"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224bc3194f69574ba8b53b133a60135830\u0022\u003ETuesday, 28 April 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6f1fdb09c734a7f802c8794f5744a42\u0022\u003ETuesday, 28 April 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0bfba095f084470979942cf02e6ac86\u0022\u003EResignations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022530d75229a9c482cb4aabc3810ae2860\u0022\u003ERt Hon Helen Clark, Member for Mt Albert\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b552081b0514482ba3b09f000ff86bd8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Helen Clark, resigning her seat in the House with effect at midnight on Saturday, 18 April 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022f43bd092f5f0468085840e83d06e9f55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f43bd092f5f0468085840e83d06e9f55\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to advise the House that I have received a letter from the \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff035905303a42e697d658652b1ea58a\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be72b9989faa4a7197f626a3bb899210\u0022\u003ESri Lanka\u2014Leave to Move Motion Without Notice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9aa3bcc7fa54e63ab7d07163605b821\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9aa3bcc7fa54e63ab7d07163605b821\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to move a motion without notice and without debate on the dire humanitarian situation in northern Sri Lanka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d613b7681f834e5bae61b6db27d134b5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022262b1a38c40b4758b8f6cecfa012c3b4\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224ae19f9102e84cb0b30ac5053d8d11ad\u0022\u003ESwine Flu\u2014New Zealand Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7d7e1afdb444ec5bd3d73e961764109\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7d7e1afdb444ec5bd3d73e961764109\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to make a ministerial statement under Standing Order 347 in relation to the global influenza situation and the responses here in New Zealand. As has been said, this is a time for concern and caution, not alarm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EOn Saturday morning Air New Zealand flight NZ1 arrived in Auckland from Los Angeles at 5 a.m. On board was a school group from Rangitoto College travelling home from a trip to Mexico. Several of the students had flu symptoms. Their teacher insisted they see their doctors. Just a few hours later, at 12.30 p.m., one of those general practitioners contacted the Auckland Regional Public Health Service. The Auckland public health response centre was activated by 3 p.m., and by 6 p.m. a team of nurses had been assembled, equipped, and were out assessing the Rangitoto group. All were treated with Tamiflu and isolated with their families by 10 o\u2019clock that night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E The Ministry of Health activated its coordination centre on that same day in accordance with the emergency Influenza Pandemic Action Plan, and the national Tamiflu stock at Middlemore Hospital was made available. On Sunday night, testing revealed that 10 of the Rangitoto College group had influenza A; swine flu is a subset of influenza A. Because of their recent travel to Mexico and a greater sense of caution, ministry officials decided that the group should be treated as probable cases of swine flu. Our health services\u2019 response was rapid, thorough, and appropriate for the level of risk apparent at that time. The work of the past 4 years, preparing for a situation such as this, needs to be acknowledged. It is important to be clear that there are no confirmed cases of swine flu in New Zealand, but I am advised that at this point health authorities are operating as though there are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe Rangitoto College samples are now being tested for H1N1 swine flu at the World Health Organization laboratory in Melbourne. To date, the Rangitoto College group\u2019s flu symptoms have been mild, and all 10 are on the road to recovery. This is consistent with the pattern experienced so far in other countries outside of Mexico. Public health officials tell me that they have contact-traced almost all of the passengers on flight NZ1 who disembarked in Auckland. They have all been medically assessed, offered Tamiflu as a precaution, and asked to stay at home. Three students from Northcote College with flu-like symptoms, who also visited Mexico and returned home later that Saturday morning, have tested negative for influenza A. Public health officials were able to tell them and their families late last night that they are no longer at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003ESince Sunday night, there have been doctors and nurses at Auckland Airport meeting all international flights arriving from North America, and passengers are being assessed. I am advised that as a result of the increasing international spread of swine flu, the Ministry of Health has asked that a statement providing information and advice on swine flu should be read on all incoming flights into New Zealand. In addition, the ministry has requested a travel health notice is given to all incoming passengers on arrival. Regional public health services around the country are supporting this effort. At last count, in addition to the 10 Rangitoto College students, 56 people are being monitored around New Zealand. Those suspected cases are being tested to see whether they too have influenza A. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe key public health message is this: people who have been in Mexico or the United States in the past fortnight and have flu-like symptoms should contact their general practitioner or a health professional. The Ministry of Health says that if people have flu-like symptoms and they have not been to Mexico or the United States in the past fortnight, then they should treat any flu symptoms as normal seasonal influenza\u2014they should do what they would normally do. I have been advised in the past few minutes that later today the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade will be upgrading its travel advisory to suggest that people defer non-essential travel to Mexico. The existing health measures are fully justified. Officials are ready for any escalation in the domestic or international swine flu situation. As this rapidly changing situation evolves, updates are being issued and press briefings are being held. This is a matter that the Government and officials are treating with the utmost caution and concern. This is a threat that New Zealand has planned for, and many of the best people in the New Zealand health services are working night and day to protect the health of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002247eee1662dd84ac49af4d744235f81cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247eee1662dd84ac49af4d744235f81cc\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I begin by assuring the Minister and the House that this is not a time for any political point-scoring when we have such an important issue facing our nation. I wish all speed to those who work in the health sector, and, of course, a return to full health for all those who are potentially affected. Those who work in the health sector are vital, and should be valued at all times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to hear the Minister acknowledge the work that the previous Government started on pandemic planning in 2002, with Operation McGill in 2007 involving the whole emergency management health sector. We increased the public Tamiflu stocks from around 800,000 to 1.2 million in March 2007, from coverage of 20 percent of the population to 30 percent\u2014a fact that I recall the current Minister of Health criticising at the time. He now understands the importance of that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI am concerned about the vulnerability of the entire spectrum of the health services under the current proceedings. Pandemic modelling and the rehearsal have shown time after time that hospital-based services can quickly become overwhelmed if we do not ensure that community-based and home-based services are supported and are in place. We know, from the district health boards\u2019 latest plans, that those are the very services that are being cut. The services that make the delivery of a pandemic response possible are the ones under threat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI also remind the Minister of Health of the comments from Ian Powell, the executive director of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists, when he talked about the range of staff who are critical in the health sector. He said: \u201CIt is one of the major concerns of our members, who would rather be underpaid specialists than overpaid secretaries.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ETo all the health workers, I say the focus and intensity of this work is significant and will be supported, I am sure, by every party in Parliament. I thank the Minister for the acknowledgment of the work over the last 6 years. I also thank him for his generous offer of a briefing on this issue. That is appreciated by me, as well. I recommend respectfully that he reflect now on how critical the support workers in the health system, who are otherwise often known as backroom workers, are to the delivery of health services for all New Zealanders and ensure that they continue to be valued for the critical role that they play in delivering health services in our nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d99da1d86f51491f8d1c63f42106aa74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d99da1d86f51491f8d1c63f42106aa74\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to begin by joining the Minister and the Hon Ruth Dyson in conveying the Green Party\u2019s very best wishes to the health professionals, and to those who have been affected by this infection to date, for a speedy recovery, and for all possible strength to their arm for those fighting to combat the epidemic. At this time it is uncertain what the course of this global pandemic will be. Its spread is uncertain, but it already appears to be extensive, suggesting that containment will be difficult. The nature of the virus is also uncertain. It is clear that it has significant ability to develop or strengthen particular characteristics through mutation, and that means there are particular risks associated with this virus that we need to prepare for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIt is at a time like this that we indeed must be grateful for the pandemic planning that has been undertaken over the past several years, and I pay tribute to the previous Government. I also bring to the House\u2019s attention the Green Party\u2019s contribution towards that pandemic preparedness. I had some personal part to play in some of the pandemic preparedness exercises and I can assure the House that district health boards have taken this process extremely seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIt is critical that we maintain a sense of perspective. It is inevitable that at some point there will be a further influenza pandemic that will cause very substantial illness and death. It is possible that this could be it, or that it could develop into such a pandemic. But it is crucial that all New Zealanders understand that in fact influenza causes illness and death at a substantial level around the world every day. It is essential that our response takes seriously the risk that this poses, while at the same time not fuelling a sense of panic about that risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI am aware that there will be questions about the timeliness of response; I am sure that those will be addressed at some point in the future. But, for now, our focus must be on the process going forward, and on minimising the impact of this epidemic for New Zealand. For my own part, I know a number of the officials involved in this process. I have a great deal of trust in their judgment, and I believe that New Zealanders can be confident in their work. What is most required now is a commitment from all political parties to act together to minimise the impact of this epidemic, and in that spirit I offer the Green Party\u2019s cooperation to the Government, in any way that we can be helpful in minimising the impact of this epidemic. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u002223bd5923e62e49fab5304265f959ec94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223bd5923e62e49fab5304265f959ec94\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I respond on behalf of the ACT Party to the ministerial statement. The Minister of Health is quite right when he says that balance is important; this is a time for caution but not alarm. I would like to congratulate the health professionals involved, who to date have so swiftly, efficiently, and appropriately dealt with this threat to the New Zealand population. Pandemic planning, in fact, is very important, and we find ourselves well-prepared because of the 4 years of work that has gone on in relation to, firstly, the perceived threat of bird flu in 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EOne of the most important things to do, I think, in this sort of situation is to educate people about the threats, and to tell them what they need to do to keep themselves and those around them safe in situations like this. I think there is a lot of confusion about how viruses that are usually confined to animal populations can suddenly find themselves operating in human populations. The swine influenza virus is usually endemic, obviously, to pig populations, but it can mutate into a form that allows it to pass from human to human. The United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report that the symptoms of swine flu are much like those of any seasonal flu\u2014commonly, fever, lethargy, lack of appetite, and coughing. Some people with swine flu have also reported runny noses, sore throats, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhoea. As has already been pointed out, it is important when someone has influenza to treat those symptoms sensibly, and those education messages should be put out amongst the general population. Affected people are most contagious during the first 5 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIt is also important that people do not panic and suddenly worry about the food supply. Swine flu cannot be spread by pork products, because the virus is not transmitted through food. These viruses\u2014bird flu and swine flu\u2014seem to be descendants of the 1918 influenza outbreak. I think it is important to take a sensible approach to these things, to monitor the situation carefully\u2014as we are doing here in New Zealand\u2014and to take advice from organisations like the World Health Organization. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u00223e6087afec53417082422a9f68f73af0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e6087afec53417082422a9f68f73af0\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E The M\u0101ori Party expresses its concern for those who have been affected by the swine flu virus. Long before our lifetimes, but part of the legacy left by the generation of our parents and grandparents, was a period of time referred to as Black November. That was when 8,573 New Zealanders lost their lives in the 1918 influenza epidemic. So we need to be cautious and we need to be careful. I understand that history, because every time we go to Parewanui we see in one of the urup\u0101 the tragic shape of the very small coffins that carried our children to their final resting place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWe must not alarm the general public unnecessarily, but we have every reason to be cautious. I guess the most important thing is that people have good access to information, and I believe that the Ministry of Health is providing that. The two biggest factors for vulnerability to swine flu are, of course, having recently visited Mexico, and exposure to somebody with swine flu. There is an added concern around the similarity of the symptoms and effects of swine flu and those of the traditional flu, which hits hard in winter. So we must be careful, we must be vigilant, and all of us must execute caution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe announcement of the precautions that are being taken by the students and staff who returned from Mexico at the weekend could have provoked undue alarm. I recognise the important role that being prepared with pandemic planning has played in New Zealand\u2019s response. The fact that we had a plan already in place meant that the action could immediately take place, as announced earlier by the Minister of Health. We are not out of the woods by any means, but if there is one message that we should take from this situation, it is the vital importance of being prepared. I finish off by saying that we should not use this issue as an opportunity to play politics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022116c899a00e740e7b77b6c16c040a493\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022116c899a00e740e7b77b6c16c040a493\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make a very brief comment on the Minister\u2019s statement. Firstly, I share with colleagues the sense of support and anguish for the health workers and the people who are at risk at the moment. This is a very stressful time for all. Our thoughts must be with them, and we wish those who are at risk a speedy recovery. Secondly, I acknowledge the preparedness that has been put in place over the last 4 years, which means that New Zealand is in a position to respond strongly if, in fact, a pandemic is confirmed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThirdly, and perhaps finally, I make this point: a number of the contributions this afternoon have, quite properly, stressed the need to move prudently and soberly with regard to this issue. We cannot be in a mode of causing undue alarm or panic, but we do need to be vigilant about its potential implications. In this regard, the news media have a very powerful role to play. I would urge the media to think very carefully about how they handle this situation. I do not think that, for instance, the sensationalism of Television New Zealand\u2019s approach on Sunday evening, and again last night, is actually helpful in terms of conveying accurate public information, or also in downplaying an element of public fear and anxiety. I urge our broadcasters and our news media to take very seriously their responsibilities to inform people accurately about what is happening, and to not take this as an opportunity to ramp up the way in which they make good television or write exciting newspaper articles. This issue is far too serious for that. We serve our people well when we do the best by them, not when we try to make a dangerous situation more serious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u002264d7e6ac19c94e35b49c2cae7dd2ae3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264d7e6ac19c94e35b49c2cae7dd2ae3f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge the contributions of all members on this quite serious issue, and the offers of further contribution from the Opposition parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003ETo pick up on the point from Mr Dunne\u2014without commenting on any specific cases\u2014I say that the New Zealand media actually have been doing their level best to assist us in providing clear and consistent public health messages to New Zealanders. Their role is important because it is quite clear that we cannot trace everybody who may have an issue here. Although there may be some criticism about individual cases, the messages that the media are providing are still fundamental and important to the public health message. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge members\u2019 recognition of our front-line health staff and the work that they are doing. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eaba304cc82547d3bec011ae2b29380e\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002250c6f9a3164e430cbedfde8ed912bd76\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002299d4eb6d954d44afb3997412c1954fe8\u0022\u003EGovernment Expenditure\u2014Increase\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa9a8814d6304fa4bb05429ce12a5855\u0022\u003E1. Hon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Is he aware that successive increases in Government spending over the last 13 years mean Government expenditure is today $30 billion higher per year having allowed for population growth and inflation, and what does he intend to do about it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00222101c820db2544caa7a96290af9ba423\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222101c820db2544caa7a96290af9ba423\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As I pointed out last week, core Crown spending in the year ending 30 June 2009 is expected to be $63.5 billion, up $21.6 billion\u2014or 50 percent\u2014in the last 5 years alone, during which time the economy grew by 23 percent and tax revenue grew by 24 percent. The Budget on 28 May will reprioritise low-quality spending, reduce the rate of spending increase, and set out a credible plan for getting the Government\u2019s finances in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb95fd9b6616404584f6924e316db858\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that tax cuts are good for growth; and, given that ultimately the tax burden is what the Government spends, does he agree that cutting Government spending is an essential element in any programme to boost economic growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db1324b6026b4fdea4a75a958f17c3b5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I agree with the member that tax cuts are good for growth and I agree that the very high rates of spending increase under the previous Government have to be brought under control\u2014if only because a lot of that spending increase did not lead to better services for the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa06d7e6534f4bedb136d2eaaef585a0\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Further to the Minister\u2019s answer, does he agree that tax cuts misdirected to those least likely to need them and least likely to recycle them through spending are an inappropriate attempt at stimulus; if so, can he confirm that if the Government does not proceed with its earlier proposed tax cuts in 2010 and 2011 it will rebalance this year\u2019s tax cuts to benefit all New Zealanders and particularly those with below-average incomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac557657cac84db0bbfecc7e482d8163\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: If the member was genuinely concerned about New Zealanders getting the benefit of fairness in tax cuts, his party would have given some tax cuts in the 9 years that the Government had large surpluses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd65398c46ce417db82852189721bd05\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister comfortable with the fact that the growth in Government expenditure over the last 13 years is equivalent to $7,567 for every man, woman, and child in New Zealand, compared with a reduction of $300 over the previous 12 years; and how will the Government\u2019s forthcoming Budget demonstrate the Government\u2019s willingness to cut low-quality Government spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fecf8bdb9f1b4b21a96cce8eed9fd60b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I agree that much of that increase in expenditure has not led to better, smarter public services. The Budget will take the first steps towards controlling that rapid rate of growth, which is now unsustainable, and focusing on better, smarter public services for the money we are spending. We do not believe more spending is the measure of success; we believe better services are the measure of success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022521a7dd64c314452a66ba62598c77e46\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen the Prime Minister\u2019s comment that Government debt will track down after the Budget; if so, is he aware of any other developed country that is responding to the global economic crisis by reducing Government debt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b177be451c74d088bdb58cf4cdd1aed\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen the Prime Minister\u2019s comment. It is the objective of this Government to get on top of sharply rising public debt and bring it down. If we do not do that a whole generation of New Zealanders could end up carrying the burden of a large debt. That member should remember as well as anyone the pain this country went through to get the last mountain of debt down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1736e53e45d69e5532c4d175004f\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223f63255e9924e829e6ad2c33a710353\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement \u201Cwe are not so arrogant that we don\u2019t listen to the views of the community\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00225451d35342874e65bbe7c68eaa2cfd77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225451d35342874e65bbe7c68eaa2cfd77\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and I also stand by my caucus, which is more than the Leader of the Opposition did when it came to Mt Albert, where he was more than happy to drop Phil Twyford for David Shearer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb5016ac92e54a3a98f1e1f14fb88f7b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, was the Government so arrogant as to assume that after 1 week\u2019s consideration, no analysis, and no consultation it could substitute its views for those of the royal commission, which did consult and did analyse extensively, and then ram the Government\u2019s view through in legislation against the wishes of Aucklanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227642c281fa64678b6dc952c68bf9878\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: For a start-off, after millions of dollars worth of expenditure on the royal commission, three and a half thousand submissions, with 550 oral submissions, what came out from the royal commission was a situation where it supported a regional-wide body in the form of Auckland City Council. That has been carried forward by the Government. The Government does believe there should be more democracy at a lower level, and that view is supported by the community chairs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f56f799793c4a2d8a55edd058045b76\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister listen to, and act upon, the views of Aucklanders\u2014including the 72 percent of people polled in his own electorate of Helensville\u2014who said they preferred the royal commission governance model to the hasty, ill-prepared, and unconsulted model that his Government was trying to ram through; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229521484b04f34c4e8729216c26875587\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, the Government will be undertaking change in Auckland. Secondly, the Government will be supporting a region-wide structure, which will deliver change for Auckland. Funnily enough, in one of the many positions that Phil Goff has had on that issue, he was on the radio today supporting exactly that by saying: \u201CLabour\u2019s position is broadly to support the concept of having a strong regional government to deal with the regional issues. I think that is really important.\u201D Then he said that maybe we should have six local councils; maybe we should have a dozen. That has all changed from the royal commission\u2019s report. The National Government will lead change in Auckland, which will deliver better results for New Zealanders. We will continue to engage with the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e048504d4514c74b712a24c2e3f726d\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that the Local Government Act spells out that before any significant reorganisation of local government can take place, an extensive formal consultation must take place, including formally notifying the draft proposal, calling for submissions on it, and having a poll of electors; and can he explain why that has not happened in Auckland since the Government chucked out the royal commission\u2019s proposals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245c1d46cc18d4b57a6301b5e12819401\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am aware. I am also aware that the royal commission\u2019s report, which forms the main body of the regional structure of the Auckland City Council it has proposed, has been adopted by the Government. I am also aware that there is a select committee process where members of the public will be able to put forward their submissions. Finally, I assure the member that, unlike the Leader of the Opposition, I am aware of the name of the co-leader of the Greens. I say that because when the Leader of the Opposition was speaking on 95bFM and was asked about the co-leader of the Greens, he said: \u201CRussel um; God; oh, I\u2019ve forgotten his name. Ah, Russel, help me; who is the co-leader of the Greens? Oh, it\u2019s Russel Norman, that\u2019s right.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022018d4f7a4a7d4471a0181946ed3887a6\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Before the House rose for the adjournment last time, I raised with you the issue of noise and amplification in the House. What we have just seen was a really good example of the concern that I expressed. The Prime Minister was shouting at the top of his voice. I could see that from the way his facial muscles were contorting. The barracking over here was so loud that it was impossible to hear anything that the Prime Minister said in answer to that question. I plead for some fairness here. Members are entitled to hear answers and to hear what is being said, so they can form a view upon them. At the moment it is simply impossible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244b625e485704c0e81b453adb2b94fc2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: We are in the classic situation that where an answer goes on for a long time and drifts off into major and provocative irrelevancy, then I am afraid it does come back again upon the person giving the answer. So if the Prime Minister perhaps could control himself to a briefer, more precise and concise answer, there is less likely to be a lot of noise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022124ed5c7535949f7a026b62661bd6681\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Cullen may well be right, but the appropriate response would be to stand and take a point of order, not to have the Leader of the Opposition and his mates screaming down so no one can actually hear what the Prime Minister has to say. The fact that the Labour members, once again, wanted to shut down the answer, meant that I was all the more keen to hear what it was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9f536ed8e54ca89291739c5457eee2\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b2cbd6728fa49ae841ca61e490fc013\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe I need more advice on this issue. It was my perception that both sides of the House were making considerable noise on an issue where there was a lot of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022333091e03dd441db9a70d982fb903572\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d9d1b17f7c437bb2a70e20eebc4ebd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the member says \u201Cinterest\u201D; where there are a lot of quite strongly and passionately held views. I would simply ask members to be a little more reasonable with the amount of noise, but if I come back to the original point the Hon Peter Dunne raised, he was quite correct. He raised the issue of the volume and effectiveness of the amplification system in the House. I have had that investigated. I expect to receive a report on that this afternoon and I will be following it up to see whether there is anything that can be done. I must say that I did not hear the answer either, but there are times when the House gets so exuberant, and that may be the case. If it was hugely important, we might have sought further remedy, but let us just move on to the next supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022008c40f29824416796f2bf241ccebf83\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think you have now made a very important point. If you cannot hear an answer, then you cannot possibly rule or intervene if something is out of order. I suggest that in future if you cannot hear, you should do something about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022519f43d3217b459587516de37749098b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is my perception that the House was engaged in one of its sessions across the House of combative political exchange, and I think sometimes it is best to let that run. It did run, and I think we should now move on to the next supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233e0c723416e426495bb3b5fecaeb731\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. With the greatest of respect, I do not believe that that ruling is right, because what you are saying is that both sides of the House were engaged in this yelling out, and, therefore, no one could hear it, and that that was fair enough. Actually I do not think that is right, because what that is saying is that if a loud group, particularly close to the Speaker, decides to shut someone down, the rest of us back here, who are actually straining to hear the answer because we are interested, are actually denied that opportunity. The person on his or her feet is denied that opportunity, and I think the requirement is that the answer should be able to be heard. If it is out of order, someone should take a point of order, and then you rule. You should not say that because 20 people want to scream and shut down an answer, that is acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277b690d9f8bf4303bfa996bfd52b3f59\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I take on board the point the member has made\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d54a980a056e4a45b57c16703fc88f91\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: I suggest that the way through this might be to invite the Prime Minister to repeat his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d995b9574f34fcb96ab5f0a33d40391\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think if we are to do that we just invite more\u2014I heard enough of the answer to satisfy myself; the answer was not essential to the question asked, and maybe I should have closed it down. There are times when the House does let off a little steam, and that is not unreasonable. If it had been a hugely important matter that was being debated, of course I would have stopped the noise and made sure the Prime Minister could be heard on it. But it was clear from both sides of the House that the matter was purely political. We will move on now to the next supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c763f0d943c435190881015e5dba49d\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister, therefore, telling the House that he is reconsidering his stance of ramming through the Government\u2019s elitist view on Auckland restructuring in the face of comments from the suburban newspapers\u2014for example, that his Government was adopting a bullying approach, and making changes that actually stripped democracy from local residents in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022095dd9e47b2a4a6faabd142ee2aa3c30\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Far from doing that, I will quote from community newspapers. The Auckland City Harbour News says that \u201CCommunity board chairs are applauding the government\u2019s decision to retain grassroots democracy\u201D. The Avondale Community Board chair says \u201CBy the looks of this the local is back in local politics.\u201D In the Eastern Courier the Pakuranga Community Board chair is quoted as saying \u201CIt\u2019s a lot closer to what\u2019s acceptable.\u201D The Government is working hard to get a good solution for Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2cfbcc3e08d466f8d67314efdf4762f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the front page of every community newspaper in Auckland that ran the view that the Government was adopting a bullying approach\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e02ac7a0e7dd403f902f68348358575b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows that the House takes a dim view of the tabling of newspaper articles. He sought leave to table the front page of every community newspaper. That would be a difficult challenge for him, because under the Standing Orders he must do that if leave is granted. If he raised that point of order purely to try to inject the comment he injected, that is out of order. The House will come back to order. I will put the leave he has sought, but I do not want to see the Standing Order abused. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f50fcb9373f9429380e228ad1bff1c1b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can I speak further to the point of order, Mr Speaker? If a question is asked where I legitimately quote accurately the views that are expressed in the media, and the Prime Minister said, no, far from saying that, they said something else\u2014in other words saying that the original quote was wrong\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022585cd04a1fba46c7becc0b41de3144dc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is bringing the substance of a debate into a point of order. The Standing Orders are very clear on how members should seek leave to table documents. I am merely pointing out that it is not acceptable to use that Standing Order to make a political point. The Standing Order is available for the tabling of documents. The member has sought leave to table the front page of every community newspaper in Auckland. If leave is granted, he will do that. Leave is sought to table the front page\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f353223aca44a31baf7689780e3b237\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The leave that was sought was to table the front page of every community newspaper in Auckland that had stated that the Government was acting in a bullying capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5ba727e80ee4bcf8164da8eb0f16c54\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because it has been alleged that I misrepresented what the member sought leave for, I ask whether the member agrees that he is seeking leave to table the front page of every community newspaper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b54209bb08342eb8f5e3b941ed1f220\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: To clarify the point, I am seeking leave to table an identical front page in every suburban newspaper in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3514a477eb3407ba6ca1fd838f392d5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table the front page of every suburban newspaper in Auckland. Is there any objection to that course of action? There is no objection. Those front pages will be tabled before the end of this sitting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277c6a0a7d32e4915a48b274dd4cedaea\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question, Mr Goff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202fe5233305043019a2c29eb931bbdb3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: The truth will out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f615a3c146041cf93e314b13e76fdba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That point of order has been dealt with. Is the member asking a further supplementary question? He has the right to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292a76ea73b8a484ca8929d43d487328e\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6192237fb544eefb10646e9d254f6da\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Before Mr Goff sought leave to table his documents, you had already called Sue Kedgley to ask her supplementary question. I ask that you allow her to pursue her question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab1fea9bc29492c860461841f412d5d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the Greens. Would the honourable member Mr Goff allow me to come back to the Greens. I do apologise. You are quite correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9bb3f6cf02341ed95c5f09f3cf0df82\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the submissions on legislation that he mentioned in no way substitute for the formal consultation processes required under the Local Government Act? Why should Aucklanders be denied the right to a formal consultation process under the Local Government Act that all other New Zealanders are afforded, especially when the Auckland super-city proposal involves the mother of all mergers\u2014the biggest in New Zealand\u2019s history\u2014involving $23 billion in assets and over 6,000 staff?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205110c99973d4abda6f9b1a8a337413a\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, there has been substantial engagement with Auckland. The royal commission was not a small event. There were 3,500 submissions. Secondly, the Government is continuing to engage with Aucklanders. I met with all of the Auckland mayors last week, with the exception of John Banks. To give the member some comfort, I will quote Mike Lee, the chairman of the Auckland Regional Council: \u201COver the last 20 years there have been a number of changes to governance in Auckland imposed on us by central government. Never before have we had a Government committed to such a high level of engagement with us, and I want to thank the Minister of Local Government for all that he is doing.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb55efee54b941a78e52b508bf81f793\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Prime Minister insisting on eight out of 20 councillors being elected at large, given the universal opposition to that proposal, and the overwhelming preference for a full ward system\u2014or is his position yet another on which he will do a flip-flop?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc293a0240ed413e82a87a20234d80b0\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, the Leader of the Opposition cannot have it both ways. He was telling us before that we should listen to the royal commission. The royal commission recommended councillors at large. The Leader of the Opposition is now saying we should ignore it. He cannot have it both ways. Secondly, the decision was made because councillors at large are deemed to have a region-wide response to what is a regional problem. If there is someone who cannot make up his mind, it is Chris Carter, who was asked last night whether, if Labour became the Government, he would roll back the super-city. He said: \u201CI cannot possibly answer that.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224277ccdc41e243c9a246865c870f42ad\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister has quoted me incorrectly. I seek leave to make a personal statement on the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291a93431c3244b1a97ed270be03a46ef\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to make a personal statement. Is there any objection to that course of action? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228302add0b16f4de3a29041bbbc1e0a66\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Last night over 250 people came to a meeting in West Auckland that was co-hosted by me, David Cunliffe, and Lynne Pillay. We had an open question and answer session. At the end I was asked what a future Labour Government would do about any reorganisation of Auckland. My answer was that we would look at it at the time, but we certainly would not follow the Key-Hide programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285209ccef3f74b13a6863af9176242b8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House has let off some steam. Now could we have a little bit of order, please, and show some courtesy to Sue Bradford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d75b5525e8ee4d51bbf2e32746bfe302\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with one of the Auckland mayors, who said recently: \u201CThe voices of everyone else in the city are relegated to the 20 or 30 toothless local boards, with no power or resources, who like Oliver Twist will be left to pluck up their courage to beg their new lords and masters\u201D\u2014that is the super-city council\u2014\u201Cfor a little bit more for their communities\u201D; if he does not agree with that statement, why not, and what is he going to do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276e0fd8265384daea1a311cd50b9d0b4\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. The reason for that is that the Auckland City Council will be well represented and will have those region-wide activities. The aim is for the second tier, whatever its structure, to be a strong voice for the local community, and to be able to carry out the programmes that are already being carried out today. In my view, that will deliver a much better governance structure for Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff06202a58184e6eaf968e4b0a204218\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister follow the law under section 49 of the Local Government Act and seek a mandate from Aucklanders as to whether they agree with the proposed very radical restructuring, or is he concerned that it would show that, overwhelmingly, Aucklanders do not like what he is proposing, and will he, therefore, override that Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233a64e4141f24a78ba40bf6ef2027b9b\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, firstly, I would not take the assumption made by the Leader of the Opposition as being correct. The polling I have seen supports a super-city for Auckland. In fact, I can say\u2014and I do not think it is breaking any confidences\u2014that all of the mayors whom I met last week actually supported the regional structure. Yes, there is some debate on the second tier. We will carry on with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef1a4a416f8d4155ae23092db5220ada\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister instructed the Minister of Local Government, Mr Rodney Hide, that his proposal to meet some of the costs of the restructuring by selling assets is not acceptable; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022607ceb60dce54d9dbab4e447ee4bd71f\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There has been no discussion on that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220267d75d9d094eae864af4cd5d60809a\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister finally acknowledge to the House that not only most Aucklanders but even his own MPs, including some of his own Cabinet Ministers, like Paula Bennett, have said that they do not have confidence in many of the changes that he and Mr Hide are proposing, because the Government has got it wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e16e50407e1c4b86a054e3370f8ccef0\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Far from the Government having got it wrong, I am sure that by the time this proposal for Auckland is rolled out we will have got it right, which is a lot better than the decision made by Mr Goff when he drop kicked Phil Twyford out of the Mt Albert electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022721c51900f4443c9bd5d22cdf4b479d7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236eb664f4c03418ca5e765c258404be6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order is being raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0518a6353634cbe94e3238ce881b7bc\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the public interest in this issue, and the fact that the M\u0101ori Party, particularly, does have an interest in it, I would like to offer one of our supplementary questions to it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b5205c6af984dbc966176dc7240747f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. He is using the point of order system to play political games, and that is not consistent with the Standing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd640e0b64cb4aeb9d6d35ab672a9fef\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Not at all!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b61ad5d59ea4e5c8d26bbddcaca8621\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And he will not interject while I am on my feet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba8662b12bbe49f98d7bd68314825099\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: That was a very serious offer to the M\u0101ori Party to take one of our supplementary questions, if it wanted it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022865a4021397d49f4a41319d57967020e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. If the member can show me the Standing Order where he can take a point of order and do that, I will consider the matter further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022887ce4392a2c4084af71f7267f544b09\u0022\u003EGovernment Debt\u2014Increase\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ab7204bfe8d4697aee245d1f631416c\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What would be the financial situation if no changes to current policy were made in the forthcoming Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002263efb51f00cc4df68a68f32b69664d7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263efb51f00cc4df68a68f32b69664d7e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Budget Policy Statement announced in December showed that the Government had inherited a large and ongoing fiscal imbalance. This was due largely to a 50 percent increase in expenditure over the past 5 years without matching revenue increases. Preliminary Budget forecasts show recurring operating deficits of more than $10 billion a year, and that the Government would be continually in deficit for the next 15 years. As a result, if nothing was changed, gross debt would climb steadily from the current level of around 20 percent of GDP to in excess of 70 percent by 2023, and still be climbing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294891aa98d7342c892a6f67bec0b4f3d\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What consequences would follow if these projections were to be realised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201a2db5156464fb9abc6519e79ee3f79\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: If the Government continued the projected spending levels under the previous Government, combined with the recession\u2019s impact on our tax revenue, Government debt would quadruple over the next decade, eventually reaching $30,000 per New Zealander. Of course, at that level it would require radical steps to bring it under control. It would also create additional finance costs equivalent to around $5 billion per annum today. These costs do not allow for the detrimental impact on growth and access to credit that such an outcome would inevitably create. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c1142422ab94165ae5f30ff12ef946c\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Which of the Minister\u2019s two positions does he now stand by: his earlier position that there was no debt problem, and that therefore tax cuts should have been given earlier to New Zealanders; or his position now that there is a debt problem, and that therefore he must have been wrong to call for earlier tax cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d766ed427fdd4633a1104e20225aba91\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It is certain there is potentially a debt problem, and a significant driver of that debt problem was the previous Government\u2019s refusal to implement tax cuts. It used those surpluses to commit to structural spending levels growing at twice the rate of the economy. That is unsustainable and will have to change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebb3385b4ef5406f8c74cff5b0d28056\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What principles will the Government follow in outlining a responsible Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237605adb05f64781af32e38e156594a1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has already outlined a number of principles. It is committed to retaining social entitlements, committed to improving public services, and committed to reprioritising spending so that taxpayers\u2019 money goes to those areas where we can make a real difference to New Zealanders and maintain better, smarter public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5dec96bb1694dba86226f0e882df788\u0022\u003ENine-day Working Fortnight\u2014Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc85f5a722f44b888bd7fbe631293565\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: How many jobs does he expect the 9-day fortnight will save?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00229fa233ea2d1c420f9f95f8874c17c0f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fa233ea2d1c420f9f95f8874c17c0f6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I expect the 9-day fortnight programme will save as many jobs as businesses, unions, and employees can negotiate to enter the scheme. So far 123 jobs have been saved. We expect more jobs will be saved in coming weeks and months. Work and Income has had approaches from 67 firms, and a further seven smaller firms have made inquiries about the extended scheme announced by Prime Minister John Key last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211de8bb9da314b81baace92c21fef913\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm, therefore, that last week\u2019s changes to the 9-day fortnight were a political patch-up because the scheme was simply not working, and that with unemployment up by more than 17,000, National\u2019s efforts to protect 123 jobs, although worthwhile, were simply inadequate; if so, how can he insist that the 9-day fortnight has been successful when Fisher and Paykel Appliances has cut another 20 Kiwi jobs after having received public funds from the scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233007475e6764e8ea82e63bb328933f9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member may be interested to know that the scheme has been operating for 1 month and that the Government has provided sufficient funding for many workplaces, businesses, unions, and employees to negotiate to use the 9-day fortnight. In the end it is up to them. The member should understand that many of them face some difficult and stark choices between people keeping their jobs or losing them, people taking pay cuts, and people going on the 9-day fortnight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220632c332482d468bbfecdcec9fb62a19\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: How does New Zealand\u2019s unemployment rate compare with that in other parts of the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254924a9b27e94b83be7147e6914aca6a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Unemployment started to rise at the beginning of 2008 under the previous Government. It currently stands at 4.6 percent which is relatively low compared with the United Kingdom\u2019s rate at 6.7 percent, and the 8.5 percent rate in the United States and in the eurozone. The Government is keen to do everything it can to help people to retain jobs, but it also wants to build confidence in the economy, so that we can create the new jobs that will replace those that are inevitably being lost as part of the global recession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e44f07f5c0e744469b801d18a13bce54\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Given that approximately 1,160 Public Service workers have been \u201Ccapped\u201D in recent months, why are they not being afforded the benefits of the 9-day working fortnight?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4bf2796201447a18b528468b21fe4a4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government made the decision that the best way it could contribute to inhibiting job loss was to have a scheme applicable to the private sector; the Government can make its own decisions about the public sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267bbce0285db43e5802eb8f289b824a7\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister therefore confirm to the House that John Key\u2019s unfunded cycleway\u2014that is, not this year, next year, or the year after\u2014the 9-day working fortnight, and the scrapped equity scheme have failed to live up to their hype; and does this not just confirm that Mr Key\u2019s Job Summit was the talkfest that everybody suspected it would prove to be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222efacc9bc4e2428aa9a6d0113130c70e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No; the Job Summit was a very interesting and effective interaction between the Government and the private sector\u2014a bunch of people that the Labour members forgot about when they were in Government, to the extent that they were completely ignored. A number of initiatives will be pursued, and the cycleway, in particular, will be pursued with vigour because it is a great idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225c5780f4fd974c1999835c3717581394\u0022\u003EEmissions Trading Scheme\u2014Ng\u0101i Tahu Treaty Settlement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a4456d5741b4647bd734617e6547c85\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: Has he received advice that the emissions trading scheme will cost Ng\u0101i Tahu up to $120 million; if so, what strategies will he establish to ensure that the scheme is not prejudicial for assets transferred under Treaty settlements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c639963e52fb45b9903c3b0f8eea0cc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c639963e52fb45b9903c3b0f8eea0cc6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised that Ng\u0101i Tahu is affected by the emissions trading scheme in the same way as all pre-1990 forest owners, in that if their areas are deforested they incur very substantial liabilities. The cost is difficult to assess as it depends on which areas of forests would give higher returns from alternative land uses. This issue adds complexity to the Treaty settlement process as it significantly affects land values and the quantum of settlements. The Government wants to act in good faith with M\u0101ori on these complex Treaty and climate change issues, while also acknowledging that issues over the emissions trading scheme application to forestry also impact significantly on the property rights of all landowners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f890542c6cc74815acdd7179716c790a\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What responsibility do forest companies have for situations such as that of Ng\u0101i Tahu, which has no control over trees on its land that are cleared by forest companies, but thereby incurs a liability of $40 million to $120 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a25d0deb3424809bf42144b644e9b27\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Landowners who may be faced with forest companies removing their trees have the option of either replanting trees themselves, contracting with an alternative forest company to plant trees on the land, or, in the event that they want to change the land use, incurring those liabilities. I think there are legitimate questions and debate to be had about the application of the emissions trading scheme in respect of forestry, and that is one of the reasons the Government is reviewing the scheme through the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd7e1294c9ad47e1861aa883ee08d468\u0022\u003EHekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E[And greetings to you, Mr Speaker, and to us the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EHas the Minister received any specific reports on Ng\u0101i Tahu\u2019s concerns about the impacts of the emissions trading scheme on its settlement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7ce11824a5a499c94ddea0108448f3b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the previous Government commissioned a report by Helen Aikman QC on the very specific concern of Ng\u0101i Tahu that they were prejudicially adversely affected by the emissions trading scheme, in that the Government knew but did not disclose the adverse effect that climate change policy would have on forest values. This independent report rejected this claim and concluded that the Government had acted in good faith. I have provided this report to Ng\u0101i Tahu and want them to have the opportunity to comment on its analysis and conclusions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235535524c07c4532b6146f6bc54857c7\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What progress has been made to respond to the concerns of Te Ohu Kai Moana, Aotearoa Fisheries, Sealord Group, and Endurance Fishing that during the process of reviewing the scheme the effect of emissions trading on M\u0101ori fishing interests must be explicitly recognised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecac1d9e46774eeb9b635c0e99aa80c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: An issue with the emissions trading scheme is that for industries like cement, steel, aluminium, and dairy a 90 percent allocation of its emissions is provided through to 2018 and then phased out, as compared with the fishing industry, which receives an allocation of only 50 percent of its emissions and for a period of only 3 years. I know that the M\u0101ori Party has a keen interest in that issue, and it is one on which the Government is keen to have a dialogue to ensure that our important fishing industry is treated fairly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a4e648325334634aeb2a1b1bd03be01\u0022\u003ESentencing and Parole Reform Bill\u2014Implications\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c25cfea5fb914d1196b2823dde09210d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Will his Government continue to support its Sentencing and Parole Reform Bill in light of advice suggesting it may lead to criminals attempting to kill police and victims in order to avoid arrest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u002278fd8fc165ee4f028d65a4990d6ec544\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278fd8fc165ee4f028d65a4990d6ec544\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, but the ultimate form the bill takes will be shaped by the outcome of the select committee process. The member might be interested to know that I am also advised that similar concerns that offenders may kill their victims to avoid liability for an increased penalty were raised when the maximum penalty for sexual violation was increased from 14 to 20 years in 1993. The Ministry of Justice is not aware of any evidence that this has occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b92808b18c1c4895aa9f2ff2f23281b9\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Will his Government continue to support its Sentencing and Parole Reform Bill in light of advice that it could lead to judges giving shorter sentences to offenders to avoid the no-parole policy, cause havoc in prisons, and clog our court system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229d03efb770344b3bb927be2c1fabe53\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. As I said in response to the first question, I have an open mind about what shape the bill may take when it emerges from the select committee. The member might be interested to know that the advice I have is that the number of offenders before the courts at any one time under this legislation would be small. With regard to court backlogs, I can assure the member that much work is under way in this space, and real change is on the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022866a2b054ce74a25bc25165e0cb03587\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Is he satisfied with the progress of the Sentencing and Payroll Reform Bill and other justice legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a6f389cfffb4d38bc55083184e71528\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am trying to assist the member. I do not think it is the Sentencing and Payroll Reform Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aafe3c6de77416d812822f1e501bd3d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has made his point. I invite the member to ask his question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022793927d958ae4c27b51d278f3fe5ec2c\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Is he satisfied with the progress of the Sentencing and Parole Reform Bill and other justice legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240d5fed3870b4c9faf887b63d00f8dca\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Since the election the Government has passed five justice bills, introduced another seven, and progressed three others. I am afraid that the member opposite, Clayton Cosgrove, will have to do better than getting his ideas for questions from last week\u2019s Dominion Post. He will have to lift his game.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e29268ed5b3f4badbccc7e792269c2b1\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that National and the Prime Minister have misled the public\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022091b9db7b58846dc89823cd52fb80c4e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was unable to hear that question because the member\u2019s own leader was interjecting at the time he was putting the question. I would be happy to answer it if he would repeat the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d983981cad9b41e0be7f43c7f8868bd6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure, but I do not think it was the honourable Leader of the Opposition. I suspect it was the Hon Trevor Mallard. I confess it did make it\u2014 [Interruption] A point of order has been raised by the honourable member, and he is now interjecting on his own point of order. I found it difficult to hear too, so I invite the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to please repeat his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7fbe7341abc468e940932407aac803c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that National and the Prime Minister have misled the public by campaigning on a no-parole policy that they said would see an estimated 572 additional prisoners by 2011, when in reality, as his own Government has only now admitted, its policy would result in just 50 more offenders being added to the prison population over 4 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d577a81a85ed4199af74110b8c8c865e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I agree completely with the Prime Minister\u2019s statements because unlike the previous Labour Government, which saw Damien O\u2019Connor deny the need for a new prison, despite its own forecast that showed another would be needed, we wanted the public to know the cost of what we were putting in front of them. That is why we incorporated the forecast increase in prison numbers into our estimate of the impact of the sentencing policy. That information was provided on our website at the time the policy was launched, and the member might be interested to know that it is still there today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225de4b488f0ce41fa83cf1c2d8e5a88a1\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with his own Government\u2019s spokesman who said in the New Zealand Herald on 18 April 2009, in relation to National\u2019s misleading figures: \u201CIn any case, as a responsible opposition we thought it was better to over-estimate rather than under-estimate, because we wanted the public to be clear that parole changes come at a cost.\u201D, and does he think that deliberately misleading the public with a figure that was more than 10 times the factual reality is an acceptable \u201Coverestimation\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225545699796d4117bfefb584c50f5085\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do agree with the Government spokesperson on those numbers because, as I said in answer to the last question, it was quite clear that the forecast numbers had to be included. It was made clear at the time the policy was launched on our website. If the member did his homework he would see that fact is still on our website today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222239ac641d5b4478978a617acea8ad32\u0022\u003EKyoto Protocol\u2014Compliance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae35304ce5d7438f9ab441d61a310f83\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: What do the latest reports on New Zealand\u2019s compliance with the Kyoto Protocol show, and how do these vary from previous reports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002299ba3405d8d44a0d83f8d30718edf668\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299ba3405d8d44a0d83f8d30718edf668\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E The 2009 net position report shows New Zealand is expected to exceed its Kyoto Protocol obligations by 9.6 million tonnes for the first commitment period, which on current carbon prices equates to $241 million. This is a marked improvement from the 2008 report, which indicated a 21.7 million tonne deficit, equating to $546 million. The Government has responded cautiously to this good news, noting that in previous reports these projections have varied from over a billion dollars in surplus to over a billion dollars in deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a39afa299e6147e49c23a5c5d10f7f31\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Kyoto balance changed by nearly $800 million in the last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b43517558934ee29d6d877fd152be82\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The big changes have been in forestry and agriculture. Drought conditions in 2007-08 resulted in fewer cattle, sheep, and deer, and together with more accurate data on actual nitrous oxide animal emissions, that has resulted in a predicted reduction in agricultural emissions. New forest data show that the post-1990 forests for which New Zealand gets credits are absorbing significantly more carbon than was anticipated a year ago, because the forests are being planted on better soils than previously and because they have not been thinned, so they are producing thicker stands. There has been no significant change in the projections of emissions for energy, transport, and industrial processes. These significant variations in agricultural and forest data are a cautionary message about the uncertainty and challenges of carbon accounting in respect of natural systems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228837553a51464e0baf19c032e169a7e4\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is the Government taking to try to get greater certainty in respect of New Zealand\u2019s carbon balance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea09e1c3006e424ea108a4f91008d698\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is taking three steps. First, these latest figures will be independently audited and internationally reviewed over coming months. Secondly, we are investing heavily in the Land Use and Carbon Analysis System, to get greater certainty on those forestry figures. Satellite data should be available later this year, and we should continue to treat the forestry figures with caution until that satellite information is available. Thirdly, this Government is investing heavily in research on greenhouse gas emissions from agriculture, as there is still significant uncertainty with regard to emissions from that sector and they are particularly significant for New Zealand\u2019s unique emissions profile. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022443c81f797104f968be68c908f93f40e\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that New Zealand\u2019s gross greenhouse gas emission levels are still some 23 percent higher than the 1990 levels, that the effort required to lower emissions will still be very significant, and that National\u2019s policy-setting so far\u2014such as stalling the implementation of the emissions trading scheme, scrapping the ban on thermal baseload generation, doing away with the biofuels obligation, and generally failing to plan for a transition to a lower-polluting economy\u2014is heading in exactly the wrong direction?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f152439ccb1a4bd8abeaf936f4227940\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It is true that New Zealand\u2019s gross emissions have increased very substantially, and the great irony is that during the course of the previous Government, when there was great talk of carbon neutrality, New Zealand\u2019s emissions grew at a faster rate than those of any other developed country in the Western World. I say the only thing that is currently saving New Zealand\u2019s bacon on the carbon balance is the large tree planting that occurred in the 1990s. That is actually offsetting that large increase in emissions. But no one in this House should doubt the challenge for New Zealand of constraining its emissions and making real progress on climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229036f2720483432cbd62c14767bff178\u0022\u003EResource Management Act Reforms\u2014Minister\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022402d3103c2904b689d368ed16dd2edba\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Does he stand by his statements that the Resource Management (Simplifying and Streamlining) Amendment Bill will reduce costs and delays?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c979e01ae89545e582516fc11f1b6931\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c979e01ae89545e582516fc11f1b6931\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and this view is supported by the vast bulk of submissions to the Local Government and Environment Committee on this bill. Some submitters have expressed concern about some of the specifics of the 167 clauses of the bill, which is not surprising for a reform of this size. The tragedy is that for the last 9 years the previous Government not only ignored calls for reforms of the Resource Management Act but actually made amendments to the Act that increased costs and delays. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274df9d10b6284defa0fc110ddd941f57\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the Minister of Transport that the New Zealand Transport Agency\u2019s submission in relation to that agency\u2019s notices of requirement is \u201Ca minor technical matter\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229061fa76b5324f338141081759249ab4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Transport Agency has made a quite specific submission around how the requiring authority status can work better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022612db7b411474f7fab4067d4d81d6bd0\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CMinor technical\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244af0371aabb483abe46b889973177a5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It is, and it is important. It is minor and technical; it affects one of the 167 clauses. The Minister of Transport noted that the agency wished to make that submission to the select committee, and I think that it was important for the select committee to have the best advice possible because it is crucial for New Zealand that we get this bill right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277d5209ff7c14b8ea1f32d35605c5a7f\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister received on differing views of the Opposition on the Resource Management (Simplifying and Streamlining) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c71e95503f342de9ae3316687ac30fa\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That question, as it starts, cannot possibly be the responsibility of that Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231701ee39dea4f08b5d57a8000a1eb12\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member has made a reasonable point. The Minister really has no responsibility for the views of the Opposition. I know that the construction of \u201CWhat reports \u2026\u201D is an attempt to get around that fact. It is something of a dilemma. We know what is happening: the Minister has no responsibility for the views of the Opposition yet he is asked what reports he has received on the views of the Opposition. In recent time that construction has often sufficed to bring it within the responsibility of the Minister. Maybe I can invite the member to repeat his question in a way that brings it more consistently within the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227acfe624c6714223ad3f284778e7dcd1\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister received on differing views on the Resource Management (Simplifying and Streamlining) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225642e905bc6741c2a091c977f336638c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I have been amused that there have been reports from the spokesperson on infrastructure opposite saying that the bill does not go nearly far enough, and from the spokesperson on the environment opposite saying that it goes way too far. I think that this is what happens in a dysfunctional family when mum and dad are both leaving home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dfefcfc7336461bb1c945c8547f9f25\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the submission from the chief executive of the Transport Agency that the amendment to the notices of requirement section could \u201Csignificantly increase project costs\u201D\u2014his estimate in a supplementary submission is that the Manukau Harbour crossing would cost in excess of $100 million more\u2014and does he still think that this is a \u201Cminor technical matter\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294399631d0d3490ba4a201cf877a0800\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I note that the submissions not just from the Transport Agency but also from the electricity industry and other major infrastructure providers make plain that they strongly support the Resource Management (Simplifying and Streamlining) Amendment Bill. Those submitters say the bill is crucial to the building of additional infrastructure. The question for this Parliament in respect of a requiring authority is whether it is appropriate for requiring authorities, many of which are private companies, to be both the applicant and the decision maker on such consents, noting that it actually adds an additional stage to the process. That is an issue on which I am very keen to hear the views of the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022231fc9fe4db54466a6208c625b1d1738\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was a very specific question that asked whether the Minister agreed, and whether it was a \u201Cminor technical matter\u201D. Neither of those legs to the question was addressed. If he had addressed one of them, I would not have taken this point of order. He gave us an answer to a question that was not asked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d5d8b5d46b04fcf97f06281eff82902\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s question referred to a submission from the New Zealand Transport Agency. That submission made plain that the bill will substantially improve its capacity to build roads and infrastructure. It is not good enough for the member to quote simply a small element of a submission. It was perfectly proper for me to refer to the complete submission from that organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222caa6112d2234512b28c09ded2f92673\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think I have heard sufficient on this issue. The member was offering to give away a supplementary question a little while ago; he has further supplementary questions to pursue this issue. My judgment is that the Minister did actually address the serious issue around the requiring authorities. The member raised the issue of possible cost. The Minister handled the question by way of pointing out the seriousness of the issue around requiring authorities. However, I invite the member to pursue his interests with a further supplementary question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd677930b4ea4a3eb6462950e7af33d8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister of Housing share with the Minister the Housing New Zealand Corporation\u2019s view that the Hobsonville project was subject to nimbyism before or after the Minister of Housing supported that submission to the committee\u2014as the committee was told? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8b4284833ff4406956a148cd21027f3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: A submission was made by some Housing New Zealand Corporation staff. It was not approved by the board, by senior management, or by the Minister, and the Minister has received an apology for that. I note, though, that that submission was very supportive of the Government\u2019s Resource Management (Simplifying and Streamlining) Amendment Bill, and pointed out the advantages. The submitters wanted to extend the major project provisions for infrastructure to the Housing New Zealand Corporation\u2019s development. I do not think that that is sensible\u2014I think housing issues are best dealt with at the local level\u2014so the Government does not intend to pursue that change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022413f361982ca46dfb1ce1492551ce9fb\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. How does increasing the filing fee from $55 to $500 for groups wishing to appeal to the Environment Court reduce their costs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ab0c787cdb744d4b560e10a1baa529b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: In considering the $500 appeal fee we need to take into account the fact that the actual cost to the court system is well over $1,000. When we look at the cost of appeal to the Environment Court, as compared with the fees for the High Court or for District Courts, we see that they compare very well. I also note that the registrar of our courts has the discretion to waive that fee in the event that he or she believes it would be unfair, and would block out a reasonable appeal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022403c9afe69594525aca92ca36cbb4e5f\u0022\u003ETrades Academies\u2014Establishment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f1c3414d16e4d42b27aaadefb545ecf\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What announcements has the Government made to progress its promise to establish at least five trades academies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00223347d718056d4e089f3c8437b93cba84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223347d718056d4e089f3c8437b93cba84\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has recently asked the education sector for expressions of interest in establishing trades academies. Schools and tertiary institutions have been asked to submit short proposals that can be evaluated. Proposals that are judged to have significant merit will then be taken to a business case stage, so that final decisions can be made by Cabinet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb04bea897bf4c3ca53036b785421ecf\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government looking for in the expressions of interest? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d183d658981429d9e1a89e6bd22c2b4\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The key attribute we are looking for is relevance. We are looking for proposals that will provide students who prefer to opt for practical, hands-on education experiences with exactly that, and that will provide them with more opportunities to gain the practical skills they need to enter the 21st century workforce. Members opposite may laugh, but I have been really heartened as I have gone around the country, talking to principals and tertiary institutions, to hear about some of the very exciting opportunities that they want the opportunity to create for young New Zealand students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2ed56cd1e51439184468281b144afb2\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: How can the replacement of the previous Labour Government\u2019s Schools Plus programme, which was a comprehensive response to student underachievement, with five proposed trade academies over 3 years be considered anything but pathetic, when, currently, 25 percent of young New Zealanders leave school without the equivalent of National Certificate of Educational Achievement level 1? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7509eaf2b264c5c9b8f0160373f5342\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I can answer that question very simply. I looked high and low in the Ministry of Education for the substantial Schools Plus policy, and I could not find it, and I could not find any money to do anything about it. The principals out there in secondary schools do not know what that substantial policy was, either. Calling for expressions of interest in establishing at least five trades academies, which will be in place by the next election, goes a long way further to actually addressing the issues of young New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022649a4b7ae49c4f228ce5a992b11497aa\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with John Key, who said that \u201CNational will make the off-site learning opportunities of Gateway and STAR a mainstream part of what schools can offer.\u201D; if so, will she commit to keeping the $21 million for the enhanced Secondary Tertiary Alignment Resource (STAR) programme, which was part of Labour\u2019s Schools Plus initiative? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022562befe958c3470785d13cf81d2caf0a\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I can assure that member of the quality and the worth of the STAR and Gateway programmes. [Interruption] National takes credit for those programmes, because we invented them. But I say to that member that he will have to wait for the Budget to see exactly what expenditure will be put into them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dfa244e571eb44419e2ea232ee09cae7\u0022\u003EEnergy\u2014Gas Supplies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe692354fcb34f4a9a240c756a9a02d0\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Does he stand by his statement 9 weeks ago that \u201Cgas will be a big part of New Zealand\u2019s energy mix in the future\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022471c446ebf1346d3a2759629ef6d4e7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022471c446ebf1346d3a2759629ef6d4e7c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In a speech on 24 February I also said \u201CNew Zealand\u2019s electrical energy future will rely more on wind, hydro and geothermal. Gas will bridge us to that future.\u201D I stand by both those statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8056d6b375e4fce9cab267294cc8eaa\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the Electricity Commission\u2019s finding last week that even if there is a big new gas discovery in New Zealand, the price of gas will \u201Cbe very vulnerable to the international LNG price and the $US/$NZ exchange rate\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222323b86f5e7448fc838ee2fef063e116\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I do not necessarily agree with the position that the Electricity Commission has taken with regard to future gas price, nor do I accept that there will necessarily be the importation of liquefied natural gas into New Zealand. It is interesting to note, though, that estimates of gas reserves in New Zealand regularly change. Indeed, the previous Minister, David Parker, said in 2006 that when it comes to \u201Cforecasting gas demand and supply, there is significant uncertainty around a range of factors on both the demand and supply sides.\u201D I agree with him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286726cf1803548f08c414d35aa3cfc25\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports about the importance of gas to our electricity system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d89c2537310f4ba9a15bc624e365714b\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have read a speech from the previous Minister of Energy, the Hon David Parker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f19c97686dec4e5bb0ba3f9eb02828f0\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Well done!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7ad47a6588a446ea543bc8543d14a87\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I tell you what: it would be a good idea if Charles Chauvel spent a bit of time with Mr Parker, because he said in February 2008 \u201CFossil fuels, especially gas, will continue to have [an important] role for some time to come. They provide security, versatility, and stability in the delivery of electricity.\u201D I have also seen a speech from Mr Parker in 2006 in which he said \u201CWe\u201D\u2014that is, the Labour Party\u2014\u201Caccept \u2026 that some thermal power from fossil fuels will be needed in our energy system for the foreseeable future,\u201D. I think Mr Chauvel should spend a lot more time talking to Mr Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260896ddba7e942ff997386129691d197\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Does\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231de618490704e9eaf9ed71e1b222dc7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Your colleague is asking a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ed29b9e39704f27a27cf00efb7d60f3\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with energy analyst Molly Melhuish\u2019s calculation that allowing a linkage to the international price of gas could see household power bills jump by more than $300 a year; if so, how does he reconcile his calls for low energy price rises with his promotion of a gas-fired electricity future for New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bea35f03af649a0bc958ce3d6be8306\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: It is unfortunate that the member does not listen, firstly, to me, and then, as a back-up, to his own colleagues. You see, it is quite evident that gas will be a bridge fuel for the future. It is abundantly clear from everything I have said that we will have greater reliance on renewable energy, and that gas will be sort of the icing on the cake. I might note that due to the previous Government\u2019s absolute failure to look after the transmission infrastructure, right now North Islanders are almost totally dependent on thermal generation, because the Cook Strait cable is out. That Government failed to look after the infrastructure of this country, and it is hopeless for its members to start saying they have clear ideas of where the future lies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228fb2c75656446bdb771e858f63f5919\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement 9 weeks ago that \u201CThe Government is currently considering the best way of carrying out the update of the [New Zealand] Energy Strategy and I will make further announcements about this in the coming weeks.\u201D; if so, how many more coming weeks will have to pass before he makes his further announcements; if not, is it because his Government has no consistent energy policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220698ac579efa4c199083ad06784427ff\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I do stand by my statements, and the member has a lot of exciting things to look forward to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227f952e1d04a547cb93ee904fe867759b\u0022\u003EEconomic Stimulus Package, Housing\u2014Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200a1948d18e4407ab59137018d0b3b06\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (National\u2014Rangitata)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What has been the impact to date on employment as a result of the housing component of the Government\u2019s jobs and growth stimulus package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d95e12a0dafd426f9d8656e06fd0c308\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d95e12a0dafd426f9d8656e06fd0c308\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I was pleased to announce early last week that in fact 935 people were in jobs in March due to the money set aside earlier this year under the stimulus package. Those jobs include work both for upgrades and house construction and we are employing people across the sector. We are talking about design consultants, carpenters, joiners, plumbers, electricians, roofers, insulators, gardeners, and others. It is, quite frankly, fantastic news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eea294acb794dc7b77a7d899a878f81\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: How does this work fulfil commitments made by the National Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237e7e0df4b29417cab3f413d4c9d8fb3\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member will recall that when the package was announced we made it clear that this work would keep people in jobs and that is what we are doing. Also, the Government\u2019s job summit raised the need to accelerate initiatives to open up opportunities for employment\u2014and we have delivered on that too. We are also delivering on clear commitments to improve the standards of existing Housing New Zealand Corporation stock. That is something that I think the whole country now knows was neglected by the previous Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3f4bffd07bd465cac668a61284b534a\u0022\u003EHon George Hawkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister see the irony in this Government congratulating itself for creating jobs when an estimated 1,160 jobs have been lost so far thanks to this Government\u2019s public sector cuts and a huge opportunity to create more jobs was lost when this Government put the brakes on the Hobsonville State housing project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3a4ffdf3a76428f9f4068395a42647b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I find that quite interesting because Cabinet papers show that the Hobsonville development was passed by Cabinet in 2002. Mr Gosche announced it at that time. I remember that after that Steve Maharey announced it a few years later. I believe Chris Carter announced it after that, and then Maryan Street. When I became Minister of Housing in 2008 there were no consents for Hobsonville; I found out that earthworks had not begun, and not a single house had been built. But now that National is in Government, we have the consents, the earthworks are about to start, and we are actually going to build some houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a26d30f203a24ce1a279a02b074495de\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: What impact is the stimulus package having on employment in the regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262b8703c11dd4fdb947d7019e9be92ff\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: When we initiated the package I asked the corporation to ensure that the contracting saw local builders and local tradespeople get work from the infrastructure package. The member from Napier witnessed it in Hawke\u2019s Bay last week, when a local tradesperson approached us and thanked us because he was able to keep in work and to employ an extra person. That is happening right across the country. We are delighted that it is affecting people\u2019s lives so positively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225cc4fe4a657b4c2f838cb5ba745acab9\u0022\u003ENational Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd\u2014Dr Jim Salinger\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210e0ce3dad314ecf9a9e8aa5d2bc760f\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Research, Science and Technology: Does he stand by his statement in the Dominion Post last Saturday that the dismissal of internationally renowned scientist Dr Jim Salinger from his position at the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research is \u201Can employment dispute, which must be handled by the chief executive and the board\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u00229134e5038f8742a088225bbfcdeb0844\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229134e5038f8742a088225bbfcdeb0844\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Research, Science and Technology):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d0d1aa36d69449ebe9b5301976d4040\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Is there ever a point where an employment issue justifies his intervention as Minister because of its potential effects on the quality of science and on New Zealand\u2019s international reputation; if so, does he think that the dismissal of a Nobel Laureate on grounds that appear to the public to be quite flimsy might be such a point?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022832c2ae22c8f43949580e05eb1e8eeb1\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: The chief executive of the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research, Mr Morgan, and the chair of the board, Sue Suckling, came and saw me on the matter, in accordance with the no-surprises policy. I advised them that this was a matter for the chief executive officer and the board since it was an employment matter, and was not a matter for the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a267bd4cde248ddb679ee121b18c591\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister reconsider his position in the light of the considerable overseas consternation about the dismissal of a Nobel Laureate of Dr Salinger\u2019s status and call in the board of the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research again and ask for an assurance that this action by its chief executive was justified, so that we do not, in the words of our Prime Minister, \u201Ccontinue to export scientists and import taxi drivers\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b50099278f8640fa8d077d2ac7e86332\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of Dr Salinger\u2019s work and reputation. However, as I have said previously, this is an employment matter and is a matter strictly for the board and the chief executive officer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a583a75385dc4b82993342cade83695f\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister undertake to write to all Crown research institute chief executives this week, assuring them that all publicly employed scientists are still entitled, and, indeed, encouraged, to make scientific information publicly available, including in circumstances where such information may contradict Government policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ff23e1a69b44dc887e4f9aee72edea\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: There is an operating framework\u2014in fact, prepared by the previous Government\u2014that still is current, which states there must be good employment practices conducted by all of the Crown research institutes. I would assume that all of the employees and, indeed, the boards would operate under that practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c8c15320dbe4daa9d04f5111f1e13b6\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I specifically asked whether the Minister would undertake to write to the chief executives this week, and I do not believe that he answered that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a2f0bad6a804ed882d68c81cc397306\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot elicit out of a Minister a yes or no answer, but the member does have a further supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278d6520486b9465896132396d1422323\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: In refusing to call in the board of the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research to further investigate this issue, is the Minister telling the House that based on his information, Dr Salinger is not telling the truth in his public comments about his sacking being unfair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222395d50182f45219440768970a62610\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: This is a matter for the board and the chief executive officer, and that is where the issue shall lie. It is not a matter for the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022843d4ca9fab24162ae6f96025828c7fc\u0022\u003EASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a51da3676e22471a8c929e781d56ee21\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0e0135cbd8f47fd95a0446939415b44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0e0135cbd8f47fd95a0446939415b44\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee with an instruction to the committee that it present its report to the House on or before 25 May 2009. A report presented by the committee on or before 25 May will enable New Zealand to remain on course to complete its domestic procedures for the purposes of the agreement\u2019s entry into force by 1 July 2009. That is the target date set by the parties to the agreement for its entry into force. For that to occur, New Zealand, Australia, and at least four members of the Association of South-east Asian Nations (ASEAN) must have notified the parties that they have completed their domestic procedures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThis 12-country, region-to-region free-trade agreement is of both commercial and strategic significance. It opens new commercial opportunities for New Zealand businesses and investors, and it integrates our economy more closely with South-east Asia\u2014a region of critical importance. I think the strategic significance to New Zealand\u2019s future prosperity from access to the 10-country ASEAN market should not be underestimated. In terms of political leadership, I acknowledge a number of people who have contributed to this initiative over a very long period of time. The first is the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith, a former Minister of International Trade, who was responsible for initiating the Singapore - New Zealand free-trade agreement. That spawned a thinktank expert group for this very agreement, chaired by the then Deputy Prime Minister of Australia Tim Fischer, with New Zealand being represented by the Rt Hon Bill Birch. Second, I acknowledge the further work done by my two predecessors in the previous Government, the Hon Jim Sutton and the Hon Phil Goff, for their political leadership of this initiative. It has had widespread support over a very long period of time, and I think there are some very important and obvious lessons that arise about the importance of continuity of policy in this area of interest to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThe ASEAN market of more than 566 million people is already New Zealand\u2019s third-largest export market for merchandise goods. It was worth approximately NZ$4.6 billion in the year to June 2008, and New Zealand exports to the ASEAN region have grown at an astonishing compound average rate of growth of 24 percent over each of the past 3 years. Incidentally, that rate of growth was faster than our rate of exports to China. It is clear that the ASEAN region is a critical one for New Zealand exports not only for outward investment but also for our wider economy and our future. We are a small, export-driven, and trade-dependent economy, though it is my strong view that we have a great deal of work to do to increase the trade orientation of the New Zealand economy. Trading prosperity provides the basis for much of the current employment in this country and the continuing economic viability of this country. Improving market access for New Zealand firms through a progressive trade agenda, including through this particular agreement that we are examining for the first time today, will stimulate economic growth and will help create and safeguard New Zealand jobs. Let me emphasise that not just in this country but also around the world most research indicates that in the export sector we get higher-quality and higher-paid jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThe ASEAN free-trade agreement, like all of our free-trade agreements, helps to create an environment that makes it easier, more profitable, and more predictable for New Zealand businesses to enter markets and to do business in those markets. Now, as we find ourselves in the greatest period of economic downturn since the Great Depression of the 1930s, securing new market access is more critical than ever. New Zealand stands to lose from protectionist measures, which have a severe impact on trade and investment flows. I think that is well understood up and down the country. This agreement provides some considerable assurance against that long-term threat. It ensures that New Zealand businesses remain at the cutting and competitive edge, benefiting from tariff reductions and a greater certainty of access. In the face of global pressures towards economic protectionism, this agreement is a welcome sign that the ASEAN nations and New Zealand\u2019s CER partner, Australia, are committed to staying open for business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIn the area of goods exports, the outcome secured by the agreement is an excellent one. Over time New Zealand will benefit from the elimination of 99 percent of tariffs on exports to the four key markets in ASEAN\u2014Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Viet Nam. On day one of the entry into force of this agreement, 70 percent of New Zealand\u2019s current exports to these key ASEAN markets will be duty-free. In a sense, a very large part of the job will happen immediately once the agreement enters into force. We do not have to wait the full 10-year period or 12-year period for this to start having substantial benefits for New Zealand goods and services, and for the people whose employment is sustained by those companies. That figure on day one\u201470 percent\u2014will rise to nearly 85 percent by 2016, which is not too far away. On full implementation, under current levels of trade this will equate to an annual duty saving of approximately $50 million. Whether or not that is a gross underestimate\u2014which I suspect it is\u2014depends on the future growth of New Zealand exports to the ASEAN region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThe ASEAN free-trade agreement does more than simply address tariff lines for merchandise trade. As we all know, services are becoming an increasingly important part of our export economy. Our growth rate and services is actually somewhat better than the average OECD growth rate. It is not just the old story about agriculture\u2014important though agriculture will be to our future. For New Zealand exporters of services, the ASEAN free-trade agreement represents some real gains. For example, the ASEAN countries have gone further for New Zealand than they have currently undertaken in respect of their World Trade Organization services commitments under the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS). This includes taking on commitments made in New Zealand\u2019s priority service sectors, which include education services and engineering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThe free-trade agreement also helps New Zealanders investing in the region. They benefit from new and additional protections, including the potential for recourse to binding investor-State arbitration procedures. New Zealand business people will also benefit from new provisions and disciplines that facilitate their movement across and within the region. The agreement includes robust and transparent dispute settlement procedures in order to resolve any trade-related disputes that may arise. It is a commonplace but correct observation that as countries increase their trade, inevitably the number of disputes will rise. In addition to this aspect of the agreement, New Zealand has also concluded legally binding agreements on trade and labour, and trade and environment with the Philippines. These build on existing instruments in other areas of the ASEAN grouping\u2014Thailand, Brunei, and Singapore\u2014and we have ongoing processes to try to advance these objectives in respect of Indonesia and Malaysia. So it is an iterative process. These agreements enhance communication and cooperation on these issues, and aid the objectives of raising working standards and improving environmental protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThis agreement has a direct bearing on New Zealand\u2019s future in the Asia-Pacific region. The ASEAN free-trade agreement represents an important building block in the wider east Asia region, and underscores New Zealand\u2019s strategic commitment to greater regional integration. It is also strongly in our interests to do what we can to ensure that any moves in the Asia-Pacific region towards closer regional economic integration remain open and outward looking. By concluding this agreement, New Zealand remains very well positioned to retain and play a proactive role in further regional initiatives such as the potential closer economic partnership with east Asia. This is a potential free-trade area that would encompass the 10 members of ASEAN, New Zealand, and Australia\u2014that is, the same countries we are talking about today\u2014plus India, South Korea, China, and Japan. The bill amends New Zealand law to comply with the ASEAN free-trade agreement, thereby enabling New Zealand to bring the agreement into force. This requires certain amendments to the Tariff Act 1988 and some other consequential changes to legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThe Government would like to commend this bill to the House and to see the bill enacted by 4 June 2009 to meet the target date of 1 July 2009 for entry into force. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u002265adbad585514b72be92d57c27c1162b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265adbad585514b72be92d57c27c1162b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Opposition, in the usual pattern of bipartisanship on developing market access to new economies for our businesses, very much supports the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill. This bill will bring into effect a free-trade agreement with Australia and the countries of ASEAN. It was my privilege in May of last year to conclude those negotiations, and I congratulate Tim Groser on having the privilege of being able to sign it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI think we had an incredibly good year for trade last year. We concluded the free-trade agreement with China, the first free-trade agreement that China has had with any developed country, and then we developed, worked through, and concluded the negotiations with ASEAN. China is our fourth-largest trading partner, but ASEAN, collectively, is our third-largest. It is a critically important market. ASEAN has 575 million people as part of it. It has become more and more important, over time, as a destination for our merchandise goods, our services, and our investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI think Tim Groser mentioned that over the last 3 years this market has grown, on average, by 24 percent a year. That rate of growth is higher than that of China. It is a market that is expanding, and it is a market that is at the core of the most economically progressive part of the world\u2014the fastest growing and the fastest developing area of the world. We send something like $4.6 billion of exports into that market\u2014those are the figures to June 2008\u2014and therefore it is critical for our exporters to gain the advantages of a free-trade agreement and, ultimately, free-market access for 99 percent of our current exporters into that market by 2020. That is a huge step forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIt was not a straightforward process to negotiate. The negotiation took 3 years. In Singapore last year I attended the 15th round of those trade negotiations. That indicates that it was a tough agreement to achieve. There were big obstacles to overcome, but we got there. That is a real achievement, and there is a sense of satisfaction for all of us as New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EAs Tim Groser knows, we have to acknowledge our professionals in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade for doing the nuts and bolts work\u2014the critical hard work of a negotiation. I want to make reference to two of our very best trade negotiators\u2014Martin Harvey, who started the process, and Vangelis Vitalis, who completed the round. I have huge respect for both of those people, and I pay tribute to them and to their teams for their skill, their hard work, their commitment, and their sheer perseverance. We went to Singapore uncertain that we would complete the round. We knew that it was vital to do so. There was a series of problems that we had to overcome, but I will not go into the details of those in this House. They worked at the official levels, and they did a superb job. I worked at the political level. I tried to reach an agreement, which, in the end, has to be a political agreement. In the end we got there, and I think that that is an enormously important achievement for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe agreement was actually the first time that the ASEAN countries had negotiated a comprehensive agreement as part of a single undertaking. That means that the agreement simultaneously covered goods, services, and investment, as well as other areas that one would expect in a modern free-trade agreement, such as intellectual property. New Zealand exporters are currently paying around $50 million a year in tariffs in order to trade with those economies. At a simple level, that means that the saving for New Zealand businesses will be $50 million a year when we finally implement this agreement. But, actually, it is much more important than that, because a free-trade agreement does a lot more to provide the foundation to expand exports into that market. Not only does it eliminate the tariffs on all of our key exporters by 2020 but also it means that our businesses have protected access into those markets and they have competitive advantage over the other countries that are also working to sell their goods and services into those markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut we took another factor into consideration, which was the regionalisation process in the Asian area. There was real concern at one point that with free-trade agreements being negotiated within the region that were not necessarily outward looking, we could have found ourselves locked out of a very vital market. It was critical for New Zealand to engage in that regionalisation process. It was also critical to become part of a free-trade agreement with the ASEAN countries, part of the closer economic partnership for east Asia through the East Asia Summit, and also to look at what we could negotiate in terms of a regional free-trade agreement through APEC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThose goals are important, but they are not immediately achievable. This agreement was achievable, and we have got into the markets through that free-trade agreement. That will prove vital for us at a time when trade this year is likely to diminish for the first time since World War II. Pascal Lamy said trade internationally will diminish by 9 to 10 percent this year. At a time of recession there is a mood, regrettably, of protectionism. Protectionism is very good if it works just one way; that is, if a country protects its borders against imports coming in but the other countries it trades with welcome its exports with open arms. Clearly, that does not happen. The problem with protectionism is that it does not protect jobs; it destroys jobs, because protectionism invites retaliatory action. For us as a trading nation it is critically important that we protect our jobs in the export area by ensuring that we have access to our markets. It is also a fact in favour of free-trade agreements that when a country increases its trade by about 10 percent, the latest figures from the OECD suggest that that will increase its per capita income by around 4 percent. So trade is a way in which we build up our wealth and our employment opportunities for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI think this agreement is critically important, but by itself it is not sufficient. The free-trade agreement that we are separately negotiating with Malaysia will be very important. That is a big market for us. My sense is that good progress was, and is, being made in that area. In Korea, which is not part of ASEAN but part of North Asia, we are seeing good progress, and we will see a free-trade agreement delivered in that area. I hope also that we will be able to make progress when the American administration has settled its trade policy with the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement. That encompasses the P4 countries\u2014New Zealand, Chile, Brunei, and Singapore\u2014with the United States, Australia, Peru, and Viet Nam coming in as well. That is critically important because the United States is our second-biggest trading market. It is also critically important because if we succeed in that then we will get a forward momentum that will see other countries in the Asia-Pacific region wanting to become part of that free-market agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI will conclude on the other area that I know that Tim Groser is very familiar with and will be working hard on, and that is the area of concluding the Doha round. Free-trade agreements are good, but the thing that bilateral free-trade agreements do not achieve is dealing with the problems of export incentives, agricultural subsidies, and overall tariff levels. We need to conclude the Doha round of World Trade Organization talks in order to achieve those objectives. At a time when there is recession, the Europeans have brought back export incentives. Under the Doha round they would be eliminated by 2013. There is a huge difference between the applied rate of tariffs in the world at the moment and the bound rates. Doha will bring down the bound rates and stop countries lifting their tariff levels. This agreement is good, but it is part of a wider whole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8398a7132d849b1baa0dc1d02fdab2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8398a7132d849b1baa0dc1d02fdab2f\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I will begin by setting a little context to this somewhat anodyne discussion. First of all, I see this agreement as being fundamentally important, because it will help to consolidate and underpin our world market democracies. The legislation that has been introduced by my colleague Tim Groser this afternoon, the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill, is an example of history on the move. If we think about developments in the last 20 or 30 years, we rapidly come to understand that there are about 137 countries on the planet that, more or less, practise free elections, and 82 of those countries have executive power controlled by a Parliament like ours. What does that mean in the market place? It means that, between 1980 and 2008, world GDP multiplied by three times. Trade in industrial products, however, grew 25 times. If we think about production across the planet, we see that in that same period\u2014from 1980 to 2008\u2014there has been an increase in production valued at \u20AC40 trillion. Industrial production has grown by 4 percent per year, which is a rate never previously achieved in the history of our world. If we look at what has been going on since about 1985, we can see that exports between countries on the planet amount to roughly 13 percent of global GDP, a percentage never achieved since 1913.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EAs this trade is going on we are also seeing power relationships changing, in relative terms. Newspapers continue to report about American stagnation, and many of us know that Europe is in decline. Counter to that, Asia is climbing. Asia had an annual growth rate across all of Asia of 6 percent in 2008, but from 1980 to 2008 Asian GDP multiplied by four times, China\u2019s GDP multiplied by three times, India\u2019s GDP multiplied by three times, and Europe\u2019s GDP multiplied by only two. So Asia\u2019s share of world trade has climbed from 16 to 28 percent over the period from 1980 to 2008. Over that same time frame America managed to keep only a 21 percent market share, and Europe declined from 28 to 20 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ESo we see a global environment where America and Europe are losing ground. Those economies are experiencing declining productivity. They are encountering fading competitiveness, and dynamism is on the wane. Their populations are ageing. In 1992 European nations adopted a common currency, but they are still at a point where Europeans even today do not have an integrated market economy. In 2008 per capita GDP in Europe was 25 percent below that of the USA. Industry is leaving Europe. Where is it going? It is going to Asia. The Pacific Ocean\u2014in our part of the world\u2014is fast becoming the world\u2019s most important body of water. In 1990 trans-Pacific trade outstripped trans-Atlantic trade by 50 percent. If we think about the countries around the rim of the Pacific, we see that nine of the world\u2019s 12 greatest ports are located on the Asian seaboard of the Pacific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EIt is against that background that I see this agreement as being incredibly important. It will link us to an ASEAN market, across those 10 member States, of 566 million people. It will link us into an economy of US$1,400 billion of global trade. As my colleague Phil Goff pointed out, ASEAN is New Zealand\u2019s third-largest market for merchandised goods, and it is our third-largest trading partner. So why is this agreement important? Well, aside from plugging us into this dynamic part of the world, the free-trade agreement will facilitate trade in goods and services by reducing and eliminating barriers, by providing greater certainty to New Zealand manufacturers, by providing transparency, and by reducing associated transaction costs for New Zealand businesses wishing to operate in ASEAN markets. It also provides additional protection for New Zealand investors investing in that part of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe free-trade agreement is not about just economics. As well as the immediate commercial benefits that most companies in our electorates will be concerned with, the free-trade agreement also represents a really important building block in the development of our relationships with South-east Asia. We have been seriously working on that\u2014certainly since I was posted in Singapore back in the late 1970s. We really have to make a broad strategic commitment for greater regional integration amongst our Asian neighbours. They are the communities and the economies that are growing. This free-trade agreement is part of a broader process of regional integration being developed through a range of groupings in the Asia-Pacific region, such as the East Asia Summit and other ASEAN-related processes in the APEC forum, of which many New Zealanders are well aware.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI think the conclusion of this free-trade agreement, when it comes back to this House from the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, will help to ensure that New Zealand remains an integral part of this unfolding regionalism and that this process remains open and focused in an outward direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EA number of advantages will accrue to companies in New Zealand once this agreement comes into force on 1 July this year. Tariff elimination will generate the most immediate gains. In 2010 we can expect over $429 million worth of current exports to Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines. These exports will include, in some markets, butter, milk powder, cheese, wool, kiwifruit, apples\u2014including apples from my home town of Greytown\u2014and some manufactured products like those that come from the metal craft industry in Dannevirke. Those products, covering 28 percent of the total current exports from New Zealand to Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Viet Nam, will enter those markets duty-free. When that happens, 70 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total current exports will enter those markets duty-free in 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EBetween 2011 and 2015 we will save another $60 million on current exports to Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines, covering things like beef, wine\u2014which is, again, produced in my electorate\u2014apples, onions, aluminium, and iron and steel products. Then, in 2016, we will gain more benefits from the export of $137 million worth of products to Viet Nam, like milk powder, paper, and those sorts of products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u00220c965dca4b744495a8bf1c7809485310\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c965dca4b744495a8bf1c7809485310\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E There seems to be a remarkable outbreak of peace across the Chamber on the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill. But I am aware the speaker following me will be from the Green Party, and I want to make some remarks to which I hope he or she will respond. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI should start as the Minister of Trade, Tim Groser, did and acknowledge the history of this agreement. I acknowledge its beginnings in Singapore with the work of the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith, and the work of Jim Sutton in ASEAN and in many other parts of the world\u2014most notably China. I also acknowledge the work of the Hon Phil Goff in various parts of the world, and his role, which he mentioned, in getting the political closure on this agreement last year. As a member of Cabinet at that time, I remember well the sense of excitement as we moved closer to that agreement because of its importance to us. I will not reiterate all the figures that have been given by other speakers, but if this is our third-largest export market and our combined average growth rate over the past 3 years from New Zealand to those markets has been 24 percent in the absence of a free-trade agreement, then that is a remarkable achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EIt is an achievement that, one assumes, will be improved on what it would otherwise be without the presence of that free-trade agreement. I want to acknowledge, as indeed the previous speaker has, the extent to which trade has changed over recent years. This is not quite the same analysis as that of the chairman of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, but a different one since he has already given his. I do not dispute anything he said, but I add some observations around the role of agreements on trade and the environment to the contributions in the House. Such agreements, even 12 years ago, were considered completely impossible, simply a challenge, and something that would bog down the agreement in tradable goods. Indeed, moving to services was itself quite big, but it is now an ordinary feature of our free-trade agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe other thing that has happened in recent years and continues to develop is that, on the New Zealand side, the internal processes we use are just becoming better and better. We ought to acknowledge the role of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, of Business New Zealand, and of the various groups that interact in that process. I refer to, for example, the trade union movement and many others that interact in the course of negotiations. The awareness within the New Zealand economy as to how these negotiations are going, or not going, gets better and better; the awareness that negotiators have on the particular effects of this or that clause on a particular company, such as Fisher and Paykel Appliances, are becoming more and more obvious; and the very vulnerable sectors\u2014and there are some; textiles, clothing, and footwear come to mind, but there are others\u2014are taken into account in a fairly free way. Then, of course, an agreement must be struck. An agreement is never struck so that there is only one winner, because that would not be an agreement. The other side would not come to the party; there has to be give and take. I am acknowledging that I think we have a more and more elaborate and open consultative process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that that consultative process does not involve the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, and maybe it should. It does involve Cabinet. Cabinet is given updates as these various negotiations come along, and it seems to me a reasonable proposition that it ought to be the case that the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u2014or another select committee, as is relevant\u2014is also briefed. Maybe, with some agreements, the Primary Production Committee should also be briefed. One reason why a select committee would not be briefed is that it does not have any natural expertise. But, you see, neither does Cabinet, except perhaps for the trade Minister of the day, the foreign affairs Minister of the day, the primary production Minister of the day, or the Prime Minister of the day. But, generally speaking, Cabinet is not comprised of experts, and neither is the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee. I put the idea on the table that it would help us as a group of parliamentarians if one or two of our select committees were briefed as a matter of routine to the level of detail that was deemed appropriate, so that people could be questioned about processes, progress, and outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe other comment I make concerns the Green Party. I do not believe the Green Party is anti-trade, but it certainly has misgivings about trade that are not shared by other parties. I think that if the Green Party was represented on select committees and was privy to information that National or Labour had whenever they have been in office\u2014and both parties have been\u2014then that may not only assist the Green Party\u2019s understanding of the process but also enhance the process itself, because the Green Party is thoroughly capable of coming up with suggestions or propositions. I would like Green Party members to respond to that if they want to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI make another comment to the Government. I am not convinced that this remarkable agreement involving a series of trading partners collectively bigger than China will be as well supported by New Zealand Trade and Enterprise as the agreement with China has been. I do not know that that is the case; I hope I am wrong. I note that New Zealand Trade and Enterprise\u2014which, of course, I generally perceive to be a very good outfit\u2014needs the support from this Government to ensure that our exporters have the opportunity to take advantage of this agreement as it comes into force. That was the case in China. There are stories all over the place about New Zealand businesses making progress\u2014some slow, some fast\u2014in various parts of China, and the role of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise in that progress. I think the role of beachheads in various parts of the ASEAN community needs to be explored. Generally speaking, New Zealand Trade and Enterprise might need to be bulked up in response to our free-trade agreements having essentially been bulked up. It used to be a big deal when we got ourselves a free-trade agreement with Singapore, which has a population of just over 4 million people. That pales in significance when we consider what progress we have made with our third and fourth-largest partners, and what progress we might make when the Obama administration has had an opportunity to consider its trade policy with our second-largest export partner. If the New Zealand export community is to ensure that it maximises its effects in these easier-to-access markets, then it will need a degree of support from New Zealand Trade and Enterprise. With those remarks, I congratulate the Government on introducing this legislation. I hope for its rapid and seamless passage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea1114ec80f5449083ccb1902eb2aaa5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea1114ec80f5449083ccb1902eb2aaa5\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Let me begin, if I may, by paying tribute to Minister Tim Groser for his personal skill, and that of his predecessors Phil Goff and others, in endeavouring to advance New Zealand\u2019s national interest in the trade negotiations. I also express my considerable appreciation to the previous speaker, Pete Hodgson, for his very thoughtful and constructive comments that, I should say, were inclusive in the sense of seeking to strike up constructive debate on this quite complex matter. I appreciate his concerns about Green Party policy on the question of trade. He is correct when he observes that the Green Party is not anti-trade per se; in fact, we simply harbour considerable concerns about certain aspects of certain free-trade agreements. We believe that some of these agreements do not meet the required standards to attract our support. Let me respond constructively and advance the debate by offering our views on this matter. I looked to the stated purposes of the free-trade agreement as they are set out in the national interest analysis, I looked to the report of the relevant committee, which identifies the stated reasons for the free-trade agreement, and I listened to the Minister this afternoon. In a sense the Minister summarised the report\u2014because I do not have much time. He stated: \u201CWe are a small, export-driven, and trade-dependent economy.\u201D Increased market access is critical to stimulate our economic growth. That, in essence, is the rationale for all free-trade agreements, whether it is the free-trade agreement with China, the ASEAN-Australia agreement, or others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe first fundamental critique we have to offer is what we take to be the obsessive concern about economic growth and commercial opportunity, which we do not hold as having the same absolute, untrammelled, uncritically questioned value that the Government does. We do not dispute the need for a sustainable economy; we do question the need for economic growth if it risks being unsustainable. That is the fundamental premise to be debating. It is not drawn out properly in the national interest analysis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ELet me be more specific. To respond to Mr Hodgson, I say that the Green Party is composed of rational individuals who will be prepared to switch policy if our concerns are properly refuted or decently answered. Let me offer four questions for the Government\u2014and, for that matter, Labour\u2014to answer convincingly. The first is the following. Why does the national interest analysis not include in the \u201Cdisadvantages\u201D section an estimate of the increased volume of trade in tonnage, not currency, and the increased greenhouse gas emissions that will ensue as a result of that increased tonnage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThis is the second question. Many of our domestic manufacturers are in a precarious economic position currently, finding it difficult to compete with the lower wage structure of their Asian competitors. We in the Green Party are concerned that the further phasing out of protections envisaged in this agreement could well lead to more factory closures in New Zealand. On 3 March the Minister of Trade, Tim Groser, welcomed the recent free-trade initiatives as \u201Cgood news for the New Zealand economy\u201D. He dismissed concerns that free-trade agreements, including the China agreement and, for that matter, the ASEAN one, would do businesses in New Zealand out of work. He stated that those concerns had \u201Czilch\u201D to do with free-trade agreements and international trade. So the second question to the Minister asks him to please define \u201Czilch\u201D and explain why there is no causal relationship between free-trade agreements and business closures in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThis is the third question. The services and investment provisions in the agreement are also of concern. Under this agreement firms based in the ASEAN countries must be allowed to provide the full range of financial services here, even those instruments that are currently under such scrutiny and criticism around the world. The agreement locks in light-handed regulation of the finance sector and capital markets, which is at the root of the global economic crisis. So the third question asks whether the Minister agrees with that observation\u2014and if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFinally, we in the Green Party are concerned at the agreement\u2019s application to Burma, in view of the call for economic sanctions of the Burmese pro-democracy leader, Aung San Suu Kyi. At a time when the United States and the European Union have responded to that call with sanctions, New Zealand firms under this agreement are being encouraged to invest in Burma, and these investments are being given further protection. So the fourth question asks what the Minister has to say to Suu Kyi. Will she be satisfied with his claim that this is good for the New Zealand economy\u2014is that enough? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u002245337ac961cb45f5ba2a9d61d4bfe2d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245337ac961cb45f5ba2a9d61d4bfe2d7\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E The figures at the core of this ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill are staggering. We are talking about a free-trade area with approximately 566 million people, a combined gross domestic product of US$1.9 trillion, and global trade of US$1.7 trillion. It is not easily ignored. This region represents one of the most economically dynamic markets in the world. Even in the Aotearoa-ASEAN relationship, trade and exports have grown an impressive 24 percent per year over the last 3 years. This is certainly a massive undertaking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe agreement, signed on 27 February this year, did not just formalise a commitment between Australia and New Zealand; the agreement also involves Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Viet Nam. Amongst the key guiding principles of the agreement is the objective to move towards deeper economic integration through the progressive elimination of all forms of barriers to trade in goods, services, and investment. It is designed to inspire and promote the facilitation of trade and investment, as well as measures of economic cooperation. It is also intended to be comprehensive in scope, covering trade in goods, services, and investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThis all sounds good in principle, and even more promising for practice, but here is the thing: the economic benefits of international trade agreements need to be balanced with consideration of our own local, regional, and national social progress and environmental enhancement. The M\u0101ori Party\u2019s mantra is that we support fair-trade agreements, as opposed to free-trade agreements. What do we mean by \u201Cfair\u201D instead of \u201Cfree\u201D? The Fair Trade Association of Australia and New Zealand works with the following definition: \u201CFair Trade is a trading partnership, based on dialogue, transparency and respect, that seeks greater equity in international trade. It contributes to sustainable development by offering better trading conditions to, and securing the rights of, marginalized producers and workers\u2014especially in the South.\u201D This is a big difference from what we would expect of conventional international trade. This bill provides for the application of preferential tariff rates for goods manufactured or produced by parties to the agreement, and for the ability to set different tariff rates of duty for the parties. It provides for the application of transitional safeguard measures to be applied on imports originating from agreement party countries, and it will enable the New Zealand Customs Service to designate certification bodies authorised to issue New Zealand certificates of origin for goods exported to party countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAt its very core, the agreement includes investment, intellectual property rights, competition policy, financial services, and telecommunications. There is nothing wrong with that, but, alongside the conventional concepts of free trade, we in the M\u0101ori Party also want to see demonstrable evidence of fair trade as a just and environmentally sustainable alternative. We want to see attention paid to labour and environmental justice issues, and to human rights. The fair-trade movement would enable items to be produced with only a minimal impact on the environment, with the cost of environmental sustainability being a key consideration in the equation. Importantly, although there are clearly advantages to exporters if a fair-trade framework was applied, it also enables an opportunity for both producers and consumers to challenge unfair trading practices. At its heart, it is about balancing the profits and benefits of international trade with the strengths of grassroots development and economic justice. Yet, in this ASEAN free-trade agreement, just as in the China - New Zealand free-trade agreement, the treaties on labour and the environment are not sufficiently robust to guarantee minimum standards or commitments to establish minimum standards on labour issues or environmental standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EIn terms of labour law, New Zealand manufacturers and businesses, in further removing tariffs on imports into New Zealand, are further exposed to competition that they may be unable to match, given the differences in wages between New Zealand and ASEAN countries. Of course, it is not just at home that we need to be thinking of the impacts of this new ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill. We need to also be considering the likelihood of low pay, unsafe working environments, poor living conditions, and exclusion from the decisions that affect the lives of the populations living in the 10 member countries of ASEAN. How will this free-trade agreement make any difference to their poverty and suffering? What opportunity have they had to participate in the decisions around this agreement? How does it assist these countries\u2019 producers to escape the cycle of poverty? When we think of the second issue\u2014the environment\u2014it is arguable that New Zealand\u2019s current environmental laws are sufficient to protect the natural estate. As we know, M\u0101ori have raised concerns with the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act and genetic experimentation, the Conservation Act 1987, the Crown Minerals Act 1991, and fisheries legislation. We are hardly in a position to stand strong about our environmental laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAnother of the measures introduced in the bill is the undertaking that there is nothing in this agreement that prevents the New Zealand Government from taking any measure it deems necessary to accord more favourable treatment to M\u0101ori, given its Treaty of Waitangi obligations. This is interesting wording, and it is clearly not sufficient to ensure the Government will act in accordance with such obligations. If recent events are anything to go by, we have every reason for caution. Just yesterday, in the Emissions Trading Scheme Review Committee, we were told that the scheme was unfair on M\u0101ori, who will reclaim 600 hectares of pre-1990 forests in Treaty settlements. Under the terms of the emissions trading scheme, landowners are liable if they deforest more than 200 hectares of pre-1990 forest land. The Climate Change Iwi Leadership Group told the committee that the bulk of M\u0101ori forestry is pre-1990, and, of course, the Auckland super-city situation is even more conclusive evidence that Treaty of Waitangi obligations are easily and quickly discarded when the rule of the majority interest prevails. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EFinally, I believe that the timing of this bill, coming into Parliament this week, is particularly significant. This weekend New Zealand starts a Fair Trade Fortnight, symbolised by the \u201CGo Bananas for Fairtrade\u201D campaign. As a country, New Zealand imports the highest per capita number of bananas in the world, but the majority of banana plantation workers are unable to earn enough to live on and to support their families, with some earning less than $3 a day. So it is the humble banana that I have been thinking of when considering the local cost of production in contrast with the corporates that dominate the global banana trade. Will ASEAN offer a better deal for producers? Will there be security of long-term contracts? Will we see an investment in local community development? How will working conditions improve as a result of the agreement? Will any changes be made to achieve fair and stable prices for produce? Will there be knowledge acquisition of a scale necessary to compete in the global economy? With all of these questions on our mind, we are unable to vote in support of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u00225e297f772e714637bbb66c6c413adf09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e297f772e714637bbb66c6c413adf09\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Dr Paul Hutchison, I would just like to offer an apology to Rahui Katene. I had mixed her name up previously. I thought to myself that I must not do it on this occasion, and that is exactly what I did. I am sorry; I promise to get it right on every occasion in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022a72e9a3ac10e4329bfb0f6845489a848\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a72e9a3ac10e4329bfb0f6845489a848\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, for the opportunity to speak on this landmark and historic ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill. I too want to acknowledge some of those responsible for the bill\u2019s genesis, and in particular the trade Minister, the Hon Tim Groser, who has worked hard and long in this area for New Zealand. It is great to have him as the National Government trade Minister. Also, like various others, I acknowledge the fact that this bill has had a long genesis over a great deal of time. It has been mentioned by Pete Hodgson that the Hon Lockwood Smith, back in the days of the New Zealand - Singapore free-trade agreement, had a lot to do with the beginnings of this bill, and in the 1990s, of course, it was the Rt Hon Sir William Birch, followed by the Hon Jim Sutton, and more recently by the Leader of the Opposition, Phil Goff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that this is an extremely important bill. It does give huge opportunities for New Zealand exports, including of course our vital primary exports. But it does not mean only export opportunities, and I think it is important to point that out to Dr Kennedy Graham. It also means closer ties culturally and politically in a very wide region that is becoming increasingly important to New Zealand. I noted that the Hon Phil Goff mentioned the importance of a bipartisan approach to such vital foreign affairs and trade legislation as this, and of course we absolutely agree with that sentiment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EIt is worthwhile to think back a little to the importance and the origin of ASEAN, the Association of South-east Asian Nations, which was founded in 1967 and is central to New Zealand\u2019s relations with Asia itself. There is no doubt that this area is a major regional, political, and economic grouping, with a population of over 500 million people. New Zealand became a dialogue partner, in the technical term, of ASEAN in 1974 and joined the ASEAN regional forum in 1994, and in 2005 it acceded to the ASEAN Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia. Again I think this is one area where it is appropriate to point out to Dr Kennedy Graham that all these issues are not about an unbridled obsession with economic growth. They are far wider and deeper than that. I think the Greens should put that in perspective. In 1995 ASEAN and the Closer Economic Relations trade and economic Ministers agreed to establish a dialogue to facilitate trade and investment linkages between the two regions, and in 1996 ASEAN and the Closer Economic Relations Ministers signed a memorandum of understanding to promote cooperation on standards and conformance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EParticipation in ASEAN provides an opportunity for New Zealand to contribute to evolving regional views on security, and on political and economic developments. As we think about the Pacific in these days, in these troubled times with Fiji, and where there were difficulties with Timor-Leste, Tonga, and of course Bougainville, we realise it is very important to be able to have solid relationships in this wider area so that the dialogue that we have is one of constructiveness and reasonable familiarity, so that hopefully these issues can be solved in a useful way. Participation also provides an opportunity for New Zealand to underline its credentials as a committed and responsible member of the Asia-Pacific community, and again this is a rebuttal to the Green member Dr Kennedy Graham\u2019s suggestion that there is an obsession with economic growth. Economic growth is absolutely important; it has huge benefits. How else would we manage to achieve a good health service, a good social welfare service, and all the facilities that New Zealanders believe are very important to them, if we do not get sustained economic growth? But the point is that ASEAN membership certainly reinforces our bilateral relationships with ASEAN and individual member countries, and it also provides the ability to exchange views with other dialogue partners that are major influences in the Asian region and beyond, right throughout the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThis trade agreement is significant as it represents closer relationships with key countries in South-east Asia. It is important that we establish trade partners that have huge potential for an increase in trade, and other members have pointed out just how large the potential is. It is also important that New Zealand can assist developing countries through closer economic relationships. The Hon Steve Chadwick and I were part of a team of New Zealand parliamentarians who went to a climate change and population conference in Viet Nam recently. Again, this was very useful in terms of our debate on the revision of the emissions trading system, and it was very useful for the links that we made with Viet Nam. It is important to realise that Viet Nam itself is a country where we have had extraordinary growth in trade in recent times. For example, Viet Nam is a rapidly growing export market. In 2007 exports were $362 million, roughly double those in 2005. If we can keep on doubling those exports, we will certainly be doing extremely well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that the other effect that this bill creates is more certainty in trade relations with other countries, which makes doing business more profitable\u2014and there is everything right with that; there is nothing wrong with it whatsoever. As I have tried to point out, the remarks of the Greens about an obsession with economic growth are clearly not true. This bill is involved with a whole spectrum of activities that are very important to New Zealand: cultural, diplomatic, and political activities. It is also important to remember that the economic downturn that we are currently suffering will increase protectionist actions in other nations, and this agreement will counter that by opening opportunities in other potentially lucrative markets. It opens the doors to investment and the provision of services in areas where New Zealand is currently unable to meet demand, and the agreement with the Philippines on trade, labour, and the environment provides certainty that the human rights and environmental standards that we value are maintained by our close trading partner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that this bill is a significant step towards closer relations and it opens the door for further development in the future. This means that New Zealand is in the centre of these developments. The free-trade agreement has strong support from the New Zealand business community, and also from many of the newer immigrants from this very wide region who have come into our country over the last few decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00222aee4d805f404524bb73386ec1746394\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222aee4d805f404524bb73386ec1746394\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill for a number of reasons. First and foremost, this bill implements a major agreement achieved by the last Labour Government. If I were wearing a hat I would doff it in respect to the Hon Phil Goff and the Rt Hon Helen Clark for the years of work they have done to arrive at such an important trade agreement. I also congratulate Minister Groser on being in the right position, with the right skills, to collect a pass 5 metres from the try line and to dive over the line under the posts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELabour and National tend to act in a bipartisan and cooperative way when it comes to international trade deals, which is wonderful for the country. The passing of this bill will be the conversion of a Labour vision of greater international engagement for New Zealand\u2019s companies\u2014a great victory for New Zealand businesses. Let us just hope that the new Minister for Economic Development does not cut the staff and budget of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise. I hope that Minister Brownlee will please provide the businessmen and businesswomen of New Zealand with the certainty they now need in order to take advantage of this Labour bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EOf course, I also support this bill because it opens up enormous opportunities for New Zealand businesses that are either currently engaged in export activity or thinking about entering export markets. As mentioned by other speakers, the ASEAN market has over half a billion people and accounts for approximately $1.4 billion in global trade. It is a market that is slowly embracing consumerism, with the growth of an aspirational middle class that is demanding the type of niche consumables and primary products that New Zealand excels at producing. Unfortunately, the growth of this middle class has slowed considerably with the current economic crisis, but this combined market had grown at a rate of 24 percent per year before the economic crisis hit. Hence, it has still been a very important trading bloc over the past 3 years. A free-trade agreement will not only maintain but significantly help the sustainable growth of this important market, as New Zealand exporters currently pay around $50 million in tariffs annually in trade with these nations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EExport growth is the only way forward for New Zealand. Organisations like Federated Farmers have applauded the Hon Phil Goff for his work on this free-trade agreement. That organisation has said of the agreement: \u201CDespite all the doom and gloom in the other sectors, it strategically sets New Zealand up for the long haul and farmers appreciate that,\u201D. The Wellington Regional Chamber of Commerce chief executive has commented: \u201CI would like to congratulate Phil Goff and his officials for their hard work and successful outcome.\u201D, and Alasdair Thompson from the Northern Employers and Manufacturers Association has said: \u201COverseas Trade Minister Phil Goff is to be congratulated for his work in expediting the ASEAN/CER FTA for New Zealand,\u201D. I think that all in this House would agree that the Hon Phil Goff was a very hard-working Minister of Trade, and the previous quotes, this bill, and the Chinese free-trade agreement are testament to the fact that all New Zealanders, and especially those engaged in any form of international trade, are eternally grateful for the work of the Hon Phil Goff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a9ca49b58de4957984bb0d7eac284ca\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re praising the wrong guy\u2014he won\u2019t be there much longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee7d6ca73b6b45a0a63240a27a44c62c\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: He will be Prime Minister; the member is dead right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe all agree that increasing the number of free-trade agreements is very much in the best interests of New Zealand going forward. I think that even our Minister over there would agree on that\u2014oh, he is not a Minister and probably never will be. I am confused; I could not see a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb9ef03de5f843d6a107cb15037c03eb\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: He can\u2019t even ask a patsy question; that\u2019s about as bad as it gets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ccf9a13a94b4373a6a0967e1ed9bd40\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Shh! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn these times of uncertainty, opening up global trade routes is even more important as we are currently seeing the return of traditional methods of protectionism through tariffs, quotas, and discriminatory rules. Pascal Lamy, the director of the World Trade Organization\u2014which was once headed up by former Labour Prime Minister Mike Moore\u2014has said that \u201CTrade is already a casualty of this recession,\u201D. There has been a huge drop in trade flows, which, of course, creates unemployment. Some examples are of concern; I will give the House an example. The Indian trade Minister stated that \u201CIf there are protectionist measures India will be compelled to also take commensurate measures against those countries which will be good for no one.\u201D As most of us will know, we are in the early stages of investigating a free-trade agreement with India, so these developments are of concern. Mr Lamy has said that he recognises the intense political pressures faced by Governments in this time of recession and looming unemployment. However, the European Union\u2019s trade commissioner, Baroness Ashton, has noted that legislators will need education on the benefits of free trade and the completion of the Doha round of world trade talks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand, however, we must be very careful in promoting trade as the sole saviour of the New Zealand economy. Although the lower dollar is certainly helpful in increasing export returns, and makes us more competitive at a time of falling commodity prices, we are kidding ourselves if we believe that this recession is merely a global dip that will improve in the very near future. US households, which account for nearly a quarter of global consumption\u2014amazing, is it not\u2014have very much tightened their belts, battened down the hatches, and closed their wallets. McKinsey and Company, a global management consultancy, has suggested that American households will need to be frugal for at least 10 to 20 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EReduced US consumption has serious global trade implications. For example, Japan\u2019s volume of customs-based exports fell by 45.6 percent in the year to March. This year the volume of world trade will probably fall for the first time since 1982, and the worth of net private sector capital flows to emerging markets is likely to fall to US$165 billion\u2014that sounds like a lot, but it is falling from a high of US$929 billion in 2007. The International Monetary Fund expects global output to shrink by 1.3 percent this year\u2014its first fall in 60 years. As Rod Oram has commented, globalisation is suffering its biggest reversal in the modern era. That is why free-trade agreements like this one are so important. But it is also why it is very, very important that New Zealand businesses have support in place to help them take advantage of any opportunity that presents itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe should consider that 96 percent of New Zealand businesses have 19 or fewer employees, and they therefore, by and large, do not have the internal competencies to develop and grow from scratch the markets they have, nor do they have the resources to employ full-time international marketing or market development managers. But these companies are the backbone of the New Zealand economy, and if we are to develop a vision of our country achieving sustainable economic growth through export competencies and expertise, then these companies need help to get a foot in the door in developing the skills required to compete successfully on the global stage, especially in countries like the ASEAN ones. I am talking about Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Viet Nam, where the language is different, the legal system is different, the business culture is different, and channels to market are different. Members get the picture: doing business in Saigon is not the same as doing business in Levin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs my colleague the Hon Peter Hodgson has already alluded to, New Zealand Trade and Enterprise is this country\u2019s international marketing and market development agency, and I hope like hell that Minister Groser has spoken to Mr Brownlee and Mr English\u2014we will not worry about Mr Key, because apparently no one speaks to him\u2014and asked these Ministers to please not cut\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223985990d1f3c4f4c8da29aa14ee64e41\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, is that supposed to be funny?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133cb6a10dc54a05b4547efaf3ba6b6a\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, someone is awake! I hope Minister Groser has asked these Ministers to please not cut staffing levels and resources from New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, as they have from the Inland Revenue Department, the Ministry of Justice, the Tertiary Education Commission, etc., etc., because in order to really take advantage of the opportunities presented to the New Zealand economy and New Zealand companies, he needs on the ground more staff with experience who can help businesses optimise opportunities in this time of recession, so that when things really take off we will be flying. I ask whether Mr Groser has done that. I ask Mr Brownlee whether he can promise that there will be no staffing cuts to New Zealand Trade and Enterprise. I ask Mr English to tell us that he will not take money from our international development agency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EOverall, this is a great bill, but I just reiterate that we should hope that New Zealanders are in the right space to really take advantage of its opportunities. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022cacc73c3ba124b2297ad1fcc1499b088\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cacc73c3ba124b2297ad1fcc1499b088\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking on the first reading of the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill, I say that it is almost surprising that such a small bill of only nine or so pages, with seven or so of detail, can actually be so beneficial, so empowering, and so helpful in building a platform for future New Zealand growth, and in joining up parts of the fastest-growing region in the world at the moment. It is very helpful and satisfying that most of the House is in favour of this bill. In fact, the previous speaker said, I think, that it was a very, very good bill, or something along those lines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the assistance that the House is giving this bill as it goes through the process. I also acknowledge that with its effective date of 1 July, the House and the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee have to move very fast in their examination of this bill and the hearing of submissions. If the bill goes through its first reading\u2014and I presume it will\u2014I wish that select committee very well. I am sure the committee is aware how important the bill is to New Zealand, and that the bill will have the endorsement of most of the House when we vote, following the speeches of one of two more speakers, to refer this bill to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI also join most of the other speakers in congratulating, first of all, Mr Tim Groser, on getting this bill to this House, and acknowledging the hard work he does as Minister of Trade, as have all previous Ministers of Trade. It was very satisfying to hear an earlier speaker, the Hon Mr Hodgson, talk about peace breaking out. Actually, peace always breaks out\u2014mostly\u2014across the House around bills such as this one, which are for the benefit of \u201CNew Zealand Incorporated\u201D. Most of us, to a greater or lesser degree, are in favour of free, open trade. We have heard earlier speakers speaking about fair trade to the tune of the idea that this week is \u201CGo Bananas\u201D week, or something. Someone may allege that some members have gone bananas already, but that is probably for a debate on Wednesday afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith, the Rt Hon Sir Bill Birch, the Hon Jim Sutton, and, of course, the now Leader of the Opposition, the Hon Phil Goff. It is a credit to all those gentlemen, and all those who have worked with them, that they have constantly put New Zealand up on the page to punch above its weight on free trade around the world. Mr Nash has probably sent the speech he gave earlier up to Mr Goff already, as he makes his bid for the Auckland Central nomination, as I understand he is doing. His speech was very praising of Mr Goff, but, to be fair, Mr Goff did a pretty good job over the last few years when he was the Minister of Trade. I also acknowledge today that Minister Groser announced today a strengthening of agreements, ties, and discussions with Italy, as part of his ongoing work in free trade. The Leader of the Opposition talked about the need to strengthen trade around the world with his comments about the importance of the Doha round, and his knowledge of these matters is, of course, very impressive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThere was one thing that Mr Goff mentioned that, although I had not heard it before, I agree with, at least, intuitively. He said a 10 percent increase in trade between nations can result in a 4 percent increase in incomes. I was not sure whether he meant gross or net incomes, but that point does not matter too much. I would be interested to know where those numbers came from. I do not dispute them in any way. Is there any empirical evidence or hard and fast numbers to help encourage this House, and, hopefully, the rest of the globe\u2014especially some of those countries that are dragging the chain\u2014into opening up their borders somewhat?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI will give members a couple of quick quotes relating to the economic growth of less developed countries, compared with those with lower and higher trade restrictions. Admittedly, some of these numbers are a bit out of date. They cover 1980 to 1999. In that period, Singapore, for example, which has very low trade restrictions, had an annual growth per capita between 1980 and 1990 of 4.2 percent. That is interesting because Singapore, of course, is part of the ASEAN group. Of other nations, Hong Kong had 5.7 percent annualised growth per capita. Malaysia, which is also part of this agreement, had 2.6 percent annualised growth per capita. Other countries include Ireland, with 2.9 percent, Taiwan with 6.5 percent, and Thailand, which is also part of the ASEAN agreement that is before us, with annualised growth of 5.8 percent. Would it not be nice to have that growth in this country? South Korea had 8.6 percent, and Indonesia, which, again, is part of this agreement, had 3.7 percent. It is worth contrasting those figures\u2014because it backs up the Hon Phil Goff\u2019s earlier point\u2014with those of countries that had high trade restrictions over exactly the same period. For example, Iran had negative 1.2 percent growth over that same period. Brazil had 0.5 percent growth, India had 3.2 percent\u2014although India has come a long way in the last 20 years, of course\u2014and other countries such as Rwanda had negative 2.3 percent growth. The point is that the numbers speak for themselves on the GDP growth and the well-being of those countries. There is the evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThat is one of the reasons why New Zealand is so keen to pursue a free-trade agenda\u2014to help our country enjoy the fruits of living on this globe in 2009. It is a globalised globe, if you like, but globalisation is before us. We can confront it, or we can take it on board. I acknowledge that the previous Government did take it on board, and I acknowledge the importance of the free-trade agreement with China, as well as the ongoing work that Mr Groser is doing. New Zealand is an exporting nation, and our interests continue to be in relentlessly and constantly opening up trade, reducing tariffs, and also, very importantly, building trust with those nations in our regional vicinity. As we all know, among the 10 countries represented in this bill, plus Australia and New Zealand, there have been some historical disputes. But there is nothing like ongoing and growing trade between nations for, not totally avoiding conflict, but really helping to build trust, relationships, and understanding between them. Some of those nations have some quite fundamental differences, be they religious or in the way their Governments operate. I did not hear that point being picked up by one or two earlier speakers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EWe have to be constantly vigilant. There are suggestions of protectionism coming back and barriers going up. Unfortunately, currently New Zealand and the world are in a recession. For many, that is an excuse to put domestic trade barriers up. Climate change is an interesting part of this issue, because many who are very involved in the climate change debate are suggesting that trade barriers are put upon countries that are not part of some international agreement on climate change. Interestingly\u2014and that will be a tension\u2014Mr Groser will have some challenges on that issue. When we look at the nations that are involved in ASEAN, I do not think we see that any of them have ratified the Kyoto Protocol, and that could be an interesting tension as we go through this process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI would just like to read members a quote, because it shows what protective tariffs are: \u201CFree trade consists simply in letting people buy and sell as they want to buy and sell. \u2026 Protective tariffs are as much applications of force as are blockading squadrons, and their object is the same\u2014to prevent trade. The difference between the two is that blockading squadrons are a means whereby nations seek to prevent their enemies from trading; protective tariffs are a means whereby nations attempt to prevent their own people from trading.\u201D Surprisingly enough, that is from a Mr Henry George in 1886. How relevant that still is now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EAs I noted earlier, there are many challenges in front of us\u2014knee-jerk reactions to short-term supposed solutions to the recession we are in, or to climate change, or even to short-term pork-barrel domestic politics. It is a credit to this Parliament and to the parties involved that we are almost united in pursuing this agenda, as I noted at the start of my speech. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00229d2313dd8317410c8c3d18e18e74d949\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d2313dd8317410c8c3d18e18e74d949\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I want to join in the outbreak of peace, as my colleague described it earlier, around the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill. I think it is a good bill, and it is great to see it come to the House as a culmination of a lot of hard work from a lot of people. We have already heard some of the earlier speakers talk about the officials who worked on this bill. In particular, we heard about Martin Harvey and Vangelis Vitalis from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, who led teams of people who worked extraordinarily hard for extraordinarily long hours over a long period of time to bring this agreement to fruition. I note that those kinds of officials are the very backroom officials whom this Government seems so determined to cut back and cut out. These backroom officials have not just been capped; they are the very people who have actually had their jobs cut. From day to day in this House we see the important work that is done by public servants right across New Zealand. Those public servants are not being given the respect that the National Government claimed it would give them when it came into office. Free-trade agreements such as this one rely on the hard work of public servants who are seen as backroom. They are not seen as front-line public servants, and they are being put into a different category by this Government. That is very disappointing, because what we see today is the fruit of their labours, and how important their work is for the economic and social well-being of all New Zealanders. That is work done by so-called backroom public servants. They should be valued for that work, not put down, and not have their jobs cuts, as this Government would do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI also want to thank the Ministers who have been involved in these negotiations over a long period, starting right back with the Singapore agreement with Lockwood Smith, and also with the Hon Phil Goff, Jim Sutton, and also Tim Groser, who brought this bill to the House. All those Ministers are people who have shown a lot of commitment to the free-trade agenda. I wonder whether Mr Groser, and Mr Foss, who has recently resumed his seat and said very complimentary things about the Hon Phil Goff, might wish to share those complimentary things with John Key. It was only last month in this House that John Key said: \u201C\u2026 Mr Groser is a very hard-working Minister of Trade, unlike the previous Minister of Trade.\u201D That statement is really unbecoming of Mr Key and, given what we have heard today from other Ministers and members across the House, it seems very out of context, because Mr Goff\u2019s role in this legislation\u2014and indeed this trade agreement\u2014was significant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI can quote from Don Nicolson of Federated Farmers, who said: \u201CFederated Farmers applauds the Hon Phil Goff for his earlier work and the National Government for bringing this FTA home.\u201D We also heard from Stephen Jacobi, from the New Zealand International Business Forum, who said: \u201CTrade Minister Phil Goff and his officials have done a superb job to conclude a particularly complex negotiation.\u201D Charles Finney, of the Wellington Regional Chamber of Commerce, said: \u201CI would like to congratulate Phil Goff and his officials for their hard work and successful outcome.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo it seems that we have widespread agreement that Phil Goff worked hard on this bill as Minister of Trade. We heard it from Craig Foss today, and we have heard it from Tim Groser, but unfortunately Mr Key did not seem to want to share in that last month in this House. I hope his colleagues will return to talk to him and to say that Mr Goff was, in fact, a very hard-working Minister of Trade. That should be acknowledged by Mr Key\u2014as it has been by his colleagues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI would also like to say that this bill represents excellent negotiation between the Governments of the ASEAN region and New Zealand, although I think we all acknowledge that multilateral trade negotiations are the priority for New Zealand and the rest of the world because it is only through multilateral trade negotiations that we will achieve the objectives of removing agricultural subsidies and create a fair rules-based system for trade, so the Doha round must be, and has been, our priority for a long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe also do a lot, in the absence of a full multilateral agreement, around bilateral agreements, and they are important as well. We have discussed in this House the enormous economic benefit that will come from the China free-trade agreement, for instance, and the earlier free-trade agreements that New Zealand has negotiated. But these regional agreements fill a very important gap in that trade agenda in the absence of a finalised multilateral agreement; and with the bilateral agreements we have, we need these regional agreements because they start building an infrastructure around trade that all of us can benefit from, and should, in the end, help to fulfil the multilateral agreements. The Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement, involving Chile, Brunei, Singapore, and New Zealand, is the classic example of that. That is a regional agreement that is seen around the world as a model of the kind of agreement that should be negotiated\u2014that actually brings together strong, rules-based agreements with networks of countries. We hope, obviously, to see the United States added into that agreement over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo this agreement, which brings together the ASEAN nations with Australia and New Zealand, is just that kind of regional agreement, and all those involved in negotiating it deserve to be supported. As Mr Goff said earlier in the debate today, the immediate benefit for New Zealand exporters will be that the $50 million in tariffs that New Zealand exporters face in the ASEAN free-trade region will be gone. So there we go\u2014immediately, there is a $50 million benefit for New Zealand exporters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut also these kinds of regional agreements are the basis on which to build further and deeper trade links, and it is incredibly important that New Zealand exporters now grasp the opportunity put forward by this agreement to be there in the fastest-growing regional market in the world. It is incredibly important that we recognise that it is not just about the tariffs that will disappear overnight\u2014$50 million\u2014but it is also about the base to expand our new export market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe free-trade agreement will eliminate the tariffs on all key items of trade interest to New Zealand in the markets, so that is where the $50 million comes from. We also have to acknowledge that the bill also involves and facilitates free trade in services in the region. The services market is an important and growing market for New Zealanders overseas; we are well regarded for the kinds of things we can provide in terms of areas like engineering and environmental science\u2014areas where New Zealand has service expertise that is liked all over the world, respected all over the world, and will now be able to be used throughout the region as part of this agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe bill in its technical sense amends the Tariff Act 1988 and the Customs and Excise Act 1996. In the Tariff Act it will enable the application of preferential tariff rates that will enable transitional safeguard measures to be applied in appropriate circumstances on imports originating from party countries. That is the bit that will lower the tariffs. Amendments to the bill relating to the Customs and Excise Act will create a system of certification bodies that are authorised to issue the necessary certificates of origin for goods to be exported to party countries. They are the technical matters that are actually dealt with in the legislation here but, as a number of speakers have said, the important thing is the money that will be earned by exporters and the jobs that will be created for New Zealanders by this agreement. It is anodyne legislation, but it is incredibly important in terms of New Zealand\u2019s economy and the jobs for New Zealand people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to talk about two things that other speakers have not dwelt on greatly today. One of those is the side agreements that go along with this particular free-trade agreement. In this case it is the trade and labour agreements and the trade and environment agreements with the Philippines. It is good to see National supporting and encouraging these; it has not always been so. These side agreements began to come into play around the time of the Singapore agreement and they are useful additions because they start to address some of the concerns that Dr Kennedy Graham raised earlier in the debate about how we move the focus beyond some kind of strict economic development role. These agreements help to fill out the relationship that New Zealand has with the countries concerned, and I know, having done some analysis in another job around New Zealand\u2019s side agreements with Chile, that they certainly deepened an understanding about environmental cooperation. They have enabled New Zealand and Chile to share a great deal in terms of ideas about how to protect and enhance our environment, how we can use tourism and ecotourism in ways that support the environment and support out economy and our jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo these side agreements are extremely important and they add to the ones we already have with Brunei, Singapore, Thailand, and China. I personally would like to see those agreements continue to evolve and expand. They go alongside the trade agreement at the moment but they are negotiated just as hard, and I am sure all the officials I mentioned before would acknowledge that a lot of work goes into developing these arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI must now call on National to go through and fulfil those agreements\u2014to fulfil their meaning so they are not just left off to the side but form an important part of our relationship with ASEAN countries, by improving labour standards in those countries, and by improving environmental standards in those countries. But New Zealand can also learn as well, and the experience of Chile tells us that we have learnt a lot from our environmental cooperation with Chile. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe last matter I want to mention is around process, and my colleague Pete Hodgson has already addressed a lot of these issues. The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee in considering this treaty before it came to the House discussed the fact that the process around how New Zealanders engaged with free-trade agreements is something we could look at more. These kinds of agreements are not really fully understood out there in the community, their implications are not always fully understood, and the benefits are not always fully understood. I think we need a process that opens up these agreements so people can understand them more, there can be input from a wide range of sources, and all New Zealanders can ensure that they understand the benefits that this kind of legislation and this treaty bring us. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00221d67c60c77a14e80aa372ea896506ecf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d67c60c77a14e80aa372ea896506ecf\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E As has been alluded to by previous speakers in this debate, the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill represents a very significant development in our country\u2019s international trade arrangements. I commend the Minister and his officials in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade for the considerable and important work that they have undertaken in their negotiations and in the preparation of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn the current economic climate it is especially important for a small country that depends very heavily on export earnings to do all it can to facilitate trade by reducing and eliminating barriers, and by reducing costs for our producers and businesses as they seek to operate in significant markets, such as those that constitute the ASEAN group of countries. ASEAN represents a market of more than 586 million people and accounts for more than US$1.4 billion in global trade. In recent times New Zealand has secured a significant increase\u2014some 121 percent since 2000\u2014in its exports to ASEAN countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThis is a welcome development, as a result of which the ASEAN group of countries now constitutes our third-largest trading partner and the third-largest export market for merchandise goods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAn important outcome of the agreement is that by 2020 there will be no tariffs on 99 percent of New Zealand\u2019s current exports to the vital markets of Indonesia, Malaysia, Viet Nam, and the Philippines\u2014four major economies in Asia. During the same period ASEAN exports to New Zealand will also increase, through the gradual elimination of tariffs. However, the agreement provides protection for some important industries, especially in the manufacturing sector, by scheduling longer phase-out periods for tariffs that are associated with sectors that may be sensitive to the potentially negative effects of adjustments in industries such as manufactured products, clothing, footwear, carpets, and certain textiles. I am sure that members will join me in welcoming that flexibility and long-term thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt was encouraging to hear the Leader of the Opposition, at the beginning of this debate, lending his support to this agreement. I acknowledge both his personal contribution as the previous Minister of Trade and the bipartisan approach that has been taken to New Zealand\u2019s trade negotiations in recent times. It is difficult and demanding work, and having that consensus on the home front and in this Parliament is hugely important to those who work so hard on our behalf to secure the best deal that is achievable. Trade creates jobs, builds vital market access for our products, and secures the export earnings that all New Zealanders depend upon for economic growth and our nation\u2019s collective wealth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs my colleague the member for Wairarapa noted, Asia\u2019s share of global trade has increased markedly in recent years, and it is essential for New Zealand to ensure that we are well positioned to take advantage of that development. So it is particularly exciting and impressive to observe that this agreement marks the first time that ASEAN has negotiated a comprehensive free-trade agreement as part of a single undertaking\u2014that is, an agreement that spans goods, services, investment, and other aspects of modern free-trade agreements, such as intellectual property and competition policy. Thus it really does represent a new high-water mark in New Zealand\u2019s integration with the combined ASEAN market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI listened carefully to Dr Kennedy Graham\u2019s address, which commenced with tributes to the Hon Tim Groser and the Hon Phil Goff for their personal contributions to this agreement. It was good to hear him confirm that the Green Party is not opposed to free trade per se, and his recognition that trade is critical to the stimulation of economic growth. He posed four questions in relation to the agreement, which will, no doubt, be answered during the subsequent readings of this bill, and I trust those answers will be sufficient to secure the Green Party\u2019s support for this agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI acknowledge Dr Kennedy Graham\u2019s final point, which focused on the continuing house arrest of the Burmese leader Aung San Suu Kyi. There has been longstanding concern in this country about the suppression of human rights in what is now known as Myanmar, and it is a concern that is keenly felt on all sides of this House. However, in negotiating a comprehensive free-trade agreement with a range of countries, of which Myanmar is one of the smallest, it does not follow that we are turning a blind eye to that country\u2019s disturbing record on human rights or condoning the incarceration of a widely respected and rightful leader. To the contrary, it is to be hoped that increasing trading relations will secure increasing diplomatic influence, especially for Australia and New Zealand as we strive to encourage the Myanmar military Government to release Aung San Suu Kyi and demonstrate respect for democracy and the rule of law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut we cannot ignore the fact that we now have significant trade agreements with a number of countries whose policies and customs we cannot admire or share, and if we were to set such a high moral benchmark to all decisions about trading partners that it led us to reject trade with countries that have unsatisfactory Governments, we would absolutely kneecap our own productive sectors and economy. That would do little to bring about political change in those countries, but it would certainly bring about disastrous changes in ours. Nevertheless, I acknowledge Dr Graham\u2019s concern and strongly share his desire to see the long and abhorrent discrimination against the Nobel Peace Prize - winner brought to an end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt was a pity to hear Stuart Nash trying to score a cheap point with his rugby analogy about the respective contributions to this agreement of Phil Goff, Helen Clark, and Tim Groser. In the interests of fairness it would do Mr Nash well to remember that Mr Groser came to this House nearly 4 years ago, after a long and distinguished career as a trade negotiator for this country. There can be few New Zealanders who can stand more proudly on the world stage of trade agreements than the Hon Tim Groser. I have no doubt that Phil Goff and Helen Clark would certainly acknowledge his sterling work on our behalf while they were Ministers in the last Government, and I imagine that they would urge Mr Nash to reflect on the comments that he made in what has been, in the main, an otherwise constructive and intelligent debate over a measure of vital national significance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ELike Grant Robertson, I conclude my remarks with some observations about two of the key outcomes of this agreement\u2014that is, the memoranda of agreement on labour cooperation and environmental cooperation with the Philippines. The agreement on labour cooperation provides a basis for both countries to promote sound labour policies and practices through an approach based on cooperation, consultation, and dialogue that takes into account the unique circumstances, needs, and future aspirations of New Zealand and the Philippines\u2014and I agree with Mr Robertson that these are significant. This agreement, it needs to be noted, is a treaty and is legally binding, and it has been included in the context of the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area. Under it there are a number of key undertakings, of which I will mention just a few. New Zealand and the Philippines reaffirm their obligations as members of the ILO and their commitment to the principles of the ILO Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work. They agree to work to ensure that their labour laws, regulations, policies, and practices are in harmony with international labour commitments, and they support the commitments made by the parties to the memorandum of agreement with a view to improving the working conditions and the quality of work life in their respective countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EMeanwhile, the memorandum of agreement on environmental cooperation with the Philippines seeks to promote sound environment policies and processes by establishing a set of shared commitments, a framework for cooperation, and a mechanism for consultation, which, taken together, allow the parties to address any environmental issues through cooperation, consultation, and dialogue. Again, I hope that these are measures that will encourage the Green Party to throw its support behind what could become a unanimously supported agreement. Again, the memorandum of agreement on environmental cooperation with the Philippines is legally binding and has been concluded in the context of the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI conclude by simply mentioning those aspects, because they demonstrate the potential of free-trade agreements and international treaties to secure improvements and cooperation across a wide range of geopolitical matters. Again, I pay a warm tribute to all the negotiators, Ministers, and officials for the comprehensive nature of their concerns and achievements. They have done the job well. They have done our country proud. I am delighted to support the measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ca266a367ab0449bbde1e4e15e1c02ff\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 107\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u002274d315487d1245a3b91199da4cf5cbe7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274d315487d1245a3b91199da4cf5cbe7\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee consider the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area Bill, and that the committee report finally to the House on or before 25 May 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f431df917ac4df4b4af5a35e57ad2f6\u0022\u003EEducation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222401963317db4bb8949b1742e2999186\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00220303ec4fb36147a788fc8e0f076f5a04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220303ec4fb36147a788fc8e0f076f5a04\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be referred to the Education and Science Committee for consideration. I also intend to move that the committee report finally to the House on or before 28 August 2009, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during oral questions, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill proposes two broad areas of policy change. First, the bill introduces changes to current police vetting arrangements. Second, the bill introduces information matching between the New Zealand Teachers Council and the Ministry of Education. In addition to these two areas the bill will introduce a number of other measures to improve efficiency in the schooling system and to improve education law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe first area of broad policy change is police vetting. The bill will improve student safety, reduce compliance costs, and streamline administration for schools. It will do this by removing the New Zealand Teachers Council as the conduit for the police vetting of all non-teaching staff at schools and early childhood education services. Instead of schools and early childhood education services paying a $10 fee for each police vetting, they will be able to apply directly to the New Zealand Police, which currently provides the service free of charge. Needless police vetting will be minimised by requiring only those contractors who have or are likely to have unsupervised access to children to be police vetted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe changes proposed in this bill will minimise the risk that non-teaching staff and contractors may have unsupervised access to children before being police vetted. Currently, the law requires the police vetting of all non-permanent, non-teaching staff within 2 weeks of appointment, and also of contractors and their staff within 2 weeks of starting work if they work regularly in the early childhood education service or school. The proposed changes will require the police vet to be obtained before the person commences work and has unsupervised access to children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe second area of broad policy change is information matching. The bill will provide a better system for ensuring that only authorised teachers are employed by schools. At the moment there is no means of identifying individuals who are teaching in schools without a current practising certificate or with limited authority to teach, and who are thus illegally employed. The bill provides for information matching between the Ministry of Education\u2019s payroll database and the New Zealand Teachers Council\u2019s register of teachers in order to identify those who are teaching in schools without registration. This measure is well overdue, having been promised by the previous Government since October 2007. The information-matching programme will pick up whether teachers meet current teaching standards, thus ensuring that our students receive a quality education. In addition, police vetting will be required with any practising certificate renewal, which means that any individuals with historical convictions who should not be teaching will be identified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EA number of amendments in this bill will improve efficiency. School board of trustee elections must currently be held in term one of an election year. Term one is the busiest time of the school year. The bill will allow for the timing of board elections to be changed so that they can be held later in the school year. Currently, the Education Act 1989 envisages only an individual being appointed as a limited statutory manager or a commissioner for a school. This does not fully utilise the specialist skills and expertise of education sector organisations that could be appointed to these roles. An amendment in the bill will change this by allowing entities such as boards of trustees to be appointed as either a limited statutory manager or a commissioner. In the case of a board of trustees, this change will enable underperforming schools to work directly with a successful neighbouring school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Qualifications Authority cannot currently credit special schools to offer the National Certificate of Educational Achievement. An amendment in the bill will enable special schools to apply to the New Zealand Qualifications Authority for accreditation in their own right so that they can meet the needs of students who want to achieve a recognised qualification. Currently, a single individual establishment board is created for every new school established under the Education Act 1989. The ability to have a combined board, or alternative board constitution, is available only after the individual establishment board has been transitioned into a single board elected for the school. Amendments in this bill will allow establishment boards to establish more than one new school, and will give the Minister of Education greater discretion to approve alternative constitutions for school boards. Members will know that the Education Review Office has discretion over its frequency of review of State schools, but this discretion does not apply to private schools. This bill will provide that discretion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill will improve education law in three areas. First, it will streamline functions relating to the independent disciplinary bodies overseen by the New Zealand Teachers Council. Second, it will enhance the efficient administration of student loans and allowances. It will also expand existing offence provisions relating to student allowances and loans. Finally, it will introduce a small number of technical and minor remedial amendments to clarify certain definitions and correct drafting errors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThis bill makes a range of amendments that reduce bureaucracy and at the same time keep children\u2019s education and safety at the forefront of our education system. I commend the Education Amendment Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u00227c83cedc14104fc9879c0ffdb9ea3816\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c83cedc14104fc9879c0ffdb9ea3816\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E The Education Amendment Bill is essentially the bill that I introduced on 23 September 2008, with some notable exceptions. As the Minister of Education has just outlined, it introduces information sharing between the Ministry of Education\u2019s payroll database and information held by the Teachers Council. This matching up ensures that none of the teachers teaching in our schools are not registered or do not have a practising certificate or authorisation. It seemed astonishing to me when I became the Minister of Education that such a process could happen, and, indeed, this provision was an important part of the Education Amendment Bill (No 3), which we introduced last September. It is very important that schools do not employ teachers who are not qualified or certificated; it is very important from both a professional point of view and a pupil safety point of view. The legislation also ensures that, by matching this data, teachers who are in the correct registration category are able to receive their entitled allowances. That is a very positive aspect of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EIt also introduces, as did Labour\u2019s bill last year, flexibility around the timing of elections for boards of trustees. Curiously, as I listened to the Minister read out her speech I thought of the words I had used last year. I heard many familiar phrases there. I am not knocking them, because they are important. Term one is, indeed, the busiest time of any school year, and to hold elections for boards of trustees at that time is a great call on both the school and the parent community. That flexibility is very important. Also, in the establishment of new schools, for schools that are linked to each other\u2014for example, a primary school and a junior high school\u2014to be able to share a new establishment board is an effective way to ensure that there is a pool of parents and others in the community who are able to do those important jobs of school establishment. In rural areas it may well be difficult to find people willing to be members of boards of trustees\u2014people who have the time and commitment to do that public service. So for schools to be able to share boards of trustees is also very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E The legislation also tidies up some of the differences between State and State integrated schools and private schools. I see that one of the areas the Minister has changed\u2014and it is not a change that I agree with\u2014is the number of times private schools undergo a review by the Education Review Office. This provision brings private schools into the same review process for State and State integrated schools. It also allows students at special schools to participate in the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA), in the same way as last year the Labour-led Government brought in the provision that children in alternative education could access NCEA units for free, which is really important in order to get their participation in education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EBut there are some significant differences between this bill and the Education Amendment Bill (No 3) that Labour introduced last year, when I had the privilege of being Minister of Education. The omission of certain things and the changes around police vetting are the reasons why Labour cannot support the Education Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EI will touch just briefly on the police vetting issue. Superficially, it looks like a rational and sensible decision, but actually it puts children at risk. Certainly, not great numbers of children are put at risk, but the New Zealand Educational Institute said itself in a press release it put out earlier this year in support of this legislation\u2014surprisingly enough\u2014that there had been seven cases out of thousands where child abuse by an adult had taken place in an unsupervised situation with children. Frankly, I think that is seven cases too many. If I were the parent of any of those children, I would be appalled that it was considered that seven cases out of thousands were OK. It is not OK for children to be exposed to risk. We heard a lot of nonsense in this House last year about the cost of police vetting. Actually, it costs 10 bucks\u2014that is all. There is a bit of process time\u2014it has to be done in 20 working days\u2014but it actually costs $10. Frankly, if it is too much of a call on a school to pay $10 to vet an adult, even though vetting would have prevented those seven cases of abuse, then I think that is a very bad call. Quite frankly, to have any child at risk of abuse, even if it is only at the rate of seven out of thousands, is too many. We think there should be blanket vetting of adults who are in an unsupervised situation with children at a school or an early childhood centre. It is not a huge imposition. Schools are currently operating under that system, and they are still full of volunteers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208e14f76ace547148f654a54711f6610\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: It kills playcentres. It kills sports teams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b706bc0739c94daba14963685382ab1a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the Minister muttering away over there. Does she agree that seven cases out of a few thousand are OK? Do I hear a yes to that question? Do I hear a yes? Are seven cases of abuse out of several thousand OK to the Minister? Well, they are not OK to me. That is why I think that parents should have confidence that their children are safe with all adults who are in an unsupervised situation during school hours or during the time when an early childhood centre is open\u2014we are talking about school hours or hours of operation. It is not as if the abuse has not happened. I repeat again: seven cases out of thousands are seven too many. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EWhat else has been removed out of this legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209ea0deae552450a8c5f61d0c1f506df\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: They were found. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206ede93ed2dc46dab075cfb9c9a1d2be\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the Minister twittering away out there. She has a bit to say to me, but this is the woman who never fronts up. This is the woman about whom the New Zealand Principals Federation put out a press release about a month ago calling her the \u201Cno-show\u201D Minister. I say to the Minister she should go out to schools and to parents and explain why seven cases of abuse are OK because she does not want schools to pay $10 to have the police vet within 20 working days people who are in schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EThis bill also takes out the requirements of boards of trustees to do a number of really interesting things. A little list of things that were in Labour\u2019s legislation last year are removed by this National bill. The Labour legislation required boards of trustees to ensure \u201Cthe enrolment at the school of all persons who are entitled to be enrolled at the school and apply to be enrolled at it:\u201D. Other requirements of boards of trustees that the Minister is taking out are \u201Censuring that education is provided to every student who is enrolled in the school: promoting a school environment that supports the highest standards of achievement for all students: actively managing and monitoring the performance of the principal:\u201D\u2014is this not interesting; these requirements have all been taken out of this legislation\u2014\u201Censuring that the performance of the school\u2019s other staff is actively managed and monitored: actively managing and reporting on the school\u2019s performance against the aims and objectives set out in the school charter:\u201D. Is this not curious? This is from a Minister and a National Government that talk about national standards in schools. The list that I have just read out is all about ensuring that every school in New Zealand is a quality learning environment. The Labour legislation also stated that the board of trustees should ensure \u201Cthat the school, including its assets, finances, and property, is managed in a financially responsible manner:\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7a00fefa6f44190a366e1e1f16b52a1\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s gone; stop mourning it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ab66f47fc5a4ac7ad47c7a4f4077605\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, those requirements have gone. The requirements have gone, but they were actually about ensuring that there were national standards. The requirements were not the nonsense of literacy and numeracy progressions\u2014which were already in our schools. The Minister has not yet in her own mind determined what those progressions mean. The requirements were about ensuring that our schools were safe and well-run places, and that people who were there were accountable. The board of trustees was required to ensure that that happened. That has all been taken out by this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EThe other interesting thing that has been taken out was the Labour Government\u2019s proposal in our Education Amendment Bill (No 3) that the Secretary for Education no longer have the right to agree to 15-year-olds coming out of school. Again, much nonsense was said in this House last year when I brought in that legislation. It was criticised for not giving flexibility to education. Twenty-five percent of our students leave school with no qualifications, and a significant number of those are young people who have become disengaged from education. Where in the Education Amendment Bill is there anything about the whole area of transition? The Labour Government came up with Schools Plus. Schools Plus was about a revolution in secondary education. It was about providing alternative pathways to capture the learning interests of students; to stop these 15-year-olds from getting kicked out of school, ending up on the streets, ending up involved in crime, and ending up on a pathway to nowhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df718f453d7d47ba8d0a0315e3b8c9cd\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Your solution was to close the schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daff28d824d447cabdcb3036fb8bdfd6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I have just heard somebody from National asking what my solution was. Our solution was Schools Plus\u2014$39 million this year\u2014to ensure that every secondary school in New Zealand had apprenticeships; to ensure a whole variety of different pathways to synchronise between schools and industry, agriculture, and so on. That is about effective education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u002227dd5cf610f04e348d4f065e757ccd51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227dd5cf610f04e348d4f065e757ccd51\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be able to speak on the Education Amendment Bill. I just pass the observation that for the first 5 minutes of the former Labour Minister of Education\u2019s speech I thought it was positive, supportive, and actually what I would have expected. So it was disappointing to hear that he chose to finish his speech not on a positive note but by failing to acknowledge that when he did not get his legislation through the House last year, the electorate had the opportunity to pass judgment. One of the things the electorate wants is greater flexibility in legislation around the schooling system. That is what this amendment bill provides. It also tidies up a couple of areas that need correcting or cleaning up in existing legislation. Nobody could be concerned about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EAs chairperson of the Education and Science Committee I am looking forward to the cooperation of Labour in doing what is best for the children of New Zealand. I mentioned the introduction of greater flexibility. I will refer for a moment to the police vetting provisions. It is my view that large numbers of schools\u2014and particularly principals\u2014will welcome these changes. The intention is to do something that this Government is very, very strong on, which is to reduce compliance costs\u2014in this case, to reduce compliance costs associated with police vetting\u2014and to minimise needless vetting. I think back to the time when I was leading schools. One of the great frustrations was having to pay money to, in effect, a third party, which was the Teacher Registration Board, in order to get a vet that the police would do for me for nothing. It is entirely sensible to remove the middle person, the middle organisation, out of that process, and to let boards of trustees and principals deal directly with the police. It was my experience that far too often the registration board did not get these vets in a manner that was sufficiently timely and reliable for schools. There are a number of schools around this country that took a bit of stick from the Education Review Office over the failure of teachers to be registered or to have their registration renewed, when in actual fact it was a timing issue. The bottleneck was within the teacher registration system. So I, as a former school principal, certainly welcome the greater flexibility that the Education Amendment Bill will bring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EIt is important to acknowledge that all non-teaching staff employed in schools and in early childhood centres will continue to be police-vetted. But it is not necessary, in my view, that contractors coming on site on a casual basis, who will have no contact with children at all, go through the bureaucratic business of a vet. I can tell this House\u2014and the members opposite might like to listen\u2014that large numbers of contractors have worked, and, I am sure, continue to work in schools without having been vetted. That is just how it is. So this amendment is a logical, sensible extension of flexibility in the way that schools do their business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI want to make some comments about the changes that are being proposed around the way that boards of trustees operate. They are very simple changes, not hugely significant, and no extra child will learn as a result of them, but they make the system a little bit more logical and a little bit more flexible, and they provide greater clarity. For example, there is no point at all in a board of trustees of a school whose closure is imminent holding a triennial election. There is no sense to that. In actual fact, if one thinks about it, one realises it is a nonsense. So the greater flexibility that is being built in by this amendment must be welcomed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003ECircumstances in some parts of the country would necessitate the need for a combined school board. If one thinks about, for example\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f58748bf9a214356af05c0097981eb93\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s been going to the \u201CPaul Quinn School of Elocution\u201D!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022513aad2a70a546a3ac48c3fb160ee749\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: I hear Mr Mallard squawking over there. I believe he was Minister when a number of new schools were initiated in the Botany area of Auckland. How logical and sensible it would have been to develop a coherent community approach to the nature of schooling in that community through something like a single establishment board. Of course, that did not happen. That did not happen because that former Minister had his own agenda, and it was going to be driven through regardless of the interests of the children in that community. This proposed amendment actually hands a bit of power back to the people who know best, and that is the parents of the children who will be going to those schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EOne of the great difficulties behind schooling in New Zealand, and one which I do not believe we handle well, is what we do with a school that is failing. If one looks at the statistics one will see that 29 schools currently have commissioners. That means that their boards of trustees have been deemed as not capable of running the school to the standard required\u201429 of them. Another 42 have limited statutory managers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b32c82190664a1ba84a45b5cafe58ed\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d1c7fec8e194748ae31e23df43db6a6\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Forty-two of them. That means that there are aspects of those schools\u2019 operations that are not being handled competently by the board or the principal. It might be the financial management or it might be the personnel management. It is a significant number of schools, and the range of options, and the amount of extra options that are available to assist those schools is seriously limited. The opportunity to have, for example, a greater range of intervention alternatives must be welcomed. I would have expected the Labour members opposite to welcome that opportunity, because right at the fundamental base of this bill is what is best for children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI want to make it very clear that under this Government the days when schools are protected because their principal has mates in the Labour Party, or they are tied to unions\u2014so the failure of their schools is not addressed\u2014are shortly to be over. And all the parents and their children who are stranded in schools that are failing say thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u002287878ed1f2304bca800b7d22fae70385\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287878ed1f2304bca800b7d22fae70385\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the first reading of the Education Amendment Bill, which Labour will oppose. I put my comments into context by saying that many parts of the bill are worth supporting. Labour can support some parts of the bill, because much of it was drafted by the previous Labour Government and those bits are certainly worth supporting. They are sensible. They are about putting our children first, and they do live up to the rhetoric that the member who has just resumed his seat tried to portray as being the National Government\u2019s wish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWhat is very interesting is the parts of the bill that this Government has changed, because I think that tells us a great deal about the Government\u2019s agenda. The parts the Government has amended, which were originally drafted by the previous Labour Government, reduce safety for children in our schools. Allan Peachey tried to convince us, by using slogans, that this bill is apparently all about safety for children. But if this bill was genuinely about putting the safety of our children first, then the Minister would be insisting on police vetting processes. Yes, I say to Minister Tolley, she would be insisting on police vetting processes. She would not be lowering the standards and saying it is an issue of compliance costs. This Government is reducing the safety of our children to a slogan about compliance costs, and that is wrong. I say that both as a member of Parliament and as a mother of primary school - age children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe safety of my children and this nation\u2019s children is not a compliance cost; it is what safeguards our future, and it should be foremost in our minds as we debate this bill. I hope it never happens, but if there is a tragedy\u2014if somebody does have unsupervised access to our schoolchildren and a police vetting could have prevented that person from having unsupervised contact\u2014and something goes wrong, I hope that that Minister will stand up and take account. I hope she will say that yes, she did say the safety of our children was not important enough to put first and that we did not need to have police vetting of all the people who have unsupervised contact with our children at school. That Minister will be responsible if such an event does come into play. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWe do know that out of 35,000 non-teacher police checks done between 2004 and 2006, apparently only seven people were found to have criminal records that caused concern. This is by way of an explanation from the Minister to say that it does not matter, and that we do not need this vetting because only seven people were found to have criminal convictions that were of concern. I am sorry, I say to the Minister, but I do not want any of those seven people to come near my children. I do not want them to be near other people\u2019s children. I think that the Minister should be sufficiently concerned to take regard of that and should put our children first for a change, rather than calling them compliance costs. Children are not compliance costs; they are vulnerable and deserve the very best standards of care in our schools and in our early childhood education settings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIt is not just the safety of our children that this bill puts at risk; it is also the idea of having standards in our schools. For all of this Government\u2019s spin about national standards and ensuring that schools perform, the very section it has taken out of this bill speaks louder than words\u2014and I will read out the words. This is what has been removed from the responsibilities of a school board under this bill before Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d708862667874d15a05b1a738c2f259f\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: It was never in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9a2cdcd658044cbaf400c2484c19486\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was, I tell the Minister. In the original draft, these provisions were there, and they have been taken out. A school board was to be responsible for ensuring the enrolment at the school of all persons who are entitled to be enrolled at the school. That should be a given in a New Zealand context. Also removed is a school board\u2019s responsibility to ensure that education is provided to each student enrolled at the school, as is the responsibility of a school board to promote a school environment that supports the highest standards of achievement for all students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWhy has that been done? I would like someone from the National Government to get up on his or her feet and explain why it does not require school boards to promote school environments that support the highest standards of achievement for all students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022711f2345aaa243418a4f117831b1aa1f\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: The NAGs do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f87f7742438d46d78dcd1e08280cbe5c\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Is it because they already do that\u2014is that right? So we do not need to say it in legislation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d2e429b617f4b3f8c555d8e1c8975aa\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: They do that in Tauranga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234eab907707d49489428b18fbdc82afd\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Simon Bridges says the boards do it in Tauranga only, so that is OK. I am sorry, I say to Mr Bridges, but from Labour\u2019s perspective that is not OK. It should be a requirement of all school boards to provide a school environment that supports the highest standards of achievement for all students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EAlso removed from this draft of the bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ba7cba324f243dca43a5de1e01a04a5\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Has the member read the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022343f9e353d084260969b8a8102894a49\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Has the member read what has been removed from the bill? It is very telling indeed. This has also been removed. Apparently, under the National Government a school board\u2019s responsibilities will no longer require it to actively manage and monitor the performance of the principal, ensure that the performance of the school\u2019s other staff is actively managed and monitored, or actively manage and report on the school\u2019s performance against the aims and objectives set out in the school charter. [Interruption] The Minister is chattering away like a 6-year-old who cannot concentrate for long periods of time. If the Minister would stop chattering away like a naughty schoolchild, perhaps she might learn something. Those very important parts of this bill should go back in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWhat does the Minister have against ensuring that education is provided to each student enrolled at school? What does the Minister have against promoting a school environment that supports the highest standards of achievements for all students? I really would like to hear the answers to those questions. It is about putting our children first, but that is not what this bill delivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d47bede69574c7fbca9214656936815\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220849d3bcab564b1ab9a4f3fba118b557\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister may laugh. She may think that putting our children in the way of harm is something to be trifled with\u2014something to be laughed at. But it clearly is not. The Minister needs to take a good look at that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to be on the Education and Science Committee, because I can assure the Minister and her team that the Labour Party representatives on that select committee will be pushing very hard to ensure that our children are put first and are not reduced to something called a compliance cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey tried to convince us in his speech just a few minutes ago that some cost was involved in having police vetting done. He was unable to quantify that cost. I would certainly like someone from the National Government to get to his or her feet and quantify the cost we are trying to get away from. I ask to be told which cost is so big, bad, and ugly for our schools and our early childhood education providers that it would have this Government put our children into a potentially risky situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a35890c2b0e4c3497abd6850c4190fe\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228bdfdd7ce6940e2bdf12df8e7522743\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister says: \u201COh, rubbish!\u201D, but we know that at least seven people were found to have criminal records that caused concern. Those seven people were found through police checks on non-teachers in our schools and our early childhood education centres. We must remember that when we are talking about early childhood education centres, we are talking about probably some of the most vulnerable people in our society. Sometimes they are so young they cannot talk for themselves and tell us what has been happening to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIt is the job of the Government to ensure that children are safe. It is our job to have high standards in early childhood education, and not\u2014as this Government is wont to do\u2014to keep reducing those standards and keep requiring less and less from the sector. We should have the very highest standards in place. That requires the Government to take a lead role. It requires a strong Government that is prepared to stand up for the rights of our children, and not reduce them to the bumper sticker slogan of being compliance costs. I say to the Minister that they are not compliance costs; they are our children. They require the very highest of standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad8d2a2f38ca41c197d2d7531d35cff2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad8d2a2f38ca41c197d2d7531d35cff2\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. This bill is entitled the Education Amendment Bill, but from my analysis it could also be called the \u201CEducation Inc. Masquerade Bill\u201D. Some highly significant clauses are just not mentioned in the regulatory impact statement and they need to be deconstructed. The community has a right to know what this bill intends, over and above the two innocuous areas of apparent focus. The Green Party does not have a problem with the dates of the elections for boards of trustees being changed, and we see that the general policy statement claims to have two broad areas of focus: information matching between the Teachers Council and the ministry, and the reduction of compliance costs relating to police vetting. If those two issues were actually the key focus of this bill, then the Green Party would most probably be supporting its referral to a select committee at least. However, the general policy statement refers to some so-called minor changes that we think are substantive, and unhelpful to the advancement of public schools, equitable public education, and the community as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThose \u201Cminor\u201D changes, of a supposedly technical nature, are actually a scene-setting for further privatisation of the education system under the guise of greater efficiency. \u201CEfficiency\u201D is one of those words we just have to question. Efficiency in education is a philosophical issue that could take up more than 10 minutes and, given that it is undefined in this bill, I will try to figure out what the Government means by it. The Green Party thinks that this bill is a wolf dressed in sheepskin. This efficiency wolf is a manifestation of the underlying ideological purpose of the Government\u2019s policies on education. It is one of a suite of bills expressing a neo-liberal position and, as such, it is setting the stage for the further privatisation of the public education system. I say \u201Cfurther privatisation\u201D, because only this week the media reported a cost of around $1,500 per family for children attending public schools in terms of their donations and activities. That sounds like a pretty efficient way of externalising the costs of education on to families and of making sure that the poor families remain poor and less educated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EIt may not seem to be about privatisation, but when we look at the clauses and at those so-called minor changes, we need to address some issues. I do not have a problem, as I said, with the general purposes of focusing on the matching of teachers and the reduction of compliance costs, but we have to look deeper. When one lives in a town like Gisborne, where the Minister of Education lives and which I have just left, one sees that we have a public education system with a huge inequity already. We already have schools where half the kids go to Mexico\u2014although now they might be sorry that they did\u2014and the other half cannot afford to go to McDonald\u2019s. It is the sort of place where there is a huge gap in terms of what the public system is delivering, and we do not need any further privatisation in those sorts of communities. How does that relate to this bill, and what is this bill specifically trying to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1064c7438a84a63803f1603d2683a18\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY\u003C/span\u003E: What is this bill specifically trying to do? Having passed over the relatively innocuous clauses on matching and vetting, we come to the issues associated with boards of trustees. The bill proposes that boards can be combined to manage multiple schools under one jurisdiction. This sounds pretty sensible and efficient in some local contexts, but if we read the next clause we get a sense of where this is leading. According to the bill, the Secretary for Education can combine schools under a single board and appoint a corporation sole, or body corporate, to manage that cluster. The sole and body appear to be getting corporate control of several schools, and there are no requirements that they have any educational background or experience. Does this mean that schools can be managed by bodies corporate from Singapore, Australia, China, or anywhere else where we have free-trade or GATT agreements? Maybe that will not happen next week, and maybe it will not happen for a long time, but this bill certainly helps to facilitate that kind of possibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EIf one happens to believe that education is just another business, then, of course, a body corporate is the perfect structure for the management of schools. But as education is not a business but a common good, the business model is highly unsuitable and will lead to further privatisation of the common good. The Green Party supports comments made by Chris Carter and Sue Moroney about the changes to the original Labour bill. I was disappointed to hear that the very useful clauses about the responsibilities of boards of trustees had been omitted. There are very important issues about the rights of all students who are entitled to be enrolled at their local schools. As disability spokesperson for the Greens, I have been told disturbing stories about schools that are in receipt of special-needs grants, but which encourage families with children living with some impairments to attend another school as that school is better set up to address their needs. We need boards of trustees to be highly educated in their responsibilities to these, the most vulnerable of students in their communities, and fully committed to ensuring that schools uphold their rights to appropriate education at their chosen school\u2014in practice, not just in theory. So I am sorry to hear that those useful clauses are absent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI was a member of a board of trustees of a small rural school, and we needed all the help and guidance we could get, as just being parents of our own children does not make us highly aware of the broader needs of the diversity of children even in one small school. Schools that are failing to provide a safe environment and a quality education do need help. They do not need corporate help and consultants; they need some real engagement from educationists who understand what can be done to foster positive change. Charmaine Pountney, who wrote Learning for Life and achieved a remarkable turn-round at Auckland Girls\u2019 Grammar School, was one such educator, and she has some great ideas for circulating teachers around who need to be refreshed or, sometimes, retired, and for addressing issues of failure in schools. We need to listen to creative and experienced educators and help schools do better by being honest about the failures of boards and, sometimes, of teachers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EBut another concern we have about this bill is the clause on Education Review Office issues in relation to private schools. Any dilution of the Education Review Office\u2019s supervision is a concern, but especially in regard to private schools. It is important that the Education Review Office continues to visit private schools every 3 years, because public money is being spent on private institutions and we need to know what is going on. These schools set their own agenda, but they get our money so we want to know they are spending it appropriately. This bill reduces the certainty of the 3-year review, and that is not wise, in our view. Private schools are not the same as public schools. While working for Greenpeace I once gave the same speech to many schools in the Auckland region, in both public and private schools, and the difference in resources and the delivery of the curriculum was enormous. Some may be happy to see public funds going into private schools so they can teach their world view, but accountability is vital. Some of the issues associated with \u201Cdiscipline\u201D, as they love to call it in fundamentalist religious schools, definitely need the regular scrutiny of the Education Review Office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe idea of options for the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) assessment of special schools again sounds really desirable, and may well be, as long as it does not result in a compulsory imposition of assessment models that are inappropriate for children with specific educational needs who do not fit the NCEA assessment models but are still learning and can have a rich educational experience in a respectful environment without credits. I know that this is heresy, but qualifications are not the only reason we go to school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EPerhaps the most fascinating clause of this bill is the one that deals with retrospective validation. It is not clear what mess this was designed to fix up, but it is odd that National is introducing it, given the passionate and vehement attacks it made on Labour for the retrospective validation of illegal matters in regard to electoral finance in the last term. From what I can gather, some schools integrated with each other without Crown approval so they are now getting validation. The Green Party is not convinced by this kind of lawmaking. I refer members back to the early days of retrospective legislation, including my favourite example, the Validation of Invalid Land Sales Act 1894. The principle behind this and other such retrospective validation is that if one does something stupid or, as in the 1894 case, downright illegal, it can be validated with the stroke of a pen. I am all for reasonable restorative justice, but not for validating the invalid, otherwise we make laws that are a cross between George Orwell and Kafka, and no one is better off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI would also like to know which teachers, teacher unions, and schools have called for some of the underlying changes mentioned in the bill. Looking at the bill in isolation, I think it looks like a tidy-up of anomalies and a rationalising of resources, but the Green Party will not be supporting it, because of the undertones and context that I have referred to, and because it is part of a suite of changes that disturb us on a deep level. We mark the bill \u201Cnot achieved\u201D, and we will vote against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3ab0dcedce14efabe986dd4dd2ed1e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3ab0dcedce14efabe986dd4dd2ed1e8\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on the Education Amendment Bill. The members of the Education and Science Committee are certainly enthusiastic about this bill being sent to us, if that is what is intended, and come 10 o\u2019clock tomorrow morning we will get serious about working as a team and working through the legislation presented to us so that we can get it back to the House by 28 August, as the Minister has requested. We will ensure that it is a bill that will fit into the very context of the Education Act 1989 and support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EI make the point that in any relationship situation, things can get a bit stormy, as they did in the Chamber before dinner time, after the debate had ended on a bill that the House agreed on just about unanimously. It had to do with trade, and there is a lot of agreement around trade. But when it comes to education, it is quite clear that things become very, very political. The Opposition spokesperson on education attempted to ask where the transitioning part of this bill is. I tell the Labour spokesperson on education to take some time, because the National Government has a lot more to come under the umbrella of education as far transitioning is concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EBut what we are concerned about first and foremost is to make schools more workable, more efficient, and more forward-thinking, so that they focus on those children who do not achieve the level of literacy and numeracy that we know they need to have in order to be self-sufficient by the time they leave school. It is on that basis that this bill has come to the House. The bill deals with some matters that may be considered to be small in comparison with some other matters, but they are all very important. We have to remember that the Education Act 1989 is now 20 years old, and when we look through it we see that a large proportion of it has been repealed and replaced by various amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EI want to go back to another point that was raised that appears to me to be the most controversial issue, which is the police vetting. We are not debating whether people should have access to children without having been vetted by the police; we are debating whether those people who do not have unsupervised access to children should be vetted by the police. Effectively, the bill proposes that those who do not have unsupervised access to children do not need police vetting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThat proposal received unanimous support from the education trade. I am quoting from the New Zealand Education Review magazine, which said: \u201C\u2026 principals and unions are welcoming National\u2019s decision to allow parents and volunteers who have not passed police checks to have unsupervised access to children in schools and early childhood centres.\u201D Principals and the unions are supporting that. It is interesting to read what the president of the Principals Federation, Ernie Buutveld, had to say. He said that overturning police vetting for volunteers and parents was a \u201Cstep in the right direction\u201D, and schools would continue to follow policies to ensure student safety. That is an exact quote from Ernie. Further to that, the president of the New Zealand Educational Institute is reported as describing the move by Anne Tolley, the Minister of Education, as common sense. She said the vetting of parents would lead to a drop in parent volunteering. I think myself that this bill has come forward as a result of listening clearly to the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWe have heard of about seven cases of people who raised concerns with regard to criminal records over the last 2 years. There were 35,000 people vetted, and seven people were found to have criminal records. I draw the House\u2019s attention to the fact that when I first became a member of the Education and Science Committee, a member\u2019s bill came before us about ensuring that all people who stand for election to a board of trustees should be police vetted. We looked at that and wrestled with it. We sent the officials away to consider it, and they came back. There was something inside us that said we had to do that. But we could not; we could not achieve it. I also take the point, from my reading around this situation, that it has not been possible under the present regime to ensure 100 percent compliance with the requirement for police vetting. I call on members of the select committee to step past the theatre of the House on the first reading of the bill and to see whether we can put children and their achievements at the very centre. We should be focused on them and on their achievements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EOne thing that really excited me too was the thought of the flexible model around school governance, which is something that has stirred my interest from early times in politics. I recall that the late Hon Brian Donnelly did a superb paper that dealt with these aspects. He also dealt with the subject of one principal looking after a number of smaller schools, so that there was the strong collegial leadership that was needed. I always found that Brian Donnelly, as the chair of the Education and Science Committee, brought a maturity to that committee, and it has continued under Allan Peachey. We are under good direction and a good chair, and I believe that what this bill has to offer is very, very positive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EIt would be a shame to get bogged down in ideology, whereby we felt that we needed to be prescriptive as to the word and the sentence of what a board of trustees must do. My experience with boards of trustees is that professional development is always offered\u2014the ministry is close by\u2014and they have a passion that needs not to be fettered by regulations that will dumb them down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EA point that I would like to take up, just to conclude, concerns student allowances, which have not been touched on. It is not a biggie, but it is something that needs to be focused on. At present it is unlawful to make a false declaration, but this bill makes that an action that makes someone liable to a fine. I think that might be quite appropriate, because it does not send a very good signal if people are able to drive a bus through the regulations of a significant Act\u2014the Education Act 1989. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EOn that basis, I think everything looks very good. I know that the Government members of the select committee are very, very enthusiastic to get this bill before the committee in order to make sure we can deliver it back to the House on 28 August so that we can start proceeding down the pathway towards helping every child to realise his or her potential. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022be7244bb18d340ef8d59f05254c40423\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be7244bb18d340ef8d59f05254c40423\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to speak to the first reading of the Education Amendment Bill. ACT is supporting this bill for no other reason than that there are many amendments here\u2014it is a tidying-up bill, if you like. The amendments make absolute sense, and quite why some of them were not addressed well before now is anybody\u2019s guess. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe main amendments are, firstly, to introduce an information-matching programme to compare teacher information held on the Ministry of Education\u2019s payroll system with information from the Teachers Council\u2019s teacher register. The purpose of this programme is to identify teachers who are teaching without a current practising certificate, and it will also identify schools that are illegally employing these teachers. As I say, it is a very sensible and straightforward amendment that should have been dealt with before now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe second amendment, which has been referred to by most speakers, is the reduction in compliance costs related to police vetting by removing the Teachers Council as the conduit for police vetting of non-teaching staff and contract staff. As the previous speaker, Colin King, said, we are talking here about parents and volunteers. Quite why we would try to discourage parents from participating in their children\u2019s education as volunteers, I do not know. This amendment removes the requirement to obtain police vetting for contractors who have no unsupervised access to children. It does not change at all the supervised access provisions, but here we are talking about parents and volunteers who will not have direct access to children and certainly will not be alone with them. It does not remove the requirement for the police vetting of teaching staff or non-teaching staff who have unsupervised access to children, but it does remove the Teachers Council as the mechanism for obtaining police checks. This should make police checks quicker and cheaper for schools, and removing compliance costs in this instance is very much a good thing. It is interesting to hear from Colin King that this move is endorsed by both the Principals Federation and the New Zealand Educational Institute. They have called this move common sense, and I have to agree with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIn my particular area of delegation as Associate Minister of Education, I am pleased to see that some provisions in the bill will make things much better for those undertaking special education and also for independent schools. I come first to special education. Provisions within the bill will allow special schools to be accredited for NCEA (National Certificate of Educational Achievement), which is not currently the case. As I have gone around the country visiting special schools, satellite classrooms, and children with special education needs who are being mainstreamed, I have seen that this issue has been very much a bugbear, particularly in special schools. Several students at these schools are at the academic level where they are able to participate in NCEA, but this is not automatically available to children in special schools. This bill will rectify that anomaly. If there is one thing we should be aiming for for all children in New Zealand, it is the opportunity for them to reach their full potential, whether they are educated at a State school, an independent school, an integrated school, or, indeed, a special school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe bill also clarifies the terms \u201Cspecial class\u201D, \u201Cspecial clinic\u201D, \u201Cspecial school\u201D, and \u201Cspecial service\u201D. Some might look at this provision and ask why it is necessary, as we are just talking about words. But as we well know, in the public sector definitions become very important when it comes to funding and resourcing, so this, too, is a very welcome amendment to the Education Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EAlso in the special education realm, this bill amends the definition of \u201CState school\u201D to include \u201Cspecial school\u201D, which is currently not the case either. Special schools are usually funded and resourced by the Ministry of Education in exactly the same way that State schools are, and it is a matter of great importance to the children attending a special school\u2014and also to their parents and those working in the area\u2014that they be considered to be under the State school umbrella. It means that they are seen with a degree of normality that is perhaps sometimes denied them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWith regard to independent schools, this bill removes an anomaly in the Act so that private schools are able to be lawfully accredited to offer NCEA. Many will be unaware that this is actually not the case at the moment; this amendment corrects something that should have been corrected long ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe bill allows for combined establishment boards that can set up more than one new school, and it allows for more flexibility when independent schools are reviewed. We heard just before that such schools will now come under the same rules, in terms of Education Review Office examination, as every other school in the country, which is absolutely the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe bill outlines other amendments, which are of a relatively minor nature. Again, while we have the opportunity to tidy up things that should be other than as they are, that opportunity is being taken. I will give a few examples. The bill allows for more flexibility in relation to when triennial elections for school boards of trustees are held. At the moment the law stipulates that elections for school boards have to be held on the second Tuesday in May. Quite what is special about the second Tuesday in May is anybody\u2019s guess. I have had a think about it, but it escapes me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf48974aeae742f88193982efb53f374\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t you know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c33d1a72fa3b46f4a70ee957b9d181ef\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps Mr Hughes can enlighten us in his next speech, or maybe not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EAnyway, the bill allows a lot more flexibility in this regard, and the Minister will have some say in the date when elections will be held. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of fishhooks in the bill, in ACT\u2019s view, but we feel they will be able to be tidied up at the Education and Science Committee. One of those fishhooks is the clarification of the definition of a playgroup. The explanatory note of the bill states that \u201CThe Bill amends the definition of playgroup to make it clear that at least half the children attending a playgroup session must have a parent or their caregiver present, and that the same caregiver cannot be nominated by more than 1 set of parents belonging to a playgroup.\u201D The ACT Party does not agree with this provision. We think that it is overly inflexible and a little bit bureaucratic, and at the right point in the select committee process we will be suggesting some amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe bill also allows for teachers\u2019 practising certificates to be suspended where there has been an allegation of serious misconduct. I contend that not one single member in this House would argue with that provision, and quite why it was not there before is unclear. The bill allows for the suspension of a teacher\u2019s practising certificate to be extended until an investigation into misconduct is resolved. That, too, makes good sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EAs was also mentioned by the previous speaker, a couple of tertiary education amendments will be made, and, again, they are just good common sense. Under this bill, for \u201Cstudents who knowingly make false or misleading statements in their applications:\u201D there is an expansion of \u201Cexisting offence provisions relating to student allowances . . .\u201D. That issue will be able to be dealt with, whereas previously it could not be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThat is the ACT Party\u2019s stand on this bill. We think the bill is very sensible and we will be supporting it, but we would like to see just one or two of the amendment provisions tidied up at the select committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022fccd84a49f14439281a62e5f1a858d72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fccd84a49f14439281a62e5f1a858d72\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, kia ora t\u0101tau katoa i t\u0113nei p\u014D. Nau mai, hoki mai ki ng\u0101 mahi o te p\u014D, otir\u0101, ng\u0101 mahi o te K\u0101wanatanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to us all this evening. Welcome, welcome back to the business of the evening, and, indeed, Government matters.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EEarlier today the Minister of Health outlined the strong actions taken by teachers at Rangitoto College in Auckland to protect the health and safety of students recently returned from Mexico. They took actions that demonstrated compliance with what I used to refer to as the NAGs\u2014the National Administration Guidelines\u2014to uphold and protect the health and safety of their students, and, from the M\u0101ori Party perspective, the Education Amendment Bill adds to that record by fixing up some of the policy gaps that could make our students rather vulnerable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EOne of the key issues initiated by this bill are the amendments surrounding the question of registration of, or authorisation for, teachers to teach. According to the Teachers Council, in 2007 an estimated 3,500 teachers working in New Zealand schools were unregistered\u20143,500. This means that 3,500 people had not been vetted by the police or did not have in place a current practising certificate to show they were fit to work. Even more disturbing was the admission late last year that there was an unknown number of unqualified people teaching in the country\u2019s primary and secondary schools. The admission, from the former Minister of Education, the Hon Chris Carter, was that unregistered teachers were undermining the profession, and that public concern could arise if it was found that there were significant numbers teaching without a current practising certificate or authorisation. I have to say that I find that a rather shocking admission from the former Minister. When we take our car to the garage, we expect that the mechanic is qualified to know one end of the carburettor from the other\u2014or so one would hope. Similarly, if we suffer from the pain of a toothache, we expect that the dental surgeon will have some skill to know what to do with the decaying tooth. So why should we risk exposing our children to teachers who are not registered or qualified to take on the responsibility of learning and teaching? Surely the education of our future leaders must be something we invest in and take seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe must protect the professional quality of the teaching sector, we must maintain teaching standards, and we must do both in the best interests of the student population. In our M\u0101ori Party policy document, \u201CHe aha te mea nui?\u201D, a very good policy document, we considered the notion\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022030b8594e0214f7e8cacf4de74ceb700\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: And National, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c49404f5ec246cbb9b6f317ebbf76d5\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK. We would like to add a little bit more that the M\u0101ori Party brings to the debate, which is a consideration of the notion of moving towards standards of cultural competency. That comes off, I suppose, the back of the developments around Te K\u014Dtahitanga project. So I am just signalling that if there is an acceptance of cultural incompetency, almost signalled by Te K\u014Dtahitanga project, in the teaching profession, then the M\u0101ori Party intends to address that in the near future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe support the moves in this bill to enable the Teachers Council and the Minister of Education to share data about whether teachers have current registrations in place. This was an initiative that the previous Government introduced and that Minister Tolley has now advanced into this legislation. It is a move, we understand, that has the support of the teacher unions and the School Trustees Association, and now, indeed, of the M\u0101ori Party. We believe that information matching will ultimately lead to the potential to raise the educational performance of students, and that that should be supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe note that a range of fines can be instigated for those boards that fail to employ registered teachers. Boards that employ unregistered teachers will incur a fine of up to $5,000, while the unregistered teachers themselves will incur a $2,000 fine. But surely the greatest penalty will be where the educational prospects of our students are compromised or hindered in any way by people who lack the skills, and indeed the capacity, to support and promote m\u0101tauranga, the love of learning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAlthough the information-matching proposals are supported, the amendments to place some management around the mechanisms for police vetting are a very positive development in the Education Act. This bill removes the requirement for all contractors to be police vetted, and replaces it with a requirement to vet only those who are likely to have unsupervised access to children at schools and early childhood centres. This change has come about from very strong reaction on the part of those in the education sector, to what they saw as being a rather over-the-top approach. Those in the education sector have told us very clearly that such measures would create immediate problems for school communities by setting artificial barriers beyond which volunteers would be barred from entry into schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESheridan McKinley, of Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu and Ng\u0101i Tahu background, has written as a researcher about the perspectives of M\u0101ori parents as they consider their aspirations for their children\u2019s schooling. The research report, entitled M\u0101ori Parents and Education/Ko ng\u0101 M\u0101tua M\u0101ori me te M\u0101tauranga, identified a key conclusion: how well M\u0101ori children do at school is strongly linked with how well parents and children relate to school staff. I ask members to just think about the possible scenarios that could have occurred with the previous proposals. For example, imagine a kuia decides that she has some spare time to assist with helping her mokopuna to read at school, a young dad on shift work decides he will give up some valuable sleep time, maybe, to help coach the school rugby team at lunchtime, or a koro decides that he would like to support the k\u014Dhanga reo by just turning up where and when he can. Imagine the reaction of their wh\u0101nau when, upon arriving at the school or centre, they are taken off down to the police station for a police check. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs someone who has had a fair bit of experience in the school education sector, I want to make it quite clear that every school benefits from the enormous contributions of volunteers from throughout the community. They run the cake stalls and sausage sizzles. They go on camp and help out at the marae, if their school has a marae. They help out on sports days, provide the transport, supervise the school discos, and so on. They are there in big numbers. As a nation, the volunteers who keep our communities afloat contribute more than $3 billion to the economy. But this is about more than simple dollars. Helping our schools to be reflections of their communities is an important goal in its own right. Strong communities come from everyone feeling that they have a role to play through their participation and ongoing contribution. During times of economic downturn, such a role is even more important in the growth of resilient and thriving communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe support the amendments, which minimise needless police-vetting and rapidly downscale the compliance costs that would have landed on school administrations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFinally, this bill proposes some minor changes to the current processes for teacher complaints and disciplinary measures. In essence, it enables a complaint assessment committee to suspend a teacher\u2019s practising certificate for up to 3 months if that teacher is being investigated on a complaint of serious misconduct by the committee, the employer, or the police. It seems a thoroughly sensible mechanism, which is how other speakers have alluded to it. Indeed, the possibility that a teacher could still be teaching while under investigation for serious misconduct is surely one that should not be entertained. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThese measures are sound, sensible, and, most of all, they are effective approaches towards ensuring health and safety issues are regarded as a priority in our schools and early childhood communities. For these reasons, we will be supporting this bill. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e802c26c41af4e0ba329d36a5e367381\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e802c26c41af4e0ba329d36a5e367381\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have been following the developments and initiatives that have unfolded in this Parliament in the last 6 months in respect of education. It is with some concern that I stand to talk about the Education Amendment Bill. Let me make it clear that I support the reducing of the compliance burden on schools and early childhood education services by allowing for vetting applications to be made directly to the New Zealand Police, but I do not support the provisions that weaken requirements for police vetting of contractors. I support the amendments that introduce information matching between the New Zealand Teachers Council and the Ministry of Education to identify individuals teaching in schools without registration. I also support the provisions relating to 3-month suspension of teachers\u2019 practising certificates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EMy concerns about the progress that education has made in the last 6 months stem from the seemingly ad hoc nature of the educational initiatives that have come before us. Those initiatives include national standards, fining parents of truants, plain English reporting, changes to National Administration Guideline 5, and now this Education Amendment Bill. As an educator for some time, my concern stems from the lack of a coherent, progressive plan to move the New Zealand education system into the future. From what I have observed, the initiatives developed over the last 6 months barely relate to each other, and they appear to be based on populist notions with little or no grounding in solid educational research. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EOn the issue of police vetting, I have concerns regarding the safety of students if there are people working in school grounds who have not been vetted. To illustrate my concern, I recall a conversation I once had with a social worker who made a list of 100 men from a particular community whom she wanted to work as role models with at-risk teenagers. Because a social worker selected these people, we would assume that they appeared to be upstanding members of the community. However, as a precaution the social worker asked police to vet those 100 names in case they had criminal records, only to find that 78 of the 100 of those male mentors had faced criminal charges for violence. This simple analogy serves to illustrate that this part of the Education Amendment Bill alone is an example of poorly conceived legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThat aside, my greater concern is that there is no link between the relaxing of police vetting and any sort of academic achievement. If we were to examine the research, we would find there are dozens of initiatives and strategies that we should be discussing instead that make real and significant improvements to educational achievement. My concern is that we have spent considerable time and energy debating issues that have no research to back their efficacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWhile we continue down this path of debating bills that have no basis in research, we will simply wander down a path of schools failing students. What everyone fails to realise as we debate this bill is that the secrets to raising educational achievement are actually no longer secrets. There is a pile of new research, much of it New Zealand - based, that spells out very clearly what schools, principals, teachers, parents, and students need to do in order to make students learn. This is the research that we should be debating in this Parliament. It stuns me to think that instead of focusing on what is known to raise achievement, we keep dreaming up unproven issues to fill the time and give the impression that progress has been made in the name of education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EResearch suggests that even with the strategies we have discussed, progress probably will be made. That is simply because there are few strategies that actually make students dumber. If the National Government claims that its initiatives will raise achievement, it is probably correct, but it is more likely to be a case of student achievement being raised in spite of these initiatives rather than because of them. What needs to be debated and examined in this House are those initiatives or strategies that have the most\u2014and I repeat, the most\u2014or greatest effect on achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ETo illustrate my point, there are dozens of initiatives that raise student achievement, and they are ranked from most effective to least effective. All of them can be found in this book I am holding, Visible Learning, written by Professor John Hattie. Let us say there were just 10 strategies that were proven to raise achievement. The question is why we would use the strategies ranked sixth, seventh, eight, ninth, or 10th, when we know that strategies one through to five will be more effective in raising achievement. Professor Hattie, an eminent New Zealand researcher, has done exactly what I have just described. He has written this fascinating book called Visible Learning, which is a synthesis of over 800 meta-analyses relating to achievement. I have checked through the strategies that Professor Hattie has analysed, and not only does police vetting of contractors not rate in the top half of those strategies, but it is not mentioned in the research at all. It is rated as being even less effective than those few strategies that do make students dumber. My question is why we are talking about police vetting when there are much more effective strategies for making students learn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI struggle to see the relevance of this part of the bill, which will actually jeopardise the safety of New Zealand schoolchildren, and I seriously believe that it is just a populist diversion. While we here in the House continue to draw the attention of educators towards issues that have no effect on raising educational achievement, we will simply divert them from the educational issues that will make a difference. In the House today at question time I heard about trade academies. I thought to myself: fine, trade academies probably do raise achievement, because, as I said earlier, there are not many strategies\u2014although there are a few\u2014that make students dumber. My belief is that trade schools will only be as effective as the quality of the teaching that goes on inside the trade academies. I have checked Professor Hattie\u2019s research, and trade academies are not mentioned per se. However, under the heading \u201CTypes of Schools\u201D, there is a part that describes charter schools, which are described as \u201Cpublicly funded schools that have been freed from some of the regulations and statutes that apply to other public schools, often of a particular flavour, and they usually involve some form of innovative teaching principles.\u201D I believe I am correct in giving a general description of what the trade academies would do. However, Hattie\u2019s research has ranked charter schools 107th out of 138 initiatives. That means they are way down on the list of effective strategies that make students learn. What will make students in trade academies successful students is the quality of the teaching that goes on there. Despite the low rank on Hattie\u2019s scale, an excellent trade academy with excellent teaching will be more successful than a mainstream school with poor teaching. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI ask members in the House whether, if they were to undergo life-saving surgery, they would prefer a surgeon who used an operating technique know to have the No. 1 success rate, or a surgeon who used the 107th most successful strategy. To relate that question to this debate, why are we not discussing issues and strategies that we know, because of the research, will make kids achieve? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EAs a principal I had to get all employees and contractors vetted at our school. I viewed it as one of those administrative tasks that just had to be done; so, like all good leaders, I delegated it. The systems our administrative office set up meant that the vetting just happened. I know that the majority of principals in New Zealand schools are teaching principals and they teach in small schools. But most still have a school secretary who really should be able to post off the vetting form and hand the confidential letter to the principal when it returns. The effort this takes is insignificant compared with ensuring the safety of our children. The system a school sets up can be as streamlined or as muddled as it wishes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe other concerns I have regarding this bill are around the sections that have been removed that no longer require the board of trustees to monitor the performance of the principal and the staff, and especially in managing and reporting against the school\u2019s aims and objectives set out in the school charter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI will finish there, but I want to end on the point that if we genuinely want student achievement to be raised, then in this Parliament we need to be examining and discussing the issues that are proven to make a difference to student achievement. There are piles of research that illustrate what those strategies are. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u00229ff0f34be6604b1cab5bd0b83bb59180\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ff0f34be6604b1cab5bd0b83bb59180\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the first reading of the Education Amendment Bill. The bill deals with three key messy issues in the education sector: reducing compliance issues around police vetting of contractors in, for example, early childhood education centres, and I want to talk about that in a minute; allowing body corporates to be limited statutory managers or commissioners; and repairing a number of issues that exist already with the Teachers Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI think we all believe that quality educational outcomes are critical to the future of New Zealand. I spoke about this at length in my maiden speech. Education is one of the fundamental planks of our Government\u2019s plan for the future, and everyone would agree that education is important. This bill is another step in that direction, along with national standards and the hundreds of millions of dollars that have been invested in school infrastructure. The Government is delivering confidence and helping to create aspiration for students and their parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI attended a low-decile school in eastern Christchurch, an area that commonly has problems with teacher retention, teacher training, and poor data quality, and that has poor student performance as a result. There are many preschools in my area and they are what I want to talk about. They do not have the same level of resources as preschools on the other side of town. Compliance costs have a considerable impact on the actions of the parents and the students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI will give a specific example of the benefits of this bill. My family and I have been involved in our local playcentre and kindy for over 30 years. I myself attended this preschool. With no large amount of resources available, the compliance costs of small early childhood education centres are considerable. We recently had to employ a contractor to build a new fence at the front of our local kindergarten. That contractor was required to be vetted by the police. That was ridiculous. We were volunteers who, unlike the previous speaker, had not had any experience of police vetting. We did not have any templates and forms. We had to create the whole process, and to ring the police. We did not know what to do, because no one had ever told us. With the resources wasted on that process, a group of us parents could have built the fence ourselves, as in a working bee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d76637bd1884932836ff53c41796f22\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Why didn\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3692b3a2a284b318bb8efd9573f950b\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I was saying, this is one of the issues that the bill is designed to fix. The current legislation is actually unworkable, and this amendment bill will put in place some good steps in the right direction. It will free up resources to be spent on children, and indirectly free up police resources to be used to catch criminals\u2014which is what the police are there for, of course. My own daughter, who is 3, will be a beneficiary of this bill, as well as the children of other families in my community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThe benefits can be rolled out across the entire country. The Ministry of Education estimates that in the order of $350,000 or more annually will be freed up as a result of the changes to the police-vetting procedures. That sum could be used to build a whole new preschool. It could be used to run a whole new preschool for 100 kids a year. We are a Government that wants more for our kids, and wants resources to be used in a way that makes sense. For an area like mine with a rapidly growing population in north-east Christchurch, this legislation is a good step\u2014removing that sort of compliance and using those resources in a better way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E The next move is to improve data matching of teachers. This is a problem across schools, and the bill\u2019s provisions will help identify teachers who, perhaps inadvertently, do not hold a current teacher\u2019s practising certificate. Many non-certificated teachers who will be picked up by data matching will not be aware that there is a gap that needs to be filled. The bill will put in place a regime to help those people re-qualify or, if they do not, get out of the system. The programme will be reviewed on its effectiveness after 6 months against the objective that all teaching staff be registered. This is good. It will allow for a feedback loop to check the system is actually working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003ELet us talk a little about the limited statutory manager and commissioner changes that are in this bill. As Anne Tolley spoke about earlier, there currently are 42 limited statutory managers and 29 commissioners. There are three commissioners in my area. My part of Christchurch has seen more than its fair share of commissioners and limited statutory managers. In fact, my former school principal has made a full-time career as a limited statutory manager since retiring 15 years ago. A number of people across the country are equally eminently qualified to do this role but do not meet the current criteria to be a limited statutory manager. The changes in this bill will allow more people to do that job and get problem schools back on track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker spoke about a gentleman called Professor Hattie. Professor Hattie has some good views and many of these have been adopted in some way. He was the developer of asTTle, an important tool in the use of national standards. An important plank of our party policy is implementing national standards for numeracy and literacy. I think that is an important step in the right direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI want to talk about some of the other changes that have been mentioned by earlier speakers. One is the change around playgroups. As a parent of two young kids, I say that playgroups are an important facet of the local community. In Parklands, where I live, over 100 kids attend the local playgroup. Many playgroups do not know the rules and guidelines about how to operate or run a playgroup. This bill will allow more clarity on how those playgroups should be operated and what rules and regulations should apply to them. These are positive things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThere are a number of other changes to anomalies. There are 13 major changes. They include allowing more flexibility for special schools and for school boards. Many schools, as a result of the nature of their community, do not have the right resources in terms of legal skills, financial skills, or the like. They cannot get them from their own community, but the school next door does have them. This bill allows some changes. It allows the merging of school boards and allows sharing of resources if the boards choose to do so. That would work quite well in many cases that I have run into in my area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EOther issues that this bill deals with are allowing the combination of new establishment boards, more flexibility when private schools are reviewed, and changing the time period for reviews by the Education Review Office. There are tidy-up issues around retrospective payments to integrated schools where there has been a mess-up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EAnother really interesting area is the offence mechanisms for student loans. I was a protester against student loans many years ago when they were introduced, and I must admit that many students put in place systems whereby they, knowingly or not, fill in forms to get the resources they think they are entitled to. Changes in this law will allow that to work in a better way. They will make sure that students are not taking advantage of the system, and that the resources are used in a more clever way. One of the other things this bill is designed to deal with is the suspension of teachers. At the moment, a teacher is suspended for, normally, 3 to 6 months. This bill will allow that suspension to continue, and there are good reasons for that in terms of suspension of the teacher\u2019s practising certificate. There have been some cases in recent times where suspensions have caused some problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThe bill clarifies a number of issues around special classes, special clinics, special schools, and special services. They are tidy-up provisions and make a lot of sense. They will reduce a bit of administration and work for officials, and for certain schools up and down the country. Another issue that has been pointed out is the definition of \u201Cinstitution\u201D and issues that arise around the requirements of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThe bill\u2019s changes are good and not controversial. The only thing that Opposition members seem to think is controversial is the issue of contractors working in early childhood education centres. The changes that this bill introduces are good, because they will allow small early childhood centres, like those I have been involved with, to operate more effectively and efficiently; allow the community to spend resources on the things it wants; allow the police to focus on what they should be doing\u2014catching criminals\u2014rather than vetting fence builders; and improve a whole series of other little snags that exist within the current law. Fixing these snags in the system is a worthy cause, and I think we should commend this bill to the House. If members opposite actually thought about some of the changes being proposed, particularly the issues of compliance, they would see that they are a major improvement for, particularly, small centres in the early childhood sector, rather than the secondary school sector. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u002283c93f081c524b9394cb5ddb81b600c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283c93f081c524b9394cb5ddb81b600c0\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Education Amendment Bill in its first reading, and it is my intention to support it in other readings as it comes before this House. This legislation will do a number of things. It will allow comparisons between information kept by the Teachers Council and the Ministry of Education to identify people who are teaching in our schools and to identify those who are teaching without registration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EEarlier tonight the Minister of Education said that these measures will reduce school compliance costs and improve efficiency in the education sector. The Minister is right. That is exactly what this Government is about. I congratulate the Minister Anne Tolley on giving the bill priority\u2014something, I note, the previous Government was at least consistent in failing to do. This Government wants schools to be able to get on with education to focus on teaching and learning, not bureaucracy. This bill is one more step towards making our schools better. The Minister has been extremely focused on delivering for schools and students in New Zealand. Our new Minister, Anne Tolley, has achieved more in the last 5 months than the previous Government did in 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe bill makes a number of small changes to enhance the effective governance of the compulsory education system and the effective administration of the compulsory and tertiary education systems. The bill will provide greater clarity around a number of definitions and will correct minor technical and drafting errors in the existing Act. These changes will help organise education efficiently and improve education legislation. The National Government is committed to working through the many inequalities and serious inadequacies that were left to it by the previous Labour Government and to ensuring that children in our schools are safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThere are around 90,000 registered teachers in New Zealand schools, and with few exceptions they are very good teachers. They have the great responsibility of raising the next generation of New Zealanders. These teachers tell me that they believe that they might not have been supported enough by the previous Government, but that this Government and our Minister have the future of young New Zealanders at the front of education policy. We have brought this bill before the House, and there have been many bills like this one focusing on education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EMany people are employed in and around our schools who are not teachers but who also have unsupervised access to our children. The vast majority of these people are law abiding and suitable to be in charge of students. However, sadly, not all have acted in the best interests of those children. The Teachers Council has estimated that there could be as many as 3,500 unregistered teachers working illegally. Not all of these unregistered teachers are likely to be acting inappropriately. In fact, probably very few of them are. But the checks have not been done, and we do not know enough about their background to be sure of the safety of our children in the charge of those people. That means they have not been police vetted as suitable to lead classrooms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EA quick check of media reports of the past few years\u2014all of the years the party opposite was in Government\u2014identifies potential problems we face in keeping our children safe in schools. In November 2001 the then Teacher Registration Board found that a teacher in Northland who was sacked over an alleged affair with a student had been teaching illegally for more than a year. That teacher lost her job, following complaints from parents and the young boy\u2019s mother of inappropriate behaviour towards this young student. The board said that it had checked its records with a view to striking that woman from the register and found that she had never been registered. The principal of the school concerned said that he had forgotten to check registration when employing that teacher. The board\u2019s director at that time, Harvey McQueen, was quoted as saying that this omission was serious and that the board could not deregister someone who had never been registered. In the case of this woman he said that it was unlikely that she would ever be able to be registered as a teacher again, or in the foreseeable future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn September of last year media reported that an unregistered alcoholic teacher with numerous drink-driving convictions was allowed to continue to work at a school after authorities learnt of his criminal convictions\u2014an unregistered teacher responsible for educating our young people. That case puts the spotlight on rules that allow people to take charge of classrooms before checks of their suitability are completed, and on privacy laws, as they currently stand, that prevent any negative findings from being quickly conveyed to the schools concerned. At the time this teacher was employed he had a number of previous convictions, which would have affected his suitability for that job, and a compulsory police check prior to employment, through registration, would have meant that this person would not have been in a position where he was responsible for our students. The principal of the school concerned said that had he known of the teacher\u2019s convictions, he would not have employed him. Obviously, the system is not working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn March of last year a male teacher in Auckland was convicted of indecent assault and sexual charges against girls that he taught. He quit when the allegations emerged in 2005, and then went on to work as a relief teacher in another school and as a voluntary coach in a girls\u2019 college. There are many more reports: a teacher convicted of assaulting his own child by throwing a knife at him; a teacher with fraud convictions; a teacher convicted of repeat drink-driving offences; another of violence against his wife in front of their children; teachers convicted of stealing from their own schools or inappropriate manhandling of students. All of those people lost their registration, or would have lost their registration, as teachers. However, the current checks and balances in the education system meant that, in many case, they could be re-employed as teachers without registration and without appropriate police checks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAs a parent, to me that is unacceptable. It is not acceptable that after many, many years the system is capable of letting down parents and their children. I condemn the delays and time-wasting on the part of the previous Government, which did not try to rectify these issues and was not capable of putting the safety of children forward as a priority, by passing a law when it had a chance, when it was in Government for 9 years. I note tonight that members opposite cannot even bring themselves to decide to support this bill and to support the safety of children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EYesterday in my electorate in Rotorua I went to Aorangi School, which is right in the middle of the Rotorua township. I was greeted and given a great welcome by 120 young students who had beautiful singing voices. It was great to see young 7, 8, and 9-year-old children standing up and speaking in M\u0101ori and welcoming our small party to their school. They are very good students. The principal and teachers are extremely committed to the school. The parents entrust their children to the care of the school, each and every day of the school week. This school has a very good feeling about it. It was positive and one could see that the interests of the child were put first. The teachers there are exceptional; they go far beyond the call of duty for their young students. I believe that the parents of the young kids at Aorangi School would want us to pass this law to ensure the safety of their children. I have absolutely no concern about Aorangi School and how it is being run; it is an exceptional school. But we need to ensure that our laws support those very good, registered teachers in their work in the school. I think the parents of this school\u2014many of whom might have voted for the party opposite once\u2014would want the Labour Party to work out what Opposition is all about, stop opposing everything just for the sake of it, and support this bill to help ensure the safety of these children. I am sure these words will fall on deaf ears and I do not expect the members opposite to think of the parents or the children of these schools, or any other school in my electorate any time soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe bill will identify teachers who are teaching without a current practising certificate or authorisation, and, therefore, schools that are illegally employing these teachers. It will focus on any person who will have unsupervised access to children in our schools, and ensure that appropriate checks of that person\u2019s character through police screening is undertaken before the person is employed or active in that school. The bill also provides for information matching between the New Zealand Teachers Council and the Ministry of Education to identify the registration status of people employed in teaching positions. This means that many of the people I spoke of previously for whom it was subsequently deemed not to be appropriate to have unsupervised access to children in our schools might not be employed or will not be re-employed. The bill provides the highest degree of assurance to parents that their children are being nurtured and are safe in our schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe bill also looks at police vetting. It creates new procedures and sets criteria for obtaining police vetting of people who will have unsupervised access to students. This bill provides a new definition for unsupervised access to children, and substitutes definitions for \u201Cplaygroup\u201D and \u201Chospital-based education and care services\u201D. The bill means that the New Zealand Teachers Council ceases to provide a police-vetting service to early childhood education services in schools, allowing those services in schools to apply directly to the police for these checks, a check that must be done and completed before employment commences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002235585299033445008003003fdd58d025\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Education Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b11b785b27ee4885947b2f7f911a66d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b11b785b27ee4885947b2f7f911a66d2\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education and Science Committee consider the Education Amendment Bill, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 28 August 2009, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226fd5b8137225446fa26d46e1aecea727\u0022\u003EPrivate Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8e5cf20eb9f4628bf593e01320d57e1\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u00226463dba44c084e15b4ff233403da08ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226463dba44c084e15b4ff233403da08ae\u0022\u003EHon Dr RICHARD WORTH (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill be now read a first time. It is my intention to move that the bill be referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee, with a report-back date of on or before 31 March 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill was introduced by the previous Government to replace the Private Investigators and Security Guards Act 1974. The Government considers that this bill warrants referral to the select committee, where it can be the subject of detailed consideration and public scrutiny. The security industry is being regulated by outdated legislation that is now overdue for replacement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe security industry is an important one. New Zealanders depend upon its members for their safety and security 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Members of the industry patrol and protect private properties, respond to alarm call-outs, and ensure public safety at major sports events and concerts, and in licensed premises. They also operate within workplaces to help businesses to protect themselves from theft and fraud. The industry employs more people than the New Zealand Police, and is often more visible. Just about everyone in this building will have been greeted by one of its members this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EReform of this legislation is also timely, with major events like the Rugby World Cup coming up in 2011. The Rugby World Cup is an opportunity for New Zealand to showcase all that it has to offer while people participate in the sport that we love. We will be depending heavily on the security industry to ensure that visitors and players alike can fully and enthusiastically participate in this event without fear for their safety and security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EPlenty of things have changed since 1974, when the current legislation was enacted, but the underlying objective of occupational regulation remains the same: protecting the safety of the public and the industry, and ensuring that the public can have confidence in the industry, but without burdening business with unnecessary bureaucracy and cost. Members of the security industry operate in a position of trust. The aim of the bill is to ensure that those working in the private security industry are of good character and properly trained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe bill will require a wider range of people performing security-related activities to be licensed. In particular, the bill seeks to extend regulation for the first time to personnel who are responsible for protecting people, or are keeping order. This means that bodyguards, private security staff guarding people in custody, crowd controllers, and bouncers will have to be licensed. The benefit of requiring security personnel to be licensed is that they will have to undergo a criminal record check, and can also be required to undertake training to ensure they are properly qualified to carry out security work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EUnder the 1974 Act, there was no way of ensuring that licensees and certificated employees had completed suitable training. That was because the Act did not require them to undertake any training. This bill will enable regulations to be made requiring training to be completed by applicants for a licence or certificate of approval. One of the problems that this bill seeks to address is the risk associated with untrained personnel becoming involved in a physical confrontation. Just last year the Wellington regional coroner, Ian Smith, called for compulsory training, following the tragic death of Cedric Joyce in Blenheim in 2005 after he was restrained by bouncers outside a pub. Inevitably, some members of the industry will sometimes find themselves involved in a physical confrontation, and it is in both the public\u2019s and the industry\u2019s best interests that security personnel are properly trained to deal with such situations. The bill sets up a mechanism to achieve that, and, ultimately, we will need to look carefully at who needs to be trained and what type of training is appropriate for different classes of security personnel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe bill will also set up an enforcement body called the complaints investigation and prosecution unit. It will be funded by the industry, and is intended to ensure compliance with the new legislation. It is intended that the unit would carry out investigations, provide information to the licensing authority, and carry out prosecutions. The bill also updates offences, and increases penalties. For example, unlicensed operators are a concern to the industry. The penalty for operating an unlicensed security industry business will go up from $2,000 to $40,000 for an individual and $60,000 for a company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI am aware that aspects of this bill will require careful scrutiny by the select committee. The Government has decided to proceed with this bill as it is, rather than to withdraw, review, and redraft it, because it is time to make some real progress on reforming the existing regulatory regime, and to give the public a chance to have a say on how the industry should be regulated. It is quite possible that major changes may be appropriate when detailed submissions have been heard and considered. In that respect, there are aspects of the bill that I encourage the select committee to examine closely. In particular, I expect that the select committee and submitters alike will look very closely at whether the reforms are proportionate, whether they take account of the small and flexible membership of many security businesses, and whether the scope of the regulatory regime is appropriate. The provisions in the bill that specifically govern the activities of private investigators are essentially unchanged from the 1974 Act, and will require extra consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EMost members of the industry are consummate professionals in whom New Zealanders can place their trust. However, regulation has the ability to encourage all members of the industry to meet the high standards that are expected today. It is my intention that this bill, when finally enacted, will achieve that in an efficient and cost-effective way. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u002248ef0086b1ac4e7988bc8c7e67fed1b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248ef0086b1ac4e7988bc8c7e67fed1b4\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in favour of the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill, which is still in the name of my Labour colleague the Hon Clayton Cosgrove. The bill will lead to a future where private investigators and private security personnel can know that they are part of a better-regulated occupation. It will be an occupation for which one must have a licence, which itself will have value. Indeed, not having a licence will be costly. It will be an occupation that may develop a code of ethics, which is something the Associate Minister of Justice did not mention. It will be an occupation whereby licensed persons might have a level of training and whereby the bad guys face a renewed array of increased sanctions and penalties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThis bill is clean-up legislation. It modernises earlier legislation that is now 35 years old, and it will allow occupations that are covered to be more valued by society, because people will know that those occupations are closely monitored. That is something that all good private investigators and all good security guards should welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI have done a bit of private investigation myself over the years, though not ever as a business; only ever in the public interest. Indeed, in recent weeks I have, by coincidence, investigated the Minister. It has been one of the most bizarre, rollicking, often troubling, and sometimes hilarious, experiences. As is often the case in private investigations, a lot of information is drawn from publicly available sources, as it was in this case. One Monday only a couple of months ago, the Dominion Post featured a story about the Minister taking himself off to India in a private capacity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fee25ca6c0d4099a7abf34fa67a9f60\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I cannot see what this has to do with the bill. I ask you to bring back the speaker to the substance of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217a8bf51a3054b38a60119a596e7ce01\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We are in a first reading debate. I have not yet heard what the member is saying, other than a reference to a Monday. If it proceeds past that, then I will intervene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e0674bf0d174265945076b42680ae31\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It certainly will proceed past the Monday, for indeed the story I intend to tell\u2014and to draw parallels with the legislation with\u2014goes on for weeks. I will make it quite a short story, though. On Monday the Dominion Post featured a story about the Minister taking himself off to India in a private capacity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022171299262b39473282058c54e06c85cb\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. He has now proceeded beyond that point. You said you would intervene; I request that you do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288c9aa619d174258bb9ad3bb60909eff\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I want the member to come back to the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill. I want the member to confine his comments to the substance of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdb3201d48af4fcbbe594b3aa6b0787e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI turn the attention of the House to clause 96(b), which gives us some insight into the importance of not giving false information \u201Cknowing that it is false or being reckless as to whether it is false.\u201D, which is the sort of thing that might arise with the story that has occurred as a result of my own private investigations into the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe Minister took himself off to India in a private capacity, in part to line up some student aviation pilots from India to train at the Southern Institute of Technology\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc9d0c90e7ee4b6c9ba98385bd118679\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This member is completely ignoring your ruling and basically flying in the face of the instruction you have just given. Are you going to allow it to continue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c8184f71c734366b28ad76d8496ec23\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am interested to hear what the member has to say. He is referring to a private investigation. This bill is about private investigation. I will intervene if I find the discussion to be outside the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e07a1050ba684cafbaf981d4d3a469de\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Furthermore, the Dominion Post pointed out that the Minister was at that time a substantial shareholder in a company that wanted to start a joint venture with the same Southern Institute of Technology for the purpose of that training. What was not in the public arena that morning but became available to the public that afternoon was that he had not told the Prime Minister about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221be56df409bc4d02992fea54ff416f12\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member to come back to the substance of the bill. The substance of the bill is about private security personnel and private investigators. That is what the substance of the bill is about, and I ask the member to confine his comments to those points. That is my ruling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a739e472cec4c5893bc4d10996eb0c3\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI draw the attention of the House to clause 39(1)(a), which states that a person who is licensed under this legislation might be \u201Ca private investigator employee:\u201D, and to clause 39(1)(b), which states that such a person might be \u201Ca security technician employee:\u201D\u2014and so it goes through to clause 39(1)(g). The point of those provisions is to ensure that a person is one thing and not another. Unfortunately, the Minister, on his trip to India, went as a private individual, but when he got there he said he was a Minister. He went as a private individual\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2f4e309637e44f4b58e7a2f5c7cafb2\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30dd5dd7c034cb4964e220c59d002de\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to rule. I ask the member\u2014this is the third time I have asked\u2014to concentrate on what the bill is about. It is about private investigations and private security matters. I ask the member to confine his comments to them. That is the third time I have asked. The member will please confine his comments to the substance of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f1d66e215114d8f8884ad747f92aff9\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: On each occasion I refer back to the substance of the bill and explain, by way of an example involving the Minister, why legislation of this nature is of consequence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003ELet me do it again: it is not appropriate, according to clause 77(e), to be involved in certain activities that might be regarded as misconduct. It is not appropriate under this legislation, looking at clause 77(h), to make a \u201Cfalse statement\u201D. My private investigations found that the Minister said he went to India as a private individual, but under close examination it turned out that he had used a ministerial passport. So we know that the Minister was acting contrary to the Cabinet Manual, because he went without declaring he had a personal interest\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb32ca1ec914942a4678c414e8109d7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is all very cute and clever, but, once again, your ruling is being completely ignored. Is there no sanction against this sort of behaviour, or does it just go on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d91f7366c7d49fe82d192427ef49558\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the point of order. The points that the member is making are in the public arena. They have been mentioned and debated in this Chamber before. The member, however, must relate them back to the substance of the bill. This bill is the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill. That topic is the nature of the bill. That is what we are debating in the first reading. The member must refer back to that topic. That is the substance of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222cd7da4f4d940209d78c535cc817656\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I refer to clause 77(h), which states that it is grounds for possible deregistration to give a false statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI will give an example of what a false statement is. The Minister, when he arrived at question time\u2014duly \u201Cbollocked\u201D by his Prime Minister, who, by the way, said parenthetically that the Minister was \u201Cstupid\u201D\u2014said he was going to divest himself of all his Indian-linked business interests immediately. He said that on Monday. On Tuesday he said to a member of the press gallery that he had already divested himself of all of his personal interests that were India-linked, yet a wee piece of private investigation showed this to be a false statement. Indeed, by Thursday not only had he not divested himself of one of the companies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225013fe4935034470bbd606be053c939f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has had 6 minutes of his 10-minute speech. Although he could mention, and he has mentioned, points that are in the public arena, I will say for the last time that he must draw back to the substance of this debate. The subject is quite clear. That is what we need to be debating, and the member has 4 minutes remaining. If he does not confine his comments to the nature of the bill, I will be terminating the member\u2019s speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb084b765a644f848c7cc4eb7e468471\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am a bit reluctant to intervene in all of this as I have been in the House for only 5 or 6 minutes. In that time you have been required to rule on the content of a very senior member\u2019s contribution to the House on at least six occasions. The matter, in my view, is no longer one of interpretation of the member\u2019s comments. The matter surely now becomes one of the fact that the member is refusing to listen to, or follow direction from, the Speaker. That is a far more serious issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ce393ed390e4586a3f1f2741de8b6e5\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for his comments. I have given a very clear indication to the member what my expectations are. If he does not confine his comments to the bill, then I will terminate his speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c689d3ee244080a406a9c04277ed81\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It must be in order for Mr Hodgson to speak about whether his own activities as a private investigator would be caught by this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212a7b5349f2246a49b4cebef56cc352d\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon Pete Hodgson, if he wishes to continue. He has 4 minutes remaining. I warn the member for the last time to confine his comments to the substance of this bill; otherwise, I will terminate his speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dea2d64e032a49cc8eeb16e8f47367a3\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Let me refer the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022354a2d0c424a46e59060bb923d1e428a\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Now he\u2019s a member of Parliament and also claiming to be a private investigator.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231bcbe70dbe74aad9b27ab36ab0c3834\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014and the \u201Corange roughy\u201D, and you, Mr Deputy Speaker, to clause\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f5e04aee0d74b539917881af905b4bd\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A member is known by his or her name. To refer to that member by a slang name is not appropriate. I ask the member to apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db0fe5b042664017846f48f937e89958\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I happily apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003ELet me refer the House to clause 106 (1)(l). That is a regulation-making law allowing for a code of ethics to be promulgated under this legislation. That regulation-making power enables a process by which this occupation, or that occupation, can develop a code of ethics that then becomes binding on that particular occupation. It is not an unusual regulation-making clause. In fact, codes of conduct or codes of ethics are not unusual codes themselves. Many professions have them\u2014indeed, Ministers of the Crown have them. The code of ethics by which Ministers of the Crown find themselves bound is not a legal document so much as it is one that is agreed by a process and adopted by convention. It is called the Cabinet Manual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe Minister who introduced this legislation has broken the Cabinet Manual. That is not my assertion; it is the assertion of his boss\u2014the Prime Minister of the land. It is of interest to me that the Minister would put forward legislation that has a regulation-making power within it to enable a code of conduct to be progressed, but that he is not able to follow the code of conduct in recent months himself\u2014not arguably, but provably. So the Minister should give some explanation as to why he thinks a code of conduct is terribly important for private investigators but is something that he does not feel so obliged to pay attention to when it applies to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThat is the point of my contribution. We have a series of regulation-making powers and a series of changes around licensing. We have a series of assertions about misconduct, including the importance of false statements, the importance of misleading conduct, and the importance of not giving false information knowing that it is false, or being reckless as to whether it is false. The Minister who delivered this legislation to the House has managed to break about half a dozen clauses in the legislation that he wants us to swallow. Well, I do swallow it. I think it is good legislation; I want to see it passed. I want to see it passed within a period of time that is far shorter than the 11 months that he has set for the select committee to look at it. But I do wonder at the idea of putting up a Minister who has himself broken both the spirit and the word of what is proposed in this legislation in his own life in recent weeks. I wonder whether that reflects the fact that the Minister has been told\u2014no doubt by other people in his caucus\u2014that he has to take his cue from the select committee process, and give it 11 months to consider the bill, because he does not have any more pulling power than that, understandably.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u002220fbf21c05ab421d9250af649d5c5f8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220fbf21c05ab421d9250af649d5c5f8c\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to speak on the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill. It has been said that although this bill may have been long overdue, the previous Minister, Clayton Cosgrove, actually missed the mark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe first major flaw in this bill, as has been said, was the way in which the review of the industry, prior to the drafting of this bill, was conducted. Justice officials were constrained to only the parameters of the existing Act, and were not allowed to go outside those parameters apart from training. So they did not actually look at some of the other areas\u2014one of which was the use of cameras and video equipment by private investigators. This is something that private investigators have been calling for, for a long time, and it is quite significant when one is investigating cases in regard to the accident compensation scheme. They are challenged by lawyers representing a person under question, and they are being asked questions relating, for example, to the colour of the jersey the person was wearing at the time he or she was seen to be perpetrating an act of physical activity while collecting accident compensation for a back injury. Investigators are not allowed to use cameras or video equipment, so they have to take substantive detailed notes. So there were some challenges around why that was not also revisited at the time of the review of this particular Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe next area of deficiency on the part of the previous Government was its inability to broaden the review to also cover increased powers of detention. It is to be hoped that the select committee will start to look at some of these additional areas that were not covered by the previous Government. It fell short of doing a proper analysis and review in regard to private investigators, security personnel, and the like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWe have to look at outlining a security officer\u2019s powers of arrest and detention. A private citizen has that capability, so why not strengthen a security officer\u2019s powers of arrest and detention as well? That should have been covered in the review. This debate is about what we allow private investigators and security officers to do, and the amount of responsibility they have in line with the requirement to be licensed. That includes those people under them, and I will talk a bit more about that in future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EMembers may well ask why these people need increased powers of detention. The answer to that is pretty simple actually\u2014they are picking up the slack where police are delayed in attending violent incidents. More and more people are now using private security, and that is their right, and, as this bill clearly indicates, the sector will be licensed. The bill quite clearly indicates that the sector will be licensed. Clause 16 sets out that the following people will have to hold a licence: private investigators, security technicians, security consultants, confidential document destruction agents, property guards, personal guards, and crowd controllers. Those are just some of the categories. There will also be certificates for other personnel who might not hold such a responsible role within any of those categories. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EIf we look at the case of security guards, we have only to look at Manukau City, which at one point employed security guards across the city on a 24-hour, 7-days-a-week basis. That was to strengthen security measures in the area. The council needed front-line police with statutory powers, rather than security guards who did not have those powers. In other Western countries such as Britain and Australia there are legislative provisions to extend powers of arrest and detention to adequately trained security officers. So the select committee might like to look at some of those aspects and see whether we would be justified in broadening out some aspects of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThere are some other issues to do with crimes perpetrated at night versus crimes perpetrated in the day, between the hours of 9 p.m. and 6 a.m. If the offence is perpetrated by day the maximum punishment must not be less than 3 years\u2019 imprisonment if a security officer is to apprehend an offender. I am sure that a lot of these issues will be brought forward at the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EOne of the other flaws identified in the legislation was that the new bill makes provision for a 3-month trial period during which an employee need not undergo training. That may need to be looked at again in order to test the efficacy of that requirement. There may be some temptation to avoid expenditure on the provision of professional security officers and to rely on in-house security staff who do not have further additional training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EIf we consider why it is necessary to license these people, we should look at the whole matter of police testing of the backgrounds, etc., of people in charge who are in jobs of responsibility. For a start, we can look at the case of a security guard in Dunedin who was jailed for 9 months after pleading guilty to the theft of $19,500 from an employer. It was later found that he had a history of previous offending between 1992 and 1995. Licensing of those personnel is seriously important. I think the matter of licensing is one really good strength of the bill, but it has to ensure that police checks can be done on all the people in those positions of responsibility. If there is an exemption, I ask whether the ability for police checks to be carried out will still be covered. Another security guard was sentenced to 180 hours of community work, 6 months\u2019 supervision, and fined $400 for theft of items from a film set. That guard was also convicted of cultivating cannabis at the same time. Those things might all have been revealed if the proper assessment and analysis of that person\u2019s background was actually undertaken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe select committee needs to look at this bill in regard to strengthening the requirements in terms of those personnel, which include private investigators, security technicians, crowd controllers, personal guards, and security guards. They are all in charge of very important aspects of the industry, particularly security guards. If we look at what was allowed in terms of employment occurring outside the licensing regime, employers are seriously limited in their ability to check the background of an employee. There have been incidents where some security guards have escaped the police and criminal checks that are so necessary. There were revelations that the Immigration Service hired bank and customs guards without work permits and with questionable security authorisations. They had been working for several weeks in banks and at customs clearing areas for cruise ship passengers on Auckland\u2019s waterfront. Those guards had very questionable backgrounds, so I cannot understate the importance of making sure that the particular flaws I have outlined in this bill are covered. I ask whether the certificates identified in this bill will give the ability for employers to do the full background checks necessary, so that security guards who hold positions of responsibility and have access to personal property and information act responsibly and do not put at risk those assets or the information they have access to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI think it is important that the code of conduct has been mentioned. It is important that this bill progress through its stages, that real consideration be given to it, and that some of those areas that have been omitted are taken into consideration. I am sure they will be covered by submissions. I know, having spoken to a private investigator recently, that the use of cameras and videos is particularly important, that such use needs to be seriously considered, and that the bill needs to be broadened to allow that to occur. I also know that increased powers of detention should be seriously looked at, having been so successful when adopted overseas. Categories for licensing and for certificates for those who do not yet have a licence but need to carry a certificate must be robust enough that adequate background analysis checks can be done. I am glad to support my most excellent colleague Richard Worth as he commends this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00225c95f1e2c9dc4c75844afd6d788d2f5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c95f1e2c9dc4c75844afd6d788d2f5e\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I too fully support the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill. I think it has considerable merit, and I am very pleased to see that it will be going to a select committee. Usually, under this Government, I get up in the House complaining that bills are not going to a select committee at all, or that they are going for a very short time and are being rushed back through the House, as has happened on the Commerce Committee. Of course, that is something our very efficient committee can deliver on in terms of our workload, but I am somewhat confused at why this bill has been given 11 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d0a3779c3b247089404dfc60b145c2b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on! Not you!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1dc7f60ff9b474ca9eedf8613536bad\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was confused until I heard Sandra Goudie\u2019s speech, because the Minister, Richard Worth, did not actually indicate in his speech why it was going to the select committee for 11 months, except for a very subtle reference to the fact that it might require a substantial rewrite. I think that is how he put it\u2014a substantial rewrite. He did say that he did not want to withdraw it and start all over again. What a lazy Minister! He is not withdrawing it and starting all over again. He is not doing his job. Instead, he is getting the chair of the select committee to stand up in the House and say what the Government is planning to do. That is very interesting. I think that the public have the right to see the bill the Government will in fact consider, not the one that was already introduced into the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0219d8328ef404d939cf273cd741f70\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not my select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed2f4063c9ae4139bc0a5b9b4c4c43c7\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry that I have the member mistaken for the chair of the select committee. She is desperate for me to acknowledge the fact that she is not good enough to be the chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee. That is fine by me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f523ba9333204f6b8ca1cc640a48aac0\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In the context of your earlier discussion, I ask you to bring the member back to the point of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b14d7fea7d9940de88178b55c8083f5a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a wide-ranging debate. We are on a first reading speech. There is nothing untoward in what the member has said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bec11bd968b34261ba6af1dd09101628\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I am referring to the fact that this bill is being sent to a select committee for 11 months. The reason that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b232d062cc104214a718c8bcd7ad9090\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dd414d35a724c8998486be657c14a2e\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: The Justice and Electoral Committee, as I understand it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f9820046a204d3584da63d9dfdb3471\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s nothing to do with my select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d73221a48c74b198e62bbffe4fc5fda\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I know; I have already apologised to the member. I have already said that she is not up to being the chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee. We all know that, and I am terribly sorry that I mistook her for somebody of intelligence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI want people to understand that she has actually told the House what the Government is preparing to do, and I think we have to focus on that, because this is the bill that will go out for public consumption. This is the bill that was subject to the regulatory impact statement. It is not the bill that will be reported back to the House according to both the Minister, who has indicated a substantial rewrite, and the somewhat less elegant member, who probably referred to gutting the bill\u2014because two things are missing from this bill according to Sandra Goudie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe first thing missing from the bill is the right to film and photograph people without their permission. There are all sorts of rights-to-privacy issues there, but she does not care about that. The other thing that is missing from the bill, according to Sandra Goudie, is the right for security guards and private investigators to arrest and detain. She wants them to have that right. Who does that now? The police do that. That is a police function. So the National Government is not only determining that we will have private prisons but also that we will have private police under the police State that it is sneaking in through the back door. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI say that the Minister has no right to rely on the existing wording of a bill just to get this devious plot brought before a select committee without proper consultation and proper reference to the public about the changes that might be implemented. I do not think it is appropriate that members of the Government know full well what the Government is planning to do. As soon as this bill gets to the select committee the private police option is in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a481830f423b43d9a4bbd8d3f31f7337\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: So?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022340e1e244e9c4876a1cd12094a12d640\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He said: \u201CSo?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d8ba4cc118c425884f6dd191613995d\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Of course he did. Members opposite have been briefed by their Government about what is planned. Government members are using the very good bill introduced by my very good colleague the Hon Clayton Cosgrove. They are putting it forward as a kind of Trojan Horse. But in behind the Trojan Horse is a design for a complete rewrite of the bill after 11 months at a select committee. What we will find is a private police State implemented by the National Government behind the closed doors of a select committee that is not open for public consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI refer the House to the regulatory impact statement in the bill as it stands. Of course, it makes the point that under the current Act people are already required to be licensed if they are running businesses as private investigators, etc. The point that is being made is that the weaknesses of the existing legislation were spelt out in the regulatory impact statement. The policy objectives were all set out in the regulatory impact statement. The options for reform were considered, then the particular requirements set out in this legislation were determined to be the appropriate way forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIt is true that people in the industry itself want the right to arrest and detain, and they want the right to take photographs or audio recordings without the subject\u2019s written consent. Of course they do! It is in their commercial interests to argue for that. But there are considerations that need to be put before both the House and the people of New Zealand before these things are debated at a select committee. I think that the Government should say exactly what it will do in this legislation. If the Government intends to bring in photographing, audio recording, and video recording provisions, and if it intends to bring in, essentially, a private police force option\u2014which is the arrest and detention provision\u2014then I challenge it to bring the Supplementary Order Paper to Parliament and refer it to the select committee, because to have the select committee make such substantial changes without the input of the New Zealand public would be a travesty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EEven I do not think that the National Government would stoop so low as to bring in a private police State without that sort of consultation. It is absolutely outrageous that the Government has put up this 11-month visit to a select committee in order to be able to do this in the closed environment of a select committee rather than in the open environment of this Parliament where we get a chance to debate the real issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIt is very important that we do move on this legislation. When we consider the degree of responsibility on the people in this sector and some of the issues that other speakers have already raised in the House, we see that this is actually an incredibly underpaid, overworked, and difficult area of work in which to operate. These people need proper training, proper wages, and proper conditions of employment. They need to have the professionalism that is associated with the changes proposed in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWe do not want to hold up the legislation. We are amazed, though, to find that there are further plans for this legislation once it hits the select committee. It is unfortunate that the changes are not being dealt with in an upfront way. The Minister himself may be a member of the Justice and Electoral Committee, where his bill will go for consideration. I hope we can get from him an absolute assurance that he will bring any substantial rewrite of the bill to the House by way of a Supplementary Order Paper to be referred to the select committee for the calling of submissions. Otherwise, an enormous travesty of justice could be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI do not believe that the Minister, in his heart, would want that to occur, because it is such a substantial change. Once private companies with commercial interests have the right to arrest and detain ordinary New Zealand citizens, we are talking about a private police State. There is no other way to describe it. I am deeply, deeply concerned about the references that have been made in this House to those amendments coming through the select committee process. That was ruled out by the previous Government, and I am happy to stand by that decision. I support the bill as it stands and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002265ac0aff57e14ae381b6dc92a293e99c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265ac0aff57e14ae381b6dc92a293e99c\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Greens will support the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill. It is good that it tightens up controls not only on private investigators but also on a range of other security people\u2014for example, security guards, bouncers, crowd controllers, and bodyguards. The bill also allows for regular registration of such people, proper training, a code of ethics\u2014which has been mentioned previously\u2014a complaints investigation and prosecution unit, and the imposition of higher fines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EHowever, as clause 101 states, security people do not have any more rights than any other citizen in this country, and under this legislation they are not allowed to imply that they do. I think that is quite correct. Security people are not allowed to wear clothing \u201Clikely to cause any member of the public to believe\u201D that they are police. Yet I think we all know that bouncers and security guards do wear uniforms that suggest to ordinary people that they are a bit like the police or have some sort of semi-police power. They often imply by their demeanour that they have the power to restrain, arrest, or remove people physically, and this is where it gets difficult. I agree with the previous speaker, Lianne Dalziel, that there is a concern that if this bill is changed it may be changed, based on the comments made by Sandra Goudie, in the direction of giving these security people aspects of police functions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe problem that is developing and that is leading us in this direction is that there has been almost a delegation of police functions to people who are not the police. A month ago there was a case at an Auckland City Council meeting where a person who goes along to those meetings quite regularly and who speaks out vigorously, sometimes not always in turn, but who is a committed citizen, was dragged out of the meeting and out of the building by a security guard. I sent a written question to the Minister to find out how many police are present at council meetings. The meeting of the Auckland City Council was a major one, but basically it appeared from the reply that the police had delegated those policing functions to private security guards, unlike here in Parliament where we have real police officers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe also see this problem at large events where there are crowd controllers. Often at large events not too many police are on hand, so security guards are relied on to keep order, even though they do not have any powers of physical restraint\u2014they rely on people thinking that they do have powers of physical restraint. There is also increasingly the problem of the police deputising civilians to look after prisoners when they are being transferred to a form of secure police custody. I think that all of this is leading in the direction that Sandra Goudie talked about. She called for increased powers of detention for these people, but, actually, they do not have any powers of detention let alone increased powers. So that is a matter of concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ac7077895e24fdd9709e361873323d6\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I think young Sandra let the cat out of the bag. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c6eff3bf1274e869801a9d23454b9b3\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I think that is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is another category in this bill that relates to private investigators and how much they intrude on people\u2019s privacy. Sometimes private investigators like to violate the spirit, and sometimes the letter, of the Privacy Act. It is good that there is a carry-over from the old Act into this legislation, in what is now clause 66, whereby private investigators are not allowed to take photographs or make video or audio recordings of people without their written consent. There are big penalties under this new bill for doing so without consent. Evidence from such illegal photos or recordings is not allowed to be used in legal proceedings, and that is all to the good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe extent of intrusion by private investigators into private lives can be a bit sickening. In October 2006 the Sunday Star-Times reported South Auckland private investigator Lew Proctor saying he had been investigating the private lives of Helen Clark, her husband, and other Labour MPs. The ban on photos is good. However, there is a bit of a contradiction in the law, in that as far as I can tell it is not illegal to put tracking devices on people\u2014on their car, or whatever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe prohibition on photos and videos is more honoured in the breach than in the observance by some private investigators. For example, in 2006 the Save Happy Valley Coalition, which protested Solid Energy\u2019s proposed West Coast coalmine in order to protect the pristine natural environment, discovered a digital video camera hidden in the forest to spy on its protests. It was probably put there by a private investigation firm called Thompson and Clark Investigations, which we know was hired by the State-owned enterprise Solid Energy to spy on protesters. Thompson and Clark Investigations even put an infiltrator called Ryan into the protest group. That person became disenchanted with doing the spying and blew the whistle to the Sunday Star-Times. The Sunday Star-Times also reported at the time that another infiltrator, who was called Somali, was put into the Wellington Animal Rights Network. According to the Sunday Star-Times it was likely that Somali was also put into the network by Thompson and Clark Investigations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt seems logical to me that if private investigators are not allowed to take photos of people, then morally it would be utterly wrong to infiltrate a group to pretend to be a protester in order to betray and undermine the collegiality and trust of groups that are acting for a very good cause, for the most part. In fact, Helen Clark said that Thompson and Clark Investigations, in paying Ryan to spy on the Save Happy Valley Coalition on behalf of the State-owned enterprise Solid Energy, was acting in what she called an unacceptable way. The Minister for State Owned Enterprises at the time, Trevor Mallard, said that this had to stop and that State-owned enterprises were required to act in a socially responsible manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EPrivate investigators often think it is OK to cross the line between collecting information on people in the public space, which is OK, and acting in a covert manner, such as infiltrating organisations to gain more of what Trevor Morley, the President of the New Zealand Institute of Private Investigators, calls \u201Ccompetitor intelligence\u201D. Hopefully, a code of conduct will finally be established, as provided by regulation under clause 106, to prevent unethical behaviour by private investigators. The Greens will be watching this process closely, and we are very happy to work with the Government on refining this code. One of the most important things will be to stop private investigators infiltrating protest groups, or private companies arranging for the infiltration of competing companies. Hopefully, the ethical provisions of the new code of conduct will prevent all this. We must hold the line, because particularly with the advances in surveillance technology, whereby one can spy on people from a long distance and use electronic devices to hear what they say, and with the development of computer hacking and all sorts of techniques in that regard, we must have strong regulation, a strong code of ethics, to govern the private investigation industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt is good that a long period is provided for this bill to be considered, although there is a bit of a contrast between the 11 months projected for this bill and the less than 1 month projected for a bill discussed earlier this afternoon\u2014the bill implementing the Agreement Establishing the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area. I think there should perhaps be a longer period for the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill to be considered than is the case for that bill. The Green Party is supportive of this bill, but we will be pushing for a strong code of conduct. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u00227c2fb1adca894ec3a3a4b2dabc4b4fef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c2fb1adca894ec3a3a4b2dabc4b4fef\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to support the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill. Before I go on to the substance of my contribution, I am somewhat bemused and amused by the Hon Lianne Dalziel\u2019s comments on police States and private police. I will venture to give her a slight history lesson about the establishment of the police by Sir Robert Peel in England in the 19th century. It was made very plain that the police were intended\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b616dd8c43404a01992fde219348936d\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure this is definitely associated with the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215ab300996ef49ebacfd6e9139e71545\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: It will be in a second.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c7257e4a1e940c5a1f17dd130cc05ac\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Hold on. Help is on its way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cfc1a75312142c88631a00f79ca594d\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, just watch this space. Sir Robert Peel established the police and made it very plain that they had no greater rights than the ordinary citizen; they were simply there to act as a voluntary organisation charged with assisting to maintain the rights of the ordinary citizen. We inherited that tradition of fearless policing on behalf of the ordinary citizen in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EBut what happened when Labour was in Government? Members will recall an incident whereby one Tim Selwyn was charged with, convicted of, and served time for sedition for putting an axe through the window of the previous member for Mt Albert. Can anyone believe that if Mr Selwyn had put an axe through the window of Mr Locke\u2019s office or Mr Hide\u2019s office, or Mr Power\u2019s office for that matter, he would have been charged with sedition? I do not think so. What happened there? What happened when the police looked at the case about a certain painting? My understanding is that it went not only to the Wellington police, who said there was a prima facie case of fraud\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1fe0c94032d4edca7a9b9873c3b47a0\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s this got to with the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec1c137ee12c48fa8b2a166c61427239\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: You raised the issue of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4c3d81754114e9888e7c908abcc4b3a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member to come back to the substance of the bill that we are debating and to confine his comments to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db5abcb2d85e40afa70337bf31db81a9\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: I was taught at law school that the starting point with any bill is to look first at the ill that is being caused. What is the mischief that is to be solved? I will give the House an excellent example of the mischief that this bill is designed to solve. Mr Cosgrove must take credit for it, frankly. It attempts to prevent, and in fact will prevent, the activities of outfits like Rent-a-Bro, which is a branch of the Mongrel Mob. They act as \u201Csecurity guards\u201D. They employed one Mark Stephens, once known as the \u201CParnell Panther\u201D. He is a very unpleasant individual whom I have personally had the misfortune of meeting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273af30edc048489cb8ddee8b7ab2470a\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Have you met him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8f4a19dc58c44cb81f9defa71ac9c29\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have. He is an extremely unpleasant and intimidating individual. He was employed by Rent-a-Bro to collect debts. Because the industry is unregulated, he was able to go around to some Chinese people\u2019s places to collect a debt. Mr Mark Stephens, for those members who are unaware, and who are familiar with imperial measurements, is about 6 feet 4 inches in height and about half that in width. He turned up at a couple of Chinese people\u2019s places, wearing his Mongrel Mob patch, and announced that he was a member of the Mongrel Mob and he was there to collect a debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EMr Mark Stephens, the \u201CParnell Panther\u201D, is a member of the Notorious chapter of the Mongrel Mob. The Notorious chapter of the Mongrel Mob has been extolled by Mr Cosgrove\u2019s friend Mr Kim Workman as a great example of the kind of gang that moves beyond crime and into legitimate business. Rent-a-Bro was supposedly that kind of legitimate business. But Mr Stephens turned up and because he is a bit thick he said he was actually with the Mongrel Mob, and not with Rent-a-Bro. The victim of his intimidation was terrified, and not surprisingly. He was a Chinese person and very small. Mr Stephens stayed for an hour. This person then complained to the police. I will leave the House to judge the good sense of the judge who, when Stephens came before him, said he accepted that Stephens had gone there in good faith. He had gone there in good faith, but it was his referring to the Mongrel Mob that was the problem. The judge then went on to say, correctly and clearly, that the only reason Stephens referred to the Mongrel Mob would have been to intimidate or to overcome resistance to paying. So that is the kind of evil this bill is designed to cure, and I commend the Labour members opposite for starting the process to cure that kind of thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThe Minister has mentioned already the death of Cedric Joyce in 2006, which was another example of the kind of security that older members of the House will remember\u2014and they will remember the Hells Angels providing it, at Altamont, back in the 1960s. This bill is intended to take us away from all that and, as other members have said, to establish a basic level of skill and understanding, to ensure that training and governance are effectively given, and to develop training standards and requirements in the industry that will remove reliance on people like Mr Mark Stephens of the Notorious chapter of the Mongrel Mob\u2014the reformed gang member Mr Workman is so proud of. Those people will be taken out of it; they will not be able to get jobs any more, and that has to be good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThe bill will keep criminals such as Mr Stephens out of the industry, remove their sense of authority to act in the way they do, and stop them from intimidating people\u2014because that is what they are about, of course. I notice that the members opposite have gone a bit quiet. That is what those people do. They are not successfully\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226555013c80a411ba7ada5a44515e666\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You tried that on the Back Benches TV show\u2014intimidating people, didn\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022179b71a26905481fa9b6e66895cfece0\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes, he has started up again. They are not successfully rehabilitating criminals, at all; once a gang member, always a gang member, and Mr Stephens is a great example of it. Again, this is an example\u2014a rare example\u2014of the ACT Party supporting public expenditure. We recognise that fees created by, or to be charged pursuant to, this legislation are necessary, in order for the proposed authority to act in the best interests of the public, and to legitimise an industry that, as the Minister said when he introduced the bill, has operated under legislation that is now some 35 years old. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EWe have some small reservations that the planned authority does not become overly bureaucratic, and does not stifle an industry from developing and operating efficiently, but we have no hesitation in supporting this bill to go to a select committee. Like National, we look forward to refining the bill and hearing submissions. I am sure they will be wide ranging. Perhaps even the Notorious chapter of the Mongrel Mob will make submissions on why it should be allowed to register Rent-a-bro under the new legislation. The ACT Party will support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00229085ffdde07443be8ce37a9a8b145aa3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229085ffdde07443be8ce37a9a8b145aa3\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. I hope I take a different line from Mr Garrett\u2019s revelations in respect of gang leaders as we talk about this particular bill, in the hope, of course, that we start talking about positive ways to address these sorts of issues. The constant haranguing of those people will probably not do us too much favour in trying to rehabilitate some of the issues they currently face. Be that as it may, as we turn to this bill I say that when many M\u0101ori consider the notion of \u201CPIs\u201D\u2014private investigators\u2014some of the younger generation, like me, think about Magnum, P.I., that programme that used to be on TV. You might remember him, Mr Deputy Speaker. He lived in Hawaii, a very \u201Cunlucky person\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afa3ce9bec3d47e685db5f124b73f9cf\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, John Key!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273c0f912ec244e04801e9aec9a793f9a\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014who worked when he wanted to, just like Mr Hughes. He had access to beautiful women\u2014that is questionable\u2014an overflowing beer cabinet, which is also questionable, and he had a Ferrari. I am not too sure about that one for Mr Hughes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThat is, I suppose, the notion that some of us have about private investigators, whereas the relationship of M\u0101ori to security guards is well-established on the other side of things. In fact, I understand that a well-known artist\u2014namely, Michael Parek\u014Dwhai\u2014has even created some sort of art feature that has 15 brown fibreglass figures posing as security guards somewhere in Aotearoa. I am led to believe that the theme throughout the work is of a stereotypical M\u0101ori male, standing guard outside bars, clubs, and social events. It is a figure we can all probably quickly identify; it is a study in being staunch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis bill puts together two categories in dealing with the Private Investigators and Security Guards Act of 1974. It is putting in place measures to ensure that both private investigators and security guards are appropriately qualified to undertake their work, and that their conduct is consistent with the public interest. The important distinguishing point about this bill, however, is that it is not just restricted to private investigators and security guards. In reviewing the licensing requirements for the security industry, the bill now brings within its fold a much wider group: private investigators, security technicians\u2014that is, those who fix burglar alarms or security cameras\u2014security consultants, the agents who offer confidential document destruction, property guards, personal guards, and crowd controllers, whom we might more commonly call bouncers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAlthough the scope of people targeted has broadened, there is more flexibility about the requirement for licensing renewal and certification. Indeed, it is a huge\u2014a massive\u2014jump from the expectation of being subject to an annual review to now having that review every 5 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe other major aspect of the bill, outside the licensing changes, relates to the policy goal that the conduct of those in the security sector is consistent with the public interest. For a classic example of this, we need think only of the events that shook Aotearoa in October 2007. We might remember that Peter Williams QC was one of the first off the blocks to call for private investigators to look into the facts of the police raids that took place in Ru\u0101toki that year, under the auspices of the Terrorism Suppression Act. In speaking out, Mr Williams challenged the State. He issued a statement well-known in M\u0101ori circles: waiho m\u0101 te ture an\u014D te ture e patu\u2014let it be for the law to beat itself up. His urgent recommendation was that all New Zealanders should be concerned at the breach of rights that unfolded in the nation of T\u016Bhoe. He suggested that there should be some private investigators to get all sorts of statements, and to bring action to the High Court for exemplary damages and compensation for all of those who were badly treated. So we saw with the events of October 2007, perhaps, a new environment where private investigators might well be considered a useful investment for M\u0101ori to call on for support and expert advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill makes an important start, as I say, in regulating the private security sector. It brings into being a conversation about professionalism, integrity, and respect\u2014values that are at the very essence of any aspect of the security industry. The M\u0101ori Party believes, however, that further amendments are needed to ensure appropriate standards of conduct are set and maintained. As a core requisite of standards of conduct, we recommend that anti-racism training for private security personnel needs to be included in the code of conduct when it is developed and implemented. This bill introduces more objective criteria in determining who will get licensed. The licensing authority will retain discretion to assess suitability of applicants, but the prevailing emphasis is on consistent values and standards by which we come to regard this profession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWithin these criteria, we hope that cultural competency will be elevated to be a significant component of the registration of competent and licensed private investigators and security guards. We will be looking forward to more detail coming out at the select committee phase around the licensing process\u2014namely, who gets approved. Although certain categories of people under both the current Act and the provisions of the bill are disqualified from applying, there needs to be a more robust mechanism than conviction of certain offences to determine whether someone is suitable to be a licence holder or to be certified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe will be strongly recommending that those who have had experience in this sector, those who are currently practising within it, those who have left the industry, or those who have been at the receiving end of the management and operations of personnel should be involved. For example, if there are people who have had unsatisfactory experiences with security guards, or perhaps bear resentment towards the activities of a private investigator, it is vital that we hear their views alongside the views of those who may be more positively inclined. A key principle for the M\u0101ori Party in coming to this bill is that we want to be absolutely certain that the power of security staff is appropriately balanced to ensure the rights and safety of the public. Clarity around these standards is critical to ensure the credibility of the security industry while also adhering to due protection of the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAt the heart of the issue is the role of power and control. Although security workers and other personnel across the sector do not have the same power as a police officer to remove a person\u2019s liberty, they do hold aspects of power in their roles, and need to be duly responsible with that power. Feedback that we have picked up from the sector shows a desire to see a code of conduct actually developed and used to establish and maintain industry standards. This has never been done as yet, even though I am led to believe there is provision to do so in the 1974 Act. A code of conduct would provide a mechanism by which to monitor and review the standards of practice through adherence to a code of conduct of licence and certificate holders. This will be especially important given that the licensing period is now 5 years, and also to be able to better regulate the conduct of those who are already licence and certificate holders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere are many issues and experiences that come with this bill that will benefit from more intense scrutiny at the select committee. In light of the need for more information and, indeed, more analysis, the M\u0101ori Party is happy to support this bill at its first reading. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9a5ac79e2504252ab41ddfc222ac230\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9a5ac79e2504252ab41ddfc222ac230\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E It is very good to rise and speak in favour of the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill. I start by talking about private investigators; I accept from the outset that this detailed, comprehensive bill is not only about them. Indeed, it regulates many others, including security technicians, security consultants, and the like. A private investigator\u2019s role is a tough one. They are often involved in fairly tedious watching work\u2014for instance, watching people potentially breaking the rules of Work and Income, the accident compensation scheme, or the like. However, that is sprinkled with moments of excitement and, some would say, danger. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAs a young commercial litigation lawyer, it was my pleasure to, on occasion, instruct private investigators to find individuals who had gone missing, or to do work in relation to crash scenes and piece together what had happened. Like the Hon Pete Hodgson, who said that he had been an amateur super-sleuth in the past, I remember doing the work myself many a time when a case would not justify the hiring of a private investigator: looking to find an individual and then dropping documents on him or her in various places. There is a point to these stories, by the way: it is to prove the importance of regulation in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI also recall instructing private investigators in the leafy suburbs of the Hon Rodney Hide\u2019s electorate to find an individual and serve him with documents. The difficulties with that task were immense given the individual\u2019s electronic gates. What investigators would do in this situation, and what this particular individual did, was to stick a rubbish bin in front of the gates so that the individual had to get out, and therefore could be served. In fact, the individual drove at the private investigator, and I have to say that it did not have a particularly good ending. As I say, it can be a tough and quite responsible job, and it calls for regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1727ce374cc494ea81205ef7de1d1b5\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What else did you instruct? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df4116208a5441ec8936ad1c663ea674\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is funny you should say\u2014I am sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker; I did not mean to bring you into the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI recall older colleagues providing many a war story in relation to private investigators working in the times before modern divorce, when adultery had to be proven. This required quite a bit of work by private investigators\u2014indeed, it was a staple of their work. Evidence needed to be collected and this would involve the private investigator sitting outside Cobb and Co. or the like, watching what happened, going back to the address and sitting outside, watching the couple go inside, watching the lights go on, watching the couple go round to the bedroom with\u2014again\u2014the lights going on, and then often having to go outside under the window. I am told that there would be evidence in court of what the private investigator heard in listening to the said adulterous act. So, as I say\u2014and I make a serious point\u2014regulation of this often tedious but sometimes dangerous and exciting job is required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis bill does more than just regulate private investigators; it regulates a whole host of individuals employed in the security industry. It is an important bill\u2014and I accept that it was originally brought in by Labour and the Hon Clayton Cosgrove\u2014because we have not seen a revisiting of the 1974 Private Investigators and Security Guards Act since its enactment. It is not before time that we come back to this legislation. National is in favour of regulation where it is appropriate: not regulation for regulation\u2019s sake, but regulation that has a real purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis bill does four broad things. Firstly, it weeds out the inappropriate regulation from the industry. As I say, when these people are doing sensitive, often delicate, and sometimes dangerous work regulation is very important, and a comprehensive licensing regime is brought in through this bill. Secondly, it trains the industry adequately. Again, when we are dealing with often sensitive matters, training in this area is particularly important. Thirdly, it incorporates a code of ethics\u2014that is important. Finally, it provides for offences and penalties and lifts those penalties substantially to provide a deterrent effect. We can understand why that is important given that this area has not been revisited since 1974\u2014quite some time ago, and, indeed, before those divorce laws that I talked about earlier were changed. The licensing is important. Members will be glad to know that I am not going to take the House through any of the details at this point, but I will say that the legislation extends the old 1974 Act in quite comprehensive ways. That is all to the good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ENext we move to training. I note that this was an area where there simply was no provision under the old 1974 Act. I am sure the House will agree that this was a major shortcoming in the legislation. When we think about the various players in the industry who are regulated here, including bouncers\u2014called something like \u201Ccrowd controllers\u201D in this bill\u2014we find that they are often in high conflict and, as I say, sometimes dangerous situations where they encounter either potential or real violence that can be literally life-threatening. I argue that it is beyond doubt that they need training to de-escalate and turn things around, and that is what this bill provides for. As I say, the bill provides for a code of ethics. That is important so that private investigators do not do things that they should not do. I heard the Hon Lianne Dalziel\u2019s speech and her fears that this bill might somehow bring in private policing through the back door. That is not right, at all. When one looks at this code of ethics, one sees that it is very important that private investigators appreciate that they are not private policemen; they do not have the powers that police officers have. They do not have the court\u2019s permission for surveillance or for searching premises. The National Party takes privacy rights and the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act very seriously, indeed. That is why one of the four primary purposes of the bill\u2014that is, to bring in a code of ethics\u2014is particularly important. I mentioned the offences and the penalties, and said there was a need for modernisation of the 1974 legislation and for higher, more deterrent-based penalties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIn summary, this is a good bill. It is a worthy bill. Private investigators and others who will be regulated by this bill are often involved in tedious\u2014some would say boring\u2014jobs, but ones that are sprinkled with danger and with aspects that need regulation, licensing, training, and the like. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00223122b59f1d1a4573a2da67d17eeafa8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223122b59f1d1a4573a2da67d17eeafa8b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As prior speakers on behalf of the Labour Party have already indicated, the Labour Party is supporting the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill in its current form. Coming towards the end of the first reading debate on this bill, it is opportune that we have the chance to respond to some of the misguided comments that have been made, particularly by Mr Garrett on behalf of the ACT Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EMr Garrett stood up and gave a 10-minute speech saying that this bill was being supported by the ACT Party because the bill addressed the problem of the \u201CParnell Panther\u201D, acting through Rent-a-Bro as a debt collector, standing over people to collect debts. He said it was absolutely abhorrent for Rent-a-Bro, or the \u201CParnell Panther\u201D through that organisation, to be standing over people to collect debts. I agree that that ought not to happen; it is probably regulated against already by the criminal code. But I tell Mr Garrett that this bill does not affect debt collection. This bill does not do anything to control debt collection. It controls the acts of private investigation, crowd control, and some other things that are specified in the Private Investigators and Security Guards Act. But this bill does nothing to control debt collection. So those were hollow words from Mr Garrett, and I am somewhat disappointed that he did not read the bill before he made those comments. He is a lawyer, and I would have thought that his failure to read the bill was pretty readily apparent from the fact that there is no reference to debt collection in the explanatory note of the bill or in the legislation. It is pretty clear that he got that wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI also respond to the member for Tauranga\u2019s response to Lianne Dalziel\u2019s concerns about increased powers for security personnel and about the privatisation of some of those functions, which could occur if powers that are currently held only by the police are extended to security personnel. That member may not have been in the House when his colleague Sandra Goudie gave her contribution, which caused Lianne Dalziel\u2019s concern. I share Lianne Dalziel\u2019s concern, as a consequence of what Sandra Goudie said to the House. She said the reason it is proposed that there will be a very long period for the select committee to consider the bill is so that the committee can consider whether there should be some quite major extensions to the powers of security guards and private investigators, including consideration of whether they need to be given powers to take photographs and to conduct other surveillance techniques that are currently illegal for them, and powers of arrest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESuch extensions of power would be very, very serious intrusions into civil liberties that I hold dear and that Lianne Dalziel holds dear. I would be most upset if a bill that presumably has a New Zealand Bill of Rights Act vetting from the Attorney-General in its current form was to have those powers put in it at the select committee\u2014powers that are not in the bill that is going out to people for them to look at and submit upon at the select committee. If there was to be a dramatic change to the powers of security guards and private investigators, then it would be quite inappropriate for that to be done through this bill unless, as Lianne Dalziel said, a Supplementary Order Paper was presented through this Parliament to the select committee, and there could then be separate submissions made upon it. I would be very sure that if that were the case\u2014if there were to be major extensions to the powers conferred upon private investigators\u2014we in the Labour Party would then oppose that. It is not justified; there is no need for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere are plenty of instances in recent years to show why we should be concerned about granting those sorts of powers to private investigators, which would reduce the civil liberties that we all enjoy in New Zealand. We ought to protect ourselves, and protect ourselves assiduously, against any unwise and unnecessary watering down of civil liberties. I think one of the examples that we heard from the M\u0101ori Party actually went in exactly the opposite way to that which the M\u0101ori Party intended. The M\u0101ori Party complained that the State inappropriately used powers under the prevention of terrorism legislation in the Ureweras in respect of T\u016Bhoe. [Interruption] The member may well be right that the State did use powers wrongly in that area if it had intended to use them under the prevention of terrorism legislation. But in the end, of course, the Crown did not bring charges under the prevention of terrorism legislation. How can that be seen as a justification for giving more powers to private investigators? I cannot follow the logic there. If we complain that the State already has too many powers, or might use the powers that it has too much, then how do we cure that problem by giving more powers of intervention, further undermining civil liberties, to someone else? I do not follow the logic of that, I am afraid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn terms of recent examples of situations where we can see civil liberties may have been inappropriately intruded upon\u2014the freedom of individuals to go about their lives free of inappropriate intrusion by private investigators\u2014we need to think no further back than only about 3 years ago. About 3 years ago I was a Minister in the previous Government. The Exclusive Brethren, who we know had some pretty shonky dealings at the election of 2005, did not just fund about $1 million of expenditure, or up to $1 million of expenditure, on the part of the National Party. I think that is to the shame of the National Party, but that is not the point that I am focusing on now. The point is that after the election, the Exclusive Brethren were funding private investigators. What were they funding those private investigators to do? They were funding private investigators to pursue their politically motivated witch-hunt, and those private investigators were investigating members of Parliament, and, effectively, harassing them. Whom were they investigating? They were investigating the Prime Minister, Peter Davis, Dr Michael Cullen, me, and David Benson-Pope. I remember these issues well, because they affected me and my family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI will not agree that there is any need to give the right to private investigators to do those sorts of things any more than they can currently do them in law now. There is no need for them to have increased powers of surveillance. There is no need for them to have powers of arrest. There is no need to give them any more rights to intrude upon my privacy or the privacy of members opposite. [Interruption] I know this bill was drafted by the Labour Party, and it does not extend the powers of private investigators. We have a member of the National Party, Amy Adams, who says the bill does not do that. The member needs to talk to her colleague Sandra Goudie. [Interruption] Well, thank you. I am glad that someone has spoken to the member\u2019s colleague Sandra Goudie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20090428d9b4dbe147384dbca50e9547893ecb05000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"