cbut one\u201D crucial measure seems to have cross-party support and total member support so far in this House. I look forward to working with this bill in the Finance and Expenditure Committee. It will be a tight report back, but the indications are that we will get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022088a61c86f9e40a8bc07af4d4f446432\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022088a61c86f9e40a8bc07af4d4f446432\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is with pleasure that I stand to talk to this Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill. Like the rest of my colleagues, I support and welcome the bill, as I support and welcome anything that streamlines compliance costs and the time needed by small-business owners to meet their regulatory requirements and makes life easier for the 96 percent of New Zealand businesses that are classed as small to medium enterprises, as long as those terms do not compromise either the integrity of the investing community or the transparency of the process required in a fully functioning economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThese businesses are the backbone of the New Zealand economy, and employ over 60 percent of our workforce. They need these measures, and this is a good entr\u00E9e. But where is the meat and vege? As my colleagues have already alluded to, what is proposed here is hardly earth-shattering. It is a start, but it is hardly earth-shattering. As the Hon David Cunliffe said, a lot of these measures were already outlined in Labour\u2019s pre-election tax bill on how to deal with the then-looming economic crisis. It was a given that Labour would have implemented similar sorts of measures almost immediately if its members had won the Treasury benches. But we did not, and the paradox is that businesses in New Zealand must be groaning at the response from the so-called \u201Cparty of business\u201D. They are groaning and saying \u201COh, no!\u201D. After 9 years and an average of 15 to 18 percent growth year on year for many of the past 9 years\u2014hardly business-unfriendly\u2014here is a National Government that has promised nothing, and it has delivered on that. In fact, it has exceeded its promise of nothing, and it has delivered next to nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EDo not get me wrong. As mentioned, I support this bill. It is just that it under-delivers on what the small and medium enterprise sector really needs to prime the economy and survive the largest recession since 1929. Let us not underestimate the seriousness of the current situation. This is dire and desperate, and it requires strong measures. If the Nats\u2019 economic crisis package is a rolling maul, then I hope for the sake of New Zealand\u2019s business community that we have not kicked off. If Mr Key is the referee, then Mr English is the ballboy running around and desperately looking for a pump and a valve to inflate the ball, which is now flat. All the players on the field are getting cold as they wait for the promised action and the spectators in the stand are growing grumpy as they tire of no action, and why? Because in other fields across the globe, strong captains have taken the ball and run. If this is a rolling maul, then I ask Mr Key to blow the whistle, as the maul has collapsed, there is now a ruck, and the players are hurting. Blow the whistle, take charge, and get this game under way. If the National Party is a rugby team and this is a rolling maul, how about freeing the ball, getting it out to the wing, and starting to score some points? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe sad thing is that this is not a game of rugby. While New Zealanders may understand a rugby analogy, they know the rules have changed this time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228766416392d04c238850c6be07a47a01\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Red card!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215eeecd7f1c241d1984a1fe3a2f802a1\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a red card for that member\u2014and it demands some serious action. This situation is deadly serious, and it demands a deadly serious and comprehensive plan. I say to Mr English that it demands a plan that will get us through. We need a light at the end of the tunnel, because at the moment many businesses cannot see their way clear of this crisis and it will only get worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI was talking to the chief executive officer of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Chamber of Commerce last week, and he said that for the first time businessmen and women are coming into his office in desperation and at their wits\u2019 end as to how they will pay their bills. They cannot afford to go to their accountants to seek advice, so they seek free advice from an organisation that has no funding for the provision of such a service. I say to Mr English that this is not a game, but a very serious situation that demands a very serious response. The people of New Zealand and the small and medium enterprise sector are looking to the Prime Minister and his Minister of Finance for guidance and solutions. However, so far the honourable members are not even committed to following the global players, let alone leading them. I look across at the Government benches, at \u201CPrime Minister Obama\u201D\u2014I apologise, that was a bit of a slip. It is an analogy because we never see the Prime Minister here. It is hard to tell the difference between Obama and Key; they are very similar in so many ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI look across at Prime Minister Key, and I actually feel sorry for the member. I do; I feel sorry for the Prime Minister, because in a previous corporate life I am sure that the honourable member would not have tolerated such a limited and underwhelming response to such a serious issue. But now Mr Key is forced to tolerate it. He must be frustrated at the Minister of Finance\u2019s response to this crisis. If Mr Key is listening, I ask him to admit it\u2014if only to the radio, admit it. He can admit, off the record, that this is frustrating for a man who worked in such an environment. I feel for Mr Key because, as John Armstrong said in his column, the Prime Minister\u2019s reputation is on the line and it is suffering. I tell Mr Key to take charge, like in the old days, and just make it happen himself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMr Key has self-styled himself as a businessman and a saviour. I was sitting at a table with a couple of other blokes at a function where Mr Key spoke, and they said \u201CThank God that the Nats have a Prime Minister who understands business.\u201D They just did not understand politics. Mr Key may understand business or global currency trading, but the question that these esteemed but somewhat misguided gentlemen must now be asking is: \u201CDoes his finance Minister understand business?\u201D. It appears not. If Mr Key is Barack Obama, does that turn the Hon Bill English into Henry Paulson, or Tim Geithner? Wow! They are hardly in the same league, and I think everyone here would agree with that. I wonder whether the journalists at The Economist, the New Zealand Herald, the Dominion Post, and the National Business Review, and the range of commentators writing in our papers have a greater knowledge of what is actually happening in New Zealand, let alone around the world, in terms of this global crisis than our current Minister of Finance. It is rather scary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI ask: where is the vision? Where is the plan? Where is the debate around the state of the regulatory environment to the extent that major structural changes may be needed to the way in which businesses operate in the future? I ask Mr English to please show us the plan. On behalf of businessmen and women right up and down this wonderful country, I ask him to please show us how he will address the issues that are already beginning to impact upon the New Zealand economy. We already know that it is going to get worse. I keep reading about the depth and breadth of this recession. While we all hope that the commentators, economists, and experts are wrong, if they are right then why is there secrecy from ordinary New Zealanders as to the response from the National Government and its Minister of Finance? Why the secrecy, or is there just nothing to hide because there is nothing in the ideas cupboard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e49cf227ee1b41e19175eb159b83a94e\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, what I am keen to see, and what I think the people of New Zealand are keen to see, and certainly what the small to medium business enterprise sector is keen to see, is some sort of vision. My questions to Mr Key and Mr English are: where is the vision, where is the plan, and where is the debate around the state of the regulatory environment to the extent that major structural changes may be needed to the way in which businesses operate in the future? I ask Mr English to please show us the plan. That is my request to him. On behalf of businessmen and women up and down this wonderful country I ask him to please show us how he will address the issues that are already beginning to impact upon the New Zealand economy, and which, as we all know, will only get worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI keep reading about the depth and breadth of this recession. Whilst we all hope that the commentators, the economists, and the experts are wrong, or only half right, if they are right, why the secrecy from ordinary New Zealanders as to the response from the National Government and its Minister of Finance? Why the secrecy, or is there just nothing to hide because there is nothing in the ideas cupboard? Is it that like Old Mother Hubbard, there is really nothing in the cupboard? It is worrying for all of us. It will be a long 2\u00BD years for ordinary and extraordinary New Zealanders because this recession will bite, it will be deep, it will be long, and it will be hard. The people of New Zealand will look to Mr English and Mr Key to come up with solutions, and so far we have seen no solutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EYes, this bill is a start and we do support it, but it is not enough. As the Hon Mr Cunliffe said, it parrots Labour\u2019s initiatives before the full extent of this crisis was understood, but it is not even close to far enough to addressing the concerns and the hardships of small and medium enterprises. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u00228e352a81c3944168afccca3dc250947c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e352a81c3944168afccca3dc250947c\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E The speaker before me, Stuart Nash, tried to make out that there was no vision or plan for taking this nation forward. That is completely wrong. There is a clear plan to take this nation forward, and it began the day after this Government was elected to the House. Within a few short weeks we were in this Parliament introducing tax law\u2014our tax breaks\u2014and rolling those tax breaks through. Within a few more weeks we are back here introducing a range of other new initiatives. Tomorrow we will have a rollout of our infrastructure plan. Today we have introduced this bill relating to small to medium enterprises. It contains no fewer than 14 initiatives, which is a pretty clear number of initiatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI have risen in support of this Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill, but before I get into that I welcome Mr Nash to the House. I acknowledge that he is from Napier and I wish him well in his parliamentary career, which I am sure will be a good one. Mr Nash and I both went to a fine school\u2014Napier Boys\u2019 High School\u2014and I want to start my speech tonight by referring to another old boy of Napier Boys\u2019 High School, and that is a gentleman by the name of Rod Drury, who owns a company here in Wellington called Xero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EXero is a medium-sized software development business, and Rod has summed up the feelings of many small-business owners I have spoken to in the last few days. He disagrees with what Mr Nash is saying. He believes there is a clear vision in the initiatives that are being rolled out as we speak. He said in a press release: \u201CIt\u2019s fantastic to see the New Zealand Government putting words into action\u201D\u2014which means rolling out initiatives, rolling out a plan\u2014\u201Cwith a number of initiatives included in the Taxation Bill being introduced this month and coming into effect on 1 April.\u201D That is pretty clear to me. Rod Drury goes on to say: \u201CThese initiatives will improve cash flow, as well as reduce compliance costs and effort for many small businesses.\u201D That is exactly what we are hearing up and down the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ELast night I spoke to the Ahuriri rotary club. The message I received from the many small-business owners present was that the package of small-business initiatives was definitely a step in the right direction. No doubt many of those men and women are facing tough times right now. As I have said previously tonight, they know that there is no silver bullet. There is not one fix that will turn this economy around. As John Key said, it will be a rolling maul\u2014a positive rolling maul that will go forward as we roll out a range of initiatives. These rotary club members were pleased to see a Government that has some real empathy with the problems they face and is actually getting on with the job of addressing the issues before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe Hawke\u2019s Bay economy is an export-driven economy. Over the last 20 years we have diversified our export markets to China, South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, and Indonesia. When we read figures such as those used by Rod Oram in Sunday\u2019s newspaper, we see that many of our key trading partners have projected economic growth worse than our own, and we know that it will be a tough ride for the next few years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EBusinesses like Apollo Pac Ltd, Crasborns, and Bostocks in Hawke\u2019s Bay, between themselves and the growers they support, employ hundreds, if not thousands, of workers in the Hawke\u2019s Bay region. They know it will be tough; they know it will be hard. These men and women are already looking at their profit and loss statements and their balance sheets, and they are going through them line by line to see how they can make a difference to their business, how they can reduce costs in their business, and how they can be in a position to get through this recession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThose businesses will be there, because they know they will get through this recession and they want to be in the best position to come out with strong growth, and they are looking for a Government that will be doing the same. That is what we are doing with this rolling maul of initiatives. I am proud to stand here today in support of this Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill and the initiatives it implements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00227b5baffebfe64363a59aa188333a60d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b5baffebfe64363a59aa188333a60d9\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E The previous speaker, Chris Tremain, talked about the great National rolling maul. I refer him to a learned business person called Brian Gaynor. Whether one is on this side of the Chamber or in Government, I think most people would say that Brian Gaynor is an eminent business person and commentator. He said this in the Weekend Herald of 7 February, when comparing the National Government\u2019s effort\u2014the so-called package that will save us from a deepening recession and an international economic crisis, referred to by the previous speaker as a rolling maul\u2014with what our trans-Tasman neighbours are doing: \u201C\u2026 our transtasman neighbours are planning to take the direct and aggressive route to the try line while we have a slow moving maul with little idea who is carrying the ball and which way the maul will move next.\u201D I think that is probably a damn good quote that sums this up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIf we compare what we are doing here in New Zealand with our Government\u2014and I am not talking just about the dollar for dollar, head to head quantum, I am talking about the aggressive action that, say, the Americans are taking\u2014I point out that it is very interesting that Mr Key today, as he did in the election campaign, likened himself to President Barack Obama. It was very interesting. Barack Obama was elected about the same time as Mr Key\u2014within days\u2014and as President-elect, before he had any constitutional power to do anything, he had announced, planned, and began jawboning, lobbying, and gathering support for his aggressive economic package, and its second phase, before he even had his hands on the constitutional levers to do anything. Then, when he was elected, he was in the process of punching it through. He did not wait because, unlike Mr Key, the rest of the world knows that the economic crisis coming towards us\u2014the likes of which no one in any country can predict the outcome of, and probably the depth of which we have never seen in our lifetime\u2014is like a tsunami. We have a couple of hours warning that it is on its way. We have a choice. We either start to prepare, sandbag, and do what we are supposed to do, or, like Mr Key and this Government, we wait until the wave rolls in and we measure the height of the water and we hope that it will not be over our necks. We can make a big international comparison between what we are doing and what we are not doing in New Zealand and what they are doing in the United States. As I say, before Barack Obama could do anything constitutionally, he had planned, lobbied, brought up his list of infrastructure projects, costed them, and got the show on the road so that when he was sworn in 3 months later, he was able to move. Mr Key, of course, was elected at the same time, and 3 months later he was on the beach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ELet us look at Australia. Let us not talk mark to mark dollar figures, but let us see what the Australians have done. They have been aggressive. They are running the ball up, as Mr Gaynor says, to get the country across the line. He makes a very interesting observation: \u201CAustralian initiatives are mainly directed at low-income individuals and families because they are far more likely to spend additional income. By contrast, the National Government\u2019s revised tax cuts are more beneficial to the well-off who have a greater propensity to save rather than spend.\u201D So I do not quite know how we get fiscal stimulus if we fund those who can afford it and their greatest motivation in life is to put it in the bank and save it, because they can actually afford to do so. We can compare Kevin Rudd\u2019s package, which is aggressive, and running the ball up over the try line, to the sort of rolling maul of this Government, where he funds the bottom end and this crowd funds the top end and there is no strategy there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ELet us look at Gordon Brown\u2019s second package\u2014identified projects, which I think they call \u201Cshovel-ready projects\u201D, all ready to go with money going through the system. And what do we have here in New Zealand? National says there is vision. I quote again from one of its own people, Bill English, who said in the press on 6 February\u2014and if this sums up vision I do not know what does\u2014when he was talking about the Australian and US Federal Governments\u2019 packages: \u201CWe hope it works because anything that helps Australia\u2019s economy helps us.\u201D I agree with that. The report goes on to say: \u201CMr English said the best outcome New Zealand could hope for was stimulus not only in Australia but also in the United States and China. \u2018These three countries are all on the go.\u2019 \u201D He was right, and he is right. They are all on the go with aggressive stimulus packages, fiscally responsible stimulus packages, and his strategy is \u201CLet\u2019s hope they get it right because the old tsunami in a positive way might wash over Australia, wash over the UK, wash over the US, and maybe touch us in some sort of positive way. The stimulus might flow through New Zealand and help us. Let us just hope it works.\u201D That is the depth of the National Party vision and I quote from the Minister of Finance himself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo what have we got tonight? We have a tax bill, and others have outlined many similarities to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275caada739654f6b8a595459540fbfdc\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: You are supporting it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231ed8abf24f44b34ac085abda02d0d40\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes indeed, and we will support it, but the challenge for that member and his ilk is to put some strategy around this great vision, which only the National Party knows about\u2014no one else knows about it. And 3 months down the track we have a great unveiling in the next day or so, whatever it is, of the great infrastructure plan, which will form some sort of centrepiece and we know, of course, that the great infrastructure plan, like many of the things they have done in this bill and others is simply a regurgitation of what we did in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe first point is home insulation. Do members remember that? We had $1 billion put up for home insulation. What was the first thing that the new Government did? It killed that. Now we hear, I think it was in response to the Green co-leader\u2019s question, Mr Key saying that we would be quite happy when they announce their infrastructure package because there will be a bit of green stuff in there. They say that they will do a bit of stuff on home insulation. National members are not the authors of original thought on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224369764100234ad8b537eaf514a45e14\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Or anything else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280ab42dc752c424c801ce85a7dea4e0d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague is right. Compare us mark to mark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr English likes to say that we cannot compete; dollar for dollar what they are doing in Australia we cannot do here. That maybe the case, but in Australia, in the UK, and in the US they have a plan. In Australia, in the UK, and in the US they have a strategy that is written down. It is public, it is working, money is injecting into the economy, and jobs are being saved. Some people, sadly, will still end up on the scrap heap, but those countries are determined to minimise the economic damage that this international crisis will do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut here Mr Key waits as the tsunami comes toward him to test the level of the water. What did Mr Key do when he got back after Christmas, during the great 100 days? Apart from a nice holiday in the sun, and we are all entitled to that, there was the great announcement, as Ms King said when he rushed back to face criticism from the media about the fact that the Government was doing nothing, that\u2014and I could not believe it when I read it in the paper\u2014a summit of five Ministers would meet urgently, and with Gerry it might have been six and a half, who knows, but five whole Ministers would meet on a Monday. It raises the question, as I said to Simon Power, about what they call a Cabinet committee and what they call a whole Cabinet meeting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eedd4da4d15c4a9d82d1707312b6c5df\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: A million man march.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022212da2ae22134fa7a157b2bce770f62a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: That might be a huge seismic political event as Cabinet meets on a Monday. Give us a break. I say to the Government that the people are not silly. It is a five-Minister summit\u2014with the Minister of Labour suddenly dropped off the list and that Minister is supposed to be responsible for generating employment. And then we have a M\u0101ori employment hui\u2014an interesting concept. Then we have an employment summit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis all adds up to a lot of talk about what we should maybe do, when other countries are implementing their economic plan as we speak and as they have done for months and months and months. I would have thought that the new Government would go to a summit to say to business people: \u201CThis is what we were elected to do. This is our plan that we have been formulating for years, months, minutes, or whatever, and we want your endorsement of the plan, we want your buy-in, and we want your support.\u201D But oh no, this employment summit, apparently, will come up with new ideas; it will ask people what the Government should do; it is chaired by Mark Weldon, head of the New Zealand Exchange\u2014an interesting person to chair it\u2014rather than the Minister of Labour, the Minister of Finance, and the Minister for Economic Development saying: \u201CHere is our bold vision, here is our strategy, here is where we want you to walk with us.\u201D No, it will be: \u201CCan you give us an idea, a strategy, or something because we are bereft of them.\u201D I say, finally, to those members that if they leave New Zealand in the lurch they will put us deeper into recession because of their inaction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00220ecd58506b704dc194e1ec5d75799613\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ecd58506b704dc194e1ec5d75799613\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to rise to speak in support of the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill, because this bill contains provisions that are what good law should be. By the agreement of this entire House, which is voting in support of the bill, they are necessary and they will help. This bill is about getting behind the very people who will pull our economy through these difficult times. Small and medium sized businesses are the heart of the engine room. We have to\u2014and we will\u2014do everything we can to assist them, work with them, incentivise them, and encourage them, and this bill is the first part of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIf one summarised this bill in a couple of words, one would say that it is about cash flow and it is about compliance. I have been both a business owner and an employer, and I have advised many, many businesses. If one talks to businesses they will say that the things that help them relate to cash flow and compliance, particularly when times are tough. Cash flow now is not only being hurt by the hard economic times, but is being doubly squeezed by the credit crunch, with banks more and more reluctant to lend. Even good strong businesses need help with cash flow. If we look at just one provision\u2014the getting rid of the 5 percent uplift in provisional tax\u2014we see that it will put another quarter of a billion dollars back into business accounts where it needs to be. That alone will have the significant effect of helping businesses manage their cash flow\u2014and that is just one measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about compliance let us remember that it is not just about compliance cost; it is also about compliance time. So many businesses spend a huge amount of unproductive time working through Government red tape and bureaucracy. This bill\u2014and I commend the Minister of Revenue for the bill\u2014goes a significant way towards reducing some of that compliance time and money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI will mention a couple of the provisions that, in that regard, really are highlights for me. They are ones that perhaps have not been talked about so much, but are the ones that as a business owner I thought would be a real help to these businesses. They are about GST, particularly the increase in the threshold at which tax payable must be accounted for on an invoice basis rather than a payments basis. This may not jump out at people who have not run businesses, but I can tell them that if they have a small business and they hit that threshold and suddenly have to account for GST on money they do not even have, it hurts and it is hard. By moving that threshold from $1.3 million to $2 million, a significant number of businesses will not have to deal with that extra cash-flow hurdle. That will make a big difference and, by itself, will make businesses viable that might not otherwise have been viable. When we add that into the increase in the number of businesses that will now be able to file on a 6-monthly basis and the number of extra businesses that can choose whether they wish to register for GST, we see that we will start to make real inroads into compliance costs on small business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dfd0f8c5bdb4dbc8ebfdaa24b20a7f8\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Has the National Party paid its GST yet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a79c38d9ca464adab5963e777e48fc6e\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Labour members can huff and puff all they like, but these things will help and will keep businesses viable that would not have been viable under Labour\u2019s rule. That is the long and the short of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI am happy to support this bill because it will buffer a lot of businesses from the worst of this recession. It will make that difference. It is not a silver bullet; we have never said it is a silver bullet, nor have we ever said that it is the full extent of what we will do. But it will make a big difference. It will keep businesses alive that would not have been alive under Labour\u2019s rules\u2014let us remember that. I am proud to support this bill, because the National Government is doing what it said it would do: getting in behind the engine room of this economy. We are telling business that we are on their side. For once, businesses are hearing from the Government that it is here to make their lives easier. This bill is a good start in that direction and I am pleased to support it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u002296ba827797d147988fe472a9e6e497b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296ba827797d147988fe472a9e6e497b7\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill be referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 23 March 2009, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting, except during oral questions, and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f5827cfe8e9f46038610afde159b7c76\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 78\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002278928671fa9a499582e2a72eb743acd4\u0022\u003EGangs and Organised Crime Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb7d0009c5d444e78d3031dda468f1d6\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022661b4d0168024ab0bc8aef4ed90f78ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022661b4d0168024ab0bc8aef4ed90f78ce\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill be referred to the Law and Order Committee for consideration, and for the committee to report back to allow enactment this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EIn August 2007 I announced that if National became the next Government it would make gang membership an aggravating factor in sentencing, strengthen the law that makes it an offence to be a member of a criminal organisation, make it easier for the police to intercept gang communications, and strengthen the ability of the police to remove and storm gang fortifications. The then Labour Government then revealed that it had developed a similar bill, which dealt with only the first two of those measures. That bill took another 11 months to be introduced in the House. The delay followed, in our view, an even longer hiatus in the previous Government\u2019s policy to combat gangs that started in 2005, and was broken only, it seemed, by the drive-by shooting of a Wanganui toddler in May 2007. The lesson is that no Government can afford to get complacent when it comes to gangs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe Gangs and Organised Crime Bill, which I have brought before the House tonight, fulfils the promise National made in 2007, and its first reading today fulfils the Government\u2019s commitment to introduce the bill in its first 100 days. The bill amends section 98A of the Crimes Act 1961 to increase the penalty for participation in an organised criminal group, from a maximum of up to 5 years\u2019 imprisonment to a maximum of up to 10 years\u2019 imprisonment. The average prison sentence for this offence between 2004 and 2007 was 2 years. That does not adequately reflect the culpability of those gang leaders who organised serious criminal activity, such as methamphetamine manufacturing and distribution, without directly offending themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe other side to this issue is the rate of successful convictions for participation in a criminal organisation under section 98A, which has historically been very low. From 2004 to 2007 there were 339 prosecutions, but only 19 convictions\u2014a total of 5 percent. There are a number of reasons for this, in fairness, the first of which is the complexity of this provision. The second reason is the high evidential burden placed on the prosecution to prove the offence. The bill currently in its first reading before the House draws on case law to clarify the evidential requirements under that section, which should ease the burden placed on the Crown to prove that an accused participates in an organised criminal group. It is intended to result in more successful prosecutions for participation in an organised criminal group, without criminalising mere association\u2014an extremely difficult thing to legislate for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E The bill also requires the sentencing judge to take into account any offending that is committed due to involvement with such a group as a specific aggravating factor at sentencing. Combined with a doubling of the penalty under section 98A of the Crimes Act and changes to the legal threshold, this amendment to the Sentencing Act should increase the penalties handed down to gangs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EHowever, this bill is not limited to the punishment of gang members. It also provides the police with tools to apprehend those who commit organised crime. The bill expands in two ways the ability of the police to undertake surveillance of gang communications. The first is by providing specific authority for the police to apply for an interception warrant to investigate the offence of participation in an organised criminal group. That, in turn, will disrupt organised criminal groups by capturing those who organise or facilitate illegal activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill lowers the general threshold for those offences that can be used as the basis for interception warrants, from those attracting at least 10 years in prison to those attracting 7 years in prison, or more. This means that the police will be able to obtain interception warrants for a wider range of offences\u2014such as car conversion, for example\u2014and it sends a message to gangs that the net on their criminal activities is widening. This should enhance the prospects of successful prosecutions under section 98A of the Crimes Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe bill also provides that a removal order may be sought from a District Court in order to remove intimidating structures such as gang forts. For years fortified gang premises have concealed potential offending. The law currently allows the police or territorial authorities to seek court authorisation to remove these structures under the Local Government Act if they are connected to criminal activity or are intended to cause injury. The previous Government rejected law changes that would make it easier for the police to destroy gang fortifications, arguing that the current law \u201Cappears sufficiently broad\u201D, yet it could not say how many gang forts had been stormed, and, strangely, in 2007 the law was removed as a key operational practice from the police statement of intent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThis Government argues that gang forts are not only a threat to public safety because they potentially cloak illegal activity, but also their very presence is threatening and makes a neighbourhood feel less safe. The Gangs and Organised Crime Bill will, therefore, give additional powers to have these structures removed if they are intimidating in nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EGang activity is insidious and, therefore, it requires a comprehensive, integrated response. The Gangs and Organised Crime Bill is but part of that response, by its providing more effective investigative powers and strengthening penalties. Although this bill is one of the first actions of this Government, it will not be our final action on gangs. I am determined that if we have the honour of serving the people for as long as the previous administration did, we will not wait until 10 days before the election to announce our sole law and order policy\u2014which was, in the previous administration\u2019s case, to establish a commission of inquiry on gangs. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00224c5fa40f30884efe8ef62af0743c056d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c5fa40f30884efe8ef62af0743c056d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Let me say from the outset that on this side of the House we share many of the Minister of Justice\u2019s views in respect of the insidious nature of gangs. They are repugnant, their activities are repugnant, and the negative impact they put upon families, young people, and innocent members of our community needs to be dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThat being said, we will support the referral of the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill to the Law and Order Committee and give it close scrutiny. I have to say, though, as an aside, that there is an opportunity during a first reading debate, which we are now engaged in, to actually debate a bill. That is predicated on the fact that all members of Parliament, in Government and in Opposition, have access to the legislation so that they can read, chew over, discuss, and analyse it, and then make a constructive contribution on it to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EPhil Goff and others on this side of the House have said that as an Opposition, in respect of this bill, we will be constructive where things work and are appropriate, because it does a number of positive things. But I say to the Minister through you, Mr Assistant Speaker, that to drop a bill on the Table\u2014and I think this is the fourth or fifth bill since this Government has been elected\u2014an hour or less before a debate gives no one the opportunity to actually analyse it. I suspect that maybe the National Party members have had a chance to look at this bill\u2014and Mr Borrows might be able to confirm or deny this\u2014but no one else in the House has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292d7a8ab47e343288cea709206b2410f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ed360b604e64cb18dd139d7050aa87a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister says that is not true. Mr Borrows might be able to confirm that. The best we have been able to get, after a couple of phone conversations in the last 24 hours, is for the Minister to produce a weighty document of one page and about three lines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fb2b1c138cb4ad59507dbdc4f1f72c6\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: That was for Gerry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adeb5ad4a47645e7a5945efdb942ad14\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Quite possibly. No, it is not in big print. A summary of one page and three lines has been distributed to members of the Opposition, and it is exceptionally vague. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe summary talks about how in this gangs legislation there will be additional powers, as the Minister has illustrated, to have gang fortifications removed if they are intimidating in nature, but the summary the Minister delivered to us this morning does not even define what intimidating means. I have read it. I had a quick look at it as soon as it came out, as have my colleagues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister through you, Mr Assistant Speaker, if this is such a big issue within the community\u2014and it is\u2014and if this is such flagship legislation for the Government, why on earth he did not do what is normal: put it on the Table for 3 days and allow all members of Parliament to actually have a number of statutory days, as they are entitled to, to read and analyse the bill so that we could make a contribution on it. He says his own caucus has not even seen the legislation. I am sure Mr Borrows has a particular view about that. He will not articulate it tonight, I am sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe question is why the Minister dropped the bill on the Table with an hour\u2019s notice, unless he himself is not convinced that it will work, unless there is something hidden in it that we do not know about\u2014but that will be unveiled at the select committee; he can take my word for that\u2014or unless it is a case of a rushed, \u201Ctweak a bit here, tweak a bit there\u201D draft of a political pamphlet to try to convince the people that the Government is getting tough on crime, as it did with the Bail Act, when actually there is not a lot to this bill. The select committee will examine all those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that he is making a habit of doing this. He has two other bills on the Table tonight\u2014the DNA bill and the $50 an offence bill\u2014that members of Parliament have been given no time to scrutinise. I think 60 minutes is what we have had. And we have to ask why that is, if these are such critical issues to the community\u2014and they are. Maybe the Government does not want the scrutiny, but the public will get the chance to scrutinise the bill. We are assured of that, because Opposition members will\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9c9251a2032442f8363ee3d1c075e21\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s going to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293aedc4428ad4a389ff0fabb40e52d7d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry I could not hear the interjection from \u201CParis Hilton\u201D over there, but he did interject on me. We on this side of the House will ensure that the public get the right to have input on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Minister talked about Labour\u2019s record in Government. Well, I will give the Minister a few statistics. In 2007 police made 6,134 arrests of persons with identified gang connections and brought over 26,000 charges against them. That was in 2007. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Minister said there are a number of complex issues in this bill. For instance, he said there is complexity in many of the provisions. He said, quite rightly, that legislating for association is exceptionally difficult. Yet he will not give anybody any time within this House, in this first reading, to actually scrutinise it. One wonders whether he was drafting in the dead of night last night to try to cobble the bill together. This is not the way to make decent law. For urgency to be called on the first reading of a bill that is being sent to a select committee is quite remarkable and strange. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will give the Minister another couple of items on the last Government\u2019s record in power. It was the Labour Government, of course, that was increasing prison sentence lengths for those belonging to criminal gangs and was improving police surveillance powers over those gangs through the Organised Crime (Penalties and Sentencing) Bill, which was awaiting its second reading. It was when Labour was in power that the police announced that the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of New Zealand would receive 35 more staffing positions, bringing it up to a total of 58. During the last parliamentary term, 1,250 additional police staff were added. The police now have 234 dedicated staff in organised crime units made up of 40 squads around New Zealand. The Minister might deride and try to put the boot in to the last Government\u2019s record\u2014I suppose that is his job as he sees it\u2014but the increase in resources and staffing on the ground, with 40 squads to deal with organised crime, has had a real and practical effect. It is at the coalface, not in this Chamber, where one actually fights crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn Government we introduced the Search and Surveillance Powers Bill to allow for more explicit powers for enforcement agencies to search computers and seize electronic data, and streamlined examination orders for law enforcement agencies. We know that gangs are not what they were 20 or 30 years ago. In some cases the baseball bats have been replaced by computers, cellphones and text messaging, P and other drugs, and the use of young people to traffic those drugs and substances. Through organised crime and money-laundering there are now more sophisticated ways to attempt to mask and dispose of those funds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that we will be constructive in respect of this bill, but he is getting a reputation. I invite him or one of his colleagues to give us an explanation. Somebody may correct me, but I do not think there has been a Government or a Minister that has dropped more bills in the House with zero notice to members of Parliament\u2014including, now he tells us, his own caucus. There have been three bills tonight and there were two before Christmas\u2014that makes five. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d3c64dccf2c419b937ca4b3bfe2bd88\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: His nickname used to be \u201CDue Process\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229084a94d58e44e5ebe6bd44aee47c5a4\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, well, he is a lawyer. I believe that he probably agrees with due process, but I would be very interested to know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cf3ba6a7130449e8b4a3a329dde9bec\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve got to catch up on 9 years\u20149 years of nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebe51a3545d94dbea0c34af707f19968\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Goudie is chair of the Law and Order Committee, which this bill will proceed to. I would be very interested to get an explanation. I say to Mr Power that I think the House is owed an explanation as to why these bills have been dropped on all members of Parliament with zero notice. If he wants an Opposition to be constructive, then he has to play the game and be fair, and he has to allow for due process in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI conclude by saying that I agree that gangs, as with all organised crime, are a scourge on our society. I agree that if we can toughen up and use new measures, then we should implement those as long as they work and are practical. Before Christmas my leader, Annette King\u2014the deputy leader\u2014and I had interaction with the South Australian Government, and we have been looking very carefully at its gang legislation. The Attorney-General of South Australia has worked for 3 years with the Standing Committee of Attorneys-General\u2014which is the Commonwealth Attorney-General\u2019s group\u2014in formulating that anti-gang legislation. It appears from initial reports and from having talked to the Premier as recently as last week that it is working, and working well. So we are looking at innovative ideas that have been developed very recently across the Tasman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI think even Mike Rann, the Premier of South Australia, and his Attorney-General, whom I know well, gave the Opposition in their Parliament the courtesy and respect of due process to examine that legislation, which indeed is quite controversial in Australia. It deals very heavily with anti-association issues in that non-association orders can be put upon individuals who are in deemed organisations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe will support this bill, but I say to the Minister that it would be nice and it would be appropriate to give members an explanation\u2014and I am sure the community listening would also like an explanation\u2014as to why these bills have been dropped on the Table with no notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00228671812a9be6468a834ac3720a1a3b4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228671812a9be6468a834ac3720a1a3b4a\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the opportunity to take a call in support of the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill. It is interesting to hear the member who has just resumed his seat, Clayton Cosgrove, talk about this legislation\u2019s being \u201Cdropped\u201D upon the House. He has a very short memory if he can not think back to the emissions trading scheme legislation\u2014that hallmark legislation from the last Parliament\u2014and the 750 amendments that were dropped on the Finance and Expenditure Committee 2 days before the bill was due back before the House. One thousand amendments were dropped on the Committee of the whole House, and by that night the bill was law. That was not due process, and that was not giving people time to consider legislation before it was debated in the House, so that comment was pretty rich coming from him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI want to focus the mind of the House on a couple of other things. One of them is that next Friday, on 20 February, is the sentencing of the offenders convicted of the murder of Jhia Te Tua. Next Friday the murderers of Jhia Te Tua will be sentenced in the court just across the road here\u2014the High Court in Wellington. The legacy of that tragedy\u2014and thank goodness there is one\u2014is that it dragged the Labour Government kicking and screaming into a position where it was prepared to deal with gangs. In 2004 the police national gang strategy lapsed and was not replaced until the horrific death of Jhia Te Tua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EOut of that tragedy came legislation that we debated in the House last year that made a number of proposals. Some of them are replicated within the bill now before the House. So the House has actually previously debated this issue. We were on opposite sides of the House but we were generally in accord. We debated, for instance, the prospect of amending section 98A of the Crimes Act and how that would affect surveillance on gangs. We covered some of the points and we indicated to the House the National Party\u2019s position; this legislation was on its way when we became the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThis legislation is crucial to allowing the police to move and take proactive steps in respect of combating gangs, as is the legislative change proposed to the Sentencing Act. If a person commits a crime as a gang member, no matter what it is, that person will get more of a penalty than if that person commits it as \u201CJoe Citizen\u201D. We need some real disincentives for people belonging to gangs, as well as offending as part of gangs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe third piece of legislation that will be amended is the Local Government Act. The amendments will make it easier for the police to storm fortifications and rip them down. Sunlight is a fantastic disinfectant, as is the ability to look inside those gang headquarters to see and listen to what they are up to. Police will be able to prosecute gang members for those offences and get more severe penalties when they are eventually convicted. That ability is paramount in the mind of this Government and I am pleased and proud to be part of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcbf207cb3994837b2f40f885d897338\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcbf207cb3994837b2f40f885d897338\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E As my colleague the Hon Clayton Cosgrove has said, Labour will be supporting the bill\u2019s referral to the select committee. We are all very pleased that it is going to a select committee, because of course the bills we looked at before Christmas were not given the opportunity for the public scrutiny they ought to have been given. I do not know why the Government somehow seems to think that it is OK to introduce measures because they have been, perhaps, scrutinised in a different environment and under a different set of circumstances, or when they have not been subject to the degree of scrutiny one would expect of bills with significant changes to the law. I do not think it is a very good practice to do that, but this bill is going to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EMy colleague makes a very good point, which is that when a bill is introduced under urgency it does not sit on the Table for the 3 days it normally would. Therefore, there is not the opportunity for the scrutiny and the discussion we all like to have in order to understand the particular features of a particular measure. I do not think that that is unreasonable\u2014and the member on the other side of the House might laugh\u2014but what goes around comes around, I guess. I do not want to enter into a debate as to who did what, when, how, and why, because of course we will always find examples where different Governments have taken a particular approach. But I am saying that when we change the criminal law\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cee9cc3eeb04d1480bd431814407bb1\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Or not do anything for 9 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228993e487e55945b987e38d73152739b4\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, we did not introduce a lot of laws under urgency. For us to do that was on a very rare occasion indeed. Most of the laws we introduced over those 9 years\u2014and this will definitely stand some scrutiny and checking by the Bills Office\u2014lay on the Table for the 3 statutory days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a493c51846c94bdeb0401883818655d7\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: And went to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1c9d98d6dcd4304a44a413f4440256c\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: And they went to a select committee. This bill is going to a select committee, but I do not think that anyone should completely underestimate the lack of opportunity for an Opposition to properly scrutinise the content of the legislation. I honestly believe that it is nice to see the pre-Christmas desire to get things passed through all stages somehow now taking a back seat, but I wonder whether Mr Key is actually regretting his \u201C100 days of action\u201D promise, because those who are interested in the process of Government are very concerned at what are smoke-and-mirror measures so that action is seen to be done rather than actually being done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EGangs have been a problem that successive Governments have had to confront ever since I have been here. I have been a member of Parliament since 1990, and I remember, in that first term in office, the huge debates that were held, with Jim Bolger as the Prime Minister of New Zealand and Mike Moore as the Leader of the Opposition constantly battling over the issue of the then Government\u2019s response to gangs. So I do not think anyone should pretend that this is a brand new issue that suddenly somehow needs to be addressed immediately after the holding of an election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EBut I think that the Government has failed to recognise that many gangs have fundamentally changed the way they operate. The underlying criminality, of course, behind their activities has not changed at all, but a lot more gang members are wearing suits today than in the 1990s. They do not all hide behind intimidating gang-like structures, but I can tell members that where they do live is equally impenetrable. Any law to rip down gang structures does not actually give us access to the property, as Chester Borrows somehow seems to think. What it does do is deal with the outer vision of the problem without dealing with the underlying problem. It does not matter whether they are hidden behind intimidating gang-like structures or whether they are hidden from public view, because their activities are essentially underground and they want to stay out of view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe amount of money involved in the trade in P far exceeds anything these gangs were ever able to extract from marijuana\u2014way more. Why do members think gang members are suddenly wearing suits, and driving around in cars instead of on the traditional Harley Davidsons? It is essentially because they are not out there causing the kinds of public mayhem they may have been involved in, in the past\u2014some of the gangs are, but many are not\u2014and the reason they are not out there causing those kinds of public mayhem is that they do not want the close police scrutiny that that obviously causes. The reason they do not want that is that it is far more lucrative for them to be involved in those underground nefarious activities than it is to be exposed to the kind of scrutiny the police would bring to bear. Gangs want their customers to be able to come and go as they please, and they want to stay out of the public eye. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThat is one of the reasons why the previous Government said it would establish a commission of inquiry into organised gangs. It was not to be the starting point of the Government\u2019s policy on organised crime. Rather, it was necessary to wrap up the work we had already done by bringing in the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of New Zealand. We had introduced new search and surveillance measures. We had anti - money laundering provisions in front of the House and further strengthening of the proceeds of crime legislation, not to mention the Organised Crime (Penalties and Sentencing) Bill, which is on the Order Paper awaiting its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E I ask the Minister why he does not progress that bill now\u2014immediately. We are introducing a new bill when we have a bill already on the Order Paper that could proceed through all of its stages. It has been to a select committee. That level of scrutiny has been done. It is a bill that we could see immediate action on, but we see a Government really wanting to be seen to be doing things rather than actually doing things. So I do not really buy the argument that this bill is the immediate priority when we have bills already in front of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThere is another bill that the Minister, I know, has been supportive of, which is the Sale and Supply of Liquor and Liquor Enforcement Bill. That is something that could be progressed to a select committee. But I was surprised and shocked\u2014stunned, really\u2014to find that it was not in the list of bills that we were going to deal with in this urgency motion, because it feels to me that if we are looking at the whole issue of crime, then we must see that alcohol lies at the heart of many of the challenges that are faced in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill, which we are discussing at the moment, as I have said\u2014and as I think the Minister himself has accepted\u2014many of the policies were in place with bills that the previous Government put in place. But it is really of concern to me that we have legislation brought to the House when we have not had time to give it the consideration it deserves. Yes, the bill will go to a select committee and, yes, it will then be subject to the kind of scrutiny we want, but I am slightly concerned that the Government seems to be addressing what the bill looks like from the outside. The bill almost feels like window dressing to me and it does not really tackle the depth of the problems we face with gangs. That is why I thought a commission of inquiry was such a positive suggestion by the previous Government, because it really would have enabled the depth of scrutiny that simply is not available when we look just at the very narrow parameters of a bill that has been introduced into Parliament. So I encourage the Government, in the context of this bill, to reconsider its position on the previous Government\u2019s announcement of a commission of inquiry. I do not personally think it would do any harm to have a commission of inquiry into organised criminal gangs, in the context of proceeding with this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3434463b2e24920822bb46c846dbf69\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: All hui, no doey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31f725aeb5f45239f6cb7d8e35a1b2a\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: The member Sandra Goudie chips in and I think proves the ignorance of the argument, which is that there is a complete lack of understanding of the nature of the changes that have occurred in criminal activity. I think that the Labour Government finally really came on board with that with the establishment of the Organised and Financial Crime Agency, and by understanding that the establishment of the Serious Fraud Office really took away those police officers who were able, at a very high level, to investigate organised crime into the sphere of financial crime. There has been a real disservice done by this incoming Government in not pursuing that particular policy of the previous Government, because I think it was on the right track\u2014a real beef-up of the resources of the police in this area, and a focus on what is now the serious financial and organised crime associated with gangs who have pulled themselves apart from the old gang culture that I think we would all recognise, but that now is very much a more insidious and pervasive part of our society. So I ask the Government to consider that in the context of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u002229160b1dbd7e4395a92045ad669c1b3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229160b1dbd7e4395a92045ad669c1b3f\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to stand and speak on the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill and to support my most excellent colleagues the Hon Simon Power and Chester Borrows. I am totally supportive of our Government\u2019s policy on gangs, which includes tougher penalties for membership of a criminal gang, expanding police surveillance powers in respect of gang communications, and providing greater powers to remove gang fortifications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EAs chairperson of the Law and Order Committee I am delighted to hear that the Opposition is supporting the bill and is supportive of the content of the bill. We are looking forward to sharing those members\u2019 expertise and knowledge in this respect and to progressing this bill to its final conclusion: to become very worthy legislation, totally supporting the police and the very important work they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EIn providing the police with these extra powers we can see them being able to take a greater stance against gangs. An example is their success in terms of their surveillance of the Killer Bees. The police have practically decimated that gang. I look forward to seeing this legislation being implemented so that they can do the same with the remaining gangs in this country. I look forward to the bill having the Opposition\u2019s support in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022699b939c8cf2400a85139a9b3df94d3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022699b939c8cf2400a85139a9b3df94d3f\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I will address the matter of urgency, and I know that other members have done that this evening. The Gangs and Organised Crime Bill has not been made available to members of Parliament in such time that there can be any serious consideration of its provisions. In addition, it has not been made available to the public. The Green Party believes that this is an abuse of the parliamentary process and cannot be justified under any circumstances, especially given that we have heard that the Government members have had access to the legislation. It has been available to others in this House but not to Opposition members. That shows the lack of transparency that this Government is prepared to engage in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIt also shows a high level of mistrust of the public. The public are entitled to inspect the legislation that its legislators are to debate, and they expect us to make some serious consideration of its provisions. But for as long as the National Government refuses to make the legislation available even to the public, the public themselves are shut out from being able to understand the issues in the legislation and to make a contribution through their local representatives. It is a disgrace for a Government to have such a lack of transparency to the public, let alone to the parliamentary process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EGang violence is extremely serious in this country, as it is everywhere. The community deserves to be protected. The community deserves to be safe in their homes and in their communities. There have been some terrible recent cases\u2014for example, the man stabbed by a prospect while trying to protect a woman from violence, and the young man stabbed because of the colour of his kura T-shirt. There are other cases that are very well known and there are many other cases that Parliament and perhaps even the police do not know about\u2014terrible acts of violence and crime that affect communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EOne of the concerns the Green Party has about this is that it is the working class communities that suffer the most from gang violence. It is not the wealthy who suffer but the working class\u2014those who are already vulnerable and who are already on low incomes and have few resources to deal with the impact of this crime on them. These are the communities that have the least protection from the State, especially when it comes to economic and structural violence committed by the State. They also have to suffer from this violence committed by members of their own community, sometimes even their own families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Green Party will welcome any provisions that address the underlying causes of gang attraction for young people: poverty, under-education, and disempowerment. We welcome any provision that reduces violence committed by gangs. We welcome any provision that will enable the rehabilitation of gang members who are currently in prison, in order to reduce the recidivism rate. We support any provisions that will support the families of gang members\u2014the children and partners of gang members\u2014to break out of the violence and poverty cycles into which they have been trapped by structural, social, and personal circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ESo what does this legislation do? Well, let us have a look at a couple of the provisions. Of the two most significant provisions in the legislation\u2014as far as we can tell, given the very short time we have had to look at it\u2014one is about making interception warrants more readily available to the police. They are reducing the sentence provisions so that with crimes for which there could be a sentence of 7 or more years the police would be able to get an interception warrant if there is a suspicion that those crimes are being committed by an organised criminal group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIt is very difficult, without any evidence and without any time, to assess the extent to which this will make an appreciable difference to the powers of the police to access interception warrants. We simply do not know. It depends on the crimes that are involved. We simply have not had time to investigate that properly. There is very little useful information in the Government\u2019s own papers. Those papers are very much policy papers. They are not really legislative papers. So we simply do not know. We will maintain an open mind about that when the bill goes to the select committee, which is a good thing, and will look at the usefulness or effectiveness of those provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe other issue of serious concern, and which could be effective, but about which we will have a discussion, is increasing the term of imprisonment from 5 years to 10 years for those participating in an organised criminal group. First of all, that raises a question around groups or political organisations that are considered by the police to be criminal because they are subversive, or legitimate critics of political thought. We have had that problem before with the T\u016Bhoe raids. A whole community was raided, identified as a terrible criminal community, but with absolutely no justification. Photos of children and families were splattered across the newspapers, and people were seriously damaged by the impact of that disgusting and disgraceful behaviour by the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ENow we are giving the courts even more powers in terms of sentencing for members of those communities. Do we want the police to have that power? There is a big question about that. They have abused it in the past; why would they not abuse it again, if they find a community they do not like? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn addition, this provision will increase the prison muster. There will be increased costs on the taxpayer, and there simply has not been any proper cost-effectiveness analysis of the impact of increasing the prison muster, versus other kinds of sentencing opportunities or rehabilitation that will reduce recidivism and be more cost-effective. That would be a very useful piece of work to be done\u2014particularly, by, say, the Auditor-General, who is very good at doing that kind of work, as we all know. But there is no evidence that it is cost-effective to increase the prison muster. Worst of all, simply increasing the length of a sentence will only increase recidivism. All of the research and evidence in New Zealand show that the longer that people are in prison, the more likely they will commit crime when they come out, and that the crime escalates. If people go in for a long time on a fairly minor charge, they are more likely to come out and commit a much higher-level crime, particularly crimes around violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIf that is the case, if we have proof of that, why would the Government want to increase sentences and simply increase the chance of recidivism, and increase the likelihood that those persons will reoffend and that their reoffending will be more serious? It makes no sense. It is detrimental to community safety simply to impose longer sentences without other interventions at the same time. None of those matters is set out in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIf the causes of crime are not addressed, we will continue to have major crime issues in this country, and particularly around gangs because of the community connection, and the power and respect that often those people engender in their communities. Poverty is the single-biggest driver that leads young people to gangs, and in gangs young people can see the working class, older men with power and with respect. In gangs the young are provided with a comparatively safe environment in which to develop some levels of skills. They might be very antisocial skills, but none the less they are respected and there is comparative safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn gangs young people can advance. They can obtain some wealth. They can obtain some respect, but they do not get it from anywhere else in our community. There have been numerous examples of young people having had no other alternative but to find that respect and security in the gangs. There was a very good example when last year Alan Johnson from Manurewa described a league club in Manurewa that could not get enough money to keep its buildings in good enough repair to be able to support the young people who were involved in that club. They had 1,000 members, they had annual fees of $20, and they still had families who could not participate because it was too expensive. Those families had to choose between one child or the other being able to play league. Because those children got no support from elsewhere they had no other accessible participation that they could be involved with that would give them the kind of respect and dignity they were looking for. Where are they going to go? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EPoliticians will make political meals out of the tragedies of gang violence, but will do nothing to demonstrate the real leadership that our communities need in order to avoid those kinds of gang problems in the future. We need real leadership. We need to protect our communities. We need cost-effective rehabilitation programmes to be supported. A number currently exist in our jails\u2014for example, Kia M\u0101rama, Sycamore Tree, and faith-based units. We need to eliminate the poverty that blights those communities and drives them into gangs, as being the only option for them. We need warm, dry houses at least, for them to be able to live in. We need high-quality, truly free education for their children to participate in. We need affordable public transport so they can get to work, get to school, get to their community engagements. We need secure employment, but that was demolished by National in December of last year. We need secure employment that provides a living wage for families so they can care for themselves and each other, without having to resort to crime to find sufficient income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u00229ec0cf75c37a40f8b26faf741d46a2a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ec0cf75c37a40f8b26faf741d46a2a1\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to rise in support of the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill, and I begin by saying I am happy to agree with two speakers on the Labour side. Ms Dalziel quite correctly said that the gang problem has morphed over recent years from men in stinking denims, with tattoos on their faces and elsewhere, into men in suits. That is true. They have moved more towards the Capone mob than they ever were before. I am happy to agree with Mr Cosgrove, who described gangs as a scourge on our society, because that is what they are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThe reason I was attracted to ACT is very simple. Its founding principle is that the first role of the State is the protection of its citizens\u2014to protect its citizens and not to protect criminals. Sadly, that is where my agreement with the other side of the House ends. I believe that the concept of the protection of citizens rather than criminals was foreign to the previous Government. It let violent offenders out of prison, after serving just one third of their sentence, which William Bell, who had 102 previous convictions, roam around and kill Mary Hobson and three others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EI am very pleased that the new Government\u2019s first 100 days has included emphasis on legislation to deal with these problems. I respectfully disagree with my colleagues on the National benches, who say that association laws are very difficult. I recall an exchange of correspondence between myself and that greatly respected \u00E9minence grise from the Labour Party, Sir Geoffrey Palmer, more than 20 years ago when he loftily informed me that we could not make laws to outlaw gangs, because no Western society had done so. I informed him\u2014he did not bother to reply\u2014that West Germany, as it then was, had successfully outlawed Fascist parties and that the Irish Republic had successfully outlawed the IRA. Neither of them was repressive, totalitarian regimes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EIt is possible to pass non-association laws. If we talk to older policemen, we will hear that they used to go to the flying-jug hotel in every town\u2014I think it was in Cambridge Terrace here in Wellington\u2014pick out the guys who were subject to non-association orders, and lock them up. But then we started to say that, no, we could not do that because it was against people\u2019s human rights. When we talk to retired policemen, they tell us that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EWe support this bill as a good start. It is kind of ironic for me as I stand here that locals in my pub up in Kaukapakapa, who are mostly Labour voters, would say that this bill does not go anywhere near far enough and that we should have an \u201CExtermination of Gangs Bill\u201D. Those people are Labour voters, but crucially, they have mixed with those guys. They know what they are like. They know that the Mongrel Mob is not another kind of wh\u0101nau. They know that what Metiria Turei was saying is simply nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EGangs are criminal organisations whose focus is making money. As Ms Dalziel has said, they are making a hell of a lot of money from P, and they are also making money from dope dealing, and from stealing cars, breaking them up, and selling them. They are making money from raping p\u0101ua beds and selling p\u0101ua to whomever. Sadly, with Asian gangs coming in, they are making money from contract killings, extortion, and protection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E Gangs are not wh\u0101nau. They are not a rough version of the Lions club, as silly left-wing commentators used to say. We can differentiate in law between the Lions club and Black Power, the Hell\u2019s Angels, or the Headhunters, just as the West Germans did and just as the Irish did. Sadly, my friends at the Kaukapakapa pub are wrong. An \u201CExtermination of Gangs Bill\u201D is not that simple\u2014we all know that\u2014and this bill is a demonstration of the complexity of the problem. It needs to be attacked on a number of fronts, and this bill talks about that, especially about interception warrants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EMs Dalziel is absolutely right: the stupid fools who parade around barking like dogs and waving their blue scarves, or whatever they are\u2014red is the colour of the other bunch of clowns, is it not\u2014are probably too stupid to need interception warrants to be caught. But the P dealers, the Headhunters, and the Hell\u2019s Angels\u2014she is quite right\u2014all keep quiet. They have nice houses in Herne Bay, they smile at their neighbours, and they help old ladies across the road. At Christmas time they have a nice run and collect teddy bears. But they are the really sinister ones. That is why we need these kinds of provisions to get into them, find out what they are doing, get the evidence, and lock them up for a very long time. None of these gangs are motorcycle clubs. As Ms Dalziel says, they have moved on a bit. But some of those old ones still exist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EI do not know how many members of the House have been in gang pads, but I have. A lot of gang members will say \u201CWe\u2019re not a gang; we\u2019re a club. See\u2014MC, bro, MC: motorcycle club.\u201D But that is nonsense. It is absolute nonsense. Another thing on the patch is \u201C1%\u201D. That is there because they claim, proudly, to be outlaws. That \u201C1%\u201D comes from a motorcycle association in California in the 1940s, when the whole gang thing and culture first started. That organisation came out and said that fewer than 1 percent of motorcycle riders were outlaws and law-breakers. So the gangs adopted the figure proudly and said: \u201COne percent\u2014you see, we\u2019re outlaws.\u201D That is what they are, and outlaws deliberately put themselves outside the law. They say: \u201CWe don\u2019t give a stuff about your laws.\u201D, or they say it in language a bit more fruity than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EWe should respond by saying that they are outside the law and are not entitled to the same rights as you are, Mr Assistant Speaker, or as I am, or as the members on the other side of the House are. They have fewer rights because of their behaviour\u2014they are outlaws\u2014and this bill is a good start. Those gangs are no more\u2014even the motorcycle gangs, the prominent gangs. They used to be the Capone mob in stinking denims, but now the smart ones have moved on. They have given away the denims and they have bought the pinstriped suits\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c83f41a8d04fd687bcd90ae10aa2cb\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cce9bcda58774b038f24f0fe5c284993\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: I notice that my leader, the leader of our gang, has entered the House, but I cannot reveal our initiation rites here! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EBut Ms Dalziel is correct: it is the ones in suits we have to fear, and it is those gangs that this bill is targeting with interception warrants. The bill is a good start, and we are proud and pleased to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac5eb84baf7c499db1c6efe232f9d409\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac5eb84baf7c499db1c6efe232f9d409\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Kia ora t\u0101tau e te Whare. I te tau kua hipa, i puta i a m\u0101tou o te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori he \u012Bnoi ki te Whare, kia tika r\u0101 an\u014D te whakahua i ng\u0101 ingoa M\u0101ori me ng\u0101 kupu M\u0101ori i roto i t\u0113nei Whare. \u0100e, he mema hou te mema e k\u014Drerohia ake nei, k\u0101re au i p\u012Brangi ki te whawhati i tana k\u014Drero, engari ko t\u0101ku, he \u012Bnoi an\u014D r\u0101 ki te Whare, kia tika r\u0101 an\u014D te whakahua i ng\u0101 kupu M\u0101ori, kia tika, kia M\u0101ori mai. K\u0101ore au i te p\u012Brangi ki te whawhati i te k\u014Drero a t\u0113nei, k\u0101o, engari i te t\u012Bmatanga o te tau, me whakaputa \u0113nei k\u014Drero kia matua m\u014Dhio mai te katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings. Greetings to us, the House. We, the M\u0101ori Party, made a plea to the House last year for M\u0101ori names and words to be pronounced correctly when used in the House. Yes, the member referred to here is new, and while I did not wish to interrupt his address, it is timely to make that plea once again at this point, that the House make an effort to ensure that M\u0101ori words are pronounced correctly and made to sound like M\u0101ori. I do not wish to interrupt this one\u2019s address, no indeed, but it is the beginning of the year, and these statements should be made to ensure that everyone is aware of the matter.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022353b4f2be6d44574b64d1a74537059ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022353b4f2be6d44574b64d1a74537059ce\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s point of order is well made, and I am sure all members will acknowledge it. I think that it is a general reminder to members that we should pay our respects not only to the English language but certainly to the M\u0101ori language as well, and all do our best to pronounce the words as best we can. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00225a8db0bb8adf405fb129cf4ab3da13f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a8db0bb8adf405fb129cf4ab3da13f3\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I a t\u0101tau e k\u014Drero nei i te take nei, anei au e noho i te \u0101wangawanga, i te rangirua. E p\u0113nei ana te k\u014Drero i te mea, k\u0101ore e kore i ng\u0101 marama kua hipa kua rongo t\u0101tau katoa o t\u0113nei Whare i te ngau \u014D-mate. N\u014D reira me p\u0113nei rawa te k\u014Drero, haere koutou, haere koutou, haere koutou, moe mai. \u0100piti hono, t\u0101tai hono koutou ki a koutou, \u0101piti hono, t\u0101tai hono t\u0101tau e hui nei i t\u0113nei r\u0101, ng\u0101 mema o te Whare P\u0101remata, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI mihia te hunga mate e Mr Assistant Speaker n\u0101 runga i te mea i ng\u0101 hararei kua hipa i n\u0101tatanei, i te wiki kua hipa ake, i rongo te hapori o Murupara i te matenga o t\u0113tahi o w\u0101 r\u0101tau tamaiti. Ko Jordan Herewini t\u014Dna ingoa. Tekau m\u0101 ono t\u014Dna pakeke. I k\u014Dhurutia e te mema o te k\u0113nge kia mate. Wh\u0101nakohia te waka a t\u0113tahi o te k\u0113nge, taraiwa tika tonu atu ki t\u0113r\u0101 tamaiti, ka hinga, ka mate. Tekau m\u0101 ono noa iho \u014Dna tau. Ko wai te hunga i k\u014Dhuru i a ia? He k\u0113nge. He M\u0101ori i patu i te M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira, nei au e noho nei i te riri ki t\u0113r\u0101 tangata i k\u014Dhuru i t\u0113r\u0101 tamaiti. Anei au e noho i te whakam\u0101, n\u0101 te M\u0101ori an\u014D te M\u0101ori i patu. Anei an\u014D au e noho i te p\u014Duri n\u0101 runga i te p\u014Duri o te ng\u0101kau ki ng\u0101 tamariki o t\u014Dna kura, t\u014Dna wh\u0101nau, te tumuaki, ng\u0101 kaiako o t\u014Dna kura. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAnei au e noho i te rangirua, \u0101e r\u0101nei me tautoko i t\u0113nei pire, k\u0101ore r\u0101nei. Ki te Minita, he pai tonu te aronga o te pire nei. \u0100e, kia h\u0101ngai tonu ana ki te hunga e mahi nei i ng\u0101 hara o roto i te ao. Kai te whakaae atu au ki t\u0113r\u0101. Engari, anei au e whakaaro ake nei, ka ngaki t\u0113r\u0101 i te mate o Jordan? K\u0101ore pea, k\u0101ore pea. I m\u014Dhio au ki t\u0113nei tamaiti a Jordan. Ko taku riri ki t\u0113r\u0101 tangata n\u0101na t\u0113n\u0101 i mahi. Engari, e h\u0101ngai tonu t\u0113nei pire ki t\u0113r\u0101? Te \u0101hua nei, k\u0101o. K\u0101ore i eke ki t\u0113r\u0101 taumata. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKua h\u014Dh\u0101 te ao M\u0101ori ki ng\u0101 mahi a \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u0113nge. \u0100e, kua h\u014Dh\u0101, kua riri ki ng\u0101 k\u0113nge m\u014D te mahi k\u014Dhuru, m\u014D te mahi wh\u0101nako, m\u014D te mahi hokohoko tarutaru. Ko ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o te mema i t\u016B mai i mua i a au, \u0101e, e tautoko ake. Engari, koia nei te rongo\u0101? \u0112 kore pea. Ahakoa ko te ng\u0101kau kei te k\u012B, \u0101e, me tautoko. Ko te hinengaro kai te k\u012B, taihoa. Taihoa ake nei. \u0100ta w\u0101nanga i te take nei. Ehara i te mea he take ng\u0101wari noa iho. He tamariki t\u014D w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 mema o ng\u0101 k\u0113nge. He kuia tonu t\u014D w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u0113nge. He koroua tonu, he wahine tonu t\u0101 w\u0113tahi. N\u014D reira, kai te k\u014Drero t\u0101tau m\u014D te tangata, m\u014D te tangata. Kai te k\u014Drero t\u0101tau m\u014D te whakapapa o te tangata, kaua ko te whakapapa o te kur\u012B. Ko te whakapapa o te tangata p\u0113nei i a koe, a koe, a koe, a koe, a koe, t\u0101tau, he tangata. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EE k\u012B ana i roto i te ao M\u0101ori: \u201CHe aha te mea nui o te ao? M\u0101ku e k\u012B atu he tangata.\u201D N\u014D reira kai roto i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o te ao M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira, t\u0113nei take he take nui, whakaharahara, he take nui. Me k\u014Drero ki te take ka tika. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u0101, ar\u0101 an\u014D ng\u0101 \u0101wangawanga. Ko te ingoa o t\u0113nei pire kai te k\u012B, \u201CK\u0113nge me ng\u0101\u201D, k\u0101ore au i te m\u014Dhio p\u0113hea te whakam\u0101ori i \u0113nei k\u014Drero engari, \u201Corganised crime\u201D. T\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero. Ko te mate k\u0113 p\u0113nei i taku k\u014Drero ki te Minita i te rangi nei. Ko t\u0113nei kupu o te \u201Ck\u0113nge\u201D, e ai ki t\u0101 te titiro o Aotearoa, h\u0101ngai tonu ana ki ng\u0101 k\u0113nge M\u0101ori. Ki t\u0101 te titiro o Aotearoa, h\u0101ngai tonu ana tana titiro ki te k\u0113nge M\u0101ori. Anei m\u0101tau e w\u0101nanga nei, ar\u0101 noa atu ng\u0101 momo k\u0113nge. \u016Akuia t\u0113r\u0101 ingoa. \u016Akuia t\u0113r\u0101 ingoa kia kore t\u0113nei pire e rere tika tonu atu ki te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EK\u0101tahi. Ka rua. Kua rongo au i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a Metiria Turei, ko tana k\u012B mai m\u014D te \u0101huatanga ki a T\u016Bhoe. Nui atu, roa atu i te kotahi tau te p\u012Brihimana e m\u0101takitaki atu ana e te pirihi. Pai mai, kino mai koin\u0101 te \u0101huatanga o te mahi. He aha te putanga mai? Katoa o te wh\u0101rua o Ru\u0101toki i rongo nei i te ngau o te pirihimana ahakoa, ehara n\u014D r\u0101tou t\u0113tahi paku h\u0113. Anei m\u0101tau e p\u0101tai nei i te p\u0101tai, ka p\u0113hea te hunga e k\u014Drerohia ake nei i roto i ng\u0101 k\u0113nge? Ka p\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D hoki r\u0101tou? \u0100e r\u0101nei, k\u0101ore r\u0101nei. \u0100, t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero t\u0113r\u0101. Ko t\u0113tahi pea o ng\u0101 tikanga e ai ki t\u0101 w\u0113tahi, t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 tikanga o te k\u0113nge, he utu te k\u014Drero. He utu. Ka patua t\u0113tahi, ana, patua an\u014D r\u0101 t\u0113tahi atu. Anei t\u0101tau e mahi nei i t\u0113r\u0101 mahi ki a r\u0101tau. Ko taua \u0101hua an\u014D r\u0101. Ko te utu. K\u0101re e whakaaro ake m\u014D te ng\u0101wari kia puta mau r\u0101tau ki te whai ao, ki te ao m\u0101rama, k\u0101o. T\u012Bkina te k\u012B, mahia te mahi, whiua ki te whare herehere. T\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero t\u0113r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, kei te whakaae atu au, \u0101e, he take nui te k\u0113nge. Ko t\u0101ku e k\u012B nei, kei roto i \u014D t\u0101tau ringaringa pea te rongo\u0101. He aha te h\u0113 o te titiro ki t\u0113tahi huarahi k\u0113 atu? Kaua ko te utu engari, t\u0113r\u0101 pea ki \u0113tahi huarahi e whai haeretia nei e te hapori o Murupara. I n\u0101p\u014Dnei, i hui a Ng\u0101ti Manawa ki runga i t\u0113tahi o w\u0101 r\u0101tou marae ki Murupara. I reira, i k\u014Drerohia te take nei. I puta te k\u014Drero, karangahia he hui o ng\u0101 k\u0113nge katoa o Murupara, kia hui tahi, kia k\u014Drero tahi, \u0101, kua pu\u0101wai t\u0113r\u0101 moemoe\u0101. \u0100p\u014Dp\u014D ka t\u016B te hui m\u014D ng\u0101 k\u0113nge o Murupara. \u0100p\u014Dp\u014D. Ko t\u0101 r\u0101tau, ko te kimi rongo\u0101 i roto i a r\u0101tou an\u014D. E kore ng\u0101 pirihimana e tae atu. Kore ng\u0101 mema p\u0101remata e tae atu. Kua waiho ake m\u0101 te hapori an\u014D te hapori e k\u014Drero. Kua waiho ake m\u0101 Ng\u0101ti Manawa a Ng\u0101ti Manawa e k\u014Drero. Kua waiho ake m\u0101 Ng\u0101ti Whare a Ng\u0101ti Whare e k\u014Drero. M\u0101 ng\u0101 kenge t\u0113r\u0101 e whakatika. N\u014D reira, kai te whakaae atu au ki t\u0113r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHe aha te tikanga o t\u0113r\u0101 hui? Kia haere i raro i te korowai o te mana \u014Drite, ar\u0101, ko te \u201Cequal mana\u201D. \u014Crite te katoa o te hunga ka tae atu ki te hui. Engari, kotahi anake te aronga o t\u0113r\u0101 hui, ko te anga whakamua kia kore a patu, a wh\u0101nako, a t\u016Bkino t\u0101ne ki te w\u0101hine, t\u0101ne ki te tamaiti, t\u0101ne ki te t\u0101ne e whakatinatinahia i roto i t\u0113r\u0101 hapori o Murupara. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira hei kupu whakamutunga, ko te hunga ka mahi i w\u0101 r\u0101tau mahi nanakia, e te m\u0101ngai, m\u0113n\u0101 ka h\u0113 i raro i te ture, tukuna ki te whare herehere m\u0113n\u0101 koin\u0101 te huarahi. Engari, e kore t\u0113nei pire e whakatinana i te wawata, waiho ake m\u0101 te hapori an\u014D te hapori e whakatika.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker. As we debate this matter, I sit here troubled and concerned. I speak in this manner because without a doubt all of us of this House have experienced the death of a loved one in the months past. Allow me, then, to pay a tribute to them by saying: depart, farewell, journey on, rest there. You, the dead, to the dead, and we, the living, to the living\u2014that is, we, the members of Parliament gathered here today, greetings to you, greetings to you, and greetings to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI paid a tribute to the departed, Mr Assistant Speaker, because in the very recent holiday period just past\u2014a week ago, in fact\u2014Murupara suffered the death of a young one of their community. Jordan Herewini was his name. He was 16 years of age, and murdered by a gang member. A gang member\u2019s vehicle was stolen, and driven on purpose towards that youngster, who was felled and killed. He was only 16. Who murdered him? It was a gang member. M\u0101ori slew M\u0101ori. So here I am, furious at the person who murdered that child\u2014ashamed that a M\u0101ori killed another M\u0101ori. I feel as well for the pupils of his school, his family, and the principal and teachers of his school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHere I am in a state of confusion about whether to support this bill or not to support it. To the Minister, I say that the emphasis of this bill is quite good. Yes, the focus is on the ones responsible for the crimes in the world. I agree with that. But I really wonder to myself whether that will avenge Jordan\u2019s death. I do not think so\u2014no, not at all. I knew this lad, Jordan. My anger towards that person for that foul act knows no bounds. But is this bill really relevant to that situation? No, it hardly seems to be. It is not quite up at that level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EM\u0101oridom is fed up with what some gangs get up to\u2014yes, hacked off with acts of murder, theft, and selling cannabis. Yes, I support what the member who spoke before me said. I agree with it. But is this the solution? Perhaps it is not. Even though the heart is saying \u201CYes, support it.\u201D, the mind is saying \u201CWait up. Hang on a moment.\u201D Let us debate this issue carefully. It is not a clear-cut matter. Some gang members have children of their own. Some have their own elderly women and menfolk. Some have a wife. Therefore, we are talking about people. We are talking about a person\u2019s genealogy, not about a dog\u2019s one\u2014the genealogy of a person like each and every one of us, as people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe question in M\u0101oridom is this: \u201CWhat is the greatest thing in the world? I say unto you, it is mankind.\u201D So it is there, in the aphorisms of the M\u0101ori world. This, then, is a huge issue. It is a great one, a valuable one, and important. It has to be discussed, and quite rightly so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere are other concerns, too. The title of this bill states \u201CGangs and\u201D\u2014I do not know how to translate the rest of it, but leave it at \u201COrganised Crime\u201D. That is that one. The problem really is like what I raised with the Minister today. According to the New Zealand view, this word \u201Cgang\u201D relates directly to M\u0101ori gangs. Here we are debating, but there are many types of gangs. That name should be deleted. It should be removed so that this bill does not refer directly to M\u0101ori circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThat is the first thing. Second, I heard what Metiria Turei said in respect of the situation concerning T\u016Bhoe. For more than a year\u2014a very long time, in fact\u2014they were subjected to police surveillance. Good or bad, that was the situation. What was the outcome? The entire Ru\u0101toki valley suffered the consequences of police presence, even though they could not be faulted, not by one bit. Here we are posing the question: what about the ones referred to in gangs? Will they be dealt with in the same way? Yes or no? That is that matter. According to some, perhaps, an eye for an eye is a gang custom\u2014revenge. When a life is taken, it is paid for by the life of someone else. And here we are doing exactly that to them\u2014taking revenge. No thought is being given to make it easy for them to emerge into the world of enlightenment, the world of light\u2014none. Fetch the key, do what has to be done, toss them in prison! That is it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI agree, gangs are a big issue. I advocate that the remedy perhaps is in our hands. What is wrong with looking for another way instead\u2014not an eye for an eye, but perhaps some avenues like those being followed up by the community of Murupara? Just last night, Ng\u0101ti Manawa met on one of their marae. There they discussed this matter. The statement was released that a meeting of all Murupara be convened for them to meet and talk together collectively. So a dream bloomed. Tomorrow there will be a meeting of the Murupara gangs\u2014yes, tomorrow. Their objective is to look for remedies within themselves. The police will not be there, neither will politicians. It will be left totally for Ng\u0101ti Manaw\u0101 to deal with Ng\u0101ti Manawa and Ng\u0101ti Whare itself. The gangs will put it right. I agree with that totally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAnd what is the purpose of that meeting? It is to be conducted under the mantle of \u201Cequal autonomy\u201D. Equality will be upon all who attend the meeting. But that meeting has one focus only, and that is to move forward so that the male element that hits, steals, and molests women, children, and other men ceases to manifest itself in that community of Murupara. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, those who conduct themselves in a reckless manner and err against the law should be sent to prison, if that is the way. But if this bill does not realise the hope, leave it for the community to deal with its own.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u002265e4678224c6443a87e13c26d009f074\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265e4678224c6443a87e13c26d009f074\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E I observe the irony of the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill being rushed through the House, when the member responsible for it has indicated that it is to go to a select committee for the full period of 6 months. One might wonder why we had to wait until just before the House came together tonight to get a copy of the bill. One would think that he is trying to impress somebody; I do not know who. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EIf I could sum up this bill in one sentence, it would be that the National Government has wildly raised expectations on the issue of dealing with violent crime in New Zealand. The Labour-Progressive Opposition will support this bill, but it is not the silver bullet that National has promised it will be. It will not significantly reduce violent crime in New Zealand, as National has promised. It will not make a huge dent in crime, as National has promised most New Zealanders. The previous Government was already promoting this kind of legislation and would have passed something similar to this bill, but we would not have pretended\u2014as National has\u2014that this was a major part of what we needed to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI have no trouble in declaring that the major factors involved in crime should be on the wrong end of tough law. Gangs are a cause of crime, so we should be tough with them. We should be tough on all the causes of crime, as well. But there is one factor linked to crime that this Government does not mention in this bill and does not talk about. One factor is linked to 60 percent of all the people who are arrested for criminal acts. Can Government members tell us what that factor is, or even say the word that is common to the majority of all crime in New Zealand? It is not gangs, and it is not methamphetamine or P. Both of those are serious threats that need to be dealt with, of course. But if a party is serious about them, then logically it should be much more serious about a much more common cause of crime. What is that common factor? It is alcohol abuse, and 60 percent of all those arrested in New Zealand are under the influence of alcohol at the time when the offence for which they have been arrested was committed\u201460 percent. No other factor comes even close to that. Because the Government will not even mention that alcohol is involved in the committing of most crime, it will not do anything about 60 percent of those who are offending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EIf this bill is passed before the National members have dealt with the low-hanging fruit, before the biggest factor in crime is dealt with, then they are not serious about crime. They are joking. They have raised expectations, which will ultimately disappoint people, and those members will be held up to ridicule. The National members made a big issue out of crime when they were in Opposition. I am not going to quickly forget their pledges to seriously reduce the rate of violent crime. I remember John Banks coming in as the Minister of Police and saying he would end all violent crime within 3 weeks of the Aramoana massacre; we did not hear much more from John as the Minister of Police after that. The National Party promised that if elected, a National Government would put an immediate end to the kind of violent crime that terrorised shopkeepers in South Auckland. I ask members to remember those shopkeepers and the Indian community being terrorised by attacks in those neighbourhoods. How much neighbourhood crime is linked to the sudden proliferation of liquor outlets there? How much is linked to the low drinking age, which lets teenagers buy as much alcohol as they want in nearly every corner of those suburbs? This bill will not tackle that. Alcohol abuse is not even mentioned in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThe National Party made promises such as the one about significantly reducing violent crime. Having raised expectations, this Government is now accountable if it does not deliver on them. The Government should not necessarily be culpable for all violent crime, of course, but the National Party has made it that way. It promised the New Zealand public that it would make a difference. Here is item No. 4 in National\u2019s blueprint for change from August last year: \u201CNational knows New Zealanders are sick of worrying about the surging levels of violent crime in this country. We are not going to put up with it. So National will launch a full-frontal attack on gangs and the \u2018P\u2019 trade they support.\u201D OK, so National is passing the law that it said it would pass. I say \u201CGood on its members for doing that.\u201D, but now the acid is on Simon Power and John Key. This is National\u2019s full-frontal assault on gangs and the P trade, and if it does not deal effectively to the surging levels of crime that National knows New Zealanders are sick of, then National will be held accountable for that failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EMr Key said over and over again on stages and in TV debates that the major problem is the gangs, because the gangs make P and P is the major cause of crime. He said that when his party took office, it would pass this bill and violent crime would be significantly reduced. It is remotely possible that he may be right. I hope the bill really does make a huge difference\u2014who would not? That is why I and the Opposition are voting for this bill. We absolutely want any bill of this kind to be successful, but I am not actually naive enough to make the promise Mr Key and his National candidates made up and down the country that they would significantly reduce violent crime. Mr Key said in his speech on 29 January last year \u201CViolent youth crime is at an all-time high. Robbery is up. Grievous assaults are up. Aggravated robbery is up. Youth criminals are graduating from petty crime to more serious crime; unexploded time-bombs on a fast-track to Paremoremo.\u201D Will this bill make a major difference to that? I tell members not to hold their breath. Mr Key wildly over-promised, and now National is under-delivering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI ask Government members here in the Chamber whether violent crime will be significantly reduced as from the date of the passing of this bill. Will that be virtually the end of it being in the headlines? I suggest that the answer is an unequivocal no. Are those members confident that they have fixed crime? Do they still want to tell New Zealanders that they will significantly reduce violent crime, as they promised on the hustings? I wish this bill could have that effect; I do not believe it will. Every violent crime from now on will show the failure of this key promise of National\u2019s members that they could stamp out violent crime by targeting gangs. They have raised expectations far beyond what they can deliver on, never mentioning in the bill the key drug abuse that causes and is associated with the overwhelming majority of crime in New Zealand. Alcohol abuse is not mentioned. Are those members really serious? It seems to me that they have raised expectations far beyond what they can deliver on, and thus they have failed, and will fail, the communities that they promised to protect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u002230609b011dac4e21816d3238640f83fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230609b011dac4e21816d3238640f83fb\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to support the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill in the House today. The National Government is not afraid to walk the talk and get tough on crime. What a curious speech we have just heard! Is the compelling proposition in the mind of the Hon Jim Anderton that we should outlaw alcohol? Is that where that argument might take him? New Zealanders deserve to feel safe in their homes and in their communities. I would say we listened for too long as the Labour administration talked the talk over gang violence. Its failure to walk the talk has allowed the P trade to flourish in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe police have told us that the abuse of drugs is a factor in a substantial proportion of offending. The effects, of course, spread across many dimensions of our society, with social, economic, and technological consequences. Those social costs include family breakdown, relationship problems, and neglect of children. The personal costs include methamphetamine-related psychosis, psychological disorders, and general cognitive damage. The cost to society has been cited by some in the alcohol and drug sector as a lost generation of P users whose dependence on, and heavy use of, methamphetamine has made them socially dysfunctional. That, of course, has led to many other problems that society is left to deal with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe rise in methamphetamine and associated offending presents a significant challenge for the police, with the discovery of more clandestine laboratories each year, and offenders committing crimes to feed their addiction. In 2007, just under 75 percent of clandestine drug laboratories were identified by the police as being linked to recognised criminal gangs. I guess there are those who naively believe that New Zealand gangs will eventually self-destruct through their exposure to methamphetamine and P, or that senior members may actively discourage their own offspring from following in their footsteps, but the reality is that for every gang member who leaves, there are many disenfranchised and alienated youths ready to take up the colours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EOur police officers deserve to have effective tools to fight this scourge on our society. As we saw only too clearly last year, undercover police work is dangerous. These legislative changes will expand police surveillance powers in respect of gang communications. The changes will also introduce tougher penalties for membership of a criminal gang and provide greater powers to remove gang fortifications. Amending the Sentencing Act will ensure that it will be considered an aggravating factor when an offender has committed an offence wholly or partly because of his or her participation in an organised criminal group. An amendment to the Local Government Act 2002 will enable a District Court to order the removal of gang fortifications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EUnlike what the previous speaker has said, these are practical, specific, and measurable initiatives designed to achieve results, and National is happy to be measured on that basis. New Zealanders deserve to feel safe in their homes and communities, and our Government is wasting no time to walk the talk and look after them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022154a6d0e3f2243ce8e272f50702f20ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022154a6d0e3f2243ce8e272f50702f20ca\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy. The issue of the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill elicits all sorts of responses from the M\u0101ori community. We have heard one response from the M\u0101ori Party, although I must say that I am unsure whether the party will back this bill or stand aside from it. Hiding behind the M\u0101ori language and providing unwanted cultural remedies to a multigenerational problem of criminalities will not, at the end of the day, cut the mustard. It is disappointing that this bill has been brought forward in such an ad hoc and almost furtive manner and that it will sit in a select committee for 6 months. It is part of a cynical attempt to hoodwink both P\u0101keh\u0101 and M\u0101ori\u2014all segments of the community\u2014into thinking that fantastic things are happening as the hot air balloon goes around the political globe in 100 days. Air is disappearing as they speak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ELet us just go back to my colleague Te Ururoa Flavell with a very simple question. Does he stand in the M\u0101ori community as an unremitting, unrelenting foe against gangs, or is he an apologist? Any group that organises its young people and its women through menace and fear to continue criminality will never, ever be saved through tikanga M\u0101ori, singing \u201CKumbaya\u201D, or any other soft approach. These people see softness as an invitation to continue their menace. When these people hear that they are not welcome on the marae any more, they giggle. They will go wherever they like and do whatever they like until they meet ringa kaha\u2014the hard, solid fist of law and order. That is why I am happy to see this bill go to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EHowever, it damages the reputation of this House that the bill arrives in a fashion that is surrounded by furtiveness. Gang culture thrives partly through the profit motive. If people cross the gangs, they mark them. They mark them because they are a threat to their established order, which is based, No. 1, on scaring the wits out of the community; and, No. 2, on recruiting through showing that down Easy Street lies easy money and easy fame, but also hardship for the victims of those who perpetrate the crimes on Easy Street. That is why we should have no tolerance of them. We should not normalise them. We should not use kinship or culture as a basis for explaining their ills. If they want to behave like criminals they should be stripped of the M\u0101ori cloak and treated as the most dangerous, menacing form of criminals, which exist to kill, maim, rob, and be villains. Somehow or another, we are told that at the end of the day that will not solve the problem. Why? It is not because of 100 years of colonisation\u2014which is the reason parroted by the various speakers from the M\u0101ori Party\u2014but because in our communities people exist who are so disconnected from the institution of work and regular education that simply locking them up has proven to create a new recruitment ground, \u00E0 la Ng\u0101wh\u0101 prison. The Department of Corrections has a great deal of explaining to do, and I look forward to the Minister of Corrections coming back to the House to explain why a successful drug ring is operating from one of our main prisons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThat is the dilemma for those of us from the M\u0101ori community: to take a hard line, but also to realise that the problem will continue to exist. I say to the M\u0101ori Party and to our colleagues here that the problem has to be smashed on both the supply side and the demand side. This bill should go to a select committee. It should be the subject of great submissions. It should build on the fact that it is largely a plagiarism of what Labour was going to do anyway. It actually filches all sorts of very sensible ideas that have been subject to great community consultation and that will allow the Minister, Simon Power, to build on those foundation blocks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOf course, the big test that the new Minister of Education has to face is what interventions there are for teenagers and the kids of gangs to ensure that a better pathway is made available to them so that they choose not to follow their parents and grandparents into that gang culture. They will follow them for as long as they are menaced and threatened, and for as long as we allow them to live in this false, detached world. As long as we, the community, fear them or are unwilling to have them face the full consequences of their fearmongering and their menace, they will continue to take us for a ride. Let us consider a bit of the Old Testament. \u201CUtua te kino, ki te kino. Mehemea he pai t\u014D whakaaro m\u0101ku koe e awhiawhi.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[A villainous deed must be repaid in kind. If your intention is favourable I will embrace you.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIf one does a villainous deed, then one will meet the full force of the law. If, however, one wants to redeem oneself, anei te ringa\u2014here lies the hand to help one on the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo I say yes to education, but also to an iron fist reminding people that they cannot use the cloak of M\u0101oridom to conceal criminality and to continue gang culture, which is a blight as much on M\u0101oridom as it is on the rest of the community. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002207284d8f423746a7abeeff510083ec00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207284d8f423746a7abeeff510083ec00\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise in support of the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill, which will provide a greater range of tools to combat and punish gangs in the future. I say that anything along the road towards a tougher response to gangs has to be commended. I agree with the Hon Shane Jones, who said that this bill provides the hard, solid fist on law and order that is required. I say with respect, as a young, new, inexperienced member, that his speech had some touches of brilliance and it clearly marks him out as a leader of his party in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI will briefly make a couple of points on specific matters in this bill. I have some familiarity with section 98A of the Crimes Act, having been involved in prosecutions based on it on a number of occasions. One such occasion involved the prosecution of a multiple number of accused persons in a trial in the Bay of Plenty. It was a case involving a shoot-out between several members of two rival gangs who were charged with offences under section 98A. None of those gang members were convicted. It was clear to me at that time that the provision was too hard to get convictions under\u2014too complex, too hard to prove, and not worth pursuing\u2014and I suspect this has been the experience of many a prosecutor in this nation. This bill goes towards addressing that issue, and I welcome that. The amendment to section 9 of the Sentencing Act in relation to aggravating factors that makes being a gang member an aggravating factor at sentencing is also all to the good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI agree with the Hon Shane Jones that gangs peddle misery. We need to have the hard, solid fist of law and order here, and I believe that this bill will make very positive steps indeed towards doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022babb5430add6433699ea525f17733e68\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000623\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Law and Order Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022885626f61604457aa0954c97a8a2529a\u0022\u003ECriminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022619c7eb657074813a9a3e095f5b1be42\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022d455f4c6f0c0422da2f802fe81d890de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d455f4c6f0c0422da2f802fe81d890de\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill be referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee for consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EIt may not be all that apparent from its title, but this bill is about expanding the collection and use of DNA samples to assist the police in solving more crime. In November 2007, National announced that it would bolster the tool kit of the police by requiring DNA samples to be taken from all those arrested for offences that are punishable by imprisonment. The first reading of this bill today fulfils the Government\u2019s commitment to introduce such legislation in its first 100 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003ECurrently, DNA samples can be taken only with a suspect\u2019s consent, or by compulsion where people are suspected or convicted of an offence punishable by more than 7 years imprisonment or otherwise specified as a \u201Crelevant offence\u201D. It precludes DNA samples taken from those suspected of a wide range of significant offences that do not meet the threshold. Where consent is not forthcoming before conviction, the current law requires police officers to go through the process of applying to the High Court for leave to take a DNA sample. This bill amends the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Act 1995 to allow police to collect DNA from a person whom they intend to charge with an offence, and to match that person\u2019s DNA profile against DNA samples from other unsolved crime scenes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe implementation of this legislation will follow a two-stage approach. The first stage will provide police with the ability to obtain and test the DNA profile of every person charged with a relevant offence. The current list of relevant offences is made up of serious offences where DNA trace evidence is often involved, or crimes that demonstrate a propensity for more serious offending. The bill expands this list to include other relevant offences, such as aggravated assault, peeping, committing an indecent act in a public place, unlawful possession of a firearm, cruelty to a child, and male assaults on females. The second stage will enable this new process to apply to all individuals charged with an imprisonable offence by 2011. I advise the House that our first preference was to proceed to full implementation as soon as possible. However, the staged approach outlined in the bill will allow the Institute of Environmental Science and Research to adjust to the increased workload resulting from the new regime, and for police to develop guidelines and train their staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe staged approach also recognises that there have been significant changes to New Zealand\u2019s fiscal situation since the original policy was announced, and it provides an opportunity to gather more robust information about full implementation. Finally, the staged approach recognises that the expansion and the use of DNA sampling and matching raises issues that are worthy of public debate. The Government\u2019s position is that a DNA sample simply constitutes the modern fingerprint. Forensic crime scene investigation has progressed to the point that small amounts of trace evidence can now produce a usable DNA profile. The current DNA databank of 90,000 profiles was the second to be established in the world, and New Zealand scientists have been at the forefront of advances in extracting DNA profiles from crime scene trace evidence. The question to this House is whether we are making the best use of this technology and these skills to help the police to solve more crime. The current list of relevant offences for which DNA samples can be taken represents only 13.6 percent of those individuals convicted of criminal offending. There are still over 8,000 unidentified DNA profiles from crime scenes in the databank that relate to unsolved crimes, including sexual assaults, aggravated robberies, homicides, arson, and drug offences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe measures proposed in this bill will substantially increase the size of the DNA profile databank, which in turn will help to match offenders to unsolved crime scenes. It is estimated that the first stage of implementation will result in an additional 218 convictions from 2010 to 2011, while full implementation will result in approximately 445 convictions. Having said that, there will be some who oppose the expansion of the DNA scheme because they see it as an encroachment on human rights, and no doubt members will not have failed to notice the report from the Attorney-General pursuant to section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, which accompanies this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EI do not propose to rehearse the opposing arguments here, as I genuinely encourage the select committee to engage the public in this debate. However, I would like to address some common misconceptions about the way in which DNA profiles are used. The profile currently used by the Institute of Environmental Science and Research for identification contains only a very small portion of the individual\u2019s total DNA profile, and can be deciphered by only a small group of specialist scientists. Even then, the most that can be deduced is the sex of an individual. As such, the risks of inappropriate disclosure of an individual\u2019s confidential genetic information are very low. Unlike the recently criticised United Kingdom DNA scheme, samples in New Zealand\u2014not the profiles, but the samples\u2014will be destroyed as soon as practicable, and DNA profiles will not be retained unless the person is convicted. So if charges are dropped or innocence is found, the DNA profiles will be destroyed. Furthermore, the bill contains very specific provisions regarding the use, storage, and retention of DNA profiles. Any misuse of the DNA sample or profile would, therefore, be subject to the full extent of relevant law and civil rights protections. Finally, the police will develop operational guidelines to avoid any arbitrary or unreasonable application of the proposed power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EI take this opportunity to acknowledge the concerns that have been raised by the M\u0101ori Party that provisions in this bill may be used, in the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s view, to unfairly target M\u0101ori. I am advised that the police will be required to report on the use of DNA sampling on an annual basis, to ensure that the use of this discretion is transparent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThis bill is a proactive approach to DNA, rather than the current system of collection post-conviction for a relatively small group of offences, but it provokes strong opinions. The priority of this Government in the justice portfolio is public safety, and this bill contributes to that goal by giving the police the tools to resolve more crime, and, of course, as the recent television portrayal of the David Dougherty case shows, DNA sampling can provide resolution by exonerating the innocent. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7bb620fe1c74c2185cd7e88ccf7012f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7bb620fe1c74c2185cd7e88ccf7012f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Let me say from the outset that Labour will support, with reservations, the referral of the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill to the select committee. I say that for a number of reasons, which I will get to in a moment, but I also note the point we made during the debate on the last bill that here we are in the dead of night, quite literally, rushing this bill through a first reading with no opportunity for members to read this legislation at length, analyse it, and debate it. Before Mr Hide raises his hackles\u2014we will get to his role in this in a moment\u2014I say that it will go to the select committee for the full 6 months. The point has already been made with the gangs legislation that this is about window dressing. On about day 84, I think, of the 100 days Mr Power and Mr Key can get up and say that they have these bills on the road; they are happening. That is all it is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will raise a couple of things in respect of this bill. Mr Power said that one of the key questions before us is whether we are using DNA technology to its best effect. He admitted that he does not know; the technology changes day to day and month to month. But it is interesting to look at the assessments that are made. Labour agrees that it is essential to use DNA technology. We are not opposed to extending the use of DNA technology. I have to say that, as the record will show, Labour passed the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Act 2003, which made many extensions in respect of DNA sampling. This is where Mr Hide, I am sure, being the bastion of regulation busting, will again take an interest in this bill. This bill has been so rushed that not only did it fail the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act vetting\u2014and I accept Mr Power\u2019s comment that there are a lot of complex issues on both sides of that argument\u2014but also, if one looks at this bill\u2019s regulatory impact statement, which I am sure Mr Hide knows backwards because, as the regulatory buster, he will have scrutinised this legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209471161e4554d43a6c265cc306839e5\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Open and transparent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c064b7c3edc44449f6bf427db465a4a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mr Power says it is open and transparent\u2014it says this under the adequacy statement. I will quote from this section: \u201CTreasury\u2019s Regulatory Impact Analysis Team (RIAT) has not had sufficient time to assess whether or not the regulatory impact analysis (RIA) for this proposal is adequate.\u201D [Interruption] My colleague said that Mr Power should be ashamed. Well, as we read on, I suspect he will shrink lower and lower under the desk. I go on to quote from the adequacy statement: \u201CHowever, we\u201D\u2014that is, Treasury\u2014\u201Chave briefly reviewed the [regulatory impact statement] and consider that this is inadequate on the following grounds:\u201D. Before I get to those, I say that I am reliably informed by my colleague Lianne Dalziel, the previous Minister of Commerce, who takes great interest in these regulatory impact statements, that this is a prizewinner. This is an absolute prizewinner for how badly put together legislation can be. It is absolutely the prizewinner for us. Here is what Treasury said about it, and I will go back a bit: \u201CHowever, we have briefly reviewed the [regulatory impact statement] and consider that this is inadequate on the following grounds: a lack of clarity around the nature of the problems with the current DNA testing regime along with evidence (anecdotal or empirical) to support these;\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccb57b26cc3a454c8fb49da680078c31\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Not even anecdotal evidence!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224224d281da3a4ff48b7cb755bcfbd8c5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: We are not into news clippings now, like we were with the bail bill. The Minister does not even have news clippings to substantiate his claims around DNA testing. There is no empirical evidence, no anecdotal evidence. Mr Hide, of course, with his new hairstyle and all, will have scrutinised this legislation, being the regulatory buster. Then Treasury goes on to state that the regulatory impact statement is inadequate on the second ground: \u201Climited analysis of the impacts of the options. The analysis of costs is partial,\u201D. Mr Power said that once put aside, these DNA tests\u2014which I am told cost around $200 a pop\u2014will be disposed of. I ask him whether he or another speaker will tell the House what the cost of this is, because Mr Power campaigned on having no bureaucracy, on cutting bureaucracy, on cutting costs, on cutting red tape, cutting the administration, and on cutting the waste. None of those questions, as Treasury has pointed out, are addressed in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E So there is limited analysis of the impact of the options. The analysis of cost is partial. For example, only aggregate first-year costs are estimated, and capital costs are excluded. There is no estimate\u2014this is a cracker\u2014of risks such as those associated with implementation, or of how these will be mitigated. Not only does the Government not know what the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill will cost, not only does it have no empirical or even anecdotal evidence, or news clippings, or perhaps printed matter on some other piece of paper, but the Government does not know what it costs, it does not know what the risks are, and it does not really know whether it will have any impact at all in respect of implementation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we get to the last point, and I quote Treasury that the regulatory impact statement \u201Cdoes not report on the outcome of consultation\u201D\u2014yeah, I bet it does not, because the Government has no evidence, and it did not consult anybody, not even the regulatory buster, Mr Hide, haircut and all\u2014\u201Cand how any issues raised have been addressed. Therefore the [regulatory impact statement] does not contain the relevant information or level of analysis required for a proposal of this magnitude.\u201D In other words, this should be a blank piece of paper, because nobody really knows what it means, least of all the Minister. No costs, no evidence, no anecdotal evidence, no nothing, no consultation. If the Minister had gone out and talked to some of the stakeholders, maybe even the agencies, even the police perhaps, he may have got some evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271b765f83d434971a0ca1de867907604\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He talked to Mrs Goudie about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbb36727cf634ff09c749db80080b388\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am reliably informed that the anecdotal evidence, such as it is, has been provided by one Sandra Goudie. Again, it points to the classic member down the back here, Mr Hide, being asleep at the wheel\u2014the man who was going to cut red tape, regulation, everything. He was going to do it. \u201CSend your problems to Mr Hide,\u201D he said on Holmes, \u201CSend them to me: I will fix them, I will cut the cost.\u201D He was too lazy, too inept, and too silly to even read the bill. I wonder whether he will stand up tonight and say \u201CI have read it, and I agree. We don\u2019t know how much it is going to cost. We don\u2019t know how it\u2019s going to work. We don\u2019t have any evidence. We don\u2019t know how it\u2019s going to be implemented\u2014we know nothing about it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fec7f7a180444d6a9790f7eb44ce2bb0\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: There might be a miracle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a792a5029ea4021a15e38d3728c38b7\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It might be a miracle. He might be able to claim that he has earned some of his salary. I think we are up to five bills now that the great regulatory buster, Mr Hide, has let slip through with failed regulatory impact statements. He might want to intervene. I ask whether Mr Hide has read the regulatory impact statement, whether he knows how much it will cost, and whether he was consulted. He has his glasses on; there is hope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Power, in all seriousness, that Labour agrees that we should use technology to combat crime. We acted on that when we extended DNA sampling when we were in Government. I think Mr Power has made history tonight. In my experience\u2014and I have been here only 9 years but others also tell me\u2014that this is the worst condemnation of a bill. A key central agency, Treasury, has said that this is inadequate, that it is rushed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fb94e4f223143268c2533a80309375f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Flimflam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee35e54236914e76aac4f1d0f361e118\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014no, worse than flimflam\u2014and that it is based on no empirical or even anecdotal evidence. At least with the bail legislation before Christmas the Minister managed to dredge out a couple of mouldy, moth-eaten, flea-bitten press clippings to say \u201Cthis is my evidence for doing it\u201D, even though we know the bail legislation changed nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe will vote for this bill to be referred to the Law and Order Committee, and I will really enjoy getting the Treasury people in and teasing out of them their exact views on this legislation. I will really enjoy Mr Hide\u2019s submission, because, of course, the regulatory buster will want to relay his great knowledge on how he will cut out waste and red tape, yet he lets this one slip, slide, and grease through the keeper because he has not even read it. No evidence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291be649787ba4620b7e46f1373b95a9d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s stunning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229807c278913a459c807f1afcfb588234\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It is a stunning admission by Treasury that there is no anecdotal evidence to back up the claims in this bill. It is absolutely stunning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f80adb46835e4735ac7488f47b9d5da1\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He should resign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022648044d507f84d6bbf50bcb6d15d1caa\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know. Maybe the Minister was so secretive about this legislation that he took himself hostage, and he did not feel it was appropriate that he read the bill before it came in the House either. Maybe Simon Power thought he had better not release his legislation to himself so he could read it, let alone any of his colleagues. Maybe that is what he did. Mr Power stands condemned for not doing his job, and for bringing inadequate legislation. This is simply about going to the people on day 16 or whatever it is and saying \u201CWe have had 100 days, and haven\u2019t I been a smart politician, I\u2019ve introduced this legislation.\u201D It is substandard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022a310510e1b21448eabeae3663fe4cf72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a310510e1b21448eabeae3663fe4cf72\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that was pretty much what we have come to expect from the member who has just resumed his seat. He cannot attack ideas, and he cannot attack the fact that the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill is good legislation that will go a long way down the track towards saving potential victims. All he can do is try to slap around the fact that it slipped past him. If he has been through a campaign such as the one we have been through and did not catch on to the fact that a National Government would introduce exactly this legislation, we need to ask who was not doing his job. The member was not doing his job. He was not representing the people of his electorate, and he certainly was not doing his job of representing Labour Party constituents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThere is another important factor to note: the Attorney-General has studied this legislation and provided a report under section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. What is required of the Attorney-General in a case like this is to do the job, and to look at the bill and its implications in terms of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. We can stack that up against the record of the former Attorneys-General under the Labour Government. I ask what happened then. Did Margaret Wilson, when she was the Attorney-General, do that sort of scrutiny of the foreshore and seabed legislation? No, she did not. What about Michael Cullen; did he perform that sort of scrutiny of the Electoral Finance Bill? No, he did not. What is required of the Attorney-General in preparing a report such as this is to be objective and aloof, and if there is one thing I can say about my little cousin Mr Finlayson, it is that he is objective and aloof. Some would say he is objectionable, but I would leap to his defence, and I am sure his other cousin who is sitting opposite would agree totally with me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI would like Clayton Cosgrove to have a wee think about this. How many people who break into homes in the middle of the night and rape, like the \u201CParnell Panther\u201D did, did not start off their offending with low-level crime? How many did not start off by kicking around the streets, kicking over rubbish bins, smashing windows, and doing rats-and-mice burglaries? Now, when those offenders are locked up for those sorts of offences, they will have a DNA sample taken from them. It will be converted into a profile and that will be held on record. The rest of New Zealand applauds that. They say: \u201CGood job, too!\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EPreviously, when the police took a rapist along to the doctor and those samples were taken, the rapist\u2019s hair was combed to retrieve hair follicles. The police stood next to that rapist while the doctor held his penis in his or her hands and shoved a Q-tip the size of a power pole down the end of the old fella to get a bit of penile secretion. That is intrusive. But we are talking now about a DNA sample that is collected by a Q-tip going inside the cheek and taking a swab, which is then put into a plastic bag. That is as intrusive a measure as this piece of legislation provides for, and if anyone objects to that he or she does not understand the situation and is not prepared to listen to an explanation of it. The fact is that DNA sampling is far less intrusive than having 10 big police officers roll the fingers of an unwilling person who has been arrested, in order to take his or her fingerprints. DNA testing is no more than a modern-day fingerprint, and the profile can be destroyed as soon as the charges are withdrawn or the defendant is found to be not guilty. I do not understand the objection that member has to this legislation, apart from the fact that he never had the courage to raise it in the House in his term in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ed260a331354b47940bc648b7dbe2b8\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022810ad63c4e154f78b09fe3e5686e3c3f\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286395f4837b64ea1a5aefe2ebf54d6a4\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d94ff0f4f0b748b2bc464948a5c74b48\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down. We are getting into the habit of taking swipes at each other through points of order. I have made this clear before. When any member raises a point of order it must be terse and to the point, and it is not to be used to score points. Now, if the member has a serious point of order, he should make it tersely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d4d1fbf40d844eaafcf8d28d5a7a82a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I do, and it is simply\u2014[Interruption] Can I finish?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228080b7853d0045eba21546b8b8c8f99b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I do not know. You have already contradicted me, which is out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222de9faf3edb14b889b568d85b83b87b6\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I agreed with you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299ab5d9732084826a93358105c89fa75\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet. You told a member to sit down, but it is not your job to rule the House. Make your point of order tersely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022341a095674744225ae7bf671775c3f9a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: It is totally out of order to question a member\u2019s courage. I am sure that you, as a senior officer of the House, realise that. Had I been allowed to conclude more than two words, that would have been the terse point of order that I made. I would invite you to rule on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d6035587c8b44afba8634c71a17b64b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is correct, and the member who was speaking must withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228912c13f256e4eaca5bfeab613b269a8\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022217e830842474bab900ed8e0a220329a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Have you finished your speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e0630bdbc943b1afb3fd1b53cb48da\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a636e08b218b48f6b0a8c685d5f8084d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a636e08b218b48f6b0a8c685d5f8084d\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I will traverse the elements of the regulatory impact statement, which was so eloquently referred to by my colleague the Hon Clayton Cosgrove. But I begin with reference to the fact that we have the report of the Attorney-General on whether the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill complies with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. I think it is important that the House gives consideration to it. I am very disappointed that the Minister of Justice did nothing other than make reference to its existence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis is the first time for a very long time that the Attorney-General has reported\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ec997328d644e0494d6fb5d0a123242\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Look at the stats of the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c207c6d95848b6a12bc197d9cdb627\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I would be very interested to look at the statistics. If the Minister had referred to this in his speech, then\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221592c87e4f044a72afd3325d681ce133\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cfa17add98e4b9388b845ac63d7c610\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: The member did nothing but refer to it. He did not say on how many occasions we have put up with being asked to proceed down a pathway that will see us contravening a pretty fundamental piece of law in this country, and that is the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. This process allows us as a Parliament to vote in favour of legislative changes that take us outside the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. That is what the process is designed to do. I think it is important that every member of Parliament knows that in voting in favour of this bill we are voting in favour of law changes that fundamentally breach the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Everyone needs to know that. I think it is important that people have a discussion about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Labour Opposition is committed to this bill going to a select committee, so we will not vote against its first reading. We think that this bill could actually be improved to the point that it would no longer breach the provisions of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. When the select committee considers the bill it should consider the Attorney-General\u2019s report, with specific reference to this finding: \u201CWith the exception of the United Kingdom decisions, which have now been effectively reversed by the [European Court of Human Rights], there appears to be a consensus in jurisdictions which provide for a right against search and seizure that DNA sampling regimes must be subject to strict substantive and procedural safeguards; \u2026 DNA databanks appear to operate successfully in the many comparable jurisdictions which apply such substantive and procedural safeguards.\u201D The Attorney-General could find no basis on which to conclude that New Zealand differs from either of these positions to such a degree that these safeguards are unnecessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThat is a very worthy report, but it cannot just end there. It cannot just be brushed off in Parliament as having been prepared and tabled. We need to debate the seriousness of actually making such a change to the law that breaches our obligations under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. I hope that members of other parties take a call on this particular issue, because I think it is pretty fundamental, and it is important that the select committee deals with it in detail. That is the particularly serious matter that I want to draw the House\u2019s attention to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe less serious issue\u2014although it is actually equivalently serious in a different way\u2014is the regulatory impact statement. I know that we have all laughed as the detailed reporting of Treasury has been read out, but there are two aspects of the adequacy statement in the regulatory impact statement that I want to draw to the House\u2019s attention. I want the select committee to look at these as well. The Ministry of Justice thought the adequacy criteria were met in the case of this bill. The Ministry of Justice\u2014the ministry responsible for the drafting instructions for this bill\u2014said the regulatory impact statement was adequate. Treasury\u2019s regulatory impact analysis team said the complete opposite. The positions are not able to be rationalised at all. There is no point at which one could find any similarity between the two positions. So I think that requires some serious consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIt is very interesting that the Government somehow seems to think that if it makes a statement of objective\u2014namely, \u201CThe measures proposed will substantially increase the size of the DNA profile databank. This increased databank will aid criminal investigations by both linking offenders on the databank to previously unsolved crime scenes and potentially to future crime scenes.\u201D\u2014then \u201CDNA\u2019s role in solving more crimes and prosecuting more offenders will in turn contribute to increasing public safety \u2026 \u201D. There is nothing in any of the information that has been provided for the development of the regulatory impact statement or, indeed, for the Government\u2019s consideration of this very bill\u2014no evidence\u2014to back up that claim, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ETreasury goes so far as to say that not only is there no empirical evidence but also there is not even any anecdotal evidence. I do not even describe anecdote as evidence. In fact, I think it is an oxymoron to say \u201Canecdotal evidence\u201D, because it either is evidence or is not. Anecdote is not evidence; it is simply anecdote. There is not even that to support this regime being implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EBefore we go down the track of introducing such a major change, which breaches the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, an in-depth cost-benefit analysis should be undertaken. But it is really hard to do a cost-benefit analysis when one does not know what the nature of the problem is. The first thing Treasury said was that there was \u201Ca lack of clarity around the nature of the problems with the current regime\u201D. So if one cannot define the current problem, how can one define the benefit of a change to the current policy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that as part of a cost-benefit analysis one also needs to have the cost. Guess what? The Government has provided estimates of the aggregate first-year costs, and capital costs are excluded. Why is that? It is because the Government has no idea what the cost will actually be. Guess what? Police guidelines will be drawn up around the use of the discretion, and the Government does not know how many people will be required to provide samples in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAll I am saying is that when members of the select committee receive this bill they will require a heck of a lot more than a simple statement from the Ministry of Justice that this regulatory impact statement meets the adequacy criteria, whereas Treasury\u2019s regulatory impact analysis team, which is obviously able to provide far more in-depth analysis than the Ministry of Justice\u2014which may in fact be self-interested in this regard\u2014states that there really is not the information to back this up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhat really bothers me about this legislation is the question of what it is really designed to do. I think we find the answer further on in the explanatory note, which essentially states that this is part of the Government\u2019s commitment to the 100 days of action. Therefore, this bill is being introduced in order to meet the Government\u2019s objective of being seen to be doing things. Here we go: \u201C\u2026 to implement the Government\u2019s 100 Day Actions, mean that at this stage only indicative costings can be provided for full implementation of the proposals.\u201D So the Government is doing this only to be seen to be doing something, rather than doing in-depth analysis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI make one final point. The original legislation was based on having a propensity link. That is the whole point of having convictions that are relevant convictions. That is the whole point. We will find that a rapist has a history of burglary offences, which is why burglary is one of the relevant offences. Once the Government turns this into a free-for-all for all convictions that potentially could carry a prison sentence of any length, it will flood the system with a lot of irrelevant data, which will not produce anything of any merit. It might have a one in a thousand hit, or a one in ten thousand hit, but the Government does not know what that will be, or what cost there will be to the real policing techniques that are needed on the ground, because DNA evidence does not always provide the answer that people would seek it to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00223f43edf6417d42ad9d2c36aa3b5772da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f43edf6417d42ad9d2c36aa3b5772da\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is the first day back at Parliament and I think MPs are just getting into the swing of things. There is a very early start\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022186cce7c66f843bb83616ab1f57e81a2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: What is your point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022947b3b0d8f0f45ef88f5a61da2748323\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave for the House to rise just a minute early rather starting into my speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3638d9469134584b5373f3b9cfb2d97\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for the House to rise at this point. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022addc45345cda4a53825e9e266eef0a22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022addc45345cda4a53825e9e266eef0a22\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I agree with the last speaker that the report of the Attorney-General, Chris Finlayson, is a very strong critique of the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill. It states that the bill is inconsistent with the right against reasonable search and seizure, as affirmed in section 21 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The Minister also refers to the intrusive nature of DNA samples, quoting from the European Court of Human Rights: \u201CUnlike a fingerprint, it is capable of revealing the most intimate details of a person\u2019s biological make up. \u2026 The taking and retention of a DNA sample is not a trivial matter and, absent a compelling public interest, would inherently constitute a grave intrusion on the subject\u2019s right to personal and informational privacy.\u201D I will be interested to hear the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s contribution on this bill, because I think the forcible extraction of blood from a person who is not even charged with an offence will be seen as offensive by many in the community. From what I understand about tikanga, to many M\u0101ori it is offensive and we should not support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe controls in the system are very weak. As the Attorney-General says, they are weaker than in any country but the United Kingdom. In the United Kingdom\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220873478914764209ad116e2e8a55f58d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member but the time has come for me to leave the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fcb0368e81b148ec8dccb6406231fcab\u0022\u003ETuesday, 10 February 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a426dcbbed41486c880474bbbc96ed08\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 11 February 2009)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225fa678cbc88a4975ad947392a7a50cbf\u0022\u003ECriminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225314a49ba0204287adaf2507de8909a1\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000701\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00220ab060319f89496ba8468c1e96cc5bfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ab060319f89496ba8468c1e96cc5bfd\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will be voting against this bill, in line with the report to the House of the Attorney-General, Christopher Finlayson, that this measure is not justified under section 21 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, against \u201CUnreasonable search and seizure\u201D. The bill intrudes on privacy, and it intrudes on the privacy of one\u2019s body to have samples taken when it is not absolutely necessary to do so. I was listening to the respected M\u0101ori commentator Moana Jackson on the radio this morning. He mentioned the questions of tapu in M\u0101ori society in relation to taking bodily samples, and he was worried about cases when the person had been arrested. But in this bill, it is not just when people have been arrested; bodily samples can be forced out of people when, under new section 24J(1)(b), inserted by clause 7, \u201Ca constable has good cause to suspect the person of committing a relevant offence and intends to bring proceedings against the person \u2026\u201D\u2014\u201Cand intends\u201D means just something that happens to be in the constable\u2019s mind. There are no controls on it and no requirement actually to then charge the person. In fact, the legislation puts in a 2-month window, saying that after the person has had the sample taken, the authorities have 2 months to check that sample against every sample inside every database in sight. Then after 2 months they have to get rid of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003ESo this allows for an open-slather collection of bodily samples from virtually anyone in the community. There does not have to be any evidence whatsoever that the person is guilty of a crime in order to take the sample. At least, that is an improvement on the British situation, where a huge database is being built up. In New Zealand, if a person is not later charged and convicted, then the sample and profile are supposed to be got rid of. But in terms of its lack of controls, the Attorney-General\u2019s audit of this bill recommends that the bill does not proceed. He says that it is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThis legislation allows for more and more DNA on the database to be built up, and that is a real problem. It is a step down the road to what we see in the United Kingdom, where 7 percent of the British population are now on its DNA database. Now that the authorities have the right to take DNA samples from virtually anyone without evidence, obviously they will go after people and say \u201CHold on\u2014you can give it voluntarily. We have got the right, but you can give it voluntarily.\u201D, and once someone gives a sample voluntarily, it can then be sitting on the database for evermore. So we will see a huge problem with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI think there are a number of problems here. One is the accidental misuse of samples. A scientist on Radio New Zealand\u2019s Morning Report this morning said that the science is not entirely accurate. In this case, when over a 2-month period scientists are trying to match a sample against a whole database, mistakes can be made. As well, the Privacy Commissioner is worried about one agency, the police, controlling both ends of the system, and says there should at least be a separation between the agency that controls the database, and the police who are investigating a crime scene. There can be wrong matches, and there can be almost a vested interest in the institution of the police to solve crimes, which can lead to errors, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe House of Lords in Britain this week expressed serious concern. It issued a report that warned that the national DNA database there could be used for \u201Cmalign purposes\u201D. Of course, this relates to the whole issue of national identification cards and universal identifiers, which could be misused\u2014not necessarily by the democratic Governments of today but by a less democratic Government in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E It relates to the whole question that they refer to in their report. I quote a bit out of the House of Lords report, headed by the former Tory chief whip, Lord Goodlad: \u201CThe huge rise in surveillance and data collection by the State and other organisations risks undermining the longstanding traditions of privacy and individual freedom, which are vital for democracy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI think that our Attorney-General is quite right to raise those issues, as well. In his report, he said that \u201CThe use of DNA material for data bank comparison purposes, as distinct from investigation of a particular suspected offence, also necessarily constitutes a broader intrusion into privacy.\u201D There is a huge issue here, and it is linked with other surveillance issues in the United Kingdom. The UK has 4 million closed-circuit television cameras, and it is going further down the track towards a surveillance society than other Western societies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EOne of the problems with the legislation here is that it creeps towards a surveillance society. One might say that this bit of legislation is only taking it one step further, but once this is passed the Government might want to go further towards the British situation and have a more permanent database, not bothering to get rid of records on a person who is not convicted as they could be of some use in the future. Gradually, it could be built up to a universal DNA database. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe intrusion on people\u2019s bodies is of concern, too. It is happening in a number of areas. Obviously, our DNA is something quite precious to us. There have been articles in the paper recently about the genome sequence and how it is easy to produce those; when one is born, one gets a genome sequence. Then there are all the problems with genome sequences and DNA being used by insurance companies, etc., to deny people coverage. There are a whole lot of social and ethical problems. In some ways, science is going ahead of our ethical considerations of some of these problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe see an intrusion on people\u2019s bodies in a number of ways. There are DNA and genome sequences, the closed-circuit television cameras that can monitor one\u2019s every movement or the every movement of cars around Britain, as more or less happens now. We can see it in the x-ray systems that are at airports, where there is virtually a naked image of someone. We can see it in the iris-scanning technology, which is quite intrusive and is starting to be brought in, in Australia. That is creeping in here with the permission for iris-scanning in New Zealand legislation that was recently passed. Altogether, I think we should wake up. It is good that the House of Lords, quite a respectable and conservative body, is sounding a lot of alarms in Britain. We should listen to people like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4a8acb4e6184f008e316339518fef60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4a8acb4e6184f008e316339518fef60\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT party to support the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill, but I have to say it is with some reservations. If this bill was not going to select committee, I would have some very serious personal reservations about supporting it for reasons that I will come to. Before I do that, I would like to address in a different way an issue that was raised yesterday by a number of members, and was also raised before Christmas. It is the delays in providing draft legislation. I do not think anyone would argue that what has happened in the last wee while is ideal, but the Government is committed to its programme, which we support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EIn my view, the problem in some respects is due to the style of legislation that we seem fixated on in this country. If we look at our laws, we see that it is not uncommon to find a provision such as section 23(1)(a)(iii)(A)(i). It refers in turn to another endless, convoluted clause and subclause. We have been doing that for 100 years, as if there is no other way. Well, there actually is another way; there are many other ways. I have been practising law for 17 years, and even my head hurts when I try to figure out what some laws mean, especially when they refer, as many law-and-order laws do, to other laws such as the Sentencing Act. There seems to be a complete resistance to any idea of looking at a different way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EI had the pleasure of running into an old professor of mine a day or so ago, Professor John Burrows QC, who is now a law commissioner. Professor Burrows taught me 20 years ago, and I recall to this day his legislation course, which covered a number of areas, such as how to interpret legislation\u2014that was a biggie\u2014but also how to draft, and different styles that different countries use. After 17 or 18 years I still remember an exercise we did trying to figure out the citizenship of a child born of British parents in France versus a child born of French parents in Britain. From memory\u2014I am a little vague here\u2014in the British situation we had to look at seven pieces of sometimes conflicting legislation, and in the French situation there were two. So I would like to make a wee plea to the drafting office to call Professor John Burrows. He is a lovely chap and a real gentleman. He will be too busy to do anything himself, but I am sure he will advise the drafting office on a better way of doing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003ETo come back to the bill, as I have said, I have some reservations about it. Mr Locke has touched on a few. I too have some concerns about the provision that allows samples to be taken from persons intended to be charged. I can see that that goes down a very slippery slope, as Mr Locke has said, of police saying that perhaps individuals would like to give a sample to them voluntarily or, if not, they can then consider charging them and those individuals might wish to rethink their position. I think it is entirely appropriate that this bill is scrutinised by a select committee, particularly because of its length, its complexity, and the wide number of issues it raises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EHaving said all of that, the left side of this House, to use the old, stale left-right dichotomy, is always fixated on the downside. There are always the problems of intrusion and Big Brother searching into your diseases and what have you, but what is often overlooked is the positive exonerative effects of DNA. There are many, many cases. Some members will be familiar with the fact that in the United States up to 30 people, I think, have been released from life sentences for murder\u2014with a couple or three of them even coming off death row, which is absolutely chilling\u2014and they have been released because DNA has exonerated them. It can be a very positive tool as well as a convicting tool. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand we have the case mentioned very briefly yesterday by the Hon Simon Power of David Dougherty. That was a case where if we had had samples from the odious Nicholas Reekie, who was later convicted of the rape that Dougherty was falsely convicted for, two things would have happened: Mr Dougherty would never have gone to jail and had his life destroyed, and Nicholas Reekie would not have raped the woman whom he raped, which led to his conviction for the crime that Dougherty did not commit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThe Hon Lianne Dalziel yesterday mentioned cost. Well, it cost the State close on $1 million in compensation, plus God knows how much extra in legal costs, to compensate Dougherty for the 4 years he spent in jail\u2014wrongfully. I have to say that very little credit is to be given to the then Government for the ridiculous and ever more absurd scenarios that it tried to dream up when it became obvious to a blind man that Dougherty was innocent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E There are many positive things from having DNA on the database. Yesterday the Hon Lianne Dalziel said\u2014correctly\u2014that samples can now be taken but only when people are convicted. That is all very well, but I go back to Dougherty and Reekie again. If Reekie\u2019s DNA had been on the database for his earlier, less serious convictions, Dougherty would not have gone to jail wrongfully and Reekie would not have committed his second crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EA DNA match is not conclusive of guilt; it is just a tool, it is just some evidence. The samples will be kept only if a suspect is convicted and again, I have to say, that the points made by Mr Locke in my view, are valid\u2014at least in terms of examining them at select committee. It is all very well to say that records will be destroyed. There are also issues surrounding the extent of the DNA evidence or the DNA profile that is kept. I am not a scientist by any means but my understanding is that there are different levels of what can be discerned from DNA. A profile of an offender is one thing but then one can go to whole different levels to look at things about the offender\u2014or the prospective offender\u2014such as disease history, which are of no relevance at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EHowever any law like this involves a balance. We have to accept that there is some invasion of privacy and in any such situation we need to look at what is the greater good. It is a bit of an old clich\u00E9 but notwithstanding all of the concerns that Mr Locke has expressed\u2014and some I have said that I share\u2014no one who is innocent of a crime has any real concern about a DNA profile being kept of him or her. If the DNA profile is purely for identification of that person and not to provide a medical history or to show a propensity for genetic diseases or whatever, then maybe, sadly, we have got to the stage where that invasion of privacy is minor. As it is, we are talking about a pinprick in the finger. Mr Locke talked very emotionally yesterday about forcible removal of blood being against M\u0101ori culture. Well, we are talking about a pinprick. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EAll in all, I support this bill with some reservations and I am very happy that it is going to a select committee for further scrutiny. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022d27df2c0d09a4ef99ed7b9621a31b4fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d27df2c0d09a4ef99ed7b9621a31b4fd\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E M\u014Drena. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa, i t\u0113nei ata. Sixteen years ago, in 1993, the Indigenous People\u2019s Council on Biocolonialism established itself to oppose the Human Genome Diversity Project\u2014a global genetic research project that evolved from the collection of indigenous people\u2019s DNA. Later, in 2005, the National Geographic Society in collaboration with the computer giant IBM sponsored the Genographic Project, which again sought to collect 100,000 DNA samples from the indigenous peoples around the world, in Australia, Brazil, North America, South-east Asia, and South Africa\u2014to name a few places. Again, the Indigenous People\u2019s Council on Biocolonialism spoke up, opposing the trend to treat the indigenous subject as a scientific curiosity. Indigenous DNA is clearly a commodity worth having. The M\u0101ori Party believes in the sacredness of whakapapa, of genealogical connections, or bloodlines, and we believe there is no room for doubt when DNA is concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAround the world indigenous groups are now far more alert to the risks of biopiracy and, as such, any legislation that proposes the collection and storage of genetic materials will confront a host of ethical, human, and collective rights issues. When rights are involved, inevitably so are lawyers and courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWhat does not help in terms of the backdrop to this bill is that just over 2 months ago the European Court of Human Rights ruled against the law enforcement policies of the British Government in respect of the commitment to gather and store the fingerprints and DNA of all criminal subjects. The court\u2019s ruling concluded that the practice was a violation of the human right to privacy; describing the police\u2019s decision to keep DNA stored on the database as having \u201Coverstepped any acceptable margin of appreciation\u201D in striking a balance between individual rights and public interest. Where the British practice varies with our situation is that in their case the police seek to hold DNA material indefinitely in their database, even of those who have turned out to be innocent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe Strasbourg ruling, or the European court ruling, has implications for our Parliament in throwing wide open the issue of how to insure a check on the powers of the State. Similarly, my research found that in the United States the Havasupai tribe filed a lawsuit in 2004 against the Arizona State University for the taking and misuse of their genetic samples. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EPoliticians, scientists, and law enforcement agencies around the globe are being held accountable for their use of the genetic material of targeted populations. And so it will be with this bill too where the police are granted discretionary power to take compulsory DNA evidence at the point of charging. This, as others have said, is a concern for us. Although we are pleased that the police will be required to annually reveal the statistics around the use of the tool, including whether it is overused on matters of ethnicity, we wanted to simply state the obvious: that any intervention involving DNA will be watched very closely by M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ETo be precise, the M\u0101ori Party has five specific concerns around the use of the DNA sample proposed in this bill. The first and the most fundamental is that surrounding ethics and human rights, and other speakers have spoken on this. The bill proposes to empower police with the ability to take DNA from any person that police intend to charge with any imprisonable offence, including young people. Where the waters become muddied, however, is whether these powers to take DNA samples should be discretionary. To be upfront, the application of discretion when applied to M\u0101ori has never worked in the interests of M\u0101ori. Countless research studies have provided evidence that given the risk of police bias and overscrutiny of M\u0101ori, DNA testing will affect M\u0101ori disproportionately. The research demonstrates that systematic factors operate at one or more steps of the criminal justice process, which make it more likely for M\u0101ori people to be apprehended, arrested, charged, convicted, and imprisoned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn a study describing the overrepresentation of M\u0101ori in the criminal justice system just 18 months ago the Department of Corrections described these processes variously as: \u201Cunintended consequences of discretion\u201D; \u201Cunevenness of decision making\u201D; \u201Cbias\u201D; and \u201Cinstitutional racism\u201D. In addition, the risk of apprehension for M\u0101ori is often amplified because of formal and informal profiling by the official agencies\u2014that is, a particular truth is created around ethnicity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe element of discretion is the single most concern for the M\u0101ori Party, and, indeed, for a range of human rights advocates and groups. We noted a comment by Council for Civil Liberties\u2019 spokesman Michael Bott yesterday that allowing for wider powers to take and use samples from people legally considered innocent, and without approval from the courts, was a major concern. We have no doubt that these concerns will be presented in full force throughout the select committee consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EA related issue for the party, is that associated with the construction of a DNA database. Members in the House who, like me, have come from a teaching background may recall some discussion and chatter in the staffroom where the negative behaviour of one child was generalised to stigmatise all the siblings of that child who were attending the school, saying something like: \u201CIt is that family\u2014what can we expect?\u201D. It is not right, and it is not fair, but it does happen. In much the same way there are DNA testing implications for the wider wh\u0101nau, as well as individuals as first and second degree relatives, because they can be identified through genetic testing, thus allowing the authorities to build up a family history. Theoretically, DNA testing can enable police to create a DNA profile of the wider M\u0101ori population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWhat this all translates into is the third issue\u2014the issue of trust regarding the police guardianship of the DNA database. There will be in the minds of the public, issues of trust about police holding such information, including concern about who is tested, how the information is used, and whether those protocols will be sustained. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E A fourth issue is the one related to the actual collection, utilisation, and storage to ensure there are appropriate parameters in place as to how the DNA material will be used. Our concern is that there is a fair and consistent system for sample collection that complies with the relevant international conventions, including the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. We remember clearly in early 2000, in the Labour Government\u2019s first term, the huge storm that erupted around the police action in Whangarei concerning the taking of fingerprints of children. Former Police Commissioner Rob Robinson had apparently told the Law and Order Committee about situations where some very young children had their fingerprints taken. Supposedly, this information was intended to deter them from a life of crime. We are concerned about the vulnerability of children and young people, and will be watching to see that appropriate and additional protections are in place to protect their rights, and we have had some discussion with the Minister about this matter. We must ensure that proper ethical controls are in place, covering every aspect of the collection, utilisation, and storage of the databank. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe final concern is the budget implications of the proposed changes. There is already a huge law and order budget, and we hope the Minister will be able to clarify how much additional resource will be channelled into policing tools and devices such as DNA testing and Taser guns, in comparison with the resources allocated for crime prevention, restorative justice measures, and strategies to support the police in enhancing community relations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe issue of DNA testing is a complex one. The positive benefits of convicting serious offenders sit alongside a host of worrying issues that we cannot and must not ignore. We do not support this bill going forward, but we are aware that there is sufficient support for it to move at least to debate in the select committee. At this junction we will be looking particularly to see how our concerns are addressed about the likely impact on M\u0101ori and the use of discretion. We know that some work was initiated on the unintended consequences of discretion, and we believe it would be timely for that work to be completed and put before the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe project I speak about was initiated by the Ministry of Justice, in consultation with Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, and undertaken in 2007-08. Discretion is a key concern for us with this bill, and we recommend an analysis of this project as a key document for the select committee. The M\u0101ori Party will not be supporting this bill. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7131cfa4b654a09a6012ac2d54b871b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7131cfa4b654a09a6012ac2d54b871b\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The previous speaker, Te Ururoa Flavell, made careful and considered comments that I am sure will be examined by the Justice and Electoral Committee to which this bill is referred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI would like to briefly make these comments, and I start by saying that the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill is another key plank in the Government\u2019s law and order package. We are not afraid to walk the talk and take the necessary action to create safer homes, safer streets, and safer neighbourhoods. As others have said, the bill allows for the staged implementation of its changes. It takes into account New Zealand\u2019s fiscal situation, and allows the gathering of further information about the impact of full implementation. Staged implementation will also allow the Institute of Environmental Science and Research to adjust to the inevitable increase in its workflow. By 2011, the Government will have provided our police with the power to conduct DNA tests for every person charged with an imprisonable offence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThere are some people, and Mr Locke exemplifies that type of person, who have raised privacy concerns in connection with this legislation. That is a legitimate concern, as are the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act concerns that others have raised. But the reality, of course, is if someone has done nothing wrong, he or she has nothing to fear. DNA profiling will ensure that a person is not wrongly convicted of a crime. It has an exculpatory and exonerative role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe bill contains specific provisions regarding the use and storage of DNA profiles, and, as is the case with fingerprints and photos, DNA records will be destroyed as soon as is practicable where charges are dropped or a person is cleared of charges. The reality is that at a physical crime scene there are almost invariably traces of blood, semen, and hair to be found. By permitting DNA samples to be taken through the sanction of the law and appropriate protective provisions, the police will have added to their tool kit of investigative resource another means of protecting and resolving criminal activity. I welcome the passage of this bill and its detailed review by the select committee. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebbf16bad1ac42cc81ad1ef089c6b236\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebbf16bad1ac42cc81ad1ef089c6b236\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to comment on the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Bill. I rise with heavy reservations around this bill. In fact, I have noted heavy reservations being expressed by a number of my colleagues and counterparts in this House. The most recent of those reservations was expressed by Mr Worth. I do not know whether anybody else picked up on it, but he noted the staged implementation of the bill. I can only assume\u2014and he in fact said this\u2014that that is to allow us time to figure out whether we have got this measure right. Now, that sounds like a heavy reservation to me. That is poor policy-making. I also heard reservations, more significantly perhaps, being expressed by my colleague in the ACT Party. There were areas in which we, unusually, share the same view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb8fde7fbd64495abf223a9bd57e6e4f\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Not many. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdfb16245909400aa1fa85f934282b1d\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: There were not many, but I will acknowledge that they do exist. Reservations were also expressed by the Attorney-General, and I will spend a bit of time dwelling on those, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d45490b72647c98b599934a9c9e790\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: That is worrying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289066324879249d4ae5cb04e2858a157\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It is very worrying; it is, in fact, extraordinary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI will focus on two areas in my short address. Firstly, one of our concerns, which we have already expressed, is around process. It is absolutely unacceptable that 50 pages of commentary and bill should be tabled 2 to 3 hours before this House is due to debate the bill, in an area of such significance. Clearly, the National Government believes it is of significance, because why else would the bill be included in an urgency motion? The bill is of sufficient significance to be included in that motion, but we are unable to have the amount of time required to give it the scrutiny it deserves. Once again we have seen this House be misused by this Government, and that is an absolute disgrace. I think that begs the question of why there is such speed. I have seen some quotes given by members of this House around why expediency may occur in this policy area. I note a particular quote on this issue: \u201CHe has clearly timed it for this election and that has to be seen as something of an electioneering stunt.\u201D That was a statement made by Wayne Mapp in 2002, when we made amendments to the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Act. National clearly sees fiddling with this legislation as a matter of political expediency, and that has come at the expense of good policy-making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOn that point I will go back, if I may, to first principles. In the Labour Party we do not object to the use of technology to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of criminal investigation\u2014of course we do not. If there are reasonable ways in which these technologies can be used with the appropriate safeguards, we would of course like to see them being used. But it is important that we ensure we are doing so in the most effective, efficient, and targeted way possible, with the necessary safeguards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf62f4e4316c45d1a67cf2129539e425\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: You could have done that 9 years ago. You\u2019ve had 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226034acdcca4e47ea9e9f6438243e1461\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: For the education of Mr Quinn, who, with all due respect, I know is new to this House, I say that perhaps he might like to reflect on what Labour did around this legislation when it was in Government. He will see that we made massive gains. We have the highest hit rate in the world for DNA samples, because we changed the principal Act to target burglary. In targeting burglary we ensured that we targeted the early symptoms shown by criminals who were about to escalate their offending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI will compare our hit rate with that of the United Kingdom. It has already been raised today by Mr Locke that the United Kingdom has one of the highest sample rates we can see in the world. It is about 6 or 7 percent of the population. The equivalent of all of New Zealand is on a DNA database in the UK. Have we seen the equivalent hit rate that we see in New Zealand? No. That begs the question of whether doing more sampling means we are more effective in the resolution of crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E Now, what we have not seen from National in the analysis on this bill is the justification for the heavy expansion in those who are included in DNA testing, as well as for the cost of that. In fact, I know this has already been raised by my esteemed colleagues, but I want to reflect on the view of Treasury\u2019s regulatory impact analysis team, because I think it is significant. I would, however, like to commend Mr Power for including information on that in the commentary on the bill. Unlike Mr English, he is not scared to share Treasury\u2019s view. Treasury\u2019s view is that there is a lack of clarity around the nature of the problems with the current DNA testing regime, along with a lack of evidence, anecdotal or empirical, to support these measures. A lack of evidence results in poor policy-making. There is limited analysis of the impacts of the options. In fact, in the analysis of the options that we have been presented with, there is a short, more limited introduction, followed by full unmitigated testing of everyone before he or she has even been convicted of any imprisonable offence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe Attorney-General has picked up that this issue is of huge concern, because there are no longer the safeguards that we would expect to find in such a regime. We see those safeguards in Canada, Australia, and even the USA, and in the one place where we have not seen them it now appears that the measure has been highly contested in the European Court on the basis of what it has done to human rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EFrom our perspective, this bill detracts from the real issue. There are gains to be made here. If we can improve the way the regime works\u2014for instance, by reverting to the police commissioner\u2019s submission that was made in 2002, which stated that it may be advisable to look at all offences punishable by up to 3 years in prison\u2014we may capture a greater precursor range of offences that will lead to more serious offending. That might be worth looking at. Instead, the National Government, without analysis, has gone the whole hog in terms of all imprisonable offences and has removed the safeguards. That is a key point and a key concern of the Attorney-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to reflect a little not only on the human rights issue attached to this measure but also on the cost issue. There is a reason why we need to be proportionate in terms of what we target. What we take for DNA testing, which could cost up to $20 million\u2014that is, up to 200 cops\u2014means less in the way of resources to spend on prevention or other aspects of investigation, and that is incredibly important. Even Warren Young, a member of the Law Commission and a highly esteemed member of our justice fraternity, has stated that obviously a huge amount can be done with forensic science but there are limited resources, both with regard to people and money. That is not unlike the situation we see in our health sector. If we had all the money in the world, we could perhaps throw it on an initiative such as this. But why would we invest money in compulsion around testing for something as limited as traffic offences, when we could target the spending more effectively? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to dwell a little as well on the changes that this measure will mean for the forensic science community. I do not think enough time has been spent on that issue. I am sure that the select committee\u2014and I am lucky enough to be on that select committee\u2014will hear evidence on that, but I would be interested in hearing from the Institute of Environmental Science and Research Ltd. I have heavy concerns about that. DNA is not the same as fingerprinting, and I want to make that point to the Minister. I find it worrying that he has treated it in the same way as fingerprinting. A fingerprint is 100 percent unique; DNA is not. That is a concern. There has not even been any discussion around the way we are to treat familial DNA. That issue has been raised overseas, and we have not seen much discussion about the way we are to treat the storage of the evidence and samples. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI also have concerns about whether the Institute of Environmental Science and Research Ltd is equipped to respond to this measure. I recall that in 2002 the institute, even with the minor extension to sampling that had come in just the burglary area and in retrospective testing pre-1996, had concerns about whether it had the ability to do this work. So we need to have a very robust discussion with the institute on this issue. We need to make sure the institute is able to keep the chain of custody in tow, because there is a range of dates around the dumping of samples. The dates are quite staggered, and I think we need to consider that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThere are two more issues I want to raise. I actually question whether this bill is all Mr Power\u2019s work. I have a lot of respect for Mr Power, but it strikes me that this is more of a Judith Collins bill. But I look forward to considering the bill in the select committee and to giving it the heavy scrutiny it deserves and that the House has not had the opportunity to give it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00220d9070eb3e6c4844a4c9bf652a473352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d9070eb3e6c4844a4c9bf652a473352\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this debate be now adjourned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c16ed0817e74489db4869f5c67d84ba1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That this debate be now adjourned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090210531d91166c574f6bab4598b84c7c7074000759\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.41 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"