"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a1659bc0b2b4c428f1c471cbd20b83a\u0022\u003EWednesday, 26 August 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022823300e6e6f746868fd2488bfbe1dca5\u0022\u003EWednesday, 26 August 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cd767a5559b4e8ab2c13cd2f14c4f2e\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9332a748fb8428ea34230d5f02d999d\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c9a69b6d5dc4f858b3ea7d6df3760b7\u0022\u003ERetail Deposit Guarantee Scheme\u2014Extension\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5b46ab6f2ed4e538df7462ebde6fdbb\u0022\u003E1. DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What advice has he received on extending the retail deposit guarantee scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00228016684e32ad417798732f0097440556\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228016684e32ad417798732f0097440556\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I have received advice that the extension of the scheme until 31 December 2011 provides certainty for investors and institutions. The alternative was to allow the scheme to lapse on 12 October 2010, which would have created a high degree of uncertainty and could, in turn, have resulted in a loss of confidence in some parts of the finance sector, thereby undermining financial stability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d439fad20a064e6d81a3d4d5ced006c8\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How is the extended scheme consistent with new Reserve Bank requirements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022295dec7d94be4cc5a09f7e4c8e6f7bc4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In the commentary on the scheme there has been some confusion about the distinction between the Reserve Bank requirements and the deposit guarantee scheme. Last year this Parliament passed amendments to the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act that require all non-bank institutions with deposits of over $20 million to obtain a credit rating from a recognised agency by 1 March 2010. That is currently the law, regardless of the deposit guarantee scheme. The deposit guarantee scheme extension will simply pick up the credit ratings that institutions already have. If they have a minimum of a BB rating, they will be eligible for the scheme. If they cannot get a credit rating by March 2010, then that is a matter they will have to deal with with the Reserve Bank, regardless of the Government guarantee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fedcaa1cf7fa486a8547d9b56d2fc0d0\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How is the extended scheme fairer to participants and taxpayers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2b63216a28445829bc822ce748cd660\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The original scheme was put in place under duress at the beginning of the financial crisis. We have had the opportunity to refine the scheme when it is extended, by introducing a new pricing system based on the institutions\u2019 risk profiles. It will be fairer to participants, because it is designed to avoid a situation where low-risk institutions are essentially subsidising the activities of higher-risk institutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022493407a9fd62439c8a5471b781c06738\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with sharebroker Chris Lee that there will be \u201Cno chance of many of the little finance companies getting a BB credit rating in the next 12 months\u201D and with KPMG partner Godfrey Boyce that \u201CVery small financial institutions are going to struggle to achieve that credit rating.\u201D; if so, does he still feel he has struck the right balance by limiting their eligibility while giving the larger banks an opt-out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022236168c2a7f14588a01f851338c35aaa\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I explained earlier, already on the books there is a requirement for financial institutions to get a credit rating by 1 March. I understand that if they do not get a credit rating, then they will either be prosecuted or have to negotiate an exemption with the Reserve Bank if they have deposits of over $20 million. That is a requirement that this Parliament passed last year, independent of the deposit guarantee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022309f38c29a144ee3a018dc300a5c88bf\u0022\u003EDecision Making\u2014Consultation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022727c595d895d4b2b8290b9eb5072d258\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his claim that as Prime Minister he is committed to consulting with, and listening to, people prior to making decisions that impact on their lives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00228aa8bb43abc74361b6c00f5022fe3bc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228aa8bb43abc74361b6c00f5022fe3bc0\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf2bb8bdbbf14b0f9f1f04714173f15f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister understand why people like Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua spokesperson Ngarimu Blair has described his consultation as a masquerade, and the New Zealand Herald has accused the Prime Minister of ignoring due parliamentary process, when the Government arrogantly goes ahead and makes announcements as to its decisions when the people\u2019s submissions to that select committee have not yet been considered and deliberated upon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8fb2adbccac4e5cafb30c87cca38e03\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229583f1b42b474f8296beb9abb43b3e27\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: There is no hope for the Prime Minister. Would bodies like the Auckland Regional Council and the Kaipara District Council and the Rodney District Council today be expressing concerns about \u201Cmajor and secret changes\u201D to the legislation, and \u201Cworst possible scenarios\u201D if the consultation process had been adequate and if there were trust in the Government\u2019s good faith in this matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7f3e6b0b53245fbafd0984fdead7226\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has gone through the select committee process on the matter. We are working through the decisions on boundaries, which were part of that select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223225f79f529348b3ab87899d43b18641\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Prime Minister claim to be committed to consultation and to be listening to people on the Auckland City reform bill when, firstly, his announcements after the royal commission reported were made without any process of consultation; secondly, the legislation introduced was rammed through under urgency without any select committee process; and, thirdly, now with this so-called showcase of consultation, without referring to those submissions he has made decisions that even his Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs described today as a sham?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227afbd2d1e30941378513d5164bfff18c\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Leader of the Opposition gets consultation confused with agreement. Just because some people advocate a position in a select committee does not mean the Government has to agree with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226104f8a6b0234a0c9a8a88f339cec8d3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: On another matter, while calling on the Labour Party to support the Government\u2019s decision to send SAS troops to Afghanistan, why did he not, on any occasion, make any effort to consult with Labour or any Opposition party on the reasons why he made that decision, if he expected our support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5324ceef07f4f6da3cc947bb55e031e\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It was my opinion that the Opposition had already made up its mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022405725248c4f4ff1bafaae5b50d186be\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: That is a bit rich! Why, as Prime Minister, did he not consult with any Opposition parties either before or after making the decision to cut out pre-funding of New Zealand superannuation, thus ending a period of consensus between political parties on superannuation that gave elderly people certainty in making plans for their retirement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b08e1852fc274b8b91423ff335671fa3\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Two things: firstly, because we exercised the provisions that already existed in the law that the previous Labour Government passed; secondly, unlike the Leader of the Opposition, I do not currently live on Mars and presume that the country is not going through an economic recession in which some changes might be necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9f5f0816fd44915ab83412b7fd39d34\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister prepared to listen to the 87 percent of Kiwis who voted No in the referendum, and support my member\u2019s bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276b3047021884237a7b474b9b5bbff56\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, we are listening to the 87 percent of people, and that is why we are in a position\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d584fa5ee83404ebb2971ad7df8594b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: To issue guidelines and set up a committee!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a36e522a96ab4eba812c8db804d99fb7\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: You can be on it; it would give you something to do because you have not got much else to do!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234e9a70b1fdf4300b784ad6c7c5372bc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker is not going to be on the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c3b3f8d99045aa93caf56176b9d444\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure they will let you out of primary school early to do that. Anyway\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220df539e8599c4ea0a8bb111f410dfba1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker is on his feet. There will be silence. Could the honourable member be a little more courteous. I might advise the Prime Minister that the Speaker left primary school quite a while ago, sadly, with advancing years. He must not refer to the Speaker in answering the questions. I think we have heard enough of that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dc2279645f14859896944a1095b2b33\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We have not begun to hear the answer yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a2e7553e2254c93b2e3166dc3e6e2e7\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, the Government is listening to the 87 percent of New Zealanders. The way that we are doing that is that we asked both Child, Youth and Family and the police to look at the process that we are working through. In direct answer to the member\u2019s question about whether National will be supporting the bill through to select committee, I say that is a decision I will be announcing at about 4 o\u2019clock this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c465afe16254d93990e8f94f8619200\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister now commit to working constructively with Opposition parties in order to ensure that a credible emissions trading scheme is developed to protect our trade opportunities, to allow us to meet international obligations, and to ensure that we can give the forestry industry certainty to start planting trees and dealing with the problems surrounding climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a10b18900d874a8a9d54bfbca90a5771\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Unless I am missing something, the Government has been working constructively with the Opposition. It is true that the Leader of the Opposition has written a letter to me expressing come concerns about the direction in which the emissions trading scheme negotiations are going. Like all letters I get from the Leader of the Opposition, as expected, it was delivered to the media at the same time as it was delivered to me. It would be a little more useful, if the Leader of the Opposition wanted to have a constructive relationship with me, if he could learn to deal with me as a grown-up and not through the media.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f54bb3389ad34d29acbafa6e262c7522\u0022\u003EHon Heather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with the following statement, made by John Key in April 2007, which is backed by 87 percent of New Zealanders: \u201C\u2026 if the reality is that no one is ever going to be prosecuted for lightly smacking their child, then don\u2019t make it illegal. Don\u2019t make it a crime. It\u2019s poor law-making to write a very strict law and then trust the police and the courts not to enforce it strongly\u201D; if not, what has changed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b917752c96453ea900f8f260472b62\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, very simply, what has changed is that an amendment was put up. The amendment basically ensured, I believe, that the police had quite clear guidelines in the way the law would be administered, and at this point we have to say that the evidence strongly supports that the law is being administered the way the amendment was designed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227d2ad15f1cf4b1fac0d6b3f1fa82a9f\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. Does the Prime Minister stand by his speech from the throne when he promised to see M\u0101ori standing strong, economically independent, and fulfilling the complete promise of their potential, and how does he reconcile Cabinet\u2019s recent failure to address the significant under-representation of M\u0101ori within local government with that earlier promise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274e6c9d482fa4854b04a61af1be07595\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do stand by that statement. It has been my view that an advisory participation committee is the best way of representing mana whenua. I draw the member\u2019s attention to a huge number of gains that have been made in the very short time that National has been working with the M\u0101ori Party. Those gains have included a review of the foreshore and seabed legislation, an accelerated process of Treaty settlements, and substantial work being undertaken around Wh\u0101nau Ora. They have included the policy that I announced this afternoon, which will see thousands and thousands of young M\u0101ori given the opportunity to participate in holiday programmes, and the like. Although I can fully understand the frustration of the M\u0101ori Party when it comes to the Auckland seats, what I do know is that we have achieved more in 9 months than Labour achieved in 9 long years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279907c4bbf6649508d14097e1081233d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00227215f2af9a074ed298b28454c40e2e3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227215f2af9a074ed298b28454c40e2e3a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call question No. 3, Kevin Hague. [Interruption] I have called Kevin Hague. [Interruption] I say to the Labour front bench\u2014because no one else was interjecting then\u2014that I have called Kevin Hague and they should show him some courtesy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b1526f2872384716af5f9df3f484085d\u0022\u003EHealthy Eating Projects\u2014Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022728b2289d58d408c9d369350aad1e251\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his statement in the House last week that \u201CThe Government has not slashed the budget for healthy eating projects.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00225cf388f7898343c3989a81c29231c9fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cf388f7898343c3989a81c29231c9fc\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E The member\u2019s quote is selective. What I said was \u201CThe Government has not slashed the budget for healthy eating projects. What the Government has done is sought more balance in the approach between physical activity and nutrition.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022173248c68d1048aeb731a4b44bb81a8e\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that ordinary Kiwis might think the $31.6 million cut to the Healthy Eating - Healthy Action fund was a slashing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e18cd0a560f54aeeb23dfbd7cb45084e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am completely unaware of a $31.6 million reduction in the healthy eating fund, and I invite the member to table the information he has that suggests that there has been such a reduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022054ed38a5a01433890b96539af12b125\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: What new initiatives has the Government recently announced to help address unhealthy weight or obesity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f0d566e7e634f6caba58294b212b851\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister recently launched the KiwiSport initiative, which will provide $20 million a year to schools and regional sports trusts to have more opportunities for sports and other physical activity. This will certainly provide more balance to the message that New Zealanders need good nutrition and physical exercise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284ef9f4774124e508291daa0f9e6fa70\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that ordinary Kiwis might think the $24 million cut from the \u201CGet Checked\u201D Diabetes Aotearoa programme was a slashing, the $1.2 million cut from the Diabetes New Zealand obesity programme was a slashing, and the $3 million cut from men\u2019s health initiatives constituted a slashing, or does he think Kiwis might prefer to use a \u201Cchainsaw massacre\u201D metaphor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9b740fc874e4be7a7c7702e7bb54dab\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member needs to realise that he should see this matter within the context of the fact that the Government is moving resources around the health sector. We inherited $160 million of unfunded services from the previous Government, and we are seeking to move resources within Vote Health to meet those demands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad601983e1374b2b8d107bbcfd15240a\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: What reports did he receive providing evidence that the programmes were not working, and will he table them in the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c127115d8b54c2485b31a0ff7a240a8\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: There were a number of situations where those various expenditures were reviewed. The Government must make it very clear that we have moved resources within the health sector in order to meet new areas of spending and requirement. This Government has put an extra $750 million into the health sector this year. Half of all new spending is in Vote Health, and New Zealanders are very pleased with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee5b44410eb742b3bb54d6d5869e4fb3\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the case that his decision to take the axe to the programmes was driven purely by ideology, or was it driven by the fact that the benefits of the programmes, in terms of reducing health-care need, will not be felt until the future, when he is most unlikely still to be Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200fc07e99d944dd2b7f39cc8ba78f175\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The member may not realise that we are in the worst recession since the 1930s and resources need to be moved. But I am interested that that member\u2019s party has not criticised the party opposite for cutting $24 million from public health programmes, cutting $17.5 million from primary health organisations, and cutting another $20 million from the programme to immunise against the human papilloma virus, and other immunisations. Let us see the member be fair in his criticism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f4dda66037b42bcb8318eacda6dbbcb\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document entitled \u201CBudget 2009 and line by line review of Vote Health\u201D, the author of which is the Hon Tony Ryall, which sets out the adjustments in funding that I have referred to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d387e12b1874c3388865bde8803cc84\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d395cc4c7c94fc098b102e0aa482bf0\u0022\u003ERetail Deposit Guarantee Scheme\u2014Opting Out\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6b39ac71c404054a701c86d04202524\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Why is he allowing banks to opt out of the retail banking guarantee scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffddc29c724348ada451ffd5122307d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffddc29c724348ada451ffd5122307d1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Participation was voluntary under the current scheme, and it remains so under the extension I announced yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227054a9c07d4b4b97bcdc1831768b0700\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: What are the consequences for the average level of risk borne by the taxpayer if major banks opt out, but small and less creditworthy finance companies stay in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b177a23f185e47abafa06c4fc69c1dff\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The consequences for the taxpayer are that the more institutions they guarantee, the more risk there is. At the moment the contingent liability is around $120 billion, and a big part of that is in bank deposits. Banks have operated in New Zealand for around 150 years without Government guarantees, and it is possible that they will be able to do so in the future. As I said before, participation was voluntary in the current scheme, and it will remain so in the future scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022655f06792bd048d9a4c503c3f97f5017\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I submit that the Minister has not addressed the question. The question was very specific and asked what the consequences would be for the average level of risk. He attempted first to talk about the total level of risk, which was irrelevant, and then talked about the voluntary nature of the scheme, which was also irrelevant. He has not addressed the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227c0ae79a5c14970af11e5866835d734\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member still has further supplementary questions available to him. It is a fine line to draw on the matter. I invite the member to pursue it through further supplementary questions. I will give him that chance right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d81a8c084514c57bca3ea2c16422ca0\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Have the same major banks further reduced short-term interest rates in line with recent cuts to the official cash rate; if not, what does the Minister propose to do about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ef28d8fa4064101ac8f121800fd7485\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That issue has been discussed extensively in the House, and I maintain the same position as previously. If bank customers do not like the margin that the banks are charging on floating rates, then they can opt for the 6-month rate for mortgages, which happens to be lower. The Government\u2019s priority is, and has always been, that banks should keep lending, because when they stop lending, people lose jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245bfdfbbc32448ffb7fa281451f8f52d\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Is the wholesale guarantee scheme altered by yesterday\u2019s announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282a51b31c54e46879fce334f5e3275be\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, the wholesale guarantee is not affected by yesterday\u2019s announcement. The two schemes are largely independent. Under the wholesale scheme, bank issuers are charged a fee of between 70 and 200 basis points, which is considerably more than is charged for the retail scheme. There are recent indications in the market that banks will be able to borrow money without the Government guarantee, as a number of their parent Australian banks are doing now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022434d2953afff40d3acd5c90ee340a705\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Having given the banks a free pass on the retail guarantee scheme and also on the interest rate pass-through issue, when will the Minister start to stand up for the interests of hard-pressed Kiwi businesses and households, or will he continue to just roll over in the face of pressure from the big end of town?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bff6080410048acaf6bb1451070722e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a pretty silly question. The banks do not get a free pass. If they want to have the guarantee, they will pay for it. The comments they have made on how much they have to pay for it indicates that they do not like it. If they do not have the guarantee, then they do not pay for it. That seems an entirely logical position. It would be pretty odd if we imposed the guarantee on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c98a6e9355a41beb6241df29ba73b75\u0022\u003EYouth, Support\u2014Fresh Start and Break Away\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228749a73bdf7441ac879e22ce44cb2e8e\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What is the Government doing to support young people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1ffcf5142564f1cb06bb7e161b39bee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1ffcf5142564f1cb06bb7e161b39bee\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Today we announced our Fresh Start programme for youth offenders, and our school holidays Break Away programme for young people. These two programmes together will support New Zealanders aged between 11 and 17 years with both preventive programmes and programmes to help them when they are in trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c9744da4cdb4918b45c027180efc283\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister give more detail on what activities will be offered in the school holiday Break Away programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022232a66e7d5ab4dea94f7c0b3b9289a91\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The Break Away package will provide activities and programmes for young people who normally do not have access to such activities. In excess of 30,000 young people will benefit from the package, through holiday programmes for 11 to 17-year-olds whose families cannot afford holidays; the Prime Minister\u2019s Youth Programme, which will reward 100 young people who have made positive life changes; and, a personal favourite of mine, residential respite camps, which will give 500 places to children and young people who are cared for by foster parents or by grandparents raising grandchildren, to give the parents a break. Those camps will be run by children\u2019s health camps to start with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9492d9a0bb6470884ea8028fea81d2b\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister trialling the first military-style activity camps as early as next month, well before the public and the select committee have the opportunity to report back on her youth justice proposals; is this yet another example of a Government that refuses to listen to submitters, especially when the vast majority of them are opposed to its ideas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022573d27ffb51541548814c2c2c2f82baf\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: These young people are ticking time bombs that are about to go off. They deserve our attention. They deserve our putting everything we can behind them to try to turn their lives round. Quite frankly, all that happened under the previous Government was that they ended up in adult prisons really quickly and really easily. We are going to do something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252d05526cdd84b829b5ebc8ec9f2fed0\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister give the House more details on the Fresh Start programme for young offenders? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022996d1bb882104085942b1abade8bb7b9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I know that members opposite do not like to hear about the action that is going on under this Government, and the difference that we are making, but Fresh Start will target New Zealand\u2019s most serious youth offenders. It also has a focus on turning round the lives of young people before they get into the youth justice system. We are bolstering the court orders available to judges, and investing more in supervision programmes. We are combining those measures with police and community-based diversion, mentoring, and drug and alcohol programmes, amongst many other programmes. This is a $59 million investment, and it means that nearly 3,000 Fresh Start places will be available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293714ba8c9df48eda0a92537fd8336a4\u0022\u003ETelecom New Zealand\u2014Employment Contract Advice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aef6f6f7c8984bc082a861866a662258\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: Has she or any Department of Labour official analysed the contract being offered to workers currently employed on behalf of Telecom; if so, what advice has been given to those workers or their representatives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u00227dd8295cb80a426da3927577c655a989\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227dd8295cb80a426da3927577c655a989\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Labour: No. Neither the Minister nor the Department of Labour gets involved in contractual disputes between private sector companies and their workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7234545ac414e7580d11acb8ce4f30f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister or her officials read the emails received in her office on this subject over the last month?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b972e15a7b654ad6a94100e11ee132ae\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I am not in possession of that information myself, but it would be extraordinary if a Minister did not read emails. I am sure that she would have read the emails, or her staff would have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf1d2509726c4a45be5399d267fc7255\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with her colleague John Carter that the contracts are \u201Ca crock\u201D and workers should not sign them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3f1c891863a4c46a2c5d60f3849b392\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, Mr Carter is acting on behalf of his constituents in his capacity as the member of Parliament for Northland. He is well known for representing their concerns, and that is precisely why he has such a large majority and continues to be voted in by his constituents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223381272534be4dfb8e92b4554a1a75f9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister then explain why the contracts are a crock in Northland but are supposedly acceptable around the rest of the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0bf3c783a704d1eaefcd1237cba7d46\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: If the member had listened more carefully, he would appreciate that the member for Northland was acting on behalf of his constituents. Like all members of Parliament, we hear the views of our constituents. That is the normal role and activity of a member of Parliament; it is not a matter of ministerial responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fae77e74bb524c68a7f6c40baee03a24\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister refusing to meet with the National Distribution Union executive this week because, according to the Minister\u2019s office, the Telecom workers who belong to the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union, another union, are on strike; and will she be applying the same principle by, for example, refusing to meet with any business representatives this week because Telecom is involved in an industrial dispute?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226562a40eaed04dfc8c17762b8973b8ce\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that the Minister was unable to meet the National Distribution Union because of a clash of commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235f62ceb39fa42a89bdcb92b0582f66c\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that there is an inherent issue of employment fairness at stake when the chief executive of Telecom gets $5 million, or more, while the Telecom lines engineers are facing redundancy with no compensation; and will she be considering any measures to help to rectify this awful situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee401cb21a1d401f965acc38fe38697d\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I would remind that member that these issues are all resolved under the Employment Relations Act, which was passed in the year 2000 by the then Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aa2bdf625494701884a733329494533\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a statement from the National Distribution Union saying it was advised by the Minister\u2019s office that the risks are too great for her to come to the meeting, and she cannot meet with the union because Telecom workers are on strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b601f18da61479d8ec466f404b2ca83\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263330265fab345e7a9d275778a06768e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s response to my second supplementary question, is he prepared to deny in this House that the contract being offered to workers formerly employed on behalf of Telecom is a crock?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b8737c2a9f44e3be81cae2f8aff0a7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I ask the Minister to respond to that, I say the Minister is not actually responsible for an employment contract that is being offered by a private company like Telecom. Although I did permit the Minister to give his opinion on the comment made by his ministerial colleague, once we get too far down the track on matters that are properly private matters of the company, it becomes a bit difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4d49fe0b2834d43944cf074756a693d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a relatively simple one. This is a matter that has been referred on a number of occasions to the responsible Minister\u2019s office. It is something that I am sure the Minister has looked at. She may want to say that she does not want to comment on it, but I think the matter is properly before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e9ee48c9d294478a4bca386a5ea2a9e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the member. I invite the Hon Dr Wayne Mapp to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022614002194da94d71a27d786d497ddfb5\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: As is well known, Ministers do not get involved in private disputes between private companies and their employees. That is exactly how the Employment Relations Act is supposed to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002265e89ba7b260401ab45c74af96bce7df\u0022\u003EAuckland, Transport Planning and Delivery\u2014Auckland Transport Agency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2eace2e7e4c49b49b93239f6dd2e000\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What steps is the Government taking to improve Auckland transport planning and delivery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00220f461f1858db42a5b8f6d70b93d24662\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f461f1858db42a5b8f6d70b93d24662\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday I confirmed, as part of the Auckland governance reforms, the establishment of a new Auckland Transport Agency to focus on delivering transport projects and services across Auckland. The single Auckland Transport Agency will replace the nine separate entities that currently govern Auckland transport, and will be responsible for all local authority transport delivery functions in Auckland, including local roads and public transport. The new agency will be responsible for an annual budget in excess of $1 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293e394df80fe4e52af402b1797d1703b\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: How will the new Auckland Transport Agency improve transport for the people of Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b679f78b142a4fe5a0af7c999d8da19a\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Rolling the multiple current entities into one transport agency will provide the focus and continuity of decision making required to deliver a transport network that supports Auckland\u2019s growth and economic success into the future. The Auckland Transport Agency and the new Auckland Council will work closely on urban and transport planning, meaning that they will identify areas of population growth in the city and design improvements to transport infrastructure to support those growth areas in an integrated way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022604cfe314c8443e89f9bd79353f2cb5f\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: How will the new Auckland Transport Agency be structured?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292a3726eb78e4b7ebfc5871ecc1c5c26\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: It will be structured as a quality delivery agency, to be overseen by the new Auckland Council. The Auckland Council will set the strategic direction, appoint the board\u2014which will include up to two councillors\u2014provide planning and guidance, and determine the levels of regionally sourced funding. The new agency will undertake the sequencing of projects, tendering, and the procurement of operational decisions. It will work closely with, and be partly modelled on, the New Zealand Transport Agency, which operates at a national level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293c62d419dff42d190dd444e16caa77c\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Why on earth do we need a new agency in Auckland, given that the Minister is so brilliant that the last plan for Auckland, which would have delivered rail-track electrification, electric railcars and rolling stock, integrated ticketing, and the very important Penlink road, was disregarded by the Minister, even though all the projects had been costed and funded? Now, thanks to him, all those projects are delayed. That is his brilliance at work!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f156e61af20468eaacfbfcb5d6a9270\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: If the member looks, he will find that all those projects are going ahead. It is, of course, possible and, indeed, perhaps necessary for a Government to do more than one thing at once, and that includes developing the projects and organising the governance. The important thing for the member to understand is that, going forward, we need to have a strong, integrated process between the council and transport in Auckland. It is not enough for local body people in Auckland simply to announce they want a project here and a project there, without any consideration of the overall plan to develop the big city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0d5edc80bf941a8aafaf392cbe4ad93\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a389a71f0af14e88b4d3f1957d922c72\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I say to members on both front benches that I have called Jeanette Fitzsimons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ea39e519f02434ab217a6a7e9ac0557\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Are there any Auckland motorway projects that he has announced must keep within their initial budget allocation, even if that means they cannot be completed; if not, why has he imposed that condition on Auckland\u2019s rail electrification and the railcars to run on it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022def4fd624f8c421b90a1f071d28d43e7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely we expect motorway projects in Auckland to come in within budget. In fact, we have taken the step of halving the amount to be spent on the Waterview Connection, to ensure value for money. That goes for all transport projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223135e50a18174ca884dd35a4df225387\u0022\u003EAuckland, Local Government Reform\u2014Northern Boundary of Super-city\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220703caad5fc941a4a95d1d20ed33b390\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that \u201Cfor all intents and purposes\u201D the decision on the northern boundary of the super-city has been made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022c146b59e7b984c8dbaf3699833e9e611\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c146b59e7b984c8dbaf3699833e9e611\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E It is my observation that the Prime Minister is invariably right, although sometimes not as centre-right as I myself would prefer. Cabinet has decided the governance position on the northern boundary of Auckland, but the final decision on the northern boundary will be made by the House when it considers the Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218e129a4f44d441096b6b846cf498b4a\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: What other issues have been decided by Cabinet in advance of the select committee recommendations, given that M\u0101ori representation and the boundaries have been predetermined?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229afa995263ac4311bd491ba1ceaaf05f\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Let me inform the member that it is a standard part of the legislative process that when a department is preparing its report for a select committee, it ensures that its departmental report reflects the Government\u2019s position. Cabinet is the forum where the Government confirms or decides its position. I am sure that the select committee, which the member is a part of, will consider the departmental advice along with all other submissions that have been put to it, and in the end the committee will decide on the form of the bill to be reported back to the House. That is the process that the Government and the House will follow, and I look forward to the member studying it and getting the hang of it eventually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7fa6c7729e34908bb840c4322e4bc73\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to the mayors of Kaipara and Rodney and the Auckland Regional Council chairman, all of whom are opposed to Cabinet\u2019s decision to override the select committee and the Local Government Commission and set the northern boundary itself?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022341a7845449a448ca6bc1251a7528426\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: It would be helpful if the member would listen to the answers he seeks. It is the practice for departmental reports to reflect the Government\u2019s position. Rodney and Kaipara people along with other Aucklanders have had the opportunity to make submissions to the Auckland Governance Legislation Committee about all aspects of the legislation. I have been informed that a number of submissions on the northern boundary were received and those submissions have been carefully considered by the select committee, along with all the other submissions. I am also aware that members of the committee have been listening to the people, and indeed I have had very good reports from the people of Kaipara and Rodney that the local member John Carter is doing a great job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a983a89612c948dfb3b8a5e7d07fd739\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with former royal commissioner David Shand that the Cabinet decision on the northern boundary will lead to substantial coastal development, and who does he believe stands to benefit from turning our northern beaches into a mini - Surfers Paradise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022252dc94b9fb447fbae69175ab290e551\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd2759e166014b919fef3801d2b8d9ba\u0022\u003EFinance Companies\u2014Oversight Changes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f342827c9b4e49e3bd2609b0ac54f358\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce: What changes is the Government proposing to the oversight of finance companies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff33444f1566468a9cf460fcdc213e5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff33444f1566468a9cf460fcdc213e5e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Commerce):\u003C/span\u003E This morning I announced a number of changes to improve the regulatory oversight of finance companies. One of those changes will be to require debt issuers, including finance companies that propose to go into moratoria in order to avoid receivership, to produce clear and concise investment statements that disclose the details and merits of a moratorium proposal. They will also need to disclose the basis on which the relevant directors and trustees are recommending the proposal, and any other relevant information. The aim is to ensure that investors are provided with information in a way that is transparent and easy to understand, to enable them to make the appropriate decisions for their individual circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022904d84e4df9b4a9d9c85423fea351111\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Are there any plans to improve the oversight of corporate trustees and their relationship with finance companies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223303ec463c734cb882c64e44124c7aaf\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The collapse of a large number of finance companies in recent years has raised some fundamental issues around the role of corporate trustees, and in particular the competence and accountability of some of those trustees. Today I announced a package of measures designed to improve the quality of trustees\u2019 supervision of issuers, including a licensing regime to be overseen by the Securities Commission. Trustees will be required to meet a series of stringent criteria, such as appropriate infrastructure, monitoring systems, processes, and financial strength. The commission will also have an ongoing role in monitoring trustees, and that role will include the power to prosecute trustees, direct trustees to take action to protect investors, strengthen trust deeds, and require mandatory reporting to the commission when issuers may be nearing default. I can advise the House that I hope to bring legislation on this issue to the House by the end of the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e92e31a5d4a64d5fafd5a21d2e0a5788\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Will the proposed moratorium regulations require investors to be given an honest assessment of both the benefits and the risks of the moratorium proposal as against receivership; if so, who will provide this information in light of the experience of certain companies overplaying the former to the personal benefit of directors, and underplaying the latter to the detriment of investors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250efa40b5e6e4b6481ccc605908ce33e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: That is the intention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298cd6f915799484ab897060cef34cd51\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: What other initiatives are being undertaken to improve oversight of the financial sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022436536aa96844ba79d320ec49cecb2e4\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is also undertaking a review of the Securities Act. The Act is now over 30 years old. The review will focus on ensuring, firstly, that investors receive relevant and timely information; secondly, that the rules around managed funds are clear and consistent; thirdly, that the regulatory bodies have the right roles, the right functions, and the right powers to enforce securities law and monitor issuers; and, fourthly, that the scope and objectives of securities law are clearly stated. I intend to release a discussion document that canvasses these issues by the end of the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022519297ff65f243118a1920a2a92b6bae\u0022\u003EBiosecurity\u2014Border Controls\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ee9067303e7487eb3af88146bf614e4\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Biosecurity: Has he received any reports on the increasing risk to the biosecurity of New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a33bb9638a46457a99a310091598bc9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a33bb9638a46457a99a310091598bc9e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister for Biosecurity):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e91f701a4f75475bb81e71c4e732725d\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to the 2006 AgResearch report that identified that 77 percent of shoes inspected at the border contained fungi, bacteria, and plant material, and how will he ensure proper biosecurity protection for New Zealand after the Prime Minister has just announced that the vast majority of travellers from Australia will not be inspected at all, just to save an estimated 8 minutes in processing time when those travellers enter New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272db74faa41841ae9cf9f10bb0909ec9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister has not announced that the vast majority of people will not be screened at the border. This change is about delivering the most effective biosecurity that we can at the border, and it would be irresponsible not to actively examine the system we have to see whether we can do it better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf5d5267374244389af0464942944d7a\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: What steps has the Government recently taken to strengthen New Zealand\u2019s biosecurity system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c638df5a80ac491991193771c00c882d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Just last week the Government moved to double the instant biosecurity infringement fine. This toughening up on those who put our country at risk, combined with Biosecurity New Zealand\u2019s more targeted approach of focusing on travellers who pose the greatest risk, will significantly strengthen and enhance our biosecurity system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e94d5de9fe7046d98c9448680bb8016f\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister protect New Zealand from unwanted pests and diseases, when the report from his ministry investigated and identified 106 living species in storage containers of palm kernel destined for New Zealand farms; and considering his view that \u201Cthere is no evidence to suggest that the current requirements have failed\u201D, in what circumstances will he start showing some concern, and will he review the importation of palm kernel into this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225ca6498bbc04a8daab8e061e13c53f7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Over recent days I have seen a number of reports around palm kernel and the risk it poses to biosecurity in New Zealand. Most of them are totally inaccurate. All shipments of palm kernel are fumigated before they arrive in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226076facb9b3d4f97b30e6bc08dfe5a68\u0022\u003EEconomic Stimulus Package\u2014State Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b1c28b0018d435d95c4dcd99563f232\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What progress is being made on the State housing economic stimulus package announced earlier this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022076e6a6f6a2a48e7a805d598094252b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022076e6a6f6a2a48e7a805d598094252b5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Good progress is being made: $20 million has been committed to the new build part of the package. That was for the delivery of 87 new homes, making up to 1,550 new State houses that are being added to the stock over 4 years. Although a handful of properties are yet to be finished due to the usual winter weather conditions, these houses should be finished within the next few weeks. This is 18 more houses over and above what we first announced, because of the new efficiencies in the Housing New Zealand Corporation under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8b2d6299d7a457b83af177828e5e296\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What other good news can the Minister tell us about this project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdde1d45b1944ff4968c67a3011f4da5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am delighted with that question, because under the Healthy Housing component $3 million worth of work has been done on over 200 properties. Also, the corporation has finished, or is completing upgrades on, over 1,600 other State houses. But members should wait; there is more. On average, over 1,000 people each month have been employed since March, and we are now working on the next phase, in which we will upgrade the disgraceful and derelict housing stock that we inherited when we first came into Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226db6437572514c9db220b4b9e0134ec2\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: How can anyone take the Minister seriously when he gets up and brags about the number of State houses he is building, given that he has personally stopped the building of 500 State houses in Hobsonville because the Prime Minister does not like them; and how many State houses could be built or renovated for the $1.2 million that is being spent by the Housing New Zealand Corporation every year in Hobsonville in order to be the master developer for what is essentially now a private development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022829118d7c55947fc908978a744b27dbd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think I have previously outlined to the House that the previous Government started the process of Housing New Zealand Corporation being involved in Hobsonville in 2002. There were three elections between that time and now, when no houses were built, no consents were issued, there were no earthworks, and the promise of the 500 houses never came to fruition in 7 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280cc6eb0db314f769fbb51482b1d1f56\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: How does he think his housing stimulus package compares with the Australian Government\u2019s nearly $8 billion social housing stimulus package, which is saving 15,000 jobs, and does he believe that this has had anything to do with the Australian unemployment rate now holding steady, while New Zealand\u2019s continues to rise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a66a5e6824db4d14818327efb575b1a8\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Australian housing package and John Key\u2019s National Government package are stimulating the economies of both countries, which is a lot more than what the hot air stimulated under the previous Government did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221031a8cf956c4986b2c1459841cfff3f\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Sensitive Claims and Sexual Abuse Victims\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243af148940974e66a8ee3478440b6161\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: Has ACC abandoned all changes relevant to sexual abuse victims since question time yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002223c135145f7f40b8b78f77de97f4fa6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223c135145f7f40b8b78f77de97f4fa6f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E No. The Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) is consulting providers on the clinical guidelines for sensitive claims. No final decisions have yet been made. I assure the member that the needs of sexual abuse survivors will be paramount. Decisions on the clinical guidelines will be made by clinicians, not by politicians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a08fe1365d842f484b9c0c7f43e0c6d\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s assurance in the Chamber yesterday that the proposals were in the best interests of victims, followed by ACC\u2019s back-down a few hours later because the proposals would not work, can the Minister guarantee victims of sexual abuse that they will not be subjected to more cost-cutting strategies at their expense?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cc94fff80d9466ca90d637758f2b3fd\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I can assure the member opposite that in dealing with sensitive claims what is paramount, in respect of ACC\u2019s policy, is ensuring the very best quality of service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205518ea14e8f4953bb132b165af33a7d\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister provide any evidence of representations or submissions made by the Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs to the Minister for ACC on behalf of victims of sexual abuse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022090837e191084498836ab8af663e06cb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, and I will tell the member why. We on this side of the House believe that clinical decisions should be made by clinicians, not by politicians. I am disappointed that members opposite think we want ACC\u2019s clinical decisions to be made on a political whim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a512312837e4145a965b876fe645b3a\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What was the origin of the new clinical guidelines, and when did the process being?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210f23efa3d6a49348762231ca428235c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am surprised that Labour members are today criticising the clinical guidelines. In June 2008 the official launch of the guidelines was praised by none other than the Hon Steve Maharey. The origins of the guidelines go back to 2004, when concerns were raised about the effectiveness of sexual abuse counselling. That resulted in an $800,000 comprehensive research programme, which led to new guidelines being produced last year. Those guidelines are now being consulted on for implementation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI seek leave to table a photo of the Hon Steve Maharey at the launch of the clinical guidelines, where he said what an important step forward\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff3bff4fce8544388f291572d99c1f79\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dda2316dd0504d599a66b6db79fe1e66\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229db409ba2dc44413adfd7efadf4f99b4\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002221451c6a21b34939af09bd81d3c40721\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221451c6a21b34939af09bd81d3c40721\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Kaihaut\u016B o te Whare. I hope members are listening very carefully to the people in Kaipara, because today they have been short-changed by the Government. The level of disdain for the Government now comes not only from the tangata whenua of T\u0101maki-makau-rau, but stretches from the Northern Wairoa right through to Tainui. There has been erosion and destruction of faith and trust. Every opportunity was made available for John Key and Mr Hide to bring through in a gesture of goodwill something that would aid and advance race relations development in Aotearoa. But no, they sent Mr Hide out as a whistle dog fomenting racial discord, without realising that Mr Key, who loves to be popular all the time, had entered into a commitment with Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua and Tainui to do the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo it falls to this side of the House to do the right thing and to ensure that the new super-city and the governance model for the super-city are progressive and modern, and capture the essence of what Auckland is to be in the future\u2014not tired, old, leafy immigrants or ambassadors from the east who cast aspersions on Kelston Boys High School and look after their own kids in Auckland Grammar School. No. Tangata whenua and Pacific Islanders are all written out of the script. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EJohn Key went to Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua marae, listened to Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, and made a commitment on that marae and to Tuku Morgan, and now he welshes on the commitment and walks away from it. He blames Mr Hide, but Mr Hide enjoys this type of reputation. He wants to let people know that not only is he a buffoon\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022848044acf233421584baab828a2b4a72\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the other word?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dfdcba282a14da9859d3ce5a6f912dc\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not playing rugby and I am not punting. He also enjoys making a fool out of the M\u0101ori on that side of the House who, I can tell members now, will not be able to show up with any sincerity. They will not be able to show up with any mana to any M\u0101ori organisation, because they had the chance to come to this side of the House and make a statement of principle on how important democracy is not only in our parliamentary processes but also in a proper, trusted process for tangata whenua. Why do those members fear that? Georgina te Heuheu stood up to Don Brash, unlike the rest of them. They let her speak and take an independent position, and she crowed about how she enjoyed that entitlement as a consequence of being a member of that caucus. But that entitlement is absent today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe reason those members have lost their way is that they have sold out for short-term political gain to keep Mr Hide in place. Auckland City is turning into a mess. Assets are being readied for privatisation, boundaries are being moved in the dead of night, and M\u0101ori are being overlooked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d58a2b882d8d4c178b7a8f723c9290af\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cd7428b4e284557a77d6c9992ed8491\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: We hear from the back of the House evidence of necrosis of the mind in terms of those two M\u0101ori there. Rest assured, they will have to give an account as to why they have sold their own people out and deliberately misled the M\u0101ori Party. We feel aroha for the M\u0101ori Party, because its members are now realising, having joined into a pact with the National Party, that there is no way the pact will be delivered on, and they will have to give an account on the marae as to why they are prepared to prop up a Government that favours the rich, picks on the dispossessed, and marginalises M\u0101ori. The Government is held in place by the M\u0101ori Party. The M\u0101ori Party members will have to give their own account to the voters of T\u0101maki-makau-rau and the people, the tangata whenua, who today have been sold out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWhat are they going to tell the tangata whenua M\u0101ori of Auckland? Maybe they can have an advisory committee. Maybe they can come and give a p\u014D\u2019hiri, or maybe they can change some of the names, etc. Of course, the first name they will change is porohewa, which means bald head. We have seen two bald heads, Mr Henare and Mr Hide, reduce each other to a level quite unbecoming for this House. They are poor examples. One man ransacks parliamentary process, and one man will not own the words he uses as he tells the truth about how he really feels about Mr Hide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori population of Auckland has grown immensely. It is youthful; it trusted in what the Prime Minister said. The Prime Minister has misled them. The Prime Minister has not stood up for the Treaty of Waitangi; he has failed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb1a74d329554697884c57269bccd29d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb1a74d329554697884c57269bccd29d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Hon Chris Finlayson, I apologise to the Hon Shane Jones for the noise going on in the House. I was most unhappy with what was going on but I did not want to interrupt the flow of his speech, it being only a 5-minute speech. I say to Government Ministers who are holding discussions right now, including the Prime Minister, that if members want to have discussions during the debate, they will go out into the lobby to do so. The noise was totally unacceptable. Half a dozen loud discussions were going on, and it is just so discourteous to the House. I have no problem with interjections and interest being taken in the member\u2019s speech, but I do have a problem with a babble of discussions. It is longstanding practice that if members want to have discussions with each other, they go out into the lobby to do so. I apologise to the Hon Shane Jones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6efa7e583ce4d55a2eabaea19a69bb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6efa7e583ce4d55a2eabaea19a69bb6\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Jones was slow off the mark this afternoon, but he proved once again that empty vessels make the most noise. That is the same Mr Jones who said that he and the Labour Party did not support M\u0101ori seats for Auckland. But I do not want to waste my time on Mr Jones. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI want to say something about the Leader of the Opposition: Mr Goff is finished as Labour leader. He will never be Prime Minister, and he will never lead a Government. Let me read to the House from a general debate contribution made by a senior member of the Labour leadership team in 1989: \u201CLast week the Government caucus chose a leadership team for the 1990s \u2026 a team that is backed by \u2026 a united caucus .\u2026 The Labour Party and the Government caucus are united behind the new leadership team \u2026 The Cabinet, the Government caucus, and the Labour Party have been brought together in a manner that fills Government members with optimism.\u201D Those were the words of Annette King, speaking just a few months before Geoffrey Palmer was rolled as Labour leader. By my calculation, if her previous predictions are correct, then Mr Goff has about 2 months left. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EDespite this, Labour is presently engaging in some strange branding exercise, which is, quite frankly, embarrassing. Phil Goff may have been outfitted in a new camouflage jacket for Listener photo shoots, but the party has not changed. While Mr Goff has been throwing lambs over his shoulder, Helen Clark is busily text messaging MPs from the Big Apple for their general debate speeches. It is the so-called star-studded line-up of new recruits, but they are nothing more than Helen Clark\u2019s former employees. Mr Goff is supposed to be in charge. The same Labour Party comintern that gave us the Electoral Finance Act is still pulling the strings, even if it has decided to dress Phil Goff in new clothes like some social democratic Ken doll. His re-branding, which Clare Curran describes as \u201Ca real man\u201D, resembles only a left-wing women\u2019s collective view of what a real man is supposed to be. Labour will take any opportunity to make Phil Goff look like a man of the people, but he is no man of the people; he is interested only in his own career, and he will say or do anything to advance it. To paraphrase what someone once said about Richard Nixon, he is the kind of politician who would cut down a tree, then mount the stump and make a speech about conservation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThis is not a speech about conservation; it is a speech about contrasts. Labour may have been a really bad Government, but it is a shocking Opposition. While the National-led Government is busily implementing a high-quality legislative programme, Labour members have chosen to spend their time singing Viet Nam War protest songs on bus rides of doom while they drive through safe National seats. While I was working on an overdue reform of the Limitation Act, that tribune of the working class, that authentic representative of the proletariat, Charles Chauvel, was following behind the Labour bus in his convertible\u2014\u201CTake Me Home, Country Roads\u201D, indeed. While my colleague Simon Power was getting on with the long overdue reform of the defence of provocation, which Labour could have done if it had done something positive while in Government, Mr Goff was talking about repealing the Employment Relations Amendment Act 2008. While Chris Carter was coming to terms with not getting airpoints for travelling on the bus and with being ignored by his colleagues, Steven Joyce was putting the final touches on a new transport agency for Auckland. While Annette King constantly abuses Paula Bennett, that great and fearless Minister of the Crown has been working on her Fresh Start package for young offenders and that wonderful Break Away package for school holidays. And so it goes on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe current Labour Party leadership is useless, unprincipled, unpleasant, and uninspiring. Chris Trotter was correct when he wrote in 1994 that the likes of Mr Goff and Mrs King were past their use-by dates; regrettably, nothing has changed in the last 15 years. He said that in 1994, and nothing has changed in the last 15 years. The Labour members are totally unprincipled, and they are worse in Opposition than they ever were in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2ddbcc89cf840cab0b9dd16fa3fead9\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Nasty little man!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cc2688f07e14ea3970b5f7fa4222577\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I hope Mr Robertson enjoys that place, because he will be there for a long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u00226b605c78683d4e9e8ead961cd39c3777\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b605c78683d4e9e8ead961cd39c3777\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I start by saying that if we were playing a game of rugby, the old, outdated rules would come into effect. One can tell when a team is losing, because they forget to play the ball, and instead they play the man. That is exactly what that previous speech, from Christopher Finlayson, was about. My whanaunga from Ng\u0101ti Awa, Paul Quinn, knows exactly what I am talking about. Sadly, the Attorney-General, the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, forgot what the game was about. Maybe my whanaunga will take a call and highlight the issues that are really important today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI want to make a statement: the issue of representation for M\u0101ori in local government is a significant issue, and not just for M\u0101ori. It has been around for a long time, as evidenced by a notice in the Auckland Provincial Government Gazette on Saturday, 6 May 1867. J Williamson, the superintendent of the Auckland province, gave notice that he had appointed Paora T\u016Bhaere of Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua to give advice to him and the Executive Council on matters relating to M\u0101ori in the province of Auckland. It is a significant issue and an issue that will not go away. M\u0101ori will not let it go away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThe person who brought that statement to the House was the Hon Georgina te Heuheu, Associate Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs. If Government colleagues are not listening to her; if they are not listening to the honourable Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, Dr Pita Sharples; if they are not listening to M\u0101ori and the iwi of the Auckland province; and if they are not listening to New Zealand in general, then who are they listening to? Let us take a guess. I take it that they are listening to one person whose track record on M\u0101ori representation has been obvious in this House for a very, very long time, and that is the Minister of Local Government, Rodney Hide. In 2001 National allowed Georgina te Heuheu to cross the floor and vote in favour of the Bay of Plenty Regional Council (Maori Constituency Empowering) Bill. Donna Huata as well sought permission from her party, the ACT Party, to do the same, and both members did so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EWhat has changed since that time? Absolutely nothing has changed, which we will note from the statement by the chairman of Environment Bay of Plenty in terms of the quality of M\u0101ori representation on that council. Mr John Cronin made it very clear that the M\u0101ori members on the Bay of Plenty Regional Council give advice not only on issues relevant to M\u0101ori but on issues relevant across the council\u2019s responsibilities. Here we are, some 8 years later, debating an issue that we should not be debating. The fact is that New Zealanders, by and large, have accepted that M\u0101ori representation on local government is very important, that the voice of tangata whenua is very important, and that M\u0101ori who hold important assets at regional level should have a say at the top table. We do not see that happening in terms of this process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that the Auckland Governance Legislation Committee has yet to report back to the House on its findings as part of the process of hearing submissions, yet the Prime Minister has already announced that M\u0101ori representation on this very, very important body, the Auckland Council, is out of the question. There is not a sound from the other M\u0101ori members, apart from the Hon Tau Henare. There is not a sound from the M\u0101ori Party members, apart from the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs. Why is that? I send a challenge to my whanaunga on the Government benches to get up and make a statement about just where the M\u0101ori members stand on this issue. It is all right interjecting and heckling, and playing the player rather than the ball, but sooner or later, as my colleague the Hon Shane Jones said, there will come a time when those members will have to stand up before their communities and make a statement about their position. Are they pro M\u0101ori representation, or are they not? Are they just going to sit here and do whatever the Prime Minister tells them to? Are they going to sit here and do whatever the Minister of Local Government dictates? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EAs I said, there will come a time when they will have to front up, as all of us have fronted up over the years. Those members highlight the fact that the Labour M\u0101ori members did not cross the floor when voting on the Foreshore and Seabed Act, although anyone can do that. That is easy. What is hard is to stay here and hold one\u2019s ground to make a bad situation better. That is why people send members here: to be their voice in this House and to stand up for the issues they consider to be a high priority. That is exactly what Labour members have done over the years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002242e4574dc3c74775b08ab96fe9a51422\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242e4574dc3c74775b08ab96fe9a51422\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E What we did not hear that member, Mita Ririnui, talk about was the Labour leadership woes. There are big problems in the Labour caucus, and anyone in New Zealand needs only to turn on a television set and he or she can see Labour\u2019s problems in the regular polls coming through to people\u2019s lounges right across New Zealand. The most recent TV3 poll rated the Labour leadership of Phil Goff at only 6.5 percent in the preferred Prime Minister ratings. In 1999, when Phil Goff called the barbecue and 12 MPs turned up to roll Helen Clark, she was polling at 23 percent. Phil Goff currently is polling at 6.5 percent. Lo and behold, what has Labour decided to do? The Labour caucus has decided that this Labour weekend it will go across all of New Zealand and have big barbecue meetings. That is probably because the Labour caucus is instigating these to get ready to roll Phil Goff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat did TV3 do? It sought public opinion on who should roll Phil Goff. These are the people whom New Zealanders thought would be a better leader than Phil Goff. We have the Hon Annette King, who is polling at about 15 percent. We have similar poll ratings for the Hon David Cunliffe, at about 15 percent. We have heard this afternoon from the Hon Shane Jones\u2014another aspirant who is busy sharpening the knives with his M\u0101ori Labour caucus. He is sitting at around 7 percent in the polls. Lo and behold, we have two people who are not even in Parliament whom the public think would be better leaders than the Hon Phil Goff. Laila Harr\u00E9 is at about 7 percent, and the Labour Party president, Andrew Little, is at 4 percent. Wait for this! Twenty-one percent of New Zealanders in this poll did not support any of the people whose names I have read out. What is more, 23 percent do not even care about Labour. The other interesting thing is that Helen Clark, who is currently running the United Nations Development Programme in New York, polled at about 8 percent. The other interesting thing that the Labour Party is extremely worried about is its membership, which was about 50,000 in 2005. Currently its membership is below 10,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ELabour has huge issues. Not only are New Zealanders not listening to Labour but Labour\u2019s membership is leaving in droves. What did Labour members decide to do? They decided to get on a bus and reconnect with New Zealand. They came through my electorate, the wonderful electorate of \u014Ctaki, and thought they might be able to reclaim it. No one was listening to them there, apart from the cafe owner who was very pleased to take money from them when they had their lunch in the cafe in the main street of Levin. On TV I saw the Labour members sitting in the back of the bus, with David Shearer strumming on his guitar and leading the songs. But this is a Labour Party that is not focused. New Zealanders are not listening to Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat New Zealanders are listening to is the positiveness coming out of the new Government, and they are seeing the great job that the Hon John Key is doing as Prime Minister. Just today the Prime Minister announced, along with the Hon Paula Bennett, that $84.5 million will be going into youth initiatives. National will be getting tougher on youth offenders, and it will be focusing on a great initiative, which I think is wonderful, called Break Away to help schoolkids to be able to attend programmes in the school holidays. It will be focused into high deprivation areas of New Zealand\u2014indeed, I have some of those areas in my electorate\u2014because, as many people in this House will know, if youngsters do not have something to do during school holiday time, they roam up and down the main street of our towns and cause havoc. If we can get them into the programme that has been announced today, it will be a fantastic way to get them off the street. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe other important announcement today is about the 500 places in respite camps. These are for those being cared for by people such as foster parents, grandparents, and other people who are looking after kids, particularly in the 5 to 8 years age group. I know, as a young parent, that it is particularly difficult to look after kids at times. If we can give them an opportunity to go into health camps, in areas like mine, that will be fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u00228f13407cb44042dfbfbeb06305a67d46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f13407cb44042dfbfbeb06305a67d46\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call in this debate, and it has been a telling week, has it not? This week has been where the rubber hits the road. Despite all the photo opportunities and all the nice, hollow words we have heard from National members about supporting the M\u0101ori Party and M\u0101ori issues, when the rubber hits the road, what happens? They back off. It is the same old National Party that stood behind Don Brash, the \u014Crewa speech, and the \u201CIwi/Kiwi\u201D billboards. We really should not be too surprised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI will refer back to the Hansard of what has been said before in this House on this issue. The first quote is from the Hansard relating to the bill of my colleague Mita Ririnui, the Bay of Plenty Regional Council (Maori Constituency Empowering) Bill. This allowed the Bay of Plenty Regional Council to have M\u0101ori seats. Those seats are there now, and they work very, very well. The sky did not fall in. Racial segregation has not descended on the Bay of Plenty. But here is what Dr Wayne Mapp had to say about that legislation allowing for M\u0101ori seats in local government. He stated: \u201CIf we look at the lessons of other countries\u2014those countries that have divided their franchises on the basis of race\u2014we see that, almost universally, there is a sad picture.\u201D He went on to state: \u201CThe reality, and Mr Ririnui would try to deny it, is that this bill has served to divide the community that he comes from. This bill makes it harder for people to think of each other as equals,\u201D. Well, the reality is that that has not happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThen we had Tony Ryall\u2019s Local Electoral (Repeal of Race-Based Representation) Amendment Bill, where he stated, and this is very interesting: \u201CIf this bill passes,\u201D\u2014to repeal the M\u0101ori seats\u2014\u201Cit will repeal the provisions of the Local Government Act that allow there to be separatist race-based legislation,\u201D. He stated: \u201CThey are not necessary, and they are divisive \u2026 The National Party view, which we enunciated in our election policy \u2026 is that race-based representation is no longer needed in New Zealand, \u2026 We believe that it is divisive.\u201D That was from Tony Ryall. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI will also speak about the Local Government Act 2002, because there is some really good stuff in the debates on the Local Government Act, where we allowed councils to have M\u0101ori seats. We also provided for M\u0101ori consultation. Dr Nick Smith stated: \u201CThen we have the separatism provisions: the way in which we are to change a long-term, 160-year tradition in the way we elect local members, by introducing apartheid. I say to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Chris Carter, who proudly boasts that he protested against apartheid in South Africa\u2014but he is going to introduce it into New Zealand\u2014that he should get on his feet and defend that. It will divide New Zealand. What is separate representation if it is not apartheid?\u201D. That is what the Hon Dr Nick Smith said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThen Wayne Mapp stated: \u201Cthe foundation stone of democracy is the equality of citizens, whereby we have equal right of participation. Some people say that we should have separate legislative provisions; I say we should be able to learn from experience and not have provisions that advance inequality.\u201D [Interruption] Members opposite might want to listen, because they may come up on my list very, very soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EBill English stated: \u201C[The Local Government Act] creates two standards of citizenship:\u201D\u2014remember that phrase: two standards of citizenship\u2014\u201Cone where my relationship to my ancestral land, sea, air, \u2026 counts for nothing; but if a person has a brown skin, it is in the law.\u201D That is what Bill English had to say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI have to mention the quote from this member, because it is such a good one, even though he is not in Parliament now. It is from Brian Connell. Do members remember Brian Connell? He stated: \u201CAnyone who has sat in this Chamber and listened to Dover Samuels for any length of time will be forgiven for forming the opinion that getting M\u0101ori to speak up is easy, but getting some of them to shut up is the problem. This strange little clause guarantees the voice of M\u0101ori groups in the consultation process, and it seems like another of the Government\u2019s separatist agendas.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI ask whether any members are really surprised that we are standing here today with a National Government once again refusing to allow M\u0101ori representation on the Auckland Council. I ask M\u0101ori Party members when they will say that enough is enough. When will they say that it is not good enough to be rolled out for photo opportunities with the Prime Minister at every single opportunity, and then to be ignored on all the things that count? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWhat did the M\u0101ori Party get in the Budget? The Green Party, which is part of the Opposition, had a stand-up press conference with the Minister, it got a press release in the Budget pack, and it was lauded by Gerry Brownlee, and what did the M\u0101ori Party get? It is National\u2019s coalition partner! I tell National members that they should start treating the M\u0101ori Party with respect. Having a flag flying over the Auckland Harbour Bridge for one day does not make up for this kick in the teeth for M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002203e615e2abb046bcadc35e4f90c10e78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203e615e2abb046bcadc35e4f90c10e78\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E The member who just resumed her seat, Moana Mackey, is very good at showing righteous indignation and having a genuine, righteous, fierce debate. But let us face reality. The Labour Opposition is in disarray. It is in disarray. Labour members are clearly still smarting from the comprehensive rejection the New Zealand public handed out to them in November last year. We have only to look at their faces. Their faces tell the story of anger and self-entitlement; it is written all over them. Labour members cannot get past the fact that New Zealand did not want them. The public had Labour for 9 years. It took the New Zealand public nowhere. New Zealand said \u201CEnough\u201D and sent Labour packing, and the Opposition cannot get over it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EMembers opposite have spent the last 9 months flailing around, looking for answers, and now they are turning on each other. It is like watching flesh-eating bacteria as it turns in. Any illusion of cohesion is dissolving in front of us. The Leader of the Opposition, the Hon Phil Goff, sits at an astounding 6 percent\u20146 percent and dropping\u2014and we can only assume it is due to the constant stream of texts from New York. The texts from New York keep him going. That is where the leader gets his advice from. He says: \u201CWhat do I do now? Quick! Text Helen! She\u2019ll tell me. We know how to do it! Don\u2019t worry, Helen is on the end of the phone, and she\u2019ll tell me what to do. Never fear, Vodafone is there.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWhy is Phil Goff still there? When Helen Clark was at 23 percent, the party tried to roll him, and now the leader is at 6 percent, but he is still there. Why is that? I will tell members one thing we know. Annette King told us that \u201CCrown Prince David Cunliffe\u201D is not ready. He is just not ready. \u201CTake a pill, David Cunliffe. You\u2019re just not ready.\u201D And as Dover Samuels quite usefully points out, the rest of them are basically retreads. They have done their time. In 1994, even Chris Trotter\u2014that eminent left-wing spokesman\u2014was telling us that those members were past their use-by date. Yet still they are being wheeled out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ESo why is it that Labour members continue with this absurd illusion that they are behind Phil Goff when they know that they are not? Do members know why it is? It is because Helen Clark and Michael Cullen made them promise to support Phil Goff for 3 years. They said: \u201CSupport Phil for 3 years.\u201D It is a pact. We knew it. They have a pact to back Phil Goff, come hell or high water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285bd8e551d324ec084bdcc0f6e24e890\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is certainly enjoying the debate. I just wish members would cut me in on it, because I cannot hear a word the speaker is saying. I apologise to Amy Adams for interrupting her speech. I do not mind interjections, but, my goodness, I just cannot hear the speaker, and it is helpful if I can. So I ask members for just a wee bit more reason, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2ffa8f4a3124c67bb9b48d9821b5c24\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Frankly, it is not surprising that I am getting to members opposite. The truth hurts. They know it is the truth. They know that the only reason they are still backing Phil Goff in the job is that Helen Clark and Michael Cullen made them promise to do so. They said: \u201CGive him 3 years. Back him for 3 years, come hell or high water.\u201D So now they are wondering how long they can last. How long will that pact last? I can tell members that it is not looking good. The cracks are showing. The numbers are being worked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EDo members know what is happening? Labour members said: \u201CWe have been in the centre long enough. We don\u2019t actually live in the centre.\u201D The left-wing forces are gathering. They are going back to their socialist roots. The numbers are being done. The trade unionists are coming out. They are going back to their socialist roots. The pact will not last long, and if I was Phil Goff I would be worried. Despite the fact that the options are few and pitiful, when one is on 6 percent, pact or no pact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c285be2c1143487a95b94970119fecd7\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Parekura?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f78ce5873ea459db56b0008eb25332e\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Parekura Horomia could challenge, we never know. We have already had Shane Jones\u2019 bid. We know that Shane Jones wants to make a bid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House we are more interested in getting stuff done. Our leader has our support, which is more than the Labour Party can say. We are focused on the young people of New Zealand. We are focused on opportunities. We are focused on futures. We are providing solutions for our young. We are addressing youth employment and we are addressing youth offenders. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u00228c24dc011f0d4c259301473c361ab32c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c24dc011f0d4c259301473c361ab32c\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E From listening to the debate in the House over the last 2 days one would think that Parliament lives in a vacuum. On Friday we had the result of the referendum on smacking. On Friday night we were told that just on 1.5 million people had voted No in the referendum\u201487 percent\u2014but has anyone raised that issue in Parliament? Have any other parties raised this issue in Parliament? No, they have not. Only the ACT Party has raised this issue in Parliament. It was an overwhelming No vote of 87 percent. Fifty-six percent of people voted in the referendum. More people voted in that postal referendum than voted in the MMP referendum in 1993. The question was very simple: should a light smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand? The answer was an overwhelming no. As the Family First organisation pointed out, the percentage of people who voted No in that referendum was higher than the percentage who voted for the Labour, National, and Green parties combined in the general election last year. The figures were National, 45 percent; Labour, 34 percent; and Greens, 7 percent. Eighty-five percent voted for those three parties, and 87 percent voted No in the referendum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThat vote was achieved against a background of a massive campaign of misinformation. We even had the Prime Minister, no less, talking about the Dr Seuss question. What it showed is that New Zealanders are not fools. I say to Carmel Sepuloni that New Zealanders are not fools. They are not fooled by politicians. They knew exactly what they were voting for. We owe it to them to listen. My colleague Heather Roy quoted John Key when he spoke at a function at the Salvation Army just on 2 years ago. John Key said: \u201Cin reality no one is ever going to be prosecuted for lightly smacking their child. But if the reality is that no one is ever going to be prosecuted for lightly smacking their child, then don\u2019t make it illegal. Don\u2019t make it a crime. It\u2019s poor law-making to write a very strict law and then trust the police and the courts not to enforce it strongly.\u201D That is what John Key said. He said that we should not pass laws if we do not intend to enforce them. I say to this Parliament that the people of New Zealand have spoken. Eighty-seven percent of those who voted have said to us that we should not pass a law to make this illegal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI tried to get an urgent debate on this subject yesterday, and you ruled against me, Mr Speaker. I stood here at 2 o\u2019clock yesterday afternoon and I moved the adoption of my member\u2019s bill. The voices of opposition came from throughout the House. At 12 noon today my member\u2019s bill was drawn. I say to all members of this House, and in particular to the National and Labour members, to listen to the people of New Zealand. Very shortly my bill will come up for first reading and they will have a chance to send it to a select committee. I say to the Labour members that they should not ignore those 87 percent of New Zealanders who voted in the referendum. But to those in the National Party, I say that they can do better than that. They can make this a Government bill and refer it to a select committee. The Prime Minister and Cabinet can vote to make this a Government bill. We cannot afford to ignore that 87 percent of people. When I moved the adoption of my bill yesterday, the ACT Party stood alone as the only party in this House that was prepared to represent the 87 percent of New Zealanders who were not fooled by the people from Barnardos and the Green Party who tried to dismiss this referendum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThe people who supported the yes vote knew overwhelmingly that the law was opposed by the great majority of New Zealanders. They sought to dismiss this referendum and to undermine it before the first vote was ever cast. What New Zealanders have said is that they are not fools. I say to members, and in particular to National members, that they should listen to those people. This issue will not go away. The timing of my bill being drawn from the ballot could not have been better. If National members think that this issue will go away, I say that they should look out for the 2011 election. The people of New Zealand are not prepared to be treated with contempt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7fd9109ef8e45feb91f843d7dd79863\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7fd9109ef8e45feb91f843d7dd79863\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. We know the statistics surrounding M\u0101ori. We know we live shorter lives, we underachieve at school, we fill unskilled low-paid jobs, and many of us have lost touch with our language and customs, and our culture, whereas 170 years ago we M\u0101ori were in control of our lives. We M\u0101ori had our structures; we M\u0101ori had our lores\u2014l-o-r-e-s. We had our laws\u2014l-a-w-s\u2014and we had our beliefs and ways of doing things. Now we have very little. M\u0101ori have been relegated from the position of decision makers and masters of our own destinies to being powerless, marginalised observers, which is a shame because we have so much to offer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWe have so much as a people to contribute, and if we were just allowed to have a meaningful voice at the Auckland Council table, maybe we could contribute to turning round those statistics that plague us. What is this National - M\u0101ori Party - ACT Government so scared of that they are unwilling to give M\u0101ori seats at the council table? What is it that scares this Government about M\u0101ori contributing to the running of T\u0101maki-makau-rau? Do they not like us? Do they not trust us? Do they not value us? This is not an issue about race; it is about honouring the Treaty of Waitangi, which I was taught at school, and as a teacher I myself have taught to schoolchildren, is a partnership. I apologise now to those schoolchildren for the deception: there is no partnership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI recall a Ng\u0101ti Hine kaum\u0101tua the Rev. Charlie Shortland describing the M\u0101ori world and P\u0101keh\u0101 world as opposite banks of a river. The Treaty of Waitangi was the bridge that connected those two worlds. But the question he asked was this: since the signing of the Treaty, who has crossed that bridge most often and stepped into the world opposite? How many M\u0101ori have made that short trip, and have accepted the language, customs, laws, and culture of the P\u0101keh\u0101? Almost all of us have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI ask members to contrast that with the number of P\u0101keh\u0101 who have crossed back the other way and accepted the language, customs, laws, and culture of M\u0101ori? Except for a few courageous P\u0101keh\u0101 souls, the traffic has virtually been one-way across that bridge, to the point now that there is a barrier across one end. In the case of the Auckland super-city council that barrier is preventing people from even starting to cross into the world of the M\u0101ori. That barrier allows the M\u0101ori perspective to be seen only from afar, and the distance between those two banks of that river is growing, and preventing the voices of M\u0101oridom from even being heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EP\u0101keh\u0101 have nothing to fear from M\u0101ori. If diversity is strength, then M\u0101ori faces at the Auckland Council table can be only a good thing. If the M\u0101ori Party partnership with the National - ACT Government is meant to be a mana-enhancing relationship, why would M\u0101ori seats at the council table be any different? The precedent for M\u0101ori seats at the council was set by Mita Ririnui, who introduced a similar piece of legislation in 2001 that established M\u0101ori seats on the Bay of Plenty Regional Council. Environment Bay of Plenty Chairman, John Cronin, said just yesterday that the M\u0101ori seats there were working well. If it works well in the Bay of Plenty, it will work well in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI have concern about the way the M\u0101ori Party has been treated. It voted for a Budget that cut funding and services to M\u0101ori communities because it had an agreement with John Key. Pita Sharples said recently that being in Government is about compromise. So those members ended up compromising on what they knew was right for a shot at being influential. It appears that John Key\u2019s understanding of that agreement is to wheel out the M\u0101ori Party for photo opportunities when he wants to win brown friends and influence people, but then he disregards those wishes when the wishes may upset the nice white folk who voted for him last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThere is no M\u0101ori influence in the National Party or the ACT Party, but I, along with many other M\u0101ori across the country, acknowledge the Hon Tau Henare for trying. New Zealand has no reason to be afraid of M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022b15c53d2c3b0471892798d7a320812a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b15c53d2c3b0471892798d7a320812a5\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I could not help but notice that one of my colleagues across the way was reading a paper and, I presume, imagining tomorrow\u2019s headline, which will say \u201CShane Jones rolls Phil Goff\u201D. Members can look at the smile on Mr Jones\u2019 face. Let me tell the House something that Labour\u2019s own people are saying. We have talked about quotes that Chris Trotter has made. He has asked \u201CWhat\u2019s the matter with Labour? Why is it making so little impression on even its hard-core supporters? And can anyone explain why Labour\u2019s strategists still believe it\u2019s intelligent politics to have their MPs recorded, singing songs on a bus, in the Tory-blue heart of Taranaki?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI have a photograph here of Phil Goff and Annette King sitting on the front seat of the bus, but they are soon to be sent to the back seat of the bus if Dover Samuels has his way. He has said that Mr Goff and his deputy should go: \u201CMy message to the leadership, to Phil and Annette, is it\u2019s time to step aside. The retreads of yesterday have gone past their use-by date.\u201D But I think he more poignantly said: \u201CWe have fundamental problems in the Labour Party. Right now the leadership does not resonate with the ordinary working people.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe bus travelled through Taranaki, weaving its musical way to wayward New Plymouth, which had turned its back on Labour, where Labour members tried to resonate with the people. They sang \u201CHotel California\u201D, \u201CYou Are My Sunshine\u201D, and \u201CTake Me Home, Country Road\u201D. I am sure that Mr Hughes would have liked to sing \u201CThe Wheels on the Bus Go Round and Round\u201D, and perhaps Shane Jones would have liked to say \u201CPhil Goff\u2019s polls go down and down\u201D. What great songs! But Annette King was quoted as saying: \u201CWe are telling the people we are still here, and we are in good heart.\u201D You know, I think that probably a band whose songs those Labour members should have sung was a band called The Pretenders. John Armstrong, quoting the one he called or determined \u201CMr Hapless Hipkins\u201D, who had made a faux pas, said that it was a lesson in why politicians are less than honest, because even when the wheels are falling off the political vehicle in which they are travelling it is said that things are always going swimmingly well, no matter how bleak and desperate the reality is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI very much enjoyed what Harriet Palmer wrote in the Taranaki Daily News that day: \u201CTaranaki is oozing with schmooze like it has never oozed before. Yesterday the region hosted no fewer than 25 Labour Party MPs after their \u2018magical mystery tour\u2019 hit the heartland.\u201D The mystery is why they keep insisting on singing. The magic, I think, is that that is what it will take\u2014magic\u2014to turn heartland Taranaki anywhere near red. In fact, it will never ever get beyond deep purple, which in the end Phil Goff will get used to and eventually accept because Deep Purple was his favourite band back in the 1960s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EBut the good news for Phil Goff and the team is that Cliff Richard is coming back to New Plymouth this summer, so Phil can bring the boys and girls in the bus back to town. This time they can sing: \u201CWe\u2019re all going on a\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a96fda1202e94537842e159a514c95ae\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201Csummer holiday\u201D!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4243e1ce7334b4ea498f90ac36b8314\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: While they are on their summer holiday, we, the members of the National-led Government, will be doing the hard work of turning this country round and getting us back on track, on those roads that our fantastic Minister of Transport is building. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f29f00c9bd544949a570f808d6ad0c5c\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The Government!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277b29c1cbba6406797ebb4e3913572ad\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: I have to ask the question that Chris Trotter asked: what is the matter with Labour? I ask Mr Hughes why it is making so little impression on even its hard-core supporters. It is because its members are all on a summer holiday, or maybe they are in a season of winter solace, instead. But we know that coming up very shortly, in October, they will be into their barbecue season, and barbecues, of course, can be very dangerous places, as we heard the Hon Nathan Guy say. He said that it was in January 1999 when Phil Goff invited 12 Labour MPs to a barbecue where a challenge to Helen Clark\u2019s leadership was cooked up. This is the amazing thing. That frying, roasting, and broiling of their party leader occurred at a time when Helen Clark was polling very, very positively\u2014at 23 percent\u2014in the preferred Prime Minister stakes. I fear what is going to happen in this barbecue season. I fear what is going to happen on Labour Day this year when the barbecues are rolled out and everybody around the country is talking about how Labour is getting on, where we are going, and what is going to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIn this week\u2019s poll, Mr Goff has slumped 2.6 points to just 6.5 percent in the preferred Prime Minister rates\u2014still behind Helen Clark, who is no longer in politics or even in the country. Her legacy lives on, like a ghost keeping the Labour leader awake well into the night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222289838b260446d08dbf972ac6056fa3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is some honourable member going to take the call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da0c58f114d747c4b3600b869ed90ef7\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it correct that the next call is a Green call for the general debate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211359f667c154375b773d7148694505a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is my understanding, if the Green Party wishes to take the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c73cc532901b48cca5d6099be4ba8c01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c73cc532901b48cca5d6099be4ba8c01\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to explore further some of the issues that were debated on the last members\u2019 day, concerning the issue of aggression through the use of armed force, and New Zealand policy on this matter. On 19 August Government MPs expressed some views on the matter of aggression, and it may be worth\u2014respectfully\u2014seeking to correct any misunderstandings on their part in this respect. Their view was, essentially, that observing the crime of aggression imposed unacceptable political constraints on our national leaders. It is, I think, salutary to reflect on the global movement that is gathering pace in criminalising aggression, and to realise where the international community actually stands in 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFor most of the history of human conflict\u2014for the better part of 5,000 years\u2014there has been what is best described as the \u201Cfree market of war\u201D: political and military power combined in the one person, who has been always free to engage in indiscriminate slaughter with impunity. The measure of greatness was in the art of conquering. It is only in the last two centuries or so\u2014almost in the blink of an eye\u2014that it has dawned on our nations that we should develop a political framework to avert war. Yet war remained lawful. It is in fact only in the last century that humankind has sought to make war illegal. The League of Nations commenced that movement, yet war remained legal if all avenues of pacific settlement had been exhausted. It was within the living memory of only the older generation among us that war was finally made illegal; under the United Nations Charter there is only the legal and the illegal use of force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIn 1947 the trials of Nuremberg and Tokyo made it clear that aggression was a crime in customary international law, and that leaders would henceforth be called to account as individuals for such a crime. We have hanged people in that name. In 2002 the International Criminal Court came into force with jurisdiction to adjudicate on the three core crimes: genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity. Under the Rome Statute that set up the International Criminal Court, there is a fourth crime for which the court will soon have jurisdiction: the crime of aggression. The preconditions are twofold: agreement on a definition, and agreement on the jurisdictional relationship between the UN Security Council and the special prosecutor of the International Criminal Court. The necessary work is almost complete on this, and it is expected that at the review conference in Uganda in May or June 2010, the 109 countries that are members of the court will adopt aggression as a crime justiciable by the court. When that happens, these 109 countries will proceed to implement that international agreement in their domestic law, thereby making aggression a crime in their own domestic penal codes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is one of these countries. We have maintained a longstanding policy, under both Labour and National Governments since the early 1990s, of unswerving support for the International Criminal Court, and for its jurisdiction over the four crimes of greatest concern to humanity. That includes aggression; aggression will be a crime. I mention this background because sooner or later\u2014perhaps next year or a little later, but before very long\u2014this Government will be required to agree, along with all other 108 States that are parties to the International Criminal Court, that aggression is a crime. That crime will be a crime in domestic law in the first instance, and an international crime through the International Criminal Court in the second instance. It is therefore important that any comments that Government members make in this House on the question of aggression remain consistent with longstanding New Zealand policy, and do not make that policy look inconsistent when the Government confronts this issue in the very near future. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00223ad51a0f5699440688a513bd5640faac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ad51a0f5699440688a513bd5640faac\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E The most forlorn and wishful words uttered in this Parliament in modern times came at question time this afternoon when the current Leader of the Opposition, in one of his long-winded questions, said: \u201CThere is no hope for the Prime Minister.\u201D Already the Tui beer advertisers, having salivated at the very prospect, have started printing their latest billboards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe fascinating thing when Mr Goff makes such comments is watching his Opposition colleagues collectively sinking lower and lower in the benches opposite until we are left with just furrowed brows and shaking heads visible above the bench tops. It is no wonder their former colleague Dover Samuels is calling on the current Labour leaders to fall on their swords. It is surely better to have an honourable acceptance of the inevitable than to succumb to the knives that are being sharpened behind them. Or perhaps the Labour leaders should take their lead from the garrulous blogger from Rimutaka, Mr Hipkins, who admitted this week to his adoring readers in the Cayman Islands and Kazakhstan in 5,000 breaths of fresh air that fair-minded Kiwis like what the National Government is doing and will not be turning their attention back to the Labour Party any time soon\u2014certainly not while the fresh young team of Goff, King, Mallard, and Hodgson are setting the pace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe member is spot on in his assessment, though whether he finds his analysis personally career-enhancing will ultimately depend on which of the many pretenders to the throne is left standing when the looming battle in the Labour caucus room is over. As the New Zealand Herald\u2019s political commentator John Armstrong wrote a few days ago, it was an important political lesson for \u201Cthe hapless Hipkins\u201D that \u201Ceven when the wheels are falling off the political vehicle in which they are travelling:\u201D he needs to insist \u201Cthat things are always going swimmingly well no matter how bleak and desperate the reality.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo what have Mr Armstrong\u2019s media colleagues had to say about Labour\u2019s problems lately? Bill Ralston wrote: \u201CThe problem is at the moment the Opposition is pursuing a scatter-gun approach, attacking \u2026 the Government with a knee-jerk hostility. This largely falls on deaf ears\u201D. Labour\u2019s very good friend Mr Christopher Trotter laments: \u201CWhat\u2019s the matter with Labour? Why is it making so little impression on even its hard-core supporters? And can anyone explain why Labour\u2019s strategists still believe it\u2019s intelligent politics to have their MPs recorded, singing songs, on a bus, in the Tory-blue heart of Taranaki?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ETelevision New Zealand\u2019s Guyon Espiner picked up the theme when he noted: \u201CIt was probably a good thing Phil Goff wasn\u2019t driving the bus\u201D\u2014to nowhere\u2014\u201Cbecause right now he appears to have little sense of direction.\u201D The problem is, as John Armstrong concluded: \u201CIt took a while for Goff to work out that people were simply not listening to what he and Labour had to say.\u201D Mr Espiner even recommends that Mr Goff should take a leaf out of the Prime Minister\u2019s book. I ask members opposite to listen up. Mr Espiner suggested to Phil Goff: \u201CMaybe Phil, you should cuddle up to Key a little bit. See what happens.\u201D That is excellent advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENine months into the new Government\u2019s term a wonderful contrast is apparent. I am proud to be part of a Government that is united and determined and is tackling the issues that matter in these challenging times. The focus of the new Government is on easing the pain of the recession. It is on responding to New Zealanders\u2019 concerns about law and order with a huge raft of measures being capably driven through by the Hon Simon Power, the Hon Judith Collins, and others. The focus is on increasing resources to the health sector, and on redirecting efforts and funding to essential front-line services. We have committed to boosting education, to fixing the school buildings that were falling down under Labour, to dealing with special-needs funding, and to boosting literacy and numeracy, which will help New Zealanders to get ahead in life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe have been out and about listening to New Zealanders, who hold a wide range of views on climate change, and we have set a realistic\u2014demanding but achievable\u2014carbon emissions reduction target that is in line with our pre-election commitments. We have been enhancing our relationship with our M\u0101ori Party colleagues, focusing on raising educational and training aspirations for M\u0101ori and facing up to their health challenges, and the list goes on. We are getting on with the job, and New Zealanders love it. What does Labour offer in response? It offers weak and divided leadership in the House and disingenuous tut-tutting outside it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2df164f63d4467bb9123b2bf47207ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2df164f63d4467bb9123b2bf47207ba\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Just for the record, I point out that that was the member for Hamilton West, Tim Macindoe. I never thought there would be a worse member for Hamilton West than Grant Thomas, but I think such a member has arrived now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f334f4c952a47cab55ef10bcfa6cb69\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: What happened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273287c0e02d541e3be2e20b9d807bee7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I have won three different electorates, I say to Mr Quinn. When that member wants to run, I hope he runs against me every time. I will take him around and introduce him to people; it will do my vote a lot of good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI was in Hamilton yesterday at the funeral of Rufus Rogers. He was a member of Parliament who was born in 1913. He was involved in the Labour Party from the mid-1930s up until as recently as a month ago, at the Rufus Rogers branch of the Labour Party. When I came back and looked at the news, it caused me to reflect on the Waikato members in Parliament, not so much in Dr Rogers\u2019 period\u20141972-1975\u2014but those immediately afterwards: the Minogues, the Shearers, and the Warings. They were the true people of the National Party, the people who had the intense integrity to stand up in this Parliament for their views and to cross the floor\u2014the way that the Associate Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs has done in the past on the question of M\u0101ori representation in local government. I thought that Mr Henare was misdirecting his anger yesterday when he was addressing Mr Hide. The person whom he should have been addressing was the Prime Minister. It was the Prime Minister who indicated that Mr Henare could not vote according to his conscience; that he could not stand up and do what he thought was right. He indicated that Mr Henare could not take a principled stand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMr Henare has been made a fool of. He went around Auckland with a subcommittee of the Auckland Governance Legislation Committee, which he led from marae to marae, and he told the people on those marae that the Government was listening. We know now that back in June, before all that had occurred, the Prime Minister and the leader of the ACT Party had done a sweetheart deal, and all those visits were a total charade. It was an embarrassment to this Parliament. It was a personal embarrassment to Tau Henare, who was leading the subcommittee. I say to Mr Henare that it is about time he stood up to the Prime Minister and talked to his colleagues who believe the same as he does. It is time he crossed the floor and supported the amendments that will be moved by this party and by\u2014I am almost certain\u2014the M\u0101ori Party, as well, in order to do what is right in Auckland and do what he campaigned on. In fact, if we look carefully, we see it was something Rodney Hide campaigned on as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI want to make one other point in this short debate: I like the comments of \u201CHonest\u201D John Carter. \u201CHonest\u201D John Carter has been talking about the fact that the contract that is being offered to workers in his electorate\u2014and in that of every other electorate member in the country\u2014is a crock. The people who are working on behalf of Telecom through a contractual arrangement are being forced out of their employment. They are being made redundant with no redundancy pay at all. They are being offered a contract that will, in some cases, halve their wages. They are being made to pay $60,000 for equipment, yet there is no guarantee of work. I say to \u201CHonest\u201D John Carter: \u201CThank goodness there is one Tory who will stand up for his electorate.\u201D It is a pity there are no more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d1344abe7c143bab60c9a46ff8d04e6\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (Second for 2009/10) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022371880705c684a5da93c310617f76968\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae015376ad684d5e92e6f7c78cd3466f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae015376ad684d5e92e6f7c78cd3466f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2009/10) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022998b9f36e93949daa697d9709a206ca7\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dcf81b4133d5429880beb55bcb90f403\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a5deb1399d994812a47053841e9918d1\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cf069d33de9f48baabdf2f904d65b381\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b945b606204f41508084333efbd8e90a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b945b606204f41508084333efbd8e90a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill be now read a third time and the Imprest Supply (Second for 2009/10) Bill be now read a second time. The passage of the appropriation bill and the Imprest Supply Bill through Parliament signals another step in the parliamentary administrative process, which on the face of it is pretty simple. But these bills underpin a process where the incoming Government is trying to get hold of the momentum of Government spending to wring some productivity and effectiveness out of it, and to work with the reality that, on current forecasts, for the next 10 years the New Zealand Government will be showing deficits. I think those forecasts should be taken reasonably seriously. Although we have seen a lift in confidence among businesses and consumers, and although we have seen commentary about green shoots in the recovery, it would be a brave economist and, I think, a brave politician who would see our path over the next few years as a smooth path of sustainable recovery\u2014that is possible, but it is not very likely. When we have events of the scale of the global financial crisis alongside the most coordinated world recession since the 1930s, it is unlikely that all the consequences will wash through the international economy or the domestic economy in just 9 or 12 months. The road to recovery is likely to be somewhat twisty with a few rocks along the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThese bills underpin a process going on in that context. Over the last 5 years this economy has become quite significantly unbalanced. Some of the work we have done shows just how far it has become unbalanced. If we look at what has happened to GDP going back to 2004, we see there are some pretty interesting statistics about the rate of change. The tradable sector, which is the export sector and tourism largely, has actually shrunk by around 10 percent since 2004. Further analysis shows that in the last 10 years that tradable sector\u2014which is the income-earning sector of the economy\u2014has not had any growth in terms of jobs. Within that tradable sector, service exports are down 13 percent. Manufacturing is down 16 percent in the last 5 years. The primary sector has grown a bit\u2014around 2 percent\u2014despite the fact that we went through a cycle of very high commodity prices. Over that time GDP grew, and it is now 7 percent larger than it was in 2004. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWhat has actually grown in this economy is the non-tradable sector. That is the part of the economy that does not compete internationally, and it includes the Government, domestic construction, and quite a lot of our services, such as restaurants. The non-tradable part of the economy has grown by 15 percent in the last 5 years, and within that, the Government part of it grew by 32 percent. Here we have a pretty stark picture of imbalance in the economy: the export sector shrank by 10 percent and Government administration grew by 32 percent. Over the next 5 years that simply cannot happen, for the very simple reason that to maintain the rate of increase in Government spending that applied over the last 5 years New Zealand would have to borrow at an unsustainable level. It is no different from a household budget. Over the last 5 years Government revenue has grown at half the rate of Government expenditure: Government revenue grew at 25 percent; Government expenditure grew at 50 percent. No company, no business, no Government, and no household can grow its expenditure at twice the rate of its income. It is not a matter of ideology or politics. Over the next 5 years that simply cannot keep going. The reason is not that it would not suit most people; it is just that to finance that rate of Government expenditure we would have to borrow a very large amount of money, and the world may not be willing to lend it to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn the last Budget the Government took a number of steps to limit the amount of borrowing it would have to do. Even with the steps taken in the last Budget, Government debt will more than double over the next 4 years. The New Zealand Government will borrow around $40 billion in that time; the current stock of Government debt is about $34 billion. That means that the Government has to pay a good deal of attention to getting value for the taxpayers\u2019 dollars, and there are a few high-profile examples of where that will be a challenge. One example is the accident compensation scheme. The accident compensation scheme system is run through levies. People pay levies, and those levies are likely to substantially increase because the previous Government expanded the coverage and held the levies down. The moment of truth has now arrived. But there is one account\u2014the non-earners account, which is for people such as older people who fall over and break their hip\u2014that the Government finances directly. When we came into office we discovered that there was a hole in that account of $300 million a year. Over the fiscal forecast period, that represents $1.2 billion. Well, the bad news is that the hole is a lot bigger than we thought. It is now about $420 million a year, which over the forecast period represents $1.7 billion of unexpected expenditure. That is the scale of the problem this Government has to deal with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAll the fiscal momentum that was built up under the previous Government has created a high level of public expectation. Our revenue has dropped considerably, and although in the short term there is a benefit to the economy because of the stimulus effect of that increased expenditure, in the long run it is unsustainable. I challenge Opposition members to argue that it is sustainable. I do not think it would help their credibility very much if it did\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255c25a9b4f47499a84f88ff363d8f34b\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: What credibility?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c3f127ff32407e98cc8068966b61d3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a good question. When we listen to Opposition members, we find that for each and every decision the Government makes, they claim that more money should have been spent. Well, more money being spent means more borrowing from a world that is being fairly careful about whom it is lending to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government is working assiduously with the public sector, and I must say that the leadership of the public sector has shown a ready willingness to get to grips with the new realities. It is not just getting to grips with the new Government, as it is part of the professionalism of the leadership of the public sector to handle a change in Government; probably the bigger change is the change in the fiscal outlook. In health, for instance, it is simply not tenable that health expenditure can grow at 8 percent per year. It just cannot keep going. That is just a matter of fact, and, fortunately, the leadership of the health sector is starting to get a realistic grip of that fact. Right through our discussions with the public sector we aim to provide improved services for the public. That will mean sorting out priorities and making decisions based on those priorities. The fact is that some things matter more than others. Where there has been low-quality and ineffective expenditure, we will need to reallocate that money, because there are still plenty of high-priority needs in our community, and sometimes in a recession those needs grow. But I think we need to be straightforward about the need for that prioritisation and the will of this Government to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe are heading out to rebalance the economy after 10 years of economic mismanagement\u201410 years of too much borrowing and too much spending. The next 10 years have to be about saving, investing, exporting, and reward for effort, and these bills indicate some of the decisions that the Government is making to achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u002292a0ae7cb2e348d688ea9d552c4c281d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292a0ae7cb2e348d688ea9d552c4c281d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That all words after \u201Cand\u201D be omitted, and the following substituted: \u201Cthat this House condemns the decision of the Government to pre-empt the democratic process through the select committee on Auckland governance regarding M\u0101ori representation, and in doing so ignored the views of submitters and members of the public on this issue.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I will touch on the financial side of what the Minister has just said. Every morning Bill English gets up and thanks God that the previous Labour Government never followed his advice when he was in Opposition, which was to spend the surplus. Mr English inherited from a Labour Government\u2014a responsible Labour Government\u2014a zero net Government debt situation and one of the lowest rates of unemployment in the world. That is why New Zealand is weathering the recession as well as it is. It is because of the very situation that Bill English inherited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe have major concerns about the direction that the Budget took and about its ineffectiveness in countering the soaring levels of unemployment. In the last quarter of the household labour force survey, unemployment went up at the fastest rate in 20 years\u2014the fastest rate in 20 years\u2014and Mr English has done nothing in the financial appropriations that will turn that situation round. We are concerned about the lack of fairness and the poor priorities in this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe are concerned that Mr English can bring in legislation that slashes the funding for therapy for the most vulnerable and disadvantaged kids in schools. We are concerned that he can bring in legislation that kills adult education, with its proud history of more than a century of delivering to the needs of continuing education, although the Government somehow has the money\u2014$35 million\u2014to fund private education and kids who are already advantaged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe have concerns also that this Budget lacks any real plan to seize the opportunity that will be created by the upturn in the international economy. Ironically, our economy will do better, probably, out of the stimulus packages of Australia and the United States than it will do out of anything that Bill English has moved through this House. We know that there will be an upturn, and surely this Budget should have prepared New Zealand for that with investment in research and development, and investment in skills and training so that we approach that upturn able to take advantage of it and able to improve the standard of living and the well-being of our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI come back to the amendment I have moved to the motion. It is about our concern that, once again, this Government has refused to consult genuinely with people and to listen to what people were trying to tell it. It is no wonder that the personal relationships amongst the members of the National Government and the coalition parties came apart in the outburst from Tau Henare yesterday. His calling the leader of one of the parties that gives the Government supply and confidence a \u201Cbuffoon\u201D and a \u201Cjerk-off\u201D underlies the frustration of people in the National Government\u2014including, I believe, Georgina te Heuheu. I read her speech back in 2001 in which she supported the creation of M\u0101ori seats in the Bay of Plenty. National, which was then in Opposition, gave her the right to vote for that legislation, but it is currently denying that right to its members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIt is no wonder that Tau Henare was as angry as he was. He was given the job of going around the Auckland marae, talking to people about the bill on Auckland City, telling them that they would be listened to, and telling them that the Government would take account of what they were saying to the select committee. I believe that Tau Henare did so in good faith. But the good faith was not followed by Mr Key and his Government, who pulled the rug out from under the select committee, said they had already made the decision on M\u0101ori seats, and did not even want to hear what the select committee was considering, what it might deliberate on, and what it might report back to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIt is no wonder that the New Zealand Herald stated that that was an abuse of the due process of democracy. New Zealanders and Aucklanders turned up to a select committee to give their submissions on what the Government might decide to do, only to find out that the Government had already made the decision. The Government did not want to know about their views. Rodney Hide had promised earlier in the process that he would respect the select committee. He did no such thing. He threatened to throw his toys out of the cot and resign if there were to be M\u0101ori seats, and John Key, who had made it clear to Pita Sharples and Rodney Hide that he was supporting M\u0101ori seats, caved in to that pressure, backed down, and left Tau Henare in an impossible position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori representation is not a new concept. There are seven M\u0101ori members of Parliament here, and they were elected in precisely the same way that we would have Auckland councillors represented from M\u0101ori seats in Auckland. In 2001 Labour passed a bill that gave M\u0101ori people the chance to have representation on the Bay of Plenty Regional Council. The chair of Environment Bay of Plenty came out yesterday and said that that situation has worked well, not only for M\u0101ori people but for all the people of the Bay of Plenty. If we get people involved, get them participating, and ensure their representation, then we will have a strong democracy\u2014and it is not just about the issues themselves; it is about consultation, and this consultation programme was an absolute sham. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ENgarimu Blair is the spokesman for Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua. He called the process a masquerade, a sham, and a farce. For political reasons, the Government had already decided what it was going to do, regardless of what the public said. I have a quote here from John Key. He promised that \u201CThe Government is not so arrogant that it won\u2019t listen to the submissions that are made before or during the select committee process.\u201D That statement is sheer hypocrisy and is not sustained by what the Government actually did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe submissions were 60 percent in favour of having M\u0101ori seats; 20 percent were opposed. Mr Key said he would listen and would not be arrogant. He did not listen and he was arrogant. The Government disregarded entirely the submissions that were made and the process through which those submissions were put forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI recall that straight after the royal commission\u2019s report John Key and Rodney Hide made a decision about where Auckland was going, without any consultation at all. I recall that a bill was rammed through this Parliament\u2014on a Saturday night, under urgency\u2014without being referred to a select committee. What did Government members tell us at the time? They said that there would be consultation and that there would be a second bill on which people could have their say. It was to be the showcase of National\u2019s consultation on Auckland City. What did we find? We found\u2014again\u2014that it was a sham and a fraud on the people of Auckland. There has been much rhetoric about the select committee process, but it has not been taken seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI will finish by mentioning a quote from the other major tribe in Auckland, Tainui. Tuku Morgan said of Mr Key that \u201CHe says the relationship with Maori is a significant relationship. Well, clearly that\u2019s amounted to nothing.\u201D The M\u0101ori Party went into a coalition with National on the basis of a mana-enhancing relationship. The decision by National not to have M\u0101ori seats has stripped that relationship of any mana. The decision by National is contrary to democratic process. The decision by National shows that it is utterly contemptuous of and arrogant about the right of people in Auckland to be heard on what will happen to their city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022 data-id=\u0022b38de465ddb548eebc78049bc7886bcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b38de465ddb548eebc78049bc7886bcd\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak in the debate on the Appropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill. I will make some comments relative to the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s speech a minute ago. Yes, there is no doubt disappointment over the Auckland seats issue. There is no doubt about that; the disappointment is around us, for all to see. Yes, I did cross the floor in 2002 to support Mita Ririnui\u2019s bill. I did that partly because the Bay of Plenty is an area I know well, and because it seemed to me that that was the thing to do for that area at the time. Thankfully, my party allowed me to do so. But in the end it may be that the best way for the seats to eventually come in across this country at local government level is for it to happen in exactly the same way that Mita Ririnui did it for the Bay of Plenty. The Bay of Plenty wanted to have M\u0101ori seats, and the fact that they work shows what a wise move that was. In the end, the Tuku Morgans of this world will find a way to ensure that their voice is heard as mana whenua. M\u0101ori in Auckland will make sure they find a way to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThis House\u2014and this Government, in particular\u2014wants to focus on some of the things that really matter at this point in time: literacy and numeracy for M\u0101ori and Pacific children, training initiatives, more support for training, and job opportunities. Those are the things that lift the lives of M\u0101ori individuals, M\u0101ori children, and M\u0101ori young adults today, not the issue of seats. Seats are an important issue, but they are not as important as the things that this Government wants to focus on, which are about lifting the lives of individuals, families, and communities, and the rebalancing of the economy, which the Minister of Finance talked about today. Rebalancing the economy is absolutely critical to ensuring that every individual, family, and community flourishes and grows into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI will focus briefly on the area of M\u0101ori development and M\u0101ori advancement. National believes in and supports the notion that the job of a Government is to create the framework that allows individuals and communities to flourish. That is what is happening in our approach to M\u0101ori issues across the board. The seats are important, but they do not necessarily lift M\u0101ori families at this point in time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022223ae406af354e799941a7dc2bf6587b\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, cut it out, Georgie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcbe2e6d097946ec88089f86c6a6e52d\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU\u003C/span\u003E: They do not, and that member knows it. Mind you, when that member was in Government he did not know what would lift M\u0101ori families. He did not know that then, and he does not know it now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EWe inherited a long tail of dysfunction, and that member knows it. Over 50 percent of M\u0101ori boys cannot read and write. That is what was bequeathed to our Government when we came into office. M\u0101ori seats will not fix that, but national standards in schools will, and literacy and numeracy will. More training and job opportunities are what fix the issues that M\u0101ori families worry about on a daily basis. The previous Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs did not get that. He was good at going around the marae, and I give him credit for that, but ultimately we inherited a long tail of underachievement, which Labour should be absolutely ashamed of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI will look at some of the things we are doing in terms of education\u2014I see Minister Tolley in the House. Despite the economic downturn, we have a whole raft of initiatives designed to lift M\u0101ori and Pacific individuals, particularly those individuals and families in our communities who are not doing well because Labour, which was profligate when in Government, wasted the surpluses and did not address the issues at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003ERegarding the spending on public services, I say there is a $3 billion boost for health services, $1.68 billion of spending on education to raise student achievement, plus 600 more police, 246 more probation workers, more infrastructure\u2014roads, in particular\u2014and more schools. Maintaining people\u2019s entitlements is absolutely important. There is $1.68 billion over the years 2008 to 2013 to improve facilities for education. We will be building new schools, modernising existing ones, helping students to meet the national standards, and making sure that if young New Zealanders are not in training, they at least have opportunities to look towards that. The things that matter are education, health, boosting M\u0101ori providers, strengthening M\u0101ori business, and developing a M\u0101ori tourism strategy, which the previous Government never did. All of those things will improve the lives of M\u0101ori way, way before having seats in local government would. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003ELabour thinks that we appear to have a slight hiccup here\u2014and that is all it is. We know my colleague Tau Henare, and we know that sometimes he just has to make a comment; he cannot help himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a92ace30a80c43479f99d14a9e4a2580\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a69a40b89fa416195314d7fa87939a5\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very affectionate comment; it is not a criticism. I admire him, and he has been here way longer than any of those members. Tau Henare will say what he wants to say, but that does not a rift make. Labour wishes it would. It has the temerity to think that somehow, over this one hiccup, it can get the M\u0101ori Party on its side. Labour does not have a hope of doing that. Those members would not have a clue about how to respectfully court the M\u0101ori Party. Helen Clark called the M\u0101ori Party the last cab off the rank, but the Labour members think that this one hiccup for us will somehow get that cab to go to them. It absolutely cannot. The Labour Party did not treat its M\u0101ori members properly; otherwise Tariana Turia would still be sitting over there. Where is she? She is not there; she was totally humiliated by that party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239cd3139193f41428aad2a2c72700e71\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Where is she?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223037ff22a1034cc99a39878ef573efc0\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU\u003C/span\u003E: She is still on our side of the House. Labour would not have a clue about what respect or mana is. Labour trampled on Tariana Turia when she was there, and it has not done anything this year to win the affection or respect of the M\u0101ori Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party will be with us for a long time to come. There is no doubt we will have our ups and downs; that is what happens in a family. But essentially we have laid a long-term plank for the M\u0101ori Party to hopefully remain with us. Labour, with all its M\u0101ori support for all of those years, trampled on the interests of M\u0101ori people and does not have a show of winning the M\u0101ori seats back. Certainly, for the time being Labour does not have a show of winning the M\u0101ori Party to its side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00229add40e6d0e04780985eabc47fe0bb6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229add40e6d0e04780985eabc47fe0bb6d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take a call in this debate today on the third reading of the Appropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill and the second reading of the Imprest Supply (Second for 2009/10) Bill. It seems a long, long time since Budget 2009, since Bill English walked through those double doors with his brand new shirt and tie on, clutching his blue Budget in his hands. He was so excited and eager. It is a long, long time since the Government primed up the National backbench to clap at every pause and every apostrophe in his speech. Every punctuation mark got a round of applause from the National backbenchers. They looked adoringly and longingly at the Minister of Finance. There has been a lot happening in the New Zealand community since Budget 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESince that time, 2,000 people a week have been thrown on to the unemployment scrap heap in this country. That does not matter much to the National Party, but the public is certainly starting to take notice of it. They are feeling it in their families and in their pockets. They know that we have a big problem. The Minister for Social Development and Employment said that unemployment was just a blip, but I have to tell her that that blip is becoming a blight on the landscape of New Zealand. Then we have the Prime Minister telling New Zealanders that the recession will be over by Christmas. Unfortunately, his Minister of Finance does not agree with him, and I note that last night, when the Minister of Internal Affairs was shovelling out some cheques from the Lotteries Commission, he said that organisations were going to need that money because it was not known when the recession would be over. The people of New Zealand have been looking at what this Government\u2019s response is to the growing number of people who are being made unemployed. We were told that there was a rolling maul of initiatives, but it seems to me that it is a rolling maul where they seldom find the ball. There is a lot of eye gouging going on. We have seen that in the last few days between the ACT Party and the National Party, and the M\u0101ori Party and the ACT Party. It seems to me that whenever they get near the ball, all the Prime Minister does is kick the ball for touch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe Government held a summit where it was going to solve the unemployment problem in New Zealand. It was billed as refreshing, exciting, and collaborative. It was idea-generating and visionary, but it produced a 9-day fortnight in which 33 companies showed an interest. It produced a cycleway that was going to be from the North Cape to the Bluff and create 3,700 jobs, but unfortunately that big idea is now a number of little bike rides and there is no talk of jobs at all. This Government has been unable to produce a decent idea to help New Zealanders who have become unemployed. What does the business community think about that summit? The Research New Zealand business confidence report for July said that it was very, very disappointed in this Government. Only one in every hundred businesses signalled that they had any faith in the Job Summit producing any gains for small business. Nearly 50 percent were convinced it would have zero impact on their business\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1335f2d95314363adcf02d729b7b9aa\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c20d1b730a0a4cf9a5a0bb160c7f7e12\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CZero percent impact\u201D said 50 percent of the businesses surveyed. They thought the summit was a joke; it was a joke. That was that Government\u2019s response to the unemployment rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIn the meantime, the numbers climb every day. People are going on to benefits every day in New Zealand. We now have 310,296 on main benefits in New Zealand. That is up from 258,000 and growing fast. What has this Government\u2019s response been? It has been a whole lot of slogans. Let us name them. We have ReStart, and today we heard about Fresh Start for young offenders. We have Job Ops, we have Community Max, and today we got boot camps. They are a whole lot of flash names and very little action. The number of people going on to these programmes, in relation to the number of people who are becoming unemployed, is minuscule. I ask members to look at the ReStart programme, the flagship programme from Paula Bennett a few weeks ago. We know the number of people going onto the ReStart programme has gone down every week in the last month. The unemployment numbers are going up, but the number of people who can access this flagship programme are going down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen we had Job Ops. We know that one-third of those on the unemployment benefit are young people. It is a serious issue. Paula Bennett rolls out her latest slogan, which is Job Ops. Employers will get $5,000 for each new job they create for a young person. Only there is a problem\u2014they are not new jobs that are being created. Employers around New Zealand are saying they are existing vacancies that would have been filled by a New Zealander; they are not new jobs. What have we got? We have exactly what Grey Power said to me would happen; we have the old unemployment merry-go-round under way. So $5,000 is given to an employer to take on a young person and deny an opportunity for an older person, who then goes on the unemployment benefit. It does not make a jot of difference to unemployment in New Zealand. It has a feel-good factor for the Government and that is all. As Grey Power said, we have many people aged 50-plus who are now not getting jobs at all and not getting a look in. They are not getting a subsidy. If they have a partner who works, they get no help at all. They have families, they have mortgages, and they are under considerable stress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis is the time when one would have thought that a Government would invest in skills and in education, and would train people to be ready for the uplift in the economy that will happen. But what did it do? It cut many of the important programmes that would have helped New Zealanders into jobs. It cut community education, cut scholarships, and cut the training incentive allowance\u2014the very assistance that got the Minister for Social Development and Employment into a job. At this time when we should have these tools to help people get jobs, the Government cut them. It does not make sense. No one can make sense of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo what is this Government doing? It has decided that it will rule by committees. It has set up 40 committees since the election, one for every week that National has been in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcfddce67dc44a7cabccfa15f8889073\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022707d7c2a143d4c6b9744a868accc39e8\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Forty committees! The Government has set up review committees and regulatory review committees. It has set up advisory groups and technical advisory groups. It has set up ministerial panels, boards of inquiry, task forces, expert panels, policy forums, and working groups. It is a Government run by committees and bureaucrats. Every one of those committees has to have a whole lot of people to run them. They have to have a travel budget and they have to have consultants to run their committees. This is a Government that cannot make a decision. It kicks the ball for touch. It sets up committees, reviews, task forces, panels, and forums, but will it make a decision that will benefit New Zealanders? No, it will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe are very, very concerned at the lack of action by this Government when it comes to people who are unemployed in New Zealand. Over 50,000 people are now on the unemployment benefit. Over 138,000 people are out of work, and by next December we are looking at 180,000-plus people out of work. In the meantime, let us have another committee! Let us have another task force! Let us have another review! But, for goodness\u2019 sake, do not put in place anything that will make a difference to the lives of New Zealanders. This Budget could have done so much for so many people; it did so little. It is a real disappointment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u002214a3a0a860d64a7993a04a335a2192d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214a3a0a860d64a7993a04a335a2192d1\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Last year in the equivalent debate\u2014this debate happens every year\u2014my colleague and co-leader of the Green Party, Russel Norman, said that the defining realities of the 21st century were threefold. The first was the real constraint of resource depletion, particularly of oil, fresh water, and arable lands. The second was the decreasing capacity of the planet to absorb our pollution and our waste, like carbon dioxide. The third was our addiction as a species to exponential growth in both resource use and waste production. These are global realties but they are played out every day in our own communities. They are made real by the current twin crises that our communities face\u2014the crisis of the global recession and that of climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EEach Government is required to deal with these constraints in a practical and effective way that protects the community and the environment, that prepares for the consequences of an oil-constrained world, and that ensures our country will continue to prosper in the world. This was the opportunity for this new Government to demonstrate that capacity. But doing so required a New Zealand Government to understand one basic fundamental truth about the New Zealand economic context: no environment\u2014no economy. In a climate crisis, action now saves us money. In a recession, every job counts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Green Party, of course, has had the common sense to recognise that our economy is 100 percent dependent on our environment. That is why, prior to the Budget announcement, we released a Green New Deal stimulus package, of a very modest investment of $3.3 billion over 3 years, that would create 43,000 new jobs for New Zealanders. Unlike this Government\u2019s stale 19th century approach of taking money from the most vulnerable in order to provide subsidies to the most powerful, our Green New Deal package would help to develop a stronger, more resilient, and more prosperous economy for everyone in our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EAlongside the stimulus package we have produced a range of measures, in a report called Getting there, to reduce our carbon emissions in order to meet a responsible emissions target of 30 to 40 percent. We must reduce our carbon emissions and increase our carbon sinks if we are to protect our economy and our environment from the worst costs of climate change. These are the Green twin solutions to the twin crises. Our Green twin solutions will help to ensure we have a prosperous nation ready for the challenges of the 21st century. Our Green twin solutions propose major energy efficiency improvements\u2014for example, the reduction of the demand for energy and the reduction of carbon emissions\u2014while saving money for our New Zealand families. Home insulation will reduce energy demand and save families money in their power bills. Business efficiency upgrades will increase productivity and save energy costs for businesses. Speeding up the replacement of the Huntly coal-fired power station by new geothermal and wind generation, which is already in the pipeline, will also help to reduce costs and save on carbon emissions. These investments in major energy efficiency and reduction in energy demand will create some 2,700 jobs. In a climate crisis, early action saves us money. In a recession every job counts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis Government has dedicated huge amounts of public money into the building of motorways. The Greens\u2019 twin solutions clearly show that this use of public funds is grossly irresponsible. The Government argues that because 85 percent of New Zealanders go to work by car, we therefore have to spend all our money on roads. But we know that our public transport system is creaking at the seams. Indeed, just this year there was a 10 percent growth in the use of public transport in Auckland. Public transport usage grew by 3.9 million trips. But the Government is stuck in the 19th century and is failing to deal with these real issues of climate change, peak oil, and the costs that are therefore borne by our families. Our Green twin solutions will reduce our emissions, reduce families\u2019 transport costs, and reduce our current account deficit, in part through the lessening over time of our dependence on oil, and therefore in the spending of some $8 billion a year on oil imports. Our solutions would reduce our oil imports by moving funding from low-quality spending on new motorways into high-quality spending on increased public transport capacity. We know that we can create 40 percent more jobs through spending on public transport, safer cycling, and walking than on roads. We would reduce congestion, pollution, child road deaths, and costs to business. We would help our current account deficit, as I have outlined. In a climate crisis, action now will save us money, and in a recession every job counts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s decision to axe funding for children and their families was a key means by which big business and wealthy interests were subsidised through tax cuts and other subsidies. It was a key means by which this Government took money from the most vulnerable to give to the most powerful. Funding is being slashed in adult and community education. Enviroschools funding has been slashed, and 675 schools and over 200,000 children are losing the support that the Government provided to that important programme. Three million dollars a year has been axed from the Nutrition Fund, which was set up to help schools have healthy eating and edible garden initiatives. We know that poor diet contributes to poor learning outcomes, and that poor diet contributes to some 8,000 preventable deaths in this country, yet the Minister has axed food and nutritional guidelines. There have been cuts to funding for 80 projects that were supported through the Enterprise Allowance scheme. These were projects that provided employment in local and rural areas, the basis of quality economic development in those areas where it was most needed by New Zealand families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EOur Green twin solutions will protect our families, and our country\u2019s children. We want New Zealanders to be warmly housed, to be healthy and well, and to have access to affordable food and clean water so our kids can learn better at school. More of our communities will have warmer, drier, and healthier homes under the Greens\u2019 twin solutions, including the 6,000 extra homes built by otherwise unemployed builders, plumbers, and electricians. We will get the families that are desperately in need of homes off the waiting lists and with a roof over their heads. Social cohesion will be better encouraged during these particularly tough times, especially for our older folk who rely on programmes like adult and community education to stay connected to the communities they have supported through many, many years of work and volunteering. We will support communities by investing in community economic development initiatives. Recycling and waste initiatives, if they are locally and community-owned, return much more to the local community than do national or international companies. We will invest in free, low-cost health care, community transport, community gardens, river and coastal restoration projects, and the creation of some 700 extra jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis Government, through its Budget initiatives, has returned this country to the 19th century. The provision of more roads and the development of more coal-fired power stations, through some of the legislation the Government has passed, denies the reality of an increasingly constrained resource-constrained environment. Our country must be prepared for the new challenges of the new century, as opposed to looking back to the old century. Our Green twin solutions to the twin crises would set New Zealand on a path to a low-carbon, less oil-dependent, more prosperous future. Our twin solutions will ready our communities and help to protect them by providing new jobs and protecting the environment on which our economy is so completely dependent. In a climate crisis early action\u2014action now\u2014will save us money. In a recession every job counts. The Green Party\u2019s twin solutions to the twin crises would provide that; this Government has taken us backwards. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022769269b3aeea4ea4a057488caad9f3be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022769269b3aeea4ea4a057488caad9f3be\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Listening to the Committee stage of the appropriations debate reminds me how many of the issues that we have debated over the last few months are precisely the same issues that have been debated in this Chamber for at least 40 years. In 1979 I wrote a paper advocating broadening the tax base and lowering tax. That paper got me sacked from the front bench. Today the Tax Working Group is undertaking the same project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EAlthough some things have not changed, there are some things that have changed, and I am not sure that all of them have changed for the better. Today\u2019s political parties, it seems to me, are obsessed not with goals, not with things that we want to achieve, but with the way that things operate. There is no rational political discussion about setting goals and determining the best way to achieve them. Instead, politicians pigeon-hole each other according to how they want to manage things. A brief look at what the parties have been saying during the debate on this legislation demonstrates this particularly well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EWhen I was a member of the Labour Party we almost always agreed on what we wanted\u2014a decent education for our children, an economy that ensured people had jobs, and a welfare care system that looked after people. We used to debate how to get there, and there was a lot of disagreement on that. Some believed in centralisation and clever bureaucrats, and others thought that we needed to make people responsible for themselves and to ensure that those who fell through the cracks had a safety net. We agreed, in other words, on the ends, but we argued about the means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EListening to the debate on this legislation and other legislation in this House, I cannot help but realise that today\u2019s Labour Party is the complete opposite. The ends its members seek are different. Some want a growing economy, some want to eradicate poverty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ecc2f2cfc624050927fb4eb17d643ae\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: This is National\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c78167a88a2459aaa6571611aead124\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS\u003C/span\u003E: That is all right. I am talking about that member\u2019s debate. Some Labour members want to stop economic growth, in the name of the environment. But the one thing they all agree upon is the means. They all agree that the best way to achieve the diverse ends they seek is through larger Government and the centralisation of power. That is what we have heard over recent times. They never tell us why centralisation is a good thing. They just tell us that it is so. There is no better illustration of this than the recent member\u2019s bill introduced by Phil Twyford, which sought to protect and retain State ownership of assets owned by local councils. To Phil Twyford, State ownership is all-important. He never talked about the best way to get value from the assets, he never talked about the proper role of Government, and he never talked about what he wanted those assets to achieve for the people of Auckland. As long as the State had its hands on the assets, he was happy. That is Labour today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThe same narrow view is present in education. When Anne Tolley and Heather Roy announced education scholarships for up to 250 students from low-income backgrounds, Labour members were opposed. They said it was the privatisation of education. They were never willing to argue the merits of a few vouchers, over State monopoly. State monopoly has become their goal. It is obsessed not with goals but with structures. The reality is that Labour\u2019s inability to argue sensibly over means ensures that it will always be blindsided by National. National is hardly radical; it is just aiming to manage things better than Labour. If Labour was to come out in favour of increased competition between State-run schools\u2014or State-run hospitals\u2014as a means of increasing education quality, which is something entirely consistent, I would have thought, with its principles, that it could easily outflank National and put it on the back foot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003ELabour, as currently structured, however, and as evidenced in this debate, has a situation where the privileged special interests that lurk amongst it\u2014the unionists, the teachers, the ex - student politicians\u2014have control of the party. It is predictable that these people are more concerned with preserving the current structures that privilege certain groups at the expense of the general public, but the policies are not, in my view, doing Labour a favour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EDuring this debate, National also confirmed what we have come to know, and that is that National is a party that is fundamentally conservative. It largely accepts the status quo and seeks to manage it better. There have been a few exceptions, such as National under Ruth Richardson, but people do not necessarily last if they are in that camp. We are seeing a sense of conservatism in National. From 2005 to 2007 Labour increased Government spending by over $7 billion. From 2009 to 2011\u2014and some of that period is covered by the Appropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill\u2014National will increase its spending by over $5 billion. It may be slowing down the progression to an even larger State, but it is certainly not reversing it. National is, and always will be, timid. That was evident in the selection of some of the Cabinet Ministers who were placed in various positions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cbdfdd485ad41ecad46f25bacae3212\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us which ones!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e1e983f7e9648afbda476196be126f3\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS\u003C/span\u003E: Do members want me to mention one or two? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bb6737780f248e0a5f58810d23da914\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Yes!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dc42c137e304ef8978b8ff5a4466828\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to do that if called on, but, on the other hand, I think it is self-evident who they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003ENational has become the political manager. It engages in political stunts and short-term opportunism. The cycleway, the Job Summit, and the housing insulation scheme are current examples of political expediency. The problem with such a tokenistic approach to politics is that people are smarter than most politicians think. People are well aware that in their private lives sacrifices are often made to improve their prospects in the future. People save to buy a house, and go without to get a tertiary education. The voting public grows weary as politicians continually try to massage the polls by adopting short-term, popular policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EI will finish by saying that, in many ways, I have been disappointed with the approach of the M\u0101ori Party, as well. It seems to me that the M\u0101ori Party, more than any other party, has the opportunity to help its people. Unfortunately, I think, too often it grandstands on one small issue after another. But I believe that M\u0101ori people rightly have very real grievances in some big issues. Let me very quickly take the example of superannuation. M\u0101ori people often pay into superannuation early, and they often retire but do not live as long as others. M\u0101ori people are not treated equally in terms of superannuation. That is the sort of big issue the M\u0101ori Party should bring to this House, because I think that if it was pushing that issue, it might just win.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022c33b84e4a41945a581109ae836e64bc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c33b84e4a41945a581109ae836e64bc7\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E When I spoke on Vote Health a couple of weeks ago, I shared with members the warning issued by the World Health Organization that in the past we have seen the social sectors robbed in times of economic downturn, with dire long-term consequences. Little did I know that now the picture would look even worse. We know now that the unemployment rate for M\u0101ori 15 to 24-year-olds was 20.8 percent for the year ended June 2009. That is up from 16.9 percent a year ago. In absolute numbers, that is an increase from 11,500 to 15,600. The M\u0101ori Party has received considerable expressions of concern from around the motu about the shock announcement in Budget 2009 that restricted eligibility for the training incentive allowance for tertiary study at level 4 and above. As we know, about 4,500 beneficiaries a year will be affected by the change. Beneficiaries already getting the allowance for university degrees will continue to do so for another 2 years, but anyone enrolling in new courses at level 4 or above since Budget day will not qualify. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe have to question the logic behind some of these changes. Sometimes it appears the Government is taking away with one hand and giving with another, and it is not always clear why. It is hard to understand the rationale for targeting solo parents or those on the invalids benefits doing tertiary courses, such as diplomas or university degrees. They are no longer eligible for support. It is hard to understand the cut to the Health and Disability Innovation Fund to help disabled people into employment. It is nigh on impossible to understand the reason for disestablishing from 2010 Skill Enhancement and, in particular, its very effective Rangatahi M\u0101ia programme. In a similar vein, we have many questions around why the adult literacy educator grants will now be significantly reduced and reprioritised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EOne of the more well-read lines in the coalition agreement negotiated between the M\u0101ori Party and the National Party pertains to the \u201Cagree to disagree\u201D provisions. We will continue to articulate our concerns when we see budget cuts. We will persist with the hard questions, and we have no qualms in doing so. To paraphrase the poet Alfred Lord Tennyson, ours is to reason why, not but to do and die. We have too much at stake to sit in this House and not hold each of us to account for the grim reality of the current economic situation. All of us must heed the warning of the Family Centre social policy research centre and Waikato University, which suggested earlier this week that New Zealand\u2019s baby boomers could end up living in poverty if critical issues of income, housing, and health are not addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAny one of us in the House could stand and report on the grim state of his or her electorate: the impact of rapidly rising power bills, the consequences of redundancy being realised in the increasing length of the queue lining up for food parcels, poor health, and compromised housing. But this is not the Charge of the Light Brigade. I will highlight some of the critical steps that are helping to lift our people out of these dire consequences. The groups I have met with appreciate the timely support of the Community Response Fund, designed to assist non-governmental organisations affected by the recession. With an announcement imminent any day, I know that many social service providers will be waiting eagerly to hear whether they will get the extra support necessary to help them cope with either a funding crisis or a significant increase in demand for their services. There is also the Community Max programme, led by my colleague Tariana Turia. It is fantastic to learn that over 250 community groups have already registered their interest in this programme. With the help of the M\u0101ori Party networks, we will make sure that that number grows. Other announcements have provided a source of comfort to many of our families as they negotiate difficult times. I am really proud of the work the M\u0101ori Party has done with the Minister of Housing to help draw attention to the need for social and affordable housing. I know that many of our families are keen to look further into the opportunity to build houses on multiple-owned M\u0101ori land that the Minister announced last week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EOf course, it is not all plain sailing. We have noted today the announcement of the Fresh Start package for young offenders. This issue arose during the select committee consideration of strategies to address the country\u2019s worst youth offenders. The M\u0101ori Party was concerned to read the submission to the Social Services Committee from Unicef, which advised: \u201CChildren are in danger of being victimised to respond to somewhat populist but ill considered proposals to satisfy the \u2018pitchfork and torches\u2019 mentality calling for more punitive, harder, harsher treatment of young offenders.\u201D I think it is of value to refer to the research of Lipsey, who developed a meta-analysis of 20 different studies of wilderness programmes involving more than 3,000 juvenile offenders. Lipsey found that programmes involving a combination of relatively intense physical activity and therapeutic enhancement\u2014such as individual counselling, family therapy, and group sessions\u2014were especially effective. The key theme across all of these studies is that rolling out national programmes based on inadequate evidence can do more harm than good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAlthough we are pleased with some of the projects that have been included in the package today, I want to end with a conclusion from a range of studies looking at mentoring high-risk minority youth, in particular the Brothers Project. That study concluded that caring adults make an important difference in the lives of vulnerable youth. There is a message in that for all of us. It seems to me that in a caring nation our priority would be to support and keep warm those people at the front line of our families, not to push them out into the cold. A caring nation would also be a nation in which we deal with the chronic levels of abuse and violence that keep occurring. I am pleased at the announcement that my colleague Tariana Turia made yesterday regarding the establishment of a high-level ministerial group to address family violence. At the end of the day, all of the infrastructure in the world, having all the assets in place, and all these economic developments will mean nought if our children are not able to reap the benefits. We must put the foundations in place to achieve the vision of well-being for all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003ESo in the debate on the Appropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill I want to plant the seed for future appropriations to work towards strategies to achieve the aspiration of wh\u0101nau ora. The achievement of wh\u0101nau ora has to be the most significant pathway to move us onwards from talk to action, and from a time of crisis to a focus on prevention. At its very heart, it is about restoring our homes to places of safety and love, where healthy partnerships are the norm. It is an aspiration that the M\u0101ori Party has firmly staked its future on. As a final word, I have to wonder at the value of the efforts that have gone into seeking the opportunity to smack, rather than thinking of more nurturing and loving alternatives. I would love to see a referendum that asks New Zealanders: \u201CDo you agree that the greatest gift of all we can give our children is the commitment that we will provide them with unconditional love, security, and safety?\u201D. That is a referendum I hope the whole nation could sign up to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00222d584c736af24112b7a584deef084ab9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d584c736af24112b7a584deef084ab9\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Following on from the speaker who has just resumed her seat, can I say that a caring nation is also a responsible nation. Caring families are also responsible families. That is why it is with such pleasure that I rise to speak on behalf of the Government in relation to the Appropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis is a caring Government that has produced a responsible Budget. Nothing could say that more than the fact that this Government has delivered on its election promises. It has, in the worst economic times we have seen in three generations, been able not only to deliver on those promises but also to increase spending in the areas where it was most needed, and at the same time have our credit rating saved despite all the doom and gloom talk from the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI will touch on just a couple of the things that I am most pleased about in this Budget, and they are in relation to corrections. This Government took over a Department of Corrections that had been seriously underfunded, in particular in relation to the probation service. This is an area that has come under increasing stress over the last some years, and the reason is that there are more and more community-programme sentences for the service to look after. We had an increasing offender population to deal with in community services, but, unfortunately, not sufficient funding. There was a small increase in the number of probation officers, but actually so much more was needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the things I found out when I came into Government was that the previous Minister, the Hon Phil Goff, had received an application from the Department of Corrections in September last year outlining just how critical the parole system and probation service were, and how there was a need for urgent funding. That request for help did not even get a reply. That was the service that we got to take over. We were left with the Auditor-General\u2019s report into the status of the parole system. It was a damning report. But in a very short period of time we have been able to work closely with the chief executive and the senior staff at the Department of Corrections, and, with a great deal of support from around the justice sector, we have been able to turn round the Community Probation and Psychological Services system that was in dire need. All of that required funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe are injecting a further $255.9 million into the probation service. I would like to thank my colleagues for the support they have given me in helping to turn this service round. Budget operating funding of $133.8 million over 4 years will enable Community Probation and Psychological Services to recruit an extra 134 probation officers, 26 front-line managers, and 20 psychologists, which will ensure that it can effectively manage almost 100,000 sentences and orders a year. These are good people who are doing their very best, many of whom are very well trained people who have come into the Community Probation and Psychological Services to do good work, and it is important that they get support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAnother $71.2 million operating funding has been approved over 4 years to recruit an extra 112 probation officers, three front-line managers, and three psychologists to improve the quality of parole and home-detention management. We cannot continue down the path of simply locking people up in jail for year after year, consistently increasing sentences, and sending out into the world people who are damaged by their time locked up in prison and who are certainly not made better people. It is appalling that we have gone down this track. We had years of it under the previous administration and it has to be brought to a close. We need to deal with the fact that we have 8,500 prisoners today locked up in our jails. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOur population in New Zealand is about 4 million. The population of Queensland, Australia\u2014not a state known for its soft-on-crime attitudes\u2014is about 4 million. We have 8,500 sentenced prisoners; Queensland has 4,500 prisoners. I think that says it all, really. We are locking people up and letting them come out of the prison service worse people than when they went in, not better. It is appalling for members of the previous Government ever to try to take any credit in the area of law and order, because they should not. Most of our prisoners have drug and alcohol problems. Many of them are addicts. Yet only 500 places were made available in our prison service for drug and alcohol treatment programmes. In the first 3 years of the John Key - led National Government we are doubling the number of treatment places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThat is 1,000 places, but it is still not enough. I note that the Green speakers have often said to me that we should have more. Well, we should, but we have to start somewhere. Not only that, but previously they have been available only to people near the end of their sentences and to people who have been sentenced to long sentences, not in fact to the people most likely to benefit\u2014in other words those who will be there for 2 years or less. The Department of Corrections has been working very hard on getting a programme available for people who are sentenced to a shorter term of imprisonment. I believe that that is great work from the Department of Corrections. I would like to thank its staff for all their support and the work they are doing, because they are particularly dedicated towards this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe also obviously have to increase the number of prison beds, because we will run out of them by February next year. As well, I found out to my horror that the previous Minister, the Hon Phil Goff, was advised of new projections in the prison population back in 2007, and that the Government of the day refused to accept the new projections because, clearly, they did not suit its rhetoric. We have therefore been left with a number of problems: an increasing prison population, people sentenced to very long sentences, very few drug and alcohol treatment programmes, and the situation of the prisoners we are sending back out into the community. We are having to fund $385.3 million over the next 4 years to make sure we have enough prison beds. This is a problem that we have inherited, but the Department of Corrections is working very well in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI now turn to the role of the New Zealand Police. I am one of those people who believe that the police have a huge job in the role of not only catching criminals but also preventing crime. One of the great things that members will have seen from the Prime Minister\u2019s announcements today on youth justice is the role of the New Zealand Police in running programmes to help young offenders and to get them back on to the straight and narrow. So many of the young offenders whom the police deal with come from homes where really nobody is responsible, and those young people are, in fact, victims of the homes and the families they come from. The police are the right people to be involved in the mix, to help bring those people around so they do not end up going down the inevitable pathway that they had before, of going through the system and into our adult prisons\u2014essentially going through the revolving door of a prison system that lets them come back time and time again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut apart from that, the police also need the tools to be able to catch the criminals. That is where the roll-out of digital radios is so important. Digital radios are already having an effect in the Wellington area, and I am very hopeful\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022012246422da8472a85295989f588a4ce\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right; very good. And it started in the Hutt!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c9d76f3744b48da9999079594813f27\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I am very pleased that the previous Government did some work on that; it is working well\u2014and it is good to hear from Mr Mallard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1e3c8e30fd44bf8a46638366066d180\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It started in the Hutt!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d65fb5bdbd144344bd9a5f768f667111\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: And we are funding it. We are also rolling out Tasers for the police. The police increasingly have to deal with methamphetamine-fuelled crime and violent criminals\u2014people who on a previous day might have had the armed offenders squad called out and could have been shot. The introduction of Tasers early next year will give the police another tool to deal with offenders in a way that is safe, secure, and, in the vast majority of cases, not life-threatening. That is a major breakthrough for the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI commend this legislation to the House. It is a pleasure to be part of the John Key - led Government and to work so well with our support parties in Government: the M\u0101ori Party, the ACT Party, and United Future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9504121eade49c1a5f615d549646342\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9504121eade49c1a5f615d549646342\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E It is always a pleasure to follow that Minister, Judith Collins. She made one of her usual, astounding speeches. I remind that Minister, through the Chair, that her party, only after the election, and despite the crocodile tears we see now, said how shameful it was that we have the second-highest incarceration rate in the world\u2014and it is shameful. It was the National Party in Opposition, though, that said the previous Labour Government was not locking up enough criminals. It was the National Party in Opposition that said the Labour Government was soft on crime. It was the National Party in Opposition that talked about flat-screen TVs, but I have now been around to 12 of our 20-plus prisons, and I have not found one. I have not been shown one. No manager in a prison that I have been into\u2014and I have been to over half of them\u2014has shown me one, and I have asked, where these flat-screen TVs are, apart from showing me the data screens in the central control unit, where they actually observe prisoners and protect prison officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESecondly, this was the Opposition, of course, who said we were not locking up enough people. This was the now Minister and her ilk who said before the election that prisons were \u201CHotel Hiltons\u201D\u2014I think one of the expressions was\u2014and that they were all holiday camps. So I was then astounded to see the Minister walk into the Law and Order Committee with a photo of a cell\u2014I believe it may have been at Mount Crawford or Mount Eden\u2014and say: \u201CThis is terrible. Look at what these poor prisoners have to put up with. We want to give them flash containers. It is terrible that prisoners are treated in such a way.\u201D She said that after the election. So unless there has been a sort of road to Damascus experience for that Minister, or unless some medical miracle or miracle of technology has happened that I do not particularly know about in respect of her personality, it is the usual from Judith Collins. She said before the election that we were not tough enough and that we were not locking up enough of them, but now she comes to the Chamber and wrings her hands about how terrible it is that the incarceration rate is so high. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EShe went on to say that the police, whom she is proud of\u2014indeed, I am very proud of them; I think that every New Zealander is proud of our police force\u2014need adequate resources to fight crime. But did she mention the 343 cars that she has required to be cut out of the police vehicle fleet? Did that Minister at any stage say that she has required a $21 million cut in the police budget? Howard Broad, the Commissioner of Police, confirmed that for us before the Law and Order Committee when I asked him: \u201CCommissioner Broad, if police do not have vehicles, aren\u2019t we going to have a rerun of the 1990s, where the police, under that crew over there when they were in Government, had to wait for an hour to get a car to go on a call-out? Will there not be a greater risk of degradation in response rates, a longer time to respond to crime, because\u201D\u2014and he agreed with me\u2014\u201Cthat is what happened under the National Government of the 1990s?\u201D. He went so far as to say: \u201CYes, there is indeed an additional risk to those response times and to those service levels.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut did we hear the boastful Minister talk about that? Did we hear her say that on the one hand\u2014I think we did\u2014she had given 43 police cars to the fleet, but that on the other hand she had required 343 cars to be taken out of the fleet? She says \u201CWell, that is only non - front-line vehicles.\u201D But I have not met a police officer or a police manager, and I have questioned a number of them, who can identify for me a non - front-line vehicle. I went to a police station the other day and I asked one of the officers: \u201CWhich of the fleet in the car park, mate, are non-frontline vehicles?\u201D The police officer said that all of them were front line. Yet this Minister has stood up and said that the police need\u2014as they do\u2014adequate resources to fight crime. So does that mean a situation, as we had in the 1990s, where the community constable\u2019s car is non - front-line? When the community constable identifies the shoplifter, the bank robber, or whoever, and the offender jumps into a fast car to get away, the community constable\u2014as they had to do in the 1990s when that Government pulled this trick on the community the first time\u2014will have to thumb a ride or get a cab. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIs the community constable\u2019s car non - front-line? Is the youth aid officer\u2019s car at the Kaiapoi police station in my electorate, a car that has now gone? Is the youth aid officer\u2019s car non - front-line? So when we have a spike or movement in youth crime because the youth aid officer cannot get a vehicle to go and deal with young people in a rehabilitative sense, or on occasion to go and chase them up and put the cuffs on, will that Minister stand up and take responsibility? Oh, no. I challenged that Minister at the select committee. I said: \u201CIf there is degradation in service and in response times for police because you as Minister have required a cut of $21 million out of the police budget, and a cut of 343 cars, will you as Minister take responsibility for that?\u201D. Do members know what the answer was? She said: \u201COh, that\u2019s an operational matter.\u201D She said that it was an operational matter. Oh, but it was not an operational matter when she spoke in the first police bulletin for which she was interviewed as Minister\u2014when she said she had no problem in wading into the police\u2019s operational authority to tell them she wanted her policies implemented, as in where to put 300 extra police, and we will get to that fudged number in a minute. Yet she now says: \u201COh, no, it\u2019s operational.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I then said to the Minister: \u201CHang on, if you had given the police an extra $21 million and there had been a wonderful increase in the level of service, I\u2019m sure that wouldn\u2019t have been an operational matter.\u201D I am sure the boastful Minister would want to come to the House and take credit for that. There is silence. It is operational when it is bad news; but she takes credit for what happened under a Labour Government. She puts out a press statement on every police station she has opened in the last 6 to 9 months and the last line of the press statement states: \u201CThis demonstrates the National Party\u2019s commitment to the police in fighting crime.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022637fd64e4c8b4f00856b5a4fb3d309ad\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286b44ae334514c4097f9438b60640e9c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I can anticipate what Darren Hughes is going to ask: \u201CWeren\u2019t all those police stations budgeted for and funded under the last Government?\u201D. But that is not \u201Coperational\u201D is it, because this boastful Minister takes credit for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we come to the notion of 600 extra police, which is the Minister\u2019s stated commitment. It is interesting because she unpicked herself before the Law and Order Committee. We finally got out of her that there will not be 600 additional police over and above the 1,200 staff put in place and funded by the last Labour Government. And how can I prove the great lie that keeps being perpetrated in this House that these people are unfunded? The problem with that is that over 40 of them were recruited under the last Budget of the last Labour Government. They were recruited, and they have to be funded to be recruited. She unpicked herself before the select committee because we finally got out of her that it is not an extra 600 police, it is an extra 240 over and above the 1,250 whom we put in place. If we add the two figures together it is 600, but half of them were provided for and funded from the last Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe boastful Minister gets up and plays fast and loose with the facts and the truth. This is a Minister who thrives on selectively doling out information. This is a Government that has put a Budget together and now every week we lose 2,000 extra people on to the dole queue. The Prime Minister criticised Phil Goff and others on our side for saying, before the latest unemployment figures came out, that the figure was 1,300; now we know it is 2,000. Added to that are the 2,800-plus young apprentices who lost their jobs part-way through their apprenticeships, and Government members crow that through their Job Ops scheme they are doing something about youth unemployment! Well, we know about that. There are 9,000 16-to-24-year-olds who will get 6 months, maybe at \u201CMcD\u2019s\u201D, flipping the old Big Mac\u2014I am sure Gerry will line up for one of those. Then what happens to those young people? They will be back on the scrap heap. What happens to the 49,000 other 16 to 24-year-olds who are not catered for under the Job Ops scheme that Mr Ryall and Ms Collins boast about? They get nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen there is also a different sector. Unlike in the 1990s, for the first time under this awful recession there are middle-class folk who were qualified and have worked hard all their working lives, who never thought they would lose their job\u2014they thought they were in a stable position; they thought they had a career right through life\u2014who are losing their jobs. Suddenly that quartile of people\u2014a new quartile, a new sector of people\u2014are losing their jobs and they do not quite know what to do. And this Government is doing nothing for them\u2014not a thing. But Government members get up and talk about this Budget, after they have gutted superannuation and KiwiSaver, and tinkered around the edges of health. They gutted special-needs funding and then reversed that. Mrs Tolley is so proud of the fact that she reversed a $2.5 million cut that sold young kiddies with cerebral palsy down the river. She reversed it after weeks and months of stress for the families. That is the biggest $2.5 million \u201Clet\u2019s get it off the front page\u201D strategy of any Government in history. Then she sold those people out again by saying that if the children changed schools their funding was gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022125841e9b48140af80b72bdcdf4d1d0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022125841e9b48140af80b72bdcdf4d1d0d\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E It was very interesting to hear the member opposite Clayton Cosgrove talk about policies for middle-class people who have lost their jobs. The one policy we have heard from the Labour Party this year is that millionaires who lose their jobs should get welfare entitlement. That is what we heard from the members opposite and that is what Phil Goff said. It is the one policy idea we have heard from the Labour Party this year. The other idea is that we can borrow our way out of this recession; whatever we want, we can just borrow. That is what the Labour Party says. It is completely unaware that eventually everything needs to be paid off, and Labour has no record whatsoever for dealing with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EI am pleased to be following the Hon Judith Collins, the Minister of Police and the Minister of Corrections, in this debate. She is a Minister of Police who will deliver an extra 600 front-line police officers for New Zealand\u2014many of them into South Auckland, where they are desperately needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255bd926e2d25494b8a6a1e04726b4ab8\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the transcript of the Law and Order Committee estimates hearing where the Minister admits that what the member said is not the case. It will not be 600.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c6b5749e9a3461dbf7d694ea506324a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283087e4b3056426a86e8d9f6f8b303e4\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t like the truth, do you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e41862d5debe4eecb23531157cef85db\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, it is Labour members who do not like the truth. They do not like the fact that violent crime in this country increased dramatically under the previous Labour Government. They do not like the fact that our police force became completely disenchanted and disconnected because of the leadership of that failed party opposite. They do not like the fact that this Government is serious about dealing with violent crime and keeping criminals behind bars, where they belong, so that we can keep our streets and communities safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the dreadful problems that we inherited in the New Zealand public health system. We inherited a public health system tracking towards financial crisis. We found that district health boards were delivering about $160 million of unfunded services. That is a deficit, and we are expecting it to go up to over $200 million next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022227e909c520249e58c05602a46768389\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: So you\u2019re going to cut that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a711257c5f044554bad8e2d01355479a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Mr\u2014what is his name\u2014Hughes, who used to be the MP for \u014Ctaki and was defeated, asks \u201CWhat about the cuts?\u201D. I will tell him about the cuts. He was a whip in a Government that weeks before the 2008 election cut $150 million out of the health budget and never put out a press statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022401968a5b39647618b1d4adaf4b02b6b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Not true!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cac75abb9494b61842547c5a7278a59\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: That is what previous Government members did. If we look at the estimates, we see that they cut $50 million out of health for this year and another $50 million out of the next year. Altogether, $150 million was cut out of the public health budget. We also inherited $600 million of capital infrastructure claims for beds and wards but next to no money to pay for them. It is just dreadful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe worst part of the health system we inherited was the workforce crisis. We simply did not have enough doctors and nurses engaged in the running of our public health service. [Interruption] The previous Government did about 55 reports over 9 years. It never actually dealt with the problem, but it decided to set up another committee. That committee had endless reports, those reports spurred further reports that needed to be dealt with, and we ended up having 55 health reports. This Government took decisive action to encourage our young doctors, nurses, and midwives to stay in New Zealand. We introduced a voluntary bonding scheme that says to our young midwives, nurses, and doctors that if they stay in the country for 3 to 5 years after they graduate, we will write off their student loans or give them a cash incentive sufficient that after 5 years working in New Zealand in a hard-to-staff area or in a specialty, their loans will be paid off. That scheme has had a huge response. We originally thought we would get about 100 doctors and 250 nurses and midwives wanting to enter the scheme. We ended up getting 950 young New Zealanders wanting to be in the voluntary bonding scheme. I went to the Prime Minister and I said \u201CPrime Minister, we have money for 350; I have 950.\u201D The Prime Minister, John Key, said \u201CWe\u2019ll take every single one of those people who want to be in the voluntary bonding scheme.\u201D, and we had to find resources in the health sector to pay for that. We are bringing in policies to keep those young people in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThis Budget deserves the support of New Zealanders because half of all new spending pledged in it goes to health. Health got half the new money, and the other 30 departments and Ministers got the other half. That demonstrates the strong commitment and leadership that John Key and Bill English have towards the New Zealand public health service. We have $750 million of new health initiatives being funded in this Budget. That shows that this Government is committed to dealing with the crisis in health that we inherited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWhat have we spent some of that money on? Do members know that there are no more general practitioners working in the country today than there were 9 years ago? Despite doubling the health budget and putting a huge amount of money into tertiary education, there are no more general practitioners today than there were 9 years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282d372df76004dd6a873849e54a1e98b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a mark of Labour failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd0b7c92600944679335c68d2c73c69e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: That is a real failure by the previous Labour Government. So what are we doing? There are 60 new medical training places in 2009-10, which is the first tranche of the additional 200 new places annually that we will be producing. There will be 25 extra places this year for general practitioner training, increasing to 52 extra places next year. We have set aside $70 million over the next 4 years to train the additional health professionals we need to help support New Zealand\u2019s move to dedicated elective surgery capacity in the next few years. We have also put more money into training for health professionals in rural areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe Government has put a huge amount of money into district health boards\u2014$2.1 billion over the next 4 years, $536 million this year. We get little Opposition spokespeople jumping up and saying we have cut $500,000 here and $300,000 there. That is what Labour members tell me I have done, but in fact the Government has put $536 million extra into district health boards this year. It is the single biggest input into district health board funding that there has ever been. We are working diligently with the health sector to improve services for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWe have put in an extra $40 million to increase the length of stay in hospital for New Zealand mums. New Zealand mums made it very clear that they were sick and tired of having problems thrown at them, such as when Wellington Hospital was planning to give $100 Pak \u2019N Save vouchers to young mums if they got out of the hospital within 6 hours. That is what was planned under Labour. Did the Minister stop it? No; it was going to happen. Did the National Opposition stop it by blowing the whistle? Yes. The hospital was going to give young mums $100\u2014[Interruption] It might interest Mr Hughes eventually. Does Mr Hughes support that plan? Yes, his head is nodding. We do not support that on this side of the House. We want to have longer stays in birthing facilities. We want improved support services for parents. We are funding 24-hour PlunketLine. Why would Helen Clark not fund 24-hour PlunketLine when she promised she would in 1999? National is funding it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWe are doing a lot more. Why is the Labour Party opposed to an extra $15 million this year for hospices? Why is Labour opposed to me contributing $100 million to the home insulation fund? When the Government announced that health was contributing $100 million to the home insulation fund, Ruth Dyson said it was a cut to the health budget. One move that will make a huge difference to respiratory disease in New Zealand and keep kids out of hospital was opposed by that party opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u002225705217658341118968300e53c3484e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225705217658341118968300e53c3484e\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The member who has just resumed his seat, Tony Ryall, has battled humility all his life but appears to be winning the battle. He appears to be getting there. He is also a former Acting Prime Minister of New Zealand. I wondered why he was so busy ingratiating himself to Judith Collins, because she has never struck me as being a particularly popular member of the National caucus, but then the reason was revealed to me: Tony Ryall has been invoiced for the expense of the Diplomatic Protection Squad that was tailing him around the Bay of Plenty while he was the Acting Prime Minister. Judith Collins has said it was a waste of public money\u2014she is such a hard-liner on these things\u2014and she has charged Tony Ryall for the services of the Diplomatic Protection Squad during his tenure as Acting Prime Minister of our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EIt was not a very good tenure\u2014not that anyone will be too shocked to hear that. During Tony Ryall\u2019s grand moment, when his address to the country was all about a new shirt and tie, at the very same moment, on typewriters around this country, the Dominion Post was labelling him the loser of the week. The New Zealand Herald was writing stories about him saying he was fudging the health numbers, and we saw evidence of that in his speech before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EOne of the things Tony Ryall was complaining about was the number of committees and reviews the previous Labour Government set up, but, as the Hon Annette King told the House, this Government has initiated 40 reviews after just 8 months. That is a lot of Tories being appointed to do a lot of jobs, if you ask me, yet the Minister Tony Ryall in his other portfolio of State services set up a scheme that he said would redeploy State servants who lost their jobs. Obviously, when people are losing their jobs, first and foremost is what we can do about that. He said 1,500 people who had lost their jobs would be available to be redeployed across the State sector. Well, Labour thought that was quite interesting, so the Labour spokesperson on State services, my colleague the Wellington Central MP, Grant Robertson, went and found out exactly how many people had actually been redeployed. Out of the 1,500 people who could be redeployed over the State sector, Tony Ryall has managed to find jobs for two people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae2d574a6026472fa3cef78170648a51\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Two!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022050fbf880ad2425a965a49213be0c7f3\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Just two out of 1,500. So when Tony Ryall is lecturing Labour about committees and reviews, he needs to know that his own policy is spin. Two people have been redeployed out of 1,500. Mind you, we did not count the police officers who were redeployed from the front line to tail him around as Acting Prime Minister of our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003ELet us not worry too much about Tony Ryall. In this Budget debate Labour is focusing very closely on the message that the Government is not listening, that the Government has gimmicks for the real problems of our country, and that the Government has no plan for the real problems and challenges that New Zealand faces. There has been nothing from the Government in this Budget debate on how to lift up the New Zealand economy by several gears in order to get it going for the recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EWe see all around the world signs that a recovery is under way. It will come to New Zealand, and whereabouts is the National Government in New Zealand doing any work or coming up with any creative ideas in order to try to harness those opportunities for New Zealand? There are none. There are gimmicks everywhere. There are half initiatives everywhere. The cycleway is the greatest gimmick of them all, and it keeps changing in terms of its nature. All National\u2019s initiatives are half-pie, half-thought-out, and not really focused on what matters for the people of New Zealand. The Government cannot get its act together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EOn the issue of M\u0101ori representation in Auckland\u2014and the Leader of the Opposition has moved an amendment to the legislation, criticising the Government for the way it has behaved in pre-empting the select committee process\u2014the Government is all at sea. The Hon Georgina te Heuheu once acted with great honour on the question of M\u0101ori seats on councils in the Bay of Plenty. When the previous speaker, Mr Ryall, said M\u0101ori seats were racist, she acted with a great deal of honour and crossed the floor in order to support M\u0101ori representation. Today she said that she did so only because she lives close to the area of those seats. That is not a very credible argument. It is amazing the difference a Crown car can make to a member\u2019s position on an important issue like M\u0101ori representation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EWe know that options were put to the ACT Party so that there would be one person, one vote, which ACT members say is the No. 1 argument for them. There is no reason to deny M\u0101ori in Auckland the right to representation like any other Aucklander by way of the new super-city that is being set up. Denying the M\u0101ori seats is all about the personality and ego of the ACT Party, and not at all about the needs of the people for representation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI feel sorry for parties in this House that have been let down by National, which is running a sham consultation. Let us remember what National has done. It put through a bill under urgency, and then said the select committee would be the point at which the Government would listen. Then it made the Associate Minister of Local Government, John Carter\u2014the guy who does all the work\u2014the chairperson of the select committee. When the most contentious issue about the council\u2014the question of M\u0101ori seats\u2014came up, National decided to pre-empt the select committee process and abandon M\u0101ori representation. The Government said that is democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe Government does not listen. That is all it has to do\u2014listen to the arguments, give people a chance to have their say, and then make a call. In the end we have to respect that the Government gets the final call, but to not even listen is unbelievable arrogance, particularly when we were told that everything was going to change. National said it would listen if it became the Government. The nanny State would be gone when National became the Government. Actually, there are more rules about how to run one\u2019s life now under National than there were under Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EOf all the things that were done under the Labour Government that National complained about, not one has been reversed. In fact, Gerry had to try to reopen an incandescent light bulb factory because the bulbs are not being made any more. Steven Joyce put up his hand because he is the guy who wants to charge us 80 bucks to talk on our cellphone, which is the most expensive mobile termination rate that a Minister for Communications and Information Technology could ever come up with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EWhat else is the Government doing? It is looking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dbd84ebc811408a870764c9a8193ec0\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Shower heads\u2014what about shower heads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022012ef472773f4127bb3895408022ec94\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will tell members something about shower heads. That member should take a shower, because he will get 3 years, 6 years, or 9 years at the end of this parliamentary term. If ever there has been a one-term wonder, it is Paul Quinn. If I were him I would not be asking for an early shower quite so soon, as his is not going to be a glittering and distinguished parliamentary career. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EWhat is the National Government doing? The National Government is saying it wants to change tax policy. It is true that those members are always focused on tax. You know, they campaigned on the issue of cutting income tax, and they came in before their parliamentary\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022519dd73d07e445c59437e24c656befe1\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member. Barracking is unacceptable. Interjecting across the floor is OK, but that noise was not acceptable. Members need to keep the noise level down. I am sorry to interrupt the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e612f60cb98a4dd6984673678c9b4cd0\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. While you are at it, I think that saying: \u201CYou have done nothing with your life.\u201D is also out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9c60d7386c64650bfd0f3981049df32\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would hope that I have done something with my life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4b9618db0324885955c7e5f881fb3c6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: We know you have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf652a1ebd654cf99f07969cb42324a3\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is amazing how one can touch a few nerves in this place from time to time. I think we might have just done something along those lines. In fact, if the member Paul Quinn wanted to get some publicity for himself, all it would take is for four members of the National Party out of 58 to vote for M\u0101ori seats and we would have the seats. Labour has 43 votes, the Progressive party has one, the Greens have nine, and the M\u0101ori Party has five. We need only four National MPs to vote for M\u0101ori seats and there would be M\u0101ori representation in Auckland. We could have Georgina te Heuheu and Tau Henare, and we need to get Hekia Parata and Paul Quinn. He could have his 5 minutes in the sun on this issue. Actually, he would probably stuff it up and get only 2 minutes in the sun, but publicity is something. The member would be keen on it. All we would need is the four votes to be able to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003ENational campaigned on tax. National was going to cut taxes, and initially it did. The top 3 percent of income earners got one-third of the value. Then, in the Budget, which we are debating here, National put taxes back up for the people who had voted for it to bring down taxes. Now National members are running round the country wanting to put GST up to 20 percent. Well, how does that help working families in this current economy? It does not help them at all. National wants to put GST up to 20 percent. Its second option is a friendlier 15 percent. That is the kind of bright, friendly face that the National Government has\u2014wanting to put up GST. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EAt the moment the rates bills are going out around our country, and people will be applying for a rates rebate, which is a scheme of the third Labour Government that was improved and made better by the fifth Labour Government. The value of that rates rebate will be totally undermined three, four, or five times over if pensioners have to pay higher GST, as the National Government proposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EEverywhere we go we find that the Government is not listening. It is not listening in the area of transport. The Government has taken a plan for Auckland that was comprehensive, funded, costed, and ready to go, and it did not listen. At the moment in my area, in Kapiti, the Government is doing the same old trick. At the last election I campaigned on Transmission Gully, Western Link Road, electrifying the railway line to Palmerston North, and doing something to sort out peak weekend traffic at the \u014Ctaki roundabout, where the major retail centre is causing congestion at that time. The National Party said \u201CMe too!\u201D and campaigned on the same thing. Yet now National has got into Government, for the whole year while the council was working on those options it had the Transport Agency working behind the council\u2019s back on an alternative plan for Kapiti that no one had seen, and which the Government turned up with on Monday. Consultation on the plan started on Monday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe proposed motorway does not include Western Link Road and it does not include one extra dollar for trains. The proposed motorway rips through the communities of Kapiti and totally bypasses \u014Ctaki. Do members know how long the Government, which said it would listen, is giving people to have a say about the plan? Six miserable weeks. It is a scheme that no one had heard of, and people have to decide in 6 weeks whether they lose their house. [Interruption] National members might be yelling at the moment, but I know that they have so many homes individually that if their home was run over by a motorway they would just shift to another home. I know that they do not understand the problems of working families. But the people of Kapiti have only one house to live in, and if a road\u2014a four-lane, 100-kilometre motorway\u2014goes through it, then they cannot simply shift to another home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThat is an example of National members\u2019 arrogance. If the Minister thinks he will get away with the plan, which is wiping out our community overnight in this way, then he is sadly mistaken, because people want to have a say on it. They want the right to be able to put up a plan, and National should have campaigned on the proposed motorway, if that is what it wanted to do. We have experience with this Minister, because he did the same with the Waterview Connection as well. National campaigned on it, got into office, and then wanted to rip through houses all around the place and take away the homes of working families there as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe Government is not listening. It is focused on gimmicks that do not matter\u2014like cycleways\u2014and it has no plan to take the New Zealand economy up a step in order to give real opportunity to people. That is why we are opposing the Budget bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u0022294cbd88efca4175ac14bb4eb027807b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022294cbd88efca4175ac14bb4eb027807b\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E There we have it, do we not? That was Mr Darren Hughes, the failed candidate and former member of Parliament for \u014Ctaki. He says that the terrible thing about National is that we have a plan for \u014Ctaki that we are willing to go out and consult on. He says that that is a terrible thing. What he forgets, of course, is that in the 9 years under the previous Labour Government, there was no proposal and nothing to consult on at all. That is exactly the reason why he lost his seat. That is what the voters have said to him. I would ask Mr Darren Hughes why he does not go and talk to his deputy leader. Surely he could do a trade with her and get her seat, because he will never get back in \u014Ctaki. I tell Darren to shift. He should shift to a better opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ENational had to deliver its Budget 2009 in the most challenging circumstances since\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4ad373a0274054a091b5a1db770087\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, give it a break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0e266646cf401a9090c37460eb2d16\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: There we are. The member is disconnected from reality, completely disconnected from reality. \u201CRecession? What recession?\u201D, he says. Should that affect the Government accounts? Oh no, it is nothing to do with that, just borrow a bit more and it will all be solved! That is the approach that we have grown to expect from Labour, and the public saw through it precisely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe National Government had to deliver a Budget in extremely difficult circumstances. I will say this about the last 9 years under a Labour Government. During that period of time New Zealand\u2019s productivity growth was virtually zero\u2014virtually zero. That is why we continue to decline down the OECD ratings. Yes, the Labour Government paid off a bit of debt. How did it do that? It paid off the debt by not giving a single tax cut during the whole of the 9 years, and the public got sick of that. The public were hanging out for that tax cut, and that is why there had to be a change. Labour\u2019s solution, to the extent that one could discern a solution from the incoherent ramblings of members on that side of the House, is to borrow more, to have more Government programmes, to have more borrowing, and to have more Government-created schemes. It was to have a continuing growth of government. I say to members opposite that during Labour\u2019s 9 years in office it did have a continuing growth in government. The consequence was a decline in productivity output. That is an indictment of those members\u2019 failure. New Zealanders fundamentally saw through that, and that is the reason for the change of Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI will turn to a couple of specific points around productivity. We have focused on this issue more than on anything else, and the reason is that we are focused on growth. Yes, we did provide a tax reduction. We had to do that to get more growth into the economy and to stabilise the effects of the recession, which, I might add, had started under Labour in early 2008. That is the difference between us and Australia. We have a more constructive approach to growth than Labour had here, and the current Labor Government in Australia inherited a more constructive approach from the Howard administration. We inherited difficult circumstances. The Rudd Government inherited circumstances that were fundamentally more positive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EWe are focusing on reducing the size of government in a practical and considered kind of way. We have focused on reducing taxes, and in a very difficult set of circumstances we will restrain the growth of debt. It is clear that debt will grow over the next few years, undoubtedly, and I certainly concede that. We have to allow that to sustain a certain level of activity within the economy. The fundamental difference, however, is that we are taking a moderated approach to that. We are also concentrating that extra borrowing into infrastructure. I know that Mr Joyce would want me to mention the National Government policy on broadband, for instance. It is hugely important as a driver of productivity. He would want me to focus on issues around transport. It is hugely important to get more effective transport. That reminds me yet again of Mr Darren Hughes\u2019 signal failure as a member of Parliament for \u014Ctaki to deliver good outcomes for his electorate, and the public there made a judgment on that. So I say to Mr Hughes that he should talk to his deputy leader, encourage her to shift aside, and then go for her seat. It might give him a better opportunity and a more sustainable future in politics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI will talk about two particular issues that are directly relevant to the portfolios I am responsible for. The first one is research, science, and technology. I will focus on that issue in particular because it is right at the heart of the productivity machine in New Zealand. We as a Government had to make some very careful choices as to where we put in extra funding. We heard from Mr Ryall about health, which is fundamental to people\u2019s confidence in their country and in their own personal well-being. Research, science, and technology are part of the productivity growth machine. We specifically focused on fundamental research as our first priority. We increased the Marsden Fund from $37 million to $47 million. That is a 24 percent increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280b1b97c06b3499ea05ed1b3489cb495\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Robbing Peter to pay Paul.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc740b5b11cc4e13a2f1a37e1a119ca7\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: The member should just listen to the figures. There was a 24 percent increase to fundamental research funding. The second element of fundamental research we focused on was the Crown research institute capability fund. We increased that from $51 million to $61 million, which is a 20 percent increase. The increase gives much more confidence to those Crown research institutes that they have a platform from which to grow. Thirdly, in the area of fundamental research, the Health Research Council of New Zealand has grown from $63 million to $71 million, which is a 13 percent increase. Obviously, that research funding is part and parcel of our overall objectives in health funding generally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EWhy did we focus on fundamental research? Fundamental research underpins economic growth. That is the first phase of our delivery. The next phase of our delivery will be looking over the next 12 months, in particular, at the commercialisation process. The Prime Minister\u2019s chief science adviser, Sir Peter Gluckman, is also particularly focused on that issue. Over the next few months the commercialisation process will be the very particular focus of our research, science, and technology policy, because we understand\u2014unlike members on the other side, who had 9 years in which to deal with these issues but simply took an ad hoc approach of bolting on extra policies to make it more complex and more complicated\u2014that this country needs to do better, especially in research, science, and technology. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe other vote I am responsible for is Vote Defence. By and large, there is a multiparty consensus on foreign policy and defence. I realise that there are some differences, because inherently we are a Parliament of parties, but by and large there is a high level of consensus around these things. Our deployments are particularly in the Pacific but also in Afghanistan, where I think every party acknowledges there is a challenge and that New Zealand has a particular role to play. I know there are some divergences as to how that role should be carried out, but, by and large, people accept that there is a proper role for us to play there. We have to deal with those issues, because it is about New Zealand\u2019s security. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ETherefore, Vote Defence was increased by $52 million. I advise members that $15 million was in relation to infrastructure; $10 million was in relation to increased activity and maintenance for aircraft, which is inherent in operations of the New Zealand Defence Force; and an extra $5 million went to the new Project Protector. I acknowledge the previous Ministers of Defence for their initiative in relation to Project Protector. Although one has to note that HMNZS Canterbury has been problematic, the Defence Force is improving it. It has a truly excellent commanding officer, and there is a make-work programme to fix it. But there is a fundamental lesson about HMNZS Canterbury. A small Defence Force like New Zealand\u2019s simply cannot go for one-off projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00220bf9d56bb4f347b694fbfcddc933acfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bf9d56bb4f347b694fbfcddc933acfd\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Last Sunday I spoke at a migrant forum at the New Zealand Diversity Forum in Wellington, which was sponsored by the Human Rights Commission. I spoke alongside two colleagues, Darien Fenton from the Labour Party and Jackie Blue from the National Party. There was a big crowd there, particularly of migrant workers who are here on temporary visas. In the midst of the recession in New Zealand, migrant workers are having a lot of problems with staying in the country when they lose their jobs. According to this morning\u2019s New Zealand Herald, 38,000 people are here on what are called work-tested temporary visas. They are skilled people. We need the people who come to our country to replace the skills we are short of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe Government has been under a lot of pressure because of stories in the newspaper about particularly hurtful situations of families of migrant workers here in New Zealand. The Government has conceded a bit. If people are working on a 90-day probationary period and are laid off in the middle of it, they are given up to 3 months to get their affairs in order and leave the country. We were told at the forum that Immigration New Zealand will offer some assistance to people who are laid off and whose work visa expires. If those people talk to the Immigration Service nicely they do not necessarily have to get out of the country the next week. But this is a huge issue, and I do not think the Government has taken full responsibility for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAlso in this morning\u2019s New Zealand Herald the Minister of Immigration, Dr Coleman, is quoted as saying that migrant workers come here knowing that there is no automatic renewal of their work visa. Although that is technically correct, I do not think it takes into account the real responsibility New Zealand has to migrant workers, on two levels. One is the simple moral level of not hurting people who come to our country in good faith because they like New Zealand, because it is a country they would like to settle down in, and because a work visa is a way in. The second, practical level is that instead of viewing such people as people whom we are helping by giving them a job, we should view them as skilled people who are coming here because we need them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWhy did New Zealand bring these people here? Why did New Zealand need them? There are two reasons. First, there is quite a big outflow of New Zealanders migrating to Australia and beyond. Those New Zealanders are often very skilled people, and we need to replace those skills with temporary workers. Secondly, sometimes because of deficiencies in our system\u2014when the apprenticeships schemes were run down in the 1990s, in particular\u2014there has been a shortage of skilled workers. We have had to replace them with migrant workers, who then want to live here and become full New Zealand citizens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EA lot of these people have uprooted themselves and their whole family from the other side of the world and at great cost to come here\u2014sometimes spending all their life savings\u2014and have a fairly good expectation that they can get work visas, can work towards residence, and be able to become full participants in our society in every sense. They are doing that to help us, so we should feel the human tragedy of the people who have been laid off in the recession. We should not develop a first-class or second-class citizenship attitude that somehow we who have been here for a long time are the true New Zealanders and that migrants are just temporary workers, so we can kick them out when there is a recession. Sometimes a racist element can creep in there, as a lot of the people who are in this situation are non-European and are perhaps seen as having fewer rights. We should not have any of that; we should see everyone living in this country as being fully equal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWhat are some of the solutions that would take into account the real needs of those workers? One solution that was very strongly pressed for at the forum was the extension of their visas\u2014say, for a 12-month period\u2014for a number of reasons. A solution is to allow them to find other employment, and also just to help them. There is also a good, practical reason for New Zealand to help them. After we have gone through a recession, there is generally an upturn. There is talk already that perhaps an upturn has begun.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d0c67eae88043ca97a98013056a3755\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE\u003C/span\u003E: Before the dinner break I was saying that it would be useful to give migrants here on work visas who are laid off because of the recession an extension on their work visas. I said that 12 months would be a good figure, and it was what was pressed for at the migrant forum I attended last Sunday. This is also a practical measure for New Zealand, because when there is an upturn we will need skilled labour. The construction industry will expand, and we do not want to have to go through the hassle of recruiting people with the same skills from overseas when we could have kept people with those skills here. We could also look, possibly in the interim, at giving migrants openings in other jobs, such as caregiving. There is a shortage of skilled caregivers in rest homes. We could give a little bit of retraining to keep them in the country, so that they and their families do not suffer a huge disadvantage after they have packed up all their worldly goods to come out here, only to then have to go back somewhere else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI also think it is important to treat the children of migrants well, according to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, and to not deny them anything because they happen to be the kids of migrant workers in a disadvantaged situation. We should give them proper health and education. In fact, under the Immigration Bill, which is currently before this Parliament, schools will be able to take on, without any cost, all kids who are in compulsory education. That will be a step forward, and it is one of the good things in that bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIn terms of support for new migrants and those on work visas, the Government should also support, not cut back, the funding for courses teaching English as a second language that it has cut recently. We need proper support for migrants so that they can be fully part of and integrate into our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWith regard to the Immigration Service, a catch-22 came up at the forum I spoke at. Workers go to employers and say that they want a job, and employers say that, as they will be on a work visa for only so long, they will give them only a fixed-term contract if they get a work visa. Workers then go to New Zealand Immigration, which says that because those workers are on only a fixed-term contract, it will not give them a work visa. The Immigration Service has to take a better position. It has to look at the totality of the situation and give out work visas where there is a genuine commitment between the employer and the intending worker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe other issue that came up at the forum is a lot of professionals are still not getting the appropriate attention. Doctors are finding it hard to get jobs because of a more restrictive attitude towards registration from the Medical Council of New Zealand. Similarly, nurses are suffering some problems because of restrictions by the Nurses Organisation, affecting, particularly, Filipino nurses. Filipino workers predominated at the forum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EOn Monday I attended another event where I came across a number of other Filipino workers. They had predominated at the migrant forum I attended in Wellington on Sunday, and they were also very strongly represented in the protest action taken by the employees of Telecom who are to be kicked out of their status as employees to become contractors. These Filipino workers, these new migrant workers, are the last to be able to afford to be moved under contractor status. This is effectively happening under Telecom, even though it is being done through another organisation called Visionstream. In order to become contractors and do that essential repair work on the fixed lines so we can have a good service, they have to fork out $20,000, $30,000, or $60,000 to get trucks and tools, and they are not even guaranteed to get 40 hours\u2019 work a week because they will be contractors who can be given work at the whim of Visionstream, rather than full-time employees of Telecom. They are suffering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EMigrant workers in New Zealand have a lot of concerns during this recession and because of the way that companies like Telecom are acting. It is almost a crime that someone like Paul Reynolds gets $5 million a year, including his bonuses, while these workers, who are fairly lowly paid as it is as full-time employees of Telecom, are now to be given very little as contractors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u00221771beabe71143c5acaa529eae3d4c05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221771beabe71143c5acaa529eae3d4c05\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E We are debating the Budget. We heard earlier from the Minister of Finance that the country is in a recession and that there are a number of challenges facing us. We all know that taxpayers\u2019 money is not always wisely spent. In my speech this evening I want to address a particular item of expenditure. I refer to the recent referendum on the issue of whether smacking should be a criminal offence. There was a lot of coverage given to the referendum and its cost to the New Zealand taxpayer of $9 million. That cost has been paid by the taxpayer, and I believe it is a cost we need to discuss this evening. Although the organisers of the referendum received a lot of criticism, I believe such referendums, or the access of the New Zealand public to referendums to call politicians to account, are absolutely fundamental to our democracy. The referendum could have been held at the last general election, but the previous Government chose not to do that. I believe very strongly that the reason this referendum has cost us far more than it should have lies firmly with the previous Government, and the Prime Minister in particular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EEarlier today my member\u2019s bill was pulled from the ballot, and within 4 hours the Prime Minister of New Zealand had called a press conference to say that the National Government would not be supporting it. I think that is a very, very big shame for the people of New Zealand. At 2 p.m. yesterday, when Parliament sat for the first time this week, I sought leave for my Crimes (Reasonable Parental Control and Correction) Amendment Bill to be introduced, and there was opposition from throughout the House. Yesterday afternoon the ACT Party stood as the only party prepared to stand up and represent the 87 percent of New Zealanders who voted No. From discussions I had with other members of the House earlier this afternoon, I was optimistic that I may have been able to get support for my bill. But within 4 hours, the Prime Minister ruled it out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI think that is very sad because the public of New Zealand were asked a specific question: do they believe smacking for the purposes of correction should be a criminal offence? It currently is an offence. The amendment that was passed in legislation 2 years ago clearly sets out that a smack for the purposes of correction is not a valid defence in a charge of assault. The people of New Zealand were told by members of the Government and by various other lobby groups that this was a make-believe referendum and that it was confusing. I do not believe the people of New Zealand were confused at all. There will be people listening to this debate tonight who voted No in that referendum who were not confused. The only way that we can make smacking for the purposes of correction not a criminal offence is to change the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI think the Prime Minister dismissed my member\u2019s bill out of hand, without, I assume, consulting his own caucus because it was dismissed very, very quickly. I say that in particular because I would like to again quote from a speech that John Key gave as Leader of the Opposition at a function organised by the Salvation Army in April 2007. He said \u201CIn reality no one is ever going to be prosecuted for lightly smacking their child. But if the reality is that no one is ever going to be prosecuted for lightly smacking their child, then don\u2019t make it illegal.\u201D It seems to me that the Prime Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f9e6225bd21491b9d855e5425268f35\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has spoken now for 4 minutes. This is a debate on the Appropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply Bill, and I ask the member to relate what he is saying back to the Budget. This is a Budget debate, and the member has 6 minutes left. I would like him to come back to the Budget. It is all very well what he is saying, but he must relate it to the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce0b413833fd464eb6763c5a3f4c7a0c\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I can relate my comments back to the Budget in very many ways. The cost of the referendum and the cost of child abuse in New Zealand is spread across many, many departmental votes. I see the Minister of Police, Judith Collins, is smiling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222995441a7cca4ff29e75f0855c38bb7c\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m a happy person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abfd573d997342fcbadc2253dfa1fed5\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister of Police tells me she is always smiling. There is money spent in her budget that covers the cost of policing, and the police are involved in enforcing the current law. There is money involved in the Ministry of Social Development budget, in the Child, Youth and Family budget, and for Child, Youth and Family staff. I am told there has been something close to 1,000 investigations by Child, Youth and Family into families over the last 2 years. They may have resulted in only 13 charges, but a huge amount of taxpayer money has been spent on investigations\u2014a huge amount of wasted money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThe reason I say this is important is that the Prime Minister clearly said 2 years ago that people will not be prosecuted for lightly smacking their child. He said that if that is the case, then why have a law that makes it a criminal offence. Mr Key has again said to the people of New Zealand this afternoon that he gives his assurance that people will not be prosecuted for lightly smacking their child. I say to Mr Key that if it is not his intention that police prosecute people who lightly smack their child, why have a law on the statute book that provides for it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EEighty-seven percent of people were not confused by the referendum; they voted No. Look, Mr Deputy Speaker, you want me to bring this debate back to the cost, but what is the cost to New Zealand? What is the cost in the policing budget? What is the cost in the Child, Youth and Family budget? An amount of $9 million was spent on this referendum, and it is a pity to ignore what the people of New Zealand are saying. I ask members to think of the money that we spend in this debating chamber and to think of the money that is spent on the salaries of parliamentarians and their officials. Think of us as lawmakers who have to pass laws that will be of benefit. It would seem as though the five ACT Party MPs are the only MPs prepared to represent that 87 percent; we have become the \u201C87 Percent Party\u201D. I see the Minister of Finance is smiling. He knows that what I am saying is true. He must be embarrassed that the five ACT Party MPs have become the \u201C87 Percent Party\u201D. Members can smile, but ACT has become the \u201C87 Percent Party\u201D. I have been sent correspondence this afternoon that members of the public have forwarded to National Ministers and National members of Parliament in the last 2 days. There is huge disappointment that the Prime Minister has decided that that $9 million should be wasted, that the people of New Zealand will not be listened to, and that we, the ACT Party, are left as the only people who will listen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI ask this Parliament, these parliamentarians, and the people here this evening who are being paid a salary by the taxpayer to think again about the children of New Zealand. Good parents are trying to raise their children as law-abiding citizens. Now parents are forced to tell their children that there are some laws it is OK to break. That is right; parents are being forced to tell their children that there are some laws it is OK to break if the Prime Minister has said it is OK. That is confusing and inconsistent for children. How can we be helping children if we pass laws that we acknowledge are not intended to be enforced? When the section 59 amendment was passed 2 years ago, there was a provision in the amendment that said the police will have some discretion. In other words, our parliamentarians knew that they were passing a law that was never intended to be enforced. I say to the National members what their Prime Minister said 2 years ago to the Salvation Army: if the reality is that people will never be prosecuted for lightly smacking, why make it illegal? Do not make it a crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EMr Chester Borrows is in the House this evening. I put up a member\u2019s bill that was based entirely on what Mr Borrows promoted 2 years ago. I might add that it was a bill that Mr Key talked about on breakfast television on 3 August\u2014his Prime Minister\u2019s salary was being paid by taxpayers. He said that had National been the Government 2 years ago, it would have passed the Chester Borrows amendment. My member\u2019s bill was drawn out of the ballot this afternoon. The salaries of the people administering the drawing of the ballot were paid by taxpayers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d80093bc17b4a838295f60a8b2d947c\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Thrown in the dustbin!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7d0209e273742eab9462c60f4613997\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it might have been thrown in the dustbin, Mr Hone Harawira tells us. But we stand here very proudly, as the party prepared to represent 87 percent of New Zealanders. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u002295d29a55877843c8b5b119d2a8254093\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295d29a55877843c8b5b119d2a8254093\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. The Appropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill includes within its schedules the commitment and departmental output expenses to implement the Government\u2019s decisions on the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance. It is pretty straightforward, one might think, until one gets to the report of the Local Government and Environment Committee. Then it starts to come unstuck. Yes, there were issues about cost. But the real issue for us as the M\u0101ori Party and for the whole nation was the arrogant dismissal of the issue of M\u0101ori representation. This House knows well of our commitment to strong M\u0101ori representation at every level of governance in this country because of the value we placed on the Treaty partnership and the honouring of that partnership by both M\u0101ori and the Crown. In fact, our agreement with National includes a line that reads: \u201CBoth the National Party and the Maori Party will act in accordance with te Tiriti o Waitangi, the Treaty of Waitangi.\u201D We take that line seriously because the Treaty partnership is the basis of the Crown\u2019s relationship with M\u0101ori. We expect the Government to do its best to uphold the Treaty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe issue of the M\u0101ori seats was just the vehicle for the Prime Minister to use to advance his philosophy about taking the country forward. He would have had the support. Heck, even before he came along, the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance travelled all over the region, talked to hundreds of people, received more than 3,500 submissions, and publicly recommended M\u0101ori seats. It made the point that M\u0101ori have simply not been represented in local governance, at all. Eight M\u0101ori councillors in 150 years is an indictment on the current system, not an endorsement of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EOn election night 2008 the Prime Minister famously spoke of looking forward to a positive relationship with the M\u0101ori Party. The M\u0101ori seats in Parliament have been there for more than 100 years without there ever being a collapse of Government. With the emergence of the M\u0101ori Party, there is finally a recognition that the M\u0101ori seats provide the opportunity for greater participation by M\u0101ori in the electoral process and more independent thinking from M\u0101ori MPs. The newly minted Minister of Local Government thought he could run a sly one past the M\u0101ori in Auckland by talking up the importance of the Auckland Governance Legislation Committee process, probably expecting people to oppose the M\u0101ori seats there. But what do members know? The select committee also travelled all over the region, talked to hundreds of people, and received more than 2,500 submissions. Guess what! More than 80 percent of non-M\u0101ori submissions also came out in support of the M\u0101ori seats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b520daaab1d24c4caddfa342bf03740a\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b77ef9dda8224f258f47d2ff7321e44f\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: More than 80 percent. One hundred percent of the M\u0101ori submissions supported them, but that is to be expected. Most of the councils in Auckland have come out in support of the M\u0101ori seats, as have three of Auckland\u2019s mayors. The Prime Minister himself thought the seats were a deal worth doing. The Leader of the Opposition supported them, Russel Norman and Metiria Turei added their weight as leaders of the Greens, and, of course, the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s Tariana Turia and Pita Sharples were clearly in favour of the M\u0101ori seats, as well. Thousands of Aucklanders marched in support of the M\u0101ori seats, and, for heaven\u2019s sake, even the good old, conservative New Zealand Herald spoke out strongly in favour of those M\u0101ori seats. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EYet what do we get from the Minister of Local Government? We get a threat to throw his toys out of the cot if he cannot get his way. We get a threat to resign if the M\u0101ori seats go in as part of his legislation. Well, so much for democracy! In fact, the Government caved in completely by announcing its rejection of the M\u0101ori seats before the select committee report was even in. Never mind the hundreds of thousands of dollars wasted on the exercise; never mind the will of the people; and never mind even thinking about the overwhelming support for the M\u0101ori seats from all over the place and from all kinds of people\u2014black, white, and all shades in between. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWhat a bloody joke the select committee turned out to be! I am glad that I did not bother hauling my little black ass around all the hearings, because at the end of the day the word was sent down from on high: \u201CWe do not care what you National and ACT members of the select committee saw, we do not care who you met, and we certainly do not care what you heard. You will put together a mealy-mouthed report that uses petty little words like \u2018substantial\u2019 instead of \u2018overwhelming\u2019, and prattles on about different models as the reason for trying to deny what people were actually saying.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2e906a20ad2459983c1e33e49e1ba9c\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have listened very carefully to this speech and thus far I have not heard one reference at all to expenditure on anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eeaf115a1734dafba868b10e14bc3e2\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Probably prior to the member coming into the Chamber, an amendment was put in the name of Labour that talks about the M\u0101ori seats in Auckland. This member is speaking to the amendment in Labour\u2019s name, so he is in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b00d571086a7426c9570ed6b8d4542be\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: Word was sent down from on high: \u201CWe do not care what you National and ACT members of the select committee saw, we do not care who you met, and we certainly do not care what you heard. You will put together a mealy-mouthed report\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2150300d8764552b0a0229009079b30\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot bring me into the debate. He has mentioned \u201Cyou\u201D many times. The member should concentrate please on the substantive nature of his speech, without bringing the Speaker into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ce028a2c44a49b7906b2ba0afce318a\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201Cthat uses petty little words like \u2018substantial\u2019 instead of \u2018overwhelming\u2019, and prattles on about different models as the reason for trying to deny what people were actually saying.\u201D Eighty percent of those submissions can be summed up in five little words: \u201CWe support the M\u0101ori seats.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua chairperson, Naida Glavish, described the Government\u2019s unequivocal no to M\u0101ori representation as a slap in the face. She said that the future now looks bland and unrepresentative. Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua o \u014Cr\u0101kei spokesman, Ng\u0101rimu Blair, described it as \u201Cone more chapter in our long struggle.\u201D\u2014a struggle to uphold the nation\u2019s constitutional foundations; a struggle to live by the promise of the Treaty of Waitangi. Tainui chairman, Tukoroirangi Morgan, said that he was disappointed in Mr Key, saying he had \u201Ccaved in to Rodney and his 1 per cent party.\u201D Mr Morgan went on to say that Mr Key said the relationship with M\u0101ori was a significant one. Mr Morgan said: \u201Cclearly, that\u2019s amounted to nothing.\u201D He said further that Tainui would refuse to take part in any advisory board: \u201CThat\u2019s not where the decisions are made. Giving Maori people the crumbs at the second level is a nonsense and we\u2019ve made it quite clear we are not interested in being a tekoteko or tonotono\u2014people who are subservient to the top table.\u201D Mihi atu ki a ia. I wanted to present those views up front, because this House needs to understand how seriously M\u0101ori view this breach of the relationship between M\u0101ori and the Crown. It is hugely and massively disappointing, but surprisingly unsurprising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI put all this before the House today as we consider the appropriation bill because it also signals a substantial cost that this nation can ill afford. In the same way that this country agonised over MMP and finally accepted it as a model that would better enhance democratic representation in the Parliament of this nation, so too should we be bold enough to consider other ways of enhancing representation at local body level. In the same way that M\u0101ori seats in Parliament are a means of enhancing democratic representation for a Treaty partner in a plural society, so too are M\u0101ori seats on the proposed Auckland Council. The facts tell us that M\u0101ori representation does not happen as of right, and that it will not happen unless there is the political will for the Treaty to matter. When the Government says that if the new Auckland Council wants M\u0101ori seats, then it can choose to establish them, it is consigning those M\u0101ori seats to the dustbin of history. If there are no M\u0101ori seats on the council to begin with, who on earth will advocate for them to be established? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe long history of M\u0101ori participation and representation in local government is all the evidence we need to support the view that this House has an obligation to provide for M\u0101ori representation in the governance structure of the proposed Auckland Council. Pita Sharples said that M\u0101ori will never go away, and that M\u0101ori representation is inevitable. All that Rodney Hide\u2019s political tactics are doing is putting off the inevitable, putting this Government on the wrong side of history, and bringing discord to the relationship between M\u0101ori and the Crown. The M\u0101ori Party will continue to work with mana whenua and with other M\u0101ori in Auckland to fight this attack on our rights as Treaty partners, and to push for those M\u0101ori seats. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI make one final statement about those seats. Getting M\u0101ori seats at local government is like using Pantene shampoo: it may not happen overnight, but it will happen. The sadness is that when history looks back at this time, it will not see a head of shining hair. All it will see is a balding scalp full of kutu because Rodney will not share his shampoo. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u00226c6af19324e1403998f05e80cbaa4d75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c6af19324e1403998f05e80cbaa4d75\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I proudly rise on behalf of the Labour Party to speak in this appropriation debate. Before I begin to comment on things that were in the Budget, I will comment on the speech made by the previous speaker, Hone Harawira. I listened with keen interest to his presentation. I say that the Labour Party will be supporting the M\u0101ori Party amendment. I concur with all the things he said. I am not sure about the condition of Rodney\u2019s hair, but the rest of his speech made a lot of sense. It is about participation, and it is about recognition of the special role that iwi play in this country, as recognised by the Treaty and as represented in our Parliament by M\u0101ori seats. It is given a good example in the Bay of Plenty where there is iwi participation as of right on the regional council, where it is working very successfully. The Labour Party believes that in Auckland City, which has the largest M\u0101ori population in the world, and with M\u0101ori the indigenous people of our land, participation in the governance of that city by M\u0101ori is critical to successful local governance in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EI have sat through, I guess, 12 Budgets in this Chamber. I have to say that for 9 years, under the previous Labour Government that left office in October last year, Budget time was a time of excitement in New Zealand. It was a time to be proud to be a Kiwi. Amazing things were announced in this Chamber over those 9 years. I could spend all night talking about the initiatives that came through in Labour Budgets, everything from KiwiSaver, the Cullen fund, saving our national airline, and saving our railways, to creating the most amazing initiatives in education, in health, in housing, in conservation, and so it goes on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EI think of education, in which I held my last ministerial portfolio. Amazing things were announced in previous Budgets for education, such as Schools Plus, the programme that Labour was bringing in. I can hear Mrs Tolley, the present Minister of Education, chuckling. I say thank you to Mrs Tolley for being here. This woman is known throughout New Zealand as the invisible Minister. Indeed, Craccum, the Auckland University Students Association newspaper, ran a weekly column called \u201CThe Great Craccum Tolley Hunt\u201D. The students wanted to know whether she actually existed. Sadly for New Zealanders, she does, as does the Government that she is part of. This Government has done the most astonishing things in education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EFirst of all, this Budget put $35 million into private schools. It put $35 million into the schools attended by the children of the wealthiest New Zealanders. Private schools are not part of our State system. The Government put $35 million into private schools, but it cut out special education funding for some 23 schools. The programmes for children with cerebral palsy and other children with special needs were cut. Of course there was such a hue and cry about that, that she did a flip-flop. New Zealanders were so outraged that $35 million went into private schools and 23 schools with physically disabled students had their funding cut. Of course, there are all sorts of other funding cuts going on in education. Fruit in Schools\u2014that is out. That came from the woman who had a stomach stapling operation to deal with her own obesity, and she cut fruit out of schools. She also reintroduced junk food into school canteens. Was that not a wonderful message to all New Zealanders! Junk food is back into schools, and fruit is out. And this comes from the Minister who has had a stomach stapling operation. What sort of message is that to New Zealand education? It is actually incredibly shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4deb2ef9e0043baab94c1c5c7131dbb\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was the most outrageous personal attack by the former Minister. I would ask\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8fa757a3e440e59f2317fba755ad9a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220555ede0687c4c8bab3664f7f9bc6639\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I would ask that he withdraw and apologise to the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022355c3cbdcff747a195cbfd51c192fddb\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister who is referred to is in the House. If she has taken exception, I ask her whether she wishes to take a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0fbff55f52f46acb716b60b19fafb1b\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I found that personal attack to be offensive. I ask the member to apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeb6184ea03449ae996e7e7d9ce912d7\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member to apologise and withdraw the comment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb688d66db5241a09e53508709049243\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fde10772538648eab66bec9e6604d8cd\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member must also withdraw the comment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022415dcb82ae3144ba9b94064487aea6cf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw the comment. Obesity is a very serious issue in our schools. Around 40 percent of young New Zealanders suffer from obesity, with enormous implications for our health system and for the well-being of New Zealanders. To cut fruit out of schools and to reintroduce junk food into our school canteens sends a terrible message about the Government\u2019s priorities in education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EWe heard today about some initiatives to deal with youth offending. The only way we can deal with youth offending is through a systemic approach. We must deal with early childhood, and in previous Budgets in this Chamber under a Labour Government, enormous sums of money went into, first of all, giving 20 free hours for early childhood education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224750fe94d8dc401db444cb9ff158a1c2\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: It did nothing!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de9020284adf42e582b63b27780565c4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The present Minister of Education, Anne Tolley, says it was nothing, that 20 free hours for every 4-year-old in New Zealand is nothing. I tell members that it was a large amount of money, and it was an effective intervention to open up education opportunities for young Kiwis. All research shows that all children who have an effective, quality early childhood education do better in their lifelong journey through education. Something like $100 million went into enhancing early childhood education physical facilities. Through a funding process in Labour Budgets we established a new curriculum, which we modernised and which became a world quality document that overseas educationalists came to this country to look at. We developed a systemic approach to underachievement, which was about building education opportunities, facilities, and resources right from the start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EWhere are the resources in this Budget for that sort of approach to deal with underachievement and lifting up skills? There was enough money to put $35 million into private education, but there was not enough money to do any meaningful expansion of early childhood education. I got the Minister of Education to look at South Auckland schools to see which schools wanted early childhood education facilities on their properties. Of course, land is the greatest expense in building early childhood education facilities. South Auckland\u2014Manukau City\u2014has the smallest number of early childhood education facilities anywhere in the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e71553aff9b40a786ea6a824ad05558\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262e3fb0f602b45119a8e73b71d653918\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I can hear Ms Tolley saying that is right. As soon as National was elected, it immediately cut out that opportunity. We went down from something like 16 schools ready to go, to a handful. That is absolutely cutting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b33fbdb48ac64f50b833a5202376fe19\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: They didn\u2019t want it. You decided they were going to have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dcc5202b642457c95ecd0c169732783\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the member opposite bleating that the schools did not want them. Every school initiated the facilities with the Ministry of Education. They wanted the facility on their school site so that local children could get into those facilities and begin a successful, lifelong education journey. But that is not good enough for the new Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EThis Budget is a \u201CSheriff of Nottingham\u201D Budget. It rips off the poorest New Zealanders and complements the resources of the wealthiest. We see it in the $35 million for private schools. We see it in the cut to adult and community education, which I know my colleague Maryan Street will talk about shortly. We see it in the tax regime, which was announced before the Budget, but was part of that process, and that was all about taking resources from the poor and giving it to the rich. You know, 3 percent of New Zealanders got 33 percent of that tax money. Something like 71 percent of New Zealanders got no money whatsoever from those tax cuts. Is that not incredibly shameful? Elsewhere in the world, Governments are stimulating their economies so that people have purchasing power. Now who will go out and buy things? Families who are not so well off will use any extra resources they get, like Working for Families, which was an incredible initiative that came through under a Labour Government, or income-related rents in State houses. That was all about giving more purchasing power to people who are not so well off. It was not only good for them, because it increased their quality of life and gave more opportunity to their families, but also it stimulated consumption at a time of recession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003EIn Australia, enormous sums of money have gone into stimulating the economy. In China, where I recently visited, 4 trillion renminbi is going into stimulating the economy to get consumption moving. We are one of the very few developed countries in the world, if not the only one, that is actually retracting spending instead of expanding it to try to stimulate consumption and economic growth. Two thousand New Zealanders are losing their jobs every week. We now have a higher unemployment rate than Australia. This comes from a Government that spent 9 years in this Chamber saying it wanted to be ambitious for New Zealand and to catch up with Australia; we now have more unemployed per head of population than Australia. How shameful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec2b20c1f3744679bb377a54de40c2de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec2b20c1f3744679bb377a54de40c2de\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E I have some advice for the member who just resumed his seat, the Hon Chris Carter, the former Minister of Education. I suggest that he spends more time in New Zealand and finds out what is really happening. His contribution was a typical contribution from a man in denial. He seems to think that Labour ran the country in good shape over the previous 9 years. He seems to think that the election did not happen and that the people of New Zealand did not wake up to the fact that Labour left a mess. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe Budget was difficult to prepare. It was difficult because of the mess that had been left by Dr Michael Cullen. I will forever remember the day when Dr Michael Cullen, the then Minister of Finance, appeared on the TV news and revealed the Pre-election Fiscal Update. He sheer gloated, saying to New Zealanders: \u201CWhoops! After 9 years of economic buoyancy I have left the place in such a mess that I am leaving a decade of deficit for whoever wins the election in a couple of months.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EHistory shows that New Zealanders knew the economy had been run down and was in a mess. They gave National the vote to form a Government, and we are grateful for that. But no one should ever forget the mess that Dr Michael Cullen made after 9 years of buoyancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EChris Carter points out that Australians are in a position where they are battling the current economic recession now by spending more money. We do not have that option. That option was taken away from us by the profligate spending by the previous Labour Government on all sorts of programmes. One was called What\u2019s Up. Badges were given out to New Zealanders by Chris Carter as the Minister of Education in an attempt to improve literacy. It was absolutely useless. If Chris Carter spent more time in New Zealand and more time with the people he is meant to be representing, he would know that he left a serious problem with literacy in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EAs a former Minister of Education, he will go down as a complete and utter failure. He not only spent money with reckless abandon but also made sure we dropped the literacy standards in this country over that period of time. Chris Carter\u2019s record is shameful. He suggested that our current Minister of Education, the Hon Anne Tolley, is an invisible member. Well, she may well be invisible in China, London, the United States, or wherever it is that Chris Carter has been travelling to, but in this country she is very visible. She is tackling the real issues and the mess that was left behind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe real problem that this country faces is that we have the most incredible economic conditions since the 1930s. Although the whole of the developed world grapples with this recession\u2014it is an international recession\u2014New Zealand, under the previous Labour Government, can claim one credit. It entered into recession before the international recession hit. That is the condition the Labour Government left New Zealand in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022380011a2391542aa9cb006987a6f5c90\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: And the member\u2019s Government said it was a drought. That\u2019s what that member said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250850e55cbe94e0180cb174a71c0dbfd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mallard has woken up. He is another member who is in complete denial of the mess his Government left. He was an Associate Minister of Finance. He can take the next call and explain the mess that was left. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EChris Carter said in his contribution that our Budget had cut spending. Again, if he spent a little more time in New Zealand he would know that the Budget did not cut spending; it very carefully controlled the amount we could spend. It increased the amount of spending in all of the important portfolios where we had to increase spending, but it did so with caution. The Budget was very focused on the debt structure we had been left\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2d2fe6499e747b48d2a71963552c3c7\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: And very focused on tax cuts for the wealthy\u2014very focused on inappropriate tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229acd11b417674c5fad34d45b3c78f31e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and on the fact that we had to remain credibly recognisable by international rating agencies, otherwise every New Zealander would have incurred an increase in interest rates. That may not worry Maryan Street. She might be one of those lucky New Zealanders without a mortgage. She might be one of those people who do not know anything about businesses that borrow money to create capital and create jobs in order to give New Zealanders jobs. Those New Zealanders are the people we have to think about when we are putting together a Budget. They are the sorts of people who are affected by the rash decisions made by the previous Labour Government. They are the people we had in mind when we carefully put together a Budget that was respectable and recognised the huge issues we have to face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIn health alone I remember 9 years of Labour Budgets. The previous Labour Government used to spend more money every year\u2014ridiculously large amounts of money. I expected that we would get something out of that expenditure, but we actually got fewer elective surgeries under Labour, even though it increased the Health vote by over 50 percent in those 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe Hon Tony Ryall is doing a superb job tidying up the mess left by the previous Government. He is focused on making sure that the taxpayer money that goes into Vote Health is there for those people who need it. It is not there for the bureaucrats to build huge bureaucracy around the system; it is about delivering the best health dollars to those people who need it, those people needing primary health care, and those people in our hospitals tonight who should be the focus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281ba50eb5918445b8e6f6ecee1120f6d\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Primary health care! Oh, yes, let\u2019s start on primary health care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299d0847e487442f882e48e1c8a60863e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Maryan Street should be ashamed of herself for not seeing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI will finish my contribution by talking about my particular portfolio areas of agriculture, forestry, and biosecurity. Although this country is in recession, most people realise\u2014certainly every member on this side of the House does, but maybe Labour members do not\u2014that the New Zealand economy will come out of recession when the New Zealand rural scene performs. The rural sector is the backbone of the economy. It was given scant regard by the previous Labour Government, but if we look after that sector, watch the cost structures that have been recklessly imposed on it, and give it a chance to compete effectively and fairly against other producers around the world, then it will be the industry that drives this country out of recession, delivering better living standards for everybody. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThat is why we were so focused on the primary growth strategy. The Primary Growth Partnership has to deliver the next level of innovation to the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e7ef7e7418f4604a146cdce7be65442\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: And it is a tenth of the Fast Forward Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee830706f7fd4008838a73d1a2d1a192\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here we go\u2014the rubbish about the Fast Forward Fund. Maryan Street would borrow $700 million today and somehow magically that would become $2 billion. No one else, not even Jim Anderton, believed that story, but Maryan Street still believes it. I guarantee to that member\u2014I have told her before; I know she will not listen, but I will say it again in the hope that she will listen\u2014that over the next 15 years the Primary Growth Partnership will deliver considerably more money than we ever got out of the Fast Forward Fund. We are not going out there to borrow money to create a fund; we are doing it with industry. We have people in the industry saying that our scheme will work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe industry had no faith at all in the previous scheme. Mr Anderton announced the previous scheme and then said: \u201CNow we had better build a bureaucracy around it.\u201D The industry was panicking about that scheme. That is why people in the industry did not vote Labour at the last election. Like most New Zealanders they saw the opportunity to get a better Government, one that is really focused on the economy. That is why the Labour Party lost\u2014and lost decisively\u2014the last election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWhen the next Labour member stands to make a contribution in the debate I think that member should acknowledge that Labour got it wrong. Labour members should acknowledge that the people of New Zealand finally woke up to the way Labour was trying to spend its way round the country to buy votes in an attempt to stay in office. New Zealanders woke up because they know that this economy can perform substantially better. They know that the economy should be delivering for them a substantially better lifestyle and standard of living than it is. With John Key as Prime Minister, the National Government will perform for a long, long time, delivering substantially to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022742a00f56749472797079f58478f9756\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022742a00f56749472797079f58478f9756\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to talk about the Appropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill and to focus on what we are voting on tonight. I want to draw to the attention of the public that amongst the things we are voting on are a $13 million cut per annum to adult and community education; cuts to university funding; scuttling the tertiary scholarships; shutting down Top Achiever Doctoral Scholarships; shutting down the Skill Enhancement programme, which directly affects M\u0101ori providers, including the Kokiri Training Centre in Dunedin; and shutting down the funds for the Pathfinders programme, which is funding for young people, particularly M\u0101ori people. It is called the Ng\u0101 Kaiarataki scheme; the Pathfinders scheme. In this document\u2014for the benefit of the Minister of Education, Anne Tolley\u2014is a whole series of testimonials from schools in her electorate that are protesting against the cuts to education, and the Pathfinders provision in the first instance. There are cuts to polytechnic funding. It is the end of professional development programmes for teachers. These are the things we are voting on tonight. Those cuts need to be known to the public, and the public need to be aware that this is the kind of bill that is in front of us tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI shall take one of those issues and talk about adult and community education. The cuts to that area are particularly fierce. The adult and community education sector delivered, as we so often know it, through high schools and night classes, and the community organisations they support are at extreme risk. In fact, when there has been an 80 percent cut in funding to high schools it is entirely apparent to everybody except this Minister that adult and community education classes will have to stop. The people who attend those adult and community education classes are generally those who are not in a position to self-fund, as the Minister thinks is possible. It may be possible on her salary, but she is not like many of the people in, for example, the area where I live in Nelson, where 76 percent of income earners earn less than $40,000. So, they have not benefited from a tax cut, and they are not able to provide funding for adult and community education classes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI draw to the Minister\u2019s attention, because she seems to be unaware of it, just what the purpose of adult and community education is. There have been five strategic priorities, three of which will go down the gurgler when this vote is passed tonight. The purposes are targeting learners whose initial learning was unsuccessful, raising the foundation learning of literacy and numeracy skills, encouraging lifelong learning, strengthening communities, and strengthening social cohesion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the bang for the buck that communities get, and that the Government gets as a return on investment for every dollar invested in adult and community education classes, we see that the Minister is flying in the face of the evidence that demonstrates that that dollar is well spent. Every single dollar of Government money that is put into adult and community education classes at the very least returns $16 to $22\u2014we are talking estimates tonight. Any Government dollar that is put into adult and community education returns, at a minimum, from $16 to $22. If the PricewaterhouseCoopers\u2019 additional factors are put in\u2014that is, accounting for volunteer hours and private contribution\u2014that return escalates hugely to somewhere between $54 and $72. But the most critical point about the cuts is that thousands upon thousands of New Zealanders are going to be denied the opportunity to have locally delivered, accessible, affordable, post-compulsory education opportunities. And that is a crime. That is a crime against the communities that are out there. Hundreds upon hundreds of people are attending meetings around this country that National MPs are too afraid to attend. National MPs are too afraid to attend them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIn Dunedin there was no National MP; in Canterbury there were two National MPs. Two National MPs turned up in Christchurch, to their credit. They were booed and jeered and hissed, and it was probably their first experience of that. I hope they learn from it. But clearly it is not making any difference. There was no National MP at a meeting in Porirua, no National MP at a meeting in Newlands, no National MP out here on the steps of Parliament, no National MP in Auckland, and no National MP\u2014except for one\u2014in Hamilton. They are running for cover on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EFirst of all, the Minister said that she was digging her toes in and that the cuts would not be reconsidered. A report in the Otago Daily Times on 10 August stated \u201CCuts will not be reconsidered\u201D, but by Wednesday, 19 August, out of Canterbury, she began to change her story and said that it was out of her hands, and that the education cuts were not her decision. She said that again to Community Learning Association through Schools representatives\u2014that is, representatives of the group that covers the adult and community education coordinators. Well, if the education Minister has washed her hands of them, she has now compelled all of the people in adult and community education to write to the Prime Minister. I am sure he is appreciating the heavy mailbag he is getting these days. So now the Community Learning Association through Schools, over Maryke Fordyce\u2019s name, is writing to the Prime Minister and asking him to change his mind, to alter this cut to adult and community education. What is the recent evidence of that group\u2019s likelihood of success? We have from this Government, developing as a theme, \u201CWe will not listen. We will not listen.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222173fb60f58e4b38b252a258805bf52b\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: We know best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bf91b261dbc4d87ace649274ac2ce47\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWe know best. I am sorry if those cuts offend the community, but we know best.\u201D We have people who will testify to the value and the worth of adult and community education delivered through organisations and high schools. In the Auckland region the adult and community education money goes to 160 community organisations around the Auckland area. It puts some $700,000 into those communities at a grassroots level that allows people to build up their confidence to engage in formal education again, that allows people to upskill when they have been out of the workforce for a long time, and that allows people to develop their literacy and numeracy skills\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8e193d57c03495193007140e7753aef\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: And scarf tie-dying\u2014it is a whole heap of rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f3163cc4008423189e9a2dc91cfaf31\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: Even through Moroccan cooking, I say to Mrs Tolley\u2014even through Moroccan cooking\u2014because if one cannot read and one cannot count, one cannot cook! This kind of affront to adult and community education is going to come back and haunt this Government, and that is a promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00220e1abc7a28fc4be583bd7c35ff31a76d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e1abc7a28fc4be583bd7c35ff31a76d\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The time for this debate has concluded. The question is that the amendment in the name of the Hon Phil Goff be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002235ca0800e81b4c71bf58d78c1fbcc794\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That all words after \u201Cand\u201D be omitted, and the following substituted: \u201Cthat this House condemns the decision of the Government to pre-empt the democratic process through the select committee on Auckland governance regarding M\u0101ori representation and in doing so ignored the views of submitters and members of the public on this issue.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dfc4ecf31795475898a4c2f7fce0b16b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2009/2010 Estimates) Bill be now read a third time and the Imprest Supply (Second for 2009/2010) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2009/10 Estimates) Bill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002290fcc2e56dd84b8595d1926d4bf7f608\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (Second for 2009/10) Bill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002259c45c3a90684a898bf9ac40d4963c0a\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (Second for 2009/10) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4def577f4dd48f686011657c0ad7934\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00221620c4cb767948d7bf96fdc8a63d7807\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221620c4cb767948d7bf96fdc8a63d7807\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2009/10) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a1dfa4888fef4a21931145136ef7d49a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2009/2010) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022acea038cf8a64f48854dc6b8ccf562d9\u0022\u003EEducation (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a3cfd53d54654b758fc50db651beab74\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002281a719d5dbb041828fd6ab69a14a1442\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281a719d5dbb041828fd6ab69a14a1442\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. Later, I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Education and Science Committee, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 13 November 2009, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during oral questions, and during any evening on a day in which there has been a sitting of the House and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c). The purpose of this motion is to bring forward the report back of the bill to ensure its enactment before Christmas. This will give existing polytechnic councils at least 4 months to transition towards the new governance arrangements, which will come into effect on 1 May 2010. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to building a stronger and more responsive tertiary education system. A key priority is to strengthen the quality of provision and to enhance provider accountability. As a critical part of the tertiary education system, it is important that the polytechnic sector in New Zealand is a financially viable sector that is capable of providing high-quality vocational education and training opportunities for New Zealanders. This Government is committed to polytechnics and institutes of technology. We understand the role they play in communities as economic and education hubs. We want to give them governance arrangements that are workable and allow polytechnic councils to get on with the business of serving their students and communities. At the same time, this Government does not have the desire or the money to continue to provide the $416 million of special assistance funding that the sector has received since 2005-06. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe first objective of the bill is to improve the governance capability and effectiveness of polytechnic councils. The bill establishes new governance arrangements for polytechnics, with the aim of building the capability of councils. There are four main features of the new governance arrangements. Firstly, the bill emphasises the importance of good governance. Appointments to councils will be made on the basis of relevant skills and experience, especially governance experience. New individual duties are placed on council members that highlight the primary obligation of members to act in the interests of the polytechnic as a whole. The Government\u2019s expectation that these duties will be complied with is demonstrated through the new power conferred on the Minister for Tertiary Education to remove council members for just cause. Just cause includes breaches of any of the collective or individual duties of members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ESecondly, the size of polytechnic councils is reduced from a membership that can currently range from 12 to 20 members to eight only. Provision has been made for four ministerial appointees: the chief executive and one member each from the student body, the academic board, and the community served by the polytechnic. This size strikes a balance between a council that represents the key parties involved in a polytechnic and one that is workable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThirdly, the Minister for Tertiary Education will appoint the chair and deputy chair of each polytechnic council. They will be chosen from among the four ministerial appointees and the successful community nominee. Having the Minister make these appointments is consistent with the Crown Entities Act 2004. It does not mean, however, that the chair and deputy chair will be subject to ministerial direction. As council members they must comply with their duty to act in the interest of the polytechnic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EFourthly, the bill provides for collaborative governance arrangements such as enabling individuals to sit on more than one polytechnic council and allowing two or more councils to combine. These arrangements are intended to assist with the recruitment of suitable candidates for council membership, especially in rural areas. They also create a more flexible legal framework that councils can take advantage of when looking to develop innovative responses to governance issues as they arise in future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe second objective of the bill is to allow the Crown to more effectively respond to the risks posed by polytechnics with educational or financial performance issues. The bill amends the Education Act 1989 to create a more flexible intervention framework for the polytechnic sector\u2014one that allows for a gradually escalating series of responses to situations of risk. Three new interventions are created. Subject to appropriate legal constraints, the chief executive of the Tertiary Education Commission will be able to require a polytechnic council to obtain specialist help or prepare a performance improvement plan. The Minister for Tertiary Education will be able to appoint a Crown manager to undertake specified council functions. It is intended that the Crown manager will perform a similar role to the limited statutory manager in the compulsory schooling sector. The bill also empowers the Secretary for Education to issue specific criteria for assessing the level of risk to the operation and long-term viability of polytechnics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill contains a number of miscellaneous amendments. Firstly, this Government is concerned about the number of young people who are leaving school without adequate qualifications. The bill amends the Education Act 1989 to allow the Manukau Institute of Technology to establish a tertiary education high school, which will operate from the beginning of 2010. Intended as a trial project, the tertiary education high school will offer a course of study to students in years 11 to 13 who have been identified by their school as unlikely to succeed in a conventional school setting but who are motivated to succeed in tertiary education and whose parents are supportive. Secondly, under the Education Act 1989 each individual polytechnic is required to have an academic board. The bill enables two or more separate polytechnic councils to establish a combined academic board. This provides councils keen on developing closer working relationships another option to consider, and improves administrative efficiency. Finally, the bill includes minor technical amendments to the tertiary education parts of the Education Act 1989. These amendments will update the Act by removing redundant provisions. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022c085c52f78e848dfaae751b296b7a226\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c085c52f78e848dfaae751b296b7a226\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill. There seems to be a theme developing this week from the National Government: do not listen to the public. It does not matter whether thousands of people march in Auckland to express a view on the need for M\u0101ori seats in the Auckland super-city; the Government will not listen. It does not matter whether thousands of people sign a petition against cuts to adult and community education; the Government will not listen. It does not matter whether locals do not want the northern boundary of Auckland City to change; the Government will not listen. It does not matter whether the select committee on the Auckland super-city finishes its work in respect of M\u0101ori seats; it does not matter, because the Government will not listen. This theme brings us straight to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe essence of this bill is the cutting back of community representation on polytechnic councils. It takes the possibility of community input and representation on polytechnic councils out of the equation. It moves polytechnic council membership from anywhere between 14 and 20 members to eight, of whom four are appointed by the Minister for Tertiary Education, one is a student representative, one is an academic representative appointed by the council, and one is a poor community representative, who is to be elected by a process that is not entirely clear. There is also the chief executive officer of the polytechnic. That is the sum total. So what has been taken out? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party may be interested to know that this bill contains particular provisions around M\u0101ori representation. First of all, there is none. M\u0101ori representation has been taken out, as has Pasifika representation. Business representation and union representation have also been taken out. For the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s benefit, I will quote from the explanatory note of the bill in respect of M\u0101ori representation, which states: \u201Cit is desirable in principle that a polytechnic council should include M\u0101ori; and that, so far as is possible, a polytechnic council should reflect the ethnic and socio-economic diversity of the community it serves.\u201D For a party that was not prepared to have a M\u0101ori as its president, what are the chances of this Minister appointing people who represent M\u0101ori interests? What are the chances? National cannot even do it in-house, so how could it possibly do that in an area that really matters? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EHere we have another iteration of this week\u2019s theme of \u201CLet\u2019s not listen to the people, and let\u2019s chuck out any provision in legislation that requires community input.\u201D It is probably a little more honest than some of the activities earlier this week, whereby people were led to believe that the select committee process may reflect their views, only to have the Prime Minister cut across that process. It may be more honest for the Government simply to say upfront that it has no interest in the community being represented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI will highlight a couple of disadvantages. Polytechnics are charged to deliver educational opportunities and training for the benefit of the region they serve. How will a polytechnic council know what the interests of the region are if there are no community representatives, including business representatives, on its council? Let me give some examples, and I will choose one at random. The chairman of Eastern Institute of Technology, David Pearson, said that regional voices ensured that the institute could best service Hawke\u2019s Bay, but that he was worried that this legislation will weaken the voice of regional interests. He said that there is no strong voice guaranteed for business and communities in these proposals, and that a real potential also exists for political swings backwards and forwards, as Governments change. Let me also refer to the chairperson of Wintec in Hamilton, Gordon Chesterman. He is quoted in the Waikato Times\u2014and this is even scarier\u2014as saying: \u201CThis section of the bill suggests that the polytechnic sector is in disarray, sending a bad signal to the international market place. We rely on the growth of our international students so to suggest we are in a poor state is sending a message that New Zealand is not the best place to gain qualifications.\u201D We can also look at another article, which quotes the Universal College of Learning\u2019s chief executive Paul McElroy. It states: \u201Cthe local polytechnic council is doing a \u2018stunning\u2019 job, and there is no need to give board members their marching orders.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThat leads to the next question: what is the purpose of this restructuring of the polytechnic councils? Why does the Minister want to reach so far into the polytechnic councils to run them, and to control four out of the eight councillors? Two of the other members of the council\u2014namely, the chief executive and the academic board representative\u2014are dependent on those four for appointment, and the other two are the poor student rep, who will have to carry the can for the whole student community, and the somehow elected community representative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe control being exercised by the Government in the polytech sector is not a healthy sign. It is not a healthy sign for academic achievement. It is not a healthy sign if a polytech is meant to be required to reflect the needs of, and to provide training appropriate to, its region\u2014and it will be unable to do that. It is not a healthy sign, because we do not know what the Minister\u2019s agenda is; we are not told what it is. The polytechnic sector does not need the kind of wholesale swingeing attack that this bill represents. There are possibilities for improvements in polytechs, and they know that better than anybody. They know it better than the Minister, and they themselves are looking to improve their performance every day and every year. There have been difficulties in the past, but to lump all polytechs into this kind of bucket is a slight on all of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis bill is not an essential move. It conveys the impression that the Minister is keen to control the polytechs, and, through the graded process of being able to intervene, she will be able to again alter and reach into those polytechs in order to control what they are doing. Governments should not be in control of curricula. Governments should not be in control of the kinds of courses put up by a polytech as long as it is meeting the requirements of its region, which is what polytechs are charged to do under existing legislation. This bill takes away community voice. It takes away people\u2019s representation on polytechnic councils, and, even worse, it introduces a very serious precedent for the control of tertiary institutions. Academic freedom is one principle that is very important to every tertiary institution. To have the Minister, who has no understanding of the importance and the merit of academic freedom, as the person who will determine who runs the polytechs is enough to give everybody\u2014I was going to use an inappropriate word\u2014a fright when they think about the purpose of a polytechnic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis bill is dangerous. It is limited, and, although we might wish to say some good things later about the tertiary high school, it is apposite that this particular bill is being brought in this week, when we have had the repeated theme of not listening to the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u002290b4dfeef8b74800aacf7c6c0b3fa07c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290b4dfeef8b74800aacf7c6c0b3fa07c\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a brief call in support of the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill. I think the Minister has articulated very clearly what needs to be done, and it is a pleasure to speak in support of the bill. The tone is set at the top of any organisation, and it was obvious as the previous speaker sat down that members opposite are in total denial of just how poorly polytechnics have performed under the Labour Government of the past 9 years. Close to half a billion dollars have gone down the gurgler, and there is now a big disparity between polytechs achieving well and poorly achieving polytechs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EIt is essential that we give some certainty to those people who are prepared to invest in education. Opposition to this bill is nothing more than socialistic adhockery\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9cba111b3d043649f63aed9eefe5da9\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: There go the international students. You are damaging our reputation here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f59de860c9614e18af43a8f7a04795a5\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING\u003C/span\u003E: That member should reflect on what she is saying. Obviously, she has been in the House for only 5 minutes. She is a very lightweight member who has been here a very short time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EI draw the Opposition\u2019s attention to the wonderful part in the bill that enables young students to attend a tertiary high school at the Manukau Institute of Technology. What a wonderful opportunity! I believe that this bill will start us onward and upward, and that we will see a truly robust, high-quality, First World - economy education system. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022752c8b6021f3473f867e8b1ec86f8a3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022752c8b6021f3473f867e8b1ec86f8a3b\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill. This bill represents an attempt by the Government to take over the governance of New Zealand\u2019s polytechnics. The Minister for Tertiary Education will be allowed to appoint half of a radically reduced board of eight members. All the power is in the hands of the Minister. The Government\u2019s argument is that this will allow it to intervene more easily when polytechnics have financial or educational issues. The reality is that the Government will be intervening in all polytechnics, not just those in trouble. This intervention will come at the expense of community representation. Currently, polytechnic councils operate with representatives from a wide variety of groups, including academic staff, general staff, students, and employee and employer representatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebe737048f494ce0855d8b2ef0b903a0\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: Speak from the heart, don\u2019t read it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fd06273a4aa459dbd674c9fa80b59f4\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps Colin King, the member who spoke before me, should have written his speech, and then he would have spoken for more than 30 seconds. The current arrangement allows a wide range of valuable perspectives to contribute to the running of each polytechnic. The Government\u2019s proposals will strip councils of this representation, leaving only the Minister\u2019s representatives, the chief executive officer, a member of the academic staff, a student representative, and one community representative. The Government argues that this will improve the efficiency of the boards. But what about the legitimacy of such a board when important stakeholders in the polytechnics are being denied adequate representation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EPolytechnics are vitally important for much of regional New Zealand. Members on this side of the House recognise that, but members on the other side, unfortunately, under the leadership of that Minister, do not recognise it at all. Polytechnics provide the skills and training that regional economies need. They also ensure that young people in regional New Zealand who want training qualifications are not all forced to go to the main centres. Polytechnics have become an essential part of communities all over New Zealand. These same communities now find that the Government is refusing them input into the governance of these institutions. It is the kind of Minister-knows-best attitude that these communities do not need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EMany of New Zealand\u2019s polytechnics serve several communities\u2014like the Nelson Marlborough Institute of Technology and the Waikato Institute of Technology\u2014but these institutions\u2019 community representation under National\u2019s proposal is woefully inadequate. Are these communities expected to fight over a single place on a council so that they can have a say in its governance? That is unacceptable. It shows the disconnection between the National Government and New Zealand\u2019s regional communities. These communities want leadership, not micro-management from the Minister\u2014also known as nanny State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIn the explanatory note of this bill the Government notes that it is desirable in principle that the polytechnic councils should have M\u0101ori representation. It also notes that the councils should reflect the ethnic and socio-economic diversity of the communities that the polytechnics serve. These are worthy points that Labour agrees with. However, the bill makes no provision for any of this. This is essentially a case of the Government saying that it would be nice if we had M\u0101ori representation, while deliberately not making any effort to ensure that this happens. This kind of attitude to M\u0101ori representation is obviously not new to the National Government, as we have seen with its refusal to allow M\u0101ori representation on the super-city council. It continues with that pattern in this bill. Is the National Government fulfilling its obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi? Is it responding to the spirit of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples? I do not think so. By denying M\u0101ori representation on the super-city council, and now on the councils of polytechnics nationwide, it is clearly not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThese changes to representation on polytechnic councils are disturbing. What will be in the Minister\u2019s sights next? Will the boards of universities and w\u0101nanga soon be stripped of stakeholder representation and stacked with the Minister\u2019s appointees? With this bill, the Minister is wresting control of the governance of polytechnics from New Zealand communities. Why? It is true that some polytechnics have had financial or educational issues in the past, but there are many reasons for this. The fact that the National Government, instead of investigating the reasons why some polytechs have run into difficulty, is choosing to gain greater control over their boards suggests a hidden motive. The bill represents the corporatisation of our nation\u2019s polytechnics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis bill also includes a proposal to establish the Manukau Institute of Technology as a tertiary education high school. This is a proposal that Labour supports, as it will support year 11 to year 13 students who would otherwise leave school without gaining qualifications. Despite this, the bill as proposed would do more harm than good to tertiary education in New Zealand. We will not take the good with the bad if it means that communities are sacrificing their say in the running of these institutions, if it means that M\u0101ori and other ethnic groups are denied representation, and if it means the corporatisation of these valuable community assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis bill would deny communities representation on the boards of institutions that should be serving their needs. It would add insult to injury to M\u0101ori, who are already denied representation on the super-city council. It would mean that the Minister\u2019s appointees would make up half of every polytechnic board, giving the Government enormous power over the governance and direction of these institutions. New Zealand polytechnics should work to support their communities, providing the skills and training that are required. A diverse range of representatives from communities, unions, and employers is necessary so that this aim is achieved. This bill would ensure that these groups do not receive adequate representation and that this aim is not achieved. Labour cannot and will not support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u00220d625144bf6c4620ac37e0ecad91aaf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d625144bf6c4620ac37e0ecad91aaf6\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Tertiary education is part of the wide-ranging educational opportunities that help all New Zealanders fulfil their potential and deepen their understanding of the world we inhabit. The Green Party wants an education sector that builds a foundation of wisdom in this country and helps us to develop as a sustainable nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Green Party wants a tertiary education sector that is well resourced, vibrant, innovative, and responsive to the needs of students and our society. We want a tertiary education sector that is preparing and prepared for the challenges of the 21st century. To this end, we must have a sector that is well resourced to meet the diverse needs of a diverse community. We need to have community sector commitment to these institutions, where the institution and its community work together to fulfil both local and national needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn this respect polytechs have a great advantage, because polytechs incorporate a broader range of educational levels. They can readily move people along the educational pathway, especially those who were missed out in the schooling system. Those people can be moved along to great educational success. Because of the stepped programme option, polytechs are so much more accessible to many in our community, and because polytechs deal with both research and the practical application of that research they are flexible and able to meet the quickly changing circumstances of the community, of our ecology, and of our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is always very pleased to see legislation that will assist polytechs to achieve even more. What a shame that, instead, we have been dealt this garbage from the Minister for Tertiary Education! This legislation is a gross waste of our time here in Parliament tonight. It shows a complete misunderstanding of\u2014and, really, a contempt for\u2014those institutions, which have proved to be so valuable and worthwhile to our communities across the sector. We have a piece of garbage to debate tonight, presented to the House by Anne Tolley. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe asserted aims of this bill are to improve the governance capability of polytech councils and allow the Crown to intervene more effectively in their performance. Well, it certainly does that. It certainly provides for the highest possible level of intervention by the State in these institutions, which provide such a great service to our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe bill achieves this intervention by slashing the number of community representatives on the councils. I have heard the comments of my colleagues in the Labour Party, and I agree wholeheartedly with their concerns. The bill is slashing the number of community representatives allowed on the councils. It gives the chief executive of the Tertiary Education Commission the power to intervene. It gives the Minister extraordinary powers to intervene in the management and governance of polytechs. It allows the Minister to have a say over who is on the council and even to say who the chair and deputy chair of the council should be. That is an unprecedented level of intervention in polytechnics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe bill also allows for an amalgamated council to manage multiple institutions, which is something we are seeing in the compulsory schooling sector, as well. The bill will sever the incredibly important governance links between polytech institutions and the communities they belong to and serve. The Government claims that poor governance poses a risk to the Crown, but there is no evidence whatsoever that that is a serious risk. Even if there were a case to answer, the bill is very clearly heavy-handed State interference to fix what is likely to be a non-existent problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWe have spent many years listening to National members blather on about nanny State interference. The bill is an absolute classic example of excessive State interference in educational institutions that by and large are doing an excellent job serving the communities they are designed to serve. The polytechnic councils are committed to community engagement, but the Government has decided that that is not good enough. The Government does not want community engagement; it wants absolute control over these institutions. The legislation is an attempt to create that situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe result of this bill will be that polytechs will be under the strict control of ministerially appointed business people, and Anne Tolley, who presented this garbage to the House, will be the person who appoints those business people. Community and academic interests on the councils will be sidelined by the design of the bill, and communities will no longer have the high-quality relationships with council boards that they currently have. That will mean that polytechs will not be able to be as responsive to the needs of their communities as they have been. It means that polytechs will not have the freedom to innovate as they currently do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn short, the bill imposes Government and corporate control over the polytechs, just as National is doing, as I said earlier, to schools, with education legislation that is currently before the Education and Science Committee. There is provision in that legislation for corporate management of school boards and the ability for one corporate-managed school board to be able to manage a variety of different schools. We talked about that issue some time at the end of last year and about whether it is one of the steps towards the privatisation of the public school system. The bill is just another obvious example of the corporatisation by the National Government of polytechnics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Green Party values the concept of an institution that elevates trades and vocational education and bridges the gap between the practical needs of a trade and the opportunity for research and advanced skills. Technological changes and the developing needs of our society are driving that change, so we must have a tertiary sector that is able to readily meet those opportunities. That is especially important when we consider the nature of the global environment and the changes in it, particularly the increasing recognition of peak oil and the need for energy alternatives, the impact of climate change on all aspects of our society, and the need to be prepared for the changes that are inevitably coming our way. The Government is driving for a tertiary polytechnic sector built on the principles of State control and a 19th century level of investment. The Green Party opposes this garbage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022db1439861d8544ca9a147979efcad4ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db1439861d8544ca9a147979efcad4ae\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. When we talk about representation I am reminded of a comment from a couple in New Plymouth yesterday. They were really upset with the decision to deny the M\u0101ori seats in Auckland and said: \u201CIn this case democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner.\u201D They were a couple who came here 18 years ago and thought Aotearoa was a wonderful place because of the relationship between M\u0101ori and European as Treaty partners. They wanted to help correct the injustice of denying the M\u0101ori seats in Auckland, because in their view we will all be poorer if this issue is not resolved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ESome MPs will recall an event at Te Papa about a month ago called Rangatahi Represent, which featured artists like Dam Native, Upper Hutt Posse, and King Kapisi, who are all relations of Tau Henare. The event was a celebration of youth culture, which this Parliament could take a lesson from, and a statement of their ability to represent their own opinions, speak for themselves, and stand up for themselves. All MPs will know how well the M\u0101ori Party has grown into its role of representing M\u0101ori opinion and standing up for the rights of M\u0101ori as the first peoples of this land and as the partner to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the constitutional foundation of Aotearoa. Sometimes the Government gets the representation thing right, like with the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Act, which requires the Minister of Health to ensure that M\u0101ori membership of the board is proportional to the number of M\u0101ori in the region, and also to ensure that at least two M\u0101ori are on the board. But the latest debacle around the M\u0101ori seats in Auckland shows very clearly how even when a royal commission recommends M\u0101ori seats, when all M\u0101ori submissions support M\u0101ori seats, when 80 percent of non-M\u0101ori submissions support M\u0101ori seats, when the majority of Auckland\u2019s councils support M\u0101ori seats, and when most of the five major parties in Parliament support M\u0101ori seats, the Government can still conspire to make a fool of itself by pandering to the whims of a party that is polling below the margin of error, for God\u2019s sake. Now it appears that another crisis is looming in the way polytechnic councils are appointed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party has always supported strong M\u0101ori representation, because of the value we place on the Treaty partnership and on honouring that partnership by both M\u0101ori and the Crown. Indeed, in the National Party and M\u0101ori Party agreement there is a statement of faith in the opening paragraph that is supposed to say it all: \u201CBoth the National Party and the M\u0101ori Party will act in accordance with Te Tiriti o Waitangi,\u201D. We take that statement of faith seriously because it acknowledges the Treaty partnership as the very basis of the Crown\u2019s relationship with M\u0101ori, and we expect the Government to do its best to uphold the Treaty. So when the chair of Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, Naida Glavish, says of the Government\u2019s plans to dump the M\u0101ori seats that \u201Ccontinuing to treat Maori as \u2018mere stakeholders\u2019 will maintain the status quo of poorly managed natural resources, ineffective consultation and ongoing inefficiency in decision making and planning for the city.\u201D, it is clear for everyone to see how much the Treaty is not a priority for either the Government or local government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EAlthough that debate is not over yet, by any means, the House is already witnessing another massive hit on the Treaty with the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill, which will cut the number of community members to one. The Government reckons it is to ensure that polytechnics have strong governance, but that is bullshit, of course, and suggests that communities do not have the smarts to pick the right kinds of people. Down in Gisborne, for example, the Tair\u0101whiti Polytechnic Council currently has four community places, which are held by Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Porou, Te R\u016Bnanga o Turanganui-a-Kiwa, the Wairoa Waikaremoana Maori Trust Board, and the M\u0101ori Women\u2019s Welfare League. Given the breadth of participation from those various tribal areas, cutting the community seats to one will enhance neither the representation nor the quality of skills that can be brought to the table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EMost polytechnic councils already have M\u0101ori representation, and some have dedicated mana whenua seats, such as Tair\u0101whiti Polytechnic, Whitireia Community Polytechnic, and Waiariki Institute of Technology, but not Northland Polytechnic. Those initiatives should be lauded, not discarded, because they show the value of the relationships between polytechs\u2014and politics\u2014and the communities they serve, and the institutional success that flows from those relationships. Just a couple of days ago Dennis Sharman, spokesman for the national body for councils of institutes of technology and polytechs, said: \u201CThe performance and value of polytechnics depend strongly on the professional and vocational education they provide for communities throughout New Zealand. Community interests must therefore feature strongly in the governance processes for polytechnics\u201D. That is from the people most affected by this proposal, yet here we are planning to give that community input the chop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIf that community viewpoint, including mana whenua, is removed, governance will become simply an extension of central government rather than an exercise in decentralisation and community ownership. Central government will be trying to do for the regions what the regions have been doing well for themselves for decades; the nanny State that National so reviled over the last 3 years will be getting steroids when National says it should be getting laxatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWhen the Prime Minister says that he wants to move forward to bring the nation into the future together, he needs to understand that respectful mana whenua must be part of the move, that cutting back on M\u0101ori representation is a backward step, that eroding the significance and the support of communities for polytechnics is a sign of danger to positive community development, and that the M\u0101ori Party will never agree to any moves that threaten the Treaty as the basis of M\u0101ori representation to organisations and authorities in Aotearoa. On that basis, the M\u0101ori Party will be opposing this bill. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00224c0565ae8c0d48b88a27242cbb8fc359\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c0565ae8c0d48b88a27242cbb8fc359\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to stand this evening to support the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill in its first reading and the strong Minister Anne Tolley, who demands excellence. One of the reasons New Zealanders voted for National in November last year was our stand for excellence in education. We will not hold back. We are unwilling to tolerate mediocrity. One of the things we want to ensure is that New Zealand has a great future because of education. We will not sit back and tolerate anything else, so I applaud the Minister for her leadership in taking hold of the polytechnic sector and being willing to shake it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn terms of the polytechs, we will not listen to the Opposition\u2019s scaremongering or its use of its socialist adhocracy to try to scare New Zealanders into believing that we are up to something different. All we want to do is make sure that the leadership and governance of the polytechs are strong, that the polytechs are future-focused, and that they are leading New Zealand in the direction we want it to go in. We need strong institutions that are financially sound and responsive to the needs of their communities and economies. That includes meeting the changing needs of employers, the voluntary sector, communities, iwi, and others who need high-quality vocational education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe bill proposes that polytech councils are reduced in members from 20 to eight. Let us have a conversation about quality. It is not about the number of council members; it is about the quality of those who are on the council and who are leading their institutions forward to ensure that the young people in their communities get the education they deserve. That is what this Government is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe bill will also allow the Crown to respond more effectively when institutions are possibly at risk of not delivering the educational outcomes they need or are financially in trouble. It allows for more flexible interventions so that those institutions can be better supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EEducation is vital to our success as a country, and we will not sit back and ignore that fact. The bill is about improving, growing, extending, and, more important, delivering. That is what this Government is doing. We stand for excellence, and we will not tolerate mediocrity. I am delighted to support the first reading of the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u00226d2e447fc6164e81a1afc4e6eeb5b5df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d2e447fc6164e81a1afc4e6eeb5b5df\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to rise tonight in opposition to the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill. I think I will be able to make a worthwhile contribution to the debate, and perhaps a unique contribution, because I may be the only member of the House who has actually been a member of a polytechnic council. I will speak from that experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EFirst, I want to note the contribution from Colin King, the member for Kaik\u014Dura, who managed to fill only 2 minutes of his speaking slot. He should be standing in opposition to this bill, because he represents a community that will lose its representation on the Nelson Marlborough Institute of Technology council under the arrangements introduced by the Minister for Tertiary Education tonight. His community will hold him to account for that decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI joined the Nelson Polytechnic council\u2014which later became the Nelson Marlborough Institute of Technology council\u2014more than 10 years ago, before the previous Labour Government came to office. So for Mr King to suggest that this issue is a legacy of Labour maladministration ignores the cyclical problems that are very much there in the polytech sector. At the first council meeting I attended, in February 1999, we inherited a $1.7 million deficit. Who was in Government at that time? National. What was the reason for that deficit? It was largely because the Asian financial crisis had happened, and, like most polytechnics\u2014they are always strapped for cash\u2014that polytechnic had embarked upon recruitment of Asian students to try to fill its numbers and bolster its budget. With the downturn in student numbers, the polytechnic went into the red. I was one of the council members who tried to ensure that it got back some form of viability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe council had about 12 members. It included two iwi representatives, later becoming three, who were important, helpful, worthwhile members of that council. They contributed fully. That community has a big M\u0101ori population. A large percentage of the students\u2014about 2,000 equivalent full-time students\u2014were M\u0101ori, and the council was proud to have M\u0101ori membership on it. That situation will go under this legislation, and that is utterly reprehensible. I hope Tau Henare will take a call to speak in the way that he has spoken so boldly on the same issue affecting the Auckland super-city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EA representative of the trade unions was on the council, and that was very useful because the chief executive was able to talk to the unions and negotiate pay rises. A Nelson-Marlborough representative of the Employers Federation was also on the council. So it was a balanced council and it was supported by the community. The reason we were able to turn round that deficit of $1.7 million and get that polytechnic back on its feet was that the council was representative of the community it served.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf85b4bc483347368c562c66ee0553e1\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: Is that member sure that is true?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275d849f70dad45849f824dd9899264ca\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. But polytechnics, like many other businesses\u2014if one wants to describe a polytech as a business\u2014are cyclical. They are very finely tuned; they are never much in the black. They often teeter towards the red, because many of them are regional institutions, like the Nelson Marlborough Institute of Technology, of which I have spoken. If there is a drop in student numbers in a major course\u2014like nursing\u2014for cyclical or other reasons, polytechs can be pushed into the red and into financial loss. There are ways to combat that, and council membership is really important in building an institution and improving its viability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EFor instance, in the case of the Nelson Marlborough Institute of Technology, we looked at the ground training wing, a huge, air force - owned facility on the perimeter of Blenheim, in Marlborough. It was built during the time of the former National Government. It had spare capacity, and that facility is now used by the Nelson Marlborough Institute of Technology to train dozens of civilian aviation engineers, and to bolster the finances of that institution. That case was put up and supported by council members, including me. Mr King represents Marlborough. He has to go back to his community and tell them that he is in favour of gutting their council\u2019s membership and leaving it with one community representative, who almost certainly will be from Nelson. He has to go back and tell his voters that that is the support he has given to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EAnother initiative was using the polytechnic site in Blenheim, which had spare capacity, to establish the Marlborough Wine Research Centre\u2014a national wine centre of excellence\u2014on the campus in Budge Street. That centre has received $10 million of research funding. It is adding value to the wine industry. Marlborough is the centre of the nation\u2019s wine industry. That centre is another example of a strongly supported initiative driven in part by the community council membership that the Minister now wants to gut with the bill before us tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EA final endeavour that was undertaken with strong council and community-driven support was the fostering of aquaculture training in Nelson-Marlborough. The mussel industry is based in Nelson-Marlborough, and the polytechnic established training that was driven and supported by the council membership, which included\u2014at times\u2014representatives of Marlborough who had a background in the mussel industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI ask Mr King who will stand up for Marlborough in the Nelson Marlborough Institute of Technology when it is brought back to one community representative, and when all iwi representation is taken away. He will have some fun in terms of iwi representation; he has eight iwi across Nelson-Marlborough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI conclude by commenting on some of the introductory remarks from the Minister about how this bill supposedly will introduce financial viability in the polytechnic sector, and show how the Government is committed to polytechnics. What rubbish! We have a representative model in place, which helps and strengthens those institutions, and she will take the axe to that membership so that she can command those institutions to do what she wishes. It is not as if there is not strong State sector influence in the polytechnics. The Tertiary Education Commission is in daily contact with the polytechnics. It monitors their finances. It is able to intervene when the polytechnics get into trouble, to appoint Crown monitors, and to put people on to the councils to steer them out of what are quite regular occurrences, because the polytechnics have long been underfunded. They are the poor cousin of the tertiary sector\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc246893a19d4f138073871f26fc698a\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, more money will make it right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8133c2dbd5a40cd8bfde542877c6830\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the Minister that she is talking about supposedly being a Government that has a commitment to industry and training, and here she is saying that she will take an axe to the representative model that is in place. What a disgrace! Here we have community-driven organisations represented by maybe 10 or a dozen people drawn from all sectors, and they cost virtually nothing. The turnover for the polytechnic in my electorate of Christchurch Central, the Christchurch Polytechnic Institute of Technology, is about $80 million. The cost of the governance by its council is about $100,000. The Government will gut the membership of those councils so that it can put in place its agenda. That is wholly inappropriate and wholly contrary to what the Government should be doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022a501f4bafa374353a99299a277a5109d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a501f4bafa374353a99299a277a5109d\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E The Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill will empower the \u201Cchief executive of the Tertiary Education Commission to require a polytechnic council to prepare and give to him or her a draft performance improvement plan \u2026\u201D. The chief executive will be using this provision only if \u201Che or she believes on reasonable grounds that a polytechnic, or the educational performance of the students at a polytechnic, may be at risk.\u201D I suggest to members opposite that that is a pretty important provision and that it is sound management practice. It is worrying, to say the least, that Opposition members do not recognise the need for improvements in existing governance arrangements for a significant number of polytechnics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI listened carefully earlier as the Hon Maryan Street drew attention to the outstanding Waikato Institute of Technology, which has two campuses in my electorate. I am very proud to be the parliamentary representative for Wintec\u2019s electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EMs Street quoted very selectively from some reported comments of Gordon Chesterman, the Wintec chairman and a Hamilton City councillor. He has some concerns, but he has also expressed many constructive thoughts on the issue of polytechnic governance. Let me fill in some gaps in respect of the press report the member referred to. Mr Chesterman noted that \u201CHere at Wintec we recognised the need for change about four years ago. \u2026 It\u2019s worked incredibly well for us and we now have a highly skilled and successful council.\u201D As a result Wintec, which previously had 20 councillors, is now down to 13 in a \u201Clean, mean organisation.\u201D Mr Chesterman\u2019s main concern is with the funding structure. He says it is clearly wrong. The Wintec council inherited the situation from the previous Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAlthough I have no doubt that the Wintec council will be making submissions on the bill\u2014and I encourage it to do so in order to contribute to the Act achieving its purpose, and to secure the support and confidence of quality providers throughout the country\u2014nevertheless there is much in the bill that we can be positive about and that will be good for the polytechnics of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe should all want quality; we all need quality management. I encourage members to look constructively at the bill and work towards that end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022db1512b83eb64ae9b5efca1fdc879f1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db1512b83eb64ae9b5efca1fdc879f1e\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E It has been a bad week for democracy. It has been a bad week for the National Government, because it has decided this week that it will not listen to the people of New Zealand. It will not listen to the thousands of people who marched down the streets of Auckland calling for M\u0101ori representation on the Auckland Council. It does not want to listen to the communities that surround the polytechs in New Zealand. That is what the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill is about. To make it worse, we will legislate in this House to not listen to the very communities that are served by our polytechnics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBeyond that, this bill represents one of the most audacious power grabs in tertiary education that we have ever seen. The Minister for Tertiary Education, Anne Tolley, will have the right to appoint half of each polytechnic\u2019s council of eight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d83f7b86e2ee4d44ae2dbd2844716334\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229afe1594f2f44fd7a70b1f6e7a0c6da4\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Half of the council of eight\u2014four people. The Minister for Tertiary Education will have the right to appoint the chair and the deputy chair. This is a power grab of the most unbelievable sort from this Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at the effect of reducing the size of polytechnic councils. Who will be taken out of the councils under this proposal? We will see M\u0101ori taken off the councils. For the second time this week, we are seeing M\u0101ori being told that their voice is not required at the table, that their voice is not required to be there to show us how these institutions should be run. I too have served on a tertiary council, as Mr Burns has, and as my colleague Mr Hipkins has as well, and tertiary councils benefit from the diversity of the people on them. Those councils also benefit from representation from unions and employers. I particularly note that this bill means that employer representatives will be taken off the polytech councils. National is taking away the very people who are concerned about the graduates who come out of polytech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe previous Labour Government put in place its tertiary reforms to ensure that the polytechs were able to support regional economics. Who are the people in the region who understand those economies? They are the representatives of employers and the representatives of workers. They are the people who are being taken out of this proposal. National is saying it does not want to listen to those people or know about their views. National is not concerned about what they might think about what is important in their regional economy. That is gone because that party on the other side of the House does not care about the views of other people. Its members do not want to listen. They know best, they know what is right for the regions, and they will put it in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to refer to the words of the Universal College of Learning Chief Executive, Paul McElroy. He was quoted in the Manawatu Standard as saying this: \u201CPolytechnics are about the students and the communities they serve. I think they need to be a strong voice on the council. If the majority of the council is controlled by a ministry in Wellington, you are not allowing that local voice to come to the forefront.\u201D That is what Mrs Tolley is doing tonight. She is trying to take control of these polytech councils, push out the regions, push out the community, and bring back the power to her. Mr McElroy went on to say \u201CUCOL\u2019s board has 14 members, including representatives from campuses at Palmerston North, Whanganui and Masterton, publicly elected members, iwi, union and employer representatives.\u201D Under this model Mrs Tolley is saying that one person will be able to represent the communities of Palmerston North, Wanganui, and Masterton\u2014one person will be able to represent them. Mrs Tolley will appoint the other four, and goodness knows who those people will be. Polytechs are expected to be able to represent a region, in this case a region of three cities: Palmerston North, Wanganui, and Masterton. One person will not be able to do that. Mr McElroy went on to say that \u201CNew Zealand is a democracy. It\u2019s about people who are consuming government services actually having a say over them, particularly in education. We don\u2019t want a situation where the Government writes the textbooks that is not acceptable in tertiary education.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022439d08cb7f5d44e29aea0d1a0478a33a\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t want Anne Tolley writing a textbook!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de7b82ced7744366a9009267a820e832\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EInterestingly, the Manawatu Standard went on to say this, \u201CMrs Tolley\u2019s office said she did not have time to answer the Manawatu Standard\u2019s questions yesterday.\u201D So not only is Mrs Tolley not listening to the regions, not listening to the communities that polytechnics serve, but she does not even want to respond to the media when they want to know about the issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe have to question what the Minister is trying to do with this bill and what the reason is behind the power grab. It is a true power grab, because not only is it about the appointment of people to polytech councils but also it is about the removal of people from polytech councils. The Minister now has enormous power not only to appoint those people, appoint the chair, and appoint the deputy chair, but also to remove them for reasons of, \u201Cjust cause\u201D, which includes a number of things. The Minister might decide to dismiss people from the council for any reason. This is a giant power grab. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIs this the best that National can come up with when it comes to polytechnics at the moment? It is the best that it can come up with\u2014gutting community representation. Polytechnics are bursting at the seams at the moment because people are desperate to increase their skills. The National Government\u2019s response to that was to bring forward to this House a bill to gut the polytechnic councils. There is nothing in it about how the Government will enable more participation. There is nothing about how it will respond to the recession by getting people into polytechnics, getting people to upskill and retrain\u2014there is nothing about that whatsoever. A total of 328 people have been turned away from the Western Institute of Technology in New Plymouth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EA total of 328 people have been turned away, because this Government is not prepared to look at what is really happening in the regions, to support the polytechnics, and to support them to bring people to their regions. The only response from this Government is to bring forward an anti-democratic bill, a bill that shows that the Government is not listening. It does not want to hear the views from the regions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut what is Mrs Tolley\u2019s agenda with this bill? Why would we do this? Why would we take $60 million out of the polytech sector? There have been protests all around the country from polytechnic students and staff, and the response from Mrs Tolley has been to take away community representation. The agenda here is clear: it is an agenda of control over polytechnics, and it is an agenda where investment in polytechnics will be limited. The opportunities to respond to regional needs will be limited, as the voice of the representatives of those regional needs will be taken out of the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow is the time to invest in polytechs, I say to Mrs Tolley. Now is the time to put money in and to support people to retrain. Now is the time to listen to the community. Now is not the time to sit there and say: \u201CWe do not want to hear from the regions. We do not want to hear from the community.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut there is something very interesting and useful in this bill. It is the creation of the tertiary education high school at the Manukau Institute of Technology. It is a 4-year course for students starting from year 11. Students who are unlikely to succeed in a conventional education setting will be given an opportunity to try something different. For that, I do commend the Government. It is an excellent idea. It is something that was discussed by Labour. It is a trial. It might not work. But it is worth a go, to ensure that people can stay in training and can achieve their potential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIf only the rest of the bill were focused in such a way. If only the rest of the bill actually focused on trying things out, on getting people into polytechnics. But the lack of vision from this Government is astounding. We have been here before. In the 1990s the National Government tried to change the way that people were represented on tertiary councils. In fact, my colleague Mr Hipkins was arrested on the forecourt of Parliament on that very issue. I think he will have his retribution soon. We have been here before, in the 1990s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe know that polytechnics and tertiary institutions operate best when they reflect the communities around them, when regional needs are represented at the council table. But once again this week we see that the National Government has no interest in listening to people and no interest in hearing alternative views. This bill is an outrageous shame. It is something that the National Government should be ashamed of, coming hard on the heels of the Government saying it will not listen to M\u0101ori on the issue of the Auckland Council. The National representatives should hang their heads in shame. Polytechnics deserve good, strong, community-driven councils. What we see today is the Minister for Tertiary Education controlling who is on those councils, and how to take people off those councils. That is anti-democratic and it is bad for education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u00220e2330edcdaf4cba88053e729ee2f6ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e2330edcdaf4cba88053e729ee2f6ea\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I was not intending to speak on this bill, the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill, but I feel I must respond to the comments made by the previous speaker, Mr Robertson. This should be a relatively non-controversial bill. Under the provisions of this bill, the size of polytechnic councils will be reduced to eight members. Currently, the number of members range from 12 to 20. The bill also provides for the Minister for Tertiary Education to appoint 50 percent of the members. I do not intend to go on in a great deal of detail in respect of the provisions of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257d6f68d412041bbab7b4191fbacb9f5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I think I know what he\u2019s going to talk about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b3480f3b54d48cb887530c6c88d84f5\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Robertson started his speech by saying this has been a very bad week for democracy. I am very pleased Mr Robertson said that, because he has it within his power to do something about it. He and his colleagues have it within their power to do something about it. He talked about the Government not listening in respect of the M\u0101ori seats. But most people in this Chamber this week have not reflected on the fact that 1.5 million people voted No in the referendum; 1.5 million people said they do not want it to be a criminal offence to lightly smack a child.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bc8377921c04156b9a61227c1cef7f8\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I thought we were discussing the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022356d84fe16c24086acd375f1d0ca27b5\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate is generally a broad one, and I think the member is traversing material that has already been brought up by members of his own party. I ask the member to continue, but I just remind him that this is a bill about polytechnics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f767749c1c204ebbb8752fc3df82c6d3\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not intend to talk for much longer, but I was very interested to listen to Mr Burns\u2019 comments and to hear him talk about his experience as a member of a polytechnic council. He said he is probably the only person in this Chamber who has been a member of a polytechnic council. I can say to Mr Burns that I have lectured at a polytech. I lectured in accounting some 25 years ago. If Mr Burns wants me to talk in some detail about my experience as a lecturer at a polytech, in the same way as he spoke about his experience as a councillor, I will be happy to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003ELet me just sum up my comments in this way. The Prime Minister has given a response this afternoon to my member\u2019s bill, the Crimes (Reasonable Parental Control and Correction) Amendment Bill. He said that the National Government is not prepared to support it at its first reading. I put the focus back on the Labour members. I say to them, to Mr Robertson and his colleagues, that they can support this bill at its first reading. They can represent the 87 percent who voted No in the referendum. I ask them to reflect on the embarrassment that that would cause to the National Government if Labour members were to support this bill. Mr Robertson said that it has been a very bad week for democracy, but he and his colleagues will have a chance to do something about that. If he wants to have the issues associated with this referendum aired before a select committee, by way of public discussion, the onus is on that member and his colleagues to support it. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccde43bc28844d8c9461133424ce686b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccde43bc28844d8c9461133424ce686b\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to have the opportunity to bring to a close the first reading debate on the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill. I have only one comment to make, and it is that once again the Labour Party does not get it. Once again, the Labour Party does not get it. Its speakers have demonstrated tonight, in this debate, that they do not begin to understand the genuine nature of governance and the role that governance will play in ensuring that our polytechs meet the needs of the communities in which they are located, the needs of the local economies, and the needs of the national economy. That is what the Labour Party does not understand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003ECurrently, the emphasis for representation on the councils is literally that\u2014representation. This bill shifts the emphasis away from straight representation to effective governance and governance skills. It will do that by significantly cutting and streamlining the size of the councils. It is well known that it has been found difficult to identify suitably qualified candidates who are willing to sit on councils. Why? Because the perception is out there, and it is a correct one, that in too many cases the councils are considered unyielding, inefficient, and underskilled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EThis is a very good bill. It will bring very much needed change to the sharp edge of polytech governance. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ab3aa2ba118043c98ddcbce657f95e68\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Education (Polytechnics) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00226bf5ce952ab44d178d0b583ab3ae4734\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bf5ce952ab44d178d0b583ab3ae4734\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education and Science Committee consider the bill, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 13 November 2009, and that the committee have the authority to meet at any time during a sitting of the House (except during oral questions), and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187, and 190(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ad06636e6c3147f299c6dbbe46d254e4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 8; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224bd22db098394f0b8970e86514208e8f\u0022\u003ETaxation (International Taxation, Life Insurance, and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fda0de124d8f4924a6333423466887db\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b16cccf2e334116af1f612e812b77e8\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Income Tax Act 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022d61eb688b7644f20b43714ad0157de1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d61eb688b7644f20b43714ad0157de1c\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise at last as the Taxation (International Taxation, Life Insurance, and Remedial Matters) Bill comes to the Committee stage. It is normal and courteous, but right also, as chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, through which this bill passed, that I acknowledge and thank all those who have assisted in getting the bill to this point. I thank mainly my colleagues on the committee. Across the committee there was a very good process and there were many different points of view. New understandings of the issues in this somewhat massive bill were garnered by members on our committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI need to acknowledge our independent advisers, with whom we started a new angle, in that we brought in an independent drafting adviser. A mere look at this bill will probably give members reason why we needed to do that. I also thank our official advisers, and I acknowledge and thank the submitters who submitted in writing, who presented before us, and who engaged with officials and ministries throughout this Parliament, and also in the last Parliament as well. We remember that this bill first arrived in the House in, I think, July 2008. I also acknowledge that large parts of the original bill were carved out and formed part of the Taxation (Business Tax Measures) Bill we put through in January and February this year. Again, I acknowledge members on all sides of the Chamber for assisting us with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI will give a challenge to Hansard, if I can, and I would like to have an audible sigh\u2014aah\u2014at the thought of getting the bill to this point. That is a challenge; I would like to see that one. The bill comprises 431 clauses in Part 1\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0274611cc174ee6a39734c3241c2d36\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Read them out!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b0f6e8dcdd64d9f9fdea03eb618eb90\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Do my colleagues want me to read it? I tell them that I have actually been reading it for the last 6 months. Believe me, if any members have trouble sleeping, I can pull out some clauses and parts that may be of interest to some of them. But I say seriously that very, very serious matters are addressed in this bill. The bill is quite fundamental and there is a lot of strength in it, which I think we will see in its passage through the Committee stage. I think the bill has six or seven parts and, as I noted before, the bill was introduced in the last Parliament under the previous Government. Like quite a few bills that we have picked up, it has been added to and improved on, and perhaps had some value added, but it has had input from all parties to get it to the point where we are now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI will talk to some of the specific clauses later in the Committee stage. In this tome of a bill there are 668 pages before we get to Part 2. There are many quite fundamental changes just in Part 1, including the underlined changes to the Income Tax Act, and to the Climate Change Response Act in changes to the GST treatment of emissions trading units or alternative units. There are Government funding changes to film and television, to research and development, to portfolio investment entity rules, and to International Financial Reporting Standards rules. There are interpretations, remedial changes, and some fundamental changes to the way in which life insurance is taxed, and perhaps more of a modernisation of that matter. I think that members might spend a bit of time on that particular issue; it occupied our committee for quite some time, and some of the explanations and diagrams we got from officials on the way through were very beneficial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EPart 1 also deals with payroll donation changes. That issue was one that occupied quite a bit of the select committee\u2019s time, and members will note that in the commentary the committee talks about some of the process we went through to get buy-in and acceptance of the changes and amendments brought in at that stage, to enhance the intent under the trust side of payroll provisions, and to deal with the obligations and commitments that Inland Revenue Department officials gave to us as we agreed that this part would be rolled out. There was some give and take on that matter, and some assurances around the department\u2019s systems and its education for the public, given our knowledge of the systems and availability of various avenues for information. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e71d36d6be894a089a0dfd52f2ca993c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e71d36d6be894a089a0dfd52f2ca993c\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E It is a delight to take a call in the Committee stage of the Taxation (International Taxation, Life Insurance, and Remedial Matters) Bill. I have probably taken up half of my speaking time just going through the title. As the previous speaker, Craig Foss, mentioned, the bill before us is broken into six parts, but interestingly enough the breakdown is grouped by amendments to the various Acts rather than by subject areas. Part 1 contains the bulk of the detail of the bill. Many of the substantial amendments are in this part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EMr Foss, the chairman of the all-powerful Finance and Expenditure Committee, has already alluded to the committee spending a considerable number of hours working its way through the bill, trying to make what was already comprehensive legislation as good and as comprehensive as we possibly could. I think the changes the committee has made to this part are worthwhile. We can be very proud of the work we have done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI want to take a moment to talk about the international tax rules component of the bill, because they are the centrepiece of it. I want to reflect on the need for reform in this area. Until now, New Zealand operated under a \u201Cgrey list\u201D system, whereby we identified countries whose tax system we felt was relatively comparable to ours. It effectively allowed controlled foreign companies operating in those jurisdictions to be treated as tax-neutral. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EHowever, there were three problems with that system. New Zealand was one of the few countries that worked in that way. Most countries operated a system akin to the one we are now moving to, whereby instead of having a \u201Cgrey list\u201D of approved countries and everything else, they looked at the type of income that the controlled foreign company was earning. If the controlled foreign company was earning active income in overseas jurisdictions, then that income was exempt, but passive income\u2014the likes of royalties, rents, dividends, interest, and so forth\u2014was taxed in the parent jurisdiction. So straight away New Zealand was at odds with many of our major trading partners. The problem with that was that it created an incentive for New Zealand businesses with offshore operations to move their headquarters to countries with more favourable tax rules. It is not an objective of our tax system to drive our parent companies offshore. If that is the effect, then it is something we need to address. This bill starts to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EAnother issue we had with retaining that \u201Cgrey list\u201D structure was that increasingly we were finding that our trading companies and our growth companies were not looking as much to our traditional trading parties: the motherland, the States, Australia, and the like. The growth opportunities were more and more in the non - \u201Cgrey list\u201D countries. New Zealand businesses that expanded into areas like China, South America, and the Middle East found that their compliance costs and their tax costs were substantially higher than their competitors\u2019. That put New Zealand businesses on an un-level playing field. We are not seeking, through our tax system, to put New Zealand businesses into the international market place with one hand effectively tied behind the back. So that was one of the things that we wanted to address. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe other issue\u2014in order to complete my list of the three issues we had with retaining the \u201Cgrey list\u201D structure\u2014was that the \u201Cgrey list\u201D exemptions were effectively allowing businesses to build structures that could save them domestic tax. That is not the purpose of these sorts of rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ESo we can see very clearly why the policy driver was to move away from the \u201Cgrey list\u201D structure that we had, and move to what we will now have through this \u201Clight\u201D bill, which is, as I said, a system where income is regarded as active or passive and is classed accordingly. I think it is worth mentioning that within that system we will still have an exemption for up to 5 percent of passive income. We will not require companies to overly complicate their accounting and return processes for what is effectively a de minimis proportion of their income, if it is passive income. So if 95 percent of their income is active, all the income can be taxed in the jurisdiction where it was earned. If more than 5 percent of a controlled foreign company\u2019s income is passive, it will have to be taxed in New Zealand. By doing this, we are looking at reducing the tax barriers to businesses that want to expand offshore, while minimising their compliance costs. At the same time, we are ensuring we maintain a level of protection for our domestic tax base. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI think most people would concur that those are sensible policy foundations for these changes. They certainly were not easy to make, and the Finance and Expenditure Committee had a number of concerns when we worked through them, one of which related to ease and accountability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022232458645fce44c4a18eef91a19509ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022232458645fce44c4a18eef91a19509ec\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a brief call at this point to acknowledge the work of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, in particular, in dealing with what I think is the second-largest tax bill to come to this Parliament, the Taxation (International Taxation, Life Insurance, and Remedial Matters) Bill. This is an 842-page job. It does not beat my previous effort of 3,500 pages, with the rewrite of the Income Tax Act\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260f8c83a7711422a95d01f7a0c0a9e8b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t try it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216b7446c303d48d2963d8ab926e4eba8\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but I am not attempting to do so. I acknowledge the fact that the select committee had a monstrous job in working through some very important, complex legislation in order to get it to this stage. I note that Supplementary Order Paper 34, which I have tabled, is 50-odd pages, so it is nearly a bill in itself. All those things really go to point out how complicated our tax law is, even when we seek to simplify it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI will pick up on the comments of the member who has just resumed her seat, Amy Adams, when she spoke about the international tax changes. The genesis of this legislation goes back some time. We began during the life of the previous Parliament with the release of the Business Tax Review, which initially recommended changes to the corporate tax rate, but which then initiated the wider review of our international tax regime. I am sure members will forgive me a moment of levity if I quote what the previous Minister of Finance used to say, to describe our international tax regime. He said New Zealand went where no one dared to follow. I think that that is a very accurate description. We made changes in the 1980s to move to the \u201Cgrey list\u201D, as the member made reference to, but in fact we were out of step with most of our trading partners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWe have been running a very unitary system for a long period of time, and the changes that see their completion, if you like, in terms of stage 1 in this bill arise from the fact that we needed to recognise that active/passive exemption. We needed to create the opportunity for a number of New Zealand - based businesses to try to stay located in this country, even if their manufacturing was going to take place offshore; and we needed, as part of introducing a competitive international tax regime, to streamline our processes and bring them into line with international practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200908269656d67a292c4ec7adc18c62ad569a1d000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"