"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228519eae7eae64a549a82e8d0c1b70048\u0022\u003EWednesday, 8 April 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3602b3b7c4040a99d69c0a8ee74782e\u0022\u003EWednesday, 8 April 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ae71f1cee854bc9af4bf2fc5b589434\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e42835b765574e0c9b16c69c1b2cab54\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c4e6c8e99674b0eae1873d159697b4b\u0022\u003ERecession\u2014Prime Minister\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f53562a6bc4144508130a166fedb8391\u0022\u003E1. Hon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statements relating to the downturn in the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022041892d71f674dc6809c6708255536fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022041892d71f674dc6809c6708255536fb\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc20d747428b4a15a3488e007300c29a\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is Mr English\u2019s view that New Zealand is \u201Cunlikely to aggressively grow out of\u201D the recession closer to the mark than his own view of the deepening recession shown by the latest economic survey, where the Prime Minister previously claimed that, in fact, we would aggressively grow out of this recession by the end of this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e15f5c26bb2942a88972d5f4e42904f9\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, the Minister of Finance\u2019s assessment of the economy and mine are remarkably similar. For the purpose of the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s education, I just inform him that the advice the Government has received from Treasury is as follows. If the economy grows slightly faster than is predicted in the Budget round, then Treasury predicts that we will be growing in the June quarter of this year. If it is broadly in terms with where Treasury thinks the Budget might be, remembering that that is quite considerably worse than the Budget Policy Statement, then Treasury expects it to be no later than in the December quarter of this year. Even under Treasury\u2019s doomsay scenario, it thinks it will be March 2010. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThe Leader of the Opposition has asked the question, and for the purpose of good order, I will just repeat my quote. When asked by Guyon Espiner whether we would still be in recession in a year\u2019s time, I stated\u2014and this is the quote, verbatim\u2014\u201CI think by the end of 2009 early 2010 this time next year\u2014we\u2019ll be starting to come out of that and I think actually starting to come out of it reasonably aggressively. I\u2019m more optimistic about 2011 than 2010 but nevertheless I think 2010 will be positive.\u201D Once again, we on this side of the House are right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6d019b7a10240c59660b9dca4acb2b6\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the transcript of an interview with Mr Bill English on Q\u002BA on 5 April 2009, where, contrary to saying that we will come out of the recession reasonably aggressively, he stated that we are unlikely to aggressively grow out of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276bcba01db4e4bbcb68cf3cb3684d364\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284add62b72794f56bd13d0d84f75d632\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Prime Minister talk to Mr English about contradicting, and therefore undermining, his view about aggressively coming out of the recession, given the confusing signals to the business community and the public when the two National Party leaders say things contradicting one another; and is the Prime Minister confident that this will not happen again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbe4fbf86b1c4a6da7cffde3547376cd\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Not in the slightest\u2014I have huge respect for the views held by the Minister of Finance, and I talk to him regularly. I might add that, on top of the different scenarios Treasury has provided, it is worth noting how much variation there is out there. Only this week Business and Economic Research Ltd came out thinking unemployment would be 5.2 percent at its peak. Members can contrast that with the New Zealand Institute saying a few weeks earlier that unemployment would be 11 percent; the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research had it at 6.1 percent. The reality is that we are in a very unusual recession\u2014arguably the worst since the 1930s Depression\u2014and there is a range of views on exactly when New Zealand will start growing again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f88e3bbe4c6c40f7ac77080d4e3818a6\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government more concerned about economic forecasts than it is about actually doing something to help New Zealand through the recession?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224917da583beb4fc5be4414a2d3b33325\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike the Opposition, this Government is not obsessed about updating, and talking about, forecasts. We are much more concerned about taking action to help blunt the sharpest edges of the recession. I might add as well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286d6d44a8a1a4444be684e0d8fb397b6\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What happened with the cycleway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261bd9d74650d443787a37ade28874a5e\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: If I were Mr Chris Carter, I would go out and get some bike shorts, because he will be using them soon. The basic point is that the Government has done a lot. Whether it is tax cuts, small to medium sized enterprise packages, the Resource Management Act reform, the reform of Auckland\u2019s governance, or the 9-day working fortnight\u2014this has been a very busy and active Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb8eb62a61624c9f8689a345d52a5226\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister stand by his commitment to a Cape Reinga to the Bluff cycleway, which would create 4,000 jobs at a cost of $50 million; if so, how does he explain his deputy\u2019s comments on Q\u002BA: \u201CWell, we won\u2019t be spending $50 million on it this year, or next year, or the year after.\u201D, which again seems to undermine his leader, and has the Prime Minister talked regularly to Mr English about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dbbd071561f47ed92c795cca36b7f51\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am confident about the cycleway. However, after looking at the Television One poll results on Sunday night, I am fearful that Mr Goff will be on his bike before I am.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fae0e13a8e1433a880e6207f020200c\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government be changing its economic and fiscal policies every time an economic forecast changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b5fa0f27db493096331edc4cae3f39\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. The forecasts of the length and depth of the recession will continue to change over the coming months, but the pathway out of the recession is crystal clear\u2014that is, all of the actions that this Government has been taking; it is a busy Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220906453fe69f435f9f743446918834c7\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: What new plans does the Prime Minister have to tackle unemployment, given Treasury\u2019s prediction yesterday that 60,000 more New Zealanders will be out of a job by this time next year, and to what extent does he believe that those plans will reduce that estimated number?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236f82db2cc5f4da6a0b035b4f5401bbd\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in answer to one of the earlier questions from the member, there is quite a wide range of predictions from Treasury, both in terms of growth, where it pointed out that we may well be growing in this quarter, right through to the doomsay scenario, which was the March quarter of 2010. That is equally the case when we look at unemployment; there are a range of predictions. What I can say is that the Government is focused on keeping people in work or ensuring that people get into jobs as much as they can. This Government has taken action; the Opposition is taking no action other than whingeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c29ec423894c97a77096308b1eb16b\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: What action does the Prime Minister intend to take to restore confidence in the New Zealand economy, given the results of the Quarterly Survey of Business Opinion, which shows the lowest level of confidence since 1974?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cc34026f1bd48e4a89642fcc7d811be\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think the business community is responding to what it is seeing internationally, which is a very weak international position. But I think the New Zealand business community is taking confidence from the fact that this Government is acting. Thirteen days after the royal commission\u2019s report, we announced a plan for the reform of Auckland. Tax cuts were delivered on 1 April. The reform of the Resource Management Act is flowing through the House. The member\u2019s own leader is working very aggressively and very effectively on reducing regulation across the New Zealand business community. When I go around businesses in New Zealand, the only thing I hear from them is: \u201CThank goodness there is a National-ACT Government. We are very pleased to see the back of Labour.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1aa0e045027406a98d0d8c5377793bc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does Bill English\u2019s comment yesterday that it was anybody\u2019s guess how high unemployment would go next year indicate a lack of confidence in current plans to deal with unemployment; if so, what plans does he have to stop unemployment spiralling out of control, like Treasury has estimated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b48b0207d73240bfb302d1f3ded7026d\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, it reflects the reality, which is that it is anybody\u2019s guess how high unemployment might go. The Minister of Finance is working very hard on making sure the New Zealand economy starts growing as quickly as it can. Can I say how lucky we are to have a Minister of Finance so focused on that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201915e42a5a644cd93364b566aead85f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that the downturn in the economy will disproportionately affect in a negative way M\u0101ori unemployment; and how does this fact, together with no tax cuts for low-income M\u0101ori families, fire-at-will in the first 90 days of employment, and the failure to even consult M\u0101ori in Auckland about representation in Auckland governance, enhance mana, as the agreement with the M\u0101ori Party would have suggested?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022232af8d4a4084e97b8d90f73621f4936\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with the Leader of the Opposition that the recession is more likely to affect M\u0101ori New Zealanders, as they are disproportionately represented as lower-income New Zealanders. We are doing a lot of things. It is not true that M\u0101ori did not get tax cuts; they got them like everybody else. It is true that the 90-day provision legislation will absolutely help M\u0101ori, because it will help them, just as it will help other New Zealanders, to get a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291442dfb2f8448128b4c396c58b08d38\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Further to his reference to the importance of tax cuts to the recovery of the economy, has he accepted the proposal of the Minister of Finance for a Budget Day announcement that out-year tax cuts will be scrapped?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7ed472ca58d49258bd05e366f1fd15a\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has not made any decision in relation to tax cuts for the out-years except to say that we recognise that there is a difficult economic position in front of us. The Government needs to make sure that it is balanced in what it does and it will take the actions that are necessary to ensure that we do the best for New Zealanders. I can say that tax cuts, whenever they occur, in my opinion are good for the economy because they stimulate demand and they put the right incentives back in the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290ada1f227924e70986204164325dd35\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Is he prepared to rule out the reversal of the legislation passed in December for tax cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022190c9b8f1c3246abae9aa06bdda5fdf6\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: All I can say is that no decisions have been made on tax cuts for the out-years, at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227dc5c43c370f4fe7ad52f9e1075a01e0\u0022\u003EState Services\u2014Remuneration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224df07f4999b547d38a9c537ccd0c5e62\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What previously agreed State sector pay increases is the Government having to fund as part of the Budget this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d347b3af58994efcb74c173069a6f8f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d347b3af58994efcb74c173069a6f8f1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E There are a number of previously negotiated pay contracts in place, which the Government will honour. Included in these contracts are those for 42,500 teachers and principals who received a 4 percent increase in July 2008, to be followed by another 4 percent in July 2009; 22,000 nurses and midwives who received another 4 percent increase in March 2009; 2,800 senior doctors who received 4.5 percent in June 2008 and will receive another 4.5 percent in June 2009; 2,400 junior doctors who will receive a 2 percent increase in July, on top of 8.68 percent in August 2008; and there are many more of them. The contracts are all legally binding agreements made by the previous Government, and they will be funded in this year\u2019s Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022393d356ea32f4ed3b745cb398e8c9106\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Minister done to ensure future State Service pay agreements are fairer and more reasonable in the current economic environment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a06526c752874eaf99e0f1c5dae3a97b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We have indicated to the chief executives of Government departments that we expect State pay settlements to fall in line with what is happening in the rest of the economy, in particular in the private sector, where pay increases are quite low. We have also indicated to them that they will be funding remuneration increases from within the budgets they are given and that there will not be additional funds or ministerial funds to assist them. This will be the Government\u2019s position for the foreseeable future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7107eb6c54844949330eb15ac33f848\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister of Finance understand that this policy means that after 1 July, school cleaners will be paid substantially more than support staff who work with kids with disabilities; if so, does he think that is fair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe31ac6ccf14506b3b1eb70cb30bbe9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Fairness will be a critical part of the Government\u2019s approach to State sector remuneration. The member should wait and see the bargaining parameters for that pay round before he gets too worried about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297d61fc4bafc4a11952389a6b89b1563\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister\u2019s approach to State Service pay contribute to the Government\u2019s objective of providing better, smarter public services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fe33de13109434f9ec3616fe06494e2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In a time of recession, more New Zealanders will need more front-line services. In that environment it will simply not be feasible to continue to provide significant pay increases of the order of 3 to 5 percent for public servants, without any benefits to productivity and more front-line service. Our focus will be on providing more public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da9c40a1fcb346ee835571b3bed69855\u0022\u003EBusiness Confidence\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269e42ce02c184d4c8a9d3f3a928bca97\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports, if any, has he seen about business confidence in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d518d3be87de486091055cb8dc5e68c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d518d3be87de486091055cb8dc5e68c4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Reports this year have shown that business confidence was in freefall until just recently. Business confidence measures appear to be stabilising, although, I must say, at very low levels. Well, in fact, they were falling so fast that they had to stabilise somewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224477435c984647a5a1b90c33a2098821\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that the Prime Minister\u2019s \u201Csunny disposition\u201D is justified when business confidence has been in freefall and is now at its lowest level since 1974, when 65 percent of businesses think the situation will worsen further, and when half are reporting falls in their output and a third have cut staff in the last 3 months, adding to Treasury\u2019s projection of 60,000 more jobless by Christmas; or can he explain to the House what part of those numbers the \u201Ctweet\u201D next to him does not understand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279e79a78ca6a460bb8beb5aedfeff235\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Somehow, the Opposition members seem to be surprised about this situation. For several months forecasts have shown that a coordinated world recession will have an effect on the world economy. I can only confirm what the Prime Minister says, which is that everywhere we go businesses say \u201CThank God there\u2019s a National Government and we got rid of Labour.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022276e7069eca544d59531ad04b7463476\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: What measures has the Government taken to ensure that the recent stabilisation of business confidence is sustained and upturned?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea4e585f8dd341879731a24b8e7945f3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is putting in place a range of measures that in the shorter term are designed to assist New Zealand businesses through a recession, but, just as important, in the longer term are designed to build their confidence that this economy is one in which they can invest. Unless businesses invest new money, we will not see new jobs to replace those that are lost. In the shorter term, we have implemented a package of measures worth $480 million over 4 years to assist small to medium sized businesses, we brought forward a range of major infrastructure projects, and on 1 April we delivered a tax cut to 1.5 million New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279d4ec5a99cc44db913f256ede10821d\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Which of these measures will do more to turn round the historic lows in business confidence revealed by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research yesterday: a cycleway that the Minister will not fully fund this year, next year, or the year after; a 9-day working fortnight policy that excludes 99 percent of Kiwi businesses; or tax cuts that shift demand from low and medium income earners who need it and would spend it to upper income earners who do not and will not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202589d38a0db487bb7df6d582033b9d3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What will lift business confidence over the next 12 or 18 months will be the continued programme of an active Government that is making decisions quickly about things that make a real difference to the business environment. That is how we will get new jobs to replace the jobs that are being lost now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257a04c30d26a4e6897ac3db3334164dd\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the active Rudd Government in Australia is once again stepping up by injecting massive stimulus into that economy through a combination of income boosts for needy families and bold plans for infrastructure, and why does he not admit that his Government\u2019s double act of irrelevant PR gimmicks by the Prime Minister and dour fiscal conservatism from him is likely only to further undermine confidence and drive New Zealand deeper into recession? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c27bb26f16b4ef9b0a89131cf7fe287\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Opposition finance spokesperson could do a bit better than that, I would have thought. When the New Zealand Government announces a bold plan for broadband, he criticises every aspect of it; when the Australians do it, he calls it a bold plan for infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c7fc20ab1384ce199c683ddc6b5c193\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: What policy actions does the Minister intend to take to ensure that foreign bank lenders are more likely to roll over debt owed to them by New Zealand companies when it falls due for repayment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a259dbf6f2b415dbb7ce228a6ca2fd7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: This issue will be less of a challenge in New Zealand than, perhaps, in other countries, but there is no doubt that global banks are deglobalising. Where Governments increasingly own them, they are putting pressure on those banks to lend in their home markets rather than here. The most important thing we can do is to continue to underpin the stability of financial markets and the relatively favourable credit conditions that are enjoyed in the New Zealand banking system. But this issue is one of any number of risks to the availability of credit in New Zealand, as it is in other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d522db737da4ae3a4b200c19bcc4b98\u0022\u003ENuclear Disarmament\u2014New Zealand Commitment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f10900caa90a40cabc623d26350d4430\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Does he share the vision of the President of the United States, Barack Obama, who, on 5 April, stated his commitment to \u201Cseek the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons\u201D; and does he also share the President\u2019s commitment to take concrete steps towards that goal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5474789526b47559a1042b267a7bfba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5474789526b47559a1042b267a7bfba\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. New Zealand warmly welcomed President Obama\u2019s recent leadership on the elimination of nuclear weapons. Renewed engagement by the US in nuclear disarmament and non-proliferation is very welcome to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6391b26ae7546b08fa3b3f1553f154b\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree, then, with the statement of the New Zealand Prime Minister of 1985 that the United States carries the burden of \u201Cknowing that the deterrent which defends them will also destroy them and all the rest of us if it is ever used. No nation should carry that burden.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220da6bb5e40b043b38487270efa19fc5f\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Broadly, we do agree that the United States can, because of its position in the world, show leadership in this area. That is why we welcome the statements made by President Obama. We believe that they are a step in the right direction, but we do not underestimate the size of the challenge that lies before the United States. We just hope that the United States is successful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc443d6c4ce5437f966ad83d14a6f929\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: What recent action has New Zealand taken following President Obama\u2019s statement on nuclear weapons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221702e82ad51b4c2eaf75e569dbfaf4cb\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: At the conclusion of today\u2019s meeting between the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, an agreement was signed for New Zealand\u2019s fourth contribution to the G8 Global Partnership Against the Spread of Weapons and Materials of Mass Destruction. This is a practical way for New Zealand to assist international efforts to prevent the smuggling of nuclear material, and therefore reduce the potential for nuclear weapons to end up in the wrong hands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022218dfd1fe6a44c199eba4c0ad5519bef\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his response to my earlier question, and also of New Zealand\u2019s vote in support of the December 2008 UN resolution for a nuclear weapons convention, will he confirm that our Government will urge the United States to commence negotiations on a phased programme for the complete elimination of nuclear weapons within a specified time frame?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6b60dce3f7d4bd5b83f3c2badc2c970\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I think it is fair to say that New Zealand has supported resolutions of the United Nations seeking negotiations on such a convention, but we have done that against the background that such negotiations are unlikely to get off the ground in the foreseeable future. New Zealand\u2019s emphasis has been and remains on the practical steps that President Obama outlined in his speech in Prague. Yes, we will be encouraging that. As I said, it is a very positive step, and, really, it is one, almost, that only America can take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a2b41c19bd7427ead5df933a371540f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Has his Government warmly welcomed the vision of President Barack Obama in moving forward measures to effectively deal with climate change; if so, if it was not President Obama that the Prime Minister was referring to, why did he say: \u201CThe leaders I have talked to, I can assure the member, are so focused on the recession that they are not particularly focused on climate change at the moment.\u201D? Which leaders was the Prime Minister referring to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b08fb651fab2446b9a273d10adb7dd50\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is a fairly long way from nuclear proliferation to climate change, but, that said, no, President Obama was not one of the world leaders I was talking about there. I have not spoken to him. I do share\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222654475297e94cee8e0217b8629d4150\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Who was it? Who were the leaders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202cf3f904a674743b1627c4edf944c53\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there was quite a number, actually. If you like, I am happy to give\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e190e852acd649c1921b5b95d70f9d22\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: One name!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229222be19f2b48f9b99c40a4e99b35f1\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Your mate Joe Biden!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e280b66d25c44791b665a1643188b016\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have a photo of me with Joe Biden. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2dbd74ddffe48b1b5842ea5e6ff3f32\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got to run up from behind and grab him!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022998f8607ae014381b8d89ed4884f0394\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. I do not know who was happier: Joe Biden seeing Phil Goff, or Phil Goff seeing Joe Biden. The fundamental point here is that we support the view that the world needs to take climate change seriously. New Zealand has its own prescription for that, and we will be following it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227562cb9309fd4b10bce8e9a92729631f\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree\u2014bringing the matter of nuclear weapons closer to home\u2014with the statement of the New Zealand Prime Minister in 1986: \u201CNew Zealand is a nuclear-free country. We reject any strategy for our defence which relies on nuclear weapons.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022751c2bf0f2124ce89bebf81e53c69a39\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b3ec28697984e21873511bdecbb3d33\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not true that the Prime Minister was just making it up when he said that other world leaders were not focused on climate change because they were focused on the recession; if not, why can he not name just one leader who said that to him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa3e6a34492444e8b40b7616586238ec\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It would be inappropriate for me to relay conversations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224537f5403ec245c194cb76849f6daf46\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019re just making it up!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228869d45136bf46dab72c8dcca37c870d\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As a former Minister of Foreign Affairs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba1f3a9f3fa64175a64ac98d98682dcb\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re not supposed to make things up as Prime Minister, John. You should have learnt that by now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef80543119784184aef5bf7309ac80af\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have to go out there and ankle-tap world leaders, then email the photo to the Dominion Post in order to get a profile. I have my own profile. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228874cf3ff4ee4c86ba805dce26dfc131\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] There is a Standing Order that you continue to fail to enforce, because members keep interjecting when I raise a point of order. I ask you to bring the House to order, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228720ab39627544a9ba0d297c5915b1ec\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We will hear the point of order in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9f7c43fc1a14e9bafac8bd27f77c656\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, as you are aware, the question was very straightforward. It asked whether there was a world leader that he had spoken to. Either there was one or there was not, but nothing in his answer pertained to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a44baad06a244798225933a2a9abe11\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the question had been straightforward and serious\u2014and I am not sure whether the barracking from the member\u2019s colleagues indicated the seriousness of the question\u2014I believe that the response the member got was absolutely in response to the interjections from his colleagues. Ministers are perfectly entitled to respond to interjections when answering questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8beb64c1aa3404cbf9628fb3d66fadc\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not going to relay conversations I had with other leaders, simply because I think that is inappropriate. But I can say that with quite a number of leaders I have met recently, what has come up first and has dominated nearly every conversation we have had has been the recession. If the Leader of the Opposition does not think leaders around the world are almost solely focused on the recession at the moment, as opposed to anything else, then he is showing why he is so out of touch with what is happening in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a4e8e84a0c04260946053e0507c1d02\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his response to my third question, which rejected the use of nuclear deterrence in the defence of New Zealand, and in light of the judgment of the World Court that the use of nuclear weapons would generally be contrary to international law, can the Prime Minister confirm that New Zealand supports the UN General Assembly Resolution 63/75 calling for negotiations to commence for an international convention prohibiting the use of nuclear weapons under any circumstances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3dd5618bb834765a27b54e3371cd284\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in response to an earlier question from the member, yes, New Zealand has supported those resolutions at the United Nations, but it is important, as I said, to put them against the backdrop of what is happening out there. We think that the fastest way to achieve those kinds of results is not necessarily through a UN resolution; it is through the leadership that America is demonstrating in Prague this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8782404bcb74591a351c199896e28c9\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table three United Nations documents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e58abe9d8b04ec8b22b2af636f42110\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Could the member identify the three documents, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022078decefdb7f4a91998276a3ceb691fb\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: The first is General Assembly Resolution 63/75 of 2 December 2008, which sets out the resolution calling for a convention on the non-use of nuclear weapons, and which New Zealand voted against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f46fecd61554d6c9ee05483b5d3c9ec\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227899f5c6cc1e45d68cdb237064c75b85\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: The second is General Assembly Resolution 63/49, which calls for a nuclear weapons convention, and which New Zealand voted for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227561e6e868404f15a327c27f4c7427f2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022257ab997a90d40cb84dd07398111329e\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: The third document is United Nations General Assembly document A/62/650 of 18 January 2008, which sets out the Model Nuclear Weapons Convention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213505aefb43947f5a996ff06eebd41e3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c8695a6908542faab178a71b9eb1024\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Affairs, Minister\u2014Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221302ddfd61fc4f3eaf643e349f96c6f6\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: Does he stand by his statement: \u201CI have voiced my displeasure at the taking away of those seats and I\u2019ve done so as the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs because I have a responsibility to represent the views of M\u0101ori people\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u00226e893edb83b343ba87eed06401d253e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e893edb83b343ba87eed06401d253e1\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. Yes, I most certainly do. As the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs I have an interest in all the affairs that affect M\u0101ori and I have a responsibility to reflect their views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dd7223a43a64a3796882dbadf7d47d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was listening very carefully to that answer, and you will probably realise why. We have previously had an exchange in this House about what the responsibility of the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs was and what questions he could be asked in that light. We have had both a question and an answer now, which accepts the point that I made at that time\u2014that is, the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs has a responsibility to represent the views of M\u0101ori people. His responsibility is across all those areas of policy that affect M\u0101ori people and he can therefore be questioned in this House on those matters. We have now had that confirmed by the Minister himself in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b76f906f9d5e41d4b539160178a286ba\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: As I understood it, the Minister said he has interests in those affairs that affect M\u0101ori people, rather than responsibility for them. Perhaps it is a matter of looking at the Hansard to check the statement. I think there is a big difference between an interest and an understanding of the affairs that might be raised across the board, throughout the country, as opposed to those affairs that he has responsibility for. I ask you to have a look at the Hansard to consider that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eac8aeee50434aef9434aaf15cd17f1c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is a matter of how far a Minister takes an interest. If he takes an interest so far as to call for reports or ask for briefing notes as Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, he then has responsibility for those reports for which he has asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b2fc3711470420d88e74cb0ba6229ba\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I refer you to the principal question. The Minister was asked to stand by his statement: \u201CI\u2019ve done so as the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs because I have a responsibility to represent the views of M\u0101ori people\u201D\u2014as Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs. That, in fact, is the position that has been well understood for a long time but which was questioned previously by the Minister in trying to avoid giving answers. He has established clearly that he can now be questioned in this House on any matters that might impinge upon the views of the M\u0101ori people, because he has a responsibility to represent those views as Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs. He has now defined his own responsibility. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b26599f71d1435c99ef0fa3687ba655\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We are still considering a point of order, and members should respect that, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fe13c08d1704d1b911580e5b279798a\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It is no surprise to me that they applaud when I get to my feet! I think the point Dr Cullen makes is an interesting one. But there will equally be occasions when Dr Sharples will find that he speaks in a different capacity, just as Helen Clark found that rather than speaking as Prime Minister, and therefore in the interests of all New Zealanders, there were occasions when she spoke as leader of the Labour Party. There were occasions where the Hon Jim Anderton spoke as leader of the Alliance, and where any number of others who supported previous Governments spoke, while being a Minister, as somebody else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIf we look back through Hansard, we will find some very interesting discussions, led by Jonathan Hunt from the Chair, about which hat was being worn at which time. Most people at the time found that ridiculous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe fact the Opposition now reaches that conclusion some 6 or 7 years later should not materially factor in the point that there will be times when Dr Sharples, quite legitimately, speaks for members of the M\u0101ori Party. That is quite obvious, so trying to get a clear position on the issue that any time Dr Sharples opens his mouth to speak on an issue he is deemed to be speaking as Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs is extremely unreasonable in an MMP environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231739b92f5ea481c8f553a43a0aa4c37\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Hon Dr Michael Cullen is drawing a very long bow by trying to stretch the definition of responsibility with the answer to this question. If we go to what the Minister said in the statement he stands by, we see that it states: \u201CI have voiced my displeasure at the taking away of those seats and I\u2019ve done so as the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs\u201D. Of course, he did that because the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs was on the Cabinet committee that received the royal commission\u2019s recommendation and was considering it. And I can tell the House that the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs spoke strongly and forcefully for his views. He did so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4956c4ca0584240860a7220b6cba227\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251b1fb4ef0c347b8a8669800ee471931\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister is pointing out the issues around responsibility, and why there is certain responsibility here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228822cc1242884b0f8cbfaa310f1550c6\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: So he was voicing his opinion, then, as the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, because he was on the Cabinet committee that was considering the royal commission\u2019s recommendation. His statement then goes on: \u201Cbecause I have a responsibility to represent the views of M\u0101ori people\u201D. The Hon Pita Sharples clearly has that responsibility, and I say that so do all of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223435f881a15a4c85a5c788e295805e04\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: There is some difficulty, I think, in trying to follow the logic of that position. Of course, the Minister may well have been speaking in Cabinet as the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, but if he had chosen to speak on this matter publicly as the co-leader of the M\u0101ori Party, saying in fact that he has a responsibility as co-leader of the M\u0101ori Party to represent the views of the M\u0101ori Party, of course that would have to be quite an obvious statement. But he chose to say that as Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs he has a responsibility to represent the views of the M\u0101ori people. We on this side of the House certainly do not confuse the M\u0101ori people with the M\u0101ori Party. They are not one and the same thing, at all. Indeed, if people have any doubt on that, I simply refer them to the last election in relation to the party vote for Labour versus the party vote for the M\u0101ori Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260f77049dd5d47d7bf198fb64bf5724a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank all members. I allowed that point of order debate to go on for some time, because this is an issue that will always be a little difficult in the House. I believe that we were not heading towards difficulty with this question because, clearly, the Minister, in making a statement, said he made it as Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, so there was no issue about responsibility. But we cannot lock in today exactly how all questions will be handled in the future, because where a Minister denies ministerial responsibility, I as Speaker have to accept that. The Speaker cannot say\u2014I am not allowed; I cannot say\u2014\u201CI disagree with that, and I am not going to accept it.\u201D Where a Minister makes it clear that he or she does not have ministerial responsibility, I have to accept the Minister\u2019s word. But the House can rest assured that I accept the point raised by the Hon Dr Michael Cullen that initiated this discussion; it is an important point. I accept fully that when he first raised this issue some weeks back, his points were made on good ground. We must treat this issue seriously as we move ahead, but I believe that today\u2019s questioning should not be that difficult because the Minister has accepted responsibility for the statement he made as Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f05822c8499b413aa5ea75e5b6b36b61\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like you, if possible\u2014and I am not seeking here an early retirement from the House\u2014to consider what you said in that last judgment. You said you have to accept that if a Minister denies ministerial responsibility, then he or she has no responsibility. Now, there must be limits upon that. If the Minister of Finance was to get up and say that he has no responsibility for the Budget, one might well ask which Minister does have responsibility for the Budget. I think you have to accept that at a certain point you cannot avoid being drawn into the issue of a Minister saying that he or she is not responsible for X when it is blatantly obvious that the Minister is responsible for X. The Minister will be forced to reply on that particular matter. Otherwise we could have weak Minister after weak Minister popping up saying that he or she has no responsibility for that, and we sit here wondering whom we now try to ask about that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4ff82407d6d48d294741d881bc77540\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That point pushes it far too far. It is quite an absurd position. That would mean that, for example, the Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs could be expected to speak as Minister on absolutely everything\u2014similarly with ethnic affairs, or consumer affairs. One might find all sorts of other links between ministries\u2014so that position simply cannot stand for a House rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220465e63315dc4c938844901c40320129\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept that the points are made with goodwill on this issue, because it is a challenging issue for the House. But to come back to the Hon Dr Michael Cullen\u2019s point, I am sure that if a Minister denied ministerial responsibility for something that was clearly his or her responsibility, he or she might not be Minister for much longer. I think there are natural forces that come into play. I dare to suggest that if a Minister denies responsibility, for example, as Minister of Finance for something that is clearly his responsibility, clearly his future as Minister of Finance may not be great. This example applies to all Ministers. There are natural boundaries around these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a47d18aff5c4a5ea016476ef681bfcf\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister claim to act with integrity when, on the one hand, he is railed against the scrapping of M\u0101ori seats in Auckland, and, on the other hand, he signed the confidence and supply agreement promising not to pursue the entrenching of the Maori electorate seats in Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224323b3a9947c4779a44b371338eb04db\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: It is very simple. I reflect the views that have been given to me by the M\u0101ori leaders of Auckland City, and I make their case for them. I am surprised that a party that purports to represent M\u0101ori, like Labour does, has not made the same move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f93501d88f246da8810b386d6bcd9f3\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Which of these statements best reflects John Key\u2019s decision to cut the proposed three M\u0101ori seats from the new Auckland Super-city Council: the one calling the decision \u201Cinstitutional racism\u201D or the other calling it \u201Cintegrity in action\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f19be049eb4142a699a9621f0e9d2423\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: I have no responsibility for the Prime Minister\u2019s statements. Those statements were my statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b16e62f72e6451b83ba70dca6b9f65d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know that it is not long since the Minister made those statements about institutional racism and integrity in action, but it was, in fact, he who made those statements, not the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022503845ede167468c9f37d891162ad688\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If I am to understand the question correctly, there was more than one statement involved in it, and if one of the statements was not that made by the Minister, his answer is perfectly in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56d92c740424eed8bd418005ebbd13b\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Does the Minister agree with the comments of Associate Professor Ann Sullivan that \u201CAt the local government level, M\u0101ori are unfairly, inequitably and disproportionately under-represented on elected councils.\u201D; if so, does he think that the Minister of Local Government\u2019s decision to remove M\u0101ori seats and mana whenua seats will have a further negative impact on M\u0101ori representation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220669deda478e41ba822062518b16b2c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: I totally support the advice from Associate Professor Sullivan, and it has also been my experience in trying to get M\u0101ori on to the various city councils in the Greater Auckland area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222611d10be6f1453c93e0c27f37fd13f2\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Has the Minister received any reports from M\u0101ori living within the T\u0101maki-makau-rau region responding to the Government\u2019s decisions announced yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4473741c6a94e35bfa381f353daae1e\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have seen M\u0101ori leaders\u2014mana whenua\u2014on television saying they do not agree with those views. I have also had phone calls from those leaders. I have been asked to convene a hui on their behalf. There is total support for the stand I have taken, and it is a wonder that Labour has not done something about it itself\u2014amazing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283598e2057e84f3e8ae1408026af6546\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: Is the complete absence of M\u0101ori seats in the proposed Auckland super-city a breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f053a5167274a1d82be92b8570364cc\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Waitangi Tribunal is the forum that would decide that, and I understand that some people in Auckland want to take the issue before that forum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fb1a0f94ae8412c867112c5503a21d3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022367bdcfe1e6a42ee9bdaa2cba293ad56\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s your policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cc87d56054f452ca3a7165add2ebe30\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I point out to members interjecting that the Speaker does not have a policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022224358db8ccf4a24a09800aeff6fdb3a\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Very wise, Mr Speaker. Why does the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs continue to describe his relationship with the National Government as mana-enhancing, when both his views and the views of the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance have been rejected without any consultation with any of the people in Auckland affected by that decision, and when other decisions made by the Government\u2014the 90-day fire-at-will bill, the lack of tax cuts for low-income families, and growing M\u0101ori unemployment\u2014mean that this Government has not delivered mana-enhancing benefits for M\u0101ori people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c379ec324e5c4e8b8025fb9e2c291470\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: The agreement that the M\u0101ori Party has with National is totally mana-enhancing. We agree to disagree and to not talk behind each other\u2019s backs. We have an open, honest policy. We agree to disagree. We have done that, and at all times there are no surprises, and that is why our relationship is growing stronger every day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022868460f3ba15466b8fcb78cc9d00781c\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1d3cfe3b9e94f3ebd0df8685293da44\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Te Ururoa Flavell is asking a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ef8e7a62ecb4cda9044d2f21bb6655c\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I did not hear all of that answer, but I am hoping that it did not cover my question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228532ed602be742edb0d56437ff81b5c7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259d199ea7157477d994e6a4f540cf9f0\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister support the recommendations from the royal commission for designated M\u0101ori seats on the super-city council; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc91babc86ad4cd5a4b07f2cee43640f\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I most certainly did, because I believe that the Government has a responsibility to make sure that the M\u0101ori voice, particularly mana whenua, is heard at the top table\u2014right at the first level. That is why I supported them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229294871c82c04401aefdcdd5f6312fda\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Given that answer, does the Minister believe that his Government\u2019s rejection of separate M\u0101ori representation for Auckland indicates that any signing up to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples by his Government will at best remain aspirational, and at worst could be interpreted as a form of covert institutional racism?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7743d4926e84771a0e9414a6b7f1dd2\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: Why did you not sign the agreement when you had the chance to sign it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022587d3e9ecde94f63a8aa8ab6ac5630c4\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7a3350d8a9441c78ba073813fd25f61\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Nanaia Mahuta is raising a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022478fa359c792446393eccc9809a1a516\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister may think that was a flippant response, but he should answer the question that he was asked. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e576a56805bc4c749e585b8aa21c756b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I realise that the House takes this issue seriously, but we must have some silence. I ask the honourable member to repeat her point of order in a way that is not provocative, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f1f31cbc41c445dbbf60e1b05b21fe8\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: My question was very clear. It required a response. The Minister did not attempt at all to provide a response to the question that he was asked. If he cannot answer it, he should simply say \u201CI don\u2019t know.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d89d97010cf341b098763d6a317fbc08\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the honourable Minister to answer further, because in his answer he asked why the Speaker had not signed the declaration, and the Speaker is in no position to do so. I invite the Hon Dr Pita Sharples to further answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224680a77d082e4e8f95b247ad08a6423b\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: The answer is that for the past 3 weeks the M\u0101ori Party has been in negotiations with National over that very document, and we are hoping that something will be released very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ba371b7868c4a5cb9a97bfb5980a6c8\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement on Radio New Zealand National this morning that disagreement between the M\u0101ori Party and National on this issue strengthens relations between them, and does this mean that the relationship will achieve the status of a marriage made in heaven if there is total disagreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212705f9c649e44c7941a1e901917b0e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: I would expect that member to draw that conclusion from that statement. I did make that statement and I totally stand by it. You see, this is the bit about integrity and honesty. We can disagree in public, because this is a matter still in progress. This is a matter that is not completed, and this is the time that we disagree with each other. Until that legislation is passed in Parliament I will keep putting forward my view. There you go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b96ea37d55347879ea5ff73ad5e9cc9\u0022\u003EHon John Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any reports that a senior Labour member of Parliament made a statement yesterday that Labour would not have accepted and implemented the royal commission\u2019s recommendation of three M\u0101ori seats?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022382963a4e6aa4fb09ae540546d40c063\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I do not remember whether I have, but I can imagine that that is exactly what those members would say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a37aebf202545b8a4c00ba37f701be5\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the questions that the learned Minister has forgotten he made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248fcc06c81464972967c15747d354a1f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe that I can possibly seek leave for that, because it is not a document, and I think that is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c022be578154de681dde531226ab925\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: A list of questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220899fcb41a784a5fbd509d16a6bdd702\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Could the member describe for me what he is seeking to table. Is he seeking to table a list of his supplementary questions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6b099a46fc04f1899075a43964961bd\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: His statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f8bed432bd4461b95b7dbfc09756310\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Could the member please tell us what he is trying to table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afcbadc786be4c0f87c31cfafa101078\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the statements that the Minister made that he has forgotten.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe9e61ceae014a08aded58db194877fd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is really trifling with the House, and because\u2014[Interruption] Members, for goodness\u2019 sake! If the member is seeking leave to table the statements that the Minister has just made, they are available in Hansard\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c496157d6b44855ba120f6bef4dd611\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278791582f7d649f9b1a6faaeae45f88a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e63d3823ec914f26adf239cbe85180e6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Clayton Cosgrove will just get a little less excited, please. Could the Hon Parekura Horomia please make clear what on earth he is trying to table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ee8703c09ca4c1a92e45ca4d42ffd58\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You may recall that the member asked a supplementary question quoting two statements. One was in relation to institutional racism, and there was another statement. Those statements were made by the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, who appeared to have forgotten that he had made them. Those are the statements being referred to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229677cfb3c2e74c0f8a51154e5804aa1a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept the member\u2019s point. Is that the document that the member is trying to table?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206bbf144be0d4e87bc4a9fe6036ab8f6\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: That is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225080b0beea8341aaa122cc0a4a918e5a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table such a document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002265babcd349f94ddbb2502901f6bed597\u0022\u003EAgriculture\u2014High Country\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f30a05b0c12648168785fdad3cfb26ae\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: What recent reports has he seen on agriculture and high country management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002291cb47015b844839bc732302f348dbfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291cb47015b844839bc732302f348dbfb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday I received the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment\u2019s excellent report entitled Change in the high country. This report takes a sensible and constructive approach to tenure review. It aligns with the Government\u2019s election commitment to take a fresh approach to the issue, while rejecting the previous Labour Government\u2019s divisive and damaging work in this area. As such, we will be carefully considering the recommendations made in the report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f50aa11dc7ad4bf183906e2ba0c9ce7a\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: How will this Government\u2019s approach to tenure review differ from that of previous administrations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7443ec31daf4ba585f4c4f8ad7b3283\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: This Government will approach tenure review in a vastly different manner. We fundamentally believe that high country farming and conservation are not mutually exclusive, and that the ongoing expansion of the Department of Conservation estate should not go on unquestioned. Clear instructions have already been given to relevant Government departments to implement a good-faith approach to tenure review negotiations, and I am pleased to report that high country runholders are already reporting to me a marked improvement in the approach taken by officials on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d9a5ca7d623441b90d3c6f367fc187e\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What role does the Government see for farmers in the management and enhancement of our unique high country landscapes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c64a903f531d4f439de200b20f2206a0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: This Government, unlike the previous Labour Government, is not interested in driving a wedge between high country farmers and the Crown. In many situations, farming families can be more effective in delivering environmental outcomes for our unique high country landscape than any Government department can. That is why the National Government sees the high country runholders, who have often farmed this land for generations, playing a major role in managing and enhancing the high country for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c4fb79bce8643eb9c4777a2a57eea68\u0022\u003EInternal Affairs, Minister\u2014Ministerial Requirements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f1aeddb369e4ff281d407f6648b3e64\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Internal Affairs: Can he confirm that as Minister of Internal Affairs he has met all the requirements of a Minister of the Crown as set out under \u201CConduct, public duty, and personal interests\u201D in Part 2 of the Cabinet Manual?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u00228330d4da93d94991ac64db7d4685a3e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228330d4da93d94991ac64db7d4685a3e1\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221519d93277b14844bb98e5c45d0fb765\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of his recent trip to India, which passport did the Minister travel on: his ministerial passport, or his personal passport?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262b841ddd097492baddf50488aad8a17\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: I travelled on my diplomatic passport, which, in terms of the rules, is correct. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b22c016835442e86ca3b34496d3042\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The members\u2019 colleague is seeking to ask a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0e0a8e1bd5249d89ce1917f13ace588\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: What possible explanation might there therefore be for the Minister and his mates receiving ministerial facilitation, to which he was not entitled, from Ministerial Services from Auckland Airport, or must the House conclude that because the Department of Internal Affairs is also the responsible department for Ministerial Services, the Minister wrongly used his own influence to pull a few strings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249011bfbf9d746dea31ad7ed0ebf8080\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This provision has been in the Cabinet Manual since 1984. Dr Worth has no responsibility for the Cabinet Manual. I think that it is ridiculous for these members, who were Ministers just a few months ago, to pretend they do not know what is in that manual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe9db8a05c614e66a9b8e2de6b6bd0ec\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is not alleging that the\u2014[Interruption] I ask members to desist; I am trying to deal with the point or order that the member has raised. I do not believe that the Hon Pete Hodgson is questioning the Minister in respect of the Cabinet Manual; rather, he is questioning the Minister\u2019s compliance with it. I invite the Hon Dr Richard Worth to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb47ec50a063414995d23f9141520e66\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: The current question is in connection with facilitation. The position there was that I was the only person who received facilitation in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b958235df1a54f82a2a802254312fb5d\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister satisfied that he has kept his Prime Minister abreast of all matters surrounding the appropriateness of the Minister\u2019s behaviour since becoming a Minister, or might he wish to make further private disclosures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b365aa6e9c54e23a83e1df9908dd681\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: To the best of my belief, I have behaved to the highest standards and in accordance with the Cabinet Manual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dfca5f363657411080dc79d112e149cb\u0022\u003ETreaty of Waitangi\u2014Settlement Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4dec64defa44e018f05bb6f7d6645a5\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: What is the Government doing to help achieve its aim of settling all historic grievances by 2014?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022158cde44849e4e92ae32d4bc99d31052\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022158cde44849e4e92ae32d4bc99d31052\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E In 2 weeks the Government is holding a hui to discuss with iwi who are currently engaged in Treaty settlement negotiations, or who are about to enter negotiations, how the Government\u2019s aim of settling historic grievances by 2014 can be achieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab3854cd170d415295f27da3038c6c10\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government holding the Te K\u014Dkiri Ng\u0101tahi hui?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a90cc0319d4455392ac7e828457e975\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is committed to resolving historic grievances in a just and durable manner, because settlements protect and promote M\u0101ori interests and identity by helping to develop a strong economic base. In order to increase the momentum in Treaty settlements, we have to look for ways in which we can achieve these settlements more quickly than we have done in the past. The Crown cannot make effective change unilaterally. The central North Island settlement shows how powerful creative cooperation can be in removing longstanding obstacles to progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233ac2b118e5e4462b05a642fbb02040c\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What issues or proposals will be discussed with iwi at Te K\u014Dkiri Ng\u0101tahi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223051df660b7e48bdab1bd493b0c80d0b\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government believes that changes in the Crown-M\u0101ori relationship can help it to achieve the settlement of historic grievances by 2014. These changes focus primarily on a stronger role for M\u0101ori in determining the nature of settlements, how settlements may be resolved, and how settlements are to be carried out. M\u0101ori have clear ideas about what works and does not work in this area. This hui is an opportunity to have a dialogue with M\u0101ori on these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022648eeb6fba29484884895e7b32c9b700\u0022\u003EACC, Minister\u2014Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b37c0aaf4434b5ab59ff8f37244502c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: Does he stand by his statement on Morning Report on 1 April when, in response to my statement that \u201Cyou\u2019ve been calling ACC insolvent\u201D, he said \u201CI have not\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7faf63c499f4b22a567fa030f921db2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7faf63c499f4b22a567fa030f921db2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. The member\u2019s assertion on Radio New Zealand National was incorrect, as it was based on a half-quote. I originally said: \u201Cif ACC was an insurance company, it would be insolvent.\u201D The advice I have received from the department and from the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) is that the corporation\u2019s solvency has declined over the last 3 years, and that its financial position is unsustainable without very large levy increases or significant changes in policy. I note that the new chair of ACC, Mr John Judge, whose experience I put over both mine and the member\u2019s in respect of finances, has used even stronger language than I have about the state of ACC\u2019s finances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f136fade30dc48afbdb07088ce00caf1\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister\u2019s denial have any credibility when Hansard, the official report of Parliament, quotes him as saying on 4 March 2009: \u201CThe reality is that ACC is effectively insolvent.\u201D; and how can he continue to deny that he misled the public and Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c180888a296041c8af30fdf7cd4a072f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The financial issue is very clear. As John Judge, the new chair of ACC, said to the select committee, this organisation has liabilities of $22 billion\u2014and I note that Mr Judge thinks that that is probably understating them\u2014and assets of $10 billion. Any private financial organisation in that position would be insolvent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9746db1aa694bcead9256e6bd3b5eae\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Earlier today in question time you made a good point, and I wrote it down at the time. You said that for Ministers to deny responsibility for something they plainly are responsible for leads to their not being a Minister for much longer. I think that struck to the heart of what question time is about. It is the role of the Opposition to ask questions of members of the executive in order to point out inconsistencies or irreconcilable statements. My questions today are not about whether ACC is insolvent; they are about whether Dr Smith has denied saying it was insolvent, when, in fact, he has said that. The member\u2019s answer to that question went down a completely different track and did not address the question I had asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240ca7a8a26b844a7ac10fcad3cb94f9c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I ask you to turn your attention to Speakers\u2019 rulings 165/5 and 165/6 and, for that matter, 165/3 as well. They make it very, very clear that the Speaker does not judge whether a Minister answers. Appealing to you, as Opposition members have been doing frequently lately, for an intervention like that stands in stark contrast to the intention of those rulings. There are quite a large number of other Speakers\u2019 rulings as well on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4cffca268f84c1f9e60a4edb4f64be6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Honourable members are well aware that I have been trying to improve the standard of answers to questions rather more than, perhaps, some other recent Speakers have done. But I would ask the honourable member to reflect on the fact that, as Speaker, I can require answers to be more precise only when the questions are clear. The primary question was, I must accept, pretty clear, and the Minister answered it. But if the member reflects on the words he used in introducing his supplementary question, he said\u2014if I recollect correctly\u2014words like \u201CHow can the Minister deny that \u2026\u201D. It was that type of question. If one wants precise answers, the language used in questions has to be very clear. Members will have noted that where I have been requiring answers, the nature of the questions asked has been very simple, very clear, and with no political overlay. As Speaker I will do my best to make sure members get an answer, but I invite the member just to think about the language that precedes the substance of his question, because it makes it difficult for me to insist on an answer. I invite the member to ask a further supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231eed83783194ef4b574f0a11fc316f1\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My difficulty is that it is hard for me to be more specific than to quote Hansard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236760d1eabd34c2ba15f972669d00b0d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The point I was making to the honourable member was that there was nothing wrong with quoting Hansard\u2014that is dead right. It is the language that precedes his question that makes things so difficult. When he asks \u201CHow can the Minister \u2026\u201D he is seeking an opinion about how the Minister can do that. The Minister gave an answer about how he could successfully do that, in his opinion. That is why I invite the member to think about the language he uses when asking a question. The Minister, in my view, has to try to answer the question, and the Minister did, because in explaining how he could say what he said he explained his thinking around that. As Speaker I cannot insist on a better answer than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c98ad8028ad44750a2c862be321ab0ed\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister take his standard of conduct from the John Key edition of the Cabinet Manual, which is also relied upon by Richard Worth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f81960b4dc654f888fae2f8f1f865931\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: If there is any issue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad4119a0acd44718abf88fa61229206c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If you are going to demand higher-quality answers from members on the Government side of the House, then surely you should be asking for higher-quality questions from members on the Opposition side of the House. That question was totally gratuitous in its nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273f2e0c1b5ba4a66b6ec1018e89dcaa3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, as I recollect your rulings so far\u2014and we are creating a whole new set of rulings in this area\u2014what you have argued is that if a political question is being asked, then a political answer is perfectly in order. I suspect you would think that that question was a rather political question, and the Minister may be able to give, therefore, a rather political answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022547d5bb6aa664132ad2b60703d242380\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a good point. I did not intervene, because the Minister gets the last word. Where a question is gratuitously political, the member asking it can expect to be dumped on politically. I am sure that Ministers are perfectly capable of doing that, and I am sure that they would not wish me to rule out questions that gave them the opportunity to do it. But the reason why answers are important when a straight question has been asked is that I believe the accountability of Ministers to this Parliament is at stake. Where a political question is asked, I am sure Ministers are perfectly capable of dealing with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229916922648e1447fadb1bdae721e53d1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by the statements I have made about the state of the finances of ACC as part of being honest and up front with the public about the extent of the problems. It is just a pity that Labour breached the Public Finance Act in hiding the mess that it left in ACC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221476b7ee174040018a489c6249fc6093\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There is a difference between a political answer and one that point-blank denies an independent inquiry. Labour was not found guilty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222435642a200e43859a7577d27477e3ba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat! The member must resume his seat now! I do not want the member, in his last days, to be the first to take an early shower\u2014although I am very impressed by the member\u2019s exercise regime. The member cannot use a point of order to question whether the statement the Minister is making is correct; that is not the correct procedure for dealing with his disagreeing with it. He can ask a further supplementary question, should he wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d7e30a13a72424e908e55b6e6af8ff3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take personal exception to the statement that there was a breach of the Public Finance Act by Labour, because that could refer only to me and the previous Minister for ACC. There was an independent public inquiry. The scaffolding was erected, the rope was provided, but the independent inquirer declined to hang us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223086670a6b094632bcb1171703b2a69c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table the report of the inquiry, which makes plain that the Public Finance Act was breached in the non-disclosure of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223760671e7c3d4b48935b06912838bf90\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022115b898bbb11401491e861ddd3a1bc0e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member\u2014and, indeed, you\u2014ignored my point of order. The breach was found to be a breach in terms of Treasury\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022885f906123214647b227b8f9f5882a63\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a debatable point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261e67f6c3f744ea0b43af73d9fa28295\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: No, Mr Speaker, it is not a debatable point; it is a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222331ee2a2662463c9ee2ee6f3d612b27\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Where we get into difficulty is that I know that the member may feel strongly about this matter, but the Standing Orders do not provide for a debate during question time about the accuracy of answers. Where the member feels that an answer has not been accurate, he can use a supplementary question to further delve into that matter, but he cannot use points of order to refute an answer a Minister has given, no matter how strongly he feels\u2014unless he wishes to make a personal explanation, and he can seek leave to do so. But he cannot use a point of order to refute the answer from the Minister. He can only use supplementary questions to do that. I am warning the honourable member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acf80d7687234892b323fa828b9127c2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am entitled to seek protection from you in this matter, and I am entitled to seek an assurance from you that when the Minister said \u201CLabour\u201D he was not referring to a member of this House being in breach of a statute, because if he was, I will require him to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9258e75cd044c01892aa97eee5fc210\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Often, the debate in the House is about ministerial responsibility. There is no question but that Dr Cullen was the responsible Minister for the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update. It is clear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc13876c75ee44de988d8cee94096866\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister please resume his seat. We are getting into a debate about this matter, not matters of order. I realise that Dr Cullen feels strongly about this matter, but the Standing Orders do not provide for answers to be refuted by way of points of order. I cannot provide the kind of protection he seeks, because the Standing Orders do not provide for that. He can, though, ask a supplementary question, if he wishes, to refute the answer the Minister has given. I think we should come now to a further supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eeb8261a7284132a3b780a26e8a75a9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am not seeking to refute an answer; I am seeking an assurance, which I am entitled to do in this situation, that when the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226093b41e8bcf41039ced7d36df2211dc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Cullen will resume his seat. I have reached the limit of my patience. He cannot raise a point of order unless he wishes to make a personal explanation. The Standing Orders provide for that situation. If he feels that his integrity has been impugned, he can make a personal explanation, and the House must accept it. But he cannot use the Standing Orders to refute an answer. There is no provision for that situation. I have ruled finally on that issue, and I will not hear further on it. I make that very clear. If this matter is raised again, I will ask a member to leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281c2123b015c48ae9ce69ea17d53b2d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to make a personal explanation on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022134e1420b569464c9f01d55fc9cbf3b2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to make a personal explanation. Is there any objection to that? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4f694384f747f1a3f580f5e767c291\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: On a number of occasions in the House since the election the claim has been made that I breached the Public Finance Act because of non-disclosure of matters relating to ACC. An independent inquiry was formed to inquire into that matter. That inquiry found that the rules that Treasury was following in relation to disclosure were not consistent with the Public Finance Act. The inquiry specifically did not find any blame on the part of, or any breach by, the two Ministers who might have been involved\u2014I and Maryan Street. Therefore, there was no breach of the Public Finance Act by me or, indeed, by Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cf933bef9d04e348553e351e8d6aa43\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a completely different point of order. We have a new microphone system in this House\u2014relatively new; it was installed in the last year\u2014and I noticed that when Dr Cullen was making his earlier points of order, the person in control of the microphone button cut him off prematurely, as soon as the Speaker started to rise. It is very normal in this House for the end of phrases to be allowed to be delivered, and things come to a natural conclusion. I find it somewhat over the top when, effectively, someone acting for the Speaker\u2014and I am not suggesting it is the Speaker\u2014switches people off in a way that ruins the flow of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b371bf05c1847db8f22541af697f70c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have no control. I assure the member that I did not switch off the sound. But I do make clear that the one thing I insist on being respected in this House is that when the Speaker gets to his feet, any member on his or her feet, unless it is a special occasion, will sit down. I do not care whether the member has finished what he or she is saying. There is no dispute about that matter; he or she will sit down. It is hugely important to the good order of this House. If the member has a further supplementary question, I invite him to ask it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c9fc5e0df274834bcb4643b25407625\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister intend to adopt the National practice made popular by his colleague Dr Worth of phoning the Prime Minister on Saturday afternoon to confess to being caught out on his irreconcilable inconsistencies; if so, does he expect absolution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daa1acee07884f459f145d30867e7007\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I find it interesting that the answers I have given to the member about the financial state of ACC are totally supported by the evidence that was given by Mr John Judge at the select committee, which was actually that, far from my statements being shonky, I had been too conservative, and the problems were worse than I had stated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf0e9ab55d2e41aabb17ca681b64d8fc\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister received from the new ACC chair on ACC\u2019s liabilities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9ae701c5d8846b6b07fe5a2dadf2525\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr John Judge has advised me that after meeting with the scheme\u2019s actuaries and the auditors he believes that the figure of $22 billion in liabilities\u2014described by members opposite as a gross exaggeration\u2014is actually light. He notes, for instance, that the $22 billion is based on future health-care inflation in the out-years of 1 percent per annum, when in the last 10 years it has been running at an average of 6 percent. There are also very optimistic assumptions about improvement in rehabilitation rates, when over the last 5 years rehabilitation has been getting worse. The chair has advised me that the true liabilities of ACC\u2014making more realistic assumptions\u2014are likely to be at least $2 billion worse than those I have quoted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d1f0e54bfd1a41c7bf8810e0a5be4204\u0022\u003EHolidays Act\u2014Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e56cb4721ac4078aa74db8d349dff1e\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: What progress has the Government made in reviewing the Holidays Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022f34e7915b06c4eadb634b7b97136fe42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f34e7915b06c4eadb634b7b97136fe42\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to say that significant progress has been made under this Government. Draft terms of reference have been drawn up for a working party to review several areas of the legislation, including the calculation of relevant daily pay, the transfer of public holidays by agreement, and giving workers the choice to trade their fourth week of leave for cash. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278e0cf987d5742888658ff1f552d9f8b\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: Who will be involved in the working party that is reviewing the legislation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ea6b25f599e451ea47b15d6a9f6720e\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The working party will feature both Business New Zealand and the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions. I am incredibly pleased to work with both organisations on this, and I can say that the level of cooperation from both has been fantastic. One of the first tasks the working party will undertake will be to determine who else needs to be consulted on the proposed changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022255c6045073d413a89c7c5476bae569b\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government reviewing the holidays legislation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d358c1cc1324942ab3110284bd14b7e\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are reviewing the legislation because it is not up to the job. It is causing significant issues for employees and businesses, leading to unnecessary confusion and compliance costs. It is absolutely absurd that cases centred on the Holidays Act have had to go as high as the Supreme Court to be resolved. The previous Labour Government tried to address the issues in 2003 and failed; it tried again in 2004 and failed; and it did so again in 2008. We are just doing what should have been done years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa6be93dd09542039d919cd5f746aac3\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Corporation\u20142007-08 Financial Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228c050ffcb3448bbba4b10ae4d17dcba\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: Did he tell reporters: \u201Cmy appearance arose because the chairman phoned me, the chairman of the committee said that having been advised that Mr Judge was unavailable, would I be available for answering questions about the changes I was making on the board\u201D; if so, does he stand by that comment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002263d0206cda0841218dd71e6516519f80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263d0206cda0841218dd71e6516519f80\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; the indisputable facts are these. First, Mr Judge was genuinely unavailable, and asked me to attend the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. Second, I discussed my attendance with the select committee chair, David Bennett, and Mr Bennett agreed. Third, the first thing I said to the committee when I attended was that Mr Judge would appear at the earliest convenient opportunity, and this he has done. I think arguments over whether I phoned Mr Bennett or Mr Bennett phoned me, or whether I was attending the select committee on Mr Judge\u2019s behalf or apologising on his behalf, are simply diversions from the real issue of the mess that the previous Government left the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241f57fe9ae6c4db59224632ca0042949\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s answer to the substantive question, why did he tell the New Zealand Press Association that he never said Mr Judge asked him to appear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ad85c18efae4dacb45750f609eccd9d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The record is quite plain. I spoke with Mr Judge after a Cabinet meeting, advising him of his appointment as the new chair of the ACC board. He advised me that he would be unavailable on the Thursday when the select committee sought the attendance of the chair. Mr Judge asked me to attend. I subsequently had a discussion with the select committee chair. He believed and agreed that that was a good thing to do, given that I was in the process of reconfiguring the ACC board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5255d1ce78e4db69ce99a5afbeadf26\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This was a very simple question. It was: \u201Cwhy did he tell the New Zealand Press Association that he never said Mr Judge asked him to appear?\u201D. It had nothing to do with the general background. We have only one supplementary question left for the day, so the option of asking the supplementary question again, as you often invite people to do, is not one that is useful. I ask you to ask the Minister to address the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223de69ac769104a85af621a00cb58760c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member has pointed out that he does have a further supplementary question available to him to delve further into this issue. I cannot insist on the Minister answering in a particular way. The Minister seemed to give an explanation as to exactly what went on. In that, it appeared to answer the question. If that is not the case, the member does have a further supplementary question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d60654b82cf403c9800528bfdb347d1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister tell the New Zealand Press Association that he never said Mr Judge asked him to appear at the committee? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022453800142ba04c7aba078342f67a86cf\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The record is quite clear. On the Monday, I advised Mr Judge, with Cabinet\u2019s support\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224650397c9193448fbb9cad32909d9124\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question. It\u2019s about NZPA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5e53c1f85584d40aa2e8222e70afe77\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am underlining the events that occurred. The new chair of ACC\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dda8c88a189a4105af7ffd2d79f6a5bc\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I will now do something that is really unusual. I will ask my colleagues to let the Minister hang himself and to not interject. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228432f5b1e46b4ccb965ca524d694fb7e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order is a good one. If members do not want the Minister to deviate in answering the question, they should not interject. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b9a9273b349495a8305c8b5ad9faa2a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: My statements have been absolutely consistent in the fact that when I informed Mr Judge of his appointment as the ACC chair, he informed me that he would be unavailable for the select committee meeting later in the week. He invited me to attend and to apologise on his behalf. That is exactly what occurred. The very first statement I made to the select committee when I attended was that Mr Judge would make himself available at the earliest convenient opportunity. He did that. I cannot believe that the Opposition believes that a simple 2-week delay in being able to meet the new chair of ACC over a financial review for the previous financial year is some big deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bd65641205a4087a064b91cad5f5cec\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is the same point of order that I raised when I had one supplementary question left. It is that this was a very simple question: \u201Cwhy did he tell the New Zealand Press Association that he never said Mr Judge asked him to appear?\u201D. The New Zealand Press Association was not referred to in the answer, and no reason was given for the Minister giving an answer to the New Zealand Press Association that was inconsistent to that he has just given to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4b33577531546f48c13b67236fda43c\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f0c14c435de4d4e9ce2dce3bbf7d4e0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I need to deal with this point of order that has been raised. It is a very difficult one. I accept the point the member is making, which is that he is asking a very specific question. If we look at the primary question, which has to be verified, what he is now building into this supplementary question is what the Minister might have told the New Zealand Press Association. The dilemma I have in trying to extract a more precise answer from the Minister is that that question has not had to go through the verification process that the primary question did. That is something of a difficulty for me, because the Minister has explained what he did, in answer to the member\u2019s question. Obviously, there is the chance to pursue this matter further in the future, but it is difficult for me. I have to accept an unverified\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202c0bca23d0d4daeb3f04d9f7b1ab5bd\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is absolutely right. You do have to accept something that is unverified when a member quotes it. It is open to the Minister to deny saying he said that to the New Zealand Press Association. As a number of us have done in the past when inaccurate quotes have been given to us, he has chosen not to deny saying that to the New Zealand Press Association, notwithstanding that he has had two opportunities to do it. It is very clear that he did\u2014he was quoted as doing that, and the supplementary question related to why he told the New Zealand Press Association that. He has been given two opportunities to deny the quote and he has not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd1d0dddae8d4889bf29ae4c92fa9dc2\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Last week we covered the issue of the questioner trying to frame the context in which an answer must be given, and then expecting the Chair to back him or her. The other day I gave the example of the \u201Cyes\u201D or \u201Cno\u201D answer that is in Speaker\u2019s ruling 157/8. There is also Speaker\u2019s ruling 162/6, and Speakers\u2019 rulings 163/6 and 163/2, and so on; throughout Speakers\u2019 Rulings there are these requirements. Mr Speaker, you are being constantly asked to put yourself in a position that previous Speakers have roundly rejected. In that regard, although I do not want to read it out, I commend Speaker\u2019s ruling 163/5, where Speaker Hunt makes it extremely clear that the position Mr Mallard wants to put you in is an unacceptable one. For the order of the House, you have made some explanations to Mr Mallard, but I do not think they are necessary. I think they are giving greater credence to the capacity of a questioner to frame a question that then must be answered according to the parameters set in that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EDr Nick Smith gave an explanation. That surely stands as an answer that satisfies any one of the complaints that might have arisen before recourse to any of the rules in Speakers\u2019 Rulings that essentially mean a Minister can answer in a way that he or she deems fit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b3f5057c8e44f4e8ae7cad30591755d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I have been listening very carefully to your rulings since you became Speaker, and I have taken your advice to ask tight primary questions and tight supplementary questions. This supplementary question was very tight. It asked \u201Cwhy?\u201D in relation to a particular quote. Neither the quote nor the \u201Cwhy?\u201D was addressed. So it is my submission that you are not being asked to judge the quality of the answer; you are being asked whether the supplementary question was addressed. It is my submission that it was not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279adbc277b54436ea22aaa9c67b397fe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a difficult issue and I accept that I have put myself in a position that is rather more difficult than some recent Speakers have. But I have done that intentionally, because I believe that this Parliament and the issue of accountability are too important to allow the practice of evasion of questions that developed during the previous term of this Parliament to continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EIn the interest of fairness\u2014because I cannot judge the quality of an answer\u2014I will allow the honourable member to repeat his question, although his allocation of supplementary questions has expired. We will accept that the quality of the answer will be judged by members of the public, and we will not intervene further on the matter. I am giving the member a chance to repeat his question. I will allow the Minister to answer it, and the quality of that answer will be judged by others, not us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a59a3942cf89495cb8fa17c30e06ec45\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. On what basis are you doing that? That was surely\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274570b076fc64c2586d865ff054179eb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0a454356d71457292257ce1f1e764c9\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I want to tease this out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed3403d8968f40e5a8f3eb618344b376\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. I can tell him exactly on what basis I am doing that. I suggest that he looks at Standing Order 377. The very first requirement of that Standing Order is that a question shall be answered. It does not say that a Minister will respond to a question. The actual Standing Order, in respect of contents of replies, states: \u201C(1) An answer\u201D\u2014it does not say \u201Ca response\u201D, it says \u201Can answer\u201D, and in the English language it is pretty clear what \u201Canswer\u201D means. That is the basis of my ruling. I have invited the Hon Trevor Mallard to ask a further supplementary question but we will not continue the debate beyond that. The answer given will be judged by others, not us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f824764b6404e029743d4f3de3771ea\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. All of the Standing Orders are given life by Speakers\u2019 rulings that accumulate over a period of years. I refer you to Speaker\u2019s ruling 166/6. I think it would be impossible for anyone to suggest that Dr Smith has not made every attempt to answer the question. There is another ruling that deals with the issue of the problem in the word \u201Canswer\u201D. Someone has to reach some sort of definition or conclusion about what an answer is. That is why Speakers are protected by the accumulation of rulings. Are we now going to toss all of those out and start again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f83ba1df12274ca1983a20b4aab88125\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: It does seem to me\u2014and I have some sympathy for the position taken by the Leader of the House\u2014that the interpretation of Standing Order 377 has to be governed by the first few words of Standing Order 377(1), which are: \u201CAn answer that seeks to address the question asked \u2026\u201D. That effectively has two qualifiers within it before it gets any further\u2014first of all, \u201Cseeking\u201D and, secondly, \u201Caddressing\u201D the question asked\u2014if, of course, it can be given consistently with the public interest. It is always for a Minister to decide whether it is consistent with the public interest to give an answer. The response to that, of course, is simply not to give an answer, or to indicate that an answer will not be given because is not consistent with the public interest. Once a Minister has launched into an answer, the answer should seek to address the question asked. It is all very well, on quite narrow factual matters, to try to get Ministers to address a factual question\u2014\u201CWhen did the Minister do such and such?\u201D; \u201CHow many such and such?\u201D, \u201CWhat such and such?\u201D\u2014but most questions are not phrased in that framework. When they go beyond that framework, then the Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 rulings have not required Ministers to have a very narrow interpretation of what they are able to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIndeed, Mr Speaker, I invite you perhaps on occasion to look at the Australian Parliament if one wants to see a very bad question time in operation. A person asks a question, there are no supplementary questions, and the Minister has, in effect, unlimited time to give a speech in response to that question. Answers are often 3 minutes or more in length. Question time is something of a farce. It is a series of ministerial speeches in response to questions, half of which are patsy questions, anyway, from members of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOur question time is much more robust on Ministers in that regard. I think we have to be careful, in going so far as to try to bring Ministers up to the mark, in starting to insist on a particular type of answer in a way that allows a much less free interchange between members on both sides of the House. Our question time, in my view, is already by far the most robust of any Westminster-style Parliament in the world. I think one should not be going too far in changing the thrust of past Speakers\u2019 rulings in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f95e675f37c44a98b807cf5f5ee1e289\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I think the difficulty for a Minister is that when a member, without notice, quotes a particular statement and asks why that contradicts another statement, I have no opportunity to check it. What I chose to answer to the House was specifically what occurred around the question: \u201CWhat was the communication I had with the new chair of ACC about attendance at the committee?\u201D. I gave a very clear and straight answer about that important issue relating to my ministerial responsibilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220162aa1c641e494cb9cbf70a0544dca7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bd24eb69b2a4ee59aca637047d4d51f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think I have heard enough on this matter, and we cannot take any more time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226528641edf7949d2bc80de9a599ceb60\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It is actually helpful, I think. It will be very short and very helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258fdc83aa3fc43508b357329252aef55\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is trying to be helpful, I will give him that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccc7f19ad6a2445886bd3b0e94e7ea61\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I know we should not be coaching the Government from the Opposition benches. The proper response in that case is to say \u201CI don\u2019t recall making that statement.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9b3d8d5dff84d5c867a874c02a32992\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank honourable members for their contributions. There has been tremendous public support for the attempts to make question time a time when Ministers are held more to account in this House. The impressive point is that answers have improved enormously. The point the Hon Dr Michael Cullen made is a good one\u2014that it works best where questions are seeking factual information on notice. The point that the Hon Dr Nick Smith made is also a good one\u2014that where supplementary questions contain material that is not verified, it is very difficult for a Minister to be able to answer exactly, because he or she has no opportunity to check the validity of the quote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI think it has been a useful discussion. Let me make it very clear that I do not intend to back off from my interpretation of Standing Order 377. It has had widespread support. In fact, I think Ministers look rather better when they answer questions, rather than evading them. The House is improved by that. But members do need to be reasonable when seeking my intervention in answers to questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWe got to the stage where I had agreed to allow the Hon Trevor Mallard to ask a further supplementary question, which promoted a point of order. My dilemma now is, having allowed the member to ask a further supplementary question, I think we should allow it. However, I take on board the points made by honourable members. I do not seek to make question time impossible at all. The quality of answers has improved hugely compared with the last parliamentary term, and I do not want that improvement to be lost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c266886137364cb88d850b577a19bf69\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is important. You have decided to allow the member to ask his question again, after he protested about not getting a satisfactory answer. We would contend that by every standard you have set, either for this Parliament or previously, when an answer is given, it does tend to mean that you will interpret Speakers\u2019 rulings 165/5 and 165/6 in quite a different manner. I would be very interested if you could come back to us at a future time to tell us how those matters that are raised in those two Speakers\u2019 rulings\u2014the matters of the neutral word \u201Canswer\u201D and then of course the subjective term \u201Caddress\u201D\u2014will be considered in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221037deafd14841f8a828f19557575c6b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the member and I am very happy to rule on it right now. Yes, he is correct. I am not continuing with Speaker\u2019s ruling 165/5, because I happen to disagree totally. The word \u201Canswer\u201D is not a neutral word. I have studied the academic writings of the previous Speaker in some detail where this matter has been discussed. I have read the papers carefully. I have read the Standing Orders very carefully. I have a different view. In fact, that Speaker\u2019s ruling is not one that will guide my decision making. I have made it very clear, in response to this further question, that we will not be judging the quality of this answer. I have made that very clear to the member. I invite the question to be asked and the Minister to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b20083347c5f4f94b77fb367b8a758d3\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is a substantial shift in the way in which the House deals with things. I ask myself whether it means that you will refer to Speaker\u2019s ruling 163/5 as a guide to how you will run question time in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt may be best that you do not respond now. It would useful if we could have some notification of that in some other way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae5291e0986b4b34952ddeda38b05890\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the honourable member that these matters are not difficult. The Speaker does not, as Speaker\u2019s ruling 163/5 points out, judge whether an answer is correct. What is often so plain to all, including the public watching and listening, is when a very simple and clear question is evaded. If accountability is to be as those who wrote that original Standing Order intended, then questions should be answered with rather more clarity than has become the practice in recent years. That does not mean, though, that the Speaker will judge the quality of an answer, or whether it is correct. That is why we had the trouble with Dr Cullen\u2019s point of order earlier on. I cannot judge whether an answer is correct, but it is patently clear, at times, where questions are evaded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI have made it clear that there will be no further debate on the answer to this question. I have invited the member to ask a further supplementary question. I cannot now go back and take that off him. I invite the Minister to answer it, and there will be no further debate on that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c091845a5efd40da9ee40c827aa1cd8c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Perhaps if I could helpfully, I hope, draw to your attention that the Speakers\u2019 rulings in the current Speakers\u2019 Rulings book are, of course, quite recent ones, but they repeat in essence Speakers\u2019 rulings that go back many, many decades. In other words, while you are appearing to argue that this is a relatively recent matter, in fact the issue of the nature of Ministers\u2019 replies to questions is one that has been argued in this House for many, many decades, long before anyone in this Chamber was anywhere near it. So I think it would be somewhat unhelpful if you were to assume this was some kind of recent occurrence, and recent rulings are responding to those occurrences. They are not. They are deeply embedded within the tradition of our Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI think, therefore, you might want to contemplate over the coming adjournment just how far this new interpretation goes. I think it will cause continued difficulty during question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4f9d739a516403c8b93de85a59b3372\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister tell the New Zealand Press Association that he never said Mr Judge asked him to appear at the meeting? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286b4f3b9041146a98be9a54472e9c10e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot recall the exact words I used to the New Zealand Press Association, but my very clear recollection is that when Mr Judge, the new chair of the ACC board, was unavailable to attend the select committee, he asked me to attend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222369f32fcf564d7c8781b22d4389abbf\u0022\u003EVeterans\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a8834e854cb4270ac064d40137c30da\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Veterans\u2019 Affairs: What reports, if any, has she received on veterans\u2019 service-related health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6b161d79ac24589be6ed462c66d0918\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6b161d79ac24589be6ed462c66d0918\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Veterans\u2019 Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to confirm the appointment of the expert panel on veterans\u2019 health, one of the commitments agreed to in the memorandum of understanding between the Crown, the Royal New Zealand Returned and Services\u2019 Association, and the Ex-Vietnam Services Association. The expert panel is an important step in improving the understanding of issues related to the service-related health of all veterans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd839c1e849e4c5097b5eb4726bdff39\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: How did the memorandum of understanding come about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dca23a9aa2c34896bcd2a2192aa0db23\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The memorandum of understanding was a direct result of the Health Committee\u2019s inquiry into Viet Nam veterans\u2019 exposure to defoliants. The then National Opposition worked with the Greens, ACT, United Future, and New Zealand First to secure the inquiry. It was a great example of parties working together. I also say that once the inquiry was secured, all members of the committee, including the Labour members, worked very hard to address the concerns of veterans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248f902a599564d5abd0159b1e45f8b72\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Did the previous Government exaggerate any part of the memorandum of understanding package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3a49a992f3842fd921df6d54d34649f\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. What responsibility does the National Minister have for the previous Labour Government? She has none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c37196af1c8e41fa90f0f8ecda6438f1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the honourable member to repeat his question, and to be mindful of the Minister\u2019s responsibilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ac4f7ccf1fc4853b21cbca938f6077b\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Since you have come into the House as Minister, have you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f8e8919d36f4ab3af7b32c346203cb4\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member asked a question and said \u201Cyou\u201D. I respectfully suggest that you, Mr Speaker, have no responsibility for that question, at all, and that that is out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fab84b52da8c49778fffd140e3a495f4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a very good point, and I will give the member one further chance to ask a question that is in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273fa88f5254b4518a0326ae0275581b3\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen that might suggest there has been an exaggeration in elements of the memorandum of understanding package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc73e909fc84855a2d3c7d0f810a292\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunately, when the memorandum of understanding was announced in December 2006, the former Minister of Defence, Phil Goff, and his colleague Rick Barker implied that the package would deliver $30 million up front. They said \u201CThe package will deliver benefits close to $30 million.\u201D, and they did not correct the media when it was described as such. However, the figure of $30 million was based primarily on an initial endowment of $7 million, which was expected to be invested at 6 percent over 30 years. Unfortunately, the current financial crisis and fall in interest rates could result in a fall in the funds available for distribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224565a085b35f441399d0b3f27c593118\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e3cd6a0e41b44909df0c982ef5e19b1\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Corporation\u20142007-08 Financial Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022872a9feb4d3442d9a21313cd10fc5cab\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee: Was he asked to phone the Minister for ACC to discuss the question of who should attend the financial review of ACC for the 2007-08 year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022facfc392993b42bda11b4bbe2e0de037\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022facfc392993b42bda11b4bbe2e0de037\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I had discussions with the Minister about his attendance. That may have involved some phone calls at the request of his office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002288eb5a15aab446d6a0fc8f6e0a8dd83c\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Corporation\u20142007-08 Financial Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a956682639694d3ba81e38578f9c7464\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee: Did he phone the Minister for ACC and discuss the matter of who should attend the financial review of ACC for the 2007-08 year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002221b554170fc14ac999c0d3a101078559\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221b554170fc14ac999c0d3a101078559\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I had discussions with the Minister, and that may have involved phone calls to the Minister\u2019s office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275537884c23349d881887e65478a7d3e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Very directly\u2014did he call, or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e7a7204bdbe4ebd830b6c55f6e52507\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I had discussions with the Minister, and that may have involved phone calls. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c18e201e39044d7a9490ac0617360c6e\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Corporation\u20142007-08 Financial Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7140ab1c00c4316bcf64af0b1d3c422\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee: Did the Minister for ACC inform him that John Judge was not available to attend the committee meeting on 12 March 2009?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4b350d28c554377b57f1e66748cfd68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4b350d28c554377b57f1e66748cfd68\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I did not ask Mr Judge to attend, so it is not a matter of his availability. I did agree that the Minister would attend, and Mr Judge made it quite clear at the select committee on 2 April as to his availability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c66052087024fe38ef416b2b80e82c1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister for ACC tell him that John Judge could not come?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b738201e645f4ada9067d6b75bea1792\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I did not ask Mr Judge to attend, so it is not a matter of whether he was asked to attend. The Minister did attend, and the Labour members got much value out of his attendance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223594c246728c47f3ac45957b25af7c24\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister tell the chair that John Judge could not come to the committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1726e15b2204a82ae80d67f4918d43a\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We have had this question a number of times in this House. I did not ask Mr Judge to attend that meeting, so it is not a matter of his availability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d3c74ffcb364c57937a828c0acc31e9\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Corporation\u20142007-08 Financial Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231197391b2264c9995819e2c7a95b5b1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee: Did he invite the Minister for ACC to attend the meeting of the committee on the financial review of ACC for the 2007-08 year held on 12 March 2009?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002202c68e71fc824bc099abef05b13ff233\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202c68e71fc824bc099abef05b13ff233\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I agreed that the Minister would attend the meeting of 12 March, and I am not aware of any invitations made as chair of the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3fe1d142f0f452b8b1f630af6aee009\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: When the chair agreed, was he agreeing with the proposition put to him by the Minister for ACC? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216b2f683e3844bff9280c0b97ec0b4de\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I agreed that the Minister would attend, and there was a lot of value in his attendance at that time because of the reconfiguration of the board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022848183b61a2345bfbc3e628266a7aadf\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: When the chair agreed, was he agreeing to a proposition put to him by the Minister for ACC?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f66e2b6f327b4790b05f3cda82ff80be\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I agreed, and the Minister did attend the meeting. There was much value there for members of the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc06461973ce44e1b5c7ce15dcbc207a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfc351e59c4a494b88d8ed79dc12acfc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think I have allowed as many supplementaries as is reasonable\u2014far more than any other Speaker has previously allowed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0d93393e0f04a9c87c772a6ea5f16b7\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022911420ab87c3440d98afe55ee463a277\u0022\u003ERoyal Commission on Auckland Governance\u2014Government Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00223dca717be2a944b9ba00eb0557b933a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223dca717be2a944b9ba00eb0557b933a6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Leader of the Opposition seeking to debate under Standing Order 380 the Government\u2019s decisions on Auckland governance. This is a particular case of recent occurrence\u2014the decisions were announced yesterday afternoon after the House had met\u2014and it does involve ministerial responsibility. The announcement concerns governance arrangements that are of national significance, and I consider they do require the immediate attention of the House. I call upon the Leader of the Opposition to move the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022533dc11eaddc4746abb8ec68a31b204b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022533dc11eaddc4746abb8ec68a31b204b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. As Mr Speaker has so rightly pointed out, the changes that are being recommended to the governance structures in Auckland are the biggest changes in the history of local government in Auckland. It is important that we get it right, and it is equally important that the people of Auckland have some say over their own future\u2014that they get ownership over the changes they will live under and work through. I have to say that after the report of the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance, the changes that have been recommended by this Government take us in absolutely the wrong direction. The changes take us away from democratic governance, and the process the Government is intending to follow is equally undemocratic. There is no opportunity for Aucklanders to have meaningful participation in the process of change, because this Government has decided that what it wants for Auckland will be imposed on Auckland without any further consultation before the key decisions have been made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ELabour set up the royal commission; we make absolutely no apology for that. It was the right thing to do. We know that Auckland needs a strong regional structure to carry out the regional responsibilities that are required of such a government, whether it be in transport, the environment, water, or planning. We set up a royal commission that contained able, competent, and serious people. The royal commission report therefore merited a serious response and consideration. I congratulate the people who served on the royal commission. Having read the report, we have said that we think the regional structure is appropriate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4256cff775c49daab8b013f4c21382f\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: It took you a while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225648089261fa4794a8e487d551abddbf\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: No, it did not take any time at all. The member, of course, is wrong; a statement went out immediately after the royal commission report, and it said that we supported the regional structure and the powers that went with it. But we also said that this was a step along the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe think there are some shortcomings in the royal commission\u2019s report, and those shortcomings are as follows: \u201CRegional government\u2014strong, able to deliver the services that need to be delivered regionally, but do not take the \u2018local\u2019 out of local government.\u201D We wanted the responsibilities that should be carried out at the level of the proposed local councils to actually be carried out at that local level, with the requisite powers and the funding to do so. And there was a possibility through those six local councils that that could have happened. They were of a scale whereby they could have been funded, I understand, to the extent of some hundreds of millions of dollars, in order to carry out local responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe said that we had a problem with the voting system. What is wanted, when we have a city the size of the proposed new Auckland City, is representation that is fair and balanced across the city. You know, I remember the time before the reforms in 1989 when Auckland City did not have a ward system. And I remember, as a member of Parliament representing the south of the isthmus\u2014Mount Roskill, and the Mount Albert area as well\u2014that we had too few representatives, and that the representatives came from the wealthier, more affluent suburbs of town. But the reform in 1989 cured that, and the system worked well. Rodney Hide knows that in the letter he has received from six Auckland mayors and the Auckland Regional Council, they have all said they wanted a ward system for Auckland. That is the way we can guarantee that every part of our city is fairly represented. [Interruption] John Carter can talk! Paul Hutchison is sitting in front of him; he knows what his people told him at the local meeting. So does Wayne Mapp. He knows the discontent about the fact that the new system does not provide fair and balanced representation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E Now, in that respect, the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance got it wrong. It said 10 \u201Cat large\u201D seats and 10 ward seats. The changes that the Government has made in this area are only on the margin. I believe that Mr Hide and Mr Key are deliberately gerrymandering the system to ensure a permanent majority by those people representing the affluent side of town, at the expense of people in the poorer suburbs. I went with some of my colleagues to \u014Ctara on Monday, to a meeting of 150 people. The meeting was not called about the super-city specifically. It was about broad issues\u2014they were predominately Pasifika. The most powerful issues that were raised that day were about the super-city and the need to have fair representation. It was about not losing the \u201Clocal\u201D out of local democracy, and not having their suburb, \u014Ctara, ruled from the other side of town by people who have no conception of their needs and the concerns that they have in their part of the city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe third thing that Labour differed on with the royal commission was the need for checks and balances on the mayor. I think, on balance, we decided that having the mayor of the super-city elected \u201Cat large\u201D was necessary. But we do not believe that this should be a presidential-style mayor. We believe that the deputy mayor should be elected from the Auckland Council. We believe that the chairs of the committees should be elected from the Auckland Council, and not by the mayor. We do not believe that some charismatic celebrity\u2014or John Banks\u2014could come along to govern the city and be given that power, and that he or she would give all Aucklanders the confidence that the right thing would be done for them, fairly, across the whole of Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI come to the question of consultation. It was clearly set out in the National Party manifesto, yet 3 months in, this arrogant Government is already ignoring what it promised in its manifesto. I will quote, for the National members of Parliament\u2014particularly the Auckland members, because their constituents will hold them to account on this\u2014the National manifesto: \u201CWe will consult with Aucklanders once the findings of the royal commission are known.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ESo what do we hear from the Minister of Local Government? He said that the consultation has already happened and that there has been a royal commission where people had a chance to make submissions. Mr Hide can be forgiven for not wanting consultation because that is true to the ideology of his party. But what excuse do the National members have for reneging on a sincerely made promise that the people would be consulted? The manifesto did not say National would consult through a select committee\u2014there will be a select committee process\u2014but that it would consult people after the findings were known. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EEverybody in this House knows that in order for the consultation to be meaningful and genuine, it must happen before the key decisions are made. We heard from the Government yesterday that the key decisions have been made. They were made within a week of getting the royal commission report and they did not involve this Government consulting even the opinion leaders in Auckland, let alone the wider communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ENational wants a fundamental change in Auckland. Some of those changes are necessary, but the Government is not prepared to take the time to get it right. In fact, I do not believe that it wants to get it right, in terms of fair representation. The Government is not prepared to honour its promise to go back to the people across Auckland and say to them that this is their city, they need to be involved in the decisions about the restructuring of local government, and they will be given the opportunity to do so. This is a decision being rammed through undemocratically, without regard to the democratic outcomes that we would all seek. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe should look\u2014as the National Government should have looked\u2014at what the royal commission itself said, because it did examine the issue of whether there should be six local councils or 20. It said\u2014and I quote from the royal commission report, because obviously no National member has read it\u2014that \u201Csignificant change at the second-tier level to create a large number of community councils would have involved considerable costs and a significant and ongoing oversight role for the Auckland Council.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E Well, first of all, why has the Government not told us what this extra cost will be? There are projections within the royal commission report, but the Government has remained silent about this. It does say it will cost $240 million to restructure Auckland, and Aucklanders are being asked to pay that money\u2014$240 million. There should be no taxation without representation. The Government wants Aucklanders to accept this and pay for it, but it is not prepared to consult Aucklanders about the cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThen the commission concluded: \u201CThe creation of 20 entirely new entities with new territories would, for uncertain gains, impose high transitional costs on the ratepayers of Auckland and cause major disruption to existing staff and services.\u201D This conclusion was borne out by independent cost analysis. What part of that did the National Government, in ramming this through, not understand? It wants Aucklanders to put up $240 million, and it wants that sum to be increased because it has changed the rules of the game. What did the New Zealand Herald say about it today? It called the changes \u201Cstartling changes\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWhat National is doing is not bringing local democracy back into the system. It is making the unit so small that no power will be devolved. No meaningful decisions will be made at the community board level, and therefore there will not be participation by Aucklanders in what would be a farce if they thought they were doing things to influence the system. National is setting up a system where the majority on that council will be determined by \u201Cat large\u201D elections. \u201CAt large\u201D means that each of the eight councillors out of the 20 who will be elected will have a constituency of 850,000. That is 17 times larger than any of the electorates that electorate members represent. How can that be local government? How can people feel that they have access to their councillors when their councillors are responsible for 850,000 people? Who will benefit from a constituency as large as that? People will have to have the wealth and the resources if they are to put their information across an electorate of that size. This system is being designed to reward the business people and the wealthy people of the city, at the expense of the ordinary folk in the isthmus of west Auckland and South Auckland; make no mistake about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe Government has given no explanation of why a ward system is inappropriate and no explanation as to why we got it wrong in 1989 in requiring a ward system. A ward system has worked. The people in my electorate know who their ward representatives are. If they are in an electorate of 850,000, they might know the small number of people who will be ward councillors but they will not know the \u201Cat large\u201D councillors. The new system is biased against fair and balanced representation. It takes the \u201Clocal\u201D out of local government. The system that is put forward will, I think, have another agenda in this term or\u2014God forbid\u2014in another term, and that is the privatisation of the regional assets. That is what National wants to do. National members said that. They were not keen to admit it before the last election, but they said that about Auckland International Airport Ltd. They will do it to the ports. Mark my words\u2014this is part of the agenda of the National Government, if and when it thinks it can get away with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EFinally, I will talk about the issue of M\u0101ori representation. There is a debate to be had about that, but that debate has not even happened. What happened to the mana-enhancing power of the M\u0101ori Party when, without consultation with the M\u0101ori Party and without consultation with M\u0101ori people across Auckland, the royal commission\u2019s recommendations have been rejected? There was no talk, no discussion, no inquiry, and no respect. [Interruption] Wayne Mapp knows that. Wayne Mapp knows how people in Devonport feel about being swallowed up into a larger city without having an adequate level of local representation. Labour is after the reform of Auckland. We are after having sufficiently strong regional government to carry out the responsibilities at that level, but we are also determined that the \u201Clocal\u201D should be kept in local government, that the councils are meaningful, that they have the power and responsibility to ensure that people take them seriously, and that we have councillors who are accessible at that level. We are committed to having a system that ensures Auckland is not governed from the glass towers of Queen Street but by a representation that is fair across the whole city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d60697ffd57474c9a3905ee6b95920b\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a12041c43444a0abc05bfc3bd6918c2\u0022\u003EACC, Minister\u2014Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6b4fdb528d846fdbbf7154aca0987cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6b4fdb528d846fdbbf7154aca0987cb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E During the course of question time today the Hon Trevor Mallard made claims of a statement about the New Zealand Press Association that resulted in the Speaker ruling that I had to answer as Minister an additional question. I seek the leave of the House to table the actual New Zealand Press Association report that Mr Mallard deliberately misquoted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dab0ca4468d94bc3946a70af1a55e21b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for the tabling of a report. Members are familiar with the report. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022baf0e16d9f17434ca7c433d720852c58\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d9c8549674345cdaba7ed666a1854ab\u0022\u003ERoyal Commission on Auckland Governance\u2014Government Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000365\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d16cf2646a904560aeac3913f0ceb187\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d16cf2646a904560aeac3913f0ceb187\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E This debate is important because it is about the governance of Auckland for the next 50 to 100 years. I welcome the contribution that the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Phil Goff, made, and I look forward to working with him, other members of the Labour Party, and other parties to make sure that we do what is right for Auckland and for the wider country. The thing that drove us through this as a Government\u2014always, at every turn, and for every decision\u2014was what is best for Auckland, not just now, but for the next 50 to 100 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003ELet me go through this. The local boards are about democracy and local democracy. The Auckland Council is about good governance. In 2010, as a consequence of the decisions that this Government made, Aucklanders will get to vote in the most important local body election ever held in New Zealand. They can vote for a mayor with real power to make a difference. When have they been able to do that before? They can vote for councillors accountable to all of Auckland. When have they been able to do that before? They can vote for councillors from their local ward, and they can vote for local board representatives who, for the first time, will have the force of law behind their advocacy for their communities\u2014previous Governments never provided that. The elections in 2010 will be a celebration of democracy for Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EThese changes mean more democracy, better local representation, better accountability, and, most important, better governance. As the Prime Minister said yesterday, we have introduced \u201Ca simple and effective system for making regional decisions and implementing them smoothly.\u201D \u201COur plan will allow Auckland\u2019s civic leaders to think regionally, plan strategically and act decisively in a way that has not happened for the past six decades,\u201D. Our plan serves Auckland\u2019s many local diverse neighbourhoods and its diverse needs. We have decided on a framework that balances the need for elected representatives to be able to think strategically on behalf of the whole region, with the need for the local communities to have a strong voice on issues closer to home. The combination of the new Auckland Council and the local boards will lead to better connections across the region, better value from rates and central government funding, and community control of what matters in our neighbourhoods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EThe new system is much simpler and more coordinated, and will provide for community representation at grassroots level. Boards will let residents and ratepayers influence decision making, while the council can get on with the job of delivery of regional services. Each board will be named after its local community\u2014whether it is through the M\u0101ngere or Henderson board, the Pukekohe or Papakura board, the Waiheke or Devonport board, local communities need to be able to manage their issues locally and express their identities. We have gone further than the royal commission in promoting effective local representation. The Leader of the Opposition, Phil Goff, should actually talk to Devonport rather than just talk about it. I took a call last night from Mike Cohen, the leader of the Devonport Community Board. He is well known to the local MP, Dr Wayne Mapp, and he told me how pleased he was with this Government decision for local representation. That is what he had to say. I say to the Leader of the Opposition, Phil Goff, who says that we did not engage with local leaders in Auckland, that the royal commission, which his Government set up, spent nearly $4 million, travelled to Toronto, went to London, and hobnobbed around the world, but never went to Devonport. It never went to the North Shore. But the Minister of Local Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a88e8b274494e3e87404fd7d9831b2f\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Did he go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c65e98e308f2476d912e1fc30b5831f2\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: He went to Devonport and he talked to them. I have not seen anyone from the Labour Party do that. But the Minister of Local Government and the good member Dr Wayne Mapp talked to the people that Mr Phil Goff decided to introduce into this debate. I tell this to the Leader of the Opposition because it is clear that he has no way of finding out that the people of Auckland wanted one council, and that they wanted local representation. That is what this Government has provided. I have heard no plan from Labour\u2014none. We had 9 years of Judith Tizard. That is all Labour gave us for Auckland. The new boards offer a better solution than keeping the eight councils or the six local councils the royal commission wanted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EFor M\u0101ori, I say that Pita Sharples put his case forcefully and hard. On balance, the Government decided not to go with the three M\u0101ori seats. It was a tough call. M\u0101ori have a unique window to contribute and to involve themselves in the governance of Auckland, because in 2010 there will be 20 councillors elected to the Auckland Council. There will be a new mayor, and 20 to 30 local boards will be elected. I say to M\u0101ori that they should work to put up the good candidates because we know that the people of Auckland will vote for good candidates. I am sorry to see that Labour thinks that there are no good M\u0101ori who can stand and win a seat, or that the good people of Auckland do not vote people according to their merit and ability to represent their city. We are also working on how to properly engage the Auckland Council and the local boards with M\u0101ori, and I am pleased to say that Dr Pita Sharples has confirmed that he will continue to work with me to that end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EThe important thing is that we get a good result for Auckland, and that we manage the transition with some certainty and some certitude in the way we go about it, for the sake of the staff of the councils and for Auckland. We will be appointing an establishment board to do the transition work. Although I disagree with elements of what has been proposed, the local councils, the mayors, and the chief executives, whom I have kept in close touch with\u2014unlike Phil Goff\u2014have said that they will work and are committed to a steering group to help us with the transition and with the transition board. They have assured us that council services will continue throughout the process. Our plan will give greater efficiencies, less duplication and waste, and better outcomes for the region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EI heard a bit of talk earlier in this House at question time about the responsibilities of Ministers. Let me tell members what my responsibilities are. As Minister, they are to the people of Auckland: to listen to the advice, to make decisions and seek the support of my ministerial colleagues, and to take action. The advice has been given and it has been listened to. The decisions have been made and are supported by the Government. Now is the time to act. That is what the people of Auckland will see between now and the election in 2010\u2014an action to make Auckland, which is a great city, even greater. What we have to strive for each and every day is to make Auckland the greatest city that it can be through the good governance that we can now provide, and to do the same for our country. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u002214651bec893e443abac4aa801a5cae55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214651bec893e443abac4aa801a5cae55\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is gravely concerned that if the Government and the Minister of Local Government continue to bulldoze ahead with these sweeping, far-reaching proposals, Aucklanders will wake up in about 2 or 3 years\u2019 time and discover that they have been conned. They will wake up to discover that democracy in the Auckland region has been significantly shrunk. They will wake up to discover that they have inherited a huge, bloated, remote, inaccessible super-bureaucracy\u2014a super-council\u2014a council run by a tiny inner cabal. It will be run probably by two men\u2014and I fear that it will be men. It will be a mayor with an incredible concentration of powers, a sort of tsar of Auckland, and a chief executive, again with huge and sweeping powers. All of this concentration of power, they will find, will be counterbalanced only by 30 local councils that are little more than impotent talkfests. I predict that if this goes ahead the people who are elected to those 30 local boards will find themselves utterly frustrated. They will be wringing their hands in frustration, because they will have all of the expectations of their local communities, yet they will be utterly impotent, utterly powerless, to promote the interests of those local communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe question we must ask is, why the unseemly haste? We ask why there is this unseemly haste to rush through the implementation of the royal commission\u2019s proposals, which are sweeping, far-reaching proposals. They will change the future shape of democracy in New Zealand, and, indeed, all around New Zealand, because, let us make no mistake, the Government, having foisted this on Auckland, will intend to do the same around the rest of New Zealand. We ask why we are racing it through without allowing for local communities to have some consultation on these far-reaching changes. So far there has been a complete lack of community consultation since the recommendations were made. Community boards all over Auckland are clamouring and asking to please give them a pause to allow the time for them to understand the commission\u2019s recommendations and to understand how they will impact on the everyday lives of their communities. They are pleading with the Government, so why the unseemly race? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWe ask why we are not doing what National before the election promised solemnly to do. National members said that they would consult with Aucklanders, once the findings of the royal commission were known. They did not say that they might consult; they did not say that it was a possibility\u2014they made a solemn promise to Aucklanders, and indeed to New Zealanders, that National would consult with Aucklanders once the findings of the commission were known. We call upon the National Government and the Minister of Local Government to make good on that promise and to allow Aucklanders to be consulted on these far-reaching proposals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWe are deeply concerned and alarmed at the extraordinary concentration of power in the offices of the mayor and the chief executive. The mayor will basically be able to propose the super-city budget, formulate all major policy, appoint the deputy mayor, and appoint all council chairpersons of committees. I have been on a city council, the Wellington City Council, for 9 years and I can tell members that once the mayor selects his inner cabal\u2014and it looks, unfortunately, as though it will be a \u201Chis\u201D rather than a \u201Cher\u201D\u2014and sets the budget, all of the strategic directions, and all of the long-term plans, he will have total concentrated power over the future direction of Auckland. Aucklanders should not be duped or deceived on that point. They should be aware of the huge and unprecedented concentration of power that this move represents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EOther speakers have asked how councillors who are elected at large could possibly be able to be accountable to their 1.4 million electors. How will they be able to be accountable to them? I do not believe that they will be able to be directly accountable to as many people as that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThat brings us to the issue of the local boards. It is extraordinary that under the proposals the Government has completely wiped out six city councils in Auckland and all of the democracy they represent. The Government is proposing to wipe out very effective local councils. The Waitakere City Council is strongly supported by its community. The Manukau City Council is strongly supported by that city. Those councils will be simply wiped out with one fell swoop and replaced instead with those 30 local boards. They number no more than the existing community boards, but they will be effectively devoid of powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWhat powers will those local boards have? They will have no budgets and no powers of implementation. They will not be able to hire staff, raise their own revenue, or set rates. They will not even be able to offer service delivery. They will not even have the ability to implement their own plans, although there is some mention that they may be allowed to develop policies over dog control, liquor licensing, and graffiti control. We were also told in the briefing yesterday that the people\u2014I do not even know whether they will be called councillors\u2014who will be on these local boards will be paid about the same as members of local community boards. That is the princely sum of about $12,000 a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228794c2cb0632434a8d5ac1dd234f9ef0\u0022\u003EHon John Carter\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not about money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcb1a804e7f74a628d62e5729c13bb0a\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I ask how local boards will be adequately represented by local board members, councillors, or whatever they will be called, who are paid $12,000 a year and who will be able to perhaps meet only every now and then, and probably often at night. What this move represents is a forced amalgamation. Why are we doing all of this? We are not doing it to save money. No one is even pretending that this will save money, and we know that it will not. We know that in all of the forced amalgamations around the world, virtually nothing has been saved, and we know that people always underestimate the costs of the implementation of the new council. So why are we doing it? Essentially we are doing it because we will have this super-council with one voice. The Green Party agrees that Auckland needs one voice, and we agree that there needs to be one integrated transport plan. But we do not agree with the mechanism that the Government has come up with to implement this, which involves an incredible concentration of power\u2014probably a greater concentration of power than could be found in any local council around the world. We are also deeply concerned about the sweeping elimination of the three M\u0101ori seats, which the royal commission had proposed. The Government has given no good reason why it has wiped out those three M\u0101ori seats\u2014no good reason at all. In fact, the Government has given no good reason for much of what it has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the Green Party is calling on Aucklanders to be aware that they are being conned, and that they will wake up to find themselves with their democracy shrunk, an incredible concentration of power, and impotent local boards. Aucklanders must be aware of that. The Green Party calls on Aucklanders to rise up and demand, as we are doing, that this process be slowed down, that there is what the Government promised\u2014consultation with Aucklanders\u2014so that Aucklanders can understand the far-reaching implications of these proposals, so that the Government does not just ram and bulldoze these proposals through. There should be no unseemly haste. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EFinally, I say that in overseas countries\u2014in England and America\u2014they are going in exactly the opposite direction. Those countries have worked out that the key is in empowering grassroots local democracy, not creating large super-cities or carrying out forced amalgamations. The whole trend is towards local, empowered communities. Sure, there are 30 community boards, but these boards are not empowered\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022827a77e6a8434d92bc4163c2d73fd582\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I regret to advise the member that her time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d163d2fd7d124463ad38425eb46b6538\u0022\u003ERoyal Commission on Auckland Governance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00220638c0a13a384f8ea82fb3778e28ae92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220638c0a13a384f8ea82fb3778e28ae92\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER (Associate Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E The urgent debate on the Government\u2019s response to the  is a very important debate in this House; indeed, it is not likely that we will debate as big an issue over the first term of this Government. I acknowledge the contribution the Prime Minister has made to this issue, and congratulate him on the leadership he has shown this Parliament, Auckland, and this nation. I also congratulate Rodney Hide on the work and the leadership he has shown, because, in the very short time that this Parliament and this Government have had this report, the response has been extraordinary. I also compliment the staff who have been involved in the Government\u2019s response. They have done an outstanding job, and they deserve to be complimented on the work and the effort they have put in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe one neat thing about the result the Government has delivered is that it brings clarity to the governance of Auckland. One of the problems that Auckland has\u2014and all members in this House would concede\u2014is that, at the moment, it is just a mess. There are 21 authorities looking after roading, and regional issues that cannot be decided because there is so much disagreement amongst the councils. It goes on and on. All New Zealanders\u2014not just Aucklanders\u2014pay for the fact that there is no way of making decisions around Auckland. The Government has gone up and put into unitary authority the ability for an authority to make regional decisions, and we have gone down to the local communities to ensure that there is local democracy, at the local level, by having enhanced local boards. That is so important. We will end up with the ability for the unitary authorities to think regionally, plan strategically, and act decisively. That is something that has been missing in Auckland for years and years. Even more, we will end up with less bureaucracy and more democracy. Who can argue against less bureaucracy and more democracy? Surely to goodness everybody in this House, I assume, stands for democracy. There may be some members who do not, and maybe they will take a call and suggest they do not, and that is fine. I am proud of the Government\u2019s response, and I am proud to have been involved with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EIf there is one disappointment in this whole issue, it is the slowness with which the Opposition responded to the Government\u2019s response. It took Opposition members 3 hours and 2 minutes to come out with any statement at all, and then, unfortunately, they got it wrong. Members should look at one or two of the things that the Leader of the Opposition, whose name escapes me at the moment, said in his statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ced0c1f9a334a85a191d561f7140f56\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: The guy who\u2019s \u201CPhil-ing\u201D in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f47d48e9064ca5984d6c3440f18268\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is right. He said: \u201CThe Government is ramming through without consultation decisions\u201D\u2014it actually does not even read right\u2014\u201Con Auckland governance that will result in a huge centralisation of power in the new Auckland SuperCity,\u201D. Actually, the royal commission received 3,500 written submissions and heard over 500 oral submissions, yet the Leader of the Opposition says that there was no consultation. He also says: \u201CThe Government\u2019s decisions completely remove the local from local government. Most Aucklanders will feel they have less access to their decision-makers. The boards which replace the local councils will have limited real power and therefore relevance.\u201D What a lot of nonsense! The fact is that we have enhanced local boards that will represent local communities. You know, local people want to have a say in things like their halls. These people want to know where their bike stands are going to be. They want to talk about which park they can allow people to walk their dogs on or not, and about where their swimming pools might be. All those sorts of things matter to local communities. Those things are important to the communities. They are now going to have their say. The Local Government Commission will consult with Auckland, as the Government said it would, and make sure that the views are heard on where the local boundaries should be. There will be local consultation, and we will end up with better local democracy than ever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EMembers on the other side of the Chamber ask about the powers. Well, unlike the previous legislation\u2014where the local authorities had the ability to delegate or not, or to say there could be community councils or not\u2014it will be mandatory to have local boards as we pass legislation, and those boards will be given the opportunity to represent their communities. That is something that the Opposition just cannot seize on, and that the Green Party does not understand. Actually, we are enhancing local democracy. This Government thinks local democracy is important. We think that putting the \u201Clocal\u201D back into local government is absolutely essential, and that is exactly what we are doing. We are relieving Auckland of the tedious mess, and of the lines of candles that it had. We are allowing Aucklanders to get on and make decisions at the level that they should be made\u2014decisions on roading, the ports, and the airports. We will have one authority that will allow them to make decisive decisions, and to get on with things and make them happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EIt is good for Auckland and good for all of New Zealand. It is estimated that every New Zealander pays today, on average, $10 a week because of the congestion in Auckland. We want to relieve New Zealanders of that burden. We want to make sure that we all stop paying for waste. We want efficiency of delivery, yet Mr Goff goes out there and says that we do not have it right. He says we are not putting the \u201Clocal\u201D back into local government. Well, I ask Mr Goff to think again. We will have somewhere between 20 and 30 enhanced local boards with powers that allow them to represent their local communities. What could be better than that? Mr Goff said: \u201CThe Government promised to strengthen local representation. Instead they have done the opposite, centralising all real power in one Auckland-wide council.\u201D Goodness gracious me! Here he is saying that we need to have regional representation and that we need to be able to make decisions on a regional basis. So what did we do? We set up the unitary authority in the way that that the royal commission said we should. We did exactly what it asked in that regard, yet here is Mr Goff criticising it and saying we are going to make it an all-encompassing unitary authority. That is exactly what we wanted to do\u2014what the royal commission did. After all, it was the Opposition members over there who actually made this happen. He goes on to say: \u201CThey actually changed the commission\u2019s recommendations without any consultation. Aucklanders will have no opportunity to have their voices heard.\u201D What a lot of nonsense. Mr Goff should\u2014but obviously does not\u2014understand that as we go through changing the boundaries, as we go through putting the ward boundaries in place, and as we go around putting the local enhanced local boards in place, there will be consultation. There will be continuous consultation; the Local Government Commission is charged with consulting the people. It has to do that, as it is part of its responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI have to say that this, as a response from a Government in just under 14 days, was a fantastic result. Everybody who was involved in it\u2014and that is all of us\u2014can take a bow. We have done a fantastic job. We are going to untangle Auckland, we are going to relieve Aucklanders of congestion, we are going to reduce costs, we are going to get rid of inefficiency, we are going to have efficiency of delivery, and we are going to make sure there is value for money. With this system, the ratepayers will know that they are getting back value for the dollars they are paying\u2014something they have not had for years and years. I am proud of the Government, proud to be working alongside Rodney Hide, and proud of the coalition Government that is going to deliver something that is good for Aucklanders and good for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd8ca785663b4d179c214678fcd34c28\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker I just say to the House that the general hubbub in here is rising and rising. I ask members to talk quietly and those in the gallery to talk quietly as well. If you want to talk, please talk quietly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb7efafd33a845bbb2abf9d83cae301b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb7efafd33a845bbb2abf9d83cae301b\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E The concept of representation is a vital issue in all aspects of our society. Representation is about having a voice and being respected for having unique points of view. It is about having legitimacy; it is at the very heart of democracy. Representation is an important theme in our youth culture\u2014to represent oneself in a way that makes the community proud and to demonstrate responsibility. At the levels of our local and national government we also expect that there would be freedom of expression and the capacity for all members to contribute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EParticipation in the decision-making procedures of local authorities is important for the representativeness and legitimacy of local government. But for tangata whenua, for Aotearoa, for a nation that is bound by the commitment to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, representation takes on an even more solemn responsibility. Representation is, as provided for in the Treaty, the means by which tangata whenua have an equitable say in the decisions that affect them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EBut there is something terribly wrong with this picture. In a 2007 post-election survey of local government, only 3.6 percent of people elected to councils identified themselves as M\u0101ori, with a further 1.2 percent identifying themselves as European M\u0101ori. This percentage has been relatively static for at least the last three elections, despite the fact that at the 2006 census M\u0101ori were 14.6 percent of the population. This is what we know the current picture of representation to be in this day and at this time. It is not a free market, where all players have an equal choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EIt is not just that we know the numbers; we have the percentage points in hand. We are in a better position than that. Eighteen months ago the report M\u0101ori engagement with local government: knowledge, experiences, and recommendations, by Dr Christine Cheyne and Veronica T\u0101whai, told us everything we needed to know about how to improve M\u0101ori responsiveness to local government. It told us how local government bodies could improve their representation and improve upon their engagement with their citizens. Overwhelmingly, the view from M\u0101ori was resounding. M\u0101ori desire local authorities that are connected, responsive, and accountable to M\u0101ori communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003ESo how did the royal commission respond to this advice? It recommended that all local councils be given M\u0101ori names determined by the Local Government Commission after consultation with mana whenua, with the new M\u0101ori names used by the commission being suggested starting points for consideration. It recommended that the Auckland City Council should comprise 23 councillors, with two councillors elected at large by voters on the M\u0101ori electoral roll and one councillor appointed by the Mana Whenua Forum. These were honest attempts, genuine attempts, to do what we must do\u2014to represent. Government has a responsibility to act urgently to address the chronic under-representation of M\u0101ori at local government level. This solution was not perfect, but it was a positive approach that would provide for political power sharing, because M\u0101ori would be placed directly into a decision-making role on council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI want to say in no uncertain terms that M\u0101ori seats deliver accountability by M\u0101ori to M\u0101ori. Putting it simply, a candidate who is elected from a M\u0101ori constituency is more likely to represent the views of M\u0101ori voters. We know, as Professor Ann Sullivan has concluded, that at the local government level M\u0101ori are unfairly, inequitably, and disproportionately under-represented on elected councils. That is indisputable. So, with all due respect, the Minister calling this moment in time \u201Ca unique window of opportunity\u201D is, at best, sadly naive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s decision to scrap the M\u0101ori seats and to fail to act in this vital area of representation will not create opportunities for M\u0101ori. Let me repeat: M\u0101ori are unfairly, inequitably, and disproportionately under-represented on elected councils. Auckland has the largest M\u0101ori population in the world, which is drawn from tribes from all over the country, and their culture must be expressed in civic affairs. One in four M\u0101ori live in Auckland, and how are we acknowledging that? How does the decision to scrap legitimate, distinctive M\u0101ori representation honour our commitment to mana whenua\u2014the people who nurture the city of T\u0101maki into its growth over the centuries? M\u0101ori are already at a disadvantage in local elections, and the bigger the region the higher the political and financial hurdles before them. How do we acknowledge that? The Government has rejected the very mechanism that the royal commission concluded would help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe know, of course, that the Local Government Act 2002 has a legislative obligation to \u201Cestablish and maintain processes to provide for opportunities for M\u0101ori to contribute to the decision-making processes of the local authority.\u201D Yet the reality is that M\u0101ori representation is always a matter of under-representation, or representation that takes place after the event. We had a chance to do something about that. We had a unique window of opportunity, and that window has been firmly shut with the decision to reject the recommendations of the commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe want to see local government and regional authorities working with mana whenua, establishing effective strategies for engaging M\u0101ori communities, and advancing M\u0101ori representation. M\u0101ori do not want to be relegated to forums that present as cultural window dressing; they want to be firmly at the table. Comments made by iwi leaders such at Tukuroirangi Morgan and Grant Hawke have been to the extent that they want to be recognised as power brokers and decision makers at the same table as other community leaders. And why not? We need local authorities to place priority on joint partnerships with iwi, in order to enhance M\u0101ori representation. We want to see in T\u0101maki-makau-rau a model of representation that actually engages and reflects the people of its constituency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is extremely disappointed by this move. We have received an invitation to meet with local iwi next Wednesday at Or\u0101kei Marae, and I believe this will be a vital hui to see a way forward. Representation is an issue that is far too important to get wrong. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcc7126c55504b43bee7ac27d0cb653e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcc7126c55504b43bee7ac27d0cb653e\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Representing 33 percent of Aotearoa\u2019s population, 33 percent of our tax revenue, and 33 percent of our GDP, the powerhouse of Auckland includes multiple ethnicities, the largest Polynesian population, and the largest gathering of M\u0101ori. The document I have here, Making Auckland Greater, is the blueprint for that seething body of creativity and humanity. It is a blueprint. There is no brown, definitely no red, and no green; just blue and white. Auckland, welcome to your future! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOur friends from the M\u0101ori Party are lamenting the fact that they did not get any M\u0101ori seats in this deal. They have a chance. If they continue to vote for the supply and confidence agreement they will implement this system into power. But they have revealed their impotence, signed up to the Government, and are now quarrelling and crying. They do not have anywhere to go. If one lies down with a big beast, one wakes up with an itch. I say to the M\u0101ori Party \u201CKoia t\u0113n\u0101 t\u014D utu.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWith such a huge number of people, such a large body of our economy, one cannot agree with the rationalisation of functions for that region without positing it upon the legitimacy of participation. This document shows that there will be no meaningful participation unless one is blue or white in Auckland. There will be no opportunity for the large, growing young families in South Auckland to influence the Paratai Drive corporate wealth, along with the people who are so keen to privatise the local government assets of Auckland. That is those families\u2019 future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Local Government, Rodney Hide, has an idea that he will create 20, 30, or 40 small boards. He is yet to tell us what those boards will do and what they will deal with\u2014dogs, brothels, or cemeteries\u2014and I wonder where he will find his best friend. Those small boards will be toothless, underfunded, and reduced to supplication when going to the powerful centre, which will be accountable to characters at large. Animals at large are accountable to no one. Without a ward system, the only way that the contents of this document will have any legitimacy is to get rid of the proposed councillors at large for an area that will cover 1.3 million people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EMr John Carter, the handmaiden of Mr Hide, is suggesting that he will cut off the bookends. He will give Wellsford back to the north, and parts of Franklin back to Tainui. That, however, will not change the essential iniquity and unfairness of this system. This system is designed to disempower the young families and the working families of Auckland. There will be no power in the west, east, north, or south; it will all reside at the centre. Irrespective of how powerful the arguments are for water, utilities, and transportation, unless it rests on the informed consent of the people and they have an opportunity to choose genuine members from their communities, we are yielding to corporate powers the legitimacy that ought to be belong in the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI say to the M\u0101ori Party \u201CHaere ra!\u201D. M\u0101ori Party members should explain to their supporters that once the M\u0101ori Party stepped up to the plate and agreed to a confidence and supply agreement, irrespective of how much its members moan, they are maintaining the power base that is doing their own people damage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a573c070f4a84a718c210af1acb72a58\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that party\u2019s policy? The same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d71210c0768049318969a8017824cafa\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, Georgina te Heuheu was actually in Cabinet when this decision was made, unlike Dr Pita Sharples. We are told that she never spoke one word in support of M\u0101ori voters or M\u0101ori ratepayers. She did not speak one word. Georgina te Heuheu dutifully delivered a letter\u2014written bilingually, no doubt\u2014by Dr Sharples to the Prime Minister. That is something akin to a primary school teacher delivering a letter to the headmaster. She never said one word. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ERationalisation of functions for Auckland is positive, but without its being posited, located, and founded on participation and democratic principles, it will always fall short. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u00222a9d70c11f904ebda1ea0c9134c03779\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a9d70c11f904ebda1ea0c9134c03779\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Auckland, the City of Sails, is home of the JAFA and is New Zealand\u2019s biggest city, the one that those of us who live below the Bombay Hills love to hate. Auckland has to change. The royal commission\u2019s report states that Auckland, just like an inattentive, disruptive schoolkid, can do better. For Auckland to get better results it needs to be consistent, to focus on its core business, and to work constructively with others. Over the past few years the people of Auckland have become increasingly frustrated by the dysfunctional local government and layers of expensive bureaucracy. The royal commission acknowledges that situation and has made a compelling argument for change. Its conclusions came after 20 months of work, 3,500 submissions, and 550 oral presentations over 27 days of hearings. It says it all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWe all knew that Auckland\u2019s governance was not working. We knew that the public felt that the rates were out of control, and the commission report proved it. It pulls no punches. It states: \u201CAuckland\u2019s regional council and seven territorial authorities lack the collective sense of purpose, constitutional ability, and momentum to address issues effectively for the overall good of Auckland.\u201D It lists a series of serious deficiencies. It states: \u201CDisputes are regular among councils \u2026 Councils cannot agree on, or apply, consistent standards and plans. Sharing of services among councils is limited, yet there is scope for so much more activity in this area. The end result is delayed and sometimes suboptimal decisions for the region \u2026 Citizens and businesses get poorer services than they hope for, at a higher cost than necessary.\u201D So we see that not only the present arrangement is not working but the councils actually make life difficult for the people of Auckland. They fight among themselves. Their standards and plans across the city contradict each other\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272ea86c085494dcd92971224693638f2\u0022\u003EHon George Hawkins\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish! Who wrote this rubbish?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022359aad2fabbd43679fe89f2cd129bc86\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Hawkins may say this is rubbish but the royal commission has heard submissions. It is a lose-lose situation and not just for the people of Auckland. As our largest city and the gateway to the rest of the country, what happens in Auckland affects us all. As the royal commission says: \u201CAuckland can and should contribute more to national prosperity and productivity than it does now.\u201D In a world that is facing unprecedented economic crisis, and as we look towards a long-term brighter future for the whole of New Zealand, Auckland\u2019s contribution to prosperity and productivity is essential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ELocal government is a strange thing. Most people are not vaguely interested in the councils and their work. One just needs to note the low level of voting in the local government elections. Most people do not want to think about local government, but they want local government\u2019s functions to function on auto and to work efficiently and effectively so that they hardly even notice them. There is no political debate about this issue. We need good, central, efficient, and effective services and good local democracy through 20 to 30 local boards. These local boards will have teeth. Contrary to what others have said, they will have teeth. Their roles will be mandated in legislation so that the Auckland Regional Council cannot freeze them out. This is a good answer for Auckland. It will deliver for the people of Auckland and it will deliver productivity and prosperity for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00222e662cd512974bb19e370011ebe642c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e662cd512974bb19e370011ebe642c5\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I stand as an MP from Auckland to contribute to this debate. Well, the National Government certainly knows how to stuff up a good idea. We have an opportunity to turn a page on Auckland\u2019s history of troubled governance and poor leadership. It is a chance to set up our city for the future, so that it can make the big decisions and finally start to reach its potential and be the powerhouse that Auckland needs to be. What does the National Government do? It cherry-picks the bits that it likes out of a report that was a year in the making, a report that sets out a comprehensive, visionary blueprint for Auckland\u2019s future\u2014a blueprint for strong government of our greatest city. The report of the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance speaks to issues of leadership, democracy, how strategic assets will be owned and governed, urban design, social inequalities, regional economic development, and our priceless waterfront. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EBut what does this National Government see? It sees only the centralisation of power. That is the stuff it cares about. Power\u2014that is the thing National members are interested in. They are ramming through a centralisation of power that will gerrymander them and their mates on to the Auckland council for years to come. It will leave dozens of communities unrepresented or under-represented. It will kill off the \u201Clocal\u201D in local government, and push all the real power and responsibility up to the super-city, while leaving local democracy to a bunch of glorified community boards\u2014talk shops with responsibility for booze, dogs, and graffiti. It will concentrate power in the hands of a few people, with an executive mayor and no checks and balances. We could call this a stuff-up, or we could call it a traditional National Government power grab for its mates and cronies. Worse still, the National Government is preparing to railroad these changes through without consulting the people of Auckland, in breach of its campaign promises. The promise sounded pretty good a few months ago, but it clearly has no place in the National Government now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to make it clear to this House that there is much that is good, thoughtful, and wise in this royal commission report. I hope that in the coming days and weeks we will have a chance to debate those things. But now we focus on the electoral rules, the rules of the game that determine who gets what, who gets a say, and who runs the place. The Labour Party believes that the royal commission did not get everything right. We disagree with it the most on the proposals for the way that councillors are elected to the Auckland council. Strike one against democracy is that only the rich and famous will need to apply. Who will be able to fund a campaign that reaches out to 850,000 voters? Only the rich, and those backed by the rich, so I say we should stand by and wait for government by TV hosts and retired Olympians. Strike two against democracy is that it is entirely possible that all the eight places elected at large will come from one part of town. In the old days before the ward system, central and eastern Auckland were well served, and the west and the south got the scraps. Strike three against democracy is that the other 12 councillors are, according to the Government\u2019s proposals, to be elected on the basis of wards with an average of 70,000 voters. Many communities will inevitably miss out, and will go unrepresented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThese proposals amount to a giant gerrymander. Democracy is not just about winning majorities; it is also about ensuring that everyone has a say. The Government\u2019s plan will be great for those in the leafy suburbs and glass towers, but what about the people of Avondale, Beach Haven, R\u0101nui, \u014Ctara, and Manurewa? National\u2019s plans for the second tier of government are a disaster. The royal commission and thousands of submitters recognised that there needs to be a balance between centralising governance and protecting local democracy. We in the Labour Party are not sure the royal commission got the second tier entirely right, and we wonder whether, in fact, the six councils could get close enough to local communities, and whether, at the same time, they have enough powers to exercise a meaningful role in the development of our city. This is delicate stuff; the detail is what is important. What does the National Government do? It drives a bulldozer through the carefully researched and argued recommendations of the royal commission. It plants an axe through local councils, and replaces them with 20 to 30 community boards that are basically talking shops. What will they be good for? They will be good only for having a chat. They will not raise revenue, provide services, or hire staff. They will be good only for dogs, liquor, and graffiti. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis is a coup against democracy. All significant decision-making, planning, and power in the sphere of local government for one-third of our nation\u2019s citizens will be in the hands of 21 elected officials. Those 21 individuals will be elected on the basis of a gerrymandered system. Local democracy and local government are being gutted. Councils like Waitakere City Council and Manukau City Council have demonstrated over the last two decades just how efficient and effective local councils can be in promoting economic development, nurturing a sense of identity and belonging, and melding distinctive and diverse communities behind a common vision and a sense of place. The royal commission recognised these achievements, and sought to retain a second tier of government that would preserve councils and push upstairs the functions of planning and infrastructure, but maintain local councils with the structures and the capacity to make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ELet me take the New Lynn urban development project, transforming public transport and providing for a residential and commercial mixed-use, mixed-income development. Will a smattering of local community boards have the capacity to do anything like that? No. Will a super-city council with one or two elected councillors from the west have the political will to do anything like that? It will not. Let me take Manukau City Council\u2019s role in championing the identity and aspirations of our most diverse, young, and Polynesian of cities. Will a smattering of local talk shops have the ability to do anything on that scale? Will a super-city with only one or two councillors from the south have any political will to tackle that project? The answer is no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe National Government\u2019s instinct to sell out local democracy, as it concentrates power in the hands of grey-suited men in glass towers and the Victoria Avenue set, will deliver the worst of both worlds. There will be a huge accumulation of power at the top level of governance, and a complete imbalance at the bottom, where local democracy will be reduced to a cacophony of talk shops. The Labour Party supports a unitary authority for the region. We support the idea of having one rates bill, one plan, the public ownership of strategic assets, an expanded mandate for social issues, and integrated organisations for water and transport. But let us be clear about this: the electoral governance rules set the goalposts for politics. Politics is about who gets what. The National Government\u2019s proposals amount to a power grab, and to a coup against democracy. They are unfair and, if they are pursued, they threaten to undermine the legitimacy of the entire reform package. The consequences for Auckland, for future generations, and for democracy are dire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222bb1ac3544874478a7fcf959e40cf47e\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022667a97e5fe0c40138dbbcd601a1221e0\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori King\u2014Te Arikinui Tuheitia\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf28195cd5274fc6af2ea31a7a647cf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf28195cd5274fc6af2ea31a7a647cf7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Honourable members, I interrupt this debate in accordance with a determination of the Business Committee for the Rt Hon Helen Clark to shortly make her valedictory statement. But first I have much pleasure in informing members that K\u012Bngi Tuheitia is within the precincts of this Chamber, and I am sure members would wish that he be welcomed and accorded a seat on the left of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EK\u012Bngi Tuheitia entered the Chamber and took a seat on the left of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ceba62aca0f64eea97334e069fd3189d\u0022\u003EValedictory Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022540c7e23799f4eb58f3243a0b25cfb5b\u0022\u003EValedictory Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e78d5ab84c314ccab9789de699d952ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e78d5ab84c314ccab9789de699d952ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E E K\u012Bngi Tuheitia, Te Ariki Tumu, e ng\u0101 iwi o te motu, e rau rangatira m\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. This speech is obviously my last in this Parliament, and it is an occasion that I view with mixed emotions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EBeing a member of the New Zealand Parliament has been a very big part of my adult life, and my involvement in New Zealand politics, more broadly, predates my election as MP for Mt Albert in 1981. It was in 1968, fresh from Epsom Girls Grammar School, that I enrolled at Auckland University to study history, English, German, and yes, political studies, because I met an older student who said: \u201CThat is pretty interesting.\u201D Therein lies a tale. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EWhat a year 1968 was, though, for students around the world, with unrest spreading across the campuses of many a country as the postwar baby-boomer generation came of age. Here in New Zealand, those of us who were politically, and perhaps radically, minded, were not short of causes to get involved in\u2014opposition to the Viet Nam War, to contact with apartheid sport, and to French nuclear-testing in the Pacific. All of these issues sent fault lines through New Zealand politics, some ideological and some generational. But I believe that the great strength of the late Norman Kirk as Labour leader was that he reached across that generation gap to speak for us as young people on those issues, and also to articulate an independent foreign policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EIn my childhood and teenage years, a television set was not a feature of every home. That meant that politicians were generally rather remote figures, whose voices were only occasionally to be heard on one of the handful\u2014and I think there were four\u2014of Government radio stations. This was, of course, before Radio Hauraki broke the monopoly by broadcasting from a boat in the Hauraki Gulf. I do remember Sir Ronald Algie MP coming to my secondary school for prize-givings. I certainly recall a meeting, an election meeting of some kind in the Te Pahu community hall, which I attended with my father, when I had the temerity to ask the local member, Sir Leslie Munro, a question about the wisdom of deploying New Zealand troops to Viet Nam\u2014and I recall being barked at on that occasion. But other exposure to politicians was non-existent in my earlier life. So in recent years when children have asked me on innumerable school visits whether I wanted to be Prime Minister when I was their age, I could only reply that I could not remotely have imagined that being possible, as the politicians of my childhood and youth were almost invariably rather elderly gentlemen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThose perceptions, though, changed for me during my student days, and upon joining the Labour Party, as I did in 1971. There was a new generation coming into Parliament for Labour, beginning with the election of Jonathan Hunt in 1966. Outside Parliament there was the extraordinary energy of Jim Anderton in Labour\u2019s Auckland local body campaigns, and later as Labour Party president. As well, there was the growing stature of Norman Kirk as a dynamic leader of the Labour Party and Leader of the Opposition. I was proud to be a mere foot soldier in the campaign that saw him lead Labour into Government in 1972. But then the third Labour Government suffered very greatly from Norman Kirk\u2019s untimely death and major economic shocks, leading to its defeat after only 3 years. So it was back to the politics of Opposition for 9 years, in the course of which I myself entered Parliament as the MP for Mt Albert. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EAs many are well aware, I grew up on a farm in the western Waikato, and I did not prima facie have a background of the kind associated with Labour leaders in the past. But my wider family, like many, had a great range of political allegiances. Politics was definitely of very great interest to us, and not something just to be engaged in via a vote on election day. We were participators and doers. My parents were perhaps initially a little surprised at the direction my politics took, but, within a relatively short period of time, they extended their always strong personal support for me to strong political support. That continues to this day, with my father, who is 87, being present in the gallery, and my mother, who is not well enough to travel, being able, I hope, to watch the proceedings on television this afternoon, along with my sister Jenefer, who is caring for her. Words cannot adequately express my gratitude to my parents for the love and support they have always given me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EMy first general election campaign as a Labour candidate was in 1975, in Piako. It was one of National\u2019s safest seats. It was held by gentleman Jack Luxton, and later by his son John. I must say my experience throughout the campaign was that Jack was indeed a gentleman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E But what a great learning experience that was for me, moving around the small towns of the east and south Waikato, drawing support in particular from workers and their families on the Kaimai tunnel project, in the dairy and timber factories, and in the Arapuni hydro village. I well remember a campaign visit in my support by Sir Basil Arthur, who was the Minister of Transport. He came to the Kaimai tunnel, but the superstition of the Irish and Italian tunnellers meant that I, as the candidate, was left at the tunnel head. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe highlight of my campaign in Piako was the visit of the late Bill Rowling, who put P\u016Bt\u0101ruru on his whistle-stop tour of the Waikato. The hall we hired was full to overflowing, with a morning tea held in his honour. I know that Glen Rowling is here today. I do not remember in the last 34 years, Glen, whether you were also present in P\u016Bt\u0101ruru, but I have never forgotten the excitement of that occasion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EMy advice to young people starting out in politics is to be prepared to run for their party for the first time in electorates that are highly unlikely to be won, but where one will learn a lot and have more to offer when a winnable seat opportunity comes along. In my experience, success is seldom instant in politics, and where it does come quickly it can equally as quickly fizzle out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe Parliament I entered in 1981 was far less diverse, obviously, than that which we see today. That year, 1981, the number of women elected to Parliament doubled from four to eight, and there were only six M\u0101ori members of Parliament. I recall Sir Robert Muldoon, at the end of his lengthy career, saying that one of the greatest changes had been the extraordinary increase in the number of women in the House and that he found us rather frightening. I have to say that the boot really was on the other foot, and to have interjected on Sir Robert was to invite demolition, which I was never foolish enough to do, of course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe main forms of recreation when I first came were the billiard-room in what is now the Grand Hall\u2014thank goodness it has been banished to a corner of the building, and I have no idea where it is\u2014the Bellamy\u2019s bar, ever with us, and the card schools in members\u2019 offices, where I understand rather large sums of money were wagered for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E To say that this was an alien environment for a 31-year-old woman fresh from a university teaching environment would be an understatement. It was, frankly, very hard going, as a lot of my political career has been, but it was, of course, character forming and it gave me the experience and the confidence to go all the way in the system and, importantly, to be part of changing it for the better for ever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EBut saying that Parliament was hard going and an alien environment brings one to the issue of motivation. What exactly was it that attracted me to this life? I think what brought me here was idealism, values, a sense of community and of internationalism, a desire to make a contribution to public life in my country, and, overwhelmingly, a sense of gratitude for the opportunities that New Zealand offered me, and which I think should be the birthright of every New Zealander. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI have always been very proud of New Zealand\u2019s egalitarian traditions. Deep in our country\u2019s roots is the ethos that Jack is as good as his master, and these days we must say that Jill is as good as her mistress. Many of our forebears came to this land to escape the class-bound nature of Britain, where their place in the economic and social order was largely prescribed from birth and could not be escaped from. I deeply detest social distinction and snobbery, and in that has always lain my strong aversion to titular honours, because to me they relate to another era that our nation largely has evolved from but obviously not entirely freed itself from at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EEntering Parliament was for me a way of translating ideals into positive action\u2014hard as that can sometimes be. There have been many issues over my 41 years of political activity when I have perhaps been a little ahead of public opinion at the time. Yet so often today\u2019s avant-garde becomes tomorrow\u2019s status quo. Such thoughts cross my mind when I see a cross-section of New Zealand families celebrating their children\u2019s civil union, or a Government delegation from Viet Nam welcomed as friends and regional partners, when once to support relations with their country was thought to be far beyond the mainstream. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EMy first 6 years as an MP saw me focused on three main areas. First and foremost there was my electorate work in Mt Albert. How grateful I will always be to the wonderful people in those central Auckland suburbs for the opportunities and support that they gave me to grow and develop as a politician and a leader over 27 years. Mt Albert was formed as a new electorate in 1946, on the edge of the city. It faced a by-election the following year when the long-serving Arthur Richards, the former member for Roskill, retired. Warren Freer was then elected at the age of 26 and served for 34 years, rising to the No. 3 position in Labour\u2019s parliamentary hierarchy and becoming a senior Minister. I spoke with Warren last week and my understanding is that he is present with us here today. It is certainly my hope that Mt Albert will support and nurture Labour successors to Warren and me who have the capacity to rise to the very top of the New Zealand political system and serve the electorate and our country with distinction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe bread and butter constituency work in Mt Albert has always been interfacing with Government agencies and departments on matters like housing, social welfare, and immigration, and, of course, supporting the endeavours of our very fine local schools, sports clubs, and communities. Those communities are very strong and diverse, making it a rewarding electorate in which to live and work. I am going to miss it a lot over the next 4 years, but home is where the heart is, and my heart will always be in Kingsland, where Peter and I have spent the entire 27 years of our married life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003ESecond, there was the work here in Parliament, and for me that was mainly focused around various permutations of what is now the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, of which I became chair from 1984 to 1987. The nuclear-free legislation was a highlight of that period, as were the major reports our committee produced on disarmament and on New Zealand\u2019s relationship with China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThird, there was the broader work within the Labour Party, where I had been a New Zealand executive member since 1978. There was the excitement of the 1984 campaign, and the trauma of the economic shock and adjustments that followed the election. Victory in 1987 disguised the fact that in our heartland seats held by Ministers the Labour vote slumped, as the fourth Labour Government had delivered economic policies to which our traditional supporters could not relate and which had not been foreshadowed. That experience and the subsequent massive defeat in 1990 left a lasting impression on me, along with a determination for the future to be transparent about election policy, to deliver on it, and to always to keep faith with the loyal, long-term Labour supporters who sustain our movement through good years and bad. There are always fair-weather friends in politics. One knows who one\u2019s true friends are when they are still standing with you in the aftermath of defeat, and the phone\u2014and now the texts\u2014have otherwise gone rather quiet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EMy time as a Minister from 1987 to 1990 was very rewarding. It enabled me to engage with, be part of, see, visit, and meet communities right across our country. As Minister of Conservation it took me back to places in the South Island that I had last been to on family holidays with my family in the 1950s and 1960s. I was able to strike the occasional blow for the environment by rejecting obtrusive development projects, like the Monowai Mine on the Coromandel and the Nukuhau Marina, which was proposed near the mouth of the Waikato River, at Lake Taup\u014D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EPublic housing and health were passionate interests of mine, and so much was done, from the acquisition of many more State houses to the passage of the pioneering smoke-free legislation\u2014I had the darts in my back for many years after that\u2014and the innocently named Nurses Amendment Act that freed midwives to practise autonomously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EAs Minister of Labour in 1990 I took the Employment Equity Act through Parliament, only to see it gone by Christmas that very same year. In the face of a retailer revolt, I also promoted the legislation for 7-day shop trading. Although that was clearly not welcomed or wanted by retail workers, the introduction was softened by my writing what amounts to an advanced industrial agreement into the schedule of the Act. Alas, that did not long survive the 1990 election either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe 9 years in Opposition in the 1990s were tough years, as we in Labour worked to restore our battered electoral credibility. There was the shock treatment of the new National Government\u2019s health, superannuation, welfare, and industrial policies, and the unemployment rate rose above 10 percent in 1991. The electorate clearly was not happy in 1993, but still saw Labour as having a lot of baggage from the 1980s. This \u201Cplague on both your houses\u201D sentiment was then expressed in the resounding vote for change to the electoral system in 1992 and the binding referendum on MMP in 1993. The New Zealand electoral system and politics have never been the same since. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe two-party system crumbled as the first MMP election approached, with MPs leaving both major parties to sit elsewhere in the House, around the cross benches. I will never forget a Grey Power meeting I attended in Wanganui as the Leader of the Opposition, where there was a panel of representatives of the different political parties. With the single exception of the Hon Peter Gresham, every other representative of a political party had come from Labour. Then I saw the extent of the fragmentation that MMP had brought. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI became Leader of the Opposition, of course, at the very point that the old electoral order began to crumble and smaller parties had a chance of finding a niche in the political spectrum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E Labour lost support in particular to the Alliance and to New Zealand First. The nadir for me came with one of those dratted Colmar Brunton polls in the mid-1990s, which proclaimed that Labour had 14 percent support and I had 2 percent support as preferred Prime Minister. I have to say that it does not get much worse than that. Looking back on it now, with the advantage of hindsight, I am surprised only that concerned delegations of colleagues did not beat a path to my door rather more often than they did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EAgainst that background, success in the 1996 election was impossible, but, none the less, it marked a turning point for me and for Labour. The coalition Government stitched together was not a marriage made in heaven, and eventually it dissolved. Meanwhile, Labour and the Alliance were able to effect a rapprochement, and to campaign as a ready-made coalition in 1999. The rest is history: 1999 delivered a Labour-Alliance minority coalition Government, with support on confidence and supply from the Green Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EOur Government then, and in subsequent terms, embarked on a programme of change across the economic, social, environmental, and cultural spheres and in every other sphere, which over time I think has made a substantial difference for the better to many New Zealanders\u2019 lives. Our core values always were fairness, opportunity, and security, and we endeavoured to apply them across the board. We always took a long-term approach to investment, in the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, KiwiSaver, early childhood education, skills training, research and development, primary health care, and public transport. Investments in these areas can take decades\u2014generations\u2014to be paid off, but if we do not start making those investments, we will never get to the desired end point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EWe enhanced workers\u2019 rights through the Employment Relations Act, through paid parental leave, and through the fourth week\u2019s annual holiday. The economy on our watch experienced its longest run of continuous growth since World War II, and the unemployment rate remained low for years. Those successes gave us the capacity to make very significant investments in families, services, and infrastructure, and I believe that the rising tide did lift every boat, transforming the circumstances of M\u0101ori, P\u0101keh\u0101, Pasifika, Asian, and other communities, alike. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EIn the last term in particular, we had the comprehensive sustainability programme to put New Zealand on the front foot in combating climate change. I strongly believe that it is so important for our country\u2019s international credibility that we are seen to take these issues very seriously and be prepared to act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EOver 9 years we made very substantial acquisitions for the conservation estate. Indeed, many Cabinet colleagues will remember that when Chris Carter brought along yet another proposal, Michael Cullen would say: \u201CNot another iconic property!\u201D. There were so many. But for me the jewels in the crown were the transfer of Molesworth Station to the Department of Conservation, and, of course, last year the purchase of a pastoral lease of the spectacular St James Station, to be available for the people of New Zealand for all time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EIt was my pleasure to lead our work on arts and culture\u2014to encourage the development of Kiwi talent, audience enjoyment, economic opportunity, and the promotion of our unique New Zealand identity and perspectives. I found the heritage part of the portfolio particularly satisfying as I look back on years of big projects, from the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior, which I think touched many New Zealanders\u2019 hearts, to the newborn digital official encyclopaedia Te Ara, to volumes of oral and other histories of World War II and the Viet Nam War, and to the major regional museum and gallery projects in which the Government became a substantial funding partner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThere was also the ongoing process of reconciling with New Zealand\u2019s past\u2014of recognising injustice where it had occurred and addressing it. I think New Zealanders are now very familiar with the settlement of the historic grievances going back to the time of colonisation and the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi. Those settlements must be completed so that we are able to move forward together as a nation. As one who grew up on a farm on R\u014Dpatu land in the Waikato, where our family\u2019s presence felt like it had been there for ever, I cannot imagine the scale of loss felt by Waikato-Tainui from the mid-19th century. But I do hope that I and my Government have played our part in helping put it right. The presence of Kingi Tuheitia and his delegation here today means a great deal to me, as did the friendship of the late Te Arikinui, Dame Te Atairangikaahu, over many years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EAs well in my time as Prime Minister there was the apology to New Zealand\u2019s early Chinese settlers and their descendants for the unique and severe discrimination they suffered in our country for many decades, and the apology to Samoa for the injustices perpetrated by the New Zealand colonial administration. Just last year I issued on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand an apology to Viet Nam veterans and their families for the manner in which their loyal service to New Zealand was not recognised as it should have been, and for the inadequate support that had previously been extended to them and their families. It is important to put these matters right. Reconciliation, respect, inclusion, human rights\u2014these were important things for me as a Prime Minister with a deep belief in equality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EM\u0101oridom in recent decades has undergone a profound renaissance and stands very tall today as New Zealand\u2019s first people, as substantial economic stakeholders, and as contributors to so much that is fundamental to New Zealand\u2019s unique identity. I believe that our Government was a willing partner in that renaissance. The substantial Pasifika populations have also made their presence felt, from the professions to the factories, from the movie screens to the sports fields, and beyond, to become a quintessential part of the fabric of New Zealand society. I have enjoyed too my involvement with New Zealand\u2019s many emerging ethnic communities, whose cultures, heritage, language, and faiths have added so much to the richness of our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe Civil Union Act, which enabled rainbow couples to express their love for each other by cementing their relationship in law; the Property (Relationships) Act, which applied the principles of fair division of property on the dissolution of a de facto relationship; and our work guided by the New Zealand Disability Strategy were all important to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThere is so much about New Zealand that is special and that marks us out as a unique and gifted nation. We have evolved distinctive reconciliation and constitutional processes. Our institutions, from our Parliament and executive Government system under MMP to our Supreme Court, have evolved so far from that colonial heritage. It is inevitable, in my view, that our constitutional status as a monarchy will also change. It is a question of not if, but when. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EMy Government has sought to reflect our country\u2019s unique personality in New Zealand\u2019s international relations. For us, New Zealand needed to stand for peace, justice, reconciliation, and sustainability. Our refusal to participate in the war in Iraq was a decision based on principle, knowing that involvement would have ripped our country apart for no good purpose, whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI do take pride in the high regard in which New Zealand is held internationally\u2014in the work our Government did in the Pacific and East Asia; in rebuilding what had been for a long time a strained relationship with the United States of America; in broadening relations with Europe so that the occasional visits of Prime Ministers and Ministers to Brussels were not just to argue about the butter quota, important as the issue may be; in engaging strategically with Latin America; and in deploying peacekeepers around the globe. That high regard for New Zealand, and New Zealand\u2019s constructive way of working internationally, was the background against which my name went forward as a candidate for the position of Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme. I regard my selection as a huge honour personally and for New Zealand, and I will certainly seek at all times to carry out my duties there in a way that reflects well on New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E I have no regrets\u2014underline \u201Cno regrets\u201D\u2014about leaving Parliament at this time. I have had an incredible career here and I have been given such enormous opportunities. But it is time to go and for others in my party to take forward the cause that we believe in and that I, personally, will always believe in. Of course the election result was disappointing after so many years of hard work\u2014how could it not be\u2014and we had a sense of achievement in so many areas. But in a democracy the people\u2019s will must be accepted and respected, as it is by me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EA long and rewarding political career is never a solo act. I stand here knowing that I have been supported by so many people for so long because they believed in me and in the values they saw me representing. My parents gave me the best possible start in life that any child could have: a secure and loving home, and support for my education at every stage. My three sisters, my brothers-in-law, and my nieces, nephews, aunts, uncles, and cousins in our large extended Kiwi family have always been so supportive of Peter and me over our many years in the public eye. Peter himself has been a staunch supporter of my aspirations and career, no matter how unpleasant and difficult things got in political life from time to time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EFor 10 consecutive elections I have received solid support from the Mt Albert electorate. I thank all those who have voted and worked for me there over 27 years. Special thanks are due to the Mt Albert electorate committee\u2014members of whom are in the gallery today\u2014which has worked so hard to make our electorate one of the best organised for Labour in New Zealand, and to my hard-working electorate office staff, now led by my long-time friend and supporter Joan Caulfield. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EMy political career has been based on the values and principles of the New Zealand Labour Party, and I thank all those at every level and in every region across New Zealand for their constant support. Here in Parliament I have been privileged to work with remarkable and exceptional people, from my deputy leader for many years, Dr Michael Cullen, to all of those who have made up our Cabinet and our caucus. I have made many friends in politics and I know those friendships will be lifelong. The texts will keep coming, and I suspect also the occasional tweet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EOther political parties played an indispensable role in the success of our Government over 9 years in office. I worked particularly closely with the Hon Jim Anderton, and was pleased to see that a friendship formed in the 1970s, which had been placed under great strain in the late 1980s and the 1990s, resume in the 21st century as if there had never been a breach. Thank you, Jim, for everything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons and the Green Party worked closely with me and Labour for many years, and I believe we shared, and still share, common approaches in many areas. Although there was perhaps less commonality, none the less there were honourable relationships that guaranteed confidence and supply with the Hon Peter Dunne and United Future, and with the Rt Hon Winston Peters and New Zealand First. I believe a relationship based on considerable common interest was also possible with the M\u0101ori Party during the last parliamentary term. The Hon Tariana Turia and I go back a long way, and I acknowledge, in particular, her generous comments in Parliament last week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EMy contact with the National Party and ACT over the years has not been especially significant, given the extent of political differences between us. But I do wish, on this occasion, to acknowledge the leaders of both parties, John Key and Rodney Hide, for their courtesy to me, especially in recent times, and also the courtesy of numerous other members going back to the time of Marilyn Waring, Katherine O\u2019Regan, Paul East, and Simon Upton. I should also say I have also enjoyed Jim Bolger\u2019s company a lot post-politics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI have very much valued the ongoing wise counsel and advice of Geoffrey Palmer, and the support and insights that Mike Moore has provided to me on moving into the international system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EAs Prime Minister I was always supported by the broader public service in general, and by all those departments and agencies for which I had direct responsibility. In particular, there was Mark Prebble and then Maarten Wevers as heads of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and all their staff, including, of course, our Cabinet secretaries Marie Shroff, Diane Morcom, and Rebecca Kitteridge, who all worked hard to ensure that Labour, as a democratically elected Government, could implement its policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E That is the service that public servants offer to any of us who have the privilege to serve in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EMartin Matthews, Jane Kominik, and everyone at the Ministry for Culture and Heritage helped me to give arts, culture, and heritage a higher profile than ever before in our country. I thank them so much. The Department of Internal Affairs supported me in my role as Minister of Ministerial Services, which was rather like being chief enforcer on many occasions, and as host of countless international delegations at head of State and Government level over the years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI did enjoy my work with the Security Intelligence Service and with the Government Communications Security Bureau, led variously by Richard Woods, Warren Tucker, and Bruce Ferguson. I placed trust in them and their staff, as they did in me, and I believe, and will continue to believe, that what they do is in the interests of our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI also owe a great deal to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, which supported me and my Ministers on so many complex international issues and supported me personally through years of summits and bilateral visits. It was also a privilege to be involved in many ways with the New Zealand Defence Force and to see its work on and offshore. I will always remember the amazing visits to Kabul, Bamian, Basra, the Sinai, East Timor, and the Solomon Islands to see New Zealand military personnel at work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EClose personal support for me as Prime Minister came from my private office and the talented teams of staff led by Heather Simpson and Alec McLean, and to this day that support comes from my parliamentary staff Jacque Bernstein and Dinah Okeby, as it has always come from what are now generations of personal secretaries, researchers, press secretaries, messengers, diary secretaries, typists, and receptionists in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EPersonal protection came from the Diplomatic Protection Squad of the New Zealand Police, who stayed very close to me for the whole 9 years. The fact that I am standing here alive, well, safe, and healthy today means they did their job. To the Diplomatic Protection Squad and the New Zealand Police across our country, I say thank you for the support they always gave. They are New Zealand\u2019s unsung heroes, and I believe they deserve much greater recognition and praise for what they do to protect us all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EOver the 22 years since I first became a Minister of the Crown I have been not just driven but fully looked after and supported by the Government drivers in the VIP Transport Service of the Department of Internal Affairs. I have come to know many very well, and they are my friends. As a former Prime Minister I am privileged to continue using their service, so today marks not an end but an interlude. As General MacArthur once famously said: \u201CI will return.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EIt is 27 years to the month since I made my maiden speech in this Chamber at the tender age of 32. I have looked back at what was said at that time, and there were words that read: \u201CMy greatest wish is that at the end of my time in this House\u201D\u2014and I did envisage walking out rather than being carried out\u2014\u201CI shall have contributed towards making New Zealand a better place than it is today for its people to live in.\u201D I leave knowing that I have fulfilled my wish and that I did play a part in making New Zealand a better place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EIt has been a privilege and an honour to be a member of this House for 27 years and Prime Minister for 9 years. I wish my successor Phil Goff and the Labour team all the best for the next election, and I do wish New Zealanders well for what are undoubtedly challenging times ahead. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E[Applause]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a3ba5ddc5d243169ee6480c4030b169\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002270241eb66ad1499a9516745a2f2819f3\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224d38686adef245cbafd7297d275caba2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d38686adef245cbafd7297d275caba2\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E We are very close to the 6 o\u2019clock dinner break. I seek leave for the House to rise at this point and to resume again at 7.30.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d2dbe80b0474d5684fdd7743c9d933a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none. The House will resume at 7.30.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.42 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228973e6df7a96430aa29234e6a572ae28\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f739e62c7f8f4ac098d30d767bd01f8f\u0022\u003ERoyal Commission on Auckland Governance\u2014Government Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000501\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u002287a6d294214448359646b097d8e50039\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287a6d294214448359646b097d8e50039\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, for the opportunity to speak on this matter of importance not just to Auckland but to the nation. First, I thank the royal commission for putting together such a comprehensive report on such an important city in this country. The report is about reforming Auckland governance\u2014because we all know that it is broken. I acknowledge members opposite for putting the inquiry in process in 2007, but I also acknowledge the Minister of Local Government, the Hon Rodney Hide; the work done by the Hon John Carter; and the leadership of the National Party, with its coalition partners, in bringing forward a set of recommendations for this proposal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe proposal is about having one mayor, one council, one district plan, one set of rates, and one vision for Auckland City. It is about having a singularity of purpose and intent, and it is about bringing improvement to the lives not just of Aucklanders but of New Zealanders. We have heard a lot about what in the governance proposal will not work, but we have not heard about the huge benefits that a change in the governance system of Auckland City will bring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EAuckland is our biggest, most productive, and most colourful city, and we will have in place by October 2010 a governance system that will deliver high-quality services and a city that Aucklanders will be proud of. We are following the vision of the Auckland City Council, which is that Auckland will be the first city of the Pacific. So this issue is about changing the system of governance to produce efficiencies, drive economic activity, create jobs, and provide for a more prosperous city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWe have heard a number of members talk about the make-up of the proposed council. There will be 12 ward councillors, eight councillors elected \u201Cat large\u201D, and one super-mayor. The 12 ward councillor positions will provide the opportunity for Aucklanders to elect in their local ward or community a person who will represent that community to the rest of the city. The eight \u201Cat large\u201D councillors will be responsible for the greater vision of the city and will represent the city at large. Some have criticised this make-up\u2014and I find it rich that some of those who have criticised the proposed composition of the council are list members of Parliament. I find it particularly rich that some who have railed against the first-past-the-post system and have promoted the proportional representation system in this Parliament are now against having \u201Cat large\u201D councillors within the Auckland City Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis Government has responded to the needs of the communities by requiring grassroots participation from those communities. We have provided for 20 to 30 community boards so that those at the grassroots level can be represented democratically within the institution of the Auckland City Council. We have responded to public demand, and we have said that communities will get more responsibilities than are currently available under local community board representation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWe have heard the Leader of the Opposition say that we should not take the \u201Clocal\u201D out of local bodies, yet we have put it back in, so I do not know what document the Leader of the Opposition is reading. We do not need more bureaucracy; we need more effective governance institutions. We also heard a Green member of Parliament\u2014a list member, I might add\u2014say that community boards produce talkfests. Well, I invite that member to come to the community board meeting next Thursday in Maungakiekie. If she attends she will realise that such meetings are not talkfests. They are about local communities having a voice and advocating for the issues that mean something to them. She is welcome to come to a Maungakiekie community board meeting and hear what real, grassroots people have to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe new proposal will also reduce costs as we remove the duplication of services and staff within the Auckland City area. There will be one mayor, not seven mayors, and we will certainly not need a chair for a faltering regional council. There will be one chief executive officer, not seven. There will be one Watercare company, so shareholders will not have to hold regular meetings with officers and councillors to discuss the shareholding composition of that organisation. There will be one accounting system that works, rather than systems that do not talk to one another. Particularly important is the fact that there will be one set of rules around resource consents and building consents. There will be a consistency in approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWe need consistent approaches to projects. I think of the Auckland-Manukau Eastern Transport Initiative, which will link Manukau City with Auckland City. I think of the fact that the Auckland City Council has put provisions in its long-term council community plan to allow that project to go ahead, yet its partner, Manukau City, has no such provisions in its long-term plan. We should not allow these types of funding and planning mismatches to occur across Auckland City. I think of the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act, which was enacted last year and had bipartisan support in this House. I think of the big events in Auckland City, such as the Pasifika Festival\u2014which the Labour Government cut funding to\u2014and such as the art gallery\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207320ccd45d64aa591c50471fa3c2727\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, Sam!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225629167df08244438a7ec1508d2c463c\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: Carmel Sepuloni knows that it is true, and I have the emails to prove it. One council\u2014the Auckland City Council\u2014funds that festival, and the other councils just ride on the back of it. We can see that by having one council we will get a consistent approach not just to infrastructure projects and major events in Auckland City but to economic development, which is critical to this country at this particular time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EPeople have talked about inequities in terms of ratings. Well, half of the submitters to the royal commission were from Waiheke, and when we count the rates paid by Waiheke people and count the benefits they attain from those rates, we find that they get a net benefit. To say that small communities do not benefit from larger councils is a fallacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ELet us talk about representation. We have heard a number of people say that this issue is about money. No, it is not about money. There is no correlation between money spent and one\u2019s probability of being elected. It is about belonging to a party, as members across the House know. It is about hard work, belonging to a community, and representing people. It is not about money. It is about putting up candidates who are able to do a job, and an effective job at that. It is not about pandering to interest groups. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E We have had consultation for the last 2 years. We have heard from over 3,500 submitters. We will have a Local Government Commission that will do some consultation. We will have a select committee process that will effect consultation\u2014and Auckland MPs, right across the House, can consult their constituents. This proposal is about going forward, and it is about putting in place the best system for Auckland City. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a4d3c0a7626844bbb122bb52878b5bd1\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6662a017d884fe5aab082551fc7e8d7\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u002284be213358c74f4cb3e5ebbf3cd33c94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284be213358c74f4cb3e5ebbf3cd33c94\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. I acknowledge the valedictory speech of Helen Clark today. It can be fairly said that she is the author of New Zealand\u2019s independent foreign policy and, by and large, that now has wide, wide support both within the community and within this Parliament. But one thing I have to ask is why she was not generous enough to acknowledge the new leader of the Labour Party. Does that mean she thinks he will fail, that he will not make it to the 2011 election, or that maybe she has even forgotten his name? It was, I thought, quite remarkable and it will have been observed by many people across this nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe speech by the leader of the Labour Party in relation to the Royal Commission on Auckland\u2019s Governance just showed how out of touch he really is. The difference is this: this week the National-led Government\u2014with ACT, in particular, because Rodney Hide is the Minister of Local Government\u2014has made decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EAucklanders expected us to make decisions, because there have been months of debate, intense discussion, and hearings by the royal commission. Every politician in this House from Auckland knows that full well. They have been following the debate and have been close to the communities that they represent. Every one of them is agreed that the existing structure is inadequate and that there should be a single city across the region. That is essential for this reason: we have one of the finest harbours in the world; we have simply failed to realise that potential. Anyone who goes to the waterfront will know its scruffy nature. It was not surprising to me that Mr Bob Harvey said that he, and other politicians in the Auckland region, owed New Zealand and Auckland an apology. They have failed Auckland through having a deficient structure to fix that up. I know that Maryan Street, who at least was previously from Auckland, knows the truth of that. It was essential to move on that issue, and I think there is wide consensus on the single city structure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe debate essentially settled on the second tier. Let me also be clear about this: it is obvious from the royal commission, and from all the debate, that there should be only two tiers. There is no question of having more tiers than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EOver the last week I have received hundreds of emails from across North Shore on the future of the community boards. On Monday night I went to the Devonport Community Board meeting. The voices of those at the meeting were absolutely clear that they wanted the retention of their community board. Why is that? It is because the residents of Devonport and Bayswater know that if they want an issue resolved in their particular region, it is the community board that deals with it. It is not the wider North Shore City Council but the community board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI tell members that if I want to know something about Devonport that I may not personally know myself\u2014although being resident in the area, I usually do\u2014I immediately ring Mike Cohen, the chair of the board, and ask him what he thinks about an issue or what people are thinking about an issue, although by and large I will already have some sense of it. What I do not do is to ring the mayor, because he represents 220,000 people. It is that attachment to the community board that people value. That is the message I have been getting over many, many months, and it certainly came through very clearly over the last 10 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe Government has listened to that message. I know I have not been alone in hearing that message, I might add. Many other politicians have heard precisely the same message. Mr Maurice Williamson relayed to his colleagues very clearly and very explicitly the same message from his community. So did the Hon Judith Collins. She relayed exactly that same message. So did Pansy Wong. All of us have received the message that people want connectivity to their local community through representation. The Government has acted, because the consultation has been done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002209d4fda6c9c946ecaa387fb670970366\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209d4fda6c9c946ecaa387fb670970366\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E What a totally hysterical, totally ungracious, and totally lacking in fact contribution to the House. In the past I would have expected better of Dr Mapp, but I know of his near-miss of getting into Cabinet\u2014because it was a very, very, close call\u2014his low ranking, and the portfolios that nobody else wanted so they thought they might as well be given to Dr Wayne Mapp. Since that time his total invisibility probably makes him a little bitter, even though he should not be bitter in that position. For that member to be so ungracious in respect of the valedictory speech of the Rt Hon Helen Clark is, I think, appalling. Every other member in this House, including his leader, John Key, and people like Rodney Hide, who had no reason at all to be gracious to anybody in the Labour Party, had the decency and common courtesy to offer her the respect that she most certainly deserves, because she has earned it. For that member to come into this House and attack her and Phil Goff is just a disgrace. I think the member should learn his basic manners before he takes a call in the House again. At this time in New Zealand most New Zealanders are saying: \u201CIt\u2019s the economy, stupid!\u201D and they are saying it with a lot of passion and a lot of feeling, frankly, to people like Dr Mapp. I know his colleagues certainly agree with the latter part of my comment, because those comments are frequently made to members on this side of the House in regard to that member\u2014\u201CIt\u2019s the economy, stupid!\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe single thing that we expect from the Government is leadership; we expect strong leadership on the economic issues that are confronting not just our nation but also other nations around the globe, as well. But what we have had on these areas from the two leaders in National are completely conflicting statements\u2014and I have to say that Phil Goff has highlighted this extraordinarily well over the last few days in questions in the House. John Key said one thing, Bill English said another, and neither of them look at each other any more. When we watch them from this side of the House, their body language is just fabulous. Nathan Guy knows that because he sits right behind them, and I am sure he is tempted to pour a glass of water over them so that he can cool the tension between them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eb00cdd122a40dfa4a1d7f17976c20a\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: When he\u2019s not coaching David Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d91a2d1d3fa342b988997c0652ad6a74\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. In fact, Nathan Guy has spent an awful lot of time in the House over the last little while, coaching poor old David Bennett from Hamilton, coaching Richard Worth, and, of recent times, persuading Nick Smith to go out a different door so that Steven Joyce does not give him another bollocking that we can all see out in the lobby. But Steven Joyce has been too quick for him. On a number of occasions we have seen that Steven Joyce is much faster than he looks. He does not look like Chris Hipkins; he does not look like a young, fit, athletic person\u2014the sort of person who would do a marathon. [Interruption] I am not being insulting, at all, but he is not really, really young, and really, really trim and fit. But by crikey, he can move fast when he has a Minister in his sights. Maurice Williamson is looking a bit anxious. I have not heard yet that Mr Joyce has the Hon Maurice Williamson in his sights, but I tell Mr Joyce to be wary. I think the Hon Maurice Williamson would be able to out-sprint him. He certainly knows more about transport than Steven Joyce will ever know. That is very obvious from his contributions in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E We have the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance completely at odds about the financial situation and where our economy is headed. On 22 March on Q\u002BA on the TV John Key said \u201CI think by the end of 2009, early 2010, or this time next year we\u2019ll be starting to come out of that [economic situation] and I think actually starting to come out of it reasonably aggressively.\u201D I am not quite sure what all that language means, but he was confident that we would come out of our recession reasonably aggressively by the end of this year or the beginning of next year. But just 2 weeks later, on exactly the same programme, Bill English said \u201CI think one of the features of this recession is that we\u2019re unlikely to aggressively grow out of it.\u201D He was not just contradicting his leader, but also in a considered and thoughtful way, in my view, deliberately using the Prime Minister\u2019s own language to contradict him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6a8734148e74116b2491ca3131ba588\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6a8734148e74116b2491ca3131ba588\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E If members on the Opposition side of the House want to hear something complimentary about Labour then I will say something. I think Labour needs a huge compliment paid to it for what it did in the late 1980s, with regard to local government reform. I think Michael Bassett, the Minister of Local Government in 1989, did one of the best things this country has seen, which is take 740 local authorities and bring down the number to 74. But if we are going to be critical of Michael Bassett\u2014and I do not like to be\u2014I have to say he did not go far enough. That was the problem. He left Auckland with seven local authorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe joke I used to crack in Auckland was that with all the local authorities\u2014I think we had 34 of them, including the Mount Albert Borough Council, the Mount Eden Borough Council, and the Mount Roskill Borough Council\u2014we are really lucky our roads join up. Then someone pointed out to me that there were some roads in Auckland that did not actually join up. There is a road called Burnley Terrace, just behind Eden Park. The Mount Eden side of the road comes in from one end, and the Mount Albert side comes in from the other end, and there is a little dogleg in the middle where they had to make the road join, because the authorities did not even talk to each other back then about where the roads were going to go. There is just example after example. Now, with seven local authorities, I can give members examples in my portfolio of building and construction where a house that was consented in Manukau City could not get consented in Waitakere. That is just nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI am sorry we spent four point something million dollars on a royal commission inquiry to advise us on one thing that my colleagues will tell members I have been banging the drum about for a long time with one sentence. I had just one sentence. I said: \u201CI want the big things to go up, and the little things to go down.\u201D In my electorate, I can tell members, it turned out that the people of Howick who felt incensed about local government amalgamation were not actually upset about being amalgamated into Manukau City or about even big things like wastewater, water, roading, and all of those big networks and major issues; they wanted to have more say about their library, swimming pool, whether there would be a disabled car park beside the supermarket, or whatever. It a really clear one-sentence rule. The big things should go up to one council, and the small things should go down to local communities, where they can have a say on the things that matter to them but it does not disturb things. In Wayne Mapp\u2019s case, the people of Devonport should have a say over things that relate to Devonport. In my case, the people of Howick should have a say over things that relate to Howick. In Judith Collins\u2019 case, the people of Papakura should have a say over things that relate to Papakura. But none of those people should have a say over the Auckland-wide things to any more degree than anyone else. That is what has come about from democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWhen I hear members on the other side saying that this move is anti-democratic, I am simply gobsmacked, because I think this is one of the best things we could do for Auckland. First of all, there will be 20 elected councillors. Eight of them will be elected at large. To hear some members in this House who came here from a party list and did not even get voted for themselves\u2014not one person voted for those list members because one cannot\u2014saying that to be voted at large across Auckland is anti-democratic is the antithesis of democracy. I believe that it is a damn good idea to have some people across the city who are not elected parochially, who are not being elected to look after the Pakuranga area or the Manurewa area, but who are there for the better part of Auckland. There will be eight such people. Then we come to strengthening democracy at the next level. Twelve of the 20 councillors, besides the eight at large, will be down at ward level: three at Manukau, three at Auckland City, two at Waitakere, two at the North Shore, one at Franklin, and one at Rodney. They are all based on population. How can that not be democratic? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI say to my colleagues and friends in the M\u0101ori Party that I worry about the concern I heard last night, with people saying that M\u0101ori will not get a say. Actually, M\u0101ori will get a very good say. They will be able to vote and they will be able to vote for people at large. I think that if they organise themselves then they have a damn good chance of successfully getting two or three members in the at-large vote to be candidates. That is how this system has been set up. Then the next thing, which I thought the royal commission really failed on, were the six pseudo-councils lying underneath the proposed Auckland Council. I am really pleased to have been on the Cabinet committee that made the decision that that was ridiculous and that there was no local representation in that. The big request we are getting is to have local democracy and local government, so we have moved to 20 to 30 local boards. We are enhancing their functions and roles and we are strengthening them. They will have a lot of say over what goes on. But what I am really delighted about is that no longer will we have a building consent for this area, one for that area, and one for somewhere else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00227c4a11769ce944688fd2bb5dcd5e487b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c4a11769ce944688fd2bb5dcd5e487b\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E One knows when a Minister is really in trouble; it is when the Prime Minister has to explain in very extravagant terms how very confident he is in him. According to John Key, Nick Smith has a brain the size of the South Island. But let us look at the facts: since becoming the Minister for ACC, Nick Smith has botched the sacking of Ross Wilson, has engaged in what senior actuaries and very respected commentators have labelled \u201Cirresponsible scaremongering\u201D about the accident compensation scheme, and has gagged and bullied the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) board. He then attempted to do the same to ACC\u2019s chief executive officer, Dr Jan White, right in front of my eyes, by gatecrashing a select committee on ACC\u2019s financial performance and actively trying to prevent her\u2014in fact, interrupting her\u2014from answering some questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThat is just the start of it. Since Nick Smith took over the ACC portfolio we have seen the calculated manufacture of a non-existent crisis. We know that the ACC portfolio\u2014some of us know this better than others\u2014is complex and difficult, but it does not need breathless, irascible, panicky behaviour in its management. It does not need the kind of panicky approach the Minister for ACC has taken and demonstrated in the last few months; it needs a calm and measured approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EYes, in areas where costs are rising, we should ask what we can do about that. Well, let us take a deep breath and look at what the scheme offers, to see where costs might be curtailed. Why are they going up? In part, they are going up because of an ageing population and because an ageing population takes longer to rehabilitate. But, more than anything, if the kinds of approach to the scheme this National Government has taken in the past are taken again, we will see fewer visits to physiotherapists by order\u2014in that one is allowed to have only five visits, or six, as I think it was in the 1990s. Then one had to jump through enormous hoops to get further treatment\u2014that approach does not facilitate good rehabilitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe scheme requires a calm approach, a rational approach, and a considered approach. None of those approaches have been demonstrated by the Minister who has responsibility for one of the jewels in the crown of our social structures in New Zealand. The accident compensation scheme is the envy of the world. It is the envy of the world because of its comprehensive coverage, because of the low rates of levies, and because it protects its injured citizens from the trials and tribulations of litigation. That is one of its greatest features.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E As part of his plan to manufacture a crisis that is non-existent, we have heard Nick Smith talk, in the general debate, about the accident compensation scheme and its solvency, and that the reality is that accident compensation is effectively insolvent. Yet a few days later on Morning Report, David Parker said to him that he had been calling the scheme insolvent, and that it was not. Nick Smith said he had not. This man cannot even agree with himself, let alone get the facts right about accident compensation. He cannot maintain a consistent line from one week to the next, because he has no comprehensive understanding yet. Although one hopes he might gain it in time, he clearly does not yet have an understanding of solvency as it relates to the scheme. If a scheme has liabilities of $22 billion and assets of $10 billion, there is an issue of solvency until we look at the period of time over which those liabilities are calculated. The liabilities are calculated over the lifetime of an injury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00228ecf624e1daf40ec8ece0551f6ac4a56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ecf624e1daf40ec8ece0551f6ac4a56\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that was the previous Minister of Housing who presided over slum landlords, and the previous Minister for ACC who presided over a huge budget blowout of about half a billion dollars and did not declare all the figures in the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update. That member should hang her head in shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EToday is a sad day for the Labour Party, is it not? It is a sad day because the Rt Hon Helen Clark has decided to step down and leave this place. We heard her valedictory speech today, as she moves off to her position in the UN in New York. Most New Zealanders and, indeed, the House will wish her well in that position, and in what she will do for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThis is the end of an era for the Labour Party. Ms Clark was someone who held the Labour caucus extremely tightly. She really was very much a control freak. People in the Labour caucus were still confiding in Helen Clark, who was the heir to everyone in the Labour Party and, indeed, in the Labour caucus. She was someone who had sheer intellectual grunt and knowledge. She will be sorely missed in the Labour caucus. What will happen from hereon in, when Dr Cullen goes at the end of this month, is that the Labour caucus will lose two tremendous leaders. That is another two leaders gone from the Labour Party. We will watch from this side of the House as the party ruptures and haemorrhages, with those two strong leaders deciding to move on to better things. The House wishes them both well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt is time to reflect on the positioning that will take place in the Labour caucus. It has already started. The chat has already started down the corridors and around the water coolers about who will be the successor to Phil Goff. It is an embarrassment that Phil Goff got 6 percent as the preferred Prime Minister in the latest poll. Today, Phil Goff will actually be feeling a little bit chipper. Do members know why? It is because he heard, like the whole of the House heard, during the Rt Hon Helen Clark\u2019s valedictory speech this afternoon that when she started as the Labour Party leader her polling as preferred Prime Minister was 2 percent. So Phil Goff will be feeling very chipper that he is currently polling on 6 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI also want the House to know that when Phil Goff came to Rotorua recently to talk to the Rotorua Chamber of Commerce, the Prime Minister had already been in a few weeks before, and 350 people had turned up to the Rotorua Chamber of Commerce luncheon. When the leader of the Labour Party, Phil Goff, decided to turn up in Rotorua, do members know what happened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9f02a7b623a4bd0961e37b3d7511126\u0022\u003EAaron Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c53390850eb348b69296ef99a428dbd4\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Four people registered. Do members know who one of those people was? It was the previous member for Rotorua, Steve Chadwick, so three people turned up to listen to Phil Goff. In fact, that Chamber of Commerce lunch had to be turned down. We will watch with interest, with the two leaders who are in the process of leaving the Labour caucus, just what will happen, and who might be the aspirants lining up behind Phil Goff. Will it be the Hon Ruth Dyson? Will it be the member who spoke before me, the Hon Maryan Street? Will it the Hon Dr\u2014do they have a doctor left? Will it be David Cunliffe, or will it be someone like Clayton Cosgrove? It will be very, very interesting to watch, as I believe the Labour Party will now start haemorrhaging. The knives will start getting sharpened, and we will watch from this side of the House with great interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThere was very positive news, though, this week and, indeed, today, with the National Government\u2019s understanding of MMP and its reaching out to the Green Party by signing a memorandum of understanding on home insulation, energy efficiency, and natural health products. On this side of the House, the National Government understands MMP and how it works. Members opposite are the true Opposition. There we have 43 members of the haemorrhaging Labour Party, and one from the Progressive party. So there are 44 members opposite, against the balance of members in the House. It will be interesting to see how we progress forward, and the way the National Government under John Key is realising how MMP works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfdb61ddd04c40788972e5e0b27f5313\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfdb61ddd04c40788972e5e0b27f5313\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E At the present time New Zealand is suffering from its worst economic downturn in more than 50 years. Over the last 3 months of 2008 our economy contracted by around 1 percent, and for the first 3 months of this year it has probably contracted by more than 1 percent. A net 47 percent of firms have said that activity worsened during that period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EIt is obvious that part of the reason for this downturn and the recession has been the financial crisis that has hit the world, but, more importantly, the problems that New Zealand face have largely been of our own making. In fact, if we look at the Government administration over the last 12 years, we see that it is has probably been the worst period of Government in at least 70 years. I was part of the Kirk-Rowling Government, and I cannot say that we were a particularly good Government; nor was the Muldoon Government of 1978-84. But the last 12 years have been the worst that I have ever seen, and the previous Labour Government should be ashamed of its performance over the last 9 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EWhy do I say this? That Government allowed Government expenditure to get out of control. In the 12 years between 1984 and 1996 Government spending in 2009-dollar terms actually went down. In that period, Government expenditure in this country, per head of population, went down by $305 per year. In other words, it was $305 lower in 1996 than it had been in 1984. But the reverse happened under a National Government between 1996 and 1999, and again under the Labour Governments that followed. In 2009, Government expenditure per head is $7,567 more than it was in 1996, so a family of four is paying over $30,000 in extra taxes to the Government\u2014that is, $587.07 a week, to be precise. My question to the Labour Party is what do people get for that $587? Imagine how much better off people would be if they had that $587. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThose members do not like it, do they? They robbed the people they claim to represent. They took $30,000 off them, and flushed it down the toilet on family commissions and all sorts of other things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E Not only that, the consequences of transferring the $30 billion from the private sector to the public sector in that period, which certainly included 3 years of National Government, were a loss of productivity and a loss of output that probably cost New Zealand 2 percent a year, or around 25 to 30 percent in productivity and wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThat has been the worst period of Government in living memory. Those previous Labour Government members should be ashamed of themselves. There was an increase for a family of four of $30,000 in taxation. I ask the next speaker from Labour to tell me how much better it would have been for average families, the people they claim to represent and whom I used to represent in \u014Ctara, if they had had an additional $30,000 in their pockets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u002255156fdd48f240c9b5b4313916052663\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255156fdd48f240c9b5b4313916052663\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E My strong instinct is to spend the next 10 minutes refuting the falsehoods of the gentleman who has just resumed his seat. He believes that if he repeats something that is wrong often enough, he will turn it into something that is right. But I have other things to do. I have to list the mistakes of the Hon Dr Richard Worth, and that will take all of the time I have available to me. I will go through them one by one and see how far I get. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI think that going to India as a private individual and then, after getting there, making a big noise about being a Government Minister was probably Dr Worth\u2019s first mistake, and it was highlighted in particular by one newspaper with the largest circulation in northern India, which described him as a senior Minister. I think that shows poor judgment, and I think that is gilding the lily. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EBut the second mistake was having a shareholding and a directorship in New Zealand Aviation, which was going into a joint venture with the Southern Institute of Technology to train Indian aviation pilots in New Zealand. Indeed, that was one purpose of the gentleman\u2019s trip. He claimed that New Zealand Aviation was non-trading\u2014true\u2014but he went to India to try to correct that inactivity. He claimed that he would not be part of the joint venture, which I think is sophistry because the joint venture would have had as its underlying ownership New Zealand Aviation, of which the gentleman was a shareholder and director. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EDr Worth\u2019s third mistake was that he forgot to tell the Prime Minister. He embarrassed the Prime Minister. Dr Worth told him that he was going to India on a general trade mission. He did not tell the Prime Minister about his shareholding in that company, and therefore, having caused the Prime Minister embarrassment, he was labelled by the Prime Minister as \u201Cunwise and stupid\u201D, and he received a bollocking. He then arrived in Parliament, duly bollocked, and made a mess of question time. The first Tuesday, the next Thursday, the day after that, today\u2014this guy cannot answer questions straight in Parliament, and that, I think, is his fourth mistake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EDr Worth\u2019s fifth mistake was made on Monday of last week, when he told the Prime Minister he would immediately get out of his shareholdings, and on Tuesday of last week, when he told the media he had already done so. He was wrong; he had not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c789ce0a5eb4a9896eb6d237b4e595a\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: He was building up to April Fool\u2019s Day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227597e97a8dd4e578f9559b33bfc7e9f\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It was not an April Fool\u2019s Day joke. He meant it. He said he meant it, and he was on the front page of the New Zealand Herald on Wednesday, saying he was out. But he was not. He still had a shareholding in companies\u2014Indian-focused companies. By Thursday he still had shareholdings in WSD Global Markets and the Indian Overseas Group. Therefore he got another bollocking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EDr Worth\u2019s sixth mistake was that he told the chief executive of the Southern Institute of Technology last September that he would get himself out of his interests in New Zealand Aviation, and then, when she reported that in the Southland Times, he said she must have misunderstood him. Well, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy, you and I both know the chief executive of the Southern Institute of Technology, and she is not someone who easily misunderstands people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EDr Worth\u2019s seventh mistake was that he told Radio New Zealand, including on yesterday morning, that he had dropped his directorship of WSD Global Markets because he learnt that it was going to be listed. That is wrong, again. WSD Global Markets has been going to be listed for months. If one asks anyone in Tasman Capital, one will be told it has been an ongoing feature of that company, yet Dr Worth first became a director of it only a few months ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E So he must have known, when he did his due diligence at the time of becoming a director, that the company was going to be listed, but on Radio New Zealand he gave as his excuse for stopping being a director the reason that the company was going to be listed. The real reason he got out of the job as a director and shifted his shares from a personal holding into a family trust was that he knew that WSD Global Markets had come to the attention of the Serious Fraud Office. In fact, he was told that over a cocktail party in Auckland in September by an Auckland business person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EMistake No. 8 was that Dr Worth helped himself to facilitation services at Auckland Airport that he was not entitled to. One of his travelling companions could not stop bragging that he was facilitated, too, although in more recent days that travelling companion now denies it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EDr Worth fiddled his own Wikipedia entry\u2014this is interesting\u2014was caught, and was told off by Wikipedia. That was done instead of doing proper housework, like going to the Brookers website for the nation\u2019s law directory and correcting his own entry, which even today says Dr Worth is a consultant for Simpson Grierson\u2014as he holds the job of a Minister of the Crown! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EA tenth mistake is that Dr Worth claims to have met all his own costs on that trip to India but will not table his receipts, instead demanding to be taken at his word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u00221f4567efa94544f0be98a0a58831e8ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f4567efa94544f0be98a0a58831e8ce\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge Helen Clark\u2019s valedictory speech today, and I wish her well in her new role at the UN. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn the first few months of this Government National has kept its word on law and order. We have new legislation on parole, new legislation on bail, new legislation on DNA sampling, new legislation on victims\u2019 rights, and, just last week, urgent measures dealing with sex offenders. We have kept our promise to the electorate and we are doing what we said we would do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EFour Fridays ago I joined H\u0113nare O\u2019Keefe at Flaxmere Skate Bowl. H\u0113nare is the gentleman who ran the \u201CEnough is Enough\u201D march against crime. H\u0113nare, Des R\u0101tima, and a group of dedicated supporters have been initiating projects to address crime in Hawke\u2019s Bay. On this particular night we were out with the marae\u2019s recently acquired new barbecue, \u201CTunutunu\u201D, talking to the kids at the skate bowl. These kids, aged from just 8 years, were bored, had only 16-year-old gang aspirants as their leaders, and largely had parents who did not give a damn that they were out roaming the streets at midnight. From watching and talking to these kids as they ate at the barbecue, it became pretty clear that lifting the sentencing bar again and again will not address the issues that these kids face. National is cognisant that continually lifting the level of sentencing will not address the drivers of crime on its own. As a result, I was proud to see Simon Power recognise this fact by way of his Drivers of Crime forum last Friday. I congratulate Minister Power and Pita Sharples, who worked together on that initiative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EHawke\u2019s Bay has been at the centre of addressing the drivers of crime and seeking alternative solutions for decades. Now that we have addressed some of the inadequacies in bail, parole, and victims\u2019 rights here in the House, it is my opinion that we must focus on top-of-the-cliff solutions if we are to deliver better outcomes in the crime debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EJust last weekend I attended Wairoa\u2019s CACTUS youth programme graduation day. Dubbed \u201CThe Longest Day\u201D, last Saturday represented the graduation of the fourth group of Wairoa youth to complete the programme. \u201CThe Longest Day\u201D started at 6 a.m. and finished at 12 p.m., combining a series of physical challenges and finishing with pulling a 17-tonne fire truck down the main street of Wairoa. It brought together an 8-week programme aimed at teaching the teenagers discipline, goal setting, and leadership. It was an amazing day and an amazing programme, and the impact on the kids was clear to see. CACTUS was recently awarded the top award at the nationwide TrustPower Community Awards. I congratulate Detective Sergeant Mick Lander, Mayor Les Probert, and the Wairoa College principal, Brian Simpson, who together with many others pulled this amazing project together. The upshot of this initiative is that a number of communities around New Zealand are now trialling the programme. CACTUS is just one example of many programmes being initiated for youth in Hawke\u2019s Bay and also around New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E I wish to bring one problem to the attention of the House, and it goes to the heart of the matter. It is the glue that holds these programmes together. Normally the glue would be a family, a wh\u0101nau, that reinforces the values, the skills, and the goals taught on these programmes. Unfortunately, in many families these lessons are not reinforced when the kids return home, and old habits come back very quickly. Regrettably, this means that many very good programmes often have only short-term benefits. My challenge to the House is to come up with a long-term solution that offers effective competition to the gangs from an age when children are first being prospected by those gangs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe issue is boredom and parents who do not give a damn. I think that one answer lies in the many urban maraes that are flourishing around this nation. No one will ever replace the family, and we should not try to replace it. But somehow we need to provide an ongoing alternative for kids who are bored, whose parents do not give a damn, and whose only role models are the 16-year-olds who are prospecting to be the next generation of gang members. I think that maraes can provide ongoing home and youth programmes that address the issues I have just spoken about. In Hawke\u2019s Bay H\u0113nare O\u2019Keefe and his team will be working to trial just such a programme over the next year. I look forward to updating the House on this project as we in the Hawke\u2019s Bay look to progress a brighter future for our kids. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00228efaaebde0c54f388541bc8c18ad6542\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228efaaebde0c54f388541bc8c18ad6542\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to initiate a series of four statements to be advanced by the Green Party over the next month. It is our intention to put forward for public consideration a general statement addressing four themes: the problems we face in today\u2019s world, the inadequacy of traditional politics to meet the challenge, the Green political philosophy for the 21st century, and the Green economic programme for the next decade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EHumankind is entering the age of reckoning. In earlier times Earth\u2019s erratic climate precluded sedentary agriculture, and thus any ordered society. For the past 10 millennia a stable climate has allowed us to tame nature in a relatively empty world where resources were abundant and our numbers sparse. Through technological ingenuity we went forth and multiplied, in the belief we were inheriting the Earth. Over the past two centuries the human population has grown from 1 billion to 7 billion, and our terrestrial inn is full. In the past half-century the global population has doubled, yet global GDP has grown fivefold in global trade and twentyfold in volume. The world economy, driven by the classical economic precepts of resource, exploitation, and unlimited growth, has overheated. In the past century each human\u2019s Earth share has shrunk to less than half what it was\u2014from 5 hectares to 2. Yet as our Earth share has shrunk, our ecological footprint has expanded, recorded now at 2.7 hectares per person. With greater numbers and a larger footprint, we now record an ecological overshoot of 25 percent beyond the planet\u2019s carrying capacity. We are today colliding with the limits of Earth\u2019s finite resources\u2014limits that are elastic, but that can snap. Economic hubris precedes ecological collapse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EAs part of that overshoot, this generation is bequeathing severe global environmental problems to the next, leaving behind us an impoverished planet. We have engaged in extensive deforestation and desertification of the land surface, and have damaged some 20 percent of the coral reefs. We have created an ozone hole in the atmosphere that is injurious both to agriculture and to human health. We are causing climate change of unprecedented magnitude, and we face the catastrophic potential of global warming with storms and droughts, ensuing crop failure, and debilitating sea level rise. We are on the way to a human-induced mass extinction of Earth\u2019s species\u2014at our own hands. In the worst-case scenario, over the next century human civilisation itself will be under severe strain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ETo compound matters, in the past two decades we have engaged in a frenzy of unlicensed financial adventurism, giving vent to individual and corporate greed of shameful immorality. The resulting financial meltdown has caused a global recession of proportions not experienced for many generations. Last century repressive communism imploded and a necrotic mindset withered away. This decade predatory capitalism has exploded and that voracious mindset is undergoing death throes of a character all its own. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFrom the wreckage of such ideological excesses we search for a rational and balanced way of life, but the short-term financial emergency obscures a clear view of the long-term ecological crisis. We in New Zealand believe ourselves to be insulated from the worst of both crises. Our banking system has been more responsible than elsewhere. Because of our rich national resource base and sparse population, we run an ecological surplus. Yet we are an integral part of the rest of the world. The global fate is our fate. Any nation that believes it can survive the global ecological crisis and prosper with positive good fortune is not only self-centred but self-deluded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThere is no choice. We must change our mindset, our way of life, our governmental management, and our political direction or we shall experience ecological collapse. This goes for New Zealand as assuredly as it does for the rest of the global community. Traditional politics of the kind embraced by National and Labour in this country will fail us in our time of need. The Green Party, with its new and positive philosophy, offers the answer to these problems, as my colleagues will explain in subsequent statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI seek leave to table a document called Prosperity Without Growth? The transition to a sustainable economy. It is by the Sustainable Development Commission of the United Kingdom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022892ed748395e4d3e940d26b55fb877cc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is seeking leave to table that document. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? There appears not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00229155e543632d4ad18ccf1aa09ae1e229\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229155e543632d4ad18ccf1aa09ae1e229\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I also acknowledge the valedictory speech made by the Rt Hon Helen Clark, and wish her well for the future. I am sure she will do New Zealand proud. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI am delighted to have the opportunity to take a call tonight. My congratulations go to the National Government for its quick response and its common-sense analysis of the royal commission\u2019s report on Auckland governance. The royal commission spent 20 months consulting, talking to groups, and considering numerous submissions. It is very clear that for far too long Auckland has struggled under multiple bureaucratic layers. The commission\u2019s report, although comprehensive, unfortunately blurred some of the lines of authority, and did not really address the local community\u2019s need for representation and a strong voice. The Government has corrected these oversights in the report that has been tabled. The Government has digested the royal commission\u2019s report and has moved quickly and decisively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe Government has retained the one unitary authority, called the Auckland Council. This authority will be able to provide leadership and effectively deliver core services such as transport, water, and waste. The Auckland Council will have the responsibility of managing all the $28 billion of community assets, and for planning and managing the region\u2019s infrastructure. For far too long the Auckland region has suffered from inaction. Ninety-six territorial local authorities is 95 too many. Competing interests and infighting have resulted in a region that has stagnated. The Government\u2019s decision\u2014to have one council, 20 to 30 community boards with 125 to 150 members, one regional mayor with governance powers, 20 councillors, one long-term council community plan, one district plan, one waterfront agency, one rates bill, one rating system, and so on\u2014will provide the basis for Auckland to move ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EFor far too long the community has not had a voice. Rejecting the royal commission\u2019s plan to have a local community council as the second tier and instead having 20 to 30 community boards with much more say over their communities will at last give communities the voice they have long sought. The changes the Government proposes will give Auckland communities the voice that they need and that has been stripped away in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E The Government is determined that communities will have their say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe community of Mt Roskill, where I am a list MP, has been demanding a greater say in how it functions. People have had a growing concern over the effect that alcohol has, and they have wanted a say. That was clearly evident last year when the Mount Roskill South community came together to oppose the imminent opening of a liquor outlet only 100 metres away from two schools, a kindergarten, and a church. If the proposal had been successful, there would have been 10 liquor outlets in the Mount Roskill South area. The community was very concerned about the growing issue of youth crime and alcohol. There was concern that alcohol would fuel that trend, and that if there were more liquor outlets there would be a downward spiral. The community was concerned that the current legislation had no teeth, and it was particularly concerned that the community had no say over where liquor outlets should be. So people came together, and I was heartened by that\u2014I was really heartened by that. They met on two occasions last year and proposed activities, and they were going to go all the way back to the council to oppose the outlet. Fortunately, common sense prevailed: the outlet did not open up and the community had a win. It was a victory for the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIt is really pleasing that under the new governance structure communities in Auckland will finally have a voice. They will have a voice about where alcohol outlets can be placed, where they want their local parks, how they want their libraries to function, and what their concerns are over graffiti. They have not had a voice for many, many years and this governance structure will bring back that voice. Most important, the local community boards under the new governance structure will be permanent. The permanent functions are yet to be decided, but they will be permanent; they will not be there at the whim, and at the beck and call, of local councils, as is the case currently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe new governance structure is all about democracy and it is all about good governance. In 2010 Aucklanders will vote in the most important local body elections ever held in New Zealand. There will be one city, one council, and one mayor. People can vote for a mayor with real power to make a difference. They can vote for councillors to be accountable for all of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002204605b076ec946fc9bc7ce4beb89d94b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204605b076ec946fc9bc7ce4beb89d94b\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to talk today about leadership. I will begin by paying tribute to two extraordinary New Zealand leaders: Helen Clark and Michael Cullen. In particular, I pay tribute to Helen Clark, who made her valedictory speech today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EDuring their time in Parliament we have seen huge transformation in New Zealand. We have become a nuclear-free and independent country in terms of our foreign policy. There has been massive change to the size and role of Government, and significant constitutional evolution. Helen Clark and Michael Cullen led New Zealand with distinction for 9 years, and were ably supported by competent Ministers like Phil Goff and Annette King. That was the first leadership team to really master MMP. It is worth remembering that the Labour Government, in the entire 9 years it was leading New Zealand, never had a majority, either independently or in coalition. Helen Clark and Michael Cullen had to put together each deal, one at a time, and they did it masterfully. They understood MMP and the importance of cross-party negotiations. I think a really important thing to remember is that their leadership style allowed them to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ENow, of course, National is starting to get used to MMP, as its relationship with the M\u0101ori Party shows. It applauds the M\u0101ori Party while sticking the knife into its front! It applauds it while it does that. The sad thing is that when National members did that today, Pita Sharples fell for it. He fell for it. He is so happy having cups of tea with John Key\u2014having little cups of tea and riding around in the BMWs\u2014that he has been sucked in and has fallen for the applause, and he has forgotten the people who put him there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut there is another thing that National has forgotten, and has not caught up on. Helen Clark and Michael Cullen had very high standards for the Ministers in their Cabinet; John Key clearly does not. He has demonstrated in the last few weeks that he has no standards when it comes to the performance and conduct of his Ministers, and no case illustrates that more than the case of Dr Richard Worth. John Key has given the Minister of Internal Affairs three final warnings. This begs the question: what is a final warning if someone gets three of them? How many more warnings will come?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EFirst of all, let us run through the history of the matter. On 30 March, Dr Worth was caught out travelling to India as a Minister and talking up aviation training in New Zealand, all the while operating as a director of New Zealand Aviation Ltd, and holding shares in, and a directorship of, the Indian Overseas Group. So what did John Key say about that? He said it was \u201Cstupid\u201D and \u201Cunwise\u201D, that he had given the Minister a \u201Cbollocking\u201D, and that he did not expect to see the behaviour repeated. A few days later, on 2 April, it was revealed that Dr Richard Worth continued to hold shares in WSD Global Markets, an Indian-focused trade company, and the J P Morgan Indian Investment Trust, despite assurances that he had resigned from \u201Cabsolutely everything\u201D. What did John Key say on 6 April, when he was asked whether Dr Richard Worth had no more chances and no more lifelines? John Key said \u201CYeah.\u201D Then, on the following day, 7 April, what did John Key say when Richard Worth failed to disclose that he was a director of WSD Global Markets, when its associated company in the Cook Islands, WSBC Bank, was being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office? John Key said he had had an \u201Cextensive discussion\u201D with Richard Worth. So his third warning was an \u201Cextensive discussion\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo, first of all, John Key said Dr Worth was stupid and unwise, gave him a bollocking, and said the behaviour was not to be repeated. Then, when asked whether Richard Worth had no more chances and no more lifelines, John Key simply said \u201CYeah.\u201D Then he said he had had an extensive discussion with Mr Worth. Where is the leadership? How many transgressions does it take before John Key will show some leadership and do something about it? John Key\u2019s credibility is now at stake; why will he not take action against Richard Worth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThere is more than just a conflict of interest here. Richard Worth should not be a Minister, because he has done absolutely nothing. I went through Richard Worth\u2019s media statements and written questions to try to find out what he has been busy working on since he has been a Minister. I found that he has done nothing. Apart from going to India and creating a whole host of problems for the Government, Richard Worth has done nothing. So I put a whole bunch of written parliamentary questions to him, but he did not answer them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022be945a837d4b45c28e08483dfc24ad21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be945a837d4b45c28e08483dfc24ad21\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E What a shame it is to hear such barrel-scraping and desperate tactics from a Labour Opposition that is desperately searching for relevance in the current political climate. Today has been such a positive day, and this week is such a historic week, so I say to the Opposition: \u201CMove on!\u201D. They are words those members have heard many times from somebody they are going to miss\u2014\u201CMove on!\u201D. I tell them to take a leaf out of this Government\u2019s positive book. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs I have mentioned, today is a very historic day. It was an honour to be present in the House earlier this evening\u2014in a packed and respectful House, I might add\u2014for the valedictory speech of the Rt Hon Helen Clark. The previous Prime Minister, of course, grew up in the Waikato town of Te Pahu, just west of my electorate, and we wish her well as she moves to New York to take up her role as administrator of the United Nations Development Programme. I will long remember being present today, as she bade farewell and received such a warm tribute from all members, regardless of their political allegiances. As a former history student of the University of Otago, I am also looking forward to the valedictory address of my former lecturer, the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, as he takes his leave at the end of this month. And will not the Labour Party miss them both! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EToday is also historic, as our senior whip noted earlier, for the agreement that has been reached between the National Party and the Green Party. I have little doubt that our two parties will continue to find much to disagree about, especially on social issues, but\u2014and it is a big but\u2014I am delighted by this development as I was by the confidence and supply agreement that our party reached last year with the M\u0101ori Party, as both of those parties have significant pockets of support in the wider electorate, and both bring an important perspective to this House. I say \u201CKia kaha, and thank you to both parties for your confidence and your courage in the steps you have taken.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs an enthusiastic member of National\u2019s Bluegreens policy group, I have long hoped to see greater consensus in our Parliament over crucial environmental concerns, and with today\u2019s memorandum of understanding I think we have taken a very significant step in that direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E It is another sign of the responsiveness and wide focus of the John Key - led Government that such an arrangement is possible. I am pleased that the Greens have adopted the positive stance that we can, and should, work together on environmental matters where we have common goals and compatible policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe immediate focus of that memorandum of understanding will be the pursuit of important measures to improve home insulation, and to promote and achieve greater energy efficiency, and the fair and appropriate regulation of natural health products. These are significant matters. I look forward to the constructive approach of our two parties and our support parties in Government leading to vital steps forward as we tackle some major challenges of our time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the important challenge that councils, iwi, farmers, and other interested parties, including the Government, have committed to in cleaning up a taonga of my region\u2014the Waikato River. It is vital work; it is a challenge that we must accept. I acknowledge the wonderful achievement of Hamilton Boys High School in taming a small part of that river as they stormed to victory for a third consecutive year last Saturday in the Maadi Cup\u2014the feature race of the New Zealand Secondary School Rowing Association. It is a great pleasure to be able to put Hamilton Boys High School on the map in this House tonight. It was tremendous to be present on the bank on Saturday with thousands of others to cheer them on, and I know that there were some other MPs who shared my delight that Hamilton triumphed once again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI point out that we are in a really positive time\u2014it is a historic time. Let us not be sidetracked by the negativity and the barracking\u2014although, quite pleasingly, the members have gone silent in the last couple of minutes on the other side. Let us look at the fact that we have a Government that is rising to the challenges, and is working as constructively as we can and as widely as we can in the best interests of the country\u2014long may that continue. I am very proud to be a part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a4c3f55e6b0b43e4805bb19da8fa75cb\u0022\u003EWanganui District Council (Prohibition of Gang Insignia) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ed8261363c748fdb8b817fd6f30b8c0\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000609\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 25 March.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6218c01547942839533d2e005fb96c3\u0022\u003EClause 5C  Review of bylaws (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00227af0b11bf85846f8ad321258a8ffecc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227af0b11bf85846f8ad321258a8ffecc1\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E My colleagues wish I had more than 2 minutes and 30 seconds to continue speaking about clause 5C, but I am sure that in my limited time I will be able to recap on this particular clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI remind members that this is the clause that covers the review of by-laws made under this legislation. It states: \u201CThe Council must review a bylaw made by it under section 5 no later than 5 years after the date on which the bylaw was made.\u201D I think we have already traversed in this debate a number of concerns that this side of the Chamber has about this particular bill and why we feel that is quite likely a review will be needed significantly earlier than in 5 years. We have already heard about the problems with the definitions under clause 4 that create a situation where there will be a constant need for review, and, indeed, the potential for litigation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ELet us remind ourselves that clause 5 says the power to make by-laws is given to the council, and the council can designate any public place as a specified place for the purpose of the Act, and it is also the clause under which we identify who we think the gangs might be. This is the most problematic clause in this bill for members of the Labour caucus. We believe that clause 5C, which allows for review after 5 years, is, in fact, inadequate. It will be necessary to review this law significantly earlier than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe also know that under clause 5\u2014members will remember this from when we discussed it earlier\u2014the possibility of \u201Cidentifying an organisation, association, or group of persons as a gang\u201D is likely to be the subject of significant litigation. We have already seen earlier in the bill that a gang has been defined as \u201Cany other specified organisation, association, or group of persons identified in a bylaw made under section 5\u201D. So effectively what we are saying is that we are giving carte blanche for the Wanganui District Council to decide what a gang may be. Gangs will then move to change their names and try to find other ways of getting around the definition of \u201Cgang\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOnce again, as we have said before, this bill is giving false hope to the people of Wanganui that the problem of gang intimidation can be dealt with by looking at what people wear rather than at what they do. The review clause, clause 5C, is simply saying that clause 5 is not adequate, because it does not allow for a quick enough review of what we believe to be a very difficult and very unfortunate set of rules and definitions in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Wanganui District Council has, throughout this debate, called upon members of Parliament a number of times to look at their particular concerns. I reiterate, from the Labour side, that we understand the reasons why the people of Wanganui wanted this bill to come forward, and we do understand that Chester Borrows brought this bill forward because of those concerns. But, quite simply, the provisions in clause 5, which are to be reviewed under clause 5C, will not provide the people of Wanganui with that kind of assurance. It will, in fact, provide them with false hope, and we believe that clause 5C is one among many flawed clauses in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u00223eff53a68c344f7bbf7d685319edc068\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223eff53a68c344f7bbf7d685319edc068\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022664235e7d9c04bd29f7ae453f5ee2a45\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e160d6caacd54f33869ff46da1c11cb5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 5C be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 5C agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2278054ce274295a12f6e094ded9c3d\u0022\u003EClause 5D  Further reviews of bylaws every 10 years\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc1b98f811db4d6c9bf65b5775ac4804\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc1b98f811db4d6c9bf65b5775ac4804\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a call on this particular clause because I want to speak in favour of Metiria Turei\u2019s amendment that substitutes the words \u201C5 years\u201D for \u201C10 years\u201D. We have just voted through clause 5C, which provides for a review of the by-laws under this legislation after 5 years. Clause 5D states that from that point on there should be a review no later than 10 years after the last review. For the very same reasons I have already talked about, I believe that Metiria Turei\u2019s amendment is correct. The problems we have identified with this bill will not go away after the first 5-year period. They need to be looked at again and again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E I believe that making criminal law for the specific district of Wanganui will create significant problems for the people of Wanganui and for the courts in the Wanganui region. That is the main reason why I believe we should be reviewing these by-laws not 10 years after the first 5-year period, but, indeed, 5 years after each 5-year period. I think that is only fair for the people of Wanganui. If this bill passes, we need to give the people of Wanganui an assurance that we will continue to keep our eye on this process. I believe we are giving people in Wanganui false hope that the problems caused by gangs in their region will, somehow or other, be eliminated by this particular law. For that reason, we need to continue to review these by-laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EA 10-year period seems to be an excessively long period for those ongoing reviews to take place. Things can change a lot within a 5-year period; we certainly know that the behaviour of gangs can and does alter over time\u2014their tactics change, what they wear changes, and the ways they identify themselves will no doubt change in that 5 to 10-year period. We need to ensure that the by-laws made under this bill are reviewed on a regular basis. Section 5D, as it currently reads, sets the date for the secondary reviews at 10 years after a by-law was last reviewed. Metiria Turei\u2019s amendment substitutes 5 years for 10 years, and I support that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002256f08381ec0642d0a625fff1d81a35db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256f08381ec0642d0a625fff1d81a35db\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will, of course, be voting for Metiria Turei\u2019s amendment to reduce the review period in the Wanganui District Council (Prohibition of Gang Insignia) Bill to 5 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAs the previous speaker, Grant Robertson, said, the bill applies to only one area, Whanganui\u2014with an \u201Ch\u201D. But we have to look seriously at the terms of review, particularly because, looking around this Chamber and thinking of insignia and identification systems for people, we can see that the males seem to be a form of gang, wearing the same sort of identification or insignia. Looking around, I see that every male is wearing one of these jackets and one of these ties. I think they are a gang against the other sex represented in this House, which tends not to be a member of a gang. It may be something that we have to review, particularly in relation to one gender, and a short review period might be appropriate for that. I also see red insignia on this side of the Chamber, and blue insignia on the opposite side\u2014blue boxes. That may mean there are two gangs. There could be confusion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EA serious review is appropriate. I think it would be hypocritical to look at this bill as applying only to Whanganui. It has implicitly, perhaps, more general application, which is why we should review it at frequent intervals, and, hopefully, scrub the whole law off the statute book. It is offensive, it will not solve anything, and it will lead to mayhem. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00221e39801d0f674756a726db8c7b28ecc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e39801d0f674756a726db8c7b28ecc8\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise and contribute further to the discussion around section 5D of the Wanganui District Council (Prohibition of Gang Insignia) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Grant Robertson has raised, there are still questions over why 10 years is the appropriate time period for further review. I want to highlight that section 5C sets out an initial review period of 5 years. I even think that 5 years may, in fact, be quite a prolonged period for an initial review of a by-law. But, after that point, to set in place another 10-year phase of review is quite a lengthy one, particularly given that the other mechanisms for residents of Wanganui to have their say\u2014on whether they perceive that, for instance, the by-law is in the appropriate place, or whether they feel that the appropriate gangs have been captured by the by-law\u2014may be limited. In order to investigate that fully I think it might be useful to go back and look at the preceding period that impacts on the by-law being set.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn the process of setting a by-law, the Wanganui District Council\u2014the provisions are set out in clause 5\u2014may make a by-law designating the public place that the by-law will apply to, and it also at that point identifies the organisation. In doing so, it is required, as set out in the Local Government Act, to go through special consultative procedures to set that by-law, and rightly so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I think it is important that this House consider who in our communities is the most likely to submit on such a process. When a local council goes out and seeks the view of its community in a full consultation period, who is the most likely to have their say during that consultative period? I think that those from the lower socio-economic sections of our community or from socially deprived areas are probably less inclined to have their say in that process. I imagine that there will be very strong advocates in favour of a by-law applying to their particular leafy suburb; that is less likely from people from other particular areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EHaving identified a particular issue, a council goes ahead and sets its by-law. The people who are affected by that by-law will have to wait a good 5 years before they can go back before the council to assess whether the by-law has been working. If that slides through, it will be another 10 years before it comes up again. I think that period is probably too long. I think it is right that Metiria Turei has pointed out that it might be too long, and, in that case, I think it is important that we consider a reduction\u2014a halving\u2014of that period in clause 5D. As all the members of this House know, 10 years is a very long time when it comes to by-laws like this and when it comes to setting down what might be relevant in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ELet us reflect back on where we were politically 10 years ago. In 1999 New Zealand was a very different place: it did not have KiwiSaver, it did not have Working for Families, and it did not have interest-free student loans. It did not have a lot of the genius things that the previous Labour Government brought in. A lot can change in a decade, as we have seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221edff267be7d4519be8fcff6d5068651\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: A lot of improvements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6bb15e0ff3d457bb324000181e79691\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: A lot of improvements, as my colleague rightly points out. I would like to hear from Mr Borrows why 10 years is the secondary review period set out in clause 5D. I would like to hear the rationale behind that. Also, are there any other mechanisms for review in that 10-year period that the local council could apply, or would the community simply have to wait for that review period before it could adjust the two issues that the council has the ability to set?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOne of those issues is the area that is covered, and the other is the gangs themselves that would be covered. I want to reflect on how prominent some of the gangs that we see now were back in 1999. I would question whether the Bloods and the Crips had quite the same presence in our communities 10 years ago as they do now. We have even seen recently in our papers that a gang associated with the Hell\u2019s Angels has shown up in Nelson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbf2ee226e8f4c019310eab312261603\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbf2ee226e8f4c019310eab312261603\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I rise because the previous speaker, Jacinda Ardern, raised a couple of questions that she wanted some sort of clarification on. It is my pleasure to be able to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern talked about where we were 10 years ago, and she asked why there was a 10-year period for further reviews of by-laws. She reflected on the ability of the Wanganui District Council to have another look at a by-law, and asked whether it had to wait 10 years. Well, a number of Labour Party representatives were involved in the select committee process. The most eminent, of course, was Martin Gallagher. We have reflected upon Martin\u2019s contribution on a number of occasions. There was also the Hon David Benson-Pope, the Hon Darren Hughes, and the then Government support member Ron Mark. Clause 5C, which we have just completed debate on, states that the first review will be no later than 5 years after the by-law was made. Clause 5D states that subsequent reviews are to be no later than 10 years after it was made. The ongoing review period of 10 years was not the subject of considerable debate by members on either side of the select committee. The point is made that the review can be done at any time. The Wanganui District Council can review what gangs are covered, and which areas may be designated as prohibited areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI note, too, that there seems to be a little note of cynicism whenever members talk about the various places where gang patches may be prohibited or banned. People always talk about leafy suburbs. There has been some concern that only the upper crust areas of Wanganui would be areas where patches are prohibited. If anybody from the other side of this debate bothered to look at the papers put out by the Wanganui District Council, then he or she would see that places right across Wanganui, including the areas of Aramoho, Castlecliff, Wanganui East, and Gonville, have a resident gang population, and they are areas where gang patches will be prohibited, as well, to prevent intimidation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI think it is also important to note that under section 83 of the Local Government Act 2002, consultation is required as part of a review. Even if the Wanganui District Council decides to make no change, it still has to go through the whole process under section 83. This involves making the proposal available in written form, for a full month, right across the electorate. People are able to uplift it, at no expense, through the courts, libraries, and district council offices and service centres. Wide-ranging consultation takes place with people who want to take part in the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI will make another point. Members have talked about the ability of this legislation to work, and they have made quite scathing comments about whether it will work. It is interesting to note that the Leader of the Opposition said in his initial speech that the only reason Labour would not support the bill at this time is that it wanted to see how the legislation in South Australia was working. He made no suggestion that this legislation would not work for Wanganui. I think that is an important point to note. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EMy final point is a comment on the point raised by the previous speaker, Jacinda Ardern, about the presence of the Bloods and the Crips 10 years ago. Well, the Bloods and the Crips do not have a significant presence in Wanganui, which is where this legislation will apply. The bill names the gangs that do have a presence there. The whole point of the legislation is that if a gang develops a presence in Wanganui in 2 years\u2019 time, or in 18 months, 6 months, or 3 years, the Wanganui District Council can quite quickly move to place it on a parallel schedule under the by-law provision, after going through the process under section 83 of the Local Government Act. It can have a review and make a change at any time it likes, as long as there is a 1-month public review period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Metiria Turei to clause 5D be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003Eto omit \u201C10 years\u201D and substitute \u201C5 years\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022be6102444a504650872eb3adb30aec1d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ff82a53a6538459fad1fc060743426c2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 5D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 5D agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da56de6c2e1c40b09d01aa044d44578e\u0022\u003EClause 5E  Procedure for and nature of review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222bb0b60712f24892b63646b8aa8121f7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 5E be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 5E agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227de8745d3d0e43d4815c56fd267b0b45\u0022\u003EClause 5F  Bylaw not reviewed within specified time frame revoked\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000644\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Metiria Turei to clause 5F be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000645\u0022\u003Eto omit \u201C2 years\u201D and substitute \u201C1 month\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022199db9788b89493b83e0f9b1323b6508\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ffb71f3f30944eb68264225c9420eb10\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 5F be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 5F agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4ad5e561a474997b4ddfef906b5a19c\u0022\u003EClause 6  Prohibition of display of gang insignia\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00223a07c2b73dd5472eaebfb0e355c37fe5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a07c2b73dd5472eaebfb0e355c37fe5\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We are opposed to clause 6. We are opposed to the entire bill, actually. This bill, the Wanganui District Council (Prohibition of Gang Insignia) Bill\u2014and that should be \u201CWhanganui\u201D with an \u201Ch\u201D\u2014is aimed at outlawing the wearing of gang insignia in specified public places. We do not disagree with the goal of cracking down on gangs, but this bill simply will not work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EBanning gang insignia from public places follows an \u201Cout of sight, out of mind\u201D rule. It addresses the issue of what gang members wear, as opposed to what they do, when the very real reality is that it is gang violence and criminal gang activity that require serious attention, not the wardrobes of the gang members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E The bill is built on the premise that \u201Cthe wearing or displaying of gang insignia, particularly in public places, has contributed to an increasing gang problem in the Wanganui district. It sought views from members of the public on this bill by means of a referendum. We understand that the council does not believe that the enactment of this bill would solve the gang problems in Wanganui, but considers that it could form the beginning of a solution.\u201D So the bill \u201Ccould form the beginning of a solution\u201D but \u201Cthe council does not believe that the enactment of this bill would solve the gang problems in Wanganui.\u201D With that in mind, why would we support this bill and, in particular, clause 6? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWhen I read this bill I think of my 21-year-old cousin who, 2 years ago, was involved in a youth gang. I think about the tattoo on the side of his arm, showing the insignia of his youth gang. When I consider this bill in relation to his involvement with that gang I wonder what he and his peers would think of it. As far I am concerned, I think they would go out and get more T-shirts and caps printed with the name of the youth gang on them. It all comes down to status. All this bill does, effectively, is reinforce the status\u2014albeit a negative status\u2014of gangs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EFor many gang members, the naming of their gang in legislation would be perceived as a badge of honour. That is effectively what we are doing as we try to outlaw gang insignia in public places. As I said in my maiden speech, the negative stigma imposed on our youth impacts on their self-perception, but they thrive on it regardless because it is attention none the less. When we say to them that a gang is illegal, we give them attention and some sort of status. Effectively, the bill will do the complete opposite of what it is expected to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIf the Government thinks that this bill, in all reality, is a good idea, then why is it not imposing it on the rest of New Zealand instead of just Wanganui? Obviously, even the Government does not believe that this bill is a good idea; otherwise, it would spread it across the rest of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAs I was saying earlier, the biggest problem with this bill is that it serves as a badge of honour for our gangs by giving them some sort of status. Effectively, the bill will not do anything to stop the gang problem, because it does not address what the gangs are doing wrong in terms of criminal activity; all it does is address the issue of their wardrobes. Thank you very much, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f67753641cf74226a8af342ab806e1dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f67753641cf74226a8af342ab806e1dd\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on clause 6, which states: \u201CNo person may display gang insignia at any time in a specified place in the district.\u201D, and makes one of the penalties for that a fine of $2,000. I thought I would consider some of the innocent members of the public who could, if this legislation is used incorrectly, be impacted by it. When I wondered what would be a good example to draw on, I thought of the ACT Party. I know that Mr Garrett from ACT has some strong views on this bill, and I wondered whether the ACT Party could be impacted by it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe bill states that people may not \u201Cdisplay gang insignia at any time in a specified place in the district\u201D, so let us think, first of all, about the definition of gang insignia. Clause 4(1) states that gang insignia \u201C(a) means a sign, symbol, or representation commonly displayed to denote membership of, an affiliation with, or support for a gang; and (b) includes any item of clothing to which a sign, symbol, or representation \u2026 is attached\u201D. Let us think, for example, about Rodney Hide\u2019s bright yellow jacket. If we take out the word \u201Cgang\u201D, we see clearly that Rodney Hide\u2019s bright yellow jacket meets the definition of gang insignia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ELet us consider the definition of a gang. Clause 5(3) states that a gang \u201Chas the following characteristics: (a) a common name or common identifying signs, symbols, or representations;\u201D. Well, the ACT Party clearly has those, does it not? It has a common name, identified signs and symbols, and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EUnder clause 5(3)(b) a gang is a group whose \u201Cmembers, associates, or supporters individually or collectively promote, encourage, or engage in a pattern of criminal activity.\u201D I thought that the ACT Party could not be covered by that definition, but actually it can, because Rodney Hide went on TV not long ago and encouraged members of the public to break the law. Is that not right? I cannot remember the exact provision of the Building Act he was referring to, but he was encouraging people to breach the Building Act. So Rodney Hide suddenly meets all the criteria for the ACT Party to be deemed to be a gang.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e818e0d02c17473cb38867992ff11c64\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s vote for it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f340c78d8a5455a93f532ff093799af\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe we should vote for it\u2014I do not know. That is a worry\u2014who else could be covered by this bill? Just today, or maybe yesterday, Kate Wilkinson encouraged retailers to breach the law. So suddenly National meets all the requirements to be deemed to be a gang. Let us look at some of the penalties that could be imposed. Those members could be arrested on the spot for wearing their gang patch. If National members wore their National Party rosettes in Wanganui and went to an area where gang patches were prohibited, they could potentially be arrested. We might think that that could not happen, because those members would know they were not allowed to wear their National Party rosettes in the specified places in case they were deemed to be gang members. Clause 5A, \u201CSignposting of specified places\u201D, states that those places must be signposted. But as my colleague Grant Robertson pointed out earlier in the debate, those signposts will end up taking pride of place in gang headquarters around the country, so there will be no signposting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe other way we could find out about specified places would be to go to the council building to inspect the by-laws, which this bill allows people to do. But as I pointed out the other day, in order to go to the council building to inspect the by-laws, the members would first have to go into the area where they were prohibited from wearing their gang insignia. Suddenly, our ACT and National colleagues who were wearing their insignia\u2014and who met all the requirements in this bill to deem them to be gang members\u2014would be breaking the law by going into a specified area in order to find out what the law was in the first place. This really highlights, does it not, the risks in making these kinds of laws on an ad hoc basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EFundamentally, the National Government knows that this is a bad bill, because we are discussing it only as a local bill on members\u2019 day. National does not support this bill enough to make it a Government bill that applies to the whole country. If National members thought that this bill was worthy of pursuit, they would pick it up. This would not be just a local bill; it would apply to the whole country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002218882f5a2c7343229700f7ebb308b8f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 6 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 6 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002256976f4f7ffb4ae597d1d1a44d6d1b53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256976f4f7ffb4ae597d1d1a44d6d1b53\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Since the Committee stage debate began a week or two back, there has been a very significant development that affects this bill. We have already debated the title clause, but since that time the New Zealand Geographic Board has agreed and proclaimed that \u201CWanganui\u201D should be spelt \u201CWhanganui\u201D. It is important that this bill, if it goes through\u2014and, of course, I hope that it does not\u2014should at least have the correct name in the title. I seek the leave of the Committee to move an amendment to the title clause to insert an \u201Ch\u201D after the \u201Cw\u201D in the first word of the title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eafe8291f304275a6b2bf71158967d2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to insert an \u201Ch\u201D into \u201CWanganui\u201D. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022511adcde8f874cdf81898fe7aa96372c\u0022\u003EClause 7  Powers of arrest and seizure in relation to persons displaying gang insignia\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd1e6a1083bb4417ad080872bfa8d7be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd1e6a1083bb4417ad080872bfa8d7be\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E In this debate on clause 7 I want to draw attention to some concerns, which have already been expressed in this debate, about the extent of the powers of arrest and seizure in relation to persons displaying gang insignia. As many Labour speakers have already made clear in this debate, we certainly do not support gangs. We think that gangs are a blight on our society. But this bill does little to deal with what gangs do; it simply deals with what gangs wear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EClause 7\u2014and, indeed, clause 8\u2014is where we get into the question of what the police may do in terms of how they arrest people, and what they may do to seize and remove gang insignia. I think this raises some concerns about the way in which this clause is laid out, but what concerns me is the fact that this bill will be able to pass through the House because of the support of the ACT Party. I thought that the ACT Party members would be leaping to their feet when we came to clause 7, because this is the kind of freedom-type issue\u2014the freedom to wear things, the freedom to move about the place; in this case, Wanganui\u2014that I thought the ACT Party was founded on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ERodney Hide, in the first reading of this bill, touched on some of the issues that are covered by clause 7, and I quote him: \u201CFreedom is about the individual, and the measure of a free society is how we move to protect the minority from the majority. If the majority thinks that people wearing glasses should be locked up, that is not freedom or democracy;\u201D. I certainly would share those thoughts as a man who wears glasses, but the point Rodney Hide was making was that freedoms and things that were important to the ACT Party were the kinds of reasons why he opposed this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ERemarkably, that is no longer the case. The ACT Party is now in favour of this bill, a bill that Rodney Hide called rubbish. We now know why the ACT Party is in favour of this bill and why its members appear to have traded away their beliefs and their principles about freedom. It is because they have done a deal about the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D bill. They have done a deal with National\u2014or they are hoping to do a deal with National\u2014to move the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D bill through the House. We have already seen National send it off to a select committee, so that was stage one of the deal. Rodney Hide told people who watched the Back Benchers show on TVNZ 7 that a deal had been done to allow ACT to support this bill. The last time we were here, I think, David Garrett told us the bill was nonsensical but that ACT would still support it. That is a remarkable position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe principles about freedom and about the ability for people to move around the district where they live have now been completely ignored by the ACT Party. ACT members have simply moved on from that and have said that they will not stand up for their principles. They will not look at a clause like clause 7 and ask about issues of freedom and the movement of people, and they will not ask what the consequences are beyond Wanganui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe really important point here is that because we are making this law on a district-by-district basis, we are, at the moment, looking at an issue like freedom of movement\u2014an incredibly basic right\u2014just in relation to Wanganui. We are not thinking about the wider consequences of making criminal law in this way. We are not thinking about what these things actually mean. We know that David Garrett does not much believe in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. He says that we have got too hung up on people\u2019s rights. But even he could see that this particular part of the bill was flawed. But, no, ACT has decided that it will flip-flop and simply take a deal whereby it will vote for this bill in the hope that it will get its \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI can quote what Mr Hide told the Back Benchers show. He said: \u201CWe voted for it, this bill, because what it\u2019s going to do is get \u2018three strikes\u2019 through this Parliament.\u201D Those are Rodney Hide\u2019s exact words. Shame on the ACT Party for turning its back on its principles! Sir Roger Douglas is here. He founded the ACT Party, and even though I disagreed virulently with what the party stood for, it at least I knew what it stood for. It stood for some principles about freedom\u2014freedom of choice and freedom of association\u2014and here we are debating clause 7\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7b20828ee874f7dbf8766df9355a361\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Clause 7 is quite specific about matters to be addressed. We have had a wide-ranging dissertation about ACT\u2019s principles. I ask that you bring the speaker to clause 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6ed9eb5cef345788ad6b91b3b179b34\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a valid point. The Committee stage is a clause by clause debate. It is about the nuts and bolts of a bill. Freedoms, important as they are, are things that one might want to bump up against once or twice in a speech, but this debate is about the nuts and bolts. This is not a part by part debate. It is a clause by clause debate, and it should be about the nuts and bolts of the wording of the clause. I invite the member to continue. He has 27 seconds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d83947270885405cb20cd44fecc835c5\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I will make every one of them worthwhile, Mr Chair. Clause 7 is indeed about the powers of arrest and seizure in relation to persons displaying gang insignia. Important issues in terms of rights have been raised, and I would have expected the ACT Party members to be on their feet immediately. But, clearly, they have traded their principles away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u002245349e80ca3041a095963533ae537a0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245349e80ca3041a095963533ae537a0f\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to stand and take a call on clause 7 of the Wanganui District Council (Prohibition of Gang Insignia) Bill\u2014a short call, hopefully, as we do not want to hold this up any more than it needs to be, but I want to follow on from my colleague Grant Robertson. This clause deals with \u201CPowers of arrest and seizure in relation to persons displaying gang insignia\u201D. This is an issue that the ACT Party should be very concerned about. This is really where the rubber hits the road when it comes to the freedoms that my colleague was talking about. All that I can deduce, as my colleague Chris Hipkins said when he referred to the ACT Party fitting the description of a criminal gang under this legislation, is that, just like a criminal gang, its members have all been pulled into line, they have all been beaten around the chops, and not one of them is allowed to say what he or she really thinks. The irony of that, perhaps, should not be lost on members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThis is a very important clause\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2d9b06bb28a4febbc309ff7c993d420\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why doesn\u2019t Roger Douglas tell us what he thinks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022403a3e9971bc4884abf4d3a4213dce2b\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he has only one speech and he gave it during the general debate, so we should not expect that he is going to stand up and take a call on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E In relation to powers of arrest and seizure, clause 7(1) states: \u201CA constable may, without warrant,\u2014(a) arrest a person whom the constable has good cause to suspect\u201D may be breaching the Act. This is a very extensive power to give to the police. Let us look at south-east Los Angeles. A lot of people have talked about different gangs, but what people perhaps do not know when they talk about the Crips and the Bloods is that in fact there are East Side Crips and West Side Crips. When we talk about displaying gang insignia and we go back to the definition of gang insignia in clause 4(1), we see that paragraph (a) states that gang insignia \u201Cmeans a sign, symbol, or representation commonly displayed to denote membership of, an affiliation with,\u201D a gang. I tell members that Labour members have had a photo emailed through to us where the Minister for Social Development and Employment is doing the West Side Crips sign. This is a hand gesture that represents a criminal gang, the West Side Crips, and I want to know whether\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250562d7d4d3e48619b90ef59265ec6cd\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: A gang insignia!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c63b1f6d14456799084b634e88dd20\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that gang insignia would be captured under the legislation. Obviously, a hand gesture that represented a criminal gang falls under the ambit of this legislation. It would be interesting to see that gang insignia being \u201Cdestroyed or otherwise disposed of\u201D\u2014and it is gang insignia. It is the Minister for Social Development and Employment in the photo. I notice that the person who has emailed it to us has blurred out other faces to protect the innocent, but the Minister is clearly doing the West Side Crips insignia. This is very interesting and it comes to the heart of why Labour opposes this legislation. We are really getting into bad law when we have to have discussions of this nature, but they are very real discussions. The member in the chair, Chester Borrows, has said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265df06a385084cf3b2b0aca7cc2bd9d8\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: What about the law of common sense?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229026bf10dd274f8e98cac5c7d21e1279\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: What was that, sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a81250bf850447b68f3132ab4593d70c\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: What about the law of common sense?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfa23e84515449a78a450be455025350\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: The law of common sense! Mr Paul Quinn wants to lecture us all on the law of common sense. I look forward to his taking the next call so that he can, in his usual erudite way, lecture members on what he believes to be the law of common sense. I think we would all benefit greatly, I say to Mr Quinn, from his expertise displayed every day in this Chamber on that particular issue. We look forward to that greatly, I say to Mr Quinn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that we have raised\u2014and we have raised it consistently\u2014in terms of powers of arrest and seizure is what happens when a person is in an area and has no reasonable way of knowing that he or she is not allowed to wear gang insignia. The signs will go missing. They will be put in gang headquarters and probably student flats as well. They will be stolen. So someone walking into an area where a constable has powers of arrest and seizure for wearing gang insignia might not even know that he or she is breaking the law. Under this Act, those people have no defence. In fact, under section 5A(2), already agreed to by National and ACT, if a sign is not up and someone does not know he or she is breaking the law, it is not a defence for him or her to say \u201CI didn\u2019t realise this was a part of Wanganui I wasn\u2019t allowed to be breaking this by-law in.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EHow can the ACT Party support that provision? How can the ACT Party say that, when there are no signs telling people they are breaking the law, because they have been taken down and hung up in gang headquarters? Those signs are the only way, under this bill, that people can know they are breaking the law, unless they go down to the council and check every single by-law on arrival in Wanganui to make sure they are not breaching any of them during their visit. Of course, everyone does that when they go for a holiday in lovely Wanganui! How can the ACT Party support a provision of arrest and seizure for someone who has not even been told he or she is breaking the law? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAll I can say\u2014and I will come back to what my colleague Chris Hipkins said\u2014is that the ACT Party is truly behaving like a gang on this bill. ACT members are not allowed to speak freely and they are not allowed to separate themselves out from the rest of their gang. If they do, they are given a bollocking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u002287708ba553554a69891f5ce7be2856b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287708ba553554a69891f5ce7be2856b3\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a64eb1c1612944acb92e9c1263fdcab8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002205ff51b069934dfe891ea2a3ad62f573\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 7 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 7 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7bd4557abb549bcae35b571f73d9c33\u0022\u003EClause 8  Power to stop vehicle to exercise powers of arrest or seizure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223f9448571a6a4068aa26946037faa1df\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 8 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 8 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002226518a6bb53047eeb756e48ce2ed6baf\u0022\u003EClause 9  Laying of information for offence under this Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224b2877660bd54dbaa4a5299e442a51a0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 9 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 9 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000692\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000693\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002233da7aeb6f584b24843c134ad24fc859\u0022\u003EEden Park Trust Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e079afd260674b5d9ebf0f89af554f9e\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f203caee10f1456fb35eff92053641bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f203caee10f1456fb35eff92053641bf\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of Hon Murray McCully (National\u2014East Coast Bays): I move, That the Eden Park Trust Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I will move that the bill be considered by the Government Administration Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis bill is promoted by the Eden Park Trust Board. It introduces changes to the governance arrangements for Eden Park, New Zealand\u2019s largest stadium and one with a rich sporting and social history and an iconic international reputation. Eden Park has been named as the finals venue for the Rugby World Cup in 2011, and it is likely to be included in the venues for New Zealand\u2019s co-hosting of the Cricket World Cup in 2015. But it had more humble beginnings. In 1899 the Kingsland Cricket Club leased a large space, cleared it of rocks, and used the space for friendly games. The Eden District Cricket Club purchased 15 acres in 1903, and the park was formally opened on 9 November 1903.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E The land was in constant danger of flooding at that time, and was often completely submerged. Difficulties with the site continued, and in 1910 the Auckland Cricket Association purchased the grounds with funds guaranteed by a number of Auckland gentlemen, who became the registered proprietors of the park and, in essence, the first trustees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIn 1914 the Auckland Rugby Football Union entered into a 21-year lease of the park for every football season, and hence began the joint use of the ground. The inception of the lease allowed the drainage to be improved and the original grandstands to be built, one by Auckland rugby and one by Auckland cricket. The stand built by Auckland cricket remains today, and overlooks the outer oval. In 1924 the trustees, the Auckland Cricket Association, and the Auckland Rugby Football Union entered into an agreement whereby the beneficial interests of the two sporting bodies were recognised by the trustees. A board of control comprising representatives of the three parties was set up to manage the park. In 1955 the Eden Park Trust Act was passed, giving the complex arrangements the force of law, and it provided the basis on which the developments over the past 50 years were instigated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EOver the years the park has been the venue for many notable events far too numerous for me to name today. Some of the highlights have been the New Zealand cricket team\u2019s first-ever test victory in 1957, not to mention its lowest-ever score, against England, 2 years earlier; the 1992 Cricket World Cup opening match and semi-final; the All Blacks\u2019 first Bledisloe Cup match in 1931; and the unforgettable Springbok test of 1956 in front of over 61,000 spectators. For me, the favourite is, of course, the victory in the final of the first Rugby World Cup in 1987. The park has also been the venue for the 1950 British Empire Games, the 1988 Rugby League World Cup final, hockey tests against India and Pakistan, football internationals, and athletics events, including the Auckland school athletics championships from 1939 to 1965. In addition, the park has been used for public events, including royal visits and religious events. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI now come to the Eden Park Trust Amendment Bill, which makes amendments to the Eden Park Trust Act 1955 to implement new governance arrangements for Eden Park. In order to meet the International Rugby Board\u2019s requirements as a finals venue for the Rugby World Cup, it is necessary to redevelop the park by expanding its capacity, so as to accommodate over 60,000 spectators for the Rugby World Cup in 2011. The Crown and the Eden Park Trust Board have agreed on matters relating to the funding and management of the redevelopment and the establishment of a new structure for the long-term governance of Eden Park. The trustees, the Auckland Cricket Association, and the Auckland Rugby Football Union recognise the significant financial contribution that is being made to the redevelopment of the park by this Government, and they have agreed to open the governance and use of the park to the wider community, in partnership with Auckland cricket and Auckland rugby. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe new governance structure will ensure the recognition of the interests and rights of the park\u2019s beneficiary bodies, the public ownership interest in the park, and the desire for broader community use to be made of the venue. A trust deed has been prepared, and it sets out the detail of the new governance arrangements. The deed is modelled on that which is in place for the Westpac Stadium right here in Wellington. The deed is incorporated as a schedule of the bill, and it sets out the new constitution, functions, and powers of the Eden Park Trust Board. The trust deed broadens both the community involvement in the ground and the park\u2019s uses. It makes provision for five Crown-appointed trustees from the wider Auckland region, and one each from the Auckland Rugby Football Union and the Auckland Cricket Association, together with two appointments from the current trust board. After 3 years the current board members will be replaced by one each from the Auckland Rugby Football Union and the Auckland Cricket Association. The deed also includes provisions to deal with the transition from the current trust board to the newly established board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe redevelopment of Eden Park is on schedule to be completed by October 2010. It is highly desirable that the new board of trustees is in place as early as possible, to enable appropriate governance and management operations to be in place prior to the completion of the redevelopment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI pay tribute to the current trustees of the Eden Park Trust Board, who are promoting this bill, and to the members of the board of control, former and current trustees, and members of both Auckland cricket and Auckland rugby who have, for over a century, given their time unselfishly and been responsible for developing the park. Through their endeavours and their commitment, Auckland has a sporting stadium that is internationally recognised. Eden Park has played host to a wide variety of sporting and other events and brought a large economic benefit to Auckland, and it has achieved all of that as an independent trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1cf64a7da424bb48a74b44be3b870ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1cf64a7da424bb48a74b44be3b870ec\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am eminently qualified to speak on the Eden Park Trust Amendment Bill, which Labour supports\u2014I live only 10 minutes away from the stadium. But I was just wondering who that last speaker was. Does anyone know? He looked very familiar. Is he a councillor? [Interruption] So he is an Auckland city councillor. It is the Richard Worth approach to dealing with political issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be67809052cb45259f06c1216677fa55\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Conflicts of interest!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5c505a123a1487d81498c63adc22bc4\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know whether a trustee of the Eden Park Trust Board deals with conflicts of interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is non-controversial. The bill is designed to clean up the trust deed, to give the trustees flexibility to deal with the run-up to the Rugby World Cup in 2011, to change and amend, as necessary, the governance arrangements of the trust deed, and to obviate the need for the trust to come back to Parliament whenever it needs to make a change to the deed. It is very important. It gives the trust board the flexibility it needs. In future, the trustees will be able to agree amongst themselves on the changes they need, and those amendments can be confirmed by regulations made by the Governor-General by Order in Council. The bill gives the board an important level of flexibility as it prepares for the world cup, and any potential legal bottlenecks will, effectively, be removed in advance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting provisions of the bill is that the trustees are not personally liable under the bill; it extends protection to all the trustees, past and present. Interestingly, it does not include any event or circumstance that could have been avoided by the trustees exercising a reasonable standard of care. Presumably, that means that if the trust board gets David Beckham to come and play a game of football, and the board loses a pile of money over it, it will be liable for that debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe real reason this bill is important is that the New Zealand economy is very, very dependent on big international events coming to New Zealand, and we have got a lot riding on the Rugby World Cup in 2011 in terms of our tourism and also our national self-esteem. Given some of the dire predictions about how long it will take for our economy to climb out of this global recession, and given the lack of any decent stimulus policies from this National Government, we really have to make sure that we are as well positioned\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1a1e3453b9a4ea0a452509db03a6733\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Come on! That was a low blow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bba835a2f5394522a314c5d1a0bd6d8e\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as well positioned, I say to Mr Quinn, as we possibly can be in the international tourism market. We get only one shot at the world cup. It is absolutely important that we get it right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E So let us just pause for a moment and think about what it is worth to us for this event to go ahead, and to do so successfully. The economic analysts project that it will be worth $476 million in direct additional expenditure in New Zealand outside of Auckland, an additional $262 million in expenditure within Auckland, additional GDP in the New Zealand economy of $507 million, and additional GDP in the Auckland economy of $240 million. There is a huge amount at stake\u2014something like $1.5 billion. We have to see this measure from a wider perspective. It is about the future of our economy, the future of our tourism market, and the crucial role that the Rugby World Cup plays in that. It is like the Olympics; it is essential that we make a favourable impression on the many thousands of visitors who come to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWhen I think about tourism and how well we are placed, I have to say it reminds me of how little progress we have made\u2014in fact, how far back we have gone\u2014in the last few months, since the election. There has been a complete failure to reposition New Zealand\u2019s tourism industry as a sustainable industry. I am reminded of the complete failure by the Minister of Tourism to rebut the claims that were made as part of the air miles debate in Great Britain\u2014one of our most important markets for tourism. It was a terrible shame to see the Minister of Tourism completely fall into a trap and argue how badly poor little New Zealand had been dealt to by the people involved in the air miles debate. Strongly positioning New Zealand\u2019s tourism industry as sustainable would have been a much more intelligent approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to discuss another aspect of Eden Park for a moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E According to a clipping from the Australian newspaper\u2014and some members in the House may have heard this story\u2014when workmen were demolishing the main stand in preparation for the current upgrade, they found a secret escape route that had been built for the Springbok rugby team in 1981. For the sake of members on the other side of the House, I probably should explain what the 1981 Springbok Tour was. Most of the members on the other side do not even know what happened in 1981, let alone how they felt about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a33351c66fd242808dc69c82d771f93e\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Some of us had a choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221958f6e67b24318a8f2188258f80d81\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: For the information of Mr Quinn, it was all about a rugby team from apartheid South Africa coming to play rugby, in defiance of an international boycott. Apparently, a local builder was called in, only days before the famous flour bomb test at Eden Park, to build a series of escape hatches. He built a hatch up through the roof of the changing rooms. He cut holes and built a series of interconnecting doors between the offices. The escape route was built to spirit the Springbok team out of the stadium, if things got too hot and heavy for them, with the protesters and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EToday we can see, in a wonderful little echo down through history, that it would be great for the National Government to have a similar kind of escape hatch so that its members could scuttle away from the public outrage at all the election promises that have been broken in the last few months. One that springs to mind today\u2014it is at the very, very top of our minds\u2014is the complete abdication of any moral commitment to their election campaign promises to consult the people of Auckland about the findings of the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227646bcaf5cf4422187fd8dd1ed36820c\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: What happened to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d34a5574f7f4f4f85fbad313c63b0db\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing. They had no answer this afternoon in the House. They had nothing to say on this issue, even though it is there in black and white in their election manifesto. There are many, many more broken promises, and I want to touch on just half a dozen of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe National Party said it would clean up the streets. Its members made a huge fuss about their 100-day plan and they rushed all sorts of legislation through under urgency. What was the ultimate result? I can tell members that the Bail Amendment Bill, the Sentencing Amendment Bill, and the Education (National Standards) Amendment Bill amounted to nothing more than window dressing. I have to be honest and say that it was extremely disappointing to see that kind of performance during National\u2019s first 100 days. National promised a very dramatic 100 days. It used urgency. It broke every democratic and constitutional convention in the book by not submitting any of that legislation to select committee scrutiny, and not allowing the public to make submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022009d724082a84d4994086a275a8e80de\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: No regulatory impact statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224535dd9354dd4a339a1e6eaec3325eb3\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No, none at all. It is extraordinary. If National members really had wanted to do something of substance on law and order, they would have brought into effect the Order in Council of Labour\u2019s 2007 legislation requiring that a minimum of two-thirds of a sentence be served before parole was granted. But no. What did we see instead? We saw window dressing and small ideological gestures. Instead of making the ridiculous claim that murder and other crime are out of control\u2014and we now know that is a complete lie; anyone who saw the information in the New Zealand Herald on Tuesday knows that the murder rate has been cut in half in the last two decades\u2014they might have done something constructive, like putting in place Labour\u2019s early intervention initiatives to stop child abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThat is rather a long way of saying that Labour supports the first reading of the Eden Park Trust Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229791bb8a6c094dfb9f9870f50dec773b\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: What does it do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236b2284d2c4644d4bbb060e6c05decdc\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It is a very important amendment that allows the trustees of the Eden Park Trust Board to make the amendments to their trust deed that they need to make, without having to come back to Parliament and endure any more speeches like this. Labour supports this bill. It is non-controversial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba0be7b755a486496de2a5deef17769\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I remind members that the next speeches are to be 5 minutes in length.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00225db89509dbfb4bce9018cdda721ef078\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225db89509dbfb4bce9018cdda721ef078\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E That was an entirely forgettable contribution from an entirely forgettable member. In fact, I do not even recall that member\u2019s name. But that is not surprising, because the contribution was not worthy of the Eden Park Trust Amendment Bill. It came as a complete surprise to me, at the end of that forgettable member\u2019s dissertation, to discover that in fact Labour is supporting this bill. That speech was hardly an indication of that, so if that is the way that the Labour caucus members are going to behave from now on, we just have to wonder, do we not, about how they will perform in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. It is a bill introduced by the Hon Murray McCully, and I will dignify this bill with a decent speech on it and some good debate on the topic, unlike the previous member, who rambled through some sort of strange Labour Party speech that was a mystery to me, anyway. Most important, I think, the bill was excellently supported by my friend and colleague, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, who is also from Auckland. The bill amends the Eden Park Trust Act 1955, which established the Eden Park Trust Board. Invested in that trust is the property that is Eden Park. It is a condition of an agreement that Eden Park is to hold the Rugby World Cup final in 2011. That is, of course, exciting for Auckland and for New Zealand, but in order for that to happen, Eden Park needs to be upgraded in order to hold a capacity of 60,000 people. This is a significant event for New Zealand and a significant event for Auckland, so Eden Park needs to be ready for it, and so does the legislative framework that supports that. It is a shame that the previous speaker did not really touch on these important issues; he was too busy being a Labour member. But there you are! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIn 2007 the Crown entered into an agreement with the Eden Park Trust Board that it would underwrite $190 million for the redevelopment of Eden Park. Of course, the Government\u2019s proviso was that changes were to be made to make the park\u2019s trust board and management structure more representative of the public and more representative of the whole region. Because the trust had been created by statute, of necessity, therefore, it can be changed only by statute. So the purpose of this bill is to amend the Eden Park Trust Act of 1955, and to introduce the new Eden Park Trust deed, which is a much more representative trust arrangement that will allow us to meet our obligations relating to the 2011 Rugby World Cup final. The other purpose of the bill is to empower the Governor-General, by Order in Council, to amend the schedule containing the trust deed, to give effect to any validly made amendment to the trust deed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe bill will facilitate the creation of a redeveloped stadium with a capacity of 60,000 people, which is exciting news for Auckland, and I do hope that that number of tickets will be sold for the Rugby World Cup final. This bill implements an agreement between the Crown, the existing Eden Park Trust Board, the Auckland Cricket Association, and also the Auckland Rugby Football Union. The new structure will ensure recognition of the interests and rights of the beneficiaries of the trust, the public\u2019s ownership interest in the park, and the community\u2019s interest in using and benefiting from the park. The redevelopment of Eden Park is to be completed by October 2010, in time for the Rugby World Cup in 2011. It will provide many benefits. Some of those are regional; some of those provide recreational benefits. There will also be local community benefits arising from this redevelopment, but perhaps more significantly today, the benefits are to the Rugby World Cup to be held in 2011. The Rugby World Cup is, of course, one of the world\u2019s premier sports events. The spotlight will be on New Zealand and New Zealand sport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EOn that basis, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090408078c26649a834da4ae7966edf7f8d493000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"